Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeRHbaj194I
Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day okay especially the first season like 1972 or three I think Columbo I almost forgot about that show they they used to tell him not to smoke well no like the character I could tell they're probably just building up like like you notice that he has a cigar in his hands the whole series or every episode but but I it's funny the 1972 people like please don't smoke in here or Mr col Lieutenant Columbo he's always being like reprimanded for it interesting I forgot about that and he's always really you know Peter Fox charact he's always like oh oh sorry and he puts it out always he's never like upset or anything yeah he was that was an interesting character right because he was like this bumbling guy who was actually not he was kind of setting you up the whole time letting you underestimate him acting pardon me yeah another he's always about to leave and he's like oh yeah and he comes back and and annoying people and they're like incredible though uh aesthetic and like the other day I'm watching this episode that Jonathan Demi directed Steven Spielberg I mean like all of these famous directors start to cut their teeth in TV and on episodic things like that but there's a real tone to it and stuff that's cool and the way everyone looked but one other funny thing about it that I've noticed and Columbo is there always starts with a murder and then usually a lot of times in the Arc of the story someone shows up to the crime scene usually whoever did it or whatever right and so but they're never upset you know there's never someone that R what happened here your uncle's been murdered oh I didn't do it you know it's kind of like how it starts instead of some dramatic you know like oh my God you know how could this you know no one's even F they're just like okay uh well you're bothering me now you know and cop shows you can always tell police even SVU they're always like I've had enough can you guys leave and they leave I'm like is that how it goes I I don't know no it's weird how many of those shows there are where they catch the bad guy like that is it's like something that I
guess people with anxiety need to let them feel like if someone is a bad person and they do commit a murder they're going to get caught like are the are the interest in those kind of dark scenarios you're only interested in them when there's Justice at the end is that what you're saying yeah because anything nebulous or whatever is like uh too real maybe yeah there's those shows and then there's medical shows remember when there was there was a time where there like every other [ __ ] show on TV was about a hospital yeah yeah yeah and the only one that I rarely remember is Quincy so Jack kugman yelling at everyone all the you know he's yelling about the the sandwich he's yelling about the blood sample he's when we were kids we were hardcore we were in you know that initial phase of American kind of hardcore punk stuff cuz we had just missed out the like 77 78 79 and then there was an episode about the LA scene and they and Quincy goes to the punk Club don't you see what you kids are doing to yourselves the loud music and the anger and the the pills or whatever you know he like and there was a thing when when we were kids and there was the song I forget which band did it but if you were you were fake if you were Quincy punk you know because that they took like the way people looked on Quincy or whatever and that instantly became a f Punker yeah yeah your [ __ ] when you started out like what what was The Inspirations for your band like what were you guys into I mean it's it's hard to untangle because my dad was a singer so our dad was a singer and he was very well my dad's a kind of a strange guy in general um a lovely guy but Dynamic to say the least but he had like a a hit in the late 50s called booma dip dip like a top 40 kind of record and uh and a couple of subsequent sort of you know rock and roll singles and he was living in New York and stuff and then when he that kind of pales out and then he moves back to Atlanta and he immerses himself in like the folk music scene and he was signed to a label called ABC Paramount so by the time I come along in ' 66 it's kind of he's not doing it anymore um what was he doing he was shata guy he was in a middle he was like
Willie lman you know he was in the Garment business my his my grandfather Ike Robinson they were in children's wear my dad was in women's wear and then ended later back in children's wear but the one thing around the house that I remember earliest memories are him peeling out this his guitar and singing folk songs and just I don't know I I'm dyslexic person and uh so my you know what I mean so there was I don't know if that has anything to do with it but there was something about always singing these songs it would like open up stuff for me almost like being high or in a in a not in a psychedelic way but in a way that it changed the space you know what I mean and record started doing that to me very early and that kind of is where so it's kind of we think it's normal other kids dads aren't playing old folk songs at the house that I know you know but by the time rich and I you know we kind of like angst-ridden Suburban youth you know for some reason my parents decided to move to the suburbs financial reasons General apathy uh you know ready to you know begin the mound of uh resentment and regret I don't know um all the things the suburbs represent me you know what I mean uh I would say for me there was a television show and the do you remember NightLight on USA Network back in the early days I remember the name I don't even remember what it was about yeah it would be like it would come on at midnight and it would be concerts and like films like cool like probably the first time I saw eraser head or Rude Boy the movie about The Clash and uh you know decliner Western Civilization Punk things and New Wave things and uh I always had an interest in the in stranger things you know and things that weren't normal or you know uh you know Mr Roper on thre's company or whatever like you know what I mean um and this show they had a show that came on at 2 in the morning and it was from Los Angeles called New Wave Theater and that was like huge huge being a kid in the suburbs in Georgia where you know it's still pretty
much like that band all the people listen to that band Alabama and you know they wear like trucker hats and flannels and like want to beat you up because you have a Ramon's record or something you know that's how it was you know wow so this show was like a real Beacon of you know my mom was like oh yeah it is Peter Ivers very interesting uh character Peter Ivers um wealth of material they've surfaced in many incarnations tonight they're here as 45 Graves piece of wax 45 yeah so this is what I'm really into Don BS is the drummer in 45 Grave who was in the [Music] germs not a happy childhood amongst them no but well I don't know but they definitely made amazing beautiful cool Outsider Art and you know I think something that we have a a hard time understanding in this day and age is Art that's made because of the visceral interaction with you and other people that has nothing to do with I'm going to be a big star know some of the things I think I I mean [ __ ] I'm like the one of the last I mean The Black Crows we have to be one of the last bands of the time where we kind of felt it was our duty to never truly give in to the other side you know what I mean and kind of understand this Us Versus Them idea you know what I mean or Vibe is something that's inspiring and something that is like um you know I was always interested in counterculture you know and anyone again that's like why the algorithm maybe isn't as perfect or or it never will overtake everything because there's always going to be the one person who's like I'm going this way that's not enough for me you know the Deep dive people and the and so we kind of found ourselves in the crosshairs of this kind of stuff the cramps we were Rin the cramps the gun club so and then RM comes around their first record chronic town and so my dad H and my mom and dad had a lot of Records maybe 250 records 300 records you know which was a lot of Records back then Bluegrass records you know Lester flat neural scrubs records or moose Allison records Jimmy Reid records Johnny Guitar Watson and then they had you know Buffalo Springfield records and the
um Bob Dylan records I mean that's a big I mean for millions of people but something as a kid that I knew no other kids would come you guys want to come over and listen to records I'm going to put on you know the times AR changing I be like again it would be a reason to get beat beat up you know but that kind of stuff catapults us into then punk rock comes along and it's like oh it's anyone can do this you don't have to be we'll figure it out later what talent or whatever you know what I mean like you we just want to plug in and start going d d d and singing horrible things and trying to be offensive you know what I mean because think about you now you go to the you know now people walk around in dead Kennedy's t-shirts and it's like oh cool but back then dead Kennedy's made people like the name of that band The Circle Jerks like the names of these bands made people upset right and legitimate Rebellion yeah in instead of you know posturing which is a lot of what's going on today with dead Kennedy's t-shirts but I mean I think inevitably anything like that I mean Edgar Allen Poe was that in a literary way and the you know the the tail end of the Victorian age but now he's just like a thing hanging in Somey kids car like a air freshener or something you know what I mean yeah so things get swallowed up culturally right and and regurgitated as just a you know and it just so happens that dead kennedies have one of the greatest logos of all time but yeah well it's so there's always going to be adherence to the you know what most people are interested in and what's popular and then people that are trying to mimic what's popular so that they can become popular and then there's always legitimate counterculture where people are just like I don't Vibe with any of this I'm looking for something else yeah I'm looking for to something that's real something that's raw and as I think that's going to accelerate with AI music and you know all this electronic music and again as you were saying before stuff that's sort of created to feed the algorithm yeah you know there's there's strategies to become successful rather than just expression that resonates of people let the PE yeah yeah in a way I mean someone took a chance you know a
band like Alan Vega and you know like suicide like someone you know the no Wave Music in New York in the late 70s someone took a chance and said yeah I always think about how weird was that you know like bringing that into a studio where who was just in here [ __ ] 38 Special or some [ __ ] you know what I mean and then there's like this or whatever you know what I mean I mean it's a cool thing about early you know like the First Sex Pistols record the The Clash records a little different but even The Dead Boys or bands like that like a lot of those early Punk records and a lot of the Post Punk records those are bands they're not making records trying to sound you know oh I can make a record sound like I don't give a [ __ ] or something on my garage you know you can do anything now with like a button and uh and and people and I like lowii [ __ ] too of course but back then they're these bands they're not making lowii records they're in just like that's a real band in a but with great gear and people who are making like records that we would think are sonically like oh that's correct right and then you have like these punk people in there just like you can't turn it up all the way well we're doing that you know what I mean wasn't this sort of rebellion out you guys had like a falling out with zezy top right when you were on tour wasn't part of it something about corporate involvement yeah we were always and it's funny I just saw Billy Gibbons a couple weeks ago in London and we've been friends for many years and a massive zezy top fan I mean what a those records especially the early records I mean they just sound delicious you know what I mean I just and when what is it uh is which one is it is it Rio Grande mod I don't know one of those records where you open it and there's like a giant play of Mexican food like growing up in Atlanta like that was I didn't know what that you know what I mean like you could get that you we had barbecue and we had soul food you know we have our own Regional culinary identity but to see stuff like that I was like wow I got to try that you know what I mean um but no we they I don't even know if zezy top where they were in their career if they knew anything that was going on about
like these guys that were the opening band except for the fact that you know in the music business at that time when you're still selling records and you're selling 250,000 records every week or whatever for a couple years so like that starts to be kooky when it was a thing but they were sponsored by Miller Light and uh I just got into this thing where you know so we'd go on stage and do our thing and there's big Miller Light posters all over the state or whatever you know and I got in my little troublemaker mine we're The Black Crows you know what I mean we we no one gives us money we don't drink this be and no one gives us [ __ ] money you know I'm standing under this sign cuz I have to be here tonight but I want you to know that no [ __ ] beer company sponsors our music no one owns us no one you know what I mean I had these naive sort of thing about like I don't know and we my brother and I talk about it a lot and as we've gotten older and especially since we put the band back together these last few years and have been in a really positive place in a really good place I realized like you know part of our part of that that we were involved in we believed in like as if Rock the what we feel is really the true essence of rock and roll is like I I I describe it as like the movie Quest for Fire you know when they have to keep the fire burning in that little thing and they're going across the swamp and they don't want the neander tals to get it or whatever that's kind of kind of how we felt in a weird way about everything that was out of you know one minute you're in control your kids were writing songs we're in control of that I'm in control of like this is what we're doing this is how we look this is what we are and then you're in a grown-up world and you've sold you've made people tens of millions of dollars and I'm hardly a a Savvy business person I never could be I never would be wasn't in the cards for me um and so part of our like being hard about it or being difficult uh not being compliant was trying to in our minds keep this pure thing you know what I mean and in a way that's still is part
of what we are today how old were you guys back then oh in the summer of 89 Rich was 18 I was 2 three when we made our first record wow just a young rebel well you know the other thing is is RO you know you remember rock and roll was culturally and socially its place and and its importance and its reverence was a lot different than today yeah you know I think it's one thing I think is cool about hip-hop music is the hip-hop stars have taken over the that kind of attitude yes um which I when I see their fashion and I see you know I mean there's lots of hip-hop's not one thing of course right and I'm 57 I like what I like you know I like old records anyway but when I hear new things that I like and I'm like okay so they're singing about drugs they're singing about sex and you know they're singing about you know may maybe I can't really identify with the violence of poverty and stuff you know what I mean the extreme nature of some of it but but it's that's another form of rebellion as well yeah and it's it's that's it's an hip-hop itself is an interesting art form because there's not a push to popify it you know like the the hardcore hip-hop artists are very successful and the lyrics are rough yeah you know they're they're very hard-edged lyrics but yet these are the lyrics that you know get millions and millions of views you can't even say millions of sold albums anymore because it's like that's that had to be the weirdest thing to watch the sale of albums evaporate not just the sale you're absolutely correct not just the sale but the the meaning of a record like of you know and again in the big scheme of things the record business isn't as old as say you know writing or whatever but in the way that we would listen to music and you would you know there's a company that would find talent and put that whole thing but yeah making a record and saying okay we're [Music] songwriters uh this is what we're this is our this is our latest work this is what we've been working on this is our craft and this is our talent and our poetry and our this is what we want to say now it's
like you know an album you know what I mean like I personally think that it's still an important medium and I I've yet to give up on it you know what I mean uh if they said right you know oh you know what I mean what am I that's what I've always that's what rich and I have always done we we write songs it was one of the only things again the way we could could experience the world was through that because he's you know as crazy as me just doesn't talk as much you know not crazy but I mean different you know um artists you know I think it resonates with a lot of people which is why there's this Resurgence of vinyl right like people still want to listen to actual vinyl they still want to see an actual album you know aged and there's there's a lot of like looking at that there's a lot of reminiscing from people that like my age and your age that were around when these things were the way you consumed music you I've been buying records since I was 12 years old you know what I mean like and it was weird maybe that's because my mom and dad had a lot of Records but you know my wife and I we just moved just around the block in LA and we've been together seven years but we kept our records separate I don't know we have thousands and thousands I just put 4,000 records in storage because we don't have space for them wow and but I'm like but it's funny because no matter what I see a record store I'm going in and I'm I can I could and you know after however many years of buying records I know what I'm looking for and I don't buy records online very much I still like to how I don't know I like to I'm like a kid when I if I've been looking for something and I see it my I'm like I get a shot of of like endorphins I'm like you know what I mean I'm looking around like I don't want you know yeah it's weird it's geeky stuff it's nerd stuff but um but the record store was really important to me as a young person and a musician because before you could go on your phone or before the algorith whatever like there's a another person that looks cool like oh you know what I mean like they have Chelsea boots on or like a cool band t-shirt in the suburbs back in the 80s it was it like you know what I mean if
you saw someone you took the chance to be like when need to go to their house and look through their records you know what I mean and it's funny that's still that way you know what I mean I have so many friends in my life and we're friends because of Records you know what I mean and it's like my wife and I DJ all the time in LA and we go to New York and we carry our records around you DJ like yeah like we have the my wife's name is Camille So we have the best DJ name ever the captain and Camille uh we do all yeah concerts and bars and parties and gigs and stuff really when did you start doing that DJing uh I started like well back in the 80s everyone used to take a turn playing records at the pizza place they had two turntables called felinis in Atlanta where all the as my dad referred to them dirt bags and low lives hung out everyone in a band of course um but then in uh I guess in the early 2000s a friend of mine that worked at the great record store other music in New York my friend Michael we started doing these nights of playing like a lot of weird psych folk as a the kind of a genre and we both love those records and we called that we called guru's Galore and uh yeah and just when I wasn't doing The Black Crows I had this band called The crb we were like a little psychedelic folk rock little group that toured around and made a bunch of Records but our so we played two sets a night so it was kind of like Grateful Dead model like very hey trippy so but the crb in especially in California we always had friends DJ the shows been doors open till after the show and in between sets playing records um I don't know it's just something we've always done and my wife used to DJ before I met her and stuff so so just just something you enjoy we I by the way if I could make if I make money doing it I would never do it if I if me and Camille could just play records I would be the happiest person in the world you would stop performing no I'm kidding I love singing I love performing I love being in a band you know what I mean I I love uh it's changed a lot like anything else and travel and everything
but I personally it's yet to beat the adventure out of me you know what I mean you never know same thing about why I could go online and buy whatever book or record I want right now anything almost anything you could imagine you know is available is available but you know I I I know when I'm in Denver I'm going to this certain bookstore and I know that what that they have really curated things in there that I'm looking for I can wander into you know you never know who you're going to meet you never know what you're going to eat who you know what I mean the laughs and the you know it's still a lot of stuff out there for someone like me a lot of uh stimuli real experiences yeah that are good and human yeah human experiences yeah I mean that is what live music and live performance is all about right I mean music is great live music is something really special I tell you the you know the pandemic was weird for the world and it was you know for artists and musicians we had you know no one's no government bailout for the guy you know playing guitar or whatever but as hard as it was uh one the one of the worst parts of it to me was not not just being able to do what we do but not going to see bands you know what I mean I I have a I have a label called Silver Arrow and we've been doing this for a few years oh The Black Crows records come out on Silver Arrow it's a little different but I'm always going to see bands you know what I mean I'm we go whether it's the rolling stones or whether we go see a band at a little Club in LA and I'm always looking for new you know things to people that are interesting if I could help them out in their careers a lot of it is with really young artists I want to put them in the studio I want to give them good experience I want to give them a great record deal because the it's changed the model um but we but to do that you have to go out and get in it you know what I mean and it's we always laugh I'm like is there anyone older here tonight than me you know like you're looking oh there's one you know I mean there's a freaky dude who still goes to see bands yeah well people don't want to let it go and why should they why should I mean in LA right now is a great time I mean there's a lot of good music going on in
LA and there's a lot of bars where you know we know if someone has a it plays great records we'll go listen to them play records you know what I mean there's a lot of good record people bands there's a lot of cool La is very alive right now no kidding like what parts of LA are I mean it happens all over but especially more downtown and like to the East downtown I mean yeah if you have to survive getting into the place is so [ __ ] up I know but that's probably something that adds to the feeling of it you know what it does and it's funny because I had a nostalgic moment about when we were started talking about look man I'm don't get me wrong my parents did the best they could they're just [ __ ] people too but part of the other part of Adventure and the other part of being interesting in like New Wave Theater my mom's like they all look like mental patients just like you you know like great you know but was to go to downtown Atlanta in the 80s was dangerous too you know during the crack epidemic and uh it was a violent place and um and we were you know obviously we were white kids from the suburbs traversing like this urban place to get into these little underground clubs to see these bands um that added to it you know what I mean it added and just the aesthetic you know what I mean I was obsess and I still am an obsessive influenced by the beat writers and beat culture and so for me like you know jack kowak isn't writing about the suburbs he's writing about the you know Mexico City or what you know what I mean like all the Gregory Corso or Alan Ginsburg all these poets and people are writing about these experiences that don't seem to be happening in like a neighborhood where they call the houses a five four and a door you know right so a certain angst is cultivated yeah you know that only that the only thing they could satisfy that would be something that I felt was gritty and real well there's a there's something about if you can I mean I haven't been to Downtown LA to see music in quite a while but the last time I went there I saw Gary Clark Jr and honey honey at this very small place with uh you know maybe there was like 200 people in there I took my daughter and it was like a late show on a Monday night like 11:30
and here we're seeing Gary Gary Clark Jr and honey honey play a cover of uh Midnight Rider and uh it just it just felt so special cuz there was no one there and you survived and you survived and you get out you're like let's get out of here where's the car the [ __ ] out of here but you know what's weird about that and I I get it and we but haven't I I I spend a lot of my time reading I read a lot of varied materials and one thing that comes up is humans are dangerous yeah and places where there's [ __ ] ton of them are usually pretty gross and dangerous yeah it's just a numbers thing right it's totally numbers thing it's other things ills as well sure that are hard for us to deal with and and look if we're lucky enough to be walking up right and me somehow mentally stable or whatever right um but but you're but I think cities have always been dangerous places they certainly have ancient Rome was a dangerous place oh yeah you know what I mean I mean it was so wild we were just in Sicily and we went to palmo for the day and it was W have you ever been to poo it's wild yeah that city is like a like an electric wire that's got Sparks shooting out of it and you can't get a hold of it that's where my grandfather's from yeah yeah when we went to um Italy one of the the most interesting things by is this water yes and there's coffee in this if you want that cheers um one of the most interesting things is just Italy in general is like I every time I go there I'm like maybe I should live like this like they they [ __ ] know how to relax people know how to relax like with the way they sit down and eat no one sits down eat for 40 minutes you sit down and eat for two hours French people have it dialed in pretty good as well and they have Pas which it's the you know what is pasti pastis is a it's it's a aatif from the south of France you ever see it says Ricard Marse Marse is famous for pasti it's a it's all Mediterranean cultures have an anet based drink Italians have zambuka the Greeks have uzo aat in Leb people and there's all sorts of them in the south of France they drink one that's a little more uh sophisticated into a lot more herbs and things in it
and they say you always know in France someone from marsill cuz they always have a pasti in their hands it's like for it's a high alcohol level a lot of sugar but it's delicious you put it in ice and dilute it with water and it makes it all this kind of Milky color you know it's genius well just you only have a a certain amount of time on this planet and they've chosen to live their time in a more relaxed manner more Community Based and just people like to sit around do you think that any of that has to do with embracing a certain middle classness or or even lower middle you know what I mean like The Working Man you know what I mean even in a blue collar way I think you know what I'm saying whereas here it seems that's been Stripped Away from something to be proud of unless it's kind of in a way um distortedly proud you know Distortion of what that could be right I know what you're saying yeah well in here it's supposed to be your your main goal is to get to be the type of person that can look down upon that yeah yeah totally yeah you your your goal is not to exist in that and just accept it that this is life that life is you have money for food you have money for your house like you're not if you media like sitcoms from the 70s whether it's Archie Bunker or whatever like they're just people with jobs and even taxi or Barney Miller or whatever you know what I mean and now it's like then it turns into full House where somehow all these people and these kids live in this amazing house and everyone has clean clothes you know what I mean it's like there's no struggle yeah totally yeah and no no rec it's not just recognition I think it's and it's not celebratory it's just like look man this we're this doesn't make the man right this what what my material things don't make me who I am it's who I am how I feel what I you know what I've learned that's the big problem is what we're sold in Western culture that um the the goal is to acquire things and to achieve a certain financial status and then then you'll have made it I get it pasti doesn't grow in trees you know what I mean I got to pay for that [ __ ] right but it's not that expensive you know what I mean it's not it's just you know [ __ ] up about that though like when we
were kids and I get like I said I I made the choice in my life Mom and Dad we weren't you know we they were middle class people but I made the choice when I said I'm not going to University I'm going to be in a band my dad that was like the last dollar I ever saw not even like hey you know what I mean and but I made that choice that choice wasn't made for me right right you know what I mean and within two years I'm on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine and we're [ __ ] around and you know what I mean like selling millions of Records I get I get that you know what I mean I'm it's not lost on me but it gets back to where we started talking about there will always be a a part of me uh that is making music because it's really maybe the only place where I'm truly free you know what I mean I have the freedom you know it's funny I tell this story we were on Saturday Night Live two times the second time was in on our second album Southern Harmony and we went on the show it was the number one Rec album in in America the debuted number one our new single was a song called sometimes salvation we were going to play that and then we're were going to play one of our big hit records and at the time it was a you know called remedy and we had just written this song called non-fiction and I was like let's play non-fiction and and it's funny because it's different as my brother and I are rich was like yeah [ __ ] it you know what I mean like it's a cool song the guy whoever was the music guy he was like you can't do that and I was like well I mean we can do what we want I think he was mad cuz we were smoking weed in the dressing I'm like didn't John balushi O in the bathroom I'm like what do you [ __ ] care call the cops yeah I told him call the cops we get arrested and Saturday Night Live for smoking weed will be big than than this but the guy now that I'm older I realize I'm just totally being just horrible like kid but he goes you're making a big mistake not playing this single and I said okay well here's the deal you're on this show next week with some other [ __ ] band and then the next week after that and then the next week after that when this is my band so let me make
the mistake I'm not GNA let you tell us what to do and if it's a mistake then we'll [ __ ] eat it won't we and I'm still here and where is he well it's funny someone told me he has a I forget his name I ran into him once before he did not like our attitude he has he was on a a podcast about saring out live or something and said we were the worst people he ever dealt with in his entire career there and I was like well thank you that's funny the worst how cuz you just didn't listen to him yeah yeah we didn't do what he wanted that's not what you're supposed to do with artists especially when you're young and you're still like the fire is like so intense you know that's always the problem with executive mindsets versus artistic mindsets right and you some producer character who just wants everything to go according to this very specific plan they have laid out and you're trying to take an artist and first of all just trying to take an artist and making them sing one song is kind of crazy right it's yeah I mean there's I mean I think we see that now yeah you know we see people are like I'll do it I'll do it you know I mean there some who's ready to jump up and do anything and I think that's been a part of Showbiz but that's kind of what we were saying before I think the talent show thing the you know the vote for me right you know what no one was voting for us we were unvote right and that was part of the reason that we were drawn to these characters and these people and these other Outsiders and these other whatever kind of spectrum we're on or whatever that's different that would we were like you know music to us represented everything anti vote for me but did it feel weird to transcend that and become mainstream massive yes it's still weird what do the ju to position me it has to be so strange you're these Rebels and then all of a sudden you're the number one [ __ ] band in the world and then yeah and it's it was tough it was maybe tougher for me because I was was more boots on the ground in the scene and with people and now it's like especially in the 80s in Atlanta it was like you know [ __ ] major anyone who signs with a major label man [ __ ] that
you know what I mean and I'm like yeah you know like power to the people or whatever you know and then it's like you're on MTV 30 times a day and you know in between [ __ ] Toyota commercials and Snapple or whatever you know what I mean like so and it's weird because our politics are so in line with so many of the like the alternative politics of Music the way you know uh that would L the grunge or whatever you know so you know I'm the same age as all of the grunge bands but I don't exist in the 90s in the same way we weren't you know what I mean like because we were doing something but it is funny like would you know people say well Kirk no [ __ ] label is signing a Kirk C today but as a matter of fact Kurt and our generation of people were we were talking about compliance and Defiance you're making a mistake [ __ ] it it's my mistake to make it's my band it's my art and people make we M and my kind of generation it's not about being old but now I think there's so much compliance okay I don't want to cause any trouble at the record lab this is we're all distorted right now with social media and all the different avenues for people to get attention and to get famous it's so so easy I shouldn't say it's easy because it's rare but common so it's like it's more it's it's more highlighted which way you can go to achieve success but do do you remember that famous time where Kirk Cobain and Nana were playing and they were forcing them to lip sync yeah yeah and so what did Kurt do did he start reading out of a book or something like that like he did did a bunch of wild things like wild yeah yeah of course I mean see if you can find that Jamie cuz it's kind of hilarious yeah I I know what nobody did that at the time and they were telling them no no no you can't play Live yeah here it is per set to perform the recent single Smells Like Teen Spirit the British music chart television program top of the pops time to show at a policy requiring artists to sing live vocals over pre-recorded backtracks as you would expect Kirk ban and his bandmates would not let this go without having some fun so they started [ __ ] around in the middle of the song the result was and still one of the
greatest middle fingers to live performances ever the band literally made its own shred video Yeah amazing yeah cuz you got to sing the live vocal over the track so he started [ __ ] around and coming up with new life great yeah I mean we we loved The Replacements you know that was like a and like their being on Saturday live was a disaster but we thought that's our band you know what I mean I remember every [ __ ] person that we knew in Atlanta that Saturday night that The Replacements came on and Maj in TV on S live we all were at parties and watching it and getting completely shitfaced watching they like shave their eyebrows off and [ __ ] and we're rolling around and change clothes and like and people were like oh dear you know we were like yeah cheering it on like that's how you that's it isn't that part of one of the goals is to be that big of a paint in the ass to the and who are you being a pain in the ass to but some Authority right something that says you can't do that this is the way it goes and that changes you know but I think as in as a youth that's definitely something I'm not feeling with a lot of bands I mean I think it's there in like the punk scene and and stuff like that but but they're not they're not getting access to them you know Green Green Day is still that way I feel the carrot is still dangled right in front of everybody's fa is so close now you know especially with people that make it independently through YouTube and Tik Tok and all these different venues they're just so many different ways that someone could become massively successful now see this is where I become the time traveler I am from the last century I get it I I find I don't you know I think a guy smashing his nuts on a rail on a skateboard is as funny as anyone but I've seen it you know what I mean yeah it's not like you know what I mean it's not like um Steve cougan or something you know what I mean like craft and like subtext and like all this other weird cerebral stuff with comedy or whatever I just don't I will never I gu it's just me as well the things that I the cinema that I enjoy the the books I read the records that I listen to there is all of them if
there's one thing in common there's a level of craft there's a difference between having it's the difference between having a fine meal at a very nice restaurant versus eating garbage yeah eating tasty garbage and Tik Tok is tasty garbage yeah you're right that's absolutely I've never thought about it like it's bad for you and you can't put it down and you keep going to it and you over consume it and at least when you do when it's just visual you don't get a big stain on your shirt and well you get a stain on I think you get a stain on your brain yeah I really do I do I think so much of what's going on today like even if I just waste 10 minutes scrolling through Tik Tok when it's over I just feel like confused like what am I doing like why am I [ __ ] paying attention to this [ __ ] I I don't I'm not I don't have any I never had my I never did any of that you have Facebook Twitter nothing no I mean the band has one I guess but you know that's perfect I don't personally good I never tweeted or any of those good for you and it's funny my phone like I'm still this way you want to my best friends like the three or four people in the world that like I'm super super the closest people we talk on the phone yeah oh yeah like I love talking on the phone for hours you know what I mean about whatever so it's I I I get it but I don't yeah I'm one of those older I just well you developed in a different time and this time is [ __ ] bizarre I can't imagine spending your life grown ass people spending all of their time playing video games that's a real thing well at least that's exciting it is the yeah video games some video games shock or no some video games are so immersive man you have 3D sound and incredible Graphics running through corridors and people are chasing you it's very exciting and it hits all of your dopamine receptors and it fires you up I mean video games are pretty [ __ ] amazing now but it's just that the world that we're living in today is it's not designed for human beings it's designed to capture human beings capture your attention it's not it's not a like if if you're you're spending your time going from a a coffee shop to a restaurant to a bookstore to a record
store to a live concer Muse to an art gallery these are human experiences these are human experiences but if you're take spending your time arguing with people on Twitter all day like nothing is more depressing to me than seeing old rock stars argue about politics on Twitter it is so goddamn depressing watching Rock star's virtue signal and uh attacking people personally for having differing political beliefs like and and then looking at their timeline and realizing these poor [ __ ] are addicted to this [ __ ] and they're they're doing this five six hours every day get off my lawn yeah it's it's get off my lawn you get off my lawn I me you know it's [ __ ] rock stars it's like good Lord man do you have friends like get out yeah get out of the house stop doing this we we just you know it's funny we were gone for three months we did the states on this latest tour we played a lot of new songs from our latest record it was amazing and then we finished in Europe and and my wife and I stayed in Sicily and went back to London at the end and I've been doing it for 35 years of that you know 1990 first time I go to Europe and and it's still like I don't care 35 years it's a lot of shows I don't care if I wake up when I'm tired and we have friends all over the place which is a beautiful thing friends and amdam friends in Paris friends in London friends in Madrid friends in this this you know Germany whatever but we're we're constantly out doing you know what I mean there's no way we're not hitting the town in any town and finding what it has that makes maybe it unique or special whether that's taste smell touch or whatever I mean it's I I it sounds silly but like I said before it's Advent there's still Adventure in the world and I'm not talking about jumping out of an airplane Adventure or you know that just stimuli I I think it's it's cognitive nutrition I think it's actually good for you to experience different cultures and see how people hang out and see their restaurants and see you know way and you see everyone's doing the same [ __ ] you know they just styling it a little different doing it in a different way but it it flavors your understanding of human beings that's why my very very special place the thing that I love almost more than any other thing is
Jamaica really I've been I was lucky enough to have a dear friend introduce me to Jamaica 30 years ago and I have friends there and uh I have a whole life there that has nothing to do with anything other than Jamaica [ __ ] and I go to the country and like we like have like a country kind of Life there you know by the ocean and no Resorts you know the food there is [ __ ] amazing amazing food in Jamaica Jamaican food is so delicious and you have to get out there and eat it and they have like anything else you know the fruits there the vegetables there the seafood and and you know they say in Jamaica that the goat a goat in Jamaica only has one bad day man you know yeah it's not even a whole bad day it's just a quick moment one bad moment and that's a wrap one bad moment and the rest we're all happy with you know yeah and then the rest everyone's eating it yeah that's one of the things I loved about uh Anthony Bourdain show you know that he would go and really immerse himself in these cultures and eat their food and hang out with their chefs and hang out with the people and get toured you know someone would take them on a tour around the town you know what happened to sometimes he would be tired and hung over oh yeah and most of the time but but again you know i' have people I mean I I get it man everyone has a tough thing but it's like oh dear I I don't know you know I better get this I'm like okay you if you enjoy what you're doing being tired is not that bad if you enjoy what you're doing it's okay so what just get up have a coffee let's go and I and I [ __ ] you're not if if for some reason I had to like get a quick 20 25 in I could curl up right there and do it and you wouldn't even know I was here I believe you like expert that's 35 years of being on the road knowing had a power naap I got to get I got to go down I'm going to like be in like in an intersection like you way around with my pants down by my ankles or something I've learned how to sleep instantly on planes I get on a plane and almost always I'm out cold me too I annoy every single person I'm traveling with yeah like how does he asleep she's like what how'd you fall asleep that quick even with my Jamaican dog in my life we
brought a when my wife and I were married in Jamaica and we have a little Street dog that we brought back oh that's cool bamy long face yeah and like bam she's 35 lbs but I can eat even sleep with my Jamaican street dog on my lap Ah that's cool so Jamaica's your spot huh F and they just got hit very hard with this hurricane so it's um my friends are okay and stuff but they everyone's really shooking up over in Jamaica oh scary [ __ ] man and it's been a bad they haven't had something like that since 2007 and this was worse I saw live footage of it some live cell phone footage of it it's just unless you've experienced that live when when youve around the sky and the sky becomes an angry monster and everywhere around you is dangerous and the winds are 120 M an hour and just like it's so humbling I've never I I mean I was in a tornado in Atlanta in the early 70s and that was I mean I was probably too young to be like traumatized but I remember my feeling my parents trauma about this thing going over our house or whatever oh it's [ __ ] terrifying [ __ ] man terrify when it was over though when you were a kid it was like amazing like the whole world was one big pine sap jungle JY I mean for weeks we were just cuz you're just climbing in all the Fallen trees and my dad had some old Pontiac and that thing was like a u in the car some giant pine tree smash that weird so it was like a surrealist thing too as a kid you know like wow everything's been shaken up yeah it's it's also a lesson in the temporary nature of things you can look out and think this is my lawn this is where the cars parked this is how things are and then all of a sudden the sky's like not today [ __ ] let's throw a tree through your [ __ ] house what was that commercial the 7s that Mother Earth gets angry or whatever remember that was like shampoo or something and then but it was like oh there there was their catchphrase and it would be like you know oh yeah I remember that I don't it was like a I think it might be shampoo or something something stupid like that but it's true you know what I mean you have to deal I mean [ __ ] [ __ ] Katrina is still something like you know I love new or New Orleans is one of the most special cities in the world and it's still amazing it's still vibrant Dynamic
alive but I think the scars of that place are still still there I mean that was devastating brutal yeah unbelievably brutal I mean when when hurricanes hit places and devastate them it takes decades for them to recover especially without Aid and then sometimes it's like the people that are there they just don't want to do it anymore it's like when you realize you're in a place that this happens and there's other places where this doesn't happen you just get the [ __ ] out you know but there's a humbling of being attached to Nature in that way that I think like I grew up in Boston and there's something to the people that live up there that understand that every winter it's going to get so cold that you could die outside right that's a that's a reality that no one in La experiences cuz in La it's like earthquakes fire floods zombie apocalypse I get a little bit of that but you can kind of get away from that it's not going to overcome your entire can build a very high fence and have the state-of-the-art security system the fires are wild I I was evacuated three times living in La cuz we were in the valley yeah yeah three separate times the last time the two houses across the street from my house burnt to the ground it was wild it's just wild going through your old neighborhood and seeing just house after house like there's 40 houses in our neighborhood that were burnt to the ground we were in Marin County Northern California and out in a place called lanus and what this is four or five summers ago and we just you know kept [ __ ] in the car guitars you know there's one guitar I just can't live without some picture you know we just kept both our cars filled because you're out you know just ashes falling in the yard every day and scary well it's when it goes bad it goes real bad I was filming um Fear Factor once in um it was about uh hour and a half away from LA and um the fires got so bad we had to stop shooting and drive home and on the way home we were off the five freeway and on the way home the entire right side of the highway for an hour was in Flames like completely inflames like a Lord of the Rings movie like you're waiting for demons to ride horses over the top of the mountains it was but it's there's something about those those
kind of scenes that's like it puts you back in check let like hey man like maybe the things you're concentrating on aren't all that important for real I think it also touches us in a in a in in our animalistic DNA of like still being that person you know these people again it's Quest for Fire uh being these people who are really not just completely immersed in their environment as well for survival and sustenance and everything yeah that it's still like in the way I guess you know there's an instinctive thing in those moments that that has to be the exact same chemical reaction in every human being in any expanse of time that we've been like this yeah yeah when we were in Sicily uh we're at one I guess there was an eruption there recently there's one today or last night that's right I was seeing it on the news but when we were there there's we were um at this one Island that had a a constant eruption and at night time you could see the red at the top of the mountain just a little bit of red like bubbling up off the top of the mountain it was so [ __ ] cool I've never really got close to something like that like a you know have you ever done the tour in Hawaii we fly over in a helicopter no Hawaii is wild the big island is wild because it's growing every year because the lava is constantly flowing into the ocean you could literally watch the island expand in real time that's wild and you fly over it in helicopter so you're flying over you're looking down at the lava pouring out of the earth is this Italy Mount Etna look at that isn't that wild man that's incredible not to be confused with regular Italy yeah Sicilians think of themselves very differently look how beautiful that is man God that's so [ __ ] cool we visited Pompei too I did that as a kid and it's still one of the coolest but was like you know it's funny when I I look back you know they have like up the streets they'll have like the fountain at the end of the street or what where the water would come and you could see like where people lean their hands there's like an indention for the centuries of people leaning in to get a sip of water I just put my hand on that as a kid just like I could I almost
couldn't stop like thinking about that I do that all the time I do you know I do that with my kids when I'm like [ __ ] around like shake the hand I shook Chuck Barry's hand Bo diddley's hand yeah little I shook Little Richard's hand John le hooker you know they're all like laughing damn you met John Lee Hooker I did one time yeah wow that's a guy I'd love to meet it was his handshake was like amazing it was just like a he he touched my hand it was just like a like a cloud it was the softest like pillow I was like Wow and it was early you know you know early days we headlined the Memphis Blues Festival and he went on before us and I was like I just don't think that's right right right I know we're selling a lot of Records but that's it's crazy that's that's John Lee Hooker man never get out of these Blues Alive you know yeah boom boom boom yeah he was as cool as it gets that's amazing man have you ever met anybody that just like G you like I can't believe I'm talking to this person yeah yes but one time it was Dr J oh wow I was at some party in Vegas this is back in the mid 90s some VH1 thing or something and I was standing outside was at the Hard Rock and isn't the guy's name Steve wi who owns the thing the hard rocker wi yeah or something he owns a bunch of that stuff yeah and this was you know 30 years ago and I was there and he was like oh hey Chris you ever met Julie serving and I was I mean I was like I I loved Dr Jay so much growing up you know he and George gerin they were my heroes I played basketball and I was like and he he was just so cool you know and he was like Hey man nice to meet you and he's I was just I was like a little kid you I just couldn't believe that I met Dr J I shook Dr Jay's hand I got to throw him in there too wow and the other one would be um Robert Alman the director oh really I met Robert at a at a party I was at a party I like a Donatella Versace party in London and there were a bunch of famous people there but we they everyone sat down at a table and uh you know and different things and he was a I was just like oh there and he was with Richard E Grant they were making Gosford Park Richard E Grant also I was impressed to see and meet because of the film with nail and I is one of my favorite movies
of all time and there's withn you know like there he is I mean it's Richard but but there's Bob Alman who is you know Lord of my imagination and you know one of the best film my favorite film some of my favorite films of all time and so after when the dinner kind of like is less whatever people are up talking to other people I just go over to him I'm I'm like [ __ ] it I'm just going to say you know CU I I would be a little bit timid or shy in that situation and I would never think anyone I still to this day never imagine anyone knows who I am or what I do or whatever it's a good way to go through life actually you know I mean being totally honest and then you find out most people don't know who you are give a [ __ ] what you do but I go over and I I I introduce myself and I instantly recognize that he smells like weed like he's you know got a roach in his pocket or something and I'm like Bob are you holding he goes yeah you want to get stoned I was like yeah so he pulls out a joint and like we're sitting there and we're just talking about weed and you know he's like it's hard to get I get this from California you know and I was like wow man I you know and we smoked a joint and talked a little bit about music and Jazz and London and that was kind of it and he was like oh you should come by to the office and and I I never took him up on it like the production office just because I just I felt out of my depth you know what I mean um I should have but that that was like one of those things I will always remember it's interesting when you meet people that were Heroes to you and they're just they're human beings they're just normal and then you realize like especially in your case like you've become that to other people and then some kid will come up to you Chris Robinson yeah yeah and you're like yeah [ __ ] normal just a person but to them you're You're The Black Crows you're not a normal person you're a [ __ ] God you know it's it's weird you're an inaccessible like plateau of society that very few people ever experien I think music is a part of that as well you know like you said I mean and I you know there will always be I don't know there I think that there's a connection
in the in creation art C you know where does the idea come from I mean I think there's people who can manipulate that and make like I'm going to make a pop song and it's going to sound like this and not saying that it's not special not good but then I think there's other things that there's I'm not using it in a Christian way or whatever but there's a Divine spark of something that happens or [Music] whatever drops in your lap imagination wise The Muse you know the Muse is real The Muse is real I think it is real and the one thing that I I do believe about the Muse and I consider the Muse a female presence a a female most do Dynamic you know yeah and I feel that that the Muse at least my The Muse that I feel is a is a very jealous thing and I don't mean it in like any possessive way or SE anything weird but just like the your devotion is turned somewhere else MH The Muse could leave you that might be as superstitious as throwing salt you know over your shoulder whatever but I honestly believe that and it makes it difficult in life because life isn't just the Muse life isn't just the dream world that I live in and my imagination and the ideas have to come from somewhere it's not just singing and dancing and you have to have ideas what is this you know for me I I've always had to be involved with every aspect the album covers the stage design the [ __ ] lamin everything has to fit into a world that I can in feel like I want to inhabit you know something that's comfortable and interesting yeah and I think if you remove so it's not just the Musical part of the Muse it's the whole thing and I think if you're like oh you know what I'm gonna get into I'm not your if my reverence for that goes away and even in the slightest I feel that she will turn her back on me forever and they'll have nothing no more poetry no more music well you're probably right because let's assume the Muse is real The Muse The Muse would probably Reserve its greatest inspiration for its most devouted followers I would I think so yeah the most devout followers are the ones that
are going to be adherent to a ritual sit in front of the computer or the notepad or however you write and just like spend time I could never ever write lyrics on a screen I could never do it you write it on paper oh yeah yeah like completely does anybody write lyrics on screens I I think yeah I think a lot of people artists that you know of yeah yeah interesting I think a lot of hip-hop people write rhymes on their phones and yeah no I know I've seen I've know a lot of rock and roll people who were like hey you know well the phone thing's convenient I transfer all my notes to phones because it's and occasionally I'll write something on the phone the best thing about the phone honestly is like sometimes I have an idea maybe I've had a couple of cocktails too which is like you know memory is slippery when you're drinking with friends and you're having a good time but you have an idea I'll just like run into a bathroom stall and I'll hit the voice recorder and just say it I do that too I do I do the voice recorder as well for like if I'm plucking around a guitar and I get a little something that I like um or when Rich and I are writing songs too like if we're not but you know I've never had a home studio I've never wanted that I I never you want to go to a place I want to go to a place and I like part of my thing is I like um everyone's contribution you know what I mean right um I mean in The Black Crows rich and I write the songs so but the contributions can be musical or the produ or it could be anything right I mean the sometimes that you know it's the engineer and the producer in the band and the it's the vibe of those people being together and it's all of that circulating and percolating and making something everyone in on it you know what I mean like an old submarine movie or something like you're being depth charged and everyone has a job to do so you don't die right you know but I think that's important for for me you know like I love I mean Prince is one of my musically I mean there's an argument she made that maybe Prince was the baddest [ __ ] of all time definitely an argument I I mean cuz there's people who who can write there's people who can play there's people who can produce and
record and there's people who can dance and sing and perform that guy did it all at its ultimate level every musical instrument I mean yeah yeah he was insane it was so good and he was so different I remember when the first album came out it just that picture of him with his shirt off with like his hair you know and you hear the songs and you're like wow this guy's out there yeah different second record Prince is that the second yeah the first one's called for you and there's a picture of him kind of like it's he was is for you is that one with jack me off no that's later okay for you the first sigle is soft and wet oh which is before jack you off it has to be soft and it's I always laugh because I was you know by the time we're in the suburbs I live in Atlanta you know I'm obsessed with black radio at the time I'm only listening to V103 FM Atlanta my first concert is slave and cool in the Gang and sky at the Omni oh I'm going to see the time Vanity 6 SOS Lakeside Cameo you know day yeah that was one of the best concerts I've ever seen W um at that you know at that time in my life and only listening to that radio so the first print single comes out and it's soft and wet it's a great song and like funky and cool this little kind of disco breakdown in the middle little roller skating [ __ ] in the middle and I'm like I but I didn't really know what soft and wet was yet you know I was like is this like a washcloth that he left in the bed what is this yeah no he was a character man character met I never even I saw him I only saw him in concert once really and it was fantastic he was amazing he was doing a residency once at House of Blues in Vegas and but it was like really late at night and I had to do something in the morning and I passed on going and I was to this day I kill myself he would do concert and then go play another 8 hours or whatever yeah well he was going up really late it's like it was after midnight and I was like I got [ __ ] I have to do tomorrow I can't do this I can't be that tired and to this day I'm like [ __ ] you know what's funny the other person I met that I was that put me very much at ease but when I first said hello that I was totally freaked out was George Jones oh wow I met him at the at the Ryman
Auditorium after Johnny Cash passed away they had like me Jesus the 16th man I mean I was like was I got ushered into this dressing room you know I was a guest Chris kristoferson was there I was you know I was amazed to meet him and uh but I I'm like this [ __ ] George Jones old pums right there and I end up talking to him and he was really really sweet man I wanted to talk about Kansas City Chiefs he loved the Chiefs and B used to watch football back then and uh but I will always remember so they were he was taking over for Johnny Cash singing I think it's Johnny Cash maybe it was whan's part I I don't know the song that great the highway man I was a Highway Man col yeah and he was the dam builder on the Columbia River whatever but he he he kept looking at the lyrics he went I'm a damn Builder and Chris I was like man it's not like he goes I don't think my fans want me to I'm a damn Builder I mean he just kept thought it was so funny and I was like what amazing you know that I got to be in there but the other funny part of that is they were like Chris we take a picture with George and Chris and I'm like I'm getting my [ __ ] picture taken with George Jones and Chris kristopherson that's pretty wild this is the like coolest thing and I'm like I'm like in the middle you know I'm like man this is the coolest day ever and then the door opens my ex-wife is there too but then the door opens and Al Gore gets in the picture and ruins it like get out of the picture who how did he get in there I don't know he start talking about the climate yeah what yeah that was his initial climate thing but I'm like let's talk about your wife telling people what they can listen to whatever get out of here who are you self-righteous yeah people forgot about that she was the one who made well all it actually helped albums cuz when they put those warning labels wanted wanted a warning label one I never even got a warning label oh I remember when NWA had the warning label on them I mean all of that but I mean I'm like you guys are really seriously upset about the band Wasp I mean like you like yeah it's it's really ridiculous now in hindsight but I remember I I was in high
school at the time it was a big thing well they're telling you what to do again you know what I mean and a lot of it was racist you know what I mean oh yeah but it was like well I guess I was out of high school it was like when rap music was really starting to emerge and those lyrics were so shocking like early IC Tea Ice Cube all that stuff I mean it happened with rock and roll you know what I mean once Presley they wouldn't let him shake his hips on TV I mean it happen with Chuck Barry too you know I mean and there's that the initial phase of the the Cosmic [ __ ] blood and brimstone of rock and roll is ends pretty quickly when it starts and then you turn into like the paena pat Boon sort of style until the until the Beatles really come back around I mean there's right you know you have lots of cool records in between there but they're very they're they're small but it's interesting like that where things come in waves they come in waves of great artists for whatever reason yeah yeah yeah well I think I mean I mean at least if you look at like when I look at my age people we were just we were close enough to The Beatles and close enough to the sex pistols and close you know what I mean and the stones and Zeppelin that shit's long gone for a lot of younger people you know as time as time moves on yeah you know what I mean I have to ask you a question because before I forget did Rick Ruben tried to get you guys to change the name of your band Yes and did he really try to get you to change your name of the band the KKK the cop County crows I know that the king of uh yoga or whatever the [ __ ] he's selling whatever you know whatever his you know but under that beard that that guy and it's funny because good for Rick Rubin whatever he can do whatever he want I don't you know he he has very little but he did say that's a that's a true story so and by the way it was unimaginably offensive un [Music] imaginably why would you say that to us you know what I mean the conversation how does it happen because I think well we were we were called Mr Crow's garden and it's a book it's a like a children's book from like the 20s called Mr Crow's garden with an E so it's a name you know
he was Mr Crow and we were kind of you know into like psychedelic you know like it was our other that was the name of our band so when we made Shaker Money Maker a few years had gone by since we first were Mr Cruz garden and now we don't sound like that and and George tulus our producer and our anr guy in our Lifeline to the to the music business to the world uh who signed us and stuff he was like we need you know new got to change the name so there was a little bit of time where before we said we'll be The Black Crows and that's when Rick interjected that that's what he because we're Southern aren't all southern people fear-driven ignorant bigots aren't isn't every one of them but he didn't say it that way right so how did he no he said it like it'll be cool it'll be like controversial I'm like yeah Jesus Christ yeah so and I and how did he bring it up like I think this is a cool you're from Cobb Cobb County see well we're not from there but my when we we're from Atlanta by the way it's [ __ ] hard to get it to change Wikipedia that they're like we're me and Rich are born and married we're not we're from Atlanta Georgia you know third generation atlantans and I was like my grandfather was born in Atlanta in 1906 you know what I mean so it's hard to get that [ __ ] changed but he was like oh so you live in Cobb County Cobb well you should change it to Cobb County crows and put them all KS and and we were like it's it's that's so foul and disgusting it's also it's such a crazy idea to not have like context to it just to to to imagine that you're going to call ban the KKK like what the cob County crows actually sounds cool with c's you know was cob County CCC no problems great name nothing wrong with it you probably able to achieve the exact same success as the but I don't know because the poet in me and the the the armchair occultists would believe that that the only way we got we achieved what we achieved became what we became is because of the way the the some reason also leaving the e in it made that was the one thing that I said we would do so it's you know and by the way leaving the e in it was also great
and it's still great to this day when we someone requests something or want something from you and they misspell the name of the band we're like no [ __ ] that no you could have get a look a little bit bit search right there you know I mean that hard to add an KN I just can't imagine that conversation someone saying I can't imagine it either to be honest Rick is a friend of mine so just to you know for clarity I think I don't hate Rick Rubin or anything but he did say he's a fascinating guy I mean he's a very interesting thinker and I could imagine this idea intrusively embedding itself in his mind and then coming out of his mouth I just can't see be honest I you know I found a lot of uh when especially in this you know when our first record came out and you know we're on tour and we're working that record and I'm the one who has to get up in the morning and okay so we're playing we're in Cleveland now we're playing Cincinnati I have to go to 10 radio stations in Cleveland and Cincinnati and do the hand shaking and the talking and you know sell the sell the band I I meet all the like local promo people you know so they pick you up and stuff and most everyone was really super cool and they would be the people that could get you drugs and pay for drinks and stuff yeah you know and uh but wow I would be driving in the car with some of these guys and they'd be like must be tough being I'm like what you know like talking down to me like you don't know me just cuz I'm Southern and I'm a musician doesn't mean that you know talking down to me like I'm stupid or something or I'm like whoa whoa you don't know say like must be tough in what way like well like you're from Atlanta like do they have schools there you know what I mean like yeah like just kind of patronizing me or thinking that everyone's supposed to just happened to be here place and damn you know what I mean like we're not I'm from Atlanta Georgia yeah you know what I mean you don't know what books I read you don't know what I'm Into You don't know anything about me well this a always been a a deep history of prejudice about people in the what they would call the fly overstates the the arrogance of New York and Los Angeles
and you know you kind of dude these were the fly over State people talking to me oh that's funny even worse you know there's some people that like accept Chicago a little bit and some other cities Detroit a little bit but the the reality was it was about the coasts and everything in between was [ __ ] and they as if everyone in Rochester New York has like a PhD in French literature or something by the way that used to be kind of true when you would go on the road not true but you would notice a market difference in the awareness if you were talking about anything out of the ordinary the awareness of people's what what they knew in certain cities and certain places in the country versus what they knew in Los Angeles in New York there was a difference I mean yeah they're Hipp sophisticated yeah they weren't as sophisticated they didn't know as much but that changed with the internet that changed everyone has exact referen Cleveland Ohio you know you go wherever you go there's [ __ ] people that get it they get it do you remember when Bill Hicks used to just look at the audience and go moo oh yeah a lot of people still haven't caught up to Bill but oh he was great I mean his he used to call it his Flying Saucer tour cuz cuz he we' only go to places where flying saucers would land like weird little out of the way spot what's that record called rant and C minor something or it's something like a minor it's it a minor I don't remember I don't know what key it's in but that yeah I mean what I I still put that on and it's just un fantastic unbelievably fun changed comedy changed comedy made people wanted to become profound it was it changed comedy from just a bunch of stuff to laugh at to stuff that made you think about it after you're done laughing like I think George Carlin had that as well for sure yeah for sure in a different way but you know Hicks was more psychedelic inspired and it was there's a rock roll like thing in him that for lack of another description I think that gave him that kind of yeah it's the right it's the right way to describe it I think I I had a chance to see him live a bunch of times luckily like in a way he understood what you know what a great Underground band means to someone oh yeah yeah and what it
meant to him yeah I'm almost exactly yeah it was he was an artist he was an artist that was also a comedian you know he wasn't trying to conform to like whatever the stereotypical this is the guy that's going to get a sitcom Act is going to create yeah but there's not a lot of those is it worth is the sitcom worth it it doesn't exist anymore no but I mean for those Comics that like took that route that may you know what it was the golden carrot it was the thing that they held over all of our heads is that if you develop an act that could be converted into a sitcom all of a sudden you're Tim Allen and you have $50 million in the bank or you're Jerry Seinfeld or you're Brett Butler or you're Roseanne Bar there was like a few of those people that that yeah and there's a bunch of people that had managed some more obscure shows that people forgot about but they made a lot of money as well and it was this thing that if you could get on a sitcom and then all of a sudden you're the King of Queens you like my friend Kevin James that was his thing and that's how he got through it and and it's that that was the magic portal the magic portal to wealth and it's it also [ __ ] up a lot of people's acts because there was a lot of that now you're kind of stuck MH and censored yeah and now now the things that you want to say you can't say they self censor this is the saddest thing I know some of the great comics of like the 9s that are ruined because they self-censor now because they they sort of develop this act for television and then once they were on television they got all that TV money they wanted to keep it coming in so they never really branched out into more offensive subject matter or you know just just just more provocative more provocative that's you know what I mean I think irreverent in some ways you know what I mean and you feel free let everyone else will judge what that is and there yeah but it's just the problem is you're never going to make everybody happy and now way more people have an opinion that they can express like because of social media like everyone can express their opinion it's not as simple as you you hope to get the favor of a reviewer like someone who's cool who really like bands comes and see oh Bob's here this guy's [ __ ]
cool he's going to review our show and you like you kind of trusted Bob Bob was a good guy he really loved music he wasn't trying to tear things down those guys don't exist anymore yeah yeah you know now now what everyone's trying to do is get people on social media to like them and or not be mad at them so when they put out a special you see not be mad at them yeah you see these which as a the role of the artist sometimes is to make your audience mad at you to challenge them yes I mean not you know what I mean in a way like God how many things in life like that I didn't like at a time that I finally found my way through later and like oh of course thank you you know what I mean like you of course that's the natural of course progression it's the natural way and by the way not everything is supposed to be like you were saying uh and I guess that's where we are with this social media nothing can have that sort of Mystique around it anymore because it's it's it's it's forcing too much out of someone you're expecting too much from someone to either follow you and or understand get it or acceptance right yeah well it's just a foolish Pursuit the pursuit of other people who you don't even know their their love and attention and you'll morph and change and adapt whatever you're trying to produce in order to gain their favor that's a [ __ ] Folly that's such a a foolish way of interacting with human beings and whatever you create it's completely false I mean you're and you can see when you know personally you I think you're starting to see culturally where that Hollow and that falseness isn't helping oh it's definitely not helping it's it's a it's pushing us over the edge yeah it's not good you you need experiences from people where when they resonate these when when they put out these Works whether it's a book or music or anything this thing represents their soul and their perspective and their actual this is a thing they've created not a thing they're doing so they hope you like it not a thing they're doing so they hope you don't get mad not a thing they're doing where you highlight social issues so people think you're a virtuous person yeah yeah it's it's not well it's funny when you say that The Virtuous
part of it that that's funny too because you know mo especially like I don't know the lobby of your place is full of pictures of famous people who have been arrested for [ __ ] my shot and it's like I mean in a way in a counterculture way whether it's a poet a musician a jazz musician anyone you know Robert Mitchum what you know what you know Robert Mitchum's cooler than Kurt Douglas because he got busted for smoking pot okay so Robert Mitchum's cooler than you Kurt Douglas uh but the outsider in culture you know what I mean the loser and The Outsider are other themes that we do not celebrate as much and I'm not talking about some fabricated pop star who pouts and is like look how dark I am you know I mean that's not that's not what I'm talking about and that's always there again Showbiz and corporate things you know can manipulate these kind of archetypes yes and put them in the S of genre specific things that they want because they know that's that's not that's that's something formulating Rebel is so gross yeah yeah totally oh my God a formulated Rebel a disingenuous formulated Rebel yeah I mean you see them you do but I think they sort of make you really appreciate people that are true artists the people that are just it really is just their expression what they're trying to create that they hope people enjoy you know there's I mean it's funny because that's you know more than ever not just for the fact that uh I really went had to go through certain things to come full circle with my career and my brother and what The Black Crows mean in my life a lot of things you know I mean a lot of it starting with uh with my wife Camille and stuff but one of the things that that I that keeps me excited and one of the main things that I love is I know that we're and call us oldfashioned or call us naive or any anything you want it doesn't matter but that we were talking about that stupid flame idea this Purity but I know when we go out on tour and we write songs make records play concerts it's something that is raw still in there we're not in a monitors we don't there's
no computer on our stage you know what I mean we don't you see these [ __ ] bands cancel a show cuz their laptop didn't work I'm like well borrow your mom's why your mom really cancel shows cuz their laptop crashes it happens all the time that is [ __ ] hilarious and like there's bands that are up there like not even playing and like they press a button and they're up you know what I mean which is fine like whatever you want to do to get over I get it I'm again I was born the same year The Beatles made revolver I get it you know what I mean um but think about that in my daughter's lifetime The Beatles would be a [ __ ] hundred years old that record would be 1964 is 100 years ago that's crazy you know what I mean that's so crazy when you think about it that way CU When I was a kid it was just a decade or two ago well in the same decade between the Beatles if that 100 years was the end of the CI the Civil War in the Beatles you know what I mean like it's weird it's weird thing to look at time that way but well it really puts it into perspective because we look at everything through this lens of a finite lifespan of a hundred years if you're lucky you know we we look at everything like this is this is like a long time but it's not a long long time no it's a [ __ ] I did used to do this joke about that the constitution like the America America was founded in 1776 I go people live to be 100 that's three people ago yeah three people ago they started this like it's nothing it's so new everything's so new civilization itself oh my God it's so ancient is it really it's not I mean you're talking about the 3,000 years but in the big scope of things it's not that much time and they and I think historically and because of Science and things you know it's like that idea of well this was the Bronze AG it started on Thursday and then it went then but then they find a a a corpse in the ice in the Italian Alps and the guy has a bronze sword and he's 2,000 years before they thought they're like [ __ ] I got to re yeah there's a problem with that with archaeology got to get my advocus out and do the math yeah they're very reluctant to change the dates of things they've been publishing about for hours
but there's some things that they find every now and then that force them like there's a place called gockley Tey in turkey that's 11,000 years old and they found it in the90s I I believe it was a sheep herder found this like piece of stone in the ground he kicked at it moved it around then realized it was had a an edge to it and then they excavated it and it's just enormous Temple structure and they to this day they've only excavated like 5% of it there's a lot of controversy behind it because people are like why aren't they continuing to excavate like what are they doing like well now in in archaeology they they can do almost just as much with Sonic thing they can plan out what's going on and not disrupt the well that's how they know there's many many of these structures around that same area you know these things are 11,000 years old the last of our tour we were in merid of Spain playing in a Greek I mean in a Roman Theater that they had only done the excavations in the 50s because I guess at a certain point they just filled there's an Amphitheater next to it where they would have gladiatorial games and things and then a theater for theatrical and religious purposes but you're s you know like we're Pink Floyd gets Pompei we get Merida it's still cool you know but you're playing in this place was built during the reign of Augustus and and then the guy goes yeah well you know it was just filled with trash there we are it is wow that's incred filled with trash and then finally they dug it all out of there you know and so then this was down there this is W that was all covered yeah that's nuts that is so nuts it was fantastic beautiful place we went to Greece last year I got to see the uh Deli well we went to uh ulses or no how do you say it illusion well the ill usian Mysteries right ucini Mysteries where you descend into the cave I think well one point was a parking lot from what I read cuz I'm really now have they yeah yeah like where the original Mysteries took place no no you can still go there oh really yeah it's all carded off it's all it's it's protected you know you have to go through a gate to get in so there's guards there and stuff but we we went to there which is where
the ilian Mysteries were and I got really lucky to go with my friend Brian Mur rescue I was there with my family and Brian was there at the same time and Brian Mur rescu is a scholar who wrote um this uh incredible book about the use of psychedelics in ancient Greece that's now been confirmed through they take these old pieces of pottery and they found Urgot in the pottery of course they think all their wi was laced with psychedelics and these people were and they invented democracy I mean they're tripping balls and trying to give everybody an equal participation in society and figuring things out but you're around these structures and these are [ __ ] thousands of years old what is it the what was it the how's my mindon the drink the drink yeah yeah the cook yeah you know and they find this almost exact same structure in Peru as well really and down in the thing psychedelics mirrors in the corner where they could build fires and like sin lights around and stuff yeah that's awesome yeah and then but what happens to in Greece is they it's what is the law it's a Once in a-lifetime experience mhm but then the rich people get their hands on it and they start having their ceremonies private ceremonies more exclusive or elitist MH and that's kind of the the fall of that well the Romans put a stop to it they didn't people no they did these people are like reinking Society the same way they put a stop to it in the 1960s when the government made all psychedelic drugs schedule one when they were doing that so they can go after the anti-war protesters and the Black Panthers and they changed the counterculture movie you know cannabis is close to the same thing I mean you know when I first made the decision to be a daily cannabis user I Was An Outlaw now I'm a patient you know yeah isn't that interesting you're like we used to be like you know they people think they killed Bob Marley because of [ __ ] like that but now it's just like it's my medicine yeah well you you know it's now in how many states Jamie legal in how many didn't we say it was like legal in 19 and I think it's half the country has legal marijuana half the country and the other half the country wants it like what are we doing like how the [ __ ] is it 2024 with all that we know about all
the drugs and that this one 24 States three territories in Washington DC have legalized recreational cannabis use seven states have decriminalized its use commercial distribution is legal in all jurisdictions where possession is legal except for Virginia and Washington DC personal cultivation for recreation use is allowed in all jurisdictions except for Delaware Delaware Illinois New Jersey that's surprising and Washington State that's even more surprising first off let's just be honest no one's ever ever had fun in Delaware I'm just kidding and that where Biden's from I think it's it's just a dumb thing for us to be hanging on to the fact that they're still allowing grown adults to tell other grown adults what they can do with their Consciousness with all the data that we know about things that are very harmful that are not just legal but prescribed by doctors how about just everything is harmful that they allow in the world you know they don't give a [ __ ] about the sea being a plastic desert but don't smoke podt or I mean I find that's always been the case with authority isn't it you know what I mean like language you know what I mean what language you're I'm what you know what I mean What language can you use and how you use it sex and violence you know the fact talk about Rome and now we're going back to Rome and one of the reason was so successful is because they plated and we talk about Rome we're not talking about Italy we're talking about the city state of Rome that is the thing that conquered the room the city state and the surrounding areas were other things but they keep their masses happy with violence and free bread yep and you know in the same way that you keep people you control people by fear and ignorance keep them you know what I mean and it's exactly and Tik Tok just keep them mildly entertained all day long and distracted I find the idea of Tik Tok about as interesting as the game Tik Tok I don't oh tiktock toe Tik Tock toe yeah yeah I'm not doing that either no I'm not doing that either it is crazy when you go to the Coliseum and you realize the extent of the construction of it and how elaborate it was and how many different things they had going on where they would turn into like they have boats filled up with
water wild wild [ __ ] that animal and cages they could raise through the floor it's unimaginable and now you know the thing about going there too is you go I wonder if they ever thought this was going to end did they ever imagine no of course not no they certainly never imagined some idiot comedian in his family from California at the time we're going to go visit and go whoa cool this is where they had sword fights who I mean I I I imagine yeah it's it's I think some of the emperor is probably in an ego Centric way felt and it's true everyone knows you know a lot you know there might be some kid who never heard of Bird's record but he he might know who Nero was or Caligula or something or like the most dramatic sort of deranged parts of like where the where that period of Rome of the dictator starts to become it's just always shocking when you go to a place that was in complete control of like most of the world and then now it's nothing now it's gone now it's just ruins that people visit and it's just a city yeah what if Bill Gates had been like you know Guido you whatever it would be a different thing like what if they the what if the whole internet Came From Italy not America you know what I mean right it's it's just always weird to go to a place too when you're from America clao gatso whatever like he came up with this you know what I mean but they had a pretty good run in the Renaissance oh well they've had amazing runs artistically I mean that's all Al something I think about when I go to Italy like there is something about their life and their lifestyle that contributes to this incredible body of work when it comes to Art when it comes to music when it comes to sculptures and paintings like there's so many great artists that came from that part of the world have you have you ever seen a book called Naples 44 no do you know this book it's one of it's a friend of mine gave it to me a couple years ago it's a British Secret Service Officer comes to Naples in 1944 directly in the you know push of the Allies pushing the Germans and then fascist up the peninsula from Sicily and then Landing in Italy and it's an unbelievable book that this guy writes and it's it's
it's the sadness and the like tragedy of it as you and like anything else war is dramatic war is pain and violent the aftermath of war is something that people rarely are can wrap their heads around or interested in maybe because it's even you know you take away the drama of the battle and stuff it's Bleak but there's something about and this guy is not Italian English guy but he captures the spirit the humanity within like this transitional period of Naples but unimaginable stories depravity but also great exalted human things as well and then just some things that are incredible like you know Italians in their clothes and even the rich the aristocratic class in Naples to the to the person that could when they didn't have any Fabric and around this time after that they're they're walking around Naples in AR in beautifully tailored suits made of old army blankets that they would use black paint on to make them look Chic and yeah and I was like wow I would love to see that garment in a museum but just all manner of things and there's a uh there's another American guy was there at the same time and wrote another book about it which is also very interesting because this guy uh was one of the only books of of that time I I have it in my phone I could tell you but that talks about like the gay scene with the soldiers in Naples and stuff too like during this thing like just my just you know what I mean incredible stories incredible survival and heroics and art and culture that still survive and you know during like the darkest time you know it's a great great book unbelievable Unforgettable what's always interesting too when you're thinking about things thriving and existing against resistance you know in in a a dark time or a different time a time of much more difficulty you know and you get a chance to sort of feel what they felt when they were doing what they were doing I mean I think culturally historically I mean I think one of the great reasons Europeans have a much different attitude you're talking about you know Sicilians Italians SP everyone French Spanish Spanish people know how to have a good time sure you sure uh to have two events like the the World War I and World War II yeah we have very little um
it's hard for us to understand what those two events must have felt like through communities cities families I just read another amazing book called wine and War and it's a history of like the wine business during the Nazi occupation during World War II unimaginable wild [ __ ] going on and but the French people you know because Germans they knew as well like you know what's what's the blood of France is the wine what is the thing that holds it together and all these things but it's also a great commodity and also something of great elevated stat you know all this stuff with the way they dealt with the vichi I just you know and I'm like wow man these guys had a lot on their plate for five years and and leading up to the you know inevitable Nazi occupation well even in World War I I mean in World War I France lost 25% of its men and then in World War II they lost another 25% and in the book I mean and also just history I think that's one of people you know one of the reasons I think Germany I mean FR a lot of French people just didn't want to do it again you know what I mean right right right and and that and I think you you know and you know it's funny too like history repeats itself all the time we know this you know and there was a lot of infighting and political things within the French government at that time whether that's you know through the military or whatever that made them really a soft spot you know what I mean they had no no one was there was no cohesiveness of the way they would think about fighting or defending or whatever as well yeah but they went out in the end you know what I mean but this book about just how that affects all the different wine regions and the characters and stuff that has to be insane it's a great great book cuz it's so important over there wine is everything to them it's so important right and you know it's funny one of the like things in the book you're like okay so they're obviously you know confiscating everything for the Vach and doing all this stuff but they take this I I I might be wrong but I think it's the Pu F they take this this guy has like you know however many casks or whatever and they just take everything
and then the guy's upset he's been in his family for 400 years or whatever and he's sitting there with his head in his hands and they're like it's just wine he goes I I Know It's Just Wine but they destroyed 300y old casks the oak barrels that that's the secret to the r wine and they chopped them up and threw them on a fire or what you know what I mean and that that he was more upset about that than the wine itself at that time and he was like they're irreplaceable could never ever have that again it's been in my family for you know stuff like that really gets my head spinning of oh yeah forget it's not just the grape and the person that makes the wine it's that you know what I mean it's every every detail every aspect well they can also destroy the history of how it was made like people won't know how to do it correctly I mean that's the one of the darker aspects of occupation is when they destroy ancient stuff like the burning of the Library of Alexandria I mean could you imagine what that I mean we have no I mean unimaginably and by the way who burned it down Christians did they yeah it was Christian people who ran a muuk because of something that had happened uh some sort of crime that was committed or something and they it was the early Christians who burned that down those [ __ ] can you imagine if that had some sort of an explanation as to how they built the pyramids and was lost forever I mean it could be anything I mean millions and millions of but that was the most sophisticated society that has even today ever existed if you look at ancient Egypt in terms of their ability to construct things that baffle us to this day like the Great Pyramid baffles people to this day yeah there's hundreds of thousands of people debating how and why and what they were before and what they did and we really don't know I'm also interested in any where before science becomes one thing and like the occult is another thing and I just you know there's a certain time and I'm I'm really interested in John D the great occultist scientist English around the Elizabeth the first Reign Alchemist mhm but that his scientific ideas were equally had the they possessed the same gravity as his occult ideas and those
things were in the same world they weren't removed from each other it wasn't like one was silly and one was serious they were both taken at with the same level of you know sobriety or whatever you know and and that's what we were talking before I think there's a to be to remove the miss stick from everything or or to or not to be able to at least have a nod to it understand I mean what is ancient Egypt you know what I mean yes they were great civilization that could organ you know organize but at its base and what's holding it together is this mystical like weird thing you know like so to remove that completely I think is it's it's it's I don't know it seems so rigid you know it's a foolish rational there has to be ination of different things because you feel people's need for that to integrate those things well there has been in all great cultures right I mean in chichin have you ever been to the the ancient mind structures I've been to some but I didn't go to that one I went to two other ones and there places of worship and they all they all involve rituals there was a lot going and what they did was incredible and psychedelics and psychedelics yeah I mean as well I went through git so we got lucky there was a really good professor that uh was kind of explaining things to us and and he was talking about the different psychedelics that they believe that they would use and the way they had structured their all their buildings to align with constellations and the way they had sort of worshiped this integration of the sky into all of their architecture I mean it's an integration into a universal Consciousness I mean that's really what it is and it's funny like because you think well you're poisoning the water well you're poisoning where all it's all one living organism and the universe is one living organism right right I mean I don't want to get too far out man you know but of course what it it's all just like the ecosystem or whatever like the Frog eats the TPO and then the Bird eats the Frog and you know what I mean but it's just because you can't see it doesn't mean that it's not it scales up yeah and and out and within and in yeah forever yeah that's the reality of it so it's not just we're poisoning the water we're
poisoning ourselves yeah and of course you know again I I I would like to think the Earth is is a strong thing but and I don't get wrapped up in it but it's like I mean if you [ __ ] in if you live in your own [ __ ] you get sores you know yeah you know what I mean right hence the plague yeah yeah yeah there's uh the this is just when you think about the the universe as a whole it's just too big for our brains and we don't think we just think about our neighborhood or our lives or our personal problems or our bills or or our Tik Tok yeah nonsense and it's just thinking about nonsense you know what people think about that they can buy shoes that they don't have to touch to put their feet in I see these order them you see I see a commercial and the guy walks over they're like never touch your shoes again I'm like wow you know what I mean like finally oh SL shoes you can slide into yeah and I'm like amazing that everything is every everyone relax you never you never have to touch your shoe what if I want to touch my shoes yeah yeah yeah well some people don't understand they want comfort you know and then some people especially if you're doing something you don't enjoy you you think of struggle as like your job or work and then once you're not doing that you don't want any struggle you just want relaxation but isn't it funny also that our culture is dictating a certain Health thing take the sober challenge go to the gym Buy these gym clothes and walk around in them do all this but we're not going to take care of anything else you know what I mean like like you don't care about our mental health you don't really care about our health you know what I mean you don't do anything but it's like but culturally let's start putting this out there you know what I mean like why you know there's when I first went to New York City there were bars and bookstores and weird junk stores and all sorts of things that weren't corporate and now it's just gyms and Banks and I think I don't really go to the gym but I imagine you could get an ATM in the gym next door to the bank with the ATM you know I'm sure you could a lot of gyms I'm sure have ATMs I'm just saying you know like be healthy be you know what I mean but I'm like it is funny
like there's nothing that's saying to you be cerebral you know what I mean there there's not a lot out there you know you watch old dick cavitt shows there're smart people then they're not promoting a movie or a [ __ ] book or what they're just talking about IDE and philosophy and art and their culture and the society even uh what was his name uh Mike Douglas show there's Muhammad Ali and John linen and then some senator from Oklahoma or whatever you know like they're just talking you could do that back then now it's got to be you know the interview is pre-done it's about the mve they show the you that's only on television but that's also why podcasts are so popular so you can just kind of talk about anything you have a new yeah place that's also not under the scrutiny of having to play commercials every five seconds it's also that's a big factor but it's also not under anybody else's direction or advice that's what's really important yet how can you no no I know if I'm not doing it it's not going to happen cynical I'm just F cnic but I mean if I'm not doing it at my level of the game if I'm not doing it like you don't have to do it you just don't you don't have to all you have to do is make something that resonates with people and avoid anybody else's input I've had a lot of bad input come my way that I've ignored you know and especially in the early days when things started to kind of take off everybody has an opinion about how you can grow this thing to the next level which is those I want to talk about you know how to take the show to the next level you know you thought about having more celebrity and more this and that and that everyone has advice and but maybe just avoid these kind of topics or maybe this and that like as long as you don't have any input from other people then whether people like it or don't like it it at least it's you it's you and the people you're talking to and it's it's a real thing it's not a it's not a promotional thing it's not a buy this or yeah yeah exactly it just exists as which is just one dimension of things and you know it's nice to be clean cut and your teeth are white and you're smiling and you're selling [ __ ] you know what I mean by the way I got a pair of shoes you don't even have to touch them like what size are you I don't even
understand that but it's just I could walk around like an 18th century French Duke I would you know jacket that is a rock and roll [ __ ] jacket I've been looking at that thinking the moment I saw you can I wear that I don't know if I can pull that off your muscles are too big to get in well I mean I could get one tailored that get you but I'm just thinking I don't know if I could pull that off out in public people like what are you doing dude as a comedian like you can't be too cool unless you're Cat Williams knew you were cool as [ __ ] I'll tell you why Cat Williams is cool cuz he's still out there talking [ __ ] and eight-year-old beat him up that time remember that [ __ ] 11-year-old kid in the hood grab that [ __ ] in the headlock like he's like Let Go me he's like laying on the ground I was like man you got to have some you got to be cool to come back from that well he's just real you know just he is who he is and everybody loves him but that guy can wear anything but I can't I can't wear sparkly shoes look at him dude that's amazing look at him in his fur Co this [ __ ] giant rings he's he's an awesome dude too fun guy I only got to meet him the one time where I did a podcast with him and you know and it was because he did another podcast he said CH R will never have me on his podcast and I'm like I'll have you on anytime you want like we just never T I never met him before Oh really no and then finally met I thought comedians were like drummers they all know each other you know every drummer knows every drummer in every band I know everybody else I just never met him funny that's funny he was already so huge that when he would stop by in comedy clubs this is like after the Pimp Chronicles he would only like go by a you know we' go to a bunch of different clubs and if you weren't there when cat was there you missed him so he only came to The Comedy Store like a handful of times and The Comedy Store was that was my haunt and that's where I went with all my friends and all the you know the best comics in LA and New York all collaborated at the comedy store and I never got to see him there I mean I'd heard he was like smack somebody once like got a fight with somebody in the front porch one night I missed it you know but I just I'd always admired him I thought and I'd always talked nice about
him I didn't understand why he thought I wouldn't have him on the podcast but once I met him he's a joy he's a he's a funny smart dude who's a lot of what he's saying he knows what the [ __ ] he's doing he's like very tongue and cheek and very just having a good time with it but he's a genuine character like a genuine unique character I would love to meet him oh he's great you'd love him very smart dude too very if I see him at the airport I'll I'll say yo man you like this jacket he might be able to fit in that it'll be a little long might have to get the sleeves taken in but yeah where the [ __ ] do you get that jacket you know I my my wife got me this jacket pretty dope she's got good taste yeah she truly does yeah and then you're wearing about 10 pounds of silver yeah it's true they call me the silver stacker I don't know if you know that that's what the kids call it my daughter calls it that when she wears a bunch of bra Stacks they have stack my stack I'm just learning about these things I just got to be careful not to fall in the pool you know yeah well I just love when rock stars stay rock stars it's nothing bums me out more than seeing an old rock star in a golf shirt like dude yeah yeah come on man you got to hang in there I know you're 60 [ __ ] 60 I just saw the stones they're 80 they look they're aming I mean amazing I love I mean I'm wearing I have Stones I mean the stones are everything they're I love the rowing Stones I always have and I've we The Black Crows toured with them in 1995 we did all the Europe with them we did wimbley stadium with them I've you know I've got you know I've got to hang with Keith and Ronnie I've you know hung with Mick a little bit they're the [ __ ] Rolling Stones you know and so my wife and I and my 14-year-old daughter who lives on the East Coast she was with us for the few weeks this summer I'm like let's go you know what I mean I haven't seen them in a while and we went and I went without any I don't you know what I mean I went with nothing I wasn't going in with any expectation except to pay my you be there with everyone and see the Rolling Stones and and be there and they were great Mick Jagger's voice was incredible incredible at I mean his energy and stuff's incredible but his singing I mean they did wild
horses at night and I looked over and my 14-year-old was like crying and I was like I'm so proud of you you know she's feeling it so deep and yeah great midnight Rambler the this they're in a stadium with just like Ronnie and Keith just had like two speakers on stage and still playing a lot of bands don't play live anymore they have their digital [ __ ] through the PA there's not even any sound on stage wow it's all through their in ears and to me that's really weird uh whatever it takes for you to get the gig I'm hip to people do what I've seen cool shows like that but personally I like a lot of Sonic chaos want real yeah I want to feel it I saw them at Kota the Circuit of the America a couple years ago and you know it's just when you watch Mick Jagger walk out on the stage you almost can't believe he's really there like how was that really him I told my wife he's like a Sasquatch but every but everyone's seen it right it's like he and he's still out there I remember Bill Hicks had a bit in 1988 about the stones still doing it yeah in 1988 but this it was this crazy thing oh my God the stones have a new album like what this is 88 yeah and here we are in 2024 and they're still out there killing it and this show was amazing it was amazing amazing it's so good the best I mean the best I I consider myself a midnight Rambler of fishing Auto uh one of the best midnight Ramblers I've ever heard oh they so so good and people were you know what I mean just it was it was really I'm so happy that we went to Sofi Stadium you know what I mean like yeah I was just it was great you know cuz I I will admit sometimes and okay let's be honest I get access to backst you know we have it's cool but sometimes in big places like that something H I get a little bit like not because of that people would know who you were I just get weird around giant crowds I did when I was little I didn't like theme parks you know all sorts of weird stuff yeah but it was so cool I was so inspired you know what I mean I I like floated out of there so happy that guy has two trailers that he takes with him everywhere that are just a gym two huge trailers that are just like Mick Jagger works out every day and when he gets out on that stage and like he's [ __ ] 80 I he might be 81 now if I live to be 80 you could come find me
I'm going to be 300 lb living in Sicily and they're gonna you know those beautiful painted wagons they'll drag me around and it like but you won't even get to 300 lb eating their food no you don't that's what's crazy that's when you realize we're being poisoned when you eat in Europe for a week and you don't gain any weight you're like this is nut I had pizza I had pasta I didn't feel bad you come over here you feel like you get hit with a tranquilizer dart yeah like we're [ __ ] poisoning ourselves you won't get to 300 lb if you live in Sicily no unless you drink a lot of [ __ ] wine yeah even the wine is like it's better well it's just there's something about like just the air there just something about the the the atmosphere I'm not you know I'm not I have no I'm Eng we're we are pretty much in our DNA English and then like a big scoop of polish jew on top you know not even a big scoop at this point both my grandfather and my dad were shika loving Jewish men who whittel me and my brother down to about 20% and uh but when I'm I don't know there's there's something about there that is so just I don't know I I I I love to go to Paris but Paris isn't relaxing you know I'm out all we're doing stuff I love London I love Madrid I love lots of places I love Rome I love lots of places in the world but something about Sicily man I'm like just I'm I'm in what you know what I mean like this is like you said it's something about the lifestyle just so laidback and it's maybe I like it because it's a bit of anacronismo you feel like you've stepped out of the same Pace Andor Rhythm of the modern future world that we see every day yes it's a different vibration it's a different I mean and then everybody's doing it that way too so you sort of settle into their way of life sort of settle into their pace of things it's Rel you need a shot of adrenaline just hit poo because that place is wild oh I'm sure it was so good is it still run by the mob I they say no oh then yes they say that it doesn't exist anymore but but if I remember uh there was a big Scandal during lockdown in some small town in Sicily or maybe it was palmo I I'd have to research it that they the police were upset because some old mob guy had died
and they had a giant parade no one like was in yeah everyone was just out there old people you know everyone was out there doing their thing for Don whoever it was who is not with us anymore and I was like okay they didn't want that St you know what I mean yeah well th those people ran that place for a long ass time you know they're an integrated part of their society like the Yakuza is in Japan yeah it's just for a very long time for very you know the way the way it works have you ever seen a funny movie called Johnny sakino no with h Roberto bolini the Italian comedic actor no it's you would love it yeah so fun it's from the 80s and he sakino is a toothpick yeah so he's Johnny toothpick and it's that F what's the story of it's a famous story that you know he he's a school teacher in Naples or whatever but he look or in Italy and he and this girl who's wife or lover whatever some big gangster in in Sicily she see he he's trying to he's in hiding because he did like rat it on someone I don't know something she sees him and he looks just like him so she brings him to Sicily and he's like walking around people like yo what are you doing you know what I mean like so it's that kind of thing but it's unbelievably funny movie it's insane do you remember there was an Italian singer who created a very popular song where it was fake American lyrics god of from trying to remember his name but it was a song where he's singing fake words that sound like he's seeing like the Rolling Stones or or or or you know the Beatles or something like that but he's doing it with fake words it's like what he thinks American songs sound like but it's gibberish this is the guy what is his name Adriano sentano give me some give me some volume on this WOW listen but it's really cool amaz I love that listen song Too the song is very cool there's a couple of different versions of it this is like a live performance of it but there's there's another one that's like a music video of it and it's like really [ __ ] interesting what that guy did that's cool that's really good yeah he just made up fake American music it's [ __ ] great I'm going to do that next week why not [ __ ] it I mean you know that's there's there's a lot of songs that have like words that aren't really words you know they're just kind
of like sounds you know Dan arbach talks about that from The Black Keys like a lot of times when he sings things he's just like making up sounds making up words mck Jagger did it yeah I'm sure yeah or he took words and mashed them into something that was more especially live in the 70s he has a lot of vowel going on and you're like I don't know what he so good but man he's not lost any of the energy if you watch like his old performances and now it's just an older guy doing the same vibe mean they it's also very cool because they play everything in the same key you know you'll find a lot of older and I get it man this you know singing is singing is a physical thing I mean what my one thing it's kind of like the Muse like if I stopped singing it would go away M you know I mean if I didn't s you know if I I'm going to take two years off I I would never it would never get back to where where my voice is why is that it's just the nature of the physicality I think you know what I mean especially as it's 35 years 40 Years of singing so it's like you're working muscles in your neck your vocal cords are just muscles yeah wow and you're working them on a regular basis and they get out of shape yeah and not and then like that and then it just won't come back or it won't come back to where I'd like to like my I really like where my voice is you know I say we sing the songs in the same Keys you know it was funny we played The Forum we were the first concert in the Forum La Forum after Co and it was a bit I had never played there it was a big night it was you know friends and family it was great but George dulus who's produced our first records first two records and signed the band after the show he was like if I had known you'd still be singing of 30 whatever years later we would we could have put the keys down for you you know I was like I was like that wasn't how it worked back then cuz you know in rock and roll you get you know you have the verse and then you get to the chorus and you want to get it exciting so yeah you want to knock it up a notch you know but we don't change them either and I I like that I mean my voice has changed obviously but but it's still the same key do you do you wonder
how long you're going to do it do you ever think about stopping I don't I do sometimes I mean it you know the pandemic was funny for me because at first not Financial three things or whatever it was just like you know since I was a teenager pretty much this is what we do we tour and we do concerts and we make music blah blah blah and I was like maybe I'm G to go a little kooky not doing it and then I really I mean I had horrible days like everyone else and you know Despair and fear and stuff of the unknown but a lot of those days like I I was like I have a lot of interests you know what I mean I have a lot of other I'd like to write a book I'd maybe like to write more than one book you know um find my voice outside of the musician in another artistic way or whatever and just ex loving my wife and living life yeah and you know moving to Sicily but a lot of those things you you know I'm I'm I'm not ready to do that now but also I look ahead and I'm like do if do I want to be on stage when I'm 75 do I want to there's a difference if I have to I don't know I guess I'll call it when I if I'm lucky enough to get to 75 you know I mean I get through the end of the week you know what I mean but I do I love it but but it but but for the that event gave me the perspective of there's other I don't want you know what I mean I would hate to be I've always hated the idea that this is all I could do MH that might sound weird but no no it's a great because I'm born to do it I that kind of scenario like you know like this is my wife's like when I watch you friends when I see you in your element this is obviously what you're supposed to do yeah but but I think I have am I don't know if ambition is the right word but I definitely have interest in things that have nothing to do with this yeah you know well that's part of being a human right you don't want to be isolated to one specific interest there's so many fascinating things and that isolation that's a thing too and I I'm really happy with would would could we have a level of success that's greater or whatever yeah maybe I don't know but the one thing I like about my life is I I'm I'm not the kind of I'm not
so well known that I still can't do my own grocery shopping I I love to cook I like to go to the market I like to pick out my [ __ ] you know or that you can't get you know what I mean that we we have access to the whole world you know and I don't have to worry about anyone giving a [ __ ] you know what I mean yeah about or the people that do like it that come up to me wherever I am in the world they're usually real fans they're not celebrity people right so they're like man I saw you at the when you played this song you know that's the other thing about music it's like rock music you know you can be you can do a lot of stuff but you know one thing about the songs we've written and I meet people and people play the songs we've written at weddings and at funerals you know what I mean not just parties and not just things but like you know my brother I wrote you know when we wrote She talks to angels I get I I'm I always have time and I'm always uh humbled by people's experiences with that song and addiction and things in their lives whether it's them family member the loss uh or people that have overcome things you know what I mean and that we you know just wrote that song one day when we were kids and that means so much to people there's a lot of songs like that in our repertoire that people come up I mean really funny things sometimes like people will pick some song I'm like that was your wedding song I'm like okay that's weird or more obscure even you know like some weird like this song called non-fiction like we walk down the aisle to non I'm like nonfiction really it's kind of a dark song I mean well that's it you're you're giving out you know with music it's like it's an art form that changes people's feeling it's when you hear a great song it literally gives you energy completely it it's a drug it really is it's like an an audio exactly the same I mean we I mean it's maddening to be with me because it's this is the only time during this day that I don't have music on but I you know what I mean but I listened to French music from the 20s and I listened to like Peruvian kumas from the 70s or Avan card electronic composers whatever you know or blues and
rock and roll and Jazz and fr and R&B and whatever but a lot yeah you know like well that means you're doing the right right thing right like you really love it I also need it like you just said not only just for energy but like for some Soulful connection as well and you know when especially with you know when I was younger uh we all suffer from depression and some people have a more acute relationships with that um but you know if there's a certain Melancholy that comes over me there's only some artist that can I can sail across that deep water with you know what I mean to to kind of assure me that I'm not the only we're not the only ones that feel this way we're not the only ones that um you know life is life is that that is what it is you know what I mean like not no matter how rich you are no matter how successful you are no matter who you are you still have to deal with the ups and downs of it and I think adversity is the thing that really makes us who we are you know it's one thing as like being a father I'm like I'm not afraid of the adversity my kids face as a matter of fact that's what I really want to get to is how because what makes us who we are is how we deal with adversity MH and if you don't deal with any adversity it's not good and if you push it under the table or this or that and avoid it yeah then then where are you you know what I mean where's the and and the great and it's these things are cliches but the greatest lessons are the hardest ones you know what I mean those are the ones that stick to you the most yes and those are the ones that make you grow I have a great friend who's in a fantastic band they just opened for us we've been friends they called his name is Jim Jones this band's called the Jim Jones Allstar he was in a band called The hypnotics and uh and we've known each other for 30 years and he went through really deep heroin Addiction in the 90s and uh and it's funny to talk to him and I love him you know he's but he's like yeah man it was something it was a lesson you know what I mean I'm like that's a [ __ ] tough lesson and I'm happy you're still here to talk about it but I love his attitude you know what I mean I love that spirit in people you
know what I mean that it didn't you know I learned from this and I've moved on from this and I don't have any regrets I don't have any resentment towards this or anger towards about it it's no one's doing but my own that responsibility take responsibility for stuff you know is a big and that's that's important and I think we see a lot of that gone away you know what I mean with people um and every story is different you know what I mean and every that not everything is the same and and the the what is real and what isn't real between there that's for everyone to figure out out for people you know but but the fact that that can be captured in a song and like you said sort of carry you through these bad moments we realize like other people are experiencing grief hardship depression Darkness terrible thoughts of loss and that's the reason why those songs are so popular it's not like people want to suffer like no there's like something they're resonating with and anger is a part of that too you know what I mean like and it's funny like with the newer music I'm like you guys like the world looks pretty shitty aren't you guys pissed a little bit or you just like no I'm just going to get some likes and my pants fit right and my hair is good I'm like okay I get pop music is light sometimes but I would like for the young people to you know I'd like to see in the art a little more anger or well I'd like to see more rock yeah you know it's like when I'm looking at music coming up today there's a great absence of strong new rock bands that that seem like rock bands from the past guitar bass yes yes I mean God damn it people still love that music what the [ __ ] is going on yeah you go see ACDC there at a [ __ ] Stadium you go see Metallica there at a stadium yes so people are going so what the [ __ ] happened where where is everybody I mean I think it's definitely there it's just it's it's again the I think people for some reason think the music business is supposed to be the gauge or the they're just like any other [ __ ] salesman they always have been just because one salesman had cool taste and one didn't don't kid yourself right they're not artists they're salesmen and there's cool people and not cool people but
they're not you know what I mean and I think like now we live in a time and you see it a lot you see people making comments about it in in our industry about how you're just following whereas before yeah you had things that were popular but someone you know someone said [ __ ] sign the Stooges yeah yeah you know Danny fields did that but he had great taste but he was still a a record company guy the business side of it someone you know what I mean someone said sign Susie in the Banshees or whatever someone said dude I mean Bob Dylan you didn't know when they made first Bob Dylan record that he'd be 83 years old Bob Dylan to you know what I mean yeah yeah and a lot of people said don't sign him he's not marketable he's not commercial and you know that's my thing where I'm I'm looking for still that Maverick Spirit or somebody who does have the wherewithal Andor Vision to see that maybe something is a little bit outside the box still could have not just it would have importance and it can be popular as well well of course and it always has been that way the the idea that that can't that everyone has a short attention span now and we're interested in frivolous things no that's not true that's just still junk food it's still junk food right and there's still people that like a nice meal I'm glad you're out there dude thanks man thanks for doing this I really appreciate a lotun really enjoyed talking to you we got to talk about a lot of weird stuff yes sir thank you very much cheers bye everybody [Music] [Applause] [Music]