Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7CJoGKvx3U
Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day and we're up hello Eric good to see you my friend hello Joe so we should tell everybody this podcast came about from what time in the morning was it when I called you it might have been one of them late night ones wasn't it well they all run together but um a late night freak out UFO conversation I was like dude we got to do a podcast about this because it out of all of my friends that actually can understand physics and explain it you you you comprehend it at a very high level so if for things like this to be puzzling to you to the point where you actually want to talk about it well I I I don't want to talk about it because I got dude I got this one so wrong for years I mean there is no trace of me talking about UFOs I think before three years ago because I can't stand the topic unlike the rest of you this thing hits very differently well I should say then I've gone back and forth yeah I know abandoned it for a long time until I watched the Bob Lazar documentary when uh Jeremy Corbell made that Bob Lazar documentary I was like God damn it they got me back in again they drew me back in again I don't think I don't know if there's ever uh footage of me saying the words Bob Lazar there it goes there you go I know but um I would love to I would love to facilitate that dinner oh let's do you and Bob Lazar I don't know why you know there's always this question about is Bob Lazar a physicist was he trained at these places and I I have to imagine that that's an easily resolvable question because you can tell whether somebody is a physicist pretty quickly I would that's why I can't it's like you know you know what it's like it's like fake black belts there's a lot of fake black belts and if you're a real martial artist you watch it and you go what the [ __ ] is this guy doing this is hilarious but some people who don't have any understanding of martial arts oh my God this guy's a death touch he just touch you behind the ear and you fall asleep and people believe it yeah I I thought I would just skip everything and go right to the fivepoint exploding heart technique yeah so that is how I am when you know physicist I'm like I don't know what you're saying I can't verify or
deny well so but Bob Lazar is a very impressive person to talk to and what's what's really impressive to me is that he's had the same exact story right since the 1980s and the new footage of these crafts that show them rotating 180 degrees before they take off is exactly how he described so we how do you want to ease into this we just got what what got you curious about it if you had just decided that it was all horeshit like what changed your perspective okay this is a really weird and interesting question I had a different puzzle that I've been working on for years which has to do with physics and is important to me in my work and what I what I care about which is there is this crazy history between around 1953 and 1973 with a an explosion of activity sometimes goes under the name of uh the Golden Age of general relativity where general relativity was sort of put in final form in the teens by Einstein and uh um also Marcel Grossman who never gets the credit for the original papers I think in the on general relativity isn't that always the case yeah it's always like some guy behind the scenes that actually wrote for Shakespeare I Einstein is the genius but he had a mathematical friend whose father saved Einstein I think got him the patent job so he's in the and there's like a meeting called the Marcel Gman meeting so he's a shadowy figure on the edge of the Einstein Legend I don't think he deserves the credit Einstein did but if you look at the first paper in general relativity before Einstein says anything concrete the first paper he says something vague that's 1913 and that's with Grossman the next paper he says something wrong he publishes the wrong equation then he corrects the equation and it's incomplete because it doesn't have the cosmological constant and I think it's four papers before he has the equation that now uh dominates our understanding of the cosmos and the large interesting and the um so then it goes silent and effectively the smart kids are all following bore because bore uh and the quantum have so many open problems whereas general relativity seems like pretty much a closed book and that's until
1953 and something very bizarre happens in 1953 which we can get to but then there's 20 years of explosion in general relativity um which you know you've had Roger Penrose uh on your program before so he comes from that era and step Hawking was uh interior to that era um Richard Fineman of all people uh was very active and um gave lectures at Caltech so my entry point was that when I was a young guy at the University of Pennsylvania uh when I'd come home to La for break uh I'd go out to Caltech and I would park and findan or Gilman's parking spaces which I just thought was the coolest thing in the world that these people these Gods had little um you know stones with their names stem on it so I would go park in Fineman space and I would go to the Caltech bookstore and I found that there was something that was sold there that at the time I don't think was sold anywhere else which was like the Fineman lectures on gravitation 1962 to 63 and they were effed up they it was like finan says I don't know how Einstein did his thing but imagine that you didn't have the Insight that this was all geometric based on a guy named Bernard remon's uh notion of what differential geometry is the sort of the smooth surface geometry of curvature and feeman says let's just imagine this was an ordinary field Theory am I Richard Fineman smart enough to figure out the geometry just proceeding as if I was a particle theorist and like this is a very strange and interesting wonderful thing to do and these these notes are fantastic my question is what happened between 1953 and 1973 because the reason that that I'm um in part really animated right now is that this month February 1st of 2023 is the exact 50th year anniversary of the stagnation in particle theory as measured by the movement from the standard model so the standard model and general relativity are the two basic theories the theory of the very small the theory of the very large they're incompatible in a certain level but they're very similar looking at a different level so this has been driving people crazy and I say you know in 1973 uh Crocodile Rock was the number one song or the tire yellow ribbon around the old oak tree imagine that
song being at the top of the pops for 50 years with no respit that's how that's how impressive this is right that's a great comparison that's a great right so just imagine the platform shoes and going up doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense how did the world's smartest Community stagnate this badly this has happened once before in recent times between 1928 when dck came up with something called Quantum electrodynamics which is electrons and photons interacting light and a little bit of matter and for almost 20 years until 1947 we couldn't compute with this first Quantum field Theory Quantum electrodynamics otherwise known as QED and suddenly in 1947 we held a conference at Shelter Island in the tip of uh Long Island and they didn't invite the old people as much as they invited the young people coming after the success of the Manhattan Project now the Manhattan Project gets remembered by us as a physics project but it was really engineering because the theorists were unable to fight their way out of a paper bag so we gave them an engineering project and they completely crushed it right they give us these Atomic weapons so we had a pretty good idea of who was smart and people like Fineman were smart so we held this this weird cheap conference at Shelter Island at the Rams Head Inn and Fineman figured out that along with a guy named Julian schwinger and another guy named tomaga in Japan that there was a stupid error like a really boneheaded you know I can't find my keys for 20 years and then you realize oh they're in my pocket um so this thing had to do with the fact that there were two concepts of mass for the electron and if you imagine that this was this table between us was ice right and I pushed this cup that we would know about how much the mass of this cup was um based on how it responded to force but what if I start putting friction now it's wood it appears to be slightly more massive because it takes more Force to drag a cup across wood than it does across ice because of the coefficient of friction that number is the effective mass or the dressed mass and we thought that that was the real mass and we had
those two numbers set equal and when we realized that they weren't the same number suddenly the theory yielded so it was a 20 years state that ended because there was a boneheaded mistake so we have some experience with this is this stagnation uh more confusing to you because everything else has kind of moved along technologically innovation no things mostly haven't moved really yeah we all have this sense of like oh my God the dizzying pace of progress right and then I I always set this this problem this way I say if you subtract the screens in our lives so our phones bit flat screen TVs all that stuff and and you forget about style issues because style changes how do you know you're not in 1973 more or less you know we don't have George Jetson stuff everywhere style would be a big one yeah style would be but just in terms of techn like the distance between 1952 where we have the first thermonuclear device in the test known as Ivy Mike and 1902 before we even have powered flight is like 10,000 years it's enormous right the difference between 1973 and 2023 is mostly due to computers computers and communication are the two really big expanding things now I'm not saying you don't have quadcopters and you don't have right but because we interact with that primarily we think of things as being far more advanced right and like on a broad scale well this is the issue you know the way I used to say it is it was between electrons and atoms the world of atoms stagnated the world of electron R um went crazy it's actually a very good point too in terms of one of the one of the major um industries that has to improve every Year's automobiles right and the problem with that is they're so good like if you get to like a Tesla level of performance the idea that you're going to get faster than that is [ __ ] you don't want to necessarily get F you don't want to get that fast the idea that you could just go to a store and buy a car that will go zero to 60 in two seconds is [ __ ] nuts man I know it's nuts well it's most it's mostly a battery and a computer claiming to be a car keep going exactly what what I was going to say is they're
all riant on computers now like I really like old cars I really like old yeah but it's also I just like that there's a direct connection mechanically you feel a mechanical connection to the gears and the steering there's something about them that's very satisfying I they don't even have to be fast they don't have to move fast like driving around normally it's like driving a ride it's very fun whereas with a Tesla it's just you know that if you turn the wheel it'll turn the it'll turn the the uh actual wheels that are on the road but you don't feel them you don't feel that thing you're just turning a thing and a thing happens you're not directly connected to it it's all computers all the new Compu all the new cars rely on computers if you listen to John Mayer for example talking about what's wrong with modeling amplifiers you know you can get $100,000 worth of equipment in one of these little boxes um but a tube amp is hard to replace because there's something special in analog technology of a different time or you pass current through a pickup and that magnet you know there's magic that happens between wood and magnets and steel right all this kind of stuff I appreciate an a an automatic transmission as a thing of beauty but I'd rather drive a stick still yeah it's still you don't want to drive one in traffic but if it's just you enjoying driving there's nothing like a stick shift it this is where they lose this they lose the focus with computers it's like you're taking away one of the best things about driving which is the enjoyment of driving and you're replacing it with tents of a second that no one's going to notice and you really shouldn't notice anyway because they're all ridiculously fast yeah but this train will not slow down well I get it but people need to understand just from a human perspective Ive you will enjoy driving a manual car more if you have any life left suspension if you any [ __ ] spark left in you when you're on a windy road you want to go even if you're not driving fast I'm not the Rolls-Royce had to put sound back in because they' subtracted so much sound through their patented insulation systems BMW's done that as well yeah it's it's you know it's not safe well now you're like you're going to simulate
it's gross I know they're talking about doing that for Ferraris because they're going to make an EV Ferrari so if they made an electrical Ferrari they're talking about making fake Ferrari noises which is just an atrocious thing to come out of Italy stop it wa just stop it what the [ __ ] is you guys are all passion and and wine and sound like Ferrari is supposed to be like this high revving there's something about that as it's happening that excites you right it's it's music it's dance it's love it's it's real you can't have F you with Ferrari sounds no okay no but Elon cars don't make any sound I love it well I get terrified of it because they sneak up behind me that's that is an issue that is an issue okay but so getting back to the whole UFO thing and the progress we don't realize what percentage of life was determined by physics right so for example why Wi-Fi and all the communication is the electromagnetic spectrum including radio waves we don't realize the semiconductor which created the logic gate you know just we all we did was scale it up and then now it's chat GPT yeah um the number of things that have changed the world whether it's the worldwide web coming out of CERN physics is really what has moved the dial including molecular biology founded by physicists more or less so when you lose this community you don't understand like you think okay that's some Egghead [ __ ] it isn't physics is basically progress physics created the modern economy and to have a 50-year stagnation uh particularly and and I want to draw a really important contrast 1968 was the year we discovered the Quark so in every proton there are three veilance quirks two of them named up one of them named down in a neutron it's two downs and one up so that's how we neutrons and protons are not fundamental when we found the neutron it was in 1932 so my Aunt Judy shout out to Aunt Judy Philadelphia Judy uh is older than the neutron and the neutron doomed us as a species like that one Discovery more or less indicated that if we do not leave this world we will die here in short order because if you throw a proton at a very heavy nucleus it doesn't crash into into the nucleus you got all these protons in the
center they're all positively charged and this one guy is coming in you know at high speed and all these massive protons say you know like charges repel and this thing just runs away like a scaredy cat a neutron is almost a proton it's basically the same kind of a a deal but with no charge so it doesn't understand that you're telling it you know go back danger and it just screams in and it can split these nuclei releasing all of this energy and then you get these chain reactions with the neutrons radiating out so in 1932 we discover the neutron I think it was by 38 this woman named leas miter uh figures out the Chain Reaction by 42 10 years after the discovery of the neutron en Rico fery and something called Chicago pile one cp1 crazily does a controlled Chain Reaction under the bleachers of the University of Chicago shout out to the University of Chicago Stadium which could have obliterated the city of Chicago if it had gone critical right I mean if it had just run away we don't nobody knew what was going to happen yeah so we trusted the city of Chicago to enrio fy's calculation by 45 you get Trinity and the two bombs we drop on Japan and then in 1952 game over you have Ivy Mike and the first thermonuclear weapon based on the teller ulam design which uses the fision bomb just for foreplay as the Detonator that causes the waves to go out radiate out against the shell and I think we still don't talk exactly how we do it and then they bounce off and they compress this rod and core and then you get Fusion rather than fision and suddenly you're harnessing the power of the Sun and that's when you don't even worry about ducking cover because thermonuclear is such a a leap above n above fision devices and that's such a leap above conventional that it takes 20 years for us to be become God right and this power we can't control um we need to worry about physics because you never know when somebody's going to discover a neutron in other words a high leverage object just like the semiconductor was a high leverage object the worldwide web in the early 90s was the high leverage object anything that comes out of physics oh and you know Francis Crick physicist
discovering the threedimensional structure of DNA and then the transfer um hypothesis of uh where you translate DNA into messenger RNA which gets red in ribosomes all of these things changed the world and effectively gave us so much power that we don't know how to control it and we were so scared um for 70 years because it's 6 months between 1952 and 53 where we discover both the atom and the cell and how they work in terms of this forbidden knowledge we were so scared that we behaved ourselves and now we're not scared we're like Slava Ukraine just whatever um yeah we've got Putin we're gon to back him into a corner uh yeah we should probably say that this is actually uh the day that we're talking about this is the day that Putin just backed out of the nuclear treaty publicly which is not good with Joe Biden going to Kiev and pledging his undying love to and I'm going to say this which is very painful I think zalinski is a complete Menace why do you think that he's romantic he's telegenic he's Brave uh we can talk about whether he got set up in a coup or you know who he really is he was an actor etc etc but at some point I think I heard him I had to go back to like the Russian and Ukrainian speaches in order to try to I don't speak much Russian I don't speak any Ukrainian but they're closely related languages and he calls for like pre preven Udi like preventative strikes I'm like huh you know this is while this a while ago and I thought why is this person allowed to address Congress you have somebody who and and I want to be very clear about this um I really find it disgusting what Vladimir Putin did invading Ukraine but if you look historically at The Killing and the borders of Eastern and Central Europe they have gone back and forth like nobody's business when you ask somebody like me an American asan a Jew where did your family come from you always get the same weird response it's like oh it was a part of belarussia that went back in forth between Poland Ukraine mova you know Lithuania because it's fluid right and so when we say you know we we
we respect the territorial Integrity of Ukraine we were fighting right now in Lov like the ukrainians were fighting lvo 8 seconds by Hypersonic missile from Article 5 territory since 1999 in Poland and I realized how crazy we got um I was in Providence Rhode Island with my son and I get this alert on my phone and it says two people are dead in Poland uh W with a presumptive strike by a Russian missile I'm thinking did did I read two Polish people dead in an article five full NATO member since 1999 with a Russian missile because I knew we were fighting way too close to this border now by the way if I say lvo everyone's going to correct me and say no no Eric it's Lviv it's like no these SP these cities all have multiple pronunciations I I always thought of lvo was a Polish City not a Ukrainian City and ironically I believe lvo is the birth place of Stannis La ulam who came up with the teller ulam thermonuclear design so we're talking about some of the world's smartest people on some of the world's bloodiest most disgusting most beautiful land you know have you have you ever been to Ukraine no so my family basically is scattered you know was scattered throughout the Shettles of UK ukine and I've been over there in in ' 89 we Americans do not understand Central and Eastern Europe period the end and for us to be making these commitments and not understanding how Russians think and how ukrainians think and how Poes think and how the fighting works I don't think we know what we're doing I think we're creating a Doomsday Machine and I the reason that we you know it's not like zalinski isn't wronged by Putin it's not like um he's not charismatic he has one of the greatest Bruce Willis lines of all time when we ask to evacuate him he says I need ammunition not a ride you know that thing makes us yeah yeah I want that there's like hous to house fighting the way all the World War II enthusiasts think they they tend not to think about Nagasaki and Hiroshima they like the the Tactical stuff with all the you know which Bridge got got taken out over which river and how did we do this and that so it's very romantic to people who are like World War II addicts we do not realize how deep the
trouble where courting is and I don't think we realize how dangerous it is if we are going to every time there's a border dispute go to a thermonuclear stand you know standoff it's just Russian roulette with smaller and smaller numbers of empty chambers and I don't know what this is I don't know whether we have 30 years to play this game or three or three months but I learned that day last year in 2022 um nobody around me in Providence Rod Island was reacting everybody's just going about was like a normal day it's like I'm I'm increasingly Joe believing that I am sane and that the world is crazy and normally I take that as a cue that maybe I need to get some sleep no I think we're actually just going crazy I think that those of us who actually get how risky this is need to speak up because it's not fun the entire apparatus will tell you that you're soft on Putin and you're an appeasing Chamberlain uh wannabe and it's like [ __ ] right now you don't realize in 2004 we let lvia and Lithuania into M NATO membership and I remember thinking at the time what the hell are we doing it's not like I don't understand that we want to protect them it's not like I don't understand that you want want to say that they're independent nations but these were former Soviet republics and there's two ways of thinking about it you can put on one set of glasses and say well these are nations that get to decide what they want and who's to tell them what to do and then there's another thing called spheres of influence where it's like that's the Russian sphere of influence if you are not playing with both of these sets of lenses you're not playing the game and the number of people who just have one set of these glasses on right they're only seeing the infrared or they're only seeing the ultraviolet it's like no you you need to oscillate back and forth and understand what you're doing so I think I think zalinski and I'm scared to say this because I know I'm going to get just nothing but hate we created a situation by pretending that we didn't understand the Spheres of in influence glasses we very well understand the sovereignty classes and we are now creating a Doomsday
Machine that we do not understand and the world is going to go multi-polar and we don't have the skill to play this game period do you think part of the problem is that we're the the amount of people that have actually gone to war in this country first of all there's there's people that are in the army or in all the Armed Forces they're they're volunteers everyone volunteers there's no draft there's no um National requirement to join the military like there is in Israel and like there is in South Korea and many other countries we the the people that have experience with the war are the ones that are telling you this is dangerous people like yourself are telling us this is dangerous but to the rest of the world to the rest of this country there's a real problem with day-to-day existence because day-to-day existence is tricky and it it gives you parameters which you exist in but they're not real they're not real they're not real you they're only real right now and if you invite War you now are like these videos that you can watch I don't know if you're on telegram there's some [ __ ] videos from this war on like in the woods ground fighting I've seen them heavy heavy [ __ ] and I don't think people that show up every day at the same Starbucks and then get on the highway and go to their office and repeat every [ __ ] day I don't think they think of that as a real option in the world but it is think of daily life as ketaman okay so you've got people walking around completely dissociated because everything in their daily environment tells them to pick up the dry cleaning right and you know oh everything's fine well what's on Netflix yeah um at least in the Cuban Missile Crisis my father was driving across country I said you knew it was the he says everybody knew it was the Cuban Missile Crisis every single town that he drove through he would stop and the TV would be on people were talking about it right we are in some world where and I think that we have to just talk about the fact that the United States is attacking ordinary intelligent human beings by depriving them of any basic knowledge
of what is actually going on we don't know what happened with the origin of covid we have no idea about Epstein we don't know what's going on with the vaccines we don't understand the source of the inflation we blinded ourselves from looking at the M1 monetary aggregate when the FED pumped Us full of cheap cash we have no clue how to resolve um you know something as dumb as the EP to whom did did gillain traffic I don't know yeah well can't find it sorry bye so this is what's causing in part our friends to go crazy you know several years ago Sam Harris had good input Jordan Harrison uh Jordan Peterson had good input Brett Weinstein had good input most of them I don't think have figured out that they're starved for information and that and I'm going to say something very heter heterodox to the heterodoxy the heterodoxy was never meant to take over for the Orthodoxy the Orthodoxy was something that needed correction the purpose of the heterodoxy is to say you're you're 12 degrees off you're 3 degrees off what do you do when you're like 168 degrees off and all you know like the fine-tuning that heterodoxy can do is not sufficient to correct the ship and what we're being what's happening to us I said this to Sam at a dinner with Dave Rubin right before Trump took over over I said Sam if you don't take a different approach to Trump he's going to blow out your circuits he said what do you mean I said well for every ambiguous thing that you can't resolve with Trump um raise two to that power so if he puts three ambiguities uh in a series you have two to the third possibilities of what could be true that's eight he can create a decision tree that explodes faster than you Sam Harris can think right there's no way you can get to two to the fourth possibilities on a decision tree Sam I don't think he understood the perspective and so what happened was we were all swimming in this world where nobody could tell which end was up nobody can resolve anything and I think a lot of this has to do not sure I understand what you were just saying there okay the this decision tree thing that that Sam he was going to blow explain that so let's imagine for example that I'm staying at a local hotel okay and you don't know whether
I'm staying at the high or the Four Seasons okay and you also can't figure out whether I'm leaving at one o'clock or at 2:00 and you don't know whether I'm going to be arriving by um a white Prius or a black Escalade you now have too many possibilities as to well what's the the drive time for those two hotels is different I don't know which car I'm looking for there are eight possibilities now of what could actually be happening because those are all independent right when Trump created ambiguities or now the Biden group is creating ambiguities by not telling us what's actually going on you don't know how serious this uh East Palestine uh Ohio spill is is this something that's going to burn off pretty easily or is this getting into the corn crop that's going to be found in all processed food I don't know I don't know how very good question right okay so just every day you're being assaulted by completely unne Neary ambiguities and and you know this is but why why then the Trump thing why his why would his derangement towards Trump well because circuits Sam made one terrible call with Trump he said that he was the uh evil Chanty Gardener like a simpleton like Mr meoo just happens to wander into the Oval Office as the first first president with zero government experience including the armed services [ __ ] Trump maybe a savant but he was brilliant absolutely brilliant if you do not give that devil it's do your toast yeah it's silly to say that he's dumb because he's different he says some dumb stuff sometimes but often times he's talking off the top of his head oh I don't like uh maybe use some bleach clean it out remember that exactly use some but meanwhile one of the things that he said about using uh light right actually they came up up with a process of doing that that was an actual procedure that they would use where they use ultraviolet light inside a person's lungs and kill the co virus this was like a a concept that they were actually putting forth as being possible so what he said even though it sounded ridiculous get light into the body actually it actually was right but that's the thing so then a
bunch of people said okay I'm going to put a minus sign in front of trump everything that he says is just wrong right do that well they do this to Alex Jones they do this to James ke and they'll do it to you and me they they've definitely done it to me they definitely done it to you too it's a thing that people do look just because someone look I say dumb things all the time constantly my kids make fun of me I never do I am always saying dumb things because I talk sometimes before I totally think but then I go oh wait a minute that doesn't make sense and then I'll correct it like I'm I'm trying not to be married to my thoughts there's a real problem you're great at this by the way the real problem well because I'm I recognize my [ __ ] shortcomings me too I I know that I I am I'm scattered okay because I do a lot of different things and I'm thinking about things that are totally unnecessary like professional pool matches like I think about that all the time like how did he get position on that six ball that's crazy and I I'll think about that when I'm driving my car so like I'm a scatterbrain in a lot of ways so sometimes when I'm talking I'm I'm there but I'm not like fully formed in these thoughts I'm trying to talk them out in real time right and you you get clumsy with that and when you concentrate on something thing you get really good at it and if you concentrate on something and try to improve on something whether it's playing chess or whether it is business you get really good at it and in the meanwhile you might not be good at interpersonal relationships you might not be good at the way you communicate with people you might not be good at but you have some weird thing that you're doing that seems to be successful and you're you're putting all your energy into that that's what he's doing that's what he's always done what he's always done is like these business deals and making money and putting a [ __ ] giant hotel with his name on it whoo like that's what he thinks about and he's really good [ __ ] I would say he's tactical the extreme you can't say he's not smart it's just like he's he's just not Sam Harris he's not capable of those kind of eloquent speeches and conversations off off the cuff like that which is a totally different skill yeah but if you looked
at his tweets for example back in the day there was so much formula in those tweets I I started coming up with like a template he had five different twe and Sam just would not let go of the idea that he's a dum dum and that was super expensive in the long run but I think it's because Sam knows that if you get in a debate with that guy he could trounce him part of it is that you think you think yes Sam could TR him if if they got in debate about religion if they got in debate about about certain things that Sam is like Neuroscience certain things that Sam is very educated in he's he he's so good at debates it's like being a black Pelt that's used to tapping people all the time and then you see this guy that's he's winning debates against people because he's calling him like what do he called lion Ted and he calls the gives people nicknames and and I think if I was Sam and I was as good as debate at debate as Sam is I would go I can [ __ ] this guy up Sam doesn't know what's coming to him if that's true because there was a guy named Max bleacher was I'm sorry Sam dragging into this who was a who was a Los Angeles attorney who had a crazy idea he said I'm going to try really complex antitrust cases in front of juries like's not going to be able to follow that he's like exactly I'm going to speak simply look one way to win one of these arguments is just say uh you know the problem is the nuclear family right and every single Democrat will say you mean nuclear and then you've lost because when you correct somebody who's saying nuclear like okay it's clear eggh head you lose nuclear is a way to say it too it is now so this that's how that's how George W bush always said it and everybody's like hey what the fck Dennis Miller had a bit about it but it wins right so this is why if you sit down with one of these like like if you and I are at the beach right and we've got the world's greatest beach volleyball team on one side and the world's greatest CPAC tucko team on the other side it's it's a ball it's a net and it's three three three dudes okay okay who wins the people that are better nope who depends who the ref is if the ref thinks it's volleyball then the volleyball team will win and if if the ref thinks it's
CPAC tucko the CPAC tucko team it's the same I don't know what CPAC tucko is oh it's like the most beautiful you know what that is yeah yeah what is it it's similar to the thing with that ball that we have out there that uh oh one of oh okay that's it's like martial arts ballet in the air with the feet it's the it's it's the best game ever I don't know why we're not do amazing well we can't do it those guys are [ __ ] I destroyed my left ankle on this game oh you can't be doing that you can't do no no I was a young man I was courting my wife I was going to impress her in Indonesia show like let an American take over okay here we go these guys are these guys are phenomenal okay like that is insane I mean that's like a 100 Yer Rodriguez is out there Yer Rodriguez is a UFC fighter who fights like I almost did it with boxing versus UFC right is the issue punching people in the face or is the issue doing everything except for small joints and and and eye sockets that kind of thing though requires like a kind of dexterity that's very difficult to acquire like that kind of dexterity with your legs that's like a Taekwondo dexterity 100% the question is what are the rules so in other words if if Sam Harris goes up against Donald Trump I can tell you who's going to win depending upon how we score okay what if what if they have a convers instead of like having this this here's what I don't like about debates yeah this what's artificial is that one person gets to talk for x amount of time it seems silly to me I don't mind someone being able to talk but it has to be a conversation someone cannot dominate the conversation like you and I if you and I had a disagreement and I just wouldn't let you talk it's very frustrating it sucks it's not good for anybody more likely to go the other way I'm sorry it could happen that way it could happen that way but it doesn't matter it's like it's not fun and it's not it's not fair and like if you're gonna have it's like a fight you can't I can poke you in the eye but you can't poke me in the eye no that's not fair it has to be fair so if you're going to have a an and some would say well he's not capable of having a good faith conversation but that's the only way to do it the only way to do it is to have an open-ended time frame where you could just until this [ __ ]
thing is resolved until we all give up you guys can talk was Dick Fosbury Fair who's Dick fosber the high jump guy from 68 in Mexico City I don't know what happened oh he figured out he you had to go backwards Over the Bar rather than scissoring it oh he's the first guy to figure that out yeah oh no kidding right that's a pretty [ __ ] bold move right bold move or like you enter a catamaran in the America's Cup they have the same big pad yeah so they had the same big pad before and they were just landing on it like that oh wow that's crazy right whoa that's insane that's how they used to do it yeah wow right so zero day exploit did you know this did you know I feel like I knew this jump I've heard of that but I didn't I didn't know how they did it before I never looked [ __ ] at the same Olympics you have Bob Bean jumping like what is it two feet farther than any humans like probably the greatest single athletic performance of the 20th century happens there but zero day exploits are really interesting another one was the Bombay International table tennis championship and the weakest player on the Japanese team was a guy I'm gonna get the name wrong here Jamie keep me honest hero hiroi Sato uh he shows up in Bombay and he's like the worst player and he he's got the secret uh paddle case and he unzips it and he's got rubber glued to both sides of the Sandpaper bat that everybody else is using oh and he dominates everybody and you think because the rubber grips and spins but I think it's actually that the everyone was queued to the sound and this deadened the sound and suddenly nobody could play against him sudden you know so he's like Iron Man right they're thinking they have another thing that they're thinking about now like why does it sound like that they don't even know that ah right interesting okay hero sat's controversial sponge bat that caused a revolution in table tennis but also wouldn't it slow the ball down because of the softness of it I would imagine it would give you more control it would seems like it would do both of those things maybe it would slow the ball down a little bit because it's got a little bit of smush to it and I think that would almost be like a change up in um like a pitching situation where someone's throwing a ball you're
expecting it to be 90 miles hour instead it's 60 and you're like [ __ ] like you're just you're you're off right because you have to be so ready to go and and it's slower than it should be so it's [ __ ] with your computer and I think I think the Chinese came up with the loop in table tennis I believe that in beach volleyball the jumping serve where you you go airborne and then you you hit these these discreet technical changes oh let's take the one with Steph Curry uh I heard I wish I could remember who this was somebody in your audience will know there was an old style top basketball players being interviewed what do you think of this guy Steph Curry what's happening in the game and he said something was so beautiful I can't tell you something to the effect of you know I don't know what game that is he said I used to play in the paint we were all you know we're going at it and elbowing and trying to get position this guy's a million miles away from the basket and he's just nothing but net he said that's not basketball to me like he just didn't recognize what the thing had become oh that's so weird and so I think the these zero day exploits and just taking back to get to the to the UFOs because we have crazy stuff the neutron is a zero day exploit it's The Fosbury Flop of physics same for the semiconductor and we have stagnated for so long that people in our government aren't watching people like me and saying what's going on Eric anything new what are you working on because anybody who comes up with a new thing can change the entire balance of power on planet Earth how far away are we from new things and have new things been can't ask me that cuz I I have a different view than every other person I want to get back to I want to ask you let's do that at the tell me can ask you not I'm asking you that bro okay KCK youread keep going we'll get back to me asking you that yeah you can ask me at the end but but I want to do the stuff that's controversial but is like everybody should have to agree to it okay okay let's go so what I wanted to know was why during the 1950s did something happen that resulted in a 70-year stagnation in a field called quantum gravity quantum gravity is like
a startup that cannot ship a product after 70 years and it's still taken over in theoretical physics as sort of The Prestige Theory field and quantum gravity is is there an application for this that there were attempting to achieve no it's not a it's not a precursor to technology so far as we know but what happened was you probably have some dim memory of something by the way these uh shooting stars in your ceiling just yeah you gota be warned otherwise you're like oh oh um quantum gravity uh is the replacement of something uh for is a replacement for something that used to be known as the unified field so Einstein wasn't chasing quantum gravity he was chasing unified field Theory and unified field theory was much closer to what we would call classical physics where you get Quantum field Theory by quantizing a classical Theory that fell out of favor and around 1984 we gradually had unified field Theory become sort of like a joke old-timey expression for the future of physics and we substituted quantum gravity for the merger of quantum theory Quantum field Theory quantum mechanics and gravitational physics under general relativity that program that dog doesn't hunt and it hasn't hunted for 70 years so I wanted to trace this back how is it that the field became convinced that something which clearly doesn't seem to work and has had all of the resources all of the best Minds at its disposal it sucks up everything and it it just doesn't work why can't I question this where did this come from so to be specific like how many people are working on this problem and how many people have been working on this problem for 70 years without progress I would say that the period between 1953 and 73 there are parallel things quantum gravity is not the mainstream at all okay so real physics is happening between 53 and 73 by anybody's understanding of it okay okay between 1973 and 1984 or 19 let's say 74 to 84 because we group 73 with the to 53 you have 10 years of super exciting guesses about the extension of our understanding than called super symmetry Grand unified
theory Technicolor uh ASM totic safety these are really responsible guesses Axion um and you know somebody like Sean Carroll uh or Neil degrass Tyson might talk to you about these things when they come in here in 1984 there's an earthquake called the anomaly cancellation and a a failed theory of strong physics the physics needed to glue two protons together in a helium nucleus because they both hate each other because of electromagnetism and want to separate but something is binding them together like a family structure right that Force we initially tried to fix by thinking of it as strings we'll put like elastic bands between things and it'll pull things back together that didn't work but then we repurposed it and said no no no it's quantum gravity and uh one single individual who is the most dominant mind on planet Earth at the moment moment uh effectively Voldemort the person whose name we are a little bit afraid to invoke and and cause wrath said in 1984 no string theory is the way this anomaly cancellation was unexpected and it clearly points to the fact that we are ladies and gentlemen we're about to quantize who's that person Edward Whitten and in physics circles you're not allowed to bring this guy up we talk about him everybody talks about him but to challenge him think about agent Smith think about playing one-on-one with Michael Jordan in his prime he's that good Joe I don't think I I'm dumb enough not to be intellectually afraid of anyone else on planet Earth at this point I am terrified of this person really i' I I've said he's the Michael Jordan of theoretical physics if only Michael Jordan could play better basketball I'm not kidding around Joe okay yeah wow right this good and has never made contact with the physical world so it's like one of the greatest conundrums so so let me get back to how C what do you mean by never made contact no Nobel Prize never predicted something that turned out to be true never pointed us to do an experiment that was invalidated so 100% of his efforts have been not making contact with physical reality oh this is I'm sorry like you
have people like mokaku who are in the string theoretic school or Sean Carroll is very sympathetic to it you need to understand this story uh Jamie if I dare may I ask can we pull up something with Edward Whitten and Abdu Salam uh on YouTube just to like this person's voice imagine a six foot for person who talks like this interesting just like you could do a Vulcan mind meld and rearrange your mind into scrambled eggs within seconds I know tenur professors who hid in their offices when he visited MIT because he walked on everybody he knocked on everyone's door and he has you know how Warren batty had a pickup line that everyone knew what's new pussycat is that what he said yeah that was Warren Batty's pickup line it's all you needed when you were Warren batty it's true try that [ __ ] if you work at 7-Eleven this person okay let me here pretty weird way for a theory to start the string of theory started with a clever formula written down by veneziano in an effort to satisfy not so well motivated phenomenological ideas about strong interaction scattering that was a way for Theory to start which was a strange just the way quantum mechanics started and the way Einstein happened to have uh invented a theory in a particularly striking Triumph of reason and intuition but but most other physical theories have had more complicated you can tell how much is going on Beyond this how to make theories about them you can't generalize at all of how invention will come anybody who makes statements like that is by his own experience now that is ABD Salam Noel Prize winner must be modified according to each situation what would you say Well it still seems to me it's a question of whether you start with a mathematical scheme and then look for a physical interpretation or start with a physical principle which you guess to be correct and then on the one hand try and prove it experimentally to be true and on the other hand uh codify it into a mathematical form I must admit I've always been so admiring Einstein's procedure in general relativity of starting with a very simple physical remark based on the Galileo discovery that bodies of different Mass fall at the same rate in the gravitational field of the earth he made a simple physical hypothesis why that should be true
you you have to understand you know that old Jim cochi song about Big Jim yes when the bad folks all get together at night they all call Big Jim boss if you ask any of us who are any good who's the person who terrifies you the most so are these guys debating him is this what's going on no no no no no no no are they agreeing with him are they questioning they're having a friendly conversation right should we let it go more uh up to you but I would I would concentrate the other people are very interesting this is a towering 1 stories above everybody else let me hear him talk more because it seemed very fascinating watching the way he was talking about things it almost seems like he wanted to run away and get back to his lab with you except that I think it would have taken you see reman almost did it remon had the conception that gravity was based on curved SpaceTime but what he lacked sorry Ron had the conception gravity was based on curved space he didn't conceive of curved space time because special relativity hadn't happened yet so time and space hadn't been unified but if Ron had lived after special relativity he might well made even so I don't think it's a such a cut and dried case ever well could I let me give you one more example if I may please um find find some more so should we walk at a different video of him or this you can find a Le of him that where he's alone just let him Yap a little bit okay outside the a winner of the fundamental physics prize a $3 million prize recently established by Yuri Milner to matter equivalent of the electron the positron this is a particle like the electron but with the opposite electric charge so this was actually the discovery of antimatter the most basic property of antimatter is that matter antimatter pairs can be created and annihilated in this picture time is running horizontally and what I'm sketching the purple Wiggly lines are meant to be photons physicists often in drawing so-called fan diagrams use Wiggly lines to indicate photons here two photons are annihilating into
an electron positron pair so photons are as close to pure energy as it gets and they can be converted to matter that is into antimatter matter pairs imagine dating This Guy's daughter and you have to meet him you know Hey sir nice to meet you what do you what do you do at work I've Tangled with him twice I don't look two friends of mine are his graduate students he's had two graduate students in mathematics he's not even a mathematician he's won the fields medal he's never won the Nobel Prize but he's won the highest prize in all of mathematics as a sideline didn't even make major in physics major in history at brandise they're fried their brains everybody who comes in contact with this person just never fully recovers because he's that much smarter we don't know what process he's running I mean imagine that you had like a machine tool imagine you had like chat GPT in your ear nobody else did and nobody knows how you're doing it right um I wouldn't say that he's that way now the younger vers version of him was much more unusual he would just spontaneously laugh in the middle of a sentence for no reason um it it was just very clear that you weren't communicating with somebody who was with you in the room whoa yeah he seemed like the way he was sitting there grasping his hands and he seemed like very uncomfortable just to be around all these people I was at the University of Pennsylvania in like 1982 through 85 okay and I went to a lecture that he gave and he said things like well gu every school child in Quantum field theorist knows yeah just like spontaneously laughing for no reason U the number of generations is tied to the index of an elliptic operator on a cabia manifold and the guy next to me says I've been a Quantum fil theorist for 40 years I don't know any of this stuff whoa right so he came on to the scene and started telling us how everything was going to fit together and nobody had ever heard a story like this this is by the way lost um to history because we fictionalized what happened with string theory this person was so far ahead that nobody wanted to contradict
him he said this was the way you know there are five string theories or whatever there are six four I can't remember and it's going to be one of them and in 10 years we'll have the whole thing wrapped up and everybody wanted to be on the winning team knew that they weren't going to go up against this because they couldn't even figure out how he was doing what he was doing and what was really going on was very different than people understood Quantum field Theory which is now claimed by most physicists to be the most advanced Theory we have at the time was sort of a grab bag of different techniques you know just like not unified he saw that this was effectively um a coherent hole and with help from a couple of other people who are often not as well acknowledged one of which would be Michael AA uh another which would be Graham seagull another which would be Dan quillin and my good friend and post ooral adviser Isador singer so there was sort of a small cabal of people who figured out that Quantum field theory was not only a coherent story it didn't really have to do with physics at all it was like calculus you can use calculus to do physics in fact you can't do physics without it but you can also use calculus to optimize inventory and make you know make your profits go up and so as a result Quantum field theory was discovered not to be physical it was a framework that you one physical input to that machine probably generates the world but the machine itself isn't about physics so this was the most romantic backfiring in the history of physics in in a certain sense these guys set out to say we are going to quantize gravity in other words quantize geometry the geometry of Einstein and remont and what happened was exactly the reverse they graviti the quantum they geometrized the quantum so it's been remarkably productive the reason we can say how brilliant this person is is because he geometrized the quantum at a level that we didn't know was possible on the other hand he never made contact with physical reality the way he was expecting and promis ing to do so he's both the most accomplished of us and the person who drove physics the most off of
the road and if you attempt to give him his due and you don't if you're not comfortable citing both of these things you can't be an accurate historian but he's still running around and nobody wants to go up against him how old is he now uh he's born in 1951 so he'll be turning 72 I think later this year if I'm not mistaken and then we get to the real crazy part quantum gravity is really due to two families one is a husband and wife team and the other is father son the husband and wife team were named Bryce dwit formerly I think Bryce Seligman don't know why he changed his name and his wife Cecil dit or Cecil dit Moret and the father-son team was Lewis Whitten who is still alive now 101 years old and Edward Whitten and then the really weird stuff happens um and this is why I was like curious about UFOs and gravity and all this stuff the actual Genesis of these two families having this outsized impact on the future of theoretical physics comes from two different people who are almost never talked about matter of fact most physicists have no idea their names one is named agnu banson and the other is named Roger Babson and these two guys were deep into anti-gravity so the world's greatest mind and greatest living theoretical physics mind is the son of the most prominent anti-gravity researcher I swear I kid you not from the 1950s whoa whoo now there's an official story about this and the official story that both the DTs tell and the wittens tell is oh yeah there were these crazy people they were very embarrassing they were always focused on anti-gravity but we were clever enough to defraud them of their money to do real gravitational research ha haa they both said that both families well they didn't use defraud but that's kind of what they impli that's correct because it's an embarrassment and and in order to understand this hugely productive period relative to the stagnation the stagnation is incredibly High Prestige like most of the positions at the at the institute for advanced study
the top physics department ostensibly in the world right you had a director named Ro Robert dyra String theorist you had Edward Whitten string theorist Natty cyberg string theorist uh Juan malesa string theorist and you had this guy Nima arani Hamed who I hope you will have on this program who is amazing who is not a string theorist but very string sympathetic this thing dominated it just took over and this weird Genesis of a high Prestige field that can't accomplish what it's setting out to accomplish is in contrast to this mixed period between 1953 and 1973 where you have the world's most prestigious physicists poing around with pseudoscience UFO type stuff gravity shielding all this stuff so Babson is so crazy I you can't even believe this story is true um but he claims that his sister drowned in a pond because even though she was a good swimmer she couldn't overcome gravity so gravity becomes his sworn enemy and he's going to use his fortune that he's predicted from uh that he's gotten from predicting the crash of 1929 because of Newton's Laws what goes up must come down so he gets out of the stock market six months early Babson makes a a fortune he Edison and Clarence birdeye of frozen food you know uh Fame form this sort of little intellectual Collective where they're going to defeat gravity so for example just because people are going to say Eric this is all nonsense and it isn't Jamie is it possible to pull up a stone monument at tus University to the anti-gravity that was done there so put in tus Stone anti-gravity these this guy littered universities all across the country with these monuments to prove that this anti-gravity stuff was actually taking place uh at American universities and he established an essay contest all right so check this out this Monument has been directed by the Gravity Research Foundation Roger Babson founder to remind students of the blessing of forthcoming when science determines what gravity is and how it works and how it may be controlled this is about UFOs and the idea that we are going to harness the power of gravity and we are going to get a supreme advantage and
these stones are uh littered around the country here's another one so this is not widely known that this research is being done this is hugely embarrassing to us hugely embarrassing because it hasn't yielded results no hugely embarrassing because it carries the stench of pseudo science see when people don't like me coming on your program and saying things that nobody else in the world is saying they call me a pseudo scientist store that's crackpot and these words like you don't take them that seriously we we had this discussion before with like Tim Dylan saying something about me uh you know what has he ever done academics play these games with each other where we try to push each other out of the ring like sumo wrestlers and the way you push somebody out is you say oh that guy's a crack B he's a grifter he's a pseudo scientist right he's nutty he's a Nutter [ __ ] this was the marriage of the ultimate nuttiness with the highest Prestige physics we know how to do and was this considered nuttiness in ' 64 though this is the interesting question in the middle of the 1950s this is mainstream in newspapers but for example Bryce DT so here's how the two stories cross okay you start off with Babson and banson okay they're they're the money Babson found something called the Gravity Research Foundation in New Boston New Hampshire and he gets the Glenn El Martin company which is the precursor of Martin Marietta precursor of lock heat Martin do you know this stuff no okay and he gets them to hire Lewis Whitten out of John's Hopkins Lewis Whitten is a respectable physicist who takes the position and forms something called the research institute for advanced study now you've probably heard of bell Labs or Xerox Park and you probably haven't heard of the research Institute for advanced study no yet this has illustrious names associated with it uh Solomon lefet the great topologist uh comes out of retirement to work on this anti-gravity uh inspired project um rud Rudolph Colman of Colman filtering there's no shortage Sheldon glashow who discovers spontaneous symmetry breaking under Julian schwinger at Harvard is attached to the Research Institute of
advanced study it has a a campus in Baltimore Maryland that uh you know I can tell you the address at some point we pretend that it didn't happen and doesn't exist but for example if you were to look at Brown University Brown University has something called the center for nonlinear Dynamics and the center for nonlinear Dynamics is the spin out from the Research Institute of advanced study of Solomon Lett the great topologist's work on nonlinear you know like chaos theoretic uh dynamical systems so it's this marriage of utter Madness and cookiness with top door drawer white shoe respectability so this was my puzzle about UFOs what was this anti-gravity thing between 53 and 73 and the reason it ends in 1973 is a guy named Mike Mansfield uh I think of Montana as a senator passes something called the the Mansfield Amendment which discontinues army or Department of Defense military funding for Blue Sky research inside of our universities and what is Blue Sky research hey you're a young person you're super smart here's a pile of money don't even tell us uh what you're working on we just believe in you go to it this is what caused us to be the Envy of the effing World Cowboy science we were wild okay we had skirt chasing hard drinking uh charismatic brilliant human beings who answered to no one and walked around with swagger with their shoulders back and their chests pu puffed out because around Sputnik we wanted the best of the best to go into science around 1973 we discontinue this we start talking about Golden Fleece Awards how did you waste the taxpayers money you know and we become incapable of equaling the performances like we we we worship Williams because nobody's turned in a Ted Williams style performance in ages even Ed Whitten can't do it in any era before this Ed wh would won a Nobel Prize the guy six months older than he is from 1951 his guy Nam Frank wilchek who won the Nobel Prize even being a tiny bit young uh older than Ed Whitten uh you know Frank is brilliant but he's not Ed Wht like he got a Nobel Prize for uh something called Asm IC freedom in um
in strong interactions this new found impedence let's just call it impedence it's like you turned the world's most vital people into castrate and you did it by accounting for their dollars making them uh you know say how everything they did had a practical application defending the purpose of Blue Sky research uh as if they were wasting taxpayer dollars they got C called the you know wealth Fair queens and white lab codes the whole thing is completely ridiculous but we have been in the process of dismantling the world's most productive powerful scientific Enterprise from really 1965 or 73 till the present day and the 65 date dates from gillain Maxwell's Father Robert Maxwell is basically the son of a [ __ ] who introduced peerreview which had only really been strong in the biomedical literature inter General Science because he figured out how to make a fortune hacking the universities if you're a university if you want to have a complete Library you have to buy all the journals the papers appear in so he said great news I'll jack up the prices and jack up the number of journals I'll just explode the number of journals and every University that doesn't want to be in complete has to buy my product so suddenly there weren't enough good editors to edit all of these tiny micro journals you know Journal of hypers specific thing X so peerreview comes screaming in in 1965 uh through his company Maxwell's company called uh pergamon press um so gain's Maxwell's father is like the first major attack on science and then the Mansfield Amendment comes in there's something called the eberg amendment 1973 in 1980 there's something called the B Dole Amendment then there's the ation Act of 1990 and we're just chipping away at the Vitality of American Cowboy science so right now if you go into a science department the whole question is well what have you done for diversity inclusion and Equity you know let's agree that there's no lone Geniuses in the world as if we didn't have Einstein and vun noyman and Teller and all these people everything is communal everything is in the air it's like nobody wants to work in this environment nobody
good right so whatever it is we have been devitalized in certainly since 1973 for 50 years but also really since 1965 how do you turn that boat around though we're doing whatever we can like if you're rich and you're smart and you're connected if you're part of some secret program and you're watching this please reach out to The Joe Rogan Experience or Eric Weinstein to turn the ship around but let's keep going because I want to get to the UFOs again okay um so my question was what is going on with anti-gravity UFOs the world's smartest human beings between 1953 and 73 somebody helped me out why two families the dits and the wittens and let me give you the reason that I didn't want to touch this subject the reason I didn't want to touch the subject has to do with something I learned from World War II so you probably know you know the code name for D-Day no Operation Overlord there was a companion thing called operation bodyguard and in particular Operation Fortitude which was inside of operation bodyguard which was the uh planned invasion of Norway which was never going to happen but we faked an entire invasion of Norway because we had a troop buildup in England that was going to be headed into a very narrow place and was going to be outgunned by the Germans so how do you get all of these people have to fight who have loose lips probably going off and seeing prostitutes who knows not to blow spill the beans on D-Day well you can create an entirely fake invasion of Norway is it possible to bring up Operation Fortitude just to see a map of this thing so they faked radio chatter they had inflatable tanks I think there were Army divisions that didn't exist I was looking at something it didn't call it what you called it but it's the same stuff yeah uh I think this is the map you're talking about well that's that's in that's northern France fortitude would be targeted on I've seen the inflated tanks that was what it was regards to so deception and and we talked about Kay before like I'm very focused on it um what I really care about look at that that's hilarious they had a bunch of inflatable tanks so this
entire deception um had to be parallel o Overlord wouldn't have worked without fortitude now if you assume that that's the basic Paradigm which is whenever we're going to do something badass we're also going to do something fake I thought the UFOs was the Operation Fortitude part of something real this is my bad I screwed up Eric failed blah blah blah um so you thought like at at what point like when the New York Times had revealed they talk to people in Pentagon before that I thought okay you want to develop the SR71 Blackbird you want to develop the the stealth bomber you want a code you want a cover program so you're going to come up with like UFOs somebody sees something in the air dude there was like a flying triangle I swear to God there was this thing that went so fast I couldn't even believe it well one of them is the be B2 bomber the other one is the SR71 Blackbird duh right so why do I want to get involved with Operation Fortitude I'm I'm a patriotic American if we're going to lie about stuff and we're doing it for a good Purp purpose it's not hurting anybody I don't want to get involved and say I'm so smart I can figure it out I don't want be anywhere near that right so that's what I assumed about UFOs and I goofed so what do you think it is now well that's the new question and what made you shift this perspective so there was this weird thing that happened where we announced through the New York Times that this stuff may be more real than anyone cared to imagine you know when Jeremy Corbell was releasing these videos and who was them I don't know and the New York Times was authenticating and you know you get all of this again tons of ambiguity so everybody's decision tree blows out nobody can think straight but I thought oh no what if the old Fineman stories that I've been following are actually about something rather than about a deception so for example Fineman has a story where he says hey there was this guy who was giving physics lectures to Aerospace engineers and they didn't like him so I had to go out to Buffalo I thought Buffalo that's Curtis Wright you're
going to Curtis Wright Aerospace and he's got another one about you know uh give me a dollar because somebody calls him up and says give us the nuclear patents um to like uh fion driven planes and crazy stuff um Fineman is constantly telling us he's got a story called it Greek to me where he shows up in North Carolina can't remember whether he's supposed to go to the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill or Greenville and he has to figure it out and he says oh uh I'm late to the conference there would be a bunch of people mumbling the words G youu and the guy says oh it's Chapel Hill so he goes there so haha it's a cute story about how clever Fineman is which they all are but that was a conference sponsored by The Institute for field physics at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill sponsored by banson through Bryce dwit who is the person who repurposed the Gravity Research Foundation essay uh which is only supposed to be about harnessing gravity anti-gravity anti-gravity devices like UFOs and he said well if you really want to get to anti-gravity you have to do it through quantum gravity right now he did that and then a couple of people from The Institute it was arit and deser uh entered and won this competition that had the stench about it because it was like stigma ized you're going to enter a competition for anti-gravity devices Oppenheimer says wow you guys won this by using the name of the institute for advanced study you give the money back right now we're not going to touch pseudo science the guys kept the money and then the flood gates open and Penrose entered it and Wich entered it everybody in their mother Martin Pearl entered this competition lots of Nobel laurates win it this is this marriage of total [ __ ] and top drawer physics that the rest of us are not allowed to participate so if you want a weird model for how physics Works think about diplomatic immunity but in science you've got this group of people at the top who are allowed to engage in quackery they can hang out at esselin and smoke dope and take LSD and go into uh sensory deprivation tanks like like Fineman um they can po around with rich
people who are uh talking about anti-gravity but the rest of us have to stay in our lane well that ends now now that I've been contacted by people saying Eric you know Sam Harris and I were both contacted saying that there's a disclosure planned and it's got there's big updates and we need you to communicate this news to the world there's disclosure about a specific technology about something I mean more or less the way this works doesn't matter who you talk to it's like something is huge I can't talk to you about it because you don't have clearance but we're going to fly out to Colorado Springs and we're going to show you some stuff and you're never going to be the same right like okay I'm on Standby my process Joe is that I'm very open-minded but I have a very strong filter before I'll say yeah that's true that's real okay that freaks people out like why are you even talking to these people well because I know the history and you don't so I was open to this Sam was open to this and it's Lucy in the football every goddamn week when when am I headed out to Colorado oh you're going to be met by a car and you're going to be blindfolded and you won't know where you are like blah blah blah okay this week next week the week after oh no no something's come up on the hill things getting crazy we're going to be talking to some very big people I can't talk to you right yet so that's been my weird life now a part of it for like three years I don't know how long years they've been telling you that they're going to release this yeah and and it's always pushed out right so like it's it's a Manana program okay it's always Manana and I'm not falling for it but I'm telling you now that I I have information I can't tell you everything I know I wish I could but I I'm a team player and if somebody says something in confidence I'm not going to reveal it on The Joe Rogan Experience okay um but there's some things I can say that nobody else can say which is I had a very weird reaction to this I think Sam was initially interested and then they they maned him three times and he said I'm out doesn't talk about
it I went a different route I said okay you guys keep saying all the stuff is real you keep saying you've got high quality data that you can't show anybody because it's all stove pipe you hear this word over and over stove pipe meaning that each little group is isolated like Bob Lazar says yeah I I was only allowed to see this little thing so I say okay am I right that you're telling me that these things are real yeah then then they say and that nobody could do this that we know of I said that's right because they seem to defy the laws of physics you hear this phrase over and again defy the laws of physics I said great I need to talk to somebody who speaks physics how do you know they defy physical law well we can see that they it's like okay if they defy physical law then there should be a physicist to tell me that they defy physical law who's seen the data maybe he can't release it to me or she but tell me somebody who speaks tensor analysis tell me somebody who knows what the durac equation is like a pretty low Bar for a physicist there is no one and I don't quite mean no one but do you know who Eric W Davis is no you ever heard of the Wilson memo no okay there's something called the Wilson memo where there's a physicist who meets an a general or an admiral and the general or the Admiral is trying to figure out I think this is an eg& um why is there some program that I'm not allowed to know about I have the highest clearances I have a need to know like sorry we can't tell you he's talking to somebody named Eric W Davis Eric W Davis so far as I can find is the only person other than maybe how put off who I've been able to talk to who speaks anything of these languages this is not a particularly famous physicist how put off is an electrical engineer I think PhD in electrical engineering Eric W Davis says to me I said is is there nobody out here who speaks physics this doesn't make any sense and he says well you Hal and I are the three most technical people on this Joe I'm not even on this so you know as much about it as anyone and you're not even involved and there's only two other people that know
the science behind and like one of them is into remote viewing and oh and and was a Scientologist um so I'm just imagine that you take your wife to the symphony okay you're going to see Beethoven 7th and you look at the string section brass sections in place and the percussion is there and you look at the string section and it's a bunch of C ified public accountants you're like where are the violins where are the violas like oh oh no actually that we have reporters for the AP they're stringers like that's not the same thing we have string theorist that's not the same thing I'm looking for Vi like this is simple MH I've been on this for three years and I can't find anybody who speaks this language which now that is a huge clue imagine that you say that we've lost control of our airspace we're being menaced uh threats to civilian a Aviation military Aviation they're seeing these things every day they defy the physical laws and there are no physicists anywhere to be found that smells like BS or it smells like a pathological level of bureaucratic incompetence and Marco Rubio and Kirsten Gildan if you're out there um can you please find out why there are no technically competent people on an area on an area of National Security and please don't Mumble the words stove pipe or need to know or sources and methods I mean we had a Manhattan Project we staffed it with physicists you have a physics problem if these things are here Joe they are here from so far out of town or they are co-mingling with us on Earth I can't tell you which there are some reports that these things come screaming in from behind our satellites that are trained at Earth along non-ballistic trajectories I have no idea how to say this I'm I'm talking all the time to Avi lobe uh with the Galileo project trying to help him out he needs funding and he needs some ability to you know just if the government won't play ball he's going to put out his own sensors in places like Catalina Island blanket the world and he'll be able to say we're seeing these things or we're not seeing these things but right now we have a puzzle that our government won't release information to its own scientific community and it reminds me of you you
probably know Airplane movie well there's this well there's this point where they're trying to land this airplane with these people who aren't Pilots he says turn on the turn on the landing strip lights and it was Lloyd Bridges or somebody says no that's just what they'll be expecting like he's trying to sabotage the people who are trying to land the plane it doesn't make any sense we're sabotaging our own scientists do you think this is because there's a level of secrecy that's attached to this technology and they've compartmentalized themselves to death and they've gotten themselves to a point where they don't know how to proceed further because they're preventing people from sharing information which is one of the most important things about science right is that scientists get to share information and all work together to try to figure out what the problem is is that a reasonable well here comes the decision trees like I wish I could say yeah that's what I think it is but it might not be so one possibility is let's be honest if you are faking UFOs the last people you want are the world's most brilliant physicists you give them the data they're going to say right oh look I see what you did you put a couple of flashlights with lasers into the sky and you can move them really quickly by the angle and that creates the illusion that something is zipping through the world right if you are faking UFOs if you're faking a UFO gasm the last thing you want is theoretical physicists on the case so that would be one reason to clear them out another reason would be bureaucracy you've got these rival groups they're all starved for money nobody wants to invite somebody smarter than they are so the problem with a B- level and c-level players is that they're looking for dnf players so that they're not threatened that's another possibility a different possibility is that we do have a Manhattan Project and we don't know about it so for example we have a Manhattan project for decoding cryptographic messages and it's called The National Security uh agency NSA and it used to be called No Such agency because we wanted to deny its existence but now we know it's got a giant building how do you know that it exists
if nobody told you well you'd look at the number of number Theory phds and people are specialize in things like elliptic curves and you would notice that a giant number of them after their phds disappear and you track to see well where do those people live where do those names live oh they live in Virginia okay so You' start to get an idea now in the case of UFOs if there was an anti-ra project which is I it's like it's painful for me to even say these words really what it would be is a post einsteinian physics project if you had a post einsteinian physics project you would want three Subs Specialties for sure that would be differential geometry which is the basis for um originally uh general relativity in 1976 75 two guys named cyang and Jim Simons who Jim Simons becomes the world's greatest hedge fund manager um figure out that Quantum field theory is also based on Geometry but it's a different version of differential geometry so that's one specialty that you would want second specialty that you would want would be particle theory or high energy physics however you want to say it the third specialty you'd want is general relativity so if you wanted to detect whether we had a Secret Manhattan Project but it wasn't identifiable by a building because we didn't announce its existence you'd say is there anything that eats those three Specialties unless you believe that there's a secret University system because we have lists of everybody who gets produced with a PhD in these fields if that was the case the two places that you would have a secret place would be Austin which is the successor to The Institute for field physics at the University of Texas Austin gravitational Group G General relativistic Group which has had John we Aral wheeler Steven Weinberg Bryce dwit this is a Powerhouse of a place that you happen to live in and you should have these people who are the the successors to these people on because most of these people have died but the more spectacular place would be satak at Long Island the State University of New York at
Stonybrook has an astounding collection of Monster minds and it's not highly regarded as a university I mean it's it's it's strong but you would have no idea how strong this place is it's got multiple Fields medalists it's got an Institute called the what is it the center for geometry Simon Center for geometry and physics cyang who's AR arguably the greatest living theoretical physicist uh is at this University he's 101 years old so he's he's pretty much on his way out but this is where he's called home and it's not advertised as the PowerHouse that it is so shout out to the State University of New York at Stonybrook if I was going to locate a Manhattan Project in plain sight uh and get us news and world to report this as a minor player in uh in re search that's where I'd go but more importantly and this is the really weird thing and again I don't want to spread this as a rumor but I am saying this if you wanted to imagine that there was that the government wasn't incompetent we actually had great people on this project my friend and adviser who's now died Isador singer once said to me he said the world's greatest mathematics and physics department is Renaissance Technologies and I said what didn't make any sense to me it's great people but it's a hedge fund okay so you've got this weird thing where you've got three basic uh institutions that are very closely intertwined you've got Brook Haven National Laboratory you've got State University of New York at Stonybrook a mid-level university with an out of this world math and physics program and you've got a hedge fund that makes more money than anybody can possibly imagine like there is no there used to be four Fortunes in hedge funds that didn't make any sense um one was de Shaw one was Bernie maid off one was Jeff Epstein and one was Renaissance Technologies wow and I guessed that Bernie maid off was front had a legitimate business and an illegitimate business and was front running the legitimate business with his illegitimate business so he was effectively stealing from his own
clients in two separate div in one division one one was the theft one was the dupes I got that wrong he was just running a Ponzi scheme so shame on me but I was giving talks about you know there's black rock uh and Blackstone as investment groups and I was going around in the early 2000s talking about Black Arts capital I would give talks on Black Arts Capital we' tell you what we're doing but we'd have to kill you and that was a reference to made off in Epstein because Epstein's Fortune made no sense right Renaissance has existed in its Medallion fund for decades has turned in a performance never seen by anything else remotely effectively just a money printing machine no one knows how it works I've met with Jim Simons one-on-one for three hours and because his wife is Economist my wife is an economist I'm a differential geometer he's a differential geometer I gave him this entire theory that all of modern neoclassical economics is actually differential geometric and 3 hours later he's been chain smoking he smokes like a chimney never wears socks very eccentric guy brilliant as the day is long still alive go get him for a guest um he says wow Eric that's brilliant if you knew what we were actually doing you'd be very disappointed he said I never thought of this now a little while later I don't know if you know who Brian keading is he's a professor UCSD he's an experimentalist Jim is basically his uncle and he calls me out to Santa Barbara and Jim is having dinner at his uh his brother's house and what you guys don't know about Jim Simons is that with a guy named SS churn he came up with something called the churn Simon function or CH Simon's functional where if you differentiate this thing the way you differentiate the Einstein Hilbert functional you get an equation that looks very similar to the Einstein field equation for Gravity only it looks a lot more like particle theory so I told Jim I said I don't know if you know this or you don't know this but I think you're sitting on top of a piece of the puzzle that supersedes
general relativity and on the spot asked me whether I wanted to come out to the State University of stone of New York at Stonybrook for a year to work on this we had like a very technical conversation Jim Simons is potentially I mean Beyond brilliant but also has a claim on a part of what I believe is going to supersede general relativity by imitating the Einstein Hilbert action from which the Einstein field equations are derived this thing gener at something which you would call the the churn Simons equation Ed Whitten gets the fields metal for quantizing this thing that looks like gravity but is actually sort of particle theoretic and I I I can't get into it because we don't have the common language to do it um this is huge stuff what's going on at Stonybrook what has happened Stonybrook is Ground Zero for the explosion in mathematical physics that came through something called the wooy yang dictionary where suddenly the quantum became as geometric as general relativity then it got more geometric through something called geometric quantization then it got more geometric through something called geometric uh Quantum field Theory or topological Quantum field Theory or conformal Quantum field Theory I don't know whether satet is the locus uh can you bring up the iconic wall uh picture of the iconic wall this is like a religious artifact let me pee hold hold this right here let's let's hold right here with this we'll bring that up we'll be right back we're back we're up okay so Jamie what was this thing that uh you were pulling up we have a picture here of the iconic wall at Stony Brook it's a little hard to see in the picture so that is what is on it okay so this is like a imagine ancient egyp Egyptian runes and like the most crazy first of all I would correct this thing in a million different ways but you see the AA singer index theorem um equation for the curvature tensor Maxwell's equations in geometric form written out in differential form um equations for string theory this thing E8 uh the 248 largest simple Le group in the world this is like almost a religious pilgrimage site um what's wrong with that that you would correct
you want to put it up yeah uh da star of fa at the bottom of the ellipse equals zero is only the vacuum equations I would put in a term called J um the uh above that you see dim card this is the AA singer remember is Isidor singer um that thing should be expanded to something called the aaot singer uh index theorem for manifolds with boundary above that uh you see the durac equation i/- M * s equal 0 um actually if I'm correct it should be a hybrid between the Rita schwinger and the dur equations based on a three complex tensored with a spinner above that you have a non-relativistic equation which is the Schrodinger equation because there's only one derivative in terms of T but there's that nablo that triangle squared which is different in terms of space so you can't treat space and time asymmetrically above that you have the Einstein field equations R mu newus 12 R * G mu new there should be a cosmological constant in there which is missing um to the right you have the E8 diagram should be the tits freudenthal magic square so I don't know whether this is like a straussian communication in the sense that if you're smart enough you should know that there are tons of Errors limitations and bad choices uh I would not not write out the Maxwells above that you've got these nabla B NAA E equals zero What's the other possibility in terms of these errors somebody hired somebody to do something impressionistic and it got too far in the process carving Indiana Limestone before they figured out that you should really do this better but it's this is gorgeous and it's the only place in the world this is my language Joe this if you ask like what language does Eric speak and why does he act weird on when he comes on my show this is my native l anguage and beautiful piece I mean Beyond it's really wild and and it costs a fortune and this is Jim Simon's money at work and um you need to know Jim okay um I mean so my question is is there some do we have a project if it's not if we're not doing something in satucket or we're not doing something in the University of Texas at Austin I'm
worried we're not doing something anywhere I went to The Institute for advanced study to visit friend acquaintance Nea Aran Hamed who I think very very highly of um he said some pretty wild things should be on the show he's the most bizarre thing in that he's an unbelievable salesman showman who's pathologically honest in a weird way so it's very unusual characteristics um he made the point he said the Casmir effect is an example of negative energy negative like negative mass energy where you take two plates that are so close together that the quantum waves many of the frequencies can't fit between these two plates and so the pressure outside of them is not counterbalanced by pressure between them so they get forced together when they're very very close and his point is that's an example of actual negative Mass negative energy where we pretend that that's not true he says geckos actually use this when they climb up a wall they use the Casmir effect so it's real now the question can you harness it this is always the you know you've got UFOs people who try to think about how you could get physics to do these things focus on the Casmir effect or they'll focus on negative energy solutions now if you look at that 1957 conference at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill one of the most eminent mathematician physicists guy who was first rankled at Cambridge was a guy named uh Herman Bondi an Austrian I think math ician and his paper is about negative mass in general relativity now I don't know if you've ever heard of this stuff no if you have two masses in general they always attract each other gravitationally but what if somehow you had a different kind of mass that was negative just like you could have negative and positive charges well weirdly you change two things you change the force law fals Ma and you change the gravitational law G uh you know f equals g m first mass time second Mass over R squ so when you change both of those oddly the negative mass is still attracted just the same way to the positive mass as if it there was no difference but the positive mass is always repelled so you get this weird solution where the negative Mass chases the positive mass and they go off to
like you know unbounded acceleration so Bondi was thinking about why is it that we've got these artificial conditions in general relativity which we impose by hand they're not the same beautiful marble that Einstein used for his field equations but we throw some extra crappy stuff in called positivity conditions to stop general relativity from giving us Madness so Bondi started asking the question maybe we shouldn't maybe what you think of his madness has meaning and this is why this this conference which is a Confluence of the two families the wittens and the DTs with Fineman and Wheeler and all of these unbelievable characters and attendance is this pivotal strange experience is that people are smoking the ganja on extending general relativity to places that it's never been extended and the highbrow version of this doesn't work and the low brow version of this doesn't work so far as we know the lowbrow version is called pseudoscientific anti-gravity gravity shielding electrogravitics gravit Dynamics the hbr version of this is called quantum gravity and all the most respectable people are in it and it doesn't work and you can't say why are we doing this if it doesn't work why can't I say Ed wht's great but he made a terrible blunder David Gross should David Gross and Ed Wht should be in front of the community explaining why did you take all the smartest people all the resources all the attention meio Kaku get meio Kaku in here with me meio Kaku is out of control Sean Caroll is covering up for this as well in what way they are too kind Brian Green like I had this interchange with Brian Green where I said you know we're not being honest about the failure of string theory and Brian's like oh well maybe we were a little bit exuberant and I I blurred out Institute for arts and ideas I blurred out that's like saying mili my mili was irrational exuberance no you put a lot of people's careers in the in the shredder in order to have this quantum gravity experiment which is like you know the people bowing and praying to this thing that doesn't
work the dog doesn't hunt and anybody who questions it as a crackpot I'm done with this Joe like you want to come at me and say Eric doesn't know what he's talking about I'm debating physicists I'll debate anybody with possible exception of Ed Wht who still scares me but I'll probably debate him too in an open form we have got to purge the physics community of its quackery and the quackery is coming from the high Prestige version of this the high Prestige version of anti-gravity is called quantum gravity and it just doesn't work so to get back to the UFOs Why is the important one I don't know four years five years ago and I was doing this Riff on the twin nuclei problem I said we've got to get off this planet I said we now become Gods but for the wisdom and I just threw it off and you said focus on that that's a great saying turned out to work that came true the Co in your lungs probably came out of the Wuhan Institute of virology and we're lying about it that is engineering the nucleus of the cell the nucleic acids that we found the structure of in their function right now we are screwing around with Vladimir Putin with nukes pretending that the sacred borders of Ukraine which have been fluctuating for centuries are somehow sacran and yes it's terrible that he's invaded and I do think that the bter shouldn't move but we really shouldn't have been antagonizing Russia by pretending that there's no concept of a sphere of influence because I'll tell you when somebody puts nukes on our border with Mexico in Monteray or Baja California we're going to be plenty upset we now need to leave and I tried to say that kind of a little bit light tongue and cheek everything's accelerated think about our water having broken in the last three years this is our womb it's time to go and in order to have any hope of getting off this planet you can't leave it to Elon in chemical rocket can you imagine Elon and I do not meet ever it's like we know a million people in common he knows that I'm focused on getting off this planet he's got a chemical rocket company he's exactly
right about almost everything that he's saying up until he gets to the moon and Mars and like who cares you're not going to terraform the moon and Mars in the next three years or 30 the only way to really get off this planet is to leave the solar system because those are the only two rocks that are even halfway viable and if you think about how far away everything is we've got this thing that I call the Einstein moat the nearest star if we took a human traveling at the top speed a human has ever gone at I think is 100,000 years away at that top speed so you can fantasize but oh yeah we just come up with huge ships and people have multigenerational experience all of Jewish history is 5,000 years and you're talking about 100,000 years no way you're going to do this on a ship friend imagine Wars on a ship exactly and then you have this next problem which is uh oh we're going to use time dilation no no we're going to use wormholes it's like yeah and we're going to bring nunchucks and throwing stars and we're going to be like [ __ ] awesome dude right so it's like all these sort of weird edgy stuff inside here's what's really happening we do not live in SpaceTime this place is not in SpaceTime there's a saying the map is not the territory SpaceTime is a map but the territory is wherever we actually live and SpaceTime has so many limitations on it that Newton never placed so the longer we stay with no advancement in the general theory of relativity the more we feel that we are imprisoned here we're not going anywhere it's all sci-fi it's all garbage it's it's children talking about things that aren't true well [ __ ] every time you fundamentally push physical Theory you better figure out whether you've got a new Neutron or worse or better you're going to get a lever now my claim and so everything I've said up until now has been idiosyncratic research but you can check it online n none of this is something you can't check I'm now going to put on a different hat when you ask me about you Eric because people are going to say crank crazy whatever I'll meet you on the field of battle cut the crap people I am a post einsteinian person I have not been in relativistic context
for years and the reason that you get to leave relativity is that you recover relativity from another theory if you have a theory that includes relativity you can say okay yeah I know how to see relativity inside the theory but I can also see other stuff Beyond it and so that's where I work in some place called geometric Unity because the geometry underneath the standard model and the geometry underneath general relativity is two different geometries called Ronan and osmanian I combined them that was the point of it in this thing there's a very clear idea about how you would go about traveling great distances and so I found that you still have this thing from the last time I was here two years ago so this is a model of A Spacetime metric and if you think about where these hair ties are on the two rulers so this is the angle between for people just listening there's an adjustable ruler with a sphere or a circle rather so two two rulers coming out of a protractor and you change the angle of the ruler so whatever I choose this to be is 90° if I do it like this that's still 90° or this that's what an einsteinian metric is this hair tie that I can move up and down is going to be the time measurement like a watch did you ever see when I gave Lex my watch no oh so you gave Lex a watch and I started talking about multiple time Dimensions so I gave him my Fitbit anyway um if you want to go a very long distance one possibility is is that you do something very energetically expensive but the other possibility is grow the ruler to shrink the distance if the rulers and protractors that Einstein used and he chose one through his equation are instead variables and you have full access to them if I wanted to go a very long distance the first thing i' do is grow the ruler to shrink the distance then go the distance under that ruler and then I'd shrink the ruler back so when you talk about things like oh these things are behaving like nothing I've ever seen well there are a couple things that I'm worried about if these things are real one is does somebody else know how to grow rulers and Shrink rulers and grow watches and Shrink watches speed them up slow them down in
order to get in control of the thing that we thought was SpaceTime the next issue is are there multiple temporal Dimensions so Eric you're friend who's had too much coffee believes that there are either six or four extra temporal dimensions and whatever isn't temporal is spatial so it's either four plus 6 or 6 plus 4 extra Dimensions split between time and space if that's true try to imagine extradimensional Engineers who have full access to something where there's no Arrow of time the only time there's an arrow of time is if time is one on dimensional if time is two-dimensional you have a Whirlpool of time which is either clockwise or counterclockwise if it's three-dimensional you have a right-hand rule of time and there's a left-hand rule of time these are called orientations my belief is that we may be looking at something that has access to either four or six additional dimensions and again I'm reading this off of a page of equations and notes and so you know what they mean in physical reality in other words if this thing on the page is true holy [ __ ] on the other hand if it's just some geometry then you don't worry about it you say okay well extra Dimensions I can think in 17 or three or what doesn't matter it's not that hard to think in higher dimensions spatially for people who do what I do almost none of us can think in multiple temporal Dimensions there's one guy at in Los Angeles at USC called Yak bars a Turkish Jew who keeps talking about two-time physics and I've spoken to him but multiple temporal Dimensions would be a decisive game Cher in terms of changing everything that we know about the world and what would be the technology that someone could use to access that because that's the big thing I know I know I know think about it you're you and I are both old enough to remember cassette tapes and vinyl albums MH on a cassette tape you've played your favorite album all the way through like Dark Side of the Moon and you want to play it again you have to rewind through every song you just played and you hear right but that doesn't happen on an album
towards the end of the turntable time you would just the stylus would pick up and it would skip over all the stuff that you didn't want to hear again and it would go back to some track that you did imagine you could do that with time you didn't have to go back through through time to go back in time do I even know what I mean not not really I'm sort of at the edge of where I can actually say things but you see all of physics proceeds from the time from the assumption that time is onedimensional we have this thing called deterministic propagation so if you take quantum mechanics there are really two rules one is completely deterministic with no probability Theory you've got a system you know its initial conditions and you say if I know the laws of physics I should be able to figure out where this is you know I take this lighter and I throw it up and I catch it and it described a parabola okay initial condition propagation I measure it it's completely determined by the point of release in quantum mechanics you have the second thing called Quantum measurement and that is this weird probabilistic thing that nobody understands everybody says if you if you think you understand the quantum you don't understand it it's mind-blowing blah blah blah but the first part of it is where we're trying to fit gravity and when we quantize it I don't think gravity goes in that slot I think that what you do is you don't quantize gravity you harmonize gravity gravity is the Observer we say well when you make an observation well who's doing the observation is Joe doing the observation is Jamie doing the observation who's doing this observation who has the right to use the second rule for collapsing the state Vector with Schrodinger's Cat and all entanglement weirdness well I think it's gravity I think that part of the story is that gravity is the Observer through something called a pullback operation and when you realize that you realize that you don't naively quantize Gravity the way you quantize everything else in fact gravity is the only field living on the successor to SpaceTime if I'm correct there are two spaces called X and Y all the cool stuff
in here the the electrons the quarks that make up everything that you and I are is living on why except for the metric the rulers and the protractors which lives on X which is how you keep gravity separate and the unification is the unification of these two things in a structure called a bundle now people will go over this and I'm sure professors will say well this is what Eric was saying well he's full of [ __ ] no no no he's actually making a point this story about SpaceTime engineering where you don't use the Einstein field equations because you're using the successor Theory rather than in the Einstein theory the entire planet was pulling on you when you needed to go pee and your legs I mean obviously buff you're fit you just pulled against an entire planet to get out of your chair and you won that's how weak gravity is that's how space and time is barely Bent by all of Earth now you're going to tell me about an alary uh warp drive where okay no here's what's going on the ship is inside of this little bubble of Warp no it isn't if somebody's SpaceTime engineering and they can get here from very far away they're not using general relativity in the standard model my friends they're using a successor Theory and we have become [ __ ] we are not going to look at successor theories because we've all learned the lesson that everybody who tries to bet against the standard model loses everybody who bets against general relativity loses and this is that speech that Morpheus has to give like I'm not going to lie to you neo everyone who's ever faced an agent who stood his ground you know has died it's like okay tough [ __ ] now it's time are we Americans are we scientists are we Cowboys or you know please tell me we're Travis Pastrana and and not some sort of diversity equity and inclusion committee how is it that we move forward well we take the ultimate risk and what do we do it with our credibility watch my Wikipedia entry as I try to do this well what do you you think they're using in terms of a technology to achieve these results and do you think that this is being examined and this is being researched here on Earth or do you think we are being visited I don't I don't know but I know
that if I were the federal government if I was the department of energy and if I were DARPA and if I were any of these people and somebody went on The Joe Rogan Experience with millions of viewers and listeners and started talking like this I would call them up one of the last times I went on not the last time but the time before that the FBI called me immedi you laugh it's hilarious it's not that funny not to you I bet it was to the FBI well watch Eric [ __ ] his pants well okay why don't you have the department of energy call me I mean well what did they talk to you about uh we're concerned about some of the stuff were saying I think they thought I sounded revolutionary like it's time for heads on Pikes like oh that oh yeah right CU like tulsy would put heads on you know because Tulsa is like like vad the Imp Impaler she's going to be going around with a you know chainsaw actually cutting people's heads up she probably should phrase it differently oh stop you say stuff problematic you you say in in MMA that guy's a straightup killer he's an assassin you don't get a call from the FBI no that's true that's true but that is actually a compliment if you use that for aaronfield in any event I get occasionally called by somebody from inside and what I think they're doing first of all one we may be faking a UFO uh situation for reasons that I don't understand if we are faking a UFO situation do you think that there's technology that's available to people in the United States that is beyond our current understanding of what's possible 90% no 90% no because it's very hard it's very hard to imagine physicists continuing to work on nothing for their entire careers the number of people who are going to be retiring shortly having never actually done physics as a physicist we're talking about wasted lives people are going to be very weird when they realize that they blew their entire career and I believe I can say what many of these problems are and if you want to
humiliate me at a leading University just ask me to talk you can put it on video you don't realize how many things the standard model has subtly wrong when we explain it to people it's not that the lran is wrong not that the rules are wrong but we say wrong stuff we say like there are three generations that are only of matter that are only distinguished by mass in other words there's three copies of this stuff here this is like the wood version and then there's the plastic version and then there's the metal version there aren't three there are two generations plus an extra impostor generation which looks like a generation I mean I can get into these things and that should be a provocation somebody says let's call this guy up have him out and find figure out what he's talking about doesn't matter I don't think we're doing physics what do you think they're doing I think we are playing paintball rather than going to war and we're giving prizes for generals who command the command the best paintball Army and then we're referencing everyone else who's actually trying to figure out how to fight to well have you submitted to the paintball competition it's like no I don't want to do paintball I understand that it it keeps your skills up I understand some of them are transferable but I I mean like you've been in street fights not since I was a teenager yeah well I understand like I haven't been for a long time it's different than what you guys do in Brazilian jitu there's lots of stuff you're not allowed to do yeah right you get in a street fight it's a completely different thing sure um what we're doing is not physics in the same sense so what they're doing is they're we're doing sa yeah exactly they're exercising and and and the exercises are keeping people limber they're keeping people in a fighting mentality it's not it's not that Brazilian jiu-jitsu has nothing to do with fighting we've seen people use it in the street for sure right right but small joint manipulation is part of Street Fighting eye gouging is part of street fighting pulling a knife is part of Street Fighting these things are not part of any reputable gym that you might go to so I want to
do the thing that isn't paintball and I didn't want to do it up until recently because the danger of unleashing a nutrino uh Neutron in the world is so high now I realize I'm done with that you guys are willing to play with Putin you're not going to survive you're not the responsible adults I thought you were like if if I unleash a neutron and and it leads to some sort of proliferation of deadly technology it's on you it's not on me you're already taking risks that you shouldn't be taking so if you think 90% sure that this is not coming from here you believe this because you don't think that the proper science in order to achieve these kind of results is being done by the people that you believe are capable of doing it that is correct I know that for example when I talk to Nema um or when I talk to Juan malesa or when I've talked to Natty cyberg these people are absolutely brilliant and they don't know the answer unless they're the greatest actors I've ever seen so the most brilliant physicists are looking at these supposed videos what is the best most compelling that's UFO stuff talking about then uh they're not talking about things that can extend Einstein that there my therefore to get back to your technology question might have engineering applications because it's the engineering applications that are terrifying right right the discovery of the neutron was one thing the teller ulam design was its weaponization so suddenly you know you can do the Zar bomb or or uh Castle Bravo these unbelievable explosions which like the difference between there are CI there were Civil War veterans who saw action in The Civil War who lived to see Ivy Mike in the Pacific so the Civil War was almost a thermonuclear war in terms of human scale it's not it's less than a hundred years different people have forgotten how terrifying important wonderful jaw-dropping and awesome physics is because it hasn't done anything that completely screws your mind like Hiroshima or Nagasaki or Castle Bravo with Castle Bravo that was the test in the Pacific where we thought it
was going to be like controlled and like or or was starfish we did an atmospheric explosion over Hawaii and then the Russians like hold my beer Nova you know we remember I'm the guy 5 years ago who was saying we need above ground nuclear tests because all you people have lost lost your fear like yes Eric is crazy but he's correct what's this one that's Castle Bravo oh oh my God right like so they detonated in that facility and they expected it to be far smaller than it was you they detonated in the Pacific right but it's right next to that facility that was in the video yeah that was that the facility that was initially film like yeah what is this facility that's it was it inok I forget atle so like we just it's crazy how long ago that was and how close it was to the Civil War if you really put it in that context well that's this is what I'm trying to say is what I'm trying to tell you look at that you that's so insane have you done this in Oculus no I have not I highly recommend it they're not going to let us do a nuke above ground so that we can save ourselves by fear oh look at that right this is Rel this is religious stuff Joe yeah it is religious stff like we are we we have announced if somebody's listening to these tests that we did my belief is very shortly before you get the ability to tra Traverse the cosmos if that is possible if that is possible you let off a nuke right it's like yeah it's like you know you you've had kids there's some stuff that happens right before they figure out how to breing break out of the crib you know that's part of UFO folkl too fat man and little boy that's a big part of UFO that once they dropped those that's when all the UFOs started appearing so the question is is you know the analogy I give so I talked to Avi about the following thing I am a fan of something I call the doubly scientific method the usual scientific method makes a hidden assumption that it never voices which is if we're going to study orcus we assume that we are smarter than orcas or if we're going to study seapods right like an octopus we think we're smarter and what do we do we disguise ourselves we create artificial environments we do
all sorts of crazy things based on the fact that we're smarter than what we study from everything from rocks to Orcas the doubly scientific method says okay assume that you're studying a rat in a maze but you yourself are the rat in somebody else's maze now you have to look up the intelligence scale not just down and in the doubly scientific method you have to assume that whatever is studying you is hiding from you the way you are hiding from your subjects so if you see somebody in a Duck Blind for example and he's studying Ducks you understand that somebody may be hiding from you and they might be able to use multiple dimensions of time they might be able to cloak themselves and disguise themselves or for example if you take microscopic UFOs um this GL this cup has a radius of R and a circumference of 2 pi r the disc that it spans is p pi r squared in area but if you look at this cup it's much larger than pi r squ because we pushed it out you could have a sphere where if you could cheaply engineer SpaceTime not through the Einstein field equations but through the successor theory that recovers Einstein you could have an entire stadium inside of a tennis ball just the way this cup doesn't blow your mind until you realize that its area is much greater than P pi r squ you could why look for a Giant floating thing in the sky if you could Bend space and time and you could play with the rulers the way I'm saying I would put this in a tiny little profile whoa so we're only looking at it in terms of our understanding of the distance between objects planets gravity we're we're looking at that all that stuff where if it didn't exist if somehow or another we lived in some contained environment we had no concept of space whatsoever and then we gained access to it we would be unbelievably overwhelmed if you lived in some sort of underground facility your entire life and then one day you got a chance to go outside and see the kek observatory in in Hawaii in a clear night with no moon you would you would be overwhelmed you wouldn't be able to believe that the world was as big as it really was or that the Universe was as big as it was yeah it's an impedance mismatch if you watch meteor showers the way my family
does um uh it's it's religious it's it's it's transformational it's Transcendent the problem as you know from the default uh default mode Network right is that mostly what your brain is doing is not communicating information but screening right your eyes your phobia is precious because that's the thing that can resolve at very high Jamie out of peripheral vision be at theel as my phob I'd be overwhelmed so we're talking about tapping in to a picture of the world that we are not our brain is not prepared for the idea that time is multi-dimensional that was the whole point of giving Lex another watch we don't have a way to think about I'll meet you at 5:15 and 12:30 according to two different scales of time or for example time and space if I'm correct the 14 dimensional manifold that has all the quantum going on on it is split probably seven in seven dimensions because we have six extra time dimensions and four extra space add add six to one and three to four and you get seven so space and time are interchangeable there there's a duality between them all of this stuff is like you know okay how you hit on chicks in a bar hey let me tell you something about space in time you never thought about oh my God does that work what worked for me that's why I'm not in better shape so do you think now when you were talking about these people that want that keep maning you and not giving you access to whatever they're talking about do you think they're talking about some sort of an engineering solution to this type of technology I haven't met anyone in Striking Distance in three years so how could they have something that you don't that's going to change your way of looking is it possible that you've missed something I can just be wrong first of all like this is my this is my life's work right what's the way they phrased it to you which part the part about it changing the way you see the world oh Eric you know like I'll complain about data like that's not the data we have what what we've been showing the public is down sampled meaning it's it's fuzzier it's low resolution
um like how clear is it as clear as you want how clear are you that there's something to see you can see it with your own eyes there's no question dude if I was you I'd just shut the [ __ ] up and let them show me I'd be like let's go under I'm not under any NDA I know but I'm saying I but you want to know way yeah but I want to know in a different look my life's work is a is a theory it's one Theory my entire life is really about one Theory okay like I do this entertainment thing and I talk to people and all this stuff [ __ ] really what I am is an academic who realized that you can't do academics inside of the University system and watch it dis disintegrate into madness as we speak I figured this out a long time ago I want to know whether this is right or wrong so much better so much more than I want to know whether UFOs exist UFOs to me are an indication of whether I'm right or wrong you see it's data it's an input to me mhm because so if you're right that means if we have a future it means we can leave not the planet but the solar system we can exp the cosmos are traversible if we can leave anything else can visit if you look at the entirety of the universe and you imagine that ultimately there are societies that destroy themselves because they get Atomic weapons before they figure out how to leave some societies are smarter than that and they'll be able to leave and and colonize the cosmos and for them not to be here would be Madness so if you've heard my analogy there is an island in the Andaman chain called North Sentinel Island I know it well yeah North Sentinel Island is my model potentially of us we are the north Sentinal e the 39 people that are direct descendants of people left Africa 60,000 years ago right now the we don't know if there's 39 or 300 that kill everybody who lands there essentially there's a story that we actually buggered them an English person buggered them which is why they don't want anyone Landing yeah there actually are some very weird videos where we throw them coconuts because coconuts don't occur in their Island and we actually have non-hostile contact but the most important part of it is India they do not know that they are
claimed by something called India and they don't know that they have a firmy problem because India won't let anyone land unless they break the law so so the great filter of North Sentinel Island is a model for why don't we see anybody why aren't we clear does India exist at some sort of UFO level now this is the doubly scientific method you can laugh at it but then would you laugh at the North stin who are smart enough to say I wonder if there's another Society that's screening everybody from Landing here now what happens on North Sentinel Island if you're watching it all these people with loin claws or no loin Claws and Spears and arrows and stupid stuff suddenly you start hearing radio signals coming out of North Cal Island you're like what then you see little mushroom cloud on the northeast of the island then you see little boats that start exploring around that seem to be propelled internally you're like are they burning the leaves have they invented internal combust some point with the mushroom cloud India says enough is enough we cannot afford to let the North Sentinel be treated as some sort of backwards people who don't have anything developed that scares us we that that's a mushroom cloud man that that's time to go in I see right so my claim is is that you're not used to the doubly scientific method because there's been no reason to have a doubly scientific method do you believe that the orcas are smarter well possibly there aren't that many species that are really smarter than us look at all the [ __ ] we do there aren't many that are dumber than us either but not my point those sorts of models are what distinguish people who are going to get called crazy but aren't because it's an obvious point you have to account for this possibility that there's something called India up in the skies that doesn't want anyone Landing here right who's monitoring what's going on and they're not going to be infinitely patient if they exist now if that's true and we can leave and we can't civilize ourselves and we bring this mad technology with us this ability to destroy I personally feel responsible in a way that my colleagues don't they have these ideas like oh I'm a physicist it's just fun it's really interesting it's a
bunch of puzzles my feeling is you doomed the human race and you don't feel responsible for building a Lifeboat for saving us for like what kind of associ aath are you like I'm not even a physicist Joe and I feel responsible and this gets back you know to to some weird stuff about so they're not thinking about that they're thinking about the equations they're working on they're thinking about the puzzles they're trying to solve it's fun I get to play you know Universe this and puzzle that and it's just like please it's not do do they not think of a way to leave the Earth because they don't think it's a surmountable correct they live in SpaceTime they have crawled into the map the prison built by Einstein and they know that it's not right because there are these two singularities there's this Singularity at the beginning of time which we call the big bang assuming the time were onedimensional and it's part of something called the fredman Robertson Walker SpaceTime model and there's another one at the bottom of the black hole called the Schwarz Shield Singularity and the fact that space and time Kink at these two points is an indication that we have something wrong to a mathematician or a physicist it says your equations work pretty well right up into the point where there's some error that you have that you don't understand and you have division by zero error and if you could figure out your error you don't know what sin you committed but the way that you know you committed a sin is that you have a singularity so they know that there's some successor Theory and they'll give lectures about SpaceTime is doomed and I'm going to talk about non-commutative geometry but these are all ways of avoiding the fact that you haven't done your homework for 50 years okay so like there's some class that you're supposed to show up to and you haven't been in a long time you don't want to show up and suddenly say what what's going on um that's what's happening they are living inside of Einstein's model So when you say something they'll say well that's impossible because you can't go faster than the speed of light it's like that's a space-time concept that's an
einsteinian concept you're not thinking post einsteinian you're not thinking about recovering Einstein or Einstein is what we would call an effective Theory you're thinking that you really live in SpaceTime so you know what you can do and then you fold your arms and say well that's impossible it's like no you have a limited map you think that you know Greenland is the same size as North as uh South America okay then as far as its application what could you imagine would be a way that someone could actually apply these laws these theories so imagine for the moment again this goes back to let me put my my Eric the science person doing his own Theory right this is my thing that I tried to give last time I was here if we imagine that uh there are two spaces and one of them is 14 dimensional and one of them is four-dimensional and gravity connects them that is the metric the gadget think of a phonograph the record is like the 14-dimensional world and are you a doors fan yeah okay so you got doors one Break On Through To The Other Side is on the same side as the Soul Kitchen you don't hear Break On Through To the other side or Soul Kitchen simultaneously they're both there on the record right the phonograph imagine you're doing it on a victrola somehow you got a your retro you're listening to that record in four dimensions but it's a 14 dimensional record so you and I are playing back a 14-dimensional Quantum world but we're only playing back slices of it so the I usion is that we're having a four-dimensional conversation because the victrola part that that phone his master's voice is the four-dimensional thing and what's the stylus it's the metric it's Gravity the stylus is pulling off different data that is simultaneously existing so it's like the record is the Multiverse but you don't think of it in these terms you don't freak out and say oh my God I'm holding the Multiverse because Light My Fire is somewhat adjacent to Soul Kitchen that is my structure that's what I believe is true and we're having the
discussion is if it's only the phonograph uh the victrola part mhm if you could then go to the record you don't have to scratch your way back you can do these weird moves where you can alight the stylus in different places and Shrink things and grow things and change the Angles and all this stuff and you have engineering possibilities like I'm I will say what I believe the internal properties of the particles that we have yet to find the dark matter if you will are I will tell you places that I believe the standard model is wrong and I'm happy to go down on the ship and move on with my life if I'm wrong but I can't I've been 40 years trying to have this conversation with a competent person and every excuse Under the Sun is used to avoid talking about what I'm saying and and I'll say some stuff that when I 1987 around I proposed a set of equations that were like the junior version of geometric Unity I was told that those equations were insufficiently nonlinear that they involve Spinners and Spinners have nothing to do with something called self-duality that um I'd violated the spin statistics the a whole bunch of things and I was invited to leave Harvard where they said you have to move out of Massachusetts you cannot live in Massachusetts and I said you don't have the right to tell me where I can live that's not part of our agreement um they said well if you want to continue in this department you have to move out of Massachusetts I only what what was the reasoning behind that they thought I was wrong and crazy so but well let me keep in 1994 Ed Whitten is at giving a lecture uh in the main seminar room in building 2 in the MIT math department where I am now a postto under a National Science Foundation Fellowship so I had gone through huge trouble and I'd crawled back on top and edwt says the self-duality revolution which is related to Jim Simon's work which I was saying before he says theoretically you don't have to deal with these super complicated equations anymore he doesn't say what replaces them
and a guy named I think Alan nson who's now a Cornell I think raises his hand like a punk and he says uh do you want to tell us what equations we would use instead and Ed Wht writes down these two sets these set of two equations and I look at them and I say those are the equations that I proposed at Harvard in like five years ago or what it seven years ago and I said huh that's really interesting he's about to get told that they're insufficiently nonlinear that they involve Spinners which can't possibly involve self-duality and that he's violated spin statistics and I'm looking forward to watching what happens when Ed Wht is told this couple weeks later I'm at the MIT commissary with is singer and the math physics group and a guy named andr senes Hungarian brilliant guy now in Geneva I think says have you heard the news he comes by so what news all of Donaldson theory in self-dual equations is falling it's like what it's like they were using the wrong equations everything has become trivially easy um can you bring up an article called gauge theory is dead Long Live gauge Theory so like I I didn't want to tell these stories the last time I this is like super painful but I'm done with this stuff I'm just completely done with this so you see there was this thing called the self-dual equations which Isidor singer brought to Michael latia and Nigel Hitchin oh the other one was uh if if Spinners were involved Nigel Hitchin would know and he would have told us which is [ __ ] keep going to the next page the new gauge there you see those two equations da of 5 equals z I had written SII rather than Fi Fi has to do with uh the spin of the field but fa plus equals I I had written these things down in a slightly different form and had been effectively laughed out of Harvard for this and it turns out that what was going on was uh Ed Whitten had written these things down and now all of these people were converted and a lecture is given at room 507 in the Harvard math department on
the fifth floor across from the office of a guy named RL bot who is absolutely not my adviser but the internet is deter determined to make him my adviser it's making me really upset R bot is my hero but he was not my adviser he's a great man and you shouldn't do that to him and you shouldn't do that to me so I go to this lecture and the person giving it who really the closest thing to I had to an adviser if it's not a guy named draw barnatan is the brother of somebody you've had on your program you've had Gary tabs on your program his brother is named Clifford tabs and Clifford tabs had picked a fight with Princeton and he had said you know these guys at Princeton we work our asses off to get these results in Donaldson Theory these equations are so hard and then always after the fact Princeton tells us what we're really doing you know thanks gu so it's a fight between Cambridge and Princeton and now he's got to eat crow okay so he's giving this lecture and he titles it wht's magical equations this is the same guy who tells me I can't live in Massachusetts in 1987 and he's going on he's like saying this is the greatest day of my life I was a I was in prison I was working at hard labor for 10 years these equations make everything trivially easy I am sitting in the back row of room 507 picking my nose and a guy in the front seat the right hand side is named David kajon one of the most brilliant people on the planet and he usually falls asleep during the lecture he's like a Soviet Jew who got through the anti-semitic system at Moscow State like unbelievable mind and he says excuse me cliff didn't we have a student at some point who told us to look at the spinner bundles and maybe these equations and cliff goes white as a ghost and I'm picking my nose right nostril and the entire room swivels and looks at me and then I realize like everybody actually remembers what I was saying and my thesis is on the spinner bundles all this stuff and I have this question do I tell them the whole Theory and I left mathematics at that moment I just decided I can't trust you people cliff knows the answer Cliff is supposed to
say you know Eric told me to look at that and he won't do it he's sitting there giving the credit not even to cyberg and Whitten who are the two people who do these equations he's giving a whole thing to Whitten because he's scared because he's apologizing he's saying I screwed up I doubted you Princeton Princeton was right Harvard was wrong new Jersey beats Massachusetts tough [ __ ] that's the way it goes but Massachusetts actually had an entrance in that game and that was me and then Isidor singer writes somewhere in one of his papers you know I learned about this years ago um before from from Eric Weinstein a paper with Cano and uh Balu so this was my trajectory this is why I left mathematics in part because I realized that there was just no honor there was no way of making a name and and like people are just going to give away my stuff so when I when I did this draft of gu I said I'm an Entertainer people don't have any clue why it's because I have copyright protection if I release a work of entertainment you can't just name it after yourself or your friend or whoever you're upset with you know that might hurt you it's like that's mine it's my work of entertainment I own the portal podcast tough [ __ ] now all that is long in the past I don't want the cyberg Wht equations which is what they're now called Natty cyberg and I have worked this out years ago at a meeting in San Francisco he got $3 million I forced him to give me a hug in front of the institute for advanced study call it even this is so much bigger than this those things the cyberg Gritten equations is the barest thumbnail of what's coming and if we don't use this stuff we're doomed here with XI and Biden and kamla and Trump and Putin and zalinski and kamany and all of these idiots we're not going to make it what I work on where I've disappeared where's the portal we like the portal you know it's like do you notice how everything that you love gets destroyed Jordan Peterson Brett Weinstein Sam Harris even Lex Freedman they go after Lex Freedman after I warn Lex they're going to come for you because of his reading listed
because they Mis portray him as if he's claiming to be an MIT Professor which he's never claimed in his life they destroy all of us if we don't sing from the Himel this is so important to me because it's hope if I'm wrong then maybe we don't have a plan a way off this planet maybe we don't have a way to the solar system out of the solar system that's bad news what would be the technology that would harness this you would figure out how to do the stuff on the record rather than the phonograph the vrola you would start to move the space-time metric you would move along the directions of the metric not using the Einstein field equations so you would try to figure out okay if we're in flatland here a four-dimensional slice of a 14 dimensional world how do I go what we I have to say it in my own language along the 10-dimensional normal bundle in other words 14 equals four dimensions we know plus 10 we don't call the 10 we don't the normal bundle you'd start navigating in the normal bundle you'd stop you start stop thinking about this sound coming out of the victrola you'd say that's three components there's a stylus there's a horn and there's a record and you'd engineer around that so that you had a really efficient way to go very far or to to Circle back in time without going back through times you try to figure out what can I do with the stylus where can I put the stylus on the record to get different and what technology would you employ to do that well so first of all we know about three families of matter like this is made everything you see around you is made of the first family of matter it's all up quirks down quirks electrons and you and I are being penetrated as much as that's very distasteful by neutrinos that's the first family of matter okay then there's a second family where the up and down quirks are replaced by charm and strange the neutrino is replaced by the muon nutrino the electron is replaced by the muon and then there's a third one where the muon is replaced by the TOA top bottom and to neutrinos okay if I'm correct there are two additional generations of matter that are not or families of matter that are not Generations they don't have the same structure as the ones we already know
some of them are something called spin three Hales and some of them are exotic spin one half matter so first of all if have dark matter that you have no idea of you can't do dark chemistry but if you do have an idea then you can guess at what dark chemistry would be you'll have dark light um everything you see here is spun uh left-handed if it's matter and spun right-handed if it's anti-matter my claim is we are decoupled from matter that spins right and antimatter that spins left but in a low gravitational environment it's like my left and my hand right hand don't know each other so we have it you know you have the asymmetry of a hand which is you say oh digits two and four look like each other the middle finger is the is the axis of symmetry and unfortunately the pinky and the thumb look wildly different but let's fudge it and imagine that there's a symmetry suddenly you realize neurologically you're disconnected and it's thumb to thumb on a different hand you didn't know anything about so my claim is I believe that this world that appears to have a left-handed right-handed nature like Cindy Crawford has a beauty mark so you know whether a photo is of her or her Mirror Image mhm there's like another Cindy Crawford with the beauty mark on the other side sorry I'm Da dating myself people but that world would have engineering possibilities to do dark chemistry we would have additional forces normally we get additional forces through something called Grand unification where we use theories called su5 and spin 10 or S so10 and those are the wrong flavors of the right idea the right flavor would be called spin 6 comma 4 and su5 would be replaced by su3 comma 2 so there would be new unifications new forces it would produce new problems because when you put that comma you know three comma two you create something that is more space- timey than more part than particle physics so there's stuff we don't know how to deal with but you see there's nothing in the laws of physics that say the the rules of the universe will conform to what particle theorists currently know how to handle nature seems to know things we don't know how to do and the time is ended for
us to tell nature you can't have this or you must have that because we don't know how to handle you otherwise tough luck it's the forces are different the opportunities are different something called the ptis Salam Theory uh of grand unification is tied to the Einstein theory and what I want to do is to say can I get people Lawyers Guns and Money to investigate this so that we can go Traverse the cosmos I don't know how to do the engineering any more than the person who invented the neutron was it Chadwick or who's the one who found it he wasn't Lee miter who figured out the chain reaction and she wasn't Enrico fery who figured out how to do it experimentally that wasn't Trinity which was the Manhattan Project and they weren't teller and ulam so it's not on Eric to figure out how to do the engineering project I need people what could you imagine would be involved in figuring out a way to harness that like and actually utilize it and actually go interdimensionally like what what would you have to do what kind of power would have to be generated like what would be involved so what wouldn't be involved is getting an entire planet to put a tiny dent in SpaceTime because that's not going to work it would be a question of saying I know about more degrees of freedom are those degrees of freedom accessible and to to give you an idea of what's involved if you take a proton with two up quirks and a down Quirk so put two U's and a d inside of a ball you call a proton you're tempted to say okay if those are hard little balls inside I want to pull one out doesn't work the equations have something that used to be called infr slavery but we're not allowed to say the word slavery because of diversity include I'm going to say slavery because I'm here you cannot pull a quark out of a proton so what looks like a degree of freedom is not accessible to you in the equations you see up quirks and down quirks you don't see protons and neutrons but the consequence of the Ed of the equations is protons and neutrons right so when you look at the equations you can't tell is that accessible or inaccessible to bring it back to the UFO point the the reason UFOs matter to me is if they're here then these degrees of freedom are accessible and if they're
not here then it's probably like protons being filled with up quirks and down quirks that we can't engineer the consequences of Quark structure inside of the atom industrially are zero we've been at this since you're born went 67 MH the year after you're born we find quirks we have zero industrial applications all right that means you have to think about both possibilities one that these things are actionable if they're right so first of all Eric can be wrong and I'm happy to be wrong if I'm wrong or I can be right if I'm right then it splits into a second leg level of the decision tree maybe the new degrees of freedom are things we can play with at the engineering level and maybe they're inaccessible just the way we can't play with up quirks and down quirks directly if we can play with it then we've got so many new toys you have no idea new forces new matter new possibilities to flit in and out between dark and light matter but from an engineering perspective how how would you make any of this happen you would build something based on new plans that did something that nothing else could do so to give an example in the late 50s we thought we knew electromagnetism cold we've been playing it with with it since Maxwell's time right two guys named Aon off and bom said here's a crazy experiment take a tube that's perfectly insulated almost and run current through it and then pass an electron beam from like a cathode ray tube and reflect it off mirrors and see when it comes back and interferes with itself how how it interferes if it's perfectly influence uh insulated it shouldn't be able to tell whether there's current running through the center of the solenoid of that tube tube turns out when you turn on the tube and you run current through it the Electron Beam can detect whether there's current running through it through magic technically magic here means something called homi we didn't know that the electromagnetic fields are not where electromagnetism really happens it's something called the electromagnetic potential it's a precursor that actually determines the universe it determines
the electromagnetic fields but but this weird thing where somehow the current inside a perfectly insulated tube is influencing the world outside of it was like holy smokes we we've been living with this stuff for how long we had no idea how it works the way You' do this is we we'd get together with a bunch of people and we'd say if Eric is correct or somebody else is correct and you started to play with this extended model of both general relativity and the standard model what are some experiments we could run that you think would have no actual content just the way the Aon off bom experiment looks like it's not going to do anything or the Casmir effect or finding out that beta Decay radioactive decay knows its left from its right these are all hugely surprising discoveries I don't know how to do that and this is one of the reasons I keep talking to Brian keading who's an experimentalist because what you see here in the studio is 100% the theorists you only invite theorists from physics you don't invite experimentalists I don't know how to talk to the experimentalist but that's why I go down to the University of California San Diego and play down there because I want to talk to people who are like how do how do we build this you're the engineers you're the a physics tell me what tell me what I'm saying in terms that we can build something and actually see if it has consequences and what could it be in terms of like building something imagine for example that you look at the equivalence principle right so the equivalence principle says that the inertial mass how much mass something appears to have when it's moving how resistant it is to force that's the same according to Einstein as the gravitational force right the gravitational Mass so gravitational Mass equals inertial mass there are like a whole bunch of different flavors of mass that happen to all be equal according to different principles according to something called spontaneous symmetry breaking mass is generated by the interaction with the higs field in general it's not a number the way we thought it was coded into an equation it's something we would call a vacuum expectation value through a ukawa coupling never mind it's that
thing about the molassus causes the mass to feel heavier even though the mass of the cup hasn't changed because it's requiring more and more Force to push if what we have is a bunch of different kinds of masks we might be able to break some of these things like the equivalence principle we might be able to generate negative Mass which is not technically excluded but is incredibly hard to think about we might be able to do things right the only way we keep Mass always positive is by putting in artificial conditions if you have a bigger Theory you start to realize how you would do these things naturally so for example we might be able to dial the mass of things differently by actually engineering the thing that we call the higs field the higs field is the only thing that doesn't spin that is fundamental when we spin SpaceTime and they've detected the higs bosen on a large an large hyron collider right 100% 2012 I think so but this is an enormous collider right I mean to be able to generate the higs it had to go through how many kilometers and it's an enormous piece of equipment right but that's in part because it's a stupid piece of equipment what we're really doing is banging rocks together except the rocks are called protons so you're thinking there could be an engineering solution where you could generate something like that but from a much smaller footprint 100% that's a possibility because right now what we're doing is we're using electromagnetism only the only force that we actually have engineering power over is electromagnetism ISM like when we do chemistry so you fertilize your lawn you're using electron orbitals based on electromagnetism between the proton and the electron in an atom or molecule we don't know how to inter interfere with the weak force or the or the gravitational force both of those are so weak that they're impossible and the strong force is crazily nuclear in super short range so we've got control of one out of four forces I can tell you what I believe the additional forces are but what I need is I need people who are closer to engineering experiment and standard
Theory I mean I'm not even a physicist Joe so I right what I'm what I'm curious about is like what caused this shift in you to think about UFOs and UFO reports has being credible because we're talking theoretically and you're talking about your understanding of Dimensions because I thought it was not I thought it was a smoke screen that we were using to do aerospace engineering projects I thought it was like Operation Fortitude or op operation bodyguard and so it's like okay please don't bother me with your sci-fi stories it's Space Opera you know for the same reason that I don't go into a Scientology Center and spend all my time thinking about zenu I'm not going to spend all my time worried about space oper and what changed meeting an enormous number of very sober very grownup people who seem to be changed alter and believe that this is real I have met an enormous orous number of people now who have had personal firsthand like sober people who've had crazy firsthand encounters I don't understand how they're doing this as actors very often it's unwanted it ruins their lives it's sad you know I ended up in San Marino uh at Lou alzando invitation then Lou couldn't come so I ended up speaking in loose place at a UFO me he was crazy but I met so many people who were just like Eric you know let me explain my experience to you and I'm just not prepared for these highly detailed stories that have so much similarity one to the next you know like the Skinwalker Ranch thing on uh the History Channel is look looks incredibly junky put out by Prometheus entertainment I know Brandon fugle the owner of the ranch and I know Eric Bard we keep talking via phone Eric Bard is like almost the only other person who has some idea of what differential forms are tensor analysis is he's a sober normal human being sitting out there on a ranch trying to figure out what the hell he's looking at I don't think he's lying to me and I don't think Brandon is lying to me and then you hear their stories like the Gary Nolan thing I was completely unpr have you dealt with Gary no I watched him on Lex though I think Gary told me a story where he's like dealing with a subject he's a medical guy and that's how he got involved with
this and you know somehow the medic medical person the medical person that he is is talking to a subject who says you know I encountered a spinning disc in the sky or whatever and a ball of light comes brother another one of these stories and he's like you know the ball of light entered my body and I was in pain but I it was okay and it exited and whatever and then Gary looks at the person and there's a path of necrosis exactly where the person describes this thing entering and exiting like what are you are you like tell me what the level of conspiracy is here that would be necessary to get all of this indirect evidence and this is the the basic puzzle of UFOs zero responsible adult direct evidence in the public domain zero so far as I can tell more indirect evidence than you can possibly imagine with sober normal people claiming things that I can't believe firsthand stuff and then and then it gets weirder and worse from that I would love to keep this just at metallic flying objects but like no it's always going to be like no they they go under the water and then you know the next level is like cattle mutilation it's like please don't bring in cattle mutilation oh yeah the stapes you know the smallest bone in the body the three bones that make mammals mammals uh you know one of them seems to be frequently missing and then like Paul helier and Kim Eed and Ben Rich then there this like crazy level where the former Canadian Canadian defense minister believes that there's a Galactic Federation the humans are in contact and they is head of the Israeli SP it's like enough I can't handle it I don't know what we're looking at and I'd love to keep it at something sober and I see Zero direct evidence if we're going to go on the direct evidence Elon is right it's [ __ ] tough luck but I don't know how this amount of indirect evidence occurs because I don't think the government is capable of Faking this on the other hand if we go by the indirect evidence how is it that none of us have like even the center of mass coordinates of this Tic Tac you you'll never hear me talking about the Tic Tac or the Zimbabwe kids or whatever why because since the mid-70s we've been able to do CGI in Star Wars that looks much more
realistic than any video I've ever seen so you you can show me any video and I don't care it's just not interesting to me we don't have Center of mass coordinates for this Tik that's claimed by the US government over the nits please oh because it's sensitive we don't stop it shut up hush so is that they don't have it they won't release no no they claim it's not releas it can't be released to the public right and I'm like so down sample it Dr reses it's not even our ship people you're claiming it's something you can't understand and you have the 3D coordinates and I can't play with it in a model on like Google Earth or SketchUp or something go f yourselves you're going to stovepipe this need to know I have a need to know I'm trying to do science is that the most compelling one to you the Tic Tac take your pick it has the most the most qualified people watching it yeah but I don't I don't want to get involved with go fast or gimbal or this or that or the Phoenix lights or the Belgium it's like stop teasing me yeah this is the Meredith Baker problem when I was a 14-year-old guy I thought Meredith Baker was the hottest thing in the world I wanted to go out with her what it's a girl you knew yeah okay yeah and every time I asked her out she's like I really want to go out with you but I really have to wash my hair or I really have to hang out with my I like this is not going for well at some point somebody pulls me aside and say Eric you're Jewish she's Mormon get the hint she love she likes you but there was nothing going to happen okay I get it this is Meredith Baker you don't want for some reason to tell me what's actually going on then don't waste my time don't spend my credibility do you think that they don't want to release the information because they're still trying to digest it themselves and they don't want it to get out publicly and get into the hands of I'm smart enough to figure this out I believe wouldn't if there was something that was beyond our understanding you want you you want that data to be released can we have a glass of of something so that I can hide behind the fact that I had a sip of alcohol all
right I'm going to take a leak again and we'll come back with ice and alcohol for Eric perfect apparently cheers sir cheers all right now you got your excuse okay let's talk crazy all right that's good um is good thank you Glenn morange Mori is that how you say it I don't know how's it spelled I thought it was Mori yeah how you say it Glenn more orangy Glen more orangy I'd call it mangi but I don't think that's right either I think it's Mori Glenn moreni uh 18 I thought it was Glen Mori um so where were we you wanted to know what I think is really going on yeah what it was really going on there um one possibility is we did a lot of bad stuff and we cannot get out of the fact that if we release what it is that we actually know and what has been going on there's going to be a lot of consequence bad stuff as in maybe people got killed maybe people were made crazy when they weren't crazy because they saw things so if you think about um you know about de confliction de confliction yeah no if you have a Blue on Blue situation that means that two official representatives of the US government are stumbling over each other you've got local law enforcement like the first scene of The Matrix um is they got really [ __ ] intimidating Joe now I'm scared um just ask ifs oh wow nicely done us alerted Russia to Biden's Ukraine visit for deconfliction purposes wow so hey don't blow up this city because Biden's going to be there and the there are three systems that stop the first scene in The Matrix where the agents show up in local law enforcement is like I think we can handle one little girl right no Lieutenant your men are already dead that's a deconfliction situation we have three things I think called case Explorer uh RIS is safe and um oh God sa safety net we don't know about these things because this is only for grown-ups in the government so they have to like file what it is that they're doing and then oh we've got an undercover agent who's posing as a Colombian drug lord don't bust him
because we've got like 10 years invested in this thing so I tried to use this system I called up I think case Explorer for South Florida I got into a half an hour okay case explor okay I wonder how you found uh try um RS safe I think that's the one I don't want to keep looking up all these websites yeah he's going to get in trouble flagged but I'll do it I'll do it um so This Is How They deconflict Blue on Blue but you see you and I are also blue we're having a conversation and we may be stumbling on something the government doesn't want us to know which is what happened when covid may be Spilled Out yeah you see officer safety event deconfliction system safeguarding law enforcement through information sharing right so this is how they play keep away from the rest of us where they tell each other what they're doing and the rest of us can't know what's going going on now when you say Blue on Blue there's a situation that I want to give a name to because it doesn't have a name which I'm going to call baby on Cobalt and Cobalt on baby baby and Cobalt are two forms of blue cobalt is government and baby is like civilians like you and me what happens when a civilian stumbles on one of these operations they're not allowed to use these systems I I called up the south Florida I think case Explorer had a half an hour conversation they were telling me all sorts of stuff and I said I'd like to hear about uh Jeffrey Epstein like who's calling I'm a private citizen uh this call will be terminated in 5 seconds and then they they hung up on me so I realized okay ordinary human beings cannot use these systems I think a lot of what's going on is that we keep tripping over government operations in the Cobalt sector but we're baby blue and they don't have any system for for figuring out how to get rid of a civilian who stumbles on it like a drug smuggling operation like okay so Jeffrey epin traffics your daughter what do you do if he's an intelligence asset you don't know you just want the creep away from your kid so you file a complaint or whatever now you've got a situation where they don't know what to do because you've got a civilian and you've got
some sort of super secret dark thing that isn't supposed to exist my claim is that conspiracy theorist is is basically uh Cobalt on baby in other words the government warning a private citizen get away from that thing okay we will start to destroy your reputation if you do not cease and desist but there's no plan so if you were the guy who figured out D-Day he like wow these are there's a huge increase in the inflatable balloons I think that they might be tanks there's no troops under that uh Army designation you'd be a threat to this incredible operation because you have free speech and nobody knows how to shut you up right so consider that none of us know the answer to what does the government do when private citizens start to figure out statecraft narratives are [ __ ] so for example Jeff Sachs was called in to supervise the investigation into the origin of covid at the Lancet and he puts in place all of the people who are involved with this through uh Peter daik he later figures out oh my God I just put the foxes in charge of the hen house m and he Blows the Whistle so what if we have like a um since the 1970s a 45-year-old workaround of the biological weapons convention in Wuhan we've created this thing called one Health and the Eco Health Alliance we took over as a hippie charity and if you ever take a look at the board of advisers of Eco Health Alliance it's wildly overpowered including my old Mentor uh who's the head of the Sloan foundation and the ex- head of the National Science Foundation none of you guys look at the board of directors crazy we keep tripping on these official statecraft narratives that's why they won't let us question the zalinsky stuff they won't let us question the origin of covid they won't let us question the vaccines they won't let us question whether they're are Therapeutics these are all Cobalt on baby things it's horse Dormer what's wrong with you people you're all lunatics you're you're pathological losers okay I get it you're just destroying my Wikipedia entry because I keep asking questions because actually you need to have a Time out you're out of control I'm fine but you're going to turn this into pathologizing when you
pathologize people who've seen the truth now you've got a real problem you gaslit American citizens because you couldn't do your effing job really that's interesting did you kill anyone did you do wet work did you do digital wet work what did we just find out from the Twitter files right how many times did I say I'm being throttled I'm being manipulated um the government doesn't want to take responsibility we have this what is it gec that's uh from the state department we have cisa inside of the Department of homel Security these people are creating fake conversations on Twitter they're creating fake reports about The Hunter Biden laptop to influence the election we didn't have a free and fair election it had nothing to do with ballot stuffing or miscounting so I believe that partially why we're not talking is that we've done so many bad things around UFOs that we don't want to come clean wow that's interesting okay so that's one thing two if there's imagine that there's one enormous update coming like your life is partially a lie I think many of us have figured out that we originally believed that it was Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone and now we're not quite so sure right I don't know do you know that it was Lee Harvey Oswell well certainly the Warren report doesn't hold a lot of water with me anymore a lot of us are going to have to deal with the fact that a lot of what we've been taught is crazy is not crazy like the fact that this virus seems to have come out of a lab where we were trying to figure out how to put a fur in cleavage site into a humanized Corona virus and we're leaving in place the exact architecture that got us into this meth without hearings without hearings there's no way we would do this without hearings so what we're seeing is we're seeing an explosion a collision between social media empowered humans who are smart trying to figure out the story and the government stonewalling us so that we can't figure out our own lives like what did my children get injected or infected with something that came out of your stupidity because Ralph baric and Peter daik can't do their goddamn jobs maybe are we going to have a tribunal about the fact that you infected planet
Earth and you decreased human life expectancy by causing us to fight a different covid envir you know infection every year maybe these are hugely consequential issues and I believe that UFOs are in part a hugely consequential issues for reasons that may have to do with the fact that this is of the fake version right it's not Overlord it's bodyguard or fortitude like I don't know but we've certainly gaslit people and I think we're not prepared to take responsibility for ruining the lives of ordinary Americans who were smart and honest because we couldn't do our jobs in the intelligence and defense communities what do you think is responsible for the shift in communication about this stuff now because in the past no one would acknowledge it no one would talk about it now they're talking about it fair openly and they're discussing it when I think about things like that I go well there's a cynic in me that says oh if they're saying this and it's probably horeshit they're probably covering up for some drones that they've created they are you think well yes in other words the UFO phenomena is multiple things we know that it's a cover story for things like the stealth bomber we also know that it's a cover that it's cover story for our inability to take action against surveillance overflights of durables and balloons we also know that it's people missing things like I've seen two UFOs recently that fooled other people but I was able to figure out partially one with the help of Mick West who is my antagonist but also we're sort of we're Frenemies kind of um and the other one was like a myar balloon that looked like a spherical fireworks display off the coast between Malibu and Catalina the way it was being reflected by the sunlight yeah you know the thing people don't understand about myar balloons is that at night a balloons is a very confusing object to encounter because all you're seeing is like randomly scattered light and it's like oh my God you know this is like the Phoenix Lights and I have sense I have like video of people in line at a Thai restaurant saying oh my god I've never seen anything like this of course I go across the street to investigate and it says happy
birthday so there's no question that it's a certain amount of people wanting to see things that aren't there yes that's a big attraction yep um so this desire thing you have to moderate your desire yes it's certainly a cover story it's certainly um stuff we can't explain but the claim really coming from inside the Beast is we've seen stuff that is so clear that we know that there's something there and Eric we just can't show it to you and by the way the reason that it seems to be uh government restricted first of all it's very hard to take good video with a phone I don't know if you've noticed this they're getting better at it I found like I now spend my flights I take the window seat and I sit there with my camera glued uh to the window under um stop action what is it called slow-mo right or not slow-mo the time lapse there I I'm up in the sky for a long time there's basically nothing up there but you're trying to find things on your phone but in part it's like I do this thing where I take license plates and every time I see a license plate with three letters like NSA or MIT I I take a picture of it I have a huge number of these things because I'm trying to train my brain here's what random noise looks like like in other words it's not telling you to do something it's not if it says BTC I shouldn't go out and buy a bunch of Bitcoin right um people don't realize that you have to train yourself because you're going to see lots of patterns once you start looking for them in finance I I used to build random number generators that had the correlation of the markets and I would generate pictures and the financial professor professionals would say oh we've got to buy this is a classic Head and Shoulders pattern and there's going to break out at such it's like I generated this out of a simulator written in Python um so people are just they want to believe so much yeah that they're going to lie it's an issue yeah it's an issue with Bigfoot it's an issue with everything it's an issue with all of us it's an issue with me too I have desires and I have to keep my desires in check yeah everyone I have them horrible horrible with the unknown horrible with
UFOs horrible we have to camp and DeCamp and that's what I think what you do is great which is you sort of believe and then you say I give up I change right I go back and forth well that's what I do now at the end of the day once you've pulled out all the mundane things the question is is there a res residue left of things that actually are mind-blowing I can't tell you until I actually see stuff that somebody's willing to say we captured this it looks like this but I can tell you that I assured repeatedly by people who seem incredibly sober who not seem to be great actors that they have seen amazing things we have data that is as clear as you can imagine and we can't release it and then you have this question of is there anyone smart who's trained in this very small number of areas who's looked at this or are you just going to like eyeball it and pretend that it violates physical law when you don't even know physical you don't know physical law so far as I know Eric W Davis is the top person who knows what it tensor is on this project are you are you kidding me try to imagine that you're trying to do the Manhattan Project with with the K-pop groups it's that big of a difference people will say well we have electrical engineers like I don't care I'm talking Quantum field theorist I'm talking differential geometry general relativity and and people are tired of you like you're an elitist you're not oh go [ __ ] your I shouldn't have said that please Ed soft what you said it really soft I know I know it was very soft go [ __ ] but it's just like one of the kindest ever it was no anger in your voice I'm trying to be an adult but it's been three years you've been wasting my time yeah you say the word stove pipe as if it means something shut up and show us what you've got we're your team so I like your theory that they're covering up for some stuff that is I mean if if really people have been harmed and I mean this one of the claims of uh back engineering these things it's always fascinated me is that there was uh Bob Bazar said there's a previous person who was working on the job they died they they tried to do something and there was some sort of an explosion and
it was limited into what I think you and him together would be the greatest podcast of all time would you be interested in doing that because you'd be able to tell oh yeah we we'll dose you up what do you want Aderall do you want mushrooms we got I want I want a line of Sor and desert toads and every time you answer a question wrong you got to lick the toad but you would be able to tell whether or not it's nonsense yes and no I'm not the best person you'd be better at it than me it be better than you for sure for sure but you want to know look Sean Carol and I Sean Carol and I don't get along you need to be here for this all right you I I'll show up specifically show up you got to be ready man this is if you and him together would be so fascinating his story hasn't [ __ ] change since 1989 man it's it's if he's telling the truth if he really was this propulsions expert from Los Alamos labs who they brought in because they were kind of trying to figure out what the [ __ ] is going on and everything's compartmentalized so no one can talk to anyone so no real science can be done and they're saying tell me what you know like let's figure this out and he gets to it and almost immediately he's like this is nothing that we know how to do this is nothing that we're making this is something from some it's something that's not even designed for a human form it's designed if if it's a physical vehicle it's designed for something much smaller than humans I know nothing about Bob Lazar I've seen something about Element 115 which I don't understand is like he predicted what well yes they're they're indexed by the number of protons so I can predict that you know the elements we have yet to discover are going to be in the same numeric I don't get this um that's interesting yeah but I think the claim is different the claim is is that this element must have some property or that he's saying it's a stable version of this element and that in wherever these beings are from I see they have access to a stable version of this element that we don't have access to here so let me make an analogy gold I don't know if you know this about gold what we call Gold is the single stable version of gold there are a bunch of isotopes that are all radioactive that
turn into other stuff so like if I have to pay you in Gold if I choose a gold that isn't the one that works it's completely unstable so you gave me unstable gold I know I give you un what happens do you die if you touch it well you C you'll certainly get some radiation but you'll also find that there's much less gold every time you check on your amount my precious right W but what I'm trying to get at is that um it may be a claim that there's an island of stability like with gold there's one isotope that's stable right um I don't know anything about that I'm not the guy for that but I can I can here's the thing Joe I can tell you what I know and what I don't know and I could certainly probe him the the thing that I'm uncomfortable about I don't know if you saw my interaction with how put off no I did not so I interview Hal put off and we're talking about this stuff and it goes to remote viewing I'm like oh brother I have to do remote viewing now but if you think about it when you get like a FaceTime call from your wife who's on traveling on business or something or you're traveling on business doesn't matter that's remote viewing mhm so you don't realize it but something completely mundane to you like a video call is a version of this insane sounding thing it's just done through a device much like a camera lens sees things much like your eyes see things you're just doing it physically it's doing it through a device you're doing it yeah so when you biologically how put off say that he made money in the market that he he needed to raise money for a school so instead of doing a bake sale he did remote viewing in the market I noticed one eyebrow just went up Sean connory stop what do you think about that uh we did not have a comfortable interaction I was respectful but I I certainly communicated that for a guy who's trying to prove that this stuff is real yeah wouldn't you like to invite me to your private island if this stuff works rather than making exactly $26,000 or whatever the target amount was right why wouldn't you keep going with that right it's like he was like well I'm too busy it's like well I understand being too busy to make money because I've certainly exhibited that behavior but if making money is the best way of advertising that the stuff is
real why wouldn't you actually do it so that was a very uncomfortable interaction that I had with Hal that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't do it you know there could be this thought that and this is you know what what people would say about psychic ability as well there could be that thought that some people feel that abusing that power or using the power for personal gain would somehow or another diminish its effectiv I so much want to make money from geometric unity and I'm but not magic well but there's something about not in my father's house you don't want to be the money changer in the temple I'm happy to make money hand over fist and I'm Pro capitalism but like selling geometric Unity makes me feel sort of sick to my stomach and I think about it I mean I'm not so pure that I don't I see what you're saying but what I'm trying to say is you're trying to do something that's supposed to bring people together and you have a world in which we're losing all support for Blue Sky stuff so I think what in Hal's case I just felt sad that I I threw a bunch of Proto shade that people assembled into doubting I think how was sincere but I think what he was saying didn't make sense the remot viewing part of it yes and so I felt bad about like what if it's possible what if it's just not possible most of the time well for example let's imagine you he claims that they sent people to the Bottom of the Sea and submarines who were able to remote View and so the water is acting as a screen M where like light can't get to the bottom of the Mariana Trench for example but neutrinos can so if you imagine that there was some particle that could penetrate and be received we have telescopes for photons for gravitons which is ligo and for neutrinos which is like I don't know is that ice cube or polar bear so you could imagine that there's some field that can penetrate the oceans that could be received I can come up with a Sci-Fi story right so you would imagine that these neutrinos are containing information and that they're attached to everything all over the Earth I'm not saying that that's what remote but I'm saying if you wanted to say Eric a gun is to your head we we believe in remote
viewing tell me a fairy tale right I could come up with fairy tales okay and that could be one of them uhuh yeah do you think that it's possible that there are states of Consciousness that can be achieved through some form of meditation or some for of some some form of training the mind to get into a very specific Focus that would allow you to access information that is otherwise unavailable I don't I don't have any experience in that I haven't done it right so I would imagine it can't be done because I can't do it or I haven't done it but isn't it possible that there are states of mind that can be achieved through whether it's holotropic breathing or whether it's meditation there's states of mind that can that are measurably achievable that are very different from the current Consciousness two people are just talking is it possible that there's a way that some people have of occasionally tapping in to information that's unavailable to you or are right now so let's do a junior version and then get to your question Junior version is is there a way that we can like look inside your body without opening your body up to figure out whether you have pancreatic cancer MRIs ah so tomography in the radon transform the point is any sufficiently uh advanced mathematics or physics seems like deep black magic yeah indistinguishable from Magic exactly so it's an Arthur C Clark problem now if you ask me I'm very freaked out about this cattle mutilation because people I know swear by it they say this is Absolut you know come come see autopsies there's been some weird ones for sure okay they're fascinating but uh I mean if you're going to come all the way here to [ __ ] with our cows well no no the issue is they don't do it to people my point the stapes yeah but is weird yeah but the stapes again people think mammals are defined by like live birth and breasts and and no it's three bones in the year if I'm not mistaken and those three bones have to do with insectivore uh ancestors who probably needed their ears detached from their jaws so they could hear high pitched whining that's a theory we don't know if it's true whoa okay now those three little bones that mean so much um what they do is they
transmit sound through the tanic membrane to the organ of cordi so that the cyia in this rolled up uh sea shell in your ear vibrate at particular frequencies so when I'm talking to you and I say Joo that's absolutely ridiculous what we're what I'm doing is I'm stimulating different hair follicles in your organ of Cordy to vibrate at different times or if I go wise men say right that's tone three half frequencies above back to same tone those things are perceived as pitch I could imagine something caring about the idea of how do I communicate thoughts through the the tanic membrane using the stapes does it sound exotic yes does it sound like [ __ ] absolutely however it's not outside of the realm using this the doubly scientific method which is you imagine that there's Intelligence on the other end of this thing and it's going to use every trick in the book because it's smarter than we are to figure out how to communicate with us now have I gone out into the desert have I prayed have I tried to get these things to talk to me I have right I'm an atheist but these things have a religious effect on people they view them as Angels they view them as Transcendent beings they think that Ezekiel and the Book of Ezekiel is about this stuff it's like okay it's only my self-respect it's not you know I'm going to run an experiment because it's cheap why wouldn't I do that right why wouldn't I do that heartfelt every Friday Joe you should come for our to our family for Shabbat dinner we pray we may be atheists but not on Friday night Friday night we believe right and my claim is that there are plenty of opportunities using the doubly scientific method if something is much smarter than us and is able to communicate these things maybe it's said to Hal look we can't interfere with you because we have a prime directive but we can give you indirect hints you know I what do I know I don't know anything do I think it's likely no I think Hal is probably not correct right but is it impossible to communicate with somebody below the the bottom of the sea no it's not impossible even using neutrinos it's not impossible
does is there any mechanism that implements it none that I'm aware of do we listen for neutrino events 100% 1987a the Supernova I believe that the photons and the neutrinos were screaming at us and arrived almost at the same time because the neutrinos we now know have a tiny Mass so they wouldn't be traveling at quite the speed of light um now the point is let's imagine that we had Neil degrass Tyson on he's not having any of this [ __ ] he's he's locked into because he's not really a physicist and in at a practicing level he has to worry about his respectability he is 100% one of the most brilliant people at scientific Exposition I've ever seen in my life but he can't think he's not ready to do great science because great science has an element of irresponsibility to it and what we don't understand I think about it is is that when we decide that everybody has to do good science it's like you doom yourself many of the greatest scientists of all time were borderline quacks the belief for example that Watson and Crick had that DNA had to be a helix I mean Jim Watson's somebody I know and I I dealt with four days straight the reason he beat Rosalyn Franklin is that she couldn't spend one not being a good scientist she was a good scientist and he admitted he was not okay but he was convinced it had to be a helix and from her perspective it's like oh you want to be lonus Pauling who figured out the alpha Helix and protein so you're going to take Linus's work and you're going to superimpose it on DNA and explain my malt cross and it's not about male versus female absolutely Jim Watson claims that if rosn Franklin had spent one afternoon thinking it was a helix she would have gotten it before he did that's an extremely generous kind feministic belief she was a good scientist he admits he was not a good scientist but he was a great scientist and that's the big difference great scientists engage in quackery Carrie mullus taking LSD or getting stoned out of his mind coming up with the preliminar chain reaction is an example of great
science right Richard firan claiming that a particle takes every possible path it can simultaneously does not make sense but it's great science it's not good science so it's almost like guitar playing say more you can be very technically proficient or you can figure out a way to do something someone hasn't done before and do it in a way where you're you're you're create you're you're using creativity and science together okay does this make sense if you look at for example Jeff Beck's version of drown in my own tears with Jules holl that is one of the greatest vocal performances I've ever heard I cry I pulled over to the side of the road and wept when I heard that thing cuz he died and I was just like yeah whatever Jeff Beck died I know he's supposed to be the greatest m you know blah blah blah it's like have no time for for I got to drive him once what when I was a limo driver hold up yeah wait break from UFOs je you have to tell me you're Jeff Beck though I was supposed to drive Stevie Ray vongh but Stevie Ray vongh refused to take a limo Stevie Ray vongh would always take cabs isn't that wild and I was a giant Steve Rayvon fan cuz uh my boxing coach was a huge fan and he was he would always play that song oh God there's a bunch of them but is it Ireland is that this he has this one song never heard of this oh my God this guy this this guy used to hit the bag and play this one song by stev rvon and I can't remember what [ __ ] song it was but I became fascinated with Steve rvon because of my friend and uh as I was driving limos I had an opportunity to I was like oh my God I going to pick up Stevie rayon this is insane but as he was with Jeff P I'm like yeah that's pretty cool so I drove Jeff back but it was to me like I was an idiot know yeah I uh I also got a chance to uh pick up Annie lenck security guy was this fascinating dude I really love talking to he was a lot of fun and so I got to see I was like as close to you are as to Annie Lennox and uh this was when the arthic were huge and she was in this restaurant and I swear to god dude her voice was like a like a cable wire when she would talk yeah it would it would almost like she had a nuclear voice like even just her talking you
would you would like knowing how beautiful her voice was when she sang you real like oh my God she's like an athlete like she's like an athlete talking just the way her voice was carrying in this conversation I was like this is amazing her voice is incredible and I was realiz like oh well this like a trained skill like a ballerina where their vocal cords I believe before it was trained it was just I have the same feeling about Eva Cassidy and Annie Lennox it's just that these people are not part of reality well is a gymnast a part of reality I mean they develop that ability I mean I think that's what it is I think we're seeing the final product we're not understanding that there's this long journey and some people have more physical gifts than others others do but that's with gymnasts as well I okay you ever heard Eva Cassidy gets sick and sing stormy Monday and something about the sickness causes her voice to do something no voice has ever done oh no oh dude this is like heroin um wow Jeff Beck is more vocal than these people this version of drown in my own tears which is a cover Ray Charles did a cover version of it and he figured out what the song was supposed okay yeah hit me with it [Music] oh [Music] what a bad [ __ ] what a bad [ __ ] by the way I just want to say something uh that you're not going to want me to say but [ __ ] you uh I was hanging out with his bass player to Wilkenfeld and she got covid and I heard that you sent a nurse with an IV with all of this sort of stuff to get tall Wilkenfeld this unbelievable bass player that just she's my friend yeah but she's like an she's like a Next Level human being she is I love her she's great I know but like you know you take a lot of [ __ ] from stupid [ __ ] that you do what a big heart you have and nobody even knows what you do for people around you and I just want to say thank you okay that was a unauthorized thing I want get back thank you okay the Jeff Beck thing oh my God right like she's 12 years old and let some of this on stage here this is Costa Rica wow I like how they have the little Indian
rugs on stage that's pretty dope says Incubus with Mike einiger and Brandon Boyd and that was Costa Rica where they were getting blown away and that she couldn't even see properly because her hair was getting blown into her eyes I met her at the store she's friends at Tony hinchi that's how I became friends with her yes like she doesn't want to hang out with music people she wants to hang out with scientists and and uh comedians she loves hanging out with Comics she hangs out with us all the time she's cool as [ __ ] she can hang she's really cool to talk to but Incubus is also is also like they're really into science they're the most down toe rock stars Jeff Beck that's awesome so you know in terms of um vocal performance I did not understand what this guy was able to do multi-dimensionally with that whammy bar and using the slide as a pleum this guy was developing techniques not to not to flash you not to Ying way Mom Ste play a million month notes a second but it was just like I'm going to spend my entire life not becoming a rock star but becoming the ultimate technician because of the things I feel in my soul that I want to share with you people and I didn't get this the only way I found tall is that I thought like okay I was always thinking I'd get around to Jeff backck and then he died I was like okay whatever I'm too busy and I started feeling shitty about it I thought what happened to his basis and I found out she followed me and I was completely unprepared for like these people who are channeling the universe directly through music yes right yeah that's what it is right that's what it is when when someone like a Gary Clark Jr plays guitar there's like introduced me to at the store when I never met him you know it's just like he's a [ __ ] man well music science and humor are my three things that I use to measure human intelligence you can't use an IQ test to get up in the stratosphere these are the three things that actually discriminate humor music and science the like in general I can assure you that when you order a sandwich at Subway if you do so you don't do it in any particularly special way but let me just say this I saw you work up this thing
about uh professional wrestling is gay over many nights because you kept inviting me to the store and you know I like this whole controversy about you and Jews and money it really hurt me because I've never seen anybody's non bigoted as you and I've hung out with you drunk and this stuff would come out and it's just like such [ __ ] but I did have this like Envy which is I want to be the gays and get you to work up actually what's going on with Jews and money and take the William Tell shot where you get past this sort of dim store stupid [ __ ] and actually like basically to the thing about Jews and money is the Jews that had money survived and the Jews that didn't have money died in the camps and every diaspora Community whether it's the overseas Chinese or you have the parses in India or you have the gtis in the east of Africa the issue isn't money Joe it's liquidity all of us diaspora communities have to have liquidity or when things turn bad we get screwed right and there is some routine what I found about you and and the gays and professional wrestling thing you just for people who don't know uh I was sitting there at the comedy store and Joe says I was watching Prof professional wrestling and it is so gay that is definitely not how I set it up wait a second at all and the audience freaks out like that's definitely not how it was set up and then you turned around and looked at us and you said wait a minute I didn't say it was bad you did that yeah right and it was like this wait wait wait what he just turned all the negative energy in the room on us for our latent homophobia and then it was like we all had it and we realized we had it and then if I was sitting next to a gay guy and I started the evening homophobic I guarantee you by the end of that act act which you figured out over multiple times that I saw we were sitting there ready to hug each other and I want you to do the same thing for us Jews I want you no I want you to figure out your [ __ ] money and Jewish thing and do for us what you did for the gays because that was a transformative experience when I saw Chappelle take that shot on behalf of Kanye I I have to take a Kanye detour
okay people do not understand what happened with Kanye and I want to talk about this from a Jewish perspective Kanye in what 2018 for some reason C Candace Owens of all people was like my fan and she called me up she said I'm meeting with Kanye which is my dream I want you to be there like what all right I show up Kanye is the most kind creative mentally ill wonderful generous person you could imagine that's a great way to put it okay Kanye is like can you come over tomorrow can you come out to Calabasas we're like hanging out me and Kanye as if this makes any effing sense by the way he's got an NDA that is the most ghetto lawyer thing I've ever seen like if you say anything about this meeting we'll take your child we'll take your left testicle you will have nothing I like I am not signing this well you're not meting Kanye it's like fine it's only Calabasas I'll take an Uber home F you like they call up Kanye like don't let him don't make him sign just come through so I come through that's so funny and I'm like hanging out with Kanye like geek and the Rap God and like he's got this videographer who's like filming everything and I'm like I cannot deal with this person send him away so he sends him away and Kanye and I have this heart to heart and let me tell you something this is uncomfortable to say I cannot imag imagine a Kinder more creative more gentle more loving more inclusive person he invites me on the spot to a listening party for his new tracks and I say I have to get home to p and the kids he's like well you you don't understand it's Kanye's album I'm dropping it he's like I don't care it's my wife and my kids I got to get home so he's like okay come to Wyoming so he's inviting me to Wyoming with him I'm like dude I'm a math person cut it out he's like well you have to come to Wyoming all right we start talking about the concept of slavery in Jewish and black Tradition now part of the reason that Jews and blacks have very high tension is because we have very similar experiences we both have a a really deep relationship to slavery in our case it's Passover in their case you know it's the history we all know and I say to Kanye there are three levels of slavery in in Jewish thought
there's chatt slavery where we're actually enslaved then there's cultural slavery where we're a diaspora community in other people's lands and then there's self slavery where we can't get past ourselves and Kanye we're grooving all this stuff having this heart to height we're walking around Calabasas and people are yelling out of car windows like you know Kanye we love you and like every time they do it I remember that there's a [ __ ] alert the Crips have have issued an alert from Long Beach that if Kanye Strays out of Calabasas he's to be taken out what yeah when was this I don't know look up [ __ ] Alert in Kanye 2018 okay so Kanye's like oh okay there three levels we we're vibing blah blah blah and I get this call from Kanye the next day cuz I'm not crippler for Kane Wars like I'm just thinking I'm G to be killed in a driveby shooting because I can't get home to my wife because I'm hanging out with Kane nothing makes sense in the world wow okay Jesus Christ now I get this call from Kan he's like oh Eric I can't tell you how amazing this all is I was just at TMZ and um I was explaining the theory about slavery and how this whole thing works and Jews and Passover I was explaining how much I love Hitler like what did you say I was explaining how much I love Hitler it's like huh I missed a meeting a memo something and I realize okay Kanye is focused on this spiritual Sunday thing and I realize what this is it's Jesus Jesus loves everybody no matter how horrible you are Jesus loves you okay and Kanye is thinking what would Jesus do and I'm realizing like I'm thinking at top speed like he's talking to about Hitler at TMZ whatever I said Kanye I want you to listen to me he's like yeah I said I want you to run to TMZ they don't want to destroy you I guarantee it because you're a long-term property that matters and there's no reason that they would want to destroy you and I want you to beg them not to release what you said don't don't question me just do it so he runs to TMZ and they don't release this thing and I guarantee you that they have the videotape so when you hear that the Jews and I love Dave Chappelle but this thing he did on Saturday night life was not right
okay yes Jews are so [ __ ] traumatized that we are super sensitive to anything that makes it possible for people to tell J can I stop you for a second then sure he has to do that that's his job his job is to make fun of something that's in the Ze I hear you that is in the Ze I know you're going to say this the fact that Kanye West is being accused of this anti-Semitism and Dave Chappelle is hosting Saturday live yeah he's got this fake letter and he goes and that Kanye West is how you buy some time that [ __ ] was [ __ ] hilarious there's nothing not right about that that was [ __ ] hilarious sorry sorry Joe I'm G to go toe-to-toe with you on this one you don't think that was funny oh Not only was it funny Dave Chappelle is a [ __ ] William Tell level artist he took his bow at an incredible distance and hit an apple off of somebody's head so what is wrong with that ah the issue is that it opens up this issue for people who are not at Dave Chappelle's level okay so you made a joke about pizzas Italians so you have to cater your joke to the dumbest people that are listening no no no no no no no no that your problem Joe to be honest with you is that you and Dave Chappelle are held by such high in such high regard by me and I I completely defended you 100% this man has nothing to do with anti-Semitism 100% well thank you okay you no you don't need me appreciate you there's nothing love you too I love you here's to some [ __ ] love you too no you don't need to defend me because there's no there's not a trace of it in you so him wa wait wait I'll do it okay please okay I view you guys as the marksmen you're the surgeons you're the [ __ ] neurosurgeons who can get between two neurons and cut the bad one and leave the good one that is to me I know that you guys think it's about mockery it's about having fun blah blah blah I've been through the comedy Mill there is an aspect to Carlin's comedy for example or um Richard prior or Lenny brucees that is timeless and Immortal because it comedy is so much more than getting a belly laugh it's at a different level I expect you guys to work to keep I want you to keep workshopping that thing till it Finds Its actual highest
level I'll tell you the the joke about pizza's money and Jews right I used to go to the Harvard school in Los Angeles which was the top most exclusive uh Episcopalian School in LA and I was sandwiched between these two beautiful uh muscular Aryan men and they would make the following joke hey Eric what's the difference between pizzas and Jews a pizza doesn't scream when you put it in an oven right a terrible joke that's a terrible joke and I lived it every [ __ ] day okay what is welling up right now on Twitter with Elon purchasing this is a huge amount of anti-Semitism and what we need as a country as you and I both know and we've both been in the same fight is we need a massive coming together we need to laugh together we need to break bread together we need to marry each other and have babies so that we're effectively indistinguishable from each other eventually we need love and partially what the function of humor is is to facilitate that this is how John Stewart reported the news hey I'm the fake news but he was actually reporting what the real news right okay okay it is my reverence for Dave Chappelle which says that he fell he fell short of his Mark he took the shot and he hit the apple he didn't hit the kid but he made it look like everybody could do that and now we've got an enormous number of anti-semites who are F focused on this thing right I was on your show years ago we asked this question about Jews in physics and I made a joke of it you said like why are there so many Jews in physics and I say well I guess we're lucky at physics I'm done with that too we have taken this language about under representation into our into our souls through this diversity Equity inclusion and if you ask about underrepresentation you have to ask about over representation and you know who's over represented Jews and now we're calling it The Jewish question why are there so many [ __ ] Jews Jews Jews Jews Jews because we're [ __ ] great at physics and we're great at comedy and I'll tell you something you want to get rich I know that you're rich and you're a comic but in general is comedy a good way to get make money no it's a terrible way to make money and how many people are there in it like Jews everywhere we've got Jews were poor Jews were Rich this and
that Jews are basically humans turned up to 11 we're on all extremes we're more criminal than other people we're less criminal than other people we are in such danger at the moment because everything is breaking down and when you can't figure out what's causing you a problem people are always going to blame blame diaspora communities they're going to blame overseas Chinese they're going to blame gujaratis they're going to blame parses they're going to blame Jews and we are vulnerable right now and the the issue wasn't that Chappelle was great do we have anyone better than Chappelle he's a genius straight up Gangster genius amazing what we're looking for is routines that elevate us beyond what Dave Chappelle turned in I'm not claiming that Chappelle didn't make a hilarious routine I'm claiming something different I'm claiming that right now we need to heal we need you don't think that humor helps us heal you don't think that that was funny and that that first of all no one laughing at that is laughing because they're anti-semitic right it just cuz it's a brilliant thing it's funny he's he's poking at the bear in the room yeah that Kanye West [ __ ] up and he's like remember remember Owen Ben remember Owen Benjamin sure okay I think Owen Benjamin is brilliant he did so many great routines really insightful incredibly clever made me laugh and he went down a bad path at some point and I'm sad about it because I think he's a genius I think the best of Owen Benjamin is fantastic well do you think causes people to go down bad paths because they don't know what's controlling them they don't know what's going wrong I'll tell you the Jewish strategy straight up is we over contribute we over succeed we over contribute you want to know who built America as a superpower it's Edward Teller it's stanislov ulam it's Robert Oppenheimer when you allow Jews into your country we pay more taxes we do more philanthropy we make tons of [ __ ] money we do some criminal [ __ ] that's stupid we've exploited people which is unfair it's a complicated equation but that's our equation for survival on balance we over contribute over succeed and we love you you know we want to be strong we're
loyal and right now people are scared that there's something that is denaturing our entire Society Joe right we're not ourselves we're not strong we're not confident we can't be masculine we can't have children who we we we we're tiptoeing around trans and the suspicion for who is keeping us from having a normal interaction is always going to be Jews you want to know why I'm all yeah you want to know why I'm all over the Epstein think because maybe it is Israel and if it is Israel it's not Israel it's like a tiny Department inside of the mad and maybe it's our own intelligence services but I'll be goddamned if it isn't a Jew who isn't going to be pushing this now I've been invited to South America for example by a very prominent dual National between the United States and Israel it's like why don't you come down to my Ranch Eric where we uh we have fun with the uh with cindera luminoso like The Shining path it's like what does that mean I'm being intimidated Joe I'm being threatened because obviously Jeffrey Epstein looks a lot like Ellie Cohen the super spy of Israel who held orgies in his Damascus apartment right now I don't know Jeffrey Epstein may be a us intelligence product it may be a joint product it may be an Israeli I don't know but I can tell you this it's not the Jews who are behind Jeffrey Epstein and I will be goddamned if I won't be pushing that because I'm going to stand up for 12-year-old girls whoever they are this is an immoral human being I've been on this since the beginning it's not fair so we do do this thing where in some sense you have to understand how how traumatized we are as a people when I hear we aren't oppressed because we're we drive fancy cars it's like my first cousin once removed died on the train out of Kiev when the Germans invade froze to death my cousin is a mangala twin who forgave mangala which is what Kanye was trying to do he was trying to say I'm Jesus I can tell that Hitler deserved love and deserved admiration it's like well look up Eva cor right you have this tiny tiny Jewish person who my cousin who forgave mangala if there's anybody worse than Hitler it might be mangala right Kanye was in the wrong scene he
wasn't equal to the thing he was taking on it wasn't his to forgive Hitler and to celebrate Hitler he's not Jesus but I feel terrible about what happened to Kanye and I'll tell you one of the reasons I feel terrible about it because all of us were enjoying Kanye's mental illness his genius comes straight out of his mental illness and we loved him because he was so unfiltered so real so when I see Rihanna holding him up my feeling is no it's not for you to hold him up I tried to save Kanye I didn't even say anything about it right and Kanye I think turned on me stopped returning my phone calls because he felt manipulated but the fact of the matter was I wanted Kane to persist and I didn't want his comment about I love Hitler and TMZ to take him out because I thought he was a Force for good so yes there may be Jews that are exploiting him financially but they're also Jews who trying to save him as I believe Lex tried to do a million times yes and it's like hey we love each other we're ultimately we're all family and the thing that I want out of humor is I want our best comedians to be a level or two above where they already are so that was my complaint about about Dave Chappelle it wasn't that Dave Chappelle wasn't funny he's funny as hell it's like I thought beyond that you should have done a routine that brought us all 100% together and what you did was is that you did a routine because you tried to get it at this level and my opinion of Dave Chappelle is that he's way up here let me uh explain how a monologue Works um there's a big difference between a monologue and a standup set if Dave was going to do a standup set on that okay he would work that at multiple different clubs a night and he would do it over months yeah it would be something that he would experiment one way he would add things to it he would he would subtract the [ __ ] that he didn't like anymore it takes time it takes time well that's what you invited me to see yes right well you've seen it so you you understand how it goes you showed it to me yeah but you saw it in actual practice 100% And I I got to tell you how much more I value watching you as an intellect which you often run away from oh just a comedian I watched you
look at the crowd as feedback and change your act and change your act and change your act until it's just sang well thank you but you're try while you're doing that you're just you're trying to find the Beats it's a rare art form where you're practicing it in front of people and the difference between a monologue which Dave has to prepare for in a very short amount of time versus a set like if you want him to have a very complex and nuanced take on a subject it's going to take time it'll take a little time to figure out and I mean I can only speak for myself but my process is months like I have some bits and then they they start off great and then they die and then they come back and then they [ __ ] get get better and some bits they I have to abandon them they're just they're not working they're not growing whatever it is and you don't know until you try it in front of an audience and I tried a bunch of different ways and sometimes I try I'm like oh my god what the [ __ ] have I got myself into and I have to pull myself out of the Bush but it's because there's this experimental aspect to doing live standup in front of these crowds and after a while been listening to us talk on podcast a lot of uh fans now know most people don't though most people have no idea what's going on which is good because you just want them to have fun so but there's a thing going on where you're trying to sculpt it if he wanted to take that subject and Advance it to like this Dave Chappelle you know Coral belt and Jiu-Jitsu level cuz that's what he is like he would figure out a way to do it and he would have it in a way that wouldn't be objectionable to you and I don't I don't I didn't find it objectionable I thought it was a hilarious take on something that was current it was in the news it was a thing he was just mocking the fact that Kanye was being attacked he was not diminishing it in any way he was making light out of there was a Target he hit it it that's how it is like that's I appreciate what you're saying and my response to this and this what I say to my fellow Jews I say look I don't want more I don't want less Joe Rogan or less Dave Chappelle I trust these people I want more I want to go to the uncomfortable place so that we can all
actually open it up just like if you were doing MD MDMA assisted therapy right yeah the idea is if you don't actually touch the thing that's uncomfortable which is like why are you so [ __ ] successful why don't they have so much why are they in control of this it's like I want to go through that and I trust you guys both of you uh and there probably a few other people that I trust to do it but it's not many and the point being which is that when other people were like quick to say you know this is anti-Semitic this is uncomfortable this is this I had a different response which is and and I think you're teaching me it's not the monologue that you want you want the routine that is workshopped and perfected yeah the the routine takes a long time maybe I didn't have that but I would say the following I believe that ultimately and I don't want to make it the job of the community but ultimately that is what it is is teach us how to live with each other and love each other when we have these deep suspicions of each other right because we do have these deep suspicions and right now everything that our government is doing which is holding back more and more and more information makes us suspicious who's really behind this what's really going on right and that's this is rep recipe for another Holocaust because if you're asking well who's really behind this I guarantee you one of the answers is always it's those guys we are counting on you and I just want you to know that and how much love we have and it's why it's a it's not an obligation to stand up for you when you come under Fire like the whole n-word thing it's like I posted one picture with my armor around you like any questions you know you guys are essential it's not it's not just that it's it's fun to go out have because it is fun but the point is John Stewart was doing a real job reporting the news when nobody could report the news and in a large large measure comedy or MDMA something like that is necessary for us to examine our [ __ ] and it's not a task for you because if I say that to you you're like dude you're you're loading too much on to it I I know how comedians think no it's not that it's that you really only want to take on subjects that you find fascinating in that moment like
when you write out ideas it it it has to be genuine it has to be a thing where you're trying to work something assignment yeah I don't understand a lot of anti-Semitism and I don't understand a lot of racism I don't understand it it doesn't make sense to me it seems natural it's also there's too many fascinating idee people whaty or what color that to me seems so ridiculous and so stupid that I don't entertain it it doesn't it's not a thing that bounces around my head so to even to Workshop it and defend it to me it's like oh my God there's so many more interesting things about people what's interesting to me about people is the individual human beings take and the accumulation of all of our takes together where we try to work through this thing what is this thing that we're experiencing together what is this what is culture what is the Learned history of all the human beings that have ever lived before us like what is the purpose of our existence here what is the the the the actual size of the cosmos that we're existing in like all these different things this finite nature of our existence what is good about community and love and friendship what is good about all those things all those things are interesting to me but when it gets to like sexual orientation or color it's like who cares I Don't Care Hum there's no I don't I didn't want to defend on any particular thing my point was I've never seen any bigotry at all because of this radical love sorry for saying it but like I know that you love all walks of life and and you don't need anyone to say that so I was almost embarrassed to say it but like to me um we're in an emergency situation whether you can feel it or not like if you look at there's a guy named uh what is it oh he's figured out leather apron club which is both the name for the junto that Benjamin Franklin established which is something that we Revere and leather apron was the name for Jack the Ripper so it's very clever mtin Bailey right but he like he tracks like how many Jewish people does Joe Rogan have on his program you know and it's incredibly important that all of us who are in a position to do this who don't have to necessarily worry about like our next
paycheck at a company help everyone come together because right now our government isn't helping us come together we're all sort of vaguely suspicious of each other and nobody wants the assignment in my opinion of like doing work it's also a very dumb distraction to be distracted by our differences is so foolish it's just so unnecessary like our our differences are what empowers us because if it wasn't for all the different cultures that exist in the United States it's one of the reasons why it's so fascinating here is because this is a country of immigrants you know with me it's my grandparents and you know with other people their direct descendants or or or or they've come over here from somewhere else everyone here is from somewhere else and we're all interacting with each other and look at what's been created here look at the amount and we've succeeded for the most part after a tremendous number of missteps yes right and so partially what you and I are both animated by which is like look we're not even done with the work but look how far we've come and look what a shining example this is to everyone else and this is like I wish I could communicate Joe how much fear I have right now as a Jewish person on Twitter with The Well of hatred that I I feel coming up which has been suppressed and you want to know what I want I want the anti-semites to speak up I want to hear them I want them to have free speech you have two choices in a society like this you can either try to control what people think and what they say or you can have a cultural penalty for saying something that is horrible and I want us to have free speech with a cultural penalty for these things as opposed to having to regulate what you can and cannot say and this issue like I don't know is it Daryl Davies you know like these incredibly Comm commendable courageous people who weighed right into the belly of the Beast and bring love you know this was the thing that I wanted for Kanye he was trying to say something else I don't want him destroyed I don't want him to continue to destroy himself where he's hanging out with Milo and Nick Fuentes and all this nonsense he was trying to say Jesus told us to love each other right and he
was [ __ ] up the message right and the issue is I don't want a Jewish black Rift in the middle of America well you don't want any Rifts right not just Jewish but any Rifts at all and if we take it to your your the thing that you were talking about sure in the beginning with the fear of what's going on right now with Russia and Ukraine in the absence of this idea that we supposed to be opposed to other people right that people that we don't even [ __ ] know like why would there be any conflict at all between Russia and Ukraine why would there be any conf at all between us and them they almost the same thing what is going on someone is controlling people there's a game that we don't understand and you know this you're part of it whether you like it or not that's what's [ __ ] run by psychos and I can tell you I have so much Ukrainian trauma because my family ran away from like pgms right do I support Ukraine 100% because they were invaded by Russia hello do I support this at the level that I want World War III to happen no no one should want that no one should want that and so you're trying to have this complicated thing which is like look there's serious [ __ ] in our past but you're being hurt by a power but we partially antagonize the power I'm trying to pull there's a lot of money involved oh my God and not only a lot of money involved in this and this is the thing the thing which I didn't understand with Sam it's like he says there's nothing you can tell me about Hunter Biden it's like barisma there is money that flows through Ukraine because it is a place where there are chemical labs and biological labs and there's bakish and payment and all this kind of stuff and my feeling is we're not allowed to know we're not allowed to pull it apart we're just supposed to say you know it's on the other side of the ideological fence you're not even allowed to examine it right and my feeling is look this is my children I'm on this planet you're going to potentially create a nuclear Holocaust over something where you're getting paid in a way that I'm not and if we don't fundamentally figure out how to love each other and to coexist and to celebrate each other and this is another thing about like I'll tell you a Jewish
thing we have this one story We repeat every year in the Passover story which is our name for Egypt is mitzraim and mitzraim means the narrow places and it's literally like the birth canal it's the second birth of the Jewish people and right now all of Earth is mitzan this is the womb and you say like you know somebody not you but like somebody says well the Jews consider themselves the chosen people do you know why we're chosen we view ourselves as chosen not because like we're the best that because we're responsible we believe that we are responsible for this planet and we unleashed we Jews Edward Teller and stanislav Ulan both Jews unle the power of the sun on the planet which is dooming us to a very bad end and I believe that we are chosen in the sense that it is our responsibility not our privilege not our this not our that not that we're on top but it's our responsibility to Shepherd the birth of the human race into an Interstellar species and like does that sound far-reaching does that sound crazy 100% to my ears that sounds nuts but ultimately in my opinion we feel responsible not for ourselves not to save ourselves but for the entire planet and I hope that other cultures feel the same responsibility that they feel chosen in the same way but right now if you want to ask me I forgo all sorts of financial opportunity because I feel like we unleashed holy hell on Earth that maybe a civilization ending thing and what are we going to do about it if we are open we we have to realize that what we unleashed to take care of Hitler and Nazism and the and the the barbarity of of Japan like the rape of Nan King we now have to deal with for all time and this is like really important to us we need to Shepherd civilization to safety and if you think about the Passover story it's a tremendous question why repeat this one story that seems bizarre like you're enslaved in Egypt you follow some crazy leader you go through the Red Sea you wander around the desert for 40 years and you find the promised land this is the story of where we are exactly at this minute it's not like an old-fashioned stupid fairy tale it's like you've been telling the story every
year for a reason because the people who waited for the bread to rise that's why we we eat unleavened bread died and the people who understood early okay this sounds completely crazy but you're going to have to make a break for it through the Red Sea wander around ground in pain before you actually get to safety that is the story of right now and this to bring it back to the UFOs my feeling about this is I'm largely on this program right now not to promote a book I don't have a patreon yet maybe one day who knows there's nothing I'm promoting other than the fact that right now we are in so much Mortal danger as a human species think about everything that you love whether it's drown in my own tears or box be minder or the works of Shakespeare right gone forever and back to the Stone Age I refuse and and this is what I've i' I've had such a hard time it's like well Eric you're so arrogant you're so you're insane you're crazy it's like no I know what time it is and I love you and I love all you people we're getting out of here and we're going to do it and we're not going to embrace any of this kind of stupid division it's now time it's like this is shackleton's story Shackleton stepped up when any normal human being would say look take whatever resources you have and have a good time because you're done it's like no you know we're down it's the ninth inning this is a bad situation this is the time that Legends are made and we're sitting around worried about like can I get the Tesla with Goldwing doors it's like [ __ ] that [ __ ] now is the time for Legends and whether you know that that this is the time or not we have to to come together and that's one of the reasons that like that I I I wanted you to understand how much I appreciated what you've done for underprivileged groups people who are hurting people don't really understand how big your heart is because you hide it and that's one of the things I wanted for the Jewish people and I wanted from you which is like more Chappelle more Joe Rogan more humor more love let's get through this thing let's let's stop blaming each other know let's stop blaming each other and let's go P again wrap this up we're at like 4 hours dude we've been rambling you've been rambling you've been uh saying some brilliant things though and I appreciate
you very much and I appreciate you coming on here always and uh I don't think we got any closer to understanding what the [ __ ] UFOs are but I understand more of it thank you my friend I'm in appreciate you very much appreciate goodbye everybody [Applause] [Music]