Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8LtKdikuTE
this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by on it.com that's o nni t a human optimization website we sell [ __ ] that makes your body work better whether it's nutritious supplements like uh or snacks like the warrior bar this is one of our new products um made by the same company that makes the Tonka bar which uh is a uh a buffalo bar like a buffalo jerky bar with natural cranberries a natural Native American recipe no antibiotics no added hormones gluten-free and no nitrates either it's an ancient way of um uh making this uh sort of um meat bar they're only 140 calories 4 grams of fat and uh 14 grams of protein super healthy for you no MSG no soy no lactose gluten-free no nitrates no antibiotics I mean you can't get any better as far as like healthy high protein snacks and they're [ __ ] delicious um it is the the real original Native American recipe of doing it with cranberries try it it's yummy snack um we just try to sell whatever we find that uh is is available for sale that uh makes you feel better it's things that make your body work better whether it's trun functional strength that you can acquire from strength and conditioning equipment like kettle bells or battle ropes or weight vest or AB Wheels we just try to sell the things that we use and at on it.com whether it is supplements like Alpha Brain or whether it's a hemp Force protein powder all the things we sell are things that I use Aubrey my partner uses and things that we find that are are interesting um all of the supplements have science behind them there's all a sheet with references uh showing you why the ingredients were chosen and what the benefits of those ingredients are we also have a 90day 30 pill 100% money back guarantee on any of the supplements you buy from on it if you don't like the way it works or you don't think it's worth it you don't even have to return the bottle you just get your money back uh that's just cuz we're trying to sell you the best [ __ ] we can sell you all things that we use and do it in a very ethical way go to on it.com nnit T use the code word Rogan and you will save 10% off any and all supplements we're also brought to you by well this episode is brought to you by Nature Box um nature box is uh my my
newest addiction around the office and a lot of people on my message board had questions about exactly how healthy it is well you can vary it at NatureBox you could be like a real freak and go uh the gluten-free route which is how I did it or you can get a little sketchy with [ __ ] like pretzels let's be honest it's only you can only make pretzels so healthy there's really not a lot you could do to them that makes them actually healthy pretzels are [ __ ] pretzels man uh but what Nature Box do have they they're there products are natural and contain a much higher quality ingredient than the typical vending machine food ingredients they're there's over a 100 snacks to choose from and if you're looking for something with certain dietary needs like wheat free lower sugar content Etc they have that too and whenever possible they try to use non-GMO food as well their products are made from wholesome ingredients and nutritionist approve they abide by very strict quality standards no high fructose corn syrup no P partially hydrogenated oils no trans fats no artificial sweeteners no artificial colors and no artificial flavors so it's way healthier than most [ __ ] that you're getting from vending machines that's the idea behind it and again you can get it as variable as like fairly healthy pretzels or what my favorite really healthy is these things are delicious man I got these sweet blueberry almonds oh they're so ridiculous they're so good I ate them all up I need more um and these plantains are [ __ ] delicious too and these are pretty guilt-free you know South Pacific plantains um naturebox.com really very cool company I enjoy them their snacks uh so go there and check that [ __ ] out and we're also brought to you well I got to give you a code go to naturebox.com Rogan that's naturebox.com Rogan go there and you will get 50% off your first box so naturebox.com Rogan I'm telling you try these sweet blueberry almonds they're [ __ ] ridiculously good and guilt free they free uh they ship for free also anywhere in the US nature box is busting up the vending machines Monopoly on your midday hunger naturebox.com Rog we're also brought to you by Legal Zoom and this is the last one I swear Legal Zoom is a way to do
all sorts of legal things online uh from the comfort of your home instead of actually having to go to a lawyer's office and schedule an appointment it's also a company that we have used Brian redb used it Auburn used it to secure on it and and make it in LLC super easy to do things like that online they guide you through it they also have third-party independent attorneys that they can connect you to if you ever get into a panic and think that you're going to jail cuz what you're doing is totally illegal they can let you know uh Legal Zoom is not a law firm but they can connect you with a third party attorney and provide you with self-help services and the self-help services are very easy to follow um in the past 12 years over 2 million Americans have used Legal Zoom and they've saved a ton of money things like you start your own business and incorporate form an LLC for starting at 99 bucks you can protect your family with a last will for just 69 bucks or get a living trust power of attorney and Legal Zoom is recommended by nine out of 10 customers that have used it which is an incredible number when you think about how many douchebags there are there in the world one out of 10 for sure one out of 10 people's a [ __ ] idiot so if nine out of 10 say that Legal Zoom is worth doing again I would say it's a very good company they also have an A+ from the Better Business Bureau and that's very important so just think of that legal zoom.com use the code word Rogan at checkout uh use the word Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more savings that's legal zoom.com it is an a awesome surface okay ladies and gentlemen Peter Giuliano am I saying it correctly perfect is here we're going to talk about some coffee we're going to get some knowledge you can play the music joast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day I love when people are really really really into [ __ ] and you sir are really really really into coffee that's true and what's important about people like you is that people like me who really do love coffee but I know nothing about it and I'm not going to do all that research it's just not going to happen man it's just too just too much work I need someone like you out there that's
obsessed with coffee that can bring me some coffee that smells like lemons I'm here for you what is this stuff that you brought you brought this Ethiopian L that was warm when we got it yeah that okay so um I brought you Ethiopian coffee because okay at some point so I'm a coffee guy right I've been working in coffee for years 25 years or more and when you're a coffee guy everybody asks you their coffee questions and the number one question that people start asking you is what's your favorite coffee you know everybody wants to know that so um now most coffee people when they're asked that question lie a little bit the way I lied was I would say uh that's like asking a parent who their Fair favorite child is you know what I mean you can't you're not allowed that's ridiculous that's you know you got a coffee problem right right yeah you're not allowed to do that right you're not allowed to do that you're not allowed to play play favorites Etc but uh putting that lie aside most coffee people are affectionate about coffee from Ethiopia CU that's where coffee's from originates in originates in Ethiopia pour some of that beautiful [ __ ] out it smells so good by the way what is the name of this particular blend that you made well it's from it's called jurf and and um yurf is the name of a town in southern Ethiopia and uh it is in coffee to Coffee people yurf is like Mecca yeah that's the spot this smells unbelievable that's why and that's why it it it's uh it's so famous the coffee smells sort of like flowers and um and then like lemons like lemon oil or something and that's really unique if you if you taste coffee that tast that smells and tastes like this it's almost certain that it comes from Ethiopia because because of the variety they grow there because of the way that they process it Etc it makes it really special so um this was roasted by a by a company in San Francisco called Wrecking Ball coffee um and the coffee is called uh Ethiopia classic yurf classic meaning how do you spell yurf again yig G um y i g r Wait y i r g sorry y i r g a c h e f f e isn't it a weird thing when you have to write it down to look at it to make sure it's right well the other weird thing too is that that's one way to spell it there's like if you're in yog chef and you look at signs they're all spelled a different way because it's
actually in mhar it's a different language and they and they just translate it to English in various ways so you can spell it there's I've been involved in Internet okay here's another coffee geek admission I've been involved in these internet conversations about how you should spell yoga and also how you should pronounce it that in in Ethiopian they pronounce it differently in a way that I can't actually pronounce it you what how do they say it give it a shot URF URF yeah exactly that last thing is like an it's like a breathing out but you just did it how come you didn't do that you feel there was an Ethiopian guy next to me yeah exactly you feel like you know it's like saying I've just been to Roma or something yeah that is a weird thing my friend Amber Lion who's coming on the podcast soon uh she was talking about bahin you know instead of bahin which tell she was saying bahin but then she she let it go and she said Bahrain I'm like wait a minute it's got to be one or the other well it's like here in Southern California when the newscaster suddenly just goes into the perfect Spanish pronunciation something oh yes you know burito yeah exactly that's very important if you want to maintain the Latin audience you got you got to roll your RS B but anyway I don't try for that with coffee names cuz it's a little too wild well you're taking a chance on being like already like kind of labeled as a Crazy Coffee person but if you could pronounce all the words ex then the pretentiousness level gets very risky well it's you know that's a thing with being a coffee person you know because people are afraid that you're going to be like a kind of a douchebag about about about your coffee you know because because it's a weird conundrum because on the one hand people like that you take it seriously and and because you're trying to you're trying to make you know Embrace something that's super delicious right and you want it to be more delicious and better tasting and stuff like that and so that causes you to learn stuff about the geography of where coffee comes from and all this weird trivia you know and and uh you start to learn about that stuff and it's good and but at the same time it's very easy when you get really into something to start to alienate people you know and
that goes for anything that goes for wine or food or you know any sort of hobby you know um when people can't talk about anything else and then they start to get kind of snobby about stuff and but and so it's a struggle for coffee people all the time you know because what I know and I've learned in my many years of doing this thing is that especially in the morning you know people just want their coffee right they don't want to [ __ ] around with with you know all this stuff like that and we learn that in in you know so I started as a barista I worked for many many years as a barista behind the car behind the bar making people their coffee in the morning so do you really appreciate like when someone's a connoisseur like the difference between a guys like I just want a cup of coffee and a guy is like what's your Blends today a guy like who's really into it well lots of times it's the same person like like a person that later in the day will be like all into what kind of coffee it is and really particular everybody just their first cup of coffee they just want a freaking cup of coffee even even coffee Pros like me you know we dispense with all that stuff that that time when you you know you you've been there you wake up in the morning you don't know what's going on all you want is a cup of coffee and people to be nice to you for the first couple of hours of your day usually most of the time when I don't have any time and I just want some sort of caffeine product I have one of those little espresso things where you put those little capsules in there and you crunch it down you press the button and a shot of espresso comes out yeah yeah um are those bad well doesn't taste as good as Realo that's the thing they're convenient you know and and whether they're they there's a lot of disadvantages to a to a thing like that on the other hand I've tasted delicious coffee out of out of those really if the coffee going in is is good if the machine is working right I mean there's all sorts of different kinds of machines you know what is the the I don't expect you to know this because you don't manufacture these things but what is the they're plastic right is that what it is like a metal or a plastic there are some that are made out of aluminum others that are made out of plastic yeah yeah I
think the ones I have are aluminum so is that stuff okay for the flavor when you're heating that up if you're heating up the aluminum doesn't mess it up yeah that's not the problem the problem that's aluminum's pretty you know resistant to stuff like that and they make that metal work you know it's like a soda pop can so they've engineered it to work well so it's not an issue with flavor it's just an issue of what's in it well right and also how the how the machine works so if like you guys made coffee here today and you did it in a great way by boiling the the water in a kettle and then you have a French press and you use it now the great thing about that is that you're boiling the water the water is getting to 212 that's where it boils and then by the time you pour it in The French Press it's cooled off maybe it's 207 205 is that where you should have it at 195 to 205° is where you should be coffee [ __ ] crazy he you got so intense you're like 195 to 205° this is the Honey Spot I know it is it's the Honey Spot that's what that's where we get you know guys like me get fired up over stuff like this well we bought today is the first day of using it here um what I have home which is I think it's called brille b r v i l l e and it's uh it'll show you like you could have one button for oolong T the other button for french press and so this was the French press button so I assume they get it right then that's even better then what it did and this is brevel they make some wonderful inred yeah coffee equipment yeah they do and uh and so the the French press button will I'm sure get it to 205° we should put a thermometer in that [ __ ] find out whether or not yeah I bet it does find out we need a thermometer JY very important um well that's the thing guys like me we have thermometers at home because we it makes a difference so no but check this out so I believe you what I was going to say is the machines whether it's a a pod machine or a capsule machine like you're talking about or a Mr Coffee type machine black and deck whatever all those kinds of coffee machines one of the big challenges with those things is if they don't get hot enough if they're brewing coffee at 180° it's going to taste like crap oh okay so you're cooking it while
you're Brewing it yeah exactly so the water is hot you know some amount of hot and if it's and if it's the right amount of hot in between 195 and 205 right about 200° then it makes the coffee taste better so it actually literally changes the flavor that's coming out of the beans when it's hot enough to activate it right so and too hot is bad too hot's bad and so here's here's the deal with coffee it's like if you looked at it under a m microscope took a slice of it and then looked at that under a microscope you'd see all the cellular structure of the coffee and it's like a sponge and inside the sponge is all the oils and sugars and fats and stuff that make really complicated it's you know thousands of little different chemicals in there that um that you need to get out of the sponge you need to essentially rinse it out of the coffee to get it into your cup and that's what Brewing is all about now now um if you don't do that well enough you leave all the good tasting stuff in the coffee that sponge the coffee cell walls you know and it doesn't get in your cup and your and your coffee doesn't taste very good and plus you've wasted all the good stuff you wind up throwing it in the trash if the opposite thing happens if you extract too much out of the coffee if you squeeze that sponge Till It's Perfectly dry then the last stuff to get extracted tastes kind of bitter and uh like tanic it it doesn't it doesn't taste good it has a a a characteristic that we call overe extracted and so that bitter tannin comes from a prolonged exposure to hot water either the water being too hot or you Brewing it for too long or uh or like if for example if you boiled coffee like they used to do in the cowboy days they used to like boil coffee over the campfire that will make the coffee taste bitter and acrid and awful and because it's overe extracted and that overe extraction is what creates tannins uh right well not tannin specifically but those that tanic sort of flavor it's makes a stringency flavor taste in your mouth and that bitterness is from the heat itself it's from ere extracting it's extracting bad tasting stuff out of the coffee so it extracts all the good tasting stuff but then there's an additional extraction exactly of bad tasting stuff too that's
fascinating so you want to get the stuff that's like loose there's like a ripe fruit almost it's right it's like right in the middle it's this sweet spot and so this organization that I work for called the specialy coffee Association we in the 1950s they started to do some science about this and how to brew coffee properly and get the coffee to where it tasted best to the most people and they had thousands of people tasting different coffees you know and they determined what the uh perfect extraction of a cup of coffee was to most people in the in the world and um and then we then they designed uh amount of extraction so I'm going to get technical on you again okay so 10 I already told you 195 to 205 is the right temperature the extraction that you want to get is between 18 and 22% extraction now this is coffee geek stuff that nobody wants to hear but this is the kind of stuff that we talk to each other about wow and and so uh and so like good if you have a favorite coffee place where the Brees are like really good and they make the coffee taste really good chances are they know about that extraction window and they're trying to get the coffee within that extraction window so it tastes great if you exceed 22% um and something closer to 30% of the coffee is actually extractable you could get 30% of the material out of the coffee if you wanted if you totally squeeze the sponge dry but 18 to 22% is where it tastes good w wow that's crazy now you uh jumped at the chance to uh pour this coffee and to uh to brew this coffee yourself you didn't want us [ __ ] it up well well it's true with good reason neither Jamie nor I know what the [ __ ] we're doing he seems like he knows what he's talking about I doubt it trust me he learned everything from me we know a little bit you know um but when um it comes to these sort of things like uh times of extraction and temperature does it vary depending on what kind of coffee you have like this is Ethiopian coffee would you have a different if it was a Jamaican yep it absolutely does and and so when um when coffee Pros sort of start to work with a coffee will experiment with different temperatures different kinds of extraction different coarseness of grind to try to to try to get it right find The Sweet Spot yeah we call it dialing
it in so so if we're like if if uh if a uh if you're with a group of coffee people and there's a new coffee you'll ask somebody did you dial it in and that means that means did you get it tasting the way it should be tasting wow and so what are the variables like what like how much is the Spectrum the variance between say what's like an extreme give me an extreme on each end of of what of like Brew times and temperatures and what's the difference okay I it so every there's a first of all there's a lot of different yeah yeah stuff's delicious thank you um there's a lot of different uh I'm gonna have a little more too um it does smell really unique yeah it's it's really beautiful clean clean floral coffee yeah it's so different we usually have this uh Hawaiian stuff lately yeah Hawaii Roasters drinking that it's really delicious cool yeah this is this is probably like the polar opposite of that actually it's very different um it smells amazing yeah the that's the thing about this coffee is it's super uh fragrant yeah in a very unusual way like it doesn't smell like coffee it's almost like a tea it's almost like tea exactly right um that's I would describe this coffee as being teal likee yeah it's really beautiful and uh so anyway so there's all these different ways to brew coffee so you've got a French press here there's uh pourover coffee or drip coffee that us you those vacuum things what are those little vacuum vacuum things uh you might be talking about an aop press yeah are those good yeah coffee people love them um and each one of those has a different deal so like in this french press coffee will steep for a while sort of like and then you press it down and whatever and how long do you usually steep it well four to 6 minutes is kind of a window really yeah now how does something like a clover work then because the Clover that crazy computerized coffee machine that cooked it very quickly very quickly right so the way that that works is it's designed to be able to have fine finer coffee you know so um uh which changes the changes the extraction right surface area right if you if you grind it really fine then it can it can Brew it can extract really quickly so that's why like in an espresso machine it's ground like to a powder pull that video up of the Clover
machine just you can see what we're talking about for folks who don't know some genius guys who are coffee uh nerds sorry yeah Xander Nosler he's I guess I'm a coffee nerd too I'm just uneducated uh but uh from Stanford University correct um and they figured out this machine which costs some upwards of tens of thousands yeah like 11,000 bucks and uh I've never thought about buying one until I watched someone do it and and use it and I was like oh this might be the [ __ ] coolest thing ever like for a real coffee dork and then I found out that Starbucks bought them all they bought them yeah those sons of [ __ ] and I don't even see them I never see them in a Starbucks oh yeah they have them but they're not why they sell them well Starbucks should [ __ ] sell them I buy one of these for the office they might sell one to you if they would I would be totally willing to buy one of those and just put it in this office I'll see if I can make that happen dude it's going to happen the yeah but I used to have one in my office this this is incredibly variable this thing if you've never seen it is this really beautifully constructed it looks like a giant piston like a car engine piston and uh you pour coffee in it and the water in it and you stir it with like a little whisk and then dial in the coffee based on the known recipes for that coffee right exactly and so and it was made really fancy you yeah it could communicate with other Mach maches and you could send the recipe from one machine to another that's creepy they're going to take over yeah coffee machine's going to take over and at the end it's really unusual it leaves this hockey hockey puck of grinds at the top of the machine and then you have this squeegee which is kind of an elegant way to deal with that little problem of what do you do with the coffee grinds and they come off that piston but it comes up like a cheeseburger it's so weird looking coffee Burger coffee is that what you call it and then you slide it in with this little like gas station windshield wash squeegee thing yep it's [ __ ] badass yeah and so um on the uh so the reason that that can happen so quickly is because you can use fine coffee because it's got that hydraulic piston that sort of pushes it up right that's incredibly strong it's
got these these this metal filter that the coffee grounds kind of sit on top of and so it's a quasi pressurized situation somewhere in the same realm as as uh the aess you're talking about something similar and by the way the air press is essentially a home you know $50 version of that and it's just as good and yeah all right [ __ ] the Clover then yeah Jesus Christ we almost we just saved ourselves 11 Grand or whatever it is 11 Grand that was really designed for like a coffee service envirment seem so badass though man I'm a big fan of that kind of Technology the fact that they I wanted to support them the fact that they were willing to go out and invest the money to make something like that design it have you seen the the uh steampunk yet okay there's all these great coffee machines out there there's one called steam punk pull it up and uh and this is a recently uh uh designed machine and it's got It's like got these glass tubes and Bubbles and you know all this crazy [ __ ] you're you're going to love it when you see what is what is the benefit of that machine it's just another um it it actually works on a very similar principle to all these things um but the all coffee machines are designed to make it easier to do what I said before the the uh yeah that's the that's the steampunk so that's that all each of those looks like a pirate Chambers yeah each of those chambers Brew Coffee whoa um and uh now interestingly you might it's got a computer screen on it yeah it's yeah and that computer screen is to dial in all these all these variables wow you know so recently what's better that or the Clover too much pressure yeah answer your question that's like asking me what my favorite child is okay I'm sorry I AP I can't play favorite no but the but it's right up there with the clo yeah yeah absolutely how much is that ban uh that's a good question I don't know the answer to that I would guess in the same sort of R range but and all of these things now I'm going to tell you something else which is these these machines all they do is make it easier to brew coffee like this so you've got you've got some pretty sophisticated um equipment in your kitchen this is all what he's doing right here this is the right stuff wow this is wild man this
makes me feel like a scientist though I'd like to have that it's kind of laboratory stuff very mad scientist and so the water's boiling in one of them and then the coffee is in the other one is that what's going on here right well like the one in the middle is kind of getting ready you know and they're GNA he's going to dump some coffee in there he's in the one on the right it's already extracting uh the coffee and these little those little uh Pistons are there to sort of be the filters of the coffee it's a complicated machine and yeah I would say so a couple weeks ago here in Los Angeles there was a uh there was a a battle between um a guy called Nick Cho Nick Cho is the is the guy who own he's one of the owners of this coffee company who roasted this coffee we're drinking and then the inventor of that machine the the the steampunk went head-to-head and had like a Man versus machine kind of thing and Nick was just using very simple um little Brewer that he poured the water on just totally manual and then the other guy was was uh was man the steampunk and they were like having this head-to-head where they each had to brew six different coffees for these three judges and they couldn't see what they were drinking all this stuff and uh now the the so the result was that the steampunk machine won by a hair it was is essentially a tie that the uh um uh and the point is that you can you can make coffee delicious by being really good at mastering the variables knowing what your your knowing what grind looks right knowing how hot the water is ETC or you can entrust that stuff to a machine and that's what machines do they they just get the water right every time they get the they get the what we call the turbulence like how much it gets stirred right every time and if you can replicate something very precisely again and again and again the coffee is going to be really good I get a sense though that you're a purist and that you prefer to use manual equipment almost like if you drove a car you would want a manual gearbox are you that guy I am that guy well I told I told somebody somebody was interviewing me for something a while ago and I told them I don't own a coffee machine in my house and I don't that I have essentially the same setup that you have a a water boiler that
boils the water for me a good grinder I know she have a good grinder in there um and uh some home style pouring you know I use a basically very cheap $30 French Press do you have a French press yeah I have a French press I usually use paper filter though just because I prefer the flavor do you really okay that's an interesting thing to bring up because um one of things that I like about uh French Press is when you get that that sort of bubbly surface and then when you pour it into a mug you get kind of like a little foam on I like that do you still get that when you go through a paper filter no that's exactly what it takes out but that seems like that's a good thing to it's a good thing to you and that's great so you know you you don't like it flavor-wise you know this okay so we're tasting it now can you taste in your mouth how you feel like there's you can still taste the coffee a little bit yeah and it's coating your mouth sort of like as if you just drank a glass of milk or something mhm okay so that's called body or aftertaste and aftertaste those are those are technical coffee tasting terms um and so body is the feeling the texture of the coffee in your mouth and aftertaste is the flavor of the coffee that remains in your mouth once you're gone once it's gone and aftertaste especially is really important because you drink coffee in the morning you're driving to work you still have that flavor of coffee in your mouth if that's good then that's great then you get you get an extra 20 minutes out of your cup of coffee it's a bonus if it's bad if it's a bad flavor and you feel like you need a mint then that's like a bad aftertaste right and so you either you're used to drinking good coffee you like that feeling in your mouth you like that flavor in your mouth you like aftertaste that's good you're brewing coffee the right way for me I I just tend to want to move on to the next flavor whatever it is whether it's oh you're such a coffee geek you want to like geek out with a bunch of different flavors in your mouth all day wow you're taking it to a new level you went with a paper filter just to remove aftertaste so you can move on to the next flavor couldn't you like rinse it out with some Selter water or something like that people do that yeah
maybe eat some ginger like you do with sushi yeah would that work I get yeah it would pallet cleanser it would you could do pet cleansers do you have to brush your tongue or anything like that in between people do there are people that scrape their tongues man I don't I don't do any of that mess you know that's the the dark end of the pool that's people where you can't see the bottom yeah your coffee geeking out in the most hardcore way ever yeah so this is a very delicious coffee and you uh one of the things that I noticed is that you um you serve it completely black you you don't [ __ ] around with coffee fillers or sugars I don't but I I mean generally cof we coffee people don't judge people that that do that everybody's always apologizing to me appreciate that that's really sweet do you put stuff in your coffee yeah usually yeah usually we well this is why I wanted you to try this this is uh coffee wh mixed with grass-fed butter and MCT oil we found about this from uh can I get it from here yeah yeah this is a Hawaii roaster right is this Hawaii roosters Rusty Hawaiian it might be I think it's that Rusty rusty rusty Hawaiian and so um this uh I found out about this from this dude Dave aspey he calls it Bulletproof Coffee and apparently uh a guy named Rob wolf uh he was the first guy to figure it out and what it is is coffee mixed with grass-fed butter and MCT oil and then it's Blended and the idea being that blending it all up like that has uh you get all the healthy fats mixed in with the caffeine of medium chain triglyceride o it's like um palm oils and mostly coconut oils you take the they spin it in a centrifuge and extract it I don't know the exact process but it's uh essentially healthy fats yeah and uh then it's all mixed with this and the benefit of it is that because it's all connected to the fats you get sort of a slow burn a slow release I get the impression from you though that you [ __ ] hopped up on coffee all day in a bunch of different kinds you don't need no slow release you just riding that boat right into the Rocks it's it's interesting there was something you said earlier like as we were getting started you were talking about oh you were talking about the bars at the top of the show you the meat bar
or something like that yeah yeah the warrior bar right okay the um Buffalo and uh cranberry bar so there's a story in coffee and uh we don't know if it's if it's true or not but this is the legend is that in ancient Ethiopia that Ethiopian Warriors would take the fruits of the coffee so coffee grows like a fruit it's got you may have seen pictures it looks like a cherry yeah I have and the two beans are like flat up against each other like the pits of the Cherry but around that is like a fruit layer like a sweet fruit layer the fruit tastes sort of like it's kind of slimy but it tastes like a mix of uh of watermelon and Jasmine and then there's a kind of a tough leathery skin outside and the legend says that the Ethiopians would take that fruit and make a ball with uh animal fat and some stories say butter and Other Stories say like like uh um uh like cow fat and they would make balls out of them and put them in their their packs and then just before a battle these Warriors would eat this this like power bar thing and it was like fat from the from the uh from the animal fat to give you energy and and kind of and then the sugar from the coffee fruit to give that blast of energy and then the caffeine together now some people say that this is like an invented story other people say that that yeah that no this is what the ancient Ethiopians actually did before before fight fighting a battle what is known is that the ancient Ethiopians were known as especially intense Warriors how come nobody has recreated this we need an on it coffee ball yeah we need to make that right away that seems like something we need to try well when he said when you said coffee and butter that's what I thought of is is uh is that kind of thing those these coffee balls with butter maybe maybe that's what they're trying to kind of recreate here I don't know well um this is uh apparently the original uh people been putting ghee you know what ghee is they've been putting that in coffee for a long time uh but there was also like a yak tea that uh the himalayans used the Tibetans used that was uh mixed with uh this Yak butter and tea to make like this creamy sort of a concoction I like what I like about the mixing it with the butter in the MCT is
that it gives you like a longl lasting like effect of the caffeine your body has to break down all those fats and sort of Blended and connected with the caffeine you don't get it as a big burst like I drank this stuff this I haven't drinken Black Coffee in quite a while and with with nothing attached to it it's just like woo it just goes right into your system and you could you could feel yourself like pepping up um how do you avoid heart attacks it's interesting uh I a I don't you don't worry about just keep drinking coffee I'm just kidding obviously but but you do get a rush from this this is some strong caffeine coffee this is some strong stuff yeah I mean I guess I guess I don't really in a good way I'm not criticizing it no no I know and it's really uniquely delicious yeah um I'm I'm kind of shocked um my favorite coffee lately is this stuff called Rusty Hawaiian I've been drinking this a lot lately I know Rusty yeah woo God it's so good yeah God that stuff is good I just there's something I really love about coffee from the big island and I don't know what it is but I had first tried Hawaiian was it Hawaiian raster is the red bag that's uh I somebody told me about it like dude you got to try uh Hawaiian coffee and so I got a hold this stuff a while back and it's my alltime favorite coffee just has this like really sort of a um a dark Rich taste to it very very different from this stuff this Ethiopian stuff yeah so different deal if Coffee started there it started in Ethiopia is that now did people take the plants and plant them in other places is that what happened yeah so what happened was so the Ethiopians were the first ones to sort of discover coffee this is what we have here which we usually drink that's my favorite the one in the red bag that's what is it called it has a name though it's like it says here it says mocha PE Berry from Maui yeah that's like a 94 um on their rated coffee okay so good man yeah but this is this is part of the story I can tell you I can like you were asking about coffee coming from Ethiopia Etc mhm okay so um uh yeah okay this is cool they're really tiny really tiny yeah and so um what happened was it's from the forests of Ethiopia um on the on either side of what's called The Rift Valley it's it's
where it's where the human species evolved it's where we evolved over there and coffee evolved in the same place so uh uh which is crazy to begin with yeah and and uh the Ethiopians consumed it somehow but then the uh somehow probably by the people on the other side of the Red Sea and what's now Yemen which was then called Arabia Felix this is like in uh about 1100 they said they said wait a second we they got some some of the Ethiopian slaves brought some uh coffee seeds over there and they started planting coffee in what's now Yemen um and they started growing it and it turned into a big deal and they were the first ones that actually exported it out of the out of the uh area so um and the biggest the port the main port at that time in Yemen was called mocha so you've heard you know of a cafe mocha or this coffee is called mocha mocha jaave yeah mocha Java all that stuff that's all a reference to this one port in Yemen wow and it's still there it's called almaka and wow and uh I thought mocha had something to do with chocolate chocolate yeah we we in the now in the European States yeah we kind of well it's that people were started adding chocolate to coffee that wasn't from there to try to make it taste like it was from there really so it had a natural chol natur chocolatey taste to it can you still get coffee from there it's very hard because it's Yemen you know it's creepy and spot yeah it's a it's a difficult place to do business with we need to make friends with Prince Nasim Hamed do you remember that guy no he was a boxer from Yemen badass dude did a lot of wild [ __ ] came in on a Magic Carpet oh crazy he was to dance around the ring Yemen's an amazing place I mean you i' I've never been there but I've seen lots of pictures I've known Lots of Y many people um but it's just politically little dangerous volatile spot that's unfortunate that sounds like it's some unique coffee out of there but so the so anyway so they brought when they brought coffee from Ethiopia to Yemen they brought only a few plants and then they used those to be the parents of all the the uh the coffee in Yemen and that they were the ones that exported It Anyway then but then this is in history they were growing coffee they
were exporting it other people said wait a second we want in on this coffee deal because you're making money selling coffee but they had a they had a penalty of death if you got seeds if you took seeds out of Yemen at that time if you got caught exporting fertile coffee seeds you could be put to death it was that valuable that valuable that's incredible and this is at a time where when like the English and the Dutch were fighting over the Dutch East Indies as the Spice Islands you know people all these everybody was trying to get some colonies going to export these cash crops and they saw coffee as a potential cash crop some Dutch spies successfully got some coffee out of Yemen and they planted it on and they had just won the war with the English over the Dutch East Indies and they planted the coffee that they stole from Yemen in what's now Indonesia on the island of java wow and they turned they they did great they they planted all these Farms they were producing coffee and that's why we still call Coffee Java wow wow so in mocha Java mocha Java is it and and you know 150 years ago those were the two places that made most of the coffee in the world the port of mocha in Yemen and the island of java in the Dutch East Indies wow and Ethiopia back then like if that's where it all started from they weren't exporting anything then they were just like letting it grow they were just drinking it themselves wow yeah and they they didn't build an export Market wow so so the then it gets weirder you ready yeah so uh the in the D at one point the Dutch and the uh French signed a treaty and like a you know some sort of treaty and as a gift the Dutch gave one coffee tree to the French one coffee tree and the French in like uh in France they built a uh hot house like a greenhouse just to hold this plant and it was the first it was the first Greenhouse in Europe what the first Greenhouse in Europe was for a coffee right and and they they planted other stuff there too but this coffee plant was like really special and and they used cuting from that plant um to plant they wanted to plant some stuff in the West Indies in the Caribbean um they wanted to plant some coffee the French did to for their colonies and so this one guy named Gabrielle de clue he was responsible for
bringing the coffee from France to martinque but so he brought this one plant and he had it in a glass box but the the they ran out of wind on the journey and the so they were stuck in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean Gabriel declue was sharing his water ration with this plant to keep it alive oh my God he managed to keep it alive planted it and that one plant was the parent of most the coffee in Central America South America Etc holy [ __ ] yeah so so now there's a scientific impact to this because all the genetic diversity that was in Ethiopia all the thousands of different coffee varieties that were in Ethiopia imagine how that got narrowed down from getting uh brought from Ethiopia to Yemen in the first place then whatever plants those Dutch spies uh stole to put the coffee in Java then that one plant that went to uh that went to the new world that went to France first and then to the new world that's uh they call it a genetic bottleneck so all the coffee outside of Ethiopia is kind of siblings to one another that's incredible and that and that's a problem for us because if there's a disease that that one genetic variety of coffee is is susceptible to it can wipe out the whole coffee deal it's so incredible that one particular area of the world was the only place where this stuff was growing and now it's considered to be a completely worldwide yeah oh yeah and the Ethiopians are kind of uh they're kind of pissed off about that seriously if you go and you talk to them and they're like cuz you know everybody says they identify coffee with Colombia right you knowz or right [ __ ] W man and they hate they hate Juan Valdez in in Ethiopia they're like that's our thing you know that's our thing that the world is getting rich on so um and but that's right I mean that's true if you go to Ethiopia the the different kinds of flavors that you can get in coffee from Ethiopia is crazy compared to any anywhere else I was saying so it's a genetic diversity is genetic diversity thing each each uh each Village in Ethiopia has their own variety of coffee that they grow traditionally wow and how many different varieties are there well that's a good question we don't know completely
they're still doing there's scientists that are out in Ethiopia right now trying to count all the different coffee varieties and the estimation is that there are somewhere between three and 5,000 different varieties of coffee growing wild in Ethiopia and outside of Ethiopia there's like 30 wow yeah wow yeah it's it's crazy that's nuts so every legit coffee connoisseur is like a big fan of Ethiopia do you have like an Ethiopia t-shirt that you wear yeah oh ethiop that's the spot it's like Brazilian jiu-jitsu Brazil is the spot right so Ethiopia it's the origin Center of origin right if you want to get into tawo you go to Korea right yeah wow that's amazing man so um this particular blend that we had um is from Ethiopia and um what are the variables in Ethiopian coffees like what's this is uh sorry say the name again how do you say it again jurf jurf and this jurf is a fruity sort of floral one but I would assume that with thousands of different varieties you get a broad spectrum of different flavors right so so in uh so just north of of yurf is a kind of a larger area and actually YF is within an area called um sadama is the name of the region and we call coffees from there sad oh so sados are similar to yurf but they're not as floral they tend to be sweeter they taste sort of like honey to me so yeah they have a honey like character what's a good name for one if someone wants to try one of those saddamo any any saddamo and spell that how s i d m o as so any Sadam no particular check out sad yeah yeah there's different ones the the the the names that you get besides sedamo will often be um uh or even yurf will often be the specific name of a washing station where they wash the coffee itself ah and uh and so you can get geeky about that but sad way in well you people develop favorite favorite washing spot yeah yeah and what's the variables in the the washing process changes the way the flavor is yeah so um yeah and then I noticed I I listened to a podcast you did recently that had a nutritionist and you were talking about washing washed coffee being important yes and I thought I could explain that process to you if you want me to yes please okay so it's all about how the I told you that coffee beans are like two seeds inside of a cherry right and you got to get
that fruit off because if you don't get the fruit off it can mold and spoil and taste yucky so the whole challenge with coffee is to is to do something with that fruit layer before it spoils okay and cuz like any fruit so any kind of fruit you pick it and then you either you either do so what the E ancient Ethiopians did is they just picked it and they set it on the ground or on a mat to dry and the and the and the the the coffee would sort of turn shrivel up turn into a raisin and once it was totally dry they'd pound it in a mortar and pesel and the seeds would separate from the dried up husk and then you could roast the seeds and drink the coffee so um that was the original method of doing coffee but when they moved coffee from Ethiopia which is very warm and dry and they could they could grow it in Indonesia and in Central America but um and it would grow fine but when they tried to dry it it was tougher because there's more rain there it's more humid and the coffee would mold and get musty and taste crappy so in in Costa Rica they invented a different thing and what they did was they ran it through a machine that would take strip off the the the the leathery skin yeah well the leathery skin but it would leave this slimy fruit you know and it's sort of like you know if you eat a peach and some of the right it sticks to the seed and that's exactly what happens to coffee it's the the sticky fruity stuff is sticking to the seed and you got to get it off so what they did was they let it ferment for about a day and if you let that stuff ferment in a bucket or a whatever a tub for about a day then it it's it loosens itself through magic it's like amazing it's it's uh the bacterial action and yeasts and stuff act on that stuff to dissolve it and then you can wash it away with water it just rinses right off that's wet processing that's wet processing and then once that sticky slimy sugary stuff is rinsed away then it's very easy to dry the coffee in the sun it dries in a few days and then you can husk it and send it for roasting so there's a difference between drying it out and then roasting it it must be dried out first and then it must be roasted later right so there's right so and those two processes those two major processes we call them either dry
processing and wet processing or the natural method and the washed method so washed and and wet processing are the same thing and dried and natural is the same thing so so in a certain way um changing climates and moving coffee plants to other Geographic locations presented a lot of pretty unique challenges absolutely for coffee which they were doing in the 19th centuries seems so different than anything else which is also a fruit that you would grow I mean you just take it when it's ripe and you eat it when it's ripe yeah but this seems like a really complicated thing that they because we're eating the seeds too I mean unlike most fruits most fruits aren't cultivated for their seeds is there um outside of the seed the isn't the extract like the outside doesn't have some sort of nutritional benefit sure well it's I mean it's it's a fruit it's got sugar and and it's got um what does it taste like it tastes like um uh I always say it's like a mixture of of watermelon and uh Jasmine really yeah it's beautiful it sounds delicious oh it's delicious it's totally delicious how come you can't just buy coffee fruit well you can the problem is that if they coffee doesn't really grow around here right so by the time they got it to you it be spoiled yeah but they do here's a few things for you and I should have brought some for you they they some places they keep the fruit that they husk off and they dry that too and you can make sort of like a beverage out of that by soaking that beverage in water treating it like tea oh and they do that in Ethiopia and in Yemen they call it hasara in Yemen they call it kisher in in in I mean the hashar in Ethiopia kisher in Yemen and and so it's another beverage that comes from coffee it's sweet um it's got plenty of caffeine really yeah and uh why isn't that more popular it seems like that'd be more popular yeah it's interesting he would think that that would be maybe that's a new thing it's kind of yeah how say what you call it again well a lot of places that that sell it here call it kascada c a s c a r a that's the Spanish word for Cascada did now is that something that Starbucks could start selling they could yeah why don't they do that that's a good question [ __ ] wrong with you Starbucks get on the ball don't you [ __ ] like money but like
there's some there's other coffee companies sell it and it's kind of yeah it's it's kind of an it it's not satisfying in the same way that coffee is it's kind of an odity you'll you'll try it yeah I certainly will yeah you tell me what you think that sounds interesting kascar okay I got to remember that now um the the the actual uh Bean itself is there more caffeine in the fruity outer layer or is there more caffeine in the bean itself I don't know the answer to that okay but um it varies yeah and there's coffee that's true it varies and and uh there's caffeine in all parts of the the coffee plant oh so the leaves everything yeah it's there and what do the coffee plant even look like I don't even know what it looks like um it's about well it depends on the variety of coffee but generally they're about you know six or eight feet tall it's a bush yeah all I know about that is now that I'm realizing it's [ __ ] Juan Valdez man yeah Juan Valdez the only reason why I know they did they really got you attached to that burrow and him with his coffee beans absolutely yeah how how odd now is is there a variation in the caffeine content of beans from one part of the world to the other because there I've seen some thing called um kicking horse is that what it's called Kicking Horse Coffee claims to have excessive amount of caffeine in it yeah I don't well I don't know that brand but what they might be talking about is there's another species of coffee so um so there's the the species that we've been talking about from Ethiopia and all that stuff is called cafea Arabica is the name of that species okay so there's another species that comes from the western part of Africa and um it's called cafeic can but we call it Robusta have you ever heard of Robusta okay so Robusta comes from West Africa it doesn't taste as good generally um it's uh it it's sort it my in my experience it tastes sort of like burnt popcorn you know you know cheap diner coffee has that burnt popcorn kind of taste to it yes that's from the Robusta in it oh and they've used burnt popcorn yeah rubber yeah Star Diner in White Plains New York totally I used to eat at this [ __ ] place that this their coffee was just always like burnt popcorn I never even thought of that
right but it tasted like [ __ ] yeah so that's the Robusta in it now Robusta has a lot more caffeine than than than Arabica does no kidding but it also has a bunch of other chemicals that don't taste very good ah so that's why it's got such a jolt to it and tastes like [ __ ] so some people I've seen people talk about high you know high caffeine coffee they're just using Robusta in it to sort of to sort of amp up the the uh the the the caffeine level what is that thing floating around that's the scoop scoop I didn't take it out oh how dare you Jamie we're drinking plastic soup here um the uh but you know I mean obviously caffeine is an important part of whole deal without it the let's be honest this is a drug without it the the ride wouldn't be nearly as uh line be nearly as long it's true yeah but but a after that once you've satisfied the caffeine you know part um you start drinking coffee for what it tastes like you know and so and so people that are focused on on coffee flavor tend to deemphasize the jolt part and and emphasize flavor flavor part what is the the orig why does the plant produce caffeine in the first place like is did we know that yeah it's an Al it's called an alkaloid is the is the is the uh class of chemical that caffeine is and uh and there's in general plants seem to to produce alkaloids to drive away um predation yeah like insects and stuff like that okay so the insects eat the coffee they'll have a [ __ ] heart attack they fall out of the sky it's toxic to to Insects at a micro level and and animals a lot of animals as well right like from what I understand that's the reason why dogs uh don't like chocolate you shouldn't feed your dog chocolate that's another alkaloid called theob bromine ah so um uh so theob bromine uh uh chocolate has and it's very similar to caffeine it'll make you your heart you know and I talked to a veterinarian about this once and the problem with with dogs is they eat a bunch of chocolate and their heart pounds so fast they have a heart attack yeah from the from the tri from the uh theob bromine and it's like caffeine and and you know people say that that uh the chocolate has caffeine that the active thing is actually theob bromine which is this it's an alkaloid it's very similar it's a stimulant that works on dogs in a
different way than it works on humans yeah yeah it's the dogs are more susceptible to it that's fascinating because in humans it actually has some weird like representation of love right it gives you very similar that's what they say yeah yeah which kind of makes sense right they give chocolate to people you love yeah that's what they say yeah I mean I myself if I drink if I eat too much chocolate my heart pounds I can feel it much more than much more than well you're a hairy dude you're probably much more animal like that's that's yeah uh there was a recent article that I was reading today online about chocolate that chocolate is going to be extremely rare uh in the future because of our um our overc consumption of chocolate we consume so much chocolate they can't keep up with the production the demand can't keep keep up with the production and they've got a similar produ project uh problem that coffee does so so um gen problem a genetic problem and and uh and the same okay so chocolate is indigenous to South America um like coffee is indigenous to Africa uh Cacao is from Latin America and uh but then it's been spread all over the world has a narrow genetic base I mean all these tropical crops have these have these problems the other problem is climate change M um you know the climate it gets warmer these the the the suitable kind of environment for these very climate very temperature intolerant plants um Narrows diseases spread more easily etc etc it's a problem that is very interesting so you said that coffee can't be grown in the United States well it can mainly Hawaii is in the United States so in Hawaii um there's also one Farm here in California really up in Santa Barbara it's not far you could drive here in Santa Barbara yeah how's their coffee delicious really yeah and he but he only planted this Farm a few years ago no [ __ ] yeah it's called Goodland Organics so he's the only guy in America that's growing coffee on the lower 48 and it's because he's he's in a very unique kind of microclimate there there's actually if you go to his farm it can be warmer at night on this Farm than it is during the day because of the weird way that the weather Works around there Santa Barbara's Paradise it is it's beautiful it's amazing spot place
you should you should go to this Farm you really should he also grows amazing fruits like uh these these crazy Australian limes called finger limes that look like caviar inside um cheras have you ever heard of cheras they're very rare tropical fruit no never heard of that he grows all these insane fruits wow what's the name of his place good land Organics that's pretty cool that he's the guy that uh figures out how to uh grow coffee in California avocados he has there so lot of avocados in Santa Barbara right right so he he he got this avocado he's a he's a guy from here and I think he came from the here in LA and he got into Agriculture and he bought this farm that was an avocado Farm but then he started planting dragon fruit these finger limes um cheras all this stuff and he grows coffee there um and he's just like a really good fruit grower and he grew this coffee and and he uh uh he was telling me recently he's I mean this coffee that he grow he's planted the right varieties of coffee right including this one um the mocha variety that has these little tiny beans M um he's got that growing there Etc and and it's just now coming into Fruit you know one of the interesting things about coffee is you plant a coffee seed you don't start to harvest coffee from between three and seven years after you plant it wow so he's just now starting to reap the rewards of all these years and years of taking care of these plants that is fascinating dude you should grow coffee you love it so much why why are you not involved in growing it well yeah you need get a spot in Santa Barbara yeah a small patch of land in Santa Barbara and let the party begin I would love it I I've I've always traveled too much to like be at a at a farm so I mean I've spent the last um 15 or so years just traveling to Coffee Farms all over the world working with coffee Farmers to get their quality better and and uh and kind of learn about all this stuff stuff because that's kind of a new phenomenon too is is coffee roasting companies that are interacting more directly with farmers and getting the you know getting the quality thing really worked out understanding um what makes coffee great Etc so most Farmers that are growing
coffee they are they doing it just for a profit are there's are there places where you go and they're real Artisans is there a a broad variation it's mostly the first thing because mostly artisans no no no it's mostly yeah it's mostly well it's mostly small farmers struggling to get by so so going back to the history so the Dutch you know they planted their thing in in in Java and they basically Enslaved the local population to work on their on their coffee Farms this is in the you know in the 18th century the everybody was all the European powers were trying to get colonies everywhere so you know colonies the Spanish doing their colonies in Central America the French doing their colonies in in West Africa the English were trying to colonize Kenya the the uh the the Dutch were colonized the East Indi and they they kind of Enslaved the local population to grow coffee wow and and and so uh and so that was sort of a dark period in in world history and unfortunately coffee was part of that but since then so then you know the enlightenment happened uh democracies started to spread around the world but still many of these countries that were former former colonies were had poverty problems like Central America and stuff like that um the place that I started first started working with coffee Farmers was in Nicaragua and in Nicaragua was formerly a colony you know and and had that problem but then they had the revolution they they uh they dissolved a lot of these big farms and gave little Parcels of land to a lot of people that that used to work on the farm so here you have all these people that used to work on a farm that now have their little tiny Farm of them of their own and that's cool because then they've got you know they've got their own business their Farm it's going the problem is it's pretty tough in any country whether it's the United States or Nicaragua or anywhere to make a small farm profitable and so in many many parts of the world you've got small farmers that are just trying to get by you know and put food on their plates and so one of the one of the great things that coffee that special coffee companies can do is get engaged with those farmers and try to get the the celebrate the product get people to pay
more for it because it tastes really delicious and it becomes a better livelihood for Farmers all uh all across the world so your friend in Santa Barbara what was his name again that owns this place J rusy is his name and what's the name of the place again good land or Organics and so he is just a guy who loves coffee and decides I'm going to try to grow some stuff in Santa Barbara he loves growing he's he loves agriculture is what it and he thought it was a challenge to grow coffee I think I think he loves coffee too but I think really he loved the fact that it was a challenge to he likes these unusual fruits so it kind of takes a person with a sort of a deep commitment yeah to to make something like this take place otherwise it's a pretty significant investment in time and effort before you reap any rewards and there are those people too in coffee I mean even in you know in in uh El Salvador in Guatemala um in Panama in Brazil I know of I know of like amazing farmers in all these places who are like focused on like making the best imaginable coffee so now when you work with these people say if somebody contacts you and say Peter I don't know what the [ __ ] I'm doing come down here and help me grow some [ __ ] and coffee what what is your your process like let's say a guy from Hawaii calls you up says want to grow some coffee I don't know what I'm doing yeah well coffee is kind of an unusual I mean Hawaii is kind of an unusual situation cuz the University of Hawaii is involved and they can actually call up the University of Hawaii and get some they would they wouldn't need me in Hawaii okay so where would they need you South America yeah in in in these I'm a dude in Peru I'm TI bust for cocaine the first yeah in Peru I've done a lot of work in Peru and Bolivia MH and and uh and not just me I mean there's lots of there's lots of uh of people out there not and and in fact the the US government through usaid is out there trying to give uh give good support to these guys the first thing you do is you teach teach them to taste coffee and amazingly and some of your listeners may may have had this experience I've had this experience you go to wherever Nicaragua Costa Rica Peru or whatever a place that's famous for its coffee and you go into the hotel and they've got
NES Cafe and the you know instant coffee in the restaurant or whatever and it's because in a lot of these places people don't drink the cof they grow the coffee but they don't drink it and it's crazy that's so weird totally weird how's that happen because it's more valuable to export ah so they don't drink it just because it's not worth it it's worth not part of the culture that's interesting you know so it's not part of the culture yet it is it is it's part of the Agricultural culture but it's not part of the consumption culture wow it's weird okay uh Ethiopia is the only place and Brazil to some extent um where they drink coffee as much as they as they as they export it Brazil has the same issue the rest of South America where they have a very limited genetics and is that the same thing or yeah it's slightly different because Brazil is so much bigger right but um they more than one variety from brail yeah yeah in in general but um and and all these countries by the way are aware of this problem and are trying to diversify their genetics so do they contact you through the the coffee website is that how they go specialty coffee Association of America so in the in the uh yeah so in the uh about starting in 2000 or so we we uh we and our uh group that we're affiliated with called the coffee quality Institute put had this program called coffee core it's sort of like the Peace Corp for coffee people and guys like me would would uh would sign up and volunteer for two weeks to serve in a coffee farming community and if we had a SK we might have marketing skill or or uh accounting or tasting my my skill was tasting so I would go down and I would teach a coffee cooperative in El Salvador do you speak Spanish yes oh okay how to taste their own coffee and taste it like we do you know look for things like sweetness and flavor and Aroma and stuff like that and just that is like extremely powerful because if you're running a coffee farm and you and you know how to taste it like your buyer is going to taste it then you can say all right this tastes better I'm going to do this I'm going to grow it this way I'm going to dry it this way I'm going to ferment it this way Etc now when you say grow it this way what are the variables involved in changing the
flavor of coffee is it just climate or is it the soil content or is it something you add to the soil the way you water them what do you do well most the biggest thing is the climate and a lot of that is determined by altitude so remember Mrs Mrs Owen what on folders what was the lady I don't know anyway on the commercial she used to say Mountain grown folders Ah that's right yeah so uh and that's because coffee likes to be at high altitudes so in general the higher the altitude the farm is the better the coffee and then but a farmer has no control over the altitude of their their Farm but what they control is how much shade the the uh the coffee gets so they plant um trees next to the coffee to actually provide some shade for really so they have coffee and then like oak trees or some [ __ ] yeah usually it's a different they're different they're like Latin American indigenous something that large leaves Shady yeah and and uh and sometimes it's a fruit tree so they can get fruit as well from the yeah avocados Jay uses avocados in in uh in Santa Barbara for this purpose wow okay so he grows his avocado trees and then sandwiches them in between exactly so so the deal is um the coffee now a shaded coffee so coffee evolved under other trees it's called an understory shrub it it it naturally likes to be protected by other trees however if you take it out and put it in the full sun it'll be more productive it'll produce a lot more coffee but in general that coffee won't be as good so a a farmer has to like figure out the benefit you know I I if you puts it under shade the coffee will taste better but it won't be as productive so he has to sort of of balance and that's that's what happens in coffee all the time you know it's like the better you make it taste the less there is of It kind of thing and so a farmer is always trying to make that Balancing Act between having his farm be more productive versus having the quality be higher what is the ultimate taste expression what what is the the move to get forget about no money involved no no Financial reward you're only trying to achieve the the greatest taste ever what's what's the way to do that you start with a variety of coffee that's known for being really good tasting so there's these different varieties of coffee that we talked about
some of them taste really good some of them maybe are more disease resistant and don't taste as good because of that so you choose a good uh a good variety to start with the disease resistant coffees don't taste as good as the that's and what diseases specifically are they getting there's a disease and and you may have heard about it in the news it's actually a big deal right now it's called coffee rust and it's a fungal disease it it makes the coffee leaves get this powder on them that looks exactly like rust oh makes all the leaves fall off in the coffee plant so is it similar to like what's going like like um what is that disease that was uh hitting oh no that's the bark Beetle I was thinking of a bug but it's like that in that in that uh you know these these crops can be susceptible particularly if there's a narog gentic like talking about I see and what what specific where's this coffee rust like what is the uh is it all over the world or is it yeah it's all over the world um except uh it doesn't occur really in in Ethiopia so there's some sort of natural control happening in Ethiopia that seems to be the motherland is that like so if you're a real coffee dork you're going all due respect yeah yeah I mean that in a good way I get it if you're a real coffee Kazu Ethiopia is the spot that's where you want to get your coffee this for the strongest flavor the widest variety of flavor and because it's the OG I think so you know but then you know not to qualify that too much I mean there's amazing coffees from Central America Colombia is some of the most incredible coffees and there crazy diversity yeah and Hawaii like I said I really enjoy uh coffee from Hawaii it just seems to me to have a very different taste it does well what what causes that is it the volcanic ground can be um uh and then coffe Within Hawaii too can taste very different there's a there's a uh this is a Maui coffee yeah and I usually like the Kona coffees yeah Kona is the most well-known area on the big it's on the big island you know um and then it's got altitude you can once you go up that mountain that's the biggest challenge in uh in Hawaii I used to know some people that managed a coffee Farm in molakai which is a smaller Island not as much altitude
the coffee wasn't as good so um that's interesting yeah there's a place in in in Hawaii and on the on the big island called Mountain Thunder have you ever heard of this thing no great great coffee from Mountain Thunder from Thunder from the Big Island really delicious I'll get in there yeah but anyway um but in general coffee from islands like uh like uh Hawaii Jamaica places like this they've got a kind of a unique characteristic you might like coffee from uh from Indonesia or from Papa new guini damn this stuff has four stars yeah uh Indonesia and Pap gu you know I'm I I really enjoy coffee but until this conversation I Was a Fool yeah well you know ignorant fool I knew nothing I relied on too many unscrupulous people to fill my head with useless information this is what we do in you know coffee people this is what we do we get dial into what people like right and and you know show them other options if they want so to to continue what I was asking you before say if someone contacted you from let's say somewhere in South America and they wanted you to go over there and hey uh we need to fix our flavor profile what would you do besides planting trees so Step One is start tasting the coffee themselves okay and and and how can you how can you change that taste well okay so you can either shade the coffee or not you can you can uh you can one easy way that a farmer can change the quality of their coffee is how ripe it gets so as coffee gets riper it gets sweeter obviously but you don't want it to be too sweet or else it'll get like overly sweet and also get this kind of rotten character so figuring out dialing in there was a farmer I worked with in El Salvador um uh who like got super focused on how ripe she was going to pick her coffee and she wind up figuring out this is this is geeky and amazing is that if she let um the coffee get half of the coffee get to get ripe to where it was the color of blood uh or I'm sorry of wine right that burgundy and then half of the coffe cherries get to where they the color of blood like bright red like this um and Blended those together it was the perfect flavor wow what a dork and she dialed in but she's famous like they did a a a uh her name is AA B they did a uh a piece on
her in the New Yorker a couple years ago because she's become the rock star of in the coffee world that's so fascinating to me like I said when you sat down I love people that are really into [ __ ] when someone gets really into something as you are in coffee it's very infectious like you know I I want to like start trying all these different flavors now but I don't want to be hopped up out of my [ __ ] mind on caffeine all day well you don't have to drink that much either I mean it's like you know I've already drank five cups of this [ __ ] yeah yeah we can can space it out a little bit but it's really good but if you go to a coffee shop all the time they can blow your mind with a different flavor like all the time now how do you feel about a place like a chain like a big chain we don't even have to mention any names but one of those big chains that sells sort of you know generic coffee like does that you're talking about Starbucks I am talking about Starbucks does that make you sad when you see that these [ __ ] things are popping up all over the place no well let me tell you a story so I I started in coffee in San Diego I was running a coffee shop in the I started in ' 87 right so I was a barista in the early 90s and stuff and in 1994 we're running this coffee shop in San Diego and we got word that Starbucks was going to start opening stores in San Diego and everybody freaked out like oh my God we're done we might as well you know they're gonna they're going to drive us into the ground the the year that Starbucks showed up um was the busiest year that we had and every year after that it got busier and the great so the great thing that Starbucks has done and Starbucks is you know they they started in the 70s in Seattle a bunch of guys that really liked coffee and they just they just figured out how to grow this business um uh they taught in many ways they taught the world how to drink coffee they taught the world to drink coffee in many ways when I was a kid we used to drink coffee in the morning like before I would go to work or you know like um guys would go to Dunkin Donuts and like I was working on construction job sites guys would go to Dunkin' donuts and bring back coffees for everybody yeah but there was no like
going to a coffee shop and buying a coffee in the middle of the day right that that sort of Starbucks shifted people's mentality absolutely well it shifted their behavior too yeah sh like like Brian like he's the guy was here earlier he always got a [ __ ] venty coffee in his hand no matter where he goes he's got a Starbucks in his hand right and so and so and that's important you know so uh they've you know they've grown and gotten very ubiquitous and and stuff they've got shops all over the place but it's not that delicious it's not the best stuff it's well I mean you I know you're trying to be nice I don't want to accuse anybody of anything but okay let me put it this way in a very nice way instead of saying something negative about them which I use all the time by the way I'm not a Starbucks hater I I buy Starbucks all the time I have no problem with it and um if you were going to look for a very specific very um Gourmet type of coffee that's not where you would go um not a bad cup of coffee not a bad cup of coffee but if you want to go really you want to have some of this stuff and have it this way I wouldn't go to a Starbucks store because that's not what they're doing they're bringing coffee to the people yes they're bringing like a pik's peak and maybe a dark roast and that's it and I will say though that I've tasted I've been to Starbucks where they're blow you know where they're they've got access to awesome coffees and they do have that that they do do that it's not in every store kind of right right right you know well they have the clovers now uh yeah they've got the clovers they I've never seen one in Starbucks yeah they've got them in special stores and and uh and that's another thing that they're doing they're starting to uh you may have seen it in the news they're designing different stores that do different things and and they're they're you know they're they're they're a specialty coffee company that's doing their thing you know and they do have a wide variety when you buy the bags um they've got like limited small lot stuff that they do and how should you store coffee we put it in the freezer is that bad uh it depends uh it can be bad can be bad it can be bad if if your freezer stinks and
you don't you know you don't seal the bag up well enough no we don't have stinky freezers then you're good we don't never put anything in there but coffee yeah one and the other problem is like right now we took the we took the the coffee out and it brought got them to room temperature and if you take a like if you take a coffee mug that's in the freezer out and you put on your thing it gets all wet on the outside right then you've got that problem you know uhhuh in general we don't tell PE we generally encourage people not to put it in the freezer just and just drink it fast okay so but I will say that if I was on if I was in Alaska or something you know and I could only get a shipment of coffee once every six months I would freeze it ah okay but but not ideal I don't okay yeah it's not ideal it's so you should essentially I'm sorry inter rup you but you should essentially do it almost like you buy vegetables you yeah exactly I always say like you buy bread so you should get it and between the time that it's dried and between the time that it's roasted and then you drink it how much time should take place between the time it's roasted and the time you drink it so the drying it's it's essentially it's good for how long once it's dried once it's dried in in Nicaragua or whatever then it's usually good for about a year a year okay and that's good because it's about once a year you know coffee coffee Harvest happens once in a year they dry it all they get it together they stabilize it by drying and then they ship it to roters in the US okay so assuming you're in the correct window um then once you get it to a rooster uh how long after it's roasted should you drink it and does it Ma or should you brew it and does it matter how it's stored then usually the window after roasting is about 2 weeks two weeks only yeah that's it yeah like bread wow that's crazy and and so you really should roast to order yeah and and so that's why you know a good that's interesting a good coffee roasting company we have some old coffee we should just throw it away yeah there's no point just get some new coffee but um like this one it says it says when it was roasted right there you know I see that yeah thank you so that's a that's a uh that's a good sign when a when a roast cares enough to like put
the roasting date on there this [ __ ] was roasted just a couple of days ago yeah that's how you do it huh and this is from Wrecking Ball Wrecking Ball where's this company in San Francisco San Francisco is awesome of course they would have something like this there yeah and then the uh the uh it's kind of a cool company too that the uh it's a couple owns this company she's like a kind of a legendary roaster she's been roasting coffee for a long time and uh and he is like a pretty famous barista guy and they got together and they've got kind of the the they're kind of a power couple in coffee that sounds amazing wrecking ball coffee all right I'm gonna buy some of this on you can buy it online website online and So when you buy it online do they roast it when you order it yeah ah a good coffee coffee company will do that they'll sort of collect the orders and then and then do a roasting day and send it all out um lot of times you get it the day after it was my friend has a coffee company called caveman coffee and they when you order it from caveman coffee.com or whatever the [ __ ] it is they they roast it as you order it that's Co that's the only way to do it right that's very cool and they should probably start including roasted on dates huh they don't have roasted on dates but that [ __ ] sounds like it's important sure well I mean if you're like bag or something I was making a decision uh about what coffee you know to bring you today and that made a a difference you know dude you knocked it out of the park cuz this is a unique flavor and um it's it's different it's Unique and in a weird uh unexpected way you know I really really like it I love the smell of it too man what do the bean smell like do they have a unique smell too yeah they you should get a little bit of a whiff of that of that uh whoa that's amazing lemony Jazmin kind of thing dude why don't they make incense out of this [ __ ] I know right smells so good you know I used to one time I had to I had to work with an airline to try to get their coffee tasting better how dare they and how did you do that and well I didn't it wasn't that successful in this in this particular case it wasn't that successful but what all the flight attendants were doing is they were taking the coffee bags and they were
putting in the bathroom to make it smell a little bit better in there that was the best thing that they could do with this oh so they just used it as coffee poper yeah exactly that's interesting well that's kind of a good move cuz when you smell even if it's crap coffee you know when you smell the grinds it smells good you could open up a folders and get not that folders is crap but you know you get that that smell of non-roasted coffee it's delicious it's like so people human beings like the smell of brown things you know have you noticed that not all brown things saying it but like you know toast one of the greatest smells ever steak yeah true um good point bread baking all these things chocolate we love things that are cooked a little bit right yeah this brown they call them Browning reactions in science you know and when heat turns food Brown it tastes good it certainly does it's it's it's a fascinating thing like try eating a piece of raw steak yeah it really doesn't the flavor to it but godamn when it's got that crust on the outside of it and you cut through it and you delicious yeah I I am a fan of tastes and flavors and I think it's sort of an unsung art form that people have figured out how to cultivate different tastes and flavors and all sorts of foods and um in in cooking I became a big fan of cooking I can't I don't really cook very well but I became a big fan of the art form of cooking very well when I started watching Anthony Bourdain's no reservation show and then and becoming friends with him and getting to know him and talking to him about chefs and going to a restaurant with him which is what was one of the coolest [ __ ] experiences of all time amazing that's like you know playing basketball with Michael Jordan or something you're hanging out at a restaurant with Anthony bour totally but he you I developed a respect for the art form from him from watching his show the art form of cooking and I I started considering it in a different light instead of thinking like oh it's nice when people cook good food oh that tastes good I want to eat there right instead I started thinking of it as art as artwork you know no different than a song no different than a a stand-up comedy sketch or you know or a cup of
coffee the the the art in the creative the creative literally creative because you're creating I mean you're growing and you you're you're influencing the actual finished product yeah it's it's a sort of an overlooked aspect of creativity isn't it yeah absolutely it totally is and and people I'm it's nice to hear you talking like that because guys in coffee if we start to talk about how we think of coffee as an art form a lot of times people are like ah come on you people are always looking to call [ __ ] man they people call [ __ ] too much it's true it's a good thing to call [ __ ] because there's a lot of [ __ ] out there but it's not a good thing to call [ __ ] about people's passions I think it's more interesting to observe those passions and try to find out what it is and if I looked it on a surface level and I wasn't really into flavors and I didn't you know have that sort of um transition in the way I thought about flavors because of of cooking I probably wouldn't think about it that much either but when I sit down and talk to a guy like you who obviously is dedicated incredible amount of time to this passion then that's when it becomes infectious you kind of understand it yeah it's true so um and that's the way I you know I and a lot of my colleagues think about it is is like how can we make the flavor just kind of stop people in their tracks how can we use coffee and like so like for me I kind of mentioned this before when you're when you're coffee person when you're a barista you're interacting with people at like this really delicate point in their day you know they don't know what's going on they're coming to your coffee bar they you're usually the first person they've seen other than their wife or whatever and uh and they're they're not sure what kind of day they're having and then if you give them something that sort of like tastes really good and makes them feel good it's like a great thing yeah and if you and if you do that for people a lot you know you feel like you're doing something positive for the world so I always get really focused on these things sure I mean you certainly do you know I mean I think that anytime you can Inspire someone too you know you can Inspire someone with your passion for
something I'm in I'm constantly inspired by things that I don't want to have anything to do with yeah you know like there's there's people that inspire me like I watched that movie uh jro Dreams of Sushi yeah yeah I don't want to make sushi right you know I really you want to eat a J's place I certainly do I I was thinking literally thinking about flying to Japan yeah and booking a reservation I was going to try to see if I call David ler Roth who lives in Japan and ask DAV Roth lives in Japan [ __ ] yeah he does wow David Lee Roth lives in Japan and practices sword fighting all day [ __ ] David Lee Roth is one of the greatest bad [ __ ] to ever walk the face of the planet guy walks around in overhauls gives zero [ __ ] he's in his 60s and uh is just still doing new things and and and challenging himself he lives in [ __ ] Japan in Tokyo with his dog wow he has an apartment he's [ __ ] David Le Roth man he's David Le Roth and he's got an apartment like a normal person with a dog in Tokyo he's he's incredible well if you do that if you go to Japan to there he is Dave us some he's such a a cool guy we allowed him to wear sunglasses indoors I didn't [ __ ] on him while we were taking that photo that's an old school thing that's awesome those those old school rock stars they still wear sunglasses in indoors we let him get away with it um if you do that if you go to visit Jiro let me know and I'll I'll send you some coffee places that are sort of the equivalent of that ah in Japan in Japan really so these coffee guys so in in many ways Japan there there's a concept in Japanese called kodawari and that is like practice practice practice until you're the best in the world and keep practicing and keep getting it wrong but you're going to get better all the time you know and it's it's evident in martial arts it's evident in jro dreams of sushi right so he's like focused was that what they were calling each other was that the the phrase they used this phrase Ki yeah yeah and uh and this exists for coffee too this this idea of getting it perfect there's this one coffee place I went to last time I was in Japan that would blow your mind it's this guy that's like super in he has this coffee equipment I walked in my wife uh she actually found out about
this place from a Japanese friend of hers um we go walk into this place and he's got all this crazy equipment like like you'd like it it's like it's like weird weirdly excessive coffee equipment I'm saying what is going on and also in this place this guy has stereo equipment these giant speakers playing uh playing like perfectly and this incredible turntable and all this stuff playing like perfect classical music and he's serving his goal is to serve you the per perfect coffee while you're listening to the perfect music and it's like a crazy library and this guy takes 5 minutes to make you a cup of coffee whoa um but so long it well he's just like pract he's getting it right you know he's he's nailing it he'll throw stuff away if it's not perfect and how will he know if it's perfect well it's like jro man it's like he's just trying to to get to the ultimate coffee experience there's another guy um named katsu he's got a place called be Pond espresso and he learned about coffee in New York and so he's trying to bring the New York City Coffee experience to to Central Tokyo you know and he's got this little place he he this guy he he shows up to his shop like an hour and a half before they open he spends that hour and a half making his coffee taste right and he'll taste it throw it away adjust taste it again you know and if it's not right he doesn't open there he is yeah that's that's that's KATU man God damn that place is awes awesome and that's in Tokyo he that guy is a badass he sounds like a badass he is a coffee badass and him and his wife that's all you know it's a tiny little place um you go in there he if it's not open it's cuz he's trying to get the coffee right and uh you you just wait and then you go in there and he makes you awesome coffee did you go there oh yeah did you fly there just to drink coffee no but I was there for but I definitely made make a trip every time I'm in Tokyo I go to visit katsu he's the man so he rides around a motorcycle and makes coffee I've never seen that before for that's that's his place yeah he just jumped off a motorcycle wow yeah he's a badass now are there places like that here in you find that man it's on beo there's a whole like three minute documentary about it oh yeah and say the
name of the documentary so folks could watch it if they want to uh I think it's just be Pond espresso be Pond espresso what are spots like that in um in Los Angeles are there like really exceptionally good coffee spots yeah so the place I I actually bought that for you here locally in a in a shop in Culver City called um Kosen c o g n o s c n t c cognos yeah yeah cognetti which means those in the no there you go yeah there's a queue that's uh a pool queue I play pool okay and there's a pool queue called the cogn by my friend Joe gold he made he designed this Joe gold I know that name well it's a very common name yeah he's uh he lives in Chicago okay one of the best pool Q manufacturers or artists I should say in the world cool yeah cogn yeah and he had them designed based on uh he hired these Engineers to figure out what was the exact perfect taper and the the right combinations of woods like mostly he uses ebony he used like all kinds of different woods but most of the time he uses ebony with a maple shaft and you know certain dried aged wood because the wood has to be dry there can't be any water in the wood or it'll move as it dries and changes so they have to cut the wood down it starts out in a big block and you slowly cut it down over long periods of time till it becomes a dowel that you can make a queue with because you have to allow for the wood to move as it dries out it's like a guitar maker or something very very similar and there's there's a big difference amongst pool players in woods and how they perform on a table like they have a different like a maple um forearm of the queue there's a joint in most cues and then the shaft is almost always Maple but the maple forearm will be very different than a Coco bolo Forum ah it's like a springiness thing yes yes this Maple is a little bit more gentle and forgiving and Coco bow is a little more dense then ebony is denser still wow ebony also is heavier so it has like a more forward balance to it the middle of the queue will hold a lot of weight so sometimes people who prefer a maple queue will go with a steel joint so the steel in the middle sort of acts as like a pendulum because the weight is forward on the Queue like the balance of the queue is very important but it's also an artisan thing it's like it's just like
this coffee thing in a lot of ways is the people that are really into it are really into it and they you know the guys who make p cues like there's they're artists man and they're doing a lot of especially guys like Joe gold that do it on a very high-end level they're making a functional piece of art it's very beautiful to look at as well right yeah this is Joe's work here these are like really super fancy ones where you're seeing the uh the inlays in the bottom but um you know and these I don't know whether he's going to have a wrap on these or what sometimes they makes them with a no wrap meaning no no leather around the handle and some people prefer leather around the handle there's a whole art to that too yeah I'm unbelievably fascinated by that as well but like I said I'm I'm into anything like guitar makers I don't play guitar but I watch a documentary on how a guy makes a guitar I think it's I watched a whole documentary on a Mongolian bow maker last night I was making traditional Mongolian bows like Recurve Bows you guys doing it out of all these different woods and using animal horns and senu and glue that they make from from fish I'd so much rather pay my money for something that is like handmade and like put their soul into it yeah it does it means something it turns an normal artifact into something really special yeah it it's functional and you also get a feeling from using that thing you know whether it is like a handmade knife that you're chopping up food with in your kitchen you know that Somewhere in Brooklyn a guy you know Works in a a shop and cuts that metal and polishes it down and sharpens it up and then sends it to you and you're you're receiving a labor of love you know true yeah you're receiving the fruits of someone's creativity there's something about yeah handmade stuff like that well something about us human beings that we really appreciate other people's effort and work it's why you want to have someone's artwork on your wall you know what's why you you want to like a piece of furniture that someone made is like there's something uniquely satisfying instead of like something at Ikea that's just like some form block thing that's made in a factory and totally true spit out but if you could buy a couch that
some guy actually carved the wood and you know and and planted the uh or put the cushions in place and and you know embroidered it all and oh my God couch should be amazing get excited about it when you sit in it you're sitting in someone's work totally so anyway Yi's place is keni eai is he's a guy who's an architect but got turned on to coffee and this is in cver city city so cognos coffee okay there you go and then another great place in in La that I like a lot um is it's called GM B coffee these guys uh uh Charles babinsky and Kyle Glenville got together then they're the g&b and uh and they put together a coffee program Amazing downtown LA their shop is and uh um Charles is the current reigning uh okay do you know we have Champions like Barista Champions we've got a contest have Champions yeah what do they do like CrossFit no we it's like a coffee cont has anybody ever bed it till they died that has anybody ever bed it until they John Henry just like dropped from yeah well like you know they have contests like to see if people can do things for 24 hours a day oh yeah yeah like an endurance thing yeah if they ever have a barista till you drop not that I know no they shouldn't do that no cuz people will wind up dying they would people are crazy we need to limit the amount of competition that people are actually allowed to involve in that's true so this is the coffee the coffee competitions that we do and there are it's a there's a barista thing where they're making espresso there's a Brewers thing where they're brewing coffee there's a tasters thing where they they're they're competing on how well they can taste coffee and discern the differences between coffee and stuff like that so there is a coffee version of the somal yeah absolutely so if you drank this you would know this is from Ethiopia if if you didn't if you didn't drink this if you drank this and you called yourself a coffee Pro and you weren't able to identify it as as yoga Chef You' that would be a major um you'd be Baker well kind of yeah I mean that this is one of the classic origins of coffee that you need to be able to identify what could you get confused by like if you were really worried like if you had to bet your mortgage on whether
or not you could nail one which would be a what would be a tricky one the differences between what coffe well in Central America they get really new because I mean think about that Central American ithos there you know El Salvador Guatemala Costa Rica Nicaragua they're all right next to each other and as you said it's almost like the same country very similar Gene right so those coffees taste very similar but like a coffee from another great coffee growing area is right in the middle of uh Kenya and Kenya is right just south of Ethiopia but the coffee tastes completely different huh um and uh so there's a a city called the okay just as yurf is special in in uh in Ethiopia a place called nieri n ye r i in Kenya is really special and uh it it the coffee there tastes like uh blackberries you know like this is like lemons there it tastes like blackberries or black currants really beautiful and savory like meat now what would happen if you took that stuff though like you took some plants from that area and then moved them to Hawaii that's a great question you you should get into the coffee business you're asking the the right questions in general we don't have very many examples of that um because only recently have people started to move move coffee around but but I tasted once a coffee from a farm in El Salvador that had the Kenyan coffees from this uh this place in Neri planted on it m and I at the time I didn't know anything but I was tasting this coffee and I accused the guy that was working in my lab with me of making a mistake it tasted like Kenyan coffee huh so uh it's the varieties that have grown to these places that are in many ways determine these flavors there's also a a farm in in uh in Panama that was kind of accidentally planted with some coffees from Ethiopia and the coffee tastes like Ethiopian coffee really so is there a similarity in the climate yeah if the climate's the same and the coffee variety is the same because remember all these thousands of varieties that exist in the world you know if in in in yurf they grow three different varieties there if you go to y chef and ask a farmer what varieties of coffee he's growing he's got a choice of three um and they're different from
anywhere else in the world those they look different you can see that they're different right like those little tiny ones that we yeah exactly the uh is it called pey is that what it's called Uh M mocha yeah mocha is the variety so kka this came from Yemen somehow and made it to Hawaii and they planted in Hawaiian and that's Rusty Hawaiian by the way and it's really delicious and really tiny they're like little they're like yeah seeds almost yeah like BB's it yeah yeah yeah that's a good way to describe it on BB's yeah um so how often do you travel around the world helping people Define the flavors of their coffees well now I have a kid so I don't do it as much anymore but there was a there was a decade there where I would travel uh one year 200 days in a year I was I was uh I was just buzz out of your mind doing coffee yeah yeah tasting it more than a lot of times by the way when we're tasting coffee we'll spit it out so you don't get yeah too [ __ ] up yeah just taste it and spit it that's interesting do you feel bad about spitting it out sometimes sometimes you don't if you don't if too delicious and you don't want to you just drink drink it yeah wow but um but yeah but there's a lot of I mean it's not just me there's lots of there's lots of people out there right now in fact I was chatting with a guy in in uh Kenya this morning now what can be done about the soil itself is there composting that improves the the health of the plant great question that the yeah that one of the issues with coffee is you take all this coffee out from a farm in wherever Kenya you bring the coffee here but you got to you got to be bringing stuff back to the soil all the time and otherwise the soil will be depleted so getting nutrients back in the soil is really important composting is a big deal it's good to have um uh access to manure if you can from cattle or chickens or whatever that they put it it's a lot it's a lot of work preferred type of manure that you use it depends on the soil cuz I know people are really into chicken [ __ ] yeah chicken shit's great cuz we have chickens and uh people asking us for our [ __ ] and we're like what it's like it's like dynamite that stuff it's weird people asking you for [ __ ] um so what about like rotten vegetables and things on they most any good coffee Farm will have a gigantic
compost heap okay that they that they have the coffee pulp and stuff like that from when they process the coffee plus manure chicken manure all sorts of stuff and and this is all sort of Leed and like piled up and and then it's evenly distributed over the farm exactly and then they have to carry it so farmers will put it in a bag on their back and walk up these mountains whoa and like put you know two or three kilograms of manure on each coffee plant now one coffee plant will produce about a pound of coffee in a year so this gives you an idea how much work it is that's insane it's crazy one coffee plant produces a full bag of coffee in one year in a year yeah so why isn't coffee a million dollars that's a great question what would happen if coffee could be grown in the United States probably would cost a million dollars and that's why you know that's why you know straight this was probably pretty expensive this straight Hawaiian coffee is probably oh yeah it was not cheap at all yeah it's very expensive I think it's like well I forget I shouldn't say yeah but anyway it's a lot of money and that's why it's because it's because it's incredibly labor intensive yeah that's amazing now um the issue that they're having with uh a lot of farms is the depletion of the soil correct like minerally deficient soils have been that's been an issue with Farmers since the 1920s right absolutely when they first started realizing it yeah and and then so um and this is a big challenge for all agriculture but but coffee is no different how to maintain fertility in your soil without because it takes a lot of work like a lot of Labor to get stuff back and then um so chemical fertilizer is another option for for Farmers that they use but that's a problem too because it takes energy to make you know you they burn gas basically to make NPK fertilizer which is chemical fertilizer right so Organic Farms don't use um that kind of fertilizer they make their own with compost but it's so much effort it's just a hugely expensive undertaking to do so it's a challenge it's one of the things that we face and we talk about a lot in coffee is there a very ation and the flavor of a plant that's been fertilized with a chemical fertilizer or a synthetic or whatever you call it as a
ver as Pros to compost no as long as the as long as the the plant is healthy it's possible to make it healthy in both those ways so if the plant's healthy it's going to make good coffee but it seems like a huge difference in the chemical process itself right I mean you obviously have to burn things in order to make yeah it's like a it's yeah and and and and then there there's a lot of Middle Ground round two I mean I would say most most good Farmers or many good farmers use a little bit of of synthetic fertilizer and a little bit of compost as well and they kind of try to find like multivitamins with a good diet that's exactly what it's like using chemical fertilizer is the same as using vitamin supplements it have you ever heard of a guy named Dr Joel Wallock no he's a doctor who wrote a book called Dead Doctors Don't Lie and it's all about minerally sufficient in insufficient soils and about uh a real epidemic we with minerally deficient diets I don't know how much of what he said is [ __ ] I need to really probably talk to someone I'll talk to Dr Rhonda Patrick about it she's one of the guests that we have on the podcast it's a an actual scientist yeah she really understands what she's talking about but um this guy was talking about areas in the world where people Liv to be much longer or live to be much older and were healthier and had darker hair longer and that it was because they were getting something called glacial milk which is uh the runoff like water from glaciers that actually had like a a Milky quality to it because it was so minerally rich right now is there areas like that where they grow coffee which minerally Rich coffee a lot of people like the legend there's a lot of Legends and coffee Legends well yeah I mean about special areas that make special coffee you know and you you mentioned earlier volcanic soils places that have volcanic soils that the farmers if their coffee is great they will attribute it to all of these things but um so far far there's not a lot of like actual evidence to support any of that um uh all it is is we know and and we're discovering these things all the time you know it's like what is the magic um sort of mixture of the right variety the right climate the right kind of soil composition the right kind of
husbandry it's this it's so many factors together it's I don't think it makes sense to isolate one thing you know another thing that people always ask me is like if they're growing pine trees on the farm where they're GR coffee can you taste the pine trees in the in the uh in the coffee itself and I'm pretty sure that there's no there's no way that that I mean I've never experienced that you know but people there's these Legends kind of come up and around coffee and you do you do taste um amazing things in coffee that are inexplicable like I mean that coffee that we just drank that definitely smells like lemons right yeah well it smells like a tea yeah like lemon tea right and it tastes good even when it cools off oh tastes better I noticed that too it it's just it's I don't know why CU that's not the case with a lot of coffee no no no that's right why is that what's well coffee is will continue to extract over time so while it's been sitting in this in this thing it's continuing to extract it's going from maybe it was maybe 18% when I plunged it in terms of percentage of extraction and it keeps on going up as it sits and so it'll evolve in terms of flavor the other thing that changes is you so uh so there's this thing called habituation in tasting things and uh I wasn't completely hip to this until a a a taste scientist um he he did this demonstration for me and he did it with wine he said he he gave me a glass of this this uh white wine from uh New Zealand and he had me taste it and he said you you taste that green bell pepper note in this you know and that's a thing that they say about wines from this area and I said yeah I can taste it and he says okay and then he gave me a little bit of actual green bell pepper and he said eat that and I did and then he said okay now taste the wine again and I tasted the wine again and it tasted like a completely different wine and I said what happened he said okay so that that wine had this chemical in it and he named the chemical I don't remember what it was but it was the green bell pepper chemical and then he and then when he gave me the green bell pepper it overwhelmed my senses with that same smell and so you know how if you're if if you use Windex in your house you smell it for a while and
you're overwhelmed by it and then in a few minutes you can't smell it anymore yeah it's not that it's gone away it's just that your brain has sort of screened it out well all Factory senses depend on change in smell exactly and so once you get used to something you can't smell it anymore yes and so the same thing happens with coffee if you're drinking coffee and there's an overwhelming element then your your old factory will screen it out and then you start tasting different things oh so things change over time so smell certainly does enhance taste or change taste yeah in coffee especially it's it's at least half of the thing it doesn't wine as well like I find that like you know a good wine like I like red wine when I smell a good red wine like the smell of it actually makes it seem somewhat more delicious yeah well flavor the definition of flavor is the is the combination of aromatic and taste together so if you eliminate if you have a cold or something and you eliminate your aromatics suddenly food doesn't taste right nothing is right because you're only tasting sweet sour salty bitter and savory which is what you can experience on your tongue but your nose is able to get thousands of things so there's this there's this phenomenon that happens when you're tasting things um and uh it's it it's called retronasal so when you swallow this is weird but you swallow something and then it coats your throat and the the aromatics kind of go backwards up through your nose from your throat whoa and um and it's that's called retronasal from the back of your nose and so you're actually smelling things at the same time that you're swallowing them that is fascinating is there any restaurant in the Los Angeles area that gets the whole thing right like great food great wine and great coffee that's a great question why doesn't someone nail that somebody should somebody should have like coffee like this yeah like the perfect cup of coffee roasted March 4th you know so it's roasted a week ago what's today's date what's the official date right now it's the 17th what is it 10th the 10th so 6 6 17th I don't know what day it is how about that [ __ ] seven days off yeah I knew it was one of those Mondays um so 6 days ago it's really recently roasted
would be an amazing thing for someone to pull off in a restaurant have like really delicious wines to go with really delicious food and have the same effort put into the coffees yeah a few restaurants are starting to really work on it and try to get it right yeah and what do they do none that I know of in LA but none how dare you la yeah I'm sure there might be I just haven't been there yet San Francisco must uh San Francisco has a couple there was one that in Baltimore of all places really that did an amazing job is it still open Woodberry Kitchen yeah it's still great coffee service amazing coffee service amazing coffeee service and amazing food as well amazing I mean the guy this guy named Spike does this I mean he is amazing this dude well I'm going to get that number from you because I'm going there in a couple of weeks in Baltimore oh you have to eat at Woodberry Kitchen it's great all right I'm going yeah done how about that yeah yeah wow um awesome um what what else could we talk about when it comes to coffee is there anything that we missed no I mean uh uh no I don't know I mean the the uh the some of the things that that uh people always want to know is about decaf people want yes that was another thing I wanted I'm glad you brought that up I forgot well I mean it's the thing you see when you work in coffee you go to cocktail parties or something people always ask you these questions they ask you what's your favorite coffee and why because they want to know they also want to know what the deal with decaf is is what is the deal well I mean so coffee has this alkaloid uh caffeine and um and then you have to get it out so the first way that they got it out is they use a solvent like uh like paint th yeah kind of more like dry cleaning solvent this is God this is a uh 100 years ago and they noticed that it was able to take the caffeine out and that was the original but no who wants to use that in there so over the years they've developed better ways of doing it using carbon dioxide or charcoal filters to get the to get the caffeine out and how much do you actually get out because I had heard that Starbucks uh has a particularly high caffeine content of their regular coffee and that there might be a little bit left to that when you have decaf is that Cas that doesn't
sound right to me no that the uh I I don't see any reason why Starbucks would have a higher caffeine content of their coffee so it's just an urban legend sounds like an urban legend to me yeah um what about the decaf does it have any caffeine in it at all or is it amounts Trace trace and and uh uh so you know people people that are like allergic sensitive to it shouldn't drink decaffinated coffee but but people that are uh uh but you know most and each of these methods is slightly different but Trace Amounts of of caffeine and and decaffeinated coffee that's interesting The Good the good methods the Swiss water process for example you may have heard of um is uh is one there's a number of these methods that are really good at getting getting the caffeine out and not destroying the flavor of the coffee so what is a the it says Starbucks tall decaf a tall which is a small has 9.5 milligrams of caffeine in it okay what does a normal cup of coffee have in it like like uh 150 200 something so that's the tray so it's got a little bit little bit but it's not caffeine free it's just low caffeine yeah but that's pretty low I mean you know sure but unless you're super sensitive to it but if you have a 20 o decaf you're getting what about 18 maybe is it a double what is that a 16 oz 16 is double right because that's an eight is it tall an 8 oz I don't know this is the the Starbucks bar language that I don't well they get all Goofy with Grande call it I know venty is 20 ounces I know that yeah that's silly call it medium stupid don't call it tall either [ __ ] ain't tall in what world goer travels in what world is that tall that's ridiculous yeah um so if someone is uh really sensitive to caffeine though they can also still probably uh get a little bit of a caffeine kick yeah that's true if if they're super sensitive to it that's so it's not caffeine free it's not yeah I guess it's called decaf but it's not decaffeinated it's only mostly it's mostly decaff decaffinated um but the flavor right well so now the flavors okay great I've I've done this I've tasted a great decaffeinate a great coffee that becomes decaffeinated and it's certainly the flavor is impacted by caffeine by the removal of caffeine by the process it
goes through but it's still delicious coffee okay like give us an example of a delicious decaffeinated coffee that we should look for that you can go out well any of these any Co any coffee company that's like putting extraordinary care into their regular coffee it's very likely that they will be putting extraordinary care into their decaf too and it just but you should ask them about it right you know I mean uh uh you know if you engage with them and they're proud of their decaf then it chances are that they are putting a lot of care into it and I know that okay I used to run a coffee company coffee program for a coffee company back East called counterculture coffee and I put extra effort into my decaffeinated coffee because I knew that the people that were drinking that were drinking it only for the flavor they weren't drinking it for the drug effect right they just they cared enough about coffee that they wanted to drink it just because of the way that it tasted and I felt like that was a responsibility you know that's a very interesting point cuz you're not dealing with any people just looking for a drug right right and and so and so uh but the I mean the problem the problem with decaf um I think is that consumers who drink decaffeinated coffee they don't necessarily expect to pay more they feel like it should be the same price you know and I get that but it does cost money to put it through the process of decaffeinating well don't they feel like that most coffe is overpriced in the first place I don't think people really truly realize the amount of effort when you broke it down by one pound is one tree for a [ __ ] year it's totally true like what is that is that an 8 oz bag of coffee what is that how many what what that bring that Hawaiian roaster what does that say this is probably 16 o [ __ ] year 14 o That's essentially a year of one plant that's unbelievable man yeah no it's crazy and and you can you can get that for like 20 bucks or whatever the hell it is so we have this ideal of the you know that in the depression a nickel cup of coffee yeah and and uh you know that's when my grandparents had access to a nickel cup of coffee Starbucks you're paying $4 for a cup of coffee they think it's stupid meanwhile grow your own coffee dummy good luck but I
mean that was intentional I mean restaurants at that time that was they were losing money on their 5cent cups of coffees even in the 20s really because but they did that it was sort of a loss leader they were trying to get people into the restaurants you know uhhuh so um but it kind of stuck in people's mind that coffee should be cheap and and and it shouldn't be it's it's it in my view coffee should be the best you can possibly make it taste and then and if that costs money whatever just drink less so let me ask you this say if you're traveling across America and you stop at a diner because you're hungry and do do you even [ __ ] around do you even order a cup of coffee sometimes I do sometimes I don't you get sad when they bring you out that little stupid white cup it is taste it I mean I love diners you know I love to eat at diners I freaking love but you don't drink coffee there and I love pancakes and hash browns and all that stuff and uh I wish that the C in a few times I've gone to places where the coffee was outrageously good and did they tell you it was really good coffee sometimes sometimes they're they're proud of their their deal and and they all make it good so it's someone who takes as much effort into their omelets right as they do into their coffee possible right well it should be it should be expected totally if it's financially feas if right and that's and that's what comes down to people got to be willing to pay for good stuff like what is a bag like this delicious bag of Ethiopian yur usually that'll be I don't know maybe 12 or $13 dude I'm G to sleep with this [ __ ] next to my pillow it's good I just want the well I hope you drink it that you know one thing I'm going to drink the [ __ ] out of this don't worry about it sometimes and this always happened to me when I you know I'd get a special coffee I give it to my parents and they'd throw it in the freezer and they'd save it for a special occasion because they're like well no no this special coffee you know no no no we're drinking this all day this week I'm going to uh put that out in the kitchen too I'm not going to put in the freezer I don't have to right just to drink drink it quickly all right so we're going to leave this out and uh we're
going to report on this and thank you for coming by thank you to Wrecking Ball coffee for making this awesome Ethiopian your yeah it was a it was an pleasure talking to you um is there anything else we can cover anything that people uh don't know about coffee that should know is there anything else while we were gearing up somebody I was looking at the Twitter feed and somebody mentioned something oh okay I've got a few things that you're that people might be interested you ready okay catchit coffee oh I've had that copy luak copy luak yeah yeah but that's made by a civet they eat the be yeah I've had it I've ordered it it's interesting for folks who don't know really is [ __ ] out by this cat thing right it's like it's in the cat family right well yeah I think it's more like a r yeah and it eats the beans and then shits them out and they take it out of its poop and when it goes through its digestive tract it imparts a very mellow taste to the coffee right and so it got in this movie you know the bucket list everybody what movie is that the buck there's a movie called The Bucket List okay Jack Nicholson and is you don't remember this movie no I never heard of it it was about some old guys and they had a bucket list of things to do before they died and one of the things was they drink the catchet coffee C and so that of course it started a rash of people asking people like me about this this this there's the animal look at that cute little thing oh that's fake man he's not really talking oh that's the beans that he pooped out I first tried that with my friend Tate who's uh one of the owners of caveman coffee Tate's always been a uh a Crazy Coffee connoisseur but we were in Miami and we saw this thing where's caveman coffee by the way uh he's out of New Mexico okay cool um and this place in Miami was like some sort of a specialty Coffee Joint it was a restaurant that had these really expensive coffees and forget how it was like 30 bucks a GL a cup or something like that something really nutty because it came out of this cat's butt yeah and the problem is that so the the it's really rare and that's why it's expensive and everything it's good though I've had it it's delicious I'm glad yeah I'm glad you okay there can be uh there can be some pretty rotten of
this stuff wait a minute it comes out of cat's ass it's rotten how weird yeah the thing is there are these places where they have the cats and cages in it's really sad [ __ ] I didn't even think of that you got me now God damn it I'm black TR you black fished my copi leok it was Blackfish Blackfish is that newe documentary that's killing SeaWorld because people got a chance to see what it's really like that's right that's right [ __ ] SeaWorld is terrible it's terrible there there's slave colonies yeah they're enslaving intelligent beings that we can't understand it's true it is it is 100% true and and uh yeah so I I I got a touch of that same sadness when I saw that when I saw the the and I've been to the places where they do imagine it just stands to reason if you have a product like this that's very expensive then you're going to have these [ __ ] animals you're going afford there's also a lot of fraud because it's so expensive you know I would imagine so and and but you know I mean the amount of pleasure that you can get from a coffee like the one I brought you or some of these other ones that you've mentioned um you know it's not totally necessary to go to that um extent the other thing I noticed on the Twitter feed somebody mentioned coffee going there was a news uh about a year ago there was a news thing that was talking about coffee going extinct um and and uh and it's because so that this is tied into this uh this Ethiopia thing um the fact that you know 98 99% of the total genetic diversity of coffee is in Ethiopia and not only in in the country but in one um there you go you're you're fast on the um um it's it's not even Ethiopia at all it's the Southwest part of Ethiopia where coffee is indigenous too pull an image of the beans itself like that like that get get a a blow up on one of those cuz most people don't even know what coffee beans look like yeah so those are we call them coffee cherries for obvious reasons yeah I mean they look like a fruit it's so interesting because we think of coffee as you know if you if you're crazy you grind your own stuff that's how most people think but it's already cooked and and roasted and yeah we think of it as food yeah in coffee you know and you know uh one of the biggest
things that we can do for people pretty that is yeah it's beautiful looks like grapes get people to understand that coffee is the seed of a fruit I need to get some of that coffee fruit I want to eat some I'm going to send you fruit but you'd have to send me the dry stuff where could I where could I go and actually buy the fruit and eat it is there a place you in Santa Santa Barbara California oh so that's right that's right that's right 45 minutes away from here or something yeah I [ __ ] love Santa Barbara actually thought about moving there oh I'm there soon when am I there I think I'm there in um April or something you should go visit Jay he's a great guy you go the fruit is delicious you eat fruit right I love fruit yeah then this is the this is the guy I'm there in Santa Barbara May 2nd Friday May 2nd I'm at the lero theater with uh Joey Diaz yeah go check it out so I will do I will definitely go and check that out because uh I I I want to go just to support that guy I love when someone does something that cool yeah you know it takes a crazy uh project like that and spent seven years he's a cool guy for sure well listen man this is really fascinating stuff um really interested uh I really appreciate you coming on here and educating us and uh giving us all the uh the load down on coffee I've been um been on a journey to kind of understand and learn the process of this over the last few months just really kind of digging deep into the the coffee flavor uh Barrel it's it's really been fascinating stuff and very intriguing and uh stimulating in in a lot of ways just the ideas behind it like it's cool to uncover this whole sort of community of people trying to you know enhance flavors and and ta taste them and change I mean I had no idea there was a specialty coffee Association of America until just a few days ago yeah well here I me serious business ca.org you want to hear a crazy thing you're talking about like intellectual connection and stuff like that um so coffee was invented in Ethiopia as we said and in Ethiopia they they do it like a coffee ceremony like a you know it's a very ceremonial way to prepare it and drink it MH and when they do the this coffee ceremony they it's like they gather people together from the village they and they talk about
things they talk about the news of the village they talk about um things that are going on in the in the world when coffee moved from Ethiopia to Yemen totally different deal like in Ethiopia it's always a woman that makes coffee whereas in Yemen it wasn't like that but they still would talk about news and intellectual and stuff like that then coffee moved from Yemen to Europe um you know Italy and England and places like that and the coffee house still remained a place for intellectual exchange and discourse and stuff like that they planned the American Revolution in coffee houses you know in because they were wired right they were like [ __ ] these something about there's something about coffee that like that like gets your mind going as well as stimulates you and like wakes you up but you think that the Tea Party Movement like that that had an effect on the the way the United States took off just by simply the fact that they went from tea to Coffee that's what they there is there are people that speculate that that totally is valid I think yeah that that that coffee consumption is a part of the American uh drive to Ingenuity and Imagination we're on [ __ ] speed we're country on speed I wonder if they could show post domestic product post Starbucks you know like whe whether or not Starbucks impacted people's productivity but still right if you go to meet somebody at a coffee shop right you're going to talk about something that's it's different than going to drink with somebody at a bar or have dinner with somebody or something like that it's different it's somehow more about exchanging information more imagination it's stimulating it's the stimulant of caffeine in coffee is stimulating and then the flavor is enriching you enjoy the flavor and then you get [ __ ] happy and it's been that way since the origin of coffee coffee yeah coffee houses were always thought of as places where people read poetry and you know yeah andp politics Etc and as you said plan revolutions that's interesting to me yeah it is interesting and and that's one of the reasons that I think that I like to work in coffee because I'm into that sort of thing anyway intellectual engagement creativity you know music poetry politics these this this is always been
like that it's like this in in Asia in Arabia everywhere the coffee goes it's like that do you feel like coffee doesn't get uh enough credit for the impact that it has had culturally yeah I think I I do think I sometimes it bums me out this idea of like cheap people want cheap abundant coffee it's just its only function is as a drug to get them to work in the morning you know and it's been cheapened by our culture um but but it's it's special and and it could go away you know really well yeah so that this whole Extinction thing is about about how where 98% of this this the origin of coffee is because of climate change this scientist who does this work has done the projections and if and if the weather there as predicted increases by a few degrees then the coffee won't be able to survive and it could be 80% wiped out in these natural coffee forests in 50 years wa and then then we'll be up a creek because the motherload of genetic origin of coffee will be gone essentially that's intense and then can there be steps done to safeguard that well we're trying to do that in the industry so we had actually had a conference about a year ago on this very question where we talked about preservation of the genetic diversity of coffee which means taking coffee out of Ethiopia planting it elsewhere to make sure that we've got other examples of the same of the genetic divers diversity in other parts of the world um you know preserving it there's other ways to preserve uh coffee you know by freezing the seeds you know and putting them in storage so if we need them we can go back to them this has been an eye openening podcast man I learned more about coffee today than I had in 46 years of life on this planet thank you Peter I really really appreciate you taking your time and and educating us and I really appreciate your passion and the website is sca.org that is a specialty coffee Association of America and follow Peter on Twitter it's Peter Giuliano G IU l a n o l i a n o i l i a n Okay g i u l i a n o Juliano Peter Peter Juliano GI I Peter first p e t e r g i u g i u l i a n o that's a lot of work bro thank you Jo it's so easy Joe Rogan so easy Juliano but it has a lot more flow to it and again sca.org thank you very much
man really really appreciate it and thanks also to our sponsors thanks to um T to Nature boox NatureBox go to naturebox.com and uh use the wait hold on a second I lost my place Nature Box [ __ ] your awesome delicious [ __ ] you confuse the [ __ ] out of me it's code name Rogan I believe well we don't need to believe we need to know so give me a second here uh Nature Box yeah here we go yes it is naturebox.com Rogan it's not a code word so naturebox.com Rogan that's why we look it up otherwise we confuse the [ __ ] out of people so go to naturebox.com Rogan try NatureBox and get 50 50% off your first box that's naturebox.com Rogan very delicious stuff and as I said before a lot of variables and as far as like what you can order you can go super healthy you can go medium healthy you can go pretzels but uh really good yummy delicious sit [ __ ] with uh a lot of positives on it um no artificial sweeteners no artificial flavors no artificial colors no partially hydrogenated oils and like I said the blueberry almonds or the balm Diggity son go get yourself some of that and uh we're also brought to you by legal zoom.com legal zoom.com is uh an excellent sponsor as well and one that we really enjoy here on the podcast because we get a lot of positive feedback in fact nine out of 10 people who've used Legal Zoom said they would use it again uh go to legalzoom.com and use the code word Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more savings thanks also to on it.com go to o nni t use the the code name Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements now [ __ ] you know as much about coffee as you ever need to unless you become a freak like Peter Giuliano all right we will see you guys tomorrow with a a tricast Dr Christopher Ryan and Duncan Trussell return and we're doing our threesome thing that we always do once a month so much love see you guys soon and tomorrow night Ice House almost sold out get on it see you [ __ ]