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Oh my god, Eddie Hearn. What a guy. There's very few people. No, I'm going to change that. I've never met someone as neurotically obsessed with success and with winning and with accomplishing things and with living a life in constant forward motion as my next guest Eddie Han. And it's remarkable because when you unpack the reasons for that obsession and that dedication to being more and achieving more, there's quite a fragile, vulnerable, insecure story. That's something I've noticed with a lot of my guests. And it often makes me think that the most successful amongst us aren't necessarily choosing to be. Something's happened to them that's left them with no choice. Eddie Han is one of the most notorious sports promoters in the world. He's the king of boxing in this country. He is known for his no contact Twitter page, which I'm sure a lot of you have seen. But what I wanted to do when I sat down with Eddie Hern was to get underneath to get underneath the external sort of braggadocious loud promoter side of him and to find out even in the case of someone like Eddie who is loud, who is successful, who is ambitious, who is a promoter, are the same things true for him that are true for you, the insecurities, the vulnerabilities, the mental health issues, and how much does he really understand himself. My conversation with Eddie was incredibly enlightening, but it also wasn't that surprising. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the D of CEO. I hope nobody is listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. [Music] you've done a ton of interviews, especially over the last couple of weeks, and there's this really consistent theme that I felt in all of the interviews I watched. I watched you at Cambridge, the High Performance podcast, loads of them. And um and then before we came uh started filming today, I had a chat with Frank and he fully grasped on you. No, what he said to me, which I which was also consistent with these interviews, is that you are relentless. And he was telling me he's he's had some um I probably shouldn't say this, but he was telling me he's started having this uh is it night owl
or nightness? Night cuz Eddie will text me in the middle of the night and he went I'll tell you one thing about Eddie. He is relentless. You're what 40 41 41 years old. What's made you that relentless at 41 years old to the point where you're you're uh pastoring your colleagues at 3:00 a.m. in the morning? I don't know really. Um I think when I when I did the book, it was like it was quite a good um sort of counseling session with myself because I wasn't really great at school. I wasn't particularly a hard worker at school. I loved the pound note always. And when I wrote the book, it just I I started writing about my childhood and what it was like growing up and how I was molded. And I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that I love to win. And I'm a Why did you love to win? I don't know. Because with my dad, that's what we did. So when we played cricket, when we played football, when we played table tennis, when we sparred with each other, it was like for me growing up, you weren't, you know, I would come back from a match, say I played cricket, and and he would go to me and actually my mom was the same, and he would say to me, "How many runs did you get today, son?" And I would say, "Oh, no, four. Ah, useless. Come on, next time knock in a 50." Right? It was never, oh well, well done, son. You know, you took part. That's what really matters. That they taught me taking part is completely and utterly irrelevant. You win. And ultimately, sport is how I was brought up. I was brought up on the foundations of sport, the lessons of sport, the winning, the losing, you know, the highs, the lows, but always taught that winning was everything. So, and I'm a failed athlete, you know. I think any kid growing up would love to be a sportsman. I played cricket at a very good level, but I I was never good enough at anything. So, this is the next best thing. But I think if you're not trying to win in life, and win it means something different to everybody. Success means something different to everybody. Some people view success as being able to get their pay
packet on a weekend. you know, be able to, you know, spend time with her family and have enough food on the, you know, make enough money to have food on the table and make sure everything's okay at home and and be happy, you know, and have a happy life with no no stress or no drama. That's success to a lot of people, but people's interpretation of success is very different. And you know, for me, I I I still don't know why I I I I do I know why I do this, but like you say, I I love it. I guess that's what it comes down to. A passion for what you do. And I don't know what the passion is. Is it the passion that I love the sport of boxing? Is it the passion that I want to succeed against, you know, and be bigger than my dad? I think that's a big part of it as well. Or is it just that I love to win? Or is it that I'm a bit sick in the head? Maybe all of them. the sick in the head point. I want to play with that idea a little bit. Um I I write I I wrote in my book actually we have the same publisher. I wrote in my book that the thing that invalidates you when you're younger becomes the thing you seek validation from when you're older. And what I meant by that is like in my childhood because we didn't have money um and I was this black kid in a school of 1500 white kids. Everything that we didn't have became the things that I chased when I was older or the thing that made me feel somewhat invalid sometimes when I was a kid. Like you're saying about your dad saying, "Oh, you you lost today. became the thing that I would seek validation from as as a as an adult. And I wondered if that resonated with you at all. I mean like well I had a different background. I mean my dad was poor became rich and I was born. So I' I've said before it's not like when when you talk about generational wealth. We didn't have generational wealth. Um I had a dad who was from Dagnham was from a council estate. His dad was a bus driver. And then I grew up in this sort of neuvo world where this bloke had made his money and he was you I take the mickey out of him. I suppose he was a bit of a chav, you know, he was like from Dagnum and all of a sudden he's got Ferraris and big cars and we used to have a white
limo and a black limo that would drive like the snooker players around and the fighters around and I was horrible. I was obnoxious. Imagine like a 14, 15 year old kid hanging around with Eubank and Naz and then you're in a limo with your mates going up to London or to Romford for a night out. I mean, I'll look back and just cringe. But mine was different, you know, and and I guess when it comes down to it and, you know, again, from the book and speaking and speaking to people like Frank Lampard, he went to my school. Um, he was in the year above me. At my school, I was Barry Hearn's son and Frank Lampard was Frank Lampard's son. You know, his dad played for West Ham. He was and it's a different kind of drive if you can make it flow in the right way. You know, when you're talking about sort of mindset and and and hustle where all of a sudden I think so many people with successful parents end up just doing okay, you know, but how do you go beyond that? How do you outperform everything that he done? And and I will and I feel like I've done that in many ways, but I will never be able to outperform the fact that he came from nothing. My friends are my friend is in a very similar position. you. If I said my friend's name, you'd know the guy. His dad is a multi-billionaire. I know you know him because I've seen you with him before actually in New York. But um his dad is a multi-billionaire and he grew up with living in the shadow and his dad was the same. And I had a conversation with him and he said um it was I was always trying to be better than my dad. He is now a billionaire himself of his own doing. Um but it's just it's fascinating that and his dad sounds very similar to what your dad sounds where his dad was tough on him. tough on him. I think they're I think they're tough on you because they don't want you to be that spoiled kid. I mean, you always want to um spoil your kids, you know. You want to give them the great Even now, you know, I got two daughters. I love to spoil. I work hard so I can give them a great life, but I just want them to understand manners, respect, and discipline. These are the three most important things. And he would make sure that I would
understand that even by having me working, you know, giving me a clout every now and again, you know, trying to keep because I it must have been frustrating for him because I was probably all the things that he resented when he was growing up, you know, the rich kid. Oh, with a with parents who had got big house and cars and and I would have hated me at school, you know, but he would have looked at me and that's why he was so disciplined with me and I was in his slipstream growing up. So I would sit, you know, we're here now. That's that was my house over there. So I he would get home from work if he was in the country, you know, he would always go out and give me a game of football or cricket and then he would go in the office all night on the phone and I would have dinner and I would just sit in the office. You know, I might have a ball just throwing up in the air, but I would some subconsciously listen to the arguments and, you know, him losing his temper and and just listen, not because I wanted to learn, just because I was there. And you're you're talking there about the sacrifice of his success which is one of them as you've highlighted is less time with your family. You are relentless. Um everybody says that. What is the the cost of being a relentless person? You have to be incredibly selfish. You have to, you know, for for me, family is the most important thing, but I have to be brutally honest and say I don't let even family get in the way of things that I have to do, you know, and that that can make you an [ __ ] and it can make you sound terrible, but I just don't know any way around it. There is no way you can be the perfect husband or the perfect father and run a successful business or, you know, be a, you know, a relentless operator. It's impossible because I know because I try to balance both. But when you're flying back from America from a show and you land at 7:00 in the morning and then you go to Manchester for a press conference and then you come home and you just make it to pick him up from school and then you get back and they say, "Dad, dad, let's go over to park and you're just absolutely on empty and your phone's going and you're trying to do another deal and you know, you're pushing the swing and you're going like this trying
to send a message at the same time. It's impossible." You know, listen, I know cuz sometimes my my eldest daughter is old enough to know, "Dad, please get off the phone." And that's that kills me because that's that's bad to hear, you know? I'm like, "Okay, okay." But then 30 seconds later, I'm back just having a look down because it's a lifestyle, you know, and it's impossible to be great at anything without making sacrifices. You know, it doesn't matter if you're a fighter, if you're a sportsman. You speak to all successful people, you can't be everything. It's impossible, you know, and and but what you don't want to do is you don't want to disregard your obligations, your family obligations, because they are extremely important. But you also need a wife or a partner who's understanding enough to say, "This is what I know what he's like. He won't stop." And that's why when Frank talks about 3:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m., that's because a lot of the time I'm sort of making up for the hour or two that I've lost out playing with the kids. So I'll put them to sleep. They'll go to sleep at 9, half 9, you know, chill out with a wife for an hour, she'll go to sleep and then I'm up. And now with the growth in America, it means that at 4:00 p.m. 5:00 p.m. the West Coast wakes up. So I can't go to bed. I can't disappear when it gets to 11 a.m. or on the West Coast or or midday on the West Coast because they want to speak to me and we want to do business. I am uh much earlier in my career maybe I know 15 years earlier in my career and um I've struggled with romantic love for the very same reason that for the last decade I've like slept in the office multiple weekends I've been obsessed um I would basically sacrifice everything and there became this moment in my life where I think it was maybe the day that someone tried to buy the company and I thought about what I'd spend it on and I remember going home and I swear on my mother's life I went on right move and auto trader at the same I had two tabs open and I'm like the lamb no that's that's that that always follows the Lamborghini. So I was looking at this Lamborghini and this mansion in the countryside and then I thought if I buy these things I'm
trading like this purpose I have this job this you know for for this Lamborghini and this mansion and it felt really really empty and then I thought but Steve you know when you were 18 and you were broke and you had no money 18-year-old Steve said wrote in your diary this is why it's called the driver that you wanted the sports car the million before you were 25 this was what we did it for and then it threw my head into this like confusion it's like if if if it's not that if that's going to make me feel empty. They call it like um gold medal depression where Michael Phelps won all the medals and then got depressed. Um then what's it all for? And and then I thought and then also when does it all end? Like when does it end? Well, it doesn't end because and actually you you're always searching. This is this is a problem and something you have to be careful of because when you are trying to succeed and when you're trying to become great actually the great people they never feel content with achievement and I'm very much like that. Frank Lampard again going back to him he said that when he won the Champions League he's always dreamed of winning the Champions League and he stood there with a trophy and he felt nothing. I mean, he felt happy, but definitely not content. Definitely not I've cracked it. That might go back to the sickness, you know, that we talked about earlier. And when we talk about sickness, I mean, not probably not medically sick, but sick in the head a little bit to a point where I get it all the time. You know, we say that, you know, we wanted to do, you know, when when AJ turned pro, we wanted him to be the world heavyweight champion. You know, he won that. Great. We was in the ring after jumping up and down. As soon as we got out of the ring the Yeah. And then it's like, okay, we want to do something. You know, we got the Klitschko fight. Okay. You go through at 90,000 at Wembley. You stand there, everyone that was at the event tells you it's the greatest sporting occasion they've ever been to. How do you know? Uh, at the time, amazing in the ring, amazing, you know, and then not even the
day after. It's I I never I never go out really and I never drink really after a show because that's probably, you know, depressed is the wrong word, but you I go back, you know, I finish the media obligations 2 3:00 in the morning, go back to the hotel, and that is when I'll sit there, get into bed, and then obviously you can't sleep because the buzz and the adrenaline, and that's when you just feel a little bit low and empty is that okay, it's over. Same with what you talk about with Phelps. It's the highs versus the lows. You can't just experience the highs and then be happy with the lows. So, you want more and more and more and more. And I I'm my I'm my own biggest critic and I'm also very pessimistic, which is strange to a lot of people, but I kind of use it to play tricks on myself to keep myself driven. So, when I do something or when I've planned something, I always say to myself, there's going to be problems. It's I think it's going to go wrong. I doubt this will happen. You know, I don't know why I do it, but it just helps me to battle away to overcome everything to get to the place. And then when I achieve something which others might think is great, I say to myself, that's nothing. You got a long way to go. Because I'm scared of sitting back, you know, with the the cigar on the beach and going, I've cracked it. You can't touch me. You know, and we got to a position with UK boxing where, you know, we are virtually untouchable, but I just don't want to be that guy who takes the foot off the gas. I want to bang every single nail in the coffin, you know, and then move on to another market and another market and another market. But you do get the the worry with that mindset is you may look back when you're 80 or 90 and go, "Wow, you know, look at everything you've done. You never really enjoyed it, did you? I mean, I love what I do, but you probably should savor it a little bit more than you do." But again, it goes back to that mindset of being so driven. You want the next It's a drug. Success is a drug. But you got to be careful that it doesn't turn you into an [ __ ] at the same time because how many successful people do you know? Absolute [ __ ] [ __ ] Horrible. Rude. No manners. Obnoxious. What's it done? Do you ever find moments
where you think, "Fuck, I was just an [ __ ] then." I think that it's just time for people, you know, you end up being It's not that you can turn into that if if you're not one, but when you become busy, it's a bit like, you know, when people say that, "Oh, he's changed. Of course he's changed, his life's changed, you know, his responsibilities changed, his business has changed. You can't expect him to say the same people. And you know when you have a a group of friends when you all come out of school and sort of you're going from there and you're talking every day and the ones that sort of grow the friendships are still as strong but you just don't talk to each other every week every day because you got your own life. You got your own vision. You got your own plans. But you still go for lunch and you get on better than ever and you but and it's the ones that say oh he's not oh he's don't talk to us anymore. I ain't got time mate. But this is goes back to the sacrifices. You know, if I fall out with friends because of what I'm trying to achieve in my own personal life and my business, so be it. I know again that that sounds, you know, and it's not about being a bad friend or a bad person, but you you can't you can't worry about other people as long as you're a good person, as long as you do the right thing. the fact that you don't have time at the moment, but that's when you people might perceive you to be an [ __ ] You know, you talked a little bit about there about being 80 years old and looking back on your life. I'm going to just play a little uh a little game with you. So, we've got to imagine um imagine that what day of the week was I think it's Tuesday today. Tuesday. So, Friday you find out that Friday is your last day on Earth. My question is, and really put yourself there, right? So, Friday's your last day on Earth. all the fights coming up, AJ Fury, it's all all falls away. What do you immediately regret? That's actually something that I thought about quite a lot. And the reason was is um about 4 months ago, my granddad passed away. He was 93. Great life, you know. And when I went to see him in his last
couple of days, you know, and he obviously didn't look great. And I looked at him, I thought, "Wow, life's crazy, isn't it?" I said, "Everything that you've done in your life and now you're laying here about to leave. So when you get experiences like that, it just you have to be reminded sometimes that this is a game. Life is a game. We're only on borrowed time, right? And you can never take yourself too seriously. I think that's one thing I do well is I love to have a laugh and I don't take myself too seriously. Um, in answer to your question, since that moment, I've been thinking a lot about if I, you know, if I went now, do you look back and say, I couldn't have done any more. I had a great time. And I think the answer is yes. I mean, we could all we can all do better. But my dad is an inspiration that respect because he's the kind of person that couldn't have squeezed one more drop out of his life, right? So, I'm quite envious of that. He's 73 and who knows how long he's going to last. But I do feel like it's very important that when you get to whatever stage when God says that's enough for you that you are able to look back and say I couldn't have done anymore. And that scares me a little bit because I want to know exactly what when you think about more and you're saying I could have done more. You find out that this Friday is your last day. What are the things where you think do you know what? Because I think that the the the that moment like the the deathbed moment puts everything in perspective. It does. But I think in that moment, your emotions are very different to when you're well and fit and on the hustle and just, you know, so you don't get a chance to reflect on that kind of moment until you're there. And the obvious reflection at that point is, I wish I would have spent more time with my family, you know. I wish I would have been less focused probably on work. But I'm not a believer in, you know, the thoughts then are not the thoughts now. And you have to act on the moment. You can't live your life saying, "Well, blind me, when I'm on my deathbed, you might look back and because I don't I don't think you
can plan like that." You have to do what's in your heart. You have to do what feels right. And what feels right for me right now is this. What what might feel right then is ah, do you know what? Should have probably missed a few trips really and just done the school run a little bit more. and and and I know that, you know, you you have to you really have to understand where you are in life. This is great for your mental health as well and your sanity. You got to be honest with yourself and and you got to understand the situation. I know exactly where I'm at, what I'm thinking, what I'm doing, the sacrifices I'm making, what I could do better at, what I you know, but I'm okay with it. You know, I'm you. You can't get the perfect balance. But as long as you understand what is going on and you're not deluded, you're not stubborn. Ah, don't worry about I'm not that, you know, I know I know I need to do more at home. I know I need to do more school runs. I know I need to be less short with the wife sometimes, but can you there's a couple of points here that I think are super interesting. So, um, that deathbed moment, what I think it's doing, and I've never been there. you've not been there. But what I think it's doing is it's telling you what actually mattered because to some degree I think that it's it's like with that hindsight you can say [ __ ] that person criticizing my hair or my cut or this none of that [ __ ] ever mattered. All of that was trivial. The things that mattered were as you say like my niece or my you know so I think that's what that moment but that comes over time. How old are you now? 27. Okay. You're a baby right? When I was 27, what what people thought of me really mattered, you know? I mean, listen, I've been working out for 35 years just to stay fat, you know, like the barnets going a little bit. I could not give a monkeys now at your age. Oh, mate, I was, you know, I might have been Jack the lad. I might have been turning up that, but deep down, you know, it only take one of the boys to say, you know, tell you what, Ed, you're putting on a bit of
timber there. Or look, look, your barn is creeping back. What? What you mean? What you mean? Now I go, "Yeah, mate. I know. Listen, sign of the times, isn't it?" So being comfortable with yourself is the best feeling in life, you know, is the best feeling in life. And I think when I was growing up at school, I wasn't subconsciously. I think I had a massive chip on my shoulder. And that's why I was a bit of a bit of a knob to be to be quite honest. But when you get comfortable with yourself, it's a beautiful thing in life. It really is. you know, when you wake up in the morning and you've always got to try for me and look good and feel good and be the best version of yourself you can be, but you do get to a stage and that's actually when you become really powerful and effective. You know, it's the same kind of thing, you know, when you're young and you're courting or you're looking for a young lady to show you some interest. You know, when you try really hard and you're sort of on edge and you be bit, oh, don't don't really like my hair or oh god, you know, you know the ones that walk into the bar and just go, oh mate, you know, I know I'm not the best, but I, you know, they're the ones that everybody gravitates to. Anyone with a smile on their face is always creates so much more energy and flow than the people that that don't. And and that's about being comfortable in yourself. So, I think that it's very difficult with everything you've achieved at your age to just know where you're going or what you're doing. I'm done. Do you know what I mean? I'm I'm married. I've got two kids. I've got business. I'm struggling to balance everything, you know, but I'm here, you know? I'm not going to roll back the the years and do this and do that. And I know exactly what I'm doing. I know exactly where I'm at. I know exactly what I'm focusing on. And that life starts to become a lot easier then at at your age. You know, I went to work. I left college after my A levels. I went to work for five years in sports management companies and event management companies. I was a sports agent on the PGA tour in America. I had no idea where I was going. I mean I I just wanted to be successful. I wanted to earn money, you know, but the mindset
of of or the change in mindset over the years is unbelievable. I always say to people, what matters to you now, you will look back on when you get to my age and go, can't believe I even used to worry about stuff like that. And that that's important because I I feel like people that are very successful, you know, you did it at a very young age. Very impressive because I think it takes time. Now, when I did the Cambridge uh talk the other day, you know, you're sitting down with all these young I mean, I'm I'm I'm street smart and I can sell, right? These people are like Yeah, but I'm jealous of Buffins. I used to take the mickey out of Buffins. I'm jealous of Bofins now. I find intellectual people fascinating. I love talking to him and just trying to learn and absorb. And I'm sitting in this room of people and they're listening to me and I'm thinking, you know, firstly, you must be listening to me thinking this B, who is he? What is he a car used car dealer or something like that? And then, but I'm I'm talking around. I'm saying to you, what what do you want to do? Well, uh, you know what? what is success to you? They've not got a clue. And it's not because they're at Oxford and they're they're deluded. It's because that's just it's very difficult at that age to understand. I don't believe anyone at 40 looks back at what they were thinking at 20 and said, "Yeah, I had this plan. I'm there now and this is what I always wanted to do." So, it takes time to develop a passion for something. And that that is the that's a key word, passion, because we when we talk about being relentless and we talk about this work ethic, you can only have it if you love what you do and if you have a passion for what you do. I don't think you can trick yourself. You can, but you can't be as good. You know, you you know, you said um earlier that you you feel like you're self-aware of like the the lack of balance in your life because you've got this real relentless streak, you got this family and you're self-aware of it. Do you think, as much as you're aware of it, do you think deep inside you, you really have a choice? Or do you think you're being somewhat dragged by your own ambition? Because this is what I find fascinating about
people, successful people, is it tends to be the case that like me, I'm aware I need to see my niece more, but I just sometimes don't feel like I have I'm fully in control. Well, I I do it because it's what I want to do ultimately. I mean, I do have an obligation, you know. I do have responsibilities. I'm talking about in the workplace. You know, we got a fantastic team here, but ultimately when we announcing a show, when we're doing a press conference, when we do, they want me. They want their flesh. So, they roll me out and I'm just like, I'm like a traveling salesman. Right, Eddie? We're announcing this show today. Off you go. Right, here we go. Back in a car. Here we go. You know what? So, but I do it because I enjoy it, because I love it, because I have an obligation to do it for the business that my father created. And I've my responsibility now is to take that to the next level. You know, he built this from the foundations from nothing. I'm not going to let it just fizzle out as he goes into his 80s. I want to take it to the next level. But the difference is is I don't have to do this, you know? I'm not looking at this saying it's my way out. Um, you know, I just if I just make some money, I can, you know, I can buy the Lamborghini. I could have done that at 21. But imagine the Eddie that that doesn't do this. Imagine what how he But the same thing that was that that was me at school. That was the kid telling the teachers, I don't have to do that, you know. And that can't that runs shivers down me. give me some advice on um because you've got you're married and I'm I genuinely genuinely no it sounds crazy but I'm like you've managed to crack it seems like because you're married um crack the balance of being relentless on one end but then managing to find a person or to at least keep them happy to some degree spoke to yeah I've not spoke to but I genuinely I started to think over the the last couple years I'm like how am I going to find someone that understands that I want to send text messages at 4 a.m. morning and that I sometimes don't want to talk to them and that when I'm sat
next to them, I'll be quiet for 7 hours because I've just got an email that I'm thinking about. And so I'm like, is it the you have to find the right person? Is it something you say to them? I think they need to know you. They need to know what drives you. I mean, if you had a conversation with my wife and you said, "What what is he like?" You know, she'd just go, "Well, he's just in his own world, isn't he?" I mean, the amount of times, you know, that moment where you get home and they go, "Right, I need to talk to you." And you go into the the kitchen, they go right now, uh, Isabella, you know, I spoke to her teacher today and um, what were I'm gone, right? So, I'm I'm going and I'm thinking that contract's got to be at 9:00 p.m., you know, blah blah blah. And she goes to me, what did I say? And I go, the school, what? And she just she but it's not like and and she'll go, listen, we have blazing rounds, you know, you're you know, you're so selfish. you all you care about is work, you know, but you again, it just gets to a point where you just have to understand life. You just nothing's perfect, you know. You got two people that love each other. I've known her since, you know, my 20ies. I' I've I've changed. We've both changed a lot over the years, but we've changed together and we've grown together and this is what I do, you know, and I would have had that conversation with her at some point many years ago to the point saying, "Look, nothing's going to get in my way. I don't mean to sound horrible and I love you and you know, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, but you have to understand me. You have to understand that this is extremely important to me." not don't say this is the most important thing to me cuz that'll get you bang in trouble but this is extremely important to me and I think because she's been around my family because she knows how important it is to us she kind of just gets it you know and there'll be times where she'll say did I hear you on the phone last night at 5:00 in the morning I'll say yeah you know we was doing the Canelo deal or you know AJ deal or and she'll just look at me and go but over time you know I think the the most difficult thing is the early stages of dating because it's very difficult for a
woman. They they want your attention. You know, people people sometimes think that women want uh you know, money and you know, the nice house and of course everybody does, but they don't really. They want your attention and they want your company and they want your time. And there are three things that are very difficult to do when you live that kind of lifestyle. So, you do have to, you know, we'll do I I'll race back from somewhere and I'll say, "Right, you know, tonight, let's go out for dinner and I'll be knackered. I don't, you know, hopefully she don't listen to this. I really don't want to go for dinner tonight." But you have to do it. And that's what my dad has kind of always taught me, son, you got to do, you got to resp people. My mom, he's from from the East End. She's old school. As far as they're concerned, the man goes out and puts the bread on the table and the wife looks after the man. Old old old world that don't exist anymore. But every morning or every night, my mom will iron my dad a shirt and she will put it on his on the door for him in the morning. If your if your wife, right, say I say we we brought her in this room, we sat her down with God and we said, "Listen, you can decide what happens next with Eddie and his career, right? So you can we can bring it to an end and he'll spend more time with you or what do you reckon she would do? She could make the decision on you your relentlessness and your career. How do you honestly think she would make that decision? I think I think she because she knows how important it is to me. I think she would say no he he he needs to do it. He has to do it. But I think the I think the hope is that there is an end place or an end goal. For me you feel Yeah. But for me, I don't whe whether in 20 years time we we play this back. I don't think I want to be 70, you know, maybe even 60, 70, 80 doing this, dealing with problems. And listen, maybe I won't even make it that long. But for me, I definitely have the mindset of not I want to get in and get out, but I I do want to get that moment where I do sit on the beach with a cigar. Don't even smoke cigars, but you
know, and a whiskey. Don't even like whiskey, but you know, I can imagine the picture at least. And go, do you know what? We've done it. We done well. But walking away is the thing that at the moment would kill me, you know, to be able imagine when you wrap up shop and, you know, this might be I mean, for us, we've gone from being a family business, you know, to having four employees to now all of a sudden having hundreds of employees in in multiple offices around the world. We're being approached by for for investment, for takeover, for IPOs. And now we're sort of at that stage of growth where I don't know. I just see I see I see a faster exit strategy than my dad. At least that's what I'm selling to her. You know, just give me a few more years. Just give me a few more years. But I do want to go and enjoy because I can't say I'm not enjoying myself cuz I love what I do. But I do want that moment to just, you know, but it's the walking away. You know, how do you just one day turn around and you might sell the business or, you know, you might float and you take a more of a backseat role. That's difficult because we make our own decisions. We're a hands-on business. That's what we love. We've we've turned down investment and opportunities for years because we don't want to I don't want to bore the directors. We we make the decisions and we do what we want to do because we love what we we do. But when you see such growth and you see such interest and you see the opportunity for, you know, a a much vaster wealth being quite honest, do you want it? And if you want it, what's the exit strategy? Because at the moment the exit strategy for our family is from the day you start working from the day you die you work your nuts off every single day. I mean it's not particularly advanced is it that that strategy but that's just what we've always done. Mental health big topic you know especially over the last 10 years I think if you go back well 10 years ago and you said the word mental health people think people are crazy right they think like you know run away from that person. But now it's become like the opposite. It's like, oh, someone's got, you know, it's become something of, well, you give someone affection and you take care of them because the stigma's
somewhat changed. We know the stats around male mental health. Have you ever suffered from any sort of mental health um predicaments? This is my favorite day of the week. My all-time favorite flavor of Hule, berry. I went up to Hule's office in Tring last week and had another tour around their headquarters and pretty amazing. They have this massive massive gym as you would you would uh you would expect. But the thing that I didn't realize about Hule was that it's also a vegan product and also I didn't realize their commitments to sustainability. Now there's tons of reasons why you might choose to become a hooligan like me. I've been drinking Hu for about 3 years, long before they um decided to help me with the podcast and to sponsor us. But I never realized that element of it. The reason I've always consumed Hu is because of convenience, right? Um some people might consume it because it's nutritionally complete. Um which I guess is part of the reason I did as well. And then some people might consume it because it's affordable. But for me, I never because I'm not a vegan. I never realized that it was vegan. I never realized their efforts around sustainability. And I never realized it was also gluten-free because again that's not a problem I have. And so on this week's episode of the podcast, that's the key message that I wanted to get across is that if you are vegan, and a lot of people don't know this, a lot of my friends didn't know this. Hu is vegan too. Um, and this is my all-time favorite flavor, which is berry. Um, for me, it tastes great. Um, 20 g of protein. I'm currently trying to get in better shape as you I hope some of you have been able to notice if you've seen the podcast on YouTube if you're listening on YouTube right now. Um yeah, and I love it and this is why it's so awesome to work with a brand that you believe in because their impact on the environment is low. They are good for you nutritionally. It's super convenient and if you have the berry one, it tastes unbelievable. So, what a what a win-win win-win for me it was working with Hu because um I get to tell you guys about something that I would swear by and I don't have to be dishonest with you. Um if you look at my fridge right now, maybe you should take a look in it. It's
pretty much all he I'm not advocating to have a hu only diet, but that kind of speaks to the nature of my life and how busy I am and and how many meals I was missing before I became a hu. Have you ever suffered from any sort of mental health um predicaments? I don't think so. No. I mean, I think again depression's one of those things a bit like yoga and breathing and stuff we were talking about earlier. If you would have said to me 10 years ago, listen, maybe even five or six years ago, so and so suffering from depression. If if your perception of that person is, well, he's young, he's good-looking, he's healthy, he's rich, he's successful, how can he be struggling from depression? What a load of rubbish. And actually, it takes the older generation even longer. I mean, I think my dad's only just accepted now that it exists with people because his mentality is, "What? Dust yourself down? What's the matter with you?" M and it's that's you know that that's wrong because it is real you know and it does exist. Um I don't you know have I had days where I've been feeling incredibly down. Yeah. But surely that's normal. You know I don't I don't see myself suffering from that. And I think I think mental health problems and depression I think it comes from overthinking. You know my um my brother-in-law is hilarious. He just I've never known anyone who just overthinks and worries about stuff. You know, you're going to be having a conversation go I've just been thinking about that, you know, and and if that happens, I was thinking, you know, next year you could be there and and then from there it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? Just when you're struggling mentally, focus on the short term. Focus on day by day. I think sometimes people look at and this is the same for business. When you have a project or a long-term plan, there are so many short-term obstacles and goals to overcome to get there. That's why how many times you spoke to someone got this idea, you know, I'm going to be doing this and that and that and then a month later you've not even heard about it. Oh, well, what happened
was we we launched and then, you know, the council came in or the regulation board came in and and this other company tried to do this and and and it just it's like, no, because you didn't focus on the short-term goals. All you were worried about was the house and the Lamborghini and you weren't prepared to to tick the boxes to get there. So, sometimes when I'm a little bit off or, you know, might be traveling a lot and the equilibrium's gone and it's like, okay, so I'm just going to write down what I'm going to do today. And it can be really menial stuff. Could be walk the dog, you know, could be finalize a contract. Could be go to the gym. Could be go and get some food, you know, in from MS or whatever just to say and and I would tick everyone off. Really? Yeah. And I would say at the end of the day, I would look at it and I would go done. And that's the momentum back. That that's where you get the feeling of accomplishment even even on tiny things to say, okay, I'm moving in the right direction. For me, that that is a big help for me is short-term focus. Because once you start worrying about what's going to happen next week or next month or next year, you can't control. No. And you're going to start driving yourself crazy. You've just got to say, "Okay, this is what I need to do today and tomorrow I need to do the same thing." And then before you know it, you'll start making positive changes. You'll start achieving because you know what what you've set the targets you've set yourself, you are achieving. You're a bit of a philosopher. I don't know if you realize because um there's a great famous philosopher that says uh depression is too much of the past and anxiety is too much thinking too much about the future and he says the cure is more now and that's pretty much what you've described that is true because you can't worry about things that that may or may not happen and you can't change things that have already happened what you can do is change what is happening today and it's simple to do that again in in the book I ran a marathon one marathon right because my dad ran loads and he took the mick out
of me I had to do it and it's the same kind of thing You start the marathon, you think 26 miles? If you start thinking about running 26 miles. I mean, I it did give me anxiety attacks to start with. I was thinking that's just ridiculous. I've never done more than 10k. And then you train and you train and you train and you build and then every mile marker is an obstacle. You start off, you think 26 miles by me. Then you go 1 2 3 4 5 and you're you're okay. And then and then you're 12 13 you think I've done half. M and you get to 18, 19, you think, I can't do it anymore. And you think, just get to 20, get to 20, 21. And when you see that 20 mile marker, you know, and then you get to 20 and you go, do you know what? I've still got 6 milesi. I can't do it. And you go 21, 22, 23. And then when it's all over, you can look back. But if you start worrying about the future, you're going to gas out. You're not going to make it. Do you feel that anxiety sometimes in those big moments where you've got, you know, something's coming up and you just can't stop thinking about it? um in my business it was actually the first you know I heard this term mental health and I think at the start I thought nah it's not real and then a couple of years in I a lot of people I started hearing you know friends of mine and stuff going through really bad things I'm like I think it's real and then I got to this point where I was almost scared to admit that it would be real because I I almost felt like if I admitted it was real then I'm like welcoming the possibility into myself of like labeling myself something and then there was one moment where I had this really big decision to make in New York and I'm laying in the hot tub in Manchester and I just got really anxious and I was anxious for about 4 days up until the point of the decision and then I thought that's probably the closest I've come to some kind of mental health predicament is that real an anxious feeling that I couldn't shake. I think social media is horrendous as well. Like I I've made the decision in the last couple of years year specifically to start ignoring and blocking out a lot of um You're a celebrity now.
Yeah, isn't it? when I was coming through, when I was overturning the system, the support was unreal. And I was really feeding off that. I mean, anyone that says, you know, they're not affected by criticism or they they're not worried about I mean, that's a load of rubbish. Of course, you don't like people criticizing you. And by the way, you love people patting you on the back and championing you. Of course, it's it's natural. What things get to you, though? Stuff that people like the personal stuff couldn't give a couldn't give a monkeys about. It's more about the it's more about people when you're putting the work in something and you're so passionate about something and you're actually working for the good of might be the sport or whatever. It's the people that just, you know, presume see you completely differently. So that's the frustration. But over the last couple of years, I just started thinking to myself, what are you I was having a conversation with my old man. My old man's on Twitter, right? And he phoned me up. He go having an argument with this geyser on Twitter, right? And he was going on about the snooker and the format. And I said to him, I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." I said, "Are you serious?" I said, "Who is who is this boat?" I said, "You imagine someone stopping you on the street and having having a pop at you about the snooker format, but it also it's it's the platform that made us what we are. It it got us to the top, you know, the interaction with the fans and the understanding of their mindset. So, we can't just, you know, but it's become a toxic place. It really has, you know, and I worry for I worry for my kids, you know, sometimes one of them be on TikTok and she'll put a dance out and someone will come back and say, you know, I don't know, uh, you're ugly, you look really, you're st, you know, and it's like we never had that in our day. I mean, we never even had a phone. You know, if someone didn't like you, they might say something in the playground, but that's about it. So, we live in a world of criticism, and I think it's a negativity. But that's what I said to my old man. I said, "You imagine like these people, they're all doing it all day. I'll put a
post out and you it's the same ones all the time." And I think, you know, and even um to the point where someone posted my phone number on Twitter, right? And I've had my phone number for 25 years, same one, right? And someone posted and went, "Give this is Eddie Hearn's number. Give him a call and you know, tell him what you think about the pay-per-view price or whatever it is." and my phone was going men's like it was like every literally all day it was just private number private number and I thought you know what you got to change your number and I thought I can't be bothered so I started answering a few right and to this day this was a few years ago it's that people still do it and there's this one guy you've got the same number I can't be bothered to change it right so this guy private number private number private number and it's all day right so I pick it up and I go, "Hello, mate." And he goes, "Oh, bloody hell, Ed." And I go, "Yeah, how you doing, mate?" And he goes, "Uh, um, when you going to stop ripping us off on the pay-per-views or something like that, right?" And I go, and and I went to him, "Mate, let's have a serious conversation. What are you doing?" And he goes, "What do you mean? What am I?" I said, "Have you got a job?" And he's like, "Uh, yeah." I said, "You haven't, have you?" And he's like, "What? Not not at the moment." I said, "What are you doing?" I said, "How many times have you phoned me today?" Oh, I mean, the answer was like 40, right? I said, "You can't focus." I said, "All the energy you're putting into phoning me cuz you think it's banter or it's some kind of accomplishment if I pick up the phone." I said, "Put it into something worthwhile." I said, "Cuz you really wasting your life." And he just went quiet and he's like, "Uh, oh, come on, Eddie. What about a few quid off the pay?" And I'm like, "No, no, mate. I'm serious. I want to help you. You've got to you've got to change, you know, and then he just hung up and I thought, [ __ ] I hope you're all right." But it's true, isn't it? What are you doing? What are you doing? I mean, all right, once might be quite funny, you know, I pick it up and you give me a bit, but like all day, every day, you know, because
I'd hate to be one of those people that just wakes up every morning with no fire in the belly, with no passion, with nothing. And there are, by the way, that's 95% of the population. Many people, that's why it's so important to me here to create an environment, a matching for the for the team where you enjoy being there. you know, we got we get food together, we got a gym, we got a pool, we got we're all traveling away to events, we'll have a night out. We do that because you can't be in a job or a life where you're just flat. How am I going to get the best out of you if you don't love what you do? And it's very difficult to have that same passion when it's not your business, you know? So, motivation is important, but Frank, you know, Frank said to me, he said, he said, uh, you know, Eddie's a Eddie's a businessman. That's that's where you came from. Your dad's a businessman, too. And with this new age of social media and all the interviews you do on YouTube and you are relentless with the interviews as well by the way and I was when I was saw you in New York uh on that rooftop with like the nice garden stuff. Yeah. You were back to back to back doing those interviews with all these bloggers for 3 hours. That's helped grow the business. It's why most people know Matt Room of this especially of this generation but it's made you a celebrity. And Frank said to me he said I don't think he's enjoying the celebrity thing, you know. And I think a lot of people would be really really surprised to hear that because you know people would they think that you'd love it. They think you love the attention. I mean promoters are in the business of attention right but from a personal perspective apparently you don't like it. You don't like the celebrity. I didn't set out to be a c celebrity and I set out to be a businessman. I set out to um continue the success that that that my dad built. But I do recognize that if I am well known, if I am a showman, if I am a celebrity, it will help me push my events. It will help me push the profile of fighters. You know, you get to a stage now where the industry haters might say, "Oh, well, it's ridiculous. He's doing all these interviews. You know, he's more popular
than most of his fighters." You know, more popular is the wrong word. Well known than than some of his fighters. But that's me, you know, and I look at the success of the UFC. I look at the growth of of that business and Dana White and every major fight sport um product has that lead guy. In WWE, it's Vince McMahon. You know, in MMA, it's Dana White. And in boxing, I guess it's me or, you know, I want it to be me. So, there's a method to the madness. And but, you know, the book the book was something that I wanted to do because I just thought it was funny that I would ever write a book, right? I didn't think it's funny. No, but if you knew me at school and you knew I just it was more like Hodddter put it to me during before lockdown and when lockdown come I panicked and I was like oh and next you know talk about being at home with your kids now I'm at home with my kids and I've got no events and oh so I was just like for those first two weeks I was just right we launched a fitness show with Sky that people could do at home fighting fit you know I said to the guys yeah give me that book deal I'll write it now let's do the book now And I wrote it in lockdown, you know, and and I was just zooms, more zooms, more interviews because I was I just I was just scared of not having that drive every single day of, you know, going out there and and and I didn't enjoy like an illness. It is an illness. It is an illness. Let's be honest. We're all sick, aren't we? I mean like you can't do you can't wake up in the night every night and start writing emails, doing contracts, texting people, and then wake up at 7 and do the school run and then drive to work and do it all over again every single day unless you're a little bit ill in the head. You you can't actually be still like so when you talked earlier about that cigar moment in the future sitting on that beach, I didn't believe you for a second. Yeah, you're probably right. But I just I'd like to think that at least what I'm telling the miss is that one day we'll be we'll chill out. You know what I mean? But could you imagine laying on a beach with a cigar like this? No emails, no nothing. Just no fights coming up,
nothing. Just meditating. No, but I think it all depends where you get to. You know, it's like when you're building your stack at poker. You know, the problem with gambling is you never know when to walk away, right? And we're not gambling anymore because we're very good at what we do. But life is always a gamble. So when you build your stack, it's that moment when you say to the cashier, "Can I get a rack, please?" And you put it in your rack. Yeah. And you go up to the cashier's desk and you say, "Cash that in for me." And they go, So, and you walk away and you go, "Yeah." And then you get sit down, you go have a nice beer. But that moment sucks. You said that the m the m that moment doesn't suck. But then after again, it's the thrill, isn't it? I like to win. I like to be. So the thing that would hurt me more is if I turned around tomorrow and went, couldn't have done any more in boxing. I'm out. Bye. What would hurt me more is sitting on the beach, not not, you know, enjoying myself going, now I'm gone. All those people that I was fighting again for all those years to become number one, they got no they're back. You know, they're back. And that's what my dad walked away from boxing because it is the most um aggravating business, an intense business. And that's what I'm saying about all throughout the night because everyone's trying to [ __ ] you nonstop, right? So, you have to sleep with one eye open. And I think he got to a stage where he went, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to go and do darts where everyone's going to love me. Do you know what I mean? And I'm jealous of him for that because I saw growing up this guy that was so intense and who had a bad temper and you know and then all of a sudden once boxing went he was just chilled out. Wow. I can't believe what's happened to my life. So you know I I I hate to let people win and if I left ultimately they would win. But I guess the only time you can walk away is when you're content. And will the contentment ever come at the moment? Like you say possibly not. But who knows, you know, who knows where we can build to, where
we can get to, where it might be that moment. And again, you have to always leave the option open because, as I said, your thoughts at 20 are totally different to your thoughts at 30 and 40 and 50. I may get to 50 and we may be, you know, have had another great 10 years and I might go, fire's not there anymore. I'm done. Or I might be saying, right, now I want to take over music. Now I want to take over football. Now I want to, you know, so it's difficult to say. And with the family businesses, they're a very special thing. And in the world, in the world we live in today with these big global corporations and the public markets growing, it's very rare for a family business to withstand the temptation of acquisitions or going public or whatever. What who you don't have a son, right? And uh I'm wondering who continues the family business if you were to go down that route. Is it No. No, well that's that's a good point because that is the the conversation, you know, ever since I started to understand business more for me that that is a natural progression of a family business to go family business, you know, investment or acquisition or IPO and that's what you do because how do you I I have I have aspirations for this business to grow globally and to be staging events in every major territory. in the world. You know to do that does require huge investment does does require you know management. It and we can do it but that's not our specialtity. Our specialtity is creating great live events for our broadcasters and fans. Okay. So my dad has always said to me I will never ever ever take investment for the business float the business or sell the business. And I've always over the years gone, yeah, but you know, it's got we got to get to and actually the the the son thing is quite interesting. You know, I've been blessed with two amazing daughters. Of course, every man would quite like a son. Didn't work out. It's what God gave me. But there is it's an interesting point because my end goal if I had a son, and listen, only 41, who knows? But I think it would be more, you know, here we go again down the line kind of thing. With me, I would quite like to end the journey with my dad. Do you know what I mean? To say,
look at what we, you know, not it's gone, but look at where we started. Look at where we finished. Because it's very difficult. And I and I take the interest from you know hedge funds and you know investment funds with unbelievable amount of compliment to say wow you know and the calls are coming in non-stop because they appreciate the model of growth where when we talk about one sport one promoter one belt you know that mindset it's a carbon copy of the UFC you know the UFC sold 4.6 6 billion. There is no reason why boxing with with so much more history, with so much more credibility with fans and broadcasters can't replicate that model and actually be even more valuable than the UFC business. And I'm really the only chance it has to do it. It's not going to be Bob Haram. It's not going to be Don King. It's not going to be Frank Warren. It's going to be me. So all of a sudden, I've been giving interviews like that and then the calls are come. But right, we want, you know, and it's like, guys, we're not we don't need it. We're not If I wanted to go and get funding, if I wanted to go and float, I'll do it tomorrow. But it's a big, it's a big, you know, headbutting system with me and me and my dad. And, you know, he's starting to look and I'm just saying we can't just be blind to it. It's a natural progression for any business in terms of growth to to look at these models. And but is that why you're doing the business? because you know this bit the happiness you've got from this business I I would guess and I run a I ran a public business until recently um much of it loads of [ __ ] you don't necessarily want right quarterly reporting you got to hit the numbers if you don't then you got to do something short-term that's not necessarily in the long-term interest of the business right so I I I I'm almost quite jealous of the setup you have the control you have you have it in your family and you're happy but but you're someone that almost needs forward momentum to continue to be to be happy. It's growth, isn't it? You know, you know that as a family business, you know, we we you know, you can see in our financial results, we're fantastic. You know, we we're a huge uh family business
in terms of the numbers that we're delivering year on year end. Yes. But at the same time, you're almost capped by the growth and by the numbers within the current within that setup. Yeah. You know, okay. So when you start, you turn a break even business into a a 5 million EBIT DAR company and then before you know it, the aim is 10 and 15 and now we're 30 and you know, but how do you get to 4 billion? Why does 4 billion matter? That's just the UFC number, you know. So, but because why it matters is it was never on the agenda. It was never possible. It could never be done. And I guess it goes back to the competition with my dad where I'm saying, you know, I believe, you know, when you talk about PE ratios and the value of a business, yeah, we know what we're worth now, but I do believe we have the potential to be worth those kind of numbers. And that would be your success in some respects. It's a game. It's a game, Steve. It's I don't know. It's not like I don't I don't think that deeply to I just see it as a game. But when you start thinking deeply, it doesn't make you question. Yeah, that's a good point. Why does I don't know. I I just I live in the moment I live in now. I just feel that every day we're trying to expand. We're trying to push the boundaries. We're trying to do more. So, would I like to this business to, you know, sell or have a value of four? [ __ ] right. Why? Because it could it's ridiculous. We're just a couple of like he's out of dagnum. I'm his son. It would be a great story. Yeah. But it it's just it's us against the world cuz the money would do to be honest. The money wouldn't change my lifestyle at all. I'm not I've got a couple of nice cars, right? I got a nice house. I don't want a yacht. I don't want a jet. I don't want I mean Well, I mean, we'll talk about it, but you know, I I don't want for anything. I'm not I'm at the age now maybe when I was in my 20s.
Yeah. Wow. You a private jet and you got you just rent it if you need it. So, it's just it's just the fact that what we've done. I think I think legacy is um I was talking to Freddy Flint off on my pod yesterday and I said I said about legacy and he went I think legacy is a load of bollocks. I I actually I disagree a little bit because you know when you go back to that moment where you're on your deathbed and it might be today or and when you've achieved something like that you just you put yeah you start laughing and you go I can't believe we've done it. I can't believe we've done it. And that would be the better kind of memories or the achievement to me. You know, can you believe we done it? But you've got to enjoy it at the same time. But, you know, I don't know. It it's you can you can debate this all all day long because you sit back on the deathbed and you say, "Yeah, but was I really happy?" Well, of course, because this is bringing us happiness. This is I know that every day I come in here and I'm smiling and I'm up for it and I'm passionate and I'm full of energy and I got a drive and a fire in my belly. That's good enough for me. My dad comes in every day. He's been coming in, you know, into this off into this business for 50, 45 years and he's got the same passion, the same energy that he did when he first started the company. That's got to tell you something. And this is almost somewhat of a contradiction because he's coming in it here every day. You're both really, really happy. You're coming in here with a fire in your belly. But then there's this other part of you that's like, "But we need the end point." Would that help? He doesn't. He doesn't he he he he doesn't want any of that, you know. He's going, "No, son. We got the most amazing business. You know, we're forecasted to just for continue growth for the next 5 10 years. We got broadcast contracts locked in. We we're untouchable." And I'm like, "Yeah, but how do we go?" You know, I want offices, you know, we have offices in in England, in New York, in uh Milan, in Madrid. I want offices in Sydney, in Toronto, in Mumbai, in Beijing. that that's what I want. Why? Because we're not supposed to have it.
We were never supposed to be this business. I was never supposed to be this kid. So, it sounds like you're proving something to Yeah, maybe. Maybe. But probably to him. And if that's what it comes down to, which comes back to your childhood, probably. And if you prove that to him, right, you have all these offices around the world, you sell for five billion. Will that make you happy? Probably not. But I don't know. I I I don't think that selling for 5 billion and making a load of money will make me happy. But it it will make me happy to be able to say I can't believe we've done it. You know, I can't believe what we've achieved. But and then you'll need the next thing possibly or that might be the the cigar on the beach moment. I wrote I wrote this one sentence in my book where I started to understand the moment I described at the start with someone made me an offer for my business and I looked at it when I was 23 and I thought, "Oh my god, 25 million quid." Oh, [ __ ] And then what I learned in that moment is my whole life became so confused and I almost fell into like I'd call it chaos. And so in my book I write that we live our lives thinking that we're striving for stability, which would be completed goals, the cigar um thinking that stability is stability and that we're trying to escape chaos. But what I came to learn was in fact um our stability is chaos. It's the having unanswered goals and it's the problems and it's the forward motion. So our chaos is stability and our stability, the cigar moment would actually feel like chaos. Yeah. It would feel like some kind of if it wasn't time. If it wasn't time and we don't know when it will be time. But what you just said there is very true because like any athlete that moment when they're in the chaos is where they feel most at peace with themselves. You speak to any fighter and you say where where would you rather be m anywhere in the world and I say in the ring and that's the same for us. So it's not like I want aggravation but stick me
in it put me in front of problems and and tell me I can't do something. That's where I'm in my moment. Am I in my moment where I'm sitting at home, you know, watching TV? No. I'm I'm at my best when I'm doing those 100 200 interviews or I've got problems or a fight's fallen through and you know all of a sudden the shit's hit the fan. That's when I'm at my best. So, and that's where I do feel calm in a way. You know, at first when you have problems, you know, it might be a panic, but for me, okay, this is what we do. We go to work now, you know, and that's that's the same for an athlete or a fighter. That's when they feel calm when you might be watching going cuz that's not your your calm. That's not your your moment. It's their moment. I'm fine. Yeah. When AJ fights, he ain't nervous. I'm [ __ ] [ __ ] myself because I can't control it. It's not me. It's not what I do. But that's what he does. You know, when when a fight's fallen through or it looks like a massive show's about to be cancelled and other people in here might be going, "Oh, oh, do you think it'll be all right? Do you think we and I just lock the door and say, "Right, leave me alone." And I go to work. That's my that's that's no problem for me, you know. But but you only become exceptional at things and used to things when you become familiar with them and when you put yourself in the same position time and time again. It's about Frank, you know, we we always laugh about him giving his press conferences, you know, because when I did my first ever press conference, which was Audi Harrison against David Haye, I couldn't stop shaking. You wouldn't have known it at the time, but I put my hands on the table like this and I and I could I could feel him and I could I could see him going. So I just when I spoke I just put them underneath my legs like this and just le forward and and you would never have known. And when I done the next one a little bit less and the next one and then within five or six I never needed notes. I just speak you know for hours and with Frank you know he done one recently and I could see him shaking you know I was just taking the piss out of him and I just said just keep doing it keep doing it. Repetition repetition keep putting yourself in situations. Steve Davis, who is my godfather, I said
to him once, how do you you know when you you talk about sort of sports where millimeters make a difference? It's nothing more than a snooker, you know. I said, how do you do you not get nervous? You know, you're about you go down to pot the blackboard and just little one little jolt and it's all over. And he said, I I have no nerve endings. He said, "Because I've been put in the position time and time again. In the end, it's just it's second nature. It's just like riding a bike." And and that's that's what the same with business. You have to keep putting yourself in a position time and time again, and you'll keep improving. Listen, thank you for your time today. Enjoy. Another No, it's another counseling session. You know, I'm going to leave it now and go away and have to have a deep think. You know, I I think the best the best thing you you can talk about mindset and and mentality and for hours and hours and hours. Just keep it simple. Don't over complicate things. Don't overthink things. Be happy. Keep smile. That's difficult when you want something so bad and you're chasing it. But if you start to really overanalyze, that's when you know things start creeping in. Just keep it simple. And um you know I said sometimes if things get tough or you know we got problems and I say to my old man oh he said don't worry he said just wake up an hour earlier tomorrow and go to bed an hour later and I'm thinking that's so that's so and he is the most simple mindset but it works for him because you and the best thing you can do is be honest with yourself as well. Just try and understand, take a step back and just think about what is happening in the world and your world right now. And if you can understand it, you can deal with it and you can solve it. But just think simple. Thank you.