Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM8f5Gp3kE
[Music] by night thank you very much for joining us I really appreciate it thank you it's lovely to meet you and uh a really really appreciate your life's work I mean I think what you've done has been really remarkable particularly because of the time period in which you embarked in it I mean you sort of got involved in psychedelics and psychedelic research at the very beginning of it and when it was extremely controversial and very difficult to do research actually got involved in it when it was incredible fun and um I was incredibly lucky with my timing I think because I was very attracted to um the other side if you like the mystical because I lived in this very very isolated spot and one had nothing but do but they kind of mooch around a beautiful place have mystical experiences dream of the future is that your phone there you go when did you first get involved or even interested in uh what you would call Mystical experiences I didn't know how to turn these things off do you want me to turn around for you please okay these wacky kids today and their devices all right sorry about that no worries no worries at all um so how old were you when you first got interested in um very young I should say um I came uh I had a kind of in the I I grew up in this very isolated place um I was very very close to my father who came back from the ball at diabetic and she was a very eccentric person and so from three I was his carer so I was eight years old yeah which was a lovely role I mean I was his little pet dog I went everywhere with it I adored him and he adored me and so and he was a very um out of the he wasn't in normal society at all how so it just wasn't he
was eccentric and a Charming um did he say anything artist um farmer but not really a farmer he couldn't be a really fun um yeah anyway so um and I suppose spiritually I had three my mother was a Catholic so I grew up a Catholic and then he was whatever agnostic atheist nothing I accept her I think and then his best friend who was his kind of he picked up as um he the person who did all his work when he was at University called Bertie was became a Buddhist monk a rather famous Buddhist monk but so he was a big influence in the absence because he was my godfather and I said I had these three influences and so I kind of dreamed of doing magic mystical things in the world and had mystical experiences with lots of children do and so then um I I'm sorry I can't quite think how to con condense it but anyway I grew up in an unusual setting and with a passion for Altered States Mystics I started studying them another probably about 10. really yeah and um and it became rather a passion in in the place we lived it got three moats and it was a very overgrown and in between the motor cells uh amount very beautiful mind well I had to kind of pet God who lived in the mouth I called it here and my kind of um my mission was making this God figure laugh so that was the aim of the game so when you say you studied uh the mystical States at 10 like how so how are you doing that um well when I started reading I started reading about it but I didn't read I didn't know what I meant by that but when I went to church Catholic church with my mother and there was incense and all that sort of thing and I had kind of mystical experiences with Jesus I was very close to Jesus in those days and um then whatever but it was a kind of rather
wild quite a dangerous upbringing um we had to do the farming it was quite it was a mixture between all the kind of beautiful setting but quite a mixture with peasant life of looking out for the animals and um farm animals pigs cars all of that sort of thing and um then one point I decided I wanted to leave home I went to a boarding school it's a terrible mistake and um a compliment and actually I won the sound when I was 16 on the sounds prizes it's quite clever but I hated it it lived outside the boundaries of the school all the time and then I wanted books on Buddhism because I for my pride and the nuns said no no we can't give a book from Buddhism and so he said all right I'll I'll leave thanks very much and educate myself which is what I did I left school at 16. really and um that was because they wouldn't allow you to study Buddhism yeah yeah yeah that's what I chose to study and they wouldn't say thanks in the original days of the church the incense what they would walk down the aisle with that was Cannabis that was beautiful yeah I mean the one thing I loved about that Convent there was a in the chapel they had even song and this Italian um with a voice of an Angel and it really with the insects took one into a mystical space yeah and that was very special that was the high point of it they used to use cannabis and then the host what did the host used to be the host I mean obviously originally it was a psychedelic yes um do we know what psychedelic um I think different places are different ones but kind of based on mushroom or ergot or those sort of things and if I'm rather keen on making sacred hosts um isn't there involved in that anyway that's a different story but I'd love to hear that story you make sacred hosts no I don't but I'm going to you're going to come I once actually a story was very much shock
um probably a Catholic conference um not to uh well once I was in Paris and we were walking by Notre Dame on a Sunday and very high and um went into the church and lovely eucharists I hadn't heard all those wonderful songs I love those Latin 16th century um chanting and so I experienced having the host again and it was so cious it was wonderful and so I can absolutely see originally the host was a psychedelic it experience and it's with that music and the incense it's a beautiful spiritual experience yeah I'm sure that was probably the root of a lot of those religious ceremonies I think so have you read uh John Marco of the gross book The Sacred Mushroom in the cross no I haven't no is that a good one it's an amazing book right John Marco legro was oh yes I remember do you know his name I remember his name I don't think I ever heard him he was an ordained minister who was a religious scholar and an expert on language and he was one of the uh deciphers of the Dead Sea Scrolls right so he worked with that for 14 years they deciphered the Dead Sea Scrolls right and then he wrote The Sacred Mushroom in the cross which was his interpretation of what the Dead Sea Scrolls was really all about right and he believed that the origins of Christianity were in the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals yes yeah I absolutely agree I'm sure psychedelics were the root of all of those spiritual practices and part of them most likely yeah so when you were first experiencing these things like what year are we talking about when you first got excited about these things um let me just think I love it um well I fast my cannabis when I was 16. well enough the first time I spoke to it Ray Charles was playing oh wow no I felt this is Paradise yeah and I better millions of people had Ray Charles and our first sounding of um cannabis but it was wonderful it's amazing what it does to music yeah yeah so I was um 60 which was um I was born
in 43 so whenever that was um anyway that's when I started smoking cannabis and um it was I was at Oxford at that point with a very interesting group of um they were older than the other students because they'd been in Korea so they were much better educated and they were smokers and introduced me to those wonderful books like against nature and um lotumo and well rather wonderful material and it was a very creative period and at that point as I'd left school by then I had somehow got um the world's leading um but like I was American one because anyway on comparative religions mysticism someone called professors zaina who's at all cells in Oxford and wrote a book chords um mysticism of the Sacred and profane and he became my tutor so I went and saw him twice a week which was a very kind of awkward um meeting so yeah um um because I was very shy and he was very shy and within all cells I mean they said they're cuddling the cats kind of thing and then finally I decided the best way forward was to bring my very very handsome um cousin who's a student at Oxford because he was gay and that kind of wasn't everybody else yeah yeah and then it became very friendly and fun yeah and but anyway he'd written this book which I actually didn't agree with which was saying um psychedelicism sacred and profane and he was the Catholic convert actually and he thought that he'd had one experience with masculine I think it was and not liked it and thought that they were a very different bracket to the experience you could get through an endogenous mystical experience interesting which I don't actually think is necessary I think they're the same experience but obviously with different qualities I've I've heard you say that you believe that what psychedelics do is make the mind
more fertile for these experiences that's a good way yes exactly what I think I think you're at that level where the ego's control has dissolved to some degree and so it's like fertile ground and so if you've whatever pre-20 or if you're ready for mystical experience you're more likely to have it in that experience in that state of mind so the mind is actually restricting us in many ways through the ego from having these experiences yes I think so and what psychedelics do is release those boundaries yes I think that due to the um evolution of man homo sapiens and are taking taking the upright position this is a theory I was introduced to in 1966 and actually I think a lot of the details are probably wrong but in concept I think is true which is the Apes standing upright one thing people haven't taken into account is obviously the 100th of the acids of standing upright free or harmlessly run faster you see further but in the upright position gravity is against the blood in the brain because in the brain they're too fluid volumes of blood and cerebral spinal fluid which is water basically which is made in the brain itself so it has can squatters right in the brain so um when you end up reposition gravity is pulling the blood down so I think probably without position we lost a small proportion of our blood supply I mean some animals you tie them up right a dog food if it's tied up so you can't get down it will start hardly can go mad because it hasn't got the valves to keep the blood up and we've obviously got a certain amount but maybe we lost some blood at that upright position and as a compensation for that loss I think we developed an internal mechanism more than any other animal has done it which is to direct the blood where it most needs to go obviously all animals do that they have the part to send the blood was most important to
survival or whatever and I think that through the use of the conditioned sound the word we learn to control that that process more than any other animal and over the Millennia we kind of build up our power to do that so I think that's the secret of why humans talking app got control of the whole game because of our creation of language which enables us to do these incredible things we do yes but it also has a disadvantage that are basic state is slightly low in blood in the dominant organ so we have to keep this this mechanism of tight control where the blood is distributed and that is evolved with the ego which is essential I mean we wouldn't survive without the ego to kind of um direct the blood where it's most needed people who lose their ego and in their 60s when people took large doses of LSD as it was then every day sometimes they lost their ego they flipped out and there was one occasion of someone who knew who was in Ibiza and he'd flipped out and he put the key in his the lock to open the door someone to say goodnight to him he put the key in the lock and left him and then in the morning he was still there with the key in the door because the head hadn't told him turn the keys over the door wow we need the words to keep us you know yes under control yeah so it the words have made us what we are this incredible animal who can atoms in the body all those brilliant things we do which is amazing but we're also obviously a very deeply faulted animal at some point where um you know neurotic psychotic psychotic you know um all of those things because of this um shortage of blood and then the dependent on the meaning of the work so if we have a terrible conditioning which a lot of people do yes um the the separation from reality
is in a sense in the meaning of the word um so the danger of our society now in a sense is we're getting further and further away from nature in a sense and that in a way is why psychedelics can be a very useful medicine because they increase the connectivity with the senses with the with the internal bodily senses and also the outside perceptual senses um so I actually think that we're entering a kind of new possible age and that's why fun I call it the Psychedelic age because for the first time we've got or getting the knowledge by which we can actually understand the brain better and understand how we can alter the volume of blood in the brain which is giving the brain energy the whole thing is about energy the more energy we have the more parts of the brain can function simultaneously and um that obviously can be very um creative stimulating empathic by just having more of the brand functioning um and so I think that the knowledge of psychedelics and when I say psychedelics I don't actually mean necessarily psychedelics because as we all know one can get these experiences endogenously through exercise or holotropic breathing hydrotropic bleeding exactly or breathing exercise I mean all the spiritual training all knew that that's what they were doing in the spiritual disciplines is teaching people how to control now internal eager and also their sense of Consciousness and I think at the center of the spiritual experience is the getting higher and loosening the grip of the eager so you're more in touch with nature do you think that in the absence of these psychedelic
experiences one of the problems with words is that we develop narratives and then we use our ego to reinforce these narratives and we sort of deny objective reality yes I think more and more the word can become the reality I mean in the creation of Words which we all have and have to have I'm thankful to have but nevertheless it does create a new a slightly different world it's rather like um the Shadows on Plato's wall and gets one's internal edition of the world rather than the real experience of the world and so um I think it's I think it's good to be in contact with nature and I think it's a dangerous path that we're taking now where it becomes more and more um life is the screen but still that's the way we're going and um and it has great advantages as well as dangerous kind of thing but I do think that the knowledge of getting High has always been Central to the human evolution and at the earliest um demonstrations of what we've got of the earliest demonstrations of human culture say the caves in Chauvet do you know that yeah yeah which I I think they've never been bettered I mean that that artwork the brush Strokes from those animals they're alive you can see the movement no one ever did it better and it's like 30 something thousand years old exactly 35 40 something around there wow so they I can talk because I um some respects an artist I know those Strokes let's see pull up some of those images Jamie because some of those images yeah here we go yeah amazing stuff they're just incredible out there yeah the movement of that yeah yeah that did create a feeling of movement like the animals were running yeah and the the lines I mean anyone who paints I mean um Picasso I think said without them he would have never done what he did or I can't remember quite but a modern art isn't better it gets as good but not really it's crazy because they're depicting rhinos too yeah really
wild there was rhinos in France yeah beautiful ones of horses and Buffalos and yeah um um and so and that's in the bowels of the earth they're doing a very spirituals why going to the bowels of the earth if it's the kind of magical spiritual experience they're having yeah and so I I think without doubt um they were high how they got there was it through singing drumming or um singing or was it through taking compounds funnily enough I've recently been introduced met Charming man whose archaeologist in charge of sugar and I said I'd love to be able to analyze and see if we can find out if there's any remnants right there's some psychiatric substance or something and he said I was very welcome to go there so I'm very excited about the possibility are you aware of uh Brian Moore rescue's work yes I know I knew him years ago he approached me at the U.N oh and he said he'd do um Pro bonus lawyer work really because I never took it up maybe yeah it could be better if this was on the top of your head how did you do that like that yeah you go there you go yeah thank you it won't fall down yeah his work with uh determining that uh in in eluses yeah we're using ergot and some other psychedelics yes no I know I know the book and I know him yeah yeah yeah and um and also I know from long ago um Carl Rook wrote the original book do you know that one the road to eluses yeah I've heard of it which is a very good book with um with Albert Hoffman and and um the banker what was his name anyway um so they know that those people at least back then the illustrian Mysteries that they were using psychedelics yeah and you know it's obvious from the art what I can what I think is that one can sense when the civilization was had at its source the use of Altered States Of Consciousness I see them as you know civilization rather like The Cutting of a tree you see the Rings some years are droughts and other of sound and rain and they are wide and flourishing yes well in in culture I
mean that eluses I mean there must have been high to produce that incredible art and it's saying that um eluses and all of that Greek I mean it's never taught at schools and things Birth by sons did Classics at Oxford none of them it was never mentioned to Lucius do you know what I mean yeah it's amazing that Center the whole classical world is the mystical experience of death and rebirth well Harvard's opened up a field of stuff yeah which is quite interesting I knew I'm a student 20 years ago who wanted to do his PhD in elusive and Howard told him if you do that you won't get it yeah that was a giant problem after 1970 correct like after the sweeping psychedelic dock where they made everything schedule one psilocybin and masculine everything and when they did that they they not only did they ruin the possibility of having those experiences for so many people because it was forbidden because it was very dangerous you could get arrested but also it stopped all the research yes absolutely for 50 it was 50 60 70 Lost Years and until suffering of the millions of people who went to prison usually for minorities yes and had their right lives ruined by a record for maybe having been caught for a joint three times or whatever I mean it is horrific what happened well there's people in jail right now for that in this country which is insane it's insane and I mean I started fighting them back whenever when I started Foundation I saw that in order to do research one had to change the drug policies and the two went hand in hand because doing the research would help change the drug policies and in order to do the research you had to change the policies I mean it was a bit of a catch-22 because until you've done the research you can't do it if you see what I mean because they make it so difficult to do well I think what Maps has done which is genius is their work with MDMA and soldiers and soldiers having PTSD absolutely because yeah the general I mean when you think of soldiers you think of people in the military you generally think of people who are right wing who have more authoritarian
leanings yes but yet these are the people that would be aided the most by these psychedelics particularly coming back from war so because of that I believe they've opened up a door to an understanding I think it's very very important and that's why in the 70s when because I was involved in it in the 60s mainly and my passion to change the world started when I first really knew the value of psychedelics which was probably in 65 onwards and as the door of repression came down well you can see it's it kind of disaster for Humanity yes but I thought the only way we could overcome it is by using the language of the establishment to prove that these compounds can actually heal Humanity not be damaging for Humanity as they were advertised as but actually they're are how root to healing and better happiness more fulfilled life and sir I thought that that's why I started doing the sounds to try to with the language of the modern world which it sounds to demonstrate how valuable these compounds are and I think our first that's why I set up the Beckley Imperial study and the first day we did was using psilocybin and then we saw that I wanted to do LSD but we couldn't do LSD in those days um had to be psilocybin and as no one knows what psilocybin is how it's spelled what what it means it's not suitable so we got permission and um I wanted to do brain Imaging to look into a hypothesis that what they do is increase the volume of blood in the in the brain capillaries hmm and hopefully with them or I won't see that I thought but anyway what we did see in the first study we did was a psilocybin was a decrease of blood in the default mode Network which is a modern expression of the ego what part of the ego and that was very interesting because the default mode Network I the eager is hyperactive underlying psychological um conditions like depression or anxiety or
addiction or all of those things have a hyperactive ego saying I need a drink I'm so depressed yeah and we saw that psilocybin lowers the blood supply to that part of the brain and so then actually we got a government grant to help us do the next phase of the study so I think it's very important showing how because as we all know we're in an epidemic of mental illness now yes getting ever more and rather surprisingly anyway rather ironically France which has been so determined to prove that the spiritual is an old man in the skies and just total rubbish but she finally has done um now at the very center of the new healing I psychedelic assisted therapy is the mystical experience and what we showed is the people who underwent what can categor it as a mystical experience I.E loosening of the ego or feeling of Unity those are the ones who have the best outcomes of overcoming their depression hmm so it's a rather a beautiful little um ironical twist yes that now suddenly the psychedelics are at the center of this new approach to Healing and I think the healing of psychedelics goes much much farther than what we've touched on so far which is um the psychologically based conditions I I think it can be very very useful in different doses because what is so wonderful about psychedelics is have different totally different the different dose right and at the mini micro dose um I I'm beginning to have evidence and I'm just starting a study which shows the amazing potential results of Mitra dose for Alzheimer's really yeah interestingly amazing remarkable really yeah and I was watching a video yesterday on cannabis and Parkinson's it was incredible yeah there was a gentleman who had horrible
loss of control of his body and the shaking and they gave him cannabis oil yeah and he put it under his tongue and a few minutes later he's lying back on the couch and then he holds his hands out and his hands are dead straight I'm like this is extraordinary and my partner before who um is the father of my children he got Parkinson's sounds very well I'm very fond of him mild Parkinson's but still it was Parkinson's and so I'd heard how and I've studied it her micro dosing it began is very good for um my minimizing so I'm wanting to do I'm setting up a research into that interesting you know I think and I think also this is the gentleman right here this is exactly the video that I saw so this guy has yeah terrible loss of control ah of his body he could barely hold the cannabis oil in his mouth ah poor math yeah I mean yeah he's struggling so bad but now what it says 1 37 p.m this is when he takes it and then you see just a few minutes later they show him lie back and this is uh go ahead Jamie that's 141. look at this I mean not even 10 minutes that is man look at this and he's he's fine he sits up and he's he's just blown away by he's like it's so quickly and look at his hands incredible no that is wonderful I have a friend who has a child that has a pretty severe autism and when he gives the Kid Cannabis yes when he gives him edible cannabis it just stops it yeah she stops it absolutely make eye contact yeah Kate absolutely well I could show you the trouble is I can show you privately but not the the person involved doesn't want it to go out um of a wonderful old lady of 97 who had um Alzheimer's for seven years or something but she was very bright she was a poet and a patron and was looked after about some and then he went away for a week and someone else came and looked up and when he came back she was at a kind of um vegetative apathy which he didn't recognize him hmm to staring into space and they discussed it before and she'd said yeah she knew he sometimes took a
psychedelic and so he gave her a micro dose of LSD and an hour later I've got the photograph she's a little sparkling old lady with her full contact with him saying I feel so wonderful let's read some poetry now wow you know just like that man yeah and then he contacted me and said what what should he do so I said well first thing would be to get a doctor to help you um manage it and then continue with the lower doses gets out effect which was 10 microbes which is 10 millionths of a gram I mean such a small dose you would hardly think it could have an effect and that does something which I'm doing research on now because I think it's to do with the connectivity between the different brand centers which I think it Sparks and it brought her back and her children read it was just remarkable it's incredible you know and I've noticed the same things I'm very I've in the middle of getting going on the autism study because I think for certainly with level one the layer lower degrees of autism um micro dosing LSD can be enormously beneficial and I've got a friend who's had experience of that um and wrote a very good book about it actually called autism and LSD and um so now I'm designing a study it I'm getting his advice on the autism level of things and I I think that what I think is what I'm fascinated in and this is where I got this interest right back in 1966. uh what are the mechanisms underlying that makes um LSD and Associated compounds have the effect it has and obviously then there was no brain Imaging so it was very difficult to see inside the brain one could only uh theorize about the hypotenate hypothesis and so this that scientist who I had a long relationship with had um
this hypothesis that it um constricts it's a vasoconstrictor constricting the veins the blood comes into the capillaries can't get out the capillaries blow up and squeeze out the cerebral spinal fluid and then slowly over the year of gravity um pulls the blood down again so that's um yeah and you go back to normal but during that period of more blood in the brain you have more energy now I'm looking into now how does it make more energy apart from providing more glucose and oxygen and I've got a very very interesting something which is coming up which I'll tell you on my next talk about okay but I'm very excited because I think people anyone you talk to would say that the psychedelics on the Cannabis they all work on the same direction I think they all cannabis and the psychedelics have the same underlying mechanisms but at different levels of I think the constrictions yeah the psychedelics are much stronger because you obviously get much higher you can on the Psychedelic but they're going in the same direction and that's what the endogenously a lot of the I'd love to know more about that I really if I've got time to do that study into the underlying um you know um serotonin dopamine all the different hormones in the body which can do these things endogenously yeah I mean we know the fence got top high Saint Teresa her description of her um orgasm with God it's just like a description of a psychedelic trip so it's the same experience but either got endogenously or through other ways I think once one thing that's very interesting about cannabis too is the difference between eating it yes and when your your body is producing 11-hydroxy metabolite from the eating of it it can produce a very powerful psychedelic experience absolutely and um my experiences with it where it's been very profound are with the sensory deprivation tank yes I have a sensory deprivation tank and I do it with credible marijuana right and it's
incredible right and I think there's some my good friend who grows marijuana and I think are very interested in the uh me always wants me to work with one of the breeds he reads because it is like a psychedelic and I thought I'd call it the if I do it the Beckley brain boost because he it brings back his memory and it brings back I I think they're very I mean we only beginning to scrape the top of the knowledge yeah of how these compounds work and how we can use them for Humanity well it's just very unfortunate that research was stopped for so long yes and we're very fortunate that there's people like yourself and maps and and some of the other groups that have continued research and that's really pushed for the legalization of this yes and I think now we we've got a Tipping Point where I think we've got enough good research which really shows without doubt that we can get better results with using psychedelics to help and cannabis than we can get without it and therefore is really criminal not to throw money at this research so we can get it out to the people quicker yeah because access is what we need for all those people who have got terrible things they're suffering from which could be helped and I mean I I do as much as research as I can but I'm a tiny organization four or five people and tiny amounts of money we've got and so and to get a study going takes a year of paperwork getting permissions getting the compounds which are I'm at the moment doing because I'm wanting to re-um civilized LSD because I think LSD is actually the purest and a cleanest of the compounds and in many ways the best not not against I think Phyllis Hyman are the ones are wonderful and they all have their different characteristics which are incredibly valuable but it's a complete um Madness that the one which is really in a way purist is kind of opening up a magnification of what we are with very little external coloring I think last year's
and as it is completely non-toxic you can give it to people forever you know it's not toxic they aren't building up toxicity a lot of people are micro dosing it now it's a very very common thing that micro dosing of LSD and this what their reporting is an alleviation of anxiety a heightened state of of wellness and of awareness and of being in the moment yes Clarity yeah yes just from a microdose yes I mean we actually did the first with a scientific research on the micro dose I was collaborating with maastrix in Holland and we did it on on 5 10 20 I think it was those doses and I mean it was amazing the results it's um increases mood it increases neuroplasticity it increases um neurogenesis it increases anti-inflammatory it increases tolerance to pain Vigilant you know all of these very valuable qualities yeah in a micro dose yeah and we could be using that with all sorts of indications which need actually more energy to kind of overcome certain deficits and also it's a therapy applications because you do it and you're essentially completely sober yes and in the sense of you can communicate you see things clearly everything is fine yes but you have achieved a very elevated State absolutely but you say everyone can do it it's only the very few who know how I come across and new mobile people who I I know someone who you know who has terrible migraine and um he had a micro dose of HD and it killed it and he has terrible problems in getting it and um it's not easy to get no so do you see what I mean and a lot of people don't want to have to go on to the dark web I don't know I have no idea how you do the dog you know what I mean and what you're opening yourself up to when you get on the door exactly you don't know what the product is I mean what I've said about the I mean I spent 10 boring years talking at the U.N and places not totally but I went there trying to say we should have a drug policy which is based on Psalms
on harm reduction on human rights you know and cost Effectiveness I mean you know and not one which is the exact reverse right well that's kind of sort of the problem is cost the the real problem is there's a vested financial interest in keeping these things illegal yeah because there's a lot of psychological medications that people are taking psychiatric medications so people are taking that they really don't need yeah yeah and it keeps companies and also prisons well the second biggest industry yeah um because it's free labor and a lot of funding very Twisted yeah yeah it's it's awful that that aspect of it is terrifying it is terrifying and I mean I've been added I wrote a report on the whatever you call them the United Nations convention on drugs which is obviously created by America but 190 countries follow it actually even enough Americans one which is breaking it but doesn't allow the countries to break it um but not one word has been changed in yeah the last 20 years which is crazy which is crazy especially when considering what we know now yeah about the benefits of it yeah were you friends with Terence McKenna did you know him I knew him yes yes yes what did you think of his stoned ape Theory um now what was that the stone Dave theory is the theory that ancient hominids um when the rainforest receded into grasslands they started experimenting with different food sources one of the things they started doing was tipping over Cow Patties to find grubs and beetles and on those Cow Patties psilocybin mushrooms to grow yeah and that they started eating those and that it increased visual Acuity it increased their uh arousal States and that they also think glossolalia and so many different the formation of language so many things came about from that yes I mean I wouldn't put it exactly the way he put it but I would say that we know animals we know that reindeer eat mushrooms yes and as mushrooms exactly as they are toxic um the king reindeer drinks the Pea of the drug which had gone through like the big boss of the village yeah get all the members of The
Village to take this psilocybin first or whatever and then drink the urine of cleaned out yeah um good the clean version well the reindeer also does that and so animals have taken it I think I think that psychedelics for an integral part of homo sapiens Evolution if you see what I mean I don't think it's the only feature at all but I think it's yes one of the major uh you know the the development maybe of the mirror neuron was very important and went out to other things but um I think that's a major lift I think at the center of human culture is the experience of Altered States of consciousness is he attributed to the increase in brain size he believed that you know because of the neurogenesis properties also psilocybin he thinks that it may have contributed to the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years I I mean I I definitely think all of those things are showing I I don't I mean he was a poet he wasn't yeah um politically yes um so I mean he talked to a lot of rubbish I know that because I went to a lot of conferences with him and I I knew it what did you think was rubbish well I can't remember but exaggerated thing the time zero whatever yeah time wave zero yeah but at the same time he's a very good poet and he had a lot of very you know deep thinking well he was very compelling yeah absolutely and that's wonderful yeah and he got a lot of people to be interested in psychedelics because he was so interesting too yeah and now a very good presentation an unusual voice too yes wonderful yeah Irish yes very very good very good um yeah but yeah I I think these compounds are integral to where human Homo sapiens has got to and I think the disaster is that we started repressing it I mean obviously even at the time of Jesus it was kept secret yes he was always kept secret even at eluses which went on for 2000 years
they kept it secret probably that's why um Socrates had to commit suicide because he had it with his boyfriend at the dinner parties do you know um it was only to be used sacredly for the ceremonies yes which I actually think um I mean so I think that's an incredibly important part of it the ceremony but I think also as an elixir when we get knowledgeable about how to use these compounds they're just amazing Health Mental Health alexias hmm and I think um I mean I'm obviously as I get older very very interested in how one can hopefully um delay the and it's all based on blood you know as we get older the blood supply gets worse to the brain so how does one keep the supply of energy as as topped up basically in the most beneficial way for the animal yeah and I think funnily enough the cerebral circulation is out fashioned um because we discovered about the cerebral circulation whenever we did 100 200 years ago it's considered old-fashioned so modern South really isn't interested in the blood um actually you know everyone knows blood goes up blood comes down but um there's very little interest in it I mean I worked with one of the leading Russian Founders who was on their space program and was the leading World expert on cerebral circulation involving cerebral spinal fluid and the relationship with a cerebral spinal fluid and blood we worked together for about six years and then he died in coffee at 80 something which was a tragedy actually because he also was very interested in the kind of related thing of the possible increase impulsation brought about by trepidation which is a very ancient practice which maybe brings the level of cerebral circulation back to Childhood level Which is higher than the adult level we should explain trepidation to people because
trepidation is a very ancient practice of drilling holes in uh in one's head and you decided to do you were in your 20s when you did this um yes and what what influenced you to do that like what was the motivation well it very often way I prefer not um talking too much about it not because I'm not in favor of researching it but because I haven't done the research so I can't say look this is been proven by sounds which Until then people didn't believe psychedelics worked we're going to say that's um gazebo fantasy only that when you're showing sounds then it it worked but anyway the hypothesis is that when we are born as we know know there's the Fontanel of Jehovah which close soon and you can see the pulsation in the Fontanel hole of the baby you couldn't see foreign and then the holes close but the sutras the bones are quite flexible so there's still the full pulsation the full systolic pulsation is happening then as you grow and the bones grow together slowly slowly some of the pulsation is suppressed because it hasn't got the room to explain so the hypothesis of trepidation which has been done now the earliest skull found is funny enough the archaeologists at Chauvet um Toby um they found a Japan skull of 25 000 years old and you can see if the person lived after the trepidation because the bone growth yes and softens so that's kind of I think I haven't been studying it for the last 20 years because I've been on the psychedelics too much right but I long talk because it's very close to what I want to do do we know the origins of trepidation do we know that how it was we know it's the oldest operation in the world that it's done all around the world it's very much associated with um religion Mr film um
very often the scholars which are Japan have a special burial they are buried in a in a pot or with a silk around their eyes showing that they're either priest cast or Royal cast or some thing um but they're very present in every culture which is interested not very pleasant but present and the the biggest um mass of Japan scalps funnily enough I think it's on the German Dutch border I don't know why but um from what time period the history I I I'm afraid my memory's back and I haven't been studying it lately but the thing is wherever you look there's there's I mean the third eye the the thing in your picture um I was told by her thing is a is a visualization of the third eye and one of the High um with the high aims of Buddhism and spiritually is by meditation opening your whole in the scalp and that's in beautiful old Tibetan art showing um energy coming in and out of the hole in the head so it's always been the Pres why I think the priest cast was associated with it because I think that on the Hollywood the priest cast which took the compounds to get high whatever they were mushrooms or God and the danger of getting high when you come down you have a bad time maybe you flip out but have a bad time and I think it would probably observe that the people with the fractured skull or wound or whatever it was a hole in my head actually slightly kind of rose to the top in the village in the thing they became the doctors or the shamans or um it seems to have an advantage because like in Mexico's everyone grows up with skulls you know they have skull there's a there's this Day of the Dead skulls they're not real they're real no right well I I've seen I mean because I was interested in I've seen quite quite a lot of skulls in fact I've even got
one which is I think it's I can't quite remember 400 700 BC wow an Irish Chieftain is meant to be um and this got actually six holes wow and why anyone wants to do six holes I have no idea some of them are quite large too yeah yeah but I think I I pass I think that the change it happens with one hole all you need is for the membrane to be able to expand on the heartbeat and I think what the restoration at the point of trepidation is allowing that expansion on the heartbeat to the full expansion of the systolic pressure which the child has until it starts to close over come with 13 onwards the child comes down 21s average the skull closes and that's often when the mental problems start after 21s all of those things um you're just at a slightly lower level in terms of energy for the brain and what I want to do it's very easy research to do termination because people are doing it in hospitals every day by the Thousand if any brain operation first you have to Japan the skull right so it's happening all the time so we could very easily actually I work with some very top level um scientists from Mexico and I want to get that study going again and particularly doing it for headaches migraine because um it used to historically in my father's encyclopedia which is whatever 19 12. I can't remember when it was something like that um it said trebinations blah blah blah been done throughout history and it is still currently being done with apparent success for the treatment of mental conditions migraine so until um in the first world war they did the first lobotomy and that stopped trepidation as just an old wives tale so in a sense they threw up the baby with the bath water and I think that there is something then it's quite easy to do so I'm I'm my
I'm trying to find the possibilities and I really want to do this research um with Japanese funny enough years ago I was at Burning Man and I had a campaign um Paulo parlor was an old friend of mine and he got a lot of rather important people to sign up that they wanted to be Japan and we were going to do and you know so getting people to Japan legally in a research program but it never happened but um what I want to say is that for instance Jamie my husband got to pound and um how long ago did he do that how long ago how long ago did he do it um long time ago I mean soon after we got together and very difficult to find we were looking for someone in Egypt and found a wonderful surgeon there actually who did it who's very interested in the kind of mathematics of uh pyramids and things and um he had terrible headaches all his life he lost the Dale to a week on headaches after his trepidation he doesn't have headaches wow and I think it just gives back to the body and the Brain that extra pulsation which means I mean you have it from all that exercise you do so constantly you're getting that extra blood to the brain through your exercise um but for those of us who don't do all that exercise it's good to have alternative ways of keeping the blood going that's got to be a big factor in the runner's high yeah because in Runners high and they they achieve these states of elevated Consciousness that's right yeah I met one I'm sure you've met plenty but who runs then I think he said a 100 um 40 also some enormous number 100 miles or something and he said at a certain point he had a breakthrough where he got into a kind of real altered state of consciousness and I'm sure one day look into all these things endogenously yeah I mean obviously that's what meditation is doing is training you to do your own way of getting high and monks and people um they productively spent 30 years of their life doing it and I think that's wonderful but for those of us who
would like a quicker technique I think there's nothing wrong than learning to use a non-toxic substance sure to help us get up there yeah and so I think funnily enough I think the new how I look on it it's all about feeding the brain with enough energy mitochondria working where to produce that mental Cell Energy so that we can keep our function close to the optimal that's what we want hmm or anyway not allowing it to drop too low right and that's what I think is the purpose in a way not not the only purpose at all because I mean there's I actually think psychedelics have value in a lot of different non-specific areas one is self-realizations experience Beauty love of beauty love of sound love of people love yeah I think it increases compassion and empathy and nature love and all of those rather good human qualities um so I think it has the sensible use of the psychedelics by that I also mean cannabis I mean the Consciousness altering techniques and I think there's people who do it purely by meditation oh to be very much admired because it's wonderful not to need an outside thing to just to be able to do it within your own self yeah like a hot bath and a freezing bath or any of those techniques obviously change your level of Consciousness by bodily reactions yes but also I think the youth of the psychoactive compounds we can you know tune it so it's a very very carefully regulated I mean self-regulated um operation you can dial it in yeah you can you can control it yeah and I feel very grateful for many things in my childhood but one of them was that I was my father's companion and he was a diabetic and he was an artist so he didn't like his sugar level going high because then you lose your sight and this Terror was going blind so he always kept his sugar level low he said every day he was getting short of carbohydrates for falling in a ditch she was driving a car he drove over the
center of roundabouts you know he did all sorts of funny things when he was short of carbohydrates and my job was putting the sugar in his mouth and so I got a very good relationship of knowledge of how the glucose level controls your level of concentration if you like and how important it is so went about this Dutch scientist told me his hypothesis of the psychedelics increasing the volume of blood in the brain comparis and particularly if you're doing a cognitively demanding activity you use a lot of glucose and the sugar level Falls therefore you need to keep the sugar level normal by increasing the intake and actually all those years before it was legal I'm really left on LST when I say live I meant on big doses every day we were you know we really lived and I was like how high is myself on myself I was doctor and patient and it read the whole of whatever Freud like did you make me you just did you take a journal during that time not a journal but I did diagrams of you know yeah and I watched myself I overcame for instance um I I was very tall as a child to a brother again hated being taller than everyone else so about 13 I started smoking um cigarettes behind the bushes so I was pretty Addicted by a time I met that when I was 22 or 23 I can't remember pretty addicted and he said what a horrible habit it is once mine smoking so then I said well I'll give up and so I took a trip of LSD with the intention I'll stop it's a horrible habit just give it up and I never smoked another cigarette and so do you remember when you did that when you took the LSD with the intention of giving up cigarettes do you remember what what happened to you do you remember yeah I do I remember sniking a cigarette during the trip and thinking yeah disgusting I remember when I was a child young child smoking maybe one feel a bit sick when I had to repress the feeling of sickness and then I was gosh it makes
me feel sick yeah and then yeah yeah so I gave up and 40 years later whenever when I was talking to Roland Gifford funny enough I had I think it was ten thousand dollars to to do a research program so I went to um Roland at that time said I got this he said oh what would you like to do what would you suggest so I said well what about overcoming nicotine addiction I did that with LSD we could do it we still assignment time and that was the basis of the um study which is I mean I remember the first it was the first law it was 80 success rate and no yeah 80 success rate I don't know what it is but it's an extraordinary successful because actually nicotine is more difficult to give up than heroin because we're always repeating it so I experimented in those years when we were living on Thursday we we worked that was our passion we were studying the human brain and the self and the T-shirt I've got for you is um the mottos know thyself and that was what one was doing trying to understand how we work better at that level and how we can enhance our working and um I just think there's a lot more to be learned about how we can if we concentrate more on giving the brand the energy it needs to function optimally how can we help that happen obviously exercise is one yes um I've always likely avoided the exercise of being being there you see um but um I have to say you know there are alternatives which can be used to the health of the person and I think it's a tragedy that one can't one talk about things more openly yes it's not easier to carry out research because I know having done it for now over 20 years or over 50 years trying to do research into psychedelics
how difficult it is I mean in order for me to do it I realized I had to stop being Amanda Fielding no letters after my name no money so who am I and become a foundation funnily enough it was a very clever conceptual artwork because in England it's very kind of liberal England you pay whatever it is and you've become a foundation that's often that I was living or something suddenly you're a foundation you don't have to have any money you're just a foundation registered the Scotland have registered and then I got the top scientists in the world 10 15 of them including Albert Albert Hoffman and Sasha Shogun but the more important brothers were they established one ones like um um I wouldn't have always look at his name he was wonderful Colin Blakemore who was kind of top neuroscientist in the world at that point and he very much that what we were going to start a center at Oxford study again but that was going to cost four million and we couldn't get it and various other high-level scientists I had a very impressive Advisory Board and so then I gave Seminole series of seminars at the House of Lords where I'd had precedence and blah blah blah all the head of neither head of the Russian people and asked themselves if they could come so 70 invited people came to discuss Global drug policy that made quite a difference that went on for 10 years or something and then I went to the whatever National what would you call it um anyway I advise certain governments and things on drug policy United Nations went there regularly trying to change things so through this Foundation yeah yeah if you don't mind when you had your own personal experience with trepidation what was that like what did it do for you yeah um it was um sorry can I jump on five sure um I remember
I mean no one wants to drill a hole in their head on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon I can tell you it is not something I'm a very cautious person and so I I had a deep interest in it because I had very deep understanding of the hypothesis of blood supply and I was interested in researching it then um um my partner Joe Mellon um at that time he was very keen on Japan and himself and he was a second son so he kind of was a bit more casual Cavalier about it than I was and so I had quite a few missed shots oh no before he finally got through and um funny enough then I did notice a difference and the difference is very subtle you really have to know a person to notice it but how I'd Express it is it's slightly lowers the neurotic characteristics if you see what I mean they become I mean they don't they don't eliminate them in any way but it lowers it and so having seen the difference because part was Japan before I knew him so I never experienced the change but when I saw the change in July I thought well it does make a difference so I had thought I'd find a doctor so I'd spent four years looking for a doctor to Japan and I had people who said they were ordinelli and then they said I've got men just have a hole in his other head he would have given us one or you know and well it could be bad for my career and Harley Street if it came out or if you died or you know whatever yes and so it didn't happen so then I thought well I'm a Sculptor I'll sculpt my own skulls and see what happens so I really studied it because I'm a very very cautious person and in London strangely the the shop was called down Brothers it's off Holly Street and has all the instrumentation for trebonation very uh old shop actually and Charming staff there who show them in detail how you Japan because I went in as a interested Observer and so I learned how to do it very cautiously
that three layers of bone and etc etc I learned how to do it so I felt competent to do it and that took quite a long time deciding I was competent and confident I could um and do it so I decided to make a film with it because I thought that will can separate me from the unpleasant of doing such a silly thing and so I made I put enough my great aunt just died and given me 70 pounds and I bought a lovely little movie Super 8 camera and set it up and I had my beloved body always with me so he he was an observer of this thing and there was all sorts of story which I went with the time which was amazing because because we were asked to a party by rather kind of Guardian journalists top journalists in England for the Saturday night I had been planning on doing it on the Sunday but I moved it forward so I thought it would be good publicity for the movement if I I am anyway I moved it forward and then there was electricity strike in England so if I hadn't moved it forward the electricity would have been cut which was there's a kind of good little trick or beating fate to do it so anyway I did it very very carefully with a handrapan in the mirror perfect little operation what kind of was it a drill drill electric drill but I use a ball with a flat bottom so it couldn't damage the membrane because obviously what was frightened of is damaging the membrane surrounding the brain right I mean I don't want to go into detail with the door but um all I can say I I did it I knew the second I was through because the second you're through this no resistance and it had a flat bottom so it couldn't I mean it's not something mom wants to do at all but it's it's kind of like people go skiing people go horse riding just the same danger you know it's a danger possibly the infection is the only danger that's an edge um and I always say no one should do it themselves it's a footage thing to do um but then the when I'd finished I
banished up uh we went out and had a steak for dinner to replace the Lost blood and then went to this party and um the photograph which I don't know if you know of his body on my shoulder was the evening that that came out of the Super 8 movie um so I've seen the images yeah but I haven't seen apparently you've never released the video I never released it and the person who made the film actually as always conned one um so I I'd forbidden to let the images out on public thing because I didn't want I didn't want anyone doing it right and funnily enough why did you not want anyone doing it because I don't think self-tribution is a good idea but you did it yeah but I'm me you know I took trouble not to and funny enough then um when I did an artwork in New York about it at PS1 because at that period I was trying to educate the world through ART and I had this exhibition appears fun um of the slides Norm was great it was like an Egyptian tomb it was lovely the Norms of them they gave me it and um apparently people were queuing up including people like um Warhol and Bernard bedelucci couldn't get in blah blah blah it was a kind of pleasure hot movie at that point and people fainted they said in the papers like right plums falling to the ground but wow then um 60 Minutes did a film of it of me and wanted to film me back at Beckley with birdie with my pigeon who was never in a cage was always free and um so they threw me home on Concord because I was pregnant with my oldest son Rocky and birdie was very um strong sense of justice and I had broken the cold of Love by going away so if I went away he punished me until the the punishment have been done so when they flew me back from Concord he wouldn't come down from the hospital anyway they made this film and he was very pleased very nice director and then
it was um as it always when one did something which was well done it was um um not allowed to go out because the lawyers said there'll be a epidemic of people compelling themselves were you worried about that were people copying you no no no not really just too crazy yeah too crazy what was your personal experience like what was it like after it was over sorry you asked me that um described it at the time was it was like the tide coming in there was a kind of Stillness in the brain that internal endless internal conversation of basically the ego calm down now of course one can explain all of those things could happen anyway just from relaxation of having that finished it blah blah um so what difference does it make I would say it makes a slight difference it's slightly like the energy I mean I watch children children have that extra energy you know they do those leaps and clouds and play around and that energy adults don't energy is a more difficult thing and when I became 21 I'd had one of my trips to Egypt where I live very wild I don't know and I thought I got Bill Hearts here which is the worm you get drains your energy and I went when I got I was 21. I I went got myself tested thinking I'd caught it but I hadn't then I realized that that was adulthood it's a slightly lower level and very often that's when people have their first schizophrenic experience or some mental thing after that it's a down slight down um there's a slight exuberance and that's what I noticed after but the the difference is so slight I couldn't swear on it at all how long did the difference last well you don't you only notice the difference you don't notice the chain the do you see what I meant yes so now I can't say have I got any advantage is my whole clothes is it open did it I I can't say have you ever got looked at to see if it's closed um no um I I tried to actually and it was very difficult to do I'd like to do that it's
a very small hole though right well I've it was that big okay so a quarter of an inch a couple millimeters it was wide enough all you need is for the heartbeat to express itself that is all about the expression of the heartbeat and it takes half an hour if if if it was shown to increase cranial compliance which is what I worked on with this professor Yuri boskalenka who was the leading professor and those things he thought yes it increases cranial compliance and that's just that slightly healthier state to be in and so it takes half an hour to do in hospitals with no stuff if the surgeon doesn't have to do it do you know what I mean it's a nothing operation um so if that can slightly raise the level of energy going to the brain for the rest of the life it's valuable tool but do you think that these people that have multiple holes in their head is there um like a point of diminishing returns I I should think they had big grain or some terrible thing which went on and they're trying and tried to oh yeah I think something like that um um because I don't see the the logic of it says you only need one to get the expansion back but that's why I actually don't talk about it now because it sounds so crazy right that's the problem is this yeah it sounds great Optics yeah yeah it's not good Optics until you've got it proven which I actually seriously want to do because what I do it is on on Research with people with headaches immigrants addicts whatever some of them because that's one of the things that all cultures who did it one of the things they did it for was headaches and Insanity they in the old days they said it's letting Devils out another indication is letting light in because often people in the mythical tradition where Japan so I was I I actually before I hit the bucket I would really like to have done that research because maybe no one else will be motivated to do it right has anyone been motivated to do self-trepidation that you were friends with or that you're yeah I know quite a
lot not a lot of you I mean and then they started saying oh so that's why I found it very good surgeon um brain surgeon and team in in Mexico who did it hated it for certain people but and people wrote back saying it had altered there like you know I think do I think it has a fact or not I'd say I I wouldn't be humiliated if it didn't but I think it does that's my opinion for instance changed my dream pattern after I'd done it I use our very anxious dreams which very often were about birdie my beloved birdie getting killed it somewhere after the German age I didn't have those extra screams so that's something which I couldn't control anyway I think it makes a difference so I'm in favor but we need to do the research yeah it's a fascinating subject it's just fascinating that it's existed for so long yes and very much associated with religious practice basically um whatever you know very often funny enough this in Mongolia some Japan skulls and nearby is a very beautiful this is very early I forget busy long 700 Maybe a little beautiful basket with cannabis rather high THC cannabis in it I mean I think they go together um the trepidation you know like in Mexico there were there were lots of trepidations and they went with the kind of spiritual practices it's very fascinating to me that from the moment human beings have discovered Altered States Of Consciousness whatever that was that it's always been a part of this desire to sort of escape the confines of modern Consciousness or of natural consciousness is to kind of slightly expand yes slightly get back the childhood experience yeah Joy Wonder Joy wonder I do think it's sad and I think it's still that and I think that's a very healthy urge yes and I think therefore we should I really seriously think we should do research entrepreneurship
which I can very easily do it just needs ethical approval that's the only problem do you think that it's warranted uh do you think that the use of psychedelics and psychedelic therapy can replace that that it's not necessary um no I don't think it replaces it I think there as we were on the ancient times they're they're complementary they're both both moving in the same direction of trying to increase the energy Supply to the brain yeah basically and I think that's very key fall ah future survival because at the moment I think we're at a very critical time because uh artificial intelligence is getting greater than our own yeah etc etc there's all sorts of forces which which kind of build the danger up yeah so we need internal growth to balance that technological growth yeah it's it's such a strange contradiction that today in a day where that growth is so necessary these substances are so demonized yes it's a tragedy and I rarely think it's the time and America is a force which forced it upon us for all the wrong reasons and we all know it and America knows it yeah um it was during the Civil Rights Movement they were they were trying to arrest the Black Panthers and and the Civil Rights activists and yeah yeah all the anti-war activists and that was one of the ways they could do it yeah and it's the way to enter any country you want to like Afghanistan or or Latin America or any country you couldn't go and raid and spray and kill and capture you know it was wonderful the CIA loved it and you know and so it was which is so ironic considering that they did so many LSD experiments yeah and then through the people who have troubles them out of the window and said they wanted to fly yeah that's such a typical I mean it's a tragedy the history of Altered States I mean like um the uh what you call the midwives used psychedelics to help stop bleeding they realized the vasoconstrictive property of these compounds so they were used in in childbirth and The Midwives they were
very often the people who were burned for Witchery and the ironic thing is when the witches were bought burnt then the villagers got a plague they called it The Witch's Curse of Saint vitus's dance where you shaken then you finally die and that's um that's ergot poison because the witches went out with their hat at the full moon and the hat would show the glow of the ergot from the light of the moon on the ergot had the hats do that they well they were kind of old they hid them I mean that's I think where the Hat story came because they collect the ergot by night because it's phosphorescence ah from the Moon and then the burning of the witches which was part of the Inquisition basically um um then they had these all full plagues of say invited his dance which was called the the curse of the poiled witch who'd been using their medication to help childbirth so it's quite ironic how the authorities Translate it wrongly I mean basically it was because the witch wasn't Gathering the ergot off the wheat so the villagers were eating the poison and therefore getting sick from the bread yeah that's uh that that was to me one of the most fascinating things about the Salem Witch Trials yeah is that they found out that there was a late Frost and when they examined whatever crops that they could find back then they did find ergot in them right and they think that that was partially responsible for that whole hysteria yeah yeah yeah and and it was very much intermingled with the Protestants uh the Inquisition between the religions and the whole thing came at the same time yeah so there's been a kind of tragedy I mean the point is those in power actually don't want other people taking these compounds like the Americans didn't want their soldiers taking acid right because it made the soldiers say gosh actually I prefer to be in the park with my girlfriend right than in some bloody wood far away getting shot right you know it's pretty Common Sense yeah in one common sense
yeah so it's it's a tragedy of the human faith I mean the tragedy of humanity that's is that we've developed this compensatory mechanism which has made us the genius that we are on we can do all these brilliant things we do but it also has made us this psychotic animal which is capable of great self-harm and somehow we need to balance it yeah and that's why I rather like the phrase the psychedelic age in the sense I don't mean everyone taking static and eggs and having a party I mean learning the art of how do you control your level of Consciousness and then how do you control that level so you could keep your concentration I don't go in for leery you know turn on and then I drop out I say turn on and drop in yeah you know do be creative yeah that was the problem with Leary that his philosophy and what he was espousing to people was it people felt like it was dangerous to civilization that people were going to ruin their lives they're going to drop out and they're going to become part of these hippie communes and yes it was all bad publicity badly played um yeah and in those early years in the whatever mid 60s when I started taking psychedelics seriously we took it for working I mean the stones would be playing about half a mile away from uh flat where I lived and still live for London we didn't bother to go to them because we're having such fun doing our work with studying the brand on acid um I don't know who who my mother yeah yeah um so I think that the youth youth I'm sure you and millions of other people know how incredibly inspiring for work the use of psychedelics can be yes you couldn't see things you never saw before you see because suddenly having more of the brain simultaneously active as our images showed the two third you can see this is the organ band this is the brand on psychedelics I've got those beautiful
things came from our study um the circus do you know the ones I've got a picture of it in my back um you can see the difference in the brain um and that can be used for whatever you're doing for whatever yeah creative thoughtful process you've suddenly got all that extra brain power yes to dedicate towards what you feel passionate about it's a superpower for stand-up comedy yeah for stand-up comedy so many of my comedian friends yes use it to write yes absolutely and I I I have an intimate relationship with Jamaica and the deep deep divers there's someone on the beach who said the one who wins that prize is his best friend and she can stay down there much longer than the best friend can because he smokes very heavily before he goes down cannabis yeah and he said that enables him to stop breathing for a much longer period hmm you know so I think whatever you do you can go you've got more passion more energy so that's the adult brain there on the left on the left um yeah what do these lines representing it's connectivity between different centers in the brain so wow this is when you're on a psychedelic it doesn't matter if it's set aside but don't LSD um when you're on it was certainly got this much more intimate connection between the different parts of the brain and so I think it needs training to learn to control that increased islamed riding an incredibly powerful horse you have to learn how you How do you how do you control it yes the brain is the same thing if you just go and take that you can have a wonderful look experience looking at the stars or having another music all of those things can be wonderful but if you want to use it for cognitive discipline which actually uses a lot of glucose because it's very late in in development so it's not part of the autonomic nervous system it's a part of the cognitive nervous system which burns glucose to get the energy to concentrate and so that's the importance of taking
the vitamin C and keeping the sugar level normal can I ask you a question about that um what about ketones what about the like I know many people they get on a ketogenic diet and their brain produces ketones and they feel like intellectually that's a superior fuel I think probably it is a very good fuel yeah I think there's a lot more will confident to be be learning about how you can energize the brain in better healthier ways yeah but I think a secret a basic Secret which I felt feel I was given the key to in 1966 when I learned about one can increase the blood supply to the brain and therefore give it all that extra energy to do have all the brain functioning and then it's a whole new art how do you how do you use that yes productively but I mean that's like being a magician magician brilliant magician sound they have to practice such a skill yes I I always say to be to to take psychedelics you have to be much more disciplined than not to take them it's much easier not to take them yes in a sense I agree with that yeah I think people have a misconception about what you're doing when you're taking psychedelics or when you're taking including cannabis as I think the common misconception is that you were avoiding reality yep and you are somehow or another giving yourself a crutch yeah I don't think it's that at all and I think that with discipline the use of psychedelics through this with discipline it it allows you to experience these states and get something from them and pull something from them and apply it yeah I totally agree normal Consciousness I totally agree it gives you an extra power like riding a more powerful horse yes you've got in your brain power there's is more there yes and so I mean I find if I'm in a really beautiful place if I'm in Egypt or or all those wonderful places with incredible beauty yeah it's almost an adult to the place not to be at your Optimum I say that all the time yeah I say that because when I go to art galleries I never go to an art gallery server no I quite agree yeah I always care no no point you don't I also feel that I mean it's people don't like this but I'm going to say it anyway I'd like
to be high around my children yeah because when I'm around my children I'm fascinated by them and things that maybe would be frustrating perhaps if I was sober instead are Charming yeah and I find them interesting and I'm I'm fascinated by their mindset and talking to them and yeah and you have much more in common with them yeah because you're on the same wavelength so you stay in yes contact with I adored having my children and the the greatest pleasure and I remember being at one of those conferences in Palenque or something and I think it was Terence McKenna's wife actually was giving a lecture or giving a talk very nicely and how when she was pregnant she gave up everything and I couldn't I hate public speaking I remember putting up my finger because I want you to say well actually when I was pregnant I didn't because I actually think it's good for my health you know I've taken enough of it that I really think exactly it's not like alcohol or cigarettes no no and my children I'm proud of my children and you know they are children of parents who understood the benefits of Altered States Of Consciousness yeah I've had those conversations with my children my youngest who are um 13 and 15. and they're at that age where you know children want to experiment with alcohol they want to experiment with drugs and I have conversations with them about ones that you should avoid and the dangers of things that may be contaminated with fentanyl yeah absolutely and that these organic compounds as long as you know the source that you're getting them from when they're psilocybin or yeah or particular marijuana yeah these These are they're not what everybody is telling you they are yeah and that's what's criminal and I do think criminal about the government because the all the governments the knowledge is out there these are non-toxic the the ones which are non-toxic yes and like in England people that on the mass can only buy the illegal marketing cannabis is taken over by certain breeders who breed only rubbish stuff and insensible person would never dream of smoking very high THC cannabis yeah which is [ __ ] and it's not good for young people to
smoke that right and it's it's um the authorities which are forcing the young people into that if they choose to smoke and I did a paper for I I design for the the government saying that if they as I hope they do regulate cannabis they should make very low tax food THC CBD balance and as it gets more and more strong tax it more because that will incline people to stop smoking this extremely hygiene do you think there's dangers in smoking a very high I mean not for grown-ups who know how to handle things right but I I I think it can be dangerous I believe so too and I think there's uh there's also some correlations between that and schizophrenic breaks that people who perhaps have a tendency towards schizophrenia when they have high doses yeah like THC they've had very traumatic experiences yeah yeah I think it should be encouraged a nice balance of THC CBD yeah well it's one of the good things about the legalization in California in particular because they relegated these um Edibles in particular to 10 milligrams which is a very sensible dose right it's just comfortable not too bad yeah you know and that especially in conjunction with all the cannabinoids with CBD and it's yeah wonderful yeah and that's such a wonderful step forward and it's wonderful it's happening in America but also quite ironic that America is still forbidding the rest of the world yeah it's crazy to do the same thing yeah it's and it really does need to change because it's holding up Humanity I'm hoping that with education the younger people are realizing what what it actually is and as these people go into public service yes they will go into public service with this new understanding of it absolutely and I think I I absolutely recommend you on the wonderful information you give to People by having such a wide reach and letting people who you think are right say what they think and slowly slowly it will seep through yes and come to the top and be the dominant well there's a propaganda narrative that's just very unfortunate that is permeated our society and it's incorrect yeah exactly that A Narrative of the um brain um LSD and I think cooking the brain and
the frying pan yeah this is your brain I remember once um having lunch with Peter Thiel and he was saying he was grown up with that and he couldn't get over it right I mean what rubbish rubbish a thing which is completely that isn't another compound I think which is so powerful Which is less toxic to me that that all took place during the 80s and the 80s culturally some of the worst artwork and music that the American society has ever produced during the influence of the just say no era yes and people always all the things we love not all the things but a lot of the things we love came out of the 60s spirituality Eastern spirituality yoga yes Health music music comedy yeah yeah even the automobile design and it was all on Ellis yeah it was fueled that changing and so I promised Albert Hoffman I said I'll but I'll read the state your favorite child you know LSD is a wonderful creation because it's non-toxic it's so controllable you know if the governments were doing what a government should do which is basically looking after their citizens like a good mother or father looks after their children yeah and therefore teaching them what they need to know like our children I've never frightened my children might become addicted because they know that from earliest days they know yes they're stupid yeah you know yeah right and also they benefit from you discussing like your addiction to cigarettes and how you got over it yeah yeah yes and and they saw how one when one did when it was legal you see compounds one was productive with it yes and it increases passion I mean I'm a workaholic so as am I yeah yeah and I'm a user yeah so it makes one want to achieve the work one can do yes yes I'm fascinated with American Automobile design I'm a I collect old cars yeah and there's a time period between 1965 and 1970 where there's some of the most amazing cars oh really ever and it's directly correlates I understand it drops off a cliff after 1970. how interesting it's fascinating because the those those cars from 1965 to 1970 to this day are the most cherished
collectors in the most beautiful designs yes that's very interesting funny enough in this talk I'm giving a few days of time in Denver I'm saying you can see um the markings of civilization you can see which civilizations had integrated Altered States Of Consciousness and which hadn't by their creativity production rather like in a tree you conceive by the Rings yes which are the years of drought yes the rain and sunshine and that's exactly it what you're saying in that in the the peak of beauty I want to show you something just so you could see this I want Jamie pull up a 1969 Mustang and then I want you I want to see a 1980 Mustang the difference is so Stark yeah it's amazing yeah and it's so clear that that time period directly correlates with the sweeping psychedelics acts of 1970 where they stopped yeah people using these things they made them forbidden and dangerous and that is a 1969 Mustang it's one of the most beautiful things that anybody has ever designed yeah it's fortunes yeah yeah I mean I look at that thing I'm like oh my God it's artwork now now show me a 1980. now this is just disgusting look at that clunky piece of [ __ ] what is that yes what the hell is that imagine yeah that you went from that yeah to that absolutely what the hell happened to us something's wrong yeah very very wrong and people attributed I mean God it's so gorgeous yes and people attributed to so many different things and one of the things they attributed to is like gas yeah being you know more efficient gas vehicle but not true because you could still make it beautiful and that is not beautiful that's an ugly yeah piece of [ __ ] yeah you're absolutely right and I think that's such a beautiful and I think you can tell it in culture I've been like whatever in um well the beautiful cultures sure you can see they were high they had that those lines in Chauvet yeah couldn't have been done by people who weren't High you know it's too um intuitive it is an intuitive expression I think one of the things that psychedelics do is increase the intuitive part of the brain and now I'm I've got a new program
at the moment I'm doing which is looking at LSD both in high doses and micro doses in the best and latest technology in the world we can give so in the high doses I'm wanting to do a research on the mystical experience and Anonymous experiences and it will be the first research to use um a Tesla 7 do you know what I mean by MRI yes it's usually a Tesla three all the research I've done is with the Tesla 3. is this fmri functional yeah and then one um does whatever how many people let's say 20 and one averages the results between the 20. what I'm going to do in this other one is use a 7 Tesla and personalize the data so it will only be person by person looking at the data and then it will be seven Tesla and a Meg Meg is the one which does that electrical you can see which centers of the brain are communicating with each other and then we'll have a very deep psychological one so you'll know when the person has some expression of the mystical experience or some other experience and you can see what's happening in the brain waves and the blood and markers so one will have it much more carefully analyzed than ever before because apart from just pure fascination interest it's valuable to know how do we encourage people who are having a psychedelic assisted experience to overcome treatment resistant depression or whatever to have that mystical experience so the more we can learn about how how how does that grow how does one how does one help the fruition of that experience the better yeah and then say well that's at the top level looking at those experiences I mean it's going to be so exciting which parts of the brain to look at and the whole different areas the hemispheres the blood supply the rich parts of the brain are actively activating in the highest way in that experience I once did an experience with a very high level Indian meditator lady and she really wanted to help me within a Meg one of those ones a hairdra and she told me after she came out beaming
she'd had the most wonderful Mr good experience while she was in the machine she said her best experience I've had with God for a long time and it showed a great burst of gamma in the right cerebellum which is very fascinating because the right everyone thinks the cerebellum is just nothing basic um balance and all those sort of things but actually I think it's a very highly much more fascinating than that and it's a mystical experience is rather like toad in the sun sitting on the start and the sun in a state of blissful happiness you know be very fascinating to actually know about more these different experiences that weaken as humans experience yes and how hopefully we can map them yeah and therefore learn how to get them more one of the things I was fascinated about with you is your discussions of your experiences on LSD playing go yes which is really interesting because you you said it made you a better player and go is an incredibly complex game yeah and that's why well over the last 50 years I wanted to and I will do a research on but it's very difficult to find go players who are used to functioning on a high level LSD do you see what because people don't hold the whole right so but I've got that in fact because girl as you know is is a pattern recognition it's an intuition intuitive game of pattern recognition I've never played it it's a wonderful game once you get into it hi you rarely get addicted to it because it's behind everything you can play Life On The Go board and you have a handicap so you know exactly where you are with the person you play against a numerical handicap yeah um the better player plays with White Stone so the worst player has its black which is slightly psychic it's more obvious so it's a better visual but it's a slightly less good psychologically and um then they have handicaps every three games you win they get one stone put down on the board first advance so anyway we we played passionately in the early 60s when LSD was legal and um at the end of day you know we were doing brain statues all day or whatever
we were doing and then go was there and we wrote down every game we played so we knew who won the school was and anyway I was a slightly better player than my opponent but if I was an LSD and he wasn't his handicap went up from three to six hmm you know so that's a lot of that's winning nine games that's a big right um big change and then it will come down again as he saw the patterns because it's a pattern recognition game right um and it's a wonderful game but I gave it up because you have to be passionate about it to keep playing right it's very taxing right yeah very taxi um there's a similar result with psilocybin in the game of pool pocket billiards right you you have more feel and you you know where the ball is going right right and you can understand angles and patterns yeah absolutely absolutely and I think Sportsmen I mean like Father by Jordan he loves cricket and he said he was a better bowler have you heard of the the um the pitcher who pitched a game on acid a No No Hitter Game On Acid no who who was that again Jamie it's a very famous story of a guy who uh he made a mistake yeah and got just too high he was and it didn't wear off and he went to the game here it is Doc Ellis yeah he took acid and pitched a no-hitter so like don't get his ball when he was not asking it just sounds so crazy that's exactly it I mean and you know that picture of the spider which came out in the 60s um the spider's web yes and I'm yeah I'm trying to recreate that study and see if you find that spider they gave the spider LSD yeah and um you know the caffeine one was absolutely chaotic it was so bad look at it the Cannabis one started off rather well then you're chaotic just like cannabis does happen but look at the Yellowstone must pass it better than perfect well look at the normal one though the normal one's pretty amazing too yeah but funny enough now I know the leading web person in the world is a donut Oxford who I've been talking about six years now to do this research but you wouldn't believe it to give a spider LSD when Ash get ethical approval oh that's
hilarious I mean that's funny and for eight six eight years we haven't yet got this there's nothing ethical about being a spider I know you can't believe it they're whole existing it's existence is unethical yeah they're trapping other insects exactly anyway so so far we haven't done it but I really want to do it this year because I mean maybe they were pulling our legs but it's a very interesting concept sure that even at the spider level it improves function yes um it would make sense that caffeine would be all over the place too the heart rate would be jacked up or whatever their central nervous system yeah yeah yeah but it's very there's so much we could do and that's why I I actually feel having lived with these substances of my passion my passion for 50 or six years and particularly LSB because I think it's the cleanest and I've known the best I've got a very good Instinct how to do it I've I've designed several studies I haven't talked about because I don't they shouldn't come out but I can see how it can help like the old woman without so much I'd like to just show you not to go on the show but to show you yes because the difference is so big when I showed it to the professor of geriatrics in Switzerland within an hour he said he wanted to do collaboration with me to do an Alzheimer's study with it because you can't fake someone's expression so from Deep apathy it goes to a sparkling little old lady and there's nothing conventional that that would replace that there's no no conventional medication no same sort of application and actually I'm working with um well a very nice man who's a sincere of the biggest care home in England which is a national health one and he'd heard about my research and fame with it he says 70 of his residence have Alzheimer's and there's nothing you can do and the suffering it causes them and their relations and their carers is devastating and it's getting worse and worse as we live longer and longer and it's stunning that there's something available yeah yeah and well after I'll show you because it is miraculous and so I've also got a very very good concept
for the perfect place because what I would like to do is with these conditions like I'd like to do Alzheimer's I also want to do autism I'll also Parkinson's you know I want to be able to fast forward these researches with the best doctors available scientists you know I can design them I know them I know that I know how they go and what I can see is it's very similar to a condition which we know historically which is called terminal Lucidity and I've been a studying that for the last year or two it's a well-known fact the people quite often just before death who are in coma or paralyzed or one of the conditions out of the picture for years suddenly we'll come back and just for the day and make jokes about when they were in the nursery and people you know who know them know they're that shop and I think what can happen with a micro dose is that you light up the connectivity between these different brand centers since suddenly the brain is functioning again I mean not probably functioning like um this old lady she came back her children said it was remarkable it was getting our mother back she had her wit wow her love her didn't you she said I feel so wonderful let's read some poetry you know wow from having been this vegetative state yeah and I think we can now get that going and what I want is the freedom to design to make the care home called the Beckley Harbor where people can go and be treated with these compounds to see if it suits them and see if it has the same effect as it had with this old lady and then we collect the data and then I would have wonderful trained doulas who entertain them and make it a wonderful place to be we'd have dogs and children and it would be like that's incredible you know they like being at home with lovely people who look after your emotional humor and you're given a micro dose personally fitted to suit you and what a superior experience that would be to the traditional nursing home yeah and then we'd find out does it suit and then one
could collect in a year and not a very big nursing home and this wonderful man in England said so long as it's legal he'll give me the nursing home to try it so I want the permissions to be able to do this yeah and then one could get a lot of people coming through and then one will give them home care so one would have someone visiting them at home as much as they need to maintain a safe and good program yeah anyway that we could do that yeah you know this is incredible so but it needs one the regulatory passport to do it and to the funding and both are there I mean there's so much money around it you know and everyone's getting old either the parents are all there and you know we should do these things speedily yeah not not wait 10 years until you know it takes two years even to get the paperwork done right for This research one year I wanted to talk to you about near-death experiences and there's a lot of speculation about what happens in the brain during near-death experiences because many people report things that are very similar to what what is like a breakthrough psychedelic experience yeah yeah well what I think is near death death the body kind of is in a state of extreme tunnel and it naturally endogenously lets out these compounds oxytocin um you know all the different compounds in the body which DMT maybe maybe there's you know then probably more than we've even discovered which give a shot of something serotonin um which is very similar to a psychedelic and that's why people can suddenly come out of a vegetative state shortly before death and that's what I'm saying I think that what I'm doing with microdosing is creating that effect without having to wait for the person to die poor person yes right one can do it on a protocol and that's what I'd like to research now that'd be amazing you know I've got some I've got proof of the thing that it happens you can't fake it you can't fake someone
coming back to life again in the look in the eyes so it's there and just let's get the space so legally we I could set it up with the best people like you know yeah I can set it up and we could do it and then if we get successful data we can opener clinics Care Homes which services and then hopefully the people can take the treatment home with them hmm one of the more bizarre things that comes out of psychedelic experience is contact with entities contact with what seems to be some other form of Consciousness what do you think is going on with that that I love your entity flashing across the ceiling oh that's a shooting star I have to tell people about that especially people that have had psychedelic experiences they think they're having a flashback sorry I didn't want you oh yeah but um what do I think certain compounds created more than others DMT yes much more LSD doesn't really produce entities right strangely it's it's I think it's uh um yeah and psilocybin does yeah but that's called DMT right which honestly that's why I love LSD LSD I think is more like a flower opening up I.E it's more of yourself right whereas DMT whether it's awasca or set aside into a lesser degree has this slightly dominating sound slightly uh I didn't really like the colors as much you don't not quite there's kind of moves and Brands and and I prefer the LSD colors you see you you see moths and Browns when you do DMT well I'm not a DNT person I mean I've done it yeah but I don't because I've seen very bright vivid colors I've not seen Mom haven't you seen the darker colors I find it slightly dark really interesting I was once in quite recently in the room of um session when people were doing it they're only 10 people in the room three of them were in uh um a Battleground a poor boy had had much too much of his creaming and yelling and getting burnt and the person who looked after it moves a very
practiced person in these things he then said to people actually I was a massacre myself yeah I mean Juno he was while he looked after the person but he's very well contained with his mask that's a huge still managed to look after them but I actually thought I don't really sir choose compounds which brings the tendency of those sort of experiences but I know people have wonderful experiences yeah and I've never had those negative experiences like that no my experience has been very Vivid and bright right yeah and enlightening right yeah and the right the entities are very colorful right bright colors and wild beautiful loving experiences right how lovely Yeah well yeah that's that's very lucky because I know people who've had horrible ones too but I mean obviously they come come and they go do you think that that's people struggling with the experience and trying to control it I'm sure trying to control it is uh is um not a good detrimental yeah um and I think people are very lucky who've never had a really bad experience I had a really bad experience when someone right back in the first year of by taking LSD someone who had actually turned Leary on to LSD who was a kind of freak not a nice person at all anyway I I he he had a vinegar bottle of sandals vitamin C I mean not uh honesty and he offered me some of it thanks I didn't want it anyway I didn't want him around and then he poured it into my coffee oh God without telling me Oh God and thousands of trips oh yeah and so I had a dying experience it was a really bad experience and you know once you cut a thing in the cell or the body you retain that pathway yeah that pathway so um I think people who've had really bad experiences and have got Pathways cut are more likely if they're given a psychedelic a fearful of getting down that root right do you think that's a memory retention like perhaps they remember the bad trip and then they start manifesting
it yeah and I think they definitely remember the question is whether they can remember it um and would you call it I've forgotten about it epidegenics which says maybe you can go on for generations of memory of trauma but I don't know if that's yeah but I quite agree with you I mean if you're someone who's never had a really bad experience you're much less likely to have it and that's a great gift and that's what we want everyone to be like most certainly yeah what do you think you're encountering like especially on DMT what do you think the entities are do you think that's a figment of the imagination do you think it's the Consciousness expressing itself in different ways through the visual cortex yeah like what yeah um what do you think is actually an entity I I I know Sean of uh and he says he who is considered in the Diamond Center Diamond Church they consider entities a deflection of attention better not to go into the world than tattoos really but a lot of people love the entities yeah and so I don't know um my someone's had an entity experience with our Oscar and um The Entity told him why why do you have so many such a collection of um sneakers yes which he does he's got a passion for singers I don't know I'm not an expert on entities yeah I always wondered if maybe that's your own Consciousness recognizing that you're obsessing about a thing yeah I think there's that I I think there's that element about it I I think I mean I think there's I'm hoping this Versace I'm doing on the mystical experience I think anomalous experiences like telepathy telepathy I know happens to my own satisfaction I mean no doubt how so because with my pigeon lover we were lovers for 15 years passionate lovers in Tesla wasn't Tesla in love with the pigeons I think he was yeah why pigeons well it just so happened that his mother died on on the window ledge
and a Joe went to collect her body we were trying to feed her and there was a little day old fledgling without her any feather so you raised it and he um he shouldn't have lived because he didn't at that age but I fed him a warm milk Weetabix on a paintbrush and she became I mean he he was he became just obsessive and he became the boss and Joe said to me let's get rid of this pigeon this creature we're going to have him and says let's put him out because we're going to have him forever and I went and brought him in again and sure enough we had him forever he lived for 15 years wow but he was then killed I always knew he'd be killed somehow and the interesting thing I won't tell the story because it's too long but I knew before he died and I said out loud to him as he flew by I said buddy I love you more than anything else in the world that was the last thing I said to him and then he died and I knew he did I was painting a picture I was a massive painting a picture I suddenly had this thing and so I did what I had never done though stop painting and went down to look for him anyway it turned out um my father who was also a very con in on those sort of things but he was very fond of had lost his temper with the old Carmen we had for 50 years and told him to go and cut these effing Nettles somewhere and in the Nettles was birdies still warm body so I knew before it happened and he knew within 10 minutes of it happening I mean how many dead birds do you get see how the other I mean the birds dying all the time they're not eaten you'd never Trace them right um body and then once we took birdie camping years before that anyway it's another story but he flew off and then I did a national I got an English BBC news I said he was a hero antonioni's new film and because I put adverts in the time that everywhere looking for beloved gray London pigeon I got thousands of people
saying they had him and we went all over England collecting these wretched pigeons which were meant to be buddy and then I so then I went up to the television and did this petition for Birdie on the television on the news because I said he was the starved Antonio's new film I also Anthony if I could do that and he said yes and so the BBC was jammed with telephones seeing people finding the same body and then I was really upset because they said they never introduced whatever people who bring in to people looking for fear of something anyway so I was incredibly sad because of what the point of the whole thing the whole point was to get buddy back and then there was one telephone call which came through which came from the police station and because birdie had landed on a washing line of a man who didn't have a telephone so he didn't do his own telephone he sent his son to the police station saying he had birdie and because it was the police's line it got through to me and that was Buddy oh did you see what I mean multiple things of telepathy and other things I mean I'm in New the telepathy exists I think it probably does in some way I think it's an emergent property of human consciousness that's not quite fully formed I think it's there but we because of our egos we we don't sense it yeah I mean because like animals know when there's going to be a Fifth Harmony no animals die and this is the army they all go up the mountains right well humans don't have that sense yes because we've got too much noise in the brain so I think we've got the sense but we don't use it right or don't know how to use it right so I think it's there and I I love those sort of things I'd love to know I think they work with the same centers from the brand as their mystical experience so by learning more about the mystical experience one can hook on to learn more about anomalous experiences um you know like I know uh a Buddhist monk who can shoot
electricity kind of thing I mean strange things which are inexplicable at the moment but it'd be very interesting to find out so you think that these are probably the abilities that we have but they're stifled by ego they're stifled by noise they're stifled by anxiety they're stifled by yeah I think they're they're probably skills that you have to design I mean it is a funny thing that animals aren't ever killed by his army right they just have the interesting to go up out of the way before it happens that they have some some sense yeah I think things like telepathy happen with two things passion love love passion I.E connection and threat I think they put the the um tendency the the the sense of more likely to sense it if it's like that I mean that's why I passion for birdie and it was when he was in danger on several occasions I found him when his wings were trapped um do you see what I mean right like you sensed it yeah you have this connection with them yeah and I've had it with humans too but it's usually threat to life a kind of adrenal threat yes obviously sends a a message yeah if you're there ready to receive it and one of the things about Ayahuasca was when they were first recognizing it they they tried to call uh one of the compounds of a telepathine yes yeah but then they realized that it had already been named it was already harming right right we did the first I did the first for such with Amin which someone called Jordi Riva who's a wonderful Spanish scientist and um on um neurogenesis we showed that it increased neurogenesis right yeah yeah yeah it's interesting we're gonna find out so much hmm and he committed suicide sadly wow which is a tragedy because he was a great scientist but yeah there's so much to understand
and I think we're Etc incredibly interesting sphere of Investigation yes because these things are all on the on the cusp of where we are and where we can go to in the future yeah and I think that's why it's so wonderful that someone like you is out here with this passion for doing this research and wonderful that yours is spreading information about these things to people because what it has to get out there that people are actually interested yes and then Force our politicians in a nice way but you know to change it really needs to be changed it does and because I I do think I mean I think the use of cannabis and psychedelics can enhance one's relationship with one's partner one can help see the other Viewpoint to help kind of get over difficult periods yes I think it can do that with Walling countries yes I think you know empathy increases empathy it increases the possibility we know from the fact we've done and other people have done too that they've made amygdala is lowered particularly with MDMA the fear so you can approach things which are fearful like trauma better I mean there's so many different pathways let these compounds can help enable Humanity to get to their healthier Noble more Creative Expressions of themselves I mean the number of people I know and I bet you know many more who've said it changed their lives their experience changed mine yeah and mine and mine I mean I didn't think I I know I couldn't have done what I've done without what I got from these compounds giving me the extra energy and understanding and and that's what I think should be there I I passionately think psychedelics are a gift of the Gods and inverted cons it's it's a it's a natural gift which shouldn't be expensive we must keep it so it's affordable yes to the poorest and the rest of the world and because that shouldn't be difficult it costs nothing right I started I've tried started illegal Beckley labs to make top level
um compound which uh but both times something happened I never had the money to have a legal so I never had a legal agreement so actually the person always did the dirty on me when it just got going so it never happened but I wanted to happen because the purpose would keep it low price do you know yes I mean people have to make money getting a compound through phase three costs hundreds of millions so as governments aren't paying one very lucky to have people who invest money to do it yeah but then one wants to try to make sure that the investment doesn't stop other people being able to have benefits they don't have Monopoly over it yeah how how we work out how you do the research get it done and the whole thing is maintained in a ethical sort of way so it's not going to be a sport of the rich people only right it's going to be democratized and that's the benefit of the rich people as well and the rich people are the ones who hopefully are those who take the risk of as the government's then do it of putting their money in to make the studies happen yes but really governments should be encouraging I mean to give the British government they did fund uh depression study second time round to give them there too and I and I know that 90s now but I mean it's a pittance one's needing a lot of money to allow I mean I do studies I do them fantastically cheap I think since I started the battery 25 years ago I think maybe my they've been with 20 years I think she said it's I've had about I the beckley's had about five and a half million pounds in total so for 25 years that's amazing yeah and I've done a lot of the Breakthrough research but I'm now the age I am and you know I can't go on forever working 15 hours a day right and I would like to be able to do what I can do now which is a lot because I know the compounds so well I know well their strengths where to use them do you know yeah and it's such fun doing yeah who knows like playing girl yeah one last thing yeah yeah and it's a much more interesting game because then maybe one can help
um deal with Alzheimer's maybe one can help there's all these conditions which I think these compounds can help just Elevate Humanity in general yeah exactly and not only for treating people but elevation I think that's absolutely as important and that's why it has to not have to be only be a medicine it's a medicine which is essential but it's also an Elixir yeah to make the human animal the upright talking ape a bit less of an idiot yes yes I think that's a great way to wrap this up thank you very much I really really appreciate you being here and I really appreciate everything you've done it means so much to just to the whole world well thank you very much for asking me um if someone wants to learn more about your research where should they go well um Foundation but I have we have you know we're a tiny organization so we can never I mean I hardly ever look at the website and do you see what I mean yes what I would they can help because I can do a lot of wonderful search I've got a very good tiny tea but I want to do more research and make things happen so you want people to contribute so there's a problem if you go to the beckleyfoundation.org in the upper right hand corner there's a donation button you can support psychedelic research you can donate from anywhere in the world UK tax deductible donations U.S tax deductible donations donate via bank transfer cryptocurrency Apple pay amazing well I've never seen it but well done it's really comprehensive but but it'd be lovely if it starts to work because it's particularly difficult now that business because people think why put money in a bottle as well where one could put it in a well which could Sprout yes but I think there's an advantage in philanthropy because one's not Guided by profit at all and private Guided by the knowledge we can get that's it and then that can become profitable yes thank you very much thank you for being here I really appreciate it and thank you for asking my pleasure thank you all right bye [Music] [Applause]
thank you okay