Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6d9PJLAQmE
what I would love to do is call someone to my office on Friday I love firing people on Friday now my next guest is one of the biggest names in real estate a successful entrepreneur and star of a hit TV show now the female Titan is getting some heat the minute or woman cries you're giving away your power Harvard is definitely Over the Top If I wasn't dyslexic and I didn't have a hard time in school I don't think I would have been successful I think I had 22 jobs before I started my own business every person I meet is in real estate in New York so how did you become the best I was competing with the old boys network and they were asleep at the wheel nobody was thinking of new ideas in real estate I would think of the greatest [ __ ] to create publicity did I manipulate them I played my cards everything I've done in my life has been one long attempt to show the world that I'm not stupid Ramon Simone he was my boyfriend at the time and he offered to loan me a thousand dollars to start a business with him he was my 51 business partner she ran off with my secretary the seventh year we were in business yeah he said you'll never succeed without me you know insults can really be a wonderful motivator I knew I was going to succeed I had to just because I had to show him that he was wrong if you're driven by these unhealthy insecurities you need to go and see a shrink I'm afraid to see a shrink why why well you'd ask good questions damn you I had an issue I felt before this episode starts I have a small favor to ask from you two months ago 74 of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guests get thank you and enjoy this episode foreign [Music] we always start this conversation in the same place on this podcast because it's it seems to be inescapable that the earliest context of Our Lives seems to shape us in a way that then changes the trajectory of who we are but also molds
our character and really like hones our motivation so my question for you to start is what is that context from your earliest years that I need to understand to understand you first off I'd say competition I I was one of 10 children we of course only had two parents to share uh we're in very tight quarters of two bedroom and just to get the attention of a parent was very hard to do so I think everyone in my family certainly myself grew up very competitive competitive for attention uh competitive to do something better than the next kid and what also came with it we grew up in a team so we never knew what it was like to be alone my idea of doing anything is who's with me who's with me and I think we all I shouldn't speak to everyone in my family but I'll speak just for myself now I think I'm phenomenal at building a team but it's second nature to me it was so easy for me to think of who would go with who who wouldn't go with who who would get along who had the right task I could just size somebody up really fast and make a great tight team and I don't think that would have happened if I didn't grow up in a very crowded household looking for more attention and competing the ability to suss people out and understand them you're saying that came from having nine siblings I certainly think it did yeah because some you see all kinds of Dynamics when you have a crowded household so you know who the leaders are on what category you know who's going to squeal to the parents you know who's going to shut up you know who can do your work for you when you don't want to do it yourself you know who you know who you could know you get you develop all the talents to get life in a form that you want it in and you come out of the household at 18 years old with a lot of skills that other kids really haven't had the opportunity to do what about the role of your also the influence of your mother and father oh and I was thank God I had a mother and father who loved us um I think that's the most important gift in life it makes you somewhere deep inside secure if you feel loved and I had two parents who loved me you know and
um my mother was a phenomenal role model I never saw her sleep she worked 24 7. she just never sat down I don't know even when she slept I've never seen her go to bed ever in my life and my father worked two jobs his whole life to support us so we were very much influenced by each parent as needing to work hard I mean we were all having jobs when we were 11 years old I think I had 22 jobs before I started my own business because we were out working to contribute to the family and think about the life skills you get outside a household when you're working young I don't think anybody ever has any job where they didn't learn something about themselves so even though when I went out into the workforce when I started my business at 23 I may have looked 23 but inside I felt like I was 53 based on experience and so there was nothing naive about me at that point I had had already an awful lot of experience when I was reading through your story I I read that your father struggled with work and struggled with I think having a boss he certainly did and he set up the pattern that we all shared in my family nine out of the ten kids have their own business my father was a printing press foreman and a very good worker but he didn't like someone telling him what to do so he would regularly come home sit at the dinner table and tell us he was fired from his job it was a regular event we all asked her and tell us a story and it was the same story he would basically he said I I told Mrs Stein where to shove the job where the sun don't shine that was my and we'd all clap for him and say Dad our hero and my mother of course would not even know how we were going to be fit until he found a new job but he was a hero and so when we grew up even though he never worked for himself the fact of the matter is is we knew we wanted to work for ourselves we didn't want to work for a boss and honestly I never had a boss I liked even though I had so many and I'm sure they're perfectly fine people but I didn't like the fact that I wasn't the boss it was clear to me he um your father drunk drank sometimes yes he did drink sometimes and uh I'll tell you how that played a role in our family he was a social drinker so he was probably the best father in the
world played with us was our Playmate our we adored him everything he did but then when we went out to a party which wasn't that often a family party he would drink too much and he would come back and he was a different person he was a gorilla and we all feared him what that does uh is it makes you very fond of control when you with a parent who drinks I think as a child you never really feel like you're in control of things because you don't know when the lion might come out and so it made us insecure and very fond of control and I'm a control freak I like to control everything I do and I credit my dad with that I don't want any curveballs or surprises the way that he spoke to a mother sometimes it seems from Reading throughout your story and the person you went on to be seemed to be pretty consequential to how you did respond to men who would talk down to you in your career God you do your research good for you really that's a Nuance but um I'm not my best if a man talks down to me I'll credit my father with that because I adored my mother so much there was nothing to talk down to my mother about but when he was drinking he would talk down to my mother and I hated him for it and it scars you so deeply that I'll never get rid of that so if a man actually dismisses me or talks down for me particularly in business I'm at my best it's like Oh no you're not going there I get like this iron Rod through my soul showing someone uh that they're wrong is probably not the best motivation I gotta believe probably not a healthy way to be and you probably need a shrink on that one but it certainly works well in business I think it pushes you it makes sure that you make sure that things work out I really resonate with that because as I've talked about probably too much on this podcast my my mother and father had a very um loud way to communicate to say the least what a lovely way of putting it I've become more and more like diplomatic with Harry frame that but yeah a loud way of communicating and I I learned
that as I stood there as a little kid and watched my mother shouting at my dad when I got older my response to being shouted at was the response I always wish I'd seen in my dad oh which was like run and don't take it ah so when you were saying that I was wondering if you could relate in the sense of when a man puts you down because you saw your mother be put down in such a way your response is to yeah every time brace up yeah and most importantly uh prove his assessment of me wrong did your mother how did she respond uh I have to actually think I think my mother was so busy making sure my father was safe to his children that I think she was just making sure we were safe all the time in those instances you know and it's kind of crazy you know you figure it out I mean the next morning my dad would wake up and he was the most popular guy in the neighborhood taking every kid in the neighborhood out Baseball playing teaching them how to play tennis he did he was everybody's favorite father and only the night before my mother was hiding us you know so it was kind of a odd Dynamic she was hiding you well hiding us because she didn't want my father to have his Wrath on any of his children you know so she was protecting us so kind of separating us out yeah wrath it's a strong word wrath is a strong word uh I mean wrath is it could be you know just angry words can be so damaging uh you know nah whatever it's weird you're making me feel sad I guess you're supposed to right but it's so sad you know it's so sad uh addiction because it brings out the very worst in an individual and the traits my dad had a wonderful father growing up just wonderful we couldn't hope for a better father um that he was so good that he forgave him for the bad you really did as a kid because it's oh good dad's back oh good dad's back but again I said too early I think it leaves the scars of insecurity with children because you don't know if you get the lady of the lion when the
door when the door opens like who are we going to get now you know so it keeps you on edge when we think about addiction we we see it as like a manifestation of pain yes or like it is of sorts was that is that relevant to what you observed in your father no I think with my father it was honestly uh entirely due uh to too much pressure on one man think about it he worked two jobs he washed trucks every night through the night because he could wash them fast and sleep a little then he'd go to his day job at the morning he had three children by the time he was 23 he had seven children by the time he was 30. and he was a Workman and he was supporting us uh trying to make us happy trying to share his time with us as best he could which he really did a great job on um I think it was just too much pressure for a young man uh of what he signed up for I think it was hard I mean it wasn't ever assured with us as children that we would necessarily get groceries you know so and he felt ashamed of that like he should be the provider but it didn't stop him from quitting the job the next week when the boss told him what to do so it's really a shame my dad didn't have his own business I think he would have been phenomenal in his own business all of his kids did except for one and they're all hugely successful so I feel like he just didn't have the affordability of starting his own business you know what role did the lack of money in your household have on shaping your view on money interesting enough very little really what was great about my mother is she never worried about money now here's a woman who should have worried about money and my dad should have worried about money but I remember when I had many junctures along the way where I thought I'd be going out of business at the 11th hour I tried everything didn't think I'd ever anymore angles to work where I could stay in business another month and I remember in one of those dark times my mother called him she said you sound distracted I said well honestly mom I think I'm going out of business and on Monday sales meeting I'm actually writing a speech to say goodbye and how thankful I am and she said don't
worry about money it's an awful waste of time and you know I stopped worrying about money when she said it I thought of a new idea and it kept us in business another two months my mother's attitude toward money was it was meant to be spent uh you know as a kid I guess I would have liked to have a new coat versus get my hand-me-downs you know that's always better for a girl to feel like she looks pretty okay uh but you know we were we were pretty much a happy bunch and so money didn't weigh in so far as you're happy and also my parents never measured anyone by money they never had a comment about who's rich who's not rich who has what it was just not even on their radar so it was really about my mother's Mantra supported by my father when he was fine was kindness how kind can you be to the neighbor what could you do for the lady down the street and we all were raised on that and as a result of it we felt the satisfaction from helping out even though we didn't have more money to help out just doing nice things for people and so money was not really on the radar honest to God yeah what about school how is oh School sucked school is tough on kids that can't learn I was one of those kids you know myself and my two brothers the other kids were eight students but we just couldn't read we couldn't write we couldn't learn and what happens to a kid when you're in a in a school situation is you judge yourself based on school grades what else do you have you someone could say she's such a nice girl well that might sound good but if you're getting all F's you feel terrible you just feel terrible and so um your sense of self I think is formed very much by how good a student you are in all school systems and it shouldn't be because it's just one kind of intelligence of course but it is that way when you're a student you sum yourself up based on whether you could get good grades or not that's as simple as that were you bullied in school no not at all I was too quiet to be bullied you know I was quiet and lovely and that's what the Sisters of Charity always told my parents she's not very smart but she's quiet and she's lovely quiet and lovely I heard her my whole life and I was I never said a word because I didn't have
the confidence to say a word I wasn't going to speak up and be found out and uh those aren't the kids that were bullied the reason I asked about the the question about being bullied is because I I know that you're dyslexic and often especially in in that day and age we didn't understand dyslexia so we just thought those kids were yeah did you ever feel that kind of criticism from your peers or your teachers from the teachers yes I had one teacher in third grade that really gave me a label that stuck with me till I got out of high school she said to me if you don't learn to read you'll always be stupid and she said the word stupid with such disdain that was the first time I really heard that word before that no one told me I was stupid it's wrong with me I'm stupid and that's when I got quiet that's when I just shut up and never talked again in school because I didn't want to be called on to read out loud I mean for me my idea of Hell on Earth was being told to read out loud which was typically how you learn to read those days you go up and down the aisles your turn to read I mean nothing was worse than me going the the the the them and all the kids laughing and snickering uh so I wouldn't call that bully I mean they I was a show I was a show so I guess I would have laughed if I was them too but it's so painful when that happens because it takes your confidence and demolishes it but thank God thank God we all worked thank God I work by 11. because every job I had I did a great job I used my mouth I didn't have to write I didn't have to read I could do any job and people always tell my mother what a great worker I was so I was proud so uh you know what I think in hindsight if I wasn't dyslexic and I didn't have a hard time in school I don't think I would have been successful believe it or not because I think everything I've done in my life has been one long attempt to show the world that I'm not stupid so I'm driven because I'm always there's a piece of me that always thinks I might not be smart I mean I know it's bizarre because I'm smart but in an insecure situation I doubt myself sometimes but
I've learned to replace the tape I don't have sister Stella Maria in my head anymore telling me I'm stupid I have a tape of my own telling me I'm incredible I'm beautiful boy you could do this this is nothing you know I've got that tape that I had to replace over the years but let me tell you it took me a lot of years a lot of years to now I can't say I totally replace it but mostly put a nail through its head but it takes a lot to get over the Damage Done if your self-perception is a negative worn from the get-go because we all don't leave our childhoods behind so readily they stay with us I think and you you credit it there for your drive absolutely but also you said earlier if you're driven by these kind of unhealthy insecurities you need to at some point go and see a shrink I'm afraid to see issuing why I'm afraid they'll straighten me out and would I be successful then I stay a mile away I know it's crazy I've read a few books and self-analyze but no no no first of all they're very expensive in New York and then that way I'm too cheap to pay my shrink is working out if I work out or if I weed my garden I'm straightened out for the moment okay but that's the way it is I ask for selfish reasons I found myself at one point for the same sort of insecurities and feeling like I wasn't enough being very driven to like prove the world that I was and at some point that comes at the cost of like this other set of things which are important for happiness relationships and balance and whatever else so when you said about someone you need to go see a shrink I get it because at some point you can be a bit too dragged by your pursuit to prove the world that you are enough that you of course it's too much compromise a bunch of other things of course you do I mean if you're strong one Arena something's got to give what had to give for you relaxing I don't think I've ever relaxed in my life uh but honestly when I'm relaxed uh reading a book it's fine for a half hour and then I gotta get up and accomplish something I'm very driven to accomplish to see the difference I've made in the world to an individual I just spoke to
to a business I've been involved in uh to a neighbor I've befriended I've got a I've got us why because I want to know for sure without a doubt that I haven't wasted a minute and that my existence makes a difference why because I I think it's important why well you ask good questions damn you why uh why is that because I don't want it to be a wasted life you know I'm just one of those that you one shot at it and I want to see how much of an influence and how much of a difference I can make I really do I mean so I guess relaxing feels like wasting time it doesn't mean that I can't have fun with friends I have the most a great circle of close friends that I have so much fun with that's a priority in my life and it was a priority in my business fun it's number one in in developing teams I believe but um in addition to that I just uh I just have to be productive I do need a shrink don't I do you have one in the house they give me a courtesy hour okay I'm trying to get a discount um off you went into the world of work as you said you had some by the way you would make a good shrink can we just switch gears you don't realize what's happening here I'm actually using you as my shrink that's really I don't think so now I ask questions that I genuinely care about so and typically that means because I'm struggling with something so so that's why I was pursuing that Avenue so diligently um you had some 22 or 23 jobs before you started your own business yes I did jobs from everything from being a receptionist to a waitress to everything in between we often look back at those jobs that didn't pay us a lot and that the world doesn't hold in high regard as some people might think that they are a waste of time or they were like necessary what's your view on the when you're a receptionist and a waitress how what role did that play in your overall success I think whether you have a menial job or an important job it's what you're learning I mean there wasn't a job where I didn't learn a lot for me I would take any job not based on pay but gee what could I learn what could I learn because that made you more valuable I never really thought it made
you more valuable to be paid more but hey I haven't done this before let's see what this is about and you learn skills I think I learned more through my waitressing jobs I always had a few at once you know you could always get a waitress job behind a counter I think I learned more about people waitressing than building my business honest God you have to size someone up your territory is your counter you have to make them happy you want to upsell them a little bit maybe you say you know you give the second cup of coffee for free but how about A Slice of Cheesecake is really good today you've learned how to hustle you learn how to be organized how to get the containers in order how to make sure they're filled when the customer steps out how to get that person something to drink while you're working on this person I mean I learned so much in every one of those jobs and you know what's great about having a lot of jobs you start to get a profile of what you're good at and what you're not and I in short order after maybe seven or eight jobs not that I knew what I was going to do for a living but I knew what I was good at I knew I was good at getting along with people and making them smile I could talk to somebody and make them happy absolutely and I also knew that I was efficient I could create a system in anything I would see at the diner counter all wrong not running right I would talk to the boss say you know if you did this with the maple syrup and changed sugar and I could like an executive I could rearrange the whole counters you know in an efficient manner and I started learning that those were my two gifts people and efficiency and if you think about any business those are really big ticket items if you could choose people motivate people get along with people make them get along with each other plus create systems to grow a big business I mean the minute you have more than a half dozen people you need systems and my companies are always so well organized that it they ran like they just ran like a Swiss clock is that a good analogy everything was in its place nothing had to be duplicated it was fast forward and so I was able to build very quickly which I had to do because we had big people in my market and if I had built and replicated systems at a normal Pace I would never
catch up to them so I had to do double triple time and what's your answer on that one systems systems get you moving forward get you get get a business like a machine you know and that was a gift I got from my menial jobs thank God I worked imagine if I hadn't worked and went out into the real world thinking I was dumb that I couldn't do anything just because I couldn't read or write thank God I learned could be a lifeguard I learned I could be a tent salesman I could be Barbara buttons calling for solicitations eight hours a day I could be all those menial jobs hot dog salesman sell more hot dogs in the next guy I mean I had Confidence from every one of those jobs like look how cool I am maybe I wouldn't win Respect by everybody well who cares about the hot dogs but in my book I knew I sold more hot dogs than he sold on his you know so so no thank God for the jobs you learned so much by trying different jobs on you know it's so important at that age if I'd asked you what you wanted what your dream was what would you have answered I wouldn't have answered the question I wouldn't have answered the question I had no idea I would say I just want to work I just want to quote work it didn't make a difference what I was working at I just knew that when I was working I felt capable that's all and conversely then what are you bad at I think as you've said it's very important to know strengths but also weaknesses you know what I'm bad at a bad at math numbers terrible just terrible really I don't even understand I took algebra four times four times two years in summer school never passed it they finally just gave me the grade to go through um I'm very bad at math I'm bad at legal I'm bad at committee meetings I'm bad at listening to a blow heart who just goes on and on doesn't cut to the chase I'm very bad at impatience I want to know what you want from me and then you tell me how you got there I don't want to hear how you got there and then what do you want I always want to cut to the chase so I'm impatient I've learned to hide it because you can't be so visibly impatient with people but as long as they tell me what they want on the front end I could hang in there for the long explanation after because I've already concluded what I'm going to do
you know yeah so that's what I'm bad at but lucky for me I've always surrounded myself with people who are opposite to me you know and by the way I shouldn't really say I'm bad at numbers because I had a business partner in my 10 business partner Esther my whole life I made her my partner she was great at legal and finance and she has to spent hours when we wanted to open one or two new offices doing the numbers to see if we could afford it and I used to come into our office and say what do you think she says I don't think we should really do it I said well let me tell you why we're going to do it because you really need to beat the next guy and let me tell you if we have eighty thousand dollars and the desk produces only 40 42 it's going to take us about nine months to actually meet our overhead and we'll have to cut back on the advertising we'll have the managers work for free and she'd say what and it worked every time so I must have had a taste for numbers in that kind of a way I could always see the picture on numbers and I'd be right it was bugged the crap out of her because she had all the numbers you know but um yeah but I'm not good at adding up the numbers at all a lot of people think I think it's really liberating to hear that they probably exclude themselves mentally of being a business person because they are bad at numbers oh gosh I think numbers are the least important thing in business by far I look at all the entrepreneurs I've invested in Shark Tank I am telling you the most successful I hope I'm not giving anybody the short haul here but the most successful are not good at numbers they're exceptional at people I think if you're great at people and you have ambition you have the two magic cards To Succeed in Business you do that's what it's about people and ambition the drive to get to the Finish Line yeah then you find a way you hire the people you need you borrow the people you need you exchange your gift for their gift part-time if you have to get what you need but you always get what you need if you know what you need talking about boring you borrowed a thousand dollars off Ray yeah Ramon Simone yep Ramon Simone nice name huh Ramon Simone wow okay and he was your
boyfriend at the time he was my boyfriend I met him at the diner that was my last Diner job and he offered to loan me a thousand dollars to start a business within three months did you ask him for the money no he said you've got a great personality you'd be great in real estate sales why don't you start a business and that's how it happened really yeah so he had a gift for seeing Talent obviously you know and then off you go 24 years old you started you're right 23 but 23. let me tell you something thank God at 23 you don't know what to be afraid of you don't know what falling off a Cliff's about and at 23 and poor you have nothing to lose there was no risk involved I could always get my Diner job back or any waitress job or a pool hander I had millions of jobs I could get I wasn't afraid of being unemployed so I figured what the heck I'll try it let's see where it goes however what I didn't know and when the light went on in my head was I didn't know how much I would like being a boss first day I'm like I love this did I like real estate I didn't really care about real estate did I like the people I was meeting they're all nice but I had been meeting nice people my whole life but I love the fact that I was in charge and so I loved real estate I love the people I love the paint on the wall I loved everything because I was a boss I was bent meant for being a boss I felt so freed so free to dream and do whatever I wanted and nobody could tell me what to do it was just it was the greatest gift of all freedom freedom I'm getting juicy just talking about it [Laughter] that real estate company became very big am I right in thinking it became the biggest um residential firm in New York yes before I sold it we were number one the biggest residential real estate firm in New York why because there's so many residential firms in New York there's so many like real estate people they're everywhere I mean every person I meet is in real estate in New York so how do you become the best
honestly I think uh there's a lot of reasons how you succeed right but I think the major cards were I was competing with the old boys network and they were asleep at the wheel it's not that they didn't do good work but you have to realize real estate Brokerage in New York when I was started and I guess it's somewhat the same was controlled by Rich guys who inherited the business from their father or their grandfather before them so they were very important very self-important very well educated very good at what they did but they did the same old thing they did it the same old way and they also hired people like themselves they were white privileged and they hired white privileged women to work for them that was a whole cast of characters when I came in I couldn't get those white privileged women to work for me because I was a kid I didn't know anything and it was it would no status associated with it we were a new kid in town we had three people who was going to work for me I had a big barn steel to get anybody to work for me and so they were cocky and the minute I smelled that they were cocky which happened to me about the third year in business when I went to a large real estate Board of New York meaning I I was I remember I went home and I said I'm going to beat these guys and I knew it because they were very cocky that they were in charge and what weakness did that create a tremendous weakness they're blind it's like competing with blind people they were also Rich enough not to want to lose money when the market went South which happens again and again in real estate it's up down Market they would not spend money they would hold their money in and protect it they would not take a chance because of the reputation they would check check what they were going to do against the committee I didn't have committees they would check what they were going to do against their attorneys they had attorneys they were all stop signs I would think of an idea on a Tuesday and have it in the street by Wednesday they would think of an idea on Tuesday if they even thought of it or if they listened to a good employee who had a good idea which tended not to do it was always their ideas but if they list listen to that employee they'd have to
check it with the committee work it up the line talk to their dad talk to the attorneys I'm like thank God they're in quicksand so I think a big reason why I was able to succeed is because I competed against the norm of an old boy network if I had to compete with other people like me wanting to prove something desperate to make a a go of it I would have had that hunger to compete with these guys weren't Hungary they were well-fed and well vacationed and they liked it that way one of the things I took from that is um whenever you're competing against like a big complacent slow incumbent being the opposite of the incumbent is the winning strategy you were quick because you didn't have that bureaucracy old sign off for lawyers you were like high risk you are agile and you were naive you know what else I had which isn't to be underestimating I had a wonderful imagination I would think of the greatest [ __ ] to create publicity every day of the week I just would dream up some stupid stuff and give it to the papers or the or the TV stations I would churn out reports that I had no business turning out but I could think of an idea a minute and I would just throw it out there and see what happened uh nobody was thinking of new ideas in real estate it was about controlling the listing market and controlling the number of bodies working for you that was the only game in town not how you did it or what differently you could do nobody even really was concerned about the customer or the sellers they just want to know if they had a contact with them because it was a contact game but I came into a different generation where contacts meant Less in New York as the Waters of New York changed and everybody started coming to New York at different nationalities and different colored colors of people everything was changing and these guys really thought it was not changed you know so it was such an advantage to have a lot of ideas and to have to have tattered soldiers anybody to get your hands on and to make them believe they were as good as the fancy people and my people believe they were as good and you know what they were as good and they were better in the end because they all hustled and they all had something to
prove you know we were all the poor kids trying to make it make it in New York you know so we were all driven you know we're soulmates in a way fat company culture and that like philosophy you're citing that as being really pivotal to to why you were successful what what does that mean like culture and how do you go about creating that culture yeah the main the main character is having fun with your people all right I put fun before anything I mean I certainly wanted to drive sales hard open new offices hire new people nurture great management system all the things that go into any business but more than that I wanted to make sure everybody loved each other and the way you get to break down barriers between people who all compete with each other remember in sales you like who you're working with but you don't really totally like them because they're after your market so you have friend enemies really in a way and so I believe that you uh if you had enough fun with your people it was a great equalizer when people laugh together they come up with new ideas when people laugh together they loosen up I used to have people uh dressed for my party so they couldn't come in I would have them addressed 1940s 1950s I had them cross-dress oh what a rebellion at the Kingdom the straight guys I'm not cross-dressing for her of course they cross-dressed for me I had a party where everybody dressed as a nun I'm not going as enough of course they came as do you know how exciting it is to be in the Waldorf Astoria ballroom and see a thousand nuns at a party it's a blast and so much fun so we would have picnics parties I would take the women spontaneously hey come with me we're going downstairs to Barney and buying a new underwear why because it's so bizarre and they all go down and pick out the most expensive underwear they could find I mean this bizarre stuff made them tell everybody who wasn't in the coming oh God guess what we did it was an adventure and sooner or later what happened after about I guess maybe 10 12 years I didn't have to recruit anymore our reputation as being the best place to work started recruiting for us my sales people recruited for us just by repeating stories that happened every day and so I do believe you create a great imaginative culture if you could
insist on giving as much attention to planning good fun I don't mean boring Christmas party we drink nothing like that some bizarre means of having fun everybody he doesn't have enough fun and they want to stay with you I had no turnover in my company none in a business that's loaded with turnover of course I fired a third of my staff every year because they couldn't sell but other than the ones I couldn't sell no one ever left for another firm they had too much fun at us why would they leave for the same commission spread I don't think so five years in to that business to that Venture Ramon Simone runs off with your PA yes she's much prettier than I 10 years younger I don't blame him in hindsight I don't blame him at the time I didn't like it he was your boyfriend at the time he was my boyfriend at the time he was my 51 business partner because he took 51 he said because he was financing The Firm which was fair I was a managing partner I like the way that sounded uh yes but uh he ran off with my business with my secretary uh the seventh year we were in business yeah that was shocking I didn't expect that but you know those blows that happened to you egos seem the worst at the time but it doesn't take you long to realize what why they happen and why they're the best things I mean if he didn't run off with her I would have never started the Corker group I would still be Corcoran someone working with him I mean that got me off my butt to start my own company without his help right away because I was a scorned woman and I couldn't stand seeing them throw kisses at each other during the work day it drove me crazy and so I left I just left we cut the company in half at the time we only had 14 people he took seven I took seven and off I went thank God that happened and then he gave me those wonderful parting words he'll never succeed without me thank you Ray did that drive you those words for I was the physicist when he said that I was like vicious I hated him for it but I walked out the door hating him for it I hated him for it the next month the year after that and then Europe did that and then I started thinking a word really yeah I realized it was a gift you know insult
uh can really be a wonderful motivator with my entrepreneurs that are investing on Shark Tank I love it when I can find in an entrepreneur that had a horrible dad had this go wrong that go wrong uh because they're angry they're angry and they have more to prove I love an entrepreneur like that I relate to them that prejudice you you experienced in in that male dominated industry is it easier to manipulate people when they have a prejudice against you first of all you have to realize they didn't see me I was invisible to them they didn't take me seriously why would they take me seriously even the day I realized I was invisible I realized I had to Advantage I said nobody's watching me does that make them easy to manipulate these men well I don't know if it meant I manipulated them but it was easier to compete with them because the word manipulate is like a it's like a dirty word but at the end of the day if someone is thinking that you don't matter and they're like disrespecting you or they are sexist towards you they're underestimation seems like an opportunity it's a great opportunity um you know who was easy to manipulate though because when the business got large we were more dependent on huge development sites where they had three four hundred condos for sale we'd have to get control of that building and I was a Salesman who got the control I went out after the developers uh the developers you could manipulate easily as a Woman They had all men working for them it was a man's world real estate uh the developers uh didn't take me seriously at all but I flirted I could jolt I wore short skirts I dressed well in tight suits I played my cards I wore high heels even though my feet were killing me yeah did I manipulate them of course I did did I tell them they looked handsome they were all handsome did I tell them they were brilliant you're brilliant they were all brilliant did I manipulate yes I don't even think I'll go to heaven I if you want to call it manipulation your Workforce if I if I spoke to one of your employees and said Barbara like to work with would you imagine they would say to me I know what they would say and you won't believe me they would say I love Barbara well she
actually spoke to your assistant oh you did well she's gonna lie Emily yeah she said you were a nightmare and I'm joking you wouldn't say that but you know you have to ask you have to realize who you're asking Emily is an absolute angel on Earth she has never had a bad day I don't I I wish I was her she's incredible so you can't ask her you have to ask a son of a [ __ ] who works for me what would they say they would say we love Barbara I'm telling you and I deserve it I don't mean to brag but I am the best boss I've ever met by far and I don't think anyone could be a better boss than me honest to God and I think the root of being a good boss is from the very first day I was in business I understood the cardinal rule which is I work for you you don't work for me and that's my attitude my entire life what can I do for you how can I make a job earlier easier what don't you like to do what would you rather do how could I be this for you what what else do you do you want I I shower my people with anything they need selflessly and you'd say well that doesn't put the boss ahead it does because as they get stronger and go up the rank they carry me for a free ride along with them that's how it goes no I do believe the key to being a big a big boss a growing boss and a great boss is really understand you work for who's working for you it's as simple as that you know it's kind of like being a good mother in a way you're slave to your kids you just want to please your children you know I've been thinking about something recently about how um leadership isn't about being and this kind of sounds like it's wrong but let me explain leadership isn't about being consistent with your people some people in your team will require a certain type of treatment to get the best out of them and then some people in your team will require probably the opposite treatment to get the best out of them do can you relate to that does that strike so can I tell you it's a misnomer that you would treat anyone like someone else no I was biased with every single person who work with me I would do different things for different people based on their own need I would just really size them up what's going to push this kid ahead what's going to make this person have confidence what could I do to and I had
a different formula for everyone no I think the key was knowing each individual and what floats their boat what's important to them what's going to make them better no I was never even handed ever with any of the people I worked with because they were all individuals and today more than ever people really want to be individuals they want to be treated as individuals they their interests first you know I I meet a lot of my peers who complain that uh the modern day worker is it wants to be promoted fast wants their interest met I'm like well that's fine I've always done that you know that's the right way to handle people to get the best out of people yeah no that's the way to go wherever that philosophy came from they haven't created a big team or they know better what characteristic would I have to demonstrate working for you that would make you fire me quickest fire you yeah attitude okay absolutely uh you know what happens is as careful as I was to hire and I control the hiring for probably the first 10 years of my business until we got to 500 people and went past that I couldn't do it anymore I did some but not a lot um what I would love to do is call someone to my office on Friday I love firing people on Friday I would stop by someone's desk on a Wednesday and say hey would you have any time sometime on Friday they should have heard about the rumors yes what time is good for you too see you too I couldn't wait till they came in to fire them you know why because I picked out individuals who were negative and my attitude toward the negative person was they were ruining my good kids because people who are negative have to have somebody else to be negative with them they got to talk to somebody complain okay I'm not talking about people who tell you what you're doing wrong they're invaluable so that you can get better I'm telling my chronic complainers and negative people you gotta get rid of them so I learned very early after firing one negative person never tell them why you're firing them okay or you're getting a Rat's Nest why am I negative why aren't I so no you just don't fit the company but why I don't know you just don't fit the company maybe that's a little mean but I
never carried a negative person for more than a couple of months sometimes they're undercover at first but eventually they come out like hey do you have any time on Friday [Music] if you ever ask me for a meeting on Friday I'll take the Friday off blimey why why are you so irked by complainers and is there is it something about the thieves they're thieves they take your money away and they take your energy and the most valuable asset you have is your energy and if they take your energy away you're not going to deliver enough to everybody else is not enough to go around no they're thieves in the night they come in they got their hands in your pockets and they're taking your goods that's how I see negative people when you have a team filled with very positive people it's like they're stuffing your pockets with money and jewels all the time it's the way you want to be it's those people you want to be around have you noticed because I think I've noticed this that you know my my first business where we had about somewhere around 500 people 95 of my people problems were created by like one person of course the complainer yeah the negative person you didn't ever work on Friday no do you know what I didn't realize I should have just made the decision quickly to get rid of them but then I I had that complex which bosses sometimes have where I go well if I get rid of them then it's going to impact the culture and then they're going to do this and sometimes there's so much of a complainer and so negative they've acquired so many ears to be negative too there was this fear that if I if I fire them then there's going to be even more negativity like like a volcano of negativity that was naivety on your part yeah sure you found very differently once you fired amen yeah amen I learned the lesson and one of my philosophies now is like as soon as you know as soon as you know fast as you possibly can and your point about um don't say it's because they are you can't say because you can't win at that game yeah you know it took me probably three years I I hired a great salesman from another firm which was reaching for
me because I groomed all my own no one wanted to come and someone actually wanted to come and work for me from a bigger firm I couldn't believe it I hired this lady she was so negative right away so negative she had two percents outward when you're interviewing and inward when they're working for you and she was so so negative and I really thought I could change her around I'm such a positive human being everybody who's positive I'm gonna change her around and then I learned the important lesson if her parents could make her smile I wasn't going to forget it they had this lady for their whole life and she's miserable I'm not gonna make her happy and so part of it is admitting defeat that you're not all that powerful where you're going to turn somebody around no negative you just get rid of them terrible let's talk about something positive what about compliments compliments when they're genuine not compliments that are empty and not compliments in front of a group for the sake of grandstanding I just don't believe in it people see right through the [ __ ] you know everybody you could get somebody with the lowest IQ in the world you [ __ ] them they know it they just know it you just assume people are smarter than they look okay and so I think a genuine compliment with specifics to back it up is the greatest thing in the world and you'll make someone fly and become even stronger the next day but if it's not specific and why that was so smart that you did and what it did for us that's a compliment let's give her a round of applause okay that's the right kind of comment but you know to find those compliments it is creating a habit as a manager or a business owner of looking for I would walk through and try to find anything good I could talk about anything anybody did good that somebody would stitch on and then I get the details down and then give them a compliment individually if I thought they're a private person but if I thought they're a competitive person I always sit in front of the group because they're competitive and they want everybody to see they're better you know so yeah yes the compliments are so powerful but you know they pass I think the greatest compliment you could give an individual is trust that they are
better than they think they are and I honestly think that people write themselves off for so much less than they're capable of um when you say to someone I noticed you dress I'll give you an example because this is a silly example but I got my advertising manager she was a Salesman who was mediocre meeting overhead and turning a little profit but not great and I looked at her every day and thought she is such a beautiful dresser which she can do with her hair with a clothing is incredible and I went out of my way to walk over to her desk she had the perfect match she had the perfect thing her desk looked like I wanted to vacation there it was so gorgeous so I said to her Anita how would you like to be my advertising manager she said I didn't know you had an advertising manager I said I don't but how about you take it now how did I know she would be exceptional in advertising because everything about her was put together I figured that how to transfer to great graphics beautiful design the land out of the page because she was that was kind of like a page I saw on her desk she was incredible I I I think you just have to find the gift in people and point it out and think how can I take advantage and Anita became probably the the Envy of every firmer in the in the in the city because of our great advertising that wasn't me I got the credit was her but I blossomed her her up because I saw that gift in her you know sounds like a stretch but it's really not you know it's not a stretch if you keep your eyes open and see what people are good at we talked about the mouth there with the smile but what about the eyes you mean looking at someone in the eyes yeah oh you have to I mean do you trust anyone who doesn't make eye contact ever really there you figure they're either insecure they shift insecure dishonest or probably those two that's what I would say dishonest or insecure either way you don't want to hang out with them no the eyes are key all right because I read that in the pandemic when you were hiring for one of your roles you basically there was 500 people and you basically excluded everybody that didn't make eye contact with the camera you've read that about me yeah I think it was
probably exaggerated I don't think it was 500 people but just uh you know a lot of people yeah but a lot of people definitely okay you don't make it absolutely and you excluded everyone who had bad lighting I did yeah why because it showed a lack of aggressiveness and caring for themselves I felt I mean if I was interviewing for a job and I knew it was competitive most jobs are I would want to show my best self I think through everything I mean maybe me more than most people would do it but I think if you show up with bad lighting and then on top of that you don't make good eye contact next please no it's just terrible no it's very hard to hire people through covet online but I never did in the end whoever I hired I insist I meet them in person you can't really to his thorough job unless you're in person I believe or I've never been able to learn how to do that I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast my girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when I was having a shower and she said to me that she tried the heel protein shake which lives on my fridge over there and she said it's amazing low calories you get your 20 odd grams of protein you get your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's nutritionally complete in the protein space there's lots of things but it's hard to find something that is nice especially when consumed just with water if you haven't tried the heel protein product do give it a try The Salted Caramel one if you put some ice cubes in it and you put it in a blender and you try it is as good as pretty much any milkshake on the market just mixed with water it's been a game changer for me because I'm trying to drop my calorie intake and I'm trying to be a little bit more healthy with my diet so this is where heel fits in my life thank you heal for making a product that I actually like Intel now one of our sponsors on this podcast and I'm here to tell you about their vpro platform security and data protection are totally non-negotiable when it comes to the tech technology I use for my businesses I'm constantly thinking about where we can upgrade our systems to protect against potential threats so this is where Intel V pro has become our go-to Intel V Pro is built for businesses it has a hardware-based
multi-layer platform security features protecting from cyber attacks threat detection and also recovery systems all in one platform in an Ever challenging cyber landscape if I can put measures in place that I believe will save me time and money then I absolutely will so head over to intel.co.ukvpro to find out how it could work for your business Shark Tank where I'm a dragon on Dragon's Den you're a shark on Shark Tank all the same yeah means you're a sucker does it to be fair I mean I think dragons are slightly more impressive than sharks I'm gonna be honest you think Shy I think sharks are more impressive sharks are real dragons don't exist we're kind of dragons are silly it's an old-fashioned where it's sharks and sharks well sharks well I mean other than Jaws what if sharks really done for society whereas a dragon is you you're someone of great imagination to to be a dragon you have to have great imagination because they don't exist it's like being a unicorn so can we agree that dragons are better I know I'm afraid okay well you're on Shark Tank and link to what we just said about quickly assessing if a person is is legit and worth investing in what have you learned you've been on the show longer than I've been on the UK version of the show what advice would you give me as a new Dragon to be successful from your experience I would say keep your money in your pocket for a little bit yeah and my first few seasons of Shark Tank I spent so much money threw money at the wall at anything that moved yeah so I hope you haven't made that mistake I needed like 11 investments in my first season so but uh for me I what I have learned in 14 years and I've learned it a good 10 years ago I'd say is I never choose a business I always choose the entrepreneur I have sat there and listened to business plans that I don't even know what they're talking about I it makes no sense to me what they're talking about uh because it's not a business I know or I don't understand the terminology and in the old days I would have thought I was too stupid but now I know I'm smart enough that if I'm not understanding it's okay I'm probably
still smart but I have to be really smart in making the choice of the individual do I trust this person can I visualize them going through a wall what's their background are they good at getting back up do they have ambition not passion passion's so overrated I feel passionate this we really want to do this like saying you're excited about your first date who cares you know where do you marry the lady and see how you feel but I think the commitment and the drive and the ambition is what I'm always looking for I'm looking just just trying to smell it out if someone says they were poor and they didn't have a father let's say I'm biased right away I want to buy the business you want to invest straight away it doesn't mean I will because I have to hear more about how they handle things what kind of an individual they are but no I'm very biased or I should really say I'm I'm not very nice or fair-minded with Rich Kids the problem with investing in a business owned by a rich kid is usually raise money already rather easily it's not Sweat Equity so you got a chunk of change to get started okay that's nice now you would think that would make things easier I think it makes things difficult you don't spend your money wisely it's Papa's money or if or your parents friends money or wherever you got it from so it's not valuable money and I've seen more people stand and say well we pivoted we lost that we pivoted what happened to the guys that gave me the cash what happened to them no regard at all okay when you get a poor kid they typically have something to prove they really have to stretch every penny it's their own money they die and just get a little bit more there's so much a greater need and it's also a desire to do well in living in their life they want to go on vacations they too want to get a sports car they want to get a nice apartment these rich kids have had it all before they've been on vacation everywhere they've always had rich cars Rich parents so I think it's so much harder for rich kid to succeed as an entrepreneur I just love poor kids and I have to tell you out of my whole portfolio I don't have a single rich kid who succeeded
well most of it is because I don't invest in them in the last five years but even when I did years ago none of them succeeded no they went on to do something else my poor people those are my winners yeah they're desperate to succeed the only thing that beats growing up poor in cochrane's opinion is growing up damaged oh yeah well aren't we all damaged in one way or another right but you could get damaged by money and affluence so easily I think it's easier to raise a poor kid than it is a rich kid because of the circles they fly in their value systems who they measure themselves against what they measure I think it's more difficult to be an affluent kid or affluent Rich parent and raise a good kid a good kid with values I really think it's harder you know when I said I spoke to your assistant I did but we did Emily right yeah okay Emily good thing you talk to the good one oh there's another one there's three and they don't like me no more okay um and she told me about some pictures in your office that are hanging on the wall oh those the whole way of Doom what is the whole way of Doom well you see anyone who's on Shark Tank as you well-known Dragon stem has in night in the Sun where they're on the show and everybody orders from them and they become almost Rich overnight or at least they think they're going to be rich and they're all celebrating excited all right and then something goes wrong with the business maybe three to four months out that's my timetable I'm waiting for that day Something's Gonna go wrong it's not just the patent didn't come through that's minor stuff like the mold was wrong where they delivered 10 000 pieces they're made wrong and he had the patent I didn't know he was going to give it to me but he ran off with it something goes wrong I just wait around and I watch and I say how's it going and there's only two different responses to that which is he promised me you know he promised me I mean the guy said he was good I go over to my wall and I turn the
entrepreneur's picture upside down to remind myself never to talk to them again or spend time no I'll talk to them but I'm not going to spend my time because they're victims and then you have the one in four people who handle it this way ah crap I can't believe I made that mistake okay let's let's see what we should do that's an entrepreneur moving on moving out and going forward and taking the blame even if they weren't to blame every one of my really successful businesses I've done so well have had the worst setbacks but they've always taken responsibility and those pictures are always right side up they call me on myself hello how can I help you because they're phenomenal entrepreneurs I believe that the difference between the really good ones and the ones that don't make it are the ones that don't make it know how to be a victim they feel sorry for themselves they blame the next guy and they don't take the responsibility as their own and that's what an entrepreneur does you're the boss it's your problem period it's your your problem rest with you now what are you going to do about it and these kids that are are really equipped to to not hesitate at all but just get on the horse and go Galloping go and go and go and go go going again they're terrific I invest in uh Four Women cousins who have a very clever wow I don't know how clever the business was but I'm their clever over and they lost eight hundred thousand dollars a month three stolen from their accounts couldn't pay the suppliers all of their sales were gone I couldn't wait to talk to them I was not going to say too bad it happened I said hey hi I heard what are you gonna do well we're thinking already back on the horse they recovered the end of the year with something like seven million dollars in sales how did they do it they are just not victims they go forward forward forward forward those are the people I love I love them this allergic reaction to complainers and pessimists and get back to that again no but does it come from I was just reflecting on how much your mother you said you never even saw her sleep no she was just or she didn't complain she just got on with it is it influenced by that
um I'll tell you what my mother did which did influence all of us uh if we went to my mother uh with something my brother John did to me well my sister Ellen did to me something unfair we'd go to her she took this from me she wasn't supposed to my mother would punish us both she didn't hear the complaints she said you're both punished sit down you have an hour that's it there was no sense in complaining about anything so we never complained we learn in short order as little kids you don't complain you just shut up otherwise you both get punished and you know in business it's really that way if you think about it uh yeah if you're going to complain you know I even had an incident I learned very early on that just popped in my head that reminded me so much of my mother I had two department heads who hated each other and I wasn't aware of it someone brought my attention to it anyway one came in and told me what why this other department was getting in the way and the other one in one of them around I said wow this must be terrible for you I was empathetic empathetic listen to both complaints and then I said we here with the second one I went and got the first complainer and I said okay girls uh you obviously have a problem with the way you're working together figure it out you're both fired I was mimicking my mother figure it out or you're both fine I left the room they figured it out they never came to me again with a complaint you know yeah it worked it works against everybody you know it just works against everybody the culture of the business in every way Bill Bill oh [ __ ] bill you know what all my friends call Bill poor Bill this is not a shame I'm the nice person bill is a difficult man and yet everybody who knows us both calls him poor Bill like he married the wrong person that is your husband yes 37 years he said he's the nice one and you're the difficult one who said that you spoke to Bill you spoke to Bill yeah don't believe it I can't believe he even answered the phone he's always watching TV I didn't speak to him oh gosh you know ironically if you did speak
with Bill Bill adores the ground I walk on can never say anything negative and all I do is complain about Bill and all I do is say negative things about him I really mean it I'm a terrible wife I really am not just saying that but you should talk to Bill he'll confirm this I did and he'd confirmed it I did your terrible um the thing I was really compelled by is I was reading how at some point you started out earning Bill yes and that in a relationship can have an interesting Dynamic on the like on the relationship yeah because of the stuff definitely and that's what I was reading about your story about it being a struggle at some point you first lied when you out earned him for the first time you put it down to an accounting error and you seem to kind of not want to it was tough at first you know when I met Bill he owned a brokerage firm in New Jersey and I earned I had one in New York I had 19 20 people here 19 20 people we were even right and then within the next four years I had 500 people and he had 22. not a good scene all right we're both earning about just able to pay our rent kind of when we got married uh but when it went a skew that I out earned him by a mile uh you have ego at risk you know really uh very much so absolutely and I married the kind of guy that was most bulletproof for feeling ashamed about not earning money he was an FBI agent he was a top selling agent in New Jersey when he was a young stud he graduated from Annapolis he was an honored Navy Captain I mean he was accomplished the head of the Republican Club in the state of New Jersey everything he did he was accomplished all I did was run a business all right however all of that stuff is not measured by money you know once I was making a lot of money it was hard for Bill it was hard for Bill it was like everybody knew me once I had notoriety you're married to Barbara he stopped being bullied Bill Higgins the FBI agent he stopped being Bill Higgins the Navy Captain I mean all that stuff uh kind of didn't count as much anymore and it should have because we're in a New York town where everybody
values You by how popular and how much money you make and he was less than me but how did he stay with the marriage after all these years because Bill really doesn't have much value for money he never did it's not important to him he's just a nice guy but I had an issue with it yeah I had an issue I felt uh not feminine enough when you out earn your husband you don't feel that feminine you feel like the caveman instead of cavewoman we have a closing tradition on this podcast yes this question is always left by the okay the last guest the last guest left the question for you what did you learn from your greatest failure I learned that you get back up and all the opportunities and getting back up just got to be a habit of getting up you get up and you're going to find some [ __ ] that you could do something with just get up that's a habit you have to make that habit Barbara thank you my pleasure thank you for the inspiration thank you for the humor you're hilarious and Brilliant and equal measure and you're you absolutely are you absolutely are and you're you're definitely in my top two favorite sharks you and Damien are my favorites so oh forget about Damian okay he's no good Mark's not good thank you so much I don't want to be among your favorite sharks I want to be among your favorite people in the world you're my favorite shark now now that I've mentioned you're so funny but so for sure for sure thank you for the inspiration I don't believe you I'm looking you in the eyes you can trust me I do trust you you're very trustworthy I can tell thank you so much Barbara [Music] quick word from one of our sponsors I've got a tip for all of you that will make your virtual meeting experiences I think 10 times better as some of you may know by now Blue Jeans by Verizon offers seamless high quality video conferencing but the reason why I use blue jeans versus other video conferencing tools is because of immersion their tools make you feel more connected to the employees or customers you're trying to engage with and now they're launching one of their biggest feature enhancements to impact virtual events so far called Blue Jean Studio I actually used it the other
day I did a virtual event using the studio which I think about 700 of you came to TV level production quality all done by one person with very little technical experience on a laptop so if you've got an event coming up and you're thinking about doing it virtually check out blue jean studio now let me know what you think because I genuinely believe I know this is an advert and I'm supposed to say this but I genuinely believe it's the best tool I've seen for doing really immersive simple but high quality production virtual events [Music] foreign [Music]