Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmLOoloH3E
just getting tired being tough was the purpose of fighting if I will end up not being able to fight for the only person that I can fight [Applause] for heavyweight champion of the world I was 13 years that I decided that I was going to be a professional fighter but I have no money we don't have shoes we don't have food there's not a gym I have to do something for that dream so I left Cameron you need to get to Spain I was reading that people died oh a lot and you were drinking water that had dead animals we had no choice I attempt in the ocean I fell six times at trying to climb the fence but B while it was the toughest part why didn't you give up when your dream is so big it's hard to give up and the day that we arrive in Paris I can start that dream to become a war Champion heavy in the world you left the UFC because a disagreement with Dana White what's the truth easy he didn't want to and then you f an Joshua honestly on that fight there was in lot of unfairness what do you mean they have a lot of tricks do you think they were doing that intentionally yeah it was so messy and then life shows how cruel it's capable of being when my boy pass away now was a moment that I really feel like a failure have you been able to [Music] grieve the DI overa raffle is about to close anyone that subscribes to the D before we hit 7 million subscribers which is probably going to be in a couple of days time you will be included in the raffle and on the day we hit 7 million subscribers we are giving away a lot of money can't buy prizes to all of you so hit the Subscribe button get in before 7 million and I'll announce the prizes and the winners in the comments below when we hit 7 million subscribers Francis we met in a hotel room in Paris MH it was me you tiar omry and chy and several other people and um I knew you from TV I'd watched you fight but I had no idea about your story and it's funny cuz we all went around one at a time tierry me um and then you and shared our early story and when we came to your story I just couldn't believe it was true I couldn't believe it was true really of of course I'd never heard and I sit here
and interview people for a living I've never in my life heard a story like that from where you started to where you ultimately ended up and I know you've told it before to some people but I have to start there because because it I think it creates the context of everything that you are today and the man that sits in front of me so if you take me back to West Cameroon in 1986 yeah what would I see what was your childhood like um I think you will see two parents that are just struggling um making it a dad who was a carpenter and then a mom that really didn't have job and then at some point she she was doing whatever she find whether it's like selling uh cook some stuff and sell in the in the trade so that's that was it in back then back in 1986 the average person lives on $1,500 a year in West Cameron that's what I read oh that's a lot oh really $1,500 a year that's a lot of money how much money were your family living on a year a year oh definitely less than that less than thousand for sure and you're in a village of about 11,000 people yeah I mean yeah maybe back then I think now we are over is over 20 or 20,000 people or 30,000 people now I found some pictures take a look at these pictures what are these different pictures can you describe them to me what they are oh yeah those uh this is me and my mom in our kitchen um yeah this was uh when I won the UFC title uh and then I I said it there on purpose like you know I've been sitting in this kitchen since when I was a kid so dreaming about boxing and everything so I got to go out there from this kitchen go out there get that belt of a world champion and bring it back and set it in that same kitchen and sit in the same spot that I used to sit then I'm like at the end of the day not only everything is possible it's not such a big deal you know for anyone that can't see this cuz they're listening on audio it with all due respect it it looks like there's the floor is mud and the walls are mud and brick yeah so looks like a m yes that's that's how we build house because it's the less cost you want because you make like a m to make to make bricks with it's not
like a brick with sand and C it's just a m so that's some it's like a mud hut yeah and you're sat you're sat there on the floor with with your mother no on the floor on the chair on the I mean I wouldn't call that a chair but it's a piece of wood is a chair piece of wood which is a chair you can sit in the piece of wood comfortable was this was this a happy childhood no um absolutely not but for some reason um I think regardless of everything I owe who I am today to my childhood you know um as much as I hate my childhood my childhood I was so mad so upset about it since we didn't have the minimum the minimum necessity like even like brush uh toothbrush stuff like that you know book to go to school even like a uh petrol to put in the lamp and learn we didn't have some time sometime like you see the fire there right on the picture the fire where we are cooking on the wood sometime you're going to take your book there and read it like this like so this is just a fire you've made with a bunch of wood and some rocks and you would go and read by the that fire so you could see your book yeah we cook uh they put some food on top of a uh the the bricks or the stone there to cook and then meanwhile you're using the fire the flame to to light up and read your book sometime what made your childhood so unhappy though what was it other than the the difficulty the challenge of everything uh as I say like we miss everything uh most of the time we a lot of time we will be walking bare food because we don't have shoes uh or we will be like uh fixing shoes in 10 in Thousand Ways you know to still have a shoes our pants will be having holes all over uh and we will still trying to do we will go to school be embarrassed because uh maybe sometime we don't have a pen or pencil or notebook or Haven pay scholar fee and they're going to um kick us out from the classroom so all that stuff was embarrassing not to mention like when come a break time you don't have something to eat uh unlik your um peers the other kids you know you just around on your own so it was a lot of thing everything uh was a challenge and that's why like when sometime I'm like you people that are being very comfortable never being in the struggle I'm like oh
money doesn't make happiness money blah blah blah I'm like give me the money and then keep the happiness because I have been without money and I know what it feels like all day long I prefer being with money you really describing the comparison that causes the unhappiness between yourself your family who you guys were and the other kids yes absolutely I mean how many time do I get sick and didn't have a peer couldn't even go to the hospital we couldn't even have a PE from around uh the street a pill yeah and then you're just home sick like this hoping having some prayers maybe luckily sometime go in the bush and find some um REM uh to cook and hopefully that he works but you can't afford what were you eating during that time when you didn't have the money Farm um corns beans peanut uh stuff like that yum uh casava um veggies stuff like that is there a moment you look back on your childhood and think that was the worst Moment For Me growing up just a memory or something that happened that you thought this was really the the bottom for me I would not say the bottom I mean regardless of everything I think um I was lucky and uh I think I was gifted to be able to handle that that a proper way you know uh when I look at it today I'm impressed of the way that I handle it and uh even without knowing where that would lead me where I was going with that I just handled it like find a way out but I never like feel like in a bottom you know in fact like one of my biggest motivation came out of that situation like uh I was around 13 years old and he was someday around 300 p.m. they kick me out of the classroom one more time and I think that day I was pissed I was very pissed like almost crying like okay what the hell is this like what do I do to to deserve this like why is this so unfair you know uh and then the look of the other kids on me and didn't stand that either you know then therefore I uh it was now a challenge I promised myself that I going to change that I going to prove them it's not my fault I was just a child just as them uh which doesn't have the same opportunity as them just we couldn't have a parent that can provide for them but in fact the minimum that I
had wish wasn't enough was um something that I work for I earned I know the value of it and even though you have more they have more than me they didn't earn it you know they they they give it to them but they didn't earn it I started I started to work in the s San Quarry I was uh 9 years old so which was a sand mine yeah sand mine and what you doing you're you're using a shovel to pick up sand and pick sand or di dick sand in on the mountain um so I mean I know that I get to realize that even though I have less I work for those less and I work hard for those that and even though they have more they don't really know the value of what they have so in fact I'm not beneath them in fact I'm quite Superior why were you kicked out of the classroom that day uh when you were 13 he was I think he was uh scholarship that that exact same day I think was scholarship uh the fee The Scholar fee oh okay so you kicked out of school because you didn't have the money yeah because I haven't paid the annual fee I haven't complete the annual fee and uh yes that day he was it but you know he was the same thing over on over this year next year the year after and uh that day I think it was a signal and I'm like this is going to change and um but the problem now um I was was in the situation that I needed to do more than others to to be noticed you know I was I wanted to prove them that that's no the the perception that they have on of on of me is not who I am I'm better than that and uh yeah so I was 13 years and that's the day that I decided that I was going to be a professional fighter a professional boxer it was the day that I really decided growing up I want like karate I want this I want that but I get to the point that I want something that not only will be my passion but at the same time will provide for me and help me to provide for my family as well and then I come across like okay boxing combat sport is the thing to do but problem I'm 13 years old there's not um there is not a gym in um 50 Kil 50 miles uh radius and uh I haven't I never see a gym you know I never saw a gym before then and even after that time I think I stayed in the village until I was 22 was the moment that I'm like okay enough is enough I can just be dreaming I have to take action I have to do something for
that dream then I leave the village I I moved to the city I mov to some place that I don't know and then just like sell everything that I have to start boxing and I was 22 at that time I've heard you say as well about your father my whole life my father was the example for me of what not to do yeah I think that's the best thing that ever happened to me because if my dad wasn't what he was I could have been what he was but I still love him a lot yeah because again like from my perspective um he is the person that affected my life the most he was violent and then I happened but he wasn't capable of uh canalyzing his energy his strength or no how to use it then maybe if they have a argument or something usually at time people was fighting a lot but he was Stronger so he basically end up beating other people so makes the them the victim and him the guilty right so and then he has a reputation because when you get into so many fight uh in the in the hood and you and you're winning any fight so you're just a bad guy you know so it has that reputation uh from people don't really like his behavior and then uh that's something that I understand really quick and then who have affected me I didn't want to have that reputation although I like everything uh that related with power I was very into it but I'm like no no way they are talking to me about my dad basically like the divorced I was 6 years old so I started go live with my ants and this and everywhere they would be like yes you just yeah he's doing like his father he's must be like his father stuff like that and he pisses me off like so bad like I don't want to be have that reputation even though I like everything with strin power fighting you know then that's how like I ended up find those boxing combat sport stuff he was the right thing to do because there was a rules there was a rules he was organized and everything was right to do and he wouldn't affect your reputation when you get into a boxing mat match or character fight you win you're a winner they celebrate you they don't blame you from beating somebody he was a violent man outside of the home but also inside the
home yeah little bit to you and your mother we will get some we will get some Spain I mean in Africa uh at that time that's kind of uh thing was happening a lot into a lot of fames so he wasn't something nowadays things a little different but he wasn't something that was very different you know just so he was kind of like strict straight guy yeah was he violent towards your mother uh sometimes sometime it could happen he passed away when you were 15 years old yeah it did how how did that impact you at 15 when he passed away uh you know no he wasn't um he wasn't a big part of my life at that at time um but yeah you get affect you think about like your dad and the fact that you will never see him again you know time to time for months you think I am like man so this is it and yeah he affected you a lot I mean you're hurt but you just have to keep rolling when he passed away he couldn't afford to go to the hospital yeah he was sick he was at home for months sick uh just stay in bed uh couldn't even go out to the toilet on his own anything he has one leg that was get uh rotten and was just there like that until he Di and that was something that I look at it I'm like man I think I need to do something something I need to take action because this kind of thing might happen uh again in the future or in my to my mom or to somebody close and I won't be I will be powerless and uh no doesn't have to be like this you know so that was one of the reason like just being sick be at home on to die maybe we could have saved him if we have money maybe he could have still be alive if he could have go to the hospital but nobody knows and nobody will ever know a couple of years after I was looking at my mom and I asked myself if she ever got sick what would I do and it scared the hell out of me at that point I knew I had to do something to at least be able to provide her some decent healthare I always wonder what it would be like if my dad was still alive today I wish I can have him in my life today even just for a day yeah well
uh after my d uh passed away and then I think that was also a shock of our situation I realized I mean I was 15 by the time I know that our situation wasn't good we W living in a good condition but that was like a eye opening like okay this how bad it is he didn't go to the hospital for months I was going there time to time and he was suffering in pain and everything it didn't go to the hospital and uh even when he passed away I could have I keept having nightmares of seeing him like in pain screaming at night stuff like that and I'm like this not happening again bro like he was tough right so uh um now that was not only like I was thinking that uh when I grow up I have a family and I want to provide them uh provide to them and then get them in a good situation in a better condition but that was like okay this something that can happen again what would you do it could be yes it could be your mom it could be one of your siblings or it could some day be your own kid what will you do like just sit there and no I need to do something so that's I I took actions you know and then uh yeah in the other hands seeing where we were when my dad passed away I always wonder like what would it be like if he was around if he could turn around and see us what would he say like how would he feel I mean he always uh and I miss those moment that I I replicate uh our family a lot you know growing up we never have to eat in the dining table like this we didn't have a dining table um but uh for the past year I've been replicating that like I will have we have nice house with table dining tables and sometime I will get there and then regroup everybody in the table and then even though I don't speak I look at that table and know that somebody is missing there's one person missing you know who could have be the to to to make that a perfect T you know even though it's quite uh enjoyful to be with those who are there it's still like a blessing to have them um but it's still sad not to have one person there you start dreaming at that very young age you start dreaming of a different life and I was reading that you were pretty obsessed with America you were signing your signature
San Francisco not like obsessed I love America I always love America like since I I uh I name myself American boy I name I give myself a nickname of American Boy when you were young yeah like kids around will call will call me American boy because I tell them that's my name and at 17 you said that you left that small town is it called Betty betti yes the village that's the V that you left and you um you moved to a different town mhm you went to Cameron's largest city where you started boxing City yes Dua why did you leave he wasn't at 17 at 17 I left uh I abandoned school because I couldn't continue ah okay so you left school at 22 okay so 22 you decided you wanted to move City yeah had you ever been to a gym before before when was the first age you went to a gym uh a boxing gym yeah kind of 22 22 yeah when I left the village to go find one um why did you end up leaving Cameroon and what age was it when you left Cameroon I left Cameroon I was around um I was 26 around 26 when I left Cameron why did you leave well I knew that I couldn't make it there uh as a boxer because I started boxing and I know that reality there I know the truth even before I started boxing I I knew the reality I knew that uh it can happen there you know I need a big stage I need somewhere that um there's more boxing is well developed uh where did you want to go first he was always America but uh from Cameron there wasn't a way to come to America I wasn't going to swim to the uh Atlantic Ocean so the easiest way the more Payway was to go to Europe so April the 3D you're 25 26 years old um 2012 which doesn't feel like it was that long ago 2012 is when I left it was 2012 yeah that's when I left that's when I left my secondary school and at that time you leaving Cameroon yes and you're objective was you were going to try and get to to Spain or get to Europe yes so you were going to walk from Cameroon to Europe uh it wasn't work I mean from camaron uh I was in Dua I took a bus to Y then I took a train to the train to North camon and then we took like a we started take like a um um how do they call CL l no no no small car that you know they know how to avoid police uh uh station
and all those stuff on the road so that's how we get from Cameron North Cameroon to Yola in Nigeria and then Yola to Cano and then Cano Niger and so you traveled from Cameroon to Nigeria to n to Algeria to Morocco to Morocco yeah and then how did you get through the Sahara Desert uh he were we we were lucky uh our group didn't have so much of a trouble um even though it was 25 of us in the back of a pickup truck yeah but uh we made it the truck didn't broke up uh we get it out there safe people died going oh a lot like uh all the way you will see like sket around skeletons skelet is in the desert and just look other way other way like no You' see skeletons and look away yeah how how do you afford where does the money come from to get go on this journey to get out of Cameroon and to try and get to Europe cuz it must cost money yeah from the beginning um the beginning is not so hard uh because it's something that you prepare for for years you don't just wake up one day and go like this you prepare for you don't know how much you need but you know that the much that you can have you you can use it to go you know so I have some savings that I've been saving saving for a little while I took some with me and I give gave some to my little sister to keep it ready in case I call because I didn't know where I was going and then we have heard that there's a lot of smugger Smuggler uh on the way so you better don't carry what all your money on your on you so as much as you're going you're going to call and then they will send money uh until it's over and then you start to figure out on your own what is the you say it so casually but what is the reality of that of that Journey you know I was reading that you were drinking at times drinking water that had dead dead animals inside the water yeah when we first crossed the desert uh we get to South Algeria um in a tamaras set we found a water well and it was almost dry and there was a little water that was there for I think for months there was death animal and all the uh leaves everything was inside the water but um we were so dehydrated because our water in finished in the desert like hours ago so at time the water didn't look good at
all it was pretty bad but I think the philosophy right here was like okay whether I drink the water and if he has to kill me he kill me later or I just die now by dehydration I think when that's the only two Choice it's easy to choose one die now or die a little [Laughter] later what does all of this this experience do to you as a man in terms of your your resilience and attitude towards life you probably don't even know because you just are the way that you are but you must see that you're different from other people in the Western World I think in general in Africa we are quite different uh to um the Western World um we we have more not that in the Western World people don't have hardship but we have mostly most of us we have hardship and toughest one for the most part you know um like because in the Western World you will not see it's it's not very often that you will see kid that that have experiment uh famine you know like uh going to to sleep without eating or something I think the S the is the West is more designed to stay away of those kind of trouble you might not have home but you can still have something to eat but in Africa um most people they will not even have that and then um the good thing and I think the different that I found so far is that in Africa you know from your early age that you are not counting on not body you are not expecting anything from anybody it's all on you and as long as you get that the rest of your life get better because you go out there and figure it out but you go in a lot of Western Country and then even though coming from where you come from uh you see that there's a lot of opportunity and people are still there sitting complaining we don't have this this should be like that it should be like that you'll be like man this is like more than all what I need you know because you at the point that you don't need you don't just need what can be given to you what will be given to you is just a way is uh a what could be given to you is just a way for you to uh a preach to help you get where you're going because you have set um your goal
Way Beyond what you you can get you how long does it take you to get across the Sahara Desert across the Sahara Desert itself it took uh one day we didn't stay our uh again we were lucky our car didn't broke up so they drove for about I think 20 or 22 hours and eventually you get to Morocco and Morocco from Morocco you need to get to Spain which is difficult that was the toughest part I spent almost one year in Morocco trying to get to Spain yeah trying to get to Spain I did a lot of attempt uh in the in the water and also in the in the fences when you were living in Morocco where were you staying wherever you find in the desert uh in the forest uh it depend on like what you're looking for you you know for example if you want to go to the fence try the fence to escalate the fence um which is in Mia for the most part then you have to stay in the forest of gurugu it's like living in the forest between trees you know and then you HT what are you eating what you eating everything that you find sometime uh there are people that can make trap and try uh get some animals but uh for the most part we will wait nighttime to go to the market uh because the police is always around you know the on the cover police we will wait for the night for night time go to the market go to the market trash and then find like rot rotten stuff like that they throw away whether it's tomato potatoes um chicken legs because they didn't eat chicken legs was the best in for us so we will find stuff like that in the trash and go back in the forest and try to make a meal how we don't have money were you try at that time were you trying to figure out learn how to get to Europe were you trying to learn the best way because I can't imagine or did someone tell you how to get to Europe there's a lot of people there that is trying to do the same thing it's not just you you left your house by yourself but by the time you get to some point you start meet people that are in the same journey and by the time you get in Morocco there's a lot hundreds of people are you training at the time are you trying to stay fit yeah sometime in the forest I mean you have nothing to do you do pushup you do some apps but otherwise what would you
do and you were still dreaming of being a boxer even though you were oh yes that was that was the thing I mean that was my motivation I think if he wasn't about that I wouldn't have left my country he was just about that I did I never thought about anything else so that was the reason where I left how did you how did you know you'd be good at it I didn't know but he was about to find out I didn't know at all I had no idea I I could have be very bad I could have be good so he was just about to give it a try and if it doesn't work then at least a try you know I think is the is the most important thing is to try and give it all and if it doesn't work then well we reset you there's two ways to get to Spain you can go over the wall or you can go across the water through the sea yeah and across the water could be very dangerous dangerous and difficult sometime I try couple times did you try the wo yeah the bobbed Wire yeah I Tred the Bob I have a lot of scar on me a lot of Bob wire scar on me really like those are BB wies those you see my finger spit my finger into like on my skin you will find on my stomach here on my feet I F I try I have a lot of that uh um I try to I attempt in the ocean like uh six I fell six time what happens when you you try and go over the bbwi fence is it did they catch you um where the the spot that we picked because it's about like 12 or 14 miles of fence with B wire so we will have like a Outlook guy that will go walk around all the those uh fence and then like trying to identify a spot that there is not too much bab wire or that the bab wire has fell you know uh and when there's not a lot guard because there's guard on the Moroccan side and there's guard on the spin side and some way there's like three fences and then bab Wi on like maybe the first one or the two there's not a chance that unless you can fly you cannot go there and it's like 7 m High 7 m High 7 m high so it's it's not possible with bab wies without bab wies yeah that's good but and then they clean the surrounded of the uh of fences so the guy have to stay like far from the distance to trying to identify
if there's a failure of bwire somewhere you know so it's very difficult and uh on there's a police a Moroccan on the Moroccan side there's like a boxes of um uh God mhm in like interval I don't know maybe 20 M every 20 M there's a God 20 30 m there's a boxes of God sometimes some boxes can be empty but from where we are you don't see need somebody to go there like a Weg every time read everything monitor the um um uh all the information you know like the the post the the guard how theyve been um the schedule yeah how they been changed because it's permanent but one person doesn't stay there 24 hours I think it's like 8 hours so you you have when you spotted a spot that there's not so much bab then you'll be like okay there's a Outlook very far there there's a Outlook from the spin side very far and then these boxes is there guard inside he might take him days to just find if find out if those boxes have God someday is going to go by and then like wait they can stay in the same spot for like 2 days just to wait and then when the truck come uh comes to uh change uh ship for the gods to change for the god to shange shift and then he will see which box have the God and which box does a have and then what time they come and this what time they go if they pray what time they go to pray and he he you need all those information before prepare a attack and you prep eventually you prepared an attack for the fence yeah and sometime you prepare the attack you see all those you collect all those information then as you are getting closer to the fence you realize that there was a b wire you couldn't just see from where you were at MH you know or that maybe there's someone that is in the floor they dig like 5 m long like this wide and then they throw B wires all the way then you you ran you ran by uh maybe 30 m or 100 100 m m they can see you coming they know that you're coming now you are taking advantage on like because you in a group of a people and then you get closer and then you find like 5 m back wire you can jump 5 m it's not possible you know so so what you do you run back what you run back or some by the time you run back uh if it's a group of you some people will fall in the bow because they didn't see or maybe you in the front line you see but you can't go back because there are people a
mass behind you coming they just push and then you fall inside the back wire did you ever try and climb the fence and did you get caught yeah I try to climb a fence uh I get out of those B wires on the floor once the only and that was the time that I fell in the B wire I trying to climb the fence but the bab on the fence was painful big like I was trying to hold it and he was just catching my face like like oh okay I see like so and um I get to the point that I'm like you know I rather be aive without being in Europe uh instead of being dead in Europe like wait it's going to be another time it's not possible so you eventually decide that you want to go via the see in a boat you're going to try and take a small little dingy yeah that was that was um I mean even before I tried the B wire the first thing that I tried it was a boat and why did that not work I mean it's not like the boat is a small inflatable boat that you can use in your swimming pool stuff that they use in the swimming pool we call it dinghy you can put it in the swimming pool you get it in Walmart in Walmart yeah yeah exactly so that's a you tried to cross from Morocco to Spain in one of these small inflatable boats um you couldn't swim no I don't know how to swim but guess what I ended up being a captain captain of the what of the boat because he's still need a captain he still need somebody to organize somebody that knows how to pattern somebody know where we are going somebody know how to organize like for 10 people to get in the same boat from uh going from the ground to the ocean and then like how do they they get all those organization and then I I practice I did it so many time that I become I became an expert so you and I still don't know how to swim you tried six times to get across mhm what happened in those six times uh sometime we get caught the majority of time we get caught and what does that what happens if you get caught they send you back to the desert they send you back to the desert yeah to the desert uh not to Morocco no you are in Morocco you get caught by the Morocco guard yeah but then they just
bring you back to the city or something no because um they have been financed to protect uh people from a b they have been financed uh by European union or something like that from holding you guys down there so every time that the uh cash somebody they make a report of that person uh that okay we C somebody and then we send them back out of Morocco they will just bring you to the to Algeria Border in the desert and throw you gu there and you will figure out your way so they throw you back in the desert without food every time you got caught yeah I mean it's pretty pretty horrible um why he's alive and uh even till today there's people out there still doing the same thing and even though he's getting harder and harder I don't know how they do but I don't want to find out he horrible so you would but then you you went back again and tried again for a seventh time why didn't you give up you've tried defense the fense doesn't work you've tried Crossing six times in a small inflatable boat that doesn't work why didn't you give up what for give up go back to Cameroon maybe live in what go back to what didn't I get a job in cam in Morocco uh why couldn't I why shouldn't I try again it was all about trying and I think like when your dream is so big when you have something it's hard to give up you know like you get to the point that you um you're capable of risking more for Just a Dream which is something that a normal person would not understand like I just ask myself now like why didn't I give up at that time why do I keep doing this why did I take those risk because there was a moment that even now I think about it I'm like that was stupid he was like a dead sentence you just get lucky from coming out there alive you know but I took those decision your dream was so big that he um blinds you you couldn't see any anything else except what you have not what is in front you couldn't see anything in front of you except what you have in your mind you could only see what is in your mind and regardless what is in in front of you what um the obstacle is in front of you you can only see what in front of in your mind and it could nothing could
stop you and what was that in your mind that was pulling you dream dream to make it to go have that boxing you know uh that uh boxing career um set up a stability for me and my family and my potential kids so they don't have to go to what I been through you know so uh I knew that if I give up I wouldn't be able to look at in myself in the mirror like this he would have be asham of to leave with myself I couldn't leave with myself it was hot you thought about it you think about like oh maybe maybe there's not a way what for like going back and then maybe some not really have something to do and some day you see your your child get sick and you you feel powerless just as your parent were to you I'm like no that's not happening and then the seventh attempt was successful yeah take me take me to that seventh attempt of getting across the sea to get to Europe you you get in the boat there's you and a couple of other men you start paddling the sixth at the sixth attempt was close to the winter okay we get caught and I was this close we were already on the other side we get caught by a uh Army it wasn't even like a um um uh the I don't know how the the Coast Guard he wasn't even the Coast Guard he was the army with a big ship and they were just passing by going somewhere after 3 hours inside the ocean we were paddling we knew that we are getting there and then we get caught back in Morocco they knew that we are gone we made it and then um at that time he was like close to Winter the winter was coming the water wasn't stable anymore we couldn't attempt anymore and for me she was that I tell myself that the day that I'm touching the ocean again I'm not coming back ever I don't know exactly what I was with willing to do but I'm like it's not happening this is it you know my frustration was top to the level so we uh we um recruit back in the forest trying those try fences or just stay there during the winter because the water I mean yes you can try some crazy
stuff but only when you see that there's an ounce of a chance but when you look at the oceans the big mon monster rising up with those waves you know that you cannot go through there's no way no you can't do that a small boat on a on a small inflatable boat and it's cold it's freezing so I think what was uh even scary the most was the coal you would just get frozen out there you know so I stayed in the forest for like months uh months and uh once when the U winter was um by the touching the end I had a friend that people he was in t t and then he reached out to me he said I have a I have a ship let's go I couldn't leave Tang I did everything I get to the bus station and was so much police and this I didn't want to end up in in the desert in USDA I'm like okay just and then the next day one one uh the next day um we are running from the police uh from 4:00 a.m. to like maybe 4:00 p.m. we came back to our spot I open my phone I saw like 12 M call I checked and then he was like Ito made Ito was the guy that was calling me I'm like damn I could have been making it too with them did they get they got to Europe yeah they got to Europe like bro come on I couldn't sleep there anymore and I have a lot of call and people was like yes we want you to be our captain you this that that that I'm like I'm going you know and I didn't want any promises like oh we going to do this buy a uh boat in one week or no I have a guy that we've been talking for a long time he say I have a boat already I'm like let's go so you get on a boat an inflatable boat I heard that you wrapped yourself in silver foil no no I didn't but um I was planning um we put a life jacket though we had the one thing that we are very um straight about is a life jacket yeah I didn't but because over time you learn a lot of stuff and you know that those silver for uh would deviate radiation from like a you know they have the red Rader yeah yeah yeah so if you wear the silver then the the radar can't find you yeah the radar can find you he can see you because when the radar is going like this and then he see like uh I think it's infrared or something and then he see movement he like but when you have that se for you
they can see you so that time tell me about this successful Journey you get in the boat not you and a few other men you're the captain no we didn't get in a boat I went to rabber which there were what's rabber a city okay there were I went from uh NAD to Raba to meet them like okay when are we going to Tang because I've been in I've been in t i I've been living in Tang for so long um until winter that I went back to to NAD so they are living in a Raba which is kind of like a city and they have those little job of construction I'm like when are we going I meet them there and like okay let's go I'm like oh we are still working we're going to get paid on Saturday and this is what when like I think this was like Tuesday I'm like bro I'm not staying here until Saturday bro bro my blood was boiling like I'm like man I miss this I could have been making it with uh with it with the other guy that called me so we the the leader the the head guy of the group he said okay then I'll go with you uh because I was a captain I I need to go and check the place and everything say I'll go with you the rest of people they can wait until we give everything is good we give them uh sign so they can come we move by the time we touch ground we are stepping down of the bus in Tangier I got sick I got a fever and we are going to this house inside mod we have to take our shoes off walk inside mod to get into this house to sleep something like that and I was sick bro but I can't tell anybody that I'm sick I'm the captain and people saw me in t I'm like wow this guy is here he's going to make it he's not coming back so they trying to bribe the the guy that I was to get them in the in the group and you I'm like no we collect the money together to buy um to buy the boat so I can uh kick take anybody out of it uh I'm like if uh because they call me vam they say if vanam is the captain you guys are not coming back you're going to make it and I was sick nobody knows so long story short uh we've been there for like couple days and I didn't even have any money to eat and then uh but I check internet every day to check the weather the weather to see how the ocean is and he wasn't so was terrible and I found one day I think was Tuesday and he was the
second April 2nd 2013 and I say this day is good because this is the speed of the wind this is the uh direction of the wind this this I know that thing I don't know how I know it but by the time I knew it properly I was a captain so I say tell your guy to come this day because we uh because we are leaving by the time they come with the boat we are not sleeping here with the boat we have to just be going with the boat because it's a very even the police when they like uh bust into houses they will search for that mhm and they came we get to the to the to where we were going next to where we were going but the police car was up there so we couldn't inflate here and then put the raffle inside the ocean without them seeing us now we have to make a detour all night long we make a detour to go somewhere in the front and uh even though I was sick usually Captain you don't carry stuff because they protect you for the big action for the main action which is inside the ocean and then while we are making these dets some people are being left behind and this I'm like bro where's the where is the boat where is the RAF they say oh it's here is to this guy I'm like bring that raffle if you stay back stay alone don't stay don't stay back with the raffle I take that thing I like if somebody want to go he has to cash up with me I just lead the way and keep going and all night we go up and then finally go down to the um step and find a place and it was all rocks and I'm there you know we used to go to where to the beach so there is a sand MH it's easier because like when you walk to the sand like this to go inside water and every footstep get you deeper and deeper now you are in the middle of rocks and then the ocean is there you don't know how deep is the ocean there and how you going to get in that ocean you want just you can just jump like this to get in the ocean and then uh the wave was so strong you you will he like like damn was it night time yeah early in the morning okay because we are waiting we are aiming to do this when uh they call for 5:00 a.m. prayer okay yeah but we get little late because because of those day
too but I'm the captain I'm the one that everybody's expecting on me and he will we were he was uh nine of us so I I tell them okay with me here here let me um um find a place you know when something is yours is yours I walked around and I get somewhere in the middle of rocks I found a spot just big as big as this table enough to inflate the boat just enough no more than that and he was like this clean I touch it it there wasn't anything sharp on it just like that enough I went back and called the other guys like let's go they came I'm like okay let's infl the boat eventually the boat Gets In The Water you go yeah and the boat is rescued by the American Red Cross by the Red Cross don't know if it was I we know there was a Red Cross base in in Spain in did you get to you got to Spain we didn't get there but we know that there's a Red Cross inside ocean in fact okay in fact we have their numbers so you knew there was a Red Cross there so you got close to Spain yeah and then the Red Cross came and got you we get far from the uh Moroccan Coast but we don't know where is the limit but we just get far from this coast and then trying to get as far as possible uh inside the ocean and call but the problem is that you're in the middle of the ocean and even though it's where L the two the closest distance of the two continent uh from this side you can see the other side but in the midor of the ocean when they say where are you what are you seeing you can really give them a Direction so sometime because their goal is just to rescue you their goal is not to bring you to Spain and if they cannot find you they will even call a Moroccan Coast uh coast guard for uh help and if you know you're lucking day you get fined by Moroccan CU God you know where you're going you're going back to so we P like for one I think it was like hour and a half almost 2 hours and then there was a helicopter uh in in front of us and he was like standing there like he was looking about something and I tell the guy that okay this not a good sign whether this helicopter can play against us or he can play for us what we do call we call now because when they ask if
they ask what are you seen we will see the elicopter is right above us and then we call so you called the Red Cross we called the Red Cross you called the Red Cross yes and what did you say for the restroom oh we are in the inside the ocean we need help and then I don't know we pick up the phone and start to ask if we have yes how many people do you have a lady in the boat and this I'm like what the hell is this problem we are human being and I'm like yes we have ladies even kids we didn't have kids we have ladies I'm like what's that what's different that makes like you will just let off us here because like yes even kids and say okay what are you seeing we see we we see the helicopter right above say Okay welcome in did and they found you yeah and then right after that it started rain and the water really get bad he was moving now we are in the middle of the ocean in this little uh boat just as like this table and he's like going all we TI get tied in the middle we were it was nine of us how long did it take for the Red Cross to find you uh like 10 10 to 15 minutes it's quick yeah and they they take yeah I think a little more maybe like 20 minutes and they take you to Spain and then when they when they find us because now he was little harder to find us because it was raining and the ocean wasn't stable you know when the ocean is stable you can see something from far away now this is there something crazy that happened inside the ocean like from the coast the ocean is flat when you get inside at some point bro ocean has Mountain like there's a way that you're climbing and then until you get to the Peck and then there's a way that you're going down inside the ocean I don't know how it works but it's exactly like that and you can see like a h Mountain inside the ocean and they they took you to Spain yeah they found us uh and then took us in their in their boat they have a real boat you know like solid big boat that took us inside and then uh brought us to their um headquarter which is in in Spain and you stayed in Spain in a Detention Center in a cell with 10 or 20 other men um for two months yes it was like I think uh 53 days how were you treated treated we were eating but it was a prison though it was quite a prison I
think you get to the point that you I'm like maybe they should have just let us inside the ocean or maybe we were better in in Morocco because you locked you can do anything you you realize that you had freedom even though your life wasn't the best that's when I mean you here you're getting Feit every day but they tell you where when to eat when to shower when to go sleep when to go out and everything and after like um couple weeks it started to become hot because at first you excited I'm like oh I made it you're excited you I'm in Spain I'm in Europe but after a couple weeks I'm like come on man like I need my sentence now because if you you had a fake idea at one point and if you oh no when you get caught you make sure that you don't even have a receipt or whatever on you so you threw it in the water oh yeah when did you throw it in the water when you saw the Red Cross coming I no when you're sure that the Red Cross will get you because otherwise that will be your way out in Morocco sometime he can prevent you not to be through in the desert when did they they released you from the Detention Center in Spain yes eventually after almost two months and they gave you 50 no not from the Detention Center there is a Association that come charity for refuges some organization that are out there so they will come take you and then bring you to their uh place and where did you where did you want to go what was the plan so you're now in Spain you're free you've got 50 so my plan first of all was to go to first I wanted to go to the UK MH but I knew that even though I'm in Europe the free circulation in Europe will not allows me to get in the UK because they are not in the that zone in the shenen zone so I think I started for Germany because I wanted a place that boxing was big but for somehow I was in a group of people that most of them they like oh we are going to France oh Shan all this all that and in the 9th of June 2013 26 years old now you arrive in Paris and I read that on your first day in Paris um you figured out how where to eat where to sleep and you found a boxing gym where did you sleep when you arrived in Paris in the parking lot you slept slept in a parking lot yeah how
long did you sleep in the parking lot for like two months for two months you slept in a parking lot how did you how did you so you arrive in Paris you're sleeping in a car park um how do you find a gym pay for a gym oh next day I was after it so I finally get where I could start that dream that I've been having for a decade what did you do did you just walk up to the boxing gym and say hey can I come here for free yeah basically what I I worked in the front des and they gave me this um form and then I saw the price and everything and I couldn't afford it now I'm like can I talk to a coach to the boxing coach and the ladies said the boxing coach is not there today but uh he has his substitute is there you can talk to him and we I just explain straightforward like okay I arrived in Paris yesterday I don't have where to sleep you know but all what I want I want a place to train so that's why I wanted to see a boxing a coach if you can let me train here because I have no money uh I have nowhere to sleep I have nothing but the only thing that I'm asking for is a place to train because I want to become a world champion straightforward that was it and he said um if you have a phone number give me your phone number I'll speak to a boxing coach he'll be here on Wednesday and I'll give you a call back that's how I gave him my phone number I had a phone and then on Thursday morning he called me and he said yes I spoke to the coach and he agreed that you can come and train and the next training uh is Saturday and that's how he started did kment yeah d k did a come on was that man that you met that day in the boxing gym that gave you a chance yeah and he let you train for free how he speak on my behalf to the coach who let me let you train yeah and they gave you new pair of shoes I read that he gave you keys to an apartment to sleep in as well uh yes after like two months uh he gave me he gave me a key he has like one apartment that uh he was uh I think was ABNB or renting out and then he get free for coule is and at time I think uh he knows me a little bit more and he gave me that apartment for almost two months he he changed your life
didn't he because if he hadn't have said yes if he hadn't have introduced you to the person if he hadn't help have helped you he helped me a lot he helped me a lot changed my life I think is too much say but he helped me a lot um I mean we were at the gym and then he knows exactly my situation because I was uh clear to him telling him everything but other people at the gym didn't know and in fact he he at some point even tell me that you don't have to tell your story to everybody they don't need to know your situation you know like why did he help you why did he help you because he was kind he just like me and like to help me and uh hear me a lot it's because he didn't have a a reason no he didn't a lot of people will have expectation that maybe at time you would you would not know but later on you will find out but he was just genuine you never have like a expectation you know in fact sometime he's the guy that sometime you will even call you will not he will not be around shut down his phone and everything he's always been like that because it was quite difficult to become a boxer in France without having all of the correct identity papers he eventually suggests that you take up mixed martial arts as a way to make some quick money um and in 2013 26 years old you went to the MMA Factory in France and introduced your coach yourself to a coach called Fernand Lopez and within four months I mean he saw something especially in you in terms of MMA and within four months of that you had your first MMA fight yeah what did you think when you first saw the sport of MMA did you had you ever heard of MMA before no so DJ was the first one to talk to me about MMA I'm like oh yes you have a good striking if you do MMA I'm like what is MMA it's Mar okay good then what's that what's mix Mas say yes it's like boxing with wrestling with this I'm like ah I think I have seen that once on the TV I was watching TV I see something like that that like yes if you have if you learn some good wrestling some take down defense little bit of a grappling and this I'm like what's grappling to explain the whole thing to me and this is back in 2013 June 2013 and I'm like bro nah that's not what I want I want you know
the Mike Tyson boxing right so yes I'm like that's what I want you fought five times in Europe before you were signed for the UFC which is quite remarkable because a lot of people spend many many many many years trying to get into the UFC you fought just five times in Europe before you were offered a chance to fight in the UFC I didn't even I wasn't even planning to go to the UFC and uh but as soon as I start I started to fight in France then it became it became very hard for me to have a fight in France people didn't want to fight me fight me why oh they say I'm brutal and I'm like it's a fighting game I mean the the goal is to be brutal and then I'm not having fight because I'm brutal like I heard your coach he actually posted on Facebook saying um asking if anyone in Europe wanted to fight you the post is will anybody in Europe fight Francis yes nobody wanted to fight you I mean no anybody at that level because even though a lot of people didn't want to fight me I was still unexperienced so he's not like they will give just give me to anybody but nobody either like want to take a risk there's not a gain for a elite fighter to fight me he's risking of losing everything but not a not quite a lot to gain were you aiming to be in the UFC cuz you now you knew what MMA was but when you started becom an MMA fighter were you trying to get into the UFC no how did that happen I was just like you know training uh because I I had time I uh I was jobless so I have all my time and I like to train and I found MMA I found MMA very uh exciting I like all those stuff so I was training boxing MMA and then I start to fight MMA and sometime maybe I will have like um couple hundred Euro fighting uh MMA who who was very welcome at the at the time so I'm like let's do this but that was it and people keep saying oh if you improve your Jujitsu if you do this you're going to become a UFC champion like then what I really like I was so focused on boxing and then um but I think like MMA came to me and gave me that opportunity and then all of the sudden I'm here I have the UFC contract ra how did that happen how did that happen did they call you or your agent or your manager so I think um uh Fernando a guy that was a
manager at time uh he uh Thiago okay Thiago okamura okay yeah and then he was the guy that was uh pitching me to the UFC okay so your manager your coach knew someone who was pitching you to the UFC yeah manager okay and then that's how I get uh that's how I get the UFC contract where was your first fight in the UFC Orlando Orlando yeah was that your first time in America yeah uh it was the first time and I remember like uh I get there and I'm like okay and uh there was somebody at the airport with a tablet with my name on it and then picked me up with a Cadillac brought me to the hotel the H I had residency they check me in brought me to my room how did it feel then I call home I call my mom I'm like I don't know what it is but I think your son have made it finally get to that like I mean like I get to America basically so that's what because for so many years America was the dream to get in America and I get in America and in a big way not the way that I get in Europe because I get in Europe in the service door I get in America basically on on the red carpet that was it that was 2015 2015 how much that first fight do you does that that first fight make you rich no you don't get paid much for the first UFC fight yeah he was $10,000 plus 10,000 uh win bonus and then with all the commissions you got out with almost just half uh but he wasn't he wasn't about the fight he was more about like I think me coming to America and all the stuff he was more than what I was making in the fight that's nine years after you left Cameroon you fought for the UFC heavyweight championship belt and eventually you won that belt and you you held that UFC heavyweight title yeah but I lost I I fought before yeah you fought quite a lot yes I fought in uh 2018 yeah yeah um but eventually you won the same guy yeah I lost I've I've watched your career so I've watched the journey and it felt like for the first start of your career I don't know it felt like maybe you weren't as focused but then it felt like this this other half of your UFC career something had changed I was focused it's just that I didn't I never I never done sport before I didn't grow up as the athlete so I didn't know how how they do I
didn't know how they train I didn't know how to prepare for a championship I didn't know anything so I was just out there trying and then in that fight I did a lot of mistake and I learned from it and I'm like okay the good thing I might have lost this fight but this fight would be the biggest um fight in my career because everything that is coming after this fight everything that I'm learn that I learned in this fight I will Implement that in my game in my career uh from now on and he'll be quite helpful you have the hardest punch ever recorded by the UFC the equivalent of 93 horsepower a smart car by comparison maxes out at 80 horsepower and they called you the Predator you did eventually win the UFC heavyweight title and you held it between 21 to 2021 and 2023 and eventually you left the UFC in January 2023 because of basically a dis a disagreement with with the UFC with Dana White about I guess freedom and money yes freedom and uh treatment the way that uh I was being treated I didn't like it was there ever a moment where you realized that you'd really made it you know you're you're a young man that come from Cameroon walk you walked your way out of the you know through Africa and then you got on a boat and went to Spain and then from Spain to Paris then from Paris to America and then you you reach the highest mountain which is you win the UFC heavyweight title which is like the peak of fighting was there a moment where you you thought I've I've made it it's not like you reach the higher Mountain you know uh whatever Mountain you are on top there's always then when you get in The Pick of a mountain you realize there's another Mountain that's higher you know and um you realize that what motivate you what keep you going wasn't the peak of the mountain but he was the peak of all Mountain so then you keep is never a satisf satisfaction even though you you take a a moment I'm like oh finally make it to the top you know you take a breath but you know that you will keep going it's I think it's a mindset that uh you have and basically will not stop like you don't have a limit you don't have a place that you say okay if I get here then I'm done there's always something uh around there's always
something which is set as a higher Mountain you know so but I think um what I do is to take time you know I like to go home a lot and I like to go back on my path and uh every step every time I'll be there I'm like thinking of the moment that I was there like maybe 15 years ago and he will feel like he was just yesterday and I will trying to see like where I am today you know see the differ that's exactly when I realized because when I'm here I'm just living like it's normal like is everybody like he was just like this all the time but when I get back I connect with the with the past and then I realize how far uh the road has been and you've you've really gone I mean it's been a an incredible J has your mother ever seen you fight in the UFC has she ever been there no I triy I trying to get her uh to my fight back in 2019 she couldn't get a visa she get uh denied twice and I'm like okay okay this is so stressful I'm not doing it again it was also embarrassing stressful one and even for her it was very tough and I'm like okay I'm not putting her to this again uh there will be a moment I think if I set up if I set set things up pretty good there will be a moment that things will be easier for her to see me fight why are you fighting why are you fighting now I mean you you made I mean the reason you left the UFC was because of Freedom issues and you didn't like the treatment you wanted to be free the argument you had with Dana um you know you say that essentially you you weren't willing to um comply with the the system of the UFC where you don't really have the option to go and box and do other things Dana White said that you're in a place where you wanted to take less risks and you wanted to fight lesser opponents for more money so we're going to let him do that is that true do you agree with what he said he said you wanted to take less risks and fight other opponents lesser opponents to make more money I think if we have to spend time to talk about like what Dana White say if it's true or not we're going to spend a whole night here and then don't be okay with a lot of thing um I think the situation was a little bit embarrassing for him and then he was going to make it statement and find his way out less of opinion like living my comfortable life uh career in
MMA that I'm quite comfortable into to step into boxing to take the best for my first uh boxing match which I never really do a professional boxing match that does that sound like a easy fight I mean I think he has to say something and um those who knows uh those who know know that he has just has to say something to get out of that situation the truth what's the truth easy he didn't want to um compromise he didn't want to change and I feel like that situation wasn't good for me and uh I tell myself if that's the end then let it be I I mean in fact I had no guarantee that the boxing that I've been dreaming of doing I I will have to do it it will happen at the time but uh I didn't just want to comply and do thing that I'm not okay with just because they led me with that one option to say yes with things that I don't like that was the thing I I was very aware that uh that could be it but he has to be on my term and even though he means like going back to Africa you know you know I don't know Farm I I love F farming I always love uh farm and if that mean I had to go back and farm I was okay with it so I made my peace with myself uh at time and that's why I stood with my decision I turned down a lot of money that I didn't have at time I was for the most part I was broke I was living uh out of loan so yes you're the heavyweight champion of the world in the UFC you're broke I mean not that broke when I say I was broke I mean for for a he for a heavyweight champion I wasn't comfor millionaire yeah I wasn't comfortable uh were you a millionaire maybe but uh never made a million a fight but um the most you made was £500,000 except except except if I have accept to um to sign a new contract I would have been having a lot of money but that contract was coming with a lot of thing that I was fighting against and uh that's why I didn't sign so I'm like okay whatever this deal is whatever this Contra is I'm fighting this Contra of um instead of renewing the Contra for and have more money and really have nothing changed that mean I'm setting my myself up for another for another years in the same situation that uh I'm giving away all the power in a contract that is not giving me any power the power you wanted
was Freedom yeah was Freedom was it possibility to say okay this is not right you can do this you know or you have to do this you have I mean I I I need a obligation I don't want a one-side contract I don't want a contract that okay there's uh I have no right but in the other hand the other side of the table have no obligation so in fact uh I mean I'm giving everything for nothing just for money I want some of that leverage so you wanted to be able to decide and you wanted not like to decide but I want I want at least some some responsibility on the other side showing toward me you know I want some some responsibility for example when I come to like say healthare for that level for the money that I could have been making uh for the money that I would have be making if I had signed that contract I could have have any kind of healthare that I want but at the same time I also want the guy on the other side of the table to take some responsibility I'm like okay I'm giving you a healthare for example so you wanted some something like healthcare included yeah yeah I want stuff like that I want something like a guarantee since I'm making this of a as a living and I'm exclusive to you you guarantee me that whenever I could fight you find something for me you are obligated to give me a fight know that because if I don't sign a contract and you want me to sign and you want me to run out of money and craw back to you because I need those money then you staff me and not give me a fight you know even though you know that even know that you you know that I might need two just because you know that I might need two or three fight to make a living to keep off up my lifestyle then uh you strengthen back down to one fight so I will be needing money and then will be forced to take a contract that I don't want just because I need money so I want to make sure I'm super clear on this you you essentially wanted a guarantee of fights within the contract so that you could a guarantee of Engagement I'm giving everything I'm giving up all my right exclusivity exclusivity and go and do anything else but I really yes but you are not
committed to anything so okay so I'm the UFC I'm not committed to anything but you have to give up your exclusivity yeah and I'm not even guaranteeing that I'm going to give you and then some some exclusivity in that contract said in forever yeah to exclusive forever in certain situations but at the same time you really have not obligation but I have no responsibility obligation to give you anything yeah so it's really one-sided yeah okay so if if you decide not to give me a fight for two years I can't say anything and you'd starve but if you if you call me and say oh you have a fight in uh okay I have a fight I want you to fight in one month and I'm say oh I'm hurt then you have right to say okay I extend your contract for 6 month oh okay so if you turn down a fight then they can extend the contract for and doesn't matter the reason for any reason so you could be and and and there's nobody will be consulted for that if that's fair or not they make the decision so you so I could know that you were sick and I could offer you a fight knowing that you couldn't take it and that would extend the contract six months yeah so you decided to quit and you knew that when you quit you could lose everything you there was no guarantee that you could could go there's not a bigger fighting League I decided to leave not to quit Okay you decided to leave um and when you left did you have a plan not really how do you feel about the UFC now I don't know I think they do business how is good for them they they do a good business for themsel I just wanted to do what's good for me too and you went on to do the impossible once again in your life because you know many people thought that maybe you were you were gone now you were gone from fighting but then after that it was announced that you'd be fighting Tyson Fury in a boxing match who is the World Heavyweight Champion of boxing and by many people's account you know I watched the fight as well I stayed up in the UK and watched it um you beat him you didn't beat him on the scorecard but I think in every sense of the word you beat him and for that fight you got paid I read many times more for
that one fight than you got paid in your entire UFC career yes from one fight with Tyson Fury yeah uh and even in my he would have be a Tyson Fury fight or he would have be a PF fight I knew that uh from that moment uh every fight that I will make will I will be pay more than what I've have been making my entire career why because uh my last year years in the UFC I could have been making more if I have accept the contract so I basically live left a lot of money on the table in order to gain my freedom I bought my freedom basically you know the they said that they said freedom is not given it's not given freedom is not free you have to give something in order to get that so that's why at that point I make so less of a money because I refuse I turn down a lot of money but it worked out it worked in the end because you got paid more in that Fury fight than you ever lucky yeah and then I read that for the fight with Anthony Joshua you earned about 15 million pounds which is almost 20 million true I don't know I haven't count yet so I can't I can't say if it's true this is I mean but it's not true it's not true yeah but you earned a lot of money right yeah lifechanging amounts of money what's life changing I don't know enough money 1,000 can't change life depend of where we are standing from you're speaking from my side or from your side or from moai you give you give 10 million to somebody it's just another 10 million and he won't change anything in his life and you give 1,000 to somebody he change his life he save his life he would take that 1,000 maybe send his kid at school or maybe buy them some medicine save them from illness or something so lifechanging money is not the amount why are you still why are you you still fighting then cuz you don't you don't need to F why why I start fighting you have to find in order to know why I I'm still fighting you have to know why I start fighting why why is that I love fighting you're not doing it for the money no when I start fighting there
wasn't money I fought a lot of fight for free that I had no not a pennies and what is your goal now with fighting you you've done it I mean you've done it you you did the UFC you've done boxing as I said there's always a challenge there's always like could this be possible can I done this can I you know like what's the what's my limit how far can I go I think I think whatever we do in life is a shame if we end up not really find our full potential or not giving it up you know I I think I going to give give all everything that I have then I go home but as long as I still feel like I have something for fighting I have some to give to the fighting Community uh I go to the gym I get excited I wake up I think of training and I get excited like oh this is it I still have that motivation that fire in me then I keep doing it you know I go to the gym I train I think like oh I learned something I have some improvement you know or there's something that I really want to understand how it works or how want to master yes I think it works like that we have to remember that is not just fighting it's a martial art fighting is a martial art and martial art never end before uh MMA came around you will see people character kungu ta they doing it for like 6 until they are 60 70 80 they are still doing it because it's a passion every single time you eat you have an opportunity to improve your health and that's why I love Zoe because Zoe helps me to make the smartest food choices for me and my body and as you guys will know by now Zoe is a sponsor of this podcast and I'm an investor in the company and if you haven't tried Zoe I highly recommend you do because Zoe combines My Health Data with Zoe's worldclass science and using those two things Zoe guides me to Better Health every single time I make a food choice and eat which means that I have more energy better sleep better mood and I'm less hungry and the most important thing is Zoe actually works it's backed by their recent clinical trial something called the method study which is the gold standard of scientific research I started Zoe just over a year ago now and I've been able to track my progress week after week so I can learn how to be even smarter the following week and if you
haven't joined Zoe yet I'm giving you 10 % off when you join Zoe now just use the code ce10 at checkout when you left Cameroon you had a really clear goal you had this Vision a really really clear goal what is that to stand to stand on top of the mountain and you stood on top of the mountain but there's the biggest mountain there's always the biggest mountain there's always a mountain ahead that is big what is the big mountain in front of you now what's coming what is that another fight do you do you want to become the heavyweight champion of the world in boxing as well uh or it that's never be my goal my goal was really because I was aware of the situation my last fight my first fight in boxing was less than year ago octob October 20 uh 23 and I was what already 37 it's not a moment in your life that you're expecting to have a career into a combat sport like boxing you know he was just like okay what can I do and I think that question still stand and even for MMA I think there's a lot of thing for me I've been doing even MMA for just like what 11 years and I think I still have so a lot of thing to learn to experiment to to show in a fight I think I still have a lot and I still have that passion I'm um I'm not very young but I still have couple years in front of me to be doing it because after this you have to remember that after this maybe by the time I'm 40 42 then I'm retired what a early retirement we only have that short window of a time then at 42 like is a time that most people career just pick up but we are forced to retire by that time so why would I just like do what I can do until then and see how far I can go you fought Tyson many people think you won the fight incredible fight um you fought anti Joshua you lost that fight um and I think at the end at the end of that fight Anthony actually says he says you should you need to carry on boxing you need to carry on going and I think that's the sentiment that everyone has no I'm I'm I'm carrying on I don't really uh take that fight as a note because um not to say I mean you cannot you you will be a fool if you're going to fight basically in boxing somebody like Anthony Joshua and
don't think that you can lose right or trying to make an excuse of losing if there's a somebody that you can lose against in a combat sport then he's somebody like Anthony Joshua right but um honestly on that fight there was in lot of unfairness you know and then uh which might have been for something or not but there was a lot of unfairness unlike the Tyson fight that everything was straight and I think nobody was giving me a chance and then the everything was fair um no sneaky stuff but the second one he was so messy what you mean a lot of tricks like that will get you everywhere that I was going in that week I have to wait at least 1 Hour 1 hour and a half before the beginning or before Antony Joshua arrived but they they always send a car to pick me up like that amount of time even the F day the Friday I stay in the locker room for 4 hour and half 4 hours and and half they send a car to pick me up pick up time 10:30 because you're supposed to fight they telling me up front I supposed to fight around midnight and 100 p.m. so pick up time 1: a.m. yes on 1:00 a.m. sorry pick up time uh 10:30 it's like okay good it's how it works is that amount of time then you get in the arena they're like oh yeah there's a there's a producer like oh we are we are running behind uh clock on the broadcasting so we might be fighting at 1:45 okay it's not that bad I've been training to fight in that time frame in around 1 p.m. 1:00 a.m. bro we are sitting there and then watching Antony Joshua arrive in the arena at 1 1:30 like how come you tell me that with you guys tell me that I'm going to fight around midnight and 1:00 or that is delayed are going to fight at 1:45 and then he's now just arrive when he arrive we know that it's about 2 hours before there is a fight you don't get in the arena 1 hour before the fight no it's 2 hours is the aage and stuff like that they did the L lot again not to say I couldn't lost the fight but do you think they were doing that intentionally yeah you you think that yeah I said the whole week it was like
that they were wasting your time I mean I think it's a trick I didn't know before but I think it's a is a trick that they have in boxing they have a lot of tricks and uh in fact like in the in the week during the week my coach doing because he a very C person and he was like he get to the point that he was uh really mad and was yelling about it like no this how you get to get you do to get fter tired and I'm like no it's okay I didn't know how deep was the problem you know until I get in the final set then I'm like okay this is serious but it was too late were you tired by the time very tired by the time I was sleeping you were sleeping before yeah I don't know why I I don't know if it was just a fatig or whatever I was in the Locking room getting uh warm up and and felling asleep and feeling asleep so that's why like uh personally yeah I take that loss but I don't put it in the context you know I think it could have be different do you think you could have beat him I still I still think I could have beat him I could have lost two but no that easy yeah things were so easy um like I wasn't I don't know yeah did you feel like yourself no no at all no at all but I think it was my mistake I wouldn't I shouldn't have done good in the fury fight I think that was what was expecting in the fury fight for me to lose maybe in that um fashion you have um you come out of the fight with Anthony Joshua and you go back to making plans for the future and then life shows how cruel and unfair it's capable of being when you're 15-month-old baby boy Kobe passes away just a few months ago I'm really sorry thank you and um it is the the most unimaginable the most inimaginable thing yeah that's something that I never I never imagine and all of the sudden nothing really matters all of the sudden you realize that you were complaining about a lot instead of being feeling blessed being grateful you were complaining about things that didn't work but in fact everything was working well how are you how am I yeah alive I mean surviving but uh not the same I don't think he he will ever be the
same and I can't explain how in just 15 months I mean I still ask myself how in just 15 months a kids or a person can take this much space and be basically became you to the point that when he's gone you you feel like you're missing too just 15 months I mean two years ago he wasn't there and now was living good he came and he left and I feel like I don't know is is a weird type of thing basically like uh after what I was saying earlier like my whole life was about to do to fight in order for my family not to go through those situation not to feel powerless uh or useless in the situation and for the very only person that I should fight for I couldn't I didn't even have a chance so sometime only that idea is painful you didn't have a chance yeah he wasn't sick we didn't have to take him to the hospital didn't have anything like that you know I wish I could have like you know take him to the hospital find for a good doctor like make calls and do stuff you know feel like I'm useful I'm playing I'm useful just as I I always want to be so that was it is it possible to is it possible to have you been able to grieve and process it how do they grieve how do the processes I never learn I never know how he works you just feel it some days you do with it somay you do without it how how do they deal with that kind of situation there's not a um how do they say there's not a uh process that they set up to to learn how to go through people will do people will do do it in different ways and how long it takes to grief when did is stop whenever you know one of the big conversations in um I think that's become quite popular is the idea of mental health and our and protecting our mental health and being aware of our
Mental Health when something like that happens to you it's the the most I mean I've never I don't have a children yet so I don't I've not been through something like that but I can just imagine the the way that I try and imagine it is I have these wonderful nieces and nephews in my life my brother is a year older than me has three children and they're like my children in a way and just the thought of something happening to them is the most it's the most unimag unimaginable crushing feeling to me um and men in particular aren't very good at dealing with things compared to my partner for example example she's very expressive very emotional you she expresses how she feels what do you like at expressing how you feel you don't learn how to express I think I found myself uh very emotional at some point more than what I thought you don't it's not something that you commend it you don't control just happen and then you you discover yourself and you still in that process yeah you discover your own self you think you've been through a lot you think you're strong you was you thought you were strong you realize you were I how was your family your your family your mother everybody else surprising I think um a lot of people are doing pretty good better which is for me surprise I always walk around like the toughest guy until now until now yeah and I get [Music] to you know just being tired just getting tired being tough think it's exhausting being tough mean you have to be through over and over to a lot of which just not easy to deal with because people see you as a you know they see you as a tough guy that's your they called you the Predator they you know I don't know I've been questioning myself about that lately yeah that's why I like you see people trying [Music] to know somebody pretend to know somebody mean wise they don't even know
thems like you can know somebody who who doesn't even know your own self you don't know who you are you don't know what you can do what can affect you how you can deal with things that never happened to you so you can expect to know that about somebody what have you been questioning in yourself if I can deal with stuff if I can handle stuff been doubting about my capability of stuff sometimes what what what are you talking about in terms of dealing with stuff handling stuff emotional things yeah like um yeah even [Music] emotionally you know there's lot of there some days that you wake up and you don't you think about every about stuff about everything and you should really like what's the purpose what's the goal if it's going to end up like this was the purpose of fighting if I end up not being able to fight for the only person that I can fight for let's talk about something else yeah I'm sorry what else you get move on to something I am you're in Vegas at the moment yes but I'm going home soon going back to Cameroon mhm next week next week mhm what's the plan uh going to be there for a couple weeks I'm training now um I want to really make a purpose make a have a purpose you know make a sense of all of this and I think uh I'm going back to fight so I've been training a little bit because like I get to the point that I feel like I really need to push myself to get out there started think about something fine fine purpose and that's what I'm doing now training and I think I sure fight I need a fight so uh I might fight before the end of the year you know I think some MMA fight will be good to get back in the loop a little bit before going back to boxing again you're fighting in a new new League under a new promotion um yeah which is very exciting I saw the announcement yeah I supposed to be fighting um no I'm not fighting in the
pfl Africa I'm fighting in pfl global uh but yes we we we along uh we launched the PF Africa and they announced it the other day in Nigeria in Lagos Nigeria with the the uh one of our new partners ilos so been good and you're it's about purpose now it's about finding new purpose you said yeah finding a reason fighting for a reason you know something to fight for I think is whether you you make it a purpose to keep going or a reason to keep going or a reason to stop but other ways either way you can serve as a as a reason and your reason your purpose you're going to get out there and find it yeah I think my son was full of life I think if there's one thing that he wasn't uh he wasn't inactive he was very active was very curious about stuff he was and I think uh the best way to honor him would definitely not be to quit or to live thing like that because of him I think if there is a way that he would like to things to be done was to serve as a motivation or to be a reason for things to happen that's what you've always been Francis that's what you've always been you've always been an inspiration he's now an inspiration I think he's now your inspiration yeah I had so much in this kid like he was just 15 years 15 months old but you know I have so many plants was doing this was preparing that was having a b building a basketball court was getting ready for his um uh like looking for a socker uh of his side so we can go play soccer when he started because he just started to work when he solid we go play everything he become he became a a go he wasn't like just a kid he was a go like was exciting waiting you know his day and his time but yeah so fighting next the goal is to fight before the end of the year so I'm training I'm keeping in shape but I have to go back in Africa a little bit is it easy to train at the moment or is it day by day it's day by day I think as I said like there someday like I don't just really want to do anything I don't really care and those are the day that you I mean that's how
that's what your your heart tell you like your heart don't really care about anything then your brain will tell you be reasonable and tell you that to go that's when you really have to at that moment that you feel like you don't want to do anything is exactly the moment that you have to do something to get off of there because like um those emotion they are pretty good at shoting things around you sometime you get in the just get I don't know in the bath and then just get stuck in there and then memories and stuff just get you stuck in there and you it's so sad inside that you don't even know that you can push the door and get out so you have to do something you have to keep and then when you push the door get out maybe work in the room or something then it change your mind and you're like oh this pick something down and then you help change your mind but if you stay in that bath uh bathroom those same M memory will run over and over and over have you spoken to a therapist at all or anyone that can help do they take help what do what take a penny away or bring him back I think it's a process that you have to go through uh it's a pain that you just have to learn with it's like having a handicap uh you just have to learn to deal with there are people today that live pretty good without hand or food or food uh wish at first or they get imputated and they have to rehab to deal with you've um you've been an inspiration your whole life your whole life to so many people um you now say that um Kobe is your inspir ation and he's he's the reason why motivation and your motivation yeah and he's the reason why you are striving he's the mountain he's pushing you up a new Mountain in your career in this chapter of your career and I'm really really looking forward to seeing this season of your career play out yeah I hope I'll be able to do it but I just have to get out there and find out Francis we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest so the last guest has left a question for you and they don't know who they're
leaving the question for okay the question is here when did you last realize that you had it all wrong when my boy pass away that was a moment that I realized that everything I mean everything that's been my reason for fighting uh fall apart that was a moment that I feel that I really feel like I feel like a failure you felt like a failure yeah I feel power I I just feel like I could have done something just that Francis um I have to say a huge thank you I have to say a big thank you and I'm not just saying thank you for me but um ever since I heard your story that that time in Paris when we're in that hotel you you put my life in perspective Ive you gave me gratitude that I probably didn't have to the same extent before because you've been through an incredible journey and throughout that whole journey you've got this perspective for life where you understand more than I ever did what's important things like family things like principles you've understood that more than I did and you also having gone through that entire journey I didn't hear you feeling pitiful complaining about the struggles you'd been through and I reflect on the life that I've lived and the things that I'd dwelled on and I thought oh my God this guy has walked out of a really really dire situation and built this the most incredible life he's climbed to the top of the mountain and it's funny because when you climb to those the top of those mountains you get there alone what you don't ever get to see is that you've actually brought millions of people there too because you've inspired them and you've shown them proven that they have no reason why they can't to if Francis could if Francis could go from Cameroon on that Journey Through the Sahara Desert he tried to climb the fence couldn't get over the fence then went through the Sea on the boat from Spain to Paris from Paris to the USA to the top of the mountain to beating Tyson
Fury there is absolutely nothing that I can't do yeah I um I think so I think there's a lot we we set ourself for we set a lot of limit of ourself uh by just like oh it's not possible um which again we don't know what's possible or not um but staying there thinking of what's possible or not does help actions help and sometime you try you fail it's okay you stand you stand back up pick your reset start again and then until you make it and then once you you you really make it and I'm like oh he good he's a genius like how did he know that this will work he didn't know anything just keep trying just refused to give up it's just like that and it's a some it's something that um you know because at some point like I feel like um I need to succeed in order to prove everybody that was doubting at me uh to prove them wrong because even like coming from where I came from having the idea of boxing bro he was the worst thing that it worst dream that you could have have like everybody nobody believe in me in in it in the dream not in me but just in the dream like it's not possible we can't came come from where we come we are uh to get there it's not possible it's not mean for us find something that is around us and get S you know like really thought I was losing it basically like when I let um my little job in the village like say go to the city I was 22 years old and I I saw my motorcycle like okay go to the store and buy gloves and stuff that I'm doing boxing D like okay this how this guy has got to the uh top level of craziness what the what the hell is this you know and uh everybody doubt it I mean even my mom say like you're my son I always stand by your side even when you're losing it like now like okay at least I know that you know but on one day he happened I made it and I'm like wow he's a genius how do you know that is going to work I didn't know just keep doing it you know so whatever you have we can keep trying it might work might not but at least you will be in peace with yourself knowing that you have given it all I think it's the most important people are so afraid to fail that they don't even try and I think that's really that's the failure
from not taking action the failure is not actually uh the fact that you you are not Su you don't succeed in whatever you do failure is not taking action it's not even trying that's why you really fair Francis thank you thank you thank you so much hly it's the the most amazing honor and you're such an incredible person on an on and off camera you're such a wonderful human being but you're just the most tremendous inspiration I've interviewed three 400 people but I've never ever encountered a story as you you do that a lot yeah interviewing people as heroic as yours so I rather I than interviewing people thank you [Music] [Music]