Jocko Podcast 278 w/ Archer, John Dudley. The Wins Don’t Always Come Easy and You Don’t Always Win.

this is jocko podcast number 278 with echo charles and me jocko willink good evening echo good evening it’s a little cold outside but it doesn’t matter nothing else matters right now except doing my job right this job i take another step as gently as i can as quietly as i can this is where it all matters i can’t let them hear me if they do they’ll be gone and i won’t get my shot i take another quiet step i see my buddy freeze he sees them they must be in range my buddy slowly looks back at me and gives me a nod it’s go time i prepare my weapon by now i know this weapon well i’ve shot thousands of rounds through it in the last year for this moment ever since i was a little kid it’s been this way stalking through the woods closing the distance trying to see without being seen my adult life was much of the same sneaking around in the woods or in the desert or in the city or in the jungle i take a few more steps and find some cover by a tree this will keep me hidden my buddy gives me a hand signal he’s given me the range nothing else matters i initiate the procedures my mind is full but it’s empty my heart is beating but it’s steady it all comes down to this moment i’m alive now that may have sounded like a combat scenario but it wasn’t it was a description of a more recent pursuit of mine bow hunting and the buddy i reference is a real person a real person who’s a incredible archer an amazing hunter one of the best coaches i have ever worked with in any discipline and most important a friend that is always ready to help not just me but an entire community of people the world renowned founder of knock on archery john dudley dud what’s up man thanks for coming on to finish that story that was awesome it was like fire right yeah and especially this season where we were on a lot of bulls and that happened that little that little thing played out time and time time and time again and i ended up not getting any shots off but man it was freaking fun all right man let’s go there’s a lot of people that really don’t know much about you and let’s let’s go back to the beginning cause i have heard piece together stories of your life and there’s a lot of good ones man it’s always surprising that you’re here you weren’t arrested you’re not in prison you’re not dead you know there’s a lot of different avenues you could have headed down dang right yeah just a horrible i don’t deserve my wife or my son because like all the time i’m just like karma like he’s that real patient sniper and at some point like i don’t think he’s made any fires yet if he has they’ve been off so much i haven’t heard him come by but like i’m still waiting just to get sniped because i i deserve it if it happened all right so where were you born uh fort bragg because your dad was in the army yep yep and and is that where you did you spend any time in fort bragg do you remember to spend any time i don’t remember it no i don’t remember it because it was uh i was it was 76 and then i think by 77 we were in the mississippi delta yeah was he still in the army uh no i think he just got out and then what was what did he do once he got out of the army uh he was a he was pretty much like bill murray he was a groundskeeper for a golf course while he went to college you know after getting out of nom you know came back he was like he was like 100 percent you’re like freaking scoping out gophers and wait this is caddyshack bill murray yeah yeah okay yeah i remember i remember like being with him in that golf cart cruising around and he went to and this is stuff i haven’t even talked to him about this is just from memory from that long ago but i’m sure he went to delta state in cleveland mississippi my mom worked for baxter healthcare and that’s why i think we were there and so my dad went to college for psychology and you know i remember plugging learning to plug holes on the golf greens and and smoking that first ball washer with the golf cart when i was like i don’t even know how old i was i just know like you know my dad being like bring that golf cart over here and it was in reverse and i just stomped on it and just drove over the ball washer that’s the first time karma made a little that’s the first time karma started to go wait a second i need to be tracking on this dude yeah i mean i wonder what my dad would think like you know damn is that a sign like that would have been a that would have been a real easy one to get to get over yeah because it just i was i was a tornado for a while where so where’d you do like the bulk of your like when you were in let’s say like sixth seventh eighth when you start actually you know figuring out the world and all that where are you in um it would have been illinois we were in the delta until i was seven i think and then my mom got transferred up to northern illinois um to work for baxter and that’s kind of where i grew up and when i came up there honestly i was a little bit rebellious i’m not really sure why i just uh i don’t know just what i was into like i was a skater and honestly there was um i enjoyed skating i enjoyed like freaking ninja movies and so i like i built ramps and you know and people and i was just like a punk in northern illinois that you know when when everything was like skate or die and there’s you know all these like anti-skate things that was me so yeah at school you know it there there was definitely a little bit of i don’t know hate towards skating then and i wasn’t like i had no drive athletically i was just wanting to like pierce my ears like play with fireworks you know blow stuff up just like you know my first construction job i said was building ramps i mean i had ramps all over the place my sister freaking hated him how good how good at skating were you um i would say i was just below intermediate is it something were you how many hours a day were you skating like a lot yeah i had half pipes with some quarter pipes what’s up with the stellar level of just below intermediate because the only instruction i had was watching the search for animal chin freaking every day like in a big box of cereal and then go out and just try to get after it so what at what point or what was it that made you start doing athletics sports you teeing me up for this uh so it i think yeah is there some weird stuff yeah cause my dad was i always knew my dad was a super athlete you know he was my uncle and you know my mom always told me how athletic my dad was and um not to mention he was just good at you know anything like honestly even a skateboard he’s just like what’s that and i oh i you know i’m learning to skate on this half pipe and he’s just like oh let me check it out and then you just do it meanwhile you’re just over here driving into ball walkers exactly but uh no i i like i said i liked fireworks and liked you know blowing stuff up and you know one thing led to another and freaking burned my house down at 10 years old or 11 maybe 11 i mean literally yeah yeah everything except for what was in my dad’s car while he was at work and what was in my mom’s car while she was i think in puerto rico on a business trip how old were you i think i was like 11 or 12 how did it happen playing with fire freaking lit some stuff on my bed on fire and then like put it out called my dad and my dad you know he’s like did you get it out i said yeah i got it out and he goes is there smoke in the house i go oh yeah there’s freaking tons of smoke and he’s like open up all the windows he said you know he’s like i hate the smell of smoke you know get that [ __ ] out of there so i opened up everything and he’s like go open up the windows and everything come back and tell me what’s going on so i came back to the phone i’m like open up everything it’s smoking but smoke’s going out so he talked to me for a little bit and then he said well go check on it go back down and check on it and i went down and when i went down it was like engulfed because i just gave it oxygen you know i didn’t like if i would have just like taken that blanket and like you know if he would have just said go throw that blanket out in the yard like game over but you know i put it out and then freaking fueled like open the front door open the window and just freaking gave that thing what were you burning like like matchsticks were you burning like i think i was uh just playing flamethrower with a lighter and some aqua net that my sister had and so it so so the whole house burns down oh yeah everything yeah everything and so it was i mean i don’t really know what kind of conversation my parents had because they never they kind of asked what happened or something you know but they never like made me feel horrible about it and then they just let you i mean you must have felt like freaking horrible though oh still do i mean i laugh about it now but yeah like i think about you know because like all my dad’s you know all my dad’s military stuff like every picture he had from you know as a child you know like everything we had every single thing i remember it was in the winter so everything like froze like after they put it out and i remember digging through it with my dad you know we were like digging through the thing like a couple days later just trying to see what you can find and i remember we like we were digging and found this like closet that was in right inside our front door and it like fallen through and the like the glass doors were there and i remember my dad you know shucking the glass doors open and he had a pair of these like lacrosse winter boots and they looked brand new and i’ll never forget how excited he’s just like my boots man he freaking grabbed him he’s just like my boots are okay and i and i remember like that was it like other than what he had in his the trunk of his car and what he wore it that day like that was it so then we you know started rebuilding naturally i was a skater and not to mention uh 10 years old i was 5 foot 130 pounds so i was like short and fat you know short and chubby and so you know short and chubby skater you know wasn’t an athlete so then you know my dad could tell i was i was bummed out you know and so he kept telling me like you need to go just go do something you know just you know go get active hang out with your friends like you know he doesn’t want me to like sit around and get depressed about it so they talked me into going out to like a school dance or something you know this is whatever fifth grade or something i remember going and they they said like this hey this song’s dedicated to john dudley and it was burning down the house someone had one of the kids some jocko over there sent that one my way that’s unfortunately that’s exactly what that’s exactly my mode when i was a kid to be a little freaking savage yeah so then that’s amazing that your parents recognized that you felt enough guilt on your own without having to just turn the screws on your brain to make you feel even worse about it yeah i don’t know if i could have done it like i don’t know i don’t know what the conversation was they’ve never brought it up and there’s been times where we’ve talked about the fire you know that’s kind of how it’s referred to but they’ve never gone into detail like my dad’s never said like yeah man i knew if i freaking threw that [ __ ] on you you know it’d crack you or whatever but what happened was you know and you know maybe this is just my dad’s psychology but uh what happened was after that dance my dad knew like we need to get this guy out of this town so we moved about 45 minutes away and without him ever tell like saying anything to me i knew when i moved like i need i need to freaking make it right with my dad so that’s when i went and started i’m just like you know he’s i know he’s always wanted to be me to be an athlete so like i need to get my [ __ ] together and start getting into sports and this is how how old are you i think i was because you keep saying like 10 12 10 12 well there’s a big difference between 2010 yeah i think the i think the fire was when i was 10 and then we probably moved when i was 11 yeah because then by when i got into junior high school that’s when i’m like i’m gonna be an athlete what did it start with what was the first sport uh basketball um well yeah i think basketball football you’re just all in yeah basketball football running and then you know there was you had no experience playing basketball let’s say my dad always shot hoops yeah a little bit but then i started growing so i was like i remember at 10 i’ve got this football card and it says like it has your stats on the back and i think my grandma gave me that photo because we didn’t have any pictures you know going back pre-fire so i was like five foot 130 pounds i was like chubby then when i was a freshman so what is that 13 12 12 13 13 year freshman i think so then on that on that one i was six three 130 and then by the time i was senior i was six five 205 so i just like stretched out and just looked like this gumby going up and down the basketball court you know my dad’s like i always felt like if you tripped it’d sound like a chandelier breaking across the ground how much would you prac like okay so you get into basketball do you start saying because i mean that’s that’s a for you to make a transition from like hey i’m a skater with freaking whatever you probably had like the tony hawk bangs and stuff like this hell yeah so you had the tony hawk bangs then you’re like all right i’m going to be a basketball player you get a crew cut you start freaking training is it like that kind of are we talking rocky uh what’s that thing called montage is there a montage going on no not really because i still i mean i still liked you know getting in trouble and freaking blowing stuff up and you know ordering fireworks wherever i could or egging some houses or you know whatever kind of mischief st i stole my mom’s minivan one time she had this she had this pontiac transport you remember those ones it was like a wedge like the sloped note yeah because eventually my parents got divorced and i can’t remember when it was it was somewhere you know junior high or something like that but my mom traveled a lot and i was home on my own a lot um and so i remember you know my mom would have like cars take her to o’hare and so i remember one time like i’m just gonna go take that van out for rip you know and i’m just like all the ball washers in you know all in illinois yeah so i’m driving around you know seventh grade just driving around my town in this minivan and one of my buddies was on his bike like driving down the road so i pulled over i’m like what’s up man and he’s just like holy [ __ ] did you steal a car i’m like yeah it’s my mom’s and he’s just like ah and you know and i i thought i could drive pretty decent because i had uh my dad would never let me get like motorcycles or anything for obvious reasons but he let me get a boat he got me a a 12-foot boston whaler with a 25 horse on it so that’s like i put a thousand miles on that freaking thing dude i mean my dad would fill up that little five game five gallon gas can and uh the fox river chain was only a block for my house we live like right on a channel so i just drove that boat all the time so to me the minivan was gravy right no current you know didn’t have trim tilt like this was it wasn’t a pull start this was freaking gravy but uh i’m sitting there talking to this this kid and i see someone coming up behind me in the mirror so i said i go hold on let me freaking whip over you know and i remember putting in reverse and trying to like do a little you know whip in but that long beak on the front of that freaking minivan i ended up swiping this dude’s like back pegs and like took him out underneath like the front of the car and like bent the back of his bike up a lot so then i ended up having to you know trade him like my good bike i had a gt you know i had to trade him like a good freaking a good bike for the huffy yeah for this freaking huffy that he had and and i’m just like you’re not gonna say nothing he said no but you know looking back you know if any of our kids rolled in with a brand new freaking gt you know with the gyro on it freaking pegs on the front and back you’d be like hey whose bike did you steal so anyway you know fast forward today i’m knarked out always always happened the kid broke bro he broke big time this day i was like where the hell did you get dropped by me gave me hit me drove over me in the car yeah it was just you know stuff like that yeah then you hear like wait john dudley that little kid was driving his mom’s car i’m going over there right now yeah i don’t think anyone wanted to get close because yeah i mean i had i had freaking straight bangs down here slung it and uh yeah just i think i think when i got into sport there and originally i didn’t want to really play football i was supposed to play golf like my dad said don’t play football you’re not you know you’re too brittle go play golf and when i went to the high school like the tough kid in school came up to me and goes hey what are you going out for because i was standing in the line and he’s and he said i go i’m going out for golf he’s like no you’re going out for football and i said no i’m going out for gol i have to do golf and i remember he said uh well we need enough guys to scrimmage and he said you know i’m quarterback so he’s like you’re signing up for football or i’m going to beat your ass so i freaking signed up for football and never told my dad for like until he saw me in the paper what do you see you in the paper for well because i ended up becoming quarterback and like taking that kid’s job he was saying i would take my golf clubs to school because i’d say like he’s like how’s golf and i’m it’s all right but i was playing football because i kind of had to and i started out as like defensive end and then tight end and then i think i like chucked a football back you know i think i caught a pass and like win in the end zone and then the coach is like hey throw the ball back and i think i just freaking just hucked it and you just like whoa you know wait a minute so yeah just one thing led to another and um just i think i think i loved i don’t know just the constant challenge it’s hard to describe but it’s like if i know i’m not good at something which i really had never fueled that then it didn’t keep me coming like i’d get bored with it but if i if i wasn’t good at it or if i knew that i had room for improvement then then that’s the things that i progressed at but it just kind of got to the point where no matter really what the sport was i felt like i could do it above average and then i honestly like my body started to change so it went from like me being like the short fat skater to now i’m you know second tallest kid in the school and and growing and you know becoming an [ __ ] you know just kind of being you’re just growing up just being like overly confident you know but i felt i just felt so much confidence just it was like gas just sports for me was just gas because it’s like oh you want to do track okay go do track what did you do in track um high jump triple jump whatever i wanted pretty much honestly uh 100 200 400 and you did good at all of them yeah i mean i did for my team yeah i did good did you did the coaches like try and keep you focused on one thing i think yeah um like the idea that some people have that the best thing to do with their kid is put them in one sport when they’re four years old and just keep them focused on and then other people are like hey have your kids play a bunch of different sports and it’s going to make them more well-rounded in the end well it’s in a way you look at it like functional fitness now it’s proven that you know if i would have had more functional fitness in my lifestyle i would be feeling a little bit better today than i did pre-surf you know for the first time with you um because like some of my stuff is smoked probably because it’s not like functional fitness and i’m i’m a you know i feel like the reason i still today do good at just random things i pick up is because you know in when you do different sports you also get street smarts in athletics you know that’s the thing like there’s book smart people and then there’s street smarts people and as like an employer i you know i’m not i don’t look for a degree i look for work ethic and i look for someone that you know when they pull up and i look in their car it’s not a freaking wreck it’s not trashed you know and i look for people that have certain types of work ethic qualities because for me as an athlete i feel like even though i wasn’t like the pinnacle of all these different sports i also learned different mechanics and different like you know physical smarts from doing a lot of things and i always i always wanted to do good enough at it to where i felt like i could put it down and pick it up and still like represent it well you know if i felt like i if i did it and look like an idiot in front of people i’d want to do it more until i could get it figured out but my son you know coming from england he was into soccer first so he came over and you know he played soccer quite a bit but over here soccer’s like a one season thing so once he got into junior high you know he tried football and i realized that just wasn’t his thing you know it it just wasn’t you know getting hit and stuff just wasn’t his thing but he was like always fast you know he’s always fast and and he likes i mean he he performs at his highest if especially when he knows someone’s pumped about the fact that he just did good so uh i ended up talking him into swimming because he did um let’s see he did soccer i knew soccer was coming up we talked him into cross country and he didn’t really like the people loved the coach awesome coach and then i talked him into going into swimming went into swimming swimming had a a freaking awesome instructor military dude um super disciplined swam like honestly for how young he was i was like okay these guys are crazy two days like sharon’s getting up at 4 30 having him to the pool at 5 15 they’d do an hour practice and then shower and then she’d get him home to feed him before we’d take him to junior you know whatever high school or you know whichever so he had a pretty like awesome schedule i thought you know i’m like this guy andy was getting straight a’s which i don’t ever remember taking a book home like i didn’t i don’t even remember being assigned books yeah part of it was different back then bro it was different back then like i mean like i didn’t do like i see my kids my kids will have and they’re older now but when they were in school it was like homework every day from day one from like kindergarten on through high school hours and hours and hours of homework i never did homework homework was not a thing and i i wait now let me rephrase that it was a thing it did exist i knew that it was a thing in existence but it wasn’t a thing that i was doing right it wasn’t like oh it’s you know it’s in the afternoon i’m going to do homework now it was like the afternoon i’m going to throw rocks and [ __ ] like yes that was that was where i was at so what what sports did you end up playing because i know i like you rattled off one time to me you’re like oh i did freaking wrestling i did basketball i did football i did baseball i did tennis i did freaking you did everything yeah well you just named them all yeah yeah i mean i did i did quite a bit i wrestled a year um mainly because i did basketball really didn’t like the coach and just i’m like i freaking hate this guy so then i went and wrestled and coming into wrestling as a sophomore and we had a really good wrestling school too like both the guitars are from that’s right yeah you told me that yeah so like jason was my guard and and clay was um a little bit younger but you know we had a fired up was clay guido when he was 14 cause dude he’s 30 whatever right now he’s still fired up let me just tell you clay or uh well jason was jason was like on a clay level but like more like more of a gorilla you know clay gives jason a lot of credit for for being a savage and trust me he was um every game he like before every game he’d take a mouthpiece out of a packet and we’d put it on his helmet and then he was like my pulling guard and i remember like by fourth quarter i’d be like grabbing his mask i’d normally like grab his face mask to like call plays and i’d look and it would just be like the plastic piece like because he would chew he would just he would eat him like he would eat a full mouth piece and his eyeballs were like this big around wait this is jason or clay it’s jason yeah jason and i remember uh i remember one time like him and him and his brother lived in a a part of town that was like you know um i don’t know there’s a lot of savages over that way you know there’s like a lot of like wrestlers came from that group of town there’s a lot of badasses over there and i remember one time like jason came to practice and he was kind of pissed because he was like chainsawing something on his garage and the chainsaw kicked back and hit him in the top of the head and like chainsaw his head open and dude he just threw his football helmet on and freaking got after it dude like that right there i was just on uh on jordan jason and i wrestled the same the same weight class which was what i think 171 in our sophomore year but he was like way better i was just on jordan peterson’s podcast a little while ago and he was like talking to me and i was like talking about how like when you’re a young kid and it’s not everybody but you just want to like fight and go and that’s my picture when you picture him just gnawing apart his freaking mouthpiece and his eyes are all big this kid needs to go to combat somewhere like that’s what he’s meant to do and he did and he and he did so so you wrestled for what a year yeah wrestled for a year look i don’t care how good of an athlete you are you roll into wrestling and did you not just get like crushed oh yeah okay yeah yeah yeah you can’t catch up you know no i wrestled kids yeah i wrestled uh i wrestled jv and i mean they were that we were a wrestling school like you know we we had we had some really good wrestling coaches and yeah it was it was tough it was tough but i really i was still like getting into my body honestly because i stretched up so high and so i didn’t have a lot of coordination but i had work ethic you know that’s one of the things before like before i go down that route like with multi-sport thing with my son he did swimming after cross country and then when he got to soccer like he started the coach wasn’t playing him but at practice this this coach was taking weeks to try to condition the other player but harry would be out there just running circles around people because he just got off of cross country followed by swim season followed by now it’s soccer season you’re just running around out on some grass you know so he for him it was nothing and i i remember after like three or four games of watching the coach just bypass him i kind of pulled the coach to the side after practice and i said hey i said is there anything i should be working with harry on so he can get more game time and he just said well i don’t like single player you know he said i want soccer players harry’s too distracted with other sports and i was just like really you know i said i deal with a lot of coaches on pretty high levels and i said i’ve never known a coach to not want an athlete on the team i’m like this this kid’s an athlete an athlete as opposed to a sport specific one trick one trick pony yeah um and so yeah right then i just kind of told harry like i don’t think soccer’s your thing so he went into track and you know did cross-country track and swam four years even though he didn’t like it you know still did it and then you know ended up going to college to run and and still gets awesome grades and runs and does all that stuff and he’s kind of like like i was but a little bit later he’s like now getting into his into his body to where and he’s also hit a new gear of competitiveness which is really cool to see because i hit that way earlier you know i would get probably what held me back athletically is i would get really pissed off you know it’s like once i started to compete i hadn’t ever been taught the management of like you know raging out when you like made a bad play or through an interception or something and that that actually transpired all the way into my archery career and then luckily um an olympic coach like help that that was a big turning point in my career like in my 20s when i got taught like how to get you know how to not let the arrows in my quiver that haven’t been shot yet be affected by the ones that already have and that you can’t get back you know that’s kind of how it was put to me so that really helped but in high school i think by the time i hit you know junior and senior year i just started to i just started to feel way more confident in what i was doing and you know size wise you know i was a totally different person than what i was so what ended up being like the sport football for sure yeah football was was the sport and for me um i’ve always struggled with sleep you know i’ve always just you know been an insomniac and i also one of the things that kept me awake was knowing if someone else was like having more time to train than me so you know i was welcome to my world yeah so i was like in high school by my senior year you know i was like substituting any non-elective class that i had or all my study halls for like x or gym so i’d go to like four gym classes and then i had my my football coach gave me a key to the to the gymnasium so when i couldn’t sleep at night and my mom would be gone you know i was home i was home alone a lot you know i had my mom would just sign a checkbook for me to like order dominoes you know and whenever i woke up i’d go to the high school go in there and i had you know my coach gave me this huge bag of footballs when i was a sophomore and just said like these are yours until you graduate and so i’d just go to the gym and i’d pull the laundry baskets you know out of the locker rooms and i just throw you know from corner of the gym to corner of the gym i just run like three-step drills and just like run 73 passes into those or then into garbage cans or then eventually just like throwing into the basketball hoop and then just doing like three step drops five step drops seven step drops roll outs and just and then it got to the point where it’s like i memorized what i needed to do but then i memorized what the linemen need to do and then ever you know like every player on the field it’s like this is you know i knew the playbook front and back and how how good was your team sucked horrible how’d you guys do senior year horrible you know just really underperformed at all the camps we were awesome because at camps how should you have done i mean were you from like a week school a week football school from a good football school you guys were just playing shitty no you know it it’s kind of like um it’s kind of like when you i forget what podcast it was but or maybe it’s in your book when you were talking about um through buds they were the two teams with the two different boats you know i remember like one of the sayings my football coach always would have would he’d be like you know bring the boat in you know he always would say like the boat’s lost he’s like it’s your job to bring the boat in you know and he was like your job meaning you john dudley yeah because you’re the quarterback yeah i was responsible for every mistake we made you know if we screwed around and practice got shut off early he would he would like pull me back and tell me like you’re gonna run laps for every person here that’s screwed off today and today there was you know we freaking 46 minutes early we quit practice i want 40 46 laps you know it’d be like stuff like that but we had a small group of people for like seven on seven camps that were at all the they were at all the camps they i would call them and say let’s go practice but there was and we at seven on seven we were great but there was you know four other people that weren’t being included and then the entire defense so we were just we had really good pieces but nothing ever like flowed as a team did you did you do good enough did you get looked at by colleges yeah i think the first college i think the first college that looked at me was ball state when i was a sophomore i remember at the end of my sophomore year i went to ball state with my mom and that was like that little totally different fire because then i realized like you know i’m gonna i’m gonna go somewhere and so you know i my dad even though my parents were split my dad was at every freaking game and he was quite a ways you know he kind of moved to a different town but he came to every game and yeah i mean my life was was sport sport and training i mean i loved i loved lifting camps like in the summertime it was every football camp i could sign up for and honestly my mom’s like you know she was so you know involved with with her position at baxter to where she’s like yeah if you want to you know go somewhere for a month in the summer do it you know because i think she probably just you know was managing plants in puerto rico or singapore or wherever the heck you know she was for her job so um i just i did not miss an opportunity to like go to a camp or something like that so did you actually get recruited to go when in your senior year to go to college yeah there were several and i i ended up choosing um i wanted to go back my dad was moving back to north carolina my uncle was in north carolina and one of the coaches at western carolina played with my dad and you know we ended up going out there and it was kind of a decision that i would be close to to the dudley family out that way and i like the idea of like getting honestly i never really felt like that town was home you know and maybe it’s because like you know my parents were kind of always split i saw my mom limited you know when she wasn’t traveling but we like we traveled away from like me and my mom were together more when we’d go places because she’d say hey you know i’ve got a i’ve got a meeting in salt lake for two days do you want to come with me and i’d say oh can i go to i’ve been wanting to check out snowbird and she’s just like yeah you know so we’d fly out there and she’d say the bus will pick you up in the morning at seven and they’ll bring you back to you know just make sure you’re back here this time so i just go up and then i started you know skiing and shredding love skiing worked at a little ski hill up there and skied bumps like all the time in the in the winter time and it’s cool so then what happened with college then so i was going to play football and like the one thing that i haven’t talked about was back at age 10 when i was a super punk um my uncle and my grandfather got me into like hunting deer when we’d go down to mississippi we’d go back down there to see family for thanksgiving and so you know they were like you know we need to get you out in the woods and my grandpa’s all you know korean war veteran and he’s like you know we need to make a man of you because i’m showing up with freaking tony hawk haircut and freaking earrings and you know stuff like stuff like that so he’s out there you know making me sit and firing beds and you know just trying to like make a man out of this freaking softy that’s coming down and so you know i got into hunting and just loved it like it was and and honestly probably because it was hard and it like took a ton of patience and it was very different from being able to just screw off you know and and so it was it was the first kind of form of competition in a way just that it took a lot of moving parts to be successful so you know when i got my first deer it was like winning my first trophy right i mean i was totally hooked at how freaking awesome it was and just seeing my family like oh my gosh you got a deer and then we ate it and everything you know and it was just this thing so every year for thanksgiving i was looking forward to going back home and doing that and i got into bow hunting i think when i was the first year i hunted with they gave me i had a gun and then um when i was 10 is when i started shooting a bow and bow hunting so that was once a year that was happening but then i got a little bit better towards the end of my senior year i was shooting a lot more around home like i was practicing and stuff a lot because again i had a lot of free time you know my mom would be gone you had no homework yeah no homework if i wasn’t like cutting grass like you know for five bucks a lawn then that’s what i was doing but uh i ended up uh driving down this road i actually had hurt my knee so i was i was i moved into college a little bit early um and hurt my knee and then i forget what happened but i i was at home back by my mom’s for some reason i was just driving around on this like a back road and i think i was coming i think i went to college yeah i was i moved in i moved in and i’m talking like there a week maybe maybe a week and a half and you can on a weekend you hurt your knee at some point yeah and so you’re not really able to play yeah and so for whatever reason you go back home yeah we did some we did some like run-throughs i know i did some stuff with like you know i remember wearing like pants jersey helmet you know just doing like dry runs and stuff but i wasn’t i don’t i never like hit really hit helmets you know in college and so it was the weekend i went back and saw my mom and then i drove i think i went up to the ski hill just to you know go up there and say hi to some people that worked up in the summer and on my way back i took some back roads back home and i went by this little town called ringwood and i saw this sign on the on the side of the road that just said archery shoot like spray-painted on a board and just had an arrow like pointing that way so i went down that road and i’m like what’s this all about you know yeah i had my phone down this road yes you did yeah yes you did bro you went down the road and i said what’s this all about and they’re like oh we got a you know 40 target course and you know here’s how the scoring works on the animal you know it’s 3d animal targets i had never seen 3d animal targets i’d always like shot at bales of hay and stuff like that so i went out and freaking halfway through the course i was out of arrows i had freaking shot the woods down and i remember leaving the course got in my car went back up to wilmot wisconsin which was where the ski hill was but there’s also a ganner mountain outlet store there went in and bought more arrows like in a rage and went back to finish the because i didn’t want to not finish the course so i bought more arrows to go back to finish by the time i like finished everything was pretty much done and they were having the award ceremony and the guys that were up on that podium all had these shirts that had like their local shop on the shirt so i remember this was on a sunday and on monday morning like when they i think they opened at one o’clock but at one o’clock i was at that shop just like when are those guys coming in that you know won this weekend and i just started standing there and watching these people shoot and ask questions and i was there a few days just kind of being a stalker and and the owner of the archery shop uh called me to the side said hey kid what are you what are you doing i said i’m just i’m watching i’m watching and he said well come in the back room i need you for a minute he took me in the back room and he said i forgot to get this guy’s arrows done he goes have you ever built arrows and i said no sir and he goes okay well here’s how you do it and he said you know you’re going to clean this feather like this then you’re going to put the glue on it you put it in this clamp and then you stick it down and he’s like you know set this timer and then move on to this next jig and do a second arrow and then when you get to the six you can go back to the first if the timer’s gone off you rotate it and so i just sat in this room and fletched this guy’s arrows and then kind of came out and i said like i got him you know so he came out and gave the guy his arrows and um the guy just said all right do those ones and he had just this buckets of arrows that needed to get done so i just started fletching arrows and then the next day’s like have you ever worked on a bow and i said no i haven’t he’s like all right well let me show you how to change a string and you know and then he’s like hey if you know if they’re if these bows are here for maintenance you know here’s the checklist you gotta you know clean these axles you gotta wax a string and melt it in with this and just started showing me and honestly after probably two weeks of doing that um i i ended up telling the guy i said hey am i gonna get a paycheck and he’s just like i remember the guy’s name was mike donovan some people in the archery industry like old timers they still remember him because he was he was a pretty hardcore uh archery manager at the time but he goes you can’t put value on what i’m teaching you right now i remember i’m like no sir you can’t but i can’t put gas in my tank you know with experience so he uh he’s like i’ll give you 410 an hour and i’m just like oh yeah you know i was freaking pumped and i remember going home to my dad and i went to my dad to north carolina well my dad at that time i think was yeah he was still in rockford illinois and i remember telling my dad um hey i’m not going to go to college to play ball because i’m you know i’ve got this archery thing going and it’s it’s a good it’s good he’s like you’re like dad four ten an hour i did he because i remember you know again he’s always been super logical and he’s also like tried to not he never really told me like at that point he had never said like what’s wrong with you or you know that’s a terrible decision but in that instance he’s like i i really feel like you need to make your own decisions and you need to know like what to do he said but i have to say i think this is a terrible decision and uh i think for my 40th birthday he wrote me this really long birthday card and like in there he said he’s like you could have not done a better job of proving me wrong because he’s like he goes he goes i can’t believe i can’t believe what you’ve done in like 22 years type thing you know hey what when you went to that uh 3d shoot for the first time on the on the side of the road or whatever what do you think it what feeling did you have what was it that just freaking was like this is it i uh yeah like i listened to ted nugent on rogan and like he gives some crazy description of like launching an arrow it’s all poetic and everything yeah is that what you you were just like no never had that for me it was i couldn’t like the fact that i knew it that was a that showed me how inferior i was with a bow and arrow and i loved hunting and it showed me that there was every person that was in that parking lot was a lot better than me and that was a problem and and that a hundred percent was you know i had to go to the shop i had to learn and then it’s like i’m not gonna leave until i beat these guys these guys that are winning like i need to beat them and then once i did that it was you know i remember i did really well did well fast and i remember going to a shoot that was about 45 minutes away to the north and i remember going in there and my name was like written down on a piece of paper that was like at this registration desk and these are rinky-dink like local shoots you know i don’t know if like you have like local surf tournaments where it’s not like yeah you know so i just said oh what’s up with that name you got right there and they’re like oh uh this guy is supposed to be a serious cheater so when he comes we’re gonna send someone out with him and i go oh well that’s me who’s coming and wait so they were thinking this because you had been doing well in the yeah because i kind of came from nowhere so these these people that that was their thing um they’re just like where did this guy come from who who even is he you know they’ve never seen me even at a local club you know because i was just nothing and then went as i always do you know oh i’m not good at this then just like head first into the deep end like were you shooting arrows at night waking up in the morning shooting arrows like you just full on full-on obsession immediately yeah yeah like you know had to like sat around after tournaments and would like take down courses for places if they’d give me a target so i’d have another target you know or you know i would freaking cut grass or clean the bottoms of people’s boats or whatever so i could buy another target and then you know i had to have an entire range to practice on and then it just you know and then i wanted like a colored target bow and then it just it’s just like it’s me it’s just me it’s who i am all the time i just you know i had to like i had to get good at it but then there came a point where um and actually at that tournament was kind of a turning point because this is the cheater one yeah so i went out did i ended up winning that tournament and they had someone like writing score and i said um i go well that was kind of nice just having someone else keep score i’m like hopefully keep score for these other guys that have a problem you know because it’s called like pencil pushing you know and they just said well if you don’t want to deal with that you could always go to nationals where there’s two score keepers and so i’m just like where’s that so then i went to the national triple crown and slept in the back of my truck and you know shot at that and sucked at it horribly but then the next year you know i instead of going like two i went to all of them drove to all of them and just got better and got better and then within like five years i was at a level that was you know that i was happy with but i was also still refining it you know just there’s that’s what’s cool about archery is i think the reason i’m still doing it is because you know i still find if i’m not centered then it shows so it’s hard like you’re never going to have a perfect game to where you could just back away and know that like okay that was a cinderella story i’ve done because you can go have a perfect round but then an hour later you gotta shoot another one yeah yep yep how do you cheat in archery well i mean there’s just there’s groups where you know if at like a local tournament they’re not going to send a scorekeeper out so let’s just say like we all went out with our wife there’s definitely people that you know they would shoot down there and score like an eight but they’d just like ride a ten meanwhile like the wives and kids are just like not giving a crap about what’s going on but then you just turn in your scorecard and you know this but once you get into like the professional events there’s two people that keep score the majority of the group has to agree on the arrow call and then if there’s ever a divide then you call an official scorekeeper to come and call it which is kind of a big reason why i liked progressing because once i was shooting like internationally you know they had like you couldn’t even have an arrow judge that was from your country so if you you know it’s like if an american needed an arrow call someone would come over like an official judge from another country would come over because obviously now there’s teams competing against teams so you know these judges had schooling on how to call an arrow and you know stuff like that so how does that go like you know i enter the tournament and then what i just shoot them at my own pace kind of thing and keep my own score i think what’s good what might be confusing you echo is like the first tournaments that he’s talking about are just like kind of like local it’d be like you’re going to fail it’s like going to like a little jiu jitsu tournament somewhere and there’s not like judges you know what i’m saying we’re a jiu-jitsu tournament like an in-house jiu-jitsu tournament like when you have like at victor you have an in-house jiu jitsu tournament there’s no like escalating the called or that the point keep you know you’re like hey man you lost whatever you did good someone could be like oh yeah no you’re not getting points on that sweep so these are just like local little tournaments where you go out and you score and you’re like you know my my eight’s pretty close to a ten and i’m going to give it to myself so there’s no one watching yeah because it’s just you just because you’re like on a path through like through this course to where it’s not like golf like professional golf there’d be like a crowd following like those leaders through that course which in professional archery like that happens um and then once you get into shooting in the finals a lot of times it’s like on monitors and everything so obviously people can see on a big screen where the arrows are landing so i mean probably the same in competitive like rifle and stuff like that yeah it’s the same in competitive anything like really like when you’re at a local tournament or whether it’s freaking bowling you know like over the line you know market zero they’re just having an argument you know it’s like you can cheat and then but then you turn in like a score card or something so when you shoot you you score however many points you and then you write it on the card and then you know what to the next target or yeah and then you go through a course yeah and at the end you turn in the card yeah it’d be like you playing cribbage with someone at home and then also you’re like oh i won they’re like well wait a minute i dude we have to be at least even you’re like no i was keeping score like here’s how it looked or you go to vegas and play cribbage and like it you know everything you’re doing is under you know a magnifying glass type thing so what point did you make the transition or was it the whole time from like 3d archery to target archery um i got i honestly got a little bit bored in 3d archery pretty fast and part of the part of what i didn’t like about it there was just i felt like i was going to the same places all the time because there was i’m trying to think i turned pro in 98 so by like 2003 i just felt like i would land know how to get to the shoot without even like wouldn’t even need to like look at a map i’d just know where to go and then you go to these courses and it would be like well a lot like you know we shot big sky together you know for the total archery challenge and we’ve shot the same course because it ends in a good place you know um but there’s certainly targets that you like you would be like oh last year we had the white bunny right here you know and so it got to the point where it was like that i was going to places where i’m you know 26 or 30 weekends a year i’m traveling to to do tournaments and it just felt super repetitive and in the end i realized there’s probably 10 or 12 people that are fully capable of winning like any weekend but it’s almost like if you have that same tournament you know two consecutive days over and over and over again there’s probably like five that would win it differently each of those times and i don’t know it just came it it just got to be stale for me i got you know i just really got bored with that and it got to the point where i pretty much had it set in my mind of i’m a target archer to be a better bow hunter you know and that was like my mentality is i was just i could barely be focused by the time the world championships rolled around in august i barely cared because i just wanted to be hunting in september and you know that the hunting was always the focus for me and it was like i almost i got more out of it so you know i just eventually i did what i needed to do in competitive archery to like help me build a platform to where i really wanted to go which is i’ve always liked to to coach you know and and and i’ve always liked really good coaches you know i’ve liked i’m the type of person where i liked coaches that like honestly that like yelled at me and were like harry’s head coaches were you know sharon said that guy’s just a dick like i’d i kind of think i would love that guy you know if he like grabbed my face mask and he’s yelling at me like it would make me do better on the next play whereas now as an adult i’ve learned there’s certain people where if you did that you’re not getting that result freaking breakdown yeah so so wait a second so you’re doing the target archer thing and then oh sorry you’re doing the 3d thing then you start doing target archery like and like at what point are you part of team usa and you’re putting on the team usa stuff dang man i don’t like have my whole life outlined so um i had retired i you know i got sick of it i retired and i was working at a bow manufacturer you know didn’t go back to that but at 18 um you know i started working for this archery shop didn’t like the one-on-one experience that that archery shop owner was giving people buying new equipment and i was spending a lot of time with people and so i got called in and he told me you know hey do not spend that much time with people when they buy new gear if they go over 15 minutes they need to be paying coaching time per hour and i just said well this you know no one was in the shop and i didn’t have anything else to do why wouldn’t we help this guy out and i remember he said well if you want to run a business that way then you need to go start your own archery shop so i just thought oh okay and so i went and started my own archery shop um about 45 miles away that it was actually our my family had a had a horse ranch in southern wisconsin at the time my mom and my sister so i ended up building a pole building there and starting my own shop and that was the same time i started shooting professionally and then got offered a job from a bow manufacturer to move to northern wisconsin to you know come in as like an early sales rep so i ended up working for this bow company and competing so i mean my life was archery 20 hour archery 20 hours a day and then i kind of got burned out with it and i found myself liking going fishing or going hunting or just doing something that wasn’t like training training training for archery and then um i had retired for like a few months retired from i kind of just said i’m not gonna shoot professionally anymore and i just stepped away and i was doing some coaching at like i was doing a lot for some different like youth camps and stuff and i remember seeing another archer at like at a trade show and he’s and he said something about you know i heard you’re not shooting anymore and i just said yeah i got you know bored with it and i kind of just jokingly said you know maybe i’ll come over to target archery because 3d archery is all like foam animal targets with molded in scoring rings um ranging from you know the size of a dime you know up to like what would be considered just the vitals which would be bigger but then target like a dinner plate size yeah but then for target archery there’s several different formats and that’s bull’s-eyes you know with scoring rings but a lot of different games to play right you know there’s tons of different formats of shooting at a bullseye target different distances some you don’t know the distance you have to estimate it some have like multiple size faces some are certain amount of arrows at this distance certain amount of that distance that distance but anyway i i said to this guy um yeah maybe i’ll just i don’t know maybe i should just try target archery and i remember um he looked at me goes come on in the water’s fine oh famous last words and that was it i was like okay when’s the first tournament and the first he told me the first tournament was um at the arizona cup in uh at the ben avery did you ever shoot at the ben avery center in arizona uh so that was the first one and ended up you know ended up in the metal you know gold medal match with that guy at that event with that guy with that guy in your first event yeah that one and i showed up like everything i had was wrong because you know there’s i don’t know how to describe it it’d be like if you did you know tactic you know tactical competition and then someone asked you to go to a sniper event and then you like showed up with your m4 or something you know i don’t know it’s it’s mission specific yeah they’re both archery but one of them has like you’re standing around you got more time to shoot or whatever less time to shoot your gear is going to be different the whole nine yards yeah so i remember uh right before that metal match and as it happened i was low in the brackets he was you know very high in the brackets but we were on opposite ends of the brackets and so at this center you know there’s uh you know it’s let’s say it’s a hundred yards wide i was like at this end and he was at that end and as you shoot against someone and go through the brackets you just come to the middle so like when i won my semifinal match i remember like looking over and i see you know i saw that he won and i’m like okay here we go and he comes over and he said man he’s like how i see he said how are you dealing with it and i said dealing with what and he said well i’ve won this nine times and you know everyone wants me to lose and he said so i can imagine like you know the pressure you’re feeling you know being that guy and i said man i see it the other way and he goes what do you mean i said dude i’m out here my equipment’s a joke i said i’m out here i’m a 3d shooter i got the wrong freaking bow i got the wrong arrows never even shot this far and i said and i’m getting ready to roll up on you and i said and i’m like you won this nine times and honestly i could see like that was you know that cracked and i ended up getting the gold medal there oh you so the first time you won it yeah that’s freaking nuts so then i guess that pretty much kicked off your target archery yeah yeah so we um there was a lot of like that kicked off my target archery so i did one type then i did another type and then i went into field archery which is my favorite it’s kind of like the tack but with with different size bullseyes and granted you know in the pro class these guys aren’t missing it’s like you need perfect scores you know you really do and i went to this field um this field tournament and just sucked at it because half of it is marked the other half is unmarked meaning unknown distance unknown distance which in archery is a problem if you don’t know the distance because your arrow is way slower than a bullet so um i wasn’t good at it and ended up buying myself an entire field round and like you know reading up on you know target faces and then ended up figuring out a mathematical formula to estimate distances using like the circles in my scope and the circles of the bullseye so i would like frame the side of my scope to the edge of the target and then i memorized where my center dot would be based on the rings and just memorize a gauging distance gauging formula which is what everybody does but most people keep it secretive on how you know what their system is but because the targets are all regulation they have to be the same size you can figure it out so then um i got good at that you know and and that was kind of my favorite and then you know made made a team made a u s team and then went over and competed i think my first international tournament was in croatia and you know freaking just loved meddled there and you know loved freaking when they pulled that american flag up and like you got to hear your anthem it was just like okay this is freaking this is awesome yeah and so how long did that career run for that career ran until the archery world archery decided to do a world cup and they decided to make the world cup um so at the world cup i think only two at the year at the time it was maybe two or three archers you had to be on on a team um would shoot in the world cups but whoever the finalists the top four were at the end of the world cup then you had to go to the world cup finals which was like a big thing and they decided to add one tournament and move the world cup finals it was like september 15th this year and so i remember um world archery telling me you know hey if you’re going to shoot on the world cup team you have to give us the commitment that you will not only do all four world cups but if you make the world cup final that you also participate in the world cup final otherwise we’re going to find someone that will you know because we don’t want to like end up making a final and then someone don’t can’t get off work or whatever and so you know as in september i just said i am not competing in archery in september and for everyone that doesn’t know september is freaking prime that’s haunting season yeah that’s when you you’re only thinking about you’re thinking about one thing and one thing only yes just freaking hunting that’s it that’s it and so you kind of walked yeah i walked mm-hmm now and i walked for i walked from there and then you know i ended up business-wise uh started consulting went out on my own started consulting you know started a family sharon and i you know it was like i wanted to be home more a lot more people could come to me you know for coaching and stuff and i was i was coaching around the world at that time uh but yeah just you know life changes you become 30 you know close to 30 it’s just you know i didn’t i just didn’t see the future that i wanted just being a target archer my whole life you know and i think you know we talked about this i think some fighters are in that same position of like yeah you love it and you know you can go win like fight of the night and you could make a pretty good paycheck for that time but the reality is like you’re one or two fights a year that you’re gonna make a paycheck at they’re gonna make 98 of the rest of your life not as you know not what you could make for it if you had a different focus so you know i just i just focused on something else now from a business perspective did you have the vision of like knock on archery because essentially what you do is freaking give away an incredible amount of knowledge and information and instruction that’s what you do that did you know from the beginning hey listen if i just give this stuff away then people will you know want to buy some of the stuff that i recommend utilize some of the equipment that i make is that did you have that vision or did it just start to happen it’s hard to say if i was in a different position then if i would have felt that way because i don’t feel like i’m greedy i feel like the better i do for myself in other avenues of life the more i can give back to my sport and i want to because you know i feel like hey i’m doing fine and you know and i want to help other people be better but the truth of the matter is you know when you’re in your 20s making 30 grand a year or 50 grand a year at your job and you’re trying to go to tournaments to win an extra 10 on the weekend and you’re just putting a lot of time in and you’re shooting 20 to 30 000 arrows you know a year and living out you know sharing rooms with people and stuff like that like there’s a lot of stepping stones that have to there’s a lot of sacrifices you make before it gets to the point where it’s like you know you could offer all that for free but once once the community and i and by that i mean you know i refer to them as the knock on nation once once we had a pedestal to where we were able to to deliver out information and our community came in and started supporting that initiative then it allows me you know the more people support like either things that we offer at the store or let’s say i do a training series and there’s a training series that helps someone do better but maybe there’s a product that we have as our business you know that’ll be in there and i know not everyone’s going to buy it but if someone does you know if they really like that series and it was worth you know 100 bucks to them i would rather instead of them paying a subscription to like support us with you know a product that we have that i that i personally believe in for that particular thing now everyone has their has their preference but i don’t think i could have done it that way to begin with even though when i was kind of hustling and doing what i could to like you know build i would always go and do youth camps or go do christian camps and do stuff like that for free like i always did that i always worked with you know the kids after the tournament or um you know it kind of got to the point where i told sponsors especially when i went out and i was kind of consulting i told sponsors i would like to travel through europe and go to every archery club and do a seminar but you know i can’t pay for it myself would you you know would you like to be the one that sponsors the event in dusseldorf you know and if so send me 25 of your hats and some key chains or whatever and that’s what we’ll put on everyone’s seat that you know that comes and so we just do these tours where i’d have magazine editors drive me all around europe and every day was a different stop you know just kind of like a band every day was a different archery club stop teach archery and then you know do it in the end i made something more because you know the sponsors were paying something and you know getting some exposure from it and then i also did a lot of writing you know i did a lot of a lot of written coaching first because like getting your foot in the door when you don’t technically have like a name for yourself yet is a little bit of a struggle but i saw a lot of magazines needing fresh content and so you know i just started writing so from like 2 000 i would say from 2005 to probably 2 000 or 14 i was i wrote for like seven different languages i’d probably do about 250 pages a year just in articles and honestly my thing was i’d send these articles out i didn’t really make hardly anything off any of the articles i just always made sure that they used my photo content so that you know i was able to give exposure to the brands that i represented and so you know just it’s kind of like the perfect storm of having enough support to where i could grow into where i wanted to be and then you know then eventually like knock on knock-ons like evolved originally it was a tv show it was just a hunting show but it was a hunting show that i was very focused on having educational portions i didn’t like b-roll in hunting shows you know i didn’t i always thought there needs to be more education and how to and why was this hunt successful or here’s the equipment that i’m taking on this hunt you know i changed arrows or changed broadheads here’s the why you know here’s different mistakes you can make as a bowhunter for shooting technique so that was that kind of gave us the platform to to create a name for ourself and then obviously you know we’ve just continually built we meaning i’ve only ever done the content the brand was always sharing you know the brand and you know knock on archery com has always been sharon um whereas you know i really don’t like that side of things i just really want to like i want to teach people from my experience of of whatever’s happening at the moment how’d the tv show come about the tv show came because one of the companies that i worked for was an archery company and so each year they would pick a certain demographic and tell me to focus my initiatives there to grow the brand and that demographic so one time it was you know south africa another time it was like germany another time it was australia but it came around to canada and so i went up and talked to a lot of shops up there and said you know hey what do you guys think about doing like a seminar tour like what was working for me and other demographics because over there people were jumping on that because no one would travel over there to do that maybe it’s like that with jiu jitsu if a if a reputable coach travels to somewhere where they’re never going to see that person they it’ll sell out you know for sure versus in canada they said at the time canada just got their first outdoor tv network which was called wild tv and they had hunting shows but most of their shows were shows that we had watched here five ten years ago and it was just all the shows domestically were sending all their repeats up there and just like you know just kind of rebranding but then also like selling that air time to their sponsors here like yeah we’re also airing you know 10 times a week in canada for this or that so when i was up there the shop said well i mean we would love to get like super technical seminars but what brings people in the doors when the hunting shows come like if if you’re on a hunting show there if you’re on wild tv we’ll freaking pack the store so i remember going back to my boss at the time who actually works for us now and i told him i said well they really said to get the foot in the door like we need to be i need to be a show and i had already done dvds that were like you know kind of out of the trunk of your car dvds that i thought were a little bit of ahead of their time because i always said that like i wanted our hunting show to be like hunting kind of crashed with mtv cribs crashed with like rob and big and so like our first dvds that’s what they were and so they were to like way faster paced music and like way different editing than kind of like the banjo music do you put those on youtube i haven’t i need to get you one of those dvds how come you don’t put them on youtube on your youtube channel people are going to be amped to watch them now maybe they i mean looking back it’d be like you watching yourself on video 10 years ago you’d be like man was i horrible well you at least got to have some fun with it before tomorrow oh yeah i mean like that haircut you posted prince valentine that was freaking awesome bro it was 1977 that was what was happening and i didn’t i don’t think i even had i don’t think i didn’t even think i thought you know what i’m saying i didn’t think i thought about like a haircut i think it was just you know my mom would come in with a pair of scissors you know done like i wasn’t like do i need here for a minute yeah do i need to get a haircut do i not need you she’s just like that’s it was like that’s what’s happening right you don’t have any choice in the matter and didn’t care about it one way that i still barely care i feel like when we post this podcast we need to put a thing in there that says like unless you’re a dork about archery fast forward to like the hair moment because like me talking about my past to me seems like i don’t know i’d way rather what i remember about you the most is like how hard we laugh at stuff and you know it’s such a different side than you know kind of like at the beginning of the thing when you’re reading you’re so serious and awesome at that like you’re the you’re the perfect person to like do voice over work but i also know like at any given second if it was just the two of us you could drop a one-liner in there that would freaking bust people up in here yeah i definitely i mean that’s bro yeah you’re right any of this stuff it’s like you’re having fun while you’re doing it if it’s not fun to do then why are you doing it yeah i will say though like i like to have fun you like to have fun but man it’s legit when you go into like kill mode on a hunt it’s freaking like i’m like oh yeah here it is you because you go into just like boom like i could i just see i’m like okay i gotta hang on because he’s freaking he’s going and it’s it’s legit man well i think that same thing that’s just inside it’s dormant and i’m pretty i’m pretty like low-key in docile most of the time um i feel like that’s how i am naturally but then like certain things like that when that moment triggers and it’s like a game face that’s kind of what happened when i recognized like i wasn’t good at archery you know i realized like you know i just it’s like hyper focused um and it gets that way with my training too if i know i’m not up to par i get very hyper focused on on just getting better and and training and i can kind of just go over the deep you know i can either be all in or or totally out which is kind of like from a target archery point of view people ask me why i don’t compete i don’t have like i don’t have a drive to compete that’s not to say if for some reason i you know did it accidentally and i wouldn’t get fired up again like oh no i didn’t do that i’ve seen you do that where we’re walking down the tack and all of a sudden someone’s like hey dud i bet i can do this i bet i can hit that you’re like same thing i’ll see your face and i’m like oh he’s about to just 12 ring this thing you know because you get in that competitive mode that happens you know what i wanted to come back to and and hey the reason why i think this stuff is interesting look i don’t think you have to be interested in archery because you your your path in life was not normal right and people look you could have been talking about someone that was into spearfishing or someone that was in a jiu jitsu or someone that was into anything to go down the path like you did and forge your own way ahead and make a life for yourself based on doing something that you loved people could apply that in any category whether you’re into knitting or whether you’re into freaking uh bowling it doesn’t matter so yeah there’s some real application i guess i should have said that at the beginning hey if you’re thinking about the way your life looks especially if you’re 20 years old or 25 years old and you’re kind of like well i’m doing this but i don’t like it i mean here you are like going to college but i don’t really want to do that you know yeah hey and you’ve done that multiple times 3d archery i’m totally into it oh guess what i’m not really into that that much into it anymore okay i’m going to do something else go to target archery okay i’m really into that for a while guess what it’s interfering with my hunting not going to do that anymore now i’m going to focus on hunting i’m going to focus on building this brand i’m going to focus on creating new products so all that stuff it may seem mundane to you looking back at it but for a normal person that can take this and apply it to you know uh building something creating something it’s like you’ve done well not just from an archery perspective but a business perspective in in at the same time so it’s real lessons one of the lessons i wanted to come back to because we kind of drifted over it but when you were talking about as somewhere along the way you realize that you could like freaking rage doesn’t help right rage doesn’t help and you said you had a coach that was like hey listen the arrows that you shot and this is such an important this again this is a life lesson and there’s all kinds of things that tie into life and archery but the life lesson is like hey you shot that arrow and you freaking shanked it right you can blow your next eight arrows like you can just send them all out the freaking you know into a tree somewhere or you can just be like okay that didn’t doesn’t matter can’t change it move forward what was that lesson like who taught it to you um an olympic arch an olympic archery coach who i’m pretty sure was also a marine i mean like you know straight-up marine haircut all the time but he coached a couple uh a couple like super high level uh archers but he was also like he didn’t coach very many people and he was also you know very i don’t know he was he was very like stone you know so you knew if he was there he was there watching his few athletes and they like would pay for him to come and stuff like that but i remember one time i was in a leading group you got peer grouped and then the second day your you know like ranks one two three and four are together on the target you know when they shoot through and then it kind of came down to the last target and you know i needed a 12 or something to make it into the shootoff you know into the top six and uh and i missed you know and i was freaking pissed about you know like broke my stabilizer over my knee and freaking hammer tossed my boat through the woods type thing and you know ended up coming back like with my bow just kind of seeing the damage i did and and he came over to me his name was tim strickland and he said you know you could be an amazing archer but he said until you start not letting the arrow that you shoot affect the ones that are still in your quiver you never will and he said he goes do you know a way to get an arrow back once it’s left your bow and i said what do you mean he goes do you know a way to get it back other than to physically go down there and pull it out of the target like he just did and i said no sir and he said well once it’s gone it’s gone and he said so if you make one mistake don’t make the same mistake for every arrow that’s left in your quiver you know make one pull it you know pull that arrow out throw it away whatever you want but there’s other arrows in the quiver that are capable of doing what you want them to do and so there’s been tournaments where i’ve you know i’ve actually talked you know where i will freaking make a bad shot and then just look down on my quiver and be like do any sons of [ __ ] want to go in the ten ring because that guy didn’t and you know and it was just like a totally different approach and mentally it’s you know i’ve i’ve totally it it honestly helped me this was a it’s kind of a weird thing to say but um you know he told me said you won’t figure out how to win until you learn how to lose and that was a you know i was like the rage of losing was overpowering my ability to perform at my best because i was letting you know i was letting those things happen and then i remember kind of wanting to get into that a little more and i read some kind of a sports psychology book you know i don’t know what it was called but it said something in there that this sports psychologist had talked to like he worked with a lot of high level pitchers and he told them that part of their success was that they had to be able to accept that there was going to be an umpire that would they needed to expect two to three bad calls by the umpire every game and when they got a call that they didn’t think was right they could just check it off the list of okay well there was one of them and so i started doing that too and started saying okay when i go to an international event because there certainly are judges that call them really really tight you know and they’re all looking at them with a magnifying glass but there’s some like when you’ll say like judge and then you know some dude comes over that is notorious like if the you know when they do their random thing of like judge so and so go pull it and then you see him you’re like it’s out because some of you just think like they think like if if they can’t figure it out themselves i’m just gonna go over there and look around at it but i’m calling it out you know and then there’d be some like oh yeah i got a chance with this gal like you know hey susie how you doing today but uh yeah learning that you know learning learning how to lose because i’ve lost way more than i’ve won and that you know and that that’s a that’s a fact if you know i you have to figure out a way to win in life you know you do have to figure out a way to win but if you deal with like being hyper competitive then you also have to learn how to lose otherwise you freaking derail yourself way more than others can derail you and i’m convinced that i beat myself way more than other people beat me and and most of the things that i’ve lost at you know it’s like which is why now my coaching has evolved so much because now my coaching is so focused on you know what you execute within your box because i kind of got to the point where i recognized if i make a good shot it’s a 10 that’s the highest score on the paper so if i do that all day no one’s going to beat me we’re tied at the end and if i just keep doing that until tomorrow then guess what worst case scenario me and that other guy are still tied but if i shoot nines then yeah the other guy is already at an advantage so you know if i focus on just execution and so once i kind of came to that realization of no one can beat me if i’m executing if i make a good shot right here i don’t need to see where it lands because if my sight tapes right and i trust the equipment that i’ve got i know it’s in the middle like i know that but i have to execute here and so it really got to the point where i like i took away my spotting scope to where i wasn’t getting in the habit of shooting an arrow looking for the result shooting an arrow looking a result which is something that even today when i work with parents i tell them that there’s there’s like parents that at an archery tournament they sit like front row with a spotting scope so the kid will shoot and then they’ll be like at 11 o’clock and then you know and the kid will shoot and just turn around to like dad to get confirmation of like how that was and so part of the things when you have that type of parent is telling them like listen this kid like they need to execute them looking for at you for you know the result all the time it it just athletes start to lean on their coach so much and that was actually one of the problems with some of the people that had that coach that i talked about they only did really well when he could be there with him because you know he’d be like all right hey you missed that one f those guys you know you’re good you’re the freaking you know and they had to have that that that continual like affirmation whereas honestly from my life i feel like most of it i was alone you know in regards to like i like training alone you know honestly i like archery too because it’s a singular sport so if i train and if i prep then i’m ready and it’s in my hands same with hunting you know same way with hunting if i you know i’ve had hunts where i’ve had a lot of distractions and i threw my stuff in a case that you know the day before and went and you know missed a couple shots and was just like enraged but then i also thought like yeah dude you didn’t prep you did no homework you know that’s what happens so i feel like because i’ve had to train that way and even even when i lift you know i love lifting by myself versus like going to somewhere where people distract me i just feel like you know i’ve i know that if i put in the work then at that point it’s it’s really on me not on someone else and like when i told you we sucked at football you know there was a couple people like you know like jason who knew their role and knew their position and other people’s position and they would cover for people that maybe didn’t do something right but there’s also three cores of the team that didn’t so in high school what’s hard is i don’t feel like anyone really prepped as hard as me in that because i honestly like put no effort anywhere else you know whereas they probably had lives and maybe you know actually got good grades and stuff but i think that’s why archery’s been so awesome to me is because you know the harder i’ve pushed the harder i’ve pushed at it and the more i’ve put into it like it’s not like weight lifting where you plateau i haven’t found a plateau yet like i can make a target further and i can suck again or you know you know there’s just or i can try a different species or a different you know climate or a different time of year and it’s a whole new challenge like it’s a clean slate and then you’re you know trying to formulate a plan and map out a plan of how do i you know how do i like win this challenge i i i was at uh you and i were at tac the first time we did tech and like i was like feeling pretty good and i’m like you know you’re like bro you’re freaking this is awesome you’re doing great and we’re getting through the course a little bit and then man then i just i i like hit a branch right and it was a little situation where you said step back and you meant back behind me but i thought you meant back away from the target and so i like didn’t it even makes sense to me what you said so i didn’t listen to you which is a mistake so i just cracked off this around and this thing just freaking just banged into a tree in in everyone on that mountain everyone like it sounded like you hit someone’s like door with a mac like with the microphone on the back side and and this is what i saw earlier you know you’re saying like hey you know what somebody grabs me by the face mask and just like are you going to get this [ __ ] together right now like that’s what you want and then but like i’ve i’ve done that like when i was in the when i was in the seal teams and i was teaching like i would be you know i’d have some guy that i’d be like hey man if i freak out on this guy he’s gonna freak out and he’s gonna collapse and break down mentally and i got someone else where is like if i don’t get their attention you know some guy might pull aside and say hey listen man think about what’s going on another guy may be like hey you need to think about what’s going on and you got to figure out what methodology you’re going to use yeah so what’s what what’s interesting for me is when you’re coaching me like i know what you’re doing i know that i go oh he he’s trying to get me to chill out because like on that one you were like you’re like hey man hit you hit that limb up there you know it’s just trying to say but you know you said you know knock another one knock take a step back knock another one i was like cool and i was like he’s just trying to get me to chill out so i don’t freak out because i just freaking t-boned a tree and and like i know what you’re doing but as echo charles says sometimes to me he knows what i’m doing when i’m talking to him about stuff he’s like i know what you’re doing guess what still works yeah it still works to be like hey here’s what’s going on man just just back off a little bit or dude you’re freaking out you’re not you know how to do this like those kind of coach and also being like hey get over here like hey you need to move down like those kind of things are important so for you as a coach the way you read and i’ve watched now i’ve watched you coach a bunch but like attack you’ll sit there like we’ll sit there at a place at one of the targets and you’ll just like watch four or five groups shoot and so i just sit there and watch you coach them you know and i’ll listen to what you’re saying and you i can tell that you’re going you’re reading people you know and going oh this person needs confidence or this person needs to think through needs to slow things down or this person’s getting freaking all all target fixated at the last second and they’re cracking the round off so you’re reading them and then you’re applying the right coaching technique to what’s going on in their head and that’s freaking that’s just like that’s why honestly to me your whole life the number one thing for me when i look at you is like coach like that’s the the highest thing that i look at you i was like man that guy’s a look he’s a good archer he’s a good hunter he’s a badass athlete but man he’s a freaking dialed in coach it’s what i’m passionate about like especially you know with honestly rogan introducing me to andy like i think was really the thing that started everything down the path of now how many military guys that i’ve been able to get into and gals get into archery um and you know i love that because there’s so many things that are there and especially with team guys you know whether it’s you know whether it’s you know army or you know it it really doesn’t matter but if if if they’ve been some type of a team or like special forces they just you know they’re good students and they’re hyper critical of themselves now granted some of them are like i got this and yeah once they realized no i just made an ass on myself they’ll they’ll listen but even if they don’t listen right there by the next time they talk to you they’ve a hundred percent you know went crazy about trying to apply that you know ever the work ethic is very it’s like the perfect formula for a coach you know is is all those guys and every every one of them that i’ve introduced it to so far has needed has really needed archery as i don’t know like like you said it’s like a quiet it’s like a quiet form of what you used to do you know well what it is really to me it’s a new mission like you you spend your whole life with a mission with like something that you know that you’re focused on and then one day you wake up like you retire or you get out the mission’s gone like you can’t have it anymore and look you can try and hang on onto it you can try and freaking relive those things in your head but that’s not gonna be that’s not going to work out yeah because it’s not there anymore and that’s that’s a shitty reality to face like when i had to clea when my when i retired and then i went and cleaned out my cage and i spent most of my career within like a 300 yard radius like seal team one seal team three single team seven i was at steel team two in virginia beach for for a little while but most of it you could throw a football to everywhere i was so when i was 19 years old i was walking up the steps of seal team one fast forward 20 24 years and i’m 200 yards away not even i’m 100 yards away cleaning out my gear locker for the last time and it’s gone and all that my whole life what everything i cared about the only thing i ever knew is gone and look i look back at it if i can help out in any way and i go talk to the teams that’s cool but that’s not my mission anymore and so this happens to guys and and they get out and they don’t have a mission anymore so all of a sudden you go hey man here’s a freaking bow and arrow it’s a primitive tool that you use to hunt [ __ ] and you can get good at it and and the the the fundamentals are similar you know the fundamentals are similar and like when you taught me for the first time andy was sitting there translating he’s like hey what he means is frontside focus hey what he means is he’s easy you know uh just squeeze the trigger he was translating me for me military stuff and i was like oh god got it got it yeah and you know andy i mean andy’s a good example of him just being like oh cool i got a new mission now here’s what i can do and and look andy of course andy has a ton of other things going on in his life and he’s got freaking parachuting and uh jiu jitsu now he’s totally obsessed with jiu jitsu which is freaking awesome so so people find new missions but this is a good one it’s a good one because there’s so many similarities gear prep right when you’re in the seal teams you’re freaking obsessed with gear prep you’re figuring out well the best way to carry things the best way to do things and you’re like okay i want to be ready for this i want to be ready for this operation right i got to be in good physical shape i got to be able to like clear my mind when shit’s going sideways and be like all right what’s happening right now so all those things are are so similar and i know that you spent i guess was andy the first like vet that you worked with probably that i mean probably not i guess but yeah it was the first one where i was where i was mentally really ready for that i think i was on a different like pull position like i was at a different stage and it it honestly it meant more you know i was going to say with andy like andy what may have been different is that andy was like what is that saying about like when when the when the student is ready the master will appear like i i don’t know if you could have found someone that was more ready yeah to like pick up this stuff and start going you know and so that’s probably why it left an impression on you damn sure left an impression on andy because this this dude’s totally obsessed you know so and it’s awesome and you know what’s funny about it well andy’s freaking hilarious you want to like when you talk about like oh jocko you make some good one-liners hanging out like i can listen to andy just all day long and and what’s really funny to me is like how he the way he handles uh uh like mistakes is he just hammers himself he’s so freaking hilarious he leaves no room for someone to make fun of him because if you don’t if you don’t fire off within three seconds yeah yeah yeah he’s freaking classic classic yeah and that’s the kind of thing is when you know when when you go out it gives you a mission now you got your friends with you you know now you’re like okay cool now we’re and we’re doing things like what you do in the seal teams guess what if if andy and i are on a pistol range and we’re shooting together like he’s gonna be making fun of me right i’m gonna i’m gonna shank some round off or whatever need a mag change in the middle what i didn’t need or i’m gonna do something stupid yeah and he’s gonna it’s gonna it’s gonna be fun and you know what it’s gonna make me better yeah it’s going to make me better and that’s another thing i noticed at tac like the amount of vets that were up there yeah it’s freaking awesome it’s awesome and guys coming up to me and telling me like bro you know i started this i started this this is what i’m doing and these are guys that freaking you know two years ago whatever when they got out of the marine corps after six years or after eight years or after 18 years they didn’t have a mission anymore and now all of a sudden they’re freaking jocked up they got their gear on their showed me their freaking range finder and they’re pumped man they’re pumped yep and so the fact that you’ve sort of opened up this uh opportunity for so many guys to start going down the path it’s man it’s so beneficial to dudes yeah that’s freaking awesome and it’s there also comes a point in time where you wanna like i’m fortunate that i can pick and choose what i’m doing right now and so i really want to pick and choose things that’s rewarding to me and hopefully that’s not you know selfish but there’s also like i don’t know there’s there’s people that i work with where i know this person could live on this planet a lot longer because they have a new focus right now and you know and archery’s changed their life totally and what’s cool about it is you don’t have to be in like perfect physical shape too so i mean there’s times where people get into archery and they’re kind of a little bit lost you know maybe you know maybe they’re not as in shape as they were or whatever but that’s what’s cool about it is it’s not age specific and it’s you know if you can pull it back you can do it and i think the natural progression is you pull it back and you know maybe you’re not good and then you get a little better and then you know there’s a ton of people now that are just for a better food source alternative they’re open-minded hunting if it’s can you know in their minds fair chase which you know bow hunting you know kind of lowers that boundary for people to where they’re like okay if i’m going to put in all this work and do it i’m totally cool you know eating this thing or killing it or whatever but then once you take that step you realize oh this is a whole different kind of hard because now you’re dealing with in my opinion some of the animals are just so much smarter than other things you could roll up on a merc right i mean they’re they’re freaking keyed up you know because i remember uh andy and i were on something where it was it was it was a pretty tough like it was kind of a little bit of a miracle that we pulled off this stock and jack something i don’t know what it was but um i remember saying like you know doesn’t seem like it’d be that hard to kill a person and he’s just like dude because it is not this hard at all he’s like he goes all of us would be he’s like you know he’s like a lot of us would be you know at a totally different level if we had to learn this way first he’s like it he goes if if everyone had this background prior to going into the teams he’s like it would be it would be insane no it’d be very beneficial very beneficial there’s so many things that you’ve got to think about that are the exact same you know the well with elk the only thing that’s not the same with elk is smell like like although if you talk to some of the vietnam guys they’re like oh the vc or the nva would smell you yeah and so if you and they could smell that they could smell them too so maybe we need to just account for everything well now with dogs like what i told andy was i said listen you know if if i knew there was someone coming to jack me you know i would definitely have at least a dog you know i would definitely have dogs around because obviously dogs could smell too you know if you train them on something you know specific time type of gear or something like that it would be an advantage but i’ve actually talked to um well one of the guys that we’re with tonight he’s actually hooking me up with some of the guys that are going to do some of the training down in lanai for the sniper training um they’re doing a couple team things there and so he had asked me if i wanted to go down just to to teach some navigation of like instead of learning the long distance aspect to like make some competitions on the closest shot to where they you know to where i would assess their choice of that navigation and like what they could do different to where it’s like okay we know how you how far you can shoot something from now you know who can jack something at a yard or whatever you know yeah it’s uh it’s totally different to have to get within you know 50 yards or something that’s just freaking crazy yeah it’s it’s crazy to think that way whereas with a rifle you know you can be i mean at least 500 yards you can be 500 yards and be like you know we’re good i got this i was so we went surfing yesterday at least yeah we went surfing yesterday and uh i was just paused that bad well actually no i pause for a second to think to myself did he surf or not and the fact of the matter is you did surf you did surf you paddled on the waves you caught the waves and you stood up that’s why paul’s like wait did he surf yes you did you caught multiple waves you paddled into them yourself and then you stood up and rode the waves that’s what surfing is so you did we did surf yesterday and i know you’d only been one other time which was the last time you went was was a little bit more at the pier yeah it’s at the pier and it’s a it’s a much more forgivable sort of like easier step like we where yesterday that’s like you can’t push yourself into those waves you can’t touch the bottom and be like oh i got this you have to actually surf where we served yesterday you actually have to surf but when we were when we were going out we were with josh and i was sort of like you know i’m just going to let jock because like i i don’t wanna i didn’t wanna be telling you things and josh telling you things and you’re sitting there freaking got two people telling you [ __ ] to do and it’s just too much right yeah so i was just kind of do it i was just kind of going and but man as i was going down there was like before we even got in the water there was 97 things i wanted to tell you like hey man you got to watch out for this this thing over here this path over here you got to watch here’s the lineup here’s where the here’s where the uh the channels are like this is where you want to sit here’s what you want to watch like i had 97 before we even got in the water that’s before we got in the water and i’m not you know if you’re at a at a freaking black belt level in archery like i’m not that i’m not at that highest level of surfing and i was like man imagine how many things were going through your head as you’re watching me like a freaking monkey with a damn bow just thinking all right with a 50-foot surfboard yeah yeah i mean it was just like the amount of things that that that you don’t know about surfing the amount of things that i don’t know about archery and about hunting and about scent and about terrain and about the way the freaking animals react to this and different animals react a different way and there’s like so much to learn it’s freaking crazy yeah it’s crazy it’s hard as a coach because a lot of times you forget more than you like you don’t know what you should be talking about until you realize like oh oh yeah and you gave me like there were several of those yesterday yeah the worst one was what you told me when we were on the deck like watching we were like watching you’re like yeah i meant to tell you when you were like you see how all the waves are coming in right there like off that set like that’s why josh and i when we’re done we would go around those to like loop back and he’s like you know you just kept going straight back up the gut yeah and he’s like i was just waiting for that board to like freaking t-rex your face and meanwhile i’m like bro that would have been something like when we were standing up on the top looking down if you would have said like hey you see how all those waves break like this so when you get your set and you ride that out you know looping behind that so you’re not like freaking how is full blown like doing buds training them on their freaking head for freaking like eight minutes what happened to dudley oh he’s he’s in the impact zone just getting hammered but but you did get up like while we were surfing you know you did surf and and to me that’s a testament to you know like being athletic and be being able to actually you’re really your first day out to go paddle into waves and stand up that’s not easy to do now josh hall did make you a freaking basically an aircraft carrier it’s freaking massive yeah 6 and it’s like over four inches thick and 24 inches which anyone that’s a surfer is hearing these numbers going damn that is an actual aircraft but that’s what a perfect platform and plus your how much do you weigh 240 oh yeah like that’s a different level you need a big-ass board and it looks like echo charles yes sir what’s up with your surfing career uh minimal at best we’ll see how come i don’t know there’s no tangible reason i mean i guess if i search my soul you know i did bodyboarding sponging as it was sponsoring you know for the most of my adolescent life and then yeah how did you not how did you not like say oh wouldn’t it be cool to stand up on this thing and ride this wave and glide through the ocean yeah i don’t know it’s just one of those things you know like where i grew up on the south side of kauai they’re actually no they’re surfing but they i grew up at the beach like literally grew up at the beach and then again you’re saying this like this is some sort of a weird way that you wouldn’t be surfing but you’re like no no i grew up at the beach yeah exactly right but if you’re wrong if you understand the progression just naturally kind of growing up there you go you’re swimming you know in the baby pond at plato beach and then you’re like okay then you’re kind of body surfing a little bit then you’re boogie boarding bodyboarding sponging you know yeah and then yes exactly and then you start to go surf and and there’s a there’s a how should i say a geographical element to it as well you’re literally in the baby pond then you’re outside the baby pond and then the surfing waves and the surfing spots those are out so you always see the surfers but they’re way out so i get maybe i think when we started getting into football and stuff it’s like the beats started to be less and less and then we just never i don’t know i never did are you thinking if i can step in for a second yeah so like you’re gonna have to get out like you said it where you want to be is a little bit further out you know that’s where the good stuff is it’s best to crush an arm workout like 45 minutes before your first day yeah well that was interesting too so like we get in the water well i have been surfing before though right right yeah no but i’m i was like i’m talking to dud and i’m like bro i’ve been on hunts with him like i’m watching him move through the forest and he’s just like you know freaking 14 foot legs and he’s just stepping over like he’s stepping over small like yeah like small trees and stuff like this and i’m i’m like dude you know and then watching him shoot i watch him shoot a ton and then like hawk a football or whatever i’m like yeah this guy’s a great athlete and so i’m thinking we’re going surfing and i’m like okay you know he and i said man you’re gonna i was i told you this i go bro with your long arms you’re gonna just be like oh you and this big board you’re gonna be you’re gonna be like a freaking you know a cigarette boat just going through the water so we go in and i like i said i wasn’t doing any coaching i was just kind of leaving that josh and i get in the water and i start paddling out and then i look back because dud was going next and then josh was doing sort of like clean up right in case something went sideways while we were getting in so then i see doug like okay he’s good he’s in and then i start paddling and i’m not like racing but i’m just paddling out and then josh comes up next to me and i’m like oh that’s weird i wonder where dud is so i’m pat a little bit more and i look back so now it’s been like probably one minute and 30 seconds maybe i look back and as soon as i look back i see dud and he looks like he’s just like freaking got into a wrestling match with a bear like i’m like oh yeah cause here’s the thing and you brought this up to me a long time ago uh echo charles if you’re not used to it that’s like it if you’re not used to it it doesn’t matter look it matters and if you weren’t in good shape at all then it would really suck yeah but if you’re not used to that little particular muscle group and the technique because you’re in the water and there’s balance going on and yeah it’s a little bit yeah i mean i was laughing at myself because uh well first off i didn’t know like where we were going because we were we were going to be surfing sets right that were further out you know i don’t know where it was probably won’t say because i know you have your spots but so my first experience was we walked out from the pier and like where stuff was breaking right there that’s where i was surfing so when he kind of jumped off the rock and went out their ways and i was talking to josh and josh like yeah just get where you’re comfortable and launch out on your board you know wait you know wait for a smooth spot and jump out so when i did that by that point giaco was like 100 yards out so i thought like he’s where we where we’re going to be waiting for these waves so i just went like full sprint for like the first 30 seconds and then josh like as i’m like kind of starting to burn out you know that freaking josh just like strokes by and they’re just going and then jocko’s just looking back he’s like gotta go about 200 more yards and i was just thinking like and dude like for bro i was going into like i was i was saying this kind of stuff like bro you got to give me like two minutes of heart battery because he was kind of in the lineup like nothing started he was in the impact zone and all of a sudden there’s a lull and i’m like because now i’m rea now i put everything together in my mind and i’m thinking if this if this brother doesn’t get out there like now he’s going to be in here for a long time so i’m like you got to give me like two minutes give me like two minutes of work it was but see i love like i love that i love something that you know it’s just to me struggle gives you it like gives you a purpose you know today when we were waiting to come here i just sat out there and watched those things and i was like thinking about every mistake i made yesterday and how i would do it differently today paddling was one of them uh but like even yesterday chalk was like hey dude you know just hit the garage for your workout so i went down in there and it’s very different than mine you know so i’m kind of looking around looking at the you know the tools trying to figure out like what i can construct you know that day so i freaking you know hit his rings for a while and stuff and and uh did some kettle bells but then i also thought like you know a lot of it’s like freaking gorilla movements so yeah his wife and girls had some bands over on the side so after i you know slung some kettlebells around for a while i you know went and grabbed some bands and just did some like burnouts of you know shoulders and and you know freaking arms and stuff which i thought was a you know i worked out for an hour i was pretty happy with you know everything but like dude at like a hundred yards out freaking trying to paddle that aircraft carrier and he’s like 200 yards bro and you got it and i was just like oh my freaking triceps you know what he said to me later we got back he’s like he’s like yeah you know bro i mean i just realized for the first time that like when you see a surfer that guy’s in like better shape than a wrestler like he’s in sick you got to be in the sickest shape because that’s how hard it was in a way but also not a way let’s face it you can be like a fat old dude that surfs yeah like i’ll take you to yeah they’re just used to it and they got good technique and they just go out there and they don’t even you know they don’t even freaking try and they’re out it’s like when i give a bodybuilder you know a bow and watch them like struggle to get it back and you’re like dude this is a 70 pound dumbbell row right now yeah and you can’t do it you know and then because yeah what is that is that that they don’t have like the the little stabilizer muscles or something it’s no it’s just like it’s just the understanding of like the technique of like where you’re pushing and pulling and like the leverage of it it’d be like you know it’d be just like walking up and even if a big dude you said like you know hey do a cleaning jerk and you just like put 200 pounds on there you i mean it’s just going to be a training right they don’t have the technique whereas you get a little female that knows how to do a cleaning jerk yeah she’ll take that 200 and throw it up like it’s nothing oh we talked about that on the maze today yeah about that what the swinging yeah the big mace yeah that uh first surfing yeah you’re right like actually you don’t have to be in that good shape you just have to be used to because it’s so repetitive like just paddling is so repetitive it’s like not knowing how to swim honestly like on that board uh i just felt like you know the first time even if someone knows how to swim you throw them in the water if they don’t know like stroke and like how to block and breathe and you’re like taking on water in your mouth and you’re like trying to blow that out and yeah you know you’re freaking sprinting when there’s waves up like and it was like simple stuff you know i got my first ride in i think i was on my like i went up to one knee yeah one then he got up to one foot for a little bit and then like as i’m going back out i’m just you know taking freaking taking him on taking the straight line straight out and i did that a couple times and then i’m out there with josh and jocko had rode one in i’m out there with josh and a couple like a big set came that were crashing kind of further out and like as we’re going up he knew it was gonna like crash and he goes he goes bro when you go up he goes do a push-up on your board right as you’re hitting the right as you’re hitting you know whatever he called it you know the flake or the white water yeah he’s like you know do a push-up on your board and then it drives the nose down then you can just ride the back and i like i freaking went up this thing and i’m just like and rode down and i’m just like now you tell me dude i freaking was taking like full endos just freaking one after another in the in the freaking mortar zone just taking heavy artillery jocko and josh are just out there like watching me just like you know he’ll be back he’ll be back out here at 15 or whatever there’s a lot of technique man then he told me the you know the button hook method the channels yeah like the channel we got all the way out and climbed up on the rocks and we were there to take a picture of the three of us like up at the top of the cliffs and he goes see where all those are breaking he’s like yeah that’s paddle out he goes that’s he goes that’s why i like i’d write it out this way and then i’d come in around the back of that and then josh you know how josh always wrote out that way and then he’d come around the back he’s like you just kept going right up the middle i was like man you think you’d tell me that like 10 minutes in yeah you know what as you said there’s like only so many things like the 97 things that i wanted to tell you or that josh wanted to tell you yeah that just didn’t make the chart yet and then once you once we realized that okay he’s going to be able to survive then that made it onto the freaking on the prioritize and execute thing don’t just sit there in the impact zone and try and paddle out um hey so i going back to the business side of things because again to me that’s one of the that’s what makes this applicable well that’s what makes your story applicable in so many different realms is the the business side and the way you’ve set things up you end you ended up eventually kind of like i don’t know if this was your your your final move no it’s not your final move but your one of your biggest moves was partnering up with with pse yeah i mean that definitely came later but yeah i mean there there came a point where our business had grown a really awesome community that was you know thriving for the educational content and then also like products that supported that educational content which was all you know sharon’s side of the house i was more you know i come up with things to talk about based on someone i’m working with at that time but yeah the brand became a community you know it became you know sharon always said like we’re not you know we don’t have fans we have you know we have a community like we have you know we have a knock-on nation that that’s kind of what we referred to it probably five years ago you know five or six years ago which uh we just turned 10 years old so you know halfway through we realized you know like what really fit our model and then yeah one of the hard things for me one of the hardest things is you know i’m a very loyal person you know and i’ve since i’ve also been i’ve worked internally at manufacturers i look at you know ambassadors or external representatives in a different light than you know if someone’s just out being an ambassador you know or public figure whatever whatever you know it’s way different now but when i was internal and we had pro staff you know you just you see what people do that really helps the company and makes you like never in question of should we get you know who are we going to keep around this year i just knew those types of things you know to where if it was just like with for me like with my friendships if it’s a two-way street then you know that’s a good relationship but if it’s all if it’s always like you know there’s always a give and a take then you know that’s just not like a healthy relationship so from like like you built me a bow you taught me how to shoot you took me on haunts and then i broke your neck that’s that’s the good relationship yeah that’s how that’s what i’m looking for that’s exactly what i’m looking for yeah a lot of people don’t know that like when you are here doing the podcast with andy and trevor that was day one of jiu jitsu for me and i was actually in this room i just couldn’t talk because my neck was broken i was over in that corner just trying to get oxygen freaking pull my esophagus off the back neck bone i had meanwhile you and nanny are just freaking laughing man check all right so so we form these really good relationships it’s a two-way street just like you and i got yeah and so it’s always been tough when when you change you know when you if you change brands because i don’t ever want it to be a reflection of loyalty but a lot of times a lot of times like the higher up you go in what you’re giving someone or what they’re giving you there’s obviously there’s just more expectation and there’s more you know i don’t know it’s just like the higher up in rank you go there’s you know there’s things that you need to do better than other people and so you know when you climb to that spot it’s sometimes it’s hard when you get to a higher level to then change because i don’t ever want to people to feel like i’m just making a change from a monetary point of view but for me i had gone through two consecutive contracts that were multi-year contracts and both of them kind of got cut when our business is trajecting you know in this format but then you know they’re like well you know we’re kind of plateauing from a marketing point of view and you know we’re not getting added budgets but we need to make room for other things so they were always transparent but it also became clear of you know we’re trajectoring up and i want to i want to provide more free content but i can’t provide free content to the consumer if i have no support from you know by the way when you say your your trajectory is going up you mean knock on archery is growing you’re getting more and more people following there are more people watching your instructionals on youtube there’s just a whole new archery pie like you know people people within the archery community that pie would be like you know local surfers around here probably you know that’s probably a pie whereas if someone just really started focusing on you know teaching surfing to people like me you know and i came in they like start this whole other thing to where these people all over here are probably looking at like what’s this guy even doing you know why why is he doing that but the reality is you know we’re kind of like baking a whole new cake because the people that we’re getting from the military and you know the people that we get from a lot of our mutual friends like i’m beyond busy just with our just with people that we know should be getting into archery right and uh at the end of that contract my last one i kind of knew i need to open my ears to everybody because i had been with that company for 10 straight years but i also had taken six years of you know to where things were plateauing and i could see there wasn’t progression so i listened to everybody and yeah i mean through everything there was honestly there was multiple deals that were better than where i was but pse came in and pretty much said like we love what you’re doing and we want you to support what we’re doing but we also want to give you the tools to where if you want to do more we’ll give you the tools for that so they said you know if you feel like you want to create a bow that’s specific to you know to your followers or if you want to do something and i said well you know can i bring in a bow that’s like at a budget price you know and they just said yeah you tell us what you wanted to sell for you know we’ll assign an engineer to you and you can you know you can do what whatever you want so it was it was just it was just a different door you know that got opened that allowed us to go a direction with our brand that i feel good about and i feel like you know i sleep well with just knowing that we’re giving back a lot and yeah pse has been a huge part of that you know they’ve just given me the tools you know the first bow we came out with is the one you and i shoot and then uh came out with another bow that was focused on you know a price to where you the average person can go and get into archery with a really good setup but probably still less than what you could buy a surfboard for you know what i mean um and then yeah we can choose our direction so it’s been an it’s been an awesome partnership and you know they’re an america you know everything’s made in america um for the stuff that you know we’re designing and it’s just it’s really cool because it’s actually the company my first bow was a pse and last year was their 50-year like anniversary so um and pse started in illinois like very close to where that road that i turned down was not very far from there so there’s just a lot of cool things like that that you know a lot of times if things are meant to be they happen you know i’ve just learned that you know if you force stuff it’s not for the right reasons so i’ve i’ve just really i’ve been fortunate that i haven’t had to make a decision based on like i can’t pay my bills if i make this decision so i’ve always just let things unfold of you know really what’s meant to be will be and you know and i feel like i feel like my progression of shooting tournament archery and learning what i learned there and learning the connections and and growing up working with the manufacturer and seeing some of that behind the scenes stuff like all those were just sacrifices and building blocks that i had to do to get to where i really want to be you know i never i never wanted to be the best tournament archer i never really wanted to be you know i didn’t want to just work in an archery you know manufacturer or you know go to all the the shoots i just i love hunting i love teaching you know i like i like going to new spots and seeing new things and having new challenges so you know that that’s kind of what it’s done for me yeah and what i like about it and i remember as this deal was unfolding you were telling me what it was like and it’s like it’s a true partnership like you said you’re allowed to go in there you can help design exactly what it is you want it’s your name going on these on this equipment so it’s like you can’t be any more invested in this company which is which is awesome yes and the other thing too is everyone needs to remember you know if you can’t shoot it well there’s no purpose to it so like through that whole process i got equipment from all these companies that i really hadn’t done hadn’t done a lot of due diligence shooting to where i you know because i’d only shot two other archery brands really at from a like professional level each one for about a decade so um i shot other competitors to know what they felt like but that doesn’t mean i knew what they would do like in my hands every day so i needed to know that and right away after three or four days i thought this is a seriously underrated product you know and i went out there and and met with them and they talked about a lot of things that they wanted to do especially like at that 50-year you know they wanted to you know make some changes from a sales point of view they wanted to make some marketing decisions that were different you know they said you know we want to be able to to hit some like niche markets which for them our community was a niche market which i think was very underrated you know now now i think they realize you know what the impact is but yeah it really gave the ability for me to take people that had incredible ideas internally and and awesome patents which you know for me would be hard to go out on my own and do it because i’d have to work around so many things that now that i’ve shot their bows i personally like so you know i would be trying to figure out a way around what they’ve solidified as a you know as a proven design so it just it was a for me it was a plug and play like and and that’s what it it had to be because you know we’ve worked really hard sharon and i to you know really stay on our path at knock on archery because there’s there’s been a lot of opportunities to you know maybe i don’t know if sell out would be like the term because it probably wouldn’t be that drastic but we could have definitely made a lot more decisions that would have put our following secondary to decisions that we made and the pse collaboration was a was a an awesome plug-and-play for us and i think as a especially me i feel like i was an athlete that built a career out of the discipline of athletics honestly um i feel like those are the little things in business you know especially now like so many people build business based off social media or you know maybe they’ve you know maybe they’ve been with origin for you know using your geese for a year and you guys have been good to them and you’re you’re laying down foundation to get to where you want origin to go but then you know brand y comes in and says well you know we’re not just going to give you a discount on a ghee we’ll give you a ghee and you know i was always at the the mindset of okay if i get a ghetto at one do i really need to get a freaky if i’ve got one even though i had to buy it from origin you know and okay let’s say i’d take the free gee well now i’ve like also started a brand new relationship so you know i think we made a lot of really good choices by weighing out like long-term relationships that understood the direction we needed to go but we weren’t there yet but they were going to help at a rate that they could to where we could get to our goal versus like you know a lot of startups are the perfect example of like you know they wait they make a lot of dumb decisions as i did as a business you know giving stuff away to the wrong people and those those places come and go all the time and i think as like an embat you know an ambassador type figure or whatever you can i think andy likes to call him influencers that’s what hashtag influencers yeah which yeah that’s your official hashtag for andy and i uh but yeah you could you know you can burn a lot of bridges and it’s just my experience that a lot of these you know jiu jitsu surfing archery the they’re like they’re small demographics they’re like small ecosystems so it’s like there’s only so many times you can burn a hole in the freaking ozone before eventually people are like that dude’s just burning the planet down if you know yeah what i like about you what you guys what you and sharon have done and i think this might be the the biggest lesson that i look at you to try and pass on other people is you guys have done the right things for the right reasons the whole time you you have put the customer first you put the clients first you put the people that are watching your videos i mean there’s there’s well that’s what you’ve done that’s what you’ve stuck to making the best products you can trying to get them at a good price point i mean for you to go to psc and like say okay i could make wonderbo you know and this super high end bow but you went there and the first really i guess the second move you made because you you did make that first bow that we’re shooting but then you said okay here’s the first move we’re gonna make a bow that is affordable to people that still kicks ass yep so i think one one of the lessons that i take away from this is like if you’re doing the right things for the right reasons in the long run strategically you’re gonna be better off than you know trying to get trying to maneuver real quick to make a little bit a buck here and a buck there like you said you’re burning a hole in the world that you have to live in and it ends up not working out well um i i hate to ask you this because i’ve you’ve probably been asked this 10 000 times but look we’ve been going for two and a half hours or something like that but if someone is starting if someone’s like hey dude this sounds awesome i wanna i wanna get into this i wanna get into archery i wanna get a bow i wanna you know what i wanna go hunting i wanna be freaking stalking around in the forest with cami paint on my face like i’m in i want to get into it what what do you recommend how do you how do you go about that well i think first you should just you know google you know google archery shops and look at ratings there’s you know some areas are very fortunate to have in our an awesome archery shop that you know has amazing you know entry-level you know classes and programs like that um but also like especially from our point of view knock on archery com is you know we offer free you know lessons and content i just put out a series you know archery 101 with uh you know mark shanker from kicks band because you and i both were like freaking hair slingers from the 80s no you’re thinking of late babin life babin was a hair slinger was it not me i wasn’t listening to freaking poison like you were i’ll give that to you bro hold what you got you know you did no offense against kicks but they weren’t in my freaking tape deck what was your top three before we go black sabbath motorhead led zeppelin ac dc and then just straight into all the hardcore stuff that i grew up on cromags bad bad brains agnostic front right on down the line who wants some well if you wanted that easier listening you had alternatives but uh no i we did a we did i just thought it was a really cool story because you know he’s he’s later in life decided to pick up jiu jitsu you know went down that path you know wanted to honestly wanted to like get away from factory farming and so decided to go down the archery path and you know wanted to like get good enough to where he could you know get his own food so to speak so it was really cool and we documented that and that’s you know it was like a three-part series which takes someone from who had never pulled the bow back and just walked walked him through like you know same thing i did with helen right you know and learning i didn’t know anything about archery you look in man so thankful that you decided like hey you will you are going to really like this stuff because you heard me on rogan and you’re like this guy needs to get a freaking bow so you set it up you came out here freaking uh like what do they say like it’s not gonna come to you on a silver platter right in life things are gonna come to you on a silver platter i literally got archery on a silver platter and i know it to everyone out there that’s like this zombo [ __ ] just had freaking dudley build my bow and then teach me like that’s what happened i know i’m sorry that i got that freaking lucky you know my buddy jack daniels at echelon front you know jack bro he he’s like man yeah he’s like he’s like man dudley taught you how to shoot man he’s like so freaking pumped um so i know that i know that i got that but one but i i didn’t even watch any of your videos like before you came out to teach me and so then immediately i go home and i’m like all right what are these videos that he’s talking about and i’m like oh that’s literally just what he told me to do yeah like i went through and i’m like oh this is what you so anybody that’s thinking i got so lucky i did i’m not taking that away but you can get just as lucky by going and pressing freaking play on a youtube video and you’re gonna get you said the exact same things to me you’re like hey this is what you need to do here’s where you start here’s the string here’s this and i’m like okay cool and i’m doing it and i go home and watch the videos i’m like that’s what he just told me he could have just sent me the youtube link he didn’t have to fly out here to san diego so every you the fact that you’ve given access to your actual program of coaching and it’s available to anybody yep it’s available to anybody so and on our youtube channel you and i parallel each other in that format like um and i heard you talk about it in the past you’ve talked about you know like you know for extreme ownership right when you first started doing it and you would you know probably when you started you would get cash by going in places and doing that presentation which is kind of like when i used to travel europe and like my slide shows you know if people took pictures of them it kind of weirded me out like i need to be booking you know i need to book another spot that’s how i’m paying for my bills you know but then it gets to the point where you realize no actually the more people you’re helping the more people that want to dive deeper so you know there came a point for me where i kind of knew i was going down the right road when people that were on higher levels were getting mad at me because they’re like don’t show them how to do that you know why are you showing them how to do that dude you know and because the u s was so dominant in archery competition for a long time in the compound bow category and so like learning that ranging system on the unknown things like you know that was never tell anyone that sort of thing um but just all these small little things you know we’d go to another country and see him like punching triggers or something and you know my buddy look at me like you freaking talk to them about punching that trigger and i’m gonna punch you in the face let’s freaking nuke these people so but yeah i just felt like um the more i the more i gave away it’s also a really good filter because you really start to see how many people are absorbing what you’re saying and not you know not being an [ __ ] where they’re just asking and they never apply ask never reply never reply you see people where you look at them and you’re like oh hey man when did you start shooting that silver back and they’re like yeah i watched you know video blah blah blah and i’ve been working on it i think i’m getting better and meanwhile i know this because i’m seeing you know what i try to teach being applied by someone that i know i didn’t directly tell it to so then naturally it’s like well hey let me give you a little bit you know let me help you progress progress this a little bit and i feel like um for you and i both you know we just got to the point where we where we realized lay it all out there and yeah there’s there’s certain places that will say dudley will give you anything to to come out here and like do it in person and blah blah blah and yeah i’ve got people um you know we’ve auctioned a couple bows that have gone you know for a lot for good always for a good cause but we we auctioned a ball a bow that went for a lot uh for the navy seal foundation to get to that million dollar march to a million mark and uh you know even though it was a raffle you know people still well you know not everyone’s got 20 bucks to buy a bunch of raffle tickets and it’s like you know you can’t make everyone happy but the reality is you know if someone really wants to go through and put it all together they can you know they can read all these and you know so many different things that i’ve heard you talk to people you know and and give them i don’t know you people will come and be like hey you know jocko give me some advice about this and then you know go through and look in here and i’m like oh yeah well you know i’ve heard him apply that exact same thing and they acted like you know he just told them something that’s never been said and it’s like actually if they if yeah if they would follow that like you know i’m a broken record when it comes to archery i’ve i’ve boiled down a recipe to you know what i feel is like a balsamic glaze it’s like the good stuff you know and i know like what can make most archers who are brand new be at a very high level fast and eliminate a lot of mistakes but you know whether you watch every video i have or read all those articles or you come in person now granted it’s easier for me to see in person a breakdown which that is the benefit to being in person you can directly connect like right away you’re not having to figure out what am i doing wrong and research it but other than that like we put it all out there if i learn something new or if we come out with a new product then you know we’re we’re going to put it out there and most of everything we do is always it’s always a derid a derivative of a need that i see that we can help with um and i remember specifically like on that bow that we were talking about uh i have chalkboards all around me like you’ve been to my house and stuff most anywhere where i if i sit down and i’m in there very long there’s chalk you know most of my walls are just painted with chalkboard paint because i just write stuff down so i don’t forget it but i remember like meeting this person that kind of said like hey you know i’d love to embark on an archery journey where do i start and so i remember like writing that down which is the name of that bow is embark because i’m like you know embark on your first archery journey embark on your first bow hunt you know um so a lot of the things that we put out there are because there was a need you know my subject matter comes from someone’s problem that i need to help them fix yeah and i’ve been the subject of that a few times on your social media you’re like hey let’s start looking at jocko’s shot he’s doing this and i’m like there you go and it’s awesome you know and and that’s the way it should be you know what’s funny is what’s not funny but probably like the third podcast that we were doing or maybe the fourth something but very early on in the podcast i remember i had been asked a question about leadership and i was going to give the answer and i was like this answer that i’m about to give is like very very very valuable and it didn’t it wasn’t like i had a major debate in my mind but it was more just an acceptance it wasn’t like i said maybe i shouldn’t give it away but it was more like i said when i give this away this is giving away something very very valuable and i and that’s what i’m gonna do like maybe there’s a little bit like well you know cause i look i have a leadership consulting company yeah right that’s what i do is i do leadership consulting if i’m just get you know hey go ahead i’m just going to give away all the answers for free well maybe that’s not a good idea and i don’t if i had that thought it was like a split second and i realized i was like no actually every possible thing that i can give to people to help them that’s what we’re doing that’s what i’m doing and and that’s what you do and like you said what helps is that solves look no one in life is going to get to the end of their problems right no one’s going to get to a point where they’re just like oh i don’t have any problems anymore with leadership right oh i’ve got everything figured out no one and so there’s so you solve a bunch of their problems cool then guess what now when you work with them you can do a problem that’s actually a little bit more complex yeah it’s actually a little bit more challenging you know like i get kind of like you you get asked hey dud you know i’m uh you know sometimes i hit a little bit low to the left and they’re thinking that that’s the first time you’ve ever been asked that you know what i mean or they say hey you know i once i’m sitting on our target i start my i start to my hand starts to shake a little bit like they’re thinking that this is only happening to them you’ve been asked that question 15 million times right it happens to me too like you know hey jocko i know you talk about cover move but sometimes the people i’m working with they don’t really you know they don’t want to do their part so how does that even work it’s like i’ve been they think that that’s the only time that’s ever happened and it’s actually happened 15 million times that i’ve been asked that question so give it away give away as much as you can to people and that elevates everybody and that means they’re they’re seeing value in what you’re doing and they’re appreciative and now guess what they get their problems prob that problem solved cool if they never have a problem again that’s great cool that’s great good for them that’s awesome i’m happy someone else is going to have that problem i’m going to learn by the way it’s just it’s just it’s doing the right things for the right reasons like i said earlier if you’re doing the right things for the right reasons it’s going to pay off in the end you and i are really similar in a lot of ways like you know right now sharon and i are staying you know in your old house um so just lurking around and you know seeing some of your stuff i mean you’re you’re not like a gadgety person you’re very like even your weights are you know the first one you got at ebay or where you know before ebay when you walked in the freaking second wind fitness or whatever freaking bought this rusty old freaking thing you got uh but you don’t get freaking old school you do what you do everything you do is that way but i’m glad you knew that the bands you used to work out were not mine they were my wifes and daughters but i think uh your consistency with like you get good at the tools you have and you you build yourself around those tools you don’t get tools to try to continue to make you better you know you’re not like looking for the cheat code looking for the cheat code yeah i know you talk about that looking for a hack like oh this if i get this it’ll make me a little bit it’ll make it a little bit easier now i’m glad we’re not talking about surfboards because you also saw my amount of surfboards that i have which is kind of freaking ridiculous yeah yeah surfboards is it’s like a freaking junkyard of surfboards all over the place yeah and there’s a little bit of an excuse for that because different waves require different boards yeah there’s a lot of different ways to surf i mean my archery room looks very similar to that but i don’t change unless there’s a change needed for the application now one of the things with me is i never really had great continual coaching a lot of the things that i teach are from mistakes like no one ever told me why i missed low left i had to figure that out over a lot of frustration and so like once i’ve learned those things everything i boil down is to try to help eliminate those mistakes and learning curves you know shouldn’t say it’s cheat codes but just like me i’m freaking surfing yesterday i do try to take a direct line of attack so my coaching method is very direct line of attack to where you’re eliminating mistakes but like getting to that particular point of topic as efficient as possible to where you’re not expending valuable energy in that archery shot i just want to make sure we capture a couple things here so i’m never done archery before and i want to get into archery what’s we we look for a good archery shop we read the reviews we what’s a good amount of money to spend on that first investment is it better to go and like hey should you go and try like hey can i try a bow like let me shoot some and see what it feels like in the shop just to just to make sure you’re like oh yeah this is freaking cool or is it like you know spend a thousand bucks spend 800 bucks what’s gonna get you in the game well i think if you go there and you you try it most archery shops are going to let you try it a little bit i think that would be valuable and be really specific to them to where you’re new you want to make sure you buy equipment that’s very suited for you as a beginner um and one of the examples of that is when you buy a bow they have like you know they all have pulling weight so when you pull them back you know it takes a certain amount of strength to pull them back i’m real strong yeah i want 500 pounds yeah that’s jocko walking in uh but a beginner like our wives for example if they went into a lot of shops some shops especially if they were excited and just wanted to buy it right then they would make do with equipment that they have and like size it down for them versus i would way rather say hey i’ll wait a couple weeks to order something to work you know it’s my pull weight the bow is the right size for me because they can always make it work but you know getting the right equipment off the get-go and being upfront with them of hey i really want to do this i enjoy it i want the right equipment and it’s my personal belief that if you get in on like the lower end stuff you’re gonna you can progress really fast with archery so what will happen is you’re going to do it just a short period of time and realize i’m actually better than this beginner piece of equipment and then you realize the value of beginner equipment is kind of a poor investment because it’s just you’re going to sell it for way less because everybody got that cheap entry point um so like with the bow that we did the embark that bow allows you to get a bow at a price to where you can put some really high-end accessories on it because the accessories can carry over it’d be like you know if you went and got a you know a cool freaking ar but then like you sh you know shot your wad on buying that thing so then you went you know you went and bought a new ski and then you’re like well i got 50 bucks left and you got to borrow your buddies like red rider bb gun like scope that came on it to like put on your noveski that’s gonna be a problem so i tell people you know get high-end accessories get you know quality arrows high-end accessories get a bow that’s in the middle of the road to where if you move up in that bow you can transfer your accessories over which you know we we’ve done with you you know we can transfer the accessory i went high end on your accessories because you don’t want accessory like you don’t want your site moving you know if you’re if your site’s moving around or if your arrow rest is moving around then there’s none of us that are going to know how well you’re really shooting because there’s just continual variables but i think i think for a thousand bucks you can get in to where you can get in and stay in without having to re-up and re-up and re-up um but you want something that has the ability to especially if you’re still growing you want to have a cam system that and that’s kind of the pulley looking things on the bow you want to be able to have something that’s adjustable and especially when you’re learning like as a coach i’m not going to be hypersensitive of you being exactly your draw length which is like your posture when you’re at like a full draw position with your bow pulling it back because you can pull a bow back to different lengths there’s a good chance that your technique is going to slightly change over the course of getting better to where you might need to make some adjustments with that so having something that has the ability to adjust is also awesome which you get when you spend it’s kind of like i think there’s like 100 increments like you can get a bow for 400 bucks but you’re gonna be limited you know and then i think once you get to like 6 99 7 99 for the bow only you’re in a really good position and then put good accessories on it and you know you’ll be enjoying it for a while that that level bow like the embark like you you go out and hunt with that thing this is yeah i’ll i’ll shoot one day at the tax we’ll be with an embark and then one day i’ll be with an ntn like when i you know i and last year um i took that bow you know on one of my most memorable hunts you know because i’ve always that’s one thing i’ve always done is i want people to feel like even though for a particular brand they have a low end model a mid-grade model and a high-end model i’ve always put some of those budget bows to a test and i’ve used them because i want i don’t want people to feel like they can only shoot archery if they have the best gear i’ve proven time and time and time again that that middle range is a is a very good place to get in and you can honestly you can stay there and be totally okay but you know it’s no different than you know there’s a lot of cars that are awesome but you know i like my ram but i might want that hellcat ram even though technically it drives the same yeah right on well i think that’s uh that’s good info and i’m sure a bunch of people it’s probably good yeah we’re approaching three hours right now but i just wanted to make sure people are going to get interested in this i want people to and by the way you have all this information on on your youtube channel about like how to get started what to look for everything from freaking arrows to the like everything so yeah it’s it’s all out there if you want to go a little bit deeper um but yeah man i obviously i appreciate you coming on but man i appreciate i appreciate what you’re doing what you’re doing for veterans you know that are out there what you’re doing for your whole community of people that are making their life better because they’re out there they got they got a mission and and absolutely what you’ve done for me helped me out delivering silver platter bow hunting to me which again i’m sorry for everyone for being so spoiled uh i’m lucky and i appreciate it but man it’s been awesome and and i want to help get other people heading down that path because man i think it’s beneficial in so many different ways man yeah it is 100 i think it’s an awesome and awesome sport especially for people that come from your background um who are looking for a new mission you know you said it perfectly because with all of you guys who have done it you know learning a new discipline or a new trade is one thing but then once it comes to like packing up to freaking go on call that lights a whole different intensity where you know hey we’re meeting you know we’re we’re we’re out at dark back at dark and when you’re out there you know geared up and freaking ready to get after it you know i remember the first time you and i went out and we were on that hillside glassing and you just said bro this freaking this is recon right now like you know i’d have a team right over there there’d be freaking two dudes right there they’d be like you know back up and then we’d be here and like you know the [ __ ] would be all pulled over tight you know it was you were in your element just dorking out yeah well you were head freaking dork on the scenario so it’s all good awesome man echo charles you can see what kind of focus and consistency it takes to uh to approach excellence in any element cognitive focus but the pursuit never stops the pursuit of excellence doesn’t stop what suggestions do you have you know we talked about uh being an athlete right the importance the value of being an athlete which i was was with you the whole time i agree fully but we don’t want to stop that just because we get older and take on other responsibilities are you getting older well that’s gotta suck it’s just one of those things man the life i live nonetheless we gotta stay in the game even on our off time there’s no off time on time this is just time something like that nonetheless we have things to help you through this journey supplementation first thing you talk about focus we have discipline discipline i’m glad i was able to look at you just to get you on track bro cause you were starting to stray whatever you i could probably chime in on a few things because i can tell you like three things that are pinnacles for me from you know from origin cold war freaking joint warfare and the vitamin d and freaking have powered through coved you know coven year was like no factor no factor but i was those those three for me are every day that are like right next to my cup of coffee where i know i’m getting after it first thing in the morning yeah that’s um those are those are freaking legit the joint warfare is the go read the reviews on joint warfare don’t listen to me who am i i’m free i own the company of course i’m gonna tell you it’s good right go read the reviews from other people and what it does to them and what they say that grandmother started taking it now all of a sudden you know she’s whatever playing tennis again and whatnot you know yeah it’s true but this is the whole purpose yeah you own the company cool but the whole purpose that you have this stuff is because that was like your pursuit even before that true like yeah you got to take the stuff krill oil uh you know all the ingredients you know that well you added some ingredients and then where you stack that up to make this better because why not like it’s not like oh i’m just going to take no make it better make it the best possible thing that you can put into your mouth to make your freaking joints bulletproof son yeah yeah true and i’m with you with that that combo every day um the cold war not as much that that’s kind of a seasonal thing don’t like the cold super krill 2 get that krill oil on man get them little fish down what are they fish no little shrimp little shrimps little tiny shrimps kind of like shrimps yeah fish well good too though you know i might want to look at you fish oil is good yeah you’re right chocolate is a label he’s read it and researched it there’s a reason that we see fish oil is like whatever that’s your freaking four hundred dollar bow yeah krill that’s the entry or the krill oil is the freaking top of the line is the top of the line super krill is where it’s at i understand fully um i mentioned the discipline discipline go look hey look some of us are into energy drinks but really we’re not into energy drinks we’re into the idea of energy drinks and what they don’t tell you about the whole energy drink thing is that there’s poison inside straight up normal energy drinks yeah tradition that’s why yeah so this is the upgrade this is the i don’t know whatever you guys call it so you know i don’t think it’s an upgrade i think it’s new category yeah it’s new category it’s like oh we’re over here drinking poison you’re over here drinking something that’s awesome for you clean alternatives is like a long overdue category for because think of how many guys went in and got after it in victory and then walked out and just grabbed dog crap in a plastic bottle to like have something on the way out the door it is way past you yeah way past you yeah it’s almost like and i’m not as in touch with it but i’m you know i’m a casual we’ll say but it seems like the whole energy casual or what it’s i mean besides life everything what else all of the above you said you’re a casual what are you talking about energy drinks oh before you see if it wasn’t for me being on deployment like like with with energy drinks and needing them because i need it’s like hey i’m freaking wicked tired and i’ve been awake for 48 hours and i need caffeine into my system that’s why i started drinking energy drinks and then but what do you deal with you deal with oh i got done drinking the energy drink now i i don’t have that way freaking out anymore and now i feel like dog [ __ ] yeah yeah and that’s exactly because there’s a bunch of junk in there that’s exactly what i’m saying and you’re talking about like extra what about when you’re in the club what about you when you were freaking doorman of the year or whatever i never i never i never got into energy drinks as much you know every once in a while or whatever i just drink coffee because they have coffee available whatever as far as staying up no but i’m talking about like activity you’re talking about going on deployment all this i don’t like the taste of coffee okay yeah i understand sir i was talking to evan and evan’s like bro he’s like he’s like i want to get bring up to utah and i you know i’m gonna figure out what what um coffee you know what coffee you like this you know there’s got to be a way you know he’s like a he’s like a sommelier of the java bean right and he’s like wanting to create it he was texting me this he’s like yeah the bean that you like and the roast that you like and all the stuff i texted him back i go bro i don’t even like coffee ice cream good luck and he started laughing but that’s kind of an important factor right there because coffee like coffee is like beer where it’s like at the end of the day you’re always going to have the beer flavor there’s a beer flavor it’s like there’s a coffee flavor and then from that flavor there if it was all the different bridals tasting like coffee it wouldn’t be coffee exactly if you made it with freaking cocoa beans it wouldn’t be coffee yes right if you made it with tea leaves it wouldn’t be coffee correct yeah exactly right or strawberries or whatever evan was trying to put on your flavor we’ll see i don’t know he’s a freaking he’s into it man he maybe he can pull it off we’ll see it’s chocolate peanut butter you might be all over that well that’s like you with milk bro like i sent you like a whatever you got some milk and then like two weeks later like okay you’re like a freaking cracker yeah it’s true but the energy drinks is like a lot of these activities that they’re sometimes in my observation which is limited i know but in my observation it’s associated with these activities that are kind of let’s just say they would benefit more from a healthy oh for sure fuel for source yeah why would you be doing out something that’s physically demanding and putting poison in your body so you okay don’t do it you go to big sky whatever you know that hill you’re always sending me videos of you guys charging or whatever what’s it called the pig what’s a mountain yeah yeah oh of course what is that called just tell me if you say yeah bro when i ran up that thing after you and i were like kept walking down that mountain every day and be like man this would be a good workout when i went and did i was like yup confirmed that sucks yeah and that’s what i’m saying so so i need you right the lift up there okay so in the snow we’ll say if you’re really used to it okay good but just being in the snow just like just being in the ocean or on deployment or in the in the woods pardon my lack of terminology but um it is technically it is woods okay just being there bro it’s like that’s in and of itself is a thing like you can’t you’re not just cruising you’re just you’re working right okay and then you’re doing your activity on top of that and whether you’re in big sky you know the woods the water whatever like right you’re gonna you’re not gonna want poison in that scenario right there no or even anything that you’re gonna pay the price later or something like that and it’s not needed you don’t need to no you don’t need to have poison and that’s why you guys the blink of the good stuff in the house hey wawa if you want this stuff here on the east coast go to wawa and you know they were saying they tried to pull the reins on us they’re like don’t don’t tell everyone to clear the shelf stop stop saying we’re customers we’re back see if you can run that supply chain into the ground i challenge you all to see if you can run that supply chain into the ground for me see what happens if you do i’ll figure something out i’ll do what’s something i could do like make a funny hat put on a funny hat and do a video or something grow those bangs back a haircut back that ain’t happening to me it’s bothersome to me when my hair is like a quarter of an inch long or whatever like it already bothers me so go going that distance would freaking drive me crazy unacceptable yeah uh vitamin c or something else oh yeah vitamin chop and there’s a subscription scenario you don’t want to run out of that uh that that everyday um supply you know jockoful com which by the way is where you need to think they called the good good what’s the good good well here’s the deal man we’re we’re not look we’re not alone in the world good good there’s there’s capitalism out here we’re competing on an open market we’re competing with some people that are pretty big so when you compete with people that are pretty big you got to figure out how you’re going to make something happen so what we wanted to do is free shipping right because people are very used to free shipping because there’s some companies out there that do free shipping and so how do we how can we make that happen the way we made it happen is if you get subscriptions to any of these products the boom shipping’s free there you go all right cool uh also originusa com okay this is where you can get american-made stuff from jiu-jitsu stuff all the way down to non-jiu-jitsu everyday stuff like for real everyday stuff like jeans like jeans like wallets boots yeah still waiting on my hat pete which hat a beanie a a ball cap no you know the one that he wears what are they called flat cap those are called a flat cap but they’re like kind of the frenchy ones yeah it’s like it’s called a flat cap it’s not like a fedora no it’s a it’s called a flat cap it’s like what you see like a little british dude wear it dude andy got me one in france a camo one that i wear sometimes and it’s made out of ammo flat cap yeah dude legit and it’s made out of like sweatshirt material and it’s freaking comfy on your head i hunted with it i told pete like make me that out of my origin hoodie material because that hoodie is like the my favorite thing i wear around the house every day oh yeah that thing’s freaking the freaking mid weight that soft ass one that’s freaking awesome right you used to say the most comfortable sweat suit ever in existence they make pants to match that yeah they do that are like longer than 28 inches or oh yeah you gotta you got a situation we’ll sew two pairs together for your freaking long ass legs i heard that where i saw they had some socks brewing yep socks are brewing we’re gonna make everything interesting make everything everything we’re bringing it back to america we’re gonna make it so you can wear it and we will make like they’re making all these different like cool socks but at some point i’m just gonna make straight up white socks like you know i roll hey you have a lot of good ideas you do that one when are you gonna make a jock strap dude you need to make a jock strap that’s a good call man that’s a great that’s a that’s a great one i’ve been hearing that joke since i was in third grade well for good reason uh but yeah good yes all american-made stuff really good also jacques store it’s called jocko store and this is where you can get shirts and rash guards and hoodies and hats and stuff that are representative of the path directly and then there’s the shirt locker which this is how this is what savage yeah by the way this is what this is how savage people are so we have this thing called the shirt locker yeah it’s it’s a subscription and if you’re on the subscription you get like a one-off t-shirt yeah like if you have to be on like you can’t go buy it later so somebody’s actually i think a couple people are already jacking the designs i don’t even know how they’re doing that that this it’s not like that design is like on display people posted it people posted the real one so like and then then they jack it and they put it on these websites like hey it’s freaking ridiculous that’s how savage people it is savage and it is lame but it’s there’s like a few you told me i only use the word savage in a negative way but i all no i definitely use it in a positive way yeah more often i think you just you just more attuned to it because i say it with such disc like those just that’s just what a savage yeah when when somebody’s like doesn’t have the creativity to figure out how to make a cool t-shirt and sell it instead they’re just savages and just stealing the design yeah what who does that yeah it yeah it’s it’s savages now what’s jacked up is you could also be like oh man like you can it can obviously be super positive thing like all these dudes like you said earlier you’re like hey where the guida twins are from or where the guider brothers are from there’s a bunch of savages in their neighborhood they’re wrestlers and their fighters and i was like yeah cool i totally knew what you were talking about yeah so it’s one of those words that can go either way but that’s a compliment word we’ve had many conversations where if jocko says savage it’s it’s a high compliment for someone that doesn’t know they just got one it is a weird thing because i use it as the highest co one of the highest compliments one of the lowest insults i can give it’s literally the same word that dude’s a savage or that dude’s a savage what a freaking bunch of savages i don’t know how they get the the design because it’s not like okay like the one okay so hardcore condos are good or this one equals freedom you go to like i don’t want to tell anyone how to get it but it’s on display somewhere you know but the shirt locker ones they tend they’re not there’s like a hint of them somewhere no but no no people are taking when they get their shirt locker shirt oh and they’re posting it like yo got the new shirt locker shirt oh yeah and they gave it over okay so how they how they do that right the knockoffs basically the counterfeit pirated like designed shirts they go to one of these like internet yeah yeah yeah uh what do you call purchase by to order the recipe or whatever no you can do it here’s the here’s how bad it is if you if you know about it and you can if you just have like half a brain no offense to the people who bought those but you can tell you look at it and it’s like this weird like mock-up of the design on this real like real like what do you call it model it’s like when you buy a metallica t-shirt like from some dude on the beach yeah and it looks like there’s like plastic stickers yeah yeah exactly stuck to your freaking shirt oh yeah well what i feel bad about is though is i know that some people are doing like they’re like oh cool like i want to support because we’re like you like hey man if you want to support what’s going on here then you get some get some gear and so they actually are stoked like oh cool i’m helping out you know the podcast we’re in the game and then they realize they’re giving their money to some freaking freaking savage out there then stop the savage support yeah yeah and they yeah and they use like super when i say substandard material it’s like you know it’s like the internet shirt that you print yeah you know it’s like that then they get that not to mention there’s more to it than just that front design there’s a lot more to it oh there’s like layers there’s little there’s little elements of the shirt if you examine it you’re like okay i’m in the game with this shirt even on a physical level not to mention the philosophical level and you don’t get that either man so it’s brutal anyway if you want the uh if you want to get involved with the shirt locker or any of these other things jackostore com also we got uh you know you should possibly subscribe to this podcast but but on top of that so you have a podcast there’s there’s a there’s a uh podcast it’s knock on podcast and it’s talking about archery but it’s not just talking about archery you talk about you interview you know dudes yeah cool people different people from different walks of life how they got where they’re that where they are of course you do cover if you just want to get freaking granular on some archery [ __ ] well you can go you’ll get so granular you won’t even know where you are anymore yeah we’ve imploded friends that try to go too deep down the archery rat hole like we had one blow up today it’s just freaking good too you got to be careful man it’s like crack dude you know like you got to be careful you start going down that rabbit hole next thing you know you look up and your world’s exploded uh so yeah check out check out that podcast knock on podcast we want to hear more about archery and just other aspects of life obviously you can subscribe to this podcast um we also have jocko unraveling i’ve been rolling out some some episodes with with with uh daryl cooper which are which are kind of some crazy episodes coming out and they’re just getting crazier him we want to talk about me and him are like rabbit hole freaking uh uh point man vietnam going deep into some mayhem with a with an angle flashlight and a 45 caliber pistol and we’re going down some holes that they’re scary so you can come check that out we’ve got the grounded podcast we get the warrior kid podcast uh we can also you can also join us on the underground for the jocko underground which is it’s just a little it’s a little like when you like here’s here’s something you’ll understand echo charles you used to work in the clubs right yeah you’re in the clubs yeah you’re in the clubs i wouldn’t say and there’s like the front door right where people are coming in right and they’re feeling like yeah i’m in the club yeah but then there’s also like a vip scenario okay there’s something else going on right he calls it the back door yeah so there’s something else there’s like a little bit more right going on yeah so we have we have the jaco underground podcast jockowinderground com if you want to if you want to come and hang out a little bit more echo and i are we’re in there we’re chilling we got bottle service back there i guess is that the type of thing that’s going on yeah there sure there’s bottle service going on there’s bottle services metaphorically metaphorically because you can send a question and and if you’re in the underground you can send a question we’re going through those questions we’re i’m putting out little um other things that i’m diving into yeah and they’re interesting because they explain a lot like when you listen to it you’re like and you kind of put it all together if you’re one of those people who are like oh i see what he did there when you remember some stuff that you heard you’re like oh and it starts to paint this bigger picture and explain a lot of the stuff yeah there’s a there’s a holistic viewpoint that starts to come into the horizon so go to jockowunderground com if you want to get in there costs 8 18 a month we’re trying to jack all your money no if you can’t afford it go go to assistance at jockowunderground com but we do need to have a contingency in case things go sideways in case freaking big brother comes down and just starts stomping out freedom of speech we gotta have a little access port to be able to still do what we’re doing and put out the word we also don’t want to have a bunch of uh of uh sponsors that are saying um hey we don’t want you to talk about this because we think it might be offensive to our brand we’re not doing that jockowunderground com uh youtube we got a youtube channel where echo puts up videos also all kinds of more information than you could shake a stick at knock on archery so check those out for a bunch of information also origin usa has a little youtube channel talking about what’s going on up in farmington maine we got psychological warfare what’s that all about echo channel it’s an album it’s a jocko album with jocko tracks on it helping us get through our moments of weakness if they may come about 100 effective by the way excellent we got some books final spin it’s a novel it’s kind of a novel it’s it’s kind of crazy it’s cool the final edits are coming back right now um and you always get like little comments and we’ll just say it’s going to be interesting to see how this one hits oh comments with the edits yeah yeah they’ll put like something they’ll give you edits but then they’ll be like you know right it’s like yeah so we’re getting it’s check it out if you want that first to dish leadership strategy and tactics field manual the code the evaluation is the protocol this clinical freedom field manual way the warrior kid one two three and four mikey and the dragons about face by colonel david hackworth you’re going through that right now right yep three quarters of the way through i guess you’re listening to it yeah how’s that i listened to some of it it seems like the guy is a pretty good reader yeah yeah i agree i mean some of these readers are just defensive like you listen to them and you’re like this guy is just picked us up for the first time he has no idea what’s going on no contacts and he’s just reading the words on the page i thought that the first like hour i probably thought but then some of the things that he wrote reminded me of my grandfather so much to where now when i hear it i hear my grandpa talking because he was he was gritty you know korean war gritty and depression gritty so like i’m hearing him tell it how it is and you know and even like the terminology like he was a good man that was classic you know that was classic papa right there he’s like he you know he was a good man or you know that that that man’s a coward or you know he was like there was a clear line you’re above it or below it that was it yeah yeah hackworth hackworth definitely does that uh hackworth said this guy the guys are either studs or duds no offense totally true uh we got echelon from leadership consultancy we solve problems through leadership you go to ashlandfront com for details there we have ef online which is which is online training for leadership we have musters where we get together and we get granular on leadership we’re executing these this year the only reason we didn’t we were going to execute one last year the last one of the year and then i got miss rona so we had to freaking cancel that thing um but we’re doing orlando may 25th and 26 phoenix august 17th and 18th las vegas october 28th and 29th go to extremeownership com we’ve sold out every event that we’ve ever done so and these events are we have less seats because of social distancing and whatnot so there’s less seats so if you want to come get there asap we have ef battlefield where we go out onto actual battlefields the next one’s coming up are in we’re doing the battle of gettysburg we sold out the first one we opened up a second one register asap if you want to come to that and if you want to help service members active and retired you want to help their families you want to help gold star families you can check out mark lee’s mom markley’s mom has her own charity organization and if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to americasmightywarriors org and if you want more of my sustained sagas or you want more of echo’s mysterious meanderings you can find us on the interwebs on twitter instagram and on facebook echoes that echo charles i am at jogger willing dudley so dudley can be found at knockonarchery com and then on instagram facebook and twitter it’s at knock on tv yep what else sounds youtube knock on archery yep yeah justin says knock on tv oh okay check wait wait twitter might be twitter is too i checked him this morning and and facebook looks like that too echo you got anything else uh yeah if like i have kids that i want them to get in art into archery obviously you have you know direction for that scenario oh yeah yep no same exact thing doesn’t matter the age group you know look for a good shop see if they have a good youth program if not then dive down the down the youtube rat hole or you know follow on social media try to give some type of free education you know if not every day every other day i mean a lot of what i do is just trying to help the archery lifestyle in some for former fashion is there so i got my son he’s four a ball from amazon he it’s and it’s like perfect where he puts a lot of effort and then he can pull it back so i remember pulling is it like a compound bow no it’s like four yeah it’s the kind where i pulled the back i was like oh he might not be able to do this and then but when he does it he can do it mm-hmm but what’s it shooting suction cups or what’s it shooting like nerf things or what’s it shooting i would say i don’t yeah i don’t know about all the arrow tips heads what is it what is the end of it it looks it reminds me of looks like you know the old school like you know if you have archery class at school you know the thing like it’s it’s it’s not sharp but it’s made to stick into something a blunt point yeah like but it has a little tip to it kind of kind of a thing but you couldn’t like cut yourself just by scrapping scratching yourself with that but the question is like if i just buy a random bow like that is that like a note like should i not do that or honestly with kids that are that young just let them freaking watch arrows fly and have fun okay that was my mindset pull back and let it rip keep them close so you know i tell people you know kids like playing games that they always win at so you know if you try to make your kid shoot it a target at your distance it’s going to be problematic you know keep it keep a target big keep them close if they see themselves hitting in the middle they don’t really make the correlation of well that target’s bigger than dads or this one’s closer they’re you know if you’re just like all right you know you shoot for the gold i’m gonna shoot for the gold let’s you know and if they’re like i beat you again i beat you again that’s perfect scenario yeah echo charles we started talking about making a warrior kid bow what do you think i think that that’s a great idea yeah what age dud can a kid get like a bow that’s freaking like pretty legit i i think probably by seven or eight they can be going down the right path where you can teach some solid fundamentals and get something set up for them yep that’s the warrior kid age too coincidentally we might have to keep going down that path awesome dudley anything else i’m good right oh man awesome well like i said earlier man thanks for thanks for everything you’ve done for the archery community thanks for what you’re doing for all the vets all over the place and and really you know thanks for what you’ve done for me i know that you like i said silver platter man it’s been freaking awesome i appreciate it um and all you got back from me was a freaking broke neck and a freaking brown paper sack for instructions yesterday i figured you nearly drowned i broke your neck and almost drowned you i’m from the best man i’m just a savage he calls his friend josh over to like give me a board so i’m like oh man this is freaking awesome like he didn’t even like deliver the cherry he like had someone else make the cherry and then freaking just threw me into the freaking soup freaking watch me drown seaweed and get that 40-foot leash that was my board wrapped around my neck 15 times yeah look i’m not the best guy in the world i’m sorry but i appreciate your efforts back at me uh thanks for telling us everything you learned today like i said it’s not just about archery it’s about life it’s about business it’s about moving forward and thanks to your dad and his service and and thanks to all the vets out there and thanks to the current service members out there around the world protecting our freedom when you get done with that mission you’re gonna need a new mission check out some archery man it’s good for you and to the people out there in service here at home to police law enforcement firefighters paramedics emts dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all the other first responders thanks for protecting us in our times of need and to everyone else out there just remember that bow hunting is like life the winds don’t come easy and you don’t always win you don’t always win but you still have to prepare you still have to get the reps you still have to go through the process and you have to keep going keep trying to improve so that you can get what you are after and until next time this is john dudley and echo and jocko out