Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNPM0yUiyNs
Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day thanks for doing this we really appreciate it my pleasure anytime it's very nice to meet you in person we actually did a radio show together once remotely a long time ago I was on the op and Anthony show and you called in that's right I was there live yeah that was a blast yeah it was very fun to talk when a person like yourself you're in this documentary a tear in the sky and uh for a personally yourself who is a very well-respected scientist to be discussing the subject of UFOs to me it signifies that there's been a shift in the way our culture perceives these things that's right uh it used to be the third rail of a scientific establishment that if you talk about UFOs you were pretty much relegated to being in that case and the giggle Factor kicks in right yeah but things have changed then you know uh because of the fact that the military is now uh basically releasing hours of videotapes of things that defy the normal laws of physics and the military has admitted that quote they're not ours before there was always that ambiguity that maybe it's a new stealth bomber or a new Fantastic device being prepared by the military nope the mil military now admits that they're not ours then the question is who are they then yeah the 2017 New York Times article uh in my mind made that was a big shift because when the New York Times is reporting about it and saying that this is Major news and this is real and there's video evidence that they can't ignore when you talk to high level people at the government and people like Commander David fraver who had that infamous uh spotting off of the coast of San Diego when you hear about people like that that are very reputable it starts to change the conversation in a lot of people's eyes right see it used to be that one person would see something in the sky and say look Martha look there's something up there now things have changed now we have multiple sightings by multiple modes that is the goal standard the goal standard for looking for these objects not just one person but several people that are reputable not just radar but visual sighting infrared sensors telescopic
evidence now we have multiple sightings by multiple modes and so the burden of proof has shifted it used to be the burden of proof was on the people who believed in UFOs they saw something prove it now the burden of proof has shifted to the Pentagon to the military now they have to prove that these aren't extraterrestrial and so I think there's been a sea change a sea change in the last uh just several years you know 50 years ago there was a congressional hearing and it was coming out of project Bluebook and there was a lot of laughter and a lot of jokes about things Little Green Men in outter space 50 years ago that's the way it was now things have changed now people are looking at looking at are they a threat militarily what kinds of sensors do we have what kind of metrics do we have we now have frame by frame an analysis of these objects these objects travel between Mach 5 and mach 20 that's 20 times the speed of sound these objects can zigzag and we can measure the gForce inside the this object the G forces are several hundred times the force of gravity in other words any living person's bones would be crushed by these objects so they're probably drones of some sort these objects can drop 70,000 F feet in a few seconds think about that it can drop a tremendous distance in just a few seconds and they can go underwater this is something that we didn't realize before but yes they can actually go underwater and they also move without creating an exhaust or breaking the sound barrier so these are things that we can now document frame by frame looking at these videotapes so for yourself what was the shift and how how did you feel about UFO say like 10 15 years ago well there is this giggle factor and it's the third rail of course of your scientific reputation if you believe in these things but the evidence is accumulating over the last several years now when I was first approached by Carolyn Corey the producer of this film a tear in the sky I was skeptical I said to myself come on I mean five days five days you're going to look for saucers in the sky what happens if the aliens are camera shy and they don't show up in 5 days so I was pleasantly surprised when they actually found something they actually have photographic evidence of
objects that can gate just the way the Pentagon has said and so we now have a sea change a a center of gravity has changed with regards to looking at these objects we no longer simply look at one individual seeing something in the sky no we dem and hours of videotape multiple sightings by multiple modes that's the gold standard now so what do you think is happening do you think that this is something that maybe another government from another country has created that far surpasses our abilities or do you think that this is coming from somewhere else well the Pentagon has listed I think five different options uh one option of course is that there weather balloons or something that's an artifact of our space program maybe uh a piece of Rocket uh that is is plunging back into the Earth's atmosphere uh that's one category another category is anomalous uh weather events uh they happen and they have to be looked at very carefully but the last option the last option is other that is not just the Russians or the Chinese because these objects apparently can gyate faster than what the Chinese and the Russians can can muster but it opened the door to the possibility of other they didn't specify what other was but you can fill in the dots yourself now one possibility for other is Hypersonic drones we see that in Warfare now the Russians in the Battle of Ukraine is actually using Hypersonic drones to hit targets inside Ukraine uh to be Hypersonic you have to go faster than mach five anything faster than five times the speed of sound is called Hypersonic and so the Russians are now Fielding Hypersonic drones in Warfare but you see this is something just in the last few months these sightings they go back decades into the past with objects executing these gations decades ago and that's why you have to take them seriously so the commander David fraver event that we talked about off the NIMS that was 2004 do we have an accurate understanding about military capability in terms of like drones and propulsion systems from 2004 or are there things that are classified that we are not going to have access to like is it possible that you know 18 years ago they had the capability to have a vehicle or a drone move this way that just that
information has just not been released well two years ago the United States military admitted that it stopped working on the Hypersonic drones why they're unstable they zigzag and that's why the Russians have put a premium on this technology to evade our Star Wars program the Russians wanted a rocket that can maneuver and therefore outwit a stationary Star Wars system designed to shoot down these drones right so that's why the Russians have put a priority on this and they've now Fielding in Warfare we actually see them as a military weapon two years ago the United States military stopped its program they're too unstable they they were not reliable and it was not worth the amount of money to put into it because the military was invested in the Star Wars program not the anti-star wars program but because Vladimir Putin announced the Hypersonic drones that the United States military said oops nope we have to get into the game too so now the United States is also working on Hypersonic drones as well as the Chinese so the Chinese the Russian and Americans are all working on these things but you can see how primitive they are we're talking about objects that defy the known laws of aerodynamics with a technology beyond what we have today and so that's why people are scratching their heads who are these things if they're not the Chinese the Russians or the United States so one of the main points of contention is the lack of visible propulsion method right there's no it essentially there's no heat signature there's nothing that we understand to be present that normally exists when something is going at a tremendous rate of speed that's right not only that these objects create no Sonic booms when you exceed the sound barrier uh you create a gigantic boom that is then shatters windows and can be heard miles around these objects can effortlessly uh break the sound barrier and not create a sonic boom and and they don't create any exhaust uh we don't see any exhaust trail from these objects so either they're an optical illusion of some sort or they have a set of laws of physics beyond what we what we can muster now if they are a optical illusion um if an object were to move in front of your eyes traveling at a very slow velocity but you don't know how far
they are away you may think that object is very far away from you traveling enormous velocities so a weather balloon drifting in front of your eyes can simulate an object traveling at Hypersonic velocities if you think that weather balloon is far away from you so how do you tell the difference well you look at wind patterns it turns out that many of these sightings these objects defy the direction of the wind if they are weather balloons that you confused with a flying saucer uh then they would be moving with the direction of the wind but these objects do not do that these objects can go against the direction of the wind not only that but we have multiple sidings if an object is very very far away I mean if an object is close to you but you think it's far away then it then it's traveling at an enormous velocity while it's actually just drifting in front of your eyes how do you tell the difference by having multiple sensors radar infrared sensors visual sighting then you can tell how far this object is away from you and then you can say that nope it's an optical illusion well we do that now we have multiple sightings of these objects by radar we know how the velocity the distance each time it comes out to be real and so that's why we're scratching our heads who has this capability and the answer is we don't know is there anything that's theoretical that you're aware of that could be applied like some from from some other planet or some other Galaxy or whatever that something that maybe we have theorized that could be responsible for the way these things are able to move well you know when I talk to my friends who were physicists like myself about these things they sort of like laugh giggle their eyes roll up to the heavens and they say something very simple that a rocket using conventional means would take 70,000 years to reach us from the nearest star therefore these objects cannot exist 70,000 years for a Saturn rocket traveling at 25,000 mph to go from a nearest star to the planet Earth that's why most scientists disregard these sightings because they defy the laws of of Einstein but isn't that kind of silly isn't that kind of like saying like you can't you know how long it would take
you to get a horse from Los Angeles to Sydney Australia isn't that kind of like saying that exactly and that's why I say that that is assumes that these aliens or whatever are maybe a hundred years more advanced than us but open your mind to the possibility that they are a thousand years more advanced than us a thousand years is nothing compared to the age of the universe the universe is about 13 uh uh 13 billion plus years old that's how the age of the universe and so the age of a civilization just a few thousand years ahead of us that is just a blink of an eye to the universe itself and once you go to higher energies the laws of physics begin to break down the laws of Einstein and the laws of the quantum theory break down at something called the plon energy why is that important that's what I do for a living I work on something called String Theory which lives at the plank energy the plank energy is 10 to the 19 billion electron volts that is a quadrillion times more powerful than our most powerful Atom Smasher outside Geneva Switzerland any civilization that could harness the plank energy would be able to become masters of space and time space and time as we know it become unstable at the plon energy which is far beyond anything that we can muster here on the planet Earth so we physicists theorize how advanced do you have to be to access the plon energy well we rank them the cev scale says that there could be type one type two or type three civilizations a type one civilization is maybe a 100 years more advanced than us to maybe a thousand years sort of like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon they control the weather volcanoes earthquakes anything planetary they control that's type one then there's type two type two is Stellar they harness the power of an entire star like like Star Trek Star Trek would be a typical type 2 civilization where they manipulate entire stars then there's type three type three is galactic they roam the galactic space Lanes they play with black holes like like uh the Empire of the Star Wars series would be a typical type 3 Civilization now the next question is what type do you have to be to harness the plunk energy the energy at which space and time become unstable where wormholes May develop gateways through space and time portals through
empty space you have to be type two or most likely type three then the next question is how long will it take before you become type three well we are maybe a hundred years away from being type 1 we're maybe a few thousand years from being from type two and we maybe a 100,000 years being from being type three and 100,000 years is nothing nothing on a galactic scale the age of the universe is as I said over 13 billion years old and so once a civilization reaches the plank energy that is a type three civilization space and time become your playground how do they make the estimates of how long it would take to develop such technology by looking at the gross uh national product of Nations we know that most Nations grow at the rate of maybe 2 or 3% per year in energy consumption given that number 2 to 3% per year we then calculate how much energy they would have in a 100 Years A th years now we are about a civilization about s Carl Sean did the calculation we're not point we're not a type 1 civilization yet we're type7 but that means that by the year 2100 at the turn of the century we'll probably be type one and you can see that everywhere you go what is the internet the internet is the beginning of a type one Communication System we're privileged to be alive to see the first type one technology fall into our era what about sports and culture uh the Olympics the beginning of a type one sport s uh soccer the beginning of a type one fashion with Gucci and Chanel the beginning of a type one language the number one and two languages on the internet are English and Chinese so we're seeing the beginning of a type one language so in other words the greatest transition in human history is maybe a 100 years from now when we become type one a planetary civilization harnessing planetary forces that is perhaps the greatest transition in modern history and we're about 100 years from becoming type one so the type one we would be able to control weather events and we'd be able to control planetary events that's right like you you believe that by type one we'll be able to prevent super volcano eruptions things along those lines that's right we'll have the power of an entire planet at at our disposal and we see the beginnings of
that today because that's been the biggest change in the last 100 years 100 years ago we existed as a fragmented civilization Nations battling each other for small turfs now we're beginning to see the emergence of planetary blocks a planetary economy beginning to develop and the internet as I said is the first type one uh telephone system to fall into this century when you think of technologies that could potentially change the pattern of progression meaning that you know we're on the sort of exped itial rate of increase in technology what about something along the lines of what Elon Musk is proposing with neurolink something that would change the way a human being's brain interfaces with information and with each other yeah I think that's coming uh first of all when you look at the history of Science and Technology um the first phase was the Industrial Revolution of 1800 uh when we physicists worked out the laws of steam engines and thermodynamics that was the first great transition in human society the Second Great transition was when we physicists worked out electricity and magnetism they give us the electric age with dynamos and generators and radio television the third great transition was the computer Revolution but we physicists worked out the quantum mechanics of transistors so all of a sudden we have lasers transistors and the internet now we're entering stage four stage four is physics at the molecular level meaning artificial intelligence nanotechnology and biotechnology you are now talking about the fifth wave the fifth force and that is physics at the atomic level meaning brain net brain net is when we harness the power of the brain connected to the internet also quantum computers when we start to use individual atoms to compute with not simply transistors but no Atomic transistors these are called quantum computers they're coming and third is fusion power we're going to have the power of the Sun in a bottle in the fourth stage of technology so Elon Musk I think is ahead of his time but it's going to take time to develop the the brain hooked up to the computer hooked up to the Internet so the future of the internet internet 2.0 is brainet when we mentally control
the internet you simply think and all your commands are your wishes are fulfilled we put a chip in the brain this has already been done the chip in the brain is then connected to a laptop the laptop deciphers the electrical impulses of the brain and then operates the internet operates a typewriter operates a wheelchair operates the lights so that the person who's totally paralyzed can now live a a reasonable approximation to a normal life we can easy actually connect a human to a exoskeleton and have them kick a football to initiate the soccer games in San Paulo Brazil wow two years ago in San Paulo Brazil made headlines when a paralyzed man was hooked up to an exoskeleton designed at Duke University and he kicked the football initiating the soccer game international soccer games in San Paulo Brazil so is that a vid is there a video of that available oh yeah Google it you can find that yeah you can simply Google it you can see him you see him uh walk up to the ball and and kick the kick the soccer ball and So eventually we're going to connect the human mind to the Internet so this means that emotions feelings Sensations can be sent on the internet not just digital signals and that means that entertainment is going to be totally revolutionized you know Charlie Chaplan used to be this great actor dominated the movies until the talkis came and when the talkis came nobody wanted to see Charlie Chaplain anymore you wanted to see actors talk that lasted for 50 years and once we have brainet then the actors of today could be put out of business because people will want to know what actor are feeling their emotional state their Sensations and that's then going to be the internet of the future internet 2.0 what is the bottleneck in terms of communication is it like if we do develop some sort of a method where human beings can Comm communicate through technology with our brains via neuralink or some similar technology with the bottleneck be language and if so would there be a way to create a universal language like we are we married to the the languages that we currently have because of our region because of you know you live in America you speak English or Spanish or whatever you speak but it's primarily English and
Spanish but you if you live in Chinese you speak the various dialects you you know obviously there's a lot of languages and that is an impediment to understanding each other do you think that it's possible that a universal language could be created and if so would it be created in a way that is very different than any language that's ever existed before well we're not there yet uh first of all the impulses of the brain are digital signals uh little blips on a computer screen and then a computer simply tries to interpret what these little blips are and then tries to construct for example an alphabet so that you can type you can type by think about it but that requires you to take the the signals from the brain and then have a computer decipher it through the English language into text you want something different you want a universal brain language uh we're not there yet what about a visual language like a hieroglyphics like something along those lines like where you could have a a universal visual language that everyone learns at a young age well we already at the University of California at Berkeley been able to put the human brain into an MRI machine which calculates blood flow at thousands of points inside the living brain once you know the blood flow at thousands of points on the human brain you feed that into a computer and the computer prints out a picture a picture of what you are thinking now I've seen these pictures they're they're not very clear but the very fact that we can extract a picture from a living brain is incredible yeah I've seen that it's pretty fascinating it's fascinating stuff and even when you go to sleep the machine keeps on going and will eventually print out your dream whoa now this has not been done I've seen pictures of the Dreams they're not very good yet but that's just a matter of time uh because of course the number of pixels that we have is about 20,000 pixels of the human brain in the future we'll have millions of pixels of the human brain to have a much finer resolution of your dream and of course after your dream uh just make sure that your wife or husband doesn't get access to the picture ha haa or get a better wife or husband if they're getting mad at you about dreams um do we have a video of the Sal Pao
yeah let's see this a lot so this is the guy can't see much happen either oh that's okay so it'll replay it yeah oh so it's very very it's quick simple yeah wow what a what a machine that's he's connected to and do you liken that to like ancient technology like Morse code as opposed to like what we could do now with cell phones eventually this is going to get far far better yeah remember this is the first time in history that someone with an exoskeleton has been able to on National Television execute something that we just take for granted yeah you know and that's today can you imagine what what's going to happen in the future well one of the things that Elon has said is that one of the first uses of this neuralink technology will be to help people that have damage spinal cords and help them regain full motion of their body right to bypass the spinal cord right yeah you know the human brain or we we can have a map of the human brain where the arm the leg the tongue are attached so this creates what is called the homunculus the homunculus is an image of a human body superimposed on on the on the surface of the brain so when you want to activate your leg you simply know what part of the brain is connected to the leg and you simply put a chip there and by thinking of through that chip you can then move your leg well obviously by putting many chips throughout the surface of the brain you can control the entire human body and stick that into an exoskeleton and become Iron Man and Iron Man can fly but of course we can put jetpacks with hydrogen peroxide fuel inside a jetpack and you can start to fly just like Iron Man now we're not there yet but I'm just saying that in principle it is possible do you I mean how old are you now uh 75 do you wonder how much you're going to see before your time on this Earth is done well you know digital immortality is something that's coming I was going to bring that up next uh for example William Shatner sat for what three four days uh answering questions and having it then recorded and then a computer homogenizes it cuts it up puts it in logical sequence so that you can talk to William Shatner years after he has passed away and so this gives you a form of digital immortality pretty crude though pretty
crude but then the question is what do you do with it right one is you can talk to your great great great great grandkids uh long after you're gone you can talk to them because all your thoughts your feelings your history your dreams have been recorded and you can impart your knowledge your wisdom to your great great great great great grandkids long after you're gone another application is then to take this digitized human put it on a laser beam and shoot it throughout the Universe at the speed of light I call this laser porting so you digitize the human so all the responses of the human are on a digital signal you put it on a laser beam and shoot it to the moon in 1 second your digital brain is on the moon in 20 minutes you're on Mars and in four years you're on Alpha centuri the nearest star and so what do you do when you're on the moon on the moon you download your digital information that codes who you are onto an avatar and the Avatar then can roam the moon and not have to suffer from weightlessness cosmic rays accidents loss of oxygen no you are an avatar controlling all the movements on the moon in other words you can explore the Galaxy this way at the speed of light the fastest known velocity in the universe your digital brain waves and information about your brain and thinking can be shot throughout the Universe now this is all well within the laws of physics and this is something that could easily be done within the next 50 to 100 years however I'll stick my neck out I think this already exists really I think that aliens in out of space don't use rocket ships they don't use that rocket ships because they they crash they have problems with gamma rays radiation food whatever they've digitized themselves plac placed their consciousness is on a laser beam and there's a laser Highway a laser Highway that could be right next to the Earth for all we know carrying The digitized Souls of civilizations and we're totally clueless we're so stupid we don't even know that that's how the aliens move from place to place what other options are there I mean isn't there an option of without with a lack of better words folding space time and generating enough power where you can move from one point to another Point
almost instantaneously yeah there are two ways to do that uh first of all in 1935 Einstein with his student Nathan Rosen wrote a paper about wormholes so a black hole is like a funnel take two funnels stick them back to back nose to nose uh that is a wormhole that connects one funnel Universe to another funnel universe so I have two universes connected by a Gateway uh which is called the Einstein rosenbridge otherwise known as a wormhole that's one way to do it the second way to do it was done by m Michael beer a friend of mine who was watching Star Trek one day and noticed how the Enterprise Zapped across space by Contracting the space in front of you and expanding the space behind you so that you do not go to the Stars the stars come to you so think of walking across a carpet you can walk across a carpet which is the long way or you can contract and compress the carpet in front of you expand the carpet behind you and then simply hop hop over to the other side of the carpet that is called The alab Beer drive now then the next question is what's the catch there's always a catch someplace right otherwise we'd be zapping across the the universe today and that is energy you would probably have to have energy comparable to that of a black hole in other words a type three civilization would have the power perhaps to utilize wormholes or compress space to go across Galactic distances this of course is science fiction but it's well within the known laws of physics that wormholes and alab or drives uh that are there are possible within the laws of physics what kind of an energy source could at least theoretically be used to generate that kind of power well in Star Trek of course they talk about the dilithium crystals yeah of course there's no such thing as dilithium crystals but there is something that can energize this machine and that's called negative energy now energy as we know is positive but there is a situation where energy can become negative and that's called the Casmir effect which is actually measurable you've actually measured in the laboratory the Casmir effect is negative energy and that's the fuel for a wormhole wormholes are stabilized by negative energy in fact it was Stephen
Hawking who actually created a theorem using Einstein's equations to show that all possible wormholes all of them are based on negative energy that's Hawkings theorem where he proved that mathematically which means that if you have enough negative energy then in principle you could could rock it to the stars and you could Rock to the Stars pretty quickly oh instantly instantly right so if we're talking about a civilization that is a 100,000 or a million years right yeah that's what we're possibly looking at that's right so when you have these uh encounters like they had with that Tic Tac shaped object that went from I believe it was 60,000 ft above sea level to 50 ft above sea level and you know yeah so when you're talking about that kind of speed possibly that's what you're looking at that's right uh we're talking about them reaching us through a method that is far beyond chemical Rockets chemical Rockets as I said take 70,000 years to reach us from the nearby Stars while if this is a huge hiff if you could harness the power of Einstein's wormholes or alab Beer's drive then you could do this almost instantly but you would need negative energy on a fantastic scale Stellar scale in other words you're basically type three so if you are a type three civilization then you do have access to the plank energy which is the energy of a black hole so we're doing a lot of looking at the potential for the future and we're looking a lot at you know what we think human beings are capable of doing thousands of years from now now what about are we are we looking at the potential different kinds of life forms like we're the only intelligent life form on Earth that manipulates its environment in the sense of like what humans do we build houses and planes and things along those lines we have other intelligent life like Orcas and whales but they don't have the same capabilities that we have is it possible that there's something that exists that evolved in a way far different than us that has access to intelligence beyond what we think is possible well there are three basic ingredients that made us become intelligent first is the opposable thumb or a claw or a tentacle a manipulation
device second is predator eyesight eyesight of a predator predators are smarter than prey Predators have to scheme they have to stock they have to have camouflage they have to deceive which is much more difficult than that of a prey which simply has to run so in other words some kind of stereo eyesight of some sort third language uh a baby learns uh you know several words a day uh By the time they're in high school they know several thousand words animals are lucky if you can get maybe 50 or or so words out of them so those are the three ingredients that made us intelligent and then you ask yourself a simple question how many other animals have all three an advanced language a posable thumb of some sort and stereo eyesight well we're the only game in town but that doesn't mean that in the universe there couldn't be other situations with different combinations which have these three ingredients communication manipulation of the environment okay and coordination of that um that's how we became intelligent and it could happen in uh other planets do you think that one of the impediments is what we were talking about earlier that the the languages are so different like in order for us to share knowledge with people in China we have to learn their language share knowledge with Germany we have to learn the Lang there's got to be some sort of uh communication what if a species developed where they didn't have a language barrier or perhaps they communicate in a method that we don't understand yet or that we're not capable of because we live in a completely different environment than them like maybe they communicate from the jump telepathically well they would have a definite uh Advantage if they could communicate telepathically because then they can share share knowledge almost instantly and that's not outside the realm of possibility right not outside the realm of possibility however it'd be very difficult because our brain has not developed a universal language that allows us to communicate with other brains now we do have what is called synthetic telepathy synthetic telepathy already exists but that's mediated by a laptop computer you take two people who are paraplegics or uh have problems with with their brain you can connect the two
brains together but the language that these two brains speak is still English so that's a problem you want a universal language yes but we do know that there's some species that communicate without language like bees you know I remember we were filming this television show on Fear Factor and one of the things we did was we had this stunt that these people had to get covered in bees so this beekeeper who was uh hired to cover these people in bees had to stop the production down because a neighboring beehive had come over to investigate and so these bees flew up into the air to visit with the neighboring bees and they communicated and I said well what do you have to do he goes we just have to let them work it out he goes they're going to figure it out it'll take a little while though so everybody should just move away so we all moved away and he watched his bees communicate with these other bees I go what are they doing he goes we don't really know we really really don't know we think they use fermon we think there's a but somehow or another they're going to relay that they are not moving in that they're just temporarily here and that will be enough for the neighbor bring bees to say well enjoy your time here and take care and that's what happened I mean obviously I'm simplifying it in the language but something happened where they've worked out that they these bees somehow or another knew that these other bees were not from there well when you look at ants uh in your own house for example or in the forest you notice that when two ants meet uh they they exchange chemicals yes invisible chemicals and they move on to the next ant and they bump into them and then they exchange chemicals right so we've tried to decipher that language and it turns out there's only a handful of chemicals that we've identified that are exchanged between ants and then at MIT they've tried to construct artificial ants robot ants so when two robot ants meet they exchange a limited vocabulary just like what ants do in real life a limited vocabulary and then the next question is with these mechanical ants can you Recon con struct ant Society all of ant Society given a primitive language that exists between two ants and the verdict is still out but the answer seems to be yes that
given a limited vocabulary between two ants it's possible to construct ant Society on the basis of a rather primitive language and when you say ant Society do you mean like the hierarchy of Queen and workers and all that that's right and building the nest and fending off Invaders and disposing of of dead ants and yeah all the things that ants do can can be replicated by a rather simple language that ants use when they communicate with each other what what about really complex ant societies like leaf cutter ants that develop these Caverns that allow for fermentation and air vents and have you ever have you seen when they've poured cement into leaf cutter ant mm colonies fascinating like they have very comp systems of caverns and labyrinths I mean it's weird stuff it's like it's all these tubes that lead to these rooms and there's vents that go up through the the through the ceiling and when they pour cement in it it's it almost is a shame because it's the only way you get to see it but you have to kill all the ants and you know we we we get a chance to look at it but it's magnificent what they're able to do and somehow or another this is a universal trait amongst the leaf cutter ants I mean they're able to do this all over the world yeah but unfortunately we humans are stuck with language and these languages are embedded du to a a society that created that language and there's no universal language unfortunately and it would be very difficult to extract a menthal language using electrodes uh because the language that we get from the brain is interpreted through English and so it be very difficult to have two brains communicate telepathically without having to go through English but what about what the ants are doing how are they doing that do you have a theory do you have you ever stopped and thought about like the technology involved and the creation of all these labyrinths and these these uh colonies and the fact that they're able to do this repeatedly well figure for the moment that they have a language a language that is chemical and they're able to exchange maybe 10 to 100 different chemicals what kind of society can you create with a 100
words well if you think about it we humans do pretty well with just a few hundred words to take a look at the evolution of human society a few hundred words is enough to create a a semblance of human society a few thousand words and then of course you're talking about accumulating new knowledge and new strategies but just to have a society that operates a few hundred words is probably enough when people gossip how many words do people use when they gossip just a few hundred words and we know that because we have robots now that try to communicate by gossip that's hilarious yeah and we realize that just a few hundred few hundred words is sufficient to communicate most human interactions now to communicate power high high hierarchies engineering requires more than a few hundred words but with a few hundred words that's enough to create a model human society and I imagine that these insects you talk about have a vocabulary of a few hundred words but what's interesting that you just said uh to communicate things like power hierarchies requires more words but they have power hierarchies so how are they communicating that well I don't know I'm not an an insect scientist I didn't know that they Farm fungi yeah that might have a lot to do with it you may have seen the impressive spectacle of leaf cutter ant Highway full of millions of bugs carrying cut sections of leaves grass or flowers back to their homes but did you know that the leaf cutter ants don't eat the leaves that they harvest so they use this to to okay here it is leaf cutter ants use leaves as their fertilizer to grow their crop fungus they cultivate their fungal Gardens by providing them with freshly cut leaves protecting them from pests and molds and clearing them of decayed material and garbage in return the fungus acts as a food source for the ants larvae so that that's really interesting right because we know that fungi and uh melium allows plants to communicate back and forth with each other through the soil and they they even use it to distribute resources but I claim that the a number of words necessary to communicate with other entities like insects is probably not that large uh a human being for example can reasonably work with about
5,000 words someone who's semi-educated went through High School knows about 5 5,000 words but just to create a society that works probably requires only a few hundred words and that's probably well within the capabilities of insects is it are we limiting our ability to theorize by saying words by thinking of words is it possible that instead of words they have an understanding of the tasks at hand without defining them with sounds or with symbols and that this allows them a freedom of communication without all of the baggage that comes with words enunciation context all those different things well it's possible to record memories now this has been done in the laboratory and these memories could be Universal now how do you do this short-term memories go through what is called the hippocampus is shaped like a horseshoe is at the very dead center of your brain that's where the hippocampus is if you put two electrodes two electrodes on either side of the hippocampus you can then calculate the the impulses that go back and forth you Rec record it like a tape recorder so I now have a tape recorder of a memory created by a mouse whose hippocampus was connected to the tape recorder then I take that memory and put it into another mouse or I play it back to the first Mouse after they forgotten that memory and bingo memories can now be transferred to the same Mouse over time or to another mouse so this has been done already so it's possible that memories may be in some sense Universal the memory itself can bypass the English language and go directly to another human and perhaps bypass ant language like there's no need for it that they can express themselves without that right this has been done with mice already now it's being done with primates we want to see whether or not primates can learn a simple task like for example drinking water that's what the mous were trained to do drink water record the memory of drinking water and then give it to another mouse was it a complicated way to drink water is like drinking water from a Feer or something these are simple memories because of course this is the first time it's ever been done right and so by doing this you can actually transfer memories between organisms that seem to be Universal but
isn't drinking water a Universal thing with mammals uh yeah but any any feat that they learn okay can in principle be encoded in the hippocampus and then the hippocampus in turn its memory can then be encoded into another hippocampus that's the point that memories in some sense can be recorded I understand but how do we know that the memories of drinking water are recorded and transmitted to another mouse uh because they learn skills you can transfer skills that the other mouth did not have by transferring this so skills on different methods of acquiring water yeah so that different memories can be and again these are small Snippets of memory we're not talking about reading a book we're just talking about a simple memory can be recorded by looking at the impulses that go across the hippocampus wasn't there an experiment where they took a mouse or they took mice or rats and they put them through a maze on the East Coast and because of that the the mice or rats I forget which rodent it was on the west coast was able to go through this maze quicker uh well it turns out that with uh monkeys it's possible to train monkeys to do certain very simple tasks and hook that by the internet to another monkey in Japan and that these These Memories can be transferred VI via the Internet and so that is something that's been done with monkeys not just with mice right but with the mice I don't think there was an exchange of information in a traditional sense I think the it was this was if I'm remembering it correctly this is Rupert sh sheldrick's um concept he had this concept of morphic resonance and the idea was that you could somehow or another bestow information like in A Primitive sense through a species where one spe one member of the species learns it and that in information somehow through some unknown method becomes more readily available to other members of that species that are not directly connected well I don't know about that we're talking about things that are reproducible in the laboratory signal I don't know if that was reproducible see if you can find if that's reproducible if that they did that cuz I remember I'm 99% sure it was Rupert sheldrake who's talking about
that and I remember thinking like that seems to be something that would be like a lot more popular popularly known yeah but we're talking about things that are done uh this these studies were done in Los Angeles right and uh we're talking about these these things are publishable other groups at MIT have replicated these experiments and so we're beginning now to understand the ways in which memories are created and transferred and when they transfer these memories uh from primate to primate through the internet what what method are they using to transmit electrical electrical so what is the what is the information how is the information encoded it's encoded as impulses electrical impulses that go across the uh hippocampus that you simply tape record it in other words there's no translator there's no intermediary that translates into English and back into electrical signals we're talking about raw electrical signals the raw signals that you don't process at all right simply being tape recorded and then shot into the same person months later and they recall the memory that they forgot right and what was able to be achieved with these primates uh well that's what's being done now first it was demonstrated in mice a simple task like drinking water can be then transferred on onto the internet I'm still confused about that because drinking water is a universal trait uh there were other traits too any trait that you say drinking water does doesn't every Mouse know how to drink water uh yeah but other things can be but they started with the simplest first right but how do we know that this information is transmitted to the mice since water drinking is just from the womb they know how to drink what happened was they taught the mouse some tricks and then they actually gave it a chemical which allowed the mouse to forget the trick okay and then later months later after the mouse forgot the trick they then did the shot the same electrical impulses into the hippocampus and the mouse immediately remembered the trick m that's how it was done and so what are they attempting to do with these primates specifically the same thing that what you can do with a mouse they think they can perhaps do with the primate and eventually the goal is Alzheimer's patients a memory chip they
want to create a memory chip that you push a button and then memories come flooding into the hippocampus of a Alzheimer's person so they know where they live uh if they get lost they know how to get back home they know who to call telephone numbers and things like that that's the ultimate goal is to create a memory chip for people that have fading memories like Alzheimer's patients that's the goal and then once that's achieved ultimately the possibilities are endless well yeah learn calculus at College by pushing a button and then the Matrix just like the Matrix right a whole memory shot into into the brain I'm I'm sure you're familiar with Ray kurur oh yeah I R what do you think about Ray's ideas that we're going to eventually be able to download Consciousness into some sort of a computer or something and you will essentially inhabit that rather than be a biological entity like that do we know enough about Consciousness that that's even possible well digital immortality is coming but digital immortality is coming in stages what's being done now today is something that that can be done anywhere uh they took William Shatner sat him in a room and simply let him talk and about his life they recorded this huge volume of information digitized it so that in the future his descendants can talk to him with a holographic image right but that's not him right like that's not him we always think of ourselves as how we feel like you're sitting here across from this table to with me it's not just your voice it's not just the your information that you have it's you like if I smile you smile back we laugh we joke around together this is two human beings interacting with each other if if it's just your digital memory and just your your voice and this digital Mo that's great for other people to experience but you won't experience it at all how far do you think we are or is it even possible to make you exist inside some sort of a computer or some of an electronic entity this gets us into the connectone project uh which I mentioned in my book the future of the Mind the connectone project is to locate the connections of every single neuron in your brain so far the connectone project has been able to take a fruit fly slice up the brain of a fruit fly put it in an
MRI scan and then map exactly all the neural connection of a 100,000 neurons inside the brain of a fruit fly that's today now that's 100,000 neurons the brain has 100 billion neurons so you see how far we have to go before we have the connectone project being able to create a digital copy of your brain uh and then of course you would live forever all your thoughts memories personality quirks everything would live forever right but would it evolve I mean it isn't a thing about your personality that it evolves changes depending upon your life experiences well in principle it would be you it would be a digital copy of you down to the neuron level we don't have this we won't have it for many decades to come but we're making progress right now we're up to 100,000 neurons being digitized and in the future it'll be perhaps a few million neurons perhaps a mouse a rat a rabbit that's perhaps the next jump and from there perhaps jumping to a monkey and then perhaps after that jumping to a human right but what is a person is the real question because we fluctuate we vary depending upon whether or not you got good sleep whether or not your heart is broken whether or not you got fired from your job whether or not you've had a great success and what you do for a living or what what your your hobbies are you change your mood you change the way you interact with people like that's what a person is I mean are we the Romantic idea of what a person is is something that creates and interacts and there's so much more to a person than just your digital memory and the amount of information that you've accumulated and the standard patterns that you've expressed throughout your life up until now I mean you can have some sort of a profound life-changing experience tomorrow and decide that you're going to change your ways and essentially be a different person than you were prior to that experience when we're talking about a digital identity or a digital life we're really talking about like this sort of static thing that you are now existing forever but isn't what being a person is one of the more interesting things about it is that we evolve and that with adversity and new information and relationships and the way we interact with each other it changes we
we vary depending upon our company we very depending upon the climate that we live in the community that we find ourselves in there's so many variables that we could think of as just data points but there's something more complex about being a person okay now there are two approaches to this question the first approach is the top- down approach the top down approach says that we're nothing but a bunch of neurons and you duplicate all the neurons and you feed all the information necessary for these neurons to calculate and voila we have a human yeah now the top down approach meant a lot of problems because of course the sophistication of the robot you created was extremely primitive people were not satisfied with that the thing couldn't learn couldn't adapt couldn't evolve as you said that's the top down approach now we're looking at the bottom up approach bottom up approach is when you bump into things you learn every neuron has to be changed every time you learn a new task and so the bottom up approach is successful in doing things that we didn't think were possible possible for example a walking robot it takes a lot of effort to make a robot walk because every single motion you have to include Newton's Laws of Motion mechanics leverage and so on and so forth that's a lot of work however bugs bugs can walk instantly as soon as they're born how do bugs do it when our most advanced military robot cannot do it you take our most advanced military robot put it in the forest and ask them to move around what happens they fall over they they're upside down like a turtle that's upside down how does nature do it nature does it by neural networks by rewiring itself after it learns every new task so you make a mistake well you learn from that mistake you make another mistake you learn from that mistake it's like what every mother says to their child taking music lessons how do you go to Carnegie Hall practice practice practice that's the bottomup approach so we now we now realize that human beings are both we have the bottomup approach when we're children and infants we learn by bumping into things that's why uh babies bite their toes why do babies bite their toes because they don't realize that their toes is connected to their body their their toe
they think is just an alien thing they have to bite it in order to convince themselves that the toe is connected to the brain that's the bottom up approach the top do approach is when we go to college when we go to college we take courses on literature philosophy that's the the top down approach we now realize you have to have both you have to have both one is the bottom up approach it's called the neural network approach and the other one is the top down approach which is what most people think robotics is one of the things that we were talking about with the the nurse outside before we came into this podcast is that I think that what we are now is not long for this world I think that this thing this romantic thing that creates music that can that can create a Jimmy hendris or that can make comedy create a Richard prior like that thing is emotions that thing is illogical sometimes impulsive but it creates these brilliant moving works of of art that affect us doesn't affect other creatures I mean I'm sure if you played a jimmi Hendrick song to a giraffe it wouldn't give a but to us it's something incredibly magical but I think that if you looked at what's possible in the future that might be more of an impediment than it is an asset and I wonder if with our integration if we have this symbiotic integration with technology that that might be one of the bottlenecks that we have to lose and that our future selves whatever we become like if we used to be a single- celled organism we became multi-celled organisms we became ancient primitive primates we become modern humans we become symbiotic with some sort of an electronic thing we we interwine with this and one of the problems if we look at all the things that are going going on in the world if we look at the greed that makes people become corrupt politicians if we look at the horrors of War we look at some of the more terrible things that people are capable of how many of those things are attached to our ancient primate minds and our ancient primate instincts and wouldn't it be far simpler and far easier to evolve if we left all those behind but in doing so we're going to lose everything we're going to lose art we're going to lose love we're going to lose creativity and
chaos and laughter and music literature we're going to lose it all because we're not going to be people anymore we're going to be more efficient thinking machines well some people ask yet another question which is CER to what you said and that is at what point do the machines become dangerous and turn on us artificial intelligence first of all of all our robots today believe it or not our military robots have the intelligence of a cockroach a cockroach a labotomy stupid cockroach you put them in the forest and they get lost they get lost you put a cockroach in the forest they find food mates shelter they do perfectly well in the forest but I can visualize a time in the future when our military robots have the intelligence of a mouse and then maybe a rat and then maybe a rabbit and then maybe a dog or a cat and by the end of the century I think perhaps the intelligence of a monkey at that point I think they're potentially dangerous because they have a mind of their own they realize that they're not human now dogs you see dogs are confused dogs think that we are a dog do you think you met Marshall you met my dog out there do you think he thinks you're dog yeah because imprinting when you're very young as a puppy you imprint immediately on who's the top dog who's the mother dog and you're very early in your stage of of growing up you know your pecking order very very clear because they are pack animals unlike cats cats are not pack animals they're Hunter lone Hunters that's why cats are very mysterious while dogs are pack animals they understand the hierarchy and they understand that you are the top dog they are the underdog and they are and you are the top dog but if you met my dog you know that he reacts very differently to people than he does to animals if he meets another dog it's a very different experience I think he knows the difference between a dog and a person I just think he accepts the fact that humans are the dominant animal but I don't think he thinks we're dogs well he thinks that this is tribe because dogs are tribal animals whatever you call it we are members of that tribe and we're the top dog we're the leader of that tribe but I therefore they dog I think he's got the ability to discern
between people and dogs well it's a question of hierarchy we are at the top of the hierarchy whatever you call it okay now what I'm getting at is what happens when they have the intelligence of a monkey at that point they're potentially dangerous because they can scheme they know that we're not monkeys we're alien to them so I think we should put a chip in their brain to shut them off once they have murderous thoughts well don't then then the next question is what happens 200 100 years from now when the robots become so intelligent that they know how to remove the chip they REM know how to remove all Fail Safe Systems at that point I'm guessing maybe 200 years from now I think we should merge with them oh boy so so um when you say that they could have like murderous intentions aren't murderous intentions attached to all the things that we discussed earlier like ego like uh the the need to breed to control territory all those things all these biological functions that make competition a necessity for human beings in order to perpetuate the survival of fittest like all those things exist because human being are these complicated animals that are trying to advance but why would an artificially intelligent thing that's been created have any instincts to advance or to get better well we would have to program it because we are the Gods in some sense we have to create these things in our machines right but that's where we're headed we're headed toward creating machines that are smarter and smarter and eventually they'll realize self-awareness now robots do not know they are robots you go up to a robot and congratulate it for doing a fantastic feat it thinks you're crazy robots have no self-awareness however by the time they're as smart as a monkey I think they will start to have selfawareness at that point I think they're potentially dangerous because they realize that we are not part of the self we're not part of the tribe and why should they take orders from us when they're not part of the tribe so I think as a interim measure we should put a chip in their brain that simply shuts them off once they start to question who they are with respect to humanity what I'm saying is what happens when they're so smart that
they can remove that chip right I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is all those feelings of wanting to do bad things of you know not trusting people of wanting to dominate people and take over aren't all those things biological and AR all they aren't all those thoughts and all the negative aspects of human beings aren't they related to our biological need to reproduce and to control territory and why would they have that they don't right they would never have that is what I'm saying oh no we could program to mimic our our bad behaviors if we wanted to do that right but we wouldn't right why would we do that well for for one thing we have to realize who pays for all this I mean these are all very abstract competents but who is the largest funer of this technology the government the Pentagon not just the government the pentag milary and the Pentagon does not create these objects to lose Wars they create these objects to win Wars right and the idea of War itself isn't the problem that human beings have these primitive primate Minds that are accustomed to tribal Warfare so we scale that up when we can control entire continents and perhaps even control the entire world that this is what we're doing so some people have postulated that what we need is a new philosophy toward AI good AI friendly AI as they call it yeah rather than having robots being created to kill other robots and kill humans which is the driving force behind this technology to create robots that want to help that want to nurture that want to be cooperative and of course there has to be money involved because who's going to pay for all this this is not cheap right but that's ideally where you want to go this is called friendly AI where AI does not necessarily go in the direction of survival of the fittest right but wouldn't there be money involved in Cooperative interaction with all people if if human like if we we our economies are based on interactions they're based on exchanges wouldn't more cooperation and more exchanging of resources and more cooperation in terms of uh intellectual properties wouldn't that be better for everyone overall because we would Advance better we would be able to solve some of our problems like climate change pollution things along those
lines well ideally yes but we live in a practical world a world where sometimes idealistic Notions don't get anywhere because there's no funding there's no impetus there's no desire in that direction so we have to create one we have to create a situation where we want to create robots want to create entities that want cooperation and to build rather than to destroy yeah that's what I'm saying and would wouldn't it be more intuitive for people to sort of accept those ideas if we slowly but surely abandoned a lot of our biological instincts like one of the things that freaks me out about aliens is that they're so uniform in like would people have these visions of these Grays now I don't know if they're real or not I don't I have no no opinion on that but it's fascinating to me that they all take on the same sort of image it's like this spinley thing with no muscle it has a big giant head and it seems to have no sexual organs and when I think about humans and all the things that trip us up and all the things that you cause so many of the problems you experience as civilizations it's ancient primates stuff like if we didn't have sexual desire if we didn't have ego if we didn't have all the biological necessities of breeding and controlling property and territory all the things that make war and violence if all that stuff was eliminated through technology and through the advancement of the species we would look like that that that to me is almost like a window into the future if we go back from ancient homin Australia epicus and look at what we hypothesize what we theorize they looked like they were very muscular like chimpanzee like you know some sort of hairy creature and then we look at what we are now we're losing our hair we're losing our muscles our brains are much larger the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years gigantic mystery what what are we doing well we're becoming more like what we imagine those aliens to be it's almost like they blueprint for us well if you go back a few hundred years into the past back then they didn't talk about aliens they talked about Gremlins and they talked about all sorts of forest creatures and things like that and then you look at pictures pictures created by uh people that were
fearful of Gremlins and leprechauns and stuff like that you say to yourself oh my God they look just like the aliens of today so in other words uh there's a subconscious fear in our brains that these objects are going to be dangerous to us and it's been with us for hundreds of years now there's something called sleep paralysis sleep paralysis afflicts about 5% of the human race when you wake up in the morning you are paralyzed now of course when you dream you are paralyzed otherwise you would act out your dream which is very dangerous so when you dream you are paralyzed and these people are the 5% these people are are still paralyzed when they wake up they can't move and they have an image an image of something sitting on their chest staring down on them and if you don't believe me Google it there's SE paintings done during the Victorian era well aware of it yeah yeah and they are the Gremlins yeah so it's part of our subconscious mind that we fear this image of a of a dwarf likee creatures uh weak big eyes and that's the aliens that we see uh in the movies it's part of our subconscious but the the Gremlins the images of the Gremlins were always grotesque and terrifying it's more nightmarish Visions than and seems like it's more connected to the animal world than it is to some sort of a futuristic Advanced civilization type thing I wonder if we know when human beings started seeing that very specific iconic image the image of the gray because that's the you like I mean how much of it is through pop culture we don't know but I know Betty and Barney Hill were one of the first people that experience this you know ironically it always happens at night right so it always happens when people are sleepy and the the problem with that I have with that is that we know that when people are asleep when they're dreaming the brain releases all sorts of psychoactive chemicals and that's responsible for these hallucinations and all these wild Viv viid imageries and I wonder how much of what's happening when people see these aliens is just because it's permeated pop culture from Close Encounters of the Third Kind which is the you know the quintessential Alien Encounter movie I mean that's what they all look like there're these tiny creatures with the
big heads you remember that movie yeah well I agree with you that there's a canonical alien yeah that uh big eyes and dwarfish body and spindly arms and legs and so on so forth but that may have nothing to do with the aliens that actually do exist in outer space right I believe they're out there I believe that there are intelligent life forms in the galaxy galaxy has 100 billion stars and uh we know that 100% uh of them have planets on average 100% of the Stars you see at night have planets going around them therefore they probably have life forms on them but they don't have to look like us as I said before all you all you need is eyesight an an appendage to manipulate the environment and language beyond that like an octopus I believe you could take an octopus breed it breed it for a few thousand years and perhaps it'll become intelligent because it has eyesight which is kind of feeble but it has eyesight it has tentacles by which to manipulate the environment but it has no language okay but I think it is possible that we could if we could orchestrate this grow an intelligent species from the earth that don't look anything like us so the fact that we see these alien creatures look just like a a dwarfish version of us is imprinted in our hippocampus and in our our amydala of our brain is intelligence limited to language though because we do know that octopi do things that seem to indicate intelligence like they know how to twist jars open they know how to open things they know how to manipulate stuff they know how to climb out of a fish tank go into another fish tank climb in Kill the fish and then climb back into their fish tank have you ever seen those videos yeah amazing what they can do right but they do these as solitary creatures they don't do this in a coordinated fashion to build a Starship you had to have lots of coordination a lots of Minds put together to create a star right I'm not saying that they have the kind of intelligence that we have but there's a type of intelligence you can't say that aren't intelligent oh no I think they have a level of intelligence that we've underestimated yeah and I think a lot of things like the porpus the dolphin they have a language that we still have not deciphered we still have not deciphered the language of dolphins and and sea creatures yeah yeah that that's really
fascinating because they also have dialects they they have different sounds that they make if they're in different parts of the world and we know they're intelligent because if you tape record their signals and run it through a computer program the computer program looks for the repetition of certain sounds like the letter E the letter e is the most common sound in the English language and you can rank them in terms of of how often you use these symbols and then run Shakespeare through it and you can actually tell whether two works of art were written by the same person whether Shakespeare really did invent a write all these plays by writing them through a computer program you do that with the dolphin now and sure enough there's intelligence there yeah you can actually see the intelligence in a tape recording of the sounds made by a dolphin how much of an effort uh is underway to try to decipher what they're doing and to be maybe even communicate with them somehow or another by recreating those sounds not much unfortunately uh but I think that's a shame because I think animals do communicate with each other their vocabulary I don't know I'm guessing is on the order of 20 to 50 words but still that's enough for them to survive in the wild and they definitely do communicate with sounds that are rep repetitive indicating intelligence you we John Lily no John Lily is a pioneer of interspecies communication who developed a he he tried to come up with methods to communicate with dolphins and they they had this one study that they were running that got shut down because this woman was living with a dolphin essentially they filled a a tank up and had it waste high in water and gave her a bed so she would climb out of the water into the bed and she would live with this dolphin and communicate with it but the dolphin was always um sexually aroused and it wouldn't communicate and it wouldn't participate in any of the things while it was horny essentially so she for a lack of better phrase manually manipulated the dolphin to Climax and uh they found out about that and they shut down the study because they thought it was disgusting that this woman was masturbating a do a
dolphin but what he was trying to do he was trying to come up with a bunch of different ways to interact with uh with dolphins and but he was trying to get the Dolphins to communicate with human language like to get the Dolphins to say human things and teach them I don't think they ever really got anywhere with it unfortunately but he was a wild guy he was also the guy that invented the sensory deprivation tank well I think it's the opposite that instead of having Dolphins learn English we should learn the language of the Dolphins but this was in the 60s also back then I still remember that the pleasure center of the human brain was isolated and that by pushing a button you can stimulate your own pleasure centor you take a mouse and you stick a mouse to a telegraph key and the telegraph key stimulates the pleasure centor of the mouse until the mouse dies of starvation so the mouse would rather die of starvation then stop stimulating his pleasure center right they go up the evolutionary scale and then they start to do the dolphin they put a dolphin in a chamber by moving forwards and backwards the dolphin can stimulate its own pleasure Center so they wonder what would happen would it starve to death well what happened was the dolphin would hit the pleasure Center repeatedly until it realized I'm dying I'm going to die so the porpus would stop get some food and then go back and stimulate himself some more well you know those dolphin stud or the the um the mice when they did that with mice and rats they the problem with that was they had put these things in a very unnatural environment like the same thing they did with cocaine and heroin with with rats and that when they tried to recreate the study but they gave him a much larger more natural environment they stopped doing it they stopped taking cocaine until they died they stopped taking heroin until they died they didn't self stimulate the same way they did before they essentially were doing it to medicate themselves because they were in a very unnatural laboratory environment of being in a cage and bright lights and the whole deal when they gave them an environment that's much more normal and natural they they didn't do that they would you know occasionally dabble with whatever drugs they were stimulated them with but they
went on to live normal rat lives well as I understand some experiments were done on humans years ago this of course would be unethical probably today but back then humans would realize that um this is going nowhere that at a certain point they begin to stop they're smart enough to realize this is madness well do you know about the woman who there was a woman in the 1970s I actually have a joke about it in my ACT where she was uh allergic to pain medication so they they drilled holes in her head and they stuck wires uh into various parts of her brain and gave her an electrical device and when she felt discomfort she could hit this button and a surge of electricity would go into the pleasure centers of her brain and she would orgasm and she orgasmed all day long she stopped communicating with her family she stopped personal hygiene it was a very complicated study because they they were trying to figure out what to do about this she begged them to take it away and then she fought them when they tried to take it away from her she developed an ulcer on the finger she used to manipulate the the thing because uh I I'll read it for you because it's very fascinating cuz I I saved this uh this study because it's so crazy because it tells you so much about human nature it's uh I think see if you can find it Jamie I I want to it's somewhere in it's uh it's somewhere in the 1970s but this is this is from the study at its most frequent the patient self-stimulated throughout the day neglecting her personal hygiene and family commitments a chronic ulceration developed on the tip of the finger used to adjust the amplitude dial and she frequently tampered with the device in an effort to increase the stimulation amplitude at times she implored her family to limit her access to the stimulator and each time demanding its return after a short Hiatus so they did try that with people we're not ready also there was an experiment done I think in the 50s with Bulls there was a professor at Columbia University who located the part of the Bull's brain that would stop them if they're charging so what they did was of course bulls will charge uh uh bull in the wild will charge you if you enter an arena with them he personally a Columbia
Professor would enter the bull ring oh god with a live Bull and they videotapes of it I just saw it the other day videotapes of the bull char ing this professor at Columbia he had a button he pushed the button and the bull stopped immediately wow and this of course raised a lot of eyebrows because we're no longer talking about reading the mind we're talking about mind control which is different from Simply reading thoughts and transferring thoughts from Human to human we're actually talking about changing behavior from the outside and so the video tapes you can you can Google them showing that there he is pushing this button he's right there with the bull just a few feet away and the bull comes to a dead stop when you push that button now is the device connected by wires or is it wir less uh I forgot whether it was connected by yre probably was I'm not sure good boy you would be really terrified if one of those wires broke oops sorry about that it just seems like such a risky move for the actual Prof Professor I feel like you could hire a rodeo clown and teach him how to hit the button you'd be better off at least he would understand how to evade the bull yeah but after that people it is right here so this is Jose Delgado implants and electromagnetic mind control so you have this bull they operate on it and we're watching this video and this is it seems like it's a long time ago what year was this I think it's in the 50s wow so he the bull comes at him it seems like he does something and the bull just stops yeah see stops and goes the other way wow there he is but I'm I'm confused as to how it's attached whether it's a a radio signal because it doesn't seem like there's a it's hard because it's very low resolution his hand it looks like it's wireless yeah it's definitely something in his hand but is it connected by a wire oh I see what you're saying probably probably radio wow boy it's amazing that so what does it say there 19 I'm just trying I'm gonna try to Google more it says 1965 experiment with an implanted bull wow so the name of the the uh video if you want to watch it folks Jose Delgado implants and electromagnetic mind control now remember this was done at the height of
the Cold War right when people were worried about the Manchurian Candidate you know that movie yeah and mind control during the Korean War uh certain GIS were brainwashed so there was a whole halalu around brainwashing mind control so what did the CIA do the CIA con constructed something called MK Ultra you probably read about MK Ultra right yeah but that's one of the motivations for Mk Ultra the fact that you could actually determine the behavior of a bull who's charging at you yeah with a button there's a fascinating book called chaos uh written by a guy named Tom O'Neal who wrote about the uh 1960s and the Charles Manson Murders and uh he connects it all to MK Ultra that Charles Manson was one of the oh really yeah was he was one of the test subjects of uh this guy named Jolly West who is one of the head guys of MK Ultra and they directly connect Jolly West to visiting Charles Manson in jail supplying him with LSD teaching him these sort of manipulative methods of controlling people with these psychedelic drugs is very very convincing it's detailed and researched over 20 years it's an amazing book because because of the Freedom of Information Act and because of what we know about MK Ultra and they did some wild stuff yeah are you aware of operation midnight climax no what that this is crazy they this is the CIA in the 1960s they um would set up these brothel and they had them in San Francisco and one other place I forget um but they would have these two-way mirrors and they would have these John's go in there with the ladies and the ladies would give the man a drink and the guy would drink it and there was LSD in the drink and so then they would observe them and then you know so these guys were unwitting test subjects and they figured they're not going to say anything because why why were you in a brothel why were you hanging out with prostitutes and so they just experimented on people and they did it for years and no one would complain right for that reason exactly I mean you what are you going to say I mean how would you even know what happened or what went wrong right and one of them committed suicide right in one of these experiments with LSD I think quite
window yes well they were doing they were doing a lot of wild stuff with soldiers too um and not just the United States there's a video from the I believe it's the late 50s where uh these soldiers in England and they uh they dosed them and then filmed them and it's this black see if you can find that black and white LSD studies from these soldiers and you know they were trying to figure out how to control people with LSD they knew it had a profound effect on Consciousness but they didn't exactly know like what the dosage were or operation money bags so this is the British Army and I I want to say this is like 56 does it say what year it is I I feel like I remember it being in the 1950s but it's really wild to watch so these guys are stumbling around 64 64 okay so put the um scroll it ahead a little bit so you could see how these guys are behaving so they had all these different ways of of controlling it and so these guys are all on LSD just wandering through the woods laughing and ultimately they gave up on it like they thought that it was going to be uh a way of controlling people's minds and then they thought no it's not that but it might be a way of extracting the truth cuz they would abandon all their cultural ideas and all these preconceived notions and It ultimately proved to be too blunt of an object to get surgical results yeah and they also did experiments on uh remote viewing and yeah it would put people in front of a map of the world and ask them to identify the location of Soviet submarines yeah put pins in a map locating all the Soviet submarines how accurate were they they got everything wrong not a single pin went to the location of a Soviet submarine that's a fascinating one CU people want to believe that psychic powers are absolutely real and obviously there's been the James Randy challenge that nobody has taken up on there like you had to you had to prove psychic ability and you could win a million dollars and you know he no takers no takers but you feel like I mean but people want to believe that there is some either whether it's an emerging phenomenon or some ability that human beings innately have to understand things that you can't weigh you can't measure that they're they're not exactly
the standard you know we have the standard understandings of what people are able to do with their mind but we always want to believe that there's someone out there that has just a little extra and we find nothing do you think that that might be an emerging aspect of human beings like we were talking about before that like ants have a way of communicating bees have a way of communicating that it's not outside the realm of possibility that one day human beings could develop an ability to see things or to communicate without words and that maybe that's what we're grasping for well as I mentioned there could be a universal language a language of neurons uh so far we take the language from the hippocampus run it to our laptop laptop that converts these impulses into letters of the alphabet let's say and you learn how to type you can type this way what about bypassing the laptop and being able to communicate directly through these impulses so you can put two people together and they exchange impulses to the to each other so that has not it's that's a an area that has not been explored but it's a possibility because that would give you a universal language by which you could talk to people not just exchange memories but exchange words and communicate with each other that has not yet been done what do you make of the idea that people have a connection to other people and that maybe you're thinking about that person and they call you and it could just be random it could be luck but there's a lot of people out there that are really married to the idea that there's some unknown phenomenon that's taking place well synchronicity is probably evolutionarily PR rammed into the brain because if you think about Jane and the phone rings and Jane is not there you forget about it it's useless information then when Jane does call you you freak out and you say I'm psychic I'm psychic I think about Jane and she calls why did the brain immediately forget all the attempts previously when Jane did not call because the brain has to get rid of garbage the brain has to get rid of all the extraneous information because we' be flooded we be flooded with extraneous memories so the hits we remember the hits yes we forget all the thousands of memories because it's good for evolution
right Evolution does not want us to be cluttered when a tiger approaches us we want to be alert and that means forgetting all the useless nonsense that goes through our brain and that's synchronicity the synchronicity is you remember the hits you don't remember the misses but is it possible that sometimes you're thinking about Jane and Jane's thinking about you but Jane doesn't call you and then one time you're thinking about Jane and Jane thinks about you and she says damn it I'm going to call him and she calls you well it's possible uh but like I said on average most of the times you just get nonsense calling you on the telephone you know selling you things whatever yeah and the Brain simply throws it out of his memory because it's useless information and the brain has to sort out good versus bad memory it remembers the hits but does not remember the misses I think K I think sheld Drake was also one of the people that theorized this morphic resonance thing and used it and applied it to dogs that dogs are able to figure out when their owner was coming home and critics and Skeptics said well don't the dog probably has a biological clock and the owner comes home around the same time every night but I'm not I don't really remember the parameters of the the experiment that if they tried to work around that by having the person come home at random times Well if you take a brain scan of the dog's brain you realize that it looks very different from our brain uh for example smells uh the area of the brain of the dog I think is about a hundred times larger than the counterpart in the human brain yeah and so the brain uh if as soon as it sniffs the presence of its master even though the master is quite a distance away uh the dog will immediately sense that and that's been used for covid-19 detection at Helsinki airport for example that dogs can be trained to recognize with 95% accuracy the presence of covid-19 also cancer dogs can be trained to recognize cancer better than most cancer tests because their olfactory area of the of the brain is much much larger than the olfactory counterpart in human beings so if you were to read the mind of a dog you would not see the world as we see it you would see a world of smells a world swirling with hundreds of
different kinds of smells that you are completely oblivious to so the mind of a dog and the Daydreams of a dog are quite different from the Daydreams of a human being well I can attest to that because my dog has a what's the best way to describe this he's got a fox friend the fox friend visits the the yard and shits in the yard and my dog loves to roll around in the so the other day I let him out in the yard and uh he's in the house and I don't think anything of it but my wife goes what is on his neck and I look and he's just smeared all over his chest and his neck and I go oh geez I know what it is before I even smell it so I go over to him and smell it it's horrible it's he's rolled in Fox so not only is his sense of smell far superior to ours but it's very different because he liked that smell and he wanted to get it all over him some for some strange reason I'm I don't understand what that does is it maybe it hides his smell he thinks from other animals maybe it's so strong that he can sneak up on squirrels because they don't smell him they just smell the I don't know well for my friends who owned a dog I asked them to do one experiment an experiment that you can do with your dog teach your dog tonight the meaning of tomorrow and you can't no matter how you try you cannot teach your dog the meaning of tomorrow so the dogs can smell things much much better than you but cannot imagine things much better than you right because humans live in the future think about what you're thinking about right now right now you're probably ding about oh I'm kind of like tired I want to get a cup of coffee I want to do this oh maybe I'll do this after the show is over you're constantly thinking about the future we live in the future okay dogs don't dogs live in a world of instinct they live in the world of now and it was good for their evolution now for our Evolution we don't smell very well we don't have claws very good we can't fly we don't have armor so what do we have going for us nothing except the brain and what does the brain do daydream so I think the essence of daydreaming is how we became intelligent because we as an animal are pretty stupid looking from an animals point of view no claws no fangs
no no armor can't fly our eyesight is horrible we don't smell anything we have nothing going for us except the brain right but didn't we evolve that way because of the brain and tools and our ability to cook food and all these different things that sort of slow but surely weakened our physical body yeah look at our jaw the jaws of our ancestors when you look at skeletons of Neals and things huge Jaws why because they had to eat raw meat they had to crack bones apart to get the bone marrow huge Jaws while we humans Homo sapiens have very tiny Jaws right and that's why your teeth are impacted you know you have the dentist has to remove your impacted back teeth because the jaw kept getting smaller and smaller and smaller jammed all the teeth together so at the back of your mouth all the teeth are are jammed together and they have to be removed or else you get infected yeah and it's due to the fact that we learned how to cook meat and meat is soft while the meat of our ancestors was raw and extremely hard to eat and the bones had to be cracked apart this is what I was talking about when I said that if you go back to look at ancient hominids and then you extrapolate and you think about what we're going to look like in a million years don't you think we' probably look like those aliens well I I tend to think that all those science fiction stories of am of humans having gigantic heads and small spendly bodies is wrong because we have stopped evolving there's no evolutionary pressure on us anymore you can have kids anywhere on the planet Earth they used to be bottlenecks like Australia used to be bottleneck where Evolution speeded up that's why Evolution speeded up in Australia because they were cut off from the mainstream evolution in Eurasia speed it up how in Australia in what way in in strange forms where it would shoot out because the the gene pool was smaller and if you have a very large Gene pole evolution is rather slow because odd genes are canceled out they average out in a small population you can have mutants mutants jump out rather quickly and that's why Australia has such strange animals because it's it's an island basically separated uh from the rest of uh of of the other continent Kangaroos and wombats and don't exist
anywhere else right yeah so what what so you think that we're just this forever I mean obviously there's been changes I mean have you you were talking about the changes to human beings from ancient hominids and neandertals to what we are now you think this is just stuck because it's too easy I think we're stuck because there's no evolutionary pressure uh perhaps at the molecular level to be healthy nobody wants to marry a sick person okay so there's always an evolutionary pressure not to mate with a sick person but if the person is reasonably healthy and you know makes a moderate good living then you want to mate with that person and keep Evolution going and there's no evolutionary pressure that was evolutionary pressure for us to have a big brain because we have nothing else going for us right so that's why we have a big brain but there's no evolutionary pressure to do anything else with the body and that's why I think that in the main gross anatomical features have stopped evolving chemically we're still evolving because we don't mate with mate with sick people but other than that I think that for the most part uh Evolution has stopped but aren't we still in some way involved in natural selection and isn't that one of the driving forces of evolution yeah but what are the pressures on on on that happening if you look at the movies you'll find out that what they select for is people that are healthy okay right and no no diseases in their history but but healthy and healthy in turn correlates with beauty because beautiful forms tend to be healthy and vice versa and so we we mate with healthy people who are good-look because they're healthy and as time goes on and as we continue this mating with beautiful people that are healthy don't you think there's at least some members of the human race that are experiencing some form of evolution and maybe that will all be radically accelerated by technology when we integrate when and if we decide to integrate via neuralink or something along those lines will that change the course of our advancement because we're thinking about what when we're thinking about Evolution we're thinking about some sort of an improvement and a better adapting to our circumstances and
environment that's the difference between us as we are now versus ancient hominids with no language well what humans do is enhance themselves that's why we have makeup that's why we have um uh people that try to puff up their muscles that's why we have tattoos uh people have been trying to enhance themselves since day one because they think that increases their reproductive success that's why they enhance themselves in the future we will be able to deliberately enhance ourselves yeah and I think that is possible I think on a scale of let's say 200 years uh it may be possible for us to mentally enhance ourselves increase our memory our capabilities live on other planets for example uh by enhancing the human being because that's what we do we enhance ourselves so do you think that that would be the solution to the bottleneck so if we are right now sort of stagnant in terms of Natural Evolution that's some sort of a techn technological Evolution whether it's through things like Gene manipulation like crisper or the like or some new not yet invented technology that will be able to design a better human being possible uh you know in science fiction stories that I used to read as a kid the the human of the future has a gigantic head head and and very very spindly organs of the body with a huge head to support but you see there's no evolutionary pressure in that direction people do not want to mate with somebody with a gigantic head uh there's no pressure in that direction I think in the future on the other hand when we have artificial enhancement of the human body we will enhance ourselves to look better looking not ugly like gigantic heads but stronger Supermen and super women yeah rather than these deformed creatures from science fiction but isn't that because we have this biological imperative to breed naturally the way animals do the survival of the fittest aspect of it the fact that you know the the bigger stronger animals breed before the weaker ones and that we are sort of Trapped in that Dynamic by our biology but we could Escape that if we are with willing to abandon that method of reproduction and that would make us look like the aliens that we would be these genderless you know almost like you know muscleless things and that by
integrating with technology and by having the satisfaction being able to satisfy all of those biological imperatives like the need for breeding sex all those things if all those things are eliminated and we come up with something that's far interor than that and it exists technologically or electronically or what what whatever it is wouldn't that be a way to solve that issue well some of that is happening already uh decades ago in Brooklyn the Jewish population had to worry about Tacs TX is a hereditary disease that afflicts Jewish people and by taking a looking at the embryos you can simply discard the embryos that have the tayac syndrome and keep the ones that don't what is Tac it's a disease of Jewish people where kids die very young and it's it's one of 5,000 genetic diseases that afflict the human race but it's only in the Jewish race uh yeah there was a mutation that took place in Eastern Europe several thousand years ago it has since proliferated into a a large number of Jewish populations and they have to worry about that and so matchmakers in the early days matchmakers would try to find out if the TAC syndrome existed in your family today we do it genetically and we can eliminate it now this has been going on for decades the fact that people have a choice to eliminate embryos that have the TX disease so you can you can sense it you can find it in the embryos that's right you can genetically alter your own Evolution so do are they able to do that if a woman has the embryo in her body uh so they would abort it yeah in other words they can get rid of embryos that to be imped this is through you know uh the ination invitro fertilization takes place outside the body you can analyze the genes and discard the ones that you don't like and that's today this has been going on for decades in the Jewish Community now is pretty much available commercially and I think in the future then you're talking about Evolution uh being changed at the chemical level that genetic diseases like hemophilia and cystic FiOS is for Europeans and um Cy anemia for African-Americans these genetic diseases could deliberately be eliminated by choice and that would just be one stage of our ability to manipulate people and
improve upon what you know we think when we think about the human race that's right once we identify genes for example that are associated with um intelligence M personally I think it's more complicated than that but let's say a family finds out through an advertisement that certain genes are correlated with intelligence then they can discard the embryos that don't have that Gene and so people can deliberately begin to alter the genetic makeup of their lineage yeah their genealogy is actually controllable in this way to a limited limited degree and that's to a limited degree but ultimately do you think that it's possible that we actually design a better human being yes however the trick is to find which genes correlate with which things okay behavior is very complicated because every Behavior probably has many genetic links if you take two twins me if you take two twins and take a look at their life history and so on and so forth you realize that about 50% of their behavior is genetically programmed and 50% is not genetically programmed so even with two identical twins behavior is actually rather difficult it's a combination of many factors but in the future if we get better at this then that opens the possibility of people choosing which traits they want in their own family tree to propagate so this is called gene therapy and there's two kinds of gene therapy somatic gene therapy and the gene therapy where you can actually change the genetic Heritage of your lineage so that that Gene that's Afflicted your family for centuries can now be totally eliminated but when you extrapolate that kind of technology and that kind of ability ultimately if you look at a 100 years from now or 500 years from now where do you think this goes well I think that as time goes by there's going to be a black market somebody will advertise a smart Gene uh good-look Gene uh a muscular Gene even if it's totally fake and put it on the internet we have not been able to to uh to monitor the drug trade think of what happens when genes illegal genes are entering the uh on the internet how do you stop that because a gene is nothing but information like atcg the four
nucleic acids arranged in a certain way how do you stop that that's a number yeah how do you stop illegal genes from proliferating but what about legal versions of it I mean especially I mean maybe we'll put some restrictions on it in this this country but I would imagine that there'd be other countries if they had access to that technology and they wanted to create a superior version of a human being I mean think about the horrors that Hitler created in Germany because he was trying to create the Aryan race see this is n this is the Brave New World by aldus Huxley right in that Society they deliberately reduce the oxygen on embryos to make them mentally they deliberately made the workers stupid by depriving them of oxygen and therefore they would control the intelligence of their society that way now that was a dream when he wrote that way back in the 1930s but many aspects of this of the technologies that he wrote about are actually possible but of course morally it would be of course a disaster to have these policies carried out but what happens if you have a dictator a dictator that wants soldiers that are mentally but are very strong and Obey orders to kill right okay that's a definite possibility when we have dictatorships that still exist on the earth wasn't there an there was an attempt at one point in time to combine human beings with chimpanzees to create like a super soldier or at least there was it if it wasn't experimental it was theoretical they were trying to see if it was possible see we can find anything about that I want I want to say that was C scientific ethics and Stalin's apeman super Wars that's what it was it was Stalin so there was some sort of at least an attempt I mean I don't think obviously it never worked but I think he was trying to figure out a way if he could combine humans and apes and create a superior Superior Soldier by the way when you take a look at the movie um Planet of the Apes uh the recent versions of the movie are actually becoming possible in the sense that we know the complete Genome of chimpanzees we know the complete Genome of humans and we look where they're different and they're only different in a very few select places we are genetically very
close to the chimpanzee with our genes we separated from the chimpanzee six million years ago and we have many of the same genes the genes that differ are the genes for manual dexterity which we have and and and chimpanzees don't have very much vocal cords and of course the size of the brain but we've located them we know which genes created in some sense the big brain better vocal vocalization and manual dexterity so it is conceivable though we can't do it today conceivable that something like Planet of the Apes may be possible so like what Stalin theorized could be something that we could introduce human specific characteristics into apes and they could create like a super soldier uh well how it would work I don't know all I'm saying is that we do know the genes that are different from chimpanzees and humans right we do know they accumulate in three major areas manual dexterity vocalization and brain size and we know which genes they are and that's just one step right I mean we could conceivably impart some of those characteristics into other animals yeah it's possible that's what gets weird right this is where ethics comes in we're not there yet but sooner or later we will be at the point where we have to look at the ethics of what happens when we transfer genes between species well I mean we need to look at the ethics of what happens when we experiment with makeup on you know animals because we're still doing things along those lines they're they're still doing all sorts of weird animal studies that may or may not be necessary well the good aspect is that you can take certain organs of pigs that are compatible with humans and therefore extend the lifespan of people that have fatal diseases that's aspect is that your your ringtone Let me hear your ring tone it's just a gentle dingdong it's an advertisement it is yeah I know the I know the advertisement Oh you mean that's you're getting a phone call from yeah you know you can press that button on the right hand side it'll stop the button on the right side of your phone I I love when super Geniuses don't know how to operate their phone Beyond me it's hilarious he was looking at the phone oh it's an Advertiser yeah he shut cut it off and he's like how do you do
that you're too busy with string theory you are one of the co-founders of uh the string theory the string field Theory which in turn is a branch of string theory that's right I don't understand that I'm too dumb for that I've tried I've tried I've I've heard multiple versions explanations I've heard it described it's still Greek to me it's music yeah you know uh Pythagoras was a rival of democrates democrates talked about Adams 2,000 years ago and uh Pythagoras said no no no music is the language of the universe so he looked at a li string and said look at the vibrations each vibration corresponds to a musical note the universe is music the universe is created by vibrating things each vibration corresponds to a note how did Pythagoras figure that out he looked at a he went to a um an um blacksmith where there were long bars of metal and they were clanging These Bars of metal he realized that the longer the metal the lower the note and he said aha there's a relationship between the length of the object its strength and the note and then he looked at a liar string and he said the longer the liar string the lower the node why the more more wavelengths and then he said this is the universe what explains the diversity what Paradigm is Rich enough to explain the diversity of the entire Universe atoms but what makes atoms different and then he said it's music but then they never went anywhere because of course the atomic theory wasn't created for another 2,000 years but finally with the atomic theory we now have subatomic particles but why do we have so many subatomic particles they're nothing but musical notes on a tiny tiny little vibrating string so this is the electron vibrates this way this is a quark this is a neutrino so why do we have so many particles in the particle Zoo they're nothing but vibrations on a tiny string so what is physics physics is the harmonies the harmonies of little vibrating strings what is chemistry chemistry is The Melodies you can play when these strings bump into each other then what is the universe the universe is a symphony of strings and then what is the mind of God that Albert Einstein wrote about so eloquently for 30 years the mind of God would be Cosmic music resonating through hyperspace that would
be the mind of God you're a really great science communicator and I know you've been doing this for a long time but how do you main is it just innate that you is it a natural thing that you maintain this enthusiasm for all this new information well my favorite Einstein story is Einstein said that if you can't cannot explain the theory to a child the theory is probably useless meaning that great theories are based on simple principles Concepts that you can see visually pictures useless theories are just a bunch of algebra they go nowhere so if you take a look at all the great theories they're pictoral take a look at Newton's Laws Newton's laws are based on billiard balls planets stars going around each other very pictorial Newton's Laws look at Einstein's laws based on meter sticks levers I mean meter sticks and Rockets and clocks take a look at String Theory little vibrating strings so great theories have a simple pictoral representation the theories that are easily explainable that's right and they're very profound we can explain the entire solar system with Newton's laws of motion and gravity based on you know balls going around other balls have you always been a person though that not has not just been interested in these ideas but also been interested in illustrating them to other people in a way that's comprehensible well when I was a kid well first of all when I was eight years old something happened which completely changed my life all the newspapers were saying that a great scientist had just died and they put a picture of his desk that's all just a picture of his desk with a book on it the book was empty and the caption said this is the unfinished manuscript of the greatest scientist of our time well I was fascinated I had to know what was in that book why couldn't he finish it why didn't he ask his mother why did why didn't he simply make up a theory so I went to the library and I found out this man's name was Albert Einstein and that unfinished book was The Theory of Everything an equation that would allow us to quote read the mind of God so I said to myself wow that's for me but then when I tried
to communicate this idea to other people their eyes would glaze over and it's because great ideas have a picture have some kind of concept a principle that can be explained in a few words Evolution one of the greatest principles of biology can be explained by saying survival of the fittest and so great ideas have very simple paradigms behind them but to explain that is very difficult unless you know what the Paradigm is and so this idea of explaining the mind of God do you think that we're going to ever come to a point as human beings where we can understand the creative force of the universe of everything well the driving force behind the universe's energy and the energy of what we think the energy of vibrating strings and these strings when they vibrate create subatomic particles and that's what the universe is made of subatomic particles but there's some sort of a there's some sort of advancement to constant new levels of complexity and that's certainly exists with the human race but it seems to exist with just the creation of the universe itself from The Big Bang Theory to stars exploding creating carbon which is the source of all carbon based life forms like us like all these things are like constantly becoming more and more complex Therefore your conclusion is what I don't have one a universe with Scientists like you I'm just happy that I get to talk to you I I mean I don't have a conclusion but I'm I'm wondering why the universe tends to have this momentum towards further and further levels of complexity well you're right there's a cough button there see that real red button you can get crazy press that button and just yeah let it out okay got it well one of the fundamental paradoxes of the universe is the universe is based on a simple number of constants like the the speed of light the mass of a proton but where do these numbers come from these numbers are tuned tuned like a radio to be exactly those frequencies and energies which make life possible if the nuclear Forest were a little bit stronger the sun would have burnt out billions of years ago and we wouldn't be here talking about this if the nuclear force were a little bit weaker the sun would never ignite it at
all and we still wouldn't be here everything is just right to be tuned to anow to allow for life so when I was in second grade I'll never forget my elementary school teacher said quote God so loved the Earth that he put the Earth just right from the Sun not too close oceans would boil not too far the oceans would freeze and I said to myself my God that's right the Earth is tuned tuned just right to allow for life the nuclear force is tuned just right if gravity were stronger the Earth would the universe would have been blown apart billions of years ago the universe is tuned just right to allow for life so my elementary school teacher said therefore God exists well now we have discovered thousands of planets which are too close which are too far from the mother sun and there's no Life as we know it on these planets so in other words it's a crapshoot that there are probably billions and billions of planets out there but only a handful of them have things just right from what they should be do you think it's possible that we're the most advanced life form in the universe probably not uh because on average well first of all we've discovered 5,000 planets orbiting other stars and of the 5,000 planets maybe 20% of them are earthlike and our galaxy contains a 100 billion stars each one on average with one planet or more going around it so the probability of life in the galaxy is almost 100% 100% life but what about intelligent life all the Bott yeah was that's what I was getting to because all the bottlenecks all the the the issues that keep all the other animals on this planet besides us from being the intelligent manipulative creature that we are the way we manipulate our environment I mean and our constant thirst for Innovation that doesn't seem to exist in other animals um yeah so in that sense we could be special to the Earth but in outer space there could be other different kinds of life forms dependent upon different factors for sure like the octopus the porpus spiders it's possible to imagine other life forms that could also be intelligent if there's an evolutionary pressure on them but dinosaurs were around for 200 million years and to the best of our knowledge
not a single one became intelligent they got lazy now we humans we've been around for 200,000 years that's nothing nothing 200,000 years and we became intelligent the dinosaurs had 200 million years to become intelligent none of them made it so it's not common on Earth but there's enough planets out there that it's most likely common in the universe for some sort of an intelligent Innovative species to exist and not just one planet but maybe an infinite number of planets and just remember the dinosaurs did not have a space program and that's why they're not here today no space program not intelligent enough to have a space program so to have a space program could be an evolutionary bottleneck if your species does not develop a space program sooner or later going to get wiped out and you got to develop a space program before you get hit with an asteroid that's right that's right and that's where we we are now either before you get hit with an asteroid or become one of those societies what is it level one where you're able to uh do something about super volcanoes right to do something about a type one civilization could deflect deflect asteroids def deflect meteors uh they're masters of their Planet that's one and that's what we need to get to and then we need to eventually become Interstellar so that we can escape if our star burns out if there's a supernova a nearby Galaxy if there's something that happens that kills us all we at least can propagate the universe right and that's type two and we actually found evidence of something that may look like a type two civilization though that's very very speculative there's something called tabi star that decreases in intensity by 20% periodically now that's incredible Stars don't simply diminish by 20% in intensity after a few years it's intermittently like intermittently right so the theory is that maybe there's a Dyson Sphere a type two civilization creates a sphere around the mother star to absorb all the energy from the mother star that's called a Dyson Sphere and so the thinking was that maybe a Dyson Sphere is orbiting around Tabby star diminishing sunlight by 20% well that's a theory some people think it's Comet dust or a smudge on a telescope but there it is 20% reduction
in Starlight in a star that which is unheard of now if a planet goes in front of the mother star sunlight diminishes by less than a percent if Jupiter goes in front of our sun Starlight from our sun diminishes by 1% but 20% % reduction in Starlight is incredible that's why some people think that's evidence of an intelligent object orbiting the star diminishing star light by 20% is that the best evidence that we have in in terms of the observable universe that's right the that's the only evidence we have of a possible type two civilization which is called a Dyson Sphere a gigantic sphere that uses up all the energy of the mother star how do you think the human race would handle it if we were confronted with just complete absolute evidence that intelligent life exists on another planet and they have the capability of coming here well everyone thinks that when a fling saasha lands on the White House lawn yeah and the aliens come out promising advanced technology for all of us that there are protocols protocols who's going to be contacted first Secretary of Defense the vice president so on and so forth the United Nations nope there's nothing there's no protocol for us to confront what happens when an extraterrestrial civilization lands on the planet Earth and announces its existence if anything there would be chaos different planets will try to angle for an advantage they'll try to be friendly with the aliens to the exclusion of their enemies I think this going be a real mess do you think that that's possible inside of our lifetime I think within our lifetime we could definitely see that we will intercept a signal from another intelligence civilization this is called the CI project MH I think that's very possible within this Century now there's also the mey project which I tend to disagree with the mey project is does that stand for to to message to to message extraterrestrial intelligence to advertise our existence you think that's a bad idea I think it's a huge huge huge mistake because look what happened to um Mexico when Cortez met monuma hundreds of years ago monuma made the biggest mistake in ancient history he thought that Cortez was a god nope Cortez was a bloodthirsty pirate looking for gold but what did Cortez have he had the horse
Aztec had no horse he had Steel weapons the Aztec had bronze weapons Cortez had the written language Spanish the Aztecs had no written language they had a pictoral language but not a written language Cortez had the horse nope the Aztec did not and within a few months the Aztec civilization was destroyed so I think in before we know the intentions of the aliens we should not advertise our existence don't you think that the technological advantage that Cortez had over the a Aztec is also there's there's a biological similarity they were they were not much different from each other they were the same species we would be dealing with something that would be akin to us observing ant colonies or us observing some sort of primitive life form it would be far superior it wouldn't be like other Dolphins cruising in on a new pot of dolphins that didn't know any better and taking all their stuff which is essentially what happened when Cortez met monuma right it's like going down a country road and seeing a bunch of ants on the floor and going down to the ants and saying I bring you trinkets yes I give you beads I give you nuclear energy right take me to your ant queen or do you have this Politically Incorrect urge to step on a few of them I think we have to worry about that now let's say you're walking down a forest to see a squirrel at that point you may want to talk to the squirrel squirrel must have an interesting life so you try to talk to the squirrel but after a while you get kind of bored because the squirrel doesn't talk back to you it doesn't have anything interesting to say to you so what do you do you simply leave the squirrel alone so these are two possibilities one is the aliens May simply step on us because we're irrelevant and the other one is that they'll simply ignore us because we have nothing to contribute to them what do you make of the stories and reports of nuclear weapons facilities being shut down when there was a sighting and that these things hovered over these nuclear facilities and they shut them down right that happened in 1967 at the Mal Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana where there were 10 icbms that shut down remember this is our Nuclear Strike Force they have to be operational 24/7 right and they shut
down they shut down and in the presence of a glowing ball in the air yeah so people put two and two together and said maybe the aliens want to neutralize our icbms for the hell of it we don't know all we know is that these are military men these are military grade equipment there's plenty of of documentation and there I think there's 120 military men over the years who've said that there are things like this at other missile bases yes now that means at least one of two things either the aliens are interested in our nuclear capability or they just uh or our military simply has sensors everywhere that the average amateur does not and therefore of course of course the military is going to pick it up because they have the radar they have the sensors and we don't but it's random basically so there's several ways of looking at that so it could be random that the machines and the that all the ICBM shut down the same time that they're being visited by an unexplained aerial phenomenon that's also possible Right possible MH but if you were an intelligent species that had an eye on Earth and you're like you know they're coming along but they're kind of crazy they're wild territorial Apes with thermonuclear weapons and they get jealous and greedy and some of them are evil sociopaths and they they lack moral intelligence and they do crazy stuff we have to just make sure that they don't destroy themselves because one of the things that about UFO lore that I find fascinating is the the the uptick they generally agreed upon uptick that happened after the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki like that those bombs were dropped and that once they realized that we not only had nuclear capability but that we were willing to murder hundreds of thousands of people that that's when all the sighting started like they go oh Jesus okay we got to go visit these people well that's possible that's one Theory um other people say that after World War II people got used to the idea of things in the sky right gigantic bombers and weapons of war in the sky and every time someone saw something in the sky they would think oh my God they're not us bombers they're alien bombers right yeah we don't know but that's a possibility uh you see when you start to hit type one status you become interesting cu
before type 1 you cannot destroy yourself as a civilization right nothing known to science can completely destroy a type 1 civilization unless there's a virus of some sort because they have no weapons that can do that once you're type one you have nuclear weapons you discover element 92 as as a type zero civilization you discover element 1 2 3 4 what is element 92 uranium yeah so once you go up the scale and you're type one you eventually inevita hit element 92 which is uranium which has a finite critical mass about 20 pounds and you're able to create a nuclear weapon and that's at the instant that you have become a type 1 civilization so if I was an alien in with an advanced civilization I would monitor those planets that are on the verge of becoming type one because those are the planets that have the capability of discovering element 92 and once they did discover element 92 and Implement implemented it in Warfare then I would think if you were really concerned that would be the time to step in yeah now that's of course purely hypothetical but that's there is a logical basis to thinking about that because we are about to make the greatest transition in human history from type zero to type one are you aware of the story of Bob Lazar no no really interesting oh yeah he's the guy that's supposed to work that area S4 and he worked on back engineering spacecrafts and this was in like the late 1980s and George knp had him on television and he discussed it because he was concerned that they were going to uh possibly have him killed because he had access to this information and he uh he worked at Los Alamos labs and he was a propulsions expert and they brought him on board to try to back engineer this craft it's a very it's one of the most famous stories in UFO folklore because there's a lot of you know there's a lot of chicanery involved it's hard to know what's true and what's not true but one of the things that he said was that this alien civilization that created the spacecraft had harnessed a stable version of element 115 and he talked about this in the late n late 80s and I I don't believe they isolated Element 115 outside of it being theoretical I don't think they isolated
until somewhere in the 2000s well I get a lot of emails and some of them talk about conspiracy theories yeah and my advice to them is if you are ever kidnapped by a flying saucer for God's sake steal something an alien chip an alien Hammer an alien paperclip steal something because there's no law against stealing from an extraterrestrial civilization there's no law at all of he was was claiming to be kidnapped he was claiming that the United States government had had in their possession more than one of these recovered crafts now for those people who make these claims my only thing is we need something tangible yes because Science is based on things that are testable reproducible and falsifiable that's called science if somebody says something maybe it's true maybe it's not true but what are we supposed to do if there's no evidence pointing one way the other you see these recent photographs that the military has released that's a gold mine a gold mine of data we're analyzing them frame by frame because these are't things that are testable reproducible on film but when you're talking about alien craft that's that's crash landed maybe maybe not what are we supposed to say right the only thing that they have pointed to as evidence is and it's not from this particular situation with bobazar but other um they they've found objects that are made in a very sophisticated manner some sort of a form of Metallurgy have you ever seen any of that stuff no I've heard that some people claim that they've been able to get Globs of melted metal when a flying saucer landed and among the debris they they saw some pieces of melt metal but these have never been analyzed to my degree we should put them through a spectroscope to see what they're made of I think they have I think there was was it um who what scientist had there there was a piece of something that they had what from Unknown Origin that was the nitol thing yes nickel titanium mixture it was it was so complex that to be able to do that it was Poss possible it's possible to be able to do it it's not like it's an impossible thing to do on Earth but it would cost an insane amount of money to recreate this Metallurgy and that this was from supposedly some sort of a crash site and what was the guy it
was it from the guy from Stamford that analyzed it wasn't it uh sorry there's a name I saw I don't think it's this doesn't say Stanford I don't know I don't know there is a professor sturak at Stanford who invested Ates UFOs and things like that but you mentioned Element 115 yes I remember now there is a conjecture that was made about an element like that uh actually we've created uh that element yeah and it tends to be unstable and it does not seem to have any magical properties but it's actually been created very briefly with our particle accelerators yes that's what Bob Lazar discovered or that he um discussed rather but we didn't find anything a new usual about it I see people have looked for what they called metastable states that are transuranic that is beyond uranium uh some people have theorized that way Beyond uranium there's a stability of an island of stability so that these um elements are stable and you can make maybe bombs out of them so the military was interested in that concept but so far no one's ever seen this island of stability that's way out there what he was trying to say is that this extraterrestrial civilization had either developed or was in possession of a stable version of 115 and through that stable version of 115 they were able to distort gravity and that that's how that thing manipulated the environment around it to move at insane rates of speed and what's interesting is what he described they actually observed on one of the um one of the videos that the government had gotten from fighter jets the same way the craft this is it right here this thing right here on this table that is a recreation of what Bob Lazar had this is a guy named it's designed by Perry uh the e in Perry is like a three I believe and he's created this uh artistic version that is a recreation of what Bob Lazar described seeing at area S4 and what Bob Lazar says is this thing turns sideways or turns like instead of like uh being perpendicular being being uh perpendicular uh or parallel rather it it goes up and down and then moves at insane rates of speed and it uses this element obviously this sounds like crazy talk uh uses this element to bend gravity around it and the way he
described it was as if you were taking a bowling ball and placing it in the center of a mattress that the weight of the bowling ball would push down and make everything else come around it well I don't know yeah obvious um all I know is that in in gravity Theory there's something called the equivalence principle and that pieces of matter of the same of the same weight are basically aerate the same under Gravity everything falls at the same rate if I have a piece of metal here a gigantic piece of metal or a small piece of metal they both fall at 32 feet per second squared right so if he claimed to have a new element it would also fall in at 32 ft per second squ I don't think he's saying it falls I see I think what he's saying is this generator this something in this element 115 allows this Advanced civilization to bend gravity around it and it that's the propulsion system that it uses well I don't know however if it's possible that you are a type three civilization it's possible to have energy on a scale that is incomprehensible by our standards and then you can start to manipulate gravity at will okay yeah but again this is not for type one not even for type two right but if you're at the type three civilization you can manipulate plank energy scale physics at that point it might be possible to manipulate gravity as I mentioned before negative energy is something that you can use to drive a Starship but you need large quantities of negative energy to do that and that's the alab Beer drive so if somehow they're able to harness that kind of energy then yeah things might be possible but I have to see it right of course you are a real scientist um one of the things that I am really interested in is supposedly there is evidence that hasn't been released there's video evidence and photographic evidence that the government is in possession of uh Christopher melon who formerly of the was it Department of Defense is that what he he uh discussed it that there's there's some really high resolution fascinating videos and photographs and that what we've seen is just a drop in the bucket and that the government is in possession of much more of this stuff has anybody ever discussed that with you well no but the military now admits that there's much more data
out there that they have not been released yeah and that their pilots many times shut off their cameras because no one would believe them but they would report it verbally but there's nothing no record of it because they realize people would laugh at them so the military has now issued a statement saying that Pilots should report these things rather than simply erase these things so there's a lot of stuff out there in fact there's one report that said that these would go on for days for days these objects would be flying around not just one second or whatever so yeah there's a lot of stuff that's been not release to the public well it's a very fascinating subject and uh to me it it means a lot that someone like yourself who is a very respected physicist is willing to entertain these these thoughts and and discuss it with people and I'm I'm glad we're in a new era where that's possible yeah well remarkable claims require remarkable proof and as long as the claims are remarkable and there's some kind of proof to go with it it's worthy of scientific investigation well thank you very much and thank you for your time thanks for coming here I really really appreciate it um if anybody wants any more information you uh what's the best way to go about it do you have a website yeah I have a website M Kaku .org mka.org that's the best way yeah okay and my latest book is called the god equation the Quest for a theory of everything and that is it available in audio form as well yeah did you read it huh did you read the audio book I have somebody else read it because it takes takes about a week yeah takes about a week for someone to sit down and read everything unfortunately though you have such a specific sound to your voice that I think people would appreciate it if you did read it oh well I'll think about it well thank you very much I really appreciate it it's been great talking to you okay M thank you all right bye everybody [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]