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company using the Sprint backbone and they do it completely ethically and I just I like doing business with them they're the official cell phone provider for this podcast the the phone that we use when I coordinate guests and make calls and stuff all that stuff is all through Ting if you go to rogan.com you will save 25 bucks off of any of their devices and they have all the finest Android devices in stock like uh the one that I have is the Samsung Galaxy S5 which is pretty awesome and it has uh a lot of features that like even with this the new iPhones that are coming out doesn't have like it's water resistant which I don't understand why these people are making electronic devices that aren't water resistant when they can make ones that are water resistant it just seems logical if you go to rogan.com you can find uh all the various devices and and if you're a cheap person or Frugal or or you just one of those people that realizes like most most of the time you don't really [ __ ] need the latest and greatest and this [ __ ] it's just a it's a fetish in a lot of ways and if you're a weirdo and you like flip phones they have those too you can buy one of those Samsung M 400s for 72 bucks you can buy uh one of the older iPhones you get an iPhone 4 for 112 bucks yeah um or you can get an iPhone 5 they have iPhone 5es iPhone 5S is coming um they have uh the Galaxy Note 3 the HTC1 M8 which is an awesome phone as well anyway rogan.com go there save money be happy all right Graham Hancock is here why [ __ ] around young Jamie cue the musicast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day my friends Graham Hancock I'll take these off since you're not wearing them good to see you buddy nice to see you Joe good to be back good to see you uh returning from floating I saw your Tweet which showed a picture of uh looked like someone was in space felt that's how it felt to me now I have to thank you for this because you're the guy who turned me on to floating I never did it before you spoke to me about it last year I was so harassed and so rushed I never got I never got a chance to do it I thought I'd do it when I got back to England it
didn't happen so I got in touch with your friend crash few weeks before I came out here and he very kindly fitted me in and I think his place is called float Labs Technologies and they're in they're they're in Venice Beach so it's a totally new experience for me and what made the experience even more surreal and special because IID asked for an appointment fairly late in the day was that I mean he needed more notice he's constantly booked up so amazing what he could give me was the two rooms one for myself one for my wife stha at midnight at midnight two nights in a row and actually there's something about floating at midnight which I think is really is really special I don't do any floating during the day right right it's it's a really good time it's a really good time to do so we went along to Venice Beach and parked the car and crash came out and took us in first of all he showed us his collection of African masks and he has got the most amazing slightly fearsome collection of African masks up there that it's really incredible actually this is a deep guy he's he's he's a trip thinking about a lot of a lot of stuff and I've I mean I've spent a lot of time in Africa I've never seen a collection like that it's just just amazing Doon you know some of the really fascinating peoples in there and and their Mas then he takes us down he talks us through what it is so you know um you go into this room and in it I I've seen in some places they have like a pod where you close a you close a lid over yourself but that's not what he's got he's got a bigger room than that and there's a big fulls size feels like a huge metal safe MH um if you have trust issues you know it's a little bit you got to you're going to close yourself up in a huge metal safe in the darkness it takes a little bit you know a little bit of Courage is I would say is required to to do that at midnight on Venice Beach but we did it and and you know we go in there at certain warnings you don't want to get the salty water in your eyes yeah if you do it's a big distraction you don't want to get it in your ears cuz it's going to block you so you wear ear plugs it doesn't bother me I I just go in with my ears I don't wear ear plugs I I would prefer to because because the feeling
being completely deaf was slightly was slightly alarming for me although I realize a sensory deprivation is part of the deal yeah um and and uh so you close the door there's a towel hanging off the back of the door in case you do get salty water in your eyes and then you just lie down in this I guess body temperature saline solution in which it's which it's impossible to sink and and there you are in the darkness completely without without sensation totally by yourself for the first time in a way ever I mean this is the sometimes We're alone but to be completely alone phone in total darkness yeah suspended in that amniotic fluid that stange saline saline solution with no Sensations coming in no sounds No Light it's an extraordinary opportunity to meditate to reflect to just Drift Away into another place and not there's the only danger I would say it happened to me I kept I find it difficult to shut down my mind my mind is always running and and a few times it when I was just wanting to let everything go everyday concerns and worries came back in and started and and and and started annoying me but most of the time I was able to let go and it felt like I was I was weightless and I was floating floating in space that's why I posted that that picture on Facebook today because that's what it felt like and sometimes I didn't know whether I was horizontal or vertical I felt like I felt sometimes like I was ver ially floating vertically it was a very odd sensation um I wouldn't say that I got into deeply trippy space but I did have fundamental Visions patterns lights started to started to generate purple purple strips of light started to appear which certainly were not there in the in in the darkness with me and that was and that was interesting but most of all it was just very relaxing just very relaxing to let go be completely supported but by this soft gentle water and um drift drift away into the Realms of the mind it was it was a wonderful experience and I felt much better about it the second day than I did the first the first day was some unfamiliarity the second the second night last night was just amazing yeah that's what it's all about it's all about getting used to the
experience and the more you get used to the experience the easier it is to slip into the deeper and deeper States yes it's but the first time it's very alien it's so odd and you also kind of bump against the sides you have to and I've Just Seen crash's African mosques as well you yeah he probably shouldn't show you those before you go into total darkness in a meat locker yeah exactly exactly but you yeah the second day the second day so much better and so much so it's made me think maybe I should get myself a float thing oh you definitely should it's huge I love having one I love knowing that anytime I want to go in there I could just go in there are they loads and loads of money or are they okay yeah they're loads and loads of money yeah they're not Che thousands of dollars yeah especially the flash ones the the crash ones rather the um the original one that I got which was a samati tank I think that was like6 or $7,000 mhm but crashes are more like 30 okay because car yeah it's like it's like buying it's like buying a car yeah and it's also it has these incredible filters that it's set up through like it he has it set up like the one that I have in my house I'm the only one who goes in it but if you it's a commercial grade filtration system like he filters things through ozone there's all these different various steps that it takes he's written like an entire like multi I don't know how many pages probably like 50 or 60 page uh booklet on the the necessity for different types of filtration and you know what he need I mean he's an obsessive guy yes and his obsession with tanks has made he's there's a guy in Austin that has some really amazing tanks too that does it a little bit differently he he does it through a um uh um a company that makes boats and his a really excellent too but crash is like the leader of the pack crash started it out he's the masterer of the game there was nothing like his stuff when his stuff came out now there's guys like the guy in at in uh in Austin rather that is uh elevating his and I I spent some time there and checked out his facility it's beautiful he's friends with my friend Aubrey but the um what what crash did was there was no innovation going on the United States when it came to float technology there was like the standard STI tank which is
really great I mean it's cool you could definitely get a cool experience in it and then there's some some uh home models that a few people had but what he did is he just took everything to the next level and made everything these steel modular boxes that it fits together perfectly more sound deadening more insulation better filtration system stronger reinforced sides because the STI ones would kind of bow out on the sides a little bit from the water and sometimes they would rot and like you had to get things replaced he fixed everything he fixed there was an issue with um the the uh Linings would burn out sometimes because of the uh the heat pads mhh the heat pads would short out it would burn through the Linings and it would leak water everywhere right he fixed that by first of all by setting like this redundant system and having two heat pads too so if one burns out you have a second one ready to go and then secondly he put these thick pond filters he doesn't use like the same kind of filters that a lot of people do not filters rather uh liners right his liners are very thick they're like Koons okay so he's done a lot of innovation he's really figured out a lot of different things it's the place to go if you're lucky enough to live in LA well also if you're lucky enough to be able to get in now because now he's booked way in advance well that's what I found I mean I wrote to him I wrote to him at least four weeks ago and there were just no slots available during the day he that's why he gave me the two midnight slots although actually I'm really glad he gave me them the midnight slots that's the way to do it late at night's the way to do it but I understand he's opening a new unit in Westwood yes where there'll be seven yeah that's not enough no even Seven's not enough I mean there's not there's you could open up one somewhere that has 50 and that sucker would be filled all day 20 million people in La so there's not so many other people doing this in LA right now there's a few you know I think people are starting to um become aware of it now it's it's fa experience we we all need this experience one question I have and wonder about um what about if you you know have a joint before you get in or take some s of s bin what would that do what would that I
don't know what it's like to not do that before you go in you do that every time yeah um not s a sibin but I have but the um the pot is the Edibles are the way to go for me okay so you eat about an hour before and yeah a terrifying supply of Edibles a terrifying dose or he's like oh what did I do then I get in there that's what I like to do okay that's what that's what I'd like to do as well if I hadn't given up pot three years ago makes me very humble there's some something about getting in there just uh and because I've done it so many times um you know because I have the tank in my house I'm super comfortable I can I can get relaxed with floating it's a normal thing to me so when you're on the Edibles too it just takes you to these really really really bizarre places no moments of paranoia or fear you just calm there um I mean I wouldn't say that um I'm pretty good with that though I mean um if I had real problems with paranoia and fear I wouldn't be able to do everything I do for a living sure you know what I mean everything I do this is live you know everything I do when I do commentary for the UFC that's live stand up very edgy yeah all these things are all live and you know they all depend on maintaining your sanity sometimes pretty int pressure but um so I don't I don't have those those paranoia or fear issues but I certainly feel the the the the thoughts I just don't indulge them you I feel the thoughts but it's like a lot of way go not indulge them yeah it's like a lot of psychedelic experiences it's a matter of controlling the mindset and I I kind of equated to just the ability to communicate on the internet and the ability to access information on the internet has led us to this weird place where if you wanted to your day could be filled with horror you could just go every day to the worst possible websites and see the most horrific videos and the most horrific photographs and see the world in the worst possible light if you chose to just immerse yourself you or just watch the news yeah I mean even worse than the news I mean if you really wanted to really change the way you saw the world I mean you could live on a beautiful tree line Street with the nicest neighbors and you know the the the cutest little dogs barking and the life looks beautiful but through the
portal that is the internet you can immerse yourself in the most Twisted sadistic minds and and it's like you have this decision to not do that and that's in in in in sort of reinforcing that decision and in in um you know making those choices you build up your resistance to doing things that are negative you build up your your resistance to indulging in negative thoughts and in that sense I think it's good like one of the weirdest things is if you've ever seen someone who's never been in any sort of a conflict type situation but they get thrown into one and they have a panic attack and they hyperventilate and they don't know what to do it's very weird I've seen it happen many times I've seen it happen and then I've seen other people that are in panic situations or or rather um high stress situations a lot and they know how to stay calm and keep cool and I think sometimes your life can depend on it sure panic panic is a killer scuba diving which I did a lot of panic panic will kill you oh I would imagine I'm terrified of scuba diving I've never done it yeah but I would imagine that being 100t down in the ocean while the winds are moving the currents banging you against rocks and stuff absolutely that's got to be you lose it down there and you're really gone yeah yeah that's a that's a whole another world I did some um snorkeling recently with dolphins I was in um Hawaii and uh I actually did it with my 4-year-old too I took her with me into the water and you know she had this the mask on and everything and she's like looking down and we seen the dolphins swimming under us it was amazing really incredibly rewarding did they come and scan you no they didn't but they they just swam underneath us right you know they really didn't give a [ __ ] about us there was really kind of what are those weird looking things up there they just you know it's it's kind of um it's an eye opener like how little of a [ __ ] Dolphins care they don't care about you man as long as you're not trying to capture them they're like more people whatever avoid the boat you know they came near the boat I've I've been um around them though when they're very playful too like uh we were fishing once and they were jumping by the boat and being really playful with us this was a
totally different experience this was they just pretty much indifferent but so beautiful like just being around them hundreds of dolphins yeah and you're just looking at them swimming underneath you yeah but yeah I can imagine that panic in that world well something goes wrong you know with at depth in a in a current if if you panic you literally are dead that's when you have to stay steady and that's that's the power of the mind you have to it's mind over a matter you have to you have to impose your mind on that on that on that situation because you know I don't know why actually if you know we have all this Evolution why we panic I mean they would have thought millions of years of evolution would have got rid of that terrible dangerous thing called panic but actually it's there must though is so necessary it it sharpens your your reflexes it's one of the things about Fighters is that a fighter going into a fight and not being nervous can be incredibly dangerous yes and when I was competing there were moments that I was too confident and I went in and I couldn't compete right I didn't I couldn't and I also couldn't snap myself out of it like there's a level that you achieve when you're really nervous and you're not sure of what the outcome is going to be there's like a level of reaction and of intensity that you achieve when you go into the into a competition where you're scared where you perform so much better right right and then there's like when you're super confident you there's something that happens where you're not nervous at all you can't get up for it like it's a weird thing that happens so that adrenaline is I think it's a necessary component it gives you that extra charge it's just about managing that and managing it is very difficult interesting I watched I told you a few moments ago I watched this um Hicks and Gracie uh movie called choke yeah and that's one of the things that he said quite early on in the movie he said actually he's always afraid he he doesn't say I am a Fearless person he says he says I'm always afraid yeah um and and yeah it's managing it's it's it's managing that what a formidable fighter that guy yeah he's an amazing guy too uh we had him on the podcast recently uh him and my friend Eddie
Bravo together it was a just a a huge treat for me as a martial arts lifelong martial arts practitioner Master fasinating fascinating guy that documentary I Rec that to everybody even people that don't doti Arts like yourself you wa how did you hear about it okay well my son-in-law Jason saris does mixed martial arts he he he does particularly Brazilian jiu-jitsu at a place called the MMA clinic in London and he does it three four times a week he's very very very devoted to it and he's he's been talking me through a lot of these issues over the last year and uh I I get it I get I get why he loves it and I think it's been I think it's been a really great thing for him and I think it's a really it's a really great thing for anybody there was a time in my life when I did do a martial art I did iido uh I got to brown belt uh in my very early 20s and then I quit I'm not quite sure why I traveled I went away i' lost the practice and then in my 40s I went back to it and I work my way back up to to Green Belt but iido is it's a different thing from from this this real grappling I mean this Brazilian jiu-jitsu what I see is two two people who are interlocked and they're they're sense they're sensing each other each other's movements all the time is you can't you can't predict what's going to happen next in any in any way and and I understand that it's a kind of meditative thing also that that if if you actually start thinking I imagine cuz I don't do it but this is what my son-in-law tells me if you start thinking while you're in there in that grapple with that other very strong very dangerous person I don't think that's really good I think you have to not you have to not be thinking you have to be acting somehow on muscle memory on on on on Instinct on experience you're not really thinking through your next move or are you I don't know sometimes you're thinking but a lot of times you are reacting on in a in what you try to do is Achieve sort of a Zen State a flow State and when you're at your best you're in that flow state where sometimes you'll be in a position where you don't even realize how you achieve the position you just you just instinctively did it and it's instinctive based on thousands of repetitions many many hours of mat time
mat mat time is very important mat time being the actual sparring itself because the the rolling the grappling sparring you you understand like the language of of human interaction like there's a there's an interaction between a person attacking a person defending and there's just like this thing that goes on where you kind of figure out yes and this is something that in daily life in our modern technological Society most people have no experience of at all um they're never in a in a fight situation they're never ever having to having to deal with that so if they suddenly find themselves in a situation of danger attacked on the street they're not going to have the faintest idea what to do no well hopefully that never comes up anyway but the benefits extend outside of that in my opinion the benefits are it's it's It prepares you for like the the drama of regular life pales in comparison to the the real drama of training and of of competing inside the gymnasium like because essentially every time someone does Jiu-Jitsu they're competing every time you you Spar even if you spar with a very good friend you're still competing you know you you you get used to this struggle and that's something that most people don't they don't have in their life and in in having that struggle and in this competition it makes the regular stress that people go through the stress of bills and of relationships and it it it alleviates and mitigates a lot of the issues that people have cuz the the the life or death struggle of someone trying to choke you and you battling it out and you're tired you're exhausted and you're trying to remain calm and catch your breath and defend and try to stay cool and trying to figure out what's the proper defense for this situation and how to turn this around and how to get back to a better spot H it's it's so harrowing and it's so it's so stressful but in a good way so you're totally in the moment yes oh yeah totally in the moment no for any other [ __ ] some girl you dated when you're in high school where's she now you're not thinking about that you know or the bills you got to pay or anything like that no you're not thinking about any of those things and in that sense it is very meditative that at lates a lot
of the stress of life and then when it's over you just kind of you feel very relaxed cuz you're you you spent all this excess energy that I believe people I I mean this not a scientific way of looking at the human body but I think of the human body in a lot of ways as sort of like a battery yeah and a lot of people's batteries are sort overflowing with juice because you don't use them you sit down in a sedentary state in front of a computer all day which is pretty bad for your back and you stare at a screen and you do your work and then you sit in your car car or on the train or whatever to get home and then you sit in front of the television that's that's a lot of people's lives absolutely that's not normal for a body the body is supposed to be moving while you're young and alive and while you have energy you're supposed to be your your body wants to be involved in activities your body wants to go hiking and do things and and if it doesn't it atrophies and it shrivels up and it stops being functional and when you can get all that energy out um in in a training session it does a couple things one it strengthens your body so that if you ever do have to use it for something even just something as simple as like picking things up or you know just strength to to help move something yeah you have that but two you you alleviate all the excess energy you drain the battery a bit and by draining the battery you put more juice in the battery for the future like the battery has like a higher threshold and then you also like you could deal with stuff easier like when I don't train if I don't exercise if I don't do some sort of rigorous rigorous physical exercise like at least a few days a week I I react differently to stress right you start getting snappish and yeah well I get more irritated than I should it affects me more than it should but when when I train like if I train a lot everything is pretty easy yeah yeah I've seen this effect on my son-in-law his his couple of years now of doing this he's been it's really transformed him it's really really great thing and I wish people benefit from it I mean I'm 64 years old I don't know I don't think I can go do that stuff now I don't know you could if you found another 64y old yeah okay or or I could work with one
with one personal one personal teacher you know to to you know to who would understand my my My Level I see I see huge advantages in doing it I think it's I've got more and more interested in it over the last couple of years it's a really fascinating thing and also tell me about this I mean in a way you're being a warrior in there in a way in a way it's a warrior thing I mean this is a contentious issue the human race we've been around in anatomically modern form for the last 200,000 years for a lot of that time our young men um in many societies have been have been called to Warfare in one form or another I would say that it's it's gone on long enough for it to be a fundamental part of The Human Experience actually um in our society today uh a lot has a lot has worked to move that aside and probably that's a that's a very good thing although we still do have war of course but it's done at a distance largely it's done it's not I mean I'm writing I'm writing novels about the Spanish conquest of Mexico at the moment I I am dealing with I'm getting inside the heads of Warriors and those guys are on the battlefield hand to hand with edged weapons um that kind of experience of battle and warfare doesn't happen I think much in Modern Warfare today it's you know it's more the guy remotely PIR piloting a drone and shooting people shooting people from a from a distance but maybe there is maybe there is a a warrior need in us which which can be met in a harmless and positive way on the mat in something like mixed martial arts that's what I'm coming to would you agree with that or not it's very possible that there's something to that I think it's very possible that there's something to the idea that we have ingrained in US a certain amount of experiences based on the genetics of all the people that have lived before us and that whatever fight or flight is inside of us whatever you I mean throughout history like we I've been discussing this with friends like how fascinating this time is because throughout history in the past if a boat of strangers showed up it was very dangerous yeah a boat showed up and you're like holy [ __ ] it's going to get crazy a bunch of men climb off the boat you got to hide women and children and now when a boat shows up it's tourism
and everybody gets excited like oh we need their money come on come to this island come to this place bring your family yes it's a completely different world that we live in it is and those those experiences that led us to that led the human race to 2014 these experiences of people Pirates showing up and Vikings showing up and all those dangerous people showing up in these different places you know people coming over the hill Oh an arm's coming that was just a part of being a human being for for a very long time have you seen this new um thing that was going on about the uh the autopsy of um uh which king of England Richard thei or Richard the third yeah they found his bones which is really amazing man they found his bones like they found it under uh like a parking lot or something like that a parking lot yeah how crazy is that man how do they know it's him I think that there's there's a long tradition regarding him and the battle that he was killed in and there's a famous there's even a Shakespeare play where he's at the end of the battle saying famously my horse my horse a horse a horse my kingdom for a horse so that he can flee but it seems that he died in in face Toof face combat and was was hacked to Pieces as far as I can one of the last of the the the the Kings to die like that too right to die in combat yeah you we're in the sort of late 1400s there I would say I would say so I mean combat went on the period I'm writing about early 15 unds was brutal and bloody brutal and bloody period a man like hernand Cortez is a leader but he's a killer you know he's a coldblooded he's a coldblooded killer I I I I think that that kind of that kind of experience is is rare today does it freak you out when you uh read stuff about like these these days and realize that that that all could happen today we just need the wrong set of events to take place the we're we're not far removed as a species from that time in terms of actual history like it's the blink of an eye between then and now absolute blink of an eye we are the same people nothing's changed yeah um there's been some there's been some social changes but look we're still slaughtering people on you know large scale in large scale levels it's just it's just that that hand toand
face-to-face thing technology has intervened a little bit in that um if our society were to go into a radical collapse uh people could find themselves facing those contingencies very quickly very very very rapidly and it is in fact in a radical collapse in other parts of the world I been I've talk I've been talking about this on stage a lot lately because there's a lot of these this's this Duck Dynasty guy it's hilarious it's Duck Dynasty is this ridiculous American reality show but one of the main guys on Duck Dynasty um he gave this speech this video speech where he was talking about the impending apocalypse and what they call the Rapture where Christians think that Jesus is going to come and he's going to take away everybody that's Christian and bring them to heaven and everybody else is going to be stuck on Earth I believe there's a very elite group are going to go 144,000 of them are going to be floated up iside apparently yeah with the rupture and he told people that they should watch this Nicholas Cage movie that's about to come out called Left Behind that's based on this very famous series of books amongst the Christians left behind and like these these people have this you mean he doesn't he's somebody who doesn't get raptured is that is that the idea I guess I don't know it's so [ __ ] stupid it's so stupid it's it hurts my brain to talk about it but what's fascinating is that they're all worried about everyone's worried about the apocalypse the apocalypse the apocalypse the end the end but the apocalypse if you go to certain parts of the world it's there it's there it's in Liberia right now it's in Somalia right now right now listen back in the 1970 I I lived in Mogadishu I lived in Somalia I lived in that that failed state it was fine place then back then it was fine yeah it was fine why was it fine I mean this is not politically correct but it was run by a dictator and uh he kept things calm you know if well that that has been the case in many unfortunate scenarios um I mean that's what's argued about Iraq that if you looked at Iraq before the US invasion it was largely Superior to what it is now vastly Superior to what it is now again I mean we're not you know kind of not supposed
to say these things but honestly for the average Iraqi living in Iraq things were a whole lot better under Saddam Hussein it was peaceful it was there there was not a lot of uhu interreligious conflict one a secular state it was a secular state in fact quite tolerant and and all you had to do was not get in the face of Saddam Hussein you know that was the simple that was the simple rule of life just don't get in the face of Saddam Hussein and that was a simple rule of life in Somalia in the 1970s don't get in the face of sad bar if you do I tell you a story sad bar Muhammad sad bar who was the president of Somalia when I when I went there in 1975 um he he did a number of interesting things for example the Somali language was not written this was a nomadic Society 70% nomadic he introduced a written script for the Somali language based on the Latin alphabet this had not been possible before because religious leaders had said they had to have it in the Arabic script because they were Muslims he just forced that through then he introduced a family law which allowed women to divorce their husbands at that point 11 religious leaders 11 shakes mobilized the public and said they had to rebel against sad Bari well what he did he h those guys out of the mosque the very same day and shot them all and that was the that was the end of that argument and suddenly women women could divorce their husbands and the society was very free and very open one can't imagine today from the scenes of horror that we see from madesu actually how peaceful it was so you know it may be the case that in some in some situations an Iraq is definitely another example you know we in the west are constantly saying we must have democracy democracy is a great thing well maybe it is a great thing at a certain point at a certain level when you're in a society that's very sectarian very divided into tribal interests very divided into different religious groups maybe it's actually more comfortable if you have a dictator well there's a power vacuum issue the I think the issue is we civilizations largely operate on momentum yeah and when things have been set up in the way that they have been in Iraq or the way they have been obviously in Somalia where there's one guy who's calling all
the shots and they kind of got this whole thing established when that guy's not there anymore and then everyone scrambling to be the new guy everyone scrambling it creates chaos absolute AB hor and hell and it it creates this intense violence amongst the people like the the Iraq the the people that are in that Civil War state that they're at now where various sections of their population are vying for control of this failed State it's horrific it's horrific you have this hideous death cult called the Islamic State um which may or may not have been initially funded and set up by the United States of America and its allies who knows who who knows but it's a death cult and it's and it's horrible frankly I would rather have Saddam Hussein than the Islamic State yeah it's a crazy thing to say right the one evil is better than the other evil this obviously we're we're only talking in objective reality terms here we're not we're not like saying hey it's okay to be a dictator no not at all it's evil to be a dictator clearly is a terrible person it's evil and wrong and we don't ideally we move to a state where a situation where we have no governments and where people run their own lives and peacefully negotiate with one another but that isn't the way it's going down in Iraq and it's not the way it's gone down in southern part of Somalia yeah that I mean that would be ideal right but it's really hard to run a bunch of people like the idea of a society the idea of taking a million people 500 million people whatever the number is and having a group of people that adhere to the best interests of all the folks that are in that society when the their their needs are so varied their resources are so varied their the their fortune and what situation they find themselves born into is so very and then you have the people that are fortunate sons and daughters that are trying to keep the unfortunate from getting into their gated community of life there's so much craziness and you can be sure the dictators and daughters are all very well looked after in a dictatorship that always happens like s's kids like CAD Bar's kids it's always always the case you know that they are and that then generates feelings of anger and fury that that is that that is happening but uh a situation where just bullets are
flying down the street uh constantly and you live you live in permanent fear of your life uh that's not good either yeah the arguments that United States has funded Isis in order to build up support for an invasion of Saudi Arabia or of of Syria rather are really terrifying and more terrifying because I don't want to look into it because I don't want to know it's a horrible thought it's like I don't even want to know I I know that that kind of [ __ ] has happened before so when you see that it's happening now you're like oh [ __ ] is this really going on like is that really what's causing all this it's profoundly depressing and and the problem the problem is that we can't really believe anything that our political leaders in the west say I mean they are they have been proven to be uh absolute Crooks thieves and Liars they are they lie by Instinct all all the time and the pro the problem with constant lying at the top levels of politics is that it pollutes the debate completely you suddenly can't believe anything that's said and that leads to to suspicion uh of all of all kinds of horrendous possibilities including the funding and and uh setting in motion of this Isis horror and it doesn't help when someone like Julian Assange comes along and exposes all these things that a lot of people disagree with and what do they do they try to get them locked up on some trumped up charges and Export them as if they were really trying to export him from from you know to to Sweden and eventually to the United States because of some sexual thing that wasn't even it seems so B violent or it wasn't even rape it was consensual some weird sexual charge like I think they call it surprise sex or something like that it's not they're not even calling it rape right there one thing like if if you if there was a woman who was saying hey juliia Nan she's a piece of [ __ ] [ __ ] he drugged me raped me you know okay yeah send that guy to Sweden but they're not even saying that this isn't a charge that makes any sense and the fact that this guy's been locked up in the embassy in London for all these years it's crazy it's a very crazy it's a very crazy situation it's really weird to see man it's really weird to see him on television doing these Skype interviews and knowing that he's in this
Embassy and then the moment he steps out of that they're going to snatch him up it's like he's just being protected by some weird loophole yes yeah well you could take take take sanctuary in an embassy it's an it's an old it's an old law but you can't leave like he's going to have to dig a hole underneath that [ __ ] like a mile out out of the street and then pop out of a manhole and they're scoop him up in a car and take him to Costa Rica or somewhere where they're going to honor no we live in a time when there are just they just a constant conspiracy theories I mean there's even conspiracy theories about him you know that he is that he is part of the problem rather than part of all of that all of that happens nothing is nothing is believed anymore and that the problem and that comes from uh the proven fact that our political leaders are actually Liars lied to us again and again and and how can we how can we trust them how can we entrust ourselves to them when they when they behave in that way what's needed is is transparency what's needed is openness do you think that transparency is going to be an eventuality because of the internet do you think happening yeah everything gets blown wide open it's very difficult to keep secrets and it also it erodes faith in the the leadership when like is this a democracy is this a representative government or is it some sort of a weird dictatorship because if it is a democracy how the [ __ ] are you keeping that guy locked up how how is Julian Assange still locked up cuz do you I need to know please tell me what exactly he did that you need to export him to the United States oh he released some information yeah which is our information cens this is not you know information that should be kept secret it's not from a king it's relation it's it's information that someone who was being paid with taxpayer dollars did a bunch of [ __ ] that the United States doesn't agree with everyone was upset by the information that was released everyone was upset by that video the collateral murder video everyone was upset by this massive amount of of data that showed there was a lot of coercion a lot of lies a lot of a lot of stuff that we don't agree with and because of that this guy is like Public Enemy Number One
that's that's so anti what we think of as the United States completely contrary to everything the United States stands for yeah completely and that and and so in answer to your question I would say yes it is some kind of weird dictatorship yeah posturing and posing as a as a democracy because for for democracy to be real you have to have complete openness of information people must be told the truth then they can vote and make decisions on the basis of facts what we actually have in our society is the continual very clever massaging and management of information uh this so so it ceases to be democracy when the voting when the voting public are fed lies on the basis of which they they make their decisions and vote that that isn't democracy anymore that is and and in a way democracies are the worst kind of dictatorship because they have this appearance of Freedom they have this illusion of freedom and everybody can say well it's great because I live in a in a democracy at least if you live in a dictatorship you know you live in a dictatorship and there are certain parameters that you have to work your way around but when you live in a dictatorship that is posing as a democracy uh it's more complicated and de where a lot of people truly believe and act as if it is a democracy but at the very top there's [ __ ] and manipulation and coercion and money and corporate greed and and interests and the military industrial complex that is funding all these Maneuvers and and it's people profiting wildly not to forget all the big corporations big big pharmaceutical corporations all of this is about management of management of information that we that we are given so what the internet offers is the opportunity for for ordinary people who are not part of a power structure not running a big Corporation to take power back uh to themselves and that is that is happening and and it's happening in a big way and it it's very disturbing to the powers that be yeah people want like an instant change but it is almost instant the the the the amount of time that we've actually spent having the internet has been pretty brief 1993 is 4ish is when it gave birth yes and then like 2014 where we're at now it's really only been around in this form for the
last decade like 2004 2005 and then social media allowing people to exchange information in the heat of political crisis they've been that are in time that would Beed by the media they they would shelter and filter the information now it's all just coming out and they can't so they have to shut down the whole [ __ ] internet in some of these countries which which uh which is a very difficult very difficult thing to do no I've seen the the huge shift in power that this has that this has introduced um there was a time as a as just at my my own small level as an author where I would have ended on the good willll of the big media in order to get my ideas out there and since my ideas have sometimes been radical and contradictory to the established order of things it was very difficult to do that well I don't need the big media anymore I absolutely don't need them they they're not they're not required at all they're redundant as far as I'm concerned what what is what is important is the community of like-minded people that I am I am reaching through social social media through Facebook through my through my website not to say that Facebook is perfect because Facebook is very problematic uh and is itself a large corporation which is filtering and controlling information but at least it's there it's something there's some excellent things with Facebook though one of the excellent things is that everyone is themselves yes like that is your Facebook account this is when you're posting this is who you are for the most part I mean obviously there's some frauds out there but a lot of when people are commenting they're commenting using their Facebook indeed identity so like that's a real person as opposed to Twitter or a lot of message boards where you're getting trolled and lot of [ __ ] are under fake names and they just there's a lot of people out there that it's like a sport to them like to be shitty or to RI people up like that's yeah it always puzzles me that I come I come across I get relatively little of it on my Facebook pages I have an author Facebook page I have a personal Facebook page I run them both parallel put the same stuff on both of them there's one or two people who kind of haunt me there
and and just always want to say just always want to say negative and and unpleasant things and my view is go for it guy you know say those things if you want to well you're always going to get that if you are in the public eye and the thing to be aware of is that it's a tremendous waste of unless you're actually doing something evil and someone's trying to expose something which you're clearly not but if you were then that kind of makes sense like these people are Crusaders but if a lot of them are just what what you call haters in the United States and the thing about haters is they're all losers yes there's no one that lives a fulfilled successful life with an awesome family a great relationship they're doing what they want to do for a living they're happy and at peace and they also go online and they're very and [ __ ] on people no they're they're it's a mess of wasted energy like they're and some people are really good at it and it's like damn if you put that energy into something productive instead of stalking Graham Hancock you know and [ __ ] with him all day you could get a lot of [ __ ] done you probably a happier person exactly so the only answer at the receiving end of that is not to feed it you know is not to nourish it with angry or or hurted or you know hurt responses well that's what they're trying to do you know when someone say you're researching [ __ ] you're [ __ ] books I wipe my ass with your book yeah trying to [ __ ] with you absolutely and the the answer is the answer is some somehow what I try to do sometimes is to just respond with love you know just that's it's nice if it's true if it's real and I try to do the same if I can um sometimes it's really hard yeah it's hard but you do you also agree I I I definitely feel this about myself that some of the some of the criticism that I've received even of extreme criticism even if it's unbalanced I've benefited from always yes always it's useful it's useful there's there's something to learn from that it's not that was saying you know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger I mean you have to learn you have to learn from this it's out there we we have to engage in some in some way with criticism I've received an enormous amount of criticism from from my work and for the suggestion that of Lost
Civilization and the work that I've done on psychedelics and Altered States Of Consciousness just endless it's non it's nonstop um and my my view is thank you thank you for criticizing me I appreciate it if there are holes in what I'm saying if my argument is weak in a particular area and you're helping me to see that the right response is gratitude to that it they really are in a sense working for you in some way because u i mean there's been unwarranted criticism that I've received that have made me re think a lot of things I do even if it's unwarranted they've made me rethink like what is the what is causing this reaction like what's is there anything that I could have done differently that could have avoided that or is this an necessary evil that just comes with the business like and it makes you think about things in a more complex way and although that might be uncomfortable I think there's some great benefit of it there's some great benefit from it and once again it's putting us it's putting us into a real social social situation as you say these people are real you know um it's like being back in the village in the old days where where you might be directly criticized by one or other of your fellow villagers well now our village is the whole world and and um it crosses all national boundaries and and all religious uh interests it's it can be anybody any anywhere who who's taking an interest in you and and I'm I'm constantly receiving information some of it critical some of it positive through Facebook in particular through Facebook which is which is very helpful to me and I really and I really appreciate it and I try the best I can I try as much as I can do it would be I don't I don't want to spend my entire day morning to night on Facebook but I try to engage with it I try to respond because I realize that people are giving me their time somebody sends me a link to a story I haven't ever seen before it's really important for my research thank you that's really great Twitter's giant for that for me just absolutely gigantic I've gotten more information from Twitter more interesting uh webs sites that people have sent me to more interesting articles people have sent me to than any other resource that I've ever come in contact with and it's just directly because of interacting with
people and when they send me interesting things I retweet them and then you know those retweets get seen by a large number of people so people see that I do that so they send me more interesting stuff exact it's really cool in that way I like that it's like a it's establishing a network in in that sense it's really it's a whole new situation which we've not not faced before done on a done on a a gigantic scale and and um what it means is that information which used to be strictly controlled and in the hands of Elites is now changing the power the power structure of information is changing entirely and that's a very that's potentially a very exciting new time to live in and great things are coming out of it and and it's easy to say this but I think a new Consciousness is Dawning in the world actually I don't think it's very big yet I think the old way of doing things is still extremely strong but people are waking up to their power and saying you know I am not simply uh to be pushed around and told what to do by an expert or a government official or or a corporation and that's great that's a really yeah I I I believe you're correct and I think that it's hard to see while you're in the middle of it yeah because it's all happening while we're you know we're participating in it we are living in a time of extr extraordinary rapid unbelievable change and when the history of this time maybe things will settle down maybe they won't I don't know but when the history of this time comes to be written there'll have to be some perspective on it 200 300 years from now it will be seen as one of the most extraordinary moments in the whole human story Amber my friend Amber Lion has an interesting way of uh talking about certain events and one of the things that she talks about when it comes to uh corporate control of information and like things along the lines of like the Julian Assan situation she talks about being on the WR side of history and I think that's a very good point that there the people that are trying to suppress information in that way and the information that would directly affect the lives and not just but the consciousness of the the entire culture yeah that that's the wrong side of history and when all things are said and done people trying
to act in their best interest currently they don't realize like the [ __ ] Jig Is up man you might be to hang on and keep shreding water for another 3 or 4 years but The Jig Is up yeah it's like the Inquisition was on the wrong side of History you know when it made when it made Galileo say that actually the sun did revolve around the earth even though he knew that the Earth moved it's clear that Galileo was on the right side of History we know that now we've got perspective on it we can look back with hindsight and and it's the same it's the same thing that's happening today in the different ways yeah it really is it's just it's just more it's more intense because it's happening worldwide and it's all happening at the same time and we're seeing positive and negative repercussions of it like these failed states that come about because of Arab Spring like everybody says let's get rid of the dictator and then you know mo Mar Bo kill yeah and now Libya is like this insan world liya is a hell World Syria is a hell World Iraq's a hell World um in every case Pandora's Box has been has been opened and the immediate result has been that things got way worse than than they were before and then you know if we if we're talking about the the dark side the negative side of things as well there is this this horrible problem of um bigoted uh religious fundamentalism which is which um is not confined to the Islamic World by any means I mean there are there are many Christian bigots as as well there's a tendency for people to cling on to old and devalued ideas and and and to have a have an almost religious fanatical commitment to them and be willing I mean what idea is worth killing another fellow human being for because they don't share your idea I mean I mean this is demonic it's a horrendous horrendous situation that this happens I followed a few guys on Twitter that are a part of that whole Islamic State there was a an article about this guy who was a rapper who is suspected a rapper from London suspected of being one of the guys that beheaded one of the American journalists and um I was following his Twitter feed it's just like it's they they banned his Twitter account but it was you know just it was so strange to see what's going on and
also strange to see his there was this thing that was going on with his interaction with the other uh the other people there was this intense camaraderie MH this intense camarad with his other Islamic Warriors you know that they all looked at it there everyone was brothers and sisters and everyone was you know it was all there was great intensity to all of the decisions that were being made and great intensity to the bonds they all had you know fighting against what they thought was the evil United States and unfortunately there was also some things that he said that you know they were talking about how everybody's freaking out that one head got cut off one body part got cut off of this one guy but what about the thousands of people that are blown to bits by these drones that no one's talking about that's undeniable that is undeniable that is uh that that is absolutely true two wrongs never make a right they do not the fact that the fact that that happens does not excuse the the cold-blooded slicing off of fellow human being's head but nevertheless it happens we should not we should not condemn the one without condemning the other as well absolutely and in fact the one you know you're talking about one individual as opposed to thousands of people that have been killed by drones that are innocent completely innocent people who are so-called collateral damage who are just ripped apart by by our high-tech uh weapons you know which which which will behead a person in an in an instant slice body parts off just completely destroy that if you're Lu if you're not lucky they only break off a few things then you suffer for the rest of your life in agonizing pain yeah so we have to own this we have to take the we have to accept that this is this is something we do we in the west Are Not Innocent of this barbarity we Al part of it yeah it's is it we you know that's the real thing well that's the real thing because then you come back to the question of the manipulation of public opinion by very small interest groups who have who have um a very unbalanced uh control of information right and then who what what is what does we mean if it's not you and it's not I do we take responsibility for people we don't even know doing things that are under the orders of people we
also don't know and under the influence of Corporations not really exactly sure who's pulling the strings or how it's getting done or what politicians are moving what piece is into place and the whole thing is [ __ ] we take responsibility for standing by and letting bad [ __ ] happen and not doing anything about it somehow or other to fail to fail to act when when we know that something really wrong is being done in our name that is that is as bad as doing it ourselves have you ever seen the interview there's an interview that's out there of one of the guys that's a uh he was a drone pilot and he was responsible for I don't know a large number of deaths but he would describe what it was like to to be a drone pilot what it's like to you know to to operate these death machines that fly through the sky and just launch rockets and how crazy it was and this this is a new thing that didn't exist decades ago didn't exist during the first Gulf War there was no drones this is I mean this this idea of precision attacks by automated machines that fly around the air and launch Hellfire missiles I mean what a [ __ ] crazy name call them Hellfire Hell Fire yeah yeah and and it becomes like a computer game oh yeah you know you're looking at it on a screen and completely detached completely completely detached from the mass murder that you are in fact inflicting what a dark World dark we live in we live in a dark we live in a dark time and the only you know the only thing is that there is this light which is growing there is there is the capacity for love human beings we are we are capable of love it it involves detaching ourselves from controlling orders and actually thinking as human beings thinking for ourselves very difficult to do but it is it I think it's happening I also think that that conflict the the conflict of battling against the negative builds up the positive in some strange way I mean the the the anti-war movement was really a big part of what made the hippie movement of the 60s like that was a lot of it was in response to the Vietnam War there's this this war that people knew to be unjust and so this flower power love power movement LSD and marijuana and all that came out of that that very resistance to killing people that didn't do anything bad to us produced this very
positive thing but then of course there was a then a counter reaction to that which we call the War on Drugs you know which which slapped down on that and shut it shut it all down again I mean I know you're not big into Supernatural issues but you know I when I look at all of this I have to say the gnostics uh who you know to if I simplify the the idea Gnostic ideas the we know about Gnostic ideas because a batch of texts were found buried at a place called nikad in Upper Egypt near the Temple of dendera in Upper Egypt and they've been buried for 1,600 years and they were found in 1945 and they contain a complete Corpus of uh ideas of a people who call themselves The gnostics and they see a a a dark force at work in the universe which is which is seeking to Snuff out the Divine spark in humanity and it's a supernatural Force and and what they say is that the entity who we've been taught for the last 2,000 plus years to believe is God the ENT the Abra the god of Abraham who may be called Yahweh or who may be called Allah that that from the Gnostic point of view that's not a god at all that's a that's a demon that's a lower level L Supernatural who's got this huge inflated ego who wants to be praised and worshiped who's constantly urging his followers on to acts of violence and and War um and I think it's I I we cannot say there are any facts in this area maybe it's just the dark side of the human psyche and maybe it's all generated by our brains or maybe there is a supernatural realm but I think it's I think it's a I think gnosticism is a very useful uh tool to look at the society we live in today they believe that there were entities called archons who are evil angels who disguise themselves as human beings and mingle with us to drive us into all manner of crimes and and beha behavior that is hostile to the nature of the soul and that's what I see happening everywhere but they believed fundamentally we are good and that we have this light within us and that that the way to reveal that light is through is through knowledge that's why the serpent in the Garden of Eden is the good guy in the Gnostic frame of reference well that's very bizarre the serpent being the good guy he's the good guy because he's saying to Adam and Eve you have to know the
difference between good and evil you can't just be these thoughtless meat creatures you know who are wandering around in a Happy Days in the garden if you're going to grow and develop you have to make choices between good and evil and it's the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil that the serpent introduces Adam and Eve too and says you need to eat from that and if and and and and actually I I I would say this is true you we do need to we are defined by our choices it's through our choices that we grow and if we're ignorant of the context how can we hope to grow yeah and these I mean the stories of like Adam and Eve and the I mean all that stuff it's it's allegorical right I mean it's supposed to be there there's there's an allegory to there's certainly an allegory there C there's certainly an allegory there it's not a real serpent you know it's not a real I don't read it as a real or real Apple I I mean actually for the gnostics it very clearly and definitely it was a adelic mushroom when the gnostics portray the Tree of Life in the G the sorry the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden it is amonita muscaria it's the flyagaric it is it is sometimes it's a syoy it is it is a a Visionary substance which they which they are depicting and that that in a way from the Gnostic point of view is a necessary part of the liberation of the spirit that we that it it's it's an an agent for awakening that's what the serpent was giving now I know that all the Fundamentalist Christians out there are going to say hanok is a devil worshipper because he's saying that the serpent is the good guy but that's what the gnostics said and there was a deep and ancient study of the mystery of life and the Mystery of reality I read somewhere I don't remember the source but I read somewhere where they were talking about the interpretations of ancient languages and the translations from you know ancient Hebrew Aramaic all to Greek Latin that a lot of things got lost along the way in the confusion and that one of the confusions was that that the word Apple could could be interpreted also as red and that it wasn't an apple but that it was a red and that red being the color of the amonita muscaria that that was why absolutely I mean there folks have to understand if they they've never
tried to pay attention to how people translate ancient languages and then try to translate them several times not just into you know from ancient Hebrew to Latin but also from Latin to Greek from to English there's so that get weirded out along the way like if you've ever taken a phrase from like a Russian uh website where you don't know what they're saying and then put it into like Google translate and you see the English version of what they're saying like oh my God it's so convoluted and confusing because of the way the the structure of their language is very different the grammar that they use is very different and that it's nothing in comparison to how different it was in ancient times yeah a lot Get Lost in Translation and and a lot the translator imposes his or her idea of how things should be on the on the material and many of the texts that come down to us are highly edited artifacts which are which are actually representing a particular point of view that's why these hidden Gnostic texts which just lay buried for 1600 years until they were found in the 1940s are you know extremely extremely interesting and and actually we don't need to rely on translations there there were most of the gnostics were wiped out by Christian ity when Christianity pulled on the Jack boot of Rome and became the state religion of the most powerful militaristic Empire of the ancient world uh it set about destroying all competitors and amongst those it destroyed were the gnostics but some and they were burnt at the stake from a very early date but some Gnostic sects survived and they have left us images and there are a number of Gnostic churches these guys saw themselves as Christians there are a number of Gnostic churches where they painted the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil quite specifically as Amanita muscaria yeah and um even in French Fresco what is that Fresco from like uh it was I don't remember the year but uh it was an Adam and Eve portrayal that showed several different types of mushro several different of mushrooms and it's Adam and Eve clearly standing and it makes you wonder like this was in not modern times but not 5,000 years ago no this was like 1200 ad there was like 800 years ago something
something like that we were at the tail end of the the last surviving Gnostic sects the the the cathars in the southwest of France are an example of a of a gnostic uh sect who survived through until the Catholic Church wiped them out with the so-called alian Crusades a truly horrendous Act of ethnic murder that took place in the 1200s so we're actually not that long ago and things have have survived from that time and uh it's very interesting that that they are clearly indicating that the Psychedelic experience is of crucial importance that it's a liberating experience that it allows us to wake up to the true nature of things now of course they would do it right they would do it in a sacred context they would work very hard on the setting to create the place and the space where this experience unfolded because that's part of the experience the substance on its own is only part of the story as anybody who's worked with psychedelics knows right the the context in which the experience unfolds is at least as important and the intent with which you go into it and what we're seeing now again history has been obscured from us but Recent research is showing for example the famous eluc inian mysteries in Greece 2,000 years at the Temple of ucus uh it pilgrims came from all over Greece once a year to undergo an experience and that experience involved drinking a brew we can now say with absolute certainty that that was a brew closely that there were elements in it closely related to LSD uh and that this how do we know that with absolute because the work has been the work has been done by Hoffman by Gordon Wason and others um there's a there's a very detailed study of what was in that Brew it was called the kikon and growing on the barley that was used in the Brew was a was an Urgot a a form of Urgot uh which contained LSD amides and which was soluble in water they've really done the science in great in great depth and when you read the accounts you know of of great figures from the ancient world people like Plato or Socrates who went and had the experience at the linian Mysteries they drink this they enter a darkened series of corridors and passageways and Chambers in this huge in this huge Temple and this this light appears and they start seeing visions
it's pretty obvious what's going on yeah pretty obvious that they were tripping in some way shape or form and they saw it as nurturing they saw it as nurturing they felt there were several of the Ancients who had this experience and who said that after having had this experience they lost their fear of death that they that they understood that it was not that it was not the end now we could argue about that but that was the experience that they that they had yeah that's the experience that a lot of people have when uh they take acid one of the things that Larry Hagman said who is a a popular American actor he did this interview when he was on uh CNN and they were talking to him about death and he said uh that LSD completely took away his fear of death he just didn't it didn't mean what it meant before it just because you realize you're part of something larer you're part of something that's the the the the you know it is important to have a sense of self because it's important to brush your teeth it's important to uh pay attention when you're driving it's important to take care of your health while you're alive or you'll suffer some ill consequences but it's also important to recognize that a lot of your need to take care of yourself can be can overwhelm your greater perspective the greater perspective of being a part of everything yeah and that it's not just about you and the worst cases of of human beings are the the egos run a monck like the dictator like the Saddam Hussein or the the anyone who control it's all them it's all about them and you know huge insane OS and they cut people down and smash you know and Destroy and kill and and and leave horrible horrible lives in the wake of their their ridiculous Detachment from these Universal ideas we are a part of a giant Collective Consciousness and that's uh it's almost impossible to get to that without something whether it's yoga whether it's DMT whether it's something that you ingest that gets you to that understanding that that understanding is very difficult to realize with our normal conditioning the the normal alpha male primate Behavior what I call the alert problem solving State of Consciousness that's that State of Consciousness is not our friend when it comes to understanding our place in
The Wider scheme of things it is our friend in many ways and it's a good State of Consciousness but there are so many other states of Consciousness that are that are of value and that need to be sought out now some people are very lucky and they can they can get into deeply Altered States Of Consciousness and and see reality in a different way uh without needing to take any substance it's it's fine you know or they can get there through meditation or they can get there through floating in a floation tank but but for a lot of people the very powerful vehicle for changing our perspective on the nature of reality has been for thousands of years the Psychedelic experience and it's time that we rehabilitated that and and and gave it a place in our society well I think as you were talking about earlier that this is a time of great change I think this is a time of Great Awakening when it comes to psychedelics I was listening to this guy Simpson I I tweeted it today he this a country music singer who sings about DMT oh really I haven't I mean it's country music like old school whan Jennings style country music if you're into that and I am I like that kind of old music I've been really into that the last couple years I've gotten in I've always been a Johnny Cash fan I've always liked um Dwight Yokum and some country singers but I've gotten into a bunch of other stuff recently but this guy Sturgill Simpson is is like a big part of what he's saying about it's psychedelics yes in a country song I mean incredible stuff and I think that that to me just sort of highlights that this is spreading through a bunch of different genres different art forms you see a lot of psychedelic art now not just Alex Gray who's the master but you see others that are coming along a lot of psychedelic artwork I see it all the time when I go and speak at events at conferences people come to me with their art and I'm seeing I'm seeing this huge explosion of of visionary creativity uh taking taking place and I'm constantly meeting people whose lives have been transformed uh by by these experiences and I think a lot of people are getting informed by guys like you who have written books on these experiences from Supernatural to your own discussions including the one that
got banned from Ted Ted but the the whole Ted thing has kind of been exposed as being this really bizarre almost cultish thing that's done a lot of great good I'm a bigan of a lot of the that have come on Ted but I had Eddie Wong on the show where he talked about his experience in Ted where they kicked him out because he left there to do my podcast they wanted him to be a part of this whole thing all day where you had to hang out he had to stay in a hotel room with someone else like they made him he's like can I get my own hotel room they're no the Ted experience you have to shack up with some [ __ ] random dude who's talking about physics or whatever it is we want everybody to be together it's very cult like yeah like Scientology well it's also become intensely profitable and when things become intensely profitable and they come this giant business that's that's part of why your talk got banned from Ted instead of having an open discourse about agreeing or disagreeing about what you're saying there's nothing wrong with that but your te your talk got banned because of pressure from a bunch of people that were say they start using the word pseudo science pseudo science stop the pseudo science there's almost a Cult of people that are afraid of debating ideas that are very controversial and very difficult to nail down especially when you're talking about the emergence of Consciousness an early man yeah okay no one knows how the [ __ ] people got from hunting things to drawing on Cave walls to experiencing Visionary uh psychedelic States but we do know that happened it happened it happened and it's worth talking about and yeah we're not it's not like 1940 whatever the [ __ ] it was when people figured out iasa whatever year it was what what year it was IA goes back a very long way no but I mean Western World when they when McKenna talked about how uh they they first when they found Haring they wanted to call it um telepathy yeah tep a theme but they realized that it had already been it been scientifically defined as harming yeah so that was like what year was that that would probably be in 1930s somewhere and wson Gordon wson was in like the 50s 50s goes down to Mexico encounters Maria
Sabina has a mushroom experience and that's the beginning of the mushroom story in the west actually so that's like modern Western culture and civilization this is our introduction to it but the [ __ ] had been going on for thousands of years thousands and thousands of years so for us to assume that these you especially you and I who have had these psychedelic experiences I've never had an IAS experience but I've had a dozen DMT trips there's unb to deny that that had an effect on consciousness of emerging people it's ridiculous that's in my opinion very anti-scientific it's extremely anti-scientific it is like the modern Inquisition but it's a weird thing where people are ignoring that aspect and concentrating on all the other potential aspects which I think probably worked in some sort of a symbiotic fashion the uh introduction of meat into the diet the um the the experimenting with different food sources because of the changing of the climate there was a lot of factors that take came into play that made lower hominids human beings a lot of EV evolutionary factors a lot of environmental factors a lot of experimental factors um a lot of things happened where there was some benefits to certain types of behavior and those people survived and then things evolved and changed and then boom we have Graham Hancock here at 2014 sitting in front of his Apple laptop you saying I mean there was a lot of things had to take place a lot it was a it was a very complicated process but it I'm absolutely sure that psychedelics were a key were a key part of it everyone who's taken psychedelics is pretty sure that it was a key part you know why because you've had the experience and everyone who doesn't if you haven't had a psychedelic experience and you're talking about psychedelic experiences being not a factor or non-effective you're crazy yeah you'd be better to shut up well just nonsense because they have people who' have not had the had the experience at all are just they don't even in my view need to come to the table because they've got nothing to bring to the discussion I don't mind if they come to the table but I find their arguments to be almost hilarious it's like I I have a very good friend who's a
very intelligent guy and he's never taken any drugs and his take on it is and he's a brilliant guy I love talking to him but his take on it is simply uh all the work's been done there's no I'm nothing not going to learn anything new from that yeah and I'm like well that's so crazy yeah I'll just say his name pendulette right I love that guy well it was the same he doesn't do any drugs he doesn't do anything right and he feels that there's no need for him to he said it's all been figured out we've all all the work's been done I'm like oh god dude yeah let me get you high on DMT last 15 minutes and you tell me what work's been done see that's that's what's so I think what's so special about DMT in particular is that there is that there is no negotiation with the experience there are very few people who can resist it once you hit the hit thr dose uh and it's going to take you where it where it takes you and then you are confronted by one of the most intense and extraordinary experiences that it is possible for any human being to have yes we can jump out of an airplane at 10,000 ft yes we can scale a sheer Cliff that's also very intense and very very extraordinary yes we can go scuba diving to the depths but if we look at the whole range of human experiences and say what is one of the most intense and potentially most transformative experiences it's possible to have I would say DMT done with the right intention in the right context is right up there with anything else it's the most intense thing I've ever experienced too I mean I've experienced everything obviously I've never been scuba diving i' never been skydiving and it doesn't mean that those things aren't intense as well but to deny the impact of those things it seems silly and the the people that are arguing against the the the the efficacy of these experiences or against the influence of these experiences to have those people actually have never having had taken these experiences arguing against them it seems so silly it's it's crazy it's crazy that they're listen scared of them though but it's those people who are who are running the rules in our society still yeah well if they if they weren't that would be really terrifying if our society was run in the way it is now by a bunch of people doing DMT you'd be like what the
[ __ ] yeah but that that's one thing we can be quite sure if our society was run by a bunch of people doing DMT it wouldn't be run in the way that it's run now it wouldn't well you know McKenna found out about DMT by a friend who was a scientist who worked at the Army research lab and they had like a barrel of the stuff they had a [ __ ] barrel of DMT and if anyone if you've DMT is it's very small doses that are transformative these tiny little doses that you smoke take you into these incredible Realms so the idea of a barrel yes or LSD I mean the McKenna described LSD in the the best way I've ever heard is is that the amount of LSD you need for it to be effective is like an ant that can break down the Empire State Building in 30 minutes like it's literally that little he was a great genius and it's um it's very fortunate again we have the internet and the Terrence McKenna is is has passed in the year 2000 he's still he's still with us and his and he is having this liberating effect on on people all around the world and he had the gift he had the gift of language he he spoke in a such a compelling way I love listening to Terence M and Bill Hicks you know the two the two of them together just amazing and Hicks was a huge fan of McKenna and became I found out about McKenna because of hicks because there was a joke where um Hicks said uh something about leaving mushrooms under the um under the table of all these people like take it and he said at what Terence McKenna would describe as a heroic dose and I remember saying who the [ __ ] is Terence McKenna and so then I I don't it wasn't even a Google back then I searched Terrence McKenna because of hearing about it on Bill Hicks right and uh then I got a hold of some of the um the uh audio recordings and then you listen to the guy's voice it's like wow what a weird guy what a weird interesting compelling way of communicating Incredible use of language uh which just makes you think all the all the time that's that's the service he's providing for all of us still yeah I mean he missed a mark on that December 21st 2012 thing but everybody did sure he did everybody's going to miss the mark well he was also a guy who used to get high a lot and come up with cool theories and things to think about and
when you're postulating and thinking about the future here's the thing about thinking about the future no one's ever got it right no no one's ever figured out the future there's not a single [ __ ] person has ever sat down for anybody to get it right nobody got it right the future is the future is uh indeterminate yeah it's interesting I mean talking about psychedelics the what's happening with cannabis in the United States right now is is very is very interesting to me coming from coming from Britain where you know nobody is ever even willing to contemplate the legalization or the derestriction of cannabis but in America state by state people are voting with their feet and the barriers are being are being broken down I mean America has been the huge dark force behind the War on Drugs all over the world for the last 40 or 50 years so many countries around the world have just blindly followed the American lead that's the American government that's the American power structure but the American people are saying no the American people are saying actually we want to smoke cannabis and we find it positive and nurturing for us and state by state either it's being decriminalized or medical marijuana is available or it's actually being legalized in a number of cases this is a big change again there's all kind of conspiracy theories like how Monsanto is going to take it over and so on and so forth but I see it as a really good thing that these barriers in the heartland of the war of drugs are being broken down by the American people themselves and I say kudos to the American people for getting on and making that happen because it's going to be a benefit to the whole world yeah Warren Buffett is starting to get into the marijuana trade oh yeah that's when things going to get freaky cuz when you got a guy who's worth 90 billion or whatever the hell he's worth that's when things are going to get very interesting well sure I mean people are going to people are going to make commercial advantage of this but but at the end of the day I come back to this is something that I've said again and again as the years have gone have gone by for me the fundamental issue is the right of the adult to make Sovereign decisions about their own Consciousness and one of those
Sovereign decisions has to be the right to use cannabis or not to use it but one must be free to make that decision and not and not controlled by society and once that is recognized once all the scare stories about cannabis go away and we find that in fact state by state it uh it's a positive rather than a harmful thing I think that the question marks are going to begin to arise over the psychedelics too and and we're going to we're going to see all those barriers breaking down in the years to come yeah I think you're right I think the bringing up Warren Buffett and Warren Buffett's company specifically uh what's happening is he's a part of uh this company he just a subsidiary subsidiary subsidiary of uh birkshire Hathaway um has this company called called cubic designs and um they they sell uh they maximize usable floor space in warehouses they sent a th Flyers to weed dispensaries in recent weeks and these flyers they show these medical marijuana growups and it's like double your usable growing space this is [ __ ] like this is intense stuff because it's companies that are real estate holders that have you know giant amounts of U of of money invested in this that are saying you know what we're going to dip our feet into this this growing marijuana industry I have a friend who works at a dispensary in Colorado and the dispensary is five acres indoor wow five acres that's great five acres that's an enormous building and it's all pot it's just millions of dollars in marijuana and there's people that are there this has only been less than a year I mean it was made legal last January and here we are we're talking right now it is September of 2014 right this is a crazy thing I just did my comedy special in Denver and I hadn't been to Denver in a while the place has changed man it's like marijuana is a huge part of the culture now people are moving there's marijuana tourism people are moving there for marijuana they're moving there to be a part of the marijuana business because you can get really [ __ ] Rich right now because there's a lot of people that are not sure what's going to happen federally cuz it's still illegal ferally so not sure whether or not they want to dive into it yet but the people that are bold that are diving are willing to take
a risk they're making insane profits got a chance of making a great Fortune from it and the the government is making a lot of money too 39% of the profits go to taxes wow so every marijuana joint that's gets sold 30 if it's it's sold for a dollar 39 no one's selling it for a dollar but if it's sold for $100 $39 is going to the government so they're making over $100 million this year in taxes just Colorado yeah state government and so they're looking at this so far the federal government is not reaping the revenues because it's no cuz it's illegal it's illegal but they're finally allowing the people to put their money in Banks yes which was uh for a long time they had to do this weird [ __ ] where they had to like put it in safe deposit boxes or they had to buy take the cash and then use it to buy Bank notes and like buy you know bank checks it's very strange they weren't allowing them to use credit cards or any of the normal ways that people do business that keep them from being robbed at gunpoint by criminals you know untrackable bills so they had these kids that were driving around with stacks of cash is really dangerous and scary very dangerous and scary but it's very it's very good that that that all of this is is changing I can only see it as a good thing I don't see any I don't see any downside in it it's a really it's a really positive development that's taking that's taking place I agree and I think it's also a part of this whole movement that you and I were talking about where the world is just changing information is out there people are just not prepared to put up with that [ __ ] [ __ ] any longer they're not prepared to put up with it to be told what to think to be told what to do with their own with their own Consciousness and and it's great that that it's Americans who are leading the way in this and the and and and the rest of the world is is watching and all the lies we've been told about cannabis they're going to just drift away and be wrecked and destroyed Forever by what's happening in America so it's a great service that's being that's being done to the world as you know I had my own long-term relationship with cannabis I smoked cannabis for 24 years I overindulged I undoubtedly abused my relationship with cannabis I don't blame the cannabis for
that it was me I was I I I was just crazy I was crazy crazy I mean it's very crazy to to smoke it from 9 in the morning until 2:00 the next morning 7 days a week or rather vaporize it as I as I did and and I reached a point thanks to a series of iasa Journeys in October 2011 where I made the decision that I wouldn't smoke cannabis now three years have come since then but I want to live in a society where I and fellow adults are free to choose either to use cannabis or not to use it without any state agent sticking their nose in our private business this is this is our private business what we do with our own Consciousness yeah and and it's incredibly encouraging to see that the Americans are taking that power back and showing the rest of the world how to do it and also um anti-pot doctors are being exposed it's really fascinating all these doctors that are paid off by pharmaceutical companies there was an article recently about anti-pot doctors being paid off and all of the leading pot like anti-pot doctors all of them are taking big farmers money oh yeah all of them why am I not surprised well what it's interesting that guys like sanj Gupta who used to do that who used to be on board with that now has stepped up come out in a hug and he's to add psychedelics stting to address's going with cocin the new stud that's shown these people that took cocin and quit smoking 6 months later 80% of them some some large number 70 or 80% quit smoking and didn't go back to it because of just the the the clarity of th those Visions where you kind of understand like what am I doing oh I see you really get that perspective on your on yourself here and that's that's the that's the big news you know that these that these things are positive and beneficial and the way forward for society is to create a positive social environment and positive spaces in which in which we can explore these experiences and the result for society as a whole will be very positive in I'm convinced of that yeah vice.com is the the guys who broke the story uh it's it's it's incredible and it's all these different doctors uh that have been like here's one Dr Herbert Keebler of uh clber kber of Columbia University he's been um impeccable academic credentials has been quoted in the press
and academic Publications warning against the use of marijuana which he stresses may cause wide ranging addiction that's my favorite wide ranging addiction and public health issues when he's writing his anti-pot opinion pieces for CB CBS News are being quoted by NBR and CNBC what's left unsaid is that clever has served as a paid consultant to Leading prescription drug companies including Purdue Pharma the maker of oxyon reckit Ben Biser the producer of painkiller called neurofen mhm and aler Ales the producer of a powerful new opiod called z y d how do you say that zoh Hydro Zohydro I guess he's a [ __ ] that's what this guy professional's a [ __ ] and what you say is what what what what what he's what he's been hiding and and and covering up is that all this stuff he's pushing that's the real addicted drugs 16,000 deaths a year it's a multi- billion dollar business it causes 16 deaths a year just in this this country 16,000 death 16,000 deaths a year stunning and and uh doctors are on the take to keep promoting that and to stop us exercising our free choice as adults to manage our pain in other ways for example with cannabis and even if it did it was just 16 deaths obviously 16,000 if it was 16 deaths that's 16 more than cannabis cannabis is causing zero cannabis doesn't kill anybody that's what most ridiculous thing ever like you could die from aspirin a lot of people die every year from aspirin a lot of people die every year from Salt they eat too much salt and they die absolutely now we have a painkiller I think you call it acet acetaminophen here in America we call it paracetamol in in England it really [ __ ] your liver you know it's really really dangerous dangerous thing and and and once it reaches a certain level there's no recovery from it and it kills thousands and thousands of people a year well I was reading this thing about bodybuilder or watching a video rather about bodybuilding and this guy was U being interviewed who used to be this uh big competitive bodybuilder and they talking about all the drugs that you have to take to get so big but one of the things he was talking about was that what really kills these guys is not the uh steroids it's painkillers right they all
get hooked on painkillers because they're in pain all the time cuz they're lifting all this crazy weight and they're [ __ ] up their body while they're doing it and they take a seat of minin all these different Valiums perets and that stuff destroys their kidneys destroys their liver kidneys yeah it's it's and and the withdrawal symptom from stopping taking the painkiller is huge amount of pain so you then go and take more more painkillers these are highly highly addictive highly highly dangerous drugs yeah and state sanctioned govern totally State sanctioned totally totally State sanction so I'm wondering now 3 years after I gave up cannabis whether you know the dip my toes back in the water in a in a respectful way um not not do it every day have some sacred moments I value the sensual side of it I don't know I'm I'm I'm the next time I have an Iowaska session I'm going to I'm going to ask uh iasa that's going to be my intent because it was iasa that really interrupted my cannabis habit I'm going to ask is there a way I can do this I don't know maybe that's weak of me I I wonder this you know I was talking with a friended last night and he said there's a true addict speaking you know when I said this cuz it sounds a bit it sounds a bit like that but I I did value cannabis it was it was an extraordinary positive thing for me in in many many ways and I I what I feel is that I got out of balance with it and if I could if I could find that balance again and and use it rarely at special times then I think it would be okay but I'm I'm I'm I'm a little afraid to go back there well you should be afraid right you know because you've had personal experience with addiction and I think that addiction is purely mental it's purely Al because it was very easy to stop once aaska gave me the message and I really got that I I had a severe kicking first of all a DMT trip then immediately afterwards five iasa sessions I was I was psychologically beaten up and the message of that beating was you have to stop smoking Canabis and and uh and and I did and looking back on it it's absurd this is a very very powerful uh plant agent and here I am you know vaporizing it 16 hours a day seven days a week you went deep I went
deep I went I went I went I went very deep and and and but and it got to the point where I actually wasn't enjoying it anymore where I just felt that I couldn't live my life without it and but I discovered I easily could live my life without it when I stopped it wasn't a huge chore or problem to stop it wasn't actually difficult and in that sense I definitely was not physically addicted to it right yeah that that's the thing is that I think there's some people that do get phys Ally addicted I'm not you know I used to say marijuana is not addictive and I don't think it is with most people but I think biological diversity like biodiversity in human beings is is such that like there's certain folks that have weird reactions to all kinds of different things cats some people around cats think my friend Gary he can't even come over my house cuz I have two cats if he walks in the door he would start going he start weezing he can't breathe like he has to get out of there like you kill him of cats but then I got my friend Joey Diaz who has what is he 11 I think he has 11 cats [ __ ] has 11 cats house is a zoo but if you if my friend Gary went over my friend Joey's house he would he would die but Joey's having a party over there he's got cats on his lap he's petting them just're sitting on his shoulders yeah so mess we're all we're all different and and what works for one person doesn't doesn't work for another and that's and that's again why why this issue of adult sovereignty of us having the right to make our choice is about our own bodies is fundamental and and actually with the psychedelics and the Cannabis issue that's just the tip of the iceberg of the whole issue of health and personal health and and and how our society is working to take away our choices over our personal health and to turn us into robots who consume the products that are pumped at us by the big pharmaceutical companies or who inv inventing every year this Unholy alliance with psychiatrists inventing every year new mental conditions for which new pills will be will be dosed out you yeah in England you guys don't have those commercials either those commercials are so [ __ ] Insidious ask your doctor about this drug that might cause you to [ __ ] yourself all day long and commit suicide commit suicide the
weirdest thing that's the big untold story about anti-depressants many anti-depressants cause people to kill themselves and how about anti-depressants that supplement the anti-depressant anti-depressants like there's there's a certain anti I forget what it was called that had insane side effects that they were promoting as a supplement to your regular anti-depressant if your regular anti-depressant isn't doing it mix it up with this one but this one could cause [ __ ] kidney failure your dick might fly across the room like a mocking bird anything anything could happen to you but you might not be depressed or you might I mean [ __ ] it just take our pills these are the biggest drug dealers these are the true Mafia of drugs well it's also the idea of commercials commercials are infuential and the influence of commercials is is very Insidious because there's one thing if a commercial is influencing you to buy a particular vacuum cleaner that doesn't bother me man this is the best hey look if you're if you're too much of a knucklehead to go on consumer reports or you know to read reviews online by independent people that tell you this vacuum C cleaner is great this vacuum cleaner sucks if you're too much of a knucklehead to do that I don't feel bad for you exactly but when it comes to Consciousness when it comes to pills especially when it comes the happiness man because that's the big one anti-depressants they should be call them happy pills you know I wrote an article long time ago from my blog about happy pills I called it happy pills right and it was about this uh this this uh this girl who was taking these uh these anti-depressants and I think that the the selling of happiness in pill form is the ultimate ridiculous American notion it's horrible it's it's horrible uh it's it's it's suggesting that the answer does not Li within that that it can be bought right that happiness can be bought but I think the ultimate illusion also what's Insidious about it is selling it on television like that does a huge disservice to the actual people that could use anti-depressants because they have a real mental imbalance there's people that do do that so like you're selling it as an antidote for a [ __ ] life where there's other
folks that might have a real issue they have an imbalance a huge chemical imbalance in the brain and and and that can be adjusted adjusted and make their life wonderful people that have a miserable life they can make their life wonderful but instead we're people will trivialize it because you see a commercial where a chick's running around a field of Wheat and spinning around with her baby and then someone says I want to live like that and then they call her [ __ ] doctor next thing you know you're on a pill that you didn't need if you just start eating vegetables and going jogging every day you you'd be a way happier person than you were on that pill and again let me let me say right outright that the psychedelics are very effective anti-press youyin been trial tested in in human communities for thousands and thousands of years iasa in the Amazon at least 4,000 years of use and anybody who's worked with syoc cybin or iasa enough will know that that they do help with mood they do they do help you take a more positive outlook on outlook on life and and whether that's to do with altering the chemical balance in the brain because they they do work on the serotonin system in the brain chemically or whether it's to do with the Revelation that one has that you know life is an Incredible Gift and an incredible joy and a privilege to be to be alive this is the this is what we forget immersed in the cares and woes of daily life constantly struggling to to meet the next the to pay the next Bills to to get on in in work relentlessly driven to to produce and consume and we forget that it's a magical Enchanted gorgeous glorious universe that we live in and we have this amazing bodies and we should just celebrate every minute of it psychedelics help with that too yeah it's hard it's hard to keep a balanced perspective but it's I think it's also important to realize that perspective shifting Consciousness shifting experiences can also change the way you look at the world and when you change the way you look at the world it can adjust the way your brain functions and that it's not an either or situation it's a combinatory situation it's like they might affect your brain in a very chemical way but also just altering of a
perspective could enhance your mood and it could enhance the way your body and brain function yeah because the the mind is what we are we are our minds the mind is the most powerful the most powerful thing and that's where all healing I believe resides it resides it resides in the mind if you can kick in the body's ability to heal itself through right mental attitude no no medicine will do that for you and that's why placebos actually work you know that's why they work better than than the prescription drugs that they're been T most the time they don't work better than prescription drugs but occasionally they do work just the fact that they work at all the placeo effect is not nearly as effective as medicine right in most cases but just the fact that it does work at all that there's a way that you can tell your body to make itself better and the way is by tricking it to thinking it's taking medicine look you're going to be better I'm going to be better the alleviation of stress and anticipation of this horrible you know demise that you're this impending doom that you can't escape with a sugar pill that's incredible it's incredible it says something about the mind and it's something you know really worth looking at and think further that that is enhanced in psychedelic experiences that the perspective enhancing aspects of that I do believe can change your overall health or change your overall Consciousness which can change your overall health yeah there's a lot going on man and I think these conversations are super important for people that are uninitiated and that haven't they don't understand what the the what's the hoopla about why is every God damn it that Rogan's going on about drugs again I know I I I have I have a constituency of my readers and and uh people people who follow me on Facebook who you know constantly throwing that you know Hancock's are a drugie and all of this at me and and I I just feel this is a really important it's a really important conversation to have and fundamentally get right down to to the bottom of what it's about it's about this whole issue of us taking back power over ourselves yeah that's what it's really about and and it needs to be seen in that in that context to make decisions about our own lives right or wrong and to learn from
our mistakes and to grow and develop as a result I think it's also super important that you discussed your relationship with cannabis in a an abusive way too that like there's a balance to be achieved there's a balance to be achieved for all of us in sort of a strange way that's what that's what I've that's what I've learned in a way I I had to deny myself this wonderful sensual plant uh which helped me to enjoy food and music and many other sensual Pleasures so sex absolutely people You' never had sex on pot you don't even know what you're talking about you don't even know what Le zeppin sounds like exactly it's a it's a beautiful sensual Ally and and I've had to deny myself that sensual Ally for the last three years because I abused it because I you want to spark up a joint right now well you want to you want to dive in right now of course Joe you're like you're like the serpent in the garden Le sure you want yes you sure why not I don't want to force you in anything you're not you're not forcing me it's an interesting exper no no no no no no I'm going to go I'm going to go live on Joe Rogan is that bad no that's not bad no it's not B that's the way to do it if you want to dive in we'll go a little baby hit little baby hit little babyit be my first baby hit in three years yeah nothing crazy nobody has to get hurt here okay um you were showing some uh images from uh Lebanon to us before the podcast what have you gotten into well now by the time I smoke this little baby hit I'll I'll probably have forgotten but um so what I was getting into was um this this fell here that's some American [ __ ] too that's not that crap you get in England that's made by American scientists and botanists they all drive muscle cars and they do steroids oh that's so familiar that's such a nice feeling um that's that's he back are we seeing that on the screen that is um you're going in for another baby hit look at you Jesus Christ just a little more just a little just a tiny you're good that's it stop right there want you to get confused on the way back we will see so here it is Lebanon this is the um this is what is called the stone of the pregnant woman whoa at Balck that's you on top of that
and that is me on top of that can we see this is a PowerPoint demonstration so can we see but this this little this little tin dot this little tiny dot up here on top of that that's me in Lebanon and is this a recent in July yes I was there in I was there in July people say that Lebanon is very dangerous and this place is right on the Syrian border but I didn't see any danger there at all I had a I had a magical experience at Lebanon it was great it was exciting it was Jo well for you it must be incredible because that's a sight of so many ancient huge monolithic structures that are unexplained as far as their construction methods or so the Temple of Jupiter at bbec in Temple Of Jupiter this is what they call it it's a ro there's undoubtedly a Roman Temple there okay and that Roman Temple dates from the known historical period some two 300 years after Christ it's the Roman Temple of Jupiter and it's very extraordinary but it stands on these huge foundations there's a a group of stones called three stones called the trilithon which are um each weighing 840 tons 840 tons what the [ __ ] and they are lifted to 20 feet above the ground and built into a wall I've sat on top of one of those stones I've been down underneath it and looked up at it to 840 ton Stones this is this is a gigantic achievement now the Orthodox view is that the Romans did everything that they they built those foundations and they built the temple I think and many researchers who've studied them in this field agree with me on this that actually the Romans found a much more ancient site and they which was just extraordinarily megalithic gigantic stones and they built their temple on top of it and later historians have simply given the whole thing to the Romans without considering uh what was what was going on there and part of the reason I think that is because of these stones that are still in the Quarry which I was trying to I don't know if it showed up on the screen I was trying I got it you got it I'm trying to show you know I'm trying to show it just now these Stones stood in the Quarry okay now so what the historians say is that the Romans okay they found they could move the 840 ton Stones that's 1, 680,000 for people who don't like the the word ton You' got your calculator
going there yeah I had to because it didn't make sense I was trying to double it but it's not double like it's 2 lb like two 2,000 lb number whatever it is it's just fearsome number it's extra 2,000 lb for every ton so I was going 8 2,000 for reach what 840 time 2,000 Is that real and then that that's what it is that's what it is so here's the thing those are the 840 ton blocks in the walls in the foundation of the temple then we go to the Quarry and we find this humongous thing which weighs over 1,000 tons and there's another one on the other side of the road which weighs 1,200 tons 1,200 1,200 2,400,000 yeah what the [ __ ] so here's the theory okay the Romans the Romans found they could move the 840 ton blocks and they did this is the Orthodox Theory and then they built their temple on top of it but they found they couldn't move these thousand or 1,200 plus ton blocks and by the way this one is completely separated from the Bedrock out of which it's been caught they couldn't move them so they left them in the Quarry I think that actually proves that the Romans didn't create the 840 ton megalith because if the Romans had known that these gigantic blocks in the if they had cut the blocks okay if they had cut them themselves which we must say they did if we are saying that the Romans were responsible for these megalist if the Romans had cut these blocks themselves they knew they were there and the very first thing they would have used for the smaller blocks that they put into place in the temple of Jupiter was these large blocks they would have sliced them up like a loaf of bread into smaller blocks and moved those over to the temples the fact that these huge megaliths still stand in the Quarry suggest to me that they were buried when the Romans came to that site because otherwise it would have been the very first thing they would have used for quarrying smaller blocks that they were buried and that the Romans found an existing prehistoric megalithic platform and on top of it they built their Temple of Jupiter that's fascinating Theory um it's it seems like open to interpretation to me sure uh especially yeah because you're looking at but either you know regard this of why they built the one what is it 1 million Jesus
Christ 2,400,000 it's freaky when you do it in pounds that's insane yeah when you do it in tons it's it's abstract 1,200 tons okay what's that mean you know it's hard for my head well well let's consider let's consider an average vehicle which might weigh let's let's push this so it's about 2 tons right is that is that about the weight of an average vehicle so 2 tons divide 1,000 by that so you're looking at 500 family-sized cars in 1,000 T block and 1,000 tons oh my God it's just imagining a 2 million pound rock and a bunch of dudes are moving it and we know that someone at some time in history they built that they moved those stones I mean it wasn't that one right it wasn't it was what was the first calculation that we had what did we say it was 640 tons no the eight there's three blocks of 840 tons each joined so closely that you can't slip a sheet of paper between them I mean they've not been just roughly levered into place they've been set down with perfect with perfect Precision so I so someone did that we know that someone did that and there are plenty of people arguing that the Romans did it I feel along along with other researchers who've approached this subject I feel I want to look at alternative possibilities for for what these megal lists are all about and that's and that's one of the things I've been doing for the last year is traveling around the world looking I feel so lucky to have the opportunity to do this looking at just amazing uh amazing archaeological sites god um and one of the countries that that I visited and I want to to Really mention this is Armenia um where I have seen incredible Stone circles just wonderful dwarf Stonehenge make make us just stand in awe and look at the way that these huge megalithic stones in the what is called The karun Stone Circle they have certain holes drilled in them to align up with particular areas of the sky and an Armenian archo astronomer uh from that kind of data believes that the place called karun is not just two or 3,000 years old as most historians believe but well over 12,000 years old why did you believe that because of the astronomical alignments that the positions of the stars in the sky change very slowly down the ages that the
alignment to the solstices changes because there's a slow nod on the axis of the earth very very slow over tens of thousands of years which means that if the sun rises at a a certain point on the horizon on the summer solstice today in two or three or 5,000 years time that point on the horizon will have changed you wouldn't notice it in a lifetime you wouldn't notice it in 10 lifetimes but if you stay long enough you'll note that actually the sun isn't rising in the same place on the horizon anymore when did we confirm that's called the procession of the equinoxes right well actually no that's a second that's a second matter that's the changing tilt of the Earth's axis oh which which kind a wobble nods back there's a wobble and there's a tilt and then there's actually a tilt within the Tilt no where yeah this is the this is the view but it the effect is because the Earth is the viewing platform from which we observe the stars and which we observe the other celestial bodies such as the Moon and the Sun the Earth is our viewing platform if you change the orientation in space of that viewing platform then the rising points of stars the moon the Sun change and the positions of the stars in the sky change wow and it becomes a of language once you understand this that it is universally available to us the calculations can be done we can do it anybody can buy computer software today which will show you the ancient Skies over any point on the Earth's surface at any time in the last 30,000 years that's amazing yeah these and and and what's involved in those computer simulations is simply calculations that had been done in previous Centuries by by astronomers and we understand these these processes we can measure them and set them up but there you have a regularity a changing patterns in the sky if you tie that into architecture on the ground then actually you have a way free of all language of dating of actually speaking you can use this universal language of the stars and architecture to make a statement of the future you can say that this particular time was very important to me to our culture it mattered to us it mattered to us so much that we've created this huge Monument to freeze the Skies over a particular point at wonder why those
particular constellations if at all were important to them that's where things get really strange and if I wanted to play Devil's Advocate I would say well these holes they're pointing up towards the sky there's a lot of [ __ ] stars up there like how do we know like just because they line up with this 12,000 years ago it doesn't mean they weren't looking very it's very complicated so what you want is multiple locks I mean take the uh Pyramids of Giza right um and here I cite the the work of my close friend and and colleague Robert Bal um in particular in his book The Orion mystery you you take the three Great Pyramids of Giza and you look at the heavens overhead and you also look at the religious system of the ancient Egyptians what was important to them what did they what did they believe you pretty soon discover that stars were incredibly important to them Stars cover the inside of the ceilings of of all tombs all the pharaoh's tombs for for example uh monuments are lined up to particular places on the horizon where a star perhaps it's Sirius whose counterpart amongst the gods was the Goddess Isis perhaps it's Orion whose counterpart amongst the gods was the god Osiris uh this is the thing you have a mythology that speaks of entities who have who are clearly stated to be connected to particular asterisms particular particular constellations that's the first thing are the constellations that are being said to have a reflection upon the ground in architecture were they significant to the culture concerned well yes uh absolutely the constellation of Orion was of enormous significance to the ancient Egyptians therefore it has to be a matter of interest that the three pyramids on the ground are laid out in a pattern that is temptingly similar to the pattern of the three belt stars of the constellation of Orion that's fascinating temptingly similar but there's something else then you have shafts which run through the body of the Great Pyramid you have there's a place called The King's chamber high up in the Great Pyramid it has a shaft in its North and South Wall which are about 8 in high and 8 in wide and those shafts cut all the way through the body of the pyramid and they come out on the south and north sides of the pyramid you can
actually and it's been done in the past you can drop a cannonball in at the outside entrance to those shafts and they and that Cannonball moments later will appear in the king's chamber the shafts are about 200 ft long okay in the Queen's chamber down below there are also two shafts uh these shafts do not exit on the outside of the pyramid which creates a mystery uh of its own of great interest what is at the other end of those shafts but they do have very definite alignments and what Robert was really the first to show some archo astronomers were were onto this as well in the case of some of the stars but what Robert was really the first to show is that in 2500 BC the epoch in which egyptologists say the pyramids were built all of those four shafts that shoot up out of the king's chamber and the Queen's chamber all targeted very significant stars in the sky at that time like for example the southern shaft of the Queen's chamber targeted the starus at exactly the moment that the star crosses the Meridian that's the north south line that divides the sky above our heads at exactly the moment that the star crosses that line the shaft targets it and and you could you could fire a laser beam up and you'd hit that you in theory you'd hit that star the alignment is that great so they're locking the pyramid in in the epoch of 20500 BC to four significant stars in the sky another one of those stars is the lowest star of the belt of Orion that tells us that this is a dating mechanism of some kind and it it can't be an accident that that's the case and once you understand procession you understand that these alignments will change so it therefore becomes very interesting to discover that the orientation of the pyramids on the ground is the which Robert argues are the terrestrial reflection of the three stars of the belt of Orion that the orientation of the pyramids on the ground because of procession shifts very slow slowly down the ages and if you and you can see this clearly on any good uh Sky Map program as you go back in time you find that the constellation of Orion at the moment it crosses the Meridian the same place that was targeting the star Sirus at the moment it crosses the Meridian that the perfect alignment between the belt stars of Orion and the
three Great Pyramids of Giza is not in 2,500 BC but in 10,500 BC 8,000 years earlier so we have a very interesting problem here either it's all coincidence or the pyramids are monuments that speak both to the age of the ancient Egyptians 2,500 BC and to a much earlier time wasn't it also the same time where the Sphinx was pointing towards the constellation Leo well that's the again the third part of the lock and Robert and I looked at this in depth together in our book called the message of the Sphinx and so we have the Giza Plateau we have the three pyramids laid out on the ground in the pattern of the belt of Orion in 10,500 BC that's looking South now let's look East let's look J east east of course is where the sun rises but people who don't observe the sun don't realize that the sun tracks back and forth along the horizon during the solar year reaches its most northernmost point on the summer solstice 21st of June and its southernmost point on the winter solstice uh 20 21st of of December um on the Equinox the day that night and day are of equal length the sun rises directly perfectly due east that's actually how you define an equinox because the sun is rising perfectly du East and looking at it is the Sphinx aligned gazing directly perfectly at the point of Sunrise now we have to consider what's behind the sun then what is the constellation of the zodiac that the sun is rising in because that's the what the zodiac is it's a it's a group of constellations that by Chance the P the sun passes through during the course of the year but that the constellation that the sun rises again the background of is also affected by procession the wobble on the axis of the earth and that changes you have roughly 2,160 years in each house of the zodiac for the last 2,160 years we've been in Pisces and as I often say it's not an accident that the the early Christians used the fish as their symbol before that it was the constellation of Aries the ram Rams were incredibly important in the year from 2000 down to the time of Christ just look at the biblical stories anyway to cut a long story short the Great Sphinx is a lion admittedly with a human head but that head is rather small and we think that the head
almost certainly was recarved in a later time probably the whole statue was originally a lion crouching there on a on the horizon gazing due east at the Rising Sun on the equinox and at the constellation behind the Sun and that constellation is in 10,500 BC the constellation of Leo As Above So Below Leo speaking to the Sphinx Orion speaking to the pyramids locking in to a date that is far before any civilization began and I I know I'm on a long wrap here a but just at that at at at at that point when the egyptologists say well it's impossible for there to be any thing like a civilization at Giza 12 and a half thousand years ago just when they're very happy saying that and they're telling us that no other Monument can be found anywhere in the world which is 12 and a half thousand years old on this scale lo and behold up Pops gockley Tey right in Turkey gocke in the area of turkey that by the way was once historic Armenia golee pops up it's dated by the German archaeological Institute they discover that this huge complex of stone circles has been deliberately buried 10,000 years ago and the carbon dating because you can't date Stones you have to date organic materials the carbon dating of organic materials found with those Stone circles puts their age back to 12,000 years and more for you that must have been like Christmas it was like Christmas it was like Christmas it was like it was like a gift I I you know I don't I don't want to um there I have to confess I mean we all have egos you know I have to confess that that it was a nice moment for me when the new scientist magazine in Britain which years ago back in the '90s when I published Fingerprints of the Gods was amongst the magazines that attacked my work as quote unquote pseudo scientific and all of I don't know how my work can be pseudo scientific because I don't claim to be a sci scientist I'm a [ __ ] journalist you know I'm not I'm not a scientist how can I be a pseudo scientist but you're just a guy who's gotten obsessed with an idea kind of and and little weed like in obession yeah so anyway New Scientist magazine um back in the 1990s was saying that I was wrong but the basic message of Fingerprints of the Gods is history is much older and much more mysterious than we've been told so
it was great in October 2013 when New Scientist magazine came out with a headline saying history is much older and more mysterious than we thought it's funny hanock was right that's what the title should have been in my next life we sorry dude in my next life we were [ __ ] with you but there was there was gockley and and that's that's what changes everything yeah really and by the way I'll just say I guess we may be running out of time but I'll just say are we good I just say also Indonesia which is the the other place that my wife stha and I have done a lot of research in the last six or seven months um has been found what was thought to be a 2,500 year old site on top of a hill um a site made of blocks of columnar bassal which forms naturally but which can be used as a construction medium okay it's called gunung Padang and on the top of a hill in a series of terraces is a rather extraordinary Monument thought to be about 2,500 years old made of these blocks of columnar bassal um no really thorough research was ever done by archaist little bit of trenching down to about half a half a meter in depth was done and some carbon was brought up and dated but really the site it was just kind of taken for granted that it was 2 and a half thousand years old Along Comes Danny nataja who is a Caltech trained PhD geologist uh working out of the city of bandong in a a government agency of the Indonesian government in fact he particularly focuses on earthquakes earthquakes are his thing um he comes along and he's intrigued by gunong Padang first of all there's old traditions about it being a sacred Place go back it seemed to go back a very very very long way and he starts to look at it as a geologist and what he realizes suddenly it comes to him he's not looking at a natural hill he's looking at a pyramid on top of which is this relatively recent Monument but somebody built a pyramid there so he begins work on this so it's covered in dirt it's it looks like but it's a inside it's a it's a man-made structure that was Danny's intuition but then he had to prove it so he put together a team and they did um a huge amount of remote sensing work and some CAD drilling down to depths of about 15 M into the top of the hill um and what they what they discovered was
incredibly tempting it it supports Danny's intuition that we are looking at a man-made pyramid here it has produces dates that go back as much as 26,000 years right into the last ice age and the remote sensing equipment shows rather regular cavities inside the monument which look like Chambers of some kind well naturally Danny and his team were stopped working for quite a long while by the archaeological establishment in Indonesia who said we know that this structure is 2 and a half thousand years old and there's no need for any further research on it and it just disturbs the local Villages and and uh you know go away and so they lobbied and they had him stopped uh but Danny took it to the highest level he got the support of the Indonesian government and two and a half weeks ago they started work Excavating thoroughly Excavating g p wow and so far the result very interesting see a building 26,000 years old 26,000 years old and again you know we can't I can't summon up a map magically but if I were to do so consider Indonesia which is a long string of islands um today but if you go back 12 and a half thousand years ago that long St of string of islands is joined to a gigantic Mainland a huge you know ice AG continent because sea level is hundreds of feet lower and therefore Indonesia becomes actually a plausible place for some sort of Hall of Records some sort of Time Capsule because gobec Lee is also a Time Capsule that's so absolutely incredible I can't say fascinating anymore because people starting giving me [ __ ] about it last few podcasts I see I I don't know when things are fascinating I can't come up with any it's you know me it's my way of going whoa there's interesting stuff happening happening in the world I've been I've been lucky to spend sometime exploring this I am writing a sequel to my best known book undoubtedly is Fingerprints of the Gods um the evidence for Earth LW civilization and what year was that 1995 1995 and now you know after being scorned and and put down by the archaeological establishment there is enough new evidence out there for me to produce a whole other book there's there's a whole other story to tell not an update of Fingerprints of the Gods but but a new book which looks at all of this information how about what's going
on in Stonehenge this most recent monents they discovered much bigger than the rest of ston than the rest of Stonehenge that's the thing you see the why just need to be a little more humble because the next turn of the Spade can change everything completely alter the story and we should always remain uh remain open to yeah just a one Discovery like that one farmer finding this Stone in gocke une Earth this incredible structure that rewrites history turn the SP that piece of stone is seen by American archaeologists in the 1950s really and they igned it decide not to look at it because it's so finely done that they think it belongs to the ottoman period within the last four or 500 years oh actually it turns out to be 12,000 years old it's good that they didn't [ __ ] with it they probably would yeah well it you know it's it's cool that it happens this way got the German archaeological Institute later unfortunately they've stuck a hideous roof over the top of gockley tee now they have oh it's it's keep it from decaying or something look it was 19 years it was exposed to the sun it was out there it was being they began the excavations in 1996 and it's fine fine and now that they finished the excavations they decide in that particular area they're Excavating other areas they decide to stick this horrendous roof over it um which cuts out the light makes it impossible to see the stum pillars the roof is badly built so it there are platforms built inside it on which huge heaps of stones have been piled up that's to keep the roof on if there's any high winds so suddenly yes so suddenly the possibility of any kind of magical experience at the world's most intriguing and mysterious ancient site is completely written off by this hideous piece of so-called protective architecture which in my view is just the worst kind of vandalism I really offended by it I've been I went back to I was in gcle tee in 2013 I went back again this year and I am I was just horrified it made me feel physically sick to see what had been what had been done to it that's so bizarre the desire to is it to sell tickets so people have to pay to get in there they I think it's a I think I think it's a kind of um in this case I think it's a kind of possession this is ours really we've
seen it we the experts we the authorities nobody else really get to form an opinion about it because we're going to damage its appearance so much in protecting it that it'll that it'll lose its essential mystery well it just seems bizarre that they're trying to protect stone that doesn't make any sense it's like imagine if someone decided to put a giant canopy over the Spinx you'd be like what are you talking about been here forever dumm see and this is being done at archaeological sites around the world it's been done at midra and Hagar In in Malta which have profound astronomical alignments you stick a [ __ ] great Dome over the top of it you know um it's being done at rosling Chapel in Edinburgh we ruin everything we ruin everything and the worst the worst vandals are often the authorities those who are those who are in control well that zi haasa is in the Pokey now right no he's not didn't he arrest him he did but all the charges were dropped oh he came up with some shackles yeah situation he's a he's a big front man for Egypt is he still running everything over there no he's not running everything but he's got an official position in relation to the promotion tourism and it's so bizarre when you see those guys so vly opposed to new information which is essentially what the ideas being proposed are there's new information there's certain pieces of new information that in my mind are just undeniable the Robert shock stuff I mean I'm trying to by the way I I my first trip to gcle Tey Robert shock and I traveled together you guys made a video right uh there was some filming yeah yeah but we were we were at gcle tee in December uh sorry not gcle tee at G Padang in in Indonesia shock and I were were there in December 2013 and then I went back again with what was his impression of it his impression was very much that this is an intriguing site he looked at the remote you see as a geologist he can understand what remote scanning paper work looks like and he looked at what Danny's team had produced and said this is you know absolutely fascinating it really deserves further research and that's now what it's getting fortunately well it's just amazing when they uncover these things like uh I love the ones they find in Mexico when they're like building
something and then they stumble upon some ancient Aztec Temple not many people who go to chichin and see the temple of kukan there the Pyramid of kokan which is the famous monument of shishita uh not many people realize that there's another Pyramid inside it which is inside inside it there's a little door at the bottom of the northern stairway and in I don't think it can be done now the place has been so tightly controlled I don't think people are even allowed to climb the Pyramid of kukul Khan when did they stop that I believe that stopped in the last two 3 years I was there I was the no it may be a little longer I was the last time I was there was in 2010 and then it was stopped well they said when erosion by people's feet I don't know I don't know uh there may there may be all kind of arguments but but the fact is it was possible to climb it yeah I used to I did back in the back in the '90s anyway inside it is a whole second pyramid the pyramid that we see has been built on top of an earlier one and there's a passageway leads up to the top of it and there's an altar and there's a figure of a pummer or a you are inside is very spooky Place wow yeah that whole that whole complex is so incredible it's so amazing to think that you know do I know you scuba dive have you ever done those tunnels that they found in the senes yeah no I haven't I haven't those are terrifying these people scuba dive and they go there's these Mayan tunnels that they had found that are underwater so you have to but the people that are treasure Hunters have gone into these things and found these incredible artifacts but you got to be willing to swim underwater with scuba gear in a dark tunnel for a long time yes like they're long like you can get a mile in yes that's that to Tak takes tremendous courage also takes also takes very special equipment um you know you're having to having to carry a lot more air with you and it would be it would be a very complex mixture of gases and sometimes they have narrow passages you have to squeeze through one of the most cave cave diving is one of the most dangerous things [ __ ] that you know because because I'll tell you why because the the entrance passage can be long and winding there can be several alternative routes through it and it's
often heavily Laden with silt with sediment um if the drive if the diver is not very experienced or if the diver panics and starts thrashing around that silt silt gets thrown up into the water and completely fills the water so that you can't see your hand in front of your face and suddenly you're a mile in 100 ft deep and blind oh [ __ ] that was one of the most legitimate freakouts I've ever had on the podcast right there you saying that me thinking that was just a tremendous freak out yeah just the idea of being knowing that it's you're going to run out of air before it settles too yes oh yes you're done for unless unless you can find your wayless by some miracle you can find your way through that fog but the very first thing if you're going to do that that you have to do is you have to calm your mind you're freaking me out man yeah yeah well let's talk about my novels then well listen those people are just Brave as [ __ ] um it's just amazing that people are willing to do that yeah it's guts it's courage it's courage my God courage of the warrior in a way so um is this how many novels have you written now so I've written three um is this the third well I've written entangled which is a whole other story and then I've written volume one and volume two of war god the first volume was war god Knights of the witch it was published in 2013 there was a big support and take up from your audience which I'm extremely grateful for I heard a lot of positive reviews too people enjoyed it thank you and I made a I made an offer at that time on your show where I said that if people wrote to me at a particular address which is wargod dedications gmail.com and sent me their own address and showed me that they'd pre-ordered the book uh I would send them a signed dedicated book plate in other words I would sign a label I would dedicate it to them I would send it to them little did I know that nearly 5,000 people would ask for those sign dedicated book plates it became a massive labor of love for both myself and my wife Santa she's doing the enveloping I'm dealing with the correspondents putting the signing the signing the book plates we going to the post office we're spending thousands of pounds on Postage and but it was great it was a fantastic thing and it gave and
it and it helped the book to get noticed um because there was great skepticism about buying a second volume from my Publishers unless the first volume worked and the first volume worked enough for me to to be commissioned to write volume two of war god which is called War good return of the plumed serpent and that is published on the 9th of October and I'm making the same special offer very limited to to your but it's going to be a bit different first time first off the if you go to my website go to www.g grahamhancock.com and go to the war good page it's very easy to get there um right scroll down at the bottom of the page that shows the covers of all the additions and you will find a a statement there and that is that if people write to me if people pre-order first of all they have to pre-order either order volume one or pre-order volume two Amazon don't take your money until they actually send the book uh and I've got the links to amazon.com there uh I will when I finished my travels and I'm going to be on the road until the 27th of October uh but during November I will send out those book plates again but what I can't do this time is I can't get into personal correspondence with people it was very interesting it was very touching and heart and heartwarming thing that so many people wrote to me and so many of them I wanted to speak back to them I it's very cold you know to receive a letter and not to reply so I so I did but I the problem this year is that I've got to write the sequel to Fingerprints of the Gods and I'd really need to start that during November because my research travels will be over at that point I've got to write that and I can't spend two months or 3 months corresponding in detail so my my offer is write to me show me that you've bought the book or pre-ordered volume two uh and above all please give me your postal address because you can't imagine how many times people write to me asking for the book plates and don't give me their postal address please give me your postal address and when I get back from my travels I will sign the book plates I will send you a signed book plate which is simply a label that you can stick inside your copy of the book and that if if if that results in a bit more uptake
for war good 2 it'll be good for me because it's very difficult to start a sort of new career as a novelist at the age of 64 uh and but you seem to be really enjoying I love it I love writing novels and I love getting this is why I was talking about Warriors earlier I love getting into the spirit of the warrior um I don't know why it's fascinating it's just it's just absolutely fasc what would drive a man like Cortez to take 490 men and and face them against the might of the Aztec empire hundreds of thousands of men underarms who will kill you in the most awful way if they if they catch you what kind kind of will does it take to do that and and it was it's been interesting for me to get inside the heads of these people and also to consider because I'm interested in them Supernatural elements were they being misled by demonic forces in some way that's something that that I examine there so I love doing it but it's I'm known as a non-fiction author and that's mainly what I do uh people buy non-fiction because they're interested in the subject very often people bu a novelist because they trust that novelist and know that his next book will be good and I need to build up that is your fascination with demons what's your fascination with Supernatural influences and the concept of demons for a long time I I didn't believe in any spiritual element to life I was I didn't see any of that at all it was only really when I and this is where my critics will say well hok's gone nuts you know it was only really when I started drinking iwasa in 2003 I suppose for a decade before that I'd been immersed in the ancient Egyptian texts and the ancient Egyptians are all about uh the Quest for Immortal Life they're all they're all about how you live this life to continue on as a as a spirit and ultimately to to live the life of millions of of years uh and they very clearly indicate that dark Forces are at work in the universe which can mislead us as well as there are light and positive forces that we can choose to follow which will lead us into very nurturing and and worthwhile in excellent directions all all those influences are there so that's there in ancient Egypt then I start drinking K iwasa in 2003 and I I encounter um
seamlessly convincing parallel Realms inhabited by intelligent beings um some of whom uh seem very dark and dangerous and some of and some of whom are filled with light and joy and and exercise the power of healing now I absolutely accept that all of this could be a projection or a creation of my own mind that there is no exterior reality to it whatsoever it's just that's all there is um but I don't think it's that way I think I think that what happens in a deeply aled State of Consciousness is that we retune the receiver wavelength of the brain and encounter other levels of reality that are normally closed off to our senses and the first thing I would say to any I know that a number of people who've worked with psychedelics in depth haven't come to that conclusion I know that but the conclusion that I come to might the little offering that I bring to the table and that many others have brought is that there is a separate freestanding reality of some kind which we don't fully understand yet and that in aled States Of Consciousness we can encounter interact with that reality that's the that's the view that I have now in that reality are spiritual forces some of which seem to eat fear and energy and and and and dark energy they thrive on they see they seem to thrive on anything that's miserable or Wicked or or or or cruel or thoughtless or vile about humanity and at the other side of it are entities that glow with light and love and that and that seek to show us how we may bring to light that Divine spark within us to go back to the Gnostic Gnostic idea those you encounter in a very direct way in the iasa journey um because unlike you do encounter them in the DMT Journey too they're not quite the same but unlike DMT iasa allows time for really processing and thinking through what you're experiencing it's it's unfolding over 4 hours not four or five minutes and that you know that is is a huge effect and it had a huge effect on me and I I'm I'm I'm not adamant about this I accept I could be fantasizing it all it's interesting that other people encounter pretty much the same beings and and the same sort of drive to do something better than they've done before right um it's interesting that there's that transpersonal side of it I choose to
believe that there are freestanding parallel dimensions and that we are encountering them in aled States Of Consciousness and that therefore there's interesting scientific work to be done because in theory we could actually begin the targeted exploration of those Dimensions uh by using volunteers and and and psychedelics I choose to believe that that's what's going on I could be completely wrong it could just be the Majesty of the human mind and we just invent all these worlds that's what I was going to ask you what's the most compelling argument against it like what's the most compelling AR article um argument rather from like a neurological standpoint like do anybody ever explain to you like what's going on there isn't a compelling argument they don't know there isn't a compelling argument there's a reference frame and the reference frame and this is again where where I got myself into so much trouble with Ted the reference frame is the reference frame of materialist science and that reference frame says that all Consciousness is a kind of accidental epiphenomenon of brain activity um there there's actually no reality to Consciousness that is not something that's been proven scientifically and experimental it is just the way that a large and influential group of scientists see the world that everything can be reduced to material causes so the changes in brain activity that accompany Visions you can measure you can observe those changes on an MRI scanner those changes in brain activity are the experience you're having according to this reference frame your that your experience can just be reduced to that and there's nothing else to it but that's not a fact that is a that is a philosophical view about how reality works uh we don't know for sure it could easily be the other way around um that that the brain activity is simply necessary in order for us to see something that was always there but that was normally closed off to our senses so the the the compelling argument as far as like what what's happening when you're having these extreme visual experiences what's what what is the argument has anybody ever tried to explain it is it just some supposed to be some chemical reaction with your
cortex that is the yes that is the that is the materialist reductionist view that it's just that and nothing more but there's a whole other view on it Rick strasman at the University of New Mexico you're very familiar with his work because you presented The Spirit Molecule yes uh Rick's Rick strasman does entertain the possibility that what is going on is not merely in and of our brains but does represent stable freestanding dimensions of reality we we have no facts in this but we have incredibly intriguing area to inquire into you know yeah and it's it's also one of those things where I feel like when you've experienced it yourself you get a really better frame of reference as to why is this compelling at all because it sounds Preposterous to someone who has no experiences I know it really does it's you know because and I'm going to have loads of people saying hok's a drugie of course too late but the you know it's there's that thing that people when you want to Define certain aspects of of uh whatever the Psychedelic experience is where they seem to be almost impossible to Define for people who have actually experienced it yes the real problem is when someone who hasn't experienced it tries to Define it and it's like man you can come up with a bunch of really compelling arguments from like a medical standpoint to like what is what's the effect on the cerebral cortex what's the effect on the visual aspects of you know your interpretation of this thing is because of this chemical interacting with that that's all fascinating amazing stuff but the experience bad science it's bad science to present it as fact when it isn't I I many times given this very simple analogy of the telescope um which I think explains the logical problem in the materialist view if you want to look at a distant star with your telescope you're going to point it at the right area of the sky first of all and then you're going to focus it and as you focus it physical changes will take place in the relationship between the lenses inside the barrel of the telescope yeah right okay eventually the star will come into view and you can see it clearly you'd be completely wrong to say that the star is the physical
changes inside the barrel of the telescope those physical changes have simply allowed you to see the star whoa just blew my [ __ ] mind and that's the same idea with DMT that it's that it's changing brain function to allow you to see something that you couldn't it's refocusing the brain in other words wow that's very possible that's can't prove but it's an interesting inquiry I never thought about it that way I don't think not not entirely and interesting experiments could be done to test that with human volunteers you could you could begin to investigate if there is a freestanding reality then we ought to be able to get certain information out of it there should be possibilities so you know I always had just start it as a chemical Gateway yeah but I think this is a way better way of explaining it the idea of a telescope having to focus in to see something and then the the chemicals focusing you in that a chemical your own brain makes makes it focusing you in and perhaps for some very good reason wow that's amazing I never thought about it that way before yeah but whatever it is it's pretty [ __ ] profound and for someone to comment on it that hasn't taken it seems kind of silly especially because it's only 15 minutes yeah it's disrespectful to speak of it to to to it's it's fine to speak of it but it's disrespectful to put it down without having had the you know the guts actually to have the experience yourself don't you think it's becoming more and more accepted though CU I think for a long time academics resisted taking it or if they did take it talking about it because they didn't want to be labeled cuz there's a lot of people that will label you if you talk about psychelic until very recently it's been considered a career ruining move you know for any academics POS psychic even though they all knew the news yeah they all knew the positive side of this but this is again gradually changing and again I think the the the American role the role of the American people in changing the legal status of cannabis state by state is also going to feed into this and allow us to have a more rational dialogue regarding psychedelics which can be of course I'm not saying to people yeah go out and take psychedelics what I'm saying is that these are very powerful agents and that they can be
extremely healing used in the right way uh and they can change our whole view of reality why should we be forbidden to explore that if as responsible adults we choose to do so yeah it's it's it's I the argument is stupid and I I think the argument is eventually going away and I think it'll be replaced by a new argument and then the new argument is what the [ __ ] is really happening and you're your question about it or your uh proposal is V very fascinating one but whatever it is th those things are there and you can benefit from them or not it's up to you but the fact that we live in a world where those are illegal is is is crazy and and if people are having very bad experiences from time to time with psychedelics part of the reason for that is the world we've created where these are illegal and where it's impossible for people to get good advice that they can trust and where there's this atmosphere of danger and threat that surrounds it take all that away and this very powerful instrument can be managed much more effectively than no no doubt and I I equate it in a lot of ways this this idea of uh it being bad and negative I equate it in a lot of ways to vaccinations and here's why there's this vaccination this anti-vaccination movement in this country a lot of people feel like vaccination are unnecessary and they may have some good arguments they may have some good arguments especially about some certain vaccinations for things that are sexually transmitted diseases and things along those lines like hepatitis shots and [ __ ] you're giving to little kids like there's there's a real good argument against that um and there's a little there's definitely an argument that there's a lot of medication that kids are taking and is it the right amount but there's no argument that vaccinations haven't saved a [ __ ] ton of lives CU they have they've they've stopped a lot of diseases dead in their tracks but they also much like we talked about some people are allergic to cats some people have very different biological reactions to all sorts of different chemicals and there's going to be some ADV reactions to anything you put in your body I absolutely agree that vac vaccination is an incredibly effective medical tool in many ways but there also is a kind of vaccination
Mafia at work because they're the ultimate Mass medication and people are making money there's no doubt there's whenever there's profits there's f fckery there's no getting around it it's just the way human beings are so it's it's one of those scenarios very much like psychedelics in a way that there are going to be some rare cases if we make psychedelics legal across the board there's going to be some rare cases of a person in a bad state of mind or a bad mental makeup or what have you bad psychological makeup you fill in the blanks where they take it and it's detrimental to them it's going to happen and that'll be highly publicized and used as an argument Toop all of these freedoms and Bill hick Bill Hicks had the very best answer to that as I'm sure as I'm sure you remember you know that the the the lunatic who leaps out of the window imagine he can fly on LSD why didn't the [ __ ] try and take off from the ground you know yeah he goes he goes we lost a [ __ ] the world got lighter exactly the world got lighter is one of my favorite lines beautiful beautiful yeah but that's um that is uh you know it's it's just a strange argu to keep people from doing it because especially like this doctor that we were talking about earlier that's talking about cannabis in the addictive properties of cannabis this is even even talking to someone who was addicted to cannabis and you it's still it's a it's a silly I like there's a lot going on when someone's addicted it's not all necessarily chemical and the ones that are chemical you're getting paid for so that doesn't even make any sense the ones that chemically make you addicted is the ones you're getting money from and that's why people have fed up with all of this [ __ ] because it's so corrupt and it's so wrong and it's time that it's time that a new Direction was was taken and there are people who are on the wrong side of history on this and there will be but but we are moving forward I think we are as well I think it's uh it's it's pretty cool to see too yeah but you know I think it's also important that a guy like you who smoked pot from 9:00 a.m. to 2 a.m. every day 7 days a week days a week 365 days a year going to enormous length to be able to obtain it when I was traveling yes well
it's complicated you have to have a network sources you know it is it is um I I I do know what I'm talking about I had a long I had a long relationship with it and um I understand how how do you feel now having dipped back in the water a little bit I I feel good but I don't feel any urge to become you know can smoker again I like my clarity I've I I was able to write with cannabis but since I stopped smoking cannabis I've been clear my my my mind there's been a Clarity there a certain fog we lifted that fog wouldn't have been there if I'd had one joint at the weekend and that was all but it's I was smoking all day long that's why it was there it's nice not to have that fog I feel good about it I feel more productive I write on my novels I can write 5,000 words a day sometimes I get so into the zone so into the flow um you know all that all that is good and I feel I feel good about it and I feel probably in the long run my right choice would not to be have a big have a big relationship with cannabis I think I've done that been there I've done that and and you know I've got the T-shirt yeah for me it's a tool I don't use the same tool every day sometimes I don't use any tools I don't need it but it has a pretty profound effect in a lot of ways you know one one of my favorite things to do is at night get high and go down to the beach okay and stare at the ocean oh I I used to love doing that oh my God that thing freaks me out when I'm high when you're when you're high goddess it's a goddess yeah it's a monster it's a living thing almost it's a force it's a nature force that doesn't give a [ __ ] about you I think there's one reason why like people that live by the Beach are so mellow yeah the beach communities are notoriously mellow that's true and I think one of the reasons why they're notoriously me mellow is because they're faced with overwhelming evidence that they ain't [ __ ] yes you're sitting there looking out at the greatest like natural force that you could imagine it's an entire different world you're out there literally it's like if we had explain it in a galactic term it would be like you're parking yourself next to the membrane between Dimensions I mean you are literally in this world over here and right next to your face is a whole another world like we couldn't even
imagine that but that the [ __ ] exactly what it is if you go like if you go to Santa Monica and you go over by where that Pier is and you just walk along that sand and just start walking out into that water you're in another world in like 20 steps absolutely you're you're over your head and you're in another dimension you can't survive in you better get the [ __ ] back it doesn't feel like you went to another planet but you might as well have have gone to another planet definitely definitely it is right there one of my strongest experiences of diving was um just to tell her a little story was diving off tenar in the in the Canary Islands and I was down at u a good 20 M underwater let's say 70 ft but there was a storm that day and the huge swell on the surface was so powerful that it was smashing me against the bottom of the sea oh my god bang bang bang and and I just that moment I realized I am I am in the hands of a gigantic force that I can do absolutely nothing about there's nothing you can do SE the sea for me is a goddess fortunately I got over a lip and down into deeper water and it was okay deeper water yeah another 10 m what the [ __ ] man how long did you have to wait it out that was another story um we stayed down for about 20 25 minutes we then had to had to come up we'd been working quite hard at depth and you get through your get through your air um but what we hadn't done was wrecky the exit point and when we surfaced in this heavy swell it was extremely difficult to get out of the Sea The Rocks came down quite Steep and sheer I think we discussed this yeah before you you came up at a different spot right yeah and it was bad but anyway here I am to tell the tale and an older and wiser man Greg Fitz Simmons has a terrifying he's a good buddy of mine very funny standup comedian has a terrifying story he was on vacation he saw woman drowning and he went out to save her and he realized he like hanging on to this woman swimming back while his kids and his wife and everyone was on the shore and he was like holy [ __ ] like I'm trying to save someone here and I sometimes when people try to save people they get drowned I know it happens often yeah happens often yeah that's and you know he said that the the tide was a little bit too strong he was really
spooked by the Rip Tide the C is something to respect [ __ ] yeah it you know something something [ __ ] yeah it is that's a terrifying thing but that's my favorite thing to one of my favorite things to do when I walk the beach late at night Yeah by myself smoke a spliff just stand out there and stare by myself puts everything in perspective it's just it's like the ultimate it's it's very psych not just psychedelic but it's very isolation tank esque in a way it's an overwhelming amount of information but there's like Solitude in the sound and the noise that sort of drowns out the rest of the world doesn't totally drown it out like an isolation tank does but it has a partial effect because you you get it's a moving but semi waves are andimar get this very simar over again withi and then there's the overwhelming number the the gallons of water that's just so in front of you so you can't see past this [ __ ] thing and it's dark so then there's the unknown the unknown which is the big freaker you know you're looking out this black monster and sometimes when it's this black monster you get a better sense of it than when it's this beautiful blue thing during the day when the sun's hitting it it's reflecting cuz then you get all this visual stuff that's distracting you from the fact that's a fuckload of water the giant fuckload of water and it's right there and it could just go whoh just come in like this and you're gone and everything's gone like a thousand [ __ ] feet high waves can that's happened before it has has happened before that's part of that's part also part of the new research that I'm doing um and I'm about to do a trip with Randall Carson who's been on your show love um you know Rand was so far ahead of the curve in recognizing that the gigantic flooding that came off the North American ice cap wasn't just caused by what I used to think it was caused by which is that Lakes of meltwater develop on the surface of the ice cap and finally the the dam the ice Dam breaks and the Melt water pours out Randle been pointing out for years that that the water flows were much too radical for that something much bigger had to be had to be involved so he was well ahead of the evidence when scientists began to realize that the
North American ice cap had been hit by a comet 12,980 years ago and set in motion the epoch that geologists called the younger Drass so Rand and so Randall is a great expert in this in this area um my wife Santa's traveling with us as well and a friend of Randall's who's wait with him for many years called Bradley and we're going to do a road trip from Portland Oregon all the way to Minneapolis uh following the it's about 2,000 miles I believe following the southern edge of the former ice cap and Randall's going to show us the scars and tears on the landscape of what happened when that ice cap was instantly liquidized by a comet impact and and huge tidal waves of water roared down off it across the land good Lord going to see that uh in in detail with Randall really looking forward to doing that also the first time I've ever crossed well most of America by Road um I've always wanted to do that there's certain spots shouldn't stop if you feel like you're in danger you're in Danger get in the car and hit the gas and if you do you know what country music is you got get of country you got to fit in you got blend can you fake a Southern accent CU if they think you're from the I can do my best you know you from the angland they won't like you man they w't they'll get very upset at you you you're better than us what are you Doctor Who the funny thing is in England I often get mistaken for an American do you really it's weird you know here nobody nobody's in any doubt what I am but in England I'm think you're American yeah or sometimes Canadian whoa Canada has a bit of that there's like a certain amount of English it sounds like in their the way they talk about things certain a clear variation between them and US yeah there is definitely even I can hear that and I've got a tin ear I can I can I can hear that too yeah it's a I can totally tell a Canadian after a while but so similar yeah very similar very similar that's hilarious that anybody would ever think you're an American though I know I know anyway it's going to be great I'm really looking forward to this my wife that sounds fantastic is going to take loads and loads of pictures and we're going to go up in an airplane a few times times and look at the look at the land underneath us and it's going to be
a great exciting research trip and it's the last research trip for this sequel that I'm writing to fingerprints I'm sure you've seen this most recent discovery about micro diamonds yeah that's exactly it that's that's that's precisely that is the that has finally settled it any scientists who were attempting to argue that there wasn't a comet impact now with all the evidence that's come in over the last five or six years is just settled by the nanodiamonds scattered in a huge SWA all over the world which are ass sure uh chemical imprint of a massive comet impact and they know a lot about it now it's it's really very very clear and this was an an episode that changed the world uh it killed off the many of the megap fora that we've all heard of the mammoths the Woody rhinos and so on and so forth and it got rid of uh what was called the Clovis culture hun gather culture in the United States and I think it got rid of a whole civilization that we've only remembered in myth and memory at least that's the line that I'm investigating it's a fascinating line especially when as each visit that you come back to the podcast there's new information over the last time it was the nuclear glass that they discovered when they were doing core samples again which is about 12,000 years ago right and then the new one is this micro diamonds it seems like over and over again this this not it becomes not a possibility but a reality that there was some sort of an impact something gigantic happened all over the world right it wasn't just all over the world it it was massive in America but it was the effect was everywhere both impact because this comment broke up into fragments like Shaker ly 9 both impacts but also very important the gigantic cloud of dust that's thrown up into the upper atmosphere which then so you have this immediate reaction of flooding as the comet liquidizer part of the North American ice cap and then a huge dust plume is up in the air all over the world and the whole earth is shrouded in dust as and cooled and cooled because it's reflecting back the sun's Ray so we go into this 1,300 1,400 year period called the younger Dr uh where the Earth gets incredibly cold even though previously it had been
coming out of the out of the ice it's truly a gigantic event and then weirdly all our history everything we think of as our past begins at the end of the younger Dr around kicks in 12,980 years ago ends 11,600 years ago the earth begin to warm begins to warm up again and everything we know about ourselves or can claim we know unfolds in that last 11,600 years and the period before the younger drers we really blank on so much of it it's so fascinating I said it again [ __ ] but it's it's it's amazing that all this information keeps coming up to support this and it's amazing if we do consider the possibility that it is true that everything can be essentially shut back down to zero with some rocks from the sky that that's something that we really need to get in our head that could happen there there is a very distinct possibility that we could be hit by something the NASA photographs of the I think they call it the Black Diamond the Earth at night okay what you see is certain areas of the world are brightly lit up Europe North America for example on the other hand Africa and large parts of South America are dark because there's no electrification in those areas and those photographs are often taken to say to speak of our achievement look how we can light up the planet like a like a Christmas tree so that it can be viewed from viewed from space but I would say it also says another thing that if we had if we were to confront again the same sort of cataclysm that hit the earth 12,980 years ago then the people who would survive and carry the human story forward would be those very people who live in the dark areas the areas that aren't electrified and we who live in the glowing lights that show up on those NASA photographs who've become so specialized who most of us are unable even to know how to plant a vegetable or or or h an animal we're the ones who would uh who would be gone and the whole order of the world would be reversed W so the world would become like an iasa culture you'd have all these [ __ ] people from the Amazon that would be fine because they're they're fine they'd be absolutely fine they know how to survive you know they know they know how to do it so again I think the message of this is we shouldn't be arrogant and
complacent in the achievements of our civilization we have done wonderful and amazing things as well as terrible things but we shouldn't be arrogant or complacent about it we should recognize it's all very fragile can be taken away from us at any time we can take it away from ourselves without a doubt the information is something consider just the information about these these impacts it's something to consider and it's also something to consider that if that's correct boy what a magical time it must have been back when they had developed some sort of technology that was enabling them to make structures like gockley book magicians of Gods because there's something magical something something about it that we would we would call Magic but perhaps was just another another form of science yeah whatever they were able to do I mean it's amazing that we haven't figured it out yet but we're so arrogant in our assumptions that it had to be all the ways that we've already figured out that's so silly because like isn't there some [ __ ] we haven't figured out yet ex like this new this new ability that they've just found out that they've uh can taken people and they've used the internet to send information from person's mind to another person's mind 5,000 miles away it's incredible but nobody else did that before that so we didn't really think that that was we thought maybe it' be a possibility but now we know it's a possibility well whatever the [ __ ] they did to make these pyramids like just because we haven't figured it out yet doesn't mean they were using wooden rollers like they could have had some really incredible technology that just we don't have a trace of it anymore we're looking at a form of technology that we don't recognize as what is because we're we're programmed to think of it entirely in our own terms and it's almost like the universe is giving us a puzzle that's so incredibly in your face with its most obvious results mhm and because because we have these preconceived notions that we're we're not willing to accept that as a possibility like when people look at the pyramids they go well you know the thing is they build ramps and they use Stone rollers and like a there's a whole faction who look for the most
boring meaningless Poss they might have done they might have done that but the fact that that are large groups of people whose mission is to look for the most boring rather than the most extraordinary possibility it's good that's how we have balance in our society we do need to look we do need to look with a skeptical eye and say that there could be mundane explanations for this but we also need to keep a tiny fraction of our research effort perhaps a very small fraction indeed uh to explor Alternative exploring alternative ideas because every now if they do come out right they change everything in the way that the mundane things don't and it's really worthwhile and the only thing I'm understand why I've been subjected to so much criticism and I welcome it I've I've leared a great deal from that criticism but is it wise for us to live in a society which is hostile to the exploration of extraordinary possibilities shouldn't we actually protect that and make that something which which we encourage those who wish to do so in our society to do just on the off chance that they might come up with something utterly world changing especially if it's done with careful consideration like you've done or especially like what Randall Carlson's done with asteroidal impacts is absolutely stunning and fascinating I mean and what he's done is done with very careful consideration absolutely r's real he's a real scholar real thorough researcher and investigator and he was awesome on the podcast was one of my all-time favorites yeah these these ideas are fascinating but what I was going to say was that it's almost like the number is so large like 2,300,000 stones in the Great Pyramid it's which is so bizarre the number million tons yeah the numb blocks of 50 to 70 tons Roofing the king's chamber ated to Heights of 300 ft above the ground almost perfectly aligned to True North Southeast and West within a fraction of a single degree you know so crazy that the like if they could come back from from the past and if they come to our time today and go wait a minute how did you guys think we did this you think we used slaves oh my God that's so funny yeah yeah you got come over here man tell him tell them how you think we made the pyramids slaves on wood get the
[ __ ] out of here he's really saying that they be like laughing like you guys haven't invented this Magneto thing yet something that allows you to turn don't know how to move things with st with sound yeah you don't know how to manifest things out of the air you don't know how to exercise The Majestic and incredible power of your mind to just running out of time unfortunately and if we're running out of time can I say again yes please because I am a bing novelist please please if anybody out there would like to take me up in this offer just go to grahamhancock.com go to the war god page which you'll find easily scroll down and see where to write to me but I have to repeat again I will send you the book plates but I can't correspond correspond and it will be November before I'm in a position to send the book plates cuz I'm on the road continuously until the 27th of grahamhancock.com grahamhancock.com I'm my goal is to make this so successful that you never make another offer ever again I want to I want to ruin you so they like you can't sign all these things you have too many coming in and you're like what the [ __ ] am I doing why am I I can't do this this is my whole life now so I know it's this will be the last one I think it'll probably be the last one by the way there's there's chapters to to read free online on the war god page as well so I'm not asking people to sight unseen they can have a look beautiful and your book Fingerprints of the Gods I've said it before when you've been on the podcast before changed my single-handedly change my ideas about history Chang my ideas not just not in any way discounting the amazing work that traditional traditional historians have done but just that these things exist that defy explanation and that I didn't know just the fact that there is a guy from Boston University named Robert shock who's a prominent geologist who said this is clear erosion and there was last time there was aosion was 9,000 BC like you're talking about an insane amount of time has passed since there was thousands of years of that rainfall by the way you needed thousands of years to do what we see on this this isn't wind like this is some crazy [ __ ] that's what I to do in in fingerprints was to you know to bring together people like John
Anthony West who brought Robert shock to the F like Robert baval like Rose femath a lot of researchers were working in the field and coming up with extraordinary information and part of what I did in that book was was to you know bring all that information together into a kind of synthesis I suppose it's such an interesting Theory and it's such an interesting subject and now that it keeps getting substantiated by places like gockley tapy or these micr meteors that sort of like piece the puzzle together slowly but surely I think as time goes on we're going to find there's going to be a bunch of civilizations that we uncover those ones that they're finding in Mexico and then of course there's ones they're finding in the Amazon they think just like we were talking about the other they find a hill and they think it's a hill and then someone realizes like holy [ __ ] this is a this is a building guys huge Earthworks in the Amazon Stone circles you know that's another place to look for A Lost Civilization we're out of time that's it right we're we're dying we're dying how much time we have it's counting down how much time give me seconds less than a minute all right thank you thank you Graham Hancock thanks to our sponsors thanks to meundies uh thanks to Ting and uh thanks to draftkings.com uh go there and do that and use those codes they were all earlier I said them earlier just [ __ ] rewind it [ __ ] uh but thank you also to uh everybody tuning into this podcast and thanks for all the positive feedback and everything go to grahamhancock.com grahamhancock.com and Order the book thank you sir appreciate it very much thanks Joe it's been fun say bye that's it we're good you can say bye bye everybody