Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEB_7GYJQXY
[Music] oh yeah and last time i guess i talked really loud apparently no you don't oh you read comments don't read comments don't read comments don't read comments he told me that last time never read comments never read i told the donald donald when donnell and i did a podcast with the rizza it was so much fun afterwards over our game a big hug i said that was fun don't read the comments and he went on like for weeks for weeks he was like on this like defensive campaign but donald maybe maybe he should read a few of the comments i don't think so i don't think so i i like him perfectly flawed i like him yeah yeah i don't want i don't want him to change at all i mean i'd like him to grow and get better as a human being but that whole like interrupting thing that he does like yeah that's great man that's him i'm a very sensitive guy though i need to know what i've said how that affects people you're in the wrong business if you're a sensitive guy you're in the wrong business [ __ ] you got to get out of those comments don't read them if they said that you were too loud that means one [ __ ] person thought you were too loud and they've put it out there and then another person reads that and going yeah it's too loud am i doing no you're not too loud you're not too loud that's not real do you not go into your own comment section on instagram like never ever it is the wild west and every check mark every like legitimate celebrity everybody's trying to beat each other not just to be the first to comment on anything you post but to have like the smartest quip or the funniest like one-liner yeah that's good it's a talent show that's good because you get a hundred followers from having one solid comment on a rogan post that's funny the people actually do that they try to get followers from con i mean look i probably would do that too if i didn't have oh yeah i'm not saying that because i'm above it i'm in there too yeah
that's a good one-liner for this well it is kind of a thing on on youtube right like when i read uh youtube comments on other people i do read them on other people's videos but it is funny like how people they develop like a little community they [ __ ] with each other and go back and forth and they you know and then you let go oh this guy always has funny things to say and you read his comment and they dog pile on you oh they dog pile yeah they definitely dog pile that's why it's but it's like that's the kind of people that are doing that the kind of people that are leaving a lot of comments are the kind of people that complain a lot like you don't want you don't and they're going to be more prevalent because there's more of them so it's a it's a biased sample group it'll give you a distorted perception of what the actual show was like people who want to be heard who want to have their own essay on things that really have nothing to do with them at all it's just like their moment to grab a little spotlight people like to talk and also you gotta always take into consideration there's a lot of people out there that are doing this while they work because they hate their job their job sucks so they just complain about [ __ ] [ __ ] this dude and that's like fun to say fun to say [ __ ] that guy you know like he talks too much he's too loud he's this he's not funny he's that he's you know it's like you can't to it's you need some feedback but lucky as a comic you get feedback from audiences and i do i do like audit myself i do like think about my own self like what i do if it's too loud or too this or too dumb or not funny or whatever i'm my worst critic so i don't need other critics and you performing in front of an audience on a regular basis you have like real-time reaction person doesn't have an opportunity to say he's not funny after he's finished laughing right right too late to [ __ ] yeah that's a problem it's just it's like you know we're just navigating this whole new world of social media it's weird you know it's new it's but it hasn't been it's not like our grandparents did it and boy when you get on twitter i'll tell you what happened to me when i got
on twitter no they don't [ __ ] they don't have any data no one knows well we're in the moment i think that we're learning yeah and we're learning a real valuable lesson right now as to how that uh what chapel likes to call uh not a real place twitter yeah affects our real lives like this line is blurred yeah between what's happening online and what's happening in real life yeah uh you know i we you weren't with dave at the hollywood bowl yeah this is what i'm saying we'd probably be remiss if we didn't address that off the top right because i'm what 36 hours removed from that like one sleep away from what in the moment i recognize as an assassination attempt on my best friend right like we get we have the incredible good fortune to be able to be laughing about it now right and uh there's the memes and everybody is making fun of how this guy got broken up into a pretzel and dave's good reflexes and all that only is entertaining because because we don't have to have an inconsolable moment of grief which was one thought in this guy's mind away from that being the reality today right yeah i mean well i think the guy was like legitimately mentally ill but also the security of the hollywood bowl sucks every dick that's ever walked the face of the earth not the dick's walk but the fact that you let that guy apparently people are saying to security hey this guy passed the barrier like they he got through the barrier and they ignored him they were just watching the show and then he literally made a run for it their security is [ __ ] terrible the fact that that guy got to where he got is terrible but that's the case with a lot of venues man a lot of venues we do we look around we were in jacksonville there's a [ __ ] guy that was sleeping sleeping security during the show right like they're not paying attention not paying
attention to [ __ ] it just happens security at a venue is most likely minimum wage workers not that the amount of money that you're being paid necessarily indicates how seriously you take your job but it's going to be hard to get 50 people working one venue at minimum wage that take their job incredibly seriously or have gone through some extensive training i don't think they're qualified for that job they definitely get paid more than minimum wage but the point is like they should hire cops they should have off-duty police they should have people that are near the stage especially when it's dave after all that [ __ ] that went down with netflix and just i don't know what kind of assessments they do about people and like threats and stuff like that but that guy actually had made a tweet saying dave chappelle you're next after will smith got got slapped or excuse me after chris rock got slapped by will smith i don't know that there's any level of security that insulate you from real life that's true a guy like that who we can't say his name i don't even want to reference this [ __ ] because it's the kind of attention that they want like part of the idea of a person like that is that now they become something they become special yeah for a moment a special person yeah we want to look at what they their videos we want to look at their tweets we want to figure out who this guy is and speak their name and for him that is everything that's worth everything that happened yeah but for us the idea that anybody in this world can get at you that any thought that somebody has in their head can change literally the course of history and take the people from us that we love they're not to be famous they don't have to be of great impact to the entire world but i've lost loved ones i know you've lost loved ones seeing in that moment that i might actually have lost my best friend on the world stage in front of everybody on cameras all of us there
thinking that we could protect them all of us there thinking well it couldn't possibly be a guy jumping a barrier jumping on stage with a clean runner dave with the weapon with a knife that shaped like a [ __ ] gun that's inconceivable that couldn't possibly happen right if it can happen there it can happen anywhere well not only that there's a lot of video of it what happened to those [ __ ] cell phones being in a bag i mean a lot of people had knives a lot of other people had knives too they cut those [ __ ] bags open they need metal detectors at dave shows now i'm sure they're gonna ramp up metal detectors what that guy went through a metal detector with a knife if he came through the normal order of security then he had to walk through a metal detector how did he even get a ticket he was a homeless guy i mean you know these questions uh yeah the kind of things that i'll twist your knots and keep you tossing and turning all night the broader emotion i'm i'm struggling with is the reality that we have to like have a bit more gratitude for the people that we have on this planet in our lives in our sphere of entertainment and influence while they're here like i don't want to be posting about how much oh we all loved dave and what we missed you know uh what we could have said and i don't i don't need a nepsi or russell moment you know what i mean right um what i need is people to like just think for a minute about how we approach the people even with whom we disagree yeah with this veil of violence with this veil of like yeah like you know [ __ ] that guy is one thing yeah but kill that guy it's another thing stop that guy somehow removing that guy from the planet removes the idea that we don't like that that person has or whatever we disagree with must be silenced forever that is what you were saying earlier about twitter spilling over in real life that's what i'm talking about yeah that's uh that the attitude that people take when they're removed from social cues from looking in
a person's eyes from emotions when you're angry about a person that's like that's one of the weird things that that social media does it removes you from humanity because you're not really talking to a person you're just typing letters no you don't see the person reading them you hope that they feel bad because it's fun but you don't even know them you know you're just you can interact with someone so when you could say chappelle you're next you could say that but if you were right in front of them and you said chappelle your next says what did i do and then and you're like well you said this he goes i never said that and then now you're having a conversation he's like you're anti-trans he goes i am not anti-trans and then you have this conversation and all sudden you realize it's just two human beings but instead of that you've got chappelle you're next in a tweet and then this [ __ ] living in this like weird disconnected world decides he's actually going to make a physical violent move and there's so much of that that you could ignore somebody saying yes dave you're next because there might be a thousand people saying that but the one guy who actually means it right could change all of our lives forever yeah so instead of trying to find that needle in the haystack or hoping that the hollywood bowl security is on top of their game or to be fair all of us who were there backstage in the audience side stage who love him could get there in the moment and and save him from impending doom what if we just police each other in the public space what if we don't accept that on social media from our peers from each other somebody jumps on and says some [ __ ] like that we can't wait till he's on stage at the hollywood bowl to be like hey man maybe we should take a look at that guy what you're talking about you're you're you're trying to manage at scale amongst hundreds of millions of people if you're talking about that like the amount of people that are interacting with people online within every minute of every day there's just millions it's just constantly there's no way anybody could ever manage that but you can manage yourself yes he's a
homeless person who's got mental illness problems and black nail polish and he calls himself they them you know and when he's got a the dumbest [ __ ] weapon ever by the way it's a fake gun that's a knife yeah you know a smart weapon is a fake knife that's a gun that's smart because it looks like a knife ah you can't get me you're over there oh yeah bang that's a smart weapon my point is to make that guy stand out more as an anomaly than a casual normal comment you might see on anybody's page at any time well he's more of an uh anomaly it's just there's a lot of anomalies when you're dealing with hundreds of millions of people that are tweeting all day long every day it's just we this the discourse in this country is so [ __ ] poison it's weird there's so many people fighting back and forth in this way where they're they're disagreeing in text you know it's just a [ __ ] way to communicate with people yeah and as you said it's like it removes the humanity from it completely yeah this is this is just i see this person entirely as a thought or this one comedy made or a joke that he made that i thought we went too far i didn't like it and now all this everything that i feel about that moment or that comment is heaped upon this actual human person yeah yeah it's uh it's a mess it's a [ __ ] mess that turmeric coffee gets in your throat right um we're talking before this podcast about your your former cigarette habit like you you were two packs a day two packs a day joe yeah and i couldn't put it down until i realized that so you know smokers are it's a routine thing also yeah so my thing was i would have two cigarettes left in the pack at the end of every night so in the morning before you have that first like you know pee even sometimes you gotta have that first cigarette like that's the start of the day how did you quit i phase withdrawal phase withdrawal that's what i call it right so what i would do is for instance those moments where you need the cigarette like right after you eat right before
you go to the bathroom first thing in the morning i would take one of those elements away like okay i'm still smoking i'm still gonna enjoy as many cigarettes as i want but i'm gonna have breakfast first i'm just not gonna have that first cigarette in the morning before i eat and then the rest of the day is it's carb blotch whatever i want to do and this is your idea yeah you know everybody i've tried i tried the cold turkey i tried like oh i'm just not gonna smoke anymore it doesn't work but what did work was finding spots just spots when you're not allowing yourself to smoke and giving yourself free reins the rest of the time and the more spots you remove the less smoking you actually do and you hold to that and hold to that and after a while you've you've phased yourself out enough where then you can kick maybe six or seven cigarettes a day instead of 20. you know what i mean and so when you got down to six or seven cigarettes a day then you went cold turkey yeah then it's just like then you've got some distance that's smart that's a smart way to do it because i think they say that that's the the smartest way to do alcohol unless you do it in a medical setting because uh alcohol is one of the rare uh drugs that when you kick it it can actually kill you you become so dependent upon alcohol that your your body if you're an alcoholic like a severe alcoholic your body needs alcohol to function same as benzodiazepines benzodiazepines xanax and the like yeah if you have a severe addiction to those and then you kick it you'll die it's one of the rare drugs uh i've drank a lot in my day i've dabbled in other drugs the only thing i still have cravings i still drink but not as heavily as i once did i haven't had a cigarette in 14 years i still get cravings really do you smoke weed no no no so you don't smoke weed no cigarettes no no tobacco products at all never dip do you ever use those [ __ ] brandon chad was here last week he tried to get me to try those little pouches they're so [ __ ] yeah it's it's the tumeric is that what it is like it's like down there tickling my head coats your throat it's really annoying i
stopped doing it for a long time and then uh laird hamilton sent me another one of those coffee machines and i used it here and i'm like god damn it now i got that that m again so i used to do a lot of things like in abundance right right so uh drinking now i've i actually did the same thing with with drinking because for a while in the pantheon i think we all slipped a little bit too deep into like whatever our comforts were yeah and i was fortunate enough to be an environment where was very happy and energetic and we were up and we were doing things and producing stuff and uh you know alcohol is my elixir of choice so i went i went a little too far with it right so i had a dollar and it wasn't like oh you know what i drink too much and this isn't healthy and i need to get like you know a better mental state and i should be sober and bro i started looking in the mirror and i could see alcohol in my face what did you see what the [ __ ] i was getting like puffy face and baggy eyes and i started like [ __ ] old like alcohol old alcohol will [ __ ] age this [ __ ] i did not know that so my route to everything was just like vanity i was like yeah when during those days man when we were doing those shows at stubbs and um it was it was it was weird because it was like the world was still kind of shut down yeah you know everything was kind of shut down but then we would have that coveted bubble and we'd all be hanging out backstage with no masks and celebrities would come back there and party with us and we're all drinking and having fun it's like it felt really special it felt because it it wasn't just that it was fun it was fun when no one was having fun but it wasn't because we were being reckless or incredibly cavalier there's a and a regiment of testing and we did all the stuff so that we could have that freedom inside our space yeah not just testing but we we tested the entire [ __ ] audience right yeah we tested everybody in the audience we tested everybody backstage
and then there's a couple in knuckleheads that violated protocol and [ __ ] it up for everybody it's interesting when that happened when a couple people decided they're going to hang out with other people and like do podcasts and [ __ ] and then they got sick right hey what are you doing we had a [ __ ] rule here everybody gets tested you can't just show up on some random podcast without testing people and that's the thing you have to respect how much effort and attention energy money went into making sure that we could all feel safe and feel comfortable you go outside of that for your own personal like you know advancement or your your daily desire well you're being a real [ __ ] but that's not the fault of the infrastructure like these guys put together something that was really difficult to do at the time require that they pay very close attention to what the cdc was saying and how we could stop any kind of spread if somebody did go outside the bubble yeah and so even though granted ultimately we all got covered we we kept it at bay for very long and it didn't become like a super spreader where people outside of our little world got it we were able to like recover and come back because they were so serious about like you guys got it because of a guy that violated exactly like if that guy didn't do that you would have never got well you might have got it anyway we wouldn't have got it then that year yeah i got it in going to an arena i was doing arenas by the time i got it it was like listen yeah but you have a different crowd joe like i was like let's go come on it's enough is enough is enough like come on let's see what happens uh i i can't i can't thank dave chappelle enough for making a space during that time for all of us to do our thing this the podcast that is premiering today that i've been working on for two years its inception like the beginning of it was in yellow springs ohio during that summer
camp i mean it was march 20 when i got this deal with luminary to do a show that followed me around the world as i covered boxing right it was the perfect idea for me i was excited we signed the paperwork everything second week of march and needless to say by the fourth week of march there was no boxing world to follow me around in there was no fights that were going to be able to be had everything everybody's calendar was getting eliminated and i had this deal for a show that i clearly couldn't do and dave created this space in yellow springs these shows that attracted like the brightest biggest stars from the comedy world and all these different industries and i decided like well it wasn't so much a decision as kind of an epiphany like what am i missing from the life i've been having my entire adult life since i was a teenager i've been in wild card boxing gym i was shooting sparring sessions i was covering fights i've been talking to boxers that's what my life driving force has been about and in a matter of a month that's just taking from me completely so what is it that i i miss most what is it i had to like start to do some introspection about what that part of my life meant and i realized it was about the fight in the fighter that i'm talking to with even though the context is boxing i think the thing that separates my interviews maybe from other ones is that in addition to speaking about the opponent in the ring i often take a look at what that person is hurtling internally like what got them to this place to even be able to climb through the ropes and challenge for or defend a championship and the interesting ways that people get there is entirely part of what makes me fascinated about combat sports and athletes from all walks of combat sports but boxing is
my my passion right so i ended up surrounded by friends and associates that were incredibly accomplished at all different walks of life a lot of them were comedians because they put on a comedy show but he attracts people from all over the world all different kinds of you know disciplines and i said you know that fight that's in these boxers these these life hurdles well that exists in everybody and the people who whose names we know whose accomplishments we can list well they've won their fight or at least they're constantly besting whatever their hurdle is and i want to talk about i want to learn about the fighting people outside the ring so because of what dave did because he was able to create this magnet of excellence in yellow springs ohio i was able to sit down with these people and they were so gracious to talk to me about that very same subject the fight inside them and i created this show you'll love the title till this day yeah we talked about it for people who don't know why till this day is interesting there's a very famous interview that you did with deontay wilder where you were trying to get deontay to elaborate on things and he for whatever reason because he was upset and he was you know getting ready for a fight and fired up he had decided that he was going to like explain to you yeah what it's like to struggle as a black man in america that till this day you're like yeah i know i'm just trying to get you to talk and and so he's like yelling at you that we're going through this to this day and you're like yeah yeah you know it's funny because now in with this a bit longer view of it and the events that happened uh the other night i got a lot of death threats from that like you know i joke about the celebrities and [ __ ] though wait a minute you got death threats from that interview that you did with dion are you kidding me yes absolutely uh you know
i had to take that in stride because i didn't take it that seriously right but to this day i still get inboxed like you know threats people people took that moment to think that i was some kind of uncle tom or i was you know trying to pretend as though slavery didn't exist or something ridiculous like that you were just it was so obvious that you were just trying to get him to expand on his feelings like he said that's his face we talked about it the last time you were here but that that interview was but for people who don't like it's like now i mean i'm the renowned uncle tom like that one moment can define how somebody sees you forever and if they it's not about me right like they hate whatever they believe and uncle tom represents to them right and then they think okay well in that moment man that guy he is that so i am gonna aim all my negativity and and hatred and visceral [ __ ] comments his way yeah and it takes one [ __ ] that's not me like like what whatever this person's built up in his head about who i am or what i mean to him i have no idea that's happening right and if that guy decides that he wants to actually do what he fantasizes about how am i going to stop that how am i going to see that kind of yeah that's the problem with the world we're living in so my yeah my last 36 hours really i've tried to subside the anger and and certainly best the fear but it's about like gratitude it's like we can't take for granted anything i can't take you for granted like the the like i think i made a post um when i got a job at pro bell which is a huge like moment in my career right like i got to be the in the ring interviewer post fight as i said the way you do it is a beacon to me like i love that aspect of your work and that is my claim to fame that's my passion and i had an opportunity to do it on this platform i'm still doing it but when i when i got the opportunity i thought you know you put me on this show the first time
around about this till this day controversy if you want to call it that and it gave me another level of notoriety it gave it provided other opportunities for me because you were gracious enough and generous enough with your platform to do that well you know not long ago people are furious with you some people still so i'm fine with everybody you know having their opinion or being pissed everybody gets an opportunity to do that there's a right to do that but talking about taking joe rogan out of the sphere of conversation idiots talking about kill joe rogan that's my friend that's a good guy it doesn't matter whether or not you agree with everything he says it doesn't matter whether or not you even want him to be on air what matters is that he cancel you can if he has an idea you don't like and you have a better idea you think he's [ __ ] and you have the real [ __ ] do your own experience i came here today because i wanted to be a part of the joe rogan experience not anybody in the comment section not anybody in their uh think pieces not anybody in their editorials i'm here for the joe rogan experience and that has been an incredibly wonderful experience for me why should you or anybody else be able to take that from me i think people think too much about why you know like you think the people think too much about this idea that you can stop someone from talking and that's the whole idea about cancer culture right is that you're going to remove someone from the conversation you can and it's worked for some people i mean rightly so for people like harvey weinstein right they they that's that's canceled culture in its best form right that's the best version i've never heard harvey weinstein's perspective on anything he's a serial rapist yeah let's remove him from society but we didn't find out about that until people were outraged and until ronan farrow wrote that piece and until because that was like an open
secret in hollywood so like that was the non-cancer culture there was a let people slide culture so like look he's gonna help us and get us an academy award and he's a yeah he's just come back but like you know like thank him when you win your oscars okay well i make a serious distinction between someone's actions harm other people for sure as opposed to someone's opinions that you have to go somewhere to uh no no no obviously obviously but what i'm saying is like there with this is a weird time in terms of people being able to express themselves it's so unique and unprecedented that untold millions of people at any time can pick up their phone and go onto facebook or go on to twitter or whatever and just start putting your opinion out there going to youtube make a video you know i was listening on the radio rahim he was on he talks too [ __ ] loud and like you know and people and you could read that and you could listen to that and that can affect you and that's why you have to be careful about you know people talk about your diet like in terms of like what you eat well you have to have a good diet in terms of what you take in mentally as well it's very important and that's why you don't want to read comments because you're taking in complaints and you can only take in so many complaints before you start internalizing them and thinking like man maybe i do suck or maybe uh you know and you maybe you get a little defensive i've seen a lot of people get ultra defensive and get really weird because of reading too many comments it's like you should do your own personal auditing you should be objective and introspective and think about yourself and your life and who you are and what you say and how how it affects other people but you can't you can't take all those negative things in too much it's like it's it's like drinking too much alcohol or smoking too much cigarettes it's not good for you and you can't take for granted though the the freedom of being able to express one's views and be authentic i'm not trying to shut down the comment section by any stretch of the imagination when it gets violent
though yeah when it gets to pointing out a individual for harm which right i mean excuse me if i'm uh ill-informed but i don't believe i've ever heard you do no i've certainly never heard dave do that so you guys to me are models of what it is to be free men in society like to you have to work hard to defend this space yes and you have some responsibility to not abuse that space yes but it's the joe rogan experience and for people to put on you that anything you say has to be according to royal truth and this space here where you get to talk about your experience and and get from others theirs has to all of a sudden meet the standard of nightly news the nightly news doesn't hold up to its own standards right there's they're completely full of [ __ ] and they're completely bought and paid for by advertising money so it was in the absence of that in the absence of credibility on the nightly news where we were all supposed to be able to go get the unvarnished truth and the actual facts then we find other spaces that are more a place where we are receptive to the messages that are being put in places where it resonates with people it makes sense because the person seems like they're just a normal human being they're not a human being that's been hired to say a certain thing a certain way because that's the way the network profits the most right that's their job though that's where we're supposed to be able to go and get those truths where we're supposed to be able to go and get actual facts not to people debating what a fact is but being told the truth if though in the vacuum uh that the absence of that credibility creates well then you'll find all kinds of spheres of people who will give you the truth that is most agreeable to your pre disposition yeah that's dangerous yeah it's um that's their fault well it's it's a lot of it is their fault but what they don't understand is when you spend so much time talking about a
person in negative light you're gonna make a certain percentage of those people investigate whether or not you're accurate and then those people are going to go hey the show's pretty good i mean i've talked about this before but i gained two million subscribers during the whole cancellation time that's a lot of people yeah and it's it's only helped because it's not true it's like if you listen to what i'm i'm not like a minister of disinformation trying to tell people like don't don't get vaccinated don't take medicine the pharmaceutical companies are out to get you no but i'm being honest i'm being honest about what they have done in the past i'm being honest about the the dangers of certain medications of being honest about expressions of free speech and like what it means to me and how important it is that people be able to express themselves this is a it's an amazing time that a person like me can have this much of a voice and i do pay attention to it and i'm aware of it that it's unusual i'm aware of it i'm aware of it that's a tremendous responsibility but all i can do is do what got me here and that's just be me be me be honest try to be caring try to be kind try to be as as uh generous as i can as nice as i can that's it yeah and also you're on a consistent basis telling people go do your own research if that's what you you know well tell people to read the the the actual pertinent information you know that that's actually a joke now like do your own research you know i did my own research like no you should trust the experts well some not anymore you know it depends on what you're talking about should you trust the experts on nuclear physics yes should you trust the experts and it's as soon as money gets involved this whole trust the experts things gets [ __ ] weird because we know that people have influenced people to make certain statements that do not jibe with the facts and if you look at all that accurately and you say you know trust the experts like which ones which experts you want to trust the experts in math yes those guys can't lie because
you could do the work everyone can see it it's math it's as clear as it gets trust the experts in ancient history sure as long as they agree if they don't agree with each other then who's which experts are like i was just reading this thing about clovis um yesterday and i send it to a friend of mine who is an expert in it and i said hey what do you think about this article and he sent it to another guy so these people are like passing these experts are passing this article around like here's the problems with this you know like the idea is that um people were in north america thousands of years earlier than they thought and this is like pretty much established now that's true because they keep finding bones and and all sorts of artifacts that are far older than they thought they were then a new article came out just a few days ago about how re-examining clovis first and that might be accurate and so i sent this article to these other guys let's say well who's right is it that people were here 30 thousand forty thousand years ago or is it the clovis people were the first people and so they're all breaking this down so experts don't even agree this [ __ ] guy who wrote this article is an expert and i sent it to some other experts and they sent it to other experts and they're all going so like when you say trust the experts on what right and science is an ongoing study right that's part of it to continue to question and there are things that are proven to work and things that have been established over years that we can rely on i think the part that makes it so confusing is what we spoke about earlier the lack of credibility of institutions yes what institutions do you trust 100 that's exactly what it is because when when you just trust the people that are in power then you get a dictatorship you can't just trust anyone who has authority that's nonsense you have to know why they know what they know and how did they come about and are they being influenced and do they have an agenda and is there do they have a vested interest in this being accurate as opposed to that is there a financial gain involved in it and oftentimes there is and that's that's real that's that's that's real human beings and most people
know that and when you can get people to just [ __ ] step in line and just listen to authority the problem with that is that doesn't go away they keep that [ __ ] attitude and that's the attitude that they have in all these communist dictatorships where the people are under the boot of these [ __ ] evil thugs how did that come about they came about because they just had to listen they have to listen and so free speech yeah free form you being able to say that without having some totalitarian government come down on your head or even people in the sphere of cancer culture trying to eliminate the show from existence is the difference between yeah it may be a cliche it may even be a punchline do your own research but you have the option to listen to what you think is credible and juxtapose that with what might not be in line with your current beliefs how much you invest in that in in that investigation that's entirely up to the character and the desire for you to know the truth true you can't police that in other people but the opportunity for them to get that information can't be hindered don't you think it's also a factor of no one has enough time no one like no one has enough time like if you really want to find out about like the [ __ ] the the spanish flu from 1918 do you have the time how many people have the time dude the time to research like the waves and how people started wearing masks and when people died and where it came from did it actually come from spain or did it actually come from america they think no but it's the [ __ ] time so even things that are happening right now like when they're talking about uh oh you know we've got to stop being so dependent on foreign oil [ __ ] i gotta go research foreign oil i gotta start thinking about how how bad was fracking some people say fracking's the devil other people say frackie's necessary it's gonna [ __ ] up some spots but it's gonna eliminate our dependence on foreign oil [ __ ] i gotta research this i gotta go and find out who's right who's wrong i've had experts that had completely different opinions on climate change and it's exhausting you know i'm like
who's right one guy is saying that solar and wind can take care of a lot of our energy needs and we need to optimize those and we need if we if we don't do that we're [ __ ] and here's all these examples of pollution and this is what the carbon's doing to the atmosphere and then there's another guy that goes here's like a thousand year chart of how the temperature of the earth just keeps going up and down we're on course it has an effect but it has a small effect and there's a lot of people that are profiting off freaking everybody out and the control that they're going to get from some sort of climate crisis the same as they would get it from a war crisis the same as a health crisis if they have the opportunity to close in and get tighter and tighter control on your actions and what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do then it's easier to be a dictator because there's a lot of people that out there out there that don't like the idea of people voting for things they would rather just run things they would rather just tell you what to do and in certain cases they can do that in cases of war in cases of any sort of extreme medical emergency in cases of any sort of civil disobedience they can impose martial law like that stuff scary that stuff's scary because then you have an incentive for those things to take place so you can control things and then even after you're done controlling things you could allow things to relax a little bit but you have more control over the people now than you did a year ago two years ago five years ago before the crisis so what they did with 911 i don't think that the united states caused 911 but i most likely think i most certainly think that they used 911 to get the patriot act through the a lot of stuff that was in the patriot act existed before this long before 9 11. they couldn't get it through there's a lot of ideas they do that with bills they shove a bunch of [ __ ] in there and you're like wait a minute why does it say things about crosswalks in a thing about you know something that's totally unrelated why is it do you guys have a a deal with the crosswalk union like why does it why do they why do they have a that's a bad example but why do they have uh provisions in in certain bills that have
nothing to do with what the title of the bill is and the life of those provisions that may long outlive the crisis at hand yes forever like the patriot act like the tsa one guy tries to blow his shoes off we have to take our shoes off forever like what is that what [ __ ] and it just it's forever and it just keeps going and just you don't when you lose power when you lose power over your decision to make uh choices and whether or not you want to do this or do that and what you're allowed to do and freedom once you lose that you don't get it back you never get more freedom you always get a little less and you go we're still better off than haiti we're still better off than cuba we're still better off than china we're still what the [ __ ] reality is we're not better off in terms of our ability to make decisions for ourselves than we were before they impose these things we're not as free in terms of government surveillance like the idea that the government could be looking out for terrorists and stop terrorists yeah that would be good that would be nice it would be nice if you you could prevent a terrorist attack okay well the only way you can do that raheem is we're gonna have to look at all your emails and read all your text messages whether you like it or not and listen to every call you ever make no but they do that they can do that why can they do that they can do that under the guise you might be a terrorist which is crazy that's like the ultimate guilty until proven innocent it's like 330 million people are guilty until proven innocent and you gotta check everybody's text well that's the kind of thing that happens when they get a little bit of control and it's a normal human thing man and you can get people agree you might even get me to say yes in a moment of crisis okay it's 9 12. and if you need to check my emails to make sure that uh you know aircrafts are safe or i can go into the mall without getting blown up check the [ __ ] emails please and my neighbors too exactly but now it's 20. 22. but what if it's you are criticizing what if trump gets in office again he has this power and what if it's you you're writing something very critical of trump so he starts
investigating you and [ __ ] with you because he finds out it's you because he's looking at your tweets he's looking at your text messages even though he's not supposed to know it's your account he's looking at he's looking at your phone he's seeing who you're calling on a daily basis like if that that's what a dictator can do and i'm not even saying that it's trump but imagine it's someone else imagine kim jong-un kim jong-un runs america you know you got to think like that's a real human being in 2022. i know he doesn't live in america and i know it's different over here i know we're heavily armed but that that's still a human being in 2022 that if you tweeted badly about him you're a dead man you're dead he's gonna [ __ ] kill you a hundred percent he kills his family members right right he has them assassinated that's a real guy like you have to think that's a possible pattern of behavior that human beings follow it's wild [ __ ] dude right and this entire government of course is for the people by the people so whatever pattern human behavior follows so shall government have you ever read um what they said about kim jong-un's first day of no kim jong-un yeah kim jong-il's first day of playing golf no ali ali sadiq told me about this i thought he was [ __ ] with me until we we started reading it it is one of the craziest things you've ever read in your life first day playing golf dude he's the greatest golf player the world has ever known like a god of golf that is kind of trumpian dude he's no no kim shot 38 under including 11 holes in one at the seven thousand seven hundred yard championship course at pyongyang in the very first golf round of his life according to the north korean state media it was 1994 when kim was 52 years old even more impressive kim stood just five foot three yet he was able to overpower a chorus as long as any ever played in major championship history who knows how good kim could have been if he had taken up the sport earlier who knows how many times he bested 38 under in the 17 years since his first round
how crazy is that i mean come on joe this has to remind you of trump's first like health report oh oh boy yeah i don't know i mean to your previous plan i think you know tremendous health yeah the the healthiest president ever the healthiest president they've ever had the thing that freaks me about him is he didn't age in the white house like everybody else does biden has aged so much in a year yeah i don't think he was worried about as much i don't think you're worried about [ __ ] i think he's watching fox news they like me they love me you know yeah i think you know just a finer point on your previous topic maybe i don't know is an acceptable answer i don't know what fracking is going to do ultimately to the earth and it is acceptable right yeah you would think but it doesn't seem to be an acceptable answer nobody wants to admit that you know i don't know i know some things oh this seems to make sense oh math supports that that seems provable we've had an experience here that we can point to that makes this information credible but do i know enough to save for certainty and game out what happens in 20 years if we take this process no no i don't so we have to make some decisions based on the unknown the problem if you say i don't know is someone will come along and say i know and they might not necessarily know and then another net expert right next to him like he doesn't know he's wrong and we need to debate yeah well it's just so many things to pay attention to man there's so much to pay attention to you know it's just it's a strange time man it's a strange time because there's so much information but you only have so much storage you only have so much room in your head you don't have so much time yeah you made an interesting point about how much time people have i i'll have to confess that i haven't probably an inordinate amount of time to think about what i think about stuff you have a nice life yeah i've not made my life about my
opinion i'm not like an opinion piece guy nobody is coming to me to hear my perspective necessarily but this show that i just debuted this till this day till this day is the first time it made me think about why i do things which is how that show came about and talking to people about what they see as their opponent because that's how i that's how i like phrase it identify the first question i ask anybody before we go on aaron there's no pre-interview there's no setup i ask him one question to prepare name identify or somehow describe the opponent in your life what is the thing the hurdle that you've had to best or overcome consistently as adversity to who you want to be or what you have become give me that in a bite size or a a noun and i've talked to 17 completely different people i haven't heard an answer repeated once wow and so when people say you never know what people are going through you know what somebody's struggle is boy i never knew that more truly than i have in experiencing this show that i've done think about that that question asking people and how few people ever have that conversation with another person right most of the people you meet when you're when you're working with them they're going throughout their day you you never try to break down how what was the hardest thing for them to overcome to get to where they're at yeah these are my these are my friends most of the people on the show are my friends or at least you know associates i've had for years people i think i know they're public people people you we think we know as audience members are fans why these people are just like everybody else yeah and that they have internal struggles they have things going on that you would never think of as much as you think you know them and i learned a lot just from having the experience
of other people's lives and and the lens through which they see their own life i i got to talk about john stewart who was there the other night at the at the bowl you know um one thing that mortified me because i look up to him so much as an interviewer in particular was that the kind of information that we're talking about him being at the forefront of that information war when he was the most trusted news source he was in america on a comedy show that was satire but because the institution was trusted because the guy was pointing out the the song and dance show of the nightly news and the political spin we could trust him he felt like he lost that battle he felt like well they won i didn't have enough of an impact if any impact at all i was shocked by that i thought like not only did you win but i had no idea internally he would have thought anything else but that's how true he was to the cause like because it's still going on because there is still a fox news because there is still disinformation happening on all news channels he feels like he didn't accomplish he should have stayed in the game he should have stayed in the game look the guy's back and doing his show now but when he was the host of the daily show he was the [ __ ] man it was i think maybe it was too much maybe he got worn out maybe it was like you know he felt like he'd done enough he wanted to do something different take some time off or something like that but um i think you get better at something the more you do it you know i think it's important that there is a way there's a way to distribute comedy uh and have it wrapped up in the news and it actually is informative and helpful and that's one of the things the daily show did when stewart was running it it actually was he's so likable and it's he's so smart and so obvious that he's smart that you hear him talk about stuff and you go
oh yeah like it resonates makes sense i think he's so true to that mission yeah that maybe maybe he cared even too much like it must be a tireless fight to feel like you're the only voice yeah and have this platform that every other nightly news cable news show should be doing what you're doing and instead you're like fighting them every night and having to point out how terrible they are at doing the thing they're most importantly tasked with so if you see that as a constant struggle and they seem to be unaffected by it ultimately even though people are listening to the daily show and understanding some of the song and dance about mass media it's still not changing the bottom line at least from his perspective it might just be exhausting man i'm sure it's exhausting one of the things that's come out of this the the corporate news not being trusted is the rise of these independent news platforms that's what's interesting to me what's really interesting to me is watching how these like online youtube people and online sub stacked journalists are changing the way people get their information because there's certain people that have ethics as a journalist as a reporter as someone who's trying to explain the truth the best they know and their ethics are unflappable and they they happen to be on youtube or they happen to be on sub stack and people find them and they're gravitating towards them now and so those other ones they don't work anymore they're just it's just it's it's it's like school lunches like you could do better than a [ __ ] school lunch [ __ ] i know what food is you know and that's what this is like the the nightly news on a lot of these [ __ ] networks it's like a school lunch cable news is like school lunch like this is edible but it sucks i'm all about that there's no secret my career began on youtube yeah i couldn't break into the the big market i wasn't being sad at the table or the ring side on you got to make your own market because there's too many there's there's not enough seats at
the table right if you think about how many major fights are going on on a daily basis there's not enough seats you know but there's also not enough opportunity i think especially when i was getting in it was thought of to be like an old white man's job or an ex-fighter right you're not one of those two you you want to broadcast or that's established that has the right you know the resume that you're looking for and the the salty gray hair you know the porcelain skin or you have had to have been a fighter but the people like myself who are in the box gym shooting sparring sessions no fighters personally i was training never thought i would be a boxer but so much passion for the sport that i felt i had a personal experience a connection to it i know the sport i can i can do this job and i'm young and energetic and they're able to handle a broadcast right but they're not going to they would never hire you they would never hire you but that's okay because like it's better this way because if they hired you they would never allow you to be you if someone just hired you straight up with no youtube videos no nothing they would try to get you to be like hey i'm you know bobby mcphee and i'm over here with all the norton you're acting normal you're acting like you what you think a reporter is it's no it's not it's not an accident that almost all those old-timey reporters talked like old-timey reporters you know they all had like a pattern they had to follow you couldn't just be yourself and you couldn't just focus on things that you think are interesting like sparring sessions like the stories about people's struggles like stuff that you actually think is interesting the beautiful thing about something like something like youtube or you know any kind of platform that's putting up videos and audios it's like so many people can contribute and you can find those unusual voices right because there's a lot of them in mma journalism too i could ask the questions that no network would ever permit me to ask you could ask the questions that you want answers to and so then the audience gets engaged with this it's not like
some cookie-cutter [ __ ] question and you give your cookie-cutter [ __ ] answer to the reporter no you guys are having a conversation right you're getting to that's what people love they love to like hear like like when i talk to mike tyson he's explaining to me his childhood and then what it was like to meet cuss and like what the experience was like learning boxing and being hypnotized by this like guy who's a master of psychology as well as a master boxing coach who just happens to be a [ __ ] hypnotist who just happens to be dying who just happens to be at the end of his life and he's got the best prodigy he's ever experienced and this guy will do anything and he's ready to go and he's [ __ ] super talented at 13. like holy [ __ ] this is it it's like his whole life built to that moment like all the work with floyd patterson and jose torres and all that stuff that built to that moment where he met mike tyson and as he leaves this earth mike tyson becomes the greatest heavyweight of all time at that moment mike tyson smashing people at that moment mike tyson's destroying marvis frazier mike tyson is knocking out larry holmes at that moment in every bit of work every single day every round yes every other fighter before he left this earth he got to experience the culmination of all his wisdom and being imparted to this one like lump of incredibly talented silly buddy you're not shaking this guy you're not gonna get that perspective in a regular cookie cutter interview you're gonna have to that guy's got to be able to just talk right you can't sum that up in 13 and a half minutes yeah for a commercial break and you got to let mike tyson smoke weed you have to eat how do you have to let combat athletes smoke i don't know if anybody shouldn't be allowed to smoke weed well doesn't it still ban in the nfl yeah i mean as far as i know i was just reading something i was just reading something about these nfl guys that are pissed off because marijuana is banned there and it's a pain reducing drug right and how many drugs can they use to reduce pain that are far more dangerous addictive destructive than
marijuana oh look at this nfl players no longer face the possibility of being suspended from games over positive tests for any drug not just marijuana so this is new under february 1st 2022 under a collective bargaining agreement instead they will face a fine the threshold for what constitutes a positive thc test has also increased under the deal but even then i mean it's like well that's fine it's not they're not it's not permitted you're still right yeah you listen i don't want to smoke a million dollar joint what's the fine right nfl players are balling that you have to hit them hard to make them change their way so you have to hit them with a big fine but if like uh like you shouldn't be high playing maybe but don't basketball players love to play high they love to play jamie hit me with this yeah oh yeah they all play high right i mean at all but i would imagine that it's like anything else that requires a feel you know like there's a thing about you feel things like jiu jitsu players love to get high it's very common because you feel movement better you feel balanced you feel do you think thc is a performance enhancement drug yes really yeah it is it is for someone you can't even hit the pads high but that's just you man everybody's different everybody's different when it comes to the way alcohol affects them people are different it's just i guarantee there are people that have a positive net benefit and i'm one of them when they do certain things while high marijuana enhances my pool game greatly marijuana when i play pool i'm one ball better this is not like a [ __ ] pool assessment i'll explain that 85 percent of nba players smoke weed yes i don't smoke weed now but there was a day like in my you know i smoke weed a lot i think i've hit my threshold which is why i can't smoke anymore one more joint i'm a lunatic like i'm gonna go like i'm a your basket case you're fine i would hate to get you high right now and prove you wrong terrible i got mike
tyson weed too this is mike tyson but when i did which was for you know a decent amount of time when i was you know young and really able to train crazy i could smoke after training and it helped me with like the pain the muscle pain the joint pain the swelling all that [ __ ] great i'm having a hard time understanding how being thc high yeah helps a combat athlete it didn't make my reflexes faster and my i wasn't able to focus better i understand your experience but for me when i hit the bag when i'm when i'm high i feel better i feel like i move better i feel like my balance is better i feel like there's maybe some little subtle things that i wasn't thinking about before that all of a sudden they're at my the forefront because it makes you focus on a single thing it's really good for that and when um that single thing is something like martial arts that i've been doing my whole life there's something about being high that gives me like a new lens for it a new lens where you like feel the way your body's moving you like feel like your hips extending you feel your abs contracting you feel when it's the time like what's the timing in it you feel things more maybe my maybe i should push off my toes more maybe i feel my toes more like i feel things more instead of just going on autopilot because i've done it my whole life now all of a sudden i'm thinking and i'm feeling stuff it's great for stretching for stretching it's the greatest thing of all time you get super duper high and just you feel your fibers just extending uh ah you know what it feels amazing i take you at your point i think this has everything to do with the type of person you are yeah i am not feeling anything in a fight in fact that is the almost the point of fighting it's a meditative state like i i'm i can fight drunk if i can fight drunk but if i had to choose a thousand times uh over i would rather be a little buzz on a drink than a little buzz on a joint because i'm not thinking about anything right nothing's creeping into my mind like it is entirely just the action of what i'm doing i somehow i
think that helps me deaden the pain even so maybe i'm more of a sensitive person and if you get me like in my head like weed does i'm starting to think about too many things well i'm in my head overthinking it the thing is when you don't get high a lot and then you get high then you're in your head and you're like oh [ __ ] but i'm always in my head because i'm always high yeah i get high all the time so it's like your default position so you have do you know what it's like to train not high maybe that's the thing no i trained parents no no no i train not high most of the time david goggins said something to me once and [ __ ] i've never been able to get in my goddamn head he goes i don't train listen to the [ __ ] music he goes you train listening to [ __ ] music then you need that music that's right because that shit's a crutch ain't no [ __ ] music there ain't no music out there in the world [ __ ] yeah i think you just saw my custom auto and uh he says that he said that to me and i think about that when i want to smoke a joint hit the bag i think about that when i want to like listen to music and lift weights or especially cardio there's something about boring dull ass cardio with no stimulation at all like i used to love cardio like listening to books listening you know but if you just got to do cardio just your breathing that's such a different thing just breathing just staring at the clock thinking about your life knowing that you have 40 minutes to go that's what running is to me but at least you're going somewhere lisa you're actually running you're going somewhere there's something about cardio machines you know when you're like [ __ ] just staring at the screen on an elliptical knowing you have 45 more minutes of this nonsense and you can't even listen to music no music there's no [ __ ] music out there in the real world i never thought of a an uh in any way i was gonna be a professional athlete like i never thought i would compete right but i started boxing in fifth grade there's like a guy in my neighborhood that had boxing equipment in his like garage and i would go in there and he trained fighters now i wish i knew more
then to like remember who was there and if this guy ever became like a real boxing coach of any type but it was such a childhood memory of mine like where this whole idea started and the fact that i never thought i would do anything for a living that didn't involve talking like i knew that was my thing like i could speak right um that my godfather was my first like adult trainer like when i was like 19 and he's like you're not training to compete with athletes you're training to win a fight now boxing is your discipline of choice but the fight you're gonna have won't be in the ring on thursday at eight o'clock as the two men have decided it's gonna be at three o'clock in the morning after you leave a club in the parking lot with some [ __ ] idiot and you're gonna be drunk too and you're gonna be tired so that's how we're gonna train and so yes what yes i would leave clubs and i get 22 23 years old my best friend at that time was bo keem woodbine we both dana bratton trained both of us and we would go from the club from the bar from the party to the gym and spar oh my god train so if i were boxing in a ring i'd want to be sober but if i'm in the street where any of my real fights are going to take place i'm probably better [ __ ] up that's how we trade we train to win fights completely trash that's hilarious that's hilarious that's a funny way to do it yeah did you ever learn any martial arts other than boxing uh i learn no try yes judu judo judo judo was the first thing dislocated my elbow in the in the least like masculine way possible you know how they throw you and you're supposed to slap the mat so i got thrown i went to slap too early oh you landed on hyper knifed my elbow oh chihuahua yeah so that got me out of judo i love martial arts like any kid my time i was a bruce lee fan like big time of course so then i wanted uh jeet kune do where there was no place to learn that so i
tried taekwondo and i loved the kicking of it all but to be honest i didn't have the money like my you know my mom wasn't gonna be able to afford to send me to any like martial arts class and pay for the the ghee and all the stuff and then i go uh consistently right so part of it was the money another thing was i just wasn't able to be committed enough to make it worth the extra effort to spend that money whereas the boxing it's a poor man's sport it's like all you need is some old guy in a neighborhood with a hanging bag and a couple hours on his uh schedule every day and so that ended up being what i did i i like i respect [ __ ] out of martial arts man i want like the mental um focus that it takes and the discipline to stay in a particular style or another is what is more attractive to me maybe the mixed martial arts and then that just might just be because of under my understanding of it right but what i like about boxing also is the finite nature of it it's no disrespect to mma like that is a discipline unto itself i don't have any personal experience with really but the the limited amount of resources that a boxer has the fewest things you can do and the other guy has those very same few skills and so that's how i see the science of it the chess match the the game of millimeters really in split seconds because both guys are proficient and they only have these finite amount of tools to work with the combination of those two things colliding is what really fascinates me about the execution of boxes that's what fascinates me as well it's specialists people that are doing like that's what fascinates me about watching jiu jitsu matches too because of watching jiu jitsu matches those are two experts they're not kicking each other punching each other they're just doing this one thing at the highest level possible right yeah did you see i'm sure you saw shakira stevenson of course holy [ __ ] of course this guy he's on another level that's a great example of that because he's fighting valdez who is uh undefeated as well and uh a real
[ __ ] world champion elite fighter shakur just put on a show right and just show that with his training his execution his technique was superior his strategy was superior his ability to close the distance and move just out of the way when the punches were coming to him they were coming like right here it was like it was just touching his face right it was wild millimeters millimeters millimeters and then he fired back and he was firing back and landing flush and it was genius it was just genius [ __ ] to watch that's what i love about boxing i mean people say yo you can't do that if somebody leg kicks you you're right you can't do that that way if someone leg kicks you or someone takes you down you're right you can't do that but if that if you want to see the highest expression of that of using your hands you have to have only guys using their hands and that's when you get these super elite striker right that's like somebody saying you know i'm on a motorcycle and i'm running an obstacle course you can't do that in a car right well no because i'm in a on a [ __ ] motorcycle that's why i can do that but that's why people would not recommend boxing as a martial art to practice if you're drunk after a bar and you you know you're going to like i would tell you like learn how to take people down learn how to trip people listen joe you're not gonna get an argument from me there as far as like street fighter the more things you can have at your disposal to end the fight as quick as possible the better you're going to do it's also your hands break so easy hands break so easy man you swing wrong catch a guy on a forehead and you're [ __ ] right i i mean i'm not shy about i wouldn't want to fight an a mixed martial artist at the level of a boxer that i am however good i am if i were if there were a guy equally as good at mixed martial arts as i am at boxing in a street fight he's going to win i mean you know what i mean i would if if we're only left with our body resources i now i might pick up a bottle i might hit this guy with a brick but
i understand that the more you know you're able to do yeah the more quickly you can end the fight and in the street that's what it's all about in the fight as quickly as possible but what we're both talking about is that if you are only doing one thing that one thing if you see like imagine if that's how they played baseball if baseball also featured tackling you know baseball also has fights now baseball also uh you have to do it on skates like what like it's too many things you're going to lose if you have one thing just one thing like boxing you get to see the best expression of it one thing like jiu jitsu you could see the best expression of it right and like that was uh one of the reasons why you know jordan burroughs is no olympic gold medalist elite super super elite wrestler like top of the food chain and had been given some uh opportunities to fight mixed martial arts but he's like look i'm an elite wrestler that's what i do i can learn all those things and i can probably take any you know regular mma player down at will right he's not good at wrestling but would he want to leave this thing that he specializes in that he's at the top of the food chain at right and could he actually get to the point of taking them down for instance the mma guy that i'm you know theoretically fighting at this bar well he's gonna have to get through the jab he's gonna have to get through the you know the two-piece he gets inside i'm probably in a lot of trouble but the the finite nature of the sport you know in the in the context of professional athletes in their sports that's what i love about boxing i appreciate in the street it's a mixed martial art like landscape the reality is like when people are talking about like boxers um mma fighters making the cross over to boxing there's no no one can compete there's not one mma fighter who is going to be a world champion at boxing unless they 100 dedicate all of their time to it for a long period of time and then you're going to have to make your way but to to to be able to beat the elite of the elite in their own given sport
unless you're some rare outlier freak of an athlete with one punch death power with [ __ ] eight-ounce 10-ounce gloves on that's there's not a lot of those guys i don't see that ever happening i mean even if we had a bo jackson of that would be a good example that would be a good example a bo jackson a freak super freak athlete yes and he was that herschel walker in both cases though there is a team surrounding him that could put him in the best role in that team sport but because each mma and boxing are such individual sports yeah the amount of skill he would have to have in each context i just don't think one man could get the the way you stretch the way your muscles have to work and contract in boxing and then in mma and they don't it's not the same so you can't have all of those yeah defense is different yeah for a guy though people sometimes take for granted how smart fighters have to be i'm not talking about you know uh your mathematician skills or how well-versed you are in history but i don't know any fighter that at an elite level that isn't [ __ ] brilliant in the ring 100 and so you're using your mind to make choices and decisions and react exactly if people think that the only information or the only intelligence that's worthwhile is intelligence so you could recite information that's crazy that's not true that's yeah it's it's absurd yeah and so to diminish the idea that these fighters are intelligent is a is a huge insult and probably means you're not that [ __ ] smart well it's just a lack of objectivity because too many people equate intelligence with education to i mean it's not that education doesn't enhance intelligence it most certainly does but you have a lot of people with great minds that don't wind up using them well there's a lot of people out there because just because you have a great ability to do something doesn't mean you ever do it there's a lot of people that are incredible natural athletes that never get into sports you know i know people that are like ridiculously physically gifted and they
just don't do anything with it they just don't care they're not motivated so that could be the same with intelligence it could be the same with a lot of things and so my point for saying that only was that you to have a mind of a fighter that could compete and succeed even at the elite levels and then the mind of a mixed martial artist that could compete and succeed at the elite level and be able to do both simultaneously that would be a next level type of genius the only way someone could do that is they would have to be an elite specialist in one sport and then cross over at a young age that is a possibility and we have had guys like mirko krokop he was an elite kickboxer who made his way into mma and became an elite mma fighter so he was in a sport with no grappling and he learned take down defense he learned grappling to the point we even won some fights by he submitted kevin randleman in a rematch so while he was doing that was he still winning kickboxing competitions he would occasionally fight kickboxing fights in his career but for the most part most of his career up until like the later ages was all mma after he started fighting in pride so it took a few years it took a few years for him to well it didn't take even a few years for him to adapt but he was a very specific kind of kickboxer he was a fast twitch explosive kickboxer and if you have other guys that are more technicians and set things up they'll be more [ __ ] because you want a guy that can explode because he's got to explode to get away from takedowns he's got to explode to close the distance and knock guy out with one punch you might only have one shot like there's guys that are not going to knock you out with one punch but they'll knock you out if they could piece you up for a few rounds and [ __ ] you up and butter you up like julio cesar chavez one of the greatest fighters of all time of all time julio cesar chavez one of the greatest of all time very rarely just stepped forward and smashed a dude with one left hook and flatlined him no he beat the [ __ ] out of you tenderized your ass and then cooked you you mean he was a monster a monster
inside the ring but that's not a style that would translate well to mma because if if someone was if he couldn't stop the takedown and someone was leg kicking him he doesn't have enough power in his hands to just [ __ ] you up with one shot you know like a guy like mike tyson even if he never fought mma if he's fighting against a kickboxer his power was so substantial if you give him those little gloves how are you gonna keep him off of you i don't think you're gonna keep him off you i think a guy like mike tyson could have gotten all the way to wrestlers before he was [ __ ] but okay with that said though and school me because maybe i'm i'm ignorant but how long a career is that if as soon as you get to a wrestler you're in a lot of trouble does he have to get to elite wrestlers or can an average wrestler beat a mike tyson an average wrestler take almost everyone down so the so that's but you would not fight in an mma fight without having some training on wrestling takedown defense and i would assume you would do some live rounds with wrestlers there's no one's just going to jump right in except james tony james tony jumped right there oh well james james totally just hadn't wanted to pay day man he's like look if this dude stands in front of me i'll [ __ ] him up but if he takes me down what am i gonna do like yeah he's talking about like side check kicks and [ __ ] he was making up words and we weren't talking about a prime james tony i'm not sure it would have went like differently if we were but it might have but he's a good example of why i don't want some people to fight in mma because james tony's boxing was beautiful it was amazing james tony's boxing his ability to shoulder roll and then fire back that counter right hand my god he was so smooth man i think we have to accept on both sides of this combat sport equation that these are different disciplines it's not uh it doesn't make you a lesser mma fighter because uh an average boxer can beat you and vice versa right and now if you want to come up with some hybrid sport i mean i've seen people try it i saw something like in the round and i've seen different promoters try to come up with some hybrid but until one of those
things becomes a thing these are just apples and oranges you know it'll be the craziest [ __ ] of all time the craziest [ __ ] of all time if tyson fiore says i'm just going to take a couple years off and i'm going to learn mma and i'm going to come back i'm going to be the mma heavyweight champion of the world i'm going to [ __ ] everybody up uh well i'll tell you this the first fight you won't find a place big enough won't find a place big enough there won't be a second fight you'll have to have the first you have to have the first fight on earth it would just be destination earth everyone is going to want to climb tell me where it's stonehenge we would all go yeah but i think that that would be uh is in terms of what people would be interested in that would be massive yeah but i think with francis and gonna first leg kick you'd be like oh no yeah that's my point oh no what have i done the interest exists but the payoff is is not going to be nearly worth the ticket price it's gonna be the obvious his fight against dylan white was magical it was magical yeah yeah interesting it's interesting to see a guy like that big that tall you know that is uh in his prime you know and and just deciding he's gonna step away which i don't buy for a [ __ ] hot second i don't believe that he could resist the opportunity to fight undisputed and then really retire as undisputed undefeated heavyweight champion of the world if that is presented to him as an option and he truly believes that he can beat any heavyweight in the game including the title holders at the current time so whoever ends up with all the other belts except the wbc i'm certain king's coming up he can beat that person yeah him passing on that opportunity i don't see it happening he's too competitive a guy it's too big a fight and the the seduction of being able to be that one guy that ever did that he can't pass it up i have a theory and this is not my own theory either this is
a theory that somebody labeled at me threw it at me i wish i could remember who told me this but i think it's right they said now he made his intentions known after the fight he brings over francis angano and says we're going to have a hybrid fight with uh these four ounce gloves on that doesn't sound like boxing to me sounds like a hybrid fight what do i need all these [ __ ] boxing commissions and i wouldn't do the wbc and everybody's gonna get their piece the [ __ ] out of here with your piece i quit i retire have someone fight for this [ __ ] title that you know is mine you know it's mine immediately his [ __ ] title right right so what are you gonna do you take it away and give it to somebody else everyone's gonna know tyson fury's still around but he just retired so he doesn't have to pay you he doesn't have to pay the wba or wbc or whoever the [ __ ] has the the title reigns and to your point he made that exact case when he came back the last time he was like you know no one's ever beaten me i'm still a lineal champion yes i'm still the guy to beat and thus far that has remained true no one has yet beaten him so if you put on those little gloves i'm telling you it's going to be an incredible promotion i'll be front row i'll hopefully be sitting right next to you but there is no way that inganu wins that fight if it's just boxing he's going to have a really hard time hitting him the smaller the gloves the more trouble he's in this guy is a gypsy king yeah he are you kidding me he'd just do hand wraps if you let him yeah and it's only gonna make it harder for a goner to stay awake i wouldn't see the fight don't let me [ __ ] it up but i'm trying to tell you this guy's in a lot of trouble but ngano does have the nuclear option though he really does he does have nuclear one punch knockout power he has uh one of his knockouts of alistar over him was one of the most terrifying knockouts i've ever seen in my life he spun alistar's head behind where he's looking at the back of his feet that's how hard he hit him now is he going to land that on tyson fury it's going to be real [ __ ] hard but the problem is what kind of hybrid rules are
we talking about are we allowed to clinch because we're allowed to clinch tyson's in a lot of trouble because if if francis can clinch you and could hold on to you and just punch you in the face in in a way that's illegal in boxing watch this again okay that is very impressive he does that to everybody that's a will smith punch man [Music] it's terrible technique in that regard but he was doing it because he knew the opening was there and was just winging it um that's not gonna work that way on tyson fury absolutely no chance but he's not gonna fight that way and tyson fear either he's fighting that way on alistar because he knows that alistair is you know he's not in his prime he's just gonna just smash him he's trying to make his statement of being the top heavyweight contender in the ufc at the time when he knocked him out i you know last one was here i think what are we talking about pacquiao uh conor mcgregor maybe we were talking about some other mma we were talking about that yeah right they were talking about doing that for a while yeah and i was like i don't want to see it like i'm going on record right now like i have no interest in that i want to see it small little mma gloves and these two behemoths i want to see it but not because it's competitive but because that's how much a sucker i am for a heavyweight knockout yeah but that's it's even if it's not competitive i want to see it be uncompetitive i want to see tyson fury pitch a shutout i want to see him lighten them up i want to see the world i want the world to see what it's like when the best [ __ ] on earth it at his given thing gets to express himself with someone who's trying it out full-blown destruction is what happens unless they allow clinching okay but they don't have to allow it in boxing technically you're not allowed to hold that's right but if you could hold and hit because you can in mma it's called dirty boxing guys grab the back of your
head and smash you into you mean like i mean hold on to you keep you in place see that's what i'm saying if that's that's yeah but that's not in a hybrid rule situation with mma gloves if francis inganu gets tyson fury to agree to let him hold it hit like you could put a guy in a headlock and just 100 oh yeah no yeah see that's what i'm saying okay if you could hold on to a guy if you could just get an overhook yeah just completely tie up that arm and just smash him in the face if you could tie the ba get him in a collar tie where you're holding the back of his neck and you're smashing him in the face that's legal in mma that happens all the time i would say the closest uh you know ironically the closest i've seen uh that in boxing was pretty effective and not entirely illegal uh wide have been klitschko fury like don't forget that was a very clinch heavy fight yeah siri was able to make the fight in dirty boxing and child made everything clinch heavy jab clinch jab right hand clinch but only fury was able to turn that against him yes so even in this scenario i get okay that gives ingano a much better chance because that's something he's skilled at yeah but tyson is not unskilled at that that's how he won all those belts in the first place right true and you know being the gypsy king like those those bare knuckle travelers are known for having fights bare-knuckle yeah that's the whole thing they have a [ __ ] whole culture behind it they have bare knuckle fighting and the gypsies goes back forever that's what i'm saying he's he's he's like you know i'm sure he's had faith don't throw me in that briar pack smaller gloves oh no [Laughter] i would love to see it no matter what and i love francis and gano so i'd like him to get a giant payday and i think it would be an enormous payday oh huge huge it would be spectacular francis ingano versus the gypsy king for the undisputed baddest man on the planet oh my god it'd be so much money that's what i want for francis i want and if it's little gloves man you can't [ __ ] around with little gloves you know
we can't talk about shakur stevens saying without mentioning the other fight on the night like shaquille o'neal still didn't watch that girlfriend it was crazy good but it wasn't the fight of the night you had you still haven't seen it you just said you didn't watch that girl fight the girl fight yeah it's a girl fight right it's a it's a women's boxing world title unification undisputed bout joe but they were they're ladies i heard it's amazing it's fight of the year it's good fight of the year no uh male female distinction but again like i was saying i don't have time to research climate change i don't have time to research fracking sometimes i don't have time to watch every fight you know all right well uh i'm not at all lesser a fan of women's boxing than i am of men's boxing and so the journey that women's boxing has taken so there is a competitive field of women's fighters uh only now i think are we experiencing that like we've had some spikes we've had some stars obviously the coal miners daughter christie martin and laila lee yeah you know um lucia riker the names that we know for sure have had their moments but i don't think at ever was there a time like there is now where there are so many good women able to box and making competitive fields uh clarissa shields is one of the guests on my show and i would have to say in this era she's definitely a pioneer of that her accomplishments in the olympics to gold medals her verbose nature and her ability to back it up makes her a star in the sport and it inspires another generation of women to be like you know this is something that's open to me a lane i can i can pursue these ladies i'm telling you katie taylor and amanda serrano put on as good a boxing match as any two guys could have ever hoped to do it to a sold out man not the theater the actual garden sold out master square garden and every person got value for dollar that night damn so we might be looking at a
new era in boxing where you know you won't be so cavalier about missing a women's fight like that like the these girls are like coming i'm not cavalier i'm just busy i try to watch as much as i can but i've been overwhelmed the last uh few weeks uh but i uh look i was always uh a fan of people that are good uh you know and yeah i don't i don't care if it's uh women or men i like watching girl fights in ufc's but there's a big girl fight this weekend carla esparza versus uh rose nama yunas it's a giant girl fight for the fl the strawweight title yeah i'm pumped about it yeah i watch the i watch as much mma as possible and you know to your point if it were if she was on the other foot i probably missed a lot of very important mma fights that i don't have time you know and also what is going on whose fault is this why is it what's going on i feel like you know why is it that every time there's a big boxing match on a saturday there seems to be just uh coincidentally a big ufc fight on that same saturday well this is may uh cinco de mayo weekend yeah weekend i'm think the boxing always has big fights yeah they always have big fights but here we are again with the ufc fight i know for a fact the ufc scheduled this a long [ __ ] time ago and they have because it's in phoenix too it's not even in vegas or one of the places we go a lot but we have been going to phoenix see there's some places that still had restrictions and so they they stopped going to those places still had restrictions but the ufc puts on a big pay-per-view every month right but is that is i mean maybe i'm making it it's not it's not doing it no listen that would be a dumb thing because why would you ever want to go back against the wall with canelo alvarez having a pay-per-view when you want all those latino fans are you [ __ ] crazy now how much money is that saying that's what you can figure it out but they do it they didn't in spite of that because the one beautiful thing about streaming services like espn plus is that uh if i can just stay well don't talk to me if i can just avoid
spoilers i can get home and i can watch it anytime i want and i play it like it's happening live i love that yes but it's very hard to do if you don't you know but if you get pay-per-view and it's on a dvr you gotta go back you gotta record it you got to play and fast forward through it and get to the spot and yeah a little more complicated because you got to you got to go home you got to watch it on television but if there's no way they would want competition if they could have a big pay-per-view event like this one this weekend yeah and not have it go back to back against canelo alvarez they definitely would that's the best way for business because if you have two options you can't watch both things most people are going to order one they're going to order one that's right most people and if you're a boxing fan canelo alvarez and bevall's a real threat big ass [ __ ] russian light heavyweight real talented undefeated real challenge what you got to do you know it's they're not doing that like it's not a conspiracy it happens so frequently because we put on a lot of shows the ufc puts on a show every [ __ ] month almost every week how about that because ufc has shows the apec center they have their own small arena in vegas and so a lot of the fights like uh all the fights that we did under quarantine [ __ ] we did like a gang of fights at the apec center like world title fights at the apec center with no audience now you know i say that to say this i'm a big proponent of the sunday night boxing match which is not some like bending of the need to give the giveaway saturday night to the mma but in my regard let him [ __ ] have it sunday night is the night for fights that's because you're single and you go out on saturday night everybody else is like look at you know if you're married like you have the boys over have a [ __ ] fight night oh that's hilarious yeah could that possibly be true cause that would be the whole person you want well not only that you're best friends with dave chappelle saturday night you're out doing shows like [ __ ] i don't want to miss the fight
so you're trying to catch the ipad or something oh no i've had a huge blind spot oh man i was so teed up to give my [ __ ] it doesn't make any sense or saturday night's the way to go when people look for entertainment the saturday night's the night you want because friday night like even when we do shows right friday night shows i always tell people like when young guys are opening for me i go you always gotta think that that friday night late show these people are tired man they've been up all day they worked all day they got up at seven o'clock in the morning they [ __ ] busted their ass they commuted they took care of their family they got out finally got out and now they're here and they're [ __ ] exhausted so you can't dilly dally on them 10 o'clock shows you got to come out guns blazing right you know and i think saturday is the entertainment day for people they slept in they don't have to go to church if they're religious they sleep in they wake up finally one [ __ ] day where they just don't have an alarm the one day and then you're hanging out with your buddies hey we're gonna go see chappelle start drinking and then they start drinking and then they're out and then they're out having a great time that's for a fight that's for anything saturday night is the night see i'm thinking because of what you just said there's so much saturday night competition and so many other places you want to be instead in front of a tv if you got tickets to the fight well that's a different thing but if i want to stay home and watch a fight even with my seven closest friends that does not compete with the things i could be doing out in the world when i don't have to wake up in the morning it depends on who's fighting but sunday night if marvin haggar's fighting sugar ray leonard and it's and it's saturday night you want to be in front of that [ __ ] tv and your hands are going to be sweaty you're going to be like holy [ __ ] it's about to go for sunday and people are home on sunday evenings more people are home on sunday evenings anyway sunday's okay i don't hate it on sunday if they want to fight on sunday yeah wait a minute didn't tyson and roy jones fight on off night yes yes i think it was wasn't it was it
sunday or thursday it was an off night it was i i might have been sunday i think it might have been sunday because it might have been sunny this might have been even where i first like was like you know what that does work just for your own lifestyle it's your own lifestyle dude i guarantee you that's you just you know you're best friends with one of the greatest comedians ever walk to face the earth and you do shows with them all the time you're always hanging out well saturday night you don't want to [ __ ] go somewhere watch a [ __ ] fight when you could be sunday when you got the night off it's just personal convenience okay i will admit that there may be some personal gain to me in it but i'm about the people joe this is like you also don't have a regular job so you don't have to go to work monday morning commute all that that's what most people don't want to get hammered on sunday's the day of rest it's lord's day you know the two promoters of that girl fight as you put it the girl fight yes eddie hearn you're gonna make me have to have those girls on and apologize [ __ ] um and jake paul jake paul was a promoter yeah without jake paul that fight doesn't happen he's you know he's a like a full-on promoter now yeah absolutely the kids got a hustle you gotta give it to him the kids got husky he is a successful husband i don't know i think he might be he's got hustle or he's not a hustler this guy is a legitimate businessman yeah a legitimate businessman but the major but he makes so much money do another [ __ ] that the fact that he wants to do that as well and promote fights as well i'm impressed he put her on his undercard she got a lot of visibility there people in boxing of course were already familiar with her but it gave her much bigger notoriety by being on his cars and then he and eddie hearn put this fight together again i can't stress it enough i sold out an actual madison square garden sold out main arena fight that's dead good for him that was looking for not
like i don't think this fight happens without him you know the the conversation he had with eddie hearn where he says i will knock out any one of your guys that has under 10 fights right he goes whoever you want to have bring me any guy that you have that's under 10 fights you could see eddie hearn like [ __ ] he's kind of stuck there because yep because those guys under 10 fights like what if jake paul knocks one of them out like what if you get a guy that like hasn't been tested and maybe has some promise and maybe gets wrapped up in the hype and maybe gets a little nervous and this is his first chance at a big big big show and jake paul can crack yeah a hundred percent that knockout of tyron woodley is legit as [ __ ] he can't crack but eddie's point in that interview and i think the point that just about just about every boxing aficionado would say is that tyrone woodley is not a boxer yep and norris ben askren who he knocked out as well right we would have gotten some answers if tyson fury didn't get injured or excuse me if uh tommy fury didn't get injured leading up to that fight because he was the initial opponent so if he fought him we would have got some real answers and that would be an interesting fight but agreed and to your point i saw people in boxing when that fight seemed actually was going to happen start hedging their bets well fury isn't this tommy isn't that i don't buy any of that i think tommy is a absolutely a legitimate boxing opponent for jake paul entertain this perspective if jake paul wasn't jake paul if he wasn't this youtube guy who was just a boxer and you see a boxer knock out the former ufc welterweight champion not just the former but one of the best ever knock him out with one punch like that like oh man have you seen this jake paul dude coming up he's [ __ ] for real because nothing about watching him fight to me screams like he's in over his head nothing he looks like a real boxer he looks like a real boxer he doesn't look like a guy who's attempting boxing that's the difference the faints the foot movement the way he lands shots he fights like a boxer he doesn't fight
like a guy who's trying to box in a celebrity boxing match he fights like a boxer no because so if he wasn't that guy i'm saying if he wasn't that big youtube star and you just saw him as a boxing contender you'd be like that dude's got dynamite in his hands okay so there's two points to be made here first of all if a guy in his pro debut and the first five fights of his career are knocking out people whose names we know you're absolutely right that person is going to get a huge amount of attention and everybody's been like wow who the [ __ ] is this guy but also if a guy who is on the track to be somebody who has like oh potential from the olympics or he's got a great amateur record we're gonna turn this guy into somebody in their first fights they're fighting guys who are like five and 27. they are fighting other uh debut opponents who don't have a great track trajectory in front of them they're fighting yeah tomato bums you know just completely not competitive just to get experience and that's fine right so when we expect jake paul to be fighting like higher level competition it's not because he has under 10 fights because he talks a lot of [ __ ] yeah but that's also why we're talking about them and that's that's exactly true but i think on both sides of the equation we've got to like admit that a young fighter under five fights isn't fighting great competition so if you're calling jake paul a legitimate boxer and then you're expecting him to do what legitimate boxers do i'm not sure he's not doing that and probably more that's what i'm saying about the knockout of tyron woodley because it was just a regular boxer who's just coming up and what does he have six fights yes i don't know something like this what does jake paul have yeah oh yeah something like that right five no i think james that was his sixth and then looking at a post he had where he said
six and okay soon okay so he's got five fights now anybody who had just five fights who's like doing you know small cards and then knocks out tyron woodley tyler whitley says i'm gonna try boxing and some guy starches him with one punch and talks mad [ __ ] like wow that guy's hot right but the fighter doesn't a a 5-0 fighter who's knocked out five guys isn't saying i'm ready for canelo like no guy but do you do if you're crazy and you just talk a lot of [ __ ] it's not like canelo's like waiting to fight him canelo's got a lot of things he's doing he doesn't have any time to be waiting around on jake paul he's not really going to fight him he's got to fight golovkin in the rematch if he if he beats beval he's got things lined up he's talking about fighting music have you seen that [ __ ] yeah yeah and he's interested in that and so am i yeah so yeah and i see eddie hearn trying to put that together please put that together uh please put that together i mean i'm interested imagine if he wins uh the the trajectory canelo is wrong look at this canelo alvarez expressed his interest in heavyweight title fight with alexander usyk a 201 pound catchweight which by the way usyk used to be a cruiserweight champion the fact that not only is canelo interested in this fight verbally but i actually believe him most fighters that would say something as crazy as that like all right well he's trying to get some headlines trying to like do like right you know say something that's not gonna happen you know i think jake paul probably knows he's not getting that canelo fight anytime soon but just say something crazy like that yeah to show that much confidence in yourself is gonna get people's attention this guy means it he means it and the opponents that he's chosen thus far with the ability that he has to guide his own career you can't take anything from him not a thing i i don't know that i could name another fighter certainly not in the modern era that has challenged himself more consistently than canelo alvarez absolutely
yeah yeah you can't criticize who he's facing and no matter who he faces there's gonna be somebody else you want him to fight but you can't say that the guy in front of him right now isn't a worthy opponent and he goes one quality fight to another quality fight to another quality fight yep beevo is a hell of a fighter the weight that they're fighting at 175 pounds for canelo to just just decide to fight at 175 pounds again in a title holder of beavel's ability which is a step up kovalev kovalez was on the slide when he knocked out kovalev kovalev was kind of on the slide yeah and the the challenge in it and people would try to criticize that but i'm like he's 175 pounds even on the slide right that's a huge challenge a huge canelo yeah and on my scorecard anyway canelo was losing the fight yeah until the knockout yeah and so for him to decide to dabble in those deep waters again if he was losing a fight to kovalev who you know arguably has less skills than beevil although bigger i think i don't i don't the one thing is that kovalev is a is a big 75. people is not i think these two guys are going to be about the same size on fight night uh so with the exception of the weight differential that happened or the size differential with kovalev the skill matches up much better with beavel if he beats beavel and acquires another title at 175 pounds you have to actually start talking about canelo already in the annals of history like where does this guy place now right before he retires like no matter what happens from that day on this guy's got to be in the conversation and if he goes up and he beats usyk now you're in now you're in crazy town if he goes up and fights usyk does does usyk have an automatic with anthony joshua are they exercising that yeah yeah absolutely so they would have to pay joshua step aside money yeah i don't see that
happening [Music] didn't they offer actually wait a minute didn't they offer anthony joshua step aside money for usyk to fight tyson fiore wasn't that on the table yeah how much they want to offer him i mean you know there's there's only rumors right so what would you would you rumor would you hear i heard his i heard 10 million all the way up to like just through but who knows what the truth is the guys the only guys who know the truth is the guys who got offered the money right there okay two versions of it anthony joshua denies step aside deal um so he denied that he's agreed okay but they might have offered it to him a report earlier this week claimed that joshua was close to accepting 15 million 20 oh 15 million pounds 20 million american dollars uh deal at his end but he's since hit back at this and branded it [ __ ] hearn told the zone boxing show there's been an offer there's been several discussions with myself okay so he wasn't close to accepting that's not true but they did offer well see there's a thing we don't actually know like those conversations are behind closed doors and no one's going to tell you what actually happened right so we know that offers are on the table i do believe it was a possibility though let's not forget joshua was shopping for trainers doesn't mean if he doesn't take that fight immediately that doesn't mean anything other than he is being smart if he doesn't have a trainer that he's confident in at the time why would you immediately run into the rematch also usyk was fighting in the war in ukraine up until like a week ago yeah that's current but while we were having that discussion the ukraine war wasn't even like that's true but wouldn't you take 20 million dollars to non-fight all day especially with that shallow pool of talent in the heavyweight division he's the top of the food chain he's always going to be a guy you need a big opponent for a big fight anthony joshua is there who the [ __ ] else is there
there's anthony joshua deontay wilder louis ortiz 150 000 years old right and he's still in the conversation right andy ruiz hasn't won well he did he beat uh chris uh what's his name rumor oh areola rumor that he asked oh heavyweight champion tyson fury is said to have gone berserk when his boxing rival anthony joshua asked for an extra 3.7 million pounds in step aside money for the usyk rematch so he wanted more than the 20. but if you could take that just to like who do you have you have uh andrew louise is fighting they are fight he is fighting louis ortiz which is an interesting fight right because andy ruiz is getting in shape now he looks good he's lost a lot of weight he's taking it more serious but tyson fury beat or excuse me um anthony joshua beat him in the rematch that's just how it is yeah he had his son yeah he had his moment in the sun and then he came back and he also was like 380 pounds during the fight yeah he admitted that he didn't train he didn't commit to that which is like the cardinal sin of boxing like you being beaten in a heavyweight fight is not something to be ashamed of unless the reason you were beaten is because you didn't prepare yeah like that's a disrespect to everything the sport means the biggest victory of your life changed your life you knocked out the heavyweight champion in the world yeah i mean it's but my point is anthony joshua is always top of the food chain if he just takes 20 million bucks stays top of the food chain got 20 million in his pocket more time to train more time to like whatever the corrections and changes this new trainer is going to give him more time for those to set in more time to recover all those things are true but i think anthony josh was very aware of the inconsistent nature of boxing and you can't count on anything tomorrow like nothing we're still watching about 23 million dollars 320 million bucks i mean i guess to your point if you had taken that step aside money the fight still hasn't happened
right but what if okay let's say he takes the step aside money 20 million this guy is not like missing any meals so 20 million in his bank account right now isn't gonna make a change in his lifestyle don't you think he lives a luxurious lifestyle that needs to be funded yes yes but joe if he passes on that opportunity and usyk fights fury fury beats usyk fury retires those belts scatter across the pond like little lilies no he retires then usyk and joshua rematch for the title it's simple oh that's not how this is not mm-hmm this is not ever no no no no then each sanctioning body gets to decide [ __ ] that ring magazine call ring magazine up and go guys let's cut the [ __ ] i'm only fighting for your title legacy matters to joshua prime i think might have been part of the equation you know to be a boxer at all certainly at that we got to be a bit delusional like he can't accept that maybe it's better for him to step aside or lose the opportunity to reclaim all your titles at once i feel like there should be one boxing champion in each weight class of course there should but the whole governing body thing it doesn't make any sense if there's so many of them i don't know one news channel that tells you all the truth yeah but that's different no we're talking about a 147 pound world welterweight champion right what there's one there's only one you can't be world champion of that guy's world champion that's crazy that's crazy right but when they do that with them in mma it's just a cringe which belt is the belt then ring magazine okay [ __ ] everybody else how about that they're they're historians of the sport they're they're people that follow the sport to a t they don't make a living just off of sanctioning people but the ring magazine is a cherished belt it's the only publication that has like a cherished uh like a title attached to it all that would really require is that everybody agree like if fighters stop fighting for the other titles and people stop this is how we get killed
there's so much money involved in sanctioning bodies uh let me rephrase that if that's what you want joe that's not what i want i i would like four or five more people to step in and start sanctioning fights more belts the better as much as i agree with that and i do i have been seduced now into this undisputed kind of world of well you know what having to go around and collect all the belts to get like there's a there's champions and then there's like undisputed which is king of kings which is like the guy who's been and that's the elusive like moniker everybody wants now right so there is something to i think there's too many like i would be far happier if there was just just three period right and no inter international champion and no like regional interim but just three titles in every division and then the undisputed champion if you can get all three that might be something that's more doable and i kind of like the idea that just winning one belt beating one guy doesn't necessarily make you king of the division i'm giving you uh i'm giving you an argument for you for your position on this this is what i like you can't have us versus joshua and tyson fury versus deontay wilder for heavyweight titles because they can't all fight each other if there's only one heavyweight title then those fights aren't heavyweight world titles they have to be heavyweight world titles usyk versus joshua 100 is a heavyweight world title fight tyson fury versus deontay wilder is 100 a heavyweight world title fight there you go but you can't have those fights as world title fights if only one guy holds the heavyweight title that's true so that's true this is something like we had there what i like to call the final four of boxing when we thought that this thing was actually gonna bottleneck and everything's gonna work out perfectly that was maybe the most exciting idea in heavyweight boxing in decades in decades and you just can't trust boxing to get out of its own way
and let a series of fights happen the way they should go well there's still potential i'm not i i really think that tyson fury like i forgot who [ __ ] told me that that's how they were going to do it i wish i could remember but that tyson fury's gonna give up his titles i've retired and then he's gonna fight francis singano with the little gloves on make a [ __ ] pile of money and then take a little time off and then oh i'm back i changed my mind i'd like to fight for the title again but then what happens to that wbc title who gives a [ __ ] let it float throw it in the river look at this [ __ ] just keep moving he comes back who gives a [ __ ] who's got the title tyson fury's back baby i've never been beaten okay but do you agree that let's say tyson three comes back and they don't he doesn't they don't reinstate him as the wbc heavyweight journalist i mean he fights for the title he's a challenger yeah but then he gives a [ __ ] that title like who knows who's going to have that at that point who cares he's got it he's only got to come back to fight undisputed like you can't come back and fight for every belt but the wbc again listen usyk and joshua okay let's say usyk and joshua fight and this time joshua wins okay so joshua beats uzik he beats him in the rematch and decides he's gonna retire [ __ ] it i'm good i'm done and then tyson fury comes back and joshua says actually i'm not retired anymore let's go neither one of them has a belt who gives a [ __ ] who gives a [ __ ] i'll come up with the jre world championship and i'll [ __ ] fund that i'll fund that it's a world title we only have one fight heavyweight division world title it's for the jre belt you would think you would think but i think the legacy of it the uh the history of the [ __ ] matter tyson fury retired undefeated anthony joshua revenged his one his two losses that he had revenge both of them yeah he's the [ __ ] the world champ that retired tyson fury's the other world champ call it undisputed that's the name of the promotion that's what i disputed they call it undisputed with no belts just undisputed that's a prize yes and
i think that might be what paul is actually doing he should prize fighting yes right right right right yeah i made a video in that video i i made kind of like one of my very very few editorials that i put on youtube uh about what this jake paul experience is and means to boxing and i categorize it as a prize fight which isn't a diminishing term to what this guy is doing it's a it's phenomenal but to try to put him in the context of a traditional boxer who has taken the path of a career fighter in boxing and make what he's doing makes sense in that context you're always going to have like a screaming match on both sides because that's not really what he's doing he's creating a revenue-based attention-oriented audience for a spectacle that not anybody else at least to this point who isn't a traditional boxer who hasn't built their legacy that way has been able to do right like you say that tyrone woodley uh fighting a guy who's under five fights and getting knocked out well that's gonna put attention on the guy but in that fight tyrone woodley would have had to have been the draw it wouldn't be this guy that we've never heard of and they certainly wouldn't get those pay-per-views or sell out that building the difference is everybody wants to see jake paul fight whoever jake paul picks to fight and he is an expert at picking guys that people want to see and turn that thing into a spectacle well prize fighting was a part of boxing history prize fighting is something unto itself and to hold that that stage is something that i think should be regarded that's like its own category you're never going to convince boxing purists that jake paul is a boxer of any tradition except prize fighting if you can find a guy who can pack a [ __ ] stadium who can sell pay-per-views who you want to see either win or lose and facing a guy who's got a chance
well that guy has created an audience for boxing that is not traditional but is to be respected and is clearly worth a few hours on a saturday night or sunday or a sunday if you're smart [Laughter] i i think this prize fighting thing uh which is what i also think of when we see tyson and jones come back for the one night that's a prize fight like you say there's no belts on the line doesn't even make a lot of sense we just want to see these guys fight do you think jake paul has the stones to really follow up on a mike tyson fight because he talked about fighting mike tyson i think it would be a terrible idea a terrible idea you would realize when you see him warming up across the ring like that's still mike tyson yeah even though he's 55 that's still mike tyson when the bell rings and you see him shuffling for you and bobbing weaving you're like oh no yeah oh no there might be a moment of reality there and i bet he can beat 30 year old mike tyson for about 45 seconds that's all he needs the problem with that fight and is that first of all if he does beat mike tyson we're going to hate him forever forever like if you even if you would mike tyson oh the guy would be uh he would be shunned from society people forgiving how bad people hated larry holmes after he beat muhammad ali exactly people hated him and larry holmes one of the most underrated heavyweight champions that's ever lived ever because people didn't love him because he came after the most beloved heavyweight ever that is exactly right and to take a guy like mike tyson out of retirement who we all love and the only reason we want to see him in the ring again is we want to see some glimpse of the old tyson right and if you make him look like an old man or you hurt him in front of us no amount of reason or logic is going to keep people from hating you forever forever and then if he goes in there and tyson like destroys him well then you've just ruined your whole like premise for being a cash cow why would you do that it's true yeah both things are lose lose it's a lose-lose total lose-loss and to be fair i don't even want to see it like if that fight was i was like ah you'd be right next to me buddy we'd be holding i would feel like i had to watch
it but i wouldn't be like oh i can't wait to see it like there's nothing the moment that bell rings you would be [ __ ] excited as [ __ ] are you crazy uh i would only be you guys if that happens because we talked about this if that happens you and i are going we're [ __ ] going yeah if that takes place because i think if if he backs up the brink's truck and brings it to mike's house i think mike's michael signed on board for that you remember how it felt watching holyfield yeah but that was different that was different first of all i watched holyfield train too i didn't like the way it looked it didn't you know it looked like he was kind of like shuffling through things when i was watching mike tyson hit mitts with rafael cordero i was like holy [ __ ] that was holy [ __ ] he popped in weaving moving forward ripping to the body i'm not saying he's mike tyson when he was 20 years old yeah but it's still mike tyson at 55. mike tyson to 55 is like how deep was your well originally you know you know we've we've lost a few hundred thousand gallons okay but how deep you're [ __ ] well some people have a deep ass well that [ __ ] has the deepest well that's ever been that's a great question if you can do that now he can pull it also with today's science like a 55 year old man is not really a 55 year old man he's doing all kinds of crazy [ __ ] with uh electrodes you know where they put these like electrical muscular stimulation devices on you and they have you lift weights and it leads to like great gains and strength and recovery of range of motion and he's got like legit scientists with him yeah it does make you wonder like the athletes of old if they lived in today's modern technology what they'd be able to do but i wasn't comparing holyfield to tyson's modern conditioning or even opportunity to win but just the feeling of watching holyfield get beat down yeah it stays with me like it's sad and it's infuriating and i i wish i never had to see that and what we love about mike tyson and what gets you excited right now watching him train i don't want that diminished i want this guy to ride off into the sunset of life with us all
being like is he still got it right right right yeah so who would he fight then he was supposed to fight nobody likes that's what they were fighting people what if he wants to have fun what if he wants to have fun i mean i feel like he's gotten away with it thus far in grand fashion like man i was again i'll be honest with you i was against the jones fight i was like one of these guys gonna get hurt or something is gonna happen that we will never forgive ourselves for just because we all wanted one more night do you think they made an agreement that it wasn't gonna get yeah like i i think they may have said as much like it wasn't a knockout kind of it seemed like that was not on the table yeah which is good thank god because they didn't promote it that way for obvious reasons but if that was agreed to which i think you're correct about thank god yeah well it's not the right size anyway roy is just not the same size as great as roy was when he beat john ruiz he was one of the lightest heavyweight champions ever right he was a 200 pound guy and he was barely 200 pounds you know and he's always known for being a super middleweight and a light heavyweight that's roy jones mike tyson's a [ __ ] heavyweight a real heavyweight he was 190 when he was 13. [Applause] [Laughter] i mean that that is that is what makes the idea that a canelo would fight an usyk crazy that's crazy crazy and that roy jones has won the heavyweight championship of the world before oh yeah crazy crazy crazy i wish roy when he had come back from um beating ruiz had really taken his time to get down to 175 again or maybe never did it again because it is not easy to lose muscle it's not easy you know when he went up if you see pull up a video of uh roy jones jr versus john ruiz jr because john ruiz the the quiet man he was uh you know he's a legit heavyweight champion he's a big guy and roy was quite a bit smaller than him
and and not an ounce of fat at 200 pounds now if he had to go back down fight at 175 what is he losing man i mean he's losing muscle there's just no way he's not going to lose muscle i think he weighed in if i ever remember correctly like 201 or some [ __ ] like that he was real light but you see roy's like considerably muscled up he looks great yeah you know let's not forget he's also not 23. like this for the guy to have had the career he'd already had yeah and now be challenging for a heavyweight title crazy and winning it and winning it and winning it crazy and going away and against like a guy look at john ruiz hit him with some big shots there's no pushover yeah they were going after it john ruiz was a legit heavyweight fighter i mean a legit world champion so to go from this fight which also there's here's another thing you know like every fight you're in like you see ruiz clipping him with a big right hand there every fight you're in takes something off every fight every every war takes something off when you move up multiple weight classes above your natural weight class and then fight for a heavyweight title that fight's going to take a lot off that that the the shots you get hit with by a heavyweight they take a lot off and then you drop down to weight to 175 you got to dehydrate the [ __ ] out of yourself i remember when i watched him fight antonio tarver i was looking at his body and i was like man he looks smooth he doesn't look like he used to look he used to look shredded at 175 and i think that sometimes the struggle of getting down in weight is the it's not it's the juice is not worth the squeeze guys bodies just get so weakened by it you can't maintain like striated muscle mass and it didn't look good he didn't look like like he was a coiled spring ready to go like when he fought james tony like back in those days when he was fluid and loose and his [ __ ] punches were lightning bolts man like it seemed like that weight loss that's not an insignificant factor look at what you're demanding of your body like if
you're not let's say you're not paying attention to hitting a weight mark at all just training in that way with that intensity the demands you put on your body your joints your muscles your even your digestion your everything that it goes into just being in that kind of conditioning and then on top of that you want to be 200 pounds today and 175 tomorrow and then back to 68 until you go back to 75 like stress your body's incredibly stressed and then you have to perform at the highest level yeah that again imagine doing that and then also on the weekends i fight mma like what the [ __ ] this is not happening it's i would i really would like to see one person jump over and try it you know if anybody could do it i think it would be crawford because crawford has a background in wrestling and crawford's sons wrestle and i don't even know if he would need to kick he would just need to know how to stop kicks how to check kicks and how to move close enough to to close the distance he knows how to wrestle terence crawford is an elite athlete and he's the best switch hitter alive in boxing right now his ability to switch stances that's a big deal too because there's a lot of guys who um say if you're a right-handed person in boxing you would stand with your left hand forward well in wrestling you'd stand with your right hand forward so a lot of wrestlers when they're fighting a striker and a dangerous striker you'll see him take a south boss dance because then all they're thinking is i gotta get hold of that [ __ ] leg so the left leg his left leg is in front of you right if he's a boxer i want my right leg in front of me i don't want to have my left leg there that's an extra couple of inches and i'm not used to grabbing that way and i'm not used to pushing off of my left leg wrestlers on the right-handed are used to primarily pushing off their right leg so they want that right leg out front terence crawford can switch hit he's the best at it i understand where you're coming from ability wise what i love about terence crawford one of the many things what is this wrestling somebody there's a bunch of videos of him
wrestling who's he wrestling they just got a flannel shirt on really unlucky or something radio show there's a lot of videos of it oh terence can [ __ ] wrestle see this is my point like look at him here like he wrestles like a real wrestler and he's the best switch hitter in boxing so he doesn't give a [ __ ] if he has his right leg forward or his left leg forward he'll [ __ ] you up either way he's the only guy in boxing that can do that like fights just as good southpaw southpaws he does orthodox and he's the only guy in boxing that i know of that fights at a world championship top of the food chain pound for pound best level that also has this kind of wrestling skills yeah and more than all of those things that are incredibly important he's got this competitive killer instinct killer instinct with everything if you put somebody else across from him i don't care if there's a cage around you or ropes yeah or a playground whatever you want he'll do whatever the [ __ ] he's gonna do whatever he has to do to win and by the way he'll do that with frisbee whatever what do you want to play [ __ ] you know he's a killer he's just trying to win he was challenging me to a game of pool i was like what are you saying smoking joint was like nobody beats me he realized as we started talking it was a bad idea i was like no i forgot he's a full player though he really likes the lennox lewis thought he was too oh i lit him up sorry linux i didn't i didn't know this about you i can play for regular people i play real good you know for a pro i play like [ __ ] i'm like a b level a b player yeah when i'm playing at my best i play like a b player you ever play pickleball i have not played pickleball but i hear it a lot lately i think it's because i'm getting old old people start talking about let's play pickleball like what i [ __ ] i'm going to go shoot things not a lot of movies [ __ ] it's pickleball i refuse to act like an old person no young people let's let's not let's
not frame it that way there's not a lot of 25 year old dudes on a saturday night looking to play pickleball now they're too busy watching the fights if the fights are on sunday we'd be playing pickleball on saturday night i i just didn't even know what pickleball was until a year and a half ago uh yeah i i played it at a friend's house and it's a friend in the retirement community no he has a court at his house oh what kind of crazy person has a pickleball corner at the house did he put it in there yeah yeah he installed it and all his friends go and play and uh i was fortunate enough to get invited over and i've been obsessed ever since it's like you know i like tennis too you know what joe if i weren't covering boxing the only other sport that i really like love is tennis i don't play it at all because it's too [ __ ] hard to be like because i'm so young running back and forth yeah my rough on the knees um but yeah the pickleball was a welcomed sport that was close enough to tennis that i could play it and have as much fun i'm not don't get into the old man [ __ ] just accept that there's something new that can be brought to your life that can be fun and i'm athletic talking [ __ ] my friend that's what i do i talk [ __ ] you bring up something like pickleball like i gotta talk about retirement communities i listen i bowl i bowl with my kids i like to go bowling that's stupid old per person sport too oh man right old people love but my grandfather loved bowling he was a bowling champion he had bowling trophies in his house he was all happy when he bowled they'd have a bowling league and they had league night guys back in those days man like old dudes they would they would love that there was an excuse they could all get together one night a week and take away some of the drudgery of working every day you know so one night wednesday night it's league night i'm going out with the boys and you get your [ __ ] bowling ball and you get your car and you drive and you have like an
obligation to the boys gotta go to the league and you're rolling some stupid ball down this wooden [ __ ] platform until it hits some pins i only know that culture from watching these old tv shows right like king pin you know with his bowling shirt he loved it man that that culture back in my grandpa's days that was what they did they all bowled everybody bowled now yeah but archery is your sport now well archery is a discipline archery is something that i love to do because it like when you're pulling back a bow and you're aiming you don't think about anything other than perfect execution of the arrow that's all you think about and there's meditation in that i think it's like a martial art i think i really do i think our archery is a martial art i don't think it's a martial art in terms of like you'd use it in a fight but obviously it started out as something that people used in war and to get good at it and accurate meant that you could kill more things and probably i wonder what it actually started out what i wonder if it started off as a weapon of war or it started out as a weapon of hunting i wonder what they used first had to be right i would imagine so i would imagine the imperative would be to get food before it would be to [ __ ] somebody up unless that person had some food right right right we didn't think about how easy it is to get food today the way we get food for now like they keep talking about [ __ ] food shortages inflation food shortages isn't there plenty of food why are you guys talking about food shortages is there though how about prepare so that there isn't food shortages i mean i'm a city boy like if the supermarket's closed i'm in a lot of trouble yeah there's no farming i don't have tomatoes in my backyard like if postmates is not delivering i'm gonna starve the best you just gotta get to dave's house go to yellow springs a place like that like ohio is a great place to be if the [ __ ] goes sideways because there's plenty of farms there's plenty of you know yeah but there's also the people kind of people who live on farms the [ __ ] i don't want to be in ohio if this [ __ ] goes upside down where do you want to be
you don't want to be in new york no no i don't want to be in l.a you know what man you might want to be in ohio you know it's good you got to ride it out like a couple of years i'm going to be at the joe rogan experience wherever wherever you are that's where i'm going to be you're the only guy i know that has a bow and arrow and it is a good shot has some idea what we should eat if it were raw for christ's sake yeah you can eat most things yes most of my friends don't have that uh mentality about me i keep most of that i can definitely help you get meat um yeah but i would use rifles if if i do bow hunting because it's harder and because it's it's a discipline and because i i love archery but if we're just trying to survive we're bringing bullets i'm not taking any chances on missing an animal i'm you know look if you are close enough to an animal and you have good discipline and you you practice with a rifle it's pretty much a gimme you just with a bow and arrow it's never a gimme bow and arrow you have to wait for the perfect shot perfect like they have to turn a perfect way you want to catch them broadside because you don't want the bullet or the arrow rather to hit bone when it's a bullet you don't give a [ __ ] you're blowing right through the front shoulders you're killing that animal with one shot i've never even considered whether or not my arrow might hit bone this is why i've got to be uh wherever you are i don't think dave's ever thought about whether or not that arrow is going to strike bone like you know you have to roast the right arrows too you probably got enough elk meat in your freezer to last this right through the apocalypse you probably even have to go out i got about a year's worth of meat right now yeah i like to keep a lot of meat i have two commercial freezers that i keep here yeah these big ass freezers that i fill with uh wild game meat then i have freezers
at home too yeah if you don't have meat you don't know how you're going to eat if you don't have rice if you don't have food in your house i don't have to go anywhere to eat i could stay home for weeks and not have to go anywhere to eat that's important to me because i don't trust after like this covid thing and the power went out here for a week last year and everything got kind of sketchy the roads were all shut down because they don't have any [ __ ] plows here like i don't trust things to be always okay i like when they're always okay i'm not like hoping that i get to use my prepper skills and [ __ ] the apocalypse but i keep an eye on where the deer are in my neighborhood i watch them i say hi to him my kids say oh so cute so cute and i said i say yeah they're beautiful they're beautiful but i think about putting one right behind that front shoulder every time i drive by look at their front shoulder i go right there buddy right there buddy cause i'm gonna eat you and you've been at this a lot longer than covet existed in our minds or yeah but it's just society i don't society's run by people and people are wholly untrustworthy not always most of the time they're trustworthy most of the time people do their job and they keep it together but people fall apart all the time people kill themselves people have drug overdoses people steal people they [ __ ] ruin other people's businesses for no reason because they're [ __ ] people are nuts to trust people and to say well the people that are in charge of agriculture they would never do us wrong they would never [ __ ] this up everybody could [ __ ] up everything you got you got to have a certain amount of autonomy so if things do get [ __ ] you can at the very least survive i can survive i know how to survive how long have you been this way i grew up without a dad so i've been this way forever i haven't talked to my father since i was seven years old so i didn't grow up with anybody taking care of me i grew up with people telling me i was a loser or i was
never going to amount to anything or whatever the [ __ ] they said that was discouraging and i was like oh okay okay that was always my idea my attitude was always i don't trust any of these [ __ ] people i've watched people that were supposed to be people in positions of power be shitty i watch people be mean to their spouse and mean to their parents i watched i watched a lot of that growing up so i never trusted people to just i felt like you could find some people and trust them and you need to find people of exemplary character people who and where do you find those people they have to be doing difficult [ __ ] so i graduate i gravitated rather towards martial arts because the people that were all really good at it they had the ability to overcome incredible obstacles to get good at something that's very difficult those are people of considerable character those are the people that i was interested in i was interested in people that figured out how to make it in a thing that's very hard to make it in and that's why to this day i'm still obsessed with fighting well you want to become an alexander usyk you want to become uh terence crawford you want to become an earl spence you you're a [ __ ] unusual human man that's a human of the exemplary ability very unusual outlier status in terms of like their discipline their mind their ability to push their ability to find a way to victory that's what's exciting to me and i just most people fall apart most people crumble most people panic most people when when the [ __ ] hits the fan and everything's on the line they don't know what the [ __ ] to do because they don't know who they are because they have all these ideas maybe they base who they are on what other people's opinions of them are and so when things go sideways they're [ __ ] when a girlfriend breaks up with them they're [ __ ] when they get in a dispute with a friend and the the other friends take that friend's side even if they're right they're [ __ ] because they don't know who they are now now my friends are mad at me and my girl left me i lost my job you don't know who the [ __ ] you are because you're all tied up in all these things
you and i have that in common i didn't grow up with a father either my father in fact was murdered when i was two years old by his best friend oh my god and so growing up with the reality of death looming is part of what makes something like it happen the other night so so real to me and it can overshadow so many other incredible things that are happening like on that night like yeah that was the fourth night at the hollywood bowl dave chappelle showed out sold out all of the night that happened right before black star came on stage to wrap some of their album the first album back after 24 years all that was happening that night the people that were on the side stage that's because they all showed up to see dave see black star to be a part of that moment that they've created there in that building and some i don't it's hard for me to even characterize this individual was willing on that one moment to take it all away from us you know what a lot of this is i mean with that guy in particular there's people that are left out in society and that's a guy that was left out in society that was a homeless guy i mean a homeless guy who's non-binary calls himself they them on his twitter like to be a part of any group is so special and to be a part of a group that's united against someone who probably never even watches special he doesn't have a [ __ ] tv how's he gonna watch it he probably just hears dave chappelle's transphobic so he's gonna attack him and to get the love of those people if you if you actually did it you know how much love you would get if you want to attack this person you know this yeah for attention kind of validation oh my life means something now exactly because i ripped this life away from everyone else because it's look you were very fortunate that when your father died you you made it through and became a great adult
but many people have horrible things happen to them along the way and then they find themselves homeless they find themselves drug addicted they find themselves falling apart but we have a whole sea of possibility of potential bad results and good results in all of our communities but nothing like the homeless community the homeless community is almost 100 bad results yeah yeah and it all comes down to how you deal with that adversity the way you describe your father not being in the home and what that did to your young psychology well that sets you on a trajectory that sets you on a course didn't mean it was going to be sustainable like i'm sure you've had many moments in which you had to find your resolve is this really can i can i do another day of this can i find my way in the world in spite of this and that and the accumulation of trauma and challenges that's also what my show is about that kind of thing like the difference between joe rogan and a guy right out by the lake in a tit might be one choice right one thing that he couldn't overcome that made the difference between millions and millions and millions of people listening to the joe rogan experience and this guy begging for food outside of a tent in a lake in austin yeah i think a lot of it is exposure to dangerous drugs like some people they when they do need an escape early on they have close proximity and they have exposure to something like fentanyl and they they get something that they get hooked on something like heroin they get hooked on it meth hooked on it and then you know some people do break through from that and actually even wind up being athletes you know there's been guys in the ufc that there were elite fighters that fought that had had [ __ ] overdoses and had to be resuscitated they were they were dead they'd be brought back but they're beating those demons they're winning whatever that fight and i and i don't think that the fight is drugs when it's drugs like drugs is a
symptom right of whatever is underneath there that you're trying to overcome you're trying to forget about when you talk about your dad and putting you on that focus is that like a survival mentality or is that like i'm going to be something because he wasn't there and people don't think i can be anything there's probably both of those things happening simultaneously but there's definitely a survival thing because you realize that no one's looking out for you you know when you realize that no one's looking out for you and then you look at the flimsy structure of society and how all would have to do is like power goes out for a week then what are you going to do all the frigerators are bad all the food's bad how are people getting in how are you getting in and out there's no transportation anymore because you're out of gasoline because you can't pump it and you can't refine it because there's no power all we take is the power grid to get killed and it wouldn't take much a solar flare an attack from a foreign government the foreign government wanted to take out the united states power grid with missiles they used drones and they sent drones over with missiles and took out the power grid it's totally doable if the power goes out man how long do you think it is before we figure out how to turn it back on it could be a long time if it's up to me it's never coming back but even if it's up to the best minds if the the the grid gets crushed by a solar flare for instance yeah there's solar flares that we talked about this once jamie there was one that took out um what are those things morse code and then there was the other thing that they use the old-timey the western they would send a telegraph remember those they took it took those out took those out in the 1800s there was a solar flare that was so pop powerful that uh it [ __ ] up anything that was electric electrical devices and ruined and this is like we're we're lucky that this same strength solar flare didn't
happen today when everything is electronic and everything is using electricity like it could have [ __ ] torched our society like a real legit solar flare which is a fairly rare event in terms of like the long the length of time that a human being lives but very common in terms of the length of time the sun lives it's just whether or not you catch one while you're alive so if while you're alive a massive solar flare erupts and torches the entire power grid we're [ __ ] i don't imagine that would have ever occurred to me had you not brought it up and i don't think you trust anything i do i trust a lot of people i trust i trust my instincts i trust truth i trust a lot of things it's not that i don't trust things it's just i see the whole picture i see all the vulnerabilities it's like i used to have a problem when i was young in particular when i was young i couldn't just accept a person for what they were i would always find their vulnerabilities i'll just find their weakness it would annoy me i'd be like this lazy [ __ ] is three minutes late every day like get up three minutes earlier i would obsess at it i would find like the holes in them i bet it quits easy i bet if [ __ ] gets i would i would think of people that way i would think of people like what would how what would it take to get that person to cry who would it take to get them to quit would it take get him to fall apart because i was a fighter i was i was finding vulnerabilities in people i was like a little predator so that the problem was that i would i wouldn't just accept what a thing was i would say okay but what happens if this happens whatever that happened and then is there a fallback plan does anybody know what the [ __ ] to do if the power goes out does anybody ever no no one's ever just showing up at work every day and hoping the coffee machine works no one is paying attention like this could go sideways and it has throughout history multiple times numerous times where civilization's been basically brought down to its [ __ ]
knees by natural disasters and then society had a rebuild if you do that with people that you know and your friends and that you love that's got to take a hell of a toll on your relationships if you're fine yeah i stopped doing that when i was young it took me until i was like in my 20s my early 20s i realized i was doing that all the time i would just i would pick on people for what they did that was like lazy and weak it would drive me crazy because i hated it in myself dude i was so married so uh crazy rather when i was young that i was married to the idea that pleasure was weak like i i had to i had to figure out a way like when i was like in my teens that i didn't feel like a [ __ ] because i wanted to have sex with a girl instead of training i literally had to put it in my head that like the idea that pleasure wasn't bad i felt like pleasure was weak because it was like weak it was too easy to slide into anybody could have pleasure you could go out pleasure oh great what's what's difficult to do it's difficult to train hard and it's difficult to fight it's difficult to go out there and and win and that's what you should think about not getting your dick sucked and [ __ ] and all that stupid [ __ ] no you should only be thinking about fighting is that because fighting is discipline yeah pleasure is given into it desire oh you're gonna take a nap afterwards is that [ __ ] it's so dumb this is i mean so contrary to way i think now but i remember very clearly when i was young thinking that what changed it i just got smarter i just i realized what was wrong with the way i was thinking like because i'm always i'm always editing my th not editing i'm using introspective thinking on my own life on my own like if i have an interaction with someone like if i have a disagreement with them i always want to like okay i don't want to believe that i was right when i was wrong like i need to know what the [ __ ] did i say how did i say it they could have said that better maybe they just
misinterpreted it i always want to know like whenever it's like i had a conversation just yesterday with a good friend of mine and we were talking and he was telling me about the story i go okay do you know for sure that that's how he took it like maybe he took it this way did you ask him this first did this like i want to know did you do this work are you just assuming you want you want to call me and tell me that you and this guy got in an argument because you want me to tell you you're right or do you want my actual opinion the only way i want to get my actual opinion is i need to know what your opinion is and the only way i can trust your opinion is if you've looked at your own self so if you tell me i got in a fight with this guy man i sat down i thought about i was like okay was i being a dick what did i do wrong um and then i thought well no because he knew this and i know he knew this because he brought this up so maybe maybe i didn't uh explain myself right and so they don't think about how i explained myself and i was like well maybe they misinterpreted what i was saying i thought i was joking around then i'll try to think of that i'll do the work so if i ask someone a question if they're having an argument with someone okay do you know of this and then they start raising their voice and now [ __ ] him okay you haven't done the work so you don't even see you're you're so attached to being correct here that you're ready to dig your heels in the sand and then fight for your side regardless of whether or not it's correct that's twitter that's twitter in a nutshell that's what people do that sense of certainty is something that does come with youth i had it yeah i you know i had anger issues i was a i wasn't a provocateur or a aggressive i wasn't a bully but i had like a very very thin line between i'm totally cool with this yes and i'm ready to kill anybody that's involved in this yeah there's no yellow light right it's also not being protected when you're young that's what that's that's a lot of that comes from
you know and also take that connection exposure to violence while in the womb right yeah that's what's really crazy michael irvin told me that once on a [ __ ] flight to australia he was on a flight to australia just randomly same flight and he was uh going over there for a football thing and i was going over there for the ufc thing and we were talking we just got a [ __ ] 16 hour flight we're just hanging out in the galley chit-chatting and he's telling me about these guys that he works with that are experiencing the the these these guys came from an environment where their mother was exposed to violence in the womb so they're getting hit or they're seeing violence and the cortisol level rises and it's literally preparing the fetus for a violent world so those guys come out of that world and they have a shorter fuse quicker to violence and that's they wind a lot of these guys wind up playing football and then what happens when you wind up playing football well then you're in a place that rewards violence it rewards explosive behavior explosive speed and you're getting hit all the time and then you get hit all the time and what happens then well you get even more impulsive guys who have cte guys that get brain damage they they make poor decisions they're more impulsive more prone to violence and so you're dealing with this literally from the [ __ ] womb but to come to that realization to understand that usually is attached to an experience it's not you didn't just get smarter things happen to you you experience things where you had to pay a dividend for being dumb yeah and what's that like there had to have been a moment where it's not a moment it's cumulative life experiences but it's also learning early on from martial arts that you have to pay attention to all of your weaknesses and you have to fix those you can't have like a weakness of technique you can't have like uh one thing you only do and you can't do other things because you'll get hit you can't have like bad defense okay that's bad footwork but you described pleasure as a weakness yeah and training as the discipline so train instead of [ __ ] because this is something that i i can do that makes me stronger and this
is just giving into a weakness yeah how did you recognize i realized this is dumb i realized it was dumb i was just like alone thinking about how stupid it is and it's horny oh for sure i was horny but i think uh i also abandoned it because i stopped fighting when i was like 22. so it was young enough so that i had adopted a new life i started doing stand up at 21 and somewhere along the line i realized i can't do both and then i quit i think i had my last fight i was either 21 or 22. i had three kickboxing fights so that was young enough that i could have abandoned my old life the old life of like extreme discipline and like this crazy focus on this one thing because this other thing needed a different approach yeah comedy was like one of the things i used to think of when i bombed early on was like [ __ ] this i'm going to go back to fighting [ __ ] because if fighting i didn't give a [ __ ] of people like me i would just take naps i would like before i would fight like i would go to tournaments i would look at everybody be nervous and i'd just lie down and go to sleep i liked it i liked the the fact that they didn't have to like me i like i liked when people were cheering against another person i liked it i liked them like no one can help you when you're in here as soon as this starts you no one's going to help you all these people that are here there's no one here for me i'm here for me i don't know you know and that was like this attitude like that i didn't care because i knew that i was working hard enough i knew that i was putting in all the work i didn't need anybody else's opinion but at comedy you needed everybody's opinion you need everybody to like you you need to be like a bull then you're like god damn i have some blind spots that i realize i have some blind spots in my own personality because my personality was geared towards success and a violent execution world that was always about was kicking people in the face so that was what i was geared for success at we really are flip sides of the same coin the fighting was like so personal for me i would never want to do it in
front of people for the sake of that or it wasn't even about destroying the other guy it was about working through that anger and working through all of that like pent-up aggression and getting it out and healthy it felt like getting high but the liking me part and the being an affable guy and being able to communicate well and speak like huge huge objective like i wouldn't even like to have to admit how much and how important it was especially for me younger to be liked but also to be thought of well like what was that it's like i think that's for everybody though don't think everybody wants to be liked when they're young i think maybe the aspect of not having a father could be a blessing in the sense that i don't need this one guy to like me like i don't know maybe that one guy wants you to do a specific thing or just can't accept who you actually are and you spend your whole life trying to be whatever that guy wants to be yes and so but at the same time it gave me this uh desire to not be the stereotypical because you're a white man but a black guy without a father is a stereotype white man without a father well that's sad [Laughter] so for me it's like well there's only this much is available to you this guy single mom i didn't have any siblings we didn't come from any kind of real money so he's only going to be able to do this he's only going to be able to go that far uh you know he's a likable guy but there's no way he can achieve anything beyond something very you know average right i didn't go to college but that was because i was pursuing something that i believed i had special talent at but even then even though i had success in high school i had a radio show in high school i was very well liked not going to college well that's it for that guy he's only going to be able to go this far wait till that dream putters out that's why i went to college yeah and that's why i didn't i went to college just so people wouldn't think i was a loser yeah that's the only reason i went and i
mean i'm so glad i didn't fall into that trap well i got out of it i mean i did three years of college but it was not full-time most of the time but my my feeling about what we're saying is that it's all that adversity can [ __ ] you over or it can really help you it really depends on how you address it and how you get through it obviously it helped you help you form your opinion most people that i know that have had bizarre lives are interesting it gave me resolve it gave me resolve that like you know what knowing the finality of life at such an early age i'm not living it for anybody else with that said i want people to like me part of my career choice is going to require that i have an audience that wants to hear what i have to say or at least trust me and likes me enough to come back tomorrow but i not gonna trade my desired experience on this planet for somebody else's judgment yes and the way i see you attacking life well you went to college just so that people wouldn't think you're a loser yeah how how important was it at some point that it wasn't that everybody else didn't think you were a loser but that you realized that you weren't a loser when did you stop well i realized i wasn't a loser when i got really good at martial arts but the problem was there was no money in it and so the the like the saying that i didn't want people to like me or i didn't care people liked me i didn't care if people liked me in the realm of the most important thing in my life which was competition because it didn't matter like you didn't have to like me if i weigh you know 154 and you're in my weight class you don't have to like me i don't care like this is just it's the the most important thing is this chaotic moment that happens when we have to bow to each other and then we fight so that was all i was focused on because that's what matters that's the crazy thing when that didn't matter anymore because then i wasn't doing it anymore then i had to address like my whole way of approaching life was so aggressive and it was so weird it was so like that i was only focused on this one extreme thing and then i realized like oh like i missed
out on like most high school experiences that a lot of people had because most i was traveling around the country fighting in tournaments my whole high school all through like 15 16 17 until i was 21 years old i was fighting everywhere just that's all i did so like all the stuff of partying i wasn't partying if you party then you you're hungover if you hung over you get kicked in the face you have to train you're going to train and get kicked when you're hungover get the [ __ ] out of here it's not worth it there's nothing worth it it's too scary so i didn't party so i like i can count on one hand the number of times i got drunk or high when i was a teenager it was very few very rare when you stepped outside the ring or stepped off the mat does all that other [ __ ] come rushing back no because i felt like the thing that i learned from martial arts is that i can be some there was the first time in my life where i didn't feel like a loser like i felt like oh all i have to do is learn how to get really good at something like put a lot of effort into it a lot of thinking and you can get really good at something and when you get really good at something all of a sudden people admire you so instead of being a loser you know when i was like four-time massachusetts state champion and i would i would enter into this weight class and i would see people like get upset that they were going to have to fight me i'd be like that's right [ __ ] here it comes because it was for me it was exciting like i was a somebody now i was something right you know it's like when you don't have anything and then also you become a something like you realize like oh what did i do how did i get here i found a thing i found good instruction i found good training partners and i [ __ ] fully completely dedicated my whole life to it because so although like my approach to it was so aggressive and probably not healthy in the realm of the rest of the world like what i learned from that though is that by completely focusing on one thing you can get better at it and you're not a loser you're just someone who hasn't you haven't done anything yet that's all it is just having it you haven't figured
out how to be good at something yet with no guarantees in life nobody had just pad your path you found something you were good at yeah you were really good at it it satisfied and satisfied that needing you how do you then leave that for something like the comedy stage where again there's no guarantees you can't be very good at it at the beginning yeah how do you make there's a lot of luck but why would you even do it well one of my good friends this guy steve graham talked me into doing that when i was like 15 years old he told me i was funny because what it was like i would make people laugh in the locker room because we'd all be real nervous we'd have to go out there and spar or would be in a bus on the way to a tournament everybody'd be nervous and i would be the one who talked a lot of [ __ ] because when we're nervous like for me it was an opportunity for me to get attention like everybody's nervous so i'm gonna say some [ __ ] up things so everybody laughs and i realize that it's a good icebreaker and people enjoy it because they want a some sort of a relief from the weirdness of knowing that you're going to go fight in a full contact tournament and so i would be the guy that like would crack people up by doing impressions of people and talking [ __ ] and so my friend steve was like dude you really should be a [ __ ] comedian i was like you think i'm funny because you like me i go other people think i'm a [ __ ] [ __ ] but i went to an open mic night and then i realized on an open mic night i was like oh everybody sucks they all started out sucking like i thought like you just you're richard pryor like or you're not you know no no it's like everything else and then i applied like my martial arts mind to it i was like oh you just got to be dedicated you got to find out what that thing is but then i realized like no there's so much emotional intelligence that i'm lacking because all i've been thinking is kicking people in the face for most of my life like okay so i had to like rethink what i thought was funny rethink how people thought of me rethink why did people think of me this way like why did why was i nervous when i was around some people but relaxed around
other people i had to try to like work my way through it but what i was worried about was brain damage um i was in a place in boston where especially when i was kickboxing we would do some hard sparring hard sparring they're basically fights we were fighting with 16-ounce gloves on and um i remember watching guys deteriorate guys had been doing it longer than me and then i'd seen them you know like maybe when i was 21 they were 30 and i'd see them start to slur their words and i'd see them you know like do [ __ ] up things like drunk driving and you know getting in a fight with their girlfriend they get arrested and then they're back in the gym and i'm watching the deterioration and then there's still heart sparring and they they take a lot of pride in the hard sparring and i would uh be laying in my bed and i was one one night i really remember in particular i was laying in my bed with a headache my head was pounding bang bang bang just from being hit and i was realizing like i am giving myself brain damage or someone else is doing it to me but my choices for for sparring and fighting i'm getting brain damage and i'm like how do i know when i become that guy does he know like how do are you 100 aware when the deterioration sets in because the quality of my thinking my ability to solve problems is what kept me sane my ability to like work my way through things my ability to obsess at things and figure out how to get better at them that was the only thing that brought me any joy and all of a sudden that's going to go away and i'm relied on what only my physical gifts but what about my mind am i going to have a hard time communicating the quality of my thinking is going to suffer by based on my choices and then i started really thinking about it i was like i can't keep doing this and thank god for me at the time there wasn't a viable professional option because if there was a professional option for fighting for me like i thought about boxing one of my good training partners actually became
a middleweight boxing champion in new england dana rosenblatt he was a good training partner of mine we we trained we sparred a lot and he went on to beat uh vinnie pasienza he beat howard davis jr he knocked out howard davis jr he was a legit pro boxer and when we started out together he was a kickboxer and he had made a career and i was like man but that's [ __ ] i just knew that that road was fraught with peril and there wasn't a clear path it wasn't like when i was starting out doing taekwondo where there was a clear path like i wanted to get into the olympic games it wasn't a clear path with boxing or kickboxing that's that's probably what saved me because it was a clear path i would have just dedicated myself to being a fighter and i would have never become a comedian did you mourn it when you when you had to step out of the ring you mourn the excitement the fear the fear of competition and then the [ __ ] exhilarating feel feeling of victory the exhilarating feeling of victory is wild when you're at home and you're like looking at this gold medal you're like holy [ __ ] i did it so for me the person who was like i said i felt like i was a loser like most of my life until i was like 15 or 16 i started getting good at martial arts i was like oh my god i'm good at something and it's like this insecure feeling like a loser was replaced with this feeling of like accomplishment and confidence and uh just a good feeling that i didn't really have any other way in my life i didn't have that good of a feeling of the feeling of accomplishment of victory so i was going to do everything it took to keep that feeling so that feeling was my new friend so that feeling was like what does that feeling need to keep it going oh it needs me to train every [ __ ] day good i trained every [ __ ] day i was teaching i mean i was teaching at boston university when i was 19. i was teaching an accredited taekwondo course yeah i won the american open by then i'd won the state championship four
years in a row i was all in that's all i did did comedy give you some of that feeling back no comedy kicked me right in the dick and taught me comedy doesn't give a [ __ ] uh how good you are at kicking like comedy wants you to be funny and so it was a completely new challenge that made me like rewire what i thought was necessary like it's not just effort it's intelligent effort i mean just effort like you saw i'm just gonna write all the time no you have to think you have to think you can't just write you can't just perform you have to think about what do you perform you have to create your own material because comedy is one of the weird things that like comedy makes you you are you are a writer you're the producer you're the editor you're in you perform it you had to do the whole thing like oh god it's so difficult you gotta it's but not unlike fighting well you gotta punch you gotta defend you have to have footwork you gotta be able to grapple a little bit you gotta be able to win in the clinch you gotta remember your game plan you gotta best the other guys when you step off the stage and you killed you got the last or the bit work is that comparable to winning a match no not even close not even close it's normal it's normal like and you don't think about it too much because you think uh got another show tomorrow night get it get uh get the notes out enjoy it that was fun that's great but i almost like don't like the more successful i get the less it's extraordinary and the more it's just like that's what you're supposed to stupid get back to work but like fighting was always like holy [ __ ] like i would always i remember going back to my house and sitting in my room after a big tournament like like looking at a medal going what the [ __ ] man and then i had like vhs tapes so i'd watch like a vhs tape and me kicking someone's head off and going what the [ __ ] man you're watching your vhs tapes instead of porn because we did i had porn too but we it just seemed fake it seemed like because the the stark contrast between being a loser
and being a winner was like so immediate because it was like i was a loser when i was 13 i was a winner when i was 16. and i was winning all the time it's like this is crazy and luckily i had physical talent like just natural born with certain amount of physical abilities so that like when i learned i didn't just learn i was really fast i was really fast and i could hit really hard it was unusual so i'd found a thing it wasn't just a thing that i could focus on it was also a thing that i had gifts for is it the being a winner or them not being a loser that's driving you they're the same thing no they're not though yeah they're the same thing if you're not a loser you're a winner and if you're if you figure out a way to not be a loser it doesn't mean you're not going to lose you're going to lose but what is a loser a loser is a person who just gives in to losing and you never figure out how to get better it's not you win every time that's not a winner like a winner is someone who is in the process of evolving and developing and getting better a loser someone who quits you give up you can't take it you lay down so like when i would see that in other people that would drive me crazy that was like the predatory i could smell it i would just smell the weakness i was like like i couldn't be friends with people like that it would drive me nuts i'd want to pick on them like a dog does yeah that's an evolved way to look at it because the competitive nature of me and we both talk to very competitive people all the time the most every loss feels a little bit like a loser like if it's like it's almost a reminder that at any point well i can go from being a winner to being a loser if i if i lost this what if i never win again i i believe that and i think that most fighters feel like that and when a fighter loses his title you know like when anthony joshua lost to us that night i guarantee you he felt [ __ ] terrible right i'm not but what did he do he immediately went back to the drawing board immediately called for a rematch immediately started searching for other trainers because he's not a loser he's a winner he just lost the difference is someone who just [ __ ] lays down and says woe is me and
you know you can make that argument for tyson fury at one point in time even though he didn't lose he acted like a loser like he was going to commit suicide he was drinking he was [ __ ] up he had depression but because he's not a loser he figured out this is not good he's like i got a course correct and he did course correct and went back and became the [ __ ] heavyweight championship of the world again champion of the world again because he's not a loser he's a guy that lost but it doesn't mean that you can't [ __ ] up it doesn't mean that you can't make mistakes doesn't mean you can't come up short and whatever you're attempting to do but figure it out regroup get back in there how did you figure that out though time just time just time time and thinking you know the lessons that you learn that you apply from martial arts you could apply from you could apply to everything the the things about really difficult physical pursuits that involve emotions like fighting and nothing involves like emotion emotions like fighting someone beats you in a basketball game they beat you you could always say but i could [ __ ] you up if we want to take this [ __ ] outside talk a lot of [ __ ] i'll smack you in front of the [ __ ] front of the coach i don't give a [ __ ] i'll fight you if i fight you that's that's real beating you know like if someone beats you up you can't say yeah but i could [ __ ] you up in basketball because no one cares right no one cares fighting is the end of the lawn it's the end of the line and so that it just there's a there's emotions involved in that that they're inescapable but you can't let them define you when you lose and you have those horrible emotions you got to use that as fuel and you got to get back into it oh man i wish i could have thought my way through to that epiphany i've i'm there with you but it was a hard road yeah it's a hard time it's turned my life down a few times i'm sure and each time i was like well this is it i guess it's the ashes for me well there's a lot of people out there that think that way right now listening to this yeah and like
again i i hope there was something more grand in my character than simple vanity but if i'm honest to point to like well i can't be here in the eyes it's all dirty and i look like [ __ ] here i get this fat face yeah i can't die a lung cancer and be coughing in front of girls oh my god man it's that i was like i can't live the rest of my life at this level so i find something else to get back on my feet and take what i've learned take a little bit of what i can get out of the ashes and put that as a part of the next thing and so you know here i am and hopefully this house doesn't catch on fire and certainly i'm not the one with the match it's so difficult man yeah it's it's difficult you're not gonna catch your life on fire you're not you're not you're not dumb it's like you're people define themselves by failures and successes which is good and bad it's good because you can kind of get a tally and a running score of whether or not you're doing the right thing but it's bad in that with each thing that doesn't go right you have this feeling that nothing's going to go right and this is it from here on out i'm just a [ __ ] loser it's all going to fall apart and some people that becomes they're fulfilling a self-fulfilling prophecy they they decide that that's who they are and they don't course correct they don't regroup and they never do they never rebuild and they'll sabotage they'll believe that you can only get this far and then if i get any place past that then they end up destroying it themselves yeah they can't see themselves in a different light anything better exactly than what they've conceived of prior yeah it's very limiting it's very scary too because when you get stuck like that man [ __ ] dude it's so hard to get out it's so hard to get out when you're stuck like that it's so hard to like you'd have to find something that you're successful in and
then sort of build up your confidence from there yeah it's something to live for bigger than your anxiety or bigger than your defeatist mentality like that's hard especially if you're a grown adult right see with me moving martial arts i found it when i was a kid so i didn't have a job couldn't have a job it's not even legal i couldn't even it's not legal for me to have a job i have to work out so i did i had to do something but if you are an adult and then you have to pay your bills and you have a family and you're falling apart yeah and you have an idea of some new thing you want to try but it's really risky yeah that's all it's tough that's [ __ ] hard that's the hardest is broadcasting mma some like a way you found back to the sport that maybe you thought for a while you were gone from completely no because i never stopped uh training i i always did something you know i i started doing jiu jitsu i kick kickboxed for a while even when i wasn't fighting i always trained um once i got my i had a knee surgery that i had to get done um in the early days of my comedy career i had a tour tour acl that's actually probably one of the things that kept me from fighting again too because i probably would have from bombing i would have at least tried a couple of times just to get a good feeling because i knew i could win some fights but uh when i went to um uh different gyms like in california i started i was doing the jet center i was training there and then i started doing jiu jitsu later after that so i always did something and then the ufc needed a backstage interviewer and uh there's just sheer luck my manager my comedy manager was friends with one of the guys who was the producer of the ufc this uh early producers got campbell mclaren who's a great guy and he hired me he's like do you like the sport i [ __ ] love sport because i was watching like the ufc on you know it was on like satellite it wasn't even on cable but i remember you have to get like the red box like the yeah i had to get the jimmy little box so i could watch it on the scraggly channel it was banned from cable i got directv specifically because that was
the only way you could get ufc fights because they banned it from cable that's how crazy it is and now it's on espn plus you get on your [ __ ] phone it's on espn regularly yes people are getting their arms broke oh yeah like their head split open yeah bro the first events that i went to live when i worked as a post-fight interviewer you didn't even have to wear gloves you could wear wrestling shoes bare knuckles punch people in the dick guys in there with ghees and like yeah intentionally breaking arms like it was no you could give guys wedgies for real was that a thing yeah you could grab guys by their cup and like yank their [ __ ] i think i would remember that yeah somebody had their cup broke in a match valid ishmael uh veliji he's uh this like legendary jiu jitsu guy he was fighting and it was like ufc 13 or some [ __ ] i forget which one it was but it was early early in the day and the dude he was fighting was like literally like giving him a wedgie while he's fighting well like half his butt cheek was hanging out of his uh his shorts yeah god did he tap no no he beat the [ __ ] out of the dude i don't remember who won the fight actually now that i say that but he was he's a guy who had a jiu jitsu match with royce gracie on the beach in rio de janeiro when hois gracie had won the ufc and he choked toys gracie to sleep on the beach oh my god it was incredible see if we can find that the lead uh it's w-w-a-l-i-d when you say on the beach what do you mean on the beach they set up mats on the beach and they had uh like i think it was at copacabana beach and then they surrounded it with uh just spectators and then no no octagon nope look at this this is it this is them that's literally saying that's sand around the boat yes there's a match and then there's sand and this is uh they're literally fighting on the [ __ ] beach it was a it was and this is bjj history right because this is for them and it says that in the title of the match and this is 100 true because this was also like different schools of thought like uh in terms of
like uh the strategy of jiu jitsu like carlson gracie was a hard style that was where uh valid ishmael came from and hoyce was with his dad ilio gracie which is a more technical style like they and believed at this point in time he was a [ __ ] animal man physically super super strong guy and came from this real aggressive team carlson gracie team and carlson gracie was also one of the early pioneers of uh jiu jitsu uh no holds barred matches so he had no holds barred matches and he beat guys that elio gracie whose hoist his dad lost to like baltimore santana so they brought in they brought in carlson to to beat him cross is like one of the the greatest jiu jitsu fighters that ever lived and that was the first gym that i started out was actually carlson gracie's place so when he well actually i did hixson's first but i only did it for one class but uh when he choked out hoy's gracie he got him with what's called a clock choke and put hoist gracie to sleep it was that way is that what no no not yet they're still scrambling right now but he's well actually he might have a hand on the caller right now yeah he did he's got it already he's got it he put him to sleep yeah oh yeah how did they even i ca that was it yeah he so he did have it all right how do they even sleep down i should know that i haven't done the ghee uh clock choke in a while but the way the geek clock choke works you get a grip on this like this like here's a person's collar yeah you grip here and then this hand goes underneath the armpit and you spin like this and when you spin you have his neck wrapped up in his collar and then you have your arm on the other side and you're just like if you were like if you had a rope exactly yeah watch how he does it so if you watch how he rolls what he's rolling that's hard to tell because it wasn't the best cinematography but he's got his one arm is wrapped completely see that his left arm is is under and uh attached to his neck and the right arm is under and attached to his collar and he puts him to sleep and this was this was [ __ ] huge in the jiu jitsu world because there was a in the jiu jitsu world is pretty united
now like everybody's there's competition but everyone is just like supportive of the fact that jiu jitsu is this amazing martial art but back then there was like some serious factions there were schools of thought there was teams that hated other teams they would fight on site if they saw each other like gangs oh man like gangs yeah there was a lot of like dojo wars back then where guys from one school would show up at another guy's school and want to fight and then like actual kung fu movie that's what every kung fu movie is based on those were real dude we had those in the taekwondo days too guys were coming from other gyms they'd want to spar right away they wanted to fight yeah they wanted to come and fight and you would fight you know full contact in the middle of the gym yeah with someone you just met and somebody coming to your gym asking for a fight is mad disrespectful that was the old days they all did it it was dojo wars they all did it back then like in you know there's great uh video is called gracie in action and the gracie in action videos a lot of those videos are someone would come to their gym and talk some [ __ ] and they'll go do you wanna fight and they're like i wanna fight you right now [ __ ] like okay great we're gonna set up a camera and they would set up a camera and this guy would come in and try to do some kung fu and then someone like hoyce or hixson or horian or any of these gracies would take them down and [ __ ] them up and horion in his infinite wisdom used that as an advertisement for jiu jitsu and see if you can find some gracie in action because first of all horion has that beautiful portuguese brazilian jiu jitsu accent yeah so he's got he you know his original language is portuguese so the way he talks everything sounds so smooth so he's explaining to you the jiu jitsu practitioner takes him to the ground easily and submits him with the church so like these videos this is this is lori and gracie back in the day increased popularity of our self-defense system see it's beautiful right straight out of scarface for us to introduce the first series on the basics of gracie jiu-jitsu i feel confident that the simple techniques that you will learn on these
videos will increase your effectiveness on self-defense by the way let me just say this cory and gracie back in the day during when they made this video yeah he offered money to fight mike tyson in playboy magazine he said he fight mike tyson in no holds barred match for a million dollars yeah no thanks yeah no thanks but if he got a hold of him and grabbed him and dragged him to the ground mike tyson would be [ __ ] i'm saying no thanks for mike tyson on his behalf no thanks but so he was trying to find ways to popularize jiu jitsu and he wound up starting the ultimate fighting championship horry and gracie is the mastermind behind the ufc so when the ufc is taking place this weekend and i'm doing commentary none of that [ __ ] would have happened if it wasn't for that man that you just saw in that video see if you can find the gracie in action though just titled gracie in action videos i think that the gracies is what got me so addicted to the ufc back in the day when i had the hotbox yeah those are the guys breaking people's arms and [ __ ] right hold on go back and i'll that one right there where it says combatives in action see right there there it is okay perfect example see this guy's got [ __ ] pants on thinks he's a badass and and he's he's gonna get strangled and there's a [ __ ] ton of these and they're all like really grainy vhs tapes where these people didn't know what they were doing and they thought they were badasses and they went and tried to have a street fight and now he's tapping but there's a ton of these well that's actually uh henner hannah gracie when he's just doing this and showing but this is this is an actual challenge match but there's a ton of them man they have a shitload of them they basically accumulated a database of showing that they have a superior martial art so it's all because it was a style war like okay yes we fight this way you fight that way which fight the early the early ufc's were basically an infomercial for gracie jiu jitsu right it was basically an infomercial for brazilian jiu jitsu eventually and then it became an infomercial for the power of steroids and wrestling
ground and pound then it was like muay thai kickboxing leg kicks and there was a lot of different styles that sort of showed what they could do until it became what it is now where it's like just fighting like the best what's your style what would you how would you characterize your style well i started off as a striker you know i started off kickboxing and taekwondo but then i have a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu that i learned jiu jitsu later in life and that was uh i've i have a black building ghee and i have a black belt in nogi so two different kinds of jiu jitsu it's both brazilian jiu jitsu but one you're wearing that that collar where you know and the other one you don't grab the clothes at all the other one is nogi and in nogi it's just about clenching and submission holds and position dominance it's more like you're using wrestling wrestling control and then applying submissions to it nobody in modern mma would be wearing a ghee anymore right some guys do in other organizations they still allow them in japan they used to allow guys to fight with the ghee and it was a huge advantage for the guy that's used to using a ghee because you can do a lot of chokes with it you could uh it's a it's a like if a guy comes at you and he has a ghee you're gonna grab it you don't even know why like if he's trying to grab a hold of you you're gonna hold on to his clothes because you think he oh yeah well i'll [ __ ] grab your clothes like yeah that's what they do every day right so if you're a guy who doesn't train with a gee and you fought hoist gracie back in the day hoyce would just close the distance get out and people would just grab him they just they didn't they couldn't help themselves they just grabbed that gear the next thing they'll boom they're on their back boom their arms getting [ __ ] up boom they're getting triangled you said that you thought about returning the um jujitsu when you bombed on stage in jiu jitsu that was uh kickboxing yeah because i just wanted to do something that i was good at because i sucked at comedy what was that it was like bombing in comedy like a depression bombings like i always say it's like sucking a thousand dicks in front of
your mother but i think there's someone i can't risk it what the [ __ ] are you talking about there's someone out there that probably likes sucking a thousand dicks in front of his mom like i'm doing this because of you mom [Laughter] 99. [Applause] there's someone out there that would like sucking a thousand dicks no one likes bombing no one likes it it's just utter failure you would have to hate yourself so much to like bombing and you i don't think i don't think if you like bombing you'd probably hate yourself so much you shouldn't be alive yeah well okay so that let's call that depression it's not fun but it's just a loss it's just a big loss it's it's the thing about fighting is if you lose to someone it [ __ ] sucks it [ __ ] sucks it eats at you and it drives you to get better and it just rematch and but there's something about bombing on stage like they don't like you it's not like your performance sucked they don't like you like i don't like you like whatever you are sucks oh boy yeah you're right i gotta stop reading the comment sections yeah that's what i'm saying don't read the [ __ ] comments but how do you deal with that and you i mean everybody bombs as you said you can't win them all you got to deal with all losses as an opportunity to learn and grow but then before you were this wise i was i wasn't that wise back then but it was wise enough to know that inherently and i just had to like regroup deal with it suck it up and keep going and i and it wasn't easy you know that's the thing that i think makes a lot of like potentially really good comics quit is they can't take the pain of sucking and there's no structure right there's no like if you want to learn music you can go to juilliard right you can go to uh there's people that teach guitar lessons you can go and you can learn you know you can watch videos and you can pick up technique and you can learn how to play saxophone it's it's it's available it's possible sure there's no
one could teach you to be funny and i can't teach you because your style might be different than don l style don l style is going to be different than my style my style is going to be different than david tell style david tell style going to be different than jim brewer's style everybody's got a different style there's no style dojos for comedy nothing there's no classes the classes are all taught by has-beens or wannabes right most of the time i'm sure there's some professional comedians out there that teach comedy classes i don't want to discourage them or disparage them but most of what i've seen when i see people teach comedy they're not good at it in the first place and they're applying like i've seen a few classes where they're applying things that probably be detrimental to your overall career like cookie cutter formulaic versions of how to write comedy but what they do do is at least they allow people to get on stage for the first time so that might be enough they just get their beak wet get them moving and then next thing you know they're actually doing comedy and they're showing up at open mic nights and they're part of the community and they're trying and they're writing and getting better when you showed up at that open mic the first time in front of people who were not your friends already right did you buy them i didn't bomb the first time but i did not have a good set the second set i ever had was pretty good i had a bunch of laughs and that was super encouraging i didn't bomb i think until like maybe the fourth or fifth set i had a bad one i was like oh i didn't know that could happen and then you know but none of them were good you know none of them like i'll tell you my material was polished and uh-huh but i got some laughs you know i got some laughs to the point well okay i see the road you know i don't know how far i have to go but i see the path and i think i'm gonna keep going it was one of those things like goal oriented you see the path to being a comic on tv with a special or a sitcom or like oh this is my road to somewhere no no no no no i thought i could make a
living i think i think i could be a professional i think i could be a professional that's what i thought like some i saw professionals in town in boston and i was like that guy's pretty funny i wonder what it's like to be him he's a professional he makes a living just telling jokes he doesn't have to deliver newspapers or do construction or whatever the [ __ ] i was doing at the time right yeah were you doing other jobs at the time oh yeah in the early days for sure yeah yeah the early days i was teaching for a little while but then i realized i couldn't teach and uh do comedy at the same time because i wasn't into it i wasn't teaching and i was i was teaching i wasn't just teaching i was teaching and taking people to tournaments so i would take them i take students to tournaments and i would coach them and i was realizing i wasn't in it i wasn't in it mentally like before i was obsessed and if someone was a student and they were obsessed too i would i would take them to tournaments i'd help them fight i'd train them like there was quite a few people that i'd taken even young people that had taken and you know brought them up through the ranks and gave them higher belts and brought them to tournaments i couldn't do that anymore i didn't care i wasn't thinking about that anymore all i was thinking about was comedy and i was trying to get good at comedy so i had to quit and uh i did everything else so just i delivered pizzas i uh drove limos construction i worked for a private investigator for a while i did a bunch of things what did you do for a private investigator it was a guy that uh became a very good friend of mine who uh died a few years ago dynamite [ __ ] dave dolan who's the best probably the funniest guy i've ever met that wasn't a comic like definitely the funniest guy did he name himself he's hilarious he was leaving leaving messages on my voicemail dynamite [ __ ] dave dolan here he was a character but he had lost his license from uh drinking and driving and he just needed a driver and it said like private investigators assistant i'm like
well looks like a fun job so he hired me as a private investigators assistant i can already see you in the fedora like the gum shoe the smokey door with rogan on the front you have to wear normal clothes you gotta the whole idea is like you gotta blend in a lot of it was um insurance like busting people that were uh pretending they were hurt but they were really working under the table somewhere else they were taking insurance money because this is pre-internet you know people could get away with that [ __ ] there was a lot of that no like cheating spouses one of those there was one of those that was pretty significant i wasn't involved in that case too much because i think david already got his license back by then but my god he loved telling me about it i would help him sometimes i'll go with them sometimes if he needed a certain person because dave and i stayed friends and it was uh just by sheer coincidence dave was the cousin of a guy named bill downes and bill downs was one of the owners of the comedy connection sheer coincidence and so like when i start working for him like he tells me that his cousin owns the [ __ ] comedy connection so i saw him at the comedy club too yeah he was a guy who quit drinking like that too i was always super impressed by that he had that one [ __ ] car accident ran from the cops got a dui realized what the [ __ ] am i doing and just quit he didn't go to meetings he didn't [ __ ] oh got my coin he did none of that he didn't give a [ __ ] he just quit and he goes that that wasn't for me i had a good time but i'm done and he never drank again yeah that's admirable that's the most the most i think that might have been my weed experience believe it or not dude it's already five o'clock is it yeah we've been talking forever how long were you talking he said how long 3 20 three hours 20 minutes how crazy is that
that's a good mark i like 320. that's a good good way to end till this day it's available on luminary um is it available on anything else is it well yeah it's gonna be on apple podcast you can get that show there so subscribe to luminary but joe i have one more question for you okay so we went down this road i want to know what or whom or how you would characterize your opponent in life me for sure i mean there's also uh stuff on the outside but ultimately you're dealing with the way you attack it so why do you attack it a certain way is it the right way or are you tricking yourself into thinking it's the right way because it's more comfortable that way um is it all your fault but you want to blame other people like the the deciphering me is the hardest and then discipline you know because you have adversity in life but it's not like i have adversity all day every day i'm dealing with me all day every day every [ __ ] day it's me the alarm clock goes off at 7 00 am and me is like [ __ ] that i want to sleep so i got to fight me hey [ __ ] get up i got to press the stop get up wake up start moving walk drink water go pee get going all right get to the gym like wow maybe i don't have to go to the gym today that's me every day it's me fighting with that me guy so me is 100 my my biggest opponent obviously there's external forces and things that are you know points of adversity that you learn from in life failures and but a lot of it was my fault and so like a lot of that other than you know the things that i couldn't handle when i was a child that or rather that i didn't uh have any control over when i was a child it's all me it's weakness yeah weakness i heard what you said yeah and the one through line for all of it was that you're constantly combating weakness yeah and it makes perfect sense why you look
like a monster when i when i hug you you're like like a tree trunk like you are disciplined enough to have this experience the joe rogan experience do mma ufc broadcasting have a comedy career have all these things going on simultaneously i still have to compartmentalize the stuff that i'm doing which isn't all that different from what you're doing but clearly not at this level so i can appreciate how much discipline it takes to put a life like yours together and execute it so excellently well thank you that's very nice of you the fact that every day and all day you best your weakness might be the greatest victory of all in life like if you can beat the weakness inside you well then all this is possible yeah but you really don't even win you just win for the day that's exactly weakness is like see you tomorrow [ __ ] exactly oh by the way you're getting older one of the weaknesses thinking that you won yes oh that's enough yeah i i also do it for mental health like the working out stuff is like i need my workouts to be so much harder than anything else i ever do in life because it makes everything else easy so the workouts are so goddamn brutal that everything else is easy so a lot of like my build is a it's a factor of the work it's not like a goal to like be built like a brick [ __ ] house it's like the work requires so much strain and so much effort and the end result is you just look jacked but it's just i'm doing it for mental health more than anything it's like i need it to be hard it can't be easy i can't i'm not a stroller i don't stroll i'm not out strolling i'm just gonna go for a walk yeah i'm not strolling even that is an example of you beating the weakness in your mind that well this is good enough i could do this level of conditioning and stay in shape but i'm not challenged anymore there is the guy who does that and just maintains and then the guy who you are that continually
continuously adds one more plate because that makes it just hard enough to know that boy couldn't get any harder and i still did it that strength bro there's a little bit of that to it too but it's it's it's not even that i don't i don't feel like a sense of satisfaction when it's over i just i just feel like okay we short up the gates for the day that's it it's not it's not like even a great [ __ ] workout i feel physically good i feel relaxed and i feel comfortable but i never feel accomplished i never feel like yeah gotcha [ __ ] no every day it's like you got to conquer that inner [ __ ] every day that's the one the inner [ __ ] then their [ __ ] is amazing you gotta fight that inner [ __ ] till this day that's the real opponent when i say me it's my inner [ __ ] we all have an inner [ __ ] there it is yeah and that's what we do until this day i have t-shirts to say conquer your inner [ __ ] i've been saying that forever yeah you go to higherprimate.com um i have uh i have a lot of faith in that with if you could do something that you find that's very difficult and it tests you and it it it it makes you rise it makes you push it makes the rest of life easier i really believe that and i think that's a philosophy that a lot of people should embrace it's not my way you could do it other ways you could do it through running you could do it through yoga you could do it through meditation you could do it but you should do something that's hard i don't think people should be living a life where everything's easy that's a nonsense life i don't think that's good for you right and comfort and being able to just continuously do what you're good at and not stretch not going to that other space where it might not work like the skill set that you have and have home that's what i had to do when covet hit and boxing stopped yeah that was the premise for that show till
this day beautiful and that's what we did here today yeah the conversation you and i had is much like the structure of that show and finding that inner [ __ ] as your opponent is what i had the opportunity to do with my other friends as we had a discussion not unlike ours and it required me to go outside of my comfort zone not talk to boxers but talk to people who i thought i knew and see if the conversation there about the passion that i have for understanding the fight in them could be made something that was interesting to everybody including the guests and i think that we did that here today and we did that 15 times until this day indeed my friend luminary is where you find it apple podcast is also where you can get it joe rogan thank you for this experience pleasure brother it's always great we'll do it again we'll do it again for sure very kind and generous thank you all right goodbye everybody [Music] [Applause] [Music] you