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oh hello freaks yes we are back again did you miss us no you couldn't have missed us we've been doing this [ __ ] all week this is ridiculous this is the longest run of podcasts ever for me where there's four of them in the top 10 right now yeah four out of this that's crazy we have four podcasts that sounds like bragging that's a lot of pressure for me this EP no there's no pressure Dr Patrick worry not um this episode of the Joan experience is brought to you by stamps.com do you remember back in the days of black and white TVs and phones with wires the only way a business could avoid the post office was to leas a postage meter that's annoying but today technology has made it so that anyone can have that possibility at your home all you need is stamps.com that's coffee with stamps.com you can print official US postage from your home or office computer right from your desk just bang just measure it out print it out with a free digital scale that they provide and you print out official US postage mailman comes takes it you avoid all the lines of the post offage official US postage for any letter any package using your computer and printer no extra Hardware to buy or lease and unlike a meter there are no long-term commitments and you can save up to 80% versus a meter plus the stamp stop you can track packages track spending and more we use stamps.com Tom sigur and Christina pitsky use stamps.com Brian redband user stamps.com to send out the Des sad. TV t-shirts that he sells and with this no risk trial using the promo code JRE you will get a $110 bonus offer which includes a digital scale and up to $55 of free postage so do not wait go to stamps.com and before you do anything else click on the old school microphone in the upper right hand corner and type in JRE that stamps.com and enter JRE e save yourself some money and that's the only goddamn commercial we're doing today how about that cue the music young Jamie Dr Ronda Patrick is here we're going to find some [ __ ] out about health joean podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience try by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day hello Ronda hello Joe you're the only person that's ever come in sat down and said oh this is good I'm getting a cortisol
Rush he said you're getting a cortisol Rush from the the feeling of about to do a podcast yeah actually I could have gone a little more detail but I was like yeah you know so that feeling of anxiety you know that like you get before you get on stage I mean you're a comedian I'm sure you're really familiar with that you actually um are expressing a chemical called dorphin and uh this this an endogenous chemical in your brain and it binds to something called the Capa opioid receptor it's kind of like the counter of the Endorphin which binds to the MU opioid receptor so the endorphins are the Feelgood well it's Nemesis is the dorphin which is that anxiety like feeling so but here's the interesting part that anxiety like feeling that you feel before you're you know going to do something like you're you know really that you care about or that's kind of anxiety-provoking for me public speaking does it I I get it right before I'm going to do a you know give a talk or something um or do a podcast in front of you know 500,000 people um so that dorphin binding to the cap opioid receptor what it does is it upregulates the MU opioid receptor so that after you get that anxiety feeling you have a better endorphin rush because you upregulate the MU opioid receptors which bind into the endorphins the Feelgood ones and you actually become sensitized to them so there's a biological mechanism by which having that anxiety actually does you good so it's it's kind of like a stress at first but then later on you're you get you feel better and you're more relaxed that's amaz you know that's interesting because the one of the best feelings ever is after you compete like when you fight one one of the things that people get addicted to is um you get addicted to the rush for sure the adrenaline rush and you get addicted to the just the the challenge of competition being life magnified on such an incredible scale that everything else seems kind of pale in comparison but the big addiction I think is to the feeling that you get after you compete especially if you win there's just amazing feeling like life is incredible you just you you like the the ground feels better under your feet the colors and the trees look better everything looks better for a couple days yeah I know I totally know what you're talking
about and there's a biological mechanism for that and it's interesting because it's also the same mechanism that occurs when you are working out really hard I mean it's painful while you're doing it uh but you the more pain you experience the better the rush the better it's the endorphin high people talk about it's actually that that mechanism is anxiety inducing stress inducing is is an important factor in that because of this mechanism I talked about where you upregulate those receptors that bind to the endorphins and you become and you're sensitizing them so they become more sensitized to them so it's uh heat does the same thing heat uh stress so you know exercise capsacin so eating spicy food it's painful while you're eating it but what happens is there's you're upregulating those those mu opioid receptors and you're sensitizing them to the endorphins which is why you feel really good after eating spicy food oh that's what that is I never knew what that was that's interesting cuz I always thought it just tasted good like a kind of a weird cool good spicy taste oh I'm sure there's dope immune responses and all that stuff involved I mean there's you know complex mechanisms and things going on in your brain but when you're eating or when you pleasure when you enjoy a certain Taste of a food but this particular mechanism where you've got this dorphin and endorphin you know connection um it's really interesting and I think it's something I I discussed in a recent um article that I I wrote about danuna so I hope you know people find it interesting because I think it's interesting it's not people know about it is it's gotten some really good responses too I've uh I've read it and I've read a lot of the response so people found it pretty fascinating when you were talking about it on the podcast but it's kind of almost like the yin and yang of life is what you're talking about here it's like you need to have some negative in order to feel some extra positive right no the uh are you familiar with hormesis um I know I've heard the term but I couldn't describe it if somebody asked me to like so what it means you mean yes okay so hormesis what it really refers to is having a little bit of stress something that's a little toxic for you something that it's a little stressful on your body I mean
exercise for sure is that heat is a little stressful things um in some of the foods we eat like the egcg's and green tea or polyphenols and some of the fruits and also in red wine these things are actually a little bit toxic to our body and what happens is that this induces um stress response mechanisms in our body the activation of a whole host of genes like you know antioxidant genes glutathione peroxidase things like um you know heat chock factors which do a variety of different things so a little bit of stress activates this whole stress response U mechanism in our body and then what happens is now we can deal with stress better so it's it's kind of like interesting to think about adding a little bit of something that's toxic to you know get a better response that's fascinating you were talking about that last time we were here about mot toxins that in fact mot toxins in a small dose might induce that sort of a response yeah I mean I totally made I was wet hand waving I haven't read anything you know you to do hand waving I'm like well actually maybe um it makes sense that in a small dose I mean obviously you don't want something that's like very toxic and going to kill your brain cells or anything like that but uh things in small doses and I I was assuming that maybe microt toxins could possibly have a little slight hor horma effect um you know like I said that was just me theorizing uh you know so but isn't it fascinating though that that that is sort the way like especially when it comes to exercise that you need to experience this like intense hardship in order to get this wonderful feeling of accomplishment this endorphin rush and this I feel so good after I workout like I I make all my best decisions after I have a a really good workout it's just like my body has a perspect I have a better perspective if I haven't worked out in a couple of days and I'm stressed and and then I have to make a decision often times I don't trust my judgment oh yeah I'm the same way I'm absolutely uh addicted to the the the feeling and and and the physiological changes that occur with exercise and there are a lot of them that are occurring um you know in the brain and and elsewhere uh but it's the same you know it's it what's really kind of fascinating recently you know we you know about inducing neurogenesis
when you work out that's kind of well known where exercise induces the growth of new brain cells bdnf is one way igf1 these things can you know you grow new brain cells and so growing new brain cells has always been associated with um learning and memory it's like oh you grow new new brain cells and and they've shown that that neurogenesis in adults at least is associated with new learning and new memory but what they found recently and I found is really interesting um because it kind of changed the way I think of it uh is that when you grow those new brain cells like when you're exercising um heat stress does the same thing actually so getting in the sauna when you're exercising you're heat stressing your body I mean your core body temperature is elevated it's you know very similar um so what happens is you grow new brain cells and these new brain cells have to make new connection with other neurons and so what what ends up happening is that other connections that you made with so the connections you make between neurons the synapses that you form memories it's things that you can remember right I mean you make you form these synapses and that's like a piece of information you remembered or in some cases it's an experience that you had that you remember well you actually change those synapses and some of them go away so you kind of forget to make room for a new neuron to make a new so it it it really is interesting how also you have this Con connection it's it's a balance where you're forgetting things like you're you're totally disconnecting some connections between old neurons that you had previously made for whatever thing you had learned or and you're making room for this new neuron that just was born to make a new connection and make learn something new so uh you have that balance again it's just you know it's it's it seems like a very important biological mechanism this this yin and yang where it's like there's there's stress and then there's the the response to the stress which is good and you know there's things like you know forgetting things but so that you can learn new things I mean it's kind of important can you imagine if you remembered everything you've ever you'd go insane yeah I I have a real problem with that I have a real problem with uh having too much
information in my head and then forgetting things that other people remember and they'll they'll remember it like it was this big important thing and I'm like what did we really do that I don't remember that and it's just because I've had too many experiences like there's too much stuff or if you go back to talk to someone you went to high school with people that don't leave that are stuck in that town and they they can remember remember when we were 17 and we did that crazy thing like no I don't [ __ ] remember that like how do you remember that like you got to get out of this town man you got to make some new Connections in your brain son yeah no that that's uh you're referring to what's called episodic memory which is the the type of memory that's associated with experiences um and that's there's a lot of different things that can regulate that one one would be like a very strong emotional response like your amydala is activated so if something you'll probably remember things that are fear inducing or something that's really exciting like really really exciting to you you know that those sorts of things can solidify those types of uh connections so uh also serotonin plays a role in that by the way does it really yeah I I've been doing this other paper that I've been working on um I've been looking at the role of serotonin in brain function and dysfunction and also Behavior but uh it seems like serotonin plays a role in executive function and specifically an episodic memory so so um any episodic memory that has a a big rush of Serotonin would it be because what would what what would cause that specifically what would make a a serotonin Rush In A Memory yeah I think I mean there's a lot of different things Ser serotonin release is happens to a variety of different factors but one one could actually be uh very potent something that's very potent that you're experiencing do you know does that make sense where it's like it's not just your everyday stuff that you kind of block at like it's just routine but it's something just novel and would that be like the day you find out that Kennedy got shot or the day 9/11 happened or the day like extreme events what what what response would that be I think that would be the
amydala response yeah where your amydala gets activated um but I think for the serotonin it's it's it's more of uh they've done a lot of studies with where they've looked at kind of like depleting it and what happens what happens when you don't have when you can't make it you just your episodic memory is bad well that's the thing with people who do uh MDMA with people who party too much and do ecstasy is the the crush afterwards is their serotonin being depleted right that's a big part of it so what's the mechanism of action of MDA I or MDM I always forget we could pull it up um well MDMA supposedly has some function with uh rushing uh serotonin into your system and it gives you this gigantic let's see if it gives you a uh uh induce Euphoria sense of intimacy with others diminished anxiety mild psychedelia psychedelia is a weird word doesn't seem like it should be real but it is many studies particularly in the fields of psychology and cognitive therapy suggest they they use it a lot lately it's been used a lot for PTSD which is interesting because um I I I've only taken it once I took it once a long time ago I I never took it again I never had a desire to take it again although I had a very positive experience with it because the the downside the next day was just brutal like I I couldn't read I was I remember I was in a coffee shop and I was trying to read a magazine and I couldn't focus enough to read a paragraph you couldn't focus I just there was nothing going on I my brain was just like a my brain felt like a dry sponge like just so some some things that happen when you release a lot lot of Serotonin you know into your synapses is that your body because there's it's too much there's more than you know it's supposed to have you'll start to downregulate other receptors and there seems to there's like a negative feedback so what would happen then is the next day you're not going to be as responsive to that serotonin um and that's that's something that's a big problem with uh some SSRI drugs and things like that where you know you're you're basically preventing the serotonin from being metab REM metabolized taken back up and so it sits around in these synaps for a lot longer than it's supposed to and they've shown that the consequence to that is you
actually downregulate serotonin receptors which is what you know serotonin receptor responds to the serotonin that you're releasing so you you can't respond to it then you know what's the point so there's a lot of these feedback mechanisms that occur um you know and I don't even know all of them I just it's it's very complex yeah it's listed in Wiki under the long-term effects that it causes a downregulation of Serotonin reuptake Transporters in the brain the r which the brain recovers from serotonergic M seric serotonergic changes is unclear one study demonstrated a lasting serono changes tgic tgic in some animals exposed to MDMA other Studies have suggested that brain May recover from the damage but um a lot of people that do it they take uh 5htp to try to juice up their serotonin they take it while they're doing MDMA and then they take it afterwards yeah have to be really careful when you're combining m multiple uh drugs that are affecting like serotonin for example or that pathway because then you can end up getting something called I think they call it serotonin syndrome where it's like like people that are taking ssris have to be really careful and not take a bunch of tryptophan or you know because then you can induce like a toxicity that's that's pretty dangerous and I forget what all the you know you know what all the the actual effects of Serotonin synar but they're they're not good yeah not good at all that's an issue with people also that are taking HTP if they're if they're on a serotonin SSRI and they take uh 5 HTTP you can get this serotonin syndrome yeah you know the other thing about serotonin I mean we always think about it as being a brain you know neurochemical right a neurotransmitter in the brain but actually the majority of the serotonin in your body is is not in your brain it's made in your gut really yeah so I actually just published a paper it was published the last time I was on this podcast my paper I I didn't know it was it was came out in press um the day that I was on this podcast but so um there's two different genes that they that that convert tryptophan into 5 HTP okay that's the rate limiting step where you convert tryptophan into five hydroxy tryptophan and they're called that's called tryptophan hydroxylase okay and
there's one enzyme called tryptophan hydroxy one that's local it's local localized or located outside of the bloodb brain barrier and it's predominantly found in the gut but it's also found in the pineal gland which is actually separated by the bloodb brain barrier it's not it's close to the brain but it's actually separated and it's also found in some your tea cells and placenta tissue but um and then there's tryptophan hydroxy 2 which is the brain form and that's found in the dorsal RAF part the mid part of your brain and um there's there's also some expression so your gut has neurons in it as well enteric neurons that enzyme that's the neuron one there's some of that also in your gut but mostly it's the other enzyme so there's tryptophan Hydrox one tryptophan hydroxides too they both make serotonin so serotonin made in your gut um actually causes GI inflammation and they've shown this in in like Mouse models um because what happens is serotonin made in the gut activates te- cells and uh the te- cells have a receptor to it on their cell surface and when they respond to serotonin they proliferate and grow more and so if you're making if you have a bunch of serotonin in your gut you can get GI inflammation and you know this is I think this has also been document with people that take too much 5htp um as well as uh people with colitis and and such they've done Mouse models where they knock out that enzyme trypan Hydrox one that makes serotonin in the gut and it completely ameliorates that the inflam inflammatory like um you know symptoms in those in those Mouse models so um the other enzyme in your brain so this is where my paper comes in I'm sort of uh it's a theoretical paper but I found a mechanism so with theoretical paper means I didn't actually um do any experiments on mice I didn't actually do a clinical trial I just I found an underlying mechanism and I explained it all and found all this stuff that was buried in the literature and put it all together it's actually my first theoretical paper that I've ever written and published yeah thanks so what I found was that these two enzymes for trip to 10 hydroxy both have what's called a vitamin D response element in it which is a tell tell sequence that vitamin D uh when vitamin D binds to a
vitamin D receptor it recognizes that and it can turn on a gene or it turns off a gene and when it turns on Gene Gene does what it's supposed to do and turns it off it's almost like it's not there what I found with it is that so the sequence itself of this vitamin D element uh can determine whether or not it's going to turn it on or off and I found these two different enzymes of Tri Hydrox had uh different response elements one was an on Signal and one was an off signal the one in the brain was an on Signal and the one in the gut was an off signal suggesting that vitamin D was regulating the production of serotonin in opposite directions in different tissues so you needed it to make it in your brain but if you had enough vitamin D it would shut off the gut one not completely but turns it down so that you're not making as much serotonin and you don't have as much GI inflammation and then I related this to autism because I know I'm getting way out there but it's it's pretty cool so uh autism has been on the rise like right now the most recent CDC report that came out said that one in 68 children have autism I mean it's been it's risen like 600% since the 1970s like it's astronomical like how much it's risen so um they can't really they haven't identified a genetic cause like 70 over 70% of autism cases have not been linked to a genetic mutation which means to me something in the environment seems to be going on there's something something that is you know interacting with possible genetic mechanisms that's causing you know this autism rise and um you know vitamin D is one thing that's been people getting adequate vitamin D has been on the decrease the same time that autism Rises autism's been rising and um so I came up with this this theory that low vitamin D during pregnancy um and also during neonate when your young child can lead to serotonin deficiency in the brain and what happens is during the brain during fetal brain development serotonin is critical to um guide neurons to where they're supposed to go to make them proliferate uh you know it's an important uh differentiation factor to help them make the kind of neurons they're supposed to make it plays a very very important role in regulating brain structure and morphology what What
vitamin D in particular because vitamin D3 was the one that you were Haring on last time right vitamin D3 so vitamin D3 the way it works is you can make vitamin D in your skin D you can so you can convert it into D3 yeah so UVB radiation you need UVB uh light and it converts something in your skin called seven dehydr cholesterol into Vitamin D3 and then this gets released into the bloodstream goes to your liver where then it's converted to 25 hydroxy vitamin D which is what people uh it's a major uh C circulating form of vitamin D and that's what you get measured when you go you know get your vitamin D levels measured and then it goes into your kidneys and gets activated to an active steroid hormone and it's called 125 hydroxy vitamin D so vitamin D gets converted into an active steroid hormone and once it's converted into that active steroid hormone in your kidneys what then it does is it it binds to a vitamin D receptor in different tissues in your body including your brain and it does this thing where it turns on or turns off over a thousand different genes in your in your body so it's it's regulating a lot of you know different processes one of them this the serotonin so I basically came up with this this this theory that you know you know women were were not getting enough vitamin D and the the child's brain was then becoming serotonin deficiency it was changing the the structure the way the brain was developing and um they' they've seen now that autism actually seems to be occurring in utero and they're finding now they've been doing these studies where they're finding now there seems to be a a good strong environmental component and they haven't figured out what it is um so I'm hoping that people will start I'm not an Autism researcher and I'm not a neuroscientist I mean I know a little bit about it um but what I did was I kind of just took a step back and started putting all these things together and came up with this hypothesis and I also found things like estrogen can activate that same gene in tryptophan hydroxy so estrogen can protect you if you have low vitamin D you can still make that that serotonin from tryptophan because estrogen activates that same gene also so and then the whole gut inflammation thing autistics have this and I think that
they're you know they have high gut inflammation cuz they have too much they have too much serotonin going on in the gut a common thing with uh common with autistics wow that's interesting that's fascinating so it's it's pretty interesting um I totally forgot why I got on this I totally Tang we were talking about serotonin 5 HTP 5 HTP cells in the gut right so that that's another thing where it's like 5htp the first thing it does is it hits the gut and you've got that enzyme in there that can uh well in the gut so 5htp actually bypasses the trypan hydroxy part it it's now the next step which is to be um DEC carboxilate into serotonin so you can actually convert it if you take too much of it you'll convert it into serotonin in your gut before it gets to your brain so it's something to keep in 5H serotonin does not cross the blood brain barrier um 5htp does wow so if you're if you're converting the serotonin immediately in your gut then it's not going to get to your brain so there there's complex mechanisms does tryptophan cross the blood brain barrier tryptophan does um get transported into the brain yeah and we talked about this a little bit last time where it competes with Branch chain amino acids to get transported into the brain so um what happens is you know Lucine isol leucine these things actually win they both because they're the same they're going through the same transporter tryptophan is a very rare amino acid in in proteins it's much less abundant than Branch chain amino acids like Lucine and isoline is it a myth the tryptophan turkey thing that correlation between eating turkey and getting tired after you I don't think that getting tired after eating it is a myth I think it it's a myth that it's due to tryptophan because actually um me so the pineal gland so the penial gland converts serotonin into melatonin okay and the pineal gland is not it's not part of the it's separated by the bloodbrain barrier so that competition you know for the branch chain amino acids getting into the pineal gland is we're talking about something different so you know uh you probably are getting a little bit of trip toan being converted into melatonin or serotonin and then melatonin when you're eating
turkey but turkey turkey has a lot of branch and amino acids as well so it's most likely just a fat [ __ ] it's most likely yeah exactly you know but you said it not me stuffing and all the other stuff that goes along with it um another thing you the te- cells I want to get back to that real quick because you were talking about the elevated te- cell count now is that something that would help people that have HIV um would uh a lot like a high dose of 5htp help people who have HIV that have low t- cell counts does that make sense is it the interesting I've never thought about that um I mean that's an issue right with with AIDS patients yeah I mean well there's a lot of issues um but yeah they're they definitely do have low T cell I you know I don't know that's a really good question Joe actually I'm pretty impressed um that that's interesting it it's possible but it seems like 5htp you know being converted to serotonin does serotonin have an effect on t- cell counts only gut level serotonin um no it has an effect on peripheral blood t- cell counts yeah that's why it's actually a pretty fascinating question I I don't know the answer to but certainly something that I think I'll probably look into after this yeah that seems to we have some we have a supplement that we sell that is uh hold on I'll grab it it's in this box right here that's 5htp El trip toan and a couple other things it's called new mood it's a basically oh you got one right here yeah that's um that's A5 HTTP supplement that was originally created it was originally when we first came up with it uh allegedly my friend and partner allegedly likes to do Ecstasy allegedly and he came up with this uh they called it roll off and the idea would be when when you came off of you know when people do MDMA they call it rolling and when you're off the MDMA you know you're like well that was the nutritional boost that you needed to uh get your brain to produce more 5htp or to produce more serotonin rather actually what's really interesting as I look at this is that you have vitamin D3 in it yes which um really surprises me cuz whoever made this connection but by for putting the vitamin D in with the El tryptophan I'm pretty impressed because that until my paper was published in February no one
had known that vitamin D can reg I mean I'm sure I I don't know whoever made that connection that's an interesting that's interesting that you were able to figure out to put vitamin D with El tripan because I haven't seen any supplement on the market that's done that I mean I don't know if you whoever did this knew but um because because tryptophan you know you need Vitamin D to convert tryptophan into serotonin so that's actually pretty I'm interested well my partner Aubrey who's uh also my good friend is very uh he's very diligent when it comes to the research involved and any of these supplements and he's also been a freak about vitamins and nutrients like his his entire life his mother's a maniac when it comes to that stuff he learned a lot of it from her and then extensive research but yeah we I mean we made sure that when we were putting something like that out we wanted to make sure that we had all the bases covered yeah no that's kind of cool that the vitamin D's in there I I I wouldn't have expected that the the pineal gland is a fascinating gland that the the fact that that is what creates so many different elements that regulate mood and that also now if you I don't know if you're familiar with this the this um there's always been this thing about dimethyl tryptamine which is the psychedelic drug that's produced by the brain it's also produced by the liver and the lungs well they've they've found recently like within the last year evidence that it's produced by the pineal gland it's always been like this big um sort of uh there was there was anecdotal evidence but was never real hard evidence until they they actually showed that in live mice the uh pineal gland is producing uh dimethyl tryptamine and um that's the third eye I mean the pineal gland you know in reptiles so it's producing it when you sleep or well it's producing it during different uh periods of stress uh during REM sleep um but they you know it's hard to get a brain um hard to get a mouse to sleep while you got a [ __ ] big saw mark on its brain or an opening in it brain and you're testing its pineal gland you know so the amount of evidence they have about humans about when and where is uh is kind of limited but now they're making these correlating they're making a correlation
based on you know the mammal based on the the mice but they're trying to do um more studies on human beings more accurate studies yeah and trying to come up with more accurate ways of testing especially during different stages because the the hypothesis is is uh the theory is that when uh during heavy REM sleep and um during uh periods of extreme stress when your body believes that it's going to die like if you're under extreme physical trauma like people that have had extreme physical trauma you know and they have that go to the light moment the the idea is that that's a dimethyl tryptamine rush and that the reason why they have these intense afterlife experiences and they I came back and it was amazing I got to see my mother and I went to this place and God was there well you can get there if you take psychedelic drugs I mean you can get there right now a healthy person can have almost the exact same type of experience with uh psychedelic drugs and it's just a crazy psychedelic drug because your own brain makes it so the D dimethyl tryptamine um that you produce in the pineal gland crosses over the blood braid barrier and starts affecting things like in your brain does it is it binding to different receptors and stuff in your brain that would be a question for someone far smarter than me but the but the the drug uh aasa I'm sure you've heard of that yeah I mean I've heard of dimethyl tryptamine as well and I just I'm not a well versed in the whole uh field well it's just a crazy drug because it's the the most potent psychedelic drug known to man and it's the one produced by your own brain so it's it's really weird is it produced like is is it like a from melatonin or is it completely different completely different but it's very similar to melatonin in its chemical structure it's it's related like they're close it's weird I mean cuz melatonin you know regulates the Sleep awake cycle and the Circadian rhythm so you know I'm just I'm wondering if it's very similar in structure to melatonin would it have any role in that as well Caan Rhythm um it could I think they're all connected I mean they they tried to like okay this is um the when you look at um any of any of the studies that they've done on uh on the human mind and uh the studies that they've done
connecting various hormones and and uh things like uh well whether it's dimethyl tryptamine or melatonin or trypan I think it's probably pretty safe to say that it's kind I mean we know a lot about that stuff or they know a lot about that stuff but they're not entirely certain about all the different effects that these regulating hormones have on the brain is that is that safe to say oh yeah for sure it's very complex I think they're probably the most ignorant about dimeth to me because because it's you know a lot it's been thought of as a recreational drug for a long time so people aren't studying as much probably well the only guy that I know that's had grants to study it and has been allowed to study it by the is it the Food and Drug Administration or who regulates uh who I guess it would be the FDA that would regulate that they yeah now in terms of like the the recreational drugs I you know I don't know I think it's the FDA because dimethyl tritin is a really weird one because although it's illegal it's in so many different things it's impossible to get the sources illegal because dimethyl tryptamine is in like a thousand different plants it's in Grass wow I mean you could get grass you could literally get feris grass um you just go mow a lawn a feris grass lawn take the bag of that [ __ ] bring it to a lab somewhere and you got DMT and you have a schedule one drug it's just bananas you know my cat well she passed away recently she was she liked to go out side and chew chew her some grass like I mean it was like and she would she would get real crazy about it too it was like you know like you want to see something really crazy you want to see a Jaguar trip out pull that video of a Jaguar tripping out on DMT Jaguars in the Amazon find these DMT Rich plants and they chew them and eat them and have psychedelic experiences and they have a different apparently they have a different way of processing things in their stomachs than we do because they're primarily carnivores so they don't have the same gut enzymes and things like here's the here's the Jaguar I we'll play this for you then we'll discuss it but it's so crazy because this Jaguar like they do it actively it's like something they do on a regular basis
they've observed them many times they'll eat these grasses and these uh plants rather and then they just trip their balls cats eat grass large cats like Jaguars eat leaves when regurgitated they cleanse their digestive [Music] [Laughter] system but like catnip some plants induce other [Music] [Laughter] effects this Jaguar is first of all one of the commonest rainforest Vines it seems to cause playful kittenish Behavior yeah but could something deeper be happening that cat is seeing all kinds of [ __ ] right now they're the king of the jungle I mean the Jaguars in the real jungle people and their hallucinogenic rituals yeah the brains fascinating I mean it's biology itself is it's pretty pretty complicated and yeah look at this Jaguar's eyes are dilated this the same exact plant that people use in iasa rituals so this Jaguar is eating it and he's lying on his back the Jaguar also takes yaj to heighten it senses when it [Music] hunts it's pretty fascinating stuff like so much of weird nature there is still so much to know the um the the human gut produces monoamine oxidase which makes dimethyl tryptamine uh it doesn't it kill kills it in the gut so that if you consume grass that has uh DMT in it you're you don't have a psychedelic trip but I don't know if a a cat has the same gut enzymes yeah I don't I'm not sure yeah no your gut your gut has a lot I mean it's making neurotransmitters your you know it's there's there's neurons down there doing stuff and there's a connection between the brain and the gut as well but it's just so the whole thing about the human mind is so fascinating where someone like you who is just sort of putting together all these different things that you found and and different books and and you go well hey look at this combination of things is going on and the vitamin D and D vitamin D depletion and then here we have this issue with autism and autism has to do with inflammation and the gut and has to do with vit I put together a lot of stuff and I explained the male you know dominance and all this and uh really my
goal was look maybe I'm right on you know maybe I'm wrong on some of these things but you know I'm definitely right about some some of these things here I'm interjecting it interjecting it into you know the world the scientific world for all you people that actually do research on autism and do research on serotonin and all this because I don't I mean that's not what I do um and and I think that that's it's it's good to have theoretical papers like that sometimes where it's like you get someone who can make all these connections where there's tons of stuff buried in the literature and I had a mechanism I had a specific mechanism that explained it and uh you kind of just say here now if you think if you think this interesting follow up on it and actually we started collaborating with a group that does do do research on one of these you know uh looks at serotonin and does vitamin D research and they were just jumping out of their chairs they were so excited and so now they're doing experiments and have already found positive data which is really nice and reinforcing but so that's you know that was that was my goal is to kind of just make these connections big picture you know find a mechanism finding a mechanism by by which vitamin D regulated tonin was amazing and uh putting it out in literature I mean but the the whole vitamin thing vitamin D3 uh is important and I think it's something that most people are 70% of the population is not getting an adequate you know 70% 70 yeah actually um we have someone reached out to me on on Twitter after after the last podcast an artist and he was like look I really like what you're doing and you know I've been wanting to make a cool infographic just basically summarizing everything I ever talk about with vitamin D it's like all in one graphic and he did for me and if you want to pull it up it's on foundy fitness.com oh yeah uh vitamind D no vitamin hyen D and it's a freaking awesome infographic where this gu what's this guy's name oh his name is Jason Wright um Jason Wright right on Jason right yeah so uh he made this infographic where it's like basically I talk about how Vitamin D regulates a thousand different genes in the body yeah here it is so it starts off here it's got this guy with all these like
chromosomes in with teir because vitamin D is important for tiir length oh I want to talk about that too oh totally and then if you scroll down it's like look he's showing oh 70% of the US population does not have adequate levels I thought that was really I like how he made the graph too you see 10 people and three of them have it and seven of them don't right and then it goes on and this is like your uh tag Cloud where it's like all the things that like go wrong when you don't have enough vitamin D that's incredible isn't that awesome so and it's like learning impairments you know reduce serotonin increased cancer risk all I mean nine over a thousand different genes in the body so then you scroll down more and it shows a tum because it actually DNA uh DNA repair enzymes are regulated by vitamin D as well so if you're not getting enough vitamin D you're going to have you can see that break in your DNA you're going to get damage to your DNA and then as you keep going it shows you oh all the factors that regulate your vitamin D like how sunscreen blocks UVB so you can't make it with sunscreen U melanin which is an adaptation to prevent UVB you know Rays from burning you also blocks your ability to make vitamin D and body fat regulates it so all these different body fat regulates regulates the bioavailability of it so it has to be released into the bloodstream to get converted into active hormone age age regulates it uh 70-year-old makes um four times less Vitamin D from their skin than their former 20-year-old self all these things living in the northern latitude is another thing people that live in like I think it says uh above 37° North with the exception of of the summer they cannot make any Vitamin D from the Sun wow so the the solution is vitamin D supplement and uh we you know this is just a really awesome way to put all this great information uh you know show it with graphics people like that and it's hard easier for people to understand and it and I go into you know what your level should be and all that but I was really stoked because uh I've been wanting to do this for a really long time and I have no artistic capabilities so no that's so cool someone just reaching out to me and and wanting to help was like you know was
really cool so um where is it on your website if you're looking for it um I think if you sign up for my newsletter I think that's how you get it yeah yeah I think that's that's how you get your website's getting crushed right now it's really hard to even get to is it it took me five chances to get to it wow yeah it's not so so yeah that that's the uh the cool the vitamin D that's very cool yeah totally the talir length thing the reason I wanted to get to that is because I had emailed you about this supplement that I had read about called ta65 and I had read about it because my friend Bobby uh uh he uh emailed me about it and uh his dad was taking that's bad Bobby for folks on the message board b a a d b o BB y um he uh his dad was taking in his dad started experiencing um vision improvement and I was like that that's [ __ ] crazy so like what is this ta65 stuff so so I go on to Google and I Google ta65 and there's all these crazy claims and a lot of people are selling it and you know there's a lawsuit against it because there was a guy who was working for the company a former executive who uh who is's suing them because he says that it might have caused him to to get cancer and I mean the the idea is what they're saying this is uh you know the company that sells it um this is the correlation between cellular aging and telr length is rooted in solid research telr become shorter every time a cell divides and when they are lost cells can no longer reproduce the enzyme telr telas how do you say it Tas tarase Tas can lengthen telr possibly slowing or reversing degenerative diseases in one study mice genetically engineered to lack functional telay taras Tas taras to to lack functional t taras showed brain degeneration and shrunken testes but those effects were reversed when the enzyme was reactivated and such findings have sparked a lot of hype and encouraged a cottage industry of companies that assess a person's biological age on the basis of their telr length but ta Sciences has taken the buzz further and they sell a pill called ta65 which it says can shorten can lengthen excuse me short Tel yes all right no yes but let me let me explain this is I mean so complicated but I think I can I think I can shed some
light I can so this is all right you know tares you know every cell in your body has 46 chromosomes with the exception of your you know gametes which I have 23 but um these chromosomes have your DNA okay they're wound up with these histone proteins and that's where your DNA is and at the end of these chromosomes are your taires um the problem is is that these TMR have a funny structure where their DNA um they had it's a it's a repeat of TT a g and there's like this structural defect in your in the DNA of the tiir where uh there's a big overhang and like one of your strains of DNA is longer than the other one and so when your cell when the cell divides and it's it's got to copy its entire genome with all those 46 chromosomes to make a new cell with all that same DNA there's there's a little Gap there at the end because it's like oh my God I don't have anything here where do I how do I make the new DNA and so what happens is the next cell then has a little bit shorter T because there was that little Gap that didn't get filled and this is happening Su successfully over multiple Generations year after year after year after year each time it gets a little shorter each time it gets a little shorter and that becomes a problem because these teir are actually protecting your DNA from damage you know oxidative damage from from unwinding and also from your chrom your chromosomes when your cell divides uh you're they protect your chromosomes from fusing together and like getting all these funny abnormal translocations which lead to cancer and other uh problems so you don't want that to happen and the problem is is that you most of our cells with the exception of our stem cells and our lymphocytes don't express this enzyme called tase which is able to actually rebuild the ters it's actually able to rebuild the end where that that tiir um little Gap where we can't make it so it's really cool like well here's this great enzyme that can rebuild it but why is it only in our stem cells and why isn't it in all of our cells uh the the gene is there but it's just not activated it's you know silenced and the uh answer for that is well if you're if you express too much toras and all these other cells um what happens is you can make a cell Immortal and cancer cells
have actually developed they're so smart cancer cells are like the smartest thing ever um they've developed this this capability to react activate that enzyme to become immortal um but the really ironic thing is is that it's the critically short T liir when your short when your tumr get to a really really really short stage they go into this crisis where it's like oh my God what do I do what do I do you know and they either die or they you know go into this senescent state where they don't divide or they somehow can reactivate this tase and at that point if they reactivate this Tas you can if you if this is a damaged cell that already has mutations and stuff you you're like boom okay we're going to we're going to keep you going now so it it's kind of paradoxal that the short tiir length is what actually can reactivate the tarase to make make it become immortal and make cancer yeah well if you already have mutation yeah if it's already like an abnormal cell because you've already gotten damage and stuff to it yes exactly you can take a pre-cancerous cell and say here keep going grow more so um so this is uh the tase is in stem cells because your stem cells aren't divided that much they're usually just sitting around waiting to they have to come out and divide and make more of a certain cell type and then they go back into just waiting around so they're not constantly you know dividing meaning they're not constantly um get at risk for more damage and I can explain that later but anyway so the the taras and the mice this is kind of cool so you you talked about these taras deficient mice well mice actually it's really weird they express toras in all their cells their tumers don't get shorter and yet they only live two years on average and so in order to try to understand the biological mechanisms by which teum shortening what that what what those effects are you have to genetically engineer them to not express that to laras and what happens is over multiple Generations it takes like three three or when you get to generation four you know then you start to see proarc types of effects where now these mice they're born this the fourth generation of not having this enzyme it Tak takes like that long to actually get the tiir to a really short level where it starts to
have pery effects and they start to prematurely age their tissues start to you know break down and they have all these sorts of Aging effects um and so what they've shown is they can reactivate taras at that point after four generations and it reverses those biological effects so the tissues become younger the stem cells you know are are you know active and and making replenishing populations like they're supposed to so it's kind of cool it's like here you have pro-aging Mouse you reactivate the enzyme and it it literally reversed the Aging in these mice would that have a possible benefit to children that have pereria so um the it depends on what type of pereria there's there's certain ones like there's Warner syndrome which if you um pull up if you just Google Warner syndrome and image it w r n r Warner that's a a disease that's um invol involves you know short talir so you basically you're you're you can't rebuild your talir and it's excessive talir shortening and what happens is yeah if you click on the the one with the two pictures of the women um by the time they reach puberty like 15 uh no not not that one the there was if you go back there's there yeah the it's like Filipino woman there I think there we go leftand Corner perfect yes so like she ages normally up until the age of about 15 and then after 15 she's 40 years old in that right right hand picture wow 40 I mean she looks like she's like 80 right or 90 yeah she looks pretty old so um in that in that case it'd be interesting to see if if having tares could help rebuild the T limers but like I said because of the potential danger of allowing a pre-cancerous cell to become immortal I think there's been a lot of there's a lot of people are careful about that and that's why it's not like on the market right now where you're just but it is but people are selling it this is the thing this uh ta65 stuff and this is the uh the lawsuit is that this guy who worked for them uh is saying that he got cancer so the thing with reactivating taras is if you are if you generally are healthy you don't have a lot of you know your C reactive proteins low you don't you don't have a lot of inflammation a lot of damaged cells then a lot of
pre-cancer cells your immune system is getting rid of them you know reactivating Tas in a normal cell is not really a bad thing it's not going to make it a cancer cell it's going to make it Immortal it's going to help you know it not have critically short tiir the problem is reactivating it in a cell that has a bunch of damage in it and so to me you know measuring looking looking at how much damage is in your cell like we can do that I do that right now and people I take their blood cells and I look at DNA damage look at mine check them out yeah yeah you have to come you can't uh what have to do you'd have to come down to the bay and uh the Bay Area and sign a consent form that's it just like you sign a consent form when you uh do a podcast uh yeah different form kind of kind of like that just to to be in part of my trial so so like what what do you do so what I do is I I take blood well I get an MD to take it from for me and so they draw the blood and then I take the blood and I centrifuge it through this gradient where I can then um isolate just the peripheral blood monuclear cells which are like mostly B and T lymphocytes that's in some monocytes so I don't have any red blood cells or platelets or any of those neutrophils I don't want those or macras or things like that so and I take those those um peripheral blood monuclear cells and I look at the amount of double stranded breakes in the DNA so I can actually measure that I can quantify that and um not only do I look at those double stranded Brakes in the DNA so I'm I the double stranded braks um I think we talked about this a little bit last time so just normal living it's just it's so it's so like here's Aging for you in a nutshell just normal age uh living your metabolism your mitochondria are Genera generating oxygen R radical which you know get to your DNA and you get enough of these oxygen radicals to cause a strand break and then you get them in parallel you have two strand breaks UV radiation does the same thing but let's just forget about all the outside stuff like forget about carcinogens UV smoking all that just normal you know living does this and this happens every single day you know and so your your body has to repair that damage and I talked about those enzymes that are magnesium
magnesium dependent and how magnesium is important for DNA repair enzymes and 45% of the population doesn't have enough of that well I'm looking at people that are obese uh and those people usually don't have a really good diet and they're most often magnesium deficient well I don't want to say deficient because it's not like a clinical acute deficiency it's like they're inadequate okay they have inadequate levels of magnesium they're not taking in you know enough magnesium which is 400 or so milligrams a day they so I look at their DNA their strand breaks and then I have this because I think that they're not getting enough magnesium I don't I'm not actually measuring their magnesium someone else um that I work with can do that but I haven't we haven't I haven't found you know it necessary to do that yet um then what I'm doing is I'm I'm measuring the capacity of their that their body has to repair unnown amount of damage that I induce so I look at their Baseline damage see how much how much damage is there and then I induce damage with an radiator and then I measure over time the ability of their own enzymes to repair that damage and what I'm finding is that if I look at someone who's lean or obese based on BMI then I'm seeing there's differences I'm seeing that people with with that are obese like have a BMI of 30 or so they have a lot more of this damage in their blood cells and not only do they have a lot more of this damage their capacity to repair this damage is impaired so and it makes sense to me you know you're you're looking you're talking about people that are eating poor diets they're they're eating very macronutrient Rich diet diets you know they're eating a lot of processed foods and junk food and they're not getting their micronutrients their essential vitamin zinc mag magesium these are these are required for like 300 different you know enzymes to work in the body and so I'm measuring one of those and that's DNA repair which is important to prevent cancer um so anyways what were we talk we were talk ta65 that's right so I went on this whole so that's aging that's part of Aging in a nutshell and there's other points of it I can we can get back to later in the conversation but so ta65 is um I was actually really impressed because I read a couple of the
studies so ta65 EST stralis rout some Chinese um herb or something or that's that's what it that's what it's from I I believe from from what I read and uh I think I'm saying it right the aralas uh rout so it has the capacity to activate Tas um and there's there's two different papers that were pretty good one paper was a clinical paper where they they looked they gave people varying doses of ta65 and I don't remember the exact doses but they did a dose response and they looked at a couple of things a they looked at the activation of that enzyme tase and B they looked at TIR length so they started the trial Baseline measured TIR length and Tas activity and then they gave people these ta65 various doses of it and what they found is that in a dose dependent manner The ta65 increased the Tas activity um and not only did it increase Tas activity in the very high doses in a in a subset of people it actually increased the length of their tiir over Baseline I've never seen this before usually so usually you're when you're doing you know a lot of other things affect T length vitamin D is one one of them vitamin D the way vitamin D affects T length is totally different than the way ta65 does because vitamin D is preventing DNA damage inflammation things that accelerate TM or shortening ta 5 is literally rebuilding the end of your tiir so it's possible to actually start and end up with a longer tiir as opposed to you know other nutritional factors that regulate just delaying the attrition of it does that make sense yes so the over Baseline they had like a 40% I believe from reading that paper a while ago 40% increase in telmer length that's incredible it was incred it's incredible so then I went and read the the other study which was the the mouse study um and actually the woman the lead investigator on that I'm very familiar with her work I was really close to doing a postto in tiir in a tiir lab because i' I've been very interested in tiir for quite some time um so I had been familiar with her her papers like her Publications and I was like when I saw that she was it was from her lab I was like oh it's I know I'm familiar with her work you know I she's pretty good I'm pretty thorough and so her paper what she did was she took that same Mouse model that I was
talking about were they over successive Generations they knock out that tase enzyme and they over you know three or four or five generations they start to get these mice that have really short tiir that are aging their tissues are aging quicker and they gave those mice like third or fourth generation mice ta65 and what they found was that giving those mice the ta65 was able to rejuvenate their their tissue you know their their tissu started to to look younger very similar to T reactivation not as robust which isn't surprising I mean you're talking about reactivating the entire enzyme versus something that's just you know able to activate it um but they the mice didn't get cancer um they didn't get any types of cancer so but like I said now if you were to take if you were to take a mouse model knock out their toras enzyme inoculate them with cancer cells so give them cancer cells and then react and then give them the ta65 it'd be they're probably going to do that experiment I mean that's the that's the logical thing to do next just to make sure um just to really prove that it's it's it's pretty safe um so bottom line is I was impressed with ta65 um actually surprisingly so and you know personally I I you know I I think there's always that risk it's like well if you have a lot of pre-cancerous cells there's no telling I you know I obviously if if it was a big issue more people would coming down with cancer I wonder how many people are taking this stuff I I I've only heard of a couple of people that I know that are taking it I've read some folks online on a message board that I go to that say they started taking it but I don't know enough about how many are I don't know how many people are taking it either um that that would be my one concern though is that having a bunch of pre-cancerous cells reactivating toras in those cells then pushing them giving them the fuel they need to then make more cancer cells that's a possibility the people that own the company they what the GU the whole thing is really really odd I don't know exactly what happened because apparently there was like some sort of a physical Al altercation with the guy who's suing them and they're suing him because they're saying that they lost $2 million in sales because he said that he got
cancer which is and they're also saying that if he had cancer he had it before he started taking ta65 how the [ __ ] could you ever know that right well but that's the thing that's that's the thing if you have cancer before taking it right I'm not saying this is going to happen I'm saying theoretically reactivating tilas could push those cancer cells to full-blown pre-cancer cells to full blown blown cancer because now there's immortalizing them and letting them survive and and propagate and proliferate yeah so here's the question and here's the big one is there a diet a thing that you can do the word is always oh you need to have a you know cancer cells can't grow in an alkaline environment but I've I've heard that that's horeshit too that this idea of alkalizing your blood and having a diet that makes your blood or your body alkaline rich is horseshit I'm totally not familiar with any of that so never heard of that before um I've heard of people wanting to alkaline their blood I didn't know why I never really followed up on it and I certainly haven't heard about the cancer connection to it so that's new to me um I've definitely heard of other things people are trying to do well you can go alkaline cancer and one of the first things that pops up is myth the acid alkaline myth um if what I've read the that's counteracting this is that if you did alter the alkaline of your body like the the variables are so small that if you if you alter it in in in any sort of a shocking way your body just is [ __ ] like it's it's not good right no it's true I mean I think with the exception of of of the gut where you're trying to actually make a little more you want you want these uh different gut bacteria to make more acidic you know to be more acidic and make more you know acidic type of environment to get rid of the the bad bacteria which can't grow in that type of environment um but all the other stuff I think yeah there's there's slight changes and and pH and I mean you're you're talking about activating these things immune systems sensitive to this sort of stuff I mean it's like all of a sudden you start activating your nutrifil and you know they don't know why they're activated
but when they're activated it's just like fire fire fire fire fire and they're fire firing all kinds of crap cyto kindes which are making you know reactive nitrogen species which are damaging your DNA and your lipids and your protein so it's like you know there's there's things like that going on um you don't you know yeah anyways this this this critique of it was saying that Foods don't influence the blood pH and they were saying this is I'll just read what it says here um on this guy's website proponents of the alkaline diet have put forth a few different theories about how acidic diet harms our health the most ridiculous claim more ridiculous claim is that we can change the pH of our blood by changing the foods we eat and that the acidic blood causes disease while alkaline blood prevents it this is not true the body tight this all reference to uh I'll give the guys website it's uh Chris creser c r i s KR e s.com um um this is not true the body tightly regulates the pH of our blood and extracellular fluid and we cannot influence our blood pH by changing our diet with references uh high doses of sodium bicarbonate can temporarily increase blood pH but not without causing uncomfortable GI syndromes symptoms rather and there are certainly circumstances in which blood is more acidic than it should be and this does have serious health consequences however this state of acidosis is caused by pathological conditions such as chronic renal insu insufficiency not by whether or not you choose to eat a salad or a burger in other words regardless of what you eat or what your urine pH is you can be pretty confident that your blood pH is hovering around a comfortable 7.4 yeah so all that you know oh you need to make your body alkaline and cancer can't exist in an alkaline environment horseshit right I you know I just don't know enough about that that stuff um honestly to say if it definitively if it's you know I I really don't I know that things in vitro you know when you're looking at cancer if you're talking about growing cancer cells in a dish and changing that you know environment environment is one thing but I don't know yeah yeah I don't know either that's the problem God damn it well I mean it's something if you if
you want to email me I'll look into it yeah I will yeah just it's a matter of me not H having dug into something like that yeah but that's like it's one of those things that just gets repeated over and over again by the way it's this is apparently this this uh myth busting is there's a bunch of different websites that say that it's horseshit so and a bunch of different doctors with references about the um this this whole alkaline thing here's a cancer myth number one that cancer doesn't feed on sugar almost every new patient says well ask me about this a theory is prevalent on the internet that Sugar will influence blood sugar levels feed cancer and cause it to spread the truth is you can't really control blood sugar by what you eat the body's complex system processes what we eat and manages to keep blood sugar level stable well that's is that true that doesn't make sense well I mean you're obviously when you're eating sugar you're inducing an insulin response which then you take the sugar up into your cells so that regulates the blood sugar levels unless that doesn't unless you're you know type two diabetic or something that's not working then you know then you can't regulate your blood sugar levels normally and that's not good it's saying the exception to this of course is people with diabetes who don't have the proper insulin regulating systems but if you apply the theory that Sugar can affect your insulin levels and feed cancer diabetics with cancer would all be dying of their cancer what what yeah exactly what kind of [ __ ] quote is that Dr holand Who are you you [ __ ] weirdo that doesn't make any sense there's he's an oncologist too specializes in gastrointestinal and esophagal esophagal esophagal yeah esophageal cancers says at worst uh these myths may lead vulnerable cancer patients to try untested treatments or procedures H you know the thing is is that cancer cells do acquire this capability to become glycolytic where they're instead of using glucose to convert into pyate and go into the mitochondria and use this whole mitochondrial uh metabolism oxidative phosphorilation to generate energy they become they use this whole pathway that's called glycolysis which is a it's a much shorter pathway and they they're
using it to to generate you know that's how they're using it to generate their energy so I think that probably plays a role in people coming up with all these different theories and and things that manipulating the glucose and all that what what it can do I know that you know I did a lot of work manipulating cancer nutrients and cancer cells in grad school and um you know getting if I if I had this is in vitro first of all if I do it in vitro and I take if I take a cancer cell and I take away their glucose but they still have all these glutamine they have you know these other amino acids and that they were fine they'd grow slower but they wouldn't die if I took away their glutamine they would die within like like 24 hours and it's you know for me to think about cancer cells well not only do they need energy ATP they need nitrogen source to make new nucleotides for new DNA and also new amino acids they need you know molecules like to build lipids for lipid or you know your lipid membrane so it it there's a lot of you know just just taking away the glucose is one thing but there's a lot of other you know macro molecules that are really required for cancer proliferation that are also important so you know taking some taking some of the stuff that we're learning in science and immediately applying it I think in some cases can be a little dangerous um you know just because we don't exactly understand EXA how all these mechanisms are working together so I I'm a little you know cautious about taking some something that we're learning in science and immediately applying it to to yourself especially if you have cancer it's so fascinating me if you think about like the last time I was here I was talking about the folic acid yeah you know and and how that's that's a perfect you know example where you know folic acid is is great for you if you don't have cancer because you can build new DNA but if you have cancer taking a lot of it is not great for you because you build new DNA and that's what cancer cells are doing when they're dividing so you know that's and there's another example of that with another micronutrient V one of the vitamin E's so uh actually if this would be a transition into to some of the offit stuff because he was talking about that
specifically oh the the doctor that stuff that I sent you yeah this is um so we'll we definitely get into that and I would love to in a moment so just to let everybody know it it seems you know if you're not interested in doing any of the research it seems that almost everyone who's done any research on this alkaline diet thing says it's horseshit but they do say that these foods that they're suggesting that you eat to keep an alkaline rich diet are very healthy for you so in that sense it's good for you because it's going to provide your body with the nutrients that it needs uh especially if you're nutrient deficient you're much more likely to be unhealthy if you're much more likely to be unhealthy your immune system is going to have a harder time dealing with any host of different diseases but that this alkaline thing of your body your body basically hovers between 7.35 and 7.45 your stomach is very acidic with a pH of 3.5 or below so it can break down food and your urine changes depending on what you eat and that's how your body keeps the level and body steady but that this idea that you're going to regulate the alkaline of your body with food and that you're going to keep your body in an alkaline State HED well there's a lot of those sort of like myths going on in fact recently I think I I saw on your Twitter you posted something I don't know a couple days ago about kale and uh yeah it's it's really kind of it's It's Kind there these people are doing more harm in the sense in some cases uh so you know kale kale and the cruciferous family like broccoli cabbage brussels sprouts these things um they have something in them called gluc glucosinolates okay and glucosinolates can get they get cleaved by an enzyme called myrosinase which is in the plant and it forms something called isoo sinat and isoo sinat are very um they've been shown to be very potent anti-cancer agents so they activ it's actually a part of that hormesis I was talking about because these are generated in the plant as a natural me defense mechanisms it's one of their natural defense mechanism against bugs it's like a natural pesticide in in a sense they produce it to keep bugs away isothiocyanates are for us uh activate a variety of different genes that are
involved in stress resistance including tumor suppressor genes which actually kill tumor uh cells and so and they've shown this they've shown this you know quite a few times that if you if you give mice like you know mice that have cancer isoi Oates they will kill the cancer cells and the whole isoo sinat thing also comp competitively binds to I uh the iodine transporter in the thyroid so here comes this whole oh my God you can't eat kale because or cruciferous because it uh will screw up your thyroid and cause hypothyroidism right so the thing is though is these isoi Oates they could they appear to competitively bind to the same transporter that iodine does to get into the thyroid now I was looking for the paper where they showed that and it's like 1948 because what I wanted to see was a dose dependent manner of giving them you know these isothiocyanates or kale and show how much of it you know competes it with iodine and how much you know doesn't well I couldn't get access to that paper but what I did find is that when you give these mice isothiocyanates a lot of them that kills cancer cells but it doesn't cause any thyroid problems which leads me to believe is that the isoyan probably very very very small degree of uh competitive inhibition of getting iodine into your thyroid which if you don't if you aren't low in iodine wouldn't be a problem because you not you know so if it's just very small amount of it competing with it to get it to get iodine into the thyroid it's not going to be a problem unless you're really really deficient in I iodine and then any small amount you need so in my opinion and for me uh ISO I love getting isoi Oates from from these cruciferous and by the way the enzyme myrosinase that converts that the glucose and Oates into isoc thoat is heat sensitive um so if you heat it it will generally inactivate it not completely but it does inactivate it for the most part and so you're not getting as many of those isoi Oates which is probably why people started to say oh boil your boil your kale or um I personally want the isothiocyanates because the data is so strong showing that these things kill cancer cells I mean it's it's a well-known fact that these things so this idea that raw kale or any of these raw raw was the other
Sprouts there's yeah brussels sprouts but then there's another so that's that story but the idea that those are bad for you seems [ __ ] well yeah that's what I'm just I mean to me it it you know hormesis okay it depends on what you're defining as bad for you saying hormesis it's inating a bunch of genes that are tumor suppressor genes that kill cancer cells I mean it's good for you these isites are good good for you if you don't if you're not like completely deficient in iodine which most people aren't I mean I think there there's some problem with women in their 20s or 40s but if he supplemented iodine while you were taking these ISO ISAT ISAT they're very I've been talking about these for years like how awesome they are I want them like I want them in my box I want my isoo so you almost swore I'm telling you I did I you said so um cuz they're [ __ ] awesome uh it kind of irks me because I'm like I see all this stuff and it's like no yeah you know don't not you know don't not eat your raw kale because you you want to get things like isoo there's there's chemicals in these plants that are yes they're you know they're slightly toxic but they're inducing stress response mechanisms in our body that are are good for us they're fighting off all the all the bad stuff that we're making in our body every day you know it's it's a good thing pre-cancerous cells are always happening you want tumor suppressor genes are genes that when there's something's wrong like you have you get that DNA damage I was talking about something happens or a mutation happens in a Cell it senses it you know and it activates this whole response pathway where it's like die and it kills the cell so having something that activates those Pathways in your body like isoi sinat is a good thing it's you know and and personally I want more of them so so all this stuff about this poorly researched bad conclusions um so the thing is when you look at the when you look in the literature um the the the if you're trying to look at the the effects of ISO thoat on thyroid function there's not a whole huge literature on it like I said I was looking for the experiment to prove to
me I wanted to see how much competitive inhibition there was I think they're also called i3s i3s on the iodine transport in the floww I couldn't find it I i' saw review articles where they referred to it I look to the reference go to the reference it's you know it's some other review it's just there's no I wanted to see the data and I had to dig like dig until I got to 1948 where they did this competitive binding essay um and then I found you know other papers talking about oh it's only an effect if you have low iodine which made me think well I can't see the data but what I think makes sense is that only if it's it's such a low competitive binding that it's not you know it's not like if you eat this you're going to not get iodine it's that if you already are at that point where you don't have it any little bit you don't get makes a difference and I know and I know this because the M the mouse models where they're not even looking at thyroid function they're looking at the effects of isoy on killing cancer cells those mice have no problems with becoming hypothyroid and they're giving them large doses so to me I'm like okay okay well that would have been a side effect they would have noticed you know so so this is just completely theoretical and it doesn't work it doesn't work in practice this idea of getting hypothyroidism from I think if you have normal levels of iodine it's F you're fine but if you're if you're like one of those people that is iodine deficient it may it may affect you because if it if if there's a small amount of it it does seem to um compete with iodine transport but I think it's a very small competitive amount it's not a it's not like all the iodine it's not like all or nothing like all of it's getting in or not getting in I think it's a very small amount that doesn't get in but if you're not I if you're getting your iodine and you know it doesn't does that are you following to totally totally okay so that I hope people can follow that because I really there's so much of that online these days there's so much contrarianism there's so many people that want to debunk anything that comes out that's the thing and and the other one is this alyc acid I think you kind of conf confused the two that was the one that Dave asprey had talked about that's why
the oxic acid yeah with kale that's why I brought that up because yeah he had said that you had a boil kale because of oxalic acid and drain the water okay so let me tell you about that um the oxalic acid I think there's a little bit in kale but it's mostly in spinach oxyc acid's in spinach much stronger in spinach right that's the highest quantity of it and the what people are saying on the internet from what I could see on this whole you know Echo chamber thing that happens is that you need to boil Your Spinach I guess or some people they're saying kale um because then you're going to inactivate this oxyc acid and now it's not going to bind up minerals like magnesium and calcium and they're saying that this is a problem if you don't do this because then you're going to get kidney stones right so I was looking in the literature and I found a really cool experiment done by this Japanese group where they took spinach raw spinach they boiled it they fried it they frizzled it I mean so they did you know various different temperatures and they you know then you make it into a powder to give to these mice that are magnesium deficient they they put them on a magnesium deficient diet and they fed them either the raw spinach The Boiled the frizzled fried and they measured magnesium levels in their blood in their bone um and they measured calcium levels in their Blood and Bone and also in their kidneys and what they found was that there was no difference in the magnesium and calcium level in the bone and also in the serum whether or not you boiled raw fried whatever frizzled uh however oh sorry no Cal the calcium levels there were there was a difference from frying it or frizzling it but the raw and the boiling were the same and basically the conclusions were it doesn't affect absorption boiling or raw it's the same you're going to absorb the same amount of magnesium calcium there were magnesium and calcium in the kidney they did have them in the kidney and it was a little bit higher concentrated versus the control but it wasn't causing you know kidney stones and things like that and there was no difference between boiling or not so if you're going to make the claim that you know having oxyc acid causes you know kidney stones and you need to boil it well maybe just
there maybe you need to say don't eat it but I don't think that's the case I don't think any of that's the case so having oxyc acid in your diet from consuming it in raw form not bad I think it's it you'd have to consume a massive massive amount to to cause something that would be like kidney stone like so what do you mean like eating it every day all day no I mean like eating like like pounds pounds of it a day yeah every day yeah every day okay so that's beautiful you know I'm not here here's the bottom one I I have not convinced myself that I have to boil any of my spinach or kale before I eat it raw I actually I actually put it in a smoothie every morning I make a smoothie with k kale raw kale raw spinach tomato carrot avocado banana almond milk some berries and protein powder as well anyways um I haven't convinced myself that eating raw spinach in my smoothie every day you know and I put you know I put a nice amount of it it's not pounds of it but um I haven't convinced myself that I'm doing any harm and this is obviously not just based on the way your body reacts but based on the research that you've done this is based on the the the little bit of raing that I've done on on those the isoi Oates I'm definitely convinced that you know the the oxalic acid you know because it does bind minerals it's key later um you know there may be some cases where kidney you know can accumulate in the kidney but I think that from from my reading that's a really really large dose and I haven't convinced myself yet I'm not saying it's not possible but I haven't convinced myself that I need to worry about it so the idea that you're getting some sort of toxins from the veg vegetables because the vegetables are trying to prevent predation right nonsense no you are getting T I mean but nonsense that it's bad for you it's it's it there they're activating hormesis so it is kind of toxic for you it kind of it's but it's activating stress response Pathways that are ultimately it's like okay A little bit of bad for you activating a pathway really really good for you because now you're now you're turning on hundreds of genes right that are involved in DNA repair that are involved in GL cione peroxidase getting rid of oxidation that are involved in uh
you know making I mean making sure cancer cells die so to me you know you are getting a little bit of these toxins from these plants absolutely but your body's counteracting of these toxins is incredibly beneficial your body is Inc yeah your body is pretty amazing um and it is pretty beneficial the reaction to to some of these toxins so the point being that the incorrect correlation that people have made between the very low toxicity between these these plants kale broccoli whatever and them being something that you should avoid consuming unless you boil them that's just not doesn't seem to make sense in my opinion it doesn't make sense doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense to me either so I think people can take something little and it becomes Sensational and they're like oh it's very Sensational because what's good for you is bad for you but if you do this little thing it becomes good for you again and I think that some it's a good marketing tactic in some respects do you know what I mean where there is one case there's a a study um that you could find on a pub Med site about ool oxalate nephropathy due to juicing and uh this patient with uh oxalate induced acute renal failure that was attributable to a consumption of oxalate Rich fruit and vegetable juices obtained from juicing uh we describ the case and also review the clinical presentation of 65 patients seen at the male clinic in Rochester Minnesota from 1985 through 2010 with renal failure and biopsy proven renal calcium oxalate crystals the cause of renal oxalosis was identified for all patients a single cause for 36 patients and at least two causes for 29 patients three patients including our index patient had presumed diet induced oxalate nephro how do you say that word nephropathy nephropathy yeah the context of chronic kidney disease uh identification of calcium oxalate crystals in a kidney biopsy should prompt an evaluation for causes of renal oxalosis um so what does that mean yeah it's I mean it sounds like there these people how many of them were there that had the the from the juicing uh let's see 65 patients from 1985 to 2010 it's a long time and to have 65 patients and all of them were from actually single cause for 36 patients and at least two
causes for 29 patients so two causes yeah the single cause for the 36 patients they believe was juicing so there was one an N of one that they knew it was juicing okay and the other one there's two causes and the other one there's two causes so about three yeah so to me it sounds like like I said you know you're there's always going to be cases where you can't you can you can probably cause that to happen because it does bind and culate these ions especially juicing perhaps because you're taking a such a large quantity of vegetables and breaking them down to a juice would that make sense you get more oxalate acid maybe so um cuz like if you juice like think about like what a like a 16 o glass of juice how many vegetables have to go into that juice here to to liquefy it down to I I make smoothies for the most part I don't juice uh um occasionally I buy cold pressed juices but uh most of what I do I just like me I don't juice either um I've I actually have not ever Juiced I I make smoothies as well but you know there it sounds to me like there can be cases where you're getting a really concentrated amount of this and you're doing it every day because there's people out there that go extreme and no matter what they do they go like to the extreme and you know because you can you know the the oxyc acid or the annion of it the oxalate can bind does bind to these metal ions it keates them then you know it absolutely could accumulate in your kidney so but you would so the real key is the thing that we've always been taught to eat a balanced diet I think most people are not going to that extreme right and I don't think most people have to be under a fear that they can't eat raw raw spinach that's the thing I don't think there you need to fear eating raw spinach I think maybe just don't be dumbass and like you know go way way way overboard right so you know eating some raw juices is probably really good for you eating nothing but raw juices all day all your life not so good for you you need animal protein or some need some other and yeah yeah um there was another guy I I know of a guy who uh Brock Lesnar was actually the UFC heavyweight champion who ate nothing but meat he was a [ __ ] crazy person and
he got Diverticulitis and he had to get H 12 in of his colon removed pretty serious operation it's really interesting that some no I you know I don't know how much of a degree of this is dose dependent but um there's bacteria in your gut called putrification bacteria and they're called that because they're the bacteria that make that really nasty smelling fart it's like hydrogen sulfide smells like pure hydrogen sulfide and those bacteria the putrification bacteria they actually use um like sulfate and and nitrate as their source of energy and they convert it into like for example hydrogen sulfide but they need um they so it's basically what we do with oxygen they do that with these sulfate and they they make it into hydrogen sulfide it's like us converting oxygen to water that's how we make ATP they do this by converting sulfate into hydrogen sulfide and that's their energy this purification bacteria well they need they need these um I guess co-actors to do this and that's heem heem is in red meat and so some people that eat really really large doses of red meat like what happens is you're giving those bacteria heem and they start to make hydrogen sulfide and the thing with hydrogen sulfide so you'll make first of all you get putrification of bacteria so you'll have nasty smelling farts like hydrogen sulfide farts um and also hydrogen sulfide com compe competitively binds to enzymes in our gut cells that make energy so they actually so it goes hydrogen sulfide goes and binds to these um electron transport chain enzymes that make ATP in our gut cells and competitively inhibits them from actually being able to reduce oxygen to water to make ATP so then your gut cells start to like starve down there and starts to break down the gut mucus barrier anyways it's a totally tangent and I don't know how I got on that I guess the meat the the the high meat diet right the diverticulitis that people got from eating only meat yeah so like I said I think it's a a dose you know really dose dependent thing cuz eating a little bit of meat it depends I mean you know your own body if you're eating tons of meat and you start smelling these hydrogen sulfide smart farts and that's not good right probably
not not good so if you smell a guy's farting like that you should talk to them but it's like it's not it's not the kind of fart that you know it's the it's the pure those ones that like oh good God yeah it's that it's that one yeah stuff's going on yeah those are bodybuilding farts if you're around any because they eat a lot of red meat right do they just well a lot of protein period you know does it affect all other types of protein no he he is in the it's what gives red meat the red color yeah it's specific to red meat so the more red meat the more horrible farts yeah pretty much that makes sense like what do you who do you think about having the worst farts it's always guys with big guts you know like if someone farts on an airplane you always look at the guy with a gut it's very difficult to figure out who's farting on an airplane it's one of the reasons why people are so sneaky about it yeah sneaky airplane farters you know who you are but the guys with the big guts they're usually the culprit it's it's I mean that's po it's the purification bacteria putrification bacteria I mean they're named for a reason yeah and they're they're pretty nasty makes you want to throw up it does it um so off it this is uh you know my friend Brian Ken who I love dearly but he's [ __ ] ridiculous and he's one of those guys that will get on this tangent and listen to one person say something and then spout it out as if it's [ __ ] gospel and he hit me with this Peter offet guy is that the guy's name Paul maybe Paul whatever the [ __ ] Dr offet whatever the [ __ ] his name is and he he listened to this guy and without debunking it online at all and I I did it real quick I did a real quick debunking of it and found a bunch of people who called [ __ ] on all of his claims I mean while these studies were from 1942 and it's just like so so much of what this guy had said was was horseshit um one of them often claimed that a study what this guy was basically saying was that taking vitamins and taking antioxidants can actually cause cancer and you know Callen of course never wants to be wrong so he's telling me no no no no no all studies confirm this like the [ __ ] they do man so I sent him all this this you know I i' barged him
with all these debunking sites and he backed off finally but for [ __ ] days his Twitter was all about don't take antiox he he I'm really so you convinced him no he [ __ ] called me up he's like dude I'm really worried about you you're taking antioxidants you're taking vitamins I'm where are you going to get cancer I'm like the [ __ ] are you talking about oh my God we need to we need to dive into this I mean so first of all it angers me what was the name of the book he wrote It's Do You Believe In not it's called I'm a [ __ ] that's book I'm a [ __ ] I'm trying to make money cuz that I think that's what's going on with a lot of these [ __ ] these contrarians with these people that make these articles I don't know how many of them are just idiots I don't know how many of them are like Brian Dunning where they just sort of they they're mentally deficient there's something wrong with the way they're thinking Works yes and you know and I I discovered that in communicating with Brian over three hours I'm like oh there's something wrong here and I don't know what it is and I don't want to know what it is but it's OB you're not normal you're not healthy your your correlations are not healthy the like just just in discussing buildings falling his like his his way of looking at things is unhealthy it's not it's not correct I don't know if that's what this guy's doing I don't know if a lot of these people are doing things I think they're just trying to get attention they're like Kale's gonna kill you [ __ ] Kale's gonna kill me everybody knows that people are loving kale these days people are finding these health benefits scales I talk talk freely and openly about how I drink kale salads or kale shakes rather on a regular basis and how I feel great when take them so and then you know people will sell send me these [ __ ] things so I retweet some of them and then I'll find contradictory articles I retweet those so this offit [ __ ] thing just drove me up a wall because I started reading all the people that call [ __ ] on this guy and all these people that say that he's kind of dangerous that the things he's saying are kind of dangerous cuz they're easily refutable but he's trying to sell them he's selling them selling them as fact yeah so let me let me let's dig in here
because I really um I was I first of all I wasn't familiar with the guy until you brought him to my attention and actually my my advisor my post-doctoral advisor he's an 85-year-old like world-renowned scientist he knew who the guy was and he was like you're going to crush him like he he really doesn't like this guy I mean he's familiar with his whole everything he's doing so that's why I was so angry at Ken because if you go online there's just a [ __ ] slew of reputable people that think this guy's a so I didn't read his book but I listened to the podcast and I took notes on what he said and and I'm ready let's let's go through some of this because I think it's really important first of all this guy makes huge overgeneralizations doesn't understand mechanism that's clear to me so the first thing the first thing he says is is that you know we should have if we're going to look at the effects of supplements we need to do randomized control trials we need to hold all drugs to the same standard when you do randomized control trials so randomized controls control trials are like the poster trial for pharmacological interventions drug interventions and what they are is you basically you get a population of people you split them into two two groups and you're going to have either your your drug blob blol or Placebo and you're going to give you know whichever group one drug blah blol the other group Placebo and you don't know who's getting what they don't know who's getting what and then you're going to look at some clinical endpoint like heart attack or mitoch carial in infarction or something like that and it's really a great design for that that sort of thing because you know when you start off at Baseline everyone in the trial has same levels of drug blah blob and all in their blood guess what zero because we don't make drugs we don't eat drugs you know it's not something that we're you know eating on a daily basis this is a pharmacological drug that's been designed with a certain mechanic mechanism of action to act on a certain thing to do a certain thing right like you know statens for example so you know you can do that where you have this randomized control trial for a certain x amount of time and you look at the effect on heart attacks
and you don't have to measure anything you know the problem is is that you can't apply that same thinking for nutrition research because everyone has different levels of vitamins and minerals in their body people eat different diets I mean you have people that are you know have inadequate levels of things are deficient in certain things have optimal levels of certain things and so if you just take this random group of people put them into two groups and then give them a vitamin supplement and then try to look at some clinical endpoint like hard attack well guess what you're going to have people that have were severely deficient and whatever you gave them they're still severely deficient or you're going to have people that are have total adequate levels and you're G giving them a vitamin they already have adequate levels of and you're trying to look at some clinical endpoint you can't do nutrition research with the same mind frame where whereas it's we're looking at we're going to do the same type of trial that we do for drugs you know that's just you can't do that you can't do that you have to think about the way you control and design a clinical trial and when you're doing nutrition research where you're where you're looking at the effects of vitamins and minerals first of all the there's two very different things going on when you have a pharmacological drug you're giving it to someone because they're already falling apart okay they're already falling apart and you're trying to help them not fall apart as fast by giving them something you know that blocks X or Y or Z like cholesterol synthesis for one statins um with vitamins and minerals these are things that are important from for for preventing you from falling apart these are things that we require these enzymes we need you know co-actors for enzymes that we need to do like hundreds of different physiological functions thousands of different physiological functions you know so we're talking about a different start point right it's not it's not like you give people vitamins when they're falling apart no they they need to be getting their vitamins to make sure they don't fall apart you know and so the whole randomized control trial using that that's so he kept saying this like we
need to hold vitamins to the same standard as drugs we need to have randomized control trials and that's how we you know determine whether or not they're effective or their efficacy basically but like I said you can't do that you have to measure people's vitamin and mineral levels let's like let's say you're looking at Vitamin D you know at Baseline to see how it efficient they are for one this is going to determine the dose that you give them you know if you someone's like 12 nanograms per milliliter and you give them 400 IUS a day they've even shown in that anals of internal medicine paper that doesn't work they're still going to be deficient at the of the trial because you know 400 I a day raises your blood levels by like 5 nanograms per milliliter so you can't that just not the way to do NE research the difference being that giving someone something that's completely alien to the body but could be beneficial like a drug or giving them something that is absolutely essential to the body that is necessary and is a part of normal everyday diet that you can't look at the two of them the same way that the drug may help people but the reality is you're introducing something that's completely alien to the person's system in order to benefit them whereas with vitamins you are just regulating or measuring what is essential to the human body and and pretty much has been established that vitamin B vitamin D vitamin C all these different things various aspects of of nutrition are essential to to human health that's one that's one aspect of it so you can't look at a drug the same way you look at Vitamin you can't and also like I said people already start off with varying levels of these vitamins so when you're randomizing them into two different populations you don't know some of these people could could be very deficient some have plenty of V vitamin you know K or whatever you're looking at so you need to measure them at Baseline get a deficient population you need to get a population that's low because the whole point of of you know giving someone a vitamin supplement is to bring them up to an adequate level it's not to like have some effect on top it's not like a drug where you're you know blocking some receptor and having some response no
you're taking vitamins and mineral supplements because you're not getting everything you need from your food and you want to get yourself up to an adequate level and so what you need to do is start off you need to measure people's levels at Baseline start off with a population that's inadequate give them a vitamin mineral supplement to get them to an adequate level and then you can measure something so it's really important and I think I even talked about this last time is quantifying these levels well this is the reason why you can't you you know starting off with the population of people that has enough vitamin D and you're trying to look at the effects of vitamin D on cancer incidents well guess what you know they already have enough vitamin D they're already in this adequate range or conversely if they're really really really deficient and you're looking at the effects of vitamin D and cancer incidents and you give them a dose that still makes them they're still deficient well guess what we don't know what how Vitamin D is affecting cancer inance from that one study because they're still deficient at the end of the trial you know so the conclusion is oh my dose was inefficient was inadequate to bring them to an adequate level of vitamin D that's that should be the conclusion not oh vitamin D doesn't affect cancer in which is what people tend to do they'll you know you have to sell your story to get it published you know you do all you do years and years work of research and uh you find this negative data it's like well you got to sell it somehow so you're not going to sell it by saying oh well didn't give them an adequate dose and they're still not you know up to adequate level so that's that's really uh the one first thing about offit and so many others including the people that wrote this whole enough is enough editorial they're the same they were looking at randomized control trials most of the time they started off with people didn't measure anything at all at start or throughout you know the the follow-ups and you know it's like well well the enough is enough was even worse because the enough is enough they were studying two of the things they were studying were heart attacks in people over 65 and dementia delaying the onset of dementia in people who are over 65
like Jesus [ __ ] Christ you're talking about people who are dying right and you're giving them vitamins and saying n didn't stop them from dying right you're dealing with completely broken human beings that are like on death door they're they're forgetting [ __ ] they don't know where they are and their heart's failing they like ah vitamins don't work so to say vitamins don't work in those two circumstances is ridiculous and their other circumstance showed a slight improvement with vitamins and yet they still came to conclusion that vitamins don't work because that's the most salacious title right they vitamins and minerals are important to prevent disease they are important to prevent disease you know it's not it's not like if you're already falling apart and you've already been deficient for years and years and years and years and years guess what it's much harder to patch things up much more difficult you've already acquired so much damage you've acquired so many different you things that are going wrong that trying to patch it up later is really difficult and so you know in those studies also they did things where they were giving it to cancer patients and like I said or smokers they were looking at the effects of beta carotene or vitamin A in smokers and the thing is is that smokers are a different breed because I mean they're taking in you know po Poison every day and what happens is their lungs they have a very oxidative environment so when they take vitamin beta katene which is part of the vitamin A family this beta carotene gets cleaved because they have oxidative stress and stuff going on it gets cleaved into some of these cleavage products which actually damage DNA more and and can accelerate cancer and but the thing is is that that's specific to smokers if you give the same dose of betacarotene to a non-smoker guess what that doesn't happen they don't get those cleavage products and it doesn't start damage their DNA more and it doesn't accelerate cancer so you know you have to really the context is so important like you know you can't just say oh vitamin A is bad for you no well if you're a smoker it's a you know this is a certain context where you know there can be problems with taking high doses of beta carotene for that reason where
you're you're you've got all these oxidative you know stress things going on and so they cleave the beta beta keratin to certain cleavage products that normal people don't get you know so context is very important and this is something that so many people so often ignore including off it um you know another he he basically states that and he says clear it's clear and consistent that antioxid antioxidant supplements are bad for you and can give you cancer and he gives two examples the one example he says is the prostate cancer study and the second example he says is because you need prooxidants around in your body to prevent cancer cells it kills cancer cells right okay so it's kind of like well that it's kind of a big overgeneralization and it really shows me his lack of understanding his lack of understanding of mechanism either because it's too much work to look into it because it's a lot of work or you know just because he doesn't care it's you know um so let's start off with the the first part he says you know vitamin E can cause prostate cancer this is this is huge this is actually there was a huge huge study called the uh select trial where they took the the selenium and vitamin E cancer prevention trial selenium is also important it's a co-actor for about 25 or so different protein that are one of them being glutathione uh peroxidase and synthes and all these different antioxidant genes um and it's been shown to uh selenium High selenium was correlated with low cancer incidents so they you know thought that would play a role in prostate cancer so they did this big trial where they got like something like 30,000 men is pretty big and they gave them supplements they gave them either vitamin E so vitamin E is actually there's a whole family of vitamin E it's not just one vitamin there's actually eight different forms of it and uh Alpha Beta Gamma Delta and there's they're present is either tocopherols or tools triols and the major forms are alpha and Gamma tocopherol okay and these two different forms of vitamin E the alpha and Gamma tocoferol they're they're antioxidants but they actually have separate functions so the alpha tocoferol is a very potent antioxidant so it's very good at you
know getting oxygen reactive oxygen radicals that's generated by like normal metabolism these things damage your DNA but they also damage your lip lipid like Bay of your membrane cell membranes what happens is vitamin E is fat soluble so it gets in those lipid Bayers and it prevents the that oxygen radical from damaging it and what happens is if you don't have that happening your lipid membranes get stiffer and stiffer over time and this is part of aging where you're you're they become rigid and it's hard to transport metabolites into your cells it's hard to transport proteins in and out it just it screws up stuff so it's important to have you know something like f Alpha to cerol preventing that from happening it also prevents your proteins from being oxidized which causes problems so that's really important to have you know and you actually need to get it from your diet vitamin E you have to get from your diet from Plants we don't make it ourselves the gamma form actually um is also an antioxidant but it's an anti- nitration one so nitration is formed from your immune system just normal immune function like you know fighting off things creates reactive nitrogen species so these nitrogen species also do the same thing as oxygen species they damage your DNA they damage your lipid membranes they damage proteins in your body so having both Alpha tofol and the GMA to cerol they're doing two independent functions is important because they're they're making sure you're not getting those oxygen or nitrogen reactive species damaging crap in your body basically okay and that's important to prevent cancer to prevent you know a lot of you know diseases of Aging so proteins that be become oxidized or get nitrated Aggregate and they can form you know things and plaques in your brain they can cause neurod degenerative diseases so it's it's important to have you know these antioxidant mechanisms in play to prevent that from happening as we age okay so with that said the alpha tofol and you can see how complex this is you know the alpha Tofer all is the major form in your tissues and in your bloodstream but the problem is is that when you take really high levels of it so the RDA is like 22.4 iuse when you take really high like 10 times that like
400 iuse what happens is it depletes your gamma levels okay and this has been well known for like over a decade multiple Labs have shown this including the lab I work in they showed it many years ago before I even joined uh their lab so you know taking high high levels of alpha can be bad because it depletes the gamma and the gamma has a separate function from the alpha it prevents that nitration it also uh is an anti-inflammatory inhibits Cox um enzymes which are involved in generating prostaglandins so what they did was they gave men either Alpha tofol 400 IUS so 10 times the RDA maybe even one than 10 times and selenium okay so they gave them either Alpha tofol selenium only or both Alpha tofol and selenium or the placebo and then they looked they followed up um they did a couple of follow-ups to look at prostate cancer incidents okay so the first study was about a 5 and a half year followup and this was published in like 2009 and what it found was there's no effect taking vitamin E had no effect on cancer incidents taking selenium had no effect but what they what you can see if you look at the data is they measured their Alpha and Gamma levels at Baseline and then at 5 and a half years what happened was those men taking 400 IUS depleted their gamma to offall by like 45% at the end of the followup which is like crazy that's not good um and then the second followup what it found is It's s and a half years later they found that oh my goodness the men taking you know 400 I of Al Alpha tofol had a 177% increase risk of pro prostate cancer and then they went on to say oh myness you know 400 IUS of vitamin E a day can cause prostate cancer however the men taking the selenium with the vitamin E didn't get it so the men taking that Alpha Tofer all by itself but took ones that took with the selenium with it didn't get it so the selenium protected and they didn't know why so another study then recently came out from the same this is all the same big cohort of people found that only the men that were severely deficient in selenium to start the trial that took the alpha to cerol were the ones that had the increased cancer incidence so I started thinking about this well why is that selenium also is important is a like I said it's
important for pro like 25 or so proteins one of them is important for preventing nitration reactive nitration products so I was like wow well this makes sense you're taking high levels of alpha tofol depleting your gamma levels which is important to get rid of nitration damage right which damages DNA causes cancer things like that and yet you can give someone the selenium or if if they're not deficient in the selenium that doesn't happen and SEL one of these selenium proteins also does that so the bottom line is does taking you know normal levels of alpha tofol like 22 or 30 IUS a day deplete your gamma levels no is it is it good for you like is it going to prevent your you know lipid membranes from oxidizing your DNA from getting oxidized yes uh you know is it going to give you cancer no it's actually the opposite prevents cancer is taking high high levels of of Alpha tofol dangerous well it can be yes because it depletes your gamma so you know taking high levels of alpha tofol is not a is not a good thing because it can deplete your gamma but that's only if you're also selenium deficient it's very very complicated it is not simple and it's not as simple as taking vitamin E is going to give you cancer no there's a whole host of complex mechanisms that are at play here and and the reality is you know if you want to 60% of the population doesn't have enough Alpha toofer all okay 60% so if you if you you you know want to supplement with it just don't be dumb take a take a lower level of it and supplement with the mix you can buy mixed tof Ralls together so they get the alpha the gamma the beta what is a good source of that um so avocados pecans walnuts plant plant sources I like to get my I have almonds also so so I ALS I get my my vitamin E mostly from from plant horses and also I use almond milk unsweetened almond milk in my smoothies like I said I make a really big smoothie every morning which has all these different micronutrients you know unsweeten is the key really I have a friend who said oh the Almond milk's amazing I'm not drinking milk anymore it tastes so good I go okay okay what is it what kind of flavor is it and he goes vanilla I go look at the [ __ ] label please right I go what does it say as far as grams of sugar it's 19 g of sugar per serving yeah you have to get the
unsweetened you have to get the unsweetened but it has it has a lot of magnesium in it and a lot of the uh the mixed vitamin E so it's it's a good source so vitamin E supplementation in your opinion you should probably just get it from diet so to to make sure that your levels are a normal healthy levels and then it's the balance of the different types of vitamin A yeah I I prefer getting it from diet you there are mixed to Cals that you can buy um that are low it's not like a 10 times the RDA and they're mixed so you're getting the Gam with the alpha so you know of a good source for that um I think there's Swanson brand may have a good one uh is that what you mean by a yeah and then you know that I think that might be a one one I can't recall off the top of my head but they are pretty reliable in general um you know so in a sense he oversimplified things but there is a danger of taking too many vitamins when you're taking vitamins like a vitamin E that could potentially if you're taking one form of it that could potentially deplete your your absorption of the other form exactly if you're taking a really really high dose of vitamin the alpha toop forol vitamin E uh there could be a potential danger in it depleting the gamma form and how would anyone know whether they're taking alpha or gamma they just have a vitamin E if you have a vitamin E container and you look on the back of it it'll say it'll say like Alpha tofol it'll say the sort like it says alpha or gamma most supplemental forms are Alpha and and that's because that's the predominant species found in tissues and plasma so people you know we thought it was like the the most important but we found that gamma is also really important um and but you can buy mixed took off Ralls you know you can buy mixed took off Ralls okay so that is just one thing that he brought up that was incorrect well that yeah so that was one he made he said the data is clear and consistent and for one that's anything but clear I mean there's lots of complex things going on and he said that it you know it's clear and consistent that supplemental antioxidants cause cancer well there's also other studies showing that you know these uh PE Pro in in the case of prostate cancer if you look at their blood levels of Alpha toopal and Gamma
those with the highest levels of Alpha and Gamma have the least you know prostate cancer incident so there's inconsistencies in terms of what exactly is going on and we're still really understanding all the me trying to understand all the mechanisms that play uh but he also he also made the over generalization that taking supplemental antioxidants is bad because you need prooxidants to kill cancer cells and that was like the second part of his why supplemental antioxidants are bad and you know this is another example of context so you know if you if you don't have enough of the Alpha Gamma to call for alls then you're going to have increased DNA damage you're going to have you know things that cause mutations and what happen you know happens is you're going to you know accumulate that over time and that's going to lead to cancer so not having enough of this vitamin E is not good like I said 60% of the population doesn't have enough um but the flip side is is that if you already have cancer then taking supplemental vitamin E uh what happens is because it prevents that oxidation then you uh there's mechanisms in your body that induce cell death um when you have oxidation when you have this damage to your DNA tumor suppressor genes get activated and make kill the cell so what they've shown is that in mice if you take mice that already if you give them cancer and you give them supplemental vitamin E you can attenuate that whole pathway that that activates the cell the death of these cancer cells uh but that's not the case if you take a mouse that doesn't have cancer and you give them vitamin E it actually prevents the DNA damage so this is a case where you're looking at Contex so someone that doesn't have you know that is not doesn't have cancer on their body you want to make sure they're not causing DNA damage which is is happening you know every second by making sure they have enough of these antioxidants but on the flip side of that you know if you already have cancer taking a bunch of supplemental you know vitamin E is not a good thing because you can attenuate that pathway that is important to kill cancer cells so it's another thing where it's like context is so important you need to differentiate between people that are normal healthy and people that
are trying to prevent themselves from getting cancer by preventing these things that cause cancer which vitamin E can help prevent versus talking about someone that already has cancer and so it's just incredibly irresponsible to make a simplified version of these incredibly complex processes that are going on in my opinion it's it's it's a big big overgeneralization and uh it's probably you know there because diving deep into this stuff is it takes time and it's complex and you need to understand how some of these things are interacting and working you know so it's much easier to be like oh you read you read the study the conclusion and oh yep that's it that's the thing that people love too they love when someone can break it down in a clear sentence antioxidants can cause cancer well let me get on Twitter and let everybody know that they're being an idiot right I mean people love doing that they love saying things like that that like nice clear concise easy to digest you know uh L High alkaline diet kills cancer oh I didn't even know I'm just going to [ __ ] I don't think there was any possible way I could boil that down into into like one sentence didn't seem like you could biology is very complex and trying to oversimplify it isn't necessarily uh mean doesn't necessarily mean you have a good understanding of the complexities this is certainly going to be a podcast that requires a notepad yeah you're going to have to do a lot of Googling yeah you know the the whole Alpha to caall and Gamma to caall it's it's something I think is important for people to to understand um you know it is Alpha toofer is the major supplemental form and the last study I show saw said something about like 11% of the population takes high levels of alpha tofall so you know you have a certain percent of the population that's going overboard and they probably don't know about the effects that that's going on you know the the depletion of their gamma and how that can be bad so I think it is important for those people to realize that but on the flip side you know someone like offet his solution to that is he wants to have highd does vitamins FDA regulated so that people like him who have an MD can prescribe them and so that's his solution to you
know high do vitamins and yeah it's if you think about it first of all you know who's going to Define what a high dose is is it the RDA because if you look at something like vitamin D you know but right now the the RDA for vitamin D is like 600 IUS a day and 70% of the population doesn't have enough vitamin D and taking 600 IUS a day if you're you know deficient isn't going to get you to an adequate level so that's not a good level what is a good level of vitamin D if if 600 is not uh an accurate level what's a what's an accurate level so you know in a couple of studies that I've read where people that were deficient in vitamin D uh took 4,000 IUS a day for a year that was enough to get them up to 30 nanograms per milliliter which it took a year it took a year holy [ __ ] and why does it take so long they well they did they measured it after a year so it it's possible if they had done some time points maybe in between uh that it it could have raised their levels you know higher than was it a slow absorption into the body or something like why would it take so long to to get the levels I'm not saying it's going to take a year it's just the way the study was designed I see they measured it a year later so uh it's you know it's possible that didn't didn't take a year but study was that they looked at it a year later after taking a year of uh 4,000 iuse a day but that was enough um I think generally speaking you know people that are supplementing between 2,000 and 4,000 IUS um generally tend to have adequate levels if they're not severely severely deficient to start with if you're severely severely deficient it can take longer to to get up to an adequate status what are the other things that offet said that you didn't think were uh were accurate or were prob atic yeah so he also said that the data is clear and consistent that supplemental vitamins don't do anything there's no positive benefit from them that's what he said no positive benefit and like I said to his credit I haven't read his book so maybe he goes into some specifics that I'm not aware of however to say that supplemental vitamins have no benefit is like really you know I mean they've done they've even done randomized control trials showing that omega-3 fatty acid supplementation supplementation lowers all cause
mortality so you know supplementing and he actually refers to omega-3 fatty acids as an antioxidant at least in that podcast he did so you know that that's one thing Vitamin D supplements people that are that have supplemented with vitamin D um two 1500 I use a day um I don't remember how long they did that for but they had a 17 it was many years there there was a 17% decrease in cancer uh cancer risk and there was a 30% decrease in cancer mortality and like a 40% decrease in in can cancers of the digestive system including colon cancer so that's one for vitamin D let's see what's another one there was another study where they looked at U multivit women that took multivitamin and uh but this was not a controlled trial This was um that they did questionnaire and found out like how many how frequently women took multivitamins and how how many times a day or how how many days a week they took them and what they found is that uh the ones that took vitamins on a daily basis had the the longest tares they measure T length so that's another one uh magnesium so we're talking about you know taking supplemental vitamins helps you fill some of those nutritional gaps that you're not getting from your diet and and the reality is is that we're not getting a lot of those vitamins and minerals from our diet we talked about this a little is it possible to eat a completely healthy diet and get everything you need or do you need the supplement I mean is it possible that's a good question I don't know I mean like things like vitamin D what would you have to I mean I know it's in milk you have well yeah for vitamin D you'd have to really be living in a place that was exposed to the UVB during winter and summer and you'd have to be out in the sun for 15 minutes you know cuz getting it from fish well maybe fish has a good good bit of it but but you'd have to eat fish every day and also to get the Omega-3s you'd have to eat fish like every day the omega-3 fatty acids are another big one and you'd have to eat quite a bit of fish right and certain fish like salmon salmon like fatty fish right exactly you'd have to eat like fatty fish so I think it would be really difficult like I personally I try I agree with with offit and uh that goofball Dunning in some instances where
you know you you should try to get all your your micro nutrients much as you can from your diet I agree you know and you know case in point my I do my smoothie I you know I I definitely try to eat my greens and healthy healthy meats and fish I really like fish but I do supplement you know I take omega-3 fatty acids I take vitamin D I take a multivitamin which has my you know selenium and some of my Trace elements my iDine and uh what else do I take uh I also take a b complex even though most people aren't they they don't have low level of of the B vitamins due to like fortification and stuff now uh I actually take a b complex because um it's really kind of interesting but we we our our lab has shown that well it's partly shown this that as we age I I I talked about how your lipid membranes get more rigid and uh a lot of so this is includes your mitochondrial membranes they get more stiff and over time what happens is uh metabolites and stuff can't get transported as easy and also what happens is these proteins they're they bind co-actors like B vitamins are really important for a lot of proteins in the mitochondria that are necessary for metabolism to generate ATP and these proteins require B vitamins and a lot of them are embedded in the membrane so when the membrane gets stiff the protein binding constant changes to that B vitamin and it's been shown that you can overcome that meaning you actually can overcome that uh it messing up that binding constant because it screws up the structure of the protein by increasing the level of B vitamins so what level do you do you recommend like what uh what's what's the USD RDA and what do you think should it be for B vitamins you know I don't there's no telling what it should be there there's just no empirical data to show uh how much more you would need to overcome that I have a b complex and I just can't recall off the top of my head what all the because there's so many of the of the B vitamins do you know what the name of your B complex is that you take right now company right now I I have one from Vos but I've been switching over to Swanson brand because I spell that Swanson like like s SW NS o n they're they're pretty reliable they've been around for a really long time um they
they generally have some some reliable supplements for omega-3 I like Nordic Naturals um they're really good and Nordic Naturals um what is uh what that's a fish based fish oil so there's some uh oils here's here's the um the Swanson it has uh 25 uh 25 milligrams of Rial flaven which is 1,471 per of the US RDA thami thamin thamin thamin thamin which is B1 it has 25 milligrams which is 1,667 of the usrda vitamin C it has in it as well in the B complex it has vitamin C which is interesting that's interesting 833 per of the US RDA and the other big one um vitamin B6 is 1,250 and vitamin B12 2, 83% of us RDA that's interesting I've always found that interesting when you look at some vitamins you look at multivitamins and you know you know what the RDA is and you see their percentage is [ __ ] off the charts they have 2,000% of the US RDA of B12 yeah you know they're just saying the usrda is a knucklehead I mean that's what they're saying in their company say look [ __ ] them in the case of vitam uh the B vitamins you know like I said most people um aren't aren't deficient in them and they haven't really shown any toxicity taking too much of of these B vitamins and they are water soluble so you end up do peeing you peeing them all out I personally uh I'm taking them just because I've seen you know some of this data where it shows that some of these proteins that are when your membr your lipid Bayer is kind of more rigid and gets screwed up you know over time and also when your you know oxidation does that are eating rancid fat things like that um changes some of the structure of those membrane proteins that require B vitamins and like I said I don't know how much more you need there it'd be cool to do a study to figure that out but it's not a dangerous one because they're water soluble it's not it h I haven't seen any data that shows it's it's a dangerous one for one because they are water soluble and you peed them out what are the fat soluble ones that we should be careful about overdosing the alpha tofol is one which is e right right like I said the whole interplay between the gamma and Alpha you know know is a so gamma tofol Alpha tofol all all the e those are fat soluble right e um also so
those you should be careful vitamin D you can you know you can take too much you know if you take the toxicity levels that that I've seen have been shown at like 10,000 iuse a day for some time um that anything over that and actually I think it even is quite higher than that but that's the limit of toxicity what about Omega-3s and Omega-3s in um plant-based form versus in fish form great question so if you look at the uh so Omega there's three there's EPA there's DHA and ala so the major plant form like flax seed oil Flex seed um walnuts for example have ala okay and that's they don't have EPA or DHA now you can convert a very small percentage of Al ala into the EPA but it's like 5% of it it's very inefficient conversion um and women may be able to do a little bit better of a conversion I can't recall off the top of my head what their number was but the point is is that um if your only source of Omega-3 is flax or you know walnuts you're not getting your DHA any you hear that vegans yeah that's re I the vegans re if you're a vegan really I I just microalgae oil I mean the phytoplankton or essentially are what making these Omega-3s the fish eat the phytoplankton it gets concentrated in fat microalgae oil I recommend for people that are vegetarian vegan micro algae oil and but when you're eating micro algae oil what what what totally constitutes vegan is there any sort of animal protein in microalgae oil guess you're you know well they're phytoplankton so if you're vegan based off of philosophy where you don't want to eat like any type of creature yeah phytoplankton is kind of a creature it is it's kind of a it's kind of a creature but so that I guess that could be a problem but if you're doing if you're a vegetarian or vegan for you know Health purposes and there's not like a philosophical component or you know you have a problem with eating these phytoplankton then well I mean vegans shouldn't they avoid I mean there's certain probiotics that are I mean that's a creature too true bacteria living life fors yeah that's a good point I don't know move they move I mean they're they're active they are active they are absolutely just because you can't see them I mean you're you're basically eating little tiny turtles or
something you know whatever the little moving thing right you know I I don't know what the philosop because I don't have a lot of vegan friends um to really know for cut those people out of your life it's very important I don't have anything against them I just I don't either but I like [ __ ] with them so but the Omega that DHA and EPA are really important they're really really important and so you asked can you take too much I mean for one you know EPA is a very it's got a very uh potent anti-inflammatory effect which is you know important for a variety of different mechanisms you know inflammation chronic inflammation over time can lead to a lot of age related diseases um and DHA as we I think even discussed last time it's a really important component of your cell membranes um particularly in the brain like 40% of it so I take a lot of I take a lot I take a lot too how much do you take a day so well it depends so you have to look okay you got your fish oil container and on the front it says like 1,000 milligrams or mine says 2,120 or something and then you turn around the back and you look look at the break the breakdown okay how much EPA how much DPA uh DHA and then there's other fish oils mixed so on my container it says like or 2,100 and something and I turn it on the back it's got 800 milligrams of EPA and 600 milligrams of DHA so and then all the rest is just fish fish oil stuff so I actually calculate how much I take based on those components the EPA and DHA because that's important that's what's important to me so I take about six pills of those a day and a serving size I guess a serving size is two so yeah I take a little bit more than that I take 10 10 pills yeah yeah okay and you're that's pretty cool I've done that I mean I've done that in the past it has a big impact on joint health yeah it has a big impact for uh for Grapplers for Jiu-Jitsu people you're always getting sore knees and sore elbows it's a big issue and even sore backs and it has a a huge impact on that the anti-inflammatory reaction absolutely absolutely what is the anti-inflammatory what is the actual mechanism the anti-inflammatory mechanism involved in fish oil so the the EPA is the major part so you actually buy EPA like just you know
there's there's companies that'll sell if you're really just looking at the anti-inflammatory part of the fish oil you can buy EPA it's a little more expensive but what it does is it inhibits that whole arachadonic acid pathway which produces prostaglandins so it's like it's like Upstream where it's it's inhibiting the production of aroic acid and then prostaglandins which activate Cox and like all you know you got this whole Cascade of inflammation going on it plays a major role in that there's probably other mechanisms that I haven't even read about you know other things going on as well uh that I I'm not even sure you know feedback mechanisms stuff like that but that's the major way that EPA does and they've even shown that like taking two grams of EPA a day can lower can like reduce your C reactive protein levels oh gosh I don't remember the exact amount but how much it was but it was pretty significant where it's like it really you can measure it lowers inflammation system like systemic inflammation how many thousand milligrams are in a gram you just said it one th000 milligrams are in one gr so 2,000 milligrams is two grams yeah why don't they just call it a gram why they have to call it milligram yeah I I usually call get to a thousand yeah it's like it's much easier yeah why you confusing me maybe because people aren't aware of the whole metric system and stuff so if they see two grams you're like oh well that's nothing that's just two well we people get confused because we go ounces all the time with so many different things that is confusing why I don't understand why we use the metric system in some cases in some cases we don't at all right like leaders oh it's a leader well how many courts is in there oh [ __ ] I don't know why is there a court in a leader what do you doing to me here well in the lab we do everything milliliter liter I mean so gallons when you go to the gas station I don't even yeah I don't even that I always have to Google how many inches well try [ __ ] I'm 90 CM what the [ __ ] is 90 how tall is that I don't even know you know what I mean if someone like tried to guess someone's height in centimeters like so is your fish oil that you take is it um both EPA and DHA that's a good question I take uh this Carlson's Carlson Carson I've taken
that before do you take the lemon flavored one in the bottle or do you take them in pills I take both I bring the pills with me when I go on the road I take the lemon in the bottle at home ah okay yeah there there is something to be aware of with the the omega-3 fatty acids and that's because they're polyunsaturated fatty acids they're very prone to oxidation so keeping them at 4° well keeping them in the fridge sorry um lowers that that oxidation process and also just smelling it uh you know take take a sniff of it and make sure it's not rancid smelling when you're taking when you're taking it because that's the one thing um with the omega-3 fatty acids I mean like I said I take a lot of omega-3 fatty acids and I think they're really important but I think it's important to be aware that they can go ranted and and if they go ranted consuming them can be not as good yeah and when you leave them in the refrigerator how long are they good for when you crack open that bottle I've always given it a twoe window if I don't drink it in two weeks I throw it out is that I don't use the bottle uh anymore but the bottle is more Pro is more open to be uh to oxygen so that is one thing to be aware of with with the bottle and that was just go with the pills I do that was something that I think that was part of the reason why I switched to it that and I think I got really sick of that lemon yeah flavor it gets kind of f gets kind of much yeah so it's easier to just not taste anything and you swallow the pills but then you're dealing with the gelatin as well it's just gelatin is not good B I haven't convinced myself that it's doing much harm but who knows maybe I haven't dug deep enough what about krill oil how do you feel about krill oil um I haven't really done much much reading on the Krill is that that has vitamin A as well or that's Cod I'm thinking I'm I'm conflating cod oil cod liver oil was the one that they always gave us when we were kids and everybody was like get that away from me I don't know if I've ever tried it like the taste I think I've had a pill and I couldn't really tell you know I actually think I have kill oil here hold on a second let me hold P this out yeah but you know taking taking the uh omega-3 and just popping in it open every once in a while and smelling it is
a a good idea I recommend doing that because you can smell what rancid fat smells like so that's what I like to do you know every once in a while I'll just grab my omega-3 pill out of the the fridge and take some scissors cut it open and smell it and uh if it doesn't smell rancid it's still good yeah I've got some cill oil here tell about that is um well krill oil I don't know what what's supposed to be the benefit of krill oil over fish oil it doesn't have a lot of DHA or EPA in it no I mean it says 75 milligrams of DHA and 130 milligrams of of EPA and that's two Soft gel servings so you think that fish oil is probably a better choice than C oil well I don't know if there's there's also one gram AC krill oil so it says one gram AC krill oil maybe there's something in there I'm not aware of because I really I I just haven't done a lot of research on but I'm looking at the DHA and EPA specifically if you're taking this to get DHA and EPA I would say this is not a very high amount so you think that if there is something good about krill oil you should probably what is those why is there those things krill oil radically better than fish oil hm blood sugar regulator I don't know anything about it unfortunately maybe there's some other reasons maybe there's something else yeah like I said I'm I'm completely ignorant on that say here on this website krill oil actually influences your metabolism and uh genes to improve the reference study found that although both fish oil and krill oil contain Omega-3s they differ greatly in how they affect the genes controlling your metabolism krill oil enhances glucose metabolism in your liver whereas fish oil do does not krill oil promotes lipid metabolism whereas fish oil does not krill oil helps regulate the mitochondrial respiratory chain whereas fish oil does not so DHA does do those things so when they're saying fish oil so what are they talking they're talking [ __ ] well I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm following I'm not either so because DHA does regulate Li lipid metabolism um and also so list so DHA and EPA in addition to to um the the anti-inflammatory effects of EPA and in addition to the the lipid lipid membrane part of the DHA these fatty acid molecules are signaling molecules that
actually bind to different uh DNA regions in your Gene and activate them much like vitamin D does and DHA and EPA do this so DHA can can activate genes so you know if they're talking about and and it's been shown to activate mitochondrial metabolism genes so when they say say krill oil does and ficial does not they're just it doesn't make any sense to me you have to be specific what is it you're talk are you talking about DHA because they're in you know what else is there yeah this's an article from marola is that a good website you know marola is uh hit or miss I think he does have a lot of good every once in a while there's something you know it it's both I I haven't spent a lot of time reading his stuff um but I do think he does he does have some good information but so it doesn't sound like krill oil is bad but it does seem like fish oil is probably more beneficial or Prov well there's other things in here too what's in it yeah so the point is you have to be specific if you're saying just krill oil well you're talking about other things in the krill oil because if we're talking about Gene activation DPA and D DHA is doing that DHA is activating genes you know it's that's that's what it's doing in addition to what it's doing for your lipid this is so confusing after reading what you said because it's saying some Studies have shown that krill oil may be 48 times more potent than fish oil means you will need far less of it than fish oil is confirmed by a 2011 study for 48 times more potent in what sense though yeah what are we talking about in the krill oil I just don't understand I don't either that's the problem and people have mortgages they have jobs they have children they have dogs to feed they have a plant to water they don't have [ __ ] time to get in all this stuff have to you know it's I feel bad for people I mean it's hard enough for me you're a person what are you talking about I mean no it's cuz it's craziness it's craziness and the reality is understanding mechanism like when I'm saying mechanism I'm talking about DHA can activate you know promoters and certain genes to to increase the expression of mitochondrial metabolism genes that's been shown and uh so when you say cre oil is better can do that and fish oil can't that makes no sense
to me you need to tell me what specifically is in the kill oil that's not in fish oil because you know DHA and EPA are in fish oil right are we talking about a concentration dependent thing I mean is there more DHA and EPA in krill oil I I don't know actually yeah I don't yeah I don't I think this is something that's going to have to be really studied in in length and uh I I would love to see you uh dive into all these claims there's quite a few claims online about the benefits of krill oil over fish oil but it doesn't one of the things saying Co oil contains acet tax oh boy try this one a as t a x a n t h i n aax say it again a s t a x n t h i n yeah that's that's that's aable not familiar with it a unique Marine sourced flavonoid that creates a special bond with the EPA and DHA which allows direct metabolism of the antioxidants making them more bioavailable does that make sense no does that sound like Malarkey possibly it doesn't make sense yeah God that it really is the issue isn't it there just so much to try to sift through find out how to separate the wheat from the shaft as as it were it's you know with with the DHA and EPA the really important thing in my opinion is is getting it getting enough of it like getting you know taking taking a good bit of of DHA and EPA because most people aren't getting any of it and all this other stuff um I'm just not sure how significant it is MHM maybe it does increase bioavailability of a little bit I don't I don't know if it really makes a big difference uh so so for the folks that are taking the or they're getting their Omega-3s just completely from a plant Source what what can they do if anything to try to I really think the microalgae oil is the best I mean I would I would recommend taking the fish oil but I guess they won't do that some cases vegetarians won't do that um so the micro algae oil is is the next best thing in my opinion um and I like I said I don't really know much about about the krill oil but I do know that these DHA DHA is very important as is EPA so for a variety of different re reasons well I'm going to send you uh some of these uh studies on on the krill oil to see if
you unless you get bored reading it you can't do it it's there's just it seems like there's just such a boy it's such a mess it's such a there's so many different supplements then just going into all the contradictory arguments the back and forth about all these different ones it can be incredibly taxing what's the I mean your website is a great resource of this um if if people want to go to found my fitness and try to figure out what what you've already sort of described you've already explained but how does a person start I think a really good uh resource that I like is the lonus Pauling Institute so if you go to the lonus Pauling Institute they are pretty good about writing a very it's a scientific research institute that's associated with Oregon uh Health University or Oregan State Health University something like that but um they they they uh do a very balanced review on a variety of different supplemental vitamins and vitamins and minerals and essential fatty acids and uh that that they give you both sides and now if they go into the Krill they sometimes they'll go into things like that but generally speaking I really like Alliance Pauling Institute it's it's a good it's a good resource if are there places where someone can go where they can you know like say like you're just you're not sure what you need like we were talking about like various levels of vitamins and getting them tested is there like a standard place where you could go where you could you like someone who lives in the middle of nowhere can find a place and get their blood tested I think one of the companies that I am familiar with um is Wellness FX and I I have no association with them other than I did a couple of guest blog posts for them where I for free wrote about vitamin D and magnesium and uh they they I think they're pretty much in almost every state now where you can go on to their website and they have a variety of different assays they'll do well they measure different vitamins and minerals and they omega-3 fatty acids they'll measure different things C reactive protein um and that you can go to any uh enter your address and go to like a lab cor around nearest by or whatever and get your blood drawn and then they'll give you the data within a
couple of days it'll help you interpret it they have a variety of different positions and nutritional um people that can help you interpret what your blood results mean so um like I used it myself we also got a test for my mother-in-law to use and she lives in Mississippi so you know and it's it's pretty much I think it's pretty much everywhere now so I really like them and obviously you can go to your physician your healthare your primary healthcare provider but they might may not measure everything that you want like Omega 3 and they also might give you some of that well you need to do is eat a balanced diet right how many times have I heard that from a physician who looked like [ __ ] you know like overweight position I mean sloppy loose skin all around his face like dude you're melting tell tell me what to do yeah yeah so it but the the wellness effects is pretty cool you know I really like them but the nutrition thing I think it's making its way into medicine and that's part of the reason why people like offet who is an MD you know these people they've been trained um very differently they haven't been trained in in understanding preventative medicine understanding how these complex micronutrients are interacting with different you know proteins in our body and how that's important to prevent different diseases you know they they have so they're not they're not thinking about it from the same frame of mind you know as um as people like me that are PhD researchers are nutritionist and there's a variety of other uh I guess naturopathic doctors maybe have more there's a whole you know variety of different uh naturopathic gets lumped into homeopathic sometimes accidentally yeah completely different i' I've been guilty of it myself yeah I think I have as well I I confuse them in a way where just anything homeopathic I think of as horseshit it's isn't homeopathic like that crazy thing where they like dilute things to like crazy amounts where you can't even there's like no active compound if you if you Google it or look at the Wikipedia of what is the off ter hor uh sorry homeopathic if they they have their own measuring system too I think it's like they'll take a comp pound and they'll dilute it like a millionfold and it's like to the point where there's like no biological
activity and they give it to people I'm pretty sure that's that's Homeopathy I didn't realize that until recently yeah repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water followed by forceful striking on an elastic body what dilution usually contains uh continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain is that so okay let me tell the story so I recently had my wisdom teeth removed and my oral surgeon gave me this um Cas of pills that was arnica it's like yeah nonsense well I thought well no it was homeopathic which really makes sick nonsense there is some antimicrobial activity and things like that in arnica the real arnica but the homeopathic arica is like sugar it's water yeah it's water literally like but I didn't know is homeopathic at first I just thought oh yeah it's just and it wasn't until like my husband uh looked at it and he's like do you realize this is homeopathic I was like what's that I didn't really even I knew homeopathic was kind of crazy and I we looked it up and it was like mind-blowing I couldn't believe that they were giving I don't even think he knows I think he probably made the same mistake I did where I just thought it was just arica this is for anybody defending Homeopathy Homeopathy this is on Wikipedia lacks this is all with references lacks biological plausibility and the axioms of Homeopathy have been sh have have been refuted for some time the postulated mechanisms of action of homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and not physically possible although some you go CL clinical trials produce positive results systematic reviews reveal that this is because of chance flawed research methods and Reporting bias which is pretty common so there you have it Homeopathy really yeah I I mean anytime someone says Homeopathy they usually are wearing crystals and they know someone who's a Channeler right right so uh know getting back to my wisdom teeth though it's a kind of a cool topic um I had to get them removed because they were like impacted and causing problems and pain and such so um I did some research I was like God if I have to get my teeth removed there got to be some kind of benefit from it and I found that that our wisdom teeth have
something called Dental pulp stem cells in them and these Dental pulp stem cells so this stem cell research is like a whole I'm really excited about the the stem cell research field and where we're going with that but anyways our our wisdom teeth have dental pulp stem cells in them that can actually form um other tissues in our body like bone cartilage and they even showed recently theyve they've taken Dental pulp stem cells from people with impacted wisdom teeth taken them out and Transplant them into mice that had damaged motor neurons and it was able to differentiate into damaged M like into neurons neural type cells and help replace that so I went and um looked online to see if anyone was banking them because they do Cord Blood banking where you can Bank your cord blood and indeed there was a company that uh there a couple of companies they're both associated with cord blood banks as well but they're they Bank the dental pulp stem cells that you can when you have your teeth removed they send you a kit with like buffered saline solution your oil surgeon will stick the teeth in them and then they ship it off back to the company and they preserve it in liquid nitrogen um they kind of do very minimal processing they don't actually remove the stem cells they keep it in the tissue the dental pulp tissue and they freeze it um liquid nitrogen so that you can you know later use it if you need it uh so it's actually really cool because you can you know use this if you have damaged cartilage bone possibly Parkinson's disease where you need to replace damaged motor neurons um so that I thought that was pretty pretty cool it's like a benefit for cuz getting your wisdom teeth removed is not fun at all yeah that is fascinating though primary teeth from children also so in the children's teeth you know they're losing their primary teeth and you just throw the teeth away um they are really have a really rich source of dental pulp stem cells wow so you can they you know your child loses their tooth and you can Bank it uh where you you freeze it it's it's like $625 for the the whole processing and then to store it it's like $125 a year I personally think it's a great investment if you uh have kids and they you know are losing their teeth or also if you're uh if you have your wisdom
teeth and you have to get them removed yeah why not my daughter's about to lose her F tooth so that's perfect yeah I'll the company that I went went with um I can I can give it to you I I actually talked to their cell biologist I was on the phone because I read through all the procedures in these scientific papers to see exactly how you process it in the optimal way and the best way to have the best viability after you th them and so I was like getting on the phone I'm like okay do you do this do you do this and so I went with this company because I spoke with uh one of their Cale biologists and they had done the things that I thought were the best um so anyways the whole stem cell field is cool yeah it's it's you know what's really cool is that they can take fiberblast cells from your skin like skin cells that we SLO off like every day and they can add four different transcription factors like four different genes that they can add by like a viral um and add virus to them and they can reprogram them to become these plur poent stem cells in your body meaning they can form any type of cell in your body so you can take a skin cell and you can make it you know into a brain cell a liver cell heart cell I mean this has huge huge implications for regenerative medicine but I think also just for extending lifespan what did you think about this latest study where they took mice and did you read about this where they took young the the blood of young mice and they reintroduced it to Old mice yeah so um that was that a recent study or was that yeah um it was it was the recent findings uh because I've seen other studies that were not super recent but what they did was they took like bone marrow cells they did a bone marrow transplant and took which obviously bone marrow forms their blood cells from Young mice and transplanted them to Old mice and they ex and the mouse the mice like lived longer yeah this is this is recent it's um they it's from March 6 or May 6th rather they they actually took an injection of young blood so they took the blood of excuse me they took the blood of uh young mice they injected it into Old mice and they had uh tremendous benefits including regenerating uh different uh different cells brain cells tissue cells oh really brain cells as well yeah I mean it makes
sense that You' regenerate different blood populations because you have you know stem cells young stem cells in the blood and stuff that are it improved the uh performance of elderly mice in memory and learning tasks wow that's pretty cool crazy structural molecular me that paper yeah absolutely yeah that's awesome I mean this is this is this is stuff I'm really excited about now is this you know the stem cell research and reprogramming you know where the epigenetics is a really cool part where you can reprogram your cells uh to to basically be younger um you know they're they're finding now that that so epigenetics I think we talked about this a bit last time refers to changes in gene expression and you know things like methyl groups and acidulation groups will set on on top of your DNA and turn them on turn genes on and off but now what they're finding is they're trying to look at patterns of methylation like in your DNA so they they've already solved the Human Genome Project where they they know genes and now they're trying to look at the the methylome the human methylome and they've been able to over the past you know few years they've been able to identify that there's patterns of methylation in your genes that happen with age and they've even been able to like systematically identify they've so they've taken blood from people various ages like from 19 to 101 and they've been able to identify the age of the person the chronological age of the person based on their methylation patterns like with 96% accuracy and they've been able to do this like within four years I think they'll some be four years off you know plus or minus four years so they can take someone's blood cells look at their methylation pattern and say you're 50 years old and the person will be you know 50 between 50 and 54 46 and 50 you know so I think that's pretty freaking amazing that they're so and the thing that's really cool this is I'm I'm on this kick this epigenetics kick where they've been able to now also look at uh the cancer cells like in a person they'll take a tissue a tumor sample and then a tissue from the same person another you know non-tumor tissue and they'll look at the methylation pattern they'll see that the
cancer or the tumor tissue ages by like 40% based on the methyl pattern wow and yeah so it's like the cancer cell is aging rapidly so what's really interesting is now they're looking at what genes these are genes these methylation penants are happening around and they're finding it like DNA repair mitochondrial metabolism antioxidant genes like everything that we've been talking about in this whole podcast things that you know affect DNA damage and Metabolism all these things methylation patterns are happening clustered around these around these genes um and the cool thing about it to me is that if we're figuring this out then we can figure out how to reprogram our cells to be young and extend lifespan and I really think that we're getting close to doing this so I mean if you think about I'll give you an example like stem cells stem cells also have methylation patterns that that are very distinct to stem cells and there's certain genes that are when when a gene is methylated it's not being expressed there are certain genes that are not expressed in stem cells for a reason because when they get expressed they uh cause the cell to stop dividing and you don't want your stem cell to stop dividing because stem cells are what's repopulating the the tissue okay and they found that like a certain Gene is methylated in young people so when we're young our stem cells have you know this Gene methylated but as we get older the gene the methylation goes away so there's enzymes that actually are called demethylases that take off the methyl groups and this Gene becomes active and then the stem cell like stops dividing it's like you lose you're basically losing your stem cell and then you know more stem cells you lose the worse off you are you can't replenish your damage tissue and all that but what they found was that the thing that activates that thing that takes off the methyl group is something called nfca B which is an inflammatory it's that that thing is activated by inflammation NFC B inflammation activates NFC B and then it activates this whole pathway of demethylases that take off methyl groups so what I'm thinking is that inflammation is a chronic signal it's it's a way that I've been able to link environment and and the way when I
say environment I just mean like damage constant accumulation of tissue damage the DNA damage I was talking about environment to epigenetics so it's like you have a chronic signal of inflammation it's activating these demethylases they're taking methyl groups off of DNA and now you're expressing genes that are usually not expressed when were young in stem cells that stops the St stem cell from dividing so it's like a really cool link between you know environment and and epigenetics that you know as it relates to aging which we know that environment regulates epigenetics so to me it's kind of cool cuz as we're figuring out these programs what that means is I think that we'll be able to reprogram our our cells to become young that's incredible how long do you think it's going to be before that happens I think that we're we're getting really close with I mean if you look at like I said with the stem cell um research that we're doing now where we can take a we can even take uh renal epithelial cells that we excrete in our urine and make it into a a plone stem cell we can make it become a a you know a cell in our liver um um so I think with you know the advances we're making with that uh in in combination with this learning the looking looking figuring out the human EP epigenome where we're looking at methylation patterns and figuring out what's happening with age um you know I think we're going to make huge strides in the next decade I mean hopefully if if research of funding doesn't go down you know it's been going down the drain but has it been yeah oh yeah I mean funding is hard it's really hard getting getting funding in science because but why is it with with something like anti-aging it would see like boy if there's something to be made where there's money to be made it's funding anti-aging research seems like God that's the way to go well there is the the N National Institute of Aging uh funds a lot of the the Aging research and there's also some private foundations that are funding it but uh the reality is is that you know these we're funding it with taxpayer dollars right I mean it's it's there's not a lot of of money for research in general period I mean you think that cancer one would be another right I mean the N the the NCI is funding a lot of cancer
research but the problem is that it's hard to get funding and the things that are funded here's here's what I see is the big problem the things that are funded by these big institutes are typically things that are uh already been proven they're not as creative uh you know you know there there things that people feel are already solid so it's like oh you already published on this yes we're going to fund you on that you know as opposed to someone that has this very creative idea it's very risky um it's like well I'm not going to you know there's all these other people that are trying to compete for this money giving funding for something like that is risky so they don't fund a lot of creative research which unfortunately is what makes leaps in science this this mice thing is so fascinating because they showed that after four weeks stem cells in both the areas of the muscle and the Brain got a boost of activity and were better able to produce neurons and muscle tissue and then they also discovered that injecting the old mice or rather the young mice with old blood was a huge setback was a huge setback uh when conjoined to an older Mouse so the you know bring the old blood into the new mouthe the creation of new cells in the young Mouse slowed and Old Blood seemed to cause premature aging yeah incredible it is incredible I mean it's but how long before people start [ __ ] doing something gross like taking a person stealing their blood introducing it to their own to stay young I mean it's really vampirism yeah uh I mean for sure oh wait now I remember that someone's read this I think I remember that study now I'm going to grab another water real quick yeah please there's one right there um well this study um it it was published on uh the in the Washington Post the article was published May 4 um and the study two of the studies published online the Journal of science came out uh let's see here yeah one of them was from Stanford the Stanford group well they apparently they've been working on this for quite a while but the results of the uh the blood results have been pretty shocking
to a lot of people I think a lot of it comes down to you know like I said there's these if you look at the epigenome the methylation patterns and these stem cells these young stem cells even young cells in general they're very different from old ones and that affects the way I mean if you're looking at epigenetics you're talking about regulating a whole host of genes like hundreds of different genes and so if these things are being differentially regulated when you're young versus old then you know taking someone's young blood and transplanting into the old you know P old uh transplante e would make sense because now you're you know you're you're basically taking all those uh patterns that we that we've been able to identify and gene expression things are now going back to Young so it's like now you're you're not expressing genes that are you know causing your stem cells to sesse you're not expressing you're expressing more things that are involved in DNA repair and things like that yeah so it's is incredible that what they were able to do they they actually had more uh endurance they navigated mazes faster ran longer on treadmills and they easily outperform performed their control peers awesome who were only given saline so it's like a definitive response right it's such a creepy one though I think I think but I think this is something that we can do with the reprogramming of our own like skin cells into like plur PLO and stem cells right and the yes yeah that's that's really fascinating and it's it's the same concept but you don't have to get someone's Young Blood you're doing it to yourself and haven't they been able to come up with artificial blood cells isn't that another thing that they've been working on that sounds familiar I don't I don't know artificial heart cells as well I think yeah you know I just I'm not I don't remember exactly the studies and the mechanisms it's just so much well although it is difficult to get funding there are so many different yeah artificial blood wow patient ready this is on uh from uh the-scientist.com and it's saying that uh wow this is incredible in the midst of uh news that engineered organs are being implanted into animals and people researchers announce the creation of artificial blood for transplant this is
a very recent too April uh 16th it's nuts we live in strange times when it comes to these things like every day or so it seems like some new study from somewhere in the world is popping up that shows this incredible breakthrough the young M study this study the artificial blood story study if they can engineer some sort of a super potent blood and introduce it into your body I it's similar to like what the cyclist did when they were blood doping they would take their own blood pull it out inject it back into their body so they had more blood or EPO which uh stimulated red blood cell production that that kind of stuff is just it's it's so trippy the idea of sort of hacking and retaking the the components of the human body I agree but I do think it's really cool I mean I know when I first when I first got into the biological sciences so I was a chemistry major in college I I did research using um these nematode worms seelagan wor worms uh that have like a 14 or 15-day lifespan and they have a lot of the same genes that we have but I could like inactivate one of their genes and literally double their lifespan so they went from living like 14 or 15 days to like 30 days and so this was actually it was you inactivate insulin growth signaling uh in insulin uh growth factor and what happens is it uh this this uh growth factor then uh usually when it's active it it uh keeps the fox this foxo Gene which is a transcription Factor outside of the nucleus and doesn't allow it to perform all the functions it usually performs which is involved in a bunch of stress resistance like hundreds and hundreds of genes and so when you get rid of that igf-1 signaling in the worms foxo gets activated and all those genes involved in stress resistance get activated and the worms Live Twice As Long wow so it's like literally a genetic program in these worms that's controlling the way they age so when I first I remembered that hit me it was kind of like holy crap like that's pretty cool like being able to reprogram the way you age it's just such an amazing time with all this stuff because it seems like we're around at just the right time to catch this just incredible percolating of all these new studies and all these new things that are being developed it's just just such a strange
time to like try to pay attention to all of it and watch it all happen it's so exciting it must be really exciting for you because this is like your field of of study oh no it's great I mean I think we're definitely going to live longer you know I how long do you think you're going to live my lifetime I don't know without you know reprogramming oh without you mean just Yellowstone erupting or asteroid impacts I don't know I'd like I'd like to be a centenarian that's it 100 good with 100 yeah you know but when when what if a 100 comes around and they've got [ __ ] locked down where you look like you look now at 100 and then I could go for 200 well I feel like I'm happier now than I was when I was younger I'm smarter I I understand stress better I understand all sorts of emotions I understand management management of my body of my hormones management of my feelings management of my energy levels stress relaxation techniques stretching yoga all that different stuff I feel like I'm just way happier and it's that that old expression youth is wasted on the young you know like I I I understand life better I'm better at it now I'm better at being me it was like it was an awkward thing when I was younger I'm way more relaxed and easy with it now I feel like at 200 I'd be a goddamn wizard I would I would have [ __ ] down to a science I I would have the amount of errors that I'd make as far as you know every everyday average things that you you [ __ ] up you would [ __ ] up almost nothing it would every day would be like You' could learn new things you could challenge yourself you constantly learning languages like I never understand the people that say like oh I get bored I wouldn't even want to live past a certain age like I don't know about I never get bored there's always new things to learn new things to study the new things to there's the world is so big there's so much to learn it would be awesome to just have time to sit around and learn how to play the piano learn how to speak a new language and I'm always sitting around reading about science um which I really enjoy doing but I agree I mean there's so much out there to learn and you you might get to a point if you're 200 years old you
might abandon science totally and just [ __ ] go down some totally different Road you might be a sculptor you might you know you know what I mean I mean you could live several lives I certainly hope that I'd still be active you know like I when I lived in San Diego I used to I was a surf I was a surfer and surf instructor and I used to you really you instructed people I used to teach at an all girl surf School in La Hoya La Hoya sh I love La Hoya I used to live two blocks from the beach so I'd walk to the beach before class fire right now you see all that stuff about San Diego no you haven't seen my family's there oh my God San Diego is experiencing crazy fires right now no I had no idea Huge tornadoes of fire 100 feet high I haven't gotten a phone call so that's a good idea I mean good sign well I mean the fire departments down there on top of it because they have to deal with this stuff every couple of years you know there was the big one a couple years ago um I was scheduled to go down and do a show and there was these big fires and it was so crazy I wound up uh doing the show but I said I had I donated all the money to the Red Cross I'm like I can't I mean there was so many people lost their houses I just felt like it would be so gross to go down there and just make money yeah I I remember um back in like I think it was like 2002 or something when we had a really big fire in Diego and I was actually out surfing I was in the water and it was really weird because there were all these pelicans and all these birds flocking to the water like you know I'm sitting out on my surfboard looking out on the horizon waiting for the wave and it's like the apocalypse like birds were just coming to the water right and it's like what is going on so I get out of the water and there's just ash falling like cuz my my car was I was in La Hoya Shores the time my car was in the parking lot and there was just ash like all over the cars and parking lot but it was like the feel that moment where I was sitting on my board and all the birds like came to the water like I had this almost like oh my God it's a nuclear warfare something that e you know that Eerie moment like you have you ever had one of those where you just get this Eerie feeling where it's like it's
the end of the this is it you know and uh anyways that fire burned a lot of really close to where my dad lives actually I've been evacuated twice out here really yeah yeah my neighborhood uh came really close to times um to uh giant fires I mean we we have fires that are so bad out here one time while we're doing it um and this was the time I got evacuated I was filming Fear Factor and I drove from Los Angeles to tone ranch toone ranch is about an hour and a half outside of LA and as I was driving near SEI Valley which is about 40 minutes from here SEI Valley uh is where the fire kicked in and then for for from there for the next 50 minutes of driving there was no fire well when I got to work we started filming we were doing the show and then um when we were done and we left the fire had reached us so the fire had reached you know an hour of driving so we're talking about you know somewhere around 60 plus miles and the entire right side of the road was like a Lord of the Rings movie it was like I was expecting a demon to ride a flaming horse over it was insane for an hour an hour of driving all you saw to the right side of you was Flames it was amazing the only thing that separated was the highway and Flames were jumping the highway and you know they they had tried to keep the fire as far away from the roads and far away from structures but it was so out of control that it traveled 50 miles plus in a few hours I mean in a place like you know this like La San Diego where there's a lot of dry you know brush and and like what kind of mechanisms do they have to I mean they obviously know this can be a serious problem do they is there any sort of like there's not much they can do I mean they try to stop it they they create fire brakes they drop repellant on it they drop this red stuff that's uh that that squashes the fire like in in certain areas but the the fire leaps the problem is these things cross highways the The Embers fly through the air they land on dry brush and poof they're Off to the Races we're running out of time um you wanted to promote something what do you got going on what's your iPhone app I I do I have a new iPhone app um it's found my fitness and it was just released like earli this week and it's basically you can get my podcast where I talk about my information and also I
have um a news section where I I give new new news stories and it's a community section if you ever used Reddit or Hacker News it's just based on that so it's like that yeah it's a trying to make an interactive Community um so if you download my podcast it would be really cool U right now it's new so it counts as twice to download beautiful and also foundy fitness.com is uh where you can follow me I've got a bunch of um gadgets on there you can click to download my newsletter follow me on Twitter I also have a patreon campaign where I'm I you know I'm giving I'm trying to do these podcasts and I have a couple of Milestones where I'm trying to um do one you know two two podcasts a month or four so I'm asking people to donate or not it's not really donate to to pay to Pledge 25 cents a month to um help me reach my Milestone so that I can help give you the context that you need and the mechanisms for how science and health and nutrition all these things are interacting that's about as reasonable as you could ever ask 25 cents yeah I'd really I'd like to have a lot of people just doing 25 cents a month because it's you know it's less than a cup of coffee what one minute one minute to go all right we got to we got to wrap this up so found myfitness uh at Twitter found myfitness found myy fitness.com all the information is there thank you Ronda Patrick as always you're amazing these conversations are so enlightening and so educational I mean I can't I got to go back over it 30 or 40 times to really absorb it all but uh really really appreciate it let's do it again in a few months awesome aesome thank you so much all right thank you to everybody tuned in thanks to our sponsor thank to this week thanks to stamps.com use the code word JRE and save yourself some money lots and lots of cool guests next week um uh I'll tell you about them all later I'll see you soon Steve Maxwell's coming back next week uh Alex Ross from sharw works.com we're going to have a lot of fun see you soon bye [Applause] [Music]