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hey you freaks what's going on Party People we're back uh I've been uh I've been busy squatching so I haven't had time to be podcasting I'm out there searching for Bigfoot what are you doing Brian you're not you're not answering the Bigfoot question just sitting here doing podcasts I've already made up my mind come out there for the people son I'm out there steady squatching this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is brought to by Squarespace Squarespace is one of our uh newest and favorite sponsors I don't really have any favorites but I really enjoy this one I really like it I like everything about it what it is is a website that allows you to very easily create your own website there's templates that you can use there's various images that you can upload and you can make a really cool looking website including setting up a store you can set up an online store super easy it's it's ridiculous how easy it is and it's cool and it's fun you can also try it out you can go there and set up a a website and not even have to uh use your credit card you just uh Try It Out Hold on let me just pull this up I gotta yeah it's cool because you just have all these design like you could put together a website in almost like within five minutes well you have you know I couldn't it would take me a lot longer than it would take you but but uh Brian can whip through one of those [ __ ] things and it's um it's I love the fact that there someone figured that out because it used to be like so daunting the idea of creating a website was terrifying like what am I going to do this this is this makes it super easy it makes it's really intuitive and it works on everything it works on a cell phone it works on your iPad it works on an Android tablet it works on every phone it works on every browser it's just they they've got it down and it didn't used to be down it used to be really difficult to get a website but now almost anybody can do their own and uh if you go to squarespace.com Joo you can try it out no credit card necessary but if you decide to purchase it use the offer code excuse me use the offer code joe5 just Joe and the number five all one word and uh then you will save 10% off a first purchase uh new accounts
including monthly and annual plans so that's squarespace.com Joo and the offer code is Joe and the number three excuse me five Joe and the number five don't use Joe and the number three you'll confuse the [ __ ] out of people they'll think man someone's just really stuck on those old March podcasts we're also brought to you by Ting um if you uh have heard of Ting before if you've heard of us uh talk about it on the podcast one of the things that makes me so happy is when I run into people and they tell me that something that we're advertising on the podcast is exactly as promised and uh that's one thing that I keep hearing about Ting it's it's a it's a really good cell phone service it uses a Sprint backbone but it's set up to be a lot cheaper than most cell phone plans and it's set up in a really cool ethical way including if you if you don't use the minutes that you signed up for they knock you down to the next level and credit you at your next bill they they literally give you credit for unused service I mean nobody does that they they if you don't use usually if you don't use your service they're like tough [ __ ] that's what you you offered or that's what you bought that was your contract your contract was 100 minutes a month or whatever the hell it is dude I love [ __ ] team they're great it's great and and when we were in Vancouver for 24 hours I used both of my uh cell phones one from AT&T and one from uh tting and I just got the bill to find out how much my overages were for you know using international air uh AT&T because I was on a shitty Daya plan and I I was just being stupid uh it was $2 like $70 or something like that that's crazy yeah for one hour for one day so ridiculous my Ting which I used a lot actually because uh it had better service there um $17 wow that's insane that's insane first of all the T can make it that cheap but it's also insane that 18t could send you a bill that high that's just so it's so weird that you go over to Canada and all a sudden the the same rules don't apply it's only 3 hours away right takes us three it takes us five to get to New York it's like it doesn't make any sense it's so stupid I'm so tired of countries and it's really [ __ ] stupid of just AT&T even doing
that because they know there's people like me that wouldn't because they watch you what they want you to do is they want you to call them get on an international calling plan or data plan choose which one you want and then it would probably be cheaper uh but what they're doing is like hey you didn't call us so we're just going to [ __ ] you you know I mean where like 's just like hey man strong words whatever strong words and you know they don't just misunderstood they also don't charge you for tethering either which is another thing called tethering tether tether that's one of those that you don't really say that much but you see written down a lot yeah it's like something else like roll like some people say Rolfing when it's like no a roling the the massage thing no no no when you're like rolling on the floor laughing your oh R yeah roll on the floor laughing my ass off yeah some people say that like what I've never heard that but people just spell it out yeah those people need but yeah like like they don't you for uh tethering so like that which is you shouldn't have to pay for anyways what you have to have a a button that a software button that you turns on and off that that's why you have to pay for it yeah you're still using the same amount of data like what do you care if I use it off my phone or my laptop right I'm I I have the phone I B this is my phone so it's not wearing out the phone you know it's not doing there's no reason but you know with tang they give it to you for free which is how it should be you to get free voicemail and stuff you know it comes with free stuff it's an ethical company and it's it's a it's a fair company and they have great phones they have the the coolest Android phones including the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 which is that big giant thing that's the one that I mean you really read websites on it take pictures with it you can watch movies on it and what looking at your photos on it is a completely different experience than a smaller phone you know the people that try it it's it's a pain in the ass for people to get used to but once they try it and they get used to that giant screen you don't ever want to go back to a little tiny baby screen this is what I want right here oh they have the Galaxy S4 now I want it yeah it's amazing the uh
the technology that's available today but uh you don't the point is you don't have to lose technology to use the Ting service it's uh it's cheap it's awesome and uh if you go to rogan.com you will save 25 bucks off of uh either one of your uh new cell phones or or the service so go and check it out you freaks uh we're also brought to you by onet.com um if you uh have never been to on it.com it's uh the best way to describe it is it's a human performance website and damn am I tired of doing commercials about this it's impossible to think of new things to say about on it if you've never heard of it before though uh it's a company that we we sell like kettle bells and battle ropes and vitamins and it's all like stuff that is uh designed to help Human Performance whether it's your endurance with shroom Tech sport or whether it's you know physical strength with things like battle ropes or maces and I know maces and clubs they look like weapons but they're not weapons okay they're not they're just exercise equipment and it's exercise equipment that mimics the use of weapons because believe it or not like those dudes who have to like swing swords like you have to live in Game of Thrones time you have to be strong as [ __ ] man to be able to swing a big giant piece of metal and when you not advocating any sword use but I'm saying when you use something like like that like a steel mace or a steel Club using these uh weapon like uh pieces of exercise equipment it actually makes you use your body as one whole unit and it improves your athletic performance in in other areas like if you if you have a sport that you do or if it's a martial arts thing the uh the strength and fitness that you can get from a good kettle bell workout or a ma workout it really does uh do uh you uh some great benefits so go and check it out use the code named Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements that's o n niit t Alex Gray is here you dirty freaks so strap in open up your third eye get your [ __ ] together and away we go The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day Che it out Jesus louus what are we doing here we sending emails the person on I I'll explain who
the person on the podcast is today one of my favorite artists in the history of the universe how about that how about uh there's a small handful of people that I would have liked to have meet more than you and so uh having you on the podcast the first time was a true honor and a treat and uh it's uh it's just cool to be in contact with you I think you are uh you you repres represent a very positive and a very unusual force in in the world of Art and in the world of Consciousness as well you know your your artwork is so uh moving and so representative of the Psychedelic state that it it actually has like an effect on people you know I think your artwork is uh probably like some of the the most accurate psychedelic artwork I've ever seen and I I can't tell you how many people I've been with that have seen your artwork or seen one of your pieces for the first time and just went [ __ ] you know like that's that's like the the the usual re action when they see one of your crazier pieces like uh the one that's like the one that I always think of when I think of you is these three faces they look like Egyptian sort of pharaoh type faces and they're all three one is facing forward and two on the sides and it just seems like a DMT trip it seems like you're tripping when you're watching it right yeah it's an attempt to point to the the embeddedness that we are in time the flow of time and yet that there is is always a Timeless being that uh we also are the witness of that um being in time why is that so terrifying because we are in time and there's a countdown you know there's you know where none of us Get Out Alive etc etc yeah hey Ray hey we love you yeah yeah he just passed um it's um it really is a weird thing though to see it so clearly captured in artwork and it's one of the weirdest things that people point to when they point to uh either ancient religious art or you know just various uh things where it's hard to find you uh evidence of psychedelic use in their art like they didn't it's it's hard to find moments where they C like this is one it's hard there's there was none nothing like this MH that came out of the old world and it's fascinating to me because if you know McKenna was right with this idea of the stoned ape Theory and you know that
mushrooms probably shaped human culture it's like clearly there were long periods of time probably where people weren't getting that yeah but there was a a continual evolution of the um uh ability to express uh the uh dimensions of the world and of the imaginal worlds and you can see it from cave art which they now believe uh that even the Neanderthal may have had a early form of cave art so it wasn't just the chromax you know and and the uh uh uh but uh we may have had uh ancestors who were also yeah it's the uh cave art is one of the weirder things about ancient man have you seen the wner Herzog documentary about uh the ancient cave art I believe it was in France is that where it was yeah what is it called Cave of Dreams yes yeah uh I actually didn't see it and I've heard all about it and I really want to you know and I haven't yeah so oh it's one of those things yeah did you love it yeah um I only got a CH I was I was running out the door when it was on so I only got a chance to see it for about an hour but it was fascinating just the idea that they were painting these incredible things just what was it 30,000 years ago 40,000 years ago something crazy like that and this is some of the oldest stuff just this the idea that you're looking at something that someone 40,000 years ago drew it seems so insane but it also seems like a blip when you really stop and think about 40,000 years to go from that to us from from drawing on rocks as being you know your your main form of expression like drawing Buffalo to 40,000 years later taking pictures of yourself and sending them to people on the other side of the planet it's not that far 30,000 years is like really quick to do that we're still making pictures yeah and making pictures is becoming an even more important uh part of communication what do you think that that is that feeling that you get when you see a piece of art when you see something beautiful when you see something even if it's the same feeling for me it's almost exactly the same thing when I see nature a beautiful scene in nature as I see a beautiful human creation so it seems to have no differentiation in in my imagination when I see like a beautiful sunset or a
beautiful Forest you know in mountains and a lake and that that perfect classic scene or if I see a beautiful painting or a beautiful piece of art it's the same thing it's gives you that wow that that's what we're looking for all the time this powerful expression We crave it I think it's actually something that um human beings you know either secretly or not so secretly uh Crave in uh looking at other people and in and in finding it uh in their lives I I kind of think that's a that's almost an aesthetic uh and spiritual quest in itself to find the beauty in the moment in every moment is actually a a quite a uh um profound uh state to be in you know yeah it's just such a strange thing to be able to do you know if you looked at it out if you were outside of human culture and you said what are they doing there they're creating beautiful things and they'll look at it and get a positive feeling from it huh how strange like they that image serves no other function other than the express themselves no they can't eat it they can't they they don't make houses out of it they're just they just make it and they look at it and stare at it and they think it's awesome well you know on the back of the dollar bill they have that somewhat Masonic looking uh pyramid with the eye in the Triangle floating above and so it's an unfinished um pyramid and I've heard it interpreted as the that the individual or the nation is in complete without guidance by higher vision and so the uh aspiration for a higher vision is what distinguishes maybe a sacred art and a a psychedelic art that aims at a universal kind of mystical Visionary experience and uh just kind of fantasy art uh because I think that uh with the widespread use of psychedelics uh so many people have seen these Realms that that's why that it causes a bit of a when people see it sometimes is because they've seen it inside themselves but maybe not outside of themselves yeah it's almost like uh like a familiar image like even though it's so bizarrely outrageous and you still like wow why have I se have I seen this goddamn thing before like what is it about especially that one with the three heads but that one really knocked my socks off yeah yeah you're you're going
to make a whole building like that man that's what the uh anthon is that's too much about I can't take that with well it's all the way around I know 20 foot heads it's going to be the coolest place on the planet earth that is that is without a doubt going to be the coolest building on the planet Earth there's nothing cooler than that you you you made an Alex Gray Building and an Allison Gray Building yeah it's uh exactly this is her sacred language that is uh the uh thing that binds the uh building that look straight out of a piece of the wreckage from Roswell that's what I expect that writing to come from that that looks awesome if human language like that's looks like some like something someone would get tattooed on them they wouldn't even know what it meant just looks so cool well you know I thought you could you know if you had like one head here and then it and then it could it could go completely around the body or something oh someone will do that now that you just suggested it someone will definitely do that or you could make a t-shirt or something yeah that's maybe that's a good moveie yeah well are you going to sell t-shirts for me uh let's see that's a people would love to have this t-shirt I guarantee you well you know there's an anthon uh t-shirt that we're going to be working on we should explain to people what anthon is if they didn't listen to the first podcast you are built you have essentially you've created your own religion you're like everybody's always said that wouldn't it be amazing if somebody created a religion that uh actually wasn't based on anything ancient or based on trying to get your money but based on the the true principles of love and the word that you like to use all the time God you know you want to take that word back you try to take that word back from the Bible bangers but um it's uh it's a kind of an amazing thing to do you know because I know you and I know like what you're about you're not doing this for any nefarious reasons you're doing it for the perfect reasons and that's really rare where someone has a voice and they they choose to just go all in like that you you've created a religion man well it's uh an orientation toward the spiritual and yes uh legitimately
say uh religion because that's uh within the um Embrace of the uh expanding and evolving Spirit of Humanity uh we have to start thinking as a planetary civilization and the internet has helped us all to form an image of a networked kind of uh distributed intelligence yeah that goes all around the world and yeah that's happened before people even realized it right it's already crept up on people exactly it's it's now uh kind of the ocean in which we swim but by making note of it uh we can we notice it yeah and uh so by the power of that community that uh connects virtually with each other uh the kickstarter uh campaign for the building of entheon has been going strongly and just uh creeping upward every day and uh just today like broke the 100,000 uh Mark and uh we're going toward 125 and we've got about uh N9 days left so where how do they get to this if people want to contribute to this Kickstarter well they can go to kickstarter.com uh-huh and uh go Enon where do they put that in the search I just I just Googled go uh Kickstarter right oh okay just Google that Google Alex gr Kickstarter so um and you what you're doing is essentially you're building a temple yeah you're building a work of art that it really it's kind of fascinating because if a lot of people who believe that psychedelic drugs are at the heart of almost all religions and psychedelic experience and psychedelic imagery um in in ancient religious artwork where you know there's things that represent mushrooms and shapes that are mushrooms these um incredible buildings that have been built for religion I mean if you really stop and think about some of the greatest architectural achievements it's been like the most beautiful ones have been the ones that were created for religions it's like they you know in wanting in whatever part of what there are that is good wanting to achieve some higher level they've done it with their art with the the architecture with you look at some of the ancient Roman architecture that's dedicated to the Catholic church it's staggering stuff outside of the
creepiness of the Catholic Church which is undeniable and I came from it the the artwork the architectural artwork is just masterful it's stunning it's like nothing else you know Michelangelo you know there you go you know the greatest of all Geniuses artistic uh you know architectural and uh his paintings and sculpture do you think that any of those guys tripped well you know he was a neop platinous and uh what does that mean well that means he was an idealist and that he was uh he had just become familiar with the um we're looking at the image Ines that is insane yeah yeah I'm sorry so keep going yeah exactly so you spun around a little bit and got to see the all the heads yeah cool that is that is amazing and uh so all these uh works are going to be on viewow in the uh within antheon dude you can change people's lives just with these pictures just they're so trippy they make you like that one right there that makes you go okay what is real and what's not real that thing's too freaky yeah what is reality why is that image so familiar cuz we are connected with everything you you know I mean all look all the Mystic uh Traditions talk about uh there's only one of us you know right all of them yeah and so that that's the foundation of the understanding uh is a a sense of Oneness and uh so the idea of the uh networked self and of a a planetary uh sense of humanity is I think wearing away the uh nationhood and nation state uh ideal uh toward a um a hopeful and Democratic but will struggle for some time with that yeah I think it's a possibility you know I I have hope for people I really do and I think the internet is what gives me the most hope cuz I think that it's the first time people have ever had a straight pipe to the world everybody has a straight pipe to everybody else and information is settling and people are starting to understand they greater understanding of what constitutes a happy life and how to achieve happiness and how how to surround yourself with positive people and how to you know how to express yourself in in in a healthy way and that's all the internet the internet has given people I think a way
better understanding of of life itself than any generation has ever had before and so so to have this and to to create it with the Internet it's kind of uh exactly It's Kind of Perfect it's kind of beautiful yeah like uh crowdsourcing Sacred Space that is a uh It could only happen uh today with uh friends well because of people like you though that are doing things like that that's one of the reasons why I have faith it's one of the reasons why I think that I know a lot of people gravitate towards your stuff a lot of people gravitate towards your words and they gravitate towards your artwork and I think that gives me hope I think that there's uh there's people that are trying to put themselves on a on a good frequency and there's people that are not there's people that are just unly negative they'll never let it go sure but but but they're they're at that phase of the alchemical uh journey of healing and uh you know it's like uh I don't know it it's all I think uh there's a spectrum for sure yeah there's spectrum of Fortune luck you know the the luck of the draw of where you were born who you associated with oh my God your family there's a that's an undeniable luck of the draw you know I I think every day I grew up with the people I grew up with you know I I got really lucky with my parents they were really nice you know that's not the case with everybody and that's luck so well he almost he can't make you know some people are just they're they're born into such a massive deficit I got a few years uh on you I think and uh I recently read about uh a schopenhauer essay where he talks about uh the how almost everyone at a certain age looks back on their life and even events that appeared random uh during the their occurrence uh appeared to have been faded and uh took them in a particular direction and that really had become very important for them and so it's curious that uh because I mean it was like that with meeting Allison that was uh it was like that with taking LSD uh it was um you know their momentous and uh lifechanging kind of um occurrences and they can turn you from a a sour uh and suicidal person to a person that has uh a love for life and a uh a commitment to trying to
um uh leave the most uh uh the gift that you've been uh sort of uh requested to uh to perform you know the service you've been asked to perform what do you mean by that well entheon uh is a sanctuary of visionary art and that's always been our aspiration is to provide a more on a more permanent basis of course that's still an aspiration at this point but uh that we did acquire the land a 40 acre property and uh we uh do have permission now after um over a couple of years of uh negotiation and uh preparation of site plan and getting site plan approval from the town we now have the permission to build uh anthon and uh it is uh and the kickstarter has been a way of connecting with this net of beings that have uh you know also taking on the imagining of it with us and the financing of it where do you see this going do you see this becoming uh anthon like once what if once antheon is built what if a bunch of people want to like move into the property would you would you consider like setting guest house you have a guest house yes we have a guest house to receive them and that is open now for business and uh we've been hosting uh numerous people that come and stay there already and we we're open on a more weekly uh basis now uh and but it's it's just a beautiful time of the year it's and uh there's wisdom Trails you can walk around and there's some art in the house the cosmic chist is there how far uh in is the construction process well we have done reinforcing of the carriage house around which this uh building is going to be uh the heads are going to be clad and for folks that are just listening on iTunes uh what Alex's uh you you could see it if you go to Alex alexg gray.com so if you go to Alex Gray g y uh.com and go look at some of the images of and it's really it's it's the weirdest craziest coolest looking building I've ever seen in my life and if you you do completely build it this way it's really going to be one of the coolest things on earth I mean it's a it's a building that's a work of art and it's a stunning work of art it really is badass it's very interesting cuz it it makes a a um statement and I I see it as within a lineage of the development of
different kinds of sacred architecture and just one other little bud on that tree but uh it's attempting to point to the underlying um Unity of the Quest for wisdom and compassion in all the different religious quests and that they have they share uh also in common uh the angel of the of creative expression which is the imagination and uh all world religions were born in the creative imagination with the Visionary mystical experience um you know there was the uh the founding of uh Islam on the Journey of uh of Muhammad to the seventh heaven and uh he encounters many uh Visionary kinds of dimensions on the way and um and you know receives his uh wisdom and you know you have Mary receiving an angel you know you have Moses talking to a burning bush all of these are Visionary mystical experiences and uh they're the foundations of many of the world religions Mara is dispelled in the Visionary experience uh with the Buddha the the soldiers uh the Buddha turns the arrows into flowers these are all kinds of uh Visionary mystical uh contact with an infinite intermediate realm between the physical material world and the transcendental world and uh all the really uh uh mystical uh Traditions have them and uh we've just kind of lost track of them except now we've recovered them through psychedelics do you think that that was the heart of you feel like that was the heart of all organized religion that originally it was some sort of a psychedelic experience a so it could have been like yoga or condal or something like that it can happen on the NCH and it and it has uh for many but for some fasting and uh there are numerous kinds of um techniques austerities and things like that uh that could have been a natural part of life yes I haven't been eating for 3 Days uh but the water is a little tasting funny and uh and lo and behold there's a vision and an angel appears and yeah people would say hey yeah you're about to die you're hallucinating yeah or just this and and you'll be okay yeah soon so you can go to the edge and see the other world as well and that you know can be valid as
well but uh yeah people one of the weird things about psychedelics is people always uh even if it was one of the most profound experiences ever and one of the most amazing experiences ever people will tell you yeah but it was just just your mind playing tricks on you like it doesn't matter and you can go okay but it's whether it was whether I really did travel to another dimension and communicate with infinite beings that were made out of love and understanding who told me the secret to life is positive energy and positive if even even if it was just my imagination I still experienced it I experienced it as if it was real so whether it was real or whether it wasn't real I get the exact same result something happened that was unbelievably incredible it took me to some place that was infinitely beautiful and then something happened to me like either that happened or it didn't happen well definitely happened it doesn't matter if it was imaginary it doesn't matter if it was only inside my head the whole world comes out of the inside of your head the when we're kids I remember when I was a kid they would say like oh he's got such an imagination this one it was talking about kids that were Liars you know that's how people treated the imagination the kids were just fibers you know because that's imagination to some people you know some people they they didn't think it was something to be encouraged but it's really where everything comes from and that's the weirdest thing about it is the imagination conjures up an idea which becomes a laptop it conjures up an idea which becomes an airplane it all comes from the imagination whether it's artistic whether it's a song whether it's a joke that's it's the weirdest thing ever it's and everybody wants to pretend that it's so normal it's so normal you just thinking [ __ ] up out of the middle of [ __ ] nowhere and creating nuclear power you know what did you do you sat down and you wrote some stuff on some a pad and then you figured it out where's this all coming from where's the idea to even do that coming from where's the idea that some some guy wants to be like a [ __ ] bird and put Wings on and figure out how to fly and he eventually figures it out now we just travel all over the world we don't think anything of it I mean the imagination is
crazy the imagination has done some amazing things for human beings in this world and yet we still don't give it the credit it deserves it's uh it's kind of shocking you know imagination is like the most underrated thing of all all time and yet it's the foundation of all our advancement and evolution and people like what you need is to work hard I don't have a [ __ ] imagination sitting there seeing some [ __ ] that's not there all right well I think that that's the other thing that the um Visionary experience with psychedelics does is it convinces people of the uh existence of the Realms and uh if they you know suddenly find themselves in a DMT uh space yeah you know it's like very unsettling perhaps uh but then at least you uh can see that there is there is a there there there is an infinite there there and uh so this inner uh Consciousness experience that uh the uh the one self is having through us uh is is something I'm uh just fascinated by I'm fascinated by how the mystics get at the one do you think now this has always been a very uh a strange one amongst the mushroom connoisseurs of the world um some believe that in consuming that life form which is really closer to animal than it is to plant right yes and consuming that mushroom what you're doing is that's how it communicates with you that's right and then these visions that you're getting this information that you're getting just almost downloaded to you in a way that you can't understand or even comprehend most of it I always describe trying to remember what you're learning on mushrooms like trying to grab fish in a river like I can't [ __ ] grab anything I can't hold on to it it's just too crazy I'm seeing too much I'm trying to calm down but I'm seeing too much and it's and then you sort of go oh okay this is where everything comes from comes from this crazy place yeah the endless imagination and uh in flowing streams just like that and most of the big ones get away yeah and then and then and then a few are just life altering and like the thing that uh really welded Allison and I together uh cuz you know it was my first Acid Trip in her apartment that opened me up to uh um the the world of light and the world
of uh a higher possibility Beyond suicide and you know nihilism and all that was that how you were approaching life yeah yeah kind what do you think the cause of that is is that environmental is it behavioral is it a pattern that you get into Pro well let's see I was 2021 and getting uh and probably there's something chemical going on hormonal changes possi I was wondering whether I was crazy um and uh I had a steady diet of uh kind of nihilist and existentialist authors and uh it reinforced the sense of absurdity because I thought that was what sophisticated uh artists would uh put want to put into their work was a healthy dose of nihilism and cynicism and sarcasm and all that and and uh yet that also very wrong and uh so it's very competitive H I don't know and I so I anyway I was struggling with this kind of polarity kind of situation and and prone to extremes and things like that so you know with with a uh kind of uh my prayer uh in the morning was basically you know God if you exist you know show yourself because I'm tired of life you know wow at 21 right oh my God that's so crazy and so it was kind of like a challenge I was kind of like yeah right show me and so uh and I was nothing happened it's art school I was saying goodbye to my professor on the corner around the corner comes Allison in a VW says hey I'm having a party later tonight hey why don't you come on over and the professor picks me up and uh says hey I've got some clue and acid uh and uh so hey I was going to kill myself Professor had acid yeah what a cool Professor very cool you don't get those kind of professors anymore was that Columbus College of Art and Design no that was out in uh the mum School in uh Boston in Boston yeah what that's where we met oh wow yeah in uh conceptual art where where's that of course uh let's see it's on the Fenway you know near Garder Museum where the where the Museum of Fine Arts is I grew up in Newton sub yeah and uh I went back recently it was uh it's really interesting I was we were driving around I forgot like how historic certain parts of Boston are my God yeah you know when you look at graveyards graveyards that are from the 1600s and you know really old buildings you're like wow I forgot
like this is this is a historic town well I always felt very much at home in Boston did you hang around with any Irish drunks because that would change your mind with the quickness Irish drunks on coke that's I knew a lot of those Italian ones as well I don't want to discriminate the people that I liked was the kind of philosophical tradition that was there I loved Emerson for instance and Thor and uh and William James there at Harvard and then later Tim ly and and Romos and those guys and so there was a tradition of a kind of Altered States and they they did a lot of the uh experimentation the original experiments with uh uh Walder Panky when he did the Good Friday experiment but it's amazing city as far as like education goes I think that has more colleges per capita than anywhere else in the world or in the country rather and um I also think you think about like Harvard and MIT both in the same city what those I mean it's Cambridge but what are the odds of that Cambridge is basically Boston it's same thing it's like wow what a crazy town for smart people oh my God if they were so smart why would they be there it's so cold well it it they honker in yeah and work hard yeah that it makes you a hard worker that's for damn sure you grew up with a work ethic you know I grew up I learned how to work hard because every around me worked hard look at you I got lucky no you well for sure trust me there's a lot of luck involved absolutely but you know growing up with people in Boston like it really definitely when that [ __ ] winter comes man you got to be prepared see I'd love California but there's something about it like I even look at my kids and I'm like you know what it do you good to freeze your ass off every now and then it could do you good to realize that you got to get in the house cuz it's cold outside you know to know that that shit's out there I think there's a humility that comes with having to deal with weather and unfortunately as we're saying this podcast a bunch of people died in Oklahoma uh with a horrible tornado unb you know we have twisters acknowledge how sad that is and how [ __ ] crazy it is that there's a part of the world where the sky becomes an angry machine
monster you know spinning wind that picks up semi-trailers and sends them flying through the air that is horrific move out OFA by the way move out of Oklahoma by the way a lot of them can't man a lot of that's the the problem a lot of people are poor you know and they've been there for years and the familes there it's not that easy to just kind of pack up your [ __ ] go to Michigan it's cheaper it it's definitely cheaper let's more bullets though yeah maybe run Detroit apparently right Detroit is like the worst place in the world to be a book they say that Detroit is a 47% illiteracy rate in Detroit that's did you make that up I just made it up that's hilarious it's it's crazy if you really stop and think about it 47% literacy rate like what what is going on like who is no one's paying attention to anybody like like the cover the government should absolutely focus on situations like that the idea that we shouldn't intervene in places where it's gotten so out of hand that half the people can't read like that should be thought of as an epidemic because all of those people that can't read are going to give birth to children that probably can't read either and you have thousands if not millions of people who can't read and then they're going to enter into the world unprepared unprepared to communicate to exchange information to be able to find things out for themselves have to take a bunch of people's words for things you can't read things I mean there's so much involved in being illiterate the fact that there's like millions of potential crazy people that are going to go through life completely illiterate in 2013 and no one's up in arms about that it's really kind of shocking it is and it's uh something you know each one of us has to focus on in whatever way we can you know yeah it's it's hard to make a person it's hard to raise a human being it's not an easy thing and when we're looking at human beings that are being raised in like really terrible conditions and I mean it's should be like one of the first things like the whole world concentrates on before you concentrate on I mean it sounds so hippie but it seems like if you really want to have a happy life you've got to be doing more good than you are harm and there there's got to be a way to do that first there's
got to be a way to say look look there's x amount of people in the world that are starving let's all globally chip in to try to stop that from happening so that these starving people don't have Starving Children who never get a chance to get some momentum in life and be comfortable and happy it never comes it never comes to to just give them a Chance wouldn't that be like the most important thing you could ever do like as as a race stop the worst conditions to stop the worst conditions but Sam Kennison had the best bit about that oh it was so cruel but it was so amazing what he say he was talking about Ethiopian children they have those commercials he's always like you just fix yourself some dinner he sitting there and his commercial and he's like won't you help him won't you send he's like he's like why don't you help him you're only 5 feet away this guy the guy behind the camera got a Snickers bar going not now not now shut the it was one of the best bits ever it's was like we have deserts in America too we just don't live in them [ __ ] yeah like he he said that we you know I forget how it goes something about we uh yeah we we sent we we came over here with your food and it occurred to us that we you wouldn't need food if you people would move where the food is like you live in a [ __ ] desert and he grabs him and he puts his face in the sand see what that is that's sand you know it's going to be a thousand years from now [ __ ] sand it's terrible mean bit so mean see you're all in even though kennon's dead long dead still it's ooh it's such a mean bit Yeah but it was hilarious it was they crossed that line of being [ __ ] mean but so funny you're like oh you [ __ ] oh God he was he was a wild [ __ ] Sam Kennison incredible we were talking about Hicks before the show started you know that I we we both thought that like Hicks was like the first truly like psychedelic commedian who had uh psychedelic ideas yeah that he was putting forth that you know some of them weren't even that funny they were just incredibly profound that it was in the middle of some other [ __ ] that was funny was what was so weird about it right right and uh that's how he would drop those meaningful you know mind bombs into your uh psyche so that they kind of melted
and uh stayed yeah you know he he knew how to uh kind of stain your Consciousness with uh a a new uh uh perception and a lot of his stuff still holds up you know especially if you haven't especially if you haven't heard it before it still holds up cuz he was saying about the Bush Administration the first Bush Administration by the way that's you know that was when he was you know railing against a machine it's just like you could just take it and substitute the words and it works today it worked with George W it works for Obama I mean it just it just the material works just substitute this guy for that guy and he was it's still relevant it's he gave birth to like a whole completely different style of comedian like that the style of comedian the came after him was like they wanted to like educate you which is really weird cuz some of them were idiots so uh there was a on the wall of uh the back the Green Room at the Dallas uh no the um Atlanta punch line there's a big sign that says don't stop trying to be Hicks oh quit trying to be Hicks yeah because there were so many guys that were doing that there were so many guys interesting wow yeah it was just so it was so amazing to watch that he like I mean Dr gami he's a physicist one of those uh particle guys had a funny thing to say about uh about people that were sort of Faking it he was like it goes let them it goes I let them use the word Quantum even if they don't understand it because maybe have the OBS to understand it now and I remember hearing like wow that's so profound that's interesting I would have never thought that far ahead like he's like letting people fake it not calling him on it just so they just keep looking into it if they're intrigued then why should he be the stop exactly why should be a like listen [ __ ] you know you don't know what you're talking about Hicks um made a lot of people aware of psychedelics too there was a lot of people that did not know anything about like heroic doses or any of that [ __ ] like Hicks was like the first stand up comedian to ever talk about things that way the other ones that would talk about mushrooms they would like well we did mushrooms and you know we got all Goofy and Bobby thought he was a horse you know that's usually the story it was
never like it wasn't like what Hicks was describing was like what is this guy seeing because how come it's different than everybody else that takes mushrooms and I think uh just it was so interesting and fascinating when he would talk about it that it just led a lot of people to explore that I think he was another uh kind of apostle in the uh in a kind of nightclub setting yeah I mean IND digitally still is you know we could still hear his words exactly because we resonate with the authenticity that and the rawness that uh he projected and with the Psychedelic uh perspective that allowed him a kind of brutal honesty and uh and yet uh there was something remarkably uh magnetic because he he was like a laser about the truth it seemed that was what he wanted uh to be about even at the you know uh and to to reveal a um a kind of underlying Darkness was something that he was expert at yeah yeah he really was and um he you know he had a lot of references that he would use in his material that would make you seek out the [ __ ] like what Terence McKenna would call a heroic dose you know and was like who the [ __ ] is Terence McKenna then I started reading about Terence McKenna whoa this guy holy [ __ ] I started reading food to the gods I was like oh my God like where's this guy been you know I mean Hicks exposes people or did expose people yes she did and then once you got into the McKenna door then you were Off to the Races yeah once you start listening to those McKenna MP3s that are available online you want to talk about something that will just crack your Consciousness those uh mechan MP3s of some of those lectures that he gave he just what a that guy had a very strange way of thinking yes I used to think of him as the uh the spokes monkey for the mushroom you know that uh he was kind of plugged in to that but he and his brother are both uh extraordinary in their um uh intersection with the plant kingdom and uh the fungal Kingdom and Cat McKenna as well who Contin to work at Botanical Dimensions the uh what is it was a story they told of uh Lau Hera where they uh they took too much and Dennis kind of went he went radio silent for a couple of weeks went completely crazy for a while yes that they're you
know dealing with like dinner plate siiz mushrooms and they're eating them all day would whoa would you like to interview Dennis I bet had him on oh you've had him on I bet you did he was great with the brothers of the screaming yeah yeah we talked about his book and we just talked about psychedelics and we talked very specifically about the the actual science behind the possibility of psychedelics creating language yes especially um particularly psilocybin and he was explaining how you know it would make sense that language was created through the use of of sosy and by virtue of the effect that cocy and has in a very scientific way that I can't recreate interesting yeah and I was like oh I never even heard anybody say it that way before but that completely makes sense yeah obviously one Theory and I don't understand really what he's saying it just sounds awesome you know I don't know whether or not there's uh some science to it other people might disagree with it let's say that it's a common place for people to want to express themselves creatively uh in the wake of a psychedelic experience yeah I was going to ask you though um why do you think that is that people would dismiss that why do you think it is that people would ridicule that like someone saying that you actually learned something from a psychedelic experience you say that to the the average person and they they'll they'll look at you with ridicule like why how did that happen do you think well I'd uh I'd like the uh listeners uh to help us think of a word to uh place that in the same context as homophobia or uh misogyny or uh you know something like uh racism you know like uh why do people who alter their Consciousness or who speak of it Inspire uh the uh hysteria in people that don't take them yeah you know Timothy L yes exactly that's a great great line um yeah well I I think that for a lot of folks they first of all the equate drugs with bad you know they think of drugs the problem is meth is a drug too and meth wrecks lives cocaine is a drug too cocaine [ __ ] people up but then there's pot which doesn't and then there's mushrooms which does these are you know they're all drugs though so
well is I mean you could look at some as a food as and it's better maybe to classify some as a Sacrament that have been a Sacrament uh for longer than they were a quote drug yeah um they were a way to that people connected with the uh with the higher Dimensions what is that the term entheogen what is the actual uh translation of that entho uh Theo of course is God or the Divine and enia would be the divine within a bunch of dudes that are really douchy just decided to name their son Theo after hearing that like that's my boy the god the god Theo [ __ ] awesome so that's what entheogen means yeah so it's from the god it's uh a a way to discover or a um a substance that allows you to discover the God within or the divine within the spirit within I I don't blame people that are uh that discriminate against psychedelics if they haven't had psychedelics I think it's just an ignorance thing I think uh people have a lot of uh bad ideas and I don't necessarily think it's their responsibility to be right about something that they haven't experience themselves and that is you know in society it's sort of is it's looked down upon it's looks down upon to alter your Consciousness like that that if you do it you're probably looking to escape reality that's like the standard take on it yet many of these people would consider themselves to be religious people sure a lot of them and so if you look at the foundations of all world religions as we've just gone through it uh we can see that they were based on this Visionary mystical experience which is what we're saying is a value for everyone yeah but Alex that was thousands of years ago we don't want it anymore all right if Jesus came around today no one would believe him there was some dude that was claiming that he was a Son of God he was giving wisdom to everybody they'd probably put him in Guantanamo Bay there's no way they would let that guy just run around running [ __ ] I think there's a lot of uh people uh God uh inspired people on the loose you know sure they're just like spores yeah absolutely but there's but the idea of the one a messiah coming back a magical Messiah with power to bring back from the dead why did I did I already say my theory about the the second
coming no okay I would love to hear it you're smiling like a little kid right now okay cuz I thought I I repeat myself endlessly but uh welcome to the podcast that's what we do here okay so the the first coming of Christ uh was the revelation of the uh connection of uh basically of the the Divinity of humanity right that was the Revelation and uh the uh Second Coming uh through a kind of uh idiosyncratic uh uh tradition uh that is uh coming out of the uh South America uh a lot of iasa churches all over the world are um drinking uh and contacting this uh higher Dimension uh through the iasa and uh I call I in no demeaning way I call it the green Jesus uh because and grain Mary really uh because it's uh revealing the Divinity of Nature and there's nothing more important right now uh than recognizing the Divinity and the sacredness of uh nature and saving uh the life web in whatever ways we can uh somehow turning our our ship around from a self-destructive species you know this is the tight place we're heading in to it is but hasn't it always been like this isn't this the yin and the Yang that makes people human is this the push and the pull sometimes we need to Rally against some impending doom order oh God I know it's it's a part of being a person we're goofy we don't want to cram for tests we're we're adolescent species uh and wildly destructive and uh we only exist through the grace of the um the the kind of spirits that are tolerant because we're so cre ative I think that they hope that we will uh work on this uh together with the intelligence that's that's seeding today and we've also been born in a Super Lucky spot as far as the history of humanity we didn't have to go through the people trying to make it across the the West with wagon trains and we didn't have to go through any of that we we're lucky we have Internet we have perhaps we'll be floating in some astral dimension in the uh in the next lifetime that's possible too do you do you have do you feel you have a responsibility from you know you're you're the fact that you have this uh this this voice and you looked at as this sort of psychedelic Visionary guy do you feel like you have a
responsibility to try to get information out things that you've learned things that you think possibly could help people cuz you obviously have a vision of things and you obviously have a very well thought out View of humanity and of Consciousness do you do you feel that you have an obligation to express these thoughts I think that anyone who experiences the deeper uh Realms maybe has a turnabout in their uh conscience it's not just about higher Consciousness but there's a a sense that if you're connected with everyone and with everything then what's your moral responsibility or your ethical uh respon resp to your interconnectedness and so uh if there's a bunch of hippies just took their pants off right now like I can't take it that's too love it's too much love man sorry well I think that uh there's a natural resistance to allowing it to be as magnificent as it actually is you know there also a fear of the unknown too totally people that haven't had it I think that that's why I don't fault them the ones who are anti you know a lot of people associate drugs with your ruining your life not with saving your life they're capable of both totally in my case it was the other it was the saving my life and meeting uh my wife and 39 years later here we are you know whatever seed was born in the saving of a life uh and a you know giving a literal turning point and saying you know can you see me now you know well a switch literally was turned on and you became a different person like shedding a cocoon and the you know caterpillar becomes a butterfly or whatever the [ __ ] happens whenever you have a really profound experience but some people don't do that some people do they this is what I say is that a really profound psychedelic experience is like control alt delete for your Consciousness where your brain reboots with a fresh operating system and there's only one folder on the desktop and the desktop poer says my old [ __ ] and you can either open it up and go right back into these predetermined patterns of behavior once a psychedelic experience has faded because it'll be more comfortable that way than sort of reassessing the way you've been living your life or you know you could hit delete and try to keep
going and do DMT again try to get right back there right when it stops being fresh just reintroduce that M oh there it is okay I got it okay thanks there's evolutionary Toe Hold that uh you can uh uh shine a light toward your future that you're headed toward uh rather than uh depend on the uh effects of of uh past Behavior you know wow yeah you know what's been really tripping me out is how many people that I know that are starting to have uh semi least psychedelic experiences from doing yogah MH you know I've had maybe one time in my life where I did yoga and I felt like I High I felt like I was high on marijuana that's what it felt like at the end of it it was like wow it's just like whatever it is that you have that that switch that you can hit when you do the right poses the right amount of time with the right amount of energy there's a weird switch that you hit at the end where I was literally high but that's as far as I've ever taken it I've never had a hallucination I've never astrally projected I've never but I have heard some of the [ __ ] craziest things from people that practice Kundalini Yoga that if I didn't know them really well and the way they were telling it to me is like so matter of factly I would say this guy's crazy he's just making up a bunch of [ __ ] except for the one time that I got myself High cuz I was really high I mean I was high I felt great I had love in my heart I wanted to hug people I I I felt like colors were brighter sounds were cleaner I really felt really high and uh it was just from doing yoga and I was like if that's possible I I've never really continually practiced Kundalini but the people who really get into Pras and all that they say that there's a a wavelength that you can hit where you tap into that whatever it is the pineal gland whatever it is the DMT Factory and you just boom open up the doorway and punch right through and that you can do it through yoga yes absolutely have you done it through yoga uh yes and there are different uh kind of like the could the idea for let's be honest with you the idea Pon really came came about first of all through uh Alison and I had a routine of uh yoga and then meditation and uh during that period basically uh instead of like kind of forcing myself to imagine something I was saying well God what do you want you
know what would you like me to put on uh there and so it showed this the interconnected kind of uh godhead type thing it's perfect so God's on it okay God nailed just do something like that yeah come on here it is okay thank you so you know uh that's on the notch I guess you know I mean or you're not on the NCH ever dude let's be honest exactly you're you're you're so psychedelic anyway from point A you're you're naturally psychedelic and then on top of that all the things you've done how could you ever pretend that you're ever on the NCH you've you've experienced too too much to be on the NCH well your reference point is now more Cosmic than uh sort of uh isolated yes and you feel more connected with people because and it must happen to you um you have a community you have uh uh met with many of the people that come out to see you and over your tour and things like that um how has your sense of community uh evolved in your understanding that's a good question well what I've found is that um by doing something like a podcast having conversations with people like you and you know my friends that come on you you're you're sitting you're you're putting out like the kind of uh conversations that we're having right now you're putting these out to people that live in places where they don't know anybody like you they can't get a guy like you to sit down for 3 hours I couldn't get you to sit down for 3 hours and just talk like this unless we were going to do a podcast I mean it probably could but this is the way to do it you know so everybody can be in on it as well but that's one of the best things for me about this podcast is that I'm getting to talk to like these people like Chris Ryan or danieli blei or all these interesting people that I get to talk to on a regular basis to me that's a a beautiful little situation that I've stumbled into and uh for me I'm very I feel very fortunate just to be able to have all these conversations with people and then now there's a sense of obligation because I I know that people enjoy these conversations and I want and I I don't want to ever have them think that I'm not going to do it anymore we're going to keep just going like it's fun I know you enjoy it I enjoy it too it's totally Mutual thanks a lot I'm
glad you like it and I think with that it's with that attitude we've we've created uh this this group of people that listen to the podcast and maybe they've never had like really uh introspective conversations with people you know maybe they've never really thought about living in another part of the world or maybe they've never thought about expanding the life that they live outside of this you know one Realm Of Consciousness that they've inhabited their whole life one way of looking at the world whether it's racist or or gluttonous or whether they've just been abusing their body or whether they just been lazy about getting things done and when you you hear a podcast where you get a chance to see all these different people's takes on things you know from Everlast the singer to my friend Joey Diaz and all these different people's takes on things they're all different and dynamic and having access to that is like having a bunch of like really smart friends around you all the time so if you can listen to these podcasts not everybody's really smart you know I'm not I'm not saying we we're all really smart saying some of them are really smart but if you get a chance to have these interesting conversations and they enrich people's Consciousness because you might be stuck in a bad spot I've been in a bad spot in my life where I didn't have a lot of cool people to talk to couldn't just tune into a podcast you know and so my sense of community is sort of uh it's one become a thing of obligation of on an a happy obligation but I definitely think we're obligated to continue to provide content and it's uh you know I I remember being addicted to radio shows or or different bands when I was a kid and you want more stuff you want constantly more stuff so we're we're you know that's a big part of community with me but it's also one of the most the the happiest things that I've gotten from this podcast is people coming up to me telling me that it changed the way they they think about things tell telling me that now they're they're happy telling me that now they eat healthy telling me that now they just stop being an [ __ ] to people that they realize they were really just frustrated and they needed to get their [ __ ] together and it's over and over and over again you know and
that that sense of community I mean it was completely accidental we didn't like set out to try to create some sort of a a group that sort of tunes into we just hope people enjoyed the podcast we didn't think it was going to be uh I know it it's a very interesting thing when do a group of supportive listeners become a community and it's kind of like uh we see uh that today people uh would like to gather in a lot of different places and uh to uh coales for uh a few hours yeah and uh have a temporary Community well I think we'd like to have a full community but we don't trust people to not get [ __ ] cookie you know it's like not everybody has their [ __ ] together no you can't just walk into my house you might be nuts and and by the way I'm tired I just got home from work I'd really like to just watch TV I don't want you coming over my house so there's a certain boundary that we all have to set up that's why the the church model of the uh you know there's a time when you devote some time to uh this other thing too that's going on that's more of a community thing and that's uh why uh I ask about it because it's something that we've been thinking a about a lot and it's going to happen on its own it's uh people are going to gravitate I told you all the all the Fringe people from all over the planet are coming to you my friend they're going to zoom in on you along with some cops probably you're going to get some undercover cops that are going to try to pretend to be your friends and try to get deep into the organization and find out you're real and then eventually they'll admit it to you you'll give them some asset they'll tell you they're a cop they'll apologize you'll say it's okay you well I don't we don't give anything to anyone or really uh Advocate that much we do tell the truth about what happened to us and I'm uh and I'm of the belief that uh the discovery of of LSD 70 years ago this year um is a quite a miraculous occurrence and probably of uh a religious importance to humanity in the great scheme of things and I think 70 years after the um crucifixion basically it wasn't going so well for the Christians you know and uh so there's a uh a a time you know that and
that's why I was trying to think of oh this is kind of like a civil rights uh issue that is is a uh pointing toward a higher freedom of Consciousness and uh the and special um uh places I'm not saying the these are not uh potentially dangerous substances you know and in the wrong hands at the wrong time and things like that it's can be a terrible a weapon even you know so uh they're they're definitely uh uh things that shouldn't be toyed with and some people should stay very clear of them uh they happen to be uh something that gave us tremendous insight and I think many other people as well not because I said so but because people naturally have discovered this it's part of it's part of contemporary culture even it's just a weird thing that we have once we write things down on paper we say this is a law even when it gets to the overwhelming breaking point and it's probably it's probably not there with psychedelics I think it is with pot but to when it gets to the undeniable breaking point where people just they they're like no like 70% can say they favor legalization like sorry it's just it's not up for grabs the the federal government's not really interested in what you're really oh 70% that's great call us when it's a million perc and we'll still tell you to [ __ ] yourself it's like they just it's the laws don't make any sense and it only points at this point at this this time to suppression it's all only that's the only thing that makes sense they're non-lethal okay they're non-lethal lifechanging and there's a lot of people that give it five stars on Yelp okay it's like you know this I mean some people have had some bad times on mushrooms that's a fact but if uh if mushrooms had a Yelp page it would be a [ __ ] that [ __ ] would be filled with stars and there would be like a link to it every one of those reviews would say more at the bottom you have to click to get an extra paragraph or many infinite stars are there yeah you it wouldn't it would be yeah yeah if you had less than five stars for mushrooms you're an [ __ ] all right give it five stars stupid was the best thing that ever happened to you I mean they the John's Hopkins University is now starting to public studies uh saying
that just one mushroom trip 20 years ago has a profound effect on personality and improved people's Outlook and and their level of Happiness like it makes it can make people happier that sounds so stupid that it's illegal I mean it literally how many people are like you how many people are like well I just needed that reset and with a loving person that I meet I have a great time and then all of a sudden boom I'm off to the races on a totally different track how many people have to say that before we we as a culture go well isn't this this Alex Gray is like way cooler he's like a way better version Look he makes amazing art he's a nice guy he's happy he seems fulfilled he's trying to create a a center a beautiful building where people can come and worship all this stuff like what what is wrong with that so what's going on here like what are we trying to protect people from we're trying to protect it sounds like you're trying to protect people from Enlightenment that would sound Preposterous is that what kind of a what kind of a benevolent leader would you be if you're trying to protect people from potential Enlightenment or are you scared of potential Enlightenment yourself and knowing that if you do take mushrooms you can't put on the bulletproof vest and tear gas the kids you can't you're not going to do it you're not you're not going to be the pepper spray cop when the kids are protesting cuz they're not going to be you have a conscience and you're and you you want to do can't do that gig anymore yeah you got to get a new gig well if you do do it you'll have nightmares oh yeah yeah imagine doing mushrooms and then pepper spraying kids oh my God the Demonic nightmares you would have for decades it's uh and and then the habits that you'd uh form to avoid uh confronting them yeah oh Jesus you'd become a [ __ ] gambling addict for sure three cigarettes in your mouth at the same time looking looking a bed on a Roach Crossing a parking lot you bet on anything just whatever distract yourself from there a lot of people out there that just got started off in a bad way that's true and very few things can help them except psychedelic experiences they're one of the best ways to affect those and like we said it doesn't have to be a drug you can get psychedelic
experiences through meditation through if you if you practice it enough allegedly he says he's done it you know I've never got there other than getting hot no like you're saying like doing the yoga and then meditation even not for a long time there are many different approaches to meditation you know from the simplest kind of watching your breath uh to a uh a kind of uh Allison talks about an aesthetic kind of reception of uh considering each moment like a you know uh for the beautiful special unique uh thing that it is and uh like we listen to music you know we listen with a uh an ear of appreciation and things like that if we if we had an aesthetic scrutiny and could see the beauty of of uh of our Cosmic situation you know that we evolve to this point where we can talk to each other through a network of of uh intelligence and light uh and share uh potential uh connection uh Community even of a a new wave of Consciousness that's uh you know spread throughout the world you know I feel like these are these podcasts and things like that are the are the mushroom fruit of a mycelial body of underground intelligences that interweave and uh then they pop out on these special occasions and uh well it's a door to open people up to people like you to new possibilities new ways new ways of thinking and sometimes that's all you need is just one unique idea that's put in your head by someone that you don't even know just listening to them talk to somebody else and that thought sends you off in a different direction a person's words can be psychedelic there's a a lot of different things childbirth can be psychedelic there's a lot of different things that happen to you in this life that are are you know we we think of psychedelics as being hallucinations and we think of them as being sort of uh child's fair but you know the reality is that there's a a lot that comes out of them that it's very difficult to get any other way and the way it comes out so reliably it's like no one like mushrooms work for almost everyone on the planet like no one's immune like you could be out of focus and not really get there with Kundalini you really just can never really get your [ __ ] in Groove and you just have a bad class you take five grams of mushrooms you're off to the
moon no matter if you like it or not you're going to you're going to get sucked into the wake and hopefully you can let go write it out and be okay but you might just clench up and it might just go Haywire yes and that's the uh uh that's why you're always choosing a supportive and safe uh setting uh if possible and in under ideal conditions even those that you don't have to worry about anything about it that you can relax totally and that you're supported by loving friends um so that you feel that you can go as deep and as uh uh you know as high as possible and uh with those conditions and your favorite music we like to use a a kind of a spiritual uplifting like Bach and stuff like that kind of heavy for some people but I love I thought you were going to say Christian rock no no I but I like uh you know like uh we used to listen to musical offering all the time and it's so eerie but it it favored the tripping mind with all the fugues and things like that the Infiniti uh is really there in B I forgot to tweet people and tell them that we're live ah [ __ ] up start over no we don't have to start over we've been live for a while hold on live for a while with me too sorry sorry folks listening it's good so do you ever go back to Columbus Ohio uh I actually all my friends went to CCI and that's where College I was actually supposed to go to but I ended up not going um but do you ever go back do you ever visit I mean I bet you're like a superhero there now so uh well I think the uh great return home has not really uh happened so much um but I do visit my mother and uh family and things there and baby yeah well we'll see you know we're uh there's some Festival things that are happening in the region and uh this year we're going perhaps uh to another part of the world uh but then at some point I think we'll coordinate now what part of uh the Hudson Valley are you is it the Hudson Valley that you're putting this uh yes where is it that we're in the town of wener and uh whoer is a a beautiful Town that's uh right on the Hudson River and uh it's related to wener Falls and wer is the name of the native people uh who inhabited the
region uh 400 years ago and uh they were uh a wonderful uh kind of series of tribes that went all the way down wer uh WP i n g e r and um cool name that's a cool name it is it's amazing it's it's got resonances with many uh creatures and uh with a kind of uh good attitude they had a uh a uh awesome uh idea about the Hudson River uh we call it the Hudson now but it used to be uh the a Mikan uh the great flow that goes both ways and uh that makes sense it's a tidal River and uh it goes up right to our town right to around there and then it goes back uh to the ocean it's it's just amazing what kind of what kind of town is this in uh well it's uh it's been many things and uh it's a uh right now I'd say it's an evolving town and uh uh the place that we inhabit it used to be called dear Hill and dear hill was a United Church of Christ uh congregation and also an Interfaith uh kind of Camp so they had a very um transdenominational or Interfaith kind of approach to spirituality and they had it on the market for like seven years and finally when we found each other we felt like we had a lot in common that we our message was uh a an attempt at a at a universal message of spirituality and interconnectedness and using nature as a setting uh for this kind of um Soul renewing uh kind of surrounding in a creative environment so we do uh all kinds of uh creativity classes there from dancing and uh and uh movement and uh yoga and and uh meditation things like that to so how much of the place is done like the outside is the inside is done it's just the outside needs to be completed with the artwork with Enon uh the uh what we have is a uh Old Carriage House and it's been structurally reinforced and uh we've actually put quite a bit into it already in uh sealing and Shoring it up but then we have to take the roof off and we have to establish uh new steel foundations in all the corners and uh we're building the heads 16 ft away from the entry to The Brick uh building so what you'll have is a large Atrium in front of the brick building when you walk into the into entheon and with this uh there will be the reception there will be you know bathroom and Co closet and things like
that but there will also be a fountain head there uh that will Mount against the wall of this old uh Carriage House so you'll see this dramatic kind of 75 by 23t high uh wall of brick uh and this is this it right here we're looking at it right now yeah it's up here as well ah yeah put it pulled it all the way back Brian for a second the um the uh the construction looks like pretty in depth like you guys did a a lot of a lot of stuff to the place oh yeah it's been and are you living inside that as well well no we are not there's the brick Carriage House and uh so we're going to uh we've been Shoring it up uh we found a nearby um construction companies that are specialists in ornamental casting of concrete and uh so this has led to this kind of uh key to how we're going to to actually build the building so that's all going to be concrete those faces yes but it's a skin a thin skin of concrete about an inch thick and uh reinforced with steel and a glass fiber reinforced kind of concrete it's a very special uh kind of uh uh permanent uh and then it's going to be sectioned and uh like these heads there's very repetitive kinds of elements to it so they'll be made on some sort of a gigantic mold or something like that and there'll be several of first it'll be uh first it was uh I guess seen in the imagination uh thank you Transcendent uh Visionary source and then I drew it and uh then I showed it to Ryan toddle who's an amazing uh digital sculptor and a Visionary artist and he works at Disney actually during the day and uh so he took this uh into three dimensions and and uh made the actual 3D model that's sized uh perfectly to the building so this will be printed out in sections and uh we'll have a basically a foam print out that then uh will be corrected and things like that and then a mold will be taken from that then uh in that mold we shoot uh this concrete uh thin uh kind of inch thick stuff it's got pins on the back that attach to a steel Armature and that Armature attaches to the building wow it's it's it's very exciting because it's a it's a real an actual thing it's incredibly ambitious and well you know look people always did sacred buildings you know and uh it's up to you don't have to justify it to me I think it's
awesome I'm just I mean you're like hey they've always done this well I mean is tiny tiny little expression compared to magnificent temples that are all over the world and things you know I mean they're Grand and well there's no Pope behind you with horse carriages filled with gold to pay for the construction there's people who are pledging 10 bucks and 30 bucks and I tell them that they get something from that you have a bunch of different tiers set up of different things you get whether it's uh artwork or there's there's I think there's how many different levels do you have of uh possibilities they can oh we have so many we've got like uh even original artwork um that uh has never been offered before and stuff so uh there's a a a PDF with all kinds of uh artworks and things like that and uh sketches and uh there's these uh uh these are worth two admission for two to Enon that's your coin your own money man what are you doing you're going too far take it I need you to take it down and Notch whatever you do nobody has guns okay that's when they come no guns ever right you should really make that super strict yeah cuz you're going to have a bunch of loons and go you know what I love I love you I love psychedelics but I also love the Second Amendment we're here to rock anybody that comes and takes our compound well we we try to have uh you know intelligent security that that uh that just so that things uh always stay cool you know what it would be though it would be the cop that pretended to be one of you guys that would freak out po gun so the real cops can come in and lock you guys down because you're violent you had guns that'd be what I would do if I was a cops I was trying to shut you hippies down well we actually have made friends with the uh local uh police because uh we're grateful that's for their service and uh beautiful thing to say too I I agree with that as well I get [ __ ] about that online cuz I always tell people that I like cops but I think it's important to have police off we do we we absolutely uh depend on them as a community and there's a lot of good ones you know the people don't want to address that there's a lot of cops out there that are nice despite all the [ __ ] they see every day I've we have uh friends who are sort of high up in that
in the local region and and they're just some of the nicest people and most compassionate actually because they're they go to people who are in trouble mostly and you know they're absolutely you're bad cops that's no doubt about it either sure you know no one's uh making up for that but just saying there's it's there's a need for it and a lot of them are good and if you're in a community that's accepting you guys and and did you have a little weird thing where they didn't want you guys to be non- taxed well we're still working that out you know the they don't want accept you as a regular religion well it's um the church status is a uh you see we're building Sacred Space right we hold uh full moon ceremonies every month we hold art Church uh that sounds awesome I wish I was your neighbor it's and we have neighbors who love to come over and they love to uh participate and we have people from all over the world who come and also this is before entheon really is there right you know so there's lot of four years we've been uh waiting and and so now we've got a loan from A bank that is uh uh helping us out and we have the kickstarters coming you know it's we have still have like nine days or something like that well we'll try to pump it up for you what kind of town is this is this like a town that accepts hippies are they they cons there's I'd say there's a healthy mix and what I find so uh uh really astonishing is the religious diversity uh there's a seik uh um Temple I believe there's Hindu temples there's a Tibetan Buddhist stupa there's town all in the town how many people are in this town just you know it's not it's not a large amount okay is it one of those vortexes they're just draws like The Comedy Store I think it's a little bit of a Vortex of beauty and uh you know according to our Native American Scholar uh Evan Pritchard he said that the uh our land may have been held Sacred by the whoer people as well so it's always been kind of in this um you know sacred tradition and it was a church before you and that's fascinating I always wondered what where they how you know how you would pick a site for something like this you know I think it's really cool that you're doing it I think it's really fun it's exciting I know you have good intentions so it's uh
yeah we're hopeful and uh these uh we met some of the neighbors and we tried to uh be considerate now about sound and things like that and uh so it's how close are you to the neighbors you have 40 acres yes um what a sounds you guys making you freaks Mo what are you doing imagine if Alex Gray was actually just a gun nut he's out there shooting this is all an act I I love that one of your things it's music you know like uh Sacred Music we had a a recent outdoor uh concert but there was also a fireworks display by the city that by the town that night and oh so it was perfect yeah what we say one of your things on your kickstarters awesome uh there's only five left though but for $1,500 you get a handdrawn portrait of you or your beloved one that's that's how awesome is that that's amazing I almost want to do that that's amazing wow that's so cool yeah it's a good Kickstarter man uh you you'll get some people definitely from this show and they get to it one more time I feel like we're PBS so I'm going just say this one more time to be like you know that those gross [ __ ] PBS shows where every 15 minutes they would chime in and try to get you to donate like why don't you guys just get some commercials so you don't have to do this this is disgusting stop interrupting the conversation you freaks um so do you feel like you're already starting to uh have a gravity in this town it's turn people are already starting to be drawn towards this this thing that you're creating and putting together with all these ceremonies and well we did have a a recent event uh this past week and uh is that what the cops called it well there was a recent event at the uh Enon this uh this new religion just moved in recent of that's how they would describe a bunch of arrests well here in La we actually had uh a uh a safe event uh uh where uh a played and Ken Jordan from Crystal Method and uh OT he's uh an amazing I kind of named after Jonathan a but uh a in terms of I'm not familiar who's that who's Jonathan a Jonathan a is a translator of Albert Hoffman's and uh also was one of the people who uh came up with the term and Theo Jen oh okay with Dr Hoffman a translator scientific translator an author you said he was a translator of Hoffman's yes what what do you mean by a translator
well when uh Pro my problem child uh wanted to come out in English uh you uh Albert Hoffman wanted someone who was responsible to his word and to his meaning oh I see would translate his words I'm so ignorant I wasn't aware that Albert hoffin didn't speak English yeah no he was Swiss I figured if he's figuring out how to make [ __ ] he's got to be American I mean you know what I'm saying he spoke pretty good English but not to uh translate the book wow that's fascinating stuff man yeah so a uh played and uh Jonathan singer who's a uh I call him a light Slinger and uh VJ extraordinaire had made a a print out of the entheon um kind of alter DJ booth or U I guess electronic musician station and uh so uh these wonderful musicians played uh behind something a console that looked a lot like the anthon uh thing so it printed it out and uh Ryan had made this model for the booth and it was like a proof of concept of this is how we're going to print out the building right so it looks really cool wow you're you're doing Raves you got DJs up there this is the best religion of all time oh ecstatic to yeah that's oh yeah I get it Visionary yeah that's that's a beautiful thing man and you're you know you're going to have a positive effect on a lot of people who come through those doors that's that's everything you would ever want out of a religion a center where people can meet a community and the ability to push something positive out those doors you know it's it's a beautiful thing man really is well it's really about inspiring the creative spirit in in everybody you know and uh so that's ultimately why it's uh there and we also see that um in a dozen years or uh or 2020 uh if possible uh if we're able to uh sort of pay back some of our loans and various things uh over the uh over time we look to uh build the actual Chapel of sacred mirrors in the meadow if possible and uh that uh if we're able to do that that we would move our art out of the U anthon and have it as a sanctuary for Visionary art from artists from around the world um many of whom have already come and done presentations there and actually some of them are in the collection already and stuff so it will be a an active center for the promotion of this um kind of new
um art movement I'd say um that is worldwide and really is a product of this uh of seeing into these uh New Dimensions I think you need your own podcast first of all absolutely why not a great way to reach people super easy to do set it up go to libson you know get an account not hard really easy to do and you could give people just weekly updates on where everything stands and I'm sure a lot of people would get into that and then you know and you could also have your thoughts on current events or your thoughts on you know whatever anything you know you don't it don't have to be married to any particular amount of time do it for 10 minutes if you like do a quick one just to keep everybody posted or do three hours do whatever the hell you want but but having something like that when you're doing something like this which is very you're you're you're you're creating this Center for Community you're creating this Center for sort of um the the distribution of psychedelic ideas you know and in doing something like that and creating a a that kind of a community and you mean you're really like putting a you're putting something out there into the world you're you're you're you're setting forth a beacon you know you're like you're there's going to be so many people that are influenced by that there's so many people that look at that and go who what is he doing what's going on over there and they've got what they go full moons what is the big deal about full moons what are these people doing wow that's pretty what is this [ __ ] building and then they get sucked out do you know you're doing that are you going to be comfortable as a cult leader or how's that that's uh it's tough I think that it's very tricky it's about uh as I said holding up a sacred mirror for people and uh if there's an element of inspiration in the uh uh for their own uh creative lives whatever it is is then we can see that that's a spirituality that works for you you know because you have a creative life that has meaning for you you know so you're seeking to inspire other people to be more creative as well you're seeking to start the spark it's about transformation uh of the uh Consciousness so that we can uh regard nature as a sacred Ally that we need to
learn from and to stop abusing and that uh we can uh save what we can of the life web and uh have a Humanity that lives for hundreds of thousands of years instead of snuffs itself out in a stupid uh uh I oops I wrecked the planet you know you know like I'm just a teenager you know what do you expect uh but you know like can we grow up can we mature as a species it's I think think it's the most exciting and amazing uh time cuz it's like our Kickstarter I have a a kind of a wow boy there's some gravity in the uh timeline you know element uh and uh of course we haven't got a United world uh that that where we say collectively oh you know what uh that is too much carbon uh let's do the solar like really like hard you know and and and uh and so we can uh start to turn it around you know we're not we're not there yet but people in general I think feel that you know and they start to feel like the oh wow how can we turn it around and uh so that's why I think that uh people like Paul stamitz and other uh Visionary uh thinkers who understand more about the uh intricacies and intelligence of uh say the fungus yeah um that uh uh we have a lot to be hopeful about and uh if we put to use the technology and the intelligence uh that is already available you need to start a farm too you need to grow your own food out there exactly why not you got 40 acres right it's a great area I'm sure it gets a lot of rain well we're right next door to uh great field and uh perhaps an organic farm coming in so right now we're focusing on the temple but we all those things are part of the uh I think overall permaculture plan we're still mapping the land to see uh you know permac culturally what would make sense to develop that's going to be really fascinating when it's done man I really can't wait and um I'm really excited about it but just goes to show you the the negative thinking that that some people just can't escape some people just can't help being negative no matter what no matter how positive someone else's message is some people can't help being negative somebody talked about your Enon Enon that's what weon Enon they said it was a shrine to Your Ego because you're creating a big piece of art big piece of beautiful art that that's somehow a shrine to Your Ego
isn't that a strange thing that people will accept art but if that art becomes a building then it's then something's ego about it like it can be the most beautiful thing as long as it's a painting or sculpture but when you make a house out of it then it's a shrine you know it's a shrine to Your Ego like it can't just be a beautiful piece of art a sculpture why does someone have to hate like that that's that's got to be the way you were raised that's got to be the people that you around there's no other way that kind of douchy thinking should be acceptable hey look uh everybody's entitled to their reaction and I think that uh that's inevitable that yeah but everybody's also entitled to be mocked for their reaction that's an important part of culture people need to feel the sting of other people going [ __ ] shut up what are you talking about the guy's making a beautiful building what do you what's your problem Shrine to his ego negative a lot of people need hugs that's what it is a lot of people didn't get them a lot of people need them now well the the very idea is the idea that there is uh basically one one face of God and it's all of us and and so uh there's a there's a multiple and then there's a one on the top of the roof so you got the one and the many and the many in the one and through Consciousness Evolution you can uh reach uh both I like I like that you say that and it doesn't sound goofy at all do you know what I mean like the facts you know yes you're sincere well but it's one of those Concepts where you know you start talking about the God is the one and the one is the Lord and you know and people go what is this crazy [ __ ] going on about your well but but gez you know okay you take it from a scientific perspective you know most are still on the Big Bang you know that 13.7 billion years ago there was nothing and then Kabam 13.7 billion years ago were talking about it right and and so that was a lot of evolution that's a lot of development over a long period of time and and uh that's inherently the creative Spirit uh brought us here and uh you know Consciousness itself is is a miracle that we could understand each other it's fascinating Beyond
fascinating it is I love that you're optimistic too like you you have hope for the human race like I think there's no reason to be anything but because despite all the crazy [ __ ] that's in the world a million nuclear weapons that could destroy every single thing we haven't done it yet I mean it's kind of amazing it's kind of amazing that we've done as little pollution as we actually have I mean that's really quite shocking that we actually toned it down a little bit Los Angeles was a little bit of like hey hey everybody settled down you know like apparently the the pollution was much worse in Los Angeles like in the in the 60s in the 70s they said it was horrible because they had those lead cars the gas was totally different and they cleaned that up a lot I mean still looks like [ __ ] it's still crazy Brown air but it's better Brown air Alex Gray took it it is it's that's a that's a symbol uh or a message of evolution a little bit of it yeah a little bit and the the Consciousness that was born during the 60s uh the Civil Rights uh era the uh feminism really came on strong the even Eco Consciousness all of these uh uh elements uh and uh gay rights uh the the equality uh element started to come to the surface so a sense of conscience about uh accepting more diversity and uh living up to our uh idea about we the people you know and who are all the people people and I think that the reinfrank of uh people like just by saying okay gay marriages that's okay you know so then other nations say okay that's okay you know so suddenly a stigma uh and a Prohibition on a group of people has been lifted and they're reinfrank into uh the society at no harm uh to the society even benefit to it likewise the Cannabis user eventually I believe should be uh reintegrated into uh society and the world this will show also an evolutionary step um you know I because uh this is the uh the recognition of the Divinity of nature I I think there's every reason to be optimistic and although there are some really bad things about the world today Financial system is crazy and corrupt and it's too easy to manipulate and everybody body knows it's rigged and we still have to use it and it's still the thing that pays off lobbyists and
moves decisions that favor corporations instead of the general public we we still know that there's there's a lot wrong with the world but we're learning more about humans about Behavior about just information itself about technology about our our place in the universe we're learning more about the cosmos every day there's like some new discovery and new thing and new this and new that and it's just coming at us like like a wave wave after wave of information I don't think it's possible to avoid all that without some gigantic monstrous catastrophe I think if you just look at the if you were looking at a graph and you look at the head space of the American person the average American person from 1960 and look at the heads space in 2013 you're dealing with a completely different educated individual you're dealing with a a level of understanding about the way the world works that's very different from at any other time because almost any question that you've ever had could be answered on your phone within a matter of seconds and although that seems so normal that changed the whole world and that's going on right now exactly it's I think it's snuck up on us so fast we just get so used to watching movies on our phone that we don't even think it's weird that it's just coming through the air into this little thin wafer thing that's made out of glass and metal in your pocket that you get to watch movies flying through the air and you don't even think about it just seems so normal to you and it's all psychedelic it's very much so and that's that's what uh uh I guess um Steve Jobs had to be interviewed by the Department of Defense and he had to defend his uh taking of psychedelics and he said it's uh yeah in order to get the highest clearance uh and things so as a part of his interview he uh said that he still believed that it was uh one of the most important events in his life and uh that uh his psychedelic experiences and uh many of the people that uh they worked with of course uh they wondered how many times they had tripped and things and how far out are you you know and uh was uh part of the uh openness to uh new ways of thinking that uh it allowed just as you were saying that uh you after a psychedelic experience you have this folder that's called my old [ __ ] and
then you have this possibility wide open in front of you why my goodness a full new a new possibility there uh you can jump back in the bag uh that you already know or you can forge ahead into a new uh territory and so that's the evolutionary Edge and you're always pushing it and artists and creative people are always pushing it and that's why I say everybody's kind of pushing that edge in some way and and is uh inherently that uh awareness yeah I I I think it's it's it's unavoidable and it's almost that uh biologically we can't keep up with all the technological Evolution although it's not the correct term to use technological Evolution they want to use it biologically but the just that alone it's almost like our access to information is too great for our our feeble Minds to process we're still on some you know old school Pentium Celeron remember those cerons weren't quite as good as a Pentium do yeah I mean we're like on an old machine our machine sucks we have dunbar's number we can't remember more than 150 people we [ __ ] up you can't remember phone numbers anymore because you don't have to remember them because they're on your phone you know so in that sense it's like we're almost becoming mush it's almost like what the the technology is doing is setting us up it's getting us to a point where it's just overwhelming us with data that we can't help I know you're having a problem okay I'm going to help you out we're going to give you a chip we're going to put this chip in your brain and once you do boom I mean the government knows where you are at all times but you have instant 12 IQ you're going to be able to see things you never saw before memorize things fairly quickly it's a total brain upgrade it's a little chip GPS in there and there's a kill switch send a [ __ ] electrocution bolt into your brain If you say anything bad about the government there's there's some movies uh being sort of made with that hypothesis I I think and the I always imagine the in uh you know the uh uh interconnection uh of everyone uh uh being the ability to control the net and the vision do you um think at all about uh the technological singularity do you follow curtz while and all that Singularity
stuff I'm fting stuff it is fascinating we have uh friends uh Martin uh and uh uh beina uh Roth blat and uh Martin uh and uh beina have been working on a uh a robotic fact simile of beina and um I'm interviewing her are you yeah oh that's wonderful yeah I'm interviewing her for my Sci-Fi show fabulous yeah so she got an art her lover recreated exactly yeah fascinating yeah they're great they're wonderful people and uh we love them and uh they're married yeah have four children yes and yeah that's that's amazing an artificial person as close to it as what we have right now right well and and uh so I mean they where the rubber meets the road they're really trying to Pro program the robotics so that we can have a a closer fact assem and of course you know Runner style well the thing that that uh I found fascinating uh cuz I I was very resistant to the whole uh idea and falling in love with the robot idea well just the idea that the uh that the um that there will be a time when you will when this will be a problem you know that uh that you can not distinguish between a human uh being and a and a robot that's coming don't you think I'm not sure perhaps you know I'm naive to think that it isn't but I I but I have this feeling just like uh people have a a gar or a you know know each who's Jewish and who's not and things like that you know that that having a uh that's pretty subtle and intangible things you know um to say that all body armor and uh you know like uh uh you know fact of your mechanical and inability uh you know to uh generate a subtle field even perhaps that's uh a heartbeat and uh things I these things are probably part of our unconscious awareness of uh a human being so uh I'll see uh you know as this as it develops you know artificial intelligence and uh Robotics and things I'm sure they'll part of it will evolve toward that I I really feel like we're not giving technology the Creditor deserves in that I think it might be alive and I know that sounds completely ridiculous because we we're so sure that life is like us we're so sure that life has cells and it has blood and you know it either consumes oxygen or it could be plant-based life but we know how what life is and that's not life no that's just something we created but no cuz
eventually when you turn it on if it eventually gets to the point where it could reproduce on its own and think for itself and defends itself or knows how to stay alive or has instincts or knows how to repair itself then what exactly is that and how come it's not it's not life why because it doesn't have what doesn't have skin is it not life if if it's reproducing and thinking and altering its environment and then moving forward and creating new energy sources and figuring out how to better use resources if it becomes intelligent life and some crazy [ __ ] says you know and programs in hey defend yourself and reproduce as soon as you can oh you're doomed the human race is done they're going to for sure that's a life form that's going to be a life form and you're it's going to get to the point if this woman is recreating her wife it's going to get to a point where that's going to be indistinguishable there's going to be an artificial you there it might even be an artificial you that's exactly you it's your Consciousness in another body you might be able to live several lives at once just in case you [ __ ] one of them up you got a bunch of other good lives going on simultaneously well if you do the right uh Tibetan Buddhist practices I think you can do that anyway you think so uh yeah but uh the uh the other uh element of the virtual uh Heaven that I love that uh Martine and Bina have uh talked about in the uh terasem uh movement that they've been uh uh putting forward is that uh we can uh program as much of the information about our lives and about um you know by filling out basically an an elaborate questionnaire and this also records uh our voice telling stories and things like that and the way that we inflect and uh things so these modulations and things become part of uh what could be a virtual being it doesn't have to be a robot it can be um for the virtual Heaven a just a fact simile a 3D model that's based on the um sort of uh 3D um mapping of the head and uh maybe the the chest or something like that so you have a a sense of the person and you might ask uh virtual grandma or Grandpa uh who passed on several decades ago but the
great grandkids can now access them via this virtual Grandma uh that can say yes when I was growing up blah blah blah you know and share a story or something now what's wrong with that what's wrong with that there's something crazy about turning grandma on hey Grandma how's the great be on oh so was just knitting yes there's something [ __ ] creepy about that man I mean maybe we need to let things go maybe we need to realize that you know Grandma the past and whatever great memories we had of her so are you going to close her Facebook account you imagine if Grandma's Facebook account Becomes Her wow figure talking about that's nuts God damn it but it's kind of calm right I mean [ __ ] saw Facebook a thousand years ago you know it seems to me that a Blade Runner type scenario is inevitable though where they have a life that is artificial but acts so much like us that it itself doesn't even know it's artificial because if you're going to program a a robot correctly to be an artificial person that acts like a person you don't tell them when it's artificial you want them thinking they're real right of course like it would be the Blade Runner scenario yeah that was a goddamn brilliant movie it was it was so amazing but I you know what it might mirror is this whole thing about the Neanderthal and the and our early um relationship like as species we you know for thousands and thousands of years cohabited uh the same areas and what kind of uh Neanderthal genocide happened there you know like what what was the shadow of our species you know built on this uh relationship you think they just naturally d off oh no I think we definitely killed them have you ever SE the people there's a one guy it's a really SC sketchy Theory but uh he he painted neander tal as like a gorilla faed predator and uh he tried to uh say that neander probably hunted man and that's why we drove it to Extinction and that we based our image of what neander looked like based on on human skin but we don't really have any skin from the ANS we know that they were far stronger than people and we know that they had a much thicker bone structure they were smaller they' be like 5T tall but they would weigh 200 lb they were really really incredibly strong yeah well they were more built like rangang yeah more
like a a lower primate than like a human or a homo Sapient and so this guy see if you can pull that up Brian it was pretty trippy it's mostly [ __ ] but it's kind of fun [ __ ] this guy um [ __ ] what would you say um neander tall Predator yeah see if you find that and he had like a whole video where they they mapped out uh in his opinion what it would look like in and 3D imagery and so we had this really scary looking chimpanzee thing with big giant eyes we don't have any eye tissue from the ANS either and they have a much larger eyeball than humans yeah they're body they're just they're built fairly differently so this guy drew them up like crazy gorilla monsters it's really I mean I don't think it's right but it's uh it's kind of cool to look at and it's interesting just to conceive of a yeah there it is wow that's how he drew it he drew it like they might have been hairy and they might have been like but they were really muscular and he made them look more chimpanzee like than uh than humanlike yeah yeah huh yeah he did a whole documentary on it I think but uh it's probably [ __ ] well you know you could genetically imagine your yourself into a Sasquatch uh I was going to ask you about that I've been hunting for Sasquatch not hunting like trying to hurt him hunting like look I should say searching for Sasquatch I've been doing this TV show we went up to Washington State and uh we stayed in the the woods out near Mount reineer and uh it's like tropical rain I mean not tropical a rainforest up there a real rainforest like if you've never been up there you have no idea what that's like it's the weirdest environment ever you you park your car you take a walk you go 100 yards into the woods and you might as well be on another planet you're you're you literally enter into a different dimension there's the dimension of of there's a dimension of Highways and how is and that's all out there but once you go into a rainforest like you just you go a little bit in and then you're engulfed by this new reality and this reality is you see an elk running past you and they disappear in the trees cuz everything's so thick and and people start to see Bigfoot you know they start seeing anything man you don't know what the [ __ ] is out there you think
Bigfoot's Preposterous until you go to a rainforest like the Pacific Northwest and you're walking around you're like [ __ ] maybe manbe said like what you know but if you look at the earliest um kind of human animal hybrid cave art yeah you have something that looks oddly like a Sasquatch type uh uh thing you know because it's a it's just a marriage of the Stag and the human and so it's got characteristics of the animal and the human together they did a lot of that stuff really early on yes well look at all the Egyptian art you know it's what do you think that is the fusion of the creature the animal the theion morph uh uh it's called theion morph that's a term for it isn't that what those furries call themselves too they call themselves thean H yes I think so I think that that's uh probably a relationship not that there's anything wrong with being a furry much love to my mascot friends right here if you I accidentally stumbled into a Furry Convention once in Pittsburgh it was you know what it's going to sound stupid but I thought it was beautiful I thought it was beautiful that these people found a place where they could all get together and do this they obviously they like doing it they like doing it and where you know if you do that in your neighborhood people going what the [ __ ] are you doing man why are you trust up like a giant chipmunk but for whatever reason I don't know why they like doing it but it doesn't seem like they're hurting anybody and we were walking they seem so happy we're walking down the street and all these these furry dudes and and gals were laughing and talking together all with their crazy costumes on nobody took their [ __ ] off and I was like this is the weirdest thing ever but it looks so fun it's embodying a kind of Dr Seuss like uh uh zany uh truth about uh the world of creatures that we're uh part of and it's acknowledging that we're part of a a uh almost uh interdimensional um and web of creatures and I think that the early stuff the uh Egyptian and all all the cave art and things like that really did did come out of a a place of higher awareness that that was the kind of uh nature mysticism well like a lot of psychedelic psychedelic drugs have animal um ideas
in embedded in them and um absolutely especially with DMT or iasa there's the Jaguars or leopards Jag right Jaguars and snakes and and those sort of things I mean it only kind of Common Place absolutely maybe and there could have been many different psychedelic compounds we don't even know about anymore that these people had found and that that put him them together with these these ideas and of combining animals and human into one form and yes yes well it's a an an easy transfer and the thing that I found refreshing in the Egyptian uh temples and things was uh how easy it was to transpose a head and uh stuff of one creature and another onto a human body and how uh they were considered the gods now if your job is to uh sacralize uh the nature field uh to give a sense of uh the place that we live in is a is a gift of the of a Divine Creator and there are uh then if your Gods actually are different animals or they have animal characteristics you're more apt to treat the animal with some respect or as being an aspect of that Divinity and so the uh the translation of the uh the archetypal symbol of a particular animal spirit and a Divine a human uh form is to uh acknowledge our Oneness with that kind of uh the field of of the animal spirits and it's a very shamanic uh kind of thing to do and it and it was part of many of the uh like the Mesopotamian Babylonian Assyrian Egyptian uh even the Greeks sphinxes and things like that there's a there's this uh Fusion from the very earliest cave art all the way through the great uh religious kinds of of things angels have wings they're animal and human hybd that's a really good point that I never even thought of until just now they it's still part of the public imagination you know and uh we that's crazy angels are part bird I just thought they were people with wings but no obviously not if they had a bird's head then you'd be like they part bird but as long as they have a human's head you're like it's not even a bird man it's an angel yeah of course and we accept it so much because we uh the the idea of there being a higher world that we Ascend to symbolically it's so transparent that we don't even notice it it's just like there yeah and uh I I think that that archetype is part of uh
the human psyche and you can find it in each you know sacred path the the uh the bridging of the the Realms that's what Hermes was Hermes Tris magistus you know the ult uh uh kind of um Foundation how about Ganesha yeah you know there so many versions of the the combining of a human and an animal and sacred religious uh artwork it's really fascinating like the Hindu stuff where was a man with a a lion's head and people like Octopus arms six arms yeah yeah yeah oh a bunch of people trying to make sense of what the they're experiencing Soma or whatever it is exactly what do you think Som was uh well it's very interesting uh you know I think Steve thinks it's cannabis most people are like it's a sleeping pill dummy what are you talking about they don't know like s the sleeping pill is they [ __ ] up they should have never named it s s is like it's it's it's a sacred psychedelic drug from was it was it the rig Veda uh 6,000 years ago the earliest uh human um you know religious text is the songs uh in the rigveda the Hindu uh text and some assh came and turned that into a sleeping pill pharmaceutical sleeping pill what a bunch of dicks well there you go I mean that's like really rude you know that's like Catholics would never take that if you had a sleeping pill that was called the sacrament the Jesus Sacrament they'd be like hey [ __ ] you can't call it that but people are like s yeah that's in another country and we're America and we're just going to call it s because we like the name s it is okay s yeah but the original s was supposed to be an amazing psychedelic right exactly and it put uh the uh person who emed it into a state of connectedness with the Divine and uh s was also this it was was recognized as the source of many things including like clothing and stuff like that but as an artist why do you think that you were the first person to really encapsulate The tryptamine Experience cuz all these other people that didn't had these amazing works of art the only people that came close to capturing the tryptamine experience to me were the ancient Egyptians there's a lot of ancient Egyptian stuff like just Tuton Common's headdress and the gold the gold that's very tryptamine like you know and it's one of the only things in um in historical art to me that Rings like
Rings trippy you know there's something about it like you like you can almost like hear music like some kind of tryptamine music when you're watching these hieroglyphs and you're seeing these images you're like the symbols like even if you don't understand what they mean when you're looking at these symbols run together your mind starts to try to form patterns and you start to try to think think the way these people were thinking and see these incredibly complex geometric shapes that they had turned into buildings buildings like the temple in man this gigantic building where each segment represents different shakras and different energy points in the human body there's texts around each one explaining this part of the human body like it's it's [ __ ] insane yes we want to bring that uh idea to the land of KM and uh have been uh you know the idea uh of the uh the neru the family of Gods uh in Egypt is uh really made a strong um what is that uh imprint on me when we went over there Allison and I have been back a couple of times and what is it called against uh the Naru is the family of gods that uh kind of opened up out of n uh the night sky who had an affair with GB the uh Earth father so the night sky mother uh held five uh children in her womb and had to find a special time uh to uh release them but the one uh who uh was in there with his brothers and sisters decided he didn't want to stick around he was the dark kind of Lord and his name was set and he cut his way out of his mother and uh out tumbled the rest of the brothers and sisters including uh tho and Isis and oseris and uh nepes his sister so uh basically Isis and oseris got together and they were the uh you know football hero and the cheerleader uh you know match made in heaven and all that and they were uh they were uh you know just like uh celebrated and stuff and set was was kind of uh Barren you know and and he was kind of uh you know just probably a little jealous of his brother maybe and uh nepes uh wanted a child and uh so anyway she uh fooled uh Osirus into uh an affair uh perhaps a new Anubis uh the dog-headed uh IM Balmer uh of the nether worlds where was the result of that well of course SE was extremely Disturbed and
uh decided that he was going to find a way to kill Osirus which eventually happened and he cut him up and uh threw him all over uh the Nile and so Isis was extremely distraught and uh she went around uh finding uh or remembering parts of the dismembered God and uh each place where she found a a hand hand or a a foot or something like that a temple was built and so you would you would go down the Nile uh and uh remember the God and that's that's the idea is just uh the now I think that of course it's the goddess that's been lost that's been uh dismembered the the mother earth and uh so the idea is to uh we have different stations on the land where there will be a foot there will be a hand and different things like that they'll represent different elements of of the dismembered uh mother wow and so we go around to remember uh the uh the mother and to reew ourselves and to renew nature trying to wrap your your mind around Egyptian mythology and what they were what they meant by that and the origin of that and how it led them to the the society that was able to create those insane structures they're amazing I haven't been I have the only really crazy place I've been to is chichin went to chichin once and that was one of those things where you're walking around going how did they what are they doing how did they do this why did they do this yeah this is crazy and no one lived here anymore they just all moved out they made this and then they left somebody left behind this yeah and you and people return there you return there we return there nobody Liv there no it be funny if some dude said this is my house now put a door in one of the temples sometimes there are caretakers uh to for these sacred sites and uh so you heard happen the right they just mowed down one of the uh ancient Mayan temples or pyramids that was there it's like a really really old structure oh I didn't do that they clouded down because it was on private land just to use it for Limestone good c yeah people are freaking out like what the [ __ ] did you do well you know there's there's uh different feelings in the different societies about these things you know the Taliban just destroyed a huge uh uh Buddhist uh sculpture which was a a Heritage type site that that had been there for
thousands of years probably the CIA pretended to be the Taliban what they did these [ __ ] I didn't say that out yeah I didn't mean it CIA back off well I don't know at least that was the story that got out and it and it was sad but it was it's most likely true I mean religious ideologies what gets people to do almost every really [ __ ] crazy thing it's either money or religious ideology you know or ideology in general negative ideology like we were talking about the Boston bombings we were like you can't do that without ideology like no one is able to do something like that without ideology because you have to have something that allows you to think that that's the correct thing to do an ideology of hate yeah yeah and mean not not all ideologies are bad but you you don't you don't get really insane acts of faith like that without an ideology right and insane acts of terrorism either it's uh both things come from you know it's not always bad but It's Tricky It's Tricky when you you just automatically subscribe to the the patterns that are in front of you we like to be we like to be in P it's like getting to that my old [ __ ] thing on the desktop we felt really comfortable at going down already tread paths yes it's really true and it's sad uh that the uh the the more widespread understanding of jihad as a holy war um within the Muslim Community is that it's something that the ego wages um you know uh we we engage with our ego basically you know that somehow the soul and the ego is always in a kind of a holy war uh with each other that uh that we desire the one true uh spirit to win out and to uh to have love save the day and all these things to to be a hero in life and uh this is a uh I think part of why we're called to uh called to life well the the original term was supposed to be like a war against your own vices right personal vices yes it was somehow become a better person yeah and and it's a struggle to become a better person in the same way that uh Israel means uh God wrestler you know we're we're struggling with this higher nature and uh without engaging it somehow without struggling with it and to uh be uh activated in our uh creative pursuit of it um it's not it's not real or tangible for us it has
to become a real uh practice that's why I like any kind of art or creativity or any any form of expression uh cuz uh that's what we're made of we're made of Creative Energy yeah that's what we're here for we you know what did uh was it um Marshall mclen said that human beings are the sex organs of the machine world that's what we're doing we're just uh we're just creating little computer babies that's how computers get made people create them that's true that's true it's a new form of intelligence that we're living amongst are you going to download your Consciousness into a computer when the time comes we'll have to see what's available you know uh I I loved Martin's uh response cuz I was saying well hey you know it's I don't know about a soul and a robot and stuff like that but she was saying like well who's to say that a soul if there were a disembodied Spirit wouldn't like hanging around a a robot of itself uh for a while or who's to say you're not going to create a zombie in the next Dimension cu the person is going to be born without a soul cuz you put it in somebody's [ __ ] computer and so then all of a sudden the next Dimension is like the dawn of dead you got a bunch of zombies running around that could happen damn it maybe that's the zombie apocalypse apocalypse yeah when we're seeing The Walking Dead and this sort of thing this zombie theme keeps returning over and over and over again that's a warning telling us not to download our Consciousness into computers we already have you know that's that's what Facebook is that's my space right yeah yeah or temp or Instagram or all Twitter all these things are a virtual existence and uh you know Wiki and various things like this they they give people maybe a sense of uh solidity you know that's why it's weird to go to someone's twitter page after they're dead have you ever done that before no Facebook page I have a friend who really great guy who uh expired and every now and then I go to his Facebook page I read his posts and yes and go you know I keep reading his post I'm still getting a little bit of him you know you watch a video of him you're getting a little bit of him you
know it's not new stuff I listened to Ray man Eric today he died today yeah but I listened to him he was like 72 right 72 yeah isn't that crazy that the doors he was in the doors and he's 72 it's like wait a minute the doors what's going on how old are we getting Jesus well there's something Timeless within that maybe he downloaded himself into a computer right before he kicked Ked off I think into all of our Consciousness and uh and the computers are just the uh the external storage devices what's really the cool thing is that we're connected with all of it just Consciousness wise what do you think the next stage of Consciousness is going to be do you think it's going to be some sort of a an ability to read each other's minds to integrate with each other to exchange information freely through the air like a Wi-Fi signal what do you think it's going to be I that all that it's coming right can't stop it I I think that it's a an inevitable um evolutionary development however uh some of it's going to take training and some of it's going to take an orientation uh toward it and an opening up uh the ideas of a uh Clairvoyance and uh extrasensory perception and things like that uh can uh be trained uh in some uh to be enhanced I have a completely uneducated faith in the fact that people far smarter than me are going to continue to do awesome work I'm I'm convinced that they're going to continue to come out of school and figure new things out even though I am not placing I'm I'm like wow we're really coming up with some really fast computers I'm not coming up with [ __ ] but somewhere some I I'm convinced they're going to continue to do awesome stuff so whoever you are out there keep it up congratulations and thanks indeed thank you so much well thank you Alex Gray and uh please go to alexg gray.com G y.com and um and please uh participate in the kickstarter it's your chance to be a part of something really cool like a beautiful building that's going to have a beautiful cause it's going to have a beautiful movement behind it and you're already doing amazing things and I swear to God if I lived up there I'd be visiting all the time man maybe when this [ __ ] hitss the fan I'll move to the Hudson Valley it's cool up there right
yeah absolutely it's coold in the winter though no yeah if you ever make it Northeast we'd love to how far is it from New York City it's a car drive about hour and a half oh that's nothing oh that's great it's also Metro North you can take the uh from Grand Central you can walk from the station there I would love to come check it out and I I absolutely want to come once it's all done just to see how crazy it's going to be maybe you can help us kick it off or yeah for sure yeah let's let's do some sort of or something yeah but all you crazy hippies out there keep it together don't get too nutty at this party you know Alex CR took ass it changed him so I'm going to take it all no not at the parties find a nice peaceful place find a nice spot in the woods find nice spot in the woods so it's alexg gray.com is there any and um on Twitter your Twitter is uh Alex Gray cosm cm and so please follow him on Twitter Alex great cosm right now you got 22,000 511 let's see if we can boost that [ __ ] up to 22,600 I'm PBS again I went PBS again on I apologize ladies and Gentlemen please but to support this it's an awesome cause if you got the cash if you don't you know don't do it um thank you everybody uh for tuning in we really appreciate it um thanks everybody uh who's been uh coming out to these shows and all the cool people that I met when I was looking for bigfoot had a great [ __ ] time um we'll be back on Thursday with uh the great Graham Hancock he'll be joining us um thanks to Ting for sponsoring our podcast go to rogan.com and save 25 bucks you freak um thanks to uh Squarespace squarespace.com Joo and if you want to use it use the offer code joe5 uh thanks also to on it.com go to o nnit t use the code name Rog and save some money God damn I got to record that [ __ ] cuz it sounds so repetitive I'm broken I can't say it anymore all right we love you guys and we'll see you on Thursday thank you very much byebye [Music] [Music]