Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMy6GESNkDc
It was an intense time. We had to win football games, but all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, "Give me a year. See you later." So, it begs the question, do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? >> It's possible. So, what would it take? Yeah, you change a club, you change the city, and you arrived at a time when clubs were in a period of dysfunction to bring that club back to its glory. And you do that over and over and over again. How to win in a very decisive moment, you have to be the best team. And to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through fire together. How do I get people to walk through fire? I better go back to the start. Growing up, my mom was very caring. She loved people and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things. Even with football, my teammates were better than me and I thought I only can get on that level from the first until last minute. I was a warrior on the pitch. But it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band because you have 90 minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything but the only chance to get something is to give your all. So you want to have the maximum success. Don't waste time with holding back. I want to know why Manchester United didn't. >> No, they tried but there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like. >> Arie slot coming in after you and didn't change much. >> That's super smart. Not changing much and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. >> But this year Liverpool have spent what 450 odd million. You never had a transfer window like that. >> Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that. >> You seem to always be successful. How does someone succeed you? >> You want to be able to become the best team in England? you need to [Applause] [Music] I see messages all the time in the comment section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do double check if you've subscribed and uh thank you so much because a strange way you are you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you [Music] >> Den to understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are. What do I need to understand about your very earliest context where you came from and how can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are today and that everybody knows you to be. I think we all are who we are because the environment we we grew up. My dad was a salesman and my mom came from a family and my grandpa had a brewery and she worked there blah blah blah and all this kind of things. So, but her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more than her own life definitely. And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well, but he had expectations where my mom didn't. So, my mom was just happy that I was there and my dad had always something um where he was not really happy with. And all the things my dad wanted me to do, I love doing. So, he wanted me to to to to be a sports guy. each sport, tennis, skiing, football, that was his life. So he wanted that his son is good at that and he loved doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, "Go outside and and and play something." But then pretty quick when I became better, it was never good enough. And he always So that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. That's him. That's definitely Yeah. Can I keep these pictures? Of course you can keep. That's good. That's good because I have them, but I'm not sure where. Yeah, exactly. Good looking guy. Yeah. >> Was he a tough tough man? >> Yeah.
I It's not long ago. I never I never got hit by whatever. Never. Never. Never. He was just He wanted to to bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way. Yeah. how people who are brought up in in that time probably but not tough endless that you thought I do you don't want to have to do anything with him no I loved him to bits and he loved me he was very proud but never never said it and these kind of things so was he was a good guy a real good guy but with his son he wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough so >> competitive man I hear >> yeah yeah yeah >> so reading about stories of um him racing you on ski slopes and and sprint races and never letting you win. >> That's true. Who knows if it was right. Probably it was right. I I don't know. It was not nice in a way. When you tell the story, it's like my god, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. But you had no chance. It's just you stand on the touch line and you run to the halfway line. And when you when you look back over the the course of your career, are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you or principles or values that he taught you that you think, gosh, I got that from my dad? The one skill I I realized that my dad had without knowing that time. It was a skill he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that, but I have it. You today I know it. I I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment um without being too worried what might people think about it if I'm convinced it's right and I I say talking in public is not a problem it's probably from him my law for people unintentionally that's from my mom so this mix of a very confident and a very caring very confident dad and very caring mom is where I was brought up in the middle of And you wanted to be a doctor before before then. So you were aiming to be a doctor. That didn't work out. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Why? Why? Why doctor? >> No, it was always it was something I wanted to do. So in all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear that money is an issue. Not in a sense that
we didn't have enough. We always had kind of enough. But I remember discussions, bad discussions about money, arguments if you want, who spent that, who spent that. I was a little one. I just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I when I realized I have to earn a lot of money that I can sort it all. I want to earn money to not having this kind of discussions with my wife or with the kids or whatever. So it grew as a as a as a thought when you are a young man and you think what could you do with life and for me it was clear I cannot earn my money with football because in my mind I wasn't good enough and then I got surprised by some people they thought oh there's something um that could be interesting. >> What did they see in you as a football player? What was it that they they saw in you as a young man? cuz I've got all these wonderful photos of you as a young player and >> oh my god. So in my village I was the best player in my village. So I scored the goals. I was the fastest. All this kind this physical talent. I was really fast. Later on when I studied sport science I could jump far. I could jump high. All these kind of things. So it was a physical talent. I was literally surprised by the approach from from professional football clubs. I didn't think who's coming. So it was like the question was are you number seven from the game before? Yeah. Oh come on let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was before that was 80 >> 87. >> And you were 20 years old at the time when you went to Frankfurt. >> Yeah. >> Well I mean a lot happens in your 20th year of life. >> Yeah. >> A lot happens. >> There was a change. Wow. Yeah. I came to Frankfurt. I it didn't take long that I met Mark's mom. >> Yeah. Your son's mom. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. And then um she got pregnant and um December 88 I became a father. >> Were you scared? 20 years old become a
father >> massively. When I heard she's pregnant I was I wanted to run away go oh god it's not me. So the moment when I when I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The night 13th December of December 1988 when Mark was born was the night when I became an adult and the night who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment on, I was always more an adult than all the other people in the in my age group. So they were the university, they were on parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday. I couldn't I played football, low wages, third division Germany. Had two other jobs, one in the morning, one at night. Um and and playing semi-professional football. That taught me the discipline. I didn't have to learn at home because I had no no jobs to do in the house. So I got it a bit later but um it made me the guy I am today. >> Because of that experience when you became a manager yourself did that become a bit of a personal reference point to understand the individuals that you were managing? Because if you were managing a 21-year-old dad versus a 21-year-old that didn't have kids, did you understand them to be different? M >> one is in your, you know, in your own words, one is potentially a man and an adult and one doesn't know what that is yet. >> Yes, of course. I I I don't, but I say I like people and I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want to hear it. >> I think I think I asked that question in part cuz I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had a girlfriend >> or a wife and kids. >> Yeah. >> And I was I was wondering if there's any truth to that, if they have a different stability or >> Oh, it's probably Yeah. There are couple problems you can you can have a great partner married or not and then everything is fine. It's the wrong partner it's not great. You have no partner not great for some and you have too many it's not great. So there are so many things in life. So I haven't never I never thought about that. I
heard about it at coaches Germany very successful manager Oreleer I love him to bits fantastic guy. he had as well, I think he said it once as well that he wants um married players because they go home and stuff like this. Yeah, that's not that's one part of of the personality but not the overwhelming or the the most decisive or whatever. So, it's like and you need on the football is a football game. You need the cheeky the cheeky ones as well. So you need them the one who the street smart you need as well they get out of situations in life and on the pitch stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I I treated them let me say 50% of the time completely the same and 50% what he needs what he needs what he needs but in front of the other teammates. So people, players came to me, why do you um treat me like that? You would have ne would never say that to him. No, because he's from Argentina, grew up without a window and you are from Munich and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him? Really? To bring all these people from different areas in the world together, you cannot expect that they all tick the same way. It's just not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in Seneagal. It is different. So, but then we come together in dressing room and then everybody says, "So, this is the rule for all of you." And yeah, be in time of course for all easy. But then all the other stuff, come on, calm down. You want a um a football team full of different skill sets, full of different talent, full of different personality. want that because that's what you need. That what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one I don't know helmet over it and say so that's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like that. In all the other in all the other moments they have to be themselves. So treat them like that. This is one of the most shocking, counterintuitive um ideas that I've that that I heard from players with other managers specifically cuz I've just interviewed so many of Sar Alex Ferguson's former players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people
differently. And to hear you say the same thing as well, it it it really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business, you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent, treat people the same. Um but in the world of football people like you tell me that's >> I think I think in business in life it's the same. So to lead that's one number one thing you lead yourself so that's the first one in the morning you stand up you have to kick your own but say come on it's not the greatest day but anyhow we go and then then the people you lead you need to understand to do it properly. So now that means you you you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them where are you from, what's your background, what are we doing here and there blah blah and why did you that and stuff like this. So it means it's already in that conversation it's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality early in late out not about these kind of things but how can we get the best out of people if you treat them all the same? It's it's crazy. It's in business. I I don't think it is like that, but I've never I only worked in this football business. Or maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me, it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to be. No, actually where it actually is. >> Can you give me an example that I would know of two people that you treated differently and why you made the decision to treat them differently based on their origin? >> So, you have a young player as an example. So you trend Alexan Allen comes up to the first team. So and then you and James Milner is already I don't know 31 or whatever how oldever he was that time. So you James makes clear first and foremost that trend doesn't go crazy. So because he sorts all these kind of things but there are so many things where just as an example but James doesn't have to do this and that because you know he is doing it anyway. So for for trend you still have to educate the boy. this example which you probably didn't think of but it explains how how different they are. There are different age groups. One is 16 or 17 and the
other one is 33. So that shows already that's not possible. >> So you are talking about the rules in football. So everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do in my kid everybody has to defend the out of the opposition team. So that's everybody has to buy into that. There's no no no. I always said if if you're not Leon Messi, you have to defend. You have you have to defend. So because I never had Leo Messi, so they all had to defend for everybody has to do that. But then to get there that that they that they really grow together as a group in a group everybody except that they are different otherwise we are I don't know an army and and they are different but it's not I mean just because we wear the same shirt we have all our own qualities. So and to that to bring them to life or let them shine. Yeah. You have to be to have to get treated in the right way. And that's what what I loved to figure out how is that how is that possible? That was the conversations I had the conversation with players during a season. Of course there were football talks but we had already enough meetings. The the most important conversations were the private conversations. Why are so when when the play is not training well could be could that he just is not ready for training had a drink last night didn't sleep enough or you ask so that's all what you think he looks like he didn't sleep enough blah blah blah bring him in ask him what's going on and he will be surprised most of the time they either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep they had no drink blah blah blah but they lost focus right now because massive problems at home you without asking you will never find out so here's one guy with problem here's another guy he's flying don't treat them the same >> so one needs more support and the other one you need to bring down a little bit so all these kind that's how you work with people in the end what you want is that the job of a leader is to make the target the aim the final destination whatever that clear like the sun that everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push
them every day and say by the way there's the sign that's around there so that that they know it on the way there you support them in different in different ways it's not so important what I want to say in a moment of anger or whatever it happens emotion do that to us especially around a football game you shout something did I really say that did I did I I did that but it's not so important in a talk conversation with people they which depend on you, you are responsible for it's not so important what you say it's much more important what they need to hear it's not them telling them what they want to hear no what they need to hear to deal with their situation so that's what leadership means not just telling them off for whatever that doesn't work that doesn't work try to understand why and that was I I love that part in my job and I still do that if you want um right now not with world class players all the time or coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young um younger than me at least. And um that's how I understand my role and understood my role. >> Was there certain players in your team that you felt you could be tougher with and others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make that would hurt their performance. I'm reflecting. >> Yeah. Of of course of course you have the Sadio Mani and and and Mosala are two top examples. So >> in the end there are not a lot of people who saw it coming. We knew they are great. We knew they are massive talents. They have fantastic potential but they were not who they became later on in that time. It's not that they came to Liverpool and said boss just want to tell you I defend anyway so we don't have to talk about that. Just explain me how we do it. And we obviously to to be successful as a football team you have to organize a football team to get stability. To get stability you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that based on that they can start flying then we then let's talk about the football part. So and now there are obviously no defenders but we were famous for our pressing and counter pressing. I talked a lot to them and it was and the the way we spoke about it
was just 100% clear. You want to win more often than not. You want to have the maximum success. You want to be able to become the best team in England at one point. Yeah. Okay then do that. Come on. So agreement and then from there we went on but then with years and not because they changed or whatever here a little bit less there a little bit less and I have to decide do I go for them like I would go for a young boy playing in that position and say come on turn run fight jump and take them off in a moment over no of course not you don't do that in that moment it's a it's a story in the newspaper we had this one argument I think with Mo at Westam at at the sideline when it didn't start and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem our problems then are always in public. >> That was not real big thing but in the moment we didn't agree definitely. So um how do you deal with that the next day I I think I can say um we have a very good relationship today um even though on that day it didn't look like and that's all the things. So you learn you try to do it the right way. You try to show the players respect but at one point it's never enough and you have to accept that as well because the players they grow they get bigger and bigger and bigger and at one point you hear years later he never spoke to me whatever another player from wherever says about a former coach about me about Mourinho he never spoke to me I know we spoke a lot we just can't remember and we didn't speak what you wanted or we And I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. So you can never make it 100% right. But you can only do as good as you as it's possible for you. And that's what I tried all the time to create a relationship where even when we had arguments, we always found a way out as me player and it never um got carried into the team that I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. is we always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood, okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sort it, the boss sort it with him or the boss sorts it with us, that we can go from here again. >> From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in as I was going through all of these football
teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain, repeatedly assigned to be the captain. And I wondered why. What was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the team? >> I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of Alfkang Frank um when he came back to mines, he was at Mines very successful spell left and then we were in trouble again. He came back and I was the captain and we had a very experienced player from a first division team coming to mind in the second division. Lmid was his name. So and Wolf Gang Y can we talk? Yeah, of course. I want to make last the captain. Oh, yeah. Good. So then you are not captain. Yeah, I know. So it was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. So my role was not I was a leader in the team. Not on purpose. I was on the pitch an aggressive leader which I didn't like. So heart rate above 140, I lost it very often in a very very not a good way. So really aggressive talk, shouting at everybody and in all that really was I had to very often I had to apologize to my teammates. >> Where did that come from? Because you're I don't I don't know. >> There's a real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of the empathy and the love of people, but then there's this other >> explosive part. >> I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid when I stopped playing that it that I'd take it over. So I was emotional. I was had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But generally I'm I was really I'm I'm a very calm person. So people think because I'm probably I think I'm a motivator or whatever. I do get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say come on boys today we go again. Not at all. I mean it happens from time to time but not that often. No I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit I knew I'm not good enough. Actually, my my teammates were better than me. And I thought I only can get on that level if I squeeze everything out on from an aggressive point of view,
stuff like this. So that was a bit my explanation because they are so much better. But if I calm down and want to play cool football, yeah, I'm out. >> You eventually become the manager of mines. Yeah, you're my age when you get that job and the the former manager's been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a club of this size or scale previously. The chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says they want you to do the job. Why did they want you to do the job? >> Because I didn't find anybody else in the short in a short period of time. So, we played Sunday and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. So the the the the whole story is that Ekat Gson um the manager at that time he we we lost the game on Sunday and we had a little camp a crisis camp let me say because on Wednesday was another very important game we had to play. So he took us to a hotel that we stay there have two good sessions and then we go for this very very important and maybe decisive game. And at night we have a meeting. have a meeting with all players and he said no gentlemen I want I want only to ask one question I do you still trust me are you still behind me I don't want to answer now I order beer for all of you I go out half an hour I come back and you tell me so he goes out where he just brings the beer in we sit there look at each other and think h and discuss a little bit and I was not captain that time yeah I was not the captain so but then it's like at that uh the decisions. No. >> What? >> Yeah. He asked. Why you ask? Yeah. No. >> So, and it's like we are now we have a discussion. Yeah. The majority some people some players didn't speak but the it was clear if you ask the answer is no. >> So, it's like that. I'm not captain but the captain says global you tell him. I tell him why. Oh, okay. But he comes in. He comes in and and I said actually no and he was shocked. He was really shocked. I was like he didn't expect it. It's more like a a little thing to do and then we say yes we go through that together something like
that. But we said no. >> Why? >> Because he was not the right person. He was >> because he we we played bad and we he was I love echard cson but that time for that team was really he was just not the right coach that can happen doesn't say anything about you but we did we wrong training wrong lineups wrong tactics wrong everything. So that's how things go bad in the wrong direction in that time and we had no that time and we didn't have to make the decision yeah who can take over or whatever we just could say no we we he we could have said okay I will prove you wrong or whatever but he ran out and said tomorrow morning 9:00 training >> okay and then he wanted to do a press conference where he wanted to tell the public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season and plays only the young kid. Though I was one of the old players, I was 33. Um, but I didn't know that that should happen. So, he called the sporting director. We need a press conference and I want to talk to them and tell them we change everything. And the sporting director says, "Yeah, we do a press conference, but the subject will be we sack you." Okay. So, done. And now they didn't have a coach. So and then they called me and for that game can you do it and I said yeah yeah I can do it and I did it and we won the game and they didn't find a manager so we had Sunday and other games we the first game we won 1 nil the second game we won 3-1 yeah from the first seven games we won six and Drew won so and we stayed in the league pretty comfortably comfortably is incredible we were a bunch of friends I they were all my friends and I was their boss they had to tell me that I changed from now on in the coach's dressing room. But what are you doing here? Here's the coach's That's your office. Okay. The first night we had a twin room. >> Yeah. >> So, and I got one more game to sleep there with my friend you and Kney there in in the same room. And then next day they all told me, "Yeah, you have you got your own room." Oh, okay. So, but all the rest we were a real bunch of of
friends and they respected me from day from the first second. >> What was your approach going into that? you you go from being a player to a manager of these boys like what what what's in your mind are you thinking I'm just going to let them do whatever they want to do I'm gonna >> but we had wang very very the best the best manager we all had when we were at mines she was exceptional we at mines we were a football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players I think sounds normal but you know in football is a way to to win games anyway we never had that so comes in implements four in the back, ball orientated defending. We did nothing else than that. And we changed overnight into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machine. We are not great football. We were like machines. There were games our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending. It was new that time. So it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that. Then Wolfkang left and none of the other coaches could do that. None. There was no connection to the coaches after Wolffrang. >> Mhm. >> So I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolffkang Frank and now I arrived and the only thing I did when I the two sessions I had were both exactly about that 44 for two ball orientated movements and we go for MSV Ducebook that time there were third in the table. We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like to find a reason why it makes sense that why we give our absolute all in a moment like this. Why we don't invest only the the minimum? Why invest the maximum? Why we would regret it if we don't do it? How better life is if we do it? How much more fun it is if we do it. I love I love these moments and probably something like that. I told them and from that moment on nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So like we were like wow animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team um pretty much uh changed overnight. >> So you fixed the defensive situation, the formation and you also told the players in that dressing room a story of
why we had to give this give everything. showed the they they wrote us off show the outside world whatever you can do most of the time it was real life but that time so in my meetings later on I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever our life was preparation what happened during the week with us in the world but that was preparation for meeting I never thought long about it just remembered that when I when I needed it we spoke I I told the boys but that time they needed one person to believe in them and I did. It was not that I had to convince myself. I have to tell them now before that season I told in an interview this is the best squad Mson ever had. It would be really difficult for me to play but good for us that the team is so good and then we were in an hopeless situation before I took over. So I when I became the manager I was the one who thought this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet but we will make sure in a few weeks they will have a sense at least. >> How important did that prove to be this idea of making sure that the players you have throughout your career had belief in themselves? >> That's all it's all about that. It's not football. It's life. You had no when you started your podcast you people probably told you well that might be something for you but you were not sure and then with each little thing here and there. Oh how many people listen to your first podcast? >> Do you remember? No no no I think I read it somewhere >> 40 >> something around that was under 100. Yeah. >> So it's a start. So it's a start and and all the rest is if you want history and that's always in life like that that it's just give it a chance of course it makes sense you believe in yourself but not everybody can do that. So if but then if you meet somebody who helps you with that who has a perspective who can see something in you yeah then tell tell them why you should keep it for yourself. Oh my god I think he's a talent she's a talent whatever she's good at that he's good at that. Yeah. Why we don't tell each other? So where's the problem? >> Did someone do that for you?
Told you that you should believe in yourself. They saw something in you. >> Once I said I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's the truth. But it's true. I never struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school were genius. And we sat together doing exactly the reading the same books. Did invested the same amount of time. They had the best A levels in school and I was far off that. So a normal reaction would be I'm a dump obviously but I never thought that and I don't really know why why why that happened. So um I took it how it was. I thought oh respect you you can remember all these things. Crazy. I can't >> but you had lots of players that struggled with confidence. >> Yeah. Yeah. I try to create a situation to make sure that the player if if they are not confident yet they are confident but you know there are moments when they lose it confidence is like described it once as a little flower and constantly somebody steps on it it's like that oh and then it's growing again and oh now we are confident again stuff like this in football it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes so if a mistake costs you confident And that's a re a real challenge. Um but what I try to if you would believe as much in yourself as I do that will be a start. But as long as you cannot do that just trust me. So you are good because I don't work with not with other I don't waste time. I don't that's what and it's true. I don't. So, I really I really see something and if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it. Um much more patient than the public wants me to be. But of course, the the idea is that that one day I help you learn flying, but in the end, you have to fly yourself. Obviously, I cannot I cannot do that for you. That's what it is football. You have to perform alone. They cannot look at me. What shall I do? And that's my job is to prepare them as good to make it the education the co the coaching as as wide as they just pick for me. That's the idea but not too much as well. It's yeah it's obviously was a good time in my
life doing all these kind of things. I I I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Um really good time. Do you sometimes have to lie in public to protect a player's confidence? I was wonder I wonder this because you see managers come out and say, "Oh, he can't play because he's injured or whatever." And they they say things, but I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players because they're struggling or >> Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I ever had to lie to be 100% honest. I don't know. But we protect players. Super important. So for me, super important. Um he lacks confidence. That's in football obvious you see that you run oneon-one on a goalie and you don't make it you can see it it's because you don't have confidence that's that's how it is there's not a lot of other reasons it can be wind weather ball opponent it's there but you do it once you do it twice three time yes that's like that's not good for the confidence of nobody having that in training you you have the job is not to talk too much about to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training that it doesn't last forever Well, um the one thing you have to protect players from is public >> try to because they are ruthless in moments. They don't care until something happens or whatever. Supporters sometimes I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they were not angry disappointed yes but not angry in a way that I don't want to see them anymore. So that helped. But of course you have to protect them sometimes. You have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well. So that's the job. >> Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your team members? And did you did you ever consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? Cuz I think this now as a Manchester United fan, I think some of when some of our players are posting on social media little indirect messages and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, "Oh god, troublemaker. We had situation that players text us or or posted something at night
and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. >> Mhm. >> So, not that I read it, but people tell me, "Oh, last night this and that happened when 3:00." 3:00. Okay. What do you say? This and that. Oh, what I do in these situations, even deleted, I go in the dressing room and they all last night this and this happened. uh got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell everybody. >> You would ask him to say in front of everybody. >> Yeah, >> that's nice. Eh, no. The the thing is I didn't I don't go for him and tell him how can you write that or whatever. So I said, "Come on, I I somebody told me so I know it." Ah, not important really, but come on, tell the whole team what he wanted to say. and they start it's not great in that situation that I don't like to bring people in that but I think that's a deserved punishment for something like that but actually the effect is nobody ever did it again because nobody wants to be in that situation in a dressing room sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever I discussed individual problems if it was Okay. Quiet in front of the team if it was important for the team. Yeah. Come on. Explain why you did that. Why you went out that long? What happened in the last two hours? >> This photo here is of things going well for you. Yeah. Minds >> before I had that to get here. We we that's these are tears. The tears the year and two years before were not for the same reason. So you probably know we didn't get promoted for a point then a goal. First a goal. First a point then a goal and then this happened. That was the first day when it really went well. >> So this was the day that you were mind promoted for the first time in their history to the Bundesliga. >> Yeah. But before winning that I I learned how to lose. This is very important. I would say I think that's again to learn even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible you have to accept that from time to
time you lose and then keep then when you then keep going you have a good chance if you learn from it a defeat is a defeat if you don't learn from it if you learn from it it's a very very important information and obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities to get did and opportunity to learn from it. But this was the biggest relief in my life. Not happiness that I was just that's pure relief. The pressure was mounting. I was crazy. Not only on myself, nobody not from outside. I don't know even know what the outside world thought. But to make it happen that year, that was really special. But it took two years of coming close. >> Yeah. >> And dealing with the disappointment. >> Yeah. >> True. >> When I spoke to Jamie Carrager, I I asked Jamie Carrager actually this earlier this morning. I said I said to him, you know, what what was he curious about with you? And this is actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses in your career, whether it was in the Champions League or I remember when you were headto-head with Man City that in that season and you were one point shy of winning the league. And his question was, he's fascinated with how you you were so good at dealing with the disappointment of near misses because sometimes near misses can people. They can turn them into a downward spiral. It can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it appears through your career that near misses ended up being positive forces for you. It's not that I knew that always but what may we spoke about very early but what made me the person I am these people of course mom dad my faith as well so and I I knew always that I'm not here to get everything I am here to give everything so that doesn't help in a moment when you when you when you fail for a point But in the general understanding as a person of course it helps. So I'm not surprised that I fail. I don't I don't think I don't see myself as a constant winner in my in my mind. I see myself as
a constant tryer. So I don't know constant winners but there might be some out there. But I I just can't imagine a world where it would be like that. all all the people running around there, the all the the happy people, they win all the time. Nobody wins all the time. Nobody does. So, it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get and then you want it more and or or not anymore or whatever. So, the moments were not great, but I learned it here. Doing it that day changed the the destiny of the club of M. That's how it is. My destiny, the players destiny changed everything. So, we wanted it that hard, but we learned before we have to try harder. And that's what I always took. If you don't get the result you want, try again and try harder. >> It was Christian that gave you that job, wasn't it? >> Yeah. Mr. Hyel. >> Christian H Highle. I um I spoke to Christian Hyel. He made a >> His English is very funny, isn't it? >> Yeah. I've had I've had to I'm going to translate it for the viewers, but I'm going to actually play what he said to you in in German. >> Oh, of course. >> So you can hear it. >> Here we go. >> Global. >> Yes, dear Global. We've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First, we were both players. Then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mitz. You changed an entire club. You changed an entire city. Back then, we were promoted to the Bundesliga together. And today, Mines has been in the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city, and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that. And I'm always asked, "What makes Jurgen Klopp special?" To this day, he has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important. apart from the fact that you are of course an outstanding expert. I hope we'll see each other again soon on
our little shared island in Mayorca. Um, and have a great day and lots of fun with your podcast. >> Wow. >> You know, >> yeah, I told you >> you changed a club. You changed the city. >> Yeah. >> You did that over and over and over again. You went on and did that again at Dortmund. um winning a huge range of awards there at a time when they were weren't considered to be hopeful and then you went off to Liverpool and did the same. And as you I was reading about how when you traveled to Liverpool there was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across >> um the channel to Liverpool because they're all very excited. And you arrived at a time when they were in a a period of dysfunction, kind of similar to where Manchester United are now, I guess. >> Yeah. >> And you managed to bring them up from being a team that were dysfunctional, hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering that if Liverpool would ever come back, I was hoping they would never come back again, but you brought them back annoyingly. When you when you arrived at Liverpool that day, you said in that press conference that you're the normal one. I remember that. What what did you observe when you arrived? What was the culture? What was the feeling? And what was your first thought about what you had to do to to bring that club back to its glory? >> The feeling I got I had roughly a week to to think about everything from the from the first call to the signature. I think >> did you have other offers from other clubs? >> Oh, in that moment not. But in the summer I had a lot of offers like before when I when I finished at at Dortmund. Um but in that moment it was just Liverpool but it was kind of destiny because I didn't want to it was not we were on a family holiday in Lisa with the with the two boys and I sitting there phone goes my agent why is he calling boys look at my face I say
Liverpool >> and the both yes the boys >> yeah and when I looks what what is and she didn't see my lips when when I spoke what and realized oh god we start again before she knew we will we will um go to Liverpool. >> Why did your boys want >> Come on. If you are not a Man United fan, you know what what Liverpool means for two people. Um and they they they Yeah, they loved it and we we fell instantly in love with that club. So >> did did Manchester United ever call? >> Yeah. Yeah, I spoke to them. So in the year when Alex retired, they they spoke to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course they were interested at one point. So I was that time I would have been interested. I was a young I had a sensational team at Dortmund. My god. So somebody they probably thought my what is he doing there? Um later on I heard that my players Hando, Adam Lana, James Melon. So that they flew to to to Real Madrid when we played the semi-final in the Champions League to watch us. I wanted to see what is Dortmund doing. My god, what a football that is. I I mean, you can get bigger compliments. It's really It's really good. >> I want to know why Manchester United didn't >> No, no, no, no. They they tried. I I It was wrong time, wrong moment for me. I I was in had a contract at Dortmund. I wouldn't have left. Not really for for for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted in that case. Now, it was one of a few options, I think. Um >> So, it was you that turned down Manchester United, not Manchester United turning you down. >> Yeah. That way. So I Yeah. So >> we need someone else on negotiations. We need >> Yeah. No, no, no. He's not there anymore. The guy who negotiated that. So um there are now other people in charge. It's long ago. Long ago. So >> why why would a guy like Manchester United's often known as the biggest club in the world? Why wouldn't you take that job? Why didn't you take that job? >> Manchester United, the great Manchester United. >> This is typical. We are now not in private in a private space. So there are some reasons what the people in that
conversation told me which I didn't like. >> Oh really? >> So United was that big. We get all the players we want. We are like we can this we get him. We get him. We get him. We get him. And I was sitting there. So I it was not my project. It didn't feel like my it was a wrong time but on top of that it was not my project. What you >> I didn't I didn't I didn't want to bring back I don't know Pogba Paul is a sensational player my god but these things don't work usually but these kind of things or Cristiano god we all know that he's the best player or together with Messi the best player in the world so but bringing back never helps in that time in 2013 it was obviously not about Cristiano maybe about Paulo I'm not even sure when don't get the numbers together but it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go. >> It wasn't about the football. It was >> No, not at all. And I sat there and was like, "Nah, I'm not sure. That's not for me." So, and then the pure pure football project comes up with with Liverpool and the sensational talk to to Mike Gordon should that's really important as well like he was the is the owner. I know John and Tom of course as well, but Mike was responsible for us. I wanted after the talk I want to be his friend. He's such a good guy. So that's how it started and in the end yeah was pretty special. Yeah, I find this fascinating because as a Manchester United fan, I I observed from the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left, we adopted a very different approach and we brought in all these massive name players, Di Maria, Falcao, Ibra, you know, Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Ronaldo and we we failed and it it taught me something as an entrepreneur about what matters more and I actually when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your philosophy that you you prefer attitude ude and character versus how many Instagram followers you've got and what you've done in the past. >> Yeah, of course. >> And I wanted to get your take on why you think the last This is very selfish of me. The last sort of 15 years at Manchester United haven't worked out as an objective observer.
>> I want to I need to know you you can't no you you're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful and we are currently >> underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view? >> I know you don't want to hear that. >> You have a hypothesis, though. >> I didn't think a second since I joined Liverpool about what Man United did, right or wrong. I just didn't. So, it's like I buy into a situation. So um I went to Liverpool and that moment you became our opponent. Not my enemy but an a very important opponent, one who is much more fun to beat than maybe and and and like others like with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool. We lived there for 9 years. So I know so many people have great people. Yeah. So absolutely. But then you go to the game and think, "Oh my god, that's something different." Not I make that up. It's like that. Um but I really didn't think but but always in football is like this. And again like in life you have a problem and you only try to find a solution for now knowing you have two days later another problem you know it but it's just for now just find a solution for that problem there's no mid no long term okay we have to deal with that for another day or two and then we can sort it and that means in in our sense we have to deal with that for a year or two at United and then we can make a big step then this in our case and football case contracts are running out, player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this, but because you're in such a rush all the time just because you want to or have to win the next game a little bit like that being now in the situation probably United in the years when they were not happy they would buy the time from that time becoming second and nobody was really happy there and they think oh remember that in that time second was not good enough and now you are not even close to that but that's not a Man United story for it's just a football story. It's always like that in the foot in the world of football. You win, you're the greatest. You lose, you know nothing about the game. You draw, you're boring. So there's not that you're constant. And it's only about
your own idea what you really want to do and where you want to go. And everything in life is about development. We today you were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago. So it means the time between then and now counts. So if it counts for me the next 10 years do the same. So it's important what I do. It's important what I see in a year two three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that. And especially the destiny and and the future of a football club a player can score a goal can score five goals will never sort the problems if you have >> real problems. And I don't know the United problems but that Liverpool was the same. It's not about that on the day when we when we lost sold Phil Coutinho. That was not the day when I thought oh good that we have the money. I lost the player I wanted to work with for the next 10 years if you want. It was not that that I thought and we can invest it. Yeah we invested it smartly. That's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and sorted that. That's we had to sort differently but we found two really solid solid and becoming world class players with Allison and Fandai that was for the future to go from there and now that's the difference I think >> I've had so many founders speak to me and say why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me maybe the copy wasn't good the creative wasn't strong but usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person and if you're in B2B marketing that is much of the name. And this is where LinkedIn ads solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set. And their network includes over a billion professionals, about 130 million of them are decision makers. So, when you use LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary. And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an
extra $250 credit from me for the next one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time. And the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These are what I call barefoot shoes by Vivo Barefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want to need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in our lives, we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes for 6 months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. So if you want to start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivarefoot.com/stephven and you'll get 20% off when you use code Stevenb20 at checkout. That also comes with a 100day money back guarantee. What I love about football is the analogies to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team like we're seeing, I think, Crystal Palace at the moment, who objectively don't have maybe the best players in the world. They don't have the most money. >> Bournemouth as well. >> Bournemouth as well. Yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic and it's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the most talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap between like and that's There must be something. Now look, it's it's a situation the moment and the situation with Crystal Palace and Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If if Bournemouth wins a game one nil and doesn't perform particularly well, you take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would really find an article in in in the newspaper about it just winning and go but United is United each step is under the under focus and what oh he didn't they won but he didn't play great. So they they win a game and then somebody doesn't perform well. So pick him out and go for him full throttle.
You think, "Wow." Right? So the coach has to pick him up again. No, no, it's all right. Stuff like this. And the next one and the different completely different situations. The only problem you have now in the time you try to sort your problems, all the other clubs improve their situations. >> Mhm. >> So Liverpool has an incredible squad. Yes. Are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad. Arsenal, incredible squad. City city, I mean, and they want to strike back. There's already three clubs. Chelsea. >> Mhm. >> Huh. They in that time when everybody thought, do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who they own and who they loan and stuff like this? Obviously, somehow it pays off. So, they have already five clubs. They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No. Mhm. Yeah. >> So, and here's the problem. Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe this year and build on that. So, find um find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a reason to enjoy a a one nil victory, two-nil victory at home, whoever against whoever. Southampton. Try to enjoy that. Really be happy. go home and not listening to others who tell you then. But Southampton, that's what we had years ago when we decided after a draw against West Brom to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the cop and hold his other hand and and said thank you. And then the press conference and Tony P is uh uh what a what the world we are living in when Liverpool with the money they spend celebrated point against West Brom. Oh thank you. Um so but it's it's it's your choice how you grow together again. And I think after all the years now without a lot of good football they need to find a way to grow together again. >> I fully believe in Reuben Amarim. Um, I think he's he's a man that's focused on culture. And I I like how honest he is as well. And I think with the team that they have around them with people like Jason Wilcox and Inos who I've met um
and Colette and all the others that are there, I think we're we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that because I just think they're aiming for more long-term things. They're aiming at long term. >> The only problem is you have no clue about football, but besides that, >> that's a small problem. >> So, yeah. Yeah. >> Good on you. Good on you. >> I have faith. >> That's great. >> Yeah. I don't know if all my friends do, but but I certainly do. And the only reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long-term things now >> and not buying >> that's what you have to do. >> Players because they have loads of Instagram followers. Yeah. >> When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to come and join, you said, "Well, the reason you chose Liverpool is cuz they felt like a football project versus Manchester United who seem to be a bit more less football oriented, >> but but it's not the same year. Two years two years before. >> I'm wondering what is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project?" >> Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I knew the team. So if you look at um on top of that I didn't think it that way but when Alex left it was they became champion in his last year but it was not that the team was the one you build a future on. So that's how it is when you come in as you it's is a bit built to fail if you want it but I didn't see it that way in that time it was had other reasons but if I would have thought longer about it probably >> yeah so David Moyes fantastic fantastic manager um proves every year um couldn't do the job and since then it's a bit of a problem so a new team needs time he was stitched up he was >> so needs time so Liverpool the team as I I said when I him. Um, nobody likes the team. Not even the team likes the team. Um, I like the team. Do I like the team? I knew the players. I thought when Bobby Faminia moved there, I said, "Oh, that's a smart that's a smart transfer." I know. I knew Christian Benteke. I love Debri. I knew John Hennison. I knew Adam
L. I know many plenty players and heard only kind of good enough thought, well, let's see. So, I like the team. So, that's a football team, proper football, super attitude. I mean just on day one I could have um um played Hendo Millie and Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my first lineup. But this it's a proper engine room. It's smart players. It's people who really want to want to um perform, want to work hard and all these kind of things. And what do you need for a start? I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in a summer in the preseason and I was massively disappointed about the dressing rooms where I remember you have this pictures in your mind you think oh my god it's envy and you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room and you run against the wall and you think kidding is that all where's the rest so English dressing rooms really really small in the old stadiums they think oh my god how can we bring it. It was built for 11 players and now we come here with 30. So people in that room doesn't help. So I I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's happy. I knew that I like the team. Um that's a good start. >> And did they tell you that they were going to develop the the ground the stadium? Did they make any promises to your assurances? Did they tell you you're going to get >> They didn't we didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That's that's nothing I need to talk about in in this kind of conversation. I know my the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team not the club that I was involved in all the other stuff happened with time with time just that be I realize this is my responsibility now as well um you never know I don't plan seven 8 n years spells in a club it just happens it's like I don't I don't think they could sack me but I know could happen so I plan from a specific moment on when I sorted the first few things then I plan mid and long term or always did knowing it might not be for me but um I was I was never worried about that too much. >> What was the first first couple of
things you thought you had to change to get them winning and to get the the confidence back and to ultimately bring the city behind you? Was there anything you thought okay the first thing I'm going to have to do is get rid of him, change this? So they a year before like not in that season but the the the two years before they nearly became chairman was a different team and it was a very specific way of football offensively. Oh my god they were ridiculously good defensively. Yeah lucky a good goalie there stuff like this was not the same. So we didn't have the team from that time we didn't have Suarez. We didn't have Sterling. We didn't have Yeah. We had still um Dennis Dur stuff like this but it was different different team completely different I I arrived there I had five strikers >> there was Chris Maker Denny Ings Dorigi Bobby Firmino Daniel Sto five strikers and I want to play one striker system how do we deal with that but it was it was fine and there was so much quality doesn't really solve it so the first thing I had to sort is like to organize them so find a way to make sure that they understand that we have chance to win the next football game. We have to do a couple of things for that. But Tottenham, three days time to train. Yeah. Jump in their face and let's see what what what we get for it. So that's it's not organized. It's like we started with an organized chaos. So I gave them a few ideas about where we have to where we want to put them under pressure and in that moment now do it. And afterwards we work we talk about it how it worked out because there was no time to train. We anyway we had no time. the week after we played European League I think in the midweek and then you play again and no it's like you are in a rush and a coaching career with all the games you have to play if you really want to a top team especially if you really want to develop a style of football you are set up to fail because it's like you have no time in the preseason there's no their players are everywhere playing big tournaments blah blah blah and then you come two weeks before the season starts into your camp okay so let's try let's go from here. Then you play top teams play every 3 days from a specific date
on. We obviously we lost a lot of finals. That means we played a lot of finals. That means we played all the games until the end of the season, which is a lot. So there's no really time. So to train and really develop things. So you have to use each little moment to implement a specific idea we all can buy into. And that's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham. Simon Mino they had to make a good few good really good saves but they had to do as well and that year Tottenham was really strong there. We came second behind Leicester I think that was that season and that's a start. >> What are those little ideas that you started to implement one by one? >> So many if we don't have time to change football. What do you mean? We are all not genius and we cannot go there and show them a little bit. Pass the ball here, pass the ball there and if you pass the ball back again, you can shoot on your alone in front of the goal. That doesn't work like that. So I I'm 100% convinced that you have to make sure that you are stable and if you're stable that means that the other team whatever they try it's not easy for them to get through and shoot just finish. I don't like that. So if you can avoid that do it because we are people but we are now realized a few times it's not easy that you if they have five six chances after each other opportunities after each other then it's like that you you don't feel great nobody plays his best football if each attack of the opponent ends in the arms of your goalie that just doesn't work so how can we do that in stability is to organize a team that's number one two and three on the to-do list of a successful manager and that's what I did we organize and then be told them to run their socks off. If you people have to sh you have to show the people that you want to change something, you have to show the people that you want to achieve something. How we can tell I can tell them but the end you have to show them. So run and and they went for it and I I loved it so much. They loved it so much. It's easy. They all top fit. They want to run. So just show them which direction and it goes. And then we developed step by step our own way of football. Brought players in step by step. Um but we got we got
stable pretty quickly. Not as much as we wanted. I think we became sixth, seventh, eight. I I don't even know. First season, two finals. Great. Lost both. Not great. Um but then we we knew each other and we loved working together with this group. Brought in super players, really super super players, super character super players and stick together. And I mean what can you do? We we lost it. We lost the European League final in Basel. How it always is, there's a party after the game. So you cannot organize a party, but you all know if you lose, who wants to go to the party? So I was a new manager. Yes. Not that new anymore. 7 8 months in or so. And I realized some players under there, but was in a team hotel. So I told I called them, told them all here. Come on, come downstairs. Was really I tell you what this was only the start. We only are together in six, seven months. This is not the last final we played. This is the first final we played. Okay, we lost the car boy. It's not important. The first international final we lost. No problem. We go again. And I went on stay on the dance floor. It was a dance floor. And I said all coming when we saying we are Liverpool. I mean, I had um had a few parties after finals we lost and I always thought I don't waste time at all on not being happy about what we achieved over the whole year because qualifying for a final is a real achievement. Losing it is not great, but until then everything was fine and I never accepted that we ignore the rest. So we have a party and then we went on to achieve new things and we need a bit of time obviously but it was okay >> and this goes back to the point earlier about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose to make sure that you don't get depressed and >> if you don't learn from a defeat it's a real defeat if you learn from it it's just it's a very very important information and that's how I always understood understood it I had enough opportunities to learn. Really, how I said I lost more Champions League finals than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. It's the truth. Anyway, >> you're known for what they call heavy metal football. >> Yeah, but that's Yeah, I know.
>> You like that phrase. And do you know why >> I said a lot of things, but it's like they that I said that it was not in my mind that I thought you want to play heavy metal football. They asked me about Asen Mena on the comparison and they they think we are similar in a way and I thought what and I know so come on don't be disrespectful to our I'm a young baba man from somewhere um but if you want to compare us then I'm not sure that's possible because Azen's football is rather like an orchestra and my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band but that was the first day when I thought about my team I got heavy metal band but it. >> But it's true. >> Yes, somehow. >> It is true. And I know that more than anyone as a Manchester United fan watching. >> I'd hate playing your football teams because they they ran so much. They were so passionate. They never let up. They would they could always win in the last minute and the intensity was you were just anxious as a as a football fan watching the games because it was so fullon and it was overwhel. It's almost overwhelming emotionally. And I I remember through your era you would win sometimes you'd win games by seven. You'd score seven goals, five goals. Every week when I pull up my phone to check the scores that week, oh, Liverpool have scored five again. Oh, they've scored seven again. They've scored six again. Sometimes you would concede three, >> but you it was it was it was crazy how high intensity the way you played football was. >> Don't waste time with holding back. I I don't understand it. We have nothing to do 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn. I had to learn to to manage games inside me until the last date was like come on come on try but then I had to I I mean I grow up and I got more mature and stuff like this it was like okay come on hold the ball control the ball all the things you you at one point you do you you learn some at any time on your on your journey and that's that's how it is and I love the game so much and could play it not that good that I
was so happy that I could work with these outstanding players. I couldn't so I I loved it. I enjoyed it so much seeing them doing what they're doing. I was I was number one supporter of my team teams wherever I was. I loved what they did. So that's what I I I carried through the week. I didn't tell them. I I told them I want to be your friend, but don't I cannot be your best friend because I'm the one who tells you off very often and doesn't tell you this is not right. This is not right. But then but the feeling the general feeling was I love them in my mind. My ex- players I love them all and some of them don't love back. Let me say like that probably for some reasons or whatever but that doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs. >> Do you think it's important how you win? Because you you know this heavy metal high intensity oh you win >> was great for the fans. They they love watching three four five six seven they love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters or do you think it's just about getting the three points? >> Just say we didn't win that often. 5 nil 7. >> It felt like it. >> It felt like it was >> and against United we did. >> Yeah. No. Uh you can cut it out. Um no, it's Yeah, of course it's important. So if you have your backpack going to stadium as a player, if you have your boots and if you have wear shirt, don't waste time with anything than giving you all. There's no guarantee to get anything but the only chance to get something. So give your all from the first until last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people want to hear. But we earn the money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all these kind of things. And for that with all the stories around the only thing we really have to deliver is give your absolute all in a game like that. Whatever whichever game is there 5:30, 2:30, 3:30, whenever the game starts, give your absolute all. >> But why not just 1 nil and defense and boring and pass it around and
>> that happens. That happens in games. You are you realize okay we score a goal but today is not our days. Come on let's get it over the line. that happens but it cannot be the target or the purpose for the next game again let's do it like that not for there are clubs if you own the only realistic target is to stay in the league a wonder is a wonderful result but we talk about a club like Liverpool we are we were are bigger than that you have to win each football game when you are manager of Liverpool that's what people that's not that before the season anybody thinks oh 38 eight games. Oh, it makes sense. Oo, more than 100 a nobody had ever. So, it's not like that. But still, each defeat and each draw is like, how could that happen? It's like and that's why you have to to play in a specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do, but the top clubs, they have to win all the games. And when you have the chance, you win them clear. You win them with a proper result, stuff like this. You have to make the people enjoy the football you play. And I love to do that. I I loved it. I honestly it's like the the games we played the the the the results we we had were just incredible. It's just amazing. Not all of them. And I love the one nils as much as I do all the others. The Champions League final was the worst the worst final of all the four my teams played. But we won it. Would I take would I change say okay let's the other three as well a little bit. The performance in other games was really good but we lost. So here we are. Yeah, it was not fantastic but we won. So all fine. It's about the result but if you have a result and another result it has to lead to really good football at one point as good as possible for your specific team. You want to stay in the league do it with good football. You want to qualify for Europe do it with good football because we are there for the people. We don't it's not there that we just go home and people think oh it's unwatchable I'm not sure I come next week again that's not that's not fair try to play the game is really is is really cool game so let's make sure that everybody sees it >> and what is the Liverpool way what is inherent in when you come to Liverpool and you are the manager or you are a
player what is the thing that you have to do that's specific to Liverpool in order to be successful >> you have to understand the community and with the community as a city community as a bigger community around the world and there are so many people and this club went through a lot not as the only club in the world but come on for that moment we just think about ourself went through a lot the reaction of to these situations was always exceptional to be 100% honest and that's what you have to understand what you have to learn that that mean this club means more to the people than just football so that you you have to understand and that's why what we do is more important than it maybe is somewhere where else that that's the responsibility responsibility we always took and understood 100% our boy the players understood to play for Liverpool is not just a club where you play during your career it's the club and it's something you will definitely remember for life so that we try we try to make sure that the boys understood if we give our absolute everything now we meet in 10 15 years look back and we I think it was the best we could have done. The absolute best we could have done. I think that's how you the my view on life is as well. All the other stuff is just sorting the problem in front of you. >> Mhm. >> There's something we have to sort. But when you saw you think about what's the effect for for for the rest and that's what some people some clubs maybe don't want to see because the pressure is too big just to make sure okay tomorrow at least they will not write we have no clue tomorrow at least they will say they found a solution and then we can think about um the next day or whatever. How does how does someone I don't know how someone succeed succeeds you because you have such a big aura. Are you aware that you have a big aura? >> Don't know if anybody has the awareness of that. I heard about it but I doesn't that don't know what it means 100% to be honest but I see it with other people. >> An energy when you you arrive it's the passion. It's the ability to talk. It's the ability to inspire people. it is, you know, has an impact on the rival team you're playing because they go clocks here and big personality, big
charisma. So, Anie Slaugh coming in after you, he's he doesn't appear to be as have the same size of an aura. And I I don't know. I just think big big shoes to fill in terms of your aura. >> I have to go to the toilet. >> I bet you do. >> Oh, really? >> Okay. Okay. Okay, that's good. >> Big shoes. Big shoes. I would not want to fill such shoes. A couple of things. First and foremost, I uh I thought I have to say what I had to say when I when I um announced my exit, if you want, my retirement, whatever you want to call it, at the time. And people judge that wrong moment blah blah blah whatever you cannot change that it was fine the feeling was I have to say that then we have to finish the season as good as somehow possible in idle world you win something we couldn't do that for whatever reason and then you have to make sure because that's still something you have to do you have to try to make it as easy as somehow possible for the guy who's coming after you what I tried as well because I wanted them all to do do incredibly well. And also if somebody is not doing it that way, you it's a first the first hint you can get that maybe he wants the next guy not to do it well. Every shouting, oh my god, he did that, he did that, he did that. And I don't need that. I want Liverpool to do well. I want Liverpool to win. But they did. So what I liked a lot about Arnold that Arnold didn't hesitate. But you said, "No, I don't want to go in these shoes." A didn't have that problem. He thought, "Okay, that's a that's a great club. That's a great team." And he's right. It was a fantastic It's a fantastic club and it's a fantastic team. And he stepped into that. We had a lot of contact after that. He was super It's a super super good guy. Um, my god, what a team. Wow. Thanks a lot. Blah blah blah. All these kind of things. And yeah and he made the best he got the best out of this team and they they became champion in incredible manner to be honest. So and I'm really really happy about that. So that's all that's all you you is it it all about it shows again it's all about how you see it. You
can see you step into my footsteps how you called it. >> Mhm. >> Or you take over a fantastic football team. It was a brilliant I mean my my best friend's a Liverpool fan and he said before you left actually he said this is the best squad Liverpool have ever had. >> Yeah. >> Um Anie has inherited that squad which is considered to be the best squad by many people that Liverpool have ever had. >> And in that first year didn't really change much. There wasn't really there wasn't any big signings coming. I actually heard from one of the the players in Liverpool that them say to a really good friend of mine that the best thing Arie had done was actually in that first year don't change much don't come in and try and radically change things and >> that's what Anna slot would say himself probably I think he said it that's super smart so it's not about what Anna wants to show the world what he can do it's about how to get the best out of this team and that's exactly what he did not changing much means he changed a little bit we became third a year before So there's not a lot you have to change, but a few decisive things you have to change and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. So that's what it is. Not that he has to put his new own stamp. This team was was was good in in a lot of ways, but we didn't win the year before. So and that's what he what his what his um job was. And he did that in an incredible impressive manner. So and that's all you want. And you need people who have the confidence to do these kind of things because um doesn't make sense if you have a a manager who is not 100% sure about the things he wants to do and I want us to play like this or if that's not possible I want to play like this or I want to but we maybe completely different that doesn't work. Being a football manager is already a challenge with all the different things you have to do. Being a football manager in in in such a competitive league like a Premier League is a real challenge. Being a football manager in the world we are living in with media, social media and all these kind of things. It's an incredible challenge.
Believe me, you you have no clue what's coming up the next day. You think, "Oh my god, where's that coming from? Who was that? Oh, my player. You read a story, whatever, and all of a sudden you think, oh, from a problem, it turns into your problem and a and a wing. So, sort that and all the rest as well. So, you need this kind of I love that about Arnet that he came in and and took over and he knew he got a good team. Yes, it was. Um, and did a perfect job. I mean in terms of making changes this year you Liverpool have spent what 450 odd million which is a crazy number. I mean the bro I think he broken the transfer record in various positions several times with warts and um with ESAC now as well. So change has arrived. These are these are new people coming in with their their own ideologies from their previous clubs. They've all arrived at once. A lot of new faces at once. Is this not now where the challenge begins? because this is this is going to become Anie's team now. >> Yeah, but that's not a problem. That's just completely normal. That doesn't mean exactly that there was a lot of change. I mean, no team in the by the way, it's 450 or whatever million. I don't know the exact numbers, but they they earned a lot of money as well. Um, and change always has an impact and change always needs time and don't but people talk then about yeah, but this if no let's start like that. He keeps this exactly same team like us. Yes, Darin Yun is still there. Luis Diaz is still there as an example. So they start playing but they have problems. Say yeah change and we needed change. So now they're not there anymore. The new guys are there and they are good really really good players. It's not working out. Yeah, why why it's not working? Because development needs time then nobody can change that and people need to find uh need to adapt to situation need adapt to things and that all these kind of things. So it's all it's all good. It's all in place. What you have at Liverpool this year has to be in the competition in the decisive moments and then they have to be ready to go for it. There's no guarantee that you then will win it again. That doesn't happen just like this. You cannot be champion, spend money and be champion
again. The other teams don't sleep. That's how it is. And to become champion, you need luck in moments here and there. That's how it is. Nobody wants to hear that. crossbar over the line, not over the line, all these kind of things. It can go in your direction or in the other direction. So, it's all fine. And we discuss the situation now like it's a h they struggle. Surprise. Yeah. We we take we take the money and throw it against them. 450 million. Yeah. But they earned 200 odd million as well. So it's all fine if you're with Liverpool and only these people are really that's the only only people who matter if you are with Liverpool. Yeah, you trust them and they do the right they did the right stuff. They do the right things. So work on it and become the best football team this team can be. >> You never had a transfer window like that where you spent that much money and >> No, we built we built three stands and and a training ground. >> Yeah, exactly. And and I remember the press conference I think when you were referring to City's ability to spend money. >> I had no clue that this is possible. >> Nobody nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can that we can spend like that my last year Liverpool. So we obviously so the Adidas deal the new stadium all these kind of things. Yeah they earn more money but it was never no never ever I I could have asked for the amount of money but that's not a problem that time it was not there. No problem at all. really not. And I love the fact that we were as successful as we were and build new stands and build a training ground because we talk now about a transfer window in the way you want to talk about it, spend a lot of money. Um, but there's no discussion about the stance and no discussion about the training ground. They are second to none. The training ground, the stands are wonderful. So, and and at the same place where Enfield is, they could build pretty much a new stadium without leaving the old one. So, that's a fantastic story and that will stay forever. Maybe at one point they decide the cop could be even for more people or
whatever. I don't know if that ever will happen, but you could do stuff there. And that's what I love about this. And I think I really want as much as I can. And it's not my first target because I have to win football games with my team, but I want that a club benefits from the time we were together after we left. I want that. >> This might be quite a naive observation, but in the time when you were at Liverpool, my assessment of Liverpool was you never you didn't necessarily have the world's most famous starting 11 team, but you could beat anybody. Mhm. >> So, you know, when you brought in Milner, who was at City before, and when you brought in these other players, I would see I'd be like, why why are they signing him? He's not. But then when they'd play for Liverpool, they would be unbelievable players, and you could be anybody. So, there was almost this culture at Liverpool, which which I observed, where you didn't necessarily go for Galactico players. You weren't trying to get Ronaldo or Messi. You were going for sort of these players that had character and and a culture fit. And ultimately that meant that you know you at times it looked like you were playing with 12 men. And so this new this transfer window that I've just observed where you you have gone for the very very best names the you know some of the best players on planet earth that were number one choices for Real Madrid and the biggest clubs on earth. I almost don't recognize Liverpool it moving like that in a window. >> Yeah. There's part of me that I'm like, well, hopefully that this is their Falca Di Maria moment, Ronaldo moment where they where they bought big players but they didn't think of culture. I'm praying. >> Yeah, you wish. I wish >> that's the difference. Your wish is incredible striker. Incredible striker. Floss you all will eat your words if you have the wrong use the wrong words or is an incredible talent. Incredible player. Um yeah, just offensive players. It's a really really really good well you squat. If the young center half is not getting injured, it's a perfect squad. Now he's injured. That doesn't help. Then you
might be a majority on the center half position. Besides that, it's a perfect squad. Two super left backs, really super right back. So it's it's just a really good football. That's how you set a team up. And now you have to deal with the situation. They all think they have to start the game but that's the normal job. It's not that difficult or that's the normal job. You have this discussion who will start a week or two in a then third week one is injured and you are happy that the other can start. So that's that's the the world a football manager is living in. So we have we don't have to to worry about what's that the I'm really interested. So you don't have to worry about Liverpool. They will be fine. This was the just the net spend graph of the different clubs um while you were while you were there. And it's quite clear that you um you weren't spending the same as your rivals during your time. And a lot of the fans in the media speculated that the owners, the Fenway Sports Group, just weren't giving you the money, but you were still getting the results, which is pretty >> No, no, no. So, yeah. What's the What's the public perception that I didn't ask for the money? That's probably not right. I we had these conversations but I didn't ask in a way if you don't get it we can do it. It's not my job to think about how much we can squeeze out of whatever area. I was I I felt massively respond my my my idea was always with the the boys we have become the best team you can be and you're right when you said um we were maybe not the best team I think there was a period when we played football you could have thought that's maybe the best played by the best team I don't know exactly between 18 and 20 there was a pretty long spell um but We always and it was the idea. We always were able to beat the best team. And that was the idea because that's a constant thing. The next best, the next best, we can beat you, we can beat you, be the best, you know, you are the one everybody wants to beat. I love that. So that's net spend and stuff like this. I was never too worried about. We had all these conversations. Yeah. I I was I was happy
with how it was. I couldn't have discussions with people. No, I cannot decide how much money we spend. It's not just not possible and slot cannot decide how much money Liverpool spend. That's how it is. You do there are other people who decide that and if you have the money then you spend for really good players what Liverpool did this year. And I think it was it was the right thing to do. And I'm pretty sure one specific moment changed the whole transfer window. Yeah. That was the the saddest day of of last year. Um, and how do you how do you replace somebody like Joo? It's not about the player itself. It's about the the the guy he was. It was he was good with absolutely everybody. Absolutely everybody. his he arrived he had no real it was I think he was a bit surprised that we approached him that we asked for him then he came and then we he delivered from day one I remember still when I saw him the first time playing for wolves he saidoo what's that when I went to the you always hear these stories when people tell me and it's it's true that Malah they had to convince me and stuff like this not convinced that I take him but it was like there were other players as well and Mo was one of the others and then we we decided all together for Mo but fine but this nobody came to me and told me come on let's have a look at at yoga I saw him and I said please give me more material I have to see him and that's and he he he he excelled all the expectations as as a guy super smart super super teammate and now he sits in a dressing room and I I cannot imagine right now the dressing room without him being there that's as so hard it's so hard I still cannot speak properly about it it's it's really like that. It was an incredible shock and that's for the boys as well and and I don't we could think we don't speak about it because otherwise some bad journalists make a story of it what I said about him and how it what it means. Nobody at Liverpool will ever use it as an excuse but it is the situation you walk every day in this room where he was omniresent. He was can you imagine he to to to talk about Timmy he he was so close with ch with
James Milner they are not the same age group they're nothing the same it's just he was so but on the other side very close with cost simas that's like mount and moon and Mars so that's that was him and dealing with that as a per on a personal level not easy impossible and now as a club take all the the emotional stuff out and think How do we replace him? And you have to think about that. Wow, that's difficult. Impossible, I would say. And now we charge a transfer window where they buy the players. There was not the plan. I'm pretty sure the two that he had to get to um replaced. >> Do you remember where you were when you heard the news? >> Yeah. I got a message in the morning. Boss, I have bad news. And then I got and I got a message from a from a friend from Liverpool and and I I I couldn't believe it. I I just it was not possible. I heard it and I know what it means but I couldn't believe it. the whole story. I saw all the pictures obviously from the wedding and all the boys were there and and stuff like that and it was so was only before that and um I know exactly where I was. I was I was exactly how long I sat there without speaking a word. So it it is it is it is a family member. is exactly like that. So look, it's it's it's really like that. You have it's it's an example for the things you have to deal with without knowing at all. You cannot be prepared to deal with things like that. And today we we talk about the the transfer window in the name if you want of Liverpool that would have looked completely different. Yeah. So you have to sort the things you did never expected that you have to think about. Everybody wanted this boy to play the next 10 years at Liverpool. Allound player, all positions can play football smart. On July the 3rd, 2025, Diego was killed in a car crash alongside his brother in Spain. Um I think re just just before then he had got married to his partner and he had several beautiful children. He he said of you he said the first time you and him met he just felt your
presence. He said I think that's one of his main characteristics the way you can you can just feel him only with his presence. And Diego went on to be incredibly successful under your leadership at Liverpool. >> Yeah that's true. Yeah. same. I could say the same. I could say the same about him. I was as impressed with his presence. Very, very special. Very special young man, I have to say. >> How much of a role do does a manager like you play in the transfer window? This is something that's always speculated by the fans. >> Do you remember the first when I came and told me about a transfer committee? I never had they they told me that the journalist asked me yeah because they implemented a transfer committee because they didn't want to have the man that the manager is that decisive in a transfer window. Obviously before me there was some issues. >> Yeah. >> So no problem with that. I can discuss with everyone as long as no player signs for the club I don't want. I'm used to not getting all the players I want. That's completely normal. It's not up to the coaches. We say we need want that player and I say yeah it's too expensive. They can ask again, sorry, can we make it happen? Um, and knowing they all try through everything to get the right price and get the player in. You cannot do anything with that that anybody in a club would bring in a player. You don't you don't agree on that. That's that that's not possible. But it's very very normal in the football code manager life that you don't get all the players you want. So no problem with that. As long as the transfer window is open, you try to create build the best possible squad. On the day after the transfer window, you have the best possible squad, whichever transfers you made, and that's the way you go into the rest of the season. Michael Edwards left during your tenure. He was sort of one of the key people that that was responsible for looking for players and and signing them, and he's back now. So first and foremost before I don't want to say anything else because I
really have a really good relationship my is absolutely great in what he's doing. Um but it was not on one day his job alone to bring in players. There were a lot of other Julian board Ian Graham um so many people they were involved in in in Barry Hunter all these kind of things were involved in these kind of things. It was a process. We were really we were really close together. It's not one sitting there and being the genius and having producing ideas and you think oh my god >> he's available I didn't even know him he's so like we know we know football players it's like negotiating finding the right moment to sell finding the right moment to buy that's a sporting director's job what he was before and now is I don't even know exactly the role >> something in a holding company doing across the board So Richard Hughes is now there doing an incredible job. Um so these kind of things it's it's it's really all in idle world. So like people from outside are idolizing sometimes people like that definitely some of them with me and they do with Michael but Michael never did a job alone. I never did a job alone. Um it was always like a a really good Yeah. They worked together just really well. We didn't have a lot of disagreements where you think bof where is that coming from? Why you want him? It's a process and football team is an open book. Everybody can read it every day. So if you want to add something it should not be a surprise to everybody and think huh where's that idea coming from? You think we need a left back. Why? We have already four. That doesn't happen. you are it's a work on progress all the time during a season but the transfer windows it clash obviously and English people in professional football enjoy the day a bit more than probably in other countries um so that's what I didn't get that to a full extent but um I learned um a lot about the excitement of a good transfer window >> did you always get on with them >> yeah I I would say 100% and Michael definitely and Richard, I don't know. We spoke quite a few times after um after I left. Um so I like him. So and I think they did an inc they did an incredible job honestly >> cuz you became bigger than the coach.
You you became such a huge I mean you still are such a huge figure in the in the city. I mean my my assistant who's been with me, my PA has been with me for 10 years. She's from Liverpool and she I'm probably going to embarrass her now, but you're like the king to her. Not even in Liverpool. You're the king globally because we did that. So if I was if I was a Michael Edwards or someone else at the club and I was trying to that you have you had ultimate power kind of like Sir Alex Ferguson he became you know he was everything. He is the st he's on the stadium. He is the club. So I I I always wondered how anyone would be able to overturn your opinion or argue with you when you are the city. You're like you're the great Jurgen Klo. But that's the outside world. Come on. I'm not I'm not an idiot. I don't I don't sit there and I always said I need other people to understand things. It's like I my own opin opinion. I know already. I know the morning I get up I know my opinion. So come on. How can you get a better view on it on things? That's how it is. It's just by discussing with people. Yes. The final decision I have to make and I have no problem with that. But for that I need all people being really involved. And if you want to have an argument, have an argument. In the end, I will make the decisions. Absolutely no problem. Did we have argument? Maybe yes. I don't remember them. But it's not important because it's just in the end. It's it's about the outcome. It's about what is best for the club. And I never had a problem with that. I never thought they all have to please me. So I realized how famous I am after I left Liverpool. >> So I have no clue. I was never in Liverpool out there on on the bus. It's normal that the people cheer because we there everybody is they cheer for everybody. So I realized how good I was as a coach since I'm not in the job anymore. So because I thought what I can do everybody can do. I realized maybe not. So it's it's 100% the truth because in the job you just do try to sort every day the things in front of you. That's what you try. >> Can I ask you about Nunes? He he didn't seem very happy on your last your last day. >> Darwin
>> Darwin. >> Yeah. We had an absolutely good relationship as good as can be with a striker is not scoring as often as he wants as the people want and as I think he could have and with a striker who didn't play as often as definitely he wants. So how can you have a fantastic relationship is would it be if he would would I don't I didn't see that picture. I heard about it. If he would have stand there and be the number one and jumping after me, crying his eyes out and and and hugging me for 10 minutes, I was okay. What's going on here? It's completely normal situation. I cannot My first concern cannot be to please everybody. It's just not possible. It's not possible in that job. You have easy the first problem starts with 25 players, 11 starting positions. So sorry more players are not happy than you make happy. That's that's already where it starts the problem. So now you have to get through this. And I'm pretty sure he had super moments at Liverpool. We had super moments together. And in my last day, if I would have been him, I would have thought as well, okay, come on, the next one is a new chance for me because players do that. If if it's if it goes really well for them, it's not that they think to the coach. If it's not going well, they think it's okay. He doesn't bring me often enough. It's not my fault. Blah blah blah. All this kind of we are humans. We are all the same. Though it's not that they are special in that moment. And some of them think, yeah, I have to do more. I have to do more for the week one, week two, week three. And I think now I did three weeks more. It's still not pick is not picking me. So it's this it's it's a bit you cannot have always harmony and and and flowers and all these kind of things. It's a competitive environment and you need to perform to get what you think you deserve. >> When did you decide did you decide that you wanted to sign Darwin? How was that? How did that decision? >> You decide exactly like before we decided it all to all together involved in that in that process and yes that's how it is nowadays. We would have loved to sign him for lesser money of course but it was in that moment not possible. We need a striker. We only wanted to have an an extra like an extra option
for striker like we had Bobby always the best false nine in the world. Yeah. And know we needed somebody with a bit more speed and stuff like this. We need the actions more and and Sio even sure if Sio was still there. Probably not. So >> Sio went that year. >> Yeah, I think so went that year. So we had to we had to change as well. So Luis Diaz is great. Cody Gakpo great. What kind of player we don't have? I thought Cody can play a little bit like Bobby, good football on the side, but feels much better on the on the on the wing. All these kind of things. So, yeah, of course, we all signed him together. No problem to to to admit that it maybe didn't work out as good as it could, but without Darin, so many things wouldn't have happened. The biggest comeback of all times at Newcastle, for example. Oh, I love that day. I love that game. We came on. Yeah. >> Just give me 15 seconds to explain how you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't have a perfect plan. They just take the first step and then the next and then they keep going. They stay obsessed and they stay consistent. And Standtore, a platform I co-own and one of our sponsors is the best first step to help turn your knowledge into income. It only takes a couple of minutes to launch your business and start selling digital products, coaching, memberships, or communities online without any tech headaches or endless setup. Thousands of entrepreneurs, creators, and risktakers use Stan to take control of their future. Because Stan is for entrepreneurs, for those willing to put in the work and bet on themselves. If you're ready to start building, join us. Launch your business today with a free 14-day trial at stephvenbartlet.stan.store. We launched these conversation cards and they sold out. And we launched them again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the
world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the depth. one being a starter question. And level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question that builds even more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real time. So, if you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go to the diary.com or look at the link in the description below. Why did you leave? Why did you leave Liverpool? I I watched your videos announcing your departure so many times and I was almost trying to read between the lines. >> Oh, >> I was trying to read between the lines. >> Tell me what you read. >> No, I was just, you know, cuz you talk about just the energy, not having the energy for it. That's kind of how I was interpreting you. You know, you you sat down with your board. Your board talked about plans for next year and you realized in that moment that >> you didn't have the energy to rebuild and go again, etc. >> No, no, not to rebuild that. We didn't have to rebuild. I I know that the team is a good team. John, my expectation of myself is I'm I I'm I'm the energy giver to everybody in in this environment. Like that's what I what my if somebody struggle, come on, you can have my don't need it. Let's go. I have to be on top of absolute top of my game to be the guy who deserves to be the Liverpool manager. And that's what I said when I said day when I feel huh I know that anymore then I don't so that I say okay let's wait until everybody sees it and then they can give me the sec and la all these kind of things I cannot do it like that not after the time we had together I realized I don't want to be that after all the time we had together I want I don't want to be the guy I don't want to go on tour to USA but why because was I loved it all every day so it's then you realize I need a break, whatever. I need to have something else. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, "Ladies and gentlemen, give me a year. See you later." >> And it's just not like that. And I
really think we we we did what we had to do to to to say what we felt and thought in that moment. And was exactly like that. I didn't have the energy to think about what's what's next. I didn't want to think about what's next. I just wanted to to go. I was happy with finishing the season. But then don't ask me what can we do here, what can we do there, what can it was all my responsibility for all the time because yes I don't decide money but all the rest it was in my hands from a specific moment on. COVID kicked in. No sporting director Michael came after I after I left. It was not there anymore and not it was not because we had a problem or whatever. Not at all. Um it was just they wanted to find a leader for the for the pack and founded with Michael and and and Richard and Anna obviously now working really close together. So that what was the was the decision but there was a time there was no Richard, no Michael, no Julian Ward. So there was just me sitting there um like on top of all the the things and we had to win football games but all the rest was on my plate as well. It was an intense time. >> There wasn't a structure around you in that regard. >> Co changed a lot. I mean, people didn't fly as much anymore. Um, the owners didn't come that often over. It was like budget calls were on the phone. Uh, more or less. We brought in Jük, the Germans for because we didn't have a sporting director at that time. In fact, Julian came back, but then um I don't even know exactly why why he left again. So the these kind of things that just happened and the only guys who were always there were we the coaches and the football team. So they were just the normal stuff over a day. So who was doing the sporting director stuff? >> Yeah us and together with in that one in that one window with I think it was with the German guy we brought over. I don't even know if Julian Ward was still there the lawyers the scouts. So, um, >> do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again? Is that within the realm of possibilities? >> I said I will never coach another team, a different team in in England. So, that means if then it's Liverpool. Yeah. So, yeah, theoretically it's possible.
>> What would it take theoretically for you to want to do that psychologically? >> I don't I don't even know exactly. I just there must be I I love what I do right now. I don't miss coaching. I don't I mean I do coach but just different not not players. So and I don't miss it. I don't miss standing in the rain two and a half, three hours. Um, and and I don't miss going to press conference four times, three times a week, having 12, 10, 12 interviews a week. I don't miss that. I don't. So I don't miss being in the dressing room like in a sense of that I didn't have it often other I coach 180 something games so I was in a dress room very very often and I don't want to die in a dressing room just because so nice it smells so it's it's it's these kind of things so but there might be something I'm 58 that's from your perspective old from other perspective from the other side it's not that old that means I could make the decision in a few years. I don't know. Do I have to make the decision today? I will not coach again. But thank God I don't have to do that. I can just see what future brings. But now I'm involved in a project I really love and I love the people I'm working together with and the clubs we are responsible for and the countries the clubs are in. So I like doing what I'm doing right now. And in my mind, only if I'm focused 100% on it, I can do it really good. And that's what I always wanted to do to do. >> Those are the things you don't miss. What do you miss? >> Some sometimes people. So yeah, sometimes I miss people. like I I I I wish I so that's I don't miss a dressing room as a dressing room but sitting there in the restaurant with the players and having a nice chat that it's nice it was always nice when they were just in a good mood. We won a lot of games and so like there was often a very good mood in in the building and standing there hearing them laugh I I still have virtual laugh in my ear for example. Yes. this kind this part of the of the job it is obviously but that's for these players which I had the last time it's now um do I miss it in general with football players not
right now it's not like that but I there is there's really not a lot to be honest what I miss because I'm still in the business I I I know most about so the football part I don't miss because I have it and the The thing is like don't have to be outside. I'm not the guy in the chair before a game and stuff like this. No, I I honestly that's that's probably the best. I don't miss anything. That's how it is. >> When I look at your career, minds of Dortmund, Liverpool, you seem to always be successful and it's it's extremely rare. It's extremely rare and you seem to always succeed with a lot of passion and all those things. But my question is I think about the audience we have which are often business people, leaders, CEOs. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that is central to your idea of getting the best out of a group of people? We talked about being a sort of bespoke leader, being the jigsaw piece you need to be to get the best out of a person. We talked about giving everything. Is there anything else that's really central to your philosophy of leadership and management that you think is important that we haven't touched upon yet that young coaches might be able to create the best team possible. And I mean in an understandable team like really there's there must be a reason why this team wins and not the other team because there are other teams out there. They try absolutely everything. So don't waste time with walking next to each other, not knowing anything about each other, not being bothered about the problems of each other, not being interested about each other. No, no, no. I want to grow together. And it was my job to help them to grow to create situation where they could do that to make sure and if I had to be harsh to all of them that they found a way to get together. I did that. It was not what I said. It was what they needed to understand why we are a very special team in a very hard and difficult competition. But we have to find a reason why we deserve it more than others. Yes. That's what I what I say what you have to do and that's what I people want to convince today with knowledge they want to say I know everything about that look I can
tell you I can explain it to you sir but it's in the end that's one thing and other people can know as well it's about how close can we really grow together to go out there and smash the whatever out of them so that's the that's the the the thing what what what I wanted to what I always did so it was always for us we would walk I don't know we would go through fire I'm not sure if you say that any but we really would do absolutely everything and without me telling every day to find it so to find a way to grow as much together that was obvious >> how do I get people to walk through fire so you're talking about making sure the bonds amongst themselves are strong I heard stories of you making sure everybody knew everybody's name when you first arrived and things like that >> not players it was staff >> the staff names etc What were you doing to get people to walk through fire? >> And that's exactly that's exact that's a good question. There's no answer for the question because it means that would mean you say you say one thing and well everybody runs. That's not like that. You have to create a culture an an environment a situation uh a wbee where everybody realize this is special. The underlining message is this is special and now let's go for it. This is worth it. This it means really more to all of us that we really can fight more for it. >> What is special? >> The togetherness. The way we we had we we the way we and that people can say that's in our club the same but the way we interacted in the training ground with the kitchen stuff with with the respect we we showed every day with the kidmen with the gardeners with all the people there there. That was for me most important because it just you just realize that's the the respect you show is the respect you get. You can show respect you don't deserve any. So that's how it is and you don't have it's not a lesson in the sense of that I tell you wait sit here. You have to respect the gardener and then the other people will respect you as well. It's a you don't do it like that. It's just you learn that show respect you get respect. Don't show respect you don't deserve it. So all these little things over there, there's not a big thing. It's not that every day
I go for them and tell them why is this different, why is that different. The way you deal with situations, we found a way for us that the most important information about the game was what I said and not was in the media, not was in social media. When I said it was good, it was good. There was still all the things out there were written but that were not important anymore. When I said it was not good, then could they write? Yeah, but you won 3 and0 and then we found a way to talk about it and and worked on it. We created our own world in that time which was more important than the outside world. >> How is not being respectful to the gardener going to lose you the Champions League? What is the the through line? >> I believe just in if you cannot do that, if you don't appreciate what thing what what other people do, then you cannot appreciate what your teammate is doing. If you don't that's just a little sign. It's not that of course there's not direct impact from here to there, but in the end I'm pretty sure if you would really have a a brief look at it in one or two situations like >> oh he doesn't look like a proper fella and then you go back to to the to the beginning would say yeah because he isn't. I can tell you >> I'm fascinated by this point because when I was um when I was at Old Trafford and the ladies who served the food in the l in the boxes and lounges when I would ask them what was different after Fergie left the thing they kept saying to me was oh it's just so different around here and I'd say explain to me how they go I don't know just he Ferguson just knew our names. Yeah, >> that's what they would say. And it's a strange thing to hear that the only symptom that some of the staff in the stadium could point at was just the new leadership don't know our names. >> Yeah, but this is obviously not the answer to the Man United problems. That's just the situation with the the ladies or whoever working in that in that area. But it shows if that doesn't then you don't know theoretically the names. What it shows is the togetherness is not there anymore. It starts already with a sex was just different and then you y but not on day one
>> but after 23 years of course he was different of course he knew your name he saw you growing up so how can you compare that >> this was under Edward just for the context this wasn't under any am this was before then a couple of years ago >> and I just always found that to for me that as a business leader became a really interesting reference point because it as you said it's just a downstream symptom of something where the club has gone from feeling like a family and special and you know close and tight and these values to the decay of the values and it's and all the way down to the the stream at the bottom >> but this is this is a generation discussion isn't it like in the past again I'm not that old that I say in the past everything was better for sure not but we are differently raised that's how it is I came home I walked home in a 1,200 00 people village. I had a 400 meter walk from the bus station to my home. I walked home. Obviously, a lady crossed my way. I didn't can remember it. I arrived at home after 200 m more meters. And then my mom said, "Why you didn't say hello to Mrs. and so uh what?" So that does does that help me in life? I'm not sure. It's just how you get it's just how you get raised. I didn't run back and say sorry hello but next time believe me it leaded so in my life where everybody a lot of people recognize me so difficult not to say hello to people because of that but I start obviously getting attention if I can't get through something and I would say hello that doesn't work properly for me anymore but it's still in me one thing is the things we read the other thing is the things we feel the other thing is is the how we get treated we all are the result of a lot of things what happened to us and as long as we are together let's make sure that we influence each other as positive as somehow possible and let's see where it leads us to that's the idea I have >> a lot of managers or leaders or CEOs would focus on tactics and strategy first and foremost and as you say the information and all those things but it appears that you focus somewhere else >> not first same time it's not first it's not same time it's it's same time I 24 hours a day, 2 hours time for training.
There's not a lot more you can do. Maybe you have another in the preseason definitely more another session 2 hours 4 hours 20 hours left 7 8 hours sleep 12 more hours. Welcome. What can we do with that? That's become the best group we can be. So that's I'm 100% interested in. Definitely >> the best group we can be. >> Yeah. >> That's those relationships, those values. >> Yeah. And were there any particular changes you made to how the team interacted with each other? I know that um the Inos guys told me at Manchester like they've changed the like canteen so that people don't sit on separate tables now and the team are together when they eat. Just small things like this that some people might think are inconsequential. Are there any things that you changed? Any rules or policies? >> I don't like these obvious things too much. If you don't like each other and the size of the table makes no difference to be honest. I don't say that's not important. I don't I don't see them the real effect. I I want to reach it in a different way. I want to to introduce them to each other in a specific way on the pitch. By the way, that's where it starts because we are football team. we are not a community and just sit there and drink tea and and eat biscuits. It's a it's a real competitive environment and it's all to get the best out of the boys on the football pitch. So, rules, pitch, rules, dressing room, but then there's so many things left and right of the rules. There's so many things you can do together. There's so much to talk about, so much to know about. And that's what life is. Otherwise, we just live next to each other and we don't benefit from each other. That makes no sense. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but my general understanding from football team is to become the best football team you can be. This is the this is as important as tactics. As important as tactics. They can have the best tactics and the guys don't respect, don't like each other, nobody will see them ever. Ever. So, if the worst tactics, but they love each other, boy, they still can win.
That's possible. Isle world great team good coach you have a good chance to be successful >> I have I have two pictures that we haven't shown yet but this this particular picture is of Elizabeth >> mama >> your mama >> yeah 2011 we became champion with Dortmund my home club as gladen invited me build a stage my elder sister wrote a poem. My mom couldn't have been prouder. Obviously, uh that day I saw my teammates from my first football team. They were all there. Nobody would have thought that somebody from there would arrive where I was there. Yeah, great day. Lisbet was a really really nice woman, I have to say. She she passed away in 2021 um after falling ill because of everything that was going on at the time with the pandemic. You weren't able to attend her funeral because of the travel restrictions and all those kinds of things. She did get to see your your success. She got to see that's a big difference. So I was not in a funeral and that was the the sounds crazy. The online funeral was one of the saddest things I I experienced in my life. Uh, but they made it happen. At least that was good that we could see it, that we could be part of it. We couldn't be there. My mom had in the end had dementia. So, it's not that she would have known that I was not there when she was lying there. She was that that's a not a nice thing, but she saw the maturity of my working life if you want. My dad didn't see my coaching life. So that's is the there's no nothing is perfect. But mom was was super happy was a very happy lady until she could remember us and see us and um recognize us and the time when he could when she couldn't do that anymore. Yeah. Was not too long. But that's a can't wait for the day when somebody finds a solution for these kind of things uh for these kind of diseases and um because in your age obviously don't think about it but if you come older they think who dies today just of a
heart attack and not by having already dementia or or stuff like this and don't recognize the kids anymore and stuff like this. You don't want that. You just can't get through this by ignoring the fact and hoping that science will find a way until we get there. >> Yeah. >> She she started to lose her her memories of her family because of dementia. >> Yeah. So like the normal things on phone she didn't know recognize my voice first. said that this is a this is a strange strange disease or whatever how you will call it. It closed so many doors and opens others. It's a long time memory. Incredible. She recognized ladies in the street. They were together in primary school stuff like this but didn't know who we were. So just these kind of things. It's not it's not a competition of things you you forget or whatever. There are a lot of things you forget and especially for the people and that was my sisters who took care of her obviously that's not nice if she don't recognize you who are you go away these things how is that to deal how is that to deal with as a family member when someone you love a parent can no longer recognize who you are you it's almost like a it sounds like a grief heartbreak >> yeah I think obviously my my sisters were around um so For them was harder of course because they were around. For me it was not a problem at all because I knew she loved me more than our own life. In a moment she can recognize me anymore that it was not a problem for me. I just felt for her that is that is really that it's really so that's so hard. Must be so hard. If you have bright moments where oh I know oh my god you are here but what are you doing here? and then going again. It's it's really it's really not nice and I I I I really sincerely hope that we find um yeah medication for that. I think science is in a yeah in a good way but still a a long way to go but thanks for this picture. I don't I have it on my phone somewhere but I don't have it as a yeah thank you very much. >> Faith is a big part of your life as well. >> Yeah. >> Your belief in God. >> Yeah.
And from what I understood, that's not always been the case. When you were a younger man, you weren't religious in the same way that you are now. Is that accurate or >> I won't even say I'm religious. I I believe >> but I don't but I don't know 100% what religious means to be 100% honest. But it's um this lady, my mom um prayed every night before going to bed. But problem one thing we prayed the other thing she said because she couldn't be hard with me. She could she just had no weapons. the only thing she could say, "Don't forget if you do that again, I will have to tell the dad at the weekend when he's coming back." So, it was like the only threat she had, the only weapon she she carried around. Um, and I obviously was smart enough to realize that whatever I did, she never told my dad. Um, um, from time that I went to church, I had a a short spell where I thought because Sunday morning church was when I played games. I have to go to church. I'm not I cannot play football anymore. But that lasted exactly one game. So one Sunday they thought God cannot be that hard. He cannot think that I have to go to church when I love football so much. It cannot that's it cannot be like that. Um and he isn't I'm pretty sure. So um yeah I found my way. For me it's for me it's to live together. We have to make sure that we that we don't think the only thing what is interesting is my own well-being. We have to make sure that we really understand being alone in a good position doesn't help. Yes, it's completely normal that we all try to get as far as we can in our career, in our life and all these kind of things. But it's really important that we make sure that we that we really try to to work properly together, to live properly together and all these kind of things. For me, this is my faith. It's based on my this this understanding is based on my faith. So and and common sense obviously and that's the way I believe and um I think that's the best thing you can say about religion when it's like that that it keeps people in a good place. If religion can't do that then that's not the right religion for me. So it's really about that we
have to be tolerant. We have to. It's no problem. It's a wonderful planet. It's a wonderful world we are living in. But it's not for one or two. It's for all of us. And we have to make sure that that works out. And I think the right faith can help you with that. But I don't I don't know what is the right way. I only know what is for me. So yeah, for me it's the right thing to do. And I never doubted it to be honest with all the information you get over in life. God is real for me and um and Jesus of course. Um yeah. >> What goals have you got left to accomplish, Jurgen? What what's what is left on your list, if anything at all? Because you've got You're right. You're probably halfway through your life, the way things are going in terms of people, the life expectancy increasing. >> Halfway through 116. We have the next podcast. Yeah. >> I want to travel. That's what we're doing. Start now. I want to be together with Ola as much as we can. But not not that much that she or I don't want to be around each other anymore because I really think you see people and think what is your husband doing? Oh, he's at home. Oh god. So no no no I'm not that but I'm very busy. So I'm I'm a lot away. So that's fine. But I want to spend with her with the kids with the grandkids. I don't have this kind of ambitions. I want to do really well for Red Bull. Really well. I I I feel already responsible for all the people I work together with. That's a very interesting thing for me. I feel so quick, really responsible, but I do so I want to do it as good as we can have the best time possible. Let's see what happens then. But on a private basis, I can tell you with all the things happening around, stay healthy and enjoy this part of life because you know now most things happened and most things were really good. There was another time um your age when you are not sure where you want to go where where can what's possible how safe you will be um and all these kind of things where will you live in the future so I know where we will live I know how things worked out that's really good I'm not that old that I cannot move so move and try and do sports and travel and all these kind of things so I I'm more than happy with the things how they
how they panned out, how they happened. I'm really really happy. I'm surprised how my career was. I I never thought that. And you cannot plan it and and stuff like this. I'm super happy with my private life, how it is. Super happy with the Mrs. Super happy with the kids, super happy with the grandkids. It's all really good. So, what can you want more really without sounding ridiculous that you think, "Oh, you still want that." and the rest is job. And the job I'd always wanted to do as somehow possible and that's still the case. >> Is he a Man United fan? >> Why? >> I don't know. If you ever want a job at a football club, Manchester United would uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. After all the time we spent together. Yeah. You want to tell me that? >> Yeah. No, but you know it's um it's really it's really interesting to me because I think there's always an assumption that people want to continue to I don't I don't understand that do the same you because that's what you are good at. I know I'm good as a manager. I know so why should I I don't have to prove that not even to me I have to prove that I can raise my hand and tomorrow I can coach club X Y and Zed clubs who are happy now with sector manager and I don't want that. So, so but to be my best friend that might come back that I say okay I'm ready that might I don't know today but in this moment it's not that I cannot do what I do while thinking with one leg being still there I was never like that I never looked right or left when I was at mines I could have changed the club every year for the first seven it was so obvious that something is going on there pretty special that clubs want oh we want to have him and I never thought a second that I want to go there. I wanted to stay at mines to to to do what we do and to learn what I thought I have to learn. Same at Dortmund, same at Liverpool until I thought it's not right. If that comes again, let's see what we can what we will do. That's what the decision I wanted. I want didn't want to make the job until I barely can move. I barely can travel. I barely Mrs. Can you help me? I don't want I didn't want to do that. Yeah, we're sitting and yes, I'm 25 years older than you, but we
both could probably run around the corner now and it would not be the biggest difference. >> You're in great shape. >> Yeah, that's because I train. That's how it is. But I never did while I was a manager. That's the next thing. I just grew more and more and more and now uh we have time for that as well. No, it's good how it is. Well, you um even as a United fan, you you brought so much to the Premier League that it was it was weirdly sad also very happy when you decided that you were going to leave. I mean, I I felt two feelings at the same time. I felt very very happy that this was this Liverpool era in my view was over because I thought there's no way >> you leaving. You're more than just a manager. You're the spirit of this city. You're the spirit of the fan base. You're actually sort of personify the Liverpool fan base in my mind. extremely passionate allin togetherness and as you know your former I think he was your chairman or owner of mine said you did you brought you brought the team together you then brought the city together and that had a profound impact both on Liverpool but also on the Premier League and on my enjoyment and my misery as a rival fan and that's a really really remarkable thing. You've also inspired me as a lot on a personal level as a leader just about you know everything you said there about how important it is to focus equally on the people and the team and the togetherness and not just on the tactics and the strategy and how passion can be and a wonderful accelerant for performance and for feeling like this is special and that's something that I think you've personified as a leader. We um we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. >> Oh. >> And the question >> Oh, it's for me, not a message. >> Yes. >> Oh, >> question that's been left for you. As you look back on your career, is there a particular moment, a particular conversation, a particular day that if you could you would go back and
change or say something you wish you had said? I honestly the problem is I would probably would say no. I don't I wouldn't go back and and and try to change it because it wouldn't have a big impact. the situations we had, the big situations I could influence with the things I said, the specific moments which were then decisive. You just stand there and watch Aguero in or not in we the same problem with United where things the ball goes in or the ball is over the line for 11 million or not. That has nothing to do with what I say. Would I wish if I could go there and give it a little push? Yes. Would I wish James Madison would block the shot of Vincent Kane that he cannot score the goal against Leicester? Yes. But it had nothing to do with what I said. And so the things I said I said in the moment for the right reasons. Um, and sometimes they had the impact I wished and wanted and sometimes not. >> Yeah, I had to accept that. >> That was the other thing that um Jamie Carrager asked. He said, "Oh, when you see when you see ask him how he feels about his former assistant manager, Pep Lingers going and working >> going and working at Manchester City." >> Absolutely. No problem. I like it. I I like both Peps. That's how it is. No problem uh with that. Um I worked together with Pep Blinders. He was an inspiration for me every day when we worked together. Absolutely every day. I learned a lot from him. And Pep Guardiola I couldn't respect a manager more. Um and when they asked me like a bit what do you think can we? Of course you can. Pepinos I said come on find a guy who worked together with Pep Liners Pep Gardula and Jurgen club. I would read the book. Uh, and yeah, and Pep knew exactly Pep um Gardula knew exactly what he was looking for. Yeah, he wanted to, you know, want exactly this kind of um spark fire from and Pep has that. Pep is Pep Lions has that. He is an extreme well of of energy and um so I'm happy for them both. >> We're playing you guys. Um this week, this weekend on Sunday. >> What? >> United. >> Manchester United Liverpool this Sunday. You didn't know.
>> It's at Anfield. It's a Premier League, Dar. >> That's crazy that you don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But hopefully after So this will come out just after that. So I'm hoping that's four losses. >> Oh, we come after that. >> When when do we get >> hopefully the day after, but we'll see. Um so hopefully this is your fourth Liverpool's fourth loss in a row. And uh the fan base are growing increasingly impatient and they're annoyed and Amarim has now won another another game in a row. So this is this conversation will come out straight after. >> Wow. >> Now we playing at Anfield. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. >> They have to strike back. Yeah. You know that's never a good situation. >> Yeah. >> You know that two days ago. So I just in the morning I wake up pretty early in the morning. So I I I throw on YouTube and have a look and then it shows me behind the scenes footage from the 7. >> The 7? Oh gosh. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I never saw that. I never saw it but it's like the 7. Obviously I know the goals and stuff but it's the camera different. It's in the stands and it's really good. So okay fine. I watch it 19 minutes really good. So all the goals again and you see players in the dressing room all the way to the dress room. Really good. The next day I I open and because I you know how it is with the algorithm now I see the 5-nil at at Manchester. So and I watch that and today I come here and had no clue that you are Manchester United fan. So I I was really well prepared for that talk I have to say without knowing. Yeah. >> Damn. Yeah. Thank you so much Jagen. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being an inspiration to me, but also thank you for all that you brought to the Northwest and to Liverpool. >> Sure. Thanks. Welcome. It was my pleasure. >> Honestly, thank you so much. And I I' I've learned so much from you as a leader and also as a man. And in the leadup to this, I spoke to so many people around you that have worked with you. I contacted Jordan Henderson. I
spoke to um Carrager, who knows you through various people. I think he managed him for one game, he said. >> Yeah. Yeah. In Australia. >> In the Australia game. And they all said the same thing. They all said that you're the same man on and off the camera. You're a person that brings people together. you're extremely likable, but you have high standards and are an incredibly passionate person. And that the the narrative was consistently here is the same man on and off camera. Um, which is a credit to yourself and no wonder why people were willing to walk through fire with you. >> Yeah. >> Um, it's it's incredible what you've accomplished and I hope selfishly as a football fan, I hope we we see you back in the game at some point. >> Maybe Real Madrid or Manchester United, you know, whatever. >> You never know. You never know. >> Thank you so much. Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]