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what was going through my head at that time I do not know I was drinking just trying to take the pain away it's tough man [Music] so that's a fantastic hey that's football we'll call it man united obviously it's all big and you can have that control over you what people have a voice Jesse he asked if we could give him a couple of days off when things are getting said about you that it's not true he's gonna voice your opinion I knew I needed to leave do you have a suspicion why you won't pick um you do don't you can see it in your face so this is the whole thing what happened is there a day that you look back on and you go that was the hardest day getting that much abuse and I'm already down enough and I've got to perform I was still trying to be Jesse like hey like about no jokes on that but of course it's gonna affect me it's not done much at all this season I've already gone through things when you don't know about I felt like in the world on my shoulders in 2019 your mother was admitted Hospital just kind of really cope anymore did you ever figure out what the root cause of your mother's Depression was I think as soon as had me to be honest [Music] thank you for tuning in to watch this episode honestly an incredible episode but I have to say thank you before we begin because we've hit a million subscribers on this channel now and I it's almost Unthinkable it's I can't you know I'm speaking for our entire team here when I say it's genuinely genuinely Unthinkable biggest privilege of my life to get to do this means the world that you guys tune in every every week to listen to these episodes roughly 65 of you that watch this channel now subscribe to the channel which is amazing if you haven't yet subscribed could you please do me a little bit of a favor um I can't tell you how much it helps this Channel and how much it's helped us to pull in amazing amazing guests and to expand everything within our operations and how it's also going to help us enable the the year that's to come and all the plans we have some huge plans
which I'm going to be bringing to you very shortly really really hope you enjoyed this episode thank you for being here thank you for helping us reach this huge master of a million subscribers let's get on with it Jesse [Music] give me your context what is the take me right back to when you were in those early years as you signed and joined Manchester United I think at seven years old what was life like if I'd been in your home if I'd been in your surroundings in your environment what was life like um life was good obviously Mormon does split up an early age especially when I was born which can make things a lot difficult um but I still had the the desire the hunger so going training we're going to taught me in training you know week and week out you know our trials are Everton City Liverpool so I'm going to be driving up and down the motorway constantly um you know to support me and and take me to training and games and then obviously made a decision to sign up for United at nine years old you know we had a you know great team um no one likes a Pogba um Ravel in the team so we had a we had a great team on um I think outside of that obviously I'm almost very supportive but that was very supportive it was you know football mod you know so I think that support system especially at an early age is important did everybody in your circle around you have high hopes for your for your career when you were that age about 10 12 13 did they think you were going to be a professional football player oh my grandmother did your granddad did yeah he I mean was on their surf pretty much every day practicing skills learning new things um and he had the the belief that would be a footballer and you know if it wasn't for him then you know it wouldn't be in this situation I mean because he took time out of his day to take me enough to you know practice my brother will come down but that will come down you know we play One Touch
two top football you know pretty much on a regular basis and that's my happy place that's where I'm most happy on a football pitch and like I say my grandma was you know very important you know part of me into Liverpool into City into United on Trials because you know people recognized you know their talent but he was there to push me I I was watching the documentary and I saw um a Granddad who looked it's rare to see I mean you one might expect a dad or a mother to be that pushy and direct and critical but to see a grandad being that Savage with you at times was quite surprising can you give me a flip for anybody that hasn't seen it can you give me a flavor of how how um tough he was at times well he got he got he got banned a couple of times like when I say we're 12 years old or playing stalk away and he's come on the pitch after the game and said you're not fit to wear a shirt so you're not fit to wear a shirt not even if it's wearing a shirt I'm thinking like the cop was just looking at me I'm like I can't do nothing he had me on weights at 10 years old like lifting weights went into to man united and said to won the coach's tiny wheel at the time he said like you know I want to get my grandson into it because it obviously is a it was a power lifter for a great burn right so you know he wanted me on the way it's an early early age to try and build a bit of muscle because you know I was always small he kind of drove that from you know being a power lifter you know for Great Britain kind of pass it on to me and Mum was a gymnast it's always kind of tough on her as well mum took it the wrong way um because obviously she's got to be a gymnast but we're gonna be so hard on her that you know eventually she you know she quit on that um but even with me you know some games I'd you know not play the best and you know you get in the car on the way home and you know I'll tell you that look oh my toe was sore today like let's try and make excuses because he saw like
hard on me but he was trying to push like it come from a good place I'm saying so the reason why your mother quit gymnastics was because he was so hard I know yeah he was so so tough on her um and obviously she didn't have really the motivation to carry on probably she went strong enough to to carry on that but you know for me I I was new to be a footballer so you know have him you know my granddad you know my Dad my mom around me at the time you know trying to push me and it was difficult even earlier stages because you know I was living literally five minutes but you know like I said my mum couldn't really cool with me at the time um and I suppose back and forth from another one that's a lot and then like I say I see you driving from up and down the motorway Liverpool straight back to Manchester now I would train at Liverpool for one day have a game for United the next day so you know he put the he put the yardage in you know to get me well or what to eat today you said you said that your mother couldn't really cope with you at the time what do you mean by that it's depression um should be in bed all day well most days um you know go in ask some money for the ice cream like still be in bed so me I was I was happy to go lucky I I'm bubbly like what's going to play out with play football my friends but and you don't understand you know the situation that you know your movies in at the time was so young so I didn't really understand what was going on um until obviously it got it got brought to light you know Maybe let's say about 16 17 you can kind of understand like what she's going through and and things like well she'll never talk about it I should always part it up so your mother was suffering from depression even when you were very very young yeah but at that time you just didn't realize what it was no you didn't know it was did she know
what it was I think she I think she knew yeah but she would never at that time would have really a support system to support her [ __ ] I've really people around her that you know she'll go to like she can go to my PA now and you know go to the doctors and you know show us all out but at that time obviously I think she knew what it was but she couldn't really caught with it she can't really didn't know I had to deal with certain things um and you know for me almost okay so I always play out of fun play football but for her she's supposed to go be in bed like all day she would she could drop me off at school well she should go off at school uh eight o'clock in the morning and then sleep until three o'clock until she bits me up that's how bad it was like she was we were really going for it so she'd sleep all night wake up to drop you to school and then go back to bed yeah she sleep in the daytime pick me up from school probably go back to bed again just lay in bed like cutting a short dark room everything and then obviously you know buff me whatever go before I go to bed and then she'll sleep all night over the last 10 years or so people have become more aware of what like depression and mental health is and this is kind of why I ask if your mother knew what it was because like 10 years ago if I'm being completely honest there was a real stigma around mental health it was kind of seen as someone just kind of being a bit crazy and over the last 10 years thankfully we've gotten to a point where we have a better understanding that we have physical and mental health and this is why I say like did your mother know what it was did she just think she was just sad or she didn't have motivation or did she know she was depressed yeah I think it was a pull in the motivation part I just couldn't get out of bed she's got motivate yourself to get our bed even when I woke up I was dying for it to be there
and I think she came for the quarterfinals and that just made me so happy because in that situation you know not getting out of bed not having a motivation but she find that motivation to come and see her someplace at World Cup that was like I was I told her like I was really part of her I was it's Brave what he did because you know every day in bed depressed no motivation and just to find that little bit of motivation just to come and see you know a son that'll work up and don't forget she's got you know I've got my little sister and little brother as well so you know she's got to deal with them as well um which is always tough but like I say to find that motivation to come and see me at work what was important for me especially because I wanted to I want to live there anyway regardless and I didn't even know she was coming until I was in the lineup singing national anthem for Messina you've seen him really I know just give me a Goosebumps straight away that was so emotional after that and I wanted to perform at the highest level and win the game just for a I think there's a there's a video on on my Instagram of me hugging her for like two three minutes I've seen it and it's there's some things I can that can make you happier you know as a person but just to be there and get up and get changed and get dressed and have that motivation so not a World Cup that's what made me happy this is a bit of a difficult question because it's not always obvious but did you did you ever figure out where or what the root cause of your mother's Depression was um not really no I think I think as soon as she had me to be honest I think it was just difficult for her to love and a child um you know took over most of the time but you know she was still there she was still a mother but just hard for us to do over and you know we had certain instances where
you know we would be in Ben should we like trying to stretch my legs and that like I'm like what's happening I didn't know what was going on I didn't know she had depression at the time also I was such a young age um but for it was just normal like normal for her and she's like you know stretching my life you got training tomorrow and I'm like oh what's going on like I didn't realize what was going on so I shot them like phases where you know should do um you know some extraordinary you know stuff stretching your legs I'm confused yeah it's like like stretching my brains out like before like we went to sleep just like it was strange for me because I knew I trained next day but if I heard I was probably not like natural normal so I mean like I still don't still don't resonate with me today I'm probably not resonate with her today of what was going through ahead at the time like especially when I was born like Gucci handle that situation of having a kid so you're saying basically before you would go to sleep she was stretching your legs in a way that didn't make sense like as in yeah I was like I just want to go to sleep right why well another question like I'm another question but she was too like astronomy stuff and this lasted this has lasted up until today since as young as you can remember till till today yeah and I think she's just a lot she'll still always have depression but she can cope with it now she can handle it because I've said we've got the right support system around but still it's like I say I've got my little brother and sister who she looked after and you know what just come on mum's come on lease some bones to be honest especially from like even a documentary she was nervous to do that like she was crying in the car like the director sport tour I said you're going to be involved in it she's crying like the nervous she's caught with it but you know she's found a courage final motivation you know to do it and
that's still a big thing even though she's going through what she's going through but like I say we can we can handle you know certain situations now emotions you said about bottling up your emotions and generally you know I think men in particular have a real problem with kind of expressing their emotions for various reasons because we're you know we're Macho and masculine and whatever else but um did you learn at a young age at all how to express your emotions did you see did you have models in your life where people were emotionally expressive no only with only mum I'm an underground nod I would always say love you like how are you okay but like that side right not not much like rally hog more of a you know fist pump but you know sometimes you want to see that that love inside especially from you know our father and you know me becoming a five result that's all I want to do with with hope you know Express you know what emotions or um so I mainly got it from like my mum's side Granddad none mainly like say I think it does come into a realization where you know we've seen a documentary and you know as far as what's the point in you know it's a short life what's the point in in arguing all the time because my mom and dad never seen eye to eye so I can understand from my mom's perspective where you know she don't want to see him but I mean that's come to our realization where it's like look let's go together let's have a coffee let's sit down you know documentary really you know walking up and and realize Life's too short to you know because it becoming games and my mom it'd be asking like this is your window box so he's in the Box are you using the box and I'm like my mum but I'll I'll sit in the stands and and I know it shouldn't be like that but you know that's how it is but he wants that you know to give in us again but I can
never see what I'm doing it I never see them giving him time of days to be honest has your mom been able to find a new partner since she picks yeah she picks um not the best people to be honest um she puts a lot on us this but she kind of fries off that for some reason like the bad boys and you know the situation that we're in you know you can't be coming out with these guys and doing what you're doing with these guys because you know it comes back to me they've had a lot of drama with most of them to be honest and the last guy hung himself which is it was deep um but it you know what narcissists are like like one minute you'll be given to the world and then next to be like who you with like he texting blah blah I'm I'm speaking I'm like Mom these guys are not good for you like they're not good for you but some somehow she thrives off them situations and gets a buzz off it and becomes happy so I was in a situation where it's like do you want me to be happy um being with these guys or you know bring her back down to earth so it's a difficult situation but like I say yeah the guy you know hung himself in the end um and then I think after that my mom realized um you know she can't be you know dating these people it's difficult I completely relate to what I can completely understand not that I've had that lived experience but I can understand what you're saying with this conflict of I want her to be with someone but if it's a bad option would I rather her just be alone and then you know I was thinking as you were saying that about many of my friends who have been going through difficult situations with
their mental health and what ends up happening because there might be a gap somewhere or something missing or something not quite stable with you you end up attracting someone like a mirror who is also a little bit unstable or who isn't in the best place and you're kind of are toxic together in a way and often I think with some of my friends it's like you just need to work on yourself first before you yeah you try and find someone who you know because a lot of the time we end up trying to look for someone that will fix us yeah which is never a good thing I think that's what she she did someone to because you know she's not she's got friends but she doesn't she don't go out with her friends and you know be social so I feel like her having you know someone uh you know she could go to his house she could do things with him she could be happier but on the other side it's like that's they're not good for you at all you know to bring they kind of bring you down in a way manipulators and manipulating and they're well aware of you should believe it right she believed like like would I don't know would go probably would go somewhere like me my mom Daisy and maybe travel something or something like that the guy was texting like where are you like what are you doing who you with all right what's your family no you're not no you're not no you're not yeah and it's like I don't know my mom's like dealing with this and I'm like how can you deal with that I'm thinking how can you deal with this and let's block him but she just like she loves the attention she loves it narcissists Target people like that that they can control in such a way be coercive and manipulate and sort of take advantage of their self-esteem and stuff that's what narcissists do because an individual like that a narcissist like that would never be successful in coercion and manipulation of um someone who would go what the [ __ ] are you texting me when I'm with my
phone the [ __ ] do you think they wouldn't they wouldn't survive there so they find that they find their way to people who they can easy targets yeah exactly his Target if I say like looks leave him she's like yeah yeah I'll block him block him look she'll unblock him the next day tough man it's difficult it's hard it's difficult difficult difficult thing um off you go into to Manchester United um when did you when did you get in your view your first real break in Manchester um Apollo and Jose are coming really yeah I mean not in the South it's relaxed Ferguson I'll make it when I'm 23. I'm 23 24. so you know I always believed enemy always believed in me um I think when they were always coming I went ready to play first team football yet and then I think especially on the van Gogh um you know gave me the confidence to play but still it was difficult because you know I was at a stage where played the first game on the van Gogh the money six months out January came went online to Derby and then the season after that was that kind of make our break so I left it till October time and if I weren't playing then then I knew I needed to leave and then he played me at CSK Moscow way Champs League like starting what's up okay freezing cold minus five whatever it was really was like don't wear gloves like what is that don't wear gloves that's okay I don't wear gloves played well and after that stayed in the team so it's kind of a that's kind of a make-up break time for me why is that comment don't wear gloves significant to you because you know especially at United we're brought up
go wear black boots no gloves no long bombs in training just like the basic things we brought up with that so when you go into the first team of course in the warm-up you don't want to wear clothes but for the game you know Back to Basics how we grew up don't wear gloves in the game it's about values right it says values you know it's morals it's the way you've been brought up you know United put that into us an early age a lot of that comes from Sir Alex Ferguson right I'm super you know I've sat here with a bunch of extra Alex Ferguson players Rio Gary Patrice how would you describe the um the culture at Manchester United during that Sir Alex Ferguson period what was the culture like it was good yeah always but a real scoozy gigsy um you're not always but not even on tour um you know it's good to go on tour of them and you know I think you know real being real always was there for advice I always had to speak to um you know on a regular basis like Muslim schools are the same um were they honest and critical as well though are they tough some of those senior Lads um yeah because the winners and you know they've been there and done that and you know did one trophies before and you know it was unfortunate that I went in you know any of the teams that you know won the Prem or are Champs league but you know even on tour it was you know you still win games and you know going on tour with them especially with you know so Alex was you know an amazing feeling remember being on a bench me and Pogba got called up for it's about to manage against Newcastle you'll not knowing if I'm gonna play or not but still just to be there and see how you know they are in a change of room and you know see that winning mentality and I think being at United is all you know it's been installing you from a young age you
know winning is important talk about how you win just win and I think they've been so successful in over the years um you know winning trophies just by having that winning mentality celex Ferguson leaves now it's funny because I'm a Manchester United fan I'm a big fan and I've had season tickets over the years and um go to most of the games at home still today and it and from what I've heard it went from being like a like a family to being run by Ed Woodward and it feeling less like a family like one of the comments one of the waitresses meant said to me was you know when Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gil were here they would come in here and like chat to us and they knew all of our names every single one of our names and then when Silas Ferguson left one of them said to me they don't beat it they don't speak to us anymore it's different I so Alex was like month a month like when we're training with the first year bring us all right 16 17 train with the first team like they give you that confidence know your names know all like from probably under tens to the first team it's not everyone's name you take this time out to understand you as a person or saying your family and like I say you know things change [Music] um you know but with him you know it was good that you know if you could understand the family side get to know your family a bit more um you know understand you as a person you'll see a progression like I say you said 23 34 you'll be in the first team you know to head up you know you can kind of get a big eagle but you know for me it was nothing's guaranteed anyway so I'm just gonna work my ass off 10 times you know more you know so being that first team Rio said to me that when his granddad was Ill Sir Alex Ferguson not only knew but he knew what um Rio's Grandad's favorite whiskey was flowers were and he sent it to the hospital bed before anybody else he got it there so Rio said
to me whenever I've asked the senior players why stuff was so good they all said they would all just before you even get the words out they'd say man management that's what you said though and I think I think even this day and age now I feel like it's important even with Josie Josie used to FaceTime me like randomly a couple times I'll be driving and be FaceTiming me I'm like where are you where you kid I'm just driving home within salvages where's Marcus I don't know everything is at home okay enjoy just little things I little calls here on there even you know Steve Cooper not gonna ring me let's have conversations wanting to understand you a little bit more very soon so I think I feel like it's so important why because it shows that they care it shows and when they care you care back yeah right okay it works yeah like I'll understand you a little bit more than you know as a person not just as a person like how are you like how you operate not in football I want no outside of football as well same with the lads like one way outside of football I get to know your families and I think well I learned that from was England we've got a soft gate money management top got to the 2018 World Cup got to the rooms see a picture of them me and my mum see a picture me and Marcus right home so when you got to your room at Camp yeah in the hotel like I thought I was at home he really has got the best out of England in my in my lifetime in the 30 odd years that I've lived I've never seen an England side that looks so happy and cohesive and honestly ego free um and then it's showing in the in the tournaments we're playing we have hope like I was I was out in Katana I was in the stadium for the England France game and even though we lost it I walked away happy because we're playing great and we're challenging what's he done in your
view um to that England side to to create that atmosphere in that culture I don't think he understands you know others players I think when he first came in he was the first person to give him a debut of England I played with him on the 21s you know on the studies values and and the way he did things and then you know coming into you know the senior team you know give him a debut what are his values New View um I mean he cares about the players a lot and like I say he wants to understand you know the player um you know so for me you know being from it on a 21 level and obviously being with a senior team you know this this trust already there anyway but you know it takes a lot to trust a person and you know for someone new coming into the team um you know we still understands the person and like I say he wants that trust and the trust back on you know you can speak about anything not just football it's about anything and you know we'll understand and I'll ask about oh how's your mum how's your dad this little things go a long way and I think you know the money management side of it is is very important especially tournaments anyway but you know the group was a collective you know understand is his values and the way he does things um you know so people knew coming to come you know it's easy selling shall we because it'll pull you straight away and like speak to you and set you down and you know talk just talk and that's it and I think it's so important what is you know a lot of managers are known for you know sir Alex Ferguson's one of the trademarks of his style is the hairdryer I know that's kind of like over gas by the media and stuff because you hear what um a caring man he was but when you think about Southgate style compared to
these other managers you've had like van Gala Mourinho and all and Moyes Etc what's his style South Gates it's different but it's still got the the hair dryer I don't know really yeah yeah it surprises a lot of people but you need that though because you know our manager is you know nice and unless you you know get away with a lot of things here and there like he's he's on it I will tell you if you're in the wrong way or not I don't know what what player you are who you are it'll tell you something wrong or not but you know another hand is still he still wants to create that good vibe you know with a team and you know he'll shot one you know it's needed but most of the time it's just you know simple you can speak to him you know we'll speak to the group um you know simple words you know enjoy the game with you know we've been here before go out go out win the game you know have fun do the tactics all in the week but you know it's not something like that you know he's a good guy as well I think you know it goes a long way especially you know with England team quick one as some of you know Intel are sponsoring this podcast and for me Intel has made the search for a premium laptop so much easier by creating the Intel Evo platform which is signified by this sticker here in the corner laptop designs only receive the Intel Evo badge when they have been tested to pass Intel Zone very strict requirements so that they can actually perform as you need them to out in the real world and the result for me is a premium laptop that can perform everywhere even with my crazy schedule in mind and most importantly it can handle multiple tabs open and a battery that really lasts throughout the entirety of my meetings whenever you need your laptop for Intel Evo have you covered it's a game changer to find out more and to get your hands on an Intel Evo laptop go to intel.co.uk Evo and let me know how you get on it is that time of year again when my life becomes incredibly reliant on Hill I'm busier than ever I'm trying to be nutritionally complete in all that I do
I'm trying to make sure I get all of the vitamins and minerals that I need in my diet and heal has been for the last three and a half years the primary reason as it relates to my diet that I've been able to be nutritionally complete while also being incredibly productive they've also been a sponsor of this podcast since we launched the podcast and so I owe them a huge debt of gratitude for enabling this show and in fact when we hit the million Milestone on YouTube with this podcast I sent it to the founder because I've never shared this before but he actually said to me when I started the podcast he was like you're gonna absolutely kill it you'll have millions of subscribers you'll be this big you'll be that big so many people will listen and I don't know if I believed it if I'm being completely honest but he believed in Us in this show um before we'd released one episode which is a remarkable thing and he gave me a huge amount of self-belief in myself so thank you Julian Hearn for that but also thank you huel for creating a product that has helped me and help my health stay intact in my busiest days over the last couple of years why did Manchester United not reach the levels on the pitch during that era because when I look at the players that we had I mean [ __ ] hell we signed some unbelievable players it's not people often criticize the glazes for lots of reasons but when you think about the money spent on players on the pitch we spent the money yeah it's like Oh Mr Billy I think it's almost a billion billion billion we spent in players in that period yet we couldn't we couldn't seem to win we couldn't seem to get that cohesion right through that sort of van Gaal Mourinho era and even the David moyzera um what's your assessment on why that is like what why wasn't it I think it didn't click of course it won you know with Vanguard when the FA Cup when we know Europa League Cowboy cop could these these world-class players are coming to United and I'll be honest they're looking average so they would come from a club where they were banging and me and my friends we celebrate our Manchester United chat
we're like here we go Lads every year and then it's like they'll become half the player it's strange because a lot of players have come in unveiled like I say oh you know relaxing training top like this this is quality training quality when it comes to a game this thing clip for some reason not on is it pressure you know when I was playing especially with Roman you know Alexis we decided to enjoy football and of course it's gonna be hard to win a premise if you know been so dominant for for many years but even to win Europa League you know carabao cup Community Shield like we're winning trophies but I think when Jose left and trophy stopped that's difficult another new manager it's kind of like you you have to like kind of prove yourself over and over again it's kind of like you know false like fake promises really I think that's what the heart of it yeah like you know you get I I you're doing more like you know you're playing this game not playing during the time under social yeah because I've played at first and then obviously when when all first came in you know unbelievable you were all in out of control that's what I'm saying yeah and then I said to me before the season you know if I don't play x amount I gained before December and we let me go alone in January he said yeah so then play and generally come West Ham came in and install people wolves you know debating you know is he fair enough is he ready to to go into a team like that and start straight away that nearly didn't happen did it it was off and on and off and on honestly I literally with my brother watching Skies what's news Dave always on the phone I'm like yeah I'm coming I'm there like you want me down there edible Rings no you're not going there it's off it's done it's crying I was crying
me and bro just crying I was like to do is play football it was all right it's back on now yeah I do is play football let me let me just go and play football please as soon as I got there hit the ground running that's probably one of my best seasons to be honest like I think nine goes five assists in from like February to May I still didn't go Euros after that and that was a main integral Euros how did that feel when you found out that you won't go in after having one it probably arguably your best ever year in football before at West Ham when you were you know widely considered to be the most informed player in the league how did it feel it's heartbroken because you know growing up I was what I do represent my country and play for England and to not play the first half of the season than to go to West Ham on the phone I was in there quite easy took it into into the orals but didn't pick me like I say weren't strong enough to probably say look why I'm not picked well that's helped probably yeah what do you think yeah like what what I could have done to get into this yeah should I score 10 11 12 goals I don't know do you have a suspicion why you weren't picked um you do don't you I can see it in your face no because I could see that smirk you do I don't know because I was thinking of form how how can I not be picked do you think it could be something else because your form you can't argue with it can't argue for him off the pitch off the picture was sweet I was in a good mental space so I don't know what it could have been then this is what I'm saying who knows and maybe one day we'll probably get you know the reason but to this day
not sure why in 2019 as as shown in the documentary your mother was admitted Hospital what was what was what was the cause of that of that happening what was the lead-up of events that sent her to hospital just a depression it was just so bad that she couldn't really cope anymore and I think she needed to go away and get help but then leaving me with my little sister who was probably 11 at the time and you know my little brother who's probably like 15 at the time for me I was still going through my own things as well so I went really the the big bro that they wanted at the time because they always get like the phone The Laffy Jesse the bubbly Jesse by that time I was going for my own stuff anyway so I was just autopilot your mum's in hospital you've got two uh younger siblings that you're now primary carer of and how are things going on the pitch you're saying that you just weren't present on Pitch swear now like mentally went there like I'd be on a pitch but still my mini pitch really yeah I don't want to play I Don't Wanna I don't want to quit football I've never quit football but I would have needed a break if a lot down income wouldn't need a break 100 and is this in this is an old first year or second year yeah it's like the second year on almost gone into games I smile bluntness it's not up here it's just like I didn't want to be an ass but it's all of course I'm gonna play about and then you're getting abuse that was kind of what tips it over to be honest after the Derby game what happened so we won but you know as soon as you get on the bus it's no Jesse [ __ ] blah blah like why are you playing froze blah blah
and she fell at Luke shot back to be honest he came down off the bus and I started shouting I'm arguing whatever but don't be friends or United fans but like I'm human I mean of course it's gone off at me like I'm already down enough anyway I'm already going through things what you don't know about and I've got to perform on a weekly basis and when you're performing you're not performing it 100 so of course it's going to be critics and you know you're not playing that well to be abused like that it's kind of what kind of what tips with her that was like I was like no I can't this is I can't be asked anymore like I need I need a break I need to find something some motivation some fire in my belly again to get going again because you know I can't can't be doing this I might be another game next week and I'll be like Oh I'm like just can't be awesome I can't I don't want to play just during that time that time period of everything what was going on mum look after my little brother and sister when I I felt like underwear on my shoulders there's this really kind of like moving haunting part in the documentary where I think you broke your older brother has Louis had videoed you lying on the sofa completely yeah still your eyes are like blank that's how it was like even at training like just masking it just my skin you know the depression side of things the anxiety like I was still trying to be Jesse like yeah a bunch of jokes or not but you know it comes to a point where you actually need to say something because I felt like the world was on my shoulders and had no one sent to like can't speak to anyone about anything I didn't want to speak to another I thought you know what I can deal with this I can handle this I'm good enough to deal with this but come to a point where it's like look Ollie this is what's going on
we kind of kept it in all close-knit to be honest but even just to have like Ollie say like you know how's your mom how is she doing like I could have a conversation with him kind of a conversation with a kind of conversation with liaison woman and that has helped a little bit more just having done a conversation and letting people understand like what I'm going through and then I think I did it I did a piece for the paper um you know talking about and I still don't think people really fully understood you know what was going on until until like like I said documentary came out in order for you to um be able to have those conversations with the people you first had to make the decision to like for you to talk about how you're feeling because once you open up then they can give you that support you talked about how it's difficult to do that when you're a young man did you realize in that moment that you were suffering with depression could you see see yourself and your mother oh yeah probably yeah I think the video sums up the woman want to solve for I'm actually Layla for like three minutes just staring to finish I don't know what I was thinking don't know what's going for my head at the time but I could say like I was I was I was drinking something like that like before bed like having nightcaping like it's not about nothing I'm not doing that far all right what I need is something just trying to take the pain away and like put me at ease somehow I'm like trying to forget what's going on but it makes 10 times worse do you feel the online criticism do you are you exposed to it no don't read it you don't read it no have you ever gone on Twitter and looked at what people are saying no I think that's the worst thing anyone can do some players must do that though right players do it yeah but I don't know why because see if I'm strong enough to handle it now yeah I I'm showing a tangled negative comments criticism whatever
concentrating football there's no point going in Search and Phil yeah in a sewer yeah there's no point why search for it because I'm thinking about like you know we talked a lot recently about players like Harry MaGuire being on the receiving end of a lot of criticism and stick in My Views most of it's completely unjust um but I've always wondered if players actually feel that criticism and it impacts their game yeah I think so can you see that when you're in the dressing room if you know a place like been slammed in the press or online or whatever can you see them drop like their head drop a little bit and then yeah they probably try and mask it a little bit yeah just to like be strong like I can't handle it but something like we are human of course criticism is going to affect us especially when you know the pundits are saying it and it's especially them you know with a pundit saying it more than you know a comment on Instagram or [Music] um or any social media because it gets highlighted more you know when the Press with um you know a pundit saying that's all of course you're gonna see it or someone's gonna send it here but then it's kind of masking it trying to be strong and then you gotta go and perform but I think the majority of players you know in this day and age are strong enough to know what anyone says anymore you you did perform when you went to West Ham you really really performed as we've discussed um I think a lot of people were expecting you to stay there because you performed so well and it just seemed like you finally found your your groove consistent you scored the goals you've got the assists what was your thinking at that point when that loan comes to an end did you want to stay at West Ham you wanted to stay yeah Manchester United when did you come back yeah so I had a year yeah I went into my final year after
that then and I still wanted to go on I wanted to go online and John because I weren't playing again so Newcastle was on the cards in June deal with donor FM obviously the United Squad weren't big enough so let a couple players got online and then when it comes to me John irungu was like no like you're not going alone I was like um well he's gonna know he's got let me score an enjoy if I'm not playing there so let me just go online all right let me play football to Newcastle yeah and um [Music] he's like what do you want days off I was like no that's what I'm gonna play football all right would you want days off yeah so this is the whole thing what happened so then to stop the loan obviously I was pissed um and then when he said about the days off or not I messaged him I was like you know what I'm gonna take two days off now just because you said that so then they put out um Jesse's last for two days off in the media what went on Twitter straight away no I didn't ask for two days off he asked me the open days I was put I'll put it out there the facts how how what was the dressing room like at that point you know when because a lot of players would obviously when all Ronaldo comes in obviously all eventually ends up getting fired et cetera Etc um it did feel like you know they use this phrase or the managers lost the dressing room or there's from a fan looking in you could just see that there was something wrong with the culture at the club players would come in there that were world-class as we said earlier world-class else were coming they were becoming [ __ ] average players you know you've got all of these these rumors leaking you've got all of this stuff happening players at the club feeling like their trust has been broken like you said you've been lied to a few
times it just felt like some there was no someone didn't have control of the place no it won't there's no control I don't think like you say when Sir Alex was there it was full control like a fortress yeah Fortress everything goes for him contracts everything like commercials like everything of course Generations change players grow up people have a voice what like you say when things are getting said about you that's not true you're gonna voice your opinion like say what happened back in the day it'd be squashed there and then with Sir Alex but like you say no people have got platforms to to voice their own opinion and write what they want do you think players have lost lost respect not in this sort of um Eric Tana gear but just in that period that followed through these managers and the Soul share if you think players from what you'd seen had kind of lost respect for the club probably uh it looked like that yeah probably it looked like this wasn't there the same control you know control right there's no there's no structure there's no there's no balance for people doing what they want pretty much on it it's like a free throw yeah it's just a free throw I mean like you say people saying something like that's never happened ever at United people are sending stuff onto a run I think up in the parliament as well like you've got a lot of scrutiny all right guys one of the best midfielders in the world like I've known him since like 16. like she kids Got Talent one like he's one of the best midfielders in the world and still he can't perform at United so there's something wrong in some way you got one of the best midfielders in the world you can't perform and then during the season when you're in National Grid and he goes to France let me see how he plays the fronts it's like yeah guy's sick let me come back like Alexis or not I told you
I don't know what it is I don't know what I can't say what it is I don't know what it is I enjoyed my time on the draws either like I'd want one of my best seasonal drills later I was gonna I'm gonna say that of all these managers van Hal you know Mourinho oh in the in movies in a post solex folk scenario when did it most feel like there was control and that United was starting to be more like United um probably Vanguard to be honest really yeah a yellow structure like everyone understood what he wanted like some people didn't like I love Van Gogh um very tactical knew I wanted to play and everyone bought into that and then of course Josie best manager in the world just wants to win but like you say had that mind management as well and had the belief in me and the trusting me to perform if you could waive a one then if I give you one then I said okay in that all era in that post Alex Ferguson era do one thing to fix the club's issues what would you have done with that one wish have been you know what it is I think uh the saw behind on like with everything like you see like six facilities see tottenham's facilities when we go there a lot of England and that one between left on them like people on Mars head even like like the social side of things and I went to him like tivan so eating about like YouTube and let's do like content now they're so behind on everything I just want him to just get up to date on like the new things are happening like the things that are popping what does that matter you gotta be relevant you gotta stay relevant but in terms of like the training ground it obviously Ronaldo and appears Morgan interview talks about the jacuzzi and the the chefs and the food and the facilities and the weights training equipment and he left years ago yeah he says he came back and it was all
the same yeah how does what impact does that have when you as a player you want the best things you want especially like you know it's one of the biggest clubs in the world so you know you want the best for the best and you know of course you want the best food on um you know you want a swimming pool and the jacuzzi in this island which is it's still there but you know it's like um modern like modernized because like you see like you know cities facilities or not and like you think like I'm like black girl today like catch up a little bit like because like you're way behind at the moment is it is a symbolic thing like as in it's just a it's kind of a symbol that you're not keeping up with the other clubs you're not investing in the in the small stuff which as a player you go well then well we're also behind on the pitch and we're just behind just down in general because like back in the day we have like tables on a table and like um like pool and everything so like you like mentally you know happy and you know with a dart ball and stuff like but nothing and like just just go in you train and you go home sometimes you are like stay at a training ground sometimes you know play that sort of lads and you know play table tennis for the boys or not but this is like like I say just need to catch up a little bit more and I'm becoming a little bit more modern because he changed like the canteen or not but you know to to be relevant and stay in this day and age you know you've got to be more a little bit more modern is that because of the the ownership is that the like the people at the top of the club just don't understand what's important for the players because they spent their money on players but to hear that they didn't spend the money on
things behind the scenes kind of speaks to the fact that I don't know because Sir Alex Ferguson probably could have called the shots back in the day and said we need this we need this we need this we need this whereas these days don't know what's going on and of course now they want to sell the club what the fans have been wanting them out for you know a long time but did the players care did the players take a view do you think um not red it was just like I say just behind was just behind on a lot of things um let me tell you what you want that modern you want the modern things you want the things that are you know popping off at that time but I don't know like who called the shots about you know changing the training ground or on things a lot but like I say just just to catch up a little bit and let me see what what city you're doing on that right so frustrating round best facilities no one talking back in the Press about the about the team you um you chose after your timer um Old Trafford after your contract to come to an end to go to Nottingham Forest a lot of people were surprised by that a lot of people would have thought you would have gone to back to West Ham where you'd had an unbelievable run or even to Newcastle or something like that why why did you choose Nottingham Forest newly promoted team they've just been promoted right yeah um why why Forest I finished all the love to show you know the Wilderness and the hunger to want me dude Who's Gonna Fly me here and everywhere to to get a deal Over The Line um things brought down at West Ham negotiations which obviously I can't get into too much but no I'm not even showed
the love a lot more than you know West Ham and you know when you think about it you know I've been at West Ham anyway before and you expect like you see what I can do I'll see what I've done so you expect him to be like yeah like you know what I will show you the love like this is the contract blah blah let's negotiate let's talk it went like that for some reason they didn't want you to sign no they want me to sign them kind of rush it it's like kind of rushed like it'll be like Wednesday and be like Sunday Friday like there's a deal let's let's talk like you know me like I'm not respect yeah like it's just show a little respect like I've been there I've helped your team like we've got got to Europa League I show a lot a bit more respect on that well nothing I'm just like listen like we love y'all we want your all right the manager will come to your house like the owner wants to fly you to Greece like sand deal like doing everything in the power to get the the level alone on you know for me it's a new challenge different challenge another team of course I've known All the known as United all my life um and I remember leaving United the last day and the physio that we had from under 18s obviously is with the first team now he's like I remember the FA Cup goal I believe you've got you know run when you when you won you've caught like I'll always remember that goal like yeah I was like you know I'm leaving leaving crying all the way home on that like couldn't continue on emotions or not and then like it lasted a long time like I've been there all my life like I know everyone in the club from like staff kipman thinner ladies you know Mike Glennie who scouted me you know to United and like that that's been my life
United but how did you feel about the club when you left it did you feel let down like disappointed yeah a little bit they say false promises here and uh not really give you a reason why you know you went playing so yeah kind of let down to be honest like say didn't really get a sand off we've been there that long I think I deserve one but when you get in that car or you when I've been in the moment it's all worth like I've you know quit my business that I'd started seven years in when there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of employees and my first reaction I got to be honest was like I was like when I knew I was going to quit I was so mad and I wrote this email and it was kind of bitter and whatever else when I realized I was actually going to send this email there was this little pause and this is when I was in I was in Portugal at the time and I got really emotional yeah because that's when you look back and go I'm actually going here yeah like a hit shot yeah it's all said and done now yeah and I'm I'm leaving and so I've redid the email and it was like a really nice one it was like a thank you to like the board and stuff for taking the chance on me and stuff so yeah it's tough tough though because that was tough when he said that when a physio said that I was gone I was gone crying all the way home in the car and people don't know that like people probably thought like oh yeah he's like he's happy silly but I needed to leave I wasn't playing so why am I gonna like I got for the contract but what's the point I'm not gonna play so I wouldn't rather like yeah biggest club in the world but happiness is more important for me and I needed to be happy and go somewhere I'm loved on it's been a difficult start to the season for Nottingham on the pitch um as we sit here now I believe there in the relegation Zone in the table what's your what's your view on the start of the year for Nottingham I think it's always going to be tough especially with new players coming in I
think 22-23 yeah crazy so it's always going to be tough but I feel like I feel like especially the Tottenham game The Palace game you know we started getting a bit more momentum everyone knows you know the rules and responsibilities now we played with each other um you know a lot more and you know we understand each other a lot more so I felt like you know the connection was especially Tottenham and the palace game and then obviously now we've had a break but I think they break and doors does go to regroup and you know really you know reevaluate and you know see what what the main aim is for the season and you know of course we don't bring my location so you know we won't be winning games on a way we need to do a lot better because um you know we're struggling away from home at the moment but you know home games can be really crucial on key because the atmosphere is nothing I've like I've never heard it like before I've never been a nightmare feel like that for the game like Etc I got goosebumps every time and I feel like we need to really I think this big D I think everyone knows what the situation I'm in anyway on just about you know maintain and keep working hard because the attackers have got to score and you know we've got to do our job um you know it's different from me because you know I've been playing United and you know of course we have all the ball and you know we're getting shots and chances on that of course it's gonna be difficult I'm not even where you know you might not see the wall as much and you're not getting as many shots and you're not create as many chances but you know I thrive off these moments and these and these challenges it's a new challenge and you know I'm happy to be there um you know I love training I love I love playing playing in the games and that's the most important just to be happy for me off the pitch you know you're 29 now
players I think the average age of a player usually goes I don't know 32-ish I don't know what are you thinking about off the pitch what's going on in your world I know you've got your you've got your brand you're doing several Investments and sort of deals you've got a media company give me a view of what what that looks like so even you know I don't I've always you know off the pitch I've always I'm always on the go I always want to know what the next thing is to do what's the next investment what can I be involved in what can I do Esports comes gaming love gaming Esports team let's do Esports team brand love fashion that's so brand at the launch for the Brandon was like it was amazing I feel like 3 000 people turned up like Victoria Warehouse and then at the night time little baby was there we've got a little baby to perform anyway even big big then um but I just wanna I just want to be happy and do things like I want to do to make me happy and you know the investment the business side of things of course I want to set up things from my little sister from my little brother for my daughter when she grows up like they can just go into straight away and I think with the media company um it's called One Touch and guess what it's got one touch uh because you play one touch with your granddad mm-hmm something at One Touch um and obviously the channel 4 documentary came from from Latin I feel like it's just easier because if I do a commercial now JBL commercial and they're getting their production but I can be like well you can use my production then like the talent can get paid um Productions you can get paid at the same time so it's a win-win and all the con like anything that we do that we um video record we get last like final
say so anyway so it's all under our umbrella and like I say after football I want to go into acting so maybe starting this now and maybe start doing a little bit of voice over work and like you know reanimation kind of thing um but I need to say drama classes I've not done that yet why acting so when you think about your life after football some people think about being a pundit or a manager or a coach whatever you're thinking acting yeah how come this is all films man I just I've always been a big film lover and you know to be involved in you know a film or a series would be you know be amazing and like I say I need to to really you know home in on on the drama side of things and you know learn like I'm really bad Reliance to be honest what would be your dream role have you got an idea in mind for what um what kind of like acting let's give me an example I think I'm gonna start comedy comedy I'm gonna start comedy first and then you know when you see the interstellars and the inceptions them kind of rules but that's going to take time like you're not going to be you're not gonna be thrown in straight away maybe a bit part here and there but you know for the for the for the future with with a media company I've got so many things you know in in the lineup and obviously it's based in LA and that's where eventually hopefully I want to finish football you want to finish in America yeah I think so at the very center of your documentary is the story of your mother I found this wonderful picture what does she mean to you no she's everything mom like she's been through it Mom she's been for written you know to see where she like where she is today from where she was
huge progression so proud of her and it can be hard because she's had depression for years and years he is like so he's having me probably made that worse for him because she couldn't probably handle you know being them over at that time but luckily we had you know we're not going at that suppose but what you want for him that's one of the best for her I wanted to see you know our kids grow up I know she's so proud of me I've you know how far I've come you know she'll still message me for my bad game or I think like which is good same like my granddad saying my dad saying brother [Music] um but yeah she's been through it but that's not the best friend like I said I wanna you know keeping a in this lifetime long enough to you know see me progress see hope progress into the character up what she's gonna turn into because she's a character at the moment you're proud of her mum yeah massively massively how come just uh from saying in bed you know the age I was there probably although maybe a little bit older not being social to FaceTiming me every day and ringing me every day and just what you're doing and have it I love that and I think my little sister like she's 14 but she's acts like she's 18. but I think she she helps my mom as well a lot which is good because mum never really had someone to like lean on like not even men like not even me Granddad really that much like she's she's not really a darker pop a friend to lean on you know in times of struggle but I think I've been Daisy there you know my little sister you know she's she's really helped me mum and I think my mom you know thrives off that and
[Music] why would you like honestly if you had a camera Arrow so let's leave this is it's 24 seven Carnage honestly I believe you we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest without knowing who they're leaving the question for um the question that's been left for you is what are the uncomfortable things that you banish to the Shadows which means kind of putting the Shadows which would improve your life if you integrated them basically means what are the things that you put in the shadows that would improve your life if they weren't in the shadows I guess so I think just to question things a little bit more because you know growing up on I've never never do that like I've been put in situations where I could question things like corn last question you don't actually not yet but I've never done that and you know it's only taught me over these last couple of years where you know confinedly like man open you know be strong enough to ask a question because sometimes like sometimes it can take time for you know a person to you know to grow up and you know be a mum but you know having my daughter like change a lot of things and you know like I say things don't go your way of course I want to question you know things but back in the day I would never well Jesse thank you thank you um so many reasons you've given me so much joy as a Manchester United fan um over the years I've I've you know not just because of your off the field on the field performance but just generally like the personality you've brought into the game and the happiness you bring to your game um but also the documentary you've released on channel four
is incredibly important incredibly inspiring because it's starting a new wave of conversation around players mental health and really a call for empathy because we never as fans know what's going on out off the pitch behind the scenes and to have a view into that puts puts things in perspective it kind of turns the lights on and when you can see that full picture hopefully people will realize as you've said that your your players you're not robots and that even one comment or one thing happening at home can like all of us like the rest of us human beings kind of have a really debilitating impact on us our mental well-being and how we perform and that's a really important conversation one that you didn't need to to start one that you could have very easily just kept yourself and it's um tremendously strong uh contrary to popular opinion um to speak out like that especially when you're a man and it's not so easy to do so because of the stigma so thank you for that that's incredibly important and I'm exceptionally excited to see in the next chapter of your life play out at Nottingham Forest but then much further on Beyond as you as you embark on a new career in a different industry thank you means a lot to me that you've got me appreciate it Stephen pleasure [Music] quick one from one of our sponsors I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences I think 10 times better as some of you may know by now Blue Jeans by Verizon offers seamless high quality video conferencing but the reason why I use blue jeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with and now they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called Blue Jean Studio I actually used it the other day I did a virtual event using the studio which I think about 700 of you came to TV level production quality all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop so if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually check out blue jean studio now let me know what you think because I genuinely believe I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to
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