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Hello friends and neighbors that's that's the nice way of doing it this episode of The joean Experience is brought to you by Legal Zoom with Legal Zoom is a way that you can deal with a lot of legal [ __ ] online without actually leaving your house instead of going to a lawyer's office making an appointment paying them a bunch of money you can be drunk and naked and still do legal things as long as you're not too drunk that you can't click the right things but you can start an LLC you can incorporate for just 99 bucks you can set up your family with a last will for just 69 bucks or get a living trust power of attorney and more Legal Zoom gets the job done right nine out of 10 customers would recommend the service to their friends and family and when remember when we talk about N9 out of 10 you got to always factor in the fact that at least one out of every 10 people is a [ __ ] idiot think of that and legal zoom's pretty good that way they also have an A+ from the Better Business Bureau that's pretty sporty sounds good and if you panic Legal Zoom can connect you with a third- party attorney and you know they can set it up so that like if you're on the way and you're in the middle of filling all the stuff out you're like oh my God I'm going to jail Legal Zoom will hook you up with a lawyer they can clean up your mess but you don't have to worry about it virtually everyone can do it um on it was incorporated with Legal Zoom Brian formed uh if you hear I can't breathe so good my nose is kind of Stuffy I have a a tiny bit of a cold today just a tiny bit so if it sounds like I'm breathing weird that's where that's coming from uh Legal Zoom uh is not a law firm but they can connect you with a thirdparty attorney and provide you with self-help Services that's like lawyer speak right there notice that part it's funny everything else on the the page is like normal print that part's bold and covered in yellow cuzz we live in a strange time ladies and gentlemen No One Believes anyone and you get a special discount from listening to this podcast make sure you enter Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more Savings in the past 12 years over 2 million Americans have used Legal Zoom and they've saved a ton of money go get yourself some Legal Zoom ladies and
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it's actually enjoyable I would do it if it had nothing to do with my brain if it didn't help my brain but I know it does help my brain so it doesn't make any sense would I really am I just talking [ __ ] I I enjoy it though go to lumosity.com Joo that's lumosity.com Joo click the start training button and start playing your first game that's lumosity.com Joo it's really interesting and I'm I'm really excited that someone came up with something like this because Chris uh Maguire was good buddy of mine used to have a program for his uh he had like one of those little Nintendo game boys or some [ __ ] and it had a program in it that was designed specifically one of those little handheld jammies and it was design designed specifically for brain games and I was always thinking wow I need something like that but I'm not going to go out and buy one of those stupid little game boys just to get your brain games so I never did but I do lose use use Lumosity and you should too lumosity.com Joe we're also brought to you by on it.com that's o nni t a human optimization website yeah man I have a hard time breathing out my nose no no no I'm okay I'm just I'm I'm I'm right now I'm not sick but I could be you know what I'm saying like I'm battling battling I'm fighting it back on it.com is uh like I said a human optimization website and what uh Aubrey and myself try to do with on it is provide you guys with all the stuff that we found that we use that we enjoy things like strength and conditioning equipment like kettle bells and battle ropes things that just provide an awesome workout steel maces um they look like weapons but they're not what they are is this weird offset weight it's a long metal pole with a big ball in the end of it it's very difficult and weird to move around and when you move it around you develop all these weird muscles functional muscles muscles that work in an everyday situation and also it helps your balance it helps your coordination what I'm interested in when it comes to strength and conditioning things are all things that improve athletic performance things that you find when you watch uh mixed martial arts Fighters do their training routines like when they do their
strength and conditioning routines they very rarely do traditional weightlifting activities you'll see a lot of battle ropes you'll see a lot of kettle bells you see a lot of things along those lines so that's the kind of stuff that we try to provide we try to provide things that actually help the body move as a unit because as people have gotten a deeper and deeper understanding about strength and fitness one of the things they've realized is like things like curls like bicep curls they don't make any sense like you don't really do that in the wild you don't ever just pick something up only with your bicep you would use your whole body and in using your whole body you make everything strong and using only an individual muscle you have you run the risk of imbalancing yourself any of those things that you do do any kind of training exercise you do especially lifting weights please go if you can go to a trainer go to someone who knows what they're doing so you don't get injured it really sucks getting injured when it's just out of ignorance so if you're about to Embark and any kind of weightlifting routine you're like God damn it Joe Rogan I'm tired of being a weak [ __ ] I'm about to get it together start out really light you get a lot of [ __ ] done I mean if you haven't done any workout at all and you're really serious about it find out if you're serious about it but don't even go to a gym do body weight squats push-ups and sit-ups that's it just write down how many you can do just do them till you can't do them again and then write it down and try to improve that number and do it for a few weeks and then blow your money on the gym because you know what sucks signing up for a gym and then not doing [ __ ] then that money just gets taken out of your account every month and you're like I'm weak I'm weak and lazy anyway on it.com o n niit t we sell all sorts of um supplements and uh Foods as well and uh by Foods I don't mean like groceries but we have thought about doing that too the idea of uh combining or working in conjunction with uh local farmers that farm organically is very exciting to us we've talked about that several times we're trying to figure out how we could ever actually do it um but that might be in our future just uh
connecting you maybe to local farmers connecting you to uh Farmers that are raising their beef grass-fed and in a very ethical way F farmers who are raising free range chickens so you know you're not buying your chickens from prisoners little prisoner chickens that's our concern what we're trying to do it on it is just connect you with everything that we find beneficial in our life hence the term human optimization everything that we find that improves cognitive function that improves mood things that that'll improve your immune system things that are just whatever we find like what's a good digestible protein hemp protein great where can we get the best hemp protein Canada it's the only place okay what's the highest grade this stuff let's buy that that's our attitude at on it and if you use the code name Rogan you will save 10% off any of the supplements the supplements the the weird ones like new mood people like wait a minute there's a supplement for your mood yes it's been known for a long time that 5htp can actually improve your mood your mood it actually helps your body produce serotonin and new mood create um contains five HTP and also con contains L tryptophan which also converts to 5 HTTP it's really fascinating stuff um and I might be wrong about those things that I just said how about that I mean I don't really know [ __ ] do I know I know what I've read though and I know what what happens when I take it if you're concerned you're like what if this is [ __ ] here's the deal at on it you have a first 30 pills you have a 90day money back guarantee 100% you don't even have to return the pills just say this didn't work and you get your money back the last thing body wants you to feel is like this is a bad deal this is a bad situation try it once you don't like it get your money back who cares but if you do like it we will promise you that we will sell you the best quality ingredients that we can find and being able to do it and distribute it from one place like on it does allows us to put together combinations that you're just not going to see the the the kind of dosages in Purity that you're going to get from onic products and a lot of other ones because it's just not cost effective so we have an advantage in
that that we just sell it online like that so if you're interested check it out use the code word Rogan and you will save 10% off any and all supplements okay AER liion is here cue the music podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day hey Amber Lion last time we spoke on a podcast was 2 months before the world was supposed to going to end it was right was that big uh December 21st 2012 scare that everybody was so terrified about uh you know we had people telling us for sure some change was going to happen I had Daniel pinchback on the podcast he told me for sure I go for sure something's going to happen December 21st 2012 was absolutely without a doubt all markers point to that okay and here we are we are still alive nothing's changed nothing's Chang have him and been like um I don't want to be mean I like that guy I don't want to be mean it's just uh you know it's silly it's silly to think that you're going to be the first guy ever to figure out how the what's going to happen you see it coming nobody else does you see it coming it's super easy if you're like a ray CW guy and you're um super scientific and very technologically in tune and you know what the latest Technologies are so if he makes if Ray kwell makes a prediction about the future you got to take it into consideration he's predicted a lot of things predicted the internet search engine I believe he had something to do with speech to text he he had a part in creating that so that guy I believe but when you're a hippie writer like Daniel pinchback and you telling me that it's going to be the end of the world I love your work man don't get me wrong I love that guy but I'm going to take it with a gra I should be really fair here because he did not say it was going to be the end of the world he did not at all he thought that there was going to be some sort of a paradigm shift and by the way he might be right I'm all just talking [ __ ] here because like who knows I mean maybe shift did take place we're just not quite aware of it yet you know maybe it'll be looked at in history like the French Renaissance like when did you know when did uh the Inquisition end exactly you know did do they feel it by the day you know when did uh World War I when it finally did end when it was dday
when did the Dust settle when did everybody realize what an incredible insane impactful moment they had just live through it probably takes a few years you know so maybe something happened internet wise in December 21st 2012 we're just not aware maybe that was when the NSA really kicked it up a notch you know who knows I mean maybe it was something it's just it seems like no one ever really predicts the future of course not and I believe that 2012 was a was symbolic for an evolution of Consciousness that we're going through that we're finally starting to end this madness as a species and and evolve to a more conscious species uh that's more aware I I just know even since the last time I did your podcast Joe just how much Awakening has happened across the country I remember when I told you on the podcast about how I suspected that potentially my phone had been tapped or that the government was looking through my phone well at the time people around me thought I was crazy and paranoid but now we have the NSA Revelations that wait a minute this really is happening there's a reason why your phone keeps shutting back on and you you may be in some foreign country but your geot tracker is working perfectly even though you don't have sales service which happens to me a lot it freaks me out but um but above all I think that we are shifting and and people are Awakening uh at this point I think you're right I think Daniel pinchbeck's right and I I ow an apology I just was too ignorant to see the shift yeah no I think there's most certainly something's going on and I think a lot of it is that younger kids today uh they have not been inundated with the same sort of propaganda that we grew up with and they're getting the internet you know from day one and they the the exchange of information the way it's done today it's not just more accurate than ever before like like you know like someone tells you something stupid and you go what let me Google that and everyone Googles it and then that ends nonsense it ends a lot of nonsense conversations between friends that would have gone on for days and days and days when I was a kid when I was a kid you you had to go get a [ __ ] encyclopedia if you wanted
to figure out whether someone was full of [ __ ] and you had to go through the encyclopedia and then you had to memorize it and quote it you couldn't just pull your phone up and stick in their face and go shut up dummy you don't know I remember that I had those encyclopedia britanicas we'd get like 12 episodes A through Z and and just have to pour through those we go door to door remember they would go door to door and try to sell them to you yeah we were the ones that bought them I grew up in the middle of the country we were suckers for all the door-to-door solicitors door too solicitors are so weird a charismatic person who's really good at being slick and bullshitting you knocks on your door and sells you some [ __ ] and tries to convince you to buy some [ __ ] like you don't even you're not even in the store they're sending these creepers all around the country just knocking on people's doors and being slick selling you vacuums and [ __ ] or or trying to save your soul those are the best those are yeah selling you their cult yeah when you're sitting in the living room you know just relaxing and then someone knocks on the door telling you everything about your life is wrong and you need instant savings that only happened once uh in my whole life and it was when I was a little kid and I I remember I think my grandfather was home I think my grandfather was babysitting me and my sister and uh someone came to the door God it was hard to remember but I remember it was like nope sorry get out sorry thanks thanks bye and they were so insistent just so foolishly insistent you know wanting you to know if you don't know about this man you're you're going to miss the end of the world they're predicting the end of the world it's just another 2012 it's another you know when those uh crazy people in uh San Diego all put on the Nikes and kill themselves cuz they thought the hail Bop Comet people remember that yeah I remember that that was the leader who had the uh he was bald and he looked very alien-esque yes it I forget homeboy's name but yeah he was definitely a creeper I can't believe people followed him I me just based on his looks he he creep me out you know well he was uh I you know I mean look if he could Romos isn't the most normal looking dude either but you know you
listen to him and you hear him talk and you realize this guy is about as real as it gets the I I would love to hear what this hail Bop dude sounded like you know maybe he was slick as [ __ ] maybe he's a really good door to-door salesman you know he can't didn't he get them to castrate themselves oh my gosh I think they castrated themselves too or at least one of them or a couple of them did I think he uh felt like sexuality was uh imprisoning it was probably some gay [ __ ] going on he was scary how how quickly people can become sheep and listen to something like that like actually castrate yourself we say this but maybe he's correct there he is there's the Heaven's Gate maybe he's right name Marshall Marshall you silly man yeah um who knows maybe he was right maybe they're all on another planet right now we're the suckers maybe they're living in Paradise you know we don't know we just see their shells with their Nikes symbolic Nikes and I I never believe that we get the true story of what was going on uh from the government or from Authority so you never know maybe there was something more to it I don't know I don't think the government they made up the castration thing that is possible right they do [ __ ] like that have you ever been a part of a a story where you absolutely know when you were working for CNN was there anything where you're like I know that that's not how it happened I know it what they're saying on TV right now is nonsense yeah for sure uh it happened a lot of times I I think that especially across the media in general a lot of stories are just dumbed down to the point that they just you lose the real essence of the story and um and that happened for me uh in the situation of Bahrain I talked about thoroughly on your last show but um but sometimes I would see them reporting things on air and and had watched documentaries that they did and it was a stark contrast the complete opposite from what I'd seen on the ground what did it feel like the first time you ever saw like [ __ ] the first time you ever knew like I'm sure in the beginning when you first started being a reporter you're probably very excited about the prospect you're working for CNN oh my goodness you know this is going to be amazing I'm going to do some hardcore
investigative journalism and countries what the first time you saw some [ __ ] what were you like what was your thought uh I I just was so let down Joe uh because I was it just was like taking your dreams and just crushing them uh one story at a time and that's kind of how it happened to me there it just it wasn't like one big incident happened but there was a little bit of censorship with each story over and over and over to the point that I realized that the mainstream media was just misleading the people and I was Bec BEC a cog in the machine and so I'd gotten into journalism to help people and try to change this world but instead I was actually helping give this station credibility and helping spread what I believe to be lies and and that's just a real just a devastating uh moment and it caused me uh a lot of stress over the years for sure I'm sure um it's is it a situation where the news just becomes any other business any other organism any other thing that wants to grow and stay alive and the only way to do that is to touch as many bases as you can spread out as far as you can and collect as much money as you can and somewhere along the line you have to you have to make some deals exactly and I I think you hit the nail on the head Joe and I I think what's going on is that a lot of these news outlets are like you said corporations and and their main goal is to make money and and that's what was happen in the case of CNN they were taking money from different governments Pro us governments worldwide in exchange for producing these documentaries that made the governments look good it was it was propaganda and um and bottom line was was to make money also I think there's other forces at play uh trying to kind of keep a a pro us uh agenda it at many of these Outlets as well wow um so you leave that you write your book which is excellent we have uh we have a copy wait it's back there we had so many books on the desk we had actually you're inundated literature but uh uh Molly crab apple did the cover right didn't she have something to do she did some art inside the book yeah Molly is such a talented amazing artist it was really an honor to be able to have her work yeah we had her on the podcast she was really
cool too she's she's free you know like she's just when she talks like she's not in hindered by she's just free she is who she is and what she's really talented really interesting art too very you know she's one of those uh artists where you see like one of her pieces and you almost immediately recognize it's her CU she's got that very unusual distinct style those faces that she draws she has this very unusual and like um compelling style and I like that she uh adds politics into her art she's not scared to take that jump so much art has been you know music movies everything has just been dumbed down in order to please these corporations and Molly is really joining you know several artists and sticking her neck out there and willing to uh criticize people through her art and criticize the system yeah and sort of expose things that she doesn't doesn't like yeah it's cool it's cool that so you write this book you you put the book out and um you you did our podcast and during the podcast we had a conversation about psychedelics yes and um I mean I've had a lot of conversations with people about psychedelics it's a question that people ask all the time and I'm I'm I'm really fortunate to know a bunch of people know the actual answers to those questions so you not I um have this conversation and you you say okay let me find find out what the fuss is all about and you get on a [ __ ] raft and go down to the Jungle like you like Dove head in I've literally been tripping around the world for the past year that's so crazy so before the podcast nothing nothing the worst I had done which not even worse because it's medicinal as we know but it was like smoked a joint of marijuana in college uh cuz I grew up in the midwest show and we were fed talk about propaganda we were fed propag Anda from day one about just say no to drugs and um I even remember my grandmother taped this episode of Oprah where uh this scientist was on talking about how MDMA eats holes in your brain it's later been debunked and that was proven that the diagrams the scientists showed were just showing cerebral blood th uh flow through the brain and the MDMA isn't actually harmful but I mean that's the kind of propaganda we were fed constantly and I remember my grandma would tape all these shows on 2020 and
all these new shows and bring him over to the house and force me to sit down and watch all this anti-drug propaganda so I Associated all drugs is being evil and um just bad for you and and naughty yeah it's funny the way you describe that that's the way to describe the worst I ever did with smoke a joint like it's the the knee-jerk way of approaching it the worst I ever did so now I have to just completely retrain my thought system because I've had 30 years of of this propaganda and um and I've realized Joe that we are horribly mistaken in a lot of situations in this country when it comes to labeling things medicines vers drugs and a lot of uh substances and natural plants that natives have used as medicines for thousands of years extremely effective medicines are being called drugs and being labeled as schedule one substances and it's just really unfortunate it's unfortunate and in a lot of ways the people that have never experienced these things it's impossible to understand without trying it and I don't blame you for being incredulous I don't blame you for being skeptical and you should be people who are skeptical are really important because it puts out the debate and whether they're correct or whether they're incorrect it's always good having a bunch of smart Minds looking at it from different directions trying to dissect it and a big uh a big part of our dissect thing when it comes to our culture is our law system our legal system what's legal and what's not what should you be allowed to do what should you not be allowed to do and we have to figure out what it is we're going to allow to influence that legal system because if it's corporations and people that are trying to protect profit man you're going in a weird [ __ ] Direction because guess what there's profit in that other stuff too you just you dummies just haven't tapped into the Psychedelic profit there's profit in what's going on in Colorado right now is they're starting to realize oh [ __ ] there's profit in this duh people love it you you you just think that the only way to get money is by selling [ __ ] pills that you make what you're doing is being a hater and you're trying to hoard the market you're trying to control all the drugs and there's some good drugs out there that are pharmaceutical drugs
there's just fantastic medications that have helped people with all sorts of ailments but that doesn't mean that you with your fantastic drugs that Aid all these people should be able to stop natural things like that's crazy and that's where ah as a culture we got to put the brakes we just it's not saying that pharmaceutical companies are bad because they're not they're great pharmaceutical companies have provided people with medications that have vastly improved their lives like Viagra there's a lot of people out there that just wouldn't have had sex 20 30 years ago it was it was over and then like a old pitcher that some how or another summons up the courage to get off the game and dust off his jeans he's back in there you know look there's there's medication that's a bad too there's medications for people that have actual real diseases not just can't get boners but you know there's there's really important medications but as a culture if there's one thing that when people take it it it almost universally gives them A New Perspective almost universally makes them more aware of their actions more objective more sensitive more it calms them it gives people a sense of Peace about leaving this life it gives you a sense of I I don't think we know what we're talking about it gives you a sense of I think there might be some other [ __ ] besides this and that sounds that sounds just like the Heaven's Gate cult that sounds just like uh anybody else that's telling you that they they know something that other people don't know most people are immediately skeptical and they should be but this isn't nonsense this is some medicine that helps human beings evolve and it's been here for thousands of years and it's one of the measures as to how weird we are today one of the reasons why we're so chaotic why we live on this momentum of this incredibly ignorant past and never stop to analyze it and change it one reason is the lack of these psychedelics it's like we're missing vitamin C and we have scurvy I mean that's really what our culture is it's mad and Looney because it's not looking at itself exactly Joe and I I think what's going on is that a lot of us have bottled up trauma throughout our lives through childhood especially that's when a lot of people get the footprints of trauma
on their soul and and just just uh through PTSD car accidents dangerous situations you're in and you keep this trauma bottled up inside of your body without releasing it and it leads to this Collective Madness and and I think what we're facing as a society is the lyic system of your brain is the part of your brain that it deals with emotional processing and that's what psychedelics are fantastic it actually re um uh leading to neurogenesis restructuring the lyic system helping people get rid of all of this trauma and and really I think that the cause of most of this madness is a collective lyic system malfunction in society right now and I I believe that Wars fighting all all of the environmental destruction is just a symptom of this lyic system malfunction and I think if we're able to actually get in to the core of our insanity and all these mental health disorders in society then we'll be able to really evolve as as a species but I think that like you said the key to that are are these psychedelic medicines because for a lot of people they're not able to actually overcome that trauma without without the help of of psychedelics I think you're you're absolutely right and I think that this um this weird world that we live in right now where we make these incredibly beneficial things that don't kill anybody illegal um it's starting to come to light now and um maybe that's what the 2012 thing was maybe we just don't realize it because we're a part of it but I think that people are so much more aware of how bizarre and finite this experience is and how many people are running around this experience acting as if everything's normal well this is not normal nothing's normal we have Madness at every turn we're still blowing each other up with bullets we're still still shooting missiles at each other you know we're we're [ __ ] crazy this this is a weird species we are a part of and I think when you when you look at the possibilities and the potentials like how did we get to where we are like what what what is what's missing what's wrong with us we need spirituality that's what everybody always says we need religion and they're probably right you know what you get from being a Christian what you get from like true belief in any God and and true belief in like the power of any
enlightened omnipotent being omnipotent being you what you what you get is this feeling of humility and this feeling of connection to all that is right you know that's what you get out of the the the real religious experience and that's what you get from psychedelics and people don't want to hear that they want to hear that you're just trying to escape reality you're just weak you're just scared of reality oh that's what you want to do Amber I see Amber Lion oh you're telling me see you just [ __ ] dive into your fantasy world of dance and mice and [ __ ] Rodeo music and you think you're so [ __ ] smart now you're going to tell tell me how to live my life it is nearly impossible it's it's impossible in psychedelics to Escape reality whereas other drugs and I and I think that's one once again part of the propaganda whereas other drugs and alcohol make you escape reality psychedelics actually force you to sit down objectively and analyze your life and and solve your problems with a clear silent mind and for many people it's the first time in their lives their mind is actually silent their self-critical part of their brain is silent and they can sit back and analyze portions of their life and and come up with solutions to to just make themsel a better person person yeah that sounds ridiculous doesn't it well I think what's more ridiculous Joe is that something that grows on cow poop all over the world and and and forests all over the world is is illegal and and something that is manufactured by our own bodies DMT is also illegal so you're you're saying that my pineal gland should be locked up in a cage huh it's hilarious your brain is a drug Factory a legal drug Factory it's literally like making saliva illegal if saliva was psychoactive it's so stupid Terence mcken had a great joke about that he was talking about DMT being processed by the body so essentially he said everyone's holding like you're you're they can arrest you they can arrest you for the components of your own being wait a minute what if they could somewh or another extract your blood and you had like a vial of your blood you're allowed to walk around with that right I don't think anybody can stop you for that Angelina and jie yeah her and Billy
Bob right didn't they cut each other [ __ ] crazy [ __ ] um I don't think anybody can stop you but if you had like a little little shot of your own DMT you would be in possession of a schedule one illegal drug they could put you in a cage for yeah for sure hilarious I don't think you can extract it that way by the way and I I can't thank you enough Joe for uh really sticking your neck out there and really I know you faced a lot of criticism for your support of psychedelics not really no it's been pretty easy I'm going to be honest with you okay I'm sitting here giving this like heartfelt spee you don't have to no but I I just Tak me seriously it's a great way to it's great position to be in but but I did take you seriously that day in the podcast when you told me mushrooms could change the world and it really planted a seed in my head which sprouted this journey uh that I've been doing around the world investigating these medicines and um that never would have happened my you know my life wouldn't be in such the amazing State I feel like it is in now if it hadn't been for you uh having the gumption to to talk about this and start this dialogue as our country because psychedelics have been so taboo especially in the mainstream and I and I think you're really helping to shift that Consciousness Nationwide I honestly don't think I am I think I'm just a part of the the whole thing itself I mean it's very nice to try to give me uh I don't deserve any credit nor do I want any I just um I am uh I'm shocked that more people don't know about the experiences and I feel a duty because because I've been there it's just like if you and your friends were starving to death and you found some food in the desert you're like guys come here come here come here I found the food I found the food would you want all this credit for finding that food no you'd want your friends to have the food that's how I feel I feel like uh you know what what we're all experiencing right now is wait is a wait what moment the whole C culture is going wait wait wait wait what wait wait wait wait wait wait the nsa's listening to my [ __ ] emails they're listening to my voicemails they're they're reading my emails I don't do anything wrong man come on I'm I'm a [ __ ] insurance salesman and
then and then people going wait wait wait wait wait wait what marijuana makes how much in [ __ ] taxes for Colorado they make how much for we you know we're running out of [ __ ] money for schools and we could pay for that with weed but and people are going to smoke the same amount of weed anyway statistically proven what the [ __ ] is going on when you look at what we're going to go into Syria wait whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa what the [ __ ] are we doing this waight what moment is we're all a part of this weight what moment you're a big part of this weight what moment you're a big part of it by sticking your neck out about Bahrain and about CNN and about you know working for a corporation and being honest about it you you you stuck your neck out about it we're all just we're all forced into this reality we didn't ask to be here we we weren't you know hey could you give birth to me so I can grow up in the 21st century and fig no this this is what you get you got nobody asked you this is what you get and I think all of us realize that that was the same for our our parents it was the same for our grandparents it was the same for everybody and nobody hit the brakes nobody had the wait what moment where they went wait wait wait wait what the [ __ ] are we doing everybody just kept going and then had heart attacks and died and taught a bunch of nonsense to their kids and they went and they had heart attacks and died teaching a bunch of nonsense to their kids and then the internet came along and that's the waight what moment and the waight what moment the real Tipping Point is people like you people like me people like anybody that's a part of the weight what moment that might be my new t-shirt the way went andan Peter shiff and me Peter shi's great yeah we had him on the podcast he's [ __ ] crazy yeah he doesn't he's very supercharged but man he's passionate about about what he's doing he's part of the moment for sure because in some ways in some ways he's part of the problem you know I I like the guy a lot but he his uh I I I believe I agree with him on a lot of what he says but what I don't agree with him about is environmental concerns he doesn't have very many environmental concerns he's as as long as people are making money he's fine with it you know yeah that's
unfortunate well he feels like it's just a few small spots and don't worry about it so a couple spots get [ __ ] up we're going to self-regulation yeah yeah we've seen can you say a BP oil spill like that's what happens well it's interesting I I like I said I really like the guy and I like a lot of his thoughts but he was he believed in some things that I agree with like the no banks are too big to fail and they should have like let the banks fail and that at the end of all that obviously I'm no by any stretch to the imagination but I I agree with his reasoning that any system that doesn't work should be allowed to fail and there's nothing that's too big to fail but then when we started talking about BP you know it's like I think personally like he was talking about if BP went under like what that would do to everybody and I said well I think what they did is way worse than a c a company going under what they did was they ruined a part of the ocean a really big part for a long time and it might still be ruined it might be ruined forever I me who knows what kind of devastating effect it had on the marine life dolphin life like if you had to put all the Death that was caused all the destruction that was caused all the people that are getting sick trying to clean that place up if you had to really put a number on it of course they shouldn't be around anymore but his argument was that BP was too big to fail and I found that fascinating and it was so disgusting Joe I was down there covering it for a month in New Orleans for CNN and I am a huge fan of the ocean I an avid scuba diver and um just witnessing the oil oil soaked Pelicans diving down into the oil actually having the water be your enemy we were on the boat and it was like 90 Dees outside and when the water would Splash up on us instead of it being refreshing I had to wipe it off my body like it was a poison and w i i was so horrific that that month of covering that I've even had to you know through my psychedelic experiences I've even processed some of that some of those implicit memories these horrific memories of that spill that were were stuck in the back of uh my subconscious yeah and people could say oh she's being melodramatic I'll Peter Shi you oh oh oh really you poor baby you have a hard time because of the
dirty water the dirty water made you cry the dirty water [ __ ] with your brain but it's got to be uh a weird moment as a reporter being one of the first few people that's allowed to sort of go out there in boats and experience it and report on it that you you know you got a pretty big responsibility you're getting to see some [ __ ] that people most most people are not going to go to to it most people in this country that are experiencing are experiencing it through you or through someone like you that's there reporting on it that had to be pretty intense that and and also seeing the destruction man can cause on this Earth firsthand was just really uh just you know gives you that kind of feeling because when you look out and as far as you can see you just see oil and crap and and this beautiful ocean just ruined like that I mean it just took a matter of days uh you just really realize wow we really do have the capability to complete completely destroy this planet and um it gives you especially journalistically an extra sense to make sure to cover more environmental issues and investigate these corporations because when left to their own devices uh you see what happens yeah you can't allow some that lives off profit to not have oversight you just can't you can't it'll just it'll and it'll probably kill the oversight guy they probably figure out way I mean that's what happens yeah you know it happens in a lot of environments where there's a lot of money involved things get real [ __ ] squirly people just disappear you know whatever Johnny saw well we'll just get rid of Johnny oh yeah I mean who knows how many people have disappeared over the year through the the reasons I mean there's probably well I don't know there's a it's I don't know if there's a running number because probably a few of them that just they got away with I mean if they're doing it for this long getting rid of people to get in the way of profit of course people have done that if people are willing to that's the weird thing that people don't want to um you know a lot of folks the non-nonsense type folks that I I I I categorize certain types of Skeptics and there's some non-nonsense Skeptics that they don't even realize that they're sort of almost in a religion and their religion
is debunking everything their religion is calling [ __ ] they love calling [ __ ] and even calling [ __ ] when it doesn't even make any sense like when you start talking about false flag attacks oh [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] they love calling [ __ ] do you really think that the government would plan an attack blah blah blah or this or that or let and then you start proposing okay well what do you think happened when they did that in the Gulf of tonan what what do you think happened there ah there's nothing they can't say anything you know what they did you know what they did they lied and they got people to go to war because of a lie like it's been done human beings it's not I'm not blaming the current Administration for what happened during the Vietnam war I'm saying human beings have shown time and time again they're willing to do that they're willing to lie and who knows how many lives are going to be wasted in this lie but they're more than willing to if it profits though oh for sure you know and that's even a situation I had uh when I was at CNN a lot of people had known that lies were going on air and and that this was happening but they continued to to work there for money you know and they I mean it just like I said sometimes money comes first yeah unfortunately or fortunately because the good thing about what's going on in Colorado and Washington is money that's the good thing and if money truly does come first maybe that will be a big part of the shift maybe the people insisting on their freedom or are one part of it but then along the way the money people get corrupted as well because they become addicted to that marijuana money and they won't let the government shut off the pipe exactly I mean it does seem to make sense and so um you have this one experience you you go down there you you take the iasa how many how many different trips did you go on um I I did seven so I um Jesus chist I went down I uh I was feeling really stressed out in life I just had a bunch of uh crazy [ __ ] happened to me throughout my career and it was just one uh experience after the other and I just hadn't had time uh I had this bottled up trauma like so many of us are carrying around I I hadn't had time to process it and so I remember you
telling me um I had written you after the podcast about uh mushrooms cuz I looked up siloc cybin and I could not believe all the lies we've been fed about magic mushrooms how me I mean cybin is single-handedly one of the most incredible healing chemicals for the brain uh some people call it 30 years of therapy in one night and so I looked up psilocybin and then uh you I'd written you and you'd recommended uh trying aasa and so I kind of kept that in the back of my mind and then when I got to this point in the spring where I felt like um I was having so much anxiety constant butterflies in my stomach I I couldn't sleep I couldn't eat um it was like I was in an anxiety pergatory and um and something in my brain I just remembered that email and I remember reading all this positive uh research and studies about uh iasa and other psychedelics helping with uh anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorders and I just knew I had it had to go down to the jungle and um I didn't even prepare I just bought a ticket and went down 2 days later cuz I was so out of it at the time that I didn't even have time to pack I remember pulling into Los Angeles International Airport at parking lot SE and I don't even know how I found my way to the airport it was just like this magnet was drawing me to the Jungle um and because I was so anxious and had so much um adrenaline rushing and and so many flashbacks happening that it was really hard to even drive um and I was sitting in the parking lot SE and I'm in my the back of my car and I'm packing this backpack I find in my trunk and I'm finding maybe a dirty sock under the seat and oh wait I'm headed to the Jungle I think I need a flashlight so I went into my glove box and I found this like little menu reader that senior citizens get that my grandma ordered for me on QVC um and and threw that in my bag and just grabbed this backpack and was standing there waiting for the bus Joe and I remember looking up at this guy thinking oh my God if there's a rock bottom in life I I've hit it and um and just thinking that there's there's no way out like I IA I mean this is my last hope and um and so I get on the plane and um I'm heading down there um and just uh you know looking over the jungle I was by myself I didn't know where the hell I was going I just found this
Center Online really quickly and I'm sitting there drinking a glass of wine looking out at at just this vast array of Amazon jungle I'm completely unprepared I don't know what the hell I'm doing I don't even know what iasa is I didn't read up on it beforehand I just felt a calling it was weird a lot of people tell me this you feel a calling to do it it's like the medicine telling you it it can heal you and um and then uh and then we landed and I remember um I had my sunglasses on still cuz I I was just a a mess and I remember seeing this guy sitting behind me and he kept looking through the airplane seats at me and I was like what is this creep doing like I must look like [ __ ] cuz he will not quit looking at me and right when we get up he he comes up he's like are you Amber Lion and I was like [ __ ] like the only time in my life where I don't want to be recognized where I want to completely disappear from the world this guy uh this guy recognizes me so um we ended up becoming good friends he's now my business partner but um wow but uh yeah the whole plane was all headed to the same uh Retreat set Center which was about a 2-hour ride into the Amazon and um and so it was it like a or propeller plane um it was a small jet but yeah no propellers yeah propellers freak me out because I'm always worried maybe a bird's going to get caught in there or you know so it was a it was just a small jet about 20 seats and everyone on there were Gringos so when whenever you go to iito Peru and you see Gringos you know that they're most likely there for iwasa tourism I mean why else would they be there and uh and so uh so we flew into kitos and then it was me and um five guys and they were all going to the same Center so I was really relieved because I was like okay at least I I know these guys and they seem fairly trustworthy and then we got on a boat and traveled 2 hours up the amazon and just entered in this um area of forest where you just saw this little Hut and it was the name of this Healing Center and um this is it and yeah that's it and that was um that was really creepy because I was like this looks like a place that people don't return from but it but at that point I I knew that I had no choice like I I had to try this medicine and so um so so I went you know I just thought
this fear was resistance to healing and so I I dealt with the fear and and dove in that's like a scene in a movie yeah it was it was um it was really like the new Altered States could be about a woman who goes to the Amazon that like that would be you you know like you the whole thing from grabbing like dirty socks and just throwing them in your bag like whatever you got just what flashlight running leaving your car behind and and then I had to you know now that a couple people had recognized me I had to kind of try to put myself together when I really wanted to just lay back and just just be and um then at that point I had to I I was like I can't let these people know like why I'm really here you know I'm just here as a journalist like I'm just here to write about these medicines I don't really need them and um and really the you know is putting on this this face that everything was all good and I was here journalistically but really inside I was just you know torn to shreds and and really hoping to God that this medicine was going to work well that's where the skeptic would come in and say well you have to realize this is a placebo effect the psychosomatic nature of your incident LED you to have a very stressful reaction to was essentially just hallucinations and you've connected all this spiritual mumbo jumbo woo woo [ __ ] to you tripping your balls off well I I'd say the science disagrees with them and then thousands and thousands of anecdotes there's not a lot of scientific research so you have to also go with the anecdotes which I think are just as powerful but the science actually shows that when you go to these IA churches in Brazil like the udv or Santo Dame Church they uh the members of these Church who drink aasa regularly actually have improved levels of serotonin in their brain so a lot of these healers believe it actually restructures your serotonergic system which allows you to part with this depression and anxiety it's also um some shamans I've dealt with say that what the aasa does is it gets in your soul and gets rid of these dark energies and um painful events that have been holding you back and that might manifest themselves in anxiety or depression or in bodily pain and so if you if you look at that research there is uh there are
thousands of anecdotes of people saying including myself saying that this this medicine uh worked for them and and iasa is a medicine it behaves like a medicine the more you take of it uh the less you need and it actually behaves like a medicine should and cures uh whatever is wrong with you um for me it did I'm not saying spiritually in a sense spiritually so your your your connections that you've made made in your mind it resets them and then often times that is how we react to things it's based on our connections you know our past can really completely flavor our future because it it changes the way you behave and the way you interact with people and when you do that you change the nature you change the nature of the interactions that you have with people you change the directions that things are going to go in you know I mean many people if you put them in one situation um no fight takes place but many other people you put them in the exact same situation and it turns into murder I mean that's it's really it's a lot of it is our connections to how what what we we've made in our life and we don't realize how much those sort of hold us back until a psychedelic experience and to the to the naysayer people like you're very important you know the skeptical people that say oh it's just hallucinations you're attaching all this [ __ ] to it this is what you have to realize and I've said this so many times I don't even want to hear myself say it again but it's it's really important whether or not it's a hallucination whether or not it's all in your imagination or whether or not you are really having an experience where you're meeting Divine wisdom and it's giving you advice and love and showing you a new way whichever one of those it is it's the exact same experience you're having the exact same experience so it doesn't matter if you choose to look at it one way that it's a hallucination it's a product of your imagination or if you choose to look at it the other way and say oh my God I'm I'm I'm meeting the Divine wisdom of the universe and now I'm humbled by this and I'm going to be a better person because of it the experience is exactly the same it's on how you choose to apply it to your life you know just people don't want the
non-nonsense people they don't want to be fools they don't want to talk about they don't want to be the Heaven's Gate people chopping their balls off and wearing the purple Nikes they don't want to be that guy so because of they're limiting this this it's almost like an ego thing like they don't they don't want to fall prey to some foolishness and then have other people pick apart you know what they've done like look at this dummy he thought that going and taking I is going to connect them to the universe yeah all right Bob way to go pal that's the ego fighting back and resisting entering that Dimension whatsoever if you go there and then you think it's nonsense then we should talk because I got to know what your thought process on it is because everyone that I know that's had especially the DMT experience which have you had have you done that yet um no but I had an iasa experience that was very similar to what people have described having when they smoked DMT I'd been fasting for five days and had this Cambo frog medicine which really detoxifies you so I was ready just to absorb the DMT and and I went where a lot of people have described uh with with smoking DMT on the iasa well it's for folks who don't know iasa and DMT essentially or the same drug it's just that DMT is not orally active because your brain produces your body rather produces something called monoamine oxidase which breaks down dimethyl tryptamine in an oral form so they figured out how to do something where they have have the plant uh one plant has DMT in it and another plant has uh harine which is a natural MAO inhibitor and they mix the two of them together and break it down and no one knows how they figured out how to do this either this has been done for thousands and thousands of years the fact that in the 100 plus thousand plants they chose these two as the most effective and they use different ones in other cultures too though right don't they different types of plants that have the same sort of ingredients like different plants that are very rich in DMT and very plants that are very rich in U in harming or some something similar yeah you can mix different types of of leaves as long as they have DMT with the iasa because what the iasa does is just help your body absorb that DMT
so uh particularly where I went they used chacruna leaves uh and mixed that with the aasa that they had growing on the ground so we actually got to watch them make it which was pretty wow exciting um knowing that I had no idea what was in store for um You probably thought it was going to be like a little bit of [ __ ] right I I I was so desperate at that point that I I didn't know what to expect like I said I just was a calling to go down there and and do it and and um some shamans I've talked to said that the medicine often does that to people who really need it they just feel this desire to go down and try it and they just feel this they just know that it's going to help them and that's what that's what I had it sounds like [ __ ] unless unless you've actually had a real psychedelic experience and then you know any of them whether it's a strong mushroom experience or whatever it is when you realize like okay no one knows what the hell's going on like this this this [ __ ] might very well be calling you it very well might be and and there was uh so when I got there it's just me and and about 12 dudes and that's it right yeah so once again I wouldn't recommend uh for females I recommend you always go down with a friend don't don't follow my example this is a a very um uh responsible Amber Lion giving a disclaimer I just don't have a high level of fear so I I was able to go down by myself but did you carry a weapon do you have a prison shank nothing weapon no taser could you imagine the shaman comes up and starts like blowing AA flued on you and you just get away creep yeah that's the problem when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail exactly but I'll give I mean I had I did have a a bad experience with my Shaman the first um the first night and that's why I don't recommend women go down or experience Shaman was trying to hook up with you um no he just inappropriately touched me during the ceremony and um yeah and now at the time I didn't know that it wasn't okay and I what well what are you like a little kid because you're under you're under the influence of the of the AA oh so you were in the middle of tripping and he touched you yeah so tell you the the whole story so this was our first night
really doing the medicine I uh the night before they had just given us just a little bit so we could kind of get used to the creepiness because the whole thing is creepy you're in this yurt in the middle of the Jungle laying on these yoga mats you have this huge bucket next to you just to take out oh there that's I mean imagine that Joe going into that each night and um and and so the whole thing is super creepy so you have to get used to that and then the next night we actually were able to take our full dose and of course there's the bed um that we laid on and and our buckets because you just violently vomit most people do kind of out of both ends that's all you get for a bucket God I think I would need a bigger bucket oh there I am laying right there so I was kind of in the front of the circle and you see there's about you know 12 people around this yurt esque um area and uh and with the bucket and the vomiting they actually call it getting well because you're pulling out all your toxins and all this negative dark energy that Western medicine tends to um ignore the iasa is actually getting to the bottom of of the core of that so so they consider this violent vomiting and um some people out the other end to be really healing I like how you Deni diarrhea how dare you how dare you deny diarrhea I I still think it's appropriate for a woman to say that I don't know that's ridiculous okay so people were taking massive shits and they were vomiting Joe part of life it's part of life you can't deny it happened to you too relax and uh and that night I uh so I was the first one all day we'd been sitting around the table at lunch like how much are you going to take the most you could take was a cup and that was like the absolute send you to another Universe amount and um and we're all nervously like okay well maybe we'll just take half cup all of us together or we'll take a fourth cup and I went up there and I was the first one to go up in this group and something just told me you need to take the full cup so I said I'll take a cup and I looked around all the guys in the circle were just like oh [ __ ] cuz now they had to take a cup too you know they didn't want to seem like like wusses wow and uh and so I I drank this mixture and it tasted like coffee mixed with cough syrup to the point where you just like gag right away and
then went and sat back on my mat and then about 20 minutes later it started taking effect and it just the noise of the Crickets outside in the jungle got louder and louder and louder um I could hear people all around me just violently getting sick to the depths of their soul like like gut-wrenching throwing up and and I just laid back and and then where are they diarrhea do they use the other bucket um I have a photo of it there's actually a bathroom um so you have to make it to the bathroom it's funny like the diarrhea you make it to the bathroom and that was when it was clean I I got to be honest with you sometimes I've gone in there and it was the floors were brown people missed just slipped or they didn't didn't care they were tripping they [ __ ] all over the place I would just go out into the jungle a lot of people did um but but some people eat though that would suck some people just they were scared too they had to have armed guards outside and and guards watching people because people would go and walk away into the jungle and you don't want to get lost in that state um so so that was something that people were really cognizant of and and so that's why a lot of people went into the bathroom that was there but um yeah it was uh it was really powerful Joe like I just laid back and um next thing I know I just heard here we go and then they actually said here we go it said here we go and then bam I saw all this sh sacred geometry which is potentially the language of communication of the Universe um I saw all these ones and zeros going across the screen I heard the sound of coins just clinking clinking clinking I flew through a timeline of my life it was almost like the iasco was trying to get to know who I was and so I saw pictures of me pop up on the 3D timeline from when I was 12 10 then when I was born and then a photo of my parents before they conceived me and then um and then all of the sudden on this big cement wall almost like the wall behind you uh it spray painted the words anxiety really really big and right then the medicine was telling me that it had figured out what was wrong with me wow and yeah and it was literally cuz I didn't know I couldn't pinpoint it I couldn't pinpoint because at the time my thoughts were raising so much I couldn't really figure out what
was wrong and that's often a symptom of people who have post-traumatic stress disorder post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms there's just so much going on that you can't even stop to think about okay what could have caused this what's happening you you just can't even stop to think right and um in the Ia clearly told me your problem is anxiety and then right then I laid back and I felt it crawling through my veins and up into my head and it almost felt like a fizzing in my head and at that point it was telling me lay back we're going to take care of this and I felt like there were um and this is a common uh Vision that there were all of these like thousands and thousands of little beings or elves on my body and they were literally going through my cells one by one and reshaping them and perfecting them and the medicine above all just told me to just lay back and and let it work and um and then I laid there for probably about an hour and then had a really powerful Vision after after that of uh this like being this like fairy type thing coming up to me and then sucking out this dark energy and I saw all of this energy flowing out of my body these dark uh I guess you'd call them spirits of people who I'd interviewed over the years and what it was telling me was that as a journalist I'd been absorbing all of this pain and had it just stored in my body and that was one of the things that was manifesting itself in the post-traumatic stress disorder and so it was literally just sucking out all of this dark energy that was shaped in the forums of people I'd interviewed in their faces over the years wow and um and once it finished I just felt like such a sigh of relief and like a ton of bricks had been taken off off my shoulders wow holy [ __ ] and um yeah it was so powerful and um and and I realized too what it had told me is that like journalistically some journalist and this is true with doctors and and other people who deal with are faced with trauma a lot is that some journalists are able to put up a brick wall and you kind of do your story and then you move on but for me to really understand what I was reporting on I had to almost become the people I was interviewing to really feel their pain to understand who was telling the truth what they were going through and that
happened to me so many times using submersion journalism but I didn't realize at the same time I was also absorbing a lot of their pain um especially I've done a lot of Stories on sex trafficking child sex trafficking a lot of Stories on drug addiction oxycodone Oxycontin addiction and when I'd sit with these people and watch them uh shoot up Oxycontin pills I I was absorbing that pain because I would sit and intensely watch them to try to feel why are they doing what they're doing and so all of this was just stored in my body and the iasa was taking it out wow that's intense that seems like it would be really beneficial for soldiers yes there are soldiers who've gone down uh some scientists have actually followed them down into the jungle and all 12 of them that went came back reporting improved symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder wow uh because what iasa is really good at doing the way to cure post-traumatic stress disorder is you really need to get into your subconscious where you have these memories locked in there that you don't even remember you remember and you need to be able to process them with a sound mind to detach the fear that's ass assciated with those memories so that next time anything that triggers that memory comes up you're not flooded with fear um so for example anytime a soldier might hear a loud noise it reminds them of the time they were shot at in a tank and that's why they're they face this adrenaline rush or a panic attack or for me it became even seeing um I'd had several bad experiences with police officers as I was covering the protest and so when I would see police or their their guns I'd start to get really anxious and so for me it was just a matter of processing those memories and that's what the iasa is so beautiful at doing I had stuff come up that I didn't even remember I remembered wow and that had been trapped in there causing me this anxiety for the majority of my life and um and the iasa was was key to to helping me access those that's so fascinating that's very different than the DMT experience I really have to do it cu the the DMT experience is so so overwhelmingly alien that you what what you get out of it is it's it's really hard to hold on to
anything like you don't see like anxiety you don't see like at least for me for me there's there's nothing written there's everything is implied and everything is projected through these things to you and everything you see is impossible to describe there's no words written down it's just way too big it's way too crazy and the the DMT Flash supposedly is far more intense but it sounds like the iasa journey is much more introspective very much which I find uh very attractive and and the iwasa takes control and just starts working its magic on you and and really getting in there and and healing you whether you like it or not and for some people it's terrifying because I I've witnessed people screaming and running out into the lawn and child's post saying God make this stop will someone make it stop because for some people really getting in and seeing what they're really about because they've been living this personality this mask their whole lives they've not been their true selves as a coping mechanism to deal with society when they're finally faced with the mirror held up magnifying your true self times 40 they can't handle it um but for me personally I found it to be extremely therapeutic because I had so much chaos going on in my head that I couldn't figure out what was even at the root of that and and the iasa allowed me to to really figure out what was the causing my problems well you the idea that a drug experience could change based on your intent going into it seems for a lot of people Preposterous but when you take into account that what these drugs are doing essentially like what what you're trying to do when you you know have an IAS experience it has a big impact on what kind of experience that you actually have because if you try to fight it in any way if you try to wrestle with it in any way you try to resist and no no no that's not what I'm like I'm like this if you try to argue with it it will [ __ ] you up sideways mushrooms will DMT will marijuana will if you eat a pot brownie eat a really strong pot brownie and try to try to argue with it oh my God you're [ __ ] man I mean that's what a bad trip is really all about it's about your intent going in so you got lucky you you went into it with the perfect intent I mean it knew this crazy [ __ ] just threw
her [ __ ] into a bag just jumped she's got a flashlight to read with like you're in the [ __ ] jungle you got a little B you didn't even get extra batteries for that flashlight I bet no I didn't I had to borrow all I had to go to you know the guy sleeping next to me and borrow socks from himar so embarrassing sunblock I had no mosquito spray I was just eaten alive I think I brought you a photo of my spider bite I woke with woke up with one day it was the size of a quarter when I woke up and then it just started growing throughout the day about this there it is scary oh my God that's terrifying and I'm sitting there I'm like wait [ __ ] we're 2 hours away from any bit of yeah medicine and I'm just just watching it grow and grow and grow uh not necessarily but it did stop growing thank goodness wow but um but yeah we there are definitely some amazing insects there yeah that would scare the [ __ ] out of me I'm terrified of oh there you go Joe that's uh my roommate Jason shot that photo and those were just some spiders around around the house oh God damn it so I go down there and after you recommended for me to do iasa I'm sitting at the table one time Joe and I'm people are like well why are you down here you know I'm like oh well a good friend of mine had suggested to go and and I'd mentioned your name and they're like but Joe Joe's never done iasa and this is before my first drink and I'm thinking what the hell I just took advice I'm all the way in the Amazon I'm like Amber you should go to Mars yeah like totally go to Mars how come you haven't uh how come you haven't tried it cuz I have never gone down to the Jungle I've only done I've done DMT seven times but uh that's it as far as the dimethyl trip toine experience and uh I just I've never had the time never had the time to travel down to the Jungle but I'll definitely do it and I I think too it's dependent on if you really need the healing you know I mean the iasa knows who needs healing and it seem like we all use it I I do think so uh very much so but I do think too if you don't actually go down there with an intent for healing then it may not work which happened to someone who uh one of my roommates in the house he went down wanting to just see snakes and and other things he'd heard about and I think the
iasa knew that and uh the entire time he was down there he didn't see one vision and I mean he would take his shirt off he'd be like okay let's go the shaman would bring in his strongest Brew serve him three cups and still nothing maybe that guy was a robot yeah he wasn't even really a person but um so you just never know you never know what you're going to get but but I do believe will benefit everybody I'm sorry they say that about DMT that it's like one out of every 20 people experiences nothing wow he's smoking and everybody else gets blown through the center of the universe and sees complex patterns made out of love and understanding that you know see through your soul but they don't experience anything it's like one out of 20 people they have Zero Effect maybe that's what happened to him I felt so bad cuz he paid for the trip down to the Jungle sounds like a tool the universe bro out the universe is like listen stop we're not going to give you any I don't know the guy maybe the guy was really cool oh yeah he's super amazing but it just sucked that you know he didn't get to see anything but that's kind of the medicine saying you need you need to have an intent it's like it goes back to set and setting you need to have that mindset of wanting healing and wanting to accept the medicine or like you said Joe things can go uh pretty wrong I wonder if there's like a pharmacological reason or a biological reason why some people don't maybe they don't have a there's they're missing some sort of expression of a gene or something like that that doesn't allow them to have the experience or potentially maybe the calcification of pineal glands I I don't know if that affects it but that just has been something I've been reading about you know that water tends to cause that and other things yeah is that real though I mean how much real work has been done on that the problem is you go to these websites then you read you know Bigfoot read my mind right you go okay Bigfoot read your mind and the calcification of the pineal gland for the longest time it was a massive source of debate um in fact um the debate about whether or not the pineal gland actually even had DMT in it and Rick strasman who's a friend of mine and a really really interesting cool guy um who wrote The Spirit
Molecule DMT The Spirit Molecule uh he did all those studies at a university New Mexico and uh they had only anecdotal evidence that it was produced by the pineal gland they knew it was produced by the liver and the lungs but the actual the the third eye of Eastern mysticism the the the pineal gland which in certain reptiles actually has a retina lens and it's actually an eyeball in certain reptiles it's mean it's really [ __ ] crazy that this gland like the third eye it's like there's a reason why it exists in all these ancient depictions of Enlightenment and that is literally where DMT is processed it's where it's made and so recently just really recently uh strassman's Cottonwood Research Center they figured out that they could observe it in live rats so now they know for a fact that the P pineal gland in live rats produces DMT so it's very very very likely that the same thing is going on with human beings and what what happened to you when you smoked DMT I haven't I've mostly stuck to iasan mushrooms that's what I've been researching but what happens when you when you smoke it well um I've I've smoked a couple different types too I've smoked uh five methoxy DMT which is uh quite different um the experience is much more of uh the there's like DMT seems to allow you to keep who you are and DMT allows you to examine the culture from some sort of a new realm that it it doesn't take you away from the very world that you live in it just shows you another one it brings you it would take you and put you in this place it doesn't change who you are though which is really interesting like when you're drunk it changes who you are you know you you you're more loose you're maybe a little more Rowdy you say Siler [ __ ] whatever it is that your particular reaction is but your thinking is changed your thinking is changed when you're on you know opiates your thinking is changed when you're on marijuana not when you're on DMT you're thinking exactly the same but all of the sudden this door opens in your mind you step like on like on your on how you step out on an elevator you know you make that that step over that Gap you see the floor you see the elevator and the do open open and as the doors open the elevator is rising up so and you look down you're forced to look down
there's a little slice of air between that elevator in the hotel and then you realize what the [ __ ] you're really doing you're really stepping into this box that's hovering 7080 [ __ ] stories over the ground held up by Steel cables and you're going to go ride in this box and the door shuts and that's what DMT feels like DMT feels like ready come on in you step over this this Chasm the door shuts and then it opens and then you just [ __ ] go it's like getting shot through a cannon of geometric patterns and what I remember is the the beginning of it literally being like the beginning of a ride like it slowly exposed itself initially you have blinders on and it's it's colored like a yellow jacket be like yellow and black that's what I remember like intensely strong yellow and black that's moving like sort of spiraling but it's Square it it's it's very square and it's essentially like giving you like a little bit of a a slow [ __ ] before it goes after you it's like here come on I'm just going to give you a little kiss and I'm it's like massaging your shoulders like shooting you down this pipe this crazy squared off pipe and then boom into the big thing and the beginning of it was so like holy [ __ ] like what am I looking at that you think there couldn't be any anything stranger in the world until it lets you out at the bottom until boom and you think that's as crazy as it gets and then as you go deeper in it shows you something crazier and it shows you that there's no end and it also connects you to such overwhelming evidence of things being far more fantastic than you could ever be aware just overwhelming evidence just the fact that you could personally with your eyes ever experience what you're seeing that it could be possible even if it's a hallucination it is still happening you're still seeing this and this very experience should be impossible it's too alien it's too beyond the imagination it's too beyond anything I've could have concocted based on the context of the life that I've lived it's impossible and then they started singing I Love You 6 500,000 times look at this and they would say like look at this and show you these [ __ ] things that were impossibly beautiful like I remember crying because there were the things they were showing
me were so beautiful and they kept saying like like a little child the way a child would tell you they love you like I love you 600 million 500,000 times look at this and just but that that childish love to it like was a big theme of it this this repeating that I love you 600 million 500,000 times like if you tell a kid they love you they go I love you a 100 times and you're like I love you a million times I love you 6,500,000 times they would say something crazy like that and that's what this thing was was was saying and then just showing and I don't even think it was 6,500,000 times that's like my interpretation of it because you're not hearing real words you're just getting like this really clear intent that seems to be talking to you but you don't know how it's talking to you you're not it's not like you're seeing it like on a wall like and you're reading it it's somehow or another putting those words in your head so I'm saying 6,500,000 times but it was really just that sort of an interpretation of like a childish you know pure love they're not trying to be your girlfriend they're not trying to you know get a job they're not trying to you know get you to give them money they're just this is pure love this Pure Love without any context at all and just a series of beautiful fantastic visions that you're trying to grab you're trying to hold on to but you can the way I describe it is like standing in the middle of a river of fish that are going a thousand miles an hour and you're just trying to grab them and there's no way there's no way and but you recognize what you're seeing when you're seeing it but you can't even hold on to it because then a new one's coming and a new one is so much more crazy than the one you just saw and then boom a new one's there and they're infinite and they never end they keep going until the drug wear's off and then as the drug wears off there was you know like the the love you thing was still going on but there was also like a lot of we'll see you later bye there's like a like a bye-bye bye-bye like letting you know they they had a good time and then you know we'll see you some other time when you're ready we're here wow wow yeah how do you go back to reality after how do you go to Fear Factor after that that that was my
problem the first time I did it wait what am I doing here I was like holy schnitzel this is uh it was the first one uh the first one I did was the five methoxy one and five methoxy is uh much more um reality dissolving it's like you don't see anything you just you don't exist anymore you as you you're not allowed to keep you know you keep it with DMT you don't U you don't keep with 5o uu goes away and you enter to the center of everything you become a part of the very fiber of the universe you look at the universe from a different perspective perspective that you're at right now as a multi-celled organism host to millions and billions in fact of other multicell organisms and you're you know you're just getting through life getting your car driving around you look at it through the energy of the cell itself like you look at it through the the momentum of biological life and evolution you look at it through a completely nons society-based concept through a completely context rather through a completely alien context like you're seeing the world through not Through The Eyes of a mammal not Through The Eyes of a fish not Through The Eyes Of Life not Through The Eyes of anything with Biology not Through The Eyes of anything that has any instincts to stay alive Through The Eyes of something that realizes it's a part of everything and that there is no bottom there's no up there's all and it's all around you all the time and I was the the first time I really came to understand understand the idea of um standing on something is ridiculous like the idea that like I'm on the ground like we're standing here in my office it's so ridiculous because we're not we're spinning a th miles an hour in a circle that circle is a part of a greater system called the solar system that system is a part of a greater system called the Galaxy the whole thing is spinning around a black hole like we're not does nothing flat it's it's up it's down it's left it's right and in having that exper experience I like I was somehow or another just in there a part of the mechanism of the very universe itself but it was very not me and then when I had to come back I had to sort of reput together my personality reput together
my position in the world as far as like what my responsibilities are what is expected of me or what I'm supposed to be doing on Monday morning I had to reput that all together because I didn't exist for 15 20 minutes whatever it was probably 15 um and then um sort of examine how Preposterous I am you know examine ego exam and I remember saying to my friends after we had just got done doing it like I can't even even me describing this to you is [ __ ] because what I'm trying to do is sound clever in the way I'm choosing my words I'm allowing my ego to paint uh I want you to be entertained by my words I don't just want these words to come out in absolutely perfectly truthful form I'm also trying to I'm trying to be clever I like to use words I like to sing a song with words you know and I'm realizing that as I'm saying this that it's like I'm full of [ __ ] we're all full of [ __ ] like it's there's a benefit to being full of [ __ ] the benefit is like like um it's not even full of [ __ ] it's just like my friend Joey di is my favorite human ever like the way he talks I love being around him he's just so much fun and it's the way he talks he knows that people love the way he talks so he's really good at singing a song with his words you know and to to get to get off that to try to look at something off that trip the trip of singing a song with your words is really hard and DMT makes that song look stupid as [ __ ] because DMT lets you know like I get it I get it you think that in the context of humanity and civilization and your interpersonal relationships that you have with other beings that what you're saying is important but it's not yeah and here's here's evidence that it's not here's evidence that nothing is important and whatever you do that makes this time this thing that you think is important whatever you do that makes that [ __ ] up stop stop all that stop all that craziness whatever you're doing that's causing you anxiety whatever you're doing that's causing you uh too much objective thinking too much uh you know intera interviewing yourself and going over the thoughts and like why am I doing that why am I still smoking why am I why am I still eating shitty food why am I just stop doing all that because that's a mess that's a mess you don't
need that and it just made you look it made me look so foolish but it's very different than NN DMT just so those are the two experiences that I had then I had both of them I only did the the 5 Meo three times but the regular DMT was about five or six more because it was just the regular DMT was more um more interesting to me I figured like I felt like whatever the 5 Meo had to say I I got it I got it pretty quick not that it I couldn't benefit from a but didn't didn't call me back you know I was like there it is [ __ ] take a look you got it good now go about your business whereas DMT was um every time was a new thing every time I did it was a new it was similar but every time was like oh I think I know what this is about oh do you really yeah come through here sir here we go you ready woo and then some new thing that you're like oh [ __ ] Christ that's how the iasa is I uh one of the healers I work with has been using it for 18 years and he says still every time he does it it's different and it completely opens his mind to he still can't figure it out and it's been it's been 18 years and uh and I think something else aasa is good for when you look at through a therapeutic or medical scope which is kind of similar to what you had in your DMT experience is that it does take away a lot of the fear of life and the fear of dying and I think that's something too that that I had and most people do have a fear of death and um one time I uh had iasa and I hadn't eaten in 5 days so I was really ready to absorb the medicine and right after drinking it Joe I started feeling like I was dying and I started thinking oh my gosh has anyone died from iasa because I I just in my brain it was telling me you're you're dying and I started having trouble breathing and I I was remembering that if I didn't remember to breathe I wouldn't breathe and then it got the Feeling got so intense um that I remember looking over at my boyfriend and thinking how sad it was that I'd never see him again and at that point I started seeing sacred geometry and then I I literally left my body and became this vibration and I looked back at my body thinking it's so sad I couldn't hold on to that body you know what's wrong with me that
everyone in this room is able to stay alive and I had to die so how many trips had you gone on before this had happened um that was my eighth one so at this point Jesus [ __ ] Christ the eighth visit or eighth eighth time uh drinking iasa so during the first visit is it um no this was a separate time so I had I went down to the Amazon then I've traveled the world the past year researching mushrooms and then um when I was in Indonesia I was given the opportunity to uh be included in an iasa experience this was a couple months ago and this is when this happened I wanted to ask you that the um I've talked to people that have done iasa with um things that have come from the Middle East different plants that have come from the Middle East they've mixed it and they've seen very different imagery than the imery that people report seeing from the jungles of Peru and and and Brazil apparently what they're McKenna's idea was that and it might have been someone else's idea that he had talked about in a speech he uh believed that when you had a psychedelic experience you were also participating in all the various trips that everyone else had done with that psychedelic like essentially throughout history wow and that was one of the reasons why fairly recent drugs had an empty feeling like he would talk about ketamine and he said that ketamine would feel like you were in an office building that was new but nobody had moved into yet and like there'd be no one there you it be like walking around there's no furniture like this is bizarre he's like that was the experience that he had had with ketamine whereas with Sil Sabin he would have these experiences that were just intensely rich with all this sacred imagery that has been you know observed in artwork and and and various cultures like they have like this interchangeable IM iny that may have like very similar psychedelic consumptions and that that's what you're seeing you know when you're seeing Jaguars and black people and snakes when you do the iasa and where you do the iasa from the South American iasa but when you would do the iasa that was made with similar ingredients on the other parts of the world you have different Visions oh for sure and and this one I mean the ones I had in the jungle were like you said more jungle
esque and this one uh was brewed uh in an area of Australia and so for some reason it was just a completely different experience for me and it could have also been there could have been other variables that I didn't need as much personal healing instead I was led to this knowledge uh sometimes iasa is more of a a a ladder to bring you to this higher intelligence to feed you knowledge and um and so I wasn't having any animalistic Visions or or really sacred geometry I just became flew out of my body and became this vibration and it told me clearly like you said I don't know if it was a a voice or writing or what but this huge intense power told me that that death doesn't exist and why do we fear death why does man fear death it's ridiculous and it's just to cause fear and really you are this vibration this soul and Amber your body on Earth is just your organic spacit that allows you to to survive on Earth but you really are are this soul and no matter what you never really die and it was laughing like it how ridic ulous that it is that man thinks you actually die and then I was just taken through the universe and I I just was flying down this Vortex and I saw Earth and I saw all the fighting and wars and all the negativity that I'd focused on for all these years and I saw how Petty that was compared to this huge massive force that was communicating with me um whether it be God or intelligent beings or or just something made up in my head but but it was just so intense um and I compared that to all the fighting and the negativity and it just left a permanent footprint on my brain that I need to you know whatever this Force this message is so much more important than what I've been focusing on uh on Earth especially in my career and and it started giving me this message of of love and healing and and that we really need to get in and fix the core problem which is uh this mental disorder facing our species U versus just focusing on the symptoms for me journalistically which was Wars and fighting and then um after that I was shown how Man was created according to this oh please to tell um it just was I was shown DNA and I was shown that it was a DNA um mixing and I had not read any theories or anything else on this but I was shown DNA taken from other areas of the
universe mixed with DNA on Earth and then that how Man was created as part of yeah it was pretty intense um as part of this plan um and by who I don't know that's a good question I I couldn't tell exactly what this force was but um but that's what it was showing me how Man was created so we have this idea like oh please you're saying that aliens made people and came down with different DNA but just life itself on this planet is so strange it's so bizarre it's all of it all of it everything from lions eating gazel to the the whole everything we do is so strange and bizarre colors changing animals uh chameleons change their the color of their skin to try to blend in like octopus do that in the ocean floor so much of it is so incredibly strange that the idea that we haven't been influenced that some of us has has not been influenced by similar strangeness from somewhere else is so silly the idea that pollen and then spores and the things fly through the air and seeds land and then New Life comes out of those seeds the idea that that's not a universal idea you know the idea that of you know asteroids don't carry the building blocks of of life well they do they we know they do so they do isn't that sort of an a spaceship I mean isn't an asteroid of spaceship it's a spaceship that carries something from like if some DNA from something came here on an asteroid and collided with something else and then created a person why is that so weird why is it so weird for us and and that's what this force was showing me and I'd never really I never thought about this I wasn't a very religious person I I am more now definitely um you're religious now not religious but I believe in a in a higher being that something is there's more to to our time on Earth and I I used to just think that you die you die and and now I'm uh it's a recurring theme for me when I do you psychedelics to remind me that life does not end uh on Earth maybe Amber ends but the real being me my soul will continue on and that that's just been a recurring theme even especially on the mushrooms um they constantly try to tell me that lesson because I think a lot of my anxiety came from a fear of death well it's kind of weird because we in order to do what we do in order to be a person in order to have a job in order to you know write
your name down when you sign Amber Lion this is my this is what represents me you have to have a pilot you know it has to be Amber in there running the show and so so because of that Amber running the show becomes Amber but when you have the Psychedelic experience Amber running the show really doesn't get a chance to say [ __ ] and then this other thing gets revealed at the core you know without a language it doesn't have a language it doesn't have it's not clinging to life experiences it's not clinging to um you know phobias that you've had developed because of negative experiences not cleaning anything it's just this pure Consciousness that's very very very hard to access that's the real silence that's the the real silence at the end of meditation is the the real you which you very rarely even get to see and it's very very spiritual uh if you look at the John Hopkins studies they found that 61% of people who were given psilocybin considered it to be the single most spiritual event of their life um also you even look at uh Bill Wilson who founded alcoholic annonymous he believed that a lot of people don't know this but he used LSD to cure chronic depression he believed that LSD could actually um should be one of the 12 steps and could lead people to that Spiritual Awakening which would then allow them to uh acknowledge a greater power and continue in their healing don't tell that to Dr Drew yeah but and it's so sad Joe because as The more I've been researching this the more I realized how much amazing research is out there showing how effective psychedelics are for curing anxiety depression addiction all these things so many people are suffering from and we've known since the 19 50s the LSD had a 45% success rate at curing alcoholism I mean if you look at AA there's a study showing there are not even any studies to show how effective LSD is some people say it's or uh AA is in curing alcoholism some people say it's maybe 5% effective so you have these substances out there that are uh we've known for decades are extremely healing AA is really effective at what getting people to talk about AA exactly I supposed I thought you [ __ ] were Anonymous yeah they bring that [ __ ] up constantly don't they God damn I mean I'm sure some people are helped but they are definitely 45% success rate with LSD
is really an astounding number when it comes to rehab and and we need to start talking about psychedelics more we need to make them less taboo so people start realizing that there is hope out there when they've lost all other hope IA gain is actually even stronger than that as far as uh the numbers uh the the ibigan recidivism rate as far as people going back to uh whatever they were doing that was [ __ ] them up is incredibly low incredibly low and especially with uh the Oxy conton addiction which is just consuming our nation I think one of my last stories I did at CNN are on babies now being born addicted to Oxycontin and painkillers which was really my holy [ __ ] what has happened to us as a society moment and you have so they're sick like right out of the yeah they're going through withdrawal once they're born because the mom can't quit using the oxycodone while she's pregnant because the baby could die in utero from withdrawal so she's got to continue using it then these babies I was standing in a niku at East Tennessee Children's Hospital in a niku they've literally half the babies there are being born addicted to these painkillers this is something our society is not discussing that's and I I watched as they brought this baby in and this poor baby was um its skin was marbled and it was just shaking and and screaming and crying in intense pain just like a grown-up would because this baby was going through a opioid withdrawal and they had to instantly give the baby morphine and it takes sometimes 30 days for them to overcome the painful symptoms we had a uh a doctor on Dr Carl Hart yesterday who uh is a drug and addictions expert a guy who's worked for over 20 years on various uh tests and various sub substance and abused substances and and analyzing what the the root of all these experiences are and the way he explained it was really fascinating he was saying that even when you have a hangover that what the hangover is is an alcohol withdrawal that's what you're that you're going through it's not just a dehydration not just your body like being sick it's the compensatory mechanisms that are present in your mind to counteract the alcohol when the alcohol's gone that's a withdrawal like you go into like that's what a hangover is and that whenever
someone has an addiction whether it's an addiction to opiates or whatever it is that's what they're experiencing it's the compensatory mechanisms fire up in order to process the opiates and then when they're gone then you're sick and you know but the way he was describing it was really fascinating he was saying that it's really like I'm sure it's way worse for a [ __ ] baby obviously but for a person it's essentially like having a bad flu and then if you've gone through the flu you've gone through uh what what it feels like to have uh withdraw heroin which I thought was really fascinating it's like a lot of it is misconceptions misconceptions and um disinformation when it comes to withdrawals from drugs and how difficult they are to withdraw from and then a lot of it is psychosomatic there's a lot of uh or psychological um issues in involved with people relapsing that don't have anything to do with chemical pretty interesting stuff and I think that's why ible gain so effective I think some people think it's maybe around 90% effective success rate um because because they don't experience withdrawal symptoms I think that's why so many people are scared or addicts I've spoken to especially who are addicted to these prescription pills is they're so scared to go through those withdrawal symptoms and um what even the young man who discovered IBO gain he actually uh went to try it because he thought he could get stoned so he was just looking for a high and he was a heroin addict and he tried the eyeball gain and then all of a sudden he realized oh my gosh it's been 12 hours I should be having horrific withdrawal symptoms why am I not experiencing these symptoms and then it was so effective uh toward the end of the trip after intense introspection I mean intense you're you're in that trip for about 36 hours for some uh he realized he no longer craved the heroin so then he went and got all of his other junkie friends and started giving them IBO gain and then it just spread across the world now we're seeing centers open up in Mexico and um unfortunately it's still illegal in the United States even though we have a horrific pill addiction but you can access uh iel gain centers in Canada and and Mexico even the Bahamas that's intense I have a friend
who had an addiction to pills U went down did obain cured him completely then he opened up a center wow yeah he's like this is incredible this unbelievable so now he's got a center in Mexico and you know he was a guy that was like a really healthy guy and then he got injured and then the pills just took him over he could he just couldn't help it and he had a really hard time getting rid of him you know for whatever reason but when he went there boom inst instant I mean instant instant cure instant like never doing that again holy [ __ ] instant like recognition of the patterns and then an instant calling to to to be involved in this and to help other people and to find friends that he knew that had similar issues and say listen you got to trust me on this come with me once you've seen the truth at how powerful psychedelics are and you're able to dispel all the propaganda with this truth that doesn't have a shelf life that's going to come out just like you know now marijuana everyone's finally re realizing how medicinal it is now it's just starting to happen again with psychedelics and when you've personally realize this truth and this is something I'm going through now and you see so many people around the country suffering whether it be from depression anxiety or from post-traumatic stress disorder 22 soldiers A Day in the United States kill themselves from it you just feel a duty like you have to share this truth with others and and let people know through your experiences because they are so powerful yeah it is unbelievably powerful and just it's just it's sort of like one of the things that we were talking about uh earlier that we're we are in some sort of a new era is that this the information is being spread virally on things like this these discussions are happening right now during lunch time at schools during uh coffee breaks at work people are talking about these sort of things that they're realizing and they're they're talking about things that they heard talking about things that they've read or videos they've watched or what have you and it's spreading now and it's spreading in a way that just really never did before and and they can't hold it back you can't hold back the truth and and these psychedelics they're not they're not
going to work for everybody but but if you look at the anecdotes and the science it's really there in in favor of of using these medically and it the more research you read the more ridiculous it becomes that they're schedule one saying that there's no medicinal value that that they're highly addictive mushrooms are proven to be non-addictive and the caffeine in your coffee is more toxic for your body than mushrooms the the deadliest drug on Earth is alcohol and and that's legal and the more so the more information you have access to um for me personally because I'm just waking up to all this um within the past year or so uh the more you realize just how ridiculous the whole system is and it's just not in the favor of healing and and the people yeah most people don't realize way more people die from alcohol than do from even prescription drugs yeah 880,000 a year that's more than car accidents more than yeah it's still not as bad as cigarettes that's the number one and that one isn't even get you high well guess it does get you high a little bit it gives you like a little of a psychoactive charge gives you a little like a little stimulant charge a lot of people like it for writing apparently apparently you smoke cigarettes and right like your synapses fire really well Stephen King actually said that when he quit smoking it affected that yeah I I used to smoke occasionally when I'd write um does the IAS Arrow when he's blowing the tobacco smoke on you what is the role that the nicotine and tobacco the the tobacco smoke has on the iasa trip U for me it just in intensifies it sometimes they blow like a sage smoke or palosanto wood and that intensifies you feeling nauseous and and the trip um others say that they use it to clear out the bad spirits and blow them away so that bad spirits don't come into the room they also use it this uh wand called a chakapa chakapa and it's like a leaf wand to blow the spirits out of the room so that bad spirits don't come in wonder what that is I wonder if they're really blowing out bad spirits or they just tricking you you know like tricking your mind to think it's blowing out with bad spirits so it eliminates the fear yeah well it depends on the shaman you get and it's so vital that you pick the right Shaman you got to go back to that
then so the shaman touched you yeah so I I went down and unfortunately now there's new organizations are starting to really help rate iasa centers and give and this is why I'm starting the website I'm starting as well because there's not a lot out there when it comes to advising you where to go uh as far as picking a center I think now there's a new site called a advisor. org like Trip Advisor so I didn't know um so I went down to this Center and and um I didn't know that the shaman who I had gone to um had other accusations against him um and so during the ceremony while I was deep in this really spiritual amazing trip um I noticed him coming up to me and blowing the AWA fita on me which is normal it's the like the holy water for the shamans and he was you know putting putting it on my forehead and then he started putting his hands down my body and actually went around my breasts and went down towards um towards my crotch whoa and and then kept just rubbing back and forth and and I thought that okay maybe is that part of healing the bad spirits did he rub your actual breasts or around your breasts he rubbed like it was he was clearly touching I mean he he made it try to seem like he was going around the outside but he was clearly pushing down on on my breast to the point I'm in the middle taking the most intense psychedelic on Earth and I kind of was like whoa hold on a minute mother mother iasa I need to take care of something in this Dimension because something ain't right and um and he also went to uh the the guy who was next to me and rubbed him in the crotch area as well how dare he maybe that's a part of it though maybe they have to rub your dick I I've talked to every Shaman I've talked to after that said no and actually when he found out as a journalist he fled um the next day he and came up with some outlandish excuse why he needed to be gone until the exact day I left and um and I think he thought maybe I was there to investigate other accusations that had been and he and then we had the local Shaman who native to Peru give us ceremonies after that and it was all beautiful from there and he never touched or or anything like that and and it's not part of the iasa experience to have your breast touch or or anything else on your
body just so people know and that's why it's so vital that you pick the correct Shaman because they're guiding you through this experience and that's also why I don't recommend people um women go down alone at this Point yeah wow that's intense well luckily that's all that happened nothing you know escalated from there but that guy do you know if that guy's still still doing it well um unfortunately he passed away um Oh you mean fortunately uh well either way whatever happened um it's weird because people tend to say that the spirits of the Jungle kind of take care of anything that comes in and tries to use the medicine the wrong way and oddly enough he died around Christmas time he fell off the third floor of of his home he'd built in the jungle and hit his head and passed away godamn and when I heard that cuz I had heard other stories of shamans who've misused the medicine and they've kind of had weird Fates as well um you know I wasn't wouldn't be surprised if the spirits kind of just or maybe some dude whose dick he grabbed threw him off the [ __ ] window yeah you never know but that's just as likely that's the sad thing with the medicines is they're some of the most profound compounds on Earth for healing but I think something I've noticed too in traveling the world Joe is that some people have taken advantage of them and claimed to be healers and really in the end of the day the only healer the main healer is the actual psychedelic all you need to do is take that psychedelic go be with yourself and it and it will do the healing you don't need a Healer per se and and you just have to be very cautious because people coming in with the wrong intentions maybe just to make money have are our opening up centers and yeah I've I've talked to quite a few people that claim to be a Healer and um I just think that the idea is so Preposterous a it's it's a very Preposterous idea that someone who gifted with these magic powers and B thinking that you are is so [ __ ] delusional that it it it is absolutely contrary to the spirit of psychedelic exploration in the first place thinking you're the one person that has this unique gift and you can heal people get the [ __ ] out of here stop I knew this dude who was a chiropractor used to
crack people's backs tell them that you're you he's healing foot fungus he's uh making you smarter he's you know fixing your zones and like what are you doing you're healing and then in a in a sort of a discret conversation he revealed to me that if he convinces people that they're healing that that does in fact start the healing and I'm like okay what so you're justifying bullshitting by saying that the [ __ ] works if the people believe it it's like a placebo effect you're be you're a human placebo effect well it didn't work with me dude okay at all like this is a really bad conversation we're having it sounds like you're a bullshitter like this is ridiculous like this the idea behind it is ridiculous that one person would have some sort of magical power with their hands to heal things like get the [ __ ] out of here man stop the power is in the psychodelic medicine and the most amazing healer I met along the way was this man in Waka Mexico I went there to investigate how the maitc have been using mushrooms medically for thousands of years because it's kind of contradicts everything we've been told about magic mushrooms that they're actually a medicine there and um and the Healer actually what he would do would just bring people in he would make the tea give you the mushrooms and then say okay here's my property go sit wherever you want and and be one with the mushrooms and the mushrooms will do the healing I'm not a Healer I'm just a provider wow and and to me that was so profound because we had run into on this journey so many phonies who wanted $400 for a ceremony or you know they their hands are the hands of God with with these psychedelics and it really is just the medicine that's all that's all you need you don't you don't need someone else to bring you there well seems like in and it become more and more becoming more and more popular over the last few years the demand for it is so high there's got to be a lot of unscrupulous people that are sort of capitalizing on that demand and people who never were Shaman they just figure out the recipe cook it up start serving people and squeezing tits and they're like this is the best job ever you know these dudes are [ __ ] up I'm touching their dicks it's awesome and they give me 200 bucks a night which
is like a monthly salary in my country you know yeah I mean it only makes sense it seems like they need like an accreditation thing like sort of like you know where'd you get your PhD Columbia oh that guy's legit you know where where'd you get your iaso uh license to practice what you know it doesn't exist but I mean like it's almost more important than being a PhD I mean the ability to to to accurately describe what happened in those Dimensions to someone who hasn't experienced it is impossible the the idea behind what you're experiencing is so fantastic that any words to describe it are going to fall short so a guy who could administer that the the function of that person in your society and your culture is uniquely important in in a really intense way just as important as someone who's a doctor just as important as someone who's a teacher just as important as you any important aspect of our community we consider to be a Cornerstone it's medical or legal or any of those things like having someone who can give you that experience is a huge that's a huge role but you know who's doing it these [ __ ] weird guys that are touching you while you're passed out you know and not all of them are bad they're some really amazing healers I I had lost faith almost Joe and then I met some incredible uh real IAS scaros and IAS Scara a woman who um who's been doing it for years and and they were so profoundly helped me heal and and understand the medicine that that there is a lot of good but it's a yin and yang and and that's why I just warn people because I think oh well this she went down there alone in in the jungle and it's like no it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies like I I had some uh some things to have to overcome there because I I did chose to kind of go down there so quickly well I think it's like everything in life there's going to be good versions of it and bad versions of it and we should seek to find the ideal version of it you know and I think also that there's the that Yin and balance of the universe seems inescapable it seems like it's in everything like really terrible relationships they make you appreciate really good relationships bad friends make you appreciate good friends bad jobs make you appreciate good jobs
traffic makes you appreciate the mountains even more I mean all those things factor in together I don't think they I don't think you can escape them I think you need them all you need the yin and the Yang you need the shitty IAS Garo to make you really appreciate the beauty of someone who's absolutely pure in their intent I really think that's this is the way the world works you know and I think you try to get away from that you're being silly you're missing the whole point the whole point is just seek the light go towards the good just find that done you can't fix all the dark it's not fixable like people involved in the dark have to recognize they're leaning one way more than they are the other and try to correct hopefully somehow or another they're going to have an experience that comes that gives them that sort of understanding but you're not going to fix them concentrate on your own [ __ ] sh move forward go go go go seek the light you know go go the right way and for some folks they just never quite get there and I don't know what their role is but their role may very well be for someone like you or someone like me to see the error of their ways and learn from it I mean that might be their place in this giant machine their place might truly be to Enlighten the others around them as to the wrong way and maybe when they come back they'll come back with the knowledge of whatever they've [ __ ] up in the past life and some sort of inherent form and they'll move incrementally closer and closer to some form of Enlightenment and and it really helped me journalistically because I'm I'm not only trying to use these psychedelics for healing but also to really understand the history and uh and for some reason after that first experience I just had my [ __ ] meter on times 4,000 so right away I could weed through the [ __ ] and just get to the healers who could teach me the most journalistically especially um when I was traveling through Mexico because that I mean already it's some areas of there are a little sketchy and so it really helped me to find the real native cor anderas and and have just an amazing beautiful experience with these mushrooms that um I have such a profound love for mushrooms uh now Joe and I understand why when I was on your show
you were saying that if everyone could do mushrooms it would just transform the world and I'm a firm believer psilocybin is hands down the most incredible chemical known to the brain just through my experiences well it's really close to human neurochemistry too I mean it literally has NN dimethyl tryptamine in it as far as like what it is before it it is that it's um there's it's very closely related um and the most profound ones are closely related to human neurochemistry I mean the idea that you're going to get this DMT trip from all these plants that grow in the jungle the these plants that grow in the jungle literally contain the the very chemicals that make your brain work you know it's so so bizarre and they're illegal and they're illegal yeah ignore everything you've been told about them it's all it's all lies when I first had my first mushroom experience I I really realized wow how deep the propaganda went and um and we we've just been fed so many lies about about these substances uh especially siloc cybin I feel like uh the industry has a lot of fear of psilocybin because it can't be patented and it is so effective uh one study at the University of Southern Florida uh found out uh scientists believe after the study that it may even lead to neurogenesis which is a regrowth of brain cells and um and in that study they gave rats uh they'd play this loud noise and then they'd shock the hell out of these rats and then they gave some of the rats psilocybin and then later on they played that noise again and the Rats that had psilocybin were less likely to face the fear of that sound and they believe that that was because potentially it had led to the regrowth of brain cells and the reparation of the um serotonergic system that's so intense and this is something that we're we're saying is illegal and if it's schedule one so that means it has no medicinal benefits it's uh addictive but they proven mushrooms aren't addictive and and look at all of these studies coming out showing that psilocybin has potential to cure anxiety and and PTSD and so it's really it's just really disturbing but I I recommend anyone out there facing you know who has a type of illness or PTSD depression anxiety and they haven't found any hope in anything else and they they're feeling hopeless
to just research psilocybin because it it gives me so much hope and I think it's one of the greatest human rights tragedies of Our Generation that this isn't available to everyone who who needs it uh it is very strange isn't it and it's strange that a person like you has to come along and and sort of like let people know about this like that this isn't common knowledge this isn't something that's being taught in schools this isn't something the president's talking about like I found a way to World Peace you know we all need to do mushrooms imagine but it's I mean could you imagine how how many people not everybody this isn't for everyone some people you know would potentially have bad trips if you're not ready for it but but the healing potential is so great that it's worth the risk um yeah I I agree and I also think that um when you uh when you go deep into the idea that psilocybin may have been responsible for the very evolution of the human mind itself uh it gets really compelling uh we had Dennis McKenna on the podcast and I'm going we're doing some emails back and forth right now I'm uh I'll have him on hopefully uh in April again but um he explained in a very scientific manner um the actual correlation between use of psilocybin and the development of language why there's a connection and why it makes sense and based on the reaction to psilocybin by the human brain and the the connections that it makes and I can't do it justice to try to repeat what he said but it's incredibly compelling and his brother had um Terren Terence McKenna had this idea that was in in really intoxicating and that was the idea of the stoned ape the stoned ape Theory being that when climate change occurred and the rainforest started receding into grasslands that these undulate cows these these Wild cattle would leave these shits and these animals these monkeys would come along and flip the shits over and find bugs and mushrooms would grow on the shits so they would experiment with these mushrooms and he had all these direct correlations between experimenting with mushrooms and the Improvement of various as aspects of Life which would make it uh probable that these people these animals these human-like things experimented with
these mushrooms including eating visual uh the uh eating of psilocybin in increases lowlevel uh at lowlevel doses increases visual Acuity so it actually makes you see better makes Edge detection better it would make you more effective Hunter makes you more sensitive to your environment uh it would make you hornier so you would have more sex um and of course then at higher doses you would get this sort of unifying experience that would Bond the tribe together it would create a tighter group of people a tighter group of monkey likee people whatever the [ __ ] they were and he used that as a a direct reason for one of the biggest mysteries in the entire fossil record which is the doubling of the human brain size over a period of 2 million years it's a really fascinating mystery that no one has ever solved they don't know why there's a lot of theories there's a lot of competing theories as to what caused the human brain size to double but it's an unprecedented event in biology the way McKennon described it he's like if it was like the liver of an otter it would be a spectacular find that a liver of an otter doubled over a period of 2 million years I mean it would be really per fing like why is this when you have the greatest transformation of any known biological creature over a period of 2 million years like this and that's the same organ that created the theory of evolution in the first place like that's when [ __ ] gets really weird like the human mind is the thing that's figuring this all out and the human mind is the thing that's doubling over the period of this one this one period of time what else is going on and he pointed to all these factors that pointed to the experiment with Simon it's really interesting stuff and then with his brother Dennis who's like a hardcore scientist explaining the actual connections between eating siloc cybin and the possible creation of language and of course the exponential effect that creating language would have on these animals and how it would it it would force their mind to expand it would force along with the Psychedelic experiences their their boundaries to shift it's pretty incredible too to if you think on that theory to think now what are we losing because don't have access as as a speci now SI we're sick
we don't have our medicine we there's this thing that's created us and he also Mna was really into the well he's he had a couple freak ideas too one of them was the this longing for this orgastic non- monogamous culture of the past yeah dudes always find a way to work that in you know even the most spiritual guys find a way to work out this non- monogamous concept girlfriends about his behavior like well in a sense he's right you know as far as the male programming but uh you know it's it's fascinating it's fascinating the concept behind it that these at one point in time these cultures supposedly all engaged in this non- monogamous life and and Chris Ryan has very interesting thoughts on that as well the guy who wrote um um sex at dawn brilliant guy who I do a podcast with once a month him and Duncan Trussell and I do a podcast and these ideas were that at one point in time there was no sense of paternity that no one knew that Amber Lion's baby came from Jamie you know you guys didn't you know because everybody was having sex with everybody and there was no DNA test so if you were having sex with five different friends at the same time and all of a sudden you got pregnant everybody would raise the baby together and that would be the idea is that people would grow accustomed to that sort of a culture and that the culture that makes love together and has sex with more than one partner they they like each more and one of the things that he uses uh to sort of highlight that is wife swapping amongst fighter pilots apparently is very high it's it's a it's a normal concept and the idea being that you know that it's very likely you're going to die out there and you love your wife and you don't want your wife to be with someone who doesn't love her and so by sharing her with all your friends you leave behind someone who loves your wife as equally as you do and then it's that intense way view you um I think that we just stuck in the idea that the way we live right now this is this is the pattern that we're all supposed to follow and this pattern may very well be a pattern that's separate from what created it in the first place which might be psychedelic drugs it might be the thing I mean even like mainstream Jerusalem
Scholars now are saying that they believe that Moses finding the Ten Commandments from a burning Bush was most likely some sort of a description of a psychedelic experience and that the bush that's burning may very well have been The Acacia Bush which is incredibly rich in DMT it's one of the most DMT Rich plants in the entire region so if that is the burning bush if that's the an the analogy that they're making you know Moses sees the burning bush is that what they're really saying cuz we're getting it from ancient Hebrew we're getting it from Aramaic translated to Latin translated to Greek is that you sure that's what they're saying cuz what they might be saying is they smoked some [ __ ] DNT and talk to God and God gave them some rules that really made sense as to how we should live our life and if you look at the Good Friday experiment I don't know if you're familiar with that that took place in Harvard when they were studying psilocybin uh they gave theology students uh high doses of psilocybin and they all reported having similar religious experiences as to those described in the Bible wow and so so you kind of have to look back now that I've been investigating psychedelics a lot because I've had my own religious experience where I felt like I've been given messages from God or a higher being and and they tend to be similar to to those passed down throughout history so you you kind of wonder how much did psychedelics play a role in in our creation of religion um next time you come in or if you can get it if you can find it you got to pick up John Marco allegro's uh the sacred Mushroom in the cross cross okay um uh next time you come in if you come in again remind me and I'll I'll give it to you you can borrow it it's hard to get cuz it's out of print cuz the Catholic Church bought up the rights for the book and scooped it up and stopped it but there is one that you still can get that's in print it's called the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Christian myth oh you know what wait a minute I I should change that Yan Irvin started republishing the sacred Mushroom in the cross so you you can still get it and that's uh really awesome of him that he did that I don't know how he went about getting the rights to that but it used
to be that it was a um a very difficult book to get but it's basically by a guy who this guy deciphered the Dead Sea Scrolls for over 14 years this guy John Marco algro and wrote a book on his interpretations of what the language that he had read and he said that he he was the only one that was an ordained minister but he was also agnostic he was the only one in the Dead Sea Scrolls that was an agnostic that was in the committee for deciphering it and his interpretation of the Bible after 14 years of studying the dead Seas girls was that the entire religion was a massive misunderstanding and what was really originally about was fertility rituals and the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and that these these allegories and these stories and all these these different these different Parables they were designed to hide the true nature of the knowledge that they didn't want passed on to the Romans when they were conquered they didn't want passed on they wanted to hide it in stories and that this is what the apple of Adam and Eve was about out and this was this this Rebirth of the understanding of the universe that would exist if you had taken mushrooms you taken psychedelic mushrooms was what they were describing in all these various stories and all these different events they were they were essentially trying to document the knowledge that they had received from having these psychedelic trips and it's unbelievably intense when you you read that and then put it into play and then start thinking like oh wait a minute I get it these [ __ ] ancient people who knew nothing just stumbled upon this [ __ ] that made literally made them who they were created them and then all of a sudden they realized it was going away whether it was going away because of additional climate change which they started losing mushrooms and they started uh preserving them in honey and preserving them in honey also started creating fermented honey which became me which is alcohol which led to more alcohol-based society and as they moved slowly away away from mushrooms and slowly away from psychedelic drugs they move to like almost an anti psychedelic in alcohol and that's when [ __ ] went haywire this disconnect from psychedelics was what caused all these cultures to go Haywire
it's really fascinating and they religions have a a way of Prosecuting psychedelic losers or losers users throughout history I'm a psychic loser but they would call it the work of the devil and that's what I ran into with the maex who I was working with up in Waka is that they had to when the Spaniards came they had to flee into the hills to continue the mushroom tradition wow and now you'll actually see um I went to San Jose del Pacifico one town where the mushrooms are readily accessible in this other Town wat deenz and you'll see on the churches they have Jesus and Mary and then on the other side they have a mushroom so they actually worship the mushrooms they've kind of mixed I guess to survive they mixed Catholicism in with their worship of these mushrooms and um it's it's pretty trippy per se to see it painted on these churches that's actually a big part of really ancient religious artwork period you know a lot of if you look in look up do some research on the connection between mushrooms and even the Catholic Church there's mushroom iconography all over the place and really ancient descriptions like one of the earliest depictions of Adam and Eve on some ancient Fresco is Adam and Eve with a mushroom Tree in between them have you ever seen that image no you can pull that up Jamie Adam and Eve mushroom picture and uh we'll find the uh description of it uh and Eve mushroom yeah we just lost track of all this stuff it's also one of the reasons yeah this is it's it's right away you can pull up that image it's pretty intense that's uh that's an ancient image of Adam and Eve I mean look at that that's crazy uned by the mushroom that's [ __ ] crazy it it was really strange for me when I was in me Mexico to see them blessing the mushrooms on the altar uh instead of the communion holy water they give you mushrooms and that's your sacrament that's what you eat there's another one Jamie pull up there's the other another one that's a different image but a very very similar image see that one on the far left far left yeah right there click up that one look at that isn't that trippy that's from 11:47 uh they call it CE now they don't
call it ad anymore for whatever reason but that's from 1147 so they knew even back then about psychedelic plants having some sort of a connection to Christianity and these were you know these were from churches so it's um it's really fascinating that that's just something that went away it was something that was a part the doorways the shape of the doorway being very mushroom like and a lot of these they they look like a mushroom cap you know that's like there they didn't choose that for you know it's wasn't an accident there was ay di Jack Herer and before he um he had a stroke and then he eventually had a heart attack and went up dying and he was a very important part of the hemp movement and letting people know he was a Goldwater Republican and uh he uh he wrote a book called The Emperor has no clothes about uh about marijuana and the real root of the propaganda that allowed marijuana to become an illegal drug and his thing that he was working on before he got sick was all in the connections between psilocybin and religious uh religious uh thought religions period the creation of religions and he had some really amazing old paintings I wish I knew where he had collected these these images but of people lost in like a dance of ecstasy like they were naked and they were covered by this translucent mushroom and it was a like a reoccurring theme in like really ancient artwork that was religious artwork that these people were engaging in ritualistic Behavior with PS adelic and it was a part of the church whether it was something that was originally for everybody and then when it became more scarce was just controlled by the the upper crust of the the religious organization or you know what what happened over how many periods of hundreds if not thousands of years which is hard for us to kind of let it sink in how much of a shift a 100 years can be think about it this way 200 years ago if you wanted to picture something you had to draw it and if you wanted to get around on something you had to ride an animal that's just 200 years ago you know 200 years ago slavery was legal and all those things so just wrap your head around that and then try to move forward to thinking 200 years before that 200 years before that and
just thinking if at any point in time during that period the pipeline gets cut off to the most influential connection to spirituality known to mankind and then people are left to Boom fend for themselves and figure things out and then the stories are they go from these things which you have this repeatable connection through ceremony to to the Mother Earth to the universe to God to love and then no connection the connection is completely sever all you have is words describing this connection boy it would take on a hollow tone and then all of our primate behavior and instincts and all the shitty aspects of human beings control and ego would flourish and rise to the top and even be fed by alcohol which is the anti psychedelic and then culture is left with these these words these Hollow words written on animal skins from back when people were even then when they wrote these things down probably grasping to the last remaining fibers of this former existence that they had in symbiosis with the plant knowledge isn't that the irony and humor in the universe that so many people spend their entire lives searching for this religious experience thousands and thousands of dollars and you can get it for free growing on cow [ __ ] and isn't it funny that when someone wants to call you on your nonsense they call you on your [ __ ] yeah yeah that oh that is such [ __ ] it's like there's nothing that's going to let you see what's [ __ ] and not [ __ ] like mushrooms exactly and I I think we've had the push towards legalization of marijuana and I think the next big movement should be to legalize mushrooms I mean they grow everywhere they're a natural product they're they've been proven as I said before not to be addictive they're not neurotoxic you're caffeine and your coffee is more uh toxic on your body and your system so why not develop that next push for for mushroom legalization I couldn't agree more and I think what we need to do is it needs to be done in like a professional setting like hire people like they have really acclaimed IAS scaros that everybody loves and goes to figure out a way to hire someone and have someone run a mushroom Center like that a person who is an experienced
Voyager a person who's pure in their intent and they can help people and what an unbelievably rewarding life that would be for someone who instead would be worrying about their physical safety in performing these things they'd have to do that under under you know secret conditions to hide from people and someone have to look out the window to make sure the Jack booted thugs don't kick down the door and stop them when they're in the middle of Enlightenment you know and arrest them and go throw them in some rat infested [ __ ] cage somewhere to not have to worry about that to be able to to actually give people this experience in a in a in a real pure setting would be pretty nice and this is where people go I'm [ __ ] so tired of Rogan this [ __ ] psychedelic talk I get it I'm tired of me too man I'm tired of me too trust me it it's so profound and what the mushrooms did for me and what they do I think they're they could be so effective especially for women and traditionally psychedelics have been more of a a male discussion topic but I think women I will admit I think they may even need them more because we tend to be more self-critical uh than men are and and so that's a prefrontal cortex being overactive and so that leads to depression and anxiety and what the psilocybin does they've actually done scans of brains when people are on psilocybin is it decreases the blood flow to that area of your brain so that for once and this is what happened for me is finally everything just went silent and it was so profound I just burst into tears and I I just could not stop crying because I hadn't had silence for so long and at that point because I had that silence I was able to go back and rewatch my life like a movie and see all these things that had happened over just this ban of two years and then slowly realized okay that's why I was in the position I was in and I was able to reprocess all of these all of these stored memories and if you look at women uh what is it one4 of women in their 40s and 50s are on some kind of anti-depressant that's just a Band-Aid on the bullet wound and I felt like the mushrooms actually got in to my soul and and cured and helped um um perfect my lyic system which is what western
medicine is ignoring that is a really strange number isn't it one quarter of people are on anti-depressants over x amount of age I've always wondered why it is women are uniquely drawn to those things after they get to be a certain age like what is it what is it about anti-depressants is quick Spix maybe is that what it is is it a uh a biological issue that comes with their their body slowing down and they become less and less happy and uh you know maybe that could be something that could be altered by exercise or by you know like a man can stimulate his testosterone with squats and you know there's various you know hormonal ways they can do that but do women ex do they do they have anything out there that expands your natural female sexual hormones does is there anything that does do that I think there are hormone Replacements people take but I don't know of any natural um not to thate yet so yeah but I would wonder that at a certain point if their body just slows down so much that they just feel shitty MH you know they're just not producing hormones correctly anymore and that's what leads them to try to find happiness and a pill that they need something that gives them like a little little serotonin boost you know and what's so sad is that a lot of times with these medicines not all of them but it's actually permanently changing your serotonin levels and depleting them so you are dependent on these medicine just to get back to where you were when you started taking it and I think those medicines are really important for some people though that's where it gets real sketchy cuz I I don't want to write off anti-depressants cuz I know people that have benefited from them the question is would they have benefited equally well from something else some people maybe I know some dudes that have actually gotten on them and then helped their life and then they slowly wean themselves off you know and then I know also people that they benefited from the natural way of doing it by taking five HTP and and finding that that gave them an elevated mood MH and then exercise is a big one they 've also done studies that show that exercise rigorous exercise is equally effective for increasing happiness as anti-depressants are on some people so it's like how do you know I know personally guys who
benefited from anti-depressant so you can't say this guy shouldn't take it because I don't know what's going on in his head you know and I I'm I don't understand the the actual science behind it all I can parot it but I don't really understand what the [ __ ] is going on like comprehensively and I think that you would have to really study it for a long time to really understand it comprehensively but I think there should be more than one option that's my point my point is it's real problematic when you got something like partnership for a drug-free America and they get money from pharmaceutical companies to go after other drugs I mean it's one of the most hilarious aspects of our culture but the fact is that alcohol companies paid for ads against marijuana and that that's fact that's what a partnership for a drug-free America entails prescription drug companies alcohol companies all paid part of that just ridiculous so it should be there should be a bunch of different options available exactly exact that's why I'm uh trying to talk about my story with psychedelic use and how much it helped me just so people know when the other options haven't worked um like you said Joe I'm not discounting I'm sure a lot of people have been helped from Pharmaceuticals but I I think some people have tried them and because it is the only option they feel like oh my gosh that it's this is it and that's why so many of these soldiers um who have post-traumatic stress disorder end up taking their own lives and I interviewed one soldier who was at that point he had been on anti-depressants and nothing was working he was having he had a panic attack that sent him to the emergency room and almost killed him um because his heart rate was so quick and um and luckily he heard about MDMA and siloc cybin and went to a concert and got some wow and that was uh had profound effects he wasn't able to be in crowds and then within weeks he was able to go back out into society and now he actually takes the mushrooms and travels he like an underground railroad of psychedelics between soldiers and he travels around the country uh dosing his buddies so that they can kind of get out of this rut those that haven't been helped by anti-depressants wow and MDMA is shows
you I know you talk with Rick doblin a lot it just shows such profound promise that in one study they had people who had treatment resistant PTSD so nothing was working and 83% of the people in this study who were given MDMA combined with Psychotherapy uh no longer had the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder whereas 25% of people who just were given Psychotherapy were healed so I mean that's a pretty profound numbers there and monster numbers could you imagine if that number was any other sort of medication doctor every doctor would be prescribing it to you there'd be a no-brainer you would go to the doctor and they would immediately prescribe it to you and we have 22 soldiers a day killing themselves need LLY Joe and that that weighs on my shoulders now because I I I I was never officially diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder but I do know especially after talking with a lot of these soldiers I was having symptoms of it and knowing how profoundly effective the psychedelics were on helping me and and curing my anxiety and letting me process those traumatic memories um it's so sad to know that there's so many people out there that haven't been connected with this medicine yet or are being misled and and the United States government knows that MDMA they've been told many times they've been shown the results of this study uh the Pentagon knows that it's effective why why isn't it been legalized well because someone can profit from it not being legalized that's the only reason and it's too easy to grow that's the problem these drugs that are like really beneficial boy does nature make them readily available CU nature wants us to take them nature knows we're insane you could drive if especially if you lived in a nice place like Seattle where it rains a lot you could drive down the street throw pot seeds out the window just throw them as you drive and then come back a couple months later and pot be growing everywhere it would be unavoidable it's that easy you know it's like we we're all right dude Dy you need fertilizer nope NOP nope nope don't need anything don't worry about me I'll just grow right here the best things in life are free it's it's for sure and I'm a firm believer that nature has created uh I used to be a skeptic but now I am a
believer that nature has created something to heal all of our ailments and we just need to be connected with that and and we need to realize that sometimes it's the more natural route that's more effective versus going the pharmaceutical route and often times the pharmaceutical route is sort of based on something that came from the natural route in the first place I mean the the the lessons learned from using natural material sometimes I me what are the one of the one thing that they want to do so much in the jungle they want to extract pharmaceutical drugs out of these jungle plants I that's a big reason why there's so much exploration in the jungle besides using all the wood you know that they're clear cutting giant chunks of that Forest one of the things that the medical community is really concerned about when they're doing that is that when they're clear cutting I mean they're destroying ecosystems and when they're destroying ecosystems we know there are hundred hundreds of thousands of different types of plants down there and we have no idea if the cure to cancer is not locked up at some weird [ __ ] Berry that no one has ever discovered we just don't know and it might be it really might be they found this [ __ ] spider the Brazilian wandering spider and they're trying to use it for a better Viagra cuz this this spider is the most poisonous spider they've ever found kills you and when it kills you one of the ways it kills you is with an erection that is unbelievably painful literally breaks the skin on your penis so even if you get through it which many people don't it bites you and then you get this erection you get it it it affects somehow or another the nitric oxide production of your body and your in it injects you with something that does something to the whole mechanism and your whole body becomes unbelievably painful and rigid and you get an erection and the erection is like have you ever thrown a hot dog on a grill and it plumps and then it pops yeah that's that's your penis it's it it it plumps and it's apparently it breaks it if you live even if you live your sexuality is ruined you're never having your dick is broken it doesn't work anymore like it redlines that thing until Pistons start firing out of the sides of it so even if you do survive you're broken and they so
they found this [ __ ] creepy spider and they're trying to figure out how to make like the best hard-on pill ever with this like forget about viagra like we're talking you just need like a molecule of this [ __ ] throw it in your system and you have erections on demand it's like I was saying Nature has a cure for everything even uh there's this one Shaman in the Amazon and his entire Village was sick and he he couldn't cure them and so he thought his entire tribe was going to be wiped out so Legend hasard he drank aasa and walked into the jungle and these hands came out and showed him this frog which is the Cambo frog it's the most poisonous frog in the jungle and showed him how to kind of milk the Frog and then put it apply the poison to uh the people in the village to to cure what was ailing them and he was able to as Legend has it cure his his whole village well now this Cambo frog Venom is used as a vaccination so instead of the traditional vaccinations we give here in the US they use this frog Venom to vaccinate uh the children and also to make the men stronger as they hunt and I actually got it and and what they do is they just kind of cauterize your arm and put a little on you and right away you feel like you're being poisoned so your whole body reacts to produce all of these antibodies in an emergency effort to try to save your life and you just feel the blood pounding through your head and it's almost it's so intense it's like going you feel like it will shoot through your fingertips and and like all these frogs are running through you and your your lips start to swell and you're sitting there thinking am I really going to die like what the hell did I just take that's what I was thinking at the time and then um you just violently vomit after that like from the depths of your soul and all of these toxins leave your body and after going through this for about an hour you just feel miraculous like like all the toxins have been pulled out of you and you feel energy for months to come because your body's produced all these antibodies to fight infection and I I got it done about 3 months ago and and I I feel great you know whether I'd recommend it to everybody but that's just frog Venom you know a natural substance in the environment and and
they say it potentially has promise to uh for HIV patients because of the flood of antibodies and other people facing autoimmune disorders W which um you know I I believe it could potentially have that effect it seems like it if it doesn't really poison you but it fires all your systems on go like red alert you know we being poisoned and produces all these like Dr crawl Hart was saying compensatory mechanisms that that might be beneficial to increasing your health and totally kind of makes sense and I like I said I feel great like i' I felt like I've had more uh energy since since I've done it it might just be a placebo once again placeo works that's the problem in some ways great this guy that was telling the healing guy that was like pressing on your back when I was like how is this work explain it when he was explaining that it's a placebo part of me was like [ __ ] shut the [ __ ] up but then the other part of me was like but wait a minute Placebo effects do work so you almost have to be dumb enough to believe this guy for his stuff to work but what is it that's working like how is it that's working and when you talk to the shamans that were legit like you know you had the one guy that likes to grab you but then you passed that guy and there's this other guy who's like totally legit did you ever ask him how they figure this stuff out how they figured out I iasa like what is the explanation how do they figure out how to out of all these thousands of plants Brew these two together and doing a really complicated process that takes a long time to get this one thing and it tastes like [ __ ] and yet they drank it anyway and then had these experiences like how the [ __ ] did they ever figure that out it's not like they had microscopes it's not like they were botanists um apparently it was brought to them by by the spirits that's the universal story I've heard from from every Shaman is that somehow they were visited by um Spirits or beings that then showed them to combine combine the these two um the iasa vine and the chuna leaves out of thousands and thousands of of species um other people say that it's Mother Nature's Way of fighting back against the insanity of mankind that aasa actually was made by the plants and and somehow that plant Spirit was given to the people to show them how to make
it and um by some beliefs the AAS I don't know if you're familiar with epigenetics but when you have a lot of trauma it actually changes your DNA and makes you more prone to be depressed or or insane and so uh by some Shaman beliefs that iwas is actually getting in one man at a time and restructuring our DNA and getting rid of all of this negative epigenetics and and just it's just Mother Nature's Way of fighting back against the insanity and so so I get different stories from every every Shaman but the the epigenetics one tends to be the more uh common denominator that I've heard from several of them that they believe it is actually Mother Nature fighting back and trying to uh heal us heal our lyic systems so we don't have this Collective Madness anymore one person at a time who knows how long that's going to take they're on a different time schedule maybe it's a thousand years but but it is working one person at a time you know I've met people who've had profound uh miracles on these substances I've also met people who haven't you know but it's not for schizophrenics it's not for people using anti-depressants you have to make sure you're off the medicines or it could it could kill you um but uh that's important Point yeah and a what do they do when people go down there if uh they they're on antidepressants do people like do they ask they do they make it really clear and then they ask uh every year how long you have to get off of it for I don't know the exact that's something it'd be worth Googling but you can't be on anti-depressants iasa does not like anti-depressants that's very important there folks yeah very important and also um people who are prone to have schizophrenia um the iasa and psychedelics in general tend to allow that to come on earlier it doesn't mean it wouldn't have already happened it doesn't cause schizophrenia you were already going to get it but because the Psychedelic might actually make it come on uh a couple days earlier or a couple days a couple years earlier and I was even next to one woman in a ceremony he was having a schizophrenic episode uh while on the medicine and it was it was pretty pretty terrifying and so reaffirmed my belief to make sure to mention to people you know certain
people the medicines aren't made for mechanic had Terence McKenna had another interesting um way of looking at the development of these things development of things like iasa that these people that lived in these indigenous cultures they didn't have Metallurgy and they did have an advanced social system so as they went through hundreds and then thousands of years of the same culture evolving the way they spread out and their knowledge base it didn't go to architecture it didn't go to the construction of large buildings or airplanes or machines or engines it went instead to plants and that their knowledge base and the the the the information they passed down from generations to generations and they're expanding on the ideas that they currently were aware of all involved nature which is really kind of a fascinating way to look at it it's just when you know the Europeans were going this way they were going a different way but the same process seems to exist in every human culture that people start at one point wherever they're at and then they start advancing they start advancing figuring things out adding to their knowledge base but these people they did it all entirely in a natural setting they never changed the setting the setting was always like huts and things and living amongst the animals and being a part of this whole nature thing and then in doing so communicating in some way shape or form with this spirit world whether it's through eating mushrooms and tripping and then taking back some of that information applying it whatever it was that the plants talked to them and and gave them this information and then they figured out how to pass it on through generation to generation explain this is what you use when you get burnt this is what you use when that this can send you to Jupiter you know this but I I agree that nature has something for every single ailment that we face and and what's so sad too mentioning that about the indigenous cultures living close to Nature actually connecting with this healing energy is how much we've come apart from that especially here in in Los Angeles you know you think um there's this website I was looking on a couple weeks ago like earthing.com where people are actually so disconnected from
nature that they're buying earthing mats um that have like a wire connected out to the backyard and putting it under their beds wow if you think about it too like some people uh something I've been trying to do is just go around Barefoot walk through the grass really try to connect with the Earth you know to allow that energy and knowledge to go through you but some people might spend years without their feet actually touching the Earth and it's just so crazy to think how far we've become removed from nature that we have to buy earthing mats to put in our beds or put put under your uh your your chair while you're at your computer yeah it's pretty stupid I mean it's just we've just lost this connection and I think in the process we've lost our sanity and we need to get that back and that's why we need to start re-evaluating these plants and start integrating them into our culture and and start really waking up to how ridiculous these laws are that you're making Mother Nature illegal you're telling me a a mushroom that grows on cow [ __ ] all across the world is illegal yeah it's dangerous dangerous it it just is it's it's insane there's also the feeling that you get when you're in the woods that's a palpable real feeling of being connected to Nature there's a calming effect of walking through the woods like you go on a hike through the woods you're walking there's all these beautiful trees and you see everything it's like you feel different you feel different because you're in the vibe of nature you're like immersed in this world that really doesn't give a [ __ ] about you I mean you're there or you're not there this is the world I mean it is what it is it's not dependent on you to hit the light switch it just is you know it will be here before you it will be here after you it just is what it is it's trees and animals running by and we sort of affected by our presence but we're a part of it when we're in it and when you're in it you feel it and we kind of we've removed all that we put a buildings and a fence and a [ __ ] highway and made everything hard and we've sort of separated ourselves from this really intense connection to Nature and I think that we could never really understand what it's like to have an unbroken you know maybe thousand maybe
2,000 year Connection in the culture that you're immersed in the culture that you live in to that world and that's those people are experiencing that live in the jungle that created iasa they're experiencing this long unbroken connection to the actual mother itself and it could be that's why we have so many mental health issues which don't exist in these indigenous cultures exactly and even in the areas the towns we went to that rely on medicinal mushrooms they don't use anti-depressants instead when they're having grief or they're having a traumatic event in their life they eat some mushrooms and go into the mountains or visit one of these Healers and and so you look at the rates of happiness in these these Villages and these areas uh compared to what we're experiencing here in the United States and you have to think to yourself they must be doing something right we should at least examine uh what they're using over over our system that that's not working yeah no kidding um I'm I'm really very uh I'm very hopeful uh sometimes ridiculously so about the human race and part of it become comes from my own personal experiences like uh I really enjoy life I really do I really enjoy my friends I really enjoy what I'm doing so I'm I'm very positive in that way I'm not ignorant to the ways of the world I'm not ignorant to the news but I also am not ignorant to the perspective of 7 billion people being alien to one individual 7 billion people's problems all lumped up into your [ __ ] head because you went online and stayed on too many websites and read too much [ __ ] watched too many videos that's not how you're supposed to EXP the world like we're not designed for that interface the interface we're designed for is the interface you experience when you go on a hike through the woods what what you encounter is what is real in your own perceptions these these are the things that you can affect these are the things that you can change but that's all changed Itself by having the ability to communicate and influence all these different people with your story like you what you're telling right here what you told in your book what you told when you first came on the podcast about your experience working for or a news organization that it seems in least
during the time that you were there to have lost its way and where this created turmoil and your your own personal experience and by expressing those things you're literally changing everything around you you're really you're literally affecting everything around you with the experiences that you have had and forcing change and you're forcing it even more right now whether you realize it or not probably more so even tenfold than the last time you were on because you're tell you're saying some crazy [ __ ] you know you're a mainstream CNN reporter and now you're some crazy Tripper who travels the globe eating mushrooms and doing peyote buttons and [ __ ] freaking out I I just feel like such a duty to deliver this message and I know I'm taking a risk and I know there'll be some people who criticize me and they can't though Carl Hart had a great point yesterday um I I keep bringing him up just cuz he's awesome but um one of the things he said said if I have the data um I'm I'll I'll debate anyone I I have the data and if I don't have the data you're not going to hear me talking about it but if I have the data the data is on my side I'm very confident and the data clearly your personal data is undeniable and just my own my own story from where I was then pre psychedelic to where I am now I feel like I've had a complete rebirth and that's your data yeah that's my data I feel like it's near I literally feel like my serotoninergic system has been restructured and I find it nearly impossible to get anxiety and this is coming from someone who used to have constant butterflies in my stomach I have near panic attacks and I I just don't feel that anymore and so you have to say okay what what what did I change in my life well that was the the Psychedelic use that was the the main treatment I used uh to to overcome this and I I just feel I I feel like it could help so many women especially because like I was saying earlier about them being so self-critical and and really just so many people who just haven't taken the time to stand outside of their life and analyze it objectively and make decisions not based on emotion or being self-critical you know it's kind of amazing if this was like a product that we were trying to sell
you'd be like the best celebrity spokesperson ever that's why I feel like I'm going to get I feel like I just feel like whoever doesn't like my message is going to come try to just like smear my credibility they can't they can't they can't they can't until they experience it themselves they can't and once they wouldn't people who don't know people who really have no idea if they did mushrooms and they had that experience they would go oh wow I didn't even know yeah how could you know I don't even blame them I don't blame them for being skeptical I think it's important but I almost feel bad if they don't know mhm and I think you kind of must feel the same way cuz I can tell that you're very compelled to talk about this and you took a long time to decide to kind of go public about this you know we had conversations about this quite a long time ago yeah a year ago that's when I was coming back from aaska and I wrote you and and just thank you for introducing me and told you how transformative reading that email go check out this crazy [ __ ] she listened to me who the hell listens to me she did she's nuts yeah but I it turns out I actually I was right and then and then after then I had after the aasa I went to Thailand where I was able to access um cocy mushrooms that grow on elephant and um buffalo poop and they're just so amazingly healing and and so I WR wrote you after that but I took time to actually discuss it because I really needed to try to absorb as much knowledge as I could from the plants and really um figure them out journalistically like I was on One path of healing and also another path as a journalist and I just wanted to experience the good trips and experience the bad trips and really figure out what these medicines are about um before I came forward with my story because I know some people may hear this and then decide to to try psychedelics and so I needed to be 100% sure I was on the right path which I know now now you not only are on the right path uh you feel but you also are putting other people on this path you you created this crazy website so explain your website explain what you're doing now uh what happened was when I started researching about iasa and stuff like I said I went to a center that I I wasn't I couldn't really
trust I noticed there wasn't a lot of websites out there that could connect people with knowledge about these psychedelics also I noticed there wasn't a lot of psychedelic journalism because there's not a lot of experienced journalists or it's just not being funded or I mean a various amount of factors a is pretty awesome Arrow a is amazing yeah yeah one of the most important resources for anybody that is interested in any of the effects of any of these psychedelic experiences drugs medicines whatever you want to call them compounds um irid is one of the best aid.org right aid.org and also maps.org they're both fantastic to go and find out about research studies and um and and just read other people's uh trip reports and experiences and uh what I'm doing with this site is creating like The Huffington Post of psychedelic news so we're just going to be focusing on the War on Drugs um accurate reporting independent reporting on these topics also we we're building the foundation right now so we have like we want to make it like a virtual City where people can come and sit down and have a cup of coffee and chat with others who've done it uh to reduce harm harm reduction also so people can find accurate information and reviews of of different centers and and just find uh we're going to take all these studies that have been around since the 1950s and and send them back out to the public so they can get this information and um and I just think it's it's really vital right now because when you Google news alert which I often do with all these substances I'll Google News news alert um like ketamine which is profound has profound effects on depression and Sil cybin and the stories that always come up are the ones of the guy getting busted for selling it or the rare Festival death rarely do you actually get news on on how these substances are being used medically so that's what uh we're trying to create with this new site reset.me reset.me what is me um like instead of do what is it what does Emy where do it come from it's another country sh for this purposes it's me as in resetting yourself it's a great way to remember it reset.me I mean it's really perfect name but what country is it it's um that's a good question we might want to look that up I I should
know that but I I use it more in the uh I remember listening to a talk of Terence McKenna and he said that uh using DMT and different psychedelics can be like hitting the reset button on your brain clearing your hard drive of all the trauma and and I believe that's what psychedelics did for me I've I've heard you describe him that way as well and so for people who really need to hit that reset button in life and they've tried other therapies and it hasn't worked we're going to be providing journalism on these psychedelic therapies and also alternative non-prescription therapies it's Montenegro is that what it was monegro Montenegro the government of Montenegro okay well we we Montenegro but um well there's a they sold their domain name rights a lot of countries did for for sale like Biz like you know like there's a there's a bunch of them that they uh they they sold us you can get a us you know yeah it's interesting um so that's awesome reset.me and uh has it launched yet it hasn't launched yet uh it's still being built so it should launch within a month but once again things change sometimes if it takes a little longer well you got to come on again when it launches and let us know we'll tweet about it and we'll let people know and we just talk for three hours yeah for sure and if anyone wants to go to reset.me can follow all of our social media accounts we're really looking for people who are experienced users kind of the teachers who can come and and be there be waiting for the students and and just people who support our message and who are interested in writing for us or sharing their own stories of healing and how are you avoiding trolls you know prepare you just you just announced yourself to the world and the internet look people that listen to this podcast are not universally cool there's a certain percentage of them that are [ __ ] trolls and they will launch themselves upon you for uh you know in search of humor with with some really fake fake profound Tales of things happening to them in the jungle and guarantee you now it's going to be about titty grabbing while you're out cold it's going to be there's going to be several several stories of what the bad I did to me too late it's out there I think we're hoping the community
will self-regulate we'll give various people who there's already people out there who I'm sure you've interacted with show who have uh reputable Twitter accounts who've been really passionate about psychedelics who we've recruited to help us in our forums and just help us we also have a section on the site where you can post links to different news stories and stuff that you find interesting so we have these people on board to help us kind of regulate that being said you can't you can't fight everything yeah so we're expecting it to come but uh we're so the team behind this we all met doing IU ASA and we we've all been so profoundly affected that that we want to bring this new uh creation forward to to try to help others W that's the new Amber Lion there you go folks tripping around the world wow Amber Lion version 2.0 reset wow well congratulations on uh congratulations on everything on your journey on the this website and the whole thing I think you're a very brave person and I thought you were very brave person when you were uh talking about your experiences at CNN and you you stick your neck out you know you really do and so uh it's cool to be your friend it's cool to watch all this happen and it's uh it's cool to have you on the show thank you very much thank you Joe it's such an honor it's been a lot of fun Amber Lion ladies and Gentlemen please follow Amber on Twitter Amber Lion on Twitter L yo n and uh go to the website reset.me it's reset.me and uh within a month or so there'll be some [ __ ] up there and uh I'm sure Amber will keep you posted on Twitter and will keep you posted on Twitter too so thank you thank you thank everybody thanks to our sponsors thanks to Lumosity go to lumosity.com Joo click the start training button start and start playing your first game that lumosity.com Joo click the start training button and thanks also to on it.com go to o n niit t use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements thanks also to Legal Zoom Legal Zoom go to Legal zoom.com and enter Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more savings we'll be back in a little bit with Matt the Tera the Tera sah and then uh Thursday uh Shane Smith from vice.com will be here as well we're going to have a
[ __ ] great time we'll probably get drunk see you soon much love [Laughter] [Music]