this is jocko podcast number 255 with echo charles and me jaco willing good evening echo good evening and joining us again is dave burke good evening dave good evening so we go on with guidelines for the leader and commander and i think at this point um i’m not even sure that i’m just doing this purely out of my own joy of having searched for this book for more than a decade finally have found a copy and now i’m making everyone else enjoy it with me we covered this book on 251 252 253 254 but there’s a reason there’s a reason to dig through the past to our roots to my roots the roots from this book from a man that served in world war one world war ii korea general bruce clark bruce clark who then overlapped that service in korea with colonel david hackworth who served in korea and then vietnam and who wrote the book about face these are the lessons that i learned that i tried to pass on and the dna is so clear it’s so clear to read this book and see that dna to find the roots of knowledge and in knowing it we learn more and that’s the goal the goal is to learn and improve and get better so guidelines for the leader and commander by general bruce clark here we go back to the book this next section and i’ll be honest with you the last section i liked it you know there’s some lessons that you know some takeaways for sure this one i started getting this one i think someone had a good time with so and i was a little worried at first because the last section we were talking about was talking about training the individual soldier which to me is like okay you know this is what we’re doing we’re talking about the individual soldier i thought that might have been a little bit of a peak a little bit of a peak where i started you know like this is it but then i got to this section chapter 10 which is called training the unit and i started saying okay which makes sense right which makes sense because certainly there’s going to be parallels when you talk about training individual soldiers but when you start talking about training teams and training units this is where things really start to come to light from a leadership perspective so importance of unit training the army’s investment in the soldier pays off only when the unit is combat ready proper training develops combat-ready units by welding skills skilled individuals into teams and combining teams into effective platoons companies and combined arms forces it is my purpose in this chapter to highlight the application of principles and techniques that will contribute to improving a unit’s combat readiness in less time at less cost thus enabling the army to realize full measure from its investment in the soldier and his unit so there you go this is about training that team getting them to work together theme of unit combat readiness it has often been said that battles are fought by squads and platoons and won by teamwork of small units supported by fire combat power is inflicted on the enemy by fire and movement there you go cover move welcome it’s been three it’s been three paragraphs we’re talking about cover move this is why i start getting fired up the purpose of movement is to get the fire in the most advantageous position to destroy the enemy that’s a good little thing to think about that’s why we cover and move we cover and move to close with and destroy the enemy to get in an advantageous position to destroy the enemy that’s why we cover and move one must remember however that gasoline ammunition and other vital supplies are needed to sustain tactical operations accordingly emphasis on small unit training should habitually stress teamwork to the point that tactical execution is accomplished with the same precision as dismounted drill that delivery of effective fire is as automatic as gun drill and that supply to the tactical unit is as responsive in battle as it is in garrison these battlefield reflections vividly point out the basic theme of small unit combat readiness no small unit training should be undertaken in a vacuum why is he pointing this out he’s pointing this out because in the military it’s very easy to silo yourself it’s very easy to say i want my platoon to be good so i’m going to go train my platoon or i want my company to be good so i’m going to train my company or i want my battalion to be good so i’m just going to train my battalion over here in a vacuum and if you’re doing that you’re wrong in any organization if you’re a salesperson and you’re not training alongside the operations people to make sure that you know how to communicate to them what you want and they know how to human communicate to you what they can deliver what about the it groups do they understand how to handle the threshold of emails that you’re going to be getting when you offer this new product there’s all these things that need to you need to work together sometimes is it because of like internal competition as well like um wait that’s why we wouldn’t train together yeah maybe or or maybe but i think it’s i think it’s just like the straight up silos you know what i’m saying just like the straight up like hey this is my platoon i’m going to take care of my platoon this is my division i’m going to take care of my device this is my department i’m going to take care of my department so like you’re not thinking about necessarily the other guys or you’re just like leave me alone i’m i don’t think it i think it could be either a real like negative attitude but it could also be just a positive attitude that’s like hey i’m going to change my platoon right right that’s what you’re focused on yeah i’m going to train my tutor i’m a platoon commander i’m going to train my platoon we’re going to be ready yeah yeah here’s the problem you can be ready but if you can’t call for fire correctly it doesn’t matter if you’ve never coordinated with a qrf before it doesn’t matter when that qrf is needed you don’t know what you’re doing and it happens in business too hey you know we we’re we’re like i said we’re the sales team we don’t care i’m not gonna i don’t need to train the the the customer satisfaction group i don’t need to train with them that’s not my deal right i don’t care what happens when you know once i sell the product i don’t care what happens oh really you should care what happens because if the client calls customer satisfaction and looks for a solution to a problem that they’ve got as they’re implementing the thing that you just sold them and the solution isn’t there guess what you’re not getting good reviews and you’re not going to sell any more product to that company is the name customer satisfaction department is that it yeah yeah is it called that yeah or sometimes they call it client implementation there’s many many organizations that are set up in such a way that there’s someone that sells the product and then there’s someone that helps them implement the product and that’s customer satisfaction could be customer satisfaction client satisfaction what are some other names for dave do you can you think of any customer service tech support yeah stuff like that tech support that’s a good one tech support you might think of like that’s a broad-based like hey i’ve had this computer yeah for two years and now it’s not working we’re i’m talking about companies where you buy a new system of software for your organization like a solar panel uh at home you buy a solar panel for your roof well let’s say let’s say you did that maybe you buy solar panels for your roof right and then great you’re the salesman you sell them to me guess what you’re done when you’re done selling me my solar panels you’re on trying to sell the next one pair so when i call because the installation i’m having a hard time with i call customer satisfaction it’s dave dave picks up the phone hey i just ordered this thing and now he says well how many you know and i say look we’re having trouble installing this it doesn’t fit on my roof right and you say okay well how many panels did you get and what size are they and all of a sudden he realizes that he needs to give you feedback that listen if the roof is this angle it fits a different way and so now you can sell the product better and that will keep people more satisfied you can also do a follow-up call with me and say hey hey sir i’m really sorry when i measured your roof i thought it was this angle and so i i told you this thing here’s what we’re gonna do we’re actually come out and pick up three of the panels that you’re not going to need anymore and i’m going to you know i’m going to give you a 10 rebate and we’re also sending an installer out there to give you a hand and boom right now i’m taken care of we’re all happy now guess what i’m doing when somebody asks me oh you got solar panels what company can i say oh echoes solar panels is it a good company yeah you know it was a little rough but they got everything taken care of you should definitely call them you see where i’m going with this yeah fully and that’s weird you just took me down the rabbit hole of solar installation that was good maybe not the best example but you you did good with it i’m over here to run with it yeah yeah we’re here to make it happen what do you got but yeah because you don’t really think about that when you’re at work you know where you you kind of want to be the best worker and company sure you know but the customer like experience is kind of the whole deal you know you know how like man when you leave your review you’re like great product bad customer service and that can be like well that sucks because i need some customer service kind of thing so it’s kind of a downer you know yeah cause we’re not thinking everything’s gonna work perfect every single time right well not necessarily you see them saying but i’m saying like you know you have these elements of a product or service that are all to the customer it’s like it’s all the same thing i’m not gonna go to this person just for one thing i’m gonna go i mean as far as one quality of their their product they’re gonna they’ll get turned off by other departments so if you work there for sure just focus on yours bro that affects you that’s what general clark is saying you have to interact with other people inside your organization and if you’re not doing that you’re wrong you’re wrong fast forward a little bit training philosophy the basic the basic philosophy of successful training is that of obtaining superior results with average personnel god i love that well the reason we’re training is to take average people and make them exceptional superior results a unit to be truly outstanding should be excellent in all undertakings and activities commanders must know and understand that capab the capabilities and limitations of personnel and set high and exacting standards of capabilities of the high ability of a groups of a unit’s personnel this tends to give the low ability group a hopeless feeling because of having to compete against a standard which they cannot attain a unit satisfactory in all things is better than one outstanding in sum excellent in others and unsatisfactory in a few that’s a that’s a good thing to think about you know it’s better to be good at a bunch good at everything than outstanding at this one thing okay at some other things and unsat in some some final things next section fast forward a little bit emphasize fundamentals the basic difference between well-trained unit and one that is not well trained is found in the attention paid to the fundamentals of marksmanship chemical biological and radiological warfare communications maintenance administration and all other arts and skills that contribute to making the unit combat ready in the shortest possible time a well-trained soldier is the only foundation upon which effective combat ready units can be built when the soldier fails to demonstrate proficiency and individual skills the army’s investment is wasted and the combat readiness of the unit is diminished each commander should approach his problems of combat readiness with a sense of wartime urgency there is no magic formula no sweatless solution to achieving a high state of combat readiness in a unit application of the fundamentals enumerated below however will help so that by the way sweatless solution you’ve heard that before right yeah that’s that’s that’s hack well hack took that actual phrase and i was i had tried to find it in about face and of course i about faces 836 pages and i was like oh i know it’s in here somewhere after i’ve i’ve done it on the podcast i’ve talked about the sweatless solution there is no sweatless solution we’ve covered that on the podcast you may have wondered where he got i always thought he made it up right of course we thought he made it up have you ever heard me say it maybe you thought i made it up i didn’t make it up neither did hack there you go i believe the source is general clark sweatless solution that’s like that was that stuck with me for a long time still is with me really because what and part of it is yes because i had to admit to myself bro that’s me a lot of time i’m looking for that sweat let’s face it let’s face it man if you can go and get like you know the kind where okay the other day echo charles going deep standby get some so i’m sitting on the couch right in big shocker there’s a there’s a so the remote control i have the kind where you know like the remote control for the cable and then for the volume they’re two different casuals right so i got the one for the cable but i was like the volume one is the volume one is somewhere else so i’m like you know the kind you’re looking around it has to be close to you right because it’s not like it’s you know in the next room or something like that it’s not it doesn’t have it’s not going to go far it’s but it’s around here somewhere right this is what we train for so you know you kind of look around your little vicinity or whatever i’m not getting up though i’m already sitting down that might cause me to sweat a little bit but whatever so i’m looking around and i turn around and we have this ledge like behind the couch there you know that ledge there and i look and it’s behind me but it’s the kind it’s in this weird spot where i can’t like i gotta stand up just if i would have stood up when i first saw it but i would have had the remote control enjoying some television at this point but i’m like trying to contort my body like all weird it was weird it was almost like i was putting more effort into my sweatless solution then actual energy would have been expended if i went for the sweat solution the real one you know put in that just stand up for a second bro but i’m saying okay okay so the point is the point no no no the point the point is bro i’m talking about hackword i’m talking about general clark he served in world war one world war ii korea hackworth was a nominal decorated soldier you couldn’t get your remote i could i could what i’m saying is sometimes we us the people sometimes we put so much effort into looking for a sweatless solution i’m saying like as a philosophy you know and how general clark is saying subsequently hackworth subsequently choco well they’re saying stop looking for the sweatless solution stop like straight up brad just do the work stand up get the remote control [Music] that’s the case maybe or whatever oh this may be that you see what i’m saying this may be the apex of the echo charles uh examples i’m just saying there’s a lot of those you know kind of like when you’re vacuuming and you see the little thing it doesn’t want to get sucked up by the vacuum then you like it just bend down pick it up you should man i don’t want to do that so you know you’ll like kick it to try to get it loose or whatever i’m just saying these lessons are kind of everywhere when you think about it all right man check general clark would agree i think yeah no he definitely would when he wasn’t like on the line yes of course fighting the nazis yeah or fighting the communists yeah these guys didn’t even have remote controls bruh they have tvs or couches from over here just trying to understand all right well there you go all right so back to the book he’s talking about the things that you can you can do to keep a unit trained up number one do essential things first there’s not enough time for the commander to do everything each commander will have to determine wisely what is essential and assign responsibilities for accomplishment he should spend the remaining time on near essentials this is especially true of training non-essentials should not take up required time required for essentials what do we call that we call that prioritize and execute next thing do things right the first time the commander should not consider his unit ready for battle until it can carry out a plan well the first time too often commanders hold rehearsals of things their units should be able to do well without rehearsal i like this because this is like a little bit you know there’s this mantra in the games about you should do one thi one third planning one-third gear prep one-third rehearsal we put all this emphasis in the rehearsal which is awesome and i 100 believe that but there’s things that you shouldn’t have to rehearse right and that’s what he’s saying or something you should just know should i have some some standard operating procedures that you should know look are we going to rehearse them yes we are but you should know you shouldn’t need you should rehearse them you shouldn’t have to rehearse them but you should rehearse i rehearse everything this practice causes officers and men expecting a dry run or two to pay little attention to initial instructions and to make inadequate preparations there will be no dry runs in combat it is good to issue adequate instructions and hold officers and men to them the first time that’s something that i wish i would have learned imagine saying hey look hey look i’m going to tell you guys this one time then we’re going to go execute no rehearsals just to see just to just to get people in the mindset of paying attention and figuring out where your directions and your planning is a shortfall because if i can’t say okay dave here’s what we’re gonna do you’re gonna go in this building i’m gonna go in this building you’re gonna take your squad you’re gonna move to here you’re gonna move to there does everyone understand all right we’re gonna go do it right now in this training exercise with no rehearsals that will show us the shortfalls of our planning and our communication it will also show the team shortfalls and when they don’t know what to do they should raise their hand and say hey boss that doesn’t make sense to me right now hold on a second let me hear that again i don’t understand that part practice more than one thing at a time okay so wait a second are we going against prioritize and execute is that what’s happening no actually whenever i see a unit practicing only one thing at a time i’m reminded of the history paper my son brought home one day the grammar construction and spelling were not good this is very poor english i told him but dad he said i was only being tested in history sound training requires that many subjects be skillfully integrated and taught concurrently this is an excellent time saver and training and he goes through this and and he what he’s saying is look you gotta do multiple things at the same time and even though prioritize and execute when you’ve got multiple problems and you can’t try and solve them all at the same time that doesn’t mean that you’re going to say hold on a second we need to move towards the target but we also need to make communications we can only do one at a time no there’s things that you have to do concurrently and that can include hey we’ve gotta move wounded people and we’ve gotta fight a firefight if we only ever practice just getting in a firefight and just moving people how do we know how to do both those things at the same time which you may have to do so do you have to prioritize and execute yes you do but guess what you also have to learn how to do things concurrently he says a paper integration and training schedule is not efficient so just like talking about it well you know if we have to do move a wounded guy while we’re in a firefight well then we’ll just do this x y z no you have to try it which is contradictory to rehearsals right don’t don’t do rehearsals yes do reverse a commander should take every opportunity to exploit the effects of integrated training it is the key to accelerated intensified unit combat training in effect it increases the amount of available training time good eliminate the habit eliminate the administrative habit and training i am convinced that all commanders should take maximum advantage of field training time to develop correct tactical practices and procedures we talked about that one last time practice dispersion concealment and can of camouflage the penalty for bad habits and passive measures in air defense warrants special mention the day when american soldier could be relaxed about dispersion concealment and camouflage is in the past so again how does this apply to everyday life and business train how you fight train how you fight know the status of men and equipment check uh check up on those that are absentee from training practice maintenance in the field practice and he’s got little sections about these each one of these practice sound troop leading procedures the subject of troop leading procedures and allied techniques requires increased emphasis on tactical exercises fundamentals found in field manuals and related publications are worthy of stress sound command procedures diligently practiced in all field training will form good habits in the unit commander form the checklist habit meticulous planning and reconnaissance are required to make sure that every minute in the field will be expended profitably checklists for this purpose are a necessary command and staff tool just as they are for supervising and testing the conduct of training what do you got i got the same thing i keep thinking about every time i hear what he has to say he he keeps repeating fundamental sound realistic fundamentals these are the fundamentals the basic things all the basic things associated with their job and being good at those things and training in a realistic scenario there’s a lot obviously general clark is talking about war he’s recounting his experiences of war i hear this i hear what he’s saying is connecting it to war but the the application of these things as i keep hearing it in my head hearing what you’re saying and thinking about the things i’m thinking about now if you are in the private sector anywhere in the private sector unless you happen to be in one of the rare sectors that’s not competitive and there are almost none if you were in the if you were in the american capitalist private sector you are at war your competitors don’t want to share space with you they don’t want to cooperate with you to to work in harmony to they want to run you over they want to take all of your clients all of your market share and all of your product they want to take all that from you and the way you are successful is the exact same things your people have to be trained on the fundamentals on everything that applies to them and the only way to do that is to find a way to train them realistically that replicates what they’re going to deal with in the real world in their real world it’s just kind of crazy how while it seems difficult to make the connection to his world the connection is so straightforward to any world that you’re operating in you know i’ve broached this subject before and i’m sure there’s got to be some kind of scientific or psychological experiment or whatever but the the improvement of your response from a time when you don’t know what’s going to happen and you haven’t practiced it to a time when you do know what’s going to happen you have practiced it is exponential it is absolutely exponential and we see this all the time at essential on front when we role play with people totally we put someone in a role-playing scenario and and they say we know i’ve got to go talk to this i gotta go talk to my supported leader who’s got a giant ego and okay roll in there and just talk to him see how that goes it’s going to be a disaster so you role play and guess what the first time you role play it’s a disaster the second time it’s ten times better yeah and then the third time it’s 15 times better and then the fourth time it’s 17 times better but that first look that first look that you get when you know a little bit of what to expect man you are just you’re exponentially more prepared for that situation and and we know when you’re in a leadership position you’re going to roll into a meeting where you’ve got to deliver some bad news to the troops you know what they’re going to say you know there’s eight responses you’re going to get why not think through those things why not think through those things you’re going to talk to a client that you’ve disappointed you’ve let down you’ve made a mistake you know they’re going to have one of six different reactions why not work through those why not have a contingency plan for each one of those six things this will take you four minutes to do it’ll take you and i four minutes to role play maybe it’ll take us five ten minutes to role play the six different responses when i roll into you and i say hey dave listen i know we promised you this product on this date we ran into some hiccups here’s the mistakes that i made here’s what we’re going to try and do to resolve it you’re only going to be able to say so many different things back to me yeah and if depending on how i respond i could either salvage that relationship or i could destroy it so why would we not train to be prepared for this there’s no reason there’s no excuse for it it doesn’t take a week to train for that situation it takes 10 minutes it does it takes 10 minutes if your own brain is the only place where you consider the potential outcomes of that conversation you’re gonna miss so many things if i get one other person sit across from me to answer in any way that they want how i’m going to interact with them i actually now a reveal the wow i didn’t expect that i didn’t see that coming i don’t know what to say here and you also have another person to just interact with you in a way that helps you anticipate a real response that you won’t consider if you do it in your own brain which is a vacuum because what you convince yourself is oh this isn’t going to be that hard of a conversation i’m just going to say this he’s going to say that everything’s going to be fine the role play scenarios we do to just to add one more thing to that when we do role play it usually comes right after we’ve done the initial training where we explain it he’s and he talked about this that is that is paper training hey this is what we’re going to do and it makes sense we think we understand it in our heads it resonates and we can explain these principles and we say okay let’s role model this the first role role play the first role play is always a disaster even when we just talked about it because on paper isn’t enough it’s not enough and three role plays later five minutes later they’ve gone from here to way up here it can then they can actually go have that conversation in real life in real time with the real person they need to talk to that five minutes of live realistic fundamental training is the difference this brings up another topic so i said hey look this this individual is only going to have six different responses right there’s a seventh and the seventh is one that you didn’t predict you didn’t understand and you didn’t think could come and guess what you can actually train your response for the thing that you just came that came completely out of left field and it might be as simple as when dave if dave says something to me that i had no anticipation and it doesn’t make any sense to me what am i going to do you know what i’m going to do i’m going to say if dave says to me well i’ll tell you what not only do we want our money back i want us i want to take you guys to court i didn’t expect him to say that our relationship wasn’t that bad and i said you know my response to him if if i don’t know what else to say i’m gonna say i’m gonna say dave you know what i need to think about this for a minute let me just think about what you’re saying because i want to make sure i understand that right there that right there is a response and it and if i’m prepared for it you know here’s a funny one when it used to be back in the day in the damns when you would go to get your seal trident you had to you should you got done with buds you went to a team you went through more training and then you were on probation for six months and then you had to go do an oral board for all the different departments and you had to go and program the radios and break down the weapons and build demolition charges and you know show how to put on a parachute rig and set up a diver you had to do all these different things answer all these questions and one of the things that you learned was or you better have learned was when someone asked you a question that you don’t know you better have a response for it and the response is you know master chief i’m not exactly sure if they answer that question but i know that it is in the dive manual that i can find down in the dive locker that’s great that’s that’s a that’s a response that the master chief says all right fair enough we’ll go you better get you better start learning a little bit deeper but if you go uh uh uh is it 30 feet for 30 minutes no it’s not 30 feet for 30 minutes you try and bs the master chief and you’re going to end up getting your ass kicked so what you do is you and we we did this we role played the uh the oral board me and my friends that showed up at seal team one and we’d gone through this training and now we were getting ready for that but we we crushed each other in those oral boards and one of the things that we figured out was which we got you know some of the senior guys said hey listen if you don’t know the answer it’s okay here’s the response but rehearsing that and being ready for it is infinitely better than no rehearsal go in there blind and get get smacked upside the head with something you didn’t expect that you will talk yourself into that you’ve got it covered if you’re doing this alone you’ll tell yourself like this isn’t gonna be that hard i got this covered and you go in there solo you’re gonna get crushed yeah because you just you don’t have that other person to put you in a spot and go wow hang on a second training is important yes uh he breaks down here organization for unit training training plans comprehensible and workable plans are indispensable and should be formulated with consideration of the following four essentials establish training goals that’s number one number two continuous evaluation this process must go on throughout the training cycle and as an integral part of it only by continuous evaluation can deficiencies be discovered early enough to make immediate correction possible number three testing closely related to evaluation is the more formal testing that is given to an individual or unit at the conclusion of a phase of training or block of instruction it’s here that we determine whether our training goals have been met number four remedial training i must emphasize here the value of remedial or makeup training once eve once evaluation and testing have identified the areas of deficiency remedial training must be used to correct them it should be an integral part of every training schedule of course the instruction will be designed to overcome specific weaknesses that have been exposed by the testing program and will have to be keyed to the specific needs of your unit it is essential however that remedial training be regularly scheduled gosh that makes sense so those are the four things established training goals continuous evaluation testing and remedial training what were the was there a test were there tests at each phase of top gun as you were going through the training yeah absolutely what was an example of a test the most common test that we give is that we’d want to make sure the students understood the mechanics of a system so how will missile system work how the targeting system worked how the radar system work you have we wanted to make sure they understood the mechanics of it before they use it in in practical terms it probably isn’t too much different than your experience of understanding how the radios worked before you were using them in the field right you had to understand hf propagation yeah you did you had to understand the ionosphere you you absolutely did because what would happen is you’re going to find yourself in a position and this is me i don’t know i was in that position as if you’re in a particular geography a particular place and talking to a particular other person some radio is going to work better than other radios and you might need to know hey you know what we’re like in the bushes here in the in the in the wilderness in the jungle this radio doesn’t work here it doesn’t penetrate through this this thing so there’s a million different examples of that if you get that out of order and you just work you you learn how to maneuver the system like i my my cursor moves it here and i move my my cursor on the display here and you don’t actually know what’s happening to the mechanics behind that you’re going to start making mistakes inside in specific settings oh it worked here so it must work everywhere like no it doesn’t work everywhere this environment is optimized here this environment it doesn’t work at all and if all you know is the mechanics and not what’s happening behind it you actually can’t apply it when it matters the most you know what that made me think of the book leadership strategy and tactics by me because because i say that exact same thing when i’m talking i compare i compare a leader to a woodworker and talk about the fact that you know when you’re a leader you got to know the different tools but then you got to if you’re a woodworker you got to know the different tools and then you got to know the different types of wood and then you got to know how to apply those different type those different tools to different types of wood and then you’ve got to realize that even each individual piece of wood a piece of pine is super soft a piece of oak is super hard you got to use those tools differently with those different types of wood and then on top of that each individual piece of pine is different it has a knot it has a rift it has a cut it has a split and you got to know how to deal with that so you got to understand the principles of the tools i may regularly plagiarize the hell out of that book by the way check uh talks about assignment of administrative tasks he talks about when a unit is under strength reduced strengths must be offset by more efficient utilization of men and equipment i got asked this question today by a client yeah but you know we we don’t we don’t we need more people guess what everybo everybody needs more people we got visited by a senior ranking officer in the seal teams when we’re in ramadi and leif likes to tell a story the the you know great great officer huge supporter says hey dude what else do you need out here is there anything else you need and i said i need two more task units worth of men you know like we need we had enough missions to get everybody busy but guess what we didn’t get anybody we didn’t you know like that’s the way it works um next next little section inject realism the experienced commander knows that soldiers do in combat exactly what they have been taught and have practiced in training therefore each training situation and problem must be as valid and realistic as possible with unreal or artificial aspects eliminated training must reflect as many of the conditions scenes noises and situations of the battlefield as ingenuity can conceive and safety rules will permit and i remember i remember i’d put on we’d be doing when i got back from my last one when when we got back from ramadi and i took over training a few months into that when you would put on your nods at night you would you might as well be in iraq you might as well have been iraq we had we had the the speakers playing gun battles and and called a prayer we had tires burning we had people dressed up like you know local iraqi citizens walking around it was freaking awesome it was freaking awesome that’s what you’re supposed to do damn i remember that the first time we were rolling into the moo then it was early in the morning it was a it was it was actually when the blue on blue happened in extreme ownership but when we were rolling in there i remember rolling in and like there’s tires burning in the streets and yeah i was like okay because what does that do that screws up your nods and luckily the sun was coming up but it was still dark outside but i’m thinking these these mujahideen fighters know what they’re doing these guys know what they’re doing there’s and then guess what so it messes up your night vision when you’re staring at these burning fires and then then the sun comes up well now there’s just black soot smoke everywhere and you you can guaran damn to you that when i got back and i was running training you rolled out the street wear bourbon tires your night vision’s going to be all jacked up and when you’re done with the night vision being all jacked up and the sun comes up guess what it’s going to be black smoke everywhere one of the best ways to emphasize realistic realism is to assess personnel casualties for improper use of cover or in the case of night exercises vehicles can be knocked out for unauthorized use of nights what does that mean you’re putting people get putting people down this is like trade instructions i might as well have written this for tradet to use this is exactly what we did oh you’re you’re not standing by cover cool you’re dead oh you’re gonna move out cross an open street without any cover fire roger that you’re dead you’re down man now let’s get this thing figured out oh by the way your buddy wants to come help you immediately without putting down suppressive fire cool he’s dead too let’s rock and roll who wants to figure this out who wants to put the cover in cover and move dude you’re literally like re i wrote that thing down fundamental sound and realistic oh cool you’re not applying the fundamentals you’re good oh your tactics aren’t sound cool he’s gone now what are you gonna do i mean i should have a tracker i should literally just be marking how many times he and you are referring back to the realism that’s required and the beauty of that especially when you have experiences it completely takes away that ammunition of this would never happen or or this is unrealistic you know them the the sich the unwinnable scenarios we go well this would never happen oh really oh cool this would never happen watch this and the easier the training is the more acclimated people get to things being easy and the more unwilling they are to believe how difficult they can be and when your training is realistic how many times have you told me and everybody the story of seth’s first firefight and the guy’s like wow how many firefights have you been in you must be and he’s like it was my first one that was my first one that comes from fundamental sound realistic training yeah and putting that guy in a position i might not be able to read i don’t know what this i can’t recreate this scenario i don’t know exactly how it’s going to play out but i do know what it’s going to be i i do understand how this is going to reveal itself and the only way to prepare for that is fundamental sound realistic training over and over and over again emphasis on night training self-sufficiency and confidence are key factors in developing a unit’s capability for night operations and this was just you know not going to spend a bunch of time on this because now we’ve got night vision but what is more important what are we talking about i’m not talking about night vision versus not night vision what i’m talking about is put your troops into hard training situations that’s what you need to do put your troops into the most difficult of situations because when you’re used to fighting at night even pre-night vision if you’re used to fighting at night number one yes you get used to it number two fighting at the day becomes easy it it makes fighting at the day become easy and it also gives you a potential advantage if it just so happens that your competition isn’t willing to put in the hard training at night good you’re going to dominate same thing here inclement weather training i got to read this one though because it’s funny adverse weather will inevitably be encountered in combat and will give rise to problems that can best be solved by experience it will have an impact on mobility on maintenance of vehicle and equipment on observation on the availability of tactical air support and in fact will hinder tackle operations in every conceivable way adverse weather conditions can be turned into an asset during battle however boom there you go so we’re already look bad weather good commanders should take every advantage of training under such conditions troops who have mastered the problems of operating effectively in spite of the weather can turn low visibility extreme heat biting cold or heavy rain into tactical advantage against an enemy not so well adapted to these adverse conditions so that’s everything you just said and then it’s this the solution of rainy day schedule is to put on the raincoat and take full advantage of the adverse conditions for profitable field training and experience totally legit you know what’s fun in the in the teams when there’s giant waves like when a massive storm comes and there’s massive just destroyer waves it’s like time to go out and do surf passage with the zodiacs and just get annihilated it’s so fun and they do that with bud students oh it’s oh the waves are freaking just giant cool get your boats you’re going to do surf passage or sometimes get together swim uh in the teams it was like hey rig up the zodiacs we’re gonna go get some experience in this stuff that’s what absolutely you have to do if you’re in the teams and there’s big waves in coronado or virginia beach and you’re not getting jocked up to go get some you’re wrong get your platoon together and get them out there getting after it cross-training for flexibility cross-training is vital to any organization when your personnel are trained in several jobs you have achieved depth and capability that may well split the difference between success and failure in combat of course needless switching of personnel from one job to another is harmful so cross-train but that doesn’t mean you switch them completely training personnel and duties other than their primary mos however will increase your peacetime efficiency and subsequent combat effectiveness it will also make the individual a more valuable asset to the army increases pride and self-confidence and may well help them qualify for promotion boom a little time spent cross-training will be amply rewarded in the increased overall effectiveness of your unit everyone will benefit not the least you as the commander just throws that in there everyone smiles got a little eagle this looks out every once in a while we hear it gotta be something driving this guy to do 45 years in the army i reckon but he likes that taking care of the troops also little benny little side benny for the man chaining chain of command a good organization always has a smoothly functioning chain a command a sound training program properly supervised can be the primary means of developing the proper functioning of the chain of command which is also essential in combat a good commander will guide the development of his unit to ensure that subordinate commanders retain and use their authority and responsibility in any unit the non-commissioner officer plays a leading role that’s your front line managers he must be carefully instructed given responsibility and then held accountable i frequently find squad leaders ignoring their team leaders by issuing orders giving fire commands and taking other actions directly with the individual members of the squads even worse i found responsible officers who were condoning these mistakes the squad leader should use his team leaders to exercise control over the squad at all times commanders should supervise an assault battle drill and squad exercise to ensure that squad leaders understand and apply the principle of exercising command over the rifle squad through designated team leaders so don’t jump through the chain of command let your subordinate leaders lead self-sufficiency and confidence confidence to fight semi-independently under conditions of decentralized control is developed by training exercises current concepts of warfare visualizing greater dispersion on the battlefield so we’re more spread out dictate the necessity for units to acquire self-confidence and self-sufficiency these aspects can be developed in most tactical exercises and can be furthered through realistic use of active aggressor forces force on force training that’s what we want to do ranger type operations also instill confidence and show the need for self-sufficiency when out of physical contact with friendly forces or beyond the range of mutual fire support so we’re not covering and moving it moving anymore the isolated unit becomes a problem in our training commanders should recognize the plight of the isolated unit not by simulating it but by actually demonstrating it when the small unit is confronted with an isolated mission confidence can always be instilled by ensuring that procedures are established for maintaining communications and for rallying to its support if required training should be aimed at developing integrated procedures for the employment of army aviation and air force troop carrier troop movements for resupply and medical evacuation so we have to learn to work independently but we always have to be able to support each other if we’re alone out on the battlefield we die you mean there’s a balance there there’s a balance there is a little dichotomy but cover move there’s another doctrinal term that i love is supporting distance i’m not allowed to be further away from dave if i can’t defend dave’s position or cover for dave because he’s out of the range of my weapon systems he’s too far away and that’s a perfect example of the cross training he’s talking about i could be an infantryman do i need to be an expert on indirect fires no i probably don’t need to know how to field strip every little but you know what i need to know how far that thing can shoot where because if i get too far away from that supporting element and i go well the reason i got too far away is i didn’t know how murders worked cool the outcome is your team gets annihilated so do i need to know every single thing that the mortar platoon commander knows no you don’t but you got to know a little bit you got to know how you and he interact together and so even that idea of cross training is if you don’t have a sort of a functional understanding inside your company you use the example before of the sales people and the customer satisfaction people if you’re a sales lead and the only metric you measure for success is how much you sell and you don’t realize that in the return department that number is the same you’re losing you’re losing because you there’s a piece that you don’t do you have to know everything they know you don’t and actually you don’t have time to know everything you know but you got to know enough you gotta have enough understanding what’s going on there to measure the success of the entire organization to include your team and that requires a little bit of cross-training and that is a perfect example of how come you need to know something about everybody small unit tactical exercises tactical exercises should be as well prepared as training tests as often as possible the tactical situation for a field exercise should be laid in the framework of an echelon one or two levels higher than the participating unit this is desirable to bring into play the necessary intelligence supply evacuation and similar roles of supporting forces that have a bearing on the specific tactical operation don’t confuse the squad leader however by giving him everything that was in the battalion and company commander’s orders that’s an interesting little point to bring up is that well they’re saying that you need to test the subordinate units you know subordinate leadership you you can’t just i can’t and this is true in the fuel teams i can’t test myself if i’m relying on me as the platoon leader to test my platoon it’s very difficult to do that look and it can happen and there’s some great platoon leaders that’ll be able to do that but there’s platoon leaders that will they’ll pass every test for some reason with flying colors because they’re not really being tested so it’s good when you are utilizing the chain of command and some of the some of the elements above to test the elements below so that’s that makes sense again he always emphasizes all exercises should be conducted under simulated combat conditions i think we’ve covered that one enough despite limitations on our capabilities to conduct field exercises and combined arms training i am convinced that commanders can always devise ways and means of achieving essential training objectives and i’ll give you an example that we would want to have close air support in our urban environment for training we’d want to have an ac-130 overhead we’d want to have f-18s overhead we’d want to have a marine corps fighter squadron ready to come and drop bombs for us that doesn’t always happen in fact it’s very rare that we would get those live assets so what would we do we would either bring a pilot or we’d bring a jtac a person that was qualified to call and we’d put them up on one of the buildings in our mount facility and give them a radio and and look it’s almost the same thing you know you got a guy that understands how pilots talk and he imitates a pilot talking on the radio and then we would put up simulated explosions to go off when if they drop the bomb in the right spot we would blow we’d blow something up and they’d get that they’d get that satisfaction in fact there was a company we were using that had little model airplanes they were actually big model airplanes but the model airplanes would fly over and then explosions would happen we kind of went the distance to make the training realistic launching these you know f-18s that would come down and strafe the city and explosions would go off it’s pretty good but that’s a great way to do it and what does it cost for me to give the radio to one of my jtacs and stay stand on a building it costs zero dollars zero what does it cost to get an f-18 to give me or a section of f-18s to give me a few hours of support it cost what a hundred thousand dollars yeah how much how much how much fuel do you burn in an f-18 in an hour 10 000 pounds yes check check so there’s always ways figure ways out training exercises should be concluded with a critique to provide the basis for reviewing the action and to indicate areas requiring additional requiring additional training emphasis boom debrief yes we have to do that the use of live ammunition is not authorized when sorry when the use of live ammunition is not authorized or practical or when its use violates safety requirements maximum utilization should be made of various simulators boom again i i basically could have written that you heard what i just said simulators can duplicate the sound of artillery machine gun smoke flash and most other effects associated with the noise and conditions of the battlefield including just tires burning habitual use of aggressor in the field exercises is desirable to develop interest in real realism the training value to the unit functioning in an aggressor role should not be overlooked the adherence to establish tactical principles and techniques by the aggressor forces will aid the friendly force in forming sound tactical habits this is why we we in the seal teams picked up so much emphasis on force on force training using simunition or these these high speed laser tag systems that we had this is why and that’s basically all you guys did at top gun right it’s a hundred percent aggressor and as an aggressor what do you fly in f-16 yeah how long does it take you to learn to fly an f-16 not long a couple months if that you know it that that part of it is not that hard are you worried when you go back to an f-18 that you’re gonna be have bad habits there’s a there’s something called negative transfer so there’s a couple of things that you gotta you gotta pay attention to you you gotta know that there are some differences that if you get those wrong those can be really bad but most of it transfers over pretty easily the the larger issue like you were talking about and i my first kind of real job at top gun was what’s called the adversary officer so my responsibility was to make sure that all the training scenarios that we developed at top gun on that’s a good name to give some of the people that we work with like you’re working with a company and you’re like oh you know what maybe we’ll just call you the adversarial office adversarial because there’s certainly people that that we work with we’re thinking man go you know you’re working with a company you think hey when i bring you in to when i bring up your name all i hear is like uh bad things this is not a good idea yeah what are you doing what what’s going on over here are you the adversarial officer here so uh sorry i cut you off no no i just say you know we were talking about the challenge of that is the adversaries officer adversary officer’s job is to make sure that the training scenarios that we built on the adversary side so the opposing force was realistic and reflected the capability of the enemy so we provided real training for for the for the blue students for the the the friendly fighters going out to fight because if they went out and fought an enemy that wasn’t performing the way a real enemy would they were going to be unprepared we had an entire you know cell inside of top gun designed just to learn and study enemy tactics to make arc training more realistic how what did you have did you have to fly the f-16 a certain way to simulate normally when we replicated a force on force so there was some incremental incremental training so at the beginning of some phases of flight training we limit the capability of the enemy aircraft to build get some building blocks and fundamentals but once we get to force on force training and most of top gun is straight up just your best game my best game as the as the adversary i’m flying the f-16 to the max performance capability and how did the max performance of the f-16 compare to the max performance of the su-27 or whichever close aircraft so it’s not exactly but but close and and better than a similar aircraft f-18 against f-18 me trying to replicate a different airplane like at the end of the day they’re machines now a different machine even if it doesn’t fully replicate the enemy it does things differently and that alone is a really powerful tool to practice against because it shows you things that oh i i can’t do that in my machine my machine won’t do that this airplane can and i have to have a tactic to respond to that am i mistaken in that the early 90s when i went up to fallon and i would go through some air wing training would it be mistaken to think that there were aircraft up there besides the f-16 that were acting as adversaries no i think you’re you’d be correct did you have any other aircraft besides the f-16 what would you guys fly or what what other adversary aircraft were available to your opposing force yeah the ones that the navy furnished the most common ones for the navy were the f5 and the f-16 but we also had contract air so we had you know um freedom fighter uh i yes you’ve got it absolutely there was a squadron of f5s uh in in uh as as adversaries in fallon painted like enemy aircraft designed just to replicate an enemy threat i remember those dude absolutely and did they have red stars on that they totally did on the tails yes absolutely i actually they might they probably still have them and we would outsource to you know we we get the air force to come bring up some f-15s to fly with us for a class we’d get um you know a contract company to fly you know french mirages and israeli kefirs just whatever was out there to give you the the student a what we call a dissimilar look f-18s against f-18s is not a great way to replicate real training so you want to give something that’s different sometimes it’s better sometimes it’s worse but the fact that it’s different creates much more realistic training why is it when i read about um like old-school fighter and like test pilots like reading when we had dan pederson on they’re just getting in different aircraft they’re just flying out to area 51 and just getting in random alien aircraft and just flying those things is that because those old-school uh aircraft were more similar in terms of the way you fly them no man i just think that those guys weren’t afraid of anything like i can fly that thing whatever um no i i think it was you know one of the coolest things that that dan pederson talked about here on the podcast and just in general was the idea that hey we need to go figure out how this stuff works we need to get in these machines and figure out how they work and and if we don’t we’re going to go across to vietnam and we’re going to lose because we don’t know how those machines work and regulations and restrictions and safety and all these things were forces were counterweights to doing that they’re all reasons not to do it was there a risk and yeah there’s a ton of risk that risk did not wade didn’t outweigh going to vietnam and losing and they they believed that and they pushed hard against the institution to be able to do that yeah and you know the last podcast we were talking about i was talking about the 80s and the 90s and and look when you’re in when it’s the 80s and the 90s and you’ve been tasked to you know do the best you can to maintain the the spirit of going to war but think of how hard the pushback is against pushing the envelope on training when you’re saying listen when you’re when you when you’ve got listen we better push the envelope otherwise we’re gonna go get killed in vietnam yep if it’s 1994 it’s like we better push the envelope otherwise then they come back and you say just hey don’t really push the idea yeah and it makes you know you’re like you know got it dude that was a tough time and if you look at kind of our our what we call the baseline adversary if you think about countries that would be our adversaries now china russia those countries were not a threat in 1994 they’re really the institution had a really hard time being convinced that we needed to train hard it was really it was a much harder sell now it’s it’s a very different environment and tr you know selling the training and demonstrating why we need to do this is actually easier uh because back then there was it was hard to make a compelling case why we needed to push the envelope for what and when you guys would look at doing a mission back then what were you thinking the big mission would be the the big mission in 1996 when you were thinking all right there may be a big mission that i need to be ready for i mean i guess we could look at the the bauklins this time yeah so the the things in near memory were desert storm and you know multiple you know the kosovo former yugoslavia those there was there was enough of those in there and there was always this believe it or not it held over there was always this specter of of of like you know great competition you know russia and america those those type of things so they those are always there and there was enough hold over from the kind of the cold war era of leadership which was the 80s and you know very early 90s was hey this stuff all travels in sine waves and sooner or later what’s going to happen is that their their ability which obviously we know that um and so that that specter of that was always there and the proliferation of their stuff all throughout europe and you know great great war competition type stuff was was always part of what we did that makes sense and i i guess it probably makes sense to think that what it was leaning towards in the teams back in those days and probably in you know in the greater ground troops the ground forces was that these this idea of like going into a sustained ground combat was really that ruse really seemed like a less likely thing all the time less and less likely that we’re gonna actually hey we’re gonna if you would have told me in 1995 hey the the us you’re the the frog men of the 2000s and the 2010s are going to do deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment to the desert and they’re going to be fighting in ground combat sustained for two decades it would have been it would have been very it would have been hard to predict yeah but we trained we trained and then we kept training next little section testing a unit’s proficiency the chief objective of readiness training is to ensure that all units are maintained at a high rate of operational readiness throughout the year that is that every unit is prepared to carry out its combat mission at any time operational readiness testing to determine your unit’s operational teddy operational readiness you must provide testing and he kind of talks about what to cover as a minimum he talks about you got these various abilities the ability to rendezvous the ability to shoot moving communicate all good and he talks about um for best results readiness tests should be unannounced which i totally agree with these tests should be practical demonstrations of how successfully a unit can be expected to execute all or any part of its emergency mission totally get now here’s where here’s where testing can concern me when we do a test we we we kind of have to give hey here’s the task condition and standard right here’s the here’s what you’re going to be told to do here’s the standard and here’s what you need to do it right um or sorry here’s the task right this is what you have to do here’s the conditions of that task and here’s the standard that you have to meet i was working with a a government agency and one of the tasks of this government agency was they had to be able to interdict vessels small vessels and so in order to interdict these vessels they may have to disable the motor of that vessel and so they had to be able to shoot a weapon from a moving vessel that they’re in at another moving vessel to disable an engine okay got it so over time that became a qualification that you had to get and over time it became a test that you had to you had to be able to successfully complete this test in order to maintain this qualification to do it and here’s the thing one of the guys that was had this standard was telling me about the test and he was complaining about the test and what had happened was this test the task condition and standards were so controlled that there was no realism to it whatsoever and it was okay the the target vessel will have a target on that vessel that is whatever three feet by three feet the vessel will be moving in xc state which was no waves they basically would do only do it if there was no waves happening whatsoever and it will be moving at five knots and the assault vessel will also be moving at five knots the distance will be 14 feet and it was just this whole thing and so basically you know it took zero skill to do it it took zero skill it was basically a 10 or 20 foot shot at a nice big target and it didn’t prove anything the reality of shooting an engine to get an engine to go down on an outboard motor is a pretty tough thing at sea state at night there’s a lot of things going on and by the way what weapons do you have because if you have if you know if you’ve got a laser on your weapon and it’s at night you’ve got night vision on and you can train your laser on that you’re at a c-state you can keep it steady you can fire a few rounds cool i worry about testing sometimes because when you put tet when you put task conditions and standards so that you can provide a test oftentimes those restrict the environment and they make it canned and when things become canned [Music] you’re not you’re not testing on what you want to test on so i would always you know sort of have testing things and then i’d have the real test you know which is going to be mayhem it’s going to be mayhem and that’s what we want to see how do you handle the mayhem when you have night vision on and a laser if you don’t have night vision on can you still see that laser there’s lasers that you can see and there’s lasers that you cannot see so you could have a laser without night vision that’s a red laser it’s like what you see in the movies yeah yeah are you familiar with movies oh yeah terminator one so you get you get laser where you where you can see the little red dot yes sir that’s a visible laser there’s also ir lasers infrared lasers that you can’t see without night vision on but with night vision on it’s it’s it’s actually insanely bright and clear and then they have something that’s an ir flood which so you can actually are lighting up the entire target area with so it’s illuminated and then there’s a laser right in the center of it and that you can see that without goggles nope you need goggles the equivalent to that would be just a regular flashlight which we also have where you press a button and a flashlight comes on and in the center of that flashlight there’s a red laser gotcha okay so okay you have all of that in place all that you have all that on your weapon all the time oh dang okay so the whole deal that’s why when you see guys weapons now yeah it gets pretty high there’s a lot of stuff going on in weapons and it’s getting better you know because all these little pieces are getting smaller and they’re they’re they’re consolidating some of these pieces so it’s one piece instead of three different pieces you know now you can get like a a grip that has a has a white light and a red laser in it and the batteries there was a time where you had the battery thing and then you had the laser thing and then you had a battery for the flashlight thing and you had wires going all over the place it was a total gut check nowadays people are making stuff more square away bottom line what about that one you know the ones that like you can see the laser through the little lens almost kind of thing you know so that’s like oh you can see the dots you can see a red dot yeah yeah that’s that’s just another type of system and the enemy is not going to be able to see that yeah but you guys don’t have those no we have those too on the deal okay bro and the teams you got everything yeah it’s pretty awesome actually what guys are doing now that’s really cool because it’s sort of getting next level the way that the technology is just really getting so much better right now high speed yeah it’s getting way more high speed and the guys systems are much better than they were you know i mean the the the changes that took place from vietnam to 1995 is is tiny compared to the changes that took place last year you know it’s just exponentially better weapon systems and and not so much the weapon system but the the accoutrements that you put on the weapon systems are way better i mean i mean i get kind of crazy when i’m watching like some of the new technologies coming out is awesome awesome to see next little section is and by the way just i skipped you were wondering dave i told you i was going to skip some stuff the stuff that i skipped it really goes into like the details of each and every type of unit that you can be working with and it goes into just some very granular detail good for a military leader but a little bit too granular for general public consumption and you know i haven’t i haven’t actually started the execution of publishing this thing on my own and obviously i need to this needs to be a jocko published jocko publishing book so i gotta i guess i gotta figure out the legality that i think the legality is none i think it’s it’s more than 50 years old which means it’s public domain so i’ll write a little forward to it and we’ll go from there go dave i was writing a note that maybe i’ll write the forward the cool thing about the theme of this is that you’ve traced this back to the influence on you and the influence of the influencer on you well there’s now another layer here oh one more layer one more layer deep of of where we’re all pulling this from which is you recounting where you pulled it from and now you’re actually connecting to where hack pulled it from so check all right sounds like the next jocko publishing book has been delineated uh you know what’s interesting so the name of this and i brought this up already but it’s uh stackpole publications and by the way stackpole publications you’re welcome because i know i’ve read books from you that you publish one of them i know is the clay pigeon st low which we covered a long time ago the glover johns which by the way is another connection back to hackworth and i talked about it i’m i’m pretty sure some of copies of clay pages st low sold i wrote stackpole books an email and said hey i’m here there’s a book i’m trying to find i haven’t been able to try it haven’t been able to find it um love to you know do something write a forward you know republish this thing whatever never heard back from him unfortunately you know i probably i i don’t think i was persistent enough i probably sent him one maybe two emails so i probably should have done a better job and explained to him maybe better where i was coming from didn’t do a good enough job but hopefully we’ll do something with it um so back to this training for contingency operations in addition to being prepared to execute combat missions as part of a combined force units overseas must be trained and ready to perform a wide variety of contingency operations it is not possible to identify all contingencies which may face army units stationed overseas generally a unit that is well trained for its basic combat mission will be capable of supporting contingency operations commanders must be aware however that their troops may be employed in areas where the weather and terrain differ greatly from that found in areas in which they are stationed combat ready elements should be air transportable for movement on shore notice to potential trouble areas they should be trained to quell civil disturbances control riots guard to recover critical installations bolster civil authorities and police provide emergency relief from natural disasters and handle numerous other related tasks and imagine if commander can visualize appropriate and feasible contingency missions for his unit and present it with appropriate training situations now here’s here’s something that i’ll throw in there it says such such training will provide variety but must be based on logical conditions that be realistic the thing that i’ll throw in there is since you don’t know what these contingencies are you have to train people on what to do when they don’t know what to do how do you assess a situation how do you look at it how are you looking at it with an open mind and that’s one of the one of the real benefits of i had of growing up in the seal teams is we lacked doctrine we have more now man when i grew when i was gotten the teams there was no there was almost all word of mouth and and so when you got told hey you’re going to do this type of mission you just got told word of mouth of how you’re going to do it and if it was a type of mission that no one had ever done before we were going to sit there and make up how to do it there was no book to refer to we didn’t and we didn’t have i’ll tell you what we didn’t have in 1995 no one ever said to me hey we’re doing an assault here’s the army manual of what they do no one ever said that i never saw an army manual you know uh in the teams in the 90s it was all word of mouth so you had to you got you have to put people in situations where you go hey hey it’s a random mission figure out how you’re going to do this figure out how you’re going to do this and then you see what they do and there are protocols for what to do when you don’t know what to do then it gets into this section right here which is you know i was like oh maybe i’ll skip this and then i read like four lines i’m like all right this is freaking awesome so tr guidelines for planning brigade and battalion attacks training regardless of size of unit has but one purpose that is to teach effectively the techniques of combat the attack is the key to success the defense is merely a temporary expedient to conserve forces for an attack elsewhere or to prepare for an attack at a future date so the only reason you’re going on defense is so that you can go back on the attack that’s the only reason you’re going everything is to attack that’s all you’re doing you’re going to attack oh we got to hesitate cool we’re hesitating so that we can attack later that’s what we’re doing we’re going to attack the consequences of having an attack grind to a halt are great the effort required for it to bounce back is tremendous once an attack is launched its momentum must be maintained until the objective or objectives are seized and secured battle losses received due to poor planning and faulty execution are inexcusable and will result in a loss of respect for and confidence in the commander the best reputation a commander can have is that he accomplishes his missions with few losses the end sought in planning and executing an attack is brought about by deliberate planning and violent execution the opposite is fatal speed and planning is often needed but haste should be avoided remember that in combat there is no second opportunity and seldom opportunity for rehearsals this deliberate planning is accomplished in five phases phase one basic factors principal factors which must be considered by a commander in deliberate planning are mission enemy situation troops available terrain and weather this is something we all learn basic mission enemy troops available terrain and weather phase two tentative plan of attack how much time do my subordinates and i have for reconnaissance planning and the issuance of order what general scheme of maneuver do i want to employ what formations are feasible what is the mobility of my command how much dispersion can i achieve and still accomplish my mission with speed and violence what’s supporting nuclear fires are planned for or are available to to me and for adjacent units when i got to that i’m like thinking wow wow this is i think this book is 1962 1963 this is like it’s on cold war and we’re thinking if we if we’re going to do an attack you know what we may bring in some tactical nukes that’s where we’re at so these guys are planning and thinking and thinking through using nuclear weapons on the battlefield how can i employ my conventional fire support that’s a secondary thought by the way my primary’s going nuke what logistical problems problems will i have can i support the operation logistically what is the status of personnel and equipment how can i best use my supporting elements to include armor armor personnel carriers and helicopters are communication facilities are adequate can i communicate with my supporting units do their radios net with mine what flank security problems do i have how can i best control the attack from where what control measures what must i be ready to do next when i have seized and secured the objective so that’s that right there that was the tentative plan of attack and then it goes detailed plan of attack having analyzed these factors and having developed a tentative plan based on this analysis the commander is ready to get down the details these things must then be considered what is the formation that will be initially used mounted dismounted or by helicopter what units will be in the initial attack what units be in the supporting or in reserve what will constitute my base of fire because it’s all cover and move we’re gonna have a base of fire we’re gonna have a an element maneuvering will forward assembly areas or attack positions be used for my attacking troops if so where when will my components of my fire support start when will we shift fire and stop how will i arrange for this to happen how can i exploit the effects of my supporting nuclear fires bro it’s so crazy to think about from what position will each of my attacking elements start they’re attacking by fire and maneuver cover and move this is the true line of departure and should be considered as such that’s an ld there may be other cording lines or points in the rear how and from what distance will i start a coordinated assault what command signal and contingent will i use to start it what reports will i expect from my subordinate units what reports will i give to my superiors with whom should i establish liaison how when and where should i issue my attack order what arrangement should i make for this and then it gets into the wargaming so the reason i’m going through this is like think of the level of detail think of the you know i got that section of discipline equals freedom field man was like question everything this is it man what are we doing how are we doing it having a checklist like this to think about before you conduct an operation i don’t care if you’re in a business i don’t care if you’re going to grocery store thinking about what you’re going to be facing this is a smart way to operate phase four war gaming the plan the commander now having come to a pretty firm idea of what he wants to do and how he wants to do it now wargames it in his mind and asks himself the following questions this is when you’re trying to punch holes in your own plan to the maximum extent possible have i based my plan on knowledge gained through active ground map and arrow reconnaissance and knowledge of the enemy situation have i analyzed the enemy defense thoroughly thereby locating and taking advantage of weaknesses in enemy disposition or terrain where the defender cannot use his weapons or obstacles to advantage have i given adequate consideration to terrain and weather what effects do they have on the accomplishment of my mission have i planned for maximum exploitation of available nuclear fires have i considered troop safety in the planning of my nuclear fires and schema maneuver have i considered the use of armored personnel carriers have i considered the effects of nuclear weapons upon the terrain over which i am attacking blow down contaminated areas secondary fires blow i didn’t know what blow down was i had to look it up guess where i went i went to fm 100 tac 30 nuclear operations what is it blow down is when trees get blown down and they’re splintered and they’re they create just obstacles everywhere they’re very hard to move through so you got to account for that in your assault you’ve got to account for the blowdown of the nuclear weapons you use to prep the area for assault man have i provided for full shock effect on the enemy this comes from surprise tanks and strengths attacks from several directions simultaneously intensity of supporting fires during the assault and the speed of the assault by use of armored personnel carriers and helicopters does my plan provide for the waiting of the main effort have i used attacking units as a base of fire when i have artillery heavy weapons and mortars for this purpose isn’t it it’s crazy that everything is covered move everything is covered and move the use of tanks for this purpose is especially faulty if the tanks can be used in the attack roll to close with the enemy and overrun them has the excessive use of attack troops as a base of fire as reserves or as reconnaissance and security elements caused me to have too little strength in the attack have i selected uh unnecessary intermediate objectives which just well let me go back to number 10 here um have i used too much of the attack troops in the base of fire so when you have we’d be doing assaults like let’s say it was a basic seal platoon in the 90s and we’d be doing an assault and so you have a base of fire and then you have an assault element and you you could say okay squad one you’re gonna be the base element squad two you’re gonna be the assault element so squad one you’re gonna lay down this base of fire and while you’re laying down that base of fire in comes the maneuver element the assault element is gonna move into position and then they’re gonna start going through the target and then the base of fire is gonna shift off the target but they’ve suppressed the enemy fire now you can go through pretty clean so there’s a tendency to think well you know i’ve got this base of fire why don’t i take my machine gunners from squad two and put them in the base element so they have massive firepower and plus that means the assault elements a little bit lighter they can move a little bit quicker and we’re good and and i remember you know sitting in a platoon brief and we were gonna do that it wasn’t my plan i you know i was like a new guy literally a new guy just sitting there going okay tell me what to do and the plan got briefed hey okay well this is how we’re gonna task organize for this assault we’re gonna put all the machine gunners so four machine gunners in the base element and so we have this massive firepower and then these other guys the point man from the from squad one and the rear security from crowd one and whatever one of the corpsmen from score they’re gonna go down and they’re gonna go through the assault element and so then the old master chief says well what if what if the assault element gets compromised they got no machine guns what if the base element once the assault element gets compromised and starts to engage the target what happens if now they have to go on the assault and now the base of fire is weak from the former assault element so what did that tell me i remember sitting there thinking okay you got to be that’s a contingency and what you’re really doing is you’re you’re you’re you’re chained you’re giving away so much tactical advantage because not only that a sealed platoon squad a squad is meant to work a certain way there’s a reason it’s designed that way and all of a sudden you mix it all up now now it’s not really a seal squad anymore there are no freaking machine gunners in it what’s a seal freaking squad without machine gunners but you’ve taken those machine gunners away and then you’ve overly burdened the other one with too many machine gunners so that idea of hey i’m going to make these adjustments for this particular situation and if everything goes perfect it’s good but if anything changes it’s bad what are the chances things are going to go a little bit different the chances are freaking too high and you don’t really gain that much there’s not really that much of an advantage anyways so that that reminded me of that next have i selected unnecessary intermediate objectives which distract from the attainment of the final objective intermediate objectives facilitate control and maintain direction however too many such objectives destroy flexibility and initiative and tend to slow up the attack man man that’s good you know what’s good about that i like that because it’s contrary to what we all say i say and i’m saying we not i’m not just talking about ashland front you know people say what and it makes sense we know it makes sense hey we got this big project due okay let’s figure out some intermediate steps so that we have some short-term goals and we can move in that direction and it feels good we get gratification we make sure we’re on track there’s a dichotomy can we go too far with that yes we absolutely can now all of a sudden we’ve got goals that we’re trying to achieve and we’re doing reports on goals that don’t even freaking matter don’t let that happen have i determined the time and space factors of attacking units from the lighter departure back to the assembly area have i set the stage for the assault have i set the limited or the lighter departure too far back have i used my forward air control or supporting artillery commander supporting battery mortar commander engineer platoon leader communications officer assault assault gun platoon leader reconnaissance platoon leader surgeon and my planning and my staff in planning checking and completing the detail plans and i’m kind of breezing through but that one right there i’m gonna pause so he names off all these different people all these different professionals and then he says have i used them in planning checking and completing the details of my plans and the reason i want to focus on that because a bunch of times he talks about hey i got to give my plan have i given my plan clearly and what he’s saying here is it’s not my plan it’s the plan of the artillery guy the mortar guy the engineer guy the communications guy the assault guy the reconnaissance guy the surgeon and my staff it’s their plan have i used them to come up with this plan and if i haven’t then i’m wrong have i considered the ammunition available to my fire support units are my supporting fires planned so that there will be no lulls during critical phase of the attack am i given consideration the use of nuclear fires to time fire over my tanks if the tanks are available to smoke to having my infantry follow closely and supporting fires does my plan require holding up any elements during the attack to clear barriers or obstacles does my plan of attack foresee and provide for the next step in case of success partial success or failure this planning should in no way influence the violence with which the attack is to be executed but think about that hey do i have a plan for success partial success or failure do i know what i’m going to do have i given some unit the mission of watching and securing my flanks have i ensured that after the seizure of the objective my units have a detailed plan for consolidation reorganization and continuing the attack so they will not rest on their laurels thus exposing themselves to a surprise counter-attack and losses from enemy fires or the loss of the initiative just imagine sitting down with your leadership as you assess something that you’re going to do and try and come up with this many holes to punch in your own plan if you’re not doing this the holes don’t get filled in having having next phase is the attack order having war game the plan in his mind and being satisfied as to his condition i know i’ll say this it’s not in it’s not in his mind as far as i’m concerned i’m getting the staff together we’re gonna sit there i’m gonna have everyone beat this plan up we’re gonna go through these questions we’re gonna come up with more questions having wargame the plan in his mind and being satisfied as to his solution the commander then proceeds to the actual issuing of his order it can be assumed that sometime during the foregoing phases he has in addition considered the following he’s not even done considering yet i must i must not take so much time in making my plans and announcing my orders that my subordinates have inadequate time before h hour in case of doubt i will send a staff officer forward to a subordinate commander rather than calling him back or hold my conference for issuing orders well forward what does that mean we’re taking care of the front line commander dude hey dave i know you’re preparing for this right now but i want you to come back to my location so i can brief you no negative i’ll send a guy out to to get you make sure you know what you need to know in order to avoid misunderstandings and overlooking overlooking important things i must issue my orders in the standard sequence i must make sure that every commander knows what he is to do and when i must impress all with the need for vigorous execution of my plans if the answers to all these are satisfactory you and your units are off to a good start what what do you like about that if you do all these things yeah all these things you’re off to a good start good job you made the first step in the right direction do not later second guess your decisions and change your orders now this is one to talk about at least a little bit um are there times when you need to change your orders absolutely are there times where new intelligence comes to light and you say to yourself you know what the plan that i came up with is no longer optimal i need to change it does that happen yes are there times where you you some micro change occurs on the battlefield and you decide to change plans that’s already been rehearsed thought through and and everyone’s been briefed and now you’re gonna throw a a curve ball at everybody i can almost guarantee you that you should just as we used to say in the teams plan your dive and then dive your plan plan your diving dive so you come up with a plan and then go and execute your plan when you start throwing curve balls and trying to change things on the fly it was actually evan evan evan hafer from black rifle coffee uh i was out doing some archery with him and uh we were talking about something he goes yeah yeah we’ll just figure it out under water which is which is actually hilarious thing because when you’re diving obviously you can’t talk you can’t figure anything out in the water and and surprisingly i’d never heard that expression before but it’s it’s freaking awesome yeah it’s freaking awesome hey we’ll just figure it out underwater meaning if we let this go we are screwed we’re screwed so you don’t want to figure things out underwater what you do is you dive your plan this is such a this is why leadership is hard because there are absolutely times where you go you know what bad plan we need to change we need to change it right now we need to change the plan right now that’s fine there’s also times where you say you know what we’re close and what we will gain from trying to adjust this plan right now will be the adjustments will be so hard to make at this juncture that it’s going to counter any positives that will come from trying to change this plan right now so you have to be careful of that uh don’t harass the subordinate commanders while they are planning issue their orders and getting ready to carry out their assignments you and your staff should make such checks as are needed without violating this don’t bother the front line troops once the attack starts you can influence the battle by shifting of supporting fire’s maneuver and use of your reserves you should be prepared to do this you should now anticipate what may happen so that you will be at the critical spot at the critical time to give that command push necessary to keep the attack going commanders should make planning the attack a subject for schools and table exercises and tactical walks or rides for the appropriate officers and man i know you didn’t get a chance to do ef battlefield which we went out to gettysburg but that tactical walk that we just it’s freaking awesome it is awesome um walking the battlefield and understanding the terrain and seeing it on the ground is absolutely phenomenal lessons learned are incredible i’m going to have i’m going to jason and steve on we’re going to talk about that uh and this is really the last piece and we’ll we’ll hold off for one more i think we’re going to get one more episode one more one more episode for me to fulfill my my my own personal uh satisfaction in this book a commander who prepares a checklist from these guidelines will have a great aid in time of pressure it will enable him to plan thoroughly with speed instead of haste so instead of haste uh do essential things first do things right the first time practice more than one thing at a time so many just quotes to think about i think one of the first quotes i sent you in a little picture the attack is the key to success the defense is merely a temporary expedient to conserve forces for an attack elsewhere or to prepare for an attack at a future date so many good quotes and and look i’m not saying that you should blindly follow the thoughts and ideas in this book and i would never say that and we’ve we’ve gone back and forth and we’ve hinted at areas where we disagree with with what the general has to say but i’ll tell you what at a minimum you should consider them you should consider that you could consider those thoughts you should understand where they came from you should understand what they meant you should i should keep them in front of mine because these are lessons that were written in blood and they were proved on the battlefield and they were meant as the book states you know i’m sitting here saying hey don’t you know don’t follow blindly guess what the book is called the book is called guidelines it’s called guidelines guidelines are supposed to steer us they’re supposed to get us going in the right direction they’re not supposed to be followed blindly they’re not supposed to be obeyed with with no deviation whatsoever they’re supposed to steer us it’s supposed to sear the people that we lead in the right direction what do you think dave it’s kind of crazy right dude it’s crazy that i’m i’m scribbling i’m writing notes on this you know my hearing what he’s saying and i’m just kind of thinking about almost trying to put myself in in general clark’s shoes as if i could do that but that’s page after page after page of what appears to be all this kind of minutiae all these little details he’s bringing out but they’re all things just like you just said these are all things that he has probably seen over and over again be the reason why teams don’t succeed and i was i was trying to summarize what he was saying in my mind is how much of your plan how much of this thing that you’ve created you build the strategy this is what we’re gonna go do then you build a plan how much of that plan as you go through these other phases to test it and pressure test it and consider the errors in it how much of that is really based in reality how much of is based in truth and how much is this what you conjure up in your own brain thinking this is all gonna work out my idea is brilliant i know what’s gonna happen i put it all together in my head and this is how it’s gonna play out this perfect scenario that i create and he’s basically saying don’t do that bring in all these other people to annihilate and poke holes and dig and pick and and pull every possible error in omission and all the things you haven’t done in your plan and in the same breath he’s saying and oh by the way we’re gonna stick to the plan and the reason we’re gonna stick to the plan is because actually it’s not my plan anymore it hasn’t been my plan for a long time because all these people came in and understand what we’re trying to do picked apart and they’re the ones are going to go execute and you you talked about humility before the humility of of a of a leader to say i built the strategy up with the plan you know why you guys are all here to figure out everything wrong with it so you can go execute when the scenario completely falls apart because there’s no way i can predict what’s going to happen i mean that is that is crazy the application to that in life is especially since this is a guideline it is universal because that’s what you need to do i i don’t know the tag all the tactic i don’t know how the thing is going to play out i don’t but hearing what he’s saying and the risk of creating it in your own mind and saying this is what’s going to happen go execute and setting your team up to fail for not being prepared for the thousands of contingencies that are absolutely going to happen with your plan that finish was and i know it’s not to finish the whole thing but that finish was crazy and then he likes to he concludes with and oh by the way if you do all these things you’re off to a good start you’re off to a good start dude that’s a man i i think i talked about an ef online i think i might have even talked about the debrief podcast of planning with a negative attitude like when you’re coming up with a plan you should you should be looking at that thing as a total pessimist this isn’t gonna work we’re not gonna have enough people the enemy’s gonna be there that’s how you wanna plan and then the other thing you gotta be careful of you know you just said thousands of contingencies and it there are thousands of contingencies and there’s no possible way you can plan for thousands of contingencies what you can do is you can have decentralized command you can have a plan that’s adaptable you can give people the freedom to maneuver to adapt to those contingencies which are unforeseen as long as they understand why they’re doing what they’re doing and they understand what the intent of the operation is they can make a thousand decisions and never even talk to you never talk to you one time and that’s the goal the plan has to be flexible enough that the the command needs to be decentralized down to the lowest possible level and as long as everybody understands what it is that we’re trying to accomplish they understand why they’re doing what they’re doing they understand the intent of the operation they can make a thousand decisions by themselves and get the mission done and that is a powerful thing to think about so like i said i think we got i think we’ve got one more podcast for this book and then we’ll be done and i’ll we’ll we’ll we’ll get it out there to the world we’ll get some some version of it out there to the troops and that way we can use this book to guide us to steer us in the right direction so echo charles um speaking of steering us and guiding us sir yep in the right direction in the right direction maybe in that right direction where we’re gonna when we need that remote yeah we’re gonna get up and we’re gonna we’re gonna do the right thing we’re gonna get the sweat full yes solution or the solution with some sweat we’ll see yeah potentially check either way yes so a path really direction the path um okay yes we’re all on this path and a wise man’s once said path is not easy the path is hard anyway so okay so on this path we do need supplementation okay and supplementation and kind of you can afford kind of sometimes forget about this where you know how like you’re okay you probably will never have this problem maybe you do maybe i don’t know but dave burke maybe so you know how like you’re really used to taking okay so i’m really used to taking discipline right before workouts and if i start running low or run out panic yeah like no well for lack of a better term we’ll say yeah panic but it’s the kind like if i run out i don’t know if i can work out of course i’m not thinking that specifically but that’s the feeling i get you know but then i got to remind myself no no this is all supplementation help on this path that’s what all this stuff is so just keep that in mind okay right so anyway with that and the reason i thought about that also another reason was uh this the path is hard right like i just said okay so the other day my wife got injured right so i took on some of this not serious by the way because i’m i mean it’s not not certain but i’m saying i just i don’t want people worried about you oh yeah yeah right okay so no correct yeah like yeah some fractures on the feet you know whatever you know i had to slide into injuries that are not life-changing in any negative way fully recoverable but we’re pushing through it we’re going to recover we’re going to shift some some some resources right you know some sliding into various roles right one of them is required a little bit earlier of a morning for me mm-hmm a lot earlier you know right nine o’clock we’re not gonna go into those details you know um but i wound up with if i’m not mistaken two hours of sleep a little bit more than two hours like under three hours of sleep right so of course you know what that means the workout becomes questionable you see what i’m saying but so i started thinking and it has has to do with what we were talking about last time where you kind of think about it like what does it take to to get this workout done and my default is well obviously a long nap first but let’s say that’s not available to us wouldn’t you rather just get it done well you know i’d rather it be done for sure but i don’t know about the getting it part you see i’m saying when you’re only on two half hours sleep whatever anyway so i’m like what would it take okay so what if and this is just going on in my mind what would it be like like what’s holding me back from actually just doing it you know like what would would is there anything that would keep me from achieving that you know getting the workout done it sounds small like like such a small deal when i’m saying it out loud but nonetheless have you ever i saw a video the other day of joe rogan and they had joe rogan somebody was talking to him and they just were like they were showing his face while the person was talking he was thinking about like some other totally random yeah he just wasn’t paying attention is that how you’re feeling right now [Music] dude what are you talking about brad trust me trust me this is gonna let’s bring it home he’s gonna have bring it home no i’m bro i’m telling you this will have something okay so i wind up just concluding that i end up concluding that okay dave’s gotta look at the scary thing is no dave i just look at dave’s face no he’s gotta look at his face like he’s really trying to he’s trying to stay with you yeah he’s staying with me because he knows that like he’s gonna be able to use this okay this all right approach all right so anyway i’m like okay technically there’s nothing keeping me from getting this workout done even though it seems like a real painful idea right now is there anything keeping you from getting this story done the actual content of the story so bear with me right you should incorporate this mindset into right now okay all right all right i can’t finish it if i don’t start it okay anyway the answer ended up to be nothing aside from me very much not being in the mood to i had convinced myself that i need a certain amount of sleep to get a workout done on an individual level it’s not true not true so it’s kind of like okay it’s kind of a form of realizing that you kind of have mental toughness in a way okay like realizing it not invoking it just realizing it and then you can use it so i got the workout done okay all right what also what that did what that did also is set the precedent there i was thinking it was going nowhere it set the precedent for if that happens again you just automatically know you see insane okay rather than trying to dig deep you don’t have to dig deep you just got to realize some stuff sometimes this is what i’m saying roger anyway okay cool back to the supplementation when you’re doing these things right whether you’re out of discipline or not this is all supplementation you do the workout you take the supplementation it’s like you ever play that game super off-road again bro no it’s like a game like you race in the truck fro it makes sense you race in a truck and then if you win you get credits where you can buy like acceleration or speed or traction or whatever right that’s what every one of these supplements is okay you see i’m saying got the discipline for your mind for your body got milk for the protein you know all these things so if you get them all like you have the full decked out routine for the path is what i’m saying so a bunch of things joint warfare super krill discipline vitamin d cold war milk yeah but smashing pumpkin milk which has to be just brought up because yeah it’s good but you got to include what monk is that monk is though it’s protein doesn’t everyone know that now kind of i mean let’s face it maybe this is the first one to listen to your story bro there’s some there’s no they know everything i think you’re factually incorrect on that i think that that your opinion is factually incorrect on that i feel like there was some value there okay dave was there some value there or no do you think there was some value yes sir i’m i gotta be honest with you i’m kind of over here thinking there’s a little bit of a conflict in what you’re saying okay because what i would think is if i was on two hours of sleep man i’m like look the sooner i get this the sooner i get in the sooner i get out and you are in complete control of that situation and it’s kind of the situation we’re in right now is like bro if there’s anybody in control of getting through the support phase it’s you bro you can jam through this well much like you did that workout well respectfully i don’t think this phase is the part you just jam through as it were you know this is important information i don’t know i think it is you do you think it is fair enough all right well let’s not jam through it how about that guys cool can we thanks for the support okay hey look jocko if you want to be invited back onto this podcast you’re gonna bear with me okay anyway supplements joint stuff joint warfare super acryl oil is for your joints okay vitamin d3 cold war immunity also other benefits discipline discipline go for your mind and your body every day take that one it’ll help you trust me it’ll help you energy drink to splingo rtd energy drink healthy legitimately factually healthy real energy real energy not like hey i’m hyped up for two hours and now no real energy clean energy and this sounds kind of like odd but there’s no poisonous elements in there yeah it seems it seems odd to have to say that until you look at some other energy changes it’s things out there that do have poisonous sounds that may or may not happen or things that can be considered poisonous yeah so you know there’s that so it’s a big deal all right boom continuing on the list milk dessert in the form of a protein all kinds of flavors including but not limited to smashing pumpkin which is inspired by pumpkin spice yeah it is fall at the moment hey listen we just real quick when you talked about maybe some other let’s call them energy drinks broadly right now we’re experiencing some conflict some people might even say acts of war sure have been have transpired in this category so we may need to go well we will retaliate we are retaliating the best way if you want to help retaliate and you happen to at this time when is it if if you’re alive right now if you’re it is november 2020 we are rolling we are in wawa stores in florida if you’re there and you want to help win the war that we are engaged in at this time go to wawa in florida and you get yourself a bunch of jocko discipline go to help us defeat the enemy thank you yeah you can also get a vitamin shop if you’re not in florida you can also get it at origin maine com you can also get it you can get it on amazon straight up yep also forgot to mention jocko white tea tea bags and cans by the way again these this is supplementation right you’re on the path with or without this now you got the supplementation you got the full decked out vehicle on the path good to go you do all these things you’re off to a good start hey hey speaking of flavors by the way you mentioned smashing pumpkin yeah we have another flavor that’s been released into the wild yeah okay dave burke what’s the new flavor why don’t you tell us uh the discipline go flavor afterburner orange and this is dave burke’s [Music] signature flavor indeed it is so we this came from when you were a child you liked to drink orange soda of some kind we’re not talking about brands you have replicated that flavor that was a little bit cause because discipline glow traditionally is not syrupy sweet right it’s not sugar it doesn’t have that taste so did you is it a lighter form of one of these former orange drinks that you use yes by design it’s actually supposed to kind of make you remember what it tastes like without it tasting like you’re drinking a pile of sugar cool and that’s exactly what it does it’s a little more refreshing it is refreshing it is cleaner but dude it is it is good so there you go if you want to support well if you want to support afterburner orange if you want to support dave burke good deal too yes that’s the one just does it say good deal dave on the camp it does this is a good deal man you’re off to good stuff it’s cool that anyone can go back in time and witness the creation of the nickname good deal dave it’s pretty that’s kind of cool right very cool yes sir i think it’s kind of cool all right so yep what else oh kind of jammed through that man it was really good thank you yeah it kind of is my jam it was good one might say all right yeah additionally origin main you mentioned origin main com you can get this stuff that’s one of the places you can get get all this great stuff great stuff um you can also get jiu jitsu stuff geez rash guards all made in america by the way um see you know some hoodies and whatnot also american-made denim jeans and boots yeah for work you might want to check out the delta 68 genes yeah they are being produced as fast as we can make them right now we had a little we had a delta to make there was a there was a gap we had a little stand down during covid and we’re back up and running and and there’s a little bit of a redesign and the new version of delta 68s are just freaking awesome they’re awesome you don’t you don’t have any yet do you dave i do oh you do you got the new ones i got one pair that’s cool yes they’re sick they’re awesome all right so delta jeans you can check those out and obviously we’re training jiu-jitsu yes so there’s some jiu-jitsu stuff from them yes guards boots boots belts oh damn yeah and wallet belts wallets yes yeah i saw that i saw this and bro i don’t look at c wallets and be like oh cool wallet you know you know how you get marketed to right you know it’s like oh check out our new xyz i’m not the kind usually wallets don’t like what do you see they don’t they don’t they don’t land they don’t light your fire they don’t light my fire got it exactly right but the origin wallet let’s basically kind of lit my fire actually nonetheless it’s on there origin main com also jocko has a store it’s called jocko store and this is where you can represent you want to get off to a good start boom here you go right here this one equals freedom shirts hoodies hats some rash guards on there other stuff too get after it good it’s an important how should i say uh approach to life good the good philosophy also big deal i guess kind of an announcement in a way there’s a t-shirt club happening i’m getting one shirt every month for a little subscription situation these aren’t that charles with the subscriptions these are situations this is not a shirt these are not shirts that you can get on jocko store by the way they’re what’s called exclusive look at you to the subscription t-shirt club [Laughter] this is not for everybody or maybe it is for everybody i don’t know you gotta look but nonetheless yeah it’s on there so yeah dracostore com look if you like something subscription t-shirt club or not get something good way to support and represent while you’re on the path here’s some other things you can do subscribe to the podcast if you want to you this isn’t the only podcast by the way we’ve got a podcast called jocko unraveling with myself and daryl cooper we got the grounded podcast we got the warrior kid podcast and i know i know i owe you some warrior kid podcasts and some grounded podcasts really yeah unraveling echoes just he’s just rolling those out no he’s going hot hot on those things we throw the debrief in there too right we got the debrief podcast yeah which dave and i’ve been doing late and i’ve done a couple so that’s just that’s inside the jockle podcast feed feed sure the feed rss feed it’s true also what youtube channel video version this podcast some people like to watch video rather than just audio maybe more immersive you know we got our smart tvs projectors whatever the case may be anyway we do have a youtube channel also some excerpts on there if you need these messages in smaller uh what do you say doses not doses that’s not the correct word it seems to work smaller cut up clips anyway there’s some excerpts on there anyways doses work better than cutting up okay there you go boom there you go doses according to jocko anyway yeah it’s on there real easy to find youtube there it is boom youtube channel subscribe on that one also psychological warfare if you’re having moments of weakness two hours of sleep or otherwise if you’re just in the mood to skip a workout i got three hours of sleep last night yeah but you don’t count with the sleep thing sorry bro i said it i said what i said yeah jack you’re like yeah you need five points obviously wait what’s insomnia here’s the insomnia here’s what insomnia is like for me um i’m my mind is in a roller coaster well it’s not when i was a roller coaster but i’m going down tracks and every like every thought i have is just a right turn left turn and i’m just i it’s just my mind is just racing and i’m going this thinking that think another thing and there’s no possible way i can go to sleep there’s no possible way i can go to sleep yeah and so i was up until one around it was like it was like 108 the last time i looked at the clock and then the alarm clock went off so like you fell asleep didn’t realize you fell asleep in by the time yeah you were just somewhere after 108 a m i fell asleep and then the alarm clock went off and got up and got after i’ll get that sometimes that that’s actually a pretty good description i’ll get that sometimes but not before i go to sleep it’ll be like i’ll wake up in the quote unquote middle of the night and that’ll happen and i can’t go back sleep and it gets to the point where i’m like bro i just got like 25 more minutes i almost got up i almost got up at midnight and just went and worked out i probably should have i in fact i should have yeah but i kept thinking it’s right there like maybe over the maybe around this next corner is yeah even if it’s is gonna be a little while maybe it’s just there so i’m waiting for it waiting for it and the longer you’re trying to wait for it the harder it is to come around so yeah yeah it’s a debate for sure and then then i had a bad i had a dream the other night a bad dream had a dream the other night uh i’m in like somewhere some foreign country and something happens and we like get the call like hey we gotta go right now and so i run to get my gear i pick up my gear and my magazines are not loaded and the helicopter’s coming in to like take us to do whatever we got to do there’s guys in trouble the helicopter comes in and i’m sitting there loading mags as fast as i can and then i’m running and i see the helicopter leaving with like my guys on board and then it’s leaving and i missed it like they had to go and bro i mean i was just like feeling sick and i woke up and it took me you know whatever 10 seconds to realize that it didn’t really happen and so i had the worst feeling ever and then five seconds later i was like super thankful and then i’m bummed out again because it happened bro that makes sense i was going to like kind of tease you or whatever how you’re like but i just have that kind of dream not with that kind of stuff obviously but it was with football games like i’m like trying to make it to the football game or whatever and then i can like hear on the radio it’s like halftime you know that’s into the first quarter and i’m like not even at the game yet then it’s like you know it’s third quarter and i get there and the game is like finishing two that’s weird i never would have anticipated in one million years that you had some kind of anxiety about being late for anything all right yeah okay yeah yeah well hey mate you know maybe maybe there’s some circular like thing that kind of makes it all make sense you know i don’t know nonetheless no psychological warfare this was good okay we gotta i gotta explain what it what it is again back to the one no no no no no some people they don’t know anyway you get two hours of sleep you get eight hours sleeping 12 hours sleep i don’t know sometimes you’re in the mood or you’re not in the mood to do whether it be a workout whether it be a maintain the diet situation boom psychological warfare jackal telling you why you don’t want to do these things that support your moment of weakness boom get through it easy money chocolate’s health there you go flipside canvas dakota meyer making really awesome things to hang on your wall go to flipsidecampus com for that a bunch of a bunch of books to talk about about face hackworth leadership strategy and tactics field manual we got the code the evaluations of protocols we got discipline equals freedom field manual brand new version out people are asking what’s the difference there’s like 40 more pages 35 40 more pages of words in there weigh the warrior kid for field manual also out sitting right here on the desk this is the first batch these are like legit first to dish so you can check that book out get it for your kids get it for get it for the kids that you know to get them on the path warrior kid one two and three mikey and the dragons mikey and the dragons recently selected as a teacher’s pick so thanks to all the teachers out there that picked it oh yeah and thanks for the teachers out there that said it’s the best children’s book that they’ve ever read a lot of those teachers appreciate it and then finally extreme ownership of the dichotomy leadership the original books that i wrote with my brother leif babin also we have echelon front leadership consultancy where we solve problems through leadership we got ef online efonline com if you want to ask me a question you want to ask dave a question you want to ask late for question you want to ask any of the echelon front instructors a question go to efonline com we will be there we will be there to answer your question you don’t have to submit it through twitter and hope that i see it you can go on there and ask it so go to efonline com for that we have the muster which is a live event leadership training december 3rd and 4th if you want to come to it go to extremeownership com for details every gig we’ve done has sold out this is going to sell out too we got compressed space well not compressed space we got compressed seats in big space because of social distancing so there’s less tickets to sell so it’s going to sell out early so be advised on that go to extremeownership com for details efoverwatch com if you need leaders in your organization that have the experience the military experience and leadership that we talk about that understand the principles we talk about go to eforewatch com to find those leaders and if you want to help service members you want to help active duty you want to help retired you want to help their families gold star families then check out america’s mightywarriors org that is mark lee’s mom’s charity organization mama lee she’s out there helping our veterans and if you are into if you want to torture yourself and you want more of my weary some words or you need more of echo’s certifiable sermons of which there were plentiful today oh you can’t wait to hear just a few more of dave’s jubilant judgments then you can find us on the interwebs on twitter on instagram which according to echo charles should only be known as the gram and on facebook dave is at david r burke echo is at echo charles and i am at jocko willing and once again thanks to general bruce clark and colonel david hackworth for continuing to serve our great nation with the lessons you have passed on to us and thanks to all the military troops out there on the sea air and land that maintain vigilance at all times for our security and thanks to the police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics emts dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all the other first responders who also remain vigilant to keep us safe here at home and to everyone else out there once again from general bruce c clark quote the attack is the key to success the defense is merely a temporary expedient to conserve forces for an attack elsewhere or to prepare for an attack at a future date end quote you know what to do go out on the attack and until next time this is dave and echo and jocko out
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