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it feels like you've lived an impossible life but with it came over I just needed to be able to look at myself and not hate myself the first black man to become editor-in-chief of British Vogue one of the fashion Industries biggest names he's single-handedly how's your father know he would have slit your throat I grew up petrified of him each day I was being told you're going to be a lawyer or a doctor I knew that wasn't going to happen at the age of 13 I came from another country 16 I was modeling 18 I was an editor it was quite fast work was everything for me there was this notion that women of color uncovers don't sell I knew I would need to do something about it I didn't just create a magazine that looked good but it's so financially successful I was just so consumed with work and work was where I felt like an imposter really I mean I never look at anything I've done and think this is amazing I wouldn't sleep that leads you to drinking and that leads you to drugs you always have to fight but that fight comes at a cost I woke up one day and I saw these black markings in my vision I was so scared I knew after that that I had to change my life you sit here as one of the most successful people in your industry what would 51 year old Edward say to 18 year old Edward the one regret I do have is before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode [Music] it feels like you've lived and traveled an impossible life you sit here as one of the most successful people in your industry but when I read about your earliest context that's why I use the word impossible can you give me the information I need to know to understand how the man that sits in front of me today got here and I'm referring to that early information
the context that molded you into the man you are today thank you for having me um so as you read in the book I grew I was born in a city called takoradi in Ghana West Africa my dad was in the Army he was a major um my mother was the seamstress and we lived on a military base in the town so already there was that was a weird um way of growing up where you are in a town but you're not in the town you're on the military base with its own sets of rules and and traditions so that's where I was and my mother was a seamstress and I grew up in love with clothes in love with my mother and in love with clothes and I was always with her you know when her customers came in and my mother had was one of those rare women who had their own business you know in the 70s in Africa she had anatellier with about 40 women so I'd spent days just really helping her fit women into clothes and you know little African boys standing around the corner listening to the gossip being sued away but I always say that's when I developed my love for women all women because you know my mother's friends my aunts we're all Bodacious women of different sizes big women if you you know if you want to put it that way but they were just beautiful and vivacious and alive so really that was that was how um I grew up in Ghana I mean you know I was always a sickly child so I would always be with my mother a lot and I really learned about sort of women and what really makes them tick you know I always say I can tell when a woman is happy and addressed by the flick of a wrist or a little Winds of the of the nose and so my mother was a really great influence I didn't know anything about fashion but I had an aunt who had a salon called Dolly dots and she was a hairdresser and that was like paradise for me and it was there that I discovered magazines there was a magazine called ebony which
is an American magazine that you'd get every month another one called jet and another one called time and I would literally devour those pages and yeah I was I was really happy it was a really happy childhood and then we had to move to London because there was a military coup and my dad from one day to the next had to leave so that was the next chapter really you were the fifth of six six children and the the figure in that equation that wasn't mentioned is your father in your book you talk a lot about the fear you had of your father growing up can you tell me how that shaped you as a Young Man I mean my father was a military man he was in the peace corpse from Ghana so they spent ages sort of you know for creating peace in like places like Liberia and the Middle East and he was there that he wasn't but we were petrified of him um when he was around you wouldn't play outside you know he expected us all to be home studying and he was very authoritarian very African very strict so yes I was always very scared and you know I was sort of a creative child always drawing illustrations of drawing women all the time and that and I'll hear you know your dad's coming and I'll just rip them out because I was literally in fear of him and um my dad had to sleep when we laugh about it now but when he got angry it wasn't just with it would start with one and then the anger will descend to to me essentially number five because my sister wasn't born then and um yeah he was very terrifying to me in all aspects but then my mother was just the most creative most you know incredibly warm motherhood literally sort of you know here's the paper here's the pen you know come in the room there's this lady so so her into the dress zip her up so I it was very weird having my dad who was not artistic in any way but so disciplined you know and my mother who was just a creative and it's really funny because now I am literally both I am so
disciplined in my work so disciplined there on time and then also so creative on the other hand so I got something from both but yes in those early years my dad was a source of Terror to me what impact did that have on you when you look back now in hindsight I look I do this sometimes with my parents I look back and go For Better or For Worse this parent shape me accidentally for you know in this way it might have created um I had a guest on this podcast called Tim Grover who trained Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and he says at that young age we developed both our bright side and our dark side and sometimes the same incident can give us both of our it can give us our Brilliance and it can also give us our you know things we struggle with the most what Dark Side did you inherit from that earlier upbringing I mean I think what I inherited from that that period was just this this fear overriding fear that never leaves you a sense that I was never good enough a sense that I had to hide any form of Brilliance because looking at those early drawings that I did they're not far removed from what I do now but it was just like don't show how brilliant you are don't show how good you are hide it hide it were you burning the drawings I heard you ripping them up burning whatever I had to do so so I can't fathom that yeah but can you as a creative child can you imagine that's your calling but you don't even know at that age that this is what you're meant to do but you just know it just felt like something that was wrong so I've spent a lot of years just really loving what I do you know loving the fashion industry but at the same time thinking there's something wrong with that because while all this was going on I was being sort of each day I was being told you're going to be a lawyer or a doctor oh an engineer so to me those were the Great careers that you you needed this was a great career for an African
Child for an African parent that was it a doctor a lawyer or an engineer so I always felt sometimes even in the fashion industry when I was younger that I'm not really doing what I'm supposed to be doing you know if I was the doctor my dad would be so proud and you know I carried that with me for years until you know I had to deal with it yeah the parents her parents shaped us without really realizing you know someone said there's no real book to be in a parent so you know they learn as they're going along and my dad you know he was a young man and yeah in the later years things got better maybe so you end up moving to the UK sort of around 13 years old roughly um when you come here you experience racism for the first time it's it's an interesting thing to experience that racism like your teen years because you don't even understand the concept of racism and tell me about that yeah I mean you know um as I said before I grew up in Ghana you know my early years where everything is possible the doctors are black the president's black the lawyers black everybody's black every profession and then one day we're on a plane to England me and my siblings because my dad had gone ahead and my mother had to stay behind we arrive at Gatwick Airport and we're detained because we didn't really have the right papers you know before laid the Lord down you could come to England from any Commonwealth country without a Visa but we didn't realize she stopped it sort of a month before so we came anywhere we were detained and I remember looking around the room and saying I'm saying to my brothers oh my God everyone's White and it was the strangest thing I'd ever seen because in Ghana everyone's black and I remember you know we we decamped to the Vauxhall to my aunt's flat and this was you know the year of you know Microsoft's reign and the SAS laws and the Brixton riots and you know be I remember the first time I was stopped on the street by the police with my
brothers because you know teenage black kids they assume you're up to no good and we had to go to school in fox or William Bailey School over the bridge and it was just scary leaving the house and my father was so traumatized by this country you know there was a military man who didn't run a battalion now couldn't work you know had to seek Asylum and we were the lowest of the low at the point even at school I'd remember people would call use words like oh my God they're the boo-boos which means it was the one they used for someone from Africa So Not only was it half I went to an all black school thank God I think my dad knew that the country was so different from anything we knew that he put me in an all black school and to this day I'm so grateful for that because my work later everyone talks about how can you portray black people so beautifully and I'm like that's all I know right but those early years were tough they were tough just a new country a new school and you felt a sense of not being liked as a black person you know so those years were tough and and what impact has that had on you and your work because I think about from a professional standpoint you were hiding and had some sort of Shame and insecurity around your creative expression back in Ghana you come here now and the world once again says you don't belong here yeah you know that that feels and then I even think about you in your book you talk about understanding that you were gay from a very young age that's a third point of you know listen you said in your book about had you had your father known had you expressed that to your father I think the words are used he is he would have slit your throat yeah I can relate [Laughter] I mean you know he would say things like that like oh my God if I knew any gay person if any person into the house I'll slip your throat but my cousin was living there my cousin Michael he was gay so back to your question how did it make me feel yeah like it feels like there was a lot that you were
shielding or being forced to hide from the world you know identity creative expression sexuality um is that an accurate assessment as a young man did you feel like you were did you know that there was things that you were kind of suppressing yeah I mean you know I was I was very shy I was painfully shy you know I I couldn't I couldn't speak up I couldn't sometimes I couldn't even walk into a room if there were people in there was this shyness and I just didn't feel worthy I didn't feel good enough I didn't feel I didn't feel like you know I had the right to to even be who I was doesn't make sense you know I just didn't feel like a wanted you know like I wanted a child really so it wasn't until I was stopped on the train to be a model then things really changed before then I was just the Immigrant kid you know the number five and anybody knows when you're number five nobody's got any time for you child it's a low profile didn't really want you know didn't really want to stand out because that would mean you'll be punished so I think I yeah I led life a lot like that so you were stopped on the train sorry about that nobody stopped me on the train and asked me to be a model I'm still waiting but we'll see you're 16 years old right when they some I'm a guy called Simon Simon Foxton yeah I mean so I was I guess 16. I left Vauxhall Ian Bailey's school I wanted to go to Kingsway Princeton College and I remember saying to my mom oh my God I don't want to wear glasses anymore because I have these huge thick lenses my whole life and I read I was always like reading and I discovered there was something called Contact Lenses can I get a pair you know we didn't have money but she somehow I went to the optician and somehow because my you know my vision is so bad it's always been sort of in a high 10 minus nines minus ten they gave me contact lenses
the really hard ones and if anybody remembers and I yeah a week later I was on the train you know going to from Hammersmith to college and I was stopped by uh gentleman who was turned out to be one of the biggest fashion editors in the country to be a model and I didn't even know what modeling was and I remember you know going home and telling my mother and she's like no way are you going into that industry with those people I didn't even know what those people meant but I think years later I think she made gay people and of course I found out later Simon was gay and the whole industry was gay by the time I was like but you know I wore her down I wore her down I wore her then eventually she called him Simon and I went on my first photo shoot and then again I was stopped by a model agents and I got an agent and sort of my love for the industry really begun from there what about your dad did he know you were I was hiding it my mother and I were hiding it my mother was so good I remember the first job she'd go with me you know to cast things and on my shoot sometimes because I was 16. you know I was a baby and then she really trusted Simon Foxton so then you know Simon would look after me and we kept it all from my dad I had a sister who was again stopped in Canada by a famous model agent John Casablancas to be a model and my dad was no way you're not doing this so somehow in the back of my head he wasn't going to stop me fine so yeah I was pretending to go to school when I was going to cost things I was pretending to go to school when I was going to shoot so it's very Cloak and Dagger but my mother and I was fun that was your I guess your introduction to that that world right yes fashion modeling yeah pivotal I mean I remember the the first day I walked onto the photo shoot I think was the Pepe jeans I talked about it and I looked around the room and I saw the photography I saw lights I saw you know styling I saw a world where everybody seemed so happy so collaborative and in that moment I
knew that I wanted to be in this world in that the second I walked in and I also knew that it wouldn't be as a model in front of the camera that I would be something else I didn't I didn't know anything about the industry also don't forget when our parents came over from you know the Commonwealth they didn't know what media was you know if you say to my dad I'm going to be a journalist and be like what you know there was a practical jobs that we talked about so I don't really blame my dad now that I'm older he just wanted me to have something that was Secure but try telling a 16 or 17 year old who's discovered a world where they they belong to turn back to be a lawyer I knew that wasn't going to happen but if you went anyway to the university I did for him for my dad but the brilliant thing about going to University was I was doing all these things and I was you know I was establishing myself as the models I had pictures in magazines and I worked on shows and I thought you know I could do this side by side it wasn't until I got to go through this University and I remember I went for three months and one of my lecturers literally was like okay so what do you do outside of here and I explained what I've been doing I'd also been working with a magazine called ID as you know sort of interning I mean I was like so in love with this world I was a I was a College I was modeling I was whatever I could do and I remember the teacher saying to me you know what you're doing now is what most of our students want would like to do when they leave so yeah just follow it and I never went back but then when I dropped out I was also offered a job as a fashion director for ID magazine when I was 18. did you tell your dad you dropped out I remember telling my mum I was dropping out of University and I didn't speak to her for two years so good to speak to you I remember you know one day coming home and my dad was like
how's University and something just said you know you can't lie and you can't lie to him anymore so I said you know what Dad I've been working you know as a model I've been working at ID magazine I haven't really been going to University and he was Furious he threw my things out the window my clothes out the window and I remember picking them up and thinking I am never coming back here and funny enough that's one of that's what propels me because sometimes I have dreams where I've gone back home because things didn't work out so I said hey I remember saying to myself I am never coming back to this house with my tail between my legs I'm never coming back and um the same day I went into ID magazine and the fashion director Beth Summers was leaving and she said you're taking over he throws all of your stuff there's so much so much to unpack there he kicks you out the family home yeah and you in your head you go now I have no plan B it's no plan a or plan a nothing sounds great but that also sounds like that's terrified and fear as a driving force can be a little bit unhealthy right this this sort of fear of going back I can relate to that as well because a similar situation call my mum dropping at University she goes don't talk to me or the family until you go back so I have two years of no plan B it's forward and that's that's wonderful yes for achieving great things but also it can cause in my case severe workaholism because you're driven by fear are you driven or are you dragged driven and direct basically all I know and I mean you started any anybody who started an industry at a young age will tell you that you're just driven you're driven I didn't even know what I was heading towards all I knew is that I was a workaholic I would do anything that was needed to be done I wouldn't sleep I wouldn't sleep if I had to return you know close from East London to West London I'd walk it didn't matter and you you're also shaped by certain people around you at the time I mean I had great mentors you know Terry and
Tricia Jones who owned ID magazine were really supportive of me and you know I also had Simon Foxton I always say to people I couldn't have succeeded if I didn't have great people around me I was so lucky to have not only the best people in the industry but also people who are caring had I been on my own out there in the world I don't know what would have happened I had Judy blame who said you know I've just got a new house come and stay with me rent free however you know I was 18. come and stay with me rent free I had you know my editors would just give me money like okay you're working so hard here's 10 pounds for your lunch I was so lucky that's why it's so important for me to Mentor young people it's so important for young people to have mentors because had I not been looked after I don't know where I would be and also I had this work ethic from my dad and my mother coupled with a with a fear of going back home it was just forward forward motion were you were you running towards something or running away from something both I was running away from a life that had proven too difficult you know as you said you know black young gay you know all these intersections I could call it today so I really wasn't fitting at home and I was just I don't know what I was hurtling towards but I just knew that work would get me there that my family wouldn't get me there you know but work somehow would get me and I didn't know where I was going was it a distraction work was everything for me work meant everything work was when I was happiest work was when I was saddest work was when I felt like myself work was where I felt like an imposter it's almost like every emotion you have in a family um what do you call it in the family dynamic I had at work and it goes back to being in an industry from a very young age from from 16 don't forget the age of 13 I came from another
country 16 I was modeling 18 I was an editor so the Imposter Central not fair and and I look back at my journey now and you know writing the book it's like it was quite fast it was quite a fast Ascent Maybe but with it came over you know you didn't speak to your father for another 15 years following that day that he chucked you out the house did you also sort of reject the family yes and work became as you describe it there you're a new family yeah yeah I rejected my family I thought they could have done more to help me um I had a baby sister who's now my agent and she was she didn't understand well from one day to the next I left I was seeing my family list and I embraced a whole new world I mean in this world I was Edward I was I was I was beautiful I was shiny um that's the word that I hate that I was exotic back then and it felt like this is where I needed to be but underneath I was I was a mess I was the same insecure little boy hiding from my father but because I was in a position of power I had to I had to cover up the shyness and essentially grow up again grow up super fast you describe yourself as being lucky [Music] but I I'm not sure I necessarily agree because most people don't open up their home to someone they don't give them money when they need it they don't bring them in just because they are 18 and young so if you were to tell me how you created that look why people were pulling you up why they were giving you the job as fashion director at 18 years old why they were letting you in their home why was that I mean I always thought it was luck I always thought I was in the right place at the right time I'd met the right people but I had learned later on of course that I must have had something In The Raw I must have had some a raw
talent I must have had some kind of a raw Vision something that people wanted to help hone because had I not had these people I don't I would never have known how to research a great shoot or how to write a great you know how to write a great story I had people I I think they must have I must have been so so sort of wide-eyed and innocent that everybody wanted to help me everybody wanted to help me win but I also know that you do that with people for me now I do that with people I see have a certain Talent a certain Raw Talent so I think now it's not down to luck you know luck you know luck will get you through the door but something has to sustain you but in those early days I was so grateful you know for all these people who thought I had something special and my mind even working ID when I was so young I mean I didn't have an assistant so I would literally work on the cover shoot style it find a photographer I would write all the shopping pages I would work on layouts I would shoot Fashion Stories I would write designer interviews it was like a one-man Army and I didn't realize that I was soaking in I was soaking in an industry I was soaking in really I mean you know everything I do in my job now comes from those days but there I was in sort of a magazine for Young People by young people and I was learning my craft and it was exciting every day I didn't want to go to I didn't want to sleep I didn't want to sleep but I was definitely a workaholic you know work meant everything to me and if something went wrong in work I'll just collapse and not know how to handle it doesn't make sense because it was so closely linked to your right sense of self identity yeah that again can be unhealthy right pardon oh my God I talk about imposter syndrome syndrome and then and then your mind is saying to you you're not meant to be here you're this little African boy who Do You Think You Are and you're trying to work I mean I know
a lot of young people you know speak to a lot of young people today and when and when they hear that I suffer from imposter syndrome they can't believe it I'm like that's just part of life it never goes away you learn where to put it like I know that I've done this long enough to know that you know what I do is okay on a good day but yes it was quite difficult those early days so that leads you to drinking and that leads you to going out just the numb your insecurities and your fears do you think you could have gotten here without your imposter syndrome if you didn't feel like in a quote-unquote imposter would you be saying now no way I always say had I not had my imposter syndrome had I not had the need to be better I mean I never look at anything I've done and think this is amazing I'm always no I'm like how can I do better how can I make this better how can I make this issue better how can I make this better and that's really what's Driven me over these years even when an issue comes out of British book I don't look at it until two months later because I will literally see all the mistakes and and that's something I learned from from back then so my insecurities really that that's what drove me that's what kept driving me not the successes it's the fact that think this wasn't good enough or that wasn't good enough or this could be better but I got to a point where I went okay you can you can let that go for now and yeah see things from a different angle but yeah my imposter syndrome definitely propelled me if you if you have that where you're looking at your work and you always are self-critical of it and you're always thinking about how you could have done it better how were you happy in the moment because that sounds like you're kind of deferring your enoughness the feeling that I'm enough and it's good enough and everything's fine off into the future behind the next goal so how do you become at that stage in your life how are you are you happy in the moment I mean you know everyone says why this sense of insecurity what you have to
remember is I was in an incredible home and I lost it an incredible country lost it an Incredible family lost it went into a gay scene that was so it was so different to what I expected so lost that so for me it's there's always a sense of loss that I had to overcome does that make sense power makes perfect sense you know I had to belong somewhere I never felt I really belonged anywhere and that really was the factor sitting here 50 years old you know I've been able to deal with my My Demons you know through yeah through work through therapy whatever you want to call it so I'm a different person now but I'm still that same I still have those feelings of of yeah you just have to make it as best as it can be but now not detrimental to my health not detrimental to my mental health but as a young person you don't think of that you just you just have to move forward and you have to be the best you can be whatever that is you have to move forward you start that treadmill at 18 years old which is much earlier than a lot of people started as fashion director of this magazine you start moving forward you work you you don't sleep you give everything to to it and at some point it tends to be the case when I speak to these incredible people that there's a moment where you go where am I how did I get here and I need to I need to change something was there a moment in your life where you realize that you you know all this running was maybe just a little too much running and you had to stop for a second and take a moment yeah I remember sort of around 2002 I mean I've been in the industry for so long I was creating fashion shows for the best designers in the world I was flying every day or every few days to a different country you know living the life as they call it but I was always I was also the most miserable I'd ever been I would be in a room surrounded by lots of people who feel really lonely there was a sense of loneliness that was sort of creeping
into my life every day and there's this saying that you can be in a room surrounded by thousands of people and be lonely but that kept getting stronger and stronger so I started drinking a lot and I started um sort of going out a lot you know recreational drugs and one day I was supposed to go to Italy to work on a show um a big show for designers called Dolce Cabana and I had a party and I lost my passport and I was supposed to be there on day one and by the time I got my passport back it was day four I literally went to the American I went to the British Embassy to get my passport with a bottle of vodka in my hands you're joking yes which I put through the security thinking there was nothing wrong but I remember getting to Milan and literally breaking down and calling a friend and said I think I'm done I think I'm done with with drinking I think I'm done and um I became sober for the next 14 years or so I knew my life had to change I moved from London to New York to be away from everyone and that's what I did but my career was totally unaffected that the people who have addictions can be functioning so my career was at the top you know at the time and I could have just carried on but I just knew that life had to change I just knew I had to develop some kind of spirituality I just I just needed to be able to look at myself and not you know hate myself hate myself yeah I hate myself um you know work was always great but like I said behind the curtains the the insecurities the loneliness that a lot of people a lot of High Achievers feel you know when you don't have a partner when you don't have a family to go back to you're literally a lone wolf with a lot of friends everything in life has a cost in the cost of being dragged or driven by success is often something has to Fall by the wayside yes and for so many successful people that is social connections and there's all these other things that make life quote unquote
balanced um because you know in the moment those things seem disposable when you're so focused and driven and you know running away from where you've come from or getting to where you're going um and it seems like such a recurring theme that I experienced what were the symptoms you should you said the word creeping creeping feelings of like loneliness or whatever you know depression whatever it was what were the the signals the signs of that like that's what I really want to get to because there'll be someone listening to this now that it might just be creeping like a frog in a frying pan slowly heating up what were those signals or signs in your life the signals were like you know not not really sleeping yeah not really never engaging with people on a one-to-one always being better with with crowds of people around avoidance you know avoiding certain situations certain people who are quote unquote good for you um avoiding people who you really Loved Before and who were really kind to you all of a sudden avoiding them for a new group of shiny people um and I spent watching you know endless amounts of TV but then realizing for the past six hours you can't you can't even remember what you've been watching yeah staring at the screen but the mind and a mind that wouldn't stop no meditation involved no just a mind that was working overtime and what was it feeling like it's a feeling of emptiness I can describe that feeling um now when I meditate I'm like oh so that's the feeling but it's a feeling of emptiness the feeling of loneliness is really how I describe it disconnectedness disconnected from everything and everyone's telling you how brilliant you are you have the magazine covers I mean I remember once at one month I look I went to the newsstands I had the cover of American Vogue Italian Vogue vanity American Vanity Fair ID magazine and and feeling empty and people saying oh my God look at what you've achieved and just just want and also wanting to destroy it
really wanted to destroy whatever Talent there was wanting to destroy it not really caring not really taking care of it I mean now I know that when you're given a talent I don't know where that comes from you have to protect it you have to nurture it you have to but when you're young in your 20s and you have money and and jobs are coming to you you just don't you don't see the value so what changed at that moment in your life what changed you gave up the alcohol you describe yourself with that point and I I went into AAA where alcoholics oh my God I learned to do service with homeless people in AAA it's a leveler so I'll you know you do service with homeless people you'd go for lunch with people from all walks of life don't forget I've been in this industry since 18 and I hadn't stepped out of it the only people I knew were actors or musicians I hadn't stepped out of this but meeting real everyday regular people that really helped me and also doing service you know one day you make tea um I had to spawn C's so you know esponces you know someone who wants to to not drink and change their life so you're someone's in a Way Mentor I had you know a sponsor but I was really in the program and that really gave me a spiritual side to be able to to deal with the world and even you know to have a relationship with you know married now like I said I've been in a relationship now for 21 years but had I not taken that step had I not woken up and thought I need my life to be different I don't know what I'll be today because the party moves very fast you know the train moves very fast and a lot of people in the fashion industry don't get the chance to step back and you know reevaluate you just go it's just like yeah you could go from party to party and it would be okay but I just knew that um coming from where I came from that I needed to change my life going from party to party and it will be okay that almost seems like a bit of a metaphor for how a lot of people are
living their lives even outside of the fashion industry going from job to job lawyer to senior lawyer to partner at the law firm without really having that moment to step back and say who am I and how did I get here and do I belong here and do I feel okay I know the external world's telling me I've done well but that does that match with how I feel inside yeah I mean it's like you have to know what you feel inside and a lot of times too many people young people are doing what they think other people want them to do oh you're great you'll be good at this you should ask for this job sometimes you have to ask yourself do I want that that's what I did everyone says you need to take this campaign you need to work with this designer so I did but did I really want that maybe I didn't but you just do it because people people's expectations of you you know and I did that for years and you know I don't do that anymore but it takes it takes a while to be able to figure that out if you could have had a chat with Edward that 18 year old fashion director at ID magazine and you could you could have just sat down with him and given him a couple of listen right Edward this is what I need to tell you what would 51 year old Edward say to 18 year old Edward about career advice and equipping him for the next couple of years I said don't just give everything to work don't just give everything to work you know find moments for yourself find moments to self-reflect find moments to to I always say I always go back to meditation find moments of self-help because that will carry you much longer you know a lot of people I started out with are not are no longer around so many people along the Wayside decided the industry wasn't for them or was bad for their Mental Health and I just kept going and I would have you know say to my younger self you know what sometimes maybe some some jobs aren't worth it but you know when you're 18 everything is a must isn't it do you think he would have listened no no way we'll just do the same thing all over again
but that's the beauty of Youth isn't it yeah yeah there's some lessons in life that you have to learn for yourself what I wasn't doing I didn't listen to anyone really but um yeah little Edward but you know what's really great about that time that I think about it was like you know I go back to saying you know I was I was I don't know the chosen one or the token whichever you want to see it but I even learned at that age that I needed people like myself around I needed black people around me people of color around me so I you know I became really good friends with a young model Naomi Campbell A young makeup artist Pat McGrath another hairstylist Ben scarf and Patty Wilson and we became our little group in the fashion industry through the 90s and you always need you always need your people why because you just do because there's certain things that you know I was facing that you wouldn't know as a person who wasn't black that Pat would understand that Naomi would understand we were navigate in spaces that you know most black people want and you just need someone to understand when you had a problem someone to understand and help you navigate really so for me those friendships that we had as kids in the early 90s we still so close that we speak every day all of us so you need your tribe you need your tribe and I remember even the day I stopped I stopped drinking I called Pat and I called Naomi and you know they've been so consistent in my life but I had my tribe in an industry that wasn't really for us yeah you stayed at ideas fashion director for a long time 20 something years 20 something years most young people especially these days wouldn't stay in any job staying for two years after six months they're coming to me to say what is my Prospect I'm like I don't even know you but that's when I read that I was like is that correct like you stayed in one job the job you had at 18 for 20 something years but I mean not 20 years
I mean 20 years but I was sort of freelance and still doing the job yeah doing the job but ideas are such a special magazine you know it became like the coolest magazine in the world every model every actor everybody wanted to be a part of it so there was no need for me to live and also I'm also very loyal you know loyalty is so important so everywhere I go I never leave there's something to be said for that though it's rare in the modern world that loyalty to a profession or a craft yeah and if someone is loyal to you I believe in sort of being loyal back no if someone nurtures you you know then you want to be there like I said it replaces the family Dynamic which I didn't have from that do you think that's part of it the why why you've been so loyal is because you're searching for somewhere to belong oh I know that because even when I was at ID um my friends would say I was never alone at my desk each day you know every day you come in there'll be the the hottest actor singer dancer of the moment around my table the next day would be a writer it was like yeah come in come and hang out let's go hang out for the day with Edward and what was that making you feel when there was people around you from an emotional standpoint I mean I'm I'm great with people I love being around people and I always say you know I have a have a husband who is sort of very wants to be on his own introvert and I grew up with five siblings so I don't even know what being on my own it's like I mean now I do but back then the more people around the mall like they gave me energy and creativity I love Creative conversations I love I love being in the moment I love arriving at you know a creative decision so that's that was really my feel yeah Vogue how did that happen Vogue yeah so after ID um in the late 90s I started working for Italian Vogue for the great editor called Franco sazani and Italian Virgo was sort of of all the folks you could say the most creative where you know should give you 30 pages to shoot that was incredible images so you know I did
that for maybe called 10 years I was at Italian verb sort of the main stylist and then I got a call from Anna winter in America to come and work for American Vogue so from Italian Vogue I moved to American Vogue and I was there for working for another for seven years then I got a call damn you do long stints [Laughter] magazine to work with um stuff on the tank here really great editor and I was there for seven years wow you know when you're having fun or when you're enjoying what you do time is of no essence you know like I I would say oh the issue comes out in six months and someone's like that's six months away but for me it was like tomorrow so yes and then one day out of the blue I got a call from Jonathan Newhouse I'm a very great he was you know he owns containers the company that owns Vogue and he said um the editor who was there had been there for 26 years was you know fashioned in this nobody leaves any chance clearly what's leaving and would I come in for an interview so I came in for a couple of interviews um I didn't think I was going to get it because to be honest I thought Vogue wasn't meant for people like me you know I thought Vogue was meant for you know women from a certain background and and I was you know the boy from Napa Grove you know I was gay I was outspoken you know I was good at my job but um yeah I went for an interview and I literally told them you know how to how I would do Vogue for for 2017. and what was that message to make it inclusive to make it diverse you know there was this notion in the fashion industry that black women all women of color on covers don't sell it's been in the industry for as long as I can remember but I saw all these affluent women you know not just black women you know gay women women from you know with working class backgrounds you know Muslim women Aussies British who are British essentially not seeing themselves reflected in the magazine I thought well not only is it
bad but you know it's not good business but I wanted to create a place or a safe place where women could just feel welcomed because I always remember my mother always said to me if you can see it you can be it so I wanted to create um a magazine where you know women of all shapes sizes you know race age social economic background could see themselves reflected and that's all I did I didn't reinvent the the wheel I just thought who are the women out there that I wanted to reach and that's what I did and thank God the world was I mean now diversity is a buzzword right but in 2017 nobody was wanted that on a magazine and I always said you know I knew I'd probably be fired three months in but I also learned at least what I got from my father I would rather be fired for something I believed in than to go in half halfing it and get fired anyway half hours so yeah that's how voke happened and the world was ready when you got that call saying that you were going to take that top job at Vogue how did you feel scared I felt scared on one hand because I knew the type of person I am that I that I wouldn't like I said I wouldn't just go in and try to make do I would need to change everything I also knew that VOC had such a huge I mean folks the best magazine in the world and has such a huge sort of history that I wanted to sort of be a part of it but make it about today and I didn't know if the readers would be ready I mean before I started the job you know there were speculations in the newspaper I mean I got called all kinds of Africa and I got called I got called heaven I heard called it black what was it I had the uh the black one they said it was like going to crafts yeah and the cat one like a whole other breed so already I had that on my shoulders it was really it was a really tough time but I didn't speak I just thought let me just bring out the magazine and when the first issue dropped December 2017 with adjoa on the cover an issue that was dedicated to Great Britain the country that gave me a home the
country that I loved and featured all the best you know um zadie Smith and Naomi Campbell um Sadiq Khan that's the best of Britain the world got it straight away and from that minute the the magazine just went up up up up and we haven't looked back but even I read it so I read about that story of the newspaper when you got the job as the top job at Vogue they said it was like crufts but the cat winning yes racism and then I also recall a story you tell about arriving at Vogue one day and a security lady not letting you in because they thought you were the delivery man yeah and at that point you were oh the editor I've been editor for years and they wouldn't let you in the building yeah I mean it was it was you know I think the woman was hired from God knows where I walked in I walked in and without asking for anything without asking for my party was like loading Bay excuse me what I said you have to use the loading bear and I was like I'm the editor of this magazine but what that's you know obviously what that taught me was never to feel that the work is done never to feel that I'm okay never to feel that I've made it those moments remind me that there's still a lot to do a younger person walking in there would have been paralyzed with fear but I knew how to do something about it and this also happened years ago at a show where they put old-fashion directors in the front row and put me in the second row and I literally was on Twitter the next day I'm not scared fear is not an option for me you know from a young age I've never been scared of fighting for you know what I deserve or fighting for what people from different backgrounds deserve so yes that happened at Vogue you know but it also made me realize that you always have to fight and you can never be complacent even today do you feel like there's people that want to see you fail and that don't want a man of your color and background to be in that role I mean I think you know I mean I've proven myself I mean at the end of the day I didn't
just create a magazine that looked good but also if magazine that was Finance it's so financially successful you know diversity sells I remember taking the job and people saying to me diversity is down Market yes I heard that then I had Oprah Winfrey on the cover wearing the most incredible diamond earrings and it's sold out so every day I continue to sort of um challenge what the idea of Vogue is that an idea of being an editor is but now I look around at all the magazines and and diversity is now a part of part of the media you know having black models on the covers that's no longer a a big deal having issues around you know having gay issues or trans issues it's no longer an issue but in 2017 it was unheard of so it shows how far we've come but there's still a long way to go you thought Edward you fought for your entire life you fought for yourself you fought for others you're fighting for your people um you're doing that every day it's so clear in all your work I was reading also about the black issue You released and how well that sold out where you put all sort of black models throughout this magazine and yeah and that fight again it comes at a cost um and one of the costs that came at was your health yeah I read about the health scare you had can you tell me about that and the doctors linked that back to your lack of sleep and yeah it sounded like some kind of sort of a culmination of fighting a bit too hard if that makes sense I mean you know I was I was even on my way here I was in in the car with my PR and just like you're always fighting you always pushing forward yes basically all those years of um just not sleeping just working over working traveling I woke up one day and I saw these black markings in my in my vision and it turned out that I was uh I was having a detached retina so the retina detach it eventually you know one surgery then he detached again and he detached four times in the same eye and then as all that was happening
um my other eye started so they had to operate unless I've been I think five operations and you know I work with my eyes so can you imagine what that did so that was really harrowing and then also I developed um tinnitus so the hearing I had that oh it's hard to explain you can't explain you can't explain it if I said to you your ears gonna ring you go okay but when your earrings you think you're going crazy yeah you go crazy you think you're going crazy I had it for about 15 days and I can see I you know only 15 days yes it went yeah oh wow and I so I started reading online about it because you're gonna have this for life and then I read about the the psychological impact on your mental health of having it for life can you imagine having that and then having my eyes but what it did teach me you know when you know I didn't work for two years people didn't realize when my whole sort of eye issues were happening didn't work for two years but in the industry you know you can you have so many shoes banked anyway so it looks like you are but I knew after that that I had to change my life that I had to practice self-care that I had to you know work hard but not travel as much not take every job not and British folk came at the right time because it helped you know it meant I'll be in one place a lot I'll be in an office which was also very new because I hadn't been in an office for a while and yes it really helped me turn my life around I mean um such a health nut a purpose-driven man like you that's so in love with his work for your work to be taken because your eyes as you say are Central to what you do so you can't see films TV shoots well what was the the sort of mental health implications of that oh my God I was I was I I was a mess I mean I was I was living in New York at the time anyway and I was saying I saw a a therapist who said I had PTSD because I was so scared of losing my vision it spiraled I mean to all my to my relationship expired into my life I was so scared up and I remember the idea of going blind
wouldn't leave my mind for one second like it wasn't like every day I thought of oh I might go blind once it was every second on my mind I could be happy and I'll go back you're gonna go blind and the mind the brain is so powerful so imagine you're leading your life and then there's this thing running behind your brain You're Gonna Go Blind You're Gonna Go Blind but non-star and it took a lot of therapy to cognitive therapy to help me deal with that because I was convinced not just one eye but to you but then I found it was incredible doctor in New York probably the best in his field and you know my eyes are yeah good now I mean not perfect but at least I can see or partially see I don't know if it was slightly after that but you know we've talked about the incredible impact and inspiration from a very young age that your mother was to you she was everything you've described vivacious she was an entrepreneur she was the the reason why fashion became such an important part of your life as a Young Man during fashion designs under her workstation at work and so on and while she was away visiting Ghana she had a stroke yeah and from her health deteriorated over the coming over the next couple of years in 2016 at 44 years old your mother passed away what impact did that have on your perspective in your life the passing of your mother um oh my God I mean my mother was somebody who wouldn't stop working she was somebody who wouldn't sleep I mean I get all that from her she read I mean my mother didn't even cook because my sisters would cook she was obsessed with beautiful clothes make bringing Beauty in the world but I also watched her you know she didn't eat so well she wouldn't exercise she just wake up and just work so I mean you know my mother was the love of my life and it really made me stop to think I mean you know Strokes are not nothing to you know to be messed with and it runs in my family so that was already a sign to really look after myself but losing my mother really left a void that you know will never be filled but now I don't remember the strange
thing happens when you lose a parent no I don't remember her being ill I just remember that you know that gorgeous creative woman who was so full of life and my mother always thought me not to be scared of anything and yeah all the memories I have of her so great but she also helped me change my life you know yeah she was the love of my life in your words what do you owe to her I owe her everything my God I owe her the love the love of fashion and color and people the the the the the the delving into your imagination the creativity everything that's I create that's beautiful everything you know the love I have of women of all shades and sizes and ages and you know race everything everything good everything good in in my work but also in my life she was the kindest most nurturing human being and that's something I try to do with my staff that's something I try to do in my everyday life sort of you know they used to call me teacher when I was young so I really like teaching the Next Generation and really nurturing them so all that really came from my mother and also empathy you know being able to put yourself in someone's shoes oh that came from her when she after her stroke it was almost 15 years where you describe it as a sort of decline in her in her health [Music] when she did pass away was there any any thoughts of sort of regrets about the this is something I always wonder about my parents because I've still got my parents but I play out the scenario of how I'll feel one day when I've spent all this time working and our relationship you kind of I think I've gone through life thinking my parents will live forever to be honest yeah everyone thinks their parents are going to live forever I say to my friends please make sure you see your parents as much as you can because when they're gone they're gone I still pick up the phone to call my mother and she's not there but I spend as much time as
you can because they're not here forever you think they are and the biggest regret I had is all those years I spent working and traveling and not seeing enough of her and not you know going back to to visit and I was just so consumed with work you know the one regret I do have is I wish I would have spent more time with her but I thought she was going to be around forever so yeah spend as much time as you can with your parents you know build whatever Bridges you can build I know some bridges are impossible but if you can build British to you know do because when they're gone you will miss them are there any did you ever hear from you directly the impact that she had had on your life I mean you know before she had the stroke she saw how well I was doing and you know she would see you know different articles appear in different magazines and she knew that you know she was Africa so she knew that I was financially secure secure enough to give you know to look after the family so for her even though she didn't see me get to this level she knew that you know I was able to buy a place when I was very young and I'm able to sort of look after them and so she saw that and I think she was very proud of that she must have been very proud of you I think she was I hope she was anyway incredible you went to therapy um after she'd passed away what has therapy given you what's the sort of the practical [Music] therapy really gives you the Practical tools to cope with life I I mean I've always had I've always been very good with boundaries like it teaches you boundaries I've always been very good you know when I was a teenager I was I just wanted to do what everybody wanted but then the older I got I mean I was I mean I was so Frosty at Point times anyway okay this is your boundaries it teaches when when you know things are not right you know again I've always had that but it teaches me to be human to be caring to you know certain people in our positions
you know when you're successful sometimes you you discard opinions so fast or you discard people people's ideas so I'm now learning to be a better listener you know all those things that I wasn't when I was growing up you know maybe it's turning 50 as well you know I'm not patient now definitely if I was your who's the closest person to you professionally professionally oh my god oh um who knows you best professionally my sister okay so your sister your younger sister right my sister who was also my agent for 15 years if I asked her what what you're good at because you know you've reached this position where you're the top of your game and what you do from the most incredible start in life to hear now so we talked about your talent but we didn't really figure out in terms of like the specifics of what that Talent is in your in your own words if I was to ask your sister I said what's Edward's Talent what is the thing that he's good at that the peers just can't quite do as well as he can he should ask her what do you think should say um I think she will probably say that I I'm in sort of Perpetual forward motion that I don't take no for an answer probably and that I'll yeah I'll do whatever I can to make to make the best magazine or to make the best picture or to make the best like oh I'll go to the ends of the world to make things happen maybe isn't it difficult for someone who doesn't have that same standard to work with someone like you then because if only you know if I don't care as much about the details as you do yeah but I also think that you know it comes with time doesn't it you know I think you can see Diamonds In The Raw so I don't expect everybody to be like me but I can also see potential and then hopefully you can nurture that potential to its fullest so I don't expect everybody to come in you know sometimes the best the best people you work with are the quiet ones in the back the ones who are not good at in interview situations
but the ones who know who work and our workers and she probably say that I I I'm definitely a worker like I work very hard the standards matter to you very much sir do you sweat the small stuff yes why does that matter the the devil's in the details you know you have to to create on a level that we create you know you can't just say okay everything's fine everything will work out can you work with people that are like that don't sweat the small stuff so long as there are people there who can't sweat the small stuff maybe it's other people's talents or something else but there needs to be a balance it can't just be everybody says sweater small stuff but they also has to be sort of dreamers and creators you know someone said to me once what do you look for when you employ staff and like I said it's not the best interview it's when you're walking towards my office am I happy to see you like what are you bringing to the job so someone comes into my office they're like sweating the small stuff and somebody can just walk in and go I have a big idea and that's what I love about what we do you think you're successful I'm successful uh I'm just at my work but I'm still a work in progress where life is concerned because every day I learned something new about myself I feel like I missed a lot of years growing up you know for years I was always I was always sort of jealous when I saw people who went to University together oh when people were you know we went to University together had all those escapades and I was working but now I realize that everybody has their own path and mine was to yeah to go and be a worker quick one some of you will know that this podcast is now sponsored by the incredible Airbnb I'm a huge user lover and customer of Airbnb every time I go away on a trip whether that's work
related or it's a holiday Airbnb is always my go-to but have you ever considered have you ever thought about making some extra cash to cover some bills or to help pay off a holiday let me explain further perhaps people are coming to your town or city for a music festival for an event or a holiday and you have a spare room why not Airbnb it or your home office is free right now you're working away from home during the week you can Airbnb it honestly the possibilities are endless I've Airbnb one of my Apartments before and it's a great way to make extra cash I'd highly recommend you all to at least check it out that extra space you have that extra room it might be worth more than you think so to find out just how much it's worth search airbnb.co.uk host that's airbnb.co.uk slash host check it out sometimes I ask my friends this because this is the kind of way that I am but if happiness were an ingredients list if it was a recipe that needed certain ingredients in certain quantities for the recipe to be complete is there anything missing currently off your ingredients list that you think if you just had a little bit more of that then maybe you'd be even more fulfilled content happy no it's for me it's more it's more the opposite I'm now like if I don't want to be in a place whether it's dinner or in a job or in a situation I'm out that's what that's the ingredient that I have now that I don't want to spend any life is doing so I don't want to spend any time being in a place where I don't want to be and that came with years and years of you know failures and successes or whatever you call it now I know where I need to be who I want to be with and that's that's the ingredient that's been added I'm 30 now right so I've got your baby there's a 20 about a 20 20 year gap between me and you so my God you're so great oh thank you I mean that means a lot coming from you so thank you what advice would you give me as a 30 year old man right now you know I've got my I've got another 20 years ahead of me it's a different chapter of life I love that piece of advice you said about boundaries and like if I don't want to be there let's let someone down get out of there is there anything else you think that as a 30 year old man
um would equip me to make the next chapter of my life is brilliant I mean don't say don't take no for an answer keep keep doing what you do there'll be naysayers along the way people like oh you can do it like this you can do it like that this this person don't listen to any of that you've already set yourself on a great path manifest it keep moving forward yeah but really don't be distracted by people telling you you can't do this or you can't do that or shouldn't do this once someone again one of the things my mother said to me is when you go into a place any situation and they say you know we do things like this oh things you should say why always have that on your mind why why why does it have to be like this why can't we change so why it's a very important word to have a man how has love changed your life Edward 20 years married now I mean love I never thought I would have love I always thought I'd be like I love those people who sort of career minded people you know where you get to the end of your life and you've achieved everything without a partner then I met you know I like when we were in our 20s I was in my late 20s or since early 20s and part of the reasons why I got certain part of the reasons why I got sober and he has taught me about just being a and being a person being Being Human you know being grounded it's so special really just just the normal things in life but he's also very creative so he tells me when the cover is awful and we fight and I say to him what do you mean this is awful everybody loves this and goes yeah they tell you what you want to hear so he's my my you know my my home you know my safe space and he's just very kind you know took me to be kinder have you learned to express to him what he means to you I think he read the book no he knows he knows what he means to me what does he mean to you without him I wouldn't wait I wouldn't be here I wouldn't even I probably wouldn't even
want to carry on uh doing what I do but he's so excited he's a director so he's also so excited by work and our life and you know we have two puppies so we have a great work-life balance you wouldn't want to be here and I wouldn't want to be here doing what I do you know I'll be like Oh I'm gonna I'm just quitting or that those you know those days when you go home like ah like I can't be bothered to deal with that and he's like yes you will and you'll go back tomorrow and you know just he's really normal and so lovely Edward we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest without not knowing who they're leaving it for and I get to see it when I open the book um and the question that's been left for you by our previous guest who I shot aren't they is if you could be part of any brand or company past or present which would it be and why I mean obviously I go back to first magazine I ever saw was Ebony magazine there was a great woman called Eunice W Johnson Johnson and she was she was the editor's wife she was one of the few black women who would go to Fashion weeks as we call it now and do you know that poor woman they wouldn't lend her the clothes to shoot she had to buy the Couture with her money with her own money to do these fashion shows called ebony Fashion Fair run the deep south of America in the 50s and 60s this woman was so incredible Eunice W Johnson Ebony magazine I would have loved to have been her right hand I would have loved to have gone to the shows with her and fought with her to get I mean what I what I have now you know access to everything is because of women like her so Ebony magazine in the 40s and 50s next to Eunice W Johnson would have been incredible Edward thank you thank you for fighting because by doing so you're laying the foundation and opening doors not just for people in the fashion industry but for people in every industry that come from where you come from that look like you including me because of Role Models like you in our society you're opening
doors for people like me that are coming through in different Industries so that we are accepted enabled and our talents are put first and foremost beyond anything else that might be our skin color our background or our Creed your book is incredible it's a very important book that I think is um thank you it tells a story and as I call it an impossible story of a young kid from Ghana that gets to the very top and becomes the first black editor in British folks history but it's also just such a human Story the struggles that you're very vulnerable and open about um and and the the ultimate sort of Triumph at the end of this story which is I call it the end of the story I mean you've still got a vision board but but as a Triumph that is um impossible but important and generational you're an incredible person thank you for fighting please do keep fighting and I recommend everyone to go and check out this incredible book A Visible man because um it needs to it needs to be a visible book because it's um it certainly had a profound impact on my life so thank you Edward oh thank you for having me and keep on doing what you do I'm gonna I hope you do too thank you Edward [Music] problem with protein powders is they tend to taste a bit it feels like hard work to consume them and then when I got Hills protein powder which by the way is 20 grams of protein and just 105 calories and I tried it for the first time there was this kind of mental confusion that it tastes as good as a milkshake I might buy in the corner shop but it's nutritionally complete and has 20 grams of protein in it and my favorite of all the flavors I've got the chocolate fudge brownie flavor in front of me is The Salted Caramel flavor with a little bit of ice in it it is a dream and I'm training at the moment I'm doing cardiovascular training ahead of soccer AIDS so having protein in my diet especially when I'm incredibly busy is a must-have for me if you're looking for a good protein powder I highly recommend you try this recommended it's my friend Simon she's now obsessed with it and I think if you try it you'll find out why [Music] [Music] you got to the end of this podcast
whenever someone gets to the end of this podcast I feel like I owe them a greater debt of gratitude because that means you listen to the whole thing and hopefully that suggests that you enjoyed it if you are at the end and you enjoyed this podcast could you do me a little bit of a favor and hit that subscribe button that's one of the clearest indicators we have that this episode was a good episode and we look at that on all of the episodes to see which episodes generated the most subscribers thank you so much and I'll see you again next time