Jocko Podcast 79 w/ Echo Charles: How To Get People to Take Action.

this is Jocko podcast number 79 with Echo Charles and me Jocko a link good evening echo good evening and it has been a little while since we were able to hammer out some QA sure questions from the interwebs and so here we are number 79 let’s answer some questions from the interwebs what do you got cool go first question Jolla wait should we spend a bunch of time with a bunch of fluff and talking about nonsense or should we get to the questions let’s say we get to the court about 27 minutes worth of advertisements let’s get to the questions rock and roll I am a vascular surgeon training residents how do you apply decentralized command when your team changes every one to three months yeah solid question and with something like that what we need to do is we need to get a standard operating procedure in place with clear documentation some kind of a qualification and approval process and then a monitoring system in place right so this this the reason I can kind of the reason that’s pretty easy transition for me to make mental ease because we would have to do this kind of things sometimes in the SEAL Teams when you get for instance you’re overseas on deployment in a warzone and you get some guys that show up to work halfway through the deployment or two months in the deployment or three weeks before deployment ends you get some guys that show up they’re seals right so they understand the fundamental concepts but you haven’t worked with them specifically before they haven’t worked with the platoon before they don’t know the area of operations that you’re in specifically they don’t know what kind of mission specifically you’re conducting and where the Intel is coming from basically I don’t know anything other than the fundamental knowledge of being a seal but as far as that particular job Rose they don’t know too much so what you have to do is you have to run them through a bunch of familiarization stuff very quickly about the gun trucks and how your Humvees are set up you’ve got to make sure they can get on a 50 cow at a mark 48 and a mark and understand our crew-served weapons and how we operate them because our crew-served weapons by the way a lot of times we most of time operate our Cruiser for weapons alone so they got to make sure they can do this Humvees right a lot of the older guys and the SEAL team is before the war started they wouldn’t know how to operate Humvee so you had to make sure they knew how to do that they had to understand the mission why we were doing the mission what was important about it what was the commander’s intent they had to know the rules of engagement because the military will take a guy that lands in Kunshan they’ll give them like a 30-minute brief to welcome to any country and 30 seconds of it’ll be a rules of engagement brief and they won’t really understand it so you got to make sure they understand that you’ve got to when’s the last time they did med training medical training when’s the last time is that has it been like 12 years since they put on a tourniquet okay not good we got to get them from the your eyes on that how they gonna stop the bleeding the different IEDs threats that are out there because the ID threats change all the time what kind of trigger mechanisms are being used and what kind of identifying marks or for ID says all this stuff the list goes on and on and so you have to develop some kind of a standard operating procedure hey when a guy shows up this is what we need to do with them boom they need to go through this this little checklist you put together and then if the person is a leader maybe you got to go and do a couple left see right she rides with them so that may do other people use that terminology left seat right seat not that I know okay so if I was the platoon commander and you were coming in to take over for me we would plan a mission together and I would be in charge of the mission yeah so I be in the driver’s seat Oh like a pilot copilot yeah and lady in the next you’d be under view be watching and you’d be in the passenger seat and I would be running everything and then maybe we do that a couple times and yours is watching me and then we switch seats you get a driver seats but I’m still there watching and telling you to move to the left to move a little right and then eventually you got it and I’m going to leave go hutch yeah so maybe if the person is a leader you got to do two or three or four outs or whatever to get them a good turnover so now in all these situations or if it’s not a full-on turnover because that you’re going to walk away from but if it’s just a you’ve got some other group small entity or people that are coming in you’re not going to be able to give them that full 100% decentralized command right you’re still gonna have to keep a little bit more watch on them because you’re not going to build up the full level of trust in one to three months that just not possible so there will be a little bit of limitations but you can definitely you can definitely move pretty far down the path and one other thing that’s going to help us a document and that’s really smart to put together a document with very clear roles and responsibilities and expectation and then not just give them the document and say hey read this letter no no you sit down and go over every single thing with them so what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to condense this timeline of building trust into the shortest possible time and one of the ways you do that is by condensing everything into a simple clear concise format written format go through talk it with them so they understand it and do it very clearly like when I was in task unit bruiser I didn’t lay anything like that out for little team commanders for Lafe in the Delta platoon commander and say here’s the rules no I did that over along for your time you know over a year workup now that now within a few months they kind of knew what the deal was but if I would have if that would have been my normal job and I would have been getting a new platoon commanders every three months every time they came in over the car you the new platoon commanders of this war between commander does this is the rules and rules roles and responsibilities this is the expectations that I have for you this is when you call me this is when you make a decision on your own lay all that stuff perfectly clear and that way it could more quickly develop a sense of decentralized command now again it’s not going to be full decentralized command you’re not going to let us let somebody run with it they’ve only been you for three months and you know I don’t know I don’t know what the timeline is – for a vascular surgeon to get total trust in their subordinate vascular surgeons or their subordinate team members but I’m sure it takes longer than one two three months so how much can you condense the timeline what can you do to condense it once you get it condensed as much as you can you’re still going to have to do a little bit more monitoring than you would normally do but it is still going to be beneficial it’s going to be beneficial for them and it will be beneficial for you to operate as much as you can in the decentralized methodology so when you say condense the timeline that’s for the procedure no it’s condensed the timeline could build trust Oh actually also I want a decentralized command is about trust right if I trust you and you trust me it goes up and if I’m in charge and I trust you that means you’re going to go out and you know what to do and when you’re out there you know you trust that I am going to cover for you and I’m going to trust the decisions that you make so decentralized command is about trust in order to have trust we have to have understanding and in order to understand things we have to work together so what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to condense the timeline that it takes us to build trust and how do I do that I just been very direct and lay things out in a very simple clear concise format so that you can understand it very quickly that’s my goal next question when and how is the right way to skip the chain of command when you feel like your direct superior is a part of the problem big one big one because this is very very problem back and skipping the chain of command is a last resort it is a last resort why is it a last resort because when you skip the chain of command you’re breaking the trust I just talked about you’re breaking it the relationship that you’ve been building you’re damaging it it’s not good sometimes it’s unsalvageable by the way sometimes when you skip the chain of command you will never be able to recover from that now of course if there’s something that the your media sphere is doing that’s illegal or immoral or unethical if that’s the case then it’s actually your duty to go above them in the chain of command now do you still first report it to them and say hey what you did is wrong we’re not going to do that yes you should tell them first unless it’s going to you know cause you to get in some horrible situation now this is an interesting thing that I thought about let’s say you and I are working together and and you’re my boss and you let’s say you’re doing something that’s immoral illegal unethical right and I watch you do it and and I and I see you leaning towards it I’m like oh I think you can do something that’s illegal right here and I don’t say anything and then I watch you do it and then I run up the chain of command report you in Bosque right you got to be careful with that and and I think when you work for someone or when someone works for you you need to lay it right out of the gate like hey this is where I stand like I’m not gonna cover for you if you do some stupid illegal things you don’t wait for them to do it and then drop the hammer on them maybe I’m being overly fair maybe we should be all out to get people that are you know doing something that they shouldn’t be doing part of the problem yeah I I actually I I believe that’s my belief is when I when I meet you and I say hey what’s going on and you make a little crack you know you make a little joke you know you say well you know it’s not like that’s not like the sound like the customers can really see that money you know let’s say you’re gonna skim money for all right right yeah that’s right yeah you make a little joke like that you know you and you’re in what you’re doing is testing the waters with me like my ethical moral so I’m like yeah there’s no way they would ever know and besides we pretty much work for it anyways right right you’re gonna see if you’re gonna get that reaction so you know we just you know sometimes we’ve got a little charge a little extra on that install right maybe we’re maybe we’re some kind of installers at a house usually yeah you know I usually you know a little up charge on here they never know if that’s type of wall whatever right you throw that test at me it’s my duty if I’m the type of person that’s going to report you for skimming money from the customers then I should tell you like they man that’s not cool now yeah now those customers that you know here’s my view is those customers that we’re out there trying to do this install for they had to work hard for that money I don’t want to be taking it from them mmm now you kind of know yeah you better not be doing that in front of me you is as opposed to me smiling and going along with your joke and then three months later I report you know I had turnover report to the boss man yeah so I don’t think that’s very ethical evil yeah it’s kind like a Mack Lee a little bit of a back yeah now are there cases of course where somebody’s doing something that’s just outrageously unethical and you didn’t know about it or something you pretty much know though you can tell when people are doing shady things yeah so so I think that that is something okay so let me let me let me close this bot or at least make a point of this plot my point of this thought is it’s the same thing that happens while we’re people don’t like to have hard conversations so it’s an easy conversation when you say you know those customers never know where their money goes and it’s only 12 bucks of thing and it’s no big deal the easiest thing for me to do is to smile and say oh yeah yeah that’s the easy and and and that’s not that big of a deal right it gets so much harder the further we go down that road it gets harder and harder and harder because then you start saying hey you know it’s only you know we’ve been skimming like 12 bucks guess what they never notice this other charge either and I can get them for $62 mmm and then all of a sudden it’s a harder conversation so have the hard conversation earlier it’ll make it easier for you so that being said now how do we escalate above you in the chain of command first of all my goal is to not escalate above you in the chain command my goal is to actually raise the situation to you and bring it up to you and say hey echo you know the way we’ve been doing this job you know I think we should do two different way if it’s a better way to do it I think there’s a better way to treat the customer whatever whatever the thing is better way to attack this target whatever the thing is and I’m gonna have that conversation with you like two three four or five times to try and get you to listen to me now if the conversation doesn’t work I’m gonna escalate it even further you know what I’m gonna do I’m gonna actually do a little write-up on the right appoint paper let me say echo also listen thinking about what we’re doing how we’re hitting is target or how we’re loading out our guys or whatever and I’m going to write you I’m gonna laid out frequently out what my plan is what the cost benefits are and make that very clear to you so that way I’m giving you every ample opportunity to listen to what I’m saying right and I’m probably even going to say hey maybe we should run this by you know the boss mmm to see what they think because if you just keep disagreeing with me that’s you know cool can I you mind if I bring us the boss and see what he thinks yeah now what are you gonna say to that most most the immediate SAR not going to be happy but I’m giving you a heads up yeah cuz I’m just trying to play open and it kind of doesn’t it kind of make them reflect to where it’s like hey I’m gonna you know bring so by there what do you say no don’t bring that to the boss yes I God it makes it real over that they’re not doing correct yeah so so yeah you say and you might get a boss you might get a boss because yeah bring it to him he’s gonna say the same thing I’m telling you and then you go maybe I’m wrong yeah wrong about this procedure or maybe I’m wrong about how we’re gonna tack this target but it is and also this is a hard conversation to have the hard conversation to say someone man can we just bring us the boss er and and and again I’m not saying you say hey I’m gonna bring this to the boss right say hey would you mind if I got his opinion would you mind if I see what she said about this and that way we’re we’re not saying I’m going to the boss go ahead over your head you can’t stop me no that’s not want to talk about so there’s that the other thing that you so that’s that’s sort of a direct approach with your immediate boss which starts by the way with an indirect approach to being right Hanako you know I was thinking about the way we’re hitting these targets wouldn’t be smart maybe if we hit them from over here do you think that would work and now we’re just open up a conversation we’ve done that I can also go indirect with your boss right so so your direct boss who’s now two up above me in the chain right I can go in direct with him at the water fountain right ill hey oh yeah thanks but I’ll see everything’s going great yeah doing a great job yeah I work at yeah I’m on echos team yeah yeah I know it’s really good it’s good it’s a tough mission but you know we’re we’re always exploring new ways studios we’re looking at some other options I was thinking one another way to hit those targets – kind of like coming in from this direction oh that’s all I did was just drop a little plant a little seed you know had that conversation come up and I’m just gonna that’s what I’m gonna do plant the little seeds and try and get them to maybe say all that sounds like a really good idea what did echo think of that I you know actually I haven’t talked to echo about it in full detail but I will naga by a man that boss asked me about this and he was mentioned you know I mentioned this other way of doing it and he thought it might be good idea and I just want to give you heads up in case he says anything I didn’t really have a chance you know whatever so we’re just playing the game a little bit then we write that maneuvering that line I just want to give you the heads up I feel like that’s like real good when someone says it is however it also gets it’s also a way of saying hey I ratted you out I ratted you out if anyone what it’s followed with it’s like hey just want to give you a heads up the boss you know asked me about this and I didn’t know how to respond so I said this and he’d come and talk to you so I just wanted to give you heads up that’s different hey just to give you a heads up I talked to the boss earlier today I told them what your deal is I like that good for you so yeah there’s all kinds of shades of grey there as well and you know I worked for for a while I was the Admirals aide and so I and I work for a really great guy great Admiral who I had a really good relationship with you know and if I needed something he was going to give it to me and so when I was at asking a commander which is what was – what job I went to immediately when I got done working for the Admiral I literally had a direct line to the Admiral because I had his cell phone number I had his office number and if I wanted to call him he wanted to talk to me because we were friends but that doesn’t mean that I went to him and he knows it all kinds of you know I didn’t do that no I never took advantage of that in at all and was always professional but there is this little story we’re as odd as this might sound we’re getting ready to go on deployment and we needed a what’s called a large-format color printer yeah and it prints out big pieces of paper large format and you need it because you need to make battle map yeah and you need a good one because when you honor an operation every single guy in the platoon has that map so you could have you might need 8 10 12 15 30 you might need 30 color laminated maps to go out on the mission and for whatever reason I think we had one it was kind of crappy and the boss the Admiral you know I talked to him before I was going on deployment I don’t know if he called me or I ran into him or whatever and he’s the Admiral in charge of everything and he’s just you know getting a feel for what’s going on and he says um you know hey you everything you need for deployment he knew I was leaving in a couple days or a couple week couple weeks and I said yeah you know sir we’re good to go you know I’m alright now believing I’m just waiting on a printer gotta get one was a large format printers for battle maps but I wasn’t at work we’re rockin and rollin and like that afternoon I got back to my office and the Commodore so now it’s two bosses above my immediate boss of the SEAL team and one guy below the Admiral we don’t have like a message for me she’s like hey and luckily I was friends with a I guess you need a printer let me know what kind it is like thanks for the heads up and all that a sorry sir I just solve in the kwik-e-mart or whatever but uh but yeah you know you you gotta you gotta you don’t want to abuse that stuff at all and you gotta got to be smart about it it always is I’m telling you it’s always it’s it’s not good to skip the chain of command it really isn’t it’s not gonna if generally is not going to benefit you in general gonna put you in a bad situation it’s going to give you left leverage with your immediate boss because if I went above the change command on you even with you get redirected by our boss you are pissed yeah and you’re going to you’re going to sabotage yeah it’s like it’s like really it’s a version of going behind someone’s oh for sure it is yeah and it almost even feels like you and if you tell them it feels like all your going up up my head yeah yeah I’m a that it’s a really it’s a really it’s a tough one yeah you got to use caution with that one and also I’ll tell you what else it is it’s it’s an easy it appears to be the easy way out like if you’re not listening me all comms could go both the chain of command instead of me influencing you explaining to you writing point papers to you building a relationship with you so that you trust me instead of doing all those things that take time and effort and tact we’re gonna skip the chain of command until your boss that’s that’s another negative about it it’s a cop-out you shouldn’t need to do it I can’t like that printer story I just told it like other than that of me going above the chain of command and that was almost a comical thing like I said I was friends with the Commodore too who always took great care of me and was laughing when he left the message echo thanks for the heads up you know he wasn’t mad when he said that he was you know he was laughing because here I was getting ready to fly to Iraq and what I want is a printer that’s what we need which can tell you how dialed in we were and how much great gear we had because the only thing that was left that we needed was a printer you know that’s where I was at I got older everything we needed but I needed printer so you went above it and I get it for the printer but you got to you know other than that it’s really hard for me to think of other times in my naval career where I went above someone in the chain of command it didn’t happen you know I’m gonna take the time to build a relationship with my immediate boss and they’re gonna do what I wanted to do yeah they’re gonna give me what I wanted to give me they’re going to support me the way I need to get support it that’s what I’m gonna do yeah that’s leading up the chain of command skipping the chain of command is in really leadership yeah so try not to do it kind of like when you’re a kid and you’re you got to deal with your older brother or something but instead of dealing with them you go and tattle on them something like that Neal yeah no it’s the same same similar thing not that my little brother tattled on me ever it’s like yeah interesting how you and it seems like this is a common theme to how you’re like you want to try the most and the best you can to deal with it yourself like the most for sure like only begin own it I mean just like how you were saying how like if you gotta fire someone you know where you want to get to the point where you would in the beginning yeah like I can’t like just let them do the wrong thing yeah that’s cool let them do it for years and then be like you know what you’re fired because of all these wrong things and you didn’t even bring it and I think about this too like on the unethical things you you might be again I’m gonna walk a fine line here but you might not recognize you might not recognize that what you’re doing is unethical you might be like hey Jocko you know what I do is I just I always hit everyone with this little extra $12 charge you know no big deal no one ever notices it and you know we’re working hard and you might just hey man it gives you food for your kids and you’re working on a bunch of rich people’s houses so they can afford 12 bucks and it’s not that big of a deal to you it may be somebody that you started working for did the same thing that’s kind of just a standard operating procedure yeah where’s the house like man you know what that’s not good you know that’s actually it might not seem like a big deal but you’re taking money you know you know that puts money on your table gives you feed your kids and taking money off their table yeah you know and whether they’re rich or not money’s money and I don’t think you I don’t feel like we should be doing you know I mean I can might awaken you and get your ethics back on track and you might be a good dude cuz just cuz someone was skimming some money doesn’t mean they’re horrible person right it means that they went down the wrong path just because someone goes down the wrong path doesn’t mean they can come back big doesn’t mean they cannot come back to the right path man if I was if I was you know executed every time I did something that was stupid or bad or you know I shouldn’t have done I would have died a thousand deaths by now right we grow up and we learn these things we become better people but we only become better people we only learn these things if somebody teaches them to us yeah now we can learn the hard way which is you know all of a sudden someone looks at you and goes away what’s this charge for twelve bucks and then they pull up all your receipts for the last five years you’ve been working here and then they realize you’ve stolen money from the company and sold money from these customers and they’re going to prosecute you because stealing over X amount of dollars is a felony you know what I mean so then you learn your lesson but that’s not the lesson we want to learn so having those tough conversations like you’re talking about having the upfront and whether it’s Europe we right whether it’s counseling somebody whether it’s dealing with you know my boss who I want to tell like hey I think there’s a better way to do this any of those the earlier you do them the easier that are to have and the longer you wait could be with them the harder they get yeah so also too it’s just an overall help like I don’t know it’s hard to not draw the analogy not the knowledge about the comparison between uh like your boss and subordinates type situation and parenting kids you know like for sure just like are you saying sometimes people don’t know necessarily that it’s unethical or they don’t know it’s that unethical or someone’s that that’s that’s it I mean in my situation with kids like they don’t know essentially they don’t know better you know like I don’t know you take a permanent pen and you draw all over the walls here are four or five years old and you’re like yeah sure I’ve been drawing on paper this whole time so there’s no reason for me to think sure I should you’re on the walls but there’s really nothing to tell me not so they do it and then they go get like beat or something never just yelled at or something some some punishment straight-up punishment instead of you know okay you didn’t know that you have to know this you know it’s like that kind of oh I got a higher SLO story we were I was going through Officer Candidate School and there’s a manual and you’re going through officer cadet school I can’t remember whether it’s but it’s all the rules of officer cadet school everything you this our uniform supposed to be this is the way your locker supposed to be these are the way you stand in line at the chow hall although every single rule is in this book and I know what it’s called so you live by the code of this book that’s very specific rule so and there was a kid who was going through Officer Candidate School with us and he was from another country he’d been raised another country and became an American citizen but he was from another country and grew up in a really poor you know a really poor kid so good for him I mean he had achieved a incredible amount finishing college going to Officer Candidate School is awesome but he had some habits from growing up in the third world that were a little bit different for you know for Americans and one of the things that he would do is he would urinate in the shower and and not just while he was taking a shower but when you come back from a class or something all you know you everyone have to go to the bathroom at the same time and so you know guys would go in and fill up the urinals and then there’s nowhere to piss what are you gonna do oh he would just go in the shower and it’s a big open shower just go in there piss right in the drain like it was not like toilet shelves yeah so anyhow or whatever and one of the American kids and I’m calling kids these guys are all you know actually we had a bud you know some of them were new kids fresh out of college the kid the the kid that was urinating in the shower was fresh out of college and one of the older guys who was like me was a prior enlisted guy he came to me and he said hey man this kids urinating in the shower like all the time and I said I said okay well we know run the water he said man I got to get the exact I’ve he’s like you know my squads in charge of cleaning the showers and so these are my guys on the on the ground that’s cleaning up his piss it ain’t cool and I was like all right cool I’ll talk to him so I went as to hey man I say hey you know officer candidate whatever can I can I talk to you for a second he goes yeah and he comes in my room and said hey man you um you know you’re pissin in the shower just wait for a tile –it and he looked at me like I was telling him that he shouldn’t breathe air right he was like well why and I said I said well no because you know your get this and where everyone walks around and and he goes yeah but the water to drain yes all night in he goes and I said no it’s not he just just don’t do it he goes it’s not in the rule book is what he said to me and I go what do you mean he goes the a named the manual he goes it doesn’t say in there that you can’t piss in the challenge I’ll go ahead and tell you get piss on my floor either or in my bed but I want you doing that but it was interesting my point is that his viewpoint was like this was totally normal and he was a great kid most hard worker but for him he was just like what are you talking about why wouldn’t I piss in the shower all the all the pictures are taken I’m gonna go piss in the shower well next question let’s move on I got work to do and so I had to explain to him hey man listen it’s it’s a little different and people that are cleaning the showers don’t want to be on their hands and he’s in your piss yeah so and he said okay he listened to me and but I could see that he listened to me but he didn’t 100% agree with me right he was like okay yeah he kind of did that you know it was one of those where I I’m trying to explain to him the why but it just it’s like you’re saying I he literally didn’t understand that that was not acceptable from a hygienic point hygienic all right I get at any hygienic from a hygienic point from a you know a moral or a morale point of the dough yeah come around there cleaning up so yeah that was uh that was good times you ever seen that Seinfeld you want Seinfeld ever and what that is very I know it he just caught when I guys gets caught taking a leak in the shower at the gym you know go to the gym take a shower and then it’s like you know they catch you and they you’re ostracized basically I think they even took his man I don’t know but he’s like you you believe this there whatever you know they’re they’re mad at me for you know pissing in the shower at the gym he’s like he’s like why why are you confused that they’re mad at you kind of thing and he’s like it’s all pipe so don’t forget I got to defend it and you can kind of see we’re in a small teeny tiny way if you don’t think about it yeah why not it’s going down the drain you’re not pissing on let other people hey I was deployed on a ship and I was an officer as an ensign so I just moved up from the from the troop birthing where I used to be with the enlisted spine so we used to proudly call ourselves it was when I was up in the in the officer area in the what they call those area officer country she’s a little science officer country you know no enlisted allow a bit elitist yeah totally lead us so I’m in there and I’m living with we actually ate four other seals seal officers in this room if one of the seal officers you know with the sink in the room but no bathroom so you just had a sink you brush your teeth shave whatever but if you want to look about for me to go down the hallway where the showers and the pisser’s were and so one night I’m you know I’m like get stirred awake by some noise and I see one of my fellow officers is pissing in sink right and sink and you know I was like hey man what are you doing am i walking all the way down to the down to the bathroom no like yeah yeah actually yes you are that’s where I brush my teeth home and he and he was the same way he was kind of surprised like what’s wrong with you yeah just piss and it’s the same pipes but right look now do me a favor just walk on down there what if he urinated in sink regularly but every single time when he was done he scrubbed the sink with like lights on stuff bro it’s all psychological at that well it’s not so I just like illogical but that doesn’t even make it worth it no you might as well walk down there right I dig it but like what if L is this is thing I mean well how would you feel about it don’t piss in my sink Yeah right it’s like it’s like it’s like a muddy call like a customary almost for reasons of course yeah the reason us don’t piss it off but you guys pick one actually in college we play football with it like a nice facility to at you H but the showers were like guys would do it all the time and but the showers were shaped different we’re like let’s say you’re facing the shower right or you’re facing the wall at the bottom of the wall was like a gutter trench a trench yeah so went down so if you did and one guys would even go to a you weren’t ever standing in it you know so if you’re standing in it that’s like of obvious you know but but guys would do it and when I first thought I was like dang you’re just openly doing it like one of the actually mentions name is for him like I mention cuz didn’t shower but he’s like talking to me while he’s pissing in the shower almost like it was a straight-up toilet it was I said he’s like yeah I’ll talk to me I’m like alright that’s how so again it’s more like the ethics of the like the culture almost it’s what it seems like yeah what it seems like to me is don’t piss in my sink I agree to tell the other think is difficult ballgame yeah shower okay understood right like you said it goes down the drain and it’s there’s water flowing all over it yeah you’re washing it off any washing off the soap coming over it but uh you know what I got a good idea just as a general overall rule yeah piss on the toy yeah I try the toy yes we’d better do that one yeah it’s the same way and probably not going to brush your teeth in the toilet you and I’m that’s what the think is now if you want to fit if you wanna brush your teeth a toilet have at it I won’t be mad at you I I’ll be mad at you Beth I don’t know if I can hang out with you as much or whatever but yeah I understand it makes sense and what I’m asking about it’s not oil it from talking about skipping the chain of command oh yeah that’s right because the guy knows yes Officer Candidate School yeah you got us into the shower you had to let him not you’ve got to have the card conversations I wonder what ever happened him he’s a hard work where we see from um somewhere like Vietnam or or Laos or something maybe Thailand some Asian Asian country Southeast Asian country hard worker and smart yeah I would today yeah my opinion about taking a leak in the shower is you shouldn’t do it but if like like this guy who’s like oh that’s normal that doesn’t like totally surprised me though ya know it was that way surprised me but makes sense that guys didn’t like it though for sure next question and and and don’t skip the chain of command if you can avoid it if ya don’t read either that’s a yeah stick anything going behind someone’s back it just it just like how you said it’s like sometimes you can’t repair that you know it’s hard to repair it harder to repair hello how do you rank your longevity in your priorities longevity this is talking about staying alive for as long as possible and of course I mean I want to live Oh like howdy damn right yeah yeah how do i personally that’s the way it was court the question is actually directed at me Jocko willing question for the podcast how do you rank your longevity and your priorities longevity being how long you’re going to live for and for me I mean obviously longevity has some level of importance I do want to live for a little while longer but and and I think that generally my lifestyle and my focus on health and fitness in a broad way aligned with living for a little longer so you know working out and all that stuff is good but there’s also an extreme and I don’t know if you know this I’m how much you know about this or if you’ve ever read about it but there’s an extreme side of longevity of trying if you if your goal in life was to live as long as possible there’s an extreme version of that do you know about this I don’t know how so well one of the biggest things is you you do calorie restriction a severe restriction yeah you’re talking like massive calorie restriction and that’s one of them you and and believe it or not you do extremely low levels of physical activity yeah right you you basically if your goal was to live as long as possible you would want to live basically in a bubble yeah and do nothing yeah but but eat very little and and just lay there no jiu-jitsu then no surfing no lifting heavy weights none of that stuff now when you’re in that mode of longevity pure longevity you are not prepared for anything in the actual world right yeah because your heart can only beat so many times and it the less you use it the longer it’s gonna be lasting but and I’m sure I have that not quite right but the problem is if you’re not in good shape when you get surprised your heart can’t handle that’s the kind of people add up heart attacks the heart can’t handle all this madness when it comes so I’m not going there it’s not worth it for me to for me to live my whole life as a sedentary person half starved and completely unprepared for anything to happen to me outside of my bubble is not happening I’m not gonna live that way so where does it rank in my priorities I think it’s it sure it’s an important thing but I think my general lifestyle aligns with enough that I won’t think about it as much and I think overall living life is more important to me than just living yeah so makes gotta live life what if magic like a magic wizard guysss imv you know gatekeeper of your whole life whatever your life and death situation he’s a grim reaper that’s what and he said I know when you’re gonna die you know you can’t help it this I just know the future whatever I will give you 20 extra years right now you’re you know for something years old the day you’re going to die whenever that is I can’t tell you that maybe 90 80 whatever but I’ll give you 20 more years of fully functional life but you gotta stop to introduce right now you can never do it ever again I probably choke him out next question but otherwise you’d be just as functional you can lift you can surf you can you know you can get after it in in every other way just know Jiu Jitsu I don’t know martial arts in any way you know what I would double leg him and then I would pass his guard and then I would choke it up yeah yeah make sense and I take his sickle yeah can i tree the world so a jiu-jitsu free life is not life that’s what you’re saying I think the minute you start restraining yourself from doing things that you want to do you you need to take serious considerations in what you’re doing yeah I also think that hypothetical questions like that are completely ridiculous no they’re not they’re mental exercise so my that’s why and then in that case I I will stay with my first answer yeah I agree if the Grim Reaper came to me and maybe an offer I would double leg him I was take him down and I would choke him out there you go I might kill him yeah I might kill that yeah there you go see boom and you can’t do that without you just do so as far as the double leg and choking something up so back to your how you say you know how the lunge evety yeah thing you didn’t know about that actually yeah and it makes sense because that’s a lot of things like if you want to be the safest you possibly can in life right same thing you’re going to live in a bubble with no threats of any disease sterilized bubble no murders no car accidents no nothing never drive never do anything the same thing but you’ll be so safe you’ll be the safest person in the world really yeah but as far as going for living life you know you go one day out on the in the wild you’re dead same thing like if you restrict all your calories no hard physical activity no son you know all this stuff the moment you go to everyday life which is physical in something less we bred for but still physical their son there’s day when you go out there all your go ahead son right so it’s like all or nothing yeah take vitamin D pills yeah the the other thing is we’re calorie restriction is I think and you know I’m reading about this stuff all the time and but you can get a lot of those benefits by doing some intermittent yes fasting for sure yeah and you will feel good on the intermittent fasting yeah 24 48 72 hours that’s the most I’ve done I know and maybe I’ll do some more in the future Tim Ferriss did like seven days okay actually you know I don’t know man it yeah yeah but in see and that’s that almost goes into a hole on it when I did 72 hours on the last time I did it I same thing I’ve done it a couple times now there every time I shall find ya I don’t feel any of this stuff that people talk about yeah well yeah so no I mean it’s this is almost like you hungry for a little while yeah when I do I wasn’t like oh God right I wasn’t gonna die no yeah you were no but you’re talking about a whole different thing people gonna say people are gonna ask on the interwebs to talk more about intermittent fasting no don’t ask me there’s like actual research out there yes go and google it lookup intermittent fasting and read about it don’t ask me I’m the wrong person to ask yeah have smart people yeah and again the intermittent like if you’re talking about nice plump it like 10 000 yes it’s all better oh yeah because it’s true don’t ask me google it and look at these really good research paper there’s all kinds of stuff coming out about it right now now what’s weird about the internet and science in general is in you know there’s a one article that says it’s great you can find two more articles that say it’s horrible you can find three more articles so you can always counter everything yeah I mean although the other split hair is good that’s that but necessarily about science in general it’s more about a specific person’s viewpoint well at least on what they care for sure I’ve done for sure um and especially with diet and health it’s so it’s so ambiguous and so adaptable and stuff like that so but little year if you’re talking about fasting that’s that you talk about something different like you know people fast for a specific reason or even that kind of a general reason but it’s like fasting alone isn’t going to make you achieve whatever it is not doing you know it’s a complete just like lifting like with lifting you need nutrition you need rest you need all the stuff for a specific results and then there’s all kinds of different lifting you know so you can’t just be like oh yeah I want bigger muscles so I’m just gonna lift that’s it no nutrition I’m not going to eat it all or no rest I’m not going to rest at all so the point there is when you go trying to live as long as you possibly can it’s like you have to like that has to be the objective just to live everything else is everything else is out the window so you yeah I don’t I agree with you I don’t think that that’s living necessarily I don’t think there’s too many people that are just on the full online longevity gig yeah but there are some yeah I know I know one who not gonna mention is knee jerk doesn’t meet your Cooksey great big question similar question yeah chuckle prioritize and execute is it wrong to sacrifice health in short-term to accomplish work objectives and how would you make up the time lost so yeah absolutely sometimes you have to sacrifice workouts for health and health for work objectives there’s no doubt that’s life and work in many respects his life and that’s kind of another topic but try and love what you’re doing try and enjoy your job if you don’t because if you enjoy your job then work is life isn’t okay if you hate your job then work is life is not is not a good situation to be in so try and get into things and do something that you enjoy doing and if you don’t enjoy it you’ll find some kind of an exit strategy but that’s another topic going back to this topic is it okay or is it wrong to sacrifice your health in the short term to accomplish long term work objectives and yeah even in the SEAL Teams we did that all kinds of times a lot whether it was in training or formation where our priority our mission or our training takes priority over workouts and over eating healthy and over everything so there’s times where that usually gives 100% focused on some kind of mission and that’s what you’re gonna that’s what you’re going to do and that’s okay that’s what we didn’t seal things and that’s what everyone does and it’s and when you get done with that how do you make up for lost time you do some hard workouts and maybe you go eat super clean or you fast for a little while or whatever it is that get you back on track you just get yourself back on track what you have to watch out for is a pattern a long-term pattern where work takes precedent over health for multiple weeks right multiple weeks and months right if it’s if you’re talking about months we’re in a bad situation like if you go week two weeks where you just were crazy and work was crazy you you know you know your health took a little two went down a couple notches on the priority and a couple weeks goes by and you cook food I’m glad I’ve got through that and the the hard seasons over or the whatever then you know like you know people in the finance world and tax season they’re just busting their ass for two three four straight weeks it’s really hard to understand a ball and you know retail people around Christmastime there were you know there’s everyone’s got the little sick things real estate people in the springtime in the summer starts rolling around their work it’s it’s there’s cyclical things and that’s cool you work hard for two three weeks where you just have to get after it but when that starts turning into months in in multiple weeks and then months and then particular months of your health is taking the backseat we have an issue now that being said there are not too many jobs that consume 23 and a half hours a day of your time they’re just not that many jobs that do that now what in what you might be facing here is you might be blaming your job for you being lazy that that can be happening that’s a strong possibility actually because you can make time for a delay minute workout right 20 minute workout right 20 minute workout like that if you get 20 minutes you get in there shake it out a little bit you do you know a couple hundred burpees go as hard as you can you just got a workout that took you 10 15 20 minutes right well yeah longer than that for me but ya know you see what I’m saying though I do yes fully you get and then if you can do that if you sprint if you ten sprints right doesn’t take you much time did you go go and knock out three four or five sets of pull-ups go knock out a couple hundred pull-ups how long does that take it doesn’t take that long right take you 15 minutes you’re done so then maybe at night you just roll up there you grab your kettlebell you knock out some swings it takes you seven minutes we’re not talking about a bunch of time so are we being lazy cuz we’re not carving out 15-20 minutes half an hour you know a lot of people ask me about what the workouts I do when I’m on the road a lot of times when I’m on the road I fly into a city I get there 11 o’clock at night the next time the next day I’m working with a company at 8 o’clock in the morning and so I my schedule is tight why am I in the hotel room the hotel room gym sucks for for one thing and I’m gonna bang something out quickly you know it’s not going to be an hour workout no it’s going to be like 20 minutes sometimes now sometimes if I have a little extra time maybe I’m not meeting with a company until lunch cool I’m gonna have a nice long workout of course but if it’s I’m due to meet with a CEO for breakfast at 7 o’clock it’s going to be a quick hardcore 12 minute workout and that’s cool so you got to carve that out and this is so you you know make sure that it’s the job that’s doing this to you and not you that’s doing this to you yeah so if it is your job truly true your job is the thing that’s making you unhealthy then you gotta fix it now what you have going for you is that companies want you to be healthy right companies understand the benefit of having healthy employees not just from a Productivity standpoint but from like an insurance viewpoint we if we got out you know we’ve got health coverage for our employees and all of our employees are are sick and lame and lazy and we’re having to pay their medical bills and they can’t work it’s problematic so what you do is you step up and you say hey you know what we don’t have a health and wellness program I want to run it we need a little gym oh it’s going to cost money yes it’s going to cost money but I’m going to save you money in productivity I’m gonna save you money and insurance I’m going to write a point paper on that I’m going to win that one all day long we’re gonna we’re gonna put a gym in the lounge and we’re gonna put we’re going to put some mats in the Delta flow you know times and so we’re gonna do it I think LinkedIn has a jiu-jitsu room you mean little-endian of like the headquarter I saw a picture of they have a jiu-jitsu room good idea yeah you and even have to pay me to work there I got to just you remember free members yeah so you get so go you know step up your company I can now guarantee your company wants you to be healthy so step up maybe take leadership role in forming the health and wellness program for your company get it 20 man my brother’s company you know it rag mop yeah they don’t have a been on Matson in the office but yet yet yeah but I’m working um it’s funny though he’ll know like he’ll do this he’ll encourage people to go to jiu-jitsu you know yeah to the point where they have rash guards even yeah we have a pretty good representation from fragment at the gym yeah you know I call everyone from frag mom that trains you and I nicknamed want all of them Frank mob everyone crack mob that summer oh that’s their actual name thank you very much Jim anymore your name is frack mom yeah so but but that’s good because it becomes this culture that kind of catches on you know where and this is just jujitsu it can be kind of anything CrossFit or even such Spink I don’t know whatever but just is kind of good because it’s one of those ones that you can kind of come and talk about it and you know it joke throughout or you choke me out kind of thing you can choke your boss if you know it’s like that kind of stuff it’s real on your fall and they even have like rat like I said rash guards the rash guards like if you work for fragment it’ll say um staff on the back it’ll have like you know they do like a I and yeah you know develop and stuff like that so the the staff one will be um what does it have on the sleeves like digital digital circuitry yeah and then the other one which says will say security that’s like you know friends of the friends of the family whatever else between the hardware in the software rasterizer right right that’s what is exactly what anyone so the soft the guys who actually work for frag mom have the software rash guards that has like circuitry and the design in the not the the hardware oh no no sorry the software head is that little zeros and one like me is look oh yeah yes exactly and the security guys who were anyway nonetheless that’s kinda that’s like a good look because that’s not really an official program in fragment or in a company it’s just it’s kind of the influential element of the culture you know where it’s like and you know my brother he he he pushed that you know not kind of overtly I guess but it’s more it was like you guys have to do this it’s kind of like any you should come down I’ll give you a rash guard it okay cool and guys and it was funny there’s a time there’s a bunch of fragment in there just going interesting but yeah that helps that it does well for sure now the thing is if none of that works if you give your company’s just dragging you down and and you’ve checked and double-checked and triple-checked your own discipline or lack of discipline and you realize that it’s the work that is bringing down your health in that case you got to follow the procedure you got to find an exit strategy create an exit strategy save up your money line things up get the ducks and row in the next queue because your health is going to be more important than everything else you know then everything else all that the money you could possibly make if you’re going to sacrifice a year and a half two years and you get to grind it out like an investment banker that shows up on Wall Street is going to grind for two years and their health is going to suffer but they’ve got a goal at the end of that a understood sometimes you got to do but you got to at the end at two three years even though you’re not there you’re not where you want to be and you’re starting to decline in health to get some stuff you won’t be able to recover from so make your make your decision then you come up with an exit strategy and move on do something else yeah and health health and even like Fitness is is this thing it’s called systemic versus direct you know as far as being beneficial so exercise is like one of the few things in your little hierarchy of like needs or whatever that affects everything else like if you if you’re an unhealthy person versus a healthy person the healthy person will be better at everything else it’ll be better making money he’ll be better at them all relationships he’ll be better obviously health-wise in an obvious I mean obviously if you’ve got some guy that’s brilliant and really out of shape versus a guy that’s an idiot who’s in great shape the brilliant person is probably going to make more money and do better in the long run of me we’re talking you have to put them on a level intellectual eggs yeah you’re talking about the same per oh yeah then for sure for sure but how your person was going to win but it so can compare that to the directly like will people be like a making money important so it’s more important than health but you think making money doesn’t improve your health making money doesn’t necessarily improve friendship or romantic relationships necessarily in fact a lot of times it damages them a lot of the times health doesn’t damage anything it improves everything there’s not anything that I can think of any way that health makes worse yeah or being more fit makes worse get healthy stay healthy yeah stay on the program you know what um and it’s one of those things to men those like working out when you’re on the road that’s a big one right it’s hard to like get a solid workout on the road because you’re busy or whatever but there’s who’s gonna sound crazy but when you think about it’s not not crazy but some kind of unrealistic where okay so this is what I’ve been doing recently when we were into New York for the muster and like all these awesome before I go all research jiu-jitsu gyms and fitness gyms where I can work out because like I said the hotel gym is like if you don’t have anything else in here but you still have time okay good but research where are the gyms and prepare like okay how long is it going to take me to get there work out get back all this stuff and then you fit it in your schedule the other thing if you don’t wanna fit in your schedule then don’t work out and if the help is not for you then but if you’re like oh your asses you know this kind of question where you know is it wrong to sacrifice health and all the stuff that means you’re concerned about health then be concerned about health you can fit it in very surprised what you can fit in just like you don’t have to get that good of a workout but you’re fitting it in but here’s the thing you can fit in a good workout you just gotta make you for that you gotta plan a psychological winter like I if I’m going to speak somewhere he at a minimum I’ll do couple hundred burpees before it goes where I wouldn’t wake up yeah that just get the blood flowing you’re ready to rock and roll yeah but at the muster I there was no break in the program I would do 24-hour Fitness I’ve rolled a hard one a hanzo’s and then we rolled that at the muster which was it hard necessarily but there’s a lot of rolls in there and so man it was there was no break in the program but the point is because I knew that I was I made time exactly right it was important and that I’ll say it’s important like it’s the number one priority I’m saying it’s part of the the whole what I’m doing it is not part of what you’re doing and things don’t see healthy then don’t make it part of what you’re doing I vote against you on that one I say make time be healthy yeah I think so too that’s my opinion but I’m saying I help you I are exactly like like yeah you’re saying I have time yeah my job is so whatever if you straight up don’t have time then you don’t have to help is not for you you chose everything else that we’re helping and that’s up to you I’m just gonna go ahead and go around Libya that most people you can make time that’s the point that’s my Waco a half hour earlier yeah because you don’t you know when you really don’t have time yeah yeah yeah yeah like one time Virant two or three months ago we were we came in and we skipped jiu-jitsu to record the podcast right and I was like man we skip jiu-jitsu to record the primaries because we had no choice right it was like we didn’t do that we weren’t got a flight in the afternoon and we just had to do it yes and so yeah occasionally that those things happen yes we’ll consider that all right so it’s either skip you get to one day and get the podcasts out or don’t we could ease we could have chosen train jujitsu don’t do the podcast but at that point given all the circumstances the podcast that one day it’s keeping you Giselle one day it’s important for that one day because it’s not like we’re giving up jujitsu completely for this body not never actually holding the line with the podcast exactly right and that was important that day because we were kind of faced with that thing what do you give up so what that’s the question what do you give up you give up watching a you know a movie and room service do you give that up give that out of Schism like I said hey if you don’t have yes we don’t I go to hotels I don’t even turn on the TV yeah man I don’t imagine you because I don’t have TV at home and so I don’t know a year or two ago I I went to some hotel and I turned on the TV and next thing I know you know an hour and a half went by and I was watching some movie from 1986 going you’ve got to be kidding me turn it off you know what I always do I hang my chalk bag on the TV that’s my standard operating a teacher I hang my dog is you know they’re all the thin TVs when you travel when I travel so you bring your chocolate yes I brought bag I bring sweatbands for my rest to the sweat I bring a chalk bag I bring my little notebook diagram a mobility wad ball to do some mobility work and I bring some 1 inch tubular nylon that I used to stretch dan yeah bring your suit originally like we went to the muster I brought rings with me yeah saw that good because I knew I was gonna be on a tight timeline and he was gonna have to you know get some workouts done and I travelled a little bit heavier yeah because I normally travel really light but I had an extra bag so the no rings amen no factor you were there for a while too yeah a couple weeks yeah I was in Austria and then came back to New York and then to New York to Texas so there’s a road trip yeah thanks e and you made it happen and you’re busier than the normal person in my opinion in some yeah but again man I I think you know how that old saying I think I don’t know you might have said Matt have been Henry I don’t know where I saw it but it’s like there is no free time or spare time or you know work that there’s just time you know it’s one of those are that is wrongs that’s a really a quote yeah so it’s like time so there’s no spare time there’s no free time there’s just like this time yes so you better just get on it so unless you’re like Peter at II remember when he was talking about what Peter Thiel was talking about like there is no time you’re just working the whole time like you can’t know what he’s at med school yeah yeah so if you’re in that situation then that may affect you to be like hey I’m not doing this part of my med medical program you know usually I have a side of the road to a park to fall asleep recover because yeah that’s in nine days yeah so there are exceptions for sure but again like if you’re into doing room service or you’re you know you’re watching the game or you’re stopping at the bar or doing anything I’m not even saying necessarily destructive things I’m just saying things that aren’t conducive to your quote-unquote work that’s keeping you so busy or whatever that are essential if you’re doing these other things then there’s where you can make time how can one ever have time if you don’t take that so like it next question my wife and kids are quick to anger sometimes it’s explosive like a Moab mother of all bombs other times it’s a slow grinding war of attrition being a student of your podcast I’ve learned the worst strategy is to directly attack their fortified emotional position seems like this is a good opportunity to employ a flanking maneuver how to effectively flank their anger without appearing weak okay first of all flank yourself because that appearing weak thing that’s pretty much in your head really it is slow generally in your head and that’s the first thing you need to do is that’s your ego talking when you don’t want to when you don’t want to when they hit you with something that they’re angry at the thing that’s hitting back is ego that’s what’s hitting back so first thing get of yours okay I’m going to check my ego right now because I’m going to win the long war in fact you have to be careful when you stay calm when everyone else is angry you have to actually be careful not to come across as aloof or you know arrogant yeah like when people are getting mad okay okay for instance if your wife is super mad about something and you show no emotions and you don’t come out at all they get matter bad right yes you don’t even care about this you know so no act nice oh you got a get a get a little bit you know I’m not saying out you know a little bit of a I get it right but then which one do is absorb them oh they wanna get mad cool absorb take the screaming give the head nod of understanding in a only emotional way that pretty much communicates that I understand you’re mad at them I’m listening and I hear you you know I get it and let them get it out of their system this let them get it out of system then let them calm down and then after you’ve given them the time to kind of calm down and settle down and I mean it’s a longer than you think mmm it’s it’s longer than you think let them but when you think they’re calm wait on extra 45 minutes if not two hours probably two hours because they’re not calm to be safe they just stop screaming right so and then what you do is and then which gives you kind of take it on yourself you’re gonna own it right and you say something like hey you know that thing that made you mad I want to make sure it doesn’t happen again I you know what what can I do better to make sure that you don’t get mad about that right you take you take ownership of that what do I need to adjust and what exactly is it that that I did that frustrated what is it that frustrated you what can I do to stop it maybe it wasn’t me maybe you’re mad at the printer but you know how can we fix that because I don’t want you to do and then you know so you have that kind of conversation and you know you’re going to slide something to actually and their tax Lee because again you’re still dealing with like you know possible flare-ups and they’re just asking so you know but you but you say something like that you know we both know that nobody benefits when people lose their temper right I mean we got to be careful you know one it’s not doesn’t do us any good when people lose a temple yeah everyone knows that right you slide those things in there you’re given that kind of little mini flexure indirectly about what’s happening and then when you have other conversations now we’re in just a normal day-to-day thing you drop things about temper you know you talk about temper be well you know it’s a weakness and it’s no one makes good decisions when they have them in these are temporary so some of the dumbest things I’ve ever done was when I loved you know everyone knows that be either you say you start sliding those things in there that it’s bad for your decision-making it’s bad for relationships it’s bad for your health it’s bad for life mmm and again you’re not directly saying these things you’re subliminally saying either you know it’s man I remember one time I lost some little dumbest things I ever did when I lost when I kicked the wall and I broke my toe and I put a hole in the wall and the landlord came that’s when I hate when I lose my temper mm-hmm and you start getting them in the you them thinking about it over time and this is the thing it’s a long war and there’s going to be relapses along the way but you got to just hold the wine keep it steady absorb and then Frank gently to get them there so it starts out recognizing where they’re at and what their temper does to him temper is crazy yeah you see people lose their temper it’s it’s a total loss of control yeah if there’s no lost control and it just doesn’t do anybody any good and when you see someone that really loses their temper you’re like what is wrong yeah come on yeah and when I was a kid nice to lose my temper and at some point I just realized I forget what it was I forget what made me hurt something my dad said to me there’s something about you know something along those lines of like yeah you lose your temper like a little baby oh loss of control okay so you you when you realized it that’s because of family a dad my dad said to me something along the lines of light you know I think he was referring athlete or something someone that just had no emotions and how that was impressive yeah girls are you that is impressive massive control yeah ones no nothing is gonna make me mad yeah doesn’t matter what’s going on around me yeah yeah it is like a baby you know like I said you know like babies they cry and whatever because they don’t know how to talk so if they knew how to talk and control everything they’d really like hey I’m cold or hey I’m hungry but they don’t know how to talk so why do you adults go crazy and cry because they’re babies because they don’t know how to talk if they if they cry for every little thing they’re babies yeah they don’t know how to talk I said actually you know what under um any depends it depends how much control and all these are little variables but it’s like the front part of your brain that’s a decision-making like the conscious like oh okay I’m gonna make this justice conscious decision right the last word your brain to develop by the way and so the conscious decision may I can get a front good thing like frontal lobe or text you know something and it happens and it fully develops around age 25 by the way so if you’re 24 23 22 21 and so a put simply it’s like okay my actions now how do they affect the future you know so in one way or another it’s going to be kind of surrounded on that little Primus small over so otherwise you’re just going on straight auto mode however you’re however you feel that’s going to influence not totally control but that’s the thing that’s going to influence your behavior so time to stress your frontal cortex start to shut down a little bit hunger shut down a little bit up hormonal situations for guys and girls also you lose your temper more that’s where hangry comes from hangry is one of them you know and it’s like all these things like empathy lots of like all this stuff where your decisions just aren’t that though yeah and so and when I say hormonal like that’s why you get roid rage you know look good because like guys if they’re on steroids that’s their hormones are up or girls PMSing it’s like a real you know premenstrual syndrome is like real their hormones are all so her one time my wife started when she was pregnant she started crying during an AT&T commercial negligent crime the auto mode like oh my girl what’s wrong with her some of those are kind of sad it’s emotional little Esther why were you crying during Hawaii five-o oh man I’m telling you they’re trying they’re trying to make it deep man that show you’re watching not easy anyway Nullah um it’s back to losing your temper and stuff it is a weak thing so it’s kind of obvious especially from the outside to see that look losing your temper is not cool and a lot of people they think it’s cool because it feels good ya know feels good when you’re a little kid you respect it you see someone lose their temper me are you serious yeah horrified oh yeah like turning into Superman right yeah I mean shared but bright you’re not feared though you look stupid then you look dumb yeah if that’s the message to convey to your kiss yeah losing your temper is stupid yeah and and then some people they’re like you can tell they say that stuff with a little bit of pride you know it’s just me and my temperament whatever is gonna get me in trouble and we’re all on it yeah you’re not a problem a hothead man that’s Naomi that should be that I know you you know I wish I didn’t that should be if you say I just have a temper that should be the equivalent of you saying I don’t know how to read it should be that hey nothing wrong with it you can get past it and you know whatever I’m not going to judge you for it but it’s not good it’s not a good state to be in do you someone can’t control your temper just like it’s not a good state to be in as a grown adult to not know how to read no judgment but you solve that problem that’s a B if you’re having like if your kids have a temper yeah and they’re easy to anger it’s because chances are I don’t know everybody of course but chances are they got it from the parents keep in mind you’re one of those parents I’m not saying I’m not saying that you have a temper not saying you don’t what I am saying sure just have a temper your wife has a temper you got it really honestly evaluate do I have the temper and understand that because the kids they’re just these little seeds of beings were like hey how do I act I don’t know how to act all act out you know just Holly I’m going to cry this is my default and just get cry when I think Jennifer have a temper and show that knack that way the kids will learn it I’m going to learn it so there’s some there’s something like genetic though I well maybe I guess agree we don’t know if it’s read it or not but there are some we know the father has a bad temper and then the kid has a bad temper yeah but there’s no temper gene so what it is is there’s a genetic situation for sure that you’re more apt to not be able to control certain parts of or not not be able to control but with control less you know certain parts of your brain or chemistry is going to make you lean towards certain types of behavior like impulsive behavior or something like that there is that for sure but again and when you’re a kid you’re just looking for how do I act I don’t know I’m growing up I don’t even know how to act so the first thing you’re going to look at is the people but the authority figures in front of you the parents if the parents aren’t there who are they looking to I don’t know the guy next door the guy on TV the guy up the street the guy in the music video whoever I don’t know whoever is doing better than me that’s it so if you’re the parent and you’re losing your temper all the time kids going to lose their temper dad that’s how what they’re going to learn how to act so point there is if you lose your temper or if your kids are losing income you start with yourself because you know the kind you know kind there’s certain things that’s real easy to see when someone else does it yeah most things but yeah but is your low yeah you simply don’t well it sounds like this guy here that asked this question he’s saying his wife loses his temper and that could be where the kid is getting the modeling from right and he said he doesn’t now is there a chance that he does too probably I guess so but it sounds like he’s pretty together and he’s saying look I just need to get that to calm down right so yeah in this situation I’d say it’s probably the wife who’s losing your temper and then the kid is imitating or modeling and then we have this scenario happening yeah so what we need to do is explain to everyone in the family that it’s not good we’re not losing our tempers anymore they yeah and the reason I say it too is again I’m not saying he does lose his temper but I am saying that it is a possibility that because if let’s say mean your husband and wife in you have I won’t we’re just broke yeah well we’re you know little wife Lee cook kid me and my wife okay if she loses a temper her temper and I’m taking the direct approach right yeah which i under Negron out evermore but no i’m gonna lose my temper back i’m gonna go fire my fire with fire you raise your voice i’m gonna raise my voice the kids over there in the corner how do I act oh that’s how I act right there that’s a possibility and kids will become anti-social that’s the thing goes on it’s one of the things one of the many things Thank You social I told you about that book called nine games small little book forget the author like pretty clearly and concisely laid out if you have anger issues like what up with that today securities change my whole life low self-esteem again question next unless you want to go oh no you sure next question yes chuckle willing Tech tactics to flank / shift a ferocious analyzer from paralysis to go meaning of what some over things saying or read and it hesitates the landing and planning and planning and planning well there’s a couple things here if the person is above you or below you in the chain of command so if they’re below you in the chain of command you you know you explain to them you say look we don’t need perfection we’re not going to have a 100% solution we don’t have homes and the information that’s a good enough solution we need to move forward let’s execute and you know what I’ll take resisting is go all wrong don’t worry about it I’ll take responsibility for it I’m not going to blame you which is what you’re going to do anyways as a good leader so that’s what you can do for there below you in the chain of command if they’re above you in the chain of command guess what same thing you’re going to count it same thing like a boss we don’t need perfection here look boss we’re not going to get all the information we need we’re not gonna get a hundred percent solution we got a 90 percent solution and let’s go for it and if things do go wrong you can blame me I don’t care so boom the weather that are above your you know below you can decline you might change your tact or your verbage a little bit but the same same overall concept you’ve got to get them to understand that we don’t need perfection we need to move forward and the other thing is you explain the cost of not moving the cost of staying still the cost of being reactive instead of proactive in basically the cost of not being aggressive because that’s what we’re talking about as a lack of aggression and – what does that look like well you explain to them that the longer we sit the better position the enemy gets into the longer we wait the less we know about what is actually happening think about that one the more you sit here and you’re planning the less we know what’s going on out there that things are happening they’re changing they’re evolving the enemy is maneuvering there’s developments on the battlefield or in the marketplace and you don’t even know because you’re sitting in a planning space the longer we wait the less time we have to recover if something does go wrong so if we sit here and plan for 47 days and on the 40th day we step out we start to execute something goes wrong we’re not going to make the 50 day markers we will spend all that time planning so the longer that you’re sitting around the last time you have to recover and adapt and adjust and the longer that you wait while you’re doing planning the less relevant your plan actually becomes so that’s what you need to make people understand now there’s people that are just habitual and chronic ferocious analyzers and those are people you’ve got to watch but you’ve got to continually just get through their head that the more we sit the more the enemy maneuvers and if we let them maneuver on us anymore we’re gonna get killed that’s it pretty easy no it’s not easy it’s a simple concept on that it’s hard to get people out of their own heads just like this like everything else it’s hard for the ferocious analyzer to recognize themselves as that they think they’re doing a good job they think they’re they think they’re actually being thorough and you’re a wild man you’re a cowboy are you crazy yeah no I’m not crazy number one time with my first deployment to Iraq they said hey John this is after I’ve been there for a while they wanted for some reason they wanted to know the minimum requirements for us to go out on an operation and I said I just need of this any of a target and of radio frequency to talk to the local conventional units there and they were like well don’t you need air support on all these other things like no we’ll figure it out mmm just send us yeah we’ll go and there was other things that we would do as we move to a target we align things up and we’d but we would be good yeah but sometimes people wanted to plan out every last detail well and that doesn’t work the details are not going to stay the same the things that you’re planning on are going to change so don’t sit there and plan every last detail is not going to help you man that’s actually a pretty good plan never even thought about how you say if you spend too much time planning you know and then you jump in the game all late it’s like think you have no time to make any adjustment here react yeah oh you better go perfect cuz that’s all that’s the one shot you got at it and guess what it’s not going to go perfect if things don’t go perfect yeah things are not going to go perfect not going to happen no such thing as flawless execution Dave Burke just wrote an article that was on Business Insider I thought it was like flawless execution doesn’t happen yeah you know he was a Top Gun senior instructor for three years he knows about flying and he knows how hard they worked to towards flawless execution but it didn’t exist the flawless execution was was analyzing their mistakes seeing what they can improve upon that was the flawless execution for them it wasn’t the actual act of flawless execution they you know they had for all this debriefing mmm flawless analyzation of what they did wrong yes but it wasn’t to be perfect ops and it does no such thing doesn’t happen yeah so if you’re sitting planning that trying to make that happen it’s not going to work for you it’s don’t do it jump go next question chuckle got a question you actually wrote that yeah he did if he’s fully it’s game I got a question Oh how would you do with a team member who tried to take all the responsibility but cannot do as good a job as others I don’t know if it’s sincere helpfulness or desire of power but these are for power there’s a little twist on that one yeah a little twist that puts them all on that question right there and so you got a guy that’s one trying to take all those responsibility for everything not really as good as he should be doing in that position but trying to take responsibility and yet the person that’s got the question he doesn’t know if it’s sincere trying to just help out the team or a desire for power so is it helpfulness or is it their quest for power where they come in from how do we figure that out well for one thing if someone is truly trying to help the team they will have an open mind to support and suggestion and help from other people they’ll be open to that because they’re just trying to do the best for the team if they’re trying to take or maintain power which as we know is driven by ego they don’t want help and they don’t want suggestions from people either they’re just gonna do it my way I got this no it’s mine so that’s the difference so there’s going to be two different ways that I’m going to handle this situation so for a person that’s actually trying to help and trying to do a good job I’m going to bolster them up I love it the fact that they have some shortfalls that’s okay I’m gonna do them to give them some support I’m gonna put some people on their team that can help cover some of those shortfalls I’m gonna try and set them up to win and learn and be educated while they are winning and if they’re humble which I’m assuming that they are because they have this attitude that they’re trying to help out everyone then did while I’m doing this whole process of course I’m coaching them and I’m mentoring them and giving them suggestions and I’m turning to someone that can do a good job in that such so that’s pretty easy you got someone that wants to take ownership responsibility and they’re doing it for the right reasons boom let’s help them out with support them let’s get them trained let’s get them knowledge and let’s get them up to speed we got a upcoming leader I dig it if it’s an ego driven person and they are maneuvering for that power well then what I’m going to do is I’m going to let them get humbled by the experience because remember it stated that they’re not as good as they could be at this job they’re not particularly good at what they’re trying to take control over so that’s fine I’m going to let them get humbled by it now I’m going to assess the risks I’m going to make sure that no one’s going to get hurt no one’s going to get killed or we’re not going to fail a mission or in the business world make sure they’re not going to lose millions of dollars we’re not going to suffer comes some kind of a strategic setback but let them fail a little bit and let them see that they’re not as good as they think they are I’m going to let them learn about humility right I’m going to let them learn about humility now if they learn if they are humbled by that and they realize that they’re not as good as they realize that they’re not ready to control everything and they realize that they need help if they learn from it and they don’t just cast blame then they’ll become a much better leader you will actually help them by letting them get humbled if they just get done and they just cast blame then we see them fail and now we have legitimate reason to say look I can’t put you in charge you just failed I can’t allow this to happen again so that’s how I would basically handle that situation now of course as all different kind of gradations of of those realities and the answer will be somewhat scaled as well right so that’s what you do you scale answer maybe you can person a little bit of help but you know let them stumble a little bit you know maybe you’re not going to get many help at all you know and fall flat on their face maybe you’re going to bolster them up a lot but you’re still going to talk to them and say hey listen you need to step back and get more in the weeds on some of the lower level stuff because you’re not ready to manage this yet you know so it’s cool but that’s my basic overall concept of where I would be going with that do you find that like even with the expression extreme ownership or in this case and for favorite attics all the responsibility do you find that not people get confused but you know yeah like people who will kind of get confusing how you say okay take responsibility because it seems like anyway from what I told think I totally understand with extreme ownership is he risk I told you everything oh I like it I like they’re coming from you can’t really fun hi I think you’re sort of take responsibility for the mistakes in the solution yes right that is a dream ownership so and then but then it from what I heard like sometimes when people ask questions it’ll kind of this one’s kind of biggest but sometimes people will ask it ask a question or make a statement comment whatever in terms of take responsibility or take ownership of like not of the problems or the solutions but but like before them is like this is my yeah this is yeah you can overstep you can be you can use too much extreme ownership you can say hey this is echo this is my mission I’ll tell you how to do it yeah you know input from you not to call me yeah yeah and by the way I’m taking all the credit to when we get back wait is it actually equally wrong right I should do is say hey I will echo I’m in charge of this but hey man I want you to come up with a good plan I think you’ve got a great insight I think you know the terrain better than me can you come up with a good plan and then we get backwards if it’s a successful mission I’m like hey guys everyone look what happened I said tell the commanding officer echo ran this great operation I think he’s ready to step up in leadership he really did a superb job if it fails what am i doing pointing the finger back oh no I’m coming back into it hey boss here’s a mission failure these are mistakes I made here’s what I did wrong here’s what I’m gonna fix next time that’s real simple so would you say in a nutshell extreme ownership applies to the problems and the solutions to those problems and that’s all know it applies to everything it applies to everything because even when I say hey I want you come up with a plan for this and you come back and brief me with a and I still take ownership of the plan it’s your plan but I go through it I say okay this looks like a good move hey echo I’m looking at this right here I don’t know if this is the best way to execute this right here’s the issue so I’m not taking ownership of it that I’m pulling it away from you but I’m definitely to make sure we win I that’s the thing that drives me crazy sometimes with leaders is they don’t realize it but they’re making excuses cuz they’ll say oh you know I let I let me I’m decentralized command so I can’t control everything no actually you are responsible for everything and if I got three teams out there and you’re one of the team leaders and I come to you and say hey echo here’s the plan I want you to execute I still have to look at the plan I still have to make sure that I agree with what you’re doing at to make sure you’re not doing something that doesn’t make sense well yes I do have ownership of the plan yeah absolutely like it’s your family member or something yeah that plan is like it so I love it like a son kind of the plan is mark the planet you came up with a plan you created it yes my grandkid yeah right yeah so if your dears but I’m still going to take responsibility and ownership that’s just where people we it’s when your ego starts flaring up and I start saying no that’s my plan and we’re going my way that’s where we have issues yeah but yeah the ownership doesn’t stop and it doesn’t stop when you’re in a leadership position it doesn’t stop you own everything up and down the chain of command it is hard to do it’s hard on your ego for sure yeah because it kind of seems in a way counter to I guess if you understand though all the little subtle dynamics of it because you know like if the plan fails well that’s one extreme ownership is really going to show it to it like it’s a super successful flawless plan it doesn’t it’s more covert because it’s more internal if you got to give the credit for sure everyone else everyone will sit there and go on Jacko’s you know he’s he’s given the credit to echo for the operation he won’t show up as extreme ownership for sure it’ll be harder to see yeah and if people will say dang it people know that I was in charge right then yeah me overall ago so I’m still going to get some credit right more covert but but it’s way more covert manner yeah better right that’s that’s the heart is like that’s what’s so hard for people to realize they want so bad to raise their hand and say yes it was me it was my operation but it hasn’t helped you it doesn’t help you it feels good for like a half a second and then you realize you just deflated yourself is that kind of like when you make a donation to charity but you want like everyone to know that you did it it’s kinda like that yeah I guess it’s similar to that similar concept right like in a weird kind of profound way question I guess we’ll just move on the next question how about just the profoundness of your last day just on a certain level the same thing because you know you did something good you know or you are something good or whatever but it’s like saying I’m I’m the most humble guy in the world you know I’m just down to here’s the other thing about this when I give you the credit for success yeah not only do I win covertly in that you look at me and go man he gave me a couple corrections that were critical this operation he’s not even saying anything so you have even more respect for me which means you’re going to work harder for me in the future you’re gonna do even more and we’re gonna look even better so I am gonna ultimately win yeah because my team is going to be kicking so much ass all over the globe and people are saying wow you know this these guys are just winning everywhere they go well and and and so it’s very very positive whereas if I took that credit from you on that first operation and I took it from you how are you working on the next one not as hard not as hard you know maybe you’re a great guy yeah maybe you’re a great guy but and you’re just a guy but you’re still not going to go that extra edge you’re not going to nuclear you’re not going to get credit and you’re not gonna do cuz you don’t care that much about making me look good as you would if I was taking care of you there’s nothing better than having guys that you’re taking care of they know you’re taking care of them and they’re gonna do anything for you like you’re gonna do anything damn you you know and you’ll do anything for them it’s a mutual thing it’s real yeah it’s a real thing yeah it’s like the gift that keeps on giving it is is what I can do it you know that’s what the books been so popular it’s and it’s is why the book has been so popular because when you when you break it down and people see what it does they realize how power this yeah and it’s and it’s also you know another reason that the book is so popular is because we put it in a very clear way yeah and it’s easier to understand it doesn’t make it easier to execute but it makes it easier to understand for sure yeah it’s crazy to and someone said I pretty might have been someone at the muster I don’t know could could have very well been on Twitter I don’t know but oh so I’m saying how it’s so interesting how they started to realize that it applies to their relationship with their like husband or wife or like that and I always kind of look at all this stuff is primarily that you know cuz I mean who do it especially now who do I work with you know I don’t have to like I don’t go through these extreme ownership struggles you know with you so it’s more ale so to me everything up this applies to like your relationship with your life my whatever you know so and it all translate all of it does yeah when you take ownership of stuff you it’s when you take ownership of stuff then you can control the outcome yeah it’s crazy we don’t own it you don’t get anywhere yeah and that that um you know you have a I don’t know disagree argument any any ripples in the water where the instinct is to point fingers you know but when you even though another person is really the grand scheme of things you’re both to blame I know that but they do have their huge role in the issue in the problem don’t do that don’t even pay attention to that all you’ve got to do is shine the light on your own things and say don’t I mean and I say don’t they don’t like be hard on yourself you know like that kind like the goshawk I suck it’s not that it’s no like what we die this is what I can do exactly right so what’s interesting is and you said it from the beginning but it is interesting to just watch it play out so far it’s almost fun but it’s more just real interesting where when you do it and you just keep doing it you always do it that same consistently do it you just watch how the other person just changes yeah and just becomes kind of the same thing and before you know it like the ripples in the water pretty much fun yeah and what you need someone in the team has got to start doing it yeah that’s one of the hardest things if occasionally we’ll work with a company where everyone’s like oh yeah extreme ownership no one is actually doing it yep when no one is actually doing it all they’re saying is like I wish that guy had extreme ownership and that guy should have extreme ownership and I don’t see anyone else taking ownership and hey I haven’t seen anyone else taking ownership and therefore how can I take ownership you know we send out when we work with a company will send out surveys you know pre class surveys and then post because we’ll do a number of sessions so we’ll send out to the leadership team that we’re working with how’s it going and we’ll send out a week later two weeks later three weeks later four weeks later and sometimes when you get a team where no one is taking ownership and and literally you hear people say well the boss isn’t taking ownership so how can I take ownership if loss isn’t even taking ownership they don’t realize that when your boss isn’t taking ownership it is an opportunity for you to take ownership and to excel and to gain respect than Trust and power and power which is a good thing because you’re doing things for the good of the team so you want to have power but I want to have power when I’m when I’m a team leader I absolutely want to have power and the reason I want to have power so I can distribute it properly amongst my team and I can utilize it so we can be successful in our mission so when you have your CEO isn’t taking ownership awesome I’m going to take ownership and win mother rest if the CEO is truly not taking ownership and I do everyone else looks at me and they start to elevate my position the CEO becomes irrelevant because all he’s doing is sitting around pointing fingers I’m taking ownership of things and solving them I’m actually going to end up in a superior position now I might not get promoted to CEO today or tomorrow or in two years but when this information gets back to the board or to the directors or whoever they realize that there’s one person that’s mutually respected by everybody and that’s you because you took ownership when you take ownership you solve problems and when you solve problems you win but somebody has got to start it and it’s hard sometimes in some situations you get the we what’s that word they use like the caustic environment toxic is a toxic environment where everyone’s just so so defensive about it and it’s difficult those the difficult situations to work with you and all it takes is the transition of one human one person in that team to step up and say you know what this stuff that’s going wrong is my fault CEOs don’t worry about him he’s got enough problems he’s got to deal with the he’s got a deal with the shareholders meeting we don’t we need to protect him yeah you know what this is my fault that this happens and here’s what we’re gonna do to fix it mmm here’s what I’m gonna do and that just changes the attitudes and of course you’re gonna have two or three people in that defensive toxic environment that are go look at them go yes you’re right it is your fault you know what you say to that yes you’re right is it is my fault and here’s one would you fix it here’s how I’m gonna move forward here’s what we’re going to do to change but it’s hard to be that person take that first step and then you got to keep that going you know but again man after a little bit you see the guy next you just turned into it then the guy next Reem ownership the book it it’s pointed out but it’s not super crystal clear that when I was taking blame for the blue on blue that happened everyone else was too you know those guys were saying hey it was my fault I did this was my fault by the desk yeah and I was cuz that was it that wasn’t the first time these guys had seen or heard ownership you know when we were going through training and something was screwed up I’d be like hey this is my fault that’s one into everyone had that really good attitude yeah so that happened to the company so what you’re saying it does it’s one of the best things about this idea this principle of extreme ownership as it spreads throughout the company and will you get people on the team that will not take ownership of things yes of course you will you will get that person and eventually they will either leave or you will fire them one of the two things will happen because when you have a person you’ve got the whole team is going nuts my fault and eventually everyone’s oh you oh yeah that’s not your responsibility core I’ll take that Oh echo you can’t handle that cool I know that’s not your fault okay then I’ll take it fix it Oh echo you can handle that either it’s not your fault okay I’ll take that in a fix intervention you don’t have a job anymore yeah so if you want don’t want to take ownership of things including problems I will take ownership of all and I’ll eventually take your job in your world and it’ll be mine it’s phased right now tase you right out like you weren’t even there that’s going to happen so yes it’s a powerful powerful tool yeah and then the other thing is you see like you see politicians do it all the time they don’t take ownership when they make a mistake and when they do it’s sort of this lip service of it was my fault so it’s my fault that this happened but right but bla bla bla bla bla bla bla and I and all anyone hears is bla bla bla bla bla bla at once as soon as you say but and then you make a bunch of excuses that’s all anybody hears yeah and there’s just this a week yeah it’s so weak to do that and it sounds when like you said when you get used to hearing it you get used to hearing people take ownership of things when somebody doesn’t it sounds like Satan is screaming out of their mouths and and just horrible it sounds awful and it’s like a it’s like a coffin Easter hey you just sickness right that is yes it stands up for sure you know when we got the mustard I was talking about how when you start taking ownership of things when you start having this attitude when when you feel yourself about to make a mess okay and um don’t blame like you feel like you’re going to throw up in your mouth it’s like you it’s like you it’s like vomit is coming out of your mouth Nia don’t get back there because you don’t want to let that puke out onto the floor so that everyone see it yep settle out that’s all it is when you blame everyone else it’s all this happens all the time and it’s so it’s it it’s like the other thing I talked about with with stepping back and and how you step back off the line and how much visibility you have as soon as you step back off the firing line as soon as you just elevate yourself six inches above what’s happening it’s the same thing when you start to take ownership it’s like the change it’s just this little chain but it just completely changes the dynamic of what is going on in your business and in your life in your life because it’s the same thing in life when people are blaming everyone else are blaming the market and they’re blaming their parents and they’re blaming the the debt that they built up and they’re blaming the car that broke they’re blaming everything else what’s going on yeah and when you own all you and everything when nothing is your fault what are you gonna fix the answer is you’re not going to fix anything whereas if you go okay these are some mistakes that I made and here’s what I’m gonna do to fix them that’s the paradigm change and that’s where you start getting on the right path the muster your line at the muster I included it in the video favorite lion I think says sure I’ll take the blame and I don’t care as a mission took to accomplish and I got to get the problem solved yeah that’s what it was yeah in the video best part laughing yeah I will take the blame and I don’t care I don’t care bring it in Jocko we got time for one more yes I think we do chuckle on the Joe Rogan experience Everlast from House of Pain was on ever less was explaining how he wasn’t in shape and Joe played the good video form Everlast said it is inspiring but it didn’t always work and the example he gave was a sick daughter who had a lung disease that the doctors can’t explain I wondered the same thing how’s the sick child good you know I I saw that episode as well and it’s definitely a hard question and actually to quote a song a great song by Everlast and I I haven’t walked a mile in his shoes and I’ve been extremely lucky and and blessed with the health of my family my wife and my children and I am so so thankful for that but I have been around disease and I have been around death and of course to say there is something good about death and disease is impossible to do – to hell with disease to hell with cancer and ALS and heart disease and all the rest of them to have with them all and death to hell with death I have nothing good to say about disease or death curse them both but but then what is that where I’m supposed to focus am i to latch on to death and disease and ride with them down to the depths of despair I say no no I will not ride with them I will not go down their evil path instead because I cannot find good in their vile darkness the vile darkness of disease and of death I will not feed their fire I won’t feed their egos instead I’m going to look elsewhere I will look to life and light and I will find good in those places I’ll find good in every moment I get I’ll find good in every breath I’ll find good making memories and holding them beer I’ll find good in knowing that I will learn from this horrible experience that everything that I’m going through all the pain and suffering and darkness it’ll make the light brighter and stronger and more powerful more powerful than disease and more powerful than death so cry and scream and shake your fists at the sky and curse death and curse disease and shout to the world that life isn’t fair and that this is not deserved not for me not for my child not from my friend my spouse my brother my sister not for anyone and then look up then breathe and all that darkness and all that evil let it all go and when it creeps back again let it go again let it go then look forward toward the light toward life toward the future and of the past let the memories the sacred memories let those flourish and grow and expunge the darkness from your world and replace it all with good and I think that’s all I’ve got for tonight so too rough on yeah I think um okay it’s like I think that that like that outlook on it this is import because that’s not just easy to do you know especially man and me it’s probably been lucky but my daughter had a staph infection you know in her lymph nodes you know hospital for like week we can absolutely like that and know and you have the viewpoint you’re lucky that that has all you know when you go to a children’s award and you see kids that are just suffering from Horrible diseases it’s awful but you feel lucky exactly as you should you know hey we’re lucky to have this yeah and at in that moment when we’re in the hospital like like you’re scared you’re like sad scared for them you know is but I think that just even hearing that is like it’s kind of like it does help you know what yeah and it’s one of the things that you know what I want to you know when you talk about the reaction you have and you know the fact that it’s okay to like scream and shake your fist at the sky that’s okay for that and then I’m saying you know that you’ve got to let it go but at the same time everyone’s got to realize that look like you let it go it’s coming back it’s coming back and it’ll sneak up on you again and then you kind of do it again you know you got a you got to go through that you’ve got to scream in and curse the evil that it is and then you gotta let it go again and you’re gonna go through that cycle over and over again but what you can’t do is you can’t not go through the cycle you can’t just get trapped in the screaming and the suffering and the pain you can’t get trapped there and it’s really hard and I noticed that you know when I had when I had my friends get killed overseas I realized you know when we’d be home and like everything would be normal like maybe would be out having some beers with the boys or we’d be doing something and all of a sudden like you just get hit with this wave of sadness and it would kind of just almost instantly I’d be like breaking down I could like ready to cry or crying and then three minutes later I’m like out of it you know I just had to get rid of it I just had to expunge that sadness yeah and but what you can’t do is you just can’t get caught in those cycles and I think that’s what happens to people and again I haven’t walked a mile in those shoes but what I have seen is I know that it’s hard I know that it’s heartbreaking but you can’t let it break everything you have to try and hold it together yeah it’s like part of the like going through I know this one low level I guess I understand it’s like a Lola but part is like the feeling that you get is like like what do I do like I feel like I can’t do anything and then that provides these feelings you know but if you start to understand what it is that you do have to do and one of those things is essentially like understand it that yeah it’s going on don’t try to block it or escape do some escapist activity or whatever just know and understand that it’s going on and then on top of that on top of it your job is to be strong you know you know that’s that’s another thing that I’ve noticed especially and it happens with anybody but with some of my seal friends that have been in these horrible situations is their alpha guys that are you know used to being in control of everything and used to being able to control the outcome and you call some eutm yeah you can’t control the outcome and then what do you do well it’s like we learned from Charlie plum it’s like we learn from Bill Reader you can’t control that thing the only thing you can control is your own attitude your own view of what happening and if you’re if you control your attitude and you make your attitude the best possible attitude it can be that’s the best you’re going to do and again I wish there was some I don’t have some miracle solution to these situations and no one does if we had a miracle these problems wouldn’t happen these horrible things wouldn’t happen so what can we actually control we’ll all keep control is our own view of it our own assessment our own attitude that sounds like at right word but our own attitude of what’s happening and make that as good as we can and are there going to be points where your attitude turns completely dark and negative of course there are how can you not but don’t let it be permanent don’t let it be permanent for the sake of the situation for the sake of a person you care about they don’t want you to live like that so don’t and again you know it’s going to be sick sick occur from what I’ve seen it’s going to be cyclical in nature the way it happens the way people deal with these horrible emotions is they go down and then they come up and then they go down and they come up and and when they go down when your emotions go down when you get dragged into the mindset of loss then I think the best thing to do is just embrace it grab it say yeah like I said shake your fist at the sky and scream and then let it out get it out and then pick it back up and say to yourself okay that was horrible that’s darkness that’s evil that I couldn’t control what can I control and how can I have the best possible view and what can I learn from all this that’s going to make me a better person with a better life to live the best I can in their memories even yeah and think and man when you’re in the situation like especially with working out where your daughter’s like you know in hospital or whatever you’re like yeah I haven’t worked out this whole week yeah it’s like who cares about work out your daughters in the hospital no you didn’t make it to jujitsu like you don’t care about jujitsu anymore you just care about this one thing you know but again just like how you said it’s like so it’s like this big burden in life because really you know you do a lot of time your kids are like all you have really it feels like so if you don’t have them who hears about jiu-jitsu because while working I don’t have anything you know no reason to even doing really but aside from the fact is there is more like to your life and in fact the more your whole life beside them is for them you know so you gotta get it kind of you gotta keep that I think yeah no doubt yeah and I think that’s always an important thing to remember is that if you surrender to all that bad evil darkness that’s the legacy that’s the example that’s what you’re showing as opposed to showing the legacy and showing the example of not giving up of moving forward of driving on and doing the best you can with life and with the things that are good and again having the attitude to control the things you can control and put them in the best possible light that you can yeah that’s a and it’s a spectrum you know I mean kind of puts into perspective in my opinion why you should do the best you can when things are going good yeah because the cow is gonna go good there my opinion anyway speaking of doing the best you can Hey look working out we no obvious obvious work out work out hard to you know I mean maybe not every single day working out hard to work on when you do work out art you might need some supplementation I think I wasn’t a supplement guy I wasn’t before you know this right I might have mentioned it everyone knows okay but now I am a supplement guy happy to say not the kind of supplement guy who’s like hey take this power gainer hey what kind of protein powder you take though even though I’m not against protein powder I don’t take any but nonetheless you know what I’m talking about krill oil I’m gonna say to my father-in-law’s name is Ross I’m sorry for not heeding all of you if heating heating is – the advice I can you heed advice or the joinings advice okay so you can heat warnings and advisers I should have heeded Ross’s advice my father-in-law about the krill oil eventually droplet turned me back on to it or further on to it so I’m on it now I think on it he’d be happy literally on it on it doc on intended yeah on it is the company if you didn’t know already I get Jocko gets krill oil from on it on it calm if you want 10% off all these supplements which are what shroom tech case room tech good for oxygen uptake is what it is so when you’re doing these hardcore met cons jujitsu your body takes up the oxygen easier more more efficiently cordyceps mushroom look science for you right then Strongbow and that helped me there I had this arm and I kind of wanted to report this before but I want to take too much time and the jury’s still kind of out on it but so I had this tendon itís kind of situation and it’s weird it wasn’t in like a normal place like in your elbows in my deltoid muscle where it inserts into the humerus bone which is your like bone under your bicep it was like tendonitis and it’s like you know the kind like I’m not injured I’m not out but I warm up more I got a rub on it in all this stuff and I’m lifting her I’m not going to take days off if I’m not injured so Brad this thing wasn’t gonna get better that’s the thing about tendonitis like if you keep lifting hard on it it just simply won’t go away the whole reason is tendonitis because you’re lifting hard on it you know I’d rather see you talk by the way I’m just gonna have to live with it or wait for you know the time where I don’t have to skip workouts whatever but I’m on the strong bone I’m like alright strombone let’s see what up you know do your thing I’m not saying it was because of a strong bone but nonetheless the tendonitis it’s not completely gone and be honest with you but it’s pretty much gone I’m warming up normal I’m a believer of the strombone thanks for turning me on to that check jockle anyway go on there there’s a lot of good stuff for a lot of good things from supplements and this workout stuff on there too so I already had weights and a gym membership but when you go on there you see the stuff that they have you’re going to get some of that you because it’s not like normal like kettlebells you know there’s all the chords and there’s info too on this stuff like I understand that you know a lot of people a lot of us we want more info than just order chocolate exits so I’m going to take it some of us are like that you need more info so there’s info on the website be careful you can get stuck on there because it’s real interesting and in-depth by the way so just be careful with that you know ah Netcom slash Jocko I recommend the krill oil big-time to me if you’re not on the krill oil you’re you’re behind you’re like a good one to two steps behind under step steps not like a half step if you’re behind if I had a twin brother which I do you give us a five-year period two-year period on krill oil he’s not on krill oil we do the same exact workout program same lifestyle I’m Way ahead of him way ahead of him way more functional this factual that’s it’s this my hypothesis okay hypothetically don’t crows I don’t yeah news on girl but you don’t have the same he doesn’t get after it physically as much as I do so this it’s hard to have that for a basis comparison for the crow oil nonetheless good stuff on there and the good thing about on UK I can say this with pretty well with absolute certainty at this point is that it’s the good one it’s good stuff because supplements in general I don’t want to mention any store names but you know when you go in the meathead bodybuilder store a lot of those supplements aren’t there whack they just have like sparkly like labels and stuff in their junk on it it’s not like that get 10% off if you want 10% off go on it calm slash Jocko that’s a good way to support this podcast as well another good way to support might be you know what’s interesting is get you read review books on here and sometimes actually a lot of times when you have the guest you actually have their book and you read their book to them yeah just like it it really that was and I think probably talked about this but when we had Jody Minich this is the first time it happened and Jody came on and you know I had his book and I was like okay well should I have him read this or should I read this or I just wasn’t quite sure and it seemed like the common sense answer would be Jody read this section of your book right kind of like a common sense answer and you could talk about it and for some reason my gut told me don’t know Jocko read it oh yeah right and as soon as we got you know probably I don’t know halfway through it Jody said you know something like man here and you read this is like crazy to hear and it’s true when you hear someone else read something to you it’s it’s different yeah it’s different yes so that’s what I’ve done every time since you know when we had coronal leader on here and he said the same thing yeah it’s hard when usually he’s like you say in the most unemotional way he’s like when you’re reading this to me it’s extremely emotional for me to hear ya know but it’s in and same thing with with Captain poem you know same thing at Mannion as well yeah yeah yeah yeah so it’s it’s really interesting the way that works and it definitely it’s unbelievable to have the author sitting there yeah and to have my spin yeah that’s what it is right it’s my it’s the way I hear it yeah and for them to hear the way I hear it they it hits them from a different angle yeah right so I think that’s I think that’s where the the interesting yeah powerful part comes from any G it is very interesting and efficiency to watch it because and you know you you’re a little bit different than a typical person just reading a book you know so you really get the to me is what it feels like is like that’s kind of how the book is supposed to feel you know like when you read it or whatever so you know the point is like I think a lot of people feel that so you know they say oh I want to go get this book they’re like oh oh is that book and I kind of refined it so anyway you don’t have to do that just go on our website talk about cast calm there’s a section the top books boom there they are all the books by episode boom you can get them and when you buy your books through their support the podcast as well sue boom double double-edged double gravitational because like it’s no it’s a two pronged you know what if you fear what if you weren’t getting a book you’re getting like duct tape anything yeah so that’s thing adds it’s a there are Amazon click-through situations so yeah even if before you do your shopping boom just click through the banners Amazon manners all upon their click there but most people they do the books you know but yeah if you’re doing your shopping as well do that you go gets our clubs golf clubs whatever you like we do cameras some people done some pretty cool high ticket high-dollar items yeah which is very impactful and in the low ticket items low lower cost items you might not think it’s a big deal but then when a bunch of people do it it is a big deal and it’s very very hopeful yeah to the podcast yep good way to support em so click-click-boom a also a good way to support this podcast is to subscribe seems obvious I know but you know if you haven’t subscribe on iTunes Google a stitcher what’s the other one that I keep missing I don’t know a man whatever podcast is not for you that I post someone said something about SoundCloud I got a look into it I don’t think that that’s a subscribed podcast situation I don’t know you’re just audio if I don’t I don’t know either so I shouldn’t even say anything but nonetheless I look into it if in fact before I committed to this I owned cloud situation you know I subscribe if you haven’t already also YouTube if you want or are interested in the video version of this podcast it’s been on there since number 7 I think 7 was the first video episode we the other ones are on there but they’re just audio with the picture of your head not in period yeah something face it but yeah interested in I wish we had video from back then I do kind of I’m so bummed out we don’t have it yeah the closest you have is like a picture of me trying to lo the hall is the view to a periscope periscope yeah yeah I remember when we did alive on periscope we tried no we did we did did it live on periscope huh yeah to try and capture that video you know nonetheless this video that’s the point there if you want to see you know I guess what we look like if you don’t know I feel like the guess that’s where the value comes in if you should like to seem like again either hating the hero after it yeah yeah right yeah right that’s a good one too could use like like his storage sense fun he acts things out a little bit as you said yeah yeah but in this real mellow kind of nonchalant badass way you know feel good but yeah YouTube subscribe to that one if you like also yeah it’s the video version of the podcast yes but I will take a little excerpts and we’ll post those as well so you can you know if you’d like if you’re into sharing little lesson with your friends or coworkers whatever you can do that so you don’t have to share the whole podcast I’ll put some other stuff on there interesting stuff I think up some other stuff just in relation to it we’ve been spitballing about some stuff anyway if you want to see what that is um yeah go on YouTube not like YouTube cost money or does it no it doesn’t true YouTube read customer yeah yeah we’re not dealing with YouTube bread we’re not doing it right yeah no no charge for content oh no no we’re not gonna do that no no I was thinking about getting YouTube alright yeah that’s a whole nother thing for sure yeah YouTube subscribe you don’t support that way that’s cool also chocolate store it’s called choco store choco store calm so this I keep forgetting everybody’s name but very clever guy say this was a haiku and then I went doing on like dang I’m so but I was like art not a haiku cuz you later the Jacques Astoria so why don’t you change it so it’s a haiku good because it might yeah I guess okay here we go so Jocko has a store it’s called the Jacko store Giacobbe store calm boom is iku nonetheless jockle store calm that’s where you can get if you want shirts rash guards hoodies some patches velcro regulation size and color someone some women’s stuff on there anyway the point there is if you like t-shirts you want to represent get a shirt boom good support there good shirt student that’s a free thing when you put on get after a t-shirt yeah you get a little bit yeah you want to get outfit marker and actually the AP it add that actually sounds kind of funny but when you think about it super obvious you’re like you know like I mean I don’t hear is it’s a later it’s a litterer literature thing well there’s a literature thing it’s called something it’s called something like the dressing of the warrior yeah yeah and you’ll see in movies they do a movie squeeze the guy putting his boots on and plant his gear on and put his sword and picking up a shield that’s donning his helmet they do everywhere from night movies to gladiator movies to your movies in the modern day you’ll see movie scenes while they do it in literature – so there’s a little something there’s a little reality that like I’ll tell you what used to get me was flipping down certain night-vision goggles you wear them on your helmet and they flip up when the lights are on when you’re you know you’re getting ready to go right and what it’s time to go it flips down your knobs and for me I like that was just game so game on it’s so game on when you flip down those knobs and so when we even when I got back from my last deployment I’m working training and we go I would still be on night vision we go out at night to observe the troops and run the opposing force and all that but I get out on the target area and flip down my knobs and I’d let going to full combat hood it’s just abroad so I think sometimes you put on a given our country shirt ain’t you sort of feel yeah yeah I think with gladiator that movie when they’re like oh it’s like the Emperor or something came up and then there’s like the small act of defiance from the gladiator guy and that all the guards behind them they’ll slip down nothing and boom we’re ready to go real quick I think it’s gladiator probably meant something else nonetheless yeah the modern version of that right with these like and it did happen to me when the first shirts came in the discipline equals freedom I was like all the shirts and I put it on and I wanted to like go work out in it you know and it make sense when you get a new rash guard where you get a new ghee or something you know I don’t get wait to go practice in my new eat kind of thing ones like when little kids get new shoes yeah exactly right oh yeah in football one we flew in Pop Warner football we get the new shoes from the scene I can’t wait to go to practice practice super hardens new socks do fish is a little kid but you just want to when you get that that new stuff nonetheless so like I said chuckles store calm get yourself a new shirt you get the one that says get after it guess what you’re gonna really want to do get after some other ones on there pretty cool I think and a good the quality shirts that in my opinion that’s even more important than what it says huh because they’re wearable I can print like yeah chuckles cool sayings on a junk shirt you wear at one time you’re like all right you know maybe I’ll wear that again but it’s not very wearable I don’t look that good in it it’s not the case with these ones these ones look good I’ve had multiple people say it’s my favorite shirt to wear because I look good that’s kind of a t-shirt with the first round of travel mugs them the silver ones oh yeah like they were not as high-quality as what we went to yeah they say I have enough they said this pinnacles freedom well it is over mugs they said discipline equals freedom they look you know they look very cool but we needed higher quality yeah yeah so let’s see essentially the same thing you get the money like cool my dog and I’ll do double mod is gonna go into Vista that’s gonna replace your whole cup cupboard straight-up they did with me and I didn’t even expect that but yeah 30 ounces and if it’s in your cup will do in your car too what’s the black on black I’m plus 1 equals freedom no one can see it except for you well the owner now you can see it here’s a good thing about it it’s black it’s look at it’s black it’s not shiny it’s gonna crush the shiny black and then yeah then the logo and stuff is shiny black so people have to look a little extra hard to see it yeah but there’s a subtlety to it that’s awful for you it’s for you looks dope they call it murdered-out you know cars black with black rims anyway looks good and it’s double insulated dealt with is that double insulated so what is call to them when yeah you’re ice you put ice water in there you leave it overnight next morning Stewie stuff ice water even if it’s a hot night even a fat day how cuz I think it’s on me I don’t my name my car you know you go into it where I go grocery store you know you spend a lot of time in this no no no I was coming back from somewhere left it in my car with I it was just I say drink all the water and left it in my car came out later that evening boom I still in the car today so maybe some air coil anyway there’s a good high-quality BPA free all that stuff anyway John Foster comm if you didn’t know already also good way to support yourself and this podcast by happenstance is psychological or a psychological warfare is what it’s called you know what that is it’s an album with tracks of Jocko telling you how to get through your moments of weakness in the event of you having a moment of weakness getting up early procrastinating even being create it’s like for everything being creative like how can how can you get talked out of writer’s block how can you talk about it it’s weird right now you will be talked out of writer’s block and right into creativity yes exactly right and same thing with workouts anyway for all the little moments of weakness that you might have don’t worry chocolates there get it psychological warfare you can even buy the individual tracks too let’s say you’re like just no but that’s not as good of a deal no but I mean really 99 cents yes it is a good deal it’s a great deal regardless in my opinion cuz look came my whole thing wasn’t to wake up early it was going from not working out to where you know it’s like okay I got a workout today but I’m on the computer I’m doing something I’m like like this is important to me exact I really focus on my class right yeah and working out exactly right so the workout date becomes a rest day you know and from to you know kind of and that was kind of my thing but so there’s a track for that you know so if I all I need is really that try the diet thing I’m not you know that week when it comes to like the diet stuff you know so maybe I don’t need it but I’m not saying to do that I’m saying there’s that option don’t see it one it’s on iTunes it’s on Amazon music Google Play Google Play pretty much anywhere where they sell music mp3 online mp3s boom it’s on there it’s called cycle a lot of people don’t want to alarm box selfie was one an alarm clock or ringtone gessoed it no no alarm clock if you want to wake up there’s like someone telling you to get up dead then that someone Reagan how come yes because people want me to do something like that but I’m like we already did it that’s one of the reasons why we did this cycle yeah warfare yeah so yeah you download that specific file to your phone and then you yeah your mate make it your alarm clock yeah yeah psychological warfare chuckling oh you can also get Jaco white tea on Amazon and people ask if I ever drink energy drinks and the answer is yes like during choco white tea my energy drink no need any other energy drinks now that actually SAP your energy once there once their crash hits you and chocolatey that’s not going to happen you’ll be going strong way to warrior kid the book I wish I had when I was a kid that shows kids the path you can get that book as well as for adults that we need to get on the path there’s another book coming out October 20 2017 discipline equals freedom Field Manual it’s the path that’s it extreme ownership of course combat leadership from the battlefield and translated into strategies and tactics that can be applied in any leadership situation extreme ownership get it and then get it also you can also get SL on front leadership and management consulting into your company you got lay fabin you got JP Jenelle you got Dave Burke and you got me you can contact us at info at Ashkelon front calm of course the muster Leadership Conference but not your normal conference it’s not your normal conference so don’t whatever your vision of the conference is I’ve spoken at a bunch of conferences that’s conference it’s not that stiff it’s different the normal conference you’re waiting for the break and then you’re going to disappear to your hotel room for like 45 minutes waiting for the happy hour all that other stuff that’s not that’s not worth doing here at the conference at the monster the monster started eight o’clock in the morning everyone’s there at seven o’clock in the morning after we get done with PT everyone’s there seven o’clock in the morning including all of us we’re hanging out we when we started eight o’clock we started eight o’clock boom it’s go time so it’s not just your kind of typical conference thing we get after it knowledge interaction solving problems we go and we go hard I just peeked out the microphone I don’t do that normally but we go and we go hard next one is in August or sorry in Austin Texas July 13th and 14th at the Omni Barton Creek Resort which only has 300 people we’re over we’re over halfway sold out right now so register quickly if you can’t make that you can come to San Diego September 14th and 15th for mustard 0:04 I look forward to seeing you there and until we do see you there if you want to talk to us you can find us drifting about inside the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on that face ebola echo is at echo Charles and I am at Jocko willing and as always to the military personnel deployed all over the world thanks for everything that you do for us to the police firefighters EMTs first responders thanks for keeping us safe and make sure you stay safe as well to everyone else that’s listening thank you for listening thank you for supporting thank you for spreading the word thank you for getting up early and thanks for working harder than your enemy and as echo said earlier thanks for taking advantage of when times are good because times will not always be good so until next time this is echo and Jocko how