Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvMNaDDfrN0
The Joe Rogan Experience now Daryl I want to talk to you about your personal experience on Minds with this uh with what you what you do what you're known for have you had interactions with people on Minds that have been favorable that have you've kind of pushed people into a I've had yeah I've had a few and I've had you know my share of detractors some people think you know what I'm doing is totally wrong and don't get me or whatever but yeah I've had it I've had interactions with some people when when you say like people have said it's totally wrong like what what kind of criticisms do they have for that uh it depends upon where they're coming from um some people think it's not my job to teach white people how to treat us US mean black people uh others think it's ridiculous to sit down with a white supremacist why you know why why would you waste your time uh you know those people can't change would you point to your success ratio because it's pretty amazing oh yeah I point to that you know but a lot of people you know they don't see that because they don't they would not tolerate the time to sit down right and have somebody tell them some nonsense that Jews or the Childs of the devil or you know some crazy yeah things like that uh I will sit and listen to that and I will put up with it uh because in order for me to uh speak my mind I have to listen to somebody else's yes right so they're not willing to to put in that time I am yeah and so when how do you have the time to do this this is what I do you know in between my music gigs yeah but I mean like that's what kind of commitment are you talking about like how much time do you spend doing this a lot I mean it's my life now how many like email dialogue oh God I get I get emails all the time I've got emails from people I don't even know I even get emails from people who've seen me on podcasts or on TV shows these are white supremacist Clans or whatever and say you know you made some sense you know would you like my robe I've even gotten robes yeah in the mail from people I don't even know yes yeah I think there's a lot of sad people that just need a group of people to belong to and they'll decide that what these people are saying makes sense because at least they'll be a part of it let me explain something to you
as you already know one's perception is one's reality okay you cannot change anybody's reality if you try to change the reality you're going to get pushed back because they only know what they know whether it's real or not it's their reality so what you want to do is you want to offer them a better alternative perception and if they resonate with your perception then they will change their own reality because their perception becomes their reality it's just a quick example let's say you got a seven or eight year old brother right and he goes to a magic show with his buddies and he comes back and tells you Joe you know this magician he asked for a female volunteer and 50 women raised their hand he picked up this one come up on stage he told her to climb into this long box and stick her feet out that hole and put her head out this hole and then he closed the lid told her to wiggle her feet and she kicked her legs and they took a chainsaw I went and cut that box in half he cut that woman in half and you're like ah it didn't really happen like that yes it did I was there you weren't even there I saw it with my own eyes you are challenging his reality he knows what he saw and that magician cut that woman in half and then to make it even more obvious to you he tells you that the magician after you cut the Box in half took the half with the leg sticking out and moved it over here stays right and the half with the head over here at a stage left and then he went over there and talked to the head of the woman and she talked back to him and then he brought the two halves back together opened the box and now popped a woman full form no blood he cut her in half and he put it back together and you're saying uh it was just an illusion no it wasn't I saw it with my own eyes I was there you weren't even there so again you're attacking his reality he's going to resist he's going to fight you all right so what you do is you offer him a better perception you say Hey listen I hear what you're saying but could it be possible that just maybe out of those 50 women that raised their hands and he picked one maybe she works for him maybe he planted her in the audience she knows the trick she travels to every show around the country with him and when she gets in the Box there's
a pair of mannequin legs laying on the floor of the box that are wearing the same stockings and same shoes that she has on she picks him up shows them out the hole when he says move your feet she'll shakes those things and then she brings her own legs up under her chest so her whole body is on that half of the box so the saw doesn't even touch her and obviously when he separates the two halves the feet are over there and now she can't move them so he has to distract your attention by going over here so you're not looking at those feet and he's talking to the head and she's talking back of course when he brings them back together she pulls the dummy legs leaves them on the floor of the Box she climbs out and then your brother says hmm you know I guess that would be the only way that would work you've offered him a better perception and that perception then becomes his reality so don't attack somebody's reality regardless of what it is even if you know it to be false give them a better perception and allow them to resonate with it because it's always better when somebody comes comes to the conclusion I've been wrong maybe this is something I need to think about yeah this will work it's a perfect example of not silencing people's ideas but giving them better ideas and this is what the answer to censorship has been exactly and uh you know so Daryl always talks about how much he listens when he starts a dialogue and doesn't even try to you know push ideas at the people that he's engaging with different extremists or whatnot would you agree with that statement absolutely and let me just give you an example of that okay so I'm interviewing a clan leader white supremacist right and I ask you know how can you hate me you don't even know me you know all you see is this come in my room five minutes ago and and you're you've already determined you know whatever you determine well Mr Davis you know black people are prone to crime and that is evidenced by the fact that there are more blacks in prison than white people now I'm just sitting here listening to this guy he's calling me a criminal and um but he's right he's a hundred percent right the data and the uh statistics show that there are more blacks in prison than white people so that feeds what he already thinks he
knows the data right but he does not go to find out why does that data show that uh he doesn't realize there may be an imbalance in our judicial system that send black people to prison for longer periods of time than white people who've committed the same crime all right so I just listened to him right because when he walks in that room and he sees me I'm the enemy his wall goes up his ears are like this you know he's ready to defend whatever his stance is so I'm just listening and then he goes and say you know uh black people are inherently lazy uh they always have their hand out for a freebie uh they're always trying to scam the government welfare programs and all that kind of stuff so now he's caught he's called me a criminal and now he's calling me lazy and I'm just sitting here listening I'm not pushing back and then he says uh and black people are born with smaller brains and the larger the brain the more capacity for intelligence the smaller the brain the lower the IQ so now I'm being called stupid now it's what he says that this is evidenced by the fact that every year the data shows that black high school students consistently score lower on the SATs than our white kids do again he's 100 correct that does show that right but he doesn't realize why all right uh where do most black kids in this country go to school in the inner city where do most white kids go to school in the suburbs it is a fact Suburban schools are better funded they have better facilities better teachers Etc I will guarantee you white kids who go to school in the inner city can score just as low as those black kids if not some lower black kids who go to school in the suburbs can score just as high as the white kids if not higher it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of this of the student's skin or the size of the student's brain but has everything to do with the educational system in which that child is enrolled but of course he won't go to research that because the data already supports what he already believes that I'm inferior so now he's called me all these things um I've already done my research on him I know this guy sitting across from me just barely made it out of high school I have a college degree so do I throw that in his face no but because I sat there
and listened to him that wall is coming down because you cannot impart information to somebody when the wall is up it's like hitting a brick wall you want that wall to come down and then the ears open up so now he's exhausted all his vitriol and now he's wondering like how can this black person isn't pushing up against me like most of them do and he's curious as to what I think about what he just said so now the wall is down and he feels compelled to reciprocate because I sat there and listened to him insult me so now it's my turn I could go on the offense and say no you are the one who's a criminal you're the one hanging black men from trees and dragging them behind pickup trucks and bombing their churches and I would be 100 correct because the clan has over a hundred year history of doing that but if I did that that wall would go right back up so I don't want that to happen I want to keep the wall down and let him hear what I'm saying so I say so rather than go on the offense I'll go on the defense and I say listen I hear what you're saying however I don't have a criminal record and I'm as black as anybody you've ever seen so I don't have a criminal record um I've never been on welfare as far as my brain size goes I've never measured the size of my brain but I'm sure it's the same size as anybody else's and as far as my SAT scores go they got me into college now I already know that he doesn't have a college degree I do does it make me a better person than him no but it gives me a better experience right so I let him know this he goes home and he thinks just like we all do at the end of the day we reflect on what we did during the day he thinks man I just had a three-hour conversation with a black guy you know when we didn't come to blows and what that Daryl guy said it makes sense oh but he's black but what he said was true but he's black so they're having a cognitive dissonance yeah right and they struggle with that for a while and then they had that dilemma I got to make my mind what am I going to do so the The Dilemma is do I disregard whatever color he is and believe the truth because I know it to be true and change my ideological direction or do I consider the color of his skin and continue living a lie in
most cases people will follow the truth but then there will be those who don't want to give it the power or the notoriety or whatever and they will follow the LIE well the way you're doing it is brilliant because you're you're doing it so patiently and contrary to the way most people handle arguments most people handle arguments by trying to shut down the other person's argument and all over them instead of trying to what you're saying offer an alternative perspective which is really probably the only way to get people to think about things in a different light and Joe that comes from the fact that I've done a lot of travel okay I've been exposed to people from all over the world and we all got along we all got along we told a story on the podcast the first time you hear about not even understanding racism until you were a child because you grew up overseas right exactly and we got so I saw that so I saw something that they have not seen right and that's why I want to share that with them vicariously to let them know no it's you know the whole every white person uh in the world is not like every white person in this country every black person in the world is not like every black person in this country you know uh there are white people over in France like in the 1940s and 50s a lot of black Americans moved to France to live some even gave up their U.S citizenship because the French people were treating them as they didn't see color you know and those French people were a lot more white than the white people here in this country who might be mixing something else so you know people need to see in fact my favorite quote of all time is by Mark Twain or otherwise known as Samuel Clemens it's called the travel quote and Mark Twain said quote unquote travel is fatal to Prejudice bigotry and narrow-mindedness and many of our people need it thoroughly on these accounts broad wholesome charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime that guy was so good wasn't he he had so many great quotes exactly isolation and so Sam Harris actually did a study that we talk about in the in the paper about he did a Neuro Imaging study of people being exposed to political beliefs different
from their own and actually looked at people's brains when they were going through this experience and they actually talked about this thing called the backfire effect which is sort of what you're talking about when the Wall's up and so they sort of detected that interestingly um and I forget the exact name of the study but it's it's in the footnotes so I think the patience is it that it's long term if you're not changing someone's mind like in five minutes of you know chattering on in comment sections or you know yelling at someone at the dinner table like that you barely know like Daryl knows how to create long-term relationships and not be like thirsty for them to change their mind like it's just by like look we're here we're hanging out whether it's a network or you know offline or online network doesn't really matter and so I think the backfire effect that that Sam found and that we're sort of talking about with walls going up is very real and that's why it's just it has to be long term you know but Daryl I'm just thinking while I'm listening here like these conversations that you've had with these white supremacists and neo-nazis how amazing would it be if that was a podcast no what I'm saying if you sat down with those people from the beginning from first meeting them and see that conversation play out that would be very related I've got some of that do you know where where I've sat down with some of these people while they were still in and now I'm sitting down with them now that they're out some of them even come on my lecturers with me and stand on stage with me and speak out against their former you have videos of these conversations yeah some of them yeah God are they online uh some of them I think are but if not I can send you some I think those videos would be a great tool for someone that's maybe trapped but like at least partially open-minded where they have this like view of things like maybe I'm incorrect about this maybe I need to reevaluate yeah you know like that at but as a podcast that would be brilliant