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live three two one go it's on yeah oh Jesus [ __ ] Christ sorry this episode of the podcast is brought to you by your mother's vagina that's how you got here whoa so everything's brought to you from that to you personally not me I don't know your mother this what a terrible way to start a show this episode is brought to you by Squarespace Squarespace is the all in one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website and I really do mean professional they they make [ __ ] amazing websites if you go to deathsquad.tv and check out the website that Brian has created along with the online store that he's created he did it in about [ __ ] 10 minutes it's incredible how easy it is drag and drop interface 247 support and it works great on everything on Android iPhone Unix Linux work on whatever you want Windows Mac PC very easy to use um plan start at $8 a month that includes a free domain name if you sign up for a year responsive design and your design will look awesome on any device online Commerce very easy to set up easy as peasy I don't even think that's a real thing to say easy peasy it's awesome that's what I'm trying to tell you every site comes with an online store really really easy to do Squarespace has a logo creator we can create a clean simple design for yourself in minutes and every design automatically includes a unique mobile experience that matches the overall style of your website so your content will look great on everything all the time for a free trial and 10% off your first purchase go to squarespace.com and enter the code word Joe Squarespace a better web starts with your website we're also brought to you by NatureBox the official snack provider for the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast that's this one it's the one you're listening to Nature Box I'm meat and in that [ __ ] right now if you hear me going that's cuz I have Santa Fe corn stick stuck in my teeth I'm a fan I'm a fan of all this [ __ ] nature box is u a way where you can get healthy St well we'll run this [ __ ] by Mike Dolce you'll see how healthy it really is chocolate quinoa granola how you going to [ __ ] with that M that's good [ __ ] dude um nature box has zero trans fats zero high fructose corn syrup very you can get F
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that's it boom shellock lock boom cue the music the Joe Logan experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day fitness Guru to the Stars Mike Dolce my friend good to see you brother thanks for coming back here cheers to you thanks Joe thanks for coming on man we got got a lot of questions got a lot of questions diet questions Nature Box questions granola quinoa chocolate let me check that out please yeah please do good here we go it's yummy tell you that it's yummy as [ __ ] you don't have to check that out but I want to talk to you about um a lot of people um who don't understand mixed martial arts uh or maybe they're casual fans they don't know that there's a lot going on in uh MMA and one of the things that's going on besides the fact that it's a very dangerous very uh it's a a highly charged Sport with a lot on the line for the competitors but one of the things that's on the line that a lot of people aren't aware of is a thing that we call weight cutting and so I can fill people in that may just not know much about MMA if a fighter is going to fight at say 145 lbs that's one of our weight classes um they probably don't really weigh 145 PBS it's very rare that you get a guy like Frankie Edgar who was the lightweight champion who lightweight in the UFC is 155 lbs that's what he actually used to weigh he was in he was really fit and uh he walked around at 155 he didn't cut any weight to uh to weigh in for the weight class and he was always smaller than almost anyone in his division he still won and beat some of the best guys in the planet just cuz he's really tough and very highly skilled but that's the Rarity the only division where that doesn't take place is in the heavyweight division which guys don't have to cut any weight at all generally speaking there was a few exceptions like Tim Sylvia in this hey used to be a little bit bigger or Brock Lesnar might have cut a little or Alistar overing when he first fought in the UFC cut a little but for the most part those guys get to eat whatever the [ __ ] they want for everybody else there's essentially there's two different events going on there's the event where there's a fight where you're training to compete against the best mixed martial arts fighters in the world
but then there's also the weigh-in and the weigh-in is an event in and of itself it is a huge thing cuz you get guys like a perfect example of extreme examples is glacon Tau which I don't think glay's missed weight has he ever missed weight not that I know of he figures out a way to do it they they get it done but glacon is [ __ ] enormous he fights at 155 I weigh in the high 190s and he's bigger than me so I don't know how the [ __ ] he does it I really don't know how the guy does It suffers he suffers and he gets down to 155 for a very brief window of time and then rehydrates the [ __ ] out of himself yeah and that's the goal ultimately what trying to do is trying to be on weight for the shortest time possible to minimize the ill effects of being at that weight guy like Nick lint 145 pound and you brought up 45s so Nick lens he does most of his training camp around 175 now whoa that's so crazy massive and we want to touch down at 45 and be there for really under an hour I want my athletes still kind of Dripping that last sweat when they step on the scale so they can just graze the the contract weight and immediately we hydrate them right back up again and when you say nck lent walks around at 175 lbs for folks that are listening to this you oh he gets fat no he does not no at 10% body fat okay that is so crazy how is it possible that a guy can be 175 at 10% body F by the way I'm a fat [ __ ] I'm about 177% body fat you look look leaner than that I don't know I maybe a little self-deprecating maybe 15 let's be nice say I'm 15% body fat so this guy has 5% less body fat than me and he's going to cut 30 [ __ ] pounds yeah how does I do that it's through there the multi-stage process so when I back up when I talk to an athlete or when I talk about weight cutting I say number one it's not the best case scenario weight cut weight cutting is something that unfortunately has to be done by a lot of athletes in order to minimize Advantage as opposed to gaining an advantage but the weight cut should start 52 weeks before competition which means it should be a lifestyle these athletes and this is what they need to understand and hopefully we can spread this message is they need to be training and living and eating breathing like professional athletes 365 days out of the year so
they can minimize the downside of the weight cutting practice they need to be eating the proper Foods training intelligently resting completely so their body is able to endure the grueling practice of cutting weight so with Nick lent he's fresh in the mind right now I was just with him in Connecticut last week he made weight 146 Charles alera his opponent he missed weight by 4 lbs which was absolutely ridiculous unprofessional but there's a saying and that you know the first fight is with the scale so the athletes when they get to you know the the fight week or when they get to the the location they're focused on the scale they don't even think about the fight for the most part is that a good thing does it keep them from getting distracted about the fight that's yeah and that's actually uh a one of the positive benefits of it is that they're not focused on the fight they're not burning you know all that nervous energy thinking about the fight but that sets in pretty quick as soon as they step off the scale and they have that first face off in that case maybe every fighter should have just a really f crazy girlfriend that divans all their time and only hook up with her the weak of the fight so that she just demands all your you know you're all your [ __ ] care about is what you eat you don't even care about me I'm not even the most important thing to you and just have like the most crazy narcissistic psychotic relationship and girls should have ridiculous guys let me check your phone let me check your phone who's [ __ ] texting you your [ __ ] trainer is too little too comfortable with you that actually happens I'm sure it does I'm sure it does for men and for women now that we have a lot of women in the UFC I bet it happens for them more I bet guys are more psycho with their popular star women girlfriends those [ __ ] weird guys that are in the background that aren't famous they have famous girlfriends e me and mug all the coaches all the training Partners all the reporters creepers creepers each and every one of them not really I don't give a [ __ ] do whatever you want to do I don't care but the point is that this is uh this is a genuine issue and it's a genu physical issue as well as a genuine psychological issue yeah an amazing
training camp 8we 12we training camp can be blown during fight week or in the 24 40 hours 48 hours before they step in the Octagon or you know in the competition because they blew their weight cut and then even if they do make weight typically most athletes a large majority even at the high level they blow their rehydration they step on weight they think oh my God I made it and they grab a sandwich from the deli or they go and get you know pasta fetuccini Alfredo from the local you know Italian restaurant and they eat food that they haven't eaten in weeks or months before they totally screw up their digestive system body goes to [ __ ] and they you know they're a shadow of their former self well I know Chris leben talked pretty openly about how he did that in one of his weight Cuts he ate a bunch of gummy bears yeah and he went into shock yeah like his body literally like went into like some sort of a sugar shock because he just couldn't help himself yeah leben I've known leben since ' 04 when I started working up at Team Quest in Oregon so I was his coach for a long time worked with him for a few fights not many of the fights recently the vanderlay Silva fight was the most recent fight I worked with him that was one of his most spectacular victories of all time it was and that's when he was so motivated and that's the Chris I would have loved to have seen in all of his fights because he was lean he was sharp he was ready he was confident he chased away a lot of the demons and uh quick leing story so we you know back up to a fight previous you know years before that and I had lost contact with him hadn't seen him in a while and I see him I'm with another athlete in the casino I see leben and he's you know he's partying and this is right before the fight I'm like bro what are you how many hours before the fight it's like the day before so he's drinking he's well he's he's freaking of it you know I yeah partying in whatever whatever you know who he going to fight I God I don't know and hopefully by the end of the show I'll remember who it was and I think he actually won the fight which is insane I mean I got multiple leave and swords but I was like Chris what are you doing and he's like Dolce sometimes you just got to dance with the girl you came with
and I was like [ __ ] all right all right Chris you know high five good luck and I'm pretty positive he did go out there and win that fight uh I would imag I would imagine he did he's a wild [ __ ] for real that's a that's a great quote from lean because that is literally how he got there he got there being a wild man that's exactly what gave him his Edge and what got him to the top yeah yeah is this a weird maturing process isn't it for some Fighters where they got into fighting because they were so wild and Reckless and somewhere along the line they have to be cautious and calculated they have to really think of themselves pro athletes and I I I say that not just about their training and diet but also about their approach to fighting itself you know I think I'm a huge Forest Griffin fan yeah uh I love Forest just as a person and I'm a huge fan of his as a fighter but I think that one of the best and worst things that ever happened to him was that fight with that that like I would say it's one of the greatest most important fights in MMA but the fight with Stephen Bonner in the finals of The Ultimate Fight of the first season which was such a crazy fight people don't realize how bananas this situation was Spike TV was a new network it was like some [ __ ] Country Music Channel or something before that right wasn't it the country station or some [ __ ] it became Spike which was like a the the GU Channel and then they put on this thing The Ultimate Fighter and then you know people watched it it was a good show but in the finals Stefan boner and Forest Griffin went on it went at it so hard that the ratings went through the roof like they can monitor the ratings while the fight's going on and it went from you know like a million people watching it when it first started to like 10 million people at its peak which is insane Abol which they can track is directly related to people calling each other up and going dude you got to [ __ ] see this turn on channel 248 these [ __ ] are throwing down and then people started calling each other and and then they see through the fight as the it was a while fight it was because you got two guys who knew each other super well trained together for you know the six weeks they were in the house and then went to war and they
were so evenly matched that it was there was no winner in that fight at the end Forest Griffin won he got the decision but it was so close that we we actually talked about it inside the cage I said why don't you give both these guys a [ __ ] contract and they were and they talked about it and Lorenzo and Dan like let's get both these guys a [ __ ] contract and then boom they both got this this big six figure contract with the UFC but that kind of style was so rewarded that it became how Stephan Bonner fought and I think he's he's you know he still kind of fights like that um but Forest Griffin I think that it turned out to be his downfall in a lot of ways like this face forward charging aggressive style and that's how he lost to Keith Jardine and that's you know I believe like the more strategic Forest Griffin was the one who beat Shogun you know he he made some calculations he he made some adjust adjustments in his career but that that style that he like he learned how to be this wild Reckless [ __ ] because that was so rewarding exactly you know yeah and it's hard for an athlete sometimes to change their natural instinct I think and you see that in the gym where an athlete either they're very tentative and calculating when they first get into the gym and they kind of have to bring out that monster a little bit and learn to be a finisher and they tend to look a little bit boring and maybe an like an underachiever or you get a guy like forest or leben that goes out there and they just go balls to the wall throwing big shots and sometimes they get knocked out and sometimes they get their hand raised and uh you have to walk that fine line and you know unfortunately they're playing with their brains you know they're putting all they're going all in you know every every fight they're going all in and they don't know how they're going to walk out of it um so it's really interesting it's interesting to see how far the sports evolved I mean every couple years the sport evolves to a brand new level you see these young kids coming in now that are you know better equipped and better skilled than the champions of 10 years ago and they're not even contenders yet they're not even they're outside the top 20 right yeah yeah there's guys that are just coming up
that are 21 years old that have a better skill set than world champions of 10 years ago yeah it's amazing it's Insanity it is amazing um one of the issues when it comes to weight cutting and rehydration or dehydration rather is head trauma yeah and it's one of the reasons why rehydrating with an IV is so critical yeah because if you look at boxing the majority of the instances of men suffering uh inight brain damage Gerald mclen duck k Kim like there's a lot of these cases and almost all of them involve someone weight cutting Y and because of that boxing and now MMA has adjusted its schedule where the fighters weigh in the day before where they used to weigh in the day of the match old school boxing matches you would see them weigh in the day of the match they and they would still cut weight and then they would try to rehydrate and they didn't know what the [ __ ] they were doing back then and guys had dry brains I mean literally and because of that made them more susceptible to cerebral hemorrhages and brain damage and all sorts of different things uh very few heavyweight Fighters suffered from brain damage in in an actual fight it was usually you know years and years of repeated head trauma that got them but not like one event like a Geral mlen event sure and uh for folks who don't know J mlen was he was one of the great um light heavyweights of uh well he was uh he was a light heavyweight and he was a super middleweight as well wasn't he I so um and he was one of the guys who was eventually going to fight Roy Jones Jr fought Nigel Ben in a you know an epic contest had Ben really badly hurt they collided heads uh and he was all [ __ ] up and he went back to his corner and he took a knee and wound up bowing out of the fight and then immediately went into a coma and uh had some horrible horrible brain injuries because of that and that was a fight that uh changed a lot of people's ideas about uh weight cutting and about uh the dangers of head trauma because before that fight Gerald mclen was thought to be like an invincible Destroyer I mean people had seen him he was just knocking everybody out he was one of the cron Stars Kon boxing being Emanuel Stewart's team they produced Tommy Hearns and you know so many great great Fighters came out of that gym and
they all were just assassins and he was one of the best Geral mlen was a [ __ ] vicious vicious killer and uh everybody had to watch that and uh you know and he's still alive to this day he's blind and he's all [ __ ] up and sad [ __ ] sad directly related to dehydration right dehydration I would say so I mean it certainly contributed right it it assisted in the the damage and that's something that I I pound you know my my soap box when I talk to athletes when I talk to anybody is about health you got to be healthy if you're not healthy you can't perform you can't compete if your body is healthy then you can do absolutely anything it'll do anything you ask of it if you maintain its health for a long period of time not just fight week not just start eating organic and green fight week when you start cutting weight or two three weeks beforehand it has to be before training camp even starts you have to be eating a lot of food the proper food at the right times consistently get your body weight down to a you know a a your body mass down to a a solid ratio somewhere around that 10% range if you're a male mixed martial artist for females anywhere between 18 20% let's say what if guys dip below 10% is that dangerous it's not but that's really for competition time because like with with lent and all my all my male athletes I try and keep them right around 10% the bigger guys maybe we get a little closer to 12% the ler guys the leaner guys maybe you know between 8 and 10 but right around 10 is the sweet spot so we keep them around 10 that means they have weight to work off because they need that for the first few phases when I work with training camps and we break the training camp down in the multiple 3-we phases so we can actually go through the proper training protocols and then Peak towards the very end so we can deal with the rigors of the training the bumps the bruises the bangs the slams we have the extra body fat to kind of insulate us so we can keep our joints and ligament strong and pliable um so body extra body F actually does that it does absolutely it does it's just another layer of insulation when you're constantly grinding on guys and being you know wrenched against the wall and picked up and slammed you know 50 times because you're drilling whatever move you need that little bit of insulation
the leaner you get the drier your joints get the more susceptible to injury you become is that a scientific fact like your joints get drier when you're leaner when you're leaner absolutely huh how does that work I mean where is there fat in between your joints I'm not going to I don't think I can speak intelligently enough to break down the the true science of it but it's something that certainly remains um I know when I was a powerlifter we would increase our body fat in order to increase leverage points within our joints mhm so you can have um you know when I was a powerlifter I would incre intentionally increase my body fat to like you know 15 to 18% and my numbers would absolutely go through the roof I would get less joint pain less injuries so call it you know bro science if some people like to throw that ter around there but you just feel better feel stronger and the leaner you get specifically when you start heading into the peaking phase which is now mild dehydration as we get closer the fight week sets in the entire body becomes drier so there's less elasticity within the muscles you're more susceptible to those um injuries overuse injuries and such Bro Science is a a very tricky word right it's yeah absolutely it's [ __ ] it's it's very limiting like they they hit you with that Bro Science and they got you as if it's an accusation but I don't it's almost a it's a it means experience unless you're just throwing [ __ ] at the wall but there's a lot of throwing [ __ ] at the wall too I think more more than experience you know there's certain like things that you would say maybe would be Bro Science that turned out to be like legit like um things along the lines like we want to talk about experience things like ancient training methods that have turned out to be the right way to do it like all those old school Rocky methods remember when Rocky was training in Siberia and he was running through the snow and dragging logs a lot of times people would if it wasn't for all the data that we have now people would consider that kind of Bro Science cuz that's like you know oh you don't [ __ ] have to chop logs you dummy actually it's a really good way to exercise absolutely you know but for the longest time most people thought no you had to use a nautilus machine and you
had to [ __ ] you know do everything Drago with the [ __ ] heart monitors and all that stuff the computer's hooked up to them but Bro Science is a nice way that can shut you down and make you look stupid I know and it's [ __ ] pisses me off cuz I I get this [ __ ] all the time you know everyone's I you're a bro I'm a bro even a bro like you could call someone a bro and you limit their any any anything that they have to say anything they have to say about culture anything they have to say about Society any opinions any thoughts any philosophies they might have you're a bro you're a bro and that's I will wear that proudly but it's we're evidence-based so we can say evidence-based Bro Science that you know we don't do anything unless it's been proven if we have a concept for an idea and I you know obviously in my office I have a team that works with me so it's not just me and the black and gold shirt running around I have a team I have you know employees that have um degrees Masters in exercise physiology I registered dietitians on staff so it's a complete team within the Dolce Diet that puts this information out there and looks after the athletes so it's not just me running around with my stopwatch and my clipboard handing people bottles of water so it truly is a scientific process but it's also based upon the experience and I've been doing this for 25 years you know since [ __ ] 93 professionally getting paid to do this and I have tremendous amounts of data I have almost all the data I've ever had collected on athletes and and students and clients that I've work with anecdotal data as well athletes telling you how good they feel after what makes them feel bad yep what did they eat today what did they wait to they what were their bowel movements what was their training systems like when did they get sick what's their sense of humor like I mean I speak with the wives I speak with the husbands I speak with the coaches I speak with the training Partners I know everything about the athlete the time they wake up the time they have that bow movement all the way through the day I know the intensity of the training I know the volume of the training I know the amount of rounds that they put in I know their you know caloric breakdown I know their lean mass
ratio often times I know what their blood work looks like we have a lot of data and based upon this data is how we come up with our methodology and how we continue to evolve because every time I mean it's like every week you see me at the UFC's quite often well that's not just I'm not throwing [ __ ] at the wall I'm taking what I did on Friday Saturday of that week and on Sunday I'm looking at the numbers and I'm retooling it because Monday I'm going to another fight week somewhere and we're continuing to evolve this process as we move forward so we it's it's evidence-based science scientific principles that's also battle tested and proven viable with experience because there's a lot of science out there that you know the the guys in the suits and the lab coach they're going to point to and say that's the way to do it but they've never actually done it in the human element they've never actually seen it work they just sit in the classroom and they talk about it and they pontificate on it but it's never truly been proven in the real world and that's what we do also so we have the benefit of that plus we have the benefit of all the scientific um evidence that's that that's out there also and that's kind of what we R roll into this also the stakes in MMA are so much higher than the stakes in any other sport when it comes to proven Concepts in the real world in quotes because the real world in MMA your [ __ ] Consciousness is on the line your health is on the line your body is getting get hit by things that would ordinarily like if you were in uh any sort of a real life situation and someone kicked you in the head that person would go to jail meanwhile in this scenario they're rewarded for being able to kick you in the head bonus they get a [ __ ] head kick bonus yeah they get a KO of the night well that's it's performance of the night now but um do you think in this is a really touchy subject but I think it's an important one to bring up do you think that a lot of our ideas about what's physically possible when it comes to training and when it comes to fighting are distorted because of performance-enhancing drugs absolutely absolutely I think performance-enhancing drug drugs have set the bar in all Sports in in culture whether it's it's looking at the movies
looking at the magazine cover Track and Field track and field everywhere golf NASCAR anywhere you look that there's money on the line where you get rewarded for performance there's some sort of ancillary you know good or or you know commodity being used or purchased or consumed to improve your performance spec it's very evident in the world of mix marshal arts because these guys and girls are getting punched and kicked in the head and they're losing Consciousness and they're breaking bones and getting limb torn off so now you have these Advanced superhumans out there able to you know rip joints and and punch brains and do all these other things so it it does I I think the odds um are much greater you know for the risk is certainly much greater for anybody who competes yeah that's where I I took exception to a lot of people saying like who cares if someone juices you know I don't give a [ __ ] I'm going to kick their ass anyway you know like Chris Weidman said that about vtor Belford and I appreciate the fact that he thinks that way cuz he's a champion and that's how a champion feels but the reality is there are punches that can be landed when you are on EPO and test and Jack to the [ __ ] gills and whatever the [ __ ] else you're doing that you wouldn't have the energy to land in a normal scenario like it's very rare that a guy can do like what TJ Dillashaw does and go balls the walls for five [ __ ] rounds TJ can do it as a natural athlete because he's he got a [ __ ] tireless work ethic he's unbelievably dedicated and focused and he's 145 lbs yeah that's another big factor huge the difference between that and a guy like over yeah who Alistar over came into the UFC against Brock Lesnar he was 265 shredded to the tits looked like a [ __ ] superhero out of a comic book pissed hot and has never been the same guy again yeah and that's the reality is now he's being tested he shrunk he lost body mass his I mean it just seems to affect a guy's chin as well the the the thing about taking performance-enhancing drugs is it it doesn't just seem to affect your cardio but it seems to also affect your ability to take a shot yeah we saw that in Mark hunt versus Bigfoot yeah Bigfoot Silva and Mark hunt had one of the greatest heavyweight fights ever as far as like
from a fans perspective like watching an entertaining fight what a [ __ ] War these guys went to war and Bigfoot absorbed everything that Mark hunt hit him with one of the greatest knockout artists in the history of kickboxing and in MMA Mark Hunt's awesome he's a monster bigfoot absorbed it they tested him after the fight and he had apparently he tested before the fight thought that was it I don't have to worry about this anymore and they jacked him with a [ __ ] giant hit like they took a [ __ ] big gulp full of test and just shoved it right in his ass and he was just [ __ ] just completely Juiced up when he fought his his levels were through the roof after the fight yeah and because of that he was able to absorb I mean I'm speculating as to why he was able to absorb those shots but I've got to think that it has something to do with it it definitely increases aggression it increases tenacity it brings out that Killer Instinct and maybe an athlete in that state they can walk through punches more because they have more of that Primal urge and Instinct and those elevated hormones pumping through their body cuz that's really what testosterone does and God knows what else is out there I don't even think we're aware in this room of all the drugs and performance enhancers that are truly out there and these you know Evil Geniuses around the world are creating and sticking into the athletes and and putting them back out there to see what the effect is no and Bigfoot got popped on a simple urine test which is quite fascinating because the UFC has taken a lot of flak about their uh stance on performance-enhancing drugs and people's like oh it's just lip service UFC doesn't give a [ __ ] this is how much the UFC gives a [ __ ] they've tested all of their best athletes with blood tests in a way that has [ __ ] up a lot of performances yeah like they have stepped in and it costs more than $40,000 every time they do this so every single athlete they're doing this outside of the jurisdiction of the athletic commissions so the athletic commissions has their own specific protocol for how they test a fighter then the UFC steps in and brings in like the the highest most stringent Olympic testing that they can find they bring in the best guys then not only that they
have a chain of command they have a chain of uh evidence rather of um uh possession where like say if you if Mike Dolce comes to the gym and you test Jamie you [ __ ] carry that [ __ ] on a plane to wherever the lab is like you have it in your possession it never leaves you when you take a [ __ ] that [ __ ] suitcase sits right in front of you nobody can come into your hotel room grab it no it goes directly in from your hands to the lab and they have they are very very very specific about that the reason being is because there's no Shenanigans with these blood tests and because of that a guy like chel Sunny got popped for EPO elevated levels of test human growth hormone all this I mean he's got he's been popped for a bunch of different things the actually the elevated test was the urine thing but when they got him with the blood they they found him with all they got him with some anti some thing that they use for fertility they he was uh he was on Clomid which is what you uh you take when they take you off of human growth hormone or uh testosterone to try to restart your body system like it's it's everyone's a [ __ ] chemical Factory it's crazy it's crazy it's not everyone obviously it's some it's some and I think it's a smaller percentage than a lot of the Articles and interviews come out with you know a lot of athletes oh there's 90% of the guys says everybody uses that's what he one of his famous statements after he got caught he's like everyone's using in Camp everyone it depends on which camp he's talking about you know cuz there's I I know that there's there's a ton of great athletes out there Ronda Rousey's one of them you know lifelong drug free athlete Johnny Hendricks is one of them Nick Lin is one of themen BJ Penn is one of them um there's you John Fitch John Fitch is one of them so there's a huge list of top tier athletes that are clean and lifelong clean and we have no reason to suspect otherwise and they beat the piss out of a lot of the PED users mhm but you know so the guys and girls that are using Peds maybe they wouldn't be a top five top 10 top 20 maybe they wouldn't even make it into the UFC if not for some sort of enhancement I would love to go back to Pride The Pride days I'm a huge Pride fan don't get me wrong some of my greatest moments as a fan as an
MMA fan watching the just the best fights of Pride Fedor versus crocop where he's just absorbing every shot crocop hits him with and plowing forward and Blasting him Fedor beat crocop in a [ __ ] kickboxing bout so a lot of people don't realize and Fedor was the first guy that ever made want to be fat he made fat sexy didn't he bald bastard beating the [ __ ] out of everybody with this floppy gut you know and I'm like this [ __ ] he was kicking everybody's ass and he looks like he looks like he just stepped out of his [ __ ] station wagon and waddled onto the beach you know to play volleyball with some friends well so he was he was he was much bigger actually early in his career and then as he got older he lost a lot of body uh Mass a lot of muscle mass but man I would love to see what those guys were actually doing and in Pride I mean that's almost it's almost a gentleman's agreement that you're agreeing to compete on drugs because that was in the contracts you know when we saw that pretty recently and I had known some guys back in the day that had said that's in the contract like you [ __ ] kidding me well enson came on the podcast he ran it off to us insanity but in that case if you're going to sign that contract and then you're loaded up to the gills I'm not going to sit here and judge morally because you're agreeing to those rules right it's like kicks to the face on the ground okay if you're going to agree to it you know but in the UFC here where there's unified rules you know it's a whole another b ball game well when Jason Chambers was uh training a 10th Planet he went over he was fighting in Japan I won't even say the organization but they they wanted him to fight at 185 and Jason's like I walk around like 170 like what the [ __ ] are you talking about like I want to fight 155 like no no no no no you're going to get on steroid much ler wow they wanted him to get on roids they literally told him to get on roids Japanese legal over there I mean is that just culturally it's not an issue I don't think they give a [ __ ] about that they just looked at him you know Jason's a handsome bastard and they they say like this [ __ ] Beautiful Bastard we need some muscles on this [ __ ] to sell sell sell sell you know you
can't have a guy looking like Nick Diaz kicking everybody's ass with a normal athlete looking body you want a Kevin randan looking [ __ ] Jason Chambers with Kevin randl's muscles Jesus Christ how much can we sell that put that guy on a [ __ ] cover put a put a banana where his dick is stuff in his underwear so we super athlete super yeah um but they literally told him I mean from his voice to my ears they told him and we were friends we still are friends he they told him to do steroids holy [ __ ] so they do I mean and there was always a speculation like we would look at vanderlay and we'd go how how do you how how how are you built like that how is that how can a guy be built like that and go to war for 10 minutes a 10-minute round and just never get tired yeah like how is that possible it's not right it's very rare those are the outliers that are able to look like that and compete like that and I've spent some time with Brian Stan and he was telling the story about how when he went to Japan and fought is it Japan or China and fought vanderlay and he's like I'm flying on the flight I'm sucked out I'm dehydrated I'm cutting weight and I show up and I see vanderlay and he is just [ __ ] jacked and veiny and like smiling and just spitting pissing vinegar and he's like that's when I knew I knew he was [ __ ] gas up and you know and then you go out there and the fight goes how it is and it was they got fight at performance at night fight night what you know and vanderlay had a very good chin on that night because Stan Dr you know hit him with big shots and back and forth it went and unfortunately Stan was the the guy to fall down first yeah it is that thing your your ability to absorb punishment actually changes dependent upon what you're on it seems to be it seems to be I mean we're we're talking we're kind of speculating obviously we don't have the evidence in front of us bro signs yeah we're Bro Science [ __ ] out of this well Stan recently accused Kung Lee of being on performance-enhancing drugs after he uh fought Michael bisbing yeah and that's you know no evidence no evidence other than a photo but that photo yeah was pretty [ __ ] interesting it well it's interesting because kungle was is 40 but you know in
kung's defense he said that he had had a series of aggravating injuries and this was the first camp where he had had surgery he fixed up all those injuries and he went on a pretty rigorous strength and conditioning regime sure for that for that training camp like you can't definitely say that he was on something and he didn't T piss hot and that's it so I mean I don't know then it's it's a tough call because then we're just kind of being haters like oh look at that dude he looks [ __ ] great at 40 and like well I don't look that good so he must be on juice and there's that you know human element to it but if he doesn't piss hot I mean how can we accuse and blame you know him of doing something wrong when he didn't and it didn't affect his performance in a positive manner anyway because bisbing went out there and his ass beat his ass God damn Bisping looked good in that fight that was the best version of Bisping we've ever seen Bisping is a tenacious [ __ ] he's a mean [ __ ] he's just tenacious as [ __ ] man he's just still in the mix still you know still believing that one day he's going to be the champion he's just going to keep [ __ ] chipping away he gets beat he comes back you know you know and in his defense everyone that's beaten him has essentially been popped for steroids yeah Dan Henderson who knocked him out wasn't pop for steroids but he was on a legal version of testosterone replacement therapy before they outlawed that stuff yeah which I think is a good thing to Outlaw and this is coming from a person who takes testosterone I'm I'm 47 years old I take testosterone every week I take a a I used to take a cream now I take a shot it seems to last longer seems to work better but why do I do it first of all cuz I'm not competing against anybody and it makes me feel better um it work my body works better when I take it mean that's what testone replacement is all about but when it comes to professional athletes doing it man it's very tricky because on one side an athlete can take it and it can make them feel better and they can perform better when their career would be over like you take a guy like a Roger Clemens and I don't know whether or not Roger Clemens did anything but most people believe he did and he's a baseball
player and then deep into his 40s all of a sudden the [ __ ] he's still throwing 95 mph fast balls and he looks fantastic and he's built like a brick [ __ ] house what's going on there well most likely he got on hormone replacement so the idea being that when you're getting older you're getting wiser and you have accumulated all this experience and all this knowledge but your body does not perform the way it did when you were younger it just doesn't the hormones they go away your body's preparing for death I mean essentially that's what's going on but it isn't [ __ ] because it's kind of the way the world works you know I mean we we're only here for a short amount of time otherwise [ __ ] Aristotle be sitting right there you know he'd still be around love to hear him on this show he'd probably be a boring bastard I don't understand his language either yeah no I'd love to hear him just kidding but you know you know what I'm saying it's like everyone has their time and when you're and this is obviously hypocritical coming from me because I just admitted that I did take testosterone but when you're a fighter there's there's the guys that they've gone through all this experience their body has started to fade off and then they get on it and then boom all of a sudden they're World beaters the best example is vtor Right vtor Belford I maintain that trt vtor was one of the most spectacular fighters in the history of fighting his knockout of ruk Luke rockold his knockout of Bisping I mean his knockout of Dan Henderson I mean he was a [ __ ] Destroyer when he was on test yeah he would show up with muscles on his [ __ ] eyebrows I mean literally he he had muscles on his gums his whole body looked like a muscle he was insane and he was so aggressive and so confident it was a completely different vtor than the vtor that fought like sakuraba when he fought in Pride which was a decade earlier yeah I mean it's crazy to see something like that happen yeah and on one one hand I love it one hand I want to see vtor fight like that I want to see a destroyer I'm a guy who likes watching entertaining fights I like watching spectacular performances but on another hand I want to see I want to see someone fighting someone where it's just will and determination and and
and discipline and focus and you you you work towards something and then you achieve it and you do it just by hard work sure I don't want it to be a goddamn Pharmacy competition yeah you know and that's highle Sports it is quite that and kind of a moral conversation let's let's skew this a little bit so you look at like stem cell research now is that a performance enhancer yeah it's going to be reattaching an a from somebody else is that a performance enhancer sure it can be right I mean well it it certainly can fix a bad body and that will enhance the performance of that person can be it's an interesting and I've heard vtor say this before and I'm not defending I'm just did he say that yeah yeah performance enhancing is that I think he was making a reference to widman who had gone over to Germany I believe and had some sort of Reen I don't know exact I well I've had that he's wrong when it comes to that doesn't enhance your performance it just makes your inflammation go down okay I mean Weidman has mangled knees I mean he's had arthritis in his knees so bad that he can't even get his foot to touch his butt like he lift his heel up like this like I'm doing sitting right here y he can't he can't do that he couldn't get his heel to touch his ass his knees are so arthritic and yet he still beat Anderson Silva twice like that with those knees with those knees yeah cuz he's a [ __ ] monster Wildman's a monster he's not even 30 yeah he's a monster um but what he did was not it's not going to make him like I mean it'll make his knees work better but that just there'll be like normal knees it's not like he's going to get to a point where he has like you know like when you saw vitor's muscles that [ __ ] wasn't normal son that was above average yeah like an average 16-year-old kid who works out you know once or twice a week has better knees than the middleweight champion of the world that's the point is is the actual pliability of his joints itself I mean does that increase a mechanical advantage when the knees work better yeah but it only makes it like a normal person it's not like you know what you can get if you're tested up to the Gill so I don't see how you can make that comparison ethically and where is the where's the line on medical intervention
mhm to Performance enhancement or supplementation supplementation's a good one cuz that's I mean creatine well I remember be that's simple BJ was [ __ ] on um and I'm a huge BJ pen fan will be to the day I die but BJ was [ __ ] all over GSP you know hey you're taking a test you know you're taking GH tell the truth what's going on meanwhile you watch BJ working out and he had a [ __ ] he had a counter filled with these different supplements there's a bunch of [ __ ] that they would give him after every uh every meal it was all legal it was all like you know glutamine and things along those lines and you know fish oil and all these different various supplements but those various supplements it's that's not food that's food that has been broken down and they've isolated very specific components that they've shown to enhance performance so you're taking performance enhancing supplements when you're taking anything I mean any the reason why you take multi-minerals and multivitamins is you want to enhance the performance your body period mean that that is what's going on it's just going on at a an edge level as opposed to a jump yeah like when you're tested up like vtor tested they caught him um before this is what made them cancel um testosterone replacement in Nevada I mean they had already had issues with it but they started testing guys um off like just randomly like come here like pee in that cup what that's how they got over vtor tested uh an average person it's like an average male is 300 to like 800 is like a high level vtor was, 1475 that's insane it doesn't exist in nature it just doesn't exist in nature and that was one of the reasons why they were like okay and this is not Idol speculation coming from me by the way this is me talking to people that are in the know people that were actually there the whole conversation that went down I was privy to a lot and it was very tricky cuz they you have to find out what what's ethical I mean they allowed in the first place because doctors were saying my client has low testosterone and he has an issue gon adism or whatever hyperon aism whatever the issue is my client has low testosterone um I as a doctor believe that he has a medical issue that needs to be address we're going to supplement his
testosterone so the athletic commissions allowed this but they didn't totally understand what they were allowing because they didn't know that you could take testosterone and if you took testosterone and then got off testosterone you're natural levels crash so then you show up at the doctor and you say hey man test me I feel pretty weak and the doctor says you have low testosterone I'm going to write you a prescription for testosterone then you bring that to the athletic commission my doctors allowed me to take testosterone here's my blood work and they go all right it seems pretty good go ahead take it I mean that was going on that's what happened with Nate marquart that's what happened with a lot of people um that was the issue with uh when Nate marquart was pulled out of his fight with Rick story at the very last minute is because the Pennsylvania athletic commission tested him and he was jacked through the roof and they were like what you do what you're doing is dangerous what was his number do you remember I don't remember so I won't say it but it was vesque it was astronomical it was very high it was not a number that exists in nature and that's the issue is that these guys were same as Mark hunt it was not a number that exists in nature that these guys were taking Hyper levels of testosterone when they give you testosterone unless you are going to to the doctor and that doctor is the only one who administers testosterone and they do it right in front of you you can you could put as much in as you want sure you know if if Mike Dolce gets a prescription for testosterone and you go to your doctor your doctor's going to give you a [ __ ] month supply and you could say I want to put the whole month in right now see what's up boom look out and then you're just [ __ ] running through walls like the thing from the Fantastic Four just it's it's very weird you know it's it's very it sh I mean like if you're on anything else if you are on any other kind of medication they'll give you you know you take two pills in the morning you take two pills at night and here's here's your pills take those pills y but you could just decide to throw the whole bottle down your throat if you're [ __ ] nuts like the only way you could prevent that with testosterone is by
restricting access and making that access only through that medical provider that does it you know right there where no everyone knows and so they decided to just stop the testosterone replacement there was no way they could regulate it there was too many ethical concerns there was too many concerns but but the thing is they started it and they let these people get on it and then they got them off of it and when you get people off of it their whole endocrine system just crashes and there was no transition period none you need a long transition period like this vtor widman fight is going to be spectacularly interesting from that perspective because vitor's previous performances have been some of the best performances I've ever seen in all my years of watching MMA he just looked fantastic and if there was no concern whatsoever if uh there was no issue with testosterone he wasn't on anything he was just [ __ ] training like a wild man and putting in you know if he was younger and this was all going on if he didn't have like a noticeable dip and rise and change of his body anatomy he would be like one of the most heralded contenders ever but everybody looks at him sideways yeah even to this day like Weidman is a huge favorite coming into this fight I mean I don't know what the numbers are but I I remember the last time I looked at it was it was a pretty heavy favorite maybe you should look it up Jamie find out what Chris Weidman over vtor Belford is if you look at how vtor destroyed Dan Henderson you look at how he destroyed Luke rockhold you look at how he destroyed bis Bing you would say how could anybody be a favorite over this guy and the reason is is because of the testosterone sure it's 100% no one wants to bring it up I mean the UFC is probably upset that I'm talking about it right now you know because they don't like bringing it up like when I do those countdown shows we don't talk about testosterone I would like to I would like to talk about it I would like to bring in experts I would like to I would like to talk to a guy like you I'd like to talk to an endocrinologist I'd like to say what what what is the recovery process how can a man bring his natural levels back up to where vtor was you know is it possible that's going to be difficult not knowing what his blood
work or how bad off he was you know going into the trt program he's going to come out worse off well he said he was at 180 that was what he said which is really low and I would believe that knowing a lot of the Brazilians a lot of those kids get on in their early teens because it's a social medicine over there you walk into a gym and that's what the coach hands them and I I I've heard the story from dozens of of Brazilians and it's nothing against the culture it's just something that's normal well it's legal then it's legal it's like walking into a GNC and getting some protein powder yeah it's not like it is over here when it's over here you got to bet get your you know if you're going to go to a gym and become a bodybuilder and you want to get testosterone or steroids you're going to have to do dealings with some shady people yeah Brazil you go to the pharmacy you go in and you get it done properly but unfortunately you open at 4 to one that's almost 5 to one now 5 to one that's big over VOR the vtor that destroyed Dan Henderson the first round the vtor that wheel kicked Luke rockold into Oblivion and someone's a 5 to1 favorite over him that's incredible and that's because of that yeah it's amazing everyone remembers vtor when he fought uh Randy when he was 240 lbs and looked like a lion absolutely and those are the days I think that have caught up with him and yeah caused the issue well that was back when he was training with uh his his friend Curtis who is his uh bodybuilder friend who's dead now guy died from from steroids oh that's right I remember that we used to call him garden hoses cuz uh we would uh work out with this guy he would be at the gym and he had garden hoses for veins I mean he would stand there like this and they were just garden hoses all over his body he was so big he was so big you couldn't believe that he was a human being it's uh guys like that from the the '90s era bodybuilding days they're all [ __ ] dying now yeah I've been seeing that Mike marzo just died died yeah crazy Nasser that big uh some he's dead he died those guys were just just redlining the body the capabilities when the sport so we think of bodybuilding like the the golden erors like the Arnold Schwarzenegger the Franco Columbo the Pumping Iron days and the bodies didn't
change that much 70s to 80s they were kind of similar and then the early 90s that's when Dorian Yates came and just exploded onto the scene then Ronnie Coleman followed up in these 260 lb Mass monsters 56 56 [ __ ] insanely crazy ripped 3% body fat garden hoses running everywhere and it's wasn't as much from what I I understand I've been working on a a mass building strength building book now so I've been researching more the bodybuilding side and I'm coming across all this information where they're talking now about it it was like insulin and igf-1 and like growth hormone when those things came into play in those early 90s that's when the bodies changed but now you see what's happening 15 20 years later these guys in their 40s and 50s are dropping dead of terrible terrible conditions yeah almost directly related to that where you see guys like Arnold and Franco you know still walking around knocking on the door of 70s Arnold's back on the spike you seen those muscles yeah he's pretty [ __ ] big now that Hollywood money man come on now right Maria took everything I have to get bigger there you go yeah um he but he is but you know Dorian in all fairness is fine too right now yeah right now you know and that's the thing and he seems like a smarter guy just knowing a little bit actually when we were in Birmingham I swung by Jim I didn't get a chance to meet him it was historic I want to meet that guy [ __ ] crazy but we'll see and hopefully you know you don't want to see anything bad happen anybody but it's you know those guys are like on Death Watch to a degree what um what fails when they do that it what fails in their body what fails all these guys it seems to be heart related their hearts are just exploding on them they're enlarged for starters and then they're just some sort of shutdown breakdown and they're just exploding for lack of a a more technical term um but it's almost all cardiac related like that's what matazo he was waiting for a heart transplant oh my God he wasn't even 50 years old yet wow you know he's he's a Boston guy right yeah yeah yeah I remember when I was just a kid at that time and that's I was a follow and I was watching these guys like you know that's what I wanted to be and I was like well maybe a couple of them so naive take steroids but like now
he's he's using muscle tech and he's using EAS creatine and that's I believe that well never Flex wheeler and flex had a [ __ ] kidney transplant he did yes um don't quote me on the kidney transplant but he had kidney failure and that's what took him out of bodybuilding at his absolute prime I'm 90% sure was it is it transpant but isn't that the kidney thing due to cutting weight they they would dehydrate the [ __ ] out of themselves massive prescription diuretics so it's cutting weight is one thing using a very powerful pharmaceutical diuretic that's like water and [ __ ] you know rubbing alcohol as far as you know putting that into your body um and that's what like Mohammad benaziza and I think Andreas muner some of these famous older bodybuilders were just huge into those prescription diuretics and they just [ __ ] blow their body Up From the Inside Out look amazing on the outside and then guys like Paul delette you know I'm kind of really you know going back 20 years in my remembrances of bodybuilding I remember these guys collapsing and just thinking like oh you know they didn't they look like such specimens why are they so unhealthy and that's really I think what turned me into what I am today so I saw that you know and take my story back even farther I I touched on it you know years ago where I saw my father collapse massive stroke I 8-year-old kid and like he was like really in shape he was a third red horse trainer and he just [ __ ] had a massive stroke and I was like how the fu like spun how is this even possible and then all the doctor's visits and all this [ __ ] for years well he was burning his candle at both ends [ __ ] drinking coffee in the morning not eating till late at night working like 16 20 hour days really you know hard hard working days you know sitting back kicking some beers and whatnot burnt his body out from the inside family history of heart disease hypertension didn't take care of himself boom fast forward I see this this bodybuilding [ __ ] and it really fascinated me I was fascinated as a as a boy all the way up through it was fascinated and as I continued and I was 280lb powerlifter at some point brought my body weight all the way up my mid-20s 280 lbs and uh one day I go to the
doctor for a basic um Health test Wellness test high cholesterol high blood pressure hypertens sleep apnea get hooked up to a halter monitor had heart palpitations doctor's like what are you doing like I don't [ __ ] know I'm trying to be B you know I'm trying to be arold schwarzeneger over here and she's like yeah this got to change and that's when I I my mind spun I just saw for what it is I pictured my father I was like I got to [ __ ] change this immediately that's when I was performance science-based lots of supplements and lots of micronutrients and you know protein ratio and all that that [ __ ] that bodybuilding [ __ ] and then spun it and that's when I became this [ __ ] organic like pseudo hippie Health longevity dude and when I focused on that I lost 110 lbs you know through my own personal experience and but I was always working with athletes you know even like when since I was 17 years old for so my training business I was always working with athletes and I took that performance side and I went to the longevity side and what I saw is once we all started focusing on longevity protocols as opposed to Performance protocols everybody's performance went through the roof they're lean Mash So when you say uh longevity protocols what do what do you mean specifically I mean I mean real food getting rid of all the supplements getting rid of all the pseudo science getting back to what's most natural you know and I use the term Earth grown nutrients because I used to say Whole Foods and people thought that meant go shopping at the supermarket no eating food from the planet that was like really the first step for me and I don't care as much about micronutrient ratios and weighing because I used to weigh my food and I used to sit there and I would spend a half hour every night and program all my meals and come up with all these different you know training cycles and I was you know that dude that insane dude about making these performance enhancements fin this is [ __ ] ridiculous just need to focus on eating real food extremely nutrient-dense foods from the planets fresh as possible as live as possible and all the science that's out there shows that that's the healthier way and all these different cultures that eat
like that tend to be much healthier perform at a higher level for a much longer period of time longer age you know uh um longer lifespan and a high utility and that's really the difference not only do they live longer they have a very high utility while they're living longer 50 60 80 90 100 plus years old where they're still able to go out fish swim do all these different things that's what really turned my mind and this is back [ __ ] 15 probably 15 years ago now um and then I started implementing that with my athletes whether it's the powerlifters the wrestlers or the Grapplers and then you know early 2000s it was the nhb athletes before MMA that's like kind of how I got the start into uh you know the MMA world was through team henzo Gracie on the East Coast guys like Kurt pelo and Dante Rivera when when they were fighting for that ring of combat you know nhb you know titles and whatnot focused on you know those guys and it was all real fots and it was like everyone's like what do you mean I don't have to take my my cyto Sport and my protein powder and pop all these [ __ ] pills I was like no you know it was like almost like a leap of faith it for a while for a lot of athletes to buy into like you mean I have to eat salads and fruit and make a smoothie and just like you know now that we talk about and the culture is a little more advanced I think the science is out there and it's it's been proven for you know a decade plus that people realize well that's the better way to go now but going back you know 10 15 years ago that was like everybody was living out of [ __ ] jugs you know protein patterns and GNC's and all that [ __ ] that was the big rage in the late 90s all the way into the early 2000s and such so spun that switched it focused on the real foods and that's what we've been doing with the athlet since so going back to the longevity when I work with an athlete like a Thiago Alves or Ronda Rousey or or whoever else my goal is not for them to win a world title my goal is not about their weigh-ins my goal is not about really anything sport related within the next 5 years my goal is for them to be 120 years old healthy fresh vibrant showing their great great grandkid photos of back when they won the UFC World title and all these great times think that's possible 12 years old
is that really has that ever been done it's possible now if we focus on it now because we're talking that's 80 years from now and with the medical advancements that are happening with the way science is continuing to evolve it's possible if we don't [ __ ] it up early and this is where I talk to the athletes about the weight cutting starts 52 weeks beforehand if we don't [ __ ] everything up now science is going to advance to the point to keep us healthier longer offset some of these issues at a later stage of Life instead of having a Mike matazo you need a [ __ ] heart transplant when you're 40 instead of well maybe when you're 80 it slowly starts to give out because you've eaten [ __ ] great highly nutrient-dense Foods your entire life you've been resting your body completely not burning your nervous system out you're training intelligently enough to stimulate progress but not enough to shut anything down and break anything down you're living a rewarding happy life surrounding yourself with positive people and that's something that you talk about here all the time and that's almost the most important aspect is being a very well adjusted happy positive individual and this is something that when I work with athletes a lot of people think ah this just this this [ __ ] diet dude or I'm just making eggs for handing my athletes water I think that's the least of what I do the most of what I do is I try and get inside the athletes head and help them focus on excuse me focus on their life and what they what they want out of their life setting up goals and helping them develop action steps and eliminating this negative energy around them so they can truly realize their full potential and that's you know I call we put a a bubble of positivity around the athlete especially as we get closer to the competition because that's when it's most important but it's really we try and keep that around them their entire life give them the tools teach them the lessons now that they can carry on so will we all live to 120 I don't know but I've read scientific research that assumes or believes that there's humans being born right now on the planet right now that will exceed 200 years old now will that happen who [ __ ] knows Jamie look at him it could
be it actually could be he's [ __ ] maybe he [ __ ] he's gone he's got to get more [ __ ] oh that there you go yeah um but you you you bring up some really important points about stress and about surrounding yourself with positive things and positive energy you can tell the difference like if you have some bad [ __ ] in your life you have some conflict you'll feel bad about that conflict you feel and the key is to resolve that stuff as much as possible and then you know figure out a way to make peace with the rest of it and move on with your life and just the less you put out battling it the better you'll feel about it just you know when I was younger I would argue with people about everything I was constantly involved in conflict and then I realized as I got older the less conflict I have the better I feel and the more I resolve conflict and not not not get in it it's better for everybody it's better for that person it's better for me there's certain [ __ ] that's unavoidable but like all these people that are running around suing people all the time those are the [ __ ] that die of heart attack absolutely those are the [ __ ] that have stress because they're constantly involved in battle and not the right kind of battle either not like a competition you know but just trying to lash out and and then dealing with people lashing out at you and and all your day is spent thinking about it and if he says this I'm going to say that and then if she says that I'm going to tell her what the [ __ ] is up and that kind of [ __ ] wears on you man you're grinding your gears all day eats you alive and people don't think of it you think you don't think of that as being a stress like they think of stress as being bills they think of stress as being traffic no stress is every all those things are stress relationships friendships work conflict when you're at work all day and you hate your job that's stress that is stress that grinds on you that feeling like when you get out of work at the end of the day and you have that weight lifting off your shoulders that means you're in a bad job you got to figure out a way where you don't have that if it's possible if it's possible find that way that was me 10 years ago I was a municipal tax assessor
in the state of New Jersey amazing it was the just saying all those things together make me want to [ __ ] jump off a roof dude on Friday I would literally get ressed on Friday because I knew Monday was coming yeah I know that feeling it [ __ ] it it was goddamn hell but I was making a shitload of money my mom was so proud of me I had the 401K and the 6 weeks off vacation I was living quote the American dream I [ __ ] hated myself God damn I sat around I remember this was the turning point for me I sat around a boardroom table and I was a lot younger than my closest peer and I'm looking at all these older dudes and we're all sitting there in suits and like we're so [ __ ] important you know being those [ __ ] and they're all overweight they're all they all have red faces and they're all talking talking about how they're going to [ __ ] you know sneak off to the bar before they go home because they don't want to deal with the [ __ ] family and the kids and all the [ __ ] [ __ ] I got to get the [ __ ] out of here I have to get the [ __ ] out of here or I'm going to [ __ ] die like this I got to change my life and that's what we did and I kind of threw that away resigned from the position took the job as the strength coach Team Quest up in Portland Oregon moved across the country for [ __ ] minimum wage to clean toilets and left that job behind and I [ __ ] loved it I loved scrubbing disgusting shitty gym mats at 5:00 in the morning and not sitting in a beautiful corner office you know for x amount of dollars per year because I was I was doing what I loved and I gave myself the opportunity and a chance you know to to do something with my life and get rid of the stress I think that's why I'm kind of you know veering off that's what it was talking I was so stressed out yeah and I was riding my bike [ __ ] I remember it was freezing cold [ __ ] raining and I'm riding my [ __ ] stupid bike because we only had one vehicle and my wife had to go [ __ ] work I'm riding my [ __ ] bike six miles to the gym and I [ __ ] loved it it was such a pure crisp cold morning and I was just so alive in life you know and it was everything was brand new again I was in my you know mid 20s at that point mid- later 20s at that point it's [ __ ] cool [ __ ]
[Laughter] man oh yeah man Taking Chances and and branching out on your own when it works out and rewards you it lets you know that the Universe rewards risk it rewards calculated risk and passion it really does and if you if you don't live your life like that you're living your life afraid of risk you're God man you're going to you're not going to get any reward either you're just going to be stuck you're going to be stuck in this Bland boring ass grinding existence and then it's over then it's over yeah it's not like it lasts forever that's the number one thing everybody wants to stay St safe and comfortable yeah [ __ ] this doesn't last this is not going to last you got to be uncomfort I'm uncomfortable all the [ __ ] time I don't like 90 ship 90% of what I do I don't like in some ways you know whether it's the exercise or writing or even performing or but just but I I hate editing my sh I just had to edit my comedy special today I [ __ ] hate staring at myself I don't like it it's uncomfortable you got to do [ __ ] that's uncomfortable you get over it then you you get you don't like certain aspects about it you got to figure out what don't I like about it what's not good what's what can I make better and then you make it better and you keep pushing and working and the more you do that the the more exciting it is the more you you get a little bit of a reward a little bit of juice out accomplishing something then you're on to the next thing but your life is constantly fun it's it's filled with exciting [ __ ] it's things going on all the time you got to assess and move on and move forward and if you don't do that you're just stagnant you're pond water that you can't drink you know you're [ __ ] man that's it waitting the die and what drives you have you ever kind of analyzed like what drives you to get your ass out of bed make yourself uncomfortable yet again on another day that you can just [ __ ] put your feet up and lay by the pool and enjoy the sunshine mental illness that's what driv and there you go that's something's wrong with me there you go but I I don't feel like I ever deserve breaks the only time I ever feel like I have to have a [ __ ] brutal day where I can enjoy television but if my day is brutal enough I like all right [ __ ] you
can sit down and watch a little TV you know that's the only way I'll allow myself those those rewards but if I do do that I can really enjoy it I can really enjoy a nice foot up you know relaxing sit there you know have a have a a cocktail watch some television I can enjoy that but if I don't I can't enjoy it I think a lot of people they're giving themselves rewards all the time but there's no risk and then there's also there's no there's no like sacrifice that led up to that reward and you got to enjoy the sacrifice you got to enjoy the grind you know when I say that 90% of the [ __ ] I do I don't enjoy I don't but I enjoy that I can do it you know like who the [ __ ] wants to lift weights no you want the reward of that lifting weight you the only way you get a body is if you you don't want to do when you get to that third rep you're like I'm good but you're not good stupid you got seven more to go and if you don't do those seven more you're going to feel like a [ __ ] loser when you put those weights down you like I'm a [ __ ] I should have [ __ ] kept going and I stopped you know if you stop you you're missing out on the whole point that is the grind that is the keeping going the the the good kind of grind the working towards something grind it's like people ask me they're like Dolce do you cheat or can I cheat or do you have a cheat day and I always retort why are you going to cheat like have you earned it and that that's the what we use is an earned meal it's not a [ __ ] cheat meal it's not a cheat day it's an earned meal have you earned it and they're like well I don't know well then you haven't like like you when you know when you [ __ ] kick your own ass you're totally spent that's when you reward yourself with your earned TV time or whatever it is your cocktail same thing when it comes to health and fitness and this is goes to the accountability side if you want to be successful you want to set yourself up to succeed well you have to be accountable I can't [ __ ] do it I can't do it for you I wish I could There's 7 billion people on the planet I can't do it I can barely do it for my own self let alone every other [ __ ] person out there and each one of us we are entirely alone 100% we're surrounded
by all this stuff which is just a facade it's all [ __ ] it's here to kind of amuse and entertain and and often distract us but if we're going to be successful it has to be because it comes from the inside that driving force to make it successful so the people that want to cheat on Saturday Friday Saturday Sunday they go to the gym they do their little thing they eat their chicken and rice you know Monday through Friday maybe they're kind of okay they cheat just a little bit here and there they go off menu let's say and then Saturday's my cheat day or Sunday's my cheat day and football's on and what happens Monday they look [ __ ] exactly the same and then they do the same basic workout for the same basic reps and they do that you know the same just the [ __ ] same and they're on that rat wheel so if you really you know talking to the people out there if you really want to break out you really want to be spectacular you really want to start to fulfill your potential you have to make yourself uncomfortable you have to challenge yourself and then you have to earn it so with my athletes with myself our earned meals are maybe once or twice a month and what is an earned meal I don't know maybe it's my wife's birthday maybe you know just going to see a [ __ ] movie or something's coming out and then what is my earned meal my earned meal is typically a little bit more food that I normally [ __ ] love anyway because you know our recipes are [ __ ] delicious I'm not going to eat some [ __ ] Burger outside when I can make a kickass grass-fed [ __ ] burger with baked sweet potato fries I would eat four of those [ __ ] instead of just eating my traditional six or 8 oz one so that would be a basic ear meal no Crispy Cream Donuts oh God I would love to and there the former Dolce would I would [ __ ] I was former DOL former dude 282b DOL you know if once upon a time I was the dude that would I get a whole pizza and I put a half a pound of provolone cheese on top eat that whole [ __ ] half gallon of ice cream big KingSize Snickers bar and something colored to finish it down colored beverages only like high sea what high sea [ __ ] Crush Hawaiian if it was colored it had more calories I was [ __ ] drinking it yeah oh hell
yeah grape soda root beer in the summer and was that a cheat day or was that no that was that was performance science that was me trying to hit 10,000 calories a day so I could squat you know 700 800 you know plus pounds and deadlift you know 6 700 lb that was when I was only goal oriented performance oriented tons of [ __ ] protein powders weight gainers creatine you know zma in those weight gainers like you see those tubs is that just calories and sugar garbage it's all [ __ ] garbage man um unfortunately they're it's all preservatives it's all chemicals it's all coloring it's all additives and it's very little of the nutrition you're actually purchasing it for it's such watered down components of what is on the front label just enough to Le so they can legally put it in there and not get [ __ ] sued and it's a shitload of everything else so your journey to becoming this um MMA Fitness diet Guru you've kind of like changed your own life in the process you've sort of figured out what makes you happy what makes you consistently perform well and in the process you've sort of become this guy by trial and error and education and application and now now here you are in this position where I mean [ __ ] 90% of the guys that I see that are doing well in MMA I see guys with these Dolce Diet shirts on I mean you have so many athletes that that that follow your protocols and you whenever someone is in in trou and they have a hard time cutting weight they come to you how did all this start like how did you become this guy was it through like what you said Kurt pelino and then someone Kurt told other people and that kind of [ __ ] that was that was like 2002 2003 I was working with guys on team henzo gra I was you know started training with under henzo and i' had been a powerlifter for years before that and I was a an amateur wrestler for years before that so I've been cutting weight since I was 13 years old I was a varsity Captain you as a freshman so fouryear you know Varsity Letterman captain into the team and I was just since I was 8 years old father you know [ __ ] massive stroke I dove into bodybuilding and weightlifting at that age and I was just attuned to it I was like honors Sciences biology mathematics and I just had that type of analytical
brain and I would analyze everything and all this [ __ ] so you know won't get too deep into that as I went through I was always cutting weight always trying to get bigger I always trying to get stronger I was rather short had no money family was broke wanted to go to college how the [ __ ] am I going to go poor kid from [ __ ] New Jersey how am I going to go to college only way I could do it was through a scholarship there's no cash mom's working three jobs and there's no heat on in the [ __ ] house so there's no extra money for you know for this kid number three to go to [ __ ] school so and that became my focus I had to focus on that and I had a [ __ ] wrestling team you know love the guys and it made me who I am but we were a procal school I started on the team it was the second year the team was even existence our coaches you know were great dudes but they didn't have the high level experience none of my teammates did how am I going to advance the only one it's not through technique it's not through experience not through grinding you know Steel on steel it's just being in better shape than everybody I had to be that guy and that's the guy that I actually became and that's what really started more of this focus on the strength and conditioning do you work with guys on strength and conditioning as well as working with them with diet like how do you balance that out because I talked to Steve Maxwell about this and Maxwell who's a you know really really well uh respected guy and very very uh knowledgeable guy when it comes to uh strength and conditioning in athletics he believes that you should do all of your strength workouts and your conditioning workouts like kind of building up to a camp and then when you're in Camp the majority of your work should be spent doing the actual sport itself I without knowing his entire protocol I agree you know on principle and what I do and how I work best is not just overseeing the nutrition the diet and the weight cut it's I call it the peaking program and I bake it out into the traditional Western periodization program when I talk about 52 weeks it's a 12month periodized program when I started working with Thiago Alves in 2010 we came up with a seven-year program for him now
unfortunately he had some injuries along the way but it's transitioning him from the body that he once had and the bad habits that he had once had to slowly rebuild regenerate and continue building him all the way through until he's 35 when he plans to retire and the specific goals that we have set so a guy like Nick lent I took over you know five or six fights ago was a 55 pounder um and this you know it'll be a little long-winded but to kind of help explain your your answer the question here took him over and he was doing a lot of the wrong things training really hard totally overtrained overreaching syndrome constantly malnourished couldn't understand why his body wasn't losing weight he was walking around in the mid 160s could barely make [ __ ] 55 without damn near dying said will I work with him I said yes but only at 145 and he's like are you [ __ ] crazy I told you I can't make 55 I said you'll be a world champion at 145 I do believe that you're under size 155 pounder and you're not training properly what I want to do with you is I want to add 10 to 12 pounds of muscle and grow you into the 145b class blew his mind it didn't make any sense to him but to his credit he said okay and just gave me the reins so from that point on I looked at you know multi-month Cycles you know three week Cycles three month Cycles you know a 12 years 12 month cycle to put on lean mass and what we did we took it from 163 lb to 175 lbs we dropped his body fat from probably 13 to 14 down to right about 10% % and then he's able to make 145 consistently now easily so using Steve's methodology in the off season it's much more volume it's more strength building it's more muscle work not exactly hypertrophy because I don't really believe in that but we're always staying anabolic that's the goal we always want the body constantly regenerating regenerating regenerating cuz once we stop regenerating then we're breaking down and once we start breaking down everything goes to [ __ ] so with Nick using him as the example again build him up in the offseason and that's where I start to break down these 3we minic Cycles 3 weeks before the fight that's the peaking phase that's when everything the volume drops dramatically the intensity goes up but it's safe intensity it's not you're not sparring
your [ __ ] hardest those last three weeks you're sparring your most intense and most prefi precise without that bone-on-bone Collision weeks you know four five and six in the middle that's a little bit more medium volume maximum intensity that's when you're really getting your hard hard goes to build that um you know uh ability to withstand the the damage that's going to happen in the fight to callous your body over and also to callous your mind you have to go through that the 3 weeks before that so that's you know 78 n that's more of a volum your mind meaning you just you resolve like mental toughness mental toughness I mean we see guys unfortunately that they get into the Octagon they get put a bad spot that they haven't been in before and they fold because they haven't been there you have to go to those spots unfortunately but you have to do it in a very calculated fashion because you go there too often you'll break in training and you'll give up in the fight you don't go there enough you'll break in the fight and again it's going to be the same result so you have to touch it just enough and this is where that periodization comes in so I help oversee the overall training program I help the athlete usually it's Spar less I try and pull them back because a lot of these athletes are sparring two and three times a week and I try and only have them Spar once a week really from six weeks out one good hard Spar proper Spar and one Tech Spar is really the methodology that I push save the brain save the body let's get more precise and then hit the other hard Drilling in certain phases and then as we get farther out it's more skill building we're looking to just add tools and see what tools fit the overall game you know throw 10 different techniques on the ground and see what fits and as we get a little closer we take the 10 we put it to five as we get a little closer maybe the athletes only going to keep one or two usable techniques that will actually show up come fight day we're not trying to add new tech techniques six weeks out three weeks out for sure at that point it's just fine-tuning and perfecting but that also comes into their their physical preparation what's their body weight like what's the health again health is everything it's mental health
it's physical health that's what allows them to perform at their ultimate so long-winded way of saying I agree with Steve quite a bit strength strength building that's offseason stuff we want to keep that type of strength that explosive strength that you know absolute or maximal strength that we build in the off season we want to keep that but now we want to turn into a different type of strength like a strength speed or speed endurance um as we get into the specific competition and that changes depending on uh what the sport is what happened with um with Charles Olivera Charles Charles Olivera and Nick lent were supposed to fight this past weekend they did not fight cuz Olivera showed up heavy and then the day of the fight they pulled him they said he was sick apparently yeah it was so I'm going to you normally I don't really pull back the veil but I think because this is such a public um situation and olivea and his team they've already spoken on and unfortunately what they said was incorrect from what we saw so Nick and I this fight's on Friday Nick and I we get there on Monday and we're already in the system Nick gets to town at 164 lbs he's fighting at 146 that's the official weigh-in weight and that's actually lighter than Nick normally is but we tightened up his diet just a little bit for Charles specifically we knew Nick was going to overpower him we wanted Nick to be just a little bit lighter a little bit leaner a little bit faster for this fight in better condition in case it was a three round dog fight um Charles called Nick out by the way so Charles asked for this fight you know after they had had a no contest years before so Monday Nick and I we start doing our thing cutting weight now my athletes don't work out I strongly suggest fight week they do not work out and a lot of you know coaches at at all what do you mean at all no we don't put on the [ __ ] gloves we don't grapple we don't hit Ms because we're now all that work's done we're preparing for competition we're pulling the weight at this point and I want to feed the athlete as much as possible hydrate them as much as possible keep them as strong and healthy as possible so they can endure the process of cutting weight whereas I like to frame it positively as purification we're purifying the body as
we go through this Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday step on the scale Friday pH where the body is completely clean pure and we can just put the best possible nutrients back in well you say no working out you mean nothing I mean nothing I mean the most that the most that we'll do and I talk about that in three weeks to shredded what I do with Thiago Alves this is a great maybe we should talk about this next um thiago's last fight you know he weighed at 171 the night before wein using this new protocol that we're using because they're [ __ ] healthy we're not tearing them down during fight week we're actually I build my athletes to the scale everybody else tears thems down to the scale I build my athletes to the scale and it sounds counterintuitive a lot of people think I'm [ __ ] lying or whatever you know bro sciencing out but no this is this is the real [ __ ] [ __ ] um so with Nick what we doing we we don't work out we're going downstairs to the hot tub and we're just hanging out he's playing his [ __ ] you know whatever video games cuz he's a Tech head he's playing his [ __ ] games we're [ __ ] chilling out to music we're just shooting the [ __ ] like you would do with your boys just hanging out in the hot tub for a little bit C's coming down and hanging out with Ben Roth a little bit we're just shooting the [ __ ] down there Charles and his coach are in the [ __ ] sauna on Monday in plastic [ __ ] suits and sweatpants all goddamn day long Nick and I were in the hot tub for a half hour just to break a sweat drinking water the whole time eat beforehand stay hydrated during go upstairs and eat again this is what we do and that's what we did typically twice a day during fight week every time we went downstairs to the spa which was beautiful at this hotel um Foxwoods Charles was in the [ __ ] sauna Plastics on in the sauna and they would pick him up carry him out and just [ __ ] let him lay in the floor and then they like cover him with towels so archaic and this is what a lot of athletes do Charles was an extreme example now they're doing this on Monday they're doing this on Monday man [ __ ] Monday if you're doing that maybe maybe I can see athletes doing that like the night before in the morning of they're doing it [ __ ] Monday and Tuesday and
Wednesday now we waited on Thursday on Wednesday and this is funny so we're watching him just break this [ __ ] kid he's laying there in the sauna I mean just not moving you know and he'd get up and you know he'd do and he kind of like give us a thumbs up he was a nice kid nothing bad to say about Charles nothing bad to say about his coach but what they did was wrong they broke him in the [ __ ] sauna Nick and I saw it we're like you know high five I mean it makes our job a hell of a lot easier cuz Nick's [ __ ] great and you know Nick's there at one point Charles comes in sits in the hot tub at the very end and he's looking at Nick and Nick's just sitting there drinking water you know shooting the [ __ ] Charles is over there dry mouth just sucked out big dark bags under his eyes after being in the [ __ ] song for God knows how long and just kind of laid out on the wall so Wednesday comes in this is actually funny Wednesday comes middle of the day Charles's coach they drag him out of the [ __ ] sauna and they're just sitting there I took a photo of it I was going to Tweet it like what not to do and I was like Ah that's you know [ __ ] bad maybe I shouldn't do that maybe I should have I don't know um he comes over and he's like hey guys I I have a proposition for you and I think oh this fucker's not going to make weight they want to catch weight I have a proposition for you like what's up he's like what you're doing right now this this is not going to work he's like you're not going to lose weight like this in the back I have salt and I have alcohol and I want to pour it in the tub for you so that in 30 minutes you'll lose the same amount as you'll lose in three hours doing what you're doing right now I'm thinking are you [ __ ] kidding me salt and alcohol in the water salt and I I'm assuming he means epson salt and rubbing alcohol which is a lot of athletes use and I have the data on that there's not a discernable difference and there's actually negative effects from doing that we can touch on that in a in a second so I say to him I'm like now we're good I mean Nick's losing a pound every 15 minutes and we're replacing it the whole time because again I'm a data head and I track all my athletes I know Johnny Hendrick you know between 195 185 pounds he lose 1.2 pounds of fluid every
15 minutes I know Nick lych loses a pound on the hold on I'm going to stop you right there I'm confused as [ __ ] you you make him lose weight and then you put it back on no what we're doing is we're just training the body to sweat to sweat to just have the water purifying we're purifying pushing out the toxins are you giving them U is it distilled water is it regular water regular purified water they ever drink distilled water no there's some sort of a theory behind that right that you drink a lot of distilled water and it forces your body to release all of its electrolytes or something and it leeches your body of all these healthy minerals electrolytes and such the distilled water we don't do that because we're trying to preserve Health again we're not try so how do you get them to lose 30 [ __ ] pound speed up their metabolism through proper eating proper meal size they eat small and often usually it's you know written down for everybody in the [ __ ] world to read it's small and it's often and it's meals that we've targeted based upon their physiology from the weeks beforehand meals and ingredients that suit their body um and they just eat consistently we play with you know carbo um carbohydrate timing we we play with the you know protein raos we keep our fat levels really high we keep carbohydrates in the diet all on fight week you know we keep sodium the diet for the most part most of fight week we Elevate and then lower but we never drop completely um a lot of people they just pull the carbs and they pull the salt and then they just [ __ ] drink the distilled water so how do you get Nick he's weighs in the week he shows up he's 164 he's got to get down to 145 146 how do you get him to lose that amount of weight in a week we speed up his metabolism which matters quite a bit so he gets T at 164 so you change his diet the week of we change usually it's it's 10 days out what we do is 10 days out we increase sodium but not a dramatic amount what I tell the athletes is add more salt to your foods but not so much that it tastes bad just add more than you normally do so let's say you're taking it the the week beforehand so 10 days out typically should be your hardest training session okay cuz any more than 10 days out now we're too close close to the competition time you
might not be fully recovered and you're not going to perform at your best so right about 10 days out usually the Tuesday before the fight of the following week that should be the hardest day and then everything else we start to pull way back light and medium workouts much shorter in Den ities start to increase your sodium just a little bit so you can taste it but it's nothing that you don't like never too much that it's not good add a little bit more to your water and we add pink Himalayan sea salt love the onut brand actually for that that's the one I use almost primarily um to the water while they're training just add a little bit more so we increase their sodium content just a little bit and then usually depending on the athlet Saturday or Sunday sometimes even Monday morning we pull that back we don't add any more addition we don't add additional salt so we rise the sodium up then we pull it back down to normal levels probably anywhere between 1 to 2,000 milligram depending on the athlete depending on their lifestyle and we really focus on feeding them similar a similar caloric content but more often so it's basically the same you let's say 2,000 calories a day but instead of you know five to six meals now we're eating you know 8 to 10 smaller meals all day long the metabolism speeds up we're also focusing on more fiber cleaning out their digestive tract a lot of times athletes will step on the scale with impacted food matter still sitting inside of them 2 4 6 pound who knows Is that real that's real absolutely four to six lbs of that's a lot of staks like if you looked at six staks slap six staks down like six T-Bone 16 oz T-Bone staks that's a lot of [ __ ] weight and the fluid that they that food absorbs as does that much in a person's bowels and their where does it all fit I would estimate they say John Wayne had like 20 some odd pounds bull true or not that's not true true or not I don't know but I estimate somewhere up to 3 lbs of imp Ed food matter depending on when your last meals were or when you're high protein you're harder to digest meals were I had heard that that's [ __ ] the amount of like it's like one of those common myths the amount of impacted food the average American male has in their gut when they die you ever read that [ __ ] there's like a Snopes thing on that hold on I'm going
to pull that up but please keep going so we speed up their metabolism we increase their digest increase their digestive efficiency we make sure they are completely clean and then what we focus on is these small sweats we keep the body sweating we allow them to be used to sweating but we keep rehydrating them so it's easier for them to keep sweating and these athletes sweat a shitload during this time the only time is when we stop adding water is usually the night before the day before Waynes are on Thursday we stop somewhere midday Friday we pull the water out and then we'll use what I call the step method where it's a very simple way to not break the athlete to keep them sweating properly and the weight again comes off and it's all through hot tub hot bath it's never in the sauna my athletes so we don't train fight week we didn't go to the [ __ ] sauna we don't put on Plastics unless it's like that last minute it's freezing outside we need to pull off another few ounces on the way to the venue then we'll throw some Plastics on um and how much actual dehydration is it like the the the day of when he wakes up on Friday morning if it's a Saturday fight what is Nick lent weigh uput three and2 lbs on the day of weighing that's it yeah that's it he woke up the day before 12 lbs over we ate three meals that day we I think he drank almost a gallon of water that morning and just by drinking the water so frequently it pushes the water out and then we cut so he woke up so 146 I think he woke up around 1 he woke up at 158 the day before he floated you know 2 lbs off by the time we got to the tub later on that night he went to bed at 150 so we lost about 6 lbs and that's usually half and that's a good estimate the day before we want to lose about half the night before you're going to float 1 to 3 lbs typically you know while you sleep and then the next morning is usually 2 to 4 lbs wow so it's very small controlled you know elimination of weight and it's water weight and he's still eating he's never not eating he's still picking he's not having these big meals but we go from meals to you know kind of snack size to now it's handfuls just to keep his metabolism moving keep his body processing the food keep pulling the nutrients keep his blood sugar stable
keep his brain on keep his mood elevated so he doesn't feel like [ __ ] H uh according to uh Snopes John Wayne did not have that much pack impacted in his body but Elvis apparently had a lot but it's because he was taking drugs he was impacted he couldn't consp from the painkillers right but I've heard that too that's why I wanted to look that up it's uh apparently it's like almost you would be in such incredible pain if you had that much food impacted in your bow which makes sense so if you were to eat you know how many pounds of food do you think the average person dude eats in a given day 200 lb guy you know six lb 8 lb maybe 10 lb of food you wake up at 190 you go to bed at 198 or so there's fluid in there but you've you know pissed and [ __ ] out some do you um account at all for biological variability like does Nick lent have a different diet then say Thiago Alves does he and how do you know like like what to do for each IND so we stick with princi the principles never change and that's really the scientific base the principles never change but the individual application almost always does and it changes with the same athlete from fight to fight because the athlete is never the same no matter what we're doing in this Camp 3 months 6 months from now it's a different athlete it's a different physiology it's a different training pattern it's a different mood it's a different lifestyle at home how so like give me an example like Thiago Alves so with Thiago what we did in the beginning you know he missed weight with John Fitch in 2010 started working with him two days later brought him down fought John Fitch John Howard and his weight issue was gone so and then he had some injuries he had his knees fixed he had his shoulders and arm fixed he was on the shelf for two years uh 25 months actually we came back and he fought in Orlando in April and the new and improved Thiago had been on the meal plan almost the entire time was eating properly those 52 weeks out of the year and he does his Sunday Funday and he has a little barbecue but that's controlled and that's okay we allow that to a degree but he would really followed the meal plan from about 12 weeks when the fight was offered he went on and he
didn't break he didn't go off so when I got to him 3 weeks before the fight and Thiago is one of the few athletes I actually travel for for an extended period of time anymore and I went and stayed with him and he was 196 or 198 3 weeks before the fight jacked probably you know 8% 9% body fat wow SL and he [ __ ] looked awesome slowly but surely I tightened up his diet you know I tightened the wheels and the switches just a little bit really made sure he was getting enough food to fuel but not enough to spill over we were will slowly bring his weight down to the lower 90s so if he's eight if he's 8% body fat and you're lowering his body weight what do you are you causing atrophy like what are you doing to a degree we're trying to with him we're trying to eliminate a little bit of muscle or reduce some of the muscle volume that he has and that's it's all waterweight cuz you can tell that he definitely looked Slimmer when he fought Seth pazinski he looked great he looked awesome fought great he had a great gas tank I mean he looked really good in that fight but that was I found it fascinating that he weighed so little the day before the the the fight yep when he entered into the cage what did he weigh 194 o so how you doing that so pulling him down the same exact principle different foods for Thiago than what lent ate Thiago is much more of a um a protein and fat metabolizer Nick lens is much more of a a vegetable and produce metabolizer um they perform better while their analytics are much better when they have those type of foods and that just comes through experience working with these guys so Thiago was more heavy it was you know chicken and steak and eggs um avocados you know different types of oils and seeds to really bring him down anytime he has you know the heavier carbs outside of the the breakfast bowl oats and such berries first thing in the morning he tends to blow up and really holds on to that water so we slowly eliminate that so no pastas for him or things along those lines I think we did pasta probably um two weeks out where we do what's a refeed you know every you know uh once a week we'll do a refeed where we go really high carbohydrate but stage that with a lower car carbohydrate either before or right after um so we'll do the refeed definitely once a week
sometimes twice a week depending on how close we are and what's the benefits of a refeed it's to refill the body of lost glycogen to make sure that usable energy is available um and it's also a mood elevator because a lot of times the athlete starts to get a little you know shitty if they're not getting more carbohydrates and the Brain runs on carbohydrates also so you can see the mood kind of De decrease just a little bit and also performance like working with Manny guran right now to drop him from 45 to 135 got him on the first program the initial program and it was just a little bit too low carbohydrate he's like ah his mood was down just a little bit he didn't feel that snap in practice and we really just brought him up about 100 extra carbohydrates per day and he [ __ ] felt amazing so it was really trying to find the line that is exactly what they need without spilling over and once we got that we got him feeling good for 10 days we're able to Stage it down just a little bit and he feels even better so now we're slowly into that last 3-week phase the peaking phase and he's you know now he's 148 pounds yesterday which his last fight for him to get under 155 he felt like he was going to die so now he's training at 148 feels [ __ ] amazing fully fed six plus meals a day but everything's kind of perfectly controlled wow so this protocol that you you you make you make a specific one for each fighter and you sort of work with them same principles what happened with BJ pen because BJ pen was upset with you after his fight and you know said a lot of [ __ ] in the press and just really wasn't happy with it yeah he said his exact quote was without the IV you're nothing like he he wanted to not use intravenous uh fluid retention he didn't want to get an IV to rehydrate yeah he the IV was available and ready and the doctor was on call and he didn't want the IV and why didn't he want an IV he didn't say well no that's not true days before he had said he'd never used one before he was worried about how he would feel he said he would play it by ear if he did feel like he needed one but he didn't cut any weight and that's why I didn't disagree with him now he runs the show he's the boss of the camp period the end of story and that was very clear he didn't want the IV and I didn't disagree with him
because he didn't cut anounce he was eating and drinking on wein day walking over to wein this is not an athlete that was dehydrated it was not an athlete that was suffering it was an athlete that looked amazing was bouncing around talking to everybody full of energy did he need an IV you know I'm not a doctor but he didn't want the doctor to come to you know administer it and I have to rely on the The Athlete you know it's his body it's his choice he said he' never used one before he didn't want one he felt great is what he had said mhm perfect well here's [ __ ] a shitload of house full of food and fluid and everything that you need to consume so enjoy now that same fight card I worked with Ronda Rousey Ronda Rousey didn't use an ivi there and she cut over 10 lbs she never IVs she had never used one before a little nervous to use it chose not to use it didn't use it and went out there and looked like Rhonda always looks because she's just never had it before now if she had used one maybe she would have looked even better or maybe it would have fairness her fight lasted 10 seconds I know when she fought Misha Tate her fight lasted into the third round right and Mesa is a very well- conditioned athlete one of the better conditioned female athletes in the game and Ronda looked amazing and that was a scrap not not at one point did Ronda look like she was at a loss and she had no IV in that fight no IV in that fight and how much did she cut in that fight she cuts about 10 pounds she gets in she fights at 35 usually she'll get down into the lower 40s just that day before mean she's gets in the fight week usually between 48 and 50 and she does most of her training in the low how did BJ get down to 145 pounds BJ is a guy who fought at 170 because he didn't like making 155 yeah so all of a sudden we see BJ training and getting ready and he looks so thin what did he do he was back when we filmed The Ultimate Fighter he was 162 lbs he was in the low 160s back then when and then they they broke off communication with me you know after the ultimate fight was over I didn't hear from anybody from their team their Camp until the very end of May which is just a few weeks before fight week and they were in a bit of mode now I didn't get to Hawaii to First actually you know be
a part of the camp in the team until June the 9th Which is less than a month before the fight when I got there BJ had said he weighs said hey what do you weigh champ 157 PBS but I went out last night with Dominick Cruz and we had some pizza I weighed 157 today and I'm thinking [ __ ] why do you need me to be here you know that the [ __ ] you know Dolce died dude if you're 157 lb I mean you're 10 lb over what the weight class is after eating some bad [ __ ] you're probably closer to 55 54 I'm assuming so it was kind of it was an anomaly it was really an odd situation um how did he lose the weight you know just eating a little more he paid more attention to his food as he got closer to the fight those last couple weeks I was there I didn't prepare any meals for him I stayed in a completely different location he stayed in one area I stayed a few miles away in another area it was a weird situation it was one of the oddest training camps i' had ever been a part of and I was there for less than two weeks physically in Hawaii and had very little influence unfortunately and I I made some very strong suggestions and I made you know very strong observations to members of the team of what I saw and what I am accustomed to and what I think would really benefit like what did you have issue with um it was the the training you know frequency and just the training frequency I don't believe it was enough it wasn't training enough that for all the other athletes that work with train much more often and how often was BJ training once a day but not quite every day and the type of training was less there was no and then we we'll just compare it to Frankie Edgar's team now Frankie Edgar has Mark Henry there who's a world class striking coach he has Steve Rivera there who's one of the top wrestling coaches in the country and then he has Cal Mata there who's one of the top Brazilian jiu-jitsu coaches practitioners in the world and then Frankie's got a shitload of you know UFC level guys that he's training with on a daily basis and BJ had none of that he had a coach who was a nice man who from what I understand has no experience in boxing or coaching you know professional athlet
certainly at the world class UFC MMA level there was no wrestling coach there and you know the only the top level Jiu-Jitsu guys of course BJ who's very accolate but his brothers were there and it didn't seem like they had any influence as far as technical proficiency or strategy or you know game plan or training and it was you know minimal the only training camps there of you know training Partners there value were the two guys I brought in at the last minute which was Nick lent and mad Beck now lent left very you know he got there and he left because he's didn't want to be there he didn't feel like it was going to be a good training environment for for him so he left early and then mad stayed but mad's you know a young tough kid Mad was actually a great training partner for BJ and really tried to do his best to mimic what Frankie was going to do so it was a tough situation is it one of those situations where in in all fairness BJ who's a great Champion who's a real MMA Legend is almost too strong of a personality to be coached because he's been so successful and because he's been such a destroyer at points in his career that he has something in his head and who the [ __ ] are you to tell BJ pen what to do that could be that could be it was very I you know I don't know why there was no coaches there that were able to truly make in fluence the suggestions that I made were and I made them officially and they were accepted but not responded or reacted to and it was just a matter of you know this is that's the direction he's choosing to go and he's either going to win and look like a [ __ ] genius or he's going to not win and he's going to make the odd makers look like a genius in all fairness there's other issues besides diet there was also his upright boxing style that confused the [ __ ] out of a lot of people no one no one understood he had this narrow stance and he stood completely straight up it was very odd and uh when he was uh asked about it he said that it was very effective for him in training and that uh it had been uh they came up with it to somehow or another Reserve energy so by not lowering his body weight body meaning by not lowering his stance and pushing off of his legs more by standing up straight it would extend less energy it would be less difficult for him to do
I I found that incredibly bizarre and the last thing you should ever be thinking about if you're about to fight Frankie [ __ ] Edgar is conserving energy yeah I mean godamn you you better be ready to go balls to the wall for five [ __ ] rounds because Frankie is going to Frankie is going to when we were on the ultimate fighter set in October Frankie was training twice a day himself and then he was training twice with the athletes on the the show Frankie was was seen at every gym in Las Vegas training with their best and top guys and he was surrounded by his coaches the entire time I mean that's who Frankie is and that's who I knew BJ was going to be competing against BJ was at his best when he was with the sard in Rue but was with the marinovic agreed agreed movices and uh Jason Perlo was working on a striking who was bis bis Bank striking coach and they were able to really put together Great Performances Sean Sherk and is it Diego and Joe Stevenson I me that was that was Prime BJ amazing and it I don't know why that there was the dramatic shift and change in training protocols and In Style Just he what what he wanted to do I guess and that's he's he's the boss yeah it's just it's so hard when you're a fan of a guy like that where you know you almost want to just be able to like get inside of his head yeah and just you know man if you had a like a matte Hume type coach someone that you could completely listen to someone that you you trusted and respected enough to run your entire camp this is the guy that's going to tell you what your strength and conditioning protocol is this is the guy who's going to tell you what what kind of sparring you're going to do this is the kind of uh drilling you're going to do you're going to do all this stuff that this guy says like a guy like BJ pen would almost be unstoppable absolutely it's hard man it's it's it's it's really a fascinating sport in that this sport has evolved before our eyes and we've seen the training like change and move and adjust and it's one of the reasons why I brought up the idea of whether or not people have unreal expectations because of performance-enhancing drugs cuz it's it's it's very confusing in a lot of ways people there everyone's sort of imitating the successful behavior that
they see around them you know this guy uses ropes he swings ropes around I got to get some ropes you know this guy likes to [ __ ] use a tire and a sledgehammer [ __ ] I need a tire you know it's we everywhere yeah I mean that's what we see we see everyone sort of imitating what's successful and what people have done successfully before them and then there's guys like Fedor that confus the [ __ ] out of everybody cuz he's throwing rocks and [ __ ] you know this throwing punches with little hand weights and that's basically all you ever see from them yeah you know it's it's weird it's it's a weird Sport and that it's not like pro football where you know you go back to the Jim Brown era and you change to today you know you've seen 50 years of evolution and it's all sort of culminated in the last couple of decades and you see science and nutrition and and conditioning protocols have all sort of adjusted but with MMA it's not just running it's not just moving left and moving right at the same time you're learning the thousand plus possibilities of any jiujitsu match you're learning the 500 plus possibilities of any combinations in kickboxing you know you're learning so many skills the combination of wrestling and Judo the combination of jiujitsu [ __ ] catch wrestling the combination of I mean there's just so many variables there's so much [ __ ] to learn on top of all the strength and conditioning so it's not as simple as this guy needs to learn how to squat 500 lb and [ __ ] push that sled yeah no there's there's a lot of other [ __ ] you have to do two and if you do too much of one and not enough of the other you won't be at your best it's this combination of the strength and conditioning and of being you know a guy who understands all the variables of mixed martial arts as well absolutely it's it's almost like no one really knows how to do it yet it's still young I mean we're still evolving you know as a sport though people have been fighting for years never like this never at this level never with so much on the line you know multi-millions of dollars available now for the top dog so there's a there a race and that's obviously what brings in the Peds but it's also what's pushes athletes like Ronda Rousey forward to constantly evolve and work on her
striking more and find new ways to diet and do her strength and conditioning better and use her mental you know visualization approaches to really make sure she can be at the you know on the top of that crusting wave so she's not getting stuck behind it she's really at the Forefront you know an athletes like that it's a it's a crazy time when it comes to these things it really is a crazy time and the the thing about the Performing enhance the performance enhancing drugs I mean they exist in all sports of course but in MMA it's almost like there's not enough time in the day to do everything there's so many different things that you have to be on top of that an athlete almost doesn't have the time or the physical resources like their body can't do all the work that's required and that's where periodization comes in that way you're able to segment what we're going to be working on for this 3-week phase and then we're going to work on something different but synergistic on the next three-week phase and we're slowly going to be the best possible version of ourself at that time when we step into the Octagon or step into the competition Circle and then it all starts over again and we look to add more tools one of the other things that BJ's Camp said was that you kind of restricted the amount of food that he ate the day of the fight it's not true there was a lot a lot of the things unfortunately that said were factually Incorrect and I chose not to comment this is the first time I'm even commenting about it and I I went on go the on the Underground every day and a lot of the people on the Underground seem to have a pretty good take on what the reality of the situation was and I didn't feel the need to personally comment and what I'm going to say is that there he had a house full of food I personally brought over tons of amazing food that was available he was 2 minutes from a Whole Foods next that was right down the street from him you know there's his house had you know [ __ ] 10 gallons of water in it and a gallon of coconut water and a running faucet and there's sea salt everywhere and you know just you know a big I brought a huge vat of the power pasta with grass-fed beef and you know all the organic what is that Power Pasta it's it's a brown rice pasta so it's it's a higher carbohydrate
content food and it was I made two 16 oun boxes of it which would basically feed like a family of four really [ __ ] big dudes or you know the family of six or so two l pounds of uh grass-fed ground beef was mixed up in there and just I think like two Peppers two red peppers and two green and two red onions and you know just really high quality nutrients and you know a full [ __ ] smoothie massive you know handful of kale handful of spinach handful of red grapes handful of blueberries handful of strawberries so you didn't you don't restrict their calories at all the day of the fight I don't restrict anything and again I had very little influence very little influence and that's that's clear I I was more like a I was a chef I would bring some really delicious food and you know some things would get eaten and some things wouldn't it was nothing I was saying don't eat this or don't do that and everything was available so who was saying that you had restricted his food because that was one of the big things that was going around I know a lot of it's just internet hearsay and somebody hears things and they create a thread there's people in his camp wasn't it it wasn't anybody in his Camp it was people that seemed like people from his area or information was fed to them by somebody and I'm not really going to speculate because it's not worth my time to comment and I don't want to turn into anything right right bger but it just it was factually completely false and Incorrect and I spoke with very you know high ranking members of his team and we've had you know this the factual conversations we're all in alignment as to exactly what happens which is a really nice thing but it's kind of the the public conversation that just continues on and that's it's just not correct so do you think that what happens is after a fighter loses they I mean there's an interesting thing that happened with Travis Brown um Travis Brown did this inter interview and I I really love Travis I think he's an awesome guy and I think he's a great fighter but he's also super honest which I thought was really cool and he said that after he lost to fabriccio verdum he said he goes I went through the whole process I blamed myself I blamed everybody around me I blamed you know I
I took turns blaming people he goes I I [ __ ] cried I did the whole deal and then I figured out all right what do I need to work on what do I need to change what do I need to adjust he's working with Edmund uh ronda's trainer on his striking and trying to tone things up and change some things and learn some new skills and learn some new variables that he could add to his fight game but what I love about the fact that he was he was honest about how after the fight there's this instinct to sort of blame yeah blame himself blame others rotate you know no [ __ ] it it was everybody else's fault it wasn't me and um after the BJ fight I kept hearing all this [ __ ] about you know blaming Mike Dolce I'm like man how much [ __ ] impact can a guy who's telling you what to eat have on how you fight because what I saw in that cage was a guy getting overwhelmed by a guy with a [ __ ] incredible gas tank with a better strategy by the number two guy in the world who has two wins over him previously so you know there's just bad matchups right and that maybe that was one of it Frankie's been more active he was the number two guy in the world at the time BJ was coming off of a massive layoff and we knew it was a very uphill battle I was as shocked I mean I I was really hurt when I heard the first comment and I saw the things being said and kind of the finger being pointed my way cuz I know what happened and I know what my influence or lack of influence was and I will I will go down with the [ __ ] [ __ ] but any athlete that knows me that I work with knows the type of person I am and I think I I've built built a solid reputation within the industry and it was it was just uncalled for it was unfair and I kept my mouth shut because I try to be I wanted to be a professional and I didn't want to say anything because BJ's got a lot of fans I'm a [ __ ] huge fan of the kit I still am a huge fan of the kit and I understand because I've fought before I've lost before and I've been hurt before and I've wanted to blame and I still could blame but what is that going to get and with my you know defend myself here for a second I know what I did and I think I was probably one of the only bright positives with True World Class experience that was around him I didn't have to be a part of that
camp is that a part of just because he's isolated he's on Hilo you know very is it was very very difficult when you're the most famous [ __ ] person and you got people showing up in your house knocking on your door to get an autograph things are it was it was it was difficult it was the very hard situation it was was he has people knocking on his door yeah trying to get autographs yeah I mean I feel bad for the guy that's you know luckily there's not that many people after a couple hours you're done you're done it was the whole town anywhere he goes people are honking the horns at him he's he's a superstar specific I mean here he's a superstar there he's just you know he's like the king over there right and it was it was hard for a lot of different reasons but you know for to see the things said and basically the the way that they were man you know we look you look at the fight you look at what happened that had nothing to do with food it had nothing to do with body weight there's you know we posted a video of him two days before way he woke up at 148 fully fed fully hydrated saying it's the best he [ __ ] felt in his entire life and then yeah you know I I understand what you're saying um I found it incredibly fascinating that you said the the athletes don't work out at all the week of and one of the reasons why is because I happen to be at um Uriah faers uh gym this uh past weekend when TJ fought and when um Danny Castillo fought and when I got there Danny Castillo was working out the day of the fight he was hitting mits with Dwayne yeah and uh you know they put in like a good [ __ ] 20-minute workout I mean he was hitting Ms man I mean he wasn't just he wasn't going like 10% speed like just moving his body around he was working out yeah footwork drills you know combination he looked great yeah you know and I was kind of shocked and I asked him why and he said well when he rehydrated he felt a little bloated but he always does that he always gets in a workout this was after weigh-ins when he rehydrated no this yeah after weigh-ins rehydrated than the day of the fight okay he worked out the day of the fight and I do agree with something along those lines day of the fight to get the fluids moving every athlete's a little
bit different we do with that with Nick lenson he's the one who gave me the [ __ ] black eye on Friday before Charles cancell the fight we put him through usually you know abbreviated three rounds just to get him moving mhm and make him feel good again just we I approach and a lot of the athletes we I work with we approach fight day like another [ __ ] day it's like a hard sparring day so oh I see what you're saying so you you treat it like as if he's just going to do some hard sparring that day so when you have him work out to get the fluids moving as it were what's what's the idea behind that is that like the the rehydration process the IV and everything like that you want everything moving through the body to make sure everything's working properly so there's no prises but we're not overworking the athlete we're warming them up and then we're just cooling them right back down again making them big part of it is also it's building confidence because they go through the weight cut process and sometimes you feel a little shitty and you're like [ __ ] do I still have it I felt like sh you know [ __ ] yesterday I felt weak yesterday God he look so big yesterday and you get in there they feel you know obviously Nick is ways in at 46 and he was probably 46 closer to you know 65 the very next morning and felt like a [ __ ] machine and he left that room with a smile on his face like I'm going to [ __ ] kill this dude what do you do when it comes to guys like heavyweights I would most heavyweights in my opinion I'm not saying that they should cut weight but they should all be fighting somewhere between 10 and 12% body fat the chubby heavy weights with the fat belly that's a lazy athlete what about Fedor fed what about Fedor Fedor could have been better I believe he could have been God forbid he could have been better what about Kane Kane looks a little fat I know but he's a monster could be look at Daniel Cormier I mean the guys just because you compete in an unlimited weight class or nearly Unlimited weight class doesn't mean you can have an unlimited body weight what's the proper body weight for performance for most athletes it's somewhere between 8 to 12% is there a proper body weight for a heavyweight as far as like when you get too heavy you're dealing with
gravity you're dealing with mass that needs to have blood pump through it because isn't the one variable that's not very different in people the size of your actual heart that the heart tends to be similar in size slight variable more similar in size so like a guy like Bigfoot Silva or Brock Lesnar is a better example cuz Bigfoot actually has gigantism is a real issue um but Brock Lesnar an enormous Giant and then a guy like say Chris cariaso who's fighting for the flyweight title yeah their heart is probably way more similar in size than any other part of their body I would agree with that so maybe the [ __ ] I don't know about that I just throw that out there for some reason Chris is bigger probably say that maybe he's got a giant h j kids got balls tell you that um tough guy Chris Cario interesting fight coming up but my point being um is there a number where a heavyweight like shouldn't like some a lot of people think the most effective weight is somewhere around 240 for heavyweight and I agree I think they think that CU that's what Kane is that's what Kane is but Kane eating properly and he's the [ __ ] dominant champion of the world so I'm not saying he should do anything but there's no reason why any professional athlete should be walking around with excess nonfunctional weight and a lot of what's floating around Kane's midsection or athletes like Kane and he's one of the better conditioned but without that 8 10 12 16 additional pounds how much faster would he be Force production would probably be very similar unless he really sits down on a single Punch or one single blast but he probably be faster he'd probably be more agile he'd be more capable of scrambling he'd be able to do a few more things with no loss in strength so you think if he got down to about 230 and lowered his body fat to about 10% he'd be even better than the best heavyweight ever I believe so I mean I don't know if Kane's the best heavyweight ever but in my opinion it's between him and Fedor there's two best heavyweights of all time in my mind and they're Kane and Fedor yeah look at Tyson add 20 pounds of fat to Tyson what happens to Mike Tyson he no longer becomes one of the most dominant heavyweights in the world is that true though I mean I don't know about that man like the Tyson that
knocked out Larry Holmes you put on 10 pounds on him he's still gonna [ __ ] Larry Holmes up put 20 but is he still able to cover that distance is he still gonna have that that fast twitch movement for 8 10 12 rounds first three rounds everybody looks like a [ __ ] monster you know in in boxing or first five minutes in MMA first round everybody can move really quick but then as time goes on that weight start gravity starts to pull on you but okay in in response to that the two guys that we were talking about both K both Kane and Fedor are both guys that had high body fat who are known for their high output and their long fights with Incredible endurance and they could have been better is that really true though I believe so is it is it possible that carrying around a certain amount of fat aids your endurance is that possible AB absolutely but what would that line be just and me visually I'm not in their camps I don't know so we're just kind of throwing [ __ ] at the wall right now M I say and all the athletes just experience we're going to throw some Bro Science out there right now 8 to 12% body fat for the heavy weighs closer to 12% not down % you know for the lighter guys 8% or so makes more sense when Fedor was at his prime yeah what do you think he his body fat was um he held a lot of fat in his belly but there's some fights where you could see veins running through his shoulders and arms you know he had rather skinny legs so he was kind of ass heavy and you know stomach oblique heavy and that's where he was handling a lot of or carrying a lot of the weight what was it probably you know 14 to 16 did you ever talk to him you ever find out what his diet was or anything I would love to i' I'd fly to [ __ ] Russia to find out what's going on with that guy when he was at his best prick well certainly this skill involved I mean he had tremendous Jud sombo skills yeah I know what you're saying I mean without a doubt he had incredible mental toughness and his ability to perform under pressure was fantastic there was a lot going on there but I would also like to know what his actual training protocol was when you got to see those uh those highlights when he did strike for of him working out and stuff but you don't know what the [ __ ] that is you a lot of times guys would just you know they tell you
all right hit the bag for our promo and you know you'd have him [ __ ] throw casting punches at the bag you don't really know what what is he actually doing what's his actual training and most of that stuff on TV it's mostly fake most of the athletes they don't run with the [ __ ] parachutes they don't do a lot of that that type of training I call it sexy training it looks awesome on TV but that's not really what they're doing on the daily and the higher level athletes really train very Basics they focus on the basics you know they get really good at the [ __ ] Basics and they start adding some higher level technique same thing on the strength and conditioning side well Matt Brown does a lot of really wild [ __ ] man he does a a lot of really wild strength and conditioning [ __ ] do you work do you work with him at all The Immortal Brown yeah no I don't unfortunately we've played with it and we were cast members on The Ultimate Fighter years ago we're still buddies but I haven't worked with him specifically I'd love to down the road though I think that'd be a fun part of my career yeah he's a guy who I've seen some of his workouts they're [ __ ] brutal he does a lot of really unorthodox stuff lot of crazy lifts dead lifts and all kinds of obviously a very thin guy but obviously very physically strong he's I we've trained together you know even after the show Matt's strong as hell he's a lot stronger than he looks he looks like that thin lean guy he's got he's [ __ ] strong as when he gets his hands on you he's like granted yeah I I mean as we're talking about this and talking about different styles and different people's training um it's it is interesting that there's no one answer like this is what you have to do in order to you know do X you have to start out with you know Y and put in you know W and there's no answer right it's like everybody has to figure out what works well for them and when you see guys like re readjust and rebound and try to reassess their career like like over is a perfect example over is now at Jackson's and he you know he just fought against Ben Rothwell and got knocked out in the first round looked great for a little bit until he got clipped but um you know he was doing things a lot differently throwing those oblique kicks to the knee which a lot of
people don't like they're upset about that I don't like those either yeah it's a weird technique cuz you're not supposed to attack the knee itself right isn't that what's the story what the rule is I think it's like within an inch or two of the knee depending I forget the exact Rule now but but nobody calls you on it I haven't yeah seen it you throw an oblique kick an inch over the knee no one's going to say hey don't attack the knee no especially when you're lying on your back and you're throwing up Kicks people throw them right at the knees and no one says a word yeah you know like uh when faki and hick and Gracie fought you know remember that hickon [ __ ] blasted him right in the knees off of his back it's interesting man you look at like Eddie style of Jiu-Jitsu verse the Gracie style or just or L bang Muay Thai verse you know Duke Rufus you know it's like different philosophies different approaches but they all [ __ ] work really well and if you speak with Dwayne he's going to say no this is the system right and you're going to well that he's got it and then you watch Pettis fight you like no Duke Kus has got his own system he got his own and that [ __ ] [ __ ] works works real good strength and conditioning I think is very similar and it's the athlete is is really going to gravitate towards what suits them but it's all you know like I said the athlete changes which is why my we have the principles so the principles don't change you know Dwayne let's say throw a punch with your right hand left hand has to be blocking I think Duke would say the same thing but the individual application that's where it changes on the individual basis per athlete per time they compete or on different athletes so the principles are always the same but we always have to evolve the application I'm sure just like Eddie's doing every night he goes in the gym he's like oh [ __ ] I saw this [ __ ] white belt do something that just totally killed the black belt's move what let me [ __ ] try that yeah there's variables in Jiu-Jitsu that don't exist in Striking but there's also striking variables that don't exist in Jiu-Jitsu like the idea of throwing things at like a 50 or 60% out output instead of 100% with each technique whereas some guys like Jeremy Stevens
perfect example Jeremy Stevens is a [ __ ] murderer he throws everything is designed to knock your face into the dirt I mean everything he throws is 100% on it and he's just works hard to be able to do that but his volume is much lower than to say a guy like Nick Diaz who Nick Diaz will come at you and he'll throw like many punches at like 50 60% and put it on you and then throw some hundreds in there you know to the body with 100 go upstairs with 100 and then more 50 50 50 50 and he just puts volume on you so you don't see that in Jiu-Jitsu you very rarely see guys like hit moves at less than 100% you know when you're when you're trying to Guillotine someone you don't try to Guillotine them at 50% you know you lock that [ __ ] up you're squeezing with everything you got so it's a it's a fascinating thing the the the different approaches for different body styles because some guys also they don't have like Dominick Cruz great fighter great athlete great Champion does not have that sort of one punch Jeremy Stevens power he just doesn't possess it he doesn't have the body for it you know just this is what the universe has given him they've given him a you know he's a high volume high output High discipline excellent condition that's important it's imperative for him to be able to put on the kind of performances that he puts on y whereas some guys just go out there and try to Paul daily it you know excellent technique but everything's designed to murder you absolutely yeah it's an in interesting growth and evolution of the sport and it's really cool to see the different athletes different body types and see this new generation now coming out there because what we're seeing guys like Cruz and and Dillashaw he's the champ now but he's part of you know a younger generation but there's another tier below him now that's going to be coming soon and and make Dillashaw look a little you know not one-dimensional but a little slower let's say you know two three years from now there's some [ __ ] kid in the middle of nowhere that's going to come out I can't imagine that but I know you're right it's going to happen right remember GSP came out and we were all like godamn this dude is like an Olympic gymnast and look at what he's doing yeah
and then you know you have a guy like Dillashaw coming out moving the way he does putting his wrestling together all the faints that he's doing hitting with power you know kind of like what you were saying about Diaz where they're able to offsp speed their punches and their strikes and really change angles that's that's awesome stuff and you seen that the level of the wrestlers and athletes are just coming in they're just off the chain too like guys like Hendrix you know guys like Cormier just like when Cor fought Henderson you're like what the [ __ ] who the hell has ever done that to Dan Henderson cormier's got him flying through the air he's hitting him with trips as he's moving back he's doing like a lot of crazy [ __ ] that you very rarely see that's when I think I realized how high level Cormier really is oh yeah no one's like you said no one's ever done that to Dan Dan's lost a couple fights but no one's ever been able to do that to Dan [ __ ] Henderson before that's also interestingly enough Dan off testosterone replacement he was one of the first guys that we've seen compete on and now off yeah and he had competed off before against Rashad Evans lost a decision against Rashad Evans a very close fight right um and that was uh because they were fighting in Winnipeg and Winnipeg's athletic commission didn't that's right but I you know I believe Dan when he says that he takes a very little you know I believe them I believe Dan too yeah I mean he was on it but a lot of these guys also one of the reasons why they test low is because they're overtraining absolutely and that's something that people need to take into consider itation when they discuss training protocols is that what's happening with a lot of Fighters is they're going through the same sort of thing that they went through in wrestling practice and what wrestling practice is fantastic for is developing mental toughness I believe there are no tougher athletes in the world than someone goes through higher level Wrestling Camps someone who goes through Purdue like a John Fitch you know when you you go through these [ __ ] camps you go through Iowa you know you go through these these high level Wrestling Camps amateur wrestling College Wrestling Camps those people are [ __ ] animals they have a level of mental
toughness that if you don't understand it they're going to wake up 15 minutes earlier than anybody else because they know that no one else is awake they're going to run an extra mile because they know no one else is going to run it they're going to they're going to do all these different things because they Pride themselves on being uncomfortable and then grinding it out and there's good in that but there's also bad in it and the bad in it is the the physiological reality of the body's ability to to recuperate and that if you tested any of these highlevel professional wrestlers or amateur wrestlers rather at at their highest level when they're going through camps I guarantee you a lot of them are going to have low testosterone absolutely I would agree 100 just because their bodies being broken down and it's just the sheer dogged determination of their own mind that allows them to get up every morning and keep doing it yeah look at Hendrick he when he fought Robbie fractured Shin torn bicep he had a fractured Shin too fractured shin and during the fight or from the fight from training in training he was fractured Shin torn by his partially torn by that would tore all the way during the fight and uh didn't even blink didn't complain one time the only way I found out was just kind of like in passing he was just joking about it you know any other athlete most of the other athletes they're canceling that fight they're pushing it back three months 6 months you know then that's and then Johnny goes out there and is able to get a win because of that mental toughness and that's one of the things that makes Johnny so [ __ ] great is that physically I mean he's a really strong dude but he's not tall he's not long you he's got fast hands you know he is fast but his feet aren't very fast he doesn't cut angles or move his head movement too well it's his his M it's his brain it's his mentality he's got that Championship mindset that's just been ground into him through a whole lifetime of wrestling well he T also his dad's a [ __ ] psycho that's [ __ ] awesome yeah you know it's funny well he had two options or three options wrestling wrestling or wrestling that's awesome well you could wrestle or you could wrestle or you
could wrestle and uh you know like how he made him do you know push-ups and sit-ups and chinups and [ __ ] when he was a little boy he was doing [ __ ] 500 push-ups I mean he just had that kid as a a youngster with a very high tolerance to work and just this this drive he pushed them so that everything else would be easy I mean he made it so everything at home all the training he did all the wrestling practices were so [ __ ] hard that everything else would be easy and look at him UFC [ __ ] middle welterweight champion and should have been the first time he fought GSP aged in my opinion I mean the he got the title with the Robbie Lawler fight but I thought he I thought he beat GSP yeah and the only people that disagree that I've talked to were people that were like in that henzo Gracie camp that were a little bit biased and thought that George won like round one which I didn't understand i i I think damage is more important than anything and I think Johnny without a doubt did more damage in that fight like they pointed to the the guillotine attempt in the first round but I didn't think that was a successful attempt I thought that was you know I thought it was never close it's like did you see um uh Scoggins versus John Moraga this last fight the first Guillotine was very close the second Guillotine locked it up George never had a guillotine like that you know what I'm saying it wasn't like one of those where it was like Scoggin barely got out of that first Guillotine where Moraga locked it up but he was in deep [ __ ] and then he caught him with the second one that's not what the kind of guillotine that Hendrick was caught in in that first round so I didn't understand anybody saying that they thought that GSP won a little biased I think you know sure but I'm biased towards Hendricks and I'll admit that but watching and trying to be impartial I think Hendrick clearly won and I believe George and some of his team I think they know because the two athletes when they walk out you know if you kind of won or lost and I think that one and it felt their their energy and just the way that they you know we interacted afterwards very professional respectful but I think they knew that Johnny had won that fight truly how do you tell a fighter to stop is there is there a time
where a fighter should be told to stop because if George was my friend I would tell George to stop yeah and the reason why I would tell George to stop is because we did some sort of a fight metric thing where we calculated all the times he'd been hit inside the octagon and he had been hit in the head 880 something times over the course of his UFC career yeah and I'm like what what's the number where a guy can walk because we talk to George now he's Lucid you know he speaks well but I know that he was having migraines I know that he was having memory issues yeah and um and I think there's only a certain amount of times a guy can fight there's only a certain amount of blows a guy can take and George if he stopped now could he have another fight yeah yeah he definitely could could he come come back and be great very possibly but could he come back and take some damage that 5 years from now we're going to see a a much compromise George and that's possible as well right probably I've had this conversation with athletes before and it's it's difficult and it's emotional and it's you know it's in their best interest and sometimes you know they've gotten mad but they know it's out of love and care and concern and it's there's a risk to reward and you know anytime an whether you're an amateur or you're making millions of dollars there's a risk and what is the reward is it some sort of personal challenge you trying to you know scare away a demon or you trying to provide a college you know education for your daughter these are things that they get put on the scale and they become intellectual conversations to have and then you say all right is this worth the risk but a guy like gspa I mean he's proven everything he's a legend yeah you yeah without a doubt he he really has proven everything he can prove I mean he can come back and beat other Fighters but is he ever going to elev the status of his Legend he's one of the greatest of all time if not the greatest welterweight of all it's him and Matt Hughes those are the two greatest welterweights of all time yeah and you know Matt is from a slightly different error their ER erors overlap but you know in my opinion Matt it was a GameChanger you know so I think he still goes down as possibly you know it's in
the debate for who's the greatest sure but George he's not going to ever Elevate where he's at where he's at is a [ __ ] all-time Legend you don't you he more of an alltime Legend I'll have one more fight he'll be another alltime Legend no he's an alltime Legend there you go I mean and as far as I know he's very wealthy I know he had to give a lot of money up to his [ __ ] former manager though ouch yeah and there's a lot of grossness involved in that man yeah i' had spoken about managers recently and it kind of got spun the wrong way I don't know if you heard anything no what you say talking to Ariel I said and the quote so I hope nobody out there's going to quote this out of context was athletes need to get rid of their need to fire their managers and hire attorneys and it wasn't meant to be that every athlete needs to get rid of the manager cuz I said there's some great managers out there but there's some managers out there that they have their hand too deep inside the athletes pocket where the athlete can't Excel and can't develop thems as a professional because they're spending 20 and 30% of their purse and all their earnings going straight to their manager and then the athlete has to pay for an attorney to come in and do contract review then they have to pay for an agent to come in and bring in sponsorship then they have to pay a striking jiu-jitsu wrestling strength coach then they have to pay their income taxes then they have to you know put food on the table for their family and you know at the UFC level where these contracts are much more strict and that's really what I was talking about was during the Kelvin Gastelum um comments was at the UFC level there's not a lot of negotiation room for most there's it's more of contract review legal and you know some of the managers came out and they said yeah you know they were pissed at me and I asked all all of them specifically I said how many of your clients have come to you because they're manager [ __ ] sucked and they're like oh [ __ ] A bunch that's what I'm talking about maybe you're awesome but at the same time these athletes they need attorneys to really look at the paperwork and yeah there's a building phase and you're getting them inform or you're getting them notoriety and such
to get to the UFC level but because you get them there doesn't mean that you should stay there and a guy like Mike pile he fired his manager a few fights back he talks directly with Joe silv does all the negotiation he gets to keep all of his money he makes more money now and he hires an attorney to and do the contract review and such on a per hour basis or per contract basis he speaks very openly about this he's one of the guys who's in the UFC and he's one of the higher paid athletes yeah out there doing it well you know obviously I love the UFC obviously um it's a huge uh it's a huge honor for me to to call the fights and to be a part of the organization but I think the only way that the UFC is ever going to satisfy the athletes I mean the only way the athletes are ever going to be in a situation where they're completely totally happy with what they get paid as if they're at the top of the Heap yeah I mean when people compare it to Floyd Mayweather like Floyd Mayweather made extra amount of money do you have many [ __ ] people or Floyd Mayweather one it's Floyd Mayweather and everybody else who fights him they take a drastically reduced purse and they're super lucky that they get that like whatever midna got for that first fight a million bucks or something like that biggest payday his career yeah and by the way that's not what GSP get for fights GSP got a lot Morey money than that like and GSP as big as he was is never the draw that Floyd Mayweather is Floyd Mayweather is a draw like internationally nationally he's gigantic I mean the the amount and and he's also the promoter I mean he's got a lot of [ __ ] going on unless a fighter becomes a part of a promotion I mean it's just not the same thing you know if the if the UFC like when Oscar De La Hoya was Golden Boy Productions and you know when he was fighting as well and making insane amounts of money in that sure is again is only one Oscar De La Hoya and there's also the UFC like it or not and I love it they're essentially the number one game in town and it's not like there's a close number two yeah whereas Bob arum Golden Boy you know there's there's all these different promotions The Money Team there's a lot of different promotions when it comes to promoting fights whereas the UFC is like there's Bellator you know Bellator is
not bad they're on Spike TV they're doing real good you know I'm a big fan of Scott Coker I'm a big fan of Spike TV but the reality is there's a goddamn huge who the [ __ ] is the UFC Heavyweight Champion Kane Vasquez who's the Bellator heavyweight champion I don't even know who he is I don't know who it is I know was it used to be Cole Conrad was he no maybe not even was was but he retired there was money Ben Asen used to be the welterweight champion now who's the welterweight champion now no idea is it Lima is it Douglas Lima God I couldn't tell you man W on leg kicks right was he the one maybe he did I mean I know he wins a lot he's world class without a Lima could compete with in my opinion everyone else in the world but B asran kind of Ragdoll him you know and B asran now is fighting for one FC so it's like the difference okay there's schlenk he's the the middleweight champion but someone from his [ __ ] Camp talked him into fighting Tito Ortiz hope he got paid for that just that was like I mean it's like a grown man fighting a a guy who is in high school that's what it looked like I mean Tito was [ __ ] enormous in that fight's probably truly a welterweight inside the UFC right yeah in my opinion and somehow or another he's fighting Tito when Tito got on top of him like this dude is not getting off the bottom Tito has very underrated submission skills as well he's good yeah he can knock him but huge disparity yeah just Giant and then I mean that's your middleweight champion you just saw your middleweight champ and get choked to sleep not good for anybody by a guy who could fight at heavyweight like what the [ __ ] are you guys doing like and they did that just to sell a pper viiew and the whole thing was just Preposterous and I think that uh you know unless that changes there's the the the the amount of money Fighters get like there's it's not going to be the the level that you're going to get in boxing until boxing in the UFC I mean until there's a I mean maybe it'll be one of the new Champions maybe it' be Ronda Rousey that gets your first her first $50 million cuz she kind of has that Transcendent appeal sure I mean she really is sort of transcending the sport she's the biggest star right now in MMA sure and it's because of what she does outside of the
Octagon as much as she does what she does inside and that's something I try and talk to athletes about the athletes that I hav't the ability to influence and that's what I see other athletes do a guy like Alan Belcher Alan Belcher makes far more money running his gyms in online training business than he does when competing as a professional athlete inside the UFC and he makes a good payday inside the UFC and the athletes they need to understand that they're as big or as good as they want to be and they can certainly build their brand in areas like yourself you find areas that you enjoy and that you're good at and where you're not good at yet but you want to be good at so you bust your ass to push your way into that field in that Niche and thetes they have more than enough time to do that whether it's flipping real estate like Bristol Mund is doing right now he's making who Bristol Mund Bristol Mundi was uh fought in UFC a couple times fought for Strike Force he was on The Ultimate Fighter a couple Seasons back um he's flipping real estate in Las Vegas there article came out about him recently he makes a shitload more money doing that than he does fighting and he's fighting because he enjoys fighting you know Alan belter what he's doing what Ronda is doing I think ronda's outside the Octagon money is going to eclipse what she makes inside the Octagon she's such an anomaly though I mean how many hot chicks can beat the [ __ ] out of dudes I know but she's going with what she has and there's a lot of athletes out there that can go with what they have they all have something look at what lwig did he went from being a highlevel fighter at the end of his career he transitioned to a coach and he'll be a much more successful financially and and you know business-wise as a coach growing his affiliate system building his brand that way and he made good money as a fighter as a top tier fighter knocked out Jen pver won the K1 Max uh North Americas I mean he did some really good things inside the sport so taking that that concept so if and I'm not you know showing for the UFC here but I'm saying if athletes are sitting home and they're looking at their paycheck at the end of the year saying they're not happy with it there's a lot of other ways that they can monetize that they can use their
brand they can use what they do to get out there and build and it's not sitting back waiting for sponsors to just hand them a check to put on a t-shirt or to hold up you know an energy drink there's other ways to go out there and take care of it yeah it's It's Tricky for fighters to find that and sort of explore that while they're also trying to improve their skill set improve their conditioning and and also to have the energy to do it people are [ __ ] exhausted after they're done training you know at the end of the day they're just like oh Christ absolutely it's hard to think of I mean I don't know how the [ __ ] Rhonda does it but that chick never runs out of energy I mean she's just a Dynamo yeah and that's also one of the reasons why she's so damn successful not just outside the UFC but as a fighter you know it's because she has that [ __ ] whatever it is and I don't know why I did that she's got that R it's more it's like whatever it is it's a monster there's a monster inside of her that comes out like legitimately she just happens to be hot yeah you know but it's all those other things that make her who she is you know and it's hard for people to find that she also has that sort of Personality that that polemic you know sort of like she's she's a controversial figure absolutely she's you know naturally you know she's naturally a [ __ ] you [ __ ] like that's her like all that [ __ ] she did with Misha Tate on the show or people like she's [ __ ] crazy yeah yeah guess what everyone's great is crazy they're all crazy when Jon Jones and Cormier when they had their uh their mics hot and they didn't know it and they they recorded that he like hey [ __ ] you still there like that's the that's you you guess what that's what you get y That's the kind of you want you want a guy who's a [ __ ] Destroyer like Jon Jones you're going to get that guy that's what you get that's those are the type of guys that win World titles those are type of guys that become the youngest ever UFC champion there you go those Jon Jones type characters I mean they're not they're they're naturally controversial absolutely they're not like the rest of us yeah fortunately or not that's what makes them special I agree but I I don't know why Jon is not more more um loved or popular than than
he is I don't understand it CU in my opinion I will never miss a [ __ ] Jon Jones pay-per-view yeah and I would think that anybody who like I've heard people say oh he's cocky oh he's this and I wonder what the [ __ ] is going on with that and I'm and I'm going to throw this out there I'm just going to say it I wonder how much of it is racism oh wow I really do you went there I did Dam I did you know why because I think they look at him as this cocky black guy okay and I think a lot of people have an issue with that and I think that if he was a white guy and he was doing the same thing Allah Chael sunnon I think he'd be way more popular and CH was never the the successful athlete that Jon is but I think that CH was way more successful as a promoter than J is and J has not been nearly as cocky or outwardly uh braggadocious as cha was but somewh or another when Chael did it first of all Cha's very entertaining very articulate be best [ __ ] talker bar nun in my opinion Combat Sports has ever seen absolutely I I've said he's better than Muhammad Ali and people like you're crazy I'm like I'm not crazy I'm telling you the truth I think he is a better [ __ ] dog as a fighter no no not the best fighter but as a [ __ ] talker I think he's one of the most articulate funniest [ __ ] talkers ever I mean I really do believe that do you think people CH resonated with the public because we all knew or felt in the back of our mind that he wasn't truly serious maybe and we were appreciating his art his skill of doing it where with John we think yeah maybe he's serious about this isn't he maybe and I'm a fan of John like you I'd love to watch that kid fight guy fight you know yeah he's a super and I think he he goes through a couple more wins and beats some tough guys if he beats Cormier he will become the Ali of our sport he has that type of young Brash outspoken Outlook and I I want to see the next you know chapter two or the second act of Jon Jones and then the third act I'm really excited as just a fan of this sport to follow his career follow his Arc and you know I'm I'm friends you know with Cormier of course also so I'm not going to pick a horse in that one but it'd be really interesting see how John goes it is without a doubt
I just find it I always found it odd when everybody would get upset at him and say that they didn't like that he's cocky or that he's just like he's 25 and he's the UFC light heavyweight champion he's the youngest ever UFC champion he destroyed Shogun to win the title and I mean destroyed he threw a flying knee and hit Shogun on the chin 5 seconds into their fight I mean Jon Jones is a [ __ ] period he's a [ __ ] but for whatever reason people have had an issue with that I know I'm going to get a bunch of hate tweets [ __ ] you you [ __ ] [ __ ] you [ __ ] what you got white guilt call out racism that's okay I'm still reeling from the [ __ ] pro wrestling fans mad at me for the last episode not really folks doesn't bother me uh pro wrestling fans are really mad at me cuz I was my friend Tony hinchcliff was on I was mocking him and joking around about pro wrestling I really don't just for the record I don't hate pro wrestling at all and I loved it when I was in high school when I was in high school I was a [ __ ] huge pro wrestling fan me and my friend stepen Arduino we would get together and [ __ ] he we're on a wrestling team together we'd always joke around about being Superfly off the ropes you know I was a huge wrestling fan but I was 14 you know do I watch it today no but I understand appreciate it I was busting my friend Tony's balls cuz it made for a fun podcast but the [ __ ] wave of misspell hate tweets that have come my way holy [ __ ] folks relax there's other things to be upset about okay I don't I'm not really up I'm not really mad at you settle down but um I'm probably going to get an equal amount from the Aryan race there you go mad at me for defending Jon Jones the cocky negro you know look I think that I really think there's something to that I think people want a guy who is so physically gifted and young and Brash and black and Rich they want him to have uh more humility or fake humility as it were and I think John's trying that A little bit that's one of the reasons why Cormier was like you are so fake like you're so fake like Cormier was saying that to him because he think he's trying to counteract how people feel about him it's got to be hard to be that young and successful and
still emotionally developing I don't want to say immature but he's still learning to be a man right in his own skin and to have that type of success so he is he deserves to be [ __ ] cocky for what he's accomplished no doubt well it's going it's it's inevitable that he's cocky if it's it's almost impossible not to be at that age and at that level of accomplishment I think everyone is evolving yeah I mean you evolve till you die you change and grow and learn if you're not you're you're you know you're stagnant and you're rotting away because I think I'm a better whatever I'm better at now I'm better than I was a year ago and if I was I'd be disappointed and I'm 47 I mean when I'm 48 I I guarantee you I'll be looking back saying whatever I do whether it's podcasting or comedy I'll be better at 48 than I am at 47 and when I'm not that it means I'm [ __ ] dying it means the gear stop turning the new Tropic stop working the testosterone Replacements failing [ __ ] there's going to come a a wall you're going to hit that wall I haven't hit it yet when I hit it I I'll know I hit it but I think that when a guy like Jon Jones is 30 looks back at who he was when he was 25 yeah he'll have said some things that he didn't think he should have said but the the trials and tribulations of being that guy are almost unimaginable to just to stress and this the the the pressures and all that jazz absolutely you know [ __ ] with now the scrutiny that's on a guy like that with all the social media available all the you know cameras in his face just the attention at a 25-year-old yeah all of us everybody listening at 25 we're all [ __ ] idiots and if you're 25 right now you're going to look back 10 years and be like Jesus I was idiot yeah you know so it's fun to watch you know what J's going through and I would love to see him just go straight heel [ __ ] you all you know double fingers up in the air I'm the best in the [ __ ] world [ __ ] you and not try and play not Pander to the the comments anymore not try and be the Christian dude not try and you know make people happy I think that's real though I think is a part of him look he has the [ __ ] biblical tattoo on his chest I don't think he put that there for a show I think there's part of him that really feels like that but there's also the
part of them that's this this remorseless Warrior sure you know there's both there's both of those things there a it's a constant conflict going on I mean I think he definitely tries to be a good person I think he definitely tries to be a good father I think there's definitely but he also is the the guy who choked leoda mashida to sleep you know he's he's also the guy that that submitted vtor Belford he he's also he's he's a real Destroyer he uh so when CH was fighting him I was I was helping CH for that one and John like wouldn't look at CH and like there's photo and I made a comment on the photo like you know Jones must be scared he's not even looking at CH just you know some you know hype in the fight and Jon saw me backstage and he's like man he's like what the [ __ ] he's like why you saying that I'm not scared of him like was you know in my face a little bit I'm like God damn champ like hyping [ __ ] just hyp in the fight bro right and then you know I see him like you know a week or two later and he was just such a sweet guy he's like man I'm sorry about that he was like I was hyped up in the fight I know you're just kidding around he's like I was just in that zone so the dichotomy of character you know in my face like you know [ __ ] you and then remorseful afterwards not far after he like man if you're really bad about that DOL you're a good dude like blah blah blah blah so yeah and I think that's real I don't think he was just doing like some sort of PR no it was we were alone there was nobody around nobody watching both times yeah it's not I don't think it's damage control I think you know it's a look the the unimaginable pressure of being that guy yeah you know and knowing there's Rumble Johnson's out there that are rising up putting people to sleep you know Rumble Johnson he's the scariest in my opinion he he can do things to you that other guys can't do absolutely that [ __ ] fight with him and Phil Davis opened a lot of people's eyes that was terrifying to watch Phil Davis just in this full defensive mode that we've never seen him in before Phil didn't get him down once did he no no he didn't even come close that's a scary man right there yeah and Rumble connects on anybody it's 99 what he did to [ __ ] little nog man woo I
mean people have beaten little nog but they haven't beaten the [ __ ] out of him like that no he beat the [ __ ] out of little nog and put him to sleep I mean that was terrifying yeah he's a terrifying guy absolutely it'd be fun to see started out he's a perfect weight cutting example he started out fighting as a [ __ ] welterweight weighing 230 lbs dropping down to 170 insanity and we spoke multiple times about the possibility of working and I told him no I don't think it's good and I think you should move up and I he's a good guy for anybody that doesn't know you just know the Persona of Anthony Johnson he's a really a good smart guy and he felt committed to 170 for whatever reason at that time but you know going to 185 205 and he's had success at heavyweight also right yeah yeah success heavyweight 205 I think that's where he's he's just a killer I you know obviously couldn't make 85 against B for back in the day 205 is just a nasty weight class for that dude and he's not a young he's not an old guy either he's still pretty young 30 yeah 30 and he's also emotionally very mature now he's a different guy and he's not you know he would get overwhelmed in fights like the cost check fight or some of the high pressure fights that he had before sure but I think also having the failure the losing his position in the UFC leaving going somewhere else and then deciding to fight all the way up at heavyweight yeah fought Andre lowski and [ __ ] him up as a heavyweight he's a monster man he's a [ __ ] monster Rumble Johnson and it's again he's gone through the Journey and he's become a better man because of that journey and talks openly about it I mean after he fought little nog and I I interviewed him he thanked the UFC for cutting him that's awesome he's like it's one of the best things that ever happened to him that made him wake up and realize what he was doing wrong and he was saying yeah and and I said about the weight cutting thing he he's like yeah don't cut so much weight he he open about it he's a [ __ ] big guy man [ __ ] big dude he's a big guy it's unim I I would see him in between fights it was unimaginable that guy can make 170 yeah he said he would go in the sauna for an hour just to lose a pound like back when he was making 70 oh my God just killing killing killing his
body to get it done yeah his body failed um one of the fights vtor or one of the fights where he didn't make weight his body failed like his leg stopped working like he couldn't walk you know I mean he was on death's door literally yeah literally that's [ __ ] how about Barra look we me we were almost out of time here but that's a perfect example of a guy who's [ __ ] up cutting weight the day of the weins they change opponents he gets pulled out of a [ __ ] title fight because he can't make weight and he falls asleep he blacks out getting out of the tub and bonked his head that's a comedy of errors right there not to point fingers I think the whole team has to accept responsibility for that taking the fight way too soon pushing for the fight taking the fight the kid had you know was concuss in the fight against the first fight against Dillashaw he's fighting 3 months later he should have been out for 6 months before they even scheduled even thought about scheduling a fight we all know that I agree 100% And then to have to cut all the way back down again there's no way we can expect his body respond I'm not sure how they cut weight but I know those guys they don't cut weight in the healthiest manner they really struggle and sacrifice to get down we see them all the time so they just tortured this poor [ __ ] kid and then you don't let an athlete just from experience you don't let an athlete stand up athletes if you're in the bathtub you roll out of the bathtub onto the floor and you slowly stand up you use hand grips you have two people in there to help you stand never should a coach's hand be off you and whatever cream allegedly they put on them that stuff Aline and stuff doesn't work I have the analytics to show it I'm not bashing any companies but well abene is not designed for weight cutting no it's not it's a moisturizer it's a moisturizer and it's a lot of these old wives Tails that's the Epson salt and alcohol rubbing alcohol like I was talking the story before about aloe vera so you put alcohol in the tub and what that does those fumes they create respiratory distress they tons of headaches Chris CI was he was like what the [ __ ] man they came in they put alcohol in the tub he's like now I got a now I got a headache because of what Al
Vera's team did downstairs in the spa at the [ __ ] hotel it they poured it in the the spa at the hotel where everybody else got in there deal with that yeah oh my God it's just like insanity what what world is this come on you're Prof salts is good for you it's a natural source of magnesium it's good to take EPs and salt baths it's one of the best ways for your body to absorb magnesium it's one of the added benefits of sensory deprivation tanks because the the this the salinated water is EPs and salts you actually your body actually absorbs magnesium it's a great way to get it your skin it's not going to make you lose additional weight and that's something and we can argue back and forth and people listening I do that all the time try to do the same tub with the same temperature in the same physical state with and without the EPs and salts and watch what you lose it's going to be almost identical and you have all this documented okay I do well that's the difference you a lot of these guys that are you know these weight cutting guys and these people that people get brought in is the amount of documentation that you have and the amount of just raw data just from dealing with very ious athletes yeah it's it's all everything we do is databased it's databased it's experience based it's research based I mean it's it's proven and then it's it's never perfected but it's always evolving what worked last time against you know with everybody well that's what we're sticking with and if something was an anomaly well we consider it and we look into look into it we research it but we don't add it to New protocol who's is there any failure that you've had like is there one any one fighter that you worked with you're like man I wish I could go do that one again um I've never had an athlete Miss weight other than myself freshman year high school in the state wrestling tournament I don't think that counts I'm not going to take you back to freshman year high scho so no athlete under my watch has ever missed weight but the one I would like the the redo I mean the Hendrick one in Dallas I would have loved to have make weight on the first time with that one but there was a whole comedy of errors and well also you got to stop to think about the fact that he was pretty seriously injured yeah torn bicep crack sh pretty
[ __ ] crazy in the first place absolutely medical checks in the middle of the day we had to stop cutting and then start cutting again we left the scale this is our fault for leaving the scale in a clo in open in a closed or open gym sorry with a bunch of Knuckleheads jumping on his scale so there was quite a few things in looking back that we could have done better I would have loved to have rewound that one um you know I should have got in had another commissioner come over and check the scale again when the first commissioner called him at 171 and a or 171 and A2 which he wasn't 71 and A2 he was 70 and a half and he had his underwear on there was quite a few guys who had issues with that scale in all fairness there was a backstage scale that weighed very different than the onstage scale which can happen occasionally and it's a real issue like people were calling for calibration for recalibration and they're like we can't recalibrate that does happen certain commissions and time to time it's really It's Tricky You Know It's Tricky it's it's all it varies with commission a lot of folks don't realize that like when you see like a few Fighters Miss weight it often times because the backstage scale is different like they thought they were wrong they were fine and they get on the onstage scale and it's a different wait absolutely and we've seen I've been at events and I won't say the promotion where the scale got dropped and then you step on you get on the scale you know the the early day pre- weins the scale got dropped somehow you know between the venue and the you know the hotel and now all of a sudden it's got a crazy reading like you're saying right now um the last minute the scale gets switched because it gets you know goes to the wrong place or it doesn't get through so I've seen almost every odd issue I've been at you know I don't even know how many weigh-ins now and it's not as easy to weigh in properly when you're trying to keep the athlete as healthy as possible you're not just trying to get the athlete to 170 lounds and just leave him there for four hours you're trying to minimize that period as much as possible and really just skim the top of the weight and let them bounce right back up because we're trying to preserve their health which is
going to increase their ability to perform to the best of their ability so you know like with Hendrick and the weight it was a matter of get him out of here get them Cal again because he's freezing cold it was so cold in that place freezing cold shaking um on the scale the chaos begins title fight on the line let's get him out of here let's calm him down and then let's get the weight off of him let's keep him healthy let's keep him confident let's keep him happy and and get him back on so that that's what I would like a redo and when you got a guy like Hendrick that has a torn bicep and a ction how close were they to not taking that fight that was wasn't even a consideration what was he going to even if the arm was like completely useless is he going to just fight with his left he was going to go and fight with one hand yeah [ __ ] that's [ __ ] Johnny Hendrick that's why I love the kid there's no quit in him no matter what there's just no qu but that seems like ridiculous like if you have a torn ACL and you can't move you fight anyway if I was if it were up to me I I wouldn't let my athlete fight in that one and that's either good or bad we could debate that also I'm not going to put an injured athlete out there to get his bicep torn off and possibly ruin or possibly lose his only opportunity to fight for a world title let's say Robbie went out there won that last round or Johnny had to default because he tore the bicep and couldn't lift his arm ref saw that judge saw that medical you know doctor saw that called the fight on the on the stool crazy things happen and then he loses his bid and now he goes to the backed line he's got to fight three four fights against it stack division maybe he never gets there again so that would be one consideration but a guy like Johnny man two-time NCAA Division One National Champion he goes out there and he knows how to get it get it done and that's ultimately he's the boss that's the mental toughness that comes with that amateur wrestling background that we were talking about it's really it's a real thing it's real they are all of them all the me me all all amateur wrestling champions are [ __ ] mentally strong they special special breed of human absolutely and it's crazy it's cuz like there's you know we're talking about how you should rest and you should
train smart you shouldn't overtrain but it's like the overtraining is what made them so mentally strong and that becomes one of their biggest weapons so it's such a catch 22 Yeah I think the the genetic superiors rise in that area I think a lot of I mean not many guys actually make it to that the top of that Podium um and the genetic Superior make it to the top where they're able to be the anomaly the outlier where the rest of us were just not able to we break somewhere along the way due to whatever reason um but it's not in their best I don't think it's it's part of the proper longevity protocol you know you see a lot of wrestlers in their 50s and 60s and they're kind of [ __ ] up [ __ ] up Dan Gable's [ __ ] up [ __ ] up but they got Olympic gold medals and they have some things that some of us will never have so it's the risk to reward well Mark Coleman's like what 48 49 he has a hip replace already yeah it's crazy yeah it's crazy still wrestling with it he's a a crazy [ __ ] right he's an animal it's the same thing what we're talking about that they're tough [ __ ] um this I don't know if this is real or not um is or I have a question is there is like a piece of protein um like say like uh 10 ounces of fish versus 10 o of lamb or some or or elk or game meat is there a high higher quality protein is some protein more effective do some animals do they have more energy I mean is there more energy in a grass-fed piece of beef versus a cornfed piece of beef yes and this is now my opinion based upon a lot of scientific research there's other research that says the opposite so now we're just going to throw it up in the air so My Philosophy the Dolce Diet principles number one is Earth grown nutrients and that's eating real food from its natural source and its natural habitat raised and bred in the natural way you cannot beat that when it comes to nutrient quality nutrient density and that's what we always go after so I want line caught fish salmon primarily that's one of my top Choice line caught salmon excellent grass-fed beef and when I say grass-fed beef or meat I want that Roaming In you know the the trees somewhere and I want to you know take it out myself with a bow or with a bullet where it doesn't even know any humans within 100 miles that's the best possible so there's no
anxiety there's no cortisol there's no stress State there's no you know it's eating the exact food it's supposed to be um it has no illness no injuries no you know disease no chemicals um same thing really anything W with your vegetables with your spinach with your your blueberries the most natural cannot be beat and that's what really you know defines my n that's the number one principle if you're only eating earth grow nutrients real food and you don't pay attention to the time of day you don't pay attention to the quantity you're going to be much better off than most of the other people but is there more more energy in say like a piece of elk than there is in Lime CAU salmon is there more energy in grass-fed beef than there is in Lamb is is that quantifiable I don't believe so and what we do is we eat as much of it in moderation as we can so I want the elk I want the salmon I want the lamb I want the chicken I want the turkey I I want all of it I don't want to have just the beef every day and just the eggs every day so you like mixing it up you have to mix everything because each one has a nutrient profile and I want all of the those nutrients to cycle through my body not just one type because you can build up some sort of allergy um or you build up you can be create a deficiency so as much of everything as possible whatever's local is best what's ever in season is best because that again has a higher nutrient quantity so whatever seasonal that's what we typically cycle through have you ever had to uh work with someone like a jake Shields who tries to fight as a vegan he's sort of vegan he eats eggs sort yeah I speak with Jake um toyed with it a little bit never worked together officially um do I work with any specific vegans no I do I mean not professional athletes but in you know our normal business that we do we have some vegans and that's pretty easy a lot of my recipes are vegan Centric um which is easy to do but if you're a combat athlete it's really hard to excel it's possible if you're an outlier but it's very POS very hard to Excel without that animal protein and most vegans agree with that it's very difficult unless you're dogmatic about your sourcing of nutrition it becomes a full-time plus job in order to eat the right Foods at the right time and you
have to go to the market you always have to have that Supply you can't miss meals because your body's just constantly breaking down and is it harder for them also to get a high enough calories from their proteins and things along those yeah it's harder for them to get they have to have what's called complimentary proteins you have to get multiple nutrient sources in order to get all the the amino acids like pea protein and hemp protein and rice protein and all these different powers and stuff they mix in so vegans need a very diverse diet in order to make sure they're getting all the proper nutrients it just becomes a lot of work and Jak said that it's just a lot of work and even then is it is it is it 100% what you would get if you were eating elk and steak and chicken I don't believe so I think it's I personally and I've never lived a 12 month I've lived for three months as a vegan and it was very difficult I I leaned out I lost a lot of weight I lost a lot of power output my endurance went up I mean my my blood panel looked awesome so it was definitely a give and take um I didn't do it for a full 12 months which I think would I would really have to go through all four seasons to truly understand and feel it um and uh you know so I know Fitch tried it for a while but then he went back to meet he said he feels much stronger much better yeah you know so many vegans were like tweeting Fitch they were loving it that he was vegan like we love that you're a vegan man it's amazing and then afterwards he's like [ __ ] this sucked it's hard to do I lost weight I'm not as strong I'm not as AGG I don't have as much energy it goes and now I feel much better now that I'm eating meat again they're like sad face sad face vegans get bummed out if you're not a vegan anymore they get B when they lose one of theirs they get [ __ ] bump they love when they get one but when they lose one man it hits them hard it's tough it's tough and I do believe that there's a life force also that comes from certain foods I do believe that maybe it's a placeo I think it's true that I think I've had this philosophy which total Bro Science on my part but my philosophy is that things that run quicker are better for you yeah cuz that's why there's a reward for getting them that's why before people figured out Nets and hooks
and lines it's really hard to catch a fish and if you caught a fish [ __ ] strong protein you catch a salmon that's very high in protein essal and I mean a piece of uh elk has uh less cholesterol and more protein than the same piece of chicken that weighs the same amount that you can catch easily enough yeah yeah I agree with that and Bro Science absolutely probably but you know until science maybe cheetah is the best [ __ ] for you maybe we should start eating cheetah could be it could be maybe well I know they eat mountain lion mountain Li everybody thinks that like Hunters that kill mountain lions or [ __ ] but first of all you need to control the mountain lion population otherwise they kill all the deer they kill all the pigs they kill everything mountain lions are [ __ ] but also people eat it they eat Mountain line it's supposed to be really delicious huh I never had it never had it either is that a Colorado thing no it's you know places like Colorado for sure Utah places where they hunted on a regular basis they choose uh mountain lion um over uh pig in a lot of places they really like it yeah it's supposed to like the backstraps the the loin from mline it's supposed to be delicious we ran out of time my friend if people want to get a hold of you how they get a hold of you on Twitter it's the Dolce diet.com the Dolce Diet on Twitter and Facebook and all all the places that you normally and is that your book that you have there that is that is for you my friend it's 3 weeks to shredd it our new book that's out right now it's it details the Thiago Alves weight cut and also the one I had done previous so it's the original and the expanded version dude we could do about 15 more of these well I'm sure and when more things come up and more issues nutritionally or exercise wise or let's do it than you much my friend really appreciate it Mike Dolce ladies and gentlemen thank you sir um you know how to get a hold of him thanks to our sponsors thanks to Squarespace go to squarespace.com for and enter the code word Joe squarespace.com enter the code word Joe for a free trial and 10% off your first purchase thanks also to Legal Zoom use the code word Rogan in the referral box at checkout save yourself some money my friends money money money
speaking of money you will also save some money with naturebox.com Rogan go there get 50% off your month's first box of nutritious and yummy delicious [ __ ] okay we will be back my friends Min manyi podcast this week Tim Bernett from solo Hunters is here on Thursday Jo Rosa will be here on Wednesday until then Mah big kiss have fun take care see you