Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDsYrU2o2R8
I did everything that voice told me to do that night had that voice have told me to jump off Thames Bridge I would have done it please welcome David it's U.S drama home the most influential voices on race and mental health I remember reading about a moment when you come home you find your father's typewriter with one word written on the typewriter which is an illness and I didn't quite know what it was but I knew something was off I haven't seen dad for a while and then one morning I got up and my mom said don't go into the kitchen and go straight to school out the front door for that night that's when my mom told me that that'd be David Harewood was the first black actor to play this part the hostility that I was met with as a young black actor was ferocious newspapers reviews just dismissing me he looks more like Mike Tyson than Romeo what's he doing on the stage so I really did feel like I was an anomaly the whole thing the stress the smoke the overthinking just ended up making me spiral that's what led to me just falling into psychosis I was lying in bed and I just heard this voice in my head he said he was Martin Luther King even though I'm speaking to you from Beyond the Grave I need you to close the gap between good and evil so you're gonna sacrifice yourself tonight and you're going to be an angel and that was the night I was eventually sectioned I just remember lots of flashing lights and then being in the back of a police wagon if that would have continued I'm not even sure I would have been here today before this episode begins I just want to say a huge thank you to all of our new subscribers 74 of you that watch this channel didn't subscribe before and we're now down to about 71 so that helps us in a number of ways that are quite hard to explain but simply the bigger the channel gets the bigger the guests get so if you haven't yet subscribed to the Diary of a CEO if I can have any favors from you if you've ever watched the show and enjoyed it it's just to please hit the Subscribe button without further Ado I'm Stephen Butler and this is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's listening but if you are then please keep this yourself [Music]
foreign [Music] what do I have to understand about your very earliest years to understand the man you are this perspective you have and the work you do today what is the most important context wow that's an interesting question what do I need to what do you need to know about me then um that I was probably naive open innocent uh and probably more um probably more conflicted than I thought I was I I was a vessel and into that vessel was just been poured so much I'll say false information wrong information that um at some point it had to smash break I grew up at a time when there weren't many black people on television and there weren't many black images that on television or anywhere and I think I think that is I think that seriously put me at a disadvantage but I I grew up with a false sense of myself and that that false false picture uh has only recently emerged does that make sense not entirely unless I get further context what was the picture of yourself you grew up with I would say you know I just think I was just way too naive and way too way too that's hard that's a really interesting question I had really thought about that but I think it's only it's only in recently recent years and having asked myself some of the questions that I've been asking myself over these last couple of years and I've really started to get a real grip of the person that I am so who did you think you are when you when you were younger what did you think of the world in yourself when you're younger that was so naive and ill-informed
um I think I was I didn't really think it was important I don't think my color was important and that's why I say I was naive I didn't think my color was that important I had no concept of myself as a sort of young black man and that's why I say I grew up at a time and there weren't any images of myself so I couldn't really structure my identity [Music] around a sort of solid identity and even my you know my mother was always sort of trying to steer me into a more Afrocentric mindset now I got back to Birmingham where I where I'm from and I look at how many of us are in interracial relationships of that generation we were constantly told to assimilate it was all about assimilating assimilate you're not even my you know I I heard the one I heard the phrase one time you're not black you're normal which is so bizarre so that your identity as a black person was sort of ironed out you you just you just you're British you're English and and so when I came out of drama school I think and the world said to me you're black it was a real sort of wake-up call for me and seriously contributed to what happened two years after I left going back to your your mother and your father how was their relationship and your early experience with them shaped the man that you are today who are they as people wonderful people in a very very um my mother was extremely strong and uh my dad was a kind of a quiet silent type really uh very proud um didn't really speak much didn't really um it wasn't wasn't particularly involved in our education wasn't particularly involved in shaping who we were you know he
was very much hands off you know it was a long distance large driver so he was away a lot and when he came back he would sort of sit and what's the telly and in peace and just you know I often tried to talk to him when I was a kid but he he was a very difficult man to sort of open up um whereas my mother was my mother was always sort of talking and and sort of cajoling and very welcoming of her friends and she was just a really wonderful character and still is very very funny but you know she tells me now stories that she used to you know some of the fights that she had some of the battles that she had when I was writing my book you know as I said we were the only black family on that street and she was constantly in conflict with with neighbors with um racists and she didn't back down she was very very sharp and fearless sounds like my mother Fearless your father um you write a lot about how hard working he was um the the lack of affection you've described there the lack of openness um as you look back now was there a is there was that was there a cost to that to him and to the family to you I think so I think so I think I think the fact that he didn't that's difficult because it feels as like I'm criticizing him and I don't really want to do that but I think it was a loving home there was a lot of laughter in the house but that's you know he he loved you know all the British sitcoms and of the time and one of my favorite sounds was the sound of him laughing I loved hearing him laugh hear my mum laughed it was the house seemed full of laughter when I was growing up so there was a lot of you know there was a lot of humor in the house but there wasn't necessarily a lot of tenderness and you know I I kissed my kids every
morning when they go to school it's just that why but I I don't know why that's important to me maybe it's just become habit but I want them to know how much I love them and I want them to know um how much respect I have for them and how much how proud I am it's important for me to do that and maybe it's because my dad didn't do that not not because not because he he um purposely didn't do it I just think just don't think he thought it was that important maybe do you think he knew how to do that I don't know if he did I don't know if he did and um but I think that's kind of true of a lot of men of that generation showing emotion wasn't very easy for them and also I think it's really interesting a friend of mine tells me this story of it's very particular to the 60s and 70s which is why I'm you know I was a director and and I'm very I'm fascinated by this period of late 50s 60s 70s England because I don't think people understand the level of racism that was present in this country and he's got goosebumps then because they don't understand it and the idea of being othered that you would leave your house and literally take your life into your hands I mean I remember randomly getting off a bus and instantly being chased by a group of skinheads and you would just automatically find yourself runny now to to be to to have come here from the Caribbean with ideas of streets are paved with gold England being the mother country to have come here with that idea and to be met with that amount of hostility to be met with with that amount of abuse that amount of rejection I think it's seriously damaged not just my father but many people who came here in that generation that Windows generation because it's fascinating to me how many
Caribbean parents do not want to talk about that period just do not want to go there because I think it was horrific and I think it damaged him I haven't really thought about that before well I you know really considered it before but I do think that was a tough period for a lot of a lot of us and whereas in America you know movies have been made plays have been written about that generation about that um period we've not really looked at it I have to be completely honest I you know I grew up in 90 I was born in 1992 came to the UK when I was two years old from Botswana um I I always saw my mum have this I'll describe it as this like competitive uh I'd say it's slightly competitive attitude towards people and this like General belief that other people were racist and I never understood it I never understood I never fully understood it I just thought she she viewed the world as big being racist and as I've done this podcast and specifically spoken to people from the 50s 60s 70s 80s and and early 90s my mind has been blown because I don't get I didn't get it of course you know and it's interesting as I listened to the wonderful Chris yeah and the world that he was talking about I know that I've I I remember it you know growing up in those in in I was born just after Chris and five years after Chris but those which is why he's such a legend for me why him still Regis they are legends because as kids I watch them playing football knowing full well that 50 of that the crowd were giving him so much abuse regularly and yet he was able to play football smile score goals play aggressively I was in all of those guys because I just thought I would be scared as a kid I was scared and that's one of the things I've touched upon in my book is is owning up to that idea that I was terrified growing up in those days because you just never knew where a brick would come from where
where you know your a car would a car would suddenly you'd be walking down the street whistling yourself having a great day next thing you know [ __ ] [Music] just monkey noises would just come from nowhere and you would just tighten tense up so I grew up in that environment and that's why I'm I'm well aware of it which is probably it goes back to that your first question about what you need to know about me that's the environment I grew up in so I it was trying to form a sense of myself it's constantly being sort of it's growing up at a period where you're othered where you're in fear and not understanding Who You Are was destabilizing I think and I'm in a sense lucky that my house fell down when it did and I was able to put it back together again where a brick would come from you talk about a story being I think five years old where brick comes through the window of your family home well [Music] I wrote about it in the book and how how you know exactly mornings was always cartoon morning you know Saturday morning cartoons back in the day again you're too young tonight um but it was always you know Tom and Jerry and Pepe Le Pew and I love Tom and Jerry it was great it was just they were just on constantly so you would sort of you know you'd sort of run down and and watch Telly and and my my mum's my mum was famous for her breakfasts English breakfast bacon eggs just chips Paula English which we used to love and I remember my mum calling us down for breakfast and running down the stairs and then hearing this smash and we ran into the lounge and there was an English breakfast in glass because a brick had come through the window and just there was glass all over our big kitchen table
and we just all sort of stood there in shock and Mom said go back to bed drapes back up the road back up to back up to bed but that was a sort of you don't know where it came from in the where it came from but we were targets your mum's reaction there when I read about this seemed uncomfortably calm well what are you gonna do you know and she wasn't always calm and there was times when she she did you know grab people by the colors and have people up there have people up the wall she's fearless and uh you know don't you ever call my son that's like get that name again and she was you know she was Fearless but at the same time you're powerless in that in that setting because you don't know who threw that brick and um you're almost you know I think back to it now and think you know she she used to sort of walk me to school and be waiting at the school gate to walk me home and for me that was it was great to see my mom's face at the end of school um but I realized later maybe why she did that because when you did go home on your own years later it was a bit of a minefield you had to be careful you were a target people don't understand that especially people especially people that haven't experienced race racist debut the idea of leaving the school Gates and the the journey home being anxious and looking over your shoulder anxious there's a good word that's a good word yeah which I you know we I didn't realize at the time but I think it was a huge amount of anxiety and then the thing that the amazing thing about it is you might go a week without it you might go two weeks without it you might go three weeks with it and then you and you relax yeah sure and then you're normal and then Bang casual Wednesday afternoon middle of the day [ __ ]
and suddenly you're right back to being scared and uh I I don't really think my you know I I I I I think my whole sense of self because you know you do your best to sort of you do your best to normalize that stuff and think I'm not gonna let it affect me and I always had this and then my mother's words ringing my head don't let it affect you hold your head up be strong so you keep thinking no no I'm gonna I'm not gonna let this affect me is that good advice well you know I think yes yes but um it doesn't always work it doesn't always work and the the the you know it crystallized for me when rather foolishly I went I was a leader I don't know why I was a lead United fan and and um always used to watch watching Leeds United they were the champions back then and they came to Birmingham one year to to to to play Birmingham city and like a jackass I thought I'm gonna go and sit in the Leeds end and back in the day back in the day you could um at half time you could literally walk into the ground so I thought you know I think I was about 12 maybe about 9 10 or something like that and I at half time I thought I'm gonna sit with the lease fans the idea of it now but I walked into the leads and at first it was just a couple of monkey noises and then it became like a chorus of monkey noises and then he became a chorus of go [ __ ] and then it seemed like thousands of people was screaming abuse at me and I heard these words in my my mother's words hold your head up don't be scared so I thought I'm gonna go and take my seat and I kept walking down the touchline but it got so loud that in the end I thought I don't want to sit with these people so I turned around and walked away and
they cheat I remember them cheering but I remember I was really shaken and I remember that I remember to this day this groundsman well Ward you know to start member of Staff as I walked out the ground he shot you're like you're right kid and I just went I was nodded and just walked home but I was really shaken by it because I'd done exactly what my mother told me to but it didn't work in in your early teens after that your father's mental health began to deteriorate what were the were there any events that led up to that I I remember reading about a moment where you come home the lights are on and there's you find your father's typewriter with one word written on the typewriter yeah you just said illness uh my dad was a prolific sort of organizer and uh he started this this Darts League and I was always on the typewriter writing out the results and writing out that who's played who and who had won and who was going through to the next round and who needed the trophy and who was gonna where they were gonna play and what times they played and he just he loved the darts but he just took too much on and um he was constantly sort of working at this organizing this whole thing and organizing the trophies at the end of the season organizing the meeting organizing that he was just always I think he was just doing it all on his own and um I I just think he just took on too much and um I didn't I didn't necessarily I didn't necessarily see it coming because I was quite Young but um it happened very very quickly and I always used to hear my dad go to work in the mornings which is he was Keys jingle jangle down the stairs that was sort of my alarm
to get up for school was my dad hearing my dad come downstairs and think all right I've got to get up in a minute and for a couple of days I didn't hear it and then we kept hearing arguments in my in the in my mum and Dad's bedroom and I thought this is something's not right I'm saying that for a while I've heard the jingle jangle down the stairs something's off I didn't quite know what it was but I knew something was off and then one morning I got up and my mom said don't go into the kitchen get changes up in the bedroom and go straight to school at the front door and um I did and then that night that's when my mom told me that that had been sectioned so it happened it happened really quickly and they sort of kept me away from it but unbeknownst to me my brothers were holding my dad down in the kitchen because he would he he sort of lost it how do they explain being sectioned to you when you're in your early teens because I you know I I would have no idea what that meant in my early teens they didn't really and it's it was you know Dad's not well father's not well he's been taken to hospital and you know there's always that gig when there was that all there's always that sort of that uh Gadget school that you know the men in the white coats will take you away you know you'll create that's you know you're crazy or are you gonna be you're going to be taken away and that's what happened my dad was taken away um I didn't see it but I I knew he was I knew that he'd been unknown now obviously I'm having my recent years I know that that's what had happened to him he'd been sectioned and when I was sectioned um I I suddenly realized that I suddenly read especially when I was writing the book I thought that's what
has happened to him and and that now it's only once I'd written my book and really understood what that was like having your Liberty taken away from you because I think that in prison is about the only being locked up in prison about the only times when your Liberty is taken away from you and it was only then I started asking myself sort of started looking at my Dad's life in sort of retrospect and thinking because he hated it my dad hated it and was never the same again when he when he was released he was never the same again and I don't think I think he had a really bad time in there a really really difficult and bad time which I don't think he ever forgave my mother for understanding what you understand now about the nature of mental health and what causes it and your own experiences with mental health when you look at why how your father became to be sectioned have you got any suspicions about why that happened beyond that he took on too much at the darts I do think that there was a lot of resentment and anger built up in him and you've got to wonder why and this is I only found this out again once I started writing my book and started looking at Mental Health and the numbers of black black people are over represented in the mental health system in this country and what I realized is that it was Jamaican psychologist who who actually performed this um study and he realized that black people there's way less Mental Health in Africa amongst black black communities there is mental health problems but way less psychosis and but there's more in when they are transmitted to a western culture so there's more Mental Health episodes of mental health in England amongst the black community and in America amongst the black community and I think there's something about I call it in my and this is one of the things that my therapist talks about when you're in a white space
and that's not a derogatory term but England is essentially a what space and I'm sure you've been in rooms where you're the only person color the higher ladder when they call it tall poppy syndrome where the higher up the ladder you get the less yeah on your own people you see and I think you know my thing I think I think my dad had found it very difficult coming from the Caribbean and coming to England and dealing with a completely different mindset I think he'd found that difficult and um resentment had built up and I I think I was going to say a point earlier on that illustrates this but a friend of mine used to told me that his dad used to work on an assembly line and in the days of in the 70s when Jim Davidson was doing his chalky routine that and he was the only black person on the assembly line every Monday morning after new faces or whatever it was that Jim was on the comedians or everything was doing his chalky thing every Monday morning he would be chalky and his dad would laugh and take it and and then you know throughout the week they'd be calling him chalky any big daily development name chalky chalky he's chalky his dad would laugh and then on Friday night his dad would get drunk and beat the [ __ ] out of him and his mother and I think that was just a buildup of resentment of having to live in this place where yeah everyone's calling me this name everyone thinks it's funny and I'm laughing but there's a buildup of resentment that he then takes out on his family now I'm not saying my I'm not saying my dad had that level of resentment but I think it was just something about being here that he started to find difficult to live with cope with mentally when I read through
your book and also a lot of the stories you've told me today I mean I remember one particular story where you gotta you got a girlfriend in school and then you come into school the next day her father has said that she can't be with you because you're black this constant constant rejection social rejection you used that word earlier on the word rejection and it feels so apt because that's really what's I think in a psychological psychological level going on even going to the football and then being rejected socially from that crowd and it's constant throughout your story you know I've read these studies about labeling Theory where when the world tells when you tell somebody they are something in these studies they they eventually become it so you know there's the famous prison study where they said you're the guards who are the prisoners they had to stop the study because the guards were so harsh on the prisoners and labeling 3 says exactly that your teacher says you're a d and you're going to be a failure the chances are that'll actually lower your performance your self-belief how do you stop that happening when Society has rejected you for years and years and years growing up the most formative time I think you know I think I was lucky because I I do think that uh I lived amongst a lot of people who uh you know who didn't Define you that way so I think that was I was very very lucky for that but I think I think that person had to I think that house had to come down which is why I think my breakdown was all about the more I learned about it the more I realize that that image of that young boy a desire to start again I had to rebuild my image of self and um that's what I've sort of it's interesting because I even though it happened 30 years ago I'm only now just dealing with it because I only found the records I only did that documentary I only all this is recent and I think if I'd talk to you last year I'd probably be in tears by now because so much of this is recent for me I'm
having to deal with a lot of it I just I've spent the last 30 years in this sort of cocoon not really dealing with a lot of this stuff and it's only since reading my medical records and doing that documentary and uncovering all that trauma as I say the first thing I read when I opened my medical records from 30 years ago which were the medical records that the BBC found in the bowels of the Whittington psychiatric hospital I had no idea they were going to give them to me no idea I had no idea they even found them the first thing I read was patient believes he has merged hearts with a young black boy and I just thought what is that what is and I just looked through the medical records and it's all to do with my race and my identity all of it I was just confused I'd sort of Lost touch with my identity going off to drama school and playing Romeo and Pushkin and doing all these doing Molly air and Dostoevsky doing all these European romantic you know playwrights and Shakespeare and all these different characters and thinking my character my color doesn't matter I can do all these wonderful things and then I came out of drama school and every newspaper article was all about my color every job I went through was all about my color I could go for these jobs and not these jobs and I it just it was like it it was like I hadn't was like I hadn't um dealt with it and dealt with my core identity as a young black man and it all started to just I started overthink it what was your core identity that you hadn't dealt with as a black man I think just understanding myself as you what your first question was understanding myself in the world and knowing having confidence in myself there's too many questions about my identity I think one of the things I did when I saw a therapist after my documentary
was I sought out I've had therapy many times in my life but I sought out a black therapist a black male therapist and that has been really strikingly revealing to me because some of the questions I had he would kind of say well what do you think why do you think like that and he would question why I think like that and I found it remarkable how he was able to make me understand that a lot of things that I most a lot of my fears a lot of my insecurities only natural uh maybe potentially because I have maybe grown up predominantly in the white environment and maybe I didn't maybe I wasn't comfortable with myself I'm much more comfortable with myself now what were those fears and insecurities foreign black man you know great at dancing great at sex great chatting women upgraded it's great at that and I felt maybe that I didn't always live up to that and if you have that idea that you can only be one way as a black man but the world is telling you that you could only be this way then you sort of don't feel like you measure up and actually I've learned yeah you can be vulnerable that's okay you can be sensitive that's okay you um it's okay to be not be you know darkest McFly you know who just beats down all the girls dances fantastically does you know he's the Alpha Black it's okay not to be the alpha black guy it's okay and uh that's taken me a while to sort of understand about myself I think Jay-Z it's interesting I think there's a thing about Jay-Z talks about
the gold silver bronze the gold I think it's a book called How to be black it's a very very funny book we talked about the gold silver bronze um black man you know the gold born in the ghetto black wife black friends you know silver ball in the ghetto black wife went to University bronze you know and you sort of you sort of get less and less you're almost like you get less it must be copper or something yeah and and then you see but then you see the effects of that in schools where you go where you have teachers will tell me that you know you get a really intelligent black kid but just to fit in with his peer groups he won't work as hard because he fears the more intelligent he is the less black he is the brighter he is the less black he's seen the more and I hate that isn't that funny being rejected by the White Community but also the black community well that's exactly what I had so you know when I came out of Radha so I had I had tough I had this sort of when I was started being an actor you know blackmens I'm like you're gonna be a what that's too white you're too white man and then I went to Radha and kind of did all these Shakespeare all these plays and I came out speaking like this and everybody went he's way too white and so you're getting rejected by the press and critics because you're black and then you were also being rejected by the black community because they you don't look or see them sound like you know man from the ends you don't sound like you don't talk like that so I really did feel like I was an anomaly a quick word from one of our sponsors I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences I think 10 times better as some of you may know by now Blue Jeans by Verizon offers seamless high quality video conferencing but the reason why I use blue jeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with and now they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called Blue Jean Studio actually used it the other day I did a
virtual event using the studio which I think about 700 of you came to TV level production quality all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop so if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually check out blue jean studio now let me know what you think because I genuinely believe I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to say this but I genuinely believe it's the best tool I've seen for doing really immersive simple but high quality production virtual events my girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower and she said to me that she tried the heel protein shake which lives on my fridge over there and she said it's amazing low calories you get your 20 odd grams of protein you get your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's nutritionally complete then the protein space there's lots of things but it's hard to find something that is nice especially when consumed just with water and that is nutritionally complete and that has about 100 calories in total while also giving you your 20 grams of protein if you haven't tried the heel protein product do give it a try The Salted Caramel one if you put some ice cubes in it and you put it in a blender and you try it is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market just mixed with water it's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet so this is where he all fits in my life thank you heal for making a product that I actually like The Salted Caramel is my favorite I've got the banana one here which is the one my girlfriend likes but for me salted caramel is the one at age 23 I think it's age 23 you um that's that's around the time you were sectioned yeah this is a very strange way of asking the question but in hindsight knowing now what you know about why you were sectioned what was going on in your life your mind your environment the Press professionally personally what would you have had to change a void do differently before then to have avoided that happening that's a million dollar question this really is a million dollar question
and I'm not sure there was any anything I could have done I think that I think it had to come down so I I'm I'm a great believer that in trauma there's a lesson that there was something in that for me of value I don't think any I don't think I mean I was very lucky that I came out of it but I do believe and as I have got older in my life and having written the book and having had so many people tell me since writing that book has so many people say thank you I'm not crazy thank you he really you really articulated everything that goes on in my some of the frustrations that comments I've only given voice to a thing to things that a lot of people experience just I took it to an extreme I think and I think it's probably uh as an artist as an actor has benefited some of my work it's enabled me to take things perhaps a step further than maybe what some people can take things I think it's given me a perspective I think there's something I think there was something of value for oh in it for me I don't I think it had to happen I don't think I could have done anything to have stopped it which is both um scary and um worrying what do you remember about that time because it seems to be quite a blur when you recount the events you it's almost like you have these abstract memories of just different moments well it's interesting because I do believe I I started this process thinking that it was going to be fun because it's like manic you know manic depression it is often psychosis like like it's often preceded with a Mania heightened Adrenaline Rush dopamine the dopamine levels in your brain are heightened and it's quite exciting I'm not getting sleep it's often drug induced and you are
really sort of operating at this quite high level and I I remember doing some pretty extraordinary things I remember brief moments of real sort of mental acuity and dare I say there was almost moments of fun but it's usually preceded by a crash so I sort of went into this thinking I'm gonna I'm gonna remember all our fun things I did some of the extraordinary things I did and there were some really Wild things I was experimenting with a sense of reality what was real and what wasn't real thinking I could do anything and it was uh bizarrely exciting give me an example of something that you recount that is well it's interesting because my one of the Consultants that was in the documentary tells me that um because I thought she asked me for an example and I I said I was walking walking down the street one one morning I hadn't slept all night and uh there was a guy across the road and he had this huge Doberman huge kind of massive muscular and I'm normally quite afraid of dogs and I just walked up to this I walked up to this guy said what's that dog's name and he jab or something and I looked at this dog and I screamed the dog's name and looks at this dog quite aggressively and right in its face and the dog just literally literally lay on the floor and started whelping whelping on its back just freaked out and the consultant said to me that often dogs can pick up um some some uh Energies Disturbed images and I'd obviously really this guy was really freaked out he said the dog was literally whelping and moaning on the floor and I just fixed this dog with no
fear and screened its name right in its face just freaked the dog out at night you were sectioned I read I read that you were you hailed a taxi and it was ultimately the exchange of the taxi driver I mean this was an extraordinary I mean that was an extraordinary and again it was the voice of Martin Luther King that was in my head you hear voices and when you uh one of the aspects of psychosis which is what I suffered from you can hear voices he'd have Illusions illusions delusions that seem incredibly real to you and um I was lying in bed and I just heard this voice in my head wake up in bed looking around the room thinking where's that come from and this voice was in my head it sounds totally bizarre but his voice was in my head and he went on to say look I don't want to tell you who I am right now because you're going to be really scared but you have to go to Camden you have to walk into this store don't be surprised if it's open it's three o'clock in the morning don't be surprised to open whatever you do do not turn around and it was all these things I had to do whatever you do don't do this whatever you do don't do that but then go to go into this store walk to the back of the store there's going to be one suit hanging up on a rack in the back at the back of the store you need to put this suit on and when you turn around don't be surprised to find out that it's two o'clock in the afternoon I said I'm gonna I'm going to close the space time continuum and we are going to close the gap between good and evil this whole thing and it was it ended up being Martin Luther King he said he was Martin Luther King and he said when you when you because I played mine as a king as a kid and it was my first the first acting thing that I'd ever done he said when you played me as a child I entered your heart and when I was he said even though I'm
speaking to you from Beyond the Grave I need you and two or three other people in in the world to activate something and close the the the gap between good and evil and he said so you're going to sacrifice yourself tonight and you're going to be an angel and this voice was swear to you was like real in my head and I'm sobbing in my bedroom listening to this voice so tonight's the night and that was the night I was eventually sectioned but I got up got my clothes on and walked all the way to Camden obviously the shop was closed it's 10 o'clock in the morning you know I'm out of my nuts so um and I was exhausted and I thought I've got to go home and flagged a cab down and I didn't have any money and uh I don't remember I just I just remember this driver looking around and then the driver pulling over and then um lots of flashing lights obviously the police and then being in the back of a police wagon and then sitting in a cell and all this was just I'm in and out of what seemed like a dream for me I didn't I I was in and out of I remember being in this cell and then going to magistrates court in the morning and not remembering when they didn't remember my name at all didn't know who I was couldn't remember who I was and um the duty solicitor sort of talking about my mom and then said my dad's name is Romeo and I went Romeo hang on a minute I've played Romeo yeah I played Romeo played running you David David that's I used my I used my sort of career to get back to who I was then left went to court and I had no idea what was happening in this court I mean I was the judge was speaking at me and I was just a mess and I walked out of court and again lucky but some woman who'd been in the court walked out and said
to me are you okay and I said I don't think so I don't know I don't know who I am and she gets she said where do you live and I said I can't remember she said what's your nearest Tube Station and I said yeah hybridizlington and she flagged the cab down gave the driver 10 pounds said take him to hybrid Islington and I got out of Hope in Islington walked home and my friends were waiting for me because I've been looking for me all night couldn't find me and that's the night that's the day that they knew something was even though they'd been sitting with me and visiting me for the last couple of weeks because they knew something was off they knew it wasn't well and that's the weird thing about mental health or particularly psychosis you see somebody acting very strangely something you love it could be your son your husband your mom your they just suddenly start acting out of character becoming obsessed with something or it's like they just suddenly change and you know you know something's wrong but you sort of Hope desperately hoping that they sort of come back and that's sometimes you know they don't and you have to make that call to have them sectioned and luckily for me my friends had been there because if they weren't there I think I would have been in real trouble oh my God I would have been in real trouble if that would have continued I'm not even sure I would have been here today so I was very lucky how long did that process last before you were sectioned of the slope the sort of gradual deterioration well I think it was happening for a while because I I remember working and not feeling great so I'd say at least two or three months there was a slow progression of not sleeping overthinking trying to hide that drinking to sort of
self-medicate a new one wasn't well but I thought I could handle it I'm trying to understand how much of that you believe is to a physiological biological situation or maybe predisposed by biology versus circumstance experience and the things that you'd been through I think and again I mean we didn't you know speaking to my con the consultant who was working on my documentary It's a combination of both things your propensity your your uh the chances of you having a breakdown are sort of reliant on levels of stress lack of sleep what's called Aces which are these fundamental like people who experience trauma in life I mean for me I think it was my parents divorce and not dealing with that not dealing with that at the time so much of it has just been squashed not dealing with some of the trauma that was in my life and I think a lot of it was coming out slowly coming out then in that one slow progression of being deeply unhappy why why were you deeply unhappy I read that and I thought what I as I say I came out of drama school and the hostility that I was met with as a young black actor was ferocious newspapers newspapers reviews just dismissing me completely dismissing me and I sort of left John's school with a bit of heat people are all really excited to see what I was going to do and school was very very excited to you know everybody was talking about this young young kid coming out of drama school it's going to be you know and I just got slaughtered slaughtered all about race all about race I played Sloan in Entertaining Mr Sloan Mrs lonia who is quite a devious bisexual character murder he's actually also a murderer and um not only there was one review a black reviewer who said who was outraged that I'd taken the part because I was letting the side down
and he said that people should go and demonstrate their disapproval of Mr harewood's choice of employment and I read it I was like wow put that down and I noticed that night people as Sloane has this really kind of tough monologue we talked about abusing somebody and in the middle of this monologue I saw people get up and walk out and I noticed that they were black and then the next night more black people started walking out and it was always in the middle of that monologue black people would get up and walk out and it was really tough to deal with it was really tough to try and they were such Chop Sing and but as they walked out and sort of it was really disturbing me because I had to get on with the play and that was only the second act there was another three so the whole way through that play I Was sort of coping with why did they walk out get on with the play seems to be quite an apt metaphor for that period of your life yeah and I wasn't really dealing with it so dealing with the fundamentals so I think that's when the drinking started to to be able to get through the play I started drinking to be able to I started self-medicating so I was drinking a lot before during after the show smoking after the show and the whole thing the stress the smoke the overthinking lack of sleep lack of sleep just ended up making me spiral how long from being section to getting back to acting how long was that sort of recovery process per se it was a lot quicker than I realized actually which I which surprised me I thought it was going to be months but it was I was sectioned for about five days initially and then again in Birmingham for another five days um and then the recovery was just about convincing my mother that I was okay because she was she was convinced that
it was acting it was acting that sent me crazy and then I was never going to act again and that I was never going to go back to London again I was never going to be allowed to act again uh so she kind of watched me like a hawk for about a month maybe a month six weeks and eventually uh she she allowed me to travel back down to London and get on with my career I sat here with uh Maisie Williams um the young Game of Thrones actress and she talked to me about how act acting was a form of escapism in her life because her home had such little joy that acting became this place almost this therapeutic place where she could I guess in some respects abandon that identity and I remember reading from this like Swedish philosopher which I wrote about my book Once Upon a Time who said that when we um if we try and abandon ourselves um well ultimately just bear around he wrote this 200 years ago so he was just you know yeah if it's still true that's right yeah that's why I really it always stayed with me if we try and abandon ourselves and we're successful we'll despair at the fact that we've abandoned ourselves and our identity if we try and abandon ourselves and we're unsuccessful we'll despair at being unsuccessful in our in our attempts to become other than we are and he concludes in his like big philosopher piece that the only true way to be happy is to accept that which you who you are and to not abandon yourself um he you know that's his conclusion after this long study that he's done on people um it that kind of felt almost quite true when I think about what acting is in many respects but for Maisie it was this this attempt to abandon the self and actually to not confront the issues and then she ultimately had to at some point confront those issues and what had gone on in her family home what her father had done to her but acting was her Escape at 12 or 13. is any of that reminiscent to or does any of that ring true specifically this idea of like the role acting played in identity for you acting is the only space I feel 100
confident in why because everyone knows the lines everyone knows where they're going to go everyone knows the movement everyone knows the play on stage I just feel it's probably my what's where I'm at my happiest why it's I can't explain it I just become you become somebody else you know when you're when you're the true nature of a thing of art it's like somebody who paints I think you know they want to create something and they're free to create like Van Gogh could be taught that it could be tortured but he can still produce an amazing piece of art you said that I'm not disappointing because I become someone else so what does that say about oneself if I'm myself I'm full of this insecurities there's doubts there's there's decisions to make there's about which is what which is why life I think is so unique I don't know what you're going to say next none of us know that's what's so beautiful about it and so fantastic about it but on stage it's a controlled environment so for those two hours can be king Lear I can be a fellow and I completely put myself into that and it's that's I feel it's like I'm at I guess you would I guess you could say I'm football to say that you know on the pitch no problems George best on the pitch a genius off it an alcoholic somebody who can't con somebody who can't cope Maradona on the pitch a genius off the pitch something else you can't cope with life life is uncontrollable life is full of contradictions full of difference full of failures and success it's just it's it's uh it's very difficult to distill whereas on stage I know you know I can play that and I can put myself into that and pour myself into that character and I feel great it's the most freeing place for me it's the most freeing thing I could it can I've ever experienced and that's why I love it so
much that's What Maisie said she said it was for her she said actually it was the only place she experienced Joy yeah I could not completely completely understand that but what that not to be repetitive but what is that saying about the nature of our our life in terms of why can't life be joyous as equally joyous what would we have to do to make our our acting life when we're King well that's the secret I guess and that's that's the secret of sort of finding a place where you can be and I'm sort of on the way you know where you can experience joy and I think that's that's a it's a lifelong struggle but you have to work at it 2019 you was the the first time 2017-2019 was the first time she really opened up about your experiences in terms of to the Press I'd always I I mean like that's that was the shock of it is that I tweeted 2017 tweet randomly tweeted as somebody who's had a breakdown just want to say look have a great that was meant World mental health day oh yeah somebody's had a breakdown I just want to say look after yourself today get some help if you can got on the plane flew to America got off the plane 50 000 retweets calls from ITV calls from the BBC course from the guardian calls from the Independent oh my God you had to break a nice completely forgot I hadn't gone public with it I've told everybody it's been a bit of an anecdote for me a bit of a late night drunken anecdote for me that I'd had a breakdown and spent time in a minute but it's only since doing that and I've really looked at it and really understood it that moment of oversharing has led to all of this has led to my first book it's going to lead to my second book it's led to this Reckoning which would not have happened had I not have sent that tweet 2019 you um produced the documentary hmm everybody talks about that documentary really incredibly powerful but just artistically brilliant in so many ways but so many people talk about it you know I even had members of my team put in big brackets it is so good when they were referring to a documentary they don't usually do that it was really profound and important in so many ways
how did that change your life again because um and it's this is really hard but I'd I'd seen that documentary almost a thousand times because I watched it every day a year before it went out the night it went out I was absolutely terrified and I as soon as I saw adverts for it I panicked and I was you need to call the BBC and said I don't want to go I I just take it off take it off I was really scared and and that that was really unusual with me because I'd seen it and I I was happy with it but going public with it was a whole nother thing and I was really scared really anxious and the hot I think the whole house picked up on it because my kids went to bed early my wife went to bed early you know and she watches you know she went and she was like she was afterwards she said she was wearing the you know the kids might get ribbed at school or you know your dad's there is that and I didn't even thought about that I suddenly thought [ __ ] you know I'm letting people in here and I was really scared and I remember I that night I had a therapy session online with my therapist and when we finished it it was kind of dark and I thought well it's got half an hour left to go I'm not even going to watch it I'm just gonna go to bed and I was just about to go to sleep and see every single device in my house was beat everything was just buzzing and it was I lost God and then the house house phone went and I jumped out of bed to I didn't want to wake the house and it was my mom and first thing she said was brilliant and that really calmed me down I went on my watch when she said I've just watched it she said it's brilliant well done son huge side relief and then started looking at all these messages and emails and they were all really emotional and like and moving and um went to bed and got up enrollment to take my dog for a walk like I normally and I could not
walk 10 feet without complete strangers coming up to me in tears I swear to God going I just want to say Mr Hayward thank you and I'm normally when you're an actor people leave you alone you know what it's like when you're on the telephone that's that God for telly but suddenly it was Mr Harewood not the guy from the Homeland or the guy from Supergirl or the guy from it was Mr Harewood excuse me I just want to say thank you so much tears strolling down their face my dad had a breakdown and we never talked about it and just want to say the fact that you we all suddenly started talking about it and start talking about Dad and I'm blubbing there crying then I go thank you very much walk up somebody else excuse me Mr hair we just want to say and I I suddenly realized how common it is and how everybody was touched by it because you just don't talk about it it's a shame attached to to particularly psychosis and particularly to being taken away it's a shame attached to it for some reason maybe because I'm an actor I have no shame so me a recognizable successful actor talking about it allowed them to talk about it got a call from mine saying phone's ringing off the hook people are talking about psychosis because they didn't they didn't that now they understand what happened to their son now they understand what's happening to their who's only just been sectioned that morning and on this book tour I've constantly do signings and um nearly every single time I sign I go to one of these book tours there's somebody who comes up to buy the book for it to get signed and they're crying and they go I've just come out of a mental institution I just want to say seeing you it gives me hope that I can get better or there's a mother who says my son's just been crying her eyes out my son's just been sectioned he was away at drama he was away at school because it happens normally when kids go to
university or when they go away from home and they might smoke they might drink they might find themselves in a strange environment that's when it happens and uh the amount of times I've had to kind of get up and just hug the stranger and just say they'll get better I sometimes sit here with people and there's a moment where they let the wall down and the wall can be a number of things sometimes it's sexuality sometimes it's something that they've been holding inside of them you know they might have told friends but letting the world in and then feeling that feedback that that you know people did weren't attacking them they didn't lose their job and and that sometimes can be quite a liberating thing from then on once we've let the wall down whatever it is and really let people in and see our our deepest insecurities or our fears life can feel different we can be more open and honest and vulnerable and can't say that happened because I then had three years of dealing with it yes tell me about that because I thought oh okay I've let the world in and as you say Where's that moment of relief yeah and it was torture because I couldn't cope with all these people coming up and saying thank you so much normally you've got that shield and said you've got that Shield as a recognizable face where people don't bother you on the train people don't bother you in the street but they were and they were coming with these really emotional stories some people some people's parents died being restrained now I I talk about seven policemen jumping on me and giving me what's called an emergency tranquilization I'll talk about that in my book how I survive that I don't know because countless people have died like that black people being restrained by police the amount of Crim the criminalization of that the criminalization particularly black people in that period of illness of psychosis is look at the people in America you people shot because they're acting strange they're in they're in a moment of medical crisis but they happen to be naked running down the street screaming
you will get shot people don't understand it people have been arrested people have been one guy knew he was having one guy I met knew he was having a breakdown I went to the hospital they refused to treat him went to another hospital they refused to treat him started banging on the door they called the police he got arrested he got into he got sent to prison and he was only in prison that he got treated so this whole book is has really opened up the whole how particularly people of color are criminalized at a moment of crisis by being arrested and then being treated like for me it was only when I showed the book to my consultant she said do you realize you were given three times the legal doses of tranquilizers and I said why is that she said well it was it's and then I again once the book got out I had somebody contact me saying this is standard practice because most people are afraid of big black men so most times a large black man is sectioned you will get knocked the [ __ ] out for no medical reason other than we're scared of this big guy let's just up the dose here and that's all it was so it just all this stuff was coming out all these stuff was coming at me and I couldn't really process it and I remember going into my therapist and just flying my eyes out because it's too much it's too much I can't cope with it and funnily enough my medical records that I find in the documentary I hadn't opened those notes for two years since I got them since filming it but before I wrote the book and I knew where they were they were in my flat in Vancouver and exactly where they were and once I decided to write the book I remember flying back to shoots the next season of Supergirl and we flew into quarantine because it was a couple years ago so you had 14 days on your own and the first thing I did walk in the flat got my medical records out and I read them cover to cover
and that was really tough because you're reading your Disturbed self everything that I'd said done was was recorded so I'm reading all the stuff I did and flashes of moments that I thought [ __ ] that's where that memory comes from second Pace in the middle of the office and just the most weird stuff that I did and said is it scary to know that it's you're capable of going getting to that place yes no and and you know again I think of myself thinking about the acting side of it you know I've always had this ability to not method but I really throw myself into a character and I love that and I think maybe there's part of me that having pushed myself having let myself go not many people go there I literally went crazy crossed the line into unacceptable Behavior where your behavior is deemed we have to take you away unsafe for yourself and for others sectioned I've crossed that line so for me now I think in acting anything up to that line is fair game it's a fair game and I love it and I that's why I would more will push push myself and I look for characters who are like that because who do push uh that's what I don't know that's what makes acting so so great for me and so exciting because I can behave like something somebody else but even reading about even reading about psychosis is someone that's never been through it it makes me realize that it's completely possible for me to find myself in that situation absolutely anybody and that and that's what because you know when I grow up with mental health I thought something happened to other people and then you and then you get a flavor of it right yourself and you go [ __ ] we can all we all have uh mental health and and reading the stories of psychosis and how a very normal young man can quite quickly apparently quickly very quickly yeah but I mean you from what you've described it's a series of events over
time but apparently very quickly fall into that situation in some respects makes me realize that you know we are very highly strong individually I'm in the brain yeah you know how incredible that is an incredible muscle an incredible one so there's thousands of of of uh firing Electro at five thousands every day just going off in our brains some of the misfire and you some of them very quickly can lead to you taking your own life and you know I know how having you know having been there I said I was I'm just lucky that I think my doctor said it that he said you know we're lucky David is uh calm essentially a clown because my psychosis played out in all sorts of silly ways but that I did everything that voice told me to do that night had that voice of told me to jump off Thames Bridge I would have done it I would have done it so I've met people who the voice told them to throw themselves in front of as that young girl in the documentaries throw yourself in front of the next white van and she did and he hit her you know it is it is a very powerful thing and it can happen to anybody where did you find yourself today so you're three or three or four years on now from that documentary coming out and you've been on that Journey as you describe it of rebuilding the house and yeah I think you know it's taken me this long to I think I've come through I think I was really in pain I didn't realize at the time but I think I was really specific when the documentary went out I was very very vulnerable and it really was painful I and I it was uncomfortable and I used I get what I would get very emotional I'd be in Tesco's and somebody had come up to me as I bought my sausages to say
I saw your documentary and I would just go they'd go I'd go why being reminded of it was they would make me cry because they'd tell me about their uncle and they'd start going I don't know it's something about the helplessness of seeing a loved one acting very out of character and some of them don't recover because you don't understand it so I I used to find it very emotional and I think I've moved through that period of vulnerability into a period of healing and I think I'm in that healing period now I said to you if you just if we'd have done this doc this podcast last year I don't think I'd have got through it like this it would have and every now and again I find a rising emotional level as I'm talking about it now because I know it sounds very weird yeah I feel like everyone must be sitting there thinking God he's nuts so you know but I sort of dealt with that was there ever any regrets about doing that documentary yes really yes which all disappeared the morning after I it went out the the regrets were all the night before after all the regrets were and then maybe afterwards there was like maybe I've said too much you know maybe people don't now see because since then I've done a lot more a lot more documentaries and um more documentaries than I have dramas and I've been back in England now for a year and in America I was playing leading characters three-dimensional authoritative characters and I haven't had a single offer of anything like that since coming back and that's been really worrying I suddenly thought thing well maybe I would say too much or maybe I'm not you know you know I thought maybe I may be across the line but I don't care anymore and I've sort of sort of gone well I'm embracing who I am now okay sorry you you've since you came back from America yeah you haven't had
enough uh to play leading characters not one and do you have a suspicion that that's to do with I I worried that that's what I'm saying you say you know you you talk about do I think there was a fear of that I don't think that's the case yeah but it's just but but again those are insecutors and fears and maybe I've said too much maybe people feel now or you don't want One reviewer said oh David all we see him now is in documentaries I said but the only reason you see me in that is because I'm not going to play some [ __ ] role hmm I want complexity I want a challenge so when I'm finding that in the world of documentaries and I really enjoy doing that this has never been done before ever keeping a diary has fundamentally changed my life it's the single thing that has advanced my personal development more than anything else that I've done I always say there's no personal development without self-awareness you can read as many books as you like but if you can't read yourself you'll never learn a thing this is the world's first Diary that listens to you understands you and then provides you with tailored support from the world's leading experts in health Finance work and relationships so that you can overcome the things that are limiting you in order to reach your Highest Potential a limited number of these Diaries are going to go on sale in November and the waiting list is open now so go to thediary.com and add your name if you want to come on this journey with me your career as an actor um and now as an entrepreneur and many other things in a director unbelievably um successful unbelievably successful um against many many odds why you yeah you have the talent you're a Class Clown you said that you know back in the school days and all these things you're a funny guy but that's not enough I know lots of funny people they're not actors I don't think that's for me to say no but this is this is why it's such a tough question because I actually think only you would read you know people might have told you along the years but I really think that when you look at
your peers that's one way I've tried to figure myself out is what makes me different from these other my peers in my industry and I go oh ah that's the thing I'm particularly good at that bit there that's interesting though because you know and again maybe I'm over sharing but you know my therapist we talk you know sometimes you know when I first started to ask him about this not living up to this ideal blackness he said well part of the reason why you have been so successful is because you are this you can go it can be over here you can be over there you're formless and then I love that Bruce Lee will say it's not be like water you pull water into cup it's a cup you pour water into a bottle it's a bottle you pull water into a teacup it's a teacup I haven't tried to be one thing and I think some actors come out think I'm going to be like this and I'm going to be like that and I haven't I changed my voice because I didn't want to play brummies All My Life so I learned the RP I can do if I wanted to do Street I can do Street well which is always used to pissed me up when I was young because people got always a bit too rather it's a Carrick I play characters but because you're I don't know maybe black actors don't play characters they just play black people play characters and I think that that USP that I've had that I like playing characters has enabled me to change and it's also what's constrained me because as I said to you when I came out of drama school you would you weren't an actor you were a black actor these days you're allowed to be an actor John boyega is an actor Daniel kaluya is an actor he's not a black actor when I came out I was a black actor and I found it so constricting I'm more than this I can play anything and that's maybe you know that's what I think is my of my generation that's probably one of the things that I
perhaps gave me my unique USP it's funny the things that often give us our USPS are also entirely linked to the things that give us our difficulties and our struggles and it seems to be the case in what you've said it's funny because what I heard from all of that is that your versity your versatility as an actor came from the versatility that you you've had to demonstrate in your real life as well 100 and I think that my experience particularly getting out you know getting out of a mental institution acting my way out of my institution uh it's all been good training and I think you know my Crossing that line has given me that USB that kid that came out of radar if you could have a chat with him if he was sat here you could just say a couple of sentences to him the sentence is I would 100 tell him and I tell this to all young actors two young people be prepared for the tough times people think it's going to be life is going to be roses and people think it's going to be easy and yeah things are great now but be prepared for when things get a bit Rocky because they will get Rocky tough time you know yourself in business it's not all about winning sometimes you learn your best lessons in failures so I would would just and again we'll talk about this with my therapist that I didn't take care of my younger self I did I didn't take care of him so now I try and take care of my younger self and I always try and tell people look after yourself really look after yourself because what does that mean to you look after yourself uh control what I can control and don't if I don't get a job I don't get a job I can't there's nothing I can do about that I can control how I feel about it and just think it wasn't for me and right now as I said to you there's thousands of things that are
going my way and thousands of calls again acting maybe not but that's okay it'll come around maybe it'll come around I can't control that I can control what I can control so I've just got to keep myself sharp look after myself don't allow I could easily allow myself to get down now because I've not been working but I'm I'm busier than I've ever been outside of that creating this company looking to recreate other work doing documentaries meeting people it's it's a very exciting time for me and I wouldn't have had this time had I been starring in some show so there's benefits to having time on your hands when you said that about controlling what you can control it made me realize that this word popped into my head I almost imagined myself stood at a Crossroads and one path was like control what I can control and that says left acceptance and on the other hand the right turning is the resentment that you said your father had which is that slowly slowly slow Insidious build up of like resentment towards the world it's a choice it can't go that way and I'm determined not to go that way is keep it open Keep attracting Good Vibes and at the moment that's where it's leading and it's very it's a very exciting time I've only been back a year as well so who knows what's going to happen we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the previous guest asks a question for the next guest before I ask you the question I actually was really intrigued because I know you've just you've started a production company what was the thinking behind that and how's that going it's a new challenge it's very exciting and uh you know I think over the last couple of years I've seen how some people I've been involved in projects and I don't I haven't exactly been run very well and I think well I I you know I've now got the experience to know I can do that job I I know I'm bringing my A-game but it's the people above me aren't bringing their a game
it's gonna make it tough so I'd like to bring Excellence to everything that I do that's what I think I do is I bring Excellence to everything I do so I want to put some Excellence out there and what do you want to make what kind of things documentaries dramas give myself some good roles um why not you know but ask questions of of the audience work in a different way create work that isn't being written yet why wait for somebody else to write it create it yourself yeah I'm 27 years old you look about 35. thank you and you say to yourself well why isn't that role come along yet create it yourself and that's one thing the younger generation are doing brilliantly starting their production companies you know valuing themselves and I think that's um something I really want to do but myself at the top be the boss man like you it comes with its costs but that's a conversation for another time um the question that was left for you what is a personal Legacy you want to leave for yourself slash children foreign I would say crack open the universe you know inspire those around me an inspirational figure in in what you do be an example in what you do and let me I'll give you an example of that but I've just been casting this film and as a director and um two leading roles two black two two black people all these young black kids came in the door young black actors and the first thing they said oh my God man I used to watch you when I was at school thank you so much for I had no I'm like I was feeling I'd probably be feeling really depressed that morning but even without me knowing just being there just by doing what I did I inspired that kid to think about even becoming an actor just even think about it
so I would say to you know that inspire people by your action crack up in the universe because we're still living in an age where we're the first I was the first black actor my fellow this was the first black person that was still living in that age so I think there's a whole Legacy to leave a whole Legacy to open up be an example not just your generation but to Future Generations well David I have to say you're certainly that you're certainly an example you're certainly that inspiration and that role models to so many people so if that is your objective then I think you've already achieved it in a tremendous way um no doubt you've got so much more to do and I have a sneaking suspicion based on your tenacity and your um which has been present since you were a very young man that you'll find a way to to crack open the universe in any way that you desire I have absolutely no doubt about that in fact thank you I hope to do that that's my plan thank you for inspiring me as well and I don't act but watching um a black man rise so high and Achieve so much is is incredibly inspiring for me and my role models um are varied across Industries and you're certainly one of them so but you know what I I'm right back at you because you inspired you likewise in yourself inspire people and you know I was listening to say listen to your Chris Camara piece which was beautiful by the way no thank you and and and hearing how he's inspired people in a lot of the people who go through that if they don't think it they can't even imagine the world but you even just by being yourself you inspire people so let's right back at you well thank you there it means it means a ton coming from you and I'm sure this conversation we're going to continue off there in various forms so thank you thank you huge inspiration foreign [Music] [Music]