Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NLoTuRR3hE
Epste and Trump were close. Sorry, Donald. Just a fact. And when Elon Musk tweets Trump's on the list and a few days later, there is no list. It begs questions. So, they dangled this in order to get votes. And they lie to people. And we're only 6 months in. And the vandalization that he's done pushing the boundaries on the rule of law. This is darkness. >> Really? Because I hear this every election cycle. >> No, it's a dangerous game. And America is struggling and I really worry about our democracy. But Trump is likely to lose power unless they can rig the game. >> Governor Gavin Newsome. Are you going to try and become the next president of the United States? >> Governor of California. >> Gavin Newsome. >> Gavin Newsome. >> Who is the real Gavin Newsome? >> I think most people see me as sort of, you know, slick guy. Grew up with a trust fund, but I didn't come from any wealth. Like my mom was a single mom. She was working two, three jobs. She ran out of her own bedroom. Sacrificed everything for two kids. And I was going nowhere academically, but she never gave up on me. >> And as your sort of political career starts to accelerate, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. >> Yeah. And she was in so much pain, suffering. She's going to do an assisted suicide. And uh I was holding her hand. She's and her last breath. But look, everything that finds the best of me, grit, hard work is reflected in her. And that led to me sitting here with you as governor of California in politics. >> He's an incompetent governor. Look at the job he's doing. He's a stone cold liar. >> There's always conflict between you and Trump. >> I think he enjoys sparring with me. I know he thrives on it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it. Every time I have a conversation, it's unbelievably cordial. He says, "You need anything, call me." Including the night before he quote unquote federalized the National Guard, but then calls me new. >> He wants to take me out. >> Do you think he's going to try and stay in power? So, I don't think I'm
exaggerating, but when people close to Donald Trump send the governor of California, "Hey, they're not around." I see messages all the time in the comment section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do double check if you've subscribed and uh thank you so much because in a strange way you are you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you Governor Gavin Newsome. Can you quite believe your life? You're you're running one of the most consequential states in America, arguably the most consequential state in America, but also I I read that it's the fourth highest GDP in the world now. >> In the world, it's always in the headlines. There's always conflict between you and Trump. I just wanted to start with this question, like, can you believe your life? >> If you talk to my 10-year-old self, this is impossible. Could have even dreamt it. I don't know if it was a dream or a nightmare at 10. >> I mean, I'm not sure this is what I wanted at 10. I'm not sure I wanted this at 20 or even 30. And I know you're going to continue to shoulder roll what I'm going to say, but many of the book makers, the odds have you as being the next president of the United States in 2028. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to throw that. I know you're going to shoulder roll it and tell me California. >> Well, that's surreal. I mean, that's ridic I mean, that's something that even in those higher moments, not low moments, where I may have had a little bit more confidence, million years would never have imagined that I would be at this moment. And yeah, that's that creates a lot of humility of a lot of grace around that. I mean, the idea that that's you're even in the conversation. I know that sounds wrote and cliched,
little humble brag. >> The fact that I'm in the conversation >> is extraordinary. Is it a reality? I don't know. I mean, that's that's fate will determine. >> I I I totally understand that. But I but I want to just get clear on one thing which is you would be honored to play the role as president of the United States if and when that opportunity called or presented itself. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I don't know about playing the role, but if it if it, you know, if the moment meets you and you meet the moment, if you can express with congruency the why and you can do it without the pretense and the you could do it with authenticity and you truly believe that you add value >> against others that may be lined up. >> Um, yeah, but you know, I won't go through the motion. I don't need to be something to do something. Yeah. For me, it's it's it's a it's you've got to I mean, I got to feel it. It's got to be in my my core, my soul. It's got to be a burning need and desire to be accountable and to to reflect the moment and reflect the aspirations and the dreams of of millions and millions of people and and to have enough confidence uh that you feel you can deliver in that respect. >> Do you think you could deliver in that respect? >> I I you know, increasingly, which is strange. I wouldn't been I don't know that I could have said that a few years ago. I mean that I feel like things for me have radically changed and we can get into why. I mean I've gone through they're they're working on the seventh recall against me right now. I went through a recall process. I've been on the receiving end of a national effort to you know try to do everything to undermine what I'm doing and and going up against Trump and Trumpism and and the surround sound and these propaganda networks 247. I'm I'm more resolved now. I mean in intense way ways I I'm I'm discovering myself in this process. I'm in the other side of where I ever expected to be even a year ago. And uh I feel deeply accountable and deeply responsible and deeply motivated. I don't know where that takes me, but I know I have a responsibility over the next 18 months and I'm going to run the 110 yard dash. I'm not going to I'm not
going to run the 90 yard dash on the way out of here. And so that's that's what I know. I got a sell by date and I'm going to put everything on the line. Let's get into it then in terms of your early context in your childhood because I think >> you have to understand that to understand the person and the complexities of the person that I'm sat in front of today. So can you give me the specifics of your earliest context? >> You know it's it you know I think shaped like so many people watching I mean how many of us over half of us have similar experiences of uh you know 19-year-old who's pregnant uh with her firstborn me and a few years later she's on her own with two kids. Uh she came from no wealth, no real privilege. Her father committed suicide, was a prisoner of war coming out of uh World War II. She struggled with her own identity, her own confidence. Uh she struggled raising two kids. Uh my father who left us but not in disgrace. Uh who was an extraordinary figure but an elusive figure growing up and sort of marked so much of my early childhood as sort of longing trying to connect. But the the anchor, the rock was this rockstar single mom and and everything that defines the best of me and the worst of me. This notion of grit, hard work, you got to manifest. Nothing's going to be handed to you. Um is reflected in her. At the same time, a lot of the anxiety and and fear uh sense of, you know, I mean, sometimes loneliness. I mean, she was a very lonely person. Yeah. Tessa passed away almost two decades ago. And uh I'm I'm now older than she was when she passed away. And you know, I just I never fully appreciated her to the degree I do now as a father, uh, as a mother struggling with not only herself, just trying to be a good mother, trying to have a career, a life, but also struggling to support her kids and support a kid, in this case me, who was struggling in every way, particularly with pretty severe learning disabilities, with self-esteem, and um, and never fully appreciated ated her sacrifice. >> Give me the color on the learning disabilities because someone looks at you, someone so accomplished in both business and in politics. And you say that you had learning difficulties as a child.
>> I mean, I was I was a guy in the back of of the class. I was a guy with the head down. I was a guy, you know, soaking wet, sweating. I was a guy shaking underneath, not physically shaking. Um, desperate not to be called on in the class. I'm someone who still can't read a speech. You're in the wrong business. I think politics. You can't read a speech. Could do a teleprompter, but you'll never see me. You haven't seen me go up and down looking at a speech. I can't still struggle to read. If I read, I have to underline everything. I have to uh organize uh everything through not only underlining, highlighting, then I go back and reread what I underlined in order to understand it. Once I understand it, boy, I understand it. I mean, then it's becomes, you know, part of who I am, which is the other side of dyslexia. But I, you know, was I was a guy that was was going nowhere academically. You know, I was just I was that kid. And I had a sister that was the exact opposite. You know, well, I'm getting my 960 in American SAT. She was getting 1380. It was easy for her. Uh, everything was easy for her. And so that contrast and that anxiety that came from that contrast and the struggle that my mom had of trying to sort of work with me work and you know that was uh that marked so much of you know my memories and decades of my life >> and at that early age sub 10 what did you think of yourself what was your self-perception self-image >> the thing that you know I don't think I've shared uh is a thing that is most indelible in my life when my mother in struggling with me and I'll never forget it and I recall if I responded to her at the time, but it's marked half a century of my life when she said because I couldn't I was just I was giving up. I couldn't read this chapter, whatever it was. She said it's okay to be average like and I think about that all the time, man. I mean, and and I forgive her. I thank for that. I think cuz she was struggling with me. But that's a hell of a thing to say to a kid. And I think she was just saying it's okay. You don't have to be your sister. You're not your dad. You know, you never be that person. I loved her deeply and I'm here because of her. But that shapes a lot of the early that that person that you know and
it's shaped who I've become because I've done everything in my power to to overcompensate for the struggle >> and for that mindset where I could have easily believed that and I could have easily become that. >> In terms of money in the home, what I sometimes think of when I think about my own childhood, money was almost this other person. You know, it's funny. We talk about attachment styles and we say some people have like this avoidant attachment style, this anxious attachment style, this secure attachment style. And I think of money in the same way. It it it's in homes. It's a person. Sometimes it's distant and never there. Sometimes it's causing the argument. >> What was money in your household? Like what was the relationship that you'd formed with it? Well, I had interesting experience with with money because we didn't come from any wealth. But my father uh his relationships were attached to extraordinary wealth, abundance of wealth. His closest friends in the world were some of the richest families in the world. Um and he while he didn't have himself tremendous amount of wealth, he led a very wealthy lifestyle. Meanwhile, my mom and I and my sister were there uh doing, you know, our Swanson's um you know, frozen food. We're doing our craft macaroni and cheese. We're doing our you know, but money was always the source of the stress cuz he didn't have much to give her. She didn't have much period. So, she was working two, three jobs. And when I say two, three jobs, when I say that, I mean literally two, three jobs. We had guests always living at the house. I didn't understand what guests living at the house mean. She moved out of her own bedroom to rent out the bedroom. Um, if you wanted something, had a paper route, worked for Jeff Hicks Construction. If you want a basketball hoop, you're gonna have to work for it. There was nothing handed, nothing given. And so, she was grinding. She's working in part-time waitress. I got in the restaurant business. I was a bus boy. There's some moments that changed my life there that I'll never ever ever ever forget. And so money was a source of stress but also some evil in the context of too much and seen the abundance with people I knew with trust funds with the relationship to money
where they lost their motivation. They lost their purpose, their meaning, their mission. And so when I started getting a business, it was never about making money. It was about making a difference. It was about building something, a brand. It was about adding some value. And that pursuit I think created a mindset where the businesses actually really thrived because it wasn't about the money. It was about something more important. It was bigger than that. And and so my relationship to money in that respect really became a gift, a guide in terms of my entrepreneurial uh pursuits. Dyslexia certainly was the greatest gift in relationship to the entrepreneurial suits. And that led to this led to me sitting here with you as governor of California in politics. >> And when did you find out you had dyslexia? cuz I I read that your mother >> she didn't she didn't tell me and I I wonder I I think about this cuz I've got a couple kids that are struggling and and uh we made the mistake with one of them to tell him yeah I think you got and now he uses as a crutch and she never wanted it as a crutch. She never told me. She said I found out about I was home early one day came back from school and I I don't know why I ended up in her room and I'm looking she's got a little desk and there's a file open and I'm like flicking through files and then I saw the word dyslexia. I'm like, "The hell is this?" And I remember she got home. I said, "Mom, what is this?" And she goes, "Put that away." I'm like, "What? What is it?" She goes, "No." I And we had this conversation. She said, "I didn't really want to talk to you about it. You've been struggling with I said, I know I can't read and you know, stupid, mom." I said, "No, you're not stupid. We're working through all that." And she just didn't want to give create the stigma. She didn't want me to use it as a crutch, as an excuse, I think. And I'm angry back to the sort of you know dialect in my own brain about good bad um I appreciated that because it was an excuse not a victim decisions not conditions term our fate and future this notion u that we can shape things that I don't that I wasn't stigmatized in that respect so I can make excuses around it I had to work around it I had to work through it and I think that was the path she she chose and and I'm many ways
grateful that she Were you bullied by other children? >> Yeah, we had uh Baltimore Street. I told the president this too. Speaking of Trump, uh he he we were talking a few weeks ago and he goes, "Hey, this new scum thing, you know, because he calls me new scum, Gavin Newskum." He goes, "Pretty original, right?" I said, "It's not, Mr. President, it's not particularly original." And he goes, "What do you mean? What do you mean?" I said, "Well, there were there was the bully on Baltimore Street uh in Cordom Madera, California used to call me new scum." He goes, "Ah, hey, well, you know what?" Yeah. I mean, he was 7, eight or nine. You're 79, Mr. President. I told him that, too. And he moved immediately off on another topic. Uh, yeah. So, we, you know, I was I was the bold cut guy. The hair, you know, the Dutch boy look, you know, you remember I don't know if you remember the old Dutch boy stuff. U sort of American iconic American brand. Uh, and and uh and it was easy to see why I might have been bullied. >> I've got a picture here. If you look >> Oh, look at me back at uh Isn't that great? So, you get the haircut. You get the vibe. This is uh this is my father trying to insert. So, Irish Catholic family. My dad went to Catholic schools and so by definition, I went to Catholic school. My mother who loved the sailor outfits, kneeh high black socks. Uh yeah, you're likely to get bullied going on the bus. >> It's not the best cut, but we've all we've all had we've all been on a journey with our haircuts. >> It's good when I hear your story and the context you grew up in with with your mother, with the bullying, with the challenges at school, um with the dad that's away and I know the stats around young boys that grow up in particular that don't have a father figure in at home. That for me that's a perfect recipe for like small tea, maybe big tea trauma in some capacity. Later in your life, you talked about having challenges with alcohol. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. >> And I wondered if that if that that picture that's part of the same picture, which is putting the mask on, various forms of escapism.
>> Yeah. No, 100%. Well, look, I mean, my my my grandfather that took his life was was an alcoholic. >> Um, and my mother struggled a little bit and it was more self-medicating for me. I started discovering that as well. Of course, look, I got in the wine business. Yeah. >> So I need attracted to the business side of it. Opened a wine store right out of college. Opened a number of restaurants. Had seven or eight restaurants. Have four wineries as I speak today. So wine became ubiquous in my life. Is also my connection back to my dad which is a whole another journey. >> And you started that business in 1992 which was the year I was born. And as I as I >> rubbing it in as I sit here 32 years later the business still exists. You've placed it into a trust. >> It still exists. and uh grew about there were 22 or four businesses at peak about a thousand employees at peak came from that one business I was the only full-time employee for almost two years yeah I mean I'll tell you just the greatest training for politics and life just opening your own business small business and uh those were some special days and went from that to a restaurant up the block a few years later a hotel a winery now four wineries uh we had five or six restaurant uh hotels and nine restaurants at peak and businesses are still around. >> I was reading that you had this sort of scheme where you gave employees $500 for a magical moment award. >> Well, it was a failure award. >> A failure award. >> And then it became my sister took over because I I got into politics and uh she said, "I don't like this failure framework." I said, "Well, it's the I love failure. I'm good at it. Dyslexics are the best at it. I mean, there's nothing linear about our lives. It's fail forward fast, miss 100% of shots you don't take." So you were giving employees $500 to if they failed. >> Yeah, I had a great just a a very brief example. I So I had a little hotel up in [ __ ] Valley, Lake Tahoe area and a lot of mosquitoes during the summer months. It's an old motel built for the Winter Olympics, the 1960 Winter Olympics, built in 1959 for the delegates was supposed to be torn down. It sort of
patched together and we we we held it together, but it had no air conditioning. So you'd keep the doors open, you keep the windows open, but in the summer the mosquitoes came in, drove the guests crazy. So, we had this night clerk, you know, those crazy night clerks come in and he was getting complaints all the time about the mosquitoes. And he on his own decided one day to go before he went to work, get in 11:00 at night, and he bought a bunch of catfish at the store because there's a bunch of ponds around the business. And he figured that's where all the mosquitoes are starting. So, the catfish will eat the larvae of the of of of the mosquitoes, and he'd solve the problem. So, he just on his own decided to buy a bunch of catfish, dumped them in the ponds all around the hotel. Well, about 4 in the morning, this engineer calls me gruff guy, says the raccoons had a feeding frenzy and ran through the hotel because the doors were open with bunch of, you know, flying fish in their their mouths and fish everywhere. And Ludo said, "You got to fire that son of a [ __ ] This goddamn idiot." And I started laughing. Went up there the next morning, met with them, and I said, "This is a magical. You tried to solve a goddamn problem." And we created the failure award and I gave the biggest screw-up every single month a bonus. And at the end of the year, we'd put them all together. January screw-up, February screw- up, and we'd have the failure of the a year award. And did that for years until my sister said, "We'll call it the magical moment award." But it was about initi initiative, taking initiative, taking responsibility, taking ownership, trying new things, seeing what works, iteration, entrepreneurial mindset. It's not linear. It's thinking creatively outside the box. That's what a dyslexic by definition has to do. And that's what I thought a successful business needed to do. And it literally empowered our employees loved it because they felt seen and heard >> and safe I guess >> and safe because they was like as long as they do it with, you know, no one's jumping off cliffs here. We're not encouraging, you know, recklessness, but risk-taking. And it literally allowed the business not just to survive, but to start to thrive in ways I couldn't ever
imagine. I I think that's a really important just such an important lesson to so many business owners especially in these changing times where everything's moving so quickly in AI and technology that most people are incentivized just to business as usual you know protect our position if we're successful or you know to prolong convention or whatever that might mean but businesses that adopt that approach clearly have an edge in these rapidly changing times. >> Yeah. No. And and look, I mean it back to just, you know, I remember there was a book Tom Peters wrote called The Pursuit of Wow. I mean, if there was one book that just just hit me in the core that sort of expressed everything I wanted to become, he talked about hire the smile, train the skill, uh about finding these superstar leaders and developing owners with your leadership team that they, you know, he talked about, I remember the Ritz Carlton at the time gave literally cash to the folks that were cleaning the rooms and gave them the ability to use the cash as needed to solve a problem for their customers. >> They created ownership with frontline employees that were undervalued or devalued. He talked about, I remember, diversity as a business essential with all the anti-woke, anti-Dei stuff we're dealing with in the United States of America. I mean, from a business perspective, there's a business imperative to advance diversity. But it was it was Peter's decades ago that really created that mindset for me in the business. Diversity broadly defined >> uh in every way, shape, or form. And so the business became this sort of the pursuit of wow of awe of surprise of iteration of of daring energy. So the core ideology just kept growing in that space. Restaurants hotels wineries and audacious adventurous people uh that wanted to sort of build a brand build something that was special. It wasn't about money. It was about pursuit of meaning and purpose moments. >> So why did you leave that and do politics? >> I know there was a two things happened. I got a phone call. I was running the wine store, closing it up, doing bookkeeping, accounting, you know, my the warehouse was in my apartment. Um, one night right
before I'm closing up, this guy runs in um to the store and very nervous guy and he's like, "Can can you help me? What's a good champagne? Just I got to get cold." He's like, "Thank you." Put it away. I'm like, "It's good." He goes, "Can you wrap it?" I said, "Yeah, I got it wrapped." Says, "Thank you, man." About 30 minutes later, the guy comes back. I'm like, "Oh, damn." Like, I screwed up or something. but he's got this girl with him and he's knocking on the door and I open key back up. He comes in. He goes, "Just want to introduce you to my fiance." And I said, "Wow." He goes, "Well, your champagne, I just asked her to marry down the block at the Palace of Fine Arts >> and we love the champagne and I just want to say thank you. You were so nice to me." >> I remember literally sitting there crying after he left. >> Like that's everything that this is like this is this is this is business, man. >> It's not a transaction. It's relationships. Talk about moments. Magic, man. That's that's it. To your point, I thought, "This is it. This is my bliss. This is I'm going to keep doing this forever." And then I got a damn call from the mayor of San Francisco. >> Can I just ask you on that question? When that guy came in with his fiance, why was it so meaningful to you? I can literally still see the emotion in your face some 20 years later. >> Because what I did had meaning. It mattered in a way I never thought. I thought it was a transaction. >> Thought I was buying something. and I was selling something. Wasn't that man? >> It was it was marking a really important moment in his life. Business changed after that. It wasn't business. It was just it was it was a different proposition. >> Then you get a phone call >> and I get a phone call and uh screwed everything up. Willie Brown says, "Hey, you've been you know, you just opened this store and uh you know, I've been reading. You were complaining getting those permits. It was taking too long." And >> he's Willie Brown. Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, former speaker of the California Assembly, one of the most dynamic,
>> one of the most extraordinary politicians in California history, I would argue American history, and I don't say that lightly. Some of the world's great leaders will identify as Willie Brown as one of the most transformative political leaders. And uh so there's a couple articles in the paper about me bitching about permits and parking or something. And he calls me, he goes, "This is Willie Brown." I'm like, "Oh, Mr. Mayor." He goes, "Hey, come on down next Wednesday. I'm a put you on the film commission." I'm like, "This is amazing. I'm going to be on the film commission. I'm 20ome years old. Got a wine store, about to open a restaurant I was working on, and now he's put me on the film commission." I go down to city hall that next Wednesday. It's a group of 20 or 30 people. He's swearing a bunch of people on commissions. And he says, "And Gavin Newsome, you know, opened a a wine store down the block, blah blah blah." Goes the new chair of the parking and traffic commission. I'm like, I thought I was going on the film commission. Literally didn't tell me or anyone. I didn't even know what chair meant. And all of a sudden, 26,7 years old, I'm now the president of San Francisco's Parking and Traffic Commission. He just randomly put me in that position. Inspiration, desperation. I know what the hell I was doing. And that was how my political career began. Literally that phone call, that appointment, not to film, but parking in traffic. And uh that marked a pretty significant moment in hindsight in my life. >> And that was a pivotal moment in your your trajectory because you were on course to continue being an entrepreneur probably for the rest of your life. >> Yeah. >> Could have been somebody. >> Jesus. So give me the whistle stop between that moment when he places you in this role to here. I know I know whistle stop is a tough word to use to describe that journey but what is the whistle stop? >> Well I just I mean I I put my head down. I I I learned everything I could back to sort of the humility of not knowing what you don't know and recognizing, you know, success leaves clues and you can learn from everybody. And I started listening, learning from people,
absorbing. And I applied myself as parking traffic commissioner. So much so, nine months later, uh there was a vacancy on our our board of supervisors, our city council, and Willie Brown goes, "You know what? You've been doing a pretty decent job here, man. I'm gonna give you a shot." So, I was a relatively young guy now is the entrepreneur business person on our city council board of supervisors and I just hit the ground running. I opened I by that time opened a few extra businesses. It was a part-time job but I started to apply myself a little bit more full-time. Had to put together a management group to start managing the business and started applying myself more as a supervisor. Spent almost seven, eight years doing that. And I was a relatively young guy, 33, four, and Willie Brown was termed out as mayor. And there was an open with the mayor's uh uh seat. And I think at 33, I announced why the hell not. Um, you know, give it a shot. Miss 100% of shots you don't take. And uh was I think pulling third or fourth and decided to go for it and ran for mayor of San Francisco. >> You became mayor of San Francisco. You had a big impact while you were mayor of San Francisco. One of the things people remember you a lot for is your attitude towards same-sex couples and the uh Defense of Marriage Act >> where you took a quite a controversial stance at the time by enabling I believe it was um same-sex couples in the state to get their marriage licenses. >> Well, I was uh yeah, it was uh 2004 and uh my party, the Democratic party was not uh um people were not enthusiastic, weren't even promoting. In fact, they were almost universally opposed to same-sex marriage. And I had an experience in Washington DC. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the house, invited me as a new mayor to listen to George Bush give his final State of the Union speech. And I was there um with an extra ticket, her husband's ticket. And I was up there in the rafters listening to George Bush give a speech. And in the speech, he's talking about Iraq war. He's talking about a lot of interesting things. And he ends with, "It's time for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage." And everyone starts applauding and the people around me are
applauding. I'm like, Jesus. I walk back out and you had to put your cell phones, early cell phone days. And we're all in line waiting to get our cell phones back. And I remember the couple right next to me as I'm waiting in line after the speech goes, that was a hell of a speech. The president gave, I'm so sick and tired. I'll never forget these guys said, "I'm so sick and tired of the homosexual agenda." And I'm like, and I literally turned homosexual. It was porative. And all I thought about is, man, I want to introduce myself as mayor of San Francisco. I didn't say a word. I didn't even thought about marriage equality. When I ran for mayor, no one asked me about it. They were talking about domestic partnerships. It was literally that moment that I walked outside, used that cell phone, called my chief of staff, and said, "We need to do something about it." He goes, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Well, I'm gonna come back tomorrow, man. Let's do something." I just got elected mayor and made the decision then and it unfolded a few weeks later to start marrying same-sex couples. And we married Phyllis Lion and Delm Martin. And they've been together almost 50 years. You talk about faith, love, and devotion, constancy, what marriage should be about. They were denied the ability to marry for only one reason. They were a same-sex couple. And uh we decided to test the law and was told that people found out and they were not going to allow us to move forward with the first this marriage. We were going to do a simple ceremonial marriage and then file a lawsuit. Courts open at 9:00. They were going to do a temporary restraining order. I realized I was mayor. I could open city hall earlier. So we opened city hall at 8. We married Phyllis and Lion. Phyllis and Lion um and Dell rather and nine o'clock the courts opened and we waited for the decision and the judge said there's no irreparable harm. There's no reason to have a temporary resting which meant that we could keep marrying same couples which was not what we had imagined. Fast forward what we call the winter of love in San Francisco not the summer of love. February 2004, 4,036 couples from 46 states in eight countries came to San Francisco to live their lives out loud to say I do in this magical experience that just shook me to the core and
changed just my relationship to my party. They were pissed. They were furious. >> The Democratic party. >> Yes. And I got an earful from all of them. people I adored, revered. The same people, the same people said, all of them. I mean, this is the road advice that everyone goes, "Whatever you do, just do the right thing. Do what you think is right." I remember that's what they, you know, hey, young man, congrats on being married. Just do what you think is right. >> You do what you think is right. How the who the hell are you? I mean, I remember those, who the hell are you to do what you just did? And it sort of shook my confidence in this whole bracket of politics. like what am I doing? What did I just do? Um but it was it was a hell of a first impression as mayor uh to do that and uh that sort of started my political life. >> When I overlap the dates here, you win your mayoral mayoral race in 2003. >> Um your mother was getting was sick in the years in the leadup to that. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. >> Yep. So, you're contending with the woman in your life who's clearly had the most impactful role on shaping who you are and being there for you when the odds were against you and when no one else was. In the leadup and as your sort of political career starts to accelerate, she is suffering with breast cancer. >> Yep. And also suffering with her son being in politics. She did not want me to go in politics. In fact, the the biggest regret she had is that I was walking down the path that my father was interested in that led to their divorce in the first place. He pursued politics and lost in two elections for state senate and for county supervisor. Ironically, the seat that I held lost both races, was in debt, was humiliated, defeated, said he had a breakdown, and left. That's when they got divorced. and she saw me walking down his path and she loved seeing me in business. She ended up working for me as our bookkeeper and she saw my passion in the business. She said, "Why the hell you getting in politics? Don't do this to yourself." And she literally near deathbed said,
"Just please don't do this. Don't don't keep doing this." She was really upset that I ran for mayor. something I think about. You know, there there's days where I'm like I go, "She told me so." You know, when you're sitting there facing a recall, you're like, "Told you." So, >> a recall for anyone that doesn't know is >> No, they just, you know, in the middle of, you know, you get a four-year term and two years later they say you and they get a petition and try to get rid of you. And uh I faced that just second time in a half century in California. I I defeated it overwhelmingly. But that was a hell of a thing to experience and to see the nationalization of that recall. I mean, the the entire Republican party came out to try to take me out politically. And you think about what your mom said, like she may have been right. When did you realize that your mother wasn't going to make it with her breast cancer? >> It was when it she she went through so often as a case. She fought back. It was in remission and then boom, it hit again. And it metastasized and it was and she did it was I'll tell you this I will never ever ever ever recommend for anyone. And this is just my own personal experience. She called me, left a voice message. Imagine getting this voice message. I was very busy doing all this stuff and obviously not attentive enough to her. And she was making the point. She goes, "Hi honey, it's your mother. I know you haven't seen me in a while, but next Thursday I won't be around, so you may want to come next Wednesday because it will be my last day." Literally left a voicemail like that. I called my sister. I'm like, "What the hell is this?" She goes, "She's crying." And she said, "She just told me she's going to do an assisted suicide because it's so bad." She left a voicemail. And so that next week I was there, my sister and I were in her room. Doctor comes in, gives her some what turned out to be oxycottton. I remember like early on like what are these pills? She had to take those an hour before he got there. She takes them. God is my going through [ __ ] photos like this, man. It's all she wanted to see. All the old photos of us growing up. And we're sitting there on my sister
on the left, I'm on the right, my mom there took these pills waiting for the doctor and she's going through all these old photo albums of us growing up talking about these moments. Yeah. Come on, man. So, yeah. And uh but wanted to be there for her. doctor comes in and ministers and she starts gasping. My sister runs out. The doctor had already left and I was like I She's gasping for air and I'm just sitting there and holding her hand and she's and her last breath and uh I just sat there and my sister no one walked in. I felt like for a day, it felt like hours, but it was just probably 10 minutes before someone finally came in just sitting there with my mother who passed away. And uh not realizing that moment, what it represented, what it ultimately meant. Uh I regret that was hard. I don't being there for assisted suicide. Uh by the way, I was proud we changed the law in California. That was probably done illegally. I don't even want to know. And if you want to come after me, come after me. um she needed to do it. She was in so much pain, suffering. Now it's legal to do that, but it wasn't at the time when she did it. Um and um so that was uh that was a moment and um you know that was you know just became mayor. It was back to just making stupid mistakes, man. You know, you're brand new mayor, you're overwhelmed, you're trying to figure yourself out, you lose your mom, no excuse. um was in a marriage that was going south. You know, it was a it was you know >> what did she say to you when she I had no idea that you sat there as she she was administered the drugs that took her life. >> What were those conversations? What do you say to someone in such a situation where it's the last conversations you're having? It was um you know you you say the prefuncter things you know just know how much you meant to me how much I love you everything else and and she um she all she cared about is just don't forget me she said that that was the last word she said God is my witness don't forget me and uh and one of the things I'm most
proud of my sister we started through our plumpjack we start a foundation um So, every year we raise money to cancer research in my mom's name. And uh and we've never forgotten her. And uh but she was someone that could have easily been forgotten, man. Um she's just, you know, sacrificed everything for two kids. She, you know, she left us her character experience, no money, nothing. I mean, she was just she struggled her own life and uh just gave it all to us. And uh so you know those are and we all have people in our lives like that. What a gift and uh you know I was blessed. >> Were there any words unsaid? Sometimes once people have moved on and you mature as as an adult and a man you you see things differently and you >> I mentioned that earlier being perhaps way too candid. I imagine after this is over my folks what the hell were you you know who cares? Life's too short. Um but when I said you know when she talked about being average I I didn't confront her on that. that just that was for me perhaps more than her. It wasn't about me this moment. It was about just, you know, it was so important for her to walk through all these memories. And again, that's what it's about, man. It's memories, moments. It's about nothing else. >> When you're later, you win the race to become governor of San Francisco. Do you think about her? Do you think Do you wish she could have seen >> Yeah. I I wish she could see my four kids. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Come on. >> Yeah. >> I got sworn in as governor of California and my wife's there and we got a three-year-old. He's got his pacifier and he's got his blanket and he in the middle of my speech runs up. I'm giving the speech stressed out. Again, I don't read speeches. So, it was a read I had to read. So, I'm like, I can't look because I'm going to lose my sight on the on the teleprompter. And my son runs up. My wife was nervous to run up on stage because it was like, this is a big damn deal. And he comes right up, grabs me. And everyone kind of like is moving around the audience. I'm like, what do I do? And I like just instinctually lifted
him >> and he put his head right on the side and started to fall asleep. And I read the speech with my son. No one remembers a damn word I said. I don't remember a word. Everyone remembers what it felt like. Oh, I thought about that moment. If my mom was around to see that wasn't the governor, it was uh it was the parent and uh yeah, sorry, ma'am. It's uh unbecoming. Forgive me. But that that uh I wish I wish he was around for them. Why? because it's uh well I wish I could thank her for being an extraordinary parent. I never did. I told you I took her for granted. I never knew how hard it was until I had my own kids. But I I think she'd be so proud of of uh of of our, you know, 9-year-old Dutch, 15year-old Montana. I think she'd be proud of me in that respect. I think she wanted me to be happy. She wanted me to be a good husband. I got this incredible rockstar wife, Jennifer. I got these four unbelievable kids, man. Just filled me with joy. Um I struggle to be a better parent, husband, politics, stress, you know, but u that's all she wanted for me. >> When you're in the public eye, um as I guess I kind of am now because people watch me a lot, man. Um, it's there's always this balance between what people see, which is a very two-dimensional thing, which is what people see of me, and then there's the the the imperfect messy home life, which I contend with every single day. Like, even on the way here this morning, I'm like, I'm going to be late for Gavin New Gavin Newsome because my girlfriend's having like period cramps, and I'm like, I don't want to leave my girlfriend, but I need to go. I'm going to be late. And I'm like trying to, you know, and then we had the alarms going off in the house. And then the all the lights flicker cuz we just moved in as you know. And then the just craziness. And then you look at my phone and there's business problems. And then there's my my my family problems are going on. And then I come here >> and I interview you. >> I'm sorry. I feel like I got in your way. >> No, no, no. But obviously it's a great it's a tremendous honor as you know, but it's just it's I say that because there
is a behind the scenes and the behind the scenes is not as perfect as the exterior. >> No. Oh man, >> you were alluding to the season of your life being filled with imperfection. >> Yeah. >> Tell me about the human imperfection that was was taking place behind the scenes as you were excelling professionally. >> I think there was a a magazine, The Economist did a headline said, "Young man in a hurry, he wants to be governor." Seriously. And it wasn't question mark. It was more There we are. It was more like like he's serious. He actually thinks he could be governor. It was kind of a snarky headline and piece, but the headline struck me. Young man in a hurry. That's who I was. Was the entrepreneur. I'm sort of trying to, you know, just trying to make things happen, trying new things, seeing what works, having a little bit more success than failure. Um, you know, learning from mistakes, moving on. Um, you know, move pretty quickly, relatively young age. I mean, I was, I think, one of the youngest mayors in San Francisco history. um you know in my 30s and um and you know losing my mom a relationship my my first wife who it was ended extraordinarily well she's you know I have nothing negative to say etc but it ended that was embarrassing you know it's you're it's in the public everything's in the I'm growing up in the public growing up with this just bright lights >> how did you [ __ ] up >> yeah I just I I I just I got I I didn't I wasn't situationally aware I wasn't emotionally mature in terms I remember a good friend of mine Mie Silver who's just a rock star got my just just got my act she she is the one who got me to get my act together. She goes I said she goes you're the mayor in San Francisco. I said yeah I know. She goes well then start acting like it. I said what are you talking about? I said I said when I go in I don't need to be in the front row. She goes you need to be in the I said I don't need to I don't like being in the front I don't like I don't need to be right. She says the [ __ ] mayor and you'll be in the front row and
you'll have people watch you in the front row because that's what they want from their mayor. And I'm like I remember her saying this. I'm like what? I just say she's like no I'm good. She said it's not about you. I said well no I I don't need that. I don't need to I like the job. I don't that's that's not part of the job. That's the p that's like the press conference side. like I don't and it was such a she literally it had such a I remember that I remember >> sitting there with dinner with her at Delansancy Street when she said that to me and it sort of hit me in the core. There was I there was a lack of maturity that I I was just the entrepreneur that happened to be mayor and I this is ironic based on our conversation needed to play the role a little bit more than I was and I needed to mature and I needed to get my act together and I you know and that I went through a process there was a couple years there a year where you know a lot of things happened all at once and I was able to get through it get reelected. >> What were those things that happened all at once? >> Well, I mean, divorce, you lose your mom, divorce, dealing with a new job, dealing with high-profile decisions that became very national. All of a sudden, I'm, you know, punching above my weight as a young elected official in ways that I not many people didn't necessarily imagine. Marriage quality issues being one of them. other things that I was involved in to your point about drinking a little too much um and after the divorce making some stupid mistakes that uh that I owned up to and regret and uh having to work through all that. I mean these are you know it's around this time you know and uh you know what I could tell this kid. >> What would you tell him? >> Get your [ __ ] together. >> You're referring to an extrammarital affair which you owned up to. >> Yeah. I wasn't married, but she was. And u and I it's funny. I I've got a a little >> um memoir that I'm putting out, ironically, called Young Man in a Hurry next year. >> I love the title. I can relate as well >> that I'm very, you know, I reflect on that and dive deeper in a very self-critical way and I hope very honest
way and I hope people can appreciate that. I think people will because I think every normal human being understands that they too are imperfect and especially when life takes hold >> and you're growing and you're learning. We all make mistakes. I've made mistakes and I expect to make a lot more. >> Yeah. >> But I think it's in the admittance of those mistakes and acknowledging them that that's where we uh >> that's where we find out who we actually are. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and Yeah. Humiliated. Humiliated. >> I had no knowledge of any of this stuff. But so when you say humiliated, I >> I just humiliated my dad. Uh he said something and I'll tell you it carried forward with me. He told me at the time uh he was so disappointed in me and he said you go home with the one who brought you to the dance. [ __ ] And that was the impact I had on one of my friends that I you know because of that very and I don't it's not a way it's just like the shortest. It wasn't even a relationship was like just just some stupid stuff. And um and I've just tried to you know I think the fact that we're friends today is like really important to me like one of the most important things like to sort of reconcile and that's been really u profoundly important as part of a journey. Uh but you know I let him down I embarrassed my dad. I embarrassed myself. I wasn't myself and u I had to get my [ __ ] together and um and did I just a drop of the dime. I mean back to just Mimi Silver just a rock star. and she told me, you know, I remember she said, "You're coming over to see me tonight and we're going to fix this." >> I've built companies from scratch and backed many more. And there's a blind spot that I keep seeing in early stage founders. They spend very little time thinking about HR. And it's not because they're reckless or they don't care. It's because they're obsessed with building their companies. And I can't fault them for that. At that stage, you're thinking about the product, how to attract new customers, how to grow your team, really, how to survive. And HR slips down the list because it doesn't feel urgent, but sooner or later
it is. And when things get messy, tools like our sponsor today, just works go from being a nice to have to being a necessity. Something goes sideways and you find yourself having conversations you did not see coming. This is when you learn that HR really is the infrastructure of your company and without it, things wobble. And Just Work stops you learning this the hard way. It takes care of the stuff that would otherwise drain your energy and your time, automating payroll, health insurance benefits, and it gives your team human support at any hour. It grows with your small business from startup through to growth, even when you start hiring team members abroad. So, if you want HR support that's there through the exciting times and the challenging times, head to justworks.com now. That's just.com. At that age, you were a very young man. I mean, you still look look like a young man now. God bless you, brother. >> Um, but uh, young men are in particular have a particular set of struggles in the modern world and you've used certain words that sort of parlay into that. You've used the words purpose and meaning >> and if we look at some of the stats around how young men are doing in the country, it's not great. And even even young boys are doing terribly across the world for a variety of reasons. And when we think about the political climate and what's happened in this last election cycle and how young men are voting increasingly for a certain set of ideas, what what what do you think is going on with young men and what is the solution or answer that will lead them to a better outcome? >> You know, I'm really proud. My wife um who's been a real leader, she's done a half dozen documentaries. She did one that was particularly wellreceived called um a misrepresentation about the myths and disinformation around women and girls. She followed up with two years later in 2015 uh with a documentary called The Mask You Live In about masculinity. In 2015, she was highlighting all the things the trend lines a decade ago that are headlines today >> as it relates to the crisis of of boys and men. And she was noting the suicide rate. She was talking about, you know,
deaths of despair. She was talking about educational attainment. She was talking about all these issues that were a next level crisis. And it was so ahead of her time in so many respects. And and she's come back to me on that over and over again, particularly with our two boys and their maturation versus my two girls uh in the relationship we have to our deeper understanding of how men and u and and girls and women and boys are different. And and so this is code red in this country around the world increasingly. And if it was happening to any minority group, particularly in my party, the Democratic party, we'd be all over it. Instead, we've been timid about it because men have this sort of hierarchical uh benefits in society. Go back hundreds and hundreds of years. Oh, men are really struggling really. >> You know, men still dominate in all these key positions of power and influence. But when you see all what's happening underneath, it is a crisis. And as a consequence, the Republican party, Donald Trump in particular, and I think some respects, what's happening in this sort of manosphere, and I don't mean that pjoratively, but in, you know, there's been not an exploitation, at least there's a recognition and a relationship to it that has attracted a lot of young men that are seeking meaning, purpose, and mission. And as a consequence, it's also been weaponized uh particularly by one party in a way that I don't think is ultimately beneficial or positive. Our party needs to own up to that and we need to address these realities. Uh Richard Reeves is doing amazing work on it. Scott Galloway is doing amazing work on it. So many folks in this space uh you know cats been doing a decade ago talking about it. But Democratic Party, my party needs to own up in the space. And just so I'm not, you know, accused of preaching and not practicing, I've worked for the last six months on an executive order that we're about to release in this space that goes to issues around education. Can't be what you can't see. And a lot of these kindergarten, elementary teachers, most of them are women. is so about recruiting more men uh to become teachers, focusing on caregiving, focusing more broadly on very intentional interventions to begin to address this crisis.
>> The Democratic Party, I think it's fair to say, most certainly played their hand wrong in this regard. And the word played is obviously again comes loaded, but but very much I think I think to so some I think people could fairly say to some degree turned against or misunderstood men is a probably a better way of saying it. Misunderstood the plight of men and boys. and the the the Republican party I think the message that they offered although there's shades of you know behavior or um narrative that is not productive at least spoke directly to men >> 100% we didn't >> what do you think the Democratic party got wrong as it relates to appealing to young men what's the narrative that the Democratic party projected but shouldn't have >> I think there was just deep lack of empathy. >> Yeah. >> Care, any compassion to what was going on. This this uh and and and recognition, even deeper understanding. I think it's still some I still have conversations with folks and and people are very uncomfortable in my party talking about this, particularly members of my party in leadership positions, particularly women that just feel like, come on, we just went through me too. We're struggling with gender inequality inequality. We still don't have equal representations in all these CEO positions and obviously we're struggling in legislatores. Uh we continue to have this glass ceiling we can't break and what more proof do you need than Kla Harris and and uh and Hillary Clinton. Uh we don't even get paid for uh the same amount as as men and what the hell are you talking to me about the unique plight and challenges of men. And then you start saying well there's going to be two to one graduates coming from our UC system here in California in the next six years. They're like that's not true. and and then they see the stats women and they go, "Oh, I didn't realize that." Or >> two to one women graduating >> versus I mean, we're on that track. I mean, we're moving down that path in the UK. >> You see the suicide rates are just off the chart. You see the deaths of
despair, meaning overdoses off the charts. >> And you see all of these indexes of unhappiness and loneliness and isolation. You see, I mean, Scott, it's been just he's the best. I mean, talking about what this means in terms of just the inability for for boys to ever become men, to be caregivers. uh to be those warriors, to have, you know, to to be uh those role models, to even have to have the masculine traits of just being able to be engaged in a real relationship as opposed to attached to some notion of relationship online porn or something. And so I it's a comprehensive strategy that needs to be engaged. And for me politically, it's as I said, it's code red. not just the substance, the morality of it, but also the politics attached to it because the other parties weaponize this and it's it's multicultural. It's multi-thnic. It's not just it's not just white male uh grievance that's being expressed in this space. >> If and when you become president in 2028 or another year, >> how is the attitude towards men going to shift and what are the practical ways that you get there towards, you know, >> well, I don't think you wait for that moment. And I think we have to shape that moment. I think we have to take responsibility. We have to take account. We have to have a sober, first of all, you have to have a deeper sober reflection. Why the hell Democratic party is at 27% in polls just a few months ago. I mean, it's a toxic party in terms of its brand. >> Why? >> Uh, exactly. We need to understand that. I can give you 25 theories. >> Can you give me super because I'm not a politician, so I don't understand a lot of the political talk, but like that is staggering. >> Yes. >> And and why did it happen? >> Yes. >> Thank you. No, but that was the question. Why? How does that >> why it's one of the reasons I started my own podcast. It was part of that exploration. Again, back to humility and grace. Two words I'll use over and over and over and over again. Seek first to understand before you're understood. I listened to all the punditry hours after
the election results. Yeah. >> And everyone was an expert. I'm like, that's amazing. You're an expert. It was Israel for sure. No, it was inflation for sure. No, it was interest rates for sure. No, it was incumbency uh for sure. No, it was uh it was woke for sure. It was trans for sure. Everyone was for sure. They knew exactly what it was. I'm like, "This is amazing. Everyone just knows what's going on." Meanwhile, I'm like 20 pages in writing this down. Say, "Oh, it it's about loss of man." "Oh, no. It's about the man of No, it's about it was about Joe Rogan. We didn't go on Joe." Oh, for sure. It was about No, she didn't, you know, she didn't say this or she it was the view for sure. She could have separated from Biden. No, it was it was a And and then I'm like, "Well, wait a second. I I need to really understand this more fully. Well, you know, uh and so that became my own journey back to the entrepreneur of the trying to iterate and deciding to get some folks that I vehemently disagree on with it on my on a new podcast, Charlie Kirk, because you know, for sure he was successful in convincing a lot of young men to turn out in record numbers for Trump. I wanted to learn about that. Back to notion of success leaves clues. >> I want to pick his brain. What are you doing, right, man? Show some humility and grace as it relates to uh not try to be argumentative in in the interview. Just I'm trying to pick I want to know why you're so successful. That offended a lot of people. >> Uh there he's got a plan. He's executing a plan. He's got a strategy. He's got a date that he's identified with a goal attached to it. Uh he's got a dream with a deadline. He's there in places people don't expect him to be. He's meeting with folks without any filter. He's willing to confront people he disagrees with and and agrees with. He's willing to be out there on the field. He's he's organized a construct and he's been very deliberative at building a sense of community and this notion of community. We all want to be connected to something bigger than ourselves is a big part of this as well. Part of the MAGA movement. And particularly with people feeling disconnected, you're naturally going to want to find your way back to something bigger than themselves that sort of moores you and gives you a sense of
purpose and meaning as well. >> And when people are lost, they do go in search of someone who resonates with them and someone who speaks directly to that their plight. And I my observation as someone that's not an American, when I think about someone like Charlie Kirk versus Camala Harris, it's the absolute opposite approach. >> Yeah. >> Camala Harris, lots of people say she avoided going on Rogan. She wanted him to fly to She wanted Rogan to fly to her. She was going to give him a tiny short time window. It was probably going to be a bit sanitized in all all respects. And then Charlie Kirk sits on campuses across the US and has students come up and ask him any question. And his response is he shows you his response to his credit and he um is doesn't care about sanitization or being politically correct. >> Correct. and he puts it on YouTube for hours and hours and hours and hours. And I think in a glassbox world where we get to see inside now because of technology, the blackbox approach where your PR team paints tries to paint an image on the outside is over. And we saw it in the election cycle. And you're doing you're leading the I have to give you credit. You are leading the charge there because I can't think of another key political figure globally who has started a podcast where you literally invite the other side on. So, you're doing I think you're playing the glass box approach. >> I app I love the way you describe that and I I everything you said resonated with me. Um had Steve Bannon on. >> Yeah. >> Which is just in of itself was interesting. Look um these folks exist and persist. You can deny it. My party can deny it at its own peril. Back to your point about what the hell's happened to my party. And so trying to understand that, trying to unpack that. But you know it's interesting just I think you know comma is an old friend of mine. I don't want to get into comma and I say old friend and people roll their eyes in politics. People say you know old friend it means they're friendnemies. It's not but we we go back before we were both in politics. We both share that Willie Brown the former mayor in common in terms of a relationship that we both had. Uh and as
a consequence of the relationship we had with him uh we were able to get to know one another as sort of this cohort. And um and I I I think a lot about you know >> what we've just gone through. I wish I'd love to see Ka >> on your show. >> I'd love to see her picture of mom and dad and I know her as well or better than most. >> Yeah. >> But I would love to see that side of her. >> I would. So this notion of what' you say? Glass box. >> Glass box versus black box. >> Black box. >> Uh hey I'm on here for a reason. Yeah, I just, you know, it's like I'm out of any excuse. Look, you are who you are and uh let it let it all out there. And I think people I I I I think we claim we long for authenticity. I still mostly believe that. Sometimes I question that because people want you to be your authentic self, but they're like, "Well, don't swear as much or be your authentic self, but don't be so emotional or be your authentic self, but there's a but." Uh but I think at the end of the day, I think we're we've crossed that. I think we're on the other side. People just want more of you, whoever the hell you are, >> regardless of what it is. >> Because even the crazy thing I I observe about Trump is even the imperfect things he says that would once upon a time have revolted on people and would have had adverse reactions. The fact that he's willing to say them creates the impression in my mind that I know who he is. >> Yeah. And you don't have to like someone, but if you trust that you know who they are, then you feel, I think, safer in predicting what they'll do. >> Totally. >> Now, if I don't see Kamala sat on Joe Rogan or some someone like this, getting to know her unfiltered. You know, you your team didn't tell me this. Your team didn't give me any parameters. They didn't say you can't ask him about this. Don't talk about this. There was no parameters. >> At least people will know who you are. >> Yeah. And I think most people don't. They see me as sort of, you know, slick guy that, you know, was they think I was
grew up in with a trust fund. Everything was handed to them. People don't know my entrepreneurial background. I don't think they they they they they believe what they they may have seen on Fox News out here or, you know, One American News and the weaponization of that. And so, you know, I just it's critical, I think, for our party generally. I think for both parties now, just you've just got to get out of that bubble. I give Trump, to your point, credit in that respect in every way, shape, or form. criticize him for many things. He can't criticize him for accessibility, uh, for at least appearing to be authentic in terms of his approach, his willingness to confront and engage. And I I think that's very refreshing. >> How do you think America's doing? >> I think we're struggling our identity. I think we're um, you know, Trump has made it made us feel free to shove again. It's not our better selves. Um, you know, the the sort of John Meechum language, you know, the soul of America is is is is struggling. And I really worry about our institutions. I worry about our democracy. I worry about neighbors turning on neighbors. Uh, people forgetting the universal truths that we all want to be loved. We all need to be loved. I talked about everybody needing to be connected. We also need to be respected. And I think people are talking down to each other, talk, talking past each other. It's again why I want platform people I disagree with. and Nuke Gingrich on, former Speaker Gingrich who led my recall effort against me. You know, I just I'm trying to just find some balance in that respect because, you know, there are good people that vehemently disagree with us. Uh I don't know that it benefits any of us to uh to demean or belittle folks. That's my thing with Trump. He attacks vulnerable communities. My mom her what her real early indelible inspiration for me in terms of one of those two to three jobs she had wasn't just working as a waitress and doing the bookkeeping but she worked for aid to adoption of special kids with the Debult family that had kids with intellectual and physical uh disabilities. And I remember with spending time with these kids and I hate bullies. I I mean forgive the word hate. I know I I just I dislike I hate
bullies. I don't like people demeaning other people. I don't like people scapegoing scapegoating vulnerable communities. My why is standing up for ideals and striking out against injustice. It defines nine out of 10 things for me, personal, professional, standing up for ideals, striking out against injustice. And it's just to me unjust to see people demeaned and belittled and to use to see vulnerable communities used as ponds to talk about, you know, alligator whatever and and Florida and talk about immigrants and de demeaning uh in ways and they have to zigg and zagu if they want to avoid getting killed by an alligator or something or mocking people with disabilities. I that's where I that's where I get that's where I stand firm and uh right now my biggest fear you asked about how where our country is. I feel like Trump has opened that overturn window in a way uh that I very concerned about our ability to get back to find our better humanity. >> Who does Trump care about >> himself? Period. Full stop. It's not complicated. He doesn't he doesn't care if he's the heel or the hero as long as he's the star. I mean, it's and that's just anyone that spent time with them. I spent time with this much more than any Democrat, certainly any Democratic governor in the country. Period. Full stop. I did it through COVID my his first term and certainly even in the second term. >> And what surprised you? >> Nothing that surprised me now is that he's a very different guy than he was in the first term. He's uh there's no limits now. It's there's a megalomania there. >> Megalamia. >> He feels no limits now. And you feel that in every way. He can say and do whatever the hell he wants. And there's no oversight. There's no advise and consent. There's no co-equal branch of government. Speaker of our House of Representatives completely abdicated that. The question is, do the courts hold up? Or we the people? And uh I'll tell you that and we're celebrating our 250th anniversary of the founding fathers, the best of the Roman Republic, Greek democracy. and and uh you know this notion of of of system of checks and balances, popular sovereignty and uh
I think it's uh it's on life support now and I don't say that lightly. I say that very thoughtfully and I say that as a guy that's watched the president of the United States not send military in his first term or his first six months anywhere in the world except to an American city where he has 5,000 military in the streets of Los Angeles. A war within. So, I say this very soberly and mindful of the moment we are in American history. >> Do you think he wants to see you fail? >> I think he wants to take me out and down at the same time. I think he enjoys the sparring with me. I think he I think he thrives on it. I know he does. >> Cuz he calls you Gavin New Scum. Yes. >> But then meets with you privately. Yeah. >> And what are those meetings like? >> Unbelievably cordial. Unbelievably it drives people crazy when I say this, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it. every time I have a conversation, including the the night before he quote unquote federalized the National Guard. We had an unbelievably good conversation and we were going back and forth. He said, "Use this cell phone. Keep keep calling me on this cell phone directly. You need anything, call me. You need anything, call me." Which is an amazing final statement as I hung up. Only to read eight hours later uh that new scum I read him the riot act, which he never did. Completely made 100% made it up and then federalizes the guard. Um, it's uh it's a game. It's a show. It's a dangerous game and it's a very exhausting show and it's becoming derivative and uh and more dangerous. >> Isn't this just how politics goes in America? >> Shouldn't No, it shouldn't. Look, I used to have my beef with George W. Bush, George HW Bush. We we'd have our beefs on the other side. Uh Republicans certainly with Clinton or Obama or even Biden. Long for those days. University. I go in the office of Ronald Reagan's old office, Governor Ronald Reagan, that's my old office in as governor of California. I mean, you know, his his last speech in the Oval Office, his last speech was about the life force of new Americans, Lady Liberty's torch, our better angels. I mean, what happened to that Republican party? Um, and uh this is different. This is darkness. >> Really
>> darkness >> because I hear this every election cycle. >> No, this is this is dark. We're we're only six months in. Mhm. >> The vandalization that he's done to this democracy and institutions. I mean, eliminating oversight. I'm not just talking about a co-equal branch of government. >> What does that mean for the average person that doesn't >> It means there's no He's eliminated the inspector general's auditing capacity. He's going after uh polit political opponents, removing them from key positions of power and influence and putting in uh acolytes, putting out people uh that just do his bidding. He's pushing the boundaries on the rule of law. He's threatening to recall not just people he disagrees with. He wanted my arrest. Remember the president of the United States said Nome should be arrested. They said on what grounds he got elected. Said he doesn't like the fact that his political enemy got elected. It means he's not he doesn't say that lightly. And you know once the mind is stretched it never goes back to its original form. So every time he does this he's sort of testing these boundaries. And this is what makes me more concerned. I'll give you a proof point. God is my witness. We're sitting here when we do this today on this podcast. We just I just read this morning that Donald Trump was on the phone with the Texas legislature and they're going through a redistricting thing to basically get five more seats for the midterms because they're likely to lose the midterms and Trump is likely to lose power unless they can change the districts and rig the game. So he stays in power. >> Do you think he's going to try and stay in power >> when people close to Donald Trump when people close to Donald Trump send the governor of California >> a hat that says Trump 2028? They're not around. >> They sent you a hat saying Trump 2028. >> 2028. They're not screwing around. I sat in the Oval Office for 90 minutes with Donald Trump, first Democratic governor to do that. And he was looked and he looked around. I said, "Hey, so he was
behind you." I said, I looked around the pictures. I'm like, "Fdr." And I literally turned. I'm like, "Oh, seriously?" He goes, "Yeah." Goes, "What do you think? Three terms, four terms?" I said, "Oh, come on." And then he just starts laughing because he's lighting. He's having fun, but again, he's throwing things out. He's Yes, he's iterating. >> Do you think he would stay for a third, fourth time? >> Yeah. I mean, he I think he's the guy that tried to wreck this country, try to light our democracy on fire. He said it was it was a day of love January 6. So much so that he literally, as you know, pardoned everybody that participated in that melee. I mean, that happened. That is grounds in and of itself to question whether or not I'm overstating anything. And that was first week in office. It's it's I mean, this is shock and awe. We have people in masks going to car washes without identifying. And people are disappearing in the streets of America today. Thousands of people disappearing on the streets of America today based on what you look like, your skin color on the streets of America today. That's happening. That is not normal. And every day he's able to shapeshift and distract us to move someplace else. I've got a big announcement, huge announcement on Putin. I'll do major sanctions in 50 days. Really? I mean, this ability to distract, it's serious with lies underneath is serious. And I don't think I'm exaggerating. And I am very very cautious when it comes to this kind of language because you're right. when you you tend to say you know you know you crying wolf here uh I don't think we're overstating the seriousness uh that uh we have to push back the seriousness of purpose to which this moment needs to be met that is >> really this is not just another you know president comes in they do a bunch of changes a bunch of executive orders and then they they leave in three and a half years >> he tried to stay into office he called the elections chief in Georgia and asked I just need a few thousand votes. He wasn't [ __ ] around. He was not joking about that. He was dead serious about that. And had they found that, he would have rigged his own election. You
serious? What more evidence do you need? He's quite literally they're so concerned about taking over the House. Now, Democrats were on path to do it. They have to re-rig the game. And you think if they don't take back the House of Representatives, they won't move from some form of voter suppression the likes of which we've never seen in this country, threats of martial law. What do you think this whole experiment with 5,000 military weeks and weeks and weeks doing nothing, by the way? They're sitting in the armory. They're doing nothing. They're there for show, but he's pushing the boundaries of what they're capable of doing. Testing the courts and the constitution. That's for a larger purpose. And I'm not trying to be, you know, I'm not trying to be m it may not be intentional purpose yet, but they'll place an opportunity to utilize the lessons learned here today to extend their reach and power tomorrow. And I very much, yes, I worry about our democracy in three and a half years. And I worry about that election if they maintain their power in the House of Representatives. I'm that deeply concerned. Dead serious. >> On the balance of probability, do you think it's likely Trump will stay try and stay in office in 2028? >> On the balance probability, no. >> No. Okay. >> But I can see a scenario, but not on the balance probability. And that's on the basis of one thing, time of life. >> Oh, okay. He's >> if he was 69, not 79. >> Look, he uh this is the great grift. He's he he did what he never did in the first term. He played in the margins. he was able to take advantage of his brand and his businesses and make a few bucks here and there, but not the money he's making now. I mean, the crypto, everything he's doing. I mean, I mean, the kids now selling cell phones, the whole thing, monetizing everything, coming out with new brands and new plan. I mean, he it he finally is doing what he didn't do the first term is now is he's president of United States, but now he's going to make a fortune. So when he's no longer president, he'll have a $400 million plan that has a billion dollars of upgrades on it that'll be donated to the foundation that he can
use for the rest of his life. Thank you to the Qataris. He will have billions and billions of dollars. He'll make the vast majority of his wealth in just a few years as president of the United States. He will set himself up in that respect. He'll have hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of excess campaign cash that he'll be able to use for whatever luxurious lifestyle he ever needs. And I imagine that may satisfy him as long as he gets his person in to replace him so they can continue that griff going forward. >> The American people elected him. They said that's our guy. >> That's why my party needs to own up to that. And u this is existential. We need to do better and we need to I'm uh that's correct. Are you fa are you faithful hopeful that the Democratic party are going to wake up in time to field a serious campaign that can compete with that very sort of dominant prevailing narrative? >> I think it it starts yesterday. It's not about the guy or guy on the white horse to come save the day. It's not about 2028. It's about the midterms which we just talked about. It's also about what happens between now and the midterms. It's about the rule of law. It's about courts. It's about governors. It's about states. It's about mayors. It's about we the people citizens. I mean it look I was inspired in the no kings day. I mean you guys know a little bit about kings. I mean the no kings day five million people showed up on Trump's birthday. That gave me hope >> which was a sort of a protest against authoritarianism. >> Yeah. Against Yeah. It was look it, you know, it was Justice Brand. I said in a democracy the most important office is not office of president, governor, mayor, office of citizen. >> You're an entrepreneur. How do you think your party have done with appealing to entrepreneurs? terrible >> you you preside over San Francisco which is globally we think of as the center point of innovation and technology >> terrible >> but I I think the perception is that the Democratic party don't like entrepreneurs and the Republicans it's the home of entrepreneurship in fact all of my friends that are entrepreneurs if if they were being honest in private
they would say that they lean towards the Republican party as it relates to entrepreneurship >> I it's amazing but you know it's interesting since 1989 the end of the cold war >> in the United States of America there's been 52 million jobs created There have been three Republican administrations, three Democratic administrations. So, it's fair to say, how'd we do? Republican administrations, Democratic administrations since 1989 and then Cold War at the end of last year. 52 million jobs. And you'd say, well, it's maybe 5050. Maybe Republicans on the basis of your entrepreneur friends. Republicans probably did 60% of those jobs were created. Well, 50 of the 52 million were created under Democratic administrations. 1.9 million jobs created during Republican administrations. You look at the last three Republican presidents, they have one thing in common, recessions. During the last administration under Joe Biden, created 16.6 million jobs. And I know a lot of those were COVID jobs, but he blew past that after 18 months. He created eight times more jobs than the last three Republican administrations combined. >> But economy does better. Job creation thrives during Democratic administrations. But perception is exactly what you said. >> Yes. So you you you gave me the logic. >> I know. >> But the brain isn't orientated towards logic. It's narrative. >> Where where's the economy in this country? Why are we the fourth largest economy in the world? We have four of the top seven market cap companies in the world. Nvidia just came with $4 trillion market cap. We dominate 32 of the top 50 AI companies are right here in California. We're dominating every key industry. We're the biggest manufacturing state. We dominate naming industry. California dominates. >> So why are entrepreneurs so pissed off state? >> Why are entrepreneurs in your state pissed off? 71% of the GDP in this country are blue metro counties. >> Elon left. He went to Texas. He >> left and came right back. Where's Grock? Where's Where's his R&D headquarters, world headquarters? Where are the vast
majority of his jobs for SpaceX and and Tesla? He did that because he wanted to make a buck so he can avoid capital gains and avoid income tax as he cashes out on 20 years of large s by the taxpayers in California that created a regulatory environment that created the industry because of our vehicle emissions standards and subsidized that industry with billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money to make Elon rich. And then he turned his back so he didn't have to pay capital gains. >> Do you know I think >> and by the way he's back all his AI. Where's all his AI? It's in California. Where are all of his research and development folks? All in California. >> Everything you said might be true and I don't know the details of it, so I can't comment on that. But again, perception, come back to perception. I agree. >> When I in my, you know, over in the UK, when I watch the Democratic party um attacking these really successful individuals, >> I hate that. >> And and Biden attacking Elon Musk. Look, look, I'm not going to go into the details of Elon Musk and his imperfections. He makes it easy to attack. Both parties are doing >> but let's try and let's just try and hit this point which is the Democratic party tend to be the ones who are criticizing the world's most successful people and saying that they're this and this and never pausing to say >> actually they did something good as well. >> And it's the lack of nuance for me where I go I can't I can't trust that these people are just pure evil. I can't trust that they're just pure evil and only bad things which is all I hear. But on the right side you might hear the opposite. Where is the nuance here? Like, can you say something positive about Elon Musk? >> I've been there's been no bigger champion of Elon Musk for 20 years than I have. I've been his biggest supporter. In fact, I have one of the first Teslas right off the factory floor. I've been his biggest promoter and supporter for decades and decades. So, I've said that over and over and over again. >> All tends to be negative about these these entrepreneurs. You know, you you can understand from like left politics
around the world does seem to have a certain disdain for successful entrepreneurs. >> So, let's talk about that. It is the worst part of my party. I can't stand it. I do not begrudge other people's success. I I'm inspired by it. I admired it. We opened this conversation up all these heroes of mine. Like, and Richard Branson's a hero of mine. I love his success. I love his audacity. I love his ability to compete. I love his ability to promote, create jobs, opportunity, wealth. I think it is a big problem in the Democratic party. And we do not do enough to make this fundamental point, you know, that that you cannot be pro job and anti- business period. >> And we need to say that and we need to demonstrate that. Look, it drove me crazy. Half my friends were up there, like maybe not even half, a lot more than half were up there with Donald Trump when he got sworn in. And the symbolism of that was he's got the back and they have his back of entrepreneurs uh and dream makers in this country. >> Yeah. And I thought, Jesus, I mean, just that alone, where the hell was my party? Why aren't we making a case for entrepreneurs and and business leaders? >> Do you respect Elon? >> I I've long respect him. But he's changed in the last seven, eight years. He just has. And I say that with so many mutual friends universally saying that. In fact, I was one of the last to come around. I'm like, "No, he's all right." Even after he left, quote unquote, Tesla left, which they never did. They didn't change. They didn't move a job. They just changed the corporate headquarters. He came back a few months later. You can go online and you can see a press conference I had when he moved his world R&D headquarters back to California and I praised Elon. And that wasn't that long ago. That was after quote unquote he left the state of California. But he's different now. Something's changed. And u and now of course that's been exposed across the spectrum. It's not just from a prism of left and right. But I've long admired him. He created this entire market and he's 100% right about this big beautiful bill. He's 100% right that we're doubling down on stupid and we're investing in the past as the rest of the world is leaping forward. China's going to clean our clock as it relates
to electric vehicles. They're going to clean our clock in terms of the future and dominate it because of some of what Donald Trump has just done and rolling back progress that was made over the last uh decade or so, particularly as it relates to what just occurred with the IRA and notably with the infrastructure bill that the the president of the United States previous president passed. So I agree with him on a lot of things but uh some character issues that I that I question. >> I use his name I guess because he's now so influential in this country but he's also like a figurehead of like a certain you know of entrepreneurship and innovation. So he's and now he owns X as well. So the platform's so big under if you are ever to become president what's your attitude going to be towards entrepreneurs like him and how is that different to the democratic >> celebrate I rever their entrepreneurialism. We celebrate them. We celebrate their contributions. Again, we don't we don't I mean, I I just the idea that our party is branded by begrudging other people's success. It's devastating to I think the to the aspirations of what it means I so much of what it means to be an American in California is the dream. It's attached to this notion of social mobility that there's a limitlessness in terms of being and doing anything. And so my job as governor and my job in any position would be to create the conditions where people feel included, feel seen, where they can live their lives back what I said earlier out loud and we create the conditions where their success becomes inevitable or irresistible. And uh I think a lot of what leadership is is climate control, not in the sustainable sense. And it's no longer command and control. But what I concerned about now is the command and control of crony capitalism coming back into the United States of America because of Donald Trump. You got to kiss the ring. You don't kiss the ring, it's going to be punitive. You want an exemption on the tariffs, just make a call. Or rather, better yet, make a contribution. Maybe you make a contribution indirectly by buying some crypto. And that contribution then gets the benefit. Maybe you make a deal uh overseas on weapons and we'll take care of the golf
course. Maybe we'll take care of the new two towers uh for the family. That's what's happened under Trump in just six months to a degree never. It's unimaginable in the United States to see it at this scale in this this level. And uh and that's to me not free enterprise. Business takes me all over the world and I travel about 50 weeks a year. And up until recently, one of the challenges I continued to face was staying connected as soon as I landed somewhere new. The reality is I don't have time to wait around and sort out SIM cards while I'm on the go. So a few months ago I tried something called ALO for the first time and they are now a sponsor of today's episode. He is the world's first e SIM store. It's entirely digital. No SIM cards are needed at all and you can keep the same phone number you have now. It means that you can get reliable data in over 200 destinations with instant access to a digital e SIM card with a click of a button. When you buy your first ALO eSIM, you can get $3 off by using code DOAC3. For me, being able to land Switch on my phone and get back to work is gamechanging. And Airl makes this possible. Install ALO today to get $3 off your first ESIM with code DOAC3 at checkout. That's D OC3 when you download the ALO app. I've just invested millions into this and become a co-owner of the company. It's a company called Ketone IQ. And the story is quite interesting. I started talking about ketosis on this podcast and the fact that I'm very low carb, very, very low sugar, and my body produces ketones, which have made me incredibly focused, have improved my endurance, have improved my mood, and have made me more capable at doing what I do here. And because I was talking about it on the podcast, a couple of weeks later, these showed up on my desk in my HQ in London, these little shots. And oh my god, the impact this had on my ability to articulate myself, on my focus, on my workouts, on my mood, on stopping me crashing throughout the day was so profound that I reached out to the founders of the company and now I'm a co-owner of this business. I highly, highly recommend you look into this. I highly recommend you look at the science behind the product. If you want to try it for yourself, visit ketone.com/stephven
for 30% off your subscription order. And you'll also get a free gift with your second shipment. That's ketone.com/stephven. And I'm so honored that once again, a company I own can sponsor my podcast. Is the world safer now under Trump than it was under Biden? >> There's nuance to that. I don't think it's a binary safe. I mean, I think >> in terms of war and the probability of a World War II, are we >> I think it's more unpredictable than it's been. Um, I worry about nuclear proliferation. I worry about AI. >> Biden wasn't doing so well when I watched that debate and he was struggling over his words and couldn't couldn't be coherent with sentences. I did >> I was his chief surrogate that night. So, >> chief surrogate. >> Yeah. Meaning I was there representing the campaign to make >> Oh, so you were there >> uh for Yeah. >> I actually think I saw you afterwards doing interviews. I uh was doing my best to have uh and go home with a guy who brought you to the dance and um you know I um I was proud to support him. Uh but that was a that was a that was a difficult night. >> Did you realize in that was that the moment you realized that he wasn't >> right when he walked out on stage >> doing well. >> I was in the back. I'll never forget physically standing up as I was watching and going and I turned to my staff. I said something's off. Right when he walked on stage felt it. It was the only time I saw that was um at a fundraiser here that he had after he had no sleep and I just we all just literally assumed it was just jet lag and he had flown back and forth in over a week back and forth to Europe twice and he had a late night and um I thought boy he's just not on like and that was in private not just his public uh comments with President Obama that night. There was a lot of talk, rhetoric that there was an internal desire to overthrow him around that time because you could see on TV he was struggling and in the polls and Donald Trump was reveling in it. And then I heard this narrative coming up that, you know, Nancy Pelosi and the
Democratic party were having private conversations and telling him to step down and forcing him out. >> All cards on the table, 100% truth. Is there any truth in that? >> Yeah. No, a lot of that was happening. I mean, a lot of people were I mean, there was there was a phone tree that lit up that night. There was a text tree, phone tree, email uh just blew up >> saying >> people are in panic. Total fullfledged panic and and and there was a need and desire to know that he was okay and that this was momentary uh or discover there was something else maybe had a cold, maybe there's some other issue. And it led to those kind of conversations that many have been made public, many private, led to meetings with Democratic governors in the White House with the president uh around a table, >> including >> including me. Mr. President, tell us, you know, what's your path? How you feeling? Uh some honest back and forth with a few governors that challenged him a little bit more than one would have expected with sort of protocol within the party. Um and um yeah, a real desire obviously to turn the page and ultimately that manifested with a decision he made um and led to uh obviously our nominee her his vice president. >> He was effectively effectively pushed out of the party by pressure. >> Yeah. I mean >> because he wanted to continue. That was clear. He said that. >> Yeah. He believed he was the only one that could beat Donald Trump. >> Yeah. >> Having beat him once, he was convinced he could do it again. He believed that his record of the lowest black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment, lowest unemployment for women, the best economy in 60 years as it relates to jobs and GDP growth, uh, inflation that was cooling from 9.1 and was moving in the right direction with the chips and science act, with the infrastructure bill, the IRA, 400 bipartisan bills. He felt lowest uninsured rates. They felt like things directionally were moving despite the inflation scars and that he can make that case. He felt that. He really did feel that way. A lot of the narrative was that you were going to
step in potentially at last minute and that I know in your head you must have been mulling and thinking about going back and forward about different possibilities and outcomes. Things were moving so quickly and there was so such little time. I saw your name mentioned all the time associated with stepping in to replace him. >> No, I was but I was also the one that was out there still campaigning for him after everyone else had had turned his back. I just >> But you mustn't be in your head at night thinking >> I wasn't then. And I things could change. >> Uh you talked about what shaped me, those moments. Um when I say no daylight, when I say, you know, I got to make up for disappointing this guy and myself, when I'm in, I'm in. And I'll tell you, the coin of the realm in politics is loyalty. Period. Full stop. Willie Brown taught me that. Um and Joe Biden um um I was going to have his back. So I literally, I'm telling you, look me in the eye because I know it's cynical. did not think along those lines. after he dropped out those minutes later and my cell phone blew up. I confess that there were a number of people uh that uh wondered uh and I imagine uh you can you know there were there were plenty of people sort of circling go well maybe maybe the moment I >> once he dropped down >> I to be candid um I'm going to get in trouble for saying this because I haven't said it public I was a little angry I didn't get heads up >> you didn't get a heads up that gave me like a text two minutes cuz I I was embarrassed I was sitting with a group of people I was and I was like my phone rang I was like wow I saw was I was my first reaction honestly was like gez man all this stuff I did for this guy and not even a heads up and it and um first mis call true story I I didn't even know it was an unknown number I didn't even look at it for about six hours and it was >> she already made the call to me >> saying what >> just a voicemail love to talk so >> about what >> well she was running so it's uh you know and uh a few hours later I put out a
press release supporting her candidacy >> what should the Democratic party have done with the wisdom of hindsight Ight in that moment instead of just putting Camala straight in. >> All geniuses in hindsight. I don't know what you could have possibly done with just such a short runway. >> You had the vice president of the United States. You had the apparatus that was built within the party. You had the legal ability for her because it was the Biden Harris campaign to transfer a lot of that. Yeah. You had little time. You would have opened up to a circular firing squad as it relates to the party. In hindsight, it didn't work. What could you have done with the benefit of hindsight that might have worked? >> Yeah, I would have, could have, should have. I don't live in that. I think but but I live where we where we were exploring a moment ago and that is in reflection more broadly of where the party is less the individuals and I think that's our biggest mistake. We're so consumed by the individual >> identity politics. >> Yeah. But well issues related identity politics broadly but it's not just the person. Okay. >> It's who we represent. And there's a word we didn't use earlier, but you used it in relationship to Trump. Weakness versus strength. And I'll tell you, to me, at the core, the end of the day, to me, it's that distinction that perhaps says more things in more ways on more days about where our two parties are. Donald Trump exudes strangely strength. I think he's weakness masquerading as strength. Our party appears weak for many, too many. And I remember Bill Clinton after shellacking, we got crushed in a midterm and he said, 'Given the choice, Bill Clinton said, 'The American people always support strong and wrong versus weak and right. There's something about that. I think this notion of strength, I think it goes to young boys. I think it goes to Trump and Trumpism, what he sells, what he represents to people. I think in that distinction maybe is a pathway for our party. And my last question before I get to the book, which is the question left by our last guest, is um there's a there's a high probability, which which you know
I'm aware of, that I'm sat with the future president of the United States. There's a probability, you know, even if it's a 1% probability, it's an extraordinary opportunity to ask question. >> Yeah, even if it's a 1%, but I I looked at the the odds before I walked out, so I know it's higher. um under you if I took that Men in Black little pen thing that erases memory and I erase my memory of the Democratic Party and I erase the memory of the Democratic Party for all of my audience watching and you have a clean slate >> to redefine that party and we don't we don't remember or we don't reflect on the past and that party is coming up in 2028 against the Republican MAGAentric party maybe led by JD Vance. What is what is that proposition? I'm a young man, but not just for young men, for everybody. What is the proposition you're putting forward? What does it sound like? I >> And I don't want any of the political stuff coming. >> No, no, no. What does it sound like? >> And and and you can appreciate I hope that that I don't have the kind of answer that's worthy of that question. >> Mhm. >> Because it's a spectacular question. Yeah. >> And it's fundamentally the question that needs to be answered by whoever is running for president of the United States and it needs to be done. So congruently, it can't be to your point [ __ ] It can't be a pole tested focused group >> bunch of words and pabum. What does your heart say? >> You have to feel it. >> In so many respects what you just what we just ended on. I think this notion of the dream, I think this notion of of I think there's something about why we're together that is sort of that the intersection of entrepreneurialism, aspiration, inspiration, growth, opportunity, inclusion that is that that begins to answer and flesh out or create an answer that fleshes out. Um, and it's in that space that I'm consumed. I'm consumed by contribution and service. this notion of service, communitarianism, this notion that we're all better off,
we're all better off. I think public service should be a requirement, um national service. Uh but it's in that space uh that ultimately I think um a a an answer uh will emerge. And there's lots of um it's funny because politics more and more I've learned about it is this battle between like rationality and logic and then just emotion and uh perception I guess. >> Exactly. Right. >> So you talked about some of the great things the Democratic party have done. But it's it's crazy how the headlines will be dominated by some issue around quote unquote woke ideology. >> 100%. >> And it almost becomes the case that people care. They're more emotionally compelled by this idea that their kids in schools are being t taught something. that is corrupting their mind versus how the economy is doing or jobs. >> I know. And it was it was it's and I think we struggled to recognize that. >> How do you recognize that >> they were shapeshifting CRT, ESG, DAI, anything with three letters. I mean, we were on our heels. We were on the receiving end of all this. We're constantly on the defense. We got I love what President Obama just said. He said, "We got to get more aggressive. Get on the offense. I've been saying this for years." >> What does that mean? >> Meaning, we've got to shape the narrative. Illusion rules. Facts don't matter. You got these propaganda networks weaponizing grievance 24/7 and we're constantly responding uh to these these these these culture wars. And let me be specific on that. I think you know the the governor of Utah said it best. Never has so much attention been focused on so few as it relates to the issue of trans athletes. He's 100% right. But there's also truism and it's part of, you know, part of being in business. You're nothing but a mirror of your consistent thoughts. Whatever you focus on, you're going to find more of. And so if 247 that's all that's coming from you, California this like California crackup, everyone's leaving worst place to do everything else. You start to believe it. You start starts to shape your conversation. Then you start finding proof points. Oh, there's an enomous encampment. Oh, I just read
about this crime down at the Walmart and it's just it everyone's leaving because what because Elon left everyone. So I I think narrative matters to your point. Trump understands that better than anybody. Mhm. >> He repeats things over and in the you know the vernacular of my buddy Marshon Lynch and over and over and over and over and over and over over again. So I think flooding the zone in that respect you are a master at it. I mean dealing with Jesus seriously I mean of all people should hire you my friend uh that understand data and analytics communication how to target um broader message values brand strength um and how to sell. You got to sell. I mean, we sitting there talking about the chips and science act. No one knows what the hell you're even talking about. We didn't sell what we were delivering. >> I think we have to brand it. >> Yeah. And we and it's also look part of the answer to the question you asked earlier. It's also and you know Ezra Klein's talking about but abundance mindset. We've had this scarcity mindset, this sort of zero sum mindset. And as an entrepreneur, you don't have a scarcity mindset. And I think as part of the bar brand building of our party, it's not just in terms of housing and issues related to what Ezra speaks in terms of abundance mindset, but it's that growth abundance mindset. And I think that's part of when I talk about the dream. I'm also saying this, by the way, from the prison that no other governor can lay claim. You have the American dream and you have the California dream. There's no other state that's attached to a dream. And I think there's something evocative in that because that that inspires a journey that we can be on, a journey that we can go on together. And so I'm I'm captured by the vernacular of the 60s and Bobby Kennedy was my political hero. Sar Shrivever and Kennedy, everything about that, solving for ignorance and poverty and disease and and this notion of going on a journey together. That was what the moon was all about. And and we can see ourselves on that journey. right now, you know, is a blue versus the red team. Uh this is a war that within in this country and I think whoever runs in the next four years or three years, um it's
about stitching this back together and and going on a journey together. Uh because as I say all the time, divorce is not an option. >> There's just two other things that sprung to mind as you're talking is I've always wondered in California, specifically in LA, I told you I moved here. I just moved into my place yesterday, in fact. Um, I was in a CVS, I think it was, and I was trying to get some toothpaste. >> Horrible, right? >> Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I said to the team, this was like six months ago, I was like, I went to a CVS to get some toothpaste, >> and I got to the toothpaste and it's in a cage. >> And I said to the lady there, I was like, why is the toothpaste in a cage? And she she goes, "Look." And she points down the aisle and there was a gentleman um a homeless gentleman who was stuffing things in his sock. >> Yeah. >> And I thought, "Fucking hell." Like, >> yeah, >> if I look over there, there's these mansions in the hills. And if I'm in the CVS, the toothpaste is in a cage because the homeless people are stuffing things into their socks. >> Yeah. >> Is that fixable? >> Yes. >> And what caused it? >> Well, and then now you're dealing with larger systemic issues that that go back decades and decades and the has have nots and and that goes to >> drug addiction. >> Yeah. and the broad I mean the specific issues around homelessness and that gets to deeper issues about mental health behavioral health issues affordability housing crisis but look >> is it fixable >> yes by definition >> why doesn't no one fix it >> it's being fixed and progress is literally being made we're seeing significant reductions backto-back years in crime we're seeing significant reductions in organized retail theft seeing significant reductions including just here in LA and they announced 17 and a half% decline over two years in the number of people out in the streets and sidewalks and unsheltered homeless
that was literally announced yesterday by the mayor. So, there is progress in all these cases. So, absolutely, >> you're getting more radical on this point as well because I I saw the announcement you made and I watched very closely a couple years ago when you announced that you're going to have to get these encampments off the street. >> I'm done with it. It's exhausting. Clean them up. It's the job of a mayor. My job as mayor, former mayor of San Francisco. Uh do your job. Clean them up. Get people off the street. There's nothing there. Stepping over people on the streets and sidewalks is not compassion. And so we have flooded the zones in terms of support and resources. Now it's about performance. >> And I I have the great honor of working with Prince William in the UK on a in a home homelessness initiative. So I know the complexities of it. And some people think of it as just a housing issue. But having spent time with people at risk of homelessness, I know it's a confidence issue. It's a mental health issue. It's a jobs issue. It's a pathways into employment issue. It's a very very complicated issue. So that's actually blown my mind. home would have in terms of >> I mean I say it all the time shelters solve sleep housing and supportive services solve homelessness. You've got to deal with the underlying reasons people are out on the streets and sidewalks in the first place. And so it's about this comprehensive integr integration of care, whole person care as we describe it. We've just gone through the most significant mental health reforms in US history. We have flooded the zone with more support. 26,000 new units of behavioral health housing we are producing and procuring in the state of California in real time with zoning reforms so we can site them workforce development reforms and we're reorganizing the integration around mental health and the silos and people with drug and alcohol addictions and the integration uh and this is the source to me of so much of my real passion in terms of my day job and and you're going to see real progress in the state >> well I did do some research beforehand and I can see that there's some really significant actions taken and they are nuanced and complex in their solution.
So that's very very encouraging and it's encouraging to meet someone who understands the complexities of this problem because actually the narrative that will win out in an election cycle is going to be emotional. It's going to be simple >> and so I think everybody should look out for emotional and simple answers and exclude them whenever you hear them. Um, last question before I ask you this one is, um, all the headlines at the moment are about Jeffrey Epstein. >> And, uh, the way that that's been handled really is the thing that I find so fascinating because on the way into the presidential office and into those some those big roles, there were certain promises made about the Epstein files and it would be released and if you vote for me, then I will release these files. And now there's nothing to see. >> Yeah. >> What what what happened there? >> Well, they lied. They they lied to you then or they lying to you now. Period. Someone lied about this. They dangled this in order to get votes and they lied to people. They use people. And um and someone needs to be held to account. And and look, I you know, I can be cynical about it. I can be very political about it and say it's interesting when Elon, we brought up Elon, when Elon Musk tweets something out saying Trump's on the list and a few days later there is no list. You can be cynical about that. It leads to some open-ended questions. >> What would you have done if you were Trump in that situation? So, say that you you'd been elected and the public are demanding to see this list. What would you have done? >> Well, one thing is obvious. I I know Pam Bondi well, uh, the attorney general. Um, we known each other over the years. She doesn't move without Trump. If she's fired, she's the fall person because there's no question she was directed by Trump to say what she said. She would not have period, full stop, done something independent of the president on the Epstein files. >> So Trump is the person that's >> So one has to acknowledge that. So then it begs additional questions. Why was she told not to release the files unless a there's no files and they made it up the entire damn time just like they made
up Obama's birth certificate just like they make up most things most days. my humble position. I think that's very plausible. It could be very simple. It could be as simple as that. >> They started the conspiracy up. They started. They're covering their ass and they're just like, "Shit, we got caught. We We use this. We We sort of squeeze this out. We got everything we needed. We're in power." Or it's more insidious than that. And look, the one thing is just not even there. There's It's just simple truth. Epste and Trump were close. They were wasn't just a few photographs. They were close. That's a fact. Sorry, Donald. Just a fact. So, look, I get why this outrages folks. I think it's interesting. It's outraged some of the core base. Um I I I enjoy the hell out of it. I'm just I spoke that was my private voice out loud as a Democrat. And um yeah, and I hope our party jins this up much more. >> If you get into office, people are going to say release the list. I mean, if there's commit to release your list or what unless there's some national security secret here or something and I know that leads to speculation about MSAD and other speculation about was he on a foreign intelligence list and is there real implications to our national security? Why did he make all his money? I mean, I I've got enough problems with homelessness and housing in California worry about Jeffrey Epstein. But hey, they created this mess. Now they got to clean it up. Governor, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for. >> Good. >> And the question left for you >> is what is it? >> Have you received a sign from beyond >> a That's good. In the spirit of Epstein and sort of conspiracies, I immediately go to >> uh yeah, look um I don't know about that, but I there's a spiritual aspect to me. meaning I I I'm a person of faith. I grew up in the church, went to a Jesuit university. I quote the Bible often, many parts, one body. So, I feel that connection to something bigger than myself. If for no other reason than I'm desperate for
it, >> the person who wrote the question, I'll tell you, to give you a little bit of a clue, they're referring to a a late loved one that passed away. >> More specific. >> Yes. >> Fascinating. I've never You feel You feel people's presence when you hear a song. You feel people's presence when you you know during season of the year and you know I I I will say all right I will say you've got me um and uh this was uncanny. My father passed away in his house in s in San Francisco. I came after in this case and there was no assisted suicide but I came right after um and visited him on right outside the window was a paragrine falcon. Can't make this up. My father was passionate about paragine falconers. I've never seen a parag I've grew up in San Francisco in my life was a paragine falcon right on the balcony right after his death. My sister and I looked at each other. So, you can't think that was the sign. True story. There's my answer. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. I am I'm really encouraged by the example you're setting for so many reasons. Um, and I the reason one of the biggest reasons that I'm super encouraged by the example you're setting is because you're doing what I've wished for so long so many people in your position, your political position would do, which is to speak to the other side, but also to get out there and to have conversations like this in this new medium of podcasting that is unfiltered, uncensored, and is long form. And I just I always longed to see that from the Democratic Party, but they've hidden behind PR and sanitized messaging for so long. And you're bucking the trend. I was so happy when you sat down with Charlie Kirk because those are the conversations I want to see. And actually, you being in the same room made me both realize that there's a lot you have in common and also allowed me to compare the fundamental differences um in person, but also um it's so wonderful to get to know you as a man and where you come from. I appreciate >> because I because now I now I understand I understand your motivations. I
understand the decisions that I think you'd make, you know, going forward as president and um it feels like a great honor for you to have given me this time, but also as I said for your team not to tell me you can't talk about this, you can't talk about that and just to let me talk about whatever I wanted to talk about. So um thank you so much and um thank you for having me in your your home state now of of California. I guess I'm a kind of a half semi-resident or something and um yeah, I'm going to be watching with uh with much um curiosity to see how it plays out and you you present a new vision for America. I highly recommend everybody goes and checks out your podcast as well. I'm going to link it on the screen and below. This is Gavin Newsome where you do exactly that. You sit with people and have these conversations that are so unfortunately rare um with people you often disagree with. It's a fantastic show and it always has me absolutely hooked. and um your book here as well I'm going to recommend because it really shaped how I think about your philosophy. Um it's called Citizenville um how to take the town square digital and reinvent government which talks a lot about social media and the role it plays. Thank you so much Gavin. It's been an honor. >> My honor really grateful. >> Thank you so much for the time. Appreciate it. >> This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So, could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback. We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. [Music] Heat. Heat. N. [Music] [Music]