this is Jocko podcast number 75 with echo Charles and me Jocko Willick good evening echo good evening we have shared the in communicable experience of war we have felt we still feel the passion of life to its top in our youth our hearts were touched by fire that’s a quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes Supreme Court Judge a lot of people know that but they may not know Civil War soldier served with the 20th regiment of Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry saw action all over the place Peninsula Campaign the wilderness he was wounded at the Battle of balls Bluff also wounded and Antietam and also wounded at the Battle of Chancellorsville so I think it’s safe to say that he knew and understood war and that quote right there is from the beginning of another book about another man that new war major dick winters now we’ve covered dick winters before his book on this podcast number 17 beyond band of brothers great book lots of lessons learned but there’s another book which is called the conversations with major dick winters life lessons from the commander of the band of brothers and it’s written by a guy named Colonel Cole C King seed who was friend dick winners and who actually was the co-author behind that book beyond band of brothers so what’s cool about this book is it really parses out some lessons about leadership in a conversational manner with dick winners the things have you thought and the blessings that he learned which I mean when you get an opportunity to learn from someone like this you know what I do I just be quiet I listen and I learn or in this case I read and I learned so this is also the guy if you haven’t seen this series on HBO Band of Brothers just go stop and just go watch it it’s I don’t know what it is like 12 to 12 episodes they’re all awesome if we ask me all the time what’s realistic war movies that one Band of Brothers and then the Pacific all both HBO series they’re both phenomenal and I recommend you watch it you’ll learn a lot about dick winters on that and then the guy that plays dick winters does a great job and the way they tell the story and the realism and all that it’s just an awesome series but here we can learn not interpreted through a movie but actually from the man as you spoke it so here we go taking it back to the book right now from dick winters d-day was my first time in combat so right there let’s just talk about that for a second your first time in combat what’s your mission d-day one of the largest military operations of all time that’s your first day in combat get some back to the book I was mentally prepared and felt that I had done everything necessary to prepare myself for this precise moment and you never know if you will measure up as a leader until the minute arrives when you face the enemy for the first time baptism by fire is a soldier sacrament there is always doubt hopefully in combat you perform as you train so I can’t imagine that baptism by fire d-day again get get some sense of another good movie Saving Private Ryan the opening scene of that is the same thing that’s that’s one of the most intense parts of a movie ever is the d-day when they’re hitting the beaches it’s crazy to watch but watch it because it’ll give you a feeling for what Nick winters is talking about just imagine all these preparations that you do you’re getting ready and guess what here it comes little mission called d-day now they all BAM that was their initial operation was during d-day but then they fought all over the place and again we cover this in in beyond band of brothers but one of the most intense parts of their campaign was at Bastogne so even though d-day was hard things didn’t get easier once d-day was complete as much as I’m saying oh yeah d-day was crazy guess what it wasn’t even the hardest part for them mmm things got worse back to the book most of the soldiers and Easy Company also felt that Bastogne was the most challenging month of the war Staff Sergeant bill Guarnere later claimed that he had been scared before but he was absolutely petrified at Bastogne from my perspective Bastogne was the most miserable place I’ve been in my life I was wet through and through and naturally being a paratrooper I didn’t have a change of clothes no blanket nothing and it was a cold son of a gun things were all snafued walking around in the black of night not knowing where we were exactly where everybody else was houses burning civilians crying wringing your hands and behind every bush a perspective enemy we took our greatest number of casualties during that campaign Easy Company was never the same after Bastogne we lost so many because we lost so many veterans who had fought in Normandy and Holland Joe Toye bill Guarnere buck Compton Don who blur and many others so this is this is where I started thinking okay leadership lesson learned right here I operated the battalion command post that was situated approximately seventy-five yards from the main line of resistance you might not think 75 yards is consequential but it gave me the opportunity to think things through and divorce myself from the chaos surrounding the front line and to make calm rational decisions under pressure that is the toughest challenge for any leader so obviously we’re talking about the attachment here and I’ve talked about the fact that in order to detach you can move off the line like six inches I’m not kidding in a smaller group you know in a co person he’s talking about a battalion so they got hundreds of guys so 75 yards is more appropriate but if you’re running a smaller unit like one company or maybe a platoon you got thirty forty guys if you move back off that firing line six inches a foot maybe you know maybe three feet or six feet you just step back and you get yourself out of that firefight where you can look around that’s what you’re going to be able to do you’re going to be able to detach yourself from the chaos and then mayhem and make calm rational decisions under pressure yeah that’s such a big deal like where when you do that when you detach and then you can you know you have a clearer vision and a lot of times the answer or solution to some big problem is just so simple remember that story you’re telling at the muster where you know your your guys had an injured man yeah so he could participate but when to come along so you watch from the outside and he’s like why don’t they just would you step back in few laughs yeah why don’t they why don’t they get online and people left and whatever the call was so the story is there was a guy that actually he was a delta platoon commander into you bruiser he took over my position he took over the to you bruiser commander yeah and then I was running the training so once I was running the training you know now I was overall making things happen and he was going through the training a different block of training and he broke his neck broke his neck and thank God he didn’t hurt his spinal cord but he broke a vertebrae in his neck so he had to wear one of those big crazy neck braces and he couldn’t actually do the physical training wasn’t allowed to barely wait for a certain amount of time but you know luckily he was able to keep his job because he was very experienced and so we were going through the land warfare portion of training and I said hey man you know I know you can’t participate but come out with me you know come out and check it out and you know you can see your guys you can watch how they perform and you can you know teach them some stuff and learn from from what happens so cool he comes out and he’s actually one of my you know one of my best friends so of course we shouldn’t hang out anyways Dreamz is all about so you know of course we has a chance to come out and hang out with me the desert for a few weeks it’s going to do it so we we get out there and and you know you’ve heard the stories about the training that I ran it was really hard and evil and crazy psychotic and we’re doing that you know we got we in that case we had these really high speed laser laser tag system and you’ve got guys pinned down you got explosions going off you got just total mayhem going on and his guys kind of froze up and they’re all pinned down in this little sort of ravine valley type thing and I got guys I got my guys my opposing force so the seals that are pretending to be bad guys pretending to be moves they’re all up in the mountains shooting down on them and killing everyone and his guys there’s leadership is just kind of frozen and they’re sitting there not doing anything and you know he said to me hey can I help them and I kind of thought about it from it I go yeah go ahead yeah go give him you know tell him what to do give a prompt any and he just you know goes down to the leader one of the leaders and says hey get on line and peel left and so the guy looks at him and what does get on line mean just it’s an organizational movement where all your troops are pointed in all different directions just boom you take contact right on line and that means everyone is going to basically face in that direction if you get a couple guys that are doing rear security a couple guys are doing flank security but everyone is now oriented in the same direction and in the next call that comes is peel left boom and they’re all gonna start moving you know in a direction that’s going to get them out of this immediate threat so he tells he kind of says the guy hey get on line peel left so the guy looks at him and he just yells out get on line peel left and then everyone repeats that command and then everyone does it and within a minute they’re they’re home free it literally took like one minute once I made a decision yes so and then so they get out of there and he looks at me and he goes he goes a pan it’s so easy when you’re way up here now way up here to put it in perspective was or feet behind these guys that’s all it was it wasn’t like we were up on some mountaintop yeah an incredible view no we were we were there we were standing next to the guys and we were a little too elevated because they’re laying down and we’re standing up but it’s it was not inconceivable that you wouldn’t have the same perspective if you just step back and maybe you shuffled over a little bit and he says it’s so easy when when you’re up here mm-hmm and I said bro you remember when we went through training and he says yeah and I said it was always like this for me and it was I was I would always just put myself back just enough to be able to see what the solution is yeah so yes this detachment that he’s talking about and again in a battalion situation where you’re going 75 yards and a head in a business situation you know I actually see people do this you’re in a you’re in a meeting and there’s everyone around them around the table and there’s some problem that can’t be solved you literally step up and get step away from the table I just step back get away from the group they’re all mobbed up and group think everyone’s going down the same trail they’re thinking about the same stuff and there’s no new ideas because they’re all right there and there’s a vortex step away from the table yeah it’s same thing like step step away from your computer you know you get to some point where you’re just you don’t know where to go with some of you looking for some kind of a solution to a problem you just step back do that back see more yeah yeah and writing a lot of times they’ll suggest just skip to the end don’t worry about like just go to the end how do you want to end and then it’ll kind of open your mind up it’ll it’ll make you sort of forget about this problem right in front of you you know ya can give you kind of an overall view towards the solution that you know can be found yeah even in an argument with your wife or something like oh yeah well for sure that’s a big one for sure because when you yeah you definitely need to do it they’re entrenched you don’t need to get insurance and don’t do that alright and this part has been covered before on multiple occasions you know what we’re going to do cover it again little piece about discipline I did have a routine a routine that was instilled into me by Colonel sink at Toccoa Colonel sink insisted that officers always shave in the morning regardless of the situation he would say you shave every morning for the troops and if you want to shave every evening for the women that’s up to you I followed his orders because I realized that I had to set the proper example for the men I needed to get their attention let them all know that I intended to be around for a while and that the situation was not as bad as they might think I remember before 2nd battalion attacked Foy I had awakened early and shaved before I ate breakfast I later discovered that I had cut my face in multiple places and Colonel sink came up to check on the battalions readiness before the attack commenced he took one look at me and smiled I realized that he was laughing at me for shaving on that bitterly cold morning in hindsight shaving at zero dark thirty and freezing temperatures was pretty ridiculous I so you know we talked about this all time gotta shave got to maintain unmitigated daily discipline in all things but what’s cool but what I the reason I want to go over this again is because look at what he’s doing psychologically to the Troops he’s saying I know I had to set an example I needed to get their attention and make them realize I can’t work over here for a while and you know what I was gonna do it daily this is no big deal oh you’re worried about this stuff I’m still shaving over here I’m still waking up at zero four hundred shaving and and you’re worried about this stuff doesn’t work we’re good to go and you need to maintain the same discipline so that leading by example clearly is a big deal right there and maintaining that routine maintaining that discipline now speaking of discipline back to the book regardless of how disciplined an outfit is too much time on your hands too little activity and too much alcohol make a volatile combination so this book skips around a little bit but I put this in here because this is this is actually talking about when they were done fighting and now everyone was kind of idle he had some idle people on their hands but it related a discipline so I wanted to lock it in a little bit back to the book the battalion was no longer a combat unit but a garrison outfit it was more important to keep the troops gainfully employed to prevent boredom and monotony that would lead to a breakdown in discipline and when that occurs soldiers get careless consequently the first thing we organised were calisthenics and athletic programs you know I always joke about you know when people say they have some kind of problem and I’m oh do burpees right hey you know what a good solution to all problems are calisthenics can start doing calisthenics I like that I like that attitude well I vividly recall this is this is another reason why I put this in I vividly recall watching the men stripped to their waist or only wearing their shorts as they played baseball the sight of all those scars made me conscious of the fact that only a handful of men in the battalion have been lucky enough to make it through all four campaigns without at least one the scar some men had two three or even four scars on their chest back arms or legs keep in mind that this was after the war so I was looking only at men who were not seriously wounded next we set up rifle ranges and sharpened our marksmanship close order drill and trooper views were once again back on the training schedule I also established a schedule where each of our four platoons could rotate every 72 hours to a ski lodge and the Alps for rest and relaxation the purpose of using this retreat was to let the men get away from the routine of a military schedule so first of all when I got to SEAL team 1 and actually was it wasn’t when I when I first got there but there was a master chief of SEAL team one that it showed up in 1971 or 1972 to SEAL team one and till team one you know you had 150 guys roughly on the team at that time and they had had 34 killed in action in Vietnam at SEAL team 1 and wounded was I don’t know how many wounded but it was a lot but this this guy who’s a master chief when I met him and he was telling me that when he you know at the SEAL team you you know you PT in the morning just like a sports team you get you get to work and you work out and you that he’s a new guy right and he’s made me PT and then they go in the shower you know to wash off and it’s the same thing he’s like looking at every single guy’s scarred up wounded you know slashes on their chest bullet holes in him and he kind of was saying to himself damn you know this is this has been trial by fire for these guys but beyond that what he’s talking about here clearly is if you and I’ll tell you this especially with you know 18 year old 19 year old 20 year old males that have joined the military if you don’t find something for them to do productive they’re going to find something to do that’s not going to be productive it’ll be fun formed yeah it’ll be fun for them they’re gonna have a good time but it’s not there’s a chance they could be doing something better than what you’re letting them do now of course he talks about the fact that he’s given still give them time to go out to the ski lodge and and break away from it a little bit but you just got to be careful on how you do that you got to be careful on how you do that it’s it can backfire if you’re not careful and the first time I was ever kind of detached from a seal platoon Donna I was when I went to training the training department at SEAL team one will used to call training cell which sounds legit and it was hell Jen sure so at training cell the first trip I went on with a platoon because I was always in the platoon so the first trip I went on with the platoon and I was outside of the platoon and I was you you could say I was an instructor even though we weren’t running around calling ourselves instructor instructors we would call ourselves actually the CAD Dre I don’t know why is like oh yeah CAD Dre so I’m still yes I was never an official term it is an offender yeah cadre the training cadre so when we were at training cell because the instructors are kind of considered the buds instructors together the basic training and we didn’t really want to be buds instructors we were the contract yeah yeah so and neither I didn’t May this is just this is just by Otis when I take up cadre I call ourselves cadre and makeup training cell I wish I made up all those things but I just flowed into them as a lucky young new guy but actually this point wasn’t a new guy anymore wait but it’s true though right it’s not like you just gave yourself a title that one no no we’re the collar yeah oh training cadre yeah oh hey I need to talk to guys Nicandro here yeah that’s what that’s what we called ourselves it’s like well you know like let’s say you open a jujitsu gym and then you know you’re teaching people and then you’re like okay yeah I’m the instructor I’m and then you say you know what I like professor that’s better yeah I don’t know what is that it’s not that I didn’t make that no no they called you know four years and actually I think Roger Hayden talks about it when when he was on the podcast he was talking about when he was cadre so right it’s been around forever right that’s what I just like professor it’s like it’s true as long as a professor but it’s like it just sound it’s just better you know it sounds better so I go ahead go with that one just go with cadre yeah like none of you know what I was talking about oh so I was I was in the cadre for the first time and we went on a trip we went to a trip where they have good times to be had where we were there was a place where there’s some good training but there’s also good times and you know I picked this up from Carly Flanagan this new bridge I had really heard Wilding did you hear that if I go we’re just Wilding yeah with us I think it better term than the term that we discussed which was partying right well there’s good we have we were partying yeah I like wildest enter could that entails all kinds of other things little bit more a little bit more walk yeah Wilding out or what’s little while and I never really heard anything I never really heard it before he’s but when Harley said me clearly you know what it is yeah yeah and it’s in his book – we talked about Wilding so we went to this place with a seal platoon where there was good training and good Wilding to the end and I remember the first time that these guys you know we get there we work a little bit and then they’re gonna go out in into the town and I remember thinking myself they been in the field for a few days and they were all fired up young frogman and I was thinking myself how is this even gonna work like there’s no there’s no possibility of this going well and it did you know everyone fine but you just see all these guys they’re ready to you know they’re ready to explode now you’re going to they’ve been in the field they’ve dehydrated they’ve been in the field for four days or five all dehydrated and they completed their operation they feel good about it now you’re going to let them out in town yeah you got to be careful in those scenarios I’m going to put something yeah we would you know sometimes you just say hey look at you whatever you want tonight but we’re P team tomorrow at zero 700 so then everyone knows they they get wild to a point but they can’t yeah they got to put some kind of a governor some kind of a berry scenario here’s a cool piece where dick winners you know he talks known I’ve talked about this before but just just a piece about his view of what America was doing at the time back to the book the United States went to war not to conquer territory or to subject their fellow man but merely to liberate a conquered people from the chains of tyranny there is a certain nobility in all that today we are bombarded in the news media about how everyone hates America and how this country is deployed around the world World War two wasn’t like that and I’m proud to be a part of it so again I’ve said this a bunch of times you know we went there and lost hundreds of thousands of people in Europe and and in the Pacific Theater and we took nothing we only gave some thoughts on leadership from dick winters leadership leadership defining quality is honesty – honesty add fairness and consistency I was able to develop a sixth sense during the war that allowed me to size up a situation rapidly I can look at terrain and be able to see opportunities instead of challenges by leading from the front I believe I shaved a high degree of success so I thought that was a very very interesting combination honesty fairness and consistency mm you don’t hear those a lot about being a great leader I mean I always talk about the number one at your beautiful leaders is humility and I definitely believe that humility is important but honesty that’s clearly a thought and a concept of leadership that I think that misses a lot of people I think and we’ve talked about plenty of cases on the podcast here where we say oh what if this is going on and I say look you want to be honest with them you know so I’ve definitely said that before but I’m going to start saying it more because I’m learning a little something from dick winters today but you know yeah I remember we had a case where someone was saying hey I’m going to leave this job let me take another job and what should i do should I tell them should I not and we kind of went around and I’ll take a look to tell matures just say look hey this is what’s going on I’m going to be I’ve got a better opportunity I’m going to take it because and in the long run you’re in the long run that’s going to be you’re going to be better off if you’re honest with people and so obviously to think about this quality it’s something I’ve thought about but not as clearly as this as dick winters saying that’s the defining quality that’s obviously important something that I will talk about more now definitely believed it but we’ll talk about it more now if you’ve seen the movie Band of Brothers or the series Band of Brothers they do a good job of showing the beginning when they form up and there’s a guy and there’s a guy in leadership position called captain so bail and he’s not a good leader and they do a good job of portraying why he wasn’t a good leader in the series but here’s what Dick winners had to say about it back to the book captain Sobel commanded through fear and intimidation that is not how a leader should conduct himself sibel was not just unfair he was mean-spirited his attitude created a special bond with an easy company that allowed the men to identify with their platoons more so with in with the company which is more normal in most unit military units second lieutenants by their nature are clannish group so you got a company commander and then he’s got three usually three platoons underneath them and each one of those is run by a second lieutenant so the second lieutenants are the platoon commanders second lieutenants by their nature are clannish group some are more serious than others for the most part they wander around a military post as General Eisenhower once said in a rather aimless search for excitement easy companies platoon leaders of which I was one day our best to take care of our soldiers to soften so bells dictatorial behavior I lost all respect for our commander the day he announced the officers an Easy Company we will lead through fear not by example that’s just the opposite of any leadership principle that I could ever conceive is to lead through fear instead of example kind of like one when you’re dead well I don’t know about you’re dead but if you’re dead says or if you say to your kids do what I say not what I do you know that you heard that for sure for sure but it went if you want to put the fear onto that to do what I say not what I do or else or else yeah I’m gonna get out the belt for the kids down south they say yeah then when I got the swoosh get up a switch does you know not all the time but he said that he said switch where was he from that’s from Brooklyn New York they got no switches in Brooklyn New York I’m here to tell you uncle I they did go I they found this all wrong he made me go get my switch he said go get a switch I don’t know what that means by the way at this point okay little kid yeah go get and I’m from quiet I don’t say switch you know apparently other people say switch I didn’t know which mean I’m kind of more mad so then he had to brief you on what a switch was yeah this is anything I’m gonna be doing kind of like digging your own grave Ian’s away you know very 7:00 there’s absolutely yeah very similar yeah back to the book it made such an impression on me that I recorded his words in my diary under ordinary circumstances a junior company officer attempts to reflect his company commanders leadership style but easy company’s lieutenants found that they simply could not emulate the image of cibele and still live with themselves sibel had no friends within the company and few within the regiment at the end of each day he went one way and we tenets one another hoping not to run into him at the officer’s club he lacked confidence in his own ability as an implicit commander he was he was completely honest but he couldn’t read a map to save his neck his knowledge of tactics and fire maneuver was extremely poor so horrible situation and you know this is this is one of those things where he’s talking about how everyone known wanted to hang around him right and I’ve heard leaders say a good beaters not going to be like they’re not going to be loved by everyone and that there’s some truth to that right of course not not everyone’s gonna love you but there’s also a difference when no one likes you yeah you’re not doing a good job you’re not doing a good job at all and you know I I hung out with all my guys all the time you through the chain of command everyone to hang out let’s go let’s go look this hangout wasn’t running away from the idea to water if you escape yeah that’s that’s not a good sign yeah like one guy say I’m not here to make friends yeah that’s another classic right what any big friends know but I actually you know there’s I heard I’ve heard officers say that in the military seal officers I project look you you and now they’ll say like it’s not a popularity contest which is not clearly you’re going to make decisions that can be hard for people to swallow but to have people running away from you because they don’t like you as a human being that’s not a good position to be in you’re not doing a good job as a leader you need to reassess what you what you what you’re doing and how you’re doing it and this is kind of reflective of what dick winters attitude was back to the book Easy Company didn’t belong to me it belonged to the soldiers I was privileged to be a small part of its history officers and commanders in particular are merely caretakers that the paratroopers respected me is more than enough reward so there’s this totally totally different attitude right and there’s something weird that happens with the military you’ll hear a guy it’s a contradictory stay here’s a dichotomy you’ll hear a guy say my soldiers on my Marines and there’s two ways that that can be taken one of them is very positive my soldiers I am going to take care of my soldiers hey don’t come down here and talk to my soldiers like that or hey you know I need to make sure my soldiers have the gear that they need I need to make sure my Marines have and that’s a they mean that in the best possible way there’s another side to that which is completely negative which is these are my Marines meaning you own them meaning I’ll do what I want with them right and so I’ve seen guys on both sides of that edge and you can hear a good you can hear a good leader say my Marines you can hear a good leader say my soldiers are here good leader say my SEALs and think of it too positively and you can have a crappy leader say my soldiers my Marines my SEALs and you just think dude no no and so for and especially when you get dick winners who was you know universally respected in his in the military and definitely in his battalion and in his company and he’s a guy that saying look it was theirs that just tells you that’s where your leadership perspective should come from yeah I always felt that better way that instead of saying my one of the few things as far as feelings go because I I experience that a lot when people be like my this and that you know and I see what you’re doing it’s like you’re just the boss and the owner of all this kind of thing and okay I think but with it felt like and feels like with people like my soldiers you know there is a lot of room for like cuz cuz man these are my brothers I you know my guys but let’s say they’re talking about like something else like a big one like the bartenders I used to work with every once in a while you’d have one and say well I got this and you know my bar and when they talk to the customers you know they’re like hey what kind of bottle vodka DF because well my best vodka is you know this and that then they’d say my you know kind of like I’m the master of this whole domain here everything here is my and that I can bestow upon you kind of feeling and always kind of well they do do it definitely in the military with inanimate objects not being soldiers and Marines and sailors they do it with inanimate objects and if you learn that bootcamp or the you know they say why are you on my parade deck right yeah it gives you this feeling of like paying this guy’s really into this parade deck I mean you know where you do marching they say get off my parade deck yeah and it instills that kind of personal pride about something so again even that one can go both ways yeah I guess I guess it really you really have to understand what your intent is behind what you’re saying and you have to be careful I always say I feel subconscious about that and I’ll give you an example my gym yeah right my gym well when I talk about victory MMA which you know we have partners and it’s not solely my gym well but it’s my gym where I can’t train right but sometimes someone will say something and I’ll feel like oh where do you train you know and and I could say I train to my gym you know what I mean I feel like I’m real turn when I do that if I got all victory I’m a man fitness you know yeah oh gee mr Jeff Glover yeah that’s where I train and only do you own that place yeah I’m one of the owners you know wha but yeah you feelin like that my all you get to say interval what I’m careful be careful with that I always thought if you said our you know especially even in a bartender situation what we have it’s kind of like us as an establishment right now kind of thing I’m part of that when you say our you’re part of it you know so it kind of still puts that forward like I’m kind of giving this to you or offering whatever I’m taking some ownership but it’s like I’m not dumped off of this thing it kind of feels that way that’s what I always thought even if you like in your situation if you’re like you know someone’s like hey talk already trained say well at our gym you know yeah and it’s kind of ambiguous as well which kindness seems more humble it’ll work it’s like oh yeah you could be just a member but at least you’re part of that community you know kind of thing so yeah use our got it careful that’s what was like all yeah absolutely careful with my marine my soldiers and again sometimes that’s the most positive thing you could possibly say mmm-hmm these are my seals hey don’t come down here and figure to put my seals out the fields of bad situations not happening you know what I mean you’re protective they’re your brothers you know you have ownership of them but it’s nice in a positive way as opposed to look I’ll deploy my seals wherever I see fit to go put a put a red flag on that dudes face Yeah right back to the book I think of Easy Company every day we sustained a hundred and fifty percent casualties between the night that we jumped into Normandy and VE Day a hundred and fifty percent casualties Rosie that are wondering how you do that how you do that is you have people getting wounded multiple times and coming back to the front and when your replacements show up they get wounded too so you you know you’ve got whatever 150 people in your in your company and over the course of time people get wounded and leave and new people come in to take their place and they get wounded as well and that’s how you get up over a hundred percent of your people being wounded the result of sharing all the stress throughout training and combat has created a bond between the men of Easy Company that will last forever in a sense I don’t think I ever left Company E I may never again see the type of men in this outfit but to me Easy Company will always be my company in the sense that I will always remain a part of it to this day they remain my second family I still look at these men with great respect respect I can’t describe in words so there he makes it same thing like he feels uncomfortable saying mine he has to put a quantifier on it and then explain hey not in that sense but I’ll always be a part of it that’s why it’s more about leadership back to the book leadership is difficult to define they talk about leadership at West Point everyday leadership starts with honesty dedication and having a man who is dependable and fair if you never deviate from the standards that you established men have faith in you and you’ll be out front to set the example sergeant Talbert once told me sir I’d follow you into hell I take a great deal of pride in his remark so again we’re getting this leadership starts with honesty dedication dependable and fair so important so important being fair and you need to see that a lot when it comes to doling out punishment when people make mistakes are you fair you know does that person really deserve to lose their pay for 90 days or go on bread and water or whatever kind of punishment are going to bestow on someone yes sir and people know if things are fair or not people know what’s reasonable hey do you think that you know when people say I’m gonna make an example out of somebody for sometimes it’s for different reasons maybe like oh I’ve been letting people slack so I gotta I gotta make an example out of somebody to kind of reestablish the discipline type of thing or maybe you know as a boss or whatever you really don’t like this specific violation like you just read just one of your things you know so you can make an example for that reason do you think that that’s fair it can be but it’s also a touchy subject you tell me I personally think let’s say I’ve been given some slack and people been showing up a little bit late showing up a little bit late and I’m kind of like hey man you know we need to be a little more on time and then find me on a Thursday guy shows up late for the meeting and I say hey you’re suspended you’re grounded you’re you know you have to work this weekend I promise impart super-hard that doesn’t make sense right it doesn’t make sense and people say oh you know I’m not good not being consistent because people then they make however if I was to say hey guys check it out bill just walking in right now and I’ve been letting it slide and I’ll tell you what this is where it’s getting us we’ve been later later we start slacking here we’re gonna start slacking in other places we can’t afford to slack right now our missions too important from now on if we’re late if you’re late showing up to this meeting or you late to an evolution that we’re about to do I’m gonna drop the hammer hmm so don’t be late is that fair yeah fair warning explanation as to why that’s fair in my opinion just going off the handle and smashing someone because you want to make an example them that doesn’t make sense to me yeah I don’t like it I don’t do it yes that makes sense can it be useful yes if someone if there’s a clearly delineated expectation that’s been set and it gets violated for whatever reason and you are going to crush and destroy to set an example and actually we’re get to a point where he talks about that in here there is an example set and that has to send a message to everyone yeah that ya can do that I’ve done that with my family yeah hey here’s a line if you cross it you will remember you’re a very long time that you made a bad decision yes and my other kids when I’ve done that to some one of my kids that has made a bad decision they all remember all of them yeah they don’t want to make that mistake yeah it seems like you a little off the line no not at all like it how you said if you give them kind of ample warning where you kind of given the tools to make their own decision anything even if you are changing a policy or whatever you know harsher punishments all this stuff as long as yeah you warned them like how you’re saying that seems like fair and the huge one which I always kind of thought was if it applies to everyone you know like if if this violation this punishment for this violation applies to everyone sure it just happens to be this guy because he just happened he’s be the one he happens to be the one that committed the violation or whatever but this rule this policy applies to everybody yeah and also when you when you explain these things you don’t blame them if you notice even when I just said you know hey guys I bring back here you don’t say look you guys missed like I said look I didn’t make it clear why this is yeah and therefore you guys have been so you know I’ve been letting you slack you guys have been showing up late that’s a problem we can’t have that problem anymore so you just don’t start pointing fingers everyone yeah and then hammering those harsh punishments no not a good idea you can reduce it back to the book I believe that some men and women are born with the inherent qualities that make them good leaders writing to his son John who is a cadet at West Point in 1943 General Eisenhower once said the one quality that can be developed by studious reflection and practice is the leadership of men I agree with Ike leaders are not born leaders are made and they are made by solid effort and hard work so it’s a little contradictory in there because he says look some people are born with qualities that make them a good leader but you can learn to be a good leader I totally agree with that I’ve always said that some people have the qualities that make them a good leader naturally are they a lot of some of them right similar be really articulate some will be very charismatic very dynamic loud I have a lot of presence those are all characteristics that will differentiate in different people and if you have a lot of those you’re going to have a naturally easier time being a good leader now occasionally you get people that have some of those qualities but they’re idiots and those are the worst because they can get people to follow them even though they don’t know where they’re going yeah those are bad situations but the agender esting hard work studying right studying leadership I you know today I already learned something need to increase my focus on honesty as a leadership quality but yeah I’m always studying always learning and we all need to be that’s how we’re going to become a better leader and a lot of the studying that I did when I was growing up in the teams was just what I was watching and thinking about why these leaders were doing what they’re doing what is making them do this good leader why is why why does that why do we respond to that well bad leader why don’t you respond well to what he’s doing I wasn’t sitting there consciously thinking about it actually no in some days I was actually consciously thinking about it you know consciously thinking wait why is no one want to follow the how is he acting that we all want to walk away from him why is that happening and then when we get a good leader I say this why is this guy such a good leader mm-hmm so yeah I guess I did consciously do that and study not from books but from life to try and learn and that’s how you can become better here’s a little note too and and you want to talk about holding the line if you aren’t in good physical shape forget it you are not going to be a good leader well certainly in a military environment that is true there are there some civilian leaders that aren’t in the best shape yeah there are would those leaders be doing a better job if they were in better physical condition yes they would it’s like that that seeing that starting strength coach Roberto says I post I’ve never talked about it but I posted he’s talking about how physical strength is good and people that say that physical strength aren’t good he says you know you forget the exact quote but he’s basically saying I know physical strength is good and if you take someone that says the physical strength isn’t good oh and is it important and then you add a hundred and twenty pounds to their squat and then ask him how they’re doing now they’re going to be doing better they’re going to be doing better the more you can deadlift the better you’re going to feel you don’t feel worse when you can deadlift more you don’t feel worse when you can squat more you feel better yeah what why is that there’s a million reasons why confidence overcoming the challenge you’re actually physically stronger your mental clarity goes up so yeah of course be in good shape be in good shape if you’re worried about your health you’re not going to be able to focus on being a good leader and in the military or in any job where that demands physical exertion you have to be in good shape otherwise people are looking at you you’re falling apart you can’t be falling apart on patrol you can’t be falling apart during a during a combat swimming operation where you know you need to swim you need this win far you’re going to swim for four straight hours on the combat swimmer operation if you’re weak and you can’t do that you think your men are going to respect you mmm they’re not all going to answer that question for you yeah that kind of like the hockey coach he doesn’t even know how to ice skate you know there are coaches that have never participated in the sport that they coach and they’re good they’re I mean you can look at Greg Jackson is a great mixed martial arts coach he’s never been a mixed martial arts fighter yeah but he knows how to fight them you know yeah certainly does yes but he hasn’t actually fought so how can he be a good coach what about Duke Rufus he’s never fought MMA has he oh and I mean he’s not moving yeah we know he’s a champion kickboxer but how can he be such a great coach at MMA yeah because he can connect the dots and stuff like that and of course there’s you know there’s exceptions every but generally speaking and plus you talking about a little bit more of a broadening like a leader like who you gonna like follow yeah yeah I’m talking about coaches I mean you coaches are not participating anymore that’s why they’re coaching yeah so I guess those are really stupid examples yeah well first let’s just go because because you know Kosta motto with Mike Tyson obviously wasn’t getting in the ring with Mike Tyson right yeah but he’s a great coach or fantastic coach one of the most you know one of the most respected coaches of all time yeah and the results are a little bit more like recognizable like the less ambiguous like a leaders result close yeah and we’re look we’re looking at leaders in the field like leaders in the job that are leading a group to accomplish a mission right that’s different than a coach a bitch is outside the group yeah yeah and so we’re talking about someone that’s in the group yeah you got to be you got to be able to maintain you got to be able to stay with your team physically and you know it’s not like you need to be the best I was never the fastest guy was never the strongest guy but I wasn’t going to be falling behind right on a Patrol is I wasn’t in good shape that wasn’t going to happen yeah and the only way that doesn’t happen is you need to stay in shape how do you say and say got a discipline built yeah these questions answer themselves at some point maybe something like this podcast will just come on here and sit here into silence yeah good idea speaking of now this is this is a good that you were talking about this here is a heavy punishment handed out talking about Colonel Bob sinc who was the leader of the 506 parachute infantry regiment area back to the colonel bob sink certainly was one of the best he set high standards and never compromised on those standards after the paratroopers of the 506 a pair troop paratroop parachute infantry regiment earned their jump wings sink granted a 10 day furlough but cautioned the men to conduct themselves appropriately several paratroopers reported late for duty after their furloughs expired sink called another regimental formation and publicly humiliated one paratrooper from each of his nine companies they called out the name of the last soldier to report to duty and that paratrooper was marched in front of the formation under escort an officer stripped him of his unit patch forced him to unbless boots and then escorted him from the field what sink was saying was paratroopers may be elite but they had to follow the Army’s rules and regulations I liked that for some reason sink like me respected me he was always the man instrumental in getting me my next job so there’s a heavy punishment now that’s that’s a clear message being sent right clear message being sent and I bet Colonel sink at that time laid mean he’s got three nine companies so he’s got hundreds and hundreds of guys the hundreds and hundreds of guys and he’s going to make an example out of nine of them and he’s going to be a real clear example and that’s gonna leave an impression on a thousand guys you know in close to a thousand guys mm-hmm that might be worth it and he probably judged that it was worth yeah so interesting perspective yeah I guess the question is is that fair only the way I would say to the guys that got booted from the regiment I’d say their thoughts were that it was unfair I would say for the guys that remained in the regiment that realized that they had to maintain the standard that realized there was going to be no slack and that worked hard to make sure they maintain that and therefore were more prepared for combat that’s it was real fair right so bigger picture kind of thing it was kind of the martyr you know yeah that gives a real big picture thing and who knows what kind of behind the scenes we would have to get some details if we were really to cast judgment on that like you know maybe some of those guys were kind of slackers anyways yeah and the company commander was like hey dude yeah we don’t want this guy you know let’s get rid of this guy or whatever you know yeah and he only took certain members of the people that missed their furlough he seems that’s not fair he only took certain members or certain people that that missed their furlough didn’t take all of them yeah just the last one to report you know we don’t take that around here yeah it’s an interesting dynamic you know it’s an interesting dynamic but it’s definitely showing I I don’t know that unnecessarily we’ve done that I can admire some my my assessment I probably wouldn’t know yeah not not one guy from each company maybe like the two guys that grossly violated it I don’t think I would need to do nine yeah I’ll guess what Colonel sink did it’ll mess with girl sink and that’s a good thing little little kind of image for you to have don’t mess with Colonel sink don’t mess around in the battalion in the regiment we don’t play hmm another leader that he talks about here is McAuliffe back to the book what we liked about McAuliffe was that he allowed us to do our jobs you didn’t have a lot of interference from McAuliffe but with Taylor in command that’s another person he told you what you needed to do here he had to run everything you can’t do a good job if you don’t have the chance to use your imagination and creativity in my mind kayla was more interested in in impressing his superiors than watching out for his men Taylor was such a contrast with British general Montgomery so he talks a little bit Oh okay so first of all clearly decentralized command give people the clear field specifics on how to do every little thing let them get creative with them come up with a solution perfect boom we hear that over and over again why do we hear it over and over again because it’s right because it’s right that’s why we hear it over and over again now he talks about the famous British general Montgomery Monty who always gets portrayed a little bit stiff and a little bit British right and he says in here that the writers don’t didn’t know him didn’t see him on the battlefield didn’t see what he was like and here’s what he says here’s a dick winter said about Montgomery back to the book Montgomery was the real deal I saw him on a number of occasions and he always impressed me as a commander who lived the lifestyle that was beyond reproach for his staff to follow he set the example he addressed every division that was scheduled to participate in the invasion he called us together and had every soldier take off his helmet so he could see the troops better yeah props to Monty right going around and talking to every every single division and then said hey boys take off your helmets I want to see your faces before you all mm get props there’s this book a lot of this books about self discipline even this part right here back to the book self discipline keeps you doing your job without it you lose your pride and forget the importance of self-respect and the eyes of your fellow men pride keeps you going on this is what I feared I would lose the loss of the will to measure up to my men so once you say you know what I don’t care what my guys think anymore you’ve lost it right mm-hmm if I say look I don’t care what the guys think of me think of what a driving force it is to have your team looking at you and saying I’m gonna make sure these guys respect me and I’m proud of what I’m doing compared to I don’t care what anyone thinks to me anymore you can see when you can see what when this happens to people not just in the military or business organizations but in life yeah in life at a certain point you see a bomb in the street at a certain point that bum said you know what I don’t care what anyone thinks me anymore yeah I don’t care what my family thinks me I don’t care what the society thinks of me yeah of course I’m not talking about every single bump but a lot of them yeah hey I don’t care generally is the thing and as soon as you see that you can imagine that you that that’s just like a life thing right you know if you go through life and you don’t care what anyone else thinks which is a contradiction for me right because I’ll say all time like I don’t care what people think yeah but that’s to just to a degree like you and it’s obvious and just put a little bit of thought and you don’t care about what people say well as it appears you don’t care what people think on a superficial level you know on a profound level you do that’s why you’re you know that’s why part of your morality is like you know fairness doing the right thing all this discipline stuff it’s for you but in regards to social cues and all these things like that that’s beneficial to your success to function in the society yeah and I’ve said this before like about the SEAL Teams and me being in the SEAL Teams and I had this completely had this attitude I don’t care like for instance I don’t care what happens like I don’t care if I get fired I’m gonna do the right thing I don’t care I don’t care what they think of me and it’s the same thing at the same time there’s nothing that was more important to me than my reputation the SEAL Teams hmm I don’t want you know if if something was going to give you a bad rep like when we just talked about if you fall out of a patrol as a leader or as anyone like if you fall out of a shawl you’re going to no one’s ever going to forget it in the SEAL Teams if you’re too weak to do something you’re gonna be remembered by that forever and that I didn’t want that ever to be like Oh Jocko did this Jocko couldn’t finish patrol Jocko was a bad leader Jocko I didn’t want that to be the reality yeah and so therefore you work hard you stay in shape you do your best all the time yeah and that drives you yeah but at the same time I wasn’t saying oh I I’m concerned what my boss thinks of me so I’m going to act a certain way and I’ll try to do the right thing for the teams right way Jim say no like these guys these are all tubes those are fundamental things yeah no weird is a weird balance though to say look I don’t care if I get promoted but I care more than anything about my job you know to me and that definitely was my attitude that definitely was my attitude my whole time I was in the military look I’m I’m gonna do the best job I can I’m not doing it to get promoted I’m not doing it for that reason yeah but I am part of it absolutely doing it to have the respect of my peers and my bros on the teams right you rep being in a reputation you get off on your reputations everything in the SEAL Teams because it’s a small group of people you know you have an accidental discharge with your weapon everybody knows about it they’re gonna know about it forever if you if you remain on the teams for whatever reason after you have an accidental discharge everyone’s going to know it from there on out and it’s not fun that’s why we got Matson jacked up nicknames in the SEAL team because you’re gonna get nicknamed after your lowest point in your life the biggest mistake is what you’re going to get next named or your biggest yeah like there was a guy and I his nickname was Bush and he’s a great dude mm-hmm the nickname was Bush it had nothing to do his last name but anyways long story short would use a new guy and I knew him this is 15 years later I found this out he’s so he’d been in the SEAL Teams for 15 years I known him as Bush the whole time and he was parachuting brand new guy showed up the team they’re like hey you’re going jumping today okay gets in the aircraft jumps and he he lands through no fault you can’t even steer these Brown parachutes you can’t barely steer him he lands in a bush with like four right and I guess it looks pretty funny and from there on yeah what’s his name boy yeah so you’re going to get a name like that but that’s a that’s a really easy example because everybody knows hey that’s just funny there’s more of a funny thing if he’s something funny happens to you might get that nickname too like if you get pepper sprayed by the cops you might have the nickname pepper I like the direct it is yeah there’s no sense to play it around what else you gonna call some of the hits pepper-sprayed by the cops or their new guy you’re gonna call pepper call my tie or something wet I yeah you know cuz you guys get all water you do not have you’re not in charge of makin remember your guys that you thought to name was his name was Al yeah but it was ow yeah al 50 Cal not even his name my name is a big out 50 Cal yeah what are you it morphed yes awesome so that’s why you have this weird dichotomy that’s pulling at you is just to you’re looking at your your friends your peers in this in a leadership position it’s your men you’re looking at your men saying hey I don’t want to let these guys down I don’t want them to view me as weak yeah bad word but I guess it’s the word I’m looking for you know not that I not that I want to maintain the image of strength because part of maintaining the image of strength is by showing weakness right in like I said it’s all time hey I don’t know how to do this hey can you give me a suggestion I’m not talking about that type of thing I’m talking about we physical witness a physical and mental toughness or physical mental weakness right that’s a lot different than hey I don’t understand how to do something or it’s a lot different than humility you can you can want to show you can want to maintain strength but still have humility for sure yeah I know all kinds I mean I know tons of guys that are completely humble but they’re the toughest bastard you’d ever wanna know mentally and physically so I’m not talking about I need to be strong stronger than everyone no I’m not talking about that at all I’m talking about you physical and mental toughness you have to have and if you don’t have them as a leader could be problematic yeah watch out for it back to the book the big thing I derived from combat was the necessity of maintaining discipline disciplining our troops was discipline in our troops and getting the job done in combat so clearly disciplines a big part of what we’re talking about here gee I wonder why now this is talking another little aspect that you know I don’t talk about this a lot I think it’s inherent and a lot of things that I say but it’s not something that I don’t use this word a lot and again I think I need to use it more back to the book character revolves around doing the right thing all the time character implies daily choices of right over wrong the cadet prayer at West Point says cadets strive to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong and never to be content with a half-truth when the whole can be one that gets to the heart of character I would add that it is easier to do the right thing when everyone is looking it is more difficult to do what you should do when you are alone I like to think of character as every other virtue at the breaking point so character doing the right thing doing the right thing in all times doing the right thing when you’re alone yeah back to the book war doesn’t alter character war merely brings out the best that an individual has to offer unfortunately it also brings forth the worst in some men if anything war exposes the best and worst of those who are called the fight I know of no man who lacked character and peace and then discovered character in combat so I’ve said this same type of thing before especially any war you know we’d see on deployment is as pressure starts to build on people you start seeing people go into directions then that’s what we take this is their character would start to reveal itself they either get very big rise to the occasion or they would not and they go in the other direction and become the worse their character would become worse or their character better that’s what I’ve seen and the same thing you know we talk about people that have maybe have a hard time dealing with war a lot of times there’s some pre-existing issues that the war in flames right and then if you take someone that has that doesn’t have pre-existing issues or maybe has a positive spin on things that becomes more positive so it’s very and then there’s a bunch of people in the middle but some of the guys that I knew that really had a hard time they had issues going in you know they had problems some issues going in to the situation going into war and those problems get exacerbated by the pressure in the stress of combat so we need to watch out for that one and I think I think war is more of an amplifier than a creator I think it amplifies good character I think it amplifies bad character I think it amplifies issues and in either direction so it’s a it’s a it’s a powerful element to add into people’s lives this this big intense piece now one of the things that this led this book captures is these letters he kind of had a pen pal a female pen pal when he was a war her name is Deanna almond and one of the things that he so he’s going to capture these letters and some of the letters parts of some of the letters are published in here here’s one of them back to the book first and most important I’ve got my own conscience to answer to next my parents and then I am an officer in the US Army I am damn proud of it and with the rank and position I hold I wouldn’t think of doing anything to bring discredit to my outfit my paratrooper boots wings the airborne patch or the US Army good morale within an outfit is usually reflected by good conduct away from it that sounds like an idealistic high school kid I know but that’s it that’s how I feel so he took that stuff very very seriously and I remember I remember broken the dirt free war I was in my third Platoon and the new guys who are all my bros now I mean these are just mugs but they were new guys and we were the senior older guys right because we’ve been in the teams for like a couple years and something happened and we gave like a like a like hey guys don’t don’t ever make the platoon look bad like no matter what you don’t make the platoon look fat that’s not allowed mmm double tuned is comes first above everything and this one I just remember saying but then one guy made the platoon look that then he had to pay for it but that’s the attitude the attitude is like look you don’t make the platoon look bad you don’t make the team’s look bad we didn’t really we weren’t too concerned with the Navy back then we didn’t really even see like when I was that young and the SEAL Teams we weren’t even thinking about the big Navy we barely even recognized it we were in the teams it’s more it’s because like as as the teams became bigger and more prevalent we connected more with the big Navy when all the new guys in the studio when I was in the SEAL Teams as a young guy in the 90s we were pretty much on our own so I wasn’t a bit basically I wasn’t like sitting there thinking and you protect the reputation of Navy I don’t care I went now as I got older I did but back in the day it was like hey the platoon and and I was a team on a time and team one you know make team one look that what are you doing don’t make this platoon look bad you just did that yeah you now you have to pay for that mmm punishment will be delivered at this time and it was the unfortunate situation you know these things just happen to time to time so are we not going into what the punishment was that day the punishment I the punishment was I’ll tell you what the punishment was Jocko punishment the punishment was I am going to strike you two times in the face with an open hands that’s your punishment or we’re going to fight which one do you want that was the punishment yeah he and this guy was like I’ll take two – yeah and I like Roger that and it was a little bit more tension than that you know yeah fully that’s really then like bowed up a little bit yeah and I was like oh if you want to get it on we’ll get it on yeah and and you know it’s funny because these guys this group of guys who is they were they were all guys just trying to get after it and be good team guys but we were just crazy you know at this point and the teams was literally everything in my life so when I was like mad about disrespecting or making the platoon look bad it need like hurt me you know I was that crazy that I just didn’t want the platoon look bad yeah you know and you did something that made him look bad yeah it really bad me it really truly bothered me you made a man that made team one look I mean I had been there you know since I was a kid you know it was everything to me mmm and so when you didn’t when you made us look bad I wasn’t happy and not just I wasn’t happy because I was a jerk or I wasn’t because I was being a jerk at the time but talking to you guys you know years later doctors guys they’re like yeah that guy particulars like I hate it going to work I hated you guys sounds like yeah yeah I’m sorry and then they’ll be like but I’m glad it was like that because everybody has that feeling it was an old school like with the old breed know hey that’s the way it is this is we hold the line we don’t make the platoon look bad we make them look good we work hard that’s what we do it’s like a little game yeah that’s all it was yeah that’s crazy those two choices cuz they’re like they’re just different cuz some people would rather go do the fight because you know at least they they can’t go down swinging kind of attitude but the potential for damage is way more same but and then I agree with you and you can see where you can make a case for both of those selections but there’s also something cool it’s like I’ll take two hits to the face the open hand cool I’m a man I screwed up I think that’s the reason I respected it was because it wasn’t it was like yeah I did screw up right so then I’ll take it I deserve punishment leave it to me yeah and that was that yeah well then we move on no factor yeah technically the two to the face are is way easier because it’s way quicker you you know you know what to expect I mean unless you’re scared of like Oh hitting your head and dying or some come off they were opened and though they were open here yeah see so you’re not going to knock anybody out with open hand yeah well I’ll usually or not you know maybe I could I’m skinny but um yeah so a lot of that is like that how you say you were kind of building some tension with it it’s like that’s a big part of the punishment as well that’s psychological like torture story and and this also reveals my own personal immaturity right these are this is it like seriously this is when I’m thinking about it this is just an immature you know I was probably 22 years old maybe 23 years old but you know young and immature and not getting the best guidance not understanding things not understanding that I wasn’t helping build a cohesive unit not understanding that this guy’s probably thinking oh I don’t want to help him you know I mean it wasn’t he smart I’m not I’m not trying to say that this stuff was smart I’m telling you the reality of the way it was and the way it was in my head was hey this is my life yeah this your platoon I know it sounds crazy this seal platoon that we’re in is my whole life and I actually don’t care about anything else mind you this is in the 90s there’s no war going on I’m just a young crazy kid and the only thing I know and the only thing I care about is the SEAL Teams and you know you make the platoon look bad this platoon is my life and you just made us look bad and I can’t stand that and I don’t want it to be that way so young immature me what do I do hey this is there’s got to be punishment mmm you know and that’s kind of the attitude we had and there are some benefits to it because the you know it’s our wave I would love to go back and be a better mentor and be like hey man this is the mistake you made you know we need to make you know I would love to but you can’t you’re dumb I was a young dumb kid that was raised that way by the way as well that’s how we were raised yeah and there are some benefits to it and like I said even those guys that did platoons with me when I was quote-unquote an old guy even though we were nothing we’d never been to combat we were meaningless but we had a couple more years in the SEAL team so therefore you’re an old guy and the new guys are anyone with with no deployments which is actually pathetic in its own right because the term in the SEAL Teams being oh you’re a new guy that was some guys that were in Vietnam that you hadn’t been in combat yes and you’re a new boy you’re a cherry boy hmm so guess what I was a cherry boy for 17 years because I never shot my weapon at the enemy I didn’t been in combat until I went to my first deployment to Iraq so there’s actually from that perspective it’s embarrassing because here I was big I’m an old guy was an old guy I never been a combat before what am I talking about yeah but you you take what you had at the time where was this organization the SEAL Teams my platoon and again you can’t I can’t describe really how important the seal platoon was to me it was my won’t be pretty this great it was my whole life Ingle what I do when I woke up in the morning went in went into work worked out with my seal platoon mates what do we do then we worked all day what do we do for lunch we ate together what do we do at night we went got dinner what do we do after that we went to had drinks what do we do after that we hung out all night what do we do after that we went to sleep woke up and did the same thing at day after day that was my family mmm and you just have this this passion for your family and you it just meant is the most important thing in the world to me for my adult life but when you take that you put that on a you know young kid yeah and you know everyone’s like oh yeah Jacko’s he he’s a big reader I wasn’t reading anything back I was reading up the platoon handbook right I wasn’t reading I wasn’t reading her Shakespeare sure yeah I want was I doing in high school I wasn’t paying attention during high school I was wanting to be a commando I was running through the woods pretending I had a machine gun so you take that kid and you put him in a situation where the thing that he cares about the most has been scorns violated or scorned he’s going to try and handle it yeah the best of his abilities start slapping people I’m not proud of it but occasionally some people that slapped around yeah that’s how though you know you know when you’re basic young basic guy you can handle things in a young basic kind of way yeah yeah whatever it’s it’s caveman yes caveman scenario there you go and any other thing is and you know those guys that were in those early platoons when I was a collective set of quote-unquote leaders later they’re like yeah that was awesome so glad I got raised that way they’re proud of it yeah you know but at the same time you uh you you when I look back on it I know I was not a good leader right by any stretch yeah it’s kind of like when I look at my old videos you know at the time I like yeah they were dope you know but you’re like me you just know better ways now you know you’re just better now yeah you know I’m psyched 2021 yeah and then the other thing you got to be careful of is setting the bar like let’s say I was in the silicon right now and now I’m going to set the bar so high that I lose track of the lose vision of the fact that like hey the guy that I’m trying to convince right now is a 23 year old thing and the most important thing in his world is this is funny like I was talking to someone the other day I couldn’t remember what super to know what the phonetic letter of a certain seal platoon I was in a certain time I’ll look after he wants to that was yeah and to me at the time when we were in those symptoms that letter of that phonetic alphabet we were in alpha platoon that was it and now I look back and it’s like oh yeah what platoon was that because as I matured and as I saw the rest of the world I realized that even though the seal platoon is very important and certainly it’s the most important thing when you’re in it when you’re in a task unit or you’re overseas and there’s multiple people running around and there’s huge missions going you you hope your mind gets opened up yeah and you see more and this little thing that you used to be so engulfed in your head becomes becomes less that’s all there is to it yeah now I’m telling you guys this you there’s no better job like it’s the best thing in the world I’m sure you know I never served in a in a Marine Corps infantry platoon or in a in a Army US Army improving but I saw them I saw what they were like and they have that same you know bond that that you get from being in those tough units so there’s something very cool about that about being a grunt and which is what you are in the SEAL Teams you might think all the Special Operations or whatever you’re a grunt you carry a machine gun yeah and you do hard things that’s what being a grunt is you’re doing hard things you’re carrying a bunch of weight around those days love those days yeah all right so I just want to be back in the seal is so bad yeah kind of so fun so so awesome yeah so awesome so meaningful I would have fought you yeah yeah yeah it wouldn’t know what happened you know what would have happened I don’t know I don’t know Valley that was one of the good things about knowing a little tiny bit of jujitsu which I actually knew a little bit yeah that was enough yeah you gotta fight guys would cut you know with comes injures come what if you offer to fight them and they’d kick your ass you’re like dang my that backfired and here’s the thing they didn’t know any better all they thought was they didn’t I don’t think I ever said like I know jujitsu you don’t but it was just I was so confident like oh I actually know this and I know that I can choke this dude then they just said you know what this guy’s probably gonna kick my ass yeah and the weird thing is there’s probably guys a long way that could have kicked me you know some kid that wrestled in high school it all double leg boom yeah and now I’m slammed on the ground I getting punched in the head I don’t like it you know it’s it’s lesson not learned yeah lesson not learned I’m lucky that never happened so check all right here we’re talking about so I just was talking about this is interesting so I was just talking about mental strength and physical strength or here we go back to the book moral courage is a far rarer commodity than physical courage in that I agree with Hatton I have known many officers who were physically brave but who did not have the intestinal fortitude to organize the chaos around them those officers who were the most vocal about what they were going to do to the enemy often were the first to fall apart when the chips were down fear is not only debilitating but its existence also destroys the cohesion of a command it is the responsibility of a commander to identify the limits of courage break the paralysis of fear and motivate his soldiers to continue with the mission courage conquers fear I like just that that part and I don’t think I did this in helmet for my pillow there was a part in helmet for my total that I pulled out when I was talking to one of my seal buddies and I was because he listened to reason yeah yeah and I was telling someone part that I didn’t put in the podcast I sent him a picture of it from the book this little paragraph but it’s basically one of the instructors one of the drill instructors was all yelling about we’re gonna kill and blah blah blah and then he says yeah the next time I saw him we were in you know on island in the fight and he was getting taken away but after breaking down okay so this is what he’s saying here a lot of guys that are the loudest about what they’re gonna do to the enemy yeah yeah okay you’re talking a big game you know but what’s really gonna happen either where else that happens UFC yeah right mmm-ma it happens yeah I’m gonna come across that guy and the other guys sitting there going okay bring it yeah or he’s in the locker room like explaining to all his teammates yeah I’ll just I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna do that and it’s almost like we’re trying to you’re trying to convince them could help so yeah yeah so that’s what that’s what’s going on here say yeah right something trying to convince themselves they’re not confident in themselves yeah back to the book I suspect every soldier at one time or another experiences a degree of fear courage is not the absence of fear but rather the willingness to rise above fear and do the things you know need to be accomplished all soldiers hope that they will measure up the first time they get into a fight I certainly was notes but I believe I had prepared myself very well that once I came under fire I knew instinctively what needed to be done I think I was more apprehensive particularly before d-day than I was afraid maybe apprehension is the first stage of fear I’m not really sure you have to remember that Easy Company was melee unit as were all paratroopers we had trained for nearly two years before we jumped into Normandy I think I saw far more excitement in the eyes of my men then I did fear after Bray court we felt as if we were seasoned veterans even though we knew worse days were ahead that apprehension and definitely my first deployment to Iraq when you had all these guys bro the guys were so fired up to get it to do real missions and get after it that I think it was much more excitement than it was fear especially in the beginning and indicating you know there was a lot of cash peace going on we’re kind of dominating right and you know even showing up to a lot of the same thing that’s like sign me up what mission I’m going yeah and the more you spend time to that the more you realize what the threat is and you start losing guys or having guys getting wounded that’s when you start saying okay wait a second I’m not sure I want to die today and then guys got to overcome that on a daily basis yeah speaking of fear Steve Ambrose who’s a military historian read bunch of books including bandar brothers Steve Steve Ambrose says that heavy artillery bombardment will make even the most seasoned veteran eventually break I disagree a leader has to overcome fear convinced himself that every enemy shell or bullet is not targeting him the same is true in a company or a battalion leaders must ensure that strength and cohesion is a stronger force than fear this is especially true in men who have been scarred by prolonged combat Ambrose was correct when he titled the chat her band of invantive brother’s breaking point as he describes the horrendous artillery barrage that inflicted so many casualties on Easy Company in the boys ox company strength was below 50% and many of the noncommissioned officers were killed or wounded without direct supervision by leaders Easy Company as well as the remainder of the battalion could have easily been div debilitated by an increased sense of morality and fear that is precisely why I made it a point to visit the frontlines as often as possible soldiers need to sense need a sense that their leaders and commanders are in the game with them leadership by example is even more important in these situations I noticed that when men are at the edge of their physical endurance you tend to develop that 1000 yard stare that you always read about tired soldiers will often take off their helmet and run their fingers through their hair talked about that before and I talked about that quite often now at times they literally drop their helmets on the ground this soldier is already losing his self-respect the battle is half lost that’s a sign for the commander to take immediate action I didn’t wait for the trooper to reach reach that stage I proactively looked for these signs every soldier wants to do the right thing you always know the proper thing to do but doing it is sometimes more difficult I never wanted a man to lose his self-respect that’s what I was talking about earlier this thing of cell this idea of self-respect when you don’t care because you know you guys supposed to keep your gear on all the time that’s like just the code right you can keep your gear with you all the time to keep your gear on all the time the minute you take that off is where you start hanging up care what these guys think anymore something has happened that has made you say you know what I don’t care what these guys think anymore and that’s not good yeah again this is such a contradiction because you know we can sit here and talk about like hey I don’t care what people think and I mean that I mean that shouldn’t care what people think but at the same time it should be extremely important to you what people think and what your comrades think and that’s such a weird dichotomy I don’t think I’ve fully wrapped my hands around how to describe that yet and what that means I’ll get there eventually hopefully sure but but that is a very important thing and I’ve always felt like I don’t care what people think but at the same time I deeply care if what my peers think and my my men think we’re dichotomy I think that’s a core value thing it’s like you have these core values and that’s what you care about you know what you think about it what everyone else thinks but and then anything beyond that it’s just superficial fluff like if you don’t match your socks and I think what that’s the key principle here the part that may help bring this together for me is I want to be doing the right thing yeah right and so if I’m doing the right thing and people say oh jock was that’s that’s that’s that’s stupid what jock was doing or he shouldn’t be doing that but I know in my heart I’m doing the right thing yeah I’m gonna continue doing I don’t care what you think yeah there you go but at the same time if I know I’m doing the right thing and other people are are judging me that’s gonna keep me in line if I what let me rephrase it if I feel like I’m gonna do the wrong thing hmm I do care what people think yeah and I don’t want them to think all Jacko’s getting weak getting soft getting you know whatever he’s doing the wrong thing he’s making the wrong move mm-hmm very strange that’s that’s the dichotomy a leadership right or one of them it’s not really the dichotomy leadership that’s just a that’s just a dichotomy in life yeah like that now there’s a guy named lieutenant Compton who kind of brakes a little bit and they show up in them in the Band of Brothers movie and they eat dick winners talks about it here back to the book before you go on I know you think I’m too hard on lieutenant Compton for walking off the line at Bastogne let me explain myself buck that’s the kind of confident was nicknamed buck and he was– walked off the line buck was a great combat lead he was a superb platoon leader in Normandy and Holland in fact I would say he was one of the best at Bastogne he broke after some of his friends were seriously wounded in the constant artillery barrages there is a danger of getting too close to the men and Buck crossed that line when you see your friends getting maimed it makes it more difficult to go on that’s why I always maintained a certain detachment from the paratroopers and Easy Company am I too harsh on buck maybe but a leader needs to rise above fear the easiest thing to do is quit and then the author asked why didn’t you crack and dick winners responses on Pennsylvania Dutch I don’t quit I made a commitment moral courage is based on physical fitness courage is a combination of willpower and determination and determination I was an excellent physical shape I don’t think there was a man in the out that outfit who’s in better shape than I was and it showed I had trained hard in England after we finished training I would run at night blackout conditions but I would run then I’d come in and go to bed I was in maximum shape that was the physical side of things but there is a mental aspect of stamina as well I’ve always prided myself that I’d do my own thinking I have my own philosophy I have my own answers to the reasons things have turned out in my life by taking full accountably accountability for my life I’ve been able to meet the standards that I set for myself I don’t know any other way of saying it every commander must take full accountability for his actions stand up and be counted as a commander you are accountable for everything that your outfit does or fails to do don’t worry about who receives credit when things go well don’t play the blame game in my case the mantle of command provided me with the courage to succeed yeah extreme ownership that’s what he’s talking about you know personal accountability that’s what he’s talking about being in great physical condition that’s what he’s talking about that’s discipline you know I guess as we read this and I you know I didn’t read this book until a week ago yeah on week ago I read this book so it’s not like I read this book and said hey personal accountability is the most important thing about you know being a leader no this guy came to the same conclusion in World War two that I came to and conclusion in my experience in the military now he starts talking a little bit about combat fatigue how much combat fatigue there was in Normandy I witnessed lots of stress some in Holland much more Bastogne due to the intense cold lack of sleep and inadequate clothing in Belgium combat fatigue reached astronomical proportions we had spent seventy days in the frontlines in Holland and didn’t have time to recover before we boarded the trucks to take us to Bastogne on reflection I realized what was happening and arrived in Bastogne the men had been on the frontline since Normandy men were exhausted no hot food little sleep no rest constant tension and intense pressure from combat they were physically exhausted inclement weather and constant rain and snow made matters even worse physical exhaustion leads to mental exhaustion which in turn causes men to lose discipline the loss of self-discipline produces combat fatigue over and over again over and over again we hear that how important is discipline it is the most important thing and if if discipline is what gets people through these situations through combat stress through tension through bombs through artillery through freezing-cold lack of food lack of sleep imagine what just wouldn’t doing like a normal person’s life yeah back to the book how can you possibly compare a man who’s been under just one concentrated artillery bombardment for five minutes to place like Bastogne where it could be in the line for weeks or months in one of Ambrose’s books he states that prolonged artillery bombardment will break any soldier in civilian life of course we refer to combat fatigue as a mental breakdown that is exactly the way it is in combat it’s a mental breakdown the intensity it becomes a problem for me to express my feelings here but I’d like to share it with you the intensity of a fire or a heavy concentration to be a leader you have to be able to concentrate on that fire and move just as soon as it stops or the last rounds hit move get up start circulating among your men is everybody okay let’s get up let’s move keep your eye open for an attack get their attention move among your men as quickly as possible and moving among them the fact that they see you and they’re talking to you they know that you are there and you are talking to them and it makes all the difference in the world to know that you are not in this thing by yourself that’s what officers must do break the cycle of fear if a soldier is concentrating on his own feelings and on his own fear and he sees you moving around he realizes that you’re sharing the burden with him that’s why he can then move so that’s very important and that’s you know again that can apply to combat that can apply to business people are going to start panicking what are they going to do and they start panicking you and the leader as the leader you can step up get out there talk to people find out what’s going on tell them that we’re gonna move show them that you’re not afraid and that you are afraid but you’re still functioning lead by example plain and simple back to the book courage will be spent if you relax your standards an undisciplined soldier feels old isolated and alone maintain the standards don’t compromise your integrity never get up give up don’t ever give up I love this right here there is always one more thing that a leader can do to improve his situation and that of his command I always felt that a leaders physical presence was indispensable to unit cohesion and morale this is why I’ve captain Sobel failed so miserably leadership by example always Trump’s leadership by fear there’s always one more thing that a leader can do to improve his situation and that of its command is always one more thing you can do and an undisciplined soldier feels isolated and alone they know they’ve given up that self-respect how you gonna give it back to them when your men are dying and you do not you feel ashamed I don’t know any other way of saying it soldiers in war certainly in World War two and I suspect in every war are generally young men in their prime they meet death daily and in every form they fully realize the hazards of their profession they take chances because no young man expects to die before middle age and the first soldier dies that belief in immortality is shattered as casualties mount and the core of the unit grows fewer the remaining soldiers grow even stronger often shutting off replacement soldiers they don’t want to know the replacements because they are often the first to die when I saw one of my men wounded I was happy that he had a ticket home soldier killed in battle was at peace he had lived his life among men whom he had loved I took a degree of consolation and knowing that my men had lived rather than regretting that they had died a soldier’s real fear is not losing his life in combat replacing his comrades in jeopardy that’s why ordinary men were performed in extraordinary ways to ensure that their buddies survived so this is another level of you know war when you’re actually and I never was at this point by any stretch we’re looking at men that get wounded and saying oh lucky him he’s got to take it home we just weren’t under that knee that kind of casualty level at all so when guys were getting wounded it was you know it was hard it was you didn’t feel like a lucky him he’s got to take it home because there wasn’t enough guys getting wounded to make you think that way and not enough guys getting killed to make you think that way small percentage that’s the region a whole new level back to the book if you’ve selected the right personnel then a leader must instill discipline I mean perfect discipline as Patton once said discipline is the soul of the army general Washington said the same thing when he described the Continental Army in 1776 discipline is manifested in how well a soldier keeps his uniform how frequently cleans his weapon and the pride he has in his unit Joe Hogan of Easy Company speaks for all of us on the subject of pride in Company II during an argument with a soldier from another company about whose company better Joe said my company II will lick your company in 15 minutes if you wait until the guys who are AWOL come back we’ll do it in five minutes and this is important unit pride leads to unit discipline so again now we’re going back to the feelings that I had when I was a young kid in the SEAL Teams total pride in my platoon and this is funny cuz you came like look the guys that are gone right now they’re a wall they’re absent without leave if nations you wait for them to come back Nick that in five minutes but you know I feel like this this unit pride and unit discipline how they go together it’s like a gang yeah I I don’t know why I think of it this way and I talked about this at the muster it’s like a gang mentality when you start policing yourself up right when we when I was a super tune we it wasn’t our bosses that were we’re trying to keep us in mind we kept ourselves in line you didn’t want to get outside you want to do something wrong because we’re gonna get policed up by the boys the e5 mafia is what we were so the e5 mafia that’s a real thing by the way the e5 mafia to seal platoon you got the senior guys there’s like the platoon the platoon chief the leading petty officer those are those are like East 67th and you got the assistant platoon commander those those are like on the top four those the guys that kind of run there’s actual leadership and then you got the nugs and then in the middle of the pack right there you got the e5 they’re the guys that are actually running things and making things happen and the e5 mafia is what we call them and then Anna sylveon under the e5 mafia that all works together to make things happen but with the e5 mafia if you’ve got a good unit that e5 mafia they’re policing up everything that you don’t need to as a leader you just need to make sure that they don’t take it too far if you only say you need to make sure that’s it but they’re going to they’re going to make sure guys are doing the right thing they’re going to make sure that they’re performing well they’re gonna make sure that they’re in good shape they’re going to make sure all those things and this is an interesting quote what you tolerate you condone so again extreme ownership written by myself and lace Bab and will a fab and wrote a line in there it says it’s not what you preach it’s what you tolerate and he hadn’t read this book and here it is what you tolerate you condone to saying the exact same thing can you let standard start to slide you that’s what you’re done that’s the new standard of course there’s a little bit more to leadership than what we’ve talked about so far back to the book leading in battle is the art of dealing with human nature in the human condition I can’t speak of higher command but I know a few things about leadership at the small unit level leadership at all levels wins Wars but soldiers at the platoon company and battalion levels win battles I think this is particularly true in the National Army where soldiers need to understand the reasons behind the officers orders we have to know why we’re doing what we’re doing what I have succeeded had I been promoted beyond battalion I don’t know I do know that I felt comfortable at the small unit level this is one reason why Easy Company holds such a tender place in my heart I knew the strengths and weaknesses of every paratrooper I could rapidly ascertain what I wanted to do and felt confident that I could convince the men to do it after commanding Easy Company in Normandy in Holland I know that the men felt comfortable and trusting their lives to my care I’m not bragging because it’s not my nature to do so I’m stating fact knowing that I would never ask them to do anything that I wouldn’t do myself led to easy companies confidence in me as a leader they knew that I would never quit and then I would do everything within my power to bring them home after the war I’m proud when I hear a paratrooper from Easy Company or second Battalion remark about my courage under fire my willingness to share their hardships I told you once that wars do not make great men but war sometimes bring out the greatness in good men human nature that’s what it is and you know that’s sort of how I describe this podcast now an exploration of human nature and if you want to see human nature reveal itself in its most clearest form you have to go to war to look at that or others very strenuous situations harsh situations upon returning from the war here’s what major winters had to say back to the book the war changed me I returned to the states bitter a different man than the young man who had assisted in the Army in 1941 I was hardened when I returned first impressions were more important than they had previously been I looked at things differently when you return from a wartime environment you have to adjust to society the life that you are going to be sharing with others just to make a living though I was comfortable in a combat environment I wondered if I would feel at home among civilized people who wouldn’t be able to understand how a soldier thinks and feels I came to understand that I would have to make changes to be accepted into life at home this takes time and it’s never easy while on the frontlines in prolonged combat I often wondered about my friends back in the States old friends I had grown up with some of whom had avoided coming over either by becoming conscience and subject errs or working in Warley related factories that the federal government had declared essential I understand everyone doesn’t have to share my belief that military service is the only form of service in wartime but I took immense pride in my to the war effort we who fought the war were part of something noble military service is an honor a privilege funny thing is that when I finally returned home I had no desire to pick up with those friends who managed to skip the whole thing I completely shut them out I wouldn’t come downstairs when they knocked on the door even today when I look at a man or woman I can’t help but judge them does he have leadership capabilities would she be good in combat does he or she have what it takes and I think you know clearly when you come home those are things I think everybody goes through love you look at people you’re kind of judging people it certainly will leave a mark I I’ll tell you I don’t think there’s enough veterans now you know you’re not gonna be able to just hang around with veterans it’s not going to happen you gotta you gotta understand and accept the fact that not everyone served the way you served that’s just the way it is and I don’t I try to make sure that I don’t outwardly hold people to a higher expectation and the other thing is I think you have to walk a fine line and you got to make sure you’re not looking down on people because they didn’t choose the path that you chose now world war ii is different because or at least appears to be different because it was so easy so many people went on the path of okay you know December 7th happened I’m going to sign up tomorrow today whatever and I think that the way these wars that we’ve been fighting have gone down it hasn’t been the same it’s been different and I think we veterans right now have to use some caution before just shutting out everyone else that that didn’t serve the way we did we’d be shutting out basically you probably be shutting out most the people in your lives most most of my friends outside the SEAL Teams there you know you get to got a bunch of friends from Jitsu none of them served I can’t just shut them all out so I think we have to be careful about that as as veterans to make sure we you’re going to have those feelings understood understand that there’s more than that and you’ve gotta you gotta accept other things going on in the world besides what we did another letter that dick winners wrote to D at alman going back to the book when you’re an officer you are responsible for the lives of soldiers in your command you think about kids like this one paratrooper I knew well and you soon become old beyond you years in the three years since I had entered the army I urged a great deal it seems as if college days and days of civilian life when I did as I please are long past I must have been it it must have been a dream a small and short the beautiful part of my life now all I do is work work to improve myself as an officer work to improve them as fighters as men make them work to improve themselves the result is I am old before my time not physically old but hardened to the point where I can make the rest of them look like undeveloped high school boys old to the extent where I can keep going after my men fall over and sleep from exhaustion I can keep going as a mother who works after her sick child an exhausted child has fallen asleep old to the extent where if it’s a decision or advice needed my decisions are taken as if the wisdom behind them was infallible yes I feel old and tired from training these men to the point where they are fishing fighters I hope it means that some were turn to those girls back home and again the reason I put that in there is because there’s that’s what that’s pressure right that’s the certain amount of pressure that a person that’s been in the military has felt and it’s real that pressure and his wife said dick fights the Battle of the Bulge virtually every night he had recurring nightmares so even dick winners you know a very thoughtful and squared away guy was still living those nightmares virtually every night his wife said dick also said back to the book I know I did everything within my power to ensure as many soldiers made it home from the war as possible but when you survive and your soldiers don’t you feel guilty it haunts me to this day that I lived and so many of my paratroopers died as the veterans of Easy Company pass on I am reminded of those who never returned from the war I see their faces I can almost hear them calling me and again I think that everybody that served and survived when your friends and your brothers didn’t you’re always going to have that and it’s not going to go away and dick winners major dick winters died January 2nd 2011 obviously they had a memorial service the big memorial service for him back to the book those who remained alive voiced their sympathy said former platoon sergeant William Grenier who had lost a leg outside Bastogne dick always said hang tough and follow me when he said let’s go he was right in the front he was never in the back a leader personified he was the best commander we ever had we’d have followed him anywhere Edward babe Heffron who served alongside winners at Bastogne and who helped liberate Hitler’s Eagle’s Nest added he was one hell of a guy one of the greatest soldiers I ever was under he was a wonderful officer a wonderful leader he had what you needed guts and brains it took care of his men that’s very important Popeye Wynn added it seemed as if he always made the right decision he was a real soldier he was one of the best it started with him doing the right thing I don’t know how he survived the war but he did another Easy Company veterans concurred noting every one of us we’d follow him to hell that’s the type of guy he was and also speaking at that ceremony was a guy by the name of Eric Gendron see who was the screenwriter one of the screenwriters for Band of Brothers and he was trying to get the screenplay and the series to be as accurate as possible and so he spent a lot of time with dick winters and he got to know him very well and I found what he said about dick winters to be very important here we go back to the book dick winters made it his personal quest to excel whether it was executing the perfect pushup or training himself to run three miles up and down Currahee Mountain this pursuit was his private tool his solution and it was that solo effort that obsessive clarity and pure determined self-contained purpose that his men observed and that caused them to follow when he said simply follow me not just from that hedgerow in Normandy and across that field and Holland under enemy fire but follow my example follow my commitment and we’ll get through this then we will succeed dick winters was laid to rest his family plot in the Evangelical Lutheran Cemetery in Ephrata Pennsylvania the Saturday following his death and his gravestone reads simply Richard D winters world war two hundred and first Airborne 1918 to 2011 kindig winners before he died said I am the man I am today because of Easy Company Easy Company made me as I reflect upon my life since the war I can honestly say that it has been a lifetime search for men like those I knew an easy company I haven’t found too many I don’t think I know braver soldiers that Joe Toye go gone here Floyd Talbert I live with these guys every day I mourn when they pass Carwood Lipton died in December 2001 his death struck me particularly hard so did bull Randleman Lipton didn’t live to see the acclaim Easy Company received when the miniseries was released I try not to think of the bad times anymore I think mostly of the good times the emotion will always be there and no dick winner said that war brings out greatness and men and he also realized that war makes you appreciate your country the major winners before he died said well it probably sounds strange to you but when I brought easy company that Utah beats so we could board the LST to return to England on July 11th 1944 I saw that beach for the first time with that vast Armada of ships as far as the eye could see in every direction seeing the American flag fluttering over that Beach I felt weak in the knees and tears filled my eyes suddenly that flag meant something different than it ever had before I’ve never looked at our flag since without that memory in mind now I’m an old man but that feeling has never left me and finally then I always say that war is awful and war is a nightmare but or does certainly make you appreciate life then dick winners certainly appreciated the rest of his life then he said this I sit here in this house and I gaze out the window I see flowers and the birds I behold the wonder of nature everything seems so beautiful but that wraps up that book everything seems so beautiful and you know over the past couple of weeks I’ve been travelling a bunch and meeting a lot of different people businesspeople workers police and firefighters and active-duty military and veterans just people and we people we get caught up in all kinds of chaos and mayhem mayhem from the past we get caught up in that about what we should have done or what we should have left undone and we feel this pressure about the future about what we should do or what we shouldn’t do or where we’re going and how would you get there and I get that I get that I understand it I feel it do life is hard life is hard and if you aren’t careful it will grind you down and you know I talked about detachment a lot from a leadership perspective and we talked about it today and it’s certainly important but it’s also a tool for your mind and for your sanity step back step back and look around not just to see what your next move is and where to head next and what to focus on but step back to look around and and see life this life your life not surrounded by the pressure and the war and the failures and the violence and the nightmares and the mistakes and the grind not that life but life as it is as it is without our intervention a blessing a journey a short little bit of time on an incredibly fast-moving sphere of amazement where if you can detach and step back and look for a moment you’ll see that like dick winter said everything seems so beautiful and I think that’s all of God for the night so echo Charles yeah some lessons look yeah very impactful for me and a big reminder for me we worked heavily with the first of the 506 Band of Brothers in the battle Ramadi we had a the Delta platoon commander and a group of his guys spent a whole time over there and what an incredible bunch of soldiers they were just incredible the the impact that they had on the battlefield the leadership I saw at every level level and whenever I think of the band of brothers my first thoughts when I think of the band of brothers isn’t about dick winters it isn’t about the series it isn’t about the books my first thought of the band of brothers is the first of 506 battalion that we were honored to work with in the battle Ramadi and one of my platoons worked intently with the entire time and so for their service and sacrifice we I am eternally thankful for what they did and what they taught us and for us being alongside them was real humbling really yeah you mentioned how how like in all these books and all these lessons that discipline is like so important and but there’s time you mentioned like imagine or imagine how important it is or how beneficial whatever it could be just in everyday life remember that yesterday yeah that’s that’s crazy in the more books like this so we go over whatever that message like becomes more and more clear because you know like you get um like creative guys you know but they don’t have discipline kind of thing or you get super discipline guys but they don’t have creativity or you know yeah kind of but every once in a while you’ll get you’ll find a person or you’ll notice a person who does bring them together you know and you see the results that you see what kind of productivity or you just you just see the results in one where they’re you know like these get like fighters or you know I don’t know like anyone doing absolutely so man it’s crazy how and you know if you’re like naturally gifted or whatever that’s something you in a way not likely I don’t know what that’s like yeah but I mean it let’s say you notice someone and you see it in all these different fields as well or where someone that’s got a lot of natural talent yeah they don’t they don’t have this because essentially through upbringing whatever the just environment they don’t need it really you know they don’t eat it like just get away with it because that’s another talent they get away with it yes exactly I mean I think we hear that a lot this idea that you know talent it doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have the discipline to make things happen and and a person that’s highly disciplined will outperform someone that might be more talented yeah I’ll bet lovely yes I’ll oh yeah and it was all day long too strong I am the beginning in the beginning and yes exactly I feel like eventually um the discipline is this thing that’s just going to carry you through so and I thought I just thought that was super important where you were like imagine if this if you apply this to everyday life because everyday life essentially us anyway it’s like a straight-up luxury yeah it is and here’s what’s important about what you’re saying is is this fact that the reason that these guys had to have discipline is because if they didn’t have discipline they would die yeah if they didn’t have discipline they would be overrun if they didn’t have discipline they would they would starve they would just die they would die you know they have to have this one and your point is in this world in this life in 2017 living in the first world you don’t have to have discipline at all yeah and you’ll still survive and you might even do okay yeah sure just imagine yeah just imagine if you apply the discipline to your life where you’ll end up yeah and how much better off you’ll be and how much more you can do with your life the one life you have by the way or you can do with that life if you just have the discipline and work hard and get after it yeah and you see it in little pockets to like remember when you’re a kid and like I’m gonna say well save my money for this I don’t know comic book I don’t know I’m gonna save my money you don’t even have an income by the way but somehow you save all your money like that little corridor that you find does it all you know you I’m save that I’m gonna save that because you have this kind of and in a way like the discipline kind of forms itself around that goal so you know what it is like you know what that means you know so it’s real like that’s a real thing you shouldn’t you shouldn’t regard it as some ambiguous thing that I know it’s not like not all I’m so many randomly crazies hanging at all yeah it’s real straightforward yeah I think that was one of the first podcast we did when I said something along one to like you know what you need to do yeah look we all know do it should be doing I think that was the first there’s not too many people that a loss that are going on just not sure how to do this no they know exactly what these we know exactly what yeah I know exactly what I should be doing tell you what it is distractions too many distractions and distractions are literally everything there’s industries of just distractions that’s the whole industry like TV TV industry of destroy Hugh Janus of TV TV can be a confession because there’s educational stuff on me um divided I’m just saying like Cedar Point the entertainment industry and I’m not saying these industries of destructions or bad things I’m not saying that I’m just saying distractions are what get in the way of I know for lack of a better term like your your goal yeah and well we’re talking about the very fact of some of your discipline can be used to create things that are actually distracting them if you will if your goal is to create some artistic piece whether it’s a movie whether it’s music whether it’s whatever that that’s a distracting thing but that’s not that doesn’t mean that it’s negative that we want to make that happen yes there’s people that will find something I mean the reason you want to create something is I guess you create it for yourself but then the reward is when other people say yes I get something out there too recognition for me appears yeah for sure yeah and when I say distractions I do in regards to goal it’s a relative thing meaning like you’re distracted from your path of the goal I agree with you yeah but there’s also just just mentally just just weakness just the easy path I should say right the discipline bonds art the the easy path that anyone wants to jump on when your alarm clock goes off a lot right I’ve talked about these things a million times that’s what the problem is the problem isn’t even distraction the problem is just a lack of will to do what you need to do right the direction can add to that that’s about that’s a part of it what we do is we take we take our the path of least resistance and then we throw distraction on top of that for instance when you open up your computer because you’ve got to write a book and instead of stroking the word processing code I’m just going to check the interwebs real quick distracted yeah you’re distracted there goes 45 minutes you look in the Internet is the Internet of the mind a time warp Oh at times it disappears on the internet there’s a lot of distractions on there yeah we’re sure and really what I mean by distraction is you have this long term goal right your goal is your payoff your long-term payoff so so the distractions really are these little short-term payoffs that drag you that diss track you so that’s what I put the destruction eliezer you broke that out for me right right but right getting off the track exactly right so the weakness will let those distractions kind of take hold sure but so yeah they work hand in hand for sure so so if you can sit because again that saving money for comic books thing so consider that as the goal so the distractions are going to be the candy that you want to buy or the you know I don’t you play dice with your ad on whatever the distractions is in regards to that specific pack I like echoes world right now like playing dice with your friends saving some comic books like 1960 so I like it you know back but either way like the distractions they’re relevant so eat when I say okay the distractions are there when I say there’s industries of distractions again I’m not saying these are bad things they are bad things if they’re distracting you from your goal so you need also to gold think about it sometimes you just need to let your mind take a rest yeah you need one of the oh I gotta fucking I just flew home from like I’ve been on the road while all over the world did the muster did a bunch of speeches did some consulting was all over the place on the plane the whole time and I flew home from the East Coast one was that set a couple days ago and when I flew I haven’t done this in forever I flew home I watched a movie I really I just did a total distraction because I said you know what I can’t I’m not I’m not I’m not in the game right now like I need my brain you sneeze you shut off yeah do something which I don’t like to do which is you can either do two things I look at it you need to consume or you can produce right I want to be producing I want to be putting together I want to be writing I want to be thinking I want to be right reading for the podcast prepping that’s what I want to be doing what are you producing something consuming is I’m just absorbing what someone else made yeah right I’m just going to absorb this absorb this absorb this a lot of times it is garbage so but I flew home had a long flight know like you know what I need to check out I need to check out right now just do nothing so I watched two movies dig it to move would EULA we got a little a good at the two movies I watched the first one was not Heartbreak Ridge it’s the new movie that just came out about daus that Mel Gibson directed what’s it called oh no there’s a big successful movie consciousness objector world war two he wins the Medal of Honor or he’s awarded the Medal of Honor hmm so that was a good movie you know it’s a world war two movie I liked it it’s not in my opinion five star but it was good it was entertaining sir he told the story and then after that I watched Zoolander that was when I was going to the full blood pressure good anyway why do Lander yeah because it’s a hilarious movie I have a buddy in the teams that we nicknamed Mugatu sure yeah because you know he would go crazy so we had to call me doctor yeah and yeah that was just a funny movie I just decompress yeah I don’t do that very often hey you know the grind is always happening but I’ll just had to take a little detachment what was the name of that movie with there’s not famous actors I guess there’s one who’s a really funny guy anyways there’s a good movie yeah so techno what the sort of question is is that really a distraction so you know like a football game or a movie or something that that you’re not doing to put you you know more forward on your path or whatever but if you’re taking your if you’re taking a break is that a distraction like if I’m lifting I do a workout and then I go recover from that way I read oh is that a diss track I don’t distraction it I should have tried to do yeah not good no oh yeah and your mind I was done slow Japs out so a distraction is more of an idea more the concept you know so like you definitely think that it is just like how you said when you open your computer and the whole internet is there to distract on one way or another yeah um that’s a distraction you know where you can eat like even if I have a book if my goal is to finish some video but meanwhile I have this book that’s real informative and it’s um and I’m like you know that book seems real unreal in the mood to read that book that’s a distraction even though it’s a good thing you know so the detection is like the idea so look you know what are the common goals I want to get in shape I want to UM you know be a better husband or life or I want to do better at work on a learn monetary all the stuff you’re better at jiu-jitsu get better you do to all the stuff you can get distracted by these other things you know before I I don’t know read I’m a surf Instagram or something like that that’s a distraction you know and now which is my original point is the reason or one of the reasons that we don’t apply this extreme discipline as it’s outlined in these books here is B is one of the reasons is because we have literally infinite amount of distraction okay well there’s also no consequence or I shouldn’t say that the consequence is invisible yeah consequence you don’t say you don’t say hey if I would have had discipline I would reach this ultimate potential you just okay with not reaching that an ultimate potential and you’re just like learning and putting microwavable popcorn in and watching a movie do you’ve been doing it the whole time as well hey I know here I’m good I and you know what it was a good movie and a popcorn tasted good they don’t know what I mean that’s the wrong answer yeah you don’t recognize what your potential is and so you’re just okay with this kind of half potential you don’t reach your potential and since you don’t know it any other thing it’s hard to see it’s hard to see how that long-term affects you yeah I got yes just one bag of popcorn is just one movie yeah but you did that three times this week yeah you know that’s that’s not 30 times you know I’m not in the past ten yeah you could write 30 000 words no more than that yeah you’re right about thousand words an hour well a good way to look at it and I think I’m gonna said this where it’s not like a moment-to-moment looking to the Future kind of thing you should look at it but in the way of in the sense of looking at it in the past so let’s say you consider the last one year or two years right and let’s say I wanted to play better guitar something good goal yeah I have that goal I always fail at it there you go so you look at it in this way where you don’t say okay if I spend an hour a day um you know practicing guitar and you know in a year I’ll be better you don’t necessarily look like that you can but a good way to look at it or helpful with is if you look at it last year where dang if I if I would have played an hour a day right now right now as I’m sitting here with you right now I’d be Delphic guitar you know kind of like that so you kind of get the wrong in my experience I’ve got this feeling of like wasted time you know you know that feeling worth like dang I got I got to play catch-up now that’s a little bit more compelling I think sometimes it can be there so he scream about it that way too I think that helps maybe maybe not sleep either help speaking of help and potential Oh both actually got a double gravitational you need help by with supplementation if you’re working out so man how you said you can’t not work out I think especially nowadays like you could because your life to probability-wise is cruising you’re cruising physically where you know you go to office because really a life is physically easy right now you’re a tank it’s easier and easier even if it’s not easier right now next year generally speaking it’s going to be easier you know like even like so I’m brushing my teeth like I do every week or whatever and once a week whether or not yes and so I’ve the regular toothbrush you know I’m sure there’s all kinds of little micro technologies in the toothbrush but I start to think Madness there have you know this is the old school thing there’s automatic toothbrushes actually my brother told me about this too so let’s do this automatic you know electric toothbrush sells like super dope and I highly recommended it it’s like $89 all this stuff and I’m thinking dang something as basic as brushing your teeth is way easier now way easier got a machine to do it that’s that’s really the whole narrative with everything point being physically alright push yourself because you’re not gonna have to push it you get a real force you yeah yeah your environment is starting to work more and more against you in regards to physical activity so my point being you didn’t work out yeah I was going to say that’s a real straightforward thing work out yeah but I feel like it I mean maybe for you you know to be like yeah it seems obvious you know they call that the curse of knowledge you know when you’re you’re like so advanced in this one thing that you forget how it is to not be advanced now that’s your like I have forgotten what it’s like to not be advanced in terms of trying to explain to people why they were I think it’s pretty self-evident anybody why are you to workout not you’re wrong yeah okay think about this and I think but and I thought about this one like okay you know when you go into a jujitsu gym okay you’re different so you make you very well not even understand this this might not compute with you but if you walk into a jujitsu gym and this applies to even a regular 24-hour Fitness gym if you’ve never been in there before you’ve ever worked out that’s a really intimidating thing you come in if one’s looking at me I don’t know how to use the machines I don’t know how to work out like it was look at me judging me I’m dumb it is not my element all this stuff that’s intimidating you know okay but it’s real what I’m saying you know how you say like you probably don’t know about that because you don’t you have the curse of knowledge in regards to like physical activity working out you know all that stuff and then the pain that comes with it man I date I understand but that’s even more of a reason to work out physical condition anyway Yury glad you did if you don’t work out just jump in there jump in go to the gym last year if you would have started working out you know how dope you’d be right now wait Oprah then you are if in the event you didn’t start last I sure seems like anyway while you work out you joints might be kind of sore I know this from experience take krill oil my father-in-law turned me on to it actually technically didn’t successfully turn me on to Italy until he tried he tried and you know I didn’t see the light until Jocko turned me onto it so now I’m turning everyone else onto it hopefully successfully krill oil is I’m not going to go into a whole deep thing here but it’s for your joint so if you get joint pain we just would degeneration over time you get older dig it krill oil bring you back still function it’s kind of like your joint joint search like always warm now not like to the touch warm but like warm like ready for action you see I’m saying anyway krill oil I ain’t even say by who huh if you don’t know on it that’s the whole company and they have they don’t have just krill oil they have other stuff too they are mr Veeck yeah perform it I I recommend shrimp deck by the way big time especially if you’re going for performance yeah if you’re gonna go train jiu-jitsu with Andy Taylor Dean Craig Baker yes Greg train echo Charles just take take the shrimp we know what sport the a stream Josh for takes three of them ah is that so that’s the recommended I didn’t know that and then I read it yeah I’d like one day I just read the instructions for no way I was like wonder if I take 12 of these things about me get more tech 1 when I did say three cuz I’ve been taken to a fro sorry took three talked a little bit legit yeah I always take a curry and never let down and again that’s for the performance so if I’m just cruising if I’m just taking a walk around the block or two I take the shrimp tech I’m not going to feel it as much as if I jump in jiu-jitsu rounds you know ya know you dig it when I have to perform a situation yeah big time me too you take stream tech immune not to be confused with and I’ve taken shrimp tech amusement when I go massive travel yeah you can always planes well people everyone’s sick coughing sneezing yeah it’s all nasty oh you and I do just go ahead and take some shroom tech immune consider that something different it’s the yellowish it’s a ligand that a label the green tooth of the whatever you’re eating is more yellow yeah I think the ingredients will just say the ingredients you know I take vitamins please actually but I’m a big travel vitamin C shrimp check immune I here zinc is a good one – that’s what I hear I’ve taken zinc before to try and overcome a cold but I wasn’t very uh you know convinced yeah yeah I can power I will powers in vitamin C though if I feel like some kind of a disease coming on yeah power the vitamin C it’s kind of a good thing where you take this um shroom tech immune it like you know you know that they were like okay does vitamin C help okay check it does zinc and I don’t know I didn’t read the ingredients like you either didn’t thought were a bus or whatever but I read the effects yeah okay got to raise my immune system going to need that playing a bunch of dirty people not always many neezy sir sneezing on everyone coughing on everyone yeah and and by the way because I’m gonna go talk to people I can’t be going on I’m Jack oh yeah I can’t do that I have to actually be able to talk yeah coughing singing yes you constable today me it’s awful if you if you sneeze or cough when you’re on a mic in front of a big group of people not cool or if you keep doing it yeah kind of turned out good of you should wanna calm you know the good stuffs in the elkay yes on it calm you want 10% off all this stuff on it calm slash Jocko and here’s the thing we just talked about right now we talked about krill oil shrimp exports from tech immune out of range okay yeah alphabet bro we could go on all night with this because of all the good stuff that he levels into this I did you watched me actually well yeah yeah eating hate it I had alpha brain today and I was thinking you took it but then when you wanted that long story about something and I was sort of wondering maybe he didn’t take his out for breaking oh Dan Dan when I wrapped it up you were like they’re you all over the whole time oh your alphabet I didn’t see it alpha bring that statement made me say to you are an alphabet today just gives you a complete your the whole deal right there I’m not gonna tell you I’ll read it back without an echo story and then when it comes to closure you go okay get some of that good CA could take lead take my lead example you understand what I’m saying the so alpha brain if you don’t know because we haven’t talked about it as much as yeah I feel like as far as its role in our lives my life you know speak for me so where you take it neutral is called neutral pick it’s basically brain food brain food supplements you know like did to make your brain know what I’m going to talk about it to you because I’ve been taking mostly on it mostly alpha brain in the pack in the powder taste good yeah the peach and the spice place I’ve been taking it in that more than I I’m going to actually ran out of the pills yeah the capsules wait so you let you’d prefer the capsules you’re saying well sometimes the capsules a little bit more convenient right yeah yeah but I like it like if I’m doing an event or I’m gonna go on a podcast yeah and I didn’t I wanted to build a bamned makes himself a brainy and brainy see my euros in a very doing a bunch of stuff now mix it up a little ritual you know like when you brew tea it’s like not so extreme anyway either way they’re both the same deal and they’re called nootropics proven by the way I’m not just saying it was good for me so you should take it not the same that now when you you you say that yeah but to me that means more to me then I don’t know why but like when you say oh it’s a double triple blind placebo blah blah blah control but yeah I would rather have like someone that I know say bro I’m telling you take this stuff like I did with Grillo know for you yeah yeah yeah it was more important than reading a bunch of facts about it yeah yeah and that takes someone that you know and they’re saying look man give it a little crack yeah it rusts me on this one and I think most people have that in one way or another not with everything but yeah like if you recommend a movie or something like that and then meanwhile look at the reviews the reviews are like super good but then you’re like eh it was junk because this because of that it’s like it’s an Iron Man shape being so long you know we’re right in the classic 90s con it’s at 90s comedy what kind of mood is jockle in when i goes if nineties call with the lender plan yeah that’s just ridiculous but see how busy was but I like oh it’s Owen Wilson and that really no bill oh yeah sorry I’m yeah in Ben I like I like that guy Owen Wilson he’s family I like him because he comes across as very truthful in the way he says yeah like almost naive yeah yeah yeah you just like seems like a good dude and you gonna keep you from dying out well yeah I just kind of got this air about him that’s kind of hair heavy yeah yeah yeah it’s interesting nonetheless back to the Alpha brain I think that when they prove it I think certain people certain types of like mindsets or whatever kind of more gravitate towards that like they’re like okay that’s cool that it worked for you but that could have been Lucy that could have been this that could have been your mood that day or whatever if I’m going to commit to this I want some on some hard sacks some people that’s up so boom you got hard facts as well as a legitimate recommendation because I was taking this even before you know the podcast and stuff so I was into it nonetheless alpha brain that’s a good one bunch of other cool stuff if you’re into protein powder a good clean protein powder on there all the salt would work out stuff too by the way I got a bunch of kettlebells their primal bells legend L the artistic one they’re dope look at my Instagram there’s some on there anyway that is a good way to support yourself help yourself maintain the workouts physical activity all that stuff so you can be successful in that way I don’t think there’s any excuse anymore I def Pharrell don’t also good way to support really good way to support Amazon click-through when you go and get the book conversations with major dick winters go to the websites listed there what you know cover and click through there boom so basically it’s an amazon click to buy through amazon amazon click through before you do your shopping click through the website amazon boom supports the podcast small action big reaction because the click there only takes what three seconds I think we can turn the maximum really so you know Kim from USA three-section seconds and then the reaction is massive support for this podcast that’s a good way I’m son click through to the website Jacobite Escom or I think it’s on jockle store calm as well just go to jackal podcast calm click through before you do your amazon shopping also subscribe to the podcast on itunes if you haven’t already stitcher google play all these other podcasting providing platforms also on youtube if you don’t mind the video version of this podcast below youtube watch it there it’s kind of cool and get ads that other blare of experience yeah everyone seems to do that when there’s a guest yeah because they don’t know who that person is they know what you look like they know what I look like most most yeah most people well if they’re listening to podcast eventually they know what you look like they know what I look like yeah and so there’s no reason sometimes although sometimes you can see like when certain subjects come up and there’s maybe some intensity in the podcast and more people watch it knows whatever pretty mellow podcast and we’re just talking about whatever we’re talking about maybe not everyone feels the need to go to youtube but when a guest comes on people want to see what that person looks like and there’s usually some more animated interactions yes – yeah big time yeah man so if you’re into that you know what it’d be cool if you made a little clip of when Tim Kennedy was on and I I read a question from the audience was something along the lines and I said I said you know hey you know they took away bayonet training boot camp and Tim can disgust me god damn it that’s my favorite parts of a podcast ever but we need again that I want I would really appreciate it if you’d make that clip even if it was like 12 seconds long but just yeah just 12 seconds long it would be worth having on there because everyone should know that that’s a travesty to say stop doing bayonet courses it in farming boot camp you got it some people if they don’t hear this exact part thing we kind of confused but hey I think they’ll appreciate it I think so oh they’ll hear it yeah it’ll dig it fully but there’s good animation yeah no he’s getting crazy yeah match is fun and really in general just say YouTube that’s an added like I said in that added visual layer you know if you’re down for it sometimes people you know you put it on your tea let’s say you in your grudge you know you’re working out or you’re you know it’s on the TV it’s kind of like you’re in the conversation a little bit more it feels like it and also if people subscribe to the YouTube channel then when they can sign up where if you make an excerpt right then they can get that cool like a good living is it’s much easier to share an excerpt from the podcast than it is to share an audio I don’t even know how to share audio piece of a podcast I don’t know how to do that it probably can’t be done probably that’s why we have the YouTube so yeah go ahead subscribe to that one and speaking of me mention the excerpts yeah you put some excerpts you can if you don’t want to share or you anticipate the disperses not gonna listen to two and a half hours of a podcast when you share it you just get the little lesson you know that you want to share okay how to you know approach college didn’t what everyone yeah that’s a problem um cuz everybody that went to college already wishes they had that when they went to college yeah so when they you know when they encounter someone who’s gonna you know go to college their kids or nephew neighbor whatever boom they have some advice directly from Jocko anyway so yeah you can you share that subscribe to YouTube that’s the point there subscribe to youtube if you want and if you want to support and you know if you want you can sign up for a little alert when I upload something on there I enough those alerts you can get out very pretty stoked I see something coming through like a little present you know yeah so YouTube good one um also chalk away the store it’s called Jaakko store Jaakko store calm you know if you want t-shirts and whatnot discipline equal freedom the one that simply says get after it on the front that seemed to have gone over pretty well I’d say well and also it seems worth noting that we now offer the victory MMA shirt the jockey uniform that I wear all the time field I wear it when I record the podcast I wear it all time tweet you know obviously because we have our gym yeah we have a lot of t-shirts are they are Jim’s name on it and so I wear that t-shirt lot yeah and I always have yeah and then I I didn’t intentionally do it all the podcast in the beginning I just happened to be wearing it through or three times yeah and then someone said is that the only shirt Jaakko wears yeah and at that point I said y-yes ago Noah you’re like the guy on the fly remember the movie the fly yeah and the lady’s like what was African she’s like hey is that your only said it clothes or something like that and she sees in his closet that they’re all the same oh yeah that is me that yeah yeah like I like have things are the same but it people would come and ask me hey where can I get the t-shirt work I get the t-shirt so now we did it on the Jaakko store strangely they didn’t even have them at Victory no I don’t come and be like hey we want to do a thing that our original goal this is an original this is the original victory MMA t-shirt and we had to reproduce it yeah well she had to reissue yeah and I’ll just open its own respect right yeah it is so I’m trying to think like is that enough it’s not because it’s the exact same design yeah it’s actually like literally the exact same like design same file right yeah boom so now you get that one if you want it now you can represent represent big time it’s good it’s interesting because yours are like old school so they kind of have like a fade to them yeah I know anyway we just know they’re like oh we mean look sure beaming I’m claiming to grab a couple of those too by the way right well just because I was running low when I would have other things in my yeah what’s that called when you have clothes my wardrobe yeah yes see good thinking chuckle anyway chocolate or calm check those out some other new stuff stuff things items on there let me talk about this mug I’m going to take too much time because we’ve been you know we’ve been going at it so this travel mug right here so you know how you know at home you know you have your cup didn’t they yeah but you know what I’m talking about the one that you you know what I have actually my wife once she searched forever to get me a cup that I liked that she found it yeah and then she went to Target and bought you know it does nothing there’s big giant plastic but feel like glasses whatever that is I’m not really core something that can’t break but you can but they they feel good in your hands so I have a bunch of those but apparently it’s getting replaced yes so it’s strangely I had the same thing well I was on the same search so I just want what what I arrived at my favorite cup was pink because they didn’t have any other colors it was pink but it was big it was like maybe like 24 outs like big cup that’s what I used for everything news pink whatever that meant nothing your your color blue better manhood yeah man compared to compared to the functionality the pink was nothing oh but here’s the thing it could barely feel it like colder you know the kind like you put it in but it was like kind of stuck you’d have to fine but it that was the cop that was the best one you use any other cop you just I don’t know how you doing that I’m gonna get to that so but you know what I mean though so you know exactly I mean we’re you know you have your cup I know words like it could be dirty there can be cups everywhere all available you’re like no I’m gonna go ahead wash this you know and I’m these my cup that’s it this one okay we’ll talk about this this mug it’s technically what travel tumbler right ben-hur to whatever and I’ll come to the top of it though but you take all the top boom that’s a cup to organ out anomaly for conducive to just using it as a cut you know how if you have like thread in there to screw on at Thomas Freddie’s like yeah it’s like a thing anyway and that’s not to mention the look black-on-black what they call it murder doubt you’ve heard that expression murder doubt no trick Google if you have time Google murder doubt Cadillac a car what it is it’s a flat matte painting with black wheels so it’s like basically all black reticulum it’s all black so that’s this thing is murdered out technically some flat black matte with like the glow go the 4:34 and the discipline extreme is like shiny black rhino block very nice very nice so and that’s just a design so function wise perfect 30 ounces not 24 30 straight up and it what is it BPA free all that so you don’t get poisoned over time come on bro that’s a big thing and also okay and here’s the impressive part when I ultimately was like dang like impressed I guess is like a technology has kind of been around but I didn’t know because I had that plastic cup you know whatever this it’ll keep it’ll separate the temperatures from inside and outside so the inside temperature won’t leak to the outside meaning it keeps like if you have ice and cold stuff in here bro means it’s insulated it’ll yeah but it’s insulated in a special crazy way if you and this is with no top on by the way you fill it up with ice or ice water you know is what I did one time I finished like knows maybe three quarters so some water in there and I just I kind of left it went to bed the next day I looked at it and the ice was still in there and yeah sure that doesn’t mean that much but as far as proving how it keeps the temperature wow that’s a lot straight up also it doesn’t like sweat you know when you have a hold on it on it yet if it’s on your desk you’re working yeah yeah screw some stuff up hot day whatever humid it’s like yet doesn’t even do that doesn’t do that at all one time hose outside the pool whatever cream ice water actually chocolatey cool we’ll get to that too but so you know I leave it there and it’s in the Sun and I grab it and I’m like oh my this is going to be totally melted because I’m feeling it the cup physically feeling the outside of the cup and it’s straight-up hot the Sun is beaming on it’s hot I look inside I still the full on ice not even melted at all well I’m telling you you replays always copy that you’re at the route I’m done I’m telling you right now when you replace this Cup you’re going to find all these benefits to it above and beyond just the dope look and size and it fits in your cup holder straight up see how it’s like the shape yeah cool alright next next thing I feel like we could talk about it over a little war unless it advised or you like it I’m glad you liked it I like it too an exam first I’m utilizing it actually and I’m impressed but I see you still I see reading getting down with this cup mug for a long time can thoroughly impressed anyway so yeah we got something we got that on the taco store taco store calm we got it on there also should we talk about the warrior kid shirts you can talk about that right there on there too weird kid shirts youth sizes for your kids boom there it is very very cool warrior kids out there there’s some layers and now on to that I just found out by the way your control the colors of my gosh yeah yeah it’s just don’t worry about that so check out again chuckle sorta calmness and rash guards on their new rash guards out maybe they’re out hoodies kind of getting into like a spring I think maybe summer pretty soon so these might not be as applicable either way they’re on renew start prepping the winter hoodies that I’m going to be more in charge of this time sure that they’re heavier more powerful yeah because you’re thinking New England winter yeah I’m say I’m colliding here in Chicago in Minnesota and Iowa and I think is Kauai over here doesn’t Kauai would he wear a shirt much less a sweatshirt Brad that does my whole point you’re like hoodies crowd what is that yeah you know what it was actually my wife knows who these are so I just consulted with her nonetheless chuckles Darkon got some cool stuff on their travel mugs all shirts cool shirts support that way and you know you get a little item represent in the wild boom also support yourself with this one psychological warfare if you don’t know what that is which I know you already do but if you don’t it’s an album with tracks no music Jocko on there and these tracks are useful these are utility what you call functional tactical tracks to help you stay on the path we talked about getting distracted some people they’ll get distracted by comfort you know like the path the path has income is riddled with discomfort riddled and sometimes after a while that that discomfort can get to certain people at certain times so what this psychological warfare album does is it keeps you on the path so for example you want to wake up every day early that one day you’re distracted by the comfort of hitting the snooze button getting ten more 20 more minutes of sleep that’s bad that’s a distraction that’s a deviation from the path listen to psychological war from uh what’s the number number one I think doing nothing good after get up and get a listen to that what it is your alarm I dare you to hit snooze dare you jock will just tell you practically in a practical pragmatic way why you should not hit the snooze boom um I would say with 100% certainty that you will not hit the snooze and you will stay on the path and that goes for all these other things deviating from diet deviating from pushing yourself going to workout deviating from going to the gym in the first place going exactly right or if you have like this procrastination situation oh man that’s that’s the main one that you don’t like how you’re always like I should I need to do this I should do this just stop doing it yeah procrastination is pretty much the thing that’s going to keep you from doing it nonetheless if you procrastinate this a got a little solution for you too anyway psychological warfare jakka Lily look for it on iTunes or Amazon music by the way good that’s pretty cool also while you’re on Amazon you can get this book that we just covered today conversations with major dick winters Jaco white tea is also available on Amazon if you don’t want a drink oh so does you know which no one should be drinking sodas at all you don’t need them they’re actually horrible for you but remember when we’re eating sushi in New York and busted out the coke yeah I was oh I was gonna actually just I did I was surprised I thought that you weren’t gonna be my friend anymore innit like you realize I couldn’t believe it so anyways echo has this tradition great wishes to me he sounds like a shiver coated ally yes that when he eats sushi he has a glass bottle of coke so he hate that I overcame my hatred for him the best I could it’s kind of when I was talking today about like hey if you’re a fat you can’t look at everyone like hey this person Chester alright and if we add to be like okay that goes not a bad person yeah just mentally weak right now a little just deal with it don’t drink that drink jock a white tea which actually tastes better than coke there’s no doubt but it tastes better than coke subjective but are you serious right now I’m saying better as a subject yeah that everyone agrees with in the world put it side-by-side taste test there you go will go boom guarantee everybody cares give me that give me that give me the jock a white tea they don’t want that it’s syrup sugar I think you might be hundred forty seven percent Kirk I know absolutely will do a taste test only you can taste the coke because I’m not I’m not touching my lips to that stuff yes the minute one time they had a we have a PT situation we called a monster mash sure and it’s you just do a bunch of crazy events as we pull ups and rope climbs carry boats around and swim and we’re doing it when I was the oh I the officer in charge of trade net and so yeah oh I see trade so I brought my son with me mmm and a dead did this monster mash and one of the things you had to do in the Monster Mash this thing’s being timed in serration all know something you had to drink a full coca-cola through a straw oh my son’s doing the monster machine he’s probably 7 or something like that and he’d never even had a coke before we burned his mouth really yeah and he just hated it yeah yeah nasty to him yeah that’s how I looked at you the other back-kick look good you’re making me sick so I’ll go white tea you know go on there read the reviews as well you know you’ll see things like this excellent tea when I need to crush and power through all the work I brew be some choco white tea if I need a little extra kick to crush it that’s what I do I begun working fewer hours at the office as my productivity has risen 900 percent that’s pretty legit actual numbers yeah yeah and obviously that’s a 100% accurate because it came from an Amazon review so and and actually there’s a warning as well caution regarding this product leaving your supply of Java white tea out in the open will require overwatch I now have non tea drinkers hitting my reserves almost as badly as dedicated tea drinkers no double-blind study required right that’s this is the thing it doesn’t taste like tea right it doesn’t taste like tea in my opinion it tastes like piss like victory but it doesn’t make it so that’s that jaw collection get it on amazon com way to war your kid the book isn’t out as you know thank you for getting it kids have been crushing it it’s awesome that’s one of my favorite things that has happened to me in the past mid several years is people started posting pictures of their kids reading way the warrior kid yeah and that was awesome for me to see and I’ll tell you why it was awesome because I know I know those kids are reading that book and they’re thinking that they’re going to get a little bit better than a little bit stronger a little bit faster and a little bit smarter and they’re guys and people are sending me pictures of kids doing push-ups and kids doing a guy’s sent me a video of his kid you know how you have little night vision in your kid’s room so you can monitor them Oh like on the little monitor yeah little monitor only sent me a picture a video of the monitor the kids in a room after nighttime after said guess what the kids doing push up you doing push-ups why I wants to get stronger wants to get better so yeah get that if you got kids get it from if you’re an adult that’s cool get it anyways adults have a lot to learn from Uncle Jake myself included so run out go to your local book store and grab copies if they don’t have it in your local book store just tell them to get it so that other kids can see it and get it let’s make people better also you can pre-order discipline equals freedom Field Manual again that you can find it in the get after it section of any bookstore or online bookseller it is the only book in that section if your bookstore doesn’t have that section what you probably won’t tell them to get after it and make one and then put this one equals freedom there and copy of it for yourself extreme ownership yes the fundamental principles of combat leadership they will help you win in any capacity on the battlefield on the beat in business in life extreme ownership written by myself and my brother lathe davon you can get that book as well if you need more than the podcast and the book that’s fine ok contact the leadership and management consulting company a chillon front info at echelon front calm now the muster the muster we just got done with mustard 0:02 in New York City what’s your assessment psycho trust my system it was that it it was an upgrade it is it was an upgrade from the first one and that’s saying a lot because that first one was good I was like dang that was really impactful to the handler and I don’t really say like oh this event was impactful I don’t use that word not because I’m above enough like that but I’m just saying to say they got to be fro so that first one was yes this is really good from top to bottom like even K the material booms like all usable material all of it and then like I always say and I think people overlook this part a lot of time like just the social element it’s so easy to make friends with everyone because they all kind of have the same kind of interesting goals in one way or another there’s going to be some overlap there logistic part was fun too you know it’s like just a great event you know and then the second one and I wasn’t I’m be honest with you I wasn’t as fired up because it was in New York it’s like outside of the comfort zone the first one here san Diego’s like cool sweet I was like he was even better that’s that this past one was better yeah it was good getting great feedback awesome and like you said I think the important what one of the most important things you just said it’s very pragmatic yeah it’s not like it’s not like hey you’re going to learn some stuff but it’s not going to be really applicable no no no it’s gonna be applicable yeah you walk out when you finish that section and we get done talking about it boom you can even implement that immediately yeah it’s interesting you guys have like a lot of military stories and examples you know and then but when you go to the QA like all the people with their questions not one of them is military they’re all work maybe relationship maybe here and there but it’s like at work you know like I do yeah and exactly in every one of those situations we answer I’d say we answer with both business examples that we’ve experienced and military examples but yeah you you absolutely we’ve seen this is the thing we’ve seen it happened for whatever that little issue is that you’re having yeah seen it before you know I’ve seen before I’ve seen something like it we’ll be able to find an answer come to a conclusion and move forward with the techniques the principles that we talk about extreme leadership but it’s like this extreme ownership the book is an awesome way to get the fundamental principles but when you come to the event now you can really personalize it you know you can really make sense of it it’s just like learning jujitsu like it’s cool yeah watch the YouTube videos yeah also go to class also go to the seminar learn it from as many different angles as you can because the more angles you learn it from the better you the more proficient you’ll be at applying them to your world yeah and the yeah and that’s not you know you talk about jiu-jitsu another cool part about it is you know teach the jujitsu on the last day like you can come and actually like rope we’ll try to chill Jocko yeah come and bring it you did good cool you don’t come think about it most times like if you go to like a you know oh yeah I can go try to choke the guy at the end of it you can’t say like um hey I’m gonna go see this concert and then afterwards I’m gonna pick up guitar and yeah you know the solos with yeah Eric Clapton yeah exactly right that doesn’t happen and as you can yeah and this is like like actually choking up the person you know that’s like an added element you know I mean I got your roles like plenty of the guys and it’s just so cool to be like oh yeah you know we talking we talk about this and then get it on a stress you know and this is so anyways if you didn’t make it in New York City which was awesome Times Square we had a great time the next one we’re having July 13th and 14th in Austin Texas the Omni Barton Creek Resort & Spa now this is one thing that it just is what it is in New York we we were planning to do like 350 people and then we sold that out we opened it up for another 50 and we and we and we had to expand our room to get that and then that sold out and so then we we rearranged the or the situation in there to get more people in there it looks like in Austin we’re capped but we can’t get any bigger than the room that we’ve got and so it’s 350 so if you want to come sign up quick before it gets sold out because there’s no way we can expand it into more people so just be aware of that if you can’t make that for 13th and 14th of July 13th and 14th in Austin Texas San Diego California September 14th and 15th we’re back in San Diego for follow-on operations so come and get it while you’re waiting for the muster if you need to pass communications to myself or echo Charles we can be found on the interwebs Twitter Instagram plus ah we on that Facebook e echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing then thanks to everyone for listening to the podcast for sharing the podcast for supporting the podcast we really do appreciate it thanks the military personnel out there that are protecting our freedoms overseas and also the law enforcement the firefighters EMTs first responders that keep us safe here at home thanks to you all and to everyone for whatever your mission might be let’s think about dick winners personal quest very simple to excel in everything he did excel in everything he did we should do the same excel in everything we do from working – working out from the way we treat people to the way we treat ourselves Excel put forth your greatest effort in everything you do from the small seemingly meaningless tasks to the big goals as you attack those goals or as those goals start to grind you down remember the oppressive pure determined effort that dick winners taught us all and go out there and get after it so until next time this is echo and Jocko out
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