This is Joo podcast number 49 with Echo Charles and me Joo Willink It starts off quietly when you’re young You don’t quite know where it comes from And at first you don’t even know what it is But you know it’s something You feel it You feel it growing You’re just a child but you feel it Something something inside of you And at some point that thing it crosses over It goes from being something that you don’t fully recognize something that you don’t completely understand It goes from that to being you Those things become you It is you It is your emotions It is sadness and happiness and passion and anger and joy and it is rage And those things those emotions they [Music] burn and they burn hot They’re a fire that grows out of control They fuel your mind and your body and your soul And that marks the change becoming a person becoming an individual instead of a child You release the inferno and you burn what you touch and you ignite those near you And in that fire you burn You burn out of control And people around you the people the other humans the normal humans they do their best to extinguish that fire They tell you to relax They tell you to calm down They tell you to get a grip They tell you it isn’t healthy And that’s because they are scared They’re scared of that fire in your soul And so they tell you that you are crazy And because the anger and the rage and the sadness are so brutal and so hard to suffer through you begin to listen to those people to those normal humans And so you begin to subdue the fire You stop feeding it You start to get those emotions under control And at some point you realize this is better Better to control those emotions Better to starve those passions You begin to shut them down You are a child no more No more angry youth No Now you are an adult a responsible adult You control your emotions You don’t let them control you And the anger and the rage and the sadness they begin to wither up They become listless just memories But when the anger and the rage and the sadness fade so does the passion and the happiness and the joy And of course because it happens slowly the creeping disease you don’t notice it It isn’t a bolt of lightning or a violent explosion that kills them but a slow slithering death Then one day you wake up and you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror And as you look into your own faded lifeless eyes you see something Something you recognize Something subtle and worn but something still filled with a subdued power And you remember you remember what that felt like what anger and joy and horror and happiness felt like And you wonder what happened to them And you realize that in order to control your passions you destroyed them all of them But let me tell you they aren’t dead They cannot so easily be killed They are there and they are waiting to be released again And no you don’t have to let them get out of control but you can certainly let them out into the wild You can dance with them And of course while you need to balance them and maintain the upper hand over your emotions you can still relish in their glory But you have to let them out You have to expose the nerves feel the pain feel the frustration the sadness the shock the anger And in those adverse moments then you also get to feel the laughter the joy the gratitude the passion Because it is the passion not indifference that fuels greatness And it is [Music] conviction not tranquility that drives execution And while we must not ever let our emotions dictate our decisions we are not here to eradicate our emotions Control them Yes of course you must maintain control of your emotions Keep them in check Yes by all means emotional restraint is a necessity But destroy them no That is not what we do So let your guard down Expose your weaknesses Take some risks Open up your fragile soul And those embers those smoldering embers that you have tried to smother but that are ready to ignite again and become an inferno of energy and of power Feed those embers Light that fire again Stoke it with air and fuel and more fire and let it burn Good evening Ekko Good evening Those were just some thoughts I had uh as I was thinking about you know one of those dichotoies in life And obviously I talk a lot about maintaining control of your emotions But we can go too far with that idea And I wanted to remind myself that if we take that idea too far we’re actually going to regress backwards in a negative way My opinion I dig And last podcast went a little bit long which brings us to straight up Q&A today Yep Questions from the interwebs Yeah bring it Oh you got some comment Best way to submit questions just cuz people have been asking me Okay Twitter right? Or Twitter’s really solid Facebook Facebook is also good Yeah Instagram Don’t Yeah Instagram I I you know I’m on Instagram but it’s harder for me to compile those questions when people hit me with those They don’t stand out as much They’re in a caption of a picture 27 comments down and it just Right Yeah Not not the best way Not the best way Yeah Facebook Twitter Every once in a while people will submit them through the store Mhm And possible way Yeah It’s good but you kind of do run the risk of there being store issues that’s that are pressing and then I’m like okay let me get back to this question whether it be to forward it or whatever And so you run the risk of it maybe getting shuffled to the bottom or something Yeah I’m trying to think there might be a more efficient way to do it Yeah maybe I should just be doing one Maybe I should do for each podcast on Facebook say “Hey if you have questions for the next podcast ask them on this thread right here ” That might be a way to do it What about an email questions at that idea too? Yeah that might be a good idea Interesting All right If only I knew someone that knew how to set that up Yep All right Speaking of questions from the interweb what do you got? First question Joo What is the biggest turnaround on stance opinion you’ve ever made? Now this is one of those questions that I sat there and thought about it for a while and then I realized that the answer was sitting right in front of my face Literally sitting right in front of my face And that is this Mhm It’s the podcast the book the social media all of it Because I I’ve I’ve talked about this before I was raised in the SEAL teams to be the quiet professional And as a matter of fact one of my one of my favorite SEALs when I was a young young guy at at Team One this guy was just a just a total badass frogman and learned I learned a ton from him And he was actually you know some people say “Oh that guy’s good at everything “ This guy was actually awesome at everything Like everything that there was to do at shooting at fighting at climbing at tactics everything that he did he was awesome at And he was super super hardcore just tough And in fact one of the stories about him is that when he joined the Navy and he had to come to boot camp I guess in San Diego he paddled a kayak from where he lived to get to San Diego And he was 17 years old by the way He was just a 17-year-old kid Joined the Navy when he was 17 and then had no way of getting here So he’ll take a kayak put it in the water and paddle to San Diego I don’t know That seems to be the the smart way to do things Sure And so back in the day he had a hat and he had this hat and this is before you’d see SEAL memorabilia everywhere You just see it Yeah All over the place He had this hat with just a trident on it Nothing else Just a trident And then under the trident it just said the words the silent option And I always thought to myself yes that is it right there That’s us right? The silent option No fanfare no news no parade no fame or fortune or glory of any kind No none of that The silent option That’s it And pretty much everybody that I looked up to in the SEAL teams had that kind of attitude And there’s something that is obviously so pure about that that attitude so selfless that none of what you did as a seal was ever for any kind of recognition ever And that to me was sort of the code Now there were people that stepped out from that code And while it certainly wasn’t encouraged it wasn’t really ridiculed either either I mean people people did it People wrote books and it was it wasn’t looked that down upon at the time unless you were a bad team guy If you were a bad Seal or if you were a guy that had a bad reputation you would be crushed in the SEAL teams amongst the team guys in the community Now civilians they don’t know the difference right? I mean to civilians how can they tell? They just a seal is a seal is a seal So they’re good with it But in the teams if you had a bad reputation your reputation would get even worse if you if you broke the code So when I retired I had zero intention of of going public right of becoming this And then when I started working with civilian companies and Leif and I formed a company Echelon Front and we we realized pretty quickly that there’s a big need for people to learn what we had to teach And really quickly the demand for us to write this down and be able to give it to people grew and was really obvious to us So when that started when we when that started and we started wrote it down and then that started to transform this idea of what we had written down started transforming into becoming a book like a legitimate book I I got really nervous and scared and kind of almost sick right? I was definitely definitely very weary about it and I think I did some little self- sabotage along the way Just a little bit here or there you know I just well I don’t know you know this is probably not going to you know we I think I did some of that stuff I’d have to I’d have to think about it In fact I know I did some of it Um because it’s kind of an all orno proposition right? You’re either do it or you don’t do it And I guess you could try and use like a pseudonym but then that doesn’t really that’s not me right? I’m not going to even I’m not going to make up a personality right? And not be me right? So that wasn’t really an option And and furthermore I knew that that doesn’t really last either I mean the pseudonyms eventually people figure out who they are And so that’s the way it works Um and and I think the thing that finally made me say “Okay I’m going to do this ” is that I I’m as I decided like okay I’m going to do this I just kind of knew I wasn’t going to be anything else other than what I was right? I’m not going to try and put on some persona or be something that I’m not I’m just going to be me And I’ve got you know that that’s what I’m going to do And so that’s what I did You know the the the the me that is here is just me There’s no nothing special That’s just who I am and that’s all I did was basically expose what I am to you know people in the public Now the thing is now that I actually am out there a little bit and people can kind of see me in the world right? There’s definitely some things that I I don’t like about it Or I shouldn’t say I don’t like There’s some challenges right? There’s some challenges there For instance you’re being watched all the time You’re being followed and being you’re being judged And those things right there are coincidentally the exact same kind of challenges you face when you’re in a leadership position that I faced when I was in leadership position Oh people are watching me Oh people are judging me I’m used to that That’s what it was like when I was in the SEAL teams And just like when I was in the SEAL teams I always tried to stay true to what I believed in and what I believed was right And not to say I never made mistakes I obviously did But I always gave it my all to do the best job I could do and to take care of my guys my brothers and my friends That’s what I always tried to do And really that’s all I’m still trying to do is just to give something back to pass on some of the things some of the little things that I learned along the way and really when I get the feedback from from my SEAL teammates from guys that are still active duty in the SEAL teams from soldiers and Marines that are retired or guys that are still on active duty or guys that transition to the civilian world All those guys guys from the front lines that are on the front lines right now and then guys that are law enforcement and firefighters and when all those that whole crew that whole group of people send me some kind of thanks it’s awesome And in addition to them and I don’t know if this is surprising or not but I hear from just everyday normal people too civilians right? Businessmen laborers entrepreneurs builders mechanics plumbers electricians software engineers doctors men and women girls and boys young and old just every imaginable size shape color of person from every walk of life and I hear from them And when I hear from them and I see that they’re getting something out of this that makes those little challenges of judgment and and scrutiny it makes all those worthwhile to me because once again I feel like I’m part of something that’s bigger than me bigger than myself something more powerful than I could ever be by myself Something stronger than I could ever be alone And for me to be doing what I can do to to help that and to have that to have trying to help be both the task and the reward It’s a reward to help people that to me has made it worthwhile Yeah I could see that Well okay The silent professional Mhm The quiet professional Yeah And the silent option Yeah Two different uh variations Variations on the same theme Is that because if that wasn’t there you’d I would imagine you’d get a bunch of hey look at me I was such a I was such a badass and all these stories and you know because I think that like what what you and Leif have and and even this podcast and stuff sure there’s like references to war but it’s not about like oo let me spin all the cool tales that the war that I went through and stuff like that it’s it’s more about like the actual principles of leadership and what what can be effective you know even though I know the general public would probably want to hear every last cool story on how you saved this person or you know killed all these bad or whatever you know everyone would want to hear that I would want to hear that but that’s not what it’s about that’s not like what you’re going public with you know it’s more about like okay this valuable stuff that is that is tried tested in basically the harshest of conditions you know that work everywhere and like that’s the valuable part I don’t even know if that’s even like seeking glory in any way Well again I’ve said this before You can say that you’re not trying to seek glory but then when you write a 300page book about yourself you know what I mean? And then you have a podcast about yourself it’s like it just is what it is Like there’s no that that has a level of of selfcenteredness that you can’t I mean you can’t avoid I can’t deny right? I can’t deny like actually no the podcast is it’s it’s a podcast and I talk on it for two hours right that’s that’s me talking right so there is a there is a level of that that you can’t escape from and I don’t I talked about this before but that book the electric Kool-Aid acid test which I don’t maybe I’ll do but it’s um it’s about the hippies and the drug revolution well this one part of it where this guy is listening he’s up in Hay Ashberry in San Francisco and he he goes on this tangent about how what they’re saying is me me look at me And when I read that for the first time I was like “Oh I never want to be that person that’s saying that ” And that’s that But again the dichotomy here is I have a podcast I have a book And and that book is me and the podcast me And so it’s unavoidable to have a podcast that you talk on and not have it somehow be about you it just doesn’t happen Yeah So that’s a real challenge and I do my best to mitigate that right? But you can’t stop it It is factually a podcast that I’m in It is factually a book that I wrote right? Energy you know it’s a book that factually leif wrote So that’s just what it is And so you can’t take those away The only thing that mitigates that feeling from me is again what I just said is when you got when I got soldiers marine when I got SEAL teammates of mine that are are fired up and they’re they’re they’re saying “Hey that was awesome Thanks for that one This this was great I I never knew that ” Or whatever they’re going to say right? And then on top of that you know you get civilians that are saying “Hey I stopped using drugs because of your podcast ” That is awesome Yeah I don’t like drugs And so when somebody tells me that they stopped using drugs because of the podcast that that makes me feel very gratified when somebody calls me up I just had a or somebody uh on Twitter just said a guy’s like 53 years old and he said “Hey I’ve lost x amount of pounds 40ome pounds ” And he said “I just did the first legit pull-up of my life ” 53 years old 53 years old Just did the first legitimate pull-up of his life He’s like “Thank you ” That is worth the the the daggers that stick me in my brain because I know I sold out Yeah Right I sold out But that’s what it is Is is that is it just in your I mean do you get like scrutiny from people at all for quote unquote selling out or is it do you think my my my bros and the teams are fire? They’re they’re That’s what I would think And it is because the whole dynamic I mean yeah I mean you got to be like Joo podcast it’s called Joo podcast it’s about me you kind of have to do that you have I mean there’s there’s a small element of that that you have to include about yourself for credibility reasons all this stuff but then aside from that it’s it’s valuable stuff it’s not glory seeeking stuff at all this is like stuff that’s helpful it’ll help like if you the stuff that you can benefit from from this podcast from the book if your neighbor neighbor If the people in your neighborhood all incorporated these principles into their life it’d be a better neighborhood So it’s not like you know I’m just this yeah look at me I’m a war hero You know it’s not that No No So it makes it worth it I mean I I mean I dig it though that like tradition If let’s just say if there was like a person who’s like hey you know like hey I dig what you’re doing but you shouldn’t do that That’s the code That’s the tradition That’s the you the code you sold out I would understand that but I think that’s just like you’re not looking at the big picture Yeah Yeah No it definitely was when I hear back from when I hear like I said when I hear from active duty military when I hear from my SEAL bros that are that are telling me this is awesome That that’s that makes it worthwhile to me And uh that’s sort of why I keep doing it that And again these civilian folks that are out there that are that are just changing their lives And and again I whenever they say “Oh thank you ” I say “I didn’t do anything You did it ” That guy that did his first pull-up his first legit pull-up in 53 years of life you know what? That’s awesome I didn’t do that pull-up He did it He had to put all the work in All he did was change his attitude and get in the game And now he’s you know having a much better situation in his life Cuz your life is better If you go from zero pull-ups to one your life just got better Your life just got a lot better as a matter of fact Yeah So yeah But but it was interesting as I sat here and talked about the qu I thought about the question the biggest turnaround I’ve been really pretty steady in my beliefs for a long time I mean about this you mean? No just in general Just like in general if you if you were to interview me now and you interviewed me 10 years ago they’d be close I was probably a little bit dumber 10 years ago I was dumb dumber 6 months ago but my broad beliefs would be somewhat similar right? Yeah And so I was thinking okay what’s the biggest turnaround? And then I realized oh yeah obviously this is a huge turnaround for me And and there were guys that you know when guys in the SEAL teams found out that I had a boat coming out There was definitely some guys that were like dude what are you doing? And I was you know and then they’d read it and say hey man credit it’s cool All good you know and uh that’s the way it is Let’s say you were to not rewind life but you’re take the jo from before before Ramani How about that? Jo from and then the idea was introduced hey like what do you like what did you feel about that like if someone went and wrote a book and did you know did a podcast or something like what was your take? There was no podcast back then but generally generally negative Yeah that’s that’s why it’s a big turnaround right? Because if you told me that years ago I’d be like “Oh you know we’re quiet professionals We don’t do that kind of thing ” So here I am Mr Quiet Professional Yeah Not so quiet Not so quiet Still a professional though Trying to keep it professional Definitely trying to keep it professional Yeah It’s good Yeah The Is there a You know how like some you know people who who change their attitude on things all the time sometimes get frowned upon? This is just in general for for being like a flip-flopper or something You see it in like politics and stuff but isn’t that kind of good if your if your ideas about things always are updated? Yeah it’s okay with me I don’t mind I don’t mind if people uh change their opinion over time as they as they bring on new knowledge but there’s a point where that becomes ridiculous right? Yeah Well yeah it kind of depends on why they’re changing their mind That’s true too So if it’s like with the introduction of new facts and stuff like that then they’re like okay I didn’t know all that now you know it paints a broader you know more accurate picture So now I feel this way or starting to feel this way about but there’s a there’s a bias you know talk about cognitive bias called it’s called uh I think it’s called backfire effect and it’s the opposite So like new factual information will come in and the tendency is to be like is to dig deeper into your current belief Oh for sure In fact I can I can talk about that I I’ve seen that happen before And what I’ve seen that happen is people when they the way that they first learn to do something in the SEAL teams Yeah is the way they believe is correct And you have to beat it out of them Like old as we learn new tactics whenever wherever some guy went to their first training at a SEAL team wherever they went and whoever taught them that’s sort of what they believe And anyone else that comes in with a new idea will be “Oh no man You don’t know what is No that’s not the best way And so and I I figured that out real quick when I was in training when I was when I was running training And I realized oh oh I got to get over this barrier of you know this guy learned it at this team or wherever and or he learned it from this guy and so he’s got to have that in his head that that’s the only way to do things Cool Just got to just got to I wouldn’t aggressively attack it of course I’d say “Oh yeah that’s a great tactic what they do ” Yeah that this and you know what? What we’re about to show you actually mixes in with that tactic Good might want to you know it’s something you could use along with your tactic And then they’d realize that the tactic we’re teaching is superior because we’ve evolved right? I had to evolve We learned tactics new tactics all the time The fundamental principles didn’t change but the execution at a tactical level would change because we got better updated Yeah Yeah Well it’s it’s called war You know we went to war And as soon as we went to war we started figuring out some of the stuff that we had been taught didn’t really function the way we it’s it was literally like pre UFC martial arts Yeah Yeah That’s what I was saying right? You know pre UFC martial arts if you learn that you know if I touch your neck in this particular manner you’re going to fall down and nothing is going to save you from that And and if you get taught that you might believe it Yeah And and then somebody punches you in the face I know or does a double leg takedown on you and slams you into the ground Yeah When you try to hit their neck or something Yeah When you try and karate chop their neck So it was the same thing in the SEAL teams We had tactics that had evolved during a peacetime environment in a in a bubble And so when the war started we said “Ooh okay We need to we need to do an immediate check on all these things “ Yeah My friend was in from out of town this past weekend We watched the fights and the the guys were in this specific position you know standing kind of from the back there and he and he asked um he’s like “Hey couldn’t he just like throw knees and give him like the meanest Charlie horse right there?” And then we were like you not we don’t say it’s not condescending or anything but if you don’t know you don’t know Yeah It’s like So we said “No I mean yeah you could throw but that wouldn’t do anything ” I mean I don’t think you even feel that you know fight UFC fight How I put it was I said Charlie horses are for when you’re cruising and you see your friend you’re like I’m going to give my friend a Charlie horse And you do it and it like hurts them He’s like oh you know but no when you’re in fighting like yeah you don’t really feel a Charlie horse you Now uh that being said if somebody if you’re in a position and somebody starts dropping 12 to six elbows onto your thigh and they’re big enough and they’re big and you’re kind of stuck there you’ll feel those and you you’ll see a guy even in the UFC you’ll see a guy make adjustments and move cuz he doesn’t want to get take you know 12 of those shots that’s not going to be fun Yeah My example was a leg kick So a leg kick is essentially can be like a Charlie horse You know how like you know how like you give your friend a Charlie horse really gnarly Exactly Right And and that’s the point The point is like what you would think is a common Charlie charlie horse like with your friend or at school or whatever like like a elbow or you punch it or even you need it or whatever um is different than like the kind of Charlie horse that will be effective in Yeah And but in a fight in an MMA it takes even 99% of the time with leg kicks it it does take multiple it takes rounds worth of leg kicks before you can actually affect the guy It might slow the guy down a little bit He’s a little less apt to to be have weight on that front leg or whatever But then you know you see there’s been fights that have ended because third or fourth round the guy’s been kicked in the leg 47 times and it’s it’s just he’s he breaks Yeah Yeah It’s just Yeah Again just one of those things like if if you don’t know you don’t know You think that’s how it is and then get updated information Yeah There’s much in the world that looks like that that you if you don’t know it it seems like it’d be easy Yeah And it’s not easy And jiu-jitsu is a classic or MMA is a classic example of that But there’s so many things I mean even a normal sport you know baseball Hey how hard can it be to hit that ball? All sports actually Yeah All sports Uh rock climbing you know you look and say “Oh that why don’t you just grab that thing right there?” No just hold on Yeah just hold on No doesn’t work that way Yeah Football like you know when they drop the ball it’s like “Oh my gosh you couldn’t even catch that ball right in his hands ” Okay so Trey you you’re a football now Of course they’re trained in the sand But you you know that’s kind of part of the point You know them being trained made it look like it’s so easy You’ve seen it done all that all those times And what’s interesting is when this transfers over into the interpersonal and the leadership realm and it’s the same exact thing where if you don’t know you don’t know And you see people that are you know younger leaders or they’re not very experienced and they’ll be making the same kind of rookie mistakes or have the same kind of of of opinion of why don’t we just tell them to do this? Oh it’s very easy why you tell them can’t tell them just tell them to do that you just tell them to do that they’re just not going to listen to you because they don’t have respect for you because you don’t have a relationship with you and you haven’t built anything up yet So you can end up with the same thing in that aspect of life as you do in a war fighting aspect of life as you do in a sports aspect of life It’s all the same Yeah You got to learn the skills You got to practice the skills Yeah it’s true Even like shooting a gun Yeah Oh super easy right? Yeah Yeah Let’s see somebody knock out You know it’s it’s it it’s a skill I mean it’s easier It’s obviously easier to kill someone with a gun than it is with a knife or with your bare hands It’s an easier method But yeah you see you know you see this all the time You see little gunfights where people fire shoot 20 25 rounds at another guy and they don’t hit him Yeah And they’re only 10 feet away you know So shooting is easier but it it still is a skill that you need to practice I know man And that’s not to mention just all the like input they like just firing it you know you know like on movies the guy will be like one hand you know whatever boom boom boom boom a re a more accurate representation of how it would go is like you know the kind movies where the girl that they they totally demean women a lot of times when they the girl grabs the gun and she’s like ah and she shoots it and then like it flies out of her hand Oh yeah That’s probably pretty accurate if you never shot a gun Well yeah if someone’s never shot a gun before the first time I ever took my wife to a range to to teach her shooting And she was kind of that way you know kind of scared and intimidated and she was kind of almost shaking a little bit And a half an hour later I had her doing quick draws from the holster gunning down targets I said “Yeah you’re over it now aren’t you?” She says “Shut up and reload my magazine ” I’m like “Okay cool We got this ” You know you ever seen those videos online? I mean I don’t know how much time you spend watching videos online but they’re more just for entertainment But of people like shooting like big guns and it like Oh and it hits them in the face and stuff Those are good I If I’m going to spend time watching videos I’m watching actually guys that are good that have some knowledge to put out on shooting Right Right Stuff you can learn So check Although you can learn from watching somebody get hit with a shotgun when they shoot it wrong All right Awesome Next question I had a few question relating to my family life for guys who join the seals My boyfriend is interested in taking the path So this is coming from the girl Oh okay Interesting Jock you have mentioned being married while a SEAL Was it hard on you on you and your wife and family? Advice for a newlywed SOF candidate? That stands for soft special operations forces There you go So this is actually this was two questions and basically from the other side and by the way everyone that’s asked can I bring my wife on here my wife has given the the stern negative She’s not coming You know why? Cuz she’s a legit quiet professional She’s just a legit quiet professional She doesn’t want any of this glory Glory No She did it just because she loves the job So my wife has said no And I’ve and someone said you know I said uh went back and forth with somebody on social media and they said “Hey flank her ” Hey Ben she’s she she knows this game bro She’s not going to get flanked It’s super easy I’m But what I’m doing is kind of playing a long-term game I’m planting some seeds and whatnot trying to get her maybe to think about how she could help some other folks out there So you know we’re trying to work through there is some flanking activity going on We’re going to see where it goes Uh but to this question being married to a guy that’s in special operations or in the SEAL teams or whatever it is a hard life in many ways And you know the SEAL teams we had a 90% divorce rate by the way A 90 and I think it’s come down a little bit I’m not 100% sure I don’t know what the current numbers are to date but man when I was a young kid everybody was divorced You know guys were just getting married and divorced all the time So here’s the here’s the couple things that I would tell you that I think made made my marriage last right? Aside from my wife being awesome of course right? Full credit But here’s a couple things Number one um you have to respect the fact that the job is the number one priority And that is completely different from what a lot of people think And I don’t mean to be offensive by that by saying that but the job has to be number one And for me and I’ve said this before on interviews the job was the most important thing to me And my wife didn’t take offense to that She didn’t when I said “Hey I’m going to work but it’s Saturday Doesn’t matter ” You know “Oh I’m going I’m going to not going to be coming home tonight Why? I’m going to work And then I’m going out with my friends cuz we’re going to go and hang out cuz that’s what we do ” Yeah And she never would get offended by that Instead she realized okay yeah his job is the most important thing He’s got to take care of himself He’s got to take care of his guys He’s got to take care of his job He’s got to take care of the country So I am number two That’s cool You know what I need to do is help support him And so that is that is what was happening And and so what that means is your wife in this case you young lady that’s asking this question you need to be an independent person right? you you need to be self-sufficient and and that’s not just self-sufficient with you know being able to clear the toilet when it gets clogged up and you know call the plumber when the water heater breaks and handle all that administrative stuff and all the tasks around the house and provide you know take care of the finances cuz your your your husband’s going to be gone He’s going to be gone He’s going to be on a workup is going to be it’s going to be gone a lot And so you got to be able to handle all that stuff And on top of that you have to be self-sufficient emotionally emotionally self-sufficient where you don’t need to have this constant uh you know constant flow of affection coming from this guy who has a bunch of other things to worry about Yeah Right So that’s hard to do and it’s I think that’s one of the problems I mean that’s why there’s probably a high divorce rate because it’s hard to find a a girl or a woman that can do those things Yeah Right So it’s that that will make that’s part of the solution here Now the husband obviously big things you got to do is leave your job at work right? And don’t don’t bring it home with you And I’ve talked about this before you know in the SEAL teams you don’t have to when you get done with work you change you put on your civilian clothes you go home so you’re not bringing that with you That’s sort of a psychological moment to change and and get those out But there’s also the attitude that you can carry over very easily because the SEAL teams and and special operations and the military in general but definitely the SEAL teams is a hostile environment with your friends Your friends are not supportive caring nurturing friends No your friends are just just savages right? Everything they’re looking for weakness It’s just I mean it’s all fun Mhm But it’s all just a constant it’s a constant just battle verbal battle verbal abuse all day long It’s fun Like we’re having fun with it That’s the sick sense of humor you know when Tim Kennedy was on here and they made that movie Rage Range 15 and all all that that like kind of sick twisted sense of humor is what you’re living in And there’s a real problem that occurs when you take that little sick sense of humor and that abusive personality that you develop at work and you bring it home Yeah And that happened to me when I went to college and all of a sudden I wasn’t around any team guys anymore All day long no more team guys And then here I am and what do I do now? I come home from going to school all day which was annoying And then the first person I talked to cuz I didn’t talk to anyone when I went to school unless I was asking them a specific question about some knowledge or some thing that was happening in a class Other than that I didn’t make any friends So I’d come home and I want to socialize What was the only way I knew how to socialize with people? Cutting them down abusing them And that’s a little bit strong but you know definitely making comments and and trying to have a good time through through cutting people down And so you know and I’ve talked about this before I I think somebody’s kind of grabbed on to this but you know for instance you know before I was going to college when I was just in the teams my wife would make dinner whatever it is she makes it Hey cool Thank you Appreciate it When I was going to school all of a sudden I’m not around team guys anymore I want to have some fun when I come home And you know she’d cook me something and I would have some comments about it right? And and eventually and it was very clear when she said this to me she she didn’t think a big deal She just goes “Hey I’m not a team guy you know?” Right? You know I think I said something about this dried chicken that she made My wife has always had some issues getting moist chicken made right? It always I don’t know She’s paranoid about food poisoning but when she cooks it man she cooks it big time I mean she goes the distance right? She will cook that thing until you know you’re you got to bring a gallon of water to the table just to get through the meal So she’s actually gotten a lot better in the recent years So anyways back in the day I’d say she’d say “Oh you know I made you some chicken ” And I’d say “Oh can can you just go ahead and bring me three gallons of water to the table?” And then it was one of those comments that I made one time where she says “You know I’m not a team guy ” Mhm And I kind of laughed and I said “Oh my gosh look what I’m doing I’m treating her like a team guy and she’s not a team guy and she doesn’t need to be treated like that ” So I just put myself in check and got myself under control and treated my wife like the good person that she is So there’s that There’s communication It’s and this is this is a weird thing because everyone’s going to say communication but my point here is don’t expect communication right? Don’t expect communication One of my buddies was married and we were going on deployment This is a long time ago He was married He had three three kids been married to you know married his high school sweetheart blah blah blah And he lived in Coronado where where the SEAL teams are He lived there and his wife he lived there with his wife And one day he dropped off his car He had to get his car worked on or something like that And he said this is we’d been at the SEAL teams for 5 years He’s married the whole time Been at SEAL team one And one time he says to his wife “Hey you know ” he calls her and says “Hey can you come pick me up cuz we got to go somewhere blah blah blah ” And she goes “Yeah ” She says “Where are you?” He goes “I’m I’m at the team ” And she goes “Where is it?” And Coronado by the way is only like a mile long And and so it was a classic example of he never told his wife even where the buildings were or what he did or anything like that And that’s just the way it was And a lot of successful seal marriages that I’ve seen there’s not a lot of hey this is what I did at work today and hey this guy’s a jerk and hey we’re trying to make this happen and hey I got in trouble for this There’s none of that There’s just like work and then there’s what we have right? And I think that you got to separate those two But what I’m saying is this idea of communication happening all the time it’s not going to happen all the time It’s not And I don’t even know if it’s I don’t think it’s beneficial When I was overseas I wouldn’t call my You could You could call your wife you know basically every day if you wanted to I didn’t call my wife every single day I don’t want to call my wife every day It makes time slow down It doesn’t speed it up Just don’t call Call like once a week That’s what I did Call my wife once a week Hey how you doing? I’m fine How’s everything at home? I would just ask her questions about home didn’t didn’t tell her anything that was going on ever and just said “Oh yeah How’s this? Oh yeah Did you get the you know how’s the car and did you get the water heater fixed and how’s the kids doing in school and blah blah blah ” Ask her questions cuz otherwise you’re going to start talking about your world and then that’s going to make them worried and concerned and everything else and you don’t want that So you don’t need to talk to somebody every single day That you do that’s neediness That’s emotional That’s what I was talking about earlier with with being emotionally independent right? You got to be independent You can’t need that like security of “Hey call me and talk to me ” No actually I’m not going to call you I’m not going to talk to you You go do your thing I’m doing my thing Um you know on top of that I think it’s cool if you want to set some goals you know together make a little team You know you’re trying to make some things happen You’re trying to make some financial goals or some family goals or some house goals you know we want to get new carpet want to put some new wallpaper up we whatever you know want to add a you know just do stuff and and make those goals Maybe we make some jiu-jitsu goals together That’s always good My wife was really good at jiu-jitsu She’s kind of stopped training when she started having babies every 18 months and all that What? But you know we we used to have a blast training jiu-jitsu all the time So I obviously recommend the jiu-jitsu to help all relationships Yeah Uh working out together is another good one You know even if you can’t get the jiu-jitsu together you can you can you can just work out you know work out together and that’s cool And then you got to give each other some space right? Got to give each other some space The guy the guy he’s a team guy He’s a special operations guy He’s going to hang with his friends sometimes and that’s the way it goes There’s nothing wrong with that That that’s the way things work And you know what? She’s going to go do the same thing So that’s okay Um yeah So I think those are the main things You know JP when JP was on here he he made a good point of put put each other first right? Pretty simple point That goes a long way Yep That goes a long way Yeah Which is contrary to what I said which is like the team is going to come first But that’s your job Yeah And I think you can still put your team as the number one priority and doing your job as your number one priority because that’s that’s the thing I said this a million times right? Yeah Hey listen darling The reason I have to do my job well is because this is what we do We fight and guys are going to be trying to kill us So the best thing I can do for our relationship is stay alive Yeah So that means and and not only that but I got these guys that also need to stay alive for their wives So we’re going to work hard We’re going to train hard We’re going to play hard We’re going to know each other better We’re going to we’re going to bond And all those things are going to happen and that’s how I can best support this family is by kicking ass at my job And if you’re a smart wife you’ll go “That makes sense to me ” Yeah And it’ll be okay So in putting your job as a number one priority you’re actually supporting the family and you’re you’re putting your your spouse first because you’re trying to take care of yourself take care of your team so that you can come home when when it’s time to come home Yeah Yeah JP made it I mean the the put each other first that’s kind of like a like dated it’s like you got to remember that you know because you know how like you’re you’re on two different pages you know Oh yeah you got to put you got to you got to remind yourself daily Yeah but man it helps helps a lot Have you have you been doing that lately implement I like how I like how JP put it you know we just put each other first It’s real like dang that kind of resonated I don’t like using that word but it resonated You know where? Why don’t you like using that word? I don’t know You know those words you know certain words just sound dumb coming out of your mouth Is that one of them? In my opinion Yes It comes sounds out of anyone’s mouth No out of my I think it sounded pretty good actually Oh thanks Paul All right But yeah that was a good one Good luck Uh by the way good luck uh to these guys that are trying to get in the special operations community It obviously I loved it and it was awesome for me and I’ll tell you my wife there was definitely hard man It was a hard it’s a hard path and when your husband’s over on deployment and you’re home and guys are coming home wounded or guys are getting killed overseas that that’s that’s going to be that’s hard and that’s one of the things and I talk about the strength of the spouses and the independence to be able to deal with those hardships when they come That’s real stuff And so to the to the women out there that support these guys God bless you Yeah that that point you made where you I think it’s probably just habitually a little bit when you treat your wife like a team guy you know like how cuz that’s how you’re used to like bonding with people you like you know? So in a way it’s like it’s good you know? I treat you like Yeah man It’s not a it’s not a one-way street man You can’t you can’t be doing that I do I had the same thing cuz that’s how me and my brother we just that’s it The whole thing is like see who can make make the funniest joke about the other guy you know and then so Sarah was like our friend before we got together So she kind of and she would she didn’t like that even from the beginning But once you’re kind of like in the relationship she kind of got louder and she’d constantly constantly like like I’m not your you know and of course I’m not your brother Yeah I’m not your brother I’m not your friend Like that kind you know But but of course if you’re not looking at it as like a two-way street you’re like “Wait wait you should be happy I’m treating you like this ” You know this is my way of showing affection Exactly Right You should be happy right? No no no That’s a different person you’re talking about You know anyway next question BJJ question one BJJ Q1 Oh no It does mean question one Yes There you go What’s the best ratio of drilling to sparring? And question two is what do you do if you roll with someone new to jiu-jitsu and they’re overaggressive like the beast took over and they want to hurt people? I don’t think they really do but the adrenaline rush takes uh experience to manage Um what’s a good what’s a good approach on you know on the mat to let them know that they’re being reckless and wasting energy without sounding like a douche? All right So question one the ratio of drilling to sparring Uh I’m probably not the best person to ask this question because I like to roll Nobody’s the best person to ask that question Maybe but I like to roll and I should probably drill more but I like to roll Rolling is the funnest thing I We were training yesterday and we got done training yesterday and we were sitting there We were watching some other people train and stuff and I was like “Man I just love jiu-jitsu It’s so fun Will we do an hour of rounds?” And so I just got done and I said “Man jiu-jitsu is so fun It’s so fun ” And uh so I like to roll and drilling is not as fun Right? When I said “Yeah we did rounds That means we were just rolling ” For those of you that don’t train well first of all go train Go find a place to train And by the way all these people that ask me questions about if they should train or yacht yes you should train You got a million different reasons why you shouldn’t train Like what was the one you just responded to? Somebody on social media said you know hey what if the only option I have is a place where there’s just white belts All white belts Even the instructor even the instructor’s a white belt Is it worth it? Yes it’s worth it Go on YouTube You can learn a billion different moves on YouTube And go start rolling with these other white belts and you guys are going to get better And you know it doesn’t matter what the belts are So you know whether you’re that person or whether you’re the person that says “Hey I can only make it once a week because I travel ” Go once a week Then there you go If you’re the person that says “Hey man I got you know this knee injury and uh I can only uh roll like one day before it gets too sore Okay roll one day And you know what? If you can’t doesn’t mean you have to Every time you get on the mat you don’t have to go psycho Yeah Right Which is what we I guess we’ll get to that question but if you can’t roll super hard then just roll a little lighter and roll what you can And we get guys some of our really dedicated jiu-jitsu guys they’ll get hurt they still come and train They can’t even roll but they’ll come and Hey man just let me just work my whatever I can do Let me work my arm lock You know I that’s the one motion I can do So I’m going to work that And that’s cool Um so I think you should drill more I think I should drill more but I just like to roll so much And I’ll tell you I think this does change a little as you get better because I mean obviously a black belt doesn’t need to drill as much as a white belt does because a white belt has a lot more moves to learn But everybody should drill more And I think if I was to say something like probably a third of the time you should be drilling maybe I’ll tell you something else You learn a new move drill it until you’re good at it Then you won’t need to drill it anymore And the other thing about drilling is and drilling is awesome drilling also I could drill a move 15 000 times drill only and when I go to roll with somebody I won’t be able to do it It doesn’t mean you’ll be able to do it In fact I still got to do it a hundred more times live against another real active human before I can pull the move off That’s the way it works Occasionally there’s a few moves that either they are that simple or you have a natural ability to do them That does happen sometimes where like occasionally I’ll get I there’s some moves that just make sense to me right? And I’ve always as soon as I learn them I can do them That’s rare I mean it’s it’s that happens 10% of the time Most of the time I learn something and I try it and I get stuffed and then I got to try it again and I got to make my little adjustments to it and then I got to do it again Then that’s the way jiu-jitsu works Mhm So drill a bunch All right Question two Someone that is going level seven psychopath on the mats Is seven the highest level 10 right? I guess But seven is still pretty We’re not 100% sure what the highest level is I don’t think it’s been seen yet It’s not This not level one That’s Yeah it’s definitely not level one This guy is above normal psycho level I’ll say this well above normal cycle level So first of all if you’re a higher belt you just shut them down right? You just shut them down smother them I I like if I get someone that’s going really super crazy I I will I will immobilize them to where they cannot move and I will let the rage drain out of them I’ll just let it drain out of them and I’ll you know just let the rage drain out and then I’ll submit them And then I’ll submit them again And I’ll just do that over and over again And then I’ll probably just you know have a little chat with him like “Hey man you just relax a little bit because all that all that going crazy is not helping you get better at what we’re trying to do here “ Mhm Now when you tell somebody relax you tell them don’t use strength Of course those are the things that no one can actually apply right? Very seldom can someone say you I say “Hey man just relax ” And they go “Okay cool ” And you have a nice roll No it doesn’t happen They go even harder Yeah So that’s what you’re going to do You eventually just keep wearing them down and say “Hey man You know I’m telling you you got to relax You’re not going to see you’re not going to see as much if you’re so going psycho ” Mhm Now so that’s if you’re a higher belt That’s what I do Control them Put them you know force them to accept their fate And that will help them move down the path towards relaxation Now if you’re a lower belt you can either fight to the death which is fine and kind of join in their mayhem and if you want to do that that’s okay Or you can work your technique right and get dominated So so guy comes in and you know you two are about the same level but he’s a lot stronger than you and he’s going crazy and and you just go “Okay you know what? I’m just going to work my technique the best I can and I’m not going to escalate this ” And you know what? You’re going to get tapped out because you guys are at the same level but he’s using all the strength and you’re not Now you’re going to get better at jiu-jitsu but you’re not going to notice that for a while Yeah Yeah that’s true So what happens? You get caught up in their ego trip and you start going just as hard as they’re going And that’s the way it works Now if you can just say you know what I’m just going to keep relaxing with this guy and eventually I’m going to learn more than him and that will happen You will learn more than the person that’s going psycho and then you can put them to tap Uh so you know also I was I was u uh Tim Ferrris sent some email out the other day and it had a quote on there from Leo Toltoy and it said “Everyone thinks of changing the world but no one thinks of changing himself ” Right? And and I was like that’s interesting And I immediately thought of jiu-jitsu because I try and explain this concept to people in jiu-jitsu And that is when you’re going especially against someone that’s bigger than you or stronger than you or someone that’s going crazy and they’re using all of their muscles the way this translates in jiu-jitsu is in jiu-jitsu everyone thinks of moving the other person But what you need to focus on is moving yourself Yeah And there’s some really clear examples of this And but this is just translates into life It translates into life You know it’s this is what flanking is right? If I come up against you and you got a big ego and you’re not budging on anything I’m not going to continue attack that way I’m not going to try and move you I’m going to move myself into a better position So I thought that was a good thing to think about when you’re rolling with somebody that’s big and going crazy Yeah that’s a good point That’s a good thing to think about all day every day about everything Especially you know people who are agree who are like “Hey oh man I need a job ” And that’s you know that’s nothing this is nothing new where it’s dang I need a job you know dang there’s no jobs out here or whatever and that’s kind of an example of that you know where don’t look at it like a job needs to be presented to you you know you have to kind of you need to maneuver Yeah Yeah Change yourself so you know you can do the work that people need you know Concur Don’t move the world Move yourself Don’t try and move your opponent move yourself Yeah the guy um who were drilling and sparring You were kind of trying to move me a lot yesterday FYI Oh I moved you a lot You were trying to move me a lot Whatever You were coming with a really aggressive really aggressive methodology I’ll say Yeah Default The default aggressive the the drilling Um in my experience if you ask different I thought you were getting frustrated I was And and I and I saw I was like “Okay he’s getting frustrated ” And I thought to myself “He’s getting frustrated at me “ Yeah And the reason I was like I I I almost fell into your game psychologically because as we’re rolling and you’re getting more and more frustrated so you’re being more aggressive And part of your it seemed to me part of your frustration and your aggression was that I was not fully disengaging but I was not getting into this game that you were in And as I saw that you were going to keep coming with us and and and I said you know I don’t want him to get frustrated you know at me so maybe I’ll play this a little bit And then I said oh wait I’m I’m truly actually doing jiu-jitsu right? I’m doing jiu-jitsu I’m just straight doing jiu-jitsu I’m not I’m totally not getting into this uh headbanging competition No I’m going to be over here Yeah I’m going to be over here So I thought that was Isn’t that kind of whack? Not whack It’s actually really good how that worked cuz if you remember I kind of started to lose it mentally Not like temper-wise or nothing but like basically there’s like a there’s like a little small short list I don’t know if you know this I’ve mentioned this but not in this depth there’s a small list of things that I’m working on with you There’s like a small thing like where if I can remember to do this you know because you’re the kind where like you to defend a certain thing you got to focus really hard on defending it But the the drawback to that is when you start like really focusing on defending it all it takes is one little Yeah So there’s like a few things that it’s like dang I got to It’s like a balancing act you know? I don’t want to forget here I don’t want to forget here you know? So it’s like that And a lot of times and it’s it’s by my own evaluation It’s not based on like ex it’s in my own head like okay like I feel good about this is coming along you know kind of thing And whether you notice this or not towards towards the end like it might like it was just done gone the whole my whole thing it was just gone Yeah It was all just blind rage And that’s what I was truly thinking I was thinking I was thinking he’s getting mad at me but I’m really doing actual like the purest form of jiu-jitsu which is hey you keep coming with all that and I’m just going to keep adjusting and making other things happen that you don’t like It’s like it’s like this cycle you know Oh that was fun But yeah it was good though overall thinking that Yeah the the drilling Um different people have different philosophies on on drilling and cuz I mean like surfing you know like okay when you drill a move it’s like hey okay do the arm bar you know do the whole transition to the armbar and then you know just drill that When you first learn the arm bar it’s going to have more value because you have to just know the fundamental movements of the armbar And just like how you said like it’s going to be different when you do it live Do it live Yeah So once you kind of get the fundamental movement of the arm bar your legs got to be here They got to do this certain thing your arms position his thumb all this all that stuff Once you kind of get that down it’s like then you step into the value being now you got to know when to do it how to do you know I I don’t know if I’ve ever said this uh before on the podcast I’ve said it when I’ve t when I teach jiu-jitsu and this is something I say Okay there’s let’s say 10 things that you have to do right to make a move work Okay 10 You got to put your arms here You got to put your hips here You got to put your grip here Whatever those 10 things are that you got to do I can teach you about four of them Yeah Okay Maybe I can teach you five Maybe Jeff Glover or Dean or or a good instructor can teach you six or seven maybe even eight of those components There’s two more components you’re only going to figure out on your own You’re only going to figure out where to distribute your weight by yourself You’re only going to distribute how to time what the execution of the move is by yourself You’re only going to figure out how to feel what the other person and when they’re vulnerable to the move You’re only going to get those by doing it live Only going to be doing it getting it by doing it live So those are the components And I you know there’s more than 10 actually There’s probably like 80 Yeah that’s little components that you have to do And and what’s cool is when you really focus on a particular move you have you have all these components just lock solid And when someone’s really good at a certain move Yeah they just like there’s there’s so there’s they’ve been in that situation so many times They’ve been in that situation so many times that it it doesn’t matter They you’re doing something they already thought of that they’ve they’ve been in that position Like there’s a position in jiu-jitsu for those of you that don’t know There’s a position in judicial called 50/50 which we originally called kakaro which dean kind of I would say started because he did it in ADCC in 2003 and it was a position that we were doing all the time at that time but no one else was doing it and now a bunch of people do it Ryan Halls made it famous and he’s the one I think he coined I don’t know who coined the phrase 50/50 but he’s got academy called 50/50 Yeah been there It’s good Nice So So but it’s a position where you’re fairly neutral your leg positions are neutral So you’re you have the same leg position And so it’s who knows the position better will win And so this position that they call 5050 now which we used to call cockaro uh it’s actually Dean calls it 9010 Meaning hey I Yeah I have a 90% chance here You have a 10% chance cuz I’ve spent months Yeah sitting in this position So when you get someone that really knows a position well that puts you that puts you at a massive disadvantage if you’re going against them Mhm Yeah Cuz you guys both know the drilling part of it you know but he knows he knows the one million different other elements in life like surfing you know like you know when you first take surfing they’re like “Hey you know let’s do it on the sand when there’s there’s it’s just that’s basically drilling ” Oh yeah Yeah You’re drilling standing up and paddling Then you got to go out to the actual waves And man the waves that’s you know it’s different way And again these principles from jiu-jitsu they apply to everything that you’re doing And when you’re going through a leadership situation if you’ve seen it before if you’ve seen this kind of person’s attit like like I just told that story about hey you see a guy that’s learned something the first way he learned it in the SEAL teams is the way he believes it should always be Once I had experienced that it was much easier for me to handle Yeah You know so anytime you can open up your mind and pay attention to what’s going on around you it’s going to make you better at handling all these different situations that you come across in any environment This is absolutely leadership environment You get the person with the giant ego You get the person that’s that that wants to take over You get the person that’s scared to step up You get all those things You get someone that’s being disrespectful How you going well I’ve had that before Let’s just go let me approach it You know what I mean? So the more you get to handle these different positions or the more you can research them and drill them because the drilling does pay off Yeah You know that’s what all this gathering of trying to gather knowledge from various books and when you see something in a military situation like I see all these things in a military situation I go oh okay oh I see what they did here Oh I see what Hackworth did here I see what Patton did here Now I’m no Patton I’m no Hackworth but at least I have a heads up At least I’ve seen the scenario before I’ve I’ve gone through a mental drill of how it got handled Now there’s components that I need to figure out on my own Yeah But I’ve got the bulk of the move there Yeah I recognize what’s happening Puts me in a a little better situation than having no idea what’s happening and just getting flanked potentially Yeah Very And the guy getting nuts rolling the spaz is the name for that guy by the way It’s it’s a spaz Yeah White belt warrior Yeah sure There’s that I think that’s overall just kind of part of the game There’s so many different ways to like deal with I mean as a higher belt I mean you you kind of I mean I don’t think you have the curse of knowledge but you’re you’ve been a high belt for a long time So my talking me personally as an individual Yeah Yeah So when you get a guy who’s like when you first start like my memories of first starting and going with big big strong guys who are getting nuts it’s it it is hard to deal with man straight up like Yeah So and if you’re smaller it’s even you know it’s even harder And you could go “Oh man jiu-jitsu doesn’t work ” Right If you don’t if you’re a blue belt and you get a 200 if you’re 160 lb blue belt and a 300 or a 280 lb college wrestler comes in Yeah And it’s his first day you’re not going to be able to you there’s a very good chance you might be able to catch him You might be able to catch him Yeah But it’s no guarantee No it’s unlikely to I mean yeah it’s it’s hardcore Yeah Yeah And that’s part you might be able to apple guillotine on Yeah Maybe a blue belt might be a little challenging Purple belt you now purple belt Yeah different ball game See the holes which Yeah But those and Yeah if you’re and I’m just completely speaking just from experience and thinking of it right now but there are little things that you’ll see come forward like little tactics you can use to someone who’s just bigger stronger and spazzing Little tactics you and not to say that you’ll like you know end up tapping them out or whatever but certain things that will be successful in your situation So all you do is you you kind of remember those things kind of work on that and wait till you see the next little thing Okay Then after a while as your game develops it’ll be like “Oh shoot You have this handful of things that works on these types of guys ” You know Glover he he he like does best against He goes “Yeah guys that are big and strong are you know sort of his his game matches really well against him against Jeff ” Yeah Because he’s just so fluid Yeah So yeah All right J like yourself I tend to have low opinions slashexpectations of people My question is how do you act friendly with someone when you know they’re trying to play passive aggressive power games with you? Say say you know a person and you know he’s a snake but social and work situations demands and expects that you act like their friend How do you reconcile that within your mind? Is that or is that not being fake? I know you’re going to say play the game but but do I really have to play these snake games just to get ahead in the world? All right So first of all from the first part of that this this blatant statement that I have a low opinion of people is actually factually not true I I don’t come out of the gate with a low opinion of people That’s actually not true I have high hopes for people that they’re going to do well but I don’t have expectations that they’re going to perform There’s a difference there right? I don’t view people in a low my opinion of people is not low out of the gate but I don’t layer heavy expectations on them because that’s unfair right? So that’s number one Um I set the bar low so people can pleasantly surprise me But believe me I don’t have a low expectation or a low opinion of people Now the question yes you absolutely called it and what I was going to say play the game right? Yeah Yes that’s what you’re going to do Now let me let me put you this way You got snakes okay? If you don’t learn to play with the snakes you’re never going to get the antivenenom from their fangs right? You’re never going to get them figured out And if you don’t figure out how to get the antivenenom the snakes are always going to own you So you got to learn how to deal with snakes I had a kid when I was at team two kid from Arkansas or something and we were out in the hills somewhere and there was a rattlesnake and he grabbed that thing like he was picking up a like he was picking up a a a pair of socks It was like no factor Boom Walked over picked up the snake whacked it against the tree I said “Okay this dude knows how to deal with snakes ” And it’s the same thing here People are snakes Does that mean you just avoid them and you’re not going to play the game? And the worst thing you know what you don’t do with a snake is you don’t walk over and get all like intimidate them and get in their face and so it bites you Yeah And and poisons you right? So yes you got to play the game People like this exist right? And and so let’s say let’s take a uh let’s say you take the moral high ground and you refuse to work with and accept and be humane with these snakes Okay? If that’s what you do now guess what? Now the snakes don’t like you Now they see you as a threat and now they attack And like I said this is when they bite and they poison and they kill you And what good are you now? You’re dead So you can’t help anybody when you’re dead You can’t achieve your goals You can’t help the team You can’t accomplish the mission because you are on the moral high ground Now let’s say that you learn to play the game You learn how to handle those snakes like that young boy from our from Arkansas You learn their moves You get the antidote You get the antivenenom for their poison And you actually in this process you become immune to their attacks and you reach a point where they actually don’t attack you because they’re familiar with you and they trust you And when that happens then you can overcome their weapons You can rise up You can get control of them and you can utilize them for your own purpose right now If that purpose was something that was self-centered or something that was for your own good and not for them or not for the team then it’d be a form of manipulation and it’d be pretty negative But if all you’re doing is trying to get these snakes on board with the program to help the whole team win we got no issue with that We got no moral issue with that I got no moral issue with me treating people nicely to try and get them on board with the program so that they can help our team win I got no issue with that moral or otherwise So that’s the answer I think You know when the time is right you you be nice to those snakes When the time is right you put that little stick with the noose around the end of it You put it around their head and and you and you collect their venom and you can use snakes to do things like kill rats right? Snakes can be used for some kind of good at some point Now I know it’s hard right? I know it’s hard And is it being fake? Maybe it is May maybe that is being fake but you’re doing it for the good of the team So again it’s not for personal gain That’s a huge different And also if you think about this idea of being fake if you would be nice to people to help the team win then isn’t that actually you right? So how can you be fake by being you? Right? If my if what I do is hey I I help people and I get in their head and I’ll I’ll be nice to them so we can win If I do that that’s me That’s not being fake That’s actually what I do That’s not being fake So I think regardless in the end it is something you have to do You do have to play the game Um and that is how you’re going to help your team win And it’s also if you want to get those snakes to come over to the light and get away from the darkness You’re not going to do it by trying to kill them All you’re going to do is offend them and they’re going to attack you Like I said if you show them a good example if you’re productive and when you get all that stuff done and you accomplish your mission and what you do is you say “Hey it wasn’t me to accomplish the mission It was the snakes They did it ” You know what? Those snakes start to stand upright They start to de defang themselves and they start to realize that maybe they can do some good out there too I like the snake analogy Hey he started it Yeah that um Oh commentary like No no no no no You’re saying you know how you slowly build that relationship or whatever That part’s hard because it takes like time It takes time but harder than time is it takes the stomach right? Because you you got the guy that you know is a slimy guy that’s just looking out for himself and you got to go “Hey man what’s going on?” “Hey Bill what’s happening? Good to see you ” Yeah Hey Yeah No good Yeah Didn’t had a great weekend Thank you Yeah How was your weekend? Yeah You know so you’re in that mode and you got to gut through that because you know you’re a good person Right Right I think Right Right I think Yeah especially passive aggressive like that can be tough cuz a lot of times it’s way easier if I’m like if I if I launch a confrontation against you it’s way easier mentally to be like okay we’re in a little battle right now it’s easy but if I just do like one little dig and then kind of walk away or something like that it’s like oh man that can be way more like trying on your mind on your patience you know and then when you when you battle through that right or the idea of I got to battle through this okay it’s going to be hard just you know mentally whatever I got to battle through that Oh but guess what? You got to do that for a long time That one time that that you think that was hard All right Well you got to keep on doing that It’s a continual seething evolution that happens over and over again It does make it challenging But I think if you just know this if you know if you can see the light you know what you can do too and I hate to use this word because it seems to be a trendy word right now You got to gamify it a little bit You know when somebody does something passive aggressive to me I’m like score I’m going to have fun with this Hey you’re right That was a really good job that your team did over there You know when they say saw the little dig at me so yeah I think you guys did fantastic I didn’t foresee that at all Yeah you’re you you’re crushing it Just I I say “Oh oh that hurt but guess what? I’m going to win in the long run I just won a little battle against you ” Yeah And don’t let these little things bo Don’t let the little things bother you man Think about the big stuff You got big stuff to worry about out there You can’t let the little things bother you And are you on the right path? If you’re trying to do the right thing for the right reasons man it’s all good Doesn’t matter what else is going on I’m good with it And that’s it And that’s what I mean by the by kind of the light at the end of the tunnel Like you you know like you know that’s where I’m going This is just part of the thing You know I see the whole path kind of thing And it just makes it easier when you kind of know that But when you’re at that time passive aggressive are the worst man The kind where I see see you talk about passive aggressive being the worst I don’t This is not like this thing that bothers me Yeah I don’t know It doesn’t It’s never been a big issue for me When somebody’s passive aggressive with me I just Okay cool I see the game we’re in I’m gonna play that I’ll play that game I’m good with it man See if you can just look at it like that and look at it like that Yeah man It It would make it It would almost make it the opposite situation Like it would almost be pleasure It does Cuz I don’t I’ve never had a big issue with some guy that’s being p I’ve never had that Yeah Like oh I see what it’s a little shot right there You know what? Go throw some credit at him I’m gonna flank them Yeah they’re going to be good Not worried about that person That person’s not really secure in the first place right? And they’re sort of one of these slimy snakes right? That are trying to make things happen That’s okay I’ll just just help them Help them out You know what? You’re trying to be passive progressive I’m going to bring you out in the open Bring you out in the clear Not enough not in a defensive way but you know what? I think you’re right about that I think you could do a better job here Come on and help my team or whatever Yeah Because when they’re doing that what are they attacking? Your ego You’re They’re attacking your ego So if you just get over that thing and just say “You know what? No big deal ” Yeah that’s good Oh I see what’s going on here Let’s bring it out in the open Bring it out in the open Expose the ambush and just say “Hey buddy Oh yeah We’re good Let’s start Let’s Let’s move forward together as a team “ How How’s that sound? I’m I’m down Dang Hard one to contend with Charles Oh you know what? And I’m thinking about this I’m like “Yeah that sounds so easy ” But you know what? I realized it’s one like I care about the person and they be passive aggressive like or if I care about like their opinion or something Did I say that you had to offend them? No no no no no It’s not not in that way Not in the way where like I might offend him but like if like you care about what they think you know? Okay And they’re like what’s wrong with that? I guess nothing But I guess maybe that’s where my sensitivity to it is I mean co-workers maybe in I haven’t had co-workers in a long time Well I guess you’re a coworker but you’re not passive aggressive but nonetheless straight aggressive You’re more aggressive not pass maybe it would be in a situ like maybe a co-orker situation would be the kind of situation that I’m like thinking about where people will be more sensitive than it’s You know what? Actually the other day you and I had a conversation You might have been being passive aggressive No maybe you we were we were trying to do something You said “Hey you know I’m just not sure if this is like really something we should do ” And I was like “Cool Don’t do it No Oh okay Okay That wasn’t passive passive aggressive That was like um it was different It was like treading lightly you know You know like it wasn’t necessarily straight dope Um you gave me a little bit of a indication I said “Oh there’s something going on Some kind of ambush here ” I said “Okay come on out We’re good Let’s bring it out in the open cuz I’m good It’s not that it’s like you know I respect your opinion Let’s go with it No factor Make that happen “ That was good That’s how I roll Yeah the passive aggressive is is the kind where um like you know if if I’m mad at you for something and then I’m like nope all good but meanwhile my body language is saying you know it’s like that kind of stuff Is that even passive aggressive? That is what passive aggressive is It’s like it’s like like oh it’s all good but then like little digs are indicating other stuff It’s like this weird thing It’s Yeah Super whack Yeah Like I said when I when someone’s being that with me I’m gonna bring them all the way out I’m gonna bring them from passive to just straight aggressive so that we can get through it because I’m not going to get This is the thing If we’re on a team why are we going against each other? Yeah What’s probably at the root there is just ego situation Yeah If you can put that to rest you’re good Hard though Hard to put that ego in check for all of us Yeah Yeah man I mean co-workers are your peers So you know it’s natural to kind of care what they think even if you don’t like them you know? It’s just I think it’s just natural Yeah Of course people want to do a good job and Yeah and want other people to think that they’re doing a good job Yeah There’s nothing wrong with that So when they start throwing jabs it’s okay You know what? Why are they throwing a jab? Maybe you’re not doing as good of a job as you thought you were and now it’s taking a little shot to your ego So let’s address it Let’s figure out what the issue is Yep Yeah Huh This is like jiu-jitsu Yeah I’ve done this move I’ve seen this move before Rock and roll Next question What is the best case you’ve ever heard against extreme ownership? And what’s your response? Or alternatively are there situations where extreme ownership is the wrong answer? If you’ve never heard an argument against let me propose two Okay One extreme ownership focuses too much on achieving victory through focus on strategy and tactics Let me before you even go there Mhm I got asked that question at the muster Is there such a thing as too much extreme ownership? And I said well yes there is actually such a thing as too much extreme ownership for instance Mhm And I I actually broke it down to the fact that there’s two types of extreme ownership Yeah That you’re going to have Internal and external Internal is I own everything And I know that but I’m not sitting here telling everyone right? External is hey guys I’m going to own this This is me This is mine So you can easily see from there where you can overplay your hand of external extreme ownership For instance Echo you’re in charge of this project that we’re doing I want you to do it like this cuz I own it Like like that’s obviously wrong right? So if I’m trying to get people to do things if I’m trying to use decentralized command and all I’m telling everyone is like “This is my project I own it Echo you do this This is your part of the project but the project is mine ” Right? Does that make does that motivate you in any way? No Okay So we’re not going to do that That would be too much extreme ownership It would be too much outward extreme ownership Now if So what I want to do is I want to say echo dude this is your project I’m going to sit back let you run this thing I think you got a really good idea and vision on how this is going to work and I think you could actually do a better job than I can do So here’s here’s the goal that we’re trying to accomplish and if you just you know come up with a plan and and tell me how you’re going to execute it I’m I’m standing by Right now you’re like “Oh Jo trust me to do this That’s pretty cool ” Right? That’s awesome So now we have a good thing going So that’s that’s where I’m going to keep my ownership internal I’m not going to project it on you to keep it internal Now where this flips is the project fails M and clearly the example now becomes crystal clear because now if I use external ownership and I’m saying I I should use external ownership and when the boss says hey Joo your team failed on this mission I’ll say you know what we did I made some mistakes here’s what I did wrong here’s we made the wrong investments I didn’t allocate resources well here my fault we’re gonna get it fixed next time around won’t happen okay that’s cool that’s I’m now correctly using excessive extreme ownership to take ownership of the project that you actually screwed up Sure Now obviously the wrong thing would be “Hey Jo this project failed ” And I say “Oh that’s cuz Ekko dropped the ball on this He didn’t get this done in time and Ekko’s got issues over here ” Now that’s not good I want to take I don’t want to use that I’m keeping my ownership internal I’m being lame basically So yes the the the argument against extreme ownership is yes if you take too much ownership of a project and you’re not letting your you’re not using enough decentralized command That’s why there’s a dichotomy between those two There’s a dichotomy between extreme ownership and decentralized command And if I use too much extreme ownership when I’m trying to execute decentralized command it’s not going to work right Yeah Now once a mistake happens or there’s failure that’s when you step in and take ownership And by the way you should have taken ownership all along to make sure that the project didn’t fail But these things happen You don’t win every single time Don’t care who you are Now he gave a a couple examples I I’ll let you proceed with the question good sir Okay He’s going to propose two examples Okay Extreme ownership focuses too much on achieving victory through focus on strategy and tactics but not assessing whether war was worth fighting in the first place Uh for example maybe you prioriti prioritize and execute and cover and move and institute decentralized command to become the leading buggy whip manufacturer in the country right before Henry Henry Ford releases the Model T Or maybe you built the tightest sharpest most aggressive sales team in history but the product they’re selling is praying on the weakness of poor or ignorant Okay so this is fairly simple uh and in the book extreme ownership I believe chapter three is called believe that is you got to believe in what you’re doing and part of believing in what you’re doing is understand why you are doing and what you’re doing and how it is beneficial in the world right so for instance both these examples would fail the test of believing in what you’re doing they would fail the test anyone that was in the transportation industry at the turn of the century and would understand that the buggy the horse buggy was doomed when they started seeing reliable cars come out on the streets And somebody that truly exercises extreme ownership would step up would adapt which is another key concept of extreme ownership and lead the transition from buggy whips to this new technology of cars So it’s okay It’s not you’re going to step up You got to make changes That’s part of ownership is looking and assessing The other example where you’re leading extreme ownership you’re leading something that is praying on weak people Well then that doesn’t pass the test right? That doesn’t pass the test in believing what you’re doing Because if I’m like “Hey you know what I’m going to get out there and do? I’m going to get out there and pray on extreme people ” Yeah You know that’s what I’m going to do Now of course if you have a person that’s a sociopath or or doesn’t care about others are only out for themselves and they exercise extreme ownership in order to accomplish an evil mission Well yeah that’s going to be bad cuz people that people that take ownership of things can make things happen And if their cause is evil then that’s going to be bad It’s going to be a bad situation So you know the the thing that’s inherent in extreme ownership is a true understanding of the mission and belief of the mission and the knowledge that you’re doing the right things for the right reasons which is why these two examples are are actually non-issues And then he gave another example What’s example number two? Yeah Example number two is the time and focus commitments required to practice extreme ownership come at too high a cost to your family who didn’t sign up for this for you know didn’t sign up for this mission and in the end the the gratification of having achieved your objective won’t be worth what you’ve given up in your personal life Perhaps substantial ownership quote unquote is a better fit for most people Okay Well let’s just not forget that extreme ownership is not just about business in any stretch It’s about life and you have to own the outcome in life And that inherently includes balancing between what you do for business and what you do with your family Now I’ll tell you that we hear all the time about how extreme ownership actually saved marriages Not hurts them but saves them And you know the husband will stop blaming his wife or vice versa and look at themselves and see where they can improve Instead of blaming your wife for what’s going wrong you say “Oh maybe it’s not cool that I do this particular thing that I know annoys her ” Right? Take some ownership of that take ownership of the relationship and the problems in the relationship and they fix them instead of making excuses or passing the blame So extreme ownership is going to help that family And if you listen to the the the podcast with JP with JP Dell on it which is number 46 JP’s taken ownership of his marriage which they had actually were divorced at the time and applied the simple laws of combat right? Simplify cover and move and and got his marriage back on track And so so extreme ownership is not 100% focused on business It’s focused on life And the dichotomy is also there that I talk about all the time that you have to balance all the opposing forces It’s a chapter in the book called the dichotomy of leadership right? You got to balance these opposing forces in your world Now one of those opposing forces is balancing the the the pull of your family with the pull of your work And yeah you can go too far in one direction You can go so far in one direction that you lose your you can go so work so hard and do such long hours that you lose your that that you lose your family Mhm You can also do the opposite where you’re you don’t do enough for at work and you focus so much on your family that you lose your job Which one of those is a good outcome? Yeah Neither That’s why you have to balance Neither one of those is a good outcome Yeah That’s why you have to balance Mhm And by the way it’s one of those things too I I’ve seen this happen with you know friends of mine that have gone on sort of a breakdown kind of downward spiral in their life I think this is problematic People start having trouble with their marriage right? And they quit their job And they think “Oh now I’ll be able to spend more time ” But now all of a sudden they don’t have any money and it turns into a disaster And I always say “Look man think about this Your job is what how you provide for your family So let’s have a plan before we move in this direction You got to balance If you if you because if you throw everything like I just said if you say “Okay my job’s you know I’m too stressed out and I’m just going to leave my job and just focus on my family ” Now you’ve got no income You got a whole new level of stresses coming at you because who’s going to put the food on the table? Yeah that kind of like uh one guys they stop working out after they get married because oh I got to focus on my family my kids you know and they stop working out but oh health down you know health down energy down you know you become a low energy father we don’t want that that’s bad for everybody that’s bad for the whole family so yeah that’s another thing if you got if you got your your wife or your husband is saying hey you know you’re working out all the time or you know I don’t like this say hey here’s the benefits Yeah Do you want me to be around for an extended period of time? You want me to be alive past 60? Do you want me to be healthy? Do you want me to be able to defend our family should there be some kind of an encounter? Yeah I know I do want to be able to defend this family So yeah I got to spend a little extra time on the gun range Yeah I got to spend a little extra time on the jiu-jitsu mat Yes I’m going to work out That’s I’m doing that You think I’m doing it for me? I’m doing it for us Doing it for us Yeah I’m doing it for us Now of course you got to balance that too cuz you can go overboard there too Yeah working out Gotta be careful like working out is not to be confused with going to the gym There’s some there’s a huge separation there Yeah So guys will like go to the gym or even the jiu-jitsu mat because let’s face it there is a big element of social you know that social component in jiu-jitsu and stuff like when you go to jiu-jitsu like you there’s a lot of hanging out You mean talking to other people? Talking to other people Yeah you’re friends You know you know what I’m saying? Of course So some people they’ll be like “Hey I’ll go to jiu-jitsu ” Meanwhile new baby whatever Hey I’m going to jiu-jitsu But then they’ll roll for the hour hour and a half and then three and a half four hours later they’ll come home I was at jiu-jitsu I was doing jiu-jitsu Here’s the benefits Like yeah you did the jiu-jitsu for an hour and a half the other for what however long you were cruising with your friends in the lounge drinking acai Yeah Don’t do that So don’t confuse it is you got to have balance or use it You know how people will use it Well I gotta go but meanwhile yeah that’s good And you know these questions what I liked about him is he’s saying “Hey you know basically put the extreme ownership attitude into the UFC cage and let’s see how it does in these problem examples ” So I think uh I think it does all right Or just get your home gym you know? Yeah I definitely recommend the home gym Jaco do you follow stoicism? Did Zen practice lead to your thoughts about detachment and ego? So I get asked these questions the other day on Twitter and as you know when I’m answering Twitter I’m doing pretty tur answers because I’m answering a lot of different questions What is tur short? So this one I particular I remember the answer someone said “Do you follow stoicism?” And I wrote back “No you no don’t ” And then a while later I get you know the thread back and the guy come back and said something along the lines of like you know I don’t know what it is you don’t agree with with stoicism It’s very similar to what you believe or something like that He wasn’t being a jerk He was just like you know you know what’s what’s wrong with you? Why don’t you practice stoicism? And here’s the deal and I’ I’d love to come back here and tell people how learned I am and how well read I am about the philosophies and the ancient cultures and the Eastern religions and all matters in the world philosophical But the fact is I’m not I’m not And actually when I was a kid and by the way a kid for me lasts a long time I mean kid for me goes pretty recent you know? I mean six months ago I kind of consider myself a kid But when I was a kid the teachings of philosophers and of the ancients those that information was transmitted by academics right by teachers or by professors professors And to be blunt and frank when I was a kid there was a lot of people in that realm in the academic realm that didn’t exactly command my respect Now they were people that went to college I wanted to learn from people that went to war That’s what I wanted Mhm Now the part that I missed was that many of the ancients were warriors and their teachings were important And through my own arrogance looking at these professors and these teachers ah I don’t need to learn anything from that person I’m going to go in the military I’m going to learn from a gunnery sergeant in the Marine Corps That’s what I was thinking But the fact is the reading and the studying and the schooling did not really lead me to any of my beliefs or values It was life that did It was it was the things I experienced that brought me to this place where I am right now Not the books that I read not the classes that I attended Then like I said of course part of this a big part of this was just my own ignorance and ego me saying “What can these professors teach me?” And and that’s why footnote right now caveat or or secondary thought everyone out there when you have the opportunity to learn take full advantage of it And I know now again I know now that you can learn from anybody You can learn from anybody Everybody’s got something to teach you So open up your mind And that being said since I was too stupid and arrogant to learn oftentimes to learn from books and teachers I had to learn from life And as I look now yeah I see similarities between Again I’ll use the word beliefs but I think that’s a strong word But I see similarities between what I think and the other philosophical thoughts throughout the ages And I think that’s partially I think that’s actually not even partially I think that’s because there are really are some universal truths for humanity and for people And I think that if you walk the path of life and you pay attention to what’s happening around you and you’re exposed to joy and you’re exposed to suffering and you’re exposed to love and to hate and to war and to peace I think if you have led down that path and you have followed down that path I think that all the paths they they kind of arrive at some place that’s fairly similar And the term that they kind of use is this this term of enlightenment And again I think that’s definitely too strong of a word for what I’m trying to say but that’s sort of a a a broad term that captures it But I think these paths they all lead to a similar form of enlightenment And and I don’t think it really matters what terrain you went through or what specific path you took I think that we see that the the path looks very similar and it says the same things when you get to the end It says to be disciplined It says to keep your ego in check It says to keep things simple and work hard and tell the truth and believe in what you say and what you do and treat other people with [Music] respect And when you start getting overwhelmed with the emotions you got to detach from those And I think that there’s things like those that are just universal truths And I think you can find them in what the Buddha said or what Marcus Aurelius said or what the Bible says or what any number of religious or philosophical teachers I think they’re all pretty similar and I think you can learn them from those ancients or I think you can find them yourself And unless you’re of course too stubborn and arrogant to listen and hear the lessons of the past but if you’re not I think you can get there And that’s sort of how I arrived at again the this this the word is too strong but the way I think I’ll put it to you that way The way I think it’s where I ended up and I didn’t get too much direction along the way and now it’s really obvious I mean when you look at and I’m sure we’ll do Marcus Aurelius at some point uh you know because his you know stoic sayings are awesome and they totally match And I wish I would have I wish when I would have learned about Marcus Aurelius in sophomore year in high school I said “Wow this guy’s got it together I’m going to listen to him He was a warrior ” But I didn’t do that Why? Because the guy that was teaching me I was saying “No well this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about This guy’s some teacher right?” Yeah There’s a reason they’re called teachers So they can teach you but you got to be willing to listen and learn So you know I always try and I’ve talked about this when we talked about the the Jaco Academy right? Having a school I always talked about tying this thread between all this history in the world So you so that people so the kids can understand what it means and where it came from And I think that that’s something that I never made those connections when I was a kid I never made those connections in high school You know even when I was going to college I went to college I was pretty old when I went to college for a college student No I think I was 27 right? So I was a mature allegedly mature I wasn’t mature You know what I was trying to do when I went to college? Get good grades Beat the teacher It was me against the teacher The the the contest was grade I’m going to beat you I wasn’t saying you know what this guy really has a lot to show me This guy really I can learn a lot from this I can apply this in my life No I wasn’t saying that I was too stupid I was too arrogant to say that So what did I do? Studied hard Memorized what they told me to memorize That’s what I did I wasn’t I was focused on the grade not on the learning Now I’ll tell you that’s not an excuse for oh I’m not going to worry about the grade I’m just going to learn No wrong answer I’m saying this specifically for my kids that are probably listening to this and they’ll say like well dad you know I’m focused on the learning Negative You focus on the learning Good You still get your A That’s what you get You still win You still win So that’s I guess you know again I’m I’m sorry and I think sometimes people get caught up in like it’s a you ever heard me say talk about um when when we got back when I got back from my first deployment to Iraq and we actually when I was in TU Bruiser with Leif we had a saying it was a joke it was a weew weeb which stood for when I was in Baghdad right when I was in Baghdad Because a lot of people now everyone had done one deployment to Baghdad and so anytime they were having any kind of a conversation they’d say well when I was in Baghdad and we go wee weeb So you get some guy some instructor or some cadre from the training from the training detachment that would be like when I was in Baghdad we did this every time and it’s okay wee weeb right because it’s a way of saying oh look to I this is this is confirmed in the past and therefore it’s correct right and I always said man you can’t say that you can’t say wee weeb right you can’t say when I was in bag you can’t say this is the way this is I learned what you say should be able to stand on its own two feet that’s my point so I think a lot of times People say “Oh well Marcus Aurelius said this or the Buddhist says this and therefore it’s it’s it’s correct ” Yeah they very well might be correct but let’s get the argument not to not to use their quotes Why don’t you come up with something to stand on your own two feet? Yeah Again nothing wrong with using the guidance of the ancients right? There’s nothing wrong with that That’s brilliant From all these books the Bible’s got all kinds of things in it that are very impactful Great Great proverbs to live by but you know what? Where’d they come from? And why not figure out how to use them or how to how to make them stand on their own two feet? Were you not just pointing to you know well it says this there it’s the book says this Mark Cerelius said that Buddha said this other thing No no Let’s let’s develop our not not develop our own but let’s make sure we test what we’re saying we believe in what we’re saying That’s how I ended up where I’m at So you know kind of a rough path to take Some things in life you got to learn on your own though too Yeah Yeah A lot Most of the time that’s forunately Yeah Unfortunately a lot of things you got to learn only through experience Weew weeb Wee weeb when I was a magnet You just just like rank just like I can’t say like echo I outrank you therefore you will do it this way Just like that I also can’t say echo I did it this way in the past therefore it’s the correct way to do it Those are equally bad arguments Yeah don’t do them Yeah I hear that a lot though when you know especially when when I first got into reading I well more so than I’d hear it I’d kind of think about that where I could be like hey you know if I come across a situation where I’m going to apply some knowledge that I learned and if I’m in a situation where I got to convey the the merits of that knowledge you know it does feel weird to be like hey the book said it this way and more like you’re just this like blind per like you don’t really understand the value of of what you learn You just oh it said to do it you know No if you have to if you have to refer to the source without if if I just say oh Ekko we need to do this way because the book said this right? No that’s not a good answer What you should be saying is you know I read this and here’s why I see it apply and here’s what this book says but this is where I think it you know you can use it maybe to help your your argument but don’t let your argument rest on this thing Yeah Yeah That’s my opinion Yeah Know yourself I’m going to go ahead and 100% agree with you And I was going to say unless that book is about putting together your computer then you just follow the book But when you really think about it still it still holds up You should understand the computer and how it works Yeah I’m not going to get into that game Anyway all right Uh let’s go one more Okay let’s do it What do you do on the days when you’re just not feeling it? Those days Those days when I’m tired or worn out or just basically sick of the grind what do I do on those days? I go anyways I get it done Even if I’m just going through the motions I go through the motions I don’t really want to work out I work out I I really don’t want to hammer on a project I hammer on the project Don’t really want to get up and get out of bed Yeah I get up and get out of [Music] bed Now these could be signals that you need some time off And those signals might be right They could be correct But don’t take today off Not today Wait until tomorrow Don’t Don’t give in to the immediate gratification that is whispering in your ear Shut that down Do not listen to that little voice Instead go through the motions Lift the weights Sprint the hill Work on the project Get out of bed Now as an overall rule I do not like procrastination You need to get things done But if you are going to rest that is one thing that you should procrastinate on That’s the one thing I want you to put off until tomorrow And if when tomorrow comes you still feel like you need to rest or you need to take a break then okay take it But the chances are you won’t you won’t need that rest Chances are you will realize that the desire to rest was just weakness It was just the desire to take the path of least resistance the downhill path the easy path And by simply going through the motions you overcame that path and you stayed on the righteous path the discipline path You stayed on the war path which is right where you know that you belong And I think that’s all I’ve got for tonight Echo before we go um is there any way that people can support this podcast? Well yes there is actually Um all right Yeah we’ll go over a couple ways Uh the supplements That’s more supporting yourself ultimately because you do get 10% off and you get good supplements which is rare mind you but anyway Onit is a company It’s on com/joo That’s how you get 10% off Um Alpha Brain for your brain Shroom tech for your performance Body performance Warrior bars for your stomach Yeah bro We um I was in we were my friends came over from Arizona this past weekend and um I worked out or whatever They were still cooking So I busted out a Warrior Bar and we’re cruising and all the kids too two years three years old six years old and then they ate my warrior bars Kids like and it’s there’s a little bit of spice to it Did then did they then start getting after it? Yeah But in the spirit of accuracy they had been g getting after it big time even before that But um anyway the point there is that they do taste good Even threey olds don’t mind a little spice That’s how good they taste Yeah Yeah Not to say that you’re a three-year-old if you eat them though They’re good for They’re warrior bars Yeah Buffalo meat Gluten-free By the way they didn’t call them three-year-old bars Nope They didn’t call them formula They didn’t call them that It’s warrior bars Yeah No they’re good though Really? When I go on trips now like I go to speak with a company or I’m going to work with they you know a lot of times they provide lunch a lot of times now There’s warrior bars in lunch Just Just saying Oh man That’s advanced there’s they’re they’re they’re fully engaged in what we’re doing which is awesome And you mentioned us training Thank you for that by the way Bringing that up again Uh I was going to take some shroom tech just to be like today’s the day and I didn’t Mhm That was problematic You understand? Yes And I also you know when we got done yesterday I kind of led you in I said “Hey you know man you know what? Here’s the deal Cuz just for just to put this in context yesterday not a good day for Echo on the Mets It here’s the thing It started good Okay in my opinion given my my trajectory learning all the It wasn’t a great day right? For Echo on the Mat It was a day of of you you know they say either you win or you you learn Bro I learned a lot Yes Okay So So we get done and you know we’re doing a little debrief We got big Andy there too And I went over a little something with Andy I was like “Hey man I really feel this is good for you ” And let’s do it And I sit down next to Echo and I said “Hey man You know I don’t know You know today you just you know normally when you roll you feel like you know about this level and then today you felt about I don’t know about maybe 19% worse ” And of course he didn’t have his uh his his rash his his podcast rash guard on So I uh he was actually thinking I was going to tell him there was some real but maybe there is something real there I don’t know I don’t know Probably Mhm Nonetheless uh yeah So it could be attributed to one of those two things I didn’t take shroom tech and I didn’t have my rash card So one of those is then I think Well I like what you’re doing here Instead of blaming me Yeah you’re taking the blame on yourself Yeah What’s the saying? Um a a really good craftsman blames his tools Yeah I think that’s the actual saying Anyway back to the shroom tech That’s a good one for performance Alpha brain good too Anyway on com/joo 10% off Support your wallet Alleviate it by 10% Or give it a 10% break Yeah there you go And it supports this podcast You know it’s like a circle of support Like on it supports us We like support on it You think that technically even if onet wasn’t like we weren’t um sponsored by on it I have shroom tech I’ve been taking shroom tech before that So it’s kind of like you know anyway circle of support there Um another good way Amazon the Amazon clickthrough You go to the website com click through the Amazon link It’s also in the store Um click through before you do your holiday shopping or any shopping That’s a really good way The key there is to remember to do it and it doesn’t cost you anything What do you put a sticky on your computer? Yeah Um that’s a really good way to support um this podcast Does a lot cost you nothing and provides good support Yeah And it’s really kind of invisible to you other than that little motion So that sounds like a really good way to support the podcast It’s kind of like you ever you ever watch Jeff Bibos right? That’s his name The leader of Amazon Bezos Jeff Bezos Yeah Hey that guy seems to have enough money at amazon com that throwing a couple shillings at the podcast here Seems like a good plan to me We support that Yeah Yeah it’s good Clicking through Amazon is kind you know when you watch um Saving Private Ry Yeah you know at the end when the support comes it saves everybody Yeah it’s not that big of a deal I mean we we want the support but it’s not saving people’s lives but it’s kind of dope like that I’m saying you know it’s Anyway it’s good Amazon Yeah Click through the website That’s cool for your holiday shopping Or just some duct tape Somebody sent me some Penn State duck duct tape Who’s that? Did Did Debbie No that wasn’t Debbie That was Sarah Sarah Sarah One of those ladies Now everything’s covered in Penn State duct tape Yeah I know Speaking of which speaking of Sarah Armstrong yes the girls t-shirts are in I didn’t announce that before People have been you know in the game and and kind of seeing them and but yeah Okay The girl the girls shirts are in They’re V-neck They’re shirts for the women Four colors Black approved Gray approved OD green approved pink All right Um sorry Brad You got you got what do you call it? Out out voted Got vetoed or something Yeah vetoed You got vetoed Um you were literally the only one who didn’t want Pink Seriously I know It’s like your podcast and all this stuff Okay Anyway they they’re good man I think they came out good Uh we got some good reviews from from Ally Ally by the way Ally and Cassie a lot of times when they send the um you know the package they send the packages out These are for those of you that don’t know that’s the crew Yeah That the behind the scenes that that packages up the packages Yep and they get after it like they like Alli will be um like if someone’s from I forget where but it was like Dale King was one of them where she’ll write like go Cubs or you know like if if that’s your if you’re in Chicago or something she’ll be like go Cubs and she’ll write it on your personal message Yeah Like Yeah Cuz she’s like you kind of feel like you know the person you know cuz really when you think about it it’s like oh shoot I know how big they are cuz they’re shirt side I know where they live you know kind of thing I mean it’s not like they’re going to stalk nothing like that but I’m just saying they they kind of they’re not going to stalk you but they’ll support your local baseball team Yeah Yeah If need be Nonetheless the only reason I bring it up even they were like “Dang these are really good shirts “ Okay we get the message Good They’re pink They’re not pink Some are pink Some are OD Green Discipline equals freedom Women’s shirts Money Also of course uh uh Rashgard’s 19ish% improvement so far holding up That claim has been holding up UFC fighters confirming Jo confirming with me when I didn’t have my rash card and I was 19% less effective Anyway and they happen to look really good according to the feedback I’ve been getting So anyway if you go to jockostore com you can look at them and look at the girls t-shirts and the other shirts on there If you like them get one Support that way represent Um also hoodies Yes of course Hoodies are out Um chilly outside Yeah you need a hoodie Yep It’s like a heavier weight It’s not the heavy heavy heavy heavy That was four heavies I think Yeah It’s not like snow you know like two heavies Well cuz someone emailed me I gotta remember all the people like who actually asked these specific questions but it was like how heavy is it? Is it um well it was what was the brand? Cart carart Cart Carheart Yeah Is it like I I understand a cart heart that that’s going to you know provide this and you know as far as warmth straight up arctic situation Yeah Exactly Right So that’s a good example So I’m like you know how is it comparatively it’s not that it’s not Arctic conditions It’s like like coke conditions What conditions? Kok What’s that? Monaca How about that? It’s Mona condition Kok is a mountain on Kawaii where you go up It’s like it’s Yeah it gets If you have any other references that no one understands that’s cool Do it Anyway it’s like it’s almost the heaviest as far as hoodies go but anyway they’re good Check those out If you like them go ahead support that way Grab one of those keep yourself kind of warm or like you know as far as when you work out and stuff or just wearing them So yeah there it is Um of course subscribe YouTube I’m putting more videos currently I’m putting more I put one the other day I’m put one today They’re like little bite-sized like bits you know cuz sometimes you don’t want to listen to the two hours especially on YouTube You just want to listen how do I like recover from setbacks at work Jo McNuggets Yeah exactly Right So you can you know you can look at them for like shorter times like three to I don’t know eight minutes or something Or if you know if you know someone who’s like “Hey you were asking me this question ” Remember you send them that boom advice It’s like sharable advice kind of thing Anyway that’s what you’re doing there Yeah So subscribe to YouTube You can support that way And iTunes of course And oh you got a problem Here’s a two and a half hour podcast Look at this podcast It’s like when people are like “Hey I’m trying to get over this situation at work ” And then they say “Hey read this book “ I’m like “Bro I go to work tomorrow “ Yeah Yeah Yeah I need to know now Yes Exactly So it’s kind of the same situation with those YouTube bike size videos Or you can just revisit the the the subject matter You know what I mean? Like if you listen to it let me go re Yeah Let me revisit it Reinforce Exactly So there you go And then Yeah Write a review on it It doesn’t take you long to cut those things out does it? Cuz I think you should just put a massive number of those out That’s my opinion Just to be on there right? Yeah A lot of times I’ll think of it in terms of like you know how when you put out the podcast every week it’s like “Oh the new one’s on Let me check it out ” So a lot of times I just I’m like dogmatic in that way where I just I think just through habit I I think of it that way So I’m like “Okay I’m put a bit out “ Wait you you just put one Can’t let it marinate for a little while before you put it in But yeah I shouldn’t think about it that way It just needs to be on there Think of it this way Instead of thinking of it that way think of it this way When you put one out that’s 5 minutes and 56 seconds long 5 minutes and 56 late later Mo moments later that someone’s waiting for the next one Yeah So hook them up Yeah Take care of some people Echo Charles All right Let’s do that I mean um Yeah And boom There you go Good Uh a couple other things Jaco White tea if you want to get some of that it’s probably probably going to be the only beverage you’re ever going to want to drink ever again And I think that there’s a time coming in the very near future where when you go to a bar or to a club out at night to have a good time I think in the future the only thing that they’re going to be selling in the bar in the club in the restaurant it’s just a white tea There’s not going to be any more beer no more whiskey no more wine no more poison that tastes like gasoline I declare that those days are numbered my friends And I think it’s going to be time people are going to be wanting to drink something that makes you smarter instead of something that makes you dumber Something that makes you stronger instead of making you weaker something that makes you healthier instead of making you sicker Dang So that’s why I think people are going to be on it Uh Amazon you can get some of that while you’re also on Amazon If you like this podcast and what we talked about you can get a book And this is sometimes people find the podcast and they haven’t read the book Extreme Ownership by me and my brother Leif Babin That’s pretty normal right? And sometimes it’s the opposite Yeah People got the book and then they got then they found the podcast So either way but I’m just confirming if you’re a person that listens to the podcast the book is also there You can grab that from Amazon And also if you kind of want to keep these conversations going with Echo Charles and myself you can find us We will be on the interwebs all of the interwebs on Twitter Instagram and of course we even on that Facebooky Echo is echo Charles and I am at Joo Willilink And finally thanks everybody for listening If you’re in uniform thank you for serving Thanks for taking the fight to the enemy Thanks for stopping criminals Thanks for putting out fires Thanks to all of you in uniform in service And the rest of you troopers out there fighting your own fight make it a good fight Make it the kind of fight that win or lose you walk off the field of battle knowing you gave it everything you could give and you had nothing left And that fight that fight that I’m talking about is life And while I was talking about going through the motions sometimes when you just haven’t got the intrinsic drive to go fullon at a task let me tell you what When it comes to life don’t just go through the motions Live Live Fight the good fight Live an outstanding life Don’t just go through life Don’t just get through it Instead get after it So until next time this is Echo and Joo out
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