Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH5dBdpIiJw
hey everybody this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website used to be a long time ago it was a real pain in the ass to get a website if you want to get a website you had to find someone who knew how to make one they had a code it in HTML it was a nightmare and then they started making these programs like Dreamweaver and all these are very difficult to learn and try to figure out how to put it together and then if it worked it wouldn't work on certain platforms now Squarespace has that all covered and anybody I mean you me any person can if you can attach a photo to an email you can make a beautiful professional-looking website it's very simple drag-and-drop interface they have 24/7 support there they work on windows mac pc iphone android very easy to do about as easy as you can get they also have it available so that you can create your own online store quick and easy created in minutes they have a logo creator we can create a clean simple logo design for yourself in minutes every design automatically includes a unique mobile experience that matches your overall style of your website so your content will look great on every device at every time and for a free trial and 10% off your first purchase go to squarespace.com and enter the code word jo at squarespace.com and enter the code word Jo we're also brought to you by on it onna is a human optimization website what we sell is strength and conditioning equipment health and fitness supplements we just try to sell what we find to be the best things available whether it's kettlebells we sell kettlebells both the regular kettlebells that we sell and we also have primal bells and zombie bells these artistic kettlebells that are the primal bells are the great ape collection gorilla orangutan chimp and howler monkey very cool to look at cool to hammer on the gym they look good and they're functional 3d mapped kettlebells so it's not like they're out of balance just for the sake of looking cool their 3d balanced the best kettlebells you can buy and when you use them you can be content that when the apocalypse comes these [ __ ] things will be still here
there's solid metal it will last forever and they're excellent we sell the best supplements that we can find the best hemp forest protein powder we have a new item called a warrior bar it's made the ancient Lakota way it's a buffalo supplement bar so like if you you know you're on the run and you need to get some food in your body and you just want to have a snack that's not negative and not nasty for you this warrior bar has 140 calories 4 grams of fat per serving and 14 grams of protein all healthy no MSG no soy no lactose no nitrates no antibiotics no added hormones super super healthy for you and like all things that on it we just find whatever we can that is the best version of whatever that is for sale and then we sell it we try to sell it to you at the most reasonable rate possible if you use the code word Rogan you will save 10% off any and all supplements all right why play around Hicks and Gracie's here ladies and gentlemen and my brother Eddie Bravo cue the music Jamie let's get going the Joe Rogan experience trained by Joe Rogan podcast by night [Music] all right we like first of all thank you very much for doing this I appreciate it out of all the people on line when whenever you know things get brought up for mixed martial arts guess or jiu-jitsu gasps it's always get Hicks and Gracie on the podcast so the the clouds have parted the Stars have aligned and you're here and we appreciate it very much I'm very thankful to Joe and Eddie to be with you guys here and have this conversation it's it's funny because last time we talked and my house why we go of course you you make me some questions you Q use you you all about knowing what is what has in my mind and at this point I was the talker and you know in the past and the time goes by and today I can see after all this process of evolutionary process in the MMA and the martial arts world I mean since then I've been watching you doing your job commenting fights analyzing other fighters and today I can see man you a red belt in the whole and the whole extension of the world you know everything you mean if I have a question I have it to coach I call you and ask you what's up because I'm very very I
mean impressed with your career with your charisma with the way you you position your opinions it's all very precise so I'm very happy to be here and discuss some talks and talk with you thank you brother that's an honor to me and it was an honor for me to hang out with you that night it was really cool for we had dinner with your family and then we watched some fights yeah and it was really interesting watching fights with you and watching you break down positions and break down mistakes that people were making and I've told a lot of people about that man I'll tell a lot of people about that night your that documentary choked that is one document that I've told people if you're really interested in jiu-jitsu you really want to find out you know what what the spirit of jiu-jitsu is all about watch the documentary choke that documentary is so inspirational they followed you was in 94 95 yeah 95 going to 96 95 going into 96 and you were fighting in Japan in the Japan Valley to do–and it documented a lot of your training and documented your philosophy and man whenever if ever I need some motivation I'll just lock that DVD on you just get fired up you want to go do some yoga on the beach or something yeah you know it's fine how did that come about what that documentary Oh was a project with a student of mine who was working with the the poly grin and also so he decided we decided to follow up to the event and so we we had they have a crew following couple fighters and and follow myself to see what's going to happen at the event so was a nice introduction to a preparation to the mindset of a fighter either myself or the Todd Haynes with another and also that Japanese guy who was also involved in the and they filming so was a cool primal experience true to am MMA fight like I value to the fight well it's very eye-opening for a lot of fighters who looked at mixed martial arts a lot of them come from a wrestling background and they looked at mixed martial arts more of like as a sport just be tough you know you got to get up you gotta train hard you got to run hard you got to live hard and your philosophy was much more like a samurai your philosophy was much deeper much
more meditation based and we got to see you doing yoga you you I think you opened up a lot of people's eyes to different mindset involved in preparation but also to yoga that was the first time I had ever seen a martial artist that was really into yoga yes I think for the athlete in general the breathing understanding of the breathing is a big plus because stretch or your I mean by hyperventilate you stretch your physical potential by know how to breathe properly you relaxed you can bring your heart heartbeats lower is a lot of elements in the breathing who are involved with controlling emotions getting more energy and so on so as I get exposed to breath too reading properly I get addicted and I felt like was a huge element of you know to in addition to the techniques in addition to the heart and to the heart training learning the breathing is a huge beneficial thing for the athlete now you see athletes like tennis players they who they play in breathing and the breathing the breath is much more into the sport today so it's a process of no and now I see clone my son he's I mean before he's just like CEO that I see you training and breathe but now he's coming to me said that make all the difference in the world when I really you know starts getting tired to make hyperventilation and keep my mind like sharp because sometimes if you get tired there's not enough oxygen in the blood to fuel your your sharpness in your mind so you become a little stupid a little slower you know so by having a good knowing how to hyperventilate you're able to to maximize this this oxygen so even though there's logic take over your body your mind is too sharp and you still responding accordingly so it's a great thing to do and you were born into the greatest jiu-jitsu family the greatest martial arts family of all time I mean there's no doubt about it there's no there's not even a second place there's the Gracie family and then there's you know this is a I guess you could have a debate about who comes in second but it's kind of ridiculous that is the number one martial arts family of all time and you obviously learned jujitsu from a very early age but how did you get involved into the yoga always you know was I'm very happy to to be related with this master call Orlando
Connie which was the precursor of the genus kana to da I was learning in the same time Alvaro hermano who is the guy who is now making the tape so we learning together you know and at that point was just practicing with him like helo made my father he's a water guy who's a very tough athlete and also yoga teachers so he combined he developed some kind of style of yoga which is not exactly a postural like postures and breathing to relax or to achieve meditation was more like a at the active breathing for athletes and in order for you to jump higher you have to know how to to have our mony between your your jump and your breathing you want to keep more strength for more a long time you have to know how to breathe a quarterly to to promote that so here as always he always in the active active breathing and then we kind of we started doing privates and I was in his place for you know for couple of months he's guiding me through the the moves in front of a mirror in a nice room one day we about to start the class and soon who is about to start he he was calling the phone and he said to me Hickson you keep going and I'll be right back so for the first time I was able to breathe make my routine without follow him up without having my mind focused and what he was doing so I started to breathe and move and breathe and move and then we had some woods on the walls kinda we can imitate monkeys to climb the wood and stuff so in one point I come back to reality and then I was on top of the highest frame in the wall sweating like a pig and then I look around and start to come back to reality and I saw him on the corner crying and then I said what's up man what's going on I said man you don't have to learn anything else from me you achieve the highest level of kept get empty mind and then I kind of said why say that said yeah because you here for an hour 50 minutes and completely off I mean you didn't notice anything because he was applying the development of the animal instinct which takes your brain off your your mind your your concentration and keep you more like a instinctive animal and that's what's the the and through this because before that I was doing Transcendental Meditation I
did traditional yoga and and those never did great for me in the meditation I was sleeping and it's not by doing that kind of routine I was able to not just breathing properly but also achieve empty mind and I was like in a state a meditation meditation state for a long time like not concentrating in anything like rational oh he's there or he's so I was able to get achieve like I empty mine and after I noticed that I start to practice my routines to to get that same feeling of emptiness and that kind of meditation works for me as no no other one and I felt like being an empty mind increases my my I don't know my intuition increases my my sense of of energy and so what's incredible for me because I could get in touch more comfortably with my I mean my third vision I don't know exactly explain but I could achieve a completely peace of mind in that kind of routine so I was stick for life so you just got into this state and you could just exist no conscious thought no thinking about anything around you no past no future just exist is in our moment with no contact yes and that's a kind of weird positive feeling because you capable to be present in a sense which if you have your mind set if you have something expectations or or you never there so I was able to to be very confident very easily to get into that situation where even prior the fight I'm able to sleep on the on the locker room making my workout getting a high very high heartbeat and then like five minutes before I make my praise I make my meditation and I kind of cool off my heartbeat to 60 60 heartbeats a minute so I was able to engage very hot and with the heart very hard no heartbeat and as the fight progress the pace is very hard if I'm sixty he is 80 when I'm 80 he's a hundred when I'm a hundred he's a hundred to any when I'm 120 he's a 45th so when he started we have to regroup I was still having to go forward so and that point my opponents always lose a little bit his pay so at that time for me to make the kill you know so was always working properly for me the breathing was always working very well so this empty mind stay enhanced your jiu-jitsu this ability to achieve this state on top of all the techniques on top of all the training and the instincts this took it to the next level
yes because you know in one point if you allow yourself to be present you not commit to the offense or the defense you commit you give nothing and take everything so you give me opportunity I will be there if you try to be surprising me I will be there a quarterly defending myself so it's all on the table is like no surprises because there's no expectations so keeping a cool mind even when it's boiling is something I felt like was always like something which give me an edge because I was there just to either catch what is there or resolved the problem never disappoint or never late no expectation yeah and it's always late I mean sometimes you get late because you playing something in a fight and doesn't happen so if Paul is you start to be disappointed so for me it was always like whatever happened I'm there I'm happy comfortable finding comfortable finding the sharpness true to achieve success you know so you grew up in this jiu-jitsu family but you were always at least from most people's interpretation you were always the best guy out of the family how did that happen how did you rise above all the rest I mean you grew up with a bunch of killers yes everybody's training hard everybody was pushing to the maximum and for one point I feel like I was dead get it and for perfectionist I'm competitive in my heart but some elements I get was more like a god a god gift is not exactly something I choose so we training out the same why my brother I can play with my ball brothers and they cannot have a chance with me so that's kind of hard to explain it's not me trying to do this this just happened it's my is myself being trying to be my best plus the emotional control the peace of mind it was all you know for example my love my my beloved brother hilar he's a great fighter but sometimes they get too emotional you know and thats kind times makes him choose the hoenn the wrong path so choice here's a you know great fighter but sometimes he he get a little confused he's not having the sharp offensive attitude doors so sometimes something sleep you know and so on so I not exactly know why I'm I'm the one I just have to represent and be you know happy to be the one and I tell you man all the opportunities I have to represent I did
already so I feel like completely comfortable and in myself saying okay I have nothing to prove to myself I did all and you know I'm very happy with the results so jiu-jitsu for life for life indeed that's an on Jamie your you had a cousin holes Gracie the legendary holds great who's actually holds is Indiana he's Mike my cousin but he was living in my house since I born because my uncle as he his he divorced from his wife he hollered halls mother he give my father was just get marry so he give halls true to be care to my father and mother so he was like a brother so he's my older brother because Harden coming just after and then how soon and then when I born like 8 years 9 years later I was the the little one living with hogs hot and in house and for a full you know so is my brother is no way to see him differently he was known as a guy who went all over the world studied [ __ ] studied us some catch wrestling his wrestlers and he would bring that back right yes what would you credit holes in in bringing leg locks in to Brazilian jiu-jitsu is he the one yes I mean the leg locks he specifically was not something I I kind of get the the major information from halls was funny one day Eric Paulson was a good student and a very good friend he brought a tape for me from Japan we've we've shot – mm-hmm shot – wrestling and I saw did the knee locks in the show – wrestling you know some guys fighting and I saw and I kind of interesting and then next day I start to apply it and then what's funny because he comment to me afterwards said he you mean I give you the tape one day next day we're submitting everybody on the knee locks oh really yeah well you you would say you learn more leg locks from Eric Paulsen tape than holes yeah I mean it was not specifically I let lock guy you know there's a picture of him with a sambar surety yeah yeah study he was a master of [ __ ] because no no we go in sambal as we go and any other we go in representing jiu-jitsu against sambal you know and in the pan-american games we went in San Diego was like very interesting because the fighters they don't expect so much submissions and we start immediately because tough wrestlers tough judo players so we start
immediately bringing the fight to the ground ground and go four foot locks and knee locks and immediately I mean in the first qualification phase they started tapping a lot and then the referee's statue becomes kind of little skeptical about that they start to become one so once halls grabbed them and then the footlok especially in the in the final match in his weight division he get the guy in the footlocker the referee stopped the fight and said now you cannot get the foot lock on the joint you have to get on like on the shin and then it's kind of confusing you know and cutting the that's why halls lost the finals in this event and this is what in the 70s was I think eighties so they just they were trying to cut him out by yeah the referee started getting upset because like was funny we supposed to come in with a team from Brazil of 12 guys and we spare expecting like a support from the government and then the governor at the very last very last moment didn't didn't give to us so my father paid us to come so just me Carlos Gracie Joyner and hogs so we come in to compete in this event and hold were you at this time you must have been like 18 or something yes 19 or something like that and then we coming and I was in the like my weight division which is 1 above halls and halls was below me and Carlos was on top of me so we kind of having one in each division and as the competition progress the referees that you see those three guys from Brazil just submitting everybody because in Samba chokes are not allowed no headlocks no CH no color chokes use only knee locks foot locks or straight arm bars cannot even do the Americana's because goes English so we just go in trying to do foot locks because those are the easiest way so we start to finish the guys and they start to say oh this guy's coming and do food and everybody may complain I don't know if but a Samba though isn't somehow worth it yeah that's what I do is footlong it's now now back then there wasn't fair it's it's it's so interesting how wait a minute that's changed no was legal what was not used especially in the Samba in American concepts Russia maybe yeah you know American song
focus on what mostly they are more like him to control the rules are if you pin the guy for 30 seconds it was like wrestling not as it's longer but he was to win like judo and as you if attempt the peon every time the guy passes the back on the ground you're still making points so in my final match I guess the guy from the air force very strong guy which maybe rascally and judo background and he was whipping my ass man he's just like in the first like three rounds three minutes in the first round he stay on top all the time and because being in the guard you losing points the score is about twelve or fourteen points in the first round in the second round is about eighteen or twenty I tell you in the very final round I was about 26 or something points against zero you know and I was just trying to do my thing and then one like maybe a minute before the very final man round I slap him and mounted and he is at the same time I mounted he's tried to push me away and I get like a moving arm lock and he's not even tap he's just yell so and then I win the fight like in a very final second and you were down twenty something yes like points are not even chance I thought I'm not there to winning by points I was there just to see if I can submit it's it's fascinating and then the guy tapped like 15 seconds before the fight is in and then like the whole crowd was and then everything kind of whoo and then just few guys fun so when Eric Paulson showed you these tapes of shootout in the 90s probably you already you were already doing leg locks a little bit I'm not really I very like foot locks I always like straight foot lock yes and then what Eric Paulson showed you was like fancy knee bars and stuff yes because from the guard you just spin around and go with a straight knee law yeah so I get a may I get amazed by this kind and I start to develop you know very quickly was just adapt to my game and was an an addition to the the Arsenal you know what's great it's funny when you look back at old Eric Paulsen fights from Japan you look at the stuff he was doing and people today still aren't even doing that he's way ahead of the game to it Eric Paulsen was an encyclopedia submissions him and Matti home yep those guys back then it looked like like
advanced jujitsu and of course you know anytime you got the mount there was always an armbar you know yeah buts about that but you know at that time Eric was being training very consistently for us he's a good good brother in a training partner who's always being a great warrior and I have a lot of respect for him great guy very very knowledgeable yeah isn't it fascinating that we've seen just in the time that I started training it from 96 on this adoption of leg locks in jujitsu yes in the early in the 90s it used to be that leg locks were frowned upon when someone went for leg locks people get really upset Hickson were you at the first Pan American Games in 1996 in or 1997 here in El Segundo in LA you must have been there right do you remember that yes there was the first Pan Americans there was like 500 Brazilians they shipped them all they and there was the crazy thing is I was a blue belt in jujitsu and I saw ken Shamrock tape of a photo hold so I was a blue belt doing toe holds jean-jacques Machado's academy and i competed in the tournament and so did Eric Paulson and when I went for a toehold in this tournament all the Brazilians started throwing there was almost a riot they called the cops never throwing shoes at me and Johnnie Machado I'll never forget him running and slow-motion sliding and I had the tone and Johnny goes you gotta let it go you gotta let slide the toehold and I'm looking around so I let it go people are throwing shoes at me and water bottles and stuff it was like a big deal and I ended up losing I let it go and afterwards Eric Paulson's in the parking lot it was just me and him he was a blue belt as well and he was like his kid we were like the same age but he was like I was like a little kid he's like you know let me talk to you kid and goes let me show you a couple leg locks so he showed me a couple things like this weirdest leg lock that doesn't work and he admits it now that it was garbage but he showed me this leg lock he showed me this Glock will you go like this is weird thing in the parking lot and I'll never forget that it's like man this guy's the only guy who understands that that I liked old and and he was on my podcast not too long ago and he said
and I asked him about that movie do you remember that movie goes oh yeah it's it's garbage it's trash how these ideas they get innovated and within our lifetime they started getting implemented and they get weeded out the ones that work wind up staying the ones that don't work fall by the wayside what do you think about the IBJJF banning heel hooks that's a good thing I like I like to first of course the pleasure to talk about all this and I can answer that because I feel like the Hugh hooks has to be implementing the top level fighters because that is a solid technique but because it is designed to stretch the ligaments not the joint is a different between you going in your finger this way is gonna you wanna feel pain before it brokes yeah but if you go this way you're gonna resistant to pops so it's just ligaments it's not a joint this is a joint this is a ligament so when you twist the knee the guy can still resist and when he feels are gonna fill the pot it's not gonna feel the pain chew tap so this is in a way if you don't have the experience you wanna bust your knee so we don't want to see guys with busted knees just because they tough or just because they don't know so we for beat in a hole the Hugh hooks but in the in an advanced at level like metamoris or like premium pros a Budda Budda I think they should back bring back in because this is part of the game and you have to be responsible to let a broke or tap and especially a guy like Toki know when you see Paul Harris he's such a master at it it's exciting to watch that guy fight to see how guys are gonna deal with that well Abu Dhabi still allows heel hooks right allows your metamours I my experience I've been teaching now ten years and we've I allow Hill hooks from day one only because I as an instructor I don't want some leglock guy coming into my school and tapping everybody out with leg locks so I wanted all my guys to be very well versed in leg locks and in my experience we reap we kill hook white belts I can't even tell you the last time someone got hurt from a heel hook I can't I don't even know maybe maybe once in ten years yeah that that kind of education its kind of positive because give the guy the sense he has to if he feels the problem has to tap in advance yeah you cannot allow to the pop
happen because you're gonna bust your knee and Onaga and grapplers quest they allow heel hooks and you rarely ever hear about anybody getting hurt I think I think once you learn how to defend it it's actually people don't want it people will tap generally and some people that don't tap like Gary tonin was talking about the first time as someone got him in a heel hook and his knee popped a few times he thought well if I tap now it already popped why should that tap I should just keep going now and if someone I think if someone's gonna let their knee pop or get hurt I think it's their responsibility to tap and and if it pops is is it really a big deal I mean it's part of the game people get hurt people get their knees blown out in basketball way more than jiu-jitsu again soccer yeah I again in 10 years I I can't even tell you that maybe leg compressions a couple times guys have had their knees pop from leg compressions and even locked down I've had a couple guys get their knee popped but Hugh hooks and reaping that's not something that I ever had to say we got to slow down be careful with the knee Reeves just no one really gets hurt what seems to be a technique that when people were ignorant of it that's when people are really getting hurt yeah yeah well sometimes Kwan when they really want to go for the heart they don't want they don't visualize that the possibilities should hurt so they go and go full power from the beginning to the end so it's not even a chance to the guy tap he's already tapping late so that's more like the mindset of the the guy who's attacking if he wants to break your knee is a great chance to do that in a human and when we were adding wrestling to our jujitsu classes trying to combine it now we separate we have separate wrestling classes and separate jiu-jitsu class but at a time when I was trying to combine it together we would have a day where we just do wrestling and we do live wrestling drills and while standing up that's where everyone got hurt and it got to a point where collided with each other just trying to take someone down a tackling a man they plant on their leg wrong Einstein broke his leg wrestling his leg broke because he planted on it wrong got picked up so there came a point where I decided you know what too
many guys are getting hurt on wrestling day so I cut wrestling out and you know if you want to Russell you go to the wrestling class in my class is just jiu-jitsu but we do allow reaping we do allow heel hooks and there's no one getting hurt from that more from the wrestling this is a famous match where you had with Mark Schultz know what was what happened in that because that's a very famous encounter and there's a movie coming out called Foxcatcher that's based on do you know the story behind this movie what was the guy's name that was responsible Fox catcher it was based on there was the two brothers the other one Mark Schultz David Schultz named Schultz got killed and it's um it's based on this guy John DuPont who is this crazy rich guy who was taking these wrestlers and he was some weird gay [ __ ] there was something weird about he'd pay for private he would well not just that he set up a training center and pay them a lot of money and just get real weird with him wrestle with these guys but it was like this old dude you know wasn't like he was like you know a guy was really fitting really into training and learning techniques it was real weird and he wound up shooting they creep through every now and then well he was a billionaire he was super super rich guy so this this movie is actually about to come out now but his brother Mark Schultz was fought in the UFC Olympic gold medalist fantastic wrestler like all-time great wrestler and you and he had an encounter yeah well I was in in Utah visiting my my structor Pedro Pedro Sauer yes and then we are invited to watch the BYU where he was coaching the the rest wrestling team there and as I get there you know looking to for training stuff and eventually he said ok let's train a little bit and then immediately we engage immediately he went to my guard and almost immediately he's stepping out and then he was not happy at all they put him in a triangle or a normal triangle first from the guard yes and then he becomes a little more smart and he can become it so was a long second round and eventually I went to his back and submit him again and after a few few sessions I make him tap some and and he was very impressed like well nobody did this with me I mean what's going on I mean he was stronger than me I mean of
course a warrior and he was not happy I mean somebody said once you show me a good loser and I show you a loser so he was not happy at all and of course and I understood that and but eventually he he's cero and he understood was a technique involved and he starts to become training with Pedro and become passionate about jiu-jitsu he training a lot and he become like a supporter of the jiu-jitsu cause in Utah and and you know was a great experience because I can felt like the whole level of training and I mean body control he has but it's still like at that point the wrestlers has no clue what is you know submission so what's kind of you know a surprising thing for them which doesn't happen those days do you remember specifically what moves holes brought from wrestling and and from [ __ ] to a good weight distribution a good ways to like if the guy grabbed you you able to chew to make the movement you go to his back like a good turnovers a good excellent sense of nogi based control good grapes to charm dragon stuff yeah things like a very you know he was training a lot with Bob Bobby Bob Anderson yes yeah so he was a good friend of Bob Anders so in Woburn went to Brazil so it was like he was the one who brought the wrestling ideas and concepts because he pushes wants to compete in Olympic wrestling so was hauls was always for me a reference you know as I growing up he was the champion and he was just unbelievable guy with a good heart and passion for jiu-jitsu loved represent and he was my idol you know as I growing up and I try to follow his footsteps and as I growing up we all train hard amount each other we fathers so my goal was bit helps you know my goal was be better than him and let's suppose our last 30 training maybe he he beat me like in the first two or three and then we spent maybe 20 trainings or maybe twenty five trainings step even up like back and forth I start to get more and more into his game and what this is strategy to to catch me and I start to become a more comfortable in the surviving and then in one point I start to getting the advantage in the training because no luck either you better or not so inconsistently I start to become more comfortable and then eventually I start to getting the advantage in some positions and then in one day and then
in the range of my father is like and we can we all get together has a huge match so I was training with him and I submit him first time you know what you get him one oh man was like HM you know here noogie we so you're not even remember I think was some kind of joke or something but what I remember it was the feeling I felt by achieving my goal I was making him feel like he was losing his position and I felt the same way I felt happy I felt sad because was not his anymore is myself my responsibility now and we know that and nobody in the news I mean nobody knew I mean of course people saw the training but at that point I felt like I was there to support him but I was better than him and we still competing in the events coming and we always closed the bracket because he goes in his way division I go in mind and we go together in the open division so we always closed the open you know and I never will fight it I mean up to that day he always been the first and I'm the second the meadow is his even though I knew I could maybe change this you know I never ever will if he's too alive he will be the number one and I'm number two based on respect based in yaki so once he passed away I have to take over you know and represent fully and but was I mean he is my inspiration and it's a great guy he miss him dearly he died in a tragic hang gliding accident how old were you at that time I was maybe 20 22 something like that so he was there when you fought Zulu yes he was he was my coach he was in my corner with my dad from for people out there that don't know what I'm talking about the Zulu match that you had was one of the that's like watching an old ally match can you put that up Jamie do you actually versus ulu yes yes I you know this conversation goes very well and I I mean I really appreciate you talking about the past but I like to make a little pause on this and and really bring up the the most because we have to live today we have to be motivated and very happy today to come here to explain and talk about this new venture I'm involved with which is the new JJ GF jiu-jitsu global Federation because talking about jiu-jitsu talking about rules talking about the future of jiu-jitsu I think we're having a huge
problem to be resolved you know and that's is crucial for the future I see like this new organization will bring to the table the elements to resolve our problem you know I think our biggest problem today in the jiu-jitsu community is losing effectiveness we've been losing effectiveness drastically from the last 15 years because the way in order for us to restore effectiveness I felt very appealing to me to engage in this venture which through this Federation we're gonna try to resolve three important I mean we have three pillars of of action to try to resolve that problem jiu-jitsu has an effectiveness in what an MMA effective and like a fight nono effectiveness I'm gonna explain to you because it's different efficiency and effectiveness today I see the top camp champions very efficient on getting medals but they losing effectiveness in real life and and if you see Jitsu as I grow up the core of jiu-jitsu was self-defense isn't preparing the student to handle situations today the evolutionary process of jiu-jitsu brought the sport of jiu-jitsu in those rules diminishing that effectiveness in the search for the medal so and like nothing can be boring for me more boring then watch some fights in jiu-jitsu tournaments those days I believe it I mean they can choose between stepping the break or stepping on the on the gas they can choose because the rules favor if you is strategically correct you may gonna go in the fight to fight off a situation where you can control the pace of the fight you can managing the whole tank and eventually by one or two moves you get advantage and win the medal so great you have the medal but sometimes that shows a lack of desire to compete a lack of desire to engage in a fair fight a lot of times I see a white belt or a blue belt or a purple belt fight which is much more appealing has much more open situations of changing positions then a black belt who sometimes sit on the floor and is stacked like an opposition who holds stalling the whole action so by doing that he's efficient on get the medal but he's losing effectiveness to handle real life that's why it's hard to see a jujitsu representative on the cage who
translates that I mean I see you should translate today something I feel like I never will fight like that the guys jiu-jitsu practitioner for life his great is talent he's tough he's sometimes a champion but he don't fight the way I believe supposed to be fighting there you know he has no idea of clinching he has no idea of sidekick he has no idea of a volley to the guard they have a sportive guard all the time trying to do a more Plata's in you know instead and the guy on top just hamming them down so it's kind of weird because without that kind of efficiency I mean I'm sorry effectiveness huge it was losing you know he's losing the integrity the whole culture the whole concepts I trust and I believe all my life so if I can clarify your issue is with points and with advantage points yes for example the this new situation will be this Federation is not there to compete with other organizations I'm not there – I'm doing the job who has not done yet you know based on this platform this state of the arm platform we try to have three different elements to work with the information I think the vision is to perform something a good service my intention with this is to serve the community in the sport community the worldwide jiu-jitsu community in this part of jiu jitsu thinking that I have three different elements the first one is the communication aspect information through the site you're gonna have a listing of all the academies on the planet we have a listing of all at athletes profiles downloads of fights so they will have the all the option to request sponsors show themselves it's like a Google / Facebook for the community and also we're gonna have a Masters Council which brings all the guys who have traditionally spent their lives in in in the Jewish community to have a voice active voice for the community so in the forum's sometimes somebody makes a question about the opposition so the Masters will be involving answers if they want and they will be Ray highlighted because that's his opine and that's my opinion so people the community gonna start to evaluate what's beneficial and what's negative what the master has to say so creates a network which is much needed to unify the community I see the
community – they completely split you know they did some federations have their own circuit some others so it's 30 30 events one side another 30 on the other side and then has you know Naga seven grep requests have dream have IBJJF so all this is completely disorganized and completely split so my intention is bring to the community a sense of of unification based on this information who is goal for every like another important point is have contributors from all over to bringing their reports of what's happening in this event who is the champion who is that a new use and everything so because some magazines today they completely partial they just will talk and explain about their athletes or in their society does not cover the whole community so to this information this solid efficient general information the general the whole community will be informed will be connected will be asking and being listened so I think that's a very important for the community another big pillar of our our Federation is the competition aspect which by changing rules we restore effectiveness how we do that cutting the advantages because that venters for me is like a a bow in the ring it's just touch the ring doesn't make a point how you gonna make a half point or is its they're very hard to interpretate what is really real and what is not was almost I mean doesn't matter how many goals you try and hit the post this score is what matters you know so a half point just creates a controversy and interpretation for the referee fault so becomes a very confused way so back to the reality you just go for clear points and also another important thing is give – points for stalling positions what is a stalling position is a position where you hold with the intention to preserve the position to preserve the control of the dynamic of the fight you stalling because you want to be in control by you what I call untied shoe Jitsu move which prevents you from at keep action because the idea is both engage and see who is the best who is submit who is passing who is mounting who is getting and sometimes people to minimize that risk they kind of keeping the the situation under control the position they can
control the sleeves pulling the leg and tangled it so he's comfortable to to proceed until the point he needs to make a little advance so this diminish the effectiveness because this kind of strategy doesn't work in real life so that will punished for that the piensa me grabbing yes so they grab in the referee come and say hey man watch a grip after 20 seconds he already got a minus point after then they want to get – again and then eventually gonna be DQ is it subject to interpretation whether a guy is stalling or their guy is just if they're cancelling each other out I'm sorry if is it subject to interpretation whether it's stalling or whether or not they're cancelling each other out like one guy's trying to advance the other guy's stopping them at for advance they're just both looking for the opening yeah but you can see easily who is wants to progress and who is once you just control the position for this guy who don't want to progress he will be I mean you can order I mean in theory maybes but if you see it you can see who is just trying to minimize the action and try to wait for their opportunity and though the one who's tried to make it happen you know what about submission only tournament stilettos the Federation also have this kind of rule we have two sets of rules the point rules system for tournaments and we have the challenge rules for can be even tournament but for match for matchmaking like the metamoris kind or or any promoter who will try to do something like the baddest the baddest purple belt so is no way division is no time limit he can approach that the time as he wish like okay that will be 20 minutes match will be 15 minutes match will be half-hour match when you think about Gracie worlds and Gracie Nationals they it's all submission only yeah after 15 minutes if there's no sub submission they're both disqualified yeah I I just agree with that that me that disqualification I spoke with hoes and she maybe I mean we wanna get into the batter for the jujitsu but for me it's the same rules in case of a bracket so I don't feel like both who kind of didn't submit suppose should be disqualified because sometimes in the same bracket two tough guys they fight each other and they could not submit to each other and then some too I mean halfway Buster's
yes they want submit the other so this guy advances and those two are disqualified so I don't think this is fair somebody has to come in from this so the way I did is the first round goes full force and if the 20 minutes the end or 30 minutes the end depends off the arrangement after the 10 minutes you ask the guy you want to fight the guys say yes and then you ask the guy you want to fight yes so is another round so in the second round we still don't have positive points but every time the guy put himself in a position and he started defending himself without attempting to escape or giving the combat just protecting or resting or whatever the refere you gonna say hey man keep going acting or you going to be penalized so we have negative points for diminishing of combativity so at the end of the second round if we see like somebody with minus points this one will be the loser you know because he display last desire or less gas or less techniques to be on top of the the competition so his mind was because he's defending all the time he was tired or whatever so he gets – points and then the other guy advances for the the bracket so that's the only change for the submission are you familiar with my have a submission only tournament as well I don't know if you're aware of that and it's very similar to Gracie world's crazy Nationals but the both at 15-minute matches but both competitors aren't disqualified we actually have an overtime around and in there and the overtime it's kind of like soccer I didn't want over times to be determined by wrestling and a lot of tournaments it's like you go into overtime and and whoever's the best wrestler wins because you get the takedown and then they hold and they win so a lot of wrestlers can go into tournaments and go I'm just gonna stall for regulation taken in overtime and win with my wrestling so in order to eliminate that I wanted to know who the best submission artist is not who the best wrestler is so my overtime each person we went into overtime you get to start on my back with the leg hooks and an over-under and then we go if you submit me then I get to go on your back and if you escape you win but if I submit you then we go another round it's just it's like extra innings and
then the next round you take my back I escape I take your back and I submit you I win that's in a dreamland of course but we that way we get to find out who the best is that submitting we couldn't finish in regulation now we go into overtime and we start on each other's backs like free kicks yeah but I think I think this is a valid but you take the element of calm conquer the position I think the fight has should be even standing up if the wrestlers start to avoiding or if they any avoiding of combativity supposed to be penalized but I love you could fake that though like a wrestler could take it I take shot yeah one thing is for sure in this new Federation in the same way we have the master council we're gonna have the Development Council and you're gonna be invited right now to be part because I see people like you guys are not just know the deal know that this sport but also has opinion to make and my idea is not ride my rules and stone my idea is to follow the best bedroom to create more effectiveness and more dynamic aspect for the sport so the Federation has this open heart and open eye and open years to kind of make the best conclusions for the sport so all the rules can be changed everything can be adapted to a better more define this play of effectiveness that's a beautiful thing when will this go into effect and when will your first Ouija no no I'm not playing only in events my idea is to serve a service so I gonna service through the information I'm gonna service to giving reference and giving guidance for the events but even though they don't do my rules I will legitimize everybody and I will start to relate the records of every event who won here who won there and I start to putting everybody to become part of the same profile the same mindset and I will hammer the idea of why we don't do the best rules for jiu-jitsu because I bet the champions today many of them they're gonna say I don't like I prefer to this or that but I'm not here to educate those champions I'm here to educate 85% of the competitive community today who is still white and blue belt those guys they being misled to understand the strategy of the game to get the medals but they're losing effectiveness in real life so the change of rules aside of the education aspect of the Federation is
very important how I see the service of the Federation in the educational level because a lot of times guys coming from the comparative background and they from white to purple to maroon and black so they become tough competitors sometimes champions they become famous then they open the school and as they open the school they teach what they know their techniques who make them few champions so great but this is just like a percentage of what he's supposed to know to teach because nay not everybody wants to dare go there to compete not everybody has the skills and the toughness to engage in that kind of level of training I feel like jiu-jitsu is there to favor the community as a whole I feel like this structure he has to be knowledgeable about self-defense about self-defense for women about programs for kids kids class in law enforcement so as this structure becomes certified I mean I'm not a gonna validate all the to audit the instructors all the black belts today I'm not gonna say you don't deserve it but I will suggest to them to get certified through the Federation because they will get elements for their schools become more efficient retain more students have a better teaching programs which are the core of effectiveness the other day I heard some black belts being asked for a student about self defense hey teacher you teacher said no no if you want a self-defense you go to grab my gun you know and I felt that this is just something which goes straight on my heart because for me the core of jujitsu is self-defense if you don't know self-defense basically you don't know jiu-jitsu you have to be ready to choose to defend yourself from a slapping from a hug from a headlock from whatever and if you don't have those concepts line up you become sometimes very tough with tough years with very good grip and Durin's forever but you're still counting on your own physicality you still continue you cannot teach that for a children or for a women so by having the Federation presenting those courses and expressing this all over the world the teacher will have much more elements to have more students to feed the the more knowledge to feed you know the his students in different levels and and
make a different job with Fugit so you know so this is beautiful so your motivation is just to improve jiu-jitsu yes you see a bad direction that it's going shoots is losing effectiveness and we have to restore that buy-in for me very well by understand the competition as a progressive thing to make you better fighter not to make a better competitor you know if your competitor sometimes a Taekwondo guy he's a great competitor but has nothing to do it for your life I mean you want to be a fighter jiu-jitsu is something you learn to protect your honor to protect your dignity to represent to fight to make money in the cage whatever your goals are jiu-jitsu is there to support you in a very profound and deep cause which is affect effectiveness the transition between jiu-jitsu and jiu-jitsu competition and mixed martial arts is a very tricky transition for a lot of jiu-jitsu fighters yes especially when they don't have that kind of strong background you know I think if everybody fights like Krong we don't have to set up rules because he wants to accelerate he was he wants to be progressive you know he's not once won by points he wants to go to the queue so a guys like him or Boucher or some other great athletes they go and they choose to fight openly you know to see some other fights they choose the strategy is strategic elements to just give them more chances just points just point just advantage sometimes 10 minutes fight then nothing happens just to advantage that's terrible I mean I don't expect to see this in a fight and nobody expects so by changing rules we increase the effectiveness we create a more dynamic fight is more interesting to see you know nobody wants to see something boring and we create under this concept the possibility to unify the whole community not only this particular Association or this Federation but everybody in the same pot and then without taking anything from nobody my vision is to create a worldwide circuit of jiu-jitsu which represents the same tank they are a SP for sir for the ATT for tennis which brings major players like big sponsors and and intellivision for the sport so first is unified try to unify the rules try to create effective and try to give a better condition for
the teacher for the school honor for the independent promoter because I cannot thinking about okay I gonna start to make my own circus and I don't validate nobody it's just me like other people do so that's a wrong way to unified and educate the community in our culture for the future Kron said publicly that he feels a part of the problem the Starling problem is the holding of the sleeves do you think is there pasta I that's what I think too I totally agree with him I think the fact that you have to have your sleeves you can't have your sleeve tight because then your opponent can't grab it I think that is so backwards I think that it should be illegal to grab the sleeve illegal I think it should be illegal I think I think is possible it should be legal what is in what is unacceptable is that grip promotes there's only a cool-off situation I can grab anywhere I want if my intention is to progress yeah if I start to say ok coming to me coming to Papa and I stay here waiting to waste your energy and then when you make a mistake I sweep you that's kind of weak weaken your mindset weaken your progressiveness weaken your effectiveness so what if he's stuck there like he has asleep and he stuck because he's trying to pass and if he lets go the sleeve then you're gonna pass and you're kind of just stuck there and you're like I can't let go of the sleeve because let it go man let it go and go for the risk don't you think that cause problems with the ref and the refs interpretation of what's darling whatever is holding if you're not moving is a stalling so you should have the MU hip movement and the angles and the booty fast on the knees whenever you do because if the guy don't make a complete pass he's still like I almost no advantage yeah so it's just keep going do you think it's less of an issue with nogi the song East all is less because you know gear you can stall in 50 50s and different things will be easier but you have much less elements to submit I feel like the noogie is just take maybe 70% of the submission options still some classic ones but not that many so I feel like it's just last options but it's still the same exactly the same fight when you did the Budo challenge we went to see that it was a great great event yes but what has changed since your your ideas when you
put that on – today my ideas are the same Buddha challenge is a great rule for I stream event for a prime television event it's not a sport competition event because aim is the submission and only pros competing and it's like a premium sensational thing which has no time for stalling it's all pushing forward so the whole pressure I think is almost that but in big tournaments has to be a little more sportive we have to have points you have to have a time limit which is a quarterly to the the belt and so but it's the idea of the concept a progressive concept of going to the submission helps you be embrace I mean has to be in the whole mindset for every fighter you know it's not doesn't change that the way you fight has to be focus on the submit the guy to be the best the best one out there when is your first big tournament are you planning on having a big world like I want to have like you know October the first event but I already have for example next week and the second and third the Volcan open they will apply the new rules and it's all testing we're gonna test the rules to see because the idea is a positive beneficial idea for the sport and if we need to adjust a little more and change like I said is nothing is on the stone yet and we're gonna allow the think chew of you know hearing people and seeing the conclusions because the mission is very positive and the means will be adaptable that's a beautiful thing yes yeah it is a beautiful thing I'm very happy you've seen jiu-jitsu progress from the time you were a boy to what it is today I mean it's gotta be an amazing thing an amazing thing also to have taken part in those first initial invasion moments when you guys came and you liked this so many of the Gracie in action videos where you know Horan is battling with the karate guys and you know you battling with you duel guys and people that had no idea what you Jitsu was yes I remember very clearly when I saw the first Ultimate Fighting Championship that I saw was number two they had a videotape that was out and I watched it and I watched hoist win and I remember thinking myself man I didn't even know that there was anything like this out there I had no idea I had been martial arts my whole life yeah I had no idea
that someone could do something like I was doing karate and man when I watched UFC two first because UFC 1 they didn't have any highlights to show cause well they didn't release it their idea was they were gonna release two first and then they were gonna release one for some reason nobody UFC one was they did have pay-per-view for UFC one yeah but it wasn't available in VHS yes and then so once I heard that UFC one was real my friend said hey that because I saw pre before and I thought oh that's fake that's like WWF that's not real so I ignored it and then my friend came home one day my roommate said hey ultimate challenge thing it's real some guy Guitar Center told me it was really said some some Iranian guy was just choking people out he would just grab him by the throat he said I ran more essence but he spit the tooth like in there my friend the guy who told me didn't see it he heard it second and so he said yes I'm Iranian apparently was grabbing people by the throat and choking everybody huh I said some Iranian I go dude dude he didn't fight I was doing karate for six months I go it wasn't a karate guy was it because yeah he beat karate beatboxes he'd be like oh by choking him out like this he goes yeah that's what they told me and I go so that second one came out my friend called up goes the ultimate challenge thing is coming out again I go tape it tape it so I got home and I watched it and man I hated hoist Gracie and cuz I won the karate guy to win when he fought my nokia char I'm like that was my hero I didn't even who he was but he did karate and I thought okay zero and then but on the other side was Pat Smith and I didn't like him and and I didn't like hoist either but then by the time the finals came I fell in love with hoist boys by the time the finals hit I was in love with him and I go I gotta find this because I wrestled in high school a couple years and I thought either this is primitive wrestling or it's super advanced wrestling I didn't know what it was so I went in found John Jacques Machado I went in there and I got choked out 37 times my purple belt by a Dave Meyer Dave never do and I remember thinking one day I'm gonna be able to do this with someone who just walked in i was so from that point on I was obsessed this is like a changing
life experience yes what was it like for you to be there too did not compete and knowing that you were better than your brother if there's all this talk about why you didn't compete I come here to support hardian and and the cause of being like spreading the art and one point I was hardened soldiers choo choo for whatever and and in another point I decided to to follow my own path and and of course keeping keeping the Alliance but going in my own direction and then harden called me and asked me to train hoist I didn't know why and he said and then he said oh I planning should do some event I said okay let's do it so I was his coach for the first and second event and then somebody asked me through Eric Paulson and assistant of daniel-san to Yuri Nakamura yes sure yes so he sent me invitation to participate of a church a short tomp competition so and then they sent me a tape to see what the rules are about and I didn't like the rules but I liked the locks so I start training the locks when I said no man this is my means no I don't like it so and then we start to immediately I say I don't want to do and then my ex-wife much more calm start to negotiate with the guys and start to say but if we change the rules so was the kind of talk and talk and eventually they decide to change the rules for a new open rules like and then I advise the way supposed to be the rules so we create the new night value to the 94 and then when I sign the mean when I about to sign the contract hard and call me I said Hickson why are you doing said yeah man I'd be invited to fight in Japan said no you should not go because this goes against the family UFC is our game we should be in support the family and stay here as hi scotch I said man that's not exactly what I vision for myself because I mean I'm here being coach I get one penny you you put a lot of dollars in your pocket you give me nothing I mean you give me some money for me to sit on the bench we are in business but if you give me enough and the guys offered me a lot of money to go you don't even have it you gave me what did they offer you just got me to give me some said now now you should do for the love of difference I am and I love you guys but you love me and you give me enough and how I gonna love you I mean so I went to Japan and deal in my tank
and statue winning there and and then I get my my direction towards Japan which was very good for me you know the community there the education the culture there was was very I mean I feel like home and that's pretty much where I direct myself my career my end of my career to Japan and but now cronies back to see what's gonna happen so were you worried at all with hoist doing the UFC did you did you think cuz he was the youngest one of the brothers riding he didn't compete as much in like were you worried at all that maybe it was yes but the idea of the primary idea of hoisin going in is because he was not the best one but he was something he's gonna be a good test for him is a good you know to break the ice and stuff but but not exactly if something happened is always a backup you were the backup yes so I was there to just jump in in case so someone beat hoist you would have jumped into the chemo incident yeah yeah after that that was already engaging Japan as a racially yes I you had a contract with them over there yeah not not for many fights I never did many fights contract I mean many fights in one contract but I felt like hard and create a very awkward situation you know and was a kind of little did division you know so I was not appealing to go there and show my support to hoist and be there just so I allowed him to have his own destiny and it was also the talk that hoist was a slender guy who was younger he wasn't as intimidating as you and that it it sort of accentuated the idea of jujitsu they did to his technique base where's your you're a scary guy you're scary guy now but you were really scary guy then you were the only yoked shred like 185 right something like that yeah yeah I start Zulu was like I have 74 kilos with 74 kilos of maybe 180 180 okay maybe maybe a little less and then my my last fight in Japan I did with Hunan Funaki yes I was 195 nice yes he was like 220 right yeah Aki for Nagas 230 should tell you something and then you know I was making a preparation to go heavier than this sometimes even 200 and then Korea cut down for the to get my best shape when we spoke it was 2000 and when we had dinner was it 2005 or something like that somewhere around there sure yes you were still thinking about fighting yes a
door oh yeah higher level guys yes yes but not I never materialised though never yes because I never have the after my my son departure on 2000 I was about to make the best contract of my life was I just finished with Funaki and I receive a proposal a Mira Nair proposed which you fight Sakuraba he was still on the top and then my son departure I have to have like a moment for the family and regroup as a whole by departure your son passed away yes so was a moment I could I could escape by doing a fight say okay I gonna focus on the fight but I felt like my family will be completely unprotected and unsupported so I said no done I don't care about the fight I will be so I spent about two years to to make the whole family feels good again and we all regain strength and happiness again so after that I started to to get another get a free agent for a couple of years we try to make something close to what I have but they did the whole business in itself in Japan the fact sakuraba loss for Wanderlei and things like that diminish that kind of huge purse and then I felt like no I just want to fight if is if it's that much so I started to be very resistance about my next fight some opportunites but I kind of push away and to the point on 2008 I was already moved back to Brazil for a while a guy from Texas invited me to compete in a new event and put me to fight feather and I was looking for that but I was I have a little injury on my hip and until I be able to feel good to training I could not sign and because it has a deadline in terms of promotion and such I could not sign without having a hundred percent confidence because if I sign I will fight I'm not gonna and I feel don't have the time I wanna get so I said you know what I don't want it and in my heart I went to the beach and said thank you God for everything I have I'm out so I stopped competing not exactly the way I want but I felt like I have to respect God's decision and I just don't wanna just jeopardizing my life for the money you know for okay the guy put me money I go there and so I feel like I have to go to representative [ __ ] so either I go 100 percent or you know I hope somebody else coming and then I'll let see what grown does all the great fighters that you saw during that time from the time well hoist entered the UFC
till the time that you retired the guys like Mark Coleman and bas Rutten phaidor and what were there any that you really wish that you could have had an opportunity to match up against I always visualizing myself against the number one you know I could not even think about so one point it was Coleman the other point was you know I mean you name it the champions and then Fedor get the risin that makes it like a big expression so I could not thinking about other guy to represent jiu-jitsu you know I have always true vision that but the set of rules are different you know at the time we could express technique with more because we had time you know I never somebody asked me oh yeah you have only few fights in MMA I said no I never fought MMA I always fought valley to do because MMA is a different animal you go there for three rounds five minutes it's better to have offensive techniques than defensive techniques the defense not gonna do good for you it's gonna do good if you have at least one round ten minutes and then another so if you have like my fights or ours endless rounds of 50 minutes these endless rounds of five minutes so and that way you can prepare yourself for a different strategy you know you have to follow the movements and you cannot just go all the way if stamped your gas and then fill up in empty again because you know if you emptier gas in the wrong time you're in trouble so all the technique and stretching your gas and be calm and finding comfortable positions those are strip right now now it becomes a very stream very physical you see athletes in the same way division but a guy who fights in the 155 walks around with 180 185 you know so the technology on the sport today is a huge thing the physicality that's why taking techniques is only a piece of it you know what chrome does today is not only training jiu-jitsu and become comfortable in the skills he training like a dog and all the elements he can do to become a cleric and explosive in physical I'm gonna lost weight like everybody else plus the technique which I feel and one point will be the edge he needs to to make the difference so do you think there's something missing in today's mixed martial arts that the
the original jujitsu sort of expressed this this idea of having an open round having a No Limit fight is is there a room for that today do you think do you think we're we're hampered by this idea of a three hour pay-per-view window or to our television window it's funny because you know the other day I get caught watching a four hour match in tennis you know what's a great match was alone and if you go in one more service oh man you see I have no idea that long go that long do you Povich in my dau and if I think French Open last year I was five hours five hours five hours non-stop man and the tiebreak and start again and the advantage was unbelievable you know so if you're passionate about tennis sometimes the game can be like 45 minutes sometimes can be a couple of hours because you dare in the action you know so for me when we talking about engagement we're talking about I mean the best one out there and when I see a fight after 15 minutes because somebody punch once or fall on top or just given a true both guys stand up they both decide and then the time is over who wants the fight in my opinion supposed to be a draw because how the guy can can win just because one more point the guys are warriors the guys are willing to go so it's always like halfway to what supposed to be you know because okay you have to decide by points after field okay so I mean it's hard because you know sometimes like I even have the best of it but that doesn't guarantee if the fight goes longer if you still that because toughness resilience and in heart and technique they all wanna pay in one point gonna pay a big a big situation you know so is for me not did you the rules today and you have seen such doesn't translate the best guy out there translates the most agile the most tough the one who get connect first you know because sometimes the fight can be either way the whoever connects first whoever makes the food can win so it's kind of hard to evaluate but if you put two guys in the cage and okay man whoever's get out first is the winner so and that's a different animal because you have to be technical you have to be patient you have Chubby's so you know I can see first is their expectations all in the how Crone gonna do
but if confirms where I believe can be done eventually I feel like chrome will be comfortable to challenge anyone for a no time limit fight because I mean I don't care if he's Velasquez I don't care if his John John's if Chrome do what he has to do with the time he has to do I believe on him like I believe myself if I have the help today and the physicality I so I like to have I mean I don't see a guy just because he's winning on the cage he can win me because I don't see the opportunites happen on the cage I'm not gonna give those opportunities so it's hard to say but you know the weight division doesn't make too much difference for me if I have the time to cook and slow burn but if the things kind of if even in my weight division 80 kilos for example if I wanna fight that guy we have 95 kilos and make a technology so I gonna fight a different monster in five minutes rounds is almost impossible Howie I mean so and then that's kind of unbalanced now based on the stream aspect of the sport the physicality of the sport and the technique who has to be applied so the difference between a fight and a match the difference between a fight and sport and in a fight they're just two guys going at each other and I agree that there's many many many fights where a guy will win a 10-9 round and another guy won the other 10 right now and then one guy win the final round maybe just for a little roll or some it's a draw it's not done it's like sex without an orgasm it's not complete yes and normally happens I mean sometimes beautiful knockouts but sometimes you know it's just you know a too much strength too much physicality and every time goes to the flooding I immediately stand up because if he knows if he's to stay on the ground he's losing time and he's not gonna be able to capitalize because the time is not as long as enough and to so that's kind of you know a great area is it's not it doesn't have the appeal for me to see a good a good match what about one who is fought Sakuraba and they had that crazy 90 minute match yes what about that was a an idea of like having these long long matches for hours in jiu-jitsu we need time because we don't have I mean we give the advantage of wait we give advantage of you know whatever so
let's at least have the time for us to be become strategical would you have preferred that kind of a fight to be no rounds though because that fight they broke up into a series of rounds yeah I mean at that point I felt like was a lack of action of I mean hoist supposed to fight better I was not on his side and I see a pattern on him to sometimes make little mistakes which when I was there I was focused on making him few sharp and if I'm not there I felt like a little fuzzy attitude mentally his focus was not so it's a lot of different elements for Chuchu Chuchu Chuchu justified you know because I believe Weiss has elements to beat Sakuraba you know and but he didn't so it's just you get the second time yeah every match yeah I found second time in LA right was yeah yeah were you there when he fought him the second time match did you know he beat him right yeah and this is the rematch you know what you were aware of that right no I'm not oh okay yeah they had a rematch and he beat him here in LA won right it was k1 it was it the Colosseum yeah that was the first time Brock Lesnar fought – yeah now there's a lot of problems jiu-jitsu guys have world-class mundial black belt champions have in MMA is they get in the cage and it happens I would say it's a big reason why they end up getting cut from the UFC is they not fighting wrestlers like everyone at the top ten is really hard to take down in the UFC yes so jiu-jitsu guy will come in and he's fighting a guy who wrestled his whole life there's zero chance that he's gonna be able to take down that wrestler so he's forced to kickbox right so the wrestlers forcing the kick box kickboxing fight because the jiu-jitsu guy can't take down the wrestler in in those situations um like I don't know if you remember Nogueira when he fought tim sylvia the big giant guy he could not take tim sylvia down so he eventually shot tim sylvia sprawled a little bit and the Nogueira pulled guard he was on his back he swept him he got on top and then he choked him out with a guillotine yes so in that situation the guard pool saved Nogueira like as what do you think about a hundred percent 100% confident in the guard because what I see today in the display of great
jiu-jitsu fighters in the cage is they have the guard but they have a sportive guard they don't have a valid to do guard yes they not dangerous from the bottom yes so they become technicals from the bottom against the dangerous ground in pound yeah so they get all that they're getting all that disadvantage so in my perspective for example Kron he's been training to deal with tough wrestlers tough boxers but he don't try to apply wrestling against wrestling because he's gonna need another life to become like a chutes or like Matt Hughes or like some other tough what is the strategy for Kron when he fights a wrestler that he can't take down he brings to the guard so he's a guard is something that he's talking about guard is no other option on the ground Jiu Jitsu has to be happy on top and happier on the bottom yes people frown upon I'm a big advocate of pulling garden and I made their fighters that have done it there's a guy named Paul sass from England he pulls guard all the time he's a master of pulling guard he knows exactly how to do it he shoots deep the guy sprawls and as he sprawling he pulls guard and he puts people in triangles base yeah yeah but yeah he but but the triangle is risky because once you know how to defend like lock you becoming available for grant ground-and-pound so if the guy is completely safe on the not getting caught in the triangle your attempts of techniques are kind of diminishing your capacity to survive and to defend yourself so you are attacking techniques from the bottom but you still on the ridge yes so the idea of a perfect value to the guard is save your distance – don't get pounded by those surprising key elbows like don't challenge over oh no no you cannot clinch you have to use the legs and you have to heat with the legs so it's always a striking from the bottom you know doesn't have some beautiful so you don't believe that you should be quenched and only if the guy if the guy promotes that if he wants this pace to hit you you need to be comfortable and hit him back so it's a fight where Imagi 12 year old kid laying down on the ground with fits to you if you start using the foot it's going to be hard for even you with a big man to reach yeah so it's no use of the legs
people has no clue how to striking how to use I know in UFC has some illegal heel from the bar yeah but you still can use different strikes you know you can even have the distance to serve I hope to be completely protected against elbows and and the issue though that if someone can disengage if you're on your back and you're trying to not clinch and not hold on to them your jiu-jitsu practitioner the guy can just disengage you have made they just stand up once it is engaged he's escaping from the fight I can stand up again and then and keep the same process of clinching so so now Crone's in a situation where he's fighting a wrestler and he can't take him down then he pulls guard yeah and then he opens up his legs to kick the guy stands up now he's got to stand up again yes so they could just keep doing that over and over again and if it's a wrestler like how does he want Chuck Liddell who's an expert striker as well as a wrestler very tough to take down but also an expert striker yeah when you get that guy to the ground don't you want to optimize that opportunity as much as possible and hang on to them while you're on the bottom that's depends depends where the weight division where what is the weight distribution is I have to obey this sense if he's on me I will sweep him I will be on his back in no time if he's away from me if he wants to looking for distance I have to understand that and respect that and protect myself to don't get pounded you know and in that process of okay I don't wanna engage he's moving back and then you stand up and all this process a lot of things happen what is important for a jiu-jitsu fighter is know everything about the anti game of the striker I don't make Kron I don't try to make Kron a good striker I want to make him comfortable to in and out I want to make very comfortable to fight inside with knees and elbows you know this be dangerous inside be comfortable on top and be very comfortable on the bottom in the action and because it's a lot of even though I know those five minutes fight is a lot of action I mean it's a lot of stalling is a lot of studying is a lot of disengage I mean they engage a little B and then they separate and okay now let's think let's see who's fight
it's hard to see a guy who's just goes like and I feel like the great element the greatest strategy of chrome is gonna keep a consistent pressure that means he's not gonna be studying or in a distance where the striker feels like waiting is gonna be there chew out or chew in and then once is in let's fight in fight let's fight like you know elbows wherever and then immediately the fight goes to the ground no matter if he's one on top or on the bottom and then the consistence of this I feel like opportunities will rise do you watch MMA a lot yes did you watch BJ Penn's last fight yes that fight was very sad to me very sad to watch you know I was very frustrated watching it as a BJ Penn fan as a Frankie Edgar fan I thought it was a great performance but what one of the things that frustrates me about BJ is that he very rarely attacks from his back when he's on the bottom he puts feet on the hips and he just kind of holds on yes maybe he was not as that Klee I don't know I mean he did the poor a poor a poor game from the bottom in my perspective he's supposed to have a little more elements to should not preserve his integrity but also to attack you know and I don't feel that and I feel like I mean he's just not doing what he's supposed to Eddie we talked about that yeah that sort of frustrated you a little bit too right yes I don't know if you're aware of this section but I'm I'm obsessed with I've been obsessed with developing the best guard for when they're striking I analyze it and to death and the guard that I comprised they put elements from you know my students help me Nina Schembri helped me so I put all these elements together but it all started off when I was on this quest to put together the ultimate guard for MMA cuz I was seeing too many guys just get beat up in the guard and I thought we got a like I felt like you have like the effectiveness is gone what is the problem why are people getting pounded in the guard we have to change this so the first thing I studied was you and Enzo this was back in the 90s I go okay well I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt to improve the guard in MMA so I looked at you and I looked at him Django what are they doing they're in full guard and
they're holding the over hook to prevent the punch like anybody try to punch in the guard with their right arm you would over hook it and when headbutts were legal your your left hand was like this you were like this protecting the headbutt but then when they man had a head butts legal you don't have to do this no more so you could hold the head now and now in this position with the overlook you have full guard you're holding the head there's a clinch there so to me as trying to be a jujitsu scientist trying I'm like if that that is the stance in MMA that's it you and him so that's what you guys are doing it you look at all the old fights full guard stop the punch hold the head and so to me that was the starting point yes I agree and but Jiu Jitsu is an animal who's never stopped to grow yes you know and one day I was comfortably in California watching a fight in Brazil and then I saw like I hate men tournament fabulou gel was fighting mark care and my care was the first time he'd show up in the and the first time I saw him fighting that was his first tournament means yeah so when he went to the finals with Fabio and I knew fab you like train with him he's a brother you know we and I saw why he did with Fabio like stay on thought ground-and-pound and smashing the elbe on his face absolutely fabulous tooth getting to his arm and it's like next day you saw inflamed arm and you go into the airplane like this he made almost lose the arm because then they give vent about ever but anyway after I saw that fight and they in the lack of options fabulous there next day in the morning I wake up I call my son Hawks on his ten to eleven years old about 110 pounds said Hawks will come here and then I went to the garage on my mats it's a lay down put him lay down and I try to represent the same position because they did they differ the size weight is almost the same from father goes out to marker than me for hawksin so I kind of immediately put him in the fabulous position and I put myself in in a marker position and then I start to analyze his pose instead Croxon do this do that move a little more this way so was not we're not a fighting but I try to find him a position for him it should be comfortable and I spend about 45 and 50 minutes searching studying with him
because I like that kind of unproportional sighs mm-hmm when I finish that that section I'm totally like III reinvent myself in terms of what I gonna do if I have to fight Marquette tomorrow because I was satisfied with the angles I could put hawksin in order to resist my leverage my angles what you exactly I saw in the day before so that means from one day to another I kind of focus myself and fix it a problem I saw with Fabio and at that point I felt like okay I'm fixed now I'm ready to fight funny without you model and what is this what is this stance what did you change a little I could not I could not have him oxen could not have mean control he has to create distance he has true how Shen across the belly no he has to use defeat more properly on the hips yes he has to use the knee on the chest sometimes he has to use the element of of as I approach to getting better position the bottom guy has to hit because if you don't strike you don't make the guy kind of go back so it's a combination between fighting in Brazil we have two different names when you bro and when you fight fight is more like a sportive and when you bro you like just do it whatever so technically speaking when somebody wants to attack me as a brawler I don't want to fight a broad back I want to be technical and survive and be comfortable and sunís that to say for I cannot have anything here let me be backing coach you see if I can advance and that's the time I will blow against him and make him get confused so I have to change strategies as he come if you come it should be a fighter I will be aggressive I will be mean if he come it should be a brawler I will be technical and I will be comfortable so that kind of sense of change gives a perspective for the bottom guy should be on on edge which would be on top of the offense now mark her in that fight that you're talking about Fabio show headbutts really go so that was a huge part of how he was getting busted up with head butts but since then head butts are becoming legal were the head butts a big reason you decided to change your guard stance also but the elbows in the reach and the way the guy positioned himself you know and the way Fabio was always with the leg cross he was falling exactly what he learned and what he saw and he he could
not have the time to improvise nobody expect mark Kerr being tough as he was and ceramic the monsters just happened in front of fabula and he has to deal with whatever he did you know he was crying and throwing up in the locker room before that fire yeah he was very emotional yes very nervous and I mean shows him a little documentary he did he always had violence but I mean in one point he's a potential he was the man to be beaten he was like he was enormous yes and you know as a fan as a fan of jujitsu and a fan of mixed martial arts and volley to them I just wish you had had those opportunities to face those guys I would have loved to have seen that nature now I'm what i en't like I said I just when I was trying to figure out the best MMA guard I was looking at you I was looking at Hicks and grabbing the over ugh and but the one thing I knew is if that's the defensive posture this is what I was thinking I didn't know you changed it up but at that point I thought that was it that's the defensive posture someone was in your guard you have to defend first so I thought well okay that has to be the stance so we have to create offense from that stance so the defense is first and do we have offense from the oberg and my instructor Jean Jacques Machado he is one of the only guys I know of out of all the top two Jitsu guys that his whole game is based on the over hook and not grabbing the sleeves because his left hand he was born without fingers so no matter what whether it was gay or noogie he needed that over hook because he couldn't control the sleeves so his over hook game was translated to his students me included so I was always looking for the over because Jean Jacques was my master and and then one when he got invited to Abu Dhabi before he went to Abu Dhabi there was a lot of legends there there were a lot of jiu-jitsu legends that were going to abu dhabi and without the key there was no offense there was a lot of boring matches but jean jacques shows up and he just rises above everybody if you watch what Jean Jacques did in Abu Dhabi he didn't change his left arm didn't change without it gears like no key I'm still gonna grab that over hook anyways everybody else was lost because they were used to their fighting stance their guard fighting stance was sleeve call
her call her sleeve so without the Gita had to change everything and they weren't to it they didn't have any offense from their so to me I took what what you and hen zou were doing with the Overlook and the controlling but that's how John John fights with the over hook so all his sweeps on John suitors look at all the sweeps in Abu Dhabi's throwing people around his first year he submitted everybody he was like the first marcelo garcia everybody was freaked out like how is this guy doing it they they they didn't even understand it but to me it was like it's because his game didn't change when he's training in the EE he's trained for Abu Dhabi the the people that were training in the key before they weren't trained for Abu Dhabi he was because it was all over look every was sweeping wrestlers all the qaul' know he was all over these guys so for me that overhook not is not for jean-jacques that overhook is important for grappling not even for volley to dos so if he did violet judo or someone with that style guard did violet Tudor the over hook game automatically takes away the punch and he has offense from that style too so for me that became the the the basis and the focus for the ultimate MMA guard was to master the over hook like like Jean Jacques and not only just defend but put those butterflies in and try to sweep or set up triangles like you you have an overlook you sweep he bases you grab that wrist boom triangle so I thought that was the based on what you and him so did and Jean Jacques style because because of it's like a blessing in disguise him boring born without fingers it is it was a blessing in disguise he's an Abu Dhabi legend everybody looks at Jean Jacques Yoda like how did you come in to Abu Dhabi and finish everybody to me it was just that overhook game he didn't really have to change much of his game so that's how marcelo garcia that's his philosophy – his philosophy is and he said this an interview said if you can't do it if you're training if there's Aggie technique that you can't do noogie throw it out only focus on the techniques that are gonna translate to noogie so that way when you're practicing the ghee you're actually practicing noogie as well so Jean John Orr Marcelo is very against
being reliant too much on the collar and too much on the sleeve he stays away from that because even takedowns he doesn't want to do judo takedowns because nogi they're not gonna work as much he wants to do take down that in the ghee that translate noogie so I'm now that's just this the conclusions that I came to that's how I trained my fighters that are fighting an MMA and it all started with watching you and hens oh yes I I completely you know feel like that's a good standard position too because you have to have a control and stuff but the evolutionary process brought order to kind of the guards you know and I can also find my my comfort about those days and and just and show and a more space regard the more like towards my father's guard was because he was very weak guy always handle big guys and he don't have like this kind of strength or or control over Europe over his opponents so he was more like hip movements and using the the ankles using the foot you know it's more like a very little from the bottom allowing the guy to get lost so it's a combination between the two I think his two days is the perfect option why do you think Ronda Rousey is the only fighter in MMA today that when she she's pulling off her arm bar looks amazing have you seen her it's why is as soon as she's in the garden she's not gonna wait she's gonna go and attack that arm and she goes right to it she doesn't wait and I've trained with her many times and her arm bar is legit it's it's not a joke it's yeah to me I think she has the best armbar in MMA today she's no one has pulled it off as much as she haven't yes she hasn't really gone against top-level jujitsu girls but based on me training with her I think that she can she can tap out it's gonna be harder of course but why do you think she's the only one and there's all these black belts and jiu-jitsu and MMA and they're not they don't look anything like Ronda Rousey why is that she's a special girl she's very competitive she's she's a very talented a side of this she have a heavy training in judo which defines her character you know defines her desire to train hard to compete so being a whole impact level judo player it's being a wrestler in that level let's bring you to a different level you
know it's not being just an athlete she's a super athlete she's very defined and very very much specialized and one thing that game her game is always like going towards the same pattern and and the opponent's she's facing he is not exactly prepared for that I feel like nobody has these skills on the ground to to fight her and nobody has the the heavy hands and the situation to beat her and standing up so everything is kind of even up but go and goes to the ground once the the opponent gets the first throw and falls like without CNN get lost and then she her movements are very very effective and and will capitalize on that but you know maybe five fights ten fights more beautiful wins but eventually she gonna have a person who has the same elements and then she gonna start to have competition you know because so far feels like even too easy you know it's like not even a competition she's like a Mike Tyson she's like when Mike Tyson was you see how do you eventually cyborg Rhonda's gonna happen Dana's gonna make sure that happens eventually how do you see that going oh that's a interesting because you know she will have the the preparation the mindset the heavy hands and also the discs you should become like a competitor for Honda I think you know is unpredictable like you know any fight you know if you gotta put your money down who would you there's no reason for me to put my mind another person then Honda I mean yeah I was in a good I mean I was getting better too she's thrown combinations with the judo throws and her throws are just out of control best judo in MMA yeah she's doing a man throwing people yeah and you sure when she fought mysha mysha is a legit wrestler misha can wrestle and she's making some big mistakes though she was very high up on her above her weight was above the hips I mean I think there was a lot of pressure involved in that fight she would run a mistake youth you would think that when you in MMA generally when someone starts doing something that's effective that wasn't a done before like the front snap kick that Travis Browne is doing now Cerrone is doing it all the time nobody was stalling that we need to see it first work in the UFC to go oh man the front snap kick or the rear
leg snap kick to the chest and that's working now so that's huge now five years ago you know one throw they thought it was a waste of time it doesn't work that only works in the movies but and there's all these kicks head kicks and and now that we've seen Ronda show the effectiveness of focusing and drilling that armbar over and over again she talks about you I do you think people aren't paying attention to it and aren't going look what works look what happens with the armbar when you do it a hundred thousand times let's do that let's do you think they're not doing it because she's a girl no one's paying attention really you think is easy I mean hair performance is it reflects reflects a life even her parents are involved in judo yeah so is a lifetime of achievements is that a subconscious reflex it's not something which you educate people is like you don't think you could learn it if you practice hard enough you have to be like at least a classification phase to go to the top top ten in judo is not just learn is dedicate yourself your sweat and tears and blood intensity to get there you know it's like being as you Jitsu champion is one thing doing what cron does today is another thing he is not only fighting hard but he goes and train hard and run hard and lift weights whatever he does he does with the compromise to excel and that's a mindset it's not exactly you teach is something I believe Honda is a special girl because she put herself in that kind of level of stress and she handle and she I mean the train is hard the focus is hard she's serious and the whole formula is there to support her her victories you not it's not a flake or it's not a Slugger it's not oh you you learn come here let me show you how to defend the unlock and now you go you ready to fight it's not like that you know it's so anyone in the in the mixed martial arts coming from a background because they see mixed martial arts AG as a good exposure as a good situation to make money to make so they come in with average background to try you know their best they sometimes having from the the hasni family and then learning some box some jujitsu some defense and go they coming from the judo and go they got me from the the jujitsu and go and learn a little bit here and there
but very few are like like Randy Couture which is already established champion like like Coleman you know guys who have defined their lives in one thing and then they breed to another but they have already the sense of you know they believe in themselves they can capitalize on the mistakes they forward forever so those things you know you don't bind on the only the work ethic or the supermarket you know those things is lifetime experience and is how chew yeah the intensity that Ronda Rousey brings to training just to life itself it's very difficult to replicate and that it has it resonates throughout everything she does yes she's crazy yeah now when in the best one with Kron went against Shin yay okey I'm assuming that you studied a lot of Shinya Aoki tapes what do you I personally think one of the best at jujitsu in MMA as far as he's gotten so many submissions you get you with leg locks he has a great rear naked choke his guards really good yeah um were you impress by watching tape of Virginia Shinya is not only I impressed by tapes the first boudoir challenge I did he win with honors you know he winded the Buddha challenge and submitting everybody you know he won your yeah the Buddha has different weight divisions in his way division he makes you fights and submit both and who were the guys do you remember what two guys well I didn't even really know who he was in 2005 to tell the truth then you already know yeah so anyway I felt how tired how tight how tied to how precision his submission he got a flying army lock in the first guy and the foot lock in the second guy so I felt like his very verse versatile you know he has a highlight reel in Judah where he would be flying arm bars in judo just yes one after another and that's what something I absorb in then I'd like we in our training we've grown I said and we kind of decide true because he was very comfortable when you engage on the grid so from your grip he can go for a flying triangle flying on lots and such so cron was pressing him without in engage using the food and trying to make him feel like he has to engage not chrome grabbing so that's kind of give the first the first way for him to feel like lost he was expecting chrome to attempt
but chrome was pressing without grabbing if you see the fight again you see so and at one point they engage chrome poach the guard and he was kind of trying to stay and chrome go to the head once he can escape and then chrome finish with the headlock as when they roll but the guy is very tough we are not worried about the Jiu Jitsu back in for like the attempts him to submit Chronos or hard to catch because chrome is very skilled to defend well is he good at defending like locks crown yes yes but still the opportunity was raised based on his his desire to act so we forced him to act he gave what we want and kronk catch precisely and sharpen and was over every every morning well every time I work out and go to the gym I warm up on the Stairmaster and I just go ADCC marcelo garcia or whoever and I just I just want to warm up and watch people do jiu-jitsu at a high level and that just gets my blood boiling I just want to go lift weights right so I'm watching Marcelo and Crone and Matt recently and I'm water last one yeah and I haven't watched it in a while but man I'm so used to Marcelo just going through everybody Marcelo just washes he is unbelievable what he does people go to his gym he's like hey you can come to my gym I'll roll with you but we're gonna videotape it and we're gonna put it on the Internet yeah deal and then I everyone that goes there's like Oh Matt here's like they're walking into the slaughterhouse right he puts on everyone's gonna see the role so that's and he just crushes everybody big dudes and then for him when when he went against groan he passed groans guard for a couple seconds but then after that initial he it was a double leg dragon he jumped and then bones ability to recover full guard is unlike anybody I've ever seen you rarely see full guard in Abu Dhabi people stay away from full guard but chrome will force unis force marcelo garcia and crone into full garden marcelo was having a hard time and then he broke he finally broke open his full guard then he tried to pass again and then he's back in full guard again and then um you know chrome put him in a guillotine and the word is and Marcel I think admits this yeah he went out like he went out to him he said what stuff
you know I almost pass out and then but chrome he because was going in the end of the mat did the first like the round he was trying to save himself for for the next round so he he put pressure and then he kind of said that I kind of just try to hold instead keep him putting all my power so and then I mean nothing happened and the guy kind of survived and he kind of won they want to take down so he could have cat he could have put him to sleep there if it's possible I mean you know but that's always the thing with the guillotine knowing whether or not to exert all your energy yes yes but Kron specialized in the guillotine I mean he coming in the next for the next for the last Abu Dhabi prepared to to face Marcelo again and he is Collini his progress is being very very you know progressive and and he was ready but firstly Marcel didn't didn't come and he made great fights and he displayed like especially the guillotine against Antonio what a view what's great in the final the guy just when he jumps and I feel like you guys about the chick I don't believe it I'm like someone explain it to people who didn't hear our other podcast well well Crown winner in 2013 Abu Dhabi Kron showed up and did with with what only I think maybe jean-jacques did it Marcelo did it and I think maybe haja Gracie did it I'm not sure that he went in and submitted all four of his opponents and in the he submitted Garry tonin in an amazing match would guess my best fights I saw incredible yeah it was incredible I was losing my mind watching that one and and he submitted JT Torres who's a beast jttours so good and he got him from the guard he got he just had the over hook and he just flipped his leg over his face and just held on to the over so it's kind of like one of those overlooked arm bars and and then he beat who did he beat first I don't know but the first one was like I'm not sure his name but he put a guy to sleep and then get this Gary guy in the first day yeah and then James's second day in GT and dermatology and then Auto be on the finals well the match we're talking about and me and Joe talked about this and they made a Stewart Cooper made a film on it but otávio Souza his strategy was to not be on his back stay on top and just kind of maybe get a takedown late you know cuz that's a you know that
rule format or that points format in abu-dhabi that back happens a lot people will just wrestle in Russell and Russell and he wasn't engaging and Crone is like like just like Hickson saying he's like Marcello he's like he goes after it he's gonna go 100% all he wants is the submission that's korone he's a special grappler special fighter all he wants is the submission and otávio wasn't really engaging and as a father no no no not as a fan as a coach I saw his coach as the fight progress the guys st. you what I've in Portuguese okay man that's it that's all you want okay keep going it's perfect perfect perfect and I see a guy just running from the fight and making strategy which kind of upset me completely I mean it's nothing perfect on that in my sense and but in this strategic aspect of his his doing so I have to counter in somehow and then I start to make try to suggest the referee he was escaping he was tried to avoid the fight because he's not positive points in the first 10 minutes but his negative point so I was hoping for a negative point to which dot for this is stalling so and then I start to say hey free the guy start removing like you know he don't wanna engage he's just moving back like a chicken and as the things start to boiling I start to say hey man this guy like a chicken and the whole stage was this quiet watching the fight is just this noise kind of overwhelming everything throw a chicken inside that and for a jiu-jitsu competitor first of all I mean I know you're right here but I just have to be honest everybody says you're the greatest ever you're the greatest jiu-jitsu competitor of all time so you're here the greatest jiu-jitsu representative of all time your son is competing this guy has to respect you and admire you and you're going block the whole crowd is listen to this I mean that's a lot of pressure on that guy not having to his head because I was suggesting the referee he needs to be punished and eventually like with 90 minutes or so he get – points and that's what's exactly what generates him to say okay now I'm honey bee honey running behind so I have to make it happen and as we're talking afterwards we've grown come on said dad when I do start you talking like a chicken I felt like he
won't explode I'm I don't want to make a mistake wasting the opportunity but I know he will coming so I was just ready for it so we're kind of working together you know like the father and son work was perfect he's shot right in and then he's already waited football was over yeah ice cream that's one thing that's the one thing John Jacques would tell me because tranfer jean-jacques trained me for metamoris and we would talk about Krohn and and jean-jacques said I asked Sean John what is groans best technique he goes man that guillotine he wraps his arms around your head he's got an incredible squeeze yes that the guillotine used to be a strong man move like I used to think like even the arm and guillotine like that's a strong man I never got into guillotines but over the last 10-15 years they've gotten so oh man I said I tell you I'm always been trying to specialize myself and all the submissions and I have my guillotine which you know gives me some victories but you know and then one day one time I was talking with groan and it's not even one day on the mat was in the locker room and then I said yeah but get a team crown you have the guy can escape said no that doesn't scare but said now escape I said no he said no if I get it said oh come on and grab me man I tap you and then I have to rethink my whole strategy said yeah this guy have just you know you already have something to tell him it's levels of squeeze right no it's a level of grip it's a level of grab the way you hold is all technical and this the regular escape doesn't work anymore so of course we have escape for Crohn's I'm a guillotine but it's a different than I was visualizing so I have to relearn how to escape from average guillotines and close guillotine so it has to be special the defense those levels the technical levels are lost on a lot of people that are just watching it the differences little variation that is the essence of jiu-jitsu yes I believe the Beast the biggest aspect of jiu-jitsu is invisible my I pray I mean I my my my I preach the invisible jiu-jitsu because it is invisible because you see it but you don't see it you see the same God position you see the same mount but you have to feel it you know I I base my
jiu-jitsu and how you feel not what you see and that's is totally different when I go in and seminars and stuff the guy feel different they say wow man I've been doing this all my life and I never felt this way it's oh so good okay there's so much leverage so so based on the weight distribution based on the on the on the sense of leverage and all this can change the same position you've seen a picture cannot be worth it or can be very much effective depending how the grip the angle the elbows the weight so is amazing how the invisible jiu-jitsu is what really supports the you know it's not what you learn superficially what do you think about Marcelo Garcia's variation of the guillotine you know and some people called a high elbow guillotine and a lot of people call to Marcel a team where it's it's he doesn't believe like this yeah what have you is that part of something that you've taught her is that new to you know is not new is an option which developed by him like his he's the master on there is not so you see different submissions from the brag yeah mission so it's adaptations you know if you focus and you know what's coming and you have defenses I don't believe a guillotine is effective regardless no yeah all the guillotines you can defend but you have to be precise if you make one mistake if you're thinking about defense one and the guy come in with a little twist the defense one is not going to work and if you think about change for the second you already tapping or you already sleeping yes so you have to be precise on on the adaptation of each so now if chrome gets me I know exactly what I have to go if I delayed five two seconds then comes over yeah is over so and that's his go for any any technique there's so many different ways to squeeze the neck I would off the top of my head you know including all the armand chokes like the Darce and the Japanese necktie the arm and guillotine the different grips all these different neck cranks there's gotta be just those the nose Iver swans like how you called the neck breaks from like the one the twister yes really a choke that's a straight neck guys yeah but there's so many ways just noogie there's so many ways to put someone to sleep I would say there's 15 to 20 different ways nogi to squeeze a neck
everyone's got their own different styles did you get into cuz one of the most popular chokes over the last 10-15 years and then the nogi grappling seen is the Darce are you familiar what is it bravo choke it's it's the Bravo choke it just squeeze but it's the arm the back no no from topside oh like yes like half I'm in half guard like in half guard and you come in it's like have an over hook and you come and use that one that's become just the one of the most basic standard chokes and it came sort of from a wrestling three-quarter nelson technique that was used to flip people over and then I think it was Dave Terrell showed it to Joe Darcy and then everyone mark layman started calling it Joe Darsh because he learned from Joe darts but he he actually I don't know John Danaher there's a whole story but the name stuck the Darce was that something that you guys were doing back in the 70s and 80s that's more of a newer truth and people are stating that the origins of the triangle like just the leg triangle there's so many different theories on where how that got injected into Helios style and I do you know the origins of a trial or is it just an old technique no I mean if you're going out the book techniques you're gonna see all the submissions you know like the application of triangles in my life it starts you coming by by understanding the cost left and seeing like longer guys looking like Makaha guys with long legs like Matthew Matthew Makaha is like okay old school I saw guys doing this and I start to apply you know I start to you my legs are not too long so I have to pick the perfect positions to do but I start to get you know familiar with and I mean it's just you know it's hard to say where I come from but it's I have I have my open mind like the the Eric Paulson situation if they knew I'll always have open mind to accept to to embrace things are functional you know and discard everything which I don't like it you know it's not about theory it's not about it's about effective and it's about the results is about few comforts about there so anything I see no matter if it's from Bruce Lee or from any race or a catch catch gun or if I see and I like and I gonna be going experiment immediately because I just add to my arsenal you know it's that's the concept
which leads you to development to to progression and to success it's one of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu is that it's constantly growing if always new techniques the idea that you know the Darce choke wasn't around when you were competing and now it's a staple a mainstay it's fascinating I have to bring this up because if I didn't bring this up everybody online would go crazy there's a videotape of when yogi and Joe showed up at your dojo yes and you you you know you saw it no no I've never seen no that's maybe next barbecue and my house that's what you want to let's plan it the way the world wants this yeah the world will you will you release it to the world probably eventually oh no you gotta release it that's one of the number one things that people are when I hit couple middle people on my site I may do that will do or free on this uh make that happen I will make that happen tell us that story how did that story come about oh just when I finished the valley to the 95 was a legit eight-man tournament and I won he started like the WWF in like as a UFO in Japan was very strong with progress pro wrestling like big magazines like a huge Japanese love pro wrestling so and then based on that kind exposure of this new event the champion of the wrestling association one of the champions of the UFO called Takeda I start to talk oh I like to fight here they ask him and they start to talking like all the pro wrestlers talk I gonna kick his ass this that started talking a lot of gossip and at this point I'm back to LA maybe after 2 or 3 months of this kind of talking around my name forever some guys some some wanted friends I have in Japan they come and said mister grace they talking a lot about you and you should have official answer for that you know you cannot just let because people start thinking you afraid people so you have to have official answer so I said okay so I make a letters stating I will never will fight on their ring because they not legit they fix fights so that's against my if they if you wanna come and fight in my event like they not mine but the event I fight them Japan open here we welcome to come and we want to face which other for sure if in other case we can fight even on the street but I'm not there to fight on his event because
that's will deployed eyes my real fight status a real fighter stairs so with this being said cup what might maybe few weeks later Takada went out of the the the gossip and then I'll just show up in a magazine static he started saying he will come into LA to beat me up he will do this because because he said are you gonna fight for free so I wanna dare to fight to kick so and then Kai coming hey mister I just say he's come and said this said man I cannot lost my sleep based on his own on just speculations you know he said when I come no he didn't said okay so I gonna keep my life and if we show up ok he show up so past may be a couple of weeks or so more'n one day I was in home in the morning my assistant at the school Coleman said Hickson some guys here some Japanese guys are here waiting for you want to talk to you and immediately I figured out support could be that situation so I put my camera in my hand hawks on once you come in with me he was about 11 years old I was going back driving my car taping my hands because I know we're gonna be a so I was putting tape in my hands as I driving in the freeway when I arrived I saw a van full up with photographers outside you know like the eye passing through my parking lot and I so I came foo of Japanese with cameras full of reporters inside so I come it went through when I get in the school I saw a huge like a tall Japanese guy very well-dressed and a lady and I immediately hey how are you Oh mr. Gracey I'm the president of the UFO Association I come here to officially invite you to participate of a fight in Japan and I said man you crazy I told you I don't want to fight in Japan and under your Association and then once I when I kind of deflect the direction he said yeah but you also said you fight for free for your owner and she said yes I am here to fight I expect fighting you but you come into negotiable fighters outside can you come he come he said yes he can come in so I tell my student to say hey you stand the door let the lady with the fighter come in but don't let the reporters come in block everybody outside I didn't know what's going to happen I don't want to press so as I drew come in we fought like an ugly face
and attitude and stuff I immediately asked my structure sadly mom grabbed the waiver and tell him to sign that's like if I get hurt whatever those waivers so he looked the waiver we fugly face and then he spoke with with his guy in Japanese and then the Japanese guy said Mr Gracie you mean if he don't sign you don't fight immediately I felt like if I say yeah he has to sign they may leave and they're gonna come in with all the excuse ah he chickened out I immediately said no forget the paper if you come in to fight let's fight forget the bureaucracy let's let's make something here more simple so and then he come into the match should a ring I you know and we start to fighting immediately I felt his intention to hit me immediately i clinch put him on the ground and start supine she turned back but different than a normal event where just put him to sleep or whatever in that particular case I have to display showcase his punishment so I was not happy just to put him to sleep so I start to hit him with the elbow respect him to turn eventually he turned and I punch him in the face and Q broke his nose and make it all bleed all cut a cut up and at that point when he felt like I felt like he was just smash enough he turned again backwards and I put him to sleep and then I let him sleeping on his own blood and then I said to the press said okay now let them in so when the press come in saw him passing out waking up with the guy trying to hide his face from the pictures and the guys OD is he waking up all blood you know a big big mess of blood in the floor and stuff and the crowd my students kind of lift me up I kind of might my t-shirt is all bloody and I kind of hang on the on the wall like a trophy and stuff and we all yelling so the guy stood up and and left and then like three or four days later Andrew come back to me and at my school I was teaching he caught me with a package and said oh I like to talk he was still like all bruised and stuff so they I like to apologize and I like to give you this as a gift and he gave me a samurai helmet and and then he left Japan and when he get there he say to the crowd he was jumped you know I was jumped the guys jumped me Herrera because the press didn't saw and
then I get my assistant my Japanese guy who was working with me and they valley to the 95 and I said listen you D you take this tape you go to Japan make a press conference display don't make one copy nothing make sure no no please so go there make shoulder depress and come back and bring this back okay so he went make the press conference and then my reputation when they saw was like a free fair fight and what happened my reputation went to this to the roof and you know it's just a big step for me and like in the publicity because I capitalized and all the wrestling publicity which is national in Japan so in then then my next fight eventually was with Takada he accept the fight and make official fight and then we create the pride I help in the formulation of the the rules a lot of folks don't know that you were a big part of the original pride yeah they asked me if I want to fight Takada and for that they want to create a new event I said yes I fight him and then we discussed numbers and and an order should make a good rule I helped in the rules because you know cannot be so I introduced the gloves and the MMA and they mix martial arts and the first but I said yeah we have to put gloves because without glue can be too bloody we have to cut head butts and stuff so I make like a draw of the the backbone of what could be and then from that they start the pride I fought the pride won the pride for and then the pride becomes like huge in Japan and then because they have a little involvement with the Yakuza the sponsors they have Fuji TV like pull it off and they carrying problems to the payroll which is here they have maybe 50 top fat athletes making a lot of money so they could not handle in the end you have see come and take over and get all the footage and the fighters and now bring for the next level they took a huge bath because UFC played 65 million dollars for Pride and all all the contracts were fake yeah they're all void there they're invalid rather none of them were legal so I didn't know that so USC had the worst of it they weighed the worst of it they tried to sue Japan or they tried to sue the organization why it's kind of funny this is how crafty they were while the UFC purchased pride the people that were running Pride were
starting another organization while they were working for the UFC so they were working for the USC running the pride offices for the UFC in Japan but then they were running their own interest is we don't know disregard of everything now there's a japanese-style there's a classic there's a classic match or not a match fight that got it's on video it might be on YouTube with you and Hugo Dority on the beach where you guys are fighting what is that on you – oh yeah yeah parts of it it's hard to see the whole thing I know they fight on the beach do you know who is holding that the camera at that day was high end with 12 years old in hawksin was 7 jean-jacques was there there's Jacques running so what was the reasoning behind that fight how did that go down ok let's make this the last day alright guys okay so if not – gonna talk forever here about things from the past okay I'd love to talk about present but anyway was a great time because at this point mahua was just finishing fight Fernando Fernando pin dukkha and I an event after my second fight of Zulu in Mireille this jiu-jitsu community has a little friction with the loot delivery community so they set up a fight between was Marcel bearing against Fabio Melina hey man against Oh Jeanette Adele and then pinned oka against maka hua and they draw and after that draw ma hua creates a good status of being a great fighter as it is it's a good you know tough guy and the gossip starts to become like and then people may ask him what about Higson so and then in the kind of small world is a position where mark who is as willing to fight me and I also of course we need to fight him but I don't want to wait or give him the reputation where I challenge him is not the case he was just first I was already famous established he was already a coming up like just make a good fight so to make things more simple my my father myself Marcelo and Sara my best friend we went to his school in a day and a night time he had maybe 50 guys training all without G they all tough they all have a lot of pumping iron so they all big guys you know so I went to his place said who as I like to talk to you so he coming to me I said hey man I heard you you spot you you to showing desire to fight me so
I like to fight you anytime you want regardless let's do it if you want to do now you can do tomorrow whatever and you look at me I said yeah but it's not like that if you challenge me I may accept but I have I need four months to train I said man you crazy you think like I use all the names but I it's like you think the Lakers will challenge a college basketball team from from from Cucamonga what are you talking about you can't hit your child I'm not I come here too because I heard you planing to fight and if you fight here you wanna fight or not so when this conversation start to become a little my dad coming as a mediator said hey guys I don't want to discuss let's make a list if somebody wants to fight hitch let's make a list and then eventually you guys can can fight and then we'll go from the back you can put my name on that list and I first time I saw you in my life and I look at him and said yeah man you tell me this is not a because has a game a gambling in Brazil like a popular game not official but an unofficial game called jogo do bicho means game of the animals you put a name I'm a number like 24 is the is the deer so a guy put a $1 and if he wins again maybe $50 something very popular every in every corner has this kind of underground game and I said to him this is not a game of animals man this is just a serious business you don't have to put your name in the list if you want to fight let's fight right now and the guy can I get me little confused so enough in happen and then we decide to leave so we left after that the whole gasp every corner I heard who go astray need to fight you would start to first talking about whoo whoo whoo whoo and I felt like this has to have an end you know another guy could not challenge officially because he's a nobody but it's a guy if I just disregard it's something who's gonna be against me true because I know he has the potential he's a fighter he just not had the name but he's a legitimate tough guy so based on that I could not just ignore and I could not challenge him officially so I have to do something in between which fight him on the street so we decide to find a final okay let's make a profile where he goes what [ __ ] he go where he walks about so we decide
he wasn't at this Beach with a very popular Beach and in real every Sun every Saturday Sunday he is there with the okay so next Sunday we're gonna be there Saturday so I was at this point separate from my my relationship I was living like a single in Rio and that's very hard to do because a lot of options so I was not concerned about the fight at all I was no sleep on the Monday Tuesday like just going party a lot wake up on Wednesday kind of afternoon walk on the street close to my neighborhood and then I saw a friend of mine who's always in the gossip said hey and as I leaving home I said I think I gonna postpone who goes fight for the following week I don't think it's gonna be a good idea because man I'm just too much body when I get on the street man first time I see first guy I saw it was this my friend bauru who's just coming said man you should see everybody's prepared everybody talking about the fight will be great they are all waiting they all will be there and I say oh my god no postponement anymore I have to go regardless so so as I approach the weekend I try to just recover sleep eat well but still like not enough anyway Saturday morning we all gathering in the in the Gracie Baja Academy which is close to the neighborhood and and we're getting like the students because we have to have a team to to be there you know what you hold and whatever so it's about 50 to 60 guys there and we all kind of strategizing okay you guys make this and that and and then my son was seven years old all pumping up and then and one point everybody quiet he's just jumping the mute and said yeah and if his son will be there I gonna kick his ass so he's already with the DNA of the viral so was funny and then eventually about 10 o'clock or so he arrived on the beach the guide the messenger come is they are there so so you went to the beach and as we approached the beach I have the camera nobody wants to hold the cam no no no not me so I give the camera to Haiyan which 12 years old at the time and he could not get through its just yelling everybody he could not get through to – but you film the fight the film was not even important so we engage was at the moment the first engage after a slap him we engage very quickly and and then we start to house on the sand
he fall on top of me I was kind of having a hard time from from the beginning and then I able to sweep mounted and he escaped from the mount one more time because the scent give me no base so I kind of messed my knee on the sand so he come up I have to sweep him again mounted again at that time much more concern of keeping the position so I grabbed his hand like like from the back and I started to punching him like Funaki yeah yeah exactly like like I started punching him punching elbow punch punch punch punch and then in one point I was dead dead tired I asked him you want to give up he said you have to kill me I said okay punching punching punch and then immediately afterwards he said okay stop stop stop so I immediately stopped we went to the water dive on the waters come back as we come back he said yeah I'm not happy I said okay let's do it again said no no not today and I said okay man that's okay and then hands we start to fighting my cell Mandy's at the beach they started getting it then the doesn't have the end it's just kind of mess it up a little bit him so confront with the guy but was not an end fight anyway I put stitches on my hand and back like I'll swallow my hands off swallows so I went back home training resting giving my life one week later you know I was in a part a friend of Mines apartment you know resting tired from some little fun I was laid down you know in my underwears my hair I have long hair at the time but all messy a guy my student of mine just stopping the bender on the on the street on the bike and said hex on Hickson they invited in this school is invading it's a big invasion I said I kind of wake up and run down and when he saw me running under where's you go like that I said hey man I jump in the back let's go so I went to the to my school in your in my underwear with the hell crazy and I and as I approached the school because they coming from a different neighborhood walking and and one of the guys like you're Jenna today was a black guy who lives in a ghetto as they approach they come he walk if maybe five like three or four miles you know something like that a different neighborhood they coming like from the
street so as they come in like it's not only fighters that's bad guys guys with like all the eyes I mean only the uncover eyes with with guns with knives with bottle break so it's a lot of Cove oceans a lot of image bad energy not coming from a real fight situation but it's more like a street dangerous so as I approach and I coming through the crowd which is already controlling maybe two-thirds off the street which passing cars just could not pass in cars anymore just like just the car passing are very fine lines a big crowd in front of the school so I went through with the bike when I coming up to the school he's already coming down with my father the news on which his struct or other guys they coming down and we we kind of crush each other in the in the middle of the stairs I said okay man let's go down let's talk so we can went down to the parking lot and like crowded maybe 20 guys from my school one guy has a weapon but the other guys maybe five or six ten guns and knives I mean it's a bad bad weather you know so before I start the fight I said oh I like to talk to you come over let's talk let's walk to the backyard here so my father myself the news on hollering and the genja today we kind of move away from the crowd which were like a backyard and I said man I I want to talk to you something very important listen I fought to you last week as a man and I come here I respect you as a fighter to challenge me to rematch so all this is cool regardless who win who lost but if somebody touched the fight before the fight is over because you bring here a lot of people without know martial arts code so if somebody touches the fight before it's over I guarantee you man you wake up on the ditch and said no now it's a man man-to-man despised honor thinks ok let's go back let's talk finish book so we went back to the crowd they make a arena in like people make a circle and was on the concrete and I felt when we start I felt like his mentor whatever she was supposed to say to him hey man the first fight last week you engaged too quickly you give the grappling hook you should punch him in the face so I felt a completely different animal because he was already trying to buy his approach his position he's the way he
moves I felt like he wants to punch me different then was before and I kind of make myself like available I kind of played on me you know like play kind of touch and he come and punch me right there I deflected very quick grab him in around the waist like hi make a little hip movement and put him or rosante and throw him on the concrete so he fell flat on the concrete I tried to mount hitch scape I move like to the other side and mount again and I'm that by mountain on him like with 15 maybe 20 seconds I just wanted on him I punch he covered up and I could not punch anymore so I get his everything and bang his head against the concrete a few times you know boom he kind of Bank the head on the floor and then he softer up a little bit I give him a couple of points he kind of quit immediately stop stop stop for me it was not exactly the well done job because it was just too quick and he quick he quit very quickly so I want to do the something else but the crowd was already trying to it's too much I said if I insist here after his arts ask for mercy can jeopardize the whole thing so even though I was not happy I stood up and he stood up in this area I mean I'm happy I'm satisfied now you would really the man shake hands say yeah man you have a very valuable guide shoe very strong keep training you can be good so we can i end up our it our our different yes so once we out of that high let's touch of high let's start to fight the urogenital deal in the same because they already having a little so they start to fighting at that point the police come in a guy with a gun machine just because nobody would listen the was nothing so he kind of make a shooting the the roof the bullets come up and bring some some Rica [ __ ] down and somebody got hit and then he come his very small guy before cigarettes and I what I see who is the tough guy now now so it's a very small guy who forgot machine so he go everybody like quiet so and then I talk with the new said hey man the fighters just start here with fighter has to go next week we're gonna set up something that's not and yet today I let so we we set up for a different day when then it's over formue and we kind of end up with a respectful honorable way and that's pretty much it that's a great story no more old stories that's it because all night we can hit
whatever here man that's wrong with that guys you know this is the biggest response ever on Twitter for a guest like I don't know about your Twitter but my Twitter people are going nuts that you're doing the podcast and they've been going nuts ever since the yo gngo tape there's screaming please release the tape please release the tape will you release it yeah let's do that okay yeah let's keep the the couple of million people in this site okay we'll do our best to get as many people on the site so what are you were you sending people what's the site what's the address jayjay GF dot-com jiu-jitsu global Federation calm so just the initial JJ gif calm it's all set up right now beautiful so I wanted to ask you something about what's going on today in in MMA there's like like Nick Diaz and there's been a bunch of guys that have been suspended and fine for having cannabis in their system and there's big controversy because in a lot of states now it's 23 states in the United States where it's legal now so how do you feel about a banning cannabis as a performance enhancer do you think I mean what do you think about man I think you know we are I mean since the the beginning of the times drugs are always involved with for us not dress drugs for body drugs or alright but I totally talking about painkillers we talking about coffee we're talking about we're talking about I mean teas and herbs and so we all wish to mate to use medicines and drugs to in haze to diminish to a calm to cook so this is is is there you know I think that kind of judgment goes from person to person from you know some people can have a little bit of some drug and get a reaction which can make him crazy or can make him addicted or can make him so that the chemical in the brain can respond differently yes for some people cannabis is a medicine as they play for others can be a stimulant or can be a below I mean low your self esteem becomes bipolar if you smoke you can be I mean I mean you don't know yeah it makes you more of what you are kind of right it's hard to say what is so at that point I feel like we have to obey the law you know and if if some kind of drugs are forbidden by law for
you to become a pro act athlete you have to obey that if you not that career what you do in your life you know it has to be respected has to be you know whatever but what's the rules for MMA I mean I try to input in the jiu-jitsu the anti-doping you know because you see guys in the same way division but one guy has ten times more endurance ten times more power ten times alright so other guys that you know has addictive like he has a extra I extra enhancement so we have to balance this in arm in order to make a fair sport how much the Kanab is affect the athlete I'm not sure you know and but I know orders like steroids or hormones those are proving so whatever is being proved against use the cannabis for fighting for sports activities if it's proved this kind of support of I mean the drug use can be in hazing son maybe we cut I don't know it's up to them the real problem answers it's it's there they're testing people for something stays in your body for a long time after its psychoactive so if you took cannabis like a week before your fight you're not gonna be high when you're fighting but it's still gonna be in your system so you're still gonna be penalized for something that's what's what's the reason what's the reason why they took it yeah because you can have caffeine in your blood you can have like another kind of why the cannabis has to be because I don't think his enhancement of performance I think is only control your emotional give you kind of some kind of feeling of happiness sometimes if give you like a little laziness you know I don't think that's will help you as an athlete I think if you get if you get high before event you're gonna lose your sharpeners you want it so I don't think that's we support so I don't see why they have to bother in legalizing or before beating I don't know maybe it's just because of the law just because it's illegal and the reason why it's illegal has nothing to do with whether or not it's safe or dangerous there's nothing it's all political with but they did lower it right you know it used to be good a few of you if you were in Colorado let's say where it's totally legal it's it's not illegal there anybody can smoke in Colorado you could
buy it you can buy it in vending machines you have to stop a month before your fight because it's it's still gonna show up in the test and you could lose the fight the fights are no contest you get fined so now they're kind of changing and adapting now I guess according to the numbers I think you can go you have to stop two weeks before a fight or something like that so it may be eventually depending of the car they have to change the fight for Colorado yeah or the training camp being in Colorado so everything there is legal but there there are there definitely how do you say relaxing the rules or you wouldn't say that what are they what's the word they made it from it used to be fifty nanograms per milliliter to 150 so it changed quite a bit 300% increase so you have 300 more marijuana in your system well there's that the step in the right direction I think now I'm as far as performing enhancing surfing is a serious sport that requires serious technique lots of hours and generally you you you hear that surfers will be under the influence of cannabis while they're surfing it wouldn't it if it if it makes your reflexes some people believe that it makes its a dulls your reflexes how can surfers be under the influence of cannabis and ride a 25-foot wave know the the the way the ocean is he's an animal you know is alive is in movement it can be dangerous has this kind of you have to have the perfect lecture lamian you have to have two paths mapping the way out the way in so it's a lot of strategy it's a lot of technique and it's also is a lot of harmonii between you as a surfer in the ocean so you have to find yourself comfortable you have to find yourself a spirit to the connect to the force and sometimes some of guys who my friends who kind of normally smoke some they feel peaceful and they get in the Armani's no it's not about stayin use physical only if you get caught in the bad situation against the bad report you have to swim like a dog you're a good surfer you started the whole of my life what's the biggest wave you've ever surf third bunk no no about 12 feet okay so all I do is dangerous long board short board short board okay I'm a short board a yes and Crone surface to grow surface
but he's just he is more passionate about jiu-jitsu than then certain – do you surf still oh depends as well I have to check surf line today oh really so you might surf every day yeah that much huh oh yeah what is it about surfing is about for me is about the water the ocean because I believe in energy I believe in and the ocean being the most the most the hugest electromagnetic pole on earth all the electricity coming from so as I go in the ocean if I'm stressed I get energy if I'm you know lazy I get energy if I'm too tense I got relaxed so is I equal Iser for me because I feel like the contact with the ocean keep me in balance keep me so for me it's not about the perfect wave it's about going to the ocean make my routine make my exercise breathing you know I'm a tropical rat I'm born and raised in Rio so I cannot stay away from the water this is just the you know somehow the energy flow and how spiritually that's kinda have empower me understand and that you would say that physically surfing does translate did you get to as far as the balance right cuz you need incredible balance not really I think it is of course you you stimulates your your your neuromuscular activity in surfing and skate and and and rigid but I think the most important thing in surfing is as you become under pressure you have which we strategize you have to be in control of your emotions you have to be focused in and everything do right and if things go wrong you have to be fine your comfortable zone inhale and that's the mindset is similar because the ocean is not your enemy but he's there to do his think and he's very powerful so you have to find her your Mentos your mindset you find comfortable in all this turmoil you know it's all you know it's if you get caught in a wrong position and if you get panic he's gone so you have to be calm same thing then fight you have to have like the focus the strategy and even when things with the problem rises you have to be in control what do you do with your time these days like what's a typical day for Hicks and Gracie right now I beg to teach in Chrome's place because I wanted to to have him more distress with the how the Academy goes so I pick two times a week to teach they're giving self-defense classes at
this point before that I was doing seminars once a month at the most once twice every couple of months to make my living and also because I feel like the best things in life money cannot buy and I feel like the quality of my my my meals the way I eat the way my relationship my sleep those are very very valuable assets you know plus the time I have to do things I love to do that's kind of when this is fuel like when I feel like I'm everything so I feel like I'm happy enough to be my best at service because I always try to be at service helping somebody with jiu-jitsu with knowledge with nutrition with breathing you know it's not about the prices about the service you know and then I put my head in the yeah I have a nice day I make a good speech with Joe Hogan I'd have a garage talk with Ed Bravo was great day so somehow in a purpose for the Federation so I always try to be positive but I have no schedule fixed like I have to wake up vote you know because at this point I create a lifestyle which make me feel good to engage in different elements like this Federation now and having classes on crowns and be here to be full of energy you know because sometimes you don't notice but based on your your your commitments your obligation you becoming more like a Robert and you you lose the perspective of what you need to be at your best and if you lose that perspective even though you still do in your routine sometimes you just – you're just 80 70 60 % of what you should be so you're not gonna be the best husband you're not gonna be the best father the best employer the best employee you just you know it's just so at this point I feel like I have to be at my best physically do my if I feel like I have to stretch I gonna stretch breathe joke have fun list and party whatever you know and then when I feel like man I'm so happy I could not eat so and then I can go and do my service you know and no because the window of life is smaller and now for me it becomes I don't have too much time so I don't waste time to do what people expect from me I try to do things are really relevant to my soul like this Federation now I when I dream I don't dream small I dream like I make like a very space for a hue day the biggest dream I can dream and I see that moment you know that level of need for
the community and the level of position I have to be the reference for that shift in the direction of our culture in our knowledge I feel like I could not be more motivated more happy to engage in this so and that's always life is about is just do your best and and and be excited to be motivated to chew to the next day there's such a refreshing attitude your your attitude your your philosophy on life because I think it's very easy and I've been I've trapped myself in it sometimes where you concentrate too much I'm making money and concentrate too much I'm being ambitious and you forget the quality of life yes your focus is almost entirely on your quality of life yes you know because like I said man how much cost your motivation how much cost your friends how much costs your health how much cost your intelligence those things is priceless I mean if you take those of your life you take a motivation of your life can be be okay it's can be the biggest so if you if you ask me if I want to have do gates life I don't know I don't know him so it's not a based on his bank account is based on how happy he is how horny he is how you know how how how motivated he is to wake up and do his thing you don't like to horny I don't so so that's that's a very essential thing which sometimes sleep through people's fingers and and the priorities in the daily you know in the payments and so I put you in a role where I feel like if you tell me in the past what's the courage what's the opposite of courage I want to say cowardness because either you tough enough to to challenge and to fight or chew or in the Newell coward and you chicken out so that's in the past was like the opposite of courage it's very hard to measure this in those days and I believe the opposite of courage today is conformity you know as people get conformed oh I I don't like my wife the way I used to like but I'm never gonna divorce because I'm afraid to lose my house or the situation is so established so I'm gonna keep so I don't like this job but I'm gonna keep here because better than his so in other hands if you if you get caught on that kind of compromise to to maintain because you you afraid to risk let's keep you like one step behind from you follow your heart follow the
ambition you 18 years old you don't think place like I say yeah let's go to Australia you think okay let's go poom but when you feel to say Australia what I gonna do there may be one so it's different you know [Laughter] yeah so that's kind of pretty much where keep you from be at your best because if you willing to sacrifice if you willing to to broke new new challenges if you willing to you in a stage of liveness and an excitement and unpredictability who make you feel like you in heaven you know every time I was engaging in a compromise or a fight was something I thank you like I have my routines prior fight one of them is at the day of my fight I wake up and I thank you God to be alive and I acknowledge how perfect will be that day if I die today I was a baby a perfect day if I died because I have you know I accomplished my think I'm in my mission I representing my family so I don't want that you tap I go there to die like I have to kill me it's no I'm I'm never gonna tap so but that's not a sport like orientation this is a philosophical Honor representation you know it's not something I teach my snow you should not tap no it's not like that it's about how I feel how I feed my kids how I follow my tradition so in engagement I'm not gonna be the one who gonna quit did I have to kill me my brother he can throw the towel but for me is unacceptable you know I do give up from my life so based on that kind of spirit or guidance my life is very intense my life is very I mean directed to accomplish give up is not an option you know I can do I can direct my my my focus I can give up from something to go somewhere else but I never will give up from something because I feel like I cannot reach there I may say ok that's not for me I go somewhere else but if I still focus I will take those Falls I will take those obstacles as a motivation to just set up a new strategy to try again you know I'm very competitive in a sense I like the perfection of things so this is like a situation where I put you in a situation where you have no either you go forward or you don't but don't stay in the middle don't try just waiting for people who are waiting for more those are kind of things gonna stack you back
in life and and just make you feel like passing through life as you enough you haven't you know you in relevant you know is very weak that's a beautiful way to end this thank you very much brother let's make this sometime again absolutely one more things we could do this forever I'm sure on anything we could do to help your association I'm 100% committed to making the state of jiu-jitsu better you know improving on what was going on that's what I'm also a JGF calm so we are true on that and definitely you want to be invited for the development council thank you very much so go there JJ GF dot-com enjoy it Hicks and Gracie thank you very much thank you John thank you to our sponsors thanks to Squarespace com go to court squarespace.com use the code word Joe and save 10% off your first purchase thanks also to honor calm go to onn I T use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements we will be back in a little while with Bert Kreischer much love my friends [Music]