Jocko Podcast 26 – with Echo Charles | Omaha Beach & Beyond | Surfing | Flanking

this is Joo podcast number 26 with Eko Charles and me Joo willink oh for a voice like thunder and a tongue to drown the throat of War when the senses are shaken and the soul is driven to Madness who can stand when The Souls of the oppressed fight in the the troubled air that rages who can stand when the Whirlwind of Fury comes from the Throne of God when the frowns of his countenance Drive the Nations together who can stand When sin claps his broad Wings Over the battle and sails rejoicing in the flood of death when souls are torn to Everlasting fire and fiends of Hell Rejoice upon the slain oh who can stand good evening Eko good evening that right there is a little exert of a poem by a guy named William Blake and it paints War as something so powerful so evil something superhuman and the full poem is really a statement against war and as it goes on and it’s not that much longer but it blames war on the politicians and on the Kings and on the Nobles and it blames war on the religious leaders but he asked that question over and over again who can stand and I can actually answer that question and I’ve seen who can stand I’ve seen people break but I have seen many brave men and women on the battle field stand stand against fear and death and stand against evil stand as Sin claps his broad Wings Over the battle and sails rejoicing in the flood of death and that’s William Blake those are his words but he’s writing that in the late 1700s and early 1800s he had no idea how bad War would get and I’m not saying war is worse in terms of individual horror but in terms of scale it can’t be denied I mean World War I and World War II the scale of horror it would be incomprehensible to a man from Blake’s time he just couldn’t understand it so let’s go to June 6th 1944 as the demon spread his wings over the beaches of Normandy and Men stood against his evil the English coxen tried to drop the ramp a couple hundred feet from the shore when the sergeant ordered take us all the way in just then machine guns opened up and bullets tore through the wooden sides of the landing craft wounding four or five men men be began screaming open the damn doors just as the ramp went down there was a pause in the incoming fire we exited fast diving into the water and holding on Sergeant Trona was lying next to me when he was shot through the wrist I crawled over to him and gave him first aid we just let the tide wash over the lower portion of our bodies using our fingernails to pull forward inch by inch to keep from drowning I looked back at our assault craft and both English Sailors were dead they were Heroes and paid the price for getting us in they risked their safety to get us closer to shore private Thomas mcarter was the first fatality in our sector his cries to me for help still haunt me weighted down and possibly wounded he frantically struggled in the water as he cried my name but I couldn’t get to him it was drilled into us that we must push forward to the objective and to let the Medics take care of the Wounded we were subjected to grazing fire from crisscrossing fire from machine guns I believed at the time that it would be better for me to push forward since Tom was quite far away these machine guns kept firing until we got to the seaw wall Tom was my friend and I should have tried to save him it took individual Riflemen using grenades satchel charges and bayonets to neutralize the almost impregnable concrete bunkers I didn’t see any Rangers until later in my opinion the Air Force and navy made it possible for us to hang on until reinforcements and more equipment arrived they also kept the Germans from mounting a armored Counterattack but you know it boiled down to the bloody foot soldier and his rifle to hold on to the real estate and that right there was Private first class Randolph a Ginman company D 116th infantry 27 years old d uh 27 years old on D-Day a mortar Gunner now we’re going to hear from private first class George a Kobe company D 116th infantry 600 yards from the shore the English coxen lost his nerve and slowed the engine this improved the Germans opportunity to hit our boat captain Schilling was looking through the vision slit looked back at the Sailor and said you’re not going to drop that ramp here technical Sergeant stinet was standing next to the captain suddenly an 88 millimeter hit the ramp directly blowing Captain Schilling blackwards its’s left eye knocking it out with John sefco Vic Crone and Eugene Adrien we finally made it to the seaw wall how I’ll never know it was the worst fire I was ever subjected to in all of my combat now we’ve got private first class Robert L sales Company B 116th infantry joined the Virginia National Guard at age 15 about 100 yards from the shore the English coxon said he couldn’t get us in any closer as the ramp lowered enemy machine guns opened up firing directly into our boat like all great leaders Captain zap was the first off the boat and the first one to get hit staff sergeant Dick Wright was second and also hit falling into the water a medic was third and I didn’t see what happened to him I was fourth I caught my heel in the ramp and fell sideways out of the path of that mg42 undoubtedly saving my life all of the men that followed were either killed by Germans or drowned no one from my craft was ever found alive the captain screamed I’m hit I tried to get to him but he was lost in the surf men were all around me in the water bleeding from wounds and screaming for help I knew the boat was the Target so I got away from it as fast as I could one of the first things I did was shed my scr300 radio and my assault jacket that radio was heavy and I suppose it is still at the bottom of the channel mortar and artillery shells were Landing all around and one hit so close that it knocked me groggy luckily a log floated by with an unexploded teller mine still attached I grabbed hold of it until my head cleared a bit I remained behind that log pushing it in front of me using it as a shield as I reached dry until I reached dry land the first person I saw on the beach that I recognized was Dick Wright he hollered over to me that he was badly hit I watched him trying to raise his arms but a sniper spotted him and shot him through the head his face fell into the sand never to move again I didn’t try to go to him because I knew he was dead while pinned down on that beach I watched incoming landing craft being shot at one of them carried the Battalion surgeon Captain Robert bwar a man I knew from my hometown of Madison Heights Virginia the doctor had flaming red hair I watched him as he disembarked the landing craft and that machine gun opened up cutting him down what I will never forget was seeing his helmet fly off his head and showing all that red hair I crawled on my belly using the dead and wounded as a shield sometime later I saw Max Smith from Shephard shepher Town West Virginia and some other Bee Company men taking shelter behind a seaw wall some of them were badly wounded I bandaged Smith’s eye that was lying out of his face I kept crawling back to the water’s edge dragging men out if they were still living I didn’t bother if they were dead I pulled quite a few to safety one of the Medics helped to give first aid and comfort to the wounded the first enemy soldier I saw was a prisoner interrogators had his had him on his knees and his hands were locked behind his head he didn’t look so tough to me but those guys up on the cliffs were plenty tough you can’t imagine IM how helpless it was to be lying on that beach and those machine guns and snipers shooting anything that moved at this point we were not sure the invasion would succeed our company was shot up so badly that there was no organization or communication from other sectors to tell us how they were doing if all the landing zones were as helpless as we were the invasion was in Jeopardy we felt helpless and alone we had many acts of heroism from B Company Men with many of them unreported Lieutenant William B Williams single-handedly with hand grenades and a rifle charged and subdued a pillbox Sergeant William Pierce and Odell padet survived the landing better than we did and were able to take a few men up to those rocks and cliffs and fight it out with the Germans it was touch and go for quite some time in our sector not until ST Low fell in July did we know for sure that the invasion was a success D-Day was indeed the longest day but there were many many long days after that day after bloody day it was jumping over those hedge RS and men getting killed we lost some very good men every single day ST Low was about 25 miles from the beach and it was liberated on July 8 18th when ST Low fell we felt confident that we were in France to stay surviving the war was another story so those were some excerpts right there from a book by John Robert Slaughter the book is called Omaha Beach beyond the Long March of Sergeant Bob Slaughter and those excerpts that I just read they weren’t Bob Slaughter they were various other people that worked with him that he went back and interviewed this is another guy born in Tennessee grew up in Rowan Oak Virginia enlisted in the Army Reserves at age 15 and as he’s given an inro to the book here this is what he says I remember buddies with whom I spent passes to London men I played cards with a couple of days before the landing who signed their autographs on my Eisenhower D-Day missive who shook hands with me on the javelin’s deck young man young men as I was all killed during the largest air Land and Sea battle ever fought many more were maimed and never seen again how could I forget this epic event even if I fail to recall the proper names and faces Memoirs are not history but history is someone’s recorded memory most of us remember Noble and heroic Deeds but conveniently forget or fail to record the less than noble I am no different many times I did and saw things that are best forgotten or left Unwritten War brings out the best and the worst in most of us the Nazis were accused of killing raping pillaging and burning a few on our side were also guilty of these crimes soldiers on both sides looted for souvenir years as did I and yet cruel treatment of the enemy was an unusual occurrence I myself am proud to say that I once saved an enemy soldier’s life this book will attempt to show that ordinary men and women can do extraordinary Feats if they believe the cause is great many G GIS have said that they were merely fighting for each other true but I maintain another another Factor played an more important role and it can be summed up with one word pride regardless of their motives I saw very few cowards in the 116th Infantry Regiment may God bless the many many more Heroes yeah this is one of those books where I’m don’t have a lot to add in some of these situations now Bob Slaughter was his nickname Bob Slaughter and when he got to England they actually took him and a bunch of other soldiers and they formed him into a new unit called the 29th Rangers and they trained these guys Ultra hard they did all kinds of stuff for 11 months getting ready for for The Invasion these these 29th Rangers they did marching and mountain climbing in a a crazy obstacle course they trained in unarmed combat they did log PT cold weather training I mean just grueling training and at the end of all that harsh training for a number of reasons they actually disbanded this group and they sent them all back with their regular units so they they had a group of guys that got trained super hard you know like what we would consider a monitored sort of Special Operation selection course they went through that but then when they got done with this training and they were getting ready for the actual invasion they took him dispersed him amongst the regular troops and the guy that ran this training for the 29th Rangers was a guy named Major Mill Holland and he sent a letter to his daughter and this is what he wrote in this is after these guys got disbanded he said every boy should be made to play football and box and participate in all kinds of Athletics and above all the American should be taught discipline and decent living then he should be given a year of the toughest kind of military training not the kind that we know but the kind I gave my Rangers God I wish I had those boys now we would tear the Germans stringy I hear of the I hear of those boys now and then and although they are almost all gone now they have done unbelievable things and are spoken of almost in a tone of reverence by officers and Men alike who have fought with them they were men train and train hard and learn about disci discipline you parents out there get your kids training Sports decent living that’s how you make men now fast forwarding cuz they went back to their regular army units and they continue to train and prepare for the invasion and Bob Slaughter is a scienti D company 116th infantry 29th Infantry Division and I’m fast forwarding right now straight to D-Day straight to his perception of D-Day and what it was like for him you know this is all that training that these guys have been through and and none of them had been to combat before so this is it their first operation is dday and this is what it’s like back to the book about 150 yards from the shore despite the warning from someone behind me to keep your head down I cautiously peeped up I could see that craft that the craft about 25 yards to our right and a couple of hundred yards ahead were targeted by Small Arms fiery Tracy Tracer bullets skipped off skipped and bounced off the ramp and sides as they zeroed in before the ramps fell I said to anyone close enough to hear above the bedum men we are going to catch hell be ready then it began to happen enemy artillery and mortar shells sent great plumes of water spouting Skyward as they exploded in in the water near Miss rained us with seawater I suddenly became very worried about what Jerry would do to us how in the hell did those sons of survive what we thought was a carpet bombing and un shelling of the beach at slapton Sands we trained with live explosions but these were far more frightening this time they were shooting to kill every one of us the craft slowed as we scraped a submerged Sandbar which kept us from a dry Landing everyone wanted to get the hell off that rocking boat but the Cox had trouble dropping the steel ramp when it finally slammed and splashed down the front of the boat began to Buck like a wild stallion raising six or seven feet turning slightly s sideways and then slamming down again the first man went to exit off about mid-ramp the craft surged forward and crushed the poor fellow to death so I jumped off and moved away from the crazy erratic landing craft luckily I didn’t see anyone else get hit by the ramp I was now struggling in water up to my armpits luckily for me at 6’5 most of the time my head was above water later as I crossed to the beach my height would be a detriment making me a larger Target meanwhile as I tried to get to shore shorter men grabbed my clothing to keep their heads above water suddenly as fear replaced seasickness I was no longer cold most of all I feared I would drown after being shot snipers hiding in the Bluffs hit quite a few men but most of the damage came from Rapid firing automatic weapons in every war since gunpowder was invented soldiers have experienced the dreaded feeling of being under live enemy fire for the first time it was demoralizing to hear good men scream as bullets ripped into soft flesh and others scream as the fierce flooding tide dragged the non-swimmers under I remember helping private Ernest mcandless who was struggling to get closer in he still had one of the precious boxes of 30 caliber machine gun ammo I remember him shouting to me Slaughter are we going to get through all this I didn’t know how to answer him so I didn’t say anything to tell the truth I thought we were all going to die a body with its life pre preserver inflated floated by the face had turned already turned a dark purple at first I thought it was Private Richard Gomez who had a dark complexion but I later found out that Gomez had survived the day the fellow I saw was just one of thousands who died there is no way to be sure if I had known him many of our company were hit in the water and drowned good swimmers or not I came ashore surrounded by the screams of men who had been hit and were drowning under their ponderous loads all around me dead men floated in the water along with Liv men who acted as if they were dead the Germans couldn’t tell which was which the flood tide washed everyone in lying at the edge of the high water mark I watched a GI trying to cross the beach he had a hard time running I believe he was from the craft to our right an enemy Gunner cut him down and he staggered and fell to the sand I can still hear the screaming a well-marked medical Corman moved quickly to help him he was also shot I’ll never forget seeing that that medic lying next to that dying Soldier both screaming for help within minutes as I watched both men fell silent and mercifully died I saw men vomit at the sickening sights and others C cry openly and unashamedly all of us had to find it within ourselves to get across that Sandy no man’s land this is where the army strict discipline and rigorous training took over individual Pride had a lot to do with it too what an unbelievable first combat experience for these guys and I want you to think about that that image of you’re in a boat you’re a couple M offshore maybe two or 300 M offshore and you’re looking 200 M ahead of you and you’re starting to see tracers impact on this boat that you know you’re next you know you’re next there’s no turning back there’s there’s the only thing you can do there’s nothing’s going to stop it did you you saw Saving Private R right yes that movie yes so um I mean to me they they did a good job in capturing that where everyone’s like it’s like real tense and you can slowly start to hear the and the way it kind of builds and builds and how chaotic it gets man it’s like the most especially at that time it was one of the most real feeling um movies you know involing war that they did an outstanding job man they did an outstanding job in that opening scene it’s just so crazy like to hear the real account right and then kind of compare it and you know when you watch the movie you’re like dang that’s crazy that’s cuz you’re kind of in involved in the movie but when you think more and you’re like dang this this really happened this is what really happened yeah and and also I mean obviously the actors do a good job of portraying what’s going on in their minds but this is what was going on in his mik this is what he was thinking and seeing they um Steven Spielberg put those guys through these harsh conditions during that you know so they’d kind of some little Hollywood boot camp yeah but even while they’re filming it you know to kind of help capture um I mean obviously it’s it’s you can’t compare it to the real deal they did an outstanding job they really did and the first time I saw that scene I was uh I was impacted you I was I was definitely impacted yeah man and I I remember um I wasn’t with my guys in ratti they were on and off they were in a really uh hellacious situation and they were in a in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and as they were going on to Target they they were hearing rounds hit the outside of the Bradley as they were get as the ramp was about to go down yeah and actually I think I can’t remember this 100% but I’m pretty sure that the the young officer in that vehicle I remember him telling me I remember him telling me about he was like damn but he said he was scream don’t put the ramp down like just leave it up don’t we’re getting shot at and they couldn’t hear them so they just put the ramp down anyways then what do you do you just go yep dang yeah so back to the book after I fired my M1 it jammed to clean it I slipped out of my assault jacket and spread my raincoat only to discover bullet holes in my pack and coat suddenly overwhelmed with fear I became weak in the knees my hands shook as I tried to wipe sand from my weapon I had to catch my breath and compose myself by midm morning we had worked out worked our way to the base of the hill men from other units began to gather the regimental Commander Colonel Charles D W Canam appeared from down beach with his right arm in a sling and clutch clutching a Colt 45 semi-automatic pistol in his bony left hand Canam didn’t look like a soldier but he sure as hell was one he was tall and thin wore wire rimmed glasses and had a Pencil Thin Mustache he yelled for the officers and noncoms to help him get the men across the beach and up the hill get these men the hell off this goddamn Beach and go kill some goddamn Kuts in a nearby pill box a young a lieutenant colonel taking Refuge from the enemy mortar barrage yelled out to Canam Colonel you better take cover or you’re going to get killed Colonel Canam screamed his reply get your ass out of there and help me get these men off this beach the officer did what Canam ordered so now we got somebody leading a serious leader and in the book Slaughter put the memorandum from Canam that Canam wrote to the Troops prior to D-Day so I’m going to read that 29 May 1944 memorandum to the members of ct16 reinforced to be read by commanders to all Personnel prior to embarkation one the long awaited day is near and prior to embarcation I want to wish each of you the best of luck in your forthcoming Adventure there is one certain way to get the enemy out of action and that is to kill him war is not child’s play and requires hatred for the enemy at this time we don’t have it I hope you get it when you see your friends wounded and killed two learn to take care of yourself from the start remember the Hun is a crafty intelligent fighter and will not have mercy on you don’t have it on him he will try to outwit you be on the alert three fighting a war is the same as any athletic event only war is for Keeps it is you or the enemy teamwork is the essence of success we have the tools the best in the world and is up to you to see that they are used properly four remember when you run into the enemy contain him with the minimum to stop him then move around him and strike him in the flank or the rear in all your contacts with him be ruthless always drive hard the Hun doesn’t like Yankee drive and guts show him that you have plenty if you close with him use your bayonet show him you can take it and dish it out don’t be caught napping don’t let your Yankee curiosity get you blown up by a booby trap or a mine five take care of your arms and Equipment conserve your ammunition make every shot count keep your weapons cleaned and oiled their proper functioning at the right time May mean your life every Soldier must realize the importance of Supply discipline and see that he himself does his part in conserving supplies more than one battle has been lost because Munitions and other supplies were not available six do not eat your K and D rations prior to dday D+ one day you won’t get any more until D plus2 seven the Navy and air will give us plenty of support General Montgomery was very optimistic in his talk to the officers yesterday at this at this time no one knows how much resistance we will meet on D-Day we may be able to walk in without trouble we may have to fight for your life to meet the worst and make up your minds now that you’re going forward regardless and it is a one-way ticket we are not giving any ground at any time and we are not leaving until the job is done to each one of you happy Landings and come off those craft fight like hell canum lays it out out definitely lays it out I think those guys I think those guys couldn’t have couldn’t have heard any better information keep clean keep discipline be ready flank the enemy always hear that flank the enemy yep so now these guys are in kind of in in a holding position they’ve they’ve kind of secured some chunks of the beach and a little bit of The High Ground and now going back to the book we began to think about defending against the expected Counterattack that we were told would take place in less than 24 hours to bolster our defenses we took turns making special trips back to the still dangerous beach in order to find more automatic weapons ammo and supplies when it was my turn to go down I was horrified at what I saw the debris strewn Beach was a disaster area the incoming flooding tide brought with it the bodies of hundreds of our proud regiment scores of our men with bloodstained shirts rolled in the surf among helmets assault jackets gas masks and M1 rifles at the edge of the water I saw a burning landing craft that had had been trying to deposit a Sherman tank down its ramp the tank was also burning and abandoned from our perspective the battle looked hopeless you know that’s something that I he said that a couple times he didn’t think they were going to win you know despite what Canam said hey we’re not going to give up any ground well guess what I don’t know if we’re going to be able to hold this ground we might All Die Here and yet all these men pressed on here’s a little here’s a little look at the German attitude right here I saw a regimental intelligence officer armed with a carbine interrogating a German prisoner The Prisoner was on his knees with his hands behind his head he was rather small and frail looking I was surprised to see he was not wearing the usual Square shaped battle helmet instead he wore a gray build cap the lieutenant asked the prisoner among other things where the minefields were the soldier answered only with the accepted Geneva Convention requirement of name rank and serial number we had been instructed not to take prisoners for the first two or three days so I expected the officer to eventually shoot the prisoner again the interrogator screamed where are the damn minefields again he received the same reply name rank and serial number the Lieutenant’s carbine barked but the bullet was aimed at the ground between the prisoner’s knees The Arrogant German looked straight at the officer and said with a smirk neaked here not here he pointed between his knees here he pointed to his head this told me something about our adversary so you had I mean you we we we know that people will fight to the death we know that they get brainwashed and when you look at any history this this sounds like a young kid probably raised from the young very young age as a Nazi as a loyal Nazi M just like the Japanese that fought to the death that’s what we have here in many cases back to the book combat deaths are ugly and sickening a bullet or piece of red hot shrapnel tears flesh gristle and bone into gruesome wounds a few hours in the Sun causes a body to swell grotesquely and turn dark purple the stench is unbearable such deaths were tragic insults to all those handsome young GIS just beginning their lives who would not fulfill their dreams many of those killed were like me barely teenagers when they enlisted just starting to grow to maturity in the Army those comrades and I spent many happy weekends and furlows together soaking up culture and drinking bids we shared living quarters read each other’s Mail and More significant L shared the misery of training in the most extreme of elements the6th infantry lost from 800 to 1 000 men on dday and D company lost at least 72 of the Dead 20 of them were from my hometown of Rowan Oak five of nine of our officers were killed including Captain Walter Schilling Lieutenant William Gardner Lieutenant Merl Cummings Lieutenant Vincent labowitz and Lieutenant Alton Ashley there were 12 noncoms killed including these Rowan oers Sergeant James Oben Shan staff sergeant James L Wright Sergeant Russell Jack Ingram and Sergeant George D Johnson Corporal Jack Sims add to the list of the Dead 23 privates and another 32 wounded many of them severely and yet our nightmare had just begun brutal absolutely brutal and I I wanted to Rattle off those names of all those people from the hometown you know when we see a soldier or a marine or a sailor get killed now you see what it does to a town you see how it impacts a town imagine 20 from one little Hometown they mooved past the initial D-Day and now now they start to head to St low and this is where you’ve heard about before if you know anything about history you know anything about this part of the war this is when they get into hedro country and they’re fighting from hedro to hedro and these hedro are you know these ancient I guess they’re not structures they’re Hedges but they’re completely difficult to get through you have to cut through them or drive through them with tanks or whatever and they hold up and every one of these hedro becomes Like A Min battle and they’re brutal battles back to the book the sight of another terrible death that occurred at this time haunts my dreams to this day my squad and I were digging a machine gun in placement behind a scrubby headro we had just finished fixing the camouflage when I happened to see a junior officer with field glasses scanning the front I could tell he was a newly arrived replacement his uniform and Equipment were relatively new and warn the sharp report of an 88 mmm fired from some somewhere nearby and sent me diving at the same time the high explosive Missile hit the Lieutenant’s upper torso the second Squad and I were splattered with Gore as the spotter was blown backward minus his head number two Gunner private first class s argur vomited and I knew Lely did too the dreaded German sniper was almost as highly respected as the 88 sharper Shooters gave no warning taking careful aim with sniper scoped mousers the receiving end would hear the sharp crack and instantaneous whine of the bullet if you heard the report of the bullet leaving the muzzle it wasn’t for you German snipers nearly always aimed for the head if it was visible and in range most infantry men never removed their helmets except when they shaved and I confess that I slept in mine the 8 mm bullet could easily pass through the helmet through the head and out the other side with enough energy left to do more damage I saw men get hit between the eyes or just above the ears which killed them instantly if the bullet missed the helmet the entry hole was usually neat and showed only a small trickle of blood but after the steel jacket bullet hit the helmet or the skull the bullet flattened causing the wound to shatter the other side of the head away they start receiving more fire he jumps for cover and then back to the book I climbed back on the path shaken but unscathed within minutes I had another surprise as I approached an opening on the right side of the hedro I heard someone moaning crawling carefully through the opening I came face to face with a young German paratrooper who had been hit by a large chunk of shrapnel he had a very serious upper thigh wound and his left trouser leg was bloody and torn this was my first encounter with the Enemy up close the German paratrooper is a Fierce and fanatical Warrior easily distinguishable by his round helmet and baggy smok my first reaction was to put him out of his misery and keep going I believe he knew what I was thinking he begged tearfully comrade B which means friend please he was an impressive looking young Soldier about 19 years old my age he was as filthy as I was with long brown Brown stringy hair I’d always thought most German soldiers had short blonde hair he had an athletic build about 5′ 10 in tall about 180 lb and a handsome face I suspended the promise I had made at the beach about not taking any prison prisoners I thought this that was then and this is now I just couldn’t shoot a wounded human being at Point Blank Range range I made sure he didn’t have a weapon hidden on him then I tied his belt around his upper thigh which stopped the blood from gushing I gently swabbed the dirt from his wound and applied sulfa powder his wse turned to a forced grin he was in pain so I gave him a shot of morphine and a drink of water from my canteen then I let him have one of my lucky strike cigarettes and lit it for him as I left he smiled weekly and said in guttural broken English Dana God bless good luck that changed my thinking about taking prisoners I still hated the enemy but I couldn’t kill one at close range especially if his hands were up I sent one of our Medics to finish what I had started I hoped the German would recover and that his war was over that’s a compassionate human being right there yeah doesn’t it kind of in a way put it into perspective but more shed the light shed light on potentially the overall attitude where you’re fighting a war and the enemy is more this entity of an enemy you know it’s not like I’m going to kick this guy I mean I’m sure it’s like that sometimes it’s not personal yes and the US and military and we still do this they’re going to dehumanize the enemy as much as they can to make it easier for you to kill them yes that’s why you call them Kuts that’s why you call them dinks that’s why you call them whatever the slang you know which would now be all be considered racial terms or or Politically Incorrect terms there’s a reason they’re trying to dehumanize these other people they’re trying to dehumanize the enemy so that you can more easily kill them and when you come face to face with them all of a sudden they become human yeah isn’t that crazy though like this whole crazy thing is probably the craziest thing imaginable for this guy he comes face to face with a guy that that you know kind of in between the bullets so to speak and he’s face to face with this person and then really what the whole experience was reduced to in that moment is this one person helping another person you know and then even and impacted both of them obviously you know where the guy was like hey God bless almost like hey man we’re in this War I dig it almost like a football game or something like hey man I dig it you know we’re on different teams hey good luck he told him good luck in a war so man it’s man that that whole human factor when when you’re exposed to it even with the Enemy dang that that’s got to be strong huh yeah definitely definitely can be I mean in in World War I I mean there was times where they and this is really famous there was times where they got out of the trenches and played soccer on Christmas Day against each other and then the next day go back to slaughtering each other you know how crazy that must feel in in this weird way that must feel so good you know to be like like you know like you ever got like when you’re a kid or even as an adult when you get in a like a argument with someone real bad maybe your friend or or or not whatever you get a real bad argument with them and I don’t know it lasts a day or two or a week I don’t know whatever it’s real bad and at the end you guys make up and you guys are like back friends again it’s almost like man it’s such a good feeling maybe because of the contrast or I don’t know maybe because I don’t know but it’s like it has to have like that kind of feeling when you’re in this crazy War you’re like I hate this so much hatred and just aggression and oppos you got to remember this is there’s plenty of guys and there’s plenty of Germans that got smoked right there without a second thought yeah and he just had that moment and maybe if that guy would have looked a little bit different or acted a little bit differently or something happened more quick like faster or something you know it it just slowed down just for that second and and sucked them right sucked them both right who knows what happened later the next people that came the medic might have gone over and said wait you sent me over here to work on a German yeah that could have happened too you just never know dang now we’re going to start getting crushed with some artillery back to the book Jerry pounded the 116th all day and two nights with Blockbuster 155 mm and 105 mm artillery near misses caused enough concussion to make our ears ring and our heads ache the pounding rounds of Salvo after Salvo of Earth sh shaking artillery were Relentless and frightening during the bombardment I shared a long shallow slit trench with one of my first D company Replacements private Lewis Cass from Chevy Chase Maryland we nicknamed him Junior early on because of his boyish looks and demeanor Junior was from an affluent family and had volunteered into the army upon graduation from high school he didn’t look like the type that could last very long in brutal combat our slit trench was covered with wood and sheathing and topped with a roof Ro of piled dirt like thousands of other infantry soldiers subjected to such heavy bombardment Junior and I were a pitiful sight fine yellow dust sifted through the cracks and the roof and stuck to our sweaty skin and eyes if the dust had been black we would have looked like very tired coal miners the yellow dust turned to Mud around our swollen bloodshot eyes when Nature called we had to answer in the safety of our slit Tren lying down all the training and experience in the world could not have prepared us for this kind of harassment those boxar Box Car size shells sounded like they were flip-flopping end overend and screeching straight for our hole this went on hour after hour all day and through the night many good soldiers cracked and who could blame them the long bouts of Duty had been taking their toll it was extremely rare for an infantry men to go unscathed for very long many 29ers were wounded two three or four times fighting through the Hedge RS of Normandy all of us were praying for the million dooll wound which missed vital organs bone and nerves but would give us a long stay in an English Hospital sleep ing under clean white sheets and at least in fantasy in the care of a beautiful nurse meanwhile battle fatigue and self-inflicted wounds had become serious problems at least once nearly all combat soldiers if they are honest consider shooting themselves in order to get out of the hell of battle self-inflicted wounds however are considered disgraceful and if proven in a court Marshal offense nevertheless many respectable Kia and wounded in action were in reality self-inflicted or friendly fire accidents so we have some massive stress stress that’s driving men to shoot themselves yeah and another mention of the million dooll wound yes you know like the the ticket out you know and he’s saying at least once nearly all combat soldiers if they are honest consider shooting themselves in order to get out of the hell of battle back to the book landmines and booby traps were also common ways to be wounded or killed hearing the news of who had gotten hit was always hard and every day new faces replaced seasoned infantry men it was easy to distinguish a new arrival from a veteran the Old Timer could be 18 or 19 years old but if he had survived a week on the front he was considered old and we all looked it on a diet of K rations we all lost weight our ribs shoulder blades and Adam’s apples stuck out and our filthy ragged uniforms hung like worn out drapes our eyes were blood red and sunken and we had bleeding sores on our Exposed Skin ordinar ordinarily these would be telltale signs that a man needs a month’s rest but we all knew there would be no rest until ST Low was taken knowing that there was no immediate end in sight drove some fellas over the edge a few good soldiers who couldn’t take the pounding day after day committed suicide this was the case of Stanley corak a 19-year-old private born and raised in Chicago he was a tough athletic Little Soldier he made the D-Day Landings and had fought well through the Hedge RS but everyone has a Breaking Point his Squad reported that Stan who had seen many of his close friends killed or severely wounded had begun to act strangely strangely he cried often especially during incoming artillery barges and sometimes his crying reached the point of Hysteria instead of the usual disciplinary action for similar Behavior he was sent back to the kitchen area for a break from the action many of us thought that a few days rest a couple of hot meals and a warm bath might rehabilitate him but he was in more pain than any of us had realized why couldn’t we see that he had reached his limit private corak found a Cook’s Springfield 03 rifle removed his shoe so he could pull the trigger and blew the top of his head off one of the cooks heard the shot and ran to his tent Stanley corak had had enough of the constant fear the filthy grind the ear shattering explosions the putrid smells the excruciating pain and the maming and deaths of his close friends Stan corak died on July 2nd the record book shows he was killed a non-battle casualty in my book private corak died an American Hero so we got to know that this demon that we’re dealing with now has been around for a long time mhm and you know that’s a classic situation where his death Stan cor’s death is reported as a non-battle casualty which means no one labeled him a suicide which means how many people did that happen to and it was never captured it wasn’t reported and so now we never dealt with it and if you don’t deal with things if you don’t capture the Lessons Learned if you don’t recognize these things how you going to fix them as Bob slauter pointed out it was almost impossible for one of these guys to go day after day after day and knock get wounded and he ended up getting wounded got shrapnel frag in his back gets pulled off the battlefield luckily and sent to an English hospital and here’s what he says about that it is one thing to visit a wartime Army hospital but something quite different and much worse to be a patient in one lawmakers would consider armed conflicts more carefully before rattling the proverbial saber if they were forced to visit an ampute abdominal burn or plastic surgery Ward you hear that lawmakers before you send boys off to war you need to go and spend some time in a hospital with Wounded vets and make damn sure your decision that you’re making back to the book I recovered an award dedicated to abdominal wound abdominal wound patience a bullet or a piece of metal shrapnel puncturing the stomach can cause a lifetime of embarrassment and misery the aftermath of a gut wound is either death or Eternal Marriage to a colostomy sack the stench in that Ward was predictable it was tough to share quarters with seriously wounded patients at night the moaning and groaning and sometimes Screaming made it hard to sleep many of the men there died I remember one particularly sad loss swarthy Tony from Brooklyn was the third floor clown the shift nurses fell in love with him because he kept the ward laughing with his teasing and practical jokes but one night his cherished laughter came to an awful end on a Saturday night with a skeleton crew on duty Tony began to be complain of a sharp pain to the gut a floor nurse was paged and after several tries she arrived by that time Tony was screaming as two orderlies quickly wielded Ked him into the emergency room 2 hours later Tony was dead of gang green poisoning facial distri facial disfigurement was terrible and more devastating to the patient than any other kind of wound a few men had lost arms or legs either partly or completely and as a result some of them became so-called basket cases even so and it’s sad to say some severely maimed men were actually happy about their condition because they were going home their combat days were over so the war ends and actually Bob Slaughter does go back he recovers from his wounds he goes back he’s there for the Allied Victory and that’s a another just fantastic story of how that all happens and then he was out of the out of the army and this is what that feels like back to the book on July 13th 1945 I was suddenly separated from the service discharged at Fort me Maryland with a few dollars in my pocket and the khaki uniform on my back I was suffering mental as well as physical wounds but there was no one to counsel me I was a civilian again but I was not comfortable socializing with other civilians I was 20 years old with an 11th grade education and no skills other than soldiering I was left alone to find my way home to Rowan Oak Virginia there was no treatment for post traumatic stress syndrome it was simply called battle fatigue those of us who had returned from the war were left to tough it out the years rolled by our hair grayed and thinned waistlines grew and many of our company Associates developed health problems Our Generation smoked cigarettes and drank hard liquor many of our men who had hiked half way around the world became sedentary we didn’t like to exercise we traveled to the beach or went to swimming pools thinking that Sunshine was good for the skin many were disabled by wounds drank and smoked too much and died prematurely the war still took its toll long after it was over rarely did anyone talk about the war the media were silent our children uninterested and we ourselves sought to forget I got married raised two sons and went to work for a midsized newspaper in a midsized community I found time to acquire a modum of Education coach Little League baseball and was grateful to live a normal American life too many of my Army buddies failed to reach their 25th birthday and many of those who did were never the same after what they had been through they just couldn’t adjust to the real world many of them fell prey to alcohol loose women radical religion or isolation anything to help them get through each day month and year seven of our D Company Men committed suicide compared to those and thousands more I have been blessed in some ways writing this book a process that has taken me almost 15 years has been the last leg of the journey I realize that I speak for many who never had the chance to speak for themselves and I have done my best to pay them tribute My Hope Is that this Memoir in however small a way will perpetuate their memory and stand as a witness to their sacrifices it saddens and worries me that so much of the world including America itself refuses to learn the hard lessons of the past now that I am in my 80s I am well aware that the Long March that began so many years ago is about to come to a halt I am proud to say that my generation helped save the world from tyranny prevent the extinction of an entire group of people and preserve the Democratic freedoms of our wonderful American way of life I wouldn’t change a thing except to wish that my dear Army buddies could be here too [Music] and John Robert Bob Slaughter died on May 29th 2012 and William Blake The Poet you asked who can stand and I will tell you it is men like Bob Slaughter that stand and it’s men like him that encourage me and tell me in no uncertain terms that we are capable of more we can do more we can be more we can stand not much to say after that one eeko no sir not much to say yeah I can obviously I can’t help but agree fully you know and and a lot of these um you know when we go through these books it just man it’s crazy how much it puts into perspective you know we everyone knows about World War II everyone know you know most people we know about World War II we know about the wars but that’s we don’t really know about the wars you know we don’t know about the the details that we don’t know about individual experiences which really is that’s that’s what makes the wars yes and we don’t know anything about that and what’s interesting I this book was recommended to me from from Twitter from one of the Troopers out there and so we have Banda Brothers right and everybody knows Banda Brothers not everybody but most people more people know banded Brothers cuz it was a book and then it was a big HBO movie and it was it was awesome um this book is less well-known mhm but what you have to know is that there’s thousands and thousands of stories that we don’t know and we will never know I mean some of them we will try to know but there’s so many stories that we will never know yeah that moment in combat when this guy tried to save that guy and they both did something completely heroic and they both died and we never will know yep so we have to cherish what we can find out what we can learn but there’s just so much there and so much sacrifice that was made and as I always say what are we doing right now yeah to honor that sacrifice you more that’s what we need to do more agree and with that let’s make a uh let’s make the hard transition once again to the the rough transition to the interweb for some questions speaking of inter interwebs on it com /jo is where you can get 10% off of the spectacular supplements namely K oil and shroom Tech what about Alpha brainy that’s good that you remembered that you must have been on alphab brain and also you might want to just do yourself that favor and get some of those Warrior bars what else um if you’re in the mood to support this podcast before you shop on Amazon click on the Amazon link on Joop podcast com or Joost store com sometimes people have been saying hey there’s a problem with the link like you know it’s not working or whatever um some browsers have ad block or has ad blockers activated on it got it so disable the ad blocker for that page and you can do it and I’m still working on the Canada one I don’t know if we can even do the Canada one and the UK one anyway um click through the the Joo store or Joop podcast com and before you do your Amazon shopping and you can support that way or get a shirt or coffee mug or a bumper sticker from Joost store com and we we weren’t keeping it a secret or nothing but we do have a new shirt out oh we do know the darkness apprciate you know the saying well I know that this I know that this podcast can get a little bit dark from time to time yeah cuz you know how like your your original um one of your original things was you know you go through life and certain people all they see is is the good things so they get kind of desensitized to like the re the the just small little good things in life you know so when you when you and that’s really everything anyway where you know when you there’s no tall people if everyone’s the same size so you kind of got to know both you know yeah both short and tall no I’ve said it many times in uh I think I there originally I think I originally said it on the Tim fah show and he said he said something along the lines of like hey Joo I’ve struggled with depression how close should you get to the darkness right right right cuz I was talking about some dark things and I said well Tim if you really want to know the light then you got to know the darkness right so Eko made a t-shirt about the darkness yeah just says know the dark and here’s the thing I kind of added another dimension to it it’s it’s all black it’s black on black so see can’t you know it’s all dark you can kind of see it like Anyway cool cool new shirt new shirt out if you want that one um yeah there it is let’s get to some questions from the interwebs first question Joo what is your relationship to surfing could you surf on active duty and what does surfing do for you okay so my relationship with surfing number one I was lucky to have a guy that when I was a kid up in Maine that said hey I’m going to teach you how to surf this guy was a lifeguard he was a outstanding Surfer and he said I’m going to teach you how to surf you I was 10-year-old kid and I said ice water in the freezing cold water and I said yeah awesome and so he gave me an old surfboard and put me out there and taught me how to surf when I was 10 years old and it definitely you know surfing up in Maine is a little bit different because it’s dark and it’s cold and you got to do a little bit of suffering if you want to enjoy the benefits of it you got to know the darkness as they say anything about the darkness of Surfing Kawai it’s not very cool yeah on Kawai you didn’t have to deal with that so so that’s how I got into surfing and surfing a lot of people will tell you when you when you do it it’s it’s somewhat addictive because it’s a very a very you know kind of paradoxical thing cuz it’s very relaxing at the same time it’s very kind of exciting I guess is the word you get a little adrenaline but you get a little mellowed out too so it’s a very fun thing to do good for you it’s good for your brain it’s good for the soul right and when I was on active duty and if you’re on active duty in the SEAL Teams yeah you can surf and I definitely surfed sometimes more more I was more focused on surfing than others when I really went BJJ crazy I wasn’t doing anything else with any free time other than Jiu-Jitsu so that’s but yeah there’s guys there’s guys in the SEAL Teams that that actually manipulate their career around surfing because you can get stationed and you can go on trips to Great surf spots and and all that and there’s some there’s some pretty amazing Surfers in the seal teams in the military as well but I mean I only know about guys in SEAL Teams there’s a good guy named Ivan Trent who whose dad was Buzzy trying to famous old Pioneer Surfer in Hawaii and Ivan Trent there was a picture when I first got in the SEAL Teams there was a picture of Ivan Trent dropping in on a giant wave at wiia Bay the famous wiia bay so there’s some great Surfers it’s a definitely a little subculture inside the teams and and you could definitely you can definitely surf a lot I mean you’re you’re living in San Diego or Virginia Beach I mean Virginia Beach has waves sometimes San Diego has waves a lot of the times and what does it do for me well one thing is it gets gets you outside gets me outside and gets you out into nature and what I like about nature nature what I like about nature is nature makes you feel small that’s what nature to me that’s what’s good about nature that’s what that’s why nature puts things in perspective because nature makes you feel small makes you realize you know what look at the ocean I’m nothing look at the giant Wilderness I’m in I’m nothing so it just keeps you in check keeps you in perspective and that’s one of the that’s actually one of the things that the probably the only thing I don’t like about Jiu-Jitsu is pretty much the most part it’s inside it’s inside the gym on the mat right right and so you know you can do it outside but it’s it’s hard to do outside this the mats get super hot yeah it’s just not it’s just a thousand times more efficient and convenient to do inside it’s novel outside it’s novel exactly it’s cool to do some times and at my old house I had like a full outdoor Jiu-Jitsu area which was cool and I had a shade structure over it was good it was good but you have to have something to that extent before it’s not like you can just do Jiu-Jitsu outside and you can do it it’s but it’s novel and you know how you know if you do it in Grass you get the grass itches yeah yeah for some reason I don’t know what it is when you do Jiu-Jitsu in Grass you’re all itchy yeah yeah but even that’s kind of not you know how like this is more when you’re younger you know when you first learned Jiu-Jitsu you got learn you’re doing Jiu-Jitsu every friend you’re at the party and everything a Matt when you’re a blue belt you’re just looking at everything like it’s a mat and and you know so I think I think with other people um you know some people obviously you’re not by the ocean but you know anything outside running hiking biking swimming even playing outdoor sports like soccer and shooting basketball outside just whatever just get outside just get outside get out in the air feel it and I’ll tell you one more thing about Jiu-Jitsu and surfing there’s a little connection there there’s a little connection between Jiu-Jitsu and surfing I don’t know what it is I know what it is do you know what it is what is it balance well you know you got like even Kelly Slater who’s you know what is he the 11 time 12 time champion of the world in surfing he does Jiu-Jitsu you got guys like Joel Tor Tor y JT if you don’t know who Joel tutor is he’s a just a legendary longboard Surfer M and actually he’s from San Diego so we kick it with JT from time to time and actually I see him on a regular basis at the at the longboard surfing contest cuz both his kid and my kid surf in the long on the long boards but Joel Joel tutor who’s a who’s a literally one of the most you know many people consider him to be the best longboard Surfer of all time oh dang of all time yeah you didn’t even know he was that good did you I knew he of all time I didn’t know that and I’m not I’m not going to make that declaration cuz then a million people will say No it should be this guy but there is many there are many people in the world who consider Joel tutor to be the best longboard Surfer of all time I met I met Joel tutor in Jiu-Jitsu he just started coming and he there um Shannon was like Hey roll with him he’s good at Jiu-Jitsu so I was like oh cool he was like a brown belt at the time in a roll and he’s really good at Jiu-Jitsu and I was like okay cool Joel and I see him during the day it was like melow group and he’d come to the head roll with Joel sometimes yeah be like cool Joel tutor he’s this kind of guy who’s smaller than me will say and he’s better than me cool cool one day you know who told me Joel tutor was a badass longboarder who cake nuts H hey is that Joel Tor in that picture right there with you and I was like yeah yeah how you know he bro that’s a long Bo he’s so badass that’s funny yeah yeah and and and not only is he so awesome at surfing he’s Jiu-Jitsu is sick too very is yes so Joel Tor won and then you get then once you go once you go Brazilian in this scenario then there’s all kinds of Surfing going on CU that’s a culture down there you know F me my first instructor Fabio Santos he he’s a he’s a badass Surfer hoer hickon uh even kid pgo he’s yeah so so there’s definitely and and when you just meet guys surfing there’s like a decent chance that they train the Jiu jits right and so you said you know what the connection is I know of some connections yes major ones speak so educate okay so me it’s one of these things where kind of on the surface it feels like you against this big wash of a challenge right both of them but really it’s not it’s not like this challenge that you take on it’s more of a challenge that you kind of just ride with and it’s more you yourself so and on and that could be that could be mountain climbing whatever but this is Jiu-Jitsu and surfing is it always changes it’s not different it may seem same in one way or another it’s same but every single experience is different yeah and it’s not something you can just take control of you know it’s not one of those things it’s you have to you have to ride the wave yes and in surfing it’s literally in Jiu-Jitsu it’s you got to go with it you can’t fight it just like you can’t fight a wave you got to and it’s um and they’re both that yes so of course yeah they take balance but those are just little small physical ATT cuz other sports take balance too them do yeah but yeah it’s it’s you I mean it’s kind of a spiritual type thing to say it’s you against yourself right but that’s really what it is it’s like you have to improve yourself you don’t it’s not about conquering this you know maybe psychologically it is but it’s still within yourself and it and it’s constantly changing that’s get getting philosophical it’s true though but I like it yeah no that’s good and my last comment on that was both of them both surfing and Jujitsu empty your bra they empty my brain out they empty my brain out and they they give me a nice clean slate to do other things with yep so that’s that all right for the record it come from kawhai but sorry to say I don’t surf yeah but bro I used to shred bodyboarding and sponger yeah total sponger oh and by the way um it’s why not why Mia oh I I’m not I’m correcting you cuz you’re my friend but I don’t want to be a corrector that’s no correct correct okay yeah absolutely could be why Mia I guess right it’s just pronunciation spell why Mia but I’m AO what can I say if you be a corrector too much you become the guy that people are tolerating so you don’t want to be the guy at the party that people are tolerating you don’t want to be that guy no matter how smart you want them to think you are well you just proved your your intelligence you gave me permission all right next question started Jiu-Jitsu this week and love it I’m a former boxer and was thrilled that they let me Spar on my first day is sparring on the first day too soon in your opinion I was repeatedly told to tone it down by the higher belts I thought I was toning it down is Jiu-Jitsu more like a dance or a street tussle am I supposed to relax and let these green and blue belts destroy me I’m confused this is such a great question because you see this all the time and you and and I know from the from the podcast and from Twitter that there’s so many people that are starting Jiu-Jitsu yes because of the podcast and that’s definitely why I wanted to answer this one because this is how everybody feels when they start yep and you’re always going to get the senior belts or the more experienced people telling you hey man you got to relax by the way if he’s rolling with green belts that means he’s rolling with people under the age of 16 years old yeah you know I actually had a little discussion I’ve heard that there’s some acmis that give out green belts as an inter mediate belt between white and blue that there’s adults I have never heard of it but I was told that the other day so that might be the situation here yep I dig it and by the way I’ll just go on record of saying I disagree with it yeah and you don’t have a green belt as an adult you should be white belt and then blue belt that’s the way it was and that’s the way it should remain yeah if I were an instructor that’s how I would do but to me hey man do what you dig and he’s doing Jiu-Jitsu and his green belt if in fact he’s in a adult he’s J Jiu-Jitsu apparently long enough to get a green belt so I say hey no no he’s not a green belt yet right right but some guy in the event of this green belt that he’s mentioned being an adult okay either way I say I say go do it so so yeah the now now the reason that people are telling you to relax they’re trying to be helpful because you’re going to learn more if you relax and you actually concentrate on the techniques that you’ve been told the couple techniques that you’ve learned try them mhm I’m not saying don’t fight it because you you have you don’t know what else to do M so you just use your horrible instincts to try and just muscle out of stuff and you get beat anyways and that’s why it’s you’re just beating your head against the wall so they’re trying to get you to relax and use the technique that you learn and pay attention to what the other person’s doing and think about where they’re positioning their body and what they’re doing and how that’s working so you can actually ask him and say hey when you were holding me here I couldn’t move my arm how are you holding that so you can learn if all you’re trying to do is muscle out of it you’re not thinking about what’s happening and that’s that’s not a good sign right yeah I I think it’s funny cuz relax you know when you hear relax as a as a white I don’t know if you even remember when you’re a white boat but when they say relax more accurately put they should say not they should say but they’re saying try try to relax cuz we know everyone knows the guy’s not going to relax he’s over here rolling with a guy doesn’t know anything of course guy’s in Mount which is like you know super uncomfortable to be in of course he’s going to be trying to flip out try to get out of there he doesn’t know the moves so he can’t be like you know hey I’m going to relax and do all the moves I know he knows two moves he’s it’s his first day or whatever so the so yeah try to relax and I think you that’s a good point where don’t be going so hard and spazzing out so hard that nothing’s going through your mind as far as what position is this guy on me you know I I remember not my first first day but early on where side control I barely even realized the difference between a side control and a you know half guard situation and that’s one of the things that as time went on I wish I would have known you know like okay this is side control and if you would have been more aware and less fighting right you would have said oh wait he’s got my leg trapped that’s what feels different exactly right that’s a game you got to you got to switch your game to this side control game you know yep and what’s telling someone am I supposed to let these green and blue belts destroy you no but you got to remember you can’t look at it like a fight right it’s not a fight yeah it’s not a fight you know what it is don’t let them destroy you let them educate you right that’s what when you’re rolling with a higher belt especially when you don’t know very much at all they’re educating you yeah you should be trying to pay attention and let’s just take this off the mats and into life MH because when you get into a situation an unknown situation what are you going to do are you going to fight and struggle against when someone’s has more knowledge than you about some topic are you going to fight against them no just be quiet and listen and learn when you’re in a new scenario something you’ve never done before are you going to try and compete and win this thing you’ve never done before are you going to try and learn and be educated my recommendation is to learn and be educated because you’re not going to win MH lest it’s a miracle but most situations don’t allow for miracles mhm so when you’re in life relax try and learn when you’re on the mat relax try and learn try to relax try to relax got to try and relax it’s true and when I don’t maybe this is just me but when I think of the whole Spectrum when I first started versus just even right now and of course I don’t have it all figured out but when I kind of reflect on that whole learning process I like the fact that I couldn’t really relax at the beginning because I you start to realize oh I see how I learned that right there you know I see how I see the difference now in the time where I didn’t really know how to relax versus even like the time where I thought I knew how to relax but after you know 8 10 minutes you’re oh dying versus you know now where you can go 1020 hard you know and find places where you can relax and be able to basically control the scenarios where you can relax I I like that I like that the beginning you can’t relax just like in the beginning you didn’t know certain moves relaxing is yet another move yeah there you go d i I rolled with Dean tonight Dean Lester and he was all fired up cuz he’d been on a trip and so he’s like hey let’s roll so we rolled and and he he got the mount position and I just was down there relaxing speaking of relaxing I was just down there relaxing and and I’m relaxing but I’m just doing a little bit of um uh off balancing of him so he can’t really relax 100% MH and it took me a few minutes like about five but I got out of the mount then got back to another position Got Back to guard so it’s you’re right relaxing is actually a technique in Jiu-Jitsu yep yeah so and and a big part of it um not the whole thing but a big part of it is just being conscious of it you know maybe I’m spazzing too much or something of course with everything it’s going to come with reps it’s going to come with experience and stuff like that but yeah and by the way Dean would tell you and I would tend to agree with him not only is relaxing a a technique spazzing is also a technique yeah and sometimes you know Dean will get some position on me and I will spaz to get out of it now I’m not encouraging the person that wrote this question to start working on their spaz technique don’t start working on that till later save that right now start with your relax technique yeah yeah all right next question in regards to podcast number 23 in The Art of War many of the rules seem very simplistic in black and white take this one for example when the enemy occupies High Ground do not confront him if he attacks downhill do not oppose him where does that leave us with battles like Normandy where troops had to get up those Cliffs what about the IDF Conquering the Golan Golan Golan Heights Golan Heights in the sixth day war there are many other examples I could give it’s obviously not ideal to do such things as fighting a well-entrenched enemy uphill but dealing with less than ideal situations is a part of War we should all be so lucky as to only be able to choose battles that fit The Art of War but from my experience it’s often not an option in real life and you have to somehow get it done anyway so yeah this is a pretty simple question with a pretty simple answer too don’t forget that the laws or the the The Art of War and the and the laws in The Art of War the rules the simplistic back and white rules in the in the Art of War are governed by other rules that say to break the rules themselves so so just to pull out a couple quotes I went and pulled these out sunu says he who can modify his tactics in relation to his opponent and thereby succeed in winning may be called a heaven born Captain so if you can adapt to the situation and and adapt your tactics and modify your tactics so attacking uphill is a modification of a tactic right yes the next one I pulled out sunu says do not repeat tactics that have gained you one Victory but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances that answers the question in its own right mhm let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances and the last little quote I pulled up from sunu According as circumstances are favorable one should modify one’s plans so there’s three rules from The Art of War that tell you to change the rules of The Art of War when you have to so um yeah you’re told to avoid these situations but sometimes you have to now it’s also important to remember that the philosophy of The Art of War generally espouses an indirect methodology of combat where often times you’re trying to uh keep yourself safe and inflict damage when you can that implies that maybe I have less physical IAL strength or size than my opponent so I have less soldiers or less equipment than my opponent and from that perspective let me ask this would it be smart to attack Normandy if you actually didn’t have the the numbers to carry out the attack and you didn’t have the overwhelming force that we had amassed on England to go and assault France it wouldn’t make sense then it would make sense to continue to obey the the the the the principles in The Art of War which is you know what we’re not going to attack headon we’re going to figure out another way to do it so like I said these are rules but these are rules like all rules that are meant to be broken when the time calls for it so good question but it’s a it’s a the The Art of War answers that question in itself Joo how do the seals reconcile themselves with the fact they face death on every operation they undertake more so than the conventional forces is this something that is learned well first of all let me make it perfectly clear that this is not true what is it well first of all the part that you face death on every operation there’s always a chance but furthermore and more importantly this idea that the seals or Special Operations unit face death more so than conventional forces not true in fact in many cases seals are safer than the conventional forces the conventional forces are out there doing very difficult operations that are often times more dangerous I mean even just something as simple as going on a logistics Convoy you are I mean in Iraq and Afghanistan you are extremely exposed in those situations you’re on the defensive because you’re in a convoy you’re just waiting to get blown up and so that situation is you’re you’re facing you’re much you’re much more exposed in that situation doing a daytime Convoy run down IED roads than you would be if you were doing a night Patrol through the same area there’s just that’s just the way it is I mean there’s other operations too I mean presence patrols and census operations there’s all kinds of operations that the conventional units do that are extremely dangerous they also often times have less support so for instance there’s there’s a aircraft called an ac130 that is just a miraculous piece of equipment just an incredible weapon system and it’s a airplane that flies around at 10 000 feet and it can see everything because it has these incredible incredible imagery systems on it so they can see everything that’s happening they can track they can and then they can shoot and Destroy anything they want so a lot of times the the Special Operations unit will have for instance something like an AC-130 supporting them you know on top of that special operations that get really good training so you’ve got this this outand now the the conventional forces often have great training as well but sometimes they don’t have the best training in the world then you’re in a you’re in a seal platoon or you’re in a special operations you know a in a special forces Oda you’re going to have some good training under your belt that you’ve been going through for many many years so that training makes you safer as well and and you know you’re going to get often times again you’re going to get better gear in Special Operations cuz they have a big budget for a smaller number of people the logistical support the the flexibility that you have in Special Operations is usually it’s usually better and I I mean like the logistics in the army or the rine cor is awesome mhm and and it definitely is better than Special Operations but Special Operations is usually is is always supporting a much smaller unit so even though Logistics people or systems might not be as good they’re overwhelmingly good for the small number of people that are in Special Operations so um you know I’ll just go one step further a lot of times you know in ratti the conventional guys they were living out in the city they were living out in the city of rad after we put combat Outpost in place you know we seals would return to base after a few days out in the field these guys stayed out there so we’d return back and you know get a get a shower and get some good food and relax you know we had permanent guards that kind of guarded our base with a really big perimeter so we we were in a good spot to stand down for the most part whereas the conventional guys they’re out there in ratti they’re standing watch you know oh you know we go back and can take a break and go on the internet when they take a break they’re going into a Watch Tower so I just don’t I just want to make sure I make it perfectly clear that you know the the conventionals are by no means doing anything less risky than the special operations in fact most of the time they’re doing things that are more risky tougher missions higher risk you know that’s just the way it is so that’s why you know we have just the utmost respect and admiration for the conventional units that we work with in ratti and and I’ll tell you the guys that’s how we feel um so now the question becomes how do we any service member face death is the question and again it’s any service member anybody that’s going to war has to realize that there’s a possibility that they could get killed and so what do you how do you get over that for me it was acceptance and saying to myself you know what okay I could get killed and it could happen tonight it could happen tomorrow it could happen in a week I don’t know when it’s going to happen but it could happen and you know what I’m not afraid of it so if I’m afraid of it that’s going to be hard to deal with every single day the other piece of it is you deal with it by mitigating as much risk as you possibly can okay what can we do how can I make sure that I’m safe you know how I make sure that I can stay as safe as possible I train hard I make sure my guys are training hard I make sure my guys are dial dialed in I make sure that they know what the plan is when we go out on the battlefield that’s that’s what you do you mitigate as much risk as you can and then there’s areas where you can’t mitigate risk yeah there’s areas where you could catch a you could you could find an IED you could find a bullet you could find a bomb and that’s it and you can’t in my mind you can’t worry about things that you can’t control so the things that you can’t control accept them and let’s focus on mitigating what we can control and I think that’s probably that’s what I that’s what I did when I was in those situations and I would tell you that that’s what most of the guys that I was with had something along those lines in their in their brains yeah that um acceptance is such a like powerful thing like if you just accept something like okay I’m at risk of this or I’m um like this is going to be a terrible crude example comparatively speaking compared to what compared to accepting okay the risk of death but let’s hear it let’s say you messed is it a long example’s say let’s say you go to work the fans wanted me to say that yeah yeah yeah yeah all let’s say you go to work you go to work and right when you walk in one of your co-workers say hey man uh your boss is looking for you he’s going to and you know you did something you messed it up you blew off some meeting I don’t know whatever you messed up with the client you’re like hey man the boss is looking for you and you’re like so you’re going to avoid the boss at all costs oh that’s going to make her a long day yeah so let’s say you avoid him one day the whole day boom you clocked out you’re out next day same thing oh shoot he’s looking for even more even more even more after a while it’s going to weigh on you and once you just be like I’m going to get true out let me just accept it and then you know you can go through with it stress is gone yeah really you know um um analogy accepted yeah or like for examp just kidding thank god well if like a bully is looking for you go up and get him yeah like you know well I don’t know if you’ve ever been bullied in school but um like if someone’s looking for you they’re mad at you or whatever and you know they’re looking for you the bully and you’re like man you’re avoiding them you’re avoiding them after a while you just all right I accept it you know something’s going to have to go down I’m going to have to experience this confrontation yeah and really the acceptance point would be to say you know what what’s the worst thing that could happen the worst thing could happen he beats me up I get a bloody nose I don’t care anymore right I’m going to go get it yeah because what you’re talking about really is facing the problem which I also support you know what you got a problem whether it’s meeting with your boss or whether you’re going to get bullied I’m going to face that problem so that’s one piece but one thing that will help you to face the problem is saying okay what’s the worst thing that happens you know what I go into my boss he might fire me okay if he fires me I’m going to have to go get a new job but that’s the worst thing that’s going to happen right what’s the worst thing that happens if I get in a fight with a bully worst thing that happens I’m going to get a bloody nose I’m get beat up yeah but you know what I can handle that so let me to go face this issue and it’s the same thing in combat what’s the worst thing that happens worst thing that happens I’m going to get killed okay that happens it’s over I’m good with it let’s go out and face it and you know honestly I I said it’s the worst thing but honestly the thing that guys are usually most afraid of is having their friends get hurt or their guys get hurt that’s that’s the worst thing so F and then even how you said the the training helps and that seems obvious you know but I think even that is is that’s like kind of an understated I think under appreciated thing because you know like remember when USC came out and I remember looking being bro these guys are nuts to go in there to do that but once you learn even just some Jiu-Jitsu just some Jiu-Jitsu that what you see like them fighting in the UFC and stuff like that’s I could do that yeah you yeah and actually that’s one of the reasons why I started I started Jiu-Jitsu I didn’t start jiujitsu I wanted to be a fighter so I trained in MMA first and before training that I would have thought you’re completely insane to do that like you got to be like kind of crazy person but once you have the train you see okay you know it kind of just turn on the lights you see like okay I see all this stuff you have just a just a vast understanding rather than all you see is Knuckles and blood and arms breaking and stuff all right next question Joo good evening in a leadership position is it okay to take or ask for suggestions on solving a task or is it okay to take suggestion s that stray from my initial plan yes yes and I hope that this that would made you decide to ask this questions because you just like found out about the podcast or the book or whatever because this is this is something that absolutely anybody that kind of listens will would say yes abs absolutely you’re in a leadership position you should definitely ask for suggestions take suggestions share the planning let other people let many brains be smarter than your one brain that’s what you want you want to utilize the brain power of your team now the reason you’re asking this question little bit scary a little bit of a red flag the reason you’re asking this question is cuz you’re afraid of what it’ll look like if you have to ask hey guys I’m not sure how to do this or you’re afraid of of what it means that you’re going to look that you’re going to look weak you’re going to look like a week leader yeah or inexperienced that’s yeah you’re inexperienced that’s your insecurity that’s making that happen don’t be insecure don’t be insecure because the open mind and the asking for suggestions and the taking suggestions it actually makes you look like a better leader I know that sounds crazy it actually makes you look like a better leader when you say hey you know what Eko we got this problem solve not 100% sure how to tackle this one can you give me a hand can you give me some suggestions here that doesn’t make you say oh Joo doesn’t know his game he’s an idiot no because oh man joo’s humble he’s looking for input he wants to work together as a team so yes absolutely ask for suggestions take suggestions have an open mind disregard your plan if your plan wasn’t good I’m not just going to hold fast to a plan because I’m the one that fought of it that’s not good leadership at all MH don’t do that open your mind yeah yeah and asking for um asking for suggestions help and this kind of kind of what you said already is um it it helps with making everyone feel even more involved Oh you mean it spreads the ownership throughout the team indeed Echo Charles yeah and indeed that improves I know as like if if you know you’re the leader whatever and the leader was asking me for my input and I gave it to him and you know and he enter man I would feel just that much more valuable part of the team I’d be more enthusiastic now right now who’s going to work harder on a project you when I come in and say hey can you give me a hand how do you think we should do this and then you come up with a suggestion and you start working on that plan you’re going to go a lot harder than if I come in and say hey here’s what I want you to do follow my instructions as soon as you come up to an obstacle and I’ve all I’ve told you to do is follow my instructions as soon as you come to an obstacle you’re going be like ah you know what hey I need this isn’t working right right whereas if it was your plan you come up to an obstacle you tackle that thing mhm you get after it that’s what happens Y and you know you’re saying like sometimes where you know as as a leader you might be reluctant to ask for suggestions cuz you might come off like any experience or something like that um if you need a suggestion and you’re like oh I don’t want to sound like that or whatever and you say you know whatever I’m just going to go ahead and move forward anyway you know and not know the best way to do it man you’re going to look dumb and you know how like we talked about this before where if you don’t know what you’re doing but you’re acting like you know what you’re doing that’s transparent man you’re way more transparent than you think and that goes pretty much with everything you do it’s like name droppers you know when people like Drop names they don’t really think that people are going to pick up on it but oh my gosh you smell that thing from one mile away that like tonight I was like well you know Jo me were kicking it exactly we see what you’re doing hey it’s been 26 podcasts and I haven’t talked about I haven’t done much name dropping J JT Joe you’re the first one name dropping you should say Joel tutor cuz you could be talking about JT Torres oh no I’m talking about Joel another Jiu-Jitsu guy and I guess I Dro Jeffy Glover’s name but those guys we Dro Greg Train’s name too you know what I mean we drop we drop everybody like everybody that we train with we we drop their names but just no one knows who they are right yes like Andy or big Eric I mean we we talk about these guys well technically that wouldn’t be named dropping though technically like name dropping I well then again but what if I said hey I was training with big Eric tonight and he did such and such yeah see if it’s but but I actually was training with de tonight well yeah it depends on the context you’re trying to add if you’re trying to add into the story the fact that I know this guy that therefore it makes me hi or cool like this guy or on his level whatever or associated with him so I’m cool whatever that’s the name dropping but if you’re just trying to paint a more accurate picture of your experience or your story or whatever but the fact of the matter is like I was training with Dean tonight right you know yeah see so it added context to the story but how you said Dean and then you went you kind of reverse came back to said Dean L that’s name joking nonetheless the point is if you start carrying on you know you don’t know that you need suggestions and you say you know whatever I’m just going to move forward by they’re going to smell that on you that you’re you’re wh like that yeah I’m laughing because I’m thinking of name dropping right now it’s true that the point there is you’re a lot more transparent than you think like a lot of people and some people you keep using transparent in its in its the the way that the business Community uses transparent right now they use it in a positive way like hey look we’re just going to be completely transparent on how we’re doing this you’re using it in a in a little bit of a negative way like hey I can see through your your crap here yeah yeah and and I tend to use it in both like I I to make bipartisan kind of kind of thing bipartisan I like that I read that learned it actually got to Seinfield but nonetheless yeah they they’ll see you right through that if you need s suggestions and that’s on top to add to the fact that all this other stuff that it makes the team feel more valuable it’s a more it’s a better overall way to to be there’s no doubt about it no doubt by the way in case you’re wondering the best military planning units whether it’s the SEAL Teams whether it’s the army that I work with or whether it’s the Marine Corps the more open they are in their planning taking suggestions from throughout the chain of command the better off they do period end the story I should have just answered with that and we could have moved on that’s the way it works next question this is a question SL clarification could you elaborate on flanking my impression was that it meant to move around to attack from the side instead of head on but as often as it comes up on your podcast I get the impression there must be more to it or at least some interesting nuances I guess there’s not that much more to it I mean a little piece of it was you want to distract him a little bit to the front and then you want to flank him that’s about the only additional information that’s needed to understand what flank is flank is yes you you attack you instead of attacking head on you attack from the side or sometimes the rear and I’ll tell you just to point this out for anyone out there that’s either in the military or in law enforcement and you’re going to flank and you’re going to go to the rear just remember that on a large scale it works because you have distance where your Weaponry won’t impact friendly lines but if you surround someone or you come from the rear of of a let’s say a small Target building or a situation in a with a open environment but you’re surrounding an enemy just don’t forget that when you surround an enemy now you’re cutting off your own fields of fire so that’s why you shouldn’t do that you should just stick with the flank where that way you can still keep shooting and keep your fields of fire as open as possible I just wanted to throw that in there but that’s that’s what it is military terms it means you know you’re attacking the side you’re attacking the weak point which is generally the sides now it’s the same thing obviously in Jiu-Jitsu you don’t attack what they’re defending you know you attack their neck attack their neck attack their neck they forget about their neck and boom you flank them and get their arm Greg train said that to me tonight he he was like oh that was a little flank he says to me Greg train so did I just name drop what if I said Dean lisst said it that it would have be a name drop if you said Greg train told me that while today while I was hanging out with Dean Dean list that would have been a name joke all right I won’t do that so but then you get so now you get flank and we’ve talked about this before when you when you’re talking about dealing with people then yes you you don’t want to attack where people are dug in you you don’t want to attack what they are defending when someone has a strong point of view that they’re married toh don’t attack that it’s someone has a big giant ego don’t attack that flanket may maybe even just give a little bit of massage to that ego to distract them and then sneak from the flank with your idea and you put it in there if if someone’s got a plan that they’re defending hardcore don’t attack the plan come up with a little way to augment the plan a little twist on the plan that they already have so you’re accepting their plan but you’re putting your spin on it and that way they accept it because it’s part of what it’s part of their plan so it works so uh once again don’t beat your head against the wall 47 times just flank real simple that’s all it is yeah so and a lot of times it’s it’s a figurative thing yes so well obviously and and there’s like all these little sayings he who flanks first wins and flank or be flanked there’s one more there’s a million of them but win and doubt flank yeah there’s all these little things but the but the great thing about it is also just mentally okay if we’re trying to solve a problem and we’re just thinking one way of the problem when you get stuck in that way flank when you come up to a when you come up to an obstacle flank yeah when you get a resistance and you can’t figure something out flank yeah that’s what I’m talking about just always have that in your head I’m always doing that emotionally dealing with relationship scenarios mhm you got your your relationship your wife she’s dug in on something don’t us tack that thing flank is that kind of like um you want to go to train Jiu-Jitsu but You’ gone like a bunch of no no no you want to go to Taco Tuesday or something I don’t know wherever you go and you know it’s her birthday steak Saturday yeah steak Saturday so you buy your wife flowers the day or two days before right yeah instead of being like I’m going to I’m the man I’m going cuz I said so you buy her the flowers you flank them and then when that day comes you have the quote unquote opportunity to see some friends just a quick one one night she she’ll remember those flowers cuz she’s on the on the on the you know the distraction so to speak you distract herly you flying through or like on Jurassic Park you know those the Raptors you you ever seen Jurassic Park I have it was quite some time ago so okay so it was about dinosaurs yeah yeah so the T-Rex the T-Rex can’t really see you that good so you just remain still you if you remain real still he can’t really see you cuz he sees movement but the Raptors they’re they’re these like they’re little me mini T-Rexes they flank though don’t they they flank so one of them’s like messing with you like engaging you and you think okay I’m not going to move or maybe I’ll move or whatever and then the other two get you and then they enjoy you as their meal that’s a flank it’s a preh doubt flank get that mindset it’s a good mindset to have I think you’re right the flank next question at what point do you turn off the manipulation tactics with people that you work with or don’t you so this picture this this question I actually pulled this from a friend of mine mhm not a good not not someone I’ve known for a long time but someone that’s a a guy that I know he doesn’t know me well enough but he knows well enough to ask me this question sure right and he actually sent me a text he’s like you know I’ve been thinking after listening to your podcast are you just manipulating people all the time yeah and that’s it’s a legit question right I have that question sure yeah even Ekko has that question so I obviously have talked about leadership and influence as manipulation cuz that’s what they are right if I’m trying to get you to do something you could say I’m leading you but you could also say I’m manipulating you okay and the difference to me and i’ pointed out this difference before the difference to me is that if I’m trying to do something that’s going to benefit you or benefit the team then that’s leadership or that’s influence if I’m trying to get you to do something and it’s going to benefit me then that’s manipulation I’ve talked about that before so that being said I I am not running around in full manipulation mode all the time I’m not I’m not constantly sitting there trying to to plot plot and and make people do things I will say this though I am generally conscious or aware or detached enough that I can see my interactions with other people from a good enough distance to see how I’m affecting the situation so it’s there it’s there you know I’m aware of it I do have a couple friends not many where I’m just like completely unfiltered some of the times some maybe even most of the time but with most people like I said I’m at least aware of what I’m saying and what I’m doing and how it’s being received it’s modulated though and I’m not like I said I’m not sitting there manipulating everyone that I meet and and the fact of the matter is the reason is most of the time I don’t care not that I don’t care about them but I don’t I’m not I’m not I have no reason I am not trying to do something with this person I’m just interacting with the person and I like to interact with different people and I have I get along well with a lot of different types of people from straight laced like religious people to freaking outlaw bikers to Surfers to to alcoholics to to Fitness freaks I mean I’m I’m friends with a bunch of different people and I’m definitely not sitting around trying to manipulate them I’m trying to enjoy and I I enjoy the various personalities and sort of decisions and lives that people had I learn from them not trying to manipulate them I’m actually trying to learn from people most of the time not manipulate um but you know when I do get in a team setting or a business setting or a relationship setting where now what we’re doing is an interaction of humans then I definitely will be thinking about how my actions and reactions are affecting the situation and and I will tell you this I’m generally only doing it for good right right I’m not trying to get things from people I think you would be one to say like yeah I’m pretty generous with what I’m trying to do with my life and and with helping people not that I find myself to be like some some healer or some benevolent person that’s running around I’m not I’m not trying to say that but I’m generally when I’m in inter if I’m interacting with someone enough that I’m in this mode I am trying to help them right I’m trying to help us that’s what I’m trying to do so if this is manipulation to try and help people and try and help whatever it is I’m doing with other people to move in the right direction if that’s manipulation I’m guilty right yeah and you see you kind of mentioned that too where you’re just you’re using the word manipulation kind of yeah I use it where most people don’t like to say it right right most people say you know what I I really like to influence my friends and move them in the right direction yeah well what is that doing yes that’s manipulating yeah so if you look at the the definition it’s to handle cunningly that’s what manipulation is oh nice yeah well there’s another definition in there too but I think that’s a more General broad yeah but I think the generally accepted meaning of the word manipulate is a has a negative connotation for sure and and it is rightfully so because it generally when you say it you’re talking about oh Joo is really manipulating Echo so does that mean oh joo’s trying to get stuff from EO he’s trying to he’s trying to do stuff for his own benefit whereas if I were to say you know Joo he’s been hanging out with Echo lot man he’s really having a good influence on him yeah well guess what that’s cool oh everyone’s happy now but what did I really do I really manipulated you right I really made you act a certain way I led you I manipulated you yeah so again I I mean maybe I need to stop using the word manipulation but I always the reason I like to use it cuz I know it I know it makes people think yeah I know it makes people see leadership for what it is with leadership you’re trying to get other human beings to do what you want them to do that’s what you’re trying to do now in the the best form of leadership you’re trying to get them to want to do what you want them to do and in even better form of leadership you’re trying to get them to do what they want to do and it happens to be what you want them to be too to do too collectively sure that’s the goal y but all of those means I’m trying to get you to do something yeah and whether we want to call it leadership or we want to call it influence or we want to call it inspiration or we want to call it manipulation it’s the same thing the only difference being in my mind when I manipulate something I’m trying to help myself and I don’t do that right I’m trying to help myself yeah manipul through other people yeah it sounds like that it’s helping yourself at their expense you know exactly that’s manipulation and influence is even more broad I think even goes outside of manipul just cuz influence you can passively influence someone you can just hang around you can passively manipulate people too yeah yeah yes you can you can absolutely passively manipulate people like and not know you’re doing it kind well no you can do it by not doing something oh yeah yeah that’s like passive aggressive manipulation yes but like influence let’s say we’re just cruising and we’re hanging out you’re not telling me or asking me or whatever to do something you’re just being you and I’m like joo’s so cool man let me let me let me roll at my SK like ja does you know that’s influence that’s I wouldn’t call that manip that wouldn’t be manipulation yeah but what if I intentionally was like you know what I really need to get I really need to get Echo to do X and here’s what I’m going to do I’m going to show him I’m going to leave yeah yeah so and and really isn’t so that being said isn’t ding D ding d d being polite isn’t that a low form of manipulation Absolut like if I if I say hey would it be possible for you to you know grab that chair for me what do you mean would it be possible we know that’s possible I’m an adult we know it’s possible I know what possible means why did you say if possible why did I say that because I want you to feel good about not be defensive you want to feel good you want you want to feel you know that’s like absolutely is it’s interacting with other people right so you have to show some form of if we want to use the word manipulation which we do obviously um it’s yeah you’re always doing so in a way it’s pretty rare you’re going to turn it off yeah really yeah really and so I guess to answer the question once again do I ever turn it off not really am I walking around trying to manipulate people and get them to fall under my spell of Destruction hell no I’m just a normal guy that’s interacting with people on a regular way and when I’m dealing with people in an interactive situation I’m aware of the way I’m acting and how it affects the situation that’s it and you happen to be pretty effective I I in a positive way though how you turn out like if it’s for the goal of the collective right right it’s not a not a malevolent it is not all right so really the answer to the question is not really that’s the question answer the question right I like the way you put that all right we got what one more yeah let’s we got time for one more Joo how do you stay motivated and how do you motivate people when they start to slack now motivation is it’s kind of a strange word because it doesn’t really mean what we think it means we think it means that we’re fired up to do something we think that it means we’re eager and passionate to make something happen and we think that somehow we should just be able to turn on that eagerness and turn on that passion but we can’t because you just can’t turn on passion you can’t just turn on the desire to execute a task just doesn’t work that way and honestly that isn’t even what motivate means motivate doesn’t mean to yell and scream and encourage no to motivate actually means to provide a motive a reason why so to motivate someone is to explain to them why they’re doing what they’re doing how it will help them where it’ll take them why they should continue to work and to struggle and to fight and when you need motivation yourself don’t look for someone to scream and yell don’t look for someone else to give you motivation look at yourself look at yourself and remind yourself why why you are doing what you are doing remind yourself that this struggle this temporary pain this fight this fight that you’re in this is what will make you stronger and faster and smarter and better and then with that motivation go forward Into The Fray Into the Storm Into the heat of the battle where Victory is forged and I think that’s all I’ve got for tonight so thanks to everyone for listening and supporting and if you want to continue this conversation or ask questions or give us feedback you can find us out on the interwebs on Twitter Echo Charles is Echo Charles and I amjo willink we’re also out there on the Facebook and even Instagram it’s true and thanks to everybody that makes this podcast happen and who is that Echo aside from you um on it of course and if you’ve been living under a rock as they say um and don’t know what on it is it’s uh where we get Alpha Brain which helps you uh think and memorize stuff and whatnot nutrients for your brain anyway um was it jod saying that he takes shroom Tech yes I think it was it was the kick nuts I think I already said this he was texting me he said I want that shroom Tech he said I guess he used it it was dope cake nuts getting a shroom Tech on high-intensity stuff uh for a long period of time anyway um on it is the supplement company so go to onet com and you get 10% off all supplements that’s the only ones I would recommend really well yeah and I’ve tried some other ones before um anyway and then before you do Amazon shopping if you want to click through the link on Joop podcast com you can support that way or Joost store com right or Joost store com and speaking of Joo store yeah before you shop on Amazon if you go through Joo store you can shop on Joo store if you like the shirt we have shirts we have a new one out too um but yeah if you think those are cool shirts get one the new and outs know the darkness know the darkness see no one’s even going to know what these things mean unless you’re one of us right you’re not going to know people are just going to be asking you what are you doing why you wearing that I can barely read it you say don’t worry about it yeah and I I’ll say this where where I don’t know if I told you this before but um like the ideas behind the shirts they’re not just like random o that looks cool on a shirt or whatever they do have like inside meaning you know like discipline equals Freedom right so that that was your thing like originally before you even started podcast you were like when you said that I was like H that doesn’t make any sense and that’s what you said you said at first it doesn’t make any sense and I was like yeah doesn’t make thinking in my head does but then when you explained it I was like dang that’s that’s kind of that’s that’s deep it does make sense yeah it does make it makes perfect sense actually indeed but it is one of those things you know that’s kind of where so okay so that makes sense if you don’t know what it means all it is is yet another shirt with a little saying on it that’s all it is if you don’t know what it means same thing um with your head that says good and the good is backwards right all these shirts are for you they’re not for like hey everyone look at my cool shirt even though there it can have that effect but that’s not what they’re they’re made for you you know yeah yeah so when you’re looking in the mirror it says good then you can you can read it it’s backwards you know so the darkness shirt if you look at it’s black on on a black shirt you can barely see it but it’s that’s what darkness is man you can barely see it but you know that that Darkness there look at the design yeah if you look at the design of the back it’s a we’ll just say it’s a dark scene I’m just going to say that but it’s black- on black so you can’t unless you kind of know and you really look at it you know if the shirt means something to you you know then it’s going to mean something so you’re making shirts that actually you got to be one of us yeah you got to be on the inside you know it’ll have that extra layer what’s up but hey man if you you just think it just looks cool hey do you man do it anyway there you go that’s how you can support if you want awesome so that’s everyone that makes the podcast happen and the actual people that make the podcast happen is you all listening to this podcast you’re the ones that make it happen that ask the questions that write reviews that give us feedback and let us know that you’re getting something out of it so thank you for listening and for going out into your part of the world and motivating yourself and those around you to get up and get after it and until next time this is Joo and Echo out