Jocko Podcast 283: Taking Lessons From the Hardest Combat Imaginable.

this is jocko podcast number 283 with echo charles and me jocko willing good evening echo good evening jumping into combat lessons we’ve done some combat lessons before we’ve done volumes one two and three on this podcast i’m skipping ahead a little bit to volume seven there’s a section in here that i kind of got kind of got into these these combat lessons were written during world war ii with the explicit intention of disseminating lessons learned rapidly back to the troops to keep more guys alive and kill more enemy and you might think and i started thinking like why am i reviewing these now why am i reviewing number four why am i doing that i’ll tell you why because i’ve never heard these lessons before think about that i was in the military for 20 years and i never heard these lessons before there’s something wrong with that there’s something wrong with that these guys these are lessons written in blood in the hardest combat imaginable and they’re not getting passed on so i want to make sure i pass on these lessons and you know what obviously they’re not just for combat not just for combat you’re gonna see the translation to every situation that a human being in a leadership position can be in so combat lessons the the volumes are getting better the first one was kind of like a little bit i’m not going to say it was haphazardly put together but now you got the full cover picture you know there if you’re looking at this on youtube you’ve got the cover picture up there combat lessons combat lessons number seven rank and file in combat what they do what they are doing and how they do it the uh the intro to this thing to this book comes from i’ll just read it our armies in europe have won their victory so this is late in the war victory in europe already so now we’re just fighting in the pacific theater veterans of the campaigns of north africa and europe are now joining forces with the veterans of the pacific for the final assault against japan can you imagine having that on the horizon you’re you’re you’re thinking okay we’re going final assault on japan on the japanese empire we’re gonna kill all them because they fight to the death that’s what’s about to happen they don’t these they don’t know anything about the atomic bomb yet that’s not even an option they’ve seen the japanese fight to the death on island after island and now they’re gonna go and assault the japanese island itself the island of japan back to the book they are coming to grips with a foe quite different from the german soldier different as an individual fighting man and different in the tactics employed even the most experienced soldier of the european battlefields will have much to learn humility you imagine you get done with normandy d-day the battle the bulge and you show up in the pacific theater you got a lot to learn kid dang we must now bring to bear against the japanese all the experience we have gained in every theater the suggestions made in combat lessons are drawn from such expert experience since to be effective they must reach the soldier promptly publication is not delayed to ensure that they always represent the thoroughly digested views of the war department the great combat lesson learned from every operation is the importance of leadership our equipment our supply and above all our men are splendid aggressive and determined leadership is the priceless factor which inspires a command and upon which success all success in battle depends it is responsible for success or failure leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield by the way signed by general marshall five star general three no four no five star general churchill called general marshall the organizer of victory the organizer of victory of world war ii let’s think about that that’s a pretty good compliment coming from churchill uh this is a guy that was a platoon and a company commander in in the philippine war ended up being a secretary of state remember learning about the marshall plan no well when you were in high school at some point you learned about the marshall plan you just don’t remember it uh it was like the world war ii is the it was the recovery the rebuilding after world war ii overseas in europe that the marshall plan named after this guy he got a nobel peace prize for that by the way so a a a very capable man so kicking it into the book here leadership first section leadership too much stress cannot be placed upon the necessity for developing intelligent aggressive troop leaders in all echelons so says general omar bradley commander of the 12th army group i wanna i wanna i wanna say that again too much stress cannot be placed there’s no way you can you can stress the necessity for developing intelligent aggressive troop leaders and where in all echelons in all echelons squad leaders however to use the battlefield as a school room for the training of leaders is to sacrifice needlessly the lives of our men the habit of command and the technique of troop leading must be learned thoroughly by all leaders prior to entry in combat not only must leaders learn their own jobs thoroughly but they must also be given ample opportunity to operate in the command capacity of the next higher echelon in order to in order that qualified replacements will be available so if you’re running a business i said there’s some similarities if you’re running a business and you’re not investing in your leadership you’re wrong and throwing them out to the wolves throwing them out to the clients throw them out to a building site without any training and preparation or without any mentorship while they’re out there is the wrong move by the way that’s why echelon front actually exists that’s why we exist to help that process take place the junior leaders responsibility field leaders constantly emphasize the need for junior officers who will share the responsibilities of their superiors and take charge when emergencies arise in battle check this out here’s a note you’re young you’re you’re new to the company you’re inexperienced in some way or another way if you have the willingness to pay attention and then start taking responsibility and start taking ownership of things you will go places now look you can’t you got to be you don’t want to go overboard with it but if you see your boss has got some things that maybe you could take over for them take them over i have a question go about extreme extreme ownership and this this might be splitting hairs but in the spirit of understanding so let’s say whatever you come to me um and or whatever i’m taking ownership of a mistake that happened okay right what if i do i am like i’m not blaming you but i am defensive i am whatever i am all that but i actually do at the end of the lecture or whatever um i do wanna i do at the end of the day i do think that the mistake was my fault hundred percent and i’m going to take it upon myself to fix the mistake okay but i handled the initial lecture wrong is that still technically extreme ownership why am i lecturing you i don’t know like uh like uh you know i messed up the project okay you know you failed the project and then and i come to you and say hey echo it looks like we’re not gonna get this project done on time yeah is that right yeah yeah like or or let’s say we straight up didn’t it failed okay oh echo i see that we failed to to get this project done yeah did you get the support that you need is there anything that i should have done a better job of to make sure you had what you needed to get this thing done because this is a big letdown for the client yeah and this isn’t the kind of reputation we’re looking to have where did i let you down okay so that’s you taking ownership right extreme you know and you’re like okay so what if instead of that good lecture you were like hey you messed up and you you know like you did this and you said yeah you you failed this project that’s that’s pathetic i’m thinking about maybe demoting you yeah yeah and then let’s say okay after you lecture me you think in your head you know what this is my fault this actually is my fault and i’m going to do everything i can to to correct this you do after you lecture me wrong with you but then i realize i’m wrong yes and then i say you know what there’s some things i could have probably no no you don’t say that part okay you don’t say nothing to me you just kind of at you basically the whole thing you learned the lesson you get you failed the first part but it’s like you know parts of them you fail the first one but you succeed in the second one okay but then i but then i opt not to take ownership for some reason with your verbal uh you can see where you can see where this is what’s interesting about these questions that you’re trying to formulate is how quickly they dissipate when the person legitimately takes ownership right all like when i said okay so i say to you hey echo where did i not support you all of a sudden you didn’t even have an argument you didn’t have a question anymore it was gone so you had to get me to say things wrong to you yes yes and then and then you want me to like switch halfway because i’m just a crazy person right so that’s where we’re at right now we’re just fine okay so what’s the hypothetical point that we’re trying to get at uh well i guess if i if i learned anything from you right now and in the past it is that you do if you’re gonna take ownership extremely if you’re gonna demonstrate that practice that there’s two parts of it and that’s sort of it there’s two parts of it you the way you come at the person or whatever you let them know that it’s your fault kind of thing and then the second part is you for real it is your fault in your mind it is it is your responsibility to take action to fix those problems not the kind of so your question is when i come at you and say you failed this project you go well it was a big project so you get defensive at first right yes because you take it the wrong way sure and you don’t remember to take ownership for another two minutes the whole thing the whole time you forget to take ownership and then two minutes you know what you do you go you know what you know what boss i’m getting defensive because my ego is getting in the way and this is actually my fault and all these excuses that i’m making right now make no sense whatsoever here’s here’s the mistakes i made here’s the things i’m going to do to fix it i will not let this happen again yeah problem solved yeah so without that second recovery part i’m talking about the interaction between the two people that alone not that subsequent actions that you’re going to take to solve the problem i’m not talking about that because you’re going to do that anyway yeah but that second verbal part interaction part without that that technically does not fit does not fulfill the formula of extreme ownership what do you mean without that second part which second part the part where you’re where you explain to the person that you have the interaction with like oh that was my fault and my ego’s getting in the way like not that part straight up you left the meeting like straight up like we got scolded okay whatever then and then you say this wasn’t my fault and you leave yeah yeah you have to take ownership of that that’s the point of your extreme ownership but in your mind you’re like wait it is my fault yeah then you go back and then you say hey this is that’s what i’m saying okay so you do that that interaction is part of the yes yes yes it is you have to i mean otherwise you’re just making excuses and blaming other people and i don’t trust you by the way yeah i’m like oh echo screwed this up but he doesn’t even realize that he screws up he thinks it’s everyone else’s fault he doesn’t take ownership cool i’ve never given him another project again yeah whereas you come back and you say you know what boss this is this is completely my fault and then i let my ego get in the way and i got mad yeah my temper and my ego i will not let that happen again boom problem solved i understand check all right moving on comments major general john p lucas commander of six core prior to battle we must develop the feeling of responsibility in junior officers and non-commissioned officers develop the feeling of responsibility we want to give them ownership i suggest doing this during field exercises by suddenly and and unexpectedly declaring the commander a casualty and placing the second in command in charge something we did all the time in seal training oh got a good platoon commander he’s doing a great job cool you’re down oh platoon chief’s doing a super job cool you’re down the commanding officer of the 119th infantry in germany makes this statement in battle nothing is more important than having leaders who will share their commander’s responsibility for the accomplishment of the mission again if you’re a junior person out there if you’re joining an organization or you’re a mid-level manager if you can be a person that starts to take ownership of things and starts to take pressure and jobs and tasks and responsibilities off your boss’s plate they are going to love you nothing more important he says nothing more important than having leaders that will take their share of the commander’s responsibility one of the most difficult tasks for the junior leader is getting the men to move forward under fire issuing the orders is easy but seeing that the orders are carried out may call for every ounce of energy and initiative the officer or nco possesses issuing the orders is easy that’s the easy part i think patton said ten percent of the job is issuing orders ninety percent is getting them done responsible leadership in actions the next section caps captain sauder was at his command post cp when a soldier came in to report that two wiremen had been wounded by a enemy sniper about 500 yards away he immediately took four men and set out to assist the wounded men before arriving at their goal the captain and his men observed a group of wire men pinned down in an open field by enemy machine gun fire captain sauder spotted the enemy machine gun and ordered his men to covered positions but himself took an exposed position from which he could fire upon the machine gun he opened fire suddenly and killed six of the enemy crew making it possible for the wounded men to be evacuated in safety and for the wire men to continue their work by that time captain sauder had observed more serious trouble in the vicinity an enemy armored car was parked beside a building some distance away the captain knew that part of another advancing regiment was in the sector covered by the enemy vehicle he immediately sent back for a 50-caliber machine gun at the command post and for two tanks to cover the oncoming regiment during its approach while waiting for these reinforcements he collected a few of his men and resumed fire on the enemy with the result that many were forced to flee and 18 enemy were wounded while this was going on captain souter was informed that all officers of one company with the approaching regiment had become casualties he immediately took charge and reorganized the company so at the when the other officers came up the unit was well dispersed and under control he then gave first aid to the wounded officer officers and saw that they were evacuated to a safer location for further care the tanks arrived in time to assist the other regiment’s assault on the enemy positions and the objective was successfully taken had it not been for captain sauder’s timely and decisive actions casualties among our men would have been extremely heavy and the attainment of the objective questionable for his contribution in this emergency captain sauder was awarded the silver star initiative taking charge i love this part where he got wounded there’s a company coming forward and they’re wounded officers so you disperse your company and you prepare to receive those guys and you’ll be able to put them to work immediately responsible leader leadership as the soldier sees it another fine example of responsible and inspiring leadership is given in the following account of the part played by lieutenant william e everett 101st infantry 36th division in action in italy this account was written by three of the enlisted men who served under him during that action our company led the attack on a hill and took it the enemy counter-attacked laying down heavy artillery mortar and machine gun fire that knocked out a large number of our men and every officer except lieutenant everett damn lieutenant everett took over the difficult and dangerous job of keeping the company under control without any communications whatever he had become so short of men that even the runners had to stay on the line fighting hard to help hold the ground we had won at the time lieutenant everett took charge the enemy were coming up three sides of the hill and our men were in trouble the lieutenant ordered us to open fire with everything we had while he took an exposed position on the side of the hill and called fire orders to our mortar our mortar finally stopped the advancing enemy he then located an enemy mortar that had been giving us trouble all day and adjusted our mortar on it knocking it out with a direct hit on the third round he personally eliminated two enemy snipers who had wounded several of our men it was largely through his daring and determination that we were able to beat off the strong enemy counter-attacks for three days and four nights he risked his life by going from one platoon to another under enemy machine gun fire keeping the men under control and helping them meet each problem as it came at times he himself helped carry the wounded to safer places the lieutenant was sick during all this fighting yet he never thought of his own discomfort but stuck by the men who might have lost out if it had not been for his leadership leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield next section discipline the first function of leadership you know i’m happy and smiling when i see that in the frequent discussions of battlefield leadership we are often prone to overlook the first function of leadership the development of unit and individual discipline the battle is the payoff said lieutenant colonel ralph ingersoll and it is exactly that the payoff on the leadership which welded individuals into a smoothly functioning team discipline applies to all captain jack gary company commander of the 11th infantry writes discipline is sometimes the determining factor between winning and losing i once listened to a wounded officer back from fighting in africa who said forget all the formalities in the field forget the officer and nco distinctions in the field keep all the eight balls they will fight like hell and i tried to i looked up this term eight balls and i i assume it means like uh um like a rebel type guy the reason i assume that is because the next sentence says so that that was the guy quoting someone from africa he says i do not believe he had seen very much action or he would not have made such a statement i had a few quote eight balls who did fight like hell but i have also had a lot of men who never caused me trouble who were quiet confident well disciplined and these men fought much better so you know you get that uh in case of war break glass yeah thing where look this guy’s a little rough around the edges right yeah it seemed like when he was like i i also had guys who were quite calm disciplined or whatever it just seemed like this eight ball phenomenon was the opposite of that yeah they’re like the troublemakers yeah they’re a little bit a little bit wild now look we gotta have those guys too we’re gonna need those guys and they are they do have it they can be awesome for sure because you gotta have a little bit of that i mean let’s face it if you’re joining the military if you’re joining the military to go into combat arms or you’re joining the military to go into special operations you’re going in that you want to do something that’s you basically want to do things that are not legal in the world like you’re going to kill people you’re going to blow things up you’re going to plant bombs that’s what you’re going through yeah you can’t really do that anywhere else yes that’s that’s you you know you’re a kid and you’re like what do i want to do when i grow up doctor yeah lawyer yeah banker yeah blow things up and kill people that sounds like a good one right that’s not normal i understand yes fully i had a conversation with a guy the other day and he was like telling me that um he was having a conversation with a guy that was a ceiling he’s like you know there’s something that made me nervous because when this guy was a young seal he said you know what i was asking him hey you know you you you think you’re ready to kill people and you know you’re you’re gonna deploy this was kind of as iraq was going on and this was like a younger seal that was gonna be heading to iraq and the young seal was like oh yeah i’m ready i want to kill people and he’s you know the guy says you know it just seemed a little bit it seems like it shouldn’t be like that and i was like it’s like that bro you ask you know a front line infantry grunt whatever well i can’t i can’t speak for all them you talk to most a vast majority of seals and you say hey if the enemy presents themselves an opportunity if the enemy if there’s an opportunity for you to kill the enemy will you be is happy the right word will you be will you hesitate in the moment of truth they’ll be like one negative they’ll be stoked so that’s the reality so there’s a little eight ball yeah you know let’s face it he’s down for the cost yeah now that’s that’s the thing is the very good soldier that you want has that capability but has the discipline to keep it under control the whole uh the little clip you made of jordan peterson and i talking about the dang the the good man is a dangerous man who has their their their danger and their aggression under control under through discipline voluntary under voluntary control that’s what we’re looking for that’s what we’re looking for yeah actually that’s what we’re looking for next section discipline is based upon confidence only a few hours later after he had lost both legs in combat lieutenant tichenor who had acted as a platoon leader in 5th division 12th army group made this comment to a military observer our officers have to be real leaders discipline in combat depends largely upon the men’s knowing that the officer in charge of them knows his business and is not reluctant reluctant to take necessary risks a battalion commander of the sixth armored division in france makes a similar combat comment unless the officer or nco knows his job completely the men have no faith in him unless the men have faith in their leaders their battle discipline will be poor so when they’re talking about discipline there they’re like are you is the team going to do what they need to do when they get when they get the orders to do it and if they have faith in the leader they’ll do it and if they don’t guess what which is interesting because you think well you know it’s the military it’s the military and if they get ordered do something no that’s what they’re talking about here that’s what they’re talking about it doesn’t work like that doesn’t work like that anywhere just because i bark and order at you and i have rank over you doesn’t mean you’re going to do it especially if it’s going to get you killed there’s a comment here and in these books they just they the sort of the authority chimes in the author or whoever the author is the authors chime in and they just write comment and it says comment a leader who has not gained the respect respect and confidence of his men during training has two strikes again when he against him when he enters combat the element of doubt in the minds of his men may be the difference between success and failure of a mission gaining respect and confidence of your men how do you do that do that by barking at him no you do that by yelling at them no you do that by listening you do that by treating them with respect here is a definition of discipline says colonel e l munson signal core true discipline is voluntary it is based on knowledge region a sense of duty and idealism a good leader develops in his men a cheerful and willing obedience that wants to respond that wants to carry out his orders this kind of discipline will in the end bring combat results as no other kind possibly can we could probably stop right here because everyone thinks when the military talks about discipline they’re talking about the way if you can beat your people into submission then you’re going to be good to go no that’s not the kind of discipline we’re talking about cheerful willing obedience that’s a totally different thing willing obedience people want to carry out the orders totally different you don’t really think of discipline associated with cheerful yeah the context that they’re using is military discipline is like hey do the does the team respond and execute what they’re told to do with discipline right so in the context of that we there’s multiple ways to achieve that one of them is by beating people that you’re going to do this and you beat them and they’re afraid and they’re doing it out of fear the other way is they’re doing it because they understand because they’re part of it the result is the result is similar but what this guy is saying is that the one that will bring comrade results like no other kind is the kind where it’s a positive discipline yeah when they’re saying it’s a self-imposed discipline we’re doing this because we want to yeah not because someone’s barking at us this little section here it’s uh replacement instruction the wrong kind so in in in world war ii you had guys get wounded guys getting killed and there was replacements coming in and so this happens in inside all organizations as organizations grow you got to bring in new people and as new people come in what happens to them replacement orientation right this is like new hires how do you treat your new hires here’s some things that they did it’s called the wrong kind a lieutenant comments on his ominous introduction to frontline existence on my way to the front as an officer replacement i met several individuals who had come back from the front line invariably they recounted to me their hair-raising experiences their outfits had been wiped out or pinned down for days officers didn’t have a dog’s chance of survival etc one platoon sergeant went statistical on me he said his platoon had lost 16 officers in one two week period i expected confidently that i would be blown to bits within 15 minutes after my arrival to the front went statistical yeah that’s when you know they’re going hard yeah uh later experience has shown me that enlisted men who come in as replacements are subjected to similar morale breaking tales i’ve tried to get my old men to give the new replacement a break by being careful not to exaggerate their battle experiences or in any way distort the picture of frontline existence give the new men a common sense introduction to the combat zone and there will be fewer men going on sick call before an attack non-comms and privates of company k 11th infantry draw attention to the same problem our replacements come to us filled with tenseness and dread caused by stories they have heard in the rear special instructors from the front should be used at replacement centers to talk to the new men to talk the new men out of this unnecessary panic of course the soundest remedy is to have the replacements occupy a defensive position for a time but even then the kind of treatment they are given upon arrival at the front makes a big difference in the amount of good they will do to their new outfit so how are we treating people that show up at your company and you can have such a huge influence if you do a good job bringing someone on board in a squared away manner don’t screw it up comment company commanders and platoon leaders should meet orient and indoctrinate all replacements so that they gain an authentic picture of current battle conditions this should be done even though battle indoctrination has been started in replacement centers knowing what to expect even when even when the expected is bad is better than not knowing and and consequently imagining the worst that’s what’s going to happen we’re gonna freak out and and part of this is i think unintentional when people tell stories right if you’re to tell me let’s say you were in a jiu jitsu tournament and you wanted to tell me about something that happened that happened to you maybe you got caught in a guillotine and look you were connecting and it was bad right and you got out of it but it was a like crazy when you when you want to tell me that you want to make me feel how you felt and one of the ways you can kind of get closer is by making a little exaggeration bro i started seeing i started the wall started coming in bro and it might not necessarily i understand what you’re doing i understand why you’re doing it but you weren’t really going to get choked out you were just in a good guillotine but it wasn’t good enough because obviously you got out so people can exaggerate for the purpose of of of giving the feelings that they had you know this mortar like i’ve been martyred before mortar hits mortar hits i don’t know i don’t know what the closest mortar to me ever was but maybe let’s call it 20 yards or something like that yeah so that’s close bro that rocks your world you’re like damn and if i’m just telling you this bro i got mortared i want you to feel like so i might be stupid practically right on top of me it’s 20 yards away bro yeah yeah you’re right and if you don’t kind of take the you know a lot of times we’ll take that personal you know like brian don’t don’t lie don’t lie to me and exaggerate like that you know like be accurate kind of thing but you can’t when you really think about it it makes sense because if you’re like unless you’re some if you got mortared like a thousand times you know when it’s 20 yards you know oh you don’t have to exaggerate to me because i know but you know most people i can’t yeah if i was talking to someone else i’d be like oh bro you’ve been more than for hell yeah oh yeah i was over here oh yeah man this one landed close it was like 20 yards away you’d be like damn i don’t need to explain it to you but if you don’t know yeah exactly right and i start making you know i start making it seem like a little bit well basically you want them to understand how you might exactly but because and they don’t they don’t have the capability to understand what you felt because they weren’t there you know something you can imagine like oh yeah if i was there i’d do this like you have a misrepresentation of how it would actually feel in the situation that’s natural exactly right but when you’re in the situation yeah you can tell me i’ve never been murdered before i know surprising but i haven’t if you were like hey yeah we got mortared and it was crazy it was 20 yards away i’d be like i know how 20 i know how far 20 that’s not that close yeah that’s like that’d be all right oh yeah whatever that’s like half of a 40-yard dash like bro that’s kind of far yeah that’s not scary at all but you know given what you explained it it’s not like that bro you in that situation you’re you think you’re gonna die or whatever you know um but yeah so that’s a natural thing if you’re not in the situation you can’t feel it you never can so let’s put a little slice on top of us bro it’s basically get the standard of understanding up to where it needs to be for me to convey the story you know that’s what we got to watch out for so be careful with that then it goes into the right kind of orientation poor orientation of replacements may seriously affect the fighting ability and survival chances of men themselves and may also endanger the unit with whom they first serve for these reasons leaders of platoons squads and companies should find out exactly what orientation and training have been given the men and should provide essential orientation on the spot insofar as practicable before sending them into combat if a divisional training plan similar to that described below is in operation the problem of inducting new members new men into smaller units is much simplified and lower unit orientation can be modified accordingly and then there’s an effective an effective training system described our division has received thousands of replacements since at first since its first combat experience in normandy more than 90 percent of these replacements have been infantry many of the replacements came into the division lacking confidence in their ability and paralyzed by the apprehension and engendered by loose talk before and upon their arrival this exact guys are scared shitless some time ago we started a course of instruction for our replacements it lasts two and a half days and is conducted by battle experienced personnel particular emphasis is placed upon how to live in a foxhole development of an aggressive attitude the use of fragmentation grenade anti-tank grenade and bazooka throughout the course these men are trained in groups of 12 they are later assigned to organizations by these same groups you know what else you got to tell people about is it closes out here by saying we we found that this course of instruction gives replacements much greater self-confidence it debunks the notions that they have picked up in the rear the course has definitely improved not only the morale but also the fighting ability of our replacements who expect to continue the plan for all replacements to come to the division you know what else you gotta tell people like oh you’re gonna be nervous um yeah but it’s okay you’re gonna be nervous it’s no big deal everyone’s nervous no big deal it’s fine that helps a lot because i’ve seen this with fighters they get nervous and they don’t know what nervous feel like even really experienced athletes that might have wrestled or they might have you know boxed or they might have done smokers or they might even have a decent mma record but now they’re going in the ufc and they get nervous for the first time and they don’t know what that they don’t know that feeling and all of a sudden they think it’s bad yeah something’s wrong and you got to say hey listen oh you’re feeling a little like queasy right now feeling some butterflies that’s good that’s your body putting your blood into your muscles instead of to your stomach it’s all good common failings says a successful third army rifle company commander the following failings are common among replacements they must be strictly and promptly eliminated if excessive casualties are to be avoided and combat efficiency obtained lack of ordinary discipline saying yeah instead of saying yes sir jumping at the sound of every outgoing or incoming artillery shell [Music] we acted like we were like straight up nom like that’s in ramadi like when the guys would show up and sometimes there’d be outgoing artillery from camp ramadi yeah and you’d see guys freaking out it’s outgoing we’d like we’re all just hardcore actually that’s so much fun with that i was gonna ask like is that a thing because like you know when you first encounter gunfire even if it’s like you know the guy next year or whatever shooting outgoing you know as we say um it can startle you if you don’t hear that all the time yeah it’s so loud so i’ll be like this at the gun range bear with me i know so at the gun range you know when you first when you first go in you start hearing the the boom and then you know you got a little jump you know but after a while you go a few times or whatever it’s like you don’t jump at all but then let’s say you take your friend if it hits his first time or something like that first time long time whatever and you see him jump and then is that a thing like ah you jump you’re kind of like you know you’re gonna get startled i mean you’ll get startled but you do get used to it yeah fully but what i’m saying is let’s say me and you go to the gun range somewhere or you know coronado whatever and like boom you know shots fired whatever like downrange or whatever and i’d like jump are you going to tease me is that the culture you know kind of like like why are you jumping for it you know kind of thing you’re asking if i’m going to tease you yeah the answer is yes that’s kind of a universal thing right good yeah yeah um but but you do get used to it but still like a startling noise but you get you get used to i mean we shoot a ton in the seal teams oh yeah just like so much yeah it makes sense and again yeah i you know i haven’t shot in a ton in the seal teams but when i go to the the range it’s the same thing on a different scale where yeah when you first go in you’re like boom or when like you’re about to shoot and hear the guy next you shoot you’re like oh [ __ ] you know did my gun go off or whatever it’s like so i hear that so if you don’t hear that question i heard mike this is not very reassuring bro you know i just hear and then but then after a while it does it doesn’t affect you i figure that’s natural regardless of the environment you know did did jason gardner tell that story on the podcast where the guy they were doing a debrief they’re doing a debrief so jason garner’s like at team 5 and they’re doing a debrief after like a cqc killhouse run or something and this young officer standing there during the debrief and he just cracks off around like during the debrief supposed to be cleared and safe he cracks off around and goes between two of the guys they’re standing in a circle he cracks off around yeah and the dude had like an out of body experience and he looks up at the group and he says he was decocking him he says he was decocking it as if it wasn’t him that’s one of my favorite stories from gardner dude because that tells you how people get crazy they do something and they think that it wasn’t even them just make making excuse for a person that is someone else he was decocking it so there you go jumping at the sound of every outgoing or incoming artillery shell uh here’s another good one stoner was stoner’s uh task unit was going through cqc training and this guy threw a crash into a room and it like he threw a crash into the room and then went in the room and then like backed out because he was scared to crash because it’s something weird like that where the guy was basically scared of the crash and so stoner was watching and so storm’s like they get done with the run and someone’s like hey come with me and and stoner got like seven crashes in his pocket and he went into like a small closet and he goes and he starts talking the guy all normal and like like hey you know i just want to talk and as he’s pulling the crash out just undoes it and pulls pulls the pin and just drops it at their feet and continues talking totally normal just like oh man he does that seven times and then at the end of whatever he was saying to me goes hey by the way don’t be scared of crashes they’re not gonna hurt you wait so are they what do you mean okay they can’t hurt you got it but a crash just goes bang i mean what are you holding your hand if you hold your hand it could hurt you yeah yeah so it doesn’t emit anything yeah it doesn’t have anything it’s like a big firecracker basically yeah i mean look you don’t want to put a firecracker next to your hand or next to your eye right right but they’re not going to hurt you yeah i mean you crash each other all the time so i always thought that was a good lesson learned from stoner to that dude probably not great for his hearing but oh well unwillingness to use the rifle many have been told never to fire without direct orders for fear of revealing positions lack of pride in self organization or work poor physical condition a tendency to bunch together when in danger i wrote about that in leadership strategy and tactics not just from a battlefield but also from a mental status we all just want to like crowd each other we get we get we feel comfort being next to each other don’t freezing under fire slaving slovenliness in care of equipment lack of skill with the rifle or other infantry weapons fear of the night ignorance of squad formations ignorance of field sanitation and of personal hygiene in combat comment replacements who exhibit these deficiencies usually have usually not had the advantage of such training system as described above so think about how you’re indoctrinating your people you can probably do a better job of it next section is about river crossings it goes by this whole this is these are tactical things trying to help people win this war these are tactical things about literally how to cross rivers very cool to read i’m not going to cover it right now it covers assault bolt handling and and water safety and foot bridges and cable bridges and engineer bridges it just goes on all these detailed sections then it goes into this story about roger young and it’s got a song that’s got a song with musical notes that you can sing i’m going to read you the the lyrics the first part of it oh they’ve got no time for glory in the infantry oh they’ve got no use for praises loudly sung but in every soldier’s heart in all the infantry shines the name shines the name of roger young roger young who fought and died for the men he marched among so this story is about a medal of honor recipient and it tells a bit of the story here that that song is about this medal of honor recipient roger young on july 31st 1943 the infantry company of which private young was a member was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line in order to adjust the battalion’s position for the night at this time private young’s platoon was engaged with the enemy in dense jungle where observation was limited the platoon was suddenly pinned down by intense fire from a japanese machine gun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away the initial burst wounded private young as the platoon started to obey the order to withdraw private young started creeping toward the emplacement despite a second wound he continued his heroic advance attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire when close to his objective he began throwing hand grenades and while doing so he was hit again and killed private young’s bold action in closing with this japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire permitted his platoon to disengage itself without loss and was responsible for several enemy casualties like i said roger young was he received the medal of honor for this action and i i looked up i looked up roger young is an interesting story he was from a small town up in ohio to a place called tiffin ohio and sometime during high school he was a really good athlete he was small but he’s a really good athlete and sometime in high school i think he was playing either basketball or football he got some weird injury some weird head injury that left him almost completely deaf and blind like he could see but not really well he could hear but not really well and he was worried about being able to get into the regular army so he joined the national guard and he was like a really good soldier despite the fact that he couldn’t see very well and he couldn’t hear very well and before this this assault in new jers new georgia and this island in new georgia which is in the solomon islands before this assault he had been advanced in rank and he went to his leadership and requested a demotion because he felt like he was putting his guys at risk because he couldn’t see well enough and he couldn’t hear well enough and at first they thought he’s just trying to get out of the you know he’s just trying to not do this do this assault and he said no i’m doing the assault i’m doing the assault but i shouldn’t be in charge of anyone because i can barely see and i can barely hear and they said okay roger that they demoted him they so he wasn’t in charge of a squad anymore and he just became a rifleman went out there and saved his guys next section is called patrol pointers commanders and staffs as well as troops should be made to realize the amount of detail essential to proper preparation of a patrol for each mission emphasize the fact that the patrol leader must be given the means to and time to accomplish his mission how often do we actually think about what we’re tasking people with you got to realize what you’re tasking people with what time it’s going to take how much time they need to prepare for contact with the main force leaders of flank and security or security patrols should be impressed with the importance of maintaining contact with the main force at all times loss of contact has often proved disastrous so you have to maintain communications the opposite extreme we’ve got a little dichotomy going here the opposite extreme however can also have serious results one patrol leader overzealous about maintaining contact caused the attack to involve the main body and develop into a major action for which the latter was not prepared so this guy kept everyone so close that by the time they did the assault the main body got caught up in the assault as well so there’s a dichotomy you gotta balance patrol leadership strictest discipline must be maintained during a patrol operation rigid control should be exercised to eliminate unnecessary noise talking sneezing and most important ill-advised firing all movement must be regulated to take full advantage of conditions such as rainstorms temporary obscuring of the moon by clouds etc so this is what we got to remember when we say strictest discipline has to be maintained and control if you and i are on a patrol and you’re in the back of the patrol and i’m the you’re the rear security and i’m the pl i’m the patrol leader and i’m number two so there’s 14 18 22 guys between us how do i control what you’re gonna do i can’t and if you see something that makes you nervous you can start shooting you know you might start making a call you might be doing dumb things why is that because you’re dumb no it’s because i’m a bad leader because i didn’t explain to you what the parameters were of what we were doing i didn’t explain to you why we were doing what we were doing i didn’t explain to you the dangers of shooting your rifle if you weren’t sure of what was happening so when they say control don’t think of it like oh i’ve got to sit there and tell everyone exactly what to do you’re going to really lose then what you have to do is you have to utilize powerful and and and well executed decentralized command that’s what control is back to the book one patrol had almost completed its mission when its presence and location were revealed to the enemy through an unguarded movement by one of the members this betrayal nullified the entire effort of that particular patrol patience is of the utmost importance in patrolling that’s true the success or failure of a patrol depends in the final analysis upon the qualities of leadership possessed by the patrol leader in most cases the commanders have selected their best officers and ncos to perform this duty leadership is what makes a patrol successful leadership organizing professional patrols this is an interesting combat concept some commanders have gone so far as to organize permanent patrol groups whose principal function is to furnish personnel for battle missions the officers selected for these groups are volunteers the most aggressive tough and rugged officers in the unit they are permitted to select from the unit men who possess the same qualities after a period of intensive training and scouting patrolling battle drill and physical hardening the patrol group is attached to the unit headquarters from which it receives its mission so he’s talking look you can make a little element that’s made of your best guys fatigue and strain endured by battle patrols make it impracticable to assign them more than one major mission every two or three days upon completion of a mission the men should be moved to a rear location fed rested and prepared for the next what i what i say is interesting about this is what do you have in your company that’s a duty or a mission or a task that maybe it’s such of such importance that you put together a little hit team and they get good at it and they do it all the time and you give them the support you give them the training that’s a very sensible thing to think about now it doesn’t mean you have to exclude everybody else because i can have a hit team of four people that do uh presentations to clients it doesn’t mean i i send two other guys you know occasionally i throw this guy i throw this guy so other people learn and maybe they spend some time in the hit team but it’s an interesting concept and a good one to make someone a professional at that particular part of the duty i mean you’re a football player that’s like what football is right special teams essentially right yeah yeah i mean it didn’t used to be that way used to be like hey we’re gonna play football everybody’s playing yeah we’re just playing football yeah now it’s like only going out with this place happening that’s an interesting way to look at it yeah only when this place happens yeah i mean there’s some people that only play one play yeah kicker kicker kicker a wedge breaker something well that can be kind of versatile um yeah you’re right specialty brother was this guy actually he was a wide receiver but what the heck was his name he played at uh trade he and he was just well he was a wide receiver for sure and he did some things or whatever but it was marginal compared to what his specialty was was blocking field goals and punts he was on the outside because he could run real fast we have the instinct he was just so yeah the instinct and his speed he was the first guy in the team so the way he could just like guinness rock dennis rodman rebounding yeah you know dennis rodman is right yeah but i mean it’s the scenario is a little bit different because it’s it’s not like they’re like hey we need to call the rebounder you know james rodman i was just playing you see him saying but this guy hey they’re about to kick a field goal hey freaking what the heck was the matt oh man they’re gonna be mad at me foreign instincts to get that hand on the ball speed instincts you know what’s weird about this is he must have been really good to actually be identified as that guy yep he totally was he was famous for that so it was like that the team was like kind of known for that like hey buckle up when we kick field goals or punts like this guy is coming so there was time they got to the point where they would stack that side wherever he was which is dangerous to do because you open up the other side for other guys but bro it’s that important that’s so good that’s how good this specialized um skill he had developed you know there’s something to be said about this concept and specializing and focusing on something um i was watching the thing about wayne gretzky and when he was like he would sit there and watch hockey games as a kid and while he was watching the hockey game he would trace the puck like with a pen on the on the on like a piece of paper like he’d draw a hockey rink and then he would sit there and trace where the puck went where to go the whole time and then when the game was over three periods later he would look at the where his marks were on this piece of paper and start to think that’s where the puck is this is where the puck is most of the time this is where i need to be yeah and same with dennis rodman he would know where different shooters on his team would kind of spin they put on the ball and he’d be able to assess where that ball was going to go where’s the highest chance of that happening that’s what he focused on so if you can do that with a team and you can get a team focused on a particular item they’re going to excel at it it’s a good concept and the comment here says the presence of a professional patrol group in a unit should not be considered a complete solution to the patrolling problem nor should it operate to curtail the training of individual riflemen in scouting and patrolling right this doesn’t mean you got rodman so now no one else needs to work on the rebounding the professional group should be used for difficult or special missions while norming normal patrolling continues as well now this section that i’m about to read this is kind of this is one of the ones where when i read these for the first time i was like this one’s kind of it’s a good debrief because it’s a failure and they actually debrief a mission here this section is called how not to patrol and it’s got notes in it a sixth army report includes this account of an unsuccessful patrol action in new guinea though some members of the patrol exhibited splendid courage and initiative the mission was not accomplished and casualties were high the negative results of this patrol action were due in large part to several violations of basic patrol principles as pointed out below a map of the area is shown on the opposite page so the terrain that they’re dealing with there’s a section on terrain the coastal flat northwest river there’s a river and the way the river is broken out uh the river is covered with kunai grass two to five feet hot feet high interspersed with wooded areas traveling is difficult and exhausting trees in the wooded areas are not close together but the underbrush is dense and visibility limited so you already know this is freaking horrible this is hard terrain to get through a track paralleling the beach is about eight feet wide and clear of underbrush along the beach is a four to eight foot embankment suitable for cover against small arms fire from inland the width of the river varies from 15 feet in some places to 35 feet in others its current is swift the stream bread is rocky and relatively shallow except for the main channel which at the time of this patrol action was more than six feet deep as a result of recent rains so the way this is set up there’s there’s like this they’re on an island they got the ocean it’s a beach there’s an outpost that’s to the south end outpost a and then there’s a river mouth and this patrol goes across the river to enemy territory and they’ve got these various locations a is the outpost and across the river you got this coconut plantation you’ve got a perimeter that gets set up and you’ve got a little village up there and they’ve got all these routes that go in and out route k they take in route l one element takes out route and another element takes out so there’s a lot going on in this in this patrol and i don’t want to get too wrapped around trying to explain like exactly what happened without the visuals but the patrol consisted of a rifle platoon reinforced by 260 millimeter motor squads one intelligence man a radio operator and aid man second lieutenant why the platoon leader was in command first lieutenant x from wise company was attached to the patrol as observer and coordinator comment the higher commander keeps the accomplishment of the mission in mind when he selects the patrol leader the more important the mission the more careful his selection must be a good leader should have judgment initiative courage endurance and be a highly skilled leader the attachment of lieutenant x as coordinator not only divided responsibility but also indicated a doubt in the commander’s of mind as to wise ability to lead the patrol so you’ve got you’ve got this second lieutenant that’s going out there in command but you put a first lieutenant with him it it it doesn’t make any sense and that’s what they’re that’s what their comment is you’re kind of you’re kind of throwing two people if you if you don’t trust one guy to run the mission don’t don’t do it it’s just a rifle platoon why are you sending two officers out there do you not have confidence in one of them and if that’s the case why are you sending them out there important thing to think about and what does it do to the minds of the troops hey we here oh well there’s the boss cool oh wait now we got another boss wait a second why are we getting two bosses um the mission the mission of the patrol is across the river in vicinity of the battalion outpost reconnor to the coastal area um south of this village and destroy any enemy found right so there you go but i’m going to read that again the mission of the patrol is to cross the river in the vicinity of the battalion outpost do reconnaissance of the coastal area and destroy enemy enemy found and it says here comment the mission assigned by the higher commander to the patrol leader must be specific and unmistakable indefinite missions invite confusion casualties and failures one patrol cannot be expected to to execute efficiently a number of missions and by the way they’re quoting field manuals from this that’s fm 2175 reconnaissance patrols are used primarily to secure information maintain contact with the enemy or observe terrain they avoid unnecessary combat and accomplish their mission by stealth reconnaissance patrols engage in firefights only when necessary to accomplish their mission or to protect themselves so you see the dichotomy here we want you to do a reconnaissance but we want you to destroy any enemy that you find that’s two different things that’s saying i want you to fight someone and run away from them at the same time a combat patrol executes missions which they which may require fighting to accomplish or to help accomplish every combat patrol secures information as a secondary mission then here’s the comment this patrol has been given two primary missions reconnaissance and combat without any indication as to which has priority prioritize and execute we need to know what the priority is the directive to destroy any enemy found in the area if taken as a primary mission will preclude successful will proclude successful operation as a reconnaissance patrol the mission should have been either combat with reconnaissance as a secondary mission or reconnaissance alone in which case the patrol would engage in combat only to the extent necessary to complete its reconnaissance mission so think about that when you’re assigning someone a mission make sure they understand what the damn mission is and don’t assign them to missions that are opposed to each other and when you do assign people two or three missions or tasks or projects make sure they know what the priority mission is what the priority project is the patrol departed out of the outpost to 1015 leaving a 160 millimeter motor squad to furnish fire support a rope secured on both banks were used to help put the patrol weight across the stream by 11 15 personnel and equipment had crossed and we’re waiting for scheduled artillery concentration before moving forward at 11 30 80 rounds of 105 was fired after completion of the artillery fire the patrol recon ordered along the route to the beach except for the killing of three japs by the rear point no contact was made and the trip was uneventful okay at 1405 the patrol arrived at sea which is they they basically patrol from the outpost which is on the beach inland a little bit and to the north and then they get to the beach up north and they set up a perimeter that’s the point c that they’re talking about for purposes of command and control the patrol was divided into three sections consisting respectively of second lieutenant y and ten men the platoon sergeant and thirteen men and first lieutenant x and twenty men so now we’re dividing and the comment is actually command and control were not improved by this organization as was demonstrated later lieutenant y in addition to commanding the patrol was also commanding one of the sections lieutenant x as a loot as a section leader was now under the command of his junior lieutenant so have you ever heard me say you probably have if you want to be in charge of everything you want to be in charge of nothing so when you’re supposed to be in charge of patrol and then you take charge of a section you’re not going to be able to control everything you’re going to be focused on the squad or the section that you’re leading so that’s why you have subordinate leadership so they can look down and in and run that little element and you can look up and out and see what the whole team is doing together and you can mutually support each other and cover and move for each other at this time radio communications with the battalion commander at outpost was established however radio soon went out did not function thereafter contact the first contact with the enemy came shortly after the reorganization had been completed about 20 japs with armed armed with automatic weapons attacked the perimeter from the southwest apparently this group had followed the trail made by the patrol in the brief ensuing skirmish ten emmy were killed and the remainder dispersed okay they do okay through that one patrol then moved southeast along the coastal track toward coconut grove at b so now they were far up north in the perimeter now they start moving south towards this coconut grove when advanced element of the patrol reached the northwest edge of the coconut grove they received heavy machine gun fire rifle mortar hand grenade fire from their front and right flank so this is a bad scenario crossfire three members of the patrol were wounded it was estimated that about 50 enemy fighters were in the grove first lieutenant x assumed command and because the heavy fire ordered the patrol to return to the former beach at position c two the wounded men had been had to be assisted after their arrival so now they go back to this perimeter that they had after their arrival at sea the firing stopped and a temporary perimeter was organized so they they get back they regrouped they got two wounded lieutenant x finding the men too closely grouped ordered two sections to move forward further inland neither section moved as far as lieutenant x intended so he signaled them to move further so they’re in a perimeter lieutenant x says hey push out from the perimeter a little bit they don’t really move far enough so he gives them a signal to move further this signal was interpreted to mean that the sections were to return to the river via separate routes as had been discussed earlier when the patrol first reorganized at sea because both sections moved out leaving lieutenant x by himself with his 20 men so now we have complete we have three different sections out here three different elements out there and you do not want to split forces in the first place and you definitely want to split forces into three groups and you definitely don’t want to split forces into three groups and you got wounded and you’ve already been attacked by a 50 man enemy force this is crazy the comment the patrol must be directed regulated and controlled at all times patrol members must be familiar with all prescribed signals the leader may arrange for a few additional signals for special purposes in this instance in in this instance the loss of control can undoubtedly be attributed to the poor chain of command in the patrol organization to sudden change in command from lieutenant y to lieutenant x while the patrol is in contact with the enemy and to a failure to reach clear understanding of plans and signals you can see how these little compounding problems and if you look at your organization if you look at what you’re doing inside of your business what little what little mistakes are you making what little what little things are you compounding what problems do you have that can be compounding that can lead to disaster is it communication is it chain of command are you not mutually supporting each other do people not understand what the mission is you see this applies to everything that we do with any kind of team the trip back the platoon sergeant with his 13 men followed root m so basically they all start going back in different directions they crossed the river without incident and reported back to con so they get back this first group of 13 guys gets back to the to the command post the battalion command post second lieutenant y and his ten men made it wider circuit and they report back to the battalion an hour later without having contacted the enemy okay so we’re doing pretty good but first lieutenant x realized that the other two sections had gone he proceeded to the river to another route and he’s got the wounded guys one of the wounded died and route the body was carried the section reached one point on the river without difficulty but found the point of the river that they got the the river was 30 feet wide and the current was very swift and it would have been dangerous even for ex excellent swimmers an attempt to reach the original crossing site was unsuccessful because the enemy was in position because the enemy would they they tried to go back where they originally crossed that’s where they try and go back to and guess what the enemy is waiting for him there obviously they know how hard it is across the river they know the crossing points patrol should return from this is comment patrol should return from a mission over a different route to avoid ambush alternate crossing points could have been determined by reconnaissance before the combat patrol was sent out it appears that the enemy allowed the patrol to cross the river unopposed and plan to ambush it by closing in behind um so now lieutenant x goes back so they get they get fought away from the place where they originally crossed he sets up a perimeter anticipation of attack by the enemy a sergeant was then sent out with the mission of crossing the river and reporting to the battalion commander for help the next section is called the rescue meanwhile the battalion commander received a situation report from the leader of the section which returned acting upon this information the battalion commander had formed a group of 20 men and had proceeded to the vicinity of this island it’s another thing that screwed up and when you see it on the terrain where this element wants to cross over they’re going to cross the river but they’re going to cross onto like a little mini island where they’ll have to do another freaking crossing but they don’t know that because they haven’t done recon believing that this to be the balance of the patrol also so this group was preparing to cross the river to aid the remainder of the troll when they observed lieutenant y and his section crossing back and so now the battalion thinks oh okay they’re coming back now so we’re good so they all go back to they all go back to the battalion and then the battalion figures out the battalion commander figures out oh wait you didn’t even bring back all the guy all the guys so two groups have come back but there’s a third group out there and now the battalion commanders like trying to figure out what to do so he goes back out again and again this is the battalion commander this is a very senior guy going out to execute this rescue mission in order to evacuate and they link up in order to evacuate the wounded it was decided that a rope must be used several attempts by lieutenant x to cross the river with the rope were unsuccessful finally but the battalion commander and four others grasped hands and formed a human chain out into the water lieutenant x removed his clothes and tied the rope to his waist from a point upstream he plunged in the river and was successful in reaching the hand of one of the men in the human chain as he was carried downstream by the current as the men in the human chain with the aid of others on the bank were pulling lieutenant x and the rope ashore and any machine gun opened up from the northwest bank although the rope was eventually secured on the island one man had been killed and five wounded including the battalion commander the wounded were evacuated to the outpost where the battalion commander died within an hour comment although his bravery was commendable the inadvisability of a battalion commander participating in a patrol action is obvious subsequently back to the event subsequently the enemy subjected the island to heavy machine gun and mortar fire however the men on the island this is that little island of the river however the little island the men in the island stayed in position to cover the crossing of the remaining 17 men on the far bank one of the two wounded men with this group of the 17 was successfully evacuated but the other was swept away and drowned while trying to cross of the 15 men only of the 15 remaining men only eight succeeded in getting across the river before the japs closed in these men said they had been subjected to heavy mortar and grenade fire and it was believed that the others were killed so only eight of them make it it is believed that all of the uninjured men in the group could have crossed the river before the enemy closed in on them had they not chosen to stick it out in hopes of getting the wounded across so there you go these guys were brave they wanted to stay with their friends and they end up losing just about everybody because they’re trying to get these wounded guys across the comment the patrol crossed a difficult obstacle and moved rapidly deep into hostile territory where the enemy situation was obscure so start this whole this whole thing you start off by going into enemy territory and in order to get into enemy territory you’re going across a freaking river we better have a damn good plan we don’t know what the enemy situation is up there and how deep are we going to go like you know what you do in a situation like that aquaculture you put really good fire support on one side of the river and say all right guys you’re gonna go go across go ahead if something happens we got you we got mortars we got heavy machine guns that we’ll be able to get you back and by the way we’re gonna put a rope around the first guy so when you go across the river something happens we’re gonna pull you right back that’s covered move by the way and then you don’t go on a lengthy patrol without good support there was apparently very little reconnaissance on the part of the patrol and it was unaware of the enemy strength in the immediate vicinity the patrol was of sufficient strength to fight its way out against the superior number of enemy but when control was lost and the patrol was disorganized and split up it was susceptible to defeat in detail and just check this out if you were on patrol with me and you saw me give you a hand signal like to go out set up a push out a little bit further and you saw another hand signal with me from me there would be no part of your brain that would be thinking i would be telling you to split forces and go back to base no part of your brain would think that you would know that i would that i would want to stick together you would know that everyone would know that everyone on the team would think hey the only way we’re splitting forces if jocko comes over and looks at me and says hey we’re splitting forces here’s the new plan other than that we’re sticking together that’s like an implied commander’s intent from me always we are sticking together we will cover and move for each other for sure but we’re not gonna get separated where we can’t mutually support each other that’s not that’s not a good thing ever so what kind of implied intent do you have with your team in your organization that people know what to do and they won’t make mistakes like this so essentially are you saying like your example where that’s such a rigid rule that you have because and it’s a stat it would be established like established like that’s kind of the ether like like if if life heard me on the radio say like split for sure he wouldn’t be like hey jock would just told me to split force he black wait something something’s wrong yeah they can’t he wouldn’t make sense to him gotcha he’d be like okay hey jonko say again hey jocko i’m going to come and talk to you because if you’re you’ve never remotely said anything like hey let’s split up and see how we do right right let’s get to for me to say hey set up a good cover position cool all day long provide cover move to high ground any of those things but to say split forces it would be he would need to he would ask questions right and you’re saying that’s because there are certain things that are when you see you said implied right but there’s certain things that are just this is what we’re starting let me tell you what one of them is cover and move yeah if you get covered move is what i live by it’s a first law of combat right first of all combat is cover move if i’m telling you to go away from me we can’t cover and move anymore and lay fears that and go wait a second jocko doesn’t want me to cover and move that’s crazy something’s going on that i need to understand or it’s a miscommunication he’s not like oh cool later no it violates one of the principles of combat leadership and it’s not going to happen so what are those principles inside your organization do you have them established correctly that people know what to do and if a weird signal comes through they go wait a second what are you talking about this doesn’t make any sense you know like uh dave burke gets a request from a client yeah yeah you know and i say don’t give the client any support like he would be wait a second know something’s going on here yeah you know something’s not clear there’s a miscommunication because we’re here to support our clients we’re here to teach them leadership we’re to give them all the leadership tools that we can so and and dave knows that implicitly so if all of a sudden say don’t give them any support he’d be well wait a second i gotta go talk to talk about there’s something going on yeah kind of like if you lost your temper on somebody it would be like something would be confused it wouldn’t come yeah it wouldn’t compute right really you’d be like oh that must be like a demonstration or something you know check uh before we jump to this next section that section right there was the section that i kind of wanted to that that kind of caught me because it’s a very good debrief of a little you know you you know you read about big battles and we’ve covered many big battles and of course we get we get the gist of the battle or we get the experience of battle from one man’s vision but to get an after-action debrief like that and you can imagine how this is this is just one little tiny example one little tiny example and and that’s why when i when i started this thing off and i said you know why do i cover these because i never heard these lessons every freaking military leader should read that after action report where a bunch of guys get killed a bunch of guys get wounded and why does it happen it’s so clear why it happens they give you the reasons you have multiple chains of command you have guys splitting forces there’s unclear communication like you should know these things you should get taught these things and look what else you’re facing out there you got your enemy right what else you got uh the river the river oh that doesn’t sound like a big deal but people drowned yeah this is not this isn’t this ain’t like a little stream this is a river where people drowned yeah and yeah and that’s the kind of the assumption for us outsiders where you know we think of okay they got a you know they got this many guys on their side and we got this many guys but we got this and we got that like we have these tanks so we got you know it’s like kind of nuts against nuts kind of a thing but you consider no no there’s there’s like we need food we need to get across that river yeah they’re all this stuff that’s kind of like a jungle i mean just the jungle just getting through there yeah just what about our weapons or they’re getting you know sand in them they’re getting wet in them it’s raining yeah we’re our feet are rotting we’re starving by the way we need water we have dysentery like what is going on yes and by the way there’s a bunch of japanese suicidal fighters that want to kill us all yeah yeah remember saving private ryan right where they kind of you know they they uh they come up on the beach and you know everyone guys are jumping in the water whatever um and then couple guys they just drowned like it’s like you know when you you see that opening shot and you consider it in real life or whatever it’s kind of like okay what are we about to get into this is going to be scary machine guns um you know freaking germans bombs all this stuff right but then oh wait a second what about the actual water we have to go through like that’s going to kill some of us and imagine this you go and you make a movie and you actually go into the horror and panic of each individual that jumps into the water with 64 pounds of gear they’re not a great swimmer they go to the bottom panicking fighting and drowning and dying a horrible death and that’s happening all over the place on that day and then meanwhile if you survive if you somehow get your [ __ ] together and get your gear off and now you get to the beach you’re getting freaking s strafed by enemy elevated bunkered machine gun positions [Music] check last section of volume seven is called opncp security observation post and command post security this is such a good start it says even at this late date needless casualties delays and expenditures of effort are being caused by breaches of open security rules so what he’s saying is like look we’ve been fighting this war for three and a half four years and even right now we have to explain what to do how to maintain security because we’re taking unnecessary casualties because people aren’t following the proper protocols the inevitable results of of security carelessness are poignantly illustrated by three following incidents carelessness cost lives costs lives reported by technician 5th grade ernest j langey 135th infantry we stayed in one cp for two weeks without drawing a shell and it felt quite secure for we had been told that the enemy hadn’t been shelling in that particular vicinity for the past 30 days however a few of the men either forgot or disregarded their instructions they washed some white towels and shirts and hung them out to dry an effective signal for the enemy artillery fire upon our command post three of our men were killed in the shelling that followed this breach of security learning security the hard way reported by an infantry battalion commander after being shelled out of two cp locations the first time with severe casualties we reorganized a sadly depleted cp group and open for business in another building a third-story battalion op in the same building could be reached only by passing a large open window on a stair landing since the entire village was under enemy observation and direct fire it was necessary to crawl past this open window to ensure that this would be done a sentry was stationed in the stairway so there’s a window you have to crawl when you go by this window and it’s so important that they put a guy sitting by the window going hey freaking crawl buddy hey you crawl all went well until it was discovered that the sergeant major had just covered the opening with a large sheet of tin so that the sentry could be released for work with the wire team so he needs the sentry to go do something else so he says hey just put this piece of tin up against the window this might seem like a weird question or maybe uh what’s a century guard guard yep a guard as opposed to like you could it’s literally a guard okay is that like a rank like a position or someone like hey you’re gonna be a guard tonight so now you’re century tonight like that you could you could use the word guard and sentry same word okay synonym yeah century might have a little bit more tone of military century as opposed to a guard of a prison so a sentries more like someone that’s standing watch gotcha uh so what if you guys are out on a mission and it’s like a two-day mission whatever and then it’s like okay someone’s got to stand watch and it’s jocko and you’re a navy seal straight up are you the century for that night kind of thing we would use the term watch like hey i got watch as opposed to saying hey you’re on sentry duty in the in the navy you generally call it just watch so even hey who’s got like in the barracks i’ll be like who’s got fire watch or you have watch because you stand in watch sections on the ship but technically you’re a century but you’re well like i said it’s it’s leaning towards well we would call sentry duty even in this in the navy century duty we’d probably just call it watch but in other outfits probably armenian yeah but same same duty though yep okay so and you could put obviously this century was all he was doing was telling people what to hey get down when you go across that window right so he wasn’t actually protecting the perimeter he was protecting the troops from doing something stupid yeah but he was a guard in a specific capacity so there you go ninth century got it so they put this big tin sheet up we abandoned the cp in haste and moved to an already established alternate cp the only remaining location in town the last man had hardly left the building before it was taken under direct artillery fire and rapidly disintegrated this incident thoroughly impressed our personnel with the folly of signaling op and cp locations to the enemy by altering the outward appearance of the building after occupancy that particular error was not repeated they just got lucky that they i bet someone was like wait sergeant major what’d you do you put a piece of tent up dude we got to get out of here you’re an idiot yeah sergeant major with all due respect you’re an idiot and now the enemy knows we’re here and we got to get out of here and the last the last [Music] section here one mistake is too many reported by the commanding general first infantry division officers this one is so important officers visiting the front line units should be warned against actions that might reveal to the enemy the locations of our installations in one case an observation post was located in a wrecked building inside walls of the rooms had been camouflaged to give a dark background instruments had been set well back in the rooms and observers were careful to move about only in the shadows all went well until the day some visiting officers stopped by they moved about freely even leaning out of the windows in their with their field glasses within a half an hour the building was completely destroyed by enemy fire one of our observers was killed that’s the situation when you roll down to the front lines and you think you’re just going to be cool yeah and in my mind i’m thinking i’m not even thinking that they were being stupid because they might just be being stupid but they might also be like hey i’m cool i’m not going to hide i’m not going to walk around i’m not going to i’m not going to hide in the shadows uh late’s got a funny story about going to the government center for the first time in downtown ramadi and they like pull in the humvees and they see marines sprinting from one location to another and they’re like oh and they so they just did what they were doing and like everything cool they’re like yeah there’s snipers around here you’ve gotta move it and they’re like roger that um but that that wraps up this this particular volume volume seven and you you know that last little section it’s these moments it’s these little moments where we slack off when we get complacent just for a minute just for a minute and that’s when we get crushed we can’t let that happen we need to always stay on the path speaking of the path echo charles yes sir dang that’s world record podcast speed it was good this book had had some sections that i didn’t cover um because look i find leadership lessons everywhere but when we’re talking about using cable footbridge to cross rivers like i found a little bit of it was really a stretch okay it was really a stretch i kept it to the leadership principles it’s good so there we go all right how do we uh how do we stay on the path well part of this when you know when we hear these accounts and go over these field manuals and learn these lessons from the past from books whatever it is important to even just remember to pay attention to the lessons because you can get caught up in the story man for sure like i was kind of concerned about those guys with the guys human bridge link chain whatever i was concerned you know but there’s a lesson that if you don’t pay attention you might miss it so that’s important too so yes we’re staying capable for sure we’re reading you know listening all that stuff we are we’re reading i know i’m reading i’m not sure how much reading you’re doing right now read either way we’re staying physically capable as well we’re working with us on that one we’re training i’ll tell you that nonetheless we got to keep ourselves healthy and capable all right that’s important i think concur so yes so when you’re on this path you might need some supplementation it helps oh it definitely helps yeah big time keep your immunity up keep your functionality up keep your strength up keep your endurance up keep your cognitive attitude up up yeah big time let it go down see that’s no good for nobody you got people depending on you including yourself so you know mostly yourself mostly yourself it’s your drill could be others i guess we can’t have anyone relying on us if we can’t rely on ourselves that’s what i’m saying that’s what i’m trying to say what if you’re at a capability two scenarios one you’re at a capability health level ten and then the other scenario you’re at a health capability capability level five you got let’s say two kids depending on you you got let’s say maybe an employee depending on you maybe has i don’t know some someone else depending on you you want to be level five you want to be level 10 let’s face it that’s not even a really good question it’s so obvious the answer right but that’s but that’s not the point that i’m making the point i’m making is some of us we’re just like i’m fine with my number five you’re not doing nobody no favors by being at number five no at level 10 you are doing a lot of people some and there’s a weird thing here some people would rather let let themselves down than let other people down some people would rather they don’t care about someone else but they would not want to let themselves down either one of those let’s not let anyone down let’s get that level 10 and keep it this is what i’m saying slipping off the path and not getting back onto the path is doing no good for nobody mm-hmm and you’ve got people depending on you you gotta you gotta do the right thing that’s what i’m saying yeah let’s do it all right that’s what you have supplementation as far as supplementation goes jacquard supplementation jackal fuels called jaco fuel jacques com if you want to get it yep very reliable very high quality stuff this will keep you on the path this will help you straight up so the first thing we will go into is discipline and discipline go supplementation for your brain and body here’s the thing the days of poison energy drinks which is the thing i get it oh it’s good energy you know this thing but you got other bad stuff in there the days of drinking neck and stuff are gone no not no need nope not anymore it’s a big deal now if they when you drink an energy drink now yeah it’s good for you it’s kind of like what moke did to desserts right that’s exactly what happened what did the desserts is what discipline go does to energy drinks because let’s face it you kind of like the taste of an energy drink you kind of like the fact that it gets you a little amped what you don’t like is you crash what you don’t like is it’s bad for you what you don’t like is it you get the freaking jitters yeah well and what you don’t like is you’re giving yourself type 2 diabetes which also sucks suck for sure so there’s no reason for any of that no that’s kind of like dessert you you feel like crap after you eat a big whatever freaking horrible dessert filled with sugar yeah you just have monk yeah easy money yeah you you pay an additional cost for drinking an energy drink in a traditional sense you want to hear a non-traditional use of milk that i’ve been doing lately so i used to go to this restaurant and they did this thing called dessert shots have you ever heard of this concept it’s just a really small dessert yeah but it’s kind of cool because let’s face it you get done with a piece of big prime rib and a caesar salad and you’re kind of stoked but then you think i kind of want something sweet too but i don’t want to get a vegan you know whatever big giant dessert so i’m just going to get myself a little little uh sunday shot at this particular restaurant i used to go to back in the day which is closed now unfortunately because it was a damn good restaurant me my wife used to go there and stoner would come like he would just show up third wheel just come and get it and hang out all the time like every time but lately i’ve been doing like i’m like the same thing but i’ve just been doing shots of just maybe a little bit bigger than a shot but just enough where you’re like yeah you know what yeah that would work i think now i’ll just keep a mulk mixed up in the fridge oh yeah and just pour a little shot and just get a little hitter mix in some like dark chocolate chunks let me get to like this we haven’t done that yet yeah you put that in the shot so you like hit it and you can chomp up the dark chocolate dual hitter nice i’m telling cause those gourmet those dessert shots or whatever yeah i heard that you can get a little tray of them or whatever and it’s like yeah one’s like a little cup brownie or something they’re just small right you say you’re saying so yeah you want to spice it up make it more like gourmet and lavish put some dark chocolate yeah i’m here to have lavish i’m here to help also don’t worry about the days of worrying about your joints just acting up those days are gone too they are yeah i’m telling you stay on this thing the we got joint warfare mixed with the super krill oil don’t gotta worry about that anymore yeah those days are gone too good to go good to go also vitamin d3 keep your immunity up which is an important thing maybe you don’t think about it every single day but when you start to get sick a little scratchy throat whatever however you get sick you’re gonna be you’re gonna notice it and you’re gonna wish you had the vitamin d3 so you know don’t forget about that kind of stuff it’s important too yeah yeah what what else no i was getting everything back into my true protein in the sense or in the replacement of a dessert in the form of a dessert yeah let’s face it it’s real good uh you can get you can get the drink at wawa if you’re on the east coast which is you all been crushing it and going clearing the shelves keep clearing them let them know what’s up let them see what’s up we’re going to florida we’re in florida actually when this comes out we’re in florida we’re hitting wawa’s date you know also all the stuff you can get at a vitamin shop also if you want to get it delivered to your house that’s going to cost a lot of money right delivery no actually it’s not going to cost any money it’s going to be free if you subscribe to any of these items so you get your super grill every month you get your your joint warfare every month you get your monk every month so you don’t run out and go back in time to a tool to a horrible scenario where you wake up achy don’t let that happen subscribe free shipping jackalful com get some also at origin usa this is where you can get american-made goods products i never like love the word products because it’s so like not we’re screwed pete uses oh yeah pete pete hard goods right durable durable goods that’s right durable goods oh yeah well they are durable they are face it so we got an american denim boots jeans uh jiu-jitsu now we’re starting to go into the fashion stuff because durable goods is like boots pants i don’t think we’re doing fashion anything well i know you’d like to think that but you know pete and i will have something different to say about that nonetheless it’s good stuff originusa com all made in america from the beginnings of the makings of the fabric all the way till to the durable goods fashionable or not that arrive it’s all made in america that’s what i’m saying also choco has a store it’s called jocko store and this is where you can get durable t-shirts with discipline equals freedom and there’s a guy i’m like running and there’s a guy sees me and he’s running running at each other and he’s wearing a uh nate diaz sweatshirt representing just you know it it just says represent but i know i know what that means that’s nate diaz and he sees me and he reaches down like grabs the bottom of the nate diaz sweatshirt represent he pulls up the shirt and he’s representing while on the path discipline equals freedom t-shirt freaking legit oh yeah so i was like thinking that’s freaking that’s like a double double bonus scenario not only is this dude down with nate diaz which is fully approved dude he’s also down with the cause which kind of tells me we’re aligned with the whole like that tells me we’re aligned like we we got people you know like where it is aligned that is good and uh and what did you say anything to him or he just gave him the bonus no no i gave him a little bit more than that i was like hey you hugged him i didn’t hug him because we were running but i you know held up my fist and we kind of like high-fived as we passed each other yeah freaking legit what’s interesting is like that’s the feeling you get whether you’re running or not you see somebody representing in the wild well wild let’s face it that’s it that’s the feeling you get so if you want to represent in the wild if you want to represent yeah you can uh again draculastore com yeah we got discipline equals freedom we got good we got hats we got hoodies we got rash guards on there we have a subscription situation free shipping on this one too by the way a little bit different kind of designs more interesting here’s the thing wait t-shirt designs yeah it’s called the shirt locker yeah you like the name i like the name too here’s the thing about the shirt locker for peep because people people are saying hey like can i get that one design that was like two months ago it’s a good design for sure we can’t that was like if you have the membership you’ll get the design for that month and then it’s sort of gone so i’m just saying hey i know i know you want the past one but hey the future one’s gonna be good too so don’t get yourself in a situation where you’re emailing or on twitter or whatever saying hey can i get that design just sign up now you’ll get that design cool check i like where you’re at uh subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t yet also check out jocko unraveling podcast with daryl cooper dc dropping knowledge grounded podcast i talked to dean about getting some of those back online warrior kid podcast as well you can also join us in the underground at the underground on the underground jocko underground com it’s an alternative podcast we’ve been talking about a bunch of wild things on there things that are not quite jocko podcast material but they’re adjacent material amplifying material we’ve talked about a bunch of psychology we talk about group dynamics we do talk about leadership we talk about and we and we’ve been doing q a on there as well so the reason we have that is because we don’t know what’s going to happen with all these platforms that we’re on and we did get we did get some is it called censorship we didn’t get fully censored but we got some some warnings on one of the last podcasts that we did about the armenian genocide so who knows we can’t i know i do know you know who knows i know i know that we can’t leave ourselves at the whim of someone having control over what we do so we created another platform it’s jockowunderground com and if you want to help us build and maintain that platform it’s eight dollars and eighteen cents a month there’s some layers behind that but if you wanna help us out then do that and you can get this other podcast called jocko underground you can ask questions and that also prevents us from having to interject advertisements about pillows and um what else yeah things that you don’t want to hear about probably not yeah when you press play for jackal podcast you know what you’re going to get and you’re going to get it fast so hey check it out jock warner hey look look if you can’t afford that we’re we’re here we’re not trying to make like this uh we’re not trying to leave people out we don’t want if you’re out there with a freaking nate diaz t-shirt a sweatshirt and a and uh disciplinable freedom t-shirt under your nate diaz sweatshirt and you can’t afford this we’re good we got you covered email assistance at jockowunderground com we’ll get you taken care of we also have a youtube channel which i am the assistant director on many of these really good videos and then echo makes some other ones too which are marginal yeah origin usa has one to check out too we’ve got some cool stuff on there check out those youtube channels it’s true also psychological warfare then album will track some chocolate getting us three more moments of weakness seems repetitive when i say it but it doesn’t it kind of like undervalues really what it is i’m telling you so some people listen to music when they work out some listen listen to podcasts good all good moves but if on those days let’s face it they do come from time to time we’re like man i really don’t feel like doing this put in this put in the psychological warfare you’ll be in you’ll be in the game 100 results on that one by the way i just had to go statistical on you right now with statistical 100 flipsidecanvas com my brother dakota meyer making freaking awesome stuff to hang on your wall that will also keep you on the path i written a bunch of books final spin i don’t know if i’m gonna win this argument with my publisher but i’m trying to get where it says first edition i’m trying to get it to say first a dish and i don’t know there’s there’s legal requirements about that page you know it’s like copyright stuff so i don’t know if i’m gonna be able to get away with it but we’re gonna try at a minimum it’s gonna say first edition it might even say first a dish uh i’ve just finished the what they call first pass edits and you’re just going through making sure that you know making sure that the edits are proper make sure that’s all good to go and how many edits do you go i mean how many sorry passes four it’s ridiculous but here’s the cool thing that book i’m reading it and i’m freaking loving reading i’m like and i get the same thing i used to have this with way the warrior kid when i’m reading it and i kind of forget that i wrote it because it’s fiction so i didn’t live it where you know when i’m reading extreme ownership or leadership strategy and tactics it’s very much me yeah right this is it’s me that wrote it but you’re kind of it’s a story right that’s in my head that’s almost a different part of my brain now look it’s obvious i think it’s real obvious that it’s me that wrote it you know i was on lex for you know lex friedman yeah i just did a podcast with him and he said that i speak like russian language like so however the russian language is yeah which you can kind of guess when you hear a russian person speak english you know send location like that kind of thing he says that i speak english as if i’m a russian human so that book is definitely written in a very let’s say lean lean methodology uh but i’m stoked it’s coming out if you want to get that first to dish order it pre-order it of course the the publisher you know they don’t understand they’re not they’re they’re not gonna print enough and then there’s going to be people that get second a dish brutal and then when you when i sign the second edition i’m i’m gonna do it right i’m gonna do it good that’s good but let’s face it i might not even say anything but you’re gonna know and i’m going to know yeah you’re going to know what i’m going to know and it’s it’s going to be uncomfortable we’re not going to like it but when you it’s sort of like when you got that first to dish like let’s face it we kind of have a connection [Music] so check it out the book is called final spin you can pre-order it right now leadership strategy and tactics field manual the code evaluation protocol displays freedom field manual wayne the warrior kid one two three and four mikey and the dragons about faced by hackworth extreme ownership dichotomy of leadership the ogs echelon fronts my leadership consultancy go to ashlandfront com if you want us to bring these leadership principles into your organization hit us up that’s what we do ef online which isn’t revamped we’ve just released some new courses you can take a course about each chapter of extreme ownership we get granular on those and we’re on there live all the time well not all the time but multiple times a week you can ask me whatever question you want go to efonline com the muster we are executing orlando completed completed next up is phoenix august 17th and 18th then las vegas october 28th and 29th it’s on it’s on it’s on um can i declare cove it over i guess i don’t have the power to do that but i can say that i’ve been doing live events i can say that people are vaccinated or whatever and we seem to be rapidly approaching the way things used to be and i’m on board for that ef battlefield i’ll let you know the next time that goes down and if you want to help service members active and retire their families gold star families check out mark lee’s mom mama lee she’s got an awesome charity organization and one of the primary things that she does is she gets medical treatments for service members most of them seals one of the big things she does is is get people these awesome treatments in pure oxygen hyperbaric chambers they do like month-long treatments pay for the whole thing put people up in hotels so they can get it done it’s been hugely helpful to all kinds of people so if you want to help with that she does a bunch of other things too that’s just the tip of the iceberg america’s mightywarriors org and if you want more of my historical harangues or you need more of echo’s bewildering babble and you got some today [Laughter] that opener that opener was you know that opener question what the extreme ownership is bewildering okay we’ll say we’ll say well if you want more of that you can find us on the interwebs on twitter on the gram and on facebook that goes adequate charles and i am at jungle william thanks to everyone out there in uniform around the world right now putting all these lessons learned to use to protect our freedom and the same goes to the people here on the home front our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics emts dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all first responders thank you for your sacrifices to protect us here at home and to everyone else out there remember that the first function of leadership is discipline and that discipline starts with yourself it is us we have to train we have to prepare we have to harden ourselves through suffering and while it hurts and it does hurt it is that discipline that will ultimately bring us freedom so go out there and get after it and until next time this is echo and jocko out