Jocko Podcast 15 – with Echo Charles | Band of Brothers | Henry V

this is Joo podcast number 15 with Eko Charles and me Joo willink good evening Eko good evening I looked around at the men I was the only one looking around all the other heads were bowed down all of them praying these men were going into battle real battle we could literally hear machine gun fire in the distance where the battle would take place these men had suffered an incredible number of casualties they had every reason to pray I was with Charlie Company from one of the most hallowed units in the US military the first to the 506 The Band of Brothers made famous by their unbelievable performance in World War II which was documented in the book Band of Brothers which became an HBO miniseries of the same name the first of the 506 and raditi held the line on that tradition of glory and service and courage there’s nothing I can say that will do justice to the and to the to the admiration and the respect that I had for the first of the 506 and that all of us seals had for the 1st to the 506 the seals that I sent to work directly with the 506 they became adopted by the 506 red kurhe that’s one of the nicknames for the 506 and the seals that were directly there working with them absolutely loved the 506 the 506 represented everything good I can imagine in a military team or any team professional and disciplined and motivated and creative the leadership in the Battalion was absolutely outstanding the Battalion Commander he was the very essence of leadership he was calm and direct and friendly and open-minded and respectful and respected and his staff and the company commanders and the senior ncos they had this unified thread between them this bond this connection and it was that tradition and that sense of purpose and that standard of Excellence and professionalism it’s hard to describe but it was absolutely there and it was as real as the sand and the bullets and the guns and so there I was and this was early in my deployment to ratti with task unit Bruiser and I was about to go out into the malab district with Charlie Company and their company Commander was just an outstanding guy and I knew that this unit and this company and this Battalion I knew it was something special and I knew that that term The Band of Brothers I knew that that’s what they truly were and we hear it and I know it’s a book and it’s a it’s a it’s a HBO series but where does it come from now most people have heard that simple quote we few we happy few we ban to Brothers for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother and I knew what that quote was I knew where it came from I was an English major in college and I knew that that was Shakespeare and I knew that that was Henry V and I knew how powerful that quote was now when you start talking about Shakespeare and you start talking about Henry VI there’s all kinds of different directions you can go because you can go back and you can look at what Henry VI was like in real life and if he was like the leader that Shakespeare made him into in the play and you could talk about Shakespeare himself and the rumors and the and the myths and the Le the legends that circulate his life and his legacy because there’s all kinds of questions about Shakespeare I mean did he actually write all of his plays was he more than one person was he a soldier at some point how did he know all this stuff about the military and what it was like to be a soldier was his vocabulary t 10 times what a normal person is there’s all kinds of like I said rumor and myth about Shakespeare but instead of talking about all that and and the conjecture and the hypothetical questions I would rather talk about something that is known something that we have today and those are the words words from the play Henry V which yes was written by Shakespeare and I’m going to tell you don’t be scared and don’t be intimidated by that I mean it don’t be scared and don’t be intimidated by Shakespeare because you don’t understand it because you can’t and the fact of the matter is no one can at at least at first it’s not possible to understand Shakespeare out of the gate it doesn’t work it’s another language it’s it’s it is another language you can’t be expected to understand it it’s written in something called early modern English you know we speak English this is early modern English which is just a transition from something called Middle English and if you go on YouTube and you you look up Middle English and you have somebody read a real common one is if you look at the Lord’s Prayer in Middle English you can barely understand it parts of it you can’t understand parts of the words you’ll recognize but when you get to early modern English now it’s a step closer but it still is there’s there’s it’s different it’s a different type of language and there’s archaic words and there’s obsolete words and there’s words that Shakespeare just made up he would make up words factually and the patterns of speech are different and the idioms are different and the references are all historical and so if you don’t have a grasp on those mythological references and historical references and biblical references then it doesn’t have the meaning that it’s supposed to have so you can’t expect just to open up Shakespeare and be able to understand it now this is actually the opposite of what I often say because to me you know you hear me say all the time that what makes English so important is that you can make things very simple and very understandable by everybody so then why is it important why should we read it why should we try and understand it and the answer to that question is actually very simple Shakespeare had something he had something he had some understanding some knowledge some some insight into the human mind that is not normal it’s not normal he understood people deeply he understood relationships he understood leadership he understood love and he understood war and I don’t know how he did this and I don’t know why he did but he did and on top of that he had this Talent he had this gift to translate that knowledge into words and this is important because in the late 1500s and the early 1600s this is a whole another deal there’s no special effects there’s no close-up shots of an actor there’s no stunt man there’s no CGI everything has to be contained in the words all the emotion and all the feeling and all the action and all the nature of human beings it all has to be captured in the words and the words that Shakespeare uses are heavy and they’re also they’re pregnant they’re pregnant with so much more meaning than what’s on the surface they’re filled with depth and knowledge that you have to scrape away and uncover to figure out what they’re even talking about but let’s let’s take a look at this this famous speech in Henry V the play of the same name and I’m going to lead into it a little bit just to kind of at least set the context of what’s happening and as I as I went into my notes just the opening when you’ve got this guy that kind of comes out and describes to you what’s going to happen in the play and he and he kind of introduces Henry and they call him Harry and he introduces him with this line then should the warlike Harry like himself assume the port of Mars and at his heels leashed in like hounds should famine sword and fire Crouch for employment so if you break that down first of all he’s coming out of the great out of the gate he’s saying Harry is warlike which means he’s fond of war and skilled in it and equipped for it and in a more literal meaning it’s saying Henry is like War himself which means he has complexities and the and the youth and the Mayhem and the chaos inside himself and then it goes on to say that he should assume the port of Mars which which means he should take on the bearing of Mars which is the Roman god of war and at his heels so so down now by his feet leashed in like hounds so you got dogs angry dogs on leashes and those dogs are famine sword and fire and in those days that was war because when you did Siege Warfare on somebody and you locked down their Castle you starved them them and once they were weakened you burned their castle and then used the sword to finish them off so he had those dogs of war at his side and they were crouched for employment if you can imagine a pitbull just tense and coiled like a spring ready to pounce that’s the opening to describe Henry so they’re at war with France and they go to take down this town of harlur and at this point this is one of the other really famous speeches from Henry V and at this point they’ve broken through the walls and there’s a there’s a breach in the wall so there’s a there’s a hole hole in the wall but the French are still defending It the French are still defending it pretty well and so Henry has a little chat with his Troopers and this is a pretty famous speech and he says once more unto the breach dear friends once more or close the wall up with our English dead so he’s saying that hole in the wall charge it charge it and either get through it or fill up the wall with our dead and then he says in peace there’s nothing so becomes a man as modest Stillness and humility so when things are when things are peaceful being calm and being humble is a good thing but when the blast of War blows in our ears then imitate the action of the tiger so when War comes never mind peace and calm it’s time to be like a tiger and he says stiffen the sinus summon up the blood disguise Fair nature with hard favored rage so tense your body and summon up your rage then lend the eye a terrible aspect let pry through the Portage of the head like the brass Cannon let the brass brow overwhelm it so what he’s saying there is furl your brow and let your eye poke through your brow like a cannon like a brass Cannon sticking out of a port hole as fearfully as doth a galled rock overhang and Judy his confounded base swilled with the Wild and wasteful ocean so he’s saying make your brow overhang hang your eyes like a rock that duts out over the Wild Ocean and then now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide hold hard the breath and bend up every Spirit till its full height so you know what that one is bite down grit your teeth flare your nostrils take a deep breath and hold it in and bring every emotion you have to its up most and like like a like the tension on a bow on on you noblest English whose blood is fed from fathers of War prooof fathers like so many Alexanders having these parts from mourn till even fought and sheath their swords for lack of argument so he’s saying listen you got to fight you got to fight you you you Englishmen whose blood is from combat tested Warriors like Alexander the Great and those men have fought on this soil from morning until night forever and they only sheath their swords when there was no one else to fight do not dishonor your mothers now attest that whom you called fathers did beget you so don’t dishonor your mom prove that your father with his Warrior blood is really your father be copy now to Men of grosser blood and teach them how to war and that means be an example to the lesser man to the weaker man and show them how to war and you good yman whose limbs were made in England show us here the medal of your pasture so yman were basically like the Troopers the foot soldiers and The Archers and he’s saying show us how you were born in England and the pasture that’s where you were raised like a cow is raised on a pasture show us what the medal of that pasture is let us swear that you you are worth your breeding which I doubt not for there is none of you so mean and base that hath not Noble luster in your eyes so no matter where these guys are from no matter what level of society they’re they they came from he sees the noble luster and the righteous gleam in their eyes I see you stand like Greyhounds in the slips St raining upon the start now Greyhounds you know now we use them for racing mhm they used to be used to hunt to run down animals and a slip is this is one of those things you got to look this up I didn’t know this I looked it up today a slip is an old kind of leash that they used for hunting dogs that when you it was very you could you could basically hit a switch and it would let the dog go so here are these picture these Greyhounds that are in these quick release leashes but they’re straining on them waiting to go on the hunt to go and Chase down their prey and the next line is the games of foot follow your spirit and upon this charge cry God for Harry England and St George so he says the game’s a foot meaning the the animal that you’re hunting it’s out there follow you your spirit and then go and get after it and as you get after it yell God for Harry England and St George and St George is the St George is the patron Sint of England the dragon slayer who was an executed Christian martyr so you can see that there’s so much inside these words and he captures some of the brutality of war and so what happens now is they they get the village that they’re trying to take down and they’ve you know put a lot of pressure on they’ve gone through the breach they’ve gotten fight back but now they’ve got him on lock down and he’s telling them he tells the Governor Henry tells the governor that he needs to surrender before Henry loses control of his own men this is a scary thing this is like you know hey if you don’t surrender now I’m not going to have control anymore over These Guys these Barbarians at the gate they’re going to come and I’m not going to have control over them anymore he says the gates of Mercy shall be all shut up and the fleshed soldier rough and hard of heart and by the way fleshed this is an old word it means excited by The Taste of Flesh so he’s saying these soldiers who are excited by The Taste of Flesh in Liberty of bloody hand shall shall range with conscience wide as hell so in Liberty of bloody hand you know what that means it means our hands already covered in blood I’m I’m going to I’m just going to go forward I don’t care anymore I don’t care anymore with conscious wide as hell mowing like grass your fresh Fair virgins and your flowering infants so we are going to come and we are going to mow like grass your virgins and your children that’s Savage right too he goes on trying to convince them again this is his key point is like listen I have control of these guys right now and he goes on therefore you men of harler take pity on your town and of your people whilst yet my soldiers are in my command whils yet the cool and temperate wind of Grace overblows the filthy and contagious clouds of heady murder spoil and villainy so he’s saying like right now there’s there’s a cool breeze of peace and Grace with my guys but some contagious clouds are coming of murder and spoil and villainy and and the word he uses he is it means intoxicating meaning these guys are going to lose their minds if not why in a moment look to see the Blind and bloody soldier with foul hand desire the locks of your shrill shrieking daughters your fathers taken by the silver beards and their most re Reverend heads dashed to the walls blind and bloody should that’s like blind with rage and blind with murder and foul hands he’s telling them this your naked infants spitted upon Pikes and spitted by the way is a methodology used in this time period for cooking small game small animals and it means you put the animal on a pole from mouth to rectum and he’s saying they’re going to do this to their children whils the Mad mothers with their howls confused do break the clouds as did the wives of jury at at herod’s bloody hunting slaughtermen so break the clouds that means cry so the Mad mothers are going to go mad with tears like they did in the Bible in Matthew 2:16 that’s what this is referring to when King Herod ordered the slaughter of all Bo under the age of two in Bethlehem this is like a threat that they’re going to kill all the children so Henry VI is bringing it what say you will you yield and of this avoid or guilty in defense be thus destroyed so the French hearing these pretty valid threats coming uh they surrender they Henry and the troops take that Village and then the next thing they do is March and and again I’m moving rapidly through a real war that took place and they end up uh settling on the opposing ends of a field which is now what’s becomes the the famous battle of it some people call it azen court or Ain court and the French they they’ve got more people I mean it’s in France so they’ve got more people substantially more people and there’s a bunch of different you know the books I’ve read there’s varying numbers but it they definitely had substantially more people and Henry he’s talking to some of his leadership his subordinate Commanders and then they all kind of walk off the stage and he’s left there and he starts talking a little bit about the burden of command and and some thoughts on leadership which I was I found very familiar so he says upon the king let us our lives our souls our debts our careful wives our children and our sins lay on the king we must spare all so he knows that the king is responsible for everything got to take ownership of everything and he he kind of talks about this idea that the king is it’s you know it’s it’s the expression of it’s Lonely at the Top he’s about to get into that in whatever it was 1599 oh ceremony show me but thy worth what is thy soul of adoration art thou ought else but Place degree and form so he’s saying like what is all this junk besides just social Rank and etiquette what real meaning does it have creating awe and fear in other men wherein Thou Art less happy being feared than they in fearing so he’s saying look like these people are scared of me I I’m I’m actually less happy than they are they’re they’re afraid of me but I’m less happy because I’m the guy that’s scaring them I am a king that find thee and I know is not the bomb the scepter and the ball the sword the mace the crown Imperial the inter tissued robe of gold and pearl the farced title running for the king the throne he sits on nor the tide of pp that beats upon the high shore of this world so he goes through all the kind of stereotypical things that make you a king you know the clothes the scepter the crown all those things no not all these Thrice gorgeous ceremony not all these laid in bed majestical so not any of those beautiful things expensive things can sleep so soundly as The Wretched slave so it’s the slave who with a body filled and vacant mind gets him to rest crammed with distressful bread so he’s talking about this fact that the king doesn’t get to rest he doesn’t get to sleep when the slave goes home at night yeah he’s going to eat the fed and distressful basically that means that they made it themselves they made it with their hands they actually get some satisfaction of making their food and eating it he doesn’t even get that satisfaction his mind is constantly churning about the fate of the kingdom and you know this actually interestingly when I was in uh I know we did a podcast here about Sri Lanka and I talked about me being in Sri Lanka and I I tried to drag as because again I’d never been in combat this is the mid90s and I tried to drag as much knowledge as I could out of the Shri Lankan guys the Shri Lankan military and the Sri Lankan special boat service and the Special Forces guys that we were working with and they were unbelievably uh combat experienced veterans but one of the guys that I befriended who is an army captain and you know his he was one of those guys he was a guy that was a good leader but man he felt exactly what this guy what what Henry the f is talking about here and I remember him saying you know he’s kind of just having a late night conversation with me cuz like I said I was constantly trying to Garner information from these guys and learn from them and you know he cuz this guy had been a this guy had been a regular Soldier and then he had been promoted he’d gone up the ranks and he said you know Joo when I was a soldier meaning when he was just a grunt Soldier on you know lower enlisted guy he said I knew I could survive anything and I knew I could take care of myself and it was actually kind of fun and he said now that I’m a company Commander because now he was actually a pretty senior guy he said it is the most stress and it is the most harrowing thing because I I’m not worried about myself anymore but I’m so worried about all these other guys that’s what the worry is and yeah I uh I actually got to know that feeling myself the leader gets no rest and and and what Henry’s talking about is that burden of command and that’s the same thing that Sri Lanka guy was talking about you hear me talking about it as well you know that burden of command is heavy and now so now you know again I’ve kind of gone very quickly through what this to get to this point where where Henry V makes this famous speech and as I said the English are on one side of the back Battlefield and the French with the other and again this really happened this is this is factual information and they can hear each other and they can at night they see each other’s campfires burning and and the English like I said they know they’re outnumbered and finally one of the leaders you know as they’re as they’re getting ready to go into combat one of the leaders from the British side he calls out kind of like wishing that they had more men and it’s interesting and and it’s pretty important to know that I mean OB viously Shakespeare fictionalized this in many ways but that speech is actually rooted in a real account it’s rooted in a real account of something that was said and and and the account was written by an anonymous chaplain that was like on tour with these guys and he just wrote down what he saw and in his report it was the uh a guy named Sir Walter Hungerford that suggested to the king that it would be nice if they had another 10 000 archers from England that were not doing anything you know that are sitting back doing you know back in England sitting in peace and it’d be nice if they hadn’t there now in the play it’s a character named West Morland who’s one of you know this the the lieutenants or the one of the uh subordinate leadership of Henry V and he says oh that we now had here but one 10 000 of those men in England that do no work today day so he’s saying that same thing he’s like listen here we are about to go to battle we’re completely outnumbered and be nice if we had some of those other guys that are in England right now that are sitting in bed that are doing nothing and so so now King Henry responds and again this is this is in the same vein that was documented by this Anonymous chaplain and of course Shakespeare wrote it so it’s got to be it’s a lot more impact but the message is the same and I’m going to go through this once and kind of like break it down so so that we can understand what the meaning of these different words are before I just roll through it so when he say you know this guy says you know if only we had more guys and King Henry says what’s he that wishes so meaning who just said that he said my cousin West Morland no my Fair cousin if we are marked to die we are enough to do our country loss and if to live the fewer men the greater share of Honor so he’s saying no listen if we’re going to die we got plenty of guys here to die for our country but if we’re going to live and if we’re going to win the fewer men we have the better because that’s more honor for us God’s will I pray thee wish not one more man he doesn’t want anybody else by Jo I am not Covetous for gold nor care I who doth feed upon my cost so he doesn’t care about gold he doesn’t care who he feeds and who who eats off of his check that he’s cashing it earns me not if M men my garments wear meaning he doesn’t people he doesn’t care if people are either taking his clothes or if they’re wearing his royal colors he doesn’t care doesn’t care about any of that such outward things dwell not in my desires so those things don’t matter to him but if it if it be a sin to covet honor I am the most offending Soul alive so if it’s about honor and if it’s a sin to want honor and want Glory then he’s the guiltiest person of them all no faith my CU wish not a man from England God’s peace I would not lose so great an honor as one more man me thinks would share from me for the best hope I have oh do not wish one more so he’s just going off like no we don’t want anyone else I don’t want to share my honor with anyone else rather Proclaim it westm land through my host that he which hath no stomach to this fight let him depart his passport shall be made and crowns for Convoy put into his purse so he’s said okay you know what West Morland as a matter of fact tell everyone that anybody that doesn’t have the guts or the stomach to stand here with us and fight tell them I’ll give them a passport and I’ll give them money to pay for their trip home we would not die in that man’s company that fears his Fellowship to die with us he doesn’t want to die with anybody that fears the duty that’s what they mean by Fellowship the duty to die with us this day is called the Feast of Crispian so crisp this is actually alleged twin brothers interestingly Crispen and Crispian twin brothers they helped the poor and they preached Christianity and they were tortured by a Roman governor and they were thrown into the river with millstones tied around their necks and they survived and when they survived that they pulled them out of the water and they beheaded them they were venerated and they became Saints on October 25th and that’s called St krispin’s day sometimes it’s called St crispian’s day but that’s what it is so this day this is October 25th when they’re about to fight he says this day is called the Feast of Crispian he that outlives this day and comes home safe will stand a tiptoe when the day is named and Rouse him at the name of chrispian so anybody that anybody that lives through this day and comes home safe when it’s going to be St krispin’s day they’re going to get on their toes they’re going to be so excited about it he that shall see this day and live old age will yearly on the vigil Feast his neighbors and say tomorrow is St chrispian so again anybody that lives through this is going to be going to their neighbors and say hey tomorrow’s St chrispian day then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars and say these wounds I had on crisen day so he’s going to be at their feast he’s going to roll up his sleeves and he’s going to say you see these scars these are what I got on crisen Day old men forget yet all shall be forgot but he’ll remember with advantages what Feats he did that day so he’s saying everything gets forgotten right but the old man will remember the glory three days of that battle and what he did it will be the highlight of his life then are names familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king Bedford and exer Warick and Talbot Salsbury and Glouster be in their flowing cups freshly remembered so all their names are going to be remembered this story shall the good man teach his son and Crispen chrispian shall never go by from this day to the ending of the world but we in it shall be remembered so he’s saying look this is a story that good men are going to tell their sons and they’re going to Forever remember on this day till the ending of the world what we did we few we happy few we Band of Brothers for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother and that one doesn’t really need an explanation but we sure do hear about Brotherhood a lot be he n so vile this day shall gentle his condition so no matter where you’re from no matter what you were like no matter what kind of a person you were today when he says gentle his condition that today will make you a gentleman today will make you a man and gentlemen in England now a bed so guys that are back in England right now sleeping shall think themselves a cursed they were not here and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any beaks that fought with us upon St Kristen’s day so like I said anyone that’s home in England and that word a bed it’s like implies being lazy and sleeping they’re going to curse that they weren’t there and they’ll know that they weren’t real men and I mean he used the word manhood which implies you know testicul fortitude they didn’t have the testicular fortitude to fight and that’s that’s the speech with the understanding and I haven’t even gone all the way I mean I didn’t go to break down each and every word and the depth and meaning behind them because they are so impactful and if you go and you read you can get like a translated modern vers version mhm um that kind of dumbs down the language and that’s okay but I’m telling you having done both when you do that that’s like compared to actually doing the work and studying and figuring out what it all actually means if you just take a dumb down version it’s like Diet Shakespeare or Shakespeare light it’s it’s actually worse than that it’s like that it’s like firing a cap gun versus firing a real gun it it kind of looks the same and it might even sound a little bit the same but one of them will kill you and the other one just goes bang yep it’s not as heavy and what’s really bizarre and this is I think actually a a this is really strange if you go on YouTube and you look up Henry V St kisen Day speech right if you look it up you’ll get these class Bally trained actors famous I mean famous actors doing the speech and in my mind they don’t get it they don’t get it right and I I you know what I know I’m a nobody I know I’m just some guy and these people are people that studied Shakespeare and did it on stage and all this I’m I’m just an ignorant uh you know wretch From The Trenches and I don’t understand I am big pentameter and all the other little details but I’m telling you I don’t think they get it and when I watch the professionals do this I don’t think they get the emotion I don’t think they understand the leadership I don’t think they get the fear and the blood and the death and I don’t think they understand War and when these [Music] actors take these great words that are crafted brilliantly and they try and say them like leaders to me they still sound like actors they don’t sound like men that have fought they don’t sound like men that have seen battle they definitely don’t sound like men that have seen War I think Henry V F would have sounded different this is what I think would be closer to what Henry V F a combat leader would have sounded like as he as he answered some one of his subordinate leaders out there in the crowd saying that we need more more people we need more men I think this is what he would have sounded like what’s he that wishes so my cousin West Morland no my fair cousin if we are marked to die we are enough to do our country loss and if to live the fewer men the greater share of Honor God’s will I pray pray thee wish not one more man by Jo I am not Covetous for gold nor care I who doth feed upon my cost it earns me not if men my garments wear such outward things dwell not in my desires but if it be a sin to covet honor I am the most offending Soul alive no faith my cuz wish not a man from England God’s peace I would not lose so great an honor as one man more me thinks would share from me for the best hope I have oh do not wish one more rather Proclaim it West Morland through my host that he which hath no stomach to this fight let him depart his passport shall be made and crowns for Convoy shall be put into his purse we would not die in that man’s company that fears his Fellowship to die with us this day is called the Feast of Crispian he that outlives this day and comes home safe will stand a tiptoe when the day is named and Rouse him at the name of Crispian he that shall see this day and live old age will yearly on the vigil Feast his neighbors and say tomorrow is St chrispian then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars and say these wounds I had on crisen Day old men forget yet all shall be forgot but he’ll remember with advantages what Feats he did that day then shall our names familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king Bedford and exitor Warwick and Talbot Salsbury and Glouster be in their flowing cups freshly remembered this story shall the good man teach his son and Crispen Crispian shall n Go by from this day to the ending of the world but we in it shall be remembered we few we happy few we Band of [Music] Brothers for who for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother be he n so vile this day shall gentle his condition and gentlemen in England now Abed shall think themselves a cursed they were not here and hold their manhoods cheap while any speaks that fought with us upon St Kristen’s day now that is a speech and that is like I said there’s a lot more to it than what I covered there’s so much depth there and that’s why it’s lasted the ages and that’s why you hear people talking about Brotherhood and this is what they refer to and as far as Shakespeare goes and I talk all the time about getting stronger and faster and getting smarter and stronger and faster that’s I mean that’s pretty straightforward H how do you get stronger and faster you lift weights you work out you do your calisthenics you do physical activity to get stronger and faster but how do you get smarter well this is one way to get smarter you go out and you find something that you do not understand and you gain understanding of it words you don’t know and phrases you don’t know and Concepts you don’t know you find them and you learn them you teach yourself the resources are there and by the way you know what it’s free there’s no gym fees there’s no equipment to buy you can get all of Shakespeare his entire cannon on the internet for free it’s at the library for free the only thing it does take and the only thing it does cost is just a little something that we call discipline right to get in there to open that book to challenge your brain in order to Free Your Mind so that’s Shakespeare that’s Henry V and very impactful and definitely a classic representation of the banda brothers that I had the honor to work with in radi Iraq in 2006 the first of the 506 and I guess it is time for questions from the interwebs and uh speaking of the interwebs little something from on it yes yeah we are in fact sponsored by on it com boom which is where Joo gets his Crill oil to keep his we’ll say what aging joints no we’ll just say joints not not deteriorating we’ll just say aging joint joints to keep his joints together um it’s where I get some Alpha Brain that’s why I’m so smart and my memory is so good I’m actually encouraging you to take more Alpha Brain it’s up the game a little bit Yeah but it’s good um yeah so on it com you can get some yeah and you can get some uh you can get some kettle bells and some Club bells and go and toss those things things around and get yourself a Little Bit Stronger get them at on it I myself have have a few zombie bells in the house and you probably use that one I have them I have them uh they’re my they’re my kind of go-to when I I have them sitting around because they they do they kind of draw you in because I see what what do I think when I see zombie when I see zombies I think zombie apocalypse and I think I better be ready so I’m I’m going to hit a couple kettle bell snatches real quick while while I got a little little two minutes spare yeah boom throw it up there yeah and they’re dope though and apparently they’re balanced just like regular ones yeah no they feel they feel norid anyway you can get them at on it com onnit com joaco and you get 10% off boom get some shroom Tech sport by the way shroom Tech sport I think I think as a as a public service yeah if you’re doing something that’s high output like a crossfit situation you did that’s a public service I’m tell you night and day anyway shroom Tech sport that’s the one I’m going to go on the shroom Tech sport I think I don’t think see up I don’t think you should and and then what about the amazon com yes if you would like to support this podcast in a painless way what would you call it painless yeah seamless seamless seamless and painless quasi seamless um instead of going straight to amazon com go to Joost store com or Joop podcast com so if you buy a TV if you buy a flat screen plasma TV for for $800 mhm right and you do it through you do it through you click through Joop podcast com mhm or Joost store com sure or [ __ ] then then the podcast gets supported financially yeah it gets like you know little something a little little something something that’s cool it’s better than nothing yeah and it’s yeah and a actually Amazon pays us because because yeah that’s cool because it takes time to do the podcast right it takes preparation to do the podcast yeah and you know what I’m going to be honest bro I’d do it anyway yeah obviously I think you would too but but people ask though they’re like hey this is great some people they’ll they’ll sign up some I guess other podcasts they’ll have situations where you can sign up and just enter your credit card and it’ll take out like a dollar a month or something as like a thing this guy um I totally forget his name such a cool guy anyway emailed me and told me that I was like dang that’s solid but nonetheless should we do that uh I don’t know it’s necessary but I don’t know hey I think we’re we maybe we’ll research that yeah cuz know people are always saying hey how can we support cuz people are getting value and when they get value they want to give value they want to give you something back which is awesome I appreciate that very cool very cool yeah I mean the prep notes today were 17 pages long working on for the past few days yeah getting ready you know that’s like a term paper in college you know those Grinders total gut check yeah it’s like a 400 level term paper my term papers are one page yeah one page College athlete over there and uh oh yeah one more thing about about Amazon somebody hit me up on Twitter and said hey you need to say on your podcast that you have your your book extreme ownership is an audio book audio book yeah and what’s what I think is cool about it is Leif who wrote the book with me he’s another seal he worked with me in ratti and he and I are the ones that read it so we each wrote chapters we each wrote half the chapters and we reread it so you know if you’re used to the Joo podcast voice yeah and and you know Leif was on the podcast obviously podcast number 11 so uh yeah so get you can get the audio book and you got another it’s eight hours long it’s no joke if you had a long drive 8 hour drive yeah get you got an 8 hour drive San Francisco from San Diego yeah yeah it’s one of those drives it’s good okay yeah so joa store com Cho podcast com all right then on it onnit com thank you all right internet questions first question it’s kind of a paragraph with a question yeah we got some long questions Joo I’m just curious about your opinions on the regular army in infantry it seems like nowadays the regular infantry is almost looked down upon from the regular public and every prior military public speaker I almost feel like we’re looked at like we were just bodies that held ground and absorbed attacks and made no real impact on the war I’m almost hesitant to ask because I’m not sure if I can or I’m not sure if I’m in denial or if it’s just Pride I served with some fantastic Warriors and I don’t want those Heroes to be looked over in history because they were regular grunts so I’d enjoy your opinions on this matter and if you could enlighten me on how infantry divisions are looked at from other groups and organizations yeah um I’m I’m this question you know it it bothers me and it bothers me because if you couldn’t tell from the opening that I did tonight talking about the first of the 506 and I would tell you the same thing about so many other units that we have the utmost respect and admiration for what we used to call conventional for forces what they now call general purpose forces but it’s the the Marine Corps the US Marine Corps the US Army they their regular infantry the ground pound they’re Grunts and we like I said the guys in my task you know the guys I know in the SEAL Teams we have nothing but respect and admiration for the Ground Pounders for the grunts and for my position you know having been in ratti with the 228 which was a reserve unit from Pennsylvania the iron soldiers those guys were outstanding outstanding and then they turned over with the 11 ad and you’ve heard me talk about them and the battalions that were attached to them those guys were just they all of them I mean they were just so professional so brave and of course Special Forces and seals and Rangers and marso and ASO for whatever reason Special Operations gets attention right I mean the name is Special Operation so it gets this attention I’m not 100% sure where it comes from or where it started or whatever but there’s something about the that the public and the media and I don’t know the media feeds the public and the F the the the public feeds the media and the media feeds the public so like the public wants to see stories so the media produces stories about the Special Operations types and then it goes into a Vici Circle a vicious circle and they just make a bunch of stories about it and so you know it’s like this little Mystique or whatever of Special Operations probably that’s that’s that’s having that impact but let me tell you just for everybody for anyone that’s on that’s not been in the military that has that you know thinks oh the Special Operations guys must be more you know Elite or do more dangerous stuff wrong wrong do they do dangerous stuff yes but you know I’ve been on all when I was in Iraq my first deployment to Iraq went all over Iraq it spe second deployment stayed in ratti but I during that time saw the conventional units the general purpose forces the Ground Pounders the grunts the Marine Corps and not just them but I talked about this last time the the logistics folks I mean so it’s everybody they’re out there they’re living in forward operating bases they’re living in combat outposts in the middle of cities you know small groups out there eating MREs just living in really tough conditions doing daytime Patrols in horrible areas working with Iraqi soldiers uh you know like I just said doing these Logistics runs you know these are where you get blown up with an IED these are where you get ambushed I mean this is what they did all the time every day this was their job even like the Mind clearance operations you know mind you’re going out and you’re going out to go and get blown up or try and look for things that are going to blow you up and and you know for sure you got some guys that are in the big mind protected vehicles but when we were ratti there was a Marine Corps unit that would follow behind those guys sometimes an army unit that would follow behind those infantry guys just out there getting after it and so what do we think of that I mean I have just admiration respect and just utmost the utmost I hold those guys in the highest esteem um because they held the line so to to that guy out there that asked that question um believe me anybody that’s been in combat and knows what you guys do and I spread that word all the time you listen to any even if you read if you read Le and I’s book I mean we talk about that in great detail about the respect and admiration we had for for the general purpose forces the grunts The Ground Pounders the bravest the most professional the most dedicated people that I could ever imagine and I was absolutely honored and everyone in my seal task unit was honored and hum led to have served with such brave warriors so that’s how I feel about our US military next question so jao posted a Twitter post Instagram Twitter and Instagram post of a picture black and white strangely and that’s sort of my gig yeah you’re thing um of just the mats and I think there were some ambiguous figures I think it was Dean right teaching somebody anyway he said talked about he learned a lesson or something like that anyway so the question is Joo what lesson did you learn for the thousandth time cuz he said he said that it was in training with Dean the other day so what was that lesson the lesson was rules rules must sometimes be broken so let me let me give you the quick story for for those of you that are J Jitsu players we’ll indulge you a little bit with some jiujitsu so Friday night training and de and I usually train hard on Friday nights and we had uh we had a war we had a little death match on Friday and it started off we went probably I don’t know five six maybe seven minutes and he got me got me in a little uh got me in a little situation that forced me to submit and then we I was like all right let’s go again and so we went again and I and I worm down and I got the better of him and actually the the deeper water I take him into the better things get for me right uh so I wor him down and I got a hold of his arm and I had him in I had him in a compromised position for probably five minutes and you know he and he at the last moments good great timing and he just got out arm bar uh it was a straight arm lock and uh so he got out and when he got out he was done he was like yeah I’m done I mean he got out of it but he was done so Joo got a little moral Victory right and then I kind of antagonized him a little bit which is what Dean and I do we we instigate and we antagonize each other and so I antagonized him a little bit about you know oh you don’t want to train anymore oh cuz you’re too you’re too broken down you know I’m going to stay here and train more you can go home and you know have glass of warm milk or whatever you know just giving him a hard time so so you know inside and I failed to recognize this inside psychologically he was he was not happy about that and so Saturday he’s like hey you know let’s train and so I I missed that I missed that it’s a que that’s a red flag MH so when I showed up you know he says oh you know let’s just work some moves and we went over some stuff and working some other people and you know we’re just kind of we very relaxed l back there was no class going on we’re just just relaxing and I said hey man I got to leave at such and such a time I go pick one of my kids up he goes yeah yeah no problem he goes I got to leave too so now I think he’s got to leave so I’m actually thinking like we might get a light roll and that’ll be it you know maybe like two five minute rounds so and he’s got the you know the nice guy face and all that stuff that he’s given me so anyways I said you know L we worked on some stuff and he all let’s roll real quick he even threw that out there like it just going to be a quick roll yeah just a quick roll so I’m thinking I’m thinking two or three literally I’m thinking two or 3 minutes like to go over maybe and try some of the stuff we were just we were just drilling a little bit no he comes full on I mean and it and and it was disguised full on so he didn’t you know get but he just went very sternly and and passed my guard really quick and then and actually you know you and I were had discussed this Mount Escape that I had had done to him the other day and I was actually like I don’t really care if he mounts right now I’ve got this new escape and I’ll just use that and he aggressively mounted and he aggressively went for this move that we call the snow angel which is when you get the person’s arms up like a snow angel like up above their head from the mount and it’s just horrible pinned there yeah they’re pinned there way above you have no leverage you can’t move and so not only get me in snow Ang he got me in double snow angel so both my arms are stuck up there now what what was bad about this was there was a moment okay and this was this is the rule that I learned because after we broke it down so Dean kept me there for you know probably 7 Minutes in in double snow angel which is just a nightmare because he’s not just holding me there he’s like saying things you know he’s antagonizing me and I’m sitting there just wanting to kill him yeah and uh I forget I actually forget how it ended I don’t remember if he went for an arm lock and he got it or if went I got out I forget how it ended cuz it’s kind of a big blur which most of my roles are but anyways the rule is and I don’t want to go into too much detail be just because it’ll get too Technical and too hard to you know do through an audio podcast but you know basically I don’t let my elbow cross the other person’s sternum I don’t let it go across their sternum because if it does you can get pinned there you get stuck there so there was a moment where when Dean was trying to move me into snow angel where I should have sacrificed and done like a drastic movement that’s a major breaking of that rule and turned to my side really hard and put my elbow across his sternum and it would have gotten me out and as we as we looked at it you know cuz once I was out then we we went over it for a few minutes just to just try and analyze what happened and I realized that you know that I had held on to this rule of mine MH even though part of me was like you know what should I try it and I didn’t I didn’t try it and so then I got a worst position worst position worst position so the lesson learned is that sometimes you got to break your rules now the the thing is it’s not just jiujitsu right it’s not just Jiu-Jitsu it’s about business it’s about life it’s about relationships it’s about not getting stuck in a rut and it’s about being able because it’s another thing is I I was in my own head I didn’t detach from the situation I didn’t look at it from another position and say okay you know is getting worse right now I just was stuck there mentally so you got to think you got to you got to think about your rules objectively and I didn’t do that and it’s a rule that has has has saved me many times but this time it it cost me dearly dearly so don’t let your rules rule you mhm you got to keep ruling your rules don’t let your rules rule you yeah you um another way to kind of look at that as a like a black and white mind you know like don’t stick your mind is more or less black and white for sure well as far as how you think generally speaking but don’t neglect the gray there’s so much gray in there and of course you know if you have rules and they’re solid rules man yeah stick to those rules but like I said don’t neglect the gray you know like you say you got to break a rule every once in a while don’t be just hey rules are meant to be broken let’s just break the no don’t do that yeah some people use that as a uh some people use that as a uh excuse just to do whatever they want yeah exactly and they’re wrong too they lack the discipline y next question let’s do it I’m glad you use that mount Escape by the way check do you have any advice on consoling a member of your team that you’re leading who knows they’re to blame for the project failing or um falling through the person in question is a great worker but just made an honest mistake that costed that caused the failure of the project they feel extremely guilty for putting my job at risk and I can’t convey to them enough that I understand it was an honest mistake and that I personally failed to communicate enough with them I think it’s a great thing this person is so passionate at their job but is there any way I can get them to distance themselves and show them that this one failure is not that big of a deal so um yeah like like the the question says it’s cool that you got somebody that’s passionate right that’s great and it sounds like they want to take ownership and that’s great too it sounds like they are having trouble moving on so in this case no no major complication this is it not that big of a deal you just got to talk them through it and for me I would use probably some kind of you know some stories a real simple one is like about parachuting and if you’re parachuting one of the main training points when you’re parachuting and something goes wrong is you don’t get focused on just trying to fix the bad shoot MH because that’s what gets people killed they’re looking up they think maybe they can save the shoot they think they can make it open somehow and the next thing you know they hit the ground right and they die so what they do is they they teach you that hey you got a bad shoot you know you pull your main parachute and it doesn’t open correctly you take a look at it you go okay is this thing going to open or not you make a decision and then you cut it away and it’s gone and you focus on the next thing which is getting your reserve parachute to come out to save your life mhm the one that didn’t open doesn’t matter anymore so move on you can think about it like a uh like a shooting competition too because it’s the same thing you you when you’re shooting you don’t want to shoot you don’t want to think about the last shot that you just missed and you don’t want to think about the next shot that’s a hard shot or a far shot or you don’t want to think about those other shots you want to think about the shot that you’re taking that’s the one that you want to think about and if you’re getting caught in the past it’s going to ruin what you’re trying to do in the present so you you know you have to move on this is something this you know you got to explain to your employee that’s get you’re like listen I understand that you that you had a rough time if you can’t let that go it’s going to screw up the project we’re working on now so let’s let that go let’s move on so that’s what I’d say to him say listen look buddy I know this one went bad I get it you feel bad appreciate it it’s over it’s in the past let’s take the lessons learned and we got to move on let’s not dwell on yesterday if we dwell on yesterday it takes our Focus off of today and tomorrow which are the things we can actually control MH we can actually control what we’re doing today we can actually control what we’re going to do tomorrow we don’t have any control over what happened yesterday that’s gone so what I need you to do is focus on this mission now and making sure we execute it 100% that that sense of or that access to control over over a situation that’s so critical to to know when you’re in that position because to know what to know that that you can control it yeah to have it on the front you can canot control what you can and can control yeah to to like I said have access to that cuz it feels as far as feelings go it feels like use the parachute analogy um it feels like dang there’s the problem the parachute that’s the problem so all my attention and all my emotional um energy and is is is on that that’s the problem but like how you said if you just H just focus on the fact that hey I can’t control that bad shoot that bad shoot is gone that’s you know and cut away and yeah focus on the thing but like I said man that’s the that’s the key right there to understand that man you don’t you don’t have control over that anymore we’re done with that we’re not doing that anymore yeah we’re doing this new stuff and you know I should have said said that on the last one about talking about breaking rules I said business I said life I forgot to say combat but combat’s the same way if you get stuck in a standard operating procedure and you won’t see your way out of it you’re going to you’re going to pay and it’s the same thing in combat if you make one bad decision on the battlefield and now you start dwelling on that bad decision you got to forget about that you got to move on you got to move forward so you know the only reason you look back is to just assess the Lessons Learned you’re going to take away from it and then turn back around and look forward don’t get sucked into the past and get around and pulled back there cuz you can’t control it you can’t change what happened move on buddy that other question the black and white mine one um or you breaking your own rules your one rule kind of like um on on Ghostbusters one don’t cross the streams you ever watch Ghostbusters yeah same thing man but then they had to eventually right they had to cross the streams streams to kill that the demon yeah you’re riching man I think you actually intentionally tried to do this that was a little reach that was a little reach no those are understandable terms okay Joo what’s the best advice heading into the military straight from high school and this this question is actually from uh my brothers from Down Under Kane do and Nicholas Bennett and they’ve been uh they’ve been down there you Australia getting their getting their 400 a m wakeup Challenge on for about I don’t know 35 or 40 days there at this point and what’s cool what’s been cool is hearing their feedback as they’ve kind of turned their lives around and they’re getting all the stuff done and actually you know what was hilarious he sent a one of them s a tweet with a picture of a text conversation with some company that they were trying to work with and it said something like the the time on the Tweet was you know :01 in the morning or something like that and you know he said hey are you still offering blank or some program or whatever and then the response was yes we are still offering that and then and then the you know the reply was okay I’m really interested in accessing that program or whatever and the response was okay but don’t text people at 5:00 a m and then the response to that was okay wake up earlier yeah which I thought was classic so those guys are rocking it’s very cool to see uh so and it’s actually one of the and I forget which one of them one of their’s brother others is going in the military which is awesome very cool to see the Australian military work with them a little bit I actually work with them on a small level a lot meaning that I worked with a couple of their soldiers a lot over the years but I never worked with them in a big unit but they were great guys uh here’s a couple real simple things and I’m assuming that he’s going to some kind of army or some kind of ground force he’s going to be a a trooper on the ground obviously be in shape do runs do push-ups do sit-ups do pull-ups I would say be ready to March in Boots that’s one of the things that you do in any infantry unit that is shocking to civilians is putting on boots and putting on Ruck sacks and walking long distances why do do your feet get like your feet get trashed uh it’s it’s just a different kind of exercise you know we talked about this before hump a rock man you got to just put on a rock and hump a rock and you got to wear whatever Footwear they’re going to supply you try and get the closest thing to that and get your feet ready for it so that you so that you don’t get your feet destroyed be comfortable in the water so most military has some kind of water testing you know where they’re going to throw you in the pool whatever uh you know going with a normal haircut it’s not going to make that big of a deal because you know they’re going to shave your head within moments of showing up so that’s not that big of a deal but uh detach okay you’re going to get in these crappy situations where people going to be yelling at you they’re making you a bunch of stuff just detach just just attach and watch it cuz the drill instructors are hilarious and if you’re if if you’re getting if they’re in your face you can be like damn this is harsh but if they’re in your face but you’re watching it from a free place of mind it’s so awesome to watch and it’s so fun it’s so easy to understand what they’re doing you know you got to remember they’re not going to kill you in training uh and and enjoy it I had fun I had fun in all my indoctrination courses which is you know your all your courses were you’re getting treated like a recruit so for me it was boot camp it was buds it was airborne school and and really in OCS too officer candidate school all those things I had a great time I had a I had a blast at those schools I had fun getting indoctrinated I embraced the little rules that they throw out I EMB brace on them I take them to the extreme and I that’s that’s how I ended up having fun fun with it and then the last thing I would say and and I actually I almost missed this but this is this might be the most important thing okay so you’re 18 years old you just got done with high school you show up in the military and guess what you start getting a paycheck all of a sudden you’re the richest guy in the world cuz at Mickey D’s you were making 750 an hour and all of a sudden now you’re getting a fat paycheck of you know $2 200 a month and but you don’t have any expenses cuz you’re living in the barracks or whatever you got all your food coming to you so what are you going to do with that money well a lot of guys in the military what they do with that money is they blow it they blow it on women and whiskey and they get the big toys right they get the massive toys they get the massive trucks and motorcycles and Harley and and everything like that I’m not I got nothing against those things but what you need to do is save your money and you know they throw figures around 15% of your paycheck 20% of your paycheck 10% of your paycheck but put that money somewhere longterm where you’re going to grow it and then I would tell you you know I just buy a house buy a house and then rent out the rooms to three guys and you sleep on the couch and have them be paying your mortgage and when you get them all stabilized and that mortgage is kind of covered go buy another house and do that every few years and there’s no reason to retire from the military and not be completely set where you never have to work again if you just don’t blow all your money right on stuffff that you don’t need and I’m not saying you got to live like a monk right but just don’t blow all of it blow some of it don’t blow all of it and that’s uh that’s real important to all the all the folks joining the military or new to the military you you can uh you can make that happen Financial discipline equals Financial Freedom there you go it’s good next question I’m a fire fighter SLP paramedic historically my profession has always been composed of alpha men and all he had to worry about was teaching the skill and not the aggressive side of a person that is key within this job we now face a new generation where they’re hiring sof they’re hiring softer men quote unquote softer men due to upper management and Human Resources criteria so when you when you get these guys the drive that is needed to do the job is not there I Tru I truly believe that our profession is a calling uh that goes for all public servants in military alike so my question to you is how do you instill aggression or passion how do you instill it how do you turn a soft man into an alpha male skill can be taught but aggression and passion is where I come up short and tend to get frustrated because some people don’t love this job the way I do those soft men will potentially be put in a position where they may have to pull me out of a fight or even save someone’s life and aggression will be key call me crazy but I’d rather have the alpha male that gets after it on a daily basis to pull me out yeah no doubt about that you want to have the guy that’s going to be aggressive and make things happen at the moment of truth so how do you do that how do you instill that well number one hard training you know you got to set up training for your people that is tough that challenges them and at first there’ll be some you know complaining about it and whatever else but eventually people start to embrace that heart training it starts to make them feel proud right and that’s what you want them to do you want to push them mentally and physically and you want to have them understand a very important premise because if you take the fact that these guys are let’s call them softer mhm well that means they they want to have like you know they want to be safe right well you need to teach these guys that the best way to mitigate risk is to be aggressive right if you want to mitigate risk the best way to mitigate risk is to be aggressive so example if you think a fight’s going to happen what’s the best way to you know control that situation it’s to be aggressive it’s to aggressively attack the enemy if you’re in a gunfighting situation and someone’s attacking you what’s the best thing to do is flank them and attack them you want to be aggressive in a firefight it and if you’re fighting a fire you want to fight the fire right you don’t want to let the fire burn and get out of control you want to aggressively get the fire under control so aggression is the best way to mitigate risk so get these guys in that mentality of where they recognize that the aggression is an important facet of what they’re doing and you want to put them in training scenarios where the aggression wins and paity loses you you want to put them in a situation where oh guess what you sat back and waited and now we got the whole building on fire or you sat back and wait and now the people that we could have rescued 3 minutes ago are going to die because you hesitated at the moment of truth so you got to teach them that aggressiveness over and over and over again and I think that’s that’s that’s what you got to do um I know that I one one one seal officer that I was working with we were going through land Warfare training and land Warfare training is you got machine guns firing you got Rockets going off you got smoke grenades it’s Mayhem and if you’re going to you have to grab control of the situation so you’re doing what we call Immediate action drills and everyone’s shooting live fire and they’re maneuvering and you’ve got to grab control of the situation and you’ve got to make things happen aggressively through force of will and so this one seal officer who I thought was a great guy he he he like wasn’t making it happen he wasn’t being aggressive enough and I said to him I said hey man you got to be more aggressive you got to get you got to get fired up with your guys and he said he literally said to me I remember like it was yesterday he goes I don’t know if I can get any more fired up and I said okay hang with me and I just just just follow me and I took command of his Squad mhm of eight guys I said just follow me so we went we got in a contact drill and the shooting started and boom I showed him what aggression looked like hey you two set up on this corner right here you get up there start laying down fire you over here start getting a head count and you’re yelling placing guys making it happen through force of will it’s being aggressive and it was that was all it took like he just didn’t understand the difference he didn’t understand what aggression looked like and he didn’t understand how it impacted the situation when you’re not being aggressive out on the battlefield you have no control things will things will just things will just happen and you will have no control of them so and guess what it’s the same thing in life if you’re not aggressively pursuing your goals again that doesn’t mean you’re aggressively confronting people at every turn no it means you’re aggressively pursuing your goals through any means necessary it like again people get confused and think that I’m in someone’s face hey we’re doing this my way no no no you’re aggressively pursuing your goals you’re not aggressively pursuing people you’re not aggressively pursuing personalities you’re not aggressively confronting people you’re confronting the challenge not the people do you have to confront people sometimes yes of course you do but you’re aggressively confronting and attacking the challenge the mission not the people but but anyways this guy didn’t quite understand so I had to show him I had to let him see what that looked like what it look like to say you know hey take it out right here grab a guy and say set a corner right here start moving guys and and have them see that and guess what then you get the other people in the in the squad start seeing it and they start active acting aggressively to make things happen and that’s that’s when you do it that’s that’s that’s what you do and and obviously what that means is you as a leader you have to lead you have to show these guys the way how important aggression is and how to do it yeah in kind of in life I think you you kind cuz again it’s it’s one of those things that that sounds pretty simple it’s either be aggressive or you’re not being aggressive kind of thing but it’s so hard because like like for example if you’re in life a lot of people they sit back and wait for things to kind of happen like oh I’m waitting you know you hear people say it just hasn’t happened for me yet I’m waiting for my big break kind of thing no wrong attitude yeah exactly but when you’re in that situation it kind of seems like that’s how the world works so it doesn’t they and a lot of it you know it’s maybe how people are raised I don’t know um where if if you don’t know what that is that if you don’t have access to that feeling of being an aggressive person it’s hard to get there until like how you said if someone shows you like in the exact situation that you’re in and in your case it was that one specific um training situation you showed them how so it probably clicked right away but in life there’s all these situations so just to be an aggressive person might be kind of hard for someone to access unless they had like a mentor or something you know someone who demonstrated it it definitely is it definitely is hard in life it’s hard to show people all the different situations and be because then you also can end up with people that are overly aggressive right or aggressive on the wrong thing in theong Direction you know I said this someone the other day they were talking about being they talking about like I’m super passionate about this and I said don’t aim your passion at the people yeah because people find that offensive you got to aim your passion at the mission and let let I mean there will be some collateral encouragement when people see someone that’s fired up when people see someone that’s passionate it get it makes people excited about the mission as well but if I hit you with my passion if I aim my passion at you all of a sudden you’re intimidated by it you’re turned off by it you’re def made defensive by it so that’s what you have to be careful you want to aim your passion aim your aggression at the mission not at the people what you want to do with people you want to influence them you want to steer them you want to pull them along you want to make them give them the idea so they think that they’re moving in that direction on their own you actually want them to be never mind think you want them to move in that direction on their own own that’s leadership and so that’s what you got to do with this aggressive thing it’s a it’s definitely a really good question I would also say you know what what music are they listening to what what what TV shows are they watching what movies are they watching are they watching UFC straight up are they watching people fight are you doing any training are you hitting bags are you throwing some Muay Thai kicks are you grappling you know do those things raise aggression levels are are they working out hard you know like no kidding squatting heavy weights increases your testosterone period MH it really does so get on the squat rack and start getting that testosterone flowing through your system yeah let’s go to the next question be aggressive on that one just be aggressive and Lead aggressively yeah funny how you mentioned UFC cuz you can kind of in that regard you can learn a little bit cuz you can hear like you always hear the coach or whatever yelling saying be first be first be first all kinds of stuff like that yeah you definitely don’t hear him say hey sit back and wait to get attacked yeah exactly they you don’t hear them say okay be defensive yeah or be passive yeah exactly doesn’t happen next question um some Jiu-Jitsu talk what type of style do you play aggressive passive reactive or Smash and pass etc etc etc well I mean I’ve trained with you you probably you know have an assessment your assessment of my game which will be a limited assessment by the way because the game that I show you is the is the is built to contend with what you bring to the table Yeah if you brought it something else you’d see something else yeah and and I’m a little bit beyond that cuz I witness UN in all the time more so before than nowadays but yeah I would say my assessment yeah okay yeah so you watch me with other people and you can see so you do see that I train different ways with other people yeah yeah and really that’s really the core of the evaluation is that you you when you roll with people you it’s like your real um it’s like variable style you know it changes so and it depends your mood too like if you’re just messing around with me or whatever you’re like you know how this is kind of weird but you do this thing that no one really does and you look like you look me in the eye like while you’re rolling it’s weird because I know you’re just messing with me like oh like everything I do you’re like oh that was cute kind of kind of an attitude and then you know if I talk too much um you know whatever then you’ll you’ll yeah Smash and pass so in regards to these these choices um all all all of the above right so so passive when you’re kind of taunting and maybe even learning or not learning is taunting a style of Jiu-Jitsu yes yes it is it’s your style and so you’ll be passive kind of waiting for me to do something and then if it doesn’t work then you taunt some more and then so that’s passive and then reactive is obviously you know reacting to anything that I try to do aggressive is when either time runs is running short or I talk too much and smack SM and pass is the result of that aggressive stuff in really in replace of Smash and pass I mean I think the alternate for me is is a little something that we like to call the disrespect right the disrespect yeah which is when you just completely disrespect the person’s guard and just pass and smash them yeah yeah yeah the disrespect for sure um yeah and I think I think the key point for this for me is is that I I know like I I agree with you like I have a decent guard I’m I have a good top position position I’m pretty good at guard passing whatever I’m not I’m not great at Jiu-Jitsu but I’m decent at some areas and I’m pretty one thing I am is I’m pretty comfortable like in just about any situation there’s no situation where I’m there’s no situation where I’m freaked out like I don’t mind being in half guard I don’t mind being on half guard top bottom I don’t mind being guard closed open whatever I don’t mind being mounted I can pretty much handle any situation you know and again when you’re training with Dean right it’s you know you get you get very comfortable with people because you have a guy that’s just a Savage and um but but what’s what’s interesting about this is for me and and I talked about this I mean I talked about this there’s a dichotomy here right like if being aggressive is not working then you have to try that other game you know I always say if you’re if you’re trying to pass someone’s guard really close and you can’t do it back away right because there’s an opening there and it’s the same again it’s the same thing with life right if you’re beating your head against the wall try a different route when there’s one door that’s closed or heavily defended in combat go find another door go breach a window go find another way there’s an opening somewhere else and I think that’s what my game is I think that’s what my game is is it’s like you said variable yeah based on a a variety of influences both in my world and in my opponent’s world yeah and surprisingly and I think that people a lot of people wouldn’t really assume this right away is that you’re um yeah sure you’re going to smash and you’re aggressive and kind of rough a you know a lot of times but you’re like um like a playful jiujitsu guy you know I was going to say this and this is I think this is important I had a guy ask me how hard do you go right right and the answer is very easy I go just hard enough that I’m staying ahead of the other person now with you so those of you that are listening on audio Eko is making a face because there are times when I have to step up my game a little bit and and put the wood times where straight up that’s not true yeah yeah okay okay yeah but there might be some oh you know why that’s because you come in with you we sometimes you come in with a you know with an attitude of I can see it in your eyes you’re like today’s the day and you come in there and you got the the serious look on your face and I okay cool it’s going to be like that right on mhm and so then yeah I have to bring in the heat a little bit Yeah Yeah fully yeah but that same and this is the part where I think is kind of kind of interesting is that you do it doesn’t seem like a war like it seems like a war but all within the confines of some silly G not silly but some game well it is a game yeah but but it’s it’s obvious though you know like I I think that someone who maybe never seen your r or never had that experience with you specifically they would assume that you’re this like heavy minded guy I’m going to smash and that me and that I am taking this really seriously you know no I some guys are like that yeah that’s true it’s not that I don’t take jiujitsu seriously but Jiu-Jitsu is fun to me it’s so fun to me and I think that the better you get the more fun it gets and the less you have to be like that you know and I don’t mind when people come at me like that cuz I still get to do the same thing you know I still get to have fun yeah and yeah no Jiu-Jitsu should be fun it really should be fun the funner it is for you the longer you’re going to do it for now part of the fun can be submitting people and you get people that that’s the only fun that they have in Jiu-Jitsu is when they submit people and that’s not what I’m talking about yeah I think that’s kind of the Transitions and the the the flowing and the utilizations of moves and the cool things that happen and you know sometimes I’ll be rolling with whoever and like some just like someone will do something really cool and you start laughing like man that was awesome that’s Jiu-Jitsu that should be Jiu-Jitsu should be fun it shouldn’t be this uh it shouldn’t [Music] be it shouldn’t be the fun shouldn’t come from just submitting people right that’s just bullying right yeah in a way yeah and you know you shouldn’t get you should at a certain point you go you know what okay cool I can tap people out but let’s let’s let’s do this for the reason of the sport itself the the the game itself which is a fun game yeah I know guys who had told me straight up that when they’re driving up to the gym they have anxiety yeah like anxiet like oh what am I going to do or if they get Tapped Out it ruins their day or their week or whatever yeah no I have none of that yeah I’m rolling the J Jim just in totally yeah totally happy to be to be getting there and get and get to do something that’s so fun yeah yeah I wrode with the Chris Martin today for and it was all like you can make jokes you can talk trash and you can do all this stuff while you’re rolling and doing that in this playful way I mean don’t be a dick you know but but you know just like yeah you can you can push being a dick sometimes it makes it more fun for sure like you can you know you can call a move and then do it on the guy if you’re better than him or whatever and it but it makes it fun though you know and me and Chris we’re doing that the whole time I’m like oh yeah watch this oh how’s that feel kind of thing and of course that’s taken to an extreme cuz I know Chris for a long time we’re friends but talking just a little bit of that makes it more fun just like if you were playing a video game just like if you’re playing any other game just talk some friend you know it’s it’s part of the fun and like I said my original point is I think people wouldn’t assume that about you given how you may come off sometimes but you’re really like that no I Jiu-Jitsu is fun to me no doubt one sport for sure Believe It or Not Jiu-Jitsu in a way like when you’re surfing in California there there’s a there’s a much harder Vibe surfing in California than there is in the mats for sure oh yeah you know when you know when we’re surfing where I surf like it’s it’s a gang mentality type situation you know and so on the mats it’s just so fun to be in a situation and surfing you know leads to fighting often oh yeah and so but in Jiu-Jitsu the fighting is already happening right right so so it’s you know you can you’re kind of over it and now now we’re just we’re already fighting so now we can just chill right yeah yeah it’s crazy how surfing’s like that right supposed to be this kind of Zen thing kind of yeah no it’s supposed to but it’s not it’s an aggressive it’s a very aggressive environment it’s like a territorial thing it’s a very territorial thing yeah yeah and it’s kind of cool I like it you like that next question I understand and agree with all your thoughts and principles however however I interpret your concepts for leaders leading men who are mostly driven or other leaders who have um a desire to make themselves better in maintaining the status yep so common misperception right is that you know the military and the seals I say this all the time everyone thinks that the military and the seals I think that we’re leading Terminator robots right and everyone is just driven and they’re going to get up and they’re going to do everything and it’s I just talked about this on the last podcast it is a bell curve it is a bell curve and there’s a great bunch of guys at the top of the bell curve that are go-getters there’s a solid bunch of guys in the middle and there’s a lower guys that are bums and so this interpretation that the concepts that I talk about are just for leading these front running a personalities that just make everything happen not correct you know there are seals that don’t want to work there are seals that want to take shortcuts there are seals that want to escape by then you get outside then you’re working with Iraqi soldiers that are unmotivated untrained poorly equipped we got to work with these guys we got bosses I mean I got bosses in the seal teams that are either an ego Maniac or that are Ultra risk averse you can have any of this stuff going on you can have your guys that are risk averse you can have guys that are too crazy you got all you know what they are they’re humans they’re individuals they’re human beings and because they’re human beings even in Special Operations and sometimes especially in in Special Operations because when you get in Special Operations you get guys that have huge Egos and attitudes and so oh you think that they just want to do whatever you tell them to do no they got their own idea they got their own method they got their own plan they got their own what they think they’re a tactical genius so you got to get around that so what does it mean it means you have to lead them and it’s the common theme that I’m talking about all the time what does that mean you got to build relationships you got to build the trust you got to make sure they understand why they’re doing what they’re doing you got to make sure they understand the Strategic impact you got to empower them you got to set a good example you got to listen to them you got to take input you got to give them respon responsibility and and when I say responsibility I mean real responsibility you got to build them up you got to make them better you got to show them and let them see not in a not in a in your face way but you got to subtly let them see what self-improvement means to them and how they can better their position and what Drive will get them you got to give them ownership of stuff and you got to let that ownership grow into extreme ownership where they really want to own things you got to teach them to lead and you got to put them in leadership positions and you got to show your trust by actually following them sometimes and again people ask me these questions you know I’m a new leader how do I lead I got a new person how do I lead them it’s the same answers it’s the same answers all the time the principles of leadership now the nuances are there yes the nuances are there and I I to Nuance for eeko then I got a Nuance for this guy over here and I got a Nuance for this group over here the the nuances are there but the basic principles are the same am I never am I going to who am I going to be in charge of that I’m not going to try and build a relationship of trust with them who who’s that the answer is nobody you know who is it that I don’t want to set a good example for the answer is nobody who is it that I’m not going to listen to if you don’t listen to people you alienate them you don’t want to be part of the team I mean it’s the things are Universal MH and again there’s nuances because you might have to make adaptations and you know when we when we did battle leadership with uh with Adolf Von shell and he talks about distinctly these three different types of commanders and how the the boss gave them each their own little adjusted order because he was dealing with their personalities so yes you got to deal with the personalities but that doesn’t mean you’re doing something different from the principles so when you get sure when you get to the bottom of the bell curve and you might see some people that might need to be replaced they might need to be removed but I’ll tell you what most likely they just need to be led the reason that or I think one of the reasons why it the perception is that all your guys are robot and you know I’m going to give you an order they follow it no questions that is is like movies right like A Few Good Men remember Jack Nicholson he’s like people follow orders or people die yeah that was his thing and they say that kind of stuff yeah and but they do they do capture in some Hollywood movies where they show how mutinies take place and how things go wrong and how you know the the new lieutenant in Vietnam is going to get fragged by his own people that stuff’s real yeah you know that stuff’s real so it’s just it’s it’s a misperception the other the other misperception is because of boot camp a lot of military movies are they show an they show a significant amount of time in boot camp but boot camp is a matter of weeks in a career you know I think Marine Corps boot camp is 13 weeks I think the army boot camp is 10 weeks boot camp is a very short period of time in your fouryear six year 8 year 10 year 20 year career boot camp is you know I talked about the indoctrination times in the military they are very short periods of time compared to your whole career M and in boot camp when your drone instructor says drop down and do push-ups you drop down and do push-ups in boot camp when your drone instructor says pick up that you know make your bed you make your bed when they and if you don’t they yell at you and they yell at you until you do make your bed so people get that idea that that’s the way the militaries run yeah Y and that is like you know a great example is Full Metal Jacket the movie which is a great movie but the boot camp scene is half the movie yeah but in reality even if you were a guy in Vietnam you know boot campus 13 weeks and then you went on into Vietnam for a year MH so it’s a fraction of what your real career is like and and so people get that impression that you’re just going to be able to Bar orders and everyone’s going to listen to you it just doesn’t work that way yeah and there’s actually there’s a great there’s a great video um it’s called Charlie Company in v um anyways I forget the name of the video but it’s about a company in Vietnam char company and maybe if you remind me I’ll put it on the on the website um it shows two company commanders but anyways to make a long story short these guys they they don’t like their new company commander and at first they’re resistant to him and you know he says listen these guys got to learn that they’re just going to have to do what I tell them and then it fasts forwards a couple months and they interview him again and he goes you know how’s everything going he goes you know they get it now and they realize that they just had to listen to me and do what I told them and then they go out in the field with the guys and the guys in the field they’re supposed to be doing things and they’re just not doing them they’re just they’re literally calling back like yeah we did yeah we did a patrol yeah they didn’t do it yeah we moved positions they didn’t move positions yeah we’re going to do another you know another foot patrol tonight they’re not doing it so he was under the impression that everyone had like buckled to his will right they were just completely snowing him and he had no idea so that’s what happens in the military if you don’t lead your people and you just order them around and you think that everyone’s just this this uh this uh how’ they describe it here men who are mostly driven or leaders who have a desire to make themselves better I mean if anybody in a position with guys like that it’s going to the leadership job is going to be very easy you just tell them what to do and they do it right I mean I could give you example upon example upon example of stuff in the SEAL Teams where what I had to do to get people convinced that this was the right thing to do you know I mean it is like you know a classic example is telling guys okay we’re going to take Iraqi soldiers on every operation you know so these guys were saying are you kidding me well they they just didn’t go hey cool Joo we’ll do exactly what you tell us right no they’re like what are you talking about we’re not taking these guys out why would we do that it’s going to be risky these guys aren’t trustworthy they don’t they’re not trained right they had a million reasons why not to do that no but how do you get them to do it you explain to them why you explain to them the Strategic importance you have built trust with them you tell them that they’re going to take ownership of the Iraqis I mean it’s everything that I just said that’s what you do that’s a classic example so yes once again you have if you’re in a leadership position you have to lead you ever seen the movie Saving Private Ryan yes yeah there was a part in then in that movie that um that they they weren’t down for the orders remember that it was kind of like a little pivotal part where they they were going to go take a a Machine Gun Nest and they were like man we don’t have to do this so they all kind of got together and hey you know seems like unnecessary risk and he’s like he kind of tripped out a little bit and and kind of forced them to do it and they’re like all right whatever kind of reluctantly then one of the guys died and stuff but anyway that’s an example from the movies where they you know and and especially you know when we were were just doing uh talking about World War I that one portion of the book where he says you know what we got order to do this thing I didn’t feel good about it but it was in order we were going to do it so there’s examples from the past especially where you know it’s definitely was more like that in the past in World War I obviously it was like that obviously it was like that unfortunately it was like that yeah because it caused people to continue you know to execute these operations that were just going to get people killed and you know actually and I were talking about that last week picket charge gett picket charge Gettysburg they sent the troops up and they got slaughtered and they came you the survivors came back and uh lee was you know basically in tears like hey I’m sorry this happened I this was my fault he took ownership of it and I hope I’m getting the story right um but but that’s the that’s the general uh the general gist of the story but then the you know the big story was that the guys were like hey we’ll go again if you you know cuz you’re such a great leader will go again and Leif you know was kind of like you know that’s what world war you know that’s what that’s what happened that shows you that guys were willing and I said yeah but the difference is in World War I they sent him again they sent him over and over you know Lee was regretting and I’m sorry and I I did something that got you you a bunch of guys killed it’s horrible in world one they’re like yeah it happened going again yeah oh yeah and that happens again we’re doing it again and again and again and it’s just a I’ll I’ll I’ll I’ll always just be horrified by that and hopefully um man progresses beyond that and again part of that is as a person you have to question you have to be a rebel you have to question what people are telling you and why they’re telling it to you MH if boss doesn’t tell me why I’m doing my operation it’s and I continue to execute it that’s my fault I need to raise my hand and say boss what are we doing why are we doing this I don’t understand you got to take that initiative CU if you’re just blindly following orders I don’t want somebody that’s blindly following orders I never want people that blindly follow my orders I want people that say oh boss wait why are we doing this why is this happening cuz I want people I want think I want leaders underneath me that know how to lead MH and you know what when you build the trust and you build the relationships those guys will do anything for you and my guys in my Tas you they do anything I mean I know it they did over and over again did operations that were crazy and hard and dangerous and risky never did anyone say uh you know we’re not doing this they said okay we understand what’s the mission all right so you got to build that Rel again it’s the same basic principles of leading human beings Y and that’s what you got to do but to think that you’re just going to order people to do things is not happening long answer to a to a good question that was actually interesting perspective and I know it’s a perspective that a lot of people haveh people always think well you know you led seals and they’re Elite so that was easy yeah but before you said before you told me that’s kind of what I figured yeah last question jao any tips for breaking habits of laziness and procrastination maybe some good reads on the subject and this is a question I wish you would have answered for me like 10 years ago so yeah any tips you know this has definitely been a pretty common question when people want to know how to stop the laziness and they want to know how to stop the procrastination and you know they have some idea in their head you know some kind of a a vision what they want to do but they don’t know where to start they don’t know where to start it you know they don’t know where to start and say they say hey where do I start and and when’s the best time to start and I have very simple answer for that here and now that’s it you you want to improve you want to get better you want to get on a workout program or a Clean Diet you want to start a business you want to write a book or make a movie or build a house or a computer or put together some mobile application where do you start you start right here and when do you start you start right now you initiate the action aggressively you go because the idea isn’t going to execute itself and and the book isn’t going to write itself and the the weights out in the gym they’re not going to move themselves you have to do it and you have to do it now and that means you got to stop thinking about it and stop dreaming about it and stop researching every aspect of it and reading all about it and debating the pros and cons of it just start doing it take that first step and make it happen get after it and get after it here and now and I think uh I think that’s all we’ve got for tonight so thanks everybody for listening to this for uh for putting those headphones in your ears and pressing play and settling in with me and sending some spending a little bit of time in my head I know it’s a little scary in there sometimes thanks for the feedback that you give us and the questions you ask us and thanks for subscribing to the podcast and downloading it and writing reviews and spreading the word and thanks for buying the book and buying the audio book thanks for supporting the companies that support us on it onnit com and amazon com you got to click through so if you’re going to buy Henry V tonight CU you’re fired up to get your Shakespeare together are you going to buy any of the other books that we talked about here which are all awesome just go to Amazon and click through from Joop podcast com or [ __ ] store that’s that’s how you do it and lastly and most importantly to everybody out there thanks for getting up early thanks for getting in the gym thanks for getting on the mat thanks for getting your grind on at work getting your head into a book getting smarter and stronger and faster and better thanks to everybody for getting after it and so until next time this is Joo and Echo out