Jocko Podcast 39 w/ Echo Charles – Brave Men

This is Joo podcast number 39 with Echo Charles and me Joo Willink Good evening Ekko Good evening I heard of a high British officer who went over the battlefield just after the action was over American boys were still lying dead in their foxholes their rifles still grasped in firing position in their dead hands And the veteran English soldier remarked time and again in a sort of hushed eulogy spoken only to himself Brave men brave men and that is the name of the book we are going to delve into now brave men Then a few episodes ago we talked with Kieran Dardy war photographer and when we talked with him we talked about war correspondents as well And I wanted to get a war correspondent here And in this case the one that we’re going to be talking to is possibly the most famous war correspondent ever a guy by the name of Ernie Pile And we will join him now on a warship steaming towards an inevitable invasion The frontline soldier I knew lived for months like an animal and was a veteran in the cruel fierce world of death Everything was abnormal and unstable in his life He was filthy dirty ate if and when slept on hard ground without cover His clothes were greasy and he lived in a constant haze of dust pestered by flies and heat moving constantly deprived of all things that once meant stability things such as walls chairs floors windows faucets shelves CocaCola and the little matter of knowing that he would go to bed at night in the same place he had left in the morning The frontline soldier has to harden his inside as well as his outside or he would crack under the strain some thoughts from Ernie Pile out on a ship getting ready for this invasion talking about what the soldiers were like and he’d been in Africa and now he’s out there with sailors and he has something to say about the sailors as well Of course when sailors die death for them is just as horrible And sometimes they die in greater masses than soldiers But until the enemy comes over the horizon a sailor doesn’t have to fight A frontline soldier has to fight everything all the time It makes a difference in a man’s character And Ernie Pile goes on to talk about what he thinks of the frontline soldier Everyone by now knows how I feel about the infantry I’m a rabid one-man movement bent on tracking down and stamping out everybody else in the world who doesn’t fully appreciate the common frontline soldier And if I haven’t made myself perfectly clear in everything I say and everything I do that’s the same exact feeling that I have about the infantry respect and admiration And now he’s talking about what it was like what what’s going through their minds as they’re going to partake in this our invasion And you got to remember he’s going on invasion too When when he when these things are happening this is a war correspondent This isn’t somebody that’s reporting from some safe position And you and you’re going to see plenty of that here He’s going in so he can relate to what the troopers are going through mentally And this is a very really accurate description Back to the book I don’t believe one of us was afraid of the physical part of dying That isn’t the way it is The emotion is rather one of almost desperate reluctance to give up the future So you’re not afraid of the physical stuff It’s the reluctance to give up the future I suppose that’s splitting hairs and that it really all comes under the heading of fear Yet somehow there is a difference These gravely yearned for futures of men going into battle include so many things Things such as seeing the old lady again of going to college of staying in the Navy for a career of holding on your knee just once your own kid whom you’ve never seen of again becoming champion salesman of your territory or driving a cold truck around streets of Kansas City once more And yes even just sitting in the sun once more on the south side of a house in New Mexico When we huddled around together on the dark decks it was these little hopes and ambitions that made up the sum total of our worry at leaving rather than any visualization of physical agony to come Very very accurate now And I I I gotta say that with this book this is a a fairly fairly thick book What do we got? Almost 500 pages and I had to burn through big chunks of it to get to some of the stuff that I wanted to cover but there’s a lot of very important detail in here And one of the things that Ernie Pile was known for was capturing what it was like not for the big general not for the big strategist but what it was like to live every day as a as a grunt So the invasion takes place and I think this was the uh they they went into Italy and Ernie actually spent that invasion on the ship the initial part of the invasion and then he goes ashore and for whatever reason he gets sick He gets like sick ill Doesn’t get wounded but he just gets ill and he ends up in a field hospital And we’ve had several several books take us into field hospitals and we know that they are a horrible horrible place But there is some pretty glorious things that come out of those two And I’ll go to the book here It was flabbergasting to me to lie there and hear wounded soldiers cuss and beg to be sent right back to the fight Of course not all of them did that It depended on the severity of their wounds and on their individual personalities just as it would in peace time But at least a third of the less severely wounded men asked if they couldn’t return to duty immediately to all those fears that we just talked about and then you go into battle and you get wounded and the first thing you do when you get back to the aid station and say “Send me back to the front “ He goes into a specific case here One big blonde infantryman had slight flesh wounds in the face and the back of his neck He had a patch on his upper lip which prevented him from moving it and made him talk in a grave straightfaced manner that was comical I’ve never seen anybody so mad in my life He went from one doctor to another trying to get somebody to sign his card returning him to duty The doctors explained patiently that if he returned to the front his wounds would become infected and he would be a burden to his company instead of a help They tried to entice him by telling him there would be nurses back in the hospital But in his peaceful Oklahoma draw he retorted to hell with the nurses I want to get back to fighting Dying men were brought into our tent Men whose death rattle silenced the conversation and made us all thoughtful When a man was almost gone the surgeons would put a piece of gauze over his face He could breathe through it but we couldn’t see his face well Twice within five minutes chaplain came running One of those occasions haunted me for hours The wounded man was still semi-conscious The chaplain knelt down beside him and two ward boys squatted nearby The chaplain said “John I’m going to say a prayer for you “ Somehow this stark announcement hit me like a hammer It didn’t say “I’m going to pray for you to get well ” He just said he was going to say a prayer And it was obvious to me that he meant a final prayer He voiced the prayer and the weak gasping man tried vainly to repeat the words after him When he had finished the chaplain added “John you’re doing fine You’re doing fine ” Then he rose and dashed off on some other call and the ward boys went about their duties The dying man was left utterly alone just lying there on his litter on the ground lying in an aisle because the tent was full Of course it couldn’t be otherwise But the aloneeness of that man as he went through the last few minutes of his life was what tormented me I felt like going over and at least holding his hand while he died But it would have been out of order and I didn’t do it I wish now I had In addition to talking about the infantry he also talks about the engineers And for those of you that don’t know engineers are basically military construction people that build things They also do other jobs like getting rid of mines and doing mine clearance They do that often as well And we’ll go back to the book During the latter days of the Sicilian campaign I spent all my time with combat engineers of two different divisions The engineers were in it up to their ears Scores of times during the Sicilian fighting I heard everybody from generals to privates remark that this is certainly an engineers war And indeed it was Every foot of our advance upon the gradually withdrawing enemy was measured by the speed with which our engineers could open the highways clear the mines and bypass the blown bridges And this this was the same thing that we we had in Romani The the engineers were just absolutely first of all they were incredibly professional and their job was incredibly dangerous They were clearing mines They were doing these building these combat outposts in the middle of the city Are they armed? The engineer like in your case were Yeah they are But you know picture a guy that has to go and and move sandbags to the top of a building He’s he’s carrying a you know a 60 lb sandbag He’s got all of his gear on and and it’s a semi-protected area Not fully protected but so a lot of times hey they’re they’re they might have a pistol on them but they’re working They’re construction work they’re working construction Yeah You know now that doesn’t mean that they’re not also picking up security when they have to but man it’s a it’s a grueling grueling job and and so incredibly dangerous And the book also talks about other pieces You know again we talk about infantry but there’s other pieces There’s engineers who are doing all this building There’s artillery which is you know dropping bombs on the enemy And and actually that was another surprisingly there was art we utilize they utilized artillery fairly significantly in Romani Yeah that that it’s when you think about that like the engineers in a war zone right? It’s not like compared to like an MMA fight right? The cut man where he’s like facilitating all these things giving water whatever but that’s between rounds He’s not part of the fight The engineer guys straight up in Yeah They’re going to get hit But here’s the thing they’re not there specifically to fight They’re there to do some other stuff So it’s like man they can get blindsided like all that stuff It’s incredibly and and yet you know you think “Oh it’s engineers They’re construction guys ” You you maybe people don’t don’t see them in the light of being legit combat warriors And I’m here to tell you 100% without any shred of doubt those guys are hardcore combat warriors that have an incredibly tough job And obviously the American engineers have been just outstanding World War II I mean and when I saw them in Romani they were a sight to behold without question And same thing like I said I was talking about the artillery They used artillery in in Rammani as well which was which was it was pretty cool for me right? Cuz you know I always grew up watching World War II movies and and you know there I was in Ramadi man We had tanks out there in the streets smashing through smashing through buildings and firing their main gun rounds And then we had engineers out there rebuilding bridges and building combat outposts And then we had artillery that was firing counter battery out in at the enemy that was shooting mortars at us And at night time sometimes we’d fire illumination rounds just like a big assault in a World War II So it was very I was I feel very lucky to have been able to experience that that almost you know World War II type feeling And now again I’m not comparing anything that I did to a veteran from World War II by any stretch of the imagination but it was cool to get a little taste of it Just a little just a little taste of it Just a little taste of it And understand I mean I can’t you know we were you know the the imagine fighting against other troops that were as well trained as you were which is what you’re doing in Germany when you’re when you’re invading France you’re going against I mean the insurgents they’re they’re a hard fight They’re an enemy that I respect their capabilities but they’re not as well trained or as well organized or as well led as let’s say the German army in World War II right? So it’s a tough enemy And so as he continues through the book and as I said I I this is a big thick book and I had to really be selective about what to call out and he talks about the various phases of the war He talks a pretty big chunk about the air war but really it’s all leading towards one thing It’s all leading towards one event It’s all leading towards one invasion and that’s D-Day and he spends time in England You know they’re doing the preparation and they’re having they’re doing what the Americans did in England when they were getting ready And then finally they get the word that the mission is going to commence and we’ll go to the book We felt our chances were not very good and we were not happy about it Men like Don Whitehead and Clark Lee who had been through the mill so long and so boldly began to get nerves Frankly I was the worst of the lot and continued to be I began having terrible periods of depression and often would dream hideous dreams all the time Fear lay blackly deep upon our consciousness It bore down on our hearts like an all-consuming weight People would talk to us and we wouldn’t want to hear what they were saying Now those again those are the correspondents Those are the war correspondents That’s who he’s talking about When they when they bring them together they’re talking like a squad or a platoon of war correspondents And they are scared to death The army said they would try and give us 24 hours notice of departure Actually the call came at 9:00 one morning and we were ordered to be at a certain place with full field kit at 10:30 a m We threw our stuff stuff together Probably a smart way to do it you know Hey we’ll give you 24 hours advanced notice Don’t worry you know we’ll let you know Hey report in an hour because because and he he’s gonna talk about this The waiting isn’t is not good That is that is the stress part Y and it’s the same thing with everything Anything that actually you know like a jiu-jitsu tournament when you’re waiting to compete that’s the worst part Once you once you go okay your mind is free and you’re just doing what you do Even during a workout Yep If you got a hard workout that you’re going to do you’re dreading it And I do this I’ll be like like if I have squats and I’m sitting there I’ll make all kinds of maybe I need to stretch a little bit more And you know what? Let me just grab a little bit more water And uh and then let me check the lineup of the music that’s going to play and just make sure that that’s good to go And hold on Is this is this bumper plate look straight? I’m going to straighten that out So you just sit there and hem and then finally walk over You press you press your start on your stop stopwatch and then there’s no stopping You just go and it half an hour later the deed is done Yep But the waiting Yep It’s Yeah If it’s going down let’s get it over with kind of thing Yeah You know what? This is that Shakespeare quote that I read one time on here That that moment in between taking the action and when you think of the action and when you take the action that moment is an eternity Yeah An abyss Abyss So you got to close the distance on that thing which is exactly what they did Oh we’ll give you 24 hours No we’re going to close the distance You got an hour and a half Be here with your gear ready to get it on Back to the book Bill Stoneman another correspondent who had been wounded once never showed the slightest concern Whether he felt any concern or not I could not tell Bill had a humorous sardonic manner While we were waiting for a departure into the unknown he took out a pencil and a notebook as though starting to interview me Tell me Mr Pile how does it feel to be an assault correspondent? Being a man of few words I said it feels awful We had hardly got aboard when the lines were cast off and we pulled out That evening the colonel commanding the troops on our ship gave me the whole invasion plan in detail The secret the whole world had waited years to hear Once a man had heard it it became permanently part of it He became permanently part of it Then he was committed It was too late to back out Even if his heart failed him I asked a good many questions I realized my voice was shaking when I spoke but I couldn’t help it Yes it would be tough The colonel ad admitted our own part would be precarious He hoped to go in with as few casualties as possible but there would be casualties From a vague anticipatory dread the invasion now turned into a horrible reality for me In a matter of hours the Holocaust of our own planning would swirl over us No man could guarantee his own fate It was almost too much for me The feeling of utter desperation obsessed me throughout the night It was nearly 4:00 a m before I got to sleep And then it was asleep harassed and torn by an awful knowledge My devastating sense of fear and depression disappeared when we approached the beach head There was the old familiar crack and roar of big guns all around us And the shore was a great brown haze of smoke and dust And we knew that the bombers would be over us that night Yet all the haunting premonition the soul consuming dread was gone The war was prosaic to me again And I believe that was true of everyone aboard even those who had never been in combat before So again once this gig kicks off all that horror is gone and now it’s time to get the job done So when you’re out there in the world and you’re feeling that dread and you’re feeling that hesitation just step go Yep It’s not helping you to sit around and be nervous It’s not helping you to to see if you need another little sip of water before you start doing what you’re doing There’s bad news to deliver in your business There’s no sense in doing another pace lap outside the the room where people are waiting to hear from you Get in and get it going Now he he does a great job here telling about how hard this actually was because you know we go “Oh DDay yeah we Oh yeah it was a tough fight “ Here’s some detail on that I want to tell you what the opening of the second front in that one sector entailed so that you can know and appreciate and forever be humbly grateful to those both dead and alive who did it for you Aore facing us were more enemy troops than we had in our assault waves The advantages were all theirs the disadvantages all ours The Germans were dug into positions they had been working on for months although they were not entirely complete A 100 foot bluff a couple of hundred yards back from the beach had had great concrete gun imp placements built right into the hilltop These open to the sides instead of the front thus making it hard for naval fire from the sea to reach them They could shoot parallel to the shore and cover every foot of it for miles with artillery fire A 100 foot cliff By the way just don’t let’s not even worry about the enemy A 100 foot cliff after you come out of the water That’s what you’re facing Then you put pill boxes and you put Germans in those pill boxes By the way more Germans than there are Americans It’s a nightmare Back to the book Then they had hidden machine gun nests on the forward slopes with crossfire taking in every inch of the beach These nests were connected by networks of trenches so that the German gunners could move about without exposing themselves Throughout the length of the beach running zigzag a couple hundred yards back from the shoreline was an immense V-shaped ditch 15 ft deep Nothing could cross it not even men on foot until it fill until fills had been made And in other places at the far end of the beach where the ground was flatter they had concrete walls These were blasted by our naval gunfire or by explosives by hand After we got ashore our only exits from the beach were several swailes or valleys each one about 100 yards wide The Germans made the most of those funnel-like traps sewing them with buried mines They also contained barbed wire entanglements with mines attached hidden ditches and machine guns firing from the slopes This is just it’s it’s it’s unbelievable It’s unbelievable the amount of defenses that were in placed and the fact that we pushed through it And I humbly use the term we All this was done on the shore but our men had to go through a maze nearly as deadly before they even got ashore Underwater obstacles were terrific Under the water the Germans had whole fields of evil devices to catch our boats Several days after landing we had cleared only channels through them and still could not approach through the whole length of the beach with our ships Even then some ship or boat would hit one of those mines and be knocked out of commission The Germans had masses of great sixpronged spiders made of railroad iron and standing shoulder high just beneath the surface of the water for a landing craft to run into They had huge logs buried in the sand pointing upward and outward their tops just below the water Attached to the logs were mines In addition to these obstacles they had floating mines offshore Landmines buried in the sand of the beach and more mines checkerboard in checkerboard rows in the tall grass beyond the sand The and the enemy had four men on shore for every three men we had approaching the shore And yet we got on Going against a defended position is so very difficult The odds well in in doctrally in urban warfare You’re supposed to have 10 men for every one defender 10 men for every one defender And here we were out outmanned against a heavily defended fortified position So how do you do it? Well back to the book As one officer said the only way to take a beach is to face it and keep going It is costly at first but that is the only way If the men are pinned down on the beach dug in and out of action they may as well not be there at all They hold up the waves behind them and nothing is being gained So art of war sons who attack Well guess what? There’s only one way to do this You got to do it Now he talks about as the carnage after the after the initial beach head had been taken He talks about some of the carnage that remains there in this shoreline museum of carnage There were abandoned rolls of barbed wire and smash boulder dozers and big stacks of thrown away life belts and piles of shells still waiting to be moved In the water floated empty life rafts and soldiers packs and ration boxes and mysterious oranges On the beach lay snarred rolls of telephone wire and big rolls of steel matting and stacks of broken rusting rifles But there was another and more human litter It extended in a thin little line just like a high water mark from miles along the beach This was the strewn personal gear Gear that would never be needed again by those who fought and died to give us our entrance into Europe There in a jumbled row for mile on mile were soldiers packs There were socks and shoe polish sewing kits diaries Bibles hands gren hand grenades There were the latest letters from home with the address on each one neatly razored out one of the security precautions enforced before the boys embarked There were toothbrushes and razors and snapshots of families back home staring up at you from the sand There were pocketbooks metal mirrors extra trousers and bloody abandoned shoes There were brokenhandled shovels and portable radios smashed almost beyond recognition and mind detectors twisted and ruined There were torn pistol belts and canvas water buckets first aid kits and jumbled heaps of life belts I picked up a pocket Bible with a soldier’s name in it and put it in my jacket I carried it half a mile or so and then put it back down on the beach I don’t know why I picked it up or why I put it down again Soldiers carry strange things with them ashore In every invasion there’s at least one soldier hitting the beach at 8 H hour with a banjo slung over his shoulder The most ironic piece of equipment marking our beach The first this beach first of despair then of victory was a tennis racket that some soldier had brought along It lay lonesomely on the sand clamped in its press not a string broken Two of the most dominant items on the beach refugees in the beach refues were cigarettes and writing paper Each soldier was issued a carton of cigarettes just before he started That day those cartons by the thousand water soaked and spilled out marked the line of our first savage blow Writing paper and air mail envelopes came second The boys intended to do a lot of writing in France Imagine the letters now forever incapable of being written that might have filled those blank abandoned pages Now talking a little bit about the German prisoners as they start to roll up German prisoners Some of the German officers were pleased at being captured But the died in the but the died in the wool Nazi was not They brought in a young one who was furious He considered it thoroughly unethical for us to fight so hard That’s right Did you heard what I said? He thought it was unethical how hard the Americans fought The Americans had attacked all night and the Germans don’t like a night attacks We’re coming to get you And this special fellow was brought in When this special fellow was brought in he protested in rage You Americans the way you fight that is this is not war This is madness The German was so outraged he never even got the irony of his own remarks That madness though it were it worked Another high-ranking officer was brought in and the first thing he asked was the whereabouts of his personal orderly When told that his orderly was dead than a mackerel he flew off the handle and accused us of depriving him of his personal comfort “Who’s going to dig my foxhole for me?” he demanded little German aristocracy going on in the ranks But what a uh what a testament You know I was just kind of talking about how tough the Germans were which they certainly were But here’s the Germans saying “Good Lord it’s unethical that you fight this hard ” That’s right The Germans thought they were rolling light you know? Yeah Hey let’s roll light And the Americans were like “No we’re going 80 style right now ” Yeah I don’t know It’s on This is the World Championships Literally the World Championships I always uh you know American the American fighting spirit is a powerful powerful force and sometimes people don’t recognize that cuz you know what? We’re living here pretty good and even back then now we were coming out of the depression So you did have some hard living back in America Yeah but you can trace that pre-epression Americans fight hard There’s no doubt about it And I can I have personally personally witnessed the spirit of the American soldier and it is a damn impressive thing Going to get into some well the name of the chapter here is street fighting Sweet One of one of the favorite generals among war correspondents was Major General Manton S Eddie commander of the Ninth Division We liked him because he was absolutely honest with us because he was sort of an old shoe and easy to talk with and because we thought he was a mighty good general General Eddie looked more like a school teacher than a soldier He was a big tall man but he wore glasses and his eyes had a sort of squint Being a wid Midwesterner he talked like one He still claimed Chicago as home although he’d been an army officer for 28 years He was wounded in the last war He was not glib but he talked well and laughed easily In spite of being a professional soldier he despised war and like an any ordinary soul was appalled by the waste and tragedy of it He wanted to win and get home just as badly as anybody else General Eddie especially liked to show up in places where his soldiers wouldn’t expect to see him Little leadership lessons right now from General Eddie Nothing wrong with smiling talking with the boys knowing what’s going on and then boom show up in places where his soldiers wouldn’t expect to see him He knew it helped the soldiers spirits to see their commanding general right up there at the front where it was hot So he walked around the front with his long stride never ducking or appearing to be concerned at all One day I rode around with him on one of his tours We stopped at a command post and were sitting on the grass under a tree looking at maps with a group of officers around us Our own military was near banging nearby but nothing was coming our way Then like a flash of lightning there came a shell just over our head so low it went right through the treetops it seemed It didn’t whine It wished It swished Everybody including full colonels flopped over and began grabbing grass The shell exploded in the next orchard General Eddie didn’t move He just said “That was one of our shells “ The general also liked to get up at 4:00 in the morning once in a while to go poking around into the message centers and mess giving the boys a start Sounds like he was a little bit of an early riser Was trying to be up before the enemy He was definitely up before the enemy Well apparently you know the Germans they were saying “Hey it’s night time ” Yeah Yeah Need some rest over here During the Sheerborg Peninsula campaign I spent nine days with the Ninth Infantry Division the division that cut the peninsula and one of the three that overwhelmed the great port of Shermooge The Ninth is one of our best divisions It landed in Africa and fought through Tunisia and Sicily Then it went to England in the fall of 1943 and trained all winter for the invasion of France It was one of the American divisions in the invasion that had previous battle experience The Ninth did something in that campaign that we hadn’t always done in the past It kept tenaciously on the enemy’s neck When the Germans would withdraw a little the Ninth was right on top of them It never gave them a chance to reassemble or get their balance The ninth moved so fast it got to be funny I was based at the division command post and we struck our tents and moved forward six times in seven days That worked the daylights out of the boys who took down and put up the tents I overheard one of the boys saying “I’d rather be with Ringling Brothers but that’s a little strategic importance there ” The ninth was just “Oh you’re oh we’re we’re going to get you and we’re going to come after you and we’re not going to stop You’re not going to get a chance to recover You’re not going to get a chance to rest “ Sometimes you got to go in that mode No matter what what you’re doing in life sometimes you got to go in that mode You don’t back off And I’ll tell you what you want to rest People want to rest Yep But sometimes you can’t Sometimes you need to keep the pressure on Kind of like you and Twitter Yes had to keep some pressure on Yep One day I went along quite accidentally I assure you with an infantry company that had been assigned to clean out a pocket in the suburbs of Sher Bouge Since the episode was typically of the way an infantry advanced into the city held by a com by an enemy I would like to try and give you a picture of it So he’s going to try and like explain what that was like The soldiers around us had two weeks growth of beard And before he talks about the assault he kind of gives you a little update on this on the front line infantry troops The soldiers around us had two weeks growth of beard Their uniforms were worn worn slick and very dirty The uncomfortable gas impregnated clothes they had come ashore in come ashore in The boys were tired They had been fighting and moving constantly forward on foot for nearly three weeks without rest sleeping on the ground wet most of the time always tense eating cold rations seeing their friends die One of them came up to me and said almost belligerently “Why don’t you tell the folks back home what this is like? All they hear about is victories and a lot of the glory stuff They don’t know that for every hundred yards we advance somebody gets killed Why don’t you tell them how tough this life is?” I told him that I tried to do that all the time This fellow was pretty fed up with it all He said he didn’t see why his outfit wasn’t sent home They had done all the fighting That wasn’t true at all for there were other divisions that had fought more and taken heavier casualties Exhaustion will make a man feel like that A few days rest usually has him smiling again You know we’ve heard this time and time again Sometimes you start get that mental fatigue You got to take a little breather So yeah like the ninth sometimes you got to keep the pressure on but if you start to break people maybe it’s time especially an individual And you know Dick Wyinners did this band of brothers Dick Wyinners beyond beyond the band of brothers He talked about “Hey I got this guy that’s a little losing the bubble but pull him back Hey you got some admin stuff to do in the rear Why don’t you go ahead and take care of that?” Boom Done Let this guy heal up That’s what this guy needs He needs a break He needs a rest And here we get the little briefing Little briefing from the lieutenant who’s going to tell them how they’re going to push through this little and clear out this little pocket of enemy resistance This is how we’ll do it The lieutenant said a rifle platoon goes first Right behind them will go a part of the heavy weapons platoon with machine guns to cover the first platoon Then comes another rifle platoon Then a small section with mortars in case they run into something pretty heavy Then another rifle platoon and bringing up the rear the rest of the heavy weapons outfit to protect us from behind We don’t know what we’ll run into and I don’t want to stick right out in front So why don’t you come along with me? So he’s talking to Ernie Pile at that point saying “Listen I don’t know what’s going to be up front You stick with me We’ll go in the middle of the company “ I said “Okay “ By this time I wasn’t scared You seldom are once you’re into something Anticipation is the worst Fortunately this little foray came up so suddenly there wasn’t time for much anticipation The waiting So they take they start taking a little fire and finally the shells stop And here we go The shells stopped and finally the order to start was given As we left the protection of a high wall we had to cross a little covert right out in the open and then make a turn in the road The men went forward one at a time They crouched and ran ape like ape-like across this dangerous space Then beyond the covert they filtered to either side of the road stopping and squatting down every now and then to wait a few moments The lieutenant kept yelling at them as they started “Spread it out now Do you want to draw fire at yourselves? Don’t bunch up like that Keep five yards apart Spread it out Damn it There’s an almost irresistible pull to get close to somebody when you’re in danger In spite of themselves the men would run up close to the fellow ahead of them for company But obviously if you’re close to your you’re close to people and one well first of all one bullet can kill two people but if you get hit with a bomb you get hit with a grenade you’re going to kill multiple people So you want to disperse You want to keep your dispersion You want to spread out But there’s this little thing that people want to just get close to other people and everybody knows it’s wrong And actually if you remember in the uh in the beloved captain that’s what he was constantly saying “Guys spread out in the trench Don’t Hey don’t bunch jump ” And the and and the author was saying “We all just wanted to huddle together You want to get closer together You’re in fear So you want to huddle and it’s the wrong move “ Now we get into a description of the men as they’re making this cross The men didn’t talk amongst themselves They just went They weren’t heroic figures as they moved forward one at a time a few seconds apart You think of attackers as being savage and bold These men were hesitant and cautious They were really the hunters but they looked like the hunted There was a confused excitement and a grim anxiety in their faces They seemed terribly pathetic to me They weren’t warriors They were American boys who by mere chance of fate had wound up with guns in their hands sneaking up deathladen street in a strange and shattered city in a farway country in a driving rain They were afraid but it was beyond their power to quit They had no choice They were good boys I talked with them all afternoon as we sneaked slowly inward along the mysterious and rubbled street And I know they were good boys And even though they weren’t warriors born to kill they won their battles That’s the point regular guys World War II regular guys and and it’s it’s not depicted they’ll throw a character like that into a movie Mhm You know oh he’s you know just looks like a regular guy but most of the guys don’t they don’t look regular guys They look like badass war hero guys Mhm And this is such a you don’t hear this description where he’s literally saying um they weren’t warriors They seemed terribly pathetic And so you picture these guys they got this scared strained look on their face and guess what? They do their job Yeah And they do it well Yeah It’s strange It’s almost like you can look at them in both ways cuz on one hand they’re just regular guys but when you see them in action kind of thing you’re like “Oh dang They’re getting at They’re warriors you know like true I mean I And clearly the warriors that like you said they win their battles Yeah And even what they’re doing right now takes massive courage You’re just getting ready to step across the street where you know there’s a machine gun fire could open up and take your life or take your legs or you know wound you That that takes some will That takes some discipline Yeah I mean how can you not just cower in the first corner you see really? you know when you compare it to everyday life man I mean I don’t I hate to I don’t hate but I I can’t help but compare it to Saving Private Ryan that that movie right? And and there’s a part where they indicate that everyone’s been trying to guess um the the the job of the Oh yes Captain Miller or whatever They’re trying to guess it right? And so that was like an exposure of like yeah this is the humanity back in Yeah you know back then And then he’s like “Yeah I’m a school teacher ” And all this stuff all this like normal stuff And then meanwhile as the movie kind of prog you see him in action it’s like “Dang for a school teacher these guys are you know they’re really getting the job done ” Well I’ll tell you man we were when I first got to Romani we were there with the uh the 228 which is a which is a reserve unit from Pennsylvania the Iron Soldiers and led by a guy at the time was named Colonel Gransky He’s now a general But those guys were school teachers They were I mean because they were service So there was guys there were school teachers There was guys there that were plumbers There was guys there that were cable installers There were guys there that were mechanics There was guys there that were lawyers There just every job Yeah And yet these guys were there fighting Straight up warriors and getting after it by the way Battleh hardardened Yeah And re really they were they were so impressive We were so humbled by these guys These reserves They were badass nothing but again nothing but respect and adm if let’s say you didn’t know their job outside of the you know the battle and you see them you’re like dang these guys are straight up this is their thing this is what their their primary career is you know that’s what it seems like and I’ll tell you I mean I just was out in Mississippi and I was with a bunch of guys that were reserves in Mississippi And one of the guys I was talking to I mean m multiple guys that I was talking to they had multiple deployments to Iraq And and these are 12-month deployment 14-month deployments These guys were awesome awesome guys awesome professionals who had taken the flight to the enemy So it’s amazing that that America has these these reservists that live their lives and then oh by the way you’re going to go on deployment to Iraq for 14 months right now and get after it and then you’re going to come back and and go into your normal job again Fall right back in Yeah And go and just be straight up effective Yep Not like they’re there like timid you know cuz I’m hey I’m just here for 14 months back home I’m you know I work at office whatever They’re like nope Watch me work Watch me get it watch me get it on So um we get to a point now that you know that street fight continues They take down they clear that pocket there’s more combat description but now they’re getting ready to push out of Normandy Beach out They So they’ve taken the beach they’ve secured it they’ve taken some hedge they’ve got it locked in It’s been it’s been you know some time but now they’re getting ready to start making the push making the push out of there And so that’s what this is This is going to be a massive massive attack and they’re getting ready to get a brief and here we go back to the book The regimental colonel stood in the center of the officers and went over the orders in detail Battalion commanders took down notes in their little books Then General Barton arrived The colonel called attention and everybody stood rigid until the general gave them carry on An enlisted man ran to the mess truck and got a folding stool for the general to sit on He sat listening intently while the colonel wound up his instructions The general stepped into the center of the circle He stood at a slouch on one foot with the other leg far out like a brace He looked all around him as he talked He didn’t talk long He said “This is one of the finest regiments in the American army It was the last regiment out of France in the last war It was the first regiment into France in this war It has spearheaded every one of the divisions attacks in Normandy It will spearhead this one “ For many years this was my regiment and I feel very close to you and very proud The general’s lined face was a study in emotion Sincerity and deep sentiment were in every contour and they shone from his eyes General Barton was a man of deep affections The tragedy of war both personal and impersonal hurt him At the end his voice almost broke and I for one had a lump in my throat He ended “That’s all God bless you and good luck “ And with that they begin this massive operation The first planes of the mass onslaught came over a little before 10:00 a m They were the fighters and dive bombers The main road running crosswise in front of us was their bomb line They were to bomb only on the far side of that road Our infantry had been pulled back a few hundred yards from the near side of the road Everyone in the area had been given the strictest orders to be in foxholes for highlevel bombers can and do quite excusably make mistakes So did you understand that right there? Mhm So there’s a very clear road and they say “Listen the bombers are going to be bombing the other side of that road but we’re going to back further away from the road just in case something goes wrong just in case bombs get dropped early Obviously this indicates I’m I’m pointing that out for a reason because this is gets horrible Our front lines were marked by long strips of colored cloth laid on the ground with colored smoke to guide our airmen during the mass bombers bombing Dive bombers hit it just right We stood and watched them barrel nearly straight down out of the sky They were bombing about a half a mile ahead of where we stood They came in groups diving in every direction perfectly timed one after another Everywhere we looked separate groups of plane were on planes were on their way down or on their way back up or slanting over for a dive or circling circling circling over our heads and waiting for their turn So I want you to picture what this is like Picture what this is like And you don’t don’t picture that you’re watching it in a movie because that’s I understand that it’s easy to picture it Okay I want you to put your mind in this situation Can you imagine what that looks like? These your the plane the the sky is basically filling with planes and they’re making these incredibly aggressive attacks and this piece which I’m about to read a big chunk This is one of the most magnificent descriptions of war I have read Here we go The air was full of sharp and distinct sounds of cracking bombs and the heavy rips of the planes machine guns and the splintering screams of diving wings It was all fast and furious yet distinct And then a new sound gradually droned into our ears A deep sound an all-encompassing with no notes in it just a gigantic faraway surge of doomlike sound It was the heavies And so now he’s talking about the heavy bombers that are going to bring the thunder And there’s so many of them And they’re so loud it just drones out every other sound until just this massive faraway surge of a doomlike sound It was the heavies They came from directly behind us At first they were the meest dots in the sky We could see the clots of them against the far heavens Too tiny to count individually They came on with a terrible slowness They came in flights of 12 Three flights to a group and in groups stretched out across the sky They came in families of about 70 planes each Maybe those gigantic waves were 2 miles apart Maybe they were 10 miles I don’t know But I do know they came in constant procession And I thought it would never end What the Germans must have thought is beyond comprehension The flight across the sky was slow and studied I’ve never known a storm or a machine or any resolve of man that had about it the aura of such a ghastly relentlessness I had the feeling that even had God appeared beseechingly before them in the sky with palms outstretched to persuade them back they would not have had the power within them to turn from their irresistible course This is just that’s such an incredible description of of this impending doom I stood with a little group of men ranging from colonels to privates back to the stone farmhouse Slit trenches were all around the edges of the farmyard and a dugout with a tin roof was nearby But we were so fascinated by the spectacle overhead that it never occurred to us that we might need the foxholes The first huge flight passed directly overhead and others followed We spread our feet and leaned far back trying to look straight up until our steel helmets fell off We’d cup our fingers around our eyes like field glasses for a clearer view And then the bombs came They began like the crackle of popcorn and almost instantly swelled into a monstrous fury of noise that seemed surely to destroy all the world ahead of us From then on for an hour and a half that had in it the agonies of centuries the bombs came down A wall of smoke and dust erected by them grew high in the sky It filtered along the ground back through our orchards It sifted around us and into our noses The bright day grew slowly dark from it By now everything was an indescribable cauldron of sounds Individual noises did not exist The thundering of the motors in the sky and the roar of bombs ahead filled all the space for noise on the earth Our own heavy artillery was crashing all around us yet we could hardly hear it The Germans began to shoot heavy high AAC Great puffs of of it by the score speckled the sky until it was hard to distinguish smoke puffs from planes And then someone shouted that one of the planes was smoking Yes we could all see it A faint line of black smoke stretched straight for a mile behind one of them And as we watched there were a gigantic sweep of flame over the plane From nose to tail it disappeared in flame And it slanted slowly down and banked around the sky in great wide curves this way and that as rhythmically and gracefully gracefully as in a slow motion waltz Then suddenly it seemed to change its mind and swept upward steeper and steeper and ever slower until finally it seemed poised motionless on its own black pillar of smoke And then just as slowly as it had turned over and dived for the earth a golden spearhead on the straight black shaft of its own creation and disappeared behind the treetops But before it was down there were more cries of there’s another one smoking and there’s a third one now Shoots came out of some of the planes Out of some came no shoots at all One of the white silk caught on the tail of a plane Men with binoculars could see him fighting to get loose until flames swept over him And then a tiny black dot fell through space all alone And all that time the great flat ceiling of the sky was roofed by other planes that didn’t go down plowing their way forward as if there were no turmoil in the world Nothing deviated them by the slightest They stalked on slowly and with a dreadful paw of sound as though they were seeing only something at a great distance and nothing existed between God how we admired those men up there and sickened for the ones who fell Incredible It is possible to become so enthralled by some of the spectacles of war that man is momentarily captivated away from his own danger That’s what happened to our little groups of group of soldiers as we stood watching the mighty bombing But that benign state didn’t last long As we watched there crept into our consciousness a realization that the windrosses of exploding bombs were easing back towards us flight by flight instead of gradually forward as the plan called for Then we were horrified by the suspicion that those machines high in the sky and completely detached from us were aiming their bombs at the smoke line on the ground and a gentle breeze was drifting the smoke line back over us An indescribable kind of panic came over us We stood tensed in muscle and frozen in intellect watching each flight approach and pass over feeling trapped and completely helpless And then all of an instant the universe became filled with gigantic rattling of as it of huge ripe seeds in a mammoth dry gourd I doubt that any of us had ever heard that sound before But instinct told us what it was It was bombs by the hundred hurdling down through the air above us Many times I’d heard bombs whistle or swish or rustle but never before had I heard bombs rattle I still don’t know what the explanation of it but it was an awful sound We dived Some got into a dugout others made foxholes and ditches and some got behind a garden wall Although which side would be behind was anybody’s guess I was too late for the dugout The nearest place was a wagon shed which formed on one end of the stone house The rattle was right down upon us I remember hitting the ground flat all spread out like the cartoons of people flattened by steamrollers and then squirming like an eel to get under one of the heavy wagon wheel wagons in the shed An officer whom I didn’t know was wriggling beside me We stopped at the same time simultaneously feeling it was hopeless to move further The bombs were already crashing around us We lay with our heads slightly up like two snakes staring at each other I know it was in both our minds and in our eyes asking each other what to do Neither of us knew We said nothing We just lay sprawled gaping at each other in a futile appeal our faces about a foot apart until it was over There is no description of the sound and fury of those bombs except to say it was chaos and a waiting for darkness The feeling of the blast was sensational The air struck us in hundreds of continuing flutters Our ears drumed and rang We could feel quick little waves of concussion on our chest and in our eyes At last the sound the sound died down and we looked at each other in disbelief Gradually we left the foxholes and sprawling places and came out to see what the sky had in store for us As far as we could see other waves were approaching from behind When a wave would pass a little to the side of us we were grateful for most of them flew directly overhead Time and time again the rattle came down over us Bomb struck in the orchard to our left They struck into the orchards ahead of us They struck as far as a mile behind us Everything about us was shaken but our group came through unhe hurt I can’t record what any of us actually felt or thought during those horrible climaxes I believe a person’s feelings at such time are kaleidoscopic and indefinable He just waits That’s all with an inhuman tenseness of muscle and nerves An hour or so later I began to get sore all over And by mid-afternoon my back and shoulders achd as though I’d been beaten with a club It was simply the result of muscles tensing themselves too tight for too long against anticipated shock When we came out of our sprawling and stood up again to watch we knew that the error had been caught and checked The bombs were falling again where they were intended a mile or so ahead Even at a mile away a thousand bombs hitting within a few seconds can shake the earth and shatter the air There was still a dread in our hearts but it gradually eased as the tomalt and destruction moved slightly forward It seems incredible to me that any German could have come out of that bombardment with his sanity When it was over even I was grateful in a chassened way that I had never experienced before for just being alive I thought an attack by our troops was impossible then for it is an unnerving thing to be bombed by your own planes During the bad part a colonel I had known a long time was walking up and down behind the farmhouse snapping his fingers and saying over and over again to himself “God damn it! God damn it!” As he passed me once he stopped and stared and said “God damn it “ And I said “There can’t be any attack now can there?” and he said no and began walking again snapping his fingers and tossing his arms as though he were throwing rocks at the ground The leading company of our battalion was to spearhead the attack 40 minutes after the heavy bombing ceased The company had been hit directly by our bombs Their casualties including casualties in shock were heavy Men went to pieces and had to be sent back The company sha was shattered and shaken Yet company B attacked and on time to the minute they attacked and within the hour sent back word that they advanced 800 yards through German territory and were still going around our farmyard Men with stars on their shoulders almost wept when the word came over the portable radio The American soldier can be majestic when he needs to be I’m sure that back in England that night other men bomber crews wept And maybe they did really in the awful knowledge that they had killed our own American troops But the chaos and bitterness there in the orchards and between the hedge that afternoon soon passed After the bidden bitterness came the sober remembrance that the Air Force was the strong right arm in front of us Not only at the beginning but ceaselessly and everlastingly Every moment of the faintest daylight the Air Force was up there banging away ahead of us Anybody made mistakes The enemy made them just the same as we did The smoke and confusion of battle bewildered us on the ground as well in the air And in this case the percentage of error was really very small compared to the colossal storm of bombs that fell upon the enemy The air force was wonderful throughout the invasion and the men on the ground appreciated it So obviously we talk about blue on blue a lot here I think that’s about as an extreme example as I’ve ever heard of And you know the blue-onblue thing is such a nightmare because it’s your own people It’s your own people and it’s a lack of communication and it’s the fog of war and you can’t do anything You can’t shoot back All you can do is sit there and wait And it’s amazing One of those company that was scheduled to attack is so shaken up that they can’t go forward But then the other company just go “We got this Step aside “ Now the attack starts pushing forward and we get a little description of one of the commanders The commander of the regiment was one of my favorites He was a regular army colonel and he was overseas in the last war His division commander said the only trouble with him was that he if was that he got too bold and if he weren’t careful he was liable to get clipped some fine day when tired and dirty he could have played a movie gangster but either way his eyes always twinkled He had a faculty for direct thought that was outstanding The colonel went from one battalion to another during the battle during battle from early light until darkness He wore a new new type field jacket that fitted him like a sack and he carried a long stick that Teddy Roosevelt had given to him He kept constantly proddding his commanders to push hard not to let up and keep driving and driving He was impatient with his commanders who lost the main point of the war by getting involved in the details The main point of course being to kill Germans His philosophy of war was expressed in the simple formula of shoot the son of Once I was at a battalion command post when we got word that 60 Germans were coming down the road in a counterattack Everybody got excited They called the colonel on a field fold gave him on the field phone gave him details and asked him what to do He had the solution in a nutshell in a nutshell He said shoot the sons of and hung up Got to keep things simple and you got to keep your your tasks very focused You know what’s all this complication? We’re here to kill Germans so kill them sons of Now we get to a younger soldier that he goes through a description of Clayton’s weirdest This guy named Clayton Clayton’s weirdest experience would be funny if it weren’t so filled with pathos He was returning with a patrol one moonlit night when the enemy opened up on them Tommy leaped right through a hedge and spotting a foxhole plunged into it To his amazement and fright there was a German in that foxhole sitting pretty holding a machine pistol in his hands Clayton shot him three times in the chest before you could say scat The German hardly moved And then Tommy realized the man had been killed earlier He had been shooting a corpse All his experiences seemed to have had no effect on his mild on this mild soldier from Indiana except perhaps to make him even quieter than before The worst experience of all is just the accumulated blur and the hurting vagueness of being too long in the lines The everlasting alertness the noise and fear the cell by cell exhaustion the thinning of surrounding ranks as day follows nameless day and the constant march into eternity of one’s own small quota of chances for survival Those are the things that hurt and destroy And soldiers like Tommy Clayton went back to them because they were good soldiers and they had a duty they could not define mental stress Now they continue to push through They take Paris And it’s really incredible to to hear what that was like Then you should definitely buy this book and read it And here’s how he closes it out The final chapter is being written in the latter part of August 1944 It is being written under an apple tree in a lovely green orchard on the interior of France It could well be that the European war will be over and done by the time you read this book Or it might not But the end is inevitable and it cannot be put off for long The German is beaten and he knows it It will seem odd when at some given hour the shooting stops and everything suddenly changes again It will be odd to drive down an unknown road without that little knot of fear in your stomach Odd not to listen with animallike alertness for the meaning of every distant sound Odd not to have your spirit Odd to have your spirit released from the perpetual weight that is compounded of fear and death and dirt and noise and anguish The end of war will be a gigantic relief but it cannot be a matter of hilarity for most of us Somehow it would seem sacriiggious to sing and dance when the great day comes There are so many who can never sing and dance again Many many thousands of Americans have come to join the ones who have already slept in France for a quarter of a century For some of us the war has already gone on too long Our feelings have been rung and drained They cringe from the effort of coming alive again Even the approach of the end seems to have brought little inner elation It has only brought a tired sense of relief I do not pretend that my own feeling is the spirit of our armies If it were we probably would not have the power to win Most men are stronger Our soldiers still can hate or glorify or be glad with true emotion For them death has a pang and victory a sweet scent But for me war has become a fiat Black depression without highlights a revulsion of the mind and an exhaustion of the spirit The war in France has been especially vicious because it was one of the it was one of the enemy’s last stands We have won because of because of many things We have won partly because the enemy was weakened from our other battles The war in France is our grand finale But the victory here is the result of all other victories that went before It is a result of Russia and the western desert and the bombings and the blocking of the sea It is a result of Tunisia and Sicily and Italy We must never forget or belittle those campaigns We have won because we have had magnificent top leadership at home and in our allies and with ourselves overseas Surely America made its two perfect choices in General Eisenhower and General Bradley They are great men to me doubly great because they are direct and kind We won because we are audacious One could not help but be moved by the colossus of our invasion It was a bold and mighty thing one of the epics of all history In the emergency of war our nation’s powers are unbelievable The strength we have spread around the world is appalling even to those who make up the individual cells of that strength I am sure that in the past two years I have heard soldiers say a thousand times “If only we could have created all this energy for something good “ But we rise above our normal powers only in times of destruction We have won this war because our men are brave and because of many other things Because of Russia and England and the passage of time and the gifts of natural materials we did not win it because destiny created us better than all other peoples I hope that in victory we are more grateful than we are proud I hope we can rejoice in victory but humbly the dead men would not want us to gloat The end of one war is a great feder broken from around our lives But there is still another to be broken The Pacific War may yet be long and bloody Nobody can foresee but it would be disastrous to approach it with easy hopes Our next few months at home will be torn between the new spiritual freedom of half peace and the old grinding blur of half war It will be a confusing period for us Thousands of men will be returning to you soon They have been gone a long time and they have seen and done things and felt things you cannot know They will be changed They will have to learn how to adjust themselves to peace Last night we had a violent electrical storm around our countryside The storm was half over before we realized that the flashes and the crashings around us were not artill artillery but plain old-fashioned thunder and lightning It will be odd to hear only thunder again You must remember that such little things as that are in our souls and will take time And all of us together will have to learn how to reassemble our broken world into a pattern so firm and so fair that another great war cannot soon be possible To tell the simple truth most of us over in France don’t pretend to know the right answer Submersion and war does not necessarily qualify a man to be the master of peace All we can do is fumble and try once more try out of the memory of our anguish and be as tolerant with each other as we can And this book was dedicated by Ernie Pile And I’m going to read the dedication now In solemn salute to those thousands of our comrades great brave men that they were for whom there will be no homecoming ever and Ernie Pile did get to experience homecoming Unfortunately it was not joyous and it was not long He he battled with depression and emotional turmoil over his experiences in war And you could hear him talking about those And also his wife who had some kind of mental issues and she’d actually been hospitalized And so he was distressed and depressed about that And on top of that the war was not over for him And he mentioned there in the end that there’s only half peace because there was still a war in the Pacific And he knew that And in personal letters and in conversations that he had with his friends he explained a personal foroding a sense that he would not live through the war But when he was asked by the Department of the Navy to join the battle against Imperial Japan in the Pacific he reluctantly maybe fearfully but dutifully agreed to go And it was there in the Pacific on a tiny island called Eshima just off the coast of Okinawa that Ernie Pile was shot and killed by a single sniper bullet and members of the 77th Infantry Division who had been there with for the operation quickly marked where he was killed with a sign that read at this spot The 77th Infantry Division lost a buddy Ernie Pile on 18 April 1945 So Mr Pile thank you for your service and your sacrifice and to the journalists that are out there now in this day especially the war journalists who take risks to record and report history Thank you for what you do Again the book is called Brave Men by Ernie Pile and it will give you some real insight into the nature of war Echo the world is a crazy place and it’s amazing that you can live the life that we live And some people go through lives their life without ever even even just brushing against this madness And I’ll I’ll say this for the thousandth time I believe that it is important to delve into these things so that you learn not just about leadership but about life and how precious and glorious life is And life has ups and downs It has good and bad It has darkness and light And everybody’s life makes those transitions And having darkness in the world or in your life does not exclude the light In fact I think it makes that light just a little bit brighter And so when we we don’t have to stay here in the darkness we can go We’ve paid our respects and we will continue to pay our respects as we go forward And with that I guess it’s a good time to answer some questions from the interwebs From the interwebs Sure And actually before we get into questions from the interwebs speaking of interwebs there’s kind of some ways that you can utilize the other the interwebs for other things Yep One of them is and by the way this for those of you that don’t know now Ekko is going to say some stuff about the interwebs and about supporting the podcast You know what I’m going to do? I’m going to I’m going to like I’m going to hit a switch and do a little decompression I’m going to drink some I’m going to drink some white tea over here with a little pomegranate and I’m going to get a little adjustment a little mindset change get into the zone for answering some questions Sure So there’s there’s actually a dual purpose for Echko’s discussion of how to support the podcast Yes Shows you how to support the podcast which is much appreciated Mhm Also I can decompress for a minute Yep from being bombed by my own planes from being stressed from being back in the war zone World War II style Bro how he describes it I mean you can you know writers in general are are just really good at explaining stuff Even I mean it Yeah pretty much all right And you can see the difference and the way they man this one in particular really to to me anyway really really delivered with the with the descriptions and stuff and it was like yeah there’s so many oneliners in there when I’m listening when I was reading it like I have certain ways of um I have certain ways of notating kind of what I’m going to read and and that you know some of the stuff’s just circled and some of it’s this that but occasionally if something to me if I if it hits me I put one single red line underneath each individual word Yeah That I’m going to read And I normally I might do that like once or twice a book but there’s a couple paragraphs where I had done it multiple times cuz those lines are just powerful Like the the one that I just opened the book back up to reread it You can’t put it down But but you know when he’s like um and then a new sound gradually droned into our ears A sound deep and all-encompassing with no notes in it Just a gigantic faraway surge of doomlike sound And this is the part that I underlined It was the heavies and you just the power of that just knowing like these are the heavy bombers which you know it’s no big deal to us now cuz we have giant machines but a heavy bomber back then was like a it was just this ultimate modern machine that had been created that nothing could destroy what these things nothing was close to it M and not only have we created one of these insane power machines we created hundreds and hundreds and actually we created thousands of them and they were all amassed and coming to destroy this little section It was the heavies God Yeah So yeah it’s a it’s a book that definitely draws you in and his writing that he the the fact that he writes very um straightforward very very plain and direct English is I think one of the things that makes it so powerful I love how he compare where he compares like and a lot of writers do this and when you can do it good it’s really powerful where um like for example the uh he talked about the the one plane that I think he got hit or was crashing and he compared it to big he said it was a spear a light lit spear with the the smoke trail like dang you can see exactly what that looks like you know just boom and it’s weird too because although you can go watch this I mean they have film footage of this stuff but that that takes you there visually but I reading and listening does It takes you there mentally It takes you there in your head which is which is more which is more powerful than and this happens to me all the time when I’m when I’m reading and I’m getting better When we started this podcast I could tell like “Oh that’s powerful ” Like “Oh yeah that’s going to be that’s a really powerful statement ” And then sometimes I would read it and it would be 12 more times more powerful where I’d be like “Oh my god it’d be getting just power because when you read it aloud and now I’m a little bit more aware that hey you’re going to have to read this “ Yeah Yeah bro You better keep you better get your head in the game because it’s going to be powerful Yeah So that’s something I’ve become more aware of as we’ve done this more and more and as I’ve read all these books and gone through them and underlined the stuff and thought about the way it’s going to sound and thought about what it means to say it was the heavies Awesome So while I attempt to decompress over here y go Well speaking of interwebs and awesome by the way um let’s talk about supplements as we do a lot of the time at this time So on it right? Best supplements We all know that even though we already know that that is a big deal because of the nature of just supplement companies in general So rest assured on it Best one That’s it On it supplements you can get 10% off because of the Joo link which is onit com/joo 10% off Boom Supplement your wallet a little bit Supplement your your body And and your mind and your mind Alpha brain Alpha brain for sure But notably okay I’m going to admit something I didn’t take krill oil when until until recently So remember okay And in the in the spirit of extreme ownership apparently I I was not clear enough to you of um you know about the fact that I wanted it Oh from when you would send me a text like “Hey bro you got near that krill oil stuff ” I wasn’t just wondering I kind of wanted some Anyway I’ll admit I I didn’t take that Alpha rain Jaco bring me krill oil now Yeah you know I think I said that a few times So now you want it Okay So I take the krill oil and I’m not I’m not this guy who’s like has all these nagging joint pains when I go work out cuz really that’s really when I think okay do I have joint pain? No no no I work out good hard I roll jiu-jitsu I do all this stuff I don’t have joint pain But here’s the thing I do have joint pain Oh when I wake up in the morning Oh yeah And the thing is like I said when you like when I think of when someone says “Do you have joint pain?” I’m thinking when I work out that’s it I don’t think like you know other unless they’re they’re asking specifically So like my daughter she’s three and a half now She’s kind of like a bigger three and a half too And she comes runs up wakes me up a lot of times and is like “Hey carry me downstairs ” So when I sit up she jumps on my back She weighs 40 lbs Mhm I’m not saying I’m you know the power lifter or nothing but 40 lbs is not Okay 40 lbs I don’t think even has anywhere Yeah No 40 is meaningless Yeah She’s 40 pounds She jumps on my back I’m like “Oh I got to focus I got to focus on like my Yeah Just because of the stiffness Not necessarily pain but just like stiff You know how like if you just didn’t warm up at all you can’t just jump ” It’s like that feeling And then recently my my ankle got jacked up one day and I have like I think there’s torn ligament So you got to watch out for lucky Yeah You know but I it had already been jacked by the way So it got foot locked and then it like inflamed it So now I got to walk downstairs with this girl on my back with my stiffness and I’m like “Oh hey no problem I do it almost every day No problem ” But let’s face it those are all It’s a little bit of a challenge Yeah Yeah But I take the krill oil Not the first day not even the second day but it was maybe a few days later She jumps on my back I’m still working out hard by the way So it’s not like “Oh you recovered ” She jumps on my back I’m like “Dang I feel solid I can go like I when I stand up I’m like boom popping up noticeably reduced still there My ankle’s still there Even right now it’s still but bro this was like I would say maybe four or five days and this is when I know I was like dang this is this is good Krill oil is real Yeah And there’s been a bunch of bunch of people on Twitter have come back and said hey I started taking krill oil and then you know a week later they’re like man my shoulder’s good to go you know it really works So it does really work It really does Yeah And then like I said that main and here my wife’s dad was like telling her long this is years ago saying no krill oil No not fish oil Fish oil was good Krill oil is that And I’m like krill I look up krill it’s the trim Like oh sweet it’s joint pain It’s all this stuff or whatever And like I said even back then right now same thing When I work I don’t have joint pain Maybe if I have a strain or something but that’s not joint pain general you know So I’m like “All right good for you “ knock yourself out with a crew oil when I need it and then I’m gonna come Maybe I’ll ask you about some stuff So you know I see it and it’s cool Good But this is the first time I be like “All right all right I get I got you ” The krill oil Now you get that Now you get that So when I run out go ahead Give me another krill oil Okay Yeah that’s clear Yeah I mean cool Right Let me know I’ll sell you some Back to the book What else? Warrior bars And this this is what we I think warrior bars are made out of buffalo meat They are They are Yes they are We never said that Oh well my boss Does that even matter you know? Yeah because it’s because you’re eating buffalo which must have some glorious properties to make you stronger Well yeah but um nonetheless to me that makes it even more awesome Not cuz m I mean not for any specific reason other than maybe novelty but it’s still pretty dope in my opinion Um so still tastes really good Best meal replacement Someone asked me on Twitter “Hey do you you know what meal replacement or protein shakes or whatever would you recommend if any?” I said “None ” Yeah Well that’s what I said too is someone said the same thing to me You know meal replacement I said “Why would you replace a steak? You may have a steak brother ” Exactly But in the event of really the answer to that is “Hey man If meals were gross or disgusting or horrible maybe you’d want to replace them ” Yeah Or or you don’t have to You look I’m driving a truck Yeah I’m driving a I don’t know airplane or something for a long time Something No I don’t want you driving my airplane All due respect Okay probably right Good idea But but okay there you go Warrior bar That’s the answer right there Good little filler Eat two of them That’s a big filler Yep Eat They’re pretty big too They’re like they’re not messing around and they’re good That’s the thing Like remember back in the day the the you know the the bars you could get? I don’t even not even back in the day Even right now you eat one of those like “All right I see where you’re going “ Whether you’re trying to make it like a candy bar or you’re trying to It’s not like that at all This is good Mhm Anyway do worry about Barcel Um another way you can uh support the podcast in the event of you being in the mood to support the podcast is next time you shop in at amazon com click through one of our links It’s like a passive way actively aggressively efficient way to support and super easy It doesn’t cost you anything You click through you do your shopping boom it’s like we get like a little referral thing What I like about that is cuz I don’t want to ask people like a lot of people they want to donate money I don’t want you to donate money to us If you want to give us money that’s awesome but I’d rather you buy a t-shirt if you can afford it But if let’s say you can’t afford anything because you’re broke that’s okay When you order something from Amazon this is just free money that you give to us so it’s all good Yeah Yeah In a way it’s it’s almost like a collective like hey we all shop at Amazon We’re in this thing together you know kind of thing I I don’t know It’s It’s And obviously they can spare the change right? They can spare a little something for the Jo podcast You’re you’re actively making Amazon give us money How’s that for getting after it? But then but but they’re you know so it’s like this weird like circle almost you know they you know they buy from Amazon we’re like hey go to Amazon but go through us and Amazon’s like hey thanks for buying thanks for sending them we’re supporting Amazon whether it be books or whatever duct tape all this stuff because we’re making people want to buy stuff from Amazon i e books sure you know Yeah Nonetheless other things pretty soon people be buying choco white tea from from Amazon too which is coming so good you know there on brew So good It came out so good I’m pumped Yeah Yeah that’s going to be solid there That is solid Currently that’s solid Yeah But yeah the Amazon Anyway yeah support that way Um like I always say a big part of that or a big not issue but a a thing in there is remembering to do it If you want to do this the remembering to do it So we do have what’s called the trooper tool All it is you go you you download it It’s basically you click on it Amazon Trooper or Trooper Tool Chrome extension Click on it accept it It’s on your thing It automatically does it for you from here on out It’s dope It’s like a little official thing to it up Booyah So solid Um and we we’re trying to update I’ve been talking to them We’re trying to update it for Canada UK so they can have the tool for themsel as well That’s cool cuz I Yeah Yeah So we working on that one But yeah yeah that’s good Trooper tool you don’t have to remember it anymore You remember it one time That’s all Shop at Amazon Still support aggressively efficiently And of course um support by sub subscribing to the podcast on iTunes and YouTube channel Subscribe to the YouTube channel Yeah that’s legit And of course the Joo Store Oh I think we’re I’m not I think I know that we’re trying we are trying our best to provide multi-dimensional items Like even in a simple t-shirt there’s multi multiple dimensions to it You know it’s not just hey that’s a cool saying The saying is important and extends way beyond what you’d expect on the surface That goes for all the shirts So including the rash guards Including the rash guards Okay So new stuff New stuff Rash guards The rash guards are good as far as the fit of course And the man they’re good And what I what what’s cool about I mean here’s the reality When you when you when you put on a uniform you know when you put on a uniform you change your mentality a little bit Just factually Y factually And so when people are like “Oh man I I was wearing the discipline equals discipline equals freedom t-shirt today I got my PR on clean and jerk ” And I’m like “Yeah ” Yeah You you put on your uniform and there’s a mental like state of mind that makes a little adjustment in the brain You know what’s real funny about that exact notion? When I when we first got the first shirt too discipline equals freedom put on the gray one And I get I know that that thing that’s it’s a it’s a psychological thing It’s real Yeah Which is by the way one of the most powerful things in your whole life psychological Anyway so I put it on I was like “Hey I’m going to take a picture you know of me in the new shirt kind of thing ” And I put it on and I was going to work out anyway And man I put it on I was like “Yeah I felt that exactly on the shirt that I made you know ” Anyway it Yeah So true And the rash guard I’m not going to go into the story but I put on the rash guard yesterday It worked out It worked out very well I did very well So there’s some sort of a subliminal power Yeah That you can gain Yes So true And when I when I was thinking rash is this false advertising? Hey if you wear this r this rash guard your jiu-jitsu will improve 19% No it’s not false at all Not even false I want to say false Here’s the thing And I went into the whole rash guard situation like “Oh yeah we need rash guards ” Because people were saying “Hey we need like this rash guards ” And there were jiu-jitsu people demand But here’s the thing like rash guards like the short sleeve all that bro This is like if you go like biking and stuff that’s really what it’s for It’s like biking uh like CrossFit anything where you you’re like Exactly Right Surfing That’s really what rash guards are for I mean jiu-jitsu now cuz there’s jiu-jitsu now but Well we used to back in the day Back in the day we used to just wear we if people were wearing rash guards there was no such thing as a jiu-jitsu rash guard There was only actual rash guards Rash guards You know what it is for? Body boarding is what it is Cuz you get a rash on your surfing too Yeah For for all means of water sports Yeah Yeah And uh my my little brother he’s a diver He dives spear fishing like goes d He’s dope too He He got this Anyway he’s on quiet So um same thing like you go diving water swim it’s like that’s what this is for including but not limited to jiu-jitsu Yeah jiu-jitsu is a complete bonus on the tail end of that However now these are specifically designed for jiu-jitsu They’re designed for everything They’re just multi-purpose You might multi-purpose Yep And and straight up if you wear it for jiu-jitsu you’re going to do better Straight up I’m making that claim Straight up Oh I love it I love it Um nonetheless I haven’t rolled with you while you’re wearing it yet Yeah good luck Good luck with that one We will go to the gym immediately after this recording Also new that’s out is patches for jiu-jitsu for anything They’re just patches you can sew on They’re ironon but you you sew them on sew them on Sew them on Yeah Um patches discipline equals freedom There is a jiu-jitsu specific patch It says jiu-jitsu you know discipline Anyway go on jakustar com You can see them all And women’s shirts Women’s shirts are new Oh wait Back to the patches real quick So I got a recommendation for the Velcro one Yes Which is Bro I don’t even know why I didn’t like it didn’t You know why? Cuz you don’t wear a hat Oh yeah Yeah Yeah You don’t wear hats Yeah But still I I wear a hat all the time I There’s always a space for a patch on there So I’m going to put it on everything There you go Anyway what about the women’s shirts? Women’s shirts Okay Yes Thank you Debbie and um you know all you guys every one of the female troopers getting after it um yeah Lisa all Sarah Lisa yeah they’re on you like yeah thanks no they bring very good input and I and I thank them and I respect their tenacity you feel threatened honestly no I felt that we’re all in this together you know um but yeah thank you so yes they are coming here here’s the thing they’re not t-shirts they’re tank tops cool do Do you want t-shirts? I don’t know If we do then we’re going to get t-shirts as well Good Ask Ask the females Female troopers Maybe we’ll do a pink We will not Maybe we will though That’s the thing We will not We will not Either way they are in the literally in the works Submitted is that Lisa’s like pink pink pink pink Me Yeah Yeah Not happening Yes Veto I didn’t really feel like doing the pink either So guess what? I did the pink Actually I didn’t do the pink but it’s in the works still Nonetheless they’re on the way Straight up on the way You know what? This is decentralized command folks So I’m not micromanaging Echo He’s got the creative brain So let them run with it and humility because just cuz it’s not your specific opinion Doesn’t mean it’s you know but there there is a standard of Yeah So hopefully you maintain it I guess I just be you know I’ll try and give you the proper guidance All right Well there you go To make that happen Anything else? dracostore com That’s it That’s where they all are And thanks everyone for shopping and supporting It’s awesome And should we go to the questions? Oh wait wait one more thing Just a little technical thing Okay Outside of the US if you’re outside of the US Canada anywhere outside of the US um I put a little thing on there cuz just as far as just the shipping process technical thing Um for customs they want your phone number to create the shipping label I need your phone number Oh I’m not going to give the phone number out I’m not going to call no one text nobody but they just need it for the customs thing Got it So I’ve tried to put a thing on there But hey look you’re shopping You just want to check out and be done with it I understand But if if possible try to try to remember that one Otherwise you got to email them Oh it’s no problem I’ll email for for good now Yeah Hey look Especially it’s got to ship a long way Exactly Right in the Cleo in Holland Yeah Exactly Yeah it’s so there’s so many people all This is what’s really cool is getting feedback from people all over all over the world That’s crazy right? Yep That’s kind of crazy right? Is all over the world troopers getting after it Yeah it it makes sense when you think about it People come in from um Sweden Yep Oh they came in Yeah Came to the gym Didn’t roll though But we hung out We talked about physics Yeah Properties of physics for sure phys physicist listen physicist that guess what he likes to listen to the podcast we don’t talk about physics okay yeah indirectly we do but yeah if you can outside the US try to remember the um the phone number so it just it saves a step and boom it’s on it’s on its way to you quicker there it is I don’t mind emailing though in fact I get a lot of cool little convers like the Australia guys for some reason I love those guys they’ll be like Hey and they’ll say the Australian stuff I was in Australia you know a couple years ago or whatever and um met this guy Jason He’s a black belt under Hixon and he has a Anyway I was um I was with him doing some stuff and he would teach me all the Australian stuff and some I didn’t know like too easy for example Too easy is like Yeah I got this Yeah Like all good Yeah It’s it’s just this real it’s kind of ambiguous but it you know I love that phrase Anyway nonetheless you know you get into fun conversations with people when you email them for for the simple stuff for their certain order A million emails I know I know Whatever Good Good How long have we been How long have that go? Yeah roughly two hours roughly All right Well I actually got a pretty good stack of questions Mhm Um I’m thinking that for today we wrap it and hold off on Q&A until the next one and we’ll just do all Q&A on the next one I don’t to be quite frank with you It’s kind of tough to even follow up with this book So so with that thanks everybody out there for for listening for supporting the podcast Thanks for taking the time to learn with me to remember with us the depth of the world The depth of the darkness and the sacrifices that have been made for us And remember that Remember that Remember these men and what they were really truly afraid of Not afraid of physical agony not afraid of death itself but they feared losing their future They feared losing their future So we here sitting here today we have a future We have that opportunity So make sure you take every possible advantage of the opportunity that you have and that you have in the future And you know how to do that You do that by getting out there and getting after it And so until next time this is Echko and Jaco out