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the jogan experience and most people are just not that sophisticated when it comes to these things if they're betting using an app or something like that betting online they're just doing it for fun they think they could win they got a feeling they want to bet their team they want to make the game more exciting and so those people are basically like very under they're very under research they're very they don't have like the full grasp of understanding of the complexities of Sports gambling cuz it's a lot more complex than I ever thought when I was going over your stuff I was like oh my goodness like this involves so much time so much time and read this is not a simple thing as like oh I follow Sports I think Kansas City's going to win it's it's not it's complicated very very complicated and to win at a level that you won at over your career and the the numbers like what is the biggest bet you ever placed I bet $4 half million dollars on New Orleans to uh to beat the Indianapolis Colts in the Super Bowl uh that's the biggest bet I replaced did you win I I I did I won it I got lucky and I won it you got lucky on that one well yeah I mean anytime you win I mean I feel like I'm lucky I mean it Joe the the world's made up of a lot of different kind of people as we both know and uh the uh but no I feel like anytime I went a B I got lucky I mean because there's you know uh know I want to bet and and and the reason I had such a big bet is what I do Joe I'm I make a line on the game myself my prediction of what I feel like the differential should be independent of what the EXP completely independent I okay I don't even look at her line when I make my line really no that's that's high level well that's all they that's all I'm doing the same thing they're doing right I mean believe me the the principles that I'm following and making my line are the same principles that the handicapper is making but it's Jo is kind of like making a cake you know one guy might put a little bit more flour in than the other guy does and so that's how we end up with different you know lines different numbers so I make a line on each and every outcome of of the sport sports that I'm involved and you betting this on the individual players their
overall career what age they are how they've been playing this season who the coaches all the different factors whether or not there's in inplayer disputes in between player like there's a lot of things to take into consideration again I put it all in the book and and you're right there's a lot of different factors that go into that uh some more important others but there's a lot of factors and uh and then what happens is the larger the differential between the number they make and my opinion the larger bet I make there has to be a minimum of a certain amount of of separation or I won't make a bet but the larger the differen is between my opinion and their opin opinion the larger bet I'm make so I'll just give you a rough example let's say the NFL and let's say let's say I would have to have a minimum of say a point and a half differential from the line they make from the line I I make point and half two points well that would I would make I would bet one unit okay that would be the smallest bet I would make but for each Half Point you would I so if if I made the line on a game six and they had it eight I would bet one unit if they made it 8 and A2 I would bet two units if they made it nine I would bet three units if they made it 9 and a half I would bet four units they made it 10 I would be five units well the New Orleans game you asked me about which I couldn't believe was a Super Bowl game and this type of year we never get this kind of differential uh but I had like a seven-point differential between the line I made and the line they made they made Indianapolis seven and I thought the game should be pick them and when I saw the last I couldn't believe it I went back I said well maybe haven't made a mistake here went back redid it redid it and I pick them so that's how I ended up with such a large bet when you go through something like how much time are we talking like if you're placing a $4 million bet on a Super Bowl game how much time are you researching well but but that time of the year I mean all of our research is done I mean it's this last game here okay the only changes you're going to make from the last games that these two teams played or in the Super Bowl is
okay are the any players injured that didn't you you which you have to account for and uh you know clearly if they're playing on a different surface or something maybe than you know than the teams normally do it's very small I mean the second the game's over uh we can have the line on the next game within 6 hours it's not a problem or less I mean unless involves you know some injury or something that you know may take us until we get some more clarity on that but I'm going to know real close to where I'm at frankly as soon as the game's over almost within an hour or two now there's been some times over the years where referees specifically in basketball games have been caught doing things you know calling penalties trying to swing the game in favor of another team and they get caught for it and busted how much do you think that goes on today like how how much do you think like referees are bought off or maybe perhaps they're betting themselves I don't think that exists at all Joel really and if it does it's very very small but it has been right think have happened in the past and but but but but you know who uncovered each and every one of those gamblers people betting Sports and and bookmakers they're the ones that made law enforcement aware of these things uh because at the end of the day whether you're a casino or whether you're better the Integrity of sports is the most important thing in the world to you a good thing about what's going on today there's probably uh more transparency and betting today than there ever has been all all of the legalized gamblings taking place they have everyone's account information they know everything you're doing and the other thing about betting on sports Joe unlike say Wall Street it is a small Market much much smaller Market than Wall Street so if you go out and you make a sizeable bed in sports uh the line's going to move and uh it's it's impossible to hide it okay now there's people such as myself and I'm not the only one there's a lot of people in the sports business if they see a line on the game move a half a point a point or whatever they know who caused that line to move 99% of the time okay I give you an example the Arizona State situation that came up years ago I don't if you remember that one or not it
was their basketball team and they were fixing games and then what happened um there was a bunch of guys that came to Las Vegas and uh they bet on one of these games the line moved six or seven points I bet on the other side of it because you know uh the line I make and of course I had no idea that you know they were shaving points and I lost the bet well they came back to town a little bit later and they brought six seven guys and they were going to all the different sports books so they were betting and the line moov six or seven points again game line on games don't move six or seven points points well the second time I didn't bet uh because and sure enough they won a game by like 20 again they came back the third time and but now I'm taping the games I'm looking at the games they came back the third time and they did the same thing well uh I called uh uh Steve dearm who was the head of game and control uh for the game and control board he was the the law enforcement part of game and control and told him what was going on and uh they dispatched some agents they tried to get these people to talk to them they left Las Vegas went back to Arizona and then later on I think one of them got kind of caught up in a drug deal and uh then it came out they were fixing games and there were a couple players that were intentionally throwing off and uh they were fixing games and that's how that Scandal came out you know I guess so it was exposed by gamblers Oh by gamblers and and how did you know that something how did you know it wasn't just luck well I mean Joe look this would be like tracking an elf in the snow I mean you got you got guys who no one's ever laid eyes on and they come to to Las Vegas and they bet they bet on a game and they move at six or seven points you know if you're a handicapper you know anything at all about betting Sports if the line moves you know uh it it's and you're laying a second to third point what you know you you better you better have a really strong opinion because they mve this line for one reason uh it it's it's it's to make it a lot less appealing to the person betting on on that team so when somebody comes to town and they move a line six or seven points no better in the world is going to do that and in order to do that they they went to every sports book in
town and they just you know they laid you know 6 6 and 1/2 7 7 and 1/2 8 8 and 1/2 9 9 and 1/2 10 okay okay well because they were new to betting okay they knew they had they had an edge because of what they were doing but they didn't know anything about betting as a result you know they created something that was easy for anyone to see I saw it again the first time I didn't know you know the exact uh uh you know I didn't know exactly who was doing it and I I I bet on the other side of course I lost my money and of course I came back the second time I've seen these things before and I didn't bet and then of course you know we taped the game we looked at it it was pretty easy to see who was doing what they were doing they came back the third time did the same thing frankly you know to give you I mean these guys were trying to break in jails what they were trying to do anybody I mean they were anybody would do what they were doing was just stupid I mean anyone could see what they were doing the only thing surprised me it it took three games for someone to finally turn them in and I don't Sports books I don't think ever turned them in I mean I called the sh myself because again any thing that involves Integrity of sports they're affecting my business if people get to where they don't trust betting on sports then the limits are going to go down and it's going to reduce my ability to be able to bet on Sports uh you the other one you know with a referee the the NFL referee gamblers knew about that eight months before he got busted by law enforcement people quit betting on the games really well sure I mean it wasn't like they just suspected that the call no well no what H anytime again Ino because the Market's so small okay think about the the New York Stock Exchange or or think about Apple stock you could buy $500 million with Apple stock and and the price on Apple stock would would barely move okay on on a NF NFL on an NBA basketball game if you were to bet $250,000 on an NFL basketball game it would probably move a point and a half two points so and again the people taking the bat people such as myself and others if a line moves on a game and it moves like that and okay I want to do better on that game if it's another handicapper
or there's an injury out or there's something there that makes sense as to why that game moved then okay I understand it but if there's some mysterious person that's bet a lot of money on a game that hasn't been doing this for a period of time and then I looking at an outcome of a game that doesn't make sense uh if I tape it and and I see you know something that's out of the ordinary about the way the gamees being officiated or some players performance it this is this stuff is easy Joe to see and you're not dealing with exactly you're not dealing here with Master criminals you're dealing with people that frankly aren't very smart and number very smart to be doing what they're doing and the way they go about it they're even you know about you know I if you remember the thing years ago with hot rod Williams I mean there's the ones what was that thing well it was it was an NBA thing also but all the ones if you go back and you look at the last five sports deals whatever they were small or big every one of them were uncovered like that and uh so you know I did a I did a pro I did an interview on time on 60 Minutes in 2011 and I was asked at the end of the interview which I had the most confidence in betting on sports uh or investing uh in stocks and my answer was I have a lot more confidence in betting on sports uh for the reason I pointed out uh it's it's a much smaller Market but as far as as far as things being on the up and up I have a lot more confidence than that and I way more confidence in that than I do the other well obviously you know it well well and not only know it well but also if I didn't know it well I I know how small the market is I know how transparent the market maret is and and if someone goes if someone goes in to try to bet on Sports and you're trying to fix a game it's going to be so obvious it's so easy to detect and it's so easy to and today it's even easier and the good thing about legalized sports betting is it's so transparent everybody who has an account you know you take all of these young players that haven't you know they haven't been uh uh I'll call it school correctly they haven't been they haven't you know whether it be their teams or or whomever they haven't explained to them you know the repercussions about betting on
sports if they're a professional athlete you we've had some here recently that you know basically these guys are kids Joe they're kids they don't know any better and and someone should have sat down with them and explained to them the ramifications of what they were doing maybe they did maybe they didn't but the one we've had a few of them out there now but you know you've seen how quick they catch them because it's all transparent they go in and make these bets it doesn't take them any time at all to figure out who they are if they're a football player or whatever they're doing and it's been brought to the Public's attention so you know if if it's that easy to catch them somebody out there making large bets on something moving the line substantially uh and you don't know who this person is and you're looking at and they do this more than one time or two times and you're seeing an outcome of a game that doesn't make sense it ain't going to take long to figure this out