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[Music] podcast by night all day dakota challenge brother how are you good to see you what's up man you wrote a book man i did i did with rob o'neil the way forward yeah master life's toughest battles and create your lasting legacy what uh what drove you to this you know like i i think that there was like a point in my life to where i kind of just you know kind of put it all together like wanting to help people you know like the way forward there's always a way forward you know my my life's been such a [ __ ] show so many ways um and obviously robs has too that was one thing we could relate on is like you know we both came from two different places did two different things but like there's always a way forward you know focusing on what matters was there a time in your life where you didn't think there was a way forward were you yeah yeah i mean i wrote about that my first book about you know a time that um i just didn't know if there was a way forward but you know what what i what i learned was is like you know when you don't see a way forward it's because your purpose is yourself and it's not other things right people that people that are lost or i feel like when i'm lost is when i'm too busy focusing on things for me and my my purpose is me and it's not like the things that are around me the things that matter look what do you mean you know like my kids like my friends my circle right like doing something bigger than me like focusing on something that's that's bigger than than just you know trying to survive like okay well i'm gonna go pay my bills well that's not really a a great purpose right right but but finding something bigger that you could believe in like you know being a firefighter or being a good dad or you know just uh trying to have goals of fitness or start a company or all those things right so did you feel like uh at one point in time where you were only thinking about yourself and you didn't see there was any point
to it all is that yeah yeah i mean i got out of the marine corps and um you know i got out and it was all about me right it's like oh you know i uh i served this country this country owes me now um you know because look when you're in the military you're the whole time you're told you're a hero yeah you know what i mean like oh everybody's just they're they're you're just you're just greater people you know or all these things you sacrifice for this country this country owes you and i hate that word os right like ohs the only thing we owe is the bank um but you know i that that was where i was at and i was walking around blaming all my problems on you know well you know i i mean i'm drinking all the time wasn't alcoholic but just drinking all the time trying to you know overcome the pain of you know the stuff that i'd seen the things that didn't make sense and and then you know when you would try to question me or hold me accountable i'd be like well you didn't go through what i went through right and so how you gonna argue it um you know and i was surrounded by that i was i was the victim i made myself the victim of of life and you know at that point was where i got the lowest right like i i just couldn't you know because at some point like people are gonna they're gonna try to help you like that's the great thing about the world is people are gonna help you people wanna help but they can only help you so far like they're not gonna drown with you especially when you're not choosing to to get better and that was where i was at you know like just drinking all the time you know being i was i was an [ __ ] like i mean i'm still an [ __ ] but just a different way you know um i was an [ __ ] and just you know blaming blaming the world for my problems when really i was the problem you know i just didn't have anything bigger than me and i would surround myself by people who would who wanted to coddle me right like oh dakota you know what you've gone through you know you you deserve you know it's
okay this is normal for what you've gone through it's like no no no like that's what america is about is the comeback story right like everybody's gonna go through their problems everybody's gonna have their lumps but america they they want the comeback story you know what was it that made you turn around like did you have a moment did is it something you read is it something you learned no i um you know so i was living at my dad's house i was living with my dad my dad's just an incredible man and uh one night i was out drinking somewhere and i was driving home on this road and i just seen like the pain i was causing the people around me right like my dad was never gonna kick me out of the house but i mean i just seen like the disappointment right like the disappointment in people that i was that i was bringing and um i was driving down the road one night and i just said look this is it like i'm done i pulled over at my buddy's shop he had a welding shop and i because i knew that i didn't want to inconvenience anybody to have to well where's he at this huge search i knew he would be in at eight six six to eight in the morning he comes in every day i pulled over and uh parked right in front of the bay door and uh pulled my gun out and i stuck it to my head and squeezed the trigger and like somebody had unloaded that gun i'd shot it that day actually i shot this glock 40 that day um and it was the loudest click i've ever heard in my life and probably the quickest sobering thing that i've ever seen holy [ __ ] um and so i sat there and i uh i i just told myself that if i'm gonna continue to live life like i am and waste it then i know how to load this gun i need to just rack it back and get it over with but i just made this deal with myself
that if i'm gonna put put the car in drive and go home that like this is not an option ever again and um i you know god gave me a different had a different different different outcome for me and i drove home and ever since then i mean i mean you know look i think we all i think we all go through moments where we don't know the there's always these moments where we don't know if we can get out of it right like that's normal yeah but for that to stay that way is not normal right and that was you know i i like slowed up on drinking i didn't stop obviously i didn't really slow up as where i needed to be until i had my child but i got a lot better right i started surrounding myself with different people people who weren't going to buy in and support my [ __ ] you know so that moment when the gun went click like in your mind is there like a clear change between before that moment and after that moment was there like a i mean was it was there was it like a realization was it was just like you feel like you got a second chance at life like yeah i mean look i've yeah i mean i've been in so many situations where i was supposed to die or i thought i like there's been at least five or six situations where it wasn't that i thought i was gonna die it was that i knew i was gonna die and um the combat situation combat situations right it's totally different experience though you know this one was like as i get like like why like you know and i think at that moment i realized that i was only feeling sorry for myself because if my teammates like if losing my teammates you know it i mean it sucks like it
still sucks like i i sometimes i don't even know if i have even came to the realization that i'll never see my guys again um and i don't know why it's kind of weird but you know i don't know why but i think that like i just realized that i need to live a life if i don't want to do it for myself then i need to live a life that's worthy of their sacrifices right like how stupid is it how selfish of it of me someone who has seen what the cost of freedom is or someone who has seen the sacrifices that people have gave who don't get it don't get it tomorrow they gave their today so that we can have it tomorrow and how selfish of it is for me to walk around and and and you know be a drunk [ __ ] and that's the representation that i'm going to represent their sacrifices like it's it's just it's such a um it's just not right and that was at that moment that all that started to come together that no no i just feel sorry for myself not them they don't feel anything so i'm feeling sorry for myself and as i'm doing that i'm wasting days that they i guarantee they wish they had yeah um it's such a common problem with veterans i mean i believe at one point in time i don't know what the status is now but at one point in time more veterans had died by suicide in afghanistan then had died from combat yeah i mean i've lost more guys since being home to suicide than i ever lost in combat what is um let's see what the number is see if you can find there i think just just google more veterans die from suicide than combat because i think that was what they were trying to uh drill into people is that asking people to go over there and fight and to see the horrors that they see and to to see friends die and loved ones die and then ask them to come back and have life just be normal look at this four times as many troops and vets have died by suicide as in combat yeah holy [ __ ] yeah so this is not a an uncommon problem it's it's a giant problem
yeah i mean it's a huge problem they don't i don't mean i don't know what kind of training they give you when you're about to leave the military military or when they're when you're returning from combat but do they try to give you any sort of an understanding of how to cope with this kind of stuff yeah i mean you know it's it's obviously gotten a lot better right i mean it was more of the tough love i mean it's more the more that mental health is accepted i mean i mean you look i mean to be honest i mean as men 10 15 years ago it wasn't something it was looked at as weak right you didn't hear a lot about it it seems like somewhere along the line i mean i don't know what the statistics show but it seems like somewhere along the line it became way more common to know people to kill themselves yeah yeah i mean and i i didn't underst i didn't know about it until obviously the military right i mean i went in at 17. and um but no there wasn't a lot of talk about it and um you know like the more the more we were in combat the more you started to see it right and uh yeah i mean this thing of ptsd but i mean ptsd is something that that the world suffers from it's not something that's only to veterans right but don't you think that veterans have it in a larger experience if you experience combat i mean the amount that they have i mean so many guys that i know like yourself or some many my other friends that are veterans they just have memories that they can't shake i think that uh you want to talk about the group of people that have it the worst is our first responders cops cops firefighters emts like like i the stuff that i've seen as being a firefighter um sometimes like combat was it's no comparison really yeah i mean and so you know and over there the mind like the you know the mindset's different right like like i mean
most of the people that we were part of like we were there to fight right so it's it's like it's it's almost like you know watching someone in the octagon fight versus watching someone on a street fight or get jumped right it's a different ball game and um you know everybody's suffering right i mean and so i think that like the mental health aspect yeah i mean it's a huge huge thing um but i also think that that the mindset the approach that we take on it is important as well right like like i don't need to um i don't need to i don't need to be coddled right like okay i have i have ptsd check um but that doesn't give me like a card to blame well why i'm an alcoholic or why i'm not getting help or or why i hit my wife or why i'm in fights you know i mean like well let's get help like like let's get help and let's want to get better you know there's just a fine line of of of using it as an excuse versus as what's what's real on it right and no one can identify that but it's like at some point you have to look in the mirror and one i mean look jocko talks about extreme ownership right you have to look in the mirror and at the point that you can take responsibility for your actions you can then change them so when you think about ptsd and you think about the effect that it has on you um is being a firefighter does it compound all of the the ptsd that you experience as a combat veteran i mean does it is it yeah i don't know like i was that this was a conversation i was having this morning i don't know like um for me i've changed my mindset um for me i mean there are some stuff that bothers me i mean obviously i look every time it changes you um or for me it does and but now i look at it like when i come in
and and and i'm with i'm there when somebody you know passes away um i look at it as an honor right like i i got to share that moment with them and as long as i can do i'm doing whatever i can to make that moment better for them then that's all i can do right and uh i'll do whatever it takes to make that moment better but at some point i we have we really have no control of anything in life we we have some control right but yeah the those kind of experiences like the experience of seeing someone die for a lot of people it it doesn't just change you but it it makes you i don't know what the best way to say it is but you're just devastated by it and every time it happens it becomes compounded it's more and more and more and is there like one of the things that i've thought about a lot with police officers because i feel like look there's bad cops we all know there's bad cops just like there's bad everything else in life but i think that most cops are the experiences that they have in situations where their life is threatened situation where they pull people over they have no idea if this person has a gun if this person's a criminal they just don't know there's so many moments in their life where they i'm sure they've seen all the youtube videos that i've seen yeah you know where cops get shot at and cops get killed run over by cars and all that crazy [ __ ] yeah like that that has got to be always chipping at your mental well-being yeah i mean well you're i mean you're always living in that that's that sense of of that fight right that fight or flight and yeah i mean look i the respect i have for cops is just it's astronomical right like you know being on scenes and and seeing like look we're as firefighter we're kind of like the way the way i'll describe it is is cops are kind of like the dad
of of the country when they show up like nobody's happy like there's never a time that people are like you know like somebody's gonna be mad right yeah somebody's gonna be somebody's mad when the firefighters show up we're kind of like the cool uncles yeah i mean like we really can't what are we gonna do wrong right you're gonna help yeah and then uh you know when ems shows up they're kind of like the the moms right like they're the caring they're gonna they're gonna fix it they're gonna they're gonna they the empathy is there um and i'm not saying that all three don't have empathy i'm just saying that they all have to hold themselves in a different way because they're all there for a different role right and um you know being a cop you know look those guys are just they're incredible because they could go from coming over and and you know miss miss whoever miss you know miss nancy or whatever miss smith you know she's having you know she might think somebody's at her house or you know maybe the next door neighbor is a little too loud and you know he's got to handle it one way and then the next person that he pulls over um he could walk up to a car they could walk up to a car and pull a gun and shoot him yeah and any and they have to be ready for everything right and um yeah those guys are just they're they're a different they have to live a different life you know totally different life than everybody else and we expect them to just be able to do it wouldn't be able to handle it and the factor we don't take into account you know is the humanization factor right like i mean are you always on when you're having a bad day you know what i mean like right like the they're you know they their kid could have been late from school they could have a sick kid they could be arguing with their wife sure i mean like or
husband or whatever right and and we we don't ever look at that and say you know well what did they just go through what what what's going on there like they're they literally show up to fix everybody else's problems you know while they have to deal with their own you know and they're scrutinized on how they do it not just scrutinize but you know if they [ __ ] up it ruins their entire life yeah you know everything's on the line yeah it's um it's a very very very difficult job and i don't think it gets nearly the respect that it deserves and all we concentrate on is the ones that suck the the cops that suck at their job the cops that are [ __ ] or the cops that are abusive and that's what we think about that's it we think about cops that plant evidence cops that shoot people unnecessarily that's all we think about because they're the only ones that get attention yeah right like they're the only ones you see i mean it's kind of like everything it's kind of everything like like you only see the bad ones the media loves to focus on the bad ones because guess what hate and fear makes money you know i i truly believe that look and love will go further than hate and fear love love love 100 go further right and but hate and fear every like think about any time you feel fear or you hate that was put into you by somebody else 90 of time like look at the stuff we're scared of what because somebody told us right because you know what i mean it's like like what kind of stuff you mean i mean like i don't know like sometimes i you know i'll get anxiety about um well i mean just like right now like well you know well let's go pull our tool how about this toilet paper you're getting anxiety i don't know what i'm saying like no no no i'm saying like i'm not saying like whenever whenever the pandemic hit right you know it's contagious right like freaking out fear is contagious
somebody's seen somebody go buy toilet paper and it's like the next thing you know toilet paper is all out right like like it's it's con all these things are contagious and it's like fear sales fear i mean what like if you thought about it what was toilet paper going to do for you in this right and at the end of the day at the end of the day like we could live without toilet paper you know what i mean like it's not a survival instinct i think what happened during the pandemic was people were tested in a way that they had never been tested before like we had we had never experienced a moment in our life where there was a real fear that society was going to be completely disrupted and that a disease was going to ravage everybody and even though it turned out to be a terrible disease it wasn't nearly as bad as what we were fearful of what we were fearful of was some kind of plague that would just wipe everybody out and that i think that initial mindset that people had was very difficult to shake even now that you know kova this new variant this omicron is not nearly as dangerous it's much more contagious but not nearly as deadly there's some people that still want to treat it like it's the thing that's going to kill everybody they still want to have this sort of same mindset because that's the initial mindset they have so i think when people were stockpiling toilet paper and stockpiling food there was a fear a fear mindset a mindset of the unknown that gripped people that a lot of folks are just not willing to let go of yeah yeah i mean i yeah i mean that's a whole that's a whole thing that i don't yeah i don't understand yeah i mean well you know you've experienced a lot of like real danger and you know real life-threatening situations you've seen people you've taken lives you've seen people's you know lives leave their body it's a you know the level that's the thing that i one of the things that i truly appreciate about veterans is you don't get
to do what they do unless you've experienced massive amounts of adversity yeah just getting through i mean you're talking if you're talking about someone who's a seal just getting through buds i mean how what [ __ ] percentage of human beings that walk around could do that very few not very few they're different humans you know and it's because they've overcome adversity and for some people any kind of thing that throws their regular routine off track will [ __ ] them up hey um jamie can you tell jeff bringing the coffee and cups of water too was no cups for the water um yeah i mean but but don't you think that like you know the people who haven't i mean the only way you know you don't have you don't get exposed to adversity is by fear yeah right and so again yeah whatever's holding you back from doing what you want to do or trying things or experiencing things yeah it's never as bad i mean obviously there are some things that aren't as bad but most of the time you know you've been so worried about something and it's not really as bad as you thought it was right right time yeah and so that's my thing is it's like why were you why were you fearful of it right like they're like we i don't think that we were born with fear i mean i think we were born with like natural survivability and instinct right but i don't think you're you're born with you're definitely not born with hate right yeah you're definitely not born with hate i mean i think some people are i mean i think unfortunately i mean i'm just guessing i'm not really a psychologist but i think unfortunately there's a certain level of fear and anxiety i think kids do adapt or adopt rather from their parents i think there's some of it might even be in their genes you know people that are neurotic and and weirded out maybe they're modeling
their parents maybe they're paying attention to how their parents handle things and they they handle things similarly for sure or maybe it's it's passed down i think there's a lot of [ __ ] that's passed down to people you know i really do just like there's a lot of positive traits that get passed down to people i think there's a lot of negative ones too unfortunately and i think you know your children learn in many ways whether it's through genes or whether it's true experience they learn in many ways through the way your the parents handle stuff but do you think do you think that that's in your your dna or do you think that that's because that's how you seen it done right like it could be bold you know what i mean yeah it could be both but i also think it's like you i think you need some challenges you know some of my favorite people besides veterans are uh jiu jitsu people and one of the reasons why is because they experience so much adversity like and i mean like it's it's safe it's you know it's all controlled in a controlled environment but in that moment when someone's trying to strangle you and you're you're literally fighting for your life it doesn't feel safe it doesn't feel controlled someone's got your back and that that forearm goes underneath your neck and you're like oh [ __ ] like you you know the reality is you're playing a game and that game is i'm gonna kill you with my bare hands when that guy gets your back and gets your neck he just killed you and then you tap and you go again but even though you survive and even though it's safe it's a way of recreating it's like a fact a facsimile you know it's like a reasonable version of a life-or-death scenario that gets to play out all the time most of the time it's very peaceful most of the time it's fun you slap hands it's all good but there's moments in these struggles where you're out of breath and then all of a sudden this guy mounts you and you're like oh [ __ ] like those moments most people never experience that thing where you you have to push because you either you're gonna escape or you're gonna submit and
having moments in your life where you're really tested gets you to understand who you are gets you to understand where your character lies gets you understand what what your thresholds are what what your where your strengths are where your weaknesses are lets you strengthen those weaknesses in a very real usable way i think most people they don't experience enough difficult scenarios in their life and one of the things that i love most about jiu jitsu is you could just take a regular person and you could transform them and and through this difficult game that you're playing you can change the way you interface with reality you'll you'll have more character you have more more ability to withstand difficult situations they'll be more normal for you yeah i mean yeah i mean look you until you've gone through it i call it the lens of life you know your lens gets shaped on what to focus on by what you've seen through it right and kind of prioritizing um you know football was that for me i mean i do i don't i don't roll enough but like i do jiu jitsu but like um you know football was that for me growing up was it was about getting hit and about about having to get back up right about someone stopping you i mean it was a team sport it was you're relying on other people to help protect you you you're not going to win a football game by yourself um you know it was kind of like that about you know lose lose five yards and then have to get back up and try to get it again um you know that was what it was for me growing up was that was my contact sport about you know look you can look over and see what guys are gonna are gonna rock your bell right um and that was kind of what it was for me look i love jiu-jitsu too i mean jiu-jitsu is exactly what you're talking about i mean there's nothing more more nerve-wracking than uh someone being on top of you and you can't breathe right right like and because at that point they have control
of you at that point they're deciding your fate yeah i mean yeah i mean we could you know we could roll jiu jitsu and if they get their arm around your neck i mean they get to decide if they let go you know and it's it's a real vulnerability and test of of you being there right i mean the more experience you have in adversity and tough times and and coming out of it and and trying to figure out and i think that's the cool thing about jiu jitsu is as you roll and then you try to figure out okay so obviously when you when you have to tap that was not where you wanted to be right how'd you get there how did i get there right like what did i do wrong right and isn't there so much to be to be to be said about that like what if we did that in life like check i got here i messed up but the problem is in life now or the way the world is now that you can't you can't go back like you can't say oh well i did the best i could right there i wouldn't do it again and this is how i would fix it because now like the world just doesn't accept it like it's almost like the haha gotcha right like it's a it's a it is just to apologize at this day and age like means you're done like it's almost like apologies are are it just means it's gonna be brought up and held against you forever it's like you just admitted to what they were right about and it's like how does that make sense like how do you get better from not messing up like how do you get better from i mean i mess up every single day and i just apologize and i mean it i mean it when i'm sorry like i don't want to hurt anybody people would say at a certain point in time if you keep apologizing for the same thing you're just getting away with apologizing you're not fixing yourself right but that's the difference right is that's one thing but it's a difference for me to just apologize when i'm sorry
right like i messed hey sorry i didn't you know this is how i i didn't understand how this made you feel or i didn't mean to do that like are you being it's just being yeah i think that's one of the most important things for a person what i was getting at with the jiu jitsu analogy is that the the difficulty is it transfers into your life and it can enhance you but it seems like the difficulty of combat is way more intense and way more insane and obviously way more intense way more insane but way more difficult to overcome and to learn things from it's like it seems like for a lot of the combat veterans that i talk to their their experiences are kind of like burned in their brain in some way where it's not like you're i mean sure i'm sure they're stronger because of the adversity they've been through but also some of it is too much and it just leaves them shooken yeah you know they used to call it shell shock remember i mean that's what they used to call it before it was ptsd but troops were coming back from vietnam they called them [ __ ] shell shocked and i think i mean i think that was me for a long time for sure that that was me for a long time like did you get counseling for that did you like how did you i went to mexico what was in mexico um i went down and i did ibogaine oh um did we talk about that the first time you were on the podcast no i think i did afterwards oh really interesting um but yeah i know i went to how was that it gave me my life back i mean it gave me my life back like uh i went down and um i just got to the end and i talked about in this book you know i was going through my divorce um i gosh i did you talk about not knowing what was next i mean literally you know just gosh i was just i was melting down just melting down from the inside and uh and finally like one of my friends
looked at me and it's like he's like hey i just went and did this um this is the date you're going you need to go do this and it's at that point like you know i grew up in in kentucky and i i mean i grew up with weed is bad right i mean all this right you know what i mean and for me it was just such a it was just such a to think that i was gonna go do psychedelics right it was just like such a like it was like a moral thing for me right i mean it was a moral moral um dilemma dilemma yeah and um but i mean it was all i had left and i knew that for my daughters i needed to do something can you describe the experience yeah i mean i went down and uh where did you go to well i flew into san diego and then we just went across the border somewhere i don't like i was like close to tijuana the south of that like started with an e so um i don't know where it was but went down there and uh took it took time again at like 8 p.m at night on friday and i kicked in like an hour later and it was it was like i was walking through this this um like gloomy city i was kind of walking through a gloomy city like it like overcast does that make sense yeah and i remember like i went into this one room and it was like i mean i could see the street signs and everything like i went in this one room and i walked out on the stage and there was like all these people in this room and it was like they were going by like um you know like those old slide like slide shows like they're just spinning by and i was seeing these people and i was in there and i just felt this like discipline everybody was disappointed in me and um like i see all these people and i just felt like all this disappointment i was like running around like going up to people like why
like what did i do what can i fix like how can i fix this like what did i do wrong like i'm sorry and it was like all these people that that i just people in my life like i could see their faces people in my life that i've tried so hard to be good enough for and you just you had it you ain't gonna be good enough for them right and uh and so i left that room i was in there for a few hours and um i left that room and then i was walking through the town and i would go up and i would look at these like the uh like these fuel gauges i could see these fuel gauges and they were like it had e for empty uh or yeah e for empty and then f would meant like finished and everything was like this far from finished it was like i never finished anything and then um i seen this like beautiful ball light and i went to it and in it was like my daughter's playing and i just felt like so much peace um and then there was like obviously like different moments of i never forget this one moment in it i uh i just like i almost like oh because i mean you could see i mean i could like open my eyes i mean it was really blurry but like i was i was present right and i was gonna just ask the doctor like i was like i just don't want to be here anymore like i can't do this and uh i i knew that he was going to say there's nothing i can do about it so i stayed there and i just remember it breaking my ego i remember focusing on my you i remember like fighting it just like just realizing that that all this was ego that my ego just the best way to describe it was like it didn't make me like you know like when you drink like you kind of feel numb this is like my soul like it was like it was just it just like it was like my soul had gone through a
workout like like a workout on it right like just an ass kicking workout and it just broke my ego you know like it just it just showed me so much about my ego and there was just i just remember like at one point i was like i don't care i don't even care anymore i don't care what people think i don't care like i'm i'm not gonna live by what people think i just i remember just like just all i could just say back and forth was i don't care i don't care this is why you were tripping while i was tripping and so i was on it until from 8 p.m on friday night and i came out of it at like 2 or 3 p.m on saturday wow and uh i came out of it and i was mad the guy that sent me there i was so mad at i was like i didn't need this i was like i didn't need to feel like this i felt terrible um why are you mad at him well because i was like you know you you sent you told me this is going to help me and i didn't need to see all my problems right it kind of like just brought my problems out and made me look at them and realized that that i need to do something to change these and so why would you be mad at him then well i was mad because he sent me there and i thought he was going to help me and i felt like it made me worse right um in that moment you did in that moment and then i did dmt the next day 5meo and it was it that was what brought it all together um the next day we did 5 meo and i was so like i was down i was depressed i was like upset because it just like i just i was like gosh i just didn't need to see all this but i don't understand if you think it's beneficial why were you upset at him that you did why and why did you think you didn't need to see it well what i'm saying is all of it together was beneficial the bible game by itself wasn't the ibogaine well i mean no i think it opened pandora's box for me right like because it made you think about things yeah but isn't it better maybe to think about
them than to suppress them in the back your head um i mean the experience like it just it was like an ass kicking right like it was just like it was like the ultimate ass kicking it was miserable like i was throwing up i'm saying it's good for you i'm saying like but when i put it together with the dmt and i did the dmt the next day it brought it all back together right like you know after i did the dmt i'll never forget like we i took you know i took the hit of it and i laid back and it was like i was gone through this tube it was just like this tube like almost like a water slide right right yeah i've done it and um you feel like you're in the center of the universe or something like you don't exist anymore it was beautiful it was so beautiful like the white that i seen was like there's no white there's no the color here that could ever do like same right um is so beautiful i felt so much love like it was like pure love it was like how i felt like whenever i met my kids you know like whenever i was there when when hatley was born when i met sailor like the love that i have for them it was like that but times a million you could just feel it it was like so good like it just showed that like there is good and for me i put it together and it's like it's inside me good's inside of us feeling good like like those good things are inside of us and it's just our ego that keeps us from feeling and being happy so the ibogaine gave you this understanding of all the conflicts that you've caused and whether it's uh interrelational with other people or even with yourself by not finishing things not following through on things yeah do you think that it was trying to show you that some part of your problems lie in the fact that maybe you don't respect your own efforts like when you when you look at that you haven't finished things do you think like
it was showing you that you don't have a respect for yourself because you you don't respect the the effort that you put into things yeah i think it showed me that like yeah i mean i think it i think i think it showed me that like yes i don't right like i don't i look at i look at everything as well if you do good well that was what you're supposed to do right and if you like the only thing that i've and i still i still struggle with it right like the only thing that i feel is like whenever i mess up you know like like if i just i live in this mindset of well i can always be better so i just you know like i stay focused on that aspect of it of like what did i do wrong and it's a hard thing it's a hard balance um because i always want to be better i always want to be i always want to be better i want to give you my best and you know like i so i think that that was what it kind of showed me was that hey you know like like it's it's okay to you know you can do your best and as long as you do your best that's what matters as long as your intent is good that's what matters like you're gonna mess up like that's normal and i think it was like it gave me like i don't know maybe a little grace on myself of you know because i just have this i have this problem of i i just always want to do more you know i always want to do more for people you know and it's just it's like i don't know like it plays against me a lot you always want to do more for people do you always want to do more for yourself as well do you always want to do more in terms of like the effort that you put towards things like when you say you always want to do more is it just with doing things for people i mean yeah i mean like i i don't
i mean like the more i can help myself the more i can help people you know like i i like if i could do anything in the world like i would take all the pain off of everybody else right like i don't i don't want anybody hurt you know and and i just i think that everything that i do is about trying to help people you know like that's kind of what what i i find fulfilling is seeing people happy well that's a beautiful thing man i mean that's a great way to think about life too if if you enjoy making people happy and you know how to make people happy you know there's things you can do that can enhance people's happiness you know we were talking before this podcast about a guy that you pulled out of a truck that went into a pond and it is as a fireman a crazy experience that you had um where you just tell the story because it's it's really not it's [ __ ] nuts yeah there was a um and obviously i can't get many details of it but there was we had a call um we have a lot of i get to serve with a lot of great people and um i called a truck had like gone underwater inside of a pond rolled up and uh we were initially told it was stuck on the side of the pond and had no clue that it was going to be underwater got there and couldn't see the truck and so i'd gone over the fence and another guy come come with me and um started going to this pond cause i see two people standing on the side of it and i thought they were already out or the guy drove off whatever who knows and so get there and i could see this little like white square out in the middle of the pond and this woman goes um she said he's still in there and i said in the truck and she said yes he's in the truck and um i mean it was her son her son or so
somewhere they were related some i don't they're her son or something at some point they were related she said he's still in there they'd watch this all happen she's they were the ones that called and um so i started taking i was in full bunker gear you know like her turnout gear and so i took took the code took my coat off took my pants off and uh other guys are showing up on scene at the same time um and so i just we jumped and john jumped in the water swam out to the truck and then as soon as i got out there you know truck was probably three and a half four feet deep uh the top of it was and so i um i swam down to try to see if the windows were unlocked or were open i thought the window might be open and it wasn't and so then i think to myself well where's my window punch at well it's in my bunker gear that's on the side of the of the of the pond and i was so mad at myself well at this time my my buddy eric and my buddy jonathan jumped in right behind started swimming out there no questions asked i mean just because they knew it was just to get down it's time to time to do it and um they got out there and then this one when the police officers threw me her baton so got it and then i couldn't bust the window open with it i couldn't get enough leverage underwater and my buddy eric i mean this dude is like he's jacked right so he's just he's just beating this window and beats it beats it open and he beat the back window open i told him beat the back window open first it was a four-door truck because i was afraid the guy was still conscious and i i was afraid that he was going to reach out and grab me and drown me so i was like if i can come in through the back window he can't just you know immediately grab me right but i couldn't get into the back window because i was like the truck was full of stuff like it the whole back seat was full of stuff so then
eric beats the front window out and so he did so then he um i dove down dove in the truck and um the guy was in there and he was he was up like he was floating and you couldn't see because in a pond um but he was up against kind of like the roof of the truck inside and um i tried to i tried to reach in and grab him i reached and grabbed him and i just kind of felt where his up at top and i grabbed his collar of his shirt because i knew i could just get him out of the window which is pretty tight to fit a person through a window right so pull them out and whenever i did um i kind of like sank because like i had him with me and i just knew i couldn't let him go because if i did let him go i'd never find him right in the pond and um yeah i thought i was gonna how deep was the pond probably ten feet deep eight ten feet deep um but it's mud at the bottom so i tried to push off the bottom with my feet and um my buddy he ended up grabbing me got me by my belt i guess i've kind of been up like went over a little bit he grabbed me by my belt and pulled me up we get to the top and um the the guys obviously he drowned and so we swam him back myself eric and and uh and jonathan swamming back to the shore got him up on shore and then you know everybody kicked in and started doing cpr he was breathing on his own by the time the helicopter landed and you know we had we had tiffany there who was just an incredible you know just the ems people were just incredible how do you get the water out of someone's lungs when they do that well you start doing suction right so you'll they um they put an eye gel in um to establish an airway but you know getting cpr going they put airway in and they start doing suction i don't know how much fluid she brought off but you know they brought a ton of fluid off of him just doing continuous suction so what would you do if you didn't have equipment there i mean you just i mean compressions right compressions and trying to you
know bag trying to get as much water as you can off you know they might they might aspirate uh you know trying to keep that aspiration out of the lungs right so um and it's and me you know the next day myself eric and and jonathan we actually had to go to the doctor because we we all have aspiration among you right now um from it from this just happened yeah i have yeah yeah i got i got aspiration to moaning right that's what my cough is from when did this happen how long tuesday wow yeah but but you know look the guy we you know we get updates every day because we all i mean you know we all we all want this guy to make it um and he i mean he's off life support he's talking wow um how long was he in there for i know that we were on scene from the time that we got there until the time we pulled him out i mean it's probably 10 12 minutes but you know what you don't know is you don't know how long it was in there before that the air was in the truck or how long there was you know something you know breathing room in the truck you know right [ __ ] um but it's like like i'm surrounded by giants i'm a man surrounded by giants i'm like when people talk about like oh the world's going to [ __ ] or you know there's there's just bad people i just you just come hang out with me for a day you should see the people i'm surrounded by just like incredible people who would give their shirt off their back who are just awesome dads awesome moms just awesome people you know just really really good people who who do good things and i'm surrounded by them i'm so fortunate to to be surrounded by this people that you know from the fire department fire department i mean just in every day right i mean you know look i mean i get to tim kennedy right i mean just you talk about a guy that loves you know you talk about a guy that just
wants to help people i mean that dude's always trying to make something better yeah he's an amazing person um but yeah people in the fire department people just at my gym right you know people coming to the gym and and coming in there at 5 00 a.m every morning and working out and just trying to be better are those people are real there are people like that they're everywhere yeah they are there's just not that many of them in terms of like comparison to the regular people but you have to be one of them for them to come hang around you yes you have to like good people good people don't hang out with bad people that's true yeah that's true and also one of the ways that a person becomes a good person is being around a person like that and then realizing that like wow the effect that person has on me in terms of like the inspiration they provide me in terms of like the way you can see a person behave and how much admiration you have for them and you like you change your behavior patterns to be more like them people if your friends are all gross like you're probably going to be gross too you know if your friends are all stealing money and just lying and being [ __ ] all the time it's like man like you don't have a lot to shoot for no nobody's ever in my bar nobody's ever it's kind of like in jiu jitsu right like you're you're never going to be you're like if you just roll with the same group like you're never going to be better than like you might you're you can only go so far advanced so far right right it's the same thing in your environment right like if if you you're only going to be as good as the best that's the most you could be is the best person around you yeah i wonder i mean it depends on what you're reading and what you're trying to do i mean people are pretty flexible you could do a lot but it's very important to at least make the best attempt to be around powerful people and if you can do that and and the best way to do that is yeah what you're talking about be around people at the gym be around people that either do jiu jitsu or something else that difficult
uh be around firefighters be around people that are trying to help people all the time uh emts people that are first provide you know first responders that are working to try to help people on a daily basis or people who are good parents or people who are good husbands and people who are good wives right like all of it all of it matters i mean i and that's how i judge like i don't say i judge people but i i evaluate people the people who are around me the people who i invest my time is like if you've got money in stocks do you just say i don't care what it is i don't care how it's doing i don't care what it's going to do right no you don't because it's your money you'll lose there right and i feel the same way as is with my time my time is equity you know you have emotional equity you have time that's equity and i'm going to invest in people that that are making me better that are helping me in some way not helping me but like making me a better person and um i just it's a simple formula for me is like i if you're not somebody that if i die today that i want my daughters to to to be around without need you around me that's a good way to look at it yeah and if you can do that you can eliminate a lot of problems in your life with people that are just it's unfortunate because i do want people to do better in life but there's certain people you just got to cut them loose they they just wherever they are at this moment they're too far away from where you need them to be and if you hang out with them they're just going to keep creating problems then one of the ones that drives me the most nuts is people that create create constant problems and then they get like this sort of um emotional charge out of resolving the problems so they create a problem and then they resolve the problem and then they get it they get addicted to that sort of seesaw thing where they're always like in a squabble with someone and then you know i'm sorry and everybody makes up we're good now yeah we're good now and then you know they'll
find another one to be involved chaos yeah they're just constant chaos right it's people that are just they're not only are they not at peace but they're nowhere even near the road you know you're not on the road to peace you're on the road to occasional reconciliation with people and a lot of people get into those relationships with with you know boyfriends and girlfriends like that they get into these things where they fight they argue with each other and then they make up and they get addicted to the making up part and then you know don't you but don't you think that becomes like normal right like like sometimes like you get in that and it just becomes you know it becomes a normal thing like so this becomes the norm it's like in a relationship you know nobody starts off by beating each other right like it starts off by saying you know um you know like [ __ ] you right and then it well that becomes normal right and then every time the bar is pushed a little bit right further and the next thing you know it's just it's toxic and it's just bad and it's like you know we just lose respect for each other and it happens i mean it can happen so fast if you don't pay attention you can and that that i mean for a guy that's horrible but for a woman it's worse because a woman has to worry physically about her her safety from a guy you know that's when you know you have daughters as do i and that's one of the scariest thoughts is that someone's gonna [ __ ] your daughter up yeah beat them up or do something terrible to them it's like the fact that men are capable of that is just such a horrific of life you know because most people aren't capable of that most people would never do that but the people that would do that they're real they're out there you know and how do you prep them for it that's a good [ __ ] question how do you you know i mean i think one way is by setting an example the way you
treat people that's what they're gonna expect from other people you know the way you treat your wife the way you treat your you know the people that are around you they're gonna expect that because that's what you know if you're hanging out with customers if you're hanging out with shitty people and they see you doing that yes they're gonna hang out with shitty people right yeah and and that's why i go back to my circle right my circle is it's it's literally everything and um you know like with my daughters look i'm i'll be the longest person they'll ever date i'll be the longest man they'll date and how i treat them is what they're going to think is is like they're going to measure everybody to me and so if they start dating shitty guys down the road i should probably look in the mirror and my example that i said to them is and not just not just that i'm you know i'm good to my daughters and that i'm respectful to women but then i i work hard and that i yeah i serve the community and that i i continue to try to better myself and and i accept responsibility for for my actions and all these things like they're watching everything and that is it's going to program them to someday like you know we automatically as as parents we automatically have whatever you want to call it like street cred with our children and that's how they learn to to handle problems and that's how they hand you know relationships and things like that it's just so important that you know my daughters are my accountability factor like i look at it and it's like i try to treat people the way that i would want someone to treat my daughters now when you talk about that ibogaine experience about how it bothered you that you know you had to think about all these times we disappointed people or all the people that were upset at you what about that was
what was so frustrating about that was it that you had already gotten through that and put it aside and now it's like rehashing it and just making you feel like [ __ ] or was it just that you were confronted with reality i mean i didn't like it i think it's just like there's just some people that i mean you're not gonna you're never gonna be good enough for right you know and it and it doesn't it's not necessarily you it i mean sometimes it is i mean well i mean yeah but sometimes it's just them yeah again sometimes it's just them right and uh but i didn't see the people i didn't see the people not the people i [ __ ] over i didn't see them you know i seen like you know i mean i i've seen people like family members that that you're like well you know why why was it like this for me right and uh you know that was you know that that was an aspect of look i just let it go like you know that's kind of what that all the stuff i see with ibogaine was kind of like just let it go just let it go right it wasn't it wasn't i didn't see the things that like i didn't see anything about combat i didn't see you know i didn't see anything like that i just seen the things that i let control me that i couldn't control so was ibogaine just like the way i've heard it described is that it's ruthlessly introspective it's like it makes you see things that maybe you've been avoiding thinking about yeah i mean look we all know if we all sit down and we truly want to see it we all kind of know why we are the way we are everything adds up right like it's just like we don't wanna we don't wanna face it um and ibogaine makes you face it like you're gonna sit there and it's gonna keep you there until you've seen enough of it you know are you hallucinating while you're doing this i mean i mean it is like i'm really
there but i mean i can open my eyes and stand up if i i mean the world's spinning but you know like but when you close your eyes oh yeah it's like you're there so it's like you're rehashing memories or like is that what it is it's it's it's real like i liked it because the people that i seen like obviously i wasn't walking through a city but the people that i seen were real the the the moments that i was watching myself like how i talk to people like there was a piece of that right like was real moments it was like i was sitting in a stadium watching myself from a like a a different point of view does that make sense yeah and um it was real it was real like it wasn't like i was seeing like crazy crazy you know alternate reality he was real real people was real situations it was real things now was it a replica of what you'd experienced or was it not so was it situations that never really occurred well i mean obviously the walking to to onto the stage um was not you know obviously all these people weren't in one room but right but their faces were they were real people in my life they were there they were real people so i mean obviously there was like a balance to it but it was like all of it made sense if that makes sense like every bit of it like i knew what it was telling me so it's like you walked onto a stage and then the audience was all filled with people that you've had conflicts with or just like people that i don't feel like you know people i feel like i've that you let down that you know that make me feel like i let them down when when i don't think i wouldn't in in and when i look at it logically i i didn't you know i mean like um and there was just you know there was a lot of that and so you get out of that
you do dmt yeah the next day you put it all together because of those two experiences yeah what is life like right after that you know before but so before i went down there i mean i was having an anxiety attack a week and what does that mean like what is what what happens during your anxiety attacks you know like i'll wake up throwing up like i'd be in the floor like throwing up crying just just like can't control it and it's but when you say anxiety like what are you thinking you know i i just that how much of a failure i am really that's what it was yeah failure mm-hmm yeah yeah i mean that's probably and look i'm not gonna say those thoughts go away you know like while i'm on that truck while i was on that truck the other day all i was telling myself was just like you know i could just i can remember it vividly of you're a piece of [ __ ] look how this is this is you like you you didn't bring the window punch with you how could you mess up so bad now this guy's gonna die because of you and then i'm watching my friend swim out there and i'm just thinking to myself like oh look at you you're an idiot and now you've brought them in here and now they're gonna drown and you're gonna you're gonna get your friends killed and then you know i mean like it was just like the whole time i'm literally like my brain is just talking [ __ ] to me of like oh yeah you know what like you're you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to get this guy out now because you didn't train hard enough right like it's just like all these things like just just just beating it right um and i don't know why it works that way right but it it works for me when you lie when you were growing up did you have uh parents that were very critical of you um you know i mean like there was accountability everything was black and white right like everything was
accountability right you know i mean look my dad my grandpa i mean i grew up with my mom until i was like 10 and then i went over to my dad and you know my dad my dad's one of my dad my grandfather and my grandmother like they're just they're the greatest people i've ever met and i if i can be half of them i'll be somebody um but it was just like it was more of a there's right and wrong there's you know but was there a thing back then about you not being good enough no nothing no nothing so why do you have that thought in your head now do you think like why why do you uh because i couldn't save my team you know like um so is that when it started yeah yeah i mean you know and then the metal just made it worse and for people who don't know what you're talking about we had a long conversation about this on the the first podcast that we did together and it's a harrowing story i mean it's wild [ __ ] what you went through um and i would just tell people just you know go listen to that yeah so you don't have to say it again yeah but that that's where it comes from you know like you know i i don't know like i when i walked in that valley that day like i truly thought that i was i thought i was good at something right um i mean i put the work in and like i i thought i was good and and you know i i really thought that i don't know i mean obviously it shows my naiveness but i just i never thought that there would be a situation that i couldn't get my teammates out of right and i thought that if anybody was ever gonna get killed it was gonna be me and um yeah just like just just like wanting to wanting to help them and and bring them home alive so bad and then just
getting in there and and they're all like they're all dead and so it was just like i just felt like i let him down right like i i just feel like i let him down you know and so and then you come back home and and um then you get this medal of honor so like it's just it's such a it's such a mental you know mental mental jujitsu with myself of i got a medal for failing you know and and people are like oh you know but you did so much good well it's like that's not what i set out to do when i went there i set out to go get my teammates out and so like you know people i think i feel like a lot of times people want to change the narrative because they don't like the way it feels right and i'll never do that because um because the lesson that i learned from that and the emotions that i get from facing the true results of that day uh push me to the next level to be able to go out and help people today so that that time of your life that was responsible for all of the what with whether you would call it self-doubt or self-judgment like the that the nasty voice in your head that says you're a loser yeah yeah i mean i would say that that's it right but even after the ibogaine and even after the dmt you still have that voice because this was just last week but it doesn't but the difference is it doesn't control me like i recognize it i know what it is when it's happening i know what it is when it's happening and a lot of times i use it to my to my advantage do you know like like i use it to my advantage to to give me the edge to push on yeah and i think it helps me i just think that now i can control it um you know what i mean like so you know what it is but you because you're experiencing it but you know what
it is so you can stop it before it takes over instead of allowing it to just overwhelm you yeah i mean i guy at the end of the day like i know um i mean i look i know i'm not a piece of [ __ ] right like i know i know that i you know i know that i'm a good person like my mind doesn't control it doesn't make like when it when it's doing this it doesn't make me believe it right and i think that you know ibogaine gave me that by you know i guess offloading this like kind of stuff that doesn't matter you know like when you get emotional like you start focusing on all these things and it's like now i can control that to get back to the logical like okay let's look at logic right like you know what i mean and just trying to keep that as a balance but i don't ever want to lose that right i don't even want to lose the that voice because that voice is what what drives me to push hard right like what what you know i don't ever want to lose that right so that voice this the critical voice is the thing you think you need to to push yourself for me it's it's what it's what helps me yeah i mean obviously it doesn't sound very healthy does it but it doesn't i'm like i'm wondering if there's other i mean i kind of have a similar thing going on in my head but um i don't ever let it get to the point where you know i'm saying you're a loser you [ __ ] up you [ __ ] idiot you there's i don't have that kind of internal dialogue but i do recognize that i have to i have to manage my mind i can't allow those kind of uh thought patterns to spiral in my head so i don't let them i don't let them go anywhere yeah i mean i think we all get those you know those feelings for sure right i mean i think we do and i think that like
you know would would i would i need those if i if i wasn't going to continue to put myself in these critical moments probably not right like you know i i it's kind of like whenever i was i was a marine um you know to to do to do what people like tim kennedy to do what people like jocko um you can't beat evil people unless you can be evil you know what i mean like if you can't like if you're not willing to and i'm not saying either one of those are evil so let me say that back but for me in my mindset like for me to be able to to for me to be able to when you fight whether it's in a ring whether it's with a gun um it really comes down to who's who's who's willing to give it all and who's i mean obviously training comes into it but but but you you mean if you don't get in the ring you ain't gonna fight if you if you're not willing to go get evil with somebody and take their life you ain't gonna you know you're not coming home you're not coming home and so it's like what what level are you willing to get at and well the crazy thing to me has always been that then you um ask those people to just rejoin society and uh i don't know how much like again i don't know how much counseling they give you or how much counseling would you know how much do they give you and then while is in the military when you when you're leaving um i mean so i was fortunate because i got sent home from afghanistan i went to a uh um to this rehab center for like eight weeks um it didn't make any sense to me at the time because i think it was too close to the event uh what is the the rehab center like it was uh
cognitive cbt cognitive behavioral therapy i think so basically like where you try to re-reprogram the way you think about things or like okay so i you know i feel like i was a failure and then you you ride it out i mean it was like this therapy that it was tough right and um i so i went to that but that was like i had this amazing and i talked about her in the book captain katie kopp she was a um she was on the combat stress team and so what when when i was in afghanistan when there was a critical incident like this they would fly in these um psychologists uh and they would like they would try to get on top of it pretty quick right to be there to help and and all this she did she did so amazing uh obviously i didn't want to talk to her while i was there um so she ended up sending me home from afghanistan um in december in november i got home december 5th but she like worked out this arrangement to where i could instead of just going back to base i came straight home because the deployment was still going on and i went to the cbt thing but i mean you're not really taught about counseling you're not really like you know you're just not it's and the last thing you want to do is is like feel like you're weak right right like feel like you can't handle it um because it's your job you know it's like it's like just saying like you know nobody i mean i wouldn't say anybody judges you because look we're all we're all suffering and we want people to get help but it's like one of these deals like you know you don't wanna you don't be like oh yeah that bothers me yeah yeah the the problem with uh strong people right they don't want to ask for help and i just don't want being inconvenienced right that's another thing with strong people so
the shift that happened after you do the ibogaine and then you do the dmt like what's before and what's after like what what is the difference you know afterwards i mean i didn't even i didn't have anxiety so no more anxiety attacks that's still the same way yeah how long ago was this two years ago two years ago so two years ago it knocked it completely out of your system yeah wow yeah i mean like i feel i feel great like i i'm more present um yeah i mean like i can be i can be who i want to be you know what i mean like i have like it's it's kind of it's awesome like i get to it's so good it's like so good like um i wake up every day and i mean i'm not gonna say every day is the best day of my life but but every day like there's a moment and that i just look around and i'm just like how awesome is this right like i can literally look at my friends and just you know i mean i'll start tearing up just thinking about like how how awesome it is that i get to be surrounded by such great people i mean i mean i'm sitting here with you right now you know what i mean like how awesome is that you know it's like it's like i don't deserve any of this you know but i get to do this but who does deserve it then if you don't what does that i mean when people think like that i'm always like of course you deserve it well i mean i don't think anybody deserves anything i think we're worthy of things yes but but it's also like that thought like you don't deserve it means it shouldn't be happening to you yeah i mean it's not it's not just simply you don't deserve it it's you don't deserve it so it shouldn't be happening but like what does that mean it's happening well yeah i don't i don't understand that kind of thinking well why why why would i do why do i deserve your time why do i deserve your time well i mean i think it's a i think it's a it's a question to me that's called mutual respect what's also just life you know i think sometimes people complicate
their thought process with unnecessary paths they just go down these like things you're not going to get anything out of that the uh why do i deserve this path there's nothing there for you but but that's a natural path yes so that but and that's what i'm saying is that's a natural path that automatically comes in and instead of well riding that path that we know there's no logic to or good into it's like i get to do this how badass is this that's a great way to look at it and so like yeah that's the control we have we don't have control of what happens to us most of the time right but we do have a control on how we look at it do you talk in this book about your ibogaine and dmt experience you do how do i talk about it and is it um is it one of the main uh factors of this uh idea of the way forward um i just want it's just one of them right we talk about the circle you know um i talk about like you know last time we talked about killing that guy with the rock and um to talk about that's a [ __ ] up thing to say casually [Laughter] you know that story i had about killing that dude with a rock oh yeah that one but i talk about how it like like how much that guy did for me and how much he changed my life which is really cool and um you know the more i think about it like you know how much more he still changes my life today and not in a bad way but in a good way and uh you know we talk about that talk about uh how does it change your life in a good way i think i think it's what gives me empathy you know it gives me it it shows me that i can if i can connect with that guy i can connect with anybody if i can you know we all have more things that we're related on than we than we do that we're not right and it's a choice on which side you you choose to pick right like there's only a few things that that that you can do to me that that we're not
gonna like that that we're not gonna be able to get along about you know like you want to mess with my family you want to mess with people i care about it's a whole different ballgame but but outside that i don't care what you don't care what you believe like are you a good person or you're not right like it's good or bad what's your intent and you know that guy talk like i don't know like i was so arrogant coming into that day and him almost killing me um but then just seeing watching him die at my hands and just not i don't want to say i'm not i didn't like i don't want to say that i didn't know why i was killing him because he was going to kill me but i there was just like the reality of like somebody's like it's not one-sided right like the same way that that people were gonna be hurt if i died there were people that were going to be hurt if he died and and i think with that it's like trying to be able to see it from somebody else's side is a huge huge tool trying to see trying to see somebody else from their view is is a really really critical tool to before we get all wrapped up in how we're going to handle things yeah that's a thing that very few people do is try to look at life through this person especially if you're you have a conflict with a person not like a you know hand-to-hand combat situation fighting for your life but i mean any kind of conflict that people have it's hard sometimes for people to look at other human beings and try to imagine what's going on in their head and how they view you and how they view whatever conflict you're too engaged in
the two of you are engaged in like it's it's a good exercise and it's also it's good it's good for empathy it's good to kind of get a sense of you know how you should communicate with that person think about what it's like to be them try to put yourself in in that position and for a lot of people that's very hard to do yeah yeah because when you do that you have to also check yourself and that you know i feel like for me like i try to go into things of like look i'm gonna i'm gonna lay it all on the table for you um i never want to miss an opportunity for the fact that i'm afraid that i'm gonna get screwed over i'm gonna get hurt um i don't want to miss on getting to know somebody or getting getting having a badass relationship or being able to to meet somebody or them be my friend i don't i'm not ever gonna let the fear of what they might do to me or how it might affect me keep me from doing that because i know that i can recover you know like i i i i don't know like i i just people are great like there's most people are good i believe most people are good especially if you get them in on the right day under the right circumstances and you interact with them the right way but even if you catch them on the wrong day like how much of an influence could you have on them right by being the person that comes up and says hey i um you know how's your day right like like just anything just a little bit of empathy goes a long ways yeah no it definitely does so when you wrote this book so you wrote it with uh this guy robert o'neill who's this gentleman so rob killed bin laden oh and uh you know he what brought us together with the main story and he can tell this um was i talked about killing that guy we speak together
and rob talked about how you know right after he shot bin laden he immediately you know went over to bin laden's kids and he was like i just took out the guy who seems the most evil to us and now i just became the most evil person to them and it's not it ain't simple right it's not simple taking a man's life in front of his family cannot be simple no no i mean yeah so you know that was kind of what brought us together and we're just like how can we help people how can we how can we show our stories you know because because i feel like these books like you talk about into the fire you you know i'll talk about my book i feel like it made us like not human like larger than life i'm i'm no different than you what do you mean by them just like it tells the story in a way that people are like i could never imagine doing that you know like i could never well gosh i i would never be able to do that i could never imagine being there or doing that right and it's like i mean well i mean i couldn't have either before i was there and so i just felt like you know i'm i'm no different than anybody else you know i just i was there you know i i went over i was there um just everybody makes different choices in life and how could we take our experiences and try to help people see if there's a way forward there's hope that that that people are good that you know the take from the hard lessons of that's held us back or that that we've had to be in and try to turn that into something good and so when you set out to write this book how did you get in touch with robert did you guys uh did you both have like the same kind of
vision as to what to do here yeah i mean we yeah i mean we we just we wanted to have principles that are simple and and we wanted to um come together and talk more like not just about war but about everyday life everyday struggles that we have and kind of humanize you know a human um humanize war right like not humanize war but humanize life and humanize us and and and kind of show that look the same concepts that made us successful in combat are the same it is literally the same principles that you just apply in all situations so do you feel like the first book when you talk about it being larger than life that what that you're missing like your own internal struggles and dialogues like what what is it about it that didn't make you seem like a regular person to people i mean i think it only told like the majority of the good side um like it didn't you know it didn't tell you know that the the aspect of you know look i grew up in a small town like you know i mean i i you know i'm adopted like you know i mean like there's all these factors of growing up of like the people who kind of shaped me to do that like how did i get to the point that that you know that i did what i did in that valley in that moment well it's all these people around me you know what i mean and still today like everything i'm successful at is because i'm surrounded by great people who push me and hold me accountable every day and you know this book talks about you know we're not meant to be alone you know we're we're meant to to live be around people and interact with people and you know this book kind of talks about how you know how people are everything and and you know who you select to be around from all the way from who you like to be around from who you all that is what there's always a way forward there's always a way forward and when you can find hope it doesn't matter if you're in
a valley in afghanistan surrounded and you've just lost all your team or you're back here and you're getting divorced or whatever it is as long as there's hope and you've got good people around you you're gonna get through it like everybody has a bad day and so when you decided to do this how do you start a book like this like like what is it what are the first words you write are you writing this with uh a ghostwriter or you are a ghostwriter so do you just spell my name kidding me so but well that's why you you know when you type it gives you that little red squiggly line underneath it lets you know you spelled it wrong it's handy um so how do you start something like this like did you have an outline in your head yeah how to do it so we came up with an idea and we just kind of talked about you know we wanted almost like a self-help book um we wanted people to be able to read it and apply it to their lives take the stories that we have and so we um we uh just got with you know people agents who helped us put that kind of like right out this outline and then we took it around to the publishers right and the biggest thing you know me and rob wanted with these publishers was like we didn't just want a book we wanted a book that was like we didn't want it to be left or right we didn't want to be political we didn't want it to be we want to just be for that anybody could pick up and read and apply it to their life speaking left to right like what percentage of people that are in the military are left-wing i don't it was never a conversation never never so it's your concern is about staying alive keeping your your people alive and whatever the mission whatever task you have to do you know when i went to fight i um i wasn't i wasn't willing to die or fight i wasn't fighting for republicans i
wasn't fighting for democrats i didn't care what color you were i i was fighting for americans and all of that no matter what god you pray to no matter what your sexual preference is none of that like none of that matters to me like i i feel like the america i was fighting for was good was good you know that flag to me represents good people who love their country people who want it good and no i i wasn't i wasn't fighting for republicans or democrats or any of that of course not but what i'm saying is how many people did you guys you never had conversations about politics no anything i never i can't ever remember one i can't remember one conversation of even thinking about that it never came up that's interesting now um you know um afghanistan was a big part of your life experiences yeah and then when the troops pulled out that whole chaotic disaster like what did that feel like to you i mean it sucked right like but it's not like there's nobody who set foot over there that ever thought it was going to go any other way really i didn't you thought like when we pull out it the taliban is just going to take over and it's going to be chaos again i mean what was our goal there right well i mean what did we how did we expect to leave it can anybody tell me that right i mean like i knew we knew i mean i don't know let me say this i'll speak for me not everybody else i knew that i never thought the afghan military would be able to sustain itself and defend defend it right when you heard them say that though what was that like just hearing it because a lot of people felt the same way that you're
expressing yourself right now a lot of people felt that way that there's no way they were going to be able to maintain no chance so i mean how did it how did i feel when they when it quit or when they left well how'd you feel like when they were trying to pretend like they would be able to do it i mean it's all it's all [ __ ] right like but the only people that that win in these wars is raytheon general dynamics i mean i mean they're they're the only ones that win at the end of the day that's so [ __ ] up and it's but people you know people don't people don't want to think about that right because that's too it's like when you start thinking about that level [ __ ] up like it just it's it's not and it's i mean you can't they don't like to think that way and they definitely don't want to think that that's a motive and that those people benefiting in these corporations benefiting is a motive for doing certain things that cost lives i think we've seen i think we've seen that plenty when you see what's going on right now because we are in the middle as uh you know people who may listen to this in the future we're in the middle of the ukraine russia conflict it just started a few days ago and everyone is uh kind of shocked and terrified by this prospect of a hot war going on you know inside the former soviet union with russia invading ukraine and we're watching it play out on television and it's it's a very terrifying time for a lot of people yeah i mean yeah i mean it is terrifying um this giant superpower that's trying to control more of its territory or what it used to be it's territory or soviet union is it though like i mean let's let's again i hate i hate russia so let's let's get that off the table um
but what would we do if china came in and china was teaming up with mexico and they were gonna put and they were operating out of mexico what would we do that's a good point you know what we would do um and again i don't know what to believe um because look first off putin's evil like nobody's arguing that but but um you know ukraine i mean their their government's not known for being honest abes um they're one of the most corrupt governments there are and it's like you know i i just don't it just it doesn't like we're hypocritical and again i see what you're saying like you're not saying that you know russia's good and ukraine's evil you're saying it's messy i'm just saying that if we were putin obviously the way he's handling it but again like we don't even know that how many civilians are being killed right like and i think the the the death count right now is in the 300s and so more than 300 people have died right and so i mean why do they still have wi-fi internet why are their lights still on well that's a good question but i think one of the things that's going on with wi-fi is uh i think elon musk is for sure chipped into satellites i mean it again i don't know what's going on i don't know what to believe you know you you hear these these stories that inspire you to think that oh you know you know these people on this island on that island next thing like that you know they gave their life and there's this and it's like well now they're alive supposedly who knows what's what's
really happening you see that that tank that you know just veered off and ran over that car yeah and it's like then you hear that that was a ukrainian tank you know what i mean it's like you you i think that's not true though i think that was that was a russian tank right i i haven't heard anything but i see what you're saying there's so much misinformation on misinformation yeah the island was a big one that they told russia to go [ __ ] himself and that they killed everybody on the island but it turns out no they actually been captured yeah and so it's like i think they're both [ __ ] up right um and so it's like you know i don't know i don't know what to do with it i just my part is is like there's at the end of the day russia russia is killing innocent like innocent civilians who have nothing to do with this are losing their lives yeah jimmy i'm gonna send you something just so that um you could have this too there is a um there's a very good uh video that's online that explains the conflict and uh you know it's it's not a judgmental video it doesn't it's not casting the blame one way or or another but it's a a youtube video that explains i think we talked about it a little bit yesterday but it explains how this uh conflict got started and uh why russia for like logistic reasons why it wants to control i'll just send it to you buddy but we're gonna put all these sanctions on them right but why are we still buying oil from them yeah that's the thing like everybody's pouring russian vodka down the toilet but but we're still buying over half a million barrels a day from them that is so wild right like i mean if you told that to people they would go what and and when you add that up you know i mean putin's making i mean he's he's so this is the video and it's it's long yeah it's just play a little bit of it at the beginning because it shows you the map of where crimea is
in ukraine and that if they join nato like they're trying to join the eu right now yeah if they joined the conflict series that explains the entire course of the 2008 russian invasion of georgia it's called why russia is invading ukraine you could why russia is invading ukraine it's available on youtube and it's it's very good well we're not supposed to do it but essentially for less than 15. it's okay essentially it shows the geographics of the area it shows you on a map like why it's important to control that area and then they also talk about how ukraine has massive reserves of oil and natural gas and how much value there is in that for for russia and for the rest of the world and how they through this uh you know this sort of natural resource rich country they they could become like a huge economic power and sort of separate from from russia and separate from the rest of um you know that area and become a part of the eu which is what they're trying to do and also become a part of nato and someone could park missiles right there sort of like what happened with the soviet missile crisis that during the cuban missile crisis during kennedy's administration where they tried to park nuclear missiles in cuba which is just right off our shores like i think that's what they're trying to explain this but again this video goes way into depth and they're real clear about how complicated it is it's a very it's a very complicated situation yeah but there's a lot of money involved there's a lot of control of the area there's a lot of uh in terms of like tactical control the ability to like for for a military to to have control in case there's some sort of an invasion or something yeah yeah i mean it's yeah i mean i look all i know is is that that you know there's again there's innocent civilians getting killed and at the end of the day like look even if putin you know they keep making it um
well if he gets in to keep right he gets into the city like you know they then they take over the city well let me tell you something take it from us take it from us that even when you take over that city now you're going to fight 20 years of guerrilla warfare yeah you know what i mean like what again what is what what's the purpose here what's what what are you gonna gain right what are you gonna gain what are you gonna gain well i mean i think what he's looking for is ukraine to give into his demands right i think i think he maybe he thought that when in the beginning but at this point he should probably see that that's not i mean i think we it's not going to happen i mean the difference in like obviously we handled it different but the difference in us going to iraq and afghanistan versus him going here is like he also has the world against him not only ukraine you know the world is is is is against him doing this which you know um yeah i don't i don't know i don't understand it i don't get it and uh i i again i just know that it just sucks because because of political politics again um people are suffering yeah it is it does suck and it is horrible and it's also it speaks to the distrust that people have in the mainstream media today because so many people don't know what you know what is the true story like what what is what am i supposed to believe well how do you trust them right how do you trust them how because even if they let's say even if they only show a part of the story that is real it's lying is if you don't tell the whole story it's the same as lying yes it is the same as lying if you tell a distorted version of the story because that's what the people that are paying for your advertisements want you to tell that's lying it's lying yes and
and then they're in the business of lying sometimes because there's again yeah there's no accountability there's no accountability how do you hold them accountable well they're being held accountable by the people that pay for their ads that's what's different it's not like you know it should be do no harm right just like a doctor like the doctors have an oath they're supposed to be trying to take care of someone and do no harm the same should be what the the media should be their their ethos should be tell the truth always like give the facts tell the truth and then you know in some of these shows now unfortunately it becomes more about editorializing than it does even about the facts of the news it becomes more about the opinions of these people and you know we know they're reading off a [ __ ] teleprompter we know that they have scripts we know that someone talks to them about talking points we know that they have a corporation behind them that's paying for these ads brought to you by pfizer and they have all these you know people that are in their ear and so the version even of their editorializing has all been shaped by influence yeah i mean this is what this is what we're using to try to figure out what's going on in the world during this tragedy they're they're being held like their accountability is to um the people that are paying them and not to the the people who are relying on them and yeah and but i mean again look there's only one color that matters in this country and that's green in this world and that's green yeah yeah it's um it's [ __ ] up and what people are really terrified is if while this is happening what happens if china invades taiwan at the same time well i mean i think that that's going to be i think that that's uh inevitable i think so i do i mean i mean listen for whatever it's worth
right but i mean i i mean of course like why like if you were america's enemies right now now's as good a time as ever it's the best time so why not you're america's enemy now is the best time yeah i mean so much chaos so much conflict our priorities are so far off you know we're we're worried about trying to make our naval fleet green and they're over there rocking you know rocking rockets around and just you know about oh they're teaching me eaters right and it's like i mean i get there's a balance but but again like you can't you can't stay the free world and stay the leader and stay an influencer if you can't protect it what do you think happened in terms of like the this crazy woke [ __ ] that's invaded the military i never thought i would see it in the military i thought that would be the one sector of our society that would be immune to that kind of ridiculous ideology i mean i just think that people um you know people have gotten so they get offended by everything and i don't know like i but why well because coming from a person who's served and been in combat duty and experienced the horrors like real real problems like what is it about that i mean i just woke [ __ ] i mean again i just think that life like we have first world problems right and that's that's it right like uh it's the ultimate first world problem right well it is and that's all of our most of our problems here our ultimate first world problems and you know like but again you have to understand like like my talk about my generation um you know my generation we i mean we had access to internet right like everything was kind
of instant gratification i didn't have to go out and raise a garden and i didn't have to do the things that my grandparents had to do to to be able to live and to be able right everything's convenient for me but but it doesn't mean that like so these people who are are portraying these problems they they are true problems to them and they are that big of a deal with them but but it's kind of like when you're looking at your kids like when my daughter comes to me and she's like you know so and so he said this and it hurt my feelings and she's devastated um it goes back to adversity that is the biggest problem she's ever dealt with and it is that big to her right just because it's not to me because i've dealt with all this other it is that big to her and that's what's happening with everybody else is like we have first world problems here and they haven't had adversity and they haven't had to have that and so these things come up and instead of learning how to deal with them we're trying to cater to them right instead of you know when people get offended by what i say i i always ask was it is it inaccurate um it was it offensive or was it that you just didn't like what i said did you just not agree with me because it just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean i'm wrong well some people get offended too easily and that's they don't want to hear that but some some people get upset at things too easily and it's because they're making a problem that a lot of folks would think is not a very big problem they're turning into a gigantic one in their head because they don't have real problems i mean i couldn't imagine going to my dad and telling him that somebody said something to me it hurt your feelings it hurt my feelings i couldn't imagine well you know that's a old expression you know the the hard times create hard men
hard men create easy times easy times create weak men weak men create hard times and this is the cycle of existence i remember when i was a kid i was reading about the fall of the roman empire and we were just talking about the excess of the roman empire during the during its demise and i remember thinking i wonder if that's ever going to happen here because i remember thinking like every civilization in the past that was a great civilization whether you know whatever it is ancient egypt or whatever ancient civilization that was this dominant massive civilization they all went away they all the ancient greeks and we're on the fast track yeah oh my god we're moving so fast we're i mean we're one of the youngest nations and we're the superpower yes yeah we're yeah one of the youngest nations and uh we're also unique in that we're a nation of immigrants yeah it's a a nation consisted entirely of people who moved here and and you know obviously native americans as well but the the people that moved here are the bulk of the humans that are here and it's so recent i i i talked about in my comedy special i said uh the united states was founded in 1776. people live to be a hundred i go that's three people ago it's three people ago three people ago three people ago they they decided to try to figure out how to create this new [Music] experiment yeah pretty wild pretty wild right you know and and i just think you know look like we we have to keep that in mind and and again but people are just so entitled right like you know they they it's i don't know like we're the i don't want this sound terrible we're the trust fund babies of the world we are the trust blind babies of the world yeah you know what i mean no that's not i don't think that sounds terrible at all i think i don't want to finn trust fund babies yeah i mean
i think they they need a little offending but it's we're spoiled you know we really are i used to say that about california that california was like with the trust fund people when it comes to the weather because there's no weather in california so no one has a real sense of like what nature can do to you and growing up in massachusetts except those wildfires yeah those wildfires are a [ __ ] those are wake-up calls those those make people nicer you know in massachusetts when it would snow everybody would kind of get together you know you'd help people you see somebody pulled over the side of the road people would pull over and try to help them they try to get them out of a ditch if they got stuck they try to help push them or help shovel them that was the thing that people like you realize you could die out here like when it's you know 10 below zero and it's the middle of [ __ ] january and you see someone whose hazard lights are on and there's no one else on the road like you feel obligated to help that person and there's a thing about nature where it makes you confront your own vulnerability your own mortality and california doesn't get that very often you know and i and i have this theory of um i just believe that the more adverse you've gone through the more hard times you've gone through the more power you have to help others the more struggle you've had the more you can help others yes you know like in the more because and the more vulnerability you can you have right because to help somebody you have to be vulnerable you just have to um to connect with somebody you have to be vulnerable and people who have gone through stuff and came out of it they have the power to be vulnerable because they know that they're gonna get through it yeah yeah it's um in order to get people to connect with you they have to understand that you've experienced some
bad situations yourself it's not simply just that you know the right way to go about things you know one of the things that jocko does so well is talk about everything everything your own you know human shortcomings your own doubts your own fears all those things and then how to get through it yeah i mean he like jocko has this way of and it's it's it's awesome of like he defuses you before you even know it right like you could come in and just it's just he has this way of like you could have this whole built up you know like if i'm if i'm about to go nuclear i i call jocko right yeah he'll tell you he like he'll tell you he we talked about on the last podcast and uh i'll call jocko and and he listens he listens to you so you kind of like you're kind of like running around in a circle and uh telling him and i've got you know get this whole plan built up and that's how i see it and then he just like he lets you wear yourself out and then he and then he comes in and he talks logic you know he uh you know i'll never forget i called in this one time about this this i was so pissed off at some some stuff that had happened and i was like dude i'm gonna go over here i'd already had this plan that i'm gonna i'm gonna go like it's on i'm ready to lose everything and uh settle down dakota there it was he he listened and he goes uh okay he goes he goes check check and he said um well is it he said the only time you should fight or the only time you should go at or entertain this stuff with people is is is one way is if it's willing to are you willing to lose everything are you willing to are you willing to go all in because you know you do so you you do this and then they buck up to you well you're gonna lose and look even worse if you don't do something and keep going right like how far do you want to take it right he's like the only time it's it it makes sense to engage in
something like this is if you're willing to just say hey look i'm it's worth me losing everything that i got my freedom whatever it is and he said outside that it ain't worth it and when it gets that point that's your deciding factor that's when it's time to engage yeah and i was like gosh man like he just he but he defuses you right like because he he's not gonna he can't let you wear yourself out and figure it out and then he just kind of helps you guide you right like hits you with some logic some logic yeah well he's a leader you know jocko is one of those rare people that's an actual real bonafide leader you know yeah you could talk to him about pretty much anything and he'll be able to look at it rationally yeah he's such a unique guy such an incredible guy he's uh that dude's done so much for me just you know as a friend and like a guy is just that i owe jocko so much i think a lot of us do you know as a friend and just as an example as a example of you know the way he likes to describe it extreme ownership ownership of everything failures successes you know he's the real deal you know like i hear people hear people talk sometimes like i just want to be like jocko and i'm like you'll never be like giaco but you can strive to be like giacochaco is a he is a superhuman you know yeah good luck i mean you'd have to live his life and you you might not survive that's the reality of a jocko it's like jocko didn't have to make it you know and all the things that he's gone through same with you all things you've gone through you didn't have to make it you know you did and you're very fortunate that you did but you don't make a person like you you don't make a person like choco easily it's not easy yeah i mean it's it's kind of like that iron sharpens iron right mm-hmm yeah absolutely now um now this book is out like it came out today oh today really yeah no [ __ ] yeah well that's probably why we scheduled this huh yeah so when uh when it uh comes out what do you do now
do you have to do like a book tour do you have to go i want to talk to a bunch of people yeah i mean i went on um andy for stella's podcast yesterday oh okay cool um he was badass me and rob went out there i was in st louis and then here today is that where he does this yeah out there yeah yeah yeah he's incredible i'm friends with him online i just should chat with him he's such an incredible guy like went out there to their facility and just like the culture he brings like he he's just you know he he's a guy that lives life on his own terms and he he cares about people and he's real thoughtful and he's very [ __ ] smart and he seems very smart and he has a love of 1970 chevelles like i do he does yeah his facility is crazy his car is insane so awesome chevelle he has think it's [ __ ] beautiful but yeah his uh his message and the way he communicates online is like i like it you know like when you walk into places and you um you can tell a lot about the vision and the owner by the company right especially a place like his big everywhere like everywhere in that place was out at first forum was just like crazy like just everything great energy people were so nice i mean you could just tell that that that it was it was awesome and he's a great guy we did the podcast with him yesterday so funny so smart just and he cares he cares about people and he cares about people and that's what that's what that's how i judge people it's like do you care about people how do you treat people because that's really all that matters um and so like you know this you know we're going out uh i'm on here today and then we've got you know some still some some things tomorrow and this week and then yeah so you just do like a tour do you gonna do any like television shows or any of that stuff no i mean it's kind of over for that stuff it's kind of over like it's the podcast game right yeah um we did some we've been doing podcasts for the last two weeks so um yeah so just going around just trying to
spread the word about it talk about it um yeah and how long have you been doing a podcast now so i do the american party um i mean i've been podcasting for like four years um switched around to different formats like i used to do the interviewing and i just i it's hard to get yes to relying on guests right so i do it with dan holloway we do the american party and it's just about like you just talk we just talk it's about principles right um you know yeah so i mean it's just about principles it's about you know i don't care if you're left or right like look i just care if you're a good person and and that's pretty simple yeah it's a lot more simple than whether you know the the left and right things complicated it's like the reasons why people are left versus the reason why people are right what what what do you define as left versus what do you define as right you know i think uh that's a complicated conversation it's a complicated conversation i don't even know if they're even loyal to that right um and and so it's just you know we we do the american party podcast and we we just we try to break it down to looking at it from what's best for the people what's best for people and you know those are principles those are principles of you know to do good to do good for others to do good for yourself you know it's all this stuff i i'm not smart enough to make things complicated so i just have to keep them it works out for me yeah well i you know there's some people that love make making things more complicated they they they get off on it there's confusion there there's power and confusion yeah there's like a rush in explaining things in a way that baffles most people where you go wait a minute what are you saying exactly and they're using all these fancy words and elaborating and a beautiful you know pontificating in a beautiful way it sounds good sounds good sounds good sounds good but it doesn't sound good if you don't know what the [ __ ]
they just said like some some people are too smart i'll talk to them like hold on slow down what did you just say can you break it down to where i understand talk to me like i'm fine that's how i have to do everything so you do it once a week or twice a week twice a week it's cool yeah so we do wednesdays and fridays um i love it i love it you know just just to try to break down things that are going on and like how it's going to affect us right like does this really matter or not i mean how many times are we focused on things that really don't matter you know a lot and and that's what i talk about you know in this book of you know so i'm a helicopter pilot and so like i you know there's a lot of things going on when you're flying a helicopter and if you try to focus on every single gauge while you're flying like you're never you can't get through all of them um but like you know i'm always looking out the windshield 90 out the windshield i use a nine and one technique and so 90 out the windshield making sure i'm not running into things and then you know uh 10 inside looking at like three three gauges that matter to me right because i know if those gauges are good if something else goes wrong i can auto rotate it down right and it it's the same thing in life like let's just stay focused on what matters quit getting distracted on on the the static stop giving things more legs and you know are you having are you having a bad day are you do you have a bad life or you're having a bad day or are you having a bad moment right stop giving then like obviously we all have negative things and and we all have obstacles in our lives but like don't give it more power than it's than it really is right that it deserves then it deserves yeah yeah there's there's p you know there's a great expression that i've talked about before but it bears it's worth mentioning again there's an expression the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing
that's ever happened to you no matter what it is like if you've had a sheltered life and the worst thing that ever happened to you is someone said something that hurt your feelings that is the worst thing that's ever happened to you and we see that with children right little kids it's like because they haven't had a lot of life experiences and then we see people that have gone through hell and those people you know i don't want my children to go through hell but those people are more resilient they're different they they have more they've they've got more life experiences that to judge it against so a thing like someone being mean to them you know if you grow up in some hard part some eastern bloc country where things are rough like you don't want to hear any of that [ __ ] like that like just an insult that's not enough yeah that's not the worst thing that's ever happened to them but we just have to like we have to stop trying to out vic victimize each other right like like look the words like you said look the worst day of your life the worst day of my life is no more significant than the worst day of your life they're both the worst days of our life and if we stop trying to out victimize each other see who's seen worse or done worse we've been through worse and we're just like hey look like like hey here's what i've been through yeah man we can get through this but there's a culture in this country unfortunately that has arisen uh you know within my lifetime of victim like there's just like a currency to victimhood like the more things are stacked against you the more you get to complain about those things stacked against you the more you get to like wear it it becomes your identity yeah it becomes your identity it's a problem i mean it is a problem right and uh because we reward it right like there's and there's no accountability to to to get through it and and like there's more reward to having that and being able to talk about it and being able to use as your identity than there is to put the work in to get better yeah right like and a
lot of times we just don't want to that's what i'm fortunate about with my friends is my friends i tell a story in here um about tim you know when i was going through my divorce when i first moved to austin on it was on it was a critical piece to me um it was kind of like the only stable consistent place i could go to working out with tim and juan and and uh and eric and and john wolf and and all of them those guys like literally just i knew if i could make it to the gym that i was gonna have an hour or two hours i'd be alright and um and i'll never forget i walked into tim and i was like man i'm we were doing some work out and i'm like i'm i'm just fat right like just just just probably looking for some empathy right and tim looks at me and goes uh yeah and hey check it out um your uh people look at you as a warrior and you need to look like one so fix it and it's like you know i didn't need him to be like oh no man it it's okay you know you you you look all right i needed somebody to sit here and tell me like hey yeah you know what you're you're spot on at least we identified the problem so now it's time to get busy yeah yeah and that can be done but it it doesn't feel good you know yeah that's the point though that's that's what fat shaming is all about but don't you think it's offensive but don't you think i could have sit here and be offended by that oh yeah for sure your feelings could have been hurt you could have went straight to the donut shop and been like [ __ ] him i mean this is one of the things we see today with a lot of people online whether this whole body positivity thing it's like it's such nonsense like yes it's awful if someone's mean to you purposely and hurts your feelings and mocks you for the way you look because you're obese yes that's not nice at all but this whole idea that you
love it and this is who you are and everybody should just accept it and then pretending that it's healthy which is really weird like people will distort the reality of medical science and pretend that there's not like some real significant effect that obesity has on all parts of your body all sorts of things go wrong if you're obese but we send this message to people that body positivity is the way to go that it's okay but it's not okay it's not you mean it's like it sucks if someone could point something out and like hey you have let this lapse you have treated your body in a poor way and because of that you have a significant problem and you got to do something about it like tim said do you fix it that is that's a reality of so many [ __ ] people out there and they don't ever get that speech and they don't ever fix it and instead they try to come up with reasons why it's okay to be obese but it's not okay to be obese it's terrible it's terrible for you it's terrible for the people around you it's because you're gonna you're selfish you're gonna get sick you're gonna get you know it's gonna be a real problem people don't wanna hear it they wanna think that somehow or another it's okay and especially during the pandemic like my god it's like one of the main factors for whether or not you're going to be healthy and whether or not you're going to survive this [ __ ] thing it's a you know one of the main factors was obesity yeah i mean yeah and i just like you know the frustrating part to me was just i got it i got it look do whatever makes you feel safe i'm in whatever i don't care what that is right whatever it is whatever whatever you've done just do it do it i don't care leave me alone um and look if if you i just i just never forget i was in the grocery store and i didn't obviously i didn't have a mask on um i was being selfish me and uh
i walked in i wasn't around anybody but like this woman was in i mean she was she was very obese and her cart was i mean i remember looking in there and it was like just junk food and she's like screaming at me telling me how basically how much of a piece of [ __ ] i am for not having my mask on and i'm endangering everyone was there a mass mandate uh i mean they didn't tell me i mean i could go in the store without it so like they weren't nobody mentioned it to me that worked there right it was only people who were but either either way it was like check i got it okay i'll put my mask on if it you need me put my mask on i wasn't on an airplane um yeah i'll put my mask on right if that makes you feel better i gotcha um but i just don't understand like why do we only look at parts of it like okay i'll put the mask on to protect you but if you want to protect yourself you should you should maybe start eating healthier you should maybe make healthier decisions all the way around but that's hard to do it's very easy to yell at you well again and that's what i felt like is so many so many people were blaming me for their problems yeah you know what i mean yeah and look obviously i got it it was real i got it check i'm not arguing that i'm just saying that like let's now that now that let's say we're i don't know if we're pa i don't know where we're at in the pandemic anymore like i don't know but can i walk around and and when i see somebody who looks very very unhealthy and i know that the science supports that can i walk up to and be like hey you don't need to be eating that no because that only affects them yeah the thing about you with the mask is it you know i don't think masks especially most the mask that people use unless you're wearing an n95 mask which most people aren't like a really snug fit n95 mask i don't think it's really doing much those cloth masks and especially those surgical masks i mean i don't
think it's doing much those clothes that you wear over like that like it's almost like these like what what are they called like bandanas bandanas over their face nonsense well yeah it's nonsense and the studies are showing that it's nonsense it's statistically it doesn't really have that much of an effect again like i had michael osterhome on recently and he's explaining why an n95 mask works and then it has like what did he say it was like electrical static what did he say about why the things actually cling to the mask like it prevents transmission because static charge yeah so it's something about like if you are sick and you have one of those on it actually does significantly reduce the amount of viral load comes out of your mouth but most people aren't wearing those they're wearing these [ __ ] masks and here's the thing man it's like if you want to go to a place and you want to i mean if if there's a masked law and you're not wearing a mask that's one thing but if you want to go to a place and it's optional and you've got your mask on and other people don't and you're you're screaming and yelling at them like you're just you can't especially if you're obese and you've got a cart full of [ __ ] you're concentrating on the wrong thing so where i mean but we're like but again where's the self-responsibility there's none but it's so easy to point a finger at mean old dakota running around with no mask on you piece of [ __ ] [ __ ] wrong with you yeah i mean what what number what number in in the country what as far as the world how unhealthy like we're one of we're one of the richest countries in the world what what level where are we at on the health the health scale that's a good question let's let's guess let's guess let's say 17th or no as far as no let's go this the most as far as unhealthy like the unhealthiest i bet we're number seven or six or seven in terms of the unhealthiest country yep yeah i'd say we're probably top 10 unhealthiest
and as far as healthiest i think we're probably top 20. no no i don't think so really i don't know i don't know yeah you're probably right it's probably top yeah there's like a there's a bunch how many countries are there no that's why how many countries are there a lot [Laughter] 200 i want to say there's close to 200 close to 200 something like that i think it's in the 190s so i would say we're top 100 for healthiness no no way i want to think about people like me so i get i get cocky i go wow we're [ __ ] healthy take a lot of vitamins you work out every day no we don't like a small percentage of us do yeah all right i'll say as far as uh obesity we're top ten we're the top ten the most obese country and uh as far as uh bad health i would say we're top 10 as far as bad health is good health probably top 30 or something what do you got jamie i'm trying to just looking this up is a tough problem real fast um because what what what's unhealthy so like i typed in unhealthy and it's like pollution okay let's say this oh right right right environmental factors let's say this what percentage of people um like in the world wow i found it so i found that i'll just go i found uh why is the usa only the 35th healthiest country in the world all right so at top 35 out of 169 okay um what about the opposite like when instead of the top 35 in terms of healthy what about in terms of sick like uh for bad health outcomes here i'm like where do where do we find something here's the top 10 unhealthiest countries in the world um and that's what that's this is as far as healthiest where do we what about unhealthiest yeah is america one of the that's the first question jamie 20. is america one of the first uh unhealthiest countries okay obesity and diabetes for decades
the united states has had the highest obesity rate among high income countries wow high prevalence rate for obesity are seen in u.s children and in every age group they're at so the highest obesity rate amongst high income countries we're number one go to click on top we'll go top 20. i did i already we weren't in there we weren't no so on this one though but yeah i mean that's what i was going through oh what is the most unhealthy country but that's that's again i was going through that already and once so it's the number five it started making i'd you can't get to it is it an environmental issue it's a uh so it's like pollution in terms of unhealthiness yeah there's a lot going into that question isn't that crazy though yeah yeah we're the most obese but that's a weird thing because we have all this access to food and a lot of it is really unhealthy and it's easy to get like the easiest food to get is like you could just pull into a burger place get a milkshake [ __ ] sugary soda but we also have access to the most healthy yeah food in the world but it's not as easy and it's it's uh it's not as cheap so it's like it's it is it's also it's like you know people don't have a lot of time unfortunately like the the other thing about us is the time requirements that our job takes like your job takes a lot of [ __ ] time isn't that is that the narrative that we've like is that what we just i mean you're i mean i think you're you're a busy person yeah i'm a busy person but not compared to a person that has a job that they hate that's that's the thing it's like you're you're busy but you're busy doing something that robs you of your soul and that's a lot of people a lot of people are out there busy but they're they're busy doing something that drains them yeah when i leave here i'm like that was a good conversation dakota's cool that was fun that's how i'm going to feel yeah i'm going to feel drained yeah i'm going to feel like that was a
good conversation you know i want to do stand up tonight same thing but have you always i mean have you have you always had that no no when i was younger i didn't have that and when you were younger did you still work out yeah so my point is is that if you if you whether you want to do something or whether you don't you'll find an excuse that's true but also the reality is like my struggle years were not that long like um like while i was struggling and while i was working out i was young i had tons of energy i was driven and i had a plan or i wanted to get somewhere i wanted i wanted to get i wanted to have success and fortunately it came true and i did have success and i did do all that stuff but the people that haven't and they're obese now they have a bunch of [ __ ] going on first of all they have low energy levels it's very difficult to get something done when you have low energy levels it's so hard because whatever motivation i need i mean i'm kind of on autopilot now like when i get up in the morning like i know i'm going to work out it's not like whether or not i can't well maybe i'll blow it off today i [ __ ] never say that i get in there i always work out so it's not like whether or not it's going to get done it's going to get done it's just it's a part of it's brushing my teeth it's taking a [ __ ] it's normal but everything go out everything's habitual it is but when you but my point is like i have momentum and i have health right so i'm fit i eat right i take a lot of vitamins i'm doing all the right things in that regard so i have the energy to go out there and work out for obese people it's so [ __ ] hard because your body's drained but you're so so you're telling me do you think that majority these people were talking about do you how much time do you think they spend on their phones they spend a lot of time in the phones but that's easy to do well the thing you know what i'm saying is like it's not as easy for me this is just my my own personal realization my understanding of like the human body when you're really
fat it's very hard to get going it's very hard they don't their bodies are [ __ ] up like they don't have the energy to do it and that's just the reality of what it means to be an obese person so what they have to do is force themselves you know they don't have like this feeling like i can't wait to get to the gym that feeling is not there their feeling is okay i know that this is a process it's a long brutal process but i must begin it and it must be a part of every day and that's the only way i want to get out of this holding up doug i mean i don't i don't wake up and have that and i work out six days a week i don't i mean and i built a gym on my property like three 100 yards from my house um and i still have to fight myself yeah to get up to go work out at it right i can all you know i just it's a choice it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's goggins talks about it so his priority is who the [ __ ] has more discipline than goggins he goes sometimes i see my shoes i stare at those [ __ ] for half an hour i could see him i could see him in his house angry looking at his sneakers and then i put him on and i said stay hard yeah stay high [ __ ] dude he sends me some of the most hilarious text messages my favorite video of him is you know obviously he's running right yeah i mean dude i don't know i don't know if he ever sleeps but he um he's running and he's like you know i'm i'm out here and somebody just pulled up next to me it's a hundred hundred percent humidity and it's whatever degrees and he's like and he looked at me he said why are you here or why are you running or something yeah and i looked at him and i said cause you're [ __ ] not well he needs haters he likes haters he does he enjoys him he said because you're [ __ ] not he likes lazy people and he likes haters because they motivate him yeah he like he's in a constant war like in his mind of against weakness against his own weakness against other people's weakness you know and that what i was talking
about i mean it's kind of the same thing right like you know like where you're just i just talk to myself different yeah i guess yeah i mean i'm not that's what i respond to i respect the [ __ ] out of that dude and i love him to death but i don't think his mindset's healthy i mean he's never in peace maybe he's never at peace maybe i mean it's probably not healthy if he was going to be like a youth pastor but for him to for him to achieve the goals he got he wants i mean not just achieve the goals he wants but here's what's maybe as important with with him is that uh goggins inspires so many people to action there's so many people that watch his videos and they go that is an exceptional human being so exceptional but it's because he's not like this he's not trying to be well groomed he's not trying to like worry about offending people like david goggins is so clear that he doesn't give a [ __ ] what you think about him and whether you're watching his video or not he's gonna still be getting after it yeah it's real too that that that his attitude about those things is 100 percent real i've never met him oh really no i love dogs but he's like i just i watch his videos and i just like i wish i could be that i would i would love to introduce you to him you'd love him he's a great guy he's a lot of fun too you would think that he's like stay hard all the time like constantly but no he laughs a lot he's he's a fun guy you know he's he's all you know he's always he's always working out right so he's always like drained of all the [ __ ] that a lot of people carry around with them a lot of people carry around some unnecessary [ __ ] that they could get rid of with a hard workout yeah a hard workout like you know the things if you ever notice like the things that bother you like that are on your mind before you start working out versus when you're done totally different you got a totally different perspective totally different life it's like life is okay like a [ __ ] brutal workout after it's over you're like yeah i'm gonna be all right yeah it's there you know honestly that
wasn't that big of a deal yeah big of a deal it's like that's a form of therapy it's a it's and it's also a form of therapy that requires you to engage and to work and i think that is just as much an important aspect of it as anything is that you're forcing yourself to do something that's very difficult and through that you get this alleviation of anxiety and stress and all the good stuff and it's great for your body but also it's great for your mind because your mind did the work you made your mind your mind is what tells your body what the [ __ ] to do you know my friend john joseph he's uh he's the lead singer the crow mags and he's done a bunch of [ __ ] ton of triathlons and a bunch of iron mans and one of the things that i love about what he loves about triathlons and iron man he says because your mind has to tell your body who the [ __ ] the boss is you know your mind because your body's like oh this is [ __ ] let's quit your mind's like [ __ ] you keep going your mind can control the body that's what i love yeah i love i love those workouts where it's just like where it's like anybody could do it and you know you could take off like i try to do everything but like these workouts i'm talking about for time right because you know it's like you can take off because you can get through anything you can pace yourself you know all these things and for me i just like i like to get to that dark place and i like to just get in there and i just like to you know for me i don't i'm not gonna go talk like i'm not very good at talking to to people about my problems um i feel like i'm inconveniencing them and then when i verbalize them they're not that big so um you know um so for me like this is kind of like my time to my counseling session with myself i don't have to say anything and at the end of it i come out and i feel better you know but i i'm physically beat i'm mentally uh just i love just getting to that dark place where it's just like oh yeah this this is where i like it and i come out of it and i'm like done i'm ready ready to get after it again like
i'm relieved you know but i gotta sometimes i just gotta i have to get in there i just have to push myself harder and just just be like no like you're i'm gonna quit on my terms yeah i'm gonna stop on my terms not when my body gets tired i'm gonna stop when i say i'm tired yeah well i think with a lot of people what's going on is society's created these tensions and these problems that our body doesn't totally understand and i think our body thinks of conflicts as being danger to our body physically dangerous conflicts that's what i think our body thinks of conflicts of anything that you've got that's going on that's giving you stress our body thinks we're gonna have to go to war like you're gonna have to fight off a neighboring tribe you're gonna have to fight off a predator there's gonna be with the way we evolved as a as an intelligent being the way we got to today is we had to fight off a lot of [ __ ] and so your body is programmed to fight off a lot of [ __ ] now all of a sudden you get to this place in 2022 where you're not really fighting anything off but you have those same feelings and i think until you wreck your body and just tax it out it can't think rationally i think all those people that have like major anxiety and major problems and don't have a rigorous workout schedule i think they do themselves a disservice because i don't think you're able to think as clearly do you think that like um i mean how many people do you think are out there that have never been punched in the mouth a lot and go back every generation right like my dad's generation and then they all got punched and don't you think because like yeah and don't you think like so i believe the biggest issue in in in just america just talk america um is there's no accountability right but there is no accountability without conflict and everybody's so scared of conflict because like now it's to the point where i can talk [ __ ] to you over text yes you can't punch me in the mouth over texture exactly and so like there's no accountability and we've dodged all
this i mean i mean i remember like when i was in high school i mean we would fight and then we're friends the next day and uh i mean you know that's how it was and now it's like it's just crazy [ __ ] right but but it's like no there's no accountability this also we're the same thing we're the same animal that we were your dad's generation your grandpa's generation we're the same creature but now we have different rules and those rules aren't necessarily compatible with the way our bodies set up no i mean we're built we're built to fight yeah well it's been a it's not whether or not we're built to fight we're accustomed to it in our lives it's it's a part of what got us here to 2022. this is how the human race is here it's not like we just laid down whatever conflict came because we'd all be dead but in how many times so what happens you know like you take these generations as we you know we're scared of conflict life is conflict there's a lot of conflict in life there's a lot of like and there's a lot of lessons that you learn through conflict well exactly and it's like how what's going to happen when you know it got god forbid that that this country and two two more two more generations uh somebody comes here that wants conflict the real fear is that that happens right or the real fear is the conflict comes now and we're not prepared for it and by the time we adjust it's too late yep i mean that's that's the issue is what would it take to snap america back into a position where we value physical resiliency we value discipline we value and it's a common thing it's common that people exercise and are fit i mean imagine what you do and imagine what i do and what jocko does and tim kennedy does imagine if the whole country adopted a way of life where you eat healthy you train almost every day
and you think about your problems you think about accountability you think about your personality you think about inner personal conflicts you've been in with friends or with co co-workers or what have you and you try to do better constantly we'd be a infinitely better country that's not infinitely better it's not good for it's not good for business though why isn't it good for business you buy things i buy things yeah but i mean like it's what's business when you're not depressed and when you're not you know when you don't have anxiety you know when you feel better you have more energy and i mean listen it just it's it's uh i i just mean like pharmaceutical business yeah i mean i just think i just think that everything goes back to you know i mean everything goes back convenience and things like that i mean obviously it's nice but you know the the the more people rely on other like these other things to do in their daily life there's more money to be made there right yeah and i just think it's it's just like i don't know i mean you can't tell people hey look like yeah i mean it's just so tough right now and it's like so tough because like i'm raising my daughters in this it's like what is it going to look like for them well it's definitely different than it was for us but i'm wondering you know if we're going to figure this out the way we figured out every other generation and learn from the mistakes of the past generations and and get better at it i'm you know i'm still optimistic although i i do see a lot of [ __ ] really troubling [ __ ] with the way people are handling stuff in in in society today i mean yeah i mean look america we're going to be fine like allegedly no we'll be fine we'll be fine i'll put everything on it we'll be fine um yeah i mean for sure you're not worried about china or russia or any of this crazy stuff you don't think like putin is capable of like launching a nuke no i
mean where is he gonna launch it to us i think it's possible that there could come a time where putin is experiencing so much pushback that he decides to go nuclear so it's kind of like here right like it's you know when i mean and millie even admitted this who did um general milly yeah joint chief staff what did he say when he told china that he would call them before he knew like well that was when he was talking about trump yeah so again again you know if yeah if if putin himself was the only person that had to to launch that nuke maybe but there's still the like if putin launches a nuke on us what's gonna happen right behind it everybody in in russia is about to suffer you know what i mean yeah and i think that like that aspect of that aspect is that's why north korea ain't rocked a nuke right like like these these nukes i just don't think and maybe i'm just being optimistic um i just don't think that like i think people will do things whenever they're sure that it's not gonna affect them but i think that like the humanization factor of oh i'm i'm gonna push this i'm gonna support and i'm gonna have to push this nuke button or whatever whatever it is key or whatever and uh but i also know that as soon as i do that like i'm gonna get the first hit but my family's gonna suffer and everybody here is gonna suffer i just again like they're worried about him dropping nukes inside of ukraine well what he said and this is where it gets disturbing what he said is that if anybody supports ukraine and you know the idea if nato moves weapons into ukraine and and put points him in russia they i believe his quote was something to the nature of they will face horrors the likes of which the world is never seen i mean so is he committing suicide yeah so i mean i mean look how old is he how old is he i mean but that's that's something how old is he um how old is
putin 70 60 70 70 eight prices maybe six probably 70 70 69 69. okay so who knows what his health is like who knows how much time he's got left i mean you when you got a guy who's a dictator but then you've got people under him who have to push the button how does that work over there do they have a similar situation i mean some somebody has to do it right i mean he's not doing it he i mean he ain't like a rifle but if he orders the first i mean he hasn't he given them orders to get close to get ready hasn't he put some sort of a nuclear what did he what was his his order that he walked up the the level of readiness or whatever i don't know right so what does that mean i mean i don't maybe maybe they point them i don't know maybe they get them aimed in the right direction well listen the human race has nuked countries we have well not us obviously it's worth all the time we're the only ones well that's enough it's just like listen it's not that long ago i mean it seems like a long time ago 1947 but if you look at in terms of like the overall time that humans have been on this planet that's pretty recent but if you look at roman history or greek history like a 50-year 60-year 70-year gap in between something is not much but you also had like we also had the support like nobody like this had affected everybody right and like nobody like we didn't worry about somebody rocking a nuke back at us we didn't know if they had it right so now we know we know everybody who's got the nukes yeah and so and everybody knows like who's got them who's got what i mean it's all obvious but you know that during the 60s there was uh some generals that were legitimately thinking about launching nukes against russia against china against cuba there was real talk about this like that's what the whole doctor strange love movie is about we actually talked about it yesterday it really was based on real people that had these ideas and thought they were actually
going to go wind up doing that i mean i just look anybody can do anything like people can do anything i just don't think that i just i mean i maybe maybe i just don't see like you know when they're talking about nukes inside of uh inside of ukraine right now i mean so but i mean you talk about putin literally losing it like he i mean he's done like if he drops a nuke 100 he's done is he though because what if he says i'm gonna keep doing this unless you guys back the [ __ ] off but i did it once so what do you think what happens then but honestly what happens then because then we go to war then everybody dies right if we just launch missiles at him and he launches missiles of the united states mutually assured destruction right you think if one one nuclear bomb goes off somewhere that that would un automatically mean a nuclear war or do you think people would try to still negotiate depends on where he sends it right so i mean like do do you think for one second and i don't know i think there's legit questions right do you feel like he's gonna drop it in ukraine while all of his people are there and that his own people aren't gonna turn on him and be like what the [ __ ] i don't know i mean i feel like if he pulls out of ukraine pulls the troops out of ukraine and then nukes it i mean that's it sounds crazy i don't think look obviously i'm not a [ __ ] i mean obviously if he's pulling military analyst i'm not a person really either but what i'm saying is who the [ __ ] thought that we were going to have a hot war with russia invades ukraine with tanks and and jets and they're shooting missiles new apartment buildings that's [ __ ] crazy and nobody thought that was going to happen just a few months ago and now it's real yeah i mean again i'm with you i mean we we went we've gone into iraq i mean you know i mean i just don't see i just don't see um i don't see him going nuclear and i just don't see i mean i don't see it but it's possible i mean anything's possible but that's the thing it's like it's not just possible we're in a war they are rather he's in a war right now there's a real
war like ukraine and russia are in a real war that scares the [ __ ] out of me man i mean china is the one that scares me that scares me too i mean china scares me i mean i think root i think russia you know i think russia's kind of showed their hands right like russia's kind of been like to my generation the guy in the bar that you know you walk into you've never seen him fight but everybody's like oh don't mess with that guy right like don't you just don't ever even mess with him right everybody's been like well why oh you know he's so badass and i think putin's more screwed because he's kind of showed that that i mean if he can't take on ukraine he better not try to come to anybody else unless unless he's going nuclear nuclear well again yeah that's the that's the thing that's [ __ ] is like would even support him going nuclear do they have to look if he's going nuclear it's a suicide mission right yeah do you think it's like you got to always be afraid of someone who is a dictator who has ultimate power who's also a psychopath and that seems to be all those boxes get checked in this scenario yeah you know i mean i'm with you i don't know man but like i want i want the world to be a better place than it was before and it just there's a real possibility that it won't be you know the thing that every civilization is worried about like when when you talk about um the possibility of uh the advancement of the human race the one big dilemma is if we don't blow ourselves up that comes up all the time whenever people talk about the future like what is the world going to be like in a million years if we don't blow ourselves up that's what they always say like will we get to a point where there is peace and harmony we no longer have more well there's no no more conflict no impossible yeah why just nature of human beings yeah i mean it's just the nature of human beings right i mean there's just no chance there's no chance of us getting to a
place to where there's no war yeah there's too much hey there again i said it earlier there's too much money to be made on it right um and look and and think about yeah there's too much money to be made on it um and you don't think that putin likes making money i think you think that's not a factor you know how much money he has well i mean they say he has [ __ ] untold billions of dollars um but i just i just don't think that like i i just don't see i don't know i mean again again the last person on this on the face the planet that needs to be talking military strategy is is probably me i'm i'm right next to you but it's both laughs in line it's fun to talk about it it is um but i just don't see i just unless he's suicidal i just i don't see uh i would hate to have this conversation or go back and listen this conversation a year from now after a nuclear bomb has gone off and we're like wow we didn't even see it coming i'm just saying that the the real fear that people have about civilizations not reaching their full potential is natural disasters or self-destruction do you ever see and again i don't know i'm just asking a question do you ever see somebody yeah i mean somebody who's willing because like you know you know suicidal sometimes i don't know suicidal people they usually just hurt themselves sometimes right i mean obviously there's a difference i don't think it's just suicidal things like everyone's afraid of that that was uh the the whole plot of that stephen king book the [ __ ] was that book um they made it into a movie with christopher walken the dead zone there was a guy who could see the future and he he there was a guy who was running for president and he could see that this guy was running for president was going to launch the nukes and that
launching those nukes was going to cement their name into history which i think for some people is a powerful motivating factor believe it or not i mean especially has changed up all the time so i wouldn't bet on that yeah but especially as you're getting older you know if you like what what is it what keeps a guy going when you're 69 you've been running russia for decades and you have untold billions of dollars like what keeps a guy going i mean i hope i mean i hope that like i mean again my my friends my family still being able to gosh enjoy my kids right like enjoy my enjoy my grandkids yeah but you're not a dictator you know i think we have to think in terms of like dictators like homicidal dictators there's a lot of dictators that they've done horrific genocidal things they're ruthless ruthless people i mean but you know if that's the case i mean we're gonna have to be worrying about iran yeah i mean um north korea yeah like at the point that that dude gets sick like i mean i could see it on like if putin got diagnosed with a terminal illness yes but that's the thing like what if he has one did you um see the podcast that i did with yon yonri park mm-hmm she was a woman who escaped she escaped over there bro yeah you listen to her account of what north korea was like and growing up there it's horrific it's terrifying and the fact this guy has complete control of his population through just complete fear they're they're so tiny over there she was talking to me about how little everybody is and she's so frail she's like when you you like shake her hand like her everything is so small her bones are so small you realize like she didn't get enough food that's that's why everybody's so small over there they're [ __ ] starving and uh yeah i mean but yeah how do you fix it how do you fix it i mean he keeps that population terrified terrified and under control and that's the thing is it's like that's happening right now in 2022 and
one of the things about us is we're so like if someone lives in a wonderful really safe neighborhood and you just think this is the world the world is like my neighborhood because that's all i experience and that's your point of reference your point of reference is this great neighborhood that you live in where everything's safe and you never really have to worry about anything at the same time there's places in the world like um what was that there was there was shane smith from vice was telling us about this one city that has the most murders i think it was in pakistan it's one city where there's more like murders and more hits like you know like people pay people like it's a shockingly low amount of money to commit murder and they just have them constantly all the time and uh it's just the reality of living there i think karachi was that where it was but we have all these things in america what's the murder capital of the world jamie yeah we do but it's small places right like south side chicago when i typed in the city in the world with the most murders top three were all in mexico whoa that's now right yeah i mean so yeah but you know we like yeah i mean it's it's i don't know i just sometimes i do get frustrated i mean i love this country i mean i do believe we're the greatest country on the face of the planet i mean i believe that with everything i have but sometimes we we i mean we we we do we do think we're better or like we we look at others and and we're kind of doing the same [ __ ] sometimes you know what i mean like like you know i mean just we you know we i don't know it's a good for me good good for good for thee but not for me kind of mentality sometimes and i i just we're pulling up a chart the other day of the amount of drone strikes that have gone on
while the ukraine thing is happening that the united states is participating in it's pretty [ __ ] you know [ __ ] it's pretty [ __ ] like [ __ ] there's a lot of drone strikes going on right now all over the world someone that united states participates in because you're thoughtful on this so i want to know or you're you're always thoughtful but do you think because i keep hearing this do you think that this issue that's going on in ukraine do you think it would have happened with donald trump i don't know why it's happening so i can't answer that i don't know what trump would have done differently like it would just be pure speculation the people that want to think that trump was a better leader want to think that oh the ukraines wouldn't or the the rather the russians wouldn't [ __ ] with trump he's he's you know he's he's the only guy that russia hasn't done any invasions while uh during his four years in office but that could just be luck but don't you think it's like don't you think it's kind of weird and again like i want to make this clear i don't care either way just like on either one but don't you think it's kind of weird that like they tried to pin russia on trump and biden on ukraine before any of this broke out yeah i mean you know what i mean yeah well the russia trump thing was crazy because um they got into his servers they hacked into they hired people to hack into their campaign while he was president they got they hacked into the computers they planted evidence that tried to implicate him in the shady dealings with russia like it wasn't just that who then they wanted the clinton campaign it wasn't just that they were spying on them it was that they were yeah like let's google that and so don't google what what has been proven about um who was it that uh uh it came up with the information and it just
came out and like two weeks later you got this going on yeah very quickly and don't you think it's kind of crazy like i mean because there is people weren't upset about it that's what's the most [ __ ] up like the democrats weren't freaking out they weren't saying wait a minute this is outside of the law this is a horrific violation of our our laws and our our boundaries of our ethics what we think should be done and not done by someone who's a leader you want to find people who are actually committing crimes not pin crimes on people well but but again like you know you just don't think it's just so weird and i don't know if there's any correlation to it but i just so weird that like they were trying to plant stuff on trump with russia right and we know for a fact that hunter biden was taking [ __ ] tons of money from ukraine well it's from a company in ukraine right well of course but but that's the question is like does that company represent the government or is that company just i mean is it just like chevrolet just a corrupt i mean not the chevy's corrupt but yeah you know just a company yeah i mean i don't know i don't know what was going on there i don't know what but there seems to be for sure some sort of shady dealings going on when he's getting all that money and it doesn't make any sense maybe maybe maybe it's just a coincidence could be what was the um are you looking okay um and then it's like you know you you see that and it's just i think they [ __ ] all talk to foreign they do whatever the [ __ ] they can if they think it's going to help their career it's going to help their campaign it's going to help them get over on their rivals there's a lot of that going on and i think that's one of the reason why trump ran the first place is because he was on the other side of that like he had to pay the clintons to come to his wedding you know it's that it's that kind of [ __ ] yeah you know is it his wedding or is it someone else's wedding is what his daughter's wedding no here's the thing what you need to know about the john
durham filing that trump world is fuming over and what is this business ah dude i'm trying to ask if this is even what you were talking about into the right yeah it's a durham filing so even looking into this now depending on what lick i click it's what lick you click link i click it's it's filled with bias so like okay yeah well this is definitely a biased uh website yeah it's just it's so they're biased towards uh things being in inflamed you know like so which where should i go that's a good question because i've typed in good yeah what is um what's a good way to look at this none of them some of them have to be accurate do they what we know about the durham probe hillary clinton's responsibility for the durham club who's going to have written that unbiased article yeah to find i don't know what do you got anything that's going both ways that's i was starting to read through that so i can if you give me a minute or two yeah i just yeah i mean it's just but i mean it's just it's just i don't know it's just so like when you start looking it's dirty like you that is watergate right wasn't that watergate it wasn't they were spying that was the whole reason why dick nixon got out of office because he was [ __ ] spying yeah yeah that's you're not supposed to do that but now it's like i don't know but it's just like we talked about we talked we talked about in those relationships like you know you you you do something and then that oh my gosh i can't believe this happened like it's like the worst thing ever and then it just happens over and over and you kind of just get numb to it right yeah it's like with with politics now it's like they're i don't know what you could do to to get for it to be like oh my gosh right like you know i mean can you imagine if what like bill clinton if he got a [ __ ] today in the white house would be nothing he's not getting impeached no chance like they would probably raise him up as a hero yeah they would come up with some reason why you know he you know was just a hyper sexual individual
who was tempted by his genetics and oh it's not his fault you know i got one one thing that might already be a mistake that's in this so there was a filing that happened last week that's gotten this back in the news right when the initial spying happened on trump wasn't it because the obamas like obama was in office and they were spying on the candidates i think that was the original um that was the original part according to this the new york times says that they changed that that like i don't know who they like the trump team i guess they were initially saying it was the obamas and now they're saying it was the clinton's team that was doing the spying right but maybe they thought it was the obama they knew it was the democrats perhaps and then i mean we thought it was the the people that were in power and it turns out it's not the people in power it was clinton because she was running against trump i mean that doesn't necessarily that doesn't make sense though because she how that means that she's in control the fbi whoever is doing that well she's just she's a secretary she wasn't just a candidate she was she wasn't i mean i don't think the secretary of state you have to give that up though to become the candidate yeah but the connections that she had with those people is if she is the favorite to win the president and the presidency and she was the connections that she had with those people the only question you got to ask is in this whole thing is do you do you think obama knew yeah i think he knows everything well of course but he also [ __ ] hated the idea of trump being president she he thought trump was you know a scoundrel i mean you remember that [ __ ] white house press conference dinner it was kind of hilarious where he says to trump i'm one thing you'll never be yeah president of the united states like oh my god you got it in that guy's craw that's probably why he became the president oh for sure probably stuck in his [ __ ] head he's like i'll show you [ __ ] yeah you know the thing that scares me is that whether you like trump or or hate him he
polarizes the country like he's not a republican like ron desantis i think there's a lot of people don't like ron desantis but he does not he's not polarizing the way trump is i mean he's still polarizing but he's not you don't people don't [ __ ] hate him in the same way that they hate trump trump i don't think yeah i mean trump was exhausting yeah you know and it's constantly in arguments and fights with people and going after them and rosie o'donnell and girls he banged and all the crazy crazy things to concentrate on you know it's like god man i mean the stuff he said oh my god it was hilarious look if he was if he wasn't the president and he wasn't a real threat that's the thing that really [ __ ] him because before that the guy was loved yeah he was crazy and a lot of people hated him but for the most part he was loved yeah i mean i'll say this like under under trump i uh i i felt like i feel like the country was safe like you know i wish i knew that was true we i mean i don't know if it's true or not but i got for me like i felt like i mean i felt like that you know what i'll say this i think just the unknown factor about him made america safer because enemies did not want to even mess with him well he's definitely wild the wild to kim jong-un he called him a little rocket man he said uh we have a nuclear button too and our nucleus buttons are way better here's the other side i guess what does it say pavlich this is the hill katy pavlich uh says it was always spying so what does this mean here it kind of just goes into the story about what like starts at the beginning i think like april 10th 2019 this is what was said it goes into okay here's here's the quote here it says for the same reason we're worried about foreign influence in elections we want to make sure that during the elections i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal it's a big deal bar testified spying did occur yes i think spying did
occur the question is whether it was predicated adequately predicated i'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated but i need to explore that i think it's my obligation congress is usually very concerned about intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies staying in their proper lane and i want to make sure that that happened we have a lot of rules about that well we know that there was a lot of like a lot of the intelligence agencies did not [ __ ] like trump and he like went to war with those people which is insane it's just [ __ ] we're [ __ ] it's a lot of mess we're [ __ ] it's a lot of mess it's a lot of mess you know and then where are we going to be in 2024 excuse me 2024 because he's running again so here we are 2022 then i think he's going to run again 100 yeah i think so don't you think so he just announced it at cpac i guess just i mean not a nothing surprise does any do what would surprise you like tomorrow you wake up what could surprise you at this point that's a good question yeah that's a good question everything's so aliens would that really surprise you i mean yes no that would be a surprise you don't think i'm like wow but i mean i wouldn't even know whether i believe it because like if you really wanted to [ __ ] with people look i think that a lot of what we're looking at when we're looking at ufos and i've been thinking about this a lot lately i think a lot of it is these classified government projects i think they have they probably have classified propulsion systems that maybe don't even use people they're probably just drones but i think they have capabilities that we don't understand yet in terms of like the general public and they've been working on these sort of different types of propulsion magnetic propulsion systems these have been theoretical for a long time and then this thing that bob lazar supposedly worked on way back in the late 80s at area s4 the way he described it is exactly the way these things are moving the way you know that you see these crafts move like what the one that was observed by commander
david fravor the one that was observed by a a lot of these other guys that are these air force folks that are catching these objects moving at these insane rates of speed underwater yeah they're going from ground to water from sky to water rather yeah they don't know what the [ __ ] is going on but if they if they're working on these things it kind of makes sense because they're always happening like this one here's one the [ __ ] one that was in san diego why would it be in san diego why wouldn't it be that's where all the [ __ ] military bases are there's so much military in san diego if you were going to work on some top secret classified [ __ ] you'd have to be near bases right wouldn't you you'd want to do it there that's where they would do it yeah i mean i i just yeah i don't know i mean i don't know what if what if what what what if what if we're all like what if we're all getting played like like what if like what if like what if the aliens are doing all this to us like i don't think i don't think that's happening i think we're too stupid what i think it's pretty clear that we're doing it to ourselves through corruption i mean and what we've done in the united states is we have allowed money to get into politics we've allowed money to get into it yes yes yes yes a lot of it i mean that was what eisenhower warned about when he was leaving office i mean that speech when he warns about the dangers of the military-industrial complex that is a terrifying speech because that was a guy who knew you know he knew exactly what was going on behind the scenes and he chose to take the time when he's leaving office to to warn about a machine that wants to go to war that wants to find reasons to go to war to profit and that we know that that's real and that's all that i mean that's why we stayed in afghanistan and iraq so long i'm sure i'm sure it had a factor right yeah and then there's people that think we should have stayed there indefinitely you don't think for a second like yeah for why like why like you like if the taliban had thought that
we were going to come occupy them for 20 years they would have gave over osama bin laden on um september 12th you think so yeah they didn't want us there you know i mean like they could have kept going on about business as usual and and you know i i just no i mean we were there and you know even though this administration completely [ __ ] this whole pull out up um every other administration had the same opportunity to pull us out um but they didn't right and i think they were warned that this is how it was going to go down right yeah and so it's like i'm glad we're out i'm glad we're out i mean it would have been nice if we didn't give him all those weapons though right well why do you think we left him there because then we got to build more oh come on come on [ __ ] you kidding me i didn't i honestly didn't even think of that like of course of course guess what all all these all these weapon systems all this military gear well now we're just we'll have to have to build the next generation because they've got it now right oh that's like a modern version and then uh schmedley butler you know that uh you know that uh piece that that guy wrote war's a racket did you ever read that but schmidtly butler i think he was he he was a metal ball recipient yeah and it was in the 1930s i believe this was after world war one i think it was 33 he wrote this it was called war as a racket and this is a guy that had served uh overseas and thought what he was doing like like you could pull it up jamie because it's kind of interesting he was saying that what he thought he was doing was just protecting the world for bankers and different be war is a racket 1935 smedley butler he got two he got two medal of honors yeah that dude he's a badass let's give this speech about let's see if you can find a it's not a long thing to read
but it uh it's essentially i'm sure it would be in that wikipedia at the top yeah it should be if you just go down to it should be available to read right oh yeah well essentially what he said though was that he realized that oh here here goes perfect war is a racket it always has been it's possibly the oldest easily the most profitable surely the most vicious it is the only one international in scope it is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and losses in lives a racket is best described i believe as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people only a small inside group knows what it's about it's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many out of war a few people make huge fortunes well he said i helped make mexico especially tampico safe for american oil interest in 1914 i helped make haiti and cuba a decent place for the national city bank boys to collect revenues in i helped in the raping of half a dozen central american republics for the benefit of wall street the record of racketeering is long i helped purify nicaragua for the international banking house of brown brothers in 1909-1912 where have i heard where have i heard that name before i bought light to the dominican republic for american sugar business interest rather in 1916. in china i helped see to it that standard oil went its way unmolested i mean this is he was writing about this in the 1930s almost 100 years ago we've seen a lot of rackets lately yeah yeah that's why that that i remember reading that i think the first time i read it was in the 90s i was like wow like this is crazy this guy wrote about this in the 1930s like you you would and this won't be fixed until our leaders can't be like the leaders of this
country the service servants cannot they don't go up there and become richer when they come home and all of them do all of them do like you should not be able to have either blind trust is is the lenient part of it when you have stocks and you're you're in those positions but i don't think you should be able to have stocks you shouldn't like you should have to go up there and and purely you're here to serve well you get a lot less people wanting that [ __ ] job well i mean but you also might be able to get more relevant people to what the everyday citizen lives i think the real problem is once it's already established the way it is now where there is a lot of financial influence where they do contribute to the campaigns where they do have special interest groups where they do have these people that help them get into office and they're beholden to them once they get in there and then you have people like nancy pelosi that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars and they make 200 grand a year and you're like what but she made she makes that money based off the information she [ __ ] knows which is crazy which is crazy but it's like it's just like like obamacare was a perfect example everybody else was forced to get it except them like it's crazy it's crazy that you know that that they can they can have information so the [ __ ] that they can do they're not held accountable if they know insider like go look at the i did a podcast on the american party or me and dan did a podcast on american party podcast about um trading up like trading within within you know the house and all that oh you see the list of all the people that trade is like wow and and then what you look at is is you look at like oh they invested in raytheon or whatever and then they they knew that three days later they were going to vote on a contract that was going to go to them and it jumps their profits up it raises the stock price up it's crazy it's crazy that it's legal it's crazy it's legal because if you were a person
on wall street and you did something like that you go to jail you're going to jail i know it's nuts it's crazy loophole but it's like you were talking about before that we're just accustomed to it we get numb to it like what are you going to do and that's that's what they rely on you know rely on it it's crazy that that that it's okay and until again until but at what point do you hold them accountable right like that's the hard part what's gonna what is it gonna take for it to change and how is it gonna change and what you know what's gonna be the method well you start by you start by you start by first off being a good individual and doing the right thing and then you do that in your home and you start raising good decent moral children and then you you expand that that expands the community and then it just expands that's the only way to fix it you don't fix it you can't fix it by going up there and a coop or whatever you have to fix everybody yeah you have to start with yourself you know that's andy and the way forward on that the way forward the book it's out today right now robert o'neill dakota meyer dakota you're a bad [ __ ] thanks man appreciate it good seeing you good to see you too all right bye everybody [Music] [Applause] you