Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PXLkhAzyk
[Music] hey you know what um we turn to you yeah we turn to you to find out whatever [ __ ] gets completely sideways it's time to bring in mike baker for uh some sort of analysis sounds very sunday morning news talk show thank you great well thanks chris wallace for having me tell me what the [ __ ] is going on this place is falling apart who's running the show what's happening well first of all i want to thank you for my antibody test i'm psyched about that yeah you don't need that wacky booster no no i got that i got that i got a picture of it and everything so you must have been exposed you've been vaccinated but then you probably got exposed to covid somewhere along the line recently you said you had a day where you kind of run down i had a day where i was a little bit run down and then uh but i got i got the second of the uh vaccines uh shots was at the end of february so that's what seven months yeah it's a long time yeah it's a long time and so and those little lines on the not that i understand it i'm talking like i understand what i just looked at but but um the lines on the end of body test results looked pretty damn good and uh yeah yeah very viral and so yeah so i think uh this and and i've been traveling like a son of a [ __ ] right over the past three or four months there's no way i haven't been exposed now i got the boys right going to school they're coming home you know and and it's not like they didn't bring back every germ you know ever invented before the pandemic right so they're doing the same thing with gobert so i'd have to assume at some point yeah i got exposed my kid got a regular cold recently no oh my god did they still do that i didn't know they're gonna go around you got a regular cold i was like this is crazy i know it's it's like and it's this uh there's so many things that are [ __ ] up about this but but it's if people have forgotten that every year maybe you go out and you get your flu shot it didn't mean you weren't going to come down with the flu that season it just would be maybe a little bit better right yeah and so but now but this covet thing was sold in a
different way yes it was not sold that you're gonna get covid but it won't be that bad like fauci was literally on tv saying you won't get it and you won't spread it to anybody right both those things are patently false well now we got president biden wearing a mask yesterday getting a booster so do you think you got a booster booster you mentioned that before before we started talking and i hadn't thought about it before but you know what i when i watched it on tv when i watched the you know him getting his shot and his his mask on all i could think of was this is performance art so the next step of performance art would be like not giving him the booster but just giving him a shot i think if they were gonna give him a booster shot the last thing they would do is give it to him live on television what if he dies right right what if he blacks out what if he like gets it in faints like because people have had very bad reactions like in the moment for whatever reason right right no they when they still i think they still tell you you know they give you the shot and then they'll say stick around for 10 or 15 minutes make sure you don't you know fall down yeah so uh no i i agree because every other step of the way with any president they're so careful yeah right so careful about the messaging the optics the the security issues related to it um it would be not unheard of let's put it down harrison talked him into it she's like good take it take a double give him a double i don't know i don't think she wants a job anymore no she's not quite quiet she's been very quiet i'm weird right i think she i'm not sure she may have left the country so there were that [ __ ] whole border thing like oh she's going to address the border and now you look at it you're like go what is going on down there apparently she took care of it it's out of control they brought haiti to the border that's the crazy thing is like how many haitian folks are trying to get in yeah like how did that happen what what i thought it was just mexicans well and if you look at the map it's not a logical
uh migration right if you look at a map right you got florida which would seem to be i don't know maybe a natural point of landing certainly closer yes and and then you've got you've got this diversion over to texas and uh but look i mean we've been seeing this happen for a while i mean uh i think it was panama said look this time last year they were processing maybe 300 you know uh people coming in and now they're up to like 30 000 a day coming in yeah mostly africans and haitians into panama into panama yeah so 30 000 a day which is sort of the leading edge right you these are the indicators that say we're going to have an issue right because they're not they're not going to panama to stay in panama they're not going to mexico to stay in mexico right so it's it's it's a it's a waypoint and you know i don't i i get the idea everybody's looking for a better life people want to get the hell out of some place that they don't see any future um you know used to be that if you were seeking asylum uh you'd go to the next safe harbor right and and that would be your point of you know kind of where you're going i'm looking for asylum but now it's you can pass through any country and then get to america and claim asylum even though you've been going through a variety of other countries to get here so i'm not sure how how the definition changed at some point but uh no i think to to get back to the original point i think vp harris she's she's done a fine job with the border what the [ __ ] is going on where he was saying that they're gonna punish the guys who are on horses because they're strapping these these haitian immigrants like did he not even watch that no does it mean that's a crazy thing to say because yeah that's isn't that defamatory it is uh you know in in in because they did those guys with straps like he was pretending that they were whipping these guys yeah that's not true no it's not true those they're they use what are called split reins it's it's a simple thing um i've been riding horses since i was a little
kid and uh what we're getting now is we're getting policy made by people in washington dc who have no idea what a horse looks like right and they they saw this picture they left to a conclusion the optic you know from their perspective was awful right and okay yeah you look at that and you go okay now put it in context my thought when i see that picture is i want to know what happened immediately before and what happened after but let me say something real quick it's impossible for him to be whipping him because he's grabbing him right look at his arm yeah and that's also that is his arm right yes and that's also a rain that's part of the race it's a rain but it's very clear that his hand is grabbing him and his other hand is up there there's no hand to whip him right it doesn't exist no but that doesn't that doesn't matter that's that's not fact you know you know that facts facts don't matter in washington anymore facts don't matter anywhere i just can't imagine that they don't matter when you're the actual president it's one thing if you're cnn and you're just full of [ __ ] but this is not this is just the president of the united states saying that someone would be held accountable for strapping these people well that's just a lie they're taking the horses away from the border patrol that's how stupid uh the world is now they're based on that because the optic in their mind again it's not the reality it's it's the the narrative now that they can they can glom onto um they can now make decisions such as taking away one of the most effective tools you know uh with the border patrol in that part of of the country is the horse right and now they're going to take it away and so you've got jen saki up in washington dc proclaiming these things as if she's been an equestrian all her life and she understands exactly what she's talking about well that's exactly what she said taking away the uh the the uh horses from the border patrol yeah so then because of the optics that came from that oh she didn't say because of the optic but she
said because um it is effective well no they don't care it's again it's not tied to any logical reason that's the part that's so so bizarre it's not tied to because this happened we're doing x it's just because of this photo literally and now the media has walked the dog back a little bit and they've said okay yeah we get it those are reigns that's not a whip and so we understand okay is that instead of a loop that goes from one side of the horse's mouth to the other right it's two separate exactly yeah yeah and so it's pieces of leather yeah the reins are split right exactly what it's what it says and so that's again i keep going back to that one point which is it doesn't really matter what the facts are anymore it does it as an example today was now i'm kind of bouncing around a little bit but today was uh hearings up on the hill the senate armed services committee was holding hearings so who did they have they had secretary of defense lloyd austin they had uh centcom commander general mckenzie great guy they had the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff uh general milley so they all to the last one said yes uh we were advising the president that um you know our advice is to maintain a small troop presence minimum of 2 500 troops right uh in afghanistan um and our belief was not that it would collapse as quickly as it did but that it would collapse if you took those advisors those troops out that it would collapse maybe by fall this fall and yet you've got the president saying i don't recall being told any of that and that's okay now because no and nobody's questioning it right nobody's saying saying well hold on no how about some pushback how about saying what do you mean you don't recall this is one of the most important decisions you've made or will be making and you don't recall whether you're senior top military advisers were
telling you that in their advice keep the troops in there for a period of time and he's saying i don't remember and there's really no serious pushback this whole hearing if anybody wants to know what washington d.c is like and how that city runs i'd recommend maybe on thursday watching some more of these hearings uh on the afghanistan process because it's just on one hand it's very depressing it's just a [ __ ] show you've got the senators on the armed services committee who have been there who have been privy to all sorts of intelligence over the past few years right now sitting in a hearing to understand what happened what went wrong with the afghan withdrawal and they're all acting as if you know they could be surprised by this when when these politicians have been sitting up for capitol hill being briefed on this [ __ ] having the opportunity to ask questions doing all the things they should be doing but now because it's all theater now they get to sit in a hearing in front of some of this the senior military commanders and act as if they're a little bit surprised by all of this and oh my god how did it happen how could we prevent it from happening again senator shaheen actually asked that i think it was of millie saying you know how do we prevent this from happening again are you [ __ ] kidding happening again yeah that's your question jesus christ anyway it's it's it's i tell you what it was it was uh yeah it's it's been it's been a fascinating period of time let me ask you this so the the president has the ability to say whatever the you know like so if if someone advises him to leave 2 500 troops he has the ability to say i don't think so no troops yes yes he does so he can take all that advice and and the military leaders are saying look we provided this advice right and uh that's a strange thing right that one man right has the ability to make all these decisions i mean obviously this is what the president is right the commander-in-chief but one that one man
has the ability to make these economic decisions these decisions about health care these decisions about taxes these decisions about the military these decisions about the the future of the troops i mean there's even this discussion that they're uh they're throwing around about making it so troops that didn't that won't get vaccinated they get dishonorably discharged have you seen that no that's that's a new one on me a discussion that's true yeah i don't know i mean i don't even know if they can do that but there was a soldier and she she had made a video and she is releasing this video explaining what's happening that they're going to get discharged if they were refused to get vaccinated i can't believe they would dishonorably discharge them that would be that'd be a a real [ __ ] shock i think that's what they were doing see if that's true it might have been exaggerated in an article like for the headline yeah but i think that they're they're planning on doing something along those lines well look i mean it is i i think it does surprise people sometimes uh when they see the extent and if they if they were watching these these hearings and understanding the information flow about afghanistan look there was a lot of talk right and in the aftermath of this withdrawal clown show um that you know what what happened who was advising who how did we miss certain pieces of intelligence and there's a lot to uh to figure out there but the idea that that the president would sit there in his in his office uh with all these senior advisors around and they would say sir here's here are your options because that's always basically what they're doing and theoretically they you know they they are supposed to be strong enough to argue their point as strongly as possible right they're not there to just go along so they you know they all come in they say we think you should be you know keeping troops in there and the president then steps away and
now millie mckenzie others they all said that biden listened very you know seriously to them but there was a political decision here right that political decision was we're getting the hell out now the interesting thing is is that biden um he kind of wants to have it both ways right he wants to take credit for being brave and saying we're getting the hell out right but then he also wants to blame the previous administration for the reason why he had to be getting the hell out right so he wants to blame the doha agreement that trump signed in february of 2020. what was that well that was it when when the trump administration made a deal with the taliban and in uh in february of 2020 and basically it had conditions within that and and uh general millian mckenzie talked about those conditions i think today and they're in the hearings actually there were seven conditions placed on the taliban for this agreement to go forward and there was a may withdrawal date now the administration the previous administration people don't want to hear this [ __ ] right because they're so entrenched in their own camp right so people who are on the the hard left they're not going to want to hear the fact that the doha agreement was based on conditions right but the most senior military commanders today reaffirmed that yes there were seven conditions for that agreement to follow through for us to follow through we had eight conditions for the u.s and now during the course of the discussions and the negotiations and this whole agreement was based on a power sharing the idea was we want to create an opportunity for the taliban and the the afghan government we want them all to come together and create a power sharing agreement well you know on one hand you could argue and say that's that's never going to happen sounds crazy yeah it sounds crazy but that's that's where they were and you
could also argue and again you know because people are so entrenched no one's want to give any credit to whether they want to give credit to biden they want to give credit to trump or any republican president or democrat president you know the trump administration did kind of broker the hard uh heavy lift of saying we're getting the hell out right there had been talk around the edges in previous administrations about how long would it be there right but the drug administration did finally actually say [ __ ] it let's get a negotiation let's go and let's set a time time to get the [ __ ] out after 20 years right or wrong so they they put that on the table they set the table for for that you know hardline withdrawal but the taliban never met those conditions the only thing they did was not attack u.s troops directly but as millie and mackenzie said today they never met any of the other conditions so it had been explained to the taliban that if that was the case and you don't meet these conditions we're not going to leave in may we're going to just keep pushing the the withdrawal date further to the right so why was the decision made to withdraw then well look in part i think because uh i think everybody got behind the idea that we can't stay there forever because i think everybody you know understood that it just wasn't happening they weren't buying what we were selling they never have right i mean and you don't want to be completely fatalistic all the time but with afghanistan it's not a bad it's not a bad frame of reference to remember all the other times that things like this have failed and so the idea that somehow we were going to build a stable pseudo-democratic government in afghanistan was always flawed it was there was never really any evidence to show that that was going to happen and it was propped up and i think nobody
really wanted to tell the truth um in positions of leadership whether it was military or government or intel community and so i think there was general agreement that yeah we gotta we gotta get the [ __ ] out uh and then it came down to well how do we do that right and we faced some of the same problems that the old soviets faced getting the hell out of afghanistan but i think with this case you know part of it was we had pulled advisors off the afghan units you know two three years ago right that had been a process so the withdrawal process had been going on for a number of years you know over the past decade or so you know in a sense right we've be drawing back pulling out some resource pulling out troops lowering the troop numbers putting more responsibility on contractors and once you take the advisors out of the afghan units right in a sense you don't have really eyes and ears right inside the afghan military so you can have you know president ghani or you know some [ __ ] afghan commander just telling you whatever you want to hear but you didn't have a lot of folks at ground level working with the troops saying all right shit's not gonna hold right particularly after the doha agreement right once i think that the doha agreement was made i think the writings on the wall and even the afghan military could see it right and they could read it and they could say okay this shit's not gonna happen we're not gonna keep getting money we're not gonna keep getting advisors and uh we're not gonna get the air support that is really the only thing that keeps us in in power so you know at some point over a period of a few years we are we were degrading our own ability to to actually understand just how bad it was getting right and um so
then it became a logistical exercise you got to move personnel and you got to move material out of the country and that's where you could argue it all kind of went sideways well they left behind how much [ __ ] a lot of [ __ ] a lot of [ __ ] crazy [ __ ] right no we left we lost stocks yes yeah hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars as a conservative estimate uh why that's a conservative estimate well because uh partly because you could argue that um some of the material was decommissioned you know some of the heavier platforms were made non-functioning okay fine i don't know to answer the question i don't know why the military wouldn't have moved more of the gear that the the light gear out there in other words the the night vision devices the the uh the weaponry right the small arms uh ammunition why not spend three or four months right getting that gear the hell out right you don't have the troops to that require them right so now you've got all this [ __ ] stored now the thought could have been that this is for the afghan military they're going to hold but here's the here's the thing that that interesting point that came out from general million general mckenzie during these hearings is that they claim they're stating and i have no reason not to believe them they're stating that the general consensus by the fall of 2020 right was that without the troops in there once you take the us troops out and the um and the money then uh the government's going to collapse probably by fall of this year and it took like three hours yeah it took like it's a yeah it took 11 days now in a classic piece of washington speak i think it was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and answering a question said no we never saw any assessment that said that the government would collapse in 11 days he's very specific right he's not saying uh in short order yeah he's just saying 11 i didn't see one for 11 days i said we had one for like two weeks but uh so
that's that's that's just the [ __ ] that happens on the on the side so they assumed that the afghan army eventually was not going to fight the taliban yes yes so there was what they're saying is we all and look the intel community we've been talking about that for years we knew you had to do was study the the soviet papers during their time their occupation in afghanistan to understand how we were likely going to replay that scenario and we did right so you know you could argue that um what should have happened was years ago we should have like looked around and thought this is a [ __ ] exercise right doesn't mean that that you know and i think the military today uh the senior commanders today and during this week i think you'll see them make a huge effort to say first and foremost the veterans uh and and everyone who fought there and and and all the the the hardship it was and wasn't in vain i think they're going to focus on that and they're going to say because for two decades uh the you know we haven't been attacked on our home soil and in a narrow definition yes that's why we went in and then it kind of got blown up into this idea that we were going to create like this this bastion of democracy in afghanistan but it's been widely known forever that afghanistan is insane like it's impossible to manage yeah the soviets couldn't handle it you know the the the whole area is incredibly mountainous like it's very remote it consists of these little clans that are run by warlords like it's not it's like kabul is essentially the only real city right yeah are there are other cities there there are real cities there are but there are they're they're still run like little fiefdoms and and like them is a good word [Laughter] the spelling on the fifth of them while we're at f-e-e while we're talking to you did you find anything out about
the dishonorable discharge yeah so i had to dig through it i found starting like with this it says the white house opposes a provision banning it they so they oppose a provision banning dishonorable discharge so they keep it open well it's impossible so yeah again so yeah it hasn't happened yet and then like digging through the military.com i think was the best uh this one yeah so like here's a good explanation i think troopers who refuse to be inoculated may not be neces may not necessarily face dishonorable discharge or even separation according to kirby but i don't like that word made not necessarily i don't like that phrasing yeah that's that's that's definitely washington phrase yeah the pentagon has repeatedly stopped short of saying it will boot troops for refusing the shot commanders will have a range of options that stop short of punishment under the uniform code of military justice kirby said the services will also allow religious exemptions to the vaccine but that's a weird one couldn't like everybody say i got a religious exemption look at this i like actually there's a really good quote down here when an individual declines to take a mandatory vaccine they will be given an opportunity to talk to both their medical providers as well as their own chain of command yeah you know how excited they're going to be to go and talk to their own chain of command so that they can fully understand the decision they are making let me that sounds like that sounds like going into talking to a you know to a high value target i want you to fully understand the decision you're making right here go yeah um yeah that's look boy that that talk about a pivot but we'll go from from uh afghanistan yeah i just wanna or department over which one dominant person or group exercises control the duke's fiefdom had been greatly expanded as a reward for his dutiful military service on behalf of the king as it should have been it should have been because he was a fine fine lad so the point is that afghanistan is you can't really control it it's incredibly rugged terrain
you're not going to get vehicles in there right it's mostly mountainous areas unless you're flying helicopters if you don't have air support and that's really where this fell down and then they and and the idea there's been a lot of talk about why did we close back room right why did they close the air base before they'd finish this whole process right so i guess one of the things is this is very layered and and again as with just about everything else that goes on in the world today because everybody's got like an you know attention deficit disorder um nobody takes the time to look at all the various layers right so this fell down uh as you said before it fell into teams right so you're you're either uh pro-biden or you're you're or you're not right you're the pro-vaccine or you're not it's always and that's not the case right there's there's all sorts of ground in between those two positions and so i think with with uh with with bagram the idea was um in a sense that wasn't there necessarily because that's some programmer base is like 30 miles away from the u.s embassy in kabul and so would that have been an effective uh departure point you know for all the people we were looking to move out during the withdrawal okay you could argue it would be helpful right but it wasn't right there and that's our point well you know hamad karzai airport was right there it was much more immediate we needed to secure that and by the way if we were going to keep ogram open we needed you know upwards of five or six thousand troops to secure it right but it all comes back to this idea that you know the the agreement with the taliban because both sides are using it right in in in sort of an effort to cover their own ass so the democrats are using it because well we were boxed in we had no choice right look trump made a bad deal right and so we had to go with it right because if we didn't go with it the taliban would start attacking us again and then you know well yeah no [ __ ] right but there you go and the republicans are using it you know by
saying there were conditions built into the agreement and you didn't have to honor the agreement now that would have meant we would have had to probably put more troops in you know to secure the people that we already had there the advisors that were there so it's a morass right and over top of all that is this general feeling i think that most people had that it was time to leave right so again it's it's the process of leaving it wasn't the decision to leave it was the process of how you executed that and bagram was kind of a central point in that because if you could maintain air cover for the afghan military right during the point when you're withdrawing you can prevent the taliban from doing what they did which was that immediate you know overrun of the country they just they couldn't do it with our air support without our air support i mean so the questions that someone would have on the outside is did this ha when this happened did this strengthen the taliban and did it strengthen not just their the military position because they have all these new weapons and everything but did it also strengthen morale because they they now force the americans out and beat them and then punished all of the allies that worked with the americans which is devastating because you got to think now people are going to be way more reluctant to cooperate with americans and help them in a cert in a similar situation because we kind of abandoned all those people that were translators all those people that there was a lot that got left behind right yeah there were and and some got rescued yeah they they you know they're claiming i think they're look what's happening is is they're trying to say look the withdrawal process was a huge success um and uh i think yeah oh yeah well president biden said this was an extraordinary success the whole process now i think strategically you could argue that it's not a success you know from a logistical operation did they lift a lot of people out of the country in a short order of time yes but was it chaotic absolutely did things happen that shouldn't have had to happen
yes so i i i think it's really hard to define this as a success but you get you know in their position they gotta spin it the best they can but if you think about you know what you're what you were just saying in a small sense it's tough enough if i if i'm in afghanistan and i'm trying to develop sources uh inside the country while i'm there that can tell me about uh a taliban movement right so i'm trying to convince some tribal elder somewhere for whatever reason maybe his kid was killed by the taliban right maybe the taliban you know uh took his you know underage daughter into marriage maybe they denied him medical care whatever you're always looking for it doesn't matter whether it's this case or whether you're recruiting anybody you're always looking for a point of weakness right in a sense it sounds wrong but you're looking for leverage and so i'm trying to convince this this person to work with me right and provide me with intelligence well now that's that's counter to his best interest in a sense right because he's probably gonna think okay well if i get found out i'm getting whacked so it's not gonna end well for me now imagine trying to do that now when you don't have a presence on the ground you still need that insight you still need those people reporting to you but now you've just you know gotten off the x and left some people there and you've you've bugged out and they look at this and go well what the hell is now is my incentive for helping the americans providing them and this feeds into i'm jumping all over the [ __ ] place this feeds into this this talk now that's become the favorite phrase in washington of uh over the horizon capability which means conducting operations from a distance because you don't have resources within that area of operations so you're you're over the horizon but you're going to dip in occasionally whenever you need to and carry out some type of operation and
um so yeah to answer your question it it it makes it very very difficult morale was was uh uh was already not good um once the doha agreement i think uh was signed and again look i think you know the doha agreement somebody had to finally memorialize the idea that we're getting the [ __ ] out of afghanistan right right and so they did is that is it a good thing that we got out of afghanistan um in a very pragmatic sense um yes yeah because um i don't know what the hell we were doing there i mean the idea was fine we go in initially and we punish those who are responsible for 9 11. right and we and we tell them don't let this happen again and then we should have gotten the hell out right and and avoided the last 20 years because we'd had a recent case study with the russians we knew from what the russians did there that you know how it could end and how it likely could end and yet we thought because you know there's always hubris involved we thought we're going to do better look the taliban had no place to go when the russians were there right so they're just going to wait it out it's like vietnam the viet cong had nowhere to go they're going to wait right they know we're rolling troops out there on a you know six or eight or 12-month deployment they're going to go home you know and they want to get home these people have no place to go taliban again same thing this time around so i don't know why we anybody should be surprised about the overall result but yes i do think it was it was time to go i think it was time to go quite some time ago that was very poetic but anyway yeah it's uh it's just nobody spoke the truth in washington about the situation in afghanistan because nobody wanted to hear it right and they felt that it wasn't politically a good move and so nobody wanted to stand up
because they're all so [ __ ] worried about their jobs and say this is my opinion so what's that what it's worth and say the tough things about the situation there either because they felt like if i say something negative about what we're doing in afghanistan it's disrespecting the troops which it's not right or um you know i'll probably get drummed out of my you know nice political position right so yeah that's that's and and when you watch hearings that take place in washington dc the whole thing is about just finding somebody to blame other than your own self or your party and it seems like no one's gonna get blamed no one's gonna get blamed no no that would that would that would mean that there would be accountability and and i don't think i don't know when that happened last in washington dc so how do you think they could have pulled out and made it less of a [ __ ] well i think they have to look they pulled the advisors out there there were two parts to this right there's the there's the there's the whatever they call it the retrograde right and and drawing down the troops right getting and and the troops that we had there right the 2500 basically to train advise and assist that's very very important right for the for the for the presence it almost becomes at that troop level almost becomes an optic but that's still important to boost uh the ability of the afghan military to hold their [ __ ] together and this 2500 was the one that they had advised that they leave behind yeah what was the total amount of troops that were there before we pulled out it was coming down it was uh before i think before the inauguration we were probably in the five to four thousand range we had uh probably 3 000 or so paramilitary troops there from the agency we probably had i don't know how many contractors you know a few thousand more contractors so it was a significant st at that point it was a significant presence but was a significant draw down
from even a couple of years ago right so again the drawdown had been happening right um and it's and and if you look at and so you had that you had the retrograde of the of the military operation and then you had this evacuation right or this was withdrawal of all the you know uh diplomatic personnel other americans there the sivs all those people and that you could consider as sort of a separate operation and that's the withdrawal part of the whole thing that took place that seemed so chaotic and and and was right but the military also you know look the military is very good at planning a variety of scenarios right so it's not like they didn't think there's a chance this whole thing goes to [ __ ] right and so they pre-positioned troops um they had a lot of you know uh air assets available right but again it's a at a certain point you could think of it in terms of a ups operation right you're moving in this case you're moving people and you're moving stuff right and i i just think that we we completely botched the job of understanding how shitty the government and military capability was there right and that's that you know is is down to bad intelligence it's down to political maneuvering in washington and just a desire to get the hell out and maybe ignoring assessments because whether you're saying your assessment is as general mckenzie and general miller are saying is that you know by the end of 2020 they were basically saying advising the president and his team that um things could fall to [ __ ] in a matter of months right or whether you're saying things could fall a [ __ ] in a matter of a couple of weeks you have to plan for the worst case scenario that's that's your job so their their default position should have been this thing's going to collapse in a couple hours and and they didn't do that and i'm not
quite sure you know why but and i i don't suspect we're ever going to get full transparency on this because again it's not the way washington works do you get concerned when you see all this um sort of woke ideology making its way into the military i know you've seen these oh yeah you know what i'm talking about yeah i do yeah yeah yeah um yeah i got a lot of calls about the uh the cia recruitment uh video yeah what the [ __ ] was that explain that to me yeah that was um um look somebody somebody decided that the right messaging for trying to improve recruitment ability uh for the agency and mind you the agency isn't lacking in in candidates right we have a a lot of people applying uh for the agency uh but at some point someone thought the right message was to just go all out on the whatever you want to call it the woke issue and the you know inclusion and and so they had a they had a an individual who basically spent her time talking while she said she didn't want to be identified in such a manner or such a manner that she then proceeded to identify herself in these various you know uh categories right um and i i just think somebody should have test marketed that that message inside the agency first before they decided to run with it because they got they you know they took a lot of heat you know and people just thought it was ridiculous uh but i get what they're doing you know you have to have from an operational perspective you know set aside all the woke issues and the desire to be inclusive and everything just from an operational perspective you know you want an intel service uh that is remarkably diverse because you're operating all over the world right and and you don't want everybody to have the same mindset and the same ideas and sitting around a table dealing with a potential problem because they're all going to throw the same idea at it right right so you want a variety of
personalities and backgrounds and everything but i just think that they you know they they could have test marketed that one a little better but it's not just about the agency too there was there was another one that was uh who who was the person that was put in charge of like there was a someone who was put in charge of inclusiveness and diversity in the military right yeah wasn't there yeah and people like hey hey what the [ __ ] is this about your this is all woke talk and when woke talk invades the military like what yeah to me is like well-intentioned people that have bought into a cult that's what a lot of it is you know it's like well-intentioned like if you look at that like we should i guess yeah we should celebrate all of our differences and we should have people that feel comfortable in all walks of life whether it's gay straight bi trans black white mexican asian everyone should be included yeah and it should be a meritocracy based on your performance and you should look at you know all these factors that make this united states a wonderful place with all these different kinds of human beings and we should celebrate that but it's not just that it's highlighting that to the point of that being the primary concern the primary concern being inclusiveness and diversity and highlighting these various minority groups yeah highlighting them to the point where you're thinking about that more you're thinking about anything else operational effectiveness or capability experience um are running into this problem where they they have to have a certain amount of people regardless of their qualifications that fit these certain criterias and people are going well this is not good for our overall bottom line this is not good for the the machine that we're running what you're doing is you're doing something that's good for your optics right but you could perhaps hire someone who is lesser qualified but has these very specific characteristics that you think will appeal to the woke
crowd the problem with that is the woke crowd is never satisfied oh no they will keep pushing left to the end of time until we're in a communist [ __ ] they're not going to stop well you know and that's i i think some people miss that sometimes you're never ever ever no matter who you are and what your thought process is and what you believe you're never going to be righteous enough for the mob you're never pure enough for the mob thank you and that is absolutely true yeah and i think everybody no matter where you are in that political spectrum and what your beliefs are you might want to keep that in mind yeah because it's not they're not really you know the whole idea is this is the they're about kindness and consideration that's horseshit they're about control and they're they're using kindness and consideration inclusiveness all these things as talking points to allow them to exercise control this is an ideology it's a cult it really is it's a weird one it's a weird one because it's sort of embedded itself in our universities and then now it's made its way into corporations and when i see it in the military i get very [ __ ] concerned because my my concern is how do we know that this [ __ ] isn't manipulated and put into there by foreign governments by by foreign intelligence agencies i'm sure you've seen that video from uh did you ever see the video from the kgb uh there was a guy from the kgb in the 1980s it was talking about the plan to destroy america have you ever seen that video i have yeah i know what you're talking about it's a wild video should we play it yeah do you know the video jamie if it's still up and running oh play a little bit of this this is kgb defector yuri bezem besmanov's warning to america let's listen to some of this before about ideological subversion that is a phrase that i'm afraid some americans don't fully understand when the soviets use the phrase ideological subversion what do they mean by it ideological subversion is is the process which is legitimate overt and open you can see it with your own
eyes all you have to do all american mass media has to do is to unplug their bananas from their ears open up their eyes and they can see it there's no mystery there's nothing to do with espionage i know that espionage intelligence gathering looks more romantic it sells more deodorants through the advertising probably that's why hollywood producers are so crazy about james bond type of thrillers but in reality the main emphasis of the kgb is not in the area of intelligence at all according to my opinion and opinion of many defectors of my caliber only about 15 percent of time money and manpower is spent on espionage as such the other 85 percent is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion or active measures actively mere priyatiya in the language of the kgb or psychological warfare what it basically means is to change the perception of reality of every american to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves their families their community and their country it's a great brainwashing uh process which goes very slow and it's divided in four basic stages the first one being demoralization it takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation why that many years because this is the minimum number of years which requires to educate one generation of students in the country of of your enemy exposed to the ideology of the enemy in other words marxism leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of of at least three generations of american students without being challenged or counter balanced by the basic values of americanism american patriotism the result the result you can see most of the people who graduated in 60s dropouts or half-baked intellectuals are now occupying the positions of power in the government civil service business mass media educational system you are stuck with them you cannot get rid of them they are contaminated they are programmed to think and react to certain
stimuli in a certain pattern you cannot change their mind even if you if you expose them to authentic information even if you prove that white is white and black and is black you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior in other words these people uh the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible to get rid society of these people you have you need another 20 or or 15 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and and common common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of of the of the united states society and yet these people have been programmed and as you say in place and who are favorable to an opening with the soviet concept these are the very people who would be marked for extermination in this country most of them yes simply because the psychological shock when when they will see in future what the what the beautiful society of equality and social justice means in practice obviously they will revolt they will they will be very unhappy frustrated people and the marxist leninist regime does not tolerate these people uh they obviously they will join the links of these centers dissidents uh unlike in present united states there will be no place for this end in future marxist leninist america uh here you can you can get uh popular like uh daniel ellsberg and filthy rich like jane fonda for being dissident for criticizing your pentagon in future these people will be simply squashed like cockroaches nobody is going to pay them nothing for their we're seeing this happen right now i mean this goes on this is a 13-minute video the title of it is kgb defector yuri bes menov's warning to america you should watch it it's on youtube it's [ __ ] wild and it's so accurate it is exactly what's happening this guy was talking about it in the 1980s when was it in the 1990s 29 years ago 2013 so
yeah but that's when it was posted i don't believe it's from that i believe it's from the 1980s can you scroll down and see if it says it didn't say as i was looking maybe in the comments but desmond of uh i'm trying to think of yeah i'm pretty sure see it says 29 years ago he said it so yeah what is that what's 29 i mean it doesn't matter he could be talking he could be talking to 82 if it's or 84. 84. yeah i think it's 80. he could be talking in in the 1950s but it says 29 years ago from 2013. 85.55 okay so imagine how accurate that is i mean imagine that this guy first of all he's talking about social justice back then that was a term that really didn't make its way into the the vernacular of the american public until about 10 15 years ago i mean when you really started hearing social justice as a common term yeah like when was that well that was even more recent than than 10 or 15 years ago probably most people yeah let's say just say 10. so this is like we've resisted as long as we can but we're [ __ ] you know i was watching this video on my favorite uh uh twitter channel libs of tiktok because it is insane some of these [ __ ] kids that are coming up through these universities that are saying these buzzwords and talking points as if they make sense and they're talking about the the destruction of the american civilization like the destruction of the american country that it needs to happen in order for people to be fair and free and i'm like and replace with what like this is the thing it's like you have these shallow minded very narrow perspectives of what they would like to accomplish with no view whatsoever of what the future looks like whereas this guy this kgb defector is talking about this very long game that the kgb was playing with the united states yeah well and they don't you know they they're not the only ones right the chinese intelligence services is uh is is actually much more patient
than the russians even but but what he's talking about what desmond i was talking about in terms of active measures you know we might call in the u.s what i call covert action campaign it's it really is now he's he's lowballing the amount of resource they spend on on actual you know intel operations and other things but he's making a very important point which is from their perspective you get more bang for your buck from the active measures campaigns and we've been doing you know look every intel service that's you know worth its weight is is in a sense doing the same thing um you could argue that how do we do it like you could argue with china voice of america as a matter as an example fast and furious nine is that what they're doing with that oh yeah yeah yeah i mean that's well it's it's our it's our movies it's our blue jeans it's our rock albums um uh that uh destroyed the soviet union um but we've we look what what he's saying there all those years ago all you have to do is look at the way that the misinformation campaigns have been going that the russians have been working on during the past six years five years right where in part one of the things they're doing is to your earlier point they're they're using sort of our woke culture right and they're they're they're turning it into a wedge right and so they they understand that if you can if you can create chaos or or uh you know ratchet up the pressure from whether it's racism or or sort of the divide between the right and the left whatever it may be that's to their advantage and so that's what they do they start out by saying how do we influence public opinion and just like a marketing uh firm right they do all of the things that you would think right they study they do all the analysis of how do you shift an audience uh even five or six degrees to one side or the other of an argument right and then you multiply that unlike a marketing campaign which is looking to get returns for shareholders over the course of the next
year or the next couple of quarters because they want to sell more coke or whatever they're doing um you know as you pointed out they're talking about 20 years 30 years 40 years right so that in part makes it even more effective it's it's nothing new the russians have been doing this they were doing it during world war ii right um you know and and so it's it's not a it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody but people don't they don't see it when it's right in front of them right they just read their twitter feed or they read their something on on youtube or they read something on instagram and they take it at face value and it just inflames them a little bit further right and it confirms you know what they because look this this thing says it nobody does the research nobody wants to go two or three or four steps to figure out what's how did this thing originate where's this from right who's saying this and are we being manipulated we're big manipulated absolutely and it's not just again it's not just the russians the chinese are engaged in the same game right they understand if you can create dissent within the us and everything that was being done in the last election was designed to create this trust of the election system whether it's from the right or the left right they ultimately do they give a [ __ ] who wins not really they just want to create the chaos and the distrust of the system and that is important from their end game that's that's what they're really striving for it's not it's you know so and we don't again we don't see it because it's staring us in the face and we can't get our noses out of our phones and we believe whatever's put in front of us and everybody gets further and further siloed into their own opinion and then you got you got nothing right it's also there's so much emphasis put on boogeyman right the boogeyman of donald trump like he's the boogeyman he's he's bad this is what the problem is and ignoring like like the the the clinton russia
collusion story right i don't know if you've been paying attention to russell brand yeah russell brand yeah this is a crazy thing because russell brown who i love dearly i think he's awesome he's but he was this comedic actor and stand-up comedian and now he's become one of the most trusted journalists yeah in some weird way right like he's a guy like when he talks about stuff he's got his notes right he's very informed and he's discussing like what clinton was saying that trump was doing they were actually doing yeah they were actually colluding with russia like it's actually a real thing yeah and nobody nobody wants to revisit i mean nobody has a nobody has an interest in revisiting anything because it doesn't again it doesn't verify their nobody wants to go back and say well we might have made a mistake and so we don't want to and and yes you're right people don't explain it well and so it becomes too complicated and i think [ __ ] i got to cook dinner or i gotta do i'm not gonna bother right i just wanna read this top line you know two or three sentences and then that's that's my opinion um yeah it's like yeah yeah but russell brandt good point it's like what's his name uh uh jeff uh skunk baxter from the doobie brothers has become like a noted uh military uh you know technology authority is he really yeah oh he's been up on capitol hill from the doobie brothers adobe brothers yeah i think i i'm pretty sure i got my my guy right uh been up on the hill testifying about you know uh you know weapons and military development and where did he get educated on this i don't know i don't know uh michael mcdonald maybe i'm not sure maybe he was like a cia plant all the time you know that's like one of the big theories about a lot of the stuff that happened during the 1960s right because wasn't jim morrison's dad in the agency i don't know about jim morrison uh stuart copeland from the police his dad was yeah yeah um i think it was like jim morrison's dad was some sort of intelligence operative is that correct
jim morrison might have been as well done according to that yeah his father was the rear admiral in charge during the gulf of tonkin oh oh well there you go then well that's about as [ __ ] as [ __ ] he gets right so now we figured out the vietnam war uh yeah uh oh god no but that the the besmond i think i think i i'm glad you pulled that up because that is something that people should watch and and and and take away something from because it does talk about the idea of manipulation and but again what's going to happen is you know people who have a certain mindset are going to look at that and go oh that's [ __ ] right i mean if they're on if they're on the hard left or they you know they believe that you know marxism is the way to go now what you're not going to ever change their mind just like somebody on the hard hard right's not going to change their mind right um and so once again you're left with a dwindling center um but uh speaking of weapons technology the us just uh tested a hypersonic weapon and that's that's something to keep an eye on when people are thinking where where's all the money going uh next uh i mean it's it's really the top priority for the u.s it's the top priority for russia's top party for china so anyway the u.s just the other day successfully tested a a new uh there you go a new way of breathing hypersonic 5 hypersonic missile what does mach 5 mean that's about five times the speed of sound it's about 3 800 and the change in terms of miles per hour 3 800 some odd miles five times the speed of sound yeah yes i know and and the whole idea is when people say well why is hypersonics why is that important um it's because whoever develops this capability first uh on on the on the planet basically has defeated all air defense systems right which in the past were always designed for ballistic missiles and so it's it moves at such a rate that you've removed the reaction time and it also can move in such an
unpredictable fashion a ballistic missile goes up and it comes down and it's all in a certain pattern yeah um mile a second yeah so you can imagine that coming and you imagine having no time to react because you don't even know where it's coming from right so basically that's why hypersonic weapons and the ability to counter them is really the the top technology priority for the us and it's where a lot of them a lot of you we'll talk about where money goes so where a lot of money goes and because the russians and the chinese are busy busy busy trying to develop this because whoever does it again it renders existing air defense systems uh useless which brings me to ufos tell me what you know [Laughter] well if i if i may i think there's some [ __ ] going down there is some [ __ ] going down and it's actually really interesting and this would be a perfect time for me to plug the second season of uh of my science channel discovery network series black files declassified science channel black files declassified hosted by mike baker look at that enhancement pastor look at you now run a global intelligence and security firm my experiences have given me unique insight and access to a secretive world [Music] each year the us government hides over 60 billion dollars in a black budget hidden away unseen unexplained holy smokes look at that look look at the light holy [ __ ] the money funds classified programs projects operations and tech developments and each of these activities is a black file now travel with me as we open up the black files what you learn will change the way you think about our past and our future look at that that looks very exciting mike everybody should be watching it's coming to you in the new year um are you going to tell people what's going on with ufos what was the thing with the red lights that shot up there
it's a drone swarm it's a drone swarm let's just keep watching it put it on continuous loop for yeah that drone swarm right there yeah yeah it's a drone swarm how big are those drones they look tiny they are tiny and that's uh that's that's part of the uh the that's real that's not like sea no that's that's real there were a hundred of those there oh look at that there yeah you've got that look on his face so that that just rise up there's about a hundred of those they're all what they're doing at that point is it they're they're programmed they're computer-controlled they're all going to a designated uh altitude and then they'll take off and they can fly in whatever pattern you end up putting them into and these are uh these are what map weaponized drones are they like uh armed they're uh those are not those are displayed abilities yeah they could be surveillance drones they could but you can weaponize them and that's the that's part of the concern in terms of where um uh the battlefield could take us in the future is and and i mean think about a drone storm coming in on a high level event for instance right the ability to to stop 100 200 drones uh that are maneuvering now the goal ultimately is to get those to think on their own right so you'll have like a a queen bee out there controlling um a whole pack of these things and with artificial intelligence they can make decisions on the fly right they're not quite there yet but they are to the point where uh you can you can program a swarm of these things uh to do a variety of uh tasks and if you weaponize them again you can you can see where the problem lies in trying to stop that and from uh if you're responsible for security uh of a high-level uh target or or individual or event so it's a it's it's it's a fascinating field um and the idea that i mean think about if you're on if you're in pick a place we're not in afghanistan anymore apparently we talked about that i think but if you're if you're in serbia or you're in kabul or you're in mogadishu whatever
and you've got boots on the ground but but limited boots on the ground the ability to throw out a drone swarm to do the recon of a facility and depending on what those capabilities are and and you know whether they've got you know uh fleur or whatever they may be operating on to to gather intelligence about what's ahead right i mean it's it gives you a tremendous advantage just from the recon the surveillance point of view much less that you know that i'm not even talking about the the weaponized and these small they're very small so what's the range of these things and what's what powers them um you know that's it that's where i like what do i look like a drone engineer uh but it seems like a question that i would ask if i was hosting a television show i did they didn't tell you uh no they did um you can get depending on the size of the drone you you can get uh uh distances that would be not you know not extensive right now you're not talking about um you're not talking about uh you know a a drone produced by uh northrop or boeing whether it's going to be up in the air for three days you're talking about something that's going down range maybe a couple of miles right um and is uh up and active for maybe on a battery charge maybe anywhere to 20 minutes 30 minutes and so these things think about that that queen bee up there right they can they can then go and get recharged right you don't have to come back to where you can get staging here yeah yeah so you can come back and and you don't have to come back to the staging site they can so it's it's like a refueling tanker so what does it look like this thing that they the mother ship that they've got basically a mother ship yeah and they fly to and just stick on to it or something like that just a larger drone uh with with more juice more capability and so it can it charges up and it it's uh and again the goal for all of this is to is to ultimately get to uh artificial intelligence capability right whether they can get there any time in
the near future you know is problematic but the big question is who gets there first right who gets their first and that's that's the case with just about everything now nowadays whether it's you know space um and worrying about i'm like space has already been weaponized right the idea of space in the 60s was it's a community of nations and we're all going to live together that's [ __ ] right we're already up there worried about how do you how do you take out the satellites or how do you approach a satellite uh covertly uh to uh maybe gather intel from a chinese satellite that's up there or the chinese going after one of our satellites space is weaponized at this point um so yes everything that goes on is in a sense based on um the competition now i'm not letting you off the hook with ufos but i want to get to this while we're talking about china and artificial intelligence sagar from breaking points put up a video recently where he was talking about there was an ai company that sold 50 or 51 percent to china and they that china immediately repurposed the entire company and sort of kicked them out and renamed it it's calling something different they have no recourse and they now now hold all of the artificial intelligence that this company had this company thought they were going to work with them and make a bunch of money and china just sort of took it over yeah because they had like a 51 control of it and now they're [ __ ] because they changed the name of it they're calling it chinese technology sagar did a way better job of uh explaining it than i can to see if you can find it but no but that's but that's what's happened to a variety of companies that always seem to think that they could do business with the chinese regime yeah and come out on top or they agreed on right yeah they think of all these billions of dollars they're going to make from this deal and they start thinking about ski chalets and driving a ferrari and then next thing you know
they're you know yeah no it's true and and and so whether it's a pharmaceutical company thinking they're going to go over and somehow protect their r d yeah but build a facility over there yeah and suddenly you know or it's a software company that loses all their you know their coding it's it's always the same result it's amazing that they don't know that or that they're willing to listen to what the chinese are selling them you know on the on the subject like yeah we love you we're gonna work with you and then boom they just change the name completely repurpose all the technology say it's chinese technology when when sagar was explaining it it's it's a stunning story well see if we can find have you found it yet and it happens it happens uh a lot more often and then some very pedestrian uh companies and and sectors but it's it's just emblematic of the chinese understand and have understood for for generations the lure of their market to the west right everybody's wanted to get into that market right whether insurance business or or energy or pharmaceuticals or whatever it may be oh my god i want to get i got to get into that market and they've understood that and so they manipulate that they use that as leverage and they never give a [ __ ] about sort of the the end result where you get screwed right it doesn't matter to them right because they win at the end in the end and just as with this case they end up with the with the technology or the the the working i guess that's it yes yes this is it give it give me some volume and pray that plays from the beginning this is pretty [ __ ] all right sagar what are you looking at well some of you may recall that in the video announcing crystal and i were going independent i mentioned one of the reasons we wanted to do so was so we didn't just have to chase views but so we could focus on more substantive issues that belie the new cycle and our economy i specifically pointed to semiconductors as you all know one of my personal obsessions because they are the electronic backbone of the new economy he who controls semiconductors controls the future not
quite true yet but it will be in my opinion and that's what i want to take you on a tour of today one of the most brazen views yet into the corporate battles of the future and a development which has immense implications for the future they're calling it the semiconductor heist of the century it's dramatic i know but once you learn the details you'll be as outraged and as afraid as i am so the company in question is known as arm or arm they are widely regarded as the most important semiconductor intellectual property firm their ip is in cars it's amazon cell phones ai everything pretty much everything intel semi-analysis they point towards clearly an important company right now as we have learned with the car shortage the ps5 shortage and more the entire us economy can grind to a halt without these things now prior to 2016 arm was a british controlled company but corporations are gonna corporation and in 2016 it was acquired by a japanese firm softbank you probably know softbank from their storied roles in the drama behind wework and uber pouring saudi cash into the startups to create the veneer success and eventually having the bottom fell out of both now softbank's plan to make arm even more money is the same thing that they did with uber they wanted them to enter the chinese market so in their infinite wisdom they created a joint venture it was called arm holdings and they sold 51 percent to a chinese investors for 775 million dollars that persona analysis is a paltry sum but it highlights what it means to do business in china there's no such thing as independent business there all western businesses have to have chinese partners they are controlled at the behest of the chinese state and this is where things get really crazy the chinese branch of arm it holds much of arm's intellectual property and designs for the next decade well it's basically been stolen now by the chinese with zero recourse i'm really serious the details are crazy and they highlight exactly why letting our most valuable technology go to china in the first place and why business entanglements there are untenable in the long run in 2020 arm and a bunch of investors found that the head of their china operation was using his control of the company to attract investments to
his other firm so by a vote of seven to one at the board level they decided to boot him there's just one problem that ceo's name is on the chinese license so despite the fact that the company wants him gone alan wu he's not going anywhere because he controls the license so instead under chinese law he's in control he fired executives who didn't side with him he now has security that has kept representatives from his parent company out of the building and now he's just taking it over so this culminated this week when arm china just held an event where they declared their independence they have a new name now they say they are china's largest cpu ip supplier that is now independently operated by as a chinese-owned company now critically the technology that they preview and claim is their own but really is just the ip and resources of its old company is now being used to deploy billions of cameras across china to fulfill their dream of a fully integrated technological surveillance state social credit score is everywhere everywhere you go is tracked your travel is restricted and the state knows everything about everyone all the way down to the dna level so that's it it's over they control the company now as semiconductor people are referring to it it really is the heist of the century so um we should just uh first of all shout out to crystal and sagar from breaking points it's one of the best [ __ ] shows oh you got cigars yeah yeah you come with gifts literally one of the best shows that you can watch on the news and get an independent real objective perspective because they're honest and not controlled by anybody and they cover stories like this you're just not getting from anywhere else and that to me is a terrifying story he's yeah and he's absolutely right um and although the the thing that he showed in there which was the uh one in five north american companies you know claimed that they had ip stolen the past year is so [ __ ] low is it really it's um and they said like seven out of 23 companies i think it just said uh further down that uh point said um uh seven out of 23 companies uh said they'd had iep stolen over the past decade again it's ridiculous here's the honest
guys truth if you take a company over there and you build facilities uh you are giving up intellectual property maybe not all of it but they're gonna take what they can get their hands on and so that number when it says one out of five should probably be five out of five and it should be 23 out of 23. it's just and we do this all the time we we uh underestimate we underestimate the uh where am i at here we underestimate the sorry the the numbers and i just uh i don't know what it is about this lack of desire to to call them out for for what they do and part of it is i i get it if you're if you're running a business um and you've got facilities over there you've got personnel you've got investment over there okay fine i get it i get why you're being somewhat cautious but the reality is that you know until we start really being serious with them and even then i don't you know what i'm going to stop right there because nothing's going to change their behavior right the chinese regime is what it is um and certainly under xi who has strengthened uh his position immensely over the past few years uh they're not changing so how did they allow them to do business like this why is like how is there no sort of oversight with such a critical aspect of technology right you semiconductors is this is a huge issue yeah and for the chinese to have control of this intellectual property that was developed over here simply because somebody underestimated their ability of for to commit [ __ ] like how how does that so simple i mean that seems like such a simple takeover that they did that yeah it's um in part you get uh you know the part there's just there's there's bad advice in part there's greed right i mean it's you know oh my god we get 770 million uh there's no due diligence there's poor due diligence that's a big part of it i know that's a lot of money yeah but it's not a lot of money if you're talking
about the whole world and control of the semiconductor market and the control that they're going to be able to have using their surveillance state and their social credit score and with how that's going to impact china no it's not it and you're absolutely right it's not it's not a lot of money but um in the scheme of things you you know people get excited you know i'm going to make this deal right we're going to get this this thing's going to get done um we're all going to like you so we're all gonna get our new boats and our ski chalet and it's gonna be fantastic uh yeah i i don't know i mean i've seen uh you know i've got a company that does you know one of the things we do is a lot of due diligence and with uh with uh china i've seen a lot of bad due diligence done over the years we'll get reports saying well this is what we we got two years ago you know what can we learn now about the company and it's its principles and and you have to really dig when you're talking about looking at a potential investment or personnel there whatever it may be you've got to just keep digging because the first batch of information you see is is usually not correct or it's obfuscated or there's a second set of books somewhere or a third set of books and you know people people are keen to get an investment done right usually when you're talking about an investment the overall goal is to make it happen it's not to find a reason to to to shelve it right so that that part of it makes sense i guess in a way i don't know it does make sense in a way but do we have the way that china can do this and the way that china can take over a business simply by investing in it and pretending to be in partnership with them but then do the everything they do is connected completely to the chinese communist party right so there's really you're just doing business with the chinese communist party you're pretending that you're doing business with another
corporation yes i mean and some some some entities there are more state-owned than others right well it varies yeah but but that's a nuanced variation right so you have levels i guess you could say of chinese state interest in a particular business or a sector right um and so but ultimately ultimately no you never have complete control in a commercial sense so at some point the chinese state is always going to have the ability to override any business decision that's being made um but you just have you have to some degree you have different um levels of interest again based on what that you know interest or particularly technology ai um anything in engineering that's going to be of more interest than sort of straight up manufacturing it seems to me and this is a horrible thing to say but there's an advantage that they have that's almost unstoppable in being connected to the government that we just simply don't have and they can take advantage of the fact that people are greedy right if people do look at this and go hey this is a great score for us here we're going to make 500 and whatever million dollars let's get on board like wouldn't it be this is where it's going to sound [ __ ] up wouldn't it be advantageous for us to have a similar relationship with corporations when these corporations want to make deals with other countries again i'm not advocating that the government get involved in corporations right but what i'm saying is they're at a huge disadvantage if the chinese communist party is always involved in deals and in all the corporations and they're inexorably connected to these corporations if we're not and you let some knuckleheads who are thinking about getting that house in tahoe and they are thinking about getting a private jet and they're thinking about all that money and not the ramifications on the global market the ramifications on uh you know the surveillance state what that's going to happen how it's going to impact right like the the they're they're
allowing this intellectual property to get taken away from them it's it's yeah you're talking about is it a level playing field um right for you know countries coming in uh companies coming in from other places and and the answer is honestly no um it's a completely unlevel playing field in china and they don't really try to hide that fact right unlike some places i mean look you can go to to other countries uh france or wherever you may go and you could argue that because the government views part of their responsibility as bolstering their commercial sector right and you know okay you can argue you know the us everybody everybody wants every country wants their their commercial you know industries to do well but france or or a variety of other countries around the globe they have sort of a much more connected line between government intel services other parts of their their uh their government to promote and uh protect and help bolster their commercial businesses right so you get an airbus situation like in france um and that is not necessarily uncommon right here in the u.s we have a we have a firewall built up right so that the idea is we don't want to we don't want to help a particular company because that would screw the the sort of idea of free markets right so you don't want to if you gather intel that could benefit uh a company um in a particular sector well you don't provide that to the company because that gives them an advantage over other businesses and that's counter to the idea of a free market system right so um and i know people listening to god ah it's [ __ ] that's it but it's the way it actually works right and it's very frustrating to some folks in the intel community and within the government that we always are uh at a disadvantage oftentimes in doing business in pitching for business overseas whether it's licensing whether it's uh you know in the energy business whatever it may be um and and and china being the you know primary example of a place where you walk in and
you should understand immediately that you're at a disadvantage when you're dealing with the the chinese system the chinese regime it's just the way they put it together and their theft of intellectual property their economic espionage everything is designed um to get them to the top of the food chain that's all it's it's that's their rightful place as far as the regime's concerned and everything yeah and that and that's where they're going i mean honest to god if you know if we're not careful if we're not and and that you know you could argue the horses left the barn because that's what we're doing yeah yeah and and you're right to be worried because you know we're not talking about something people imagine that because uh the previous administration under trump because they banged on about china you know over the past four years that somehow it's it's a new problem and and it's you know we've talked about this before it's not it's been going on for for generations so but it seemed like trump was unusually uh cautious about it and highlighting it in a way that other administrations hadn't highlighted it yeah i think that's yeah definitely we talked about it more during the previous administration than and in more realistic terms in terms of the chinese looking to host us in a variety of markets and places in ways that they were doing it um and highlighting the idea of uh of uh theft of intellectual property yeah it was a much more straightforward conversation and i think that's a very good thing i'd like to think that the current administration under president biden's going to continue with that um but again do i think that sanctions or do i think that uh you know a hard line is going to impact the regime enough to change their ways and suddenly they're going to i mean like under president obama the idea was well we've talked with them they're they're not going to engage in in theft of intellectual property they're not going to engage in cyber shenanigans well that was that didn't work out right so i don't know that
there's anything that's going to alter their their view because in their mind it's a strategic decision it's how they're getting to the top of the food chain and it seems like at this point in time this is what scares me that one of the only ways we may be able to keep up is to implement the same sort of strategy that they're doing that's what scares me that the government here gets intertwined with corporations that a social credit score here gets employed that we we start doing some of the same things that they're doing in order to keep up yeah um is that real i don't think no never say never but um at least for the time being it uh it really runs counter like again i you can only base it on on what you've seen in your own experiences and when i talk about this firewall that exists you know between the government um and the commercial sector in terms of you know promoting and and helping and you know and uh advising and providing uh you know uh support um it uh it exists right and i don't know that we're it's probably it's it's probably not gonna change you know regardless of what administration comes in it just seems like it's it's ingrained in the system at this point and it always means we're going to be uh at a disadvantage it always means that we're to some degree in a variety of places around the world operating on an unlevel playing field but that's fine we just got to work harder right i mean that's that's just my opinion for what that's worth we got to work harder what does that mean no that's that sounds like a platitude you know that sounds like sort of it does sound like a platitude you know you got to work harder yeah we'll fix that just means our elbow grease our technology has to be better our product has to be better you know what we're selling has to be better what are what are our intelligence that we collect as a company right like i mean look companies spend a great time i know this because we work for a lot of companies uh and uh we mean your security firm my
firm yeah it's an intel and security operation portman square group look at that i just promoted it so portman square group is uh is a business that it's been doing this for a long time i changed the name some time ago when i bought the company back from the previous investors and it we work with a lot of companies that have very good very capable in-house resources to gather uh information related to um you know uh risk and op and and and operational awareness on the ground and maybe they're gonna build a new facility somewhere um so they spend a lot of time trying to get that right and trying to understand but i will say this also when they've got a potential investment coming right or or the opportunity to get into a market or whatever the tendency again is always to make it happen right it's not a happy day when you present information that says this is a bad investment you shouldn't do this or this is shaky or you know here's the problems you're gonna you're gonna deal with um because there's a lot of people who are invested in making something happen and growing the business or doing something right and so you know occasionally you know the companies that do really well overseas are the ones that approach it very pragmatically and say yeah you know if this looks bad then we're going to pivot we're going to find something else that looks better and they don't ignore it but a lot of companies tend to ignore sometimes good advice um and that gets them into a situation where then they gotta at the end of the day reverse engineer and figure out how they got [ __ ] but yeah um the social credit score thing freaks me the [ __ ] out because i see vaccine passports and the these type of deals as being a step towards this idea um the idea that you have to keep something whether it's an app on your phone that you need at all times that that freaks me out and there was a discussion recently uh that was uh on in yahoo news i believe i saw it where they were talking about how your browsing history
may affect your credit that your credit is not just going to be what you know have you paid your bills how much money you make you know what is your what is your you know your history in terms of loans but look at this credit scores may soon be based on your web history is that a good thing first of all ethan rothberg no no that's not a good thing but let's uh let's let's read this because it's kind of [ __ ] crazy lenders could soon be using data from your browsing search and purchase history your digital footprint to create a more accurate credit score according to the international monetary fund researchers the working paper shows that combining your credit score and your digital footprint further improves loan default predictions this scares the [ __ ] out of me and how exactly this data be collected and used as part of your credit report survey says artificial intelligence and machine learning the imf isn't the only group to ponder such futuristic notions a 2018 study from the frankfurt school of finance and management also looked at lenders using personal online data in tandem with traditional data from credit viewers so what does your online behavior really say about you their findings show that digital footprint allows some unscorable customers to gain access to credit see there's the carrot oh you you can have access to credit while customers with a low to medium credit score can either gain or lose access to credit depending upon their digital footprint but i like how they said that you could either gain or lose probably won't lose don't worry about the losing part there's no attention pay no attention yeah depending on your digital footprint so people are going to give up their [ __ ] browsing history in hopes that they're gonna get more money now how many people are gonna be willing to do what if they show definitively that if you give up your browsing history you'll get x amount of points more credit period
people are just gonna [ __ ] do it well they've already done it right i mean yeah but this this this way they'll do it openly and i think this moves you yeah one more step closer to a social a social credit score system which i'm [ __ ] terrified of yeah well they've there's there's in in a variety of areas uh look fraud control take fraud control as a as a sort of a data aggregator um the amount of information that a company that's focused on uh assessing uh whether your transaction right you put it you walk into a place you're gonna buy a pair of sneakers right you put your card in the machine you know it takes whatever like you know four seconds whatever for it to come up and say approved in that four seconds there is a hundreds of of uh of points of information you know being reviewed instantaneously about whether this is a potential fraud transaction or not it's already so it's it's already happening and they're looking at the algorithms that are used are all based on um in a sense it's in its artificial intelligence to some degree on machine learning of transactional awareness and of of where this card was before over the past you know six months right and how many times it's been used and what type of purchases it's been made and you know uh there so you think about all that information already out there already being used and uh a it's you know it's it's a little bit scary from the sense of of hacking and the ability to access millions and millions of people's information because now it's all being held in in a variety of uh of silos but then you also think about it being used you know again go advancing it one or two steps and using it for this type of purpose right and i think people have gotten so blase about their information and and in part it's because well i love the fact that i don't have to use cash you know and so right i don't care or part of it is um you know i you know i've got
my details out there on so many different shopping sites and it doesn't matter right so they're all so used to it we've all been so conditioned to it that i don't know that a lot of people are going to be scared by i don't think they're going to be scared of this at all again like i said as long as it allows you to get access to more credit which generally speaking if they can just give you a little more credit and and have access to your browsing history you're going to do it a lot of people are going to do it most people are going to do it like mike you know your home you know you were you wanted to uh get credit looks like you can get this house if you let us look at your browser or you can get that house if you don't yeah yeah yeah people are gonna do it if they find out you know you're gonna get two hundred thousand 000 in a loan or a hundred thousand dollars in a loan depending upon whether or not you allow us to have access to your browsing history how many people are going to say yes they're probably going to try to clean up their [ __ ] computer they're going to be unsophisticated take all the porn down like they're going to go mike you look at eight hours of porn a day this is kind of crazy i don't don't knock a man's head down like a man's hobby but you know what i'm saying it's like there's so many people that are that are going to be willing to give up that data the same way one of the things that i heard argued about facebook which is really fascinating they were saying that facebook treats you like you're a customer but in fact you're the product and you are you are providing them with data that they then sell and there's a big difference between you being a customer and being a product because you're treated like you're a customer but you're actually a product right and we've all just sort of accepted that and we've given up this data so we've given up this commodity that we didn't even know was valuable at the time and now it's become literally one of the most valuable things in the world you have these companies like google and facebook that have enormous amounts of money entirely based on the fact that they
have access to your data well and also you've got a lot of companies out there that for whatever reason can't get uh investment can't get credit can't get you know and so you know are they going to say no i'm not going to give up what they already assume they're doing anyway for the most part most people understand that they've given up a lot of information you know in in the commercial world um you know i again i know that the the bogeyman is always like nsa and this is collecting information on you right that's not the that's not the point of this exercise that you know it's it's the commercial side of things because because it is monetized and there is a revenue stream that's where you're you're giving up all your information but i think you know most companies most individuals i agree with if they think that there's a a potential upside they don't care because they're already doing it or in their minds they're already doing it or somehow they can they can write off the the security risks or the concerns that might be there or the privacy rights that you know frankly most people have have assumed have long gone so uh you know again i think you know from my perspective i i've never because i spent so much time within the government i've never been one who's worried about you know big government collecting huge amounts of data on me right i mean for the most part they can't organize panic in a doom submarine so um and i think that it's the it's the googles and it's the amazons and it's the others who have been busy for for years and years just just figuring out how do we how do we make money off of you right well that's what's interesting right with the argument has always been that uh private companies are better at a lot of things because there's profit involved yeah versus the government and there's we're seeing this with like spacex right like elon musk because it's not funded by the government like nasa is they're able to do incredible things and they have kind of like free reign to figure out the right ways to do things and they have enormous resources because of all the money involved right right uh i think
yeah i having you know because i'm so shameless about this but having now uh almost got to the finish of filming the second season for that black files declassified one of the things that we do is we do look a lot at the the intersection of government and and the commercial sector in terms of development of whether it's technologies uh for weapons development or whatever it may be and um there is a enormously healthy uh robust partnership between the government and a variety of of sectors out there in part because i think you know there is this understanding that at some point you've got to take this idea and it's got to be germinated in the commercial side that's where it's really going to come to fruition right it's you got you know in certain parts of like darpa and some parts of the government you've got incredibly smart people but ultimately you've got to get it into the commercial side to get it developed it's like that hypersonic weapon that was built by raytheon right and and you know darpa came out with the announcement and darpa's heavily involved but you know it's a raytheon engineers and and you know and and they're not doing it you know because they're mostly worried about you know who's going to be at the top of the food chain they're doing it because there's a revenue stream that they understand is very very important for their next 10 or 20 years of growth and so they want those contracts and so they're going to do every [ __ ] thing possible to be successful at it um so i don't know where i was going with that which brings me back to ufos oh i knew we were going back to ufos when you see all of these announcements i mean i'm i'm sure you know more than i do and i'm not asking you to say things you're not supposed to say but when you see these announcements like when the pentagon talks openly about ufos when you see it in the new york times that 2017 article where they're talking to people like highly respected people like commander david fravor and all these people that have had these encounters with uh unexplainable
technology when you see this being discussed do you think that some of this is just obfuscating is some of this is just like covering up for the fact that we have some super advanced technology that we're not letting be public and there there you know you can say oh well we don't even know what's going on this could be ufos like i don't believe whenever i see like these public announcements about technology that we don't understand that is coming from alien worlds but that to me i always go why would they tell us that what is the what is the reason right for all of this transparency all of a sudden like in how much of this is [ __ ] how much of this is just covering up that there's some insane technology that they have a handle on and this brings me to this the what is that was it a cia document the ufo document do you know what i'm discussing jamie where they were talking about the technology and there was some sort of a patent on the same type of technology that is potentially being utilized by these unexplainable crafts where they're using some sort of uh magnetic based propulsion system what is behind the us navy's ufo fusion energy patent this is what it is so it's oh [ __ ] with their pockets sons of [ __ ] um so if you scroll down so there's some sort of a patent yeah yeah you know what that is so tell me plasma controlled fusion device they filed a patent for this plasma controlled fusion device in 2019 and it says either a giant breakthrough or mad science according to the patent application the miniature device could contain and sustain fusion reactions capable of generating power in the gigawatt one billion watts to terawatt one trillion watts range or more a large coal plant or a mid-sized nuclear power
reactor by comparison produces energy in the one to two gigawatt range which is insane so you're talking about something that can produce the amount of power that a [ __ ] coal plant or a mid-sized nuclear power reactor can make yeah now the the interesting thing about this is when we actually featured this in an episode of black files declassified second season coming in the new year um thank you very much uh and dr pisce um they did the government did investigate his ideas his patents um from what we've seen of the paperwork that's been released and declassified you could draw the conclusion although it's not it's not complete that there was nothing to it after they examined his theories his ideas about how to generate this level of energy in a small contained device and they came out and said we don't think there's anything there it appears as if at that point the funding for research into what he had proposed stopped but i would say i like that word but yeah but one thing that we we seem to be learning is that is that it's it's a rare day when funding is allocated to something um and then stopped right usually that money then is shifted or the program morphs or the idea or the theory or the testing moves into some other area so what we what we're looking at now is did they come up and say okay we don't think this works or did they essentially wrap that up because it was it became known and then morph it into a different essentially black file black budget or whatever you want to call it and continue looking into this type of energy production right but the if you if you if you follow the trail of available paperwork and the people that we've talked to you get to a point where they they say now there was there was nothing there and so we stopped researching we stopped funding that research
i my experience has always been that nobody then says okay you can have your money back right right and or or they're looking to like with some of our past stealth aircraft they just shut it down but they move the whole thing into something completely different right so that it's now classified and classified and hit right it's uh yeah look we can i just show you the language you go to that second tab that you opened up please jamie on that subject look at the language that they use at the top of this space-time modification weapon what the [ __ ] does that mean space-time modification this is see that if you scroll back to the top navy spent three years considerable sense of money testing the pace effect which yes we've proven it may have transferred the program to another agency that's the part you just got it yeah look at that anyway and they're saying that this is no bigger than the size of an suv that could potentially have the same amount of power as a nuclear reactor which is just [ __ ] insane because a lot of the sightings one of the things about some of the more interesting sightings over the past particularly over military facilities or by uh uh whether it's fravor or other uh military aviators is is again the lack of propulsion right yes well so we didn't see anything we got no heat signature we saw no evidence of engines there was nothing to indicate how this thing would be moving and so that becomes a big part of the question but to go back to your original question um it is one of the most fascinating parts about about this right now is why and why the pentagon decided to uh sort of set the table with opening up about atip as an example right and saying okay we're gonna we're gonna talk about this look they had the advanced uh what it was aerospace weapons systems application programs right which kind of preceded atip um and
the idea i think that the the military at some point recently they decided it's better for us to talk about this in a sort of a operationally logical fashion so i think they approached it from saying well look of course we have an office like atep right uh you know louis elizondo and a bunch of others have you know already been talking about it so it came out and i think the military thought probably the best way for us to explain it is just simply by saying well of course we're going to be looking at uh unidentified or or aerial phenomena that we can't explain that's a national security issue and it is it makes sense right so you have an office that would go out there and if you spot something you know particularly if it's near a sensitive facility then yeah of course you want to know what the [ __ ] it is right so you get a sighting and i you know is there is it a way for them to set the table so that it just kind of shuts everybody up and they go okay i get it thank you for talking to us about it right or is it a way for them to say here's a logical explanation now we don't have to talk about our you know the technologies that we've been developing or the aware that others have been developing um that uh yeah i don't i don't know but i think it makes sense i i'm impressed that the pentagon would take this route but i'm curious as to how far they'll go so what we're hoping to do is sit down with them and say okay why exactly because no one's really asking why are you talking about this now right and and if they have asked him i suspect the you know the answer will somebody be well just you know we're just explaining why atip existed now something like this like let's let's assume that this program is legitimate it's a big assumption let's just assume for the sake of this conversation how many people are involved how many people know about the capabilities of this particular weapon slash propulsion system that they're working
on right now yeah well they all they're all signed you know to um death warrants death wards keep you [ __ ] mouth shut so we'll never never know but uh you know typically any of these programs is pretty close hold you know whether it's coming out of the skunk works or whether it's wherever it may be uh you're not talking about a lot of people but it's an engineering exercise so you're talking about a range of backgrounds and experiences in people and it's you know it's it's i guess if we had two things um if the if if we were holding uh it's gonna sound strange but if we were holding aliens at area 51 as an example i firmly believe there's no way we could have kept that secret for any period of time right why do you say that well because they're just it's human nature it's the it's the um well that's bob lazar then yeah yeah yeah he didn't keep it secret yeah it's just but i think also um in in a shorter period of time i mean i'm talking going back you know decades and decades right so so ever since area 51 became you know ground zero for for some of the thoughts and and ideas about you know aliens but uh in in recent terms if you know you're talking about the past handful of years and you're developing new technologies uh new propulsion system whatever it may be do i think that you know the government can keep that secret over a relatively short period of time yes right so uh i don't know where i'm going with that other than i suspect that what's happened is that we oh sure here it goes it's a the document also shows that a team of at least 10 technicians and engineers were assigned to design and test an experimental demonstrator and that testing was being conducted as recently as september of 2019. so this is my question when you have these unexplained things like what commander david fravor sees off the coast of san diego what is the potential that that is
the united states government testing some of this insane technology that they're trying to keep under wraps and then when they release some sort of a statement like this what would be the purpose of even releasing the statement well i think there were so many questions in there and that it had gotten out there and had been in the press and have been enough stories about it that i think in part i don't say damage control but i think they were just trying to get ahead of it a little bit so they say we tried but it wasn't successful so we abandoned the program sorry it's over right but then this article highlights exactly what you said that they probably moved it to another agency which means it's probably continuing this cycle of development there is no way they stop um researching or uh working um in a sort of a feverish pace to develop uh this type of technology this ability to and because there's a potential for it because there's a potential for it and because it's so important right because and again it comes back to the idea of competition right we know the russians and the chinese are doing everything they can right to develop new propulsion systems new materials science issues related to hypersonics and you know can you get a manned hypersonic aircraft not you know probably not in our lifetime frankly because of the the speed we're talking about and the impact on the materials that we've got but there's no way that we're not just because they shelve one uh file one one research project doesn't mean they're not moving into something else or they're not they're not taking an aspect of it and saying okay this could work and so yes could what fravor have seen been um something that we were testing and developing you know part of me says well look if that's the case they wouldn't have been it would have been doing sorties you know in in you know close enough they would have found a more remote location unless they wanted it to be discovered yeah and and and there is some of that
that's out there in terms of what are we released you know to to the outside world meaning you know countries that are not aligned with our interests and so there's something to that that gets them worried against the chinese thinking what exactly do they have right right um so yeah i i just think that it's the the favorite thing we we we've talked about before we keep coming back and it is really you know one of the few sightings that you look at and you go i don't know this thing you know there's not an explanation for it yet there's no and there's not a you can't write it off right and i mean it was above 60 000 feet above sea level and it got down to 50 feet in less than a second yeah and he just and he's just such a cra and he wasn't the only one he's not the only one that had eyes on target right so it's such it's such a credible sighting that it does create and if that's the case then look you can't you know anybody who says absolutely you know there's not phenomena out there that we can't explain it's i don't understand how you hold that point of view right we don't know right not only that if it's an individual occurrence if it's one thing that occurs in one place how do you know whether or not this happened just because it's not repeating all over the country like you know the sighting of bald eagles or something yeah just because it's not something that you can go out and absolutely prove to be true like when something happens a unique occurrence it's very difficult to say whether a unique occurrence actually took place well we know that there's real evidence and there's video of this [ __ ] thing yeah and we know from exactly and we know from other uh you know uh materials from ossap and also from the successor operation that the uh atip uh office within the pentagon
um and they're current and again that's the point you know they talk about well atip you know it we we stopped that you know a few years back you know really do you think that they they've stopped you know investigating uh aerial phenomena that they can't explain right off the bat i mean that that's it's it's ridiculous to think that so there's an element somewhere under a different acronym that's doing the same thing and so what have they seen i you know there's and there's been multiple sightings and again one of the more interesting things about the sightings is that there are over a lot of a number of times over sensitive facilities sensitive installations and so that leads you to wonder okay are they you know is that because they're home based there whatever the technology is whatever platform we're testing whatever it may be or is that because it's you know from a different nation that's out there trying to figure out or what is it right right or if you want to get crazy is it from another plan is it from another planet right and so you know they uh although they got if they coming out here and they're looking they gotta be thinking oh [ __ ] this we'll just keep moving on okay there's except for entertainment value there's nothing to see here maybe they're worried that we're gonna do something really [ __ ] up i mean when you have countries that have so many nuclear weapons that we could kill everyone on the planet multiple times over and literally turn this whole thing into a glowing ball maybe if i was from another planet i'd be like let's just keep a close eye on these crazy [ __ ] yeah let's keep a close eye we have basically these creatures that are going from tribal warfare to nuclear technology to fusion reactors that are the size of an suv capable of producing gigawatts in short order yeah one of the one of my favorite little i don't know what you call a little tidbit of information uh is um
is you think about the wright brothers yeah and then you think about what 50 years later we're landing on the moon it's pretty crazy it's absolutely crazy if you think about that condensed period of time going from yeah i think we can get this thing made out of paper and twigs to fly and then we're landing on the [ __ ] moon and it goes even crazier than that yeah the technology involved in that is nothing compared to this little thing that you've got sitting in front of you that sits in your pocket so they went from a whole room full of gigantic super super computers in the 1960s to something that's way more powerful right that just sits in your pocket that now the new one has a terabyte of storage yeah yeah that that my my uh you know 10 year old you know boy mugsy you know picks up and it's like a part of his body right here there's there's no fear of technology right it's completely intuitive and they know how to change things no no i'll show you dad yeah and they're in the settings and oh my god yeah he he's he my kids all three of them scooters sluggo and mugsy they understand uh didn't take them very long to understand that you know from a technology point of view they're far advanced compared to me right yeah they're locked into it right it's like learning a language yeah you know like they say it's the best time when you're a kid you learn a language you can learn a second language very easily when you're old like us it's it's it's a grind by the way just phenomenal cigars it's very good right right and that's and that that other one's a partaga series d4 which is uh i just outstandingly did you have to go to cuba to get these i might have can i confirm or deny i can't knife either one um yeah so anyway the uh but they but this whole subject to me it's like i could buy it on surface level which i love to do and say oh my god the government's coming clear because they want us to know because they can't stop this and this is this is such a big issue but
one of the more confusing things about it and one thing that kind of confirmed my suspicions about this time that we're living in where there's this overwhelming amount of information that something just just gets lost in the news cycle and then a new thing comes out and just you just forget because it's so there's so much right we can't keep up that they release this information and no one seems to give a [ __ ] i mean obviously it came out in the middle of the pandemic so everybody's kind of [ __ ] anyway but it's it seems to me that they would not have any real motivation to tell us the truth about this stuff so when they're talking about this stuff i'm always wondering if they're preparing us for the implementation of some technology that they've been developing that they can now say they don't have control over and they could use it to their advantage the fact that we might be willing to believe that it is from another world or another dimension because they've already said well we there there are real things that are out there that we can't explain yeah um i mean i think one part of this is is just the the the pace of development we talked about a little bit just now but the pace of development within um weapons technology and artificial intelligence right that's that's a whole separate uh you know issue in terms of you know like like you said before right if aliens fly by and they look and they go well these guys are pretty [ __ ] up and they're capable of blowing this whole planet up here short order if you layer on top of that are all traditional nuclear systems i don't know where i'm going with this but and then you put on to that sort of the the uh the ability to remove the human from the equation right so that your defense systems um aren't for whatever reason aren't attached to a human right that you know what is that and the soviets did it right with that old dead hand project that they had um you know and and the idea now the u.s says now we're not we're never going to go there that route you know we're never going to you know make our uh
our security systems based on no human involvement but um again not sure where i was going with that other than i i find it fascinating that that we seem to think that's a remote possibility and and the idea that technology might outpace our ability to control it you know is is interesting not saying that robots are going to take over or not but artificial intelligence could one day become sentient i mean that's the real concern that people like elon have yeah yeah yeah you know that one day we're going to flip the switch on something that we can't turn back yeah there's a number of people that feel that way there's another people on the other side of it that say no that's it's never going to happen i don't buy those people at all yeah i mean i because again you don't know what you don't know right so you don't know where this is going no one saw this coming no one saw this phone but the the thing that freaks me the most out is that no one saw the internet coming you know even in science fiction like if you go back to like the old star trek episodes and captain kirk they they didn't even they thought they were gonna have a walkie-talkie perk out you know it's like there's so many things you can't predict in terms of the people that's flip communicator i think yeah yeah no no screen no face time yeah yeah there's there's there's so many things you can't predict when it comes to uh innovation and technology and the expansion of these ideas that branch off into these sort of unpredictable ways when the new piece of technology whether it's this space-time manipulation thing that they're talking about or you know anything that gets designed that no one saw coming and is a complete game changer like the internet has been if that happens with artificial intelligence and they can one day develop something some something ex-machina-like or even weirder something that's like literally controlling society like artificial intelligence well and look again if you think about the intersection of how these things develop and by the way i i think they uh
i don't know who created the the uh dick tracy cartoon but they remember they had the old wristwatch that yeah now we have to see people on there no people thought that was crazy yeah remember i thought i was going to get a toddler right i was supposed to get my [ __ ] personal check where's the jump bugs pissing me off but yeah they still haven't figured that out but if you think about the the you put artificial intelligence in there and then going to something like this hypersonic weapons development where you've reduced the reaction time almost down to zero right and that's one of those so you've kind of got these things you've got people say well never take the human out of it and then you've got this worry about well but we're reducing the reaction time beyond the point where humans can react so maybe we've got to have this artificial intelligence capability to drive most of the reaction time so you can see how this whole thing could compress into a real you know [ __ ] show especially if you're dealing with companies that have been compromised by the chinese communist party which we know that was the deal with huawei which we've talked about many times before right about they had installed these sort of third-party systems where you know third-party access was available to like routers and a lot of their technology and it's one of the reasons why they stopped allowing huawei to sell their phones in the united states right right i mean it's again you just you you're putting a back door access point into whatever it is that you're selling so if that happens with artificial intelligence that actually is controlling our defense systems and then there's hypersonic weapons that these artificial intelligence programs are supposed to be able to detect but they've been compromised because we bought chinese technology right i mean you've dropped you've dropped the reaction time down almost nothing uh it's unpredictable so now you're thinking okay well you know a human can't look at the the data on this incoming object and process it fast enough so we got to get the machines in there and then and then you know it's a it's a short step i again i don't want
to you know if you want to who knows where it's going but i'm just thinking it's it's silly to say that it's it's not a problem right so that's what i'm saying who knows where it's going but it is silly to say that if you just think about where this all goes as it expands as this technology expands it doesn't necessarily go to a place where it's controllable and if we decide that the only way to have this stuff really truly be competitive with the rest of the world is to give it a certain amount of autonomy and allow it to make decisions well who's then we're we're really [ __ ] [Laughter] and this scares me maybe even more is that we integrate with technology and i think kind of think that's where we're going and when elon starts talking about he is recently saying that he's going to stream music in your head we've seen that jamie who's saying that through neuralink you're going to be able to stream music into your head so like you'll be able to be playing music just like you'd have air pods on but no one will know and you're sitting there at work just be bopping along and i i don't i don't to me that doesn't seem like a strange thought right again because of the pace of everything's exponential at the pace of of tech development and so i yeah again it's it's what do i know i'm not a i'm not a rocket scientist um do you pay attention to security when it comes to like your phones and and um like pegasus and stuff like that yeah um do you scan your phones uh we do um we i try to and i'll tell you why uh it's not because you know i'm engaged in national security issues anymore it's you know uh in part my concern over security is because i got kids right right so i'm you know i'm just worried about it as a parent and so part of the driver for why i'm i'm always kind of focused on on data protection or protecting yourself or your identity whatever it may be it's just just because it's apparent right i mean so it to me that makes sense from a
business perspective you would be surprised at how how how lax a lot of systems are whether it's in the commercial side or or government i mean [ __ ] look it wasn't that long ago right that we had uh what was it four years ago um that we had the uh release of uh uh on the wikileaks of vault seven right all the hacking tools that got you know pulled out from uh the cia and released some of them released on on wikileaks um though which is a whole different story yeah we're going to talk about we're going to talk about that um about how there may have been conversations uh with intelligence agencies and trump allegedly this is a problem when i see that released like that you know those kind of car i'm like who's who's benefiting from releasing this that they were thinking about whacking julian assange and you do you buy into that what do you think yeah i think that i think it i think it's a uh i think elements of the of the story this we're talking about a story that was on uh i think yahoo news actually broke it uh but it's only been in the past day and a half or two days or whatever that uh the idea was that during the previous administration of the trump administration uh particularly because uh uh mike pompeo who at this particular point in time was the cia director uh was so incensed over um wikileaks releasing the some of the vault 7 information about cia hacking so and a lot of other people in the agency were also likewise very upset about it but according to the story anyway there was talk within the trump administration over you know can we uh can we kidnap assange who i mean at the time he'd been in the ecuadorian embassy uh you know taking refuge there in london for whatever five years and he was only on like the second floor right you'd go to that balcony you're like jesus christ he's right there he is yeah really a really tall guy yeah
and you know we don't hire a lot of them because they stand out at the agency but um so he's there and the idea was that there was conversations um discussions and some you know planning scenarios developed about how can we you know how can we uh kidnap assange and then and then according to the story there's also some talk about well could we assassinate him i mean where could this thing go um if anybody had walked in if i had been in a position of responsibility uh at the agency and someone had walked in and said yeah we need to draw up some scenarios for the white house over how we can either kidnap or and or assassinate assange honestly get the [ __ ] out of my office right go get back to work dude i would like to think that you would say that i would have said that you can't it's an insane it's an insane story i realize that you know uh it doesn't condone uh the uh because you know where i stand on people like manning or or snowden i think it's a treasonous act i think i get why people are very supportive of them for releasing you know they're for stealing the information and releasing it i get that but i'm not on that side but at the same time that doesn't give you justification to say you're going to go into uh a sovereign nations embassy in another sovereign nation in the uk and render uh a uh an australian citizen i mean it's insane can i challenge you on the snowden thing yeah because if snowden released something that showed that the nsa was involved in something that's unconstitutional and completely illegal doesn't he have a certain amount of responsibility as a patriot to release that information to the general public and allow them to see that the government which is really just a bunch of people is doing something that is completely illegal and monitoring people in a way that they had no idea was taking place meaning that they were all of their phone calls all their emails everything was being stored and it could
potentially be leveraged against them if they were inconvenient yeah no i get i'm not going to say no i get that i understand it i can't from my position right um get myself there to say that it was a patriotic act what i think would have been the right approach was for him to go and i know that people say i couldn't it couldn't have happened i think releasing that information within the the uh intel committees figuring out a way to get that information through a whistleblower chain pushing it and and and doing everything possible to do that and getting it out is that important yes i get that but i can't just you know again we have to base our on our experiences and you know based on what i've done with it i can't get myself to the point of saying what he did was a patriotic act but i understand i understand the point of view entirely and and in a theoretical sense yes i get it i just can't get myself there i understand what you're saying because of your position and that you work for the agency for so long but you're not dealing with the cia at this point right you're dealing with the nsa right it's a different organization but they they were doing something that is completely illegal like the united states oh you get no argument from me on that right so what do you how does one stop that from happening or make the public aware because i don't know how much has changed because they you know wikileaks and uh assange he's he's still he's still like being held for something that i i can't even understand why he's being held yeah right now he's in a london prison right but it doesn't make sense like the the charge the original charge was like surprise sex or some kind of sexual thing where he was that was dropped i think that was that was dropped based on like a 2000 2012 warrant um in in the uk um and i think that um and this is again
this is this is part of the problem i mean this this story that came out about you know about uh pompeo pushing for options in terms of could we could we uh kidnap him could we you know whatever um look the department of justice u.s department of justice has been working on you know trying to figure out how do we get him you know extradited back to the state here's the question why like it hasn't the damage been done hasn't he really is it to punish anybody else that might consider being a whistleblower in the future and to send a message like why would they want to if the guy has already essentially released all those documents why would they be so concerned with what he has to say now well yeah there were a couple of aspects of of where the us government was going after him one was that he was actually working uh to help remember uh uh manning now chelsea manning right um to uh facilitate so it wasn't just a receptacle it wasn't just receiving documents but was helping manning to try to facilitate the theft of of uh classified materials so is that espionage yeah yeah and then they tried and then they also layered on some espionage act um uh for for actually publishing classified information that's i think probably a weaker position than actually trying to work with someone to facilitate the theft of intellectual property that's not that's not a journalistic role right there but publishing you could argue okay that's a that's a journalistic role so which which person would have done the more egregious crime in terms of the position of the the intelligence agencies would it be manning or it would it be assange because assange is still locked up manning is now free yeah i know it's it and it's this is that's that's been this brown this this whole discussion whether you're talking about manning assange snowden the whole throw it all into this this bucket and it's um it's very emotive um i'm conflicted in the sense that on the snowden issue i agree again yeah that what nsa was doing it and they were needed to be brought to
light yeah it needed to be brought to light but i i just think it should have been brought in a different fashion but there's no repercussions theft of documents um what assange did the and the the way that the agency was was viewing assange in a sense was that he was not facilitating but but being like a an arm of or being used by uh to some degree as an example russian intel services um to do harm to the u.s um you could argue the the um so i but the story itself is insane and again i go back to the same thing it makes no sense how logical reasonable people could sit around you know i get it that they were pissed off about you know in the aftermath of the vault seven information disclosures and and and the embarrassment that that caused and and just the trouble that it caused and the release of that in sensitive information but that doesn't then mean you should sit and have operational meetings about kidnapping him you got you know right across the the water the department of justice is busy trying to do their thing and if they can do their thing legally great right if they can't then okay then they couldn't do you think they're punishing him do you think like but by by continuing to imprison him and by not releasing him and by not dropping this case and even this if this discussion was true about killing him right like is is it to send a message to other people yeah i think that was the idea was um they they at some point again you go part of this i think needs to be explored further hopefully other outlets will pick up the the yahoo news story i think it deserves more investigation but you know part of it is at a certain point um you know moving from the obama administration to uh the trump because you have to remember all the very sort of parts here you know you have the democratic email releases right in 2016.
um and that was viewed as a russian operation you know and uh wikileaks was was rightly so do you think that was in fact coordinated yeah i think so i mean you know we go back to you know yuri's comments about uh you know active measures and sure do you think that this was in coordination with trump do you think that trump had some sort of uh direct or is was it more advantageous for the russians to have trump in in the position as president like why do you think they would work with wikileaks to release the clinton emails because it caused us trouble it was chaos it cost chaos caused further distrust in the in the system caused a further splintering of our population so it's very effective if you think about absolutely how much we've been divided since 2016. yeah and it's all but again we go you know again when you when you showed that great clip of yuri talking about this and you realizing it was whatever 40 years ago um it's it's they're still doing it and they're still finding it to be successful and they're finding the technology that exists out there these phones that we just talked about and the social media outlets they're finding all of that to help i mean that's a great thing in the old days if you wanted to do a covert action campaign you gotta hire some journalists right you had to develop a network of newspaper journalists right find people that could could plant articles that you would you know skew it a certain way to influence the population in that country you know so that they would say oh yeah you know what the dictator does suck you know and then and but you had to cobble together you know it was it was a heavy lift right now it's [ __ ] so much easier right because you got all these social media outlets you can do it you know sitting in in moscow and you can influence millions of people and and that was unheard of even you know 25 years ago and i find them sometimes man i'm like i'll sometimes find a story and then i'll see a really aggressive or uh odd take and then i'll go to that person's twitter page and i'll see what is this and you look at it like i don't think this is a real person you go and they're just reposting all
these stories about either the republicans or the democrats with occasional commentary attached to that and very aggressive viewpoints but the human being behind it just seems non-existent and you see the amount of followers they have it's usually very minimal and there's usually some sort of a generic photo that identifies them in their twitter profile and you're like wow knowing what i know about the internet research agency and knowing that there's probably multiple different similar organizations in a lot of these uh other countries that oppose us like how many of these [ __ ] things are out there because they know that there's hundreds of thousands of fake accounts that are being utilized by foreign governments it's nothing more than a marketing campaign i want the population to drink more pepsi right i'm going to figure out how to make that happen what drives that that sector what drives the demographics that i'm interested in it's not different than trying to figure out you know how to increase your viewership of a show or or whatever it may be and when you put the state-sponsored resources behind it it's an immensely powerful thing and and again that and the technology has made it so much easier so the idea that we're being manipulated i mean and it's it again it happens in a variety of different ways people are going to say well i don't care about the russians i care about you know amazon trying to manipulate me or whatever yeah and they're doing it too right how many times you search for something i searched for something on my phone and then i spent two days getting you know unsolicited uh pop-ups saying oh by the way you know there's you know we got another whatever mgb for sale over here right uh i took delivery finally of that yeah back in 1965 mgb was that does that have a wooden frame uh no no some of them did right they're older all the old ones yeah but this one this one's 65 uh my uncle used to have one frame really yeah yeah oh my god it was yeah that that that's tough that'd be a tough ride um but but so these pop-up
ads show up and it's just like there there you go yeah you know and and so i know what you're looking at they know what you're looking for but the idea that that uh that the the russians would look at at our society today and go yeah uh it's so easy to divide and conquer and they're just that's what they're doing whether they're playing black against white they're playing you know rich against poor they're playing it doesn't matter what the subject is they know it doesn't take much um to increase that chaos and and ultimately to some degree that's all they want to do and we got lost in the idea that it was because they wanted trump the winner they wanted you know clinton to win or they wanted whatever that's not their point their point is to create chaos yeah and to create dissent and to make sure that we are even further divided right and bring down the system eventually i know that sounds old-school and very cold-war-ish but it's still there well if you look at the result it seems like they're being very effective do you ever have any sort of suspicions at all that potentially covet 19 could have been purposely released because you have to take it into consideration right you do you have to it's like everything else it's like it's like planning for the withdrawal from afghanistan you got to figure out what's the worst case scenario and you got it you got to create yeah so i'm not saying that it happened but it's one of those things where you got to go okay this is something that you can't completely ignore the possibility of it a government like one of the things we covered on my sci-fi show way back in the day was this uh idea of a bio weapon about using some sort of a manipulated virus that gets out into the general population and wrecks havoc obviously this one was worldwide but it's not like it was targeted in one specific area but in getting something that does go worldwide look at the amount the the authoritarian response just in australia australia has turned into a [ __ ] prison colony and then here's one where the second
amendment advocates step up and say hey this is why we have the second amendment like you could always say that the second amendment is supposed to apply to protection of yourself and a well-armed militia it has nothing to do with you know uh some guy being able to have 150 [ __ ] ars in his in his bedroom and this is crazy and it's uh it's overreach or it's uh it's we it's it's being abused rather but australia has no guns the the general population there's a few people that have like rifles for hunting but it's there's nothing like we have here in america and they are being overrun cops are be they're pulling people over for simply being outside their homes and they're throwing them to the ground like thugs you're seeing these protests where they're literally pepper spraying old ladies in the face it's crazy how much they've been divided and what scares the [ __ ] out of me is i've got to think that any foreign entity any any foreign government that sees what's possible in australia would like to see that happen in america well yeah nothing's more divisive no no divides the population more than seeing this place that was like always a great place to visit people are so friendly and now it's a [ __ ] police state like how does this deteriorate i spent part of my childhood there i didn't come to the states until my last year of high school right so uh and i was in in australia and uh what's it like for you watching i was i was i'm stunned by their their reaction first of all to um to imposing the the the regulations the requirements of the the protocols that they've got in place and i'm also kind of stunned at the the australian population's willingness to you know allow it to happen in a sense they're rejecting it now yeah yeah it took a while though it took a while because this has been going on for a while melbourne is the most locked down city in the world which is crazy and the amount of deaths they've had is so
minimal yeah it's so small it's like florida on a weekend for the entire pandemic i'm not kidding no it's it's true it really is like that yeah so i'm i'm shocked by by the way that it's taking place and i never would have picked australia as a place where they would have would have tried uh tried enacting this but it's kind of a proving ground though isn't it it seems that way although you know you could argue a former penal colony maybe it's you know the revolutionary type so but i think that uh i you know look i i have no doubt in my mind that this thing you know originated in in the lab no doubt there's no doubt i mean we're talking about that as the likely scenario uh back in january of 2020 right and and and then people started you know oh it's conspiracy and they said it because trump was trump right and that's which is insane but so much of what's happened over the past few years has been insane because it's just automatically if it emanated from the previous administration it was [ __ ] whether it was or not right some of it was [ __ ] but whether it was or not it didn't matter so facts didn't matter but i have no doubt that do i think there was deliberate no do i think the wuhan lab had dealings with the chinese pla with the military absolutely were they you know conducting some research on the military's behalf i have no doubt about that either but do i think that it was uh designed and released deliberately to no i i i probably draw the line at that point but look we don't know what we don't know because the chinese are being so [ __ ] you know uh non-transparent about this and that's the problem we just had that whatever that last uh intel assessment came out what in uh late august um of this year and you know i've never i've never seen anything as an assessment that tells you less right but at least they're honest because they come out and go well you know we it's still inconclusive as to whether it originated in the lab because that chinese won't cooperate right and our intel is so poor there you know we just don't have the sources and you're talking about a very heavy lift in terms
of getting intel on something this specific this narrow out of an environment like china that yeah unless we have some way to either steal that information or somehow magically get their cooperation and they open up the books and tell us what the [ __ ] happened we're not going to know but isn't it so interesting how the division in this country is so clear between left and right that left is defending fauci and not they're essentially ignoring all this information that he and the nih funded that eco health alliance which in turn funded what rand paul and many others believe you could describe as gain of function research yeah they they even refer to it in the same way in emails that were released and fauci lied in front of congress when he was being questioned about this it's pretty clear right yeah i think well again it's it's all based on where you you know where you sit and try but if you try to assess this thing objectively if you if you can if it's possible to take the politics out of it and you simply just look at the what facts have been established then um it you can certainly make the argument that fauci lied uh about the extent to which he was aware of what was going on and then the extent to which uh there was an effort to try to cover for the wuhan lab and create a different narrative over this look it's [ __ ] at this stage of the game that people still look at this and go right you know i i don't know it could have been still natural causes and maybe didn't come out of the lab and and that's that defies logic if you just simply look at pattern of behavior and evidence that exists currently right much less what hopefully will come out and then new evidence three people that worked at the lab that turned up to be sick with illnesses that resemble right like a
100 percent covet 19 infection yeah i i i just think it's it's um you know it's like it's like everything else right going back full circle to what we started talking about which was the the uh the afghanistan withdrawal if you were to read the transcripts from the first part of the hearings with the armed services committee and the chairman reed uh democrat senator he has the right to make the opening statement then he asked the first questions and he frames the whole thing from the very beginning in a partisan way simply by trying to essentially say any [ __ ] that happened here is not biden's fault it's because of the previous administration agreeing to this doha agreement and that that's how he frames it he doesn't start this hearing this investigative hearing by saying we've brought these you know experts who have spent you know each four decades in the military were intimately involved in what was going on in afghanistan we brought them here to hear from them he starts it out by framing the way that he would like this to go this this is how it [ __ ] works there in washington right because we allow these people to stay in office forever right and we don't nobody wants to make a brave decision because they're all worried about getting elected again and so he starts that out then he asks questions you know when he has the opportunity to start out by asking questions and it's all about the doha agreement and don't you think that this was the problem and this was it's just [ __ ] everything that goes on in washington is either about not creating transparency or finding someone else to blame and that's you know again for what it's worth i think it's in part because of [ __ ] term limits or the lack of that's just me but that seems to be a real problem for sure yeah but that but the china thing i i think is uh in my mind it's there's there's no doubt it's it's the lab um but i also have no doubt we're probably not going to get clarification of that because there
there's no upside for the chinese to cooperate they don't they just don't it's like everything else they do they don't feel like they need to get like a definitive statement or a definitive like timeline of exactly what happened and how it happened and this is the cause unless you get you know your hands on on one of the uh one of the researchers that was inside the lab and is somehow willing to provide you with that intel i mean that's an enormous lift right it's like trying to get intel on the iranian nuclear program or anything else i mean there's there's certain there's there's certain targets that have always been difficult and in part it's because you have a small pool of people who have access to information that you need to know or you want to know and then you have very limited ability to get to those people so again it's and and you know they they scrubbed you know whatever information may be available from open source you know they that's that's not available um and so i just i have a feeling that we're never going to get to the bottom of it necessarily again unless we get really lucky with a particular intel source but there's no upside for the chinese to say ah you know what now let's be open and transparent why would they it seems like the pandemic was particularly effective at dividing americans and obviously what's happening in australia and france and quite a few other places where there are these massive protests but you don't see the same in russia and you don't see the same in china like what what about those countries i mean it seems like what whatever strategy they have if there there really is some sort of a uh government-funded strategy to try to increase the division amongst the left and the right and just people in general in america and distrust in the system this pandemic has turbo charged it for for america but maybe not so much for our enemies well yeah in part um that plays to our open society right um our access to information right and and you know you look at a place like china
where access to information is is yes um and you look at a place like russia where you know you know people make jokes all the time about the russian population's ability to suffer and it's true right they can you know it it's it's it's pretty impressive but uh i think with with the u.s i i just think that they look at it and um yes it's just another i guess to carry on from the point before about the active measures and the idea of driving wedges in you know if i was sitting in the russia desk you know for active measures at the fsb and i was sitting there and i thought to myself now what can we do now what topic should we pursue now what area can we pull on to further create this dissension and this is lack of unity and ah the pandemic right so it's just another topic just like racism right or uh you know fraudulent election or whatever it might be it's just another target you can put on the table and go now how do we do this oh okay look you know what we need to do is look at this war between you know uh anti-vaxxers and pro-vaxxers right let's let's let's do something there you know that's that's that's exciting some misinformation there to drive that wedge in further so for them it's just another opportunity and it's naive to think that they wouldn't take advantage of it so i but you know and it is it's striking how we've politicized you know the the idea of of the vaccine right um i don't know i look i i got vaccinated but i don't give a [ __ ] everybody do what you're going to do right i can't i can't get you know i can't get bent around the axle over you know oh my god you're not going to get who the [ __ ] it's your decision it's your choice i have no idea what anybody's thinking about that do you just do it fine right i mean to me that part of it and yet you know people are out there yielding their self-righteous swords of justice you know um
you know talking about you know you got to get vaccinated and and and and the anxiety over the whole thing that's one of the real problems with social media right is that this self-righteous virtue signaling uh sort of behavior is encouraged it's encouraged because people pile on you get reinforcement you know like um people reinforce your your decision to post something aggressive they get they're with you on it and they're rewarded for this with likes and clicks and retweets about that i got a thousand new followers exactly that's fantastic and you you see that sometimes you see like some of my favorite people on twitter are like the the people who claim like uh i used to be a republican but now i just see and they become some of the most woke people right and you know that they're just every day they're posting some [ __ ] right and it's just simply so they can get that feedback dopamine that dopamine hit right yeah i mean this the opposite is true too people who used to be on the left and they got red pilled and now they're all in on this and yeah yeah but the other thing is like you can't ignore all these issues either so it's like where do you where do you go for sanity because like when someone says the election's a fraud and you go oh jesus do i pay attention to this and then you see all these things like maricopa county just found 17 000 duplicate uh ballots like what does that mean yeah is that an accident or is that election fraud if that's election fraud there's evidence of election front 17 000 is a lot like 17 000 is often times enough to win a district or a county right right so the only but the only way it works is if then you can say okay and you've got an impartial media that is out there saying well that's an interesting story so i'll pursue that exactly you don't have that anymore you have completely biased media either for the left or for the right and so much so that they're ignoring stories and even censoring them stories that turn out to be accurate like the lab leak hypothesis right right for the longest time if you tried to put that on facebook they would ban it and they would ban you yeah now it's widely
accepted that that's the primary theory but nobody goes back and and it says lets those people back on and say sorry we [ __ ] you right or or you don't have any sort of intrepid investigative journalists going okay well let's really dig into this now let's take a look because you know maybe i spent you know six months you know [ __ ] on the story right i'm certainly not going to do a reversal so i i think without a uh and that people talk about that all the time the objective media and they talk about how it used to be objective well i it never really was but it was more it was more or they just they made the effort to appear objective right right even though they may not have been they suppressed their own personal and that at some point went away and now now like everything else we're conditioned and we just and we don't think it odd that you can open an entire new york times article with nothing but anonymous sources right yes and you don't have to justify what it is that you're saying that's crazy yeah it's crazy i i but i don't think you you know you can't walk that dog back but again going back to this idea of influencing the public you know whether you're trying to get them to buy cigarettes or whether you're the russians and you're trying to create more dissension um you know the only defense really comes down to the individual and the in the each person taking a little bit of [ __ ] responsibility and saying i'm gonna i'm gonna curate my information a little bit better i'm gonna pay a little bit more attention to what the [ __ ] i'm reading or hearing i'm gonna push back and question regardless of whether it goes against you know my point of view or not right i mean i've got i got some really dear friends who are completely on the opposite side on on certain issues yeah but i love getting together with them yeah yeah and and you know we'll have you know great uh you know we'll have great uh conversations you know and and and sometimes we'll is it argumentative no but at the end of the day then we finish up we have drinks we have dinner we we hang out we talk to you know about kids that's very rare yeah it's very rare today because people decided that the other side is the enemy and this is this wedge that you've brought up it's been
so effectively utilized whether it's by design which obviously we think it is a little bit but also just by through human nature whenever you're in a time of great stress like now yeah people they find comfort in groups and they also like to gang up on people that don't agree with their ideology and my concern is what you're saying about curating your own information i've been telling people to try to do that as much as possible i try to do that as much as possible but i don't think the majority of people are on board with that i think the majority people they will go to msnbc they will get the news that aligns with their ideology they'll go to fox they'll get the news that aligns with their ideology and then they'll point fingers at the other side of the fence and goes these [ __ ] are ruining america well it's because they see it again i you know i guess i was i was really disappointed i keep going back to the same armed services committee hearing because i was really disappointed i was expecting something more right i don't know why but it was just it was so partisan right so the so the left was was busy trying to figure out how to blame the previous administration and the right was simply you know banging on um you know the republican senators were simply banging on about we left people behind and and not nobody was taking the opportunity of having you know these these senior commanders in front of them you know to ask impartial objective questions and actually try to get they were all trying to make their own [ __ ] point which is always going to happen which again i don't know why i was surprised but it it's it's inevitable and every issue you know including the pandemic is framed in that in that that way and how do you how do you walk this back right i mean i've got i know people that have become completely alienated from you know others friends of theirs because of of their opposing views on on the pandemic and you know they all want the same thing they want to be safe and healthy and they want their kids to be safe and
healthy great you know you choose to do this you choose but people are so goddamn tribal they're always been they've always been so tribal it's a part of our dna yeah that they've they've it's so difficult for people to abandon those ideas and to reach across the aisle with earnestness and try to be kind to the other side and have a like a balanced civilized conversation it's not encouraged anymore what's encouraged is calling people out tax the rich yeah that kind of [ __ ] yeah yeah like what's encourages people with radical ideas that uh attack the other side that attack the opposing ideology and then a bunch of people get on board with it and start retweeting it and then the other side gets even more furious and people dig their heels in the sand well once you get this involved right once you go public right and you and you tweet something right right then that's when you know everything goes sideways and and you've got nothing but a goat rope because that's when you get that piling on effect right people and then people can oh my god look i got my own community here and and i just got 50 more likes for my my [ __ ] post and i don't know what the [ __ ] i'm talking about but i'm gonna lambast whoever this person is and that person may not even be a person and that's it so we all come comes that's part of the problem yeah and and so anyway it's it's for what it's worth read multiple sources of information and investigate what the [ __ ] you're reading mike where does this all go if you if you had to like i don't want a rosy rose-colored glasses uh view of the world you're not gonna get it from me i know but i mean where does this go if you see how bad things have been divided since 2016 what and what happens by 2026 i mean where where do you see us yeah i i i don't think um unless the internet shuts down and we all get back to some sort of other type of of uh community based communication um i i don't think it's going to become less of it's not going to become less divisive so that's sort of the starting point um we've we've hardened our positions
because of of a variety of reasons right so you know i know people who are on the on the the left who are genuinely believe that um anybody who doesn't think like them is stupid right and they need to be educated and they need to be helped or brought along and i know people on the right who think the same way about about the left right and you know you're not going to fix that right you're not going to it's not going to be something that comes along unless you know aliens manifest themselves and then we've all got a common enemy uh you're not you're not going to fix this divide that exists so what does that mean maybe it means we develop some other political uh opportunities right so we get a third party that's legitimate right that actually can play a role in the political process can you envision anybody allowing that to happen no because the powers that be on the left and the right are so entrenched right yeah and that's and that's where i know i bang on about this every now and then when we're talking but that's why i keep going on about [ __ ] term limits i looked at that i watched some of that and i watched some hearings the other day from on on a different subject and i look at these people and i and i and i realized that these guys have been up on there doing these political jobs as senators or congress people and they've been there for 35 or 40 years and you think you know what the [ __ ] are we doing right and they're not that impressive as people anyway right and they and they've got a certain character flow anyway because they went into politics that's my opinion but as well yeah so you know how do we and so you're right you know that that that was a theoretical concept of throwing out a third fourth party uh but i think that would that would be very helpful in um in not healing but in mitigating some of the problems from the device i think that the powers that be
will do everything they can to keep that from happening especially a third party that doesn't have all the trappings that the the first two parties do like with the the the deeply entwined roots of the democratic and the republican parties like the democrats are they're not giving up what they have and anybody that comes along that's reasonable that's the third part you know there was uh brett weinstein had uh an idea for he called it unity 2020 and he was going to reach across the aisle and say like take a qualified candidate from the left and a qualified candidate for the right and bring them together as a third alternative but popular figures like dan crenshaw and tulsi gabbard that was those are the two most likely candidates they were talking about twitter removed their profile they banned them i mean it makes no [ __ ] sense they said they were using bots there was no evidence they were using bots right they reviewed it and they they confirmed their initial suspicions they said and wouldn't reinstate the the thing but their their position was they were so worried that trump was going to win and that all resources that could perhaps take votes away from the democrats and joe biden needed to be stopped and so this idea could potentially take people that would have voted for biden because they were opposed to trump and now instead they're going to vote for tulsi gabbard and dan crenshaw this is going to [ __ ] things up for the democrats right which i mean they you know they they always make that argument you know whether it's ralph nader or you know uh ross perrault whoever actually did it did do that yeah that's why the argument is kind of interesting yeah right and and but it's it's also fascinating because then you dip into that whole concept of the big tech and their impact on on the same thing that we're talking about with yuri right right i mean it's it's not as if twitter is not involved in active measures right in their own way well the 100 biden story right yeah which is crazy yeah literally leading up to the election there's
some real interesting evidence of potential corruption if you if he's telling the truth in these emails he's saying that his father got 50 of all the stuff he got i have to kick 50 up to the big guy yeah this is what he's saying which is what is that is corruption yeah right and then it's core and where do i think that is i think that that that's hunter biden just blowing smoke trying to get more money for himself and so he's just he's doing what a lot of people do in dc do i think well exactly right and so there's no real evidence that he did get that money right it could be just [ __ ] right well what i mean is do i think joe biden said it go yes i'll case is okay son i'll take 50 percent no i think hunter biden's just you know it's it's got some character flaws and i think he's out there just wait a minute you think hunter biden has character flaws although he's a hell of an artist have you seen it [ __ ] artwork's going for big money fantastic 75 000 or 80 000. if he sells it the prices uh that they talk about at this exhibition that he's going to be doing if i was a dude who did a lot of coke and i had a bunch of money i might be interested in abiding in my house yeah that's honor biden that [ __ ] guy well apparently they've hung some of it in the white house yeah apparently well this this is a story that came out was that some of the stuff that he's done uh is going to be marketed now as having hung in the white house which that's a little sketchy from an ethics response what does that look like can we see a hundred painting yes i would like to see some of his work abstract some of this i don't know anything about it some of the 75 000 i'm not a fan of modern art to begin with i think a lot of it is [ __ ] yeah some of it's really interesting don't get me wrong but there's a lot of it like we were talking about this couple that's getting divorced in manhattan real estate developers worth hundreds of millions of dollars and he has a 600 million dollar art collection so we put up this one painting that's worth somewhere between 40 and 60 million and it looks like dog [ __ ] [ __ ] it looks like something you
and i could easily do oh god it's just splatters i was in uh nonsense i'm old enough that i was in when they opened the sydney opera house because i was living in australia i remember you know we took a a trip over to sydney to uh see the opera house and we were walking through and i was just a little kid and we walked through and there's a big jackson pollock there and i looked at the jackson pollock and i looked at my dad and the tour guide was standing there and i said i could do that [ __ ] i remember my dad still told that story until he died is that a painting oh mixed media painting so it's photograph and then paint and then that's not terrible that's not terrible let me see some of his other [ __ ] is that that right let me tell you right now that's not terrible either it said uh maybe cocaine is really good for your creativity some of it's hanging in his mom's office so technically it's in the white house it looks a little uh looks a little paint by number-ish there i don't know let me go back to that i could see that being in the gallery somewhere that is not terrible oh i could definitely say given on what else sells out there yeah and that's the scheme of things we've we've lowered the uh the uh should i get on the biden for the studio oh if you could get a hundred biden are they hard to get look at that one right there i think if you're willing to pay enough money is hunter biden's art any good well what's he doing a line off of that oh he's blowing that he's blowing through it so that's like a reverse oh some splatter paint dude his art's not bad i have to be honest look at him he looks happy doesn't he look happy but he's clean now i shouldn't say he's on cocaine anymore hunter biden snaps a critics of art does dealings [ __ ] him he says wow wow yeah that art is not bad i'm telling you i'm i'm a little shocked i'm saying this but i'm just being honest i don't know if you can get a biden i bet i could get a biden oh i'm an nft i would no no with the nfts
um do you think they're hard to get i think he's having an exhibit here soon i'm not paying 75 and uh he wouldn't come on the podcast up to 500k they uh when he was releasing his book they touted him 500k 100k oh my god but they could probably resell it because then it hung in your studio here that's got to put a premium 102. [Music] [Laughter] oh my god his works are being offered for as much as five hundred thousand dollars a piece they're hoping someone buy it his art dealer said he would follow ethics guidelines that the biden administration helped to develop [Laughter] wow yeah there's a push by i forget who it is in the house ethics that says look we need to know who's buying his art so we it's it's not just a bunch of uh chinese dealers looking to gain some influence yeah but the the gallery in soho says it will not disclose the identity of buyers or details of the sales interesting my god well imagine if that was donald trump jr i bet they would divulge all of that information i bet they would dox those people they would find out who's involved they would go deep on that they're giving them a free pass i don't think don junior's artwork would be how the [ __ ] do you know that good i thought hundreds was gonna suck i did actually i'm i'm not bad yeah no i've i've changed my opinion i'm gonna talk to my wonderful wife and see whether we can even get a scrape i know we were going to buy a house but maybe maybe just get a painting today just get a hunter splattered paint all over i'll just show it to my boys and say that's your college fund right there i got to say it's not it's not bad it's not that but would it sell for 500 thousand dollars probably not no not if it was not if it was somebody else but uh and i think that's that's the the the question but ah what do i know um what do i know what do i know mike tell everybody about your show one more time all right let's bring this bad boy home should we uh this is a good one but i feel bad about it i feel
like i feel like the future is [ __ ] you really do but all our conversations this one seems the most disturbing in terms of the implications for the future no you're right i always try to end on a happy note and i don't know that i i don't know they did i don't what we did with hunter biden because we agreed a little bit better than we thought it's not bad yeah it's not bad it's pretty good like i said i wanted to have him on the podcast and he said well they reached out initially they they touted him as a guest and then some somewhere along the line um i reached out back and i said yeah let's try to get them on and then they passed so they might have just thrown a bunch of [ __ ] out there in terms of like invitations and then they said oh that brogan's probably going to ask you crazy [ __ ] well you know what i don't know what that was that was a white house saying no i'm sure yeah yeah yeah i'm sure that was that was a messaging crew in the white house saying absolutely not meanwhile would have probably been a great conversation i'm not interested in making the guy feel bad if i had him on i would just i i don't fault the guy for having a drug problem i've had a lot of people in here that have had drug problems and you know he's oddly enough he's not the first person to take advantage of a family name in trying to further business i wouldn't even be interested in that i would just want to know what is it like to be the son of joe biden like what is it like to get off of cocaine what is it like to you know to have your whole life exposed to the world in the way he did what did he write a book recently is that what he did yeah yeah i don't know whether it's sold or not i haven't heard a peep about that book yeah but i think it's well he's been more focused on the visual art it's half a million bucks a painting man i was wishing that [ __ ] out i'd be on adderall right now in a gallery going what next i'd be crapping out one campus after another so anyway so the show yeah blackfall is
declassified i don't know whether we want to run that trailer again because no we can't do that oh we can't do that now but but it's coming up we've been filming the second season traveling all over the country and around the world um when will it be released uh in the new year we don't have a launch date yet but they uh after the holidays um and the old episodes are available online uh streaming i believe on discovery plus still uh this is a big science channel uh program on the discovery network and uh yeah it's been a hell of a lot of fun man mike always a pleasure appreciate you sir thank you very much next time i'm gonna be a lot more optimistic no no no i like it like this give me the truth all right thank you everybody [Music] [Applause] you