Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3q7IpptOUo
Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day how are you sir I'm good nice to see nice to meet you I really enjoyed you on Tucker Carlson show shout out to Tucker uh it was a very eye-opening podcast and you know uh whenever someone is uh convicted of you know any any political figure any person of power that's uh convicted of corruption you automatically assume that they're guilty and after listening to you on Tucker show I was like oh Jesus like it was such an eye-opening podcast and such a disappointing one too it was so disturbing to hear your version of the story which was so different than the version that was you know put out on the media and it was just oh corrupt politician goes to jail he went to jail he must be guilty MH and then you hear your take on like oh God it's very disturbing and uh I just wanted to show you this just before we get rolling Biden just released a bunch of people multiple Chinese spies and an individual convicted of possessing child pornography I think he's he's released how many people has he uh pardoned today saw number 1500 he's going ham everybody can get their sign your checks send them in let's go wow wow possession of child pornography should be like you shouldn't be able to Pardon for stuff like that it's like there's certain things it's like come on you know I spent uh almost eight years in prison for politics not for crimes so I'm happy to answer any questions you have about any of it cuz I didn't didn't do it it was all politics but the first three years almost three years they put me in a higher security prison and I'm in there with Crips and bloods and Gangster Disciples and seen AA cartel drug why would they do that they were squeezing me and pressuring me because they wanted me to basically say I did something that I didn't do they wanted me to plead guilty to non crimes so they wanted to scare you by putting in you in with dangerous people yeah and uh and they really punish me cuz I fought back in a way that no one really does except for Trump I mean I was fighting back when they brought those charges against me everywhere and I was calling them criminals and they are what
did they expect you to do they expect you to just take a sentence a lower sentence confess what did they offer you they tried me twice after the first trial where they failed to convict me on their fake corruption charges they were floating 18 months and uh you know there were a lot of people in my team like my lawyers who thought that might be the prudent thing to do because you really can't beat these people the system is rigged and when they really want to get you they'll just keep trying you and they'll get their judge who to work with them and they'll they'll ultimately convict you as they did Me by using unlawful standards to criminalize things that are legal in politics and government so The Prudent thing the safe thing was to you know cut your losses and you know take the short period of prison time but I felt you know I wasn't a businessman I suppose if I was a businessman facing something like that you make a business decision you cut your losses you realize they're bleeding you financially you can't afford lawyers this is going to be an endless thing it was already 3 years at that point that we had been fighting it uh but I was the governor twice elected by the people and you know these oats don't mean a lot to some people it sounds like a bunch of [ __ ] to say I sworn the Holy Bible as the governor to preserve protect the rule of law the Constitution I just couldn't do it and I knew it was all [ __ ] it was all corrupt they knew it was all corrupt and it was all an effort to try to get me to to admit it and if I admitted it then the truth would never come out they could never be exposed for what they did and because I wouldn't do it and I fought back because if I'm right and I know I am and they were doing to me what they ultimately ended up doing to Trump weaponizing their uncontrolled power and unlimited resources to criminalize political things um if the truth comes out they're going to be facing some sort of accountability hopefully one day and hopefully now with the new Administration they'll reform the laws and um well you saw that the head of the FBI just steep down yep and cash Patel is going to come in and he wants to clean house let's take it back to the beginning so I know they were bugging your phones but
you kind of knew they were bugging your phones right you know when you come out of Chicago politics which is a politics that probably has a larger proportion of corruption than that's how they got JFK elected other places yeah right the mob was involved in that yeah that's well done the river Awards made the difference mayor Dy the first mayor da was holding back those the counting of those votes until he saw what southern Illinois Republican area came up with and once those votes were counted then he he let those River WS come out and GI and KH and people like that were really instrumental in electing Kennedy and then when Bobby Kennedy started going after Gan K they as the Attorney General they felt betrayed rightly so yeah of course but uh a Deal's a deal right I mean apparently the father made the deal right um but with me it was uh I always felt that there was a possibility that not only would they be listening but that somebody would set you up and Through the Years in politics people would they'd come to you and offer you things that you knew were illegal and uh you didn't do it because it was illegal but also you felt this could be a setup this could be the FBI trying to entrap you into doing something and that's a common thing not an uncommon thing so when you fir what was the first charge that was brought against you or if you could just bring us back to the moment when you knew they were coming after you I was elected the first democratic government Illinois in November 2002 after 26 years of Republican Governors I first learned that they began to look into my Administration and people around me in December of 2003 and I had been governor for 10 months and they were already looking and I knew it which meant we got to be super extra careful because these people are scrutinizing us on the one hand I felt good that put puts pressure on people around me and people are doing work for me to do the legal things and not cross lines I never imagined that the FBI and the Department of Justice and these us attorneys Who come out of the best schools would be so corrupt and dishonest I felt like okay they'll look and see how we do things and if we make some mistakes along the way we'll make adjustments so they chased me for five years and by the time they taped my
phones it was no surprise there was all kinds of pressure at that time because they had gotten a guy who was close to me and Obama guy by the name of Tony Resco who they probably convicted him of things that weren't crimes either they were squeezing him to say things about me and Obama he wouldn't do it they put him into solitary confinement for 3 years to get him to to in invent crimes against us he wouldn't do it this guy's a standup guy Obama sold him out and he did more for Obama than he ever did for me um but I knew all of that and so at the time when they began wiretapping my phones which is late October 2008 everything I talked about doing with regard to the appointment of Obama successor to the United States Senate I felt it was very possible they were listening how could they not because they were chasing me they so much wanted to get me and Obama and I both were um in their crosshairs in the very beginning but I think the politics of it changes his political fortunes improved and he looked like he was going to be the next president and these people these us attorneys get appointed by the president and these were Bush appointed Cheney appointed prosecutors and it's very unusual that the previous administrations prosecutors stay in office when the new president comes in they leave as you see with Trump and the other parties people come in but these people stayed in and when they arrested me what they wanted me to do was to basically say that I was guilty of trying to sell a senate seat and I was trying to sell it to another guilty party who was the guy who started the whole thing by the name of Barack Obama who wanted to buy that senate seat because that's where the whole thing began it was Obama an election night he sent an emissary to me to suggest a political deal because he wanted this woman named Valerie Jarrett to be appointed to his senate seat the governor PA for a second hold that thought Jamie there's feedback you hear that you hear that VI that it was on the last podcast too really yeah it's gone just ended what was that my is yep that's it okay all right we're back this episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog dogs are amazing they're loyal they're lovable
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little bit easier to kind of test the mood of the other person if you have a third party who both of people like or respect in this particular case it was a labor Boss by the name of Tom balinov he came up to me election night in November 2008 that was the election you voted for Obama you and I are both guilty of that um and I was there then Chicago was magical you know historic and it was great in the sense that finally America you know crossed a significant barrier a black person can be elected president the United States every black child growing up can now look and say one day maybe I can be that you know there's the American dream and opportunity so in that sense it was a beautiful thing um so this ballad off guy comes up to me and he says Brock called me last night he said I was pumping gas in this gas station in the South Loop area downtown Chicago Chicago Brock called me last night he said it was around he even told me the time like around 6:30 or 7 at night and he asked me to come to you he would like you to appoint Valerie Jared as his successor to the Senate you wanted me to know what you want I wonder if I can come and see you so we can discuss this I said sure call me tomorrow now that's totally legal and appropriate he's not suggesting anything illegal Obama just wants to make a political deal but what happened was they criminalized it against me and uh so they criminalized Barack Obama trying to force his pick for senate seat and you accepting it Obama wasn't trying to force it he was trying to make a deal to persuade me to do it or what would you get out of that that's what we discussed for six weeks and the FBI was talking about that and we discussed all kinds of crazy ideas a lot of good ideas spent two days talking about the possibility of appointing Oprah Winfrey um what you might appreciate this yeah know she's from Chicago do you remember when Trump won there were there like I NBC or one of these [ __ ] people tweeted out this is our our president and it was Oprah no I didn't know that yeah Ser find that one like a major Network tweeted out this is our president wow I was like okay so we spent six weeks talking about all kinds of ideas because this was to quote me [ __ ] golden not giving it up for nothing we got a chance
to do something with this and and all of these ideas and thoughts were discussed with my Governor's lawyer on all those calls largely because I knew these people were chasing me and I wanted to be sure whatever decision I made it was legal we didn't cross lines or make a mistake maybe I missed something and you know this was unique and so I explored all kinds of ideas I even spend one conversation I think you might appreciate this they played this at court in my first trial and my wife sitting there loving dutiful devoted faithful wife sitting in a courtroom every single day at both trials and the media is in there every day day and they could do whatever they want these prosecutors the judge was their guy and so they're you know they're playing all these tapes out of context they're not allowing me to play tapes we want to fill up the context they only played 2% of the tapes they denied 98% of them to this day those tapes are covered up because all kinds of people are on those calls there wasn't anything illegal about it but you know Rah Emanuel Harry Reed at the time was the Democratic leader um every possible big- time Democrats on those BS with me but to go back to uh some of these crazy ideas you know I was trying to appoint someone who was black but not in politics I was looking for a military hero of some sort um everybody wanted me to make them Senators you can imagine in politics I wanted to think outside the box and we were testing all these ideas including Oprah and then I'm talking to my lawyer quinland and I say hey it is NBC nothing but respect for our future president if that's the case I'm going to do what Ellen degenerous did I'm going to move to England I'm not going to move to England I'm just going to mock NBC so what does it say yesterday a tweet about the Golden Globes in open wiy was sent by a third-party Agency for NBC entertainment in real time during the broadcast it is in reference to a joke made during the monologue and not meant to be a political statement we have since removed the Tweet right okay so anyway so I'm I'm at the first trial that playing these tapes and they had they gave you these trans transcripts book so you can see in writing what you're going to actually hear when they
play the tape MH and by then I'd gotten used to trying to know what was coming so I can brace myself you know and you know they pick all the unflattering stuff but none of it's criminal and if you add it you put the rest of the calls in there it fills it fills out the context of course so in this one particular call I asked my lawyer quinland his name hey quinland what's the rule again on residency requirements how old do you how long do you have to live in Illinois to be a senator and he said uh just one day and and you got to be 30 years old and you could be you can be a naturalized citizen or American board citizen so I say because we were not finding the black military hero why doesn't somebody go to California ask hiy Barry if she'd like to be a United States Senator she comes to Illinois for one day I'll make her a senator and maybe I could [ __ ] her I'm joking around right well they play this you know in court there's my wife sitting right there you know oh boy and I look ahead and I'm looking at the clock and there's like 10 minutes to go before noon where the judge is going to recess for lunch and I'm thinking if I could just get there before they play this tape I could at least pre you know kind of prepare her for what's coming right and I made it and so I ta her on the knee and I kind of showed her the book and I said look I was just kidding and her reaction was what are you 16 well that's the same thing as like the grab him by the [ __ ] comment it's like guys talk like that it doesn't mean they mean it guys talk like that all the time for fun it's not you know you say it's misogynist it's this it's it's just [ __ ] talking it's what guys do and they know that the other person doesn't mean it that's why it's funny to say yeah and let's face it most of us like that stuff yeah we like joking around about stuff like that it's fun [ __ ] and everybody would laugh and even if you ever never did anything or never even intended to do anything you'd say something like that to get a a rise out of your friends so years would go by and I'm sitting in prison I'm making one of my nightly calls home and my wife's on the phone and uh that Billy Bush tape came out what a slimy thing to do to Trump right it comes on everybody's W them office of
President he can't win pressure by his party to get out of the race and my wife was you know offended by it and she's telling me you have two young daughters how could you possibly defend this and I said let me take you back to a day in court okay before you judge somebody else look at your own husband and I told her about the P Berry thing and what I said and I said this is you know as you explained it um and I think people have to realize that so many of these things that are taken out of context are taken out of context for a reason it is to mislead the public and Prejudice them against things and that the context aspect of it is very important because there is such a difference between a statement and someone tapping a phone while people are having a private conversation and talking [ __ ] there's just and did they read it or play it when you said that both yeah yeah people talk [ __ ] like you can't pretend that that's what they actually mean you know it's one thing if you get someone planning a crime but everyone knows that people talk that way you just pretend they don't because they don't a professional setting yes look I spent 2,896 days because what they did and how they did it so if you just went along with whatever they asked and didn't ask for any political bartering you think nothing would have came over this oh no no I would have Oh you mean just political if you if if they came to you and said Obama would like you to put this person in the senator if you just agreed to it you think none of this would happened no I think they were going to do whatever they did to get me no matter what why because they had spent so much time and money five years but why did they do that why' they why did they come after you I think that uh I think part of it has to do with the a lot of it has to do with the actual us attorney his name is Patrick Fitzgerald he and James Comey are real close it's this sort of FBI doj type people who've become part of the today's Department of Justice and they feel like they're a power center in of their own right that they're this new political place in American government they are so dangerous to our freedoms in this country I think it was largely that he had gotten he had convicted the the
previous governor Republican Governor Ryan of crimes that he had committed when he was the Secretary of State of Illinois and so now he could be the first guy in history to get two straight governors and I think it was that I think he wanted to leverage Obama to keep him in office so he can finish the job and get me after investing five years and he came up with nothing that's why they invented the crimes from those conversations and if anybody doubts this and I fully understand why people would the question I'd ask people is will you tell me what side is Ling the side that refuses to play 98% of the tapes that they made or the guy that's saying play them all warts and all there's unflattering calls say stupid things or you know I'm angry or whatever the case may be or I'm using profanity they rep played those but play those tapes what are you hiding the side that's hiding is the side that's lying and they're hiding it to this day they covered up all those tapes they wouldn't even let me play them in court in the second trial even though they promised that that would could play them if I testified to the second trial and so I got up on this danjo and the judge had promised on the 20th of May 2011 I thought this was the day I'd be Vindicated he said look if he agrees to testify he can play the tapes to Cor corroborate his testimony cuz I was a lawyer and I was also a prosecutor at the state level Cook County prosecutor and I know how the system works and I know that if you get up there and you're saying certain things and one side has tapes of you saying something that you're saying stuff but you don't have tapes to corroborate what you're saying the prosecutor is going to Simply tell the jury in closing argument go back at the Jury Room and see how many times you hear what he testified to corroborated by those tapes and if you don't find any tapes then you know who's lying I knew this but when the judge said I can do it on the record I felt beautiful I'll testify and then we'll play the tapes to back up my testimony so I get up there I testify then when it's time to play the tapes the judge won't allow them it was a setup and then the prosecutor does exactly what I knew they would do if those tapes weren't heard he says go
back into the Jury Room and see how many times he talked about the Madigan deal because that was the big deal I was about to make before they arrested me you won't hear a single tape even though there were 102 conversations on that subject they were all covered up and the jury didn't know those tapes existed it's it was a total [ __ ] frame up in a rigged criminal justice system in a court that was rigged and that's today's America and why what happened to Trump is so important they did it to him in those different courts where he they got the convictions for things that weren't crimes yeah there's multiple things that have changed our timeline and one of the big ones is him being elected because that means they Dro those cases and all that weaponizing of the justice system didn't work if it did work that is such an insanely dangerous precedent to set when you see things like the documents case or the real estate case which is the most disgusting one pretending that Mara Lago that somehow or another someone was a victim because he overvalued Mara Lago even though he paid all those loans back and the banks profited from it there was no victim at all and yet find him this [ __ ] insane amount of money and try to say that Maraga was worth $18 million that is just such a slap in the face of anybody that understands first of all anybody understands property values in that area that's preposterous to say that place is only $18 million it's [ __ ] enormous property in the most expensive real estate in the United States or one of the most expensive places for real estate and there was just so many of these cases over and over and over again that just right in everyone's face and very little push back no push back from the media at all they went along with it as if these 34 felonies for a bookkeeping error that is essentially a misdemeanor that's passed the statute of limitations and now you're marking it up as a felony but you can't even identify the felony the whole thing is madness and all these news organizations because they don't like Trump are going along with this insanely dangerous president because if that goes through well what happens if Republicans get into office and you have some new democrat that you really love and this
Democrat is a real Challenge and a threat to the Republican and they start doing the same [ __ ] [ __ ] that you did are is that what you want you want us to be a Banana Republic just because you don't like Trump I mean it just shows you how many people were willing to sacrifice all of their ethics all the things that they believe in what the Bill of Rights stands for what the Constitution stands for [ __ ] all that we don't want this guy to win throw it all away and then you throw everything away then we have no freedom of speech we have no nothing it's it's all gone the whole thing is so it's so mindboggling how shortsighted people are in the name of wanting their side to win well well said I don't want to sound like an ego Maniac but I got to tell you they got away with it with me and they got emboldened then to say we can do it to a Democratic governor the fifth largest state in America we can get away with it non [ __ ] crimes that we make up [ __ ] and call them certain things that are sexy sounding sale of the send seat that eventually was a reverse by the appell court that can uphold that unlawful standard three fundraising requests where there was no quit proquo I got convicted of that none of it was personal corruption no one said even took a penny and they gave me 14 years because I was fighting against them and exposing them so it started I really believe with me and they got away with it with me and some of the same people Comey Fitzgerald those people were doing it to Trump with Russia collusion stuff and some of the same people then went on and have been doing it as part of a get this organized political campaign that came right out of the Oval Office out of the the Democratic National Committee the DNC into the doj they've corrupted the Department of Justice and the FBI and they've corrupted the rule of law and the Constitution and this is no small thing and just because Trump won because the American people are beginning to get it doesn't mean we're safe the Trump Administration God willing is going to do something very serious about this if there's anything that this Administration can do to make America great again is to protect our rights and our freedoms and to hold the people that do this accountable and make an example of them not to be vengeful
but because it's just and because it send sends a message to these unaccountable prosecutors have who have no check and balance that if they do this and frame innocent people they're going to be treated the same way as a dirty cop who plants and murder weapon to frame an innocent man as they should be look at this guy Andrew Weissman on CNN he's got a big spot at CNN the legal expert you ever see this guy no anyway he was a former US attorney and he made his name by destroying Arthur Anderson a company that had all these people working for him in accounting company Nationwide one of the biggest accounting firms in America he used a standard that wasn't lawful to get convictions on them eventually United States Supreme Court took the case and they ruled nine to nothing unanimous that the standard that Weissman used to prosecute Arthur Anderson was an unlawful standard but the damage was done that company went bankrupt all those people lost their jobs and this Andrew Weissman gets promoted and becomes This legal expert and Scholar on CNN that guy Fitzgerald Comey and people who do this Jack Smith Alvin Bragg Leticia James they ought to go right to [ __ ] jail what was what were they accusing this company of obstruction of justice that they were destroying records and stuff um but and that would have been a crime had they been had they done it after they'd been subpoenaed but they weren't subpoena they had a right to do whatever they wanted with their records before anybody compelled them to to produce them was instruction of justice and what was the accusation like what were they uh trying to get them on saying that they were destroying documents and evidence about what though about uh the eukon work for Enron which was a real Scandal yeah yeah I saw the smartest men in the room yep that talk about like geez anybody who doesn't believe in conspiracies watch that Jeff Skilling was in the prison with me oh really yeah wow yeah he was a he got a big sentence and then eventually they found prose wrongdoing and he was able to reduce it down from something like 26 years to 14 but he was there with me along with smelly and socks and Mr B and V and G and all kinds of guys I bet he met a lot of characters all kinds I'm
writing a book about it you know it's a story that starts with one president ends with another and there's a governor in prison with Gangster Disciples seen a low cartel drug the there's pedophiles that's what I meant to tell you I was in there with something like 400 pedophiles Jesus murderers bank robbers what do they do with the pedophiles in jail they're a protected class in prison because everybody would [ __ ] them up because of the nature of a lot of their crimes some of them are worse than others some are like this guy that got pardoned by Biden which is unbelievable um where they're in the child pornography but some were far worse than that they harmed children so how do they protect these people you you get more than cancelled if you even say something bad to them you can't offend them you can't call them a name what they that's their way of policing the other inmates who hate them and resent them really so they're protected yes because the the PE the thing that people always loved about pedophiles going to jail is like oh there's going to be some jail Justice well there is notwithstanding their policy the bop's policy the guy that was um Jared the guy Subway guy um he ended up going to the same prison I was in after I worked my way out of the that higher security prison the one behind the barbar wire fence and got to a camp Jared got to my prison because it's a pedophile it's a prison that has a lot of pedophiles out of the 950 guys roughly that I was in prison with there there were about 3 to 400 pedophiles and then there were drug dealers bank robbers some guys have committed murder there were 2% White Collar Skilling one of them one Governor me right um but those pedophiles the sex offenders if you you can't call them pedophiles and the derogatory term you're not allowed to call them pedophiles you can't call them pedophiles and you can't call them chomos that's the inside prison name for these guys it's Cho chomo so I'm there day two in prison I got 14 years ahead of me they gave me a 14e sentence I mean Trump pulled me out of there after eight and uh I'm in there second day as you can imagine I write about this in the book it's a hard experience a long hard journey it's heartbreaking in so many
ways for me and my family and it hard but uh you know I'm learning the ropes I got all my fellow inmates there and uh I'm hearing this phrase this term called you know chomos [ __ ] chomo you know that guy you know he's a chomo they say that and I'd say what's that and they they told me and so I was with one of my uh the uh case manager or somebody they were giving me more of the information I needed for the stuff I had to learn as a new inmate and I mentioned so who are these chos and she goes you can't say that it's not chumo it's and she whispered it it's chumo you can't say that that's strictly forbidden here if you say that you'll go to the shoe now so what's that I have to ask her well the shoe was uh special housing unit Shu the the vernacular was shoe solitary confinement and the way they police the inmates then punish them to varying degrees is you get thrown in solitary confinement so if you just say Tomo that all in solitary confinement for how long maybe a weeke that so how yeah that's so crazy that they protect pedophiles yeah now I I don't want to sound like I'm a too liberal or something but they have to because if left are their own devices these guys would get so [ __ ] up by the general population who are outraged by their crimes and are also to outrage by the fact that a lot of them a lot of them got special treatment in their sentencing so you see this guy that Biden just pardoned or gave clemency to let's hope it was just clemency not a pardon my God but these sex offenders are getting lighter sentences than the drug dealers or the bank robbers and if you look at a system of punishment that's supposed to be just and fair and hopefully always tempered with Mercy you'd like to think that there's equal application of the law that there's some sort of fairness and that when you measure the victims of the certain crimes that that should be a part of the sentencing so drug dealers would argue a lot of it not violent and they're right their stuff was nonviolent these guys really harmed children the ones that touch children not the ones who just looked at at the pornography how did they justify you being in this high security prison like why would they put you in with pedophiles and murderers
and gang bangers why would they do that obviously to squeeze you but how do they how do they how do they pass that through you get anybody who gets a sentence of over 10 years has to doe time and you can't be in a camp so and if any and certain people can't be in camps for example any kind of violent offender cannot be in a camp um pedophiles cannot be in a camp that's good and camps don't have you know fences there's not ired Gates that lock you in I mean I went from a 50,000 foot Governor's Mansion to a 6ot by 8ot prison cell I mean it's real prison like in the movies those iron gates shut you in you know and you're restricted in your movements and you're with some badass guys you know they're interesting guys and I met a lot of guys I really liked but uh they did it because they purposely G gave me a sentence above 10 years to force me to go into a [ __ ] hole prison and to try not just squeeze me but to punish me and the punishment was because I had the tarity to fight back you know who is this guy he was only twice elected governor of the fifth largest state to challenge us and I fought back and uh you know frankly the beauty of it is that had I not fought back the way I did Trump would have never known me uh he saw me on television fighting back I mean I fought back in ways that predated him the way he does and it wasn't by design it was just I felt like Jesus I didn't do anything wrong and they know it this is politics and you know this is wrong bad for our country I can't give into this and by the way if I'm right they are criminals I have to fight back and so I was on all these TV shows everything and Trump saw me in the David Letterman show I think and uh and by the way when they do this to you and they arrest you like they did they arrested me at 6 o'clock in the morning in my house and uh it was a super Sensational press conference it was international news back then in December of 2008 there were two [ __ ] in the the two biggest [ __ ] in the world were me and Bernie maof because they arrested him like a day or two after me you remember this wow and uh and it was you know I just I had to fight back and so I was and but you can't make a living you you have they they threw me out of office and you learn who your friends are in politics
and not a single one of them you know they all ran for the hills to protect themselves they all voted to throw you out and uh because the politics of it was was bad at that time but that's a time where podcasts would have come in handy yes imagine you can go on a podcast and just lay out the whole case and exactly what's going on and even play tapes it can't play tapes I'll tell you why you could never because they were recorded because they put a court seal on it they arrested me they play me saying this is [ __ ] gold and not give it up for nothing but they don't play what comes after it right right if it says I want $100 million in a Swiss bank account which by the way the current governor pritz crew had called me to ask me to make him Senator because he inherited a billion dollars that's the one you'd sell it to but if I said that that would be a crime but there was none of that they covered that up so they get they go to court a couple of days after I'm arrested and they go for their judge and they get a sealed order they put a gag on it so the tapes cannot be played publicly in court and you I can't talk about what's on those tapes wow unless it comes from my independent recollection I can't release them it's crime you can't talk about what's on those tapes unless it comes from your own personal recollection right so you can talk about the tapes you just can't play them correct and you can't quote them I can quote what I remember personally and I remember some of it of course but at least you could have laid out your version of it so people could hear it correct and it would put pressure on them and I was doing it not on podcast but I was doing it on the Today's Show Good Morning America CBS Morning Nightline dayline all shows is there's so it's such a short segment that's right exactly you don't have enough time to lay out the environment how it works what what really goes on in politics how you what is what's normal for how these deals are made well said yes exactly right so this person that Obama wanted whatever happened to that person she became like a top adviser for Obama in the white house now there's a school of thought there's a theory that that's plausible Obama publicly said he did not send this labor guy to me but balonov
the the Emissary in two trials testified twice under oath that he that Obama called him Obama then was interviewed by the FBI the day or two after I was arrested and if you lie to the FBI they call them 302s these interviews it's a crime but I've learned that the FBI is really the FBI lie and you sit down like I did stupidly you talk to these people they say you lied and you say they lied who are you going to believe if you're a jury right it's a big mistake to ever trust them to be honest so my advice anybody out there is getting chased by the FBI don't talk to them and I I thought they were the good guys so I sat down and talked to them well Obama talked to them and every defendant is entitled to relevant evidence that could help him or her defend themselves against prosecution but to this day they would never give us Obama's 302s so did Obama really send this guy like that guy testified to or did Obama not do it like he publicly said he did he said he didn't do it so somebody's lying somebody broke a law either Balin off's lying he purged himself at two trials or Obama is lying on those FBI 302s or he lied which is a crime or he lied to the public which all too often politicians do all the time and Obama's one of them who does it a lot he does it a lot um balinoff this guy what would be his motivation for saying that Obama wanted you to do that the theory is among a lot of political insiders who know how it works that he was an emissary for Rah Emanuel who became Obama's Chief of Staff was a member of Congress I had a pretty good relationship with him he's all over the FBI tapes with me and so that Obama never said anything about it but Rah Emanuel said something to him Rah Emanuel asked him to do it and instructed him to tell him that Barack himself had asked him to come this is just a theory a theory and the theory is plausible in that what would be the motivation for Rah to do that was that as the new Chief of Staff with Obama and in the power game of politics which is something he knows real well and I know is people want to be close to the king and Jarrett Valerie Jarrett was Michelle Obama's best friend and she was a threat to the influence of of Rah and others and if you get her kicked upstairs to the US
Senate she won't be in rah's way to have more of a voice and more say in Obama in the direction of Obama's administration now this is a theory it's a theory interesting Theory so what's day one like in prison I write about that in detail in my book it's like chapter three or chapter 4 have you published this book yet no it's coming out it's going to come out uh I hope by Spring I hope I get it done I'm almost done um you have a publisher and everything so I it's interesting the politics the publishing companies I've pre-sold about over 8,000 already haven't even put it out for pre-sale yet I'm about to do it blacko something books Rod blo books or something we haven't done it yet but um but I've pre-old some to people you know friends and others about 8,000 of them already so it's helped me to be able to like self-publish and create my own little publishing company and the reason I'm compelled to do it is because I've gone to some of the New York publishing houses and they are so anti-trump that if you say something nice about Trump and he comes across really well in my book I was on his show he was great to me he's a kind guy I'll tell you stories about him if you want he pulled me out of there H you know I love Donald Trump for a lot of reasons of course because he gave my daughters their father back so I write well about him he comes across very well Obama doesn't come across so good he doesn't come across as evil but he comes across a very selfish very you know calculating politician who an opportunity to be a great president instead divided our country and who was a snake and an ingret and who sold out his friend Tony Resco who bought him a lot this guy bought him a lot next to a mansion that he bought after he was elected to the United States Senate Obama's at that time only had $750,000 they could afford for a mansion they wanted to buy the adjoining lot in this real upper class neighborhood called Kenwood H Park neighborhood in Chicago by Obama's library and they didn't they couldn't afford the other lot so they he went to his friend res Obama did and Resco is a kind-hearted person and he wants to help his friend Obama so he pays like seven he pays list
price like $750,000 for the lot the Obama paid less for the lot with the Improvement on it the big mansion Obama now is running for president that comes out he's got to fix his political problem he goes to Resco and he says I got to put a fence between the lot and the Mansion so I could explain to the media that that uh it's your lot not mine right and he prefers he asks for a RW iron fence not just any old fence not a chain League fence he wants a RW iron fence because it matches the mansion and then he hands rco bill for $113,000 for the RO RW iron fence and then when rco suppers for three years in solitary confinement because he won't lie about Obama or me he sends a letter to the federal sentencing judge saying they're squeezing him to say stuff about both of us makes the front page of the Chicago tribute in August 2008 that he won't do it they put him in solitary confine for three years for three years he saw the sun one hour a day and then when he got out of there he does he tries to do a burp beep and he faints because he's so skinny and so weak after three years of that and this [ __ ] Obama did nothing to help him Jesus it's unbelievable so opposite of the kind of guy Trump is I mean I didn't do anything for Trump and he helped me he just saw something wrong and I think he I think he kind of liked me on Celebrity Apprentice he liked the way I was fighting back I know that but he fired me on that show and freed me from prison he's historic he fired and freed the same guy even LOL didn't do that day one mhm do you have hope it's going to be overturned and an appeal like what are you thinking when you get in there yeah boy that's a great question look the hardest period during this whole thing was the months after the conviction to the day that you surrender because now you know you're going away and you're fearful it's going to be long in fact days a couple of months before the sentence came down I'm jogging I'm running through the neighborhoods and I see that was newspapers back then it's a newspaper box front page big colored picture of me I see it I'm running past it I saw the headline briefly I came back running in place I see it 30 Years to Life the prosecutors are asking for 30 Years to
Life on me life yeah Jesus Christ I never took a penny they don't even say I took a penny it was all talk about politics so you know that I got home faster that that sort of stuff quickens your pace a little bit you know yeah but that period was the hardest the moment I stepped into prison I write in the in my book that one advantage of crossing the threshold in the prison was that with every now with every tick of the clock you're one second closer to this nightmare this kcast nightmare finally being over one second closer to coming home to your daughters and to your wife even though it might be 14 years and one less second you know what I mean but you're you're at least it's starting now yeah you've hit the bottom and now you're trying to you're climbing back up just from a Time point of view but that first day I'll work backwards I'll never forget the first night after that long long day that I that I went through you know the media was covering me like I was OJ Simpson they were at my house at 6 530 in the morning when I kissed my little girls Goodbye My Little Annie banan was 8 years old at the time she's in her pajamas and she hugs and squeezes me and my daughter Amy she was a sophomore in high school she was 15 and we're all in the four year it's all dark because you got all these media trucks around your house we live in a neighborhood a normal neighborhood just not gated and they're all over the place and so they look into your house so we had to keep the lights off kiss my wife goodbye my two daughters hardest thing I've ever do did was saying goodbye to them but you got to be strong for them and you can't you can't show those [ __ ] in the media that you're dying inside so you got to be strong when you step out there all kinds of film footage of that when I left and there's a helicopter that follows me news helicopter from my house all the way to ohare Airport in Chicago like I was OJ Simpson in that white Bronco I called the chapter my white Bronco moment and uh and then when I got on the at the airport there was this big gagle of media there and then when I get on the plane these [ __ ] are on the plane they bought tickets so I can't even like you know get give it a second to think about what just happened me saying goodbye to my family and I'll be
gone for worst case scenario 14 years but if I behave myself it'll be 12 and A2 years right good behavior and then I land in Denver and they're there and so I'm trying to leave the plane they're all waiting there at the gate and then they the people in Denver were really nice at the at uh the airline I think it was United Airlines and they got me out a side door and had a car waiting so I was able to leave and for a moment I thought I was away from the media as I'm about to drive to prison but no they caught us they got out they caught up with us and I got there a little bit early to prison so I told my one of my lawyers who was driving me you you know what we're like a half an hour early I'm already giv him 14 years I don't want to give him 30 minutes more let's stop for a cup of coffee or something so I went to this little restaurant a little fast fruit place called Freddy's in Denver the Denver area Littleton Colorado and uh it was really surreal because you know people knew who I was and they were really warm and loving I'm signing autographs you'd never know I'm about to go to prison for 14 years and and then the time came to to walk in and I learned later that Trump was watching this because it was all live on television and and he had tweeted about it that day I mean I I got a million reasons why I love Donald Trump I was so alone everybody of prominence and politics and government and in the media you know were you were calling me all these nasty things and here's Trump the only guy with who had like some Authority and had a following was the only guy saying like positive things about me they were compassionate they he wasn't necessarily saying he was saying that I denied it and I wasn't you know I'm entitled to a you know presumption of innocence but there was compassion with Trump and he tweets that day you know I learned later I didn't know it then but I learned what I came home that he tweeted that I see him walking into prison gets 14 years murders and rapists get four years do you think this is Justice I don't just a loyal guy to a guy that was on his show because I don't really know him that well but just to me says a lot about who he is as a person but then I walked in and I get greeted by all these inmates and I was a people ask me were you
afraid I wasn't afraid of anything you know my life was so you know beaten down by what they did I was so disillusioned I was angry there was bitterness but I was mostly heartbroken and sad and missing my children fearful my children my wife they were left alone I couldn't protect them people knew where we live the media made sure that everybody saw where we lived because they were always in front of our house I was worried about their safety I knew I had all those years to do and um now I'm in prison and all these guys are watching me coming into their world on live television so I had two things going for me in terms of how my my stock with the fellow inmates number one I was a qu you know sort of a I was a celebrity inmate they just saw me coming into prison nobody gets walks into prison Live TV and the bigger part the more important part was I got a what they call a 14th piece that's the vernacular of how inmates talk he got a 14 piece means he didn't snitch on anybody see anybody who gets a long sentence means they're getting punished because they wouldn't talk about anybody the guys who walk in with light sentences become immediately suspect by the inmates it's the culture there as snitches and they hate the snitches snitches are [ __ ] who get stitches right that's what they said sure So I walked in there and I had immediate street cred with those guys and they were they were nice to me they actually gathered together what little beans they had and and went to the commissary to get me Necessities for my first week toothbrush toothpaste shower shoes um just a g very nice kind thing to you know me these were drug dealers and bank robbers and you know tough guys all tatted up tough guys you know their gangs would be tatted on their heads and stuff or on their you know biceps did you have to join a gang I write about I write about how the coral officers wanted me to actually join the the white group The Aryan Brotherhood guys the correctional officers want why did they want you to do it so I in this one of the chapters the early chapters it's uh I wasn't in prison for 27 hours before I broke my first prison Rule and they called me in Maple Govich you know the report to the Lieutenant's office and I
had to be explained to me this was the my first full day there was a my second day there was after my first full day when I walked in and I got a chance to see the prison yard and I walked around the yard with a couple of black guys one of both from Illinois one from theas side of Chicago gang banger drug deer um name was slim and another guy named Walter Hill from East St Louis Illinois and uh I was their governor and they were really nice to me and we walked around the track and we were talking about and I was interested in the facilities you know one of the things I was determined to do in prison was to work out a lot and to read a lot and eventually I read the Bible a lot like if you want to talk about that at some point because that was so meaningful to me but they called me in the next day because the word got out that I was walking the track with black black guys and it was explained to me by the the authorities there that prison's a very segregated place that the that the unwritten policy in order to keep order is that people need to be part of their own cars they called it the euphemism for gangs andison his cars what car do you ride with ride in and that they thought that for my own safety that number one I shouldn't be you know walking around with black guys I need to be part of a car and I need to join the white car and go see these two guys Cole and sadness sad sadness sadness his name was I thought it was sadness too exactly because I'm looking around who sadness who sadness I'm looking for sadness right his name was sand Ness and Cole was the leader I think he was from Texas and uh they so they told me that I should go see them it's out of respect for the the police officers the correal officers I I said okay I'll go see him but I made it clear to them listen I don't give a [ __ ] because they told me look when you get into a conflict with somebody and it's inevitable cuz you're in prison with a bunch of guys for a long time there's going to be all kinds of disputes you want the window open the other guy wants it closed you didn't put the weight back in the weight room like he would have wanted there's all kinds of [ __ ] that's going to have that conflicts that develop between guys living close like that the way we keep
order is we keep the races and the and the different ethnic groups separated they all become part of their individual cars you sit with them in a commissary I mean at the cafeteria they call it the chow hall you uh you you work out with them you walk the track with them you're polite to the other groups but you don't really get friendly with them because if you have a conflict with somebody your car will protect you especially if it becomes a conflict with somebody from another race or another group of people in the prison I was in were a lot of black guys a lot of Latinos a lot of guys from Mexico seen a lot of drug cartel people uh a lot of Native Americans there were Pacific Islanders uh and of course white guys and sex offenders they were their own group and so they all pretty much you know rode in their own cars the separate cars but I told them I'm not look I don't fear anybody if somebody wants to [ __ ] kill me here in some ways are put put me out of my misery I'm not going to be doing some you know kind of thing like that it's you know it's racist I'm not doing that I'm G whoever's nice to me I'm going to be nice to them and I'll respect your rules I won't sit with the black guys or with any Latino guys I'll sit with the white guys um but I'm not going to unless you're order me to tell and telling me I can't walk with those guys or talk to these guys I'm going to keep doing it and they say well we can't do that cuz this is an Unwritten way that we operate and keep order in prison and then they told me something which I respected they said look at you're not in the real world here anymore this is not a place where you could be a civil rights Advocate or an activist a civil right activist this is prison you don't have the same rights here that you have out there we can't order you not to have relationships or conversations with people from another race but we can't order you to you know to stop doing stuff that could be counterproductive to us keeping safety so if you're going to sit with somebody outside your race in the chow hall that's a direct up front to us and there are measures that we can take to make sure that you don't do those sorts of things and I respected the fact that they said it was to keep order and it was the culture and pretty much everybody in the prison system
accepts it anyway eventually I sat with some of the black guys as time went by and we actually made a little an elder black guy by the name Mr B he was originally from Chicago and from Detroit he was like the most respected inmate he got a 25e sentence he looked like Morgan Freeman the actor he was a lot like him actually very mature responsible he was the guy a lot of the guys went to for their legal questions because he knew everything and a real nice man and a gentle man and by the time I got there he had already done like 20 something years so he was close to going home I'd stay up late at night with him talking in that in the uh in the uh dormatory portion of the prison where you you where I was first before I got my cell um but it was important to him that before he left after 20 something years that he could actually sit at the child Hall with a white guy and he liked me because I was you know from Chicago and uh so we did that one day and I thought I was we you know was probably I was there probably a year and a half by the time we did that and I sat there and everybody looked at us you know we're sitting there I'm sitting with the black table and then this great movement for civil disobedience and civil rights petered out no one gave a [ __ ] really yeah yeah it didn't matter at all wow yeah well was it because that guy was so respected yeah I think that was a lot of it and you know you know not everybody likes you some people really dislike it and there were guys in prison who really didn't like me but for the most part I had a lot of you know I I had low approval writings after I got arrested as they were investigating me when I was governor but I had pretty high approval ratings in prison with my fellow inmates so um how did you get into the Bible because that was a big part of your conversation with Tucker yeah you know well you know so that that first night you know when they the Stark reality really hit me that first night went around 10 o'clock at night I hear this big boom and then you hear the gates shutting because they were now locking you in it's all Iron and it's loud [ __ ] and then the lights go down then the lights are out now suddenly you're you're swallowed up in Blackness and darkness and we're locked in iron bars
you can't get out and here I am with all these prisoners inmates you know and uh I just left my family at 5:30 in the morning I'm not going home tonight or tomorrow night or next week or next month or next year right God willing I win my appeal but that might be three years but even that I was fearful after seeing the criminal justice system how rigged it was deep down I knew I was a dead man I knew that from the beginning when they when they did what they did I just felt like I had to fight do you think there's anything you could have done that would have gotten you out of all this I could have pled guilty and got a less of a sentence there's no doubt about that but what about if you just when they came to you with that Senator if you said sure we'll hook that up it no no no I I don't think that was they were still coming for no and they wanted me to they wanted me to snitch on Obama and they they arrested me at 6:00 in the morning and they that's a I read about that too in my house SWAT teams 24 member SWAT team around my house I'm the sitting governor of the fifth largest state in America I've got a security security detail of my own but if four hours later I'm in their while I'm in their custody it's good cop time and they're not being nice to me you know you're not a bad guy we hear all these tapes you're just a prod Chicago politics we think you can help us i' like you to talk about the Obama we know he want to make a deal with you stuff like that they're telling me it was clear what they wanted to do and I I said look I didn't do anything wrong and as far as I know he didn't either there's really nothing to talk about and you and then they CH their mood changed and they sent me to another facility and they put me in this little cell and uh they had me next to this angry guy that was all [ __ ] up on PCP or something he was like a raging a wild animal to send me a message you know and um they I think what they they were never going to go after Obama but what they wanted to do was they wanted to go to him and say I was willing to cooperate against Obama and then leverage that and have Obama then that tell him look just leave us alone let us get this guy keep us in office when you get sworn in on January 20th don't bring in new US attorneys
don't bring Democratic us attorneys in keep us Bush us attorneys here and uh you leave you stay out of this and we'll leave you alone that's what I think they did so it's a lot of Chess yes there's a lot of moves and counter moves and yes people are used as bonds correct they're political power centers here's the danger to the American people and to our democracy they're not supposed to be that they're supposed to do justice they're supposed to go real crimes they're not supposed to be a political power center right you know Democrats Republicans Independents Libertarians yes house members senate members the executive branch presidents yes the Supreme Court and the courts yes checks and balances foundy fathers had the wisdom to create a system like that cuz they know the corupt ability of man power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely so they defied power that's the beauty and Genius of what they did in this country they did not foresee coming out of the executive branch would be this tumor this cancer that really started picking up steam in the 1920s federal law enforcement and that it would grow and that the tactics and the methods they used to go after Al Capone or later on you know Carlos Escobar and El Chapo and people like that that they would actually use against Governors and presidents they didn't foresee that the problem is it's a practical matter because they have such power the politicians are scared shitless of them they don't want to stand up to them because they're afraid these people will Trump up [ __ ] against them and just make [ __ ] up or get something they might have may have done and made it bigger so it's everybody knows how the game is played so everybody has to play the game correct and then when you get you're the one on the wrong end of it all your friends in politics they run for the hills they abandon you and then all of a sudden they're kissing your ass the day before you arrested and the next day they're maligning the [ __ ] out of you sounds like Hollywood is that right isn't it kind of the same thing I mean that's what they do whenever anybody gets in trouble in Hollywood yeah you're right yeah yeah well that's just cowards there's a lot a lot of
cowards and a lot of people have a reason to be cowards it's fearful they're scared it's dangerous system especially the justice system it's it seems very dangerous and and this is not to malign good people because there's there's I know people I've met people in the FBI I met great people in the CIA I know them they're great people that's it's it's just what you were saying absolute power corrupts absolutely and when people get into positions of power and influence and this this chess game starts getting played they can make all sorts of rationalizations if there's no checks and balances this is why there has to be checks and balances and there has to be oversight to keep people from their own devices to keep people from their own horrible instincts that we have as human beings especially if you've done some shady [ __ ] because other people have done some shady [ __ ] and that's how everybody sort of worked their way up the ladder and then all of a sudden you get to a position we like hey you're you're going to have to do something that you really don't agree with but this is how the game is played and then next thing you know right RS in jail yeah it's like your chief of staff and your Governor's lawyer and all your friends who people have worked in with you and got rich on you their choice is I have to look at my little boy who's 3 years old and his future or do I protect try to defend my boss right of course and they make the decision understandably for their families yeah well and I think a lot of people go into whether it's politics or law enforcement or into the federal government there's a lot of people that go into with very good intentions but then you see over time they get corrupted by the environment that they're in that's right they become part of a buddy system it happens with politicians all the time you get elected back home in Austin Texas and then you go to Washington you get co-opted by the system because you're young and you don't really know or you're new and you don't know they show you the ropes and the ropes are controlled by that deep state that establishment you know of of the long-term members of congress the people in the different agencies the staffers and it's a whole different world there and it's basically them
against us that there is a deep state in state government federal government it's really almost even in law enforcement I mean especially corrupt law enforcement did you ever see that documentary what is it District 75 is that Precinct 75 I think it's the 57 the 57 is that what it is the 75 or the 57 uh is a gentleman named Mike Dow we had him on the podcast as well and you know 75 75 on first day he's a cop he watches the cops kill a guy and you know they they essentially say to him he jumped right and like he's like okay he jumped it's like one of those situations where like okay I guess this is this business that I'm a part of now I wanted to be a cop now I'm a cop yeah and then he runs with it next thing you know he's selling drugs and kidnapping people it's a [ __ ] crazy documentary he's a fun guy I mean it's obviously did terrible things went to jail but the documentary is so [ __ ] crazy what's it called the 75 right the 5'7 7 75 why can't what am I you just told me that's it that's the documentary Michael Dow yeah uh it's fantastic it's really good documentary and you know you just realize like Jesus um obviously the cocaine crisis in Miami is another great example of that and one of the best documentaries about that is um Cocaine Cowboys fantastic document I can't recommend it enough one graduating class of the police academy in Miami they all either went to jail or were murdered the entire graduate uating class that's how corrupt it was yeah it was just off the charts cocaine and money everywhere chaos and murder everywhere yeah yeah you see that here again the stuff we're talking about it's so important that this justice system gets reformed I'm so excited about the fact that Trump the people he's picking Pam Bondi he's a great person's got a good record Patel because if we don't trust the criminal justice system when you tell tell me a story about those dirty cops and I'm sure that's absolutely what they were and that those who prosecuted them were right to do it oh they definitely were they were dirty cops but what if you don't trust those prosecutors right suddenly the whole system breaks down you can't trust anything so much at stake in this I
failed to tell you what that first night was like in that first and I just should wrap it up very quickly but you know there I was in this darkness and so all alone and so hard broken so fearful and worried about my kids and my wife and what it was like for them imagining in my mind my wife comforting my daughter as if I had died cuz I kind of did I was gone they were going to grow up without their father right so all of that's going through my mind and then I I reached for the Bible you know that my wife gave me to leave for prison to take with me to prison they don't let you bring anything else in but they'll let you bring the Bible in I've always had a belief in God I always believed in prayer I was raised in the Serbian Orthodox Christian church but I never read the Bible I was just so busy trying to get ahead in life you know I had to go out and make campaign promises give speech bees kiss babies shake hands raise money I try Genesis I get stuck in Genesis so and so is beginning so and so I'll put this on this side I can't right now suddenly here I am in this deep [ __ ] dark Valley and I'm facing 14 years of this I'm so alone I'm not going to [ __ ] around with Genesis or Deuteronomy or Leviticus or any of that stuff I'm going to something right away that might give me some hope and I went to the 23rd psalm the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want and makes me lie down in Green Pastures and then I kept reading the Psalms and I know the story of David and I associate myself with him I know I get criticized and maligned by people in the media for saying I'm like David I'm not saying I'm not I'm not saying I am I'm simply saying I looked at his example and I got strength from that because he was being chased by Saul and he's in the caves for like 11 years or chasing them thinking he endured that maybe there's hope and I'd read his Psalms because they're just prayers to God is what they are from him and they were helpful to me so I kept breing and I went to Isaiah and the fiery furnace of Affliction and how adversity and hard times it's God's way of testing us it could make us stronger and better we learned through those hard lessons the fiery you know through the fire of hard times and of course then eventually the gospels and the best story of all in my mind as a
Christian is the story of Jesus and you know there he is in the Garden of Gethsemane and he's saying to God because he's so afraid because he knows what's coming what they're going to do to him and he says oh Father please lift this cup from me I mean I I get choked up just thinking about this and he says but no God no no father not my will your will then he steals himself for what he's got to face takes on all those suffering that he goes through and the humiliation everything else so I read it every day for 2,896 days and I know it in a way I never knew it before and I love it and it it brought me so much closer to God and there were moments as crazy as this sounds and I'm not running for anything so I'm not here to try to like win Christian Christian Evangelical votes or anything but there were moments years into the process not those first early years CU they were so hard but after I was there for you know six year six year seven and I'd read the Bible like that every day and I was really working out and I was reading a lot of other books and I'd get visits maybe couple times you know in the beginning it was like two or three times a year in the beginning and then as time went by it was hard for our daughters and I would encourage them not to come because they were in school and we were hopeful that we get Justice in the courts and only another few more months the appell court will come through don't come so now suddenly I'm seeing less and less of them but I'd have moments and I was lucky cuz I was in Colorado which is a beautiful place with great weather and blue skies and snowcap foothills of the Rockies that's where the prison was and I and then when it would rain there'd be rainbows I believe these are Godly things and I'd sometimes get done with a run or something and I'd walk through I'd walk that track stretching a little bit and I'd see that beautiful rain but and I can almost feel the presence of God I know it sounds like [ __ ] for people don't know that but when you you've been beaten down so much and you're so [ __ ] alone I F looked for God and I really believe I found him and I feel like I'm at a place now I'm grateful in a weird way for that experience I wish it never happened and I have bitterness still and I hate the [ __ ] that did it to me and I
know I'm not supposed to hate them I'm supposed to forgive them I'm not that good a Christian I hate the [ __ ] they belong in jail but I have to say that that experience reading the Bible that way maybe it serves a higher purpose maybe in some ways you know was it was good for me well I think you got the most out of that horrific situation in that regard right and sometimes you have to experience horrific tragedy to experience incredible love that's a weird thing to think of but I think this battle that we have constantly with good and evil and it's it's a real thing and that it's sometimes in your dark as deepest moments is when you you recognize a truth there's something there that we all every culture believes in a higher power it's very strange isn't it like almost every culture like almost every culture has some sort of belief system about a higher power there's it's something you could say you you could be very cynical and you could say that's just human beings looking for order in an orderless chaotic place place and that your creativity and your Inquisition your your your inquisitive nature rather leads you to constantly search for a daddy in the sky you could say that but I've talked to too many people that have had these sort of like you've had these breakthrough moments in life where you you you come into contact with something by opening yourself up to it and it's so cynical just to disregard that everybody wants to pretend that they're smarter than they really are it's a terrible trait that we all have and that prevents you from and especially secular people atheists people that are like acknowledged atheists prevents you from even considering the idea that there's something to this that you're not getting and your simple little mind you your your desire for order and to to look at this and go no you just live and you die well you you don't really know you should probably listen to some people that have had profound experiences because there's been a lot of them and there's been a lot of them throughout human history and to just completely dismiss them is all nonsense it's just like that's such a cynical perspective on human beings and then there's also the fact
that look I'm I'm not saying bad things haven't been done in the name of religion because they most certainly have people have been slaughtered Wars have been started people have been demonized and othered to the point where you're allowed to kill them because they believe the wrong thing it's it's not universally good but it's a scaffolding for ethics and morals that I think shape Society in a way that's not really possible with just Anarchy you know you need Law and Order you need something you believe in that's what keeps us together I mean you could be a brilliant intelligent person who's just unusually compassionate lived your whole life without religion and still be an excellent contributed to society but God the people that I've met and one of the things about coming to Texas is I meet so many avowed Christians so many so many like really proud and intelligent and vocal religious people and there's some of the nicest people like you could ever meet like a real Christian like I've met some real Christians like this uh my friend Allan who that runs a homeless like a rehabilitation Community here in Austin it's like the guy's just a real Christian I mean he lives with these people that's right he's just like really walking the wall he's not doing it for money he's not doesn't have a mega church doesn't drive a Rolls-Royce he's a regular person who really is acting like a like the Christian from the Bible like the best example of a Christian from the Bible Bible talks about false prophets because people are human nature yeah there's a lot of us that are false prophets well but I mean some of these we call them in prison jail house jesuses some of these guys oh sure you know they walk around their Bible tote their Bible and they were stealing you know and rip you off we talk about that we talked about that in terms of psychedelics the other day there's spiritual narcissism I think the same sort of spiritual narcissism that encompasses these preachers that talk in front of stadiums fill of people and fly private jats and drive roads voices that's the same sort of thing as a guru who wants to take you to the Jungle to give you drugs or you know someone who wants you to join their sex cult or someone who wants you to join their yoga
thing where no one no one works anymore and you all grow your own food and this is your Guru you know there's a [ __ ] ton of documentaries on these folks no doubt that's the false prophet it's a it's a danger it's a real danger that we have in looking for someone smarter than us it's a it's a normal pattern of behavior from tribal societies all tribal societies had the wisest person who was the leader this is the person that everybody trusted he's the guy with the most scars he knows where the food is he knows how to get the [ __ ] away from the enemies he knows how to keep order and he's reasonable in how he governs the village and they until someone overthrows him that's your guy and we have this hierarchy that we look for in everything you know we really do we we look for it in all sorts of things and if we find it in a false prophet we'll go with it there's so I bought a building out here you know um my my podcast or my uh Comedy Club is in a place called The Ritz Theater it's this beautiful theater from 1927 but before that I had bought another building that was owned by a cult it was a a building called the One World Theater I didn't buy it I was under contract for it I spent a bunch of money and got out of it because I watched the documentary on the cult and I was like oh my God it was a guy who was a gay porn star and a hypnotist who started this cult in West Hollywood and then after Waco popped off this guy had to escape from West Hollywood because they were looking for him because you know the cult awareness Network and they started you know after wakeo they're like Jesus Christ how many of these Cults are out there yeah they they they were targeting this guy so he changed his name moved to Austin and built this theater and the cult had already disbanded a bunch and my friend Ron White the comedian told me cuz he had performed it they you turned into a concert venue this theater that this guy had his cult followers build him so he could in front of them it's beautiful 300 seat theater gorgeous place and uh this is the same thing it's just a person who convinced all these other people that he had the answers and he was a hypnotist he was really good at [ __ ] with people and really good at like talking people into certain states
of mind and they all believed in him and they wasted Decades of their life that's literally in the Bible that's a false prophet that's right by the way congratulations on your magnificent success thank you very much and you're a comedian too huh yeah do a lot of different things yeah wow you know I was stuck when you were on the rise so when I came home I didn't know who you were I hope you don't kick me out of the room great no no I don't care I'm happy now that people don't know who I am when I can talk to someone they don't know who I am I'm like this is great but it wasn't long before I got home I would say within a couple of days that I got this thing called an iPhone what's this and this guy Joe Rogan had this big deal have on this podcast I said Joe who and they told me it's remarkable that's crazy so you went to jail before iPhones yeah wow what a fascinating blip in time that is if you really look at in terms of impactfulness like a like a piece of technology that completely changed the world yeah that might be one of the most that's bigger than the laptop I think I think I think it's the most impactful I think the invention of the iPhone is probably one of the most impactful things human beings have ever created not necessarily in a great way but sometimes in a great way oh yeah you know yeah no there's a lot of great things about it but the invention of the smartphone for all good or bad you missed it and that's really crazy yeah it's crazy can I go back just briefly to the spiritual end of it you go where any want just I I just want to say that look I consider myself I think I have testicular virility you know what I mean I think I can you have balls yeah I really do I know I do yeah and I have a you know just I have a certain toughness to me but I'll tell you something I wasn't strong enough to get through prison by myself I needed God and and it was that my love for my daughters and my wife I could never possibly give and I had to survive and somehow find my way home however long it might take and I had to do it in a way where I could be so strong and be constructive and actually plant seeds for a better life later on where whatever I did my little girls can see that you know God forbid when tough times come because it comes to all of us how do you deal with those
hard times do you embrace the adversity and try to turn into something good or you just give into it and so that gave me the purpose I needed in prison and I spent a lot of time not just reading the Bible but reading all kinds of books because you got time I mean you got a lot of time I read a book three times and I talked to this about this to Tucker Carlson called man search for meaning by a guy named Victor Frankle a holocaust Survivor who had gone through things a million times worse than anything I went through he lost his wife his family through genocide was at aitz and survived it but he said that the last of the human freedoms after everything's been taken from you the last of the human freedoms is our freedom to choose our own attitude in any given set of circumstances and that if you could find a why to live you could find the how and my wife was my little girls and my wife no matter how hard this was going to be I had to survive this I had to endure it and I needed to do it in a way where it would be the best possible way to do it that could help raise my daughters from afar because I didn't raise them my daughter did I mean my wife raised our children our little girls um and so that gave me real purpose and I have those moments when despair would creep in it's very natural I mean there a lot of blue moments as you can imagine I could never ever ever let myself get so down that I would not be a you know active in any given day I had to go out there and you know run those miles and lift the weights do push-ups whatever it was read those books do the stuff I would write about because I love my daughters and I'm doing it for them that was my purpose not running for govern anymore I'm not trying to be you know successful in the real world cuz I'm not in it anymore My Success I'll measure by whether or not I'm strong and tough and I'm productive cuz I'm doing this for my kids does that make sense it does do you think the experience of being in jail as horrible as it is made you a better person I'd like to think that it did I think I'm more humble I think that was never good at that that sometimes that's what bites people in the ass I always say that about Trump like that's what that's also
why he kept running even though everybody was after him like you have to be a very particular type of person that has all those legal cases thrown at him all those I mean if he lost and he lost those cases and then he lost the run for presidency he very well might wind up in jail they they can't have him at 82 years of trying again you know they they're not interested in because he became more popular when he was gone than when he was president and people sort of like towards the end of the four years of Biden had like completely rever so many of my friends me included had completely reversed how they looked at him yeah and then also a lot of it was getting exposed to watching how this propaganda machine marches in Step all throughout the media with everything you know me in particular having to turn on me during the covid years for being someone who got healthy without taking the vaccine and they wanted to get me removed from Spotify I'm like this is crazy this is wild to watch and that was you know minor league stuff compared to what happened to him and certainly compared to what happened to you but just I think people are less likely to believe mainstream narratives now and we're so fortunate we have other ways like Tucker show where I saw you like things that aren't approved you know I mean look when Tucker was on Fox News I'm sure there was a lot of things that he wanted to cover that he couldn't like there was no way when he was on Fox News he could have interviewed that guy who says blue Obama right there's no [ __ ] way this guy Tucker Carlson is such a wild boy he he's got a guy on for like how long was that podcast find out how long the Tucker Carlson podcast was with the guy who claims he blew Obama cuz just even being able to sustain a conversation with a guy who wants to talk about smoke and crack and blowing Obama how many how many minutes can you do I want to know like I'd I'd be hard pressed to think I could squeeze an hour out of that guy like what the [ __ ] are you g to talk about how long is that podcast 42 minutes all right he hung in there as long as he could but my point is I'm and again I'm not standing up for him having that guy on I'm not I'm not saying that was a good thing that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is
that's what he wanted to do you know I watched a little of it that's what Tucker so that's Tucker with no one telling him what to do mhm the Tucker Carlson show he does whatever he wants he interviews whoever he wants he comes up with the questions he wants he has real conversations that didn't [ __ ] exist before and now that it does does exist and a guy like Tucker who was the number one guy in news to begin with now he's independent along with independent journalists like Michael shellenberger and Matt taibe and right Barry Weiss and Glenn Greenwald you all these people that are honest and you know they're honest they're always honest they're always giving you the full version of the truth and it spread like wildfire and then you look at the narratives that you see in mainstream media and like you're leaving so much out you don't you're not talking about that you're not talking about what why people were upset you're not talking about what started it you're not talking about the government intervention that was behind it all in the first place that was a planned organization and they leave out everything because that's not what they're supposed to do what they're supposed to do is sell as many stories as they can but stay within a very very confined narrative exactly right and most of that narrative is heavily Progressive left leaning until that's not popular anymore and when that falls out of favor folks when that becomes non-profitable they're going to go the other way the country will move more right it'll be more right in the media even if it becomes profitable well that's why what you're doing I'm not here to kiss your ass but I am grateful for being on your show it's very nice of you to have me so I can talk about my stuff but no this is what you're doing and Tucker Carlson and so many of you podcasters who are out there offering another place for people to get information in the free exchange of ideas in a free country that cherishes Free Speech supposedly but no longer does and I think most people do people do but the government and the power centers and the it's just when it's not convenient for them and the the fact that there's these rules we we should have rules that that apply across the board if we want to
progress as society and one of those rules the most important rule the reason why it's the first amendment you have to be able to talk about things you have to be you're going to get things wrong you're going to be poorly informed you're going to have biased opinions hopefully someone who is more informed has a more objective and more honest opinion more accurate opinion and then hopefully you're strong enough that that resonates with you and you can put your ego beside you and go you know what this is me wanting to be right this is my ego the the correct thing is what these people are saying let me tell you why I thought what I thought and how I was wrong and apologize and if we that doesn't mean you're weak it just means you like everyone else in the world sometimes is wrong about things like I have a friend him M I don't want to say his name very very nice guy super one of the smartest [ __ ] people I know and I have these fascinating conversations with him and then one day he tried to explain to me why something works in the UFC why something else doesn't work anymore I go stop cuz stop you're going to ruin my opinion of you you don't know what the [ __ ] you're talking about don't say this don't say this to me I've been working for the UFC for 25 [ __ ] years don't say this to me you don't know what you're saying you're saying nonsense he's like really I go yes this is total nonsense here's an example why it's nonsense this guy violates that rule no one can you can't tell there there's a specific group of movements that are all designed to [ __ ] people up any one pattern can be successful given the individual and his his abilities and his competency in whatever skill set that is there's no one skill set you can't run around saying one skill set Trump's all it doesn't work like that anymore listen that's interesting this is brilliant people so it's a brilliant person talking out of his ass because they're people they have their own prejudices and their biases right also they like to be smart smart people like to be smart exactly they want to be the smartest guy World always they're smart about some things what is that there's a like a a term for that where like really intelligent people erroneously believe they're intelligent about everything conceded ignorance it's like that yeah
right Socrates called it conceited ignorance and by the way they made him triat the hemlock and kill him because supposedly he was corrupting the Youth of Athens in Greece he probably was too he was but he was also challenging confessional thinking yes of course which is what we're talking about in a free Society yes Dunning Krueger effect that's right okay cognitive bias with individuals with high competence in one area overestimate their knowledge and abilities in unrelated Fields yeah it's exactly what it is well I I don't have that problem it's super common with really good people that are very good at things people that are very good at things any one thing like if you're a wizard at basketball you probably think you're way better at playing pool and you really are you know there's there's a lot like I'm the [ __ ] man you know like if you're a guy who just cracking home runs every day and and someone wants to play ping pong like [ __ ] I'll figure this ping pong [ __ ] out in about five minutes and then I'll start [ __ ] you up and it's just not true you know and there's a lot of people that are really smart people unfortunately and this happens with tough people too tough people want to pretend they're the only tough person they all want to pretend that everybody has this weird thing where they think they're different than everybody else interesting and that's what leads them to be Champions but that is also what makes it incredibly difficult to come back from a devastating loss for some of these guys so if they fight a guy and you know they they've been the [ __ ] man for years and all a sudden they're in there with this guy like oh my God I'm getting hurt right now I'm getting hurt and I'm probably going to get stopped and you see it in their eyes you see that they can't believe it's happening they never envisioned a time where this guy's going to knock them out and then they're against the cage and you see them getting lit up and you in my mind I'm seeing the sparks in in front of their eyes cuz when you get hit you see Sparks and if you get hit with like a big shot like you can't you don't know where anybody is for a couple seconds your legs aren't working and I'm seeing it in this person that thought they were so good they could fight this
other person they didn't see it the way everybody else saw it you know they didn't see that they were past their prime or they didn't see that this is a bigger weight class or whatever the the variables are that lead to like a devastating loss yeah like ran and Hearns in the 80s that they mismatched the size and Hearns knocked him out in like the second round well yeah that was Tommy Hearns in his prime man because you got to realize Duran did Go full 12 with Haggler right when Haggler was in his prime right but Haggler had a respect for Duran that I think almost was unfortunate cuz like H Duran for people no it wasn't just that Haggler in his mind dur was like one of the Legends rightfully so I mean the the quitting with sugar a Leonard was horrible and it ruined his reputation but if you could just take that fight away yeah and look at every other look at his body work what he did to Ken Buchanan when he was a lightweight right people don't even understand Roberto Durant started out his career at 135 pounds went up and won the middleweight title you have to understand how [ __ ] crazy Roberto Durant was when he beat Dave Moore was that super super welterweight it was either 154 or he Dave Moore who was in his [ __ ] Prime that was in LA wasn't it I don't know where it was I remember I watched on TV June 20th 1980 Leonard in Montreal do you remember that yeah sure I love Durant I met Durant once when he was training for that DAV Moore fight in LA and uh what you're saying about martial arts and boxing there's so many life lessons experiencing that in the ring I'm not here to say that I'm some great fighter like you were but I fought the Golden Gloves when I was in high school first time I ever got my name the Chicago Tribune that's amazing last time they ever saying nice about me see that's a hard thing to do you learn about life cuz you're no teammates it's just you in there it's if you won the Golden Gloves that is a very I didn't win the Golden Gloves I fought in the Golden Gloves even fighting even just getting into the ring Having the courage in your [ __ ] underwear to step through those ropes with those stupid shoes on and big pads over your head and you realize you're going just throw your
hands at some other dude trying to KO you yeah exactly the other dude's trying to kick your ass it's such a weird feeling how old were you when you started I started fighting when I was 15 and what was the what got you interested well I got picked on a lot I was a small kid and I was always moving we were always moving to new neighborhoods and we had moved to this new neighborhood nobody really hurt me like I be real clear about that I got pushed around a little bit like teenage boys doe to each other but I didn't like it I didn't like it at all and so I was like look I'm not growing so it's like what do I what can I do to to stop this fear that I have of conflict I was terrified of like conflict with kids cuz I did not know what to do I had no training no martial arts the only sport I'd ever played was baseball and so uh I started doing martial arts and I became obsessed was it Taekwondo yeah well I first started with karate okay I was going to this place called EP Esposito karate in Newton Massachusetts it might still be there he was like the town Legend he was this black belt guy who was awesome who uh taught this uh like very popular school but I could it was hard for me to get there I didn't have a car I was a kid and so I would have to take a bus and walk a mile it was like too much especially in the winter but I found this tawo place in Kenwood square and Kenmore Square rather in Boston and uh the tea would go right to it i' would only have to walk a mile to get to the tea and then I'd get on the tea so I would do that every day is public transportation exactly so every day I'd walk a mile nice get on the tea after school after school soon as school's over I'd go right from my house I'd grab my gym bag and I'd go to the gym I went every day great so then like when I was in high school I was traveled around the country fighting in tournaments was the weirdest [ __ ] it's like I went from being terrified of fighting to like fighting all the time like all the time we were flying to Ohio and you know I couldn't drive I was 16 at the time so I was with all these other guys and there most of them were like grown men and we would all go and I was competing as a grown man I was competing as a grown man I was like 15 what weight class were you I start I won the state championship the
first year at 140 but it was way too hard for me to waake the and I was doing it like a [ __ ] the guys who do it today they really know what they were doing I just stopped eating right I just stopped eating and stopped drinking water and then I'd get in the shower and I'd like shadow box in the shower when it was you know steaming hot so I was trying to like drain my body of weight and then I'd have to fight that day by the way you'd have to fight the day and you're so tired you're yeah yeah so I won the states one year doing that but I realized like I can't do this anymore and I also tried being a vegetarian I tried a bunch of stuff and then the next year when I was 18 then I started eating then I then I went up to 150 I think it was 55 or 54 I forget what the weight class was but it was 50 something I went up to that and then I got we better I was much much much better what was a typical training day like hours so when would you do it the whole day it was all day I would the moment I would get home from school yeah I'd usually eat something real quick grab my bag G like a banana what would you have I didn't eat good I was [ __ ] I would eat a bowl of cereal I was a kid and I didn't have a lot of guidance my parents both worked so I you know fend for myself whatever's in the house I'd eat that and then I'd get on the tea and head out and go train and so so how much time between that you when you ate and when you actually got working out an hour yeah so you got while you were traveling you're digesting yeah cuz it takes like an hour to get there at least it takes you know takes like a half hour to walk and then 20 minutes on the train you got a trainer there you got a coach you got other guys well yeah yeah and then I started teaching that was a big thing too but what what would you do what would your workout be would you well you would always start up you would but mostly would start with technique right you so so most of the time you would start with just straight kicks you would just practice kicks H and you're also warming up so you go through a whole warmup routine you'd practice your kicks like mostly just for form so you'd practice kicks and then you would practice kicks with spe they would call it like a one step like you would come at me with a thing and I would practice
stepping to the side and countering you'd practice that way then you would do sparring and we sparred almost every night and some of the sparring was [ __ ] horrific we just Spar like a rounds yeah three minute rounds three minute rounds generally yeah and you're sparring you know all these people that are bigger than you stronger than you and I was a kid right right and then you would heavy bag work heavy bag work was always at the end when you were exhausted you'd work on your power and then there were some days we just came in and only worked on technique you didn't Spar those are good days you could just only work on your power like heavy bag work drills speed speed drills Focus Ms like You' have these uh pads these paddles that people hold and you throw kicks at the paddles and you just all working on like making it so it just has no Telegraph it just goes off you're just you're trying to have it just go go off like a switch and so you're just constantly drilling it as if you're competing and then you go on the weekends you go compete somewhere did you run at all do any road work or push I ran I did but you know honestly I hated running and I spent so much time training already that my endurance was fine and I would do rounds in the bag I always felt like rounds in the bag were better endurance anyway because that was like what you were going to actually do no doubt other than getting hit course like but would you do like ab work and stuff work your core get that strong um yeah I would do sit-ups and I would do push-ups and I do chinups and [ __ ] like that but not a whole lot of things most most of it was heavy bag training and and sparring that alone is a great workout it was it was like quite a while before they started accepting even the idea of weightlifting you know a lot of like for a long time boxers we were just talking about this the other day Bert saurin from sain X and he was saying that like boxers would were told that if they lifted weights they would be really stiff right until rander Holyfield came around and Evander Holyfield kind of changed everybody's opinion of it because he lifted weights moved up to heavyweight from cruiserweight it was awesome yeah and every was like hey maybe maybe weightlifting just makes you stronger
and then now they all do it it's kind of funny like almost all those guys have some kind of strength and conditioning routine now yeah yeah yeah so what do you do now what do you to stay in shape you're you're addicted to it because it's your lifestyle well I think I I think I'm addicted to it for mental health reasons too me too I know what you mean I think doing something difficult is very important especially if it's like self-administered do something really hard and it makes the rest of your day easier and it also it's just you know Andrew huberman has talked about this there's a specific area of your brain and when you do uncomfortable things that area of your brain grows and when you're sedentary and you're not doing [ __ ] that area of your brain actually shrinks so it it enhances your ability to do difficult things by doing difficult things regularly so it's not just like oh I'm addicted to it it's like no it's a vitamin like you should do it like you should do it it makes your brain more resilient like doing hard things like oh I like to just lay on the couch [ __ ] I do too everybody does everybody likes to lay on the couch that's not the point the point is it's not good for you listen what you're saying is so true again back to my prison experience among the things that helped me get through it was that emotional pain and the heartache that you're feeling yeah I found by throwing myself into hard physical exercise really helped me get soften that lessen that emotional pain that heartache and it and just made me feel less hurting I hurt less by forcing physical pain on myself by running 10 miles for example on my first Christmas Day because it was so brutal emotionally that I had to be at this [ __ ] hole place for Christmas you know what I mean yeah so what you're saying makes perfect sense to me and and uh obviously your situation was very extreme and you know you needed relief in any way you could find it through Jesus Through exercise through everything through constantly being work but for the just any person listening to this do something hard just make yourself do something hard all time just trust me you'll feel better your life will work better you'll be able to handle things better you'll be able to
handle disputes better conversations better interactions with people better do something hard you'll have more love in your heart less hate yes the friendliest people that I know are all killers they're all killers that's interesting the friendliest people that I know if you met like some of my friends that fight in the UFC if you didn't know who they were and you met them like they're the most lovely people like Daniel Cormier my uh he's the he does color commentary with me so it's me and Daniel and this guy John anik we're all very tight Daniel was a middleweight champ excuse me light heavyweight champion and heavyweight champion he was a two Division World Champion and was dominating in a weight class that in Strike Force he didn't even belong in heavyweight he's like 5'11 he's not a big guy he's just such an insane tank of a human being and his wrestling was so insane and his just will was so insane who dominated dominated two different divisions he was a killer the nicest [ __ ] guy you'd ever meet in your life if you're hanging around with him you would never believe you would never believe that he could pick up anybody in the room and smash him on their head you would never believe it you would think he's just a sweetheart of a guy M so because of my limited very limited boxing experience I got to know boxers and recently I was I uh helped Tommy Hearns helped Trump get Tommy hearn's endorsement and he Hearns spent some time with me in Chicago the nicest guy this guy was such a [ __ ] badass fighter as you know oh my god Tommy Hearns in his prime was an assassin yeah but on a personal level gentle God-fearing soft-hearted what you're describing with the guys that you know and a lot of the guys I knew from the boxing World in Chicago a lot like that the guys who had a lot more success than me because I was just a a best I was a middling guy who did it for one year um but I know exactly what you're saying can I say something about tough guys and Trump real quick sure to go back to Trump because the point you made I thought was really interesting that you got to have that kind of self-love to endure all of that [ __ ] they threw at him and you got to well you have to be a psycho and he's kind of a psycho you have to be the type of person that
tweets I hate Taylor Swift like it's just Maniac mindset but without that you don't you don't keep fighting you like they tried to kill him twice that's right you know and one of them nicked his ear and there was literally people online doubting whether or not he got hit you see blood coming off of his ear people were saying it was staged so that he could avoid prison I mean I I heard prominent people say these things yes some prominent woman tweeted that he's only he he got shot because he's trying to get out of jail out of going to jail like this is like I don't care what you were trying to say that's such an insane take on a former president who's running for office again being assassinated you should be against assassinations assassinations are horrible it's against the law it's one of the most horrific no matter what did he do he he paid off a lady is that what he did you think he should get shot in the [ __ ] head for that like what did he do what did he do that you think he deserves getting shot in the [ __ ] head yeah and this complete lack of appreciation that the whole thing is rigged the whole thing is corrupt that's not good for you either it's not good for anybody just CU you label yourself a liberal you can't watch them throw the constitution in the toilet you can't just sit back and watch them CU yeah it's good they're doing it against Trump oh you got shot good are you [ __ ] crazy people getting shot is good how are the how are the love people the progressive people the people on the left how are they like I wish that guy didn't miss how are they doing that because that's how lost we've gotten with this mainstream political narrative they feed you what you're supposed to think and you never have the ability to think it out through for yourself it's like groups of people just going through the information and coming to a conclusion as a country instead you have to to be on [ __ ] a car like in prison and you got to be with this gr a car it's basically the same thing you're in a gang you're just not in the Aryan race you're in the [ __ ] leftwing progressives and they'll [ __ ] turn on you they all turn on each other they do it all the time because they're all just scrambling for stature Joe can I just say one more thing about Trump on this
subject self-love personal toughness for sure but can I say something else this man I honestly believe this truly loves America he isn't just doing this because he wants to be the president he's already been that and he's got all this great success how do you live the life he's lived give that up go into that [ __ ] hole business I was in that I know all too well to have to deal with all these phony [ __ ] politicians and suffer these [ __ ] these duplicitous Hypocrites in your party and the other party which is what most of them are there's a lot of good ones but more of them than not are full of [ __ ] they're weak they're cowardly and they go along with the kind of trends that you were just talking about when you go through something Trump went through and you keep doing it it's more than just his own self-love I truly believe he has a genuine Abiding Love in his country I think in his mind I'm guessing I'm putting this in his mind kind of thinking about my own kind of experience he's saying to himself I'm going to if I have to go down fighting for my country I'm going to do it and I think that helps motivate him get stronger and tougher when he is convinced that it isn't just about his ego or himself but it's something higher and bigger like what America is supposed to be does that make any sense it does and anybody that would push back against that I would say listen before you even form an opinion I want you to think about what happened when he got shot so he gets tackled he's got blood coming out of his ear guns grow off guy behind him's dead guy got shot protecting his family he stands up and he throws his hand up in the air and says fight fight fight yeah that's not fake right like that's that's in the moment after getting hit by a bullet covered by the Secret Service guy behind him's dead how many gunshots had rung off nine shots between the snipers killing him him shooting I think he shot three times yeah right and then he fight fight fight that's in the moment that's right that's in the moment yes right everybody loves America including people that aren't In America which is why so many people are sneaking over to America okay there's not a whole lot of people sneaking into Libya everybody loves America it's [ __ ] but it's the [ __ ] because of personal freedom and because
you can be somebody here who you are you can be Joe Rogan a kid who's 15 getting on the public transportation to do kicking and martial arts and become what you are you can be me you could be anything you want you could be a doctor a lawyer an author a painter a musician you can do anything you want no other place in the world offers it like this place does and this place celebrates that's right I have a friend of mine from the UK when he moved over here one of the first things he said was in the in England they' try to push you down if you try to get ahead like they'll try to dismiss you it's like tall poppy syndrome they don't want anybody Rising above everybody else very discouraging well that's the Socialist mindset that's the new Democratic party today it isn't about like you celebrating somebody else's success and saying Hey I want to be like him or that guy's success has actually created more opportunities for me to be better off than what I am now it's instead pull him down so we can make everybody equal it's generally very energetic people who don't have any ambition so they have all this energy and they put their energy into this nonsense instead of like sorting your life out and pursuing something for yourself there should be this is this is how it should all work everybody should have an equal opportunity to be educated and to pursue their dreams but we're not going to have equality of effort it's not going to exist okay I can't tell you to do what I do but I'll tell you what I do and you could either listen and pay attention you could say oh look at all the effectiveness look at how he's been able to do so many different things how is that possible well it's all simple it's all just hard work not everybody wants to do that so if you want a quality of outcome and you don't have a quality of effort then you have tyranny cuz then you have people who are a bunch of energetic people who don't have a lot of ambition and they don't have any talent and they want to control people and they don't like when people achieve a higher Social Status than them or economic stat they get angry why not me H there's a lot of that that's a part of what the whole appeal to socialism of course there's like the beautiful appeal that like there's a lot of things that
are socialist in this world that are great like the fire department is essentially a socialist establishment right we all pay for the fire department we all agree that the fire department should act immediately when there's a fire we're all pay into it and it's great we could have other things like that too that should be how education is that should probably be how the police force is that's all great but as soon as you want a quality of outcome you're ignoring a quality of effort right it's of course some people are born rich of course it's not fair of course some people are born in broken homes and it's harder for them of course the [ __ ] game's rigged it's not fair right but everybody even given the worst of circumstances it's they're least not stopped from pursuing dreams you see in my life experience what I've learned the fun part really more of the fun part is the journey less so the destination when I look back on the success I've had in different places in life like being the governor of Illinois not so easy yeah it was nice to be that and have that power and be able to do it for serve good purposes but it was more fun actually trying to get there working hard and overcoming the obstacles the quest yeah and the competition of it all right the quest in any aspect of life I think it's frankly embrace the quest and if you love what you're doing you pursue what you love success will ensue you don't have to you don't have to chase success just be great at what you do hopefully there's no hold fast rules but hopefully you know will come yeah well said but even if you don't have success the fact that you gave your best at something should be success a version of success that you can be happy with well for sure at least you learn from that and maybe you could apply those lessons to other things it's like it's not like there's an end to this and everybody wants to look at it like there's some sort of a Finish Line I'm telling you it's not real there's no Finish Line it doesn't exist you should just enjoy this moment and enjoy the whole process of whatever you're trying to do in life because there's never going to be a time where you're like I did it it's over that's not real I'm here to tell you someone who's had the number one podcast for like six years or something like that
like it's it's not real there's no end there's no like I made it it doesn't exist and if it does exist you're missing out on the whole point the point is you're supposed to be getting better all the time at everything you do yeah that's right it's a constant thing and physically there's going to come a point time when you can't really get better at things cuz you're getting old but you can still do it mentally you can still learn more you can still pursue hobbies and interests and dreams and things that stimulate you and work towards stuff it's a better way to live your life and you know some people never get a chance to understand that and you you go through your whole life and maybe you're following the guru who's the gay porn star and the you know and then all a sudden you realize like I've wasted my experience here I've got I haven't learned from it I haven't grown from it I don't have anything to show for all my time here I've just been making mistake after mistake and I never really figured out how to control my mind and I never really figured out how to discipline myself into action and and here I am never figured out puzzles and here I am [ __ ] you know and those are the people that want equality of outcome those are the people who want Equity those are the people that want to shut all the look there's a lot of hedge fund people that are pretty creepy there's a lot of billionaires that are doing a lot ofed of course not toy yeah I mean for sure we should keep an eye on people want to change the weather for sure but at the end of the day we're all just supposed to be human beings with an opportunity to try to succeed it doesn't mean everybody's going to succeed that's that's what's so crazy about this open-ended agreement you have with life you don't know what's coming up you don't want know what's next it's just like how do you respond to it when it happens and for you it's one of the most difficult things that a person could go through and especially CU you feel you were innocent no yeah and so I have purpose in life at this stage you know they took everything from me they you know they passed laws saying I can't run for anything in Illinois believe it or not just me it's unconstitutional I you could probably run in Vegas and win you
could be the king of Vegas I Could the irony is it's a good place I I hear they would love you you could totally be the king of Vegas but you know I could I have a new beginning all a lot of my friends are retired now you know and they're they're retired and that's fine but I'm excited about this New Beginning I've had it's I'm rebuilding for president yeah the AR is I could run for federal office so I could run for president of the United States but I can't run for Alderman in the city of Chicago imagine that damn you're missing out on an awesome gig yeah wow yeah that's crazy but I have something to get up every day at and chase you know I'm lucky that way you have any desire to be in politics anymore is it just too gross or what how do you how do you think about it now my wife who is a remarkable person I mean she's if I think about all these different Heroes that I've known what that I've read about in history books I think about my wife in her quiet way her heroism how she kept our home you know raised our daughters they're both good kids our daughters my older daughter Amy is a therapist good education she would like me to advocate for the puppy protection act I told her I'd try to get it on what's the puppy protection act protects puppies We Love Dogs something to have your listeners consider the puppy protection how does it protect puppies I don't know but it's got to be good I haven't didn't read well anything that protects pupp but to me that sounds like the Patriot Act well it's got to be good you're right I Bernie Sanders was right on that he was the only one who voted against that I'm looking at him when that happened cuz I was with him in Congress then well they named it the Patriot Act how are you going to say no to that but like you name it the puppy protection act you know like he's got a good chance of passing with a name like that what's in there and her younger daughter she's uh she's a big Taylor Swift and a Swifty they both are but they're good kids they're Honest Kids they do good in school like their mother she raised them great without a father and uh they've suffered through the politics in my career and so public and the name is not a common name bovich there's just not a lot of us here there are in Serbia
but not in America so everybody knows that who their dad is you know in the political con context so my wife Patty you you'll find this interesting two days after I was arrested which was the 9th of December 2008 the Thursday of that week Vegas was betting they were taking bets what are the odds the first lady of Illinois is going to leave the governor of Illinois after he just got arrested oh Jesus and it was 9 to1 she was going to leave wow and she not only defied those odds but she defied the stats which is could she bet on it looking back we should have 100% I know oh my goodness you made so much money just like empty your bank accounts cross let's go champ it crossed my mind actually but would that be illegal maybe they put you back in jail for that that's what prevented me from even pursuing that they might criminalize that yeah yeah it's a good question but when a guy's in prison for for more than four years especially when he has a long time in prison in more than 90% of the cases the wife or the significant other I'm sure leaves yeah so Patty defied all the odds she's made it abundantly clear if I ever run for office again I'm doing that with my second wife you don't have to you know in this day and age have you what are you going to do other than this book well I do different work I do some business stuff I'm I try to I'm actually trying to do some public Awareness on issues that are important like some Criminal Justice Reform stuff because I've learned the hard way how just unjustice system is and there is a bias in the criminal justice system that disproportionately has impacted the black community and it a grossly unfair way have you ever seen any of my podcasts that I've done with Josh Dubin no but I'm GNA tell me about that that's Criminal Justice Reform yes that's his main uh objective and just through the podcast that we've done multiple people have been released yeah see that's very he's always highlighting these like [ __ ] up cases where people were innocent and like massive corruption in the prosecutor's office like yeah you hear about these things they're so heartbreaking like you you just can't believe that someone would be willing to have people go to jail for 25 to life for something that they know is a lie right but you see it over and over
and over again right the more common thing Joe is the over sentencing part of it those eight years in prison I mean the overwhelming number of the guys I was with they did it they were guilty the prosecutors got it right what they got wrong was these sentences are ridiculously unfair and wrong and they don't they're not they don't match up and you got a nonviolent offender who first time did something wrong whether it's a bank robbery or a drug offense or whatever it might be and they're given these guys 15 20 25 years because they have these one-size fits off sentencing guidelines that the politicians pass but every case is different every person's different their backgrounds are different their cause reasons for doing things they're different so the system's broken in the sense that they don't Pro take into account other considerations than just these like formulas they follow and so as a result you got these people disproportionally black but not exclusively who are doing these long sentences for firsttime offenses Trump pardon a woman named Alice Marie Johnson firsttime nonviolent offender drugs they gave her a life sentence probably a lot of drugs a life sentence and after 20 years Trump pulled her out saved her and a lot of this came from the 1994 crime bill that Joe Biden sponsored and Bill Clinton passed the Democrats did this the black community yeah so I think I I do some of that and then I my father came from Serbia and I I'd like to try to do what I can to raise public awareness about the place of Serbia in the Balkans because it's the country that we bombed in 1999 the United States and NATO bombed Serbia without the United Nations approval the way Russia's invaded Ukraine and Serb why did we bomb Serbia because they were trying to force the Serbian government to give up a part of their country Kosovo give it up that' be like they know bomb threatening to bomb us to say give up Texas to Mexico and the Serbian government said we're not going to do it and so the United States decided to bomb them if they didn't sign an agreement that was made in France called the ralle agreement Jes that would have put it up to a referendum now Co really that simple it there's more there more to everything but the the complication layout is the
geopolitics of Europe and the Middle East because serbes in the Balkans is sort of a gateway to the Middle East it's in Europe but it's a gateway to the Middle East and a lot of the political Dynamics internationally are at play there but the serbs and the Serbian people were allies the with the United States in both world wars they love America they want to improve relations with America today after that we bombed them Clinton administration did that took that part of their country away what did they bomb they bombed Belgrade they bombed all the big cities they just indiscriminantly bomb the cities do they bomb military bases like the electrical grid they bomb military bases this was May of 19 99 and I went I was a young Congressman there I was the only Serb serbs are a small group in the United States and they don't have any political clout but Jesse Jackson the Reverend Jackson and I went there because three American soldiers were taken prisoner by the serbs during the war and no one knew what was going on with those those soldiers and so Reverend Jackson had this stature and he was close to Clinton and he went there I went there because I speak the language cuz my father came from that country country and I was able to assist him in getting the release of the three soldiers this was the mosovich Govern government at the time um and we got the soldiers home but what I what I like to talk about with regard to Serbia is it's a it's a country in the Balkans that follows a judeo-christian tradition it's very much like Israel in the sense that it's in a place where they they're standing up for those sorts of things and the serbs have felt very betrayed by the United States for choosing to be on the side of countries that were with the access and with the Nazis in World War II and those Wars down in the Balkans and throughout Europe are Wars of ethnic cleansing all the sides do it there's no one side that you know is uh Crystal Clean on those issues they're fighting for borders and and they're fighting for villages and places where historically one group claims they had a claim to and another group claims they had a claim to so these are complicated issues but the United stes decided to pick sides and forc this country to give up a part of their country with a lot of significant religious monuments there and this
government that's there today very much wants to reopen relations with the United States and have better relations it's a growing economy they're doing very well economically because they're good hardworking people and it's interesting in a poll recently of European countries um in this presidential election Trump versus uh Kamala Harris the Serbian people had the highest support of trump something like 59% of the Serbian populace supported Trump in the last election better than any other European country and so whatever I can do to be helpful to my you know the place my father came from I'm American Born my mother was American Born sounds like you're bucking for an ambassador to Serbia position oh no I'm not no what if he gave it to you would you take it unlikely that I oh come on no unlikely I would take it come on no unlikely come on fella no only if he only if he said to me look I really need you which he won't do he's sit you down with a Burger King no he's in the big Mach right is in McDonald's he likes McDonald's yeah sit you down he likes McDonald's um but there's a new opportunity with Trump and his administration to rethink sort of our policy and some of those old relationships you no you understand politics far more than most what difficulties do they face in implementing real change so there's all these ideas the Doge idea the department of government efficiency you know RFK taking over HHS right Health and Human Services is that it is um and so then cash Patel the FBI telsey gabard what is her she's the Director of National Intelligence yeah that's a huge huge huge position yes so they all have these ideas to eliminate corruption or at least mitigate it and root out all the Bad actors and find out what weren't wrong right what what's in the way of that what would stop them from being able to do all that you're talking about an almost immovable object you're talking about the Deep State you're talking about entrenched interests within government and outside of government you're talking about what I call the political industrial complex it exists in Washington it exists in state governments like in Springfield Illinois it's the usual people and the two parties are split on some issues but
they play the game within certain parameters and if somebody wants to think outside the box and challenge that and actually try to shake that up and change the priorities of how it operates frankly to actually benefit the people more because the mindset there and I know this because I was a congressman for six years and I was a governor for six years the mindset isn't what we can do for the people back home the mindset really is what the people back home can do for us and for all the different special interest groups that operate and are lunching up on this system this is very real it's very real in every part of government it's very real in the military industrial complex which is something Tulsa Gabbert and uh hex and the others who if they get their positions are going to be addressing the weaponized Department of Justice very real I'm a Living testament to that and so is Trump very real the bureaucracy that's entrenched that you have a hard time moving these government employees many of whom now are are even going to the office they're working from home they are entrenched they're hard to move so this is going to be real hard it's going to be constant War they're going to fight back and they're going to keep trying to do to Trump what they've been doing and I think the the opportunity for the Trump Administration for president Trump is the first six to six months to a year because this time he has a bit of a honeymoon with the voters he didn't get that in 2016 but this time he has it he's got winded his back because that was a mandate happy that he won yeah it was a mandate he's got that but he's going to get no honeymoon from the Democrats and traditionally presidents get even the other party will give them the first three to six months before they start pissing all over them you know what I mean right Trump and L are the only two presidents who never got a honeymoon in Lincoln's case the southern state suceeded and left Trump wasn't quite that bad but no one's been treated as a new president is terribly As Trump has been treated by the Democrats in Washington because he's a real threat to change things and he's a guy who's actually trying to keep his promises and these appointments they're very different they're very unusual but they show he learned the lesson that you
can't trust those Washington insiders because they'll infiltrate your government and they'll be the ones who will try to like not carry out your orders you know what you really can't trust yeah the people who make the polls that's right those [ __ ] people are they might as well be psychics they might as well be that person with the neon sign that's reading cards yeah you guys were so off that it it was so wild cuz people were so emboldened by them being so off you know I'm sure you've seen a lot of these uh hilarious videos of Democrats who are absolutely sure she was going to win we're going to win this and they're all fired up and cocky and hooting and hollering and making fun of people and then bam you see this Landslide I'm pretty good at patting myself on the back I was in that business so I'm going to Pat myself on the back I called it I think I was in Tucker and even before that I was saying trouble's going to sweep all the Battleground States but I thought it was going to be a lot closer because I thought you know until she kept making blunders like she if she just never did any interviews and just only did speeches like that first one that she did that first one she did like have you got something something to say to me say it to my face the whole place goes nuts and you're like whoa like she was young and energetic in comparison to him like oh my God and then they all got behind her and the you see the wind behind the sails of the media they were all moving and March step they were all marching together they were all telling us she's the best she's number one she's going to fix it and I thought it was working I really did I was like this might work yeah which is I'm I was fascinated to see I was fascinated to see the whole machine turn and support of her the people that had mocked her approval ratings just 6 months ago they're making fun of her and how she's largely been quiet and and then all of a sudden she's our answer yeah that was propaganda it was wild yeah it was wild they were propping her up it was really thin they they did that with Obama they got away with it then they propped this guy up to be this demig gu that he's not did you see Jill Biden uh dunking on her in that speech today was it today I think it was
yesterday she was talking about Jo is that the one oh my God it's amazing Jill Biden like subtly does a comma Harris impression and the audience knows it and the audience starts laughing yeah which is just like what a I want to be a fly on the wall I would have loved to see how that like it's essentially a coup went down that's right that's right is the first time ever someone who didn't get elected through a primary is somehow or another the representative for the Democratic party it's kind of dangerous if you really think about it in that regard it's kind of dangerous right and it's lies it's based on lies not the of the people it's not the will of the people and they're they're just lying to you lying to you they're hoping that your compliance that you showed through covid and everything else they're hoping that's going to go along with this and you're just you're not going to stand up and go hey why don't you have a primary you know what about Shapiro what about what all all these different people what about them running let's see what they're solutions to these things are she's already said she's not going to do anything different like this is kind of crazy like what what are we doing right they took away the rights of the people and the Democratic voters to choose their nominee did you see there's this the back crazy video of this poor girl she's like hysteric and she's talking to KL Harris and KL Harris is talking to her and she's like don't worry we're going to win we're going to win and she's like saying this to this poor girl like a college girl was like full of anxiety and all freaked out and just I just get so upset when I watch that because like who what what got in your head that got you thinking that some horrific end to women's rights is coming well what what happened I'll tell you what happened you've been lied to over and over again by The Establishment Democrat Party and their allies in the media that that was a that's a very serious threat and my daughters are fearful of some of this and that Donald Trump Trump is this rotten guy and he's not those things they've been demonizing him for so long and this is on purpose this is part of the political strategy and eventually most of the people saw through it and you don't give yourself enough credit but when you had Trump on
here and then you eventually made your decision you swayed a lot of people and made a real difference in that election so thank you for that because I think that's part of Saving America before America could become great again which is a good thing isn't it why wouldn't America want to be great again well it certainly should be I mean it's all and it is great isn't it why do the Democrats seem to think America's not so great we've had a lot of problems there's wrongs in our history of course and the original sin of slavery Jim Crow and segregation and the treatment of black people in America that's all very real they've been screwed but spite of it all this is a country that offers the opportunity we talked about and corrects those mistakes the problem I think in some respects today with the Democrat Party is now it's a question of reversing it's no longer let's judge people but not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character now it's let's overcorrect let's overcorrect exactly I think it's a cult I really do and uh I think the Republicans didn't do themselves any uh Justice by reversing roie Wade because I think wanting that reversed is what put this fear in everyone that you're coming after women's reproductive rights that that men based on religious ideals are going to tell women what to do with their bodies that's if that didn't happen I think it would have been an even bigger victory for Trump right because I think that was one of the most important subjects when it for women it was one of the most important things that they were willing to draw the line on because they know where that goes they don't you as soon as you let someone have control over what you can and can't do with your body just like just to a small extent but like we've talking about with Co with so many different things when people have power and control over people they abuse it and they manipulate it and if you all the sudden have laws so whether these were unfounded fears or not women were worried that people would get data from their fertility apps right so you have ovulation apps and these ovulation apps you tell you say when you had your period and it keeps track of when when you're
ovulating that if a woman had one of those apps and was living in a state because roie Wade's been revers where abortion is illegal and then she travels to another state and has an abortion that she can be prosecuted based on the laws of the state which is to me that's terrifying I age giving people that kind of power over other people especially if they're doing something that's legal in that state the whole idea of states rights is supposed to be first of all we're all we don't need passports to travel from state to state right but every state is essentially almost like a little different country that speaks the same language this is a very different country than California I lived in both places you know there's there's other places New York's a very different country than this but we all agree that we can travel back and forth so then you leave me the [ __ ] alone you if I'm not you don't know what I'm doing in this state and I don't want you check if if someone has a miscarriage and then they go visit a state that has abortion laws and then they get visited by Jack booted thugs that think that they can oppose thew and put some girl in jail to send a message yeah that's [ __ ] terrifying and that I think cost a lot of votes and maybe it's a a wrong perception maybe it's an extreme version of it and I'm exaggerating but I don't trust people I don't trust people that have power over people and I think the less power people have over people the better I think if if you want people to have less abortions make more birth control available make it available everywhere you know education but that's not going to help because kids are crazy you get horny you go nuts but there's a lot of people that make mistakes that you if a man could get pregnant if men could get pregnant I always said abortion would be an app on your phone we would we would have them at the gas station we'd get abortions everywhere like there would be no babies it's you know it's a very complicated decision for someone to make and you know Joe Biden ironically said it best a long time ago he said abortion should be legal and rare I have a long history as a Democratic governor and Congressman supporting a woman's right to choose I haven't changed my view on it I'm a huge Trump supporter but I haven't changed my
view on it for the same reasons that you just explained not to mention the fact who am I as a man that tells a woman what she could do with her body it gets so complicated yeah no it's very complicated and the people on the other side the pro lifers these are good people who genuinely believe that this is the killing of a baby what roie Wade had claim had said in its decision you know it broke it down in the trimesters and within the first trimester that's a life and being but it's not a human being and that's always seems sensible to me and but the idea of government doing what you just Des described can you imagine a guy like me who's gone through what I've gone through with the government what it did to me and to my family not being sympathetic to what you just said yeah about the fear women have it's very very real I don't think you should let the government ever be involved in the choices you make with your body yeah I don't think that and I understand the pro-life perspective yeah I get it I get you know I've talked to very ENT reasonable people that believe that life begins at the moment of conception even in the case of rape right I'm like okay I don't agree with you but I I understand where you're coming from and I could put myself in your mindset and I could I could see that I could I could see how you would think that I could see how you'd say two wrongs don't make a right I could see it I just don't agree with it and you know I don't agree with it because I would not want to be a woman carrying a rapist baby I don't give a [ __ ] what you say and if you want to impose that on a person because you have a different set of beliefs on a person where does that end where does that end you know yeah right it gets [ __ ] weird it gets weird when you let people control people think about how many people were yelling at people to wear a mask outside where's your mask people are [ __ ] weird man when you give them any kind of control over people I don't trust them and that's not like a pro-abortion position that's a pro I don't trust people and their decision-making ability and they abusive power decision that's what that is that's my position yeah and a lot of those people who were demanding those masks and would deny your right to
choose whether you have a vaccine or not the same ones who are very much pro-choice when it came comes to a woman's right to choose but they don't apply the same standard to other things I know it's so fast that inconsistency my body my choice yeah right right exactly which I agree with with [ __ ] everything right you know if you want to get face tattoos I wouldn't recommend it but I have a bunch of friends who have face tattoos jelly roll's got a bunch of them that guy to death post Malone's got a bunch of them I love that guy to death listen I did all those years in prison with guys like that a lot of nice guys with face tattoos how many fighters I know with face tattoos [ __ ] great guy Sean Al shout out to my man Sean face tattoos awesome guy there was a guy in prison named Crow he was clearly a Dodgers fan how did I know he had a tattoo Dodgers right on top of his head and I sang to this guy and about 110 others at the GED graduation with my prison band G Rod of the jailhouse rockers oh wow that's hilarious did you record anything no they didn't allow that oh that's too bad that would been amazing tapes you get that on the internet but you couldn't allow that you couldn't get that in you know damn let a let them have YouTube channels but I had to you know how great that would be YouTube jail channels YouTube look tell the jail listen you can make profits off of this why you split the profits with the imit no you got there look I met a lot of guys a lot of these guys are not bad guys they broke the law and they should be held accountable and have Justice but also mercy and a chance at a second chance also mercy and Redemption right chance Redemption please let's have more of that we don't have enough of that Rehabilitation what what ever happened to that the some of these guys have such good Hearts there was this bank robber in prison Michael Torres good guy his name is socks robbed a bank could he put socks over his face when he robbed the bank is that why you know I don't know that but I have a chapter about him because I taught history with him he he loved General Grant he wanted be lecturer in my Civil War history class but what he did was he robbed it bank and Central California you appreciate this his father was a Pentecostal Minister oh my God he walks
into this Bank his father taught him to always respect the values of respecting your elders okay so he storms into a bank with an assault weapon shouting [ __ ] everybody go to the side I'm robbing his [ __ ] bank I'll kill anybody and blow your heads off if you don't comply get you you don't follow my orders he didn't say comply right so they all scatter around but he spies out of the side of his eye this little old lady in a corner trembling standing there and at that point he recog recogniz her and he puts his bank robbery on pause puts it on hold and all of a sudden he goes from this doctor this Mr Hyde character where he's screaming [ __ ] with his assault weapon to A Gentle Doctor jaal Jackal right goes to the woman calms her and soothes her and tells her ma'am don't worry this won't take too long no one's going to hurt you um I I won't be long let me get you a seat and so some guy sitting in the chair and he says get up [ __ ] or I'll [ __ ] blow your brains out and he ushers her to the seat okay sits her down God oh my God then goes back to the bank robbery gets all the money stops by says goodbye to her leaves didn't plan his getaway so good they get him within I don't know 10 15 minutes didn't take long he's apprehended he's got no defense there's all these Witnesses saw it all so his lawyers correctly say we better just ask for Mercy don't even pretend you didn't do it plead guilty prosecutors want 20 years in prison for socks okay and the mostly always get what they ask for these Federal prosecutors the defense lawyer recognized the judge was like 83 years old or something they bring this little old lady in as a w witness in what they call mitigation a mitigation witness to say that socks the bank robber had some good qualities she tells the story about how kind he was to her in the midst of this bank robbery and the judge gave him 10 years wow so he's his kindness to the old lady in respecting the values of of his father saved him 10 years and he was a great guy to do prison time with if you got to do time in prison socks was your kind of guy fun and he lectured in my class and he talked about General Grant and shy law and he kept telling these guys the [ __ ] was a badass dude this guy was a bad ass
dude that's hilarious yeah there's good people that make bad choices yeah yeah and we if we're g to throw people away that's crazy there's so many people I'm sure that you met that have a lot of potential and I've met a lot of people that have been in jail that are amazing people amazing people they're very resourceful very enterprising very smart one of my favorite guests that I've ever had on is Freeway Ricky Ross tell me is that the singer no yeah no it's the real one the real Ricky Ross who was selling cocaine from getting it from the government and selling it in South Central Los Angeles and and not even knowing like what he was a part of the funding the contas versus the sandinistas holy [ __ ] in the 80s the whole Oliver North thing yeah that's Freeway Ricky Ross he was a legend he making millions every week every week millions of dollars couldn't read right couldn't read was a tennis player really good tennis player but not good enough to be Pro but illiterate Goes to Jail becomes a lawyer in jail teaches himself to read go state prison or federal prison I believe it was federal prison yeah okay believe it was federal prison um goes to jail and finds out that because he understands law that they had used the three strikes rule incorrectly oh and that it's supposed to be three separate incidents of felonies this was three felonies in one incident yeah right and so he got off beautiful he got himself out of jail how long was he in oh he's in a long time how long was Freeway Ricky Ross in but he's the nicest guy he's funny he's like you tell me this guy didn't deserve a second chance ex he a young kid surrounded by drug dealers the only that had any money life sentence was reduced to 20 years so I think he did 20 years got out in 2009 wow where's he at now um he's back in La he just did the podcast recently how long ago did he do it uh last year I think was it last year I feel like it was this year yeah know it was this year what what what month six months ago six months ago yeah you know what I'd like to do my new beginning make enough money where we can have Financial Security for my family and my L I was making six that was making $62 a year every year for8 years right I'm a lawyer I went to law school like this is what I get for for in jail what
do you get paid for um I was a tutor for my first couple years in the higher prison and then when I got to the camp you know orderly where your mop floors your sweep floors um worked in the library for a while I had all kinds of jobs worked in the gym how rude is that they give you a dollar a day the worst job was the in the kitchen and um I write in the book about the day it looked like I was going to go home in August 2019 Trump was pulling me out but he was getting all this push back from the politicians and he had a problem because he had called zalinski and Ukraine and the Democrats were going to impeach him over that telephone call which was absolutely the right thing for him to do because there was evidence videotape evidence of Joe Biden talking about barisma and Hunter Biden his son and Prosecuting firing the prosecutor or he's going to withhold a billion dollars of federal money US money to Ukraine yeah that's probably perhaps probable cause of a crime but it's at least reasonable enough for the law the chief law enforcement officer the president to ask this guy would you look into it that's all they did they impeach him over it so now I'm on hold but when it looked like I was coming out and it was I was literally transferred out of my camp and they said you're going home Trump sending you out sending you home um I had to go back understandably Trump did the right thing for political purposes the White House did but they put me back in the kitchen the one of the cops there felt like who who's this guy think he is some like special inmate cuz the president almost pulled him out we're going to show this [ __ ] he ain't no big deal they put me back in the kitchen at 4:00 in the morning you got to be there you grow you wake up at 3:30 washing pots and pants for eight hours a day they call me the governor of the dish pit right yeah so that paid 525 a month that's so crazy but here's what I like to do I want to be successful make money is things are good have a bestselling book maybe God willing who knows I'd like to meet your guy Rick Ross and others and I'd like to have a foundation that actually does something meaningful like maybe some sort of vocational training culinary training for inmates who are coming home have no
opportunities to learn a skill that they don't teach in prison but they should you should talk to Josh Dubin as well yeah well you help me get a hold of him love absolutely I feel like that's my calling I feel I should do that yeah I'll connect you guys I love that guy to death and that's his main quest life mhm you know to help people and then he's got so many stories of these people getting out and doing incredible things and helping other people as well yeah turning it back around giving you back trying to work and educate these young guys and also trying to stop them from doing bad things like just give them some life skills so they can make good decisions instead of bad decisions because some people are just like there's a reality of being trapped by your circumstances and it's if you have not experienced that and and luckily I haven't and I'm very fortunate but there's a lot of people that do and to Discount that is [ __ ] crazy and we take people and we just put them in cages and we forget about them and it's convenient for us and just lock them up just lock them lock everybody up like stop locking people up well we need to do is understand that we lock more people up than anybody anywhere and it doesn't make us safer what we got to do is get to the root of why so many people are getting locked up yeah that's right we've ignored that we've ignored that it's like we we're constantly cutting cancerous tumors off we're not going hey why do we keep getting cancer like what's is there something we could do different there's a lot we could do different think about the just the money that we have sent to Ukraine imagine if that money just went to rehabilitating the cities in North America there you go what how much good could you do with $200 billion do in America in a year you want to hear a real cynical thing about the Democratic party don't forget I was a Democratic governor I was the first one to endorse Obama I supported Nancy Pelosi and in the house okay I support her stock trades yeah I didn't know about any of those you go to Pelosi stock tracker no you ever seen it oh so good you're kidding yeah oh my God I'm not really a stock market person I don't pay attention but I do know people that are very invested in the stock market and Pelosi stock tracker is legit like
you could find out what she's buying and and you should buy it that is really really interesting well if I want she's a really good stock broker Rod I'm going to do that tomorrow cuz I told you I want she's super good at it yeah I don't know how she has the time considering she's so busy serving the people but you know if she was just a pure uh stock Trader she'd probably be the biggest of all time she's that good well probably not she got no she doesn't have the inside information she has no no no no she's a psychic She's Got Talent ah she gets it I got you she gets it in any event um we were talking about what Criminal Justice Reform what we talking about yes oh in the black community in particular particular in the cynical part of the Democrat Party and it really started hearing a from a guy from this area here in Austin Texas named Lyndon Johnson and there were so many good things about his Great Society programs but it was motivated by politics yes there's poor people that we must help but it wasn't just that he said this will ensure that we get the end vote for a whole generation we'll get the end vote he didn't say it like that he said the whole word right right and that's how the Democrats have approached the black community ever since yeah and it's yes we'll help only so much but we're not going to give the tools or the means to be able to have the same kind of chance and opportunity in the economy where you can actually get up and get out of the neighborhood get out of the hood get out of the poverty and join the middle class you know have a business those sorts of practical things that most everywhere else in America we have those chances but ironically not in the black community because the Democrats don't want to leave they cannot afford to lose 90 to 95% of a safe vote for them if they're free well I think they lost a lot of it during this election because a lot of black folks looked at all these illegal aliens that are coming in here getting all these benefits and getting put up in the Roosevelt Hotel and getting free food and getting uh EBT cards and they were like what the [ __ ] is this like what about us like there was a lot of people in Chicago that were up in arms about that yes very real very right they're 100% correct this is like 100% evidence that these people who are
pretending to be on your side don't give a [ __ ] about you there you go that's the reality of it now if Trump can demonstrate that he gives a [ __ ] it'll change the whole narrative if he can do real things while he's in office and he seems like a guy who's motivated to do real things and the just if you could just get 10% less people winding up in jail imagine what that is imagine what that is 10% more people that are contributing to society and that's a minor goal that's like a that's a totally doable thing that's not unrealistic at all but if you can get 10% with 10% probably would give birth to 20 or 30 eventually I think people would recognize like oh there's a path that I can get my children into that will give them a real secure future outside of this and then you've got to do something about law enforcement you got to mitigate all the gang activity and violence you can't have people growing up thinking that violence is the way and that drug dealing is the way and shooting people is normal you got to you can't let that flourish and grow you can't let let that happen and they for whatever reason have never fully addressed it they've never addressed it with the kind of resources that we address so many of our problems because of the politics and the old Republican party they were fine with it just let the black community be where it is let the Democrats have all those votes and we'll just scare the [ __ ] out of white suburbanites tell them that those gangbangers and assas of Chicago are coming out to your suburb right and they get votes that way Trump is a very different guy and he's building this Republican party it's a political realignment and he got more black votes than any republ Republicans candidates gotten since 1976 he's still a long way from well I think the whole he's racist narrative just died it is such an outrageous accusation by project people that project because they're racist some of these Democrat policies yeah they're dressed up as being pro black are fundamentally anti-black look at the education issue schools suck I went to public school in Chicago I wasn't exactly setting the world on instead of making the schools better they lower the standards and they just pump all kinds of money into it and they they need
money but they don't deny a mother a single mother with a young child in the black community a chance to have some some choice and where she might want to send her child to school yeah so they're they're locked into that special interest politics and control of the teachers unions that have that kind of influence you should have there should be some like real concerted effort to raise the standard of all schools all of them like significantly and again I keep going to Ukraine but if we're a country that's like what are we a trillion dollars three TR how many trillions of dollars in debt are we 39 whatever it is whatever crazy number that doesn't make sense in my head whatever the number is right how do we we have so much money to send to all these countries in foreign aid we just gave a billion dollars to Africa in case they get hit by storms you know for natural disasters what how much would it cost how much would it cost to fix every school in the country how much would it cost would it C you can't it can't be done okay are you telling me can't be done with $39 trillion if we if I gave you $39 trillion do you think that you could fix every school in the country I bet you could I bet you have a lot of money left over Okay so let's forget the 39 trillion because that's ridiculous but what's the number like what how much would it actually cost to just with like proper planning a real strategy and hire the best professionals you possibly can compensate them well with a goal entirely focused on fixing the education system in America taking our standing where we are internationally which is very low now and raising it back up to the top how do we do that how much how much would it cost just help me out help me out it's not insurmountable like if I said 39 trillion you'd be like yeah you could definitely do it yeah you definitely pay people so much money yeah you can't do it for 39 trillion you know why why because there's all kinds of entrenched obstacles that won't let you do the necessary reforms to make the teachers teach the kids better of course okay so it's it's money is a part of it sure but it is less of a part than actually having some sort of system of accountability so that there's actually
results that is it isn't unfortunately in the education system at least in places like Chicago for example the public school system of which I come from it isn't the priority of that Union the teachers union is less the children it's all about their members and the teachers and so they resist any kinds of changes that would maybe make for the the classroom environment to be more conducive to teach a child things like Merit pay which is controversial but they resist even out of hand the chance that maybe you provide bonuses to teachers who are successful in raising up a child's test scores and then test scores alone aren't the best evidence of whether or not a child is learning so there's these are complicated things you have to have the money necessary to do it but it doesn't have to be an astronomical sum they've got to change the way they are teaching our children and I think you can learn from other countries and see what other countries are doing successfully and try to bring that here the problem you get is the politics in America and the Democratic party is controlled by in many different interest groups and the teachers unions the the Education Association um those unions have an unbelievable amount of Sway and Democratic candidates are afraid of them plus they need them to win so there the complications are more administrative than they are money and the concern of taxpayers that keep throwing money good money after money that's not working is a legitimate one and I look I could have done more on this issue when I was governor when I had that power we put a lot of money to the schools but it was hard for me to be able to get accountability in the politics of it so you think that even if there was some sort of a executive order or some sort of Bill that gets passed where they concentrate entirely on raising the standard of education at whatever it costs like this is this is a priority for our country the more people that we have that are Highly Educated the less losers the less crime the less everything the more people participate the better the dream gets the more competition there is we all we all strive Rising tide lifts all boats let's [ __ ] go I love it if they did that you think the teachers union would be
the biggest impediment to actual success the teachers union would be the the first place but they see the the way the way the special interest group in government the special interest groups work in government is they build coalition so the teachers union is a powerful Group by themselves they they would have a hard time stopping that but they would enlist the support of other groups that they have supported in some of their issues and suddenly you've got not just the teachers unions but you got the the AFL CIO you got you know the United Auto Workers you got all these different unions lining up and then couple that with some of the you know some of the more Progressive interest groups the lgbtq perhaps the women you know the uh what's uh the pro-choice group that's Planned Parenthood those are organizations that are that have those alliances with the unions even though they're interest their issues are far apart the concerns they have are very different and they don't match up but they've got these coalitions so you'd have to get over all of that in order to be successful not to mention the fact that you've got you know natural resistance to you know significant change but if you look at for a place that's crying out for Major reform all you got to do is look at the performance of kids that come out of public schools and poor neighborhoods and say there's something really wrong here and it's black kids who are disproportionately getting screwed well then there's also the factor of their growing up in crimer ridden neighborhoods and they're probably not getting enough nourishment there there's a lot of factors that would also inhibit your ability to even absorb information the stress and the the trauma so what you really got to do is fix all that in cities that's another thing like how much would it cost to significantly put a dent in crime in all cities and do it in a way where people didn't think and the military and clean up and you know it's not a militarization of cities like do there's got to be a way to do it how much would it cost how much put some of that money towards more police and that's the other irony but you need that gang bangers in Chicago outnumber police officers 75 to1 and where's most of the
crime it's in those poor black neighborhoods 75 to1 and the Democrats are you know [ __ ] cops and police so stupid but not in their neighborhoods is where the crime is taking place it's in those poor NE neighborhoods they're the victims of the crimes it's so upside down it's so wrong but you know what's happened they've they've because of the politics of things and their relationships they ignored or actually butchered common sense and one of the things about the Trump Administration that offers hope is that there'll be a restoration of common sense um in ter in terms of its approach to things and one of the good things about this last election and with podcasts like yours and these other alternative places where people can get information is that you can think outside the box and start to do new things that are different as opposed to the same old things that give the same old results and I would suggest that if you want to stop crime and end the mass incarceration in America educate the kids when they're young and give them a chance to have the skills they need so they can do something other than sell drugs absolutely the question is how would you do it if you were a part of the administration if Donald Trump heard this conversation and said you know what I think he's I think he's right and I think we can do something about it what would you do on education or on something else well it would first be it's it's both of are connected right crime and education they're connected in the lowest income most crime ridden communities has the lowest education levels right so they're inexorably connected see without you can't you can't just deal with Education Without dealing with crime so you'd have to do both right I think I'm an expert on the crime part of it you know cuz F I've seen it from both sides I lived it yeah both places I think you know I look I'm I'm happy to volunteer my services and to share my experience but I think on the issue of weaponized prosecutors and the corruption of the doj I think I don't think anybody knows that subject better than me and I think I'm happy to provide any kind of free advice or suggestions I can have so
that's a job you want but in addition to that I would say what job would you take like if you call what's the dream one if you what's the dream conversation no well it's not that it's not a job you ask me what would I do right what would I do but isn't there like a title that would allow you to do what you want to do I don't know but I'll just say it isn't just that though see I think I can bring my own experience from the time I had in prison with my homies in there like I said yeah most them all you have homies you're like one of the few former governors with homies like legit you can say that ironically if my friend Spade you know Joe n Moore is listening shout out to Joe n Moore or Walter Hill or gee block drug deer from sou side of Chicago imagine any other guy who is a former Governor saying homies and having it be authentic was authentic 100% so you feel me bro yeah like for real a guy who hadn't done time to say my homie is like shut the [ __ ] up those guys you play pickle ball with yeah right shut up but you have actual homies yeah and I'm try I try to help them as much as I can now within my limited ability but the way I can really help is I think I can bring a perspective on how merciless our criminal justice system is and how we do have a country of mass incarceration and how this woman a black woman wrote this bestselling book called the new Jim Crow and how it's an excuse on a reasons that discriminate against black people based upon their felony convictions how they go to prison but they're not guided to actually learn the skills that they could use one day when they get out of prison all these things are can be corrected I feel like I can be helpful in something like that I think you're the P perfect person to ask us about about what how do you feel about private prisons I I don't I don't know enough about all the details but I'm very suspicious of that the profit motive in private prisons and a lot of the for example the commissary stuff that's been privatized things along those lines I don't know enough about about that I my feeling is probably not but maybe you can do some version of that by some by Contracting out to some private companies to come in and educate inmates which might be interesting bring some private companies in that could teach
vocational training particularly culinary skills which is very much something that where you can get out of prison and have a chance to get a job maybe get your own restaurant start your own business practical things privatize some of that that might be worthwhile that could work but as it is right now government doing it they're not doing it by the way if you want an argument against you know socialized medicine and I believe Healthcare is a human right and I believe I was the healthcare Governor I frankly think Joe even though I'm the only Governor imp peach in Illinois history and they won't even let my portrait up there in the state capital I'm the only one really I feel like I was the best governor in Illinois history for the [ __ ] that I did for regular people health care for every child free public transportation for our seniors for the disabled uh mammograms and psmears for underserved women and if we find cancer we get it treated and save their lives this thing called open road tolling where communs can go without you know having to pay tolls they've got a transponder where they can go all across the country we're the first in the country to do that all kinds of stuff where an average citizen says this Governor bich did this for me I can't think of a [ __ ] thing any of my other Governors have ever done for anybody I know if you can think about what is the you know what is Governor X done for me that I feel in real life so I think I did those things and um it's but I to brag on myself I just got off message what were we talking about well we were talking about what would you do yeah what would be your dream job and helping along the lines of that and again even volunteering but you were talking about Criminal Justice Reform because like who would know know about it more than you correct yeah yeah correct that makes a lot of sense you got to go to Congress you got to change those laws you got to undo some of those guidelines because the Jud these judges are required by law to whack a guy because he fits certain Criterion but they don't look at the other stuff in his life that this guy's never had a crime before that he's got a family that he's actually done good works those things don't take into aren taken into consideration when they have these
guidelines that the judge judges have to follow they were pushed by prosecutors to give them the tools to go after you know criminal Behavior how much of an effort once you actually get inside is there to rehabilitate you almost none maybe none at all none it's adult babysitting but is it all like self-motivated if you do want to improve yourself it's self motivated yeah and there's resources where you can do that I mean there there are places where you can learn not enough vocational stuff not nearly enough but you can do that but there's no guidance terms do you get counseling counseling yes so that is guidance in some way no I mean like guidance what they they don't teach you anything they'll you know well in your situation you but they didn't teach the other guys I mean I right know enough about that to know that they weren't getting any kind of guidance the councelors are just giving you guidance on how to deal with the world we're in that place and also no no motivation to try to improve yourself or to figure out why you got in there yeah there's some motivation so for example I'm singing Jail House Rock before 110 inmates who the day before I see in the yard all muscled up they're all big muscle guys they got tats all over right and they got interesting hairstyles you know some of them fumu you know they look like gangas Khan some of them right you got these racist Nazi guys with swastikas tatted on them right and they're all of a sudden on this particular day they're wearing caps and gowns and hear me the former Governor of Illinois once thought about believe it or not as a presidential candidate I'm about to sing House Rock to these guys right the wardens there oh my God practiced for a year cuz it was a way to get out get your bind out of prison was embracing music and they have a music room there with good Acoustics and good and there was a a guy who was had the head of the music department an inmate a drug dude who was went to Berkeley the music school in Boston really great musician his name's Ernie I don't want to say his last name to embarrass him great guy he was like my music mentor and I learned that if you practice singing I'm not a singer but you can actually improve and it was like a way where we would practice for
hours a day where I wasn't in prison for those five hours you know I was focusing on trying to get good at something right right so there we are a year later we had auditioned and won the gig for the jail house rockers to perform before the GED graduates and there's the warden all the brass in the prison 110 of these badass guys they had an outside guest speaker to give a moot motivational speech I'm stepping up about to sing my first song by black called a better man you know leave in here a better man you ever hear that song country song I don't know if I have yeah so but before I do I catch the warden and i' had been told sometime before that the warden has the power in a federal prison under certain circumstances where he could actually release an inmate without the court and in one particular case some guy was slicing up another inmate almost killed him and a third inmate intervened and stopped the fight and saved the guy's life the aggressor got more criminal charges against them and got sent to an even higher prison the victim thank goodness survived [ __ ] up he was bloodied up and all the all of that but the third party that intervened The Peacemaker saved a life the warden sent him home wow he had the power to do that so I was told this now suddenly I'm about to sing Jail House Rock right there he is I figure I think I'll go off the program and add live a little bit because I've been on stage before I know how to do that so I look at at the warden I say I like I'd like to dedicate this song to the warden please release me let me go cuz I don't want to be here anymore right that's hilarious nobody laughed you laugh nobody laughed the warden staring at me that all the inmates don't know what to make of it they were afraid to laugh you know um that's hilarious but GED is one way where you can get a reduction you can get good time so you can spend less a little less time in prison I'll give you maybe be I don't know several months or maybe a year off your sense or something so there are some incent okay yeah something like that there should be more of that yeah listen man you had a wild life um and uh I'm glad you're out thank you and I'm glad I listened to you on Tucker and I got a different sense of who you were than what the narrative was
that I saw over the media you obviously I don't know what happened but uh you know I think you're a good dude and I enjoyed talking to you I appreciate you Joe God bless you and congratulations on your God bless you too and um this book is it done is it almost done do you have a publisher we we kind of glossed over that a little bit but yeah so it's Vindication publishing my own little publishing company I freeold 8,000 books so so far so good the reason I have to do it myself is the New York Publishers don't like the good Trump stuff are do you uh have an audio version that you're going to do I'm going to do an audio version you'll do it right absolutely okay yeah all right it has to be yeah all right thank you thank you very much bye everybody a [Music]