Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRZ9EK1e2R0
The Joe Rogan Experience I guess this is an opportunity to bring up Jeff Epstein so you know people sometimes wonder you know like we're scientists you know you know hanging out with him to get you know to get with these young women or something I know scientists there are some scientists like that they were spending time with him because he was giving their Laboratories money yeah that they didn't have to write grants for why was he doing that though oh there are very strong opinions he under I never met him I know people who knew him um but he clearly understood social engineering he understood that rich people have they can get anything they want anything they want except the one thing they can't easily control is their reputation because that requires other people's perceptions and just being rich doesn't make you necessarily respected by certain people yes by certain people no so he understood that very wealthy people will feel more important and can derive more sense of self-respect when they are surrounded by brilliant people and he was very good at bringing truly brilliant people into that mix people like Murray Gilman who discovered the Quark right he's a particle physicist I mean head of the Santa Fe Institute Nobel Prize I mean he's Gilman used to pick on Richard Feynman he was one of the few people who could maybe not verbally joust with him but at a scientific level could could pin that guy so they were on more or less equal tier but fine you know Gail man was right up there so Epstein understood like bring around the the gel mans bring around the top genetic researchers from Harvard by doing that he made these rich people feel like they were in the company of interesting important people interesting and why would scientists spend time with rich people I'll be really honest I do a lot of work for uh these days for talking about science and and trying to generate science philanthropy that's a big part of my life now trying to generate money to give to studies that are really interesting and valid we could talk about that if you like scientists will show up to dinners that normally they'd rather be in their Labs or writing grants or with their families
frankly if there's the possibility of money being given to their laboratory because then they can hire more people and do more science money alone doesn't drive good science but the more money you have the bigger margin of error you have so if Epstein offers offered Laboratories you know a million dollars a year for four years to a guy of that wealth as trivial to a laboratory that is four National Institutes of Health Grants per year and that workload to maintain those four grants is immense so they'd show up with the possibility of getting money that's where they were hanging out with a dirt bag like him and they they had blinders on either they knew or they didn't know what he was up to but they had blinders on because they weren't thinking about the implications well it's also one of the things about something like that must be that if you go there and you see Stephen Pinker and you see Lawrence Krauss and you see Bill Gates it seems like you should be there it seems fine to be there also on you know Sinister diabolical narcissistic and sociopathic but brilliant social engineering on the part events yeah he understood that they felt comfortable in the room because of who else was there yeah rich people like will show up to a place for who's not there as we know they like to have space right and scientists generally don't like to hobnob it's not really their thing what they like to do is work on their pet projects they're they're a little bit like comedians they're in the sense that they have a craft they want to be working on they're only going to to do things like go out and get money if they have to get money and they do a lot to get money well I'm sure there's a social aspect of It sharing around with other brilliant scientists at a wonderful place you have good food and drink and there's pretty girls around yeah but it's probably exciting it's probably exciting although I think that at some level scientists real scientists died in the world scientists would rather just be doing science I'm sure I mean I mean this is a very rare occasion I'm sure that they're doing this so yeah there's a thing that's Harvard sure yeah I mean he kind of he ingratiated himself in this community he just understood it was sort of like I do some work with some professional sports teams right and the
only people that they look up to are tier one special operators you tell a pro MBA player like oh in the NFL they do this they're like whatever you tell them that you know this will increase your your output by 10 they're like whatever they don't care they want to play video games they do not care they want to hang out with their girlfriend or their four girlfriends whatever it is you tell them tier one operators who do high-risk High consequence work and are on deployment schedules that would dissolve you into a puddle of your own tears because it's a vampire schedule you don't get to sleep when you want to and you get you potentially die you potentially all die and their running times are faster their recovery times are faster their shooting accuracy is far better than your shooting actors and that's with a gun and getting shot at and they go okay I'll listen they look up to tier one operators that's a fact and so if you want them to listen you understand that fact you look at what tier one operators are doing that's what professional sports teams are trying to glean that information billionaires they have different interests obviously they some race Yachts some what you know want to start new projects but they want to be around really Innovative interesting people and in Academia there are a very small subset of those running big Laboratories and Epstein just got that down to the detail and then he understood I think with politicians they can their reputations are everything and so he gave them a vaulted world where they could behave how they wanted I mean in some sense I mean he his story is one of of multiple psychologies not just his yeah that's why people that have studied him and the whole case believe that and from other evidence and information as well that he was part of some sort of an intelligence operation and there was compromising these people oh I'm sure that at some point he had information on other people and he just used it as yeah as a and it doesn't have to be strong hand blackmail right he could just say you know we've got information we'll hold it secure well you would just you don't even have to Blackmail someone if you know they have information on you and they have not used it you will act in
their best interest to try to get them on your good side well I mean in the in the unraveling of the all the the dark sordid around um Weinstein it was discovered I think in New York like in near that Avenue down in Alphabet City police uh Precinct um it turns out that there were you know a boatload of files that date back ages and you know there were it's not that cops are corrupt it's that they're incentivized by certain things too and their bosses were telling them you got to do certain things you got to put away certain files and you know people are trying to make careers I I think that's why that show it's a little outdated now but um from technology standpoint but the wire was so brilliant is that every aspect of that was a human endeavor and science is a human endeavor and I I we're kind of paying attention to the the darker unfortunate side they're also I again I always feel like I got a shine light where it belongs to which is that a lot of amazing science is happening because of excellent philanthropy of people that are not pedophiles yes right of course and those people you know and but let's be honest walk onto any University campus look at the names on the sides of the buildings do you think they're there to honor those people because those were great people sometimes they're great people they're there because those people donated 50 to 100 million dollars right I mean and this has been known in in law schools and business schools for a long time because you'd see it on this that was it kind of more accepted there because it's business and law right right but if you walk onto any campus I don't care if it's UT Austin or Stanford or it's Harvard the names on those sides of buildings sometimes it's the Kennedy building sometimes it's the Rockefeller building more often than not these are names of people you don't recognize anymore and names of people don't even live in the United States they gave 100 million dollars for a building that trains medical students universities are a business too 100 and it doesn't mean that they're trying to corrupt anybody but they have to survive you've got to pay the janitor yeah yeah pay the cops you get on the campus I mean so it is a business and I think you that's the Human Side actually
to your credit I learned from you we I think you may or may not remember but a few years ago we were talking about everything that was going on in the public health thing and you're like the reason I'm curious about this and I don't trust this these were your words more or less was because I know about people and that's at the end of the day it's all about people in their psychology