Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpN_AcIy3m4
is that the noise that's the noise that's the noise Jam's got a much more subtle than Brian's [ __ ] monkey noises hey everybody what the [ __ ] going on how you living huh this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Blue Apron Blue Apron has been responsible for at least three meals that I have every week now and uh other folks in my house eat it too Blue Apron is this new deal and this is what they do they send you all the ingredients in the exact portions for excellent meals along with detailed instructions recipe instructions with photographs so it's like totally idiot proof um I've I've cooked a bunch of different stuff now um I made these awesome chicken skewers the other day and these um stuffed peppers and they were like a a spicy Pepper too it's like this bell pepper but it was kind of spicy really good like interesting Mexican ingredients in it so what I'm what I'm getting at is they're not it's not bland food it's healthy they they range between 500 and 700 calories per serving but you would not guess that you would think that it'd probably be more than that they're really welld designed and they're done by excellent chefs and uh you know really nutritionally sound too very healthy and shipping is free and I I'm a big fan of this I really love it short rib Burgers on pretzel buns kungpow chicken tacos you can try it out your first two meals for free by going to blueapron.com Rogan that's blueapron.com Rogan for your first two meals for free like I'm going to give you some examples um Mexican style turkey burgers cod with pickled grapes and summer suckatash shaking beef with Jasmine lime rice I don't know what shaking beef is but I bet it's [ __ ] delicious chicken with candied pistachios and snow pea radish sauté really good stuff like interesting stuff Indian style salmon with tomato chutney and cranberry bean stew almost like something Steve ranella might cook on meat eater ladies and gentlemen it's great stuff and like I said first two meals for free give it a shot blueapron.com Rogan uh I stand by them I use it every week I actually got uh they gave me a phone call today uh that I uh got one that's uh at my box today so um uh I'll be uh eating some
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yours um and they have no termination fees no contracts all the [ __ ] that's usually connected to cell phones they don't have any of that with Ting what Ting does is they decided to rent time on the Sprint backbone so you're using Sprint service but they do it their way and their way is definitely going to save you money 98% of people would save money with Ting I use Ting Ting is the official cell phone of this podcast I just got my newest one recently and it is uh I [ __ ] love it it's the Samsung Galaxy S4 it's a little small longer than the one you got is this one right here yep what do you got the note yeah and my and my new meundies look good on there man the note is pretty dope but what I like about this is it has a built-in um a built-in um uh heart monitor right there it's a pulse detector finds out what your heart rate is that put your finger on there put your finger on there and it has apps that go along with it they and it's also waterproof that's one of the reasons why I got or water resistance I should say they don't see this little tab this tab shuts down and boom and that's was sent to me by this is the official cell phone of The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast um what they do is they Char this is one of the reasons why you save money is a lot of companies like if you um if you get a plan like you get 100 minutes a month if you use 80 of those minutes you don't get any credit for those 20 minutes if you use 120 Minutes they charge you extra you get like an overage fee Ting has none of that you only use what you pay for and 98% of people would save money with Ting that's a real figure I have had no one who has used Ting that has not told me it's a way better service as far as like saving money and again you're using Sprint so it's not like some Rinky Dink cell phone service where you're not going to get good coverage $21 is the average monthly bill per device for ting customers and they have if you go to the shop uh at rogan.com there are all sorts of different cell phones to choose from from the really cheap you can get like a a wonky ass little tiny smartphone like the HTC Evo 4G it's 49 bucks you can even get a a flip phone they still sell flip phones Samsung uh M400 72 bucks little flip phone or you can get a an Apple iPhone and they have the full
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weather so when we go on this trip we could either just get we could either have the worst time or the best time depending you know I mean just depending on the weather it can be so just uncomfortable and miserable or it can be just beautiful and there's places back in there on you know Prince's island is huge it's the but I think by some definitions either the second or it's either the third or fourth biggest island we have what's interesting about it that island is it has you know half the surf I think it's half the surface area as Hawaii the big island in Hawaii but has like three times the coastline whoa just you know just a crazy like fjords and inlets and Bays but there are places in this island that you you can't really there's no Road system in a lot in a lot in a lot of it and there's places you can't fly to because there's no Lakes to land and it's really hard to walk there so sometimes you're looking at there's mountains there and you're like I guarantee that no one you know you can't guarantee but I mean like for a 100 years it's probably no one has stepped foot on that thing cuz you really had we'd have to get to one place and you'd have to get a boat and carry it through and go across to another place and then climb up well it be mostly just climbing like you just when you if you fly over some of those mountain tops and you look around them there's just no way I I just know that no one's been there unless you can land unless you can land up there on a lake you know we'll land on we'll land in a spot and I want to just walk from there and I think we will walk up into stuff that that people haven't walked there I mean there's always some crazy thing you didn't know about but we're going to walk into some stuff where people just have not walked wow you know you can stand around places there and say I like you know I feel very certain that I'm like definitely the first guy to ever have his feet sitting right here I can't discount something that happened you know hundreds and hundreds of years ago but there's just some wild stuff in there wow it's it's a you know right now I got mixed feelings about it I too but they just the forest service up there just announced they're going to be uh opening up a cut up there 6,000 Acres of
old growth wow for clearcuts yeah wow that's kind of [ __ ] up dude I understand every single I I understand every single argument for and against I understand every single argument what's for what's the good aspect of it economics I mean like you used to have a thriving logging industry based around tongas you know tongas National Forest so and it's just atrophied right so it's a job creation thing you know I mean that that's the four the four is just people that live there having access to like a good paying job the side is we have just a minuscule fraction of old growth left you know yeah just I don't see why anybody would allow that I mean I I understand the economic thing but I I always feel like there's got to be another way to make money what's weird too is Tong has just said recently that over the next decade they're looking to phase out old growth logging at the same time that they are announcing and pushing forth plans to do a big 6,000 acre clear cut so they're sort of acknowledging on one hand they they want to get out of it or need to get out of it or can see into the future they need to get out of it and on the other hand being like but we'll have one last hurah I guess one last party and you're dealing with how old do you think these trees are well I mean these you know there's I can't speak specifically to that particular area but I mean there's like Doug Furs that are much older than than the birth of this nation out there in Cedars I mean you know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old giantes [ __ ] up to chop them down and and make what you know it's sad man but you know like everything gets so weirdly we've talked about this before on the show how how things get so convoluted like one of the big just to bring it back to us going on a hunt for sick of Blacktail deer like those sick of Blacktail deer when we're going to look for him we're going to be looking for him up in the Alpine which they'll be leaving so they'll be leaving around the time we're going there that stuff still has snow like where we're goingon to be looking for deer will still have snow in June okay then it melts off and there's long days and it turns like beautiful and it gets very vibrant and green and there's all kinds of succulents and deer come up out of the
Timber to feed around in there and then in October it snows so you have like a couple snowf free months in October it snows and those deer will all split traditionally what those deer want to do is they want to go down and spend the winter down in Old growth because the old growth canopy allows for kind of a you know a snowf free sheltered understory where they're you know down on the down in the ground and they'll hang out in that old growth Timber so an argument against the cut would be that we need it for deer and a further argument would be the reason we need to protect deer habitat is because we need to protect the Wolves out there and some people right now are trying to make a push to say that the wolves in the Alexander archipelago of which Prince of Wales island is a part that those wolves are genetically extinct and they therefore deserve a level of protection like their own level of protection that they would get Endangered Species Act protection out on these islands when other people are arguing it's just the same Wolf Man I mean it's like you got wolves all over it does like that population doesn't deserve any specific thing so it winds up being that people who might be pushing against the timber sail might wind up also be angling for protecting wolves out there from hunting and trapping and then you're left to be like well I'm not really comfortable the timber sale but I'm not really comfortable with you using biological lumping and splitting in order to like close down certain sorts of hunting season so it winds up being that all your friends aren't NE you know like the enemies of your enemies aren't necessarily your friends wow how comp wildlife management is very complic wild so anyways we're going into that area and we're gonna hunt some Blacktail deer and there's a health there's a good healthy population you know it's still good even a non resident you're allowed two bucks and do they um do they have bear up there is it black bear yeah but the thing about the bear is you'll see some bear droppings or bear scatter or bear [ __ ] here and there but those Bears out there are so tuned in on the salmon runs that they really don't spend a lot of time um I think some move through but they really don't spend a lot of time
feeding in those areas because they're down 2,000 ft Timberline are is like 1,800 2,000 ft they're down 2,000 ft lower in the river miles feeding on salmon and we and we like to have you know that image of the bear grabbing a salmon out and he's all silver and shiny and healthy and floppy but long after the runs are kind of done they're down there just they're down there just feeding on Rotten fish laying around I've W I've watched wolves there eating dead S I watched five wolves one time eating dead salmon that were the consistency of pudding wa just mopping it up they must have unbelievable stomach back oh man you can't imagine so um there's not a lot of bears up there you know there's a lot of you see some berries around but I think that so many of the Bears are focused on that stuff one thing you find some people say in in those islands in Southeast Alaska these are like they tend to be either a black bear island or a Grizzly Island and it just and it changes so you be on one Island and it's black bears another Island it's Grizzlies and it's sort of this weird phenomenon that they don't readily mix you get in interior areas on the mainland where you have Grizzlies and black bears coexist often times the Grizzlies will dominate the salmon streams and you'll have more black bears up high so you could be standing on a mountain a couple thousand feet above sea level and it's just black bears everywhere on top of the mountain feeding on blueberries and you're looking down at Primo salmon streams but just big brown bears big Grizzlies down there and they kind of hoard the spot and the black bears don't get in there they just can't you know they're kind of enemies yeah they'll eat them too right Grizzlies yeah the uh the place that I was up in um Alberta when we went bear hunting they take uh carcasses after they you know cut the backstraps off and the hams they'll take like the body cavity and they they leave it in certain areas where they know Grizzlies are to keep the Grizzlies coming to that right yeah because they don't want the Grizzlies coming to the um the other uh baits the baits they have out for the black Paar because they do they have to abandon that bait because it's just too
sketchy they have some photos some track camera trap photos of these [ __ ] enormous Grizzlies wandering just speeding up on black bears yeah I got a buddy who saw one time he witnessed a Grizzly kill a black bear disembowel it and eat its liver whoa yeah and there's a there's a very well-regarded hunting guy in Alaska who's written some good hunting books about Alaska named Tony Russ and I was reading his book on Hunting Kodiak or he's got he's got a book on Hunting brown bears and Grizzlies in Alaska and a lot of his experiences around Kodiak and the Alaska Peninsula and he was saying he's never seen and and just to back up for a minute on Kodiak a like if you map out a bear's diet okay a bear a boore bear a male brown bear or Grizzly you know brown bear on Kodiak if you map out his annual diet what he's tuned into in the spring are brown bear cubs yeah males right he's like wakes up and he's hunting brownberry Cubs and that's it's a sign significant part of his diet but what Tony Ross has said all of his years of guiding he's never seen where when you kill a big mature bore brown bear he's never seen where another brown bear will come and scavenge that carcass wow they'll SC they they even with the things skinned out and butchered right they recognize through smell or whatever they will not mess with that thing that's weird that's what he says and this guy seen oh yeah and this guy's seen a lot but he was saying nothing will touch those big BS the body on them too scared of them they just I don't know even with I something about them the smell or something they just know that they don't want anything to do with it wow when we were in uh Alberta one of the guys shot a bear late at night and they didn't want to retrieve it because there was too many bears in the area it was just getting sketchy they they shot the bear like right at the moment where it was getting dark out and the bear ran off and they they just said we'll come back in the morning so they came back in the morning and a big boar was eating the other black bear oh really so they had they were taking selfies like smiling while there there was a be behind them eating a bear carcass that happened to a buddy of mine where he got one and Trail he shot one with his bow and tracked at the
morning and it had it was just gone had been consumed so crazy yeah yeah that's that's the wild man when we were up there one of the Bears one of the Boors had uh attacked a sa killed its cub and left half the Cub's body and then the S came back and finished it off she ate her own baby really yeah she ate her own baby in front of them while they were in the in the St I've heard competing theories about that that on one hand the bore just is doing it because he wants to eat but there seems to be this upside where this an additional upside besides chloric intake that a boar will kill aa's Cubs and she'll come back into estris yeah so when AA like aa's gonna she'll have her her Cubs in the den in February or March okay they're just little hairess she don't even know if she had them probably just these hairless little things and she'll take care of them she'll emerge from her Den with these little fur balls she'll stay with them all summer long she'll Den with them again she'll come out again and usually at some point that summer she might get rid of them and so she's going to be off like she won't cycle again potentially for two years so if a boar has in his area he hangs out he's got a half dozen females apparently it's worth the risk to him that he might be I'm talking in a genetic sense it's worth the risk to him that he might be killing his own offspring which he probably has no idea whether it is or not kill his own offspring Offspring in order to to have that female go back into estris and then breed her wow or whatever kind of calculation he's probably not M obviously he's not making that calculation he's probably just going like I'm hungry but a added benefit of it is apparently he get he might double back around and you know and get her again make love to the woman who children he consumed well Dolphins actually have a strategy against that because one of the things that a lot of people are not aware we think of dolphins as being really sweet and kind and they're nice to people but Dolphins they eat their own babies I didn't know that they don't eat their own babies but they eat dolphin babies and when a male dolphin
finds a female that he has never had sex with and she has babies they'll often times kill the babies and they'll kill the babies to force the woman to back to breeding again because she'll go on a seven-year cycle so when a female dolphin has a baby she will not breed again for seven years while that baby is being raised and and growing old yeah they put a huge investment apparently so the strategy for female dolphins is they are [ __ ] and they [ __ ] as many dolphins as they can so that when the male comes around and he sees her with the baby he's like that might be my [ __ ] kid all right I'm not going to kill that kid cuz that's what keeps them from killing the the the females babies which really what because they're thinking I mean they're really intelligent animals they have a cerebral cortex it's 40% larger than a human beings and a matter of fact anybody who's listening to this check out Radio Lab Radio Lab has an amazing podcast the one that's on out this week is called hello and it's all about John Lily and John Lily's work with inter species communication with okay you know who John Lily was he was a no no I don't know that name maniac crazy man and uh these other scientists that worked with him actually wound up taking his research and bringing it to some new place because Lily uh he was also the inventor of the isolation tank he created a sensory deprivation tank because he was he was a Pioneer which you're a fan of right huge fan um Lily uh would take acid and set up a tank next to the Dolphins and he would take acid go in the isolation tank and try to communicate with the dolphins so while the Dolphins were like make all these weird noises he would like try to decipher those while he was on acid in his tank and he eventually went off the deep end with like really getting like heavily heavily into ketamine and all these weird tranquilizers and drugs and became actually addicted to ketamine and that's when he lost all his funding nobody wanted to have anything to do with it when it came to this Dolphin Research anymore because they knew that he was doing that and one of the women that he had hired to um live with a dolphin they had like an apartment set up where it was underwater like it was essentially to her it was like waste high in water
and she had a dolphin that she lived with for like 6 months in this and she wound up like jerking the dolphin off is that right because the dolphin would like hump her leg all the time and it' be really distracting cuz he was a young dolphin so she's look I'm going just take care of that for you and she would just jerk this dolphin off and then you know to her it was like look he's got an issue and it's getting in the way of work so I'll just take care of that but everybody else is like whoa whoa whoa whoa you're doing scientific research by jerking off dolphins like okay yeah I can see that she might need a couple minutes to explain herself man but the the the podcast sort of focuses on Dolphin communication and their their the difficulty that they have like they know that the Dolphins want to communicate with them but they have that blo hole and that's how they make their noise so it's really hard for them to make noises that mimic human noises CU they don't really have the ability to make M's and T's and all completely different apparatus so in the in the podcast you hear her talking to the dolphin and the dolphin trying to imitate what she's saying it's crazy is right it's amazing you get into like when you get into animal communication so much of it becomes semantical or or an argument of semantics where you'd say like well we're the only thing with language and people be like well you know actually X Y and Z has something okay what I mean we're the only thing with complex language you B well you know some animals are actually able to convey you know fairly complex things like that there's you know a predator above us and they're like well what I mean is they they don't have syntax right you know and you kind of like wind up running out it's like the verdict still out man there's some like animals do convey some complicated stuff and my two brothers are ecologists you know like PhD scientists and and they kind of hate the conversation you know because they they really resist not resistant to but they have a hard time with trying to use our terminology and use our language to describe what animals are up to right you know like to say for for you to say that the dolphin eats the ba or doesn't want to eat the baby
because it might be his baby someone might argue that that animal probably has no comprehension of that or even that they are not able to equate sex with reproduction hm they're so intelligent though I don't know how they wouldn't be able to equate I don't I don't either I don't think they strugg this all I really should have said killed they kill them I don't I don't think they eat them they might they're really but they kill them they bite them you know I struggle with this stuff all the time because you know as a hunter I'm always weighing out like what is it like what are the things that we're after and what are their capabilities you know I don't want to fall into some trap where I just act like oh it's just like corn with legs you know so I do I am curious all the time about you like the the capabilities of animals and I tend to be open to the idea that there's there's like different sets of experiences that different animals have you know do some have more perhaps more of an awareness than others yeah you know there's like a there's a hierarchy if you will and I think that the consensus is that dolphins are pretty high on that hierarchy yeah dolphins and orcas of course orcas are very high up on that they and they eat dolphins that's what's really [ __ ] up you know I've been going through this with my kid man he um we just mve to the Pacific Northwest and so I keep talking to my kid about everything's got a killer whale on it you know like like stores grocery stores whatever just like a common Motif and um I kep tell them that's a killer whale it's a killer whale and I know that a lot of people like to call him orcas you know and orc is some Greek word I think just means satian just means whale it's a pretty generic term and some people say that killer whale killer whales used to be called whale Killers yeah and whale killer became killer whale so I'm always telling my kid oh it's killer whale and one day my kid comes home and he's just mad in hell because he learned that it's not a killer whale it's a Orca you know and I'm like listen man I know what like I know what the person who told you that is trying to tell you and I already know
that but I told you killer whale not because I wasn't aware because I was trying to circumvent you know I was trying to do to come back around against what you would inevitably learn about its PC name oh I see you know you were like like it wasn't that I didn't know I was just trying to fill you up with just to open you to the idea that that there's the animals get new names all the time and it's just a PC it's like a it's like a um what do you call it's like a marketing term yeah more because of marketing term whale whale I mean it's not a whale it's a tooth whale is it yeah but the Dolphin's a tooth whale too because it's a cousin I see what you're saying I thought pardon me I thought you were saying that some wasn't a mammal or something oh oh no it's it's a it's a cousin of a dolphin right you know I don't know like taxonomically where is it at yeah i' be I'd be curious I'm pretty sure be curious to know yeah because I'm pretty sure there's a crazy video of one kill they're killing a whale while it's alive these killer whales are that's how most killing happens yeah but I mean it's it's a I should say they're eating it while it's alive they're biting chunks of its face off and it's just so hard to watch because we think of these whales as being these beautiful creatures and we think of I don't know why we have this weird idea of killer whales as being like these really Noble creatures you know cuz I always think of killer whales as being like the friend of man and that's why when one does freak out at SeaWorld it makes SeaWorld look so horrible because in the wild there's almost no evidence whatsoever that whales have ever killed anybody yeah but he's probably after a while he's like what am I supposed to kill then yeah well yeah exactly exactly I mean whale well and the instincts that they have you know I was the way I was equated one of the things I have a problem with zoos in general is that they don't allow animals to do their natural thing I really think that what zoo should be is get all those [ __ ] together you should have a giant piece of land if you're going to fence it in let them in there and let them run wild and if people really want to see animals what they should see is Jaguars killing monkeys and the the whole gamut and it
sounds [ __ ] up but that's really what the wild is cuz what we're doing by taking these animals and putting them in these weird cages is we're creating these closed in ecosystems where these animals never have to compete their food is given to them and we're ruining their genetics I mean those animals that are in zoos they're completely incapable of ever being reintroduced into the wild unless you take them and it would have to be some really exhausting effort to try to reintroduce them to the idea of hunting their own food or C Gathering their own food but those [ __ ] dummies that you have in the zoo you've created these welfare monkeys you know these monkeys that just I shouldn't say welfare I should say like they're pets they're like dogs it's like expecting your dog to figure out how to go hunting when he's just sitting there wagging his tail waiting for you to open up a can of Alpo they they don't know any better but what zoo is using their defense and you know some people we've kind of gotten away from a lot of people have gotten away from aesthetically sort of like the bear in the cage kind of display but what zarai is able to use in their defense is that with cases like the panda FL a panther they have they're a genetic Reserve so maybe they're not um maybe they're not ensuring Behavior they're not like protecting Behavior but they're at least protecting like the genetic Reserve yeah you know there's a good AR [ __ ] hit the fan for some species you have that and there's many many examples of things that you know of wild populations that have been supplemented through the zoo stuff but I know what you're saying like I I don't like I when I take my kid to a zoo I remember we were sitting there looking at this like I mean just a pathetic example of a of a grizzly bear I remember just kind of wanting to look at my son be like listen dude you're getting the wrong idea these things are badass normally you know yeah it's just kind of sad have you seen that show The Hunt that I told you about the one no no I didn't see it but I remember you talking about it pretty interesting I don't think it's I read about it after you showed it after you told me about it because the guy from Metallica was narrating it and then he got the their
band got punished and weren't allowed to play at a music festival they were trying to ban him for the music I don't think it it what what the [ __ ] is his name cuz he Nar a showfield right James yeah he's a good narrator it's interesting and he's a hunter he he hunts a lot and uh there's a photo of him with this [ __ ] giant bear holy [ __ ] I mean it's a perspective shot you know they always put the bear yeah getting way back yeah but but this [ __ ] bear is huge I mean it's like a 9ft bear it's enormous and it just the the shoulders on this [ __ ] thing and the head on this thing it's just just and he's standing in front of him people like oh my God disgusting evil what they don't understand is if you truly love bears you got to kill that bear because if you don't kill that bear that bear those big giant bears are responsible for decimating the population of cubs that's what they do and if you don't trim the big ones if you don't kill some of the big ones there's a photo of him with the bear I mean that is a [ __ ] big a giant yeah where was that was that Kodiak that's Kodiak yeah he shot one up there while he was doing that that show apparently I mean they are enormous en you're not you're not you might see like someone might see that you killed a big male bear and and be upset by it but you're really not impacting the bear population you know you're impacting that individual bear but you're not having any kind of real long-term deleterious effect on the Bears of that Island which are very you know it's a very stable well regulated population of bears out there I put in for that tag I think as a non-guided non-resident so like if you want to go with the guide you can go to Kodiak and hunt you know you can just go book a trip and go so you just have to pay them and they have a certain amount of tax they allocate like I don't know what it is you might pay 253 grand for the hunt it's interesting watch but a non-guided non-resident that's so I always put in for there's a very limited number of tags for non-guided non-resident which mean that I would have to go in lie of a guide I get a like because my brother's a resident of a Lab I don't need to use a guide when hunting animals that you normally need to guide to hunt so I can go with him and Hunt
there and so every other year they do a thing where you can apply for the spring hunt I always put in for that hunt and then when you told me about that show I was bummed because I was like now the odds of drawing that tag are probably going to for a long time go way way way down because there's probably going to be a ton of dudes putting in for the permit now yeah I could be wrong but I feel like it's going to increase interest and now I'm like trying to think of a new place to start putting in I've never killed a grizzly bear I I I want to I really want to one time well you also have a weird thing where you want a grizzly bear to scratch your chest and leave scars why would you say it meant a lot more to me when I was single that just seems like one of the worst requests ever like a a [ __ ] giant bear I mean what what is a a full grown Grizzly way what's the weight I mean there's a magical number to get thrown around lot is like when people run when people want to say that the bear was huge they say it was a th000 PBS right but those I guess are like if you put a lot of thousand PB Bears on a scale they're 800 lb okay they're 750 lbs 800 lbs you know again that Tony Russ guy that wrote those books I was talking about has uh he's had an immense amount of experience and he kind of has a passage in there where he talks about like the Thousand lb bear and there just aren't a lot of them out there as as much as you read people getting like 10 foot th000 PB Bears you you know you and I laughed about this before because everyone that sees a mountain line in the wild always says um big [ __ ] boar you know 200 lb boar I remember like I laughed cuz you saw a line you said it looked like a small one I was like you're the first guy I've ever met that saw a small Li I've seen two of them they were both around the same weight the first one I saw was like a dog size like 60 70 lbs and the SE second one it was a much quicker view of them but again I thought it was a coyote until I saw it tail and then I I noticed it had this big bouncy tail it was in Santa Barbara I was in monoco driving through a residential neighborhood and we're like my wife said it saw first she goes coyote and I go oh [ __ ] look at it tail
and we're like that's a mountain line it was like so it was like in that time we saw it in the headlights couldn't have been more than 70 lbs yeah that's your Discerning individual to not have seen a 200 lb Tom so there's a thlb bear but that like that bear we're just looking at is is a huge bear but I don't know what he weighs well did you see that video that's been going around lately of a bear that was walking around on two legs and people were saying is this Bigfoot is this what people are seeing because it's absolutely a black bear and this Bear Just for whatever reason de to get around he walked like a long distance on two legs like it's a crazy videoen pull that video up Jamie because it's the one in the neighborhood right yeah yeah yeah it's like walking in this like Suburban neighborhood and this [ __ ] bear is on two legs like a dude in a bear outfit like Yogi really yeah and I mean he walks 30 40 yards like this so if you were in the woods and you saw this bear doing that you'd be like I saw a [ __ ] Sasquatch I know what I saw especially if it was like dusk you know look at this bear look at him you go to be kidding me no check him out man pull it pull it from the beginning so we can see the whole thing like that the ABC News look at this oh yeah man I mean if you didn't know any better especially if it was thick woods and you saw that thing you would [ __ ] swear that that's you know what the the shots you're looking at right there are often about as long as you see a bear yeah look at him I mean look at that look at that that is [ __ ] crazy that's pretty wild that he likes to get around like that you would assume that that is a a monkey that's an ape that's a [ __ ] bear now does he have a normal gate when he does get down on all fours or is he screwed up somewhow no he was running oh he was you saw him run on all four it says his paws are injured oh his paws injured oh he might have got caught trap no no no not both Paws but look like his right paw looks like his right paw what state see in new I think New Jersey yeah I mean if he got caught a trap it's because someone illegally set I don't think that's I mean you can't trap bears in New Jersey but just the fact that a bear has that ability can you trap it all in New
Jersey I don't know what yeah there's some fur trapping there but I don't know to what extent but there's no bear trapping there but isn't it possible that he got caught in another animal's trap and that's how is still alive cuz he only there's no trap that would be used for fur bearing animals now that would [ __ ] that thing to the point where he would do that if he got caught in a in a foothold trap or leg hold trap he would pop his foot out of there really I mean I can't like I can't rule out everything if that's what happened to that bear and I have no reason to think that it is um if that's if like if someone came down and said absolutely that's what happened to that bear I'd be like then someone was doing like an an illegal trapping activity because that's not something that would happen is it much more likely because we're looking at a residential area that stood on something but I could put my I used to do this when I used to trap I used to do this all the time is you know I can snap my hand in most traps really yeah cuz the Trap has more of a function of I mean this is going to get all you're going to probably hear from all kinds of your listeners but it has a holding function so it starves him to death no not not if you're no because you're you're have to check your traps oh so you go there and it's still alive and then you have to kill it yeah so when I used to fur trap I would check my traps every 24 hours usually in the morning you know but anyways what the Trap largely serves to do is hold something and the way when you rig them if you do things right okay you rig them with a lot of swivels and things and so what you're trying to do is really limit any kind of damage to the animal and this isn't altruistic the reason you want to limit damage to the animal is the animal's less likely to fight the Trap okay if you have a trap that causes that causes like nerve damage bone damage numbing okay it's all the more chances that that thing is going to be working harder to get away and thinking is the the in the ideal case you're just trying to hold it with a foothold trap so it chew it way out does everybody they yeah people always say chew but what what they will do and I've you know I have I've seen it happen particularly with muskrats which have
very very thin bones there's one who only has one paw wonder what happened to him where's that I have no idea I just typed in bear trap Park Service what do you think happened there well that's that's too high on his leg to be a trap yeah so maybe that's a shot a gunshot or something like that he could have been he could have got shot he could have got shot he could have got hit by a car he could have got I mean you know I mean things we meet such weird ends and injuries I've seen bears that I'm fairly convinced on Prince Welles Island I've seen bears that I'm fairly convinced had been shot just because of the sort of like wear on the shoulder it happened you know right like it looked like someone just I just be like I could picture how that would happen I can't say that that didn't happen there but that would that's not a trap thing what I have seen with muskrats anyways muskrats have very very very thin bones and you'll see where you get muskrats it would in tra or par Lance they'll say it would ring out so it would just twist and get away you know oh okay so it just keeps spinning until get people say like a chew out but it's weird cuz people who you know people defending trapping will like to clarify it's not actually a chew off it's a ring off but they're still cutting their own arm off Yeah by spinning around until the tissue I never saw it I saw it on um muskrats I never saw it on larer animals I know I'm not not say that it doesn't happen but but again like like everything there's a there's a sort of there's good practices okay I don't trap anymore so I'm not I don't have like a when I when I tell you what I'm telling you I'm just telling you this from being a guy who likes to be clear about factual matters I'm not I don't have like a real dog in the race on this so to speak right now but when if you follow good practices on trapping okay you it's in your best interest to not have these sorts of things happen that you would set in a way that you don't have incidental catches or by catch right you check your traps on a very tight schedule you know you rig them in such a way that you don't cause damage that if you did get something else into your trap you would be able to release that thing unharmed but there
are people who for lack of caring and there are people who just for lack of technical expertise screw these things up you know and often times you could get violations like what would be like a trapping based violation from someone who wouldn't self-identify as a fur trapper but who just got mad about some bear or whatever getting into his dumpster and then he takes matters into his own hands completely outside of the law and decides to like fix that bear and and and expertly set a trap for it you know now there are be traps right those big traps you see in those movies that catch the bad guy in his leg and he's screaming ah yep those are real those are I mean there there used to be a lot of black bear trapping you know people used to trap blackbears all the time there used to be some grizzly trapping at a time people would trap them to sell fur they'd trap them to get them for you know scientific purposes they they trap them to just catch them for pets they' trap them to mitigate livestock risk you know there's a lot of trapping going on right now be trapping um isn't a thing that goes on like there's not like that's a bear trap right there yeah so yeah and what's funny now is there used to be a lot of bear traps antique bear traps on the market but people still manufacture what would what would be a bear trap in order to sell it as a like as a piece of me like a false memorabilia oh like a flint lock gun sell so there's a lot of guys that make re like reproductions of old bear traps that there's no like no one's like intending that they're going to go set it for a bear but people want to have like a lodge you know you got like your cabin and you want to have a big bear trap hanging up in it right so there's a lot of bear traps and you'll see where a dude will think he has something awesome you know and he's trying to sell it for a th000 bucks and you look at him be like I you go buy those all day long for $150 it just like it's not old you there's a a comedy club in town called The Improv in the front of the comedy club at one time they they've abandoned it but it was a barbecue place and the barbecue place they tried to make it like with old tools in the wall like an old saw like you know those wooden
handle on each side and you could look at it you're like I know that [ __ ] is 2 years old like I'm looking up it's all rusty and everything but I know this is not a [ __ ] antique they had uh one of those sickles that you know like the the death dealer that uh what do they call it Grim Reaper Grim Reaper is always supposed to have that was on the wall too like you're trying to make it like some Farm old timey old timey Wood Walls like a stained you know like a they made it look like it's old and weathered you know the wood which some of mean this is actually from a 100-year old farmhouse the wood that we have here this is reclaimed Oak this is from yeah it's it's I I specifically went out of the way to get old wood cuz I felt like it'd be kind of cool you know because it's probably some weird energy and some Old Farm wood this is like real old thick wood oh yeah no I like it I I have the me and my old man cut down he's dead now but when I was in high school he was building a pole barn and we cut down an oak on this piece of property we owned across the road from our house this a little corner lot and we cut down an oak he built the barn and I took that Oak the logs and I took them down and put them on a flatbed trailer and had him M into Lumber oh wow and took all that Lumber and years later he's been dead since I think 2002 2003 I still haven't finished this but then I laminated all those pieces together into like what looks like chunks of a bowling lane ah I'm still trying to make a damn desk out of these things oh wow it's like and I'm actively engaged right now and trying to move move one of these slabs from Mil City out to Washington now so I can continue my now 12 year long project of trying to turn me in the old man's tree so anyways I'm I'm a sentimentalist when it comes to Wood just like yourself oh that's cool so you're going to make it like a writing desk like where you do your writing I think so I think I'm going to make a WRA around desk yeah that's a great idea yeah but all the pieces I have together aren't as big as this desk we're sitting at but it's still a nice you know big chunk I have a desk that I bought in 1993 it's a writing desk and it's got two levels like one level it's a very it's old uh it's it's Oak you know but it's like
there was a place called the writer store and there was a store in Hollywood that was just all writing stuff they used to have like script programs for old school Macs like you know the oldest computer me this 1994 that I got this [ __ ] thing and I've written everything I've ever written on this one desk still now yeah I won't I won't ever get rid of it my wife's like let's get rid of this piece of [ __ ] get the [ __ ] out of here this this desk is going nowhere it's solid as a rock it's all Oak but it's just there's stains on it she said it's dis disgusting it's got like coffee like yeah yeah yeah yeah this shit's perfect like as long as it's in my office you [ __ ] leave it here it's got the patina of your uh sweat and labor everything good I've ever written is all from that desk this one desk I've had and I'm never getting rid of it I just got this one oak desk that I've had from the beginning of my time here in LA and I'll never get rid of that [ __ ] so when you say that you've written do you sit down and write yes stand up well I sit down and write this is what I do most of the time I write like I used to keep an active blog on my website but um when I started writing a book I got a book deal a few years back and I started writing a book I stopped writing the blog and then when uh the Publishers were just [ __ ] trying to they were essentially trying to get me to write it like standup I remember you told me about this yeah so I gave them their money back which you felt like doesn't work for a book well I don't like it like I've read I've read like George Carlin's book which is essentially just his standup in in book form and Jerry Seinfeld did similar thing I don't like that I if I'm going to if I want George Carlin's writing like that I want to see it I want to see George Carlin do his stuff I don't want to read it you know there's some benefit I guess in reading it there's some it's good it's better than nothing but it's not as good as when I when I write I'm writing stuff because I know people are going to read it you know so the descriptives are very different the way it's spaced out is very different the way I set things up as different and so um what I do now is I write as if I was going to write a book or a blog entry and then I go over it and then I extract ideas that come
out of that because I feel like I do both like I'll write down specifically I'll try to write as a joke like thinking I'm standing on stage and you know set up punchline or beginning premise and then add in the jokes but more often I just write like I'll write about something and then along the way usually I'm baked so it's I get silly like as I'm writing like these new ideas will come in I just writing with characters and stuff just writing as you talking but you write as you talking I yeah I write not even as me talking I just write like I'll write like uh like I'll pick a subject like um whatever amphetamines P speed you know Aderall and I'll start writing about adall you know and then along the way you know I'll have like a really funny thing will come up in the writing where like like I'm laughing as I'm writing it cuz it just came out of nowhere don't you feel like you're a really good writer Man by the way I really loved mediator it's a really good book oh thanks man it's uh it was I mean I knew you're a smart dude and you're you're you're obviously very articulate but the writing was very it's very descriptive it's very interesting it's very fun to follow and when you um when you write stuff like that don't you feel like sometimes s like as you're writing like it's almost like it's not even you that's writing like these ideas just sort of like pop into your head like out of nowhere and then you're putting them down no I'm um for me I'm so aware of the process that there's no surprising thing to me one of my mentors one like what I regard as one of the best American nonfiction writers out there Alive Now is is a writer named Ian Frasier and he was what's his uh work he he's got several books one of the books I hold up is just like one of the in my opinion one of the finest books ever written is his book Great Planes Great Planes which is about the great PLS um but he's he's a stylist you know he's also he was a humor writer for the New Yorker for a long time anyway I I had great Fortune to you know he he I know if he would use his term I think he like mentored me in some way I read of stuff and had opportunity to hang out with him a handful of times and he was saying that when he was growing up and he wanted to be a writer
he pictured that writers would be that you're sitting at a desk kind of chuckling to yourself as you you know have all these fantastic ideas but when I write I get so few words written every day and every sentence that I write takes I have to write it and rewrite it and rewrite it so many times that there's never a thing where I feel like um there's never a thing where I feel like holy smokes I nailed it because it's it's so I almost look at like if you're building a house you know maybe when you get all done with the house you can stand outside and be like wow there it is I did it but there's never like there's never a shocking moment because every nail and every board you know there's never a chance for where something jumps ahead radically really quickly in a way that can startle you now the other night I wrote my brother's getting married this weekend my older brother and I sat down to to make some notes about um you know my best man speech right after I wrote my best man speech it's funny because this just happened to me last night after I did my best man speech I felt like why can't I feel like I I had where I got I was like talking about some funny stuff in my head and kind of writing down notes and I thought of some way to actually like you're supposed to doing a best man speech is you're supposed to make it like hit right like hit the right note right it's and you're dogging on them and then all of a sudden you turn it you know and it's sweet and nice okay and I found that turn to make it sweet and nice and it's so and it just struck me as being like perfect you know I was like why can't the regular writing I do feel that way that's interesting where I'm like ha you know and I kind of want to like pump my fist in the air do other people that you know that are writers have those moments with those those uh those moments that I'm talking about where things just pop to you I feel like they do I I you know one of the things I follow on Twitter is this thing um John wincker and it's just I don't know how he does it but six or seven times a day he's got quotes from great writers about writing is how do he spell his name JN w i n oh John Wier it's like writers on
writing and I learned more about writing and writers from reading this thing cuz it's like really cool writers talking about the writing process I'm sure he's probably hit one just within minute oh at advice to writers advice to writers had you uh like here right now just a couple minutes ago um or a couple hours ago when I write I don't think of the audience after the fact I think well I hope they like it so that's like a writer talking about writing right and this Twitter feed hits these quotes all day long so I learned more about writers even though I went to writing school and everything I learned more about writers following that guy's Twitter account and I do gather that some writers are blown away and have fun writing to me it's agonizing I can't stand it that's the weird thing about doing TV is I love having written you know when I write a book I'm so it's just like a deep deep satisfaction okay I love having done it when I die if they will if they chisel ryer into my Tombstone you know I I'd be very happy right but I hate the act of writing making TV is so fun just in the moment it's very fun right I love going out and doing it you know but when it's said and done I don't get that that feeling like I slayed a dragon like I would get from writing a book I know exactly what you're talking about you know yeah you're when you're doing a television show also it's very different than most TV and that you're out there doing something you enjoy anyway exactly and there's a lot of people coming in on it so writing is like me I mean sure you know you have it I don't mean to in any way discount the role of an editor and I don't know if you do something similar with your stand up if you show other Comedians and stuff but you have like a role of an editor so I don't want to act like oh it's just all out of your head you know my agent I work closely with he influences things I do my editor but in the end it's like kind of it's your thing right TV's a whole bunch of people so you could go out and have a great thing and then you turn it in and the and the editor Nails it so I can't go like I made this amazing TV show because it's like this the guy that produced it the guys that shot it the has edited it right all that kind of stuff and so your sense of
ownership becomes a little bit different you're like a stakeholder and not like the dude that owns the thing yeah there's so much going on there's music there the way it's edited extremely it it really has a massive impact on how it comes off as a as a piece yeah I think like as a host you know as a host as a person who has like a a lot of Sway and the kind of things we go do I still feel like um you know I'm kicking in 10 or 20% that's interesting and 80 90% is you know a handful of other people who are throwing in on it nobody works harder than people who work on your show like those camera dudes like Dodie and Mo and all those guys who have to [ __ ] sleep in tents and in the back of that [ __ ] van where the llamas piss and I mean I really kind of love it and I love those guys and it's funny we just had this guy we wound up liking him we had a camera guy come out with us for the first time and um and and he was just getting beat up I mean he admitted it you know and it kind of became the joke where he's saying to do he's like man you guys got to do a better job of explaining what this is and Dan's like I feel like I said it's like rigger is hiking you know he's like yeah but that like that's not this I thought like like walking on a trail or something you know it's like but there's no language to explain it I don't know why those guys I do know why I think one could look and be like I don't understand why those guys would subject themselves to that right level of treatment because I've had the opportunity to work very briefly in what would be like network television mainstream television and I'm telling you what it's not typical what you do what those guys do in the hours they do it is not typical not at all no I was shocked to hear like one time some guy was coming out with this and I knew it was going to be trouble cuz he's coming out he's asking about what the hours are I'm like I don't know I think you know we usually we'll sleep at night I mean 24 hours a day or the hours it's like what do you mean when you're sleeping on the ground in Montana and it's 0 degrees outside and you're [ __ ] huddled up in your tent you're you're kind of working still cuz you would never be there unless they were
paying you to be there like even though you're off I mean still you're subjecting yourself to sleeping on the ground in Montana in a tent you're freezing your dick off yeah you know like you have to like Flex and sze under your sleeping bag to generate some warm before you can pass out you're kind of working yeah like that like Dodie Giannis Mo they just they just they like to be in some way tortured a little bit I think and they also just like to be working you know I don't I don't think that they but the other thing is I don't think they really they're at work but I don't know how much they think about it being at work I see what you're saying I think they just think of it as like existing whoa do I mean I don't think they go like oh now I'm going to work I think that they think of their lives more their lives don't seem to I don't think they think of their lives as having like it's like now I'm at work now I'm at home now I'm at work now I'm at home I think like at home they're thinking about work stuff and oh okay I see you know what I mean I feel like more they that they don't look at it like you know punching the Old Clock it's my guess well it was funny because Mo and I had a conversation once about another show that he was working on and one of the guys that was on the other show and uh he was taking great pride in describing what a coward this guy was and it was it was not even great pride but he was enjoying it he's like he's yell you know and he he was he was talking about it but it was like here's a guy that's been working on your show for several seasons and he's [ __ ] undergone some horrendous locations and climbing to the top of [ __ ] mountains while carrying a 50 lb camera and the whole deal I mean these [ __ ] cameras are no joke and Hiking just carrying a gun hiking is difficult there's all this sliding of the ground underneath you and you're constantly going up up up and you're you know essentially like you're doing like little mini squats all day long and it's exhausting and these guys are doing it with one arm holding a [ __ ] camera backwards backwards that old joke about Ginger Rogers and Fred AA you know like she did everything Fred AA did backwards or something heels or whatever it was right right yeah you
know Mo's too good though man like like we can't like Mo's too good you know he's like always he's off doing other stuff you know it was like a treat it was like a treat to have him but no he's we always trying to and but he's just in such demand you know what I mean he's been he's nominated for all these Emmys all the time he won he won an Emmy he's nominated for an Emmy this year well your show stands out all I mean there's there's hunting shows and then there's your show the only show that I've seen recently that does that as well have you seen Uncharted the Jim shaki show no but I know a lot of I know his stuff I haven't seen that but I know that that that show is a highly respected show it's really good man I've heard do was telling me he said it's phenomenal I watched it the other day for the first time and he was off in Pakistan and it was really intense because one of the guys that goes with him all the time his wife didn't want him going to Pakistan I mean she was like really scared and she was like you know it's so dangerous there please don't go he's got a wife and kids and so he stayed back and you know Jim shaki went by himself and they followed the guy who stayed back going on this trip um to to hunt deer uh and when he went on this trip at home in Texas to hunt deer you know he was talking about his dad and like like a real scene like crying and it was it was really intense that's great it was very very very intense but in a way that you you know like a lot of those shows are so [ __ ] bad long before I got involved in TV and outdoor TV it was like a thing you would always hear is friends of mine guys I respected would kind of be sort of dismissing outdoor television as a genre but the thing was always like but shaki's legit or or or some or some such thing I mean he's been around for so long you know but he's a he's a highly respected figure there's this annual thing called Shot Show and and I see him you can't miss him I mean the guy's huge and you know he's kind of like the last great white Hunter you know and um cowboy hat all the time yeah I see him when I you don't know I always think I'm going to go up and say something to him I never have you never have really oh I would I would force myself to no I never want to meet that guy and there's
there's an amazing thing some uh I mean there's just some good clips of stuff he's done and he's he's an articulate guy and and goes to some cool places and he's you know you can tell his heart's in the right place man like I think he has an honest you know he has an honest affection for for wildlife and wild places for sure yeah for sure he also enjoys the roughing it aspect of it like he enjoys going to these ridiculous remote locations and hunting these very odd animals anal very exotic animals he did some thing when they flew into Russia and they they took these [ __ ] weird SUV things these off I mean I shouldn't even say SUV these weird allterrain vehicles that look like these military vehicles deep deep deep in the mountains like 12-hour drive and just so he's been to some wild places get some [ __ ] weird Ram you know it was just it was really intense it's like it's it was unexpected I just was flipping through the channels and it came on and I'd seen his other show before and so this Uncharted thing I'd seen all these ads for it but man they were in Pakistan and they were they had armed guards with them everywhere they went right guys with AK-47s and it was like it was pretty intense cuz it's a [ __ ] dangerous dangerous place and he's out there wearing the traditional Muslim Garb he wears like the the the clothes that those people wear K really you don't want to stand out you don't want to stand out as being a western God he's like the green bravs man yeah so he's wearing their outfits as he's hunting it's really intense and you know they're in the [ __ ] middle of I mean deep in the middle of nowhere hunting some Ram that's great I'm glad I'm glad you like that show cuz it's good to hear uh you know something out there that caught your eye it's really well done it's really well done but there's like that show your show and then like you know the rest of them are there some of them that look like they're made with like a home movie camera and it's like a guy who's never even thought about making a show some sometimes that's true man there's a guy um there's a guy I was talking to who makes the hunting show and one day we're talking I was shocked to hear that he's uh he's a registered nurse has a full-time job at the
hospital whoa and he you know he makes a hunting show yeah he just burns it up man he like wow just something he wants to do and he's just finds a way to make it happen yeah it's [ __ ] hard it's some of them too it's like there's some of them that are the same show always which is so bizarre yeah we that's the thing we have a conversation about is is um I wanted to go back and and film next spring um I have a black bear permit for this regulatory year which extends to the next spring for Prince Wales I wanted to go back and and Dodie was saying like anything that you know we did a show out there I'm interrupting my own story we did a show out on Prince Wales last spring and went and found a lot of bears and um and I in the end I like could have shot a bear I didn't because I just have this strange feeling sometimes not strange sometimes I just want to watch Bears rather than shoot at them so we did a show about about that and I wanted to go back this spring and doie was like I just feel like anything we could have done out there we've done you know and then one hand I'm like yeah that's right we probably shouldn't go and do a show an episode in the same place doing the same thing but on the other hand I'm like B it cuz some shows all it is they don't do anything but hunt their like some lease they have for white tail deer every single time yeah yeah the whole show is looking at camera photos from camera traps and them you know talking about the different stands that they have set up and then them up in the stand with a bow and arrow waiting for a [ __ ] deer to come by I mean that is every goddamn show it's always white tail it's always in a tree stand it's always in the same sort of Farmland on the edges of these cornfields and it's the same show every goddamn week and I guess people just like watching people hunt deer do you enjoy it I watch I I watch him you know every now and then I like you know thinking like o I wish I saw that deer and I was that close I'll shoot the [ __ ] out of that deer I have to feel like you'd learn a bunch of stuff eventually watching it yeah you definitely learn stuff you learn stuff about wind and placement and the trails they walk and their behavior like how they you know
how they can kind of anticipate where they're coming through and how to how to pay attention to their trails and one of them uh it was interesting uh it was uh how to recognize the difference between the dough trails and the the buck Trails the dough Trails were going straight across this like this uh riverbed area where there was a lot of mud you could see like these dos like large populations of animals going this way and he's like you see these animals that are crisscrossing those are those are bucks right they're catching the scent they're catching the scent of these these I hadn't heard that oh really no it's interesting that was so I don't know I don't know a ton about white I mean I grew up hunting white tails we grew up hunting white tails not probably using our heads as much as we might have you know well the one I guess you know we got we got deer you know yeah the time we went at Doug's Farm uh in Wisconsin man there's so many [ __ ] deer they're everywhere it's crazy and there you're not playing this is a distinction I always make in hunting is I try to find those places where you're mostly thinking about animals and not so much thinking about hunters well you focused on that on your show too though the difference like the one time that you went and you were elk hunting in Montana and you know you were on your way after an elk and you see another [ __ ] Hunter that's doing the same thing m everywhere yeah so you spend most of your time wondering about what other guys are doing and trying to capitalize on that or trying to anticipate the response of animals to that pressure you know I so much rather just be like in a one-on-one thing next week we're going up to hunt Moose up in the Brooks range you know and it's one of the you know absolutely the most one of the most remotest places the most remote place in North America and um up there it's like there's really no you don't you don't have to factor in effects of other individuals you're just thinking about the animals which is fun and it's very rewarding but it's just not what most people are up against like when I was a kid and we were hunting white tails we really planned on um people you know it was very important about where other guys were what other
guys hunting schedules was like you know um there's certain guys we knew that you know there there's a guy we knew that would always say like if I see your guys's truck coming down the driveway to the farm I always go over to such and such place because I know that the way you guys move into your blinds you're likely to bump a deer down such and such fence line so this guy's thinking about deer sure but he's thinking about it through the context of of of human activities so deer being scared by you you guys got that blind down in that area and I know every time you go in there you don't realize it cuz you're a dumbass but when you go in there you're bumping deer and they're going down that fence line so if I see your truck coming on going to run over there wow that's interesting which is the kind of thing and like elk when I lived in Montana we would made like our opening day plan was generally find out where elk are where they've been for a couple weeks and so that people will know they're there how are they going to leave that area within three minutes of legal shooting light an opening day and what saddle are they going to use when they pass out of that Valley and you would pretty much Plan that would be your thing is I know where they're at I know that they're going to get bumped probably before legal light and where are they going to go after that I got a friend who has for the last you know 20 years been killing elk by he he knows the spot that elk move into when they get pressured and he knows that some people can find these elk with spotting Scopes and they'll find these elk on his mountain side he knows that you there's no way to approach his elk on his mountain side without spooking him when he sees the elk have moved into this area he'll watch him with his spot and scope waiting to see someone else try to climb up and put a move on these elk when they start climbing up a when he goes that guy sees him he's going to go try to put a move on him he'll go down and Ambush those elk three miles away from there wow and he waits till someone sees him because he knows where they're going to go so cuz he knows the path they always take when they get scared and he calls it the laundry shoot cuz he said they come spilling through
like laundry through a laundry shoot he's been doing it for 20 years wow uh I really enjoyed that episode that you did this year in Kentucky yeah that was Co when you went elk hunting in Kentucky because the situation is very it's very unique in that they've reintroduced successfully reintroduced elk into Kentucky and instead of like what you're looking at a western hunt where you look at these Great Wide Open Spaces and Timber and you can see them in the distance instead you're looking at incredibly dense like Southeast sort of kind of forest where these elk are like you were like kind of creeping up on them and like it was hard for the camera guy to get a good view of some of these elk like the elk you shot like there's so many goddamn trees there oh yeah you're just seeing little portions of them it's funny cuz when that show in the beginning of that show we're standing there in you know pre-dawn darkness and there's like the Eastern forest or sort of like the cacophony of noise in an Eastern Forest that you lack in the West bug the biodiversity is so much higher you know not on large mammals but the biodiversity of just stuff that is that because of moisture Pro I don't know quality of soil moisture Pro yeah I I would guess moisture as a huge part of it and probably the for fertility of the landscape like like the you know how nutrient-rich the soil is at some base level probably is what's at Play Because specific Northwest doesn't have those sounds and it's very moist yeah you're right that's why I was confusing I know guys that would be able to answer that I I don't know I I know that for instance I keep coming back you can tell I'm so excited about her hunt on Prince Wills Island I know my brother who is an ecologist up there um that that elevation band where Prince of Wales island is is sort of the the richest marine environment of anywhere really yeah so that that like latitude ban is an extremely rich marine environment there as far as the fishing there must be incredible yeah just I mean it's just everything it's like you it's just a buzz with life are we going to we going to fish there where there we there too no no no if we get maybe there's a possibility but probably not it's it
gets a little bit late like fishing Peaks like July August is phenomenal it just kind of hbit yeah but they hbit so much better in July and August I mean weird us up there for my brother's bachelor party and did phenomenally well on halit yeah Doug was sending me pictures yeah we got some doozies enormous some yeah some nice ones they're like tables so so in the beginning of that episode just kind of standing there and um and and to hear that noise of the Eastern Forest you know and then to have it be that you're looking for Elk is so it just feels weird for anyone famili with that pulled up a clip pull up a clip so people could hear it because it's pretty cool it's you in the forest like on your show where you were uh you were explaining it and talking about it to distinguish the smell of where elk used to be the smell of where elk are are right now the smell of elk right now seems to have like a warmth to it it's hard to explain but you just kind of get a sense you're like you'll smell and you be like that's elk that's not where elk words where elk are here's a spot where game's been beded little beds all over here it's hot it just makes it oh B right yeah those things are cool looking it's like a ghost in the forest just shows up there they are man it's so different so enormous too so those things got wiped out of that area by 1820 um you know like Daniel Boone there's right there used to cross over to get down into the Kentucky hunting grounds he would cross over to Cumberland Gat which is very near there and then he would go to you know what was we call the Bluegrass Hills and that was an more open environment and had a lot of elk and people would hunt and he would hunt the Bluegrass Hills for Elk they'd hun for deer and hunting for black bear selling the meat and hides by the 1820 or thereabouts the elk is gone okay the Buffalo got shot out um elk got shot out deer remained black bears remained mountain lions were shot out wolves were shot out and then they were gone for over 100 years and then when they they did all that Mountaintop coal mining in Kentucky and after the Reclamation process you know they had chop down in
the construction of these mines they destroyed a lot of of hardwood forests okay like deciduous hardwood forests Hickory Beach Oak all kinds of stuff but when they reclaimed it they left all these flat Mountaintop areas that they just did in in uh you know grasses and other stabilizing vegetation not Timber and it created sort of this open Savannah like environment and people recognize it to be a good place to put elk and there wasn't a lot of resistance if you went into an agricultural area and decided you know we got a great idea we're going to bring in thousands of 7 800 PB herbivores and cut them loose out here you would get a ton of resistance but the area is rural enough and in the reclaimed coal country there just wasn't a a huge interest in not putting them there so now they've got the biggest elk kurd east of the Mississippi there's 10,000 plus elk running around in Kentucky but even still elk are are like 90% not recovered you know I mean they were everywhere they were everywhere and the weird thing about it is we could have as many back we could totally bring back way more than we have now but you have a handful of interests that that don't like that auto insurers generally don't like it agricultural interests don't like it but it's one of those things that we could fix like that in the Buffalo the only thing standing between us and restoring Buffalo to more of their native range is popular conception perception of you know probably the perception of the issue the only thing standing between us and reintroducing Elk to more and more to their native range is just selling it to the public other problems we have you know you look at something like acidification of the oceans people are like geez I have no idea I don't know what there's no way right it's impossible to fix this it's too expensive whatever we don't know the science we don't understand the science of it but some stuff like when it comes to Bringing big animals back oftentimes it's just a matter of do we want to or not and in Kentucky there was enough people that wanted to where they made it happen and now it's a thriving herd they're even using that herd they had they pulled animals the Rocky Mountain
Elk Foundation spearheaded the thing and provided much of the money and labor for it they pulled animals from I can't remember if it was 17 or 20 Source sites moved them into Kentucky now KY is a source site for other reintroduction so they're pulling animals out of Kentucky now and using them to to to reintroduce herds and other places where they were exted from what other places are they planting it now they got some going into I know in Virginia they're bringing some in um I'm not sure if they brought some into North Carolina but you know North Carolina had native herds was just an amazing animal so the meat is so incredibly healthy it's really like a a a a breast a pound of chicken and a pound of elk the elk will have less cholesterol yeah it's healthier for you less fat more protein it's like the best it's the best meat out there man as far as eating like the the taste of it see they still make there's no bad elk they're just good even the big giant ones yeah they're just good man my brother killed one one time he had a really hard it was just tough he hadn't aged it but you need to you know you need like a nice facility to be able to consistently age stuff because the if the weather's against so you can't age it like where you know no one's got most people don't have a walk-in cooler where they can go hang 400 500 lounds of meat you know and that is what an elk is so if you get one and it's hot often times you got to get it into a freezer and it'll age a little bit in a freezer but anyways he killed one flavor was great but it was just a tough tough tough bulll to chew on just a big muscular animal it just tough and um it was funny cuz he uh he started the the only vegetable he was interested in eating I'm going to tell you this was boiled cabbage because like I only have so much muscle power in my jaw and I can't waste any of my jaw muscle power on anything but chewing my elk up so he would eat boiled cabbage and that elk his elk until he got done with it until he ate all let me tell you a funny story about this guy too like his aversion to waste is a buddy of ours got married one time and and his bride's neighbors were out of town for during the wedding ceremonies the
bride's neighbor says well I'll open my house up if you got some out of town guests who need a place to stay cuz I'm on vacation anyways so they give this house where it's just like for the groomsmen to hang out and me and my brothers were in the you know with the groomsmen and some other guys and so we get to stay in this house during our stay he has occasion my brother Matt has occasion to peaking the guy's freezer and sees in his freezer that he's got an elk he killed four years ago it's dated from four years ago and he he has a moral crisis where he's like is it worse to steal or is it worse to allow such a beautiful animal's flesh to go to waste when this guy inevitably will declare this freezer burned and throw it away like if he was going to eat it he would have ate it right years and years ago so when we left he had a bunch of that in his duffel bag and went home and ate it because he couldn't stomach the thought of that animal going to waste like his reverence for it is so high that he can't have so he can't allow someone else to to trifle with it how many years is an animal good in a freezer I'm telling you what man it depends on the animal lean stuff like elk if you trim away who Okay lean stuff like hooved animals hooved hooved game animals if you trim away the fat which we don't call Fat we call Tallow it's waxy if you trim that stuff away and you either seal it with a vacuum sealer and then don't mess with the bag like don't poke any holes in the bag so that the seal stays good and treat it very gently so that the steal stays so that the seal stays intact or you wrap it in Saran Wrap and then wrap it in wax freezer paper you could not Pepsi challenge that stuff if it was a year old against stuff that was a month old what about two years three years I've done two two is for me personally the longest out I've gone is two I've heard of people going more and at two when you thought and you look at it you can tell something happened to it but you can trim it up and have it be and I've served it old stuff like that to my wife the only time it happens to me is if I wind up having something get kind of lost in my freezer if you don't
practice good freezer management like I try to do what would be last in first out right but now and then just something happens and you lose track or something and you find some old thing I've served stuff to my wife that was two years old and she didn't flag it while eating it you like use her in as an experiment no just do it cuz I mean she'll call me out she eats more Wild game meat than most people that I mean it's you know she's Wild game meat every night that's all you have in your house when we're at home yeah we just eat game meat lately we've been eating salmon and H which you can't really complain about but you know she's eating tons of it she'd recently um I'm not allowed I'm trying to get this overturned but right now there's a moratorium on bare meat in your house yeah because you got tricken nois yeah so her her and my kids she said that you will not serve bare meat to my kids oh wow because of you getting that I got the work I got but you only get that illness if you undercook it it's like 150° right is that what it is and I tried to explain that so we this spring we hunted black bears we hunted black bears in the Alaska range I took a guy hunting who you should have on the show at some point a guy named roor Denver and he's a he's just leaving the service now but he's a Navy SEAL commander and um he wrote a book called danam f making the modern seal Warrior and you remember a few years ago that movie active Valor came out and was all active duty seals he's one of the stars in that movie and um took him out bear hunting he grew up fishing liked to fish a lot hadn't done any hunting but definitely grew up in the outdoors and then you know obviously over the last 13 14 years they've been just he's been just consumed by training and being deployed again and again and again to you know Iraq and Afghanistan so he hasn't like messed around outside even though it was very important him growing up he just like I say he's leaving the service now I took him out on a hunt and uh we went up Blackberry hunting and in the end we got on this big black bear and called in with a predator call and he killed the bear and we walked them it's a big boar you know it's like a six and A2 foot boar and I said and
we're cutting it up and I'm saying to him on camera I'm like I'm telling you what man if a bear is going to have trolis it's going to be him and what I'm talking about was Montana used to do free uh they used to do free testing for trinis so you could send in a they asked for specifically a golf ball-sized piece of the tongue and you could send it into the MSU and then MSU would send you the results on your bear the first bear I ever sent in for testing was from a 17-year-old black bear whoa and that bear meat came back positive besides steaks and roasts I had 83 lounds of ground meat off that black bear it was a big bear so I send the thing in it comes back and it's positive and once it's positive you are excused from wantan and waste laws so it's illegal to waste game meat okay you they they spell out in great detail what you're obligated to retain on an animal and use there's some areas in Alaska for instance where you know if you kill a moose you have to bring the liver home it's specified like legally you're obligated to salvage the liver so they send a thing saying we're not going to give you a new Bear Tag but you're excus and if you want to discard the meat you can discard the meat and I was like there's no way I'm gonna do that right the only thing worse to me than getting trigonis was was throwing away this bear meat so I just got a meat thermometer a nice one and ate the whole bear I went on I never got another bear tested and they told me I read this thing was saying that of these they did this study in Montana where these two counties in Northwest Montana that have really high bear populations it's Lincoln County and Sanders County and they said that they've never tested a bear from those counties that was over six years of age that didn't have trinis so trigonis is just something like you're not born with it right you can you eat infected meat and you cont trct you know the disease or you know and then you wind up having those little cysts the larvae in your muscle tissue and it just pass along through consumption it's the reason you're supposed to cook pork to well done and now it's not really that way anymore because they've gotten it out of
domestic pork so much because when they when they stop feeding pigs restaurants slop they really cut trickin nois out because what they realize is when they're feeding pigs restaurant slop you're inadvertently giving them rats and mice that are sort of caught up in the cycle of restaurant slop right and rats and mice are big carriers so once they got rid of then once they made it illegal and they had like only the USDA inspected pigs are feeding on controlled sources not stuff from you know garbage pales I used to wash dishes at the summer camp when I was kids and every day a pig farmer came and got all the food scraps and he fed them and he was selling inspected pork so you can't do that now so now 90 some per of the black bear cases or Sor so 90 some per of the trinis cases in the US come from bare meat I'm explaining all this to work and the next day I I'm explaining another interesting thing about Blackberry meat how there's a lot of variability in Blackberry meat some are great some are not so great so I'm talking about when I kill a bear I'm always really interested to get a taste of it to see if we're dealing with if we got gold or or bronze right and we start a fire and it's raining and we start a little fire and skewer up just some pieces just to sample it and it's raining and we're feeding it the firewood and everything's wet it's just a pain in the ass trying to get it cooked and eventually I kind of peel this piece apart in my hands I'm like yeah you know we're cool we're cool so there's six of us we eat it and I never think of another thing about it right so the next day we cooked some Shanks but we cook the piss out of these Shanks like we make asabuko bra Shanks and cook them for five or six hours right we eat a whole bunch of that eat some grailing eat some rainbow trout go home a month goes by and I get the shit's real bad so and it's like a weird kind of the shits so I send a text message to the guys I work with saying does anybody have like a weird kind of the shits because I'm worried that we got giardi or something or crypto spidia from from water contamination and um one of the guys writes back and he says no but man do I got like some bizarre muscle aches you know now yeah
well never mind that I'm worried about my shits you know I'm not worried about your problem so a couple days later I remember I'm like crossing the street and I'm like God that's a weird feeling in my back you know and it just got worse and worse and worse and I eventually texted this guy and I'm like what were you saying about muscle EGS dude and a while that four of us all had it and when we started putting it together I was like we all have the same weird thing intense muscle pain in our calves intense muscle pain in our necks fevers and we haven't seen each other for a month and we all got sick on July five so it was like this isn't the common cold so there's an incubation period a month what happens is you eat the only thing that can liberate those larvae from their cysts is stomach acid so when you consume the meat your stomach acid dissolves the the thing and liberates the larvae and you got boys and girls in there and it takes them forever it takes them weeks they build up their numbers you know they get kicking ass then they get into your bloodstream The larva do and then about a month into it The larva start burrowing out of your vascular system and getting into your muscle tissue whoa when they start setting up shop oh my God so the DDC gets involved in this um I was now in Kings County okay they sent me a thing recently where no one in Kings County has had well like last year in the whole country there's like 11 or 12 cases of trickn nois in the whole country no one in Kings County had it in four or five years the last guy that had it um I think a guy in I think a guy in 2007 or 2011 I can't remember which where's Kings County the Seattle area yeah he had it from making homemade Mountain Li Jerky like the only guy so they're all excited and they want me to give him a piece of the meat and I give him a piece of that meat they come in a car and I like go down and hand I'm a shank off this bear and I told her I said if you eat that cook it you know and um she tests it n it back to me a while later and that thing had 868 larvae per gram which is something like 460,000 larvae per pound oh my God there's these
blown up images of it and and it's just like it's just larvae so the whole meat is just infested infested with larva that bear must be in misery I don't know what he's thinking but I but I'm fine now so out of the four of us to get sick I'm I go down and they say like in severe cases you know if it attacks your pulmonary system if the larva attack your heart there's you take a there's a medication you take I said well I'm just going to take the medication you know and they're like well you know you might not need to I said I want to go take it I go down that medication is $2,400 even with health insurance it's $1,100 to buy the medication so the other guys are like well I'll just wait and see what happens to you we all get better at the same time and that medication only kills them in your stomach right so for 6 to 10 years depending on your Source if you were to eat me undercooked you would contract trolis wa so I don't know if that means I have 868 larvae per gram I just have a hard time fathoming that but we're all positive like we're positive carriers wow so you right now have those things in your muscle tissue that's my understanding and I read a lot about this as you can imagine like you get I was very curious about I didn't know I always thought when you got TR nois you died kind of I didn't know I thought I don't know what I thought I've been writing about this in talking about this on TV for 10 years telling people and by the way make sure to but you know they say like familiarity breeds complacency you know I thought it was contempt is that what it is yeah no well then that's my new saying because I felt like I don't know why I can sit here right now and picture the piece of meat that I'm sure got me sick wow so I don't know what I was thinking man and my wife my wife's like it's so embarrassing she's like you're supposed to be like the media I'm like I'm like you know what though and I was embarrassed and it's embarrassing right but at the same time like you know what where do all the Mountaineers die they die in the mountain you know so it's not like oh you should be the last guy to die in the mountain you claim to be this big
Mountaineer it's like well you know what exposure I don't know you know living on that's just my way of hiding the fact it was like really stupid it was a stupid thing to do and I one I remember doie saying are you sure you want people to know that this happened to you because isn't it kind of embarrassing to you and I'm like yeah it's embarrassing to me but I'm just going to talk about it cookie bear meat so she yeah my wife's like no way we're just done with the bear meat thing and my brother at my brother's wedding we're at his rehearsal dinner we doing all wild game for his rehearsal dinner so I had smoked up a ham off this bear that I'm going to serve at his rehearsal dinner he says don't tell anybody about the worm deal because it'll turn them off to the whole damn meal and I said well I got to I feel now like I'll have to say this has been cooked cooked but FYI I got TR nois from eating this bear uncooked and he thinks that he's just like I'd rather you not serve it than serve it and bring it up whoa but I think you should serve it and in the end I decided not to serve it at his wedding I would have eaten it as long as it's cooked to 150° especially smoked I AR people aren like that man people aren't like that I smoked that ham from that pig that we shot and uh I did it to finish your in your your method with the the brine oh my God it was some of the best tasting meat I've ever had it was unbelievable I'm telling you man and that son of a [ __ ] probably has I mean not not probably but it a very good chance he's got it they eat meat yeah yeah it was so tender and delicious but I've cooked a bunch of it just just put it on the grill just seasoned it and put it on the grill and it's uh amazing how tough it is yeah it can be tough chew through that [ __ ] but tastes you did you get a grinder yeah I got a grinder yeah I got a grinder for the venison after Wisconsin Ken and I we made buckets of hamburger meat that's good it's so good and you can you can grind up that wild pork too yeah I'd be curious just to take a piece of that wild pork and send it in and see if if it has uh if it has trinis or not do you want me to I'll send it in I don't know I mean what is that I don't know what would you do with the information if you knew uh make sure
I did what I'm already doing I guess exactly yeah I when I cooked it I cooked it the smoked ham I cooked for like [ __ ] 10 hours or something crazy it took forever and you get it up to the right temperature some people even say like Harold McGee's science and lore of the kitchen or science and lower cooking whatever it is it's a great it's like the science of food and food cooking and ingredients it's a phenomenal reference book in there he says it seems to be I think it was in his book he says it seems that there's evidence to suggest that freezing kills it though the USDA still sticks that guideline of of cooking temperature but that like long freezing kills it but couple years ago a couple guys got trinis from walrus meat in Alaska [ __ ] walrus yeah so Howard that son of a [ __ ] got it but he's the walrus had it and they think that there might be that this worm is tricinella spirales I think is his name I got pictures of the thing on my phone what the worm looks like so um that there's Northern they think there might be some Northern varieties in Walrus and polar bear that are less susceptible to freezing and that perhaps that that freezing is not to be relied on when killing these worms that it's a different Northern variety that's just got more tolerance and again man this is just something I read who the [ __ ] is eating polar bear and walrus wow people like walrus when I there's a guy you know it's funny I've never had it but I've been arranging to have some because I drew um a musx tag for nvac Island this winter and when you hunt nvac Island if you draw that tag you have to hire what's called a transporter because the only place to land is a mikaru on nvac and it's a native Village okay it's an Inuit or Eskimo Village and these people like your transporter can't do guide services like he can't tell you where an animal is but he's like provides Transportation so you rent snow machines or however you getting around and he'll give you a place to stay when you're on the island it's called a transporter The Transporter that I'm using is a walrus Hunter so they're protected by The Marine Mammal protection act okay so like white guys don't go hunt walrus but
natives who aren't administered by the Marine manual protection act have their own self-governing body called The Walrus commission and I think the walrus commission I can't remember it's meets in Gnome or kabu and the walrus commission will make decisions about what walrus Harvest different coastal Villages are allowed to have and out there on nvac those Hunters out there will periodically go and Hunt walrus and the guy I'm using as my transporter goes on the walrus hunts so I've been encouraging him to make sure to have some that i' because I'd like to eat it when I come out and I'd like to do a thing about that and hang out with this guy and eat walrus meat and he's going to saydes he's going to make sure to have some on hand and are W walrus's like when when you you hunt a walrus like you're allowed to eat the meat but you're not allowed to hunt it it so but you someone could give it to you could you bring it back I don't know about you can't bring the ivory back I don't know about transporting the meat that's a good question but yeah I could go into his home and I don't even know the extent of it but I can go into his home and he can serve me a meal just like people might go up to gnome or whatever and Sample muuk tuck from whale you know yeah um but no I I don't I I know I'm fairly certain that he could not give me the ivory you know cuz there's like the the ivory band so Ivory has to have a cultural marking on it you know you're supposed to turn into artwork so a lot of times you know like sea otters were nearly extrap pated and some places like regionally extrap by the fur trade particularly when the Russians were had a strong presence in Alaska and now seot numbers are you know really recovered in a lot of areas but still for natives that are allowed to trap sea ERS they can't just sell the Pelt as a pelt they have to do something to it to make it a cultural item at which point they can exchange it for money so if a native Hunter kills a walrus he can do scrimshaw on that Tusk you know and and that puts that Tusk in a different legal framework than it would as raw what they call raw ivory H that's fascinating so I know but yeah he can serve me a piece of walor meat but I don't know what I don't know what
laws govern me walking away with some I have no idea now seals they eat seals as well and they're allowed to hunt and eat seals the the natives and the Inuits again again it's self-governed I watched Bourdain's show and he was with this innuit family and they were eating a seal and they they butchered the whole thing like yeah that was in Northern Canada right what's what's there's like an autonomous sort like an autonomous Zone there the Name Escapes you right now but yeah I know what you're talking about and they were eating it raw yeah and you're that doesn't have chosis I have no idea or I don't know if people were surprised to hear that walrus has had trinis what does a walrus eat well they eat a lot of you know clams crabs they eat a lot of I just don't know enough I don't know enough about how that thing got it I don't know enough about whether what kind of sea animals have that stuff I mean was he eating a chunk of polar bear that he found Frozen on I have no idea I would love to know when I had Lyme disease I did tons of I I could have gotten an honorary PhD in Lyme disease after having lme disease and then when I got osis I started reading everything I could find about osis but I just got better one day that's wild I quit read I quit reading about it just you just felt better went away six seven days one of the guys that had he was running 103.9 degree fever whoa for six days and they're checking them for like Denay fever westnile virus he had no idea to even bring this up one of the dude's girlfriends is a doctor and she says finally I think you boys got trinis I go to a doctor I'm like here's what I think I got and they didn't know they didn't know what the hell I was talking about well you said 12 cases a year in the entire country yeah they never see it and there's four of you one of them asked me how to spell it one thought I was talking about a veneral disease called Tri trasis but I eventually convinced them man just like when I had lme disease I walked around having to convince people that I had that well Lyme disease is really common though super common that's that I don't understand but just depends on what that per What that particular I'll use the term What that particular healthare provider has run into and you
go in and say like oh I'm not feeling so hot you know and this and that I think I got l disease it's just like not you know I think if you're in Hudson Valley New York you're going to walk in they're going to be like hell yeah you got Lyme disease but in some places they're going to be like ah you I don't know what you got isn't it weird when you talk to some do I mean there's doctors are dismissive of things like real dismissive and then it turns out that you were right that's got to be infuriating isn't it so that that's what I ran into and and I've told the story a thousand times but when my boy we got trick thank God he didn't get trick nois he got Lyme disease he and I got lime at the same time fishing bluegills and he we're I was at my mom's in Michigan my mom comes up she was swimming with the boy my mom lives on the same Lake I grew up on and she was swimming with the boy down on the lake and she comes up and says why is his belly button all red like this I'm like I can't tell what happened there and it turned into one of those Bullseye rashes my wife I send my wife a text image like text message picture of this thing and my wife right away is like I wonder if he's got l lime disease looks like one of those bu Bullseye rashes they talk about Lyme disease so she tells me send it to his pediatrician cuz I had him at my moms you know she wasn't there she's like send it to his pediatrician I sent it to his pediatrician be like we're worried about what he's got lime she's like we just keep an eye on it but you don't keep an eye on those things those things just go away like they don't last forever right so all of a sudden then it's gone but clearly he had it and so then we wind up going down there cuz then he gets another one somewhere else and we go down we're like we're really concerned he's got l because he gets this Bullseye rash and they're like well where is it I'm like well it's not there now but it was there and he keeps talking about this that and the other thing different symptoms he's having we take him in three times each time bringing up I fear that this is what's going on with him when we pull him out of the bathtub for whatever reason in the hot water he's got these damn circles all over him but they kind of go away you know eventually he's got
Bell's Palsy he'd take a sip of milk and his milk would around the corner of his mouth you know and we go in they like holy [ __ ] he's got Lyme disease and at this point it's been going on for weeks you know and what's funny is this place his pediatrician has a newsletter and they had a newsletter article that was about lime hysteria about how everyone so hysterical about lime being like don't really need to worry about it you know everybody's getting hysterical about lime like it's the new bogey man you know so in this altercation we have with the pediatrician I'm like I feel that your lime hysteria thinking and your lime hysteria article kind of colored your impression of what I'm telling you when I when we're coming you're telling you we had to self- diagnose our child at which point they said I want to have someone else in the room during this discussion you they they said that yeah because we were pissed well you easily could have sued the [ __ ] out of them if you were so inclined oh yeah listen and you I don't R around thinking that stuff but I mean I I was like I entertained all kinds of ideas if he didn't get better but he he responded so quickly to medication the uh but it was unbelievable and meanwhile I had all the same stuff and I thought it was psychosomatic I went up having to do the intravenous stuff you know doy he was real he was in the hospital with lime menitis well when I ran into you last time we went hunting together you were really skinny and I was like dude you look like you lost a lot of weight and I lost a ton of weight during all that he told me the whole story about I was even trying to drink like like milkshakes and stuff like I was like down at GNC trying to like do stuff and all that yeah I had the guy some Wilderness athletes me like um I was trying to anything I could do to put on weight wow there was a that it knocked my dick in the dirt bad man I bet I've heard nothing but horror stories about people getting Lyme disease nothing but horror stories it's just it and then not only that your body doesn't really ever get rid of it right no it's unclear you know and if you like the the medical the established scholarly consensus on Lime I think is still this that there's no
such thing as chronic lime that's what they'll say is what when I say they I mean like the the medical establishment will say that that chronic lyme doesn't exist that there's Lyme disease and when you go through treatment like what I did the the 28 day intravenous deal they put a line that goes in your arm up to your heart and you inject these syringes in it like when you get done with that you do not have those bacteria in your body anymore if you go to a lime specialist and you tell a lime specialist I have chronic lime I met one I tried to get in to to see one of these lime Specialists and she said categoric I don't see lime chronic lime patients I see acute lime patients and I had already done one round of antibiotics and I got worse during the round of oral and she's like oh you're chronic lme meaning like oh it's all in your head what so I go to another infectious disease person I was talking to them and they said well it's like it just seems kind of it's a urban chronic limes an urban legend my finding wound up in some way bearing out what she said would happen where I finished the stuff I think I got done with it sometime in September and by November my symptoms were gone that's me my boy got better but I've met I've since then met other people who are very credible individuals you know who are not hysterical people who've been through various rounds of treatment and they're not getting better the AR like the arthritic stuff and lime's such a weird thing like with my kid you can't argue with Belle's poliy it's just right there but other stuff like for folks who don't know what that means it's paralysis facial paralysis yeah I mean he had like bad facial paralysis so you can't argue with it right it's just like glaring and that's one of the key that's one of the the bullseye rash Bells paly but there's all these other things like uh arthritic pain okay um fatigue they now think a lot of people think that all the time they were diagnosing chronic fatigue syndrome was people with limes wow people with Lyme disease my friend's dad got it from the from getting vaccinated they used to have a vaccination against Lyme disease but the with it a small percentage of people that got that
vaccination would have some genetic marker that would make them predisposed to getting [ __ ] Lyme disease from this vaccine so this guy was terrified of getting Lyme disease gets a vaccination against Lyme disease got Lyme disease from the vaccination and then they stopped making the Lyme disease vaccination so this poor guy has [ __ ] Lyme disease and he's still [ __ ] up he's an old guy it's her dad and he's you know he's jacked from this [ __ ] vaccination I haven't checked this from multiple sources I just heard this or read this that um a couple interesting facts about lime is when when my son and I both got it I remember being like what are the odds because you'd read that one or two% of ticks carry lime so I'm like we would have had to have been covered in hundreds of ticks for both of us to have you know statistically for both of us to have gotten without even seeing any ticks like how could this be I later read that in that area in New York in that area in Hudson Valley they've done some stuff for 60 or 70% of the ticks have lime and they used to Chronicle 30,000 confirmed cases you know every year I think last summer they were close to 300,000 wow it's just blown up and it's not so much that it's blown up in new places it's just it's becoming like much more common in other places and isn't there a direct correlation between overp population of deer and and these ticks some people say that because it's like in that thing's lifespan you know it gets on deer but I've heard all things that even just like rodents you know so like like smaller fur animals I'm not really clear on that man I don't really know I know that that when you look at places that have it you're looking at places that have a lot of deer but I don't know if if you had a third as many deer if you'd have higher lower if you'd have necessarily lower infection rates I can't answer that but Doug durran who you know he I think last summer twice he got put on the the immediate antibiotics because right now when you find one of those ticks buried in you if you going to a doctor and if you're not weird about medication the doctor's just going to give you a super heavy dose of antibiotics that kills it before it gets a hold of you if you wait like I did it
gets into your nervous system so I even had uh I even had for a day I had Amnesia where I'm sitting at my desk and I get up to do something and I sit back down and I didn't know who wrote what's on my computer whoa I started I knew I had to write about a subject cuz I knew that before the Amnesia kick I lost a whole day I lost like eight hours of time and I knew that I was supposed to write about a subject and here was a thing on my computer about that subject I started taking sentences and or first I took a big block like a paragraph of text and put it into Google to try to find how I cut and paste how I managed to cut and paste an article on the subject I was supposed to be writing about into a Word document but there's no match then I had to start taking like little blocks of words in quotes and there's no match I'm like this is not from online then I start thinking that one of the guys I work with I thought this guy Jared Andrew canis who was near there who works at zpz I started thinking that he somehow is playing some joke on me where he came and wrote about what I was supposed to write about on my desk I also have a book one of my favorite hunting books called hunt by Duncan Gilchrist and on it I had written uh Mark Borman Vortex Optics okay I look at the book I know the book I know who Mark Borman is but I can't imagine why Mark borman's name would be on a sticky note on that book and I look at my other hand and on my hand I have Lop written and Lop is a term length of pull it's a firearm term and a guy wanted to length to pull off a firearm and I wrote Lop on my hand I looked at my hand I'm like I didn't know who put that there how long it had been there what it meant and I tried to get home and couldn't get home you couldn't figure out I got on the wrong train got off at the wrong spot we were living in Brooklyn got off at the wrong spot came up recognized a sport recognized a like a sporting good like a sports place called uh I can't remember it doesn't matter what it's called like a sporting goods place and um called my wife and told her that's where I was and then all of a sudden things started making more and more and more and more sense wow dude it was wild man
I thought I was dying I thought I was dying we did uh an episode of that uh Joe Rogan questions everything show on morgelin Morgellons is this disease that most doctors dismiss they think that the people that are saying they have this that there's something wrong with them psychologically that they have some sort of a psychosomatic issue and that what they're really doing is scratching themselves until they create these abscesses and and then sometimes even putting things in their skin and then claiming that these things have been growing out of their skin because they found like carpet fibers and stuff in their skin that these people sent in uh but then um when we went to these uh conferences where these people would meet that have this more galons issue you realized you're you're also talking about some seriously educated people and some of them that are doctors and one of the doctors that we talked to said there is a direct correlation between morgelin disease and people who have Lyme disease oh is that right and what he said is very intelligent guy what isn't a Nutter what he said is that he believes that there's a neurotoxic effect uh that you get from Lyme disease from some strains of Lyme disease because the way he said was if you look at Lyme disease he goes you're not looking at like if if a tick infects you you're not looking at just Lyme disease but it's possible you might have gotten 10 different things man I learned about a lot of that stuff yeah and that one of those 10 different things is causing this neurotoxic effect that literally is making you go crazy so when doctors are examining these people and they say oh they're crazy they think that carpet fibers are growing out of their skin no they have lime disease and the Lyme disease along with all this other [ __ ] is causing this neurotoxic effect and that is what's making them think that there's something wrong out their skin so it's not that they're just crazy is that they have a disease that's making them go crazy and that was pretty Illuminating cuz this guy was talking about like seeing things like seeing like worms underneath his skin of his eyes when he's looking in the the mirror and he goes and I knew it wasn't there but I'm seeing it anyway and he goes I could feel it moving across my eye but then there was nothing there and he's
like and it was pretty clear to me as a doctor that there was something going on with my mind that had a direct correlation between this disease so all these people that have this Mor galin they also have this Lyme disease you know I don't know if if Dan Dy told me about this but he all of a sudden has this excruciating neck pain and he goes down to a emergency room this is same time this is going on me he goes down the emergency room it's like oh you got like they gave him some muscle relaxers or something he comes back home when it gets worse and weirder he goes down to another place and they tell him the same thing he got a pinch nerve and and we're text messaging about I was like hey what's going on you know how you feeling and I remember that when I was finally talking to a a person who knew about lime they kept telling me to move my neck and see if it hurt and I told D I said you know what when I was down there they kept asking me to move my head and does my neck feel weird go down to that place so he just leaves his one doctor takes a cab down to this place where I had gone and they admit him and he had menitis was spent I don't know how you know four five six days in the hospital wound up with the pick line and menitis from lime menitis whoa cuz in your in your you know like an infections in your spinal fluid I have a friend who died from that died from menitis he went to the hospital went into the emergency room and he was uh he was a comic and he was he's one of he was real busy he was like [ __ ] this place they're making me wait too long I'm leaving and he got out of there got on a plane flew to Hawaii when he got to Hawaii he was dying is that right by the time he got there it was too late I was yeah I was scared because I remember but there's I guess there's different forms but anyway it's his they did a spinal tap and you know he was all messed up and Men andus is some scary [ __ ] fine I've had some of the weird in the last three or four years I I've had just some of the weirdest like freaky hell things but they're parasites it's like almost everything that You' had Gardia or something I got a colon infection from water and that was from the other show right that was from like wild within no that was doing meat eater so I had I I
like I got really bad poison oak was on steroids for that but also got some kind of waterborne parasite and then the steroids combat your ability to fight infection I went up in the hospital went up like [ __ ] in my own couch my wife's like my wife's like listen you know there's nothing now she's like I felt bad about like having you be there when I was having babies she's like you got I got you got nothing on me now that's hilarious [ __ ] your own couch so I couldn't even tell when it was happening you know wow I thought oh man again I thought I was going to die so anyways I just had like just the weirdest stuff keep I keep bringing up Dodie but dod's like you need to go to a shaman because he thinks that there's some thing like I need to have like like there's some sin committed against the universe or something and it's like he thinks I need to go to a shaman to get right Dodie did too much DMT he did too much DMT trust me you you can do too much you you got to be careful with the [ __ ] iasa yeah that's hilarious that whole Shaman thing is is a real trip you know the whole going to the jungle and taking that medication and having these spiritual experiences it'll get you convinced that everything's all tied together and that somehow or another you've committed some sort of a sin against the Universe I got I got to let you talk to him I can't even I don't want to speak for the boy I'm already talked about him too much I think yeah yeah no well doy and I had a long extensive conversation about his iasa experiences yeah and I've never done iasa but I've done DMT many times I did it again recently did it last weekend and the the DMT experien is it essentially what IAS is is a orally active version of DMT because the Amazon Shaman and the people derived it's from two different plants okay well I don't know the first thing about this stuff DMT is dimethyl tryptamine and it exists in thousands of different plants and the reason why you don't get it like you don't get high when you eat it is because your stomach produces monoamine oxidate so monoamine oxidates um what you need to do is take an inhibitor so that you could get it in an orally an
orally active form so most of the time when most people get DMT what they're getting is the synthesized version where they've taken um scoto verius or all these different plants they extracted it down to the DMT and then you smoke it um and what they do in the Amazon is they is it regulated in the US or not it's illegal schedule one the issue with schedule one with with it being a drug though is that it exists in so many different forms you would have to make grass illegal like if you had feris grass growing in your front lawn you essentially have uh a schedule run drug growing on your lawn in massive quantities so it can't be enforced it's a weird but but if they find the powder if they find it synthesized and turned into a powder that you could smoke and free base then it's illegal and then it's a schedule one drug but it exists in your own human neurochemistry it's like making saliva illegal literally that ridiculous um the Amazon Shaman have figured out a way to take the vine of one plant and the root and the uh leaves of another and they boil them together so essentially they use harine which is a natural MAO inhibitor and they combine it with this plant and they boil it into this potion and that's what iasa is so it's DMT and an MAO inhibitor together in this Elixir you drink it and you have what's close to the smoke DMT experience as you can get uh but not quite as potent but it's not it's not there's not a synthetic version of iasa no no like it's all extracted from plants like DMT is is not like they don't produce it in Labs I think you can produce it in a lab I think you can but the precursors of it are very tightly controlled by the DEA like you can't like if they found out that you were buying a certain amount of this chemical that You' use to make the synthetic version of it they would flag you gotta but the plants are legal so you could go online there was a guy that got arrested and they took all of his money and locked him up in jail it was think I think it was called Happy Frog or something like that one of the the name of his company I don't remember the name of his company but he sold all these legal plants but the plants were all totally legal but he sold them with the pretense that you could take these plans and extract DMT from them and then he
was he was arrested for that because he was putting aamb B together for you yeah well he was allowing you to find the source to do it yourself yeah but even though what he was selling was legal I think he got off I'm kind of speaking out of school here because it was a few years back and I didn't totally pay too much attention to it but it it is in so many different sources and it's a hallucinogenic yes it well it's a human neurotransmitter and in an incredibly potent drug that's also the most transient drug ever exist or one of the most transient drugs ever um observed so if you get like if say if you smoke DMT like I I did it like I said last week you're blasted to the center of the universe for about 15 minutes and then you're back to Baseline like you're completely sober in 15 minutes CU your body knows exactly what to do with it yeah your body knows exactly what to do with it because it's it's such a normal part of your your Chemistry that your your body can bring it back to Baseline within minutes it's weird it's the weirdest [ __ ] ever and the weirdest aspect of it is while you're blown out like blown out in this intense psychedelic State you immediately think I'm here all the time I've been here before I know I know what this is it does it's not unfamiliar it's completely alien but yet familiar at the same time so Dodie in all those iwas experiences that he had when he was talking about all these flashbacks all this craziness what happens is you open up this it's a weird effect where if you do DMT and you have these powerful experiences you open up this door and I don't know what the chemical effect of it is or what the mechanism is but something happens when you open up that door where you can open up that door again even in a dream and so the speculation is that what what what happens when people have like near-death experience es when people have alien abduction experiences when people have these crazy things they say happen to them most likely what it is is some sort of a weird and dogenous dump of DMT like you know something can happen to you when you get this crazy adrenaline rush they believe that it's possible that something can happen to you and you get a crazy DMT Rush that it's it's it's very difficult to to access but that
it's a function of the brain and it's causing you to for lack of a better word is causing you to trip yes but you might perceive it as a me you could perceive it at well it feels as real if not more real than reality itself cuz it's intensely colored and brightly lit and the the there's no borders to things but yet there are it's very very very difficult to describe I'm doing a terrible job of describing it and all around you it's alive with entities and these entities are communicating with you both with sound and with visual cues it's a very very very weird trip like you think in in a negative way or if you try to control it they'll like literally shake their finger you go but then if you get it right it Cals down like it's it's like a lesson in how to think it's a very very bizarre bizarre trip the most bizarre at of all the psychedelics by far the way I describe it is mushrooms times a million plus aliens yeah it's the mandala it's the center of the the of the mandala of all this is how McKenna described it the mandala of all the different psychedelic experiences the center of it the the literally the the [ __ ] point zero The Event Horizon of that is DMT so do you feel like uh to to to do it do you feel like you're being recreational or constructive constructive I try not to do anything recreationally I smoke a little weed recreationally have a drink recreationally but I think psychedelic experiences they're so beneficial I've gotten so much benefit out of them that I don't I don't like I feel like it'd be it'd be a waste to not you mean like personally or as a performer personally personally yeah well as a performer you know eventually personally first and as a performer I benefit from the the you know whatever I get out of it personally yeah yeah because oh yeah I mean all tied together I'm with you but but you don't you don't think of funny jokes or something no they the people don't tell you funny jokes you can put into your act nope nope nope no it's all about correcting your your [ __ ] it's almost like all right you haven't been here a while come on and we got to say it's like going to the dentist you haven't been a dentist in like 2 years you're one of those [ __ ] guys like oh sit down sit down sit down see what the
[ __ ] you got going on here oh you got this why you thinking about this don't think about that this is stupid you're wasting your time thinking it's like they sort of explain to you the the wasted paths that you're taking with your thinking and your mind and then even with your actions so how long the how long do the 15 minutes feel like well I did several in a day so I did uh three three or four 15minute ones in a row so uh you know like just blast off come back to Bas line hit it again but would you be like man that was just 15 minutes or would you feel like you were gone like days no it doesn't feel like days it it it's it feels like it's when you're in the state itself it almost feels like time doesn't exist like you're not see ex unless you think about it too much like sometimes I thinking about like I don't want this to end so quick and then they like stop thinking all this stupid [ __ ] like you're wasting all your time it's like imagine enjoying a great movie and being like man this movie's going to end soon [ __ ] I know that feeling this movie's only 10 minutes in and I know it's only got an hour and 50 minutes to go [ __ ] I wish it could go on forever that's a wasted thought like why not just be in the moment and enjoy it so it's you know that that expression be in the moment is like so over done and hippie and [ __ ] yoga like so many people say things like that it just makes you moan like oh we shut the [ __ ] up because it's like it's so cliche and annoying when they say I know you're saying there's wisdom in it unfortunately there just so many of these [ __ ] fake spiritual people that clog up all these words and they ruin some of these definitions because you know oh just be in the moment find your Center oh [ __ ] you okay I'm not listening to your like I used to take yoga from this guy that was a total [ __ ] artist he was a good yoga instructor but he was he was intoxic ated by the fact that he was teaching yoga and that all these people came to him and his ego would feed off of this this yoga class to the point where he would say all these things and you would see people roll their eyes like my wife used to hate him because he was so cheesy and then he' like kind of hit on the ladies that would be there and he wanted up [ __ ] some dude's wife and
it was like a disaster left his wife and she left her husband and now they're miserable together was like he was like a fake spiritual guy and these fake spiritual people they had have this way of ruining a lot of like really wise Notions and one of them is they use it using it as a tool well you know it's like or they're claiming to be enlightened when really they're just a student on the path and maybe they have some good ideas along the way to Enlightenment but they're not quite there yeah you know there's a lot of that man it's like a lot a lot of people searching like this these new age type people that are searching for some sort of a meaning and if you find the wrong Shaman you find the wrong Yogi you find the wrong Guru you could go down a bad path I mean the guy who's ah head of beam yoga is got like all these rape allegations sexual assault allegations he drives a [ __ ] Bentley everywhere he's loaded he's got [ __ ] gold crusted Rolexes and he's like clearly not a spiritual enlightened guy but he's the head of this whole beak movement which is like filled with all these pseudo spiritual people you know I was sitting there one day reading a um a book reading Al Sharpton's most recent book why would you do that a long story written in crayon no my agent U my literary agent uh represented El Sharon did a book with L Sharpton so I'm reading an El Sharpton book and and I'm sitting there and a and a guy is coming down the road walking a dog and he looks like a like he's like a yachtsman you know the guy walking dog is like clearly a yachtsman like that's his world and he comes up and says to me you know I had a meeting with him one time and he came up in a chafford car and he had a Rolex watch on and he proceeded to tell me how he lives on a $23,000 year salary it's like it's wow it was I don't know how old that story was I don't know how true that story was but it was kind of like he was sort of like pointing out the you know well there was a guy once like a like a like an apparent discrepancy there's a massive discrepancy there was a guy once that was on this radio show that I was listening to that was um the head of a corporation that was approached by Jesse
Jackson because there was some something had gone on something where there racial insensitivity was you know was they were been accused of something that was racial racially insensitive so Jesse Jackson came on and essentially the pitch was you are going to hire my company to give seminars on racial sensitivity and it's going to cost you4 million dollars a year and if you do not we are going to protest you we're going to make it miserable we're going to cost you far more than it would than you would spend to have my company come in the Rainbow Coalition or whatever the [ __ ] isn't that like isn't thatal it's not illegal it is and it isn't I mean it is illegal if you call it extortion but what he is essentially saying is it's within your best interest to align your it's an out of court settlement yeah exactly an out of court settlement that they profit from in an incredible way but he had like all these crazy demands like he wanted to have shrimp cocktail like like Jesse Jackson had all these like very specific demands as far as the the kind of food the amount of food that he was to be given what what was supposed to go on you know what kind of car he was supposed to be picked up in and you know you look at Reverend Jesse Jackson he's he's a religious man or where's he getting all this [ __ ] money he is a wealthy wealthy guy and he's Wealthy by being what they call a race pimp and that's how this guy was describing it he's like he's a race pimp like this guy finds these scenarios where something goes wrong moves in and then extracts money from the situation I should send you my L Sharpton book I won't read it you won't read it there's a really good chapter there's one really good chapter in that book where he talks about um how people's positions on things evolve over the years and I thought that was good then there's a really horrible chapter where he talks about how his role in comforting Michael Jackson's family upon Michael Jackson's death where he was he's he sort of presents himself as the Great [Laughter] Hero know I I think I read you know my agent was like you're the last guy in the world I would expect to read a um a
Sharpton book but I told myself here's the thing that's probably why I'm reading it because all my life I've heard about this guy I really don't understand who he is or what he does well he's to me it's just one of these names you know it's like almost like he's almost got a name like Peta yes where people hear it and they roll their eyes do you know what I mean like it's almost become like um he' cringe to hear someone say this but it's almost become like like he's almost the punchline yes he is a punch line for so many people you know so many pundits and commentators you know yeah but I realized I was kind of victim of that or not victim of I was like uh doing that right I couldn't tell you what the guy did I couldn't tell you what he stood for but you thought of him as a punch line yeah I just knew that of him you know well you know the toana Broly the the case that got him famous yeah he he talks about that yeah which is hilarious I mean he represented a woman who made up a fake allegation of being raped by white people and wrote things on her body and it turns out none of it happened she just made it all up and he was demanding you know Justice and all this crazy [ __ ] and he was you know on every television show and all throughout you know the the news cases and all this different [ __ ] and it turned out that what he was doing was just it was based on nothing it was based on all lies it was based the the entire scenario jet jetted him into the public eye it was a fake scene yeah I can't tell you whether I read that in this book or whether one of the many people who saw me reading the book and had to come up and give me their two cents on the subject told me that amazing that the guy became famous for demanding Justice for something that never took place but it's a perfect ology where it's a perfect representation of who he is I mean and also how bizarre our sensitivities are to race that this [ __ ] clown is on MSNBC or CNBC or whatever the [ __ ] is giving his opinions on all these different things and his opinions are brutally dumb like his his way of commun when he has to communicate when he has to debate people who are intelligent or have nuanced opinions on these subjects like his his clear and obvious bias and his his cookie cutter idea of racism in
America like racism is a real issue without a doubt but having a guy like that represent the black community almost Fosters racism it's almost like if I was a racist and I wanted to make sure that people had a negative opinion of black people I would take the most clownish cartoon versions of black leaders and feature them prominently on television in order to reinforce reinforce these ideas of these cartoonish figures being this is what represents the black community isn't the black community silly you know and that's what happens instead of getting a Neil degrass Tyson a Cornell West instead of getting these super intelligent very articulate people with broad broad perspectives you get this goofball with a [ __ ] conked hair and you know a stapled stomach and he's a he's a goofball yeah and his many thousand suits on television demanding you know reparations for slavery it's like come on man like this is it's almost a setup it's almost like to engineer racism Jesse Jackson barely can speak English I mean he's obviously an educated guy he obviously is articulate but his if you're a professional speaker which essentially he is his ability to enunciate words is so sloppy and so confusing it's like do you know how you sound yeah like you almost sound like you're doing this on purpose you know when is when you talk like you you listen to him talk it's almost like like he's too lazy to say the words in a way that everyone can understand them or he like there's like a he likes the Cadence of it in some way yeah they used to do does Neil degrass Tyson ever speak on does he ever have you ever heard him speak on Race talk about race I never have heard him so I mean I only hear him talk about what he talks about professionally yeah he's talked about some other science-based things not just uh astrophysics I've I've heard him speak on genetically modified foods and some misconception people yeah yeah I've I heard him speak on some other things that people some misconceptions of you know just sort of science-based stuff but I haven't heard him speak on Race he's an interesting guy he's a fun dude man thing um the incomprehensible universe that series it's an amazing series I think it's like
I think it's what it's called have you seen the cosmos the the new version of it I it's great it's great because it also he made it very accessible this version of the con like the the story of uh girano Bruno I think that's his name the guy who was burned at the stake for suggesting that the universe is infinite and that they were like what you [ __ ] crazy [ __ ] we're going to light you on fire unless you tell the unless you repent that there's a brick wall there's a brick wall out there there's a ceiling out there and behind it is a door and gods out there you know and he he was convinced that that wasn't the case but he did the whole girano Bruno thing he did it in animated form he made an animation of it which is fantastic he also made an animation form which you'll be interested in showing how wolves became dogs and over the course of human civilization evolving how these wolves who had become friendly with people had eventually gotten to the point where the people were feeding them and the Wolves stayed close and then those wolves had slowly but surely morphed into dogs that's on Cosmos yes yeah amazing because it there's so much wild stuff coming out of um did you see you you know about those Russians that were taking Fox taking foxes doing selective breeding on them just how fast you can change stuff man yeah yeah amazing you can yeah I mean all you all you need to do is look at what they've done with dogs you know the the the time that human beings have been I mean what is the established timeline for agricultural civilization is what is it 10,000 years something that 10 11,000 years anatomically modern here like you pick your number but 100,000 yeah so in that time which is a blink of an eye you've made a [ __ ] poodle out of a wolf yeah man you've made a Chihuahua when when Americans first first passed into North America there weren't like breeds of dogs just like the dog they had that's crazy you know they weren they didn't have like that's 1400 1400 1500 no no no 15 probably some I mean it's a hotly debated number but sometime between like some four our oldest sites are 14,000 years but people think there hasby sites we haven't found or we'll never find that are older maybe 20,000 years but when like like say when like Daniel Boone came across America oh
no they had breeds they had breeds oh yeah when did they start having like when is it EST I have no idea I have no idea so fascinating there's probably like I'm sure there's great stuff written about it but you know like they had so when when the first Americans migrated into North America they were traveling with a domestic version you know something they had been domesticated for quite some time a domestic version of the Eurasian wolf and then they came down and here you had a number of wild canines you know wolves which the animal they were traveling with could breed with Wolves you now find that in certain cases wolves and coyotes they don't they don't I don't think they always put off viable young but they do think that there are hybridization events between wolves and coyotes so at some point these guys came down with this euras wolf there was prob almost certainly there had been some in you know some in breeding with wolves and then out of that stock created Lord knows what all you know because by the time Lewis and Clark like you know when Lewis and Clark were out and they were eating dogs of plains tribes they hadn't those dogs weren't showing like there hadn't been dogs that came from Europe from colonists hadn't put dog blood into the dog blood and they came and they had a dog that looked like yeah what they call like like a what they now call in Vietnam like a meat dog like just like a mut dog you know multi like with multiple colors on them there was a recent thing um where they've done a genetic study on certain um hybrids where they found a hybrid that's part coyote part wolf and part domestic dog is that right yeah is really recent really recent that kind is surprising because one of the things people look at is uh why are you know coyotes in the East are just different bigger mhm you know they feel that there's that that there was hybridization events of wolves and coyotes they gave you kind of like a like a bigger coyot e and you have smaller coyotes in the west yeah this is uh from The Washington Post uh coyote wolf hybrids are prowling Rock Creek Park in DC suburbs what the [ __ ] man this is a yeah this is a coyote
wolf hybrid in the Washington DC suburbs is that nuts Koi Koi wolves and they've uh they've Rec recently um established that wolves have returned to California the first known wolf you know within x amount of coming out of where I'll find out coming out is it is it like uh the red wolves coming out of Arizona New Mexico I I'll tell you right now because it's a uh a totally um new thing that they've proven from yeah this it's a where they've established it um the wolf's controversy rule return to California it's on Popular Science magazine uh popular opinion is divided on how to manage the grey wolf so it's a grey wolf 2011 a male grey wolf called O7 left his pack in Oregon and traversed 1,200 miles to California where the sort of travel isn't atypical for Grey Wolves the terrain O7 covered set him apart from the pack he became the first confirmed wolf in California in almost a century no kid yeah and so had he been collared in Oregon he must have been it's a good question it must have right if they figured out where he is you know a guy in Missouri one time killed one outside of his chicken cou he thought was a coyote that thing had come from Michigan's Upper Peninsula well there was a guy crossed the Mississippi they killed a a mountain lion in Connecticut that turned out to be from South Dakota yeah you hear about that [ __ ] thing I'm telling you I like I don't mean to say like I was on this story long ago but you know my entire life this debate about where L mountain lions that turn up in the East or where wolves that turn up in weird places my entire life has been this battle between people who be like oh it's Escape pets it's Escape pets you know and now it's becoming clear in so many of these cases it's not things just leave now and then and they have a very clear sense of purpose and they travel tremendous distances yeah this is o s they actually got a trail Camp photo of this thing in California yeah and used every time someone saw something like that people be like oh you didn't see it or you saw an escape pet and you'd think that like every household had a mountain lion pet to account for all the lions the guys would be like it was a damn lion like I
found where something that killed a deer I went back the next day there's a lion sitting there be like it's an Escape pet this is pretty proficient you know and it's my whole life has been going on and now finally I mean the guys that have been pushing for this forever finally got to feel a lot better when now that through tracking devices we're able to go like yeah a wolf decided one day you know to leave there and go down there's a Grizzly that one day decided to Mosey out of the Rockies and made it out into eastern Montana you know there's an elk that did a many usually it's you know usually these wide range imp Predators they got Wolverines that I was just reading the thing about they had a Wolverine I back up a little this this winds up being interesting they did a r they're doing a radio collar studying Alaska about a road they're thinking about putting a road in into the Juno area Okay so they've been doing a study on animal movements in that area to try to anticipate how this road might impact wildlife and then and then to just to see about their migration patterns and movement patterns they went in and collared a bunch of stuff they had a radio collared moose fall into a crass in a glacier and then a radiol bear tried to go in there and get him out and fell in and died and I think that was then scavenged by a radio colled Wolverine they also had a wolverine they had a wolverine collar there get caught by a Trapper 250 mies away in BC wow 250 miles it walked Wolverines are really rare to find right they're rare to find like I'm telling you that's one of the last things of large you know like North American fauna that's one of the last things I'm looking for you're looking for a Wolverine I have not laid eyes on one my friends uh Banis saw one Caribou hunting uh my brother Danny was hunting spring Bears one time and saw Wolverines digging through the debris field at the base of an avalanche looking for Critters that got swept up in the Avalanche I got a handful of friends that seen one I haven't seen one yet those just Badgers and Wolverine those types of animals are so bizarre dude I was driving I was driving down the hall Road the the trans Alaska
pipeline Road and you know you're up like if you go if you're on that road like the pipe the road that parallels the Alaska pipeline Dalton Highway if you're on that road and you go west you're not going to you know you depending on your line of travel you won't hit another road till you're in Europe you know and you're in Russia and then you go the other direction you're going to get way into Canada before you hit a I mean you're out in the middle of nowhere not in the middle of nowhere but it's very remote relative to anything we can comprehend down here driving on that road one time um all out steps of links whoa okay and it looks like it's like a cat with a baby's face on it like a human baby's face on it man and I'll steps the links and like it's level just like to be to have an amimo look at you like that and it just utter lack lack of comprehension like I can't say this for sure but more than other animals you feel that he had never seen that before never seen a person it's just like usually like you'll see an animal he cuts out on the road right and he sees a car and he gets that like oh [ __ ] you know this ain't good you know based on whatever experiences he's had or responses that he's witness from his mother okay or like some sort of like they kind of get tense they're they're gauging risk but just this thing steps in the road and just looks kind of like like this look on his face and I'm anthropomorphizing here but look on his face is like no what in the hell is that followed by utter lack of interest and just like left he's like he looked I don't know what that is I can't see this bringing anything good to me and then wandered off and it was one of the weird like that's the only one I've seen look at that thing they don't even look real no man I'm telling you what freaky they are so tall like how tall this this thing is like this High man so like two feet high just yeah leggy though huge feet just a weird look you know they're like Snowshoe hair Specialists man they like to hunt Snowshoe hair so it has big feet so they can get through the snow the snow quiet Hunters yeah they're Snowshoe hair specialist Cameron hannes was telling me about bears that um come out of
hibernation and as they come out of hibernation is the same time where the Moose are stuck in this snow and that it's just W sloppy snow so the moose are like plotting and these bearss come out and they haven't eaten anything in months cuz they just been hyting but they see these moose and they can't help but kill them so they just go on these Rampages killing every moose they find and just leaving their carcasses because they can't really handle meat yet yeah know I got they but they they like to have the opportunity at it well they just their instincts they just cuz when they come when they do come out you know they'll come out and eat grass for a while eat vegetation but they do spend a lot of time um following that they spend a lot of time looking for you know what we call Winter kill um just Scavenging you know carcasses they can find and then they Hammer Hammer fawns and that's something people used to not realize about black bears is the high rates of like Fawn mortality you get from black bears on elk moose deer you know they they don't like it doesn't seem like they really go after the adults like healthy adults under normal circumstances but they really find out that black bears just turn up and hit Cales and fawns in the way that no one ever thought before they smell that placenta it's like we used to have this idea of them as being kind of like the Kindler gentler bear you know but they're they know these spots they turn up in these spots before things turn up there to drop fawns you know the second Mountain line or third Mountain line I ever saw I saw cutting through a bunch of elk Cavs in a cing area you can just imagine how much the thing like that can clean house yeah God damn when we were bear hunting I got to watch bears fight we watched a [ __ ] No Holds Barred brawl between this female bear with their two Cubs male who had come into the bait they would she [ __ ] went to war man the Bears the babies climbed up the trees they were way the [ __ ] up the trees like to the point where we were worried one of them got real squirly he was like kind of like upside down on the tree like he was way up there they're really young and uh the adults can't climb cuz they get tooo heavy yeah and this big male had come in and it was a big female and first the babies ran up
the tree and the female took off she left and then she was she just thought about it she you know what [ __ ] that and she turned around and attacked him turned around and challenged him and they both went up on their back legs and they were just going at it just and we were sitting there on the ground cuz Cameron's [ __ ] nuts he likes to hunt on the ground he looks a bow hunt no tree stand so we're just there like a a tree that's fallen and we're set up behind this tree and we're watching these [ __ ] you know 6 sft brown bears go on a war right in front of us I mean no more than 30 40 yards away they were duking out yeah you got to be wondering like in the middle of this fight all a sudden he comes rolling over and there's your ass sitting there yeah well I was knocked up man I had an arrow knocked and you know but I've remember being I've like such a little kid one of my earliest memories not earliest memories but I being a little kid and my dad got a phone call one night that one of his Hunting Buddies had was sitting on a bear bait with his boat and a s came in with Cubs and smelled them and shed her Cubs up a tree but they went up past him in the tree and then they started squealing and balling up there and she came up and mled his legs whoa yeah he yeah he went up in the hospital [ __ ] so she was small enough that she could make it up the tree she got up well she's up enough to get at his boots yeah but I mean they you know I mean most I don't know I I've heard that that some blackbears get too big to climb I don't know I mean they can climb pretty good I mean and I don't know to to what extent but I mean your typical bear is your typical black bear can get itself up a tree she went up a tree the one that we saw she went up a tree a little bit but only like maybe five or six feet where her kids went like [ __ ] they were 50 feet up I'm sure it depends a lot on the circumference of the tree and whatnot but for sure yeah but Grizzlies don't I mean they when they're young but when they get older they can't get up that tree yeah that's what they were saying they cuz they had tree stands there but he likes to hunt on the ground but he said if you see a Grizzly then we go up the tree stand for sure yeah yeah
there's a bunch right there it was kind of like that that's cute but it was crazy to watch them duke it out like right there in front of us I mean it was W it went on for a while and then he would come back and she would chase him off again and then finally he gave up but then uh as it got darker she took off and then a bunch of bears came in and when it's dark that's when it's really crazy Alberta's flooded with bears man they said that between depending on who you ask between three and eight per acre and they're dealing with 8,000 AC no not acre per square mile be super high per square mile that's what I meant and they're dealing with 8,000 square miles so he said there's just bears everywhere and so the first time I got there you know we we sat down and we waited I'm like where are all these [ __ ] Bears you know if there's so many bears like you think you would see one and then when you see one and then you see another and you don't hear them that's what's crazy cuz the ground is thick with Le and P needles and stuff so literally all a bear a bear like he's there looking at you you know from 70 80 feet away you know just you didn't even see him coming all a sudden he appears cuz it's so dense you there's so many trees up there I was calling turkeys one time and had a bear come behind me um you know like Predators when you're making when you're calling turkeys into spring you're making hen noises to track males um track the Toms but Predators will come to that noise noise and uh I had a bear come in behind me that I never heard until I heard it breathe it sounded like a dude and you're on the ground sitting I'm sitting on the ground and I hear I mean this thing was I mean right there like I heard it breathe over my shoulder how many feet yeah like from I don't know five six feet I'm just there but I when I turned I was scared but that was more scared when I turned he like turned himself inside out man just took off oh yeah it was amazing wow you know what funny we're talking about like bears climbing trees black bears and grizly beares um I wrote about this at some point but we my brother and I were laying on this Ridge one time hunting elk and like during the midday when it's warm like nothing happens you know
they'll just go sleep somewhere and wait for the Elk to come back out cuz they go into black Timber Just to feed to bed down so there's really no sense and there's nothing you can do you just sleep and at one point I wake up cuz I hear a no noise and I wake up and there's a black bear standing there and he goes off down this Ridge line and U I'm sorry just goes down off the ridge down toward the valley floor that night we headed out to go hunt uh we headed out to go hunt elk and we happened to go in the direction that the beared went and my brother still had a bear tag I had filled my bear tag but he still had a bear tag and as we're walking I hear the noise of its claws on the bark like a real loud you know like bark marks fa and Scratchy noise you imagine like what a cat would sound like or something scratching up something I'm like that must be that black bear so we go hauling ass up the tree thinking that we'll maybe get the bear up the tree and be able to check it out but you run up there it's not a black bear it's a s Grizzly standing there and she's got two Cubs that are about four or five feet up this tree and she's standing there at the base of the tree and she woofs at us like a dog like a wof barking you know and those cubs come down the tree and we're just standing right there man it's like you can't you can never say it was close to getting scratched unless you got scratched because you don't know what's in the animal's head but like reviewing it in my head that was one of that was like a very sketchy moment you know as that bear is kind of like cuz it's like the last thing you're supposed to do right is like mess with their cubs and here we are just running up on there and when she got those Cubs down out the tree and they started going up the hill away from us she was taking her paw and moving the Cubs with her paw wow pushing them ahead of her wow like the same way like you know you're like trying to get your kids to go where you want your put your hand your like got your hand on their head or some trying to guide them you know yeah she's like get going get going wow that was wild man but she could have spun around and just scratched us well they say that's the big reason why a lot of people hikers get attacked right it's a
female with their cut just coming across something yeah like I I just this blew my mind I just read that not a single boat bow hunter has been killed by a grizzly bear you know while bow hunting even though bow hunters get scratched up all the time like every year there's some guy getting scratched up not a single bow hunter has been killed by a grizly bear in at least 20 years wow you know and last year there was like three grizzly bear fatalities in Montana Wyoming well that was one of the things you saw on that hunt show was how difficult it is to bow hunt for Grizzlies because they first of all the Kodiak Island was very windy like these guys were like they were taking shots and the arrow would just just take off and miss the windy and yeah it's just miserable and wet you got to get so close with the B man that's the thing be it's one thing like be in a stand and waiting for a white tail to walk underneath you but to creep up on a [ __ ] giant 9- foot bear that's outside you got to get within 30 40 yards of this thing to get an accurate shot on it and it's windy and everything there but now in that show when they're doing that this happens a lot but I know that like shows don't show it and outdoor writers don't write about it but often times very often I I can't say it's the majority of time but like a very common practice when a guy's bow hunting brown bears is the minute that Arrow makes contact with that bear the guides lien it up with like a 375 H and H so they shoot it with a gun right after the minute that Arrow hits yeah that's probably smart I mean I saw that on a show it was a a bow hunting show where this guy shot a [ __ ] elephant with a bow and the Elephant turned and he like [ __ ] you and the Elephant starts running him and boom they shot him in the head with a rifle and like he's going to call that I hunted an elephant with a bow like the [ __ ] you did all you did was piss an elephant off and it charged you and these guides shot the elephant in the head they killed the elephant yeah I'm not I'm not diminishing the balls it takes to get in there like I watch a thing like you know I watch thing where uh Tom Miranda you know kills like a big Grizzly with his bow and by no I mean by any means like he it was like he got a
great hit on that bear that bear ran and fell over I'm not saying that's what I'm saying you hear about it so often you talk to guides so often and they even do with rifles right you know even a guy hits it with a rifle he's going to start pumping lead yeah cuz it's so hard to Anchor them and then they go in those Alders and you don't want to lose them take the initial shot they consider you shot that bear and then everybody else SHO you know whoever can can do a follow I really didn't like watching them shoot the elephant there's something to me about shooting some animals where it's like I don't get it like why I don't know why you would travel all the way to Africa to shoot an elephant with a bow while these people behind you rifle it and you're calling that bow hunting I wouldn't shoot a I don't I couldn't shoot an elephant just because I don't like I don't I didn't I don't have like a a context with the animal a cultural context do you know what I'm saying like with North American animal I find that generally when I go hunt something I like to have have experience with it and understand sort of you know understand it and it would for for African hunting for me to like enjoy hunt Africa I would probably want to go there just to have a look around and be there right and then maybe go again just for me personally then go again and I might enjoy hunting more once I sort of felt like I understood the animals you know or I understood like more about the biology and sort of like I just understood the area better it would make me feel more like like a like a like to what I want to have in a in a predator prey relationship we're going down to film this year uh we're going down to Bolivia and we'll go out hunting with Amar Indians or go along on a hunt with Amar Indians and um you know they they go out and do meat hunts for Kappy Bara Paca they bow fish for fish a lot one of the things they like to hunt is they like to hunt spider monkeys you know and I've always vowed like I'll never eat a monkey you know I used to always say that I'll never eat a monkey but now I'm GNA be down there and these guys you know presumably they're going to get a monkey they're going to cook it and you going to try it I can't decide man yeah I'm not into eating primates I
I just feel like you know I can't decide what I'll do when I'm sitting there I have to be do I ate dogs and didn't like it at all well you ate a Kyo which is crazy that bother me like that didn't bother me in like an emotional way but I'm saying I tripped out emotionally about eating a dog right so I can't imagine what I might suffer to be chewing up a primate I'm not and it's just like I remember reading one time and this kind of I was just explain this to my brother the other day when I was talking about this is conundrum I'm in where I was reading about a guy who was descri he was describing a hunt for monkeys and a dude hit a and he he was just observing he was observing South you know South American tribal hunters or Amar Indians he's observing them hunting monkeys and a monkey got shot in the back and a monkey with a dart and the monkey reached around and grabbed the dart whoa so it's that image that image is so burned in my head that I think like I don't know what I'll do man I'll be curious I'll be curious if the guys I work with if they want to eat the monkey or not yeah but there's so many weird things that you go like this though these guys are indigenous Hunters okay they hunt they they make own bows they live in the jungle like any kind of thing like if you went out and surveyed a 100 Americans 100 would say like by all means if anyone can justify hunting to be these boys right um they're going to be they're hunting whether you're with him or not so it's kind of like you look at well monkey's dead now you know yeah I guess I could see that I what I couldn't see is going there with a purpose to go shoot a monkey I guess if I was there experiencing what it is like for them and also if they offered me a like it was part of like you're you're taking into their home and they're cooking you a meal and they ask you you know they serve you what they eat maybe then I would eat it there's no way i' Sho there's no way I'd shoot a monkey yeah and by saying that I don't think that one shouldn't be allowed and whatever you know it just depends on the the consensus of biologists in whatever area whether it can warrant it or not
but no I wouldn't it just like I couldn't yeah I couldn't either but I know that they have issues with B Boons and people dude in Africa I it's just like I guess I I can't get it but in Africa you get the sense that people view like baboons almost like how you might like uh I hate to say it almost like you might look at like raccoons and AP possums that are getting into your dumpster yes but they they'll kill a baby they'll kill a human baby stolen human bab I don't know the first thing about yeah Cameron Haynes who just got back from Africa he shot a [ __ ] baboon over there shot a baboon with a bow and arrow I'm like why would you shoot a baboon and he's like they actually encourage you to shoot as many baboons as possible because they're overpopulated and they're really dangerous a friend told me man do uh do the guys in Africa eat the baboons no they don't eat the baboons and they don't eat the hyenas they don't like the hyenas no they kill them they kill them whenever they can because they're so overpopulated but they don't eat them but he ate a kudu he shot a kudu over there and ate that he said it was amazing yeah he said K kudu is like similar I guess in a lot of ways to deer elk and uh the way it tastes word overpopulated is such a weird word and it's such an abused word whenever I hear that I always get be like according to whose perspective because again and again we're told like deer overpopulated like yeah I mean from the perspective of some agricultural interests deer overpopulated from the perspective of Auto insurers you know deer overpopulated from the perspective of Lyme disease activists you know deer overpopulate From perspective of a dude who likes to eat a lot of deer you might be like now's the good old days man you know what I mean like this is perfect if I lived in some areas uh there's some areas of Western Massachusetts that are so flooded with deer I would definitely have one of those crazy bumpers on my truck you know they have those crazy big steel bumpers yeah well they make them specifically for deer too with stand a deer hit yeah there was one of them that they uh we we pulling up photos of the other day of 18 wheelers that they have these giant ones they put over the front of their trucks because deer you know
are so common in in a lot of these areas where they're transporting stuff and they had one where this deer it just it had hit it and the the guard did its job but the [ __ ] entire truck was just painted with blood you know cuz it 65 miles hour and you hit an animal it's basically a bag of blood it Vapor it vaporizes in such a disturbing way I recently wrote a thing about this on the on the mediator show website where I was talking about these recent controversies where someone will go and kill a African animal you know K like a lion post a picture great by the way tell people where they can get that because I loved your perspective on it and I loved one of the things you pointed out about you're seeing all these things where people are getting pissed off these pretty girls that are going over there and shooting these animals and a lot of it is sexism oh yeah man it P for a girl to go to African hunt pisses off people way more than for a dude to and also for a wealthy person hunt in Africa pisses off way more people than a middle class person hunting in Africa which is just weird like you know it's so beyond the biology it's just like weird you know sexual stuff it's weird Envy class Envy mhm however you want to think like whatever you want to determine about the legitimacy of hunting in Africa really have nothing to do with the gender of of the hunter yeah but this this thing like one point I try to make in that thing that I wrote you could you could find it if you just go you could probably even type in like uh Steven renella African hunting controversy or go to to the meater.com you'll find the article but but the point I make is when people look at at someone posing with an African animal like a lion they they I think people look at and they feel like they see a dead movie star because they don't know like all you know of that animal is sort of wildlife documentaries and then cartoon versions and The Lion King it's like you feel like you're looking at that but in America we drive down the road and we see just like contorted p pulverized deer carcasses yeah you can't escape it yes yeah and so I feel like it's never going to be as offensive you know when someone sees a dead deer it's not as shocking to them
as be like it's the animal from the movies right and they killed it yeah that anthropomorphizing of an animal is a real issue when it comes really feels to people more like I I remember a friend of mine who worked in the environmental movement or I shouldn't say that because that she was a conservationist okay so she worked in the conservation movement and she was laed about um half jokingly about charismatic megap so that so much mental energy of Americans gets tied up in the preservation of charismatic megap and those things become such money SNS that we miss opportunities to understand like this vast Suite of other creatures out there that doesn't make it onto calendars and she was if I remember I think she was speaking um of the amount of research dollar and dollars and public interest and things that go into wolves like understanding wolves you know and there's all the other animals that she count as like non-charismatic megaphon you just can't get someone to like care about them yeah you know and I think that's that's one as far as conservation goes I think that's one thing that that conservation organizations that are based off of specific animals will always tell you is that they're looking at like like Apex or Keystone Cornerstone species so like a group like the national Wild Turkey Federation or the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation they'll point out they'll be like yeah this is about elk we have elk on our symbol you might think that we fetishize elk but I can tell you this what's good for Elk is good for everybody yeah you know it's one of the most demanding like least tolerant things and so if you preserve elk wintering habitat you're also at the same time preserving the habitats of so many other species and you might not say the same thing about if you went and preserved the habitat of you know some animal with a more restricted home range or something it might not blossom outward to offer protection for all these other things so that's one way in which like the charismatic megaphon thing winds up playing out is people go like yeah but by helping him I'm helping everybody I'd like to have something on
for my calender people have that aversion to uh trophy hunting that's one of the other things that that drives people nuts about Africa is that people are going over there for blood lust they're going over there just to kill they want to stuff it and put on their wall this beautiful animal that should just be observed and appreciated for what it is yeah I that's something I struggled with earlier I made a ter about something being like a like like a semantics thing because if you go and hunt and you keep something like you have uh right here in your studio you have a a deer antler you got like a deer skull right by really any definition you'd say like you'd be like well that's a hunting trophy you know does that make you then a hunting TR Like A Trophy Hunter even though you ate the deer to be a non- Trophy Hunter would that mean that you should have thrown that deer head in the garbage in order to be more Pier or is it more Pier that you'd have that you'd maintain that emblem and pay respect to the animal and perpetuity by having its head here so it's like you kept a trophy you kept the meat and kept the trophy but when people hear Trophy Hunter I think what the what that means in our culture is that someone just hunts for that purpose like he just wants to go kill that thing and this comeing from guys never hunted in Africa but so much of the controversy about Africa is that people are going there and killing animals just for the head and bringing them home in that way you're probably trivializing the experience but you're also not really looking at the broad picture of how game gets managed there and the importance that the commodification of wildlife plays in Africa where here we have public owned publicly owned Wildlife you know so and we have a really strident system where stringent system where we can protect legally protect stuff but in Africa there's a great argument to be made for if it wasn't for the value of those animals to westerners if it wasn't for the hunting industry those animals wouldn't be in those places where they are yeah to have those animals there's way too many forces and factors that would have led to those being like ravaged ecosystems from hunting from people I mean hunting from people who are starving or who are
wanting to graze Livestock in those areas and the fact that you bring in a currency and you monetize them enables people to preserve these large tracks of land and have animals on there so you can look at like what is Joe blow's motivation Joe blow's motivation might be he thinks it'd be sweet to have a zebra hiide on his floor and you can condemn Joe Blow for thinking that but you really to be fair you have to look at the impact that that money that he spent to get it has on the broader economy and on the wildlife politics of that place so it's way more complicated than what anyone individual's motivations were you know and it's just I just CAU people and I and I I'll tell you what I've had my share of looking at pictures of guys hunting in Africa and being like dude you just went out and paid someone he show that's and you're like well that's what one of those is and shot it I've felt that a thousand times looking at those pictures but it's one of those things that the more I've learned about it and spoke to people who've gone there and and read about it the more I've come to admit that you know what what's going on in Africa is vastly more complicated than what you're going to get from reading about internet controversies of people posting pictures you really need to study up on that stuff before you condemn it because I think you'll be you'll be kind of shocked by some of the stuff you learned if anybody's interested in it further we're just about out of time but Louis thoro has a documentary THU how do you say his name THU th Louis THU has a documentary about uh African hunting camps where kind of goes into great detail with these guys that run these camps about how these animals they they essentially wouldn't be there if it wasn't they would be extinct we we we're out of time right okay um all right dude uh your book you got that the Buffalo book's published oh no you know my first book um which never had a chance in the real world scavengers guide to O cuisine it came out a long time ago but I got the rights to it back right and I published it digitally as a scavengers guide um I hope people go read it it never got read when it came out like not like my other books did man and I and like I said they just gave me my rights
back how can they get it how can someone get it oh it's on every place you can buy digital books okay we'll put Amazon everywhere we'll put a link up to it uh after the show and I also put a link up to the Daniel Boone thing that you did the animated thing that was just up uh dude time flew it's over hey thank you for having me out anytime man anytime wish you live closer we do it all the time well you are kind of closer now and we're gonna be real close when we're sharing the same tent pretty close all right folks uh thanks to our sponsor thanks to Blue Apron go to blueapron.com Rogan and uh get two mails for free thanks also to meundies go to meundies.com Rogan get 20% off your first order and go to rogan.com and get 25 bucks off of any Ting device all right you [ __ ] we'll be back soon uh tomorrow in fact see you soon bye [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]