Jocko Podcast 309: There’s Always Room for Improvement. There’s Always More To Learn. W/ JP Dinnell

this is jocko podcast number 309 with echo charles and me jacqueline good evening erica good evening also joining us tonight jp danielle good evening jp good evening so i got very lucky in my career very lucky in my career and was able to learn a lot from being in the military and a lot of what the military taught me i was able to learn because i was able to teach i was you get put in positions in the military where you’re teaching which is an awesome way to learn and it starts and the seal team starts really young like the first time you go overseas you’re going to be teaching you’re going to be teaching some host nation personnel marksmanship or map and compass or whatever and so you’re just kind of learning how to teach but then where i really realized the power of teaching and learning at the same time was when i was in training sell at seal team one when i got into training sell at seal team one so i had done three deployments three workouts three deployments and i went to training solid steel team one and when i got to say training sell at sale team one i was single no kids no cares volunteered for every trip that there was which means i got to teach everything i taught every subject that you could teach i taught land warfare cqb what we used to call cqb when did that change to cqc was it always cqc for you they would they would switch up between ckb and cqc in sqt and i believe my first platoon it was cqc yeah it was they were really trying to hard like hey it’s now cqc and guys right okay we had we had a new guy a free game my second platoon we had this awesome guy and we had he had to write up like the new guys had to write up their bullet points for their evaluations and he wrote completed cqb training but he had it c cubed like like three to the power of three c cubed c q b and every yeah c cubed b and he was totally serious like he thought that’s what it was called so um and maybe that’s why they had to switch to cqc to make up for the homes but look i got to teach that i got to teach mount or at least go on mount trips marops otb i taught a diving course i taught a freaking awesome diving course and this is back in the day when the diving course was five weeks long and you did you’d take off your rig and climb through pipes up into the piers and stuff and then go do something then come back and put your rig back on spec recon top spec recon so i got to teach everything i was very very lucky and that’s where i felt like i really started to learn and what allows you to be able to learn so much is you’re detached you are you are detached you’re not part of the platoon you’re watching the platoon so you are detached and that’s when you if you pay attention if you pay attention you realize that you can see so much because you’re detached and that really brought it home for me and it’s you know it’s what i wrote about leadership strategy and tactics i kind of figured that out on an oil rig my first platoon about how to detach but then when i realized as an instructor oh you can see everything everything everything when you’re in an elevated position or when you take a step back so that was awesome and then from there i got picked up for the officer program assistant platoon commander platoon commander tasking a commander went through more workups more deployments continue to learn assemble thoughts in my head about how to do things about how to run missions about how to lead and those workups and those deployments solidified a lot of ideas in my head about combat leadership and the more i learned as i was teaching the guys in my platoons about stuff and then the battle ramadi obviously put those theories to the ultimate test and you know we’re able to utilize those those principles for victory but i’ll tell you what it wasn’t until i got home took over naval special warfare group one tradet that’s when the leadership principles that we talk about all the time that’s when they got really crystallized because at that time in that place in my opinion i think that was the best leadership laboratory and instructional facility that has ever existed in the world and look i know that is a crazy crazy big statement to make it’s accurate but the what we were able to do at that time look we had a huge budget the war was in full swing because of our deployment and because of our combat experience in tasking a bruiser being in sustained urban combat man i was given like the widest possible boundaries to push the envelope and do whatever we kind of wanted to do and that’s what we ended up with and look the training that we went through when we were in task and bruiser the train the cadre that put us through training was also awesome so it was not like it was not like this revolutionary change but we took it we did take it even further we took and and even that training you know when when i had roger hayden on we came back from vietnam we still do stuff so it’s i’m not sitting here saying that that this training at that time was better than anything else and it’s because of us no what i’m saying is that the training that you get to do is awesome and when we were in that lucky moment in time because of the way the freaking planets aligned it just was epic it was epic so what we what we end up with is this we have we have multiple arenas multiple arenas of leadership challenges to test and train leadership capability they’re all different arenas you can go to the two that i’m going to talk about the most because they probably had the most power was the land warfare arena and then the mount or south arena and this is another thing that they changed at some point it used to be mount when i was younger which was military operations urban terrain and then it got changed to south which is special operations urban combat but whatever you want to call it these two these two arenas that we were allowed to run these training missions and we were had the opportunity to put platoon after platoon after platoon after platoon through complex dynamic reactive intense realistic high pressure scenarios where the difference between success and failure came down to one thing and one thing only it only came down to one thing and that was leadership that was leadership it was 100 leadership if a if a platoon or a task unit was successful it was because of leadership and if the platoon or task and it failed it was because of leadership because there’s some constants there’s some variables and some constants the constants are look you’re going to be in a stressful situation it’s going to be a complex mission it’s going to be a opposing force so the bad guys are going to be highly capable they’re also going to be tightly controlled most of the time sometimes sometimes my brothers would get a little out of hand but most of the time it’s tightly controlled and then you have a platoon or two platoons of seals now some people might think well you know there’s going to be a variation in the seal platoons and that is accurate there is going to be some level of variation of the skills in a sealed platoon but overall the variation of the troops of the 14 or 16 shooters in that platoon overall when you combine them all together you’re gonna have some smart guys you’re gonna have some dumb guys you’re gonna have some old guys you’re gonna have some new guys you’re gonna have some aggressive guys you’re gonna have some passive guys you’re gonna have all these different big guys small guys you’re gonna have all these different guys and you take them all together and you mix them up and that platoon is going to fall within the margin of error of a normal seal platoon that’s what’s going to happen seals come in all different shapes and sizes and that’s just the out the net outcome that you get when you put them all together is a seal platoon and they’re all kind of pretty much the same thing look there’s a variance like i said there’s a variance but they’re not there’s not one platoon that’s filled with idiots it just doesn’t exist there’s not one platoon that’s filled with told everyone’s a stud it doesn’t exist occasionally we get these stacked platoons occasionally and sometimes they implode and sometimes they do good because again you got the mixture but what would happen when a stacked platoon just depends on how good the leader was if the leader could contain those egos that platoon could be great if he couldn’t it would fall apart so because the platoon is kind of the same functional thing within a within a margin of error the only difference between success and failure ends up being the the platoon the platoon leadership and it doesn’t really even matter where that platoon leadership is coming from it doesn’t really matter it took me it probably took me um one month to figure this out it took me one month before i didn’t care who the leader was i didn’t care if it was the chief i didn’t care if it was platoon commander i didn’t care if the if it was the leading petty officer of the platoon i didn’t care if it was an e5 three e5s that were just awesome and they could make [ __ ] happen that that’s enough leadership and platoon that they can win all day so you talk about when you were running trading it took you a month to really not care where that leadership came from or when you were in your first platoon i would say no when i was when i took over trade out yes i was watching and at first i thought hey here’s the job for the oic here’s the job for the platoon chief here’s the job for the assistant platoon commander here’s the job for the lpl hey these are the roles responsible i wrote those roles and responsibilities out and gave them to people and issued them to people and they were like okay this is cool but then you’d realize you’d have a platoon chief that didn’t know what he was doing or you’d have an oic that didn’t know what he was doing and so he couldn’t handle that job whatever that job was but if you had a horrible platoon chief but the lpo was a badass wouldn’t really matter that guy would just cover for him and and and make it happen and maybe the maybe the chief is good at admin and so he’s kind of oh look man i’ll take care of the paperwork over here you know you got to do your thing i mean it’s not like leif babin was relying heavily on tony of fratty to handle the paperwork for life right i bet you tony didn’t know how to turn on a computer right because that’s not what his skill set was and it didn’t matter one bit late’s doing paperwork his junior officer doing paperwork tony’s running tactics like tony should be running tactics but that can swap yes that can swap you can end up with a platoon commander who’s just a stud and has a good comprehension of tactics and a platoon chief that doesn’t really get it he’s a good guy but he’s not going to add much from the tactical front but so that’s what it boils down to i didn’t it took me about a month to go look i don’t care as long as we have leaders in here yeah i’m happy and so going through this training the training that we had not only identified who the leaders were and then what their shortfalls were but most important it allowed us the opportunity to teach them how to lead that was the most important thing was that it allowed us the opportunity to teach them how to lead and and the lessons that you get learned in these dynamic environments when you feel them you ever heard that thing he who suffers remembers yes so it’s i think i think i quite frankly got that in a fortune cookie at some point in my life i don’t want to tell you i got it from sun tzu or musashi i’m pretty sure there’s also some bible verses around that as well but okay yeah i didn’t get it from any of those i think i legitimately got him from a fortune cookie he who suffers remembers and that’s kind of what happens you go through this training and it’s hard not so much like oh it’s physically hard but all of a sudden you look around and everyone’s no one knows what’s happening and you go i’m supposed to be in charge of this i’m horrible yeah and you i don’t want to make this mistake again and and that’s what’s incredibly um important the one of the key components of this training all of it it was there’s three major components to it it was humbling it was humbling and it was humbling and if you couldn’t if you couldn’t if you approached that training in a humble way guys would just do awesome and we had freaking studs just total studs legendary seals come through that training legendary badass seals come through that training and totally humble and be like yup we screwed that up and just be awesome and they would turn their platoon around and just kick ass and it would be unbelievable and then you’d have other guys come through whether they had a lot of experience or not or whatever their background was where they didn’t have any humility and it would just eat them alive it would be horrible to watch and you couldn’t really help them it was painful you couldn’t it was painful but having this training and running this training and seeing the the the literal transformation of minds to see you could see i it’s a light switch sometimes it’s a light switch for some guys some guys it’s a little bit more like a dimmer switch that’s getting turned on but to see them go from not understanding how to lead to fully being capable of how to lead was incredible and we would see it because in the beginning of let’s say the the field training exercise time of land warfare or of urban training the first couple days you know it’s four or five days maybe six days of training the first few days the platoon is getting annihilated annihilated and as they start to learn the lessons as they start to implement the lessons all of a sudden you fast forward to the last day and the the opposing force the bad guys can’t get anything done they’re getting locked down they’re getting shot they’re getting pinned down they’re getting maneuvered on because the leaders learn how to lead and and that’s why you know eventually we took this this training and wanted to duplicate it for the business world so we could get these same tools to help organizations and and help leaders learn to lead which is the most important skill in the world bar none but jp you ended up taking that you ended up coming over here we’ll get into that but let’s talk about when you came home from deployment to ramadi and you immediately went to buds for a short glorious and uh uh crazies no but just fill us in it’s actually kind of funny i was talking to a couple young teen guys the other day and i was explaining to them that when you came home you went and they were like asking about you and i said you know you know he came home he he went to buds and and they were like oh and i go oh it was no it was bad i mean it was so bad it just it’s embarrassing really you know it’s embarrassing because you we just came back from ramadi and you know i’m i’m looking at all these guys going through training comparing them to mikey and mark and ryan and cowie and all the guys in our task unit that were injured right and that stayed in the fight i mean we had multiple guys get wounded on that deployment that stayed on deployment and then those marines and those soldiers that we worked with were some of the bravest humans we’d ever been alongside and so i’m i’m mad that i’m not overseas because i wanted to still be over there and i got pulled from my platoon and that was what was the worst part is because i had shoulder surgery ended up with some temporary nerve damage where i would just drop something well you can’t be in an active platoon when that happens and so i get pulled from the platoon what phase did they put you in indock so before they even start first phase so how old were you how old were you like 23 i was still 23 yep i remember yeah um i was i was 23 when i was at buds um no i’m sorry i was i turned 24 and then i went there because i had the surgery and the like so there’s a little more time yes i mean not much i mean come back from ramadi yeah and then uh you know we started the work up i was i went to you know i was going to school we started the work up and had to have surgery issues with the surgery you know there i was at the i was still at team three for a while and you know because stone was my task unit commander and i i mean i was just super fired up i could i was so excited to go back and i think we knew we were going to be going to solder city at the time and so anyway so i get pulled i go to buds um and i am just an absolute train wreck right there i’m comparing all these like i said all these guys to mark and mikey and ryan and callie and like right so what are you supposed to be doing in indock you’re supposed to be just pt’ing them and kind of like you’re preparing them for first face right so you’re not supposed to be beating the [ __ ] out of them no i don’t comprehend that well when i got pulled aside and they said hey jp this isn’t first phase you’re not supposed to have this many guys quit yeah i was how long did you last it wasn’t that long it wasn’t long thank god like for the community because i mean so like i said what would you what was your favorite way to torture uh students because i was thinking about this too so you get this leadership laboratory that we had where what we figured out was what exactly what where to apply pressure where to relieve pressure on these leaders to force them to start to understand how to lead and how if they didn’t understand it how they were going to break but i was thinking about it if you’re a buds instructor what you learn is how to get into people’s heads and apply pressure to make them break yeah yeah so one of the um i’ll give you two examples of some stuff like one that was probably like the worst that i did that i definitely should know is there a statute of limitations on this stuff are we clear i’m sure i’m sure the leadership knew about this eventually um it was at the end of the day and they were leaving the pool deck and all the other instructors had gone and that’s a mistake right there all the instructors and i was by myself and there’s a lot of other stuff that was going on in my life so i literally had no life outside of this so i didn’t have to go back home i actually got a room at the barracks so i didn’t even have to leave i was just sleeping in the barracks there like just making these students life absolute hell i mean i was it wasn’t cool what i was doing like i know that i’m very apologetic and i feel really bad now that i’m older and a little more mature but um one of the times i like i took like they were trying to leave the pool deck and someone did something stupid like you know a basic student thing like it should have been like 20 push-ups or you know make them like jump in the pool with their gear and come back out and go but i was like nope i brought them down to the pool deck like so you know the observation like deck down below oh where you’re underwater yeah you’re under the pool and underwater and you can see the people you can see the pool and it’s dark down there and nobody knows you’re down there and nobody can hear that you’re down there so i brought them down there and closed the gate to the compound to where it looked like everybody was gone and beat them down there for i it was over an hour minimum just like just doing different like flutter kicks like the uh belly back feet drills where they’re just rolling all right you guys can’t seem to get in sync and then just continue going through it um so anyways that happened and then another time um i was just walking by the barracks and looked in one of the windows of the the barracks and it was unlocked and i’m like oh cool climbed in their window into their room was jungle inspection opened up the fridge and there was like two 18 packs of beer i was like okay so i emptied every beer into the room and then went and found the class oic brought the oic oic in there and the kids that were in there were underage oh i was like how do you guys want to handle this like i wasn’t going to try to get these kids in trouble for underage drinking because i’m not going to be a hypocrite when i went through buzz i was 18 and guess what i would do on the weekends i would go have some beers with my friends like i know it happens and if you drink underage i know you’re not i’m not condemning this but if you’re trying to go into the field teams and you’re going to have a beer underage like for me that’s not something that’s like oh we can’t trust that guy you know in our especially in our community i know it’s not right i’m not saying it’s right yeah well yeah and nowadays nowadays you’re done yeah you’re done 100 and zero tolerance is an actual real thing now and so there’s i wasn’t gonna i was at least at least stable enough to know that i’m not going to ruin somebody’s career over this that that that’s not fair because that happened to my brother my brother was in a school with a contract to go to buds he would have been like two no four buds classes behind me and he was training in a school got injured and so he got rolled back to where he couldn’t class up had surgery came back most kids in a school right they go off base they have some drinks he came back came back they had been drinking turns out like was was he underage yeah he was underage he was 18 at the time and um he got in trouble and they were like who was with you drinking he’s like it was me i was the only one drinking they’re like who was with you he wasn’t gonna say anything he was gonna rat on the guys at all i didn’t know about this until recently until a guy who was in the teams at a different command running training told me he’s like the reason why i’m still in the navy and here is because of your brother i’m like what he goes yeah your brother covered for all of us my brother didn’t like was like nope it’s just me so my brother ended up getting admin stepped out of the navy for underage drinking dang he lost his contract to go to buds and everything yeah so i knew that happened to corey and corey’s a freaking stud you met my brother he’s super smart like he’s one of the smartest guys i know he’s a he was a physical stud still is and just i wasn’t gonna be yeah i wasn’t gonna do that so i gave the oic aoic an option and we secured them for the weekend and it was just uniform inspections about every 90 minutes and um yeah a crappy thing i didn’t know it until i came to check out muster001 with y’all met jamie cochran and she’s like yeah you might know my husband he was in the teams and she was like his name’s flynn i was like i don’t know i don’t know fine and then later on i see him i’m like what’s up bro and he like gives me bro hug and i was like what are you doing here’s like my wife jamie she’s like you guys know each other and he goes yeah as instructor janelle i’m like cochran that’s how we knew each other i didn’t know and flynn tells jamie he’s like yeah jp is the reason why i missed our wedding i was like what well that weekend that i secured him he was oic he didn’t tell me he was supposed to be flying up to seattle to have a wedding him and jamie got married but then they were having a big official official they did the official one but now they’re doing a party official doing a party for all the family well he i secured him that weekend and so he missed out on that and i was like oh this is great so this is my first introduction to jamie five years ago and yeah so yeah when i was an instructor at buds i was i was thinking about when i went through buds what some of the instructors used to do and some of those instructors were evil evil yeah you know the you know about the the red circle right the red circle and dive phase where you’d have to bear crawl with all your gear on until there was blood in a circle from guys like hands and feet getting raw and just crazy stuff like now there’s i’d be surprised if some of that stuff still went on yeah well they may have other ways hey they have other ways and there should be other ways to there’s thin the herd and hold that there’s uh that training is freaking hard right now oh yeah it’s it’s probably harder i guarantee you it’s probably harder and just in a different way but yeah they’re not like like i mean i had a instructor that got in trouble because he would test the sharpness of the knives by cutting people’s freaking palms right like that’s what is happening that’s crazy yeah he got in trouble for it uh we had an instructor that got in trouble because we had to do push-ups on the back of our hands with twin 72s on our backs and yeah yeah i mean you’re just hell hey why don’t just why don’t you just hit people’s freaking hand with a ball peen hammer just to call it good well one time i came back to the court like i said i lived on base i mean i had a room i lived with derek benson who is my homeboy for since like we checked in the teams together and just really you know another good team guy from northern california he had an awesome house we lived i lived there but i was so obsessed when i was a buzz instructor and i saw i was living on base like i said i had the room in the barracks and i was staying there and i i caught um a guy at the quarter deck watch asleep and i just beat his boots off man for like three hours straight and then i made him call the oic who lived down in ib he had to get dressed he came in i was like where’s lpo so he calls him he lives out in town as well and it was just a beat session until all of them got there and i explained what happens when guys fall asleep on watch overseas and i told them about the stories that we’d hear about marines being murdered because somebody fell asleep when they’re in in a building right or soldiers that same thing had happened to him it’s the same thing that we would talk about when we were in ramadi we weren’t going to let anybody else be in charge of standing watch unless you were a team guy because we knew we couldn’t like we weren’t going to let the iraqi soldiers like hey you stand watch okay cool just gonna fall asleep like leaning on his rifle and his toe on the trigger like it’s just crazy so yeah i was i was wound real tight what was the straw that broke the camel’s back that what was it was did anything specific happen where they’re like all right we gotta get this guy out of here it was just constant like i i didn’t so the problem is because i remember i i know they called you specifically yeah they were like hey basically you need to come get your boy yeah because i feel like a straight ramp over there i was separately assigned i was temporarily assigned duty to the command so i was getting ready to actually i was probably gonna get in trouble because i i didn’t well the horrible thing is like i didn’t respect the chief that was in charge of the training he was a piece of [ __ ] team guy he just didn’t represent the teams and well in anything with his life his reputation the teams you know we’re we’re instructors at buds and he is grossly overweight i’m just like and it wasn’t because of an injury there are some guys that have injuries that go there that’s one thing no it was his actual lack of discipline just it was i had zero respect for him and so he was the one that was like pulling me aside and trying to like hey you shouldn’t be doing this and i’m like you’re going harder yes yeah i’m like okay yep roger that you know that that that feeling of this is the same type of feeling that i would have so when we’d be out at mount or something like this when when i was running it and i’d see like a guy standing in the middle of the street and i would get like a knot in my stomach i would i would start to sweat and i would get so kind of so emotional about like hey this guy’s going to get [ __ ] killed yeah and and i can’t imagine like here you are you’re having the same feeling but oh this guy’s falling asleep on watch this is a night this is i can’t allow this guy in the teams like that level of commitment and emotional commitment to wanting to make sure that the guys that are gonna make it to the teams are the best freaking guys and that was me i was trying to make sure that these guys were ready and it was a very it was an emotional thing it was an emotional thing yeah i was a hundred percent like i my my marriage at the time was falling apart and i was okay with that because i was more concerned about the teams and in hindsight like okay cool she was a good person we weren’t good together like i’m very thankful that that didn’t work out because of my family that i have now i’m very thankful but i was so just in the t like that’s all that mattered was the teams the teams the teams and i yeah i just i was like you just said i was just emotionally involved and connected all the time you know i i saw guys that i put through training and they’d come back through training later on like the training we ran and then i see them out in the teams and i’m always like hey man i’m sorry they’re like bro you cared about the teams like we’re good with that and it’s funny because the guys that made through training that turned out to be good team guys it bothered none of them not one of those guys ever were like yeah that kind of sucked they were just like bro you were in the game like you just came back from so they they understood it yeah and what you just said is you know the the leadership thing right you’re so emotionally invested in getting these guys trained and developed and when you took over training you saw the void of the leadership training our tactics are ridiculous the amount of money and the high level training that we have when it comes to all the like the tactical stuff that we do is is awesome can we make it better all the time yes we’re always trying to make it better but we actually didn’t have any actual leadership development and it showed in all other areas of the teams and i know i’ve talked with you a lot about this is i was very aware that i was young and immature and not going to be a good leader i knew that and i wanted i craved that leadership development and training and i saw that outside of the military like i was reading business books and personal development books because i knew i just needed that and the teams didn’t have that until you i always thought it’s crazies you didn’t go to like leadership development training until you’re in e7 e89 i’m like crazy they need it as an e3 e4 e5 e6 where there’s a large portion of our community is at that rank and they have a large amount of interaction with other forces out there they need professional development and leadership development and it wasn’t until you took over trade that we didn’t have that yeah the it was really strange the way the teams used to be and you it was all ojt and you were gonna learn you learned your leadership skills from whoever your chief was whoever your platoon commander was you know your platoon commander is probably gonna learn from his chief but which is awesome if you have an awesome chief and if you don’t have an awesome chief you don’t and and sometimes you’d get it like a platoon chief coming through our training and you’d he’d have issues and you could pull the thread and see like who he did his lpo for who he you could kind of figure out what his background was because you would just get this string of people that just weren’t really the best leaders they were you know people that led through their rank or people that didn’t understand tactics and so you end up with you had a very wide variety of a wide span of skills that these leaders had and there was no one there was no one teaching them all right here’s here’s what you need to do as a leader so when i put together that freaking leadership brief it was like okay it was i was very lucky to be able to do that and that’s what that that’s what was cool that was awesome for me and you know it’s funny because i never said to like i never said to leif or to seth like hey here’s the four laws coming i didn’t say that to him what we did yeah i was like hey dude hey you need to you put your machine gunners out if you’re going across the road why you need a cover for them you need a cover for okay that’s cover move like dude your plan is freaking way crazy complicated so those guys got it over time you know um just through repetitive interactions of saying dude what are you doing trying to get a head count right now you’re freaking getting shot at what are you doing like stoner would be like roger you know like no handle that [ __ ] and so all those i had a bunch of things in my head but when i got to trade at that’s when i was like oh i well that was a that was the huge eye opener for me i had leif and seth and the and the officers and be able to say like hey we’re gonna do that iteration again we’re going to be here for a month at land warfare i’m going to get to teach you this little things make little adjustments but when i took over trade it was like oh i’m going to see this platoon for a week here and a week there in a week there and i need to dump them all this information as quickly as i can in a way that they can understand it so that’s why the very first thing that i went the very first training evolution i went on went back and wrote down those four laws of combat it goes on one of the things that we talk about and we teach at ashland front is when you put somebody in charge of training or in charge of just anything it changes the way they think and naturally so you had been thinking this way for your whole career but it wasn’t until you were in charge of trade it that you were actually more mindful of oh yeah and then you just sat and you thought about it and it’s it’s one of the things that we do obviously in the field training exercises is everyone gets rotated through different positions of leadership but you started really implementing it at trade it where every or actually no i’m sorry in our task unit where everybody was going to be in charge of something oh yeah yeah and it was like hey biggles you’re in you’re the tasking commander for this run what jp you’re going to be the acting platoon chief what but once we were in those positions of leadership it forced us to think differently and then once we had that new you know thought process it changed the way we operated going forward and that’s why training is so critical to success yeah i was thinking if you were right or not and you were right because i was thinking if i would have just done another task unit i would have done the same exact same thing i wouldn’t have i would have trained the guys the same way and i would have trained the guys through more of an indirect method of like hey let’s do that again oh you need to make sure you’re covering hey make that’s a little bit comp i would have done it the same way i did it with leif and seth and the rest of the guys like hey this is what you’re going to learn over the next year i wouldn’t have said oh this stuff needed to be distilled down here’s the way it’s going to be and i need to kind of get this formula that people can utilize immediately i would have done that if it wasn’t if i hadn’t been put into training so yeah you’re right you’re right i think i you know whatever i heard like a little rumor or whatever i don’t know who called me but someone you know basically it was like colonel troutman was getting the call like you need to come get your boy because because you’re gonna have to give the reference so people understand what you’re talking about oh rambo rambo colonel troutman you know rambo’s out in the woods um uh you know killing civilians killing friendly civilians there are no friendly civilians but he’s out there doing that and they have to go get or colonel troutman shows up to get him out and freaking get him back under control and i got some kind of a call like that and it’s so funny because everybody knew 100 that i was 100 going to absolutely take you bring you shield you and there was going to be no beef about this whatsoever no one even made like any reference to anything other than this is 100 good to go jocko you you know jp you’re not really fitting here too well come get your boy all good it wasn’t like hey this guy no one even no one even would say a negative thing about you they were just saying like hey you you might he might be a little better if he goes back working for you again i’m like jack 100 i don’t know who it was i want to say i mean through that was so long ago but i feel like it was z i feel like some you know it might have been bobby so bobby was there uh-huh so he pulled me aside a few times and i had always had tremendous amount of respect for him yeah yeah which was awesome yeah he’s a stud guy i always looked up to and there’s a few times like he pulled me aside and i was just like so well and tight but this shitty chief that was in charge of us just completely like even though bobby was like kind of ran me back and i was like okay yeah and then this guy i was like nope gotta go harder and tell i mean he might have i don’t know i don’t know but he might have reached out to z z got a hold of you either way it was i was probably gonna get in trouble and um they were like oh he’s tid he’s where is he attack oh he’s still at team three but he can’t go back there jocko bring him to trade and i remember when i went there because that day i checked in there i went how to talk with you you introdu you introduced me to a few guys and it was i was like this is where i need to be and i i still i know we’ll get in this a little bit more i there was i was excited to be there fulfilled to be there but i didn’t fully grasp well yeah it took you a little bit they took you you still wanted to be overseas shooting people yeah which is a big um gaping hole in your heart when you’re not overseas shooting people and instead you’re back in america which is just boring and miserable and you didn’t want to be doing that whether it was instructing in doc students or at trade but yeah we just had to make a little connection between you know you being at trade at and by the way making sure our guys are the best trained in the world yeah and that’s the conversation we had yep um and then you went right you went you went right into salk did you go right into salk yes yep it was sal and ckc i was i was running i was in in both and then salk is when uh i think i was there for a year and then i became the lpo of salk so let’s talk a little bit about um salk and what’s interesting so this is again this is urban training we have a few urban training sites that we would use we would set they were very realistic very realistic training we had set designers come out to design things to make them look like they were little villages in iraq or afghanistan um we would have speakers with noise simulations coming over them i remember we had we set burn we set tires on fire and because i remember the first time i went into ramadi at night the moose had set fire set tires on fire all the place totally screwing up your night vision and i was like damn these these dudes are next level they’re smart yep and i was like okay and sure enough we would have the fires going we’d have the noise simulators going so you hear like urban noises and then you do then comes the call to prayer and it’s very realistic when i would put down my nods because i’m an instructor whenever i’m in my instructor mode when i would put down my nods and start walking i would 100 percent feel like not overseas i was i was in iraq so the realism is legit totally legit um the interesting thing is that coming into the training we would tell them exactly what they needed to do to win and this is what this is why this is what’s interesting so going to cqc when i go out and watch cqc you’d have some instructors that would like to talk a lot and you’d have another instructor that or another group of instructors where they do a little bit more action a little less talk a little more do and you take those two groups like there’d be one platoon with a talking instructor and one platoon with an action instructor and so the talking instructor he’s sitting there telling stories and talking about this and giving all these details and talking through it again and hey watch this and watch me do this and let me explain to you this and talk and talk and talk and talk and then there’d be another guy like hey here’s the basic here’s the fundamentals all right start doing it and almost well it’s guaranteed that the platoon that started doing it is going to learn it quicker the platoon that just gets to hear about it it’s not going to it’s not going to land now look you need some level of instruction somebody needs to tell you like this is what we’re doing this is how we do it you can’t just go blind obviously but what’s interesting is we would tell the guys hey here’s what you need to do to win cover move simple prioritize and execute decentralized command you need to do that if you don’t cover and move out here you’re going to get shot up if you don’t have a simple plan it’s going to be insane and we’re going to have a bunch of problems you need to prioritize next year by the way you need to use decentralized command because things will be happening that not one person can control you need to detach take a step back like we would tell them these things we would tell them but they would understand it but then you got to go and do it you got to go and poop get put in to those situations i mean i’m just writing so much down like since i started talking i just want to hit all these points but um what you’re just talking about goes along with i remember when i was at trade at one of my chiefs told me as an instructor he’s like hey we have to teach these guys how to think not what to think because the battlefield is very dynamic and these guys need to be able to think on their own and it wasn’t until we actually had them out there doing it it doesn’t matter you can give a scenario all day long you can tell stories but until somebody’s actually putting their hands on it it doesn’t matter i you know i teach shooting on the side and i can talk about it all day long but until i have somebody actually loading rounds into a magazine and then locking the slide to the rear and be like oh that little butt yeah that’s how you lock the slide to the rear and i can talk about all day long but if they’ve never done it to watch somebody fumble over the most basic thing that i think is just the most basic thing ever but if they’ve never shot before it’s actually a real big deal locking slide to rear putting a loaded magazine into a gun releasing the slide making sure round’s chambered these are things that you and i do without even thinking no thought whatsoever no thought what’s up i can hear the slide go forward and know if a round is chambered or not whether it was that magazine seated all the way was it not did a round actually get chambered and i’ve done that before i’m like there’s nothing in there and i checked the magazine it wasn’t fully seated check the chain yep no round in there because we’ve done it hundreds of thousands of times someone who’s never done it they actually have to do it before they can feel it and when people feel it then that’s what that’s when it it comes home like you were saying earlier like when you when you make a mistake and you feel that mistake when um the cool thing about the ftx program is i’ve been able to build a team you know and cody’s been on full time with us for she’s almost over three years now we just got carlos mendes on on board full-time or i mean you know all these guys that have on the team are studs you know callie danny and we do what we teach right and so now my team is doing all the classes all the intros in the morning so i can be detached i listen i observe i come in with my points when i need them and one of the things carlos always says that i always said that cody always says that you guys always say is hey when you make a mistake where it costs you something you feel that and you remember it and it’s just that’s the power of training is when you can feel a mistake you’ll remember that mistake there’s something when you said you got to do it right it’s so strange the experience that you can watch people have as they get wrapped up and absorbed and overwhelmed by the mayhem and this happens when you run your ftx’s when i’m out there i’ll watch people go insane they’re totally they’re having an out of body experience like an out of mind experience it’s crazy to watch and sometimes they don’t even understand it i remember when we first started getting video cameras and we started videoing training this was like the first time i would say i videoed training was maybe in the late 1990s hey let’s watch our room entries and see what they look like and occasionally you’d get a guy that would just do something so insane and they wouldn’t even understand that they had done it they would they wouldn’t understand that they had done it and you’d have to say look at the video watch watch what you just did we’d be like hey you backed out of that room i didn’t back out of the room no way okay watch this there you are literally backing out of the room right you didn’t even understand that you did it i remember i used to have my little audio voice recorder so i used to carry a little audio voice recorder echo charles yes sir and the reason because at during these nighttime ftx’s there’s all this stuff happening and you can’t write notes so i would just most of the time i’d just be saying oh they pulled a guy off the flank over there that guy’s left by himself that this is gonna go bad i would be making notes to myself and then i’d come back and be like hey you guys left that guy on the flank that’s how he got left behind so i would make notes myself but then sometimes i would use it to capture the audio of what was actually occurring of people losing their minds of people yelling screaming giving crazy orders not under like i would record conversations that were mutually unintelligible between two people where two people were talking to each other and neither one of them it made you could play it it would be a senseless conversation that made no sense whatsoever they’re talking about two totally different things like one guy’s like we need to get back over there another guy’s like yeah we do but one person is talking about back over there behind the building the other person’s talking about back over there across the street they’re talking about two totally different things and you i would record them and and then play it back for them and they’d realize how absorbed and how you get into this mode where your world is shrinking you’re you’re getting target fixation you’re it’s the opposite of detachment you’re doing the opposite thing you’re just getting fixated on what’s right in front of you and it’d be a total disaster but what’s good is when they’d hear that video or they hear that audio and you’d see the look on their face like damn dude i suck i suck i sounded like an idiot i sounded like a complete idiot and then that would be a way to kind of crack the ego open and crack the mind open and for them to be like dude what are you saying i need to do yep here’s what you need to do take a step back man when this stuff starts getting crazy when people start yelling if you’re yelling you’re the platoon commander if you’re yelling and screaming this is not a good indication so as soon as you start raising your voice think to yourself why am i raising my voice right now what it what is happening i’m not saying you never have to raise your voice because sometimes you do sometimes you gotta you gotta get control things but if that’s what’s happening you know something’s wrong so guys would that’s what would start to kind of get their minds open sometimes where they would start to realize like oh i’m not as good as i thought i was and i just held a freaking out of body experience and i think i might be an idiot that that’s what makes the field training exercise remember when we run an eschew on front that’s what makes it the most impactful form of training that we have at echelon front because you’re feeling it like you said that late this isn’t just me saying because it’s my my program right it’s because it’s the truth like you actually feel it you come back from a run and you’re humbled and you’re sitting there and the first thing we do is we debrief that run all right what was your key takeaways and we’re always very clear remember we don’t care about the tactics we’re not here to teach you tactics i don’t if you were supposed to come up on the east side you went to the west side it doesn’t matter what did what was your takeaway that applies to business or your personal life and so people are like you said that you just cracked it open they feel that it’s humbling um we had a guy you’re talking about like people just saying crazy stuff we’ve we’ve heard this one multiple times it’ll be like squad one line up on the left squad two line up on the left yeah and people are like look around why and they’re like why is nobody moving they don’t realize they said that we were running one a few weeks ago up in michigan and it’s one of our scenarios where i’m not going to give it out but anyways it’s a stressful situation and also we we changed something on them it’s a prioritizing execute run and the guy’s sitting there and they come up with a plan and somebody asks a question he’s like it’s the plan that they came up with we’re gonna do he was quoting as if it was somebody else’s plan but it was his plan that he just came that he’s telling the team to go but he’s so overwhelmed and i remember i was watching him and he like just drops the laser tagger to the side his hands to his side and takes a step back and looks around and goes we’re going to do their plan oh i’m writing this one down yep have you ever heard that jason gardner story jason gardner they get done they’re at cqc they’re like out out right here in socal just in our little kill house they do a run and they’re standing around debriefing and one of the officers cracks off around as they’re standing there debriefing it goes between like a guy’s legs and the guy the guy looks up and he he goes he was decocking it meaning he’s talking about himself in the third person as if that’s the exact same thing dude like you’re when you start referring to what’s happening as if it’s someone else in a bad way this is not a good sign i stole your uh your voice recorder trick for when i got out and i was doing sales and i’d be driving you know i would start off cold calling and then i’d just go to appointments and i was more efficient on the road but i would try to hit as many people as a day and i get done with a run well i had to take notes on the conversation i just had so i could follow up with the right contract and everything else like that but i also couldn’t sit in a parking lot for 15-20 minutes because i had other clients i had that anxiety that i needed to go go well i was also commission based only so i needed to get out there and so i i bought a a recorder and i’d get done with the meeting as soon as i walked out of their doors to my rental car i’d start debriefing myself on that meeting as i’m driving in the next one stop and then i would do that and then at the end of the night i would listen to all those notes that i had for each one generate the emails contracts whatever get them sent out and it was i mean i stole that from you from tradex it was efficient i have some of those recordings i sent i sent a group text with some of those recordings some some team guy because team guys used to record me debriefing now it wasn’t me wasn’t those things i do have some of those things too still some of them just out in the field like like hey what’s going on right now i have no idea we’re all gonna die uh so some of the problems that we would throw at the teams obviously giving them down men was was a big one and giving them civilians to deal with putting them in an ied field we’d build little simulated ieds so things are blowing up [Music] kinda they would end up with split forces for whatever reason whether we set up a target where it made sense for them to split forces or we would just drive some situation that would make them split their forces give them target and then change the target so they’ve got like updating intel and so that there’s a bunch of problems right there and we haven’t even mentioned that there could be an enemy shooting at you right so those problems down man civilians ied field split forces changing targets you haven’t even encountered the enemy yet right so so you know it’s gonna get wild and then once we start bringing the enemy on and that’s when you start to get into you know barricaded shooters and you’re taking massive casualties and hostage situations you know we would capture the one of the seals we get left behind we’d capture them i mean i used to give 72 hour liberty if you could get a seal like if jay i’d be like all right boys you bring me back a body you bring me back a live one you got 72 hour liberty remember i brought brought you back a few and one of the times i actually took the the guy’s camis and gear off of him oh yeah and then put all the clothes back on and then joined back in with the group and just started murdering everybody from the inside got into one of their humvees drove off came back was like shooting them with their own 50 cow and they’re like like what does our guy do like because i was wearing the kit and the camis and it i looked like i was one of those guys yep yep and that that’s the kind of mayhem that would go down well it didn’t help when you’re like jp activated done eyes rolled back like a shark what can i get away with oh man uh and here’s here’s the deal like i said before all those problems they can be solved and they can be solved by utilizing the laws of combat leadership and if a leader didn’t step up and again i don’t care what leader i don’t care if it was an e5 i don’t care if it was a new guy if someone in the platoon didn’t step up and and start to lead everyone would die everyone would die and that was another interesting thing that we could do sometimes is is pull take a platoon guy and be like all right dude you come walk with me on this run and you can watch and you can see how this unfolds and then you give them the ability to detach or sometimes just while some craziness is going on it walk over like hey dude camera get off your gun come over here step back with me and look and see what’s going on do you see what’s going on yes do you know what decision to make now three seconds ago you had no idea what to do because you were looking down a corner pulling your trigger and nothing was happening everything was stagnant i pulled you off that corner someone picked up for security for you now you look around and it’s really obvious what you need to do isn’t it yes it is so you have to let people see and feel like you were saying feeling the the laws but feeling what it feels like to detach and then they realize okay that needs to be my protocol that’s what that’s what i need to focus on and the improvement and the learning curve would be so fast once guys started doing this like i said uh by the end of the salk training by the end of land warfare training the platoons would be able to crush the instructors most of the time most of the time yeah occasionally someone would have a failing troop and they just couldn’t get it together and they would get recycled reloaded yeah one of the things i wrote down when you were first talking and then you said it again is just as a reminder when i when i was acting as a role player my at the beginning of like them coming out there for that training i would literally just have on a pair of gator sunglasses like not a mask nothing else because i wasn’t really worried about being shot up too much like i just i was really confident in my abilities as an individual because when you’re moving as an individual if you’re good at what you do you actually have some advantages but as the training would progress along the groups that were really starting to get it i knew i was like oh this next round’s gonna be really bad for me it’s like i have a picture of me i’ll try to find it more one of the runs i didn’t have a i forgot to grab a ball of clava or and i just had my gator sunglasses and i got shot two to three times in the face with simunition and those plastic rounds were like sticking out of my cheek and my but that’s what would happen is when they would use the laws of combat we couldn’t beat them even us use them because it’s a full platoon yeah yeah and when you’re moving as a fire team i i can’t do anything unless i’m acting as a sniper from a distance yeah i’m gonna have that advantage but even then if they’re using the laws of combat and they they understand the situation then they’re gonna they’re gonna pin me down they’re gonna maneuver on me they’re gonna call in air support they’re they are going to win when they use the laws of combat it’s the same it’s the same thing for every aspect of your life i don’t care what your business is if you decide to use a law as a combat you will win personally and professionally and i just remember like when guys would be progressing and training i just knew i’m going to get my ass kicked and there was times that i got my ass kicked as a role player and i loved it because it meant that we were doing our job 100 and it meant that those guys were going overseas and what they were going to do those enemy fighters was going to be glorious and they were all going to come home yep and that was the purpose that’s why that was our mission yeah yeah it was so rewarding to see them start to step up and and see the leader start to lead and see the e5 mafia start to take control of stuff and and then it would just be mayhem and mayhem for the role players you guys would be doing everything you could cheat lie freaking sneak bring yourselves back to life just do everything you could and they would just kick your ass because like you said there’s 40 of them and there’s maybe six seven role players and you’re just gonna get your ass kicked oh well what if you come against a force that’s 40 you know why shouldn’t we train to fight against 40 people well no we shouldn’t because if we’re not gonna go fight a fair fight we’re not going to fight 40 against 40 enemy fighters i’m gonna bring four thousand yeah exactly um and we would put them in scenarios like that as well where what the right call would be to back off leave oh this building is so well defended that you just kept throwing bodies at it and throwing seals at it and they keep getting killed keep getting killed keep getting killed no just take a step back get your jtac to drop a bomb on that damn thing that’s one of my favorite i wouldn’t i would say my top favorite run that we do in the field training exercise program is it doesn’t matter what they do if they keep pushing forward they’re all going to die and it’s not until we get done and we in the scenario and we end it right there and we we do a debrief real time so they can see it and feel it and they’re like [ __ ] yep and then it’s like okay so you have a business you’ve invested in some marketing campaign the return on investment has been zero what should we do go harder put more money into it okay so we put more money into it what’s the return on investment now nothing okay what should we do well it was my plan i think it’s a great marketing plan let’s put more money into it and we continue to go down that path we don’t take a step back we let our ego drive our decision-making process and we realize that everyone dies we lose all of our money all of our marketing money for the year because we got committed to a plan that didn’t make sense and so those the kinds of transfers of knowledge that goes from this this thing that you feel during the ftx into a thing that translates directly to how you’re running your business we we call that scenario murder hole [Laughter] and it was really cool uh we we did that with a group that we had going i mean the amount of diversity of people that come through our field training exercise program is is incredible i mean we’ve literally seen every walk of life come through that training you have guys that are super fired up i mean they’ve got they got the jocko haircut they’re wearing the jocko t-shirt when they show up they’re wearing the origin boots origin jeans i mean they are in origin belt like head to toe origin jocko fuel they’re like jocko podcast stuff i mean they’re like ready to lead 100 yes absolutely and then you have the complete opposite spectrum where it’s an individual that you look at them and you’re like okay they’re not you know on on the path when it comes to their health or working out or you know just you could tell that in some of them they don’t want to be there they’re they’re there because their boss has made them come because we do corporate and then individual ones and i remember we were doing it with this group and there these people were they were too smart a group of engineers and we get done with that murder whole scenario when we stop and we we stop in real time to show them the train and you know and this lady you know if you were to judge a book by the cover you’re probably like hey she hates this she doesn’t want to be here like at the beginning of the day that was just probably her body language we get down with this run and i’m just talking through it and she goes can i can i say something i’m like absolutely she goes this represents and she goes down this path of like something that happened she goes we were working on this coding problem and it should have been like two weeks she goes seven months later and she goes this is that that’s exact this is what we do all the time because of our egos we get sucked into projects because of our egos we need to actually detach and we need to actually understand what our priorities are she’s going through every all this i’m like this is awesome that’s it it was so cool and she just has this big smile she goes this is the best type of training i’ve ever been to and then i was like all right you guys ready for lunch and it was like the run right before lunch we go back and it was for me to sit back as an instructor and and watch the guys run the training and and have my points and i have my points written down and then for the student going through the training to literally hit all my debrief points beautiful was incredible because it shows that they’re actually taking on board what were what we’re telling to them but the reason why is because the training is humbling like it’s you’re going to be humbled in the training i don’t care who you are you you’re going to be humbled in that training and that’s what’s awesome is because that’s when their learning really starts to happen yeah the first time we tried it the first time we tried an ftx with civilians um you know leif and i were doing it this is when the echelon front was basically just life and me and yeah we were we tried it and you know you don’t know what you don’t know what the reaction is going gonna be you don’t know if the people are gonna make those connections those correlations between leadership on the battlefield and leadership and everything that they’re doing and it was so awesome i mean it was you know a bunch of stories that exact same type of story like oh this is what we’re this is you know ops never supports sales this is the problem and you’re like oh you don’t cover and move for each other this is exactly right you guys are never there for us and this way so you get to see these things real time and and as soon as we saw that that application and how well it correlated that was when i was super stoked for you to come over and with the long-term goal of taking over that program running that program and and growing it so talk me through talk talk us through how what does that program look like right now not like the broad program but like let’s say i got a company and i re i i hear about this thing and i want to bring my team together what am i doing what is my i got 20 people i got my leadership team my executive leadership team what does the program look like so it we’ll do a like a preliminary call with the client to kind of figure out exactly what they want to do and uh you know jack daniel he’s he’s been doing all those calls and then it’s for an ftx he then does another call with them and me and jack’s so awesome he’s like bro you’re so busy i don’t want to put and i’m like hey if it’s for an ftx put on my calendar we’re doing a call and i just because i really want to understand what their intent is what are they looking to get out of it because every ftx it’s customizable to your industry your problems what you have going on now as you know the principles are universal that’s what’s beautiful about this and but but we can make things to where they’re different than the others to drive home certain points to to you and in your team so we do that call and then um you know now because of covid the virtual world like we used to have real quick examples yeah i’ll have a company and they’re growing rapidly and the younger leaders aren’t stepping up and making things happen and on a call they’ll be like look we need to have better decentralized command yeah and then it’s like hey jp let’s let’s set up some runs to make sure we really drive home the point of how necessary it is for subordinate leadership to step up and lead that’s the kind of adjustments we’re making so we can drive home specific address specific issues that a company has yep absolutely so we’ll be able to do that i put them in put in the notes and then as we’re building out the scenarios we’ll be able to kind of change through all the different scenarios um but you know most of the time we do a half day or a full day class ahead of time to make sure everyone understands the principles uh you know we talk about the battle ramadi a lot of combat my sister victory do some application drills if that’s something they want if they don’t we just do a quick virtual to lead them up to it because the ftx program you’re gonna learn the principles real time so depending on the company’s time and or budget some companies they don’t have two full days where they can take the full team out of the field that’s fine well we can send over a pre-recorded video that everybody watches or we can do a one-hour two-hour three-hour virtual session ahead of time to prepare them with the principles and then we we come to them or they come to us they can come to different locations that we have the flexibility that we have with this program is incredible and then the actual ftx is it’s all the hands-on application so we’ll show up in the morning we’ll put them into their their squads we’ll sign the leadership positions we’ll give them an intel brief and then they get a plan their first mission and go out there and i think did you skip explain how you teach you give um you know mary who’s never handled the weapon before yeah never been into uh never been never handled a squirt gun before yep and now all of a sudden you’re gonna have her clearing rooms and i know when when we first started actually with you i had to be like bro you’re not going to make these guys into seals in two hours they need to have the basic fundamentals of how to enter a room in a safe way in a systematic way so they can clear well that’s that alone is a great example of me not asking enough questions from you and life to get like your actual commander’s intent on the field training exercise program because in my mind i’m like cool i’m going to teach them tactics i’m going to tie in leadership and it’s really important that they do all this stuff and it’s like no actually i don’t have to teach them any of this because we’re not here for the tactics so yes we start off we give them a hey here’s what to expect brief like it’s in all of our notebooks we we brief them on safety we brief them on the fact that hey you’re going to impose more stress upon yourself than is actually needed everyone kind of chuckles i’m like just you wait and see and then after first couple runs everyone’s like man i am putting too much stress on myself am man weird it’s like we talked about that and so we we run through all this stuff to to set the stage so they know what to expect and then we give them their gear and so we invested into these high-speed laser tag systems which by the way is what we used in lan warfare we usually don’t use those in our urban training but in land warfare in the seal teams we used a high-speed laser tag system that this thing is the civilian equivalent to yes it’s freaking legit it’s and that was a complete god thing because when we were we ran a few ftx’s it was all it was airsoft and that’s cool because you’re getting shot but there’s a there’s a major safety concern with airsoft and people are lifting up their mass because they get fogged and like having to stop training and it took away the from the purpose of the training which was leadership and as we say all the time communication is what ties everything together and they couldn’t properly communicate doing airsoft or paintball because the mask so i reach out to a team guy buddy i’m like hey i know you did like some events for kids and you had laser tags like can you give me that guy’s info so he sends it to me i look it up i’m like oh these these aren’t what you would think for laser tags they’re pretty legit it’s not looking like a nerf laser no it’s not looking it’s not like neon green which by the way props to nerfs i’ve i know you’ve heard me talk about this those nerf guns the nerf lazy tag guns that i raised my kids with are freaking legit for teaching tactics by the way just fyi yeah i mean if you’re teaching your kids that yes um how it wasn’t what we needed for the ftx program and we had a client that was that told us hey we want to do this but there we cannot do airsoft or paint we cannot have any safety risks i’m like okay so i reach out team guy buddy gives me the info i look up 35 minutes from my house from one where you just moved there to texas and i’m like okay thank you lord i go meet the guy guy was a veteran expl i explained to him what we’re trying to do and he’s like well i’m actually changing these systems to where they looked very realistic and i was like okay this is awesome so we invest into them and so we have the gear the sensors and so what we do is we just cody and the guys they give an awesome class on hey here’s how you use these taggers these taggers are tools just like you have tools that work like you in order for you to get the job done your tool has to be used properly so we explain to them how to use the taggers and so when we have somebody that’s super nervous i’ve had people say i’m not comfortable with guns and i’m like that’s good you shouldn’t be comfortable around guns unless you have training that’s a that’s a good feeling that you have but once you understand the use of weapons you shouldn’t be scared if you know how to use them properly and i told this lady it’s like it’s the same thing for these taggers one these taggers can’t hurt you that’s why we invested into them so even if you accidentally pull the trigger and it’s pointed at you or somebody’s face you won’t hurt them the lady’s like okay that’s good i could she was super well tight and rightfully so she had never been around a weapon or a toy gun at all and then um which for me it was a realization of like the things i just take for granted of just my what i’ve been around just it’s not normal for most people and so that was when we really shifted over to hey let’s make them feel as comfortable as possible like if they’re not doing something right make sure we’re not being like hey you know getting onto them like we would team guys or marines because team guys and marines are very good at going back to that default of like hey you stupid like okay they’ve never done this before so we have all the guys there and they’re like helping them put on the sensors and hey you want to plug in the sensor and we go through a class and we say hey these are your sops for how to use them throughout the day before you you know you you get your intel you plan the mission you brief the mission you get approval then you’ve got to go find the key guy the key guy’s going to turn on your guns that key guy is a minimum wage employee that’s only job is to turn on your guns every single time we get that brief every company is like oh we got one of those guys it’s just a minimum wage person that affects whether they can go do their job the learning point there is how do you treat that key guy and we’ve had everything from hey [ __ ] you need to get our guns on because we’re running late and i was like oh i wonder how that works out for you yeah excuse my language to all my church friends that are listening i apologize but that’s like you were quoting someone yeah but that’s the extreme like we will have that we’re like so we go we give the class and then we let them have fun like all right hey shoot the guns like shoot them as fast as you can here’s how you reload it we teach them how to put like a basic patrol and i always tell them like hey guys these are not tactics these are the basics these are tools single file dual column here’s how you get a head count and so we give them enough tools to where they can actually go be successful in the first couple runs based off of the level of those first couple runs when you talked about was interesting just just to point out you were talking about the amount of stress that gets created and i just wanted to say that a lot of times people think oh well you know these are seals they must be talking about all this physical stress but it’s actually almost no physical stress it’s all it’s all mental stress it’s all the confusion the chaos the mayhem and because the physical this isn’t a physical evolution no this isn’t a physical evolution there’s no in fact you don’t allow people to sprint or run that’s part of the inbrief no running absolutely no running for and for multiple reasons one safety like hey if you run you roll your ankle you hurt yourself your trip fall you hit a tree you want these buildings now you’re done and you’ve taken away from the purpose of the training the purpose of the training is for us to work on our leadership skills for you actually go through the runs and i always tell the story of like when you’re running trade it when somebody would do something they’re not supposed to you would say hey stop doing the enemy’s job you get arrested out in town you can’t deploy you get in a fight you break your hand you can’t deploy you can’t run training you can’t do whatever you’ve done the enemy’s job so i always we tell them that to make it real like hey don’t do the competition’s job by taking you out of this training you need to finish this training people always say is when you say don’t do the competitions job i love i love watching people looks on people’s faces body posture change and i mean we so to go back to that lady she didn’t even want to touch attacker and i’m like cool just hey you know what here let’s get you a chair we brought her a chair we had her sit down there like hey just watch just watch the class by the time we get done with the class she comes up she’s like hey do you have an extra like set up for me and i’m like callie will get you taken care of and she goes over cali gets her sized up runs through like hey real quick let’s make sure you’re good with it and that lady was a rock star yeah well if you think about it from somebody that’s maybe not familiar at all with the military not familiar at all with weapons and they’re just intimidated by it and then they sit off to the side and go oh wait a second this is legitimately like they’re playing tag yep but they have teams this is a game that we’re about to play and i i think i should play this game and we’re not going to get hurt so that’s another thing you know we’ll work with companies well you know we we got people that aren’t in the best physical condition can they walk down a hallway then then they can do this training and what’s interesting so we’re saying all this stuff look you can’t run you can’t get hurt you can’t shoot or you’re you’re not going to shoot somebody um no one’s going to get injured you throw all those things out it’s like oh that might be kind of lame right mm-hmm and here’s the thing i was just thinking about like chief shy freaking police chief oh yeah when the first time he came through one of these things totally blown away ft executives it’s the the leadership lessons that you learn and we got we got all kinds of vets going through going god i wish i would have had this when i was in the military so believe me even though it is even though it is like it’s it’s contained and it’s presented in a way that is very safe and very professional professional and very um almost this is the word i was looking for trying to find the word benign it seems benign it’s like oh wait a second we’re like we can’t even run and we’re just gonna be moving around and these are just laser tag guns it seems super benign you’d think oh this sounds like it’s not gonna be that big of a deal and then you go to run number three where people are like i need someone else over here yeah we got another and we have guys total chaos yeah you’re not supposed to run and people are sprinting people are going crazy people are losing their minds people are giving orders that don’t make any sense all this stuff happens from a benign laser tag system that’s what happens that’s what unfolds it’s crazy i mean we’ve actually we we had a guy that had um multiple sclerosis too he’s like i mean he had like a cane and so we were doing the classes he was sitting in a chair my guys like took care i remember watching how my guys took care of them without me even having to say anything and i shocker got a little emotional watching that because i was like my guys know it they get it you know what i mean like cody and coward were taking care of this guy and he this guy had the biggest smile on his face because he felt because i know when he showed up i remember he pulled me aside he was just like hey i’m probably not gonna be able to do anything and you could tell he was upset because he wanted to be a part of it and then when the guys were taking care of him like for him saying like oh this is cool it’s on it’s on to the point where our guys were like cool all right he can’t keep up the group he’s not gonna be able to walk we can drive him out to the play field and so we would drive him out there the role players would drive him off as a sniper and he would be put in places and it was awesome because i’m listening to radio and i’m hearing the role players go dang it this guy keeps picking us us off and he was a huge part of the training um you know this one lady came through she’s like hey i just got done with my chemo you know i’m not going to be able to do too much when we’re like okay cool do what you can we have positions for you you can shadow me and act as the ground force commander and relay information and it was after two runs she was like hey can i get in there and actually have a position of leadership and i said absolutely we changed up the reorg and it was cool seeing people who showed up with these self-imposed limitations they they came up with these excuses or lack of better word for me i’m not i mean this to them in a derogatory term if they’re listening but they had these excuses as to why they wouldn’t be able to perform and then when they realized that that was all bs that that was imposed upon by themselves nobody else gave them those limitations they gave them to themselves and they saw like oh actually i can be a part of this oh i can actually lead oh i can actually do this i can learn it’s incredible i mean just the transformation that you see from we had a lady who was like we we gave out the leadership she comes up she goes when you say gave out the leadership what you mean by that is you assign leadership for different iterations yes okay yes each run has a new set of leaders so you like you’re saying your company of 20 people everybody’s going to go through multiple positions of leadership to where they feel all the different like stresses oic officer in charge assistant officer in charge squad leaders fire team leaders or just the shooter where you’re just trying to listen and do the work it’s it’s incredible but the slaves you’ll learn something new in each one of those levels and you’ll see things differently from each one of those levels and you’ll become a better leader by serving in each one of those levels like denver whitten from dagon construction came to ftx001 and he was like super frustrated like and he’s a very motivated very smart dude has a very successful construction company out in the phoenix arizona area and he came out to it and he was just like i remember i remember watching him and listening to him the comments he would say about the other guys and then he got put in a position of leadership and i think he said it to leif i’m pretty positive he goes i now know what my team feels i now know what my team feels and i’ve been doing all these things and it was for him to have that aha moment and then two weeks later he hit us up and a week and a half later he goes hey i need to run an ftx for 50 of my employees so we did two days of ftx training with a half day classroom on the back end of how do you implement right strategically how do we implement all these takeaways so you see all this stuff happening real time from all different walks of life it’s it’s ridiculous so i cut you off you’re talking about a female yes so thank you because i was like what where did we go this one um so we give out the leadership and she comes up and makes a comment and goes well that’s a mistake putting females in charge and i look at her and this is from a company where they have a culture where if you say something offensive like you’re you get in a lot of trouble and i looked at her i’m like if somebody else said that to you would you find that appropriate and she just pauses she goes well i’m just being real right now i’m like well that’s actually a lie saying that just because a female is in charge is going to go bad i’m like that’s a lot i was like i know a lot of badass females that run companies that are kicking ass i know a lot of badass female leaders in the military that did some phenomenal things i’m like don’t oh so she was like serious when she said oh she was dead serious she wasn’t she was dead serious like okay just like this is gonna be horrible like body posture like like gun down to the side like and i was like okay so immediately i’m like there’s something there like there’s something deeper there obviously for her to be like she was not thrilled and just thought i was gonna be bad so i talked with carlos and cody like we give the intel pull them aside i’m like okay we just keep an eye on her we need to like pour into her because she thinks it’s going to be horrible like we need to make sure she gets the burp and lows and cody like yep got it cool we go do the run obviously we put a bunch of stress on her so we wanted her to feel it like we do everybody it wasn’t any different but we were just very mindful of making sure we were watching and i s you know because we’ve had some people come to the training where they just stop they’re like hey i can’t do this is too much i’m like yes you can like come come over here real quick let’s talk through it and they’re like okay and this one guy was like that was all me i put too much stress sorry i won’t let that happen again self-imposed stress it was to the point where the guy wanted to stop training he tried to physically stop the training so i want to make sure this didn’t happen to this lady just fyi if you feel like you are too stressed this is a massive red flag that’s telling you to detach take a step back take a breath which is as soon as you you said that guy okay step back take a breath he’s like oh okay i can see what’s going on all right i’m ready to rock and roll yeah and and so i really felt like i just i knew there was something else with with this lady so we get back from the run it it was hard but guess what they accomplished what they’re supposed to accomplish we get done with the run we’re doing the debrief and it’s in one of my notebooks i remember wrote down what she said um but the greater point was just the limitations she had and i asked her because she said something or her takeaway was uh don’t limit what you’re capable of and that was like awesome and i said expand upon that a little bit and she goes well i just i didn’t think i’d be capable of this position and i said why she goes well it’s it’s a little bit deeper i’m like what do you got like this is like this is the time for let’s talk through it i said if you’re comfortable if you’re comfortable with it she goes well for my past i said okay like and i know i’m like riding a line that this could go really close but i also knew as an opportunity that if we could talk through something that she never has to go through again or just is able to let go of something then our day has been worth it like you know that’s what we’re here for is stuff like this because that’s going to make her a better leader if she can let go of these you know limitations that she’s put on herself she goes well when you come from another career where your life was threatened and you know you you know your life was actually threatened she goes because you weren’t doing what you should have done she was like i i carry that what was her old job we didn’t ask i just didn’t feel like it was a time um i should have afterwards just to get a little more like i guess information or situational awareness but you know and we talked through it and i said well hey i’m glad that you came to that realization like these are one that’s the purpose of the training is for us to fill these things and realize like hey these tools work when we use them and all the other stuff that we have in our mind it a lot of it’s all bs because it’s that’s not the reality and then we did our end of the day debris like our key takeaway so we do all the runs we rotate through different positions and then at the very end it’s like hey what was what was your biggest takeaway that you’re gonna leave this training with to implement back home and hers was you know same thing like i’m not gonna let my past define me she goes today is a fresh start and i i always try to explain that when i’m talking with clients is like that’s what you did when you came in and tasked in a bruiser hey we’re not attaching a bravo we’re tasking a bruiser all the other stuff doesn’t matter like this is who we are and this is what we’re going to do and i like to also tie that in when i’m talking about ramadi you know when we talk about like hey will you come back from the point when we talk about the cost and the burden and all that stuff i try to make it very clear when i’m talking with individuals or large groups like we’re all going to have those dark times we’re all going to have those things from our past that could hold us back if we allow them to but if that’s all we focus on like anger frustration darkness guilt doubt all that it gets us nowhere and i know we’ve talked about this multiple times but we have to focus is the lessons that you’ve learned and more importantly what are you going to do going forward and that’s the big thing that we talk about in the field training exercises like yes hey you guys made mistakes but what are we going to do going forward as a group if we’re not sitting and debriefing and coming up with new standard operating procedures we’re wasting our time if we were just to reorganize all right hey new leadership go new leadership go new leadership go there wouldn’t there would not be that progression that we get if it wasn’t for the debriefs and the debriefs are an awesome opportunity for you to do some self-reflection and that’s what’s powerful is that self-reflection yeah well what’s interesting about that is this this training program in situations like this which i’ve seen and you’ve seen when it goes beyond business application beyond the combat application obviously beyond the business application and it starts to get into people’s souls and sitting there listening to people debrief seeing grown men weeping because they realize that they’ve made mistakes in their lives seeing you know women apologizing for behavior that they know they they shouldn’t have done and it was negatively impactful to their family like seeing those deeper those deeper changes that’s always uh it’s always amazing to see that this stuff applies and gets through yeah gets through to people’s souls it does i mean one of our larger field training exercise clients one of their upper executives you know the company i’m talking about everyone that we’ve been interacting with since 2018 running these ftx’s all of those key leaders they they don’t just know the principles they actually live their principles they apply them they believe in them and guess what every single one of those individuals has grown within the ranks like multiple tiers of now high level executive leadership positions and the individual i’m talking about he’s just been in the game since day one with us helped us bring the program to them he sent me a text and i always forward them to you and leif and and jamie and dave just so we’re all aware of like the impact that we’re truly delivering i know we know it and i always give it to my team and i i like to if i’m in person with the guys be like hey just so you guys know this is what you’re a part of and as we grow this you’re gonna have more and more and more of this because if we do what we teach and we do it the right way which we are you all are going to have teams eventually running this training and this is what you need to focus on is the impact that we deliver everything else it’s important but it’s the impact that we deliver that’s what you have to like strategically that’s what i want you guys thinking about and he sent this text where one of his his executives that works directly his his direct report said that training fed my soul thank you i didn’t realize it’s what i needed holy crap it’s just it’s incredible to see that impact and i wrote this down it’s one of the things you’re talking about is when you were running training you said literally we could almost do whatever we wanted so i wrote down wide boundaries leadership capital withdrawal return on investment so it reminded me of when we went back and you were running training and we literally could do whatever we wanted and the reason why is because the training we produced delivered results it we had guys come back from deployment saying the hard training you guys put us through kept us alive it kept us alive and i remember when i was being an absolute jackass at training i won’t be very clear i i’ve said this multiple times i always want i know i’m in a unique position working at echelon front i wasn’t this phenomenal leader in the seal teams i wasn’t like seth or leif or you or dave i was in some unique positions and there was times where i was a good leader but i also know that i was a jackass and that i was you know that i was that that guy that my leadership had to deal with so there’s no there’s no one on the t there’s no one at the echelon front team that doesn’t have that caveat bro no one just fyi yeah but i might i mean we want to start pulling apart you know yeah yeah go deep how deep you wanna go i know but there’s no one that’s why we’re here yes and i know but i also know that because i have that background perspective i do at times appeal to a larger base than some of the other instructors because i can relate to all the different levels and and i get that so i want to be when i’m like talking through this stuff i want to be like i don’t think i was this phenomenal like perfect leader in the military i was a good team guy i think i think i was a good team guy i believed in the mission and i remember when you pulled me aside because i was struggling with some personal stuff that was starting to affect me professionally that’s when you told me like hey your job is to be the best damn instructor that you can be so that we don’t have to put our uniform on to go to another funeral and i know i’ve shared that story before multiple times is when i realized that it just changed my perspective and when we started delivering that impact that’s why we were able to do whatever with with training and because the amount of leadership capital that you built within our community by delivering the absolute best training it allows us to make large withdrawals but if you make a large withdrawal that has a high return you’re actually at a higher level when you come back it’s like basic investing i’m gonna pull a hundred dollars out but it’s gonna make me 150 cool keep doing that every time you’ve ever made a withdrawal in your career especially in tasking a bruiser and i trade it the return on that investment was ridiculous and that’s what we try to tell companies like hey if you’re gonna make a withdrawal there better be a large investment there better be a large investment and the more relationships you have within your team the more trust the more trust you have the more influence and you can actually go out and do those things and that’s what people see real time in the training yeah i remember you had a situation there was a safety incident took place and the report came back [Music] if we hadn’t just gone through this training this would have been a complete disaster if we hadn’t just gone through this ftx training this is a um let’s say a a oh yeah a company that does dangerous work you know dangerous construction type work they had a safety incident take place and they reported if we hadn’t been through this training whatever it was two weeks ago this would have been an unmitigated disaster we were able to get control of it prioritize and execute and decentralize command we made things happen and got the problem solved much quicker than we would have had we not been through this year so i’ve talked with the leadership about that and i asked like hey how can i share this what can i share because i know some of it’s sensitive so i’ll share what i know we can share there is actually a death on a job site and it was we had been running a week of ftx training and it was on a friday it was a beautiful day and i remember we came back from one of our runs and i was looking around and i could see people’s posture changing as they were looking at their phones and one of the guys comes up to me and he has tears in his eyes and he said hey one of our guys just got killed on a job site and it brought me back to when when seth was like hey mark just got killed it it brought me right back to them and i remember sitting wow that’s all i could think about is just like i i didn’t think i was dealing with this stuff anymore and so i said all right you know you guys kind of let me know i’ll give you guys some time to kind of think about it and everyone’s kind of like checking they’re talking and there’s a few people crying and they’re upset and so i make an announcement to the ftx team and and to the client you know and i just shared with them i said you know hey i told you you guys deal with human life just like we did in the seal teams and you guys have a very dangerous job but it’s a very critical job as well if you guys don’t do what you do people can suffer like people’s lives and businesses can suffer bad so it’s necessary that you guys do your job but it’s very dangerous so we go through this whole talk and i you know i said hey i know one of you guys have to leave because it’s actually your your teammate i said you guys have hit all the training objectives and so we can be done and this would be a good day of training or we can do one more run and we can do it to honor this gentleman that just got killed because i’m telling you right now leadership is what’s going to solve every problem within this organization if we pulled the thread there was a leadership failure somewhere that allowed this complacency to creep in and this individual just got killed because what this guy was doing he had done thousands of times over his career it was literally thousands of times and so we finished the run we finished the day strong that was a friday we had another week with them that we were supposed to do at the end of that month two days later we get an email from the leadership saying hey we’d like to talk to you guys about you know some stuff so we we get on a phone call with them and they’re like hey can we do another two to three weeks worth of training before the end of the year we’re like i don’t know if we can we might i think we might have a two-week block open in december but december in your region is miserable and they’re like here’s the deal so they took the reason why is because when the executives showed up on this location where this individual had been killed it was a situation they’d never seen before because there was no pointing of fingers there’s nobody blaming it wasn’t the union blaming corporate corporate blaming you there is none of that when they showed up everything would have been taken care of the executive leadership was being told what they needed to go do hey we’re already doing this you guys need to go do this boom boom boom everything had been taken care of and there was no blame there was no arguing none of that and then the ceo and some of the other leaders sat down with the union president and some other leaders i was like hey how do we make it toward this never happens again and a union president said we go all in with the echelon front leadership training that’s the only thing that’s going to keep this from happening again and the ceo goes okay and the executives are right all right we’ll see what we can do and that’s when they came back to us and said hey we want another two to three hundred leaders put through this training and so we put 400 liters for that training in 2018 2019 we’re supposed to do a bunch more and we have continued to have a great working relationship with this with this client but it was a union president that was telling the executives we need to go all in with this training because he saw firsthand well the reason why everything was running so smooth at that fatality was the leaders had gone through our training earlier that week that’s that same week and you know it was you know i’ve had a few members from that company go it was a complete godsend that we had your guys’s training that week because it was a real it was a real hard thing for them to handle and i mean they’ve also explained to us like how their culture has changed i mean it’s been a drastic and you know you know some of the details it’s awesome of just change and it’s just you know when when we talk about complacency and leadership solving people’s problems and we kind of get personal and we explained to them like hey that problem is a leadership problem that is a leadership problem and you allow complacency to creep in people get offended at first they they get offended but then we kind of change the tone like let’s pull the thread if we pull the thread enough it goes back to a leadership problem that allowed the complacency to creep in because if we go to war with that complacency and we combat it and we do what we’re supposed to do we mitigate all those things that’s what we talk about being default aggressive that’s what we tell people hey default aggressive isn’t a mindset for victory against another human being now in combat yes but we’re not talking about that we’re talking about being default aggressive to improve a relationship work on your communication being default aggressive to mitigate safety risks and if you’re not allowing that complacency to creep in because of the leadership that you have because the culture culture is the ultimate form of decentralized command and so if your team knows what they’re supposed to be doing they don’t cut the corners therefore we keep our people safe and it enables like you’re talking about in that scenario like hey i’m not having junior leaders step up they see enough in in the scenarios that we run there’s a void of leadership guess what we should do oh johnny step up i don’t have an armband i’m not a leader and i just look and i tilt my head and they’re like roger that you know and it’s just it’s amazing yeah it’s it is you know all problems are leadership problems and what does that mean the beautiful thing about that is that means leadership is the solution and that means that we can solve the problem we can solve these problems it’s liberating and that is a a powerful powerful thing um hey man i mean we work with so many different companies i was gonna i was about to i was about to close it but it’s like hey that’s one company and we work with all these different companies i know tech companies financial companies uh manufacturing companies construction companies energy companies and just every different facet and every different type of group you know from the tech world to the financial world and the lessons are learned and the the culture is changed and leadership rises to the surface to be the solutions the problems that these companies have yeah i have to show i have to show love for groundworks because you talk about a client that’s in the game for sure i mean matt malone i call him mr malone he always gets pissed off at me he’s like it’s matt and i’m like okay i have a real i can’t just do that i have a hard time i can’t you know ever since i was a kid that’s the way i was raised but matt at groundworks i mean he saw the power of extreme ownership he read the book and was like hey this is this is what i’ve been looking for came to a muster pay for some guys to go the muscle with them came back was like hey we want to engage with you guys we did a we did a little trial ftx with with a bunch of their leaders and when they saw that ftx they’re like okay we need this i won’t get into all the details of how they run their business and what they’re doing but i can tell you they are extremely successful growing expanding dominating the marketplace like dominating and one of the cool things that they do is every small every company they acquire their their goal is they’re acquiring small to medium companies in their industry within 90 days they run an ftx it’s legit and the reason why they do that is to show this new company that they acquired their commitment to them to develop them as leaders to give them hope to give them like the tools to lead and be successful and he says there’s no better program out there to implement the lessons and the principles that we need but also to tie in the culture yeah because it’s like hey this is how we do things at groundworks you’re now part of our tribe yes you’re still this company right you’re whatever that company is you’re still them but you’re also a part of our tribe and it’s i mean just to see like i get the goosebumps like to see companies that are that committed to see an individual like matt that that’s com that is that committed to their company’s growth and development it’s impressive i just shared with you one of the personal examples of that guy that pulled me aside recently was yeah i mean just it’s incredible yeah it’s a it’s a huge impact and that’s a great example like you said of the of a company that is just taking these taking these leadership principles i’ve been applying them continuing to applying them applying them at scale yes which is awesome and continuing to see success after success after success that’s [Music] that’s another great example of the many companies that we work with that go out there take these principles implement them and dominate yeah and it shows them one thing that i’ve written down i wanted to hit is the importance of like like the diversity of people’s like different people’s ideas and backgrounds um that’s one thing i was talking with the company i’m like the reason i feel one of the reasons why the seal teams were so successful is because we have like true diversity of skill sets and thoughts in in how we conduct business hey i can have a a platoon full of 18 jockos and that’s going to be an awesome platoon but he doesn’t have all the things that i need not as good as a platoon full of 18 different people yes not even close yes and i only see what things one way my perspective and that’s not what we want i want to have 18 different perspectives yes and that’s what people see real time in the ftx program is as everyone’s rotating through different position positions of leadership we actually we develop this workbook for them so that afterwards they can capture their their takeaways and you see the the takeaways evolving as the day goes on because there’s all these different ideas and thoughts and the diversity of a company that now they say like oh so and so like her ideas are awesome his ideas are awesome let’s get them to work together and at the end of the day when they start working together when they start applying the principles it sucks for my role players yep well that’s that’s what i was talking earlier when we kicked this thing off i was talking about a seal platoon and i was like oh you got all these different types of people in the seal platoon and you got some smart guys you got some educated guys you got some uneducated guys you got some short guys some tall guys some slow guys some fast guys you got somebody that was born with a silver spoon in their mouth you got someone that was raised in the ghetto you’ve got all these different people with all these different perspectives and that makes that platoon strong that’s what it is it’s not like you said 18 jocko’s cool that’s great but that’s not as powerful as 18 individuals that all bring a different perspective a different mindset a different viewpoint and that’s what makes a platoon strong is all the differences that people have they they you get to see more you get to see the problem you get to see a problem from multiple different angles you know when we when we go out in the field and do a reconnaissance of a target we don’t just look at the target from one side we do a cloverleaf around the target we we back out we go in from another angle we back out we go in from another angle we go all the way around so we can see as many different angles of the problem so that we can figure out how to solve it so if you have 18 jockos that’s one viewpoint if you have 18 individuals you got that clover leaf you get to see as much of that target as you can possibly see and that’s how you’re going to solve the problems i’m smiling because you’re saying the cloverleaf i just i watched cody do this with a group the other week they’re briefing their plan and they’re just kind of sitting there listening and you could tell like it wasn’t the right plan and so what him and carlos do instead of saying hey you should do this they just ask questions yeah hey what if like so i see you have your guys right here and you have your guys right here and so they’re split so that would be split forces right so we want to make sure they know what we’re talking about and then carlos just goes if somebody pops up in the middle you have to shoot like would you be able to shoot them and it’s every single time like the client who has zero tactical yeah training goes oh that’s yeah we shouldn’t do that we shouldn’t split forces right yeah that’s a good idea and cody built this train map for the large client that we have that we have all the work with he built a actual 3d terrain map of the play fields that we use and they were going through some stuff and cody just grabbed the oic who was on one side of the table looking at it and brings them around to the other side i was like hey what do you see and you’re this is nothing major but just the changing of that guy’s perception from over here he saw it in a different way he goes yeah we shouldn’t probably go up that way and cody’s like i like your plan check hey you’ve been talking about a bunch of our corporate clients but also yep what was it last year was that last year we started the first ftx individual ltx well this year march okay so if somebody wants to like let’s say i’m just fred and i this sounds awesome and i got i got a small company i can’t i can’t bring an echelon front to teach my company because i only got 22 employees but i got three people my main you know subordinate my two team leaders i want to bring them so we have a program for that too and how’s that work yeah so we have the individual program the individual ftx program to where an individual like you just said can sign up and come to the training or a guy like denver wetton who’s like i think i want this but i’m not sure like let me go test it out he came to the training tested it out and me it was like i need two days worth of this training um and so we went to the next one the next one is in april um i want to say april so it’s not the dates aren’t locked down yet no i’d have to put my camera okay but we’ll go to echelonfront com go to go to um events muster individual one so ftx004 it’s gonna be in dallas fort worth so we’re gonna be back in dallas again in april in april so it’s kind of cool yes the weather’s gonna be perfect yes and it’s so it’s the last week in april whatever that monday tuesday is i wanna say like 23rd 24th something like that um that we’ll be having that one in april and then we’re looking depending on how that one sells out we have some we already have corporate clients that are like putting locks in our calendar on 2022 for ftx’s i know so ftx 005 and 006 we’re not sure those dates and locations yet but right now and it’s gonna sell every the first three sold out uh it’s gonna be in april so an individual can sign up for it it’s two full days of training so you’re getting two full days of those field training exercises well we’ll do the check in meet and greet on sunday give out the pre-mission bags with all their gear and then on monday we start the class we do overview we give the classes and then the run admissions all day we have a team dinner and then like kind of open q a with you leif myself and then on tuesday full day run of missions and then we’ll do jiu jitsu afterwards as well yeah and um awesome debrief at the end to kind of capture and make sure everyone gets it well freaking right on um awesome i’m so glad you came to ashland front and you’re taking this thing and running with it it’s just it’s amazing to see the impact uh on individuals on companies on businesses on teams it’s just how freaking awesome and that we’re able to take these lessons and and pass them on and people can put them to use to go out there and just and just do what they’re supposed to do in the world yeah it’s awesome yeah well thank you for the opportunity once again yeah uh echo charles yes sir we’re over here you know we’re running ftx’s and we’re uh we’re doing jiu jitsu we’re lifting sure you know yes learning leading right seems like we might want to get all the help we could get in some of these departments what you know it’s true what do we got for support recommendations uh well well we can talk about a lot of stuff but you know in the physical capability realm okay yeah we do uh appreciate the support when we can get it wait jp’s here why don’t we just talk about sour apple sniper all day you know we could we could jp okay let’s rewind you’re at trade with me how many energy drinks are you drinking a day what do you think you’re what do you think your worst like your max energy drinks a day was and we’re talking like the big ones that had 300 oh that was six to seven eight oh i know it’s not good yeah that’s bad that’s bad no it’s real bad yes sir it’s a freaking disaster it was absolutely yeah god all right so what are those means where people are like this is my body like with all the check lights like oh yeah i can check out lights all over the place that was that was you me i traded me on the outside doing sales as a financial company it’s been me for a long time but not anymore that yeah like i don’t know we’re talking about that and you know like whatever say whatever you want about me i don’t have i could not make something like that and sell it to people i couldn’t yeah as far as i’m concerned i might as well be a drug dealer that that that is a drug dealer that is a that is a person that has given freaking crystal methamphetamine to people and and knowing that they’re going to get addicted to it knowing that you’re hurting their health probably going to kill them and you don’t care because i’m making money i could not do that from a moral standpoint as a human couldn’t do it zero chance and yet i kind of felt like i got to do something because otherwise people are out there they’re visiting the meth dealers right going to 7-eleven there’s a meth dealer in there yeah in a in a freaking uh uh icebox and there’s a short-term benefit that you need that i need sometimes that echo charles needs sometimes hey you need hey look it’s a long day whatever it’s last night i got i don’t know i guess i got like three and a half hours of sleep i actually woke up at 4 30 i was like okay if i’m not feeling it i’m gonna go back to bed i was like i need more sleep i tried to go back to bed i couldn’t go back to bed i couldn’t go back to sleep so i just got up worked out and but then i then then we’re in here i’m tired or i was tired when i showed up then i so what do i need i need something to help get over that fatigue what do i need oh i’m going to have one of these things do i want to go down to do the crack house and buy some rocks because that’s going to hype me up too right it’s going to hype me up right that’s a terrifying thought yeah it’s going to hype me up but guess what it’s going to kill me yes so we’re not doing that no so we made something that you can drink that’s literally good for you literally no downside makes you feel hype hype is that a good word well approved disapproved is not you know you’re shaking your head i sense it i’m not there yet we’ll say that what would be a better word i was digging deep through the old vocab i like i like fired up that’s the traditional i don’t like though uh i don’t know i think i’d prefer hype over fired up hype it is then i’m mad jp anything better than that i mean not everyone’s gonna fully get this but there’s a few times i’ve cracked these open i just tell myself activate yeah that’s true yeah you want to get out there that brings me back to like jacques jp activate on the radio there you go yeah if you follow me on instagram if you ever see you on a post and if i have a hashtag activate it’s for that it’s just hey just yeah so when jp jp would be the bad guy one of the bad guys and the platoons would be like trying to work through a problem or whatever and they’d just be screwing something up screwing something up screwing something up and they needed to pay the man i just come up on the radio like jp activate and he would come out of a spider hole or a false wall with a with a mark 46 a freaking simulation and just lay waste i remember one of the times i was like waiting for it i’m not gonna say his name because he’s still in but his nickname man bear pig so which was very fitting for this human being yeah it was terrifying and he was like now the new lpo and his towards my end as i was getting out and i was just like waiting i was like he could tell he’s like hey he’s like wait wait until jocko gives a call and i’m just like freaking out like just like waiting because i was so hyped up i mean i i loved what i did i loved every single day of being in the sealed teams and it’s the same thing now at echelon front running these field training i mean people were like man i don’t like you i don’t get it like how do you keep on like because i love i literally love what i’m doing and it was like the same thing he’s like wait just wait hold like hold like hold and all of a sudden you’re like jp activate he’s like go so if you need to activate activate i like it boom if you need to activate freaking crack open one of these and you’ll get freaking activated kick out that door start laying the waste with a mark 46 yes the right way yes nope no price you don’t pay no price later no no you just go we’re not doing the freaking nazi thing putting our guys on uh on meth yeah yeah they deal with the devil you know yeah it’s like oh what do you need oh you need that oh yeah okay and then they collect that check afterwards right you’re in big trouble sometimes big trouble that withdrawal jp was talking about that withdrawal not what we’re looking for no no no all good so yes jaco discipline go or are we going with jocko go because it’s kind of interchangeable kind of interchangeable yeah that’s the energy drink that’s the one that we want this one we want to stick with sour wrappers sour apple sniper it’s a good flavor dude they’re all good flavors they’re they’re all good flavors and i can tell you personally the ftx program is run and fueled by the discipline goes because we get them sent to every location ahead of time jack daniels just he’s in the game he takes care of that i used to do it he’s like i got it i’m like oh he’s like jp i got we have them at every ftx for our team for all the prep ahead of days ahead of time all the stuff they’re doing um and then also for the client as well and we have to put it out like hey you these are healthy but you don’t need to drink one after every single run because they taste so good we had one guy i was like watching and i was like hey he’s like what’s up i’m like come here real quick he’s twitching well no because you literally could drink six of these and be equal to two of those larger drinks from the devil and and so i pull them aside i’m like hey how many he’s like i’ve had one after every run i’m like you’re drinking water for the rest of the day i’m like you’re good it’s still like not an unhealthy level i said but man like you’re just you don’t need to be doing that he’s like they just taste so good i’m like no i want that i was like i’ll let you in on a little secret i know that in the future they’re talking about hopefully having caffeine-free versions he’s like okay dude he was so excited this guy was in the game we’ll get there oh yeah and it makes sense good because the you know how when you drink a different drink or whatever you drink one you’re like cool you drink two and you’re like okay two’s kind of good whether it be the flavor the heaviness of it or whatever doesn’t have that and has electrolytes too so i can dig it he’s drinking one after every run yeah i suggest mango that’s my suggestion i was talking to a gentleman i’m not a little bit a little bit biased but hey maybe it’s the you’re biased too jp you said i said they’re all good they are you gotta throw out the bias okay so one guy he was talking to me he was like hey i’m gonna um i’m gonna try either the orange or the mango yeah carrot was with me he witnessed this whole thing okay and i said okay you’re asking me this okay all right i said i think if you want to go a little bit more exotic a little bit more risk try mango yeah if you want to go to the the the fried and true you go orange yeah i think uh sour apple sniper is kind of like on on the same level as mango as far as that goes i think no i don’t think so you think it’s more tried and true no i think it’s tried and true the the thing with the sour apple is it’s the sours it’s a lot more it’s a lot more sweet than sour i mean it freaking tastes good good it’s sweet it’s freaking sweet so orange is sweet sour apples definitely sweet mango has some exotic to it it’s still sweet yeah it’s sweet um yeah so a lot of people they like they love they love loving they think it’s like way better but then some people are just straight up not down actually one person for the mango yeah you mean me yes you’re right i don’t like mango that that savage will throw you off because you don’t know and then you taste you’re like oh yeah like why is this so good like you’re trying to figure it out and people that loved you know dakota meyer starting a distribution company yeah as he should yeah he just decided he’s just gonna become a distributor of the drinks yeah so he started just rolling into places and now he’s just going on the war path so i’ve like not at that level i think so he he was talking to amanda about it at the vegas muster and she’s like that’s that’s amazing um you know that’s how i got introduced to the new jiu jitsu gym i’m at is through dodeco it’s for mega right and at his gym double five and it was setting him up so i have i don’t even know how many gyms i have under me as like wholesalers because i can set up them at the same thing yeah and then i found out uh um the dakota was doing that as well yeah he’s doing that like freaking he’s got grocery stores and stuff yeah dude he’s so awesome so yes stay in the game over here oh good of course very exciting stuff but yes stay in the game with all this stuff helpful i’ve had today by the way i didn’t eat breakfast or lunch and i had one of these at the house same here yeah it’s good two of the pills with it just you know got to make sure you’re floating in your bottle for the flight um also don’t forget about your joints don’t forget you know you talk about complacency creeping in like not but yeah but sometimes that that’ll come on slowly where you don’t notice then one day you’re looking at you’re like man am i gonna feel like i gotta warm up just to live my normal life right you don’t want that no so you take the joint warfare the super krill oil just keep keep everything in line man it’s good you’d be happy you did also vitamin d3 and cold water this is for you immune immunity yeah greens by the way just have the green freaking you’re saying some good stuff about the greens they’re really good yeah but you used a particular case you did i thought you were going to go into it i thought that was like pre-podcast talk but i guess no no no no no let’s say you have uh some cocktails or some wine with your significant other sure so amanda and i were having some have some drinks and uh you know the next day i’m like this is exactly why i don’t drink i don’t drink i don’t drink for this reason went and grabbed two scoops of the greens half water half apple juice tasted phenomenal it felt amazing afterwards greens greens greens is kind of amazing it’s kind of a miracle you can also do it right before bed like so if you have some drinks you know maybe you shouldn’t be drinking and but you do and one or two scoops of the drink of the greens water right before bed so we got hangover prevention we didn’t even know it official we didn’t even know it but we have it if we’re talking about the um you know how you feel things real time like when i have the greens i feel really good really good study sample size of one you know that’s where it starts 100 percent for the factual it’s true factually also milk don’t forget about milk you want some additional protein yeah it’s hard it’s hard to forget about moisture right right but yes that’s a that’s a dessert there’s nothing there’s nothing there’s nothing that you just sit there like you’ll be into some a random spot and just think man i really want to bowl right now that’s the thing there’s no other even steak even steak i won’t have a i won’t have a a craving for a steak as much as i will have a random yes i really want a mulk right now yeah yeah that’s how tasty have you have you mixed soothing have you mixed the greens with the milk no i have not done that that’s bold it’s bold think about this vanilla gorilla with the greens getting crazy over here it’s really exciting yeah because if you know vanilla protein powder with fruit right if you’re if you want to make a smoothie you’re gonna put some frozen fruit in there right well the greens have that fruit flavor the pineapple and the coconut so it’s it’s really good interesting because yeah that’s kind of how mo the nature of milk can be is you mix some other stuff in there a lot of hey look i stick with the chocolate so if i put anything in the chocolate put a little bit of a frozen banana and that’s sort of ripe oh yeah that’s the one right there but yeah especially with the vanilla you can mix all kinds of stuff in there yeah just enhance it it’s good you know tulsi’s done a lot of amazing things in her life yes sir and the only thing that you seem to care about is that she told you to put half right bananas in your freaking monk bro that girl’s a damn veteran she’s a congresswoman she’s a surfer she’s a fighter and you’re over here talking about rotten bananas going into mulk and that’s like the deal well let’s face it uh tulsi’s surfing abilities and you know her service and stuff play less of a role in my day-to-day life check okay but i’m just saying that frozen banana uh mulk let’s face it it’s facing kind of a game changer yeah daily she didn’t do much for you as a as a representative of of hawaii she didn’t do much of you as a combat vet going overseas that didn’t help you out but day to day she’s all up in that mulch the mulk train she gives good advice hey you get the drinks you get the drinks at wawa on the east coast we’re going into a bunch of other stores right now i’ll keep you posted on all of that uh you can get the you can get everything at vitamin shop go hook up the vitamin shop and look you can get all of it at jockofield com and if you subscribe there’s no shipping payment which is a big deal because look let’s face it there’s other companies out there you might have heard of some of these companies and they’re get you on this little thing where you’re getting stuff shipped to your house for free and that can be hard to compete with how do you compete with it just do a little subscription activity help us put down the big boys but if there is an issue with your order that if you ordered from jockofield com or germaine com then you reach back out to origin and jockofield and they fix it the the other ways that you can get it like if there’s an issue with your order there’s an issue with your order that’s it just play jocko feel and origin they’re going to resolve that problem they’re going to take care of it and they’re going to make it right yeah that’s true also you may mention origin origin usa com it is the origin main too right it is all the same gig this is american-made stuff denim boots belts wallets whatever else pete thinks up there’s a heavy hoodie and they’re a great thing i don’t have one but you know that’s got to be i i understand you’re over there with rotten rotten bananas we got heavy hoodies i just want to know how did you go to immersion camp and not leave with a heavy hoodie yeah yeah i kind of jammed that up that opportunity real slippy over there yeah i got a cool giga i got a good guitar so yeah so did everybody that attended mercy count you know one of them oregon usa yep all made in america everything from the materials themselves yep oh by the way there’s a bunch of people that have been trying to get stuff from overseas and there’s a bunch of ships sitting off the coast of california and new york and they can’t get their stuff in here their supply chain is all jacked up guess what we got an american supply chain an american supply chain did i just say that the whole thing every single part of that garment that you’re wearing be it jeans be it boots be the freaking rift gee doesn’t matter that whole supply chain is right here in america we’re not waiting in the port we’re not we’re not paying somebody to have imposed slave labor to build you a freaking pair of jeans and then call them american no that’s not american how can a pair of american genes not be made in america answer me that riddle me that echo charles it’s a hard ritual you can’t you can’t solve it because it’s wrong it’s a lie i understand we’re not doing that nope origin usa dot com boom also jaco is a store it’s called jocko store i know nifty name i get it but some good stuff on there discipline equals freedom shirts hats hoodies jiu jitsu is live jiu jitsu is like i don’t i don’t um condone not doing jiu jitsu choosing not to i’m not going to condone it right but some people don’t some people do the people who do now they got a little section of representation on the path on the jiu jitsu path is being is emerging right now you know how many people have told me that they’ve started jiu jitsu because of the podcast how many do you think i don’t know i don’t know how many you know how many people have come up to me and said hey i started jiu jitsu because of the podcast and i really regret it zero that number is zero if you are listening to the podcast if you’re a living human being go start training jiu jitsu let’s go start training jujitsu start right now yeah it is then you can stop then you can shop this did you do sex yeah and also think about all the people that said oh yeah i started jujitsu i wish i would have started sooner 100 i’m one of those people by the way i’m i am too yeah i wish i was born on the mats of justice yeah okay you know you’re always excited about your little designs yeah and you say they’re you give these you try and explain you say they’re more creative or they’re more layers you just say weird stuff about them you don’t know how to describe them your limited vocabulary trips you up right there jammed you up as you like to say so i was at jocko live last night and i see a guy’s walking up to me and he’s got a shirt that looks freaking legit it’s got like a metallic tank writing on the top and it says discipline and then there’s an actual tank with the barrel pointed at the at you as you look at the shirt and as he gets closer it’s a comic book cover and i’m on it some cartoon version of me riding a tank and it’s a t-shirt so that’s the first one that i’ve said yeah well you know kind of dope they’re not the first one that’s it’s the most differentiated from your standard jocko store shirts it’s the most differentiated one yeah it was kind of a curveball stylistically it was good though yeah i think it landed very well oh i did it says deathcore to the core yes on the top so i learned something new recently somebody was talking about the shirt locker subscription and i i know a good amount of people they’re like man that’d be awesome that i just have too many shirts i got and i’m like i get it trust me i get it well recently i heard a common friend of ours i’m not i don’t know put his name on blast in the podcast but he was like i have way too many shirts i don’t need it he’s like but i do a shirt locker just to support echo and what he does is he gets all these shirts he wears them for a little bit and then he just gives them out as gifts to people and people are like super stoked about it and so if you have if you’re thinking if you’re like hey i have too many shirts i don’t need the shirt locker get the sherlocker and just get your re-gift on and this guy loves it he goes he gets so much fulfillment out of just being able to give out the shirts to different people or someone’s like hey i like that shirt he’d be like cool and he gives it to him there you go there you go see the shirt locker going to pay you twice i’m going to pay you going to get a cool t-shirt i’ll pay you when you give it away to your friend because i liked it yeah i don’t i mean it depends on your lifestyle i don’t feel like i have too many t-shirts because of the shirt locker because all of them that come in are in the rotation granted i’m a little bit biased because i probably won’t make one that i wouldn’t wear maybe i would hope i don’t think so that would be kind of whack yeah yeah that doesn’t make sense to do that yeah yeah but you know how like you just you know how some people don’t anticipate oh yeah or they get a lot of recommendations for something and you’d be like it’s a good idea i don’t know if i would necessarily wear that but it’s like hey but hey the proof is in the pudding everybody’s saying this and it’s actually technically i got it i see i see it now it is now you’re just over there at the whim of the people kind of chasing the glory like oh everyone else likes it so i’m just gonna do it that’s where we’re at i just figured it out i call it listening to my people that’s what i call it oh should i not listen to him look at you maybe maybe i have all the good ideas i have all the good ideas i don’t want to listen to nobody’s gotta you’re a politician so if there is a demand for venus would you go v-neck route then uh in the words of both of you guys by the way uh if there was a demand signal for v-necks then yeah i might consider it sure anyway shirtlocker is on jocklestore com hey if that’s for you we have some developments in that um section by the way um so if you’re a current member we’re gonna have uh some upgrades and some updates for you any moment no dogstore com that’s right subscribe to this podcast wherever you subscribe to podcast check out the unraveling podcast with daryl cooper dc grounded podcast warrior kid podcast i got jocko live last night kids children put me on the spot i have one question for you mr willink uh yeah what’s up son how can i help you when is the next warrior kid podcast coming out because it’s been 14 months next question from a kid hi uncle jake i’d like to ask you a question oh what’s your question young man how can i help you uh i was wondering when the next warrior kid podcast is coming out sure my kids i’m sorry man uh also jocko underground com if you want to hear some alternative podcasts some uh some alternative information life advice by the way life advice q a yeah hitting a lot of q a in there you can go to jocklenderground com now here’s what we’ve been talking about why do we do that well because we don’t control the platforms we don’t know what the platforms are going to do the platform’s big tech what do we okay well whatever what could possibly i be doing that would make someone say hey you know we need to pull this guy out pull the reins in on this jocko guy i don’t know but i got freaking straight up shadow bands legit shadow guy yeah i was gonna text you because on one of your po well the video you know that we did yeah with the travis mill and stuff yeah and you posted it so i’m like oh yeah you know it’s fun to see people’s reaction to that kind of stuff and man it was getting no traction i was like bro this doesn’t and then you had that other one that you were kind of posting like stuff right like um the video of your screen yeah yeah the video that someone sent me of my screen not seeing me right yep you got straight up shadow band shadow band for what i i actually don’t know i actually am not 100 sure i have some suspicions i have some things that i think it could be um yeah i’ve spoken out about some situations that are unfolding on instagram uh on podcasts on my podcast on other podcasts and [Music] that’s that’s weird though right yeah where someone it makes me so mad i was in colorado and i told you this right before the monster i was there working with a client um was out and about met this uh family there’s a lot of little kids and i started talking to him i was like hey you should check out my boss um he’s got these kids for uh he’s got these books for kids called the warrior kid and then mom was like i’m a teacher this would be a phenomenal and so that the the dad was like well what’s his name i’m a jocko willing he’s like okay it which it’s funny anytime i say your name if somebody doesn’t know you it bothers me what are you talking about you don’t know and then i have to be like oh okay not yet everyone doesn’t know him yet but they will and so i was like hey let me see your phone i was like you have instagram i’m like open it up he’s like all right because i don’t want to do like hey look him up later but forget so i now this is my default it’s like hey open up your phone okay open up your instagram okay and i’m like let me see it real quick i just take it and i start typing in i’m like what the heck he’s like is that him i’m like no that’s a meme page about him he goes he has a meme page about him i’m like oh yeah so he started going through he’s like there’s a quote page too i’m like oh yeah i had to type your name fully for you to show up and then i clicked on it and then i immediately was like and i was like hey you’re following him now because i followed you gave him back to him the guy was like why would why is that i’m like yeah like he’s being shadow banned it’s crazy so he starts like looking through all your stuff and he’s like why would he be shadowbound i’m like because he speaks the truth it’s so freaking crazy it’s crazy that that’s that’s a dangerous thing is to speak the truth these days it is very disturbing it is very very disturbing and to that degree where they can where someone and i’m totally just speculating but they’ll hear you say something that they didn’t like like somewhere else and then be like let me go to his instagram and chat about it it really makes me start to think about all the level of inner connectivity between some of these elements out there and it’s because it is very strange now look could it be like oh i was you know someone mentioned me or something or some fault and they got an algorithm that runs and it’s like oh yeah this guy boom and he got and then they went like yeah we shouldn’t have we should have done that now because apparently i think i might be on shadow band right now i think so i think yeah i’m not sure i went on on sarah’s phone and looked for you and you popped right up okay but i think she’s following she follows him yeah so that’s yeah well hey because of all this what what jp i was gonna say it’s just even more confirmation that you know you’re doing the right thing we’re doing the right thing dogs don’t bark at parked cars true you know so because of this we and we figured this out was it a year ago we started jocko underground com because i knew we needed a contingency plan in case things went sideways we could get taken off of every platform that could happen and so if you want to support us go to jockowunderground com it’s eight dollars and 18 cents a month that allows us to have this platform that if things go sideways we will be standing by in the underground to do what we got to do if you can’t afford it it’s all good we still want you on the team email assistance at jackhomeunderground com and for like a reward or an appreciation we do another little podcast and talk about some alternative subjects and you know what you know what i’ll do is i’ll i’ll on that i will do a a one about why i think i got shadow band i’ll give all the details cause i i’m pretty confident i have i i’m pretty sure i know why um interesting um throwing this out here i don’t need to sleep tonight we can do it tonight if you want two weeks ago uh youtube channel subscribe to that official yep it’s official or whatever you can see what jp looks like you can see his jiu jitsu to his life t-shirt you can see my t-shirt i only only wear those same t-shirts yeah that’s kind of what i do um origin usa has a cool youtube channel as well we have psychological warfare i made a little album you can listen to it if you have a moment of weakness you can overcome that moment of weakness flip aside canvas speaking of dakota meyer not only does he have a distribution company he also has flip side canvas you can hang cool stuff on your wall dakota meyer freaking one of my heroes got a bunch of books final spin jp jp danelle come on jp what up what’s up jp danelle you read you got on the plane and you read final spin how’d that work out for you hobie okay well this is what i love about you people don’t understand this a little behind the scenes jp and i we can both we we are both we we can both we can both get emotional at certain things yeah and it’s funny to watch each other get emotional and we make fun of each other for getting emotional laugh at each other literally i was at the last mustard i’m i’m sitting backstage watching jt get choked up and i’m laughing and i’m just preparing yeah and yeah he’s just preparing so i’m like okay so anyways as soon as he he he gives walked into it he’s like yeah i read the book on the plane and i saw the look on his face i was like oh it hit him it hit him because it’s a rough book to read emotionally yeah it’s an emotional roller coaster it’s awesome so we got the copy of the final spin at the muster so we’re leaving vegas amanda amanda had the copy i ordered 10 like when they first came out um and i knew so i had some coming and so i i i stole it from her like i took a picture put on instagram she’s like give me my book back i’m like let me read it for a little bit she’s like okay so i started reading i was like oh my gosh this is legit she like takes the book back she she finished she’s reading on the flight um then i’m gone for ftx’s come back the books are there i grab it and i read it in two or three days i just i could not put it down and i didn’t want to read it at night because i knew like when i would read it at night i was i was not going to sleep because i was just like no one more trap one more one more and um today you know flying out here i’m finishing up my packing and i grab it and it irritated me because i knew i was gonna finish it before i took off um but i needed to finish the book but i was like i want to finish it i’m just carrying another book for a week on the road again and i have my other book that i’m going to be reading um or finishing off but yeah it was awesome like i was just like sitting there and i’m the very front of the plane everyone’s coming on board and i have tears rolling down my face as i’m like reading the book i’m like you got to be kidding me now if anybody knows me well it’s not a surprise like you know i’m an emotional person you know one of my real close friends was one of my black or is one of my black belts so matt waltman and he he just knows he’s like bro he’s like i know when you’re gonna get emotional if he listens to a podcast of mine he’s like yep and then i’ll get emotional just if you know me well you know that i’m an emotional person and i he used to bother me i don’t care anymore because i’m like well that’s the way god designed me yeah it’s the way god designed me it’s part of who i am but yeah final spin that was awesome sitting on the plane tears rolling down my face i’m like you gotta be kidding me because i think and i’d like to talk to more people about it but i truly think every human that reads that book will be able to relate to all the characters i don’t care what your background is 100 i don’t care what your background is you are gonna find a relationship to every one of the characters everyone like the store manager i wanted to beat that guy up because i’ve had some of those bosses in the past artie man that kid you know um damn it just just everything you know and just what the main character did for his brother yeah it’s just a phenomenal book i i truly i would put a large amount of money down and say if you read the book you’ll be able to relate to every one of those characters and i’m not gonna i’m not gonna give it away yeah read it because it’s ridiculous but i will say like just that style that the style that you wrote like i’m looking forward to more books in that and if not then you’re the biggest jerk ever put that out there and then not have more books coming down the pipeline jack right on uh appreciate it that book is called final spin it’s an emotional roller coaster you don’t even expect it really at some points and all of a sudden you’re like wait wait why am i getting choked up right now yeah so i wanted to say this quote earlier and i didn’t find the right time but i think it ties into this book like the principle of the book you said this at one of the last ftx’s ftx002 that we had in san diego and i wrote it down and i know i i shared at the muster part of my talk but you said when you transition from loving winning to loving your team winning more than you winning yourself you transition into a true leader and that’s sacrifice if if when you’re willing to put the team above yourself the mission above yourself that’s when you become a true leader and you you ask this question and we ask it now at all the ftx’s what do you think makes a good team guy and everybody all the answers are great they’re just not the right answer it’s when you put the team first and the mission first that’s what makes you a good team guy and that’s not just for the seal teams company xyz when you and your employees put the team first and the mission first that’s what makes you a good leader and you don’t have to have a title to be a leader we’ve said this your title doesn’t make you a leader your ability to influence those around you to do the right thing to believe in themselves to believe in the mission that’s what makes you a leader and i’ve i love this quote i’ve written it in all my notebooks that i have just as a reminder as well as discipline as rooted in the truth that we tell ourselves that you told me and i just it reminds me i think that’s also why i got emotional reading that book is because he was willing to do what he did for his brother and that’s what good leaders do like they they are willing to put the team and the mission above himself at all costs now what he did in the book is obviously part of the book to but the base of that is he it wasn’t about him it was not about him and when we look at the good companies that we work with the leaders that care more about the team than themselves i remember i called you i sat and had dinner with denver before we were in the ftx and i he was sitting there and he was emotional and he was talking about how much he loves and cares about his team and it was real you know and we’ve worked with companies where you knew they were kind of full of it they’re trying to put on the game i mean he he pulled out like index card that he had notes on for our talk and just the the level of impact the training had on him and how much he cared about his team i remember i texted you and and life afterwards and i called you because just the burden of that and you’re like hey bro you’re gonna deliver the training that he needs and that’s all i was like check roger that and it just it’s cool just when you see leaders truly care about their team and they put the mission first what they’re able to accomplish that’s it man um final spin a lot of those themes in there one of my friends texted me and said this is a great piece of american literature and i said thanks man appreciate it that’s a bold statement right bold statement final span leadership strategy and tactics field manual the code the discipline the code the evaluation the protocol display freedom field manual weigh the warrior kid one two three and four best books ever apparently that’s what a lot of people are thinking adults children across the board mikey and the dragons come on come on about face by hackworth extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership that i wrote with my brother lee fabin we also have well we’re talking about sponsors today if you if you’re interested in the ftx or any of the consultancy that we do go to slamfront com you can also find out where we’re doing the next muster which is dallas texas march 24th and 25th we also have an online training program extreme ownership academy we are on there all the time we got courses that you can take we got live interaction that you can do you can come ask ask us questions there’s so much benefit it’s a leadership gym you don’t get good at leadership by reading one book it doesn’t happen just like you don’t get good at jiu-jitsu by going to one class you got to make it part of your life go to extremeownership com to make leadership part of your life and if you want to help service members act and retire their families gold star families check out mark lee’s mom mama lee she’s got a charity organization she is really helping out veterans just giving them treatments you’ve had those treatments yeah hyperbaric chamber game changer it was an absolute game changer my body was in a medical state that the doctors literally were like we don’t know what’s going on i’ll tell you what’s going on you’re drinking nine monsters a day for three years yeah no more like 10 years straight but it was i was having well i was having kidney and adrenal gland failure and we just like when you’re going to doctors and they’re like hey we don’t know this this is what we know is going on but we don’t know what to do we don’t know how to stop we don’t know what’s causing it and then kobe hit and i hit up mama lee because she was like hey you need to get in these treatments for your tbis and i’m like okay yeah because you know i have real bad tinnitus and um you know just issues with just remembering stuff and headaches and stuff like that and problem sleeping and she’s just been trying to get me into the treatment now i couldn’t because i couldn’t commit to the treatments that i had to do because of how busy we were well coveted hit and i was able to do it and i did all the treatments all those issues were gone like they’re gone and they haven’t come back and we i have no other team guys that had masses growing in their in their head pituitary gland like cancerous types of masses that they didn’t really know what was going on go and get the treatments and they’re gone yeah like just it’s incredible what those treatments do and actually to the point that one of our clients at echelon front that’s a part of dave’s ldap program that we did in ftx for one of the guys like hey what’s a good charity that we can donate to and i told them america’s mighty warriors this is what they’re doing well one of these team members was so motivated because i told them what happened to me other members like cowie who’s on our team like he went got those treatments he said it’s been a game-changer night and day um and every everybody i’ve listened to it’s not just for team guys we’re talking just any service member that has problems we’re getting them in there well this member of the client that we that we work with ran up the chain of command and now their company is doing a thing to where they they pro they produced trailers like heavy haul trailers for the trucking industry they designed a uh america’s mighty warrior trailer where it has the logo on the trailer on the back everything and they’re donating i’m not gonna say the amount but for every trailer they’re donating a large amount to the foundation and their goal is they want to be able to pay for i want to say there’s like five or seven treatments through i mean it’s incredible and she’s only able to do this through companies and individuals that donate yeah it’s it’s it’s insane if you ever wonder what happens with money that you donate to a charity and if it’s effective it this is 100 this is what’s happening medical treatments that are that are game changers for veterans so that is america america’s mightywarriors org this is mark lee’s mom mama lee that’s where you can go to help out with that um if you want any more of my tedious tirades or you need any more of echo’s perplexed ponderings or you want some more of jp’s hyped up hypothesis it’s accurate and you can find us on the interwebs on twitter on the gram facebook jp is jp dannell echo is that equity charles i am at jocko willing echo any closing thoughts good to see jp in person again it’s always good to be here jp anything to close it out no i said what i wanted to say right on all right well speaking of military personnel to all the military personnel out there around the world staring evil in the eyes in order to keep us safe thank you for doing what you do and to our police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics emts dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all first responders thank you for protecting us from evil here at home and everyone else out there remember there’s always more to learn there’s always new information to absorb you can always hone your skills you can always improve your technique you can always increase your knowledge and you can always always get better well actually almost always because if you close your mind and your ego says that you already know it at all well then guess what you won’t learn you won’t improve and ultimately you won’t get better and you won’t win so put your ego in check go out there keep learning keep getting better and yes keep getting after it and until next time this is jp and echo and jocko out