Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVUoQd-P6o
hello my friends this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience is sponsored by stamps.com stamps.com is an awesome way to avoid going to the post office and waiting in line you if you do send things online you know that there is a real issue with going to the post office boxing up stuff if you have your own personal business personal business you have a small business send things out of your home um you got to go to the post office bring your packages have them wait out it's a huge timeconsuming pain in the ass and all that stuff can be avoided now with stamps.com stamps.com allows you to print official US postage with a home computer it's uh amazingly easy and uh with our uh offer if you use the promo code JRE they give you a $110 bonus offer includes a digital scale and up to $55 of free postage all of it can be taken care of from your home it's so nice you weigh it out you you you uh you get the the printer to print out the US postage you put it on the package the mailman comes you hand it to him and you're done it's a beautiful fantastic way to uh increase your productivity and avoid the nonsense that is waiting in line at the post office and if the rates go up if there's any change in postal rates it's all covered by stamps.com it's open 247 you can do it naked you can do it drunk nobody can tell you stop you're it's a beautiful thing stamps.com and if you go to stamps.com before you do anything else click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in JRE that's stamps.com and enter JRE for your $110 bonus offer it's used by Brian redband who just showed up um to uh send out the kitty cat T-shirts from uh Des squad. TV um Tom uh Tom sigur and pitsky they use it for your mom's house to send out their stuff uh Bert Cher uses it stamp.com we can't say enough good things about it it's an awesome easy convenient way to send things from your home with official US postage in a much more relaxing way we are also brought to you by lumosity.com lumosity.com is essentially like an online gym for your brain a lot of folks don't know that you can actually train your brain the way you train your body most people think of uh the brain as being just some sort of an eight organ that just stays the way it is your your brain actually benefits from exercise
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is essentially everything that I find that I use uh whether it's strength and conditioning equipment whether it's uh health and nutrition supplements whether it's foods like hemp Forest protein bars or the Earth grown nutrient supplement that we uh we suggested lot of people add to your your daily shakes in the morning to cover your nutritional needs no soy no Dairy no gluten F fantastic mix of nutrients Champion a antioxidant blend we have um Peruvian purple corn acai fruit all sorts of different antioxidants combined with the power green blend which is spirulina Alfalfa oatgrass kale and more all this stuff is available the the information behind it is all available at on it.com and it all it is quite fascinating and it's really really healthy stuff and a great way to cover your bases um we would all like to get all of our nutrients from food if and whenever possible and uh if you're a guy like Joel salatin you can do that but if you're a guy out there on the move and uh you're uh maybe perhaps uh mixing in some um not so healthy food with uh with you know fresh fruits and vegetables and and and lean meats and proteins sometimes you uh you need to supplement and one of the best ways to supplement is uh this Earth grown nutrients uh package everything we sell it on it is um stuff that either I use or Aubrey uses uh my um my partnering on it and things that we have found that we have researched and things that we have found that there's science behind if you go to uh any of the products like especially the uh the things like uh Alpha Brain which is a uh cognitive enhancing nutritive um nutritional combination of things um that have all been shown to benefit memory what a neut Tropic is for folks who don't not familiar with the term neut Tropics are essentially nutrients that um are that have been found to enhance cognitive function and what that means is the all the building blocks for human neurotransmitters the building blocks that enhance your memory it can be very confusing but if you go to on it.com and click on the alphabrain link there's actually uh a bunch of science behind it a bunch of research behind it uh with references we actually have done our own clinically uh based uh double blind Placebo study and uh those results
are available at onet.com and more uh studies are ongoing it's all really fascinating stuff Cutting Edge Nutrition and um controversial in a sense but non-controversial in the fact that we give you a 100% money back guarantee 90 days on the first 30 pills you have a 100% money back guarantee you don't even have to return your product you just have to say this stuff is [ __ ] and uh then you get your money back that's crazy I didn't know that on it is going naked or not having like the colored pills anymore CU they're getting rid of the dyes and stuff that's actually on the pills yeah yeah we did that a while ago but um know that it's also because people like they look like when you look at it it looks like U ecstasy well yeah well green and was green and yellow it doesn't look like ecstasy it looks like um like a pharmaceutical you know it looks like something that you would get it doesn't look like Earth grown nutrients it doesn't look like it's healthy I don't know it's just colors gelatin gelatin and colors anyway go to an.com use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements uh I alluded yesterday that we got some big news coming up it's going to be a while before we announce it but we have big plans uh at on it uh in I can't tell you too much about it but uh it'll be uh about um about uh mixed martial arts is what it's going to be about it's going to be about uh I'll just tell you it's about a training center all right there it is that's it on it.com use a code word Rogan save 10% off any and all supplements Joel Salon is here and we're going to talk to him and we're going to learn some [ __ ] hit the button it out the joean experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day a sure sign sir that we live in a mad mad world is when a person has sane ideas and he comes across as a revolutionary and um I I have Joel salon for folks who don't know he is an American Farmer a lecturer you're an author and your uh approach to farming is uh is so natural and so normal and so uh in my opinion non-controversial that it's it's quite fascinating that in this day and age with this mad mad world of factory farming and pumping these animals full of hormones and chemicals and antibiotics that your approach
has sort of revolutionized a a a lot of the ideas that people have about farming I think it's uh a real sign that there's something wrong with us when I watch your methods and i' I've seen your videos and I've heard you talk on it it seems like No Nonsense it seems like it seems normal it seems like common sense it seems like old knowledge but yet you're looked at as some sort of uh a wild man out there a lunatic you're a lunatic you're nice to your animals yeah we are I mean you know uh people say oh you're just so clever you know how do you come up with this and uh my response is that uh this is not new you know uh I mean I mean Tak take take just for example you know our culture right I mean our our experts you know our us duh and our uh us duh our experts yeah um you know they don't think that animals are supposed to move I mean but animals are supposed to move I mean that's like it's like a fundamental natural pattern and so you know if you posit oh animals are supposed to move well then a whole series of things happen you know from you know control mechanisms shelter you know water Delivery Systems all sorts of things happen to happen if you just posit something as as intuitively simple as on our farm animals are going to move it's amazing so you know if animals are going to move you have to keep them home you have to be able to move them you know in the right place at the right time so then you have to have portable control mechanisms or you got to keep them you know comfortable so then you have portable shade mechanisms and uh You Gotta Give Them water so we've got to be able to have portable water and um and so all these things necessarily flow from just something as basic as animals move find it fascinating it is fascinating because most people have they've they've gone the opposite way with it what they've said is uh we don't want animals to move so let's contain them right right I mean so the the the industrial system system is predicated on you know we we lock all these animals up in a you know in a confinement facility uh you know 15,000 chickens in a house uh you know nine laying hens in a 16 by 22 in cubicle uh I mean there's not enough
room even to to sit down um you know cattle in feed Lots pigs in you know confinement houses and we do the same thing kind of in our plants I mean that that's the you know the next thing then is in nature there are no monocultures there are no mono species anywhere you go in nature no matter where you hike there's going to be at least two species you're going to encounter multiple things in fact you're going to encounter animals and plants in proximity amazing you know it's not going to be fields of animalist wheat or fields of animalis strawberries and then over here the animals confined in a you know a little itty bitty uh building stinking up the neighborhood uh instead in nature these things are actually proximate and they're actually symbiotic I mean they actually have a lot of uh you know synergistic functions to each other I found it fascinating that you uh when you raise your pigs you uh you call them uh wood finished Forest finished pigs yeah um we call them uh you know pasture finished or or Acorn Glens uh we call them Glenns you know for the old U leprechauns you know lurking in the woods in in the in the forest uh it just has a nice ring to it but uh yeah we we we use electric fence other words um this is not you know uh Lite this is not anti-technology stuff um what we're doing is using pigs all pigs have four-wheel drive and uh uh they they like to disturb places I mean you know they have a great big plow on the end of their face called a nose and so all we're doing is taking the way Buffalo and fire and predators used to move across the landscape with dis you know with periodic disturbance we don't have Buffalo anymore we don't have the fire we don't even have the Wolves much and so how do we create this disturbance you know this is a this is a a very important ecological principle that um that living organisms have to be disturbed in order to um have succession to another level you know whether it's you know the pain that comes from uh exercise you know if you if you want to if you want to be physically fit you got to disturb your body you got to get up off a couch potato and ecology is the same way it needs to be disturbed and so you know actually the ecology is used to having a lot of you know disturbance
factors on it disturbance and then rest disturbance and then rest and so we use high-tech electric fencing to be able to move these pigs around in these forest glends from one little section to another in a in a kind of Rapid rotation so that we have very um intense disturbance and then a long period of rest intense intense disturbance long period and what that does is the pigs then go in and they they till they eat bugs that would affect the trees they root out starchy weedy you know species things like that and um eat a lot of eat a lot of goodies you know they get fresh air they get exercise sunshine and uh and are able to fully Express their pigness and uh and and what you end up with then is an incredibly uh nutrient dense product as opposed to a white meat flabby product like out of the industry and the other thing is that you now have a whole new bunch of species that have germinated and sprouted in this Disturbed uh environment this Disturbed soil and you actually you actually capture more solar energy than you would with just leaves and sterile Forest bottom so the the actual product the pig itself would be more like a wild pig then yeah that's exactly right in fact we've had uh we Supply about 50 restaurants and um we've had chefs do um displacement tests where they'll get like industry P industry pork and our pork and using their very carefully calibrated scales they can make you know two blocks of of meat uh that are exactly the same weight put them in a a pan of water measure the displacement and our pork displaces less water per pound than the industrial pork what does that mean well what it means is that the tissue is stronger in other words there is there is more weight per cubic inch which which means it's it's better formed it's um why would that we call that we call that muscle tone oh I see I see so they're denser fat fat and and you know flab if we could say flab um is is is a lot more volume per pound oh I see if you jump in a swimming pool and you're you know really muscle toned sometimes you have trouble floating MH but if you're a you know fat person you know you can float in that water like a blimp all day you know it just works fine and so so you know uh density muscle uh tone and density can be
measured with a displacement test that's fascinating so um this much more nutrient dense absolutely is is is it preferred by these chefs flavor wise absolutely I mean that's why that's why they they get it and the and the the result is that you actually get you actually get more nutrition per pound because it's you know it's denser I smoked a wild ham for the first time uh this past weekend and it was uh fascinating how much different it tasted than a regular ham so your your hams would be similar to that right that's right darker meat darker yeah U you know when the industry says pork you know remember they had to campaign for what 10 years por the other white meat I think now it's um what's the new this they abandoned that slogan now it's uh uh something like you know get with it or something like that be inspired Be Inspired Be Inspired exactly be ins an animal that lives in a box how what yeah so so crazy is that yeah so you know my my father-in-law he's in his 80s now and you know they used to raise hogs on their farm and it's interesting they built their they had a a kind of a a a shed shelter where the pigs would go in and eat like soured milk and whe and and leftovers from they milked about 20 cows and so they'd always be leftovers and the pigs would go in there well they actually built it with the sill two feet above the ground so the pigs had to jump up in there and that exercise made their hams taste way better and it and it increased oxygen flow to their hams so the meat was rosec colored rather than white oh and that and that rose color indicates iron hemoglobin iron so the the exercise of jumping in and the extra I I collect old uh um AGG books you anything before 1950s pretty good after that it all went to pot and uh and so if you read any like old like 1910 1920 1900 uh swine book the first thing it'll say is exercise exercise because the the pork responds to that oxygenation of the blood and makes the meat a deep you know a deep uh Rich color which indicates you know Iron that is so fascinating so this white meat this pork the other way what a crazy ad campaign that is then of course it is it's based entirely on on on ignorance sure it is yes it is I mean the same thing as you know our chickens are vegetarians right that's ridiculous birds are
omnivores you know I mean uh whoever saw a robin refuse a worm you know I mean birds are omnivores so this whole idea of of uh you know vegetarian fed chickens is just this would be sick chickens yeah it it it makes you know pale um nutrition nutrient deficient eggs yeah there's a big difference in the color of the eggs uh I have chickens I have uh 13 chickens in my yard and uh my wife and I uh have been doing that for the past uh year and a half now and it it's amazing how much better the eggs taste it's amazing how much darker the yolk is it's like a dark orange and uh you know we have a big yard and we keep them and we have a huge house built that's bigger than this studio bigger than this room at least and uh the chickens all live in there they have plenty of room to run around and then Taj Mahal chicken house it's a big chicken house and then we open the door and uh let them roam around the yard and and you know pick up bugs and worms and all that stuff but and express their chickness Express that's a good way it's a good way to put it you know in our in our in our country right now uh in in the industrial Foods I call it the uh the industrial um you know corporate us duve fraternity um they don't view life as fundamentally biological they view life as fundamentally mechanical that's the the big difference between the industrial food perspective and what I'll call A A more um a craft oriented food perspective is is is food fundamentally biological or is it mechanical and they don't ask I mean I've never seen a research project that that starts with an umbrella uh supposition um let's let's define what makes a happy chicken or a happy pig you know it's all about how do we grow them faster fatter bigger cheaper and uh as if they're just inanimate piles of Proto protoplasmic structure to be manipulated however cleverly huus can imagine to manipulate them and I would suggest that a culture that views its food its plant and animals from from that kind of mechanistic manipulative standpoint will view its people the same way and other cultures the same way that's a very good point both points yeah it's a very good point do you think that your your your style of farming is is that possible on a large scale that's my favorite
question uh you know can we feed the world because ultimately all of this is just a bunch of is an exercise in uh you know feel goodness you know warm fuzziness unless it actually does translate de feeding the world so let let let let's take that and interrupt me anytime um first of all for the first time in human history we're producing twice as much human edible food as we need on the planet twice as much half of all human edible food never gets eaten by a human that's the first time that's ever happened wow which mean which means that if if you or I could you know click our fingers today and suddenly double the Earth's food production not a single other person would get a meal food people go hungry not because there's not enough food but because of you know demographic problems INF structure problems you know there's not a road um you know uh um cultural issues like in inner cities and you know that have been taken over by you know drugs Mayhem and and and gangs uh businesses don't want to go there you know people with Integrity food don't want to go there and so and so there's a uh there's a tremendous amount of waste I mean I was talking to a guy that just was at a green bean factory in in Zimbabwe they were exporting to Europe and they were taking in five tons a day and only shipping two tons I saids what happened to the other three tons well they're crooked they're too long they're too short they've got a little black spot you know and um so you so we're we're waste you know we're wasting a lot of food secondly there is a tremendous amount of land that's not being used because we have a fundamentally segregated food system not an integrated food system so we you know we produce the food over here here but we and we eat it over here we feed it over here we have the manure over here you know the the old integrated system is no longer there are 35 million Acres of lawn in the US and 36 million Acres housing and feeding recreational horses that 71 million Acres that's enough to feed the entire us without a single farmer Ranch wow so what this food that's going bad so if we're making twice as much food as people need what is it a matter
of the food deteriorating too quickly to get to people or it's never going to get to people it's never going to get to people uh you know go go by the uh back door of any Supermarket produce department and you will see you know dumpsters full of spoiled stuff one of the reasons I mean there are numerous reasons there are there are residue problems for example you know a dairy that that uh accidentally dumps some antibiotic for example and then it taints a whole tractor trailer load of milk that's common that's common um you have U cosmetic issues you know uh a piece of fruit that has one little blemish throw away um the the long you know the long warehousing and chain of custody uh between you know between field and Fork that creates spoilage issues and and so you know there are just a lot of factors in the system uh that don't do it that that spoil food that being said um we we can absolutely grow a lot more food than we do um people are enamored you know they see you know six combines running side by side down through a Kansas wheat field and say wow look at that you know or they see a great big you know 500 acre fumigated strawberry field in California you know wow look at all that prod but the fact is that even a very rudimentary almost poorly done backyard garden is more productive per square yard than the most industrial sophisticated technologically advanced monos speciated industrial Farm that's the truth why is that why is that is because there is a when you when you diversify when you have a diversified um cornicopia of plant and animals in proximity you actually have a synergistic uh effect so that instead of growing one species if you reduce the production of one species and grow two species on the same area um you get like 120% of your production so for example you know we we you know we have pastured livestock so we run the cows across the pasture we run the eggo behind them the egg mobiles are have chickens that scratch through the Cow Patties and eat the eat now the newly exposed Grasshoppers and crickets that the uh that the cows expose by eating the grass and then we run Broiler chickens meat chickens over that same
ground we run turkeys over that same ground and so all of those animals they're not on the same square foot at the same time but they go like you know like like uh um different waves of of production across the landscape and so whereas the normal farm would have only one of those species confined in a little tiny building we have an acre being used all throughout the year with a lot of different kinds of species going across suddenly you don't have pathogen suddenly you don't have the pathogens because the pathogens are confused because you know the cow the cow pathogen hatches out next to a chicken pathogen and or you know and and they're toxic to each other and so they they have a war and they fight and they die they cancel each other out yeah which is really what's supposed to happen in nature absolutely absolutely and so you know the kind of diversity you see on the serengetti in Africa at a you know at a water hole in in uh you know Zimbabwe whatever I mean those kinds of diversities a they protect the animals from path from their own pathogens because almost all pathogens are species specific so if if you put multiple diversity together it it U acts as a as a dead end okay but secondly those animals occupy different spaces you know you've got you've got herbivores omnivores carnivores you know they're all occupying the same space and so a given area can stack that's a permaculture concept if you're familiar with permaculture um can stack synergistic multiple species and Enterprise on a single land base Brian pull up uh polyface Farms there's a there's a video fascinating video so you can the folks at home can get a sense of what he's talking about when he's saying egg mobiles and you you've designed this sort of chicken house that moves around it's it's on like sleds it's on Wheels mhm and you you pull it around and so the chickens will be in one spot and then you move it to another spot and in in doing so you allow the the land to get moved around that's right rather than rather than having a stationary structure where we're carrying everything in and carrying everything out and there's a toxicity build up with the animals being uh you know confined to one spot all the time
instead you are actually allowing the animals to move to mimic kind of their migratory pattern on a domestic you know scale all we're doing is we're cutting out the natur like the natural template and and laying it down on a domestic production model say how can we duplicate this this this pattern on a domestic model that's what that's what we're doing and in in doing so and like this such a large scale um can this be duplicated like factory farming systems that are so rightly criticized in this country which we find to be boring when you look at these videos of these chickens living stacked next to each other it's it's horrific stuff it is what what is it that's beneficial about those factory farms that keeps them from doing something like this well what you have to understand is that those factory farms externalize a lot of their costs so there's there's collateral damage uh that collateral damage in terms of water pollution fecal particulate in the air one of the biggest ones right now is SE and Mera you know these these um antibiotic resistant high high uh High path staff infections in hospitals and you know that people are getting um and and and now of course you know we're seeing an exponential growth in autism there's a there's a link there to for example genetically modified organisms that might be another discussion but but the what I'm getting at is that the collateral damage of the industrial food system including the nutrient deficiency the fact that the Omega sixes and Omega-3s are way out of whack so the fats instead of reducing cholesterol you know instead of being beneficial are are negative um there are there are huge um nutrient deficiencies I mean riboflavin the eggs in your backyard chickens are probably in the area of a thousand micrograms per egg you know what the official USDA you know nutrient analysis for eggs is only 48 micrograms per eggs Jesus I mean and and you know and um I'm sorry not RI folic acid that's folic acid grass finished beef uh 300% more riboflavin uh riboflavin of course is what helps us to keep calm and not fly off the handle it's a it's the nerve riboflavin is the nerve one um you know why are people raging and going crazy and you know shooting people in schools and stuff um
we we're deficient of riboflavin so you know when when people say oh it doesn't make any different food is food is food that's not true I mean uh there's a huge difference in in this food um you know vegetables the same way whether they're grown in you know mineral dense biologically active soil uh compared to hydroponic or just you know what we call um um IV soil you know where the soil is just inert material to hold up a root and we we basically IV chemical fertilizers into that soil to grow a you know to grow a plant so there are there are there are significant uh differences in the nutritional element so this is all collateral damage and and and the slinky effect between you know between cause and effect takes a while I mean take DDT DDT it took 14 years from its initial use until 14 years later it was definitively discovered oh that's why we have three-legged salamanders infertile frogs and dead zones uh and Eagles HS eggs won't hatch you know those those um cause and effects took a while to materialize because Nature's pretty resilient you know you can you know you you can uh beat yourself up for a while and you know still come out kicking for a while and I'm sure there's probably also Financial factors that were resisting the conclusions well exactly the the all of that collateral damage is deferred expense you know whether it's obesity health care um um pollution cleanup uh superf fund sites you know soil loss uh aquifer depletion um you know desertification these are all coll deferred damages because in our country we don't have an accting system to measure I mean our only accounting system is is um cash you know gross domestic uh product you know today's output we don't have a way to measure these other elements I mean I'll give you I'll give you one example let's take let's take uh earthworms let's agree that earthworms are pretty important well you know who presents a business plan today to a to an investor and the investor says hey I kind of like this business plan I think this is a good idea we're going to can I be your partner we're going to be millionaires you know on this uh on this uh business but but before I sign my
investment strategy I've got one question for you I mean I'm from the south so you know you got have a big hog okay um so but I got to ask you one question uh what's this business going to do to the earthworms in our community yeah nobody ask no nobody and and yet you know and yet fundamentally the micro risia the earthworms the the aactor bacteria the melium the Hydra you know um they actually this this invisible community of beings actually supports all of life what we see you know every every visible thing that we see is supported by an invisible Universe of microscopic bacteria and beings in us around us you know in the soil they're cousins and now we know they talk to each other so in a sense what we're getting with factory farming is one small unit in the environment extracting money at the expense of all these other factors and these extraneous costs aren't aren't factored in that's correct because they don't have to be they don't have to be our our system is not set up for accounting those other things that's fascinating so if if it was done correctly if it was all done your way although would be more expensive those external expenses wouldn't exist in in in the big scheme of things in the big scheme of things the actual the actual uh cost of food would actually be cheaper because you wouldn't have the Collateral Damage I mean just take one one example in our lifetime mad cow disease I mean realize for 30 years the European and the American um expert credential you know PhD academic Community took Farmers like me to free steak dinners to teach us this new scientific method of you know feeding dead cows to cows and our farm was branded uh Barbarian Lite anti-progressive you know science haters because we didn't buy into that uh that model the reason we didn't didn't buy into it was not because we were anti-science or anti- innovation or anything like that it's because I looked around the earth and you know I couldn't find an herbivore that eats carryon you I couldn't find it and so he said well there must be a reason and and and here 30 years later suddenly there's this big Global
Collective oops maybe we shouldn't ought have done that you know as the whole scientific Community realized uh you know what had happened a and so uh so I just think there's a there that we have to appreciate that we are in Western culture you know we're a we're a product of you know GRE Roman Western reductionist compartmentalized fragmentized systematized individualized uh democratized uh Parts oriented disconnected thinking and there's an equally appropriate uh mindset from the East which is we're all connected we're all relatives it's about holes you know it's about us not just me and that brings us an ethical framework as a as a as a protection over aoral Innovation you know we're so clever we can innovate things that we can't spiritually morally ethically or physically metabolize and so what happens is we innovate these things and then so and then spend you know two generations trying to remediate you know remediate the collateral damage that our Innovations did and if we would just Embrace that there is there should be a moral ethical uh um natural pattern that restricts that constrains our Innovation then our Innovation could actually be kept on a you know on an earth massaging tract track instead of an earth Conquistador track so you used to literally get cted to feed dead cows to cows like oh absolutely uh free seminars you know come out and uh you know they've got sponsors you know the local you know agrs community and the uh you know the industrial the uh food and you know the industrial complex would would you know buy dinner and sure and you go hear these you know these couple phds from the taxpayer funded research universities you know what was motivation well I I don't understand why they would faster bigger cheaper fatter it it's cheap it you know I mean um it's cheap it's cheap protein cheap food but but the idea of making your cows cannibals well yeah I mean well the industry still feeds you know chicken manure I mean well we're still feeding in this country right now as we sit here we're still feeding chicken feathers manure and chicken
carcasses to chicken they're doing it you know right in our neighborhood uh so that's still being done so we're still feeding but not but at least but at least it's not cows all right at least not cows but yeah it it's completely absurd why is it better to do it with chickens than cows well well it's it's well supposedly it's not the same kind of tissue oh okay you know so it's it's at least it's one species removed you know so you have some you have a little bit of wiggle room for the for the Rogue prons that create the Bine sponge ofor and cyop ay and that's the same disease that these cows getting mad cow disease that cannibals get and like in New Guinea these neurological disease where they can't move right shons yeah mhm yeah it it punches holes in your brain yeah it's a pretty uh it's a pretty bad way to go yeah it seems pretty dark when did factory farming start like the what we consider today factory farming when did all that start yeah well it's a great question it it really started in the 30s 40s and 50s um a lot of things had to come together and uh of course you know Michael pollen in his I think omnivores dilemma um examines this uh pretty nicely but but to point out that or Eric schoser in fast food nation you know that was a blockbuster you know when it came out and a lot of factors had to be in place one was we had to have cheap energy because prior to in order to have a factory farm you have to have cheap transportation in order to bring in order to concentrate that many beings in one place and feed them and remove their excrement you have to have cheap trans Transportation cheap Transportation uh requires cheap energy you know when everything was draft power you know mules and horses and oxin you simply couldn't amalgamate that many things whether it was animals or shoes or or metal uh you couldn't amalgamate that much material in in in in one place so so every manufacturing facility whether it was a farm or re you know other manufacturing had to Nest within the carrying capacity of its ecological womb if you will there there was a there was a limit how far can we cart stuff in and how far can we cart stuff out there was a limit to that until we had cheap energy and cheap Transportation so that
really you know catapulted this then the next thing we had to have we had to have pipeable water we had to have so so that meant plastic piping we had to have very cheap piping I mean until then it was all cast iron pipe you know in the 1800s it was you know you you took a piece of wood and took an augur and bored it out you know and pasted little pipes together so you know we had to have uh plastic so plastic had to be developed which of course required petroleum so petroleum was really a catalyst and then finally in order to keep that many animals alive in one spot required antibiotics because the the fecal particulate the the feal dust cloud you know that they live in that they ingest is very abrasive to the very tender um mucus respiratory membranes uh all the Celia and those those very um you know you look at them under a microscope and it's it's like a it's like going into a Steven Spielberg set you know it's just amazing well those very tender uh mucous membranes um get sandpapered by this um feal particulate this abrasive air and and they bleed then and and this is how salmonella and some of these things get into the into the actual uh tissue even into the eggs remember the Wisconsin farm with the salmonella um it actually gets into the oviduct because now the old the body's um toxic Hedges you know it's filters it's strainers have been overridden by this um you know by this uh direct hemorrhaging of the tender mucous membranes it gets right into the bloodstream so that's how it you know it it jumps those regular um uh strainers wow and so so the antibiotics were necessary to try to uh in order to keep the animals in such an unsterile uh unhealthy environment to keep them alive I don't know whether you've watched just lately what's happened with pigs um J it's been all over the newspapers and Wall Street Journal even you know when you see Pig Futures hit Wall Street Journal you know something's going on and uh I think it was in you know January and part of February they almost doubled what's the problem starting April 1 last year just April 1 last year so we're we're we're we're literally 12 months into this exactly 12 months the industry started losing one in four Piggies industrywide to a viral diarrhea now my joke is you know if there's one
thing worse than diarrhea it's got to be viral diarrhea but but anyway um this this um this is attacking the industrial Pigs we're not seeing it you know out in the countryside in pastured pigs and our sort of things but it's making uh pork Futures Skyrocket the industry is on its heels they're desperate to find a pro find a a cure of course you know finding a cure would mean changing their model but of course they're they're trying to find a technological cure you know some more um potent concoction all right to knock this out in such an un unhealthy environment and so uh imagine that I mean Nationwide of all the whatever millions of pigs one in four 25% of all Piggies right now being born in the US are dying wow from viral diarrhea that's incredible yeah it's it's it's big deal big deal this environment that you're talking about this pathogen Rich environment where they they the fetal particulates in the air completely not natural in nature they're in Wide Open Fields and the the air and the the natural environment filters all this this is something that's completely been over the last you know less than 100 years it's very recent it's only in the last you know 50 to 60 years uh our rule of thumb is that uh good food production good farming good food production should be aesthetically and aromatically sensually romantic you know I mean it look if you've got to walk through sheep dip and put on a hazmat suit to go visit your food you might not want to eat it yeah yeah absolutely now this this idea of factory farming um this this huge large scale thing where you're stuffing all these chickens into could could those Farms be converted to a more holistic approach like you're you're prescribing that is such a a a great question and and uh you I'll tell you the truth my heart goes out to Farmers who have signed on the dotted line and and and been kind of taken in by this you know by this model but um the fact is they are so so um anti- nature that I don't see a retrofit uh and and that's one of the problems when you have Capital intensive infrastructure when you have single single designed or or single use Capital intensive infrastructure even when it becomes um a detriment to society to have that infrastructure we still have to use it
because we're economically and emotionally vested in it you know our toys run our thinking um I mean look at you look at the health field I mean you know we have to use our infrastructure because it's really expensive and so we've got to use this stuff and the same thing is true in farming now you know when you pour that much concrete and bend that much rebar uh you know you you feel compelled to use it so it's a it's a real problem and um and I I just um uh yeah I just don't see really efficient ways of retrofitting a lot of these structures uh you know they might make good miniature golf courses they you know smell though God yeah well uh I mean just to give you to give you an example of some things that can be done with a different model um one is just to give you an example one is that if you go to a composting bedding in a in a in an operation um you can amarate a lot of the problems the problem is that that takes a lot of carbon um in order to have compost you have to have a carbon nitrogen ratio that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 35 to1 all right CN it's called the CN ratio and of course you have to have you have to have moisture you have to have air and you have to have microbes so there there's five components to a m to a compost pile but you have to have one other thing and that is enough size to support an internal community of microbial beings yeah they've got to have their you know TV shows they got to build their roads have their schools you know and uh have Banks and you know politicians and stuff too so it it takes room for these microorganisms to build those communities you can't build a compost pile that's 12 in by 12 in by 12 in too small uh the smallest size is like you know a yard by a yard by a yard all right well um the problem is that in most you know uh factory farming facilities you can't not only can you not even have any bedding in there the animals are on slatted floors or virtually no concrete there there is no life there is no um community of beings good community of beings in
nature a lot of people don't realize there are a lot more good bacteria than bad bacteria there really aren't that many bad bacteria in nature you know if you're keeping score of of U of things there are actually a lot more good ones than bad ones when you come to this invisible you know world of little microbial beings and and so the default position what I'm getting to is the default position of nature is Health we in our culture right now we've got things so out of whack that we just assume that the default position of nature is sickness you know the Nature's broken and I've got to fix it that's not true the default position of nature is wellness and health if if there's sickness then then that indicates something out of whack there's there's a m there's there's a there's a protocol that's been violated so um one of the ways to house animals at least temporarily in shelter is to have a living a living um blanket I call it a carbonaceous diaper for them to live on uh that that is deep enough and Alive enough with all these microbes so that neod attack the path penic microbes so that uh in this in this sphere there's enough um community of beings interacting in this war of good bugs and bad bugs the good bugs beat out the bad bugs that's that's the right position and that can be done we actually use that when we feed hay in the winter time in our hay sheds we use it for the pigs in the winter when they're in housing for the for the brooder house where we start chicks we you know we have it where we can build up 24 inches of bedding in the hay shed with the cows we can go four feet deep with this carbonaceous living composting uh bedding and um and you know and that is a partial answer but the buildings that are currently designed can't handle a living compost medium for the animals to be on they're they're they're Str they're structurally not designed to handle that and so you know the retrofit becomes pretty tough that's fascinating so it's almost like they need to be destroyed and it need to be start from scratch yeah yeah and and uh the beautiful thing is
really they don't need to be replaced with very much they just need to be abandoned you know most you know most most um most great breakthroughs throughout history breakthroughs have been break wids something you know think about the Breakthrough for for for example um compact discs you know um the Germans tried to do it for a long time but they couldn't get past the longplay disc model you know we just can't do it and the Japanese who didn't have a history of LP records like Germany did they said well why does it have to be you know this size let's make it smaller Boom the Japanese own you know that whole Market uh so it was a break with tradition and many Innovations many Innovative things are break widths that's the key to the Breakthrough there's a lot of people that don't realize that what we're dealing with when you're talking about a lot of the flu and a lot of the diseases that become pandemics that they start with livestock uh Aven flu swine flu some of the most horrific flu that we've experienced in the past 100 years have come as a direct result of this type of farming yes that's right uh the the um the concentration the the total unnatural concentration um and and buildup of toxicity in these places is incredible and so what happens is that the industry uses concoctions you know um from from something as benign as chlorine all the way to you know uh stiffer stuff to try to sanitize clean wash down all that stuff but all that does is um is open the door for the survivors and every and every time a new concoction is developed there are survivors and the survivors become more and more virent so that for example when the industry says oh look ecoli it's been around forever you know get over it eoli part of a cow's digestion well that's true but not the virulent strains that we're developing by feeding unnatural feeds and the drugs and so where those would normally be fairly benign in our highly acidic digestive system they become more virent and they survive in US instead of us killing them and and that's this evolution of things I mean you know uh take um you know Arkansas now where the where their farmers are now budgeting $70 per acre to hand
machete superweeds that have morphed as a result of uh glyphosate round up because of genetically modified organism uh corn uh and soybeans being planted it it's created these Survivor superweeds because everything whenever we try to sterilize or sanitized there are survivors and those survivors become tougher and tougher and tougher we are a bunch of dummies aren't we well we really are as a the human race we are just a bunch of silly dummies there's a there's an issue that uh is a a big one with um antibiotic soaps a lot of people think it's real smart to wash with antibiotic soaps but what they don't realizes that antibiotic soaps kill all the good Flora on your skin as well and it seems like that's really similar to what's going on here absolutely your your talk of the the live bedding what that is is Nature's Own way of dealing with the pathes instead of pumping some chemicals into them that's right and there's nothing unnatural about it in other words you don't get you don't get virent survivors they're all on the equal you know uh uh creation playing field if you will all right and and and all and our responsibility then is simply to create a habitat um that that allows this this um Battlefield to play out in its natural setting natural setting is the key because there is sort of a give and take a place a jigsaw puzzle piece place for all of the various elements of a farm of an ecosystem and that's what you're addressing when you're that's what I found so incredibly fascinating about the the idea of continuing to move these animals and you have these very low voltage electric fences that are just enough so they go up I don't want to go near there no one's getting hurt but they're like no it's it's a it's it's it's called a psychological barrier uh it's essentially a car battery you use right so it's portable well well it's an energ I mean it's a car batter power car battery powering an Energizer uh it has high voltage but no amperage so you know you get a lot of pain but there's no danger because you're running like you know a uh goodness uh you know a a 20th of an amp okay I mean there's there's no energy but there's a but but there's a lot of pressure uh and so um so you these systems again you know these are
computer microchip systems so you know I think I think as we've talked about how did the factory farm develop I think perhaps you know rather than uh continue you can go wherever you want to with the questions but but I I would like to to point out to folks that as bad as that is and depressing and yeah we're a bunch of dummies and all that my goodness we have now innovated the most amazing infrastructure to be able for the first time in human history to caress our Earth Nest our lover if you will more strategically and purposely purposefully than we have ever been able to do it before and the tech and and the infrastructure is amazing amazing one is electric fencing I mean you can now in in in a wheelbarrow full of material you can now Place hundreds of thousands of animals in a certain spot for a day and and and and manage carefully their intersection with a given piece of nature that's that's unprecedented we've never been able to do that before um we and we can protect them we can make comfortable not with stationary Barns and you know big post and beam you know you have to cut down the whole Forest to do this but now with Band Saw Band Saw uh technology instead of you know the big old circular saws that that removed a quarter of an inch per cut um now with a little Honda engine you know that that that saps on that's you know just sips Fuel and a and a on Tenth of an inch thick uh band saw we can now Mill Tinker toy like La structure material to build very lightweight portable barns portable shelters so we we use those on our farm we have all these portable infrastructures for turkeys chickens cows pigs um so that we can move a shade tree or a barn protective shelter with the animals with a four-wheeler uh you know a couple of guys pushing it along okay this portable infrastructure then um allows us to keep the a animals controlled and comfortable and with black pipe black pipe we can lay miles what's black pipe black a plastic pipe okay okay we can now um develop a a pond or a spring and put that water in a nice clean you know delivery system like the plumbing in your house and deliver it miles so the animals aren't you know
drinking out of their toilet they're not you know pooping and then drinking out of it and all that like you see that no they're actually eating I mean I drink out of the cow troughs I mean that water's clean enough for me to drink you drink out of that absolutely oh it it builds up your immune system oh it builds up your immune system does it yeah yeah you know you ever get sick you know uh knock on wood I haven't been sick for years I don't remember the last time I was sick I even with a cold really yeah well really I mean I take a lot of vitamin C every day um you know scorc acid I take my uh you know dopatropic for keep me you know from going crazy what's dopatropic it's a it's an herb uh mix it it uh you know it it's related to dopamine and stuff but it it's a it's a calmer it's a com I travel so much now that in such an unnatural environment you know I I was starting a couple years ago I was starting into a kind of a a figh ORF flight subconscious figh ORF flight thing where I would get I couldn't breathe you know on an airplane and stuff because it was and and you know I'd get all congested and and all this and uh I went to a you know went to a quack an alternative uh medical practitioner that that uses the kind of machines they use in Europe you know when you go in the emergency room in Europe and you grab two probes and a little needle you know tells you everything that's wrong with you you know it costs like pennies you know I mean that's how they can get along with government healthcare because they actually are smart about it you know what are these probes you hold on with your hands and they tell you what's wrong with you Scientology yeah yeah no it's pretty cool anyway I mean it's not endorsed by any medical work oh absolutely listen what's it called I thought it was funny too I went for my first visit I sat down she said somewhere in your background you had a you had a a bladder issue didn't you I I didn't I hadn't said a word I'm I mean I'm 57 right when I was how old was I eight I had a malfunctioning kidney valve malfunctioning kidney valve almost died I this was a long time ago right they went in with surgery and repaired
that valve but what it was doing it was letting my urine back up from my bladder back up up into the kidney it's it's a one-way check valve okay so you know your bladder is under pressure right right and and and that urine is supposed to only go One Direction all right into the bladder well I had one malfunctioning valve that was letting as the bladder filled up with pressure it was the balloon was pushing the urine back up into the kidney right all right so they went and repaired it anyway in in in 10 minutes her machine picked up that which was you know 50 year of 50-year-old whatever you know bodily injury you know uh problem um and and boy I you know I sat up and saluted at that point you I woo that's this is what's the machine called I don't know what the machine's called if if if I if if I knew more about it then somebody'd come after me and put me in jail probably quack watches is that the same machine this right here it says that that's one of the machines there's different kinds of models of it I'm guessing yeah there there this this is quack watch though this is a website that's saying it's a quack well I don't know if it's that machine or not yeah I don't want to tell you who she is because she'd probably get put in jail if you knew who she was but really yeah she'd get put in yeah I mean uh you know the AMA goes after people my goodness they go after raw milk producers and backyard chicken Growers and that's that is a true story that's a a true fact the going after ra there's an Orthodoxy that's really crazy today and of course you know we're Heretics and the Inquisition is very real yeah fooling patients with computerized magic eight balls I wonder if that's a same thing I I I I have no idea I I purposely try to not know all about it so the raw milk thing is a real craziness uh if You' ever seen the uh there's there was a story recently where they they arrested people like with a SWAT team for selling raw milk I mean they they they broke down doors and they had guns and they were wearing bulletproof vests and they're just there this a farm just milk and then somehow or another because we've made milk so toxic because of these environments that you're describing that you when you drink raw
milk on a normal you know Farm like your farm where the cows are very healthy I mean you could drink that raw milk and it's actually easily digested your body digested far more easy and a lot of people that are even lactose intolerant don't have a problem with the raw milk right and and the you know the milk from an industrial Farm isn't toxic I mean it it does have a lot of problems a lot of people don't realize that the Mayo Clinic uh was built I mean it started back during you know the early time of the century when um when cows were eating Brewery Brewery waste distillers grains because they were you know without Refrigeration um you you put they put the breweries and the C cows together and in these Urban sectors and you know they didn't understand bacteria and hygiene and sanitation all that stuff so the cows got you know um brucelosis and all these things pass it on to people and Mayo climi started putting cows back on pasture and feeding raw milk to their patients during the time when people were getting sick from Urban industrial you know swill fed cow milk and that's how Mayo Clinic actually started so so that's a um yeah I mean raw milk is a is a wonderful uh uh material but the cow has to be treated like a cow you know you have to respect her cow as a cow that's how you respect her cow that's how that's how you get you don't you don't get all the milkness of milk if you don't respect the cow of the cow right and and and so what's happened is that the industry is so filthy and pathogen you know and toxic that um you know and people fear food because they're the average person is fearful of food I mean the average person is far more uh you know informed about the latest dysfunction in the Kardashian household and they are you know uh what's going to become flesh of their flesh and bone of their bones at six o' I like how you pronounced it kardashan that shows you really don't have a TV I really like it no I don't I don't so whatever they are whoever they are um exactly I'm still asking that butt though but it's the butt yeah it's all it is it's all about it's all you need put a butt on TV and people will watch so the the point is though that uh people are so paranoid of food and and
ignorant about food that they fear food today people I mean we have customers call us up if I thaw a chicken in the sink will it get salmonella you know I mean there's a there there's a profound uh ignorance in our culture regarding food because we're disconnected from it and so afraid people ask for security from the government well the government says well let's see what should be our protocols they go to the industry for the answers and concoct an Orthodoxy that actually shuts out the antidote for the very problems they're trying to solve the idea that the government would have any solutions whatsoever to that is pretty ridiculous in the first place because who would be the person that would be an expert on this would it be the industry that that creates a lot of these problems we what we need is guy like you working for the government oh I wouldn't work for if if I got chosen to work for the government whatever agency I was in charge of uh I'd shut it down before Sundown what would you do if like let's say let's let's say there's some catastrophic failure of our our government and they just decide to quit and everybody just decides to go under and we need to figure out how to uh regulate Farms um what what would what could be done what could be done at this point point I mean you you're suggesting that the factory farms there's no retrofit they should be destroyed and you you better off building miniature golf courses over them how would we be able to distribute food to a nation of hungry people is it possible to use your methods the methods you use and your how big is your farm in Virginia well we own 550 acres and we lease another nine Farms so we're we're running 2,000 acres uh and and um we're producing we're producing a lot of food in fact you know we we surpass the county average in production on pasture by about a three-fold a three-fold amount which is pretty significant so factory farms given the same amount of space produce less yeah in fact I mean the thing that's important to realize when you look at a factory farm when the industry shows this picture of this big you know chicken house or this big pig Factory or hog or or you know cow feed lot um or or a or a a you know a square mile of strawberries in in uh California um what
you have to understand is those systems are not Standalone Islands when they say look at the efficiency the small footprint what they're not showing you are the square miles of of subsidized grain or petroleum inputs the land area that all that takes to sustain that little footprint and then the land that it takes to assimilate all of the waste stream from that so our system doesn't take one more um one more square yard of production than than the factory system the fact that we're doing um you know stackable synergistic symbiotic multipe Enterprises it's more productive but um but when you look at what we're producing even though you know at first glance the uneducated might say well it takes a lot more land to produce them this way actually you're seeing all the land just like when people say well it takes more people farming to do it your way yeah but you know what we don't have people fixing pollution areas we don't have people burying people with SEI and and and Mera uh we don't you know we're not making people sick from salmonella and ecoli are you with me I mean so so in Toto all we're doing is taking all the people that are currently trying to uh trying to triage the collateral damage of cheap food we're taking all those people and growing the food and all those jobs are coming back to the farm instead of being in you know in whatever um you know costly remedial programs they are so you are essentially a standalone system whereas when you're seeing a factory farm there's a lot of stuff you're not seeing that's required to make that thing run that's exactly right now we do buy Grain for our omnivores but we buy local GMO free grain no genetically modified organisms and uh and yes um you know the whole idea is to um create a carbon centricity so that we're not you know we're not shipping this stuff all over the place and when people say oh but a local can't produce it um Cornell did a fascinating study several years ago of New York they took every Metropolitan City you know itha Syracuse Buffalo Albany uh New York City and they took all the cities of New York and said could we produce the calories for these Urban sectors you know how much land would it take and what they found
was that every Urban sector could produce all of its calories within 30 miles so even in New York it could be Standalone self-sufficient except for New York City which if they went into New Jersey it became self-sufficient as well because New York's right on the edge of the you know right on the edge of the state and so um so a fundamentally integrated system rather than a segregated system becomes far more efficient in in the scheme of things becomes far more efficient than a segregated system with all this you know all this long-distance transportation because the ships are passing in the night that's what's happening you know Iowa produces all this food Iowa only eats only 5% of the food that's eaten in Iowa is grown in Iowa what and Iowa is the most fertile piece of land in the in the planet why because they're they're they're not producing food there's nothing to eat there you know if you want to eat you know berries and apples and things that has to be imported from somewhere else cuz the whole States and corn and soybeans this genetically modified thing is a real Hot Topic um it is genetically modified seems to me to be along the same lines of this factory farming idea is that you're you instead of looking at it in a comprehensive approach what you're doing is saying well we got a problem let's attack that problem with chemicals yes well it's it's fundamentally bridging it's fundamentally um overrunning a lot of natural barriers that are there in place to protect um to protect happening what is happening which is a um a mishmash of genetic material so you have a you know a salmon that's partly a pepper plant partly a you know a tropical herb and part Pig okay and um and and you talk about you mentioned allergies a little bit in the past the the you know when we were kids I didn't know anybody with a food allergy we didn't even know the phrase I never even heard the phrase okay and now it's it's ubiquitous what's happening is that we're getting all of this um this Franken food uh it's it's our our internal bacteria you know we've got three trillion beings in our insides and they're not capable of
mutating and um uh assimilating material as fast as our human brains can adulterate the food system and so what happens is we're sending down there um a bunch of foreign material what's this you know I can just see them talking you know let's have a board meeting here to see what that you know GMO corn is and so what happens is you know they can't assimilate it and so the other thing about GMOs is that it is hard to pain you know by Nature it's promiscuous so what you have here is a new life form I mean the only thing that that people have been able to do before now is a mule I mean sorry a donkey on a horse makes a mule but a mule is sterile it's almost like God says all right you can do that you know donkey on horse but that's it you know you're not going to go any more than that this is not mle's peas mindle was Peas on peas he wasn't Peas on tomatoes on pigs on monkeys you know it was it was within specie and so this is a um uh you know this is an assault on the sexual Plumbing that nature has to maintain genetic Purity and it seems like the DDT issue hasn't been factored in as far as the longterm effects that's right yeah the feeding trials all the feeding trials have only been like you know 60 days well 60 days is is nothing not only that but if you'll you know the probably the you know World expert on this is Jeffrey Smith who wrote seeds of deception uh and is the the the premier World GMO expert uh he points out that when you know when Monsanto was doing feeding trials for FDA on for example potatoes GMO potatoes they chose for the feeding trial geriatric rats well geriatric rats are already completely formed you you're not going to see any big changes in those in Scotland when the uh scientists there duplicated those studies with juvenile rats same feeding trials same potatoes same everything all sorts of problems developed cognitive ability brain fog they couldn't go through a maze um uh organ development kidney malfunction uh fertility problems I mean you name it had all these problems so you know one of the one of the problems with science is that it's very subjective you you can set up an experiment within your Paradigm you know Teddy Roosevelt used to say it's really hard to see it's really hard to get a
guy to see something when his paycheck believes uh uh depends on seeing something else that's a good way of putting it too and and I think that's exactly what's happened here that you you can set up you know experiments and and constrict the parameters whether it's length of time type of subject you know you name it you but you can set up the parameters of the experiment to to skew the results to not get a a a comprehensive eclectic view like the geriatric rats like the geriatric rats yeah that seems like dirty pool that's a that's a bad thing that they did yeah it's and it's they do doing this just for profit absolutely I mean there's there's a lot of money on the line a lot of money on the line um and so you know so so you know where are we going to go from here how how do we go from here and so you know when you ask well you know what what could you do all right we know this system's bad how do we how do we really you know move over here and um there are several answers I mean one is you know go underground you know just start buying the good stuff um gorilla type marketing but I think the main one is that what we need is a food Emancipation Proclamation we need a food Emancipation Proclamation to free the food system from the enslavement of bureaucratic Orthodoxy so that consenting adults and I'm choosing my words very carefully here so that consenting adults could make a voluntary choice of food choice the type that they want from the source that they want and if we allowed however many in our society 5% 10% 20% whoever didn't cont whoever wanted to opt out of government sanctioned Orthodoxy and say hm is there something better out here can I choose something different if anybody who wanted to opt out of the of the current industrial government Orthodoxy could do so you know voluntary consenting adults here you know we're talking about um the right of private contract if I want to if I want to come to your farm voluntarily no extortion here okay voluntarily look around smell around ask around and I want what you're
producing I should be able to get it when the government gets between my lips and my throat I call that an invasion of privacy and yes I do also believe that we should legalize all drugs all of them because the government that can tell you you can't smoke dope can also tell you you can't drink raw milk or or or or refuse to vaccinate your children or you know go down the line the fact is that the Orthodoxy is so convoluted now that it's perfectly safe and fine to feed your kids Coca-Cola Mountain Dew count chocula Cheerios and poptarts but not homemade shuder pickles raw milk and backyard butchered chickens isn't that crazy it's absolutely crazy and if we would free up I mean I travel a lot I talk to thousands and thousands of farmers I just talked to 200 Farmers up in San Jose this weekend you know and what's the limiting factor why is local food cheap why is our kind of food I mean cheap more expensive uh than it has to be why are we perceived as elius why isn't it more available why is it so hard to find Integrity food this is the issue and if we would free up those of us in the system that are ready to access our neighbors with kich and noodles and shuder and you know uh name your you know name it to free us mess up it would it would completely invert the entire food system in a year the entire food system as you speak of like when you're talking about the genetically modified organisms and you're talking about these companies that provide them like Monsanto there's a backlash against that now because of the information that's been released about the detrimental effects of them and you're seeing like in Brazil they won lawsuits the farmers won massive lawsuits against Monsanto and these um you know various GMO uh products that they've created say you're talking about Iowa and the fertility of the land in Iowa what what could what could possibly happen mean could those all these Farms that are set up to just specifically grow grains and a lot of them grains uh that are specifically grown just to feed livestock or make alcohol is that what they is that what it is too like well yeah corn you know all the alcohol um corn corn alcohol that's what uh most of the Farms well a lot of it you know all
right but go ahead massive amounts of money are invested in these systems what could they do I mean what could be done to change all that could those Farms be sort of turned around and brought to more of a a comprehensive approach to farming like you're prescribing what the delivery Stables do when the automobile came that's what we're talking about here yeah I mean think about that transition position MH um uh think about the horse drawn Hackney when the electric street car came I mean you're talking that that's the level of change here you're talking about massive societal uh uh uh change there will be some losers but you know what those guys have been making fun of me and calling me a biot terrorist and a lunatic and a you know a backwash biot terrorist yeah because our chickens could can you know commune with Redwing blackbirds and Indigo Buntings out in the field and then those wild birds take our diseases to the science-based environmentally controlled you know Factory chicken houses and threaten the planet's food supply all because we were so uh archaic and Neanderthal that we had our chickens running around into pasture has that really been argued absolutely you've really had that wow that's hilarious you Barbarian you let your chickens run Loos absolutely fact I had two Federal veterinarians when the last time we had an Aven flu outbreak in uh in Virginia back about 12 years ago um and they and they by the way they um exterminated landfilled 1,000 tractor trailer loads of Port of of poultry 1,000 tractor trailer loads of poultry within just uh about a 5count area of me wow all right did they then in turn feed that poultry back to other chickens uh after they killed it no no that was not because that was avien flu so they they actually landfilled or incinerated wow burned it up but see under our system you don't have any of that stuff so I mean a th trctor trailer loads is a lot of food all right anyway I had two vets there that that were part of the extermination uh federal tax Force both of them said that um that we are considered I mean they they came to visit because they'd read about us you know they oh we're here you know they came from Oklahoma or whatever uh we'll go see this place and both of them said that we are considered a Typhoid
Mary in in the in the community be be be because you know we don't we don't vaccinate we don't medicate and we don't you know uh we don't do all the Orthodoxy that the industry says you're supposed to do I mean that that's the Orthodoxy see that's the and and if you don't if you don't adhere to that and of course that then that Orthodoxy drives Insurance how does a farmer sell his product how does he get product liability insurance the insurance company says uh well we won't underwrite you unless you use best agricultural practices well the insurance company doesn't know anything about agriculture where are they going to find out about what's best agricultural practices they ring up the land grant University which is the Lackey of the industry and they say well you need this protocol of vaccinations this protocol of medications this protocol of chlorine this protocol of few and if the farm doesn't do that it's highrisk it's a highrisk farm you better not do it and so right now a lot of farmers like us are unable to get insurance because the underwriters won't ensure risky farming which is is which which goes against the Orthodoxy of the system because the insurance Executives play golf with the you know the uh the industrial a Executives play golf with the bureau you know the bureaucracy Executives it's all a big fraternity it's not a conspiracy it's a fraternity of ideas they've all drunk the Kool-Aid that is madness and it's incredibly frustrating because you're so transparent about your process and the benefits of your process when you're sitting out there in one of the videos that I watch you're sitting out there with these pigs these pigs are just hanging out they they come up to you like the pig got under your arm and you like put your arm on them it's like hey what's up yeah you know and they're just rooting around and and anybody that wouldn't see the benefits to that you have to be either you have to have a financial vested interest in not seeing it or you have to be insane yeah yeah you have to be insane uh know the best compliment I ever got was a young Chef young Chef came out he wanted to see the farm he was starting to buy our stuff and really liked it he wanted to come out see the pig so I took him up to the
pigs he says you know I he was a young guy he says I have never I've never seen a live Pig you know he he he cuts them up and Cooks them all the time but he never been physically present with a live Pig and he just got really quiet I just let him you know enjoy it for a little while and the pigs were you know gnawing on his Sho strings and just there and he and he finally said you know I don't know anything about raising pigs but I think if I was a pig this is the way I'd want to live and that's right you know in it resonates in our soul I mean if you have if you have a a conscience at all it resonates in your conscience yeah here's your pigs up here on the screen I mean these pigs are just chilling yeah they're having a great time they're not stuck in some disgusting pen where they're lumped in I mean there was a story recently of a farmer who they believe fell they believe he may have had a heart attack an older gentleman fell into a uh a pig a pen and was killed by the pigs right but I mean that's and everybody's like oh pigs are vicious it's the conditions that are vicious these pigs aren't going to kill anybody the these pigs come right up to you nuzzle with you man I've seen it they they will kill you if you quit moving they're omnivores you know oh yeah if you if you're dead if you're dead I I tell kindergarteners that want to go in and pet them I said absolutely you're welcome to go in and pet them just keep wiggling just keep wiggling that's hilarious they'll eat your toes first then your fingers and in an hour they'll be to your spleen you know so uh wow keep moving they are omnivores yeah and they are survivors they are they're very cool that's one of the interesting things about pigs is this huge problem with feral what we call feral Hogs because they're not a native species to North America and they don't really have any natural Predators um other than you know kotes which have sort of taken them on and mountain lions and all the other animals that we have in North America but the number one invasive species problem we have as far as like big animals is pigs well there again there again the problem it's a political problem it's it's not a it's not an ecological problem you know in
Europe they have feral pigs too but it's not a problem you know why because you can go out and shoot a pig and sell it to a restaurant you can sell it to a neighbor they allow you know wild shot animals deer and pigs to to go into Commerce I think the worry about that though is from a Sportsman's point of view that you're going to have people out there sniping and and uh poaching deer and all the really precious wild animals and and selling them to restaurants and there won't be any there for hunters um the thing is is nature has a way of balancing it out and when there's an overpopulation they're easy to get and then once they once they get harder to get you know then people then people get discouraged from hunting because they're too hard to get I would be more in support of that for pigs than the other animals simply because pigs breed all year round they'll they'll have several lit a year of many but whereas a deer will have one Fawn you know and they'll have a fawn or two and they'll have them once a year yeah well maybe you could control it with licenses just give people you know you can you can Harvest so many a deer so many a year whatever I mean there's a lot of ways to skin the cat the the the bottom line I'm getting to though is that when you when you prohibit a food source from entering Commerce you you you automatically um have the government manipulating a a uh a supply and demand situation and that that's the reality and so uh so you know the the people that are that are concerned about and you go down in some areas I mean yeah the the wild pig problem is a real it's a real land abuse problem they're having them in Suburban San Jose San Jose has people are having their lawns chewed up there was a big news story about it the other day where they showed these pigs running across people's lawns in this normal Suburban street they're chewing up their lawns they're resourceful and they're smart you know picture the smartest supposedly one of the smartest animals there is and and they are they're they're really uh they're really smart so so if we would if we would allow people to actually uh practice um consenting adult voluntary Commerce on some of these things it would it would then
incentivize um Innovation entrepreneurship and the antidote to all of the depressing things we've talked about mhm and and um and our our side then would rise and the other side would have to adapt they'd either have to down I mean there there's talk for example right now among the poultry industry of trying to go antibiotic free in 10 years and uh in order to do it they're going to have to greatly drop the the bird size in their houses and I know that there's a lot of research going into building these living compost uh bedding situations in these houses even in the poultry industry yes in in the poultry industry yeah I mean uh you know uh Denmark yeah Denmark made the change they outlawed um uh Factory pork houses years ago they've been fine they've gone to deep beded you know houses completely different situation and um and it makes a completely different living environment so you know you can um you can make those changes they're not they're not uh insurmountable and those changes though still are not where you're at you're you've got these animals moving around in this giant farm and you move your electric fenes from place to place what what's the the method like how do you get the animals to move like when you like you have them in one area for like a a day a day yeah how big is the area that you f i mean let's take cows I mean we we've gone as as tight as uh 400 head on two acres for a day I mean that's pretty tight tight an acre is a football field just for people trying to visualize what's an acre it's roughly a football field so you know imagine 400 cows on two acres I mean that's that's pretty dense all right yeah um but the beauty is that when you move them all the time like this they get very docel I mean you know they're root their routine and you incentivize it because every day at four o'clock when you go out and call them they're going to a new salad bar you know if every day at 4:00 a certain call Min there's a bowl of ice cream for you you know you'd get pretty you know used to that call as well and is that what you do you call them yeah we call them we don't heard them we call them what what's the call do you have a noise you make
more and so they hear that they know it's a little dinner bell yeah like it's like a dinner bell yeah and they just they just come right on mhm wow so uh then you set up this new you put the stakes down you set up this new area the fence is totally portable so you're essentially I mean inv Envision a field like a ladder and the permanent F the the edges of the field are the are the U the stringers of the ladder and the portable fences are the rungs so the permanence are there all the time and we simply move the rungs you know contract or expand the rungs based on how much grass there is how many there are in the herd you that sort of thing so it's it's a very artistic you know there's a science but there's also an artc to it a as we as we essentially give them one plate full a day and you alternate animals in these areas yeah so the cows go through first then the egg mobiles come in after them so after the cows are there then you push the chicken house in there you fence that in as well no that's not fence those chickens can run anywhere they want to they just they just hang around the Egg Mobile cuz that's where feed and water and nest boxes are so you don't have to fence them you don't have to fence them they they go out you know up to 200 yards and uh scavenge and scratch out Cow Patties and when it starts getting dark they come back in and it start coming dark they go back that's how we have it in our yard we we have we leave the door open at night and then at the end at night we shut the door they they know that I mean you know uh chickens are your chicken that's scared right I mean we we use the word slang you know chicken scared and so their in their instinct is to get somewhere secure for the night they don't want to just sit out on the ground at night so there're so the your your Coupe or the Egg Mobile that's a secure place and they naturally are drawn to that uh as as dark starts to go down so for them you don't have to worry about that you just move this giant structure that you've created which is very Innovative is this your design the structure yeah yeah see if you could pull up uh the Egg Mobile because it's pretty interesting see if you can find the video of it it was in one of those
uh uh polyface that's what you call it polyface Farm mhm is one of those videos right um it's your designed you just figured out how to stack them in there in this sort of way well essentially it's essentially it's a it's a chicken house on Wheels is what it is and uh so you know where you where you would normally make a chicken house for example yeah there you go uh where you normally make a chicken house uh stationer this is simply mounted on wheels on an axle like a trailer and you just hooked up with to it with a tractor and uh the chickens are all inside and you can move it you know up the public road or to The Far Side of the field or whatever and there's the guard dog uh the guard dog's with them as well and the guard dog keeps coyotes and Hawks and um things that like drumsticks for dinner he keeps those away we lost a chicken we don't know what happened I'm pretty sure it was a hawk something just scooped one up it just just V just vanished no feathers no nothing oh yeah they they uh they do that's for sure W you got a lot of chickens man oh yeah yeah that's a that's a lot of chickens that's a thousand chickens now those egg L laying chickens are those those are egg layers and you have different chickens that are egg laying chickens and different chickens that are meat chicken that's right it's like Dairy and beef uh Dairy you know dairy cows um uh grow you make a lot of milk beef cows uh grow bulkier same way with with uhh chickens layers layers have a they're genetically selected those breeds um they lay eggs and they have a physique more like um Kobe Bryant and the meat chickens have a phys have a physique uh more like EMT Smith okay great if you're gonna eat it you want an EMT Smith if you want to lay an egg you want a Kobe Bryant gotcha Kobe Bryant you egg layer he just called Kobe Bryant an egg layer um so it's so it's essentially just the breed of chicken itself yeah yeah that's right that's right I mean all these I mean uh Hogs I mean sheep some some sheep are known for their especially for their wool you know like the like the marinos you know they're known for their wool others are known more for their meat uh pigs some pigs are known for their fat they were called lard Hogs uh
back in the day we ate lard you know and and so they would get real fat uh other pigs are known for the length of their loin others for their maternal instincts you know big big uh litters so yeah all these breeds uh have different uh characteristics do you only have hens or do you have roosters as well we have roosters as well the eggs are not all fer we don't have enough roosters to fertilize all of them but we do have enough roosters so that you know we kids kids can watch them Crow and we can um I've had a lot of people say that uh that are um uh transcendentalists or you know that that um if if that if we actually come back as a different being they really want to come back as a rooster at polyas why well because they got you know about 200 hens for rooster it seems like you get outrun they would just start running you they would tell you what to do yeah they they they can get hen peeed yeah henpecked that's the other term chickens being scared and henpecked those are both real and heneks do pack man oh yeah they do some wild pigs in San Jose see this and they oh wow look at that yeah yeah he's getting he's getting food right there yep I mean they have a real problem now and it's just started to make its way up there a lot of people don't asso at California with wild pigs um what I was getting at was do you breed your own chickens do you do you we have just started we've just started we haven't in the past we've always gotten it from a hatchery but um what we've seen you'd find this fascinating I'm sure what we've seen is is in my lifetime and I'm not that old but I have watched the genetic viability of Li of animals of domestic livestock uh drop because of the props that we the crutches that we use antibiotics uh uh hot feed you know candy bar I call it candy bar diets um you know and unnatural feeding regimens and so um we have really seen the the strength the the the just the the viability of these farm animals plummet so our son Daniel uh when he was eight started with rabbits these are meat rabbits not pet rabbits but they're meat rabbits some friends had a couple Doe's and a buck and they uh they they couldn't take them to a new apartment where they were moving so they said you know would you like these rabbits well
he was kind he was eight you know eight years old is about the time to start an entrepreneur business you know and so he said I mean I started with chickens when I was 10 so I was two years late but uh he started his rabbits when he was eight and um so he said yeah I'll tell I wanted to raise some raise some rabbits so he did that and and if you read any like you know rabbit rearing book it'll say never give them grass you know don't give them that cuz they'll get diarrhea and die and of course um that's exactly what we found but but what he did he did he did what's called line breeding which is kind of a wild breeding and it took him five years to work through a lot of mortality and culling but in five years the rabbit started really getting strong uh vibrant you know big litters healthy now uh 24 years later they're almost Bulletproof and and what we've seen in the in the uh the genetic selection process over that time of not using any crutches and just letting it be kind of a uh you know a darwinian selection process has made us now want to want to do that duplicate that with our other animals and so we've we started last year with our chickens taking our oldest what we call Survivor genetics the oldest hens that are still laying maing them to the root roosters and what we want to do is just keep taking the oldest hens mating them back to the mating them to the roosters so we eventually uh create a Survivor genetic in other words that's the chicken that knew to hide when the hawk came that's the chicken that knew to get under shelter when the rain came that's the chicken that that didn't get flu that didn't get bug that didn't have a prolapse the first egg she did you know I mean I call it survivor genetics we're doing that now with our cows we're selecting our own bulls and and breeding from our own bulls and we're very excited about what this this kind of um wild line breeding type type of thing can do if you knock out all the crutches um the problem is that it puts you Crossways of the animal welfare crowd because they can't they can't abide the idea that if I have a sick animal I'm just going to let it die oh you know I mean you know they've been Bambi ited Thumper rided to death to where you know every every um you know
every dog and cat has to have a monogrammed LL Bean cushion in a airconditioned an room and that's that's the only way to care for animals and the problem is that we don't we're not going to get genetic strength if we don't let nature call out the weaklings that's the problem you know and so um so we wouldn't have the vibrant rabbits that Daniel has if we had started at the beginning oh let's prop these up with antibiotics so the weak ones can survive if everybody walks into the room wearing crutches you don't know who can stand on their own two feet right it's only when you start knocking crutches out that you find out who can stand it's that anthropomorphizing yes absolutely animals we want to we wouldn't do that with people of course no we wouldn't do it with people but these are animals and this is the natural world and this is why animals survive and if you don't do that they won't survive then you will have the weak ones breed and they'll develop all sorts of huge issues which could be argued essentially that that's happening with people but people have a lot of other things to offer our Innovation our creativity and our our ability to communicate and our thinking are what makes us uniquely human the animals it's it's simply their body their life their their existence and the way they interact with their with nature when when you temper with that when you tamper with that you're you're essentially you're prot in you're smarter than nature itself and that's ridiculous we can't we can show real clearly by what you've said today about factory farming about the development of these diseases that we're not smarter than nature we don't and that we there's no one could know everything and there's not one person that's smart enough to be able to see the whole big picture we need a lot of other eyes on this and we need a lot of other thoughts on this and when you start applying the same sort of you know compassion and that that we rightly do to human beings you start applying them to animals you actually wind up screwing the animals over yeah and you you create uh uh artificial fragility um you know sir Albert Howard who of course you know uh developed the scientific aerobic composting process in which his book is still kind of the icon of the whole sustainable agriculture
Community uh It Was Written in 1943 an agricultural Testament he says in there that when you when you use artificials in artificial manures in the soil and that's what he called chemical fertilizers artificial manures uh it makes grows artificial plants which make artificial animals which then make artificial people who can only stay alive using artificials that was in 1943 wow wasn't that precent yeah that guy was on the ball that was when it was just coming out yeah I mean how long had factory farming even been around then 20 years it was we were just I mean that was 1943 we were just really beginning to start using chemical fertilizers at that point now when they have the issue with large scale uh agriculture when they chew up all the minerals in the ground and they have to add minerals when they go over the top soil of American farmlands I mean they there was a a paper that was written about it God I can't remember the year but it was a long time ago I believe it was in the 1940s about the mineral deficiencies of top oil of top soil uh-huh um what what do they do about that now and does that same issue still happen in a farm like yours well uh yes absolutely I mean mineral deficiency is a is a major problem in nature fortunately uh Nature has a mechanism to remedy it um you know amazingly it's on site doesn't need a bunch of stuff brought in and the way nature remedies it is with an active decomposition cycle the way it works is when organic matter decomposes in the soil it gives off it exudes carbon dioxide all right when when things rot they give off carbon dioxide and so that carbon dioxide as it as it percolates up through the pores in the soil you know the Aggregates in the soil if you look at the soil in an electron microscope it really looks like a marsh you know there's there's all these little you know cavities and Aggregates and moisture and all these you know slogging weird looking you know bugs and cow looking things and you know predators and herbivores and it's it's an entire there there are more living beings in a double handful of healthy soil than there are people on the face of the Earth who that that's how alive it is okay who yeah that's crazy yeah so
so when that when that car when that carbon dioxide eases up through the through the the Aggregates in this in this kind of marshy uh soil it encounters H2O water all right in those Aggregates and when the CO2 hits H2O it makes carbonic acid now carbonic acid uh you know if uh if we took if we said this is a rock right here and um we want to find out how much zinc Cobalt meibum um you know aluminum whatever is in this rock we could treat it with lots of reagents we could use sulfuric acid hydrochloric acid you know we could use lots of different acids guess which one is the most efficient acid to use carbonic acid so so nature you know so so creation has this wonderful ability if there is if there is carbon decomposing in the soil and moisture that creates a carbonic acid to break out the minerals that are in the parent rock material in the soil if I went out if I went outside the studio here and picked up a rock and brought it in and said is that rock does it contain the same minerals in I mean is it is it the same thing as it was 2,000 years ago you'd say yes I mean that's the rock I mean it's you know there's not a big hole through it you know yeah that's that's the way it was and and so we have plenty of parent mineral in you know out here the problem is we don't have an active decomposition cycle how do you how do you destroy a decomposition cycle you do it when you don't feed the when you don't have a carbon a carbon Centric system and everything about modern farming is trying to get rid of carbon we've this is one of the things that we're looking at maybe if you've read the book Go Wheat Belly um about you know gluten and and uh uh those sorts of things is that it used to be uh when our grandpappies were um planting wheat wheat would grow um you know six feet tall it it was real real tall so that the the grain to stem ratio was whatever it was you know the ratio well the taller the wheat the taller the the stalk the less weight it can hold out there you know it it wants to fall over you know because go the skyscraper gets taller and taller right and so in
genetic in in genetic breeding and selection what we've done in the last 50 years is short and is is um selected shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter cultivars down to where it's a very short stem and that ratio has fundamentally changed which also affects the enzymes and the nutrient components of those seed heads but we can combine it faster and we can grow a bigger head on a smaller plant but guess what we also did we also deprived the soil of the carbon that the straw and the stock would produce from a given amount of grain that deprived the soil of the carbon injection That was supposed to come when we took the grain head off and now we don't have that carbon composition cycle wow and so the solution to that in the industrial way is just yeah yeah add mineral you know mine minerals somewhere else and and uh and add them but all that can be done in house it can all absolutely it can all be done in house the wheat issue is a is a big one with Americans today everyone wants to be gluten-free and you know I'm guilty of it too I I stopped eating gluten re recently and I found that almost immediately like I felt more uh I felt less bloated after a meal if that's a good term less sedated after a meal I just I didn't feel so tired and uh when I started reading about it I read that when wheat had been changed to uh to change the the size of it to make it more hearty it also became more difficult to to digest yes absolutely is it possible to get that old wheat back absolutely there are people doing it right now I mean Washington State the old um red red rif uh Heritage varieties absolutely you can they're they're available you can buy them yeah so how do you uh get bread that's made out of that well you uh I mean you can have your own flower Mill if you want to buy it you know by the bag that sounds like a pain in the ass well you know uh that that's where modern times are really exciting because we now have techn glitzy G Gadgets in our kitchens uh when people ask me you know what's what's the most important thing a person can do to advance the Integrity food movement my first answer is get in your kitchen and I'm not talking about hoop skirts Hearth cooking washboards you know Barefoot pregnant in the kitchen uh
I'm talking about embracing technog glitzy um gadgetry that we have today the kitchens we have today are not Grandma's kitchens you know I mean we've got we've got two faucets with running water you know one's hot one's cold uh I mean we've got ovens we've got Refrigeration we've got stainless steel we've got quein Arts we've got blenders and and cool little you know um uh you know Mills and flow Mills and stuff and so um so you know uh when when we buy we buy 25 pounds of wheat of uh you know flour at a time and uh you can absolutely get it you know as bulk and you can use this gadgetry and grind it up and you know bake your own bread in in in a in a computerized bread maker wow Grandma never had it so well it's never been easier to actually eat well than today ever that's interesting that's that's so true well if you have the money right that's the big knock on organic food you know that you know most people don't have the money to go to Whole Foods or let me address the money the way to address the money is to eat Whole Foods not processed foods um you I'm sure you're familiar with the movie food ink M and of course you know it's a powerful movie very profound but there's a real weakness in that movie where that you know that family that goes to Burger King and they buy that you know they buy a whopper or whatever they get and they buy uh it it looks like like a you know 200 ounce soft drink but you know whatever it is it's a big one and uh french fries and then they say they can't afford to buy you know produce vegetables the fact is that meal you I don't I don't eat it Burger King but anyway they're all the same um that meal costs no more than two whole pounds of our polyface Grass fattened Grass finished worldclass ground beef and there's more nutrition in half a pound of my ground beef than there is in that entire meal fast food meal so when somebody says they can't afford it the first thing thing I do is I want to grab them and say okay let's go to your house and here's what we're not going to find we're not going to find any fast food boxes or fast food receipts we're not going to find soda Alcohol Tobacco coffee widescreen TVs we're not going to find $100 designer jeans with holes
already in the knees we're not going to find uh you know Netflix People magazine you know name your thing I I you know um uh lottery tickets that's a big one okay you show me the house that doesn't have any of those things and then let's talk about price talk about what you actually can afford talk about what you what are your actual priorties because my position is we choose even even 95% of poor people still have most of those things we choose what we're willing to buy you you can buy Wheat by The Bushel you can make you can make $800 worth of bread from a $6 bushel of wheat what it means is you have to participate in the food system this is this is our our problem is not that it's not available or we can't get it or we don't know what to do our problem is that we want convenience we don't want to have to think we don't have to we don't want to have to plan ahead we don't have to want to you know plan menus we we want to just uh you know convenient spontaneity and you cannot have an Integrity economic sector of anything autom food clothes entertainment you cannot have an Integrity economic sector of anything when you so profoundly abdicate personal participation in that economic sector but it is more expensive when you go to a supermarket and you buy organic vegetables oh yeah yeah it is it is and some fol feel like they are better yeah are they better scientifically like if you get let me say this um uh I I don't want get you know Crossways of of every well I guess I might as well I might as well get Crossways of everything out there um in in my view you know we should just not eat from the supermarket don't eat from a supermarket where do you get your food oh you get it you you get it from Farmers Market you get it from a community supported agriculture a food buying Club a metropolitan uh food club uh you go to go to farms uh buy bulk I mean the way to deal with the price is buy it unprocessed and by volume which means that you have to recreate your domestic Larder you know we don't even use that word anymore Larder who's ever heard you that word but that's where all the food was 80 years ago if I came to LA and said where's the food in La it's not in a warehouse it would be in individual
larders in houses and So when you buy in in bulk uh and you buy unprocessed and you put your uh Sweat Equity in into preparing processing preserving and and packaging then you can actually save money over the processed counterpart that's incredible in other words you can get you can get top-of-the-line um uh local the best stuff in the world that's cheaper than the processed stuff in the supermarket I went to um the green markets in New York City arguably the most expensive farmers market in the country I asked my hostess I said would you do something for me could you take me to the vendor with the most expensive potato in America so she oh I know exactly who we need to go to so we went down the the the Stalls there and there was a vendor there that had about 20 varieties of potatoes they were beautiful he had them in a little little uh you know box cubbies you know in this beautiful wooden slanted display there were red ones and yellow ones and green ones and blue ones and all this so I looked through the boxes and I found the most expensive it was a it was a little heirloom Peruvian blue fingerling potato for $2 a pound that's expensive for a potato but you know you know what you know where most potatoes how most potato were being sold in New York City $4 a pound as potato chips we've got queas and arts we've got slicers dicers and Fry babies you could get the most expensive potato in a America and it's half the price of potato chips but potato chips is not food I mean it it is but it's not I mean it's a snack and people buy it for convenience if you get a real honestly goodness potato and slice it yourself and fry it in lard in a fry baby that is food it is food but what I'm saying is most people when they get it they get it as a snack and they don't have the time when someone buys a bag of chips they're not going to go to the store and get a potato and slice it and in this modern world that we live in I'm saying I know in this modern world so we should essentially go direct to Farmers and go to farmers markets whenever possible and you save a ton of money save a ton of
money Mother Earth News this issue actually has a um a a big spreadsheet where they did exactly that they have a whole bunch of uh items that they bought you know at the supermarket at the farmers market and and um I guess csas or something anyway it is profound the save going direct to Farmers uh can create it's it's it's amazing and buying volume and um you know and taking taking the middleman out of it that that's the thing is it possible with your methods and the way that you're describing uh farming and what you've done with your farm is it possible to feed this entire country that way oh no question not only is it is it possible it's actually the only regenerative way to do it because when you break break apart the when you break apart the feed from the animal from the manure and we could even include people in that as well when you break all those those those that are supposed to be um uh synergistic blessings when you break them apart the whole thing floats on a counterfeit cheap energy cheap oil and um and a a fragile house of cards that depends on you know um clever Pharmaceuticals staying you know one mutation ahead of the of the mutating bugs to to to function so the argument against what you're prescribing and describing is that what you have is sort of uh a beautiful small business model for creating a very ethical farm and raising animals in a very nice way but it's impractical when you're talking about feeding a nation of 300 million people but when but you're saying that not just the fact that you factor in when you farm your way the lack of sort of invisible costs that you get with factory farming the lack of all the other factors that you have to bring in like chemicals and antibiotics and all these different things that are just unnecessary completely but the actual volume of food the actual volume of food absolutely the actual volume of food is more in symbiotic places let let me uh and and and our kind of farming with portable infrastructure allows you to use nooks and crannies that currently aren't being used let me give you an example I mean let's take pigs as an example um we run pigs in the in the
woods and they eat acorns and bugs and you know weeds and things like that through the woods um and they actually you know eat the bugs that would attack the trees in the woods the trees are healthier the fact is that we have millions and millions of Acres of unused land there's not one reason for a single confinement hog facility in the entire country if we used our national forests our Bureau of Land Management you know pinion Pine in Colorado if we used mosquite in Texas uh um you know uh Appalachian hardwoods in in uh the Mid-Atlantic and South every place has millions of Acres where these pigs could be run and it does and you simply vacate the houses so um so the the truth is we are we are not beginning to leverage we're not beginning to Leverage The resource base that we have so what you're talking about is the resources that are untouched yes so the factory farm system that we have the amount of food that they produce in order to produce that same amount of food we would have to use more land we would have to use more areas that were not using now we would have to yeah but it would be good land use it's it's not it's not um harmful land use I understand but that land is most likely either owned by the State national Wild that's a problem too well yeah and then the other problem would be where would the profit be who would profit then if you're talking about national forests and you're talking about a private company that grows agriculture or grows farm animals in these natural Forest who would be able to decide who gets to use their animals and this right well when uh when Governor Tim Kaine uh came to visit our farm toward the end of his governance uh gubernatorial uh time in Virginia um he really got it I mean we went see the we went did all this you know saw all this and he he totally he totally bought into it he said so um you know what what can I do you know what what's the next step I said well Governor I said uh let's have a meeting next week at the at at the governor's mansion and iron out a lease Arrangement where polyface can um can run pigs in the state forests and keep all the trees from dying and of course you know he smiled and he knew he knew cerebrally that I
was exactly right because the Appalachian hardwood forests are dying and and uh they're dying due to lack of disturbance lack of disturbance in their ecosystem we don't have the Buffalo we don't have the fires anymore so they're dying due to lack of disturbance so we can absolutely bring those forests back to vibrancy um right now they're just sterile they're just you know they're just uh sitting there so they could be disturbed by these dist and so so his his understanding of ecology absolutely um mandated that he you know get his head around this idea but of course he grinned and laughed and we both realized I mean can you imagine what the radical environmental groups would do if you said we're going to start you know leasing um some of the state parks so people can grow pigs in them I mean it would be well I mean it's unspeakable well let's just forget about their arguments against an environmental groups or Peta or anybody who might have an argument against it if you had a clean slate and if it was your job you could design the uh the whole agricultural system of this country to feed America yes based on your principles oh easy no no question but we would have to use a lot of the land that's currently state land or national forests or do you do you know that right now the US has 700 registered dead zones riparian dead zones one is the size of New Jersey in the Gulf of Mexico those dead zones are collateral they are now they are now inhospitable to life I mean that's the that's the you know definition of a dead zone They are they were once productive areas you know Fisher and amphibians you know productive areas that are now inhospitable to life they are a direct result of overrunning our nest's ability to handle our um our mechanistic creativity and so the fact is that in North Carolina which leads the state in hog production if you didn't have a hurricane every two years to flush all the manure lagoons out to the ocean North Carolina would now be buried in hog manure that's the truth and so fortunately we fortunately you know we
get a hurricane every couple of years to flush North Carolina like a big toilet so it doesn't you know choke on its own waste wow so so you know so the idea of whose land are we using here let's talk to the let's talk to the displaced uh shrimp fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico and talk about displacement let's talk about land use are you with me when we start talking about the whole the the whole uh um land use issue our system actually actually um would eliminate all of this dead zone all of this inhospitable the desertification all the collateral damage we would actually have far more productive land than we do today because we're we're toxifying a very small part and and and um what you know that that toxic stream is uh killing a bunch of other land why don't we just be honest and say let's use it all in a healing fashion and we won't have any dead zones and it'll all be uh you know progressively healing that sounds like a better alternative to me so the only way to have these healthy environments these healthy growing environments is to have sort of a symbiotic relationship with all the various different types of animals and the various different types of plants is it possible to have acres and Acres of things like corn and wheat without animals roaming free and still have some sort of a healthy environment I mean can you grow a thousand you know acres of corn in a healthy way without having animals in that environment um probably the short answer is no but if you but but that doesn't mean you can't grow grain I mean there are now uh in Australia um they're really exper Colin CE there who has vented a term called pasture cropping uh has developed infrastructure and protocols for where you grow grain in perennial pasture uh without without much tillage so you don't you don't till the uh the blanket you don't till the vegetative blanket of the soil instead you use livestock as a as a pruner to prepare uh and even temporarily weaken the perennial uh grass plant right into to it you the annuals you know barley wheat Rye whatever and it grows beats out the
grass the grass stays subordinated in in the shadow so that when the grain dries down you harvest the Grain and you've already got a nice you know uh regrowth of uh green material underneath with without ever actually destroying the sod and uh that's being there are now 2,000 farmers in Australia doing this it's jumping now to the US uh it's a real hot uh technology um and it works so you know there are a lot of pieces to this first of all if you quit feeding herbivore's grain you tremendously reduce the amount of grain that has to be produced then you go to per that's a very good point that's a very very good point then then you go to a perennial and and you know at the top of the program we talked about these principles of nature you know one is animals move another is that nature uh nature likes perennials Nature has very few annuals actually nature thrives on perennials so uh a a productive regenerative food system should be concentrated on perennials not annuals to describe to people that don't know what the difference between those are well a perennial is a plant you don't have to plant every year an annual is a plant you have to plant annually okay every year so so grains um squash plants you know garden vegetables those are annuals um blackberries are perennials you know you plant them once you know trees are perennials Vines bushes grasses okay those are all perennials and so that is the basis of the of Nature's ecology is perennials not annuals realize that our a policy in the United States is to subsidize not perennials but annuals six of them you know wheat corn soybeans cotton sugar and rice all of those are annuals so our official a incentivization is to incentivize the very thing that destroys soil that's hilarious and it's also hilarious that we we insist on feeding animals grains just to get them fatter right and you know that fat being an unhealthy fat I I'm amazed every time I go to a nice restaurant and they try to offer me that Kobe beef stuff oh yeah like will you get away from me with that sick cow that thing is sick oh it's so it's wonderfully marbled no that thing's dying the thing's barely alive when you shoot it yeah that's right the LI
liver's probably swollen up so uh the point is that if we quit feeding herbivores uh grain we would we would grow way less then if we take the omnivores the pigs and the chickens and integrate them as salvagers like listen if every kitchen had enough chickens to eat its kitchen scraps I mean you know like get rid of the pet dog and put into two chickens right okay if every kitchen had enough chickens to eat the kitchen scraps there would not be an egg industry in the US not one okay this was the role of chickens what we do instead is we we send our our uh kitchen waste down the disposal or out in the garbage it goes to the landfill and the whole ecosystem is deprived of the of the biomass that's supposed to compost or digest and feed the next cycle of Life the problem is it's really tough to keep two chickens in an apartment H they don't take any more room than an aquar than an aquarium or a Geral two chickens yeah well they got to run with the whole idea they have to wander around they don't need they don't need a lot of room I mean if you if you had them uh uh 3T two feet would be fine for two chickens really yeah oh yeah yeah but what about foraging and all that good stuff keep them healthy yeah just just um just you know build build your box your container so that they can um you know so that they can get to about 12 Ines of compost underneath them and uh you just throw your scraps in there and they and then the compost you know uh feeds your little pot garden I mean pot well you know whatever kind of pot garden you have you know container gardens you mean contain containers yeah but I'm happy with pop Gardens too I mean you take that whichever way you want to do it all right anyway that becomes that becomes your um you know your your fertilizer for your uh house and what you do then is you turn your house instead of an ecological liability your house becomes an integrated part of an ecosystem asset well it seems that uh in in that sense that giant cities like New York where people are stacked on top of each other they they essentially are factory farming humans yeah that that's right that's right they are uh but there's there are a lot of these cool um ways now that we can you know we can do
that but anyway if you take the Pig and the chicken and you use them as their Salvage operation then you cut even more grain so you take off the the herbivore grain you take off the um the chicken grain and the pig grain suddenly you don't have much grain use and when you don't need very much grain you don't have to plow very much you don't have to plow very much then you can go back to a perennially based system and you can go back to the historic rotations where several years of perennials built the fertility for the one or two years of annual extraction okay now now you're on to a regenerating an actual healing soil building system so what you're prescribing or describing in fact is the way that our culture should have been engineered in the first place um but a lot of what we have here is sort of the the the momentum of the past that we have to deal with the m momentum of this factory farm establishment that was set up that's been providing us with food for decades upon de upon decades almost a century now yeah and and you have to understand you in context don't be too hard on the ancestors because it what what happened was was it got easier it got easier to grow grain and feed it that was that came earlier than electric fence and scientific composting systems so it was the electric fence that allowed us to suddenly um um free free these animals from supposedly uh efficient confinement programs and grain feeding programs it it was the I mean George Washington at Mount Vernon he always complained about the pigs he was a very meticulous Record Keeper and he always complained about the pigs because he could never get them all in at once you know because he just ran through the woods and they had their babies and you know you kind of well it's hog killing time it's fall you know let's get what we can and they they get what they and they could never get them all so he never never really knew you know for for a meticulous Record Keeper this was a nightmare right you know never could count all of his stock and um but but that's the way pigs were used pigs were just kind of they were just they were salvagers they were kind of nook and cranny you know operating they weren't fenced in no they
weren't fenced in because there was no fence that would keep them in how in the world can you ever fence a pig in with a physical structure even I mean this is before before uh metal wire you know the only fence they had were like you know uh uh Ricks of of um you know you've seen them around museums and stuff little you know uh Chestnut rail fences well a pig would tear that apart in a hurry so what they did they they farmed they they had an agriculture that was primarily exclusionary rather than inclusionary so instead of instead of having um I mean Thomas Jefferson wrote about this at monello in his farm book he had several um slave boys that their job was to keep the livestock out of the gardens so so the idea was that the livestock basically you know ran free maybe maybe with a herder or something or or you know there were some Fields but not that many and then what you did is you protected your you know your your garden you protected your berries and your you know your really high value stuff you protected that physically or with a fence some sort of a barricade because you simply couldn't afford to fence all the animals and control them so so it became it became a lot easier to um to grow animals faster with grain than it did with controlled grazing because you couldn't control the grazing so now the technology of electric fencing and and uh and composting has enabled us to bring the perennial pasture-based model on to a par with the grain model and the beauty of that is that the pasture-based uh non-tillage model is an Al is it's a soil building engine as opposed to tillage was a which is a soil destroying engine and so so all of this you know all this has to be viewed in context you have to you have to appreciate uh I tell people you don't crucify Grandpa you know he he he he was trying to do what he did but uh but there's no excuse today for continuing Grandpa's situation because we don't have we've got gr things that Grandpa would have given his eye teeth to have today yeah I think as we were saying before like we're on the momentum of this past that was set up that couldn't also probably couldn't possibly have anticipated the amount of population growth that we have today that's very
possible when you look at our future as a as a a country and feeding us do you do you have hope do you do you think that people are coming around people are certainly more aware where their food comes from now than ever before do you see changes on the horizon I sure do and um yeah I'm a I'm a pretty encourageable Optimist uh overall I don't think though that the changes will be um gentle you have to understand if what I've described in this program became um normal it would completely invert the power position Prestige and profit of the entire food and farming industry that's a big ship to turn around and they're not going to go gently into the night and so that's why we're seeing the backlash of the SWAT teams you know coming in raiding people's freezers private food clubs we're seeing an increasing backlash the the food safety modernization act uh you know proposed that uh you know you basically couldn't use compost to fertilize vegetables uh we can't have animals and uh produce on the same Farm uh you know we're going to Outlaw uh outdoor flocks of 3,000 chickens or more uh I mean there's there's a there's a huge push back from from that Orthodoxy and um and yeah generally you know if you study collapse or guns and germs or 1493 or whatever uh what you find is that major societal change generally doesn't happen you know people don't just wake up and say I think I want a different Society you know it it usually follows some major you know major thing and uh I mean you know the the the transition from draft power to automobile um was incredibly disturbing you know in America uh and and I I think that that if the industry let me give you one more little uh story I spoke last week I'm getting ready to to go to the Netherlands and do a week of seminars in the Netherlands I spoke to their one of their um top uh a journalists uh this week did an interview by phone and he said that the previous week he had just interviewed the CEO of senta which is the European counterpart of Armon Santo and several years ago they adopted a plan uh a a Target that they would increase productivity in grains the grains that they were working on by for uh 20% by
2020 you know 20% by 2020 has a nice you know ring to it well there're several years into that plan he said for the last 15 years it's been totally flat nothing we can do nothing we can invent nothing we can do has been able to change grain production at all for the last 15 years what we're seeing is what Joel Arthur Barker said when he wrote the book paradigms 40 years ago introduced the word to the world he said one of the axioms of paradigms is that just when they appear to have ch achieved Perfection they're on the brink of collapse and the industrial food system has promised disease free famine free you know uh um paradise and now with GM Mo and there there are a lot of people that are really pumped up on their hubris who have bought into this notion that we're going to go into some Paradise Nirvana only to find out oops um GMOs are causing spontaneous abortions and uh infertility oops is that true I mean where's that been established Don Huber I mean have him on your show Don H he's a professor in ameritus from Purdue University and he's showing the direct relationship between uh or or have Jeffree Smith on uh but the direct relationship between uh glyphosate which is Roundup which is which is the which is the herbicide that's now doubled in use since GMOs came out that was the number one uh thing um and and there are Absol absolutely uh in the last year see we're we are in our 15th year with GMOs remember it took 14 years to establish the DDT relationship with you know infertile frogs and and eggs that wouldn't hatch we're now 15 years last year there were something like 74 studies around the world imputing not only the claims but showing harmful side effects collateral damage of GMOs the the the the idea that g GMOs are actually more productive is pretty much universally debunked now they simply have not shown a productivity increase and so what I'm getting at is that the industry has continued to Peg uh the future on this thing and present this this kind of uh um you know argument this face
that all is well man we're we're getting ready to perfect everything it's going to be you know it's going to be a new day in the morning right and suddenly we see all these studies we see these direct SCI causal uh links collateral damage we see you know one in four pigs right now in the industry you know is dying from viral uh we see these things we see you know uh uh leria Campa abactor um salmonella Eola all these new Latin squiggly words you know food pathogens a ISM on the increase my take is that we are just about ready for nature to say you know you've you have bat you have taken enough shortcuts now I'm G to bat and and and it follows Barker's idea that all paradigms at the point of perfection are on the brink of collapse when they're presented as perfect that's when they're on the brink of collapse I hope people are listening to you I I know people on the podcast are listening to you but I hope people out there in the world of Agriculture are are listening to you I know there's a lot of blowback uh against you but I I I hope people are taking into consideration all these things you're saying is there's so much logic to your words and there's so much wisdom and so so much research done that it it just it's um it's a very puzzling situation for someone like me who knows very little about it other than talking to you and reading watching documentaries it's it's a very strange time it is indeed and and and that's why I encourage people to um you know to take their Recreation entertainment budget of time and time and money and and start to uh participate in the food system go visit a couple of farmers you know every single Community is surrounded by really Integrity Farmers now they're everywhere they're everywhere there is not a community in the country uh that is devoid of really highquality Integrity food many of them are wanting to farm full-time you know and they need like 10 more customers or 20 more customers to tip them over so they don't have to commute to town with the town job to support their Farm addiction MH I implore Urban people you know go to one less movie go
to one less uh whatever you know Opera bro whatever um but but invest in this in this Integrity food um idea and you will hear Farmers say the same things I'm saying they'll use you know and you'll be able to see it with your eyes you'll be able to you'll be able to taste see touch you will sensually connect with your ecological umbilical and that's a good place to be I love the term Integrity food too that's a it really is a great term yeah I'd love that you throw that around and I I I think what you're offering uh as far as advice is fantastic encourage people to go to these farmers markets connect to these people that are growing food in this way and I think people are most certainly more aware now than ever of where their food is coming from the term organic I mean never even heard that a couple of decades ago when it comes to food it was just didn't exist nobody talked about it nobody talked about GMOs nobody talked about anything um all you know the the 14 plus years that we have had GMOs have been this massive series of debates and denials and you know but I think people are more aware of it than ever before and I think a lot of it is because of people like you so thank you very much and thanks for coming on here it was a really interesting conversation I really really enjoyed it and I really appreciate all of your knowledge and the fact that you you you expressed it with so much passion it was really fun thank you it's been a privilege to be with you please it's been an honor Joel Salton please follow him on Twitter ladies and gentlemen uh he is uh the author of give your books out what are the the names of your books well there's nine of them right now but um the ones that that you know that people need to know about would be uh folks this ain't normal um as well as the sheer Ecstasy of being a lunatic farmer um perhaps my favorite is everything I want to do is illegal holy cows and Hog Heaven uh you can Farm the entrepreneurs guide to start and succeed in a in farming Enterprise uh the latest one is fields of farmers uh mentoring uh interning partnering and germinating tomorrow's Farmers so um yeah there's good good stuff there beautiful Joel Salon ladies and gentlemen J OE LS a l a t i n on Twitter
uh thank you very much sir thanks also to our sponsors thanks to lumosity.com go to lumosity.com Joo click the start training button and uh get your learn on folks thanks also to stamps.com go to stamps.com enter in the code word JRE and get your $110 bonus offer which includes a digital scale and up to $55 of free postage thanks also to on it.com go to o n niit t use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements Thursday night I will be uh at the Filmore at the Jackie gleon theater with Tony Hinchcliffe uh in Miami Beach Miami Beach it's Miami somewhere in Miami Miami Florida I don't know exactly where it is but Joe rogan.net go there find all the dates and uh I'll see you guys soon much [Music] love