in extreme ownership you talk about being close with the team but not so close that they forget who’s in charge or that the good of the team suffers how do you overcome the isolation of leadership what strategies did or do you employ to avoid the isolation becoming an issue this is an example of I’m gonna take this to the extreme hey I’m not gonna be too close to my people guess what I’m not talking to them right I’m not gonna speak to them I’m gonna maintain a distance I’m gonna and it’s it’s obviously not true it’s obviously not true and I think you know that the relationship that you and me and Seth and the that we all had was clearly this right I wasn’t alone I wasn’t isolated as the leader because we were all bros and hanging out and now did it start off like that no you know I as we always talked about like I come across a hacker style of like hey we’re not gonna joke around for at least whatever six to eight weeks to make sure that these dudes are good to go and that that they understand where I’m coming from and and that’s cool but once we get through that okay like then it’s like open up a little bit then it’s like opening up a little bit more and then it’s up one up a little bit more so that you’re not isolated at the top because not only is it important that you’re not isolated that’s like that’s like a a marginal thing what’s more important is what I talked about earlier is if you if life can’t come to me and say hey man hey I don’t agree with this plan or more importantly hey Jocko here’s what’s going on with the troops right now here’s what’s going on with the mentality here’s what’s going on with the morale if he can’t knock on my door and say that to me then that’s a real problem because now you know I’m in the dark on what’s happening inside inside with the troops which is problematic yeah I think it’s this to me sounds like I was think about this question and it sounds to me like maybe a junior leader that was promoted of the shame because that because that’s where you really feel like when I go from you know the assistant will do commander where I’m like kind of one of the boys and I’m you know we’re we can you know it’s kind of I can kind of play interference with it with the officer in charge and the between commander now said I get promoted it’s kanai’s instantly there’s a little bit of difference you’ve got to maybe kind of distance yourself slightly from where you were previously and recognized when you took over Charlie Bethune as the platoon commander when did you realize that you needed to transition from being one of the boys until being the oh I seen that there was that the gap was gonna open up a little bit was it as soon as you took over it was pretty quick cuz I’ve been to buds and steel qualification training you know sqg are advanced training with with several guys and I knew these guys very well and you know I think we had big house party you hanging out you know having a good time and and everybody’s over at my house and all of a sudden I realized something I did all the time you know as an assistant platoon commander and all of a sudden were in at work you know the next week and I got a got to make some some tough calls and we got to get you know drive the standards a little bit higher where we’re at and there’s some pushback and you realize like okay when it’s it when it’s time to give people some bad news or say hey we’re not doing as good as we should we need to fix that and they kind of give you the leg hey bro you know what are you doing Friday yeah then it’s then you’re like okay I’m gonna have to I’m gonna have to distance a little bit but the isolation you should never be isolated I think that’s one thing that you know I remember coming into your office and I come in and hang out all the time in your office you know you’re you you you come in and hang out in the platoon space I mean I’ve come you know we see each other in the gym with like we were always trying to find a way to like hang out and talk and and it was even even when you know Seth’s tomans all the way across the other side of the city I mean I you know we’d still connect with him and talk to him on the phone and was well yeah well I talked about time on the a nd VT yeah you guys do you guys talk but but having but even even meat you know yeah we’d always he came by like we don’t try to try to get together and talk to each other and catch up whether it’s in the chow hall or or you know in a platoon space and you know guys like I’ve ever Tony would come in there I’d come in I’d walk in and I’d see the wind plan written up on chocos whiteboard and task unit bruiser or Tony had written down all the things that we needed to do to win in Ramadi which were pretty harsh yes yes but probably I’m like probably on the level like Genghis Khan would certainly agree downwind planet weird you know hey man but as its mayor we are we are joke and laughing about that this is the relationship Jocko had you know it would me but with with other leaders in the task unit and and I think you have to have that I mean you’ve got to have a you’ve got to have relationship with your people you can’t think that I can’t talk to anyone I can’t interact with anyone I think there’s you’re gonna be unsuccessful as a leader you know if you try to roll that way it’s just not gonna work yeah I think we’re you might feel what might feel like a isolation which is definitely true and this is the burden of command right like guess what you’re friends with Lafe you’re friends with Seth you’re friends with Tony you’re friends with these guys but at the same time like oh the burden of command is on you and it’s gonna be it’s gonna be you you’re gonna you’re gonna bear that right in your platoon it’s like hey you got your assistant in commanders you’ve got your platoon chief you got your LPO but when something goes wrong if something goes wrong if you if there’s a bat if something happens on a mission that goes bad I’m not talking I’m not I’m not looking at the assistant platoon commander I’m looking at you that’s the burden of command that’s so that thing yeah that’s that there’s one man that stands on the carpet right that’s that’s the way it works and sometimes being one man that’s that’s a little bit of an isolating feeling to and to help help you understand our leading petty officer charlatan awesome awesome amazing see I love the guy and hopefully could be on here one of these days after he wrote his retirement comes one of these days but he was I’m we were we were up in Nevada training and we took a couple days to go snowboarding mm-hmm which was an awesome deal and he like we’re in the van he looks around he like sees me he’s like I’m not the senior guy and so he’s screaming at laughing about how awesome it is to not be the senior guy cuz he knows the burden of command is now with me and now with him that guys get in trouble or do some simulation to know so yeah yeah which is while you’re in Tahoe guys getting in trouble and doing stuff stupid it’s probably a fairly likely thing to have a high that’s one of my favorite trips that I did multiple times yeah so that’s it men build relationships and at the same time you when you’re in charge you’re in charge and there’s a little bit of that’s called the burden of command embrace it
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