Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z12wvtj4Kc8
the jurogan experience do you think that the algorithms are designed to do this or do you think that it's just a function of human nature that we tend to gravitate towards things that outrage us and then huddle up together in echo chambers that this is just a natural tribal behavior and that what the algorithms do is essentially just highlight what we're really interested in they magnify it in a feedback loop right so you're right to say that humans do have these trades um you know and i haven't designed the algorithms but i've also talked to people who have and you know a lot of they don't even understand how they work at a certain point like they're off to the races have you seen the social dilemma yeah yeah what would you think about that it's great it's great right yeah yeah um and it's scary too the conclusions that they draw oh certainly i mean i yeah i made a film about eight years ago called terms and conditions may apply you know and that that came out right before the edward snowden revelations you know when it came out peop the initial response was like oh this is maybe conspiratorial surely the government doesn't have this much insight into our behavior and you know and access to um to our devices and our personal information and then the snowden revelations came out and then it was like oh well maybe the series didn't go far enough um you know and i uh and back then we had talked about the idea of how how is technology influencing us how is it changing us manipulating us and it didn't feel like that was the biggest story at the time and this question of privacy and how our rights are being eroded through these agreements that nobody ever really reads and you could find all kinds of uh juicy tidbits hidden in there in terms of what the companies were actually doing and kind of revealing this unholy collusion between the government and and big tech
you know but uh it at the time people would often say well what's the cost you know what's the big deal if they're mining my personal data to serve me with ads and i'd say that the environment we find ourselves in now is the cost do you do anything to personally protect your data do you like use duckduckgo for searches and things along those lines you brave as a browser like do you do that stuff all that yeah yeah use signal vpns vpns i mean i i do my best you know to if a government actor really wants to get at you they're going to be able to yeah i mean you saw the nso clickless spyware story right yes i mean if if there's a zero day that allows you to get access to a microphone and everything that someone's doing on their phone without them even having to click on a link you know it's game over of course governments will abuse that yeah and probably are right now probably all right now yeah yeah where are phones at right there yeah it's um it's interesting because you would think that there would be a market for a platform that becomes bulletproof and there have been some you know linux based uh cell phone operating system phones that they sell like they buy a phone you get a google phone they de-google it and put different software on it and stuff but i'm not sure if that's like if you're deluding yourself into believing that you're actually protected with that stuff where you're actually are protected right i would think they could work around all those things especially something that's i mean it's essentially like open source right like you like if it's a linux based operating system there's some super geniuses out there i'm sure they're gonna be able to hack into that yeah i mean i think with stuff like signal you're just you're just protecting yourself as best you can right you use something that's that's end and encrypted you're doing better
than 99 of people who are out there you're making somebody really have to work to get access to your to your to your stuff and if you're using a vpn and you're using duckduckgo then you're minimizing your digital footprint and you're not as you're not worth as much of these companies and they're not able to to you know manipulate you i guess in the same way through these algos but let me ask you this i mean would you what would you do about the algorithm problem right because on the one hand algorithms are necessary for something like a search engine on the other hand um you know they're they drive the most sensational content things like q and on um and uh and i think have largely facilitated the situation we find ourselves in now watch the entire episode for free only on spotify