Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D27OchSqU-Q
my tool manager came back stage and he was like you know you almost killed someone today like literally it's like blackouts [Music] let's do this I signed to Simon Cowell because my manager at the time was like it's a bigger check you're in a label that is going to prioritize you because you're not like anything on their label this business comes around it and it says we can turn this into money but allowed someone else to tell me what my next direction is yeah everyone was like be a star have an Entourage and who you're going to go out with and I was like what do you mean oh maybe sure Lloyd and I was like what none of this [ __ ] means anything to me I just was like I'm not enjoying this I didn't ask myself what I wanted because I was always accommodating what everyone else wanted when did you realize that something had to change well that's a deep one though was that a place where I couldn't actually talk to people because I had social anxiety my manager was being weird our relationship was breaking down I had no confidence I felt suppressed I got like diagnosed with ADHD when I read about what it's like I was like oh [ __ ] it makes sense I can't even hold a conversation with someone was it prohibiting your life yeah 100 still does today but I've learned to be aware of it let's just do something just let it go Euphoria was the first time I felt people actually heard the rarest form of lab get into that point with true freedom what are your goals now the most important thing in my career is to before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode [Music] podcast has taught me one thing it's that we're all created
by and defined and shaped and molded by our earliest context so when you think about your earliest context and how that shaped who you are today and the person you went on to be I'm talking about the like deep characteristics you have the Deep passions you have and all those things that were nurtured in those earliest years what is your early context what do I need to know about that context to understand you well that's a deep one now um I the first thing that comes to my mind is church um family was super religious not always in the best way um and not that I don't think there's anything wrong with religion it just was it was wrapped in a lot of things um that I don't always think is healthy but um a lot of there was a lot of beauty as well in terms of Music worship and for me in worship was work with energy like seeing somebody connect with an energy or taking them from their body with a sound or within with a um with Connection in a church like seeing that happen like every Sunday can do something to you and you kind of learn from it um so that was always beautiful and just watching my family because that like I don't know how this happened but just everyone can sing or play an instrument or they have some kind of musical talent that was super inspiring to be around um and then having a massive family as well was I think heavily shaped me because I always say this to people about standing in the middle of my house when I was I don't know 10. I would have my sisters upstairs singing like r b records my brother downstairs with his friends playing like Yellow Jackets jazz music and like I don't know like um weather report and then my other brother Cypher in a room with his friends rapping and um banging on an NPC drum machine and like being in the middle of that was like I want to do all of them um um and it was just mad like insanely inspiring just to be around all of these big personalities
um that even today when I make music I'm like would would my sister like this with my brother like this would my family feel this um where did that come from that musical household who inspired that parents grandparents it's weird because on my mom's side I think it's the church honestly because my mom and dad were both in in the church um and they both went to the same church my Grandad was a reverend at um this uh the church and his uh my aunties and uncles used to sing around uh and and like kind of do praise and worship and and do like a circuit around the country and that kind of passed down to us um on my mother's side and then on my dad's side he's a guitarist he's uh well rest in peace he's he was a guitarist he was a bass player um and his whole family were also in the musical side of the church so be like my mum and her family singing and my dad in the kind of uh I'm playing with the musician so it was just kind of like always always it was always around when I was a kid and I think music has been like I guess like my the other sibling that I didn't know was there you know that um that was related to us and I think um yeah I think it was between Christianity and thing that was the beginning to me because my house was very very heavily boarded Around Church everything like literally we couldn't watch uh TV and if uh with about like uh the TV being turned off when somebody was kissing so like romance was like oh whoa that's of the devil and then when I went to school that's when the it was like the Kaleidoscope went wild and it was like oh [ __ ] all of this stuff exists I really did feel like that when I was a kid because it was so sheltered going to Central London was like going to another country to me like that's how sheltered it was and it was like home church and then everything else around that was like I'm in a whole other world so growing up for me was just like discovering this other other universe or other dimension if that makes sense too yeah yeah what was your what's your relationship like with your mother and father whoo um my mother was
um like I was saying the church was beautiful but also toxic and my mother was um she kind of shunned from the church because she had children out of wedlock and um like I'm saying it's very heavily guided and boarded so she was um she was kind of disowned by a lot of our family and um she she had moved from North London to Hackney and from then on I didn't I don't think I saw my grandparents for years like um after that like after she was kind of put out one thing that happens in Jamaica is because of a lot of them came over here to the land of milk and honey um with race anything white was better so my mom was one of the darkest of her family and she grew up with um being kind of very a lot of her life was very short like it was like you're you're the darker one of the family so um don't don't shoot for the don't shoot for the stars just just stay on the ground you know um and so because she was around a lot of that energy when she was on her own she kind of it's actually made a promise to herself to not do that to her kids and so growing up with my mom it was very super supportive really um she used to teach us my mom like I was saying it was very sheltered around uh I'm very religious she wasn't taught because women were supposed to be in the house women supposed to clean and doors have a husband and your husband will go and make the money and do all that stuff around it so she she came out of this kind of uh community and had no understanding of taxes no understanding how to keep a house no understanding of a business not nothing she didn't know anything and so she literally had to learn from scratch and would study psychology and study transactional analysis and study willpower and she would teach us and sit us all around the table and be like what is willpower and I remember I remember like vividly like nine of us sitting around the table and at the time we were like Mom come on this is so boring why do we have to do this but she would kind of pull us into it and then we would end up having these big conversations about things that we just we never understood or never got and she just wanted to make sure she could give us something because
she had no money and she was just kind of surviving she she nurtured our music music she nurtured our creativity and when she was coming up that wasn't nurtured it was shut up sit down and don't get in our way and that was her upbringing it wasn't just my grandparents that was very much common and a lot of the parents of the 60s it was just like children are to be seen and not heard you know and don't don't embarrass me in front of my friends that was very much that and then with my dad my dad was he was um very much abused when he was a kid by um his grandparent by by his stepfather he was being a lot when he was a kid and I think that affected him as a as a man like as a father and he left home when he was 15. so he wasn't there for me I didn't see my dad when I was a kid um but I I pity his beginning like because I get why he became who he became he was super Musical and I think that was maybe the most inspiring thing and that's the thing I I got from him I always used to see him playing his guitar when did he leave your household he left how old were you [ __ ] I don't even remember that's that's how long ago like I was young I was super young and I think he came back well he must have came back twice because my I have two brothers and sisters younger than me so um am I yeah he came um I think he left I think he left on me um and then my two sisters um that are younger than me Rachel and Jessica um he came back around and they were trying to like kind of um rekindle yeah yeah do you not remember the household changing in any way when when he left I think I was too young like I was I was really young so so when I grew up not giving a [ __ ] that I didn't have a dad I like if that makes sense I I didn't have a connection with him I didn't um I didn't know him that way a lot of my older brothers and sisters were very close and very like this is my guy this is you know like my kids are like I'm best friends with my kids I love I like I'm I'm we have our own private jokes we you know like like we have that I never had that with my dad so I didn't feel like anyone left I only noticed how important he was when he died like I was like oh [ __ ] you needed
that and like it was out it was a wall you only got this towering point he was when he died yeah honestly like honestly before then I was just like oh it's just a spoon sperm donor like I don't really does it doesn't matter to me it doesn't like it's like it was and it wasn't even by my mom it was just like I I didn't I wasn't bothered about it you know um but then when he died I was like I I had kids then he hadn't met my my kids and I remember my I was putting my daughters to sleep and she had a bad dream and I said um I got you don't worry I'm here and I was like [ __ ] I've never heard that and I was like oh that's what like that's a dad like if you get me like that's that's how important that part of your life is and then I was like also you inherent things from your parents like and that's not money that's not wealth you do of course inherit those things but I think the most important thing you inherit from your parents is memories even like mental health support like my dad always said this like that sometimes is like Petrol in your tank when you're like um I don't know how to get this business off the ground I remember dad always said this I remember Mom said don't never give up like all that stuff like I didn't grow up with that like if you get I mean so um that hit me when I when I was like my dad's gone and and I understood how Like Instrumental a parent could be in your life when those um when those things are around you know um yeah so that's what I saw anyway but but yeah that's really like my parents in terms of how they affected me I often like I think I figured myself out in hindsight by almost by comparison of like comparing me to my peers at a very young age you kind of notice how you're different from your peers yeah even from your brothers and sisters I've got four there's four of us in my family kids I'm the youngest of four and much of how I've understood myself is by realizing what I'm not yeah you know what I mean so when you think about like at that young age under the age of 18 what who are we figuring out that you were in comparison to the the outside world even with my brothers and sisters I remember coming home with um Indie records and I
remember I was working with a girl and she played me Blondie and uh like like loads of loads of like like kind of 70s 80s uh Indie records I was like [ __ ] this is fun like I always wanted to delve in things that were foreign to me because I was like okay I grew up with Grime I grew up with hip-hop I get it but it was like where what are these things I don't understand and then when I would bring them home I'd be like check this out and I'll be like okay bro especially coming from the background of that gospel and um like kind of like you know black music um um it was weird to come home with music that that was so foreign you know and so nobody even knew how to compliment me on it but go like you're doing your thing I guess like you know and and I feel like I've seen that happen uh consistently in my life where I grew up around Grime group around Grime artists I went to Grime Raves but I never wanted to make Grime and I never felt like I was um the kind of black guy that I was supposed to be when I was in those environments I was like I was always weird or like I never knew all the dances I used to dance funky and like I was just I just knew like I don't know if I'm supposed to be here if I had 16 year olds you yeah 16 16 year old weird as hell just just I remember my girlfriend told me about how when she met my wife now but when she was my girlfriend she was like I remember seeing you years ago and um uh you would wear a durag I would be wearing like a um you know those capes like Marilyn Manson came like it was like [ __ ] black glass jet like long ass jacket I would have like a you know those metal Fingers um yeah yeah tube yeah yeah yeah let's have a night finger on and it had like a crucifix on it and it was crazy I don't know why I was wearing it but I wore it and then I had like a Dunlop cap like backwards and then I would be wearing Dunlop trainers and I was just I was just a weird kid and I would I would always dress in the most funkiest ways ever and my wife was like it was just so funny you just didn't give a [ __ ] and I didn't even notice I was doing it I just was like well this is stuff I'm gonna wear
but most I remember being you know I was like 14. all I wanted to do was fit in so all I wanted to do was like wear the outfits that everyone else was wearing and just fit into the crowd and be accepted by the crowd so you sound slightly different I couldn't I even if I wanted to wear what everyone was wearing I couldn't I didn't have the money so it was like what was cool with my family or where our call was was that we were creative and so we found our way of being uh popular or being um uh kind of loved amongst our peers by our like character and our personality if you get I mean that was your whole family yeah all them dancers singers we would dance together we used to put on we we done a show in school together as a family and put on like a concert and we had the whole school come and pay to watch us perform so we were kind of like little superstars in our neighborhood like if you get I mean as a group so I remember used to write articles on us the Jackson 9 and all this stuff like so it was like we were very like like kind of my family was really loved for just their creativity we never had the money to be those cool kids like somehow we like kind of um transcended uh the physical cool like the physical side of cool because we definitely didn't have that stuff interesting do you know who was driving that in your so you've said like the outside world responded well to it and they kind of embraced it and said yeah but was there someone was there someone at home driving individuality in your in your house or was it just the fact I think it's my mom honestly and it wasn't my mom this is my mom didn't get in the way of it and I think that's one thing if when I'm talking about things that you inherit from your parents I could definitely say I inherited that inherited that from my and my my mom is that she didn't get in the way of us being ourselves um and if anything she would laugh at it or be like go do you like um um so like I remember yeah I remembered vividly like that being just my mom being open and kind of seeing my my older brother Jamie was a producer and a DJ and he used to make his own sound systems because he got inspired by um you know like dub basically you know
like dub but at the time everyone was making like jungle but it was all it all came from the scar dub world if you get I mean and so he used to make I used to help him make his speakers for his DJ sets and then he would go out into like the festivals or not in hill and put on his own DJ set with his friends and so yeah yeah like that all of this stuff was going on like side by side while I was a kid you know sounds like a like a really a nice form of like creative chaos chaotic though when did you start focusing on music what age it's just kind of like I've guessed in school I had a band called Dynamics and one of the guys that was in it um you might not have his flow he's a sick producer he's done little Sims out he's done so many cool albums like most of the stuff that everyone's loving right now he's kind of had a hand in um and um we had a band in school in stock Newington yeah that would that would Inspire that would inspire a lot of stuff like um we were making our own music we were like we're gonna be the biggest band in the world we used to argue all the time like we were like like flipping Rolling Stones we thought we were like like rock stars and in our school we would give up flyers and make our own Flyers um and like stick them up around the school like come to our concert and all this stuff so we were just very very like brashy and like we got this what age was this this was like well started popping 14. so you leave secondary school at like 16 years old right yeah at that point what's your orientation in life if I'd asked you what what you're going to be when you grow grow up what would you have told me at 16 upon leaving school everyone knew I was going to be a musician Everyone by that point literally like I remember leaving like we had that in my classroom in school they were like everyone wrote down who do you think is going to be the most successful who do you think is going to be rich first who thinks this and they were this like lab and like Tim Tim and I was like I didn't even believe I was like okay cool I I know I want to do these things but like I was super mega focused I used to get in mad trouble just so I could go to the music room so
literally like my whole existence has been like I want to write records I want to write records and like that's all I do I was on a mission to write records and that what age did that start because I know when it it started to when you got signed and when you released your debut album and stuff but I'm trying to understand how long you'll like Mastery process was from the first time you picked up an instrument or wrapped or sang or wrote but it's weird because of that my brother Josh um amazing drama McNasty bad boy drummer he taught me how to play the bass taught me how to play the drums and I would see him doing that so I'll just copied my older brother but because I have so many then I'll go to Jamie's room and Jamie would teach me how to use the MPC so I would go to his studio and him and his boys would be smoking drinking um and like on a Madness and I I would like he kind of took me under his wing for a bit and I would like go around with him to like in his world which was very much more like it was much more like hip-hop Urban so you've got this full kind of kind of gritty like more hip-hop like we were listening to Pete Rock Wu-Tang all that [ __ ] and then my other brother who was more music like a bit more like like instrument drums uh and I would be around his friends that were musicians you know so we spoke to someone on your team and they said that we could put any instrument in front of you and you'd play it and this kind of like I now I kind of understand where that came from yeah yeah it's just like everything's an instrument to me honestly everything like this table yep the sound of your voice is a tone like uh like I I I can just hear music all the time like it doesn't stop um and I might be I don't know might be like I um I got like diagnosed with ADHD because I thought I may have had it and um so I went to go check and I was like when I read about what it's like I was like oh [ __ ] um it makes sense why I'm so that's literally this is all I do my life is that I raise my children I make music that's literally been my life you got diagnosed with ADHD yeah
it's funny because I was sat here recently yeah with uh with an expert on the topic so it's very front of mind the topic of ADHD yeah um and one of the things he said was that you know there's been this rise in ADHD now yeah in in did the world specifically in Western countries I'm only saying specifically because I know the stats where I think it's 30 years ago one in 20 kids had ADHD now it's one in nine um and his take on it was that ADHD is an early response basically when we were young and there was stress in our in our households the the child when the stressful event learns how to basically turn off their attention as a way to protect themselves yeah like switch their attention away from that thing so and they've looked at all these studies and it really inspired by them where they get 65 000 65 000 parents and the parents who have the most stress in their lives end up having kids with ADHD yeah makes sense and it's just interesting so it's just front of my thoughts you know so it goes back to a childhood but yeah it sounds mad stressful yeah it's not it's not far off like in terms but yeah um it even talking about sometimes sounds silly because everyone thinks they have ADHD um and everyone says it so I I was like I I hate kind of I know I hates a strong word but like talking about ADHD I don't enjoy trying to victimize myself with it um and that's why I checked because I was like I think it's disrespectful for a person with um something that affects their mental health or something that affects them uh their ability to to do what they want to do or like to just live a life that is supposed to be I don't know what is normal but yeah you know um and that prohibits them um and I think it's disrespectful to be like Oh I'm autistic I'm this um without really like kind of knowing um how is it prohibiting your life yeah 100 still does today what's the what's this what's the symptom or what's the can't finish [ __ ] [Music] um forget like like literally it's like blackouts it's like oh
um even in conversation sometimes when people say something to me it would be like I've taken the information it just kind of dies away and I'm like [ __ ] I can't even hold a conversation with someone or keeping up relationships remembering to get back to people um and that in business in terms of networking and and I'm not talking about networking from a um using people like I'm not ladder chasing but there is a part of it where it's like yeah your your life's your business is not going to change if you don't respond and so like I would I would work with artists and it would be like lab you're so sick I love your [ __ ] yeah please like can can you write my album I'll be like yeah and then start the record and they'll be like they haven't heard from me where's lab why is he he just he just clocks out you know and it's like I'll just forget I'm doing it and I'll get dragged into something else I wonder if there's a relationship between ADHD and uh creativity because you know I hear a very similar thing from pretty much all of the artists that I've sat here with about about and what you've what you've just described there going back to the this this uh all these instruments you can play and all these brothers and sisters that are playing a different variety of um instrument and learning different sort of art forms as it relates to like creativity um how important do you think it has been for your creativity and the art that you've created in your career to have all of these I remember one one person I spoke to talked about creativity is being like all of these different clouds in your mind and then sometimes the clouds hit each other and that's like a new idea yeah yeah but in order to be creative you have to have as many clouds as possible I I feel that um I think that's in learning like this like um being able to create Variety in your ability to um transmit um like an idea because I always look at I don't I look at creativity as um articulate in your soul and that that's the true form for me
like because you can be creative but not really tell the truth while you're being creative like you're just like oh I I'm making something that I think people will like um and that there's and you can still be creative while doing that where it's like okay cool here's something that I know people are going to respond to I'm going to get a reaction out of you and then there's the other side where I think to me I believe is Arts where you're transmitting and you're articulating the sound or the frequency of your soul to a person and I feel like every soul has a song even even if it's not in music like every soul um has a uh a direction or a place it wants to go and it has purpose and it's like I I can and I I always ask artists I'm like what'd you hear in you like not what do you hear outside of you and oh um what's it burning boys doing this and that guy's doing this and if I mix these together then it maybe makes me and it's like no no what's in you what do you hear like right here like just internally and so um for me I had to do that to to find um what I wanted to say and and I'm still finding that I'm still kind of like um I I guess it's learning how to like uh be unafraid to be like totally naked because bearing your soul is naked like it's like it's like if I do this someone's gonna be like this is [ __ ] and it's gonna hurt if you're on the process of learning to be unafraid was there a time that you were taught to be afraid um my whole life like everything I'm still afraid now but but I can see it and I think that makes a difference um in terms of um whoever I choose to be afraid but before I had no choice I was just like I don't even know what this is I just was like I'm not enjoying this I wasn't enjoying my career so I was like I'm not enjoying why am I not enjoying this and then I was like okay I'm not saying what I want to say I'm not saying what what I feel like saying or what I feel excited about saying and I feel like my world is being governed by um accommodating my periphery like my manager says if you do this this is going to gain a reaction and it's kind of like your inner child says oh I want
somebody to say he's cute I want someone to say he's worthy and so you run towards that energy like and and I always always saying um in the music industry it's like a bunch of kids trying to get a pat on the back that's what we're all doing and it's like if you see in your a r or you see it in your peers and everybody's trying to get that pat on the back like well done good boy and everybody wants to get the good boy and so we're all running after good boy but when you finally realize that I don't give a [ __ ] about your good boy I don't want it I want I want a good boy from myself I wanna I wanna be like you said it like you actually said what was internally going on and I um does it matter what people um uh say on the other side like and get into that point where you're like um I am comfortable with what I will receive after I've said what I said um from my soul I think for me is like true freedom is like okay cool I'm gonna say what I need to say that's a journey right yo that's just scary man that's a journey so you start you know you start out in your career yeah you're trying to trying to get on you're learning the ropes people are telling you giving you advice you don't know better so you follow the advice Church boy in in the music industry sometimes the advice pays off so you go okay I'm gonna listen to you more yeah yeah and then at some point that's the worst part is when it pays off then you go then yeah because you think it works you're like well I I did everything I didn't want to do but it worked so maybe I should do more of this and then what are you referring to a million just like records or like what what part of your career is this though I think uh okay so like with Simon Cowell and uh when I signed to Simon Cowell I signed to Simon Cowell because my manager at the time was like it's a bigger check you're in a label that um isn't gonna know uh is it isn't is going to prioritize you because you're not like anything on their label I was like yeah great idea but I didn't think about it for myself I allowed someone else to tell me what my next direction
is because um I did I don't think I had the strength at the time to even think about what I wanted for myself if you get me same way I owned a restaurant uh that was my manager I look was like you should own a restaurant I was like yeah they sold a restaurant and then I was like I don't know [ __ ] about a restaurant I've never cared about a restaurant and and I only realized that later but it kind of felt like you're supposed to look like a mogul and you're supposed to look important and you're supposed to gather all these things that that that start to create um oh I'm hearing Keeping Up Appearances that's what it is yeah what I was hearing from that it's like because you didn't I was going to say because you didn't know what you wanted someone else told you what you wanted but it's more like part of it sounded like you didn't have the conviction to stand up for what you wanted no you did that's what it is I I didn't ask myself what I wanted I never did because I was always accommodating what everyone else wanted and I still do it now sometimes but but I've learned to to be aware of it is that because is that in part because of like when we're coming up we're a little bit desperate just to get on that we just we don't have the power yet to say like I want to do it my way because we're still trying we still need to check or because we still think one thing I love about the ADHD is I don't think about money the same way most people do so like a lot of my peers in the music industry they're building a business because they can like they're they're going okay this yeah we're gonna do this and that's gonna come with that and they carved this whole internal plan and I'm like my plan is like if I can take a sound out of heaven and put it on a [ __ ] computer that is mad to me like that that is like that literally lights up my whole soul and I feel so excited literally sometimes when I make a music I cry because I'm like it hit me that hard if you got me and so like that for me is like it literally like I would live for that that's enough for me but then then around that like taking Stardust from the clouds or from wherever you want from the Universe
um this business comes around it and it says we can turn this into money but you have to do this with it and then you've got a funnel it and you can you can only do this in order to get that and you're like oh [ __ ] okay cool be a star what does the star look like oh um be in a car with flipping tinted windows having Entourage and going like you're the [ __ ] okay cool cool I don't really know how to do that I'm kind of really a geek like because that's what I was when I was 16 and then before you know it you're like I don't know none of this [ __ ] means anything to me and I felt like I was being out that's the time I think when you're talking about this place where I don't believe I belong I was in the music industry and like I was around I remember like in cycle they went who are you going out with like when I was first signed it was like Who you gonna go out with and I was like what do you mean it was like oh maybe sure Lloyd and I was like what I was like what do you mean and then I'm gonna send you to this party JLS are there um you just gotta like there's gonna be photographers outside the building um um be ready to be like thing because we're trying to put you around this facade so I was like oh [ __ ] this is this is how it works and I guess and and so being around found that that was instantly like I I thought studying music theory and studying modes and scales was was your like uh what made you worthy of being in this industry if you got me um but it became like no entertainment isn't Croft entertainment is entertainment and people will be entertained by anything so play the game yeah and and so it was like find your way like just try and try and lie as long as you can when did you feel when did you feel the symptoms of that so I sit here I've seen it with a lot of people who did did a very similar thing and they say I spent a decade like wearing the mask and like wearing the outfit yeah and then at some point you know I remember phone cotton saying like she's driving to work and she just starts having panic attacks yeah she thinks [ __ ] this same I'm going to my happy place and she launches this brand called happy place where she gets to control her and Destiny and be herself she doesn't have to do the like oh yeah
I'm fine you know she can be the full expression that's a hard one bro yeah and it's funny yeah we all meet each other yeah and and that's is what all the same boy or girl waiting to get the part on the back good boy good good girl and then and then uh I feel like we meet each other and we're all pretending that we've we've got it together so I could have seen fun and she's like I'm dying inside right now but she has to be fun I work together I'm like [ __ ] she's quite so well together so I was like man I'm I'm lying like they they could see it like I'm a fake I'm a fake and everyone's doing that but it's weird like and then it turns you into this person that's like getting kicks out of lying better than the other like so you go to an award ceremony and it's like we sold 50 million or about I don't know five million records this week how many did you sell and it's like I'm I'm valuable you stop yeah people believe in my liar now I believe in it and it's like uh like it starts to create this thing in you where um if it becomes successful like we were saying it's like if it if it works and it pays off then you're like oh I need to I need to like I need to be this guy now I've got I've got to believe in this guy and so yeah it's so funny like when you're saying we're fun I'm like I would have never known I would have never known that that stuff was going on because I feel like I felt like she had it well together and I was like I was having panic attacks what were the symptoms then for you when did you realize that something had to change I was smashing guitars on stage and I know rock stars do that I was a church boy so it was that was big for me um and I One show I was performing and I was like I hate this but I was saying I hate this but I wasn't saying it in my mind I was like uh I could feel it I was like why am I I'm in this front of this crowd there's not even an audience I wanted to be in front of what am I doing they're loving it but but I'm still just like what is this and um my band when I was talking about accommodating my band's eating my um brighter before I get into my room because I was accommodating everyone to the point where it was like like me please like I'll do whatever I can to make sure you're comfortable in my space
even if it means giving you all my space so my band was eating out my radar my some of the people on my um Team were taking my uh like stuff from my um like they would you know like Brands when Brands give you stuff they would take it and give it to their families nothing was given to my family and my misses had actually noticed this um and I was like no no I was always making excuses for for everyone that was doing what they were doing how does that come from in you that people pleasing trying to trying to think it must be my dad it might it must be like that my dad because I think I've silenced my dad's absence in me so it was just ah sperm donor don't worry and I had to I had this thing in my head where it's like I don't need this guy but it's like um I think uh him not being present is like what do I need to be for you to be here if you get me and I think um that happened and also I think the music industry helped create some of that as well where it was like because before the music industry I was that guy I'm from I do rag one I think I looked wonky as hell bro it was I look back at some of the pictures and I'm dying I'm like who is this guy but but I was confident enough to walk around London looking like this like hodgeboge guy and super cool yeah because I think the music industry was like you need to be this and I was like whoa how in order to be accepted yes from a young age you'd like that like I guess at some stage you felt not accepted by your father is that what you're saying I think that's where that came from yeah I think there's an element of that yeah yeah I think that church as well was there and where it was like there was a way to behave there was a way of being wrong there was a way to be to to be loved if you behaved this way this is what you get you know like um God loves you yeah God God loves you if you behave like this interesting and that's not true really intrigued by the idea of like how how we become people Pleasers because and it typically even from from speaking to Gabor who literally wrote a book about this um he says the same thing in those early years when you know we were seeking the acceptance or validation from a parent and we're struggling to get it we have
that battle with them of trying to trying to prove that we're good enough so that becomes our adult tendency to seek approval and seek trying to you know fit into others expectations you become an artist that becomes really prevalent in your in your life in your music to the point that you're on stage performing music that it sounds like yeah what is this this yeah do you know what so many of us so many if we if we Act it inauthentically for a lot enough time we build a life around that authenticity build a friendship group around it we build a in your case a fan base around it and I dropped it I was like no loudest and then the pain of keeping up with that expectation and that that Community built around you that doesn't resonate with who you truly are that's when the you know panic attacks and the the psychology kicks in and tries to save you but I think I've spoken to a lot of ice but as well everyone thinks that by doing you you're still gonna achieve that same success and that's the scary thing I think for a lot of people where they're like I found myself now I'm gonna make the album that I own the piece of craft or work or thing that that people um that that means everything to me and it's like no it's entertainment people don't give a [ __ ] like you did it for you just do it for you and it's like you have to know that some people may resonate with the true you or you might have to go and do work and build a new audience and and it's going to take the same amount of time but people don't want that like when they're like I'm gonna be me and it's like yeah uh you've got 10 views on this one yeah oh [ __ ] there is some kind of Truth to the yeah game that's the reality that's the reality of it I had to learn that as well it's like um being you is for you and you have to do it for you and you also have to accept the consequences of of being you um and even the consequences of the way you do business as well like I I don't wanna I don't want to talk all around the world saying hello to every and every person not really connecting with the people I'm I'm meeting I'm just like oh I'm famous just kiss my ass and I'm gonna move over to the next country and do the same like I don't want to do that
I don't it doesn't excite me and it drains my energy it drains my Creative Energy but if you don't tour if you're getting a million for every show well you're getting a I don't know half a meal for every show you're like whoa maybe I wouldn't say no to that do I wanna do I wanna go do that and it's like but then if I go the true me that my Center says no okay no I'm not gonna do that well then don't cry by after and and a lot of us do where it's like I made this decision a lot of us can do that you know but learning to like really accept your choices and live and die by them um Can can help you find fulfillment and that to me is like money that's that's that's like you have this gradual feeling building from the sound of it and then is that day on stage was that the the turning point for you was that yeah I threw a guitar in the air I almost hit a camera woman why did you throw it I was pissed I was I I was backstage something happened my manager was being weird our relationship was breaking down um and I I I had a dependency it was intense I had no confidence I literally I was at a place where I couldn't actually talk to people because I was I had um social anxiety and and so he was super confident and outgoing and um kind of like was like a someone to lean on and that kind of went up to my my early days in my career and so um our relationship started to break down and it felt like if I didn't have him saying my music's good it wasn't um and and I kind of looked for it to him for that like like a father figure yeah yeah yes exactly that like I I kind of saw him as a father figure and we we had a really close relationship and then it just started to break down when money started coming in and um I felt that happening but I didn't know what was going on internally I was just like something's weird this is just messed up and then I went on stage threw this guitar in the air this cameraman was there and I remember there was a fan in the crowd because I'm a people pleaser but also it pisses me off I was watching the crowd and there was this one guy and he was looking at me and he was like it was just like he was just saying [ __ ] like you look like an idiot and I was like I believe you ah
then I just threw this guitar man and it almost hit this woman and I didn't see it and my tour manager came back stage and he was like you know you almost killed someone today and I was like wait a minute because some guy in the crowd was giving you a funny look him and the thing that all this stuff was going on stage I know and then I was like what the [ __ ] am I doing here like cool and then I threw this guitar in the air because I was just like [ __ ] this place and then it literally just was like and and just nearly just skimmed her and and I and when he said that I was like whoa I was like the sun's going on I need to deal with it did you have an anger problem a man a mad angle problem but that's ADHD as well but mad anger for issues like like from primary school I I don't I don't really haven't seen that guy for a very long time but it's crazy because it reminds me again of the thing you know gabble was here like five hours ago he's literally written a book on this that's why all these topics are so friend of mine yeah yeah and what he was talking about is there's there's such thing as healthy anger where um which is actually a cure something that allows us to heal because he says that when we have like chaotic upbringings and we you know have abandonment from a parent etc etc we it creates this kind of like internal anger and resentment yeah but at the same time it creates people pleasing yes and suppression so the anger becomes suppressed and it looks like people pleasing on the surface yeah those layers yeah yeah and that's what there was a lot of that where it's like um you can be passive aggressive and it's I I feel like it sounds like a contradiction to be a people pleaser but then to have the volcano can erupt yeah yeah I know I know it sounds like but it makes sense you're suppressing so much stuff and you're not saying that and that's what the big thing is in music I was also I felt suppressed so it was like can I go can I find can I stop suppressing that as well because I was doing it musically where I was in I was in this kind of Pop realm and I was like no but I want them
to hear all the layers of me and I think Euphoria was the like first time I felt people actually heard what was going on on my hard drive for real for real and and then with it connecting I was like oh it was like oh they get it like but but I was like it took so long for me to be able to try and share it and it took for somebody else to go give me your hard drive I'm gonna put this all in my I'm gonna put all of this stuff in my show and I want you to make new stuff in my show for them for me to not suppress it because I it was like I'm gonna do it for you quick word from one of our sponsors I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences I think 10 times better as some of you may know by now Blue Jeans by Verizon offers seamless high quality video conferencing but the reason why I use blue jeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with and now they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called Blue Jean Studio I actually used it the other day I did a virtual event using the studio which I think about 700 of you came to TV level production quality all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop so if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually check out blue jean studio now let me know what you think because I genuinely believe I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to say this but I genuinely believe it's the best tool I've seen for doing really immersive simple but high quality production virtual events quick one right now one of my sponsors on this podcast who I absolutely adore crafted the men's jewelry brand are having a sale right now up to 70 off a brand that's already incredibly affordable if you ever see me wearing jewelry on videos in real life it's crafted jewelry this particular piece these pearls here are one of my favorite pieces to wear when I'm trying to wear a fashionable item all of their pieces I wear all of their rings I wear all of their jewelry and I did before they sponsor this podcast I actually asked them to sponsor this podcast because I was such a big fan of the brand I'm not
somebody that rolls around in Rolexes and stuff like that but I do want quality jewelry that isn't going to change color that is going to be durable enough to keep up with me that looks fashionable and that has a sense of meaning and that's exactly what crafted has in their rings in their necklaces in everything they produce I know the founders I know how much they care and if you're a man that often struggles to find a good place to to buy good quality jewelry that's not going to change color that's not going to break crafted is the answer and it's incredibly incredibly affordable and they have a sale on right now which they never ever do 70 off I implore you to go and check it out you mentioned panic attacks yeah yeah something fun told me about from her Lost Hair everything lost her yeah like I had clumps of hair falling out it was mad like it was like I got to do it and my wife was a big like part of supporting that because she um yeah she just was like she could see it all happening um and funny enough I couldn't fight for her at the time as well like um like she could see it all happen and she was like this is not the way business should be done shouldn't be treated this way and and a lot of the people that were around me uh made her like the monster she became the and she was one of the boundaries yes that's right and so you know like um have you ever seen spinal tap no no okay but I I kind of I call it the spinal tap moment where the Mrs becomes a manager and she wasn't managing me she wasn't even trying to she hates the music industry but she wanted to be like I want to protect this guy's sanity and everyone else around me was like we've got a gig flipping a hundred and something Grand what do you mean like why is why are you not going to do the show and it's like yeah yeah no I know you're feeling tired you're feeling you're are you feeling a bit emotional okay okay don't worry man don't worry like look at what he's doing he's doing all this work and uh comparisons and all this stuff and so there was a lot of manipulation and she was seeing it and I think they kind of didn't like um that so she got she got intensely
like kind of um protective yeah yeah but also then she became Lamar like the she became the there was a Witch Hunt and it kind of felt like it was directed at her and I wasn't strong enough to support her in that time if you get I mean like I was I was still too you were taking the wrong I was accommodating no I wasn't even taking the sides it was just no no it's it's because of this and okay so you would just like okay I'm supposed to have it together but I don't have it together but like no I don't think they meant that and and I didn't hear the stuff that was going on but when I heard what was going on I was like oh [ __ ] this is crazy um have you ever spoke to her about that yeah yeah that's what built strength in our relationship was that I said I said to apologize to her and I I think a lot of people don't notice how strong and powerful women are beside people that are in the public eye or like in the music industry or entertainment industry it's like some of them some of them are like of course wonky or whatever but and are there for the wrong reasons but the ones that are there for the right reasons sometimes get um they're kind of yeah they they don't get treated very well if you get them because it's like you're the guy you're the person with the guy yeah yeah and it's always that it's like you're the person with a guy like um and so she um she just was like mad supportive and she introduced me to a shrink um and got me like like a lot of support like just to talk to someone and the life coach because she worked around psychology she was just really like um she put me on to a lot of things that um I wouldn't have had if she wasn't around you know so it was like super important to have her women in that that feminine they call it like the feminine energy yeah it's so that particular feminine energy is so lost upon men these days yeah we talked about it earlier with this whole idea of like be more of a man and yeah and don't express your emotions and be a tough guy and all this stuff but then you look at the stats around mental health and suicide and you see that it's just not working for me yeah yeah over masculinity is just not clearly not working yeah women and including in my
life yeah have an ability to to open us up to the other side yeah which is unbelievably healing she's mad she's just super smart and like um I just think she was more aware she she had like uh she had this thought that was pretty intense and so it woke her up to a lot of things that I didn't I wasn't aware of and so she kind of schooled me on a lot of things that I think if she wasn't around I would have lost it I would have been like it would have been like where's lab and then it would have been like oh right he's on YouTube with like no teeth shouting at the camera I don't know like some you know how people go like way left but yeah like I think if she wasn't around I wouldn't be around honestly when you look back on the art that you created in that time in that phase of your life the music the hits pass out frisky that you know all of that music you created how do you feel about the music now so if you walked in here and it was playing how would you like how would you think um I laughed now I'm like oh that's Vibes that's fun like it's kind of like it's fun um and sometimes I see the Brilliance and I'm like like past that still hits me and I'm like I can see the energy and it was the moment where I kind of pulled up my sleeves and I was like I'm not doing this [ __ ] anymore I'm not gonna fake it I'm gonna make something I wanna hear and and then it paid off but I have moments like that and then I get scared again like it's like pass out yeah and it and it takes me a lot to get there where I'm like I'm gonna do something good and it's like everyone's like Well Done do more and I'm like I'm just kidding like that can happen when I'll get too shocked um it's just dealing with yourself it's being um being aware of yourself like what I was saying to be conscious of yourself I'm aware of your behavior helps you create peace in your life like and and make choices in a moment that are gonna um support you in more ways than one if you um more than just Financial yeah and finance just becomes such a big thing in this industry even status and finance being a father Finance is like you run
you run for it because you're taught that's the way a man's supposed to be um why did you go to eventually you go to La at what 24 years old or something why did I go to La yeah was it 24 years old you you yeah yeah you left the UK I wanted to go to LA to get away from the UK I'm not even just get away I think that was going on internally like I was like I need to do something different um but this was after you released your first album yeah and I was getting I was taking it took me like ages to do a second and I was like I don't know I was just in my head about it and so I went to LA to go and just just be somewhere different try working with some other writers and like maybe uh kind of get new fresh energy you know I was getting in my head about it yeah you're that second album So You released the first album on psycho I always call it the difficult second album that's what they call it second up because it's like you had a moment and then it's like oh I've got to do that again it's like and that was on accident and it was always on accident it's like nothing um like you can paint anything by numbers but you you can never even in business you can't recreate exactly the same thing unless it was supposed to happen because the world's changed yeah that's it yes so it's like yeah like well even in this industry now like um me and my team have been talking about it but it's like we're in a whole new world most records are sold online like heavily like Tick Tock like Tick Tock that's it that's that's how you sell records and so to come into that and go how do I find myself amongst this without losing um my authenticity um uh what do you do like you know like and and so then it kind of goes back to a lot of the things that have happened where it's like don't be that guy don't don't be that guy and just like keep up appearances um Find Your Way find a way of saying it in a way that means something to you you know I'm really you said because I sat with Louis Capaldi and he said to me I'm [ __ ] it he's his second album's coming out yeah he's like I'm [ __ ] it and he told me about the procrastination the doubt that first
album bang this one did a billion streams he was like I'm [ __ ] it because of the expectation I genuinely I get it yeah I can understand yeah but in any business it's like that yeah it's like we smashed it and um yeah let's do it again yeah it's like do it again be another one of those when artists and when people generally make that move and they and they make they make their way out to America yeah they become like a small fish in a big pond yeah in many respects like people aren't stopping you in the street like they are out here oh that was sick just like I remember going to the Grammys and I was like standing next to John Legend and who else was there there was a massive artists yeah worldwide success massive records and I came to stand in and my Publishers put me in there and the cameraman just that they were taking John John's down there uh um what's the Chrissy Chrissy's dad and then I came in and it was decided they dropped my cameras and then the guy was like this you know when you're talking about losing um or not getting the reaction you wanted it was the best reaction for me I loved it it was like they don't even give a [ __ ] I can I can go be that guy again I can go be the guy yes there was no expectation so I was in this environment where there's no expectation and then it was like now I can make me now I can go and make who I am and I was in an environment on and when I'm talking racially the reason why I'm talking racially is because I felt pulled by these two races in this country sonically and and then when I was over there there was none there was none like lab you need to be Hood go do another this lab we need more pop music you need to be a bit more a regional connect with the radio more do more Simon Cowell music um and it was that there was a pull between me like and I felt like I don't belong anywhere like because I like both and I find I can see myself in both but um there's always somebody that doesn't like it and that's what um kept on affecting me was that there's always someone that doesn't like what I'm doing
and so I kind of became comfortable with that feeling of being like yes someone's not gonna like this like and and if you're a people pleaser that's going to make you procrastinate yeah yeah 100 but then I'm like I kind of fell in love with it in LA where it was just like that guy doing that was just like I don't know who this guy is don't care and then I had to like work on my way up but in a way that was more pure where it was like I'm just gonna do what I love and I was working with people over there that just kind of like it shed it pulled away all of the the kind of mess that that kind of uh created this thing in my head you know about creativity and that's like kind of a process of like reinvention right you're kind of Reinventing yourself from from again because the expectation is gone no not Reinventing um realizing realizing because reinvention is trying to get somewhere realizing isn't actually going this is who I am like peel away the onion like what's underneath and it's like in that for me that's that's the most important thing in my career the most important thing in my existence is to go what's the rarest form of lab of my person of my existence what's what's the Roars form of me even without this body like what's the soul what's what's my Center saying what is that um what do you mean like what is the center who is lab it was the purest form if I peel back all those layers on that onion what is it the core of lab it's a difficult question one that I'd struggle to answer no I call it calling your tears yeah yeah so sometimes sometimes when I sing I call this coil in your tears like it's like I went ahead the [ __ ] scent of you as well I give you the scent of me and I want to hear the center of you and even buy me nuts whatever the [ __ ] is coming out it's like can I can I can I speak to you beyond your like oh I have this thing and I've got money and I think well who's the guy and I'm like if I can sing and do this to you and you see you and you and and we both see uh uh beyond our flesh beyond the things that bind us on Earth um that [ __ ] for me is like that's what I want to see that's that's what I'm always trying to get to not not what you
were taught when you were five not my mask you know I mean not what was was given to you or you were raised into like it's like what's what does your soul want what what is like what's your soul song as well and so like when I'm singing I'm like like for me um frequency has is is a language as well like music of course yeah like hair in a Melody you can you can hear a feeling from it you can hear something saying something to you that's why we listen to music we're like he speaks to me and I'm like uh can I speak to you can I can I actually truthfully speak to you beyond the [ __ ] and usually frequency is one of us like most powerful languages like literally everything is by by by vibration like uh everything on Earth is vibrating that's that's how like and and that that's how we can identify a lot of things you can feel energy if you get me so for me I'm like get into the core of that is like the most exciting thing for me every time I go into the studio I want to be there but I'm fighting uh to to get away from needing to police like and and that's that clouds my mission all the time still today yeah 100 Vada but but it's not as loud as it used to be you got music coming out soon yeah what was what's the process been like making this this new body of fun yeah it was fun it was fast um I I worked with a band my band LSD me and Sia and Diplo have a band and in that in working with CR I kind of learned how to let go a bit and um when I went to go wrap my album after the long album The Long number two um I just kind of was like yeah let's just do just do something just do it let it go don't think about it I did think I did end up thinking about it like a little later on because I've had the album for a while but um um it was I just was like I enjoy these Melodies I enjoy what I'm doing I'm gonna leave it there and I'm
uh alongside Euphoria I was like um it kind of a lot of these things were teaching me to do that like come out of that the pleasing and just go what are you hearing write what you hear from this guy and that's it and just leave it there so that's what I do with this record as well how much is this record a reflection of how you're feeling and where you are in your mind and your psychology how much of that is reflected through the music and what you've created I believe that this record is one of the steps towards um me being naked like I'm I don't think I'm as naked as I want to be yet but but um I I believe that it's getting me there and like even with this album was dedicated to my misses um a lot of the songs on the album were dedicated to my misses because like I was talking about where she stood up for me and supported me uh through the music through like my experiences um uh I kind of wanted to I turned our relationship in the music industry into a um like two lovers uh Bonnie and Clyde riding through the the cosmos so so literally it's like uh Natural Born Killers in space that's what the whole album was and that was my like um uh inspiration for the record is that it's all love songs but um all of the love songs are me taking photos of moments with my with my wife and things we've been through together um and so I didn't even write I didn't write in it like way where it was like I'm gonna say oh a couple of weeks ago on Saturday when this happened no it's not that it's more it's more it's more like um Loosely based on on on like those moments and every song has like it's me uh um amplifying like uh like little moments that me and my wife have had where'd you get where where sort of physically do you does MO does your inspiration show up everything is a song bro like everything in here in the streets in the gym this is a song this is a song I wait for you this bottle's sitting here and if you imagine that everything
on Earth is alive this bottle was made just to sit head to wait to be poured into my my cup so that's a song I wait for you I wait for at your Beckham call whenever you need me and it's like I'm I'm turning this bottle into a person and I'm like oh um um don't you know how long I've needed to be wanted or don't you know I have my own things or things I want for myself if you get me so every every like little thing like um can be like like turned into or dramatized into a song you know like does amazing I'll wait for you and I'll nutritionally completely I'll complete you you know like I'm I'm it's like I'm I'll be your servant it's like I'm I'm but like when is my moment like or you can just find things in it like there's just one thing sitting there and like start to uh peel the onion of okay what would it feel like if I just had to sit there like I was created and I just had to sit there to replenish somebody's Health like have you always thought like that because that's quite an abstract way to think like the the metaphor or the symbolism of what that bottle is doing that a lot of people would say oh that's a you know a drink yeah um yeah that's everything bro and have you cultivated yourself to think in such a way over time where you've lent into that or is that something that you've just always had as a no that's that's it that's it for me like with everything is like because I guess um like you're saying with growing up um you're going how do people see the world and you try to see the world through other people's eyes especially with when you grow up with like even traumas or like an intense home you learn to kind of observe a lot and so like in observation you go into like um storytelling bro like it's like layers and layers of Storytelling like um yeah so I just see every every song even sounds for me have colors sounds for me have pictures um so I always have an idea usually what scares the idea away is people pleasing honestly like I know I I know what my
idea is but it's like learning how to in a business um especially that we go from writing in our bedrooms to becoming CEOs of companies without knowing it um you have to learn how to run your business and turn like get your business to articulate what you want to say without being frightened of judgment I'm lab that just got signed to Psycho okay day one of psycho I get to meet you here now and I get to come and ask you for advice I'm I'm you on that day that you sign with psycho what advice do you give me to live your life whatever it's supposed to be and I don't I won't take back anything that's happened honestly like because um I believe that um everything happens to build you and I wouldn't have learned the things I've learned in order to become who I am today so all my challenges are turning me into where I'm supposed to be so do you think if you told me do you think if you'd given me advice so I'm you you know when you sign that deal with psycho do you think if you'd given me the advice I would have listened no uh no no no I wouldn't have listened to me I would have been like I'll be like yeah man people love my music let's go like because you just don't know in it you don't know what you're going to experience um yes I would I would I would say go and experience what you need to experience because like you're gonna head to your to your North in whatever way you can and some people don't ever find their North because they don't learn to go okay um let me take a look at myself you know like I think that's the my dad did that the way he just he wasn't able to be vulnerable enough to go okay maybe this or maybe like could I change this or actually I'm not happy here you know um um and so I feel like if you can do that in your life um I don't think anything's wrong with it I think um you you'll be able to find your North like by by being able to observe yourself what are your goals now
I imagine to make the cosmic Opera okay bro it's mad no tell me that's your God I want to hear it oh yeah yeah I do I want to make an opera you want to make an opera yeah yeah I want to write an opera can hear the sounds it can hear how it looks feels um and um yeah just I wanna I wanna like make um like uh I want to do things with choirs that nobody's done I can hear all these things that I'm like nobody's done this I'm gonna go do it like literally I'm there do you know we did this podcast live with a live Gospel Choir taught up in another country oh really yeah yeah and it's this mixture between like the visual so the video would come in and it would like crackle from people on this podcast yeah and then you'd have me with spoken words and then the choir would come in and like say the message in music if that makes sense yeah yeah so I might be talking about the struggle I had with like um that the one's self-doubt and then the other young ambitious kid that knew he wanted to be a millionaire yeah because he was insecure whatever yeah and on one hand you've got wait till I get my money and you've got Gnarls Barkley I think you're crazy and it was that kind of like that perfect like music and stuff yeah bro you're doing it man that's exactly all of it yeah but it is for me you get afraid now afraid of I'm just saying oh yeah do you feel do do you feel maybe used to your fears no so like stepping out on stage at the London Palladium yeah we opened up at the London Palladium and stepping out on stage at London Palladium never having done this before in front of people and knowing that they'd bought tickets without having any idea what they brought tickets to they're expecting a live podcast so they're expecting this on stage okay and then there's quite and you know there was a moment of that where you've just got to be at peace with the uncertainty okay yeah and all the great things come from being at peace with the uncertainty yeah you know which is do you feel like maybe your piece with the uncertainty comes from your parents
um yes so I would say my parents were so absent from my life like my mum and dad were like my mum was never in when I got home she was never when I woke up so I got to play yeah kind of experiment if you know what I mean definitely so much so you start building evidence in yourself like well I try this thing and it kind of works yes yeah I kind of never unlearned that lesson you never once you've seen behind that curtain that you can just try stuff and yes and are you okay with the um like if it bombed would you be okay the honest answer yeah so if it bombed bombed yeah no because it's crazy because like I remember I remember you know the feedback we got is like nothing I've ever got my career you get that one message yeah yeah yeah that was [ __ ] weird and I'm thinking about it the next night before I go out I'm thinking that one person said it was [ __ ] weird yeah yeah I feel you I feel even though everyone's listening brilliant I loved it yeah you're just like that one guy yeah I feel you because a search for validation can be a real motivator in your life it can force you to like go out there and do great stuff yeah but at the same time it also makes you really susceptible to criticism yeah yeah no it does it drives you but it makes it scares you know it's like but if you like that's what I love about hip-hop I was watching um hip-hop Evolution and loads of the guys on there they kind of were just like we're already the scumbags of the earth to this country like there's nothing to lose yeah and I kind of when I watch it I'm just like I love to like to just they just go and do anything because it was just like well we're like I have one out on record on the album called only way is up here yeah and I I say um the only way is up um what's it it was like um basically like yeah the only way is up like it's like we literally if you're at the pit of of the bottoms like there's nothing else to do so it's just that they were just like I'm going for I'm I'm taking it all and that's where hip-hop turned into well it's like a massive industry now like and it wasn't it started from a guy just being on like 10 on 10 turntables you know so um when you sometimes I get inspired by seeing that when your next project comes
out say every song in the album gets a trillion views it's the first album ever to get a trillion views on every record right next time you see me I'm going to be like yeah what's going on why are you speaking like that yeah no what do you mean just with glasses lab doesn't want to talk right now why are you speaking about yourself in the first person are you scared of that what I'm becoming a [ __ ] but like anything if you're next up you get a trillion views on every record Here Comes expectation again suddenly you've got something to lose again now I burn it down every time just burn down the house like uh and it's so beautiful to like to be free of expectation of your own and of of your own expectation as well for me it's like you're like Forrest Gump man you could do anything like with that when you're free from and free uh funny my son this is his favorite song right now free from design man um but anyway but when you are free from desire in terms of like the need for an like a reception or the need for validation it's like if you actually put that down if you said I don't need validation you're like you're just gonna go do anything bro like you just go ham you know and some people are born like kind of have that like it's just in them where they're just like well maybe they're scared but they they don't show it and they're just able to just move on really fast and they have insane resilience and I'm like if I had that um like what would I have done what would I have done and I'm not a person to go back to the past but but I'm like like how free would it be and how freeing would it be if you could just go cool that didn't work let's go like and not even that didn't work just I'm gonna do what I'm here to do which is make music do you see any of your peers or anyone in the industry it's funny I was thinking of Kanye West I mean a controversial figure yeah yeah he seems to not give a [ __ ] about he really doesn't I've worked with him yeah yeah he's um and it was inspiring and that's you're not even with Kanye his mad controversial mad is is yeah
it's a lot but um I guess he's intense for the world but being in his creative environment was one of the most inspiring um I've had and I wasn't a Kanye fan like I wasn't like oh I've listened to all your albums I know every song like I literally was put with his current with Kanye through a manager and they were like Labs [ __ ] next hot hot as artists do you want to work with him and then I got a yes and then I went into the camp so I started working with all these amazing musicians and producers and it was just like it feels like what I love which is uh hear it do it uh um it's got no nothing on the periphery affects the the the the division of what what is had what he's headed for especially in that environment sometimes maybe I don't know he personally when he's at home on his own uh it's affected by but it was just the vibe in there was just like it felt like true creativity um but like I can't say anything about yeah like I don't know what mission is on like yeah I was thinking of us had Dame Dash here like a week ago and dating said Jay-Z is all about the money Kanye is all about the art yeah and that seems to be what's reflected from what you see on from the outside yeah that makes sense yeah yeah going back so I asked you a question about your goal yeah and you said about the cosmic Orchestra yeah that that's a that's I guess that's a goal is there like a bigger a mission you're on or is it I I think I've simplified my desires and it's like I just want to be a tap I want to be a tap and it sounds very um it sounds very um wispy but like to be a tap for the universe and what I mean by the universe is that I I personally believe that we are all connected to a a source and um if we're all connected to that source everyone has their everyone's a kaleidoscope and when this Source shines through our kaleidoscopes you see these unique beautiful things as but but we have to make our Kaleidoscope as pure as possible meaning to get out of our own ways to be the Kaleidoscope That was supposed to be and for me I feel like I'm seeing some of your kaleidoscope and
and you made the decision to change your world or to change your maybe facade that you had at the time to become who you who you need to be and you click clean the window you know and so for me I'm like if I can clean my window and and shine light as purely as possible and do some [ __ ] that I didn't even know I could do for me that's a job well done honestly like in all truth but the only thing that gets in the way is fair self-doubt and all the all the stuff that like the industry needing to make money like needed to be validated gets in the way of like oh [ __ ] I'm supposed to be cleaning the window like um that's what I keep doing I'll keep going back to like oh okay sorry I forgot can I clean my so that's what I want to do clean windows it's a really interesting analogy yeah the most authentic self and yeah that's it for me but it's it's it's easier said than done we're always saying it online and I want to speak my truth I'm like that stuff doesn't mean anything to me it's just to to to purely and you know when you're lying to yourself the only person that knows you're lying to you is you like and and sometimes you don't know when you're lying to yourself if you're not looking properly but when you look when you truly look you're like okay I'm lying and so for me cleaning the window is knowing when I'm lying and then being like okay cool let's go we're going back to truth yes let's do it I mean much of the reason why I you know I've always resonated with your music and I view it as art you know even I was listening to it all again today yeah going through the albums going through some of your new stuff yeah is because you have that it's it's so clearly comes from it feels like it comes from a very authentic Place yeah like you're not I've not heard these sounds before yeah you know what I mean even when I go to when I listen to pass out again there's so many layers to this that like there's some like get garagey grimy stuff and then you've got the little afro you know it's all yeah it's all in there yeah yeah and this is something that's how I you know when you ask me what happens when I listen back I'm like oh is that how I look it's like you're like oh like because there's self-doubt it's so heavy
sometimes that you don't even know how you look and it's like somebody could be like you're so beautiful and you're like I'm seeing warts I'm seeing weird [ __ ] and then you you your idea of yourself is so distorted so when I listen back to old stuff sometimes I'm like it's like music just like Well Done kids I'm like man like it feels feels like you're you've got your own identity and I'm like I I almost end up saying to that 24 year old like I'm like bro I'm proud of you like like that's so fun like I I feel you like and I didn't at the time at the time I was like I don't know what I'm doing you know so it's nice to kind of observe from a distance and be like grandfather going well done are you happy now am I happy now um yes I I definitely have you as a father that changes your life massively um so I think um um yeah I think I'm super happy um yeah like like I I I I like to think about that when someone asks me yeah because that's easy yeah how are you yeah yeah I'm great yeah it's a difficult and some people think it's a shitty question because first you've got to Define what happy Means and happy is a mood yeah it's like you know I'm sad happy it's it's a kind of a visceral maybe you should ask me on my content yeah I know I'm fulfilled or something yeah yeah I'm content I think with fulfillment I'm I'm getting there no I'm I'm I'm cleaning the window all the time so it's like realizing it's returning back to fulfillment if that makes sense if so if that fulfillment was a recipe consisting of different ingredients in different quantities yeah right so you need one egg if you have two eggs the recipe goes off it's all about you know with recipes it's all about balance and constructing the ingredients you need to create the perfect dish if your fulfillment is a recipe list is there anything missing off that that you believe now would make you would make that recipe perfect for me it's been balanced it's just workaholic that's kind of like an addiction that I have yes because of early stuff yep same
yeah so trying to make sure I'm investing in my romantic relationships my friendships for real so I can feel it same with my kids and my family like yeah that balance but fulfillment is for me is um Desiring nothing contributing everything that's how I feel like and it's like and and maybe the only one desire is to to remain um present enough to be able to receive uh from what I'm contributing to does that make sense perfect sense yeah or else you're not going to be there to hear it I won't even enjoy it I won't even yeah my kid would be smiling at me and I'm like looking over onto the heads like yeah how do I get more how do I get a truly abuse being present to experience the joy of life well it's the best when you're present with your kids it's the best like you learn so much stuff my kids said like she loves the moon and um she asked me does moonstones fall from the Moon and I and she said they give me um the moon gives me moonstones all the time and she's like um and shall we give them back and I was like I was like no no I think it was given to you as a present but just like hearing stuff like that for me is like it's like magic like it's just hearing a magical mind's day and it's like I'm still uh um appreciating the world in this magical way when when we make it about a trillion views you know like same with my son as well just he smells flowers and like he he really like he if he sees a flower he points at and he wants to really feel it and connect with it and and enjoy it and then he will go around giving everyone a flower and saying smell it for yourself but seeing that for me is like he made something that um got like um I ignore because I'm just so used to it it's like super magical um yeah beautiful and it's yeah I was thinking about my dog there as well how he simplified my life just like I used to say like come I'd come home from like the busy day all these problems and the dog is there just [ __ ] around with this Lucas a bottle yep having the time of his life I'm like you don't understand how simple
yeah it's for fact I've over complicated how simple and wonderful it is yeah but I've lost sight of that with my with my wisdom or with my experience yeah we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest they don't know who they're asking it for okay they just write it in this diary this guest is handwriting challenged so give me a second my teacher used to call it chicken scratches oh it looks it looks a bit this looks like chicken scratches okay what are you not saying yes to in your life that demands to be said well am I not saying yes to that demands to be said yeah I think I think what they mean is like what are you not saying yes to that demands yes uh yes yeah yeah um nothing saying yes to all the stuff I want to say yes to right is there anything inside you that's that's asking you to like step into it and accept it that you're not saying yes to okay uh no no okay so if we're going from there um uh um I think except in what is um and uh yeah just accepting what is like not getting um dragged into uh what it could be and when you accept what it is you're like this is sick like you just fall in love with it because you're appreciating it for what it is you know so I think it's that constantly we're remembering that but that's that's a yes for the rest of your life um thank you so much for this conversation thank you for being here I you are a musical genius I respect bro I appreciate it no you are because because I can't really think of artists and that have come out of the UK I've come out [ __ ] Hackney that have the like the creative diversity that you have we don't have like honestly the only other person I think of is I'm like Kanye you know I'm about yeah you know yeah yeah I feel yeah well I I believe you could I believe with that sort of creative palette and the diversity of your creativity and where
you see inspiration in a [ __ ] huel bottle which is nutritionally complete hashtag ad in the table um is really genius it's a real special genius and with that comes a lot of challenge as we see with Kanye as well but yeah but it's a real special genius that I think as you say if the windows can remain clean bro that's it for me it's gonna serve the world in a remarkable way as it has done already for you in your life and you know the things you've done with movies the music and you talk to me about this Opera I better see and believe it all and I go oh man I gotta come yeah when one once I got it somewhere you've got to come and listen please the worst music listen I'll clean the windows I don't care let me I'll help you clean the windows so we can get this Cosmic Orchestra going oh man I'm down I'm down I would love for you to hear it but um yeah like um that's I'm definitely excited about this I appreciate you so it's nice to meet you and I can't wait to see this next project and all the projects that you bring to bring to the world um in the future thank you so much thanks quick one from our longest standing sponsor hero for many years people have been asking for a coffee flavored Hill and quite recently he'll release the iced coffee caramel flavor of their um ready to drink heels and I've just become hooked on it over the last couple of weeks I've been on a really interesting Journey with huel which I've described and talked about a little bit on this podcast I started with the berry ready to drinks then I moved over to the protein salted caramel because it's 100 calories and it gives you all of your essential vitamins and minerals but also gives you the 20 odd grams of protein you need and now I'm balanced between them both I drink mostly the banana flavor ready to drink I've got really into the iced coffee caramel flavor of Jules ready to drink and now I'm drinking that as well as the protein make sure you try the new ready to drink flavors that the caramel flavor is amazing the new banana flavor as well is amazing and obviously as I said the iced coffee caramel flavor has been a real Smash Hit so check it out let me know what you think on social media I see all
of your tags and Instagram posts and tweets about you [Music] know