Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWnaf_Zd5_Y
they would be though screaming at you at half time they'd be screaming you at the end of the game told of that David the Messiah boy is one of the best known football managers across the globe building teams with a clear identity I was desperate to be successful as a manager and I had 11 years where you'll find it really difficult to break into the top four the phone line who said Alex and he said I'm retiring and you're the next manager of Manchester United a new interview not saying would you like to be I met Edward on the next day back to his house again we met the Glazer it was three days and that was as simple as that to get that offer from the greatest manager maybe it ever was was a great compliment but maybe if I'd really looked into more detail and more depth there was a huge change going to have to take place I trusted Manchester United do you feel like that trust was let down definitely but my biggest regret was we start with the story that has dominated the front pages the sacking of David Moyes how did you find out that you're losing your job media oh really if you've got any class or any style you have to give bad news wheel what are those steps forward to get West Ham competing at the very top of the table I want to build a new West Ham a lot of supporters might not like the sort of that when you look at where West Ham is now do you worry about losing your job I've got to see it before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode [Music] take me back to the context that I need to understand in order to understand you take me back to Glasgow 1960s yes I was in a really good family who were really important and you're probably going to be talking a lot about it now but uh we were a family who we stayed in the West End of
Glasgow in a tournament building and uh we used to have to you know go up this up the tournament and if people who don't know what a tournament is a tournament is a you know what we would probably think I bought block of flats and you got the tournament and they were never in Glasgow that at that time very very uh good to look at people look down on them a little bit but it was a great upbringing for me that allowed me to play my football out in the street which at that time was was some which everybody considered you know Street footballers everybody played football on the street and everybody in Glasgow did play football in the street played in the park so I started in Glasgow in the West End and that was probably where me and my family grew up your father's also called David he certainly is yeah what did he do for a living and how did that influence well well this is probably is a really good question to me if for me is because but that actually was a teacher but he worked in the shipyards in in Glasgow which was really important so he walked in the as a shipbuilder and then he went on to become a teacher in a college but meanwhile what he'd done in in his part of his other job was that he was a an amateur Football Manager and there was a very famous boys club team in Glasgow called from Chapel amateurs which was very famous and really is uh all my memories come with my Dad running one of the teams at Drum Shop armatures now for the people who don't know you know there's people like uh Sir Alex Ferguson played with him Chapel amateurs there was people like uh ASA Hartford played for Trump and she was John Watt was a Scottish International so it was a very very famous boys club uh my dad also ran uh the college where he teached my dad was a teacher at Annie's Land College which was a college in Glasgow and he uh he took the team every Saturday morning and then he took the amateur football team every Saturday afternoon you've got to remember this result well there was no no money involved in this so really part of my life was seen my dad grow up as a football manager for amateurs uh but meanwhile his real job was that he
was a teacher at Town Eastland College did that make you want to pursue that as a career at that time or what what kind of influence has that had on you in hindsight well I think when I look back now I'd say to say to I think your parents are viewed a huge influence and everything you do for different reasons mine definitely did but I don't think when you're growing up as a boy you're thinking that you know I'm going to be influenced too much by my dad or my mom you don't think that's you get a bit older yourself and when you look back you go wow I can't believe that I'm quite similar to my dad or I can't believe it I followed my mum and going back to that you know my mom was part of it as well my mum had to wash the strips and hang them up outside and you know and then she'd have to wash them and I she'd wash them and iron them and I'd be folding them and put them away so probably from a really young boy I was watching my dad and my mum uh help help young young boys at that time no fulfill go for a game of football hopefully they were all home to going to become professional footballers but if not try and be successful playing for for the boys team in Glasgow at that time one of the things we do tend to pick up from our parents from what I've seen and I certainly did myself was I guess like principles and values of like how to approach life and how to deal with life um what were those principles and values that your parents imparted on you directly or indirectly from observation about life and how to deal with it and how to confront it well I think your parents will always influence you in some way um I was sent to church when I was when I was younger so I went to church a lot of people were and I think that probably had an influence as well in its own way in the in the early days but I think more to do with schooling uh more to do with uh education and and what they they try to do and to be fair none of them I was never pushed on innocent I was never pushed to know to be that well educated I was never pushed out to be a great football player they were just encouraging really and always
daily support so I had parents who really let me grow up the way the way I chose to do so but everything was Guided by them you know respect uh no trust you know trying to be truthful all the time all those things I think come into a good relationship did you ever have a you kind of suggested there that they weren't necessarily like pushy parents necessarily but did you ever have any idea of what career or aspiration would make them proud if I'd asked you you know what does your mum or dad want you to be when you're older when you're younger what would you said uh I think my dad would have definitely said I hope you're a footballer you know I think that I think my dad would have always probably thought that he's a great love of football as well but I think they were they were always really supportive in in anything I wanted to do but I think you know as I get as I got on and I got to an age where I was starting to get coarse I know 12 or 13 I think football was probably my my biggest sort of love and what I wanted to do and I was more interested in either watching football playing football and there and that was probably they probably saw that around about that age as well and is it sort of 12 12 years old you were in Celtics Youth System yeah it was what it was is it that time Celtic Celtic had a boys club and you have to remember my dad also as I said ran a very very famous boys team or one of the teams in in Glasgow and drum Chapel Armature so but I went to Celtic boys club uh and applied with Celtic boys club from Mob is about 12 to 16 till went on but they were they were brilliant years I had there you know the my time at cell taken which uh you know came after as a player in a and as a you know a senior professional not a senior professional but a professional I should say but the Young The Young period when I was at Celtic boys club was I can only remember being winning things and being really successful and you know representing no Glasgow schools as a school board as representing Scotland school schools as a Schoolboy International so I had really really uh good days in the early
days probably from 1459 onwards did you if I'd asked you even at that age so say when you were 16 if I'd asked you about your Ambitions in football what would you have responded with uh I I hope that I might have been good enough to to become a player I'm not sure I would be uh and I would love to be involved in football and I always used to think that you know I'm hoping that maybe I could run an amateur team or I could be involved I could maybe might be good enough to take a junior team you know might get paid a little bit of money you know maybe maybe I'd become a youth team coach for someday if if you know if I wasn't going to be a football player always thought even at that time when we were growing up was like lots of use clubs no so we would go to a school youth club you know because it was where you'd be getting my table tennis you'd play pool you know the gym might be then you play five aside football no whoever was there it's always thought well maybe I might be able to use club or something if I didn't get her if I didn't get any more better than that so those early days there was no guarantee that you were going to become a footballer if everybody really wanted to become a footballer what did you learn from your dad as a manager is there anything even today where you think I think I've got that from my dad or that trait or that yeah planning yeah organization commitment and if I just talk about planning you know at that time there was no mobile phones then so it was it was a phone so he'd be phoning all the playoffs they say look we're playing on Saturday I want you to meet at 12 30 we're meeting wherever it was and at that time they all had to come at times with the same with a shot and tie on they had to bring her back you know they all had to come with the same bag shot in time you've got to remember this is Glasgow in a time when you know people well people had to turn up we're calling tie on if you didn't turn up with your car and tie on you might not get selected for a game so small things like this if you're talking about maybe disciplines or or ways you were brought
up I think possibly I picked up a lot of the traits probably early on why does that matter where do the small things matter shirt and tie uh do you think they matter I guess is another yeah I do I think they really do matter I think sometimes I mean and I have to say in if you if you jumped onto this my senior time I think I think they've always looked better I think players people have always looked better if they dress well and they they're correct they look prepared for the games I jumped to Manchester United just currently in Signal Manchester United had a rule which Sir Alex had that they would always turn up for away games and shutting ties now most teams would rather turn up the tracksuit players can come more casual but Manchester United always turned up uh with a shot and tie on which I thought was a great thing because they wanted to show what they were wanted to come out there and say look the way we look the way we approach it you look at this Manchester United and I I've got to say I really admired admired that part of it it's interesting it's an interesting small psychological advantage isn't it to some degree if I guess it's a statement of professionalism and attention to detail before the before the ball's even kicked yes and uh you know so that takes me back so you're saying is no maybe Sir Alex who played with from Chapel amateurs maybe maybe it picked up from his timing from Chapel Armature so you know the way they they they had to turn up shut the ties on and they had a Blazer on and again let's reaches the number to football team in Glasgow you you um you played with many many clubs over your almost 600 career um games a few across a variety of different divisions um that time working as a player across multiple clubs and multiple divisions what did that teach you and it's always useful to get a variety of different experiences so that you can kind of create your own perspective on on the world but what did that teach you those
600 games as a player what are the fundamentals the fundamentals where I learned so much but my but my early days when it when I started at Celtic was probably engraved in me more than anything because Celtic is an incredible tradition of winning you know winning now obviously Celtic had to win with style as well celt it were you know the biggest cobweight Rangers in Glasgow in in Scotland I should say and and because of that Celtic had to to win was always so important so oh no I could see that there was the first team there was the reserves there was the the youth team and all the managers were under pressure to win then if you did win then it was and what was the score you won one nothing that's not good enough you need to win you need to win three or four nothing you need to win buy more codes and how did you play well we didn't play that well we scored the known it was a Scorpio not good enough you have to win with style so I think my early days I would I was brought up with brilliant footballers people who showed me I don't know if you want to call it a philosophy because philosophy might be much deeper and might offer much more but it gave me some way how do you say well I have to win I have to find a way of winning you know if I can win with style that's even better but more importantly I have to find a way of winning and I picked that up probably my early days at Celtic and I wasn't near that long no that wasn't here that long but I wasn't here that long probably as a senior player I moved on and ended up bobbing around the championship in a couple of lower leagues in England for a long time but I come across some some really great managers uh I can't come across so much we aren't so good but you know I always try to be respectful to any of them because that came from from my background in my my upbringing but I also was trying to pick up everything I could in when I was 20 I had already qualified as a as a
full-time fill a license coach at the time you know to be a coach you had to have an a license it was called uh now you have to have a pro license but you have to was it was an e-license I'd qualified as a coach when I was 20 21. which was unusual the reason I'd done that was because the coaching courses were obviously full of really experienced managers feel a really lots of players trying to get into management the only reason I went and done it was home that would become a better player I thought that if I went on these coaching courses it'll help me become even better as a player and I had a I had a really good career but not quite at the only level which uh I really wanted to be whose idea was that to go and do a coaching course at 20 years old to improve yourself as a player uh my own because I thought that maybe I'd find out more about it but I have to say there was a thing when we were we were young players we were when we were 16 bit Celtic we were sent to the courses to help the coaches so we were called the runners so we were down here to do all the running you know you had to do all the running you had to be a feel bad you had to remember Midfield player and you and all the practices were put on for the coaches and uh no Scotland had great great coaches at the time you know people people at Sir Alex Jim McLean you know Walter Smith you know what I could go on and on Scotland did brilliant coaches without naming the likes of jockstein and no bill shankly and and what you could go on and on George Green for example so I I was sent down by Celtic and I was one of the runners for a couple years and once I was down I said oh I want more of this I want to be around football people I loved listening to them I hoped I would impress some of them who were who were managers of really big clubs at the time and that's what I thought well no I'm gonna go and do my badges myself and went on to went on to do them in Scotland well your time at Celtic um in the first team when you got signed there was three years right you were in Celtic yeah yeah
you then got to experience other cultures and clubs but you you cite Celtic as having that sort of winning mentality that some clubs just have where they're almost you know yeah they're just they get used they like develop the habit of winning throughout your career you've been in clubs that have the habit of winning um but also clubs that maybe have struggled in the opposite direction and don't have that culture of we always win every game when you think about the clubs you've worked in that have that habit of winning like Celtic did what is that how is where does that come from and what what does it look like and feel like it it looks like you walk in every morning with your chest out in your head high and you saw confident in what you're doing there's a a motivation to keep it going not to let it drop there's a something about having to continue to improve to stay at the top that you can't just do what you're doing which is going to keep you there forever you have to keep trying to find a way of doing so I I did see that and I feel that and I've seen it at other clubs since but I have to say I think on the journey to probably where I am today is probably more that seeing a lot of the other side as well is actually the bit which you know I've been a cop so I've been getting relegated I've been at cops but I can't win I've been at clubs where you know it's not going well but it comes with us you know it's it's not been as powerful as as say a couple at Celtic so I think I think you have to see a all round for you to give yourself the best the best chance and I keep saying as you know to do to get to become a football manager I don't think there's any one plan you could be the best player on the planet and not become a football manager you could be someone who's never played the game and become incredibly successful as a football manager so I don't think that's necessarily one way you do it I'm really intrigued by this this idea of like cultures at clubs and within teams and how you can just feel it almost when when a club has that
momentum and they were winning team and when they don't um on the on the country then when we're thinking about teams that are struggling that aren't performing well um what are the signs of that now Rio said something really interesting was it real wasn't Gary Gary Neville said something interesting to me he said that when he was a um Manchester United Sir Alex Ferguson only came into the dressing training ground dressing room twice and he said he never needed to come in there because the culture was in there yeah so if like when Berbatov came over and wasn't fitting the culture the players would correct him he then says when he went to QPR when the manager left the changing room everyone was talking about their wages and where they're going next you could you can feel that like yeah there is a difference I actually think the culture I mean that that team you're talking about Manchester United where we had incredible players and you know I wouldn't say self-made because they had they had a great manager but if you want now if I moved to just now I'd be seen as just much more communication in life now I came from background it was really tough the Scottish managers you know they probably the working background we came from uh they they would be out screaming at you at half time they'd be screaming you at the end of the game you know they would be there would be they'd be after you if you didn't do well I don't think that culture's there and I don't think I think it's changed completely in Scottish managers and if you look a bit Scottish money just probably over history Scotland had lots of managers in English Premier League for example very few now and it might be that we're having to change your culture so going back to a little bit where you're talking about Rio said get in there I think there was a period where the players looked after themselves or they could take the hard hitting hair dryer treatment if you want to call it that no I think it's a completely different culture now whether we've changed or
whether I feel as if management is not necessarily in that form I don't think I don't know maybe you Steve you tell me even better your head of businesses would you go in and be screaming or Bloom Lobster at your staff now do you know what the thing one of my actually I think is an advantage is I didn't grow up in that culture yes so I've never known it I've never known the prospect of like coming into work and like as you hear about it in some old businesses where like the CEO would come in and throw things and throw the table over and stuff yeah I just never grew up in that environment I grew up in a sort of a societal expectation that a manager is like you know might be tough and sometimes but it's fairly nice yeah there's no like big glass office that I sit in away from my team members it's a different world these days well as you relate you were talking about there you said that it's kind of a different world in management you've been in you know the job since you were I guess 20 in your early 20s you're 59 now I'm 59 and I've probably been in management since I was early 30s or when I started and then so 25 30 years um you talk about the change that you've seen in the approach that is effective now what is effective now if if Once Upon a Time Scottish managers could come in and hair dryer it and scream whatever whatever how is the approach changed in your view well let me tell you I remember I remember one of the managers coming in to the dressing room and I always said is don't look up just look at the floor look at your boots look down because if you catch his eyes he's going to come for you so so it used to be don't woke up so that it couldn't have any eye contact with you and you had to you know and you'd probably put your head in a towel so that he couldn't see in an air because that was the way it was we were it was that and I think that I probably had a lot of that in me when I first started but the difference now is as I think we're in a different and maybe maybe yourself or maybe you'll understand it's a different era so as a coach and as a manager and as a manner I think you need to find a way how you're moving on with
that or you'd be left behind and I've got to say I think in my position I've got to admit I have to keep trying to uh keep up renew invest in more work and find out how it's going on there's so many new things and it that don't get me wrong that doesn't mean that I've still not got the bit of I can get in me when I think the players need it and I actually think that I like not like it I think sometimes like I think I think people want to be told the truth and I think one of the the worst things you can do to people is is I think if you keep praising people all the time I think it makes you soft as well so I think there's a level of Praise You can give people but I think you've also got to be really tough with your Trace as well and I actually think that as I've got older I've become better and giving praise I think there's some of my players I'm sure Everton would say that I very rarely gave them praise because I I was always looking for better from them you know over the last when I've been in business what 10 years or something um not not as long as you in terms of management but um even I've started to notice some like warning signs in people so like if I see this in the interview process I go uh well I've been I saw this before and then it ended in this way like pattern recognition yeah you've talked a lot about I've read a lot about your scouting process how you find great talent great players what are the things you look for in the things that you consider to be warning signs I always wanted someone who I thought was putting in effort okay I always thought that and they might say well how can that come in front of many other things well I can think of many probably you and you'll think of plenty of school boys friends who were truly talented player but baby didn't weren't dedicated and put in the effort to didn't do the work I think if you don't put the effort in the dedication to it then and the other thing what I use a lot of is you know if you don't love the game completely then you'll probably find it really do I think you'll find it really difficult to become a manager if you don't love the game with or have real longevity I think
you could be a player and maybe get through your your career 10 15 years as a player with maybe without loving football but I think if you want to go longer I think you've badly got it love love the business when I became manager of everything but I did it before I used to always meet the players and I still do if I can you nearly wanted to see their eyes to see I need you to work hard I need you to know to do this job for the team I'd like to see a you're going to take that I'm going to be critical of you and I want you to get better are you happy with it you nearly wanted to put the questions over to them to see if they were going to take it did you I did too many for us and I've I've got to say we've had quite a few of the time which I've got to say who I've had in my house who have had in uh offices and we've probably not taken them sometimes because a bit like you said sometimes something just makes you go that's just not what I quite wanted to hear and that might only be a gut and it might not it might have no reason to buy some of the boys I'm talking about I've gone on to be Superstars and play for another time but something at the moment can only give you that little bit of gut feeling if you think it it sounds like it's going to fit for you I'm not saying you get it right but I think at that time you have to have your own things were you say no I'm not going to change this is what I want to do and I want to keep it this way and I some of I've missed out on some how does that process work if you're looking let's say you're looking for a striker what's the process you know because we've heard some I I don't mean we're only understanding of like signing players is playing like football manager on the on the PlayStation or whatever but I have in my head you have all these Scouts they produce reports yeah and then do you know what position you want to fill do you go to the Scout or what happens uh I think you in the main the scouts will probably bring them to you I mean look if it's somebody playing for one of the teams locally or that and is available and you think there's a chance then you'll probably try and do your
homework you're trying you know obviously statistically you'll try and get it right you'll try and look at the strengths and weaknesses you'll you'll take any consideration maybe the price is going to cost where you think it's you know where it fits in for you what you can do but the ones you don't know are what you you're looking for your Scouts to bring to you and and quite a lot in modern footballs the agents are bringing them you know because the agents are putting such a huge part no whether you see it as a positive or A negative they're playing such a huge part behind the scenes in football at the moment and these people will bring it obviously if you're trying to sell something you're always going to talk it up but in the end you know we would or I would always try and get my Scouts to go through it they would probably say yes this is what's coming and looking at come in we should we'll go and set more we'll sit for a few hours watching if we wanted to take it even further then we would go into much further detail would eventually probably start trying to find out people who know the boy or just played with a boy and try and get a bit of his character background would try and find out more about you know is he that is he the right type you know is he is he a good boy is he is he a good trainer is he going to be disruptive in the training I think all those things are really really part of it I don't think any I don't think any football manager wants people who are not going to fit in in what was it and I guess again uh reverse back to business probably you're the same and you don't want people here not going to fit in with what you've got you want somebody who's going to come in and blend in and be part of it what was your best ever signing ah but I always say Nigel Martin is saying Nigel Martin the goalkeeper who was at Leeds United and he was on a free from Leeds United and we took him to Everton at the time and it's only because he was a three but not only that he was a great goalkeeper obviously he had been an England goalkeeper he was probably near at the end of the time but he gave me about four or five years of stability
but see when people talk about signing your best signing over the over the time I've now been I've made that many signings I've got you know it would be it's really pretty shame for me even in M1 because I've got so many that I could I could see you don't have to I would not ask you to name your worst signing but where have you frequently got it wrong when signing players you know what I think you do is I think it's the ones I've missed the ones who you've said no I don't think is quite good enough I think I'm gonna don't think I wanna and I've had hundreds of them who's the one you missed the most that well just recently because it's because because we've been talking about it you know we've been Alvarez who's just played for Argentina in the World Cup you know was I I brought in a new Scout who says look you should go for Alvarez at River play and I watched and I watched these are very good really good technician I thought he he done so many good things as a center for a bit I thought maybe not quite the one we want maybe didn't quite we had Mickey Antonio uh who had been doing very well I don't know if he's you know and you see sometimes the players change in six months but I have to say there's other other players like that who you don't take and don't go on to be a real success but that one at the moment is just one because it was probably only a year ago where I decided nah I don't think it's probably the one we're gonna take it's the same in business no matter how many people you hire yeah it's always still guessing yeah and I was speaking to my friend Gary vaynerchuk about this who's hired about 5 000 people and he said to me he says you know I've been in this game for 30 years and I'm still just guessing because we can come up with all the principles and systems we want but how someone people change but also how they present in an interview yeah can be drastically different to how they present in six months time yeah when they're comfortable you know what which really interesting I'm asking you I I hear now and I hear because there's so many jobs change in our our industry he says how do you pick a good football coach now how would you pick a football manager whatever you want but how would
you pick a good football manager no what would give him the no the owners or the people who are doing it how are they picking it because again what I said it says yes of course we can think of some real special people who would be would be in that group but if you're you're a lesser Club trying to pick a new Talent when you know why would you get it is he got the driver has he got the energy has he got the love for the game to to to stay with it has he got an idea that he wants to go further and he's going to put the work in it's really hard and sometimes you can't find them and I get the feeling it's the same in Industry now as well yeah um yeah I I think the more I've hired The more I've realized that it's just guessing which I think would people be surprised at because people think that you'll get progressively better or your your confidence will will grow my confidence has actually Fallen with experience yes so so what that means for me is that when I hire someone and I know it's not right just very quickly have to make a decision because the worst thing is indecision right waking wasting too long that's it we have the same situation we've talked about as we are buying players and we're and we're spending a lot of money like you are and then you're saying is and you're saying no but you can't do this but we don't think you can do that and and at times maybe the older you get you would think this it becomes easier it actually becomes harder the more you're in it because you've probably seen the good ones the bad ones yeah this is before this past they try and get a good one but not so good anymore we're going to follow another parcel I've got to say no hiring people and bringing them in is not an easy thing to do it's slightly different I guess in business because as the CEO I in business usually get to make the decision about who you're hiring I mean sometimes of course managers at low levels make make that decision but in football there's often a conversation that the board or the owner has stepped in and has told you who to sign and who to buy well I think that's one of the things really in football where you would say laughs
if if an owner was going to do that you say no come on it's not not right it is it's part and parcel of football now it's Rife and football where a lot of owners are making the signings instead of the manager has the owner ever asked you to sign a player uh yes yeah they have yeah what did you say to them I've tried to say I've said no to you know and I've said no it's not the way I do what no if the players are good I'd be I'd be saying great bring me them in but then what we would do is if we get a name of a player then we would try and do our homework and try and do other stuff and by the way we might be wrong we're accepting that but if we follow the correct process or what we believe is the correct process and it still comes out no we have to go with what we're saying now if the process stays here by the way where he and he's a good player he's going lots of goals he's you know he's young you know resellable if it doesn't work if all those other points come up then we're saying oh wait a minute maybe we have to think about it but I think really trusting your process and hoping that the longevity I've had will probably hope that you've made more right decisions than wrong decisions by the time by the time you get around to making the final decision I guess one of the things you can control which doesn't have to be a guessing exercise is the culture that they join so the culture that they join is good then there's a higher chance of them being successful as a player as a new signing I agree how do how do you do that at the clubs you're managing now West Ham have you done that in the past to make sure the culture is right and what is that culture yeah well I think I think for me the biggest one was when I when I was at West Ham the first time we came and we thought we'd done a good job and we kept the team up we were asked to come in we kept the team up and we didn't get the job and then another manager came in and we were we were out of work for a year so then to be fair to the owner David Sullivan he followed me about companies says would you come in and says yeah love to come back no problem I felt I had to do
a bit more at West Ham or had to try and I I keep using and I say it opening a I want to build a new West Ham so what is a new West Ham mean well a lot of people a lot of supporters might not like the sort of that but West Ham I've moved to a new stadium it's not been it's not been appreciated by everybody but that's what we're going to be it looks like for the next hundred years that's when it looks like the club's going to be there so we need to make the best we possibly can of it you know I want to change the cut I want you I want that to be a lot it's a young kid's Company West Ham East End of London's a huge area former West Ham supporters a lot of poverty in the area West Ham offer great ticket prices great opportunities they do brilliant work in the community West Ham in in EastEnders one thing they really do and I want to encourage all the young kids now what do you need you need exciting players so that these young kids want want to buy a jersey so that they're not following the top two or three teams in the country and you want them to come so I I've tried to change try to change the team but you know deep down I'd really like to say I'm trying to make West Ham better and it used to always do other people when I was a manager I haven't managed man united in other clubs before would say oh you get a flaky West Ham you know they're not not that reliable and you don't know what West Ham team is going to turn up well I want to change that culture there's so much room for improvement at West Ham you know I think it's got great potential to improve and I I hope that you get I get the opportunity to keep it going with a couple of really really good years uh success for West Ham there's been success and it's how we continue that success now how we build on it and I think if you're if you're in business I think you'll accept it you know you quite often you have a couple of years or a good year and then you might not have it quite so good because we'll have weird a little bit like that at the moment so I'm hoping that
culturally I think we have changed I've changed a load of things at West Ham we're not we're not milky we're not flaky uh I think there's a different atmosphere in eastenda London regarding how people see West Ham I I like the way we've done it but we've also got some exciting really exciting young players who those young supporters I talked about could fall what are those next steps then if you reflect back on what you did at Everton you took them from being that kind of you know happy to survive Club to a new last I think your last eight years you finished in the top you lost seven years you finished one of the two yeah you last eight years you finished in the top eight seven times yes or something along along those lines um they became a consistent competitive team at the top top end of the table when you look at where West Ham is now as we sit here in our 16th in the table what is what are those but after two amazing years in the two previous years where West Ham were absolutely fireworks to be fair dangerous very very dangerous team to to play against I'm not Manchester United fan so I remember like the last two years have been really really um incredible for West Ham what are those steps forward now to get West Ham to being that team that that is competing at the very top of the table and I find it so interesting that in fact when you when you answer this question you don't just think oh we need to buy more players it's kind of more of a holistic wider broader job that needs to be done yeah I I actually think that we we bought our players and I think that you know I've gone out there and said that's what I'm doing but I think I sometimes I think in in football not that you need to break it but we had a really good team for the last two years but with a few Mark Noble was coming to them one or two other players were coming today and we had to change and we were actually shortly numbers were really sure the players have done and I felt as if I nearly had to break up a little bit because I had seen Signs Now
my experience my longevity was telling me if I don't do this now then I'm gonna feel I'm going to be caught out now we probably didn't do quite as well from January on last year that was my feeling we had some brilliant nights we got this semi-final European football no we had been challenging all years I mean we in the last game of the season we we finished seventh but we were 10 minutes away from finishing six above Manchester United you know uh so the the margins were incredibly small and all this but I felt that now we might now with the age I'm the only saying is I don't really give a [ __ ] now I've got to say I'm not going to get many more goes at this so if I don't make a go to I don't really do what I think is right and what I want to do then I'll regret it so this part of me said yeah we had to bring in new players and we've gone out and we've put my head on the Block and said here we go brought these new players in no what I really need is hope that I can get a little bit time to set on getting them settled in I think we brought in good players I think we have got a better Squad maybe not a better team at this exact time than what we had last year but we've definitely got better players which are I believe will show that and in the coming months do you worry about that um losing losing your job is that something that like sits and you might I I wouldn't in my business I mean other than when I was at Social and I had a board of directors we're a public company so technically they could fire me um it's not something that I think about like if I'm if I perform badly as an executive the company goes down well what it says I think as a young manager I worried much more yeah I think now in the in the position I'm in now and when I'm going I'll worry far far less because it's in my blood I love the game I want to be here I'm enjoying what I'm doing but it wouldn't be the end of the ass if something went wrong for me now where I'm at but my pride my determination is that I want to be successful and I want a I want to know be do a really good job for West Ham
so but I think when you're younger if you look now at Young managers young managers find it very difficult if you don't do well in your first job maybe like business you know in business maybe you ever go and something fails nothing quite what you're nearly tentative do you think I could go again maybe nobody will help invest this may whatever it may be so it's so important you do get it right when you do go and book them back to if I just have to because I want to visit I think you need people who are really supportive at the start I had a great owner at Preston North End a couple of great owners who really supported me uh when I went to West Ham I had great men who who helped me at that time as well I think sometimes you need to be a bit lucky on your journey that you know if you turn up a club where an owner's making the signings or you're not good he's only going to give you half a dozen games to to show what you can do you're probably going to find it it's going to be very difficult to succeed so maybe a bit lucky at the start but I worried much more when I was younger than I would do now that success that you want the time to achieve at West Ham what what is that success what is the goal for West Ham uh if we sat here in you know let's say 10 years five years time that's too long in football these days five years time what's the what's the goal I think we've been successful yeah I think West Ham have been successful in the last two years and what you know really the one show the the great winners in the serial winners are the ones who wants to get a better success all they want is more of it uh I'd love to be sitting here where and bringing my trophies in here in front here and putting them up and saying here look at these trophies I've not got that what have I got I've got periods of success and all my teams have done well we've got to Europe you know got to a cup final here and there we've got to semi-finals so not everybody in the industry can have success you know not everybody can know be what about with our medals and at the moment have not but I still believe there's still a big chance that I can do that is that your kpi of
success is that what you it's probably not now it's not now because I actually think staying in the job wouldn't be a bit longevity is a really important thing in anyone if you can stay in it and you can it's no it's a big thing it's showing that you've done a good enough job but you know Avida I've been fortunate enough with a few manager of the Year Awards over over the years you know last few years have been nominated for it but I've said many times I'd swap it for one of Jose mourinho's lemon Meadows if I got the chance you know or one of these trophies all day long so that's still got to be what I'm driving to do now well not gone forever because I'm getting older and I don't want to be as old as Sir Alex or Roy hodgin when they finish those sort of people but but I still get the energy I still get the drive I feel as if I've got a good team and I feel as if I'm still capable of of keeping up with those younger ones quick one we are lucky enough to have Intel sponsoring this podcast and in previous episodes I've introduced the Intel Evo platform the badge of approval for high-spec laptops that will enable you to be more productive on the go all of their designs are tested to make sure they're extremely thin and making them super portable and they also have a high quality display and camera features for example this Samsung device that I'm using for those of you that are watching on on YouTube or Spotify is super light making it the perfect on-the-go device whether I'm working in a plane or I'm in the car or wherever I am on the go with Intel Evo you don't need to sacrifice you get the performance you need but in a stylish and lightweight design so now you know all you need to do is to look for the Intel Evo badge to be assured of performance and as always to find out more head to intel.co.uk Evo quick one from our longest standing sponsor hero I I can't tell you over the last I'd say over the last really it's been about two and a half years it was really um post pandemic how much my health has become such a huge priority in my life and I have this laser laser focused on what I'm putting into my body it's funny because as you get older you can start to feel the things you're putting into your body more and more and more um and if I if I put something into my
body especially things like gluten if I put those things in my body I feel them tremendously the next day my energy levels my sleep and everything in between huel has been probably the most important partner in my health Journey because I've been in the boardrooms I've been to their offices tens and tens and tens and tens of times I've seen how they make their decisions on nutrition and I trust it most of my team that are in this room with me consume it and get the benefits of it too so if you haven't already tried your do so Alex sure Alex there's been a lot said about Sir Alex I talk about him a lot because I've interviewed so many of his former players um there was a lot of rumors that he went to your house and asked you to become the manager of Manchester United no he took me to his house oh he took you to his house yeah and actually a I'll tell you story Steve is I it wasn't long after I turned 50 my wife had bought me a watch and actually we had gone through to Manchester too to the Jaws I needed to get a link taken out and uh it was actually an altering on by all places I was in altering them and uh the phone rang and it was a it was Sir Alex and I saw the way I says oh bloody hell it's Alex on the phone and I thought oh he's gonna he's gonna need one one of my players or he's going to want me to take one of these players which no he's he's coming on he says something and he and he said hey where are you I I see something I'm in Manchester he says uh well right come out to the house when you're ready will you said and that's a person Alex accent probably so good and uh I see his sister wife I can't do it I'm in my jeans I couldn't go Easter Alex with a pair of jeans on it's no way so I'm saying oh what am I going to do don't you Marks and Spencers and buy a pair of trousers you know so she said oh can we go just go and get on me and do it so anyway drop my wife off at the shopping center
and I drove out to Sir Alex's house and and he went I went in and he says then you come and uh very nice house and he's got a lovely sort of room Sports room up the stairs and he says what a cup of tea says I took up a cup of tea and he and he said I'm retiring and you're the next manager of Manchester United no interview no no telling me not saying would you like to be no I'm retiring and I nearly slipped down it was a it was a lesson I nearly slipped down because obviously that was nobody knew that sir Alex was retiring nobody knew no nobody even suggested I thought about it and I nearly slipped down when I heard them say that and then he says and you're the next manager of Manchester United and I just sort of went yeah well no okay I wasn't gonna I wasn't going to turn around I didn't think I would ever say nowhere I could I don't even know I was in a position to say no and uh and that was as simple as that we got underway he said and there was only maybe and to be fair it was only four weeks to go to the end of the season maybe five weeks to go to the end of the season I was coming out of contract to Everton and I was really wanting to be respectful to them and actually my next game was against Liverpool uh on this Sunday I think I met Sir Alex in the midweek on the Wednesday or something on the Sunday and I knew that if we had got a draw with Liverpool we would probably finish above them in the league and it was at anfield and we did we get a drop and we we did finish up off them so it didn't have any effect on on what I was doing at Evan but the big the big thing was to say and then the next day said uh I want you to come back to my house tomorrow uh uh Edward was going to come and see he's going to be the new chief executive who he says David gills uh leaving as well and that was it and I met Edward won the next day and then the next day back to his house again we met the glazers and so it was three days three days
where I dropped back to his house the the biggest problem I had was he said and you can't tell MD about me retiring he says nobody knows that's no promises tell your wife but nobody else I couldn't tell my kids I couldn't tell my dad I couldn't tell my dad that I was going to get the job but I was getting the job so that that for me was how it happened and when I wrote back now to get that offer from probably arguably uh the greatest the greatest manager maybe there ever was was a great compliment uh but maybe if I'd really looked in more detail and more depths in in I was desperate to be successful as a manager and I had had 11 years at Everton where we said weeds would say we'd hit the glass ceiling but we would find it really difficult to break into the top four the competition and the money was required but my biggest regret was uh I was so close to Bill Ken right the owner at Everton and I and I couldn't tell and it felt and it was really bad that I couldn't tell him because I was so close to Bill but I couldn't break my word without Sir Alex said he didn't want me to tell it so I couldn't tell MD about my wife so jump back in the car drove back to the shop mall shopping center got the wife put her in the car and I said something new manager Man United and she was like well you got piss off your top rubbish you know so uh that was it and that was how it went you were coming to the end of your contract with Everton at the time what was your plan you hadn't signed a contract so you must have been I hadn't been I had I have to say as I had been I think I would my plan was probably to stay at Evan we just hadn't got it done in for different reasons I was wanting to see how it was going but I have to say I'd I'd met a couple other clubs I'd met a couple of really big clubs who'd approached me and phoned me and spoke to me you know what was I doing would I be interested the truth is I don't think I'd have I'd have left for any of them because everyone had been so good to me but I was also wary about overstaying
your welcome at Evan you know sometimes just in management supporters won't change they want to want to try something different and and I get it I'm a huge football supporter you know if I wasn't managing I'd be watching football and I'd be you know probably talking about it like everybody else does but uh I you know it came up I've got a chance to manage probably the biggest cup in the world I'm falling a club who always give their managers time they gave Sir Alex time and also that their values were no they played young players Man United I always thought man united never went out and tried to buy the best on the market and they never went to the went they never went to this sort of designer shop to buy the best thing in the designer shop they bought correctly they bought young players they bought you know you look at the Players they had which they come through from Becks and the Neville's and all the other ones who came through they always did something a bit a bit of style about them they never went out to get the best overseas manager in the world they picked which fitted their model so I actually felt when Ceramics offered me the job in Manchester United who had given me the job I felt they thought I must have been the best choice for the job at that time and they saw that and also maybe not similar but similar in a way that maybe there was a similar background a similar upbringing a similar route maybe to to get to the point so I trusted Manchester United I really did adjusted them because of what they stood for as a football club you know many times um when you're successful as you were at Everton you're given big opportunities it's the same in business people come to me and give me these huge opportunities and sometimes like the bright bright lights of the opportunity have often caused me to make a wrong decision or not to take you know take the right amount of due diligence as you described they're like not really looking into the details because it's such a big thing that you almost can't say no to it you said there that you wish you'd looked a little bit closer with the details what do you mean by
that well I'll tell you who told me was uh Howard Wilkinson said to me down the line I wish you'd told me before he says all the managers over the dynasty so when you look at it uh I think it was Brian cough was one of them I think the other one was Sir Bobby Robson all the managers who had the real uh Dynasty and transdently United managers as well uh don ravey maybe as well I think it was MD who followed them never worked no I never even thought for a minute because I I thought to myself no I'll come in and and I actually was thinking I'm not changing I'm going to try not to change much of it so I said of course I have to change it it's not Ceramics it's me and I have to do it my way and I have to try and do a little bit but ultimately uh I was going to keep it going but then I'm gonna when I look back at the things what I heard I thought my goodness have I looked a bit closer and maybe even now I'm a bit older now than I was when I get the job maybe maybe even I needed even more experience and maybe even I had it at that point maybe we'd be more ready at this period in my career than I was even saying no don't know what it was eight or nine years ago whenever it was so if they called you now well you know they've got a really good manager I think and I think I think the the thing about Manchester United Manchester United have of chosen incredibly good managers yeah rubber with some of the best managers some of the best managers you could ever imagine I've been I've been at Manchester United so you know sometimes you've got to say you know if you're if you're quite bright I'm sure you are with a business you're working it's not always the boss's fault it just doesn't this doesn't go right so like I I took over at a difficult time you know it was quite a few senior players probably coming to near the end of their time but I also have to say I was really proud I took over the Champions England when when that was a time and that was I'm saying what a chance I've got you know maybe the opportunity to win trophies the opportunity to be successful and it was the thing I was probably missing
from a time at event that I wasn't quite getting close enough to to winning trophies would you would you Eric ten hog aside I think he's great I think we both agree there but would you ever be open to coming back to Manchester United in the future if they they'd asked uh well I don't think it would ever be it would ever been a role as a manager that's for sure so that my time's gone but you know if ever I always love to be involved in football and hopefully somewhere along the line someone will want to use my experience when my time's up with we've been a football manager but uh Manchester United is a great experience and a and I found it difficult to sort of have have something which could sort out I don't know how it would I would sort of put over what it meant and the only way I could put it out is I think when you manage man united it's like living in the penthouse and looking out you know and until you've had the penthouse and you're looking out and you're above everybody and you're looking over you see the view much better and uh for me they were the penthouse one of the big things that did change at Manchester United and I only know this because I had a season ticket the ladies and the the men that serve you the food in like the hospitality suite or whatever they always have a great relationship with them and they would tell me things about how the club was maybe before I could add enough money to buy a season ticket one of the things they always said was the role that David Gill had on the club as well yeah people don't think understand that enough but David Gill was the CEO of the club yeah and I mean I've seen in my own businesses when the CEO me was removed how much it was a completely different place and people don't understand that because as fans we look at the manager and think ah but if the managers in my business are very very very important but the person above them has the most power and the most control in the most way is the CEO now that changed and the the wonderful people at Manchester United would tell me that well when David Gill was here he knew all of our names and that really struck me that like he knew all of our names he knew all of our
birthdays we used to see him now we don't see yeah Ed Woodward anymore we don't see the chief Executives anymore they don't know our names that's a real sign of a cultural change definitely just think of the values with that is yeah the values of the CEO sending your Buster card or I don't know and I mean like if we I would be incredibly complimentary if it said Alex said Alex would fall out managers who had lost a job or managers who had been successful he phoned me up when we were doing very well at West Ham six months ago whenever it was it they were always correcting and when you think of values of what it means to be at the top and what the things small things which matter those things really matter but for me I was taking over the club I'd lost David Gill who I knew very well from different things and working with them at UEFA and different things as well and he was a huge huge Miss but that wasn't to say that the new CEO wasn't he was to be giving every chance and I wanted to help him and he wanted to help me ultimately it didn't work that way you said you trusted the club to give to give you long enough do you feel like that trust was let down yeah I do a bit because I feel that you know I think that if you're putting in a new manager you're hoping that you're going to give them and look at least a very stable job in a very good environment to come and do it and obviously no I think when you when we look back you would say hey there was a huge change going to have to take place at Manchester United after Sir Alex and maybe ideally I think it was we were going to try and make it seamless where there wasn't going to be too big a change but there's a lot of players changing uh you know getting to an age where there were no having to move on there was actually a big Squad of of players who had been incredibly loyal to Sir Alex and suddenly they've got new managers coming in the door maybe not playing them as much so they don't have quite the same sort of coarseness to to him and still building up relationship so I think there was I think there was a lot of that and it made it difficult but you know the the thing I I look back at
business in in you're a very successful businessman always think you have to give bad news well because you're the boss and you run a really big business like Manchester United did and I think if you've got any class or any style it's good when you get off off the job and then you give them when you give them all they and you talk about also but I think when you're having to get bad news out I think even bad news has to be done in a good way as well and I felt the way that the I was told at the same time at Manchester United wasn't done as well as it should have been done uh but the way that you were told you weren't going to be manager yes you know it was there was there was ways it could have been done better and it could be made a lot easier than what it was no I've heard this from former players I've heard former players tell me that they were really disappointed by how the club um specifically Edward wood gave them their send-off I think it was I think it was Rio that said to me that like just came into the dressing room tapped me on the shoulder and told me that this was my last game or that they were selling me or something and that doesn't pay respect no two no it doesn't and I actually think that Looking Back Now hey you think to yourself hey it's life got on me you know that's the way it is when you're you know you're in you're in an industry or you're in you do that but I still think that uh I think if you're the biggest one of the biggest sport businesses in the world if not the biggest you would hope that you would do things correctly like David Gill would sound speak and say hello to them or light they would send a birthday card so the same should happen if you were telling somebody that you were you were stopped number you're sacking them or you're getting rid of them you would hope they would do it the best way they could how did how did you find out uh media oh really media phone in me yeah lost a couple I get it lost the game at Everton actually in the media was saying I know you're losing your job and you know I I try to make contacts and
and say like why don't we meet up you think you're going a bit it didn't certain before I knew they called me and the day after and by this time the whole world had known about it before I'd sort of get you know got to know so sometimes I think people want to want to get it done right and I just didn't feel it was right but anyway from my point of view uh I generally don't have any real I don't know if I gripe about it because the industry I'm in uh means that this can happen quite often and you don't get things done the way you want it you have to live with it and and that's the way it is in the wake of that how does um what does it look like at home this is probably one of the most interesting things that I personally pondered throughout that period as a Manchester United fan which is when you go from the penthouse and then the the landlord evicts you from the penthouse after I don't know 10 10 11 months at the club the what the weight of Manchester United you know it's the most talked about Club it's the club that sells the headlines it gets all the clicks so every it must feel like everything is about you in the world of football and it's like a very public apparent failure at home you've got wonderful wife Pamela you've got two kids what's it like at home I think I think personally you're a little bit shame because you've not done done well you know you're not done well for your family so I think personally I felt I'd let them all down because you know I I'd really what like I said if nobody probably the hours and the work I'd put in as a young I didn't believe I was ever going to be a coach never mind the coach of Manchester United but the hours of work had put in it got me to a level where I'd worked and I'd done an awful lot of hard work behind the scenes over the years on day than to lose it so quickly so you get a job and I said at that time I had two or three really really big co-ops who were were talking about me speaking to me but when Sir Alex came and made me the offer it was very hard to say no
and then for that to go very quickly so it was a bit like getting to top up Everest and then actually starting to decline very quickly so from my point of view it was hardkin home you know it was difficult uh but I've got to say it's a bit like my mom used to just say hey whatever happens you just have to get up and go on with it you know you're on with it you'd be taking the chin and you got away and you know sort of sticks and stones don't worry too much about it but you're right when your manager of Manchester United you talked about in every continent every country you'll either be in the front of the back page it's one of the papers so but that's also the privilege of being a manager of Manchester United as well what's the what's the toll of that if you were to warn me about the time I think the tool for someone who cares deeply about their profession and wants to be successful and wants to do well the toll for me personally time felt felt big it really did and it's probably it probably took me a wee bit to get back on the road a little bit without saying about a watch really after I lost the job I said well I'm going to have to go and try and reinvent find out more new things no keep keep current where can I go to find out what's going on you know and I obviously couldn't go back to Old Trafford to watch a game where I couldn't really go back to to a gooderson and watching him so it made it quite difficult but I found myself doing quite a bit of work for UEFA I'd done all the Champions League games which was really good day and and I spoke in all the pro license courses for the coaches which kept me current and having to keep up to date with things so those those type of things kept me kept my education and kept my knowledge and kept me going a bit better I still think that when you when you you've been at one of the big clubs it's always a Miss because you realize the the level they're at you said that the toll is big in a very practical real sense what does that mean is it sleepless nights is anxiety is it yeah yeah I'm someone who sleeps really well to be honest but I do think that
it's very difficult when you when you lose your job in in our business you know you've talked about a lot so you have to accept it and I'm a part of it you will be as well or if things go wrong or any of your businesses feel you'll be you'll be current no people will have criticism but I think if you're going to go into football management then you have to find a way of saying how they deal with it how am I going with it what's my mechanism uh I remember thinking when things weren't going so well at Manchester United you know I'd be driving any training so I couldn't put on Talk sport I couldn't put on Radio 2 I couldn't put the words on in them but yeah so I thought I'll put on uh whatever music it was and they come on and he was never talking about me on that news as well so oh my goodness is this ever going to end is it is there a channel it isn't talking about Manchester United in some way but that was because it was getting closer to probably when I wasn't doing so well and there's a lot of talk about it but uh I think you just have to find a way of shutting yourself off from it the best you can but the world we're in now for young coaches of social media if you if that's what your your world is or or how you present yourself it's much different now and uh in days gone by in the early days at Preston I look at the I look at the newspaper and there'd be a letter page and there'd be four or five supporters saying why is moy's not playing him you know and what's he doing and that used to be where the criticism was mainly coming from as you well know now now there's a world of it outside I am I got to play a um the London Stadium I'll create it's not called London Stadium isn't it yeah it's called the Lindsay and awesome chat to Karen Brady once a while I'm seeing her soon um and uh I met someone while I was at the soccer Aid experience who happens to be a family member of a player a big Premier League player who has taken more abuse than any other player maybe over
the last year and I met a family member and I got a chat to them and um they told me about the toll it's taken on the whole family and you never think about that but that was actually one of the most important things I think I experienced was hearing from someone's younger sister that watching that older brother be abused how horrific is she was almost in tears because you know if you and my dad and I watched that happen to you yeah well I have to say you know and it's like I don't think of them I'd only a week half that I watched the man united job my dad did a heart attack yeah and it was but it was a triple bypass so I'm not saying it was because of when I left Manchester United but that was that was the case and it hey who knows who knows if it would then we we don't really think that was the reason behind it we think it was just coming on but so there is tolls which are taking in families of course there is but thankfully my dad's doing well and it's still going well just now something we didn't think about you know and people will say to to you and people like you and players they'll say well your payloads of money so behave yourself yeah just deal with it yeah yeah but that's but then the kids aren't as there is part of it and actually I I do think many many times I think myself is you know do people understand it we'll get a family you know uh I I made this the other day is I was saying to a friend of sinners as a manager I think as you get older you no in business you're you're older you you think you get more experience than you're you know doesn't make it any better when I was a young manager if I lost the game I would come home go straight to my bed peel the curtains and not wake up to Sunday morning no trying and I might not sleep I just didn't really want any I didn't have any I didn't really talk with my wife too much I didn't really talk to my kids I wasn't I wasn't unpleasant I just wanted to be on my own done that the opposite then was if you won on a Saturday I'd come home and say come on let's get ready let's let's nip up to the restaurant and we'll get a bit of dinner and a couple glasses of wine and I used to always call it the the Saturday night feeling I'm desperate to
get that Saturday night feeling I'm desperate to have that feeling when you have one in a Saturday knowing that Mainland is Sunday you're picking up the newspapers and the newspapers are saying you've won and you're you're going well but and I thought maybe by the time I get to the Aging over a thousand games and I'll be seeing myself this is going to be much much feel much easier not at all just as bad I'm not saying I'm going home every every night I was now and pulling the Cottons and going straight to bed but it's to just sort of tell you how how the game is the game is actually nearly completely how important they're winning and backed it I said when the upbringing was where find a way of winning win means that I have more good Saturday night feelings than I do go home and put on the continents and going straight to bed yeah I don't think about that you know you know when you you said something a second ago which is you know you'd you'd reached what I consider to be the very top of the game managing Everton because I think about how many tens of thousands of managers there are coaches out there that are you know on the Sun the Sunday League pitches and all around the country that are aspiring to manage in the Premier League it's insane it's an insane insane achievement um you manage to evidence you went to Manchester United didn't go well in that period after even though you're at the very top of the game did you doubt yourself in a post Manchester United uh by my pause might make you think yes but I didn't doubt that I was actually I felt that I could do do the job I could be good at it I felt as if I could I my work on the grass was was good enough to for where I had been I had success years before so I was always trying to say it didn't go quite well this 10 months why did it not go well was it how romani's was it how I coached was it maybe I didn't have the right players I had to try and look to see why there is but the other part of the 10 or 11 years I'd seen some great players that had been in FA Cup finals I'd I'd got to qualifying as a European competition
wherever and we'd we'd qualify for the Champions League one year so I was thinking as well was I going to make say that was all no good then the years would have done it so I think once I put it in perspective then I says no I'm not I'm not doubting it but what I do think is I think I think most days you have to get up and be ready to sort of challenge yourself every day I don't I don't think you can go to bed every morning and think hey this is fine you know I'm I'm doing okay here I think every day you're sort of get up and seeing as you know how am I going to try and be better how can I make people better what am I how can I make a difference today with what I've got paranoid almost yeah near enough near enough to an extent what you're saying there's no I can't no you folks say do you bring your work home I I really think if you're in if you're in the boss if you're the boss you're always bringing your work home because it's not you're not just taking putting your head off and saying I'm leaving that in the office and I'll pick it up in the morning I think very really you're doing that I think that's just life of your if you're a CEO or a boss I very much agree I very much agree with that idea of taking the working and also when things don't go wrong in hindsight everybody's quick to diagnose why I didn't go wrong um has the subsequent 10 years where everyone is failed at Manchester United felt good because everyone has failed Jose's failed van Hal went there you went there um I'm missing someone I think I'm missing someone I mean Ollie was in it Ollie was in he failed as well so that's you know five or six great great managers who you couldn't make it work at Manchester United for whatever reason so I think time has almost been good to you in terms of your yeah the story of the time like I'm I I I get huge respect for uh Josie Mourinho huge result for Louis van Gaal you know all he was new and is one of one of Manchester United's own so was always going to be given every opportunity to try and make it work as well so I think that I think there's been some great managers coming into Manchester United I think the biggest problem for
Manchester United is Manchester City how do we I'm a Manchester United fan season ticket holder how from your experience do we get things back to how they were I think you'll need to probably get rid of Pep somehow I think that's my that's what we uh I think I think papers I think there is some managers I think but you must have an unbelievable perspective better than me at like what because you knew Fergie you knew the club everything you've been inside it what what do we need to do to get back to I think Manchester United different principles and than most of the other clubs looked at their use a lot uh didn't always sign maybe the as I said before maybe the the top yeah Diamond always sort of picked and picked out good players who improve and now and again went and bought a Canton over so often or uh by nistel Roy or Van Percy at different times you know uh so at different times they they bought really good players at Good Times this is actually a really good point because we've also bought some world-class places and they've all failed yeah so there is it there is something about Manchester United had their own way but because of the competition which came in from Manchester City uh Chelsea probably more in the in the earlier years I think those two clubs I think I think Liverpool have have an incredible pier and get a really good manager as well and top players I think over the year Man United and Liverpool have always had a level of competition against each other people say we've not spent money in terms of players we've spent shitloads of money we spent almost a billion huge whatever huge and all these players I remember the foul cows the demerick because I get excited every time and I celebrate and I start you know blowing up my friends WhatsApp chats and saying you're screwed we're going to win the league yeah and then every year the player fails and then the managers sacked yeah so it feels like a bit of a it's the expectation of the excitement on the new players coming in I get this all the time and I say this quite a lot too people are here in media you know it's on a bit oh you need to buy new players
no we buy new players and I said I I would really like football to be where money was not always going to be the key to you know we think the more players you see the more money you spend uh means that you win the league or you're successful and look I think it probably will prove that it is but I'd rather see that you know sometimes that it's not that way and I just do think that quite often you know not buying all the top players it doesn't mean that you have to buy the top but I think it's buying good players and people who get good characters and people who are going to gonna work hard for the team and then they come into that culture which makes one makes yeah which makes the difference of that year yeah less than the year they had was was probably what we're all hoping for whether it be us and now you've seen other clubs I mean actually Newcastle United for example Newcastle United bought a couple of uh with respect to three or four English players last January British players uh probably not necessarily on the radar of the biggest clubs in the country and it and and they've turned around and they've had a great they've had an incredible momentum from probably January last year and maybe just before January and are keeping that momentum going and now they're bringing in the Reddit in the odd bigger star or the bigger players as they go along but I thought the business at the start was very good if I'm one of your players in your dressing room to be a David Moyes player at West Ham and what would from a character and a personality standpoint your expectation be of me so that I fit into the culture and I'm successful I'd want you to be I'd like you to be hard working I want you to be honest in your endeavor I I know I'd want you to do your jobs whatever you want I want you to be a team player the individuals are really important and no more hugely important we've just seen in the World Cup individuals but but I I do think that I I think to have a consistency about your teamers you need to have a team
I think if you've got individuals you might get inconsistency but you may get some really good days and where you get Club so you can afford to carry one or two individual players who go along but I think well you're trying to build build I think you have to start with a really solid base good foundation and then from that point you try and grow Pamela you met her at a disco yeah she was lucky yeah so I keep telling them it's uh most people disagree she's been through it all with you you know the everything she's followed you around for decades and supported you in many many ways and um I've heard about the sort of dynamic in your relationship where she's been really really supporting you kind of do a lot of it together you're there for each other tell me in your own words what like uh what she means to you I guess well it's the sort of thing you ask that question you'd probably get emotional if you start saying that so I'm going to say that before I start uh look my wife has been unbelievable towards me because I remember when we were young at about what we said is we didn't earn great money I wasn't I wasn't a hugely wealthy footballer when I was getting paid but I wanted to play football and would have taken away so Pamela worked as well and we had to opt to pay the mortgage when we were together we were there so we're it was very much that a together at the start how we could sort of have a family how we could we could work together and I remember saying to her I said no I I might need to be a football coach and I remember when we were courting I said look I'll need to go to coaching course and I might not be here and I need to I want to try and go and see her it doesn't remember saying no problem you're going to do what you have to do and if I wasn't given that freedom in nearly years to say good coaching courses I mean I went out to see enchilada ACI Moana I went to the World Cup uh and I have to say you know I remember I went to the World Cup and I and because I didn't have like somebody at the time and and we weren't skinned but we didn't
have loads of in the PFE helped fund me so I think at the time the PFA helped fund me get to the World Cup to go and watch I remember writing to I wrote to about five or six countries and said you know could I come and watch your training and none of them replied the only country I replied was Scotland and Craig Brown was a manager now I was a Scottish coach and worked in and not and I was still young at the time and they invited me to come and watch training school and none of the other teams did but my wife let me get away and get on with it and try and seek and find out what I needed to do probably in the hope that somewhere after my football career was finished that I might have been able to do something else but she was she still has a great inspiration to me uh and show my kids my kids are good kids and you know good family and it's really important to me what role has she played Pamela in the in the harder times in your career you know I think I think when you're when you're a football manager you're going to have hard times so undoubtedly it's a hard time's been a football manager hey hard times sometimes mean you get sacked and you get you get some money for leaving the job you can look at that and say hey he's okay with that but it's not you've got Pride you know as I said yeah I was probably losing a job I was more an embarrassment I felt embarrassed from from a family really that you know they were getting talked about they were getting looked at no people were shouting now your dad's lost his job or whatever it may be at that time so my wife's just always stood by me and really supported me whenever it comes to the games uh probably knows when she should speak when she shouldn't speak when it's going well when it's going badly and even that's a skill in itself because you know when you're in a when you're the boss that's quite often would respect your partner quite often could say the wrong thing at any minute and you and you go no you might be saying why are you not thinking about no you're in the wrong case so I think it's really important
that your partner understands exactly how you feel well where do you think you'd be professionally without her uh I couldn't imagine in it I couldn't imagine my my life really without my wife and and you know sometimes I'm not 59 at the moment so I thought we'd get a good bit to go we've got a good bit to go and I want you to look forward to the to the years where latter years together where we can have more time together because being a football manager means that you know we're just about every weekend so yeah either way staying in a hotel preparing for a game or you're you know you're with a team and actually the way football's gone you're in every Sunday now you could be in all the time there's very little family time and it and actually it's one of the things I think what people don't understand hey by the way it's a great job really well paid game everybody wants to be involved energy but it's incredibly time consuming you know and it takes up so much of your time interview if you have a family probably they're the ones who suffer most because they don't see you as much as well probably other families may do if you work uh Monday sort of nine till five you go home at the weekends at least uh being a football manager the weekends uh you're doing it and actually I'm trying to get a membership with a golf club at the moment back in my home I can't get in because in the sea well no you've got to play away you've got to play with members and you've got to play with friends to get an absent I've got no friends in the business we're in it's really hard to have lots of friends outside of our industry the reason why is because a social time when focusing here we're going out Friday night we're going out Saturday night you're coming with us no I'm in the hotel we've got a game tomorrow we can't do that or we go out Saturday night yeah but I lose obviously I'm not gonna lose Saturday night so lots of reasons why uh even a football manager does a great job but it's also got lots of anti-social Behavior things because of how the job Works Alia you said that you you haven't been historically so good especially when you're a younger at
um giving praise I can relate one of the things that men are particularly bad at is um letting and I'm speaking about myself here is letting their significant other know how much they appreciate them I think women are usually better at kind of that that affection and saying the kind words and stuff and as men I know this for myself I don't think my partner actually has a clue how much she means to me and how much she's been there for me in the hottest times and just her presence sometimes when she says nothing in the hard moments how that changes my state um if Pamela is watching this what are the words you wish you could tell her that maybe you haven't told her uh she would probably know that a lover of course she would I would hope she would but more importantly that I miss her because I'm in London a lot of the time she's she's up north she's caring for her mom a lot at the moment I just really over the time she's been she's been great we've we've had great times together and but always want to say I think my best times in in football Hope was still to come but hopefully her best time is a couple are still to come as well David thank you thank you for lots of inspiration over the many many many years and lots of good memories in football um you've been an incredible manager all the clubs you've been at in my view and I do wish that Manchester United had given you more of a chance because I just generally believe everything you say about the importance of when when you come into a new system or organization needing that time to understand and make it your own so even as a Manchester United fan I was always I'm always really annoyed at how quickly we've um moved on with our managers before giving them a chance because they're all objectively great managers and you certainly are as well um and it's just an honor to meet you because you know I've watched you on the screens for for decades so thank you we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest um and the question left for you is what is the biggest public misconception
about something that has happened in your life uh after thinking about it I think that there was a I felt it was a few untruths at the end when I lost my job at Manchester United actually and I found it very difficult to correct I felt that you know they had been written so it was very difficult to correct them uh you know which they weren't right and uh from that point of view I couldn't turn about it and I found that actually probably one of the biggest difficulties because you try you want to say well here I'll explain why I made this decision I'll explain why I chose to do that uh but really once the headline's there that's the only thing that matters you've got to give me one yeah which I think I won that's what I think uh I've got I've got this one but I don't know if I don't want to give the player's name so uh I mean it was actually uh so somewhere like they said that Manchester United had banned chips on a Friday Rio had said in his book that had banned chips I read that yeah I did and uh it was actually something which probably most sports profession you wouldn't really have chips but then in part of it but understood Manchester United Sir Alex done a lot a lot of things maybe slightly different in I totally respected that and what happened is I remember it was one of my first first games were staying in the hotel and there was one player who was overweight which I won't name and I remember walking in and I was walking into the dining room and he had his dinner and next to me they had a side plate of chips and that was my reason for after that scene that one player without the side portionship that was my reason for saying there should be no chips on a Friday night and it was sort of written about that that was one of the the reason but my reason was actually because one of the players who was actually at the time a bit overweight a song with a with a side player chips and that's when I used our band them if you want to say that interesting thank you so much David for your time thank you so
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